March 3, 2025 • 41 mins
Join us for an enlightening exploration of Canada’s breathtaking Trans-Canada Trail, spanning an astonishing 29,000 kilometers of interconnected beauty from coast to coast. This episode dives deep into the intricacies of one of the world's longest multi-use trails, connecting hikers, cyclists, and nature enthusiasts with the vibrant landscapes and unique ecosystems that Canada has to offer. Featuring insights from Stacey Dakin, Chief Program Officer, we unveil how this trail fosters community connections and brings diverse groups together through shared outdoor experiences.
Learn about the successes and challenges in maintaining these trails, including addressable issues like accessibility for all, weather considerations, and amenities available to ensure safe and enjoyable adventures. We also cover exciting programs and events encouraging people to embrace nature during all seasons, engaging families and individuals alike in unforgettable outdoor experiences. Whether you're a seasoned adventurer or a curious newcomer, this episode promises to inspire and motivate you to explore the natural beauty of Canada. Join us in celebrating the connection between wellness, nature, and community. Don't forget to follow us on social media and subscribe for more insights!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right Every Thursday,Ang and I will be right here in
your ears bringing you a brandnew episode of Outdoor Journal
Radio.
Now, what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors From athletes.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth
and Turk and all the Russianswould go fishing To scientists.
But now that we're reforesting-and everything.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It's the perfect transition environment for life.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
(01:36):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by Indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest use, testimonials and
(01:59):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession and I now
spend my life dedicated toimproving the lives of others
through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of this strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld world.
(02:26):
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to natureand under the canopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode and hopefully we
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy, we can inspire a fewmore people to live their lives
(02:47):
under the canopy Well.
As always, I want to thank allour guests here in Canada, our
listeners in Canada and theStates and throughout the world,
in Switzerland and Ghana andTrinidad and Tobago, and, of
course, all those ones in theBahamas, and we really
appreciate you listening to ourprogram, because without our
listeners we wouldn't be there.
And, as always, if you have anyquestions or anything that
(03:09):
you'd like to hear about a showor suggestions that reach out to
us, we'd be more than happy tosee what we can do.
And I got to tell you thismorning I was out with a usual
with the Chocolate Lab, bensonGunner, and it was a bit cool.
Some pretty uh, quite a bit ofsnow out.
The wind, wind was prettystrong, so we were walking
through the bush and of courseyou're going through and you're
(03:30):
seeing all the broken branchesfrom the the um, the trees
because of the strong winds andthe fresh coyote tracks that
were out there, and sometimes Isee a pair and sometimes I see a
single, which usually indicatesyou're kind of pairing up, but
we're're seeing turkey tracksand a bunch of other stuff and I
know when I got to the studiothis morning I could see fresh
rabbit tracks in the snow alongthe parking area and I imagine
(03:52):
they're coming to get a bit ofthe salt, but hard to say.
It's interesting to see, and atminus 13, they're doing what
they can to get warm.
But we got a great guest today.
That's going to let us knowsome of the details, and welcome
to the program.
Stacey, tell us a bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 7 (04:08):
Hi, jerry, thank you for having me.
My name is Stacey Dakin.
I've been the Chief ProgramOfficer at the TransCanada Trail
since August of last year, soI'm just shy of six months.
My journey to the TransCanadaTrail has been shaped by a
passion for bringing peopletogether and creating meaningful
impact in communities acrossthe country, so I'm really
(04:28):
excited to be here with you andtalk about all things trail.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Yeah, very good.
Now whereabouts are youpersonally?
Whereabouts do you live, stacey?
Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 7 (04:37):
So I grew up in the greater Montreal area, so not
far from downtown.
My home and office right noware located on the unceded lands
of the Kanakehake, which isabout 20 minutes east of
downtown Montreal in Quebec, andI'm about a 10 minute walk from
the nearest section of theTrans-Canada Trail that goes
through Longueuil, longueuil,quebec, near Parc de la Cité,
(05:01):
which is a great park here nearhome.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Bien, now, I'm glad you mentioned that and maybe you
know my reference.
But whenever I ask my wifeDiane where she would like to go
out for dinner and her responseis Gibby's, do you know Gibby's
?
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Yes, downtown Montreal, in the old port, the
old section of Montreal.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
Exactly, it's an old monastery that had been
transferred into a restaurant.
So she always says and ofcourse we're just outside
Toronto, when do you want to gofor dinner?
Gibby's is the number oneresponse I get.
That's good.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
That's a little far for a dinner right About five
and a half six hours drive fromeach other.
Speaker 6 (05:39):
Well, I did it.
Once she had a special birthdaycoming up and I told her.
I said, okay, look, I said, andI called her work and I said
she needs to morrow off why?
And I said, well, it's herbirthday and I'm doing something
.
So we got up and she got homefrom work I said come on, pack a
quick bag and we're going.
(05:59):
We went down the train stationand took a train to Montreal and
went out for supper at Gibby'sand came back the next day.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
Yeah, and probably when you were walking nearby
Gibby's you were on theTrans-Canada Trail, because we
have a starting point of thetrail.
A trailhead is right near therestaurant.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Oh, really Well, tell us a bit about that, okay, but
first of all tell us a bit aboutthe Trans-Canada Trail, then
let's get right into yourspecialty.
Speaker 7 (06:25):
Yeah, so the trail is a series of 600 interconnected
trail sections that stretch fromcoast to coast to coast in
Canada.
So from the Atlantic to thePacific Ocean, from the Arctic
Ocean down to the US border,there's 29,000 kilometers that
are connected.
That's the trail system itself.
And then there's theTransCanada Trail Organization,
(06:45):
who I work for.
It's a national charity thatprovides funding, technical
support, tools and resources tothose 600 trail groups and
others in the trail sector aswell, to make sure that the
trail is maintained.
We provide tools and resources,we help to advocate for trails
in Canada as well and, yeah,we're really there to support
(07:09):
the trail groups that own andmanage those sections of the
trail.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
Okay, so there's 600 sections you mentioned, with
29,000 kilometers of trail.
Yeah, now is it one continuoustrail all across Canada, or do
they connect some way, shape orform?
Speaker 7 (07:25):
Yeah, so when you look at a map it does go from
one end to the other.
There is a, there is, it's nota linear line like the
Trans-Canada Highway.
So those who have been on thehighway you would you'd see it's
a little bit more of a straightline across the country,
through mountains and valleys,as straight a line as it could
be.
The trail system.
It's a little bit more uniquein that we can't be on all the
(07:47):
highways.
On the streets.
We really promote greenway.
We want to be able to be insafe areas so that we're not on
motorized trails.
So the trails can go throughmountains, they can go through
lakes and then we have, you know, trail sections that go through
cities.
So your local trail that'sdowntown Toronto, let's say,
(08:10):
also part of TransCanada Trail,although it's not in a forest or
in a lake.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
Okay, so you mentioned it starts just around
O'Montreal, somewherewhereabouts, and which way does
it go from there?
Speaker 7 (08:27):
East west both.
So the trailhead in Montreal isactually just the trailhead,
it's just a point of trailsection we do start.
Kilometre zero is Cape Spear inNewfoundland, and then it goes
all the way to Victoria wherethere's another point zero
kilometre.
So those would be the end toends.
And then there's a point northin the Arctic and another point
south in Sudbury, ontario.
So there's 4.0 kilometersstarting points.
(08:49):
So you can start wherever youwant.
But if you really wanted to go,we suggest to go west to east.
A lot of people have done eastto west.
That seems to be the normal one.
You want to follow the sun, butwith the winds, you know the
winds come from the west.
A lot of people who've done thetrail have said you know what
you.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
Well, do you keep track of?
How would you know whetherpeople usually go from east to
west or west to east.
Do they report, or is theresome way, or is there some kind
of monitoring for that sort ofthing?
Speaker 7 (09:20):
So I wouldn't say that there's a monitoring like a
formal monitoring.
We do have a lot of people who,a lot of people.
You know there's a certainamount of people that will want
to walk 29,000 kilometers.
There is a movie that wasreleased by Deanne Whalen, her
adventures on the Trans-CanadaTrail 500 Days in the Wild.
You could take a look at this.
At the time there was 24,000kilometers.
(09:42):
She did it from east all theway to the west.
So that's a beautiful story towatch about the Trans-Canada
Trail.
So monitoring it, you knowpeople will let us know hey, I'm
doing the trail.
Can you tell me where?
You know if I'm in this section?
