Episode 94: What 200 Million Years of Survival Can Teach Us

From the edge of extinction to the heart of wetland conservation, Dr. Sue Carstairs is leading a revolution in turtle rescue and rehabilitation at the Ontario Turtle Conservation Centre. As veterinarian and executive director, she's transformed this humble organization into Canada's only dedicated turtle hospital, saving thousands of these ancient creatures each year.

The numbers are staggering – 2,300 injured turtles admitted last year alone and 9,000 eggs incubated from injured mothers. From their newly-built facility in Peterborough, Dr. Carstairs and her team orchestrate a province-wide rescue network with 1,500 volunteer "turtle taxis" and 50 first-responder veterinarians. It's a race against time to save creatures that have survived 200 million years but now face unprecedented threats from roads, habitat loss, and illegal collection.

What makes this work so crucial is the unique life history of turtles. A snapping turtle must live 50-60 years just to replace itself in the population. Every adult saved has a measurable impact on conservation. These aren't just fascinating creatures – they're essential components of healthy wetlands that filter our drinking water and prevent flooding. When we save turtles, we're protecting ecosystems that sustain all life.

The Centre's work goes beyond rescue – they're pioneering education programs, collecting vital research data, and inspiring a new generation of conservationists. Learn how you can help these remarkable creatures that can regenerate spinal cords, survive with almost no oxygen, and carry the wisdom of 200 million years of evolution in their DNA. Visit ontarioturtle.ca to discover how you can join this extraordinary effort to protect Ontario's eight at-risk turtle species for generations to come.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Back in 2016,.
Frank and I had a vision toamass the single largest
database of muskie anglingeducation material anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
amazing community and share itwith passionate anglers just
like you.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly
grew to become one of the topfishing podcasts in North
America.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Step into the world of angling adventures and
embrace the thrill of the catchwith the Ugly Pike Podcast.
Join us on our quest tounderstand what makes us
different as anglers and touncover what it takes to go
after the infamous fish of10,000 casts.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing.
It's about creating atight-knit community of
passionate anglers who share thesame love for the sport.
Through laughter, throughcamaraderie and an unwavering
spirit of adventure, thispodcast will bring people
together.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our
angling adventures.
Tight lines everyone.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or
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Speaker 3 (01:11):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.

(01:33):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by Indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest, use, testimonials and

(01:56):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession and I now
spend my life dedicated toimproving the lives of others
through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of this strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.

(02:16):
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people.
That will help you find youroutdoor passion and help you
live a life close to nature andunder the canopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode, and hopefully we

(02:37):
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
Under the Canopy, all right.
Well, thanks all to thelisteners out there throughout
Canada, the States, switzerland,ghana, trinidad, tobago, all
around the world.
We really appreciate youlistening to our podcast and, as

(03:00):
always, if you've got anyquestions, you've got any shows
you'd like to hear about, let usknow.
We'll see what we can do aboutputting it together and getting
it on for you.
Now, this morning was aninteresting morning.
I'm out doing my normal runwith my chocolate lab gunner and
this time I have my son's dog,benny, and Benny's a cockapoo

(03:23):
and ball crazy.
So we're out doing the morningrun and, lo and behold, I'm
watering.
I've got several patches ofwild leeks that I've
transplanted and guess what?
Somebody found them and they'regone, which just kind of ticks
me right off as I bring in them.

(03:44):
You got to get the right soilconfiguration.
You pretty Pretty much if youfind trilliums in one area,
you'll find wild leeks inanother.
But upon closer and I thought,oh great, somebody's dug them
out and taken them on me.
But upon closer, look, it lookslike probably a rabbit came in
and ate all the leaves from that.
But I'm hoping that the bulbswill stay and that I will
actually get some extra patches.

(04:05):
So but that's all part of it.
Not only that, but I'm findingmorels out there right now, so I
got a bunch of morels.
I passed them on to Dean, theproducer, because I know he
likes morels, or implied he did.
So I got Dean some morels fortoday and along with some
portabellos that I got fromWaymac Mushroom Farms a couple

(04:25):
days ago, which will make a nicemeal for Dean.
But it's always interesting andyou never know how these things
are going to take out.
My living apothecary is comingalong fine.
My stinging nettle is doingokay, my mullein is doing okay,
along with a lot of other stuff.
But I was disappointed andsurprised about the leaks being
gone.
But hopefully the bulbs willstay and there was enough there

(04:46):
that they'll come back up nextyear.
And today we have a specialguest, dr Sue Carstairs from the
Ontario Turtle ConservationCentre.
Welcome to the program, sue.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
Oh, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Oh, it's great to have individuals such as
yourself to let our podcastlisteners know about what's
going on out there that a lot ofpeople don't even know about.
So first of all, tell us aboutyourself.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
So I'm a veterinarian and a biologist and have a
passion for conservation, andcurrently I'm the executive and
medical director at the OntarioTurtle Conservation Centre.
So our mission is to help withthe conservation of Ontario's
wild turtle populations and thehabitat.

(05:31):
So we do this in a number ofdifferent ways that I can get
into as we go along.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Oh, very good.
So yourself being aveterinarian, is it just turtles
you practice on, or do youpractice on other animals as
well?

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Currently I'm just doing the Turtle Center.
It's sort of overtaken my life.
I have been in private practice, I've worked for charities, I
worked in shelters and thennarrowed it down.
I always did want to work inconservation and to work on a
project that had a populationimpact, that had a population

(06:07):
impact and, lo and behold,turtles sort of fell into my lap
and it's perfect, because roadmortality is a big factor in
Ontario's turtle populationdeclines.
So being a veterinarian andbeing able to fix them up and
release them is amazing andbecause of their life history,
being such long-lived speciesbut taking so long to mature and

(06:27):
not many that make it toadulthood so every adult that we
can save and put back isactually having a population
effect.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
So that feels really good, very interesting.
Well, I didn't realize thatyou're actually aware of that.
So had I known that, I wouldhave had a whole bunch of other
questions, particularly aboutLyme disease and ticks and stuff
like that and controlling thepopulation.
But that's maybe for anotherday.
So, sue, tell us whereaboutsyou're located and where you're
located and for ourinternational audience, kind of

(06:56):
from a Toronto kind of center,if you could kind of break it
down for people and give us abit of a background on where you
are and where the TurtleConservation Centre is.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
Sure, yeah, so we're located in Peterborough, ontario
, and that's about a two-hourdrive from Toronto.
It's northeast of Toronto andit's on the outskirts of town.
We just built our own facility.
We had a capital campaign thatwas successful.
We have a hundred acre propertythat's being gifted to us.

