October 6, 2025 • 52 mins
Ever wanted to move through the woods with real confidence—no glowing screen, no second-guessing, just clear decisions and steady steps? That’s the energy fueling this week’s journey under the canopy, where we blend a love of seasonal living with the practical art of orienteering and a thoughtful look at chaga’s place in everyday wellness.
We kick things off in early-fall Ontario: an off-grid chaga camp to prep, a simple generator humming at night, and a grocery plan for a rotating crew of helpers. The home apothecary is buzzing—apples, mints, sage, lemon balm, sumac, mullein, burdock, and milk thistle are all in play as we build a winter toolkit from the land. Then we welcome Nevin French, president of Orienteering Ontario, who unpacks the sport’s core: reading hyper-detailed maps, using a thumb compass as a tool (not a crutch), and choosing routes that fit your strengths. We talk strategy, from “take seconds to save minutes” to relocating with big, reliable features like hills, creeks, and shorelines.
From local beginner courses to World Championships, orienteering thrives on community. You’ll hear how clubs across Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Collingwood, Parry Sound, and Kingston make navigation accessible, with loaner compasses, easy-to-learn maps, and events for families, hikers, and athletes alike. We touch on safety—whistles, tick awareness, smart footwear—and how GPS fits as a post-race learning tool, not as a navigator. There’s even a tour of unique experiences, like racing across the Bay of Fundy’s ocean floor at low tide and Hamilton’s Raid the Hammer along the Niagara Escarpment.
Threaded through the episode are grounded stories about chaga: field-tested routines, a father’s blood-pressure shift with daily tea, and an MS journey marked by improved clarity and gait. While everyone’s path is personal, the theme holds: nature teaches, if we pay attention. Ready to build your outdoor confidence and find your line through the woods? Press play, subscribe for new journeys each week, and share your best “got unlost” story with us in a review—your tips might guide the next listener into the forest with a steadier step.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Hi everybody, I'm Angelo Viola.
And I'm Pete Bowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
SPEAKER_11 (00:10):
That's right.
Every Thursday, Ann and I willbe right here in your ears,
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Hmm.
Now what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
SPEAKER_11 (00:20):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors.
From athletes.
SPEAKER_11 (00:34):
All the other guys would go golfing.
Me and Garchom Turk, and all theRussians would go fishing.
SPEAKER_10 (00:40):
The scientists.
And now that we're reforestingaway things, it's the perfect
transmission environment to linewith these.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
Chefs, if any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
for you will taste it.
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
And whoever else will pick up the phone.
Wherever you are, OutdoorJournal Radio seeks to answer
the questions and tell thestories of all those who enjoy
being outside.
SPEAKER_11 (01:02):
Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_09 (01:22):
But they are still available to those who know
where to listen.
I'm Jerry Olach, and I washonored to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
(01:44):
In 2015, I was introduced to thebirch-hungry fungus known as
Chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest, use testimonials, and
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession.
And I now spend my lifededicated to improving the lives
(02:06):
of others through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Underthe Canopy podcast, I'm going to
take you along with me to seethe places, meet the people that
(02:29):
will help you find your outdoorpassion and help you live a life
close to nature and under thecanopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode, and hopefully we
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
(02:50):
Okay, as always, we want tothank all our listeners here in
uh Rosk, right across Canada,Ontario, all through the States,
around the world, Switzerland,Ghana, Ghana, Trinidad, Tobago,
Friends and Bermuda, the Bahamasas well.
You know, it's um it's that timeof year when the colors start
changing, but I think we're alittle bit ahead.
Normally by Thanksgiving weekendin Ontario, where we go up in
(03:14):
central Ontario, which is kindof halfway between Bancroft and
Halliburton, for those lookingon a map, kind of about two and
a half hours north north east ofToronto.
It's Thanksgiving weekend whenwe see peak colors, but I'm
telling you, I would say that Iwas out through the bush
yesterday, and the colors werecertainly uh prevalent
(03:35):
everywhere and and in highchange mode, let's say.
I think the the dry fall and thedryness that we've had uh is is
having them change a little bitearly.
But I want to do a shout out toCheryl and Halliburton, a
faithful listener, who talked tome Tuesday last and brought up
some questions and reallyenjoyed the last uh podcast
where she talked uh where Italked about the Chaga and she
(03:58):
brought up a lot of detailsabout it.
But it's that time of the yearas well.
Not only the color is changing,but I'm getting ready to head up
uh for my Chaga camp where I'lldo my picking.
And normally I get up inSeptember, and what we do is uh
I do an assessment of the campis uh uh uh the propane in the
tank.
So we got uh a hundred pounderand plus I have a thirty-pound
(04:18):
backup.
Not only that, but I also checkto make sure oh the the the the
stove uh pipe is is good for thefor the sauna, because that's uh
we use the sauna as a uh cleanuparea for ourselves instead of a
shower or anything.
We're off grid, completelyoff-grid in this location.
I have a generator that uh justa small like a thousand watt one
(04:38):
that we use to run lights andsome of the some basic things so
at nightwork works out good forus.
And uh, you know, and then Iassess the camp, okay, do I need
paper towels, do I need paperplates, and all the rest of it.
But I've just been so busy thisyear that I haven't had a chance
to.
So I'm gonna have to kind ofwing it and wait till I get up
to camp up north to have a seeuh what I need and then take it
(05:02):
from there.
But uh I started doing thegrocery buying, which I do the
meal plan, the grocery buyingand everything, and I think
we've got on average about fiveor six in camp on an ongoing
basis.
So some come, some go, with alot of helpers from a lot of
people, and we really enjoy andappreciate all the support that
we get from everybody.
Not only that, but my own livingapothecary is that uh time of
(05:25):
year where we're doing ourharvesting.
And let me see, you know, lavageI've harvested about a month
ago.
And lavage is a great, uh it'skind of a celery, uh peppery
celery kind of substitute thatgoes in great in soups and stews
and things like that.
But also our apples are ripe andstarting to fall or have been
(05:47):
falling, so we've beenharvesting them.
My mints, both my uh spearmintand peppermint and sage and
lemon balm are all gettingready.
And as we have had Bev Delonardoon the uh podcast, putting those
and taking those seeds up sowe'll do some new plants and
some new areas that will seedwith those kind of seeds to see
(06:08):
if we can get them coming up indifferent areas as well.
But not only that, and a lot ofthe herbalists will tell you
that things like sumac.
Now, sumac is is about primeright now and great tasting,
makes a great tea, but otherthings like mullen, burdock,
milk, thistle, etc.
etc.
Time to harvest a lot of thatstuff so you can move forward
(06:31):
with your own apothecary to tohelp us through all the winter
stuff.
And today we have uh a specialguest coming on, and it uh we're
gonna talk about being out inthe bush or under under the
canopy as always.
And I know when I was back inCubs and Scouts and Venturers,
(06:52):
we spent a lot of time doingthis with my scoutmaster, Ken
Ridge, who was uh one of thebest around, great guy, great
building block, as my mentionedin the past in my life.
But I have the president ofOrienteering Ontario, Nevin
French from Toronto on to talkabout the sports.
Welcome to the podcast, Nevin.
SPEAKER_07 (07:10):
Thank you so much.
I'm really appreciate uh youhaving on having me on this and
uh really love uh the fact thatyou promote uh being out
outdoors in the in the woods andin the wild, and that's
something I love doing and andour sport really encourages
people to get out into the woodsas much.
SPEAKER_09 (07:26):
Well, that's great.
Well, uh Nevin, tell us a bitabout yourself.
Like, where are you recordingfrom right now, for example?
SPEAKER_07 (07:32):
Well, I'm actually recording in uh from Halifax.
I'm here for here for work, uh,but I'm I'm from Toronto, and uh
I'm actually this weekend inHalifax on Saturday gonna go out
and uh get some oriented.
Uh there's a little event goingon just outside of town here.
So one of the things I lovedoing when if I'm traveling
(07:53):
across the country, I'm a trailrunner, so I love to get for a
little run um either in town, uhlike Halifax has a great place,
uh Point Pleasant Park, or justoutside of uh town as well.
One of the things I reallynoticed this as we were landing,
a lot of our cities in Canada,you can get into the woods and
into the nature just on theoutskirts of town.
(08:14):
Yep.
And that's something I I reallyappreciate and love.
SPEAKER_09 (08:17):
Yeah, when I was, as I mentioned when I was in Cubs,
not so much in Cubs, but Scoutsand Ventures, I had a great
Scoutmaster, Ken Ridge, greatguy.
It was a building block, and wespent a lot of time essentially
well, to a lot of listeners whodon't know uh what is
orienteering?
And I'll get into it a bit.
SPEAKER_07 (08:34):
Sure thing.
Um So I I do uh competitiveorienteering, so it's like a
cross-country event, exceptinstead of uh having a marked
trail going from start tofinish, you have to navigate
yourself to find a series ofcheckpoints in the woods.
So you're using a reallydetailed map, sometimes a
compass which you use as a tool,and you've your challenge is to
(08:57):
pick the best route betweenthese checkpoints and get around
the course.
So it's a mental puzzle as muchas it's a race.
And when I say race, um reallypeople you're competing against
yourself, and you're reallyabout kind of how much you're
pushing and enjoying yourself.
More than anything, you're justenjoying being outside.
(09:18):
Some people take it reallyseriously, some people just
really enjoy this as a way toget out and do a hike in the
woods.
SPEAKER_09 (09:24):
Yeah, so essentially it's a lot of map and compass
work, if I correct?
SPEAKER_07 (09:29):
Yeah, really focus on the map more than the
compass.
Some some people really getfascinated with this compass
because it's you know, it's it'sa cool little thing, but we
really tell people really learnhow to read a map.
And an orienteering map is areally specialized version of a
map, but it also helps just yourgeneral navigating after that.
(09:49):
So, you know, after getting intoorienteering, using a topo map
and say Algonquin Park as apiece of cake.
SPEAKER_09 (09:56):
Yeah, I know um a friend of mine, Doug, passed
away now, but Doug was in theNavy and they did the same
thing, uh map and compass workorienteering.
And one of the things that hesaid, you know, they took us out
and they gave us a map andcompass and they told us to go
ahead and do all this.
And he said the biggest lessonthat they learned at the entire
(10:16):
day was because they all gotlost.
And the reason they got lost wasbecause they were using a map
that was 50 years old.
And they didn't check their mapdates to find out that guess
what, all the logging trails orall those trails are all
overgrown now.
And so the first lesson, andevery time I talk about this, he
used to bring up the fact thatwhen he was in the Navy, that
(10:38):
was the number one lessonlearned.
Check the date of the map tomake sure it's updated, because
you could be dealing with someinformation that's well out of
date.
SPEAKER_07 (10:46):
Absolutely.
And it it's, you know, maps arekind of pieces of art.
And so a mapper is gonna decidewhat needs to go on there.
And then exactly as you said, interms of the date of the map,
because some things will change,you know, there may be new
buildings, those trails areovergrown, some deers are gonna
create some uh some tiny trailsthat aren't gonna be on the map.
Yep.
But you need to know, okay,what's not changing?
(11:08):
That big hillside is on the map,and then you can navigate by
that.
There may be a creek on the map.
Okay, I can navigate on that.
I've got my compass, so I knowwhich way is north and I can get
oriented.
And then even if you've got areally out-of-date map, you
probably have some informationthere that you can navigate
with.
SPEAKER_09 (11:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (11:26):
And then you've got to figure out okay, what can I
count on?
Okay, this trail is definitelyon the map.
This one is not.
Um, and how can I find the bestway from A to B?
SPEAKER_09 (11:36):
Okay.
So, Nevin, your position withOrienteering Ontario.
Um, you're the president.
How long have you been thepresident for?
SPEAKER_07 (11:44):
Uh a couple years now uh with Orienteering
Ontario, and I'm also activewith the Toronto Orienteering
Club.