Where might I stay?
Is there any closures?
Can I have food delivered,clothes delivered?
They will reach out to us forthat sort of thing.
But on a day-to-day basis we'reable to work with some.
(10:10):
We look at cell phone data sowe're able to see how many
people come onto the trail,where they come into, where
they're hanging out, and we'reable to do some analysis in that
way.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Okay.
So tell us, stacey, when youtalk to a canoeist, there are
certain level of routes atcertain, you know depends on how
tough the rapids are.
For there's kind of beenbeginner levels to advanced
levels where you don't want topeople who haven't had a lot of
rapid experience.
Is it the same sort of thingwith trails where you're going
(10:37):
to get different levels oftrails, where it's pretty remote
and, hey, you better have someexperience.
You got to know what you'redoing, you're into some road,
you're not going to have anycontact with people for an
extended period of time, andthat sort of thing?
Or is it pretty much there's alot of avenues to exit if people
are inexperienced and want toget out of the rain or the
weather or something along thoselines?
Speaker 7 (10:59):
So definitely 29,000 kilometers.
There's a lot that is rural andremote and that you're off the
grid.
So on our website, tctrailca,we do havea map.
You can go in and take a lookat the map.
It will provide you informationon each of the sections of the
trail.
So the 600 sections areidentified and labeled on that
(11:20):
map.
You'll be able to see what areyou allowed to do there.
You know hiking, walking,cycling.
It'll flag for you if there'ssnowmobiles, atvs on the road as
well.
There are many sections thatyou have access to bathrooms,
parking lots that you can comein and out on a day, a day hike,
you know no problem.
But there are definitelysections where it's a little bit
(11:41):
more remote.
You would need to beexperienced or, you know, be
ready for that experience.
Have a tent with you, have foodperhaps.
You know lots of water and theright gear.
So definitely there aresections that are a little bit
more for the adventuresome folks, but there's plenty of sections
that you can go with your kids,your parents, bring your dog,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
So you brought up something.
When I was Minister of NaturalResources, I did some research
on getting females women intofishing, and can you imagine
what the number one question wasfor women going fishing?
Speaker 7 (12:18):
Yes, is there a bathroom?
Speaker 6 (12:20):
Exactly when do I go to the bathroom?
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
You brought that up.
You mentioned about bathroomsIs that there's that sort of
facilities along some of thesesections where it isn't
identified.
So if somebody wants to be surethat, okay, we can walk this
section because we have accessto that at that time.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Yeah.
So, like we don't own theTrans-Canada Trail, doesn't own
and operate the trail system.
We are the stewards of theconcept of the Pan-Canadian
Trail.
So we do work with the localgroups, which could be
government agencies you knowwhether it's local government or
federal or they could bevolunteer groups.
So it really depends on thecapacity of that group to be
(12:57):
able to afford amenities.
So you know, a federal park forsure you'll have washrooms, you
might even have showers, you'llhave lots of the amenities that
you're looking for, whereas atrail section that is owned and
operated by a volunteer groupmight be a little bit more rough
and rural.
So you might want to take thatinto account when you're picking
your trail route.
What is it that you need?
Do you need bathrooms?
(13:18):
Do you need accessiblebathrooms?
So not just any bathroom, butif you happen to be in a
wheelchair or you have issueswith sight or with hearing, do
you need accommodations thatsome of these trails?
Some trails have it, sometrails don't.
So you might want to look intothat before you head out.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
So sections of the trail are wheelchair accessible.
Speaker 7 (13:40):
Sections of the trail are wheelchair accessible
exactly.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
Okay, and now are there paved?
Because I know in Oshawa we'vegot the Oshawa Trail which runs
basically from the north end ofthe city down right down to Lake
Ontario.
It's all paved by the city.
Are there paved trails thatinclude in this or not?
Speaker 7 (13:57):
Oh yeah, lots of the trail sections are paved and
that's what we've given in ourfiscal years are the same as the
federal government.
So 2023 to 2024, we gave out$5.3 million.
We're on track to give aboutthe same Part of the funding
that we give is forinfrastructure development.
It is for looking ataccessibility, so modifying your
(14:18):
trail to make it moreaccessible.
So, for sure, there are trailsthat are a little bit wider, so
that you can accommodate walkers, cyclists, those who might be
in wheelchairs, or differenttypes of transportation.
We do have bathrooms that havebeen modified, have bathrooms
that have been modified.
We are looking at apps as well.
That, you know, for those whoare vision impaired.
They can maybe have afacilitated experience through
(14:41):
an app that will, you know, tellthem what's on the trail, what
are they seeing.
So we are developing thosetypes of partnerships to make
the trail more accessible, andnot just physically accessible
but, you know, mentallyaccessible.
What are the activities, whatare the tourist opportunities on
the trails, to make it moreinteractive for folks.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
Interesting and I recall, quite a while ago, my
son and his friend, I took themto horseback riding, which was
through Algonquin Park, okay,and it was an outfitter that had
access and was allowed to dotrails through the park.
(15:20):
And what I'm getting to is,when you're hiking through a
park, do you need to get passesto go through the park to hike
the trail through the park?
Speaker 7 (15:28):
So there are certain sections of the trail absolutely
you need to pay and those aregenerally, you know, park,
provincial parks or federalparks that have a fee.
You do need to get a license oryou know whatever they provide
you, but you do need to pay thatfee.
Most trail sections are freeunless there's a designated
activity that day or thatweekend that you need to pay an
(15:49):
entrance fee.
But yeah, in some cases theprovincial parks, federal parks,
for sure you have to pay.
Otherwise it's generally free.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Oh, interesting Now, Stacey, I had to recall way back
in the probably late 80s, 90s Iwas over at a friend's place at
Elmont, ontario, and hisneighbor said he was heading out
because he was getting prepared, because he was going to
Scotland to hike the connectingtrails in Scotland and through
(16:20):
the highlands.
That was their holiday.
They went there and did thatsort of thing and it was so that
you could hike from one sectionof the trail.
You stayed in a small town andthey had beds and breakfasts or
pubs and that sort of thingswhere they did town.
And they had beds andbreakfasts or pubs and that sort
of things where they did, andthen they would hike another
section through the ScottishHighlands to another community
and they could look at thedistance.
He was training himself with apack and walking stick to make
(16:42):
sure that he could do gettingready to do it all.
Is that the same sort of thingthat is potentially here, that
people who are hiking it canlook and see that there's a bed
and breakfast or accommodationsat one section and then get
meals and then continue on?
Speaker 7 (17:00):
Yeah, so we're working with some of our
partners on this.
So Destination Canada is anexample, and a lot of the local
destination management offices.
So Canada biggest draw inCanada is nature and Indigenous
culture.
That is something that we know.
People will come to Canada inorder to enjoy the outdoors and
immerse themselves in Indigenouscultures.
(17:20):
A lot of that is done on trails, and so we are working with
Destination Canada and someother offices to designate some
of our trails as exceptionaltrail experiences where you'll
have access to restaurants, ahotel or an Airbnb, a bed and
breakfast.
Along the way there might be anopportunity to have your bags
(17:40):
transported.
So if you're walking, it's alittle bit like a Camino
experience in Spain.
If you're on a bicycle, youhave access to pump your tires,
do a repair if need be.
We have an example here, notfar from my home in Quebec the
Véloroute Gourmande, which isthe cycle route I'm translating
here quick on the fly cycleroute for the foodies.
(18:01):
So you can, you know, ride yourbike from Montreal all the way
to Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu,which is about 40 kilometers,
and along the way you have someplaces to go for good food and
perhaps some wine and beers andother local foods and food.
(18:22):
It could be artisan items aswell.
You have access to that alongthe road Very interesting.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
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Speaker 6 (19:44):
And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga
Health and Wellness.
Okay, we're here with Kim fromBob Cajun and Kim, you had a
great experience with the Chagacream and your grandson.
Can you tell us about that abit?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, so my grandson actually struggles with
psoriasis.
He's only 16 years old, so ofcourse, the self-esteem right.
He doesn't want his face allcovered in scales and stuff like
that.
And I picked him up on aweekend to come and visit with
me and I had overheard youtalking to somebody about
(20:19):
psoriasis.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So it kind of piqued my interest and I thought I
would ask you about that.
And when you explained it to me, I took a container home for
him, Right, and in one day hewas over the moon happy that his
face looked clear and he'sgoing to be religiously doing it
because he's so self-consciousabout it.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
So he tried other things through the medical
system and things like that,yeah, and he just didn't have
any success.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Correct, he had a prescription of cream and you
know, it would sort of dry it upa little bit.
