March 17, 2025 • 38 mins
Jerry Ouellette, former Ontario Minister of Natural Resources, and Mike Holland, who held the same position in New Brunswick, reveal how they navigated government systems to achieve meaningful conservation victories.
Jerry's innovative classroom hatchery program stands as a testament to creative problem-solving—targeting schools along waterways to transform potential polluters into stream stewards. By involving students in raising and releasing rainbow trout, he created both environmental improvements and a generation of conservation-minded citizens. Today, tens of thousands of rainbow trout return to these streams annually, a testament to how small, strategic interventions can yield remarkable results.
Mike Holland approached his ministerial role with similar pragmatism. After founding the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation, he leveraged his position to establish New Brunswick's first-ever turkey hunt—defying bureaucrats who had repeatedly deemed it impossible. His department became the only financially self-sustaining branch of government by recognizing conservation's economic potential alongside its biological importance.
The conversation shifts to the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation's remarkable journey from "two guys in a half-ton truck" to a national organization with chapters across the country. What makes this story particularly fascinating is how chapters thrive even in provinces without turkey hunting seasons, demonstrating a commitment to conservation that transcends specific species or activities. Their youth "hoot and shoot" programs teach comprehensive outdoor education, producing conservationists who now work professionally in natural resources.
Whether through classroom hatcheries, turkey habitat restoration, or youth mentorship, both leaders demonstrate that effective conservation requires connecting people with nature in meaningful ways. Their shared experiences offer a masterclass in turning passion into policy and obstacles into opportunities.
Ready to join the conservation movement? Visit CWTF.ca to find your local chapter and become part of this growing community dedicated to preserving our natural heritage.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Every Thursday, Ang and I will be right here in your
ears bringing you a brand newepisode of Outdoor Journal Radio
.
Now, what are we going?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
to talk about for two hours every week.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We're going to be talking to people from all
facets of the outdoors, fromathletes All the other guys
would go golfing Me, and Garthand Turk and all the Russians
would go fishing To scientists.
But now that we're reforesting,and everything.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
it's the perfect transmission environment for
limestone To chefs, If any gameisn't cooked properly marinated,
you will taste it.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are Outdoor.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
(01:36):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by Indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest use, testimonials and
(01:59):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession and I now
spend my life dedicated toimproving the lives of others
through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of this strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld world.
(02:26):
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Underthe Canopy podcast, I'm going
to take you along with me to seethe places, meet the people
that will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode and hopefully we
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
Okay, first of all I want tothank all my listeners, both in
(02:53):
Canada, the States around theworld, switzerland, trinidad,
tobago.
We really appreciate youlistening to the podcast and, as
always, if you have anyquestions or comments or you
want to hear any shows, let usknow.
We'll see what we can do to getit on.
Sometimes it takes a bit oftime to find the experts, but I
got to tell you, when you havenumber one dinosaur experts on,
or the number one mycologistsaround the world and things like
(03:14):
that, we work at it to get itdone.
But today I've got a specialguest a former minister of
natural resources imagine thatfrom new brunswick, mike holland
.
Welcome to the program, mike.
Speaker 6 (03:23):
Good to be here.
It's always a pleasure to meetwith a former colleague in the
ministry.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Yeah, it's interesting, and I know now did
your file in New Brunswick?
Did it cover forestry as well?
Speaker 6 (03:35):
Yeah, it covered forestry, natural resources and
energy development is what theycalled it.
So it had forestry, crown lands, ministry, mining um, fishing
game, all of the wildlife, um, Ihad indigenous affairs as well,
okay, so basically anythingnatural resources.
Oh yeah, I had a hand on it.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
So very good, it was an awesome portfolio I loved it.
Yeah, it's.
Uh.
Well, I know in ontario used tosay it was the best ministry in
government.
Because you know, in innorthern ontario, um when, when
it didn't matter if you'restanding in a hospital or in a
school and government.
Because you know, in innorthern ontario, um when, when
it didn't matter if you'restanding in a hospital or in a
school and people asked youwhere you worked, you said the
ministry in ontario.
That meant ministry of naturalresources.
So absolutely, yeah, yeah,interesting stuff.
(04:15):
Uh, and how's the familiar?
How's the salmon doing theatlantics and well, I don't
think the atlantic salmon.
Speaker 6 (04:22):
They've got some real challenges in a lot of
different spots, wherever yousee them, Whether it be I mean,
New Brunswick is famous for itsAtlantic salmon.
The Miramichi River is historic, but even in areas like
Newfoundland and Labrador theEagle River in Labrador, the
Torrent River system innorthwestern Newfoundland
they've had some struggles andsome challenges as well.
(04:44):
You know, we've got a number ofdifferent things and everybody
thinks they've got the answer asto what the problem is, but I
think it's a collection ofissues that are creating some
significant problems for them.
I would certainly put them as aspecies that's In concern yeah,
of concern.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Yeah, atlantic's.
Now I don't know about yourself, but I am.
When I, when I was well priorto being minister in ontario
natural resources, um, I createda, developed a technology
myself.
I made classroom fish hatcheryprograms.
Well, that's awesome.
So, and for like 200, 250 bucks, um, we would take um fish, uh
(05:22):
equipment and rear in our casein about a dozen schools in
Oshawa, where I'm from, and thenI would do a whole session with
the kids.
So there was a video I'd supplythem.
It's called the Way of theTrout and it talks about the
life cycle and all the predatorsand things like that.
And then we would take eyed-upeggs and I'd take the kids down
to the stream.
I had groups like Kiwanis coverthe cost for busing and you can
(05:46):
tell when it's interesting whenthe parents are pushing the
kids out of the way to get infront to see what's going on.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Absolutely, that's a great field trip.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Yeah, so what we do is we go in with electroshocking
equipment and it kind of workslike a moth to light at night
and basically it looks like ametal detector and it's got a
grounding wire on the backpackthat you carry and you walk
through the water and you justwave this wand around and the
fish puts a little electriccurrent out.
(06:13):
The fish are drawn to it, andthen they get shocked and they
come up.
They just momentarily stun forjust a second, and that's when
netters grab them, and then weextract the eggs in the milt and
it goes back to a hatchery.
They blend it there and then weactually put the eggs in fish
aquariums and we do what'scalled a swim up hatchery.
So well, the eggs hatch,they're absorbing the yolk sacs
(06:34):
and once the yolk sacs areabsorbed, that's when they start
to feed, that's when we releasethem, because if you get a
couple thousand in a smallaquarium, they start going to
the bathroom.
Yeah, you start to getcontamination.
So, yeah, so we do asquamopatry, but the end result
is we put hundreds of thousandsof rainbow trout in oshawa creek
and a number of creeks in thearea.
Well, that's awesome, and wehave tens of thousands now
(06:54):
returning on an annual basis andthe results of it now right so
to me, but there was a littlebit of method to my madness as
well.
It's.
All the schools I targeted wereon the stream, so, rather than
throwing shopping carts and craplike that in the stream,
actually they saw value in itnow and so the kids started to
respect it.
Yeah, started, and possibly youknow stuff like that with
(07:15):
atlantic salmon or the atlanticsalmon foundation federation, I
think it is.
Yeah, asf, yeah that.
Uh, you know there's, there'sdifferent ways to go about it
and there is.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
I think that you know .
I'm inspired to hear you saythat, because in the maritime
region, I think it's incumbentupon groups like ASF or MSA, or
there's a few different groupsMSA is.
Miramichi Salmon Association.
Okay, that Miramichi Riversystem is historic.
I don't know if you've everfished it or not?
No, I haven't had the privilege,but it's well known and and the
returns have been dismal inthat area and and there's
(07:48):
there's groups and and uh,e-ngos that have put together
initiatives, private sector, uhfunding to to create, um,
exactly a situation like you'retalking about.
You know, pull, pull out, yeah,raise, and then, and then, at
the right time, uh put back intothe river system so that
they'll identify with and then,at the right time, put back into
the river system so thatthey'll identify with that and
then return.
The biggest issue, of courseand I'm talking to, maybe,
(08:12):
preachers of the choir butgovernments usually become the
sticking block or bureaucracies,or bureaucracies within them.
Yeah, I mean, I worked with DFO, I was a provincial minister,
but working with the FederalDepartment of Fisheries and
Oceans.
I think that we need to work tostrengthen that relationship,
because DFO has two differentriver systems in the province of
New Brunswick.
What's allowable in one is notallowable in the other, and
(08:34):
sometimes common sense andbiology doesn't.
It's an arbitrary line that'sdrawn.