Okay.
So Orienteering Ontario, theumbrella organization, there
we've got a bunch of clubs uhthroughout the province, and we
work with them to promote thesport.
SPEAKER_09 (12:00):
Okay, so roughly how many clubs and where how broad
are they?
Are they like in Thunder Bay andTimmins and Sault Ste.
SPEAKER_07 (12:05):
Marie or something or we're working on that.
We've got clubs in Ottawa,Toronto, the Hamilton area,
Perry Sound, and Collingwood,and a new club in uh the
Kingston area as well.
And uh we're looking at kind ofdeveloping some more.
The one in Ottawa is super,super active.
The one in Kingston is justgetting uh their feet
underground, and uh Hamilton inToronto is really active as
(12:28):
well.
SPEAKER_09 (12:28):
So orienteering, so then are these clubs all
competitive clubs or just peopleout uh to learn how to use a map
and compass and those kind ofthings?
SPEAKER_07 (12:38):
It's a bit tricky that line between competition
and you know, as I said, you'remost people are competing
against themselves.
Uh for orienteering in oursport, our events are are both
recreational and competitive.
So it as opposed to someone whosay is say really enjoys long
distance canoeing, it's easy forthem just to go out and do a
(13:01):
multiple hour canoe uh canoetrip and then they're out there
and doing it.
A lot of people do that, butvery few people do actual, say,
long distance canoe racing.
So at an event at Orienteering,you might find people who are
just going for a good hike andare checking out for just maybe
the second or third time, andthen you may actually have
(13:23):
people on the national team whoare taking it really seriously
and using this as a really hardworkout.
So both of them are at the sameevent.
SPEAKER_09 (13:30):
Okay, so uh there's a national team.
Does that mean there'sinternational events with this?
SPEAKER_07 (13:35):
Absolutely.
There's uh there's a worldchampionship, there's a national
team.
Uh this summer.
Um, sorry, um, orienteering isis in a series of events called
the World Games.
So that's kind of a step belowthe Olympics in terms of a lot
of sports that aren't at theOlympics.
Um, as we know, a lot about theOlympics is about what you can
(13:55):
watch on TV.
And historically, orienteeringis not a television-friendly
sport because people are offrunning around the woods by
themselves.
With GPS nowadays, it's actuallya lot more TV friendly and you
can watch the dots on the map.
But um, yes, there's a world,there's a the world champs,
there's uh world um world cups.
And uh way back in the 90s, inthe early 90s, there was
(14:18):
actually a World Cup hosted bythe Toronto Club in the
Ganaraska Forest, um just eastof uh east of Toronto.
SPEAKER_09 (14:25):
Right.
Now I know a friend of minewho's the best man at my
wedding, Bert.
Uh Bert uh spends well, he's hadover fifty years with the Air
Cadets, and one of the thingsthat he does is actually uh do
some orienteering in the Gany.
And they have a competitionthere, but it's some of the
rules for the Air Cadetcompetition might be different
from yours because his squad wasdisqualified because they didn't
(14:49):
have military boots on.
They actually had hiking bootson in order to run through to do
their runs through the throughthe bush.
Is there certain rules uh thatpeople need to abide by?
SPEAKER_07 (15:00):
Yeah, and actually, well, I'll get back to the
military aspect of it.
There the the big rule is, ofcourse, no GPS.
You gotta use your own smarts toget around the course.
Yep.
W with GPS, it's actually agreat tool in terms of tracking
to find out what you did outthere.
So that's the big thing in termsof you can't use it to navigate,
but you can use it to learn howto navigate better afterwards.
(15:24):
Um, your friend in the cadetsand that military aspect, this
is a great way for people uh inthe forces to really learn how
to be a leader out there.
I actually coached orienteeringin the Canadian forces for a few
summers, uh, coaching a militaryteam that was racing in a NATO
competition, and orienteeringwas one of the sports.
(15:45):
And afterwards, I remember onecaptain coming up and telling
me, you know, the pistolshooting, the rifle shooting is
really fun, but if I cannot getmy troops lost in the woods in
the swamps, they really respectme for that.
And it really teaches them agreat skill around them being a
leader in the forces.
SPEAKER_09 (16:02):
Yeah, Bert Bert was really praising the orienteering
maps.
The orientation maps that youutilize are somewhat different,
are they from uh from regularmaps, are they?
SPEAKER_07 (16:13):
Absolutely.
The big thing with them is thatthey're hyper-detailed.
So versus a topple map you'reusing out in the woods, which
will be one to twenty thousandor one to fifty, you only have
really big features and thingslike roads and that sort of
thing.
Really frustrating to navigatebecause uh it's just hard to
know what's going to show up onthe map.
The orienteering maps tend to beone to one to ten thousand, and
(16:37):
they've had an actual mapper outthere using LIDAR uh material
and then actually walkingthrough the train, making sure
that everything's actually onthe map.
And so there'll be things likestreams and smaller trails and
boulders and that sort of thing.
And then as you're navigating,you need to decide what is
useful.
(16:58):
So if it's a matter of runningdown the trail, look for a big
boulder, and then no, I have tolook for a valley to the right,
well, that boulder is going tobe on the map.
And as I said, the mapper, it'sa bit of an art.
They need to decide what goes onthe map if it's relevant or not.
SPEAKER_09 (17:15):
Right.
Yeah, and so where do you wheredoes one get these orienteering
maps from?
Where can you order them?
SPEAKER_07 (17:21):
Well, they're produced by the clubs.
So if you take a look atorienteeringOntario.ca, you can
uh find a club near them orcontact us with Orienteering
Ontario and we'll see in termsof what uh what's available and
of course uh what do you havepermission to go on?
Sometimes they're in these mapsor say conservation area or
(17:42):
parks, and it's easy for that.
But if it's a private land, uhthen permission, of course, is
really important.
SPEAKER_09 (17:48):
So, Nevin, what does somebody who's never been
involved in orienteering before,what do they need to do or to
have to get involved?
SPEAKER_07 (17:57):
Well, I think first of anything, a really a great
enjoyment of getting outdoorsand and uh a spirit of uh not
being worried if you get a bitlost.
So, say you go to a local event,um the clubs are super friendly.
There's usually a clinic to helpyou get going.
You need to dress for theoutdoors, be it if you're a
(18:18):
trail runner or if you're ahiker, then get ready for that.
Uh get ready to get your feetdirty.
Um, because you'll be goingright through the mud or off
trail through uh through thewoods as well.
So these events will have abeginner-friendly uh setup, and
the easier courses tend to be ontrails or on major handrails
(18:39):
like that to get you around.
And then the the more advancedcourses will be off the trail
through the woods, and youreally have to kind of know what
you're doing in terms of of howto navigate and use those maps.
But it's it's a pretty simplething to jump in, and then um
then it's a lot of trial anderror and just learning how to
go.
SPEAKER_09 (18:58):
Right.
So you mentioned about thesecourses, and I and I know uh I
spent uh I've I actually hikedabout uh several hundred miles
of the Bruce Trail.
How do you find these courses?
Uh uh are they listed at theclubs with uh Orienteering
Ontario or how?
SPEAKER_07 (19:16):
Yep, they are say there are specific events.
So a few of the clubs havepermanent courses out there that
you can go and check out, butoften they'll be or mostly
they're they're for the specificevents who'll uh who'll get them
set up.
And then yep, sorry, go ahead.
No, that's okay.
Go ahead.
And then how do you navigate?
That's one of the things that wealways tell people is um you can
(19:39):
navigate the speed of what youcan move.
So some people want to runreally fast and they can run
faster than they can think.
And other people just kind ofmosey along and they never make
a mistake and they go absolutelyuh absolutely accurate around
the course and they'll end upbeating the the other guys who
are running in the wrongdirection.
So it's you know, it's it's abit like we've we've had people
(20:03):
compare it to golf.
If someone is a big and strongperson, they can really hit the
ball, but they are probablysacrificing the accuracy.
And then there's other peoplewho can work on their skill and
they won't have the power andthe strength, but holy cow, are
they ever accurate.
So people have to pick um picktheir strengths around that.
SPEAKER_09 (20:24):
I recall when I was in scouts, did scouting, we had
uh competitions as well.
And what they used to do wouldbe they would give you the map,
you'd use your own compass, ofcourse, and they would give you
the instructions uh in there.
And when you got to a site, uhpoint turning point or uh a
point where you register, therewas actually like a triangle
(20:47):
there that they had um I thinkit was like different punches
inside it or numbers orconfigurations that you took or
stamps that you put on yourinformation to show that you
were actually at that site.
Do you understand?
Have you do you know is that thesame sort of thing that they do?
SPEAKER_07 (21:05):
No, we are using modern technology.
So there's a little transponder.
So as you go around, I shouldprobably should have mentioned
this, at an event, you're gonnabe issued this little
transponder that you carry.
And then when you get to whatthe checkpoints or controls,
what they're called, uh youbasically you punch or you just
put it, you put your transponderinto the little receiver, and
(21:26):
it's gonna beep and recognizethat you were there.
The reason that's important isthat there when you finish, you
then download the information ofyou going around the course.
That's not gonna have your GPSof where you went, but it is
gonna show that you went to thethe right checkpoints in the
right order.
So that's really important, andit's gonna have the time of
where you spent.
(21:47):
And so when you take a look atresults later, you can be like,
holy cow, one to three, I wasabsolutely flying.
And then from two to four, holycow, did I ever make mistakes?
But um, most of the events arepoint-to-point, you have to go
in a certain era, certain order.
Some of them you can make upyour own order to get around the
course, and then you've got tokind of pick your best route
(22:10):
from one checkpoint to another.
SPEAKER_05 (22:17):
Back in 2016, Frank and I had a vision to amass the
single largest database of muskyangling education material
anywhere in the world.
SPEAKER_04 (22:26):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.
SPEAKER_05 (22:33):
Thus, the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.
SPEAKER_04 (22:40):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.
SPEAKER_05 (22:53):
The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about
fishing, it's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport.
Through laughter, throughcamaraderie, and an unwavering
spirit of adventure, thispodcast will bring people
together.
Subscribe now and never miss amoment of our angling
adventures.
SPEAKER_04 (23:11):
Tight lines, everyone.
SPEAKER_05 (23:13):
Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.
SPEAKER_09 (23:32):
Okay, we're with Bev here in Lindsay.
And Bev, you've got someexperience with Chaga that you'd
like to share with some people.
Tell us uh two stories.
Start with your father's story.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
Hi, Derry.
Um well, um my dad had mentionedto me that he was struggling
with his blood pressure and he'dgone on meds and it wasn't
bringing it down.
He was running around 180, 185,and wasn't enjoying that at all.
And um and so I suggested thathe try the chaga tea because I
knew some other people that hadhad good experience with it, and
(24:06):
I knew my own experience withit.
He started doing the chaga teaevery day.
Um he stuck it in with hiscoffee, so he only had to drink
one thing a day, and withinthree weeks he had dropped from
180 to 140, which he was reallyexcited about.
But what he was even moreexcited about was that about
three to four weeks after that,he had gone down to 125.
(24:27):
So we're really grateful for thedifference the chaga has made
with his blood pressure.
SPEAKER_09 (24:33):
There wasn't any other medications or changes,
this had the change?
SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
No, this was the actually the only shift.
He didn't shift anythingdiet-wise, physical
exercise-wise at all.
The only thing he added in thathe hadn't been doing before was
chaga.
SPEAKER_09 (24:45):
And he put it in his coffee, I believe.
I forgot.
And he put it in his coffee.
Very good.
Okay, and you have your ownstory now.
I have my own story.
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
So I I started on chaga when I um I met Jerry just
as I realized that I was goinginto a relapse of multiple
cirrhosis, that I I had notrelapsed for approximately 25
years, so I was a littlestartled about it and wanted to
get on it.
