May 19, 2025 • 36 mins
Didn't Jesus just do away with the sabbath? This week we discuss if observing the sabbath is for the the christian believer today.
Click here to watch a video of this episode.
- (00:00) - Introduction to Sabbath
- (01:17) - The Debate on Sabbath Observance
- (21:41) - Practicing Sabbath in Modern Life
- (23:14) - Intentional Rest vs. Busy Days
- (33:45) - Reflections on the Sabbath Series
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Luke (00:00):
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. I'm
(00:19):
pastor Cameron. And this is theuncut podcast where we have
honest uncut conversations aboutfaith, life, and ministry.
Morning, everyone.
Morning, everyone. At leastmorning for us. We've been, in
the past couple episodes,talking about Sabbath, kind of
covered a little bit of thegamut. Today, we're not entirely
(00:41):
sure what exactly we're going totalk about, but we figured we'd
start with Sabbaths, sincethat's where our study has kind
of been, and where we've beenkind of thinking and talking
about as of late. Maybe kind offinish up some details or
questions that we didn't get totalk about in the sermon series.
(01:03):
There was a lot to talk aboutthere. But maybe let's just
start with that question that Ithink is on a lot of people's
minds, and is a heavily debatedtopic, so there's certainly
plenty to talk about, mustChristians observe Sabbath?
Cameron (01:31):
If you want to follow the life of Jesus closely, then
yes.
Luke (01:34):
Yeah. Because so so your answer is, well, Jesus practiced
Sabbath?
Cameron (01:40):
Yes. Mhmm. I don't think that's inconsequential.
Luke (01:44):
Mhmm.
Cameron (01:45):
It becomes a little bit like, maybe maybe the argument
is a little circular because hecomes to be the Lord of the
Sabbath, to be the fulfillmentof the law. Yeah. He is a Jew.
Mhmm. And they celebrated orobserved the Sabbath.
And so it but then in the sameway, what would be the I guess,
(02:12):
of the reasoning would be, orpart of the reverse question is,
why would a Christian choose notto celebrate the Sabbath, or
observe the Sabbath? And I thinkthe typical answer is, well, I
don't have to, because I followJesus. He is the Lord of the
(02:35):
Sabbath. He fulfilled the lawMhmm. In his life, death,
resurrection, so I'm no longerbound by the law.
Therefore, Sabbath is no longersomething that I have to be
worried about. Which, I've notreally ever truly understood
(02:57):
that argument myself, because wedon't typically have that type
of attitude towards otheraspects of the law. In
particular, Old Testament, orlike, 10 Commandments type of 10
Commandments type of law,typically, there is still a
(03:21):
understanding of we want tocontinue to keep the moral
aspects of the law because wethink that they're important and
because Jesus did. Butultimately, I kinda think, I
understand the question, but Ialmost think that it may be the
wrong question. Mhmm.
Rather than must a must aChristian follow the Sabbath or
(03:46):
observe the Sabbath, I think thebetter question is, why wouldn't
what would be the reasons that aChristian wouldn't observe the
Sabbath?
Luke (03:54):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the to give a fair
representation of the I think itwould be like, well, you know,
Jesus did away with the law, andlike,
Cameron (04:11):
did he though?
Luke (04:13):
Well, no. But like, you know, he we're no longer bound
by the law, perhaps is a betterway of saying that. And, you
know, Jesus sort of has given usfreedom, you know? Mhmm. And so
for us to continue to hold towhat was a Jewish custom, you
(04:38):
know, would be kind of, know,isn't that just Judaizing
ourself?
You know? So the early churchstruggled with people who were
Judaizers, who essentially wereadvocating for importing
(04:59):
significant amounts of JewishLevitical law into church
practice, and Paul talks veryexplicitly about the Judaizers
and not being subject to that.So why does it not fall in the
same vein as circumcision?
Cameron (05:18):
And I would say to that, because Sabbath was not
just a principle of the law,Sabbath was a principle of
creation.
Luke (05:26):
Mhmm.
Cameron (05:27):
That Sabbath wasn't established because God said,
oh, and by the way, on theseventh day, don't do anything.
Right. Or the seventh year,don't do anything. Yeah. That
Sabbath had its root increation.
Mhmm. So I think it goes beyondjust law keeping, or law
(05:51):
breaking, or the fulfillment ofthe law. Yeah, because if we
talk about Sabbath as somethingnecessary unto salvation, which
is what the Judaizers weretrying to do, right? They were
saying to Christians, GentileChristians, well, Jesus was
(06:15):
Jewish, so they they were theywere elevating things like
circumcision, elevating thenecessity of that to for
salvation. Yeah.
And I wouldn't elevate Sabbathas necessary to salvation.
Right. But I that's not the samething as saying that it is an
(06:41):
unhelpful or unnecessarypractice, because especially
because of the way in which wesee the rhythmic, cyclical
presence of Sabbath in thecreation account.
Luke (06:56):
Mhmm. I want to read for us I think I think this will
kind of help us summarize thewhole actually, both sides of
the argument well here is Romans14 verse five says, one person
esteems one day as better thananother, while another esteems
(07:17):
all days alike. Each one shouldbe fully convinced in his own
mind. The one who observes theday, observes it in honor of the
Lord. The one who eats, eats inhonor of the Lord since he gives
thanks to God, while the one whoabstains, abstains in honor of
the Lord and gives thanks toGod.
For none of us lives to himself,and none of us dies to himself.
(07:43):
For if we live, we live to theLord. If we die, we die to the
Lord. So then, whether we live,whether we die, we are the
Lord's. For to this end Christdied and lived again, that he
might be both Lord of the deadand the living.
And so, there in that firstpart, it's talking about one
esteems one day as better thanthe other, while some esteem all
(08:06):
days alike. Each should be fullyconvinced in his own mind.
Cameron (08:11):
So we're saying that for Paul, at least, that the
practice of Sabbath, and hedoesn't come right out and say
No. That one day is the Sabbath,but you get the language that
he's Yes. Especially when hesays, you know, they observe one
day unto the Lord, which themessage of the Old Testament
about Sabbath. Right. That he issaying it's a matter of personal
(08:36):
conscience and conviction.
Yeah. You can if you want to.Mhmm. You don't have to if you
don't want to. Yeah.
But what do you think he wassaying that in relation to?
Like, do you think it was inrelation to a person's
salvation? Or do you think itwas in relationship to, like,
(08:57):
what is like, I I think it's inrelationship to salvation. Like,
hey, Romans Mhmm. You're it's amatter of personal conscience
here.
So, you know, like, you're notgonna be unsaved if you don't.
You're not gonna be saved if youdo. Right. But I I do wonder
what Paul would say in just, inthe everything is permissible
(09:20):
for me, but not everything isbeneficial.
Luke (09:22):
Mhmm.
Cameron (09:23):
And he was like, but this is beneficial. Right. I
don't know, but I do wonderbecause I just can't get I just
can't get away from its presencein creation.
