Have you ever noticed those tall, feathery grasses swaying in the wind along roadsides and shorelines? What looks beautiful might actually be one of Ontario's most destructive invasive species. This eye-opening conversation with Derissa Vincentini from the Ontario Invasive Species Centre reveals the silent threat of Phragmites australis, an aggressive European reed that's rapidly transforming our wetlands and costing the province $100 million annually.
Derissa, the Northern Ontario Regional Coordinator for the Ontario Phragmites Action Program, breaks down why this seemingly innocuous plant creates environmental havoc. Growing up to five meters tall in dense monocultures, Phragmites outcompetes native vegetation, alters hydrology, blocks shoreline access, and creates serious fire hazards. Most concerningly, it's displacing ecologically crucial plants like wild rice and threatening species-at-risk like Ontario's turtles by destroying their habitat.
The conversation delves into the fascinating science behind how Phragmites spreads—primarily through underground rhizomes rather than seeds—and the various control methods being deployed across the province. From specialized amphibious equipment to community volunteer efforts, we explore the $11 million program working to coordinate a landscape-level response to this invasive threat. Success stories from Long Point and Turkey Point demonstrate that with proper management, we can reclaim our wetlands and shorelines.
Whether you're a property owner concerned about waterfront values, an outdoor enthusiast noticing changes in familiar landscapes, or simply someone who cares about Ontario's ecosystems, this episode provides critical knowledge about identifying and addressing one of our most significant environmental challenges. As Derissa aptly puts it, "Once you see it, you can't unsee it."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everybody.
I'm Angelo Viola and I'm PeteBowman.
Now you might know us as thehosts of Canada's Favorite
Fishing Show, but now we'rehosting a podcast.
That's right Every Thursday,ang and I will be right here in
your ears bringing you a brandnew episode of Outdoor Journal
Radio.
Hmm, now, what are we going totalk about for two hours every
week?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Well, you know, there's going to be a lot of
fishing.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and
how to catch them, and they wereeasy to catch.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
We're going to be talking topeople from all facets of the
outdoors From athletes.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth
and Turk and all the Russianswould go fishing To scientists.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
But now that we're reforesting- and all that, it's
the perfect transmissionenvironment for life.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
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, you will taste it.
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And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you
are.
Outdoor Journal Radio seeks toanswer the questions and tell
the stories of all those whoenjoy being outside.
Find us on Spotify, applePodcasts or wherever you get
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Speaker 6 (01:15):
As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons
of our natural world becomeharder and harder to hear, but
they are still available tothose who know where to listen.
I'm Jerry Ouellette and I washonoured to serve as Ontario's
Minister of Natural Resources.
However, my journey into thewoods didn't come from politics.
(01:36):
Rather, it came from my time inthe bush and a mushroom.
In 2015, I was introduced tothe birch-hungry fungus known as
chaga, a tree conch withcenturies of medicinal
applications used by Indigenouspeoples all over the globe.
After nearly a decade ofharvest use, testimonials and
(01:59):
research, my skepticism hasfaded to obsession and I now
spend my life dedicated toimproving the lives of others
through natural means.
But that's not what the show isabout.
My pursuit of this strangemushroom and my passion for the
outdoors has brought me to theplaces and around the people
that are shaped by our naturalworld.
(02:20):
On Outdoor Journal Radio'sUnder the Canopy podcast, I'm
going to take you along with meto see the places, meet the
people that will help you findyour outdoor passion and help
you live a life close to natureand under the canopy.
So join me today for anothergreat episode, and hopefully we
(02:40):
can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
Well, I hope everyone's havinga great day and, as always, you
know what to do.
If you got any questions orwant to see any shows or hear
any shows, let us know.
We'll do what we can to getthem out.
And, as always, we thank ourlisteners throughout Canada, the
(03:01):
States, all around the worldand really appreciate that and
of course, that's what makes ithappen is our listeners.
So any questions or comments oranything like that, we'd be
more than happy to do what wecan for you.
Now I got to tell you I was outwith my chocolate lab again
this morning Anson Gunner, sameas usual, and the reishi should
be.
It looks like it's going to bereishi the mushroom.
(03:24):
It's a little bit early thatI'm monitoring.
It's growing on hemlock but ithasn't given all the traditional
reishi indicators.
It's still kind of a oh theshame of it.
It's kind of a dome shape sofar, but it hasn't panned out
quite yet.
I've got to give it some time.
But this is the time of yearthat spruce sprigs are very
(03:46):
prevalent and they are great.
I've already taken out.
Oh, I had the pastor out.
We played a round of golf theother day and we're walking by
and I grabbed a spruce sprig offa tree and I ate it and he
looked at me like what are youdoing?
I said, try it.
Oh, it wasn't quite that bad.
He was quite surprised.
And the spruce sprigs.
(04:07):
There's a number of things youcan do with spruce sprigs.
What I do with spruce sprigs isI'll consume them straight out,
I'll pick them and let themwhen I do talks about them high
in vitamin C.
You know the same old, same oldthat when Europeans first came
over this is what they use toget rid of scurvy and stuff like
that.
But if you look at them,they're a very, very kind of a
(04:29):
light green color and very softand pliable when they first come
out.
And usually we pick a whitespruce or a black spruce, it's
not a problem, even blue spruceif you can find it, it's not a
problem to pick.
And then there's a couple ofways.
I've taken a few sprigs andI've put them in like a
500-milliliter water bottle,left them overnight and it's a
really refreshing, very citrusykind of taste to it in a bottle
(04:53):
of water.
And also we make a spruce sprighoney.
Now, a buddy of mine, roley, isa German background and they
make this spruce sprig honey andwhat we do is we fill a pot
with spruce sprigs and then,once it's full, then we fill it
with water and then we boil thatfor about I did it about 40
(05:15):
minutes, he said 20, but I didit 40 and then you strain out
all the spruce sprigs.
Now the boiling, and it's aslow boil, it's not a rolling
boil, it's just a slow boil.
It's not a rolling boil, it'sjust a slow boil.
It extracts the material outthat.
And then what we did was hetold me to mix it about one to
one with a sugar kind of and Iguess you could use honey or you
(05:36):
could use maple syrup and youmix it with that until it's
really thick and then you boilit down until it's got a honey
consistency.
And I got to tell you I've gotsome jars of spruce sprig honey
that have been there for abouteight years and it just lasts
forever in a day seems to, atleast with us.
I let people try it.
They're quite shocked at it.
Very tasty and high in vitaminC, plus a lot of other nutrients
(05:59):
as well.