But that was the problem itjust dries it up and then it's
flaky on his face okay, hedoesn't really like that and it
leaves a lot of little redblotchy stuff right.
So after he rubbed that stuffon the chaga stuff, right he was
.
His face didn't look so angry,you know, because it's a red
(21:10):
angry sort of right on his faceand it didn't look so angry, it
looked looked soft and clear.
So he was over the moon happy,and so I took him home, and then
he messaged me after a coupleof days to tell me that he's so,
so happy that his skin looksclear.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
Great.
Thanks very much, kim.
From Bob Cajun, you're welcome.
Okay, we interrupt this programto bring you a special offer
from Chaga Health and Wellness.
(21:46):
If you've listened this far andyou're still wondering about
this strange mushroom that Ikeep talking about and whether
you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of
interest to you.
To thank you for listening tothe show, I'm going to make
trying Chaga that much easier bygiving you a dollar off all our
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(22:07):
All you have to do is head overto our website,
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If you're new to Chaga, I'dhighly recommend the regular
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This comes with 15 tea bags perpackage and each bag gives you
(22:28):
around five or six cups of tea.
Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
Or six cups of tea?
Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
Stacey, what kind of uses youmentioned about hiking, walking,
cycling, but is there horsebackriding, atv, snowmobile uses
and things like that along thetrail as well?
Speaker 7 (22:46):
Yeah, so we really prioritize greenway and water
routes so you know safedestinations.
There are some trails that youknow ATVs and snowmobiles are on
, so snowmobiles in the winteris a little bit easier on the
trails.
Atvs can be a little bit moredifficult, just in terms of
potential damage to the trails,but also if you're walking or if
(23:09):
you're on a bike in an ATV.
It's not ideal, it is doableand there are many rural areas
in the country where ATVs cannotbe avoided.
But, yeah, most of it is hiking, walking, cycling,
cross-country skiing,snowshoeing, horseback riding,
as you said, and there are othersections that, yeah, there are
motorized vehicles there as well.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
Right, I recall a friend of mine bless his soul,
doug.
He took his snowmobile up onthe snowmobile trail north of
Osh where he hooked up on PortPerry Wayne.
He was riding a snowmobile andcame across a round bend and all
of a sudden there was a dogsled team in the middle of the
trail and he had to go into thebush to get out of the way.
(23:53):
How do you?
Is there kind of stuff likeone-way stuff or no-use
motorized vehicles and stuff inorder to assist with things like
that, just to give a comfortlevel when people are using the
trails?
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Yeah, so if you do go on the website and look at the
map, tctrailca, you will be ableto see sections where it's
motorized and non-motorized.
So that's the first thing is doyour homework before you leave.
For sure, there's lots ofsignage everywhere.
We do try and encourage theone-way direction, so, like a
car, you're driving one way onthe right side and the others
(24:24):
are coming at you on the leftside.
Some of the trails are narrow.
Sometimes there's damage thathappens due to climate change,
or just a tree has fallen and sothat you have to be right
around it.
Um, but yeah, you have to becareful when you're on a trail,
especially nowadays.
There's also, uh, bicycles thatare electric and they're going
much faster than a regularbicycle or someone who's walking
(24:48):
, so you have to be be careful.
There's a lot of requests inlarge of the trails, right, so I
think the standard was six feet.
Now we're looking sometimes ateight to 10 feet across.
That just makes it wider, makesit easier for people to walk
side by side.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
And do you chip bark a lot of these trails wherever
it's possible, or do you putthings down to deter growth in
those areas?
And how do you maintain allthat sort of stuff?
Speaker 7 (25:11):
Yeah, so that's really the local trail groups
that will maintain that.
There's all sorts of techniquesyou can put logs along the side
, you can put railings, you tryand clean out the rubbish, the
growth.
I should say not the rubbish,but the growth that's happening.
So you know there's a bigvolunteer movement behind this
(25:34):
right to manage and operate thetrails.
There's lots of cleanup that'sdone in the spring where, after
the winter and then all throughthe summer, as as more and
people, more and more people usetrails, there's more and more
need to maintain and upkeep thetrails.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
Okay, yeah, that's a good thing, um, the more usage
and it.
And it was interesting becauseI know I built a trail in a
section in Oshawa.
I worked with Noel Hutchisonwho was the Parks and Rec
Director for the city of Oshawa,and we took him and walked him
down and we showed him and itgets extensively used.
(26:07):
It's through part of the cityproperty.
It's only a small section maybe, maybe um a quarter mile sort
of thing, uh, but it's widelyused by a lot of people.
And there was somebody out thismorning on it with me as well
and she was taking out, uh,peanuts for the wild turkeys
that are in the area there now,cause they've kind of moved in.
(26:29):
But, um, and to make sure thatit's all taken care of, we work
with a number of groups to chipbark it and I put up a lot of
rails so that it wouldn't washaway and things like that.
But it takes quite a bit ofmaintenance to keep it good and
we try to do that to the best ofour ability.
And it's great to have thesesmall things in small areas like
that, because a lot of peopleuse them just as, kind of to get
(26:52):
back to nature a little bit,which is always good, and I
enjoy my my morning time doingthat very much with my dog,
gunnar.
But are there canoeing sectionsof a trail as well, through
lakes and rivers and stuff likethat?
Speaker 7 (27:04):
Yeah, there's several , several sections that are
kayak canoe friendly.
They generally we we havelanding points and for people to
come in they can either parktheir cars if they need to.
If someone's doing a longstretch, they'll have a spot
that they can camp for the night.
But there are sections that area little bit more rural as well
, so you'd have to figure outyour portage route and plan for
(27:25):
that accordingly.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
Right, that's good.
So who maintains?
There's various groupsthroughout all the trail that
maintain the trail and youmentioned about a tree coming
down and blocking it and isthere places where this section
is maintained by them?
If you see anything, notifythis group in order to help
maintain it.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Yeah.
So the 600 groups across Canada, which include the volunteer
groups up until government.
They're really the ones who own, operate and manage the local
trails.
We often will get an email or aphone call to say, hey, there's
damage, you know, there's abridge that is washed out,
there's a culvert that hascollapsed, there's a tree,
(28:05):
there's some erosion.
We will get those calls, butthen we'll work with the local
trail group to have it fixed.
So there's the before, duringand after these types of things,
right?
So how can we build trails thatavoid these types of
occurrences?
That's one.
Once it happens, how do wereroute so that the user is able
to continue their voyagewithout damaging nature
(28:27):
unnecessarily?
So some people, if it's broken,they'll find their own path and
make their own path what wewant to see.
Can we address the rerouteright away?
Can we fix it and address it?
And then, if we have to rebuild, let's say a bridge has fallen
down, are we building backbetter Like?
Are we making it so it's moresustainable, it can withstand
climate change and even theamount, the volume of people
(28:49):
that are going on the trailversus when perhaps that bridge
was built, you know, 10, 15, 20years ago, mm-hmm.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
Yeah, I remember John Roswell, bless his soul, was an
engineer.
He was also the mayor of SaultSte Marie in Ontario and he was
commissioned by I'm not sure ifit was a group, a snowmobile
club or the province, and he wasbuilding and engineering a
snowmobile trail bridge to goover one of the rivers south of
(29:19):
the Sioux, actually south ofSudbury and you can see it there
.
And I got into discussion withhim and he said oh, it was such
a nightmare because weoriginally designed the bridge
for snowmobiles, but then wefound out that they were going
to use this as part of a trailsection and walking is a
different vibration of trail ona large span bridge like this,
(29:44):
and so we had to redesign it toaccommodate walking and
snowmobiles.
I had no idea that there wasthat kind of extent of
engineering to take place, thatwalking would have a different
impact than snowmobiles, simplybecause of the vibration that
went with walking for an impactin snowmobiles, simply because
of the vibration that went withwalking.
Now, stacey, we had the BruceTrail on and over time, a lot of
(30:05):
the routes change a lot oftimes because they're through
private property and landowners,and landowners change and so do
their expectations orutilization?
Does the routes change overtime and where do people find
notification if they do?
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, so definitely the routes will need to be
adjusted due to closures,special activities, weather
events and, like you said, sale,sale of land, transfer of
ownership.
So our efforts are really aboutcollaborating with local groups
to open more greenways.
