March 17, 2025 • 40 mins
Sabbath, an outdated practice for the ultra conservative? A thing Jesus did away with? This episode Cameron and Luke unpack how sabbath may be just what we have been looking for.
- (00:00) - Introduction
- (04:28) - Introducing the Sabbath Series
- (05:48) - Understanding Sabbath's Importance
- (08:14) - Misconceptions About Sabbath
- (10:29) - Jesus and the Sabbath
- (12:01) - The Gift of Sabbath
- (15:49) - Legalism vs. Compassion
- (18:59) - The Consequences of Ignoring Sabbath
- (22:37) - The Purpose of the Law
- (28:37) - Ignoring the Gift of Sabbath
- (35:13) - Sabbath as an Anchor
- (38:33) - Anticipating the Sabbath Series
- (39:27) - Conclusion and Feedback Request
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Luke (00:07):
Welcome to the Uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. And
I'm pastor Cameron. And this isthe Uncut podcast where we have
honest, uncut conversationsabout faith, life, and ministry.
We do.
We're gonna begin to have themquickly, more quickly than we
have in the past.
Cameron (00:25):
As I was telling Luke today, I recommended this
podcast to a friend, and so whenI sent him the link, I just
clicked on it, be like, oh, youknow, I don't because I don't
often go back and listen to ourown podcasts because Yeah. We
were here.
Luke (00:41):
Right.
Cameron (00:41):
I was here in the room. I don't I don't need to know the
content.
Luke (00:44):
We said the things.
Cameron (00:45):
We said the things. Right? So I don't often go back
and listen to them, but I justhappened to, because it was like
up on my phone. And as I waslistening to it, I was like,
dear heavens, Cameron Linehart,you are the slowest talker in
the history of talkers. Like, Iwas literally boring myself with
(01:05):
my own podcast.
And so, I just need to say toall of our listeners or viewers
out there, I am sorry. Like, ifthere is any way that we can go
back into all of our podcastsand re edit them, we will speed
up my speech by two times andleave Luke's the same as it is.
And then maybe it will bemarginally listenable. But, oh
(01:31):
my goodness. I'm gonna stoptrying to be so because what I
was saying before we startedYeah.
Is that I'm not intentionallyspeaking slowly, at least in my
head, but what I'm trying to dois just be thoughtful. And not
just not just verbal diarrheaout everywhere.
Luke (01:52):
Yeah. Well, that's that's what I always assumed. Well,
because now I feel somewhatembarrassed too, because you
asked me before we turned themics on, Luke, do I always just
talk that slow? And I was kindalike, I mean, like, on the
podcast, you do. Like, I justthought you'd listened back to
the couple Here we are,
Cameron (02:07):
81 episodes in, and I'm just learning this. Like,
Luke (02:12):
so Need to work on my feedback.
Cameron (02:14):
Yeah. If we like, I'm sorry people. I am sorry. Okay?
I will speak more quickly.
As in as much as I'm able to.Yeah. Or if not, just put it on
two x and listen to it that way.
Luke (02:28):
Yeah. You'll you'll oscillate between my speech
pattern and Cameron's speech.
Cameron (02:33):
Oh my goodness. It's so embarrassing. Anyway, here we
are.
Luke (02:38):
Here we are.
Cameron (02:39):
Back in the studio, ready to pick up a new series. I
I I guess, we have beenpreaching in prayer the last
it's been I think we did fiveFive sermons on prayer We did.
Prayer, and one on fasting,which I just considered to be
(02:59):
the same as prayer. And now, weare going into a series on
Sabbath, which is the other halfof our yearly focus for the
year, spiritual focus for theyear here at Conduit. And if you
haven't been around Conduit tohear it, or know what we've been
(03:22):
talking about in prayer, we'vekind of communicated prayer as
an invitation to intimacy withGod.
As we seek God's face, prayer isa way that we enter into deeper
intimacy with Him. Yep. And now,as we go into Sabbath, Sabbath
is a way that we don't that wecreate space
Luke (03:41):
Mhmm.
Cameron (03:42):
To seek the Lord, to seek His face. Yes. And
actually, I think kind of one ofthe things that I wanna talk
about this morning, you've beendoing most of the preparation
for the Sabbath series, becauseyou're preaching most of it.
Yeah. But one of the things thatI wanted to talk about this
morning was we don't createspace for Sabbath.
God has given us the space.Mhmm. It's our it's our choice
(04:04):
or our responsibility to stepinto it. Yeah. So and so I don't
know if you have, since, like Isaid, since you've been doing
most of the preparation for theseries, if you have a specific
direction where you'd like tostart this episode, or if you
want to jump right into thisscripture that I have open, or
(04:26):
what do you want to do?
Luke (04:28):
Well, I mean, I think just where you kind of started there
is, like, maybe we just startwith that basic concept of
Sabbath is creating because,like, our full theme, right, is
seeking God through prayer andSabbath. Seeking God's face.
Seeking God's face throughprayer and Sabbath. And so we
talked a lot about seeking God'sface. We talked about prayer,
(04:49):
and Sabbath is, like, in a lotof people's minds, I just think
people don't even know how toconceptually think about
Sabbath.
Cameron (04:59):
Not in a modern way. No. It's an old relic of
religious life that they're notexactly sure what to do with in
modern society.
Luke (05:08):
Right. And we've kind of let it go to the side. We're
just like, that's old relic. Wedon't have to do it anymore. And
so then we're left with notSabbath, which is like our daily
seven days a week, seven elevengrind, you know?
And that's leading to a placewhere I think we're we've we've
(05:33):
run out of space for God, or forconnecting with him, and also
just other important things andgifts that God gives us, like
our family, like our values, andthings like that, I think as
well. So, yeah, I don't know.Let's let's start maybe with the
passage that you've got in frontit, that you've got over.
Cameron (05:55):
Okay. So it's in Mark chapter two, and this is one of
my favorite passages on Sabbathin the New Testament. So I'm in
Mark two verses 23 through 28,one Sabbath, Jesus was going
through the grain fields, andhis disciples walked along. They
(06:16):
began to pick some heads ofgrain, and the Pharisees said to
him, look. Why are you doingwhat is unlawful on the Sabbath?
He answered, have you never readwhat David did when he and his
companions were hungry and inneed? In the days of Abiathar
the high priest, he entered thehouse of God and ate the
(06:36):
consecrated bread, which islawful only for priests to eat,
and he also gave some to hiscompanions. Then he said to
them, the Sabbath was made forman, not man for Sabbath. So the
son of man is Lord even of theSabbath. Mhmm.
So this is one of the moreinstructive passages to me in my
(07:00):
kind of understanding ortheology around Sabbath Yeah. Is
that instead of it beingsomething that becomes a instead
of it being something thatbecomes a weight Yeah. That we
must bear Mhmm. It becomes afreedom and a gift that we get
(07:25):
to receive Yep. And walk in.
Yeah. And I think that that'sessentially how Jesus summarized
what he said here, the Sabbathwas made for man, not man for
Sabbath, but that's what he wascommunicating really in his back
(07:46):
and forth with the Pharisees inthe story as well.
Luke (07:48):
Yeah. Well, this is the thing, is I will talk about this
passage quite a bit once I getto it in the sermon series on
Sabbath, because I think asinstructive and helpful and life
giving as this passage is, it isalso, I think, the root of one
of the reasons that we'veneglected Sabbath. Think we've
(08:10):
misunderstood this passage. Sowhen we read this, right, we're
like, maybe we have in our mindsa picture of Sabbath that is
like, oh, Sabbath means it'sthis old way of doing Sunday,
where you go to church twice,you don't really do anything
(08:32):
fun, you sit in some old woodenpews, you just kind of listen to
the preacher preach. It's justkind of a drudgery.
It's this day in which you'renot allowed to do any of the
things that you want to do orcan do. A lot of things are
closed. It's just kind of thisday that just kind of like,
blah. Right? If you have thiskind of like very legalistic
(08:52):
sense of what Sabbath is, weread this, and then we're like,
oh, what did Jesus say?
