Reflections: A Theology of Space & Other Lessons

Pastor Cameron and Luke reflect on 2024. There were a lot of changes and ministry shifts over the year. They reflect on what they have learned, and how that impacts how they think about the future. 

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (04:28) - Service Expansion Insights
• (06:12) - Capacity Conversations
• (12:18) - Live Streaming Decisions
• (16:59) - Food Truck Ministry Impact
• (25:53) - Addressing Community Needs
• (31:32) - Future of the Food Truck
• (35:49) - The Role of Space
• (45:35) - Architectural Reflections
• (51:43) - Reading Year in Review
• (01:04:38) - Season Break Announcement

Episode Transcript

Luke (00:05):
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. I am

Cameron (00:10):
pastor Gary.

Luke (00:11):
And this is the Uncut podcast where we have honest,
uncut conversation about days offire. Well, we are at the time
of the release of thisrecording, we're past Christmas.
Mhmm. And we're getting ready.We're looking towards the new
year.
Mhmm. So, we thought we would, Idon't know, do sort of a a wrap

(00:36):
up of our years thingreflections on on leadership and
ministry and, things that maybewe've learned kind of be a kind
of a a dump of, thoughts andlessons from the year or
something like that.

Cameron (00:55):
Something like that. Some some kind of year end some
kind of year end, recap orwhatever. Mhmm. Whether it's
maybe a book we read, books weread, experiences we had. Yep.
I Think we went through.

Luke (01:09):
Mhmm. Cameron, did you have any ideas of where we
should start?

Cameron (01:13):
Well, I was trying to think of, like, what would be
what were some of the most moresignificant things that or
impact impactful or, like,shifting culture shifting,
paradigm shifting

Luke (01:29):
Mhmm.

Cameron (01:29):
Things that have happened here at Conduit in the
past year. Yeah. And there are anumber, not in really any
particular order, but I thinkone of the bigger ones would be
the addition of a secondservice.

Luke (01:49):
Yeah. That was like a big ministry shift this year.

Cameron (01:54):
Yeah. And, you know, we started kinda making plans for
that probably this time lastyear.

Luke (02:02):
In earnest? Yeah.

Cameron (02:04):
Yeah. Kind of recalibrating the space
downstairs here to to kinda fitthe vision, kinda see what the
or, like, discover what thevision was gonna be and how we
wanted it to maybe change or bedifferent than than what we were
already doing or and why we weredoing it, casting vision for why

(02:24):
we were doing it, and thenlaunched that out in May 0,
which it still seems pretty new,even though for the majority of
the year, we did it.

Luke (02:40):
Yeah. Well, it was like, like, I remember doing that. It
was a, we ended up launching atwhat, just after Easter?

Cameron (02:50):
Yeah. Right. May,.

Luke (02:52):
0 May 0. Yeah. And it was kind of, it was a bit of a
scramble. At least it felt likeit, to kind of go from, you
know, one single service andthen renovating a space for it.
That was like the other thingtoo, is that we had to get the
space ready.
So it was more than it was thepeople leadership leading up to

(03:13):
it, but then it was also thelogistical and practical
leadership of getting that spaceready for a second space.

Cameron (03:20):
Yeah. Yeah. And then came the, like, the energy shift
that happens

Luke (03:29):
Mhmm.

Cameron (03:30):
In the people who are kind of making the services
happen or making Sunday morninghappen. You know, you, me, our
worship leader, director ofoperations, conduit kids
volunteers, hospitality people,parking volunteers, like, just
all of the various people thatgonna make the thing go on

(03:52):
Sunday. And, wondering what wasgonna come of it and if it was
gonna work or if it was notgonna work. And when I say work,
I mean, if it was gonna be if itwas going to take some of the
capacity pressure

Luke (04:10):
Mhmm.

Cameron (04:10):
Off of the the just the one service that we had prior.
And, I don't know. I thinkreflecting back on that and
seeing

Luke (04:25):
if

Cameron (04:25):
it kinda met that goal, I would say that I think it did.
Yeah. It did relieve some ofthat

Luke (04:30):
Mhmm.

Cameron (04:31):
Capacity pressure at that time. And, you know, now
here we are just seven monthsseven months into that endeavor,
and we're maybe startingconversations about, well, what
now? Because capacities for bothservices are getting a little, a

(04:59):
little full. Yep. They'reclimbing they're climbing the
percentage ladder Mhmm.
Of when a switch needs to bemade or a change needs to be
needs to be made, which I kindahave felt maybe a little in
like, anecdotally felt like,man, we're full

Luke (05:20):
still. Yeah.

Cameron (05:21):
But you kinda brought the conversation out into the
open last night in a leadershipteam meeting. Like, hey. We
probably should be thinkingabout what we do when or if. So.
Yeah.

Luke (05:33):
That's yeah. And that's the thing that was I I think
that one, I think that's a signthat the second service was
quote unquote a success. Howeveryou wanna kind of talk about it.
Is it?

Cameron (05:45):
We could say it was the right thing to do.

Luke (05:46):
Yeah. It was the right thing to do. It it created more
space for people who wanted toshow up, but maybe were feeling
a little squeezed out just evenphysically, you know, and so
that that's what happened. Mhmm.And that's a great thing.
But now we just have to figureout like, okay, do we what do we

(06:08):
do now? Is there something we donow? Is there yeah.

Cameron (06:13):
Right. Right. Yeah. How do you feel, how do you feel
emotionally about that?

Luke (06:23):
About like having to do something else again? I mean,
I'm a sucker for new things.Mhmm. I'm mister, like, yes. My,
my, my area of growth has beenin consistency and finishing.
Mhmm. So I love to start a newthing or, re envision something

(06:45):
like that's just kind of thespace that I kind of like to be
in sometimes. So the idea oflike, okay, what's next. Yeah.
Does not necessarily, Yeah.
Makes gives me energy, I think,more than it does than it kinda
drains me a little bit.

Cameron (07:05):
Mhmm.

Luke (07:07):
And I I think it was also just, you know, we had talked
when we had even brought that tothe board and stuff. We were
using the language of, like,this probably will be a stop gap
to some degree. Yeah.

Cameron (07:19):
That's what we always kind of imagined it would be.

Luke (07:21):
Yeah. I think we didn't know how long that stop gap
would be, and we're still notsure exactly. Like Yeah. You
know, is this is this somethingthat we sit on for a little bit?
We kind of maybe get some morebehind the scenes things kind
of, flowing in a betterdirection before we tackle
again, what physical capacityspace is.

(07:46):
But yeah, I'm kind of, you know,I'm. I generally yeah. I think
I'm generally excited about it.Mhmm. You know?
Yeah.