So I think we need to bringcommon sense and tear down those
bureaucracies and organizationslike, well, the Canadian Wild
Turkey Federation, atlanticSalmon Federation it doesn't
matter whether you're hunting ora fishing organization.
I like Toronto Sportsman Show.
I like venues like this becausewe need to align more Right as
(08:57):
united voices versus fracturedentities.
We can get a whole lot moredone.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Right entities, we can get a whole lot more done,
right, yeah, and to me, what Itry to do is to reinstitute some
pride in the classrooms alongthe stream and then give those
kids some encouragement, and Iknow quite a few of the schools
actually developed fishing clubsand things like that as a
result.
So kids got into fishing andthey appreciate it.
But the result is right nowwe're at the Toronto Sportsman
(09:24):
Show and it's basically aboutthe second week in March.
By the end of this month, ifyou were to come down, you would
see tens of thousands ofrainbow trout coming up the
Oshawa Stream.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And it's great to see, and partof those kids are all part of
that and they have a pride in it.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
Now so they help with the environment.
Well, you said something rightthere.
Not only is it a pride in thewild resource, but it translates
to garbage not being like.
People are taking thatseriously.
So that's an initiative thathas consequences, intended or
unintended, that are beneficial.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Yeah, so there's all kind of stuff.
So yeah, I know because I'm abig Atlantic fan.
Now you work with a buddy ofmine, the post company of the
outdoor radio journal, ang.
He's not a big Atlantic fan.
Now you work with a buddy ofmine, the post company of the
outdoor radio journal, ang.
He's not a big Atlantic fan inOntario, but I was the one when
I was minister that started theprogram here in Ontario for
bringing Atlantics back in and Iknow that in the classroom
(10:21):
hatchery program we reared somebrowns as well.
Brown trout but rainbows werethe easiest because it was the
time of the year that kids whenthey're in school and it was
interesting and I used to go tocheck and I remember one guy he
had signs because it was in thelibrary.
No, the eggs have not hatchedyet.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Because the kids were driving him crazy that they
cared so much about it.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Yeah, that's awesome.
But you know, as minister, wekind of encourage those people
to get involved and make adifference just like you by
being the minister Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So what were?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
some of your favourite files that you ended
up working with I was very proudof the fact that.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
See, I didn't intend to be a politician.
I've been involved in outdoororganizations since I was old
enough to be involved NewBrunswick Wildlife Federation,
canadian Wild Turkey Federation,Ducks Unlimited, delta
Waterfowl.
I grew up in the outdoors andat the age where I could be
involved, I always got involvedin these organizations and one
(11:13):
of the things I realized wasthat government initiatives were
required but very cumbersomeand many times got in the way of
common sense initiatives.
So I was a founder of theCanadian Wild Turkey Federation
and in New Brunswick we wantedto institute a turkey hunt.
Lots of dynamics to that.
But I saw an opportunity and Iknew who was going to become the
(11:35):
premier and I went to him and Isaid if we work together and I
run, I essentially made a dealwith him that he would give me
the opportunity to get under thehood of DNR natural resources
and do some things that havebeen needed to be done for a
long time.
So I was very proud of the fact.
I mean we accomplished over 300policy changes in a short
period of time.
We instituted, for the firsttime ever, a wild turkey hunt in
(11:58):
the province of New Brunswick.
It's entering its fifth year ofsuccess right now.
Where did you get your birdsfrom.
They were there.
Oh, they were there already.
They were there, yeah, oh,really, One of the contentious
issues was I mean, trap andtransfer is typically the way
that you'd do it.
Organizations were logjammingit and we weren't going to be
able to move forward with it.
So I said, what if we look atthe huntable populations that we
(12:22):
have there now?
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
You've got to find a way to get around it.
Well, we faced a lot ofdifficulty with that, but it was
a very satisfying day when,prior to being elected, I was
told no, we can't do that.
But it felt pretty good on thefirst week when they said yes,
minister, we'll get right onthat, because it was a project
that I was committed to makinghappen and it was a way to do it
Very good.
I had to teach the staff how tothink in terms of possibilities
(12:45):
, though not the reason why wecan't well, you mentioned
teaching the staff, I mean.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
So I recall the same thing when I was minister and it
was the same thing.
We had a problem with deer,yeah, um, in a number of
wildlife management units wmusin ontario and so the
bureaucracy came in with a planto uh reduce the number of deer
in the areas.
The way they tell is by cropdamage and the number of car
accidents.
Yep, uh is the number onedetermining factor for how we
(13:13):
increase the harvest.
And I said, look, rather thanjust increase the numbers, why
don't we look at an economicstimulus?
What do you mean?
Because we're in the biologydepartment, we're not into
generating revenue 100%.
So I said, look, I said I gotto tell you I have a crew of 16
people, avid deer hunters, closefriends of mine, on and on.
(13:35):
I said, but not one of them hasa muzzleloader.
If we bring in a muzzleloaderseason, all of them are going to
buy muzzleloaders and stimulatethe economy.
And in that population right andthen so we got an extra season
and guess what?
There were 16 guys that all hadmuzzleloaders now yeah yeah.
So it stimulated a bit of theeconomy and it's a small
thinking like that.
So they said, well, what shouldwe do with licenses?
(13:58):
Should we just issue twolicenses per tag?
I said no, If somebody wants asecond tag, they can pay for it.
They can pay for it.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Right we to so often marginalize the outdoor
community?
Society can take an anti-huntingapproach and sometimes we're to
blame for that because we feedthat stereotype of just being
drunks that shoot road signs outof the window of our truck,
right, but one of the things Iworked hard on was to raise the
(14:26):
bar about what legal, ethical,responsible outdoors people as
hunters are.
We're conservationists and, as aresult, not only are we here to
do the right thing, there'smoney there if you expand our
industry, yeah Right, likesalmon are having difficulty.
In the Miramichi, the MiramichiStriped Bass Association was
(14:46):
formed and created an event thatdoes $5 million worth of GDP in
a weekend for that one area.
So I had a great time trying toconvince my non-outdoors
colleagues and premier that wehad a benefit to the economy,
not just managing wildlife, notjust dealing with biologists,
(15:07):
but there's a bigger picturethere, where even the turkey
hunt.
The application for the drawled to that year an additional
five figures in income for theDepartment of Natural Resources.
When I left, one of the thingsI was proud about was that the
Department of Natural Resourceswas the only self-sustaining
department in the halls ofgovernment.
That's good, because we did alot of things that just made
(15:29):
sense.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Well, it's the same.
One of the things that I didbefore I was minister was I
brought elk to the province ofOntario.
Yes, I heard that.
Yeah, and so I worked a dealwith Rocky Mountain Elk
Foundation because they're theprocessing agent for Elk Island,
alberta, and we were able tobring them in in a number of
locations and that stimulated ahunt in those areas.
(15:52):
But there's all kind of viewingand all kind of other
opportunities that are nowutilized by other groups and
organizations.
So in my, I always wanted tohave elk in ontario, which we do
have now, yep, and so when wedo those things and get those
kind of results, it's kind ofsatisfying to some extent, but
most people have no idea howthey actually come about oh,
it's like the duck on the pond.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
It looks like there's nothing happening on the
surface, but the legs arebeating like the band underneath
the water.
Yeah, it takes a lot of work.
Every overnight success wasyears in the making, as they say
so, your Striped BassAssociation.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
so how is that in New Brunswick?
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Well, the Striped Bass Association, like the
Miramichi River, has a largepopulation of striped bass every
year.
It's a phenomenal fishery,right, and to give you a little
context, I grew up in that areaand so I'm 55 years old Never
saw a striped bass when I was ayoung fellow, going down to the
river Right With my cane, poleand lure.
(16:46):
I'm not Huckleberry Finn, butback in those days never saw it.
Hole and lure I'm notHuckleberry Finn, but back in
those days never saw it.
Then, within the last 10 or 15years, the cycle came back and
it was an amazing fishery andduring that time it was
something interesting.
My father told me oh yeah, Iremember fishing those when I
was a kid, really.
And then so I did a littledigging in it and they're a
native species to the riversystem, but it's cyclical.
(17:09):
How long is that cycle?
A generation, really?
Yeah, it's generational, andthen you'll see them dip and go
on.
So I think it's important and Ibelieve, as natural resource
stewards, we can't protect thesalmon at the expense of another
native species.
We can't exterminate salmon,considering their historic and
(17:31):
and invaluable nature, nevermind first nation significance.
On on salmon, we got to worktogether and find out where
those balances are and as thosestriped bass, uh cycles, move,
when they're at their highest,it will have an impact on salmon
, but we also have to make surethat we protect it so that it
doesn't go too low to the bottomRight and then, you know,
adversely affect that cycle Well.