He said that, okay, Sabbath ismade for man, not man for the
Sabbath. He's the Lord of theSabbath. Oh, so Jesus is telling
the Pharisees who were observingthe law and like making, you
(09:15):
know, Sabbath this big deal,he's like, oh, look. Jesus is
saying you don't have to payattention to any of the rules
when it comes to Sabbath. Right.
So I should be able to do what Iwant on Sabbath on Sunday. Mhmm.
So it's it's a thing I actuallydon't have to kind of keep or
worry about. And so, like, withthat freedom, we just say, oh,
(09:36):
well, you know, it if I want towork on Sundays, that's fine, or
I want to work on Sabbath orwhatever. It's okay if I don't
practice Sabbath, because Jesusis the Lord of the Sabbath.
He did away with it here in thispassage, because he said, look,
oh, all the rules you're makingabout this, these are silly. You
know, man was created forSabbath, not Sabbath for man.
(09:58):
That just means there are norules when it comes to this, so
I'm free. And then we don'tpractice Sabbath at all. We just
kind of go about doing our life,and you know, we take we we go
to church on Sunday, and while Iwent to church, that means I've
practiced Sabbath, you know, asmuch as I maybe need to, or
something like that.
(10:18):
And so I think that that's thepopular understanding of this
passage, and I think the reasonultimately why practice of
Sabbath has fallen apart. Sopreach for us a little
Cameron (10:31):
bit the sermon that you're gonna preach on this
about what we how do weinternalize or kind of step into
what Jesus was saying when hesaid, I am the Lord of the
Sabbath. The son of man is theLord of the Sabbath.
Luke (10:49):
Oh. So the son of man is the Lord even of the Sabbath.
That is
Cameron (10:58):
I would say it maybe vis a vis how it has become
understood, meaning like, oh,since Jesus is Lord of the
Sabbath, I don't really have topractice it, because I just
follow Jesus, or whatever.
Luke (11:12):
Yeah, so that's what I think yeah, so exactly how you
said it. I think we read that,and we see the son of man is the
Lord of the even the Sabbath.That means Jesus has, like, got
control over it. He's trumpingit. He's trumping it, and so
therefore, I follow Jesus, so Idon't have to follow the I don't
have
Cameron (11:31):
to practice
Luke (11:31):
Sabbath. That is not what Jesus is saying here. There's
other passages where Jesus saysfamously, I did not come to
abolish the law. Right? I cameto fulfill Right?
And that's not just a fancy wayof saying, I've also abolished
it. It's a way
Cameron (11:48):
of like, it is more complete in me than elsewhere.
Jesus becomes the Jesus becomeslike the lens Mhmm. That we see
the law in, and we practice thelaw in. Exactly.
Luke (12:02):
And so when he says, I am the Lord even of the Sabbath,
he's saying that I am thecomplete, like, I am fulfilling
the Sabbath. Not in a way thatit's fulfilled and it's done
with, but it is in a morecomplete sense in me. And so
when he's talking about Lord ofthe Sabbath, that's a huge not
(12:26):
only is the Son of Man adivinity claim, like, it's a
claim of being the messiahship,but to say that he's the lord of
the Sabbath. Who started theSabbath? Mhmm.
God on the seventh day ofcreation. Mhmm. When he said he
would rest it, he stopped. Mhmm.That word stop, Sabbath means to
stop.
(12:48):
And it's like most literal andwooden interpretation of it. It
means to just stop, to rest. Andthat's the same thing that the
Lord did on the seventh day. Hestopped. And and all throughout
the Old Testament, Sabbath isbrought up over and over and
over again.
It's one it's one of the 10commandments. I think we forget
(13:09):
that sometimes, that we're like,well, isn't that just part of
like the the Levitical code andstuff? It's all the extra stuff
that got added on or somethinglike Right. But no, it was one
of the 10 commandments thatMoses brought. The Sabbath day
and keep it holy.
Right? It it was that importantthat it may was made onto the 10
(13:30):
commandments. And we think thatthis passage means, oh, well,
this is one of the 10commandments we can ignore.
Whereas, like, we generallydon't don't ignore the rest of
the 10. And so Jesus here, whenhe says he's the lord of the
Sabbath, he's saying, like, I'mbringing about a more true,
(13:51):
fulfilled full understanding ofwhat Sabbath is.
Mhmm. Not that Sabbath goesaway, but that Sabbath is going
to be practiced and understoodin a more complete sense if you
follow me. Right.
Cameron (14:05):
Right. I also see it as a yeah. Exactly. And I guess
it's not I'm just saying maybewhat I would say here would be
saying the same thing, maybejust a little bit more snarkly,
is that Jesus' response to thepharisees is like, you don't get
(14:26):
to define the Sabbath. Itdoesn't belong to you.
Well, I mean, it does in a sensethat it's the gift. Yes. But it
didn't originate with you. Itoriginated with the father, of
which he he and I are one,essentially. And so Jesus is
like, if anyone gets to definewhat what is allowed to be done
on the Sabbath, it's me, notyou.
Luke (14:47):
Yeah. Well, they had gotten to this place, like the
context here, right, is thePharisees and the practitioners
of the law, they had gotten tothis place where they were like,
we don't want to dishonor theSabbath. We want to keep it
holy. And so we better make surethat we stay very, very far away
(15:08):
from
Cameron (15:09):
Dishonoring it.
Luke (15:10):
Dishonoring it. Yeah. And so they came up with all these
other rules of things thatthey're like, okay, well, we
can't do that on the Sabbathbecause that could be
misconstrued as work. Mhmm. Oneof the other interactions that
Jesus has with the Phariseesaround Sabbath is Jesus heals a
man.
Mhmm. Heals a couple people onSabbath.
Cameron (15:29):
Quite a few.
Luke (15:30):
Quite a few. Mhmm. And the Pharisees always get really mad.
Right. And Jesus is trying topoint out to them, trying to
show them, he's like, you guyshave come up with so many rules
about not doing things onSabbath that you're up set that
I'm doing a really, really goodthing.
Cameron (15:49):
A righteous thing.
Luke (15:49):
A righteous thing on the Sabbath.
Cameron (15:51):
Was trying to find that. Do you
Luke (15:52):
know the reference for that? I don't off the top of my
head. I think it is it in Luke,where there's the beautiful it's
the the pool named Beautiful or
Cameron (16:04):
Gates Beautiful or whatever. Yeah.
Luke (16:08):
But there's so there's that. We were even we were just
listening last night in ourpracticing the way class on
prayer, which is by John MarkComer. It's a small group series
that we've been going through asa church, and he shared that
(16:28):
praying intercessory prayer,praying for other people was one
of the things that Orthodox Jewsdon't do because it's considered
work, you know, on the Sabbath.And so you would stay you
wouldn't even pray for otherpeople, because that would be
considered doing a work on theSabbath. Mhmm.
(16:48):
And that's just that's whatthat's the context that Jesus is
coming into. Did you find thatpassage?
Cameron (16:54):
There I found one of them was He heals the crippled
woman on Sabbath. This is Luke13. On Sabbath, Jesus was
teaching in one of thesynagogues, and a woman there
who had been crippled by aspirit for eighteen years, she
was bent over and could notstraighten up at all. We should
talk more about that, crippledby a spirit. I have more
questions about that kind ofstuff too.
(17:16):
Yeah. Because I'm just like,okay, pause Sabbath
conversation. I've been doing mydevotions in the Old Testament,
and reading lately in first andsecond Samuel.
Luke (17:27):
Okay. Yeah.
Cameron (17:29):
And the whole There's a lot there. The whole, like, and
the Lord sent an evil spirit totorment Saul.
Luke (17:39):
Mhmm.
Cameron (17:42):
Come again?
Luke (17:43):
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Cameron (17:46):
Like, what? Mhmm. Anyway. Okay. Press play on the
Sabbath conversation again, butI wanna talk about spirits used
in that way at some point.
Yeah. So there was a woman whowas crippled by a spirit for
(18:06):
eighteen years. She was bentover and could not straighten up
at all. When Jesus saw her, hecalled her forward and said to
her, woman, you are set freefrom your infirmity. Then he put
his hands on her, andimmediately she straightened up
and praised God.