Cameron (07:58):
Yeah. My feelings about it kinda caught me off guard.
Like, because I I everythinglogically tells me, like, this,
you know, this is an excitingthing. It is. It is.
It's an exciting thing, but I Iwas like, oh, yeah. Right.

Luke (08:15):
It was a big push.

Cameron (08:16):
We do gotta we do gotta now I I just I didn't expect to
have to have this conversationor be thinking about it seven
months after Yeah. Doing it thefirst time. Mhmm. So I was
excited about the future. Alittle nervous about it.

(08:37):
Scared. Yeah. Not in like a Idon't think in like a, like, sin
sinfully fearful way.

Luke (08:48):
Mhmm.

Cameron (08:48):
But just like a, you know, what does it mean for my
leadership? What does it meanfor your leadership? What does
it just mean for just goingforward? Yeah. Well, a little
bit of fear of the unknown.

Luke (09:03):
Definitely. Yeah. It's it's, Well, because like leading
people even through that, the Sto change the two services was
its own, because it's not justthe physical space. It's the,
like, emotional leadership ofit.

Cameron (09:24):
It's getting people on board. Mhmm. Getting people on
board and getting them to followand

Luke (09:29):
Yeah.

Cameron (09:30):
Inspiring them to follow, getting them to see the
reasons why we're doing it. Andand then making a decision about
what we wanna be and who wewanna be as a church going
forward

Luke (09:43):
in

Cameron (09:43):
terms of, like, number of services or capacity or
building size versus program.Like so, excited about it. I
think it's great. Love to be apart of what God is doing, and
how, like, despite my bestefforts, he's growing his

(10:04):
church. And that that's thething that, like, overcomes any
bit of fear that there may beMhmm.
About what's next. So Yeah. So,yeah, I thought that that was
probably the the addition ofanother service and all that

(10:27):
that entailed and then produceis producing and all of the, I
guess, like, the domino effectof that is probably one of the
bigger things that I thinkcharted the course for us for
the past year.

Luke (10:45):
Well, you know, what I think is like an interesting
decision that, that we ended upmaking this year that we weren't
that we talked about here on thepodcast before and we've
wrestled with, before, but kindof seems almost counterintuitive
to the decision to go to twoservices was our decision to

(11:06):
stop live streaming ourservices. So we went to two
services and we were livestreaming our our second
service, our 11:00 service, onFacebook and all the places,
YouTube. And, we made thedecision to pull the plug on
that. Not that we're we're stillrecording our sermons and things

(11:28):
like that and putting those out.But we're not doing it live
anymore.
As a kind of like a alternativeto being in person. Yep. So,
yeah, that was kind of aninteresting, like, it makes a
lot of sense to us inside, but Iwould wonder if looking from the

(11:49):
outside in, that would seem likea counterintuitive decision. If
we're saying we're strugglingwith capacity and space and we
went to two services, but thenwe decided to cut our
livestream.

Cameron (11:59):
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I don't know. Maybe
maybe people outside of the thebuilding understand why we did
that. Maybe not.
I I get the sense that theyprobably don't because it's just
so normal now.

Luke (12:19):
Well, yeah. You know, it used to be the standard back
when I was a kid. Right? Youknow, was, well, you gotta have
a tape ministry.

Cameron (12:28):
Mhmm.

Luke (12:29):
Right?

Cameron (12:29):
Mhmm.

Luke (12:29):
If you've been around church long enough, you
remember, you know, they wouldrecord onto a cassette the
sermon, and then they duplicatethose cassettes right after
service, and people could grab acassette to keep or to Mhmm.
Bring it back each week andrelisten or share with a friend
a sermon. Later, that was doneover into CDs.

Cameron (12:49):
I have some of the CD recordings of my first sermons.

Luke (12:52):
So CD recordings.

Cameron (12:54):
I have a VHS Yeah. Recording of my first service as
a pastor.

Luke (12:59):
Yep. And then it was like, and then I think pre COVID, the
standard was you had at least anaudio podcast of your sermon.
That was like the minimum barfor, like, kind of what you kind
of did with your service stuff.And then if you were a, you

(13:19):
know, a big church, you, youhad, you were live streaming and
maybe you did video recording,but then, I think COVID like
COVID moved that standardbecause all of a sudden nobody
could meet in person. So all ofa sudden churches everywhere
bought some sort of video cameraand did some sort of live

(13:41):
streaming and recording.
And then the shadow of COVIDstill looms pretty big in a lot
of people's minds. And, youknow, like, well, what if we
ever get shut down again orlocked down and we need to live
stream again and the convenienceof all of it. So it just moved
everything and really, I think,kinda unified a lot of the

(14:05):
production of the church in asense. Yeah. Like, everybody's
doing that now.

Cameron (14:09):
Yeah. Even really small churches. Yeah. You know, you'd
see people setting up setting upiPhones or something like that
and just live streaming rightfrom their phones. And I think a
lot of people thought maybestill think that, you know, I
have an opinion or I'm, like,really down on churches who do
that, like, look down the nose.

(14:32):
Mhmm. But that's not that's gotnothing to do with it at all. I
just think for who we want tobe, who conduit wants to be, and
what we want the direction thatwe want to lead our people, that
it's more important for us toencourage physical presence Yep.

(14:56):
In the community of faith thanit is a, you know, voyeurship.

Luke (15:01):
Mhmm.

Cameron (15:03):
Or maybe that's maybe too pejorative of a term,
viewership. Consumer. Cons yeah.Just Yeah. Just to view it.
Right. Just to view the content.And so we decided that not as a
punishment to anyone who wasjust simply viewing

Luke (15:23):
Right.

Cameron (15:24):
What we were putting out, but it was us saying, hey,
we so strongly believe that thechurch should be a place where
people gather with people. Yeah.Learn to love one another, learn

(15:45):
to love the Lord more greatlyMhmm. That we wanna take away
all all reasonable opportunitiesfor there to be confusion about
what it means to be a part ofconduit Yep. Or the church.

(16:06):
So I I I still stand by thatdecision, and I think it was the
right decision

Luke (16:13):
Mhmm.

Cameron (16:13):
For us.

Luke (16:14):
I

Cameron (16:14):
don't know if there's another pandemic or another
situation where everything hasto be shut down. And

Luke (16:21):
I mean, we'll tackle it as as we go.

Cameron (16:23):
Right. We'll address that or think about that as it
comes. But as it stands rightnow, I think we made the right
decision and can stand by that.But that, yeah, that was a
pretty big, that was a prettybig thing too.