Luke (09:38):
Yeah. I I mean, there's also an argument. It would be I
wonder if there so I don't know,but like, there could be an
argument here that he's maybenot saying that we should well,
it would be kind of hard to getaround the phrase, one esteems
all days as alike. But there wassome debate early in the church
(10:01):
about Sabbath moving fromSaturday to Sunday. A lot of the
early church observedtraditional Sabbath on Saturday
and then practiced whateventually became our modern
church service on Sundays aswell.
Some people think that thataccounts for some of the way
(10:23):
that communions are kind ofdescribed. There's the different
communions that are described inthe New Testament, where it
seems like communion was thisbig feast, but then also it
seems to not always be that, andso some think that that's maybe
the origin of that, is that wewere having Sabbath feasts with
(10:44):
communion on Saturday, orSaturday, yeah, Saturday, which
would be like our Friday night,and then practicing Sunday
morning worship as well. But Idon't think that that's really
what he's talking about here, ISo, I mean, I think he's saying
here that while here's thething, is that if you read this
(11:05):
passage and you're like, Okay,well that means I don't have to
observe Sabbath, he doesn'treally let you off the hook. He
says each one should be fullyconvinced in their own mind. The
one who observes the day,observes it and honors the Lord.
The one who eats is to do in thehonor of the Lord, he gives
(11:26):
thanks. The one who abstains inhonor of the Lord gives thanks.
So if you're observing all ofthe days alike, you're supposed
to be observing all of thosedays to the Lord with the same
amount of intentionality as ifyou were observing with that you
would do the one. And what Ifind a compelling rebuttal to
(11:49):
anyone who reads this passageand simply reads it as like,
Well, there, I don't have topractice Sabbath. Okay, then how
are you observing every day untothe Lord with intentionality,
like, because you're supposed tobe doing that unto the Lord.
Whereas, what I think whattypically happens is we just
fall into a pattern of justdoing what the world's been
(12:15):
doing. Mhmm. We just go throughour week, our habits, our rhythm
is more defined by the sportsschedule and our work schedule
than it is by observing it. OurSabbath rhythm. Our Sabbath
rhythm.
Yeah. Yeah. But I agree. I thinklargely, you know, there's this
(12:39):
people make a distinction in theOld Testament law, and it kind
of works, saying that there'sthe ceremonial and cultural law,
which is most of what's inLeviticus, and then there's the
moral law, which is summed up inthe 10 Commandments. The
(13:01):
ceremonial and Levitical law hasmostly been done away with.
Paul mostly advocates, we don'tnecessarily have to observe
that. That's why I had bacon forbreakfast this morning. But
then, the moral law, mustcontinue to observe. That's
generally an argument that hasbeen made by a lot of Christians
(13:22):
for a long time. The issue beingis that that's a really nice way
of dividing it up, except forwhen you come to the Sabbath,
because then people also want tosay, well, the moral law except
for the Sabbath, because theSabbath is obviously not moral,
except that the Bible does treatit as a moral law.
A Sabbath breaker could bepunished by death in the Old
(13:45):
Testament.
Cameron (13:46):
Mhmm. That's what they wanted to do with Jesus.
Luke (13:49):
Yeah. Yeah. They wanted to kill Jesus because he healed on
the Sabbath, and other things onthe Sabbath. And so it was a
moral law, and I think it's I Ithink if you want like, I don't
know how completely convinced Iam by the that argument of,
(14:09):
like, the ceremonial and moral.I don't know if that's really a
category with, like
Cameron (14:17):
was gonna ask I was gonna ask the question about,
like, what do you think theawareness of people contemporary
to Jesus was in the distinctionbetween ceremonial and moral
law?
Luke (14:28):
I don't think
Cameron (14:28):
that was It was just the law.
Luke (14:30):
It was just the law. And and I think that's I think
that's a philosophical, like,category that we've put on it
reading backwards.
Cameron (14:39):
It's helped us to read backwards.
Luke (14:40):
And it creates a nice distinction in our minds because
it helps us parse out some ofwhat Paul's saying in the New
Testament, but I don't know thatit originates from the Bible,
and so I think it has a prettystrong limit as how far back
that can really create ourinterpretations
Cameron (14:58):
of things. There are things that are labeled as
ceremonial laws. Mhmm. But theywere never, at least
Luke (15:04):
Well, because like there was
Cameron (15:05):
I could be wrong, but I don't recall any point where
they were like where any NewTestament writer or even Old
Testament figure elevatedcertain laws over other laws.
No. As like, oh, this is themoral law, so we must follow it.
This is just the ceremonial law,so that there's some room for
interpretation. I could be wrongthere, but I don't think that
(15:28):
that's the way that theyapproach the law.
Luke (15:30):
Not necessarily. I mean, like, you could make the
argument that, like, thepunishments, so, like, the
severity of punishment per lawmakes But I mean, most lost
ended up in some version ofdeath at some point, if you read
the Old Testament. So I don'tknow. I've never really Not
(15:53):
never, but I feel like thatcategorical argument is hard to
make from scripture itself, andI think is more a category that
we've reimposed on scripturepost. But I think it But if you
buy that, and if that's a schemathat you're holding into, you
(16:14):
then do have to answer thequestion, why don't we observe
Sabbath?
But even if we don't hold ontothat schema, I do still think
that the fact that it is encodedin the 10 commandments does root
it as being somewhat core. It'snot like the law of like Don't
(16:39):
eat shellfish. Don't eatshellfish. Don't wear blended
fabrics. Don't the first year ofmarriage, the man's not allowed
to go off to war or leave hishomestead for a whole year.
Mhmm. Like, it's not one ofthose laws. It's one of the 10
commandments, rooted in creationand in the Exodus story,
reiterated a lot Mhmm. Tied intothe gospel story. Mhmm.
(17:05):
Like, it's it's not some smallsmall thing for us to dismiss.
Cameron (17:09):
Yeah. I I just think it becomes more difficult and
problematic to explain away thepractice of Sabbath than it does
to actually observe the Sabbath.Yeah. You gotta do more
theological, interpretive,hermeneutical gymnastics to jump
around. Yep.
Why wouldn't we? Especially inin this something that you said
(17:30):
this past week, especially in alike, understanding Sabbath as a
gift. Right. Like, if Sabbath isa gift given to us by God, then
who in their right mind would belike, yeah, I'm good on gifts
(17:51):
from God. I don't don't need anygift from God.
I don't want a gift from God. Iwould rather just work myself to
death death, and unite myselfwith the God of mammon Yeah. In
the world. Mhmm. Instead ofreceive a gift of God rooted in
the fabric of creation.
(18:12):
Yeah. So it just seems
Luke (18:14):
It is. That's the point, is essentially, we do have to
get down to a place of like, whyare you refusing Sabbath if it's
a gift? And like, you know,maybe there's a listener, you
know, you're like, you know,your life and your work and your
family is in such a way thatlike, you're working seven days
(18:37):
a week or something ridiculous.Yeah. Is there grace for where
you find yourself and whatyou're forced to do?
