Episode 115: Herbs, Chaga, and Life Under the Canopy

What if your next good night’s sleep, calmer joints, or steadier digestion starts with a mug and a handful of leaves? We dive under the canopy with herbalist Penelope of The Ginkgo Tree to turn everyday plants into practical tools—no mystique, just methods you can trust. Jerry kicks things off by tackling the most common chaga questions—how to brew it in drip coffee, what grind to use, and why harvest timing matters—before we expand into a wider, grounded guide to home herbalism you can start this week.

Penelope shares how to identify and harvest safely, when to take roots versus leaves and flowers, and how to dry or tincture without ruining your hard work. We explore simple, high-impact teas: chamomile for sleep, nettle for nutrition and inflammation, ginger and peppermint for digestion, echinacea and elderberry syrup for immune support. You’ll learn why turmeric needs fat (and often pepper) to actually work, how chicory and roasted dandelion support the liver and gut, and why variety—dozens of plants over a month—feeds resilience in a way single-ingredient routines can’t.

We also step into the kitchen and the field. Sumac moves from trail-side shrub to za’atar spice and lemonade, paired with clear safety tips to avoid poison look-alikes. A quick guide to poultices, a DIY dandelion oil you can make on a windowsill, and straightforward drying and storage methods bring the craft home. Along the way, we talk plant ethics—cultivating at-risk species like golden seal, leaning on reputable growers, and using field guides and mentors to build confidence. Expect practical detours too: a chaga-and-green-tea blood pressure testimonial, black garlic’s sweet surprise, and a comfrey trick for a dog’s hot spots that might save your vet bill.

If you’ve been curious about herbal medicine but unsure where to start, this is your map: clear steps, real-world recipes, and a mindset that values safety, observation, and respect for the land.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_11 (00:02):
How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to
build one of Canada's mosticonic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, Steve Nitzwicki,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
newest podcast, Diaries of aLodge Owner.
But this podcast will be morethan that.

(00:22):
Every week on Diaries of a LodgeOwner, I'm going to introduce
you to a ton of great people.
Share their stories of ourtrials, tribulations, and
inspirations.
Learn and have plenty of laughsalong the way.

SPEAKER_09 (00:36):
Meanwhile, we're sitting there bobbing along
trying to figure out how tocatch a bass.
And we both decided one day wewere going to be on television
doing a fishing show.

SPEAKER_03 (00:46):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in thesummertime, but that might be
more efficient than it waspunching.

SPEAKER_11 (00:53):
You so confidently you said, hey Pat, have you ever
eaten a drunk?
Find diaries of a lodge ownernow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get yourpodcast.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Oulette, and I washonored to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(01:35):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced to thebirch-hungry fungus known as
Chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest, use, testimonials, and

(01:57):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession.
And I now spend my lifededicated to improving the lives
of others through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of the strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.

(02:18):
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Underthe Canopy Podcast, I'm going to
take you along with me to seethe places, meet the people that
will help you find your outdoorpassion and help you live a life
close to nature and under thecanopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode, and hopefully, we

(02:38):
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
As always, we want to thank allour listeners and those all
across Canada, the States, allaround the world, you know,
Switzerland, Ghana.

(02:59):
You know, Dr.
Nick keeps talking about thehospital he's building in Ghana.
We're really appreciative toknow.
Dr.
Nick was uh his he had uh a uhuh a health food store that uh
uh where I first connected withhim, and he's certainly doing uh
great jobs all around the worldand all our friends down in the
Bahamas and Trinidad, Tobago, etcetera, et cetera.

(03:22):
Now, I had a question fromWilliam uh regarding the last
second last podcast, I guess itwas.
And uh William was asking abouthow he uses the Chaga with a
drip coffee filter.
Because I was explaining topeople with it that what you can
do is you can get your chagainside your coffee and you don't

(03:43):
even notice it.
The chag is alkaline, coffee isacidic, so it neutralizes a lot
of the acid in the coffee.
And he asked about a dripfilter.
Was it better for the grinds orthe powder?
And the larger the pieces are,the longer they have to be
exposed to water to extract thebenefit, and grinds are about
the size of a peppercorn.
Now, if you have a paper filter,I usually advise to use the

(04:05):
powder because the powder hasthe largest bearing surface and
requires the least amount oftime in order to be exposed to
water to extract the benefits ofthe chaga.
Whereas the grinds, if you havea mesh strip filter, are better
because the powder will gothrough and clog up your mesh,

(04:26):
your metal mesh filter, whereasthe grinds will not.
So you're better off using thegrinds.
And realistically, uh you'relooking at about with the
powder, only about you only needabout realistically about uh a
quarter teaspoon of chaga percup of coffee that you're making
in order to get the benefits init.
Now, tried something, saw it onFacebook, thought I'd give it a

(04:49):
whirl, and it worked.
It's gonna be everybody knows uhmy chocolate lab, uh Anson
Gunner, and how he loves to gethis teeth brushed.
I was with uh last Thursday.
Where was I?
No, that was uh on the weekend.
Uh no, it was Thursday.
I dropped by and was deliveringuh some product to Bev, and I

(05:10):
said, Oh, I gotta get back.
My uh my dog's in the truck, andshe says, Oh, is that the one
who likes to get his teethbrushed?
I said, Yep.
He likes to get his teethbrushed, but he hates his nails
getting done.
So saw it on Facebook, thoughtI'd give it a whirl, and it
worked.
What I did was I wrapped my headin cellophane wrap.

(05:32):
Actually, I got my wife Diane towrap my head around, and then
put peanut butter all over thecellophane wrap and let him lick
the peanut butter while Itrimmed his nails, and it
worked.
I couldn't believe it.
It was just unbelievable until Iran out of peanut butter so hard
and Diane wasn't monitoring howmuch peanut butter was left.
But then after he was done thepeanut butter, boy, did he not

(05:55):
like that.
But I got the two uh front pawsdone without any ifs, ands, or
buts, no problem at all.
He just licked away while I wastrimming nails, and it worked
wonderful.
Now, one of the other thingsthat I'm getting a few questions
about is the time of year toharvest Chaga.
And as I've mentioned in thepast, I've got over a thousand

(06:15):
studies worldwide on Chaga.
And not one of those studiesthat I've read, and I've read
over a thousand, so all the onesI get, I read them all.
Uh most of the time I read theabstract, the discussion, and
the conclusion.
Anyways, um I've never seen anytime of year where it was
specifically harvested.
Not only that, but every one ofthe powwows that we've attended,

(06:39):
and not one, but every singleone, all the medicine people,
the shaman, they harvest alltheir chaga all year long.
Now, our chaga we harvest whenthe sap is out of the tree.
And a couple of days ago I hadsomebody that uh tells me, oh
yeah, you you not you can'tharvest the chaga until after
the first frost.
And they said, well, there'snothing that verifies that.

(07:02):
I mean, Health Canada cautionsfor chaga are only for pregnant
and breastfeeding females, andmind you, my research is a
little bit more in depth thanthat.
And I've tried to convince totalk to Health Canada about some
of the research, but theyweren't Canadian studies.
These ones were in the U.S., sothey basically disqualified any
of those ones about regardingChaga, but those are only
cautions by Health Canada.