Luke (16:35):
Yeah. I so I was interestingly enough, I was
reading a book when we werekinda thinking about making that
decision. I didn't really end upbecause it wasn't part of wasn't
necessary, but this was justsome some of my reading. I was
reading a book called AnalogChurch, which is kind of a just
a exploration of whattechnology's implications are in

(16:59):
church.

Cameron (16:59):
Mhmm.

Luke (17:00):
I didn't finish the whole thing because this year was
kinda marked by a lot of, like,skipping and dipping. I'd pick
up a book, I'd read a littlebit, and move on to something
else. But he the author bringsforward these four kind of ideas
that were from, someone called,McLuhan McLaughlin. He's not

(17:25):
super well known. Well, he'swell known now because of
because of these four laws of,like, media or technology that
he kinda proposed.
People were kind of looking backat him and saying, wow, he
really called something outthere. But, he wasn't terribly
popular, I think, when he wasaround. But he had these four

(17:46):
questions that you have to askwhen it comes to any type of
media or technology. Says, whatdoes it enhance, improve, or
make possible? What does it pushaside or make obsolete?
What does it retrieve that waspreviously pushed aside or made
obsolete? And then what does itturn into when pushed to an

(18:09):
extreme? Mhmm. So those are thequestions that you're meant to
ask. Like, we could think aboutthese with the phone.
Right? So what did the phone do?It kind of, made instantaneous
connection and communication,like, possible to smartphone.
Right? What did it kind of pushaside, make obsolete?

(18:30):
What made pay phones, pagers,like a gazillion things. Right?
Ultimately, and then, you know,what does it kind of, retrieve
or what is it like? What does itretrieve that previously pushed
aside or made obsolete it? Youknow, in a lot of ways, it

(18:55):
retrieves, like, right now,voice messages are coming back
and things like that.
We used to people used to usetheir answering machines and
things like that. But, and thenwhat does it do when it's pushed
to its extreme while the cellphone, right, was meant to
connect people? But what's themost decry of, like, parents and

(19:18):
people all over the place isthat the cell phone is a source
of? Disconnection.Disconnection.
Mhmm. Right. Mhmm. And we can dothe same kind of questions and
thoughts about, you know, whatdoes live streaming do? Well, it
makes people able to attend andnot be in person.
And like, it's, it's a, youknow, greater connection and

(19:40):
stuff, all of that. It, but whatdoes it do when it pushes itself
to the extreme? Or what does itmake obsolete?

Cameron (19:49):
Community.

Luke (19:50):
Right. It, you know

Cameron (19:53):
At least like face to face community.

Luke (19:54):
Face to face community. Right. And so now I am more
likely to recognize somebody'susername than their face.

Cameron (20:03):
Alright.

Luke (20:04):
And that that's when it's pushed to an extreme it's
extreme. And we we're livestreaming is still relatively
new in the church world, and wewon't know what the long term
effects of that are until we'veseen a generation or two grow up
on, like, what does it mean forsomeone who's growing up to
sometimes go to church and thensometimes go to church on their

(20:27):
couch with their family, youknow? So, oh, well today we're
just running a little behind.We'll just live stream it. And,
like, what's that what does thatform in a young kid's mind or
someone's mind when they'regrowing up in a church that's
even just kind of a hybrid senselike that.
Right. And how does that impacttheir relationship with the

(20:47):
church in the future? Right. Andwhat does that sacrifice? Yep.
So that technology always canaccomplish really great things,
but it also comes with a cost.Yep. And we have to measure the
cost. And so

Cameron (21:03):
Yeah. Yeah. The the world is is always forming us.

Luke (21:09):
Mhmm.

Cameron (21:10):
And the ways of the world we're we're formed in the
ways of the world and by thetools of the world. Yeah. And
that technology is such a toolof the world that it has begun
to form a whole culture,sometimes even the church
culture

Luke (21:27):
Mhmm.

Cameron (21:28):
In a way that well, I would say that, like, our
discernment or my discernment ofit here is that the is that it
was be it's beginning to form aculture of church life and
community life in a way thatseparates us from what was meant

(21:50):
to, like, bring us together,universal connectivity,
information, convenience, all inone functionality,
supercomputer, and the palm ofyour hand right in the pocket of
your pants has actually createda lot of disconnection person to

(22:12):
person.

Luke (22:12):
Mhmm.

Cameron (22:13):
And so felt like the church has a responsibility, to
be counterformational.

Luke (22:21):
Mhmm.

Cameron (22:24):
And, ultimately, the reason why we made that that
decision. Yeah.

Luke (22:28):
So Mhmm.

Cameron (22:31):
So, yeah, live streaming or the decision to
stop live streaming definitelywas a big part of what we a
decision that we made this year.

Luke (22:40):
Mhmm.

Cameron (22:42):
And, I think we'll continue to make year for year.
We'll see. Like you said, it itwill depend on what happens in
the world, whether or not weever revisit that conversation.

Luke (22:57):
Yeah. I don't think it's we tip we try not to create,
like, sacred cows Mhmm. I thinkis the way we kinda operate
here. We're not like, oh, theway we are doing things right
now is the only way to do it.And Yeah.
We try not to, we try not topigeonhole ourselves there.
Because life is adaptable andthere could be absolutely a

(23:21):
scenario where we're just like,we feel like the right thing
right now is to turn a cameraback on. Right? And for whatever
reason and for whatever periodof time.

Cameron (23:29):
I mean, we're doing it right now.

Luke (23:31):
Right. We're gonna continue to leverage cameras and
media and things like that, butjust how we do it is also
something that we're gonna.Right. We're maybe not gonna say
yes to everything that isavailable to us.

Cameron (23:46):
Mhmm. What else from this year?

Luke (23:52):
As far as, like, leadership decisions we made?

Cameron (23:54):
Or Yeah. Or just, like, I don't know, reflections,
things that were surprising.I'll I'll tell you, like, one of
the things that I that surprisedme in terms of, like, that I was
not expecting, I should say, isMhmm. Is the work that the food
truck has been doing Yeah. Andthe attention that it's brought

(24:18):
to the ministry.
Yep. And what that

Luke (24:23):
not anticipated.

Cameron (24:24):
No. We didn't anticipate that. We didn't plan
that. We know just by experienceworking in the community that
the hunger problem is great inChautauqua County. So I'm not
surprised that it's beingutilized a lot, but I am

(24:48):
surprised at the largercommunity or regional attention
that that ministry in particularhas gotten.
Yep. And that is, I think, partand parcel to just the cultural

(25:10):
shift or cultural reality of thecity that we live in, the region
that we live in. Yeah. Firstbeing that there is a
homelessness crisis problemconversation going on in our
community Yep. In particular inthe last calendar year, but in

(25:30):
the more in a more significantway, the food insecurity problem
in Straka County and

Luke (25:39):
in the

Cameron (25:39):
region that has kind of pointed to is a is a is a
significant reason why Yeah. Thefood truck's getting utilized so
heavily.