Indignant because Jesus hadhealed on the Sabbath, the
synagogue ruler said to thepeople, there are six days for
work, so come and be healed onthose days, not on the Sabbath.
(18:31):
The Lord answered him, youhypocrites, doesn't each of you
on the Sabbath untie his ox ordonkey from the stall and lead
it out to give it water? Thenshould then should not this
woman, a daughter of Abraham,whom Satan has kept bound for
eighteen long years, Jesusconnects the spirit with Satan,
be set free on the Sabbath dayfrom what has bound her? When he
(18:53):
said this, all of his opponentswere humiliated, but the people
were delighted with thewonderful things that he was
doing. So Right.
Yeah. Certainly, there was asense that there was a sense
that in Jesus for that therewas, like you said, there was a
(19:16):
highly legalistic attitude toit, which was similar to the way
that the Pharisees kind ofoperated in relation to all of
the law.
Luke (19:26):
All of it. Tithing, tithing out of their spies,
know, all that kind of stuff.
Cameron (19:30):
Is that in accordance to the letter of the law,
perfect in all ways
Luke (19:36):
Mhmm.
Cameron (19:36):
But missing the spirit of the laws. And so Jesus came
to, in a sense now he didn'tcome to do this, but in his
ministry and in his life, he didintegrate, or he allowed the
spirit of the law to maybedefine or qualify the letter of
(20:03):
the law. And so that's kind ofhow I look at Jesus in the
gospels as it pertains toSabbath, is that he's always
bringing clarity to themisappropriation of religiosity
(20:25):
of the Pharisees. Yeah. You youhave heard that it was said, but
I say Right.
Throughout the whole Sermon onthe Mount, and in instances of
the Sabbath, was like, hey,yeah, guys, listen. I I get it,
you know, maybe to the letter,but don't you, like, untie your
(20:45):
ox or donkey and take it todrink. And so why wouldn't we do
something Compassionate.Compassionate of the Lord,
breaking in the king breakinginto the kingdom, and do that on
the Sabbath. Like, it's notrighteous things are good on the
(21:07):
Sabbath
Luke (21:08):
Right.
Cameron (21:08):
Whether they're considered work by the letter of
the law or not.
Luke (21:12):
Yes. So Jesus is I think that's the reason why, like, if
we were still in the context ofJesus, where we were like,
having really legalistic, likewe were in a church culture, Our
church type of churches that,you know, nondenominational
evangelical churches, don'ttypically have a legalistic
(21:36):
approach to Sabbath. In in anegative sense. In a negative
sense. Right?
We're not we're not
Cameron (21:43):
fairseaical about it.
Luke (21:44):
We're not fairs fairseaical about We're not in
this space of, like, being like,oh, well, you can't do that,
like, in like in in in anythinglike that. And so our context is
rather the opposite. Correct.We've gotten to this place where
we've ignored the Sabbath to agreat detriment of ourselves,
(22:04):
and so we hear Jesus' wordshere, and we just assume, oh,
well, he's still just talking tous in our same context, Where
the context has changed, andJesus would probably have
something very different to say.Actually, he would have
something probably similar tosay, I'm gonna have to pull up
my notes here, Because there'ssomething that's really, I
(22:27):
think, telling about what theSabbath is, and what it's meant
to mean that comes out in theOld Testament.
I need to look at my list ofpassages here. Alright. If we go
to can you pull up Lamentationstwo six? Oh, deep cut. Yeah.
(22:52):
Deep cut.
Cameron (22:54):
You know, I'll say this about something that you just
said is that is that it Sabbathis like it's like the only
commandment that we, in theevangelical church, that not
(23:19):
only do we not what am I doing?I'm going the wrong way. Not
only do we not how did you putit? Like, we're not pharisaical
in our practice of Sabbath, butyou said we've it.
Luke (23:37):
We've ignored it.
Cameron (23:38):
Yeah. In evangelicalism, we have ignored
it, and I think it actually goesbeyond that. And we haven't just
ignored it. Mhmm. We've mockedit.
Oh, yeah. You know, like, andso, it hasn't just become this
thing where we've like forgottenthat it exists. It's become this
(23:58):
thing where we have where wehave, when you bring up Sabbath,
it gets snickered at. Mhmm. Itgets like Why
Luke (24:15):
would you do that?
Cameron (24:15):
Why would you do that? Where, like, or I couldn't
possibly find the time, or like,oh, yeah. I I mean, Sabbath is
great for people who don't havekids and full time jobs, but for
Oh, yeah. But for the rest ofus, people Yeah. Like, we just
don't have time.
No. We don't have time toSabbath. Mhmm. You a pastor here
(24:41):
in front of you struggling tofind Lamentations right Well,
Luke (24:44):
while you're trying to find Lamentations, I looked up
Hosea two. So Hosea is he'sHosea two is particularly harsh
passage of judgment. So he'sdescribing Israel, and he's he's
(25:09):
in verse seven, he says, she,talking about Israel, shall
pursue her lovers, but notovertake them. And she shall
seek them, and she shall notfind. Then she shall say, I will
go and return to my firsthusband, for it is better for me
it was better for me then thannow.
And she did not know that it wasI who gave her the grain, the
(25:30):
wine, and the oil, who lavishedher silver and gold, which they
used for bale. Therefore, I willtake back my grain in its time
and my wine in its season, and Iwill take the wool and my flax,
which were to cover hernakedness. So God right now in
this passage is saying, Israelhas pursued other gods, has
(25:50):
chased after other gods than me,has thought that she would get
kind of comparing her to anunfaithful wife in this passage,
and he's saying, I'm going tobring about judgment. I'm gonna
actually take away all theblessings, kind of like, he's
kind of saying, like, she's beenan unfaithful wife, but I've
(26:12):
allowed her to keep the creditcard. I'm taking the credit card
away.
Don't don't stretch my analogyhere too harshly. But then he
says, verse 10, he says, now Iwill uncover her lewdness in the
sight of her lovers, and no oneshall rescue her out of my hand.
So it's a very violent passagehere where he's saying, like,
she's going to be disgraced. Andthen verse 11 is the pass is the
(26:36):
verse I really wanted to get to,and it says, and I will put an
end to all her mirth, all herfeasts, her new her new moons,
and her Sabbaths, and all herappointed feasts. Part of God's
punishment to Israel is theremoval of Sabbaths.
Mhmm. I'm gonna take away alltheir holidays, all her
(26:58):
celebrations, all of herSabbaths. Like, it was a
punishment to have Sabbathremoved. Did you find that
Lamentations passage?
Cameron (27:11):
I did end up finding Lamentations in the Bible. Yes.
Luke (27:14):
You did? Okay.
Cameron (27:14):
It's right after Jeremiah. It is indeed. But for
whatever reason, it's like mypages pages were sticking
together, and I was trying totalk at the same time. So what
was the actual reference? Twosix.
Two six. He has laid waste hisdwelling like a garden. He has
destroyed his place of meeting.The Lord has made Zion forget
(27:36):
her appointed feasts andSabbaths. In his fierce anger,
he has spurned both king andpriest.
Luke (27:44):
Yeah. Yeah. So these are two judgment passages on Israel
before they go into exile,because they've been pursuing
false gods. And part of we'relike, oh, exile is the
punishment.
Cameron (27:58):
It's part of the But
Luke (28:00):
also part of the punishment, as articulated in
two of these passages, is theremoval of Sabbath.
Cameron (28:07):
Yeah. It'd be like if you sent your kid to your room
as a punishment, and then tooktheir iPad
Luke (28:13):
Right. As well. Yes. Exactly.
Cameron (28:16):
So it's like, you're still going to your room as a
punishment, and on top of it,I'm taking the thing.
Luke (28:20):
Yeah. And the irony is, is that God hasn't taken Sabbath
from us, but we've just ignoredit. Yeah. We've put ourselves,
by ignoring Sabbath, we have putourselves in a position of
experiencing punishment. We arepunishing our own selves by
(28:41):
ignoring the gift of Sabbath.
Cameron (28:43):
Yeah. That's a good word. That's gonna preach.
Luke (28:46):
Yeah. That's gonna preach hard.
Cameron (28:49):
You better come hard with that.