And um, so I was in the processof changing a lot of things so
(25:12):
that I could um go back intorelapse rather than dealing with
the MS symptoms.
And so I did change diet and Istopped physical exercise so
that my body would have morerest and I added the chakra in.
And within within a I meanwithin five days, I noticed that
the nerve sensory issues I washaving in my legs was already
(25:35):
settling down, and within aboutthree weeks I had the strength
to walk unassisted again.
And I am about three months innow, and um I have um taken a
10-day break from it a couple oftimes just to, you know, you
know, just so that my body, youknow, can stay balanced, you
(25:57):
know, without it.
But every time I go back on it,I um I can feel the difference
in mental clarity and in the waymy nerves are communicating, and
I'm I'm walking very, very wellnow.
SPEAKER_09 (26:10):
Very good.
Well, thank you very much forsharing your story with us.
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
No, thanks for thanks for hollering me and
asking me to try a free cup thatone farmer's market morning.
SPEAKER_09 (26:19):
Well, I'm glad it's working out for you.
Thanks, Jerry.
Okay.
We interrupt this program tobring you a special offer from
Chaga Health and Wellness.
If you've listened this far andyou're still wondering about
this strange mushroom that Ikeep talking about, and whether
(26:42):
you would benefit from it ornot, I may have something of
interest to you.
To thank you for listening tothe show, I'm going to make
trying Chaga that much easier.
By giving you a dollar off allour Chaga products at checkout.
All you have to do is head overto our website, Chaga Health and
Wellness.com, place a few itemsin the cart, and check out with
(27:04):
the code CANopy.
C-A-N-O-P-Y.
If you're new to Chaga, I'dhighly recommend the regular
Chaga tea.
This comes with 15 tea bags perpackage, and each bag gives you
around five or six cups of tea.
Hey, thanks for listening.
Back to the episode.
(27:24):
Now, uh and I had friends thatactually they um they would do
walking tours in England andScotland.
And so what they did was uh theywould get their information and
then they walk would basicallywalk from town to town over
lands and and through fields andthings like that.
(27:44):
Is there similar, you know, andin the same with bike riders, I
know quite a few bike ridersthat actually will go to Italy
to ride their bikes or throughthe Swiss uh the Alps and those
sort of things.
Is it similar for orienteeringthat that they have different
courses or competitions aroundthat people go to?
SPEAKER_07 (28:00):
Yeah, there's there's competitions um and
events all all over, especiallyin Europe.
Orienteering is originally aScandinavian sport.
It started in Sweden after WorldWar II as a way to train the
army, and that's one of thereasons we've got a lot of rules
because they like a lot of rulesin the army.
Um and then it came to Canada inthe 60s and 70s through European
(28:22):
immigrants.
And so orienteering is probablybiggest in Sweden.
If you remember those oldparticipaction commercials
saying the average 60-year-oldSwede is fitter than the
30-year-old Canadian, well,orienteering was part of that
kind of promotion of outdoorfitness that we saw in Canada.
So Scandinavia is where thissport is probably at the
(28:43):
biggest, and then uh other partsof Europe, uh, they have big
events as well.
And it's really fascinating.
I've I've done this all overCanada and and in um in the US
and a bit in Europe, and it'sreally interesting to be, say,
in Interior BC and how differentthe woods are than, say,
Gatineau Park.
(29:04):
And as you're going through,it's you know, it's interesting
all the rock features thatyou've got to navigate with,
looking for cliffs and boulders,versus out there, it's kind of a
mixture of this open plain andgrasslands and uh and really big
hills at times.
So as you do this sport, youreally learn how to navigate and
be able to navigate withdifferent um different types of
(29:26):
terrain as well.
SPEAKER_09 (29:27):
Now I recall about a year ago watching a movie that I
would think would be very muchorienteering.
It was kind of a uh a race inone of the Caribbean countries
or in Central America, wherethey did a lot of training for,
and then there was cross countrysort of thing.
Is is that was that promotingorienteering, or is that was
(29:48):
that an orient do you know whatI'm talking about?
SPEAKER_07 (29:50):
I know exactly what you're talking about, and uh I'm
trying it is called uh Arthurthe King, that movie about uh
about adventure.
Racing.
Right.
And adventure racing ormulti-sport racing is really a
big beefed up version oforienteering.
Yeah.
And if you remember a few yearsago, there were events called
(30:11):
the Eco Challenge.
And again, these are just reallybig versions of the same sport
because they're navigating thoseraces, the like the that Arthur
the King movie, they're using,you know, mountain biking and
paddling in addition totrekking, but they're really
also still trying to navigateand getting from A to B.
(30:32):
So Orienteering is a great kindof starter for that.
Um, and then advancing into thatadventure racing.
Um and they actually had theNorth American Championships of
that this summer in uh Par inSudbury area.
Uh Orienteering Ontario is oneof the sponsors of that, and uh
was really fascinating to seehow those races did.
(30:55):
Now, those races are are, as Isaid, a lot bigger and longer,
sometimes over multiple days.
Um, but the core of that, how toget from A to B through the
woods is still the same.
SPEAKER_09 (31:07):
So Orienteering is basically just on land, and it
doesn't include any traversingacross waterways and things like
that as well?
SPEAKER_07 (31:14):
It really depends.
I know in uh in Ottawa theywould have a canoe orienteering
event uh in Gatneau Park, goinguh uh in some of the lakes there
with a whole bunch of islands.
And it's interesting, like whenI uh will go on a canamp on
canoe camping in Algonquin Parkand navigating with the map, and
it's a really different featureto be able to navigate from the
(31:37):
boat um versus in the land.
You're using the same skills,but as a navigator, you've got
to think about okay, what can Isee?
What kind of speed am I goingat, and how can I recognize
that?
SPEAKER_09 (31:49):
Uh-huh.
Now, is orienteering basically auh just a seasonal sport, or is
it something that's done allyear?
SPEAKER_07 (31:56):
It's it's kind of done all year, depending on the
weather.
Um again, if you don't mindgetting your feet wet and a bit
chilly, uh, then this takesplace.
In Southern Ontario, we have anthe Ontario Cup, which is a
series of very casual events uhin and around Hamilton, Toronto,
Southern Ontario.
And I know in uh the Ottawa areathey have events throughout the
(32:18):
winter as well.
SPEAKER_09 (32:19):
Yeah, I know.
So you mentioned that boulder onon some of the maps that are
listed on the Ontario maps,where all of a sudden in the
wintertime, how much howaccurate can those maps be then
if they're snow-covered bouldersand and the streams are covered
over and things like that?
SPEAKER_07 (32:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
And a good event director isgonna take that into account.
And they're gonna look and say,okay, um, they're mostly gonna
be on trails.
Let's keep the courses focusedon that.
Um and uh knowing what thecompetitor you want to keep it
fair for everyone.
So again, the event directorswill take this into account uh
(32:54):
in how they put their coursetogether.
SPEAKER_09 (32:57):
Yeah, I recall uh I was up with my uncle, and uh we
were at uh staying at my aunt'shusband's trap camp, and we were
quite a ways into the bush, andand I had uh I I always carried
map and compass with myself.
That was long before GPS was uhunits were available.
(33:20):
Anyways, I I recall I said uh tomy uncle, we were out uh down a
trail.
I said, look, I'm gonna I'mgonna I'm gonna map and compass
across here and I'll pick upthis road here about a mile
away.
And he was like what did yousay?
He because he used to work um itwas uh it was rescue.
(33:41):
He used to do uh remote wildnessrescue where he would do they
would send him in and he said,Really?
He says none of the guys I knowwould be able to do.
I said, Yeah, I'm just gonna goacross.
It's only around that small lakethere, and then I'll catch back
up here, and then I'll I'll meetyou back over there.
You can just take these uh theseskitter trails where I'm going
cross country, and he was quiteshocked.
So, Devin, where else can peopleutilize a lot of this um
(34:04):
orienteering uh expertise?
SPEAKER_07 (34:06):
Well, you just described a great example of
this in terms of knowing whatyou described in terms of I'm
just gonna take the compassacross the woods and hit
something.
In orienteering, we call thatrough compass because you know
you're gonna come out at theroad or at the lake on the other
side.
It doesn't matter that you'renot perfectly accurate because
you're gonna be able to relocatewhen you come out the other
(34:28):
side.
Um, and some people will say,hey, that's the best way to
navigate.
I'm just gonna go through thewoods and keep straight.
Your friend there who was takingthe little trails and doing it
like that, he's sticking totrails.
Depending on the speed of hisnavigating, he might beat you
there or you may beat him.
Um, in terms of where the eventsare, as I said, checking out
(34:49):
orienteeringOntario.ca, we'llhave a whole bunch of uh
listings there of what theevents are, and you can always
people can always just contactus directly and happy to reach
out.
I wanted to flag a coupleprograms, just if you'd let me.
Sure.
Uh one is uh a really great kidsprogram that's out of uh the the
(35:10):
the club called Don't Get Lostin the Hamilton area.
It's called the AdventureRunning Kids Program.
So it's been going about 15years.
It's a bit like Timbit's hockeyor soccer, oh yeah, in that is
for young kids, and it is not acompetition.
It is about getting the kidsoutdoors and enjoying getting
muddy and getting a sense ofadventure.
(35:32):
So they do a lot of games.
Like, say there'll be a there'llbe a drill on working on
balance.
Well, they're gonna get in thewoods and find a tree log and
say, okay, this game, we'regonna do a little relay of
running over the rock, the log,and really working on kids'
balances.
And it, you know, some of thesekids will go in and become
competitive runners or maybe anorienteer, but more than
(35:53):
anything, they're just gonnaenjoy getting out in the woods
and enjoying that.
So that's how old are we how oldwould these kids be?
I think it's like eight totwelve.
Okay.
Very good.
So that's that's a really greatprogram.
And then one other event alsonear Hamilton is called Raid the
Hammer.
So it's in late October, it's inteams of three, and it's about a
half marathon distance, and itreally shows off the awesome
(36:16):
terrain around the NiagaraEscarpment, and it's one of my
favorite events to do everyyear.
SPEAKER_09 (36:21):
Yeah, I know one of the with my own sons, Josh and
Garrett, uh, we always spendtime in the bush, and I always
show them and I always make surethey have a compass with them so
they can go.
But so many people are afraid ofthe bush.
And they're afraid to go in.
And I've met so many people thatso long as they can see the road
or that trail or things likethat, they're fine.
(36:42):
But you get them off, they justkind of panic.
And with a lot of it, I thinkit's just like a pilot.
One of the first things theythey train pilots is to believe
your instruments.
Because I know when I firststarted, I'm looking at my
compass.
No, that's wrong.
It's got to be wrong.
No, your compass isn't wrong.
You're turned around a bit.
And you don't really get lost alot of times.
We never get lost, we just getturned around a bit, right?
(37:05):
100%.
SPEAKER_07 (37:06):
People ask, oh, do you ever get lost?
And I say, all the time.
Yep.
But it's a matter of like, do Iknow exactly where I am on the
hillside?
No.
Yeah.
But I know if I go down to thebottom of the hillside, there's
a creek there, and then I'll beable to figure out where I am.
Or if I go to the top of thehill all the way up there, I'm
gonna know where I am.
(37:26):
So I I kind of use the map, andexactly as you say, so often
I'll say, No, the compass is Iam right, the compass is wrong.
Well, guess who turns out to beright in the end of the day?
Exactly.
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_09 (37:40):
Yeah, and so so we mentioned so what equipment
would a newbie coming into thesport need, like the hiking
boots and what kind of uh ummaps that they need, a compass,
and what other sort of things?
SPEAKER_07 (37:52):
Again, through the club uh showing up, they'll be
able to rent you a compass.
If you've seen the big rangercompasses with the mirrors and
that sort of thing, that isoverkill.