So if a trail closes, how canwe rebuild it in a green way so
that it is for non-motorized use?
(30:36):
We want to.
It's about partnership, right?
So the notion of building atrail that might hit a private
land, an Indigenous community, amunicipality in the federal
park, all in the span of 10 or15 kilometers, is something that
we have to work on daily.
So it is collaboration.
It's making sure the vision isclear of what we're trying to
(30:58):
achieve and look at it for thegreater good, and greater good
is really having trails thatpeople can go out on, that they
can exercise on.
You know it's good for theirmental health, and so we really
try to focus on that and seewhat can we do together to make
sure that a trail remains, evenif it changes direction.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
Okay.
So, and I know one of thelandowners concerns is liability
for trails going through theirproperty and if somebody gets
injured on that, what happens insituations like that?
Speaker 7 (31:29):
So all of the trail owners and operators have to
have liability insurance.
In order to be part of theTransCanada Trail, it's a key
element.
So if something happens on thetrail, we do have liability
insurance.
To make sure this is theTransCanada Trail specifically,
there is liability insurancethat allows us to deal with that
.
Speaker 6 (31:49):
Okay, yeah, because that's some of the biggest
concerns that I heard.
When new owners take in, thefirst thing is oh, if somebody
gets injured, I'm liable.
And that's not quite the case.
You've got all that taken careof to assure that the trail
continues on to be the trailright, Exactly.
So how did the trail start?
How did this whole processbegin?
Speaker 7 (32:10):
So the idea of a nationwide trail started with
Pierre Camus, a Quebecer, andBill Pratt, an Albertan.
So they were in charge of thecross-country celebration for
Canada's 125th anniversary in1992, where this idea for a
Trans-Canada Trail system wasborn From then it was all about,
you know, national unityconnecting people to nature and
(32:34):
one another.
The organization, soTrans-Canada Trail itself was
officially formed in December1992.
You know, national unityconnecting people to nature and
one another.
The organization, so transcanada trail itself was
officially formed in december1992.
After that, we had 25 years ofgrassroots work finding donors,
securing government funding andworking with local groups to
connect the trail section.
So the the connection of thetrail idea 1992, connections
(32:54):
actually happened in 2017.
So not that long ago that wewere connected from coast to
coast to coast.
And since 2017, it's reallyabout growing the network with
new sections, supporting thetrail groups to make sure that
we maintain connection but thatwe also have safe trails, usable
trails that everybody loves.
And right now, 29,000kilometers.
(33:15):
We have a goal of about 30,000kilometers by 2027.
And daily we get calls fromtrail groups saying, hey, we
want to be part of this.
It's seen as a nationaltreasure, right?
We're the longest multi-usetrail in the world, and so it
really is something to be proudof.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
That's a good thing and hopefully people listening
to this will gain some knowledgeabout it and start to utilize
it.
So is there a cost to use thetrail or certain sections of it
and things like that, Stacey?
Speaker 7 (33:48):
Yeah, as we discussed a little bit before, it's
completely free.
Generally it's free, other thanif you're going through a
national or provincial park.
Generally it's free, other thanif you're going through a
national or provincial park andthen sometimes there are
activities happening on thetrail that weekend or that week
that you might have to pay for.
But generally, yes, it's free.
Speaker 6 (34:03):
Okay, and so what kind of activities take place on
the trail?
Is there seminars, lectures?
I know I had some mushroomgroups on that.
Take mushroom group out thattalk about mycelium and the
mycological experience on someof these nature trails around.
Is that the sort of thing thattakes place, or is there?
Do you know of many?
Speaker 7 (34:23):
yeah, so exactly what you, what you just described is
a typical event that couldhappen on a trail.
We did have a large-scale eventthat happened not far from the
Ottawa section of theTrans-Canada Trail back in the
fall of 2024.
So we had partnered with theWorld Trails Network to host the
World Trails Conference here inOttawa.
This was a big milestone, as itwas the first time that the
(34:46):
World Trails Conference was heldin North America.
It brought in 400 participantsfrom 35 different countries,
including trail groups acrossCanada and around the globe from
35 different countries,including trail groups across
Canada and around the globe andwe were able to share knowledge.
We discussed collaboration andconnection with the global trail
community.
Beyond big events like this, weactively engage with trail
(35:06):
groups in various ways.
So we'll speak at conferences,participate in seminars and
support trail initiativeswhenever possible.
So whenever the trailinitiative is, it could be a day
of cleaning, it could be avolunteer recognition event.
There's also trail care days ortrail care events.
They're held on InternationalTrails Day, which is the first
(35:26):
Saturday in June annually, andthen, like as an organization,
the staff and our board memberswill attend trail openings,
funding announcements,celebrations for new signage,
cultural features or new tourismexperiences along the trail,
and those are usually localevents that we will come in and
(35:47):
participate or help to fund.
But generally speaking, on thetrail most events are organized
and hosted locally.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
Very good.
So what's the busiest part ofthe trail?
Most events are organized andhosted locally.
Very good.
So what's the busiest part ofthe trail?
Is there a province that hasmore activity, or is it?
Um, is there a destination, onethat everybody's got to do this
, the cabot trail sort of thing?
And uh, is there places?
Uh, where's the busiest part incanada that gets the most
utilization?
Speaker 7 (36:11):
well, I would say the big cities are probably the
ones with the biggest usage,right, right.
So, like a downtown, vancouver,toronto, montreal have the, you
know, the most people that areon them.
But we do have popular trailsin Quebec, near Bay, st Paul.
We have on Prince Edward Islandas well, there's trails that
are pretty popular, and I wasjust in Banff last week so we
(36:34):
were on the Bow Valley Trail.
That was, you know, fantasticand beautiful.
So every city has their ownunique trails.
They're, all you know,relatively popular.
For sure the most popular wouldbe the city trails.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
Oh, very good, and so all year long.
So you're just on a trail outin Alberta.
Was it a Chinook coming throughor was it pretty cold?
Speaker 7 (36:57):
I think we were lucky to have a semi-Chinook, so it
was about zero to minus fivedegrees Celsius, which is pretty
warm, I would say, for Calgaryand Banff.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
Good, good.
Now, are there any seminars orconferences or things?
As you mentioned?
A number of groups and thingslike that come to mind that
you're aware of, that peoplemight be interested in.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Well, right now we're running a campaign so this
might be of interest to yourlisteners the Blahs to Oz
campaign, and you can check itout on social media.
Blahs to Oz campaign is reallyabout getting people onto the
trail in the winter months.
So when it's cold and it'sgloomy out and you really just
want to, you know, huddle undera blanket and have soup.
(37:40):
We're encouraging people to gooutside, enjoy the beauty of
Canadian nature, take a walk, godo some snowshoeing.
You can do some cross-countryskiing, so that's a big campaign
that we're doing right now.
We did launch recently theTrail Care Funding Program.
So if there are groups that areinterested in and it's for
(38:03):
Canadian-based organizations, sonot necessarily relevant for
your international audience butif you do want to do an event on
International Trail Day in June, it's a good time to apply for
a grant.
It's about celebratingvolunteers, it's about bringing
people out to your trail.
So we're helping you to createan opportunity to celebrate your
local trail.
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Very good.
Now, stacey, are there mapsavailable that people can use to
see the upgrades, and are theyannually redone for any of the
changes in the trails that comeup?
Speaker 7 (38:31):
Yeah.
So we have an interactive mapthat is on our website.
It is updated weekly.
So if there's closures,rerouting, if there's new
sections that are open, tctrailall together, tctrailca is the
best place to go.
Our MOP is there.
Events are also there.
Our social media activations,like the Blas to Oz campaign,
(38:51):
are there.
If anybody is listening, Blasto Oz campaign you can also
enter to win some swag.
So Columbia Sportswear isgiving out some swag.
So is TransCanada Trail and thegreat Canadian sock company.
So it's a good time to engage,and we always love when people
take pictures.
So you know, go on the trail,take pictures, post it at
TransCanadaTrail and at TCTrail.
(39:13):
Hashtag us as well, and it's agreat way to engage.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Oh great, that's good .
So if people have morequestions, they can go to this
website, or if it's any moredetails and find out more
information.
This is where they can go andget all the information they
need about the TransCanadaTrailsin their section or Canada-wide
.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
So if you want to just give us those ones again
and how they might reach out, toyou if they wanted to speak to
you or someone or the website,sure.
Speaker 7 (39:41):
Yeah, so if you want to reach me, it's sdakin at
tctrailca.