(07:29):
So that's where our newfacility is and it's fairly
large and it incorporates a verylarge public accessible place.
So we have a large centraleducation center and it's
attached to the hospital andrehabilitation center so people
can actually see into thesurgery and because a lot of the
females that come in arecarrying eggs, we also have a

(07:51):
very large hatchling program, sothat's very interesting to see.
So there's lots for the publicto see and do, and we just moved
in so we are open to the publicnow.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Very interesting.
So you mentioned about yourcampaign for the building and
that.
So if people want to make adonation, is this tax receivable
?

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Absolutely it is.
We're a registered charity andwe do have some naming
opportunities still availablefor the capital campaign, but we
are very happy with any sizedonation.
Of course that's how we run,but we're very happy with any
size donation.
Of course that's how we run.
So our operational budget issupported by donations, mostly
by private individuals.
And, yes, so people can donateonline, in person or by mail

(08:37):
however they would like to, andif you want to, find out more
about us, obviously visit ourwebsite at ontarioturtleca and
give you more details, right?

Speaker 3 (08:48):
So what exactly takes place at the Ontario Turtle
Conservation Centre?

Speaker 4 (08:53):
So we have very much a multi-pronged approach to
conservation.
So conservation really requiresthat the public get involved,
like education for the public onconservation is vital to moving
it forward.
So that's why we put such anemphasis on education.
As we all know, you know, ifthe public wants something moved

(09:14):
in a certain direction, thatcan move it a lot faster than
biologists with their reports,to be honest.
So we try and inspire thepublic towards stewardship
activities and that's what theeducation program is about.
We have an education staff thatdo presentations on site, they
do tours and they also dopresentations off site.
So that's one hub of it.

(09:36):
The very central area, of course, is the hospital and last year
we admitted 2,300 turtles fromacross the province.
So they come from all over theprovince and we were able to do
this on such a wide scalebecause we have such an amazing
collaborative group ofvolunteers.
We have about 1,500, probablymore than that now turtle taxi

(09:58):
volunteers and they help to getthe turtles from A to B.
We also have about 50 firstresponder veterinarians and they
volunteer their time to help usout through their clinics
across the province.
So then the turtle can getimmediate care and be brought
into us, and turtles are amazingat healing.
Of course they have a veryrigid shell which is made out of

(10:20):
bone, but it protects them alot from being struck by cars.
So our success rate is much,much higher than any other
species would be.
So we're able to get a lot ofthe turtles that are at Bivit
repaired and then back to fullfunction and then back to the
wild.
So that's the main thing ofwhat we do.
But then the head startingprogram, or the hatchling

(10:42):
program, is another way toaugment the population.
So last year we incubated 9,000eggs.
They all came from turtles thatwere admitted to the hospital
and then those are hatched andthen the babies are released
back to the mother's wetland.
The other side of what we do isour data really is helpful to
inform where road mortalitymitigation structures should be

(11:05):
placed.
So our data goes on to work forconservation, not only in
mitigation work, but all ourdata is very useful for other
conservation projects throughout.
So yeah, that's basically thenuts and bolts of what we do.
Each program has sort of a lifeof its own, but they're all
very much interconnected.

(11:26):
For instance, our hospital is ateaching hospital, so we have
veterinarians come and learn howto do the work that we do or
other rehabilitation centerscome and learn.
So we like to work with as manydifferent people as we can and
spread the word and helpeveryone to do more.
And it does work.
And what we do in the hospitalwe've shown statistically does

(11:49):
buy time to fix the problem.
Fixing the problem obviouslyinvolves preventing them getting
hit, and eco-passages allowingthem passage under the road is
the way to do that.
And this year we're actuallypartnering with a road ecologist
and the people who make thefencing for the eco passage to
try and work on local projectsto show, and then we can

(12:12):
showcase them in the educationcenter, like how this prevents
mortality and how people can getinvolved.
So it's really all abouteducation.
But, um, yeah, the thehospital's been our hub since we
started, but this is the firsttime we've had our own
purpose-built facility, so we'rereally excited.
We literally just moved in, soit hasn't really sunk in yet.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, very good.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize but, for example, if
you're driving up Highway 69 andyou look along the sides of the
road, you'll see this ratherlow fencing.
That's rather well.
It's fairly dense, almost likea density of a chicken wire, I'd
say, and that's turtle-prooffencing, correct.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, there's a lot of projects going on.
There's hundreds across theprovince, more and more.
So, yes, that's right.
And not only does it protectturtles but other species as
well.
So they made so that there'sbeen a lot of work over the last
15 years or so on these ecopassages to see, you know, so it
doesn't harm any other species,and then we can protect snakes

(13:16):
as well as turtles, for example.
Obviously, the bigger specieshave over passages instead of
the under passages, but a lot ofspecies have been photographed
using them.
The smaller species use them tocross the road safely.
So that's pretty cool, and Iknow the MTO is actively keen on
remediating as many places aspossible.

(13:38):
There's lots of citizen sciencegroups that are promoting
action in their area, a lot ofbiologists working on projects,
so it's a problem that everybodywould like to solve.
Of course, road mortality isn'ttheir only threat.
There's a lot of other threatsto turtle populations, habitat
loss being probably the numberone, but also illegal trade.

(13:59):
So our education program canhelp to inform people on the
other threats that there are.
You know, boating mortality,fishing, bycatch, things like
that.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
So when you talk about educational components and
outreach and learning, teachingpeople, do you actually get
into schools to help the schoolsthe kids learn?

Speaker 4 (14:17):
We do absolutely, and during COVID and also while
we're in the midst of the move,we pivoted a lot to the video
side of things and we still areable to do that.
So we're able to reach schoolsthat are very far away through
video tours and discussions.
But where we can, we do sendour crew out to schools and

(14:38):
senior centers and trade showsand things like that.
We do have a very small butvery, very amazing staff, so
there's only so many things theycan do, but we prioritize what
we think is going to have thebiggest impact on conservation.
But myself I love the littlekids and the questions they ask.
They're so amazing.