That's very good for people.
Not only that, but I come out,I get back and my bird feeder's
cleaned out.
I just filled this thingyesterday.
What's going on?
Anyways, I turn around.
Sure enough, chipmunks at thefeeder take it and they just
kind of rip through the seeds toget to the sunflower seeds and
throw everything all over theground, eliminating the chance.
(06:20):
So what do I do?
Same as usual.
I go get a jar, my jar ofVaseline, and I grease the pole
the feeder's hanging from andthey can't climb the pole and
that way it keeps the chipmunksor the squirrels.
We have more problems withsquirrels, black squirrels and
red squirrels than we do withchipmunks, but it happened to be
the chipmunk.
I saw up the pole this time andthey try to go up the pole.
(06:51):
When it's a grease pole withVaseline they kind of slide back
down and they give up.
So that way I can make surethat the birds that we try to
attract them.
We got quite a few of variosand warblers and canaries and
goldfinches as well coming tothe feeders now, which we kind
of enjoy watching.
But today we have something alittle bit different.
It's something I'm seeingeverywhere and it's just like I
never really noticed it until Iactually somebody pointed out to
me, and I was actually tomwarden, who used to be the
(07:12):
president of ducks unlimited,canada, and they have a spot
down turkey point and they hadthis major problem with
something called phragmites.
And we have Darissa Vincentinifrom the Ontario Invasive
Species Centre joining us.
Well, darissa, we reallyappreciate you coming on and
(07:34):
talking about Phragmites.
So tell us a bit about yourself, tell us about your background.
First of all, darissa.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
Sure, yeah, so I live in Sault Ste Marie, ontario.
I was kind of born and raisedand left for two years to attend
university but came back andactually moved back to the
university here in Sault SteMarie.
So I graduated with a Bachelorof Science in Biology with a
certificate in Geomatics atAlgoma University, and I've
(08:01):
worked as a forest researchtechnician for about six years,
both with the Ontario Ministryof Natural Resources as well as
Natural Resources Canada, beforestarting with the Invasive
Species Centre where I am now.
I started as a communityscience coordinator for the last
four years and just recentlymoved into this new role as the
(08:21):
Northern Ontario RegionalCoordinator for our Ontario
Phragmites Action Program.
So that just started this yearand I'm really excited to talk
about Phragmites.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
Now, where did you go to school?
Speaker 7 (08:35):
So I started at University of Ottawa in the
Environmental Science Program,took a liking to GIS and mapping
, and so I was going to transferinto a general biology program
that would allow me to do aminor or a certificate, and all
of that was offered back home.
So I decided to move home andcontinue my education at
Oklahoma University.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Okay, and what's geomatics?
Speaker 7 (08:58):
Geomatics is like the study of mapping, so using GIS
or geographic informationsystems to explore the world
around you.
Basically, you can use it inhealthcare, in politics, in
(09:18):
anthropology, you can use it inthe environment.
Of course, that's kind of moreof an obvious one, I think.
But yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
So, Drissa, how do you use it in healthcare?
How is geomatics used inhealthcare?
Speaker 7 (09:33):
It really depends on what questions you're asking.
So you can use it to identify,maybe, how close the majority of
populations are to hospitals.
You can use it to identifyroutes for ambulance drivers and
first responders.
You can use it to identify,maybe, demographics that might
(09:53):
be more Yep exactly, or evenlike a long time example from
very, very early days is like ifthere's an outbreak of a
certain bacteria, like cholerafor example, you might be able
to map that back to a centralpoint of contamination in water.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
Now do a lot of agencies, such as hospitals,
utilize geomatics.
Speaker 7 (10:23):
I don't know, to be honest.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Neither do I.
That's why I'm asking, becauseit's like I don't really know.
Well, I know about geomatics,where it's utilized in the
Ministry of Natural Resources,having been the minister, and a
lot of the things that takeplace there, but I had not
really heard about it beingutilized elsewhere, such as in
hospitals and politically andthings along those lines.
So I thought, gee, I neverheard about that.
But, now it's the person totalk to.
Speaker 7 (10:44):
I don't know how many hospitals might be taking
advantage of that, or if it'smore, maybe from like a research
standpoint looking into healthcare, but it certainly has
applications in everything thatwe do as humans.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Well, I got to tell you we've got.
We spend a lot of time in theSioux.
I've got a lot of relatives upthere.
My dad was born in the Sioux,st Marie, just off second line,
so we know it well.
And and every time we get up wegot to spend some time at Wacky
Wings.
Oh yeah, that's a plug for themand usually we get in in the
fall when we're doing some chagahunting up.
(11:23):
That way we will come in on ausually on a monday night or a
thursday night for wacky wingsnight in the sioux, because
that's when the football gamesare on.
So I bring my sons up and weenjoy watching some nfl games up
in the sioux on that.
Plus they got some great stuffup there.
I know the sioux well but it'schanging quite a bit, is it not?
Speaker 7 (11:50):
Oh, absolutely, and I would say it's a good thing.
We're growing, we have a lot ofdifferent activities and I've
seen a lot of good expansionsand development and investment
back into the city and a strongsupport local movement and it's
really been, it's really beengreat to see uh I'm, I love
living here, especially becauseof the connection to nature oh,
(12:11):
yeah, yeah, it's not far awayand I, I know my, my uncles and
now my cousins camp uh up rangerlake roadway.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Uh, certainly spend a lot of time up that way and
enjoy the, the fishing and theactivities that take place up
there all the time, and it'sjust great to see.
And you know it's last fall wewere up and there was a new
section they were putting in.
Some the forestry companieswere doing a a big cut I can't
remember it was a thousandhectares or something like that
and they're putting in roads andit was kind of interesting that
I found that what they weredoing with those roads was they
(12:43):
cut the new roads in and it's alot of gravel up there.
So when they're the ground it'spretty easy to find a lot of
gravel.
So you hit a lot of gravel, nota problem.
But they had blocked off withhuge boulders so cars couldn't
drive, vehicles couldn't driveinto this new road section.
I wonder what are they doingthat for?
Well, it had been raining quitea bit so they wanted it to dry
(13:06):
out with the sun to get exposed,to make sure that these new
roads so that the forest countrycompanies could access the
forest to be able to harvestwhichever they were harvesting
at the time, which is quite abit of stuff, to be honest, and
to dry the roads out to makesure that new vehicles weren't
coming in and putting ruts inthe roads before I had a chance
to dry out, which was kind ofinteresting.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I never even would have thoughtof that.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Yeah, neither did I, until I spoke to them and asked
them why they blocked it off.