A %. Right? Mhmm. But at thesame time, I would say that the
people who literally are unableto observe Sabbath in a twenty
four hour period of rest fromall work and spending it in
(19:02):
delight and worship, is veryfew. I would say most people who
would come and say, Pastor Luke,Pastor Cameron, I cannot
practice Sabbath.
I am just simply too busy. Iwould say that most of those
people can. They are simplyunwilling to change their life
(19:27):
in such a way as to make itpossible.
Cameron (19:29):
Right. Right. Yeah. And right. And there may be days
where or weeks Yep.
Where my my schedule this weekYeah. Is such that, like, I
don't know that I'm gonna get afull, uninterrupted twenty four
(19:50):
hour period of time where I canlegitimately pursue Sabbath
rest.
Luke (19:56):
Mhmm.
Cameron (19:57):
The difference now being is because Jesus is Lord
of the Sabbath, I do not fallunder the curse of breaking that
law. Right. I fall under the lawof grace, the law of Jesus, and
there is a permissablenessthere.
Luke (20:17):
Yep.
Cameron (20:17):
Not not a taking advantage of the grace offered,
but a freedom from the legalismthat says, following the law to
a t is what makes you righteous.Yeah. I already am righteous. I
have the righteousness of Jesus.Mhmm.
Not righteousness of my own thatcomes from the law, so Paul
(20:39):
himself says, but arighteousness that comes by
faith.
Luke (20:42):
Yeah.
Cameron (20:45):
So, yeah, for me, it's like I'm I'm gonna take the
gift. I'm gonna celebrate thegift. If there's weeks that I
that the gift becomes or thatthe schedule becomes just
undoable, then Mhmm. I take whatof the gift I can. Yeah.
(21:05):
It's when we were preaching onprayer, we use the phrase pray
as you can, not as you can't.Right. And sometimes you need
the Sabbath as you can, not asyou can't.
Luke (21:15):
Right. Start where you're
Cameron (21:17):
at. Mhmm.
Luke (21:18):
You know, if that looks like, you know, your Saturday
morning, you know, you're ableto take just Saturday morning as
a Sabbath, start there. Yep. Youknow? If you're like, there's no
way I could do a twenty fourhour period. Okay.
Well, can you do like a six hourperiod, eight hour period?
Cameron (21:36):
Mhmm.
Luke (21:37):
You know? Let that be let that be something.
Cameron (21:41):
Mhmm.
Luke (21:42):
We were finishing up our Wednesday night study on Sabbath
last night, and we, for thatcurriculum, we've been using the
Practicing Away curriculum onSabbath by John Mark Comer and
his team, and they had a really,I think, helpful way of talking
about Sabbath. They said that intheir community, they've been
(22:06):
talking and practicing Sabbathso long that people have kind of
developed this slang forsomething that's Sabbath
adjacent, but not truly Sabbath.Mhmm. So like, a day where
you're like, oh, you start out,and you're like, you know, but
then you get distracted, and youdo the laundry, and you maybe do
some project work, and you'rekind of like, nah, and you kind
(22:28):
of not really, and then you endthe day with, like, you know,
binging a whole season of a showor something like that. Is they
they would call that Sabb ish.
Sabbish, not Sabbath.
Cameron (22:44):
Okay.
Luke (22:44):
You know, Sabbath like. And I think that that's a thing
that is a really trueexperience. I think if we're not
careful, Sabbaths can becomeSabbath like, very Sabbath ish,
(23:05):
where we're not truly practicingSabbath with the level of
intentionality that it actuallybrings life.
Cameron (23:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke (23:17):
What do you feel like are those things that, like, maybe
we that become part of in theSabbath that make it not as
intentional and life giving?Yeah. That kind of, like, turn
it more into a day off Yeah.Than a true Sabbath?
Cameron (23:36):
Well, I I I will always speak from my experience. Yeah.
But in the past, I have used mySabbath as a way to knock things
off my to do list at home. Mhmm.Things that I've been staring at
for weeks or months or whatever.
Yeah. And it's hard becausethere is a sense there's a sense
(23:56):
of like, oh, when I have theopportunity now to get to one of
those things
Luke (24:01):
Mhmm.
Cameron (24:01):
And knock it off the list, then I'm like, I feel so
good to have that done. Yeah. Atremendous sense of
accomplishment, or appreciation,or whatever. But in the midst of
doing it, it's just work, it'sjust like trying to get this
thing done. This is my onlytime, so to speak, that I have
to do it.
(24:21):
And so I I would say like doinghome projects and like chunking
things or checking things offthe list, that's one that's
sabbish for me.
Luke (24:32):
Yeah.
Cameron (24:36):
I think exercising is sabbish for me. Oh, really? Yep.
I do. Mhmm.
Part part of the reason that Ithink that is because Sabbath,
in a lot of ways, is thebreaking of a rhythm.
Luke (24:53):
Mhmm.
Cameron (24:55):
You know, it's like the ceasing and the stopping of what
your life is.
Luke (24:58):
Mhmm.
Cameron (24:59):
And a part of my regular rhythm and is exercising
Yeah. Every day. In the morning,usually. Sometimes twice a day.
Like, I was at the gym thismorning.
Luke (25:13):
Cameron's a gym pro, guys.
Cameron (25:15):
At 5AM. And before I go, well, maybe. I mean, we have
people coming over for dinner,so like, I don't I don't know
when I'm gonna get to it today.But they're like, I have another
workout in my program or in myschedule to prepare or to get
(25:35):
Mhmm. Ready for the marathon I'mprepping for.
Yeah. And is it necessary to doit? No. It's not necessary. I'm
not gonna shrivel up and die ifI don't.
It'll be alright.
Luke (25:51):
Yeah.
Cameron (25:53):
But it's still a part of who I am, that I do get in my
head a little bit about if Imiss a workout.
Luke (26:01):
Which is good, good on you.
Cameron (26:03):
Yeah. I really get in my head, and so I really push my
schedule and push my body to getthose things done. And I think
that it could be said that on aSabbath, that ex like
maintaining that rhythm Mhmm.And maintaining that schedule
(26:25):
for me is not a sufficientenough break with the world.
Yeah.
Or or not a sufficient enoughbreak with Your pattern. Culture
of my heart. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Luke (26:38):
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like home we were just talking about
home projects before we startedrecording, but, like, if there's
a magical home project thattakes an hour, maybe an hour and
a half. That could be Sabbathfor me, but those just don't
exist. Mhmm.
Like like, you know, like, bythe time you you're like, okay,
(27:01):
what do I gotta do? Figure out,okay, oh, I need to go to Home
Depot or wherever, Ace, and getand get X, Y, and Z to do the
project. You come back, startthe project. It doesn't take as,
you know, you're gettinginterrupted. Oh, there's that
thing that you oh, look, this isgonna be twice as big.