Website is tctrailca as well.
And social media surprisesurprise, is at tctrail or at
TransCanadaTrail.
There is a French version, soall of this is available in
French.
So anybody who's listening in aFrench country or in the French
(40:01):
provinces across Canada, we dohave everything available
bilingual.
So the map is bilingual, as areall of our communications on
the website.
So we're open to everybody toengage.
Speaker 6 (40:13):
Well, thank you very much for taking the time today,
stacey, to inform us about theTransCanada Trail Network and
all the information about it.
I found it very interesting Ithink a lot of people will, and
it's just another way thatpeople can get out there and
enjoy all that's happening outthere under the canopy.
Thanks a lot, stacey, fortaking the time.
Speaker 7 (40:31):
Thank you have a great day.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
How did a small town sheet metal mechanic come to
build one of Canada's mosticonic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, Steve Nitzwicky,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
newest podcast, Diaries of aLodge Owner.
But this podcast will be morethan that.
Every week on Diaries of aLodge Owner, I'm going to
(41:17):
introduce you to a ton of greatpeople, share their stories of
our trials, tribulations andinspirations, Learn and have
plenty of laughs along the way.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along
trying to figure out how tocatch a bass and we both decided
one day we were going to be ontelevision doing a fishing show.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more
fishing than it was.
Punching you so confidently,you said hey, pat, have you ever
eaten a drum?
Find Diaries of a Lodge Ownernow on Spotify, apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcast.
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right Every Thursday,Ang and I will be right here in
your ears bringing you a brandnew episode of Outdoor Journal
Radio.
Now, what are we going to talkabout for two hours every week?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors From athletes.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth
and Turk and all the Russianswould go fishing To scientists.
But now that we're reforesting-and everything.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It's the perfect transition environment for life.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
(01:36):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by Indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest use, testimonials and
(01:59):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession and I now
spend my life dedicated toimproving the lives of others
through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of this strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld world.
(02:26):
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to natureand under the canopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode and hopefully we
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy, we can inspire a fewmore people to live their lives
(02:47):
under the canopy Well.
As always, I want to thank allour guests here in Canada, our
listeners in Canada and theStates and throughout the world,
in Switzerland and Ghana andTrinidad and Tobago, and, of
course, all those ones in theBahamas, and we really
appreciate you listening to ourprogram, because without our
listeners we wouldn't be there.
And, as always, if you have anyquestions or anything that
(03:09):
you'd like to hear about a showor suggestions that reach out to
us, we'd be more than happy tosee what we can do.
And I got to tell you thismorning I was out with a usual
with the Chocolate Lab, bensonGunner, and it was a bit cool.
Some pretty uh, quite a bit ofsnow out.
The wind, wind was prettystrong, so we were walking
through the bush and of courseyou're going through and you're
(03:30):
seeing all the broken branchesfrom the the um, the trees
because of the strong winds andthe fresh coyote tracks that
were out there, and sometimes Isee a pair and sometimes I see a
single, which usually indicatesyou're kind of pairing up, but
we're're seeing turkey tracksand a bunch of other stuff and I
know when I got to the studiothis morning I could see fresh
rabbit tracks in the snow alongthe parking area and I imagine
(03:52):
they're coming to get a bit ofthe salt, but hard to say.
It's interesting to see, and atminus 13, they're doing what
they can to get warm.
But we got a great guest today.
That's going to let us knowsome of the details, and welcome
to the program.
Stacey, tell us a bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 7 (04:08):
Hi, jerry, thank you for having me.
My name is Stacey Dakin.
I've been the Chief ProgramOfficer at the TransCanada Trail
since August of last year, soI'm just shy of six months.
My journey to the TransCanadaTrail has been shaped by a
passion for bringing peopletogether and creating meaningful
impact in communities acrossthe country, so I'm really
(04:28):
excited to be here with you andtalk about all things trail.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Yeah, very good.
Now whereabouts are youpersonally?
Whereabouts do you live, stacey?
Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 7 (04:37):
So I grew up in the greater Montreal area, so not
far from downtown.
My home and office right noware located on the unceded lands
of the Kanakehake, which isabout 20 minutes east of
downtown Montreal in Quebec, andI'm about a 10 minute walk from
the nearest section of theTrans-Canada Trail that goes
through Longueuil, longueuil,quebec, near Parc de la Cité,
(05:01):
which is a great park here nearhome.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Bien, now, I'm glad you mentioned that and maybe you
know my reference.
But whenever I ask my wifeDiane where she would like to go
out for dinner and her responseis Gibby's, do you know Gibby's
?
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Yes, downtown Montreal, in the old port, the
old section of Montreal.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
Exactly, it's an old monastery that had been
transferred into a restaurant.
So she always says and ofcourse we're just outside
Toronto, when do you want to gofor dinner?
Gibby's is the number oneresponse I get.
That's good.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
That's a little far for a dinner right About five
and a half six hours drive fromeach other.
Speaker 6 (05:39):
Well, I did it.
Once she had a special birthdaycoming up and I told her.
I said, okay, look, I said, andI called her work and I said
she needs to morrow off why?
And I said, well, it's herbirthday and I'm doing something
.
So we got up and she got homefrom work I said come on, pack a
quick bag and we're going.
(05:59):
We went down the train stationand took a train to Montreal and
went out for supper at Gibby'sand came back the next day.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
Yeah, and probably when you were walking nearby
Gibby's you were on theTrans-Canada Trail, because we
have a starting point of thetrail.
A trailhead is right near therestaurant.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Oh, really Well, tell us a bit about that, okay, but
first of all tell us a bit aboutthe Trans-Canada Trail, then
let's get right into yourspecialty.
Speaker 7 (06:25):
Yeah, so the trail is a series of 600 interconnected
trail sections that stretch fromcoast to coast to coast in
Canada.
So from the Atlantic to thePacific Ocean, from the Arctic
Ocean down to the US border,there's 29,000 kilometers that
are connected.
That's the trail system itself.
And then there's theTransCanada Trail Organization,
(06:45):
who I work for.
It's a national charity thatprovides funding, technical
support, tools and resources tothose 600 trail groups and
others in the trail sector aswell, to make sure that the
trail is maintained.
We provide tools and resources,we help to advocate for trails
in Canada as well and, yeah,we're really there to support
(07:09):
the trail groups that own andmanage those sections of the
trail.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
Okay, so there's 600 sections you mentioned, with
29,000 kilometers of trail.
Yeah, now is it one continuoustrail all across Canada, or do
they connect some way, shape orform?
Speaker 7 (07:25):
Yeah, so when you look at a map it does go from
one end to the other.
There is a, there is, it's nota linear line like the
Trans-Canada Highway.
So those who have been on thehighway you would you'd see it's
a little bit more of a straightline across the country,
through mountains and valleys,as straight a line as it could
be.
The trail system.
It's a little bit more uniquein that we can't be on all the
(07:47):
highways.
On the streets.
We really promote greenway.
We want to be able to be insafe areas so that we're not on
motorized trails.
So the trails can go throughmountains, they can go through
lakes and then we have, you know, trail sections that go through
cities.
So your local trail that'sdowntown Toronto, let's say,
(08:10):
also part of TransCanada Trail,although it's not in a forest or
in a lake.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
Okay, so you mentioned it starts just around
O'Montreal, somewherewhereabouts, and which way does
it go from there?
Speaker 7 (08:27):
East west both.
So the trailhead in Montreal isactually just the trailhead,
it's just a point of trailsection we do start.
Kilometre zero is Cape Spear inNewfoundland, and then it goes
all the way to Victoria wherethere's another point zero
kilometre.
So those would be the end toends.
And then there's a point northin the Arctic and another point
south in Sudbury, ontario.
So there's 4.0 kilometersstarting points.
(08:49):
So you can start wherever youwant.
But if you really wanted to go,we suggest to go west to east.
A lot of people have done eastto west.
That seems to be the normal one.
You want to follow the sun, butwith the winds, you know the
winds come from the west.
A lot of people who've done thetrail have said you know what
you.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
Well, do you keep track of?
How would you know whetherpeople usually go from east to
west or west to east.
Do they report, or is theresome way, or is there some kind
of monitoring for that sort ofthing?
Speaker 7 (09:20):
So I wouldn't say that there's a monitoring like a
formal monitoring.
We do have a lot of people who,a lot of people.
You know there's a certainamount of people that will want
to walk 29,000 kilometers.
