July 1, 2024 • 61 mins
Join pastors Luke and Cameron on the Uncut Podcast as they discuss managing ministry challenges like preaching multiple services on Sundays, self-care, and sermon preparation. They emphasize the importance of balancing personal well-being with pastoral duties and the dedication needed to deliver impactful messages faithfully.
- (00:05) - Welcome to the Uncut Podcast
- (01:39) - Ministry Load and Personal Balance
- (06:47) - Feeling Tired and Managing Energy
- (09:39) - Balancing Conversations After Services
- (12:21) - The Debate on Church Green Rooms
- (19:57) - Sermon Series: Asking for a Friend
- (22:39) - Preaching on Angels, Demons, and Satan
- (24:45) - Choosing Sermon Topics: Politics Ahead
- (28:28) - Expositional Preaching vs. Topical Preaching
- (30:29) - Ministry Topics and Approaches
- (30:58) - Teaching on Contemporary Sexual Issues
- (31:41) - Researching Topical vs. Expositional Sermons
- (39:28) - Seeking Biblical Guidance on Topics
- (40:55) - Balancing Topical and Expositional Preaching
- (43:46) - Filtering Research for Sermon Preparation
- (49:49) - Learning from Other Preachers on the Same Text
- (52:37) - Commitment to Intensive Study for Sermon Preparation
- (56:43) - Seeking Confirmation and Diverse Perspectives
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Luke (00:06):
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke.
Cameron (00:09):
I am pastor Cameron.
Luke (00:10):
And this is the uncut podcast where we have honest and
uncut conversations about faith,life, ministry. Welcome back,
Cameron. Welcome back, Luke. Wehave been gone for Where have
you been, Luke? Where have Ibeen?
Where have I not been is thebetter question.
Cameron (00:27):
It really is true.
Luke (00:28):
Which we could simply answer by saying we've not been
in this room.
Cameron (00:32):
Yes. We've been everywhere else.
Luke (00:34):
We've been everywhere else.
Cameron (00:35):
We have not stopped doing ministry. We have not
stopped leading the church orour families. But sometimes,
something's gotta give Yep.Someplace. And for us, that
someplace was the podcast for afew weeks.
Mhmm. That's okay. Yeah. I'mokay with it.
Luke (00:57):
Yeah. It was definitely it wasn't like planned. It was just
like a series of, like,personal, family, professional,
like
Cameron (01:06):
Lemony Snicket's series of unfortunate events. Very
much.
Luke (01:11):
It's just, like, we were we connect on a Monday, and
we're like, are we gonna be ableto record this week? And we're
like, well, we could have doneit 20 minutes ago, but that was
the only window we had orsomething like that.
Cameron (01:23):
Right. Right. So we did our best. We did our best to,
you know, just keep thingsmoving on the ministry front and
Luke (01:35):
Yep.
Cameron (01:36):
Had some good things happen lately and
Luke (01:38):
Mhmm.
Cameron (01:39):
Some good movement forward. And, I'm curious, we
haven't really had thisconversation off camera, so we
can have it maybe on camera k.Is to how you are, like, how are
you feeling about, like, theministry load and, like, the
(02:00):
personal load
Luke (02:01):
Mhmm.
Cameron (02:02):
Of 2 services?
Luke (02:06):
Yeah. It's like if you aren't used to doing 2 services
back to back. Mhmm. And then wedon't have, like we don't have a
ton of lead time between our 2services. So by the time first
(02:29):
service is over at not at 10starts at 9, ends at 10 Mhmm.
20, 10:30. Our next servicestarts in a half hour, 40
minutes. And then we are not,you know, free of obligation in
between that time either. Sowe've got, like, our next
(02:51):
little, which is not a bigthing. You
Cameron (02:53):
know, we're gonna
Luke (02:54):
be at our huddle at, like, 10:35. So, I think the other
week, I realized that if you'rethe person who's preaching, how
much time you just end upspending on your feet. Yep. And
I was like, I need betterinserts in my shoes. Mhmm.
If I'm kinda I really like thoselook of those shoes, but they
(03:17):
were not as comfortable as Ithink they need to be if I'm
gonna be standing pretty muchthe entire time. Mhmm. I think I
don't know. It's it's not likeit's not that it's causing much
more work outside of Sunday.Like, I don't I don't it's not
(03:40):
really like, it's not that,like, my week is suddenly
ballooned because of that.
I
Cameron (03:47):
do feel like that maybe there's a sliver more mental
work
Luke (03:52):
Mhmm.
Cameron (03:53):
To to make sure logistics for the morning are
worked out, but that a lot ofthat doesn't fall on you and I.
No. A lot of that is Yeah. Otherstaff. Yeah.
But but you're right. Like, inthe preparation for the week, it
doesn't change it.
Luke (04:07):
So it's it's really just that, like, preaching it twice.
And what was it that IIII don'tknow. I preached something. It
It was 1 of the sermons I gaveor even just the the sermon I
did 2 weeks 2 weeks ago now?
Cameron (04:24):
On Doubt? On Doubt Mhmm.
Luke (04:26):
Was just like a heavy Sunday personally, and then to
preach kind of, not theweightiest sermon, but like it,
you know, it can really kind ofsomething that weighs heavy on
people. And I was just like,okay. Here we go. Like, charge
up that hill, like, again. So itwas kind of feel like, feeling a
(04:46):
little bit of out of emotionalbreath and then having to turn
around and do it again.
But I don't know that I'm youknow, so it is more I think it's
more emotional and mental workthe day of. But I don't know
that it's like I'm like, oh, mygosh, that's unsustainable. I
(05:08):
think it's at a place where I'mlike, I just kind of got to get
used to this a little bit, findmy rhythm of like, how much do I
tweak and change my sermonbetween, between services. Mhmm.
Because, you know, I'll kind of,like and how much is even
(05:30):
reasonable, you know, and howmuch is, like, intentional and
unintentional on that.
And so, yeah, it's I think it'sokay. I think it's it feels it's
felt like a a lot the lastcouple of times, but it's not
the I have confidence that,someone described it to me as,
(05:51):
like, when you're new toplaying, like, a sport or a
game, like, everything feelslike it's just going so fast,
because you're, like, trying toprocess all the information at
all at once. And as you kind ofget into it, the game slows down
and you start to process it. Andso I feel like this is 1 of
those scenarios where I'm like,it feels like there's just a
(06:12):
lot, but I think the more I'm init, the more we're in it. It'll
kind of slow down and it won'tfeel quite so big on a Sunday
afternoon once we're done.
Cameron (06:21):
Yeah. I mean, there is just still a newness to it that
is well, we've been doing it forwhen did we start it? Beginning
of May?
Luke (06:35):
Beginning of May. 1st week in May.
Cameron (06:37):
Yeah. So we're just, like, 2 months into it. Yeah.
Not even yet. So there is stilla newness to it Mhmm.
That
Luke (06:43):
But what about you? You've had more reps on preaching
through it so far. I've preacheda handful of times with this new
service structure, but you'vedone the majority so far.
Cameron (06:53):
I'm definitely more tired at the end of the day.
Mhmm. I have like, I've nottried to, like, manage my energy
Luke (07:10):
Mhmm.
Cameron (07:11):
In the first service so that I have something left for
the second. Right. I just don'tI didn't feel like that was
necessary or anything like that.I just, you know, just send it
and Yep. It'd be fine.
I have recognized that some bitof, like, self care in between
(07:32):
services is definitely necessaryfor me. Yeah. I need to get a
loan even if it's just for,like, 2 or 3 minutes
Luke (07:40):
Mhmm.
Cameron (07:41):
In between services. It's helpful for me to eat
something. Yep. I'm almostalways really hungry even if I
eat a big breakfast in themorning Yep. You know, before I
come in for first service.
So there is a little bit morefatigue, and I feel like a
(08:02):
little bit more a greaternecessity to, like, check-in
with myself physically,mentally, emotionally, and
spiritually in between sermons.Yeah. But all in all, I I feel
like, you know, it's been apositive experience, and I don't
(08:24):
feel I don't feel particularlylike it was a bad decision or
that there was a, like, a areally big blind spot that we
had that is glaring
Luke (08:37):
No.
Cameron (08:37):
At us now. So all in all, like, I think
Luke (08:47):
that's good. That food thing, though, is real.
Cameron (08:49):
It is real.
Luke (08:50):
I'm like, I sometimes sometimes it was kind of a
toss-up as to whether or not Iused to eat on Sundays because
sometimes I don't like to eatbefore I, like, preach. Mhmm.
Just kind of like, I just feelmore comfortable on an empty
stomach for some reason. Mhmm.But I cannot do that with 2
services because I'm like, I'mready.
Cameron (09:08):
Because it's 1 o'clock then.
Luke (09:10):
Yeah. And then I And you haven't eaten. And I'm just
like, right. Yeah. I'mdefinitely not feeling holy at
that point.
I think the other thing I wasthinking about was, I think
somebody came up to me to have aconversation with me after 1 of
the services this last Sunday.And I was sitting here and I was
thinking, what did we talkabout? I just couldn't remember
(09:34):
that whole conversation. Or ifwe'd had that conversation, I
was like, did we actually chat?I don't remember.
And, like, I'm thinking that Imight have to and I don't know
that this is new to having 2services, but it might be made
worse by having 2 services. I'mlike, I think I'm gonna have to
come up with, like, a method of,like, if someone like is coming
(09:56):
up to talk to me about somethingthat's gonna require follow-up
or action outside of Sundayservice, I'm gonna have to start
saying, can you email me?
Cameron (10:06):
That's what I do.
Luke (10:07):
Or something. Because like, if someone comes up to me,
says something to me, it is justgonna go straight out of my
brain.
Cameron (10:13):
I tell people when they come up to me, Sunday morning
and they're and we're talkingabout something important
Luke (10:19):
Mhmm.
Cameron (10:20):
In in particular, something important that I need
to remember
Luke (10:24):
Right.
Cameron (10:24):
I've just gotten in the habit of being honest with them,
saying, like, Sunday morningsare a little bit, in some ways,
a a blur to me Mhmm. When I tryto sort out the details at the
end of the day. Yep. And so thisbut this conversation is really
important to me Mhmm. And Idon't want to drop this ball.
Could you please text me?
Luke (10:44):
Mhmm.
Cameron (10:45):
Because some sometimes even in in emails, things get
lost. Right?
Luke (10:48):
That's true.
Cameron (10:49):
But they don't typically on the phone. Right?
Could you please text me andremind me? Even text me right
now.
Luke (10:57):
Yeah. Right. Just so that there's a note
Cameron (10:59):
So then I have the notification. I won't take the
notification off, and then I'll,like, I'm I'm able to deal with
it. And and I will get back tothis, like, tomorrow or Tuesday
or something like that. Yeah.Because that's been, like, I I
don't want to I really don'twanna drop the ball on someone
or with the situation.
Yeah. And it's never, like it'sit's almost never intentional
(11:24):
to, like, not deal withsomething I haven't seen that.
Yeah. Like that. So, yeah, I getin the I've gotten in the habit
of just telling them flat outright from the beginning, hey.
Could you please you know, afterwe're done with this
conversation, please text meabout this. Right.
Luke (11:38):
Because I
Cameron (11:39):
don't wanna forget it. Yep. And, that's been helpful.
Luke (11:42):
Yeah. I'm gonna have to start doing that, I think,
because Sundays, I'm like, are alittle bit of a blur. Yeah. So
because you end up especiallynow that you have 2 services and
you have people coming up andtalking to you before and after
both of those services Yeah. Youcan kind of there's, like, 4
moments or 4 sections of timeMhmm.
Where you could be having peopleinteractions and, like, it could
(12:05):
get a little bit blurry for me.
Cameron (12:07):
This is why I think it's important to be able to
have a little bit of perspectivebefore you comment on things
like I'm thinking of theconversation I've seen online a
few times about, like, pastorsor worship teams having green
(12:28):
rooms. Mhmm. Yeah. And whetheror not that is like a
Luke (12:33):
Wholly a good a good thing or a bad thing.
Cameron (12:36):
Appropriate thing. Yeah. You know, whatever.
Luke (12:38):
Right.
Cameron (12:39):
And, I go I waffle on it a little bit.
Luke (12:43):
Mhmm.
Cameron (12:43):
At my heart, I I feel like and maybe that this is a
maybe we can just chalk this upto being as a personal value.
Mhmm. At my heart, I never wantto be so busy on a Sunday
morning that I need to Mhmm.Spend my time in the green room.
(13:04):
Right.
And if you're not familiar witha green room, it's kind of like
a what would you call it? Like aIt's a well, it's a staging area
Luke (13:11):
for people. It's well, the the the the 1 of the unhelpful
things about it is that I thinkthe terminology is borrowed
straight from the theater Yeah.And performance sector. Yeah. So
the green room in any theater orstage or concert venue place is
a place where the quote unquotetalent go to, like, before,
(13:33):
after the show, in between whenthey're not in stage, has
drinks, snacks, refreshments.
It's a place where they cankinda be and not be on stage or
not be, you know, you know,having people coming up and
Yeah. Wanting and needing thingsfrom them. It's kind of a
private it's the private placethat they can go backstage.
Yeah. Right.
So churches have adopted havinggreen rooms.