You know, projects never end upbeing simply an hour of your
(27:23):
time. Because there is a littlebit of truth to the adage of, if
you work with your mind, restwith your hands, and if you work
with your hands, rest with yourmind. There is, like, some truth
to that.
Cameron (27:41):
What if you do both?
Luke (27:42):
For what if you do both, you know? Then Yeah. You just
lay there. Sometimes
Cameron (27:47):
that's what I need. I feel like even that's what I
need today, so Yeah.
Luke (27:51):
But, you know so for me, sometimes, some physical labor,
some things around the house,but I know that that can easily
for me, that can easily turnfrom like a forty five minute
project into, where did my wholeday go?
Cameron (28:05):
Yeah.
Luke (28:06):
And then I I don't feel very rested.
Cameron (28:09):
Well, I will say too that, like, there's physical
activity that you that I couldprobably do, that I know I could
do that would not be Sabbish,but would be Sabbath. Mhmm. I
don't know why I didn't think ofthis when I was talking before,
but that's exactly Sherry and I,last Friday, we got the kids off
to school on the bus, and wepacked a we packed a bag, and we
(28:32):
went for a long hike in theAllegheny National Forest, no
cell service, beautiful weather,just the two of us. Hiked six
miles into a lake, hiked backout, had lunch, and it was
physically demanding, but itwasn't like a, Oh, I'm
Luke (28:56):
here You're not lifting rocks a smelly warehouse, you
know? No.
Cameron (29:02):
You're just like, I was enjoying the company of my wife,
I was enjoying the company ofcreation, I was enjoying the
company, like the presence ofthe Lord, out in the fresh air,
no pressure. Yeah. Just there toenjoy. Yep. To delight.
Stuff like that. Yep. Is whatwork is like. That could be for
me.
Luke (29:22):
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I think for me, the thing that is most
easily I love spending time withpeople. I think sometimes it
depends on where my socialbattery is, and who the people
are sometimes.
Like, if I'm going into a socialsituation what's on what's
(29:43):
supposed to be my Sabbath, andI'm like, there's gonna be a lot
of I don't really know thepeople super well, or their
acquaintances, or, you know, orsomething. Like, it's going to
require more of my socialbattery.
Cameron (29:57):
Mhmm.
Luke (29:57):
That does not typically that's usually more savvish. I
might even walk away saying, oh,that was kind of fun. Mhmm. But
I don't feel rested. Feel morelike like a drained Energizer
bunny.
Or I think the thing that ismore likely to sneak in and
steal my Sabbath is like, I needto find language for this,
(30:22):
because everyone knows what I'mtalking about, but I've not
quite really found the term forit in English. But kind of this
I think it's when we engage withentertainment in a mindless or
(30:44):
over consumptive way. So likebinging a TV show, scrolling on
my phone, playing video gamesfor hours on end. Now, part of
my story and even what I sharedfrom my last sermon was that
actually, like, Friday nightmovies with my dad, sitting down
(31:04):
with a bowl of popcorn watchinga classic movie was like, for
me, an early identification oflike, that was Sabbath for me.
Like, that was a routine andhabit that was in my family that
like, brought a lot of joy,goodness into my life.
But that wasn't sitting down andwatching like, a Netflix or Hulu
(31:27):
show that's like, you know,thirty minute episodes or forty
five minute episodes, andwatching six of them in a row or
something like that. It wassitting down, watching something
that had been created with someintentionality and artistry, and
(31:49):
even talking about it. And therewere some boundaries to it. It
wasn't like I was doing thatevery night. This was something
I was doing especially with mydad on Friday nights.
And so there is a point for mewhere playing a video game for
an hour or two, or watching agood movie or something, can be
(32:12):
really restful, restorative, andbring joy to me. But when it
starts to become mindless, andI'm using it to escape, or numb
out, or it like, gets into thislength, it it does not it ceases
to become it becomes sabbish forme, and I walk away feeling more
(32:32):
less attuned Mhmm. Not moreattuned to my environment and
myself. There's like a fine linefor that. For some people
Cameron (32:41):
It's a volume.
Luke (32:42):
Yeah, exactly. And for some people, you just gotta
avoid all digital media. For me,that's not necessarily the
thing, you know? If I because Ienjoy watching a really good
movie, and sitting down, anddiscussing it, and thinking
about it. But I know that that'snot everybody.
(33:03):
It kinda drives my wife nuts.She'll we'll be watching like a
I don't know, some sort of likethriller or something, and she's
just like, oh my gosh, what ifthat person dies? And I was
like, I won't. They're theywon't. They're top billed on the
on the they're like theadvertised star.
They're not gonna die in themovie. They're like, shut up. I
have a tendency of ruiningmovies from people sometimes,
(33:25):
but so I think I think that Idon't know. I think media
definitely can get its hooks,because that's our default way
of relaxing, but it's notnecessarily a good way to
Sabbath.
Cameron (33:42):
No. Mm-mm. No. Yeah. I think the whole series on
Sabbath, the press into Sabbathhas been timely Mhmm.
And from the Lord. I don't Idon't think that it is like a,
(34:04):
oh, we just picked a spiritualtopic out of thin air. I think
it No. Goes from the Lord. I'mkinda eager to continue with it
now that there's somewhat of abase Mhmm.
Or a foundation that's been laidYep. In the church, and see
where see where it goes fromhere for all of us, even just
(34:25):
myself.
Luke (34:26):
Yeah. Me too. I I do think that it we talked about this, I
think, last time, was just howmuch the topic kind of surprised
us, and how much there was tokind of talk about, and even
just unpack, and how culturallyopposed we've become to Sabbath.
Cameron (34:46):
Yeah. Yeah. The pushback, and then really eye
opening and revealing to me as apastor. So thanks for listening
to this episode Mhmm. And allthe previous episodes on Sabbath
and prayer and the things thatwe've been preaching on lately.
We're gonna be taking a breakfrom a regular series over the
(35:08):
next three weeks in on Sundays.Be preaching on Palm Sunday this
week, and then Good Friday, andEaster Sunday, and then the
last, week of the month here inApril, we're preaching on
baptism, we have a baptismservice coming up. So and then
we're into a series on Exodus.So I imagine that you're gonna
get a lot of Exodus materialhere Mhmm. On the podcast during
(35:31):
that time.
So Yeah. The spring and summer.
Luke (35:33):
Yep. Or parables.
Cameron (35:35):
Or parables. That's right. To turn the parables on
Wednesday night, that'd be agreat class.
Luke (35:39):
Yeah. So
Cameron (35:41):
Oh, also, I do have to say, someone did, just like off
the cuff, out of the blue, hadno idea they watched the
podcast, said, hey, thanks formaking your speech a little bit
quicker. And then they laughed.Like, alright. Okay. Thanks.