(17:53):
Ange and Pete were big straightpassers.
They've been up to the.
I've seen them.
They've been in New Brunswick.
I've sat with them a few times.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I never fished with them on the boat but I've been
there when they were out fishing, and they love it Well you're
here in the economic generation,economics that are generated
from a lot of the activities.
There's one there that I workedwith, ange after I was out of
government, and people don'trealize this.
(18:20):
Carp fishing is huge in somecountries in the world.
Yeah, yeah, I know In Ontarioit's a garbage fish.
Yeah, I know Nobody wants towaste their time Not really.
Well, one lure, one hook for acarp is like $15 for one hook,
Just a hook.
And the rods are spendingthousands of dollars for these
$2,000, $3,000 for a carp rod,and when they hold these World
(18:43):
Carp Tournaments they bring inall kind of revenue.
So we worked and Ontario's nowset that it could potentially
host a world carp fishingtournament.
That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
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Speaker 5 (20:07):
And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga
Health and Wellness.
Okay, here we are in Lindsaywith Bill, who's actually?
This gentleman has given bloodover 230 times 233, yeah, 233,
and that's amazing, and you'vehad some success with Chaga.
Tell us what you're dealingwith and what you did and how
(20:29):
you what you used.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
Well, I had mild high blood pressure.
Mild high blood pressure wasn'tvery really high, but I was on
medication for a few years.
And then I quit drinking coffeeand started drinking this tea,
the combination tea, the greenand the Chaga Right, and my
medication is gone.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Your medication's gone, gone and you couldn't give
blood during the other times.
Yeah, I could.
Speaker 7 (20:55):
Oh you could, I could , yeah, yeah, so, but a few
times the machine kicked me out.
Oh yeah, so, but now it doesn'tanymore.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
So you think the green tea and the chaga helped
normalize your blood pressures?
Speaker 7 (21:08):
Oh yeah, oh very good , because it wouldn't be just
stopping coffee, it would haveto be something else.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
And that's the only thing you did differently.
Speaker 7 (21:14):
Yep, well, thank you very much for that, and my blood
pressure is probably that of a40-year-old man, and I'm 71.
Oh, very good.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Well, that's good to hear.
Thank you very much for that.
No problem, okay.
No problem, okay.
We interrupt this program tobring you a special offer from
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If you've listened this far andyou're still wondering about
(21:43):
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(22:25):
Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
So now, mikey, you're doingsomething a bit different.
You're with the Canadian.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
Wild Turkey Federation.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Tell us a bit about that.
How did you get started?
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Well, so this goes back historically.
I was a district director forthe National Wild Turkey
Federation, the US organization,when they were here in Canada.
I was the district director forNew Brunswick.
A good friend of mine, terrySmith, was the district director
for Nova Scotia and, as you mayknow or may not know, the
National Wild Turkey Federationrather quickly left the Canadian
(22:58):
landscape.
Yes, I know?
Yeah Well, I was promoting themat a fish and game dinner and
got out to the truck and got anemail that it was done.
So it was rapid when they hadto and they had to, and at the
end of the day, there's a numberof reasons for that.
But at the end of the day,there's a number of reasons for
that.
But at the end of the day, wewere stuck with an organization
that was making momentum and inNew Brunswick I knew that we
(23:19):
could get to the point of havinga turkey hunt.
And then so Terry and I talkedto each other that night and we
said, well, we're not going toquit.
So we formed I was going toform the New Brunswick Wild
Turkey Federation, terry wasgoing to form the Nova Scotia
Wild Turkey Federation and Terrywas going to form the Nova
Scotia Wild Turkey Federation.
And then we thought, well, whydon't we just look at combining
it?
We felt like Atlantic Canadawas where we were going to focus
on, but we thought, if we'regoing to do it, let's do it
(23:40):
across the country.
And so that was 11 years ago.
And then so we started that.
Terry Smith became thepresident, I was the vice
president.
We fleshed out a board ofdirectors and we started setting
up chapters all across thecountry and putting these
banquets together.
Of course, subsequently I hadthe vision of making sure that
we had turkeys hunting in NewBrunswick, so I took a detour to
(24:02):
become the Minister of NaturalResources.
Terry continued with theCanadian Wild Turkey Federation.
We've grown in areas we focus alot on youth.
We do hoot and shoot campaignswhere we bring youth to areas
where we can mentor them, teachthem all about environmental
responsibility what's a red oakleaf, what's a white oak leaf?
(24:23):
So we're not taking them outand just teaching them about
hunting.
We're teaching them aboutcarrying capacity of habitat.
We're teaching them all aboutwhat ideal areas are,
identifying turkeys,understanding them, safety for
hunting, particularly safety forhunting turkeys and then we
take them out and measure theiraptitude and if they have the
aptitude for it, we'll take themout and mentor them on a turkey
(24:44):
hunt.
Oh, very good.
We have three guys that I knowof now that are adults, that
came through that program, thatwork in the natural resources
field.
Very good, we're very big.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
And from day resources field.
Very good, we're very big, andfrom the day one was about
fostering and encouraging thenext generation to pick up the
mantle and come.
Yeah, I remember because I usedto.
Long before I was, I worked inthe outdoor industry.
Um I uh, so I was on the boardfor safari club, uh yeah, life
member.
Ontario federation of anglerson her life.
Men of rocky mountain ale.
Life members south centralfishing game and on and on and
on everywhere.
Just like yourself.
That's what I was going to say.
That sounds really good.
You know we used to do it wouldbe every other week.
We'd go into a well same withRough Grouse Society they're
(25:23):
gone Wild Turkey I used to do acouple of dinners with them a
year, and then DU and all theother ones and Rocky Mountain
Elk Foundation, foundation,foundation for North American
Bees, you do them all.
But so now they're coming back.
And can you give us someinsight of what happened there?
Because I remember and I waskind of disappointed- yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
Well, when the NWTF left, we kind of tried to fill
the void.
Understand that the NationalWild Turkey Federation is a
longstanding, well-established,well-funded national
organization.
Right, the Canadian Wild TurkeyFederation started out with two
guys in a half-ton truck.
Right, trying to make it workand by Jumbas, to our credit, we
(26:00):
were able to take very littleresources and spread it out
across the country.
So we have a network ofchapters Ontario, new Brunswick,
nova Scotia, newfoundland,different areas and we hold
fundraising dinners.
We're at a much smaller scalethan what the National Wild
Turkey Federation ever wouldhave been, right, but we always
(26:21):
wanted to be a self-sustainingorganization.
Covid did give us an awful runthrough the ringer, yeah, but
I'll tell you what.
Many organizations didn't comethrough the other side.
And we were able to comethrough the other side A little
battle-worn, and so when Ifinished my term, I had always
made the agreement with Terrythat I would come back and bring
my set of skills to it.
(26:43):
I'm an organizer.
Terry is a make-it-happen,ready-fire aim, so to speak.
I'm an organizer, we work verywell together.
So now I'm back and puttinginfrastructure together supply
chain, distribution agreements,uh, chapter relation stuff and
now we're going to take we,after 11 years we've got a nice
(27:04):
little organization that'sthat's doing okay.
Now we're going to take it tothe point where we're going to
be able to continue to grow itbecause for us, being just a
small ragtag organization, we'veinfluenced and invested in in
in thousands of youth um goodprograms over the over the
course of the last 10 years so,mike, you said you had a number
(27:25):
of chapters in ontario.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Do you know how many off roughly uh?
Speaker 6 (27:28):
there's four or five chapters in ontario there right
now.
We had a couple more than that.
Now I'm just newly back in thereins.
I just went to a banquet inAmherstburg.
We've got them in Belleville,two other places, four or five,
I think.
We've got five or six chaptersactively going here in Ontario
(27:48):
now with conversations withother regions where people are
reaching out to us.
When I came back I said okay,let's get out there and tell
people that we're ready forcompany and if folks have an
interest in moving forward witha chapter or plugging into an
existing chapter, let us know.
And the phone's been ringingoff the hook, so it's been busy.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Yeah, I was doing the show in Belleville last weekend
when I met the Bellevillechapter.
Yeah, they were there.
Yeah, those guys were there.
Yeah, I was doing the show inBelleville last weekend when I
met the Belleville chapter?
Speaker 6 (28:15):
Yeah, they were there .
Speaker 5 (28:15):
Yeah, those guys were there.
Yeah, I met them there andasked them and they said that
you people were going to be here.
So I talked to you here Becausethey were only the Belleville
chapter.
Speaker 6 (28:23):
They're a great crew, though I'll tell you.
They sold a staggering amountof tickets for their banquet
right at that show, yeah, and Isaw the display and I saw the
display.