They told us that.
But you know, the one thing isbecause there used to be a lot
of forest industries in theSioux Great Lakes pulp and paper
which that building there inthe Sioux is kind of amazing to
see.
I don't know if you've everbeen in it or not.
It's kind of that.
It's almost like a redsandstone down by the bridge.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
Yeah, I haven't been in.
So there's the two buildingsand there is the canal district
or the mill, like the, that'sbeen redeveloped and used and
I've been in there.
That's where there's a coupleof restaurants and an event
space venue within there andeverything.
But then there's the other onethat I don't think is open to
(14:13):
the public at all because it'sdecommissioned.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
Oh, that's too bad, because that would be a great
spot for it's like right on thewater, it's a great.
I imagine they could open it upto, you know, to make
restaurant facilities in thatarea, just by, you know, just
north of City Hall, there.
And yeah, that red brick, itwas amazing, the color of it is.
It kind of stands outsignificantly.
(14:37):
But inside and the historyinside they had the old Grand
Trunk Railroad map from when itwas established along northern
ontario and they showed all thethe rooting for that, which I
found amazing.
But when I saw it was closed andgreat lakes, pulpit and paper
pulled out of there, I was kindof disappointed and always
wondered what would happen there.
And I know when I was minister,there's huge numbers of
(15:00):
individuals that fish along thepier right there and I tried to
put a fish cleaning station inthere for the city through the
Northern Ontario Heritage Fund.
Yeah, but the problem was theycouldn't get running water to be
able to utilize the facility.
It would be like a washroomfish cleaning station right
there, right To make it a loteasier for a lot of people and
have it effectively done,because there's a number of
(15:22):
municipalities that have thatand it really, really helps
promote a lot of the fishing,and the fishing that takes place
right there is.
It's fairly significant becauseyou get a lot of a lot of
different species, even atlanticsalmon that'll come up along
those rapids there, and a lot offly fishermen and other anglers
as well.
So it was a bit of an economicstimulus that I tried but didn't
work out because they couldn'tget running water to the
location but that that's anotherstory.
(15:44):
So tell us about Phragmites.
Okay, first of all, let peopleknow what we're talking about.
What is Phragmites, and kind ofgive us some background.
Speaker 7 (15:54):
Yeah for sure.
So Phragmites is a perennialgrass, so it's in the Poaceae
family.
It is an invasive species herein Ontario and Canada and it's
native to Europe.
So it's also commonly referredto as European common reed as
well.
So you might hear that it waslikely introduced kind of more
(16:18):
than once, like multiple timesthroughout the 1800s, as
settlers are coming over andintroduced, both intentionally
and unintentionally, soaccidentally brought over on
contaminated soils and stuff, orjust through horticultural
trade.
It's kind of a pretty lookinggrass.
It grows quite tall, up toabout five meters tall.
(16:39):
It's got these reallypronounced seed heads on them
that make it like almost likethe pompous grass that people
use in ornamental arrangements.
It has that similar feel to it,so it is kind of cool looking
and pretty looking.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Yeah, the seed head is kind of like a fluffy kind of
like a feathery kind of fluffyfeather kind of.
You know those boas.
Speaker 7 (17:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
They made it like that kind of a seed head right.
Speaker 7 (17:06):
Yeah, exactly.
So that's, you know, one of thereasons why it might be
desirable.
But as an invasive species, youknow it causes a lot of
negative impacts as well.
So it typically will growunchecked.
It doesn't have any competitorsor it doesn't have defense
mechanisms.
(17:27):
Our native species don't havedefense mechanisms to kind of
combat it.
It doesn't have any predatorsthat are going to eat it like it
does back in Europe in itsnative range, where it had
millennia to grow and adapt withalongside those species that it
has over there.
So it goes unchecked.
(17:49):
It grows really rapidly,reproduces really quickly, and
then that can cause a bunch ofnegative impacts to our economy,
society and our environment.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
So now, what would eat this in Europe that is not
available here?
Speaker 7 (18:06):
Yeah, there's a couple moth species that we are
looking into for biologicalcontrol.
Um, I don't know for sure, butI assume that there's probably
some herbivore mammals that alsoeat it.
I just know a little bit moreabout the moths just because of
the biological control program.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Right, and you mentioned some of the impacts as
well.
Tell us about some of theimpacts and how it's impacting
society.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Oh, absolutely so.
One of the ways is I mentionedthat it can grow quite tall, so
about five meters tall.
It also grows very, very, verydense, so it creates these
monocultures.
That's essentially just a wallthat you can't see through and
it really likes habitats likeditches, highway corridors and
(18:58):
especially wet areas, soshorelines, wetlands and that
type of thing.
So when it's growing along theshoreline, that can impede your
access to water, beaches, boatlaunches, so it might be more
difficult to go swimming, to gofishing and just any sort of
water recreation.
It can impede your view ofthose shorelines.
(19:19):
I mean, I don't know about you,but especially up here in Sault
Ste Marie, there's tons ofgreat views along the shorelines
, like here on St Mary's Riverand Lake Superior and a lot of
inland lakes.
So you know, it would just, itwould suck to like go up to a
lake and you can't see anything,yeah, and that could actually
(19:41):
decrease property values if youhave a shoreline property as
well, and because it likesditches and highways, creating
that wall of sight too.
So that increases, you know,collisions.
It impacts road safety.
You know there's a number ofdifferent ways, one of the big
ones that we are talking aboutnow, especially the last.
(20:03):
You know, two years ago we sawsuch a huge increase in wildfire
instances but also in theseverity of wildfires.
Is these monocultures andsevere density stalks and stands
as they grow and then die.
They stay standing and then newgrowth comes up in between and
that's why it becomes so dense.
(20:24):
But now you have such a highlevel of biomass dry biomass
built up in that spot so that'svery combustible.
So that could be a pathway forincreasing.
You know the instances ofwildfires is.
You know, if someone flickstheir cigarette butt out the
window which I hope no one'sdoing that still, but if it
(20:47):
happens, you know that could bean ignition and then that could
start a wildfire, just becauseit hit exactly where Fragm's is,
which is lining our highways inSouthern Ontario.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
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Speaker 6 (22:14):
And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga
Health and Wellness.
Okay, we've got Rob fromHamilton here, who's had some
success with the Chaga cream.
Rob, can you tell us about it?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, I've used it on blemishes, cuts, just basically
all around healing Anythingkind of blemish.
It speeds it up really quick.
Great, it speeds the healingprocess up really well.