You're welcome. You're welcome.I'm gonna continue to try to
(36:03):
speak more quickly, because onreplay, recognizing how slowly I
speak, but
Luke (36:09):
We just we'll count it up to thoughtfulness. Sounds good.
Cameron (36:12):
Alright. Thanks. We'll catch you on the next one.
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. I'm
(00:19):
pastor Cameron. And this is theuncut podcast where we have
honest uncut conversations aboutfaith, life, and ministry.
Morning, everyone.
Morning, everyone. At leastmorning for us. We've been, in
the past couple episodes,talking about Sabbath, kind of
covered a little bit of thegamut. Today, we're not entirely
(00:41):
sure what exactly we're going totalk about, but we figured we'd
start with Sabbaths, sincethat's where our study has kind
of been, and where we've beenkind of thinking and talking
about as of late. Maybe kind offinish up some details or
questions that we didn't get totalk about in the sermon series.
(01:03):
There was a lot to talk aboutthere. But maybe let's just
start with that question that Ithink is on a lot of people's
minds, and is a heavily debatedtopic, so there's certainly
plenty to talk about, mustChristians observe Sabbath?
Cameron (01:31):
If you want to follow the life of Jesus closely, then
yes.
Luke (01:34):
Yeah. Because so so your answer is, well, Jesus practiced
Sabbath?
Cameron (01:40):
Yes. Mhmm. I don't think that's inconsequential.
Luke (01:44):
Mhmm.
Cameron (01:45):
It becomes a little bit like, maybe maybe the argument
is a little circular because hecomes to be the Lord of the
Sabbath, to be the fulfillmentof the law. Yeah. He is a Jew.
Mhmm. And they celebrated orobserved the Sabbath.
And so it but then in the sameway, what would be the I guess,
(02:12):
of the reasoning would be, orpart of the reverse question is,
why would a Christian choose notto celebrate the Sabbath, or
observe the Sabbath? And I thinkthe typical answer is, well, I
don't have to, because I followJesus. He is the Lord of the
(02:35):
Sabbath. He fulfilled the lawMhmm. In his life, death,
resurrection, so I'm no longerbound by the law.
Therefore, Sabbath is no longersomething that I have to be
worried about. Which, I've notreally ever truly understood
(02:57):
that argument myself, because wedon't typically have that type
of attitude towards otheraspects of the law. In
particular, Old Testament, orlike, 10 Commandments type of 10
Commandments type of law,typically, there is still a
(03:21):
understanding of we want tocontinue to keep the moral
aspects of the law because wethink that they're important and
because Jesus did. Butultimately, I kinda think, I
understand the question, but Ialmost think that it may be the
wrong question. Mhmm.
Rather than must a must aChristian follow the Sabbath or
(03:46):
observe the Sabbath, I think thebetter question is, why wouldn't
what would be the reasons that aChristian wouldn't observe the
Sabbath?
Luke (03:54):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the to give a fair
representation of the I think itwould be like, well, you know,
Jesus did away with the law, andlike,
Cameron (04:11):
did he though?
Luke (04:13):
Well, no. But like, you know, he we're no longer bound
by the law, perhaps is a betterway of saying that. And, you
know, Jesus sort of has given usfreedom, you know? Mhmm. And so
for us to continue to hold towhat was a Jewish custom, you
(04:38):
know, would be kind of, know,isn't that just Judaizing
ourself?
You know? So the early churchstruggled with people who were
Judaizers, who essentially wereadvocating for importing
(04:59):
significant amounts of JewishLevitical law into church
practice, and Paul talks veryexplicitly about the Judaizers
and not being subject to that.So why does it not fall in the
same vein as circumcision?
Cameron (05:18):
And I would say to that, because Sabbath was not
just a principle of the law,Sabbath was a principle of
creation.
Luke (05:26):
Mhmm.
Cameron (05:27):
That Sabbath wasn't established because God said,
oh, and by the way, on theseventh day, don't do anything.
Right. Or the seventh year,don't do anything. Yeah. That
Sabbath had its root increation.
Mhmm. So I think it goes beyondjust law keeping, or law
(05:51):
breaking, or the fulfillment ofthe law. Yeah, because if we
talk about Sabbath as somethingnecessary unto salvation, which
is what the Judaizers weretrying to do, right? They were
saying to Christians, GentileChristians, well, Jesus was
(06:15):
Jewish, so they they were theywere elevating things like
circumcision, elevating thenecessity of that to for
salvation. Yeah.
And I wouldn't elevate Sabbathas necessary to salvation.
Right. But I that's not the samething as saying that it is an
(06:41):
unhelpful or unnecessarypractice, because especially
because of the way in which wesee the rhythmic, cyclical
presence of Sabbath in thecreation account.
Luke (06:56):
Mhmm. I want to read for us I think I think this will
kind of help us summarize thewhole actually, both sides of
the argument well here is Romans14 verse five says, one person
esteems one day as better thananother, while another esteems
(07:17):
all days alike. Each one shouldbe fully convinced in his own
mind. The one who observes theday, observes it in honor of the
Lord. The one who eats, eats inhonor of the Lord since he gives
thanks to God, while the one whoabstains, abstains in honor of
the Lord and gives thanks toGod.
For none of us lives to himself,and none of us dies to himself.
(07:43):
For if we live, we live to theLord. If we die, we die to the
Lord. So then, whether we live,whether we die, we are the
Lord's. For to this end Christdied and lived again, that he
might be both Lord of the deadand the living.
And so, there in that firstpart, it's talking about one
esteems one day as better thanthe other, while some esteem all
(08:06):
days alike. Each should be fullyconvinced in his own mind.
Cameron (08:11):
So we're saying that for Paul, at least, that the
practice of Sabbath, and hedoesn't come right out and say
No. That one day is the Sabbath,but you get the language that
he's Yes. Especially when hesays, you know, they observe one
day unto the Lord, which themessage of the Old Testament
about Sabbath. Right. That he issaying it's a matter of personal
(08:36):
conscience and conviction.
Yeah. You can if you want to.Mhmm. You don't have to if you
don't want to. Yeah.
But what do you think he wassaying that in relation to?
Like, do you think it was inrelation to a person's
salvation? Or do you think itwas in relationship to, like,
(08:57):
what is like, I I think it's inrelationship to salvation. Like,
hey, Romans Mhmm. You're it's amatter of personal conscience
here.
So, you know, like, you're notgonna be unsaved if you don't.
You're not gonna be saved if youdo. Right. But I I do wonder
what Paul would say in just, inthe everything is permissible
(09:20):
for me, but not everything isbeneficial.
Luke (09:22):
Mhmm.
Cameron (09:23):
And he was like, but this is beneficial. Right. I
don't know, but I do wonderbecause I just can't get I just
can't get away from its presencein creation.