(14:59):
If you can introduce them atthat age, they're going to
remember that, especially sincewe have some ambassador
education turtles and they'renon-releasable turtles that live
with us.
So that sort of puts a face tothe name and they can really
remember because they all havecharacters, of course.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Well, when I was elected, I used to see a problem
at, quite frankly, in the localcreeks in Oshawa where I was
elected, whereby there'd beshopping carts and tires and
basically a junk throw in.
And what I did was I establishedand created a new technology
where I brought in a classroomhatchery, fish hatchery program
and put it in along all theschools along the creek and so

(15:42):
we reared rainbow trout in there, the creek, and so we reared
rainbow trout in there.
And one of the key things thatwe did was we used to bring out
the metro east anglers at a fishhatchery and in markham I
believe it would be and it um,they would do electroshocking
and catch the rainbow trout anddo an extraction eggs in
conjunction with the ministry ofnatural resources, and take
them back to the hatchery andget them to an idup stage and

(16:04):
then we put them in the schoolsand then the kids saw these,
whether it was in libraries orthe hallways, and then the kids
actually got a chance to comedown and release them in order
to realize the importance of thestream and change the mindset
of a lot of youth.
And I've did virtually all theschools along the Oshawa Creek
and a number of the other creeksin the Oshawa, and that program

(16:27):
eventually expanded so onegroup picked it up and now I
believe there's over 100 schoolsutilizing that basic technology
that I developed in order tohelp kids, and it's the same
thing that you're doing here isshowing these kids some of the
things with the turtle hatchingprograms, right oh yeah, that's
amazing what you did.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
That's fantastic.
I didn't know that.
Um, yeah, and you hit it bangon is that if people can see and
be involved, they're morelikely to understand and to
learn to love nature.
And, um, we do release eventswhere we can for the less
endangered species so we can getthe public involved, because
that's what really is.
Was um kind of instrumental ingetting people to be involved in

(17:10):
conservation, is understandingit, and I think everybody pretty
much everybody already lovesturtles.
Let's face it, everybody haschildhood memories of turtles.
But the more we can promote ummore stewardship, if everybody
does something, it adds up to awhole lot.
So and then, and if we show,with our education program, we

(17:32):
do surveys and we tally them andwe do post-presentation surveys
, that we follow up after theseason and say, what did you
actually do with thisinformation?
And so we can tally it up andsay, hey, with our education
program we actually tangiblysaved X number of turtles, and
that feels good too, and it alsomakes people realize that they
have an impact and that's sopowerful.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Absolutely, and I know the fish hatchery program.
We actually put well over ahundred thousand swim up fry
back into the streams in thearea.
But it was very interesting andwhat we did was we got to the
Kiwanis Clubs in Oshawa theSitnam and a number of the other
clubs to pay for the buses tobring the school kids down.
And the interesting part that Ifound was when the process

(18:14):
started, you know you had yourparents who were attending and
kind of just to helpers to be onthere, and as soon as the
electroshocking started to takeplace, the parents I remember
one specifically hey, and theypushed the kids out of the way
to get in to look to see becausethey couldn't believe what they
were seeing.
So it was really interestingthat the outreach was not only

(18:35):
for the kids, who found itamazing and a full cycle for
them to be able to see theextraction into the egg stage
and then to release them back tothe fry back in, but the
parents and the teachers gettinginvolved to that level as well.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Oh, absolutely.
That's kids.
It's certainly worth educatingthem in themselves and getting
them inspired, but they go homeand talk to their parents and
their friends and other kids.
We have one display in oureducation center that's it's a
giant mock-up of an eco passageand it was, and it was made by
Parks Canada that lives with usright now.
So the idea is that kids canplay in it and have fun looking

(19:08):
at the pictures inside and theparents outside.
There's all kinds ofeducational things that they can
read on how they can help.
I think people for the most partpeople do want to help, but
they just don't know where tostart.
So we also started a network onour website.
It's called the Ontario TurtleConservation Network.
We started this in conjunctionwith Parks Canada too.

(19:30):
It helps to connect people,maybe people that want to get
involved or people that areinvolved and they want to learn
from others or to collaboratewith others.
So it's the network of everyonedoing turtle conservation work
across the province and it's aninteractive map so you can see
who's doing what, where you cancontact them.
So then, if we get a lot ofinquiries, we want to help.

(19:52):
We've seen a problem in ourarea.
How do.
We do it so they don't have toreinvent the wheel.
We can connect them with othercitizens doing huge projects in
their area.
It's also for biologists andscientists, so I love that.
Part of my job is thenetworking and putting pieces
together that can help eachother and knowing that it's
going to lead to somethingreally impactful.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Now you mentioned about the 9,000 eggs.
So what is the?
Is it all?
Turtles breed at the same timeof the year, so they're all
laying eggs at the same time.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
In Ontario.
Yeah, it's a bit variable, butJune is the nesting time.
Now as many males get hit onthe road as females.
So far we've only seen males.
So far this year.
They come out first and thenJune is the time for nesting for
all species.
It's a trend that you see.
First you see the species, thenthat species, but June is a

(20:51):
crazy month and then it goesback again to males and females
and some of them will have morethan one clutch in a year.
But yeah, june is the crazy time, so that we're just preparing
for that right now.
And because, yeah, because thefemales come in and they're
they're pretty badly injured sothey can't be released in time
to lay their own eggs, so weinduce them and collect them.
Or, if they sadly don't survive, we're able to still collect
the eggs, hatch them and then,even though they're not going

(21:12):
back to their home wetland, thebabies will and help to
perpetuate their genes.
So right now we're alsoplanning for the releases, so
they'll be released across theprovince as they're coming in
for the releases.
So they'll be released acrossthe province as they're coming
in.
So the hotline staff probablyhas the most difficult job, I
think, of the whole place iscoordinating.
That you can imagine.
I think last year we did like10,000 calls or something we

(21:34):
tallied.
So it's a bit crazy, but that'sthe way they come in and that's
the way they go home, and a lotof it is networking with
volunteers as well that aretrained on how to do releases.
So it's a really nice networkto see all these people come
together for this common cause.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Well, if you're getting 10,000 calls, from my
perspective that's a good thingbecause people are knowing where
to call and who to call aboutthis stuff, when a lot of other
cases I think that people theydon't know where to call.
To be honest, I know one time Ifound a hit turtle, a Blanding's
turtle, and it was just outsideof Fenland Falls, between

(22:21):
Fenland and Kirkland, betweenFenland and Kinmount, anyways,
up in that area in there, and Iwas quite surprised.
This was quite a while ago, itwould be 20 years ago or 25
years, well, 25 years or more.
Anyways, the turtle had beenhit by a car and I could see it

(22:41):
was injured.
So I stopped, I got out and theshell had been broken.
I didn't see a lot of blood andthings like that.
So it's, and I don't haveenough background or experience
with turtles to know I didn'tknow where to call or who to
outreach to.
So, believe it or not, I ducttaped the shell back together
and released the turtle backinto the stream or into the

(23:04):
marshland in an area where itwouldn't be close to the road,
again hoping that it wouldsurvive, not knowing where else
to try and take or assist it.
But some of us try to do thethings that we can, and
hopefully that turtle would beone that's still around.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, and back then we only started up being in
existence in 2002.
So you, probably there wasnowhere to take them to
individual, but we're helpingthe population and that
population is vital to a healthywetland and with turtles it's.