It leaves no marks and doesn'tstain or smells okay.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Okay, thanks, rob, appreciate that.
You're welcome.
We interrupt this program tobring you a special offer from
Chaga Health and Wellness.
If you've listened this far andyou're still wondering about
this strange mushroom that Ikeep talking about and whether
(23:09):
you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of
interest to you.
To thank you for listening tothe show, I'm going to make
trying Chaga that much easier bygiving you a dollar off all our
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All you have to do is head overto our website,
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This comes with 15 tea bags perpackage and each bag gives you
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Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
(23:52):
So, drabisa, some of thesethings that you mentioned now
could it potentially be used insignificant areas where turtle
crossings take place, forexample?
So, and I know a lot of Ontarioand when you're driving from
Toronto to the Sioux, you'reseeing a lot of turtle-proof
fencing that people look andwhat the heck is that for?
(24:13):
It's like only a couple feettall two, three feet fall and
very thick.
Now, if this grows that dense,could it be utilized to deter
turtles from crossing the road?
Or have anybody even thought ofsomething like that?
Speaker 7 (24:27):
You know what that's like.
A great idea.
Unfortunately, phragmitesactually really likes the
wetlands that turtles also like,so it wouldn't stop at just
that fence line barrier.
It would invade, you know, theentire wetland if given the
opportunity.
So by putting it in placeacross you know all the highways
(24:48):
, like that, you would actuallybe giving it that opportunity to
invade all those wetlands andareas where turtles are nesting
and where they're living.
So you know, turtles can'treally move through it very well
.
It does impede their mobility.
So you're right there.
But that means that they're notgoing to have access to their
own habitat either, and most, ifnot all, I believe, of the
(25:12):
turtles in Ontario areconsidered species at risk in
some level right now.
So we certainly don't want tobe adding to that impact.
It changes the hydrology of thesite.
It transpires a lot quickerthan our native plants, so it
could dry up the site.
It shades out the site too.
(25:35):
So turtles are ectothermic.
They really rely on basking inthe sun for maintaining their
body temperature, so it wouldn'tallow for that.
There's a number of ways thatthey actually negatively impact
well many species at risk, butespecially turtles.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
Yeah, so, and I know when I mentioned past president
for Ducks Unlimited Canada, tom,they have an area down at
Turkey Point that essentiallyPhragmites had taken over and
that's what it was my discussionwith him about that that
inspired me to get on and talkabout this.
I mean, when people start tosee it, then they'll see it all
over the place.
(26:10):
Now, and I pointed it out, as Imentioned, I was out with my
pastor earlier in the programand talked about eating some
spruce sprigs and I said nowwe're going to record this and
what is that?
And so I said well, there'ssome there, there's some there.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
There's some there.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
There's some there and it's just everywhere now.
Absolutely One of the thingsthat Tom had mentioned was that
it had choked out all the wildrice in the area where they were
, and so he had worked with NCCNature Conservancy of Canada who
came in and basically got ridof all the Phragmites and it's a
(26:49):
rather large part of down onLake Erie where they are I don't
know the amount of the size ofthe land, but I'm positive it's
well over 100 acres of it thatthey came in and got rid of it
all and wild rice has beencoming back now.
So that's the kind ofmonocultural thing that you're
(27:10):
doing and that'll chase outother plants like wild rice and
cattails, bulrushes and things.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Oh, absolutely, yes, it just creates.
So monoculture means that it'snot.
There isn't any other species,plant species growing within it
either.
So, yeah, absolutely, itdisplaces our native species,
like wild rice, which is, youknow, not just important for the
ecosystem and habitat forwildlife and everything, but
(27:40):
also very culturally importantand is an agriculture, food and
things like that, right.
So a number of layered impactsthere.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
So, darissa, how would they get rid of all the
phragmites and how did they, inlarge area like that, like a
hundred acre swamp?
What do they have to do inorder to, to normalize it, to
bring it back to the way it was?
Speaker 7 (28:01):
well, there's a number of different ways that
you can manage phragmites.
Um, typically, in a large arealike that, you can use these
large machines, um, that,essentially, it's almost like a
mini tank amphibious tank thatgoes in the water and it cuts
the stems below the water leveland what that's doing is
(28:25):
drowning the root system.
Now, when you do that, though,you have to make sure that you
collect all of that biomass thatyou cut, because it can
actually reproduce and grow newstalks and stems from each node
on the plant.
So it's a huge operation to doit.
You usually kind of takesections at a time, and it's
(28:46):
multi-year operation, butclearly it can be successful.
We know that it can be done.
You can also use herbicide.
There is one herbicide that isavailable in Ontario that can be
used over water and two thatcan be used over land.
So you know, you can take amultifaceted approach.
(29:07):
You can say, okay, this areawould be great for manual
control.
This area, you know, is alittle bit more difficult.
Let's use the chemical control.
You can look at it from anintegrated pest management
standpoint.
Right, you can also getvolunteers involved.
I mentioned the cutting todrown method, so if there's a
sparser area.
You can get volunteers outthere with cane cutters and they
(29:31):
are loppers and they can cutbelow that water level as well,
which is, you know, great forbuilding that community too.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Yeah, I know, when Purple Loose Strife came in the
second marsh, I took the familyout and we did a lot of trying
to pull the Purple Loose Strifeout of the second marsh, which,
to be perfectly honest, it wasnice to do, nice to get people
involved, but it was notsuccessful.
Just, it was not at the levellevel to.
Even when we pulled it all outof the second marsh and with the
groups that we had there, uh,and I brought my kids and my
(30:03):
family and my wife and all thatand we were all out there
pulling um, it's still.
If you go back to the secondmarsh now, guess what?
You're gonna be finding quite abit of purple loosestrife.
But so the phragmites is itexpanding?
Is it mostly through seeds orbirds collecting it and taking
it to new locations?
Or is it wind that's moving itaround?
(30:25):
Because I'm not sure.
Are there birds that consumethe seeds in the Phragmites?
Speaker 7 (30:30):
Well, it's a great question.
So Phragmites actually spreadsthrough three mechanisms.
So it does spread by seed,although all of the thousands of
seed heads that you see, orseeds in the seed heads that you
see, wow that was a lot of Cs.
You know they're not very viable, so you're going to have their
(30:52):
low viability.
So you're going to have somethat are still viable and are
able to reproduce, but somearen't.
But their primary mechanism forspreading is through rhizomes,
and then they can also spreadthrough above ground stellones
as well.
So those are two mechanisms forit to continue spreading.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
Now we've had Bev DiLeonardo, a master gardener,
on, who talked about rhizomes.