I wasn't there, but I saw thedisplay and that's one of the
hardest working chapters youcould ever imagine.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
They do great work.
That's good.
Yeah, there's a lot of goodorganizations out there that
need some recognition and,hopefully, how are people going
to get in touch with you andwe'll go over this again CWTFca.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
That's our website.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Canadian Wild Turkey Federationca CWTF.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
CWTFca and when you go there there's a contact us.
My personal cell number isthere, emails are there.
We endeavor to make sure thatwe reach out to everybody that
contacts us and we encouragepeople to get in touch with us.
See, we're volunteers, terryand myself we're both volunteers
.
We both have professionsoutside of that, but we've
committed to making sure thatnobody goes within 24 hours of
being contacted outside of that.
But we've committed to makingsure that nobody goes within 24
(29:17):
hours of being contacted oncethey reach out to us.
So please, do so.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
you mentioned Newfoundland as well.
Now they have turkeys there now.
No, I met with the Newfoundlandgovernment because there was
Sean Kelly is a Black Angus,fine Meats and they were having
trouble in remote areas withoverpopulations of moose, yeah,
and in Newfoundland.
So I met with the ministers andthe government there.
(29:41):
Steve Kent was yeah, yeah, Iknow who you mean.
Yeah, I met with Steve and thenhe introduced me to a bunch of
people and we looked at becauseI told him I said, look, when I
turkey wild turkeys came inOntario we traded moose to
Michigan for turkeys to get themin Ontario.
Yeah, yeah, he says you tradedanimals and the staff, the
(30:02):
bureaucracy, the deputyminister's side, was very
interested in hearing all thatkind of stuff that there is
potential there and they thoughtwe got lots of moose so we need
to move some that we can inremote areas.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
But yeah, so I thought when you mentioned they
have a chapter in Newfoundland,they do, and something that's
interesting to note is that wehave chapters in Nova Scotia
with no turkey hunting,newfoundland with no turkey
hunting.
They don't have seasons Really,and people often say, well,
that's interesting and I alwaysthought when we were at the NWTF
, why did Alaska have a chapter?
(30:35):
And they did.
They had a very, veryhigh-functioning chapter and
then people started to talk tome about the philosophy of the
organization, and it's the sameone we embody.
We help foster and encouragethe conservation and habitat
protection and growth of thewild turkey in Canada.
But, that's not it, right, youknow, if you're never going to
(30:58):
hunt wild turkeys, we're aconservation organization.
The same habitat that benefitsturkeys benefits white-tailed
deer.
A youth that learns how to huntresponsibly and ethically if
they're taught by CWTF people inNova Scotia, where there's no
turkeys and ethically if they'retaught by CWTF people in Nova.
Scotia, where there's no turkeys, but then they invest in their
natural habitat in other ways,then that's a job well done.
(31:21):
The old saying that incomingtide rises all boats in the
harbor.
We invest in conservationinitiatives, we support apple
trees, we support food plotprograms.
We do all that stuff because wefeel like if it doesn't
directly correlate into a wildturkey hunting opportunity, it's
still making the woods in thewater better so what is the
(31:43):
typical?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
like the belleville chapter, not to say belleville,
but a typical chapter what dothey do for a year?
How does the organizationfunction?
Speaker 6 (31:50):
so the the operations function with completely with
volunteers, right, um.
And so there's usually aHunter's Heritage banquet once a
year.
We're very familiar with those,regardless of the conservation
group.
We know what it's like to walkinto those rooms.
As the Canadian Wild TurkeyFederation, we carry it by
providing them with the corepackage of prizes and firearms
and whatnot, so that they canhave their banquet, firearms and
(32:12):
whatnot, so that they can havetheir banquet.
One of the things that we do iswe allow a great deal of
individual flavor instead of itall being cookie cutter across
the country.
We just did a banquet inAmherstburg and they came to us
and said, well, you know, theprizes last year didn't
necessarily fit the outdoorsperson for the area.
And we said, well, do you havefolks that know what that
(32:34):
product would be?
Yeah, for the area.
And we said, well, do you havefolks that know what that
product would be?
Yeah, we do, and they're good.
Go, we'll pay for it.
You go, buy the product that'sgoing to hit the mark for your
local area, and it wasn't turkeyhunting gear.
It was awesome.
I just came for that banquetand it was one of the most
successful ones I've ever beento.
So you know, we let the chapterhave a great deal of autonomy.
They raise funds at this annualdinner and then we have a split
(32:57):
where we try to leave agenerous amount of that with the
chapter.
We also allow them to do aspecial auction, if they want,
where 100% of the proceeds ofthat stay with that local
chapter.
Then they work with us and wehelp.
As the broader organization wetry to help with organization of
events like the hoot and shootor fishing derbies.
(33:19):
Northern new brunswick has achapter for the national wild
canadian wild turkey federation.
Probably never going to seebirds up there because it's a
harsh, harsh climate, right, butthey do ice fishing events, oh
yeah, for youth.
So so, and then and thenthrough the year, if they want
to do something else we could do, we have a couple of smaller
kind of mini micro fundraisingthings that we do.
(33:39):
We help with raising funds,investing it back into chapters,
and then we say to them in yourlocal area, what can we invest
in that best helps promoteconservation?
And then so that's kind of thecycle that repeats itself every
year.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
So, yeah, so that's it's important to have some of
the projects that they want todo as well.
Yeah, and the ability to.
I know that's what we used todo because I worked with a
number of organizations ofsporting dogs, etc.
Etc.
I was on du committees, justlike yourself, yeah, and we'd
say, you know, okay, people thatare regulars that come to the
dinner, what do you need andwhat are you looking to buy?
And then that's what we madesure we targeted.
(34:14):
Well, you can only have so manydecorative tractor seats with a
logo on them right, Mike, I'vegot probably from that wall over
there which is like 8 feet, 8,10 feet of pictures all leaning
up at a place in the basement,Because now?
So what I do with thosepictures is I donate them.
I donate them to events and geta tax receipt for the donation.
So if you donate something tothe Canadian Wild Turkey
(34:36):
Federation, is it tax?
Speaker 6 (34:38):
receivable.
It's non-profit, so we don'thave charitable status, so at
this particular moment we don'thave that ability.
It would be great to do thatfor sure.
We don't have that status atthis particular moment.
When it comes to the prizes,though, you talk about that, I
always said I want to look at itthis way if you came to a
canadian wild turkey federationbanquet, right, you are going to
(34:58):
potentially win a prize tonightthat you can take out into the
field tomorrow, right?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
practical, we want it to be something that the people
can use yeah, yeah, very good,all right, so, and you're pretty
actively involved in that andit keeps you busy, obviously,
yeah and so you're here at thetor Sportsman Show and we're
talking just outside your booth.
Yeah, and it's good to see thatthere's organization
contributing in so manydifferent ways, and so you do.
(35:22):
Habitat development youmentioned the apple trees and a
bunch of other things.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
And oak trees, I'm sure are big.
Well, there's not a lot of oakin eastern Canada, no, no.
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Because you mentioned white and red oak showing the
kids.
Oh, that was in maine when wedid it there.
Okay, uh, but we do um appletrees typically, you know, um
different various food plots.
Um rack stacker has uh,formulated a, a plot blend
that'd be good for turkeys,right.
But we'll also work with folksand say is it deer that you want
to grow your plots for?
Again, like I said, if youcreate habitat, that's good for
any one different type.
So you know habitat type stuff.
(36:04):
Corn, you know we want to buycorn seed for a farmer to fill a
field and say just leave.
You know that perimeter aroundthe edge for the deer, the
turkeys, the you know, whatever.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Yeah, most people don't know, but I recall when I
was minister, one of the thingsthat I found interesting was
that five years of harsh winter,like the winter we just went-
through in Ontario will actuallywipe out huge numbers of deer
population and turkeypopulations.
Yeah, because they can't get tothe food and the forage that's
around.
Yeah, and I imagine it's thesame.
You mentioned parts of NewBrunswick that are pretty harsh.
You'll never see turkeys upthere because the winter's like
(36:37):
that all the time.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
So you have to be flexible, creative and figure
out what works where and do it.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Well, mike, I want to thank you again for taking the
time to be on the podcast.
I appreciate the time youserved as minister and now the
time you're serving with theCanadian Wild Turkey Federation,
and how can people again get intouch and find out more details
?
Speaker 6 (36:59):
I'd love to hear you or the Canadian Wild Turkey
Federation.
My personal contact information, email, phone number,
everything is on the websitecwtfca.
Keep it simple.
Come see us.
We want to hear from you.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Thanks again, and this is just something a little
bit different.