(07:24):
And so I tried to explain, Isaid, you know, our Chaga, we
harvest, uh quite frankly, uh,once the sap is out of the tree,
usually end of uh October iswhen we'll start.
So yeah, most of the time you'llhave a frost by then, but we
don't gauge that in any way,shape, or form.
To be perfectly honest, once thesap's out of the trees, the the
leaves fall off, and you can seethe chaga a lot better.

(07:46):
And not only that, but the themoisture content is
substantially reduced becausethe sap's not flowing through
the chaga.
So your chance of secondary moldbuildup uh and development is
extremely reduced with uh lowermoisture content.
Now that was the one that had tobe after the first frost, and
then another one, um, quitefrankly, on the same day, asked

(08:07):
me and says, Well, I heard thatthe only time you can harvest
chaga is when the maple sap isrunning.
And to be perfectly honest, Isee a lot of rumor, a lot of
innuendo, and until I see youknow something, something
concrete that says that there'sreasons why this shouldn't
happen, then I go with all theinformation that I've done.

(08:27):
But as I said, we still harvestours uh usually uh later on in
October, starting then, once thesap's out and the leaves are
off.
Now, we had a guest on quite awhile ago.
We've been around now for, well,a couple of years now, two and a
half years, and it's been goingvery well.
I thanked all the listeners andall the questions come in.

(08:49):
And it's that time of year whereI'm out harvesting and I see
quite a bit of birch polyporeout on the trees, which is
another great medicinalmushroom.
And had that one my collegist, Ithink it was that one was from
the UAT, who came on, who talkedabout using the birch polypore.
Uh and what he'd do and he'd dryit and power powder it up, and
every time he cut himselfshaving, he'd put that on and it

(09:11):
would stop the uh the bleedingright away.
But uh there's a lot ofdifferent uh mushrooms out this
time of the year, and there's alot of different other things
that happen out there under thecanopy.
And I'm happy to bring back aguest we haven't before,
Penelope of the Ginkgo Tree.
Welcome uh to the podcast,Penelope.

SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
Hey, thanks for having me back.
This is great.
Uh, can I just quickly, and Iknow you're gonna do an
introduction, but I just want tosay one thing about your
harvesting is that I totallyconcur with you.
I, you know, we have um beentraditionally harvesting
November to March because we,you know, when the birch sap is

(09:51):
dormant and that the watercontent is lower and its
medicinal compounds seem to bemore concentrated.
So uh no scientific proof have Iseen of that, but that just
seems to be the the time to doit.
So I think uh that's reallygreat to, you know, when minds
are thinking aligned.

SPEAKER_07 (10:09):
Yeah, it's it's it's well, uh and I see so many
things, especially on YouTube.
There's so much stuff.
I saw one posting where this wasum uh one guy says, he says, Oh,
and uh Chaga only goes on birchtrees.
So if you see it, what lookslike Chaga on another tree is
not Chag.
I said, Well, this guy doesn'tknow what he's talking about,
because there are a number ofother trees that it grows on.

(10:29):
We found it on hophorn bean.
I've had that mycologist who'suh from the East Coast
University out there that'sdoing quite a bit of research on
it.
We're sending samples as we aswe can out to him from other
trees that uh Chag is growingon.
But uh yeah, there's a lot ofthings that need to be verified,
and that's some of the stuffthat's that's hard to get.
And hey, Penelope, that's why wehave uh you on board because

(10:52):
you're a herbalist, right?

SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Yes.
And the more I know, the more Irealize I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 (10:57):
Exactly.
So tell us a bit about uhyourself and and give us some of
your background and and tell us,you know, what it takes to be a
herbalist.

SPEAKER_00 (11:05):
Okay, great.
Um, well, I have been aregistered herbalist with the
Ontario Herbalist Associationfor uh, well, I've been a
herbalist now for 35 plus years,working with herbal medicine and
stewardshipping some land.
Uh, founder, of course, of theGinkgo Tree, as you mentioned.
Uh, we offer a beginner herbalcourse, an apprenticeship

(11:25):
program.
Um we also are the founder andorganizer of the Ontario uh herb
gathering called Back to YourRoots Herb Gathering.
And we've had some amazingkeynotes such as Rosemary
Gladstar's been here, DavidWinston, Seven Song, Jan
Longboat, uh, just lots ofamazing uh speakers in the

(11:47):
herbal world.
And we also uh these kind ofthings can't be done without
sponsors.
So we're always so thankful topeople like, you know, St.
Francis or Richter's Richter'sHerbs or Georgina Island, um,
the OHA for supporting uh thisevent so that we can share
herbal medicine with ourcommunity.

(12:09):
Um I also are the farm where welive is a recognized um
botanical sanctuary by UnitedPlant Savers.
Uh and so we had a lovely namingceremony uh a few years back
with our um friends, uh myfriend Lori from the Chippewas
of Georgina, and she gifted,well, spirit gifted the name

(12:31):
Kinnegego Botanical Sanctuary.
So uh we're super pleased withthat.
And on the land, we've plantedover 11,000 trees now to date.
We plant a lot of at-risk andendangered native plants.
We've allowed uh 40 acres at theback of the farm to rewild.

(12:51):
It really is my heart's work,the work on the land on the
farm, you know, and that umsaying build it and they will
come is so true.
So, you know, we've had treescoming on their own, we've had
native plants such as orchidsjust show up on their own once
we've given the space back.
Wildlife like uh coyotes, deer,bears.

(13:15):
We've had 14 sightings this yearum on the farm.
And so we're not sure whetherit's the same two bears roaming
around or how many it actuallyis.
But just to see, you know, andthe birds, swans and geese and
hawks, and even a bald eagle.
So nothing excites me more than,you know, having this wildlife

(13:36):
uh really showing itself back onthe land again.

SPEAKER_07 (13:40):
So most people don't know this, but the average boar
bear is range is 90 squaremiles.
So they will uh their kind ofterritory is that large uh in
the any of the studies that havetaken place regarding bears.
So yeah, you mentioned you're aregistered herbalist.
Now there's different umdifferent there's so there's a
licensed registered and amedical herbalist, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 (14:01):
Yes, and there's clinical herbalists, there's
master herbalists, there's allkinds of different designations
depending on what someone wouldwant to do.

SPEAKER_08 (14:10):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
So, you know, there's um different places that
you can look into.
Uh so for example, in Ontario,there's Living Earth School of
Herbal Medicine, there is the umDominion College of Herbal
Medicine, there's Wild RoseCollege for Herbal Medicine.
And so depending on what youwant to do, you know, if you

(14:31):
want some formal education andthen hands-on experience and
maybe mentorship, you would goon those websites of those uh
places to see what it is thatyou want to do.
So, you know, there's justlearning practical experience,
uh kind of foundational courses.
So that's actually like what ourcourse is.