And so the compass that I use iscalled a thumb compass, so it's
really just the compass thatwill go in the hand that I'm
holding the map.
(38:13):
And as I said, we we use thecompass as a tool, and you're
really about using the map.
Yeah.
Um, we have some people who are,you know, they're almost a slave
to their compass.
And they say, okay, well, if Igo one kilometer following the
compass, I'm gonna hit this.
(38:34):
Well, that's one way to do it,but if you look on the map and
say, well, that way was gonnatake me through a giant swamp,
versus if I read the map, I knowthere's a trail over there and
I'll go around the swamp andwe'll be a lot easier.
That's why we tell people, youknow, really work on learning
the map and using it.
SPEAKER_09 (38:53):
Right.
Right.
Now that ranger compass that youwere talking about as well with
the mirror, I know I I probablyhave a couple of those, but they
they don't really get out.
They're kind of backups that Ihave that people gave me or
that, but and I never really usethem.
But I have when I was in Scouts,I was uh one of the only seven
in actually in the world, but inCanada I was uh uh my
(39:15):
scoutmaster actually presentedus um John John Henry Bickle and
myself with uh Silva Compassthat we still use to this day,
and we received that from thembecause uh we achieved our Chief
and Queen Scout Awards uh inCanada.
And we were the only there'sonly seven of us in the world,
but uh uh it was one somethingthat I still have to this day
and use on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_07 (39:37):
Yeah, that's excellent.
As you say, um, you know, Istill my compass is a bunch of
years old.
Though they don't uh they're notgonna wear out.
You don't want to step on themor break them or anything like
that.
But uh in terms of a new anewbie coming out, um the clubs
will have uh compass for you toborrow to get out there.
(39:58):
And the courses, the theintroductory courses, there's
very little compass work.
It's much more on kind oflearning the map.
And uh there's usually aboutfour courses.
So for someone's first day out,the first course is could be
hopefully pretty easy for them,and then they can try out a
little more challenging oneafter that.
SPEAKER_09 (40:18):
Now, Nevin, as well, some of I gotta be honest,
though they they used to haveall kinds of different
compasses, and there was thosepin-on ones that you'd put on
that pin on, and they actuallydidn't work where the darn I
thought they were terriblebecause if you didn't hold it
just right, it's stuck and thenand then the because it's in a
round ball and it kind of pinson your jacket.
So I I always have mine uhactually right along my belt so
(40:42):
it's it's tied into my belt loopso I'm going through the bush I
don't lose it.
And those are just some of thethings that I recall.
But what other sort of stuffdoes somebody need?
So you mentioned the compass,but what about clothing and and
other things?
Well, how about tick repellent?
You need that.
SPEAKER_07 (40:57):
Yeah, that's becoming more and more of a
challenge.
There's there's something youknow we really have to watch out
for in terms of getting out ofthe woods.
Uh I've been really lucky thatI've I've barely ever had ticks,
but it's something that wereally encourage people to watch
out for.
So how you dress, again, uhfootwear.
Uh footwear is always important,um, but it should be the same
(41:19):
shoes.
Again, if you're a trail runneror if you're a hiker, whatever's
gonna give you stability in thewoods.
And then you're gonna dress umhow you see fit in the being
outdoors.
Some people show up with bigbackpacks with a lunch and all
that, and say, look, you're onlygonna be out there for about an
hour, leave that in the car.
Um, and you don't want to becarrying that around.
(41:42):
So uh footwear is reallyimportant.
And then if you're in one of thecourses that's off trail, that's
gonna depend on how thick thewoods are in terms of how you're
gonna do.
SPEAKER_09 (41:51):
Yeah, it's it's interesting.
Um, some of those ones who whenI was I was doing some work at
Fort Severn, not Port Severn,but Fort Severn where uh
Manitoba, Ontario, and Hudson'sBay come together.
It's a northernmost community.
And I was actually with a uhCanadian ranger who did training
for the the Rangers in uh thefar north.
(42:12):
It was interesting.
He said, uh now I asked, he justasked basic questions about uh,
well, where would you set upyour uh your your camp here?
And he says, the last group thatI had, and I showed him and he
said, Yeah, that's where itshould be.
And he said, the last group Ihad, they set up here.
But it was at low tide, and theydidn't realize.
And when the tide came up, theyall of a sudden had to scramble
(42:34):
and move their camp because itwas now underwater.
But one of the things that hehad was, of course, he had his
compass and his mapsinformation, but he also had a
basic supply uh emergency kitwhich included tea and some uh
communication devices and thingslike that.
What other sort of safetydevices do you recommend for
people who are going into thebush and trying it on their own?
SPEAKER_07 (42:57):
Uh and I don't I want to come back to being uh
under underwater and tell youabout a really special map out
east.
But uh one of the safetyfeatures is just in events in
Canada, uh you have to carry awhistle.
And that is just one of thesesafety things that if you sprain
an ankle or do something worse,uh then three blasts on the
whistle is going to indicatethat you are uh it's you're in
(43:22):
an emergency out there.
Um for that for those longerevents, like those adventure
challengers or venture racersand multi-day one, they have
really specific gear lists thatthey have to carry, exactly that
kind of emergency uh setup.
For the raid the hammer, we havea uh there's a minimum amount of
water that you have to carry,because those are say uh a long
(43:44):
uh half half marathon distances.
Um so it'll be something like anemergency blanket, X amount of
water, uh, and maybe a safetykit, but those are for really
specific events.
Um for most of the small ones,it's the whistle is the most
important ones, and that's justfor really emergencies out
there.
Um it's incredible how fewpeople get injured doing this
(44:08):
sport.
Uh the number one, probably thetwo uh major injuries that
people get are blisters fromtheir shoes not fitting right,
uh, and then the odds sprainedankle.
And that's about it that we thatwe trish traditionally see.
SPEAKER_09 (44:24):
Right.
And well, and the other thingwas um some of the other things
we always had uh the first thingwe always had in our pack when
we were packing was uh rain gearto make sure it was uh on top
and it was the first thing youwere able to access.
So it but in orienteering,basically there's no rock
climbing and things like that?
SPEAKER_07 (44:43):
Not really rock.
You have to get from A to B.
And so say there's a reallydangerous cliff or a really
steep cliff on it, the eventorganizer is gonna be smart
enough not to send people overthat.
They they're gonna say around.
And if you find yourself out inthe woods climbing down a steep
cliff, you are probably notsupposed to be do that.
(45:06):
And uh it's kind of your faultfor thinking that's gonna be the
best route.
Um no, and uh in terms of rain,this is a all season sport.
So rain is notoriously makesnavigation uh extra tricky.
Both my parents, who I grew updoing this for my parents, both
of them needed reading glasses.
(45:28):
You can imagine what rain doesto that.
Um so as we plan our courses,um, one of the things, you know,
it's an outdoor sport in thenature.
Uh if it's raining, we'll oftenfind that the times will be a
lot slower because it's justtrickier to navigate when things
are like that.
SPEAKER_09 (45:47):
Right.
Right.
Now you mentioned about thewhistle and three blasts.
We were always taught that um itwas uh a blast, one one
thousand, two one thousand,three one thousand, a blast, one
one thousand, two one thousand,three one thousand, another
blast.
Is what uh we we were alwaystaught uh in ka in scouting is
(46:08):
just to make sure there wasconsistency.
So people heard that.
And I don't know if it's thesame or the that's sort of
saying that they have now ornot.
SPEAKER_07 (46:16):
Yeah, it's it's it's similar.
And um, you know, it's it'speople have pretty good spirits.
And actually in Europe a fewyears ago, uh at the World
Championships, and during therelay race, which a lot of the
countries take super this is thethe most competitive race, there
was a pack of three of the topcountries who were running, and
(46:39):
one of the guys got a uh I thinkit was a really nasty cut um
through some s some sharpbranches.
Uh, and two of the other leadingcompetitors saw him, and they
both stopped and and helped him.
And the three of them got out ofthe woods, uh kind of gave up
the race, but that was thespirit of um of the competitors
(47:01):
out there in terms of everyonecomes back, and you know,
there's more more importantthings uh than the actual race.
Um I it's been I don't think Ihave blown my whistle because of
uh either being super super lostor hurt since I was about 10
years old.
Um usually if you get saycompletely turned around and
(47:23):
completely lost and you'll findanother competitor and you look
and you need help, someone'sgonna help you out out there.
Uh and as I said, the whistle isonly for if you're really,
really injured.
SPEAKER_09 (47:36):
Right.
Now and the other thing I Ithink is is people need to just
remain the biggest they if theykeep calm.
SPEAKER_07 (47:42):
When people start to panic, absolutely, absolutely is
where they get into trouble.
SPEAKER_09 (47:47):
And I always and I and I know I've looked for some
done some search and rescue forsome people, and I said, let's
go this way, and they said, Whyare we going that way?
And I said, Well, when peoplestart to panic, they take the
path of least resistance.
And if you look through here,they can go straight through
here, and lo and lo and behold,every single time you pick up
tracks and and people becausethey they start to panic and
(48:10):
they start doing things, and ifthey start running or going the
wrong ways, they take the pathof I've always found they've
taken the path of leastresistance.
And we have always picked uptracks and be able to find
people that way.
So keeping calm is veryimportant as to so when you
start to panic is when peoplehave problems.
SPEAKER_07 (48:27):
You absolutely nailed it.
And my coach growing up wouldtalk about take some seconds to
save some minutes.
Yep.
And you know, orienteeringagain, you can't really do it if
you're stressed and mentallystressed, and you need to stay
calm.
So if you say made a mistakeearly in the race, you'll see
(48:48):
people pushing extra hard andtrying to take chances.
And if you're worried about thator thinking about that, you're
gonna make more mistakes outthere.
And as you say, staying calm outthere, say, okay, I don't know
exactly where I am, but let'sall uh, you know, if you're out
there camping or hiking andyou're saying, okay, I think
we're I think we're on adifferent trail, or this doesn't
(49:09):
make sense, let's just calmdown, let's make sure we can
relocate exactly where we are.
Maybe we're gonna go out to alake and say, okay, we're
exactly at this point because Ican see this little island, and
you take you stay calm, um, andyou take some time to relocate
and figure out where you are,that's super, super important.
SPEAKER_09 (49:30):
Right.
Now, Nevin, you mentioned aboutuh you had a story about the I
think it was East Coast and thetide.
SPEAKER_07 (49:36):
Absolutely.
And since I'm uh calling in herefrom Atlantic Canada, there's
actually, if you've heard of umthe Bay of Fundy and the um, I
think it's it's the flower potuh islands out there with the
really high tides, there'sactually an orienteering map
that's under the the ocean floorthere.
Oh, really?
And so they've had somecompetitions when that's at low
(49:59):
tide and have navigated have putyou know the big boulders on the
map, and this is what the trainlooks like when the tide is out.
And you know, those events areexactly from this time until
that time.
Uh and you better be off the mapbecause the tide's coming in
after that.
So it's it's one of the moreinteresting maps in the country
here.
SPEAKER_09 (50:18):
Right.
Yeah, okay.
Nevin, how do people find outmore information or how do they
get in touch with you and findout more details about your
organization or or yourself?
SPEAKER_07 (50:28):
Absolutely.
Please uh take a look at uhorienteeringontario.ca.
You're welcome to send us aquick email if you'd like to
find out.
We list uh the clubs there andwe're happy to put you in touch,
or you can reach out to theclubs uh that may be near you.
Or if you and uh say some ofyour friends are looking to get
uh if you're in an area thatthere's not an event, then we
(50:52):
would love to uh chat with youto see if we can have some
resources to help uh get thingsgoing there as well.
SPEAKER_09 (50:58):
Well, thank you very much, Nevin French, the
president of the OrienteeringOntario, for taking the time to
inform us about in Orienteeringand all the uh the great
opportunities to be out thereand enjoy just another way to
enjoy things out there under thecanopy.