People can learn howorganizations are out there
working and making things betterunder the canopy.
Thanks, mike, love it.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to
build one of Canada's mosticonic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
newest podcast, diaries of aLodge Owner.
But this podcast will be morethan that.
Every week on Diaries of aLodge Owner, I'm going to
(38:00):
introduce you to a ton of greatpeople, share their stories of
our trials, tribulations andinspirations, learn and have
plenty of laughs along the way.
Meanwhile we're sitting therebobbing along trying to figure
out how to catch a bass and weboth decided one day we were
going to be on television doinga fishing show.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more
fishing than it was.
Punching you so confidently,you said hey.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Pat, have you ever eaten a drum?
Find Diaries of a Lodge Ownernow on Spotify, apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcast.
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Every Thursday, Ang and I will be right here in your
ears bringing you a brand newepisode of Outdoor Journal Radio
.
Now, what are we going?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
to talk about for two hours every week.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, you know there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We're going to be talking to people from all
facets of the outdoors, fromathletes All the other guys
would go golfing Me, and Garthand Turk and all the Russians
would go fishing To scientists.
But now that we're reforesting,and everything.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
it's the perfect transmission environment for
limestone To chefs, If any gameisn't cooked properly marinated,
you will taste it.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are Outdoor.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
(01:36):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by Indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest use, testimonials and
(01:59):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession and I now
spend my life dedicated toimproving the lives of others
through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of this strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld world.
(02:26):
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Underthe Canopy podcast, I'm going
to take you along with me to seethe places, meet the people
that will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode and hopefully we
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
Okay, first of all I want tothank all my listeners, both in
(02:53):
Canada, the States around theworld, switzerland, trinidad,
tobago.
We really appreciate youlistening to the podcast and, as
always, if you have anyquestions or comments or you
want to hear any shows, let usknow.
We'll see what we can do to getit on.
Sometimes it takes a bit oftime to find the experts, but I
got to tell you, when you havenumber one dinosaur experts on,
or the number one mycologistsaround the world and things like
(03:14):
that, we work at it to get itdone.
But today I've got a specialguest a former minister of
natural resources imagine thatfrom new brunswick, mike holland
.
Welcome to the program, mike.
Speaker 6 (03:23):
Good to be here.
It's always a pleasure to meetwith a former colleague in the
ministry.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Yeah, it's interesting, and I know now did
your file in New Brunswick?
Did it cover forestry as well?
Speaker 6 (03:35):
Yeah, it covered forestry, natural resources and
energy development is what theycalled it.
So it had forestry, crown lands, ministry, mining um, fishing
game, all of the wildlife, um, Ihad indigenous affairs as well,
okay, so basically anythingnatural resources.
Oh yeah, I had a hand on it.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
So very good, it was an awesome portfolio I loved it.
Yeah, it's.
Uh.
Well, I know in ontario used tosay it was the best ministry in
government.
Because you know, in innorthern ontario, um when, when
it didn't matter if you'restanding in a hospital or in a
school and government.
Because you know, in innorthern ontario, um when, when
it didn't matter if you'restanding in a hospital or in a
school and people asked youwhere you worked, you said the
ministry in ontario.
That meant ministry of naturalresources.
So absolutely, yeah, yeah,interesting stuff.
(04:15):
Uh, and how's the familiar?
How's the salmon doing theatlantics and well, I don't
think the atlantic salmon.
Speaker 6 (04:22):
They've got some real challenges in a lot of
different spots, wherever yousee them, Whether it be I mean,
New Brunswick is famous for itsAtlantic salmon.
The Miramichi River is historic, but even in areas like
Newfoundland and Labrador theEagle River in Labrador, the
Torrent River system innorthwestern Newfoundland
they've had some struggles andsome challenges as well.
(04:44):
You know, we've got a number ofdifferent things and everybody
thinks they've got the answer asto what the problem is, but I
think it's a collection ofissues that are creating some
significant problems for them.
I would certainly put them as aspecies that's In concern yeah,
of concern.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Yeah, atlantic's.
Now I don't know about yourself, but I am.
When I, when I was well priorto being minister in ontario
natural resources, um, I createda, developed a technology
myself.
I made classroom fish hatcheryprograms.
Well, that's awesome.
So, and for like 200, 250 bucks, um, we would take um fish, uh
(05:22):
equipment and rear in our casein about a dozen schools in
Oshawa, where I'm from, and thenI would do a whole session with
the kids.
So there was a video I'd supplythem.
It's called the Way of theTrout and it talks about the
life cycle and all the predatorsand things like that.
And then we would take eyed-upeggs and I'd take the kids down
to the stream.
I had groups like Kiwanis coverthe cost for busing and you can
(05:46):
tell when it's interesting whenthe parents are pushing the
kids out of the way to get infront to see what's going on.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Absolutely, that's a great field trip.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Yeah, so what we do is we go in with electroshocking
equipment and it kind of workslike a moth to light at night
and basically it looks like ametal detector and it's got a
grounding wire on the backpackthat you carry and you walk
through the water and you justwave this wand around and the
fish puts a little electriccurrent out.
(06:13):
The fish are drawn to it, andthen they get shocked and they
come up.
They just momentarily stun forjust a second, and that's when
netters grab them, and then weextract the eggs in the milt and
it goes back to a hatchery.
They blend it there and then weactually put the eggs in fish
aquariums and we do what'scalled a swim up hatchery.
So well, the eggs hatch,they're absorbing the yolk sacs
(06:34):
and once the yolk sacs areabsorbed, that's when they start
to feed, that's when we releasethem, because if you get a
couple thousand in a smallaquarium, they start going to
the bathroom.
Yeah, you start to getcontamination.
So, yeah, so we do asquamopatry, but the end result
is we put hundreds of thousandsof rainbow trout in oshawa creek
and a number of creeks in thearea.
Well, that's awesome, and wehave tens of thousands now
(06:54):
returning on an annual basis andthe results of it now right so
to me, but there was a littlebit of method to my madness as
well.
It's.
All the schools I targeted wereon the stream, so, rather than
throwing shopping carts and craplike that in the stream,
actually they saw value in itnow and so the kids started to
respect it.
Yeah, started, and possibly youknow stuff like that with
(07:15):
atlantic salmon or the atlanticsalmon foundation federation, I
think it is.
Yeah, asf, yeah that.
Uh, you know there's, there'sdifferent ways to go about it
and there is.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
I think that you know .
I'm inspired to hear you saythat, because in the maritime
region, I think it's incumbentupon groups like ASF or MSA, or
there's a few different groupsMSA is.
Miramichi Salmon Association.
Okay, that Miramichi Riversystem is historic.
I don't know if you've everfished it or not?
No, I haven't had the privilege,but it's well known and and the
returns have been dismal inthat area and and there's
(07:48):
there's groups and and uh,e-ngos that have put together
initiatives, private sector, uhfunding to to create, um,
exactly a situation like you'retalking about.
You know, pull, pull out, yeah,raise, and then, and then, at
the right time, uh put back intothe river system so that
they'll identify with and then,at the right time, put back into
the river system so thatthey'll identify with that and
then return.
The biggest issue, of courseand I'm talking to, maybe,
(08:12):
preachers of the choir butgovernments usually become the
sticking block or bureaucracies,or bureaucracies within them.
Yeah, I mean, I worked with DFO, I was a provincial minister,
but working with the FederalDepartment of Fisheries and
Oceans.
I think that we need to work tostrengthen that relationship,
because DFO has two differentriver systems in the province of
New Brunswick.
What's allowable in one is notallowable in the other, and
(08:34):
sometimes common sense andbiology doesn't.
It's an arbitrary line that'sdrawn.
So I think we need to bringcommon sense and tear down those
bureaucracies and organizationslike, well, the Canadian Wild
Turkey Federation, atlanticSalmon Federation it doesn't
matter whether you're hunting ora fishing organization.
I like Toronto Sportsman Show.
I like venues like this becausewe need to align more Right as
(08:57):
united voices versus fracturedentities.
We can get a whole lot moredone.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Right entities, we can get a whole lot more done,
right, yeah, and to me, what Itry to do is to reinstitute some
pride in the classrooms alongthe stream and then give those
kids some encouragement, and Iknow quite a few of the schools
actually developed fishing clubsand things like that as a
result.
So kids got into fishing andthey appreciate it.
But the result is right nowwe're at the Toronto Sportsman
(09:24):
Show and it's basically aboutthe second week in March.
By the end of this month, ifyou were to come down, you would
see tens of thousands ofrainbow trout coming up the
Oshawa Stream.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And it's great to see, and partof those kids are all part of
that and they have a pride in it.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
Now so they help with the environment.