(14:53):
It's foundational, it's just toempower folks to uh use herbal
medicine in their home forthemselves and their family and
their community.
But then if you wanted to be aum more so like a master
herbalist, that would be like athree-year course.
And first you would need to havea foundational uh course, like a

(15:14):
practical herbalist course priorto to be able to even get into
the master.

SPEAKER_08 (15:18):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
And then a clinical herbalist is usually, I do
believe it's four years, andthey'll there would be clinical
training and even placementwhere you had to work and shadow
alongside another clinicalherbalist um for so many hours.
So just depending on what folksare looking for, there's all
kinds of courses out there.

SPEAKER_07 (15:39):
Yeah, I know I was doing an event in Belleville,
and there was um a lady therewho was uh marketing some um
herbs, and she says, Oh, I'm aherbalist.
So I asked if she was aregistered licensed or clinical,
and she says, No, no, I'mstudying.
And uh because nobody hadquestioned her about it before.

(16:00):
So tell us about your course andum the you mentioned you have a
course and the course you have,and what's involved in that and
how do people get involved?
Because I'm finding a lot morepeople want to take control uh
of their health rather thanbecome dependent on the the the
current system that's out there.
They like the options and they'dlike to find out discussions and

(16:21):
how can they do things uh suchas finding out more about uh
your current course?

SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
Yeah, so so it's the ginkgo tree.ca and just look
under education and and we haveour course there.
But what, you know, as I said,my goal was to empower people to
take care of their own healthbecause it feels like um the way
modern medicine is, is that wehave lost the ability to even
take care of a common cold athome.

(16:49):
So we should be able to nurseour family with all these minor,
you know, ailments that arenormal for us and occur in one's
lifetime.
So, you know, it's just you justhaving that power to know, oh, I
can make a cup of tea and I canfeel better just because of my
cup of tea.
It's soothing my cold, it'shelping me go to sleep.

(17:12):
Um, you know, just learningbasics that you can then
incorporate into your life.

SPEAKER_08 (17:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
And a really big thing that I'm also um really
keen on is that um I learnedyears ago that we are supposed
to be ingesting over 2,000different plant species
annually.
So that's about 30 differentplants a month to get all the
different micronutrients we needto be healthy and resilient.

(17:40):
And so many people aren't doingit.
And you know, I give tours atRichter's and I find so many
folks just don't even realizelike they'll be just eating a
very small variety of plants.
So to open them up to hundredsof different plants is so
exciting to me because you know,we can make them in forms of tea

(18:03):
or add to food, smoothies,soups, and soup stocks, just so
that we can get these uhdifferent types of herbs and
plants into our diet that ourbodies so need to be healthy.

SPEAKER_07 (18:16):
Absolutely, Penelope.
And and and I I know a lot ofpeople that um um starting, and
I had uh Antonio on, and wetalked about cooking with herbs
that actually had medicinalapplications that people didn't
realize when they start to cookwith herbs that they have the
ability to grow with, they havehuge impacts, uh potential
impacts.
Um, but some of the things is isa lot of our listeners, um, as

(18:38):
soon as you say the word tea,black tea comes to mind, and
that's the only thing.
But there's a whole network ofdifferent teas out there.
And maybe you can elaborate onsome of the ones, uh, you know,
whether it's raspberry or what,what you would suggest, as you
mentioned for say the commoncold tea.

SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
Yeah, so a lot of times we can just drink singles,
you know, just one plant in acup of hot water.
So you would take like ateaspoon or a few leaves of a
plant, pop it into your cup,pour hot water on there, and let
it steep for a good fiveminutes.
And you could even steep itlonger if you like your tea
stronger.

SPEAKER_08 (19:14):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
But it's um, you know, if I wanted to go to
sleep, chamomile.
Chamomile is so underrated, Ibelieve, as a as a herb.
It is powerful and it iswonderful for children as well
that you can introduce into yourdiet.
So to make just a lovely cup ofchamomile tea and make that
ritual and routine before bed,that also sets you into the mood

(19:39):
for sleep.
You know, just going into thekitchen, pulling out the herbs,
making the cup of tea, it'swonderful.
But then if you wanted somethingthat's really nutritive, I love
stinging nettle tea.
So just harvesting some nettleor using dried nettle herb and
put that in a cup.
And as you know, stinging nettlestings, but as soon as it is

(20:02):
used as a pot herb, like in a incooking, or you saute it, or you
pour hot water on it for tea,that deactivates those uh little
stinging hairs.
So it's perfectly great.
But it is one of those herbsthat are really nutritive, so
really nutritious for our being.
And I just love the cup of tea.

(20:23):
And I also add it into my soupstocks and soups because I just
love having it everywhere.
But other herbs like that thatare nutritive, good for us,
would be alfalfa or red clover.
So when you're starting to usethese different herbs, you're
just introducing all kinds ofbenefits to your body that you
would not have had otherwise.

SPEAKER_07 (20:45):
Right.
So, and and that's just some ofit.
Uh, you mentioned um the alfalfaand some of the stinging nettle.
Now, what time of year do peopleharvest their stinging nettle?
And because I've seen umdifferent programs to try and do
some research on it.
If I have any expertise, itwould be in Chaga.
But when you start on theothers, because I have stinging
nettle patches, I have mintpatches, I have rosemary, I have

(21:09):
sage, I have lavage, I havelemon balm, all kinds of
different herbs around, youknow, mullen, et cetera, et
cetera.
What time of year should theseherbs be harvested?
And what do you have to do toharvest them in order to make
them appropriate or to use themlater on?

SPEAKER_00 (21:24):
Great question.
So we have many herbs are ourearly spring herbs for
harvesting.
So in the spring, we candefinitely harvest, again,
roots.
So we harvest roots spring,early spring, and fall.
And lots of times when weharvest the roots, let's say
we're harvesting uh burdockroots.

(21:45):
If you harvest spring roots, youcould make a tincture out of
that or dry them for tea.
And you could do the same withfall.
And sometimes we like to mixspring and fall roots together
and make a tincture out of it.
But burdock there is like justthis amazing product or herb for

(22:06):
our digestive system.
It's like candy for our gutflora.
It's so good for us.
So if you were to introduce aroot into your diet, you know,
the digestive system is one ofthe very first systems that a
herbalist would look at a lot oftimes in helping someone with
their health concerns.

(22:26):
So having the gut being nice andhealthy, that um burdock would
be a wonderful one.
But also in the spring, weharvest spring herbs like
dandelion leaves.
We would harvest stingingnettle.
And so you want stinging nettlewhen it's young and you like to
take the young plant and it justlooks so beautiful.

(22:47):
And the more you harvest nettle,your nettle patch, for example,
it keeps growing.
So it will continue to givebeautiful, tender um nettle to
you through into the summer.
But if you just harvest it onceand leave it, then of course
it's gonna get tall and uh notas good for harvesting.

(23:09):
So roots, uh again, spring,fall, herbs, whenever they're
ready.
So when flowers, if we're ifwe're harvesting flowers, we
want to have some buds, perhaps,and flowers just open.
We don't want to have theflowers that are waning.
You know, you want them eitherprior to or just perfect.