There is a movie that wasreleased by Deanne Whalen, her
adventures on the Trans-CanadaTrail 500 Days in the Wild.
You could take a look at this.
At the time there was 24,000kilometers.
(09:42):
She did it from east all theway to the west.
So that's a beautiful story towatch about the Trans-Canada
Trail.
So monitoring it, you knowpeople will let us know hey, I'm
doing the trail.
Can you tell me where?
You know if I'm in this section?
Where might I stay?
Is there any closures?
Can I have food delivered,clothes delivered?
They will reach out to us forthat sort of thing.
But on a day-to-day basis we'reable to work with some.
(10:10):
We look at cell phone data sowe're able to see how many
people come onto the trail,where they come into, where
they're hanging out, and we'reable to do some analysis in that
way.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Okay.
So tell us, stacey, when youtalk to a canoeist, there are
certain level of routes atcertain, you know depends on how
tough the rapids are.
For there's kind of beenbeginner levels to advanced
levels where you don't want topeople who haven't had a lot of
rapid experience.
Is it the same sort of thingwith trails where you're going
(10:37):
to get different levels oftrails, where it's pretty remote
and, hey, you better have someexperience.
You got to know what you'redoing, you're into some road,
you're not going to have anycontact with people for an
extended period of time, andthat sort of thing?
Or is it pretty much there's alot of avenues to exit if people
are inexperienced and want toget out of the rain or the
weather or something along thoselines?
Speaker 7 (10:59):
So definitely 29,000 kilometers.
There's a lot that is rural andremote and that you're off the
grid.
So on our website, tctrailca,we do havea map.
You can go in and take a lookat the map.
It will provide you informationon each of the sections of the
trail.
So the 600 sections areidentified and labeled on that
(11:20):
map.
You'll be able to see what areyou allowed to do there.
You know hiking, walking,cycling.
It'll flag for you if there'ssnowmobiles, atvs on the road as
well.
There are many sections thatyou have access to bathrooms,
parking lots that you can comein and out on a day, a day hike,
you know no problem.
But there are definitelysections where it's a little bit
(11:41):
more remote.
You would need to beexperienced or, you know, be
ready for that experience.
Have a tent with you, have foodperhaps.
You know lots of water and theright gear.
So definitely there aresections that are a little bit
more for the adventuresome folks, but there's plenty of sections
that you can go with your kids,your parents, bring your dog,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
So you brought up something.
When I was Minister of NaturalResources, I did some research
on getting females women intofishing, and can you imagine
what the number one question wasfor women going fishing?
Speaker 7 (12:18):
Yes, is there a bathroom?
Speaker 6 (12:20):
Exactly when do I go to the bathroom?
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
You brought that up.
You mentioned about bathroomsIs that there's that sort of
facilities along some of thesesections where it isn't
identified.
So if somebody wants to be surethat, okay, we can walk this
section because we have accessto that at that time.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Yeah.
So, like we don't own theTrans-Canada Trail, doesn't own
and operate the trail system.
We are the stewards of theconcept of the Pan-Canadian
Trail.
So we do work with the localgroups, which could be
government agencies you knowwhether it's local government or
federal or they could bevolunteer groups.
So it really depends on thecapacity of that group to be
(12:57):
able to afford amenities.
So you know, a federal park forsure you'll have washrooms, you
might even have showers, you'llhave lots of the amenities that
you're looking for, whereas atrail section that is owned and
operated by a volunteer groupmight be a little bit more rough
and rural.
So you might want to take thatinto account when you're picking
your trail route.
What is it that you need?
Do you need bathrooms?
(13:18):
Do you need accessiblebathrooms?
So not just any bathroom, butif you happen to be in a
wheelchair or you have issueswith sight or with hearing, do
you need accommodations thatsome of these trails?
Some trails have it, sometrails don't.
So you might want to look intothat before you head out.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
So sections of the trail are wheelchair accessible.
Speaker 7 (13:40):
Sections of the trail are wheelchair accessible
exactly.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
Okay, and now are there paved?
Because I know in Oshawa we'vegot the Oshawa Trail which runs
basically from the north end ofthe city down right down to Lake
Ontario.
It's all paved by the city.
Are there paved trails thatinclude in this or not?
Speaker 7 (13:57):
Oh yeah, lots of the trail sections are paved and
that's what we've given in ourfiscal years are the same as the
federal government.
So 2023 to 2024, we gave out$5.3 million.
We're on track to give aboutthe same Part of the funding
that we give is forinfrastructure development.
It is for looking ataccessibility, so modifying your
(14:18):
trail to make it moreaccessible.
So, for sure, there are trailsthat are a little bit wider, so
that you can accommodate walkers, cyclists, those who might be
in wheelchairs, or differenttypes of transportation.
We do have bathrooms that havebeen modified, have bathrooms
that have been modified.
We are looking at apps as well.
That, you know, for those whoare vision impaired.
They can maybe have afacilitated experience through
(14:41):
an app that will, you know, tellthem what's on the trail, what
are they seeing.
So we are developing thosetypes of partnerships to make
the trail more accessible, andnot just physically accessible
but, you know, mentallyaccessible.
What are the activities, whatare the tourist opportunities on
the trails, to make it moreinteractive for folks.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
Interesting and I recall, quite a while ago, my
son and his friend, I took themto horseback riding, which was
through Algonquin Park, okay,and it was an outfitter that had
access and was allowed to dotrails through the park.
(15:20):
And what I'm getting to is,when you're hiking through a
park, do you need to get passesto go through the park to hike
the trail through the park?
Speaker 7 (15:28):
So there are certain sections of the trail absolutely
you need to pay and those aregenerally, you know, park,
provincial parks or federalparks that have a fee.
You do need to get a license oryou know whatever they provide
you, but you do need to pay thatfee.
Most trail sections are freeunless there's a designated
activity that day or thatweekend that you need to pay an
(15:49):
entrance fee.
But yeah, in some cases theprovincial parks, federal parks,
for sure you have to pay.
Otherwise it's generally free.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Oh, interesting Now, Stacey, I had to recall way back
in the probably late 80s, 90s Iwas over at a friend's place at
Elmont, ontario, and hisneighbor said he was heading out
because he was getting prepared, because he was going to
Scotland to hike the connectingtrails in Scotland and through
(16:20):
the highlands.
That was their holiday.
They went there and did thatsort of thing and it was so that
you could hike from one sectionof the trail.
You stayed in a small town andthey had beds and breakfasts or
pubs and that sort of thingswhere they did town.
And they had beds andbreakfasts or pubs and that sort
of things where they did, andthen they would hike another
section through the ScottishHighlands to another community
and they could look at thedistance.
He was training himself with apack and walking stick to make
(16:42):
sure that he could do gettingready to do it all.
Is that the same sort of thingthat is potentially here, that
people who are hiking it canlook and see that there's a bed
and breakfast or accommodationsat one section and then get
meals and then continue on?
Speaker 7 (17:00):
Yeah, so we're working with some of our
partners on this.
So Destination Canada is anexample, and a lot of the local
destination management offices.
So Canada biggest draw inCanada is nature and Indigenous
culture.
That is something that we know.
People will come to Canada inorder to enjoy the outdoors and
immerse themselves in Indigenouscultures.
(17:20):
A lot of that is done on trails, and so we are working with
Destination Canada and someother offices to designate some
of our trails as exceptionaltrail experiences where you'll
have access to restaurants, ahotel or an Airbnb, a bed and
breakfast.
Along the way there might be anopportunity to have your bags
(17:40):
transported.
So if you're walking, it's alittle bit like a Camino
experience in Spain.
If you're on a bicycle, youhave access to pump your tires,
do a repair if need be.
We have an example here, notfar from my home in Quebec the
Véloroute Gourmande, which isthe cycle route I'm translating
here quick on the fly cycleroute for the foodies.
(18:01):
So you can, you know, ride yourbike from Montreal all the way
to Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu,which is about 40 kilometers,
and along the way you have someplaces to go for good food and
perhaps some wine and beers andother local foods and food.
(18:22):
It could be artisan items aswell.
You have access to that alongthe road Very interesting.
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(20:19):
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Okay.
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So it kind of piqued my interest and I thought I
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(21:10):
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Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
Or six cups of tea?
Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
Stacey, what kind of uses youmentioned about hiking, walking,
cycling, but is there horsebackriding, atv, snowmobile uses
and things like that along thetrail as well?