Cameron (13:56):
Some churches.
Luke (13:57):
Some churches. Particularly, usually larger
churches that have multi Sundayservice experiences that are
like you know, and they've got,you know, big worship teams and
Yep. And stuff like that. And sothey just have a they have a
room, and they just I don't knowif they act I don't know where
the term green came from. Like,it's actually supposed to be
(14:18):
painted green or not.
But and so churches have startedusing that as, like, a space for
Worship teams. Worship
Cameron (14:27):
teams, pastors. Stuff like that.
Luke (14:29):
All that to kinda have a Yeah. Place to go backstage,
particularly when you're doingmulti services. Yeah. It really
doesn't make a whole lot. Itmakes pretty much no sense in my
mind when you have 1 service.
Cameron (14:40):
No. No. But yeah. Like, so I I had always felt like that
was not the way that I wanted topastor. Mhmm.
I wanna be with with my people.
Luke (14:52):
Yep.
Cameron (14:55):
I I think it's hard to make the argument that that's
not important. Yep. But I amalso I also recognize that if
you preach 2, 3, 4, 5, sometimestimes in a day or in a weekend
Mhmm. That your your ability tomeaningfully connect with people
(15:18):
actually diminishes if you wereto be with out in the
congregation Yeah. All 5 ofthose services before and after
Luke (15:27):
the Gosh. We would I would need a room if we did 3
services.
Cameron (15:30):
The Internet the interactions become more shallow
because you're more, like, zonedout, tired. You've Mhmm. Heard.
You know, like, you've been, youknow, in ministry to people and
with people and hear my heart.That's what I'm called to.
Luke (15:46):
Mhmm. That's
Cameron (15:46):
what I love. That's what I wanna do. Yep. There's
there's a comes a point at thethere comes a point in the day
where I'm like, I don't know ifI can do I don't know if I can
do even 1 more conversation. Andso, like, it, so I I have come
(16:10):
to value, not value, understand.
I've come to understand
Luke (16:15):
Yeah.
Cameron (16:15):
Churches that do have those. And, and, like, even,
like, when I said my need tojust get away for, like, 3
minutes of
Luke (16:26):
Mhmm.
Cameron (16:27):
Alone Yep. And grab a quick snack, granola bar, sip of
coffee, whatever. I kinda Iunderstand. And I guess if I
were, like, to be forced into,like, say, you know, a church
goes to 3 services, and then youreally do need that time in
(16:49):
between. Then what do you do?
But I would think that if yourchurch was big enough to go to 3
services
Luke (16:58):
Mhmm.
Cameron (16:59):
Or more, you're gonna have multiple pastors on staff
Luke (17:04):
Mhmm.
Cameron (17:05):
And that, you know, the those who are not in the role,
like, in a preaching role
Luke (17:10):
teaching
Cameron (17:11):
or doing it. Or leading or something like that Right. To
be with the people to make surethat they're being shepherded
well Right. And empatheticpresence Mhmm. For them for that
for that particular week.
So, I mean
Luke (17:26):
Yeah. Well, it reminds me when I was a student, I was at
like a conference and big namespeaker came in to talk. And I
remember being up, like, in thestudent section and we're
worshiping. And I just rememberseeing that speaker and they
just were like it's like,they're just not singing along
(17:48):
to the worship music. Like,they're just kind of, like,
they're either looking at theirnotes or they're just kind of
standing there, kind of flat,little expressionless.
And I just remember kind ofhaving a lot of judgment on
that. And it wasn't until Istarted, like, teaching
regularly that, like, I realizedhow much of a strain on my voice
(18:09):
sometimes teaching can be. Yep.And if you've got even just a
little bit, like, of, like,you're getting over a cold or
something, I was just like and Iremember thinking back and I'm
like, no. Like, there's beenSundays where I'm like, I can't
sing today because if I sing, Iwill lose all of my voice Mhmm.
(18:32):
And I won't have anything tophysically give of my voice when
I get up there. Mhmm. And soit's just small things like that
are really hard to really kindof take measure of and stock of
until you're in it. Yeah. Youknow, I think the biggest thing
(18:56):
when it comes to like thechurches having green rooms
thing is that like, you know, isis it being managed in such a
way that's creating this, like,celebrity culture.
Right. And, you know, inbecause, like, can there is
(19:20):
there maybe a purpose for that?Like, if you've got, like, say,
a worship team that's, like,doing 3 services.
Cameron (19:27):
Right.
Luke (19:28):
Are they expected to sit in on the pastor's sermon 3
times and like
Cameron (19:31):
I don't I don't expect the worship team to sit on mine
twice. So Not that good.
Luke (19:37):
Yeah. So, like, the question all you know, some of
that kind of the practicality ofwhat how you manage that does
come in, but also not wanting tojust create and borrow and make
this kind of like celebrityotherness culture that is
unhelpful Right. The way that wekinda do church.
Cameron (19:56):
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. We've, started this, we we're in
a new series.
Luke (20:03):
Mhmm.
Cameron (20:05):
And we're gonna be saying that a lot the second
half of the year because all ofour series sermon series for the
second half of the year arepretty short. Yeah. Like, 4
weeks is max. But we're in thisnew series that we, are that we
called asking for a friend. And,so I think we may have even
(20:26):
previewed that here.
Luke (20:27):
We did.
Cameron (20:28):
Yeah. Where you could, text in your the questions that
you had about faith, the bible,or spirituality, Christianity,
whatever.
Luke (20:38):
Yep.
Cameron (20:39):
And that we would work to we would collate all those.
We would decide, okay, what'sthe kinda, like, the best ones
to preach on and then took someother ones. I'm like, okay.
We'll we'll bring these otherones over into our Wednesday
night classes. And, so we'vebeen working through those.
I think we're gonna be going inthe week 3
Luke (21:01):
Yep. Of We're halfway done.
Cameron (21:03):
Both of those. How is that
Luke (21:07):
Cameron is having a very uncut reaction to that right
now.
Cameron (21:11):
I'm not prepared for the next sermon series, and it's
like it's like right around thecorner. Yeah. And, so, week 1,
pastor Luke preached about howdo we deal as Christians when we
experience doubt. Yep. What dowe do there?
And then last week I preached onthe, building or the building of
(21:36):
empathy in us and what empathyis and it's rootedness in the
gospel. And then this comingweek, I'm gonna be preaching on
I didn't even like to say I'mpreaching on this. It's a whole
thing for me right now. It's I'mdealing I'm I'm going through
(21:56):
some things, people. Okay?
I'm going through some things.But, preaching on, angels,
demons, Satan Mhmm. Withinscripture
Luke (22:11):
Yep.
Cameron (22:13):
In general. I don't even like to say that. Right.
Because because you you don'twanna preach about Satan. No.
We preach Jesus Christ and himcrucified. Right. Right. Jesus
Christ crucified. Like, like,it's we're g it's Jesus centric,
all of our preaching.
(22:33):
Yeah. Aim for it to be Jesuscentric. But, so I'll be
preaching on that in relation tothe lordship of Jesus. Yes.
Because that's the only way Ithat's the only way I would
consider doing it.
Luke (22:49):
Mhmm.
Cameron (22:51):
And then the following week, the very last week, you're
preaching the last of the sermon
Luke (22:58):
I am.
Cameron (22:59):
Which the title of that sermon or the topic of that
sermon
Luke (23:11):
is What do we do? Why did God allow evil into the world?
Cameron (23:14):
Yes. The problem of evil. Theodicy.
Luke (23:16):
Theodicy. Yes. Gotta I'm gonna try and ascertain God's
intention as to why there's evilinto the world.
Cameron (23:23):
Yeah. Right.
Luke (23:25):
It's own thing.
Cameron (23:28):
Yeah. For sure. You know, and there's been, you
know, there's very apologetic.And by apologetic, I mean the
discipline of apologetics. Mhmm.
There's, a pretty substantiallibrary, apologetic library
about that question in general,which tends to be on the more
(23:48):
intellectual side of, like, likehow can we make logical sense
of, prevalence of pain or evilor whatever.
Luke (24:00):
I think my favorite book on that topic is Keller's book,
Walking With Jesus Through Painand Suffering.
Cameron (24:08):
I've not read
Luke (24:08):
it. I think it's he does an overview of pretty much every
major theodicy and deconstructsit and tells you why it's wrong.
Okay. Typical killer. And thentells and then leaves you with
the a biblical biblicalexplanation for suffering, which
is that there's not much of anexplanation for suffering.
Cameron (24:27):
So Yeah. Well, that's, certainly is a deep topic. Yeah.
A deep topic. And, good luck.
Luke (24:43):
Thanks.
Cameron (24:45):
Yeah. I mean but right after that, we're going into a
sermon series on politics.
Luke (24:50):
So Everyone's favorite topic.
Cameron (24:53):
Mhmm. Yep. So, yeah. What have you how have you been
feeling about, like, well, 1,talk a little bit about, like,
the process of choosing some ofthose topics Yeah. And how,
like, you just talk about
Luke (25:15):
it a little. Yeah. Well, because, like, we got a bunch of
questions. And, you know, if ifwe took people's questions
verbatim, we wouldn't reallyalways come up with a sermon.
So, like, you know, so what wehave so we do sometimes is we
(25:36):
kinda look at the theme of someof the questions, maybe combine
a couple, kind of bring themtogether, and kinda say, like,
how do we turn this into 1 themeor topic that we think we can
preach on?
You know, I was talking withsomeone who I know is probably
gonna listen to this podcastepisode because they were asking
(25:57):
why we hadn't recorded in awhile. Mhmm. But, they were
asking, like, why did Jesus notwrite any of the books of the
Bible himself? Which, whichwhich but that's not that's
that's a pretty narrow questionMhmm. That wasn't I was like,
(26:18):
the and we talked a little bitabout that, and the answer being
is that we don't really know whyGod Jesus chose not to do that
other than he seemed fit to wantto involve the disciples and
Mhmm.
Wasn't his primary purpose.Yeah. So, and that's pretty much
the answer. I was like, that'syou know, it wouldn't make it's
(26:38):
not enough topic for a sermonnecessarily.
Cameron (26:41):
The answer to that question isn't necessarily
theological nor is it rooted inscripture itself.
Luke (26:46):
Mhmm.
Cameron (26:46):
You know, it's really a more cultural 1. Like, if I were
to answer that question, I wouldanswer it probably from the the
basis of the
Luke (26:52):
culture right now. Because, like, is there some
sort of like the expectation ofhow a rabbi taught and this
message was transmitted and all
Cameron (27:02):
of that. Right. And like, yeah, it's was still
primarily an oral culture.
Luke (27:08):
Mhmm.
Cameron (27:11):
Jesus was gone Mhmm. In heaven. Yep. Right. By the time
it was beginning to transitioninto a written culture.
Luke (27:24):
Yep.
Cameron (27:24):
Or at the very least, was beginning
Luke (27:26):
It was beginning to spread in such a way that it needed to
be written.
Cameron (27:28):
It needed to be written. Yep. Yep. And so it
could be circulated.
Luke (27:31):
Yep.
Cameron (27:33):
But, yeah. No. Like, you're right questions. There
are questions that are askedthat are not necessarily
preachable. Right.
Right. We can We
Luke (27:45):
can answer it or talk about it.
Cameron (27:47):
Yeah. Talk, teach. And so we have used Wednesday nights
as a way to do some of that.
Luke (27:54):
Yes. Yeah. So we try and formulate them into kind of a
more pithy general question.Mhmm. And then, and then we try
and do our best to thematicallycover that through the Bible.
Right? Try and find either aprimary singular or couple of
(28:17):
primary texts that deal withthat topic or idea, root our
primary exposition somewhere andthen cover that. You know, like
that's our, that's how we kindado it. You know? I think, we've
talked about this here, butsometimes people I don't know
that I don't I haven't hadanybody say this in a long time,
(28:37):
but, you know, people are like,oh, we only wanna hear
expositional preaching, andexpositional preaching, like,
can't be topical.
And I've always thought thatjust to be, it's like you can do
topical preaching and have it beexpositional. Mhmm. It's like I
Cameron (28:53):
just expositing several different tests.
Luke (28:57):
Yes. Together and having them interpret 1 another. Like,
that's that's stillexpositional. So just because
we're not going through, like, abook doesn't mean we're not
doing expositional preaching. Ithink we pretty much exclusively
do expositional.
Yeah. Like, because we're alwaysrooting it in the text.
Cameron (29:15):
So Yeah. I don't think that there really can be another
faithful or effective way ofpreaching than for it to be
expositional. Right. Even ifit's topical. Right.
Luke (29:25):
So yeah. So yeah. Well, that's how we kind of did that.
And yeah. Was that kind of thequestion you were So Yeah.
Kinda driving at?
Cameron (29:34):
Yeah. You might find that, like, oh, maybe you
submitted a question that didn'tmake make the list, so to speak,
and that wasn't like not all thequestions were bad. No. Or there
was wasn't it's not that thequestion was bad. It's just
that, like, sometimes we trywe're we're trying to lump
(29:55):
similar types of questionstogether to hit a wider base, or
it might just be that, like,it's probably be better for a
conversation or just a quickanswer.
And the whole sermon is notnecessary.