(23:30):
Okay.

SPEAKER_07 (23:31):
So um so give us uh now I know the difference, but a
lot of people wouldn't know thedifference between burdock and
milk thistle.
Uh I think there's uh some someeasier ways to identify them.
But are there other uh plantsthat would come close to those
that found in in in basicallyour part of Ontario?

SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Um like like so well, burdock and milk thistle,
one's a thistle plant, and oneis you know, has the big broad
leaves that many people confuseburdock with rhubarb.

SPEAKER_08 (24:04):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
They have those similar large leaves.
So here's the thing I thinkthat's really important.
With taking a basic herbalcourse, you're encouraged to
have like a field guide.
You're encouraged to have um gofor herb walks to learn to
identify plants from herbaliststhat are trained.

(24:25):
So when you mentioned that youasked that person, I'm really
surprised someone learning tobecome a herbalist would
actually call themselves that.
I worked day in and day out withplants for over 10 years before
I ever even called myself aherbalist.
I was being probably modest,yeah, but I felt that you really

(24:46):
needed to know your stuff beforeyou could say that because it's
misleading to people, right?
Yeah, so I feel like you need tohave like good field guides,
have someone who can take you onherb walks.
And also, I even have a plantapp that I have on my phone.
I don't trust it, I use it, ithas not been wrong yet for

(25:08):
anything that I've used it for,because I even double check on
things that I know, but I justuse it as a secondary opinion,
you know, on what something is.
And if I thought something, uhif you don't know, you don't eat
it.
Yeah, that's the other thing,you know.
You don't just ingest berriesand such, you know, thinking you

(25:30):
know what you're doing, becausesome things are poisonous,
because herbal medicinesometimes uses plants that would
be considered toxic orpoisonous, but you're using
small amounts, and thereforethat's where the health benefits
come from.

SPEAKER_07 (25:43):
Like blood blood root, for example, right?

SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Yes, lily of the valley is another good one to
use.
Uh, you know, yeah.
So these different herbsdefinitely are being used that
would be considered poisonous,uh, but are used in formulas.

SPEAKER_07 (25:57):
Yeah, and and there's when when you talk about
burdock, milk, thistle, or eventeasel, um, there's uh a number
of different ones out there thatthat people until they get the
expertise, like you said, thisthis app and what what's the app
called so that people can uh totake a look at it, if you don't
mind sharing that, so people candistinguish between various
things like like we justmentioned.

SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
Yeah, it's called Picture This.

unknown (26:24):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (26:24):
And that's the name of the app.
Um, so again, I wouldn't trustit solely.
I would really recommend findinga teacher in your area.
And also I encourage folks, havemany teachers, you know?
Like it's great to learn fromone person and develop a
relationship or a mentorship,but it's really important to

(26:45):
hear what different people haveuh to say about herbal medicine.
And also different teachers haveuh different areas they're most
um interested in.
Like for me, it is the botanicalsanctuary and you know, having
my at-risk plants and nativeplants and planting trees.
That's you know, a an area thatI really kind of shine in.

(27:07):
Right.
Um but everyone has their area,so it it helps you with your
learning.

SPEAKER_07 (27:12):
So you so you mentioned some of the regular
teas that you could take for acold, or what are some of the
things that you would suggest,say for uh blood pressure,
diabetes, arthritis, that andquite frankly, the diabetes that
I'm seeing out there is justgrowing in leaps and bounds.
And it may it gives me concernas to why the population is such

(27:32):
having such huge numbers.
But what are some of the thingsthat you would suggest that may
assist people in those areas?

SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
Yeah, well, uh okay, then let's we can we can touch
on um diabetes or blood sugar.
So gymnamia is a herb that a lotof folks uh have in formulas.
Cinnamon, you know, who knewcinnamon was so good, but you
know, there's a uh a bark thatimproves your insulin

(27:59):
sensitivity.
Yeah, um, so just greatfenugreek, which so here it's
going to help your diabetes andblood sugar regulation, but yet
it's also great digestively,this seed.
So there's so many uhbittermelon is another great one
uh that folks use.
Even nettle.
Nettle is, you know, so hereit's nourishing and rich in

(28:22):
minerals and helps to reduceinflammation, but also it is one
that would be used uh fordiabetics.
So there's so many herbs.
Um, let's think digestive, even,because there's a favorite that
I like to start with, likedandelion root, uh peppermint,
um, you know, peppermint beforeand after meals would be great.

(28:46):
You could have a ginger tincturethat you even just keep with
you.
Um let's see here.
What about immune system?
You know, especially becausewe're going into the fall.
Uh, so some immune support thatfolks use commonly would be
echinasia.
And so you could takeechinaasia, say, for a week just

(29:06):
to build your immune system up.
But if you had an onset of acold, you could take uh like a
teaspoon of echinacea every twohours on the onset.
Uh elderberry syrup.
I love to recommend people togrow elderberry.
Um Richter's also happens to,Richter's Herbs also happens to

(29:28):
sell elderberry uh bushes.
They're just small baby ones,but to plant those on your
property, and they're great forthe birds, but then also you can
harvest those elderberries andmake yourself elderberry syrup,
which if you have a cold, Iabsolutely love it.
And I'll just take little bitsthroughout the day, and it is so

(29:51):
amazing uh to have.

SPEAKER_07 (29:53):
How about oil of oregano?

SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Oh, yeah, it's funny.
That's just on a personal note,not a Favorite of mine, like for
taste myself.
Oh, yeah.
But the folks that love itreally love it.
So yes, I would highly recommendit if that's a favorite of
yours.
And that's the thing you'regonna realize and find out when
you're into herbal medicine andtaking stuff.

(30:16):
What one person loves and goesto, somebody else is just kind
of like, not really my favorite.
I like, you know, something elsebetter.
And that's great because there'smany different herbs one could
use for a condition, and we alllike different things, right?

SPEAKER_07 (30:34):
Well, and our all our bodies handle things
differently as well.
Exactly.
Good point.
Right.
So some some people, oil oforegano works wonders for, and
other people it's like we'rewasting our time.

SPEAKER_00 (30:45):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 (30:46):
You know, so you have to find out what works for
you.

SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Exactly.
Here's another really good oneis inflammation is a big one
that a lot of folks, a lot ofissues are inflammatory, right?
And so for arthritis andinflammation, to recommend folks
uh having turmeric in theirdiet.
Nettles again works great forthat.
Ginger again.
So you can see how if you starttaking some of these basic herbs

(31:12):
as teas and adding them to yourdiet, they're good for many
different things.

SPEAKER_07 (31:17):
Right.
And with the turmeric, you needto add pepper to it, correct?
In order to activate it.

SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
The pepper, absolutely, we add into a lot of
formulas because it helps withabsorption.
But turmeric definitely needs afat for your to become
bioavailable for your body.
Right.
So that's why it's really goodin curries and stuff like that.
And you'll find some really goodproducts out there that actually

(31:42):
have a fat already in thecapsule with the turmeric so
that you can absorb it.
Because if you're just takingpowdered turmeric and no fat,
you're not going to absorb it.