Speaker 7 (22:46):
Yeah, so we really prioritize greenway and water
routes so you know safedestinations.
There are some trails that youknow ATVs and snowmobiles are on
, so snowmobiles in the winteris a little bit easier on the
trails.
Atvs can be a little bit moredifficult, just in terms of
potential damage to the trails,but also if you're walking or if
(23:09):
you're on a bike in an ATV.
It's not ideal, it is doableand there are many rural areas
in the country where ATVs cannotbe avoided.
But, yeah, most of it is hiking, walking, cycling,
cross-country skiing,snowshoeing, horseback riding,
as you said, and there are othersections that, yeah, there are
motorized vehicles there as well.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
Right, I recall a friend of mine bless his soul,
doug.
He took his snowmobile up onthe snowmobile trail north of
Osh where he hooked up on PortPerry Wayne.
He was riding a snowmobile andcame across a round bend and all
of a sudden there was a dogsled team in the middle of the
trail and he had to go into thebush to get out of the way.
(23:53):
How do you?
Is there kind of stuff likeone-way stuff or no-use
motorized vehicles and stuff inorder to assist with things like
that, just to give a comfortlevel when people are using the
trails?
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Yeah, so if you do go on the website and look at the
map, tctrailca, you will be ableto see sections where it's
motorized and non-motorized.
So that's the first thing is doyour homework before you leave.
For sure, there's lots ofsignage everywhere.
We do try and encourage theone-way direction, so, like a
car, you're driving one way onthe right side and the others
(24:24):
are coming at you on the leftside.
Some of the trails are narrow.
Sometimes there's damage thathappens due to climate change,
or just a tree has fallen and sothat you have to be right
around it.
Um, but yeah, you have to becareful when you're on a trail,
especially nowadays.
There's also, uh, bicycles thatare electric and they're going
much faster than a regularbicycle or someone who's walking
(24:48):
, so you have to be be careful.
There's a lot of requests inlarge of the trails, right, so I
think the standard was six feet.
Now we're looking sometimes ateight to 10 feet across.
That just makes it wider, makesit easier for people to walk
side by side.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
And do you chip bark a lot of these trails wherever
it's possible, or do you putthings down to deter growth in
those areas?
And how do you maintain allthat sort of stuff?
Speaker 7 (25:11):
Yeah, so that's really the local trail groups
that will maintain that.
There's all sorts of techniquesyou can put logs along the side
, you can put railings, you tryand clean out the rubbish, the
growth.
I should say not the rubbish,but the growth that's happening.
So you know there's a bigvolunteer movement behind this
(25:34):
right to manage and operate thetrails.
There's lots of cleanup that'sdone in the spring where, after
the winter and then all throughthe summer, as as more and
people, more and more people usetrails, there's more and more
need to maintain and upkeep thetrails.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
Okay, yeah, that's a good thing, um, the more usage
and it.
And it was interesting becauseI know I built a trail in a
section in Oshawa.
I worked with Noel Hutchisonwho was the Parks and Rec
Director for the city of Oshawa,and we took him and walked him
down and we showed him and itgets extensively used.
(26:07):
It's through part of the cityproperty.
It's only a small section maybe, maybe um a quarter mile sort
of thing, uh, but it's widelyused by a lot of people.
And there was somebody out thismorning on it with me as well
and she was taking out, uh,peanuts for the wild turkeys
that are in the area there now,cause they've kind of moved in.
(26:29):
But, um, and to make sure thatit's all taken care of, we work
with a number of groups to chipbark it and I put up a lot of
rails so that it wouldn't washaway and things like that.
But it takes quite a bit ofmaintenance to keep it good and
we try to do that to the best ofour ability.
And it's great to have thesesmall things in small areas like
that, because a lot of peopleuse them just as, kind of to get
(26:52):
back to nature a little bit,which is always good, and I
enjoy my my morning time doingthat very much with my dog,
gunnar.
But are there canoeing sectionsof a trail as well, through
lakes and rivers and stuff likethat?
Speaker 7 (27:04):
Yeah, there's several , several sections that are
kayak canoe friendly.
They generally we we havelanding points and for people to
come in they can either parktheir cars if they need to.
If someone's doing a longstretch, they'll have a spot
that they can camp for the night.
But there are sections that area little bit more rural as well
, so you'd have to figure outyour portage route and plan for
(27:25):
that accordingly.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
Right, that's good.
So who maintains?
There's various groupsthroughout all the trail that
maintain the trail and youmentioned about a tree coming
down and blocking it and isthere places where this section
is maintained by them?
If you see anything, notifythis group in order to help
maintain it.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Yeah.
So the 600 groups across Canada, which include the volunteer
groups up until government.
They're really the ones who own, operate and manage the local
trails.
We often will get an email or aphone call to say, hey, there's
damage, you know, there's abridge that is washed out,
there's a culvert that hascollapsed, there's a tree,
(28:05):
there's some erosion.
We will get those calls, butthen we'll work with the local
trail group to have it fixed.
So there's the before, duringand after these types of things,
right?
So how can we build trails thatavoid these types of
occurrences?
That's one.
Once it happens, how do wereroute so that the user is able
to continue their voyagewithout damaging nature
(28:27):
unnecessarily?
So some people, if it's broken,they'll find their own path and
make their own path what wewant to see.
Can we address the rerouteright away?
Can we fix it and address it?
And then, if we have to rebuild, let's say a bridge has fallen
down, are we building backbetter Like?
Are we making it so it's moresustainable, it can withstand
climate change and even theamount, the volume of people
(28:49):
that are going on the trailversus when perhaps that bridge
was built, you know, 10, 15, 20years ago, mm-hmm.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
Yeah, I remember John Roswell, bless his soul, was an
engineer.
He was also the mayor of SaultSte Marie in Ontario and he was
commissioned by I'm not sure ifit was a group, a snowmobile
club or the province, and he wasbuilding and engineering a
snowmobile trail bridge to goover one of the rivers south of
(29:19):
the Sioux, actually south ofSudbury and you can see it there
.
And I got into discussion withhim and he said oh, it was such
a nightmare because weoriginally designed the bridge
for snowmobiles, but then wefound out that they were going
to use this as part of a trailsection and walking is a
different vibration of trail ona large span bridge like this,
(29:44):
and so we had to redesign it toaccommodate walking and
snowmobiles.
I had no idea that there wasthat kind of extent of
engineering to take place, thatwalking would have a different
impact than snowmobiles, simplybecause of the vibration that
went with walking for an impactin snowmobiles, simply because
of the vibration that went withwalking.
Now, stacey, we had the BruceTrail on and over time, a lot of
(30:05):
the routes change a lot oftimes because they're through
private property and landowners,and landowners change and so do
their expectations orutilization?
Does the routes change overtime and where do people find
notification if they do?
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, so definitely the routes will need to be
adjusted due to closures,special activities, weather
events and, like you said, sale,sale of land, transfer of
ownership.
So our efforts are really aboutcollaborating with local groups
to open more greenways.
So if a trail closes, how canwe rebuild it in a green way so
that it is for non-motorized use?
(30:36):
We want to.
It's about partnership, right?
So the notion of building atrail that might hit a private
land, an Indigenous community, amunicipality in the federal
park, all in the span of 10 or15 kilometers, is something that
we have to work on daily.
So it is collaboration.
It's making sure the vision isclear of what we're trying to
(30:58):
achieve and look at it for thegreater good, and greater good
is really having trails thatpeople can go out on, that they
can exercise on.
You know it's good for theirmental health, and so we really
try to focus on that and seewhat can we do together to make
sure that a trail remains, evenif it changes direction.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
Okay.
So, and I know one of thelandowners concerns is liability
for trails going through theirproperty and if somebody gets
injured on that, what happens insituations like that?
Speaker 7 (31:29):
So all of the trail owners and operators have to
have liability insurance.
In order to be part of theTransCanada Trail, it's a key
element.
So if something happens on thetrail, we do have liability
insurance.
To make sure this is theTransCanada Trail specifically,
there is liability insurancethat allows us to deal with that
.
Speaker 6 (31:49):
Okay, yeah, because that's some of the biggest
concerns that I heard.
When new owners take in, thefirst thing is oh, if somebody
gets injured, I'm liable.
And that's not quite the case.
You've got all that taken careof to assure that the trail
continues on to be the trailright, Exactly.
So how did the trail start?
How did this whole processbegin?