Luke (30:08):
Yeah. This or we put it into a Wednesday class. So like
this last week, we did. I taughton, what did I call it?
Contemporary issues with, like,sexuality.
Sexual issues. Yeah. Temporarysexual issues, trying to cover a
biblical sexual ethic. Thisweek, we'll talk about, what do
(30:30):
I do when a friend confesses sinto me? Which I think is gonna be
a fun topic.
Cameron (30:34):
Especially coming off the heels of empathy.
Luke (30:37):
For sure. And what's the what's the other 1? What's the
other class topic? I know whatthe last 1 is. What's the 1
before that That you'reteaching?
Cameron (30:50):
I don't know.
Luke (30:53):
Because we're doing 1 on Catholicism.
Cameron (30:56):
Catholicism was the last 1.
Luke (30:59):
Maybe that is the last 1.
Cameron (31:00):
No. Because no. It can't be. It is wait for it.
Drum roll.
Wait for it. The afterlife.
Luke (31:15):
Ah, yes. The
Cameron (31:16):
afterlife. Questions concerning Heaven, purgatory,
the rapture.
Luke (31:22):
Yes. So we get
Cameron (31:23):
because we got a lot of a lot of those types of
questions.
Luke (31:25):
Yep. Yeah. Yep. So kinda just lump that all in there
together.
Cameron (31:30):
Yep. Mhmm. Yeah. So that's kind of been life in a
nutshell.
Luke (31:37):
Yeah. That's a lot of that's a lot of topicals takes
more research and I think brainpower than getting our head
inside of a singular book of theBible and kind of following it,
following the through line.Because it's like, I'm sure for
(31:58):
your last 1 that you just did,how do we grow in our empathy?
There's not like a passage thatsays, you know, thus what
empathy is. Right.
Jesus Jesus said, this is whatempathy is, and this is how you
grow in it. Like, there's notext on that.
Cameron (32:16):
The word empathy doesn't even really exist In the
bible. In the new testament.Right.
Luke (32:21):
Yeah. So having to kind of walk through that in a larger
theological Mhmm. Sense. I'mcure I'm I wonder if people
would how do you do that? Like,how do if someone, like, wants
to learn about, like, what theBible has to say about a
particular topic, what do they
Cameron (32:39):
do? What should they do? What should what do you do?
What should they do? Like Yeah.
Almost always, I, almost alwaysif there is a topic, like, I the
first the the first thing that Iwould do would be to, do a quick
(33:03):
review of the gospels.
Luke (33:04):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:05):
Whether that would be just like in my own head or
whether I would actually skim orread the gospels to see if this
is an issue or a corollary issueto anything that Jesus either
talked about
Luke (33:18):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:19):
Experienced himself, dealt with, or that his ministry
represents. Yep. So what isfirst what is what is its
rootedness in the life of Jesus?
Luke (33:28):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:30):
And so it's that's similar to what I did with
empathy.
Luke (33:34):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:34):
You know? Yeah. You have to, I think, have some some
type of understanding of whatthe actual like like, so since
empathy is not the word empathyis not in the scripture.
Luke (33:45):
Right. You've gotta extrapolate it out to a theme or
a concept.
Cameron (33:48):
Well, I had to have some type of idea of what
empathy even was first. Right.And so if if I'm using kind of
the working definition ofempathy of being like being
present with someone in themidst of their experiences,
whether positive or negative,hurting, broken, joy,
celebration, whatever, or beingpresent with someone. And then
(34:13):
so if you kinda go off of likethat as a working definition and
then you're like, alright. Well,the obvious question is, like,
was Jesus like, is that a thingthat is represented in the
ministry of Jesus?
Was he present in the life ofthe hurting and the broken? Holy
crap.
Luke (34:31):
Yeah. You know? Every chapter.
Cameron (34:32):
Every chapter. Every line. Right? Was he present in
the life of people who werejoyful or celebrating? Mhmm.
We yes. We have examples of thatas well. Mhmm. Like, okay. So
now we know it's rooted in thelife of Jesus.
What more now can we say aboutit? That's kinda how I went from
the from, like, was able tobecause it's not really
(34:55):
something that I, like, held asa strongly, like, had as a
strongly held belief before Iprepared the sermon Mhmm. Was
that the incarnation was anexample, like, a deeply
theological understanding ofempathy.
Luke (35:09):
Mhmm.
Cameron (35:09):
Right? That that God God came to be present with us.
Luke (35:13):
Yep.
Cameron (35:15):
And to save us from our sin, to be with be with us in
the hurt and brokenness of sinin our lives, to bring both his
presence and the power of JesusChrist, but also offer response
to that. Mhmm. Like, holy cow.Like, yeah, the incarnation is,
is empathy.
Luke (35:34):
Yep.
Cameron (35:37):
And they're not 1 of the same, but, like, it is an
example of empathy. And Yeah.And then you obviously see,
okay, what can you learn frommaybe a few examples of Jesus'
interaction with the hurting andbroken in scripture? Like, how
does he show up? What does hedo?
And so, like, in March chapter14 or no. I'm sorry. March
chapter 1, the story of theleper
Luke (35:58):
Yep.
Cameron (35:59):
Where we talked about the funny words.
Luke (36:02):
Yeah.
Cameron (36:05):
And, that word I read about in a commentary. Mhmm. So
it's not like I didn't know itwasn't my insight or anything
like that.
Luke (36:12):
You don't you're not a walking Greek lexicon, Cameron?
Cameron (36:15):
No. I'm not. But,
Luke (36:19):
And neither is most preachers.
Cameron (36:20):
No. Like, no. We're not, you know, we're not Greek
scholars or anything like that.
Luke (36:24):
Someone says, not every preacher, some preachers know
their Greek super well, butYeah. I would not say the
majority.
Cameron (36:31):
I know where to go
Luke (36:32):
Sure. To
Cameron (36:34):
to find out what the Greek says it is.
Luke (36:37):
And you can engage with that.
Cameron (36:38):
And I can agree. Yes. Yeah. Right. But I don't know
it, like, just by reading it.
Luke (36:42):
Yeah. You're I don't walk in and see you doing your Greek
flashcard.
Cameron (36:45):
No. No. But even that, like, taking just that 1 word or
that 1 that 1 phrase Mhmm. Andbeing able to discover where
else does it exist in the NewTestament. 12 times the New
Testament every single time.
It's translated either Jesus hadcompassion on them or Jesus was
indignant or Jesus was all ofthat. And really what it signify
(37:09):
what that word was, like, theauthor, the the ones using that
word were trying to communicatea, like, deep at his core, the
center of who he was. He feltthese things. He felt compassion
Yeah. For people.
And so and then there's justthings that we do as preachers
(37:31):
to, like, okay. This is what theword says.
Luke (37:36):
Mhmm.
Cameron (37:36):
It's clear that it's all here, but how now are we
bridging the gap between whatthe word says and what how Jesus
wants to use that through hisholy spirit in our lives? Mhmm.
Like, how do we how are wegetting from that point to the
next point?
Luke (37:54):
Right.
Cameron (37:54):
And so there's many many different things that we
can do there, many differentways that we can address that.
But what I chose for this pastweek was just to offer, like, 1
line prayers that people couldpray throughout the week to
develop more empathy. So that'sreally similar. So, like, I'm
we'll be preaching a series onforgiveness here in a few
(38:15):
months.
Luke (38:15):
Mhmm.
Cameron (38:16):
Even a few months. 2 months. 1 month.
Luke (38:20):
Less time than you think.
Cameron (38:21):
Yes. And the question is, well, where in the Bible
does it talk about forgiveness?What's the where's the
forgiveness section of theBible? There's not a forgiveness
section.
Luke (38:32):
Right.
Cameron (38:32):
Forgiveness is talked about a lot. Yes. Like Jesus,
Paul. Right? And and he talksabout it a ton.
Mhmm. But there's no 1 section.So you gotta kind of take each
of those sections and say,alright. Well, what is it trying
to communicate here? Mhmm.
You know, like, if I take theend of the Sermon on the Mount
where Jesus is talking about themeasure upon which you are
(38:54):
forgiven is measured the same asthe how much you forgive.
Luke (38:59):
Mhmm.
Cameron (39:00):
Right? And so take that take application from that
verse, and it becomes a sermonpoint. But then now then maybe
I'm jumping over to Paul. Youknow? And we're we're drawing
application from different fromdifferent parts of the of the
scripture.
So, you know, it topical andexpositional go hand in hand. I
(39:23):
don't I think it's unfair toseparate them all the time. Yep.
But, you know, if you're alayperson and you're like, okay.
What what if I want to use thesame example?
What if I wanna learn what theBible says about forgiveness?
Luke (39:42):
Mhmm.
Cameron (39:43):
Right? You know, I think you do have to be careful
about Internet tools.
Luke (39:49):
Mhmm.
Cameron (39:51):
But there are some reliable ones out there that we
can that I could recommend tosay where you could go in and
type in the search barforgiveness. Mhmm. And they're
generally gonna be really,really blue letter Bible is 1 I
use. Mhmm. Bible gateway is 1that I you have used before.
But, that's gonna give you notit's not gonna maybe flat out
(40:13):
tell you this is whatforgiveness is. But, like, if
you go toblueletterbible.comororg, 1
Luke (40:20):
of the
Cameron (40:20):
2, and you do a keyword search for forgiveness, it's
gonna list out every singlereference to the word
forgiveness in scripture, andthen then you have to do the
work. Yeah. Then you gotta digthrough those.
Luke (40:39):
Right. And And read around those verses.
Cameron (40:42):
Right. Yes. Yeah. Understand context and Mhmm.
Draw some application and asksome questions to people in the
faith.
You know? So it's that that'show I deal topically with
things. Yeah. You know, it's notreally magic. And sometimes you
(41:04):
get a topic and you're like,okay.
There is a very, very definitivestory in the gospels about this
topic.
Luke (41:13):
Yep. Sometimes that happens.
Cameron (41:15):
You know? Like, I already know that in the
forgiveness series, I'm gonnaI'm gonna teach on the parable
of the unmerciful servant. Mhmm.Easy. Yep.
I'm not easy, but, like Sure.It's just here. Right. Right? I
got it.
Right. That's a whole sermon forsure.
Luke (41:29):
Yep.
Cameron (41:29):
You know? And but others like empathy, like, maybe
you gotta think about it alittle bit more or politics. You
gotta think about it even alittle bit more. So you gotta
run through the scripture againand, like, how many times how
many times over the last almost20 years of ministry as a
preacher of the word have I readthe entire of the New Testament
(41:51):
just to to prepare for 1 sermon
Luke (41:56):
Yep.
Cameron (41:56):
Or 1 sermon series to make sure that I have mined the
well Mhmm. Of God's word. Yeah.And people are like, well, how
does it take how could itpossibly take you that many
hours to prepare 1 well, whenyou're reading the whole New
Testament in a week
Luke (42:16):
Yeah.
Cameron (42:17):
And then drawing out the application from it and
trying to sort through
Luke (42:21):
Mhmm. What
Cameron (42:21):
people need to hear and what the Lord wants to have
said, like, it could chew up alot of time really quick.
Luke (42:27):
Yeah. Well, and it's at least I've gotten better at
this, but it's still temptingsometimes in research and
reading to chase a red herring.
Cameron (42:38):
Mhmm.
Luke (42:39):
Like, my classic example of this was I was preaching in
Daniel. I think I was doingDaniel in the lion's den, and
there was some historicitydebate around who was king or
overseer when that was happeningand whether or not that was this
person or this person andwhether that person really
(43:00):
existed. And I came all read allthis really long historical text
and came to what I thought was avery good conclusion. And I
turned and asked somebody, Isaid, where should I put this in
my sermon you think?
Cameron (43:14):
You shouldn't.
Luke (43:14):
And they're like, why would you Yeah. Put that in your
sermon? Yeah. Like, literally no1 cares. I was just like, well,
I guess I spent so I've spenthours reading and researching
this.
Somebody should care because Icared. Right.
Cameron (43:30):
Yeah. How much would you say? Because that's an
interesting point because howmuch would if you had to if you
had to guess, it's probably anunfair question. Each sermon is
a little bit different. Yeah.
How much of your research hitsthe cutting room floor?
Luke (43:46):
Now much less than it used to because I'm much more
discerning in what I read. Iused to, because I was because
before I was writing sermons, Iwas writing research papers. I
was writing Bible papers. And soyou had to do your research. So
(44:06):
I'm grabbing the mostcomplicated textbooks I can get
and, like, commentary orsomething, you know, going
through them.
Now I like I open, you know, itit when I used to when I was
gonna do a exegetical paper orbiblical paper on a passage, I
would go and get, like, aminimum of 5 or 6 commentaries,
(44:29):
put them on the scanner, and I'dscan the pages, put them on a
PDF, and I'd read like all ofthem on all the sections. Now, I
may be open, like, usually openat least 2 commentaries, maybe
3, if it's like, if there'ssomething in the text that is
like kind of confusing. Mhmm.And they're usually I usually go
(44:50):
for the Zondervan, like,background, historical cultural
background commentary is usuallythe first 1 I open.
Cameron (45:03):
Mhmm.
Luke (45:04):
And then I usually grab, if I have it. And if I don't,
sometimes I buy it, the digitalversion of the new
international, the NIVapplication commentary, because
usually, it's 1 of the bettercommentaries and they summarize
the things instead of, you know?