Luke (28:51):
It's like that's but that's what it is. It's a gift
that we have just, for somereason, said no to Mhmm. In
order to say yes to busyness,hurried, schedules that are
filled, like Even good thingsthat come from the world.
Cameron (29:09):
Yeah. We've chosen good things
Luke (29:13):
Mhmm.
Cameron (29:13):
That come from the world that are not the good
thing that comes from the Lord.Yep. Yeah. What maybe as a
tangential question, butsomewhat similar. This is a
really this is not a verycomplicated or nuanced question
(29:33):
at all, so don't worry.
Okay. What was the purpose ofthe law?
Luke (29:42):
I mean, there's that passage where Paul talks about
the purpose of the What did Paulsay the purpose of law? Well, it
was to train righteousness.
Cameron (29:48):
Train us okay. So to be a mirror in which we can see our
own sin.
Luke (29:53):
Yeah. Right. It it it likes at least on this side of
it. Right? Yeah.
That's what the purpose of thelaw becomes, is it becomes an
illustration. It it shows us ourown failings and inability to
keep the law and the necessityfor Christ. And do we
Cameron (30:10):
think that that was always and always the only
purpose? Like, I mean, even justthinking about like Levitical
law. Yeah. And like theextraordinary restrictions put
on the people for purity,cleanliness, life, diet I mean,
Luke (30:29):
I don't think so. I I don't like, I think that's
always maybe been a portion ofit, right, is a reminder that we
are unclean. Mhmm. That in ourstandard way of being, we're not
worthy to be with God. But thenalso, parts of the law,
(30:53):
including the Sabbath, weredemarkers to remind the
Israelite people that they weregods.
Right? So circumcision, Sabbath,there's a couple others that
were like this is like a not asense of burden, but a sense of
pride, because it distinguishesme from the other nations. Mhmm.
(31:17):
To say like, well, I live thisway because I'm God's. Right.
And that and so that wasn't aburden. That was a that was a
gift. God's given me a differentway to live, and it means that
I'm His. So I don't think thatour think we still this is
(31:39):
really getting deep in the weedshere but I still think we very
much struggle with the overinterpretation of pharisaical
and Old Testament law from aMedieval context when the
reformers came. Talking aboutdeep cut.
Yeah. So when Martin Luther andCalvin and all of them were
(32:01):
doing all of their reforming,they were interpreting a lot of
Paul's and Jesus' teachingsagainst some of the pharisaical
behavior of the Catholic church.And so still to this day Like
overreacting. Overreacting,right? And so to this day, when
(32:22):
we read law, we can sometimesinsert Catholicism, or something
like that.
And we look at the OldTestament, and we see it as
being essentially this Marcionheresy. So Marcion was this
(32:42):
early heretic in the earlychurch who believed that there
was the mean God of the OldTestament, and Jesus was the new
God, and he was the nice God.And if you just kind of get this
idea that God suddenly changedhis face with Jesus. He suddenly
became this nice God, and thatthere's this dichotomy between
(33:07):
that, that was an early heresy.That's still repeated all over
the place.
It's a heresy that's continuedto live. It's just called other
things now. I just don't believethat that's a true
representation. I think when weread the Old Testament, we see
that God is loving, He's kind,He's patient, He's forbearing,
(33:28):
that He's the law was not meantto be this really mean, ugly,
nasty thing that was a burdenupon the people. Mhmm.
That it was generally seen andperceived as a gift. Mhmm. That
it wasn't just this, like
Cameron (33:42):
Mhmm.
Luke (33:43):
Wasn't being this like taskmaster. Right. It's very
just a like Yeah. A good thing.Mhmm.
Cameron (33:52):
Yeah. I've always seen it, and in the same in the same
way as, like, on the on thisside of the law, yeah, it is a
thing that has it's been amirror that has revealed our sin
Mhmm. And our need for a savior.Yeah. Cannot measure up to the
standard of God's holiness onour own.
(34:14):
We need the righteousness ofJesus to do that for us. Excuse
me. But similar to what you saidthere, you didn't use these
words, but you said the samething, is that the law was for
the people. It was an anchor ofconsecration. Yeah.
(34:35):
It is what anchored them asseparate from the pagan nations
around them. And there is stilla not even a significant, that
still is true for the people ofGod now.
Luke (34:55):
Mhmm.
Cameron (34:55):
Even the engrafted branches as Gentile believers
into the people of God. Thereare aspects about our life, and
our practice, and our beliefsthat are anchors for
consecration in a world of paganbelief. And not just pagan
belief, like pagan belief in OldTestament worship of false gods
(35:18):
or whatever, but pagan beliefaround like love, who who is
worthy, who who should we loveand not love. The pagan world,
we we love those who love us.Mhmm.
We love our friends. Yeah. Youknow? We don't love those. We
don't love our enemies, and wecertainly don't pray for them,
or forgiveness, or generosity,or mercy, or compassion, or
(35:43):
aspects of our not aspects ofour sexual morality and sexual
Like, the law of God, the wordof God, both in the law and in
the New Testament Mhmm.
Is becomes an anchor forconsecration that defines us as
separate Mhmm. Set apart forspecial purpose by use of God
(36:04):
for the building of his kingdom.And so, it is not meant as a
yoke of punishment or weight.It's a thing that sets us apart,
and makes us different from theworld around around us, and
defines us as I'm set apart forhim. Right.
We're set apart for him.
Luke (36:23):
Yeah. We're gonna start sounding like fundamentalists in
a second.
Cameron (36:26):
Let's I'll start pounding this pulpit.
Luke (36:30):
Well, that's I think that's the thing is that we've
veered so much into this realmof wanting to not seem like
we're different. Oh, look, I'mjust exactly like you, except I
go to church on Sundays. Yeah.And what we've done is we've
left aside all the things thatGod has given us to be distinct
(36:53):
because they're unpopular, andwe will be canceled for them or
something like that. You know?
Not all I don't think everybodylives in fear of being canceled,
but I think that, like, I Ithink it does when it comes to
people's view of sexuality.
Cameron (37:07):
Mhmm. Right? You you are really not allowed to have a
public a different view, adifferent perspective of human
sexuality in the public realmYeah. Than the prevailing
opinions of Right. The world.
Yeah. You're not allowed to.
Luke (37:27):
Even regardless the fact that we're in the middle of,
like, this will time stamp us alittle bit, but, like, even
though we're in the middle of aworld where for at least four
years, there seems to be a tophead leaning towards a more
conservative view of sexuality,but I don't know that that's out
of a Christ whatever. But likeYeah. Right. You know, but
(37:50):
still, the prevailing culturehas been, like, permissive
towards sexuality, and I thinkit will continue that way,
regardless of whatever the blipof social Mhmm. Upheaval and
turmoil we're in the middle of.
Cameron (38:04):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. So, I said all that. I asked the
question about the, like, thethe laws and anchor of
consecration
Luke (38:14):
Mhmm.
Cameron (38:15):
To say Sabbath is just that thing as well. Yes. That
when the rest of the world isrunning like a chicken with its
head cut off, a % of the time,Sabbath is the thing that marks
us out as different. Exactly.
Luke (38:30):
It's it's meant to make us look a little weird.
Cameron (38:33):
Mhmm. Yeah. I I said at the beginning of the year, like,
am prepared I'm prepare for meto make it weird this year. I'm
gonna make it weird this year.I'm going all in.
Yeah. Well, I am excited forthis series. Honestly, part of
(38:54):
the reason I'm excited is that Ifeel like you're really prepared
to preach it. Yeah. And so I amjust gonna sit and receive it,
and sit under some teaching fora little while, which is good.
I feel like I did a littlemarathon through prayer, and now
I'm ready to sit and receivesome Sabbath preaching.
Luke (39:14):
I'm excited about it, because it is definitely it's
something that was just I don'tknow. It's like a newer it feels
new and fresh, because it's beenso not talked about.
Cameron (39:26):
Mhmm.
Luke (39:27):
It's not that it's actually all that new.
Cameron (39:29):
Right. Right. Well, we thank you for listening. I hope
that it moved along a littlefaster this time, and I, it
didn't sound like it had marblesin my mouth, or that, you know,
I don't know what, that I washalf asleep. I'm so sorry for
all that.