Thanks very much, Nevin.
SPEAKER_07 (51:14):
Thank you so much for going on.
I'd love to see you in the woodsand uh your listeners out there
as well.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (51:58):
But this podcast will be more than that.
Every week on Diaries of a LodgeOwner, I'm going to introduce
you to a ton of great people.
Share their stories of ourtrials, tribulations, and
inspirations.
Learn and have plenty of laughsalong the way.
SPEAKER_02 (52:14):
Meanwhile, we're sitting there bobbing along
trying to figure out how tocatch a bass.
And we both decided one day wewere going to be on television
doing a fishing job.
SPEAKER_11 (52:24):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in thesummertime, but that's might be
more efficient than it waspunchy.
You so confidently you said, HeyPat, have you ever eaten a
drink?
SPEAKER_03 (52:36):
Find diaries of a lodge owner now on Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever youget your podcast.
Hi everybody, I'm Angelo Viola.
And I'm Pete Bowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
SPEAKER_11 (00:10):
That's right.
Every Thursday, Ann and I willbe right here in your ears,
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Hmm.
Now what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
SPEAKER_11 (00:20):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors.
From athletes.
SPEAKER_11 (00:34):
All the other guys would go golfing.
Me and Garchom Turk, and all theRussians would go fishing.
SPEAKER_10 (00:40):
The scientists.
And now that we're reforestingaway things, it's the perfect
transmission environment to linewith these.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
Chefs, if any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
for you will taste it.
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
And whoever else will pick up the phone.
Wherever you are, OutdoorJournal Radio seeks to answer
the questions and tell thestories of all those who enjoy
being outside.
SPEAKER_11 (01:02):
Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_09 (01:22):
But they are still available to those who know
where to listen.
I'm Jerry Olach, and I washonored to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
(01:44):
In 2015, I was introduced to thebirch-hungry fungus known as
Chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest, use testimonials, and
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession.
And I now spend my lifededicated to improving the lives
(02:06):
of others through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Underthe Canopy podcast, I'm going to
take you along with me to seethe places, meet the people that
(02:29):
will help you find your outdoorpassion and help you live a life
close to nature and under thecanopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode, and hopefully we
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
(02:50):
Okay, as always, we want tothank all our listeners here in
uh Rosk, right across Canada,Ontario, all through the States,
around the world, Switzerland,Ghana, Ghana, Trinidad, Tobago,
Friends and Bermuda, the Bahamasas well.
You know, it's um it's that timeof year when the colors start
changing, but I think we're alittle bit ahead.
Normally by Thanksgiving weekendin Ontario, where we go up in
(03:14):
central Ontario, which is kindof halfway between Bancroft and
Halliburton, for those lookingon a map, kind of about two and
a half hours north north east ofToronto.
It's Thanksgiving weekend whenwe see peak colors, but I'm
telling you, I would say that Iwas out through the bush
yesterday, and the colors werecertainly uh prevalent
(03:35):
everywhere and and in highchange mode, let's say.
I think the the dry fall and thedryness that we've had uh is is
having them change a little bitearly.
But I want to do a shout out toCheryl and Halliburton, a
faithful listener, who talked tome Tuesday last and brought up
some questions and reallyenjoyed the last uh podcast
where she talked uh where Italked about the Chaga and she
(03:58):
brought up a lot of detailsabout it.
But it's that time of the yearas well.
Not only the color is changing,but I'm getting ready to head up
uh for my Chaga camp where I'lldo my picking.
And normally I get up inSeptember, and what we do is uh
I do an assessment of the campis uh uh uh the propane in the
tank.
So we got uh a hundred pounderand plus I have a thirty-pound
(04:18):
backup.
Not only that, but I also checkto make sure oh the the the the
stove uh pipe is is good for thefor the sauna, because that's uh
we use the sauna as a uh cleanuparea for ourselves instead of a
shower or anything.
We're off grid, completelyoff-grid in this location.
I have a generator that uh justa small like a thousand watt one
(04:38):
that we use to run lights andsome of the some basic things so
at nightwork works out good forus.
And uh, you know, and then Iassess the camp, okay, do I need
paper towels, do I need paperplates, and all the rest of it.
But I've just been so busy thisyear that I haven't had a chance
to.
So I'm gonna have to kind ofwing it and wait till I get up
to camp up north to have a seeuh what I need and then take it
(05:02):
from there.
But uh I started doing thegrocery buying, which I do the
meal plan, the grocery buyingand everything, and I think
we've got on average about fiveor six in camp on an ongoing
basis.
So some come, some go, with alot of helpers from a lot of
people, and we really enjoy andappreciate all the support that
we get from everybody.
Not only that, but my own livingapothecary is that uh time of
(05:25):
year where we're doing ourharvesting.
And let me see, you know, lavageI've harvested about a month
ago.
And lavage is a great, uh it'skind of a celery, uh peppery
celery kind of substitute thatgoes in great in soups and stews
and things like that.
But also our apples are ripe andstarting to fall or have been
(05:47):
falling, so we've beenharvesting them.
My mints, both my uh spearmintand peppermint and sage and
lemon balm are all gettingready.
And as we have had Bev Delonardoon the uh podcast, putting those
and taking those seeds up sowe'll do some new plants and
some new areas that will seedwith those kind of seeds to see
(06:08):
if we can get them coming up indifferent areas as well.
But not only that, and a lot ofthe herbalists will tell you
that things like sumac.
Now, sumac is is about primeright now and great tasting,
makes a great tea, but otherthings like mullen, burdock,
milk, thistle, etc.
etc.
Time to harvest a lot of thatstuff so you can move forward
(06:31):
with your own apothecary to tohelp us through all the winter
stuff.
And today we have uh a specialguest coming on, and it uh we're
gonna talk about being out inthe bush or under under the
canopy as always.
And I know when I was back inCubs and Scouts and Venturers,
(06:52):
we spent a lot of time doingthis with my scoutmaster, Ken
Ridge, who was uh one of thebest around, great guy, great
building block, as my mentionedin the past in my life.
But I have the president ofOrienteering Ontario, Nevin
French from Toronto on to talkabout the sports.
Welcome to the podcast, Nevin.
SPEAKER_07 (07:10):
Thank you so much.
I'm really appreciate uh youhaving on having me on this and
uh really love uh the fact thatyou promote uh being out
outdoors in the in the woods andin the wild, and that's
something I love doing and andour sport really encourages
people to get out into the woodsas much.
SPEAKER_09 (07:26):
Well, that's great.
Well, uh Nevin, tell us a bitabout yourself.
Like, where are you recordingfrom right now, for example?
SPEAKER_07 (07:32):
Well, I'm actually recording in uh from Halifax.
I'm here for here for work, uh,but I'm I'm from Toronto, and uh
I'm actually this weekend inHalifax on Saturday gonna go out
and uh get some oriented.
Uh there's a little event goingon just outside of town here.
So one of the things I lovedoing when if I'm traveling
(07:53):
across the country, I'm a trailrunner, so I love to get for a
little run um either in town, uhlike Halifax has a great place,
uh Point Pleasant Park, or justoutside of uh town as well.
One of the things I reallynoticed this as we were landing,
a lot of our cities in Canada,you can get into the woods and
into the nature just on theoutskirts of town.
(08:14):
Yep.
And that's something I I reallyappreciate and love.
SPEAKER_09 (08:17):
Yeah, when I was, as I mentioned when I was in Cubs,
not so much in Cubs, but Scoutsand Ventures, I had a great
Scoutmaster, Ken Ridge, greatguy.
It was a building block, and wespent a lot of time essentially
well, to a lot of listeners whodon't know uh what is
orienteering?
And I'll get into it a bit.
SPEAKER_07 (08:34):
Sure thing.
Um So I I do uh competitiveorienteering, so it's like a
cross-country event, exceptinstead of uh having a marked
trail going from start tofinish, you have to navigate
yourself to find a series ofcheckpoints in the woods.
So you're using a reallydetailed map, sometimes a
compass which you use as a tool,and you've your challenge is to
(08:57):
pick the best route betweenthese checkpoints and get around
the course.
So it's a mental puzzle as muchas it's a race.
And when I say race, um reallypeople you're competing against
yourself, and you're reallyabout kind of how much you're
pushing and enjoying yourself.
More than anything, you're justenjoying being outside.
(09:18):
Some people take it reallyseriously, some people just
really enjoy this as a way toget out and do a hike in the
woods.
SPEAKER_09 (09:24):
Yeah, so essentially it's a lot of map and compass
work, if I correct?
SPEAKER_07 (09:29):
Yeah, really focus on the map more than the
compass.
Some some people really getfascinated with this compass
because it's you know, it's it'sa cool little thing, but we
really tell people really learnhow to read a map.
And an orienteering map is areally specialized version of a
map, but it also helps just yourgeneral navigating after that.
(09:49):
So, you know, after getting intoorienteering, using a topo map
and say Algonquin Park as apiece of cake.
SPEAKER_09 (09:56):
Yeah, I know um a friend of mine, Doug, passed
away now, but Doug was in theNavy and they did the same
thing, uh map and compass workorienteering.
And one of the things that hesaid, you know, they took us out
and they gave us a map andcompass and they told us to go
ahead and do all this.
And he said the biggest lessonthat they learned at the entire
(10:16):
day was because they all gotlost.
And the reason they got lost wasbecause they were using a map
that was 50 years old.
And they didn't check their mapdates to find out that guess
what, all the logging trails orall those trails are all
overgrown now.
And so the first lesson, andevery time I talk about this, he
used to bring up the fact thatwhen he was in the Navy, that
(10:38):
was the number one lessonlearned.
Check the date of the map tomake sure it's updated, because
you could be dealing with someinformation that's well out of
date.
SPEAKER_07 (10:46):
Absolutely.
And it it's, you know, maps arekind of pieces of art.
And so a mapper is gonna decidewhat needs to go on there.
And then exactly as you said, interms of the date of the map,
because some things will change,you know, there may be new
buildings, those trails areovergrown, some deers are gonna
create some uh some tiny trailsthat aren't gonna be on the map.
Yep.
But you need to know, okay,what's not changing?
(11:08):
That big hillside is on the map,and then you can navigate by
that.
There may be a creek on the map.
Okay, I can navigate on that.
I've got my compass, so I knowwhich way is north and I can get
oriented.
And then even if you've got areally out-of-date map, you
probably have some informationthere that you can navigate
with.
SPEAKER_09 (11:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (11:26):
And then you've got to figure out okay, what can I
count on?
Okay, this trail is definitelyon the map.
This one is not.
Um, and how can I find the bestway from A to B?
SPEAKER_09 (11:36):
Okay.
So, Nevin, your position withOrienteering Ontario.
Um, you're the president.
How long have you been thepresident for?
SPEAKER_07 (11:44):
Uh a couple years now uh with Orienteering
Ontario, and I'm also activewith the Toronto Orienteering
Club.
Okay.
So Orienteering Ontario, theumbrella organization, there
we've got a bunch of clubs uhthroughout the province, and we
work with them to promote thesport.
SPEAKER_09 (12:00):
Okay, so roughly how many clubs and where how broad
are they?
Are they like in Thunder Bay andTimmins and Sault Ste.
SPEAKER_07 (12:05):
Marie or something or we're working on that.
We've got clubs in Ottawa,Toronto, the Hamilton area,
Perry Sound, and Collingwood,and a new club in uh the
Kingston area as well.
And uh we're looking at kind ofdeveloping some more.
The one in Ottawa is super,super active.
The one in Kingston is justgetting uh their feet
underground, and uh Hamilton inToronto is really active as
(12:28):
well.
SPEAKER_09 (12:28):
So orienteering, so then are these clubs all
competitive clubs or just peopleout uh to learn how to use a map
and compass and those kind ofthings?