Cameron (45:25):
Mhmm.
Luke (45:26):
And then maybe if I really need something, I'll go into 1
more more technical ones. That'spretty much it. Yeah. You know?
And so I, like, I I usually Iusually leave out pretty much
anything that has to do with,like, word, like, interpretation
(45:46):
when it comes into, like, whatdoes this word mean or
something?
I leave the conclusion in there,but I almost I very rarely,
unless it's like a word that isreally it's it's obviously
translated different indifferent translations where
people have a hard time kind ofgetting what this means in
English. I almost nevermentioned any kind of background
(46:08):
behind it. I just kinda preachit as it is. So I don't know,
maybe 30% of what I read justdoesn't hit. 30, 40% doesn't
make it into the sermon.
Mhmm. Sometimes less than that.Yeah. What about you?
Cameron (46:23):
It depends on the topic. Yeah.
Luke (46:27):
I
Cameron (46:27):
would say it's probably pretty accurate. Like, I'm
always, like, I I like to overprepare Yeah. As a, as a source
of comfort
Luke (46:42):
Mhmm.
Cameron (46:42):
And I don't wanna say confidence Yeah. In, like, the
grasp of the topic Yeah. Or theverse. Yep. You know, even if I
am not preaching a certain pointof the verse Mhmm.
I wanna know for the most parteverything
Luke (47:04):
Mhmm.
Cameron (47:04):
About it. Yeah. Because sometimes things do turn on a
dime Yeah. During a sermon, andyou do draw from. Yeah.
Something you learned in yourresearch or whatever. Doesn't
happen all the time. But Yeah.You usually, at that point,
you've kind of whittled down towhat are the most important
(47:27):
things. Because, like, the wholethe whole question about, like,
the king, who was the king inDaniel.
Luke (47:34):
And not even the whole thing in Daniel, just this 1
part of Daniel.
Cameron (47:38):
The the the question that I always walk away with is,
like, what what is actuallyhelpful for people? Right. Yep.
And and that's not the samething as to say, oh, you're just
preaching what people wannahear.
Luke (47:53):
No. No. It's certainly not doing that.
Cameron (47:54):
What they what is most helpful for people is sometimes
not exactly not what they want.They don't wanna hear it.
Luke (48:01):
Right.
Cameron (48:03):
And so if the if the name of the king has good
applicability to mycongregation, then I'm gonna
dive into that. Sure. But ifit's just gonna be if it's just
gonna show the diligence of myresearch, it's not about me.
Right? It's not about me.
(48:25):
So but that it is I think it ismaybe not important, but I I
would hope that people would Iwould hope that people would
honor the diligence of theirpastor
Luke (48:42):
Mhmm.
Cameron (48:43):
By understanding how much time we really do spend
preparing
Luke (48:50):
Yeah.
Cameron (48:51):
Messages from the Lord for them.
Luke (48:54):
Yeah.
Cameron (48:57):
And and that that would be evident Yeah. In the
preaching.
Luke (49:02):
I think the sermon I preached on spiritual warfare,
we struggle not against fleshand blood, but against prince
and principalities and so forth.And in end of Ephesians, I think
I probably left out 60% of whatI read.
Cameron (49:15):
There's a lot there. Yeah. There's a lot.
Luke (49:18):
Right
Cameron (49:19):
in that script.
Luke (49:19):
And it's such, it's kind of a it's not a super talked
about topic. Right. And so it'slike, I was, I think I got, I
think I had 3 books that weren'teven commentaries open. Yeah. In
addition to like the 4 or 5commentaries I was reading on
it.
Mhmm. I left out like 60% ofwhat I read on in preparing for
(49:43):
that 1, for sure.
Cameron (49:44):
How helpful do you find, you got time. How helpful
do you find, listening to otherpreachers preach the same text?
Luke (49:59):
When I was younger and I was brand new at preaching,
before I even really knew what Iwas doing, I was preaching at
youth group. I would do thatwould be a significant portion
of my study, because I wouldlisten to other trusted
preachers I kinda like reliedupon and would kind of use them
to kinda inform me. Now, Ialmost never. I will do it on
(50:23):
occasion if it's a topic thatI'm really kind of like, I want
a little bit of confidence thatI'm coming to a, like, an agreed
upon. Mhmm.
Or if I'm really just, like, ifI'm, like, slammed.
Cameron (50:40):
Yeah.
Luke (50:40):
And I'm, like, I do not have the time to read more, but
I can throw 1 on as a podcast orsomething, and I can listen to
it a little bit. I will do thaton occasion. But I would say
that now, I almost never listento a sermon on a topic or a
passage before I preach it.Mhmm. Because it usually, and I
(51:02):
don't, and if I do, I don't likeit.
It's It's never my first stepNo. Or second or third. It's
I've usually got, like, myoutline. Yep. I've got like a
general sense of my main ideaand my general gist of an
outline before I ever listen toa sermon because it's too easy
(51:23):
to just- Take it.
Take it, even unintentionally,and pull what they did and form
it into your own. So I like mostof my stuff to be kinda done.
And then if I listen to asermon, it's mostly to just try
and like, maybe I'll glean aquote or just a bit of an
(51:43):
affirmation that, like, alright,I've thought through this text.
Yes. I'm usually listening tosomebody who is also, like like,
I've been listening to a littlebit to John Tyson because that
man does his research.
Cameron (51:55):
He's very well read.
Luke (51:56):
Very well read. And I'm just like, good grief, man.
Cameron (52:01):
I still don't know how they do it.
Luke (52:02):
Yeah. Don't know how they do it. So
Cameron (52:04):
Actually, I do know how John does it because he actually
talked about it once. How doeshe do it? You're not gonna like
the answer. Fine.
Luke (52:13):
Do you have researchers?
Cameron (52:14):
No. Okay. No. He, he says he has he answered this
question. He said, he's like,it's not this is a personal
value and a personal conviction.
It's not for everyone else.
Luke (52:27):
Mhmm.
Cameron (52:27):
I know that it is for me. It's what the Lord has
called me to. But he essentiallysaid, like, we I have I have
spent significant seasons of mylife, telling my wife and my
family that, like, don't ask meto watch a Netflix series with
you. Don't ask me to, like wewon't be watching like, not
going out to movies. I'm notwatching Netflix at the end of
(52:51):
the day.
I'm not, like, involved in a lotof extracurricular, like,
things. He was like, I like I gohe didn't say it like this. He
is much more Australian aboutthe way that he said it. But,
essentially, like, he has, like,he he commits every bit of brain
(53:16):
power that he has towardsdigesting material in order to
preach.
Luke (53:22):
I mean, power to them.
Cameron (53:24):
Yeah. So, like, when I'm laying in bed with Netflix
on, scrolling my phone in theTyson household, He's sitting in
his chair reading Augustine.
Luke (53:36):
Yeah. I mean, power to him.
Cameron (53:40):
I love it. I I love it. Yeah. I I feel a little
convicted towards that. Yeah.
I it's hard for me to say Idon't have the discipline, but I
don't have the discipline forit. Or maybe it's like the I
don't have the heart. I don't,like, I had not been given a
heart like a burden, like hehas.
Luke (54:02):
I I don't have the brain power for it. Yeah. I shut down.
I I like, this is something I'veactually, like, really struggled
with is that, like, I only haveso many hours of active brain
power in me any given day.
Cameron (54:16):
Yeah.
Luke (54:18):
And when I hit my limit, I'm pretty shot. Yep. Like, and
sometimes you see this if youcome up to me after, like,
church on Sunday, and I looklike a deer in headlights, it's
because I am. Like I might beshot. I might be at like pretty
much maxed out.
And it doesn't mean I can't giveanything, but I'm certainly not
reading Augustine's confessionsafter that.
Cameron (54:40):
Yeah. I've been reading more
Luke (54:44):
Mhmm.
Cameron (54:45):
At night, especially at night.
Luke (54:47):
Mhmm.
Cameron (54:48):
After kids go to bed. Yeah. But even then, it's like,
I don't I can't do hours.
Luke (54:55):
Mm-mm.
Cameron (54:56):
Like, I I maybe get, like, a half hour to an hour
Luke (54:58):
Yep.
Cameron (54:59):
Of before, like, I'm I mean, I usually get up to, like,
4 and 5 to do my workout. And soby the time 9 o'clock rolls
around Yeah. I'm, like, lookingto go to sleep. Yep. And so I
don't have a whole lot of timeYeah.
To do that. I really wish I wasbetter at
Luke (55:24):
it. Yeah.
Cameron (55:27):
And, you know, I can hear my inner coach tell me
right now Mhmm. Like, it's not amotivation thing. It's not even
an energy thing. It's adiscipline thing. Yeah.
Because I tell my students that.Yeah. Tell the athletes that I
coach that. Like, no. It's likeyou know, getting up, everyone's
like, well, how are you somotivated to get up in the
morning and go work out?
(55:48):
I'm not motivated.
Luke (55:50):
Right. It's it's not because if you do it only when
you're motivated, you're gonnado it twice.
Cameron (55:55):
Yeah. Ever. You're never gonna do it. Right. I'm
I'm not motivated.
I'm disciplined. Yeah. Like,there's there's something else
in me Yeah. That drives me to dothat. That's my must.
Yeah.
Luke (56:05):
Yeah. No. If, like, III can hear that. I I if I was to,
like, try and take stock of theempty time
Cameron (56:10):
Mhmm.
Luke (56:11):
In my life and, like, limit my phone, which I have
gotten much better. I probablytalk about how much I'm on my
phone way too much publicly.People are gonna think I'm like
a screen addict or something.But it is true. But it is true.
Cameron (56:25):
Every single time someone says they don't have
time for that, I ask them tocheck their screen time app.
Luke (56:31):
Yeah. My screen time was up the last, like, 2 weeks. I'm
like, I gotta yep. Gotta getthat down. I don't wanna so,
like, I'm going I'm at leastreading fiction when I get into
bed at night now.
You know? So but, just to closethe circle, what do you what
what does your prep look likewith sermons or non sermons?
Cameron (56:52):
It's very similar to yours. Yeah. They're, usually, I
want usually, I will go to asermon after mine is complete to
just get confirmation that I amapproaching the scripture
correctly.
Luke (57:06):
Mhmm.
Cameron (57:06):
Or that not even confirmation that I'm
approaching the scripturecorrectly.
Luke (57:11):
Mhmm.
Cameron (57:12):
But that, like, you know, sometimes, like, you say
your preacher's scripture, like,that's, like, 10 verses long.
Yep. And there's 3 or 4 topicsthat you could take Yep. Out of
that. And sometimes I just wannasee, like, am I approaching this
(57:34):
in a way that's, like, faithful,helpful Yep.
Preachable, hearing the lord onit
Luke (57:42):
Yeah.
Cameron (57:43):
And have I already done the work and not asking some
other guy to do the work for meso that I can just take it and
use it. Mhmm. But, you know andthen sometimes I like to go
honestly, sometimes I like to goand listen to guys that I know
I'm not necessarily gonna agreewith to see whether or not I'm
(58:06):
just preaching my bias Yeah. OrLike
Luke (58:13):
listen to somebody else try and preach it a different
way.
Cameron (58:17):
And And maybe not even with a different way, but, like,
in a different spirit. You know?Mhmm. Yeah. I I'm not saying
this pejoratively about him atall.
I don't mean this in a negativesense to to John MacArthur.
Luke (58:28):
Sure.
Cameron (58:28):
But he and I are different. We're different
preachers. Right. We'redifferent pastors.
Luke (58:33):
Right.
Cameron (58:33):
But there are several times, especially through
Ephesians
Luke (58:37):
Mhmm.
Cameron (58:37):
Where I went to where I like, how how is how is pastor
John preaching through this texthere?
Luke (58:44):
Mhmm. What
Cameron (58:45):
was his approach? Yeah. What was the spirit in which he
brought to it? Mhmm. How whatwas the pastoral heart that he
brought to the teaching?
Mhmm. Because the the, like, theactual content is really kind of
unarguable. Right. What was thepastoral heart that he brought
to the content? Just to kind of,like, get a sense of it.
(59:08):
Yeah. And I don't really knowwhy other than like I felt like
I needed more. And I like yousaid, I didn't really have my
eyes could no longer stay opento read another commentary. Yep.
You know?
(59:29):
Or so yeah. Obviously, you know,we skipped over a a significant
amount of, like, the probablythe most significant portion of
sermon preparation is that thetime we spend in our knees in
prayer about something, which issignificant. Mhmm. But but I I
(59:57):
would hope that that would beself evident. Alright?
I would hope that that would be,like, the obvious foundation.
Luke (01:00:04):
Yep. And
Cameron (01:00:05):
then then we add the preparation to it as well. Yeah.
So
Luke (01:00:10):
but Yep.
Cameron (01:00:11):
So don't hear that as saying that we never pray. But
Right. Right.
Luke (01:00:14):
Yes.
Cameron (01:00:16):
Well, welcome back. Yep. Thanks for listening in.
Sorry we've been, absent for afew weeks. We it's not our
intent to do this or to do itregularly or often.
Luke (01:00:27):
Yeah.