Maybe you can, just so ourlisteners know what a rhizome is
you can kind of give us abreakdown of what that is,
because a lot of peoplelistening to the program may not
understand what a rhizome is.
Speaker 7 (31:23):
Sure, I mean coming down to like.
The most basic definition isit's a piece of root that can
produce a new shoot, so itdoesn't have to be attached to
an existing population.
It doesn't have to be attachedto an existing population.
It doesn't need to be attachedto an existing shoot.
It can be fragmented or cut offor removed from the source and
(31:44):
still produce a new shoot.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Yeah, so when I was up this morning, I was checking
my stinging nettle patch, whichis basically rhizomes, and I
think in the past we describedit as basically stems that grow
underground that produce newshoots.
Yeah, yeah, and the stingingnettle patch that I was at today
that's how it's expanded slowly, is through rhizomes and so,
yeah, so this is the way it'smostly growing, but it seems to
be just about every little bitof swampy area that's out there.
(32:16):
Now it's just taking over.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
Yeah, so I mean.
So those are the three waysthat phragmites can establish
and spread across the landscape.
But the mechanisms or thevectors for that spread it could
be nature, like you werementioning.
You know wind can't strongwinds especially, you know, can
spread those seeds.
Water too, especially if it'son shorelines, like Lake Huron,
(32:40):
georgian Bay for example.
If there's strong winds andwaves coming up, then that could
disrupt and disturb that soil,moving some of those rhizomes
and stoloms.
And it could be animals too,you know they can collect the
seeds on them, they can movethem just by brushing up against
them.
But really the main mechanism ofspread through North America is
(33:02):
through human activity, bothrecreation you know average
shows like UNI but also throughindustry.
So there's, you know, anytimeyou're moving along the
landscape there's a potentialfor bringing things with you,
whether that's mud and debris onyour boots or your ATVs, on
(33:22):
tires of your vehicles or onyour boat, you know, moving
actual soil or plant material aswell.
We've seen instances wherehunters aren't aware of what
that species that they're usingfor blinds are, so they'll use
Phragmites stalks for theirblinds.
I mentioned the ornamental useas decoration as well earlier.
(33:45):
So those are kind of ways thatas individuals we might
unintentionally contribute tothe spread.
But that also means by knowingthat that you can prevent doing
that.
And then there's the industryside as well, so through
equipment and heavy machinery,through construction or movement
(34:05):
of contaminated soils andaggregates for construction.
So those are two big ones.
And why we see it a lot onditches and roadways and things
like that is before we knew whatto do, how to do and what it
was.
You know we wereunintentionally spreading it
through that mechanism.
And then improper management.
(34:27):
So if you're going along theroadway and doing veg management
then you're likely mowing a lotand that could also continue
its spread.
Speaker 6 (34:36):
So and I imagine, because it grows so tall and
when you see it you're alwaysseeing it blowing in the wind
that a lot of the wind would.
It's kind of like it's alwaysbest to plant your corn in
squares because it's windpollinated a large percentage of
corn crops.
I see a lot of people have tworows and wonder why they don't
get much corn.
(34:56):
If they take that same area andplant it in a square, a lot of
wind pollination takes place,but I would imagine the wind
significantly moves a lot of itaround.
But, like you said, a lot ofthe seed does not germinate in
order to produce new groups.
But when you get high plantslike that and the way it looks
like it's blowing in the wind, Iwould imagine that plays a
significant factor in moving itaround and the way it looks like
(35:16):
it's blowing in the wind.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
I would imagine that plays a significant factor in
moving it around.
Yeah, it definitely could playa factor, but, like I mentioned,
it doesn't reproduce by seedsas much as it reproduces by
rhizomes, right yeah.
At least here in North America.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
Yeah, it's just kind of surprising.
I'm seeing it everywhere, nowthat Tom pointed it out, and
everywhere I go and everybody Imentioned it to, it's just like
this appears to be a problem.
So how much of a problem is itand how are we going to get
control of it?
Is it going to take over a lotof our wetlands and dry them up?
Speaker 7 (35:45):
essentially, you know what?
That's a great question.
So we know through a survey,that phragmites is estimated to
cost Ontario $100 millionannually.
So we know that it's a severeproblem and this is ongoing.
But we've also seen successstories, like at Long Point and
(36:08):
Turkey Point right.
So we know that something canbe done to manage this species.
So we do have a program it'scalled the Ontario Phragmites
Action Program that addressesthe phragmites situation through
coordination and collaboration.
There's been a lot of wonderfulwork happening for a long time
(36:28):
by community groups andmunicipalities, like you've even
mentioned.
But we're trying to make thateffort go a lot further by
breaking out of those silos andmoving towards that landscape
level kind of management.
So the Ministry of NaturalResources invested $11 million
over three years to the InvasiveSpecies Centre, as well as our
(36:49):
partners at Nature Conservancyof Canada, to kind of co-deliver
this program, and we're reallyexcited about it.
Kind of co-deliver this programand we're really excited about
it.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
So is there funds that municipalities are able to
apply for to assist them indealing with it?
Speaker 7 (37:07):
Yes, absolutely so.
We have funding programs.
We also have genetic testing.
So one thing that I didn'tmention is that there is a
native, relative and subspeciesof Phragmites that looks very
similar.
They do have characteristicdifferences, but they also
overlap as well.
So if you had like two specimensthat were typical side by side,
you'd be able to tell thedifference.
(37:28):
But then sometimes, dependingon site conditions, nutrient
levels, what have you?
They start to exhibitcharacteristics of each other
almost, and it's if you were so.
It's like a spectrum.
So sometimes in the in themiddle, you could get them
confused quite easily,especially the more north you go
.
So in northern ontario, nativeand invasive phragmites look a
(37:51):
lot more similar.
So we have genetic testing thatcan help with that, so that
you're making sure that yourmoney, time and effort is going
towards managing the undesirableinvasive phragmites instead of
the desirable native phragmites.
(38:12):
Activities monitoring, you know, working through whether it's
permits or clean equipment,protocols, things like that, and
really working to fill the gapsthat are identified from the
on-the-ground partners, such asmunicipalities, conservation
authorities, indigenouscommunities, ngos, industry.
You know everybody has a roleto play right.
Speaker 6 (38:33):
Yeah, so, jerissa, when a municipality gets
involved, they make applicationfor fundings, and how typically
would a municipality utilizethat funds to manage it?
Are they looking for volunteergroups, are they buying
equipment or are they justhiring staff to deal with it?
Or typically, maybe you cankind of enlighten us.