We're gonna do better in thefuture. Why don't you give us
some stinking feedback outthere, so we know, hey, is
(39:51):
Cameron half asleep, or what?Because he's always drinking an
energy drink, but he's talkingreally slow. Man, holy cow. I
wish I would've known 81episodes ago.
Anyway, have a great day. Thanksfor listening. We'll catch you
on the next one.
Welcome to the Uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. And
I'm pastor Cameron. And this isthe Uncut podcast where we have
honest, uncut conversationsabout faith, life, and ministry.
We do.
We're gonna begin to have themquickly, more quickly than we
have in the past.
Cameron (00:25):
As I was telling Luke today, I recommended this
podcast to a friend, and so whenI sent him the link, I just
clicked on it, be like, oh, youknow, I don't because I don't
often go back and listen to ourown podcasts because Yeah. We
were here.
Luke (00:41):
Right.
Cameron (00:41):
I was here in the room. I don't I don't need to know the
content.
Luke (00:44):
We said the things.
Cameron (00:45):
We said the things. Right? So I don't often go back
and listen to them, but I justhappened to, because it was like
up on my phone. And as I waslistening to it, I was like,
dear heavens, Cameron Linehart,you are the slowest talker in
the history of talkers. Like, Iwas literally boring myself with
(01:05):
my own podcast.
And so, I just need to say toall of our listeners or viewers
out there, I am sorry. Like, ifthere is any way that we can go
back into all of our podcastsand re edit them, we will speed
up my speech by two times andleave Luke's the same as it is.
And then maybe it will bemarginally listenable. But, oh
(01:31):
my goodness. I'm gonna stoptrying to be so because what I
was saying before we startedYeah.
Is that I'm not intentionallyspeaking slowly, at least in my
head, but what I'm trying to dois just be thoughtful. And not
just not just verbal diarrheaout everywhere.
Luke (01:52):
Yeah. Well, that's that's what I always assumed. Well,
because now I feel somewhatembarrassed too, because you
asked me before we turned themics on, Luke, do I always just
talk that slow? And I was kindalike, I mean, like, on the
podcast, you do. Like, I justthought you'd listened back to
the couple Here we are,
Cameron (02:07):
81 episodes in, and I'm just learning this. Like,
Luke (02:12):
so Need to work on my feedback.
Cameron (02:14):
Yeah. If we like, I'm sorry people. I am sorry. Okay?
I will speak more quickly.
As in as much as I'm able to.Yeah. Or if not, just put it on
two x and listen to it that way.
Luke (02:28):
Yeah. You'll you'll oscillate between my speech
pattern and Cameron's speech.
Cameron (02:33):
Oh my goodness. It's so embarrassing. Anyway, here we
are.
Luke (02:38):
Here we are.
Cameron (02:39):
Back in the studio, ready to pick up a new series. I
I I guess, we have beenpreaching in prayer the last
it's been I think we did fiveFive sermons on prayer We did.
Prayer, and one on fasting,which I just considered to be
(02:59):
the same as prayer. And now, weare going into a series on
Sabbath, which is the other halfof our yearly focus for the
year, spiritual focus for theyear here at Conduit. And if you
haven't been around Conduit tohear it, or know what we've been
(03:22):
talking about in prayer, we'vekind of communicated prayer as
an invitation to intimacy withGod.
As we seek God's face, prayer isa way that we enter into deeper
intimacy with Him. Yep. And now,as we go into Sabbath, Sabbath
is a way that we don't that wecreate space
Luke (03:41):
Mhmm.
Cameron (03:42):
To seek the Lord, to seek His face. Yes. And
actually, I think kind of one ofthe things that I wanna talk
about this morning, you've beendoing most of the preparation
for the Sabbath series, becauseyou're preaching most of it.
Yeah. But one of the things thatI wanted to talk about this
morning was we don't createspace for Sabbath.
God has given us the space.Mhmm. It's our it's our choice
(04:04):
or our responsibility to stepinto it. Yeah. So and so I don't
know if you have, since, like Isaid, since you've been doing
most of the preparation for theseries, if you have a specific
direction where you'd like tostart this episode, or if you
want to jump right into thisscripture that I have open, or
(04:26):
what do you want to do?
Luke (04:28):
Well, I mean, I think just where you kind of started there
is, like, maybe we just startwith that basic concept of
Sabbath is creating because,like, our full theme, right, is
seeking God through prayer andSabbath. Seeking God's face.
Seeking God's face throughprayer and Sabbath. And so we
talked a lot about seeking God'sface. We talked about prayer,
(04:49):
and Sabbath is, like, in a lotof people's minds, I just think
people don't even know how toconceptually think about
Sabbath.
Cameron (04:59):
Not in a modern way. No. It's an old relic of
religious life that they're notexactly sure what to do with in
modern society.
Luke (05:08):
Right. And we've kind of let it go to the side. We're
just like, that's old relic. Wedon't have to do it anymore. And
so then we're left with notSabbath, which is like our daily
seven days a week, seven elevengrind, you know?
And that's leading to a placewhere I think we're we've we've
(05:33):
run out of space for God, or forconnecting with him, and also
just other important things andgifts that God gives us, like
our family, like our values, andthings like that, I think as
well. So, yeah, I don't know.Let's let's start maybe with the
passage that you've got in frontit, that you've got over.
Cameron (05:55):
Okay. So it's in Mark chapter two, and this is one of
my favorite passages on Sabbathin the New Testament. So I'm in
Mark two verses 23 through 28,one Sabbath, Jesus was going
through the grain fields, andhis disciples walked along. They
(06:16):
began to pick some heads ofgrain, and the Pharisees said to
him, look. Why are you doingwhat is unlawful on the Sabbath?
He answered, have you never readwhat David did when he and his
companions were hungry and inneed? In the days of Abiathar
the high priest, he entered thehouse of God and ate the
(06:36):
consecrated bread, which islawful only for priests to eat,
and he also gave some to hiscompanions. Then he said to
them, the Sabbath was made forman, not man for Sabbath. So the
son of man is Lord even of theSabbath. Mhmm.
So this is one of the moreinstructive passages to me in my
(07:00):
kind of understanding ortheology around Sabbath Yeah. Is
that instead of it beingsomething that becomes a instead
of it being something thatbecomes a weight Yeah. That we
must bear Mhmm. It becomes afreedom and a gift that we get
(07:25):
to receive Yep. And walk in.
Yeah. And I think that that'sessentially how Jesus summarized
what he said here, the Sabbathwas made for man, not man for
Sabbath, but that's what he wascommunicating really in his back
(07:46):
and forth with the Pharisees inthe story as well.
Luke (07:48):
Yeah. Well, this is the thing, is I will talk about this
passage quite a bit once I getto it in the sermon series on
Sabbath, because I think asinstructive and helpful and life
giving as this passage is, it isalso, I think, the root of one
of the reasons that we'veneglected Sabbath. Think we've
(08:10):
misunderstood this passage. Sowhen we read this, right, we're
like, maybe we have in our mindsa picture of Sabbath that is
like, oh, Sabbath means it'sthis old way of doing Sunday,
where you go to church twice,you don't really do anything
(08:32):
fun, you sit in some old woodenpews, you just kind of listen to
the preacher preach. It's justkind of a drudgery.
It's this day in which you'renot allowed to do any of the
things that you want to do orcan do. A lot of things are
closed. It's just kind of thisday that just kind of like,
blah. Right? If you have thiskind of like very legalistic
(08:52):
sense of what Sabbath is, weread this, and then we're like,
oh, what did Jesus say?
He said that, okay, Sabbath ismade for man, not man for the
Sabbath. He's the Lord of theSabbath. Oh, so Jesus is telling
the Pharisees who were observingthe law and like making, you
(09:15):
know, Sabbath this big deal,he's like, oh, look. Jesus is
saying you don't have to payattention to any of the rules
when it comes to Sabbath. Right.
So I should be able to do what Iwant on Sabbath on Sunday. Mhmm.