Cameron (01:00:28):
Be absent that long.
Luke (01:00:29):
Nope. It's just
Cameron (01:00:30):
the longest break that we've had in a year Very much. A
half of doing this.
Luke (01:00:34):
Yeah. And very much an unintentional 1. So
Cameron (01:00:37):
Yeah. And there's several times over the next
couple of weeks where nextcouple of months actually where
we're gonna be you're gonna begone or I'm gonna be gone or
we're both gonna be gone or, youknow, we're gonna be traveling
or whatever. So try and keep itas regular as we can and Yep. We
stack a cool maybe stack acouple of recordings up in the
road so that we can get over to.Thanks for listening, and, we'll
(01:01:01):
catch you
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke.
Cameron (00:09):
I am pastor Cameron.
Luke (00:10):
And this is the uncut podcast where we have honest and
uncut conversations about faith,life, ministry. Welcome back,
Cameron. Welcome back, Luke. Wehave been gone for Where have
you been, Luke? Where have Ibeen?
Where have I not been is thebetter question.
Cameron (00:27):
It really is true.
Luke (00:28):
Which we could simply answer by saying we've not been
in this room.
Cameron (00:32):
Yes. We've been everywhere else.
Luke (00:34):
We've been everywhere else.
Cameron (00:35):
We have not stopped doing ministry. We have not
stopped leading the church orour families. But sometimes,
something's gotta give Yep.Someplace. And for us, that
someplace was the podcast for afew weeks.
Mhmm. That's okay. Yeah. I'mokay with it.
Luke (00:57):
Yeah. It was definitely it wasn't like planned. It was just
like a series of, like,personal, family, professional,
like
Cameron (01:06):
Lemony Snicket's series of unfortunate events. Very
much.
Luke (01:11):
It's just, like, we were we connect on a Monday, and
we're like, are we gonna be ableto record this week? And we're
like, well, we could have doneit 20 minutes ago, but that was
the only window we had orsomething like that.
Cameron (01:23):
Right. Right. So we did our best. We did our best to,
you know, just keep thingsmoving on the ministry front and
Luke (01:35):
Yep.
Cameron (01:36):
Had some good things happen lately and
Luke (01:38):
Mhmm.
Cameron (01:39):
Some good movement forward. And, I'm curious, we
haven't really had thisconversation off camera, so we
can have it maybe on camera k.Is to how you are, like, how are
you feeling about, like, theministry load and, like, the
(02:00):
personal load
Luke (02:01):
Mhmm.
Cameron (02:02):
Of 2 services?
Luke (02:06):
Yeah. It's like if you aren't used to doing 2 services
back to back. Mhmm. And then wedon't have, like we don't have a
ton of lead time between our 2services. So by the time first
(02:29):
service is over at not at 10starts at 9, ends at 10 Mhmm.
20, 10:30. Our next servicestarts in a half hour, 40
minutes. And then we are not,you know, free of obligation in
between that time either. Sowe've got, like, our next
(02:51):
little, which is not a bigthing. You
Cameron (02:53):
know, we're gonna
Luke (02:54):
be at our huddle at, like, 10:35. So, I think the other
week, I realized that if you'rethe person who's preaching, how
much time you just end upspending on your feet. Yep. And
I was like, I need betterinserts in my shoes. Mhmm.
If I'm kinda I really like thoselook of those shoes, but they
(03:17):
were not as comfortable as Ithink they need to be if I'm
gonna be standing pretty muchthe entire time. Mhmm. I think I
don't know. It's it's not likeit's not that it's causing much
more work outside of Sunday.Like, I don't I don't it's not
(03:40):
really like, it's not that,like, my week is suddenly
ballooned because of that.
I
Cameron (03:47):
do feel like that maybe there's a sliver more mental
work
Luke (03:52):
Mhmm.
Cameron (03:53):
To to make sure logistics for the morning are
worked out, but that a lot ofthat doesn't fall on you and I.
No. A lot of that is Yeah. Otherstaff. Yeah.
But but you're right. Like, inthe preparation for the week, it
doesn't change it.
Luke (04:07):
So it's it's really just that, like, preaching it twice.
And what was it that IIII don'tknow. I preached something. It
It was 1 of the sermons I gaveor even just the the sermon I
did 2 weeks 2 weeks ago now?
Cameron (04:24):
On Doubt? On Doubt Mhmm.
Luke (04:26):
Was just like a heavy Sunday personally, and then to
preach kind of, not theweightiest sermon, but like it,
you know, it can really kind ofsomething that weighs heavy on
people. And I was just like,okay. Here we go. Like, charge
up that hill, like, again. So itwas kind of feel like, feeling a
(04:46):
little bit of out of emotionalbreath and then having to turn
around and do it again.
But I don't know that I'm youknow, so it is more I think it's
more emotional and mental workthe day of. But I don't know
that it's like I'm like, oh, mygosh, that's unsustainable. I
(05:08):
think it's at a place where I'mlike, I just kind of got to get
used to this a little bit, findmy rhythm of like, how much do I
tweak and change my sermonbetween, between services. Mhmm.
Because, you know, I'll kind of,like and how much is even
(05:30):
reasonable, you know, and howmuch is, like, intentional and
unintentional on that.
And so, yeah, it's I think it'sokay. I think it's it feels it's
felt like a a lot the lastcouple of times, but it's not
the I have confidence that,someone described it to me as,
(05:51):
like, when you're new toplaying, like, a sport or a
game, like, everything feelslike it's just going so fast,
because you're, like, trying toprocess all the information at
all at once. And as you kind ofget into it, the game slows down
and you start to process it. Andso I feel like this is 1 of
those scenarios where I'm like,it feels like there's just a
(06:12):
lot, but I think the more I'm init, the more we're in it. It'll
kind of slow down and it won'tfeel quite so big on a Sunday
afternoon once we're done.
Cameron (06:21):
Yeah. I mean, there is just still a newness to it that
is well, we've been doing it forwhen did we start it? Beginning
of May?
Luke (06:35):
Beginning of May. 1st week in May.
Cameron (06:37):
Yeah. So we're just, like, 2 months into it. Yeah.
Not even yet. So there is stilla newness to it Mhmm.
That
Luke (06:43):
But what about you? You've had more reps on preaching
through it so far. I've preacheda handful of times with this new
service structure, but you'vedone the majority so far.
Cameron (06:53):
I'm definitely more tired at the end of the day.
Mhmm. I have like, I've nottried to, like, manage my energy
Luke (07:10):
Mhmm.
Cameron (07:11):
In the first service so that I have something left for
the second. Right. I just don'tI didn't feel like that was
necessary or anything like that.I just, you know, just send it
and Yep. It'd be fine.
I have recognized that some bitof, like, self care in between
(07:32):
services is definitely necessaryfor me. Yeah. I need to get a
loan even if it's just for,like, 2 or 3 minutes
Luke (07:40):
Mhmm.
Cameron (07:41):
In between services. It's helpful for me to eat
something. Yep. I'm almostalways really hungry even if I
eat a big breakfast in themorning Yep. You know, before I
come in for first service.
So there is a little bit morefatigue, and I feel like a
(08:02):
little bit more a greaternecessity to, like, check-in
with myself physically,mentally, emotionally, and
spiritually in between sermons.Yeah. But all in all, I I feel
like, you know, it's been apositive experience, and I don't
(08:24):
feel I don't feel particularlylike it was a bad decision or
that there was a, like, a areally big blind spot that we
had that is glaring
Luke (08:37):
No.
Cameron (08:37):
At us now. So all in all, like, I think
Luke (08:47):
that's good. That food thing, though, is real.
Cameron (08:49):
It is real.
Luke (08:50):
I'm like, I sometimes sometimes it was kind of a
toss-up as to whether or not Iused to eat on Sundays because
sometimes I don't like to eatbefore I, like, preach. Mhmm.
Just kind of like, I just feelmore comfortable on an empty
stomach for some reason. Mhmm.But I cannot do that with 2
services because I'm like, I'mready.
Cameron (09:08):
Because it's 1 o'clock then.
Luke (09:10):
Yeah. And then I And you haven't eaten. And I'm just
like, right. Yeah. I'mdefinitely not feeling holy at
that point.
I think the other thing I wasthinking about was, I think
somebody came up to me to have aconversation with me after 1 of
the services this last Sunday.And I was sitting here and I was
thinking, what did we talkabout? I just couldn't remember
(09:34):
that whole conversation. Or ifwe'd had that conversation, I
was like, did we actually chat?I don't remember.
And, like, I'm thinking that Imight have to and I don't know
that this is new to having 2services, but it might be made
worse by having 2 services. I'mlike, I think I'm gonna have to
come up with, like, a method of,like, if someone like is coming
(09:56):
up to talk to me about somethingthat's gonna require follow-up
or action outside of Sundayservice, I'm gonna have to start
saying, can you email me?
Cameron (10:06):
That's what I do.
Luke (10:07):
Or something. Because like, if someone comes up to me,
says something to me, it is justgonna go straight out of my
brain.
Cameron (10:13):
I tell people when they come up to me, Sunday morning
and they're and we're talkingabout something important
Luke (10:19):
Mhmm.
Cameron (10:20):
In in particular, something important that I need
to remember
Luke (10:24):
Right.
Cameron (10:24):
I've just gotten in the habit of being honest with them,
saying, like, Sunday morningsare a little bit, in some ways,
a a blur to me Mhmm. When I tryto sort out the details at the
end of the day. Yep. And so thisbut this conversation is really
important to me Mhmm. And Idon't want to drop this ball.
Could you please text me?
Luke (10:44):
Mhmm.
Cameron (10:45):
Because some sometimes even in in emails, things get
lost. Right?
Luke (10:48):
That's true.
Cameron (10:49):
But they don't typically on the phone. Right?
Could you please text me andremind me? Even text me right
now.
Luke (10:57):
Yeah. Right. Just so that there's a note
Cameron (10:59):
So then I have the notification. I won't take the
notification off, and then I'll,like, I'm I'm able to deal with
it. And and I will get back tothis, like, tomorrow or Tuesday
or something like that. Yeah.Because that's been, like, I I
don't want to I really don'twanna drop the ball on someone
or with the situation.
Yeah. And it's never, like it'sit's almost never intentional
(11:24):
to, like, not deal withsomething I haven't seen that.
Yeah. Like that. So, yeah, I getin the I've gotten in the habit
of just telling them flat outright from the beginning, hey.
Could you please you know, afterwe're done with this
conversation, please text meabout this. Right.
Luke (11:38):
Because I
Cameron (11:39):
don't wanna forget it. Yep. And, that's been helpful.
Luke (11:42):
Yeah. I'm gonna have to start doing that, I think,
because Sundays, I'm like, are alittle bit of a blur. Yeah. So
because you end up especiallynow that you have 2 services and
you have people coming up andtalking to you before and after
both of those services Yeah. Youcan kind of there's, like, 4
moments or 4 sections of timeMhmm.
Where you could be having peopleinteractions and, like, it could
(12:05):
get a little bit blurry for me.
Cameron (12:07):
This is why I think it's important to be able to
have a little bit of perspectivebefore you comment on things
like I'm thinking of theconversation I've seen online a
few times about, like, pastorsor worship teams having green
(12:28):
rooms. Mhmm. Yeah. And whetheror not that is like a
Luke (12:33):
Wholly a good a good thing or a bad thing.
Cameron (12:36):
Appropriate thing. Yeah. You know, whatever.
Luke (12:38):
Right.
Cameron (12:39):
And, I go I waffle on it a little bit.
Luke (12:43):
Mhmm.
Cameron (12:43):
At my heart, I I feel like and maybe that this is a
maybe we can just chalk this upto being as a personal value.
Mhmm. At my heart, I never wantto be so busy on a Sunday
morning that I need to Mhmm.Spend my time in the green room.
(13:04):
Right.
And if you're not familiar witha green room, it's kind of like
a what would you call it? Like aIt's a well, it's a staging area
Luke (13:11):
for people. It's well, the the the the 1 of the unhelpful
things about it is that I thinkthe terminology is borrowed
straight from the theater Yeah.And performance sector. Yeah. So
the green room in any theater orstage or concert venue place is
a place where the quote unquotetalent go to, like, before,
(13:33):
after the show, in between whenthey're not in stage, has
drinks, snacks, refreshments.
It's a place where they cankinda be and not be on stage or
not be, you know, you know,having people coming up and
Yeah. Wanting and needing thingsfrom them. It's kind of a
private it's the private placethat they can go backstage.
Yeah. Right.
So churches have adopted havinggreen rooms.
Cameron (13:56):
Some churches.
Luke (13:57):
Some churches. Particularly, usually larger
churches that have multi Sundayservice experiences that are
like you know, and they've got,you know, big worship teams and
Yep. And stuff like that. And sothey just have a they have a
room, and they just I don't knowif they act I don't know where
the term green came from. Like,it's actually supposed to be
(14:18):
painted green or not.
But and so churches have startedusing that as, like, a space for
Worship teams. Worship
Cameron (14:27):
teams, pastors. Stuff like that.
Luke (14:29):
All that to kinda have a Yeah. Place to go backstage,
particularly when you're doingmulti services. Yeah. It really
doesn't make a whole lot. Itmakes pretty much no sense in my
mind when you have 1 service.