Well, you said something rightthere.
Not only is it a pride in thewild resource, but it translates
to garbage not being like.
People are taking thatseriously.
So that's an initiative thathas consequences, intended or
unintended, that are beneficial.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Yeah, so there's all kind of stuff.
So yeah, I know because I'm abig Atlantic fan.
Now you work with a buddy ofmine, the post company of the
outdoor radio journal, ang.
He's not a big Atlantic fan.
Now you work with a buddy ofmine, the post company of the
outdoor radio journal, ang.
He's not a big Atlantic fan inOntario, but I was the one when
I was minister that started theprogram here in Ontario for
bringing Atlantics back in and Iknow that in the classroom
(10:21):
hatchery program we reared somebrowns as well.
Brown trout but rainbows werethe easiest because it was the
time of the year that kids whenthey're in school and it was
interesting and I used to go tocheck and I remember one guy he
had signs because it was in thelibrary.
No, the eggs have not hatchedyet.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Because the kids were driving him crazy that they
cared so much about it.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Yeah, that's awesome.
But you know, as minister, wekind of encourage those people
to get involved and make adifference just like you by
being the minister Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So what were?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
some of your favourite files that you ended
up working with I was very proudof the fact that.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
See, I didn't intend to be a politician.
I've been involved in outdoororganizations since I was old
enough to be involved NewBrunswick Wildlife Federation,
canadian Wild Turkey Federation,Ducks Unlimited, delta
Waterfowl.
I grew up in the outdoors andat the age where I could be
involved, I always got involvedin these organizations and one
(11:13):
of the things I realized wasthat government initiatives were
required but very cumbersomeand many times got in the way of
common sense initiatives.
So I was a founder of theCanadian Wild Turkey Federation
and in New Brunswick we wantedto institute a turkey hunt.
Lots of dynamics to that.
But I saw an opportunity and Iknew who was going to become the
(11:35):
premier and I went to him and Isaid if we work together and I
run, I essentially made a dealwith him that he would give me
the opportunity to get under thehood of DNR natural resources
and do some things that havebeen needed to be done for a
long time.
So I was very proud of the fact.
I mean we accomplished over 300policy changes in a short
period of time.
We instituted, for the firsttime ever, a wild turkey hunt in
(11:58):
the province of New Brunswick.
It's entering its fifth year ofsuccess right now.
Where did you get your birdsfrom.
They were there.
Oh, they were there already.
They were there, yeah, oh,really, One of the contentious
issues was I mean, trap andtransfer is typically the way
that you'd do it.
Organizations were logjammingit and we weren't going to be
able to move forward with it.
So I said, what if we look atthe huntable populations that we
(12:22):
have there now?
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
You've got to find a way to get around it.
Well, we faced a lot ofdifficulty with that, but it was
a very satisfying day when,prior to being elected, I was
told no, we can't do that.
But it felt pretty good on thefirst week when they said yes,
minister, we'll get right onthat, because it was a project
that I was committed to makinghappen and it was a way to do it
Very good.
I had to teach the staff how tothink in terms of possibilities
(12:45):
, though not the reason why wecan't well, you mentioned
teaching the staff, I mean.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
So I recall the same thing when I was minister and it
was the same thing.
We had a problem with deer,yeah, um, in a number of
wildlife management units wmusin ontario and so the
bureaucracy came in with a planto uh reduce the number of deer
in the areas.
The way they tell is by cropdamage and the number of car
accidents.
Yep, uh is the number onedetermining factor for how we
(13:13):
increase the harvest.
And I said, look, rather thanjust increase the numbers, why
don't we look at an economicstimulus?
What do you mean?
Because we're in the biologydepartment, we're not into
generating revenue 100%.
So I said, look, I said I gotto tell you I have a crew of 16
people, avid deer hunters, closefriends of mine, on and on.
(13:35):
I said, but not one of them hasa muzzleloader.
If we bring in a muzzleloaderseason, all of them are going to
buy muzzleloaders and stimulatethe economy.
And in that population right andthen so we got an extra season
and guess what?
There were 16 guys that all hadmuzzleloaders now yeah yeah.
So it stimulated a bit of theeconomy and it's a small
thinking like that.
So they said, well, what shouldwe do with licenses?
(13:58):
Should we just issue twolicenses per tag?
I said no, If somebody wants asecond tag, they can pay for it.
They can pay for it.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Right we to so often marginalize the outdoor
community?
Society can take an anti-huntingapproach and sometimes we're to
blame for that because we feedthat stereotype of just being
drunks that shoot road signs outof the window of our truck,
right, but one of the things Iworked hard on was to raise the
(14:26):
bar about what legal, ethical,responsible outdoors people as
hunters are.
We're conservationists and, as aresult, not only are we here to
do the right thing, there'smoney there if you expand our
industry, yeah Right, likesalmon are having difficulty.
In the Miramichi, the MiramichiStriped Bass Association was
(14:46):
formed and created an event thatdoes $5 million worth of GDP in
a weekend for that one area.
So I had a great time trying toconvince my non-outdoors
colleagues and premier that wehad a benefit to the economy,
not just managing wildlife, notjust dealing with biologists,
(15:07):
but there's a bigger picturethere, where even the turkey
hunt.
The application for the drawled to that year an additional
five figures in income for theDepartment of Natural Resources.
When I left, one of the thingsI was proud about was that the
Department of Natural Resourceswas the only self-sustaining
department in the halls ofgovernment.
That's good, because we did alot of things that just made
(15:29):
sense.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Well, it's the same.
One of the things that I didbefore I was minister was I
brought elk to the province ofOntario.
Yes, I heard that.
Yeah, and so I worked a dealwith Rocky Mountain Elk
Foundation because they're theprocessing agent for Elk Island,
alberta, and we were able tobring them in in a number of
locations and that stimulated ahunt in those areas.
(15:52):
But there's all kind of viewingand all kind of other
opportunities that are nowutilized by other groups and
organizations.
So in my, I always wanted tohave elk in ontario, which we do
have now, yep, and so when wedo those things and get those
kind of results, it's kind ofsatisfying to some extent, but
most people have no idea howthey actually come about oh,
it's like the duck on the pond.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
It looks like there's nothing happening on the
surface, but the legs arebeating like the band underneath
the water.
Yeah, it takes a lot of work.
Every overnight success wasyears in the making, as they say
so, your Striped BassAssociation.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
so how is that in New Brunswick?
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Well, the Striped Bass Association, like the
Miramichi River, has a largepopulation of striped bass every
year.
It's a phenomenal fishery,right, and to give you a little
context, I grew up in that areaand so I'm 55 years old Never
saw a striped bass when I was ayoung fellow, going down to the
river Right With my cane, poleand lure.
(16:46):
I'm not Huckleberry Finn, butback in those days never saw it.
Hole and lure I'm notHuckleberry Finn, but back in
those days never saw it.
Then, within the last 10 or 15years, the cycle came back and
it was an amazing fishery andduring that time it was
something interesting.
My father told me oh yeah, Iremember fishing those when I
was a kid, really.
And then so I did a littledigging in it and they're a
native species to the riversystem, but it's cyclical.
(17:09):
How long is that cycle?
A generation, really?
Yeah, it's generational, andthen you'll see them dip and go
on.
So I think it's important and Ibelieve, as natural resource
stewards, we can't protect thesalmon at the expense of another
native species.
We can't exterminate salmon,considering their historic and
(17:31):
and invaluable nature, nevermind first nation significance.
On on salmon, we got to worktogether and find out where
those balances are and as thosestriped bass, uh cycles, move,
when they're at their highest,it will have an impact on salmon
, but we also have to make surethat we protect it so that it
doesn't go too low to the bottomRight and then, you know,
adversely affect that cycle Well.
(17:53):
Ange and Pete were big straightpassers.
They've been up to the.
I've seen them.
They've been in New Brunswick.
I've sat with them a few times.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I never fished with them on the boat but I've been
there when they were out fishing, and they love it Well you're
here in the economic generation,economics that are generated
from a lot of the activities.
There's one there that I workedwith, ange after I was out of
government, and people don'trealize this.
(18:20):
Carp fishing is huge in somecountries in the world.
Yeah, yeah, I know In Ontarioit's a garbage fish.
Yeah, I know Nobody wants towaste their time Not really.
Well, one lure, one hook for acarp is like $15 for one hook,
Just a hook.
And the rods are spendingthousands of dollars for these
$2,000, $3,000 for a carp rod,and when they hold these World
(18:43):
Carp Tournaments they bring inall kind of revenue.