SPEAKER_07 (31:54):
Right.
So it's a number of fat-solubleuh herbs, are there?
Other ones?

SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
You know, I I don't know.
And this is the do you are youaware of any?

SPEAKER_07 (32:04):
No, just vitamin D from uh is the big thing that
I'm aware of.
That a lot of people takevitamin D, but if they don't
take it with a uh some sort of afood, uh they end up just
passing it through.
Right.
Right.
So vitamin D needs a is afat-soluble um vitamin, but uh I
didn't really um realize thatturmeric was a fat-soluble, and

(32:25):
that's what the active pepperdid to it.

SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Right.
And this is the cool thing,Jerry, about uh herbal medicine.
Like though, even when youteach, you learn, you know, like
because there's so many things Idon't know that I'm so curious
about um and that other peopleknow the you know the answers
to.

SPEAKER_07 (32:43):
Right.
So, and you mentioned stingingnettle or nettles, uh uh mostly
it's just stinging nettle.
I think I don't think the woodsuse wood nettles uh too much in
the area, do they?

SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Exactly.
No, you're right.
It is stinging nettle, yes.
Sorry.
Well, often we'll just herbalistwill say nettles, and it's like
everybody knows we're referringto stinging nettle.
Right.
But yes, it is stinging nettlethat I'm referring to.

SPEAKER_07 (33:06):
And my understanding uh about the rhizomes, which are
basically so for listeners whodon't know, uh, would be
underground stems where theycome from.
The rhizomes are very good forswollen prostate issues for
males.
And I also understand that uhstinging nettle is very high in
protein.

SPEAKER_00 (33:23):
Yes.
As a plant, the only like it'sit's probably out of plants.
I I I'm not a hundred percent,but I think it's one of the
highest anyway.
Yes.
If it's not the highest.

SPEAKER_07 (33:35):
I believe so.
I think it was like 19 grams ofproteins and uh in a hundred
grams of uh stinging nettle.
Which yeah, so that's quitesurprising, yeah.

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SPEAKER_07 (35:06):
Okay, here we are in Lindsay with Bill, who's
actually this gentleman hasgiven blood over 230 times.

SPEAKER_06 (35:14):
233, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (35:15):
233, that's amazing.
And you've had some success withChaga.
Uh tell us what you're dealingwith and what you did and uh how
you um what you used.

SPEAKER_06 (35:25):
Well, I had mild uh high blood pressure, mild high
blood pressure wasn't veryreally high when I was on
medication for a few years, andthen I uh quit drinking coffee
and started drinking his tea.
Uh the combination tea, thegreen and the chaga.
Right.
And uh my medication is gone.
Your medication's gone?

(35:45):
Gone.
And you couldn't give bloodduring the other times?
Yeah, I could.
Oh, you could?
I could, yeah.
Yeah, so but uh a few times thethe machine kicked me out.
Oh yeah.
So but now it doesn't anymore.

SPEAKER_07 (35:57):
So you think uh the the green tea in the chaga was
uh helped uh normalize yourblood pressures?

SPEAKER_06 (36:02):
Oh yeah.
Oh, very good because itwouldn't be just stopping
coffee, it would have to besomething else.

SPEAKER_07 (36:07):
And that's the only thing you did differently.

SPEAKER_06 (36:08):
Yep.
Well, we're thank you very muchfor that.
My blood pressure is probablythat of a 40-year-old man, and
I'm 71.
Oh, very good.

SPEAKER_07 (36:17):
Well, that's good to hear.
Thank you very much for that.
No problem.
Okay.
We interrupt this program tobring you a special offer from
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(36:39):
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Hey, thanks for listening.

(37:22):
Back to the episode.
So, what other sorts of thingscan like things like um uh
dandelion root or chicory rootbe utilized for, or mints and
things like that?

SPEAKER_00 (37:34):
Oh, yeah.
Well, dandelion root.
So if you just made yourself ayou could even add dandelion
root into your coffee.
There's roasted dandelion root,right?
That lots of folks drank.
And you could drink it on itsown or just have dandelion root,
and it's great liver support.
It's a gentle dandelion root isa gentle detox for your body,

(37:55):
uh, great for your digestivesystem.
Uh, chicory root.
I've been falling in love withchicory root.
It's so funny.
It wasn't until I startedactually um working at Richter's
did I even really use chicoryroot.
And so we had a roasted chicoryroot here, and we started mixing

(38:16):
it with our morning coffee.

SPEAKER_08 (38:17):
Oh, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
Just like you're doing with your chaga, I guess.
Yep.
And uh really loving it.
And we're finding that it's agreat digestive uh plant to add.
It's a liver tonic, uh, it's aprebiotic fiber.
Uh, so it's just anotherwonderful one to add to your
diet.
And this sometimes you get intoa routine, or I I have a, you

(38:39):
know, I use a lot of plants, uh,a ton of plants, actually.
But then sometimes you justaren't using certain ones for
whatever reason.
I don't know.
They're just not on your radar.
So that was one that just reallypopped up last year for me that
I've really startedincorporating often into my
diet.

SPEAKER_07 (38:56):
And a lot of people uh will say to me, Well, what is
chicory?
And I said, Well, uh on your wayhere, did you notice this kind
of like a I guess it's a like alight blue kind of color weed
growing at this growing at theside of the road?
That's chicory.
It grows just about everywhere.
Really?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:14):
Yeah.
Isn't it beautiful though whenyou see it?
Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's quite, it's quite surprising in
the um the amount of chicorythat I see everywhere now.
And I show people, you know, Iwas showing my wife Diane, I
said, there's some there,there's some there, there's
some.
Really?
I had no idea.
Most people don't.
When when we go for a walk,whether it's plantain or mullen
and all those things that areout there, people don't even
realize, you know, and I explainto people when I do some of my

(39:39):
lectures and seminars, one ofthe slides I show is um
metamucil.
And the powdered metamucil, thenumber one component is comes
from plantain, the the weedplantain, as we call it, or
whichever, um, as opposed to thebanana plantain.
It's the number one component inthere.
And actually, I I happen tonotice as well that they sell

(40:01):
now a metamucil um gummy whereits number one component is
chicory.
So all these different thingsthat are out there that people
don't even realize that arecertain businesses are starting
to take advantage of becausethey see that there's benefits
out there, and lo and behold,people can realize, hey, it's
growing on my street.

SPEAKER_00 (40:21):
Isn't that something?

SPEAKER_07 (40:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what time of year do youharvest?
So you mentioned about the fallharvesting of burdock and the
spring harvesting of burdockroot.
Uh, but other things like uhchicory or dandelion and those
sorts of things, when and how doyou dry, and is there a certain
way do you use a dehydrator todry them or just air dry them or

(40:42):
how?

SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
Yes, so all roots, any roots that you come across,
whether it's golden seal rootsor or chicory root or any root
is harvested spring or fall.
And so, and then to dry, they'rethey're dug up, and then usually
they are washed three times uhin just water, nothing fancy,

(41:05):
no, nothing added to it, justwashed three in three different
cycles.
That's what we used to doanyway.
And then we used them to maketinctures, which we would chop
up the roots, and then we wouldadd them in a jar, and we would
use a um alcohol to put over theroots in the jar, and we'd let

(41:28):
them steep for at least, say,seven, eight weeks before ever
using, and some and then alsolet them steep even longer if
necessary.
Um, but if you're drying themafter that washing process, you
typically would put them onscreens and then put them into a
drying cupboard.

(41:49):
So there it's a very low heat uhfor drying.
Some folks at home will usetheir um oven on really low, but
it has to be very, very low.
Um to do that.

SPEAKER_07 (42:05):
Yeah, I found uh like I tried a couple of ovens a
couple times back in myexploring stage of all this kind
of stuff.
Um, but the oven couldn't go lowenough.
I usually tried to get it below140, and I think the lowest it
went was 180.
So it was hard.
You'd use a a thermometer insideand then start it and stop it
and that sort of stuff.
But it's hard to find one thatworks very well.

SPEAKER_00 (42:27):
That's why sometimes it's nice to purchase certain
things from people that have theequipment that, you know,
they're able to do it properly.
I mean, you can dry, you know,high and dry, like our
grandmothers would have dried,you know, you'd see stuff up in
the rafters or up like in myfarmhouse on the third floor

(42:48):
where it's drier and not asdamp.
That would be your better spotsin the house if you were hanging
stuff to dry.
Right.
You don't want to hang things todry and then it be moist where
there's uh then molds canhappen, right?

SPEAKER_07 (43:04):
You mentioned a plant that I've I've I keep
looking for, but I don't findany golden seal.
Do you find it very much aroundat all?
Or and does Richters actuallysell golden seal plants that uh
we can plant uh in variousareas?

SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
They do, and that's where I get my mine from.
So golden seal is one of theplants on the United Plant
Savers uh uh at-risk andendangered list.

SPEAKER_08 (43:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (43:29):
And so uh Richters does sell woodland plants, and
so that's where I've started gotmy plants from to start my
little colony at home, and theyare so slow growing.
So if anyone uses, so I alwayssay this to my students if
you're using golden seal as aherbal product because it is an

(43:51):
amazing, it's like nature'santibiotic.
It's this really wonderful plantthat folks use.
But because you're using theroot, it's killing the plant,
obviously, right?
To harvest the root.
So we must give back to nature.
And so if you're someone who isusing herbal medicines, I really

(44:11):
believe like you can give backin many ways.
You could make a donation toUnited Plant Savers, you could
help someone who's growingplants, like Richter's often
helps me with uh, you know, thesanctuary work that I'm doing at
home.
So just having somewhere thoughwhere you can buy these woodland
plants, uh especially goldenseal, is phenomenal.

(44:31):
And then you can plant themyourself, especially if you want
to harvest it, because thenyou're just growing and
consuming your own plants.

SPEAKER_07 (44:39):
Now, one of the other plants that I spend a lot
of time, although we're gettingclose to the end of it, it
depends, mind you, the dry, thedry fall that we've had will
probably have uh still prettygood, but I harvest a lot of
sumac.

SPEAKER_08 (44:53):
Ah.

SPEAKER_07 (44:54):
And I make a lot of sumac tea and let a lot of
people try sumac tea and they'rejust they're quite shocked to
taste it.
And of course everybody says,oh, uh, what about poison sumac?
Well, poison sumac is verydifferent from staghorn sumac
and the the tea.
And and do you have muchbackground or you do you do much
with sumac at all?

SPEAKER_00 (45:13):
Yeah, I don't do a lot with sumac, but we have it
growing on the property.
And um, so we use it in um wemake sumac lemonade, yep.
Uh, which is really delicious ifyou uh uh have never tried it.
And it's also in um the recipefor Zatar spice, you know, which

(45:38):
is amazing.
So you can make your own spicewith that, but it's also there's
uh, you know, so just to getback to the flavor, it's tangy
and lemony, a little bitastringent, like takes the spit
a little bit of your mouth.
Yeah, um, but it is sodelicious.
So as a seasoning, if you wereto make it into a spice, it's
great in meats and rice and uhroasted vegetables, it's yummy.

(46:02):
Um, the lemonade idea.
Um and in herbal medicine, now,although I I don't use this a
lot, but if it was all I had, Idefinitely would use it for uh
inflammation.
It's used uh as an antioxidant,it's uh high in vitamin C and it

(46:23):
really tastes lemony, whichtherefore, you know, it's kind
of interesting it is truly highin vitamin C.

SPEAKER_08 (46:28):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Um can help with diarrhea because of that bit of
astringency that it has.
Right.
Uh helps um to boost your immunesystem and you know, just
resistance to infections.
Um I know that if you're outhiking, it's one of those uh
trail herbs that could be used,a poultice with the leaves or

(46:49):
the berries for minor wounds orrashes.

SPEAKER_07 (46:52):
So maybe you need to explain to some people what a
poultice is.
I know what a poultice is, but alot wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
Okay.
So some folks just uh take theleaves or the berries and you
can mash them up.
Uh maybe even add a little bitof water.
And actually, some people chewthem and make a poultice, it's
called a spit poultice, even youcan chew it up and just put it
right on.
So take it out of your mouth, orif you've done it with water and

(47:19):
put it right on, say the cut orthe rash, and just hold that
there.
You could wrap it on if you ifyou can do that.
I used to use a poultice likethat with comfrey leaves for we
had this dog that used to gethot spots all the time.
And oh my goodness, he loved it.
So I would boil up the comfreyleaves like spinach, you know,

(47:42):
and then I would take them whenthey're nice and warm and just
put them right on his little hotspot, and oh, it was just like
heaven form.
So it was kind of neat.

SPEAKER_07 (47:52):
So you you make a poultice uh for hot spots out of
Comfrey.

SPEAKER_08 (47:56):
I did.

SPEAKER_07 (47:57):
Yeah, okay.
Well, because my dog gets hotspots all the time, and I've
been looking for something touse, and I didn't uh realize to
try Comfrey, but now I've gotnow I know.

SPEAKER_00 (48:07):
Yeah, and you know what the interesting thing,
Jerry, I never read thatanywhere.
I just did that from knowing howwonderful Comfrey is, and I kind
of did that for my daughter onetime.
Oh, yeah, and then I thought,oh, I think the dog, it might be
nice on the dog, and the dogloved it, and so and would stand
there and just let me reapplyand reapply because it just felt

(48:30):
so good.
So um that's an that'sanecdotal, right?
Where it's not written anywhere,but I did it and it seemed to be
very effective.

SPEAKER_07 (48:38):
Yeah, well, you know, it that's how we find out
what works and what doesn't isby trying different things.
And and certainly uh next timeit's funny when it's warm
weather out and the dog goesswimming, it gets it gets hot
spots all the time.
Yeah.
And basically, for those thatdon't know what a hotspot is,
it's kind of it's kind of like aum an open source almost like on

(48:59):
a dog where the hair comes offand it kind of oozes a liquid,
and it really kind of looksdisgusting.
But uh yeah, and I can't figureout why when it uh gets exposed
to the water.
It was the same thing over theirlast lab.
Every time that he'd goswimming, uh the same thing,
he'd end up with hot spots allthe time, and I couldn't figure
out why.
But uh so now I got somethingelse I can try some Comfrey.