Cameron (14:40):
No. No. But yeah. Like, so I I had always felt like that
was not the way that I wanted topastor. Mhmm.
I wanna be with with my people.
Luke (14:52):
Yep.
Cameron (14:55):
I I think it's hard to make the argument that that's
not important. Yep. But I amalso I also recognize that if
you preach 2, 3, 4, 5, sometimestimes in a day or in a weekend
Mhmm. That your your ability tomeaningfully connect with people
(15:18):
actually diminishes if you wereto be with out in the
congregation Yeah. All 5 ofthose services before and after
Luke (15:27):
the Gosh. We would I would need a room if we did 3
services.
Cameron (15:30):
The Internet the interactions become more shallow
because you're more, like, zonedout, tired. You've Mhmm. Heard.
You know, like, you've been, youknow, in ministry to people and
with people and hear my heart.That's what I'm called to.
Luke (15:46):
Mhmm. That's
Cameron (15:46):
what I love. That's what I wanna do. Yep. There's
there's a comes a point at thethere comes a point in the day
where I'm like, I don't know ifI can do I don't know if I can
do even 1 more conversation. Andso, like, it, so I I have come
(16:10):
to value, not value, understand.
I've come to understand
Luke (16:15):
Yeah.
Cameron (16:15):
Churches that do have those. And, and, like, even,
like, when I said my need tojust get away for, like, 3
minutes of
Luke (16:26):
Mhmm.
Cameron (16:27):
Alone Yep. And grab a quick snack, granola bar, sip of
coffee, whatever. I kinda Iunderstand. And I guess if I
were, like, to be forced into,like, say, you know, a church
goes to 3 services, and then youreally do need that time in
(16:49):
between. Then what do you do?
But I would think that if yourchurch was big enough to go to 3
services
Luke (16:58):
Mhmm.
Cameron (16:59):
Or more, you're gonna have multiple pastors on staff
Luke (17:04):
Mhmm.
Cameron (17:05):
And that, you know, the those who are not in the role,
like, in a preaching role
Luke (17:10):
teaching
Cameron (17:11):
or doing it. Or leading or something like that Right. To
be with the people to make surethat they're being shepherded
well Right. And empatheticpresence Mhmm. For them for that
for that particular week.
So, I mean
Luke (17:26):
Yeah. Well, it reminds me when I was a student, I was at
like a conference and big namespeaker came in to talk. And I
remember being up, like, in thestudent section and we're
worshiping. And I just rememberseeing that speaker and they
just were like it's like,they're just not singing along
(17:48):
to the worship music. Like,they're just kind of, like,
they're either looking at theirnotes or they're just kind of
standing there, kind of flat,little expressionless.
And I just remember kind ofhaving a lot of judgment on
that. And it wasn't until Istarted, like, teaching
regularly that, like, I realizedhow much of a strain on my voice
(18:09):
sometimes teaching can be. Yep.And if you've got even just a
little bit, like, of, like,you're getting over a cold or
something, I was just like and Iremember thinking back and I'm
like, no. Like, there's beenSundays where I'm like, I can't
sing today because if I sing, Iwill lose all of my voice Mhmm.
(18:32):
And I won't have anything tophysically give of my voice when
I get up there. Mhmm. And soit's just small things like that
are really hard to really kindof take measure of and stock of
until you're in it. Yeah. Youknow, I think the biggest thing
(18:56):
when it comes to like thechurches having green rooms
thing is that like, you know, isis it being managed in such a
way that's creating this, like,celebrity culture.
Right. And, you know, inbecause, like, can there is
(19:20):
there maybe a purpose for that?Like, if you've got, like, say,
a worship team that's, like,doing 3 services.
Cameron (19:27):
Right.
Luke (19:28):
Are they expected to sit in on the pastor's sermon 3
times and like
Cameron (19:31):
I don't I don't expect the worship team to sit on mine
twice. So Not that good.
Luke (19:37):
Yeah. So, like, the question all you know, some of
that kind of the practicality ofwhat how you manage that does
come in, but also not wanting tojust create and borrow and make
this kind of like celebrityotherness culture that is
unhelpful Right. The way that wekinda do church.
Cameron (19:56):
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. We've, started this, we we're in
a new series.
Luke (20:03):
Mhmm.
Cameron (20:05):
And we're gonna be saying that a lot the second
half of the year because all ofour series sermon series for the
second half of the year arepretty short. Yeah. Like, 4
weeks is max. But we're in thisnew series that we, are that we
called asking for a friend. And,so I think we may have even
(20:26):
previewed that here.
Luke (20:27):
We did.
Cameron (20:28):
Yeah. Where you could, text in your the questions that
you had about faith, the bible,or spirituality, Christianity,
whatever.
Luke (20:38):
Yep.
Cameron (20:39):
And that we would work to we would collate all those.
We would decide, okay, what'sthe kinda, like, the best ones
to preach on and then took someother ones. I'm like, okay.
We'll we'll bring these otherones over into our Wednesday
night classes. And, so we'vebeen working through those.
I think we're gonna be going inthe week 3
Luke (21:01):
Yep. Of We're halfway done.
Cameron (21:03):
Both of those. How is that
Luke (21:07):
Cameron is having a very uncut reaction to that right
now.
Cameron (21:11):
I'm not prepared for the next sermon series, and it's
like it's like right around thecorner. Yeah. And, so, week 1,
pastor Luke preached about howdo we deal as Christians when we
experience doubt. Yep. What dowe do there?
And then last week I preached onthe, building or the building of
(21:36):
empathy in us and what empathyis and it's rootedness in the
gospel. And then this comingweek, I'm gonna be preaching on
I didn't even like to say I'mpreaching on this. It's a whole
thing for me right now. It's I'mdealing I'm I'm going through
(21:56):
some things, people. Okay?
I'm going through some things.But, preaching on, angels,
demons, Satan Mhmm. Withinscripture
Luke (22:11):
Yep.
Cameron (22:13):
In general. I don't even like to say that. Right.
Because because you you don'twanna preach about Satan. No.
We preach Jesus Christ and himcrucified. Right. Right. Jesus
Christ crucified. Like, like,it's we're g it's Jesus centric,
all of our preaching.
(22:33):
Yeah. Aim for it to be Jesuscentric. But, so I'll be
preaching on that in relation tothe lordship of Jesus. Yes.
Because that's the only way Ithat's the only way I would
consider doing it.
Luke (22:49):
Mhmm.
Cameron (22:51):
And then the following week, the very last week, you're
preaching the last of the sermon
Luke (22:58):
I am.
Cameron (22:59):
Which the title of that sermon or the topic of that
sermon
Luke (23:11):
is What do we do? Why did God allow evil into the world?
Cameron (23:14):
Yes. The problem of evil. Theodicy.
Luke (23:16):
Theodicy. Yes. Gotta I'm gonna try and ascertain God's
intention as to why there's evilinto the world.
Cameron (23:23):
Yeah. Right.
Luke (23:25):
It's own thing.
Cameron (23:28):
Yeah. For sure. You know, and there's been, you
know, there's very apologetic.And by apologetic, I mean the
discipline of apologetics. Mhmm.
There's, a pretty substantiallibrary, apologetic library
about that question in general,which tends to be on the more
(23:48):
intellectual side of, like, likehow can we make logical sense
of, prevalence of pain or evilor whatever.
Luke (24:00):
I think my favorite book on that topic is Keller's book,
Walking With Jesus Through Painand Suffering.
Cameron (24:08):
I've not read
Luke (24:08):
it. I think it's he does an overview of pretty much every
major theodicy and deconstructsit and tells you why it's wrong.
Okay. Typical killer. And thentells and then leaves you with
the a biblical biblicalexplanation for suffering, which
is that there's not much of anexplanation for suffering.
Cameron (24:27):
So Yeah. Well, that's, certainly is a deep topic. Yeah.
A deep topic. And, good luck.
Luke (24:43):
Thanks.
Cameron (24:45):
Yeah. I mean but right after that, we're going into a
sermon series on politics.
Luke (24:50):
So Everyone's favorite topic.
Cameron (24:53):
Mhmm. Yep. So, yeah. What have you how have you been
feeling about, like, well, 1,talk a little bit about, like,
the process of choosing some ofthose topics Yeah. And how,
like, you just talk about
Luke (25:15):
it a little. Yeah. Well, because, like, we got a bunch of
questions. And, you know, if ifwe took people's questions
verbatim, we wouldn't reallyalways come up with a sermon.
So, like, you know, so what wehave so we do sometimes is we
(25:36):
kinda look at the theme of someof the questions, maybe combine
a couple, kind of bring themtogether, and kinda say, like,
how do we turn this into 1 themeor topic that we think we can
preach on?
You know, I was talking withsomeone who I know is probably
gonna listen to this podcastepisode because they were asking
(25:57):
why we hadn't recorded in awhile. Mhmm. But, they were
asking, like, why did Jesus notwrite any of the books of the
Bible himself? Which, whichwhich but that's not that's
that's a pretty narrow questionMhmm. That wasn't I was like,
(26:18):
the and we talked a little bitabout that, and the answer being
is that we don't really know whyGod Jesus chose not to do that
other than he seemed fit to wantto involve the disciples and
Mhmm.
Wasn't his primary purpose.Yeah. So, and that's pretty much
the answer. I was like, that'syou know, it wouldn't make it's
(26:38):
not enough topic for a sermonnecessarily.
Cameron (26:41):
The answer to that question isn't necessarily
theological nor is it rooted inscripture itself.
Luke (26:46):
Mhmm.
Cameron (26:46):
You know, it's really a more cultural 1. Like, if I were
to answer that question, I wouldanswer it probably from the the
basis of the
Luke (26:52):
culture right now. Because, like, is there some
sort of like the expectation ofhow a rabbi taught and this
message was transmitted and all
Cameron (27:02):
of that. Right. And like, yeah, it's was still
primarily an oral culture.
Luke (27:08):
Mhmm.
Cameron (27:11):
Jesus was gone Mhmm. In heaven. Yep. Right. By the time
it was beginning to transitioninto a written culture.
Luke (27:24):
Yep.
Cameron (27:24):
Or at the very least, was beginning
Luke (27:26):
It was beginning to spread in such a way that it needed to
be written.
Cameron (27:28):
It needed to be written. Yep. Yep. And so it
could be circulated.
Luke (27:31):
Yep.
Cameron (27:33):
But, yeah. No. Like, you're right questions. There
are questions that are askedthat are not necessarily
preachable. Right.
Right. We can We
Luke (27:45):
can answer it or talk about it.
Cameron (27:47):
Yeah. Talk, teach. And so we have used Wednesday nights
as a way to do some of that.
Luke (27:54):
Yes. Yeah. So we try and formulate them into kind of a
more pithy general question.Mhmm. And then, and then we try
and do our best to thematicallycover that through the Bible.
Right? Try and find either aprimary singular or couple of
(28:17):
primary texts that deal withthat topic or idea, root our
primary exposition somewhere andthen cover that. You know, like
that's our, that's how we kindado it. You know? I think, we've
talked about this here, butsometimes people I don't know
that I don't I haven't hadanybody say this in a long time,
(28:37):
but, you know, people are like,oh, we only wanna hear
expositional preaching, andexpositional preaching, like,
can't be topical.
And I've always thought thatjust to be, it's like you can do
topical preaching and have it beexpositional. Mhmm. It's like I
Cameron (28:53):
just expositing several different tests.
Luke (28:57):
Yes. Together and having them interpret 1 another. Like,
that's that's stillexpositional. So just because
we're not going through, like, abook doesn't mean we're not
doing expositional preaching. Ithink we pretty much exclusively
do expositional.
Yeah. Like, because we're alwaysrooting it in the text.
Cameron (29:15):
So Yeah. I don't think that there really can be another
faithful or effective way ofpreaching than for it to be
expositional. Right. Even ifit's topical. Right.
Luke (29:25):
So yeah. So yeah. Well, that's how we kind of did that.
And yeah. Was that kind of thequestion you were So Yeah.
Kinda driving at?
Cameron (29:34):
Yeah. You might find that, like, oh, maybe you
submitted a question that didn'tmake make the list, so to speak,
and that wasn't like not all thequestions were bad. No. Or there
was wasn't it's not that thequestion was bad. It's just
that, like, sometimes we trywe're we're trying to lump
(29:55):
similar types of questionstogether to hit a wider base, or
it might just be that, like,it's probably be better for a
conversation or just a quickanswer.
And the whole sermon is notnecessary.
Luke (30:08):
Yeah. This or we put it into a Wednesday class. So like
this last week, we did. I taughton, what did I call it?
Contemporary issues with, like,sexuality.
Sexual issues. Yeah. Temporarysexual issues, trying to cover a
biblical sexual ethic. Thisweek, we'll talk about, what do
(30:30):
I do when a friend confesses sinto me? Which I think is gonna be
a fun topic.
Cameron (30:34):
Especially coming off the heels of empathy.
Luke (30:37):
For sure. And what's the what's the other 1? What's the
other class topic? I know whatthe last 1 is. What's the 1
before that That you'reteaching?
Cameron (30:50):
I don't know.
Luke (30:53):
Because we're doing 1 on Catholicism.
Cameron (30:56):
Catholicism was the last 1.