(23:52):
It's really an easy sell from aconservation point of view,
because if people aren't reallyinto turtles per se, they they.
The use of them for humans isvery tangible.
So being part of a healthywetland is essential because
that's where a lot of ourdrinking water comes from, and a
healthy wetland acts like afiltration system for the water

(24:16):
that we drink.
So people say, oh, so turtleshelp to keep that healthy and
that benefits me.
So it's a really easy pitch.
Really, wetlands have anotherhave many other useful functions
too.
For instance, nowadays, whenwe're seeing lots of floods,
that's often because wetlandshave been removed and they act

(24:37):
like a sponge to soak up thatwater as needed.
So there's all kinds of greatuses.
So so, from a conservationpoint of view, they've been
around 200 million years, sothey've been around longer than
dinosaurs.
So for themselves, it's so coolto be able to help save them.
We can learn so much from them.
Physiologically, they do thingsthat are just amazing.

(24:58):
They can regenerate spinal cord.
They can live in almost zerooxygen.
They can store sperm for years,so all these really cool things
we can learn about.
Plus, they help to keep theenvironment healthy so that we
have a healthy drinking watersource.
But yeah, um, our phone numberis on our website, or you will.

(25:18):
You're welcome to publish itand if people can call we're
right now eight o'clock in themorning till eight at night for
calls across the province andwe'll help that turtle get
immediate care and brought intous so that they can be released
back.
They'll go back where they camefrom.
They'll go back to their homewetland.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, so Sue.
You mentioned other rehabcenters.
Come in to learn, so are thereother rehab centers that take
care of turtles?

Speaker 4 (25:44):
There are.
We're the only hospital inCanada that is dedicated
exclusively to turtles and we'realso accredited by the College
of Veterinarians, so we're averitable hospital.
There's lots of other centersthat do some turtle sew and
rehabilitation work, that arerun by rehabilitators.
They may have a veterinarianwho helps them out occasionally,

(26:07):
but they don't often haveveterinary staff.
So we can help them to learnhow to do the basics, and they
do an amazing job.
And then if the turtle needsongoing care or surgery, they're
welcome.
We will take any of those andwe do that out of our budget, so
they'll be sent to us for thesurgery, et cetera.
So, yeah, lots of great placesout there.

(26:29):
For sure, ontario's got a bigrehabilitation network.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Well, I found it interesting.
You mentioned aboutregenerating spinal cord.
I did not realize that, and Iknow that there's a lot of
research taking place, forexample, with a, a mushroom
called lion's mane, in that itreconstitute neural pathways in
the brain and spinal column andthe spinal cord and in order to
help alleviate things likeAlzheimer's, dementia,

(26:57):
parkinson's and things alongthose lines.
So, quite frankly, some of theresearch in the spinal cord area
with turtles may be assistivein other areas that could lead
to other breakthroughs forpeople.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Yeah, yeah, so interesting.
I didn't know that.
About the mushrooms, yes, sointeresting.
I mean, when I first startedworking with the turtles, I used
to honestly think I was gettingcases mixed up, because I
thought this one cannot bewalking.
Now he's got his spinal cordsevered and now there's been
actual research to show they canregenerate.
It's not predictable, so somewill go on to full function and

(27:30):
some will not.
So, based on that, though, wetry with pretty much every
turtle that comes in, and thenthe ones that don't go on to
full function, they're placed aseducation turtles, so they
still work for conservation thatway.
Right, yeah, they're prettyamazing, and we just basically
put them back together, providegood nursing, care and support,

(27:54):
and then they heal.
They heal slowly.
As you can imagine, they'recold-blooded, so they do
everything slowly, but it'sprobably more efficient than any
other species I've worked withHi everybody.

Speaker 5 (28:13):
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's favorite
fishing show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right every Thursday,ang and I will be right here in
your ears bringing you a brandnew episode of Outdoor Journal
Radio.
Hmm, now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Well you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.

Speaker 5 (28:33):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Yeah, but it's not just afishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors, from athletes.

Speaker 6 (28:45):
All the other guys would go golfing.

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Me and Garton Turk and all the Russians would go
fishing To scientists.

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Now that we're reforesting, it's the perfect
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To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated
, you will taste it.

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And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
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Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
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Spotify, apple Podcasts orwherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga
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Okay, we're here in Lindsay,ontario, with Rusty, who's up
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Rusty, maybe you can just tellus about your experience with
Chaga.

Speaker 6 (29:44):
Well, I feel that it's had a significant impact on
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I believe in what I'm doing.
I think that Jerry is veryknowledgeable on it.
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(30:05):
certainly knows what he'stalking about, and I like to be
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And I'm 80 now and I'm going totry to enjoy what I've created
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(30:27):
what I've invested in my healthand wellness.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
So you're seeing a big benefit from it an overall
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, don't you?

Speaker 6 (30:43):
Oh yes, we're going to be there for eight months and
we don't want to run out.
So we take it back and we takeit every day and you know I, you
know, I, like I say it's not aproblem for me.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Right, so how do you take it, rusty?

Speaker 6 (31:01):
I put a tablespoon or a teaspoon rather in my coffee
each morning.
Okay, when I brew the coffee,yeah, and I put it in as the
coffee's brewing.
I put that in with it.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Oh, very good.

Speaker 6 (31:13):
And I put a little bit of cinnamon in with it too,
right.
And then I sweeten my coffeebecause, take the bitterness, a
little bit of bitterness.
I use the chaga and maple mixthat you make up for those that
want to be well and stay well.

(31:34):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Well, thanks very much.
We appreciate you taking thetime and sharing your chaga
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back to California.

Speaker 6 (31:43):
Sure enough, all right, okay, thank you, jerry.
Yeah, thanks, rusty.
Thanks, sir, my pleasure.