So it's it's a thing I actuallydon't have to kind of keep or
worry about. And so, like, withthat freedom, we just say, oh,
(09:36):
well, you know, it if I want towork on Sundays, that's fine, or
I want to work on Sabbath orwhatever. It's okay if I don't
practice Sabbath, because Jesusis the Lord of the Sabbath.
He did away with it here in thispassage, because he said, look,
oh, all the rules you're makingabout this, these are silly. You
know, man was created forSabbath, not Sabbath for man.
(09:58):
That just means there are norules when it comes to this, so
I'm free. And then we don'tpractice Sabbath at all. We just
kind of go about doing our life,and you know, we take we we go
to church on Sunday, and while Iwent to church, that means I've
practiced Sabbath, you know, asmuch as I maybe need to, or
something like that.
(10:18):
And so I think that that's thepopular understanding of this
passage, and I think the reasonultimately why practice of
Sabbath has fallen apart. Sopreach for us a little
Cameron (10:31):
bit the sermon that you're gonna preach on this
about what we how do weinternalize or kind of step into
what Jesus was saying when hesaid, I am the Lord of the
Sabbath. The son of man is theLord of the Sabbath.
Luke (10:49):
Oh. So the son of man is the Lord even of the Sabbath.
That is
Cameron (10:58):
I would say it maybe vis a vis how it has become
understood, meaning like, oh,since Jesus is Lord of the
Sabbath, I don't really have topractice it, because I just
follow Jesus, or whatever.
Luke (11:12):
Yeah, so that's what I think yeah, so exactly how you
said it. I think we read that,and we see the son of man is the
Lord of the even the Sabbath.That means Jesus has, like, got
control over it. He's trumpingit. He's trumping it, and so
therefore, I follow Jesus, so Idon't have to follow the I don't
have
Cameron (11:31):
to practice
Luke (11:31):
Sabbath. That is not what Jesus is saying here. There's
other passages where Jesus saysfamously, I did not come to
abolish the law. Right? I cameto fulfill Right?
And that's not just a fancy wayof saying, I've also abolished
it. It's a way
Cameron (11:48):
of like, it is more complete in me than elsewhere.
Jesus becomes the Jesus becomeslike the lens Mhmm. That we see
the law in, and we practice thelaw in. Exactly.
Luke (12:02):
And so when he says, I am the Lord even of the Sabbath,
he's saying that I am thecomplete, like, I am fulfilling
the Sabbath. Not in a way thatit's fulfilled and it's done
with, but it is in a morecomplete sense in me. And so
when he's talking about Lord ofthe Sabbath, that's a huge not
(12:26):
only is the Son of Man adivinity claim, like, it's a
claim of being the messiahship,but to say that he's the lord of
the Sabbath. Who started theSabbath? Mhmm.
God on the seventh day ofcreation. Mhmm. When he said he
would rest it, he stopped. Mhmm.That word stop, Sabbath means to
stop.
(12:48):
And it's like most literal andwooden interpretation of it. It
means to just stop, to rest. Andthat's the same thing that the
Lord did on the seventh day. Hestopped. And and all throughout
the Old Testament, Sabbath isbrought up over and over and
over again.
It's one it's one of the 10commandments. I think we forget
(13:09):
that sometimes, that we're like,well, isn't that just part of
like the the Levitical code andstuff? It's all the extra stuff
that got added on or somethinglike Right. But no, it was one
of the 10 commandments thatMoses brought. The Sabbath day
and keep it holy.
Right? It it was that importantthat it may was made onto the 10
(13:30):
commandments. And we think thatthis passage means, oh, well,
this is one of the 10commandments we can ignore.
Whereas, like, we generallydon't don't ignore the rest of
the 10. And so Jesus here, whenhe says he's the lord of the
Sabbath, he's saying, like, I'mbringing about a more true,
(13:51):
fulfilled full understanding ofwhat Sabbath is.
Mhmm. Not that Sabbath goesaway, but that Sabbath is going
to be practiced and understoodin a more complete sense if you
follow me. Right.
Cameron (14:05):
Right. I also see it as a yeah. Exactly. And I guess
it's not I'm just saying maybewhat I would say here would be
saying the same thing, maybejust a little bit more snarkly,
is that Jesus' response to thepharisees is like, you don't get
(14:26):
to define the Sabbath. Itdoesn't belong to you.
Well, I mean, it does in a sensethat it's the gift. Yes. But it
didn't originate with you. Itoriginated with the father, of
which he he and I are one,essentially. And so Jesus is
like, if anyone gets to definewhat what is allowed to be done
on the Sabbath, it's me, notyou.
Luke (14:47):
Yeah. Well, they had gotten to this place, like the
context here, right, is thePharisees and the practitioners
of the law, they had gotten tothis place where they were like,
we don't want to dishonor theSabbath. We want to keep it
holy. And so we better make surethat we stay very, very far away
(15:08):
from
Cameron (15:09):
Dishonoring it.
Luke (15:10):
Dishonoring it. Yeah. And so they came up with all these
other rules of things thatthey're like, okay, well, we
can't do that on the Sabbathbecause that could be
misconstrued as work. Mhmm. Oneof the other interactions that
Jesus has with the Phariseesaround Sabbath is Jesus heals a
man.
Mhmm. Heals a couple people onSabbath.
Cameron (15:29):
Quite a few.
Luke (15:30):
Quite a few. Mhmm. And the Pharisees always get really mad.
Right. And Jesus is trying topoint out to them, trying to
show them, he's like, you guyshave come up with so many rules
about not doing things onSabbath that you're up set that
I'm doing a really, really goodthing.
Cameron (15:49):
A righteous thing.
Luke (15:49):
A righteous thing on the Sabbath.
Cameron (15:51):
Was trying to find that. Do you
Luke (15:52):
know the reference for that? I don't off the top of my
head. I think it is it in Luke,where there's the beautiful it's
the the pool named Beautiful or
Cameron (16:04):
Gates Beautiful or whatever. Yeah.
Luke (16:08):
But there's so there's that. We were even we were just
listening last night in ourpracticing the way class on
prayer, which is by John MarkComer. It's a small group series
that we've been going through asa church, and he shared that
(16:28):
praying intercessory prayer,praying for other people was one
of the things that Orthodox Jewsdon't do because it's considered
work, you know, on the Sabbath.And so you would stay you
wouldn't even pray for otherpeople, because that would be
considered doing a work on theSabbath. Mhmm.
(16:48):
And that's just that's whatthat's the context that Jesus is
coming into. Did you find thatpassage?
Cameron (16:54):
There I found one of them was He heals the crippled
woman on Sabbath. This is Luke13. On Sabbath, Jesus was
teaching in one of thesynagogues, and a woman there
who had been crippled by aspirit for eighteen years, she
was bent over and could notstraighten up at all. We should
talk more about that, crippledby a spirit. I have more
questions about that kind ofstuff too.
(17:16):
Yeah. Because I'm just like,okay, pause Sabbath
conversation. I've been doing mydevotions in the Old Testament,
and reading lately in first andsecond Samuel.
Luke (17:27):
Okay. Yeah.
Cameron (17:29):
And the whole There's a lot there. The whole, like, and
the Lord sent an evil spirit totorment Saul.
Luke (17:39):
Mhmm.
Cameron (17:42):
Come again?
Luke (17:43):
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Cameron (17:46):
Like, what? Mhmm. Anyway. Okay. Press play on the
Sabbath conversation again, butI wanna talk about spirits used
in that way at some point.
Yeah. So there was a woman whowas crippled by a spirit for
(18:06):
eighteen years. She was bentover and could not straighten up
at all. When Jesus saw her, hecalled her forward and said to
her, woman, you are set freefrom your infirmity. Then he put
his hands on her, andimmediately she straightened up
and praised God.
Indignant because Jesus hadhealed on the Sabbath, the
synagogue ruler said to thepeople, there are six days for
work, so come and be healed onthose days, not on the Sabbath.
(18:31):
The Lord answered him, youhypocrites, doesn't each of you
on the Sabbath untie his ox ordonkey from the stall and lead
it out to give it water? Thenshould then should not this
woman, a daughter of Abraham,whom Satan has kept bound for
eighteen long years, Jesusconnects the spirit with Satan,
be set free on the Sabbath dayfrom what has bound her? When he
(18:53):
said this, all of his opponentswere humiliated, but the people
were delighted with thewonderful things that he was
doing. So Right.