Luke (25:53):
Yeah. I remember you were having a conversation with
someone and you were like, we'renot, like, experts or, like,
when we wouldn't considerourselves as doing something
massively significant to addresshomelessness and all of this.
And they were like, but you'repretty much one of the few that
are. And so that by de factomakes your voice and what we're

(26:17):
doing important and register.And I think that just speaks to
the gap.

Cameron (26:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't think we ever
set out to be, a feedingministry to the homeless.

Luke (26:35):
No. That wasn't the point.

Cameron (26:37):
Where we were what we were trying to do.

Luke (26:38):
Right. Because we do it came out of we do the
Thanksgiving giveaway everyyear. We just did that. I'll
hear a little bit ago atThanksgiving. Whole heart of
that has always been in the wayyou've always talked about it.
We've always talked about it is,like, this is a meal for those
who would like it. Like, wedon't ask that anybody

(26:59):
demonstrate any level of needwhere they come with some
paperwork or anything like that.Mhmm. We're just like, it's for
anyone who wants to takeadvantage and have a
Thanksgiving meal. And there wego.
Yep. And, you know, obviouslythat, the people who take care
of that, or who take advantageof that, like, often need that

(27:21):
or need a little bit of extrahelp or something like that, or
wanna take advantage of that forjust to relieve even just some
strain on everything that'shappening around Thanksgiving.
But it's not directed towardshomelessness or poverty. It's
directed towards people. People.
Right? That's that's we don'twanna we don't want people to be

(27:44):
stigmatized or to be classifiedor something like that. It's
just feeding people with openarms and love and grace. You
know? Yeah.
And so the it was past the thispast not 2024, but that would
have been There was a group ofpeople who were like, this is

(28:05):
fantastic. We have a food truck.We'd love to do more of this
kind of thing.

Cameron (28:09):
Mhmm.

Luke (28:10):
And you kind of made the decision to say, go for it.
Mhmm. You know, like, try try tokind of lead by letting go of
the reins a little bit and justsaid, you guys make it happen.
And they somehow did.

Cameron (28:25):
Yeah. They did in real in real significant ways, like,
from, like, 50 meals

Luke (28:30):
Mhmm.

Cameron (28:30):
In a week to, you know, three three three and a half,
three three hundred and fifty,between three hundred three
hundred and four hundred.

Luke (28:39):
Mhmm.

Cameron (28:41):
Hot meals every week. Big lift. Yeah. It's a big lift.
It's a big deal.
Financially, it's a big liftjust with people.

Luke (28:49):
Yeah. Because they're they're here Saturday morning
Yep. Usually cooking or preppingsomething.

Cameron (28:57):
Mhmm.

Luke (28:57):
And then they finish we finish for excuse me, first
service down here. And then thekitchen is prepping during
second service.

Cameron (29:05):
Mhmm.

Luke (29:06):
And then after church, they're loading it all up,
packaging it up. And then afterchurch, they drive out and they
hand out those meals.

Cameron (29:13):
Distribute it. Yeah. Yeah. So I did not expect that.
Yeah.
I think it's great.

Luke (29:20):
Mhmm.

Cameron (29:21):
Obviously, and encouraged about its future.
Although, I don't know, there'sa little bit of it for me that's
like, what is its future? Mhmm.Not that not because I I don't I

(29:42):
think I was talking to a group acouple weeks ago about the
difference between conduit'sdesire to meet acute needs Mhmm.
And to address systemicproblems.
Yeah. Those two are connected ina lot of ways. Mhmm. But, I

(30:05):
think that the church needs todo both. I think we need to have
a mind towards meeting acuteneeds.

Luke (30:13):
Mhmm.

Cameron (30:16):
But we also can have a mind. I think I think we have
the right spirit and mindsetthat we should be the people who
have a mind to be like, what arenow the systemic issues that are
creating the acute needs? Mhmm.Some of them are systemic. Some

(30:38):
of them are, not.
They're circumstantial.

Luke (30:43):
Right. Or generational. Or generational or cultural.

Cameron (30:47):
Yeah. Or we don't, you know, don't always know.

Luke (30:50):
Yeah.

Cameron (30:50):
But, we should can and should be trying to address both

Luke (30:56):
Mhmm.

Cameron (30:57):
I think. So I think the food truck very clearly is
always just gonna be onemechanism to meet the acute
need.

Luke (31:07):
Yeah.

Cameron (31:09):
You know, that particular sliver of ministry is
never gonna be the thing thatturns the tide systemically.

Luke (31:17):
Right.

Cameron (31:18):
But that doesn't mean that it's not important. And so
but there's also, like, a whatwhat is is is there a next step
for the food truck Mhmm. Or thefood truck ministry, or does it
remain like it is and justcontinue to function in the way

(31:41):
that it does? Yeah. I've oftenthought about the food truck's
nice because it's kinda likethis rolling signpost of, hey.
Here we are. Yep. But I've oftenwondered if something brick and

(32:01):
mortar

Luke (32:01):
Mhmm.

Cameron (32:02):
Would be, a good partner Yeah. To that, and would
love to do that. I would love Iwould love to have I I would
love to be able to say, well,02/25 maybe is the year of a

Luke (32:24):
Like a ministry center?

Cameron (32:26):
Community outreach, community ministry center. Mhmm.
Yeah. I could get really firedup about that Yeah. Really
quickly.
Yeah. And maybe maybe that's thecase and but but I think that's,
like, a ministry center that itgives a built in center to

(32:53):
address not just the acute, butnow some of the systemic. Yeah.
What's going on in our city?Mhmm.
What's going on with the people?Yeah. What is the what is the
gap? How can we begin toconstruct the bridge?

Luke (33:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Space is like, like, I think that's maybe a
theme that's running through ourconversation here is how
important spaces to what you'retrying to accomplish and what
you're doing. Like, because likethe way our church is set up,
it's set up for a very specificfunction. It's set up Sunday.

(33:30):
Sunday mornings. Right? We'vegot children's classrooms with
children's things anddecorations in them and things
like that. And we've made someadditions and chains and shifts
to our facility, but we're alsorecognizing that we can't ask
our facility here to do too manymore things because

Cameron (33:49):
Mhmm.

Luke (33:49):
Like, it's just limited to it.

Cameron (33:51):
Doesn't have anything else to give.