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(32:42):
around five or six cups of tea.
Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
Now.
You mentioned about the 9,000eggs, and it was predominantly
June where the nesting seasontakes place.
I assume we call it nestingseason.
Yeah, absolutely, and so todevelop a similar program to

(33:10):
educate kids in schools wouldnot be viable at all.
But what kind of?
And what I'm leaning to is.
I recall in the 118 comingacross a turtle that had been
hit by a car and it was a female, and there were eggs lying on
the road.
So what I did was unbeknown,not sure what to do or how to do
it and, quite frankly, notaware of your conservation
center.
I found some soft sand andburied the eggs in the soft sand

(33:35):
.
What do people do in those kindof situations, or how do you?
What advice would you give orwhat would you have given me had
I known about and given you asa call?

Speaker 4 (33:43):
Well, good for you, first of all for caring enough
to stop and also for trying tosolve the problem.
Yeah, so anyone who finds asituation like that, they can
call us, and each case is alittle different.
We're not allowed.
Unless you have a permit, youcannot disturb a natural nest.
But one like that, if a femalehas been hit and the eggs are

(34:04):
lying there, that's considered arescue.
So we can talk them into, talkthem through how to collect
those eggs, keep them aliveuntil they get to us, and then
we can plant them and incubatethem in an incubator and then
hatch and release them.
So, yes, it's pretty amazingbecause all of this does help
towards conserving Ontario'sturtle species.

(34:25):
We have eight species of wildfreshwater turtles in Ontario
and they are all, as youprobably know, all listed as at
risk federally.
So everything that we can do tohelp the numbers is beneficial.
But, yeah, anywhere in Ontariothey can call us, we'll talk
them through.
Our hotline does get very, verybusy, as you can imagine, so

(34:45):
just be patient if it takes alittle while to get back to you,
but we'll get back to everysingle call sure.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
So what are those eight species that you mentioned
?

Speaker 4 (34:55):
what are they?
So we have?
The most endangered are the thewood turtle, spotted turtle, um
spiny soft shell.
So they're they're, they'revery much endangered.
The Blandings it's federallyendangered, provincially it's
considered threatened.
So those are also the ones thatare.

(35:15):
The wood turtle, spotted turtleand Blandings are probably the
ones that are most impacted bythe illegal trade.
And that's a hidden threat thatnot many people are aware of,
but it's huge and has led todecimation of population.
That's why we keep locationssecret, but we also teach people
, you know, if you see anythingsuspicious, to call, because
obviously it goes on behind thescenes.

(35:37):
It's very much a black marketbut there's a lot of work going
on to counter that.
Other species we see mapturtles, musk turtles, those
little guys.
They're very secretive but wesee quite a few in the hospital.
Painted turtles are the onesthat everyone sees out in the
world, so the smaller ones withthe colorful red stripe.
They're now a special concernas well.

(36:00):
And snapping turtles a lot ofpeople see snapping turtles out
and about, so it's not legal tohunt any of them anymore.
A snapping turtle was removedfrom that a few years back and
that again, a lot of it was dueto public demand, sound science
and a very motivated minister atthe time who pushed that

(36:21):
through.
So having a voice can make abig impact.
So the eight species, and wesee all eight.
Obviously we see the morecommon ones more commonly, but
we do see a fair number too.
We have spotted turtle, wood,turtle blanding, spiny softshell
in regularly.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Right, and I recall back when oh, that would be late
60s, early 70s I was at afriend's cottage, john Bickle,
john Henry Bickle, on PigeonLake, and there was a public
lunch beside his, just over fromhis cottage, and a five-ton

(37:03):
truck showed up with justbasically sidewalls and they
went out and they were comingback and they were catching
snapping turtles to take back tothe States for turtle soup.
And these things were huge, Imean, and I asked them, you know
like how strong are they?
And he kind of took like abroom handle and put it in front

(37:24):
of one of the large ones inthere and it just reached out
and snapped it in half rightaway, which was shocking to us.
But to see something like thatand to see the turtles like that
and then taking them down.
And then I heard other storieson Rice Lake where individuals
would catch them, and this one Iwas told what he would do would

(37:45):
be he would actually drill ahole in the corner of the shell
and then put a chain on it andthen fed it groundhogs all
summer long until the Americanscame up from the States and then
they would sell these turtlesto the Americans who went who
would take them and make theminto turtle soup, which I found
shocking to hear that those sortof things took place, but these

(38:06):
are the kind of stories thatprobably people never even heard
about.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, it's kind of sickening,isn't it?
But snapping turtles, you couldlegally hunt them until
relatively recently and nobodywas really tracking how many
were taken.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Right.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
You had a legal amount you could take, but
nobody was tracking and theywere at the time.
The argument against was howcan that be sustainable in a
species where we've shownscientifically that the loss of
even relatively few adults youcan never catch up?
the population can't catch up,it's been estimated that a
snapping turtle has to live 50or 60 years to even have a

(38:42):
chance of replacing themselvesin the population.
So if you're taking thoseadults, that's never going to
you're going to lose.
You're going to lose a species.
So I was glad to see that umthem removed from legal, being
able to be legally hunted andalso, as you pointed out, the
way that they're, they weredoing it not exactly humane, so,
and it doesn't mean it's notstill going on, but it's, it's

(39:08):
um, oh yeah, but it's it's notstill going on, but it's oh yeah
, but there has to be a startsomewhere in order to move
forward and the things that I'mhearing.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
I know I was up near Chapelleau, ontario, and I was
talking to a grader operator ona back road, basically, and we
got into a conversation and hesaid that he was telling us that
he had to get because the roadsdidn't look like they needed
grading and he was having abreak.

(39:35):
So I said you know how comeyou're grading?
And he said well, we have tostop grading this road by I
can't remember the date in Junefor a period of time because to
allow wood turtles to nestbecause it was an area where I
guess wood turtles nested alongthe road and utilize these back
roads.
So there are things that aretaking place and things like

(39:57):
Northern Development Mines andMTO, ministry of Transportation
Ontario, are taking those thingsinto consideration.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
Yeah, definitely, it's moving forward, for sure.
And that's again, it's whereeducation is key.
And that's not just education,that's where education is key
and that's not just education ofkids, but everyone Like.
We've had people come up to uswhen snapping turtles were still
legally hunted, when we wouldjust educate on their plight and
the species in general, we hadpeople come up and say we didn't
know and we don't need to eatsnapping turtles.