SPEAKER_07 (12:38):
It's a bit tricky that line between competition
and you know, as I said, you'remost people are competing
against themselves.
Uh for orienteering in oursport, our events are are both
recreational and competitive.
So it as opposed to someone whosay is say really enjoys long
distance canoeing, it's easy forthem just to go out and do a
(13:01):
multiple hour canoe uh canoetrip and then they're out there
and doing it.
A lot of people do that, butvery few people do actual, say,
long distance canoe racing.
So at an event at Orienteering,you might find people who are
just going for a good hike andare checking out for just maybe
the second or third time, andthen you may actually have
(13:23):
people on the national team whoare taking it really seriously
and using this as a really hardworkout.
So both of them are at the sameevent.
SPEAKER_09 (13:30):
Okay, so uh there's a national team.
Does that mean there'sinternational events with this?
SPEAKER_07 (13:35):
Absolutely.
There's uh there's a worldchampionship, there's a national
team.
Uh this summer.
Um, sorry, um, orienteering isis in a series of events called
the World Games.
So that's kind of a step belowthe Olympics in terms of a lot
of sports that aren't at theOlympics.
Um, as we know, a lot about theOlympics is about what you can
(13:55):
watch on TV.
And historically, orienteeringis not a television-friendly
sport because people are offrunning around the woods by
themselves.
With GPS nowadays, it's actuallya lot more TV friendly and you
can watch the dots on the map.
But um, yes, there's a world,there's a the world champs,
there's uh world um world cups.
And uh way back in the 90s, inthe early 90s, there was
(14:18):
actually a World Cup hosted bythe Toronto Club in the
Ganaraska Forest, um just eastof uh east of Toronto.
SPEAKER_09 (14:25):
Right.
Now I know a friend of minewho's the best man at my
wedding, Bert.
Uh Bert uh spends well, he's hadover fifty years with the Air
Cadets, and one of the thingsthat he does is actually uh do
some orienteering in the Gany.
And they have a competitionthere, but it's some of the
rules for the Air Cadetcompetition might be different
from yours because his squad wasdisqualified because they didn't
(14:49):
have military boots on.
They actually had hiking bootson in order to run through to do
their runs through the throughthe bush.
Is there certain rules uh thatpeople need to abide by?
SPEAKER_07 (15:00):
Yeah, and actually, well, I'll get back to the
military aspect of it.
There the the big rule is, ofcourse, no GPS.
You gotta use your own smarts toget around the course.
Yep.
W with GPS, it's actually agreat tool in terms of tracking
to find out what you did outthere.
So that's the big thing in termsof you can't use it to navigate,
but you can use it to learn howto navigate better afterwards.
(15:24):
Um, your friend in the cadetsand that military aspect, this
is a great way for people uh inthe forces to really learn how
to be a leader out there.
I actually coached orienteeringin the Canadian forces for a few
summers, uh, coaching a militaryteam that was racing in a NATO
competition, and orienteeringwas one of the sports.
(15:45):
And afterwards, I remember onecaptain coming up and telling
me, you know, the pistolshooting, the rifle shooting is
really fun, but if I cannot getmy troops lost in the woods in
the swamps, they really respectme for that.
And it really teaches them agreat skill around them being a
leader in the forces.
SPEAKER_09 (16:02):
Yeah, Bert Bert was really praising the orienteering
maps.
The orientation maps that youutilize are somewhat different,
are they from uh from regularmaps, are they?
SPEAKER_07 (16:13):
Absolutely.
The big thing with them is thatthey're hyper-detailed.
So versus a topple map you'reusing out in the woods, which
will be one to twenty thousandor one to fifty, you only have
really big features and thingslike roads and that sort of
thing.
Really frustrating to navigatebecause uh it's just hard to
know what's going to show up onthe map.
The orienteering maps tend to beone to one to ten thousand, and
(16:37):
they've had an actual mapper outthere using LIDAR uh material
and then actually walkingthrough the train, making sure
that everything's actually onthe map.
And so there'll be things likestreams and smaller trails and
boulders and that sort of thing.
And then as you're navigating,you need to decide what is
useful.
(16:58):
So if it's a matter of runningdown the trail, look for a big
boulder, and then no, I have tolook for a valley to the right,
well, that boulder is going tobe on the map.
And as I said, the mapper, it'sa bit of an art.
They need to decide what goes onthe map if it's relevant or not.
SPEAKER_09 (17:15):
Right.
Yeah, and so where do you wheredoes one get these orienteering
maps from?
Where can you order them?
SPEAKER_07 (17:21):
Well, they're produced by the clubs.
So if you take a look atorienteeringOntario.ca, you can
uh find a club near them orcontact us with Orienteering
Ontario and we'll see in termsof what uh what's available and
of course uh what do you havepermission to go on?
Sometimes they're in these mapsor say conservation area or
(17:42):
parks, and it's easy for that.
But if it's a private land, uhthen permission, of course, is
really important.
SPEAKER_09 (17:48):
So, Nevin, what does somebody who's never been
involved in orienteering before,what do they need to do or to
have to get involved?
SPEAKER_07 (17:57):
Well, I think first of anything, a really a great
enjoyment of getting outdoorsand and uh a spirit of uh not
being worried if you get a bitlost.
So, say you go to a local event,um the clubs are super friendly.
There's usually a clinic to helpyou get going.
You need to dress for theoutdoors, be it if you're a
(18:18):
trail runner or if you're ahiker, then get ready for that.
Uh get ready to get your feetdirty.
Um, because you'll be goingright through the mud or off
trail through uh through thewoods as well.
So these events will have abeginner-friendly uh setup, and
the easier courses tend to be ontrails or on major handrails
(18:39):
like that to get you around.
And then the the more advancedcourses will be off the trail
through the woods, and youreally have to kind of know what
you're doing in terms of of howto navigate and use those maps.
But it's it's a pretty simplething to jump in, and then um
then it's a lot of trial anderror and just learning how to
go.
SPEAKER_09 (18:58):
Right.
So you mentioned about thesecourses, and I and I know uh I
spent uh I've I actually hikedabout uh several hundred miles
of the Bruce Trail.
How do you find these courses?
Uh uh are they listed at theclubs with uh Orienteering
Ontario or how?
SPEAKER_07 (19:16):
Yep, they are say there are specific events.
So a few of the clubs havepermanent courses out there that
you can go and check out, butoften they'll be or mostly
they're they're for the specificevents who'll uh who'll get them
set up.
And then yep, sorry, go ahead.
No, that's okay.
Go ahead.
And then how do you navigate?
That's one of the things that wealways tell people is um you can
(19:39):
navigate the speed of what youcan move.
So some people want to runreally fast and they can run
faster than they can think.
And other people just kind ofmosey along and they never make
a mistake and they go absolutelyuh absolutely accurate around
the course and they'll end upbeating the the other guys who
are running in the wrongdirection.
So it's you know, it's it's abit like we've we've had people
(20:03):
compare it to golf.
If someone is a big and strongperson, they can really hit the
ball, but they are probablysacrificing the accuracy.
And then there's other peoplewho can work on their skill and
they won't have the power andthe strength, but holy cow, are
they ever accurate.
So people have to pick um picktheir strengths around that.
SPEAKER_09 (20:24):
I recall when I was in scouts, did scouting, we had
uh competitions as well.
And what they used to do wouldbe they would give you the map,
you'd use your own compass, ofcourse, and they would give you
the instructions uh in there.
And when you got to a site, uhpoint turning point or uh a
point where you register, therewas actually like a triangle
(20:47):
there that they had um I thinkit was like different punches
inside it or numbers orconfigurations that you took or
stamps that you put on yourinformation to show that you
were actually at that site.
Do you understand?
Have you do you know is that thesame sort of thing that they do?
SPEAKER_07 (21:05):
No, we are using modern technology.
So there's a little transponder.
So as you go around, I shouldprobably should have mentioned
this, at an event, you're gonnabe issued this little
transponder that you carry.
And then when you get to whatthe checkpoints or controls,
what they're called, uh youbasically you punch or you just
put it, you put your transponderinto the little receiver, and
(21:26):
it's gonna beep and recognizethat you were there.
The reason that's important isthat there when you finish, you
then download the information ofyou going around the course.
That's not gonna have your GPSof where you went, but it is
gonna show that you went to thethe right checkpoints in the
right order.
So that's really important, andit's gonna have the time of
where you spent.
(21:47):
And so when you take a look atresults later, you can be like,
holy cow, one to three, I wasabsolutely flying.
And then from two to four, holycow, did I ever make mistakes?
But um, most of the events arepoint-to-point, you have to go
in a certain era, certain order.
Some of them you can make upyour own order to get around the
course, and then you've got tokind of pick your best route
(22:10):
from one checkpoint to another.
SPEAKER_05 (22:17):
Back in 2016, Frank and I had a vision to amass the
single largest database of muskyangling education material
anywhere in the world.
SPEAKER_04 (22:26):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.
SPEAKER_05 (22:33):
Thus, the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.
SPEAKER_04 (22:40):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.
SPEAKER_05 (22:53):
The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about
fishing, it's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport.
Through laughter, throughcamaraderie, and an unwavering
spirit of adventure, thispodcast will bring people
together.
Subscribe now and never miss amoment of our angling
adventures.
SPEAKER_04 (23:11):
Tight lines, everyone.
SPEAKER_05 (23:13):
Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever else you get yourpodcasts.
SPEAKER_09 (23:32):
Okay, we're with Bev here in Lindsay.
And Bev, you've got someexperience with Chaga that you'd
like to share with some people.
Tell us uh two stories.
Start with your father's story.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
Hi, Derry.
Um well, um my dad had mentionedto me that he was struggling
with his blood pressure and he'dgone on meds and it wasn't
bringing it down.
He was running around 180, 185,and wasn't enjoying that at all.
And um and so I suggested thathe try the chaga tea because I
knew some other people that hadhad good experience with it, and
(24:06):
I knew my own experience withit.
He started doing the chaga teaevery day.
Um he stuck it in with hiscoffee, so he only had to drink
one thing a day, and withinthree weeks he had dropped from
180 to 140, which he was reallyexcited about.
But what he was even moreexcited about was that about
three to four weeks after that,he had gone down to 125.
(24:27):
So we're really grateful for thedifference the chaga has made
with his blood pressure.
SPEAKER_09 (24:33):
There wasn't any other medications or changes,
this had the change?
SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
No, this was the actually the only shift.
He didn't shift anythingdiet-wise, physical
exercise-wise at all.
The only thing he added in thathe hadn't been doing before was
chaga.
SPEAKER_09 (24:45):
And he put it in his coffee, I believe.
I forgot.
And he put it in his coffee.
Very good.
Okay, and you have your ownstory now.
I have my own story.
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
So I I started on chaga when I um I met Jerry just
as I realized that I was goinginto a relapse of multiple
cirrhosis, that I I had notrelapsed for approximately 25
years, so I was a littlestartled about it and wanted to
get on it.
And um, so I was in the processof changing a lot of things so
(25:12):
that I could um go back intorelapse rather than dealing with
the MS symptoms.
And so I did change diet and Istopped physical exercise so
that my body would have morerest and I added the chakra in.
And within within a I meanwithin five days, I noticed that
the nerve sensory issues I washaving in my legs was already
(25:35):
settling down, and within aboutthree weeks I had the strength
to walk unassisted again.
And I am about three months innow, and um I have um taken a
10-day break from it a couple oftimes just to, you know, you
know, just so that my body, youknow, can stay balanced, you
(25:57):
know, without it.
But every time I go back on it,I um I can feel the difference
in mental clarity and in the waymy nerves are communicating, and
I'm I'm walking very, very wellnow.
SPEAKER_09 (26:10):
Very good.
Well, thank you very much forsharing your story with us.
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
No, thanks for thanks for hollering me and
asking me to try a free cup thatone farmer's market morning.