Luke (33:53):
No. Right. We're we're like, we can we can slap some,
more metaphorical paint on somethings and kind of clean it up
here a little bit and, fine tuneit. But Like,

Cameron (34:05):
as an example, for those of you who are maybe not
familiar with Conduit or havenever been here or whatever, we
we we currently have a shippingcontainer Yeah. Out in our
parking lot that we're utilizingas storage for an event that we
have coming up

Luke (34:21):
Yeah.

Cameron (34:21):
Simply because we don't have any space

Luke (34:26):
Yeah. To store things. Doing a toy drive, toy giveaway,
and people were bringing toys.And we did that last year, and
it was just like this movingpile of

Cameron (34:37):
Toys.

Luke (34:37):
Toys. Not Yeah. And It's overwhelming. Overwhelming. And
it started collecting in oneroom, and then they were like,
well, it won't fit in this room.
And then they moved it to adifferent room, and they're
like, well, it won't fit in thatroom. So they moved it to
another room, and it just, andit was, disruptive to,
children's ministry andeverything. And so we're just

(34:58):
like, how do we avoid that thisyear? Yeah.

Cameron (35:02):
So So, yeah, that have you I I think I've mentioned
this book title to you before.It was one that I had to read
in, grad school. It's calledtheology of the built
environment.

Luke (35:17):
No. But that sounds fascinating.

Cameron (35:19):
By I don't remember his first name, but the author's
last name is Gorringe, g o r r In g e, I think. And it was it
does center around, like, thethe premise of the the premise
of the whole work is, like, howdoes the built environment how
do our buildings and our spaceshow are they affected by our

(35:41):
theology and vice versa? How doour how do our spaces affect our
theology? How does our theologyaffect our spaces? Yeah.
And I I remember, I I think itwas like a it was like a
contemporary culture andtheology class Yeah. That I,

(36:01):
that we we were made to read itin. But I remember that being
like a concept at that time thatI had never really considered,
like, how physical spaces affectYeah. Theological beliefs or or
at least they represent orreflect theological beliefs.

(36:23):
Yep.
But then as you as you move pastthe surprise of like, oh, how
did I not think of that? Then itbecomes clear that most of like,
you think of big churches, biggothic churches

Luke (36:36):
Mhmm. Or

Cameron (36:36):
just churches in general. Yeah. Like, conduit is
really conduit's building isreally reflective of some of our
theological values, some of ourcore values.

Luke (36:44):
Right.

Cameron (36:47):
Large Catholic churches.

Luke (36:49):
Mhmm.

Cameron (36:51):
Tons of stained glass, big tall ceilings.

Luke (36:53):
Meant to draw you looking upward. Pipe organs. Right.
Like,

Cameron (36:57):
draw you into the majesty and the glory and the
awe and the wonder. Mhmm.

Luke (37:02):
Have you ever like, our our church has the ceiling
design of a boat. Have you everthought about the theological
implications of that?

Cameron (37:12):
No. Uh-uh. No. Not I haven't. But you're right.
It's like an upside down boat.

Luke (37:19):
Upside down boat, which was really popular, in church
design.

Cameron (37:24):
In the

Luke (37:26):
And so Mhmm. It's a kind of a nod to the most famous boat
in the bible, and that was ark.Right? It's this idea of, like,
the church being a vehicle ofsalvation into the world. And,
yeah, that's kind of that's wasreflective of.
You know?

Cameron (37:43):
But it's also, like, that whole thing is if we go
back to the first conversationthat we were having about how
many services we can have andhow many services we wanna have
and how big do we wanna get orwhatever

Luke (37:57):
Yeah.

Cameron (37:58):
That whole that whole conversation and then the
architecture of the building gohand in hand. Yeah. We we say
this a lot. People some somepeople it it wasn't really a
major con I wouldn't say that itwas a major conversation, but
there were a lot of people who,when we went to sue two
services, were like, well, whydon't we just build on?

Luke (38:20):
Right. Get a big loan, do a Right. Capital campaign.

Cameron (38:25):
Right. And if you were if you've ever been in Conduit's
Sanctuary, you know, it's verydistinctive in terms of its
shape and structure andwhatever. Yep. And so if we were
to build on to that sanctuary,we would have to just make it
longer Yeah. Unless we werewilling to completely tear the

(38:49):
arches down Right.
And make it wider because thosearches are specifically built
for that space. Yes. And wecouldn't you couldn't change the
architecture of that room bygoing wider. You would just have
to go longer. Right.

Luke (39:03):
Or you just would have a gazillion pillar pillars in your

Cameron (39:06):
Right.

Luke (39:06):
Yeah. It wouldn't make any sense.

Cameron (39:08):
And so it would just be like one big long tunnel.

Luke (39:11):
Mhmm.

Cameron (39:11):
And with the way that our even with the way that our
sanctuary is set up and our our,like, property Mhmm. We would
maybe be able to add 25, 30feet.

Luke (39:23):
Which is a a silly amount to add for the amount of money
it

Cameron (39:27):
would cost. Amount of money that it would cost because
we you don't wanna match thearchitecture. Right? And it
would reef it would re so, like,what is the what is the value
that we have? Well, a value thatwe have is, like, I don't wanna
get I don't want our church tobe tied up with a lot of debt.

(39:50):
Yeah. Because then we can't dothe things in ministry freely

Luke (39:54):
Right.

Cameron (39:54):
That we wanna do because we're saddled with this
building. For what? Right. So wecan put 50 more people in one
service? Like, it just seems tome to be a values rub.

Luke (40:10):
Mhmm.

Cameron (40:11):
That's quite obvious. Yep. But it only becomes obvious
when you have a nonconsumeristic view of the
community of the church.

Luke (40:25):
Mhmm.

Cameron (40:25):
When the when the view is like, oh, no. Like, the mark
of success is bigger buildings,more attendance

Luke (40:34):
Mhmm.

Cameron (40:34):
One central location, pack as many people, that's what
equals Yeah. Faithfulness orsuccess or whatever. Yeah. When
you have that, then it's like ayeah. Why wouldn't we spend
$3,000,000 to add 50 seats?
That just seems logical.

Luke (40:51):
Mhmm.

Cameron (40:53):
That's not our value here.

Luke (40:54):
Yeah. Well and even we had discussions over, like, you
know, because we've tossed justabout every, option around at
some point. We've talked about,you know, what would a different
space look like? And, you know,you were asking, I think, a
really pertinent question of,like, does our space which,

(41:15):
like, our space this is an oldchurch building. That's what it
is.
If you come into it and look atit, you're like, oh, this is
like a classic traditionalchurch, with Sunday school rooms
and, like, pews Mhmm. And looksvery open and bright and, very
natural toned and all of that.But you would find that our

(41:37):
service is generallycontemporary if we're not a
Baptist church. Mhmm. I don'tmean that derogatory, but, like,
that seems to be the shorthand alot of people use for kind of a
We're not old timey.
We're not old timey. Right?