Speaker 7 (38:52):
Yeah.
So I mean all of the above.
I would say the funding can gotowards capital equipment, it
can go towards staff funding, itcan go towards hiring
contractors, it can go towardsorganizing community events.
It is primarily focused onaction towards management and
(39:15):
monitoring of invasivePhragmites.
So a little less focus on theoutreach and education component
, just because we feel likewe've done a lot of that.
So we really want to make surethat we're packing that punch
and getting to the managementside of things.
One of the ways that we're kindof doing this and on the
landscape is because we knowFreg knows no boundaries, right?
(39:39):
So it impacts all of us.
So we create regional and localmanagement working groups,
which we call FregMighty'smanagement areas, and invite all
of those different groups somunicipalities, conservation
authorities, indigenouscommunities etc to the table to
talk about that kind of moreholistic approach to monitoring,
(40:00):
management and prevention.
So then municipalities might beapplying on their own.
We do have it open to everyone.
But if you're working in agroup like that, then they're
working together and they couldapply together.
And then if you're working onit, you're clearing it out on a
roadway, then you're going to,you're going to manage that
(40:23):
piece.
That's in the ditch, but you'realso going to be able to manage
, you know, onto the propertyand behind that maybe is owned
by the university or you know,work with the landowner to
manage that property and behindso that it's not going to
reestablish and reinvade right.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
Right, so now are Mississippi Valley supplying
directly to Invasive SpeciesCenter, or where do they make
application for that?
Speaker 7 (40:48):
Yeah, so our fund is called the Invasive Phragmites
Control Fund and you can find iton the Ontario Phragmites
Action Program website.
You can also find it throughthe Invasive Species Centre's
website as well, but the OntarioPhragmites Action Program
really outlines all of thedifferent things that we offer,
(41:09):
including the funding, so thatwould be the best place to find
more information.
It's funding all the way up to$50,000 per individual applicant
, I believe, although that mightchange year over year depending
on what's available, althoughthat might change year over year
depending on what's availableand it is closed currently for
(41:30):
this season, but we will belooking to reopen it later in
the year.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Okay, so it's something that might be
available this year still.
Speaker 7 (41:41):
So it would be available for next year's
management or activities kind ofthing.
So you would apply that laterthis year, early next calendar
season, for next growing seasonmanagement Right.
Speaker 6 (41:55):
Okay.
Okay.
So now are groups andorganizations like Ducks
Unlimited getting involved?
Because I know there was aprogram that I worked with Areas
of Concern on the Great Lakeswhere Norm Sterling, when he was
Minister of the Environment andestablished a fund to clean up
a lot of these areas and, to behonest, the bureaucracy within
(42:16):
the ministry when the ministerhad moved on they were kind of
like all right.
So he established a I can'tthink it was a $5 million or $7
million fund, something alongthat way, to assist in cleaning
up the AOC's areas of concern.
But once the minister moved onout of that ministry they just
kind of sat idle Until such time.
I happened to meet thecoordinator who was in charge of
(42:36):
it and he says oh yeah, what doyou do?
And I says, well, I manage thisfund.
And I said what do you do?
Well, he says we're not gettingany work.
I said, really tell me aboutyour work.
So he told me and I said haveyou ever talked to groups like
Ducks Unlimited?
And no, why would I do that?
Well, because DU has a matchingfund basis.
So whatever funds wereavailable there, they bring up
(43:01):
Ducks Unlimited money from thestates to help clean up a lot of
these areas and help out.
And guess what?
We, uh, doubled the funding forit through du partnerships and
cleaned up a lot more areas andgot very active and worked out
very well.
Is it something like this thatpotentially might be available
as well?
Speaker 7 (43:16):
or have you looked at that?
That's wonderful, um.
We do work closely with ducks,unlimited um in ontario.
We we have ontario kind ofsectioned into four regions, so
I work on the Northern Ontarioregion, there's Southwest,
there's Central, but our Duckspartner is the Eastern Ontario
regional coordinator, um, andthen they also work on our
(43:38):
biological control program tosee if that is something that
we're able to kind of roll outacross the province as well.
So they work closely with theresearchers on that.
But I'm not sure in terms ofthe funding.
That's something I can bringback to the team and discuss.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
Yeah, because it'd be a great way to double the
amount of funds that areavailable.
And from the amount offragmenties that I'm seeing
around, I'm like this isstarting to.
You know, if it hadn't been forTom, I wouldn't even thought
about it.
I just looked by and, oh, thatlooks nice, you know the, the
way, those tall grass, kind ofblown in the wind, the way it
was.
And now, and they mentioned itto me and I realized, you know,
we got a problem here, let'stalk about it.
Speaker 7 (44:14):
That's why you're on.
Once you see it, you can'tunsee it.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
Well, yeah, it's, it's surprising and, and, and
the amount of impact that it'shaving.
So, uh, darissa, what kind ofdepths of water does it grow in
in?
Like, as you mentioned, itcleans up a lot of swamps and
things like that.
Is there a depth that'll stopgrowing or producing?
It's kind of like, I don't know, wild rice.
Speaker 7 (44:36):
There's certain depths that work well and don't
work well for it yeah, you knowthere is, but I don't know that
number off the top of my head.
But you will find it more onshorelines rather than in like
deep basins.
You know it caps out at howtall it can grow to access light
and oxygen, so I just don'tknow what the depth is.
Speaker 6 (44:59):
Okay, offhand yeah, and the reason I think I'm
leading to something I had theRoyal Botanical Gardens on that
was dealing with a carp controlprocess where they actually were
using old Christmas trees tokind of block off areas to stop
carp from coming in.
And to me I'm wondering, hmm,is this another thing that could
(45:20):
be utilized in that area?
But what are the kind of depthsthat it would work if it had
effect?
But you want to make sure it'sdone correctly.
But those are for the expertslike you to determine.
Speaker 7 (45:32):
Yeah, you know it's a tricky situation because it
would take a long time todevelop some sort of protocol to
ensure that it's not spreadingfurther, and you've got to think
of what the risks versus rewardor benefits are.
So, you know, we are reallytrying to focus on management,
reduction in populations,managing the impacts of it.
(45:55):
In some areas, certainly,eradication is feasible.
Still, so, you know, dependingon the site, those are the types
of goals that we have.
Those are the types of goalsthat we have, thinking about
applications for the speciesincreases, risk for further
spread and contributing to thosenegative impacts that we're
(46:15):
trying to avoid as well.
Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
So roughly.
How many municipalities tookadvantage of the program to get
involved last year?