So we worked and Ontario's nowset that it could potentially
host a world carp fishingtournament.
That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
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Speaker 5 (20:07):
And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga
Health and Wellness.
Okay, here we are in Lindsaywith Bill, who's actually?
This gentleman has given bloodover 230 times 233, yeah, 233,
and that's amazing, and you'vehad some success with Chaga.
Tell us what you're dealingwith and what you did and how
(20:29):
you what you used.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
Well, I had mild high blood pressure.
Mild high blood pressure wasn'tvery really high, but I was on
medication for a few years.
And then I quit drinking coffeeand started drinking this tea,
the combination tea, the greenand the Chaga Right, and my
medication is gone.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Your medication's gone, gone and you couldn't give
blood during the other times.
Yeah, I could.
Speaker 7 (20:55):
Oh you could, I could , yeah, yeah, so, but a few
times the machine kicked me out.
Oh yeah, so, but now it doesn'tanymore.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
So you think the green tea and the chaga helped
normalize your blood pressures?
Speaker 7 (21:08):
Oh yeah, oh very good , because it wouldn't be just
stopping coffee, it would haveto be something else.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
And that's the only thing you did differently.
Speaker 7 (21:14):
Yep, well, thank you very much for that, and my blood
pressure is probably that of a40-year-old man, and I'm 71.
Oh, very good.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Well, that's good to hear.
Thank you very much for that.
No problem, okay.
No problem, okay.
We interrupt this program tobring you a special offer from
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If you've listened this far andyou're still wondering about
(21:43):
this strange mushroom that Ikeep talking about and whether
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To thank you for listening tothe show, I'm going to make
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(22:25):
Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
So now, mikey, you're doingsomething a bit different.
You're with the Canadian.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
Wild Turkey Federation.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Tell us a bit about that.
How did you get started?
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Well, so this goes back historically.
I was a district director forthe National Wild Turkey
Federation, the US organization,when they were here in Canada.
I was the district director forNew Brunswick.
A good friend of mine, terrySmith, was the district director
for Nova Scotia and, as you mayknow or may not know, the
National Wild Turkey Federationrather quickly left the Canadian
(22:58):
landscape.
Yes, I know?
Yeah Well, I was promoting themat a fish and game dinner and
got out to the truck and got anemail that it was done.
So it was rapid when they hadto and they had to, and at the
end of the day, there's a numberof reasons for that.
But at the end of the day,there's a number of reasons for
that.
But at the end of the day, wewere stuck with an organization
that was making momentum and inNew Brunswick I knew that we
(23:19):
could get to the point of havinga turkey hunt.
And then so Terry and I talkedto each other that night and we
said, well, we're not going toquit.
So we formed I was going toform the New Brunswick Wild
Turkey Federation, terry wasgoing to form the Nova Scotia
Wild Turkey Federation and Terrywas going to form the Nova
Scotia Wild Turkey Federation.
And then we thought, well, whydon't we just look at combining
it?
We felt like Atlantic Canadawas where we were going to focus
on, but we thought, if we'regoing to do it, let's do it
(23:40):
across the country.
And so that was 11 years ago.
And then so we started that.
Terry Smith became thepresident, I was the vice
president.
We fleshed out a board ofdirectors and we started setting
up chapters all across thecountry and putting these
banquets together.
Of course, subsequently I hadthe vision of making sure that
we had turkeys hunting in NewBrunswick, so I took a detour to
(24:02):
become the Minister of NaturalResources.
Terry continued with theCanadian Wild Turkey Federation.
We've grown in areas we focus alot on youth.
We do hoot and shoot campaignswhere we bring youth to areas
where we can mentor them, teachthem all about environmental
responsibility what's a red oakleaf, what's a white oak leaf?
(24:23):
So we're not taking them outand just teaching them about
hunting.
We're teaching them aboutcarrying capacity of habitat.
We're teaching them all aboutwhat ideal areas are,
identifying turkeys,understanding them, safety for
hunting, particularly safety forhunting turkeys and then we
take them out and measure theiraptitude and if they have the
aptitude for it, we'll take themout and mentor them on a turkey
(24:44):
hunt.
Oh, very good.
We have three guys that I knowof now that are adults, that
came through that program, thatwork in the natural resources
field.
Very good, we're very big.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
And from day resources field.
Very good, we're very big, andfrom the day one was about
fostering and encouraging thenext generation to pick up the
mantle and come.
Yeah, I remember because I usedto.
Long before I was, I worked inthe outdoor industry.
Um I uh, so I was on the boardfor safari club, uh yeah, life
member.
Ontario federation of anglerson her life.
Men of rocky mountain ale.
Life members south centralfishing game and on and on and
on everywhere.
Just like yourself.
That's what I was going to say.
That sounds really good.
You know we used to do it wouldbe every other week.
We'd go into a well same withRough Grouse Society they're
(25:23):
gone Wild Turkey I used to do acouple of dinners with them a
year, and then DU and all theother ones and Rocky Mountain
Elk Foundation, foundation,foundation for North American
Bees, you do them all.
But so now they're coming back.
And can you give us someinsight of what happened there?
Because I remember and I waskind of disappointed- yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
Well, when the NWTF left, we kind of tried to fill
the void.
Understand that the NationalWild Turkey Federation is a
longstanding, well-established,well-funded national
organization.
Right, the Canadian Wild TurkeyFederation started out with two
guys in a half-ton truck.
Right, trying to make it workand by Jumbas, to our credit, we
(26:00):
were able to take very littleresources and spread it out
across the country.
So we have a network ofchapters Ontario, new Brunswick,
nova Scotia, newfoundland,different areas and we hold
fundraising dinners.
We're at a much smaller scalethan what the National Wild
Turkey Federation ever wouldhave been, right, but we always
(26:21):
wanted to be a self-sustainingorganization.
Covid did give us an awful runthrough the ringer, yeah, but
I'll tell you what.
Many organizations didn't comethrough the other side.
And we were able to comethrough the other side A little
battle-worn, and so when Ifinished my term, I had always
made the agreement with Terrythat I would come back and bring
my set of skills to it.
(26:43):
I'm an organizer.
Terry is a make-it-happen,ready-fire aim, so to speak.
I'm an organizer, we work verywell together.
So now I'm back and puttinginfrastructure together supply
chain, distribution agreements,uh, chapter relation stuff and
now we're going to take we,after 11 years we've got a nice
(27:04):
little organization that'sthat's doing okay.
Now we're going to take it tothe point where we're going to
be able to continue to grow itbecause for us, being just a
small ragtag organization, we'veinfluenced and invested in in
in thousands of youth um goodprograms over the over the
course of the last 10 years so,mike, you said you had a number
(27:25):
of chapters in ontario.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Do you know how many off roughly uh?
Speaker 6 (27:28):
there's four or five chapters in ontario there right
now.
We had a couple more than that.
Now I'm just newly back in thereins.
I just went to a banquet inAmherstburg.
We've got them in Belleville,two other places, four or five,
I think.
We've got five or six chaptersactively going here in Ontario
(27:48):
now with conversations withother regions where people are
reaching out to us.
When I came back I said okay,let's get out there and tell
people that we're ready forcompany and if folks have an
interest in moving forward witha chapter or plugging into an
existing chapter, let us know.
And the phone's been ringingoff the hook, so it's been busy.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Yeah, I was doing the show in Belleville last weekend
when I met the Bellevillechapter.
Yeah, they were there.
Yeah, those guys were there.
Yeah, I was doing the show inBelleville last weekend when I
met the Belleville chapter?
Speaker 6 (28:15):
Yeah, they were there .
Speaker 5 (28:15):
Yeah, those guys were there.
Yeah, I met them there andasked them and they said that
you people were going to be here.
So I talked to you here Becausethey were only the Belleville
chapter.
Speaker 6 (28:23):
They're a great crew, though I'll tell you.
They sold a staggering amountof tickets for their banquet
right at that show, yeah, and Isaw the display and I saw the
display.
I wasn't there, but I saw thedisplay and that's one of the
hardest working chapters youcould ever imagine.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
They do great work.
That's good.
Yeah, there's a lot of goodorganizations out there that
need some recognition and,hopefully, how are people going
to get in touch with you andwe'll go over this again CWTFca.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
That's our website.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Canadian Wild Turkey Federationca CWTF.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
CWTFca and when you go there there's a contact us.
My personal cell number isthere, emails are there.
We endeavor to make sure thatwe reach out to everybody that
contacts us and we encouragepeople to get in touch with us.
See, we're volunteers, terryand myself we're both volunteers
.
We both have professionsoutside of that, but we've
committed to making sure thatnobody goes within 24 hours of
being contacted outside of that.