Luke (09:38):
Yeah. I I mean, there's also an argument. It would be I
wonder if there so I don't know,but like, there could be an
argument here that he's maybenot saying that we should well,
it would be kind of hard to getaround the phrase, one esteems
all days as alike. But there wassome debate early in the church
(10:01):
about Sabbath moving fromSaturday to Sunday. A lot of the
early church observedtraditional Sabbath on Saturday
and then practiced whateventually became our modern
church service on Sundays aswell.
Some people think that thataccounts for some of the way
(10:23):
that communions are kind ofdescribed. There's the different
communions that are described inthe New Testament, where it
seems like communion was thisbig feast, but then also it
seems to not always be that, andso some think that that's maybe
the origin of that, is that wewere having Sabbath feasts with
(10:44):
communion on Saturday, orSaturday, yeah, Saturday, which
would be like our Friday night,and then practicing Sunday
morning worship as well. But Idon't think that that's really
what he's talking about here, ISo, I mean, I think he's saying
here that while here's thething, is that if you read this
(11:05):
passage and you're like, Okay,well that means I don't have to
observe Sabbath, he doesn'treally let you off the hook. He
says each one should be fullyconvinced in their own mind. The
one who observes the day,observes it and honors the Lord.
The one who eats is to do in thehonor of the Lord, he gives
(11:26):
thanks. The one who abstains inhonor of the Lord gives thanks.
So if you're observing all ofthe days alike, you're supposed
to be observing all of thosedays to the Lord with the same
amount of intentionality as ifyou were observing with that you
would do the one. And what Ifind a compelling rebuttal to
(11:49):
anyone who reads this passageand simply reads it as like,
Well, there, I don't have topractice Sabbath. Okay, then how
are you observing every day untothe Lord with intentionality,
like, because you're supposed tobe doing that unto the Lord.
Whereas, what I think whattypically happens is we just
fall into a pattern of justdoing what the world's been
(12:15):
doing. Mhmm. We just go throughour week, our habits, our rhythm
is more defined by the sportsschedule and our work schedule
than it is by observing it. OurSabbath rhythm. Our Sabbath
rhythm.
Yeah. Yeah. But I agree. I thinklargely, you know, there's this
(12:39):
people make a distinction in theOld Testament law, and it kind
of works, saying that there'sthe ceremonial and cultural law,
which is most of what's inLeviticus, and then there's the
moral law, which is summed up inthe 10 Commandments. The
(13:01):
ceremonial and Levitical law hasmostly been done away with.
Paul mostly advocates, we don'tnecessarily have to observe
that. That's why I had bacon forbreakfast this morning. But
then, the moral law, mustcontinue to observe. That's
generally an argument that hasbeen made by a lot of Christians
(13:22):
for a long time. The issue beingis that that's a really nice way
of dividing it up, except forwhen you come to the Sabbath,
because then people also want tosay, well, the moral law except
for the Sabbath, because theSabbath is obviously not moral,
except that the Bible does treatit as a moral law.
A Sabbath breaker could bepunished by death in the Old
(13:45):
Testament.
Cameron (13:46):
Mhmm. That's what they wanted to do with Jesus.
Luke (13:49):
Yeah. Yeah. They wanted to kill Jesus because he healed on
the Sabbath, and other things onthe Sabbath. And so it was a
moral law, and I think it's I Ithink if you want like, I don't
know how completely convinced Iam by the that argument of,
(14:09):
like, the ceremonial and moral.I don't know if that's really a
category with, like
Cameron (14:17):
was gonna ask I was gonna ask the question about,
like, what do you think theawareness of people contemporary
to Jesus was in the distinctionbetween ceremonial and moral
law?
Luke (14:28):
I don't think
Cameron (14:28):
that was It was just the law.
Luke (14:30):
It was just the law. And and I think that's I think
that's a philosophical, like,category that we've put on it
reading backwards.
Cameron (14:39):
It's helped us to read backwards.
Luke (14:40):
And it creates a nice distinction in our minds because
it helps us parse out some ofwhat Paul's saying in the New
Testament, but I don't know thatit originates from the Bible,
and so I think it has a prettystrong limit as how far back
that can really create ourinterpretations
Cameron (14:58):
of things. There are things that are labeled as
ceremonial laws. Mhmm. But theywere never, at least
Luke (15:04):
Well, because like there was
Cameron (15:05):
I could be wrong, but I don't recall any point where
they were like where any NewTestament writer or even Old
Testament figure elevatedcertain laws over other laws.
No. As like, oh, this is themoral law, so we must follow it.
This is just the ceremonial law,so that there's some room for
interpretation. I could be wrongthere, but I don't think that
(15:28):
that's the way that theyapproach the law.
Luke (15:30):
Not necessarily. I mean, like, you could make the
argument that, like, thepunishments, so, like, the
severity of punishment per lawmakes But I mean, most lost
ended up in some version ofdeath at some point, if you read
the Old Testament. So I don'tknow. I've never really Not
(15:53):
never, but I feel like thatcategorical argument is hard to
make from scripture itself, andI think is more a category that
we've reimposed on scripturepost. But I think it But if you
buy that, and if that's a schemathat you're holding into, you
(16:14):
then do have to answer thequestion, why don't we observe
Sabbath?
But even if we don't hold ontothat schema, I do still think
that the fact that it is encodedin the 10 commandments does root
it as being somewhat core. It'snot like the law of like Don't
(16:39):
eat shellfish. Don't eatshellfish. Don't wear blended
fabrics. Don't the first year ofmarriage, the man's not allowed
to go off to war or leave hishomestead for a whole year.
Mhmm. Like, it's not one ofthose laws. It's one of the 10
commandments, rooted in creationand in the Exodus story,
reiterated a lot Mhmm. Tied intothe gospel story. Mhmm.
(17:05):
Like, it's it's not some smallsmall thing for us to dismiss.
Cameron (17:09):
Yeah. I I just think it becomes more difficult and
problematic to explain away thepractice of Sabbath than it does
to actually observe the Sabbath.Yeah. You gotta do more
theological, interpretive,hermeneutical gymnastics to jump
around. Yep.
Why wouldn't we? Especially inin this something that you said
(17:30):
this past week, especially in alike, understanding Sabbath as a
gift. Right. Like, if Sabbath isa gift given to us by God, then
who in their right mind would belike, yeah, I'm good on gifts
(17:51):
from God. I don't don't need anygift from God.
I don't want a gift from God. Iwould rather just work myself to
death death, and unite myselfwith the God of mammon Yeah. In
the world. Mhmm. Instead ofreceive a gift of God rooted in
the fabric of creation.
(18:12):
Yeah. So it just seems
Luke (18:14):
It is. That's the point, is essentially, we do have to
get down to a place of like, whyare you refusing Sabbath if it's
a gift? And like, you know,maybe there's a listener, you
know, you're like, you know,your life and your work and your
family is in such a way thatlike, you're working seven days
(18:37):
a week or something ridiculous.Yeah. Is there grace for where
you find yourself and whatyou're forced to do?