Speaker 7 (32:10):
So the idea of a nationwide trail started with
Pierre Camus, a Quebecer, andBill Pratt, an Albertan.
So they were in charge of thecross-country celebration for
Canada's 125th anniversary in1992, where this idea for a
Trans-Canada Trail system wasborn From then it was all about,
you know, national unityconnecting people to nature and
(32:34):
one another.
The organization, soTrans-Canada Trail itself was
officially formed in December1992.
You know, national unityconnecting people to nature and
one another.
The organization, so transcanada trail itself was
officially formed in december1992.
After that, we had 25 years ofgrassroots work finding donors,
securing government funding andworking with local groups to
connect the trail section.
So the the connection of thetrail idea 1992, connections
(32:54):
actually happened in 2017.
So not that long ago that wewere connected from coast to
coast to coast.
And since 2017, it's reallyabout growing the network with
new sections, supporting thetrail groups to make sure that
we maintain connection but thatwe also have safe trails, usable
trails that everybody loves.
And right now, 29,000kilometers.
(33:15):
We have a goal of about 30,000kilometers by 2027.
And daily we get calls fromtrail groups saying, hey, we
want to be part of this.
It's seen as a nationaltreasure, right?
We're the longest multi-usetrail in the world, and so it
really is something to be proudof.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
That's a good thing and hopefully people listening
to this will gain some knowledgeabout it and start to utilize
it.
So is there a cost to use thetrail or certain sections of it
and things like that, Stacey?
Speaker 7 (33:48):
Yeah, as we discussed a little bit before, it's
completely free.
Generally it's free, other thanif you're going through a
national or provincial park.
Generally it's free, other thanif you're going through a
national or provincial park andthen sometimes there are
activities happening on thetrail that weekend or that week
that you might have to pay for.
But generally, yes, it's free.
Speaker 6 (34:03):
Okay, and so what kind of activities take place on
the trail?
Is there seminars, lectures?
I know I had some mushroomgroups on that.
Take mushroom group out thattalk about mycelium and the
mycological experience on someof these nature trails around.
Is that the sort of thing thattakes place, or is there?
Do you know of many?
Speaker 7 (34:23):
yeah, so exactly what you, what you just described is
a typical event that couldhappen on a trail.
We did have a large-scale eventthat happened not far from the
Ottawa section of theTrans-Canada Trail back in the
fall of 2024.
So we had partnered with theWorld Trails Network to host the
World Trails Conference here inOttawa.
This was a big milestone, as itwas the first time that the
(34:46):
World Trails Conference was heldin North America.
It brought in 400 participantsfrom 35 different countries,
including trail groups acrossCanada and around the globe from
35 different countries,including trail groups across
Canada and around the globe andwe were able to share knowledge.
We discussed collaboration andconnection with the global trail
community.
Beyond big events like this, weactively engage with trail
(35:06):
groups in various ways.
So we'll speak at conferences,participate in seminars and
support trail initiativeswhenever possible.
So whenever the trailinitiative is, it could be a day
of cleaning, it could be avolunteer recognition event.
There's also trail care days ortrail care events.
They're held on InternationalTrails Day, which is the first
(35:26):
Saturday in June annually, andthen, like as an organization,
the staff and our board memberswill attend trail openings,
funding announcements,celebrations for new signage,
cultural features or new tourismexperiences along the trail,
and those are usually localevents that we will come in and
(35:47):
participate or help to fund.
But generally speaking, on thetrail most events are organized
and hosted locally.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
Very good.
So what's the busiest part ofthe trail?
Most events are organized andhosted locally.
Very good.
So what's the busiest part ofthe trail?
Is there a province that hasmore activity, or is it?
Um, is there a destination, onethat everybody's got to do this
, the cabot trail sort of thing?
And uh, is there places?
Uh, where's the busiest part incanada that gets the most
utilization?
Speaker 7 (36:11):
well, I would say the big cities are probably the
ones with the biggest usage,right, right.
So, like a downtown, vancouver,toronto, montreal have the, you
know, the most people that areon them.
But we do have popular trailsin Quebec, near Bay, st Paul.
We have on Prince Edward Islandas well, there's trails that
are pretty popular, and I wasjust in Banff last week so we
(36:34):
were on the Bow Valley Trail.
That was, you know, fantasticand beautiful.
So every city has their ownunique trails.
They're, all you know,relatively popular.
For sure the most popular wouldbe the city trails.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
Oh, very good, and so all year long.
So you're just on a trail outin Alberta.
Was it a Chinook coming throughor was it pretty cold?
Speaker 7 (36:57):
I think we were lucky to have a semi-Chinook, so it
was about zero to minus fivedegrees Celsius, which is pretty
warm, I would say, for Calgaryand Banff.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
Good, good.
Now, are there any seminars orconferences or things?
As you mentioned?
A number of groups and thingslike that come to mind that
you're aware of, that peoplemight be interested in.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Well, right now we're running a campaign so this
might be of interest to yourlisteners the Blahs to Oz
campaign, and you can check itout on social media.
Blahs to Oz campaign is reallyabout getting people onto the
trail in the winter months.
So when it's cold and it'sgloomy out and you really just
want to, you know, huddle undera blanket and have soup.
(37:40):
We're encouraging people to gooutside, enjoy the beauty of
Canadian nature, take a walk, godo some snowshoeing.
You can do some cross-countryskiing, so that's a big campaign
that we're doing right now.
We did launch recently theTrail Care Funding Program.
So if there are groups that areinterested in and it's for
(38:03):
Canadian-based organizations, sonot necessarily relevant for
your international audience butif you do want to do an event on
International Trail Day in June, it's a good time to apply for
a grant.
It's about celebratingvolunteers, it's about bringing
people out to your trail.
So we're helping you to createan opportunity to celebrate your
local trail.
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Very good.
Now, stacey, are there mapsavailable that people can use to
see the upgrades, and are theyannually redone for any of the
changes in the trails that comeup?
Speaker 7 (38:31):
Yeah.
So we have an interactive mapthat is on our website.
It is updated weekly.
So if there's closures,rerouting, if there's new
sections that are open, tctrailall together, tctrailca is the
best place to go.
Our MOP is there.
Events are also there.
Our social media activations,like the Blas to Oz campaign,
(38:51):
are there.
If anybody is listening, Blasto Oz campaign you can also
enter to win some swag.
So Columbia Sportswear isgiving out some swag.
So is TransCanada Trail and thegreat Canadian sock company.
So it's a good time to engage,and we always love when people
take pictures.
So you know, go on the trail,take pictures, post it at
TransCanadaTrail and at TCTrail.
(39:13):
Hashtag us as well, and it's agreat way to engage.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Oh great, that's good .
So if people have morequestions, they can go to this
website, or if it's any moredetails and find out more
information.
This is where they can go andget all the information they
need about the TransCanadaTrailsin their section or Canada-wide
.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
So if you want to just give us those ones again
and how they might reach out, toyou if they wanted to speak to
you or someone or the website,sure.
Speaker 7 (39:41):
Yeah, so if you want to reach me, it's sdakin at
tctrailca.
Website is tctrailca as well.
And social media surprisesurprise, is at tctrail or at
TransCanadaTrail.
There is a French version, soall of this is available in
French.
So anybody who's listening in aFrench country or in the French
(40:01):
provinces across Canada, we dohave everything available
bilingual.
So the map is bilingual, as areall of our communications on
the website.
So we're open to everybody toengage.
Speaker 6 (40:13):
Well, thank you very much for taking the time today,
stacey, to inform us about theTransCanada Trail Network and
all the information about it.
I found it very interesting Ithink a lot of people will, and
it's just another way thatpeople can get out there and
enjoy all that's happening outthere under the canopy.
Thanks a lot, stacey, fortaking the time.
Speaker 7 (40:31):
Thank you have a great day.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
How did a small town sheet metal mechanic come to
build one of Canada's mosticonic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, Steve Nitzwicky,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
newest podcast, Diaries of aLodge Owner.
But this podcast will be morethan that.
Every week on Diaries of aLodge Owner, I'm going to
(41:17):
introduce you to a ton of greatpeople, share their stories of
our trials, tribulations andinspirations, Learn and have
plenty of laughs along the way.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along
trying to figure out how tocatch a bass and we both decided
one day we were going to be ontelevision doing a fishing show.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more
fishing than it was.
Punching you so confidently,you said hey, pat, have you ever
eaten a drum?
Find Diaries of a Lodge Ownernow on Spotify, apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcast.
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