(40:24):
We've caught them, our familiescaught them for decades, but
we're going to stop having heardthat.
So education is key and mostpeople do want to do the right
thing and unfortunately theillegal trade is financially
motivated.
But the good thing about thatis now that penalties are
getting stiffer and stiffer andI monitor that quite closely
through organizations thatspecialize in that and yeah,

(40:48):
they're getting very stiff, notjust fines but jail sentences,
because the reason I guess thatit was so appealing to collect
them and they would be shippedinternationally was that it was
good money and the penaltieswere a lot stiffer than, say,
drugs.
So now that that's changing,hopefully that will act as a bit

(41:09):
of a deterrent, but it's awhole area that a lot of people
don't know about.
So, again, if we can educatethe public, and they leave them
a phone number of the MNR tocall if they see anything
suspicious.
That can be followed up on.
So it's again everybody workingtogether.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Yeah, I know twice.
I called the M&R Ministry ofNatural Resources because pet
stores that I was in appeared tobe selling rare exotic
soft-shelled turtles, and sothey would send a conservation
officer, a CON, to do a study,to report, to find out, to make
sure everything was legitimate.

(41:46):
And lo and behold, I don't seethose rare form of turtles in
the pet stores anymore.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, and that's reporting things like that is
key.
And maybe the pet store didn'tknow or maybe they did and it
was, I'm not sure.
But those types of things, pluskeeping native species of any
wildlife, it's not legal to keepthem in captivity unless you
have a permit for them.
So a lot of people didn't knowthat too, and a lot of people

(42:14):
too they think they're doingdoing the turtle a favor by
taking them in and housing them.
So again through, our we got.
A lot of people say, oh, I kindof had this at home for the last
10 years because they'returtles as long as they're
healthy and they haven't beenkept with any other turtles and
we know where they came from,they can quite often be

(42:35):
repatriated.
So that feels good too Because,again, a lot of people that you
know if they've had some ofthem have had them for decades.
We have one education turtle,patty, who's now 40 something.
He was bought as a hatchlingfrom a pet store.
The people again back thenthere wasn't really the
regulations that there are now,the or the awareness, so but

(42:56):
he's getting pretty big and hecan't they.
Again they came to one of oureducation programs and said okay
, we, we, um, so we're gonnahave to confess we have this
snapping turtle as a pet um, butI, we're gonna hand him over to
you.
So he's lived with us for thelast 15 years.
Unfortunately, because they gothim from a pet store, we don't
know where he came from.
He could have come from theStates or anywhere in Canada.

(43:18):
So we're not allowed to releasethem unless we know where they
come from and very good soundreasons for that.
So he lives with us.
We give him as good a life aswe can.
Actually Probably he's gettingrather fat.
So I think he's doing reallywell A new big enclosure and a
new center.
And he's great for dispellingthe myth of the really

(43:42):
aggressive snapping turtle,because the only reason they're
aggressive on land're notaggressive in water is because
they they don't have thecapacity to hide in the shell
like other species.
Right, and they're big andlumbering and slow.
So if they weren't aggressivethey would be extinct by now
because they would be good prey.
So, but nothing in the wildmesses with an adult snapping

(44:03):
turtle.
So that's why, uh, they'reaggressive, just to protect
themselves, but he's, I mean.
The beauty with turtles too isthat they're just totally
instinctual in so many ways thateven if he had been raised for
decades in captivity, he couldtheoretically be released, but
only if we know where he camefrom and if he's cleared of any

(44:25):
health issues and if he hasn'tbeen with any other turtles.
But they revert to the wild soquickly.
It's amazing to see, and that'swhat makes rehabilitation and
release of the hatchlings sosuccessful, because there's no
parental care.
So they have what they need inthem already and all we have to
do is provide good careinitially, get them healthy and

(44:47):
release them to a suitableenvironment.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
So I have my pastor.
He told me his kids had aturtle and they had gone away
and they had plus, they also hada cat and they had somebody
coming in to look after thehouse while they were going away
I don't know what it was,whether it was on conference or
on holiday or whatever and sothey had somebody come in and

(45:16):
when they got back the peoplelooking after the house they
said, oh, you're not going tobelieve this, but somebody must
have slipped a turtle throughthe mail slot in the house on
the front door and it wascrawling around in the house.
So we took the turtle and wereleased it back into the
environment.

(45:36):
Oh no, not knowing, it wastheir pet turtle that had, I
guess, gotten out of itsenclosure and was wandering
around through the house.
So they said they went for acouple of months back to this
place looking for their pet, thekid's pet turtle, and some of
the stories that you hear likethat it's just kind of

(45:57):
surprising.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Oh, my goodness.
Yes, for sure.
And yeah, that's a whole othertopic Pet turtles.
A lot of pet turtles areobviously not native and the red
eared slider is one of the mostcommon.
And we do have a problem withpeople releasing them Again,
they think they're doing theturtle a favor and they maybe
are finding, you know, they getawfully big.

(46:19):
They buy them as hatchlings.
They get very big and they'rehard to take care of.
So they think, oh well, we'llrelease them in a local wetland.
But that's definitely not thething to do.
We're finding that they're mostlikely spreading diseases to
the local population.
They're out there, they'rereproducing.
So red-eared sliders are theexception to the rule.

(46:41):
They kind of they'll go,survive anywhere.
A lot of species are veryspecific about where they want
to go, but they'll surviveanywhere.
A lot of species are veryspecific about where they want
to go, but they'll surviveanywhere.
So we certainly would hope thatpeople do not release their pet
turtles, and that again comesdown to education from the very
start.
When they're going to take aturtle as a pet, they need to

(47:01):
know they're hard to take careof and they get big and they
live a long time.
So if you want a turtle forlife by all means.
But yeah, a lot of people buythe hatchlings and think that
they are.
That is their size.
We always get some brought infrom the wild that are released
pets red-eared sliders, andwe're softies, so if they're

(47:23):
injured we'll fix them up, butthen we'll find homes for them
Again.
Sometimes we've at any one timetime we have 2,000 turtles
housed with us, so we don't havea lot of space so we have to
release them.
But I mean, sorry, we have notreleased them, we have to adopt
them out.

Speaker 6 (47:40):
Right.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
But one year, I think , we had 35 or something brought
in and it's hard to find homesfor them.
Right, brought in and it's hardto find to find homes for them.
But right, yeah, it's.
We don't.
You know it's not their faultthat they were released or that
they're not a native species.
So we don't euthanize them, butwe certainly wouldn't release
them right so.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
So how long does it take for turtle eggs to hatch?

Speaker 4 (48:07):
it depends on the temperature.
So so about 60 days give ortake.
So we usually, if we startgetting them in June, they start
hatching in August andinterestingly, most of the
species in Ontario.
The sex of the hatchlingdepends on the temperature that
they're incubated at.
So we can create any proportionthat we want to.