Cameron (41:52):
Yeah.

Luke (41:53):
And so, but we're also not we don't have smoke machines. We
don't have colored lights. Mhmm.We're not, we're not trying to
push the edge of our productionlimit. You know?
We're like simplicity, want thelights on. We talk about that as
like a we generally want thingsto be kind of corporate and open

(42:13):
and bright. And what is that'spart of our culture. It's part
of our values and the way westructure things and how we do
things. I, and I think some ofthis kind of, it's funny how you
can tell like a church, doesn'talways like, doesn't always

(42:39):
think about these thingsexplicitly.
So I'm not saying that everytime I go into a church and I
see they've done somethingarchitecturally or design wise
that they've necessarily thoughtall the way through those
implications. But, like, Iremember I was at a church. You
know, they were, it looked likeit was a church. I don't even
remember what church it was, butit looked like they had, made

(43:03):
the transition from hymns tousing projector screens. But
they had only bought oneprojector screen, and it only
fit in one place, and that wasin front of the cross.
Good luck. Yeah. Good luck. Sothe way they compromised, right,
was that when they sang, theprojector screen would and come

(43:24):
down, and then they wouldproject onto it. And then as
soon as the worship was over,come back up and you could see
the cross.
But then if the pastor usedsermon notes, it would come
right. So the projector screenwas constantly going up and down
in the service because they werekeenly aware of the trade off of
what technological and designdecision they had made that by

(43:47):
only buying one projector andhaving it o only positioned in
the front, they covered up thecross that was designed and
placed there Mhmm. A hundredyears ago. Mhmm. Whatever,
whenever the church building wasbuilt.
Or one of the things that I'veseen, in I can think of two
different churches. I went intoa church. They had their old

(44:08):
communion table. You know, dothis in remembrance of me carved
on the front. And it was in thefoyer, and it had all the
pamphlets and stuff just stackedon it.
It was just like a informationtable now. I was like, oh,
interesting. Yeah. You know, andI came in, and it was obviously
had, like, a Hayes machine andstuff like that. I was like,
this church is and I askedsomebody who's been there.

(44:30):
I said, so has this church gonethrough, like, a big transition?
And they were like, yeah. And Iwas like, okay. And, like, I
could see, you know, or therewas one church I visited
happened to be on like, I thinkMemorial day. And they had, they
had their, you know, theircommunion table up front.

Cameron (44:47):
Please don't tell me they put an American flag on it.

Luke (44:49):
Oh, they put a seal of every single military branch on
it. So like Marine Corps, army,Navy, air force, like all, all
placed on the, do this inremembrance of me table. And I,

(45:09):
yeah, it was, I had feelings.

Cameron (45:11):
The abomination that causes desolation.

Luke (45:14):
Yeah. A little bit. You know, and there was, you know,
somebody said

Cameron (45:18):
Like when frigging Domitian or Nero brought a pig
into the Jewish temple.

Luke (45:22):
Yeah. And, you know, somebody made some, some, you
know, kind of half bakedtheological comment of, like,
thank you. Just like, you know,just like Jesus's death gives us
freedom. We thank all those whoand we remember all those who
have served in our armed forceswho give us freedom. And we're

(45:43):
not like a, like, we wanna showrespect to those who serve and
veterans and things like that.
We have honor and respect forthat, but, like, you ain't
Jesus. Sorry. Mhmm.

Cameron (45:53):
It's not the same thing.

Luke (45:54):
We're not gonna we're not gonna do that. Mhmm. So it's a
very different type of freedom.National national nationalism is
something we've talked abouthere before. Yeah.
Those are all architecturaldesign decisions that reflect

Cameron (46:10):
Mhmm.

Luke (46:11):
A theology or a thought, whether they've done that
intentionally or not. Sometimesthey're more aware of it than
than others. But Mhmm. Mhmm.

Cameron (46:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So the like, the just the thought of
going of, like, picking conduitup and moving it to another
building Mhmm. Or location, Ithink would be I think I
recognize that it's probablywell, I don't know. I'm I'm not

(46:44):
gonna I wouldn't stand in thisvery hard, but it's just I'm
kinda, like, just reflecting outloud about it right now.
I don't know that it would Idon't know that it's gonna be
the right move

Luke (46:57):
Right.

Cameron (46:58):
For us. Mhmm. I think that given all that we've just
said, we recognize how much ofour cultural values here, our
core values here are tied up inthe type of building that we
have Yep. And who we are andwhat we wanna be. And if we were

(47:18):
to just pick up and move to,say, a a warehouse type of space

Luke (47:25):
A big black box Yep.

Cameron (47:26):
And build it out, I'm not sure. I would be really
curious as to how that wouldchange our identity. Yeah. And
part of me is curious aboutthat, but also part of me is
like it if we are living intothe proper identity in the place

(47:54):
we are at now Mhmm. Then itshouldn't really change our
identity when we simply movelocations.
If we've done a good enough jobleading our people and their
understanding of what the churchis Yeah. Then moving physical
locations shouldn't radicallyshouldn't radically change our

(48:15):
identity.

Luke (48:16):
Mhmm.

Cameron (48:17):
The reality is that it likely would.

Luke (48:21):
Yeah. So We'd have to be, like because, like, it so, like,
Craig Rochelle, who we mentionedfrom time to time,
bigchurchlife.church. Like hisphilosophy is, is when you start
a church or make a new churchcampus, make a big box and have
one big room that you can use asa conference room. Like, you can

(48:44):
use like, essentially, you makeit kind of blank so that you can
flex it. You know, set up forSunday service, tear down, and
it's something else.
Right now, we have oursanctuary, and our sanctuary is
our sanctuary. Like, you couldnot host, like, a big banquet up
there, could not like, itfunctions as a sanctuary. Can't
really do anything else with it.And, you know, his philosophy,

(49:08):
which is in line of theirvalues, is being missional and
flexible and not, not beingovertied to, like, the space and
things like that. And that's allgreat.
I'm not bashing that, but that'sbut if we were to get a big
black box and doesn't have anywindows in it and it's kinda
dark, well, you gotta put lightsup. Yeah. And you've got to do

(49:29):
something to create Mhmm. Senseof ambiance and things like
that. And so it does rely alittle bit more on your design
and your production.
And, because you're missing thestaple architecture of a church
Yep. That some people would beso familiar with.

Cameron (49:48):
Mhmm.