But we've committed to makingsure that nobody goes within 24
(29:17):
hours of being contacted oncethey reach out to us.
So please, do so.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
you mentioned Newfoundland as well.
Now they have turkeys there now.
No, I met with the Newfoundlandgovernment because there was
Sean Kelly is a Black Angus,fine Meats and they were having
trouble in remote areas withoverpopulations of moose, yeah,
and in Newfoundland.
So I met with the ministers andthe government there.
(29:41):
Steve Kent was yeah, yeah, Iknow who you mean.
Yeah, I met with Steve and thenhe introduced me to a bunch of
people and we looked at becauseI told him I said, look, when I
turkey wild turkeys came inOntario we traded moose to
Michigan for turkeys to get themin Ontario.
Yeah, yeah, he says you tradedanimals and the staff, the
(30:02):
bureaucracy, the deputyminister's side, was very
interested in hearing all thatkind of stuff that there is
potential there and they thoughtwe got lots of moose so we need
to move some that we can inremote areas.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
But yeah, so I thought when you mentioned they
have a chapter in Newfoundland,they do, and something that's
interesting to note is that wehave chapters in Nova Scotia
with no turkey hunting,newfoundland with no turkey
hunting.
They don't have seasons Really,and people often say, well,
that's interesting and I alwaysthought when we were at the NWTF
, why did Alaska have a chapter?
(30:35):
And they did.
They had a very, veryhigh-functioning chapter and
then people started to talk tome about the philosophy of the
organization, and it's the sameone we embody.
We help foster and encouragethe conservation and habitat
protection and growth of thewild turkey in Canada.
But, that's not it, right, youknow, if you're never going to
(30:58):
hunt wild turkeys, we're aconservation organization.
The same habitat that benefitsturkeys benefits white-tailed
deer.
A youth that learns how to huntresponsibly and ethically if
they're taught by CWTF people inNova Scotia, where there's no
turkeys and ethically if they'retaught by CWTF people in Nova.
Scotia, where there's no turkeys, but then they invest in their
natural habitat in other ways,then that's a job well done.
(31:21):
The old saying that incomingtide rises all boats in the
harbor.
We invest in conservationinitiatives, we support apple
trees, we support food plotprograms.
We do all that stuff because wefeel like if it doesn't
directly correlate into a wildturkey hunting opportunity, it's
still making the woods in thewater better so what is the
(31:43):
typical?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
like the belleville chapter, not to say belleville,
but a typical chapter what dothey do for a year?
How does the organizationfunction?
Speaker 6 (31:50):
so the the operations function with completely with
volunteers, right, um.
And so there's usually aHunter's Heritage banquet once a
year.
We're very familiar with those,regardless of the conservation
group.
We know what it's like to walkinto those rooms.
As the Canadian Wild TurkeyFederation, we carry it by
providing them with the corepackage of prizes and firearms
and whatnot, so that they canhave their banquet, firearms and
(32:12):
whatnot, so that they can havetheir banquet.
One of the things that we do iswe allow a great deal of
individual flavor instead of itall being cookie cutter across
the country.
We just did a banquet inAmherstburg and they came to us
and said, well, you know, theprizes last year didn't
necessarily fit the outdoorsperson for the area.
And we said, well, do you havefolks that know what that
(32:34):
product would be?
Yeah, for the area.
And we said, well, do you havefolks that know what that
product would be?
Yeah, we do, and they're good.
Go, we'll pay for it.
You go, buy the product that'sgoing to hit the mark for your
local area, and it wasn't turkeyhunting gear.
It was awesome.
I just came for that banquetand it was one of the most
successful ones I've ever beento.
So you know, we let the chapterhave a great deal of autonomy.
They raise funds at this annualdinner and then we have a split
(32:57):
where we try to leave agenerous amount of that with the
chapter.
We also allow them to do aspecial auction, if they want,
where 100% of the proceeds ofthat stay with that local
chapter.
Then they work with us and wehelp.
As the broader organization wetry to help with organization of
events like the hoot and shootor fishing derbies.
(33:19):
Northern new brunswick has achapter for the national wild
canadian wild turkey federation.
Probably never going to seebirds up there because it's a
harsh, harsh climate, right, butthey do ice fishing events, oh
yeah, for youth.
So so, and then and thenthrough the year, if they want
to do something else we could do, we have a couple of smaller
kind of mini micro fundraisingthings that we do.
(33:39):
We help with raising funds,investing it back into chapters,
and then we say to them in yourlocal area, what can we invest
in that best helps promoteconservation?
And then so that's kind of thecycle that repeats itself every
year.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
So, yeah, so that's it's important to have some of
the projects that they want todo as well.
Yeah, and the ability to.
I know that's what we used todo because I worked with a
number of organizations ofsporting dogs, etc.
Etc.
I was on du committees, justlike yourself, yeah, and we'd
say, you know, okay, people thatare regulars that come to the
dinner, what do you need andwhat are you looking to buy?
And then that's what we madesure we targeted.
(34:14):
Well, you can only have so manydecorative tractor seats with a
logo on them right, Mike, I'vegot probably from that wall over
there which is like 8 feet, 8,10 feet of pictures all leaning
up at a place in the basement,Because now?
So what I do with thosepictures is I donate them.
I donate them to events and geta tax receipt for the donation.
So if you donate something tothe Canadian Wild Turkey
(34:36):
Federation, is it tax?
Speaker 6 (34:38):
receivable.
It's non-profit, so we don'thave charitable status, so at
this particular moment we don'thave that ability.
It would be great to do thatfor sure.
We don't have that status atthis particular moment.
When it comes to the prizes,though, you talk about that, I
always said I want to look at itthis way if you came to a
canadian wild turkey federationbanquet, right, you are going to
(34:58):
potentially win a prize tonightthat you can take out into the
field tomorrow, right?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
practical, we want it to be something that the people
can use yeah, yeah, very good,all right, so, and you're pretty
actively involved in that andit keeps you busy, obviously,
yeah and so you're here at thetor Sportsman Show and we're
talking just outside your booth.
Yeah, and it's good to see thatthere's organization
contributing in so manydifferent ways, and so you do.
(35:22):
Habitat development youmentioned the apple trees and a
bunch of other things.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
And oak trees, I'm sure are big.
Well, there's not a lot of oakin eastern Canada, no, no.
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Because you mentioned white and red oak showing the
kids.
Oh, that was in maine when wedid it there.
Okay, uh, but we do um appletrees typically, you know, um
different various food plots.
Um rack stacker has uh,formulated a, a plot blend
that'd be good for turkeys,right.
But we'll also work with folksand say is it deer that you want
to grow your plots for?
Again, like I said, if youcreate habitat, that's good for
any one different type.
So you know habitat type stuff.
(36:04):
Corn, you know we want to buycorn seed for a farmer to fill a
field and say just leave.
You know that perimeter aroundthe edge for the deer, the
turkeys, the you know, whatever.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Yeah, most people don't know, but I recall when I
was minister, one of the thingsthat I found interesting was
that five years of harsh winter,like the winter we just went-
through in Ontario will actuallywipe out huge numbers of deer
population and turkeypopulations.
Yeah, because they can't get tothe food and the forage that's
around.
Yeah, and I imagine it's thesame.
You mentioned parts of NewBrunswick that are pretty harsh.
You'll never see turkeys upthere because the winter's like
(36:37):
that all the time.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
So you have to be flexible, creative and figure
out what works where and do it.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Well, mike, I want to thank you again for taking the
time to be on the podcast.
I appreciate the time youserved as minister and now the
time you're serving with theCanadian Wild Turkey Federation,
and how can people again get intouch and find out more details
?
Speaker 6 (36:59):
I'd love to hear you or the Canadian Wild Turkey
Federation.
My personal contact information, email, phone number,
everything is on the websitecwtfca.
Keep it simple.
Come see us.
We want to hear from you.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Thanks again, and this is just something a little
bit different.
People can learn howorganizations are out there
working and making things betterunder the canopy.
Thanks, mike, love it.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to
build one of Canada's mosticonic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
newest podcast, diaries of aLodge Owner.
But this podcast will be morethan that.
Every week on Diaries of aLodge Owner, I'm going to
(38:00):
introduce you to a ton of greatpeople, share their stories of
our trials, tribulations andinspirations, learn and have
plenty of laughs along the way.
Meanwhile we're sitting therebobbing along trying to figure
out how to catch a bass and weboth decided one day we were
going to be on television doinga fishing show.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more
fishing than it was.
Punching you so confidently,you said hey.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Pat, have you ever eaten a drum?
Find Diaries of a Lodge Ownernow on Spotify, apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcast.
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