A %. Right? Mhmm. But at thesame time, I would say that the
people who literally are unableto observe Sabbath in a twenty
four hour period of rest fromall work and spending it in
(19:02):
delight and worship, is veryfew. I would say most people who
would come and say, Pastor Luke,Pastor Cameron, I cannot
practice Sabbath.
I am just simply too busy. Iwould say that most of those
people can. They are simplyunwilling to change their life
(19:27):
in such a way as to make itpossible.
Cameron (19:29):
Right. Right. Yeah. And right. And there may be days
where or weeks Yep.
Where my my schedule this weekYeah. Is such that, like, I
don't know that I'm gonna get afull, uninterrupted twenty four
(19:50):
hour period of time where I canlegitimately pursue Sabbath
rest.
Luke (19:56):
Mhmm.
Cameron (19:57):
The difference now being is because Jesus is Lord
of the Sabbath, I do not fallunder the curse of breaking that
law. Right. I fall under the lawof grace, the law of Jesus, and
there is a permissablenessthere.
Luke (20:17):
Yep.
Cameron (20:17):
Not not a taking advantage of the grace offered,
but a freedom from the legalismthat says, following the law to
a t is what makes you righteous.Yeah. I already am righteous. I
have the righteousness of Jesus.Mhmm.
Not righteousness of my own thatcomes from the law, so Paul
(20:39):
himself says, but arighteousness that comes by
faith.
Luke (20:42):
Yeah.
Cameron (20:45):
So, yeah, for me, it's like I'm I'm gonna take the
gift. I'm gonna celebrate thegift. If there's weeks that I
that the gift becomes or thatthe schedule becomes just
undoable, then Mhmm. I take whatof the gift I can. Yeah.
(21:05):
It's when we were preaching onprayer, we use the phrase pray
as you can, not as you can't.Right. And sometimes you need
the Sabbath as you can, not asyou can't.
Luke (21:15):
Right. Start where you're
Cameron (21:17):
at. Mhmm.
Luke (21:18):
You know, if that looks like, you know, your Saturday
morning, you know, you're ableto take just Saturday morning as
a Sabbath, start there. Yep. Youknow? If you're like, there's no
way I could do a twenty fourhour period. Okay.
Well, can you do like a six hourperiod, eight hour period?
Cameron (21:36):
Mhmm.
Luke (21:37):
You know? Let that be let that be something.
Cameron (21:41):
Mhmm.
Luke (21:42):
We were finishing up our Wednesday night study on Sabbath
last night, and we, for thatcurriculum, we've been using the
Practicing Away curriculum onSabbath by John Mark Comer and
his team, and they had a really,I think, helpful way of talking
about Sabbath. They said that intheir community, they've been
(22:06):
talking and practicing Sabbathso long that people have kind of
developed this slang forsomething that's Sabbath
adjacent, but not truly Sabbath.Mhmm. So like, a day where
you're like, oh, you start out,and you're like, you know, but
then you get distracted, and youdo the laundry, and you maybe do
some project work, and you'rekind of like, nah, and you kind
(22:28):
of not really, and then you endthe day with, like, you know,
binging a whole season of a showor something like that. Is they
they would call that Sabb ish.
Sabbish, not Sabbath.
Cameron (22:44):
Okay.
Luke (22:44):
You know, Sabbath like. And I think that that's a thing
that is a really trueexperience. I think if we're not
careful, Sabbaths can becomeSabbath like, very Sabbath ish,
(23:05):
where we're not truly practicingSabbath with the level of
intentionality that it actuallybrings life.
Cameron (23:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke (23:17):
What do you feel like are those things that, like, maybe
we that become part of in theSabbath that make it not as
intentional and life giving?Yeah. That kind of, like, turn
it more into a day off Yeah.Than a true Sabbath?
Cameron (23:36):
Well, I I I will always speak from my experience. Yeah.
But in the past, I have used mySabbath as a way to knock things
off my to do list at home. Mhmm.Things that I've been staring at
for weeks or months or whatever.
Yeah. And it's hard becausethere is a sense there's a sense
(23:56):
of like, oh, when I have theopportunity now to get to one of
those things
Luke (24:01):
Mhmm.
Cameron (24:01):
And knock it off the list, then I'm like, I feel so
good to have that done. Yeah. Atremendous sense of
accomplishment, or appreciation,or whatever. But in the midst of
doing it, it's just work, it'sjust like trying to get this
thing done. This is my onlytime, so to speak, that I have
to do it.
(24:21):
And so I I would say like doinghome projects and like chunking
things or checking things offthe list, that's one that's
sabbish for me.
Luke (24:32):
Yeah.
Cameron (24:36):
I think exercising is sabbish for me. Oh, really? Yep.
I do. Mhmm.
Part part of the reason that Ithink that is because Sabbath,
in a lot of ways, is thebreaking of a rhythm.
Luke (24:53):
Mhmm.
Cameron (24:55):
You know, it's like the ceasing and the stopping of what
your life is.
Luke (24:58):
Mhmm.
Cameron (24:59):
And a part of my regular rhythm and is exercising
Yeah. Every day. In the morning,usually. Sometimes twice a day.
Like, I was at the gym thismorning.
Luke (25:13):
Cameron's a gym pro, guys.
Cameron (25:15):
At 5AM. And before I go, well, maybe. I mean, we have
people coming over for dinner,so like, I don't I don't know
when I'm gonna get to it today.But they're like, I have another
workout in my program or in myschedule to prepare or to get
(25:35):
Mhmm. Ready for the marathon I'mprepping for.
Yeah. And is it necessary to doit? No. It's not necessary. I'm
not gonna shrivel up and die ifI don't.
It'll be alright.
Luke (25:51):
Yeah.
Cameron (25:53):
But it's still a part of who I am, that I do get in my
head a little bit about if Imiss a workout.
Luke (26:01):
Which is good, good on you.
Cameron (26:03):
Yeah. I really get in my head, and so I really push my
schedule and push my body to getthose things done. And I think
that it could be said that on aSabbath, that ex like
maintaining that rhythm Mhmm.And maintaining that schedule
(26:25):
for me is not a sufficientenough break with the world.
Yeah.
Or or not a sufficient enoughbreak with Your pattern. Culture
of my heart. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Luke (26:38):
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like home we were just talking about
home projects before we startedrecording, but, like, if there's
a magical home project thattakes an hour, maybe an hour and
a half. That could be Sabbathfor me, but those just don't
exist. Mhmm.
Like like, you know, like, bythe time you you're like, okay,
(27:01):
what do I gotta do? Figure out,okay, oh, I need to go to Home
Depot or wherever, Ace, and getand get X, Y, and Z to do the
project. You come back, startthe project. It doesn't take as,
you know, you're gettinginterrupted. Oh, there's that
thing that you oh, look, this isgonna be twice as big.
You know, projects never end upbeing simply an hour of your
(27:23):
time. Because there is a littlebit of truth to the adage of, if
you work with your mind, restwith your hands, and if you work
with your hands, rest with yourmind. There is, like, some truth
to that.