Luke (30:59):
Maybe that is the last 1.
Cameron (31:00):
No. Because no. It can't be. It is wait for it.
Drum roll.
Wait for it. The afterlife.
Luke (31:15):
Ah, yes. The
Cameron (31:16):
afterlife. Questions concerning Heaven, purgatory,
the rapture.
Luke (31:22):
Yes. So we get
Cameron (31:23):
because we got a lot of a lot of those types of
questions.
Luke (31:25):
Yep. Yeah. Yep. So kinda just lump that all in there
together.
Cameron (31:30):
Yep. Mhmm. Yeah. So that's kind of been life in a
nutshell.
Luke (31:37):
Yeah. That's a lot of that's a lot of topicals takes
more research and I think brainpower than getting our head
inside of a singular book of theBible and kind of following it,
following the through line.Because it's like, I'm sure for
(31:58):
your last 1 that you just did,how do we grow in our empathy?
There's not like a passage thatsays, you know, thus what
empathy is. Right.
Jesus Jesus said, this is whatempathy is, and this is how you
grow in it. Like, there's notext on that.
Cameron (32:16):
The word empathy doesn't even really exist In the
bible. In the new testament.Right.
Luke (32:21):
Yeah. So having to kind of walk through that in a larger
theological Mhmm. Sense. I'mcure I'm I wonder if people
would how do you do that? Like,how do if someone, like, wants
to learn about, like, what theBible has to say about a
particular topic, what do they
Cameron (32:39):
do? What should they do? What should what do you do?
What should they do? Like Yeah.
Almost always, I, almost alwaysif there is a topic, like, I the
first the the first thing that Iwould do would be to, do a quick
(33:03):
review of the gospels.
Luke (33:04):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:05):
Whether that would be just like in my own head or
whether I would actually skim orread the gospels to see if this
is an issue or a corollary issueto anything that Jesus either
talked about
Luke (33:18):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:19):
Experienced himself, dealt with, or that his ministry
represents. Yep. So what isfirst what is what is its
rootedness in the life of Jesus?
Luke (33:28):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:30):
And so it's that's similar to what I did with
empathy.
Luke (33:34):
Mhmm.
Cameron (33:34):
You know? Yeah. You have to, I think, have some some
type of understanding of whatthe actual like like, so since
empathy is not the word empathyis not in the scripture.
Luke (33:45):
Right. You've gotta extrapolate it out to a theme or
a concept.
Cameron (33:48):
Well, I had to have some type of idea of what
empathy even was first. Right.And so if if I'm using kind of
the working definition ofempathy of being like being
present with someone in themidst of their experiences,
whether positive or negative,hurting, broken, joy,
celebration, whatever, or beingpresent with someone. And then
(34:13):
so if you kinda go off of likethat as a working definition and
then you're like, alright. Well,the obvious question is, like,
was Jesus like, is that a thingthat is represented in the
ministry of Jesus?
Was he present in the life ofthe hurting and the broken? Holy
crap.
Luke (34:31):
Yeah. You know? Every chapter.
Cameron (34:32):
Every chapter. Every line. Right? Was he present in
the life of people who werejoyful or celebrating? Mhmm.
We yes. We have examples of thatas well. Mhmm. Like, okay. So
now we know it's rooted in thelife of Jesus.
What more now can we say aboutit? That's kinda how I went from
the from, like, was able tobecause it's not really
(34:55):
something that I, like, held asa strongly, like, had as a
strongly held belief before Iprepared the sermon Mhmm. Was
that the incarnation was anexample, like, a deeply
theological understanding ofempathy.
Luke (35:09):
Mhmm.
Cameron (35:09):
Right? That that God God came to be present with us.
Luke (35:13):
Yep.
Cameron (35:15):
And to save us from our sin, to be with be with us in
the hurt and brokenness of sinin our lives, to bring both his
presence and the power of JesusChrist, but also offer response
to that. Mhmm. Like, holy cow.Like, yeah, the incarnation is,
is empathy.
Luke (35:34):
Yep.
Cameron (35:37):
And they're not 1 of the same, but, like, it is an
example of empathy. And Yeah.And then you obviously see,
okay, what can you learn frommaybe a few examples of Jesus'
interaction with the hurting andbroken in scripture? Like, how
does he show up? What does hedo?
And so, like, in March chapter14 or no. I'm sorry. March
chapter 1, the story of theleper
Luke (35:58):
Yep.
Cameron (35:59):
Where we talked about the funny words.
Luke (36:02):
Yeah.
Cameron (36:05):
And, that word I read about in a commentary. Mhmm. So
it's not like I didn't know itwasn't my insight or anything
like that.
Luke (36:12):
You don't you're not a walking Greek lexicon, Cameron?
Cameron (36:15):
No. I'm not. But,
Luke (36:19):
And neither is most preachers.
Cameron (36:20):
No. Like, no. We're not, you know, we're not Greek
scholars or anything like that.
Luke (36:24):
Someone says, not every preacher, some preachers know
their Greek super well, butYeah. I would not say the
majority.
Cameron (36:31):
I know where to go
Luke (36:32):
Sure. To
Cameron (36:34):
to find out what the Greek says it is.
Luke (36:37):
And you can engage with that.
Cameron (36:38):
And I can agree. Yes. Yeah. Right. But I don't know
it, like, just by reading it.
Luke (36:42):
Yeah. You're I don't walk in and see you doing your Greek
flashcard.
Cameron (36:45):
No. No. But even that, like, taking just that 1 word or
that 1 that 1 phrase Mhmm. Andbeing able to discover where
else does it exist in the NewTestament. 12 times the New
Testament every single time.
It's translated either Jesus hadcompassion on them or Jesus was
indignant or Jesus was all ofthat. And really what it signify
(37:09):
what that word was, like, theauthor, the the ones using that
word were trying to communicatea, like, deep at his core, the
center of who he was. He feltthese things. He felt compassion
Yeah. For people.
And so and then there's justthings that we do as preachers
(37:31):
to, like, okay. This is what theword says.
Luke (37:36):
Mhmm.
Cameron (37:36):
It's clear that it's all here, but how now are we
bridging the gap between whatthe word says and what how Jesus
wants to use that through hisholy spirit in our lives? Mhmm.
Like, how do we how are wegetting from that point to the
next point?
Luke (37:54):
Right.
Cameron (37:54):
And so there's many many different things that we
can do there, many differentways that we can address that.
But what I chose for this pastweek was just to offer, like, 1
line prayers that people couldpray throughout the week to
develop more empathy. So that'sreally similar. So, like, I'm
we'll be preaching a series onforgiveness here in a few
(38:15):
months.
Luke (38:15):
Mhmm.
Cameron (38:16):
Even a few months. 2 months. 1 month.
Luke (38:20):
Less time than you think.
Cameron (38:21):
Yes. And the question is, well, where in the Bible
does it talk about forgiveness?What's the where's the
forgiveness section of theBible? There's not a forgiveness
section.
Luke (38:32):
Right.
Cameron (38:32):
Forgiveness is talked about a lot. Yes. Like Jesus,
Paul. Right? And and he talksabout it a ton.
Mhmm. But there's no 1 section.So you gotta kind of take each
of those sections and say,alright. Well, what is it trying
to communicate here? Mhmm.
You know, like, if I take theend of the Sermon on the Mount
where Jesus is talking about themeasure upon which you are
(38:54):
forgiven is measured the same asthe how much you forgive.
Luke (38:59):
Mhmm.
Cameron (39:00):
Right? And so take that take application from that
verse, and it becomes a sermonpoint. But then now then maybe
I'm jumping over to Paul. Youknow? And we're we're drawing
application from different fromdifferent parts of the of the
scripture.
So, you know, it topical andexpositional go hand in hand. I
(39:23):
don't I think it's unfair toseparate them all the time. Yep.
But, you know, if you're alayperson and you're like, okay.
What what if I want to use thesame example?
What if I wanna learn what theBible says about forgiveness?
Luke (39:42):
Mhmm.
Cameron (39:43):
Right? You know, I think you do have to be careful
about Internet tools.
Luke (39:49):
Mhmm.
Cameron (39:51):
But there are some reliable ones out there that we
can that I could recommend tosay where you could go in and
type in the search barforgiveness. Mhmm. And they're
generally gonna be really,really blue letter Bible is 1 I
use. Mhmm. Bible gateway is 1that I you have used before.
But, that's gonna give you notit's not gonna maybe flat out
(40:13):
tell you this is whatforgiveness is. But, like, if
you go toblueletterbible.comororg, 1
Luke (40:20):
of the
Cameron (40:20):
2, and you do a keyword search for forgiveness, it's
gonna list out every singlereference to the word
forgiveness in scripture, andthen then you have to do the
work. Yeah. Then you gotta digthrough those.
Luke (40:39):
Right. And And read around those verses.
Cameron (40:42):
Right. Yes. Yeah. Understand context and Mhmm.
Draw some application and asksome questions to people in the
faith.
You know? So it's that that'show I deal topically with
things. Yeah. You know, it's notreally magic. And sometimes you
(41:04):
get a topic and you're like,okay.
There is a very, very definitivestory in the gospels about this
topic.
Luke (41:13):
Yep. Sometimes that happens.
Cameron (41:15):
You know? Like, I already know that in the
forgiveness series, I'm gonnaI'm gonna teach on the parable
of the unmerciful servant. Mhmm.Easy. Yep.
I'm not easy, but, like Sure.It's just here. Right. Right? I
got it.
Right. That's a whole sermon forsure.
Luke (41:29):
Yep.
Cameron (41:29):
You know? And but others like empathy, like, maybe
you gotta think about it alittle bit more or politics. You
gotta think about it even alittle bit more. So you gotta
run through the scripture againand, like, how many times how
many times over the last almost20 years of ministry as a
preacher of the word have I readthe entire of the New Testament
(41:51):
just to to prepare for 1 sermon
Luke (41:56):
Yep.
Cameron (41:56):
Or 1 sermon series to make sure that I have mined the
well Mhmm. Of God's word. Yeah.And people are like, well, how
does it take how could itpossibly take you that many
hours to prepare 1 well, whenyou're reading the whole New
Testament in a week
Luke (42:16):
Yeah.
Cameron (42:17):
And then drawing out the application from it and
trying to sort through
Luke (42:21):
Mhmm. What
Cameron (42:21):
people need to hear and what the Lord wants to have
said, like, it could chew up alot of time really quick.
Luke (42:27):
Yeah. Well, and it's at least I've gotten better at
this, but it's still temptingsometimes in research and
reading to chase a red herring.
Cameron (42:38):
Mhmm.
Luke (42:39):
Like, my classic example of this was I was preaching in
Daniel. I think I was doingDaniel in the lion's den, and
there was some historicitydebate around who was king or
overseer when that was happeningand whether or not that was this
person or this person andwhether that person really
(43:00):
existed. And I came all read allthis really long historical text
and came to what I thought was avery good conclusion. And I
turned and asked somebody, Isaid, where should I put this in
my sermon you think?
Cameron (43:14):
You shouldn't.
Luke (43:14):
And they're like, why would you Yeah. Put that in your
sermon? Yeah. Like, literally no1 cares. I was just like, well,
I guess I spent so I've spenthours reading and researching
this.
Somebody should care because Icared. Right.
Cameron (43:30):
Yeah. How much would you say? Because that's an
interesting point because howmuch would if you had to if you
had to guess, it's probably anunfair question. Each sermon is
a little bit different. Yeah.
How much of your research hitsthe cutting room floor?
Luke (43:46):
Now much less than it used to because I'm much more
discerning in what I read. Iused to, because I was because
before I was writing sermons, Iwas writing research papers. I
was writing Bible papers. And soyou had to do your research. So
(44:06):
I'm grabbing the mostcomplicated textbooks I can get
and, like, commentary orsomething, you know, going
through them.
Now I like I open, you know, itit when I used to when I was
gonna do a exegetical paper orbiblical paper on a passage, I
would go and get, like, aminimum of 5 or 6 commentaries,
(44:29):
put them on the scanner, and I'dscan the pages, put them on a
PDF, and I'd read like all ofthem on all the sections. Now, I
may be open, like, usually openat least 2 commentaries, maybe
3, if it's like, if there'ssomething in the text that is
like kind of confusing. Mhmm.And they're usually I usually go
(44:50):
for the Zondervan, like,background, historical cultural
background commentary is usuallythe first 1 I open.
Cameron (45:03):
Mhmm.
Luke (45:04):
And then I usually grab, if I have it. And if I don't,
sometimes I buy it, the digitalversion of the new
international, the NIVapplication commentary, because
usually, it's 1 of the bettercommentaries and they summarize
the things instead of, you know?
Cameron (45:25):
Mhmm.
Luke (45:26):
And then maybe if I really need something, I'll go into 1
more more technical ones. That'spretty much it. Yeah. You know?
And so I, like, I I usually Iusually leave out pretty much
anything that has to do with,like, word, like, interpretation
(45:46):
when it comes into, like, whatdoes this word mean or
something?
I leave the conclusion in there,but I almost I very rarely,
unless it's like a word that isreally it's it's obviously
translated different indifferent translations where
people have a hard time kind ofgetting what this means in
English. I almost nevermentioned any kind of background
(46:08):
behind it. I just kinda preachit as it is. So I don't know,
maybe 30% of what I read justdoesn't hit. 30, 40% doesn't
make it into the sermon.