SPEAKER_00 (49:21):
Yeah, and it's fun because you can just experiment
and see does it work for yourdog?

SPEAKER_07 (49:26):
No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (49:27):
Yep.
So this time go ahead.
I just kind of digressed for aminute there, like with getting
onto the hotspot.
I just touching back on sumac, Ijust want to make sure I say to
of there is poisonous species ofsumac out there.
So you must be sure you're usingstaghorn sumac, right?
And avoid uh sumac from unknownsources, just as a you know,

(49:51):
safety protocol there.

SPEAKER_07 (49:53):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and the staghorn isred and the and the poison sumac
is the white berries, correct?

SPEAKER_00 (50:00):
That's right.
Yeah, thank you for pointingthat out.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (50:03):
Yeah.
So there are some ways toidentify because um we've we um
we we do provide a lot of thestaghorn sumac tea and let
people try it all the time.
Yeah.
So and I know one of the otherthings is uh uh sometimes uh in
in fatouche, uh one of the keyingredients in fatouche is uh

(50:23):
sumac, which is uh a greatEastern uh dish as well.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
So there's lots of differentthings.
So what other sorts of thingsthis year should people be out
trying to look at and see whatthey can kind of harvest or some
basic ones where somebodywanting to try and do their own
herbs to get involved and whatkind of sort of things can they
look at?
And and how do they, forexample, well we just talked

(50:45):
about sumac.
How do they preserve the thesumac berries so they can be
used all year long?

SPEAKER_00 (50:51):
Yeah, well, the sumac berries, uh so we're past
sumac berries now for picking.
They're they've gone a little.
I mean, some people may stillwant to use them, but uh right
now it would be definitely rootsfolks are doing.
And it would be um and somelast-minute dandelions.
You know how dandelion flowersseem to pop back up at the end

(51:13):
of the season?
Yes, there'll be some of thathappening, and so you can use
your I love using dandelion andmake an oil out of it, and then
because it's so inexpensivebecause dandelions are free for
the taking, and then I use thatoil throughout the the year, you
know, for inflammation, and Ialso use it um in lip balm.

(51:35):
My granddaughter is now lovingto make little lip balms, so
we've been using our dandelionoil in that.

SPEAKER_07 (51:42):
So, how do you make dandelion oil?

SPEAKER_00 (51:44):
Yeah, so it's so simple.
Herbal medicine is reallyaccessible for everyone.
So all you need is a nice oliveoil.
And I would take a just I use aum a liter mason jar, but you
could use a smaller one if youwanted to.
You will fill it like all saythree-quarters of the way with
dandelion flowers, and you wouldharvest them uh in the morning

(52:07):
when the sun is high in the skyand the bees are active.
That's a good time to know.
Um, and then you would pluckthem, put them in the jar, and
then you will cover them withthe olive oil.
And uh so three-quarters fullwith the flowers and then almost
full with the oil, and then youput the lid on.
You don't want the metal lidtouching the oil.

(52:30):
So some folks put a um wax paperin between as a barrier.
I just keep the oil downpersonally.
And then I sit it in the window,a sunny window, for uh four or
five weeks, six weeks.
Okay.
Yeah, and then I strain it out.

SPEAKER_07 (52:47):
Okay, very good.
So so you're mentioning, sorry,I didn't uh interrupt, but you
mentioned dandelion oil.
And I'm sure people will bewondering, okay, where do you
get it?
How do you do it?
This and you've answered that.
So what other sorts of roots dopeople should be looking at now?

SPEAKER_00 (53:01):
Yeah, so uh we mentioned, hmm, uh we uh so we
mentioned uh dandelion roots,burdock roots, golden seal
roots, uh what other roots?
Um I'm just trying to think ofmy my I'm drawing a blank.
Let's see here.
Stinging nettle?

(53:22):
Yes, I I personally don't use alot of stinging nettle, but here
there.
Ginseng roots.
So ginseng, of course, for it'san adaptogen and supporting
energy.
So ginseng, there's a reallygood one.
Um and you can grow your ownginseng plants as well if you
find a good uh supply of seedsor roots and used for immunity

(53:44):
and stress resilient.
Ginger, ginger roots, of course,uh, for digestive uh stimulant,
and if you're feeling ill.
So ginger's a great one to havea cup of tea in the car if you
have anyone who gets car sick ormotion sickness.
Um, turmeric, there's anotherone that's um you know, can be

(54:06):
used.
Valerian roots.
Oh have you ever smelt valerianroots?
They kind of smell like stinkyfeet.
The flour is beautiful, it's oneof my favorite.
But the roots, but it'swonderful for sleeping.
It's actually a sedative.
Uh, so it's good for yournervous system.
It's a great one to have on yournightstand at bedtime.

(54:28):
Uh, but again, it's supportingsleep and relaxation as a
nervine, and it is one of theroots that we would harvest
spring or fall.
Um let's see here.
Astragalus.
And a lot of people may knowastragalus as another one of
those immune-boosting herbsgoing into winter.
So that's another one of thoseuh herbs that could be used.

(54:53):
Uh and as I mentioned already,echinacea, echinacea is a root
that we also use.
So there's so many roots.

SPEAKER_07 (55:00):
And and and one one that I really push a lot of is
garlic as well.

SPEAKER_00 (55:05):
Oh, yes, as a ball, but oh, garlic is so delicious.

SPEAKER_07 (55:09):
Yeah, and yeah, it's and there's so many different
strains of garlic out there thatI didn't realize.

SPEAKER_00 (55:14):
Yeah, and you know, this is so sorry, I keep
mentioning Richters, butRichter's is where I've always
got my herbs from and alwaystold my students about just
because, you know, they're just30 minutes from my house and
friends of mine, and plus now Iwork here.
But we we Richters has so manyvarieties of garlic, but they
also have something that I justlearned a couple of years ago,

(55:38):
um, which is elephant garlic.
Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_07 (55:41):
Yes, I have.
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (55:42):
Yeah, and I never knew about it before, but it's
actually elite.
But they're these giantmild-tasting garlicky cloves
that you use, and they're big.
They're so delicious.
So if you're ever gonna trysomething new, uh, I really want
to recommend that to folks totry and look for it because it's
just a fun one that I only justdiscovered uh last year.

SPEAKER_07 (56:07):
Yeah, I was with a what, two weeks ago Sunday, I
was with a a garlic grower thathad 15 acres in garlic.
And they were moving forward.
Well, they they produce, I can'tremember how many tons of garlic
that they produce up in theMillbrook area.
Uh but they were moving forwardproducing black garlic.

(56:27):
Have you heard of use blackgarlic at all?

SPEAKER_00 (56:29):
You know what?
I have heard I I've heard thatterm, but refresh me.
I don't I don't really remember.