Cameron (27:41):
What if you do both?
Luke (27:42):
For what if you do both, you know? Then Yeah. You just
lay there. Sometimes
Cameron (27:47):
that's what I need. I feel like even that's what I
need today, so Yeah.
Luke (27:51):
But, you know so for me, sometimes, some physical labor,
some things around the house,but I know that that can easily
for me, that can easily turnfrom like a forty five minute
project into, where did my wholeday go?
Cameron (28:05):
Yeah.
Luke (28:06):
And then I I don't feel very rested.
Cameron (28:09):
Well, I will say too that, like, there's physical
activity that you that I couldprobably do, that I know I could
do that would not be Sabbish,but would be Sabbath. Mhmm. I
don't know why I didn't think ofthis when I was talking before,
but that's exactly Sherry and I,last Friday, we got the kids off
to school on the bus, and wepacked a we packed a bag, and we
(28:32):
went for a long hike in theAllegheny National Forest, no
cell service, beautiful weather,just the two of us. Hiked six
miles into a lake, hiked backout, had lunch, and it was
physically demanding, but itwasn't like a, Oh, I'm
Luke (28:56):
here You're not lifting rocks a smelly warehouse, you
know? No.
Cameron (29:02):
You're just like, I was enjoying the company of my wife,
I was enjoying the company ofcreation, I was enjoying the
company, like the presence ofthe Lord, out in the fresh air,
no pressure. Yeah. Just there toenjoy. Yep. To delight.
Stuff like that. Yep. Is whatwork is like. That could be for
me.
Luke (29:22):
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I think for me, the thing that is most
easily I love spending time withpeople. I think sometimes it
depends on where my socialbattery is, and who the people
are sometimes.
Like, if I'm going into a socialsituation what's on what's
(29:43):
supposed to be my Sabbath, andI'm like, there's gonna be a lot
of I don't really know thepeople super well, or their
acquaintances, or, you know, orsomething. Like, it's going to
require more of my socialbattery.
Cameron (29:57):
Mhmm.
Luke (29:57):
That does not typically that's usually more savvish. I
might even walk away saying, oh,that was kind of fun. Mhmm. But
I don't feel rested. Feel morelike like a drained Energizer
bunny.
Or I think the thing that ismore likely to sneak in and
steal my Sabbath is like, I needto find language for this,
(30:22):
because everyone knows what I'mtalking about, but I've not
quite really found the term forit in English. But kind of this
I think it's when we engage withentertainment in a mindless or
(30:44):
over consumptive way. So likebinging a TV show, scrolling on
my phone, playing video gamesfor hours on end. Now, part of
my story and even what I sharedfrom my last sermon was that
actually, like, Friday nightmovies with my dad, sitting down
(31:04):
with a bowl of popcorn watchinga classic movie was like, for
me, an early identification oflike, that was Sabbath for me.
Like, that was a routine andhabit that was in my family that
like, brought a lot of joy,goodness into my life.
But that wasn't sitting down andwatching like, a Netflix or Hulu
(31:27):
show that's like, you know,thirty minute episodes or forty
five minute episodes, andwatching six of them in a row or
something like that. It wassitting down, watching something
that had been created with someintentionality and artistry, and
(31:49):
even talking about it. And therewere some boundaries to it. It
wasn't like I was doing thatevery night. This was something
I was doing especially with mydad on Friday nights.
And so there is a point for mewhere playing a video game for
an hour or two, or watching agood movie or something, can be
(32:12):
really restful, restorative, andbring joy to me. But when it
starts to become mindless, andI'm using it to escape, or numb
out, or it like, gets into thislength, it it does not it ceases
to become it becomes sabbish forme, and I walk away feeling more
(32:32):
less attuned Mhmm. Not moreattuned to my environment and
myself. There's like a fine linefor that. For some people
Cameron (32:41):
It's a volume.
Luke (32:42):
Yeah, exactly. And for some people, you just gotta
avoid all digital media. For me,that's not necessarily the
thing, you know? If I because Ienjoy watching a really good
movie, and sitting down, anddiscussing it, and thinking
about it. But I know that that'snot everybody.
(33:03):
It kinda drives my wife nuts.She'll we'll be watching like a
I don't know, some sort of likethriller or something, and she's
just like, oh my gosh, what ifthat person dies? And I was
like, I won't. They're theywon't. They're top billed on the
on the they're like theadvertised star.
They're not gonna die in themovie. They're like, shut up. I
have a tendency of ruiningmovies from people sometimes,
(33:25):
but so I think I think that Idon't know. I think media
definitely can get its hooks,because that's our default way
of relaxing, but it's notnecessarily a good way to
Sabbath.
Cameron (33:42):
No. Mm-mm. No. Yeah. I think the whole series on
Sabbath, the press into Sabbathhas been timely Mhmm.
And from the Lord. I don't Idon't think that it is like a,
(34:04):
oh, we just picked a spiritualtopic out of thin air. I think
it No. Goes from the Lord. I'mkinda eager to continue with it
now that there's somewhat of abase Mhmm.
Or a foundation that's been laidYep. In the church, and see
where see where it goes fromhere for all of us, even just
(34:25):
myself.
Luke (34:26):
Yeah. Me too. I I do think that it we talked about this, I
think, last time, was just howmuch the topic kind of surprised
us, and how much there was tokind of talk about, and even
just unpack, and how culturallyopposed we've become to Sabbath.
Cameron (34:46):
Yeah. Yeah. The pushback, and then really eye
opening and revealing to me as apastor. So thanks for listening
to this episode Mhmm. And allthe previous episodes on Sabbath
and prayer and the things thatwe've been preaching on lately.
We're gonna be taking a breakfrom a regular series over the
(35:08):
next three weeks in on Sundays.Be preaching on Palm Sunday this
week, and then Good Friday, andEaster Sunday, and then the
last, week of the month here inApril, we're preaching on
baptism, we have a baptismservice coming up. So and then
we're into a series on Exodus.So I imagine that you're gonna
get a lot of Exodus materialhere Mhmm. On the podcast during
(35:31):
that time.
So Yeah. The spring and summer.
Luke (35:33):
Yep. Or parables.
Cameron (35:35):
Or parables. That's right. To turn the parables on
Wednesday night, that'd be agreat class.
Luke (35:39):
Yeah. So
Cameron (35:41):
Oh, also, I do have to say, someone did, just like off
the cuff, out of the blue, hadno idea they watched the
podcast, said, hey, thanks formaking your speech a little bit
quicker. And then they laughed.Like, alright. Okay. Thanks.
You're welcome. You're welcome.I'm gonna continue to try to
(36:03):
speak more quickly, because onreplay, recognizing how slowly I
speak, but
Luke (36:09):
We just we'll count it up to thoughtfulness. Sounds good.
Cameron (36:12):
Alright. Thanks. We'll catch you on the next one.
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