Luke (49:49):
I think if we move somewhere, we'd have to be, you
know, it would have to be intoanother old church building,
empty church building orsomething like that. Yeah. Or if
we did have to do something morecreative than that, we'd almost
have to try and make it, have itbring some sort of the design

(50:09):
language of a church into it.Mhmm. And not just adopt kind of
a blank box kind of

Cameron (50:14):
Right. Yeah.

Luke (50:15):
Way. Because I think even about the story of our of this
church building, it's it's anolder building, which we're
having discussions about withsome regularity of, like, as we
just encounter the Realities ofold olding and own owning an old
structure. Right. Yeah. We gottafix things, update things from

(50:38):
time to time.
And, you know, but it's not it'snot sitting empty. It's got a
history to it and it's got apurpose and it's being cared for
and being made into somethingnew that represents our
community and things like that.And I think that's the story
that we wanna tell in Jamestownand in Chautauqua County is

(51:01):
like, not just kind of bulldozeover something. And say, oh,
we're just this new shiny thingapart from what's come before,
but be honoring of, the historyand the culture and be embedded
here and, be part of renovatingand, and it not being a shiny

(51:23):
new box Mhmm. Necessarily.
But I think that's the physicalway we care for our space here,
I think reflects ultimately ourdesire in the community.

Cameron (51:32):
Mhmm.

Luke (51:33):
Mhmm. I

Cameron (51:35):
don't know how we got on that one.

Luke (51:37):
Yeah. I don't know either. We just started talking about
space, I think, is where we

Cameron (51:43):
Yeah. We got there anyway. So I think there's some
other things, you know, like, Ididn't do a whole lot of reading
this year. Yeah. Kindadisappointed in that.
Mhmm. And then reflecting backon it now, I'm like, man, I
coulda done more.

Luke (51:59):
Yeah. Me too.

Cameron (52:00):
I did read some good things. I read Dark Clouds Deep
Mercy.

Luke (52:07):
Mhmm.

Cameron (52:08):
I read Good and Angry. I read Untapped. Mhmm. I'm
reading now Calling on the Nameof the Lord, which is a biblical
theology of prayer. But I don'tI don't think I I I read some

(52:31):
nonfiction books just like inmy, you know, relaxing time,
spare time, evenings.

Luke (52:38):
Yeah.

Cameron (52:39):
But,

Luke (52:40):
You mean fiction? Or

Cameron (52:41):
Or I'm sorry. Yes. Fiction books.

Luke (52:42):
You read fiction books. Yeah. I read some I read a good
amount of fiction this year too.

Cameron (52:46):
Yeah. Well, part of it's, like, we spend so much of
our we spend so much of our timereading for work. Yeah.
Researching Yep. That when I amnot at work, I want to I'm and
now I wanna read.
I kinda wanna read somewhatmindlessly or toward with, like,

(53:09):
an entertainment value. Yeah. So

Luke (53:13):
Commentaries are not always that interesting.

Cameron (53:16):
They're almost never interesting. There's, like, that
they're not made to beinteresting.

Luke (53:21):
They're pretty dry. Yeah. And, you know, it's, I I I'm the
thing the bigger thing for me isis that if I read something
that's nonfiction and kind ofministry or work related, I'm
just I'm not gonna be able to goto sleep in the evening. If I
end my evening with reading,nonfiction that's geared towards

(53:42):
ministry or something like that,I find myself just getting
really, like, charged andenergized. And then I'm just
like The gears are going.
My gears are going. My thoughts,everything is going, and I'm
just like, I can't sleep. Ican't sleep.

Cameron (53:56):
Yeah. So,

Luke (53:58):
what out of those list of books you did read though? Like,
if you had to pick one thatwould be on, like, on the top of
your recommended, what would itbe and why?

Cameron (54:11):
For, like, a layperson Mhmm. I would probably say dark
clouds deep mercy.

Luke (54:17):
Mhmm.

Cameron (54:19):
It was just about, like, the redeeming power and
presence of God's mercy in themidst of dark seasons of life or
difficult circumstances. Yeah.Mark Vogel, I think, wrote that.
That was good. That wasrecommended to me by my
counselor.
That was good. If you're achurch person, like a leader in

(54:40):
a church, or you just want,like, a better bead on church
leadership culture and and bothits development, but also it's,
like, maybe some insight intohow churches kind of like why
churches are the way they aresometimes.

Luke (54:59):
Mhmm.

Cameron (54:59):
I would say untapped, short book, easy read

Luke (55:04):
Mhmm.

Cameron (55:04):
Written by a semi local guy to us here in Jamestown. He
Mhmm. Pastors in Erie, DerekSanford, pastor at Grace Church.
Really good book. Mhmm.
So those would be, I guess, outof the very few books that I did
read, those would be the twothat I would recommend.

Luke (55:20):
Yeah. What about you? I What'd you read this year? Man.
Well, I read the whole HarryPotter series.
Mhmm. Just as, like, I needed Ithink earlier this fall, I
needed something really fun andeasy to go through, and that was
the, that was the thing I landedon.

Cameron (55:41):
Okay. Did you read it, or did you listened to

Luke (55:46):
it? I listened to it. Okay. That was how I was able to
get through it.

Cameron (55:51):
Just just just clarify.

Luke (55:52):
Just clarify.

Cameron (55:53):
I read my books, Luke.

Luke (55:55):
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Audible counts in my book. Yeah. But
books nonfiction books that Iread, I finished and I read
Unwanted by Jay Stringer, Dealswith Valton.
It's a it's a really good one.Particularly if, like, this
isn't like a good generalrecommendation, but, I mean,

(56:17):
maybe it is because sexualbrokenness is so pervasive that
it might as well be general attimes. But if you want if you or
a loved one deals with sexualunwanted sexual behavior, so
something that they're doingsexually that is they have a
desire to not do, but theystruggle to continue not doing

(56:40):
it or they struggle with, withthat. So whether that's
pornography or anything likethat. Mhmm.
Unwanted by Jay Stringer is ait's a great book on it. It's a
little clinical, at times, butit's, I think it's on the top of
my recommended list when itcomes to kind of beginning to

(57:00):
untangle, some of that. And itaddresses sexual brokenness in a
way that is not common to, maybea lot of the popular Christian
books, on the topic. So, I havea real heart for, because I that
was in conjunction with a guidetraining that I went through.