Any idea on something like that?
Speaker 7 (46:28):
Oh, I do or did have an idea.
I don't remember the number offthe top of my head, but it was
quite a few.
It was like close to, if notabove, 100 municipalities that
were involved.
Whether or not they receivedfunding, they were involved in
some way.
Speaker 6 (46:47):
Okay, no, I just wondered because sometimes we
hear about these programs andyou know one or two
municipalities end up beingsuccessful in working with it,
but if you know you get 100municipalities, that's
significant.
And so it's speaking to theconcern raised about this,
particularly in a lot of, Iguess, cottage country where
(47:11):
they have a lot of impacts andyou talk about shorelines and
decreasing values and what theimpact will be there.
Speaker 7 (47:14):
Absolutely no.
We're seeing a great, you know,interest from municipalities.
They're really on the frontlines of these things.
They've been dealing withphragmites for a long time, you
know, whether it was from thismanagement standpoint of
managing the plant or if it wasjust simply managing the
roadways and, you know,protecting sightline visions and
things like that.
So they're always on the frontlines of invasive species
(47:36):
introductions and establishment.
So they're one of our key, youknow, audiences that we're
targeting to work with and beable to, you know, provide them
the means to manage effectively.
Speaker 6 (47:51):
Right, and what's the name of the program for
municipalities?
Again, or groups ororganizations?
Speaker 7 (47:57):
Yeah, so the Invasive Phragmites Control Fund is the
funding program.
Speaker 6 (48:02):
Okay, very good.
So what's the next steps andhow do we move forward?
And so we're working withmunicipalities and groups and
organizations to try and addressit and what other steps are
taking place or how can otherpeople get involved and assist
in trying to manage and dealwith this.
Speaker 7 (48:25):
I would say the first step is visiting the Ontario
Phragmites Action website.
It's justontariophragmitesactionca and
you know learning a bit aboutthe program.
I mentioned that we're kind ofwe separated the province into
these regional areas, so ifyou're keen and interested in
learning more about the program,you can reach out to your
regional coordinator, which isoutlined on the website.
(48:47):
You know who is in charge ofwhich area and that's so that we
can also help connect folks whoare wanting to work on
Phragmites or already doing workon Phragmites to each other
locally to really implement thatlandscape level management
through that coordination andcollaboration.
Speaker 6 (49:07):
So you are mentioned.
You mentioned Long Point,turkey Point.
There are getting somesignificant successes in
managing it throughout indifferent areas, and this is
something that we're hoping tomove forward.
Otherwise, we effectively couldsee a loss of a lot of our
wetlands and things like that aswell.
Speaker 7 (49:23):
Yeah, so the shorelines, especially our Great
Lakes shorelines, those are keyareas that we're trying to work
on.
I mentioned the Phragmitesmanagement areas and we're
slowly kind of fitting in thepuzzle pieces that we have a
Phragmites management areaacross the shorelines,
especially here on Erie Ontariolines, especially here on Erie
(49:52):
Ontario.
So those are ways that we'retrying to mitigate that spread
and impacts along our areas ofconcerns in the Great Lakes.
Speaker 6 (49:56):
All right.
Well, darissa, I reallyappreciate you taking the time
being on the program.
Tell us again how do people getin touch with you to find out
more details, or their areacoordinator, or whereabouts can
they go to find out moreinformation on how to deal with
Phragmites in the province ofOntario?
Speaker 7 (50:11):
Yeah, if you're looking for more information or
to get in touch with yourregional coordinator, just visit
the Ontario Phragmites ActionProgram website and that's
ontariophragmitesactionca.
It's really easy to find us andthat should have all the
information that you need and ifnot, you reach out to your
regional coordinator to find outwhat work's being done in your
area.
Speaker 6 (50:30):
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
I really appreciate you takingthe time and find it very
informative and hopefully thatit was just by chance talking to
you, know mentioned Tom andthat and I started looking and
go.
You know something?
There's something to talk abouthere and give some people some
insight, because I'm sure whenthey're driving down the road
just like I was yesterday byheading up to Halliburton that
(50:52):
seeing this all over the placeand it's having a significant
impact, Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (50:57):
Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (51:00):
Well, thanks, teresa.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to be with us.
Have a great day.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
Thanks, marissa, I really appreciate you taking the
time to be with us.
Have a great day.
Speaker 6 (51:05):
Thanks you as well.
Yeah, and just something alittle bit different of things
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can inspire a few more people tolive their lives under the
canopy.
Well, I hope everyone's havinga great day and, as always, you
know what to do.
If you got any questions orwant to see any shows or hear
any shows, let us know.
We'll do what we can to getthem out.
And, as always, we thank ourlisteners throughout Canada, the
(03:01):
States, all around the worldand really appreciate that and
of course, that's what makes ithappen is our listeners.
So any questions or comments oranything like that, we'd be
more than happy to do what wecan for you.
Now I got to tell you I was outwith my chocolate lab again
this morning Anson Gunner, sameas usual, and the reishi should
be.
It looks like it's going to bereishi the mushroom.
(03:24):
It's a little bit early thatI'm monitoring.
It's growing on hemlock but ithasn't given all the traditional
reishi indicators.
It's still kind of a oh theshame of it.
It's kind of a dome shape sofar, but it hasn't panned out
quite yet.
I've got to give it some time.
But this is the time of yearthat spruce sprigs are very
(03:46):
prevalent and they are great.
I've already taken out.
Oh, I had the pastor out.
We played a round of golf theother day and we're walking by
and I grabbed a spruce sprig offa tree and I ate it and he
looked at me like what are youdoing?
I said, try it.
Oh, it wasn't quite that bad.
He was quite surprised.
And the spruce sprigs.
(04:07):
There's a number of things youcan do with spruce sprigs.
What I do with spruce sprigs isI'll consume them straight out,
I'll pick them and let themwhen I do talks about them high
in vitamin C.
You know the same old, same oldthat when Europeans first came
over this is what they use toget rid of scurvy and stuff like
that.
But if you look at them,they're a very, very kind of a
(04:29):
light green color and very softand pliable when they first come
out.
And usually we pick a whitespruce or a black spruce, it's
not a problem, even blue spruceif you can find it, it's not a
problem to pick.
And then there's a couple ofways.
I've taken a few sprigs andI've put them in like a
500-milliliter water bottle,left them overnight and it's a
really refreshing, very citrusykind of taste to it in a bottle
(04:53):
of water.
And also we make a spruce sprighoney.