SPEAKER_07 (56:35):
So what they what they do basically is they slow
roast garlic.
And yeah, and it turns black,but but it's the the shelf life
is is hugely increased, and it'salmost kind of like a candy.
It's like it's like caramelizeduh the garlic, and it's actually
very, very tasty and veryflavorful.
Oh, so you tried it.

(56:56):
Oh, yeah, I've had quite a bit,yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:58):
Oh, I've never tried it.
Oh, that would be fun.
Okay.

SPEAKER_07 (57:01):
Yeah, actually a friend of uh Garrett's uh my
son, youngest son, um, theyactually took an old fridge in
order to make black back blackgarlic and and use that as kind
of like a a heating element ofsome sort to to put it all in
there, and they were using that.
But yeah, I found differentways.
So it was interesting to see,and more and more black garlic

(57:22):
is coming up on the market.
I see it in a number ofdifferent shows that I attend,
the outdoor show.
It's it was pretty prevalentthere.

SPEAKER_00 (57:29):
Cool.
Yeah, yeah.
So definitely something I'mgonna look for and try.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (57:35):
So uh Penelope, have you heard of much about Yabba
Mate?
Yarba Mate.

SPEAKER_00 (57:41):
Oh, I I have heard of it.

SPEAKER_07 (57:44):
I don't know much about it, but my my son, uh
Josh, my other son, says this isthe the new trend.
It's the the latest thing, it'sfrom South America, and and uh
all the podcasters and YouTubersare talking about yarba mate,
and I don't know much about it.

SPEAKER_00 (57:59):
Well, uh so my experience with and and I say
yerba mate, but it doesn't, youknow, everyone says things
differently.
So we had it, um, I had a teaand herb shop for a few years.
Right.
And I sold yerba mate uh in thetea shop, and we served it to
customers.
Um, but it was one for uh reallysupporting mental alertness and

(58:25):
endurance.
Um it was a bit of a digestiveaid that folks were using, and
of course, high in antioxidants.
Uh so yeah, folks, we're we'reloving it.
It has a it does containcaffeine, um but uh just a
really good uh cup of tea, or wecalled it a tea.

(58:45):
Um yeah, but other than using itfor mental alertness and you
know, fatigue, digestivesupport, and I do know we had
one person come in and they weregetting it for um mild, like a
mild weight loss uh managementthat they had heard.
So I hadn't heard about thatbefore.

(59:06):
So I would need to check intothat if that's so.
But what was your son?
Uh what what was he saying thetrend was?

SPEAKER_07 (59:13):
Well, he was just saying that uh uh the podcasters
are talking about all kinds ofdifferent benefits of it.
And and he didn't get into thespecifics.
And so I've just started, andthis is just something brand new
that's come to my attention.
So I haven't really had a chanceto look into it.
It's just been the past shortwhile that it was brought uh
forward to me, so I'm stilllooking into it.

SPEAKER_00 (59:32):
Yeah, so we definitely s sold it, and it was
uh was when I say it was common,it was one of those ones that
were common enough that wecarried it in the store, right?
And had people want it as aherbal tea.

SPEAKER_08 (59:45):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (59:46):
Um yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (59:47):
Okay.
Just wondered if you knew you.
So Penelope, d do you know anybooks that people or or you
mentioned the app, but are therebooks that people should look at
or or uh you would suggest andthat sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00 (59:59):
Yeah.
I always recommend RosemaryGladstar's books just because I
really love them.
Um Mimi Hernandez has a reallygood book out with National
Geographic right now.
So as a newer book, I'm reallyenjoying Mimi Hernandez's book.

SPEAKER_08 (01:00:19):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:20):
Um I also love like certain books that I think are
must read, like Rading SweetSweetgrass by Robin Walkamerer.
Um if you're just wanting toread something really
interesting, not have it as likea herbal how-to.

SPEAKER_08 (01:00:37):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:37):
Um The Boreal Forest, if you're interested in
uh that, the boreal forest is agreat book.

SPEAKER_07 (01:00:46):
Um yeah, Rosemary Gladstar's uh medicinal herbs, a
beginner's guide is one that Ireally suggest to a lot of
people.
And then there's another one Iusually recommend, Brenda
Jones's Medicinal Herbs ofEastern Canada.
Are two of the books that I Ishow a lot of people.
And and uh as you mentionedbefore, you you need to talk to
more people and find out moreinformation.

(01:01:07):
You just uh learning from one isgreat, but you'll get more
insight, like you mentioned,about the Comfrey and the and
the hot spots for dogs.
People learn different things,and those are a couple of the
books that I I suggest to peopleif they're interested in
looking.
But obviously, there's a lot ofother ones that you're
mentioning now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:23):
And the field guide, the Peterson's field guide.
I really love the Peterson'sfield guide.
So they'll have them fordifferent areas, you know, that
uh you can find your area andorder that online.
And sometimes you can get usedbooks, right, online, which is
uh pretty handy, or at thelibrary.
Don't forget, a lot of timesfolks are forgetting to use the

(01:01:46):
library.

SPEAKER_08 (01:01:47):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:47):
Um so a lot of our students instead of buying books
are using the library, and Ilove that.
Um so supporting the library.

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:55):
Well, Penelope, it's been great having you on the
podcast again.
How can people get in touch withyou or find out more details?
Or where do you suggest thatpeople would go to to look for
uh herbs and and get started inthose areas?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:08):
Okay, well, um uh you can find me uh at
theginkotree.ca and um I wantyou to check out so not just my
herb course, but we also have abotanical journey to Tuscany
happening this May.
So if anyone's interested indoing an adventure to Tuscany,
we did one uh two Mays ago andit was fabulous.

(01:02:31):
Only 22 people can come.
Uh, that's all the room thereis, and so that's also on my
website.
And um plants, where to get goodplants and dried herbs and
seeds.
Well, of course, I would alwaysrecommend Richters,
Richtersherbs.com.
Um, that's a great source.

(01:02:52):
And then just know that youcould go on to your Herbal
Association website, and theyalso list a lot of programs that
you can take and who you cantrust because I feel like it's
all about in today's worldfinding people that you know are
legit, that are doing the work,and that you can uh go and learn

(01:03:12):
from and experience uh a walkwith herbal medicine rest.

SPEAKER_07 (01:03:17):
Well, thank you very much, Penelope, of the Ginkgo
Tree.
We really appreciate you takingthe time to be on the podcast
and inform us about some greatthings and other opportunities
that people can have out thereunder the canopy this time of
the year.
Thanks, Penelope.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:31):
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_07 (01:03:32):
Yeah, no problem.

SPEAKER_10 (01:03:52):
Hi, everybody, I'm Angelo Viola.
And I'm Pete Bowman.
Now, you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right.
Every Thursday, Ang and I willbe right here in your ears,
bringing you a brand new episodeof Outdoor Journal Radio.
Hmm.
Now, what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
Well, you know there's gonna bea lot of fishing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:13):
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SPEAKER_10 (01:04:18):
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SPEAKER_03 (01:04:53):
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