(48:32):
And because half of the onesgetting injured on roads or
killed are males and half arefemales, we always incubate for
50-50 males and females, andthen we can be sure that we're
replacing what is being lost inthe population.
Some of them, if they'reincubated at a lower temperature
, they'll take longer to hatch.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
So explain what you mean by 50-50 and the
temperature settings for that.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
So, yeah, so, because generally, as a rule of thumb,
a higher temperature will getmore females and a lower
temperature will get more males.
There's exceptions to that, butwe, for most species, will make
sure that they're at atemperature that actually gets
half males and half females, sothat way, when they're released,
we know that we're putting backwhat is lost, which is half 50%

(49:25):
males and 50% females, and thattends to be this.
This is what's called a pivotaltemperature for each species.
That you can be pretty surethey've shown.
You know, the people have donestudies and they it shows that
you get a good ratio of halfmales, half females.
The other thing you can do isincubate half at a high
temperature and half at a lowtemperature, but it's just

(49:46):
easier to get that onetemperature that hits them both.
So all our incubators are setup that way, by species and by
their specific temperature, andwe have one room that is a giant
incubator that acts as that,because we don't have enough
incubators to house all the eggs.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Right.
Well, I know last week was thefirst time that I Great.
Well, I know last week was thefirst time that I saw a turtle
on the road.
It was in an area where Istopped the car and assisted it
and put it back into the marshbecause it got into a spot where
it would have been hit.
It was just a blind spot on theroad and the turtle appeared to
be, in my opinion, I don't knowaround 30, 35 years old.

(50:25):
How do you age, or how canpeople age a turtle, or gauge,
or how long do turtles live?

Speaker 4 (50:32):
Well now that is a whole topic we could spend all
day on.
It's been one of myfascinations since I got
involved with turtles is how canwe age them accurately?
And the short story is there'sno way to accurately age them.
You can judge whether they'reobviously hatchlings way to
accurately age them.
You can judge whether they'reobviously hatchlings, juveniles
or adults, by size and by thesecondary sex characteristics.

(50:54):
For instance, painted turtlemales have very, very long front
toenails when they're mature.
Age and maturity depends on thesex and also what part of the
world they come from.
So the warmer areas probablymature a bit quicker, grow
faster because they have moretime to grow.
But the age, yeah, if you goabout 15 years, it would be

(51:20):
pretty safe for most species toreach maturity.
And what was I going to say?
I've lost my train of thought.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
How long they live.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Oh, yeah, of course, how long they live.
Yeah, that's the whole basis ofit.
So you cannot accurately agethem.
They do get growth rings, sortof like tree growth rings, but
they're not accurate really andalso, if they're old enough the
rings will wear off.
They don't have teeth, so youcan't age them by their teeth.

(51:53):
And if they lived thousands ofyears you could age them that
way, just like you age fossils.
But we think they live mostspecies, 100 or more years.
But you cannot accurately agethat and there's been nobody
following them for long enoughto get the accurate age.

(52:15):
But Blanding's turtles havebeen followed for quite a while
and they know that a turtle thatthey started following that was
mature when they started, so 15, 20 years old, and they've been
following it for 70 years.
So that's we know those.
That turtle is at least 90, 95years old and we always thought
that snapping turtles lived alot longer than Blanding's

(52:37):
turtles.
So yeah, it's a bit of a mysteryand I've talked to oh,
everybody, everyone, the carbondating, everything in this.
There's just no way toaccurately age them.
But we know, definitelysnapping turtles put over 100
years, some of the other speciesmay be a bit less like painted
turtles, maybe closer to 50years, but, yeah, long-lived

(52:58):
species and but they really haveto be, uh, that long-lived in
order to keep a populationhealthy.
As we're mentioning that ittakes many, many decades to have
a chance of replacingthemselves in the population.
You got to live a chance ofreplacing themselves in the
population.
You got to live a long time toreally keep that population
healthy and that works for them.
That life history works.

(53:24):
Until humans are added into themix and you start losing a lot
of the adults, then it's yeah,you tip the balance and it's
hard to catch up.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
And Sue.
One of the things that I foundis most of the turtles that I
assist when they're on the road.
And well, first of all shouldmention that I had a discussion
with Stefan, my brother-in-law,who was talking about how,
because he was a truck driverhow can people hit things like
turtles I mean, they're so slowand everything else on the road.
I said, stefan, it's not thefirst car.

(53:52):
You have a row of cars all in arow.
The first one can see theturtle, but the next one's
wondering why is that carswerving?
And all of a sudden it's toolate.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
Exactly, and you know there's luckily very few people
who would hit them deliberately.
It's just that sometimes asmall one, it can look like a
rock in the road or a pothole.
People may not even notice it.
And snapping turtles?
Of course they're big, you cansee them, but sometimes there's
no way to safely avoid themwithout causing a vehicle

(54:25):
collision.
And we see a lot of injuries onsnapping turtles that reflect
that.
Where people they go, I don'tknow what to do.
Do.
So they straddle them and theturtle isn't killed, but the top
of the shell is scraped away asa result and often, because
their head can't retract in theshell, the head is badly damaged
as well.
So, yeah, it's, and I think themore people that are aware the

(54:47):
better.
And you see people all the time.
When I stop for a turtle now tohelp it across the road, always
in the direction it's going bythe way, always, um, often I'm
not the first or I'll stop andsomeone else will pull in behind
and uh and stop too.
So a lot of people are awareand the number one thing we
always say if you're going tostop and help a turtle across
the road, please make sure yoursafety is number one, just

(55:11):
because we don't want peoplegetting injured helping a turtle
.
But again, more and more peopleare aware, so they're slowing
down when they're going throughwetlands or they're keeping
their eyes open and then, ifthey can safely do so, they're
stopping and helping them acrossthe road.
And the reason we do it in thedirection that they're going is
because they know where theywant to go.
They haven't survived formillions of years by getting

(55:34):
lost.
So they, they know where theywant to go, even if it makes no
sense to us.
So the the water might be attheir back, but they may be
going forward.
Maybe they're going to adifferent wetland, maybe they're
going to find a mate or to dosome do their nesting.
So always in the directionthey're going, or else they'll
just go back again.
But we have this.
I mean there's so many kindpeople out there.

(55:54):
I've had young kids bring inturtles in their.
They found injured on road andthey're on a dirt bike.
We've had truck drivers carryturtles in their truck and bring
them into us.
We've had.
So everybody kind of wants tohelp, I think.
And, as I say, it's very rarethat they're hit deliberately.