SPEAKER_09 (26:19):
Well, I'm glad it's working out for you.
Thanks, Jerry.
Okay.
We interrupt this program tobring you a special offer from
Chaga Health and Wellness.
If you've listened this far andyou're still wondering about
this strange mushroom that Ikeep talking about, and whether
(26:42):
you would benefit from it ornot, I may have something of
interest to you.
To thank you for listening tothe show, I'm going to make
trying Chaga that much easier.
By giving you a dollar off allour Chaga products at checkout.
All you have to do is head overto our website, Chaga Health and
Wellness.com, place a few itemsin the cart, and check out with
(27:04):
the code CANopy.
C-A-N-O-P-Y.
If you're new to Chaga, I'dhighly recommend the regular
Chaga tea.
This comes with 15 tea bags perpackage, and each bag gives you
around five or six cups of tea.
Hey, thanks for listening.
Back to the episode.
(27:24):
Now, uh and I had friends thatactually they um they would do
walking tours in England andScotland.
And so what they did was uh theywould get their information and
then they walk would basicallywalk from town to town over
lands and and through fields andthings like that.
(27:44):
Is there similar, you know, andin the same with bike riders, I
know quite a few bike ridersthat actually will go to Italy
to ride their bikes or throughthe Swiss uh the Alps and those
sort of things.
Is it similar for orienteeringthat that they have different
courses or competitions aroundthat people go to?
SPEAKER_07 (28:00):
Yeah, there's there's competitions um and
events all all over, especiallyin Europe.
Orienteering is originally aScandinavian sport.
It started in Sweden after WorldWar II as a way to train the
army, and that's one of thereasons we've got a lot of rules
because they like a lot of rulesin the army.
Um and then it came to Canada inthe 60s and 70s through European
(28:22):
immigrants.
And so orienteering is probablybiggest in Sweden.
If you remember those oldparticipaction commercials
saying the average 60-year-oldSwede is fitter than the
30-year-old Canadian, well,orienteering was part of that
kind of promotion of outdoorfitness that we saw in Canada.
So Scandinavia is where thissport is probably at the
(28:43):
biggest, and then uh other partsof Europe, uh, they have big
events as well.
And it's really fascinating.
I've I've done this all overCanada and and in um in the US
and a bit in Europe, and it'sreally interesting to be, say,
in Interior BC and how differentthe woods are than, say,
Gatineau Park.
(29:04):
And as you're going through,it's you know, it's interesting
all the rock features thatyou've got to navigate with,
looking for cliffs and boulders,versus out there, it's kind of a
mixture of this open plain andgrasslands and uh and really big
hills at times.
So as you do this sport, youreally learn how to navigate and
be able to navigate withdifferent um different types of
(29:26):
terrain as well.
SPEAKER_09 (29:27):
Now I recall about a year ago watching a movie that I
would think would be very muchorienteering.
It was kind of a uh a race inone of the Caribbean countries
or in Central America, wherethey did a lot of training for,
and then there was cross countrysort of thing.
Is is that was that promotingorienteering, or is that was
(29:48):
that an orient do you know whatI'm talking about?
SPEAKER_07 (29:50):
I know exactly what you're talking about, and uh I'm
trying it is called uh Arthurthe King, that movie about uh
about adventure.
Racing.
Right.
And adventure racing ormulti-sport racing is really a
big beefed up version oforienteering.
Yeah.
And if you remember a few yearsago, there were events called
(30:11):
the Eco Challenge.
And again, these are just reallybig versions of the same sport
because they're navigating thoseraces, the like the that Arthur
the King movie, they're using,you know, mountain biking and
paddling in addition totrekking, but they're really
also still trying to navigateand getting from A to B.
(30:32):
So Orienteering is a great kindof starter for that.
Um, and then advancing into thatadventure racing.
Um and they actually had theNorth American Championships of
that this summer in uh Par inSudbury area.
Uh Orienteering Ontario is oneof the sponsors of that, and uh
was really fascinating to seehow those races did.
(30:55):
Now, those races are are, as Isaid, a lot bigger and longer,
sometimes over multiple days.
Um, but the core of that, how toget from A to B through the
woods is still the same.
SPEAKER_09 (31:07):
So Orienteering is basically just on land, and it
doesn't include any traversingacross waterways and things like
that as well?
SPEAKER_07 (31:14):
It really depends.
I know in uh in Ottawa theywould have a canoe orienteering
event uh in Gatneau Park, goinguh uh in some of the lakes there
with a whole bunch of islands.
And it's interesting, like whenI uh will go on a canamp on
canoe camping in Algonquin Parkand navigating with the map, and
it's a really different featureto be able to navigate from the
(31:37):
boat um versus in the land.
You're using the same skills,but as a navigator, you've got
to think about okay, what can Isee?
What kind of speed am I goingat, and how can I recognize
that?
SPEAKER_09 (31:49):
Uh-huh.
Now, is orienteering basically auh just a seasonal sport, or is
it something that's done allyear?
SPEAKER_07 (31:56):
It's it's kind of done all year, depending on the
weather.
Um again, if you don't mindgetting your feet wet and a bit
chilly, uh, then this takesplace.
In Southern Ontario, we have anthe Ontario Cup, which is a
series of very casual events uhin and around Hamilton, Toronto,
Southern Ontario.
And I know in uh the Ottawa areathey have events throughout the
(32:18):
winter as well.
SPEAKER_09 (32:19):
Yeah, I know.
So you mentioned that boulder onon some of the maps that are
listed on the Ontario maps,where all of a sudden in the
wintertime, how much howaccurate can those maps be then
if they're snow-covered bouldersand and the streams are covered
over and things like that?
SPEAKER_07 (32:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
And a good event director isgonna take that into account.
And they're gonna look and say,okay, um, they're mostly gonna
be on trails.
Let's keep the courses focusedon that.
Um and uh knowing what thecompetitor you want to keep it
fair for everyone.
So again, the event directorswill take this into account uh
(32:54):
in how they put their coursetogether.
SPEAKER_09 (32:57):
Yeah, I recall uh I was up with my uncle, and uh we
were at uh staying at my aunt'shusband's trap camp, and we were
quite a ways into the bush, andand I had uh I I always carried
map and compass with myself.
That was long before GPS was uhunits were available.
(33:20):
Anyways, I I recall I said uh tomy uncle, we were out uh down a
trail.
I said, look, I'm gonna I'mgonna I'm gonna map and compass
across here and I'll pick upthis road here about a mile
away.
And he was like what did yousay?
He because he used to work um itwas uh it was rescue.
(33:41):
He used to do uh remote wildnessrescue where he would do they
would send him in and he said,Really?
He says none of the guys I knowwould be able to do.
I said, Yeah, I'm just gonna goacross.
It's only around that small lakethere, and then I'll catch back
up here, and then I'll I'll meetyou back over there.
You can just take these uh theseskitter trails where I'm going
cross country, and he was quiteshocked.
So, Devin, where else can peopleutilize a lot of this um
(34:04):
orienteering uh expertise?
SPEAKER_07 (34:06):
Well, you just described a great example of
this in terms of knowing whatyou described in terms of I'm
just gonna take the compassacross the woods and hit
something.
In orienteering, we call thatrough compass because you know
you're gonna come out at theroad or at the lake on the other
side.
It doesn't matter that you'renot perfectly accurate because
you're gonna be able to relocatewhen you come out the other
(34:28):
side.
Um, and some people will say,hey, that's the best way to
navigate.
I'm just gonna go through thewoods and keep straight.
Your friend there who was takingthe little trails and doing it
like that, he's sticking totrails.
Depending on the speed of hisnavigating, he might beat you
there or you may beat him.
Um, in terms of where the eventsare, as I said, checking out
(34:49):
orienteeringOntario.ca, we'llhave a whole bunch of uh
listings there of what theevents are, and you can always
people can always just contactus directly and happy to reach
out.
I wanted to flag a coupleprograms, just if you'd let me.
Sure.
Uh one is uh a really great kidsprogram that's out of uh the the
(35:10):
the club called Don't Get Lostin the Hamilton area.
It's called the AdventureRunning Kids Program.
So it's been going about 15years.
It's a bit like Timbit's hockeyor soccer, oh yeah, in that is
for young kids, and it is not acompetition.
It is about getting the kidsoutdoors and enjoying getting
muddy and getting a sense ofadventure.
(35:32):
So they do a lot of games.
Like, say there'll be a there'llbe a drill on working on
balance.
Well, they're gonna get in thewoods and find a tree log and
say, okay, this game, we'regonna do a little relay of
running over the rock, the log,and really working on kids'
balances.
And it, you know, some of thesekids will go in and become
competitive runners or maybe anorienteer, but more than
(35:53):
anything, they're just gonnaenjoy getting out in the woods
and enjoying that.
So that's how old are we how oldwould these kids be?
I think it's like eight totwelve.
Okay.
Very good.
So that's that's a really greatprogram.
And then one other event alsonear Hamilton is called Raid the
Hammer.
So it's in late October, it's inteams of three, and it's about a
half marathon distance, and itreally shows off the awesome
(36:16):
terrain around the NiagaraEscarpment, and it's one of my
favorite events to do everyyear.
SPEAKER_09 (36:21):
Yeah, I know one of the with my own sons, Josh and
Garrett, uh, we always spendtime in the bush, and I always
show them and I always make surethey have a compass with them so
they can go.
But so many people are afraid ofthe bush.
And they're afraid to go in.
And I've met so many people thatso long as they can see the road
or that trail or things likethat, they're fine.
(36:42):
But you get them off, they justkind of panic.
And with a lot of it, I thinkit's just like a pilot.
One of the first things theythey train pilots is to believe
your instruments.
Because I know when I firststarted, I'm looking at my
compass.
No, that's wrong.
It's got to be wrong.
No, your compass isn't wrong.
You're turned around a bit.
And you don't really get lost alot of times.
We never get lost, we just getturned around a bit, right?
(37:05):
100%.
SPEAKER_07 (37:06):
People ask, oh, do you ever get lost?
And I say, all the time.
Yep.
But it's a matter of like, do Iknow exactly where I am on the
hillside?
No.
Yeah.
But I know if I go down to thebottom of the hillside, there's
a creek there, and then I'll beable to figure out where I am.
Or if I go to the top of thehill all the way up there, I'm
gonna know where I am.
(37:26):
So I I kind of use the map, andexactly as you say, so often
I'll say, No, the compass is Iam right, the compass is wrong.
Well, guess who turns out to beright in the end of the day?
Exactly.
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_09 (37:40):
Yeah, and so so we mentioned so what equipment
would a newbie coming into thesport need, like the hiking
boots and what kind of uh ummaps that they need, a compass,
and what other sort of things?
SPEAKER_07 (37:52):
Again, through the club uh showing up, they'll be
able to rent you a compass.
If you've seen the big rangercompasses with the mirrors and
that sort of thing, that isoverkill.
And so the compass that I use iscalled a thumb compass, so it's
really just the compass thatwill go in the hand that I'm
holding the map.
(38:13):
And as I said, we we use thecompass as a tool, and you're
really about using the map.
Yeah.
Um, we have some people who are,you know, they're almost a slave
to their compass.
And they say, okay, well, if Igo one kilometer following the
compass, I'm gonna hit this.
(38:34):
Well, that's one way to do it,but if you look on the map and
say, well, that way was gonnatake me through a giant swamp,
versus if I read the map, I knowthere's a trail over there and
I'll go around the swamp andwe'll be a lot easier.
That's why we tell people, youknow, really work on learning
the map and using it.
SPEAKER_09 (38:53):
Right.
Right.
Now that ranger compass that youwere talking about as well with
the mirror, I know I I probablyhave a couple of those, but they
they don't really get out.
They're kind of backups that Ihave that people gave me or
that, but and I never really usethem.