Yeah. Certainly, there was asense that there was a sense
that in Jesus for that therewas, like you said, there was a
(19:16):
highly legalistic attitude toit, which was similar to the way
that the Pharisees kind ofoperated in relation to all of
the law.
Luke (19:26):
All of it. Tithing, tithing out of their spies,
know, all that kind of stuff.
Cameron (19:30):
Is that in accordance to the letter of the law,
perfect in all ways
Luke (19:36):
Mhmm.
Cameron (19:36):
But missing the spirit of the laws. And so Jesus came
to, in a sense now he didn'tcome to do this, but in his
ministry and in his life, he didintegrate, or he allowed the
spirit of the law to maybedefine or qualify the letter of
(20:03):
the law. And so that's kind ofhow I look at Jesus in the
gospels as it pertains toSabbath, is that he's always
bringing clarity to themisappropriation of religiosity
(20:25):
of the Pharisees. Yeah. You youhave heard that it was said, but
I say Right.
Throughout the whole Sermon onthe Mount, and in instances of
the Sabbath, was like, hey,yeah, guys, listen. I I get it,
you know, maybe to the letter,but don't you, like, untie your
(20:45):
ox or donkey and take it todrink. And so why wouldn't we do
something Compassionate.Compassionate of the Lord,
breaking in the king breakinginto the kingdom, and do that on
the Sabbath. Like, it's notrighteous things are good on the
(21:07):
Sabbath
Luke (21:08):
Right.
Cameron (21:08):
Whether they're considered work by the letter of
the law or not.
Luke (21:12):
Yes. So Jesus is I think that's the reason why, like, if
we were still in the context ofJesus, where we were like,
having really legalistic, likewe were in a church culture, Our
church type of churches that,you know, nondenominational
evangelical churches, don'ttypically have a legalistic
(21:36):
approach to Sabbath. In in anegative sense. In a negative
sense. Right?
We're not we're not
Cameron (21:43):
fairseaical about it.
Luke (21:44):
We're not fairs fairseaical about We're not in
this space of, like, being like,oh, well, you can't do that,
like, in like in in in anythinglike that. And so our context is
rather the opposite. Correct.We've gotten to this place where
we've ignored the Sabbath to agreat detriment of ourselves,
(22:04):
and so we hear Jesus' wordshere, and we just assume, oh,
well, he's still just talking tous in our same context, Where
the context has changed, andJesus would probably have
something very different to say.Actually, he would have
something probably similar tosay, I'm gonna have to pull up
my notes here, Because there'ssomething that's really, I
(22:27):
think, telling about what theSabbath is, and what it's meant
to mean that comes out in theOld Testament.
I need to look at my list ofpassages here. Alright. If we go
to can you pull up Lamentationstwo six? Oh, deep cut. Yeah.
(22:52):
Deep cut.
Cameron (22:54):
You know, I'll say this about something that you just
said is that is that it Sabbathis like it's like the only
commandment that we, in theevangelical church, that not
(23:19):
only do we not what am I doing?I'm going the wrong way. Not
only do we not how did you putit? Like, we're not pharisaical
in our practice of Sabbath, butyou said we've it.
Luke (23:37):
We've ignored it.
Cameron (23:38):
Yeah. In evangelicalism, we have ignored
it, and I think it actually goesbeyond that. And we haven't just
ignored it. Mhmm. We've mockedit.
Oh, yeah. You know, like, andso, it hasn't just become this
thing where we've like forgottenthat it exists. It's become this
(23:58):
thing where we have where wehave, when you bring up Sabbath,
it gets snickered at. Mhmm. Itgets like Why
Luke (24:15):
would you do that?
Cameron (24:15):
Why would you do that? Where, like, or I couldn't
possibly find the time, or like,oh, yeah. I I mean, Sabbath is
great for people who don't havekids and full time jobs, but for
Oh, yeah. But for the rest ofus, people Yeah. Like, we just
don't have time.
No. We don't have time toSabbath. Mhmm. You a pastor here
(24:41):
in front of you struggling tofind Lamentations right Well,
Luke (24:44):
while you're trying to find Lamentations, I looked up
Hosea two. So Hosea is he'sHosea two is particularly harsh
passage of judgment. So he'sdescribing Israel, and he's he's
(25:09):
in verse seven, he says, she,talking about Israel, shall
pursue her lovers, but notovertake them. And she shall
seek them, and she shall notfind. Then she shall say, I will
go and return to my firsthusband, for it is better for me
it was better for me then thannow.
And she did not know that it wasI who gave her the grain, the
(25:30):
wine, and the oil, who lavishedher silver and gold, which they
used for bale. Therefore, I willtake back my grain in its time
and my wine in its season, and Iwill take the wool and my flax,
which were to cover hernakedness. So God right now in
this passage is saying, Israelhas pursued other gods, has
(25:50):
chased after other gods than me,has thought that she would get
kind of comparing her to anunfaithful wife in this passage,
and he's saying, I'm going tobring about judgment. I'm gonna
actually take away all theblessings, kind of like, he's
kind of saying, like, she's beenan unfaithful wife, but I've
(26:12):
allowed her to keep the creditcard. I'm taking the credit card
away.
Don't don't stretch my analogyhere too harshly. But then he
says, verse 10, he says, now Iwill uncover her lewdness in the
sight of her lovers, and no oneshall rescue her out of my hand.
So it's a very violent passagehere where he's saying, like,
she's going to be disgraced. Andthen verse 11 is the pass is the
(26:36):
verse I really wanted to get to,and it says, and I will put an
end to all her mirth, all herfeasts, her new her new moons,
and her Sabbaths, and all herappointed feasts. Part of God's
punishment to Israel is theremoval of Sabbaths.
Mhmm. I'm gonna take away alltheir holidays, all her
(26:58):
celebrations, all of herSabbaths. Like, it was a
punishment to have Sabbathremoved. Did you find that
Lamentations passage?
Cameron (27:11):
I did end up finding Lamentations in the Bible. Yes.
Luke (27:14):
You did? Okay.
Cameron (27:14):
It's right after Jeremiah. It is indeed. But for
whatever reason, it's like mypages pages were sticking
together, and I was trying totalk at the same time. So what
was the actual reference? Twosix.
Two six. He has laid waste hisdwelling like a garden. He has
destroyed his place of meeting.The Lord has made Zion forget
(27:36):
her appointed feasts andSabbaths. In his fierce anger,
he has spurned both king andpriest.
Luke (27:44):
Yeah. Yeah. So these are two judgment passages on Israel
before they go into exile,because they've been pursuing
false gods. And part of we'relike, oh, exile is the
punishment.
Cameron (27:58):
It's part of the But
Luke (28:00):
also part of the punishment, as articulated in
two of these passages, is theremoval of Sabbath.
Cameron (28:07):
Yeah. It'd be like if you sent your kid to your room
as a punishment, and then tooktheir iPad
Luke (28:13):
Right. As well. Yes. Exactly.
Cameron (28:16):
So it's like, you're still going to your room as a
punishment, and on top of it,I'm taking the thing.
Luke (28:20):
Yeah. And the irony is, is that God hasn't taken Sabbath
from us, but we've just ignoredit. Yeah. We've put ourselves,
by ignoring Sabbath, we have putourselves in a position of
experiencing punishment. We arepunishing our own selves by
(28:41):
ignoring the gift of Sabbath.
Cameron (28:43):
Yeah. That's a good word. That's gonna preach.
Luke (28:46):
Yeah. That's gonna preach hard.
Cameron (28:49):
You better come hard with that.
Luke (28:51):
It's like that's but that's what it is. It's a gift
that we have just, for somereason, said no to Mhmm. In
order to say yes to busyness,hurried, schedules that are
filled, like Even good thingsthat come from the world.
Cameron (29:09):
Yeah. We've chosen good things
Luke (29:13):
Mhmm.
Cameron (29:13):
That come from the world that are not the good
thing that comes from the Lord.Yep. Yeah. What maybe as a
tangential question, butsomewhat similar. This is a
really this is not a verycomplicated or nuanced question
(29:33):
at all, so don't worry.