(57:24):
I'm, went through some trainingin order to be a certified guide
to, administer that course.
And I'm still in prayerfulexpectation over what that
learning and that training meansin my ministry here. So I have a
heart for it. I it's just kindof a where where and what does

(57:47):
that look like Mhmm. For me. So,but, yeah, that's a that's a
great book.
That was a great resource that Idove and went through pretty
deeply this year. I don'tremember if we ended up talking
about, I think we may havetalked a little bit about
practicing the way, when itfirst came out way back in the

(58:07):
beginning of the year. Butpracticing the way by John Mark
Comer was a great read. That'sprobably the book that, like,
I've given out the most thisyear, recommended the most to
our leaders and different peopleof, like, this is a great
starting place for followingJesus, but following Jesus in a

(58:31):
way that's not just focused on,like, showing up on Sunday
morning. Mhmm.
And it's, yeah, that was a greatbook. I'm almost done. I'm maybe
like one or two more chaptersleft in an older book by John
Mark Comer. It's not that old,but, the ruthless elimination of
hurry, right. Finishing thatbook and very convicting book.

(58:55):
Mhmm. He has a lot to do with,you know, just eliminating hurry
and that dreaded word ofbusyness in our lives. So that's
a and even the la latter half ofthe book deals a lot with
consumerism.

Cameron (59:14):
Mhmm.

Luke (59:14):
And I'm just like, oh, boy. Mhmm. Feeling some
conviction around that and justbeing the nature of Christmas
and all of this.

Cameron (59:21):
You're right.

Luke (59:22):
Yeah. Mhmm. Other book that I'm still reading, slowly,
but I've not given too much timewas, the unseen realms by
Michael Heisler, which has gotto do with theology of spiritual
beings and things like that.Angels, demons, and have nots.

(59:45):
And so it's an interesting book.
I would recommend that toministry leaders. Mhmm. It's not
something I think I canrecommend to, recommend to Lay
simply because I just I don'tknow about some of his
conclusions. I'm just kind ofundecided as to it's kind of a

(01:00:06):
research book for me. Mhmm.
So I think those were my my bigreads, I think. I'm reading like
a productivity book right now.That's just like, I think it's
the, it's maybe the best bookthat I've ever read on, on

(01:00:29):
productivity. I'm pulling up thetitle of it real quick. It's,
manage your day to day, buildyour routine, find your focus,
and sharpen your creative mind.
It's a compilation book ofdifferent people who are kind of
like in the

Cameron (01:00:44):
In that space.

Luke (01:00:45):
In that space of

Cameron (01:00:46):
Productivity and efficiency space.

Luke (01:00:48):
Mhmm. And each chapter's, like, maybe four or five pages
long. Mhmm. Real easy to read.But I find that, like, if you
get one book that's, like, youknow, like, all about, like,
structuring your day orsomething like that, it tends to
be just too much.
It's, you know, it's this bigwhole comprehensive system. This
is like one chapter, you know,like one of the big takeaways

(01:01:11):
from one of the chapters is,I've heard the stat, but I've
never heard it explained likethis. So If you're taking an IQ
test, they did this experiment,right. Had people take IQ tests.
Some had their phones next tothem and some didn't their phone
was outside the room and it'snot having your phone go off or

(01:01:34):
act but just the simple presenceof your phone in the room had
people score lower on their IQtests.

Cameron (01:01:41):
Mhmm.

Luke (01:01:42):
And the chapter explained like the missing piece to that.
I was like, I don't understandhow, like, a phone just sitting
there makes your IQ score lower.And they were saying, well, it's
not just the presence. It's themental exercise that you're
having to do to resist thelooking at it. It's the

(01:02:06):
potentiality of it.
It's a distraction. Even ifyou're not on your phone, you're
still exercising a level ofwillpower and self control to
not look at it. And that takeseffort that is distracting you
from doing other things. And Iwas like, oh, like and so that's
impacted the way that I'vestarted to interact with my

(01:02:27):
phone recently. I got this likedevice where I it's called a
brick.
Brick it. Mhmm. And I brick it.I tap it to this brick. It locks
and it turns off everythingexcept for my text messages and
phone calls and my maps.
How does it how do you like it?I like it a lot, because it's a
physical key. Mhmm. So, like,I'll I've been doing this

(01:02:49):
particularly in my evening andmorning routine. So I'll have my
brick, it's a magnet, sits on myfridge.
Mhmm. Tap it. I go upstairs tomy bedroom. And then at night, I
can't be doing anything. Can'tbe scrolling on Instagram.
I can't be like, booking onAmazon. I can't be doing
anything. So I'm either readingor going to bed or having a

(01:03:09):
conversation with my wife, whichare great. I'd rather be doing
those things anyways. And thenwhen I get up in the morning, I
can't check my email firstthing.
Yep. Can't scroll on socialmedia. Mhmm. So, like, if I
wanna do those things, well, Igotta get up. Like, you know, I
can if I'm gonna go all the waydown to the fridge, I'm not
going all all back up to bed.

(01:03:31):
So, it's functioning great forthat. The software is a little
buggy right now. So, like, I'mhaving a hard time. You can set
up different types of locks sothat, like, it leaves certain
apps unlocked. And my experienceright now is it's a little
buggy, and I think that might bebecause of the soft all the

(01:03:51):
software updates with Apple.
And the company says they'reworking on it. But the base
functionality of it Yeah. Worksgreat in the principle of it.

Cameron (01:04:00):
Yeah. I've considered buying it

Luke (01:04:01):
Yeah.

Cameron (01:04:02):
Myself. So that's why I ask.

Luke (01:04:04):
Yeah. I like it. But software is a little buggy right
now. So but other than that,I've had a great experience with
it as far as a concept. Soanyways, that's what I've read
and Mhmm.
In large scope. Yeah.

Cameron (01:04:20):
Well, I don't know that that was helpful. Maybe it was
entertaining. I don't know. Butthat was kind of a potpourri of,
various things that had wereimpactful for the year for us,
for half the year for us. That'sabout all we did.
It was half a year. Yeah. Alittle bit over half a year

(01:04:40):
worth of episodes. So, whatwe'll be doing is, taking a
break now. I think we'll take abreak for the Christmas we took
a break for the Christmasseason.

Luke (01:04:52):
Yeah. So we won't this will be after Christmas. And

Cameron (01:04:55):
Yeah. And then we'll we'll re up in Jan. 0 Mhmm.
With, something.

Luke (01:05:04):
Well, I think our Something. Something. I think
our hopes are to align ourpodcast here with some of the
broader conversations we'regonna be having throughout the
year as a church.

Cameron (01:05:15):
Yeah. So So thanks for tuning in. Always as always,
please, like wherever you'rewhere like this episode or this
podcast, wherever you'relistening to it. Subscribe to
it. It'd be great.
Gonna share it with a friendhere or there. Give us a rating.
Make a comment if you'rewatching on YouTube. Any and all

(01:05:37):
of those things would be reallygreat for us. Really
encouraging.
As always, thanks for listening,and we'll see you on the next
section.