But I have when I was in Scouts,I was uh one of the only seven
in actually in the world, but inCanada I was uh uh my
(39:15):
scoutmaster actually presentedus um John John Henry Bickle and
myself with uh Silva Compassthat we still use to this day,
and we received that from thembecause uh we achieved our Chief
and Queen Scout Awards uh inCanada.
And we were the only there'sonly seven of us in the world,
but uh uh it was one somethingthat I still have to this day
and use on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_07 (39:37):
Yeah, that's excellent.
As you say, um, you know, Istill my compass is a bunch of
years old.
Though they don't uh they're notgonna wear out.
You don't want to step on themor break them or anything like
that.
But uh in terms of a new anewbie coming out, um the clubs
will have uh compass for you toborrow to get out there.
(39:58):
And the courses, the theintroductory courses, there's
very little compass work.
It's much more on kind oflearning the map.
And uh there's usually aboutfour courses.
So for someone's first day out,the first course is could be
hopefully pretty easy for them,and then they can try out a
little more challenging oneafter that.
SPEAKER_09 (40:18):
Now, Nevin, as well, some of I gotta be honest,
though they they used to haveall kinds of different
compasses, and there was thosepin-on ones that you'd put on
that pin on, and they actuallydidn't work where the darn I
thought they were terriblebecause if you didn't hold it
just right, it's stuck and thenand then the because it's in a
round ball and it kind of pinson your jacket.
So I I always have mine uhactually right along my belt so
(40:42):
it's it's tied into my belt loopso I'm going through the bush I
don't lose it.
And those are just some of thethings that I recall.
But what other sort of stuffdoes somebody need?
So you mentioned the compass,but what about clothing and and
other things?
Well, how about tick repellent?
You need that.
SPEAKER_07 (40:57):
Yeah, that's becoming more and more of a
challenge.
There's there's something youknow we really have to watch out
for in terms of getting out ofthe woods.
Uh I've been really lucky thatI've I've barely ever had ticks,
but it's something that wereally encourage people to watch
out for.
So how you dress, again, uhfootwear.
Uh footwear is always important,um, but it should be the same
(41:19):
shoes.
Again, if you're a trail runneror if you're a hiker, whatever's
gonna give you stability in thewoods.
And then you're gonna dress umhow you see fit in the being
outdoors.
Some people show up with bigbackpacks with a lunch and all
that, and say, look, you're onlygonna be out there for about an
hour, leave that in the car.
Um, and you don't want to becarrying that around.
(41:42):
So uh footwear is reallyimportant.
And then if you're in one of thecourses that's off trail, that's
gonna depend on how thick thewoods are in terms of how you're
gonna do.
SPEAKER_09 (41:51):
Yeah, it's it's interesting.
Um, some of those ones who whenI was I was doing some work at
Fort Severn, not Port Severn,but Fort Severn where uh
Manitoba, Ontario, and Hudson'sBay come together.
It's a northernmost community.
And I was actually with a uhCanadian ranger who did training
for the the Rangers in uh thefar north.
(42:12):
It was interesting.
He said, uh now I asked, he justasked basic questions about uh,
well, where would you set upyour uh your your camp here?
And he says, the last group thatI had, and I showed him and he
said, Yeah, that's where itshould be.
And he said, the last group Ihad, they set up here.
But it was at low tide, and theydidn't realize.
And when the tide came up, theyall of a sudden had to scramble
(42:34):
and move their camp because itwas now underwater.
But one of the things that hehad was, of course, he had his
compass and his mapsinformation, but he also had a
basic supply uh emergency kitwhich included tea and some uh
communication devices and thingslike that.
What other sort of safetydevices do you recommend for
people who are going into thebush and trying it on their own?
SPEAKER_07 (42:57):
Uh and I don't I want to come back to being uh
under underwater and tell youabout a really special map out
east.
But uh one of the safetyfeatures is just in events in
Canada, uh you have to carry awhistle.
And that is just one of thesesafety things that if you sprain
an ankle or do something worse,uh then three blasts on the
whistle is going to indicatethat you are uh it's you're in
(43:22):
an emergency out there.
Um for that for those longerevents, like those adventure
challengers or venture racersand multi-day one, they have
really specific gear lists thatthey have to carry, exactly that
kind of emergency uh setup.
For the raid the hammer, we havea uh there's a minimum amount of
water that you have to carry,because those are say uh a long
(43:44):
uh half half marathon distances.
Um so it'll be something like anemergency blanket, X amount of
water, uh, and maybe a safetykit, but those are for really
specific events.
Um for most of the small ones,it's the whistle is the most
important ones, and that's justfor really emergencies out
there.
Um it's incredible how fewpeople get injured doing this
(44:08):
sport.
Uh the number one, probably thetwo uh major injuries that
people get are blisters fromtheir shoes not fitting right,
uh, and then the odds sprainedankle.
And that's about it that we thatwe trish traditionally see.
SPEAKER_09 (44:24):
Right.
And well, and the other thingwas um some of the other things
we always had uh the first thingwe always had in our pack when
we were packing was uh rain gearto make sure it was uh on top
and it was the first thing youwere able to access.
So it but in orienteering,basically there's no rock
climbing and things like that?
SPEAKER_07 (44:43):
Not really rock.
You have to get from A to B.
And so say there's a reallydangerous cliff or a really
steep cliff on it, the eventorganizer is gonna be smart
enough not to send people overthat.
They they're gonna say around.
And if you find yourself out inthe woods climbing down a steep
cliff, you are probably notsupposed to be do that.
(45:06):
And uh it's kind of your faultfor thinking that's gonna be the
best route.
Um no, and uh in terms of rain,this is a all season sport.
So rain is notoriously makesnavigation uh extra tricky.
Both my parents, who I grew updoing this for my parents, both
of them needed reading glasses.
(45:28):
You can imagine what rain doesto that.
Um so as we plan our courses,um, one of the things, you know,
it's an outdoor sport in thenature.
Uh if it's raining, we'll oftenfind that the times will be a
lot slower because it's justtrickier to navigate when things
are like that.
SPEAKER_09 (45:47):
Right.
Right.
Now you mentioned about thewhistle and three blasts.
We were always taught that um itwas uh a blast, one one
thousand, two one thousand,three one thousand, a blast, one
one thousand, two one thousand,three one thousand, another
blast.
Is what uh we we were alwaystaught uh in ka in scouting is
(46:08):
just to make sure there wasconsistency.
So people heard that.
And I don't know if it's thesame or the that's sort of
saying that they have now ornot.
SPEAKER_07 (46:16):
Yeah, it's it's it's similar.
And um, you know, it's it'speople have pretty good spirits.
And actually in Europe a fewyears ago, uh at the World
Championships, and during therelay race, which a lot of the
countries take super this is thethe most competitive race, there
was a pack of three of the topcountries who were running, and
(46:39):
one of the guys got a uh I thinkit was a really nasty cut um
through some s some sharpbranches.
Uh, and two of the other leadingcompetitors saw him, and they
both stopped and and helped him.
And the three of them got out ofthe woods, uh kind of gave up
the race, but that was thespirit of um of the competitors
(47:01):
out there in terms of everyonecomes back, and you know,
there's more more importantthings uh than the actual race.
Um I it's been I don't think Ihave blown my whistle because of
uh either being super super lostor hurt since I was about 10
years old.
Um usually if you get saycompletely turned around and
(47:23):
completely lost and you'll findanother competitor and you look
and you need help, someone'sgonna help you out out there.
Uh and as I said, the whistle isonly for if you're really,
really injured.
SPEAKER_09 (47:36):
Right.
Now and the other thing I Ithink is is people need to just
remain the biggest they if theykeep calm.
SPEAKER_07 (47:42):
When people start to panic, absolutely, absolutely is
where they get into trouble.
SPEAKER_09 (47:47):
And I always and I and I know I've looked for some
done some search and rescue forsome people, and I said, let's
go this way, and they said, Whyare we going that way?
And I said, Well, when peoplestart to panic, they take the
path of least resistance.
And if you look through here,they can go straight through
here, and lo and lo and behold,every single time you pick up
tracks and and people becausethey they start to panic and
(48:10):
they start doing things, and ifthey start running or going the
wrong ways, they take the pathof I've always found they've
taken the path of leastresistance.
And we have always picked uptracks and be able to find
people that way.
So keeping calm is veryimportant as to so when you
start to panic is when peoplehave problems.
SPEAKER_07 (48:27):
You absolutely nailed it.
And my coach growing up wouldtalk about take some seconds to
save some minutes.
Yep.
And you know, orienteeringagain, you can't really do it if
you're stressed and mentallystressed, and you need to stay
calm.
So if you say made a mistakeearly in the race, you'll see
(48:48):
people pushing extra hard andtrying to take chances.
And if you're worried about thator thinking about that, you're
gonna make more mistakes outthere.
And as you say, staying calm outthere, say, okay, I don't know
exactly where I am, but let'sall uh, you know, if you're out
there camping or hiking andyou're saying, okay, I think
we're I think we're on adifferent trail, or this doesn't
(49:09):
make sense, let's just calmdown, let's make sure we can
relocate exactly where we are.
Maybe we're gonna go out to alake and say, okay, we're
exactly at this point because Ican see this little island, and
you take you stay calm, um, andyou take some time to relocate
and figure out where you are,that's super, super important.
SPEAKER_09 (49:30):
Right.
Now, Nevin, you mentioned aboutuh you had a story about the I
think it was East Coast and thetide.
SPEAKER_07 (49:36):
Absolutely.
And since I'm uh calling in herefrom Atlantic Canada, there's
actually, if you've heard of umthe Bay of Fundy and the um, I
think it's it's the flower potuh islands out there with the
really high tides, there'sactually an orienteering map
that's under the the ocean floorthere.
Oh, really?
And so they've had somecompetitions when that's at low
(49:59):
tide and have navigated have putyou know the big boulders on the
map, and this is what the trainlooks like when the tide is out.
And you know, those events areexactly from this time until
that time.
Uh and you better be off the mapbecause the tide's coming in
after that.
So it's it's one of the moreinteresting maps in the country
here.
SPEAKER_09 (50:18):
Right.
Yeah, okay.
Nevin, how do people find outmore information or how do they
get in touch with you and findout more details about your
organization or or yourself?
SPEAKER_07 (50:28):
Absolutely.
Please uh take a look at uhorienteeringontario.ca.
You're welcome to send us aquick email if you'd like to
find out.
We list uh the clubs there andwe're happy to put you in touch,
or you can reach out to theclubs uh that may be near you.
Or if you and uh say some ofyour friends are looking to get
uh if you're in an area thatthere's not an event, then we
(50:52):
would love to uh chat with youto see if we can have some
resources to help uh get thingsgoing there as well.
SPEAKER_09 (50:58):
Well, thank you very much, Nevin French, the
president of the OrienteeringOntario, for taking the time to
inform us about in Orienteeringand all the uh the great
opportunities to be out thereand enjoy just another way to
enjoy things out there under thecanopy.
Thanks very much, Nevin.
SPEAKER_07 (51:14):
Thank you so much for going on.
I'd love to see you in the woodsand uh your listeners out there
as well.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (51:58):
But this podcast will be more than that.
Every week on Diaries of a LodgeOwner, I'm going to introduce
you to a ton of great people.
Share their stories of ourtrials, tribulations, and
inspirations.
Learn and have plenty of laughsalong the way.
SPEAKER_02 (52:14):
Meanwhile, we're sitting there bobbing along
trying to figure out how tocatch a bass.
And we both decided one day wewere going to be on television
doing a fishing job.
SPEAKER_11 (52:24):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in thesummertime, but that's might be
more efficient than it waspunchy.
You so confidently you said, HeyPat, have you ever eaten a
drink?
SPEAKER_03 (52:36):
Find diaries of a lodge owner now on Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever youget your podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.