Mhmm. Sometimes less than that.Yeah. What about you?
Cameron (46:23):
It depends on the topic. Yeah.
Luke (46:27):
I
Cameron (46:27):
would say it's probably pretty accurate. Like, I'm
always, like, I I like to overprepare Yeah. As a, as a source
of comfort
Luke (46:42):
Mhmm.
Cameron (46:42):
And I don't wanna say confidence Yeah. In, like, the
grasp of the topic Yeah. Or theverse. Yep. You know, even if I
am not preaching a certain pointof the verse Mhmm.
I wanna know for the most parteverything
Luke (47:04):
Mhmm.
Cameron (47:04):
About it. Yeah. Because sometimes things do turn on a
dime Yeah. During a sermon, andyou do draw from. Yeah.
Something you learned in yourresearch or whatever. Doesn't
happen all the time. But Yeah.You usually, at that point,
you've kind of whittled down towhat are the most important
(47:27):
things. Because, like, the wholethe whole question about, like,
the king, who was the king inDaniel.
Luke (47:34):
And not even the whole thing in Daniel, just this 1
part of Daniel.
Cameron (47:38):
The the the question that I always walk away with is,
like, what what is actuallyhelpful for people? Right. Yep.
And and that's not the samething as to say, oh, you're just
preaching what people wannahear.
Luke (47:53):
No. No. It's certainly not doing that.
Cameron (47:54):
What they what is most helpful for people is sometimes
not exactly not what they want.They don't wanna hear it.
Luke (48:01):
Right.
Cameron (48:03):
And so if the if the name of the king has good
applicability to mycongregation, then I'm gonna
dive into that. Sure. But ifit's just gonna be if it's just
gonna show the diligence of myresearch, it's not about me.
Right? It's not about me.
(48:25):
So but that it is I think it ismaybe not important, but I I
would hope that people would Iwould hope that people would
honor the diligence of theirpastor
Luke (48:42):
Mhmm.
Cameron (48:43):
By understanding how much time we really do spend
preparing
Luke (48:50):
Yeah.
Cameron (48:51):
Messages from the Lord for them.
Luke (48:54):
Yeah.
Cameron (48:57):
And and that that would be evident Yeah. In the
preaching.
Luke (49:02):
I think the sermon I preached on spiritual warfare,
we struggle not against fleshand blood, but against prince
and principalities and so forth.And in end of Ephesians, I think
I probably left out 60% of whatI read.
Cameron (49:15):
There's a lot there. Yeah. There's a lot.
Luke (49:18):
Right
Cameron (49:19):
in that script.
Luke (49:19):
And it's such, it's kind of a it's not a super talked
about topic. Right. And so it'slike, I was, I think I got, I
think I had 3 books that weren'teven commentaries open. Yeah. In
addition to like the 4 or 5commentaries I was reading on
it.
Mhmm. I left out like 60% ofwhat I read on in preparing for
(49:43):
that 1, for sure.
Cameron (49:44):
How helpful do you find, you got time. How helpful
do you find, listening to otherpreachers preach the same text?
Luke (49:59):
When I was younger and I was brand new at preaching,
before I even really knew what Iwas doing, I was preaching at
youth group. I would do thatwould be a significant portion
of my study, because I wouldlisten to other trusted
preachers I kinda like reliedupon and would kind of use them
to kinda inform me. Now, Ialmost never. I will do it on
(50:23):
occasion if it's a topic thatI'm really kind of like, I want
a little bit of confidence thatI'm coming to a, like, an agreed
upon. Mhmm.
Or if I'm really just, like, ifI'm, like, slammed.
Cameron (50:40):
Yeah.
Luke (50:40):
And I'm, like, I do not have the time to read more, but
I can throw 1 on as a podcast orsomething, and I can listen to
it a little bit. I will do thaton occasion. But I would say
that now, I almost never listento a sermon on a topic or a
passage before I preach it.Mhmm. Because it usually, and I
(51:02):
don't, and if I do, I don't likeit.
It's It's never my first stepNo. Or second or third. It's
I've usually got, like, myoutline. Yep. I've got like a
general sense of my main ideaand my general gist of an
outline before I ever listen toa sermon because it's too easy
(51:23):
to just- Take it.
Take it, even unintentionally,and pull what they did and form
it into your own. So I like mostof my stuff to be kinda done.
And then if I listen to asermon, it's mostly to just try
and like, maybe I'll glean aquote or just a bit of an
(51:43):
affirmation that, like, alright,I've thought through this text.
Yes. I'm usually listening tosomebody who is also, like like,
I've been listening to a littlebit to John Tyson because that
man does his research.
Cameron (51:55):
He's very well read.
Luke (51:56):
Very well read. And I'm just like, good grief, man.
Cameron (52:01):
I still don't know how they do it.
Luke (52:02):
Yeah. Don't know how they do it. So
Cameron (52:04):
Actually, I do know how John does it because he actually
talked about it once. How doeshe do it? You're not gonna like
the answer. Fine.
Luke (52:13):
Do you have researchers?
Cameron (52:14):
No. Okay. No. He, he says he has he answered this
question. He said, he's like,it's not this is a personal
value and a personal conviction.
It's not for everyone else.
Luke (52:27):
Mhmm.
Cameron (52:27):
I know that it is for me. It's what the Lord has
called me to. But he essentiallysaid, like, we I have I have
spent significant seasons of mylife, telling my wife and my
family that, like, don't ask meto watch a Netflix series with
you. Don't ask me to, like wewon't be watching like, not
going out to movies. I'm notwatching Netflix at the end of
(52:51):
the day.
I'm not, like, involved in a lotof extracurricular, like,
things. He was like, I like I gohe didn't say it like this. He
is much more Australian aboutthe way that he said it. But,
essentially, like, he has, like,he he commits every bit of brain
(53:16):
power that he has towardsdigesting material in order to
preach.
Luke (53:22):
I mean, power to them.
Cameron (53:24):
Yeah. So, like, when I'm laying in bed with Netflix
on, scrolling my phone in theTyson household, He's sitting in
his chair reading Augustine.
Luke (53:36):
Yeah. I mean, power to him.
Cameron (53:40):
I love it. I I love it. Yeah. I I feel a little
convicted towards that. Yeah.
I it's hard for me to say Idon't have the discipline, but I
don't have the discipline forit. Or maybe it's like the I
don't have the heart. I don't,like, I had not been given a
heart like a burden, like hehas.
Luke (54:02):
I I don't have the brain power for it. Yeah. I shut down.
I I like, this is something I'veactually, like, really struggled
with is that, like, I only haveso many hours of active brain
power in me any given day.
Cameron (54:16):
Yeah.
Luke (54:18):
And when I hit my limit, I'm pretty shot. Yep. Like, and
sometimes you see this if youcome up to me after, like,
church on Sunday, and I looklike a deer in headlights, it's
because I am. Like I might beshot. I might be at like pretty
much maxed out.
And it doesn't mean I can't giveanything, but I'm certainly not
reading Augustine's confessionsafter that.
Cameron (54:40):
Yeah. I've been reading more
Luke (54:44):
Mhmm.
Cameron (54:45):
At night, especially at night.
Luke (54:47):
Mhmm.
Cameron (54:48):
After kids go to bed. Yeah. But even then, it's like,
I don't I can't do hours.
Luke (54:55):
Mm-mm.
Cameron (54:56):
Like, I I maybe get, like, a half hour to an hour
Luke (54:58):
Yep.
Cameron (54:59):
Of before, like, I'm I mean, I usually get up to, like,
4 and 5 to do my workout. And soby the time 9 o'clock rolls
around Yeah. I'm, like, lookingto go to sleep. Yep. And so I
don't have a whole lot of timeYeah.
To do that. I really wish I wasbetter at
Luke (55:24):
it. Yeah.
Cameron (55:27):
And, you know, I can hear my inner coach tell me
right now Mhmm. Like, it's not amotivation thing. It's not even
an energy thing. It's adiscipline thing. Yeah.
Because I tell my students that.Yeah. Tell the athletes that I
coach that. Like, no. It's likeyou know, getting up, everyone's
like, well, how are you somotivated to get up in the
morning and go work out?
(55:48):
I'm not motivated.
Luke (55:50):
Right. It's it's not because if you do it only when
you're motivated, you're gonnado it twice.
Cameron (55:55):
Yeah. Ever. You're never gonna do it. Right. I'm
I'm not motivated.
I'm disciplined. Yeah. Like,there's there's something else
in me Yeah. That drives me to dothat. That's my must.
Yeah.
Luke (56:05):
Yeah. No. If, like, III can hear that. I I if I was to,
like, try and take stock of theempty time
Cameron (56:10):
Mhmm.
Luke (56:11):
In my life and, like, limit my phone, which I have
gotten much better. I probablytalk about how much I'm on my
phone way too much publicly.People are gonna think I'm like
a screen addict or something.But it is true. But it is true.
Cameron (56:25):
Every single time someone says they don't have
time for that, I ask them tocheck their screen time app.
Luke (56:31):
Yeah. My screen time was up the last, like, 2 weeks. I'm
like, I gotta yep. Gotta getthat down. I don't wanna so,
like, I'm going I'm at leastreading fiction when I get into
bed at night now.
You know? So but, just to closethe circle, what do you what
what does your prep look likewith sermons or non sermons?
Cameron (56:52):
It's very similar to yours. Yeah. They're, usually, I
want usually, I will go to asermon after mine is complete to
just get confirmation that I amapproaching the scripture
correctly.
Luke (57:06):
Mhmm.
Cameron (57:06):
Or that not even confirmation that I'm
approaching the scripturecorrectly.
Luke (57:11):
Mhmm.
Cameron (57:12):
But that, like, you know, sometimes, like, you say
your preacher's scripture, like,that's, like, 10 verses long.
Yep. And there's 3 or 4 topicsthat you could take Yep. Out of
that. And sometimes I just wannasee, like, am I approaching this
(57:34):
in a way that's, like, faithful,helpful Yep.
Preachable, hearing the lord onit
Luke (57:42):
Yeah.
Cameron (57:43):
And have I already done the work and not asking some
other guy to do the work for meso that I can just take it and
use it. Mhmm. But, you know andthen sometimes I like to go
honestly, sometimes I like to goand listen to guys that I know
I'm not necessarily gonna agreewith to see whether or not I'm
(58:06):
just preaching my bias Yeah. OrLike
Luke (58:13):
listen to somebody else try and preach it a different
way.
Cameron (58:17):
And And maybe not even with a different way, but, like,
in a different spirit. You know?Mhmm. Yeah. I I'm not saying
this pejoratively about him atall.
I don't mean this in a negativesense to to John MacArthur.
Luke (58:28):
Sure.
Cameron (58:28):
But he and I are different. We're different
preachers. Right. We'redifferent pastors.
Luke (58:33):
Right.
Cameron (58:33):
But there are several times, especially through
Ephesians
Luke (58:37):
Mhmm.
Cameron (58:37):
Where I went to where I like, how how is how is pastor
John preaching through this texthere?
Luke (58:44):
Mhmm. What
Cameron (58:45):
was his approach? Yeah. What was the spirit in which he
brought to it? Mhmm. How whatwas the pastoral heart that he
brought to the teaching?
Mhmm. Because the the, like, theactual content is really kind of
unarguable. Right. What was thepastoral heart that he brought
to the content? Just to kind of,like, get a sense of it.
(59:08):
Yeah. And I don't really knowwhy other than like I felt like
I needed more. And I like yousaid, I didn't really have my
eyes could no longer stay opento read another commentary. Yep.
You know?
(59:29):
Or so yeah. Obviously, you know,we skipped over a a significant
amount of, like, the probablythe most significant portion of
sermon preparation is that thetime we spend in our knees in
prayer about something, which issignificant. Mhmm. But but I I
(59:57):
would hope that that would beself evident. Alright?
I would hope that that would be,like, the obvious foundation.
Luke (01:00:04):
Yep. And
Cameron (01:00:05):
then then we add the preparation to it as well. Yeah.
So
Luke (01:00:10):
but Yep.
Cameron (01:00:11):
So don't hear that as saying that we never pray. But
Right. Right.
Luke (01:00:14):
Yes.
Cameron (01:00:16):
Well, welcome back. Yep. Thanks for listening in.
Sorry we've been, absent for afew weeks. We it's not our
intent to do this or to do itregularly or often.
Luke (01:00:27):
Yeah.
Cameron (01:00:28):
Be absent that long.
Luke (01:00:29):
Nope. It's just
Cameron (01:00:30):
the longest break that we've had in a year Very much. A
half of doing this.
Luke (01:00:34):
Yeah. And very much an unintentional 1. So
Cameron (01:00:37):
Yeah. And there's several times over the next
couple of weeks where nextcouple of months actually where
we're gonna be you're gonna begone or I'm gonna be gone or
we're both gonna be gone or, youknow, we're gonna be traveling
or whatever. So try and keep itas regular as we can and Yep. We
stack a cool maybe stack acouple of recordings up in the
road so that we can get over to.Thanks for listening, and, we'll
(01:01:01):
catch you
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