Okay. What was the purpose ofthe law?
Luke (29:42):
I mean, there's that passage where Paul talks about
the purpose of the What did Paulsay the purpose of law? Well, it
was to train righteousness.
Cameron (29:48):
Train us okay. So to be a mirror in which we can see our
own sin.
Luke (29:53):
Yeah. Right. It it it likes at least on this side of
it. Right? Yeah.
That's what the purpose of thelaw becomes, is it becomes an
illustration. It it shows us ourown failings and inability to
keep the law and the necessityfor Christ. And do we
Cameron (30:10):
think that that was always and always the only
purpose? Like, I mean, even justthinking about like Levitical
law. Yeah. And like theextraordinary restrictions put
on the people for purity,cleanliness, life, diet I mean,
Luke (30:29):
I don't think so. I I don't like, I think that's
always maybe been a portion ofit, right, is a reminder that we
are unclean. Mhmm. That in ourstandard way of being, we're not
worthy to be with God. But thenalso, parts of the law,
(30:53):
including the Sabbath, weredemarkers to remind the
Israelite people that they weregods.
Right? So circumcision, Sabbath,there's a couple others that
were like this is like a not asense of burden, but a sense of
pride, because it distinguishesme from the other nations. Mhmm.
(31:17):
To say like, well, I live thisway because I'm God's. Right.
And that and so that wasn't aburden. That was a that was a
gift. God's given me a differentway to live, and it means that
I'm His. So I don't think thatour think we still this is
(31:39):
really getting deep in the weedshere but I still think we very
much struggle with the overinterpretation of pharisaical
and Old Testament law from aMedieval context when the
reformers came. Talking aboutdeep cut.
Yeah. So when Martin Luther andCalvin and all of them were
(32:01):
doing all of their reforming,they were interpreting a lot of
Paul's and Jesus' teachingsagainst some of the pharisaical
behavior of the Catholic church.And so still to this day Like
overreacting. Overreacting,right? And so to this day, when
(32:22):
we read law, we can sometimesinsert Catholicism, or something
like that.
And we look at the OldTestament, and we see it as
being essentially this Marcionheresy. So Marcion was this
(32:42):
early heretic in the earlychurch who believed that there
was the mean God of the OldTestament, and Jesus was the new
God, and he was the nice God.And if you just kind of get this
idea that God suddenly changedhis face with Jesus. He suddenly
became this nice God, and thatthere's this dichotomy between
(33:07):
that, that was an early heresy.That's still repeated all over
the place.
It's a heresy that's continuedto live. It's just called other
things now. I just don't believethat that's a true
representation. I think when weread the Old Testament, we see
that God is loving, He's kind,He's patient, He's forbearing,
(33:28):
that He's the law was not meantto be this really mean, ugly,
nasty thing that was a burdenupon the people. Mhmm.
That it was generally seen andperceived as a gift. Mhmm. That
it wasn't just this, like
Cameron (33:42):
Mhmm.
Luke (33:43):
Wasn't being this like taskmaster. Right. It's very
just a like Yeah. A good thing.Mhmm.
Cameron (33:52):
Yeah. I've always seen it, and in the same in the same
way as, like, on the on thisside of the law, yeah, it is a
thing that has it's been amirror that has revealed our sin
Mhmm. And our need for a savior.Yeah. Cannot measure up to the
standard of God's holiness onour own.
(34:14):
We need the righteousness ofJesus to do that for us. Excuse
me. But similar to what you saidthere, you didn't use these
words, but you said the samething, is that the law was for
the people. It was an anchor ofconsecration. Yeah.
(34:35):
It is what anchored them asseparate from the pagan nations
around them. And there is stilla not even a significant, that
still is true for the people ofGod now.
Luke (34:55):
Mhmm.
Cameron (34:55):
Even the engrafted branches as Gentile believers
into the people of God. Thereare aspects about our life, and
our practice, and our beliefsthat are anchors for
consecration in a world of paganbelief. And not just pagan
belief, like pagan belief in OldTestament worship of false gods
(35:18):
or whatever, but pagan beliefaround like love, who who is
worthy, who who should we loveand not love. The pagan world,
we we love those who love us.Mhmm.
We love our friends. Yeah. Youknow? We don't love those. We
don't love our enemies, and wecertainly don't pray for them,
or forgiveness, or generosity,or mercy, or compassion, or
(35:43):
aspects of our not aspects ofour sexual morality and sexual
Like, the law of God, the wordof God, both in the law and in
the New Testament Mhmm.
Is becomes an anchor forconsecration that defines us as
separate Mhmm. Set apart forspecial purpose by use of God
(36:04):
for the building of his kingdom.And so, it is not meant as a
yoke of punishment or weight.It's a thing that sets us apart,
and makes us different from theworld around around us, and
defines us as I'm set apart forhim. Right.
We're set apart for him.
Luke (36:23):
Yeah. We're gonna start sounding like fundamentalists in
a second.
Cameron (36:26):
Let's I'll start pounding this pulpit.
Luke (36:30):
Well, that's I think that's the thing is that we've
veered so much into this realmof wanting to not seem like
we're different. Oh, look, I'mjust exactly like you, except I
go to church on Sundays. Yeah.And what we've done is we've
left aside all the things thatGod has given us to be distinct
(36:53):
because they're unpopular, andwe will be canceled for them or
something like that. You know?
Not all I don't think everybodylives in fear of being canceled,
but I think that, like, I Ithink it does when it comes to
people's view of sexuality.
Cameron (37:07):
Mhmm. Right? You you are really not allowed to have a
public a different view, adifferent perspective of human
sexuality in the public realmYeah. Than the prevailing
opinions of Right. The world.
Yeah. You're not allowed to.
Luke (37:27):
Even regardless the fact that we're in the middle of,
like, this will time stamp us alittle bit, but, like, even
though we're in the middle of aworld where for at least four
years, there seems to be a tophead leaning towards a more
conservative view of sexuality,but I don't know that that's out
of a Christ whatever. But likeYeah. Right. You know, but
(37:50):
still, the prevailing culturehas been, like, permissive
towards sexuality, and I thinkit will continue that way,
regardless of whatever the blipof social Mhmm. Upheaval and
turmoil we're in the middle of.
Cameron (38:04):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. So, I said all that. I asked the
question about the, like, thethe laws and anchor of
consecration
Luke (38:14):
Mhmm.
Cameron (38:15):
To say Sabbath is just that thing as well. Yes. That
when the rest of the world isrunning like a chicken with its
head cut off, a % of the time,Sabbath is the thing that marks
us out as different. Exactly.
Luke (38:30):
It's it's meant to make us look a little weird.
Cameron (38:33):
Mhmm. Yeah. I I said at the beginning of the year, like,
am prepared I'm prepare for meto make it weird this year. I'm
gonna make it weird this year.I'm going all in.
Yeah. Well, I am excited forthis series. Honestly, part of
(38:54):
the reason I'm excited is that Ifeel like you're really prepared
to preach it. Yeah. And so I amjust gonna sit and receive it,
and sit under some teaching fora little while, which is good.
I feel like I did a littlemarathon through prayer, and now
I'm ready to sit and receivesome Sabbath preaching.
Luke (39:14):
I'm excited about it, because it is definitely it's
something that was just I don'tknow. It's like a newer it feels
new and fresh, because it's beenso not talked about.
Cameron (39:26):
Mhmm.
Luke (39:27):
It's not that it's actually all that new.
Cameron (39:29):
Right. Right. Well, we thank you for listening. I hope
that it moved along a littlefaster this time, and I, it
didn't sound like it had marblesin my mouth, or that, you know,
I don't know what, that I washalf asleep. I'm so sorry for
all that.
We're gonna do better in thefuture. Why don't you give us
some stinking feedback outthere, so we know, hey, is
(39:51):
Cameron half asleep, or what?Because he's always drinking an
energy drink, but he's talkingreally slow. Man, holy cow. I
wish I would've known 81episodes ago.
Anyway, have a great day. Thanksfor listening. We'll catch you
on the next one.
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