(56:15):
It's just they cross roads andthey're slow and they're not
very visible.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
So and Sue.
One of the other things that Ifind is like this one stopping
turtle that I dealt with lastweek just absolutely covered
with moss everywhere growing onit, and the other thing is a lot
of the other ones now I see alot of leeches on a lot of the
turtles.
Is there something that peopleneed to do, or to concern, or

(56:40):
just allow them to continue onthe way they're going without
dealing with any of those sortsof things?

Speaker 4 (56:46):
Yeah, most of those things are natural.
You know they spend especiallycoming out of hibernation.
Sometimes they look likethey've got half a landscape on
their back, They've got mud orthey've got moss or in the
summertime even they have moss.
It looks like flowing hair.
But that's natural.
And leeches there's alwaysleeches out there.

(57:07):
They'll hook on Occasionally.
They can become.
We've had a couple brought inthat were the turtles were very
debilitated and the leeches outthere they'll uh hook on.
Occasionally they can become.
Uh, we've had a couple broughtin that were the turtles were
very debilitated and the leecheswere kind of overwhelming them,
um, and who knows what camefirst, but uh, there were huge
numbers of leeches.
So in that case we'll we'llremove the leeches to uh give

(57:28):
the turtles a break.
But um, and we don't knowexactly if they transmit
diseases.
It's possible.
But leeches exist out there.
They are part of the wildwetlands, so for the most part
they hitch a ride and get offand that's fine.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
So, case by case, yeah, Well, I have to tell one
story, otherwise it would be notappropriate if I didn't.
When I was Minister of NaturalResources I had a new chief of
staff, kim, come in and we oneof the Pierre who's been on a
podcast a couple of times wantedto play a little bit of a

(58:07):
practical joke, bit of apractical joke.
So what we had happen was wehad somebody call in saying that
a rare yellow spotted turtlehad been hit on the highway and
they wanted to rehabilitate it.
So we then had somebody I hadcontacts at U of T contact the

(58:32):
minister Kim's office and saylook, we understand, the rare
turtle has been exact.
We're enacting section four ofpolicy, number 4756.
And we are demanding the rightsto this turtle to rehabilitate
it.
And of course Kim's starting toget a bit concerned.
So then I had somebody in thepremier's office saying the

(58:54):
premier has heard about thisrare spotted yellow turtle and
is demanding a briefing note onit.
Now Kim's getting in a bigpanic and this is going on.
This poor person it was kind ofinitiation break in and of
course all of us are just she'sin a panic.
Well, the premier's office iscalling now and we have to get
this briefing note?

(59:15):
Where is this briefing note?
And now the U of T is in hereand they're demanding the rights
to the rehabilitation of thisrare turtle, and it's going on
and on and on.
So finally, after probably aweek and a half, maybe two weeks
, we took a.
It was just a rubber turtle andwe painted yellow spots on it
and put it in her desk.
And then I sent her a note.

(59:36):
I said, kim, enough is enough.
Take care of this rare spottedyellow turtle.
It's in your top right drawerof your desk.
And she opened it up and foundthis rubber turtle.
I don't know how to talk aboutit today.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Oh, that's hilarious.
Well, it shows how much shecares, I guess Good for her.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
So Sue tell us how can people find out more
information about the OntarioTurtle Conservation Centre, or
how can they get in touch withyou, or how can they contact you
if they find that they need aturtle that needs rehabilitated.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Okay, well, number one thing is, during the busy
season, call rather thanemailing.
If you find an injured turtle,call, because sometimes the
emails get a little backed upbecause the calls are priority
and that's 705-741-5000.
So that's the number to call ifyou find an injured turtle.

(01:00:30):
We also have various otheroptions when you call in.
So if you need information onif you found a nesting turtle,
what to do, which is basicallyleave them alone, if you have a
nest you want to protect, how todo it.
So there's all kinds ofinformational things there.
For general information on whatwe do, our website is a good
source OntarioTurtleca.

(01:00:54):
For general information.
We have just our info atOntarioTurtleca.
And then, if you want to getinvolved in helping out with the
Turtle Taxi, we always needmore volunteers, even though we
have so many During the busytime.
We always need more becausethere's so many rides a day and

(01:01:16):
most people will combine a tripto pick up a turtle or deliver a
turtle with what, where they'regoing and everyone's, you know,
traveling a lot in the summer.
So that works really well.
And that's a turtle taxi atontarioturtleca.
Um, you can come and visit us.
Uh, you can again call us andget more information, you can

(01:01:37):
visit our website.
We're always looking forvolunteers.
We have volunteers not only tohelp bring the turtles to us,
but also to help take care ofthe 2,000 turtles we have in
care at any one time.
The beauty of the Turtle TaxiProgram is there's no commitment
time.
The beauty of the Turtle Taxiprogram is there's no commitment
.
So we have a mass email thatgoes out.

(01:01:57):
If a turtle needs a ride, say,okay, ride needed from X to X or
relay or part of the ride, andif you happen to be going that
direction, you get in touch andsay, hey, I'm going there, I'll
take it, and if not, you justignore it.
So that way nobody is committedto a certain day or time.
So that works really well.
But, yeah, always happy toanswer questions and always

(01:02:18):
happy to meet people.
If they come on in.
You can drop in anytime.
We do have a little store onsite that's part of our
fundraising initiative withgreat turtle T-shirts, caps,
everything like that.
We have an online store, solots going on all the time.
As I said, we just moved in, sowe're just working on the
outside right now, but we dohave the signs up now, so anyone

(01:02:41):
local is welcome to come in andwe look forward to, yeah,
answering questions or helpinganyone out with their turtle
projects.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Well, thank you very much, Sue.
We very much appreciate youtaking the time and enlightening
us on turtles and things to doand how to deal with turtles
should you come across them inthe province of Ontario, because
it's a long time history, asyou mentioned.
They've been around forthousands of years and just
something a little bit differentthat people are learning about
out there under the canopy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
Well, my pleasure.
Thank you so much for having meon and I look forward to
talking to you again sometime.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Thank you very much.
I really appreciate that Okaytake care.

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to
build one of Canada's mosticonic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
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But this podcast will be morethan that.
Every week on Diaries of aLodge Owner, I'm going to

(01:04:00):
introduce you to a ton of greatpeople, share their stories of
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Meanwhile we're sitting therebobbing along trying to figure
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(01:04:21):
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