Now, a buddy of mine, roley, isa German background and they
make this spruce sprig honey andwhat we do is we fill a pot
with spruce sprigs and then,once it's full, then we fill it
with water and then we boil thatfor about I did it about 40
(05:15):
minutes, he said 20, but I didit 40 and then you strain out
all the spruce sprigs.
Now the boiling, and it's aslow boil, it's not a rolling
boil, it's just a slow boil.
It's not a rolling boil, it'sjust a slow boil.
It extracts the material outthat.
And then what we did was hetold me to mix it about one to
one with a sugar kind of and Iguess you could use honey or you
(05:36):
could use maple syrup and youmix it with that until it's
really thick and then you boilit down until it's got a honey
consistency.
And I got to tell you I've gotsome jars of spruce sprig honey
that have been there for abouteight years and it just lasts
forever in a day seems to, atleast with us.
I let people try it.
They're quite shocked at it.
Very tasty and high in vitaminC, plus a lot of other nutrients
(05:59):
as well.
That's very good for people.
Not only that, but I come out,I get back and my bird feeder's
cleaned out.
I just filled this thingyesterday.
What's going on?
Anyways, I turn around.
Sure enough, chipmunks at thefeeder take it and they just
kind of rip through the seeds toget to the sunflower seeds and
throw everything all over theground, eliminating the chance.
(06:20):
So what do I do?
Same as usual.
I go get a jar, my jar ofVaseline, and I grease the pole
the feeder's hanging from andthey can't climb the pole and
that way it keeps the chipmunksor the squirrels.
We have more problems withsquirrels, black squirrels and
red squirrels than we do withchipmunks, but it happened to be
the chipmunk.
I saw up the pole this time andthey try to go up the pole.
(06:51):
When it's a grease pole withVaseline they kind of slide back
down and they give up.
So that way I can make surethat the birds that we try to
attract them.
We got quite a few of variosand warblers and canaries and
goldfinches as well coming tothe feeders now, which we kind
of enjoy watching.
But today we have something alittle bit different.
It's something I'm seeingeverywhere and it's just like I
never really noticed it until Iactually somebody pointed out to
me, and I was actually tomwarden, who used to be the
(07:12):
president of ducks unlimited,canada, and they have a spot
down turkey point and they hadthis major problem with
something called phragmites.
And we have Darissa Vincentinifrom the Ontario Invasive
Species Centre joining us.
Well, darissa, we reallyappreciate you coming on and
(07:34):
talking about Phragmites.
So tell us a bit about yourself, tell us about your background.
First of all, darissa.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
Sure, yeah, so I live in Sault Ste Marie, ontario.
I was kind of born and raisedand left for two years to attend
university but came back andactually moved back to the
university here in Sault SteMarie.
So I graduated with a Bachelorof Science in Biology with a
certificate in Geomatics atAlgoma University, and I've
(08:01):
worked as a forest researchtechnician for about six years,
both with the Ontario Ministryof Natural Resources as well as
Natural Resources Canada, beforestarting with the Invasive
Species Centre where I am now.
I started as a communityscience coordinator for the last
four years and just recentlymoved into this new role as the
(08:21):
Northern Ontario RegionalCoordinator for our Ontario
Phragmites Action Program.
So that just started this yearand I'm really excited to talk
about Phragmites.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
Now, where did you go to school?
Speaker 7 (08:35):
So I started at University of Ottawa in the
Environmental Science Program,took a liking to GIS and mapping
, and so I was going to transferinto a general biology program
that would allow me to do aminor or a certificate, and all
of that was offered back home.
So I decided to move home andcontinue my education at
Oklahoma University.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Okay, and what's geomatics?
Speaker 7 (08:58):
Geomatics is like the study of mapping, so using GIS
or geographic informationsystems to explore the world
around you.
Basically, you can use it inhealthcare, in politics, in
(09:18):
anthropology, you can use it inthe environment.
Of course, that's kind of moreof an obvious one, I think.
But yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
So, Drissa, how do you use it in healthcare?
How is geomatics used inhealthcare?
Speaker 7 (09:33):
It really depends on what questions you're asking.
So you can use it to identify,maybe, how close the majority of
populations are to hospitals.
You can use it to identifyroutes for ambulance drivers and
first responders.
You can use it to identify,maybe, demographics that might
(09:53):
be more Yep exactly, or evenlike a long time example from
very, very early days is like ifthere's an outbreak of a
certain bacteria, like cholerafor example, you might be able
to map that back to a centralpoint of contamination in water.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
Now do a lot of agencies, such as hospitals,
utilize geomatics.
Speaker 7 (10:23):
I don't know, to be honest.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Neither do I.
That's why I'm asking, becauseit's like I don't really know.
Well, I know about geomatics,where it's utilized in the
Ministry of Natural Resources,having been the minister, and a
lot of the things that takeplace there, but I had not
really heard about it beingutilized elsewhere, such as in
hospitals and politically andthings along those lines.
So I thought, gee, I neverheard about that.
But, now it's the person totalk to.
Speaker 7 (10:44):
I don't know how many hospitals might be taking
advantage of that, or if it'smore, maybe from like a research
standpoint looking into healthcare, but it certainly has
applications in everything thatwe do as humans.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Well, I got to tell you we've got.
We spend a lot of time in theSioux.
I've got a lot of relatives upthere.
My dad was born in the Sioux,st Marie, just off second line,
so we know it well.
And and every time we get up wegot to spend some time at Wacky
Wings.
Oh yeah, that's a plug for themand usually we get in in the
fall when we're doing some chagahunting up.
(11:23):
That way we will come in on ausually on a monday night or a
thursday night for wacky wingsnight in the sioux, because
that's when the football gamesare on.
So I bring my sons up and weenjoy watching some nfl games up
in the sioux on that.
Plus they got some great stuffup there.
I know the sioux well but it'schanging quite a bit, is it not?
Speaker 7 (11:50):
Oh, absolutely, and I would say it's a good thing.
We're growing, we have a lot ofdifferent activities and I've
seen a lot of good expansionsand development and investment
back into the city and a strongsupport local movement and it's
really been, it's really beengreat to see uh I'm, I love
living here, especially becauseof the connection to nature oh,
(12:11):
yeah, yeah, it's not far awayand I, I know my, my uncles and
now my cousins camp uh up rangerlake roadway.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Uh, certainly spend a lot of time up that way and
enjoy the, the fishing and theactivities that take place up
there all the time, and it'sjust great to see.
And you know it's last fall wewere up and there was a new
section they were putting in.
Some the forestry companieswere doing a a big cut I can't
remember it was a thousandhectares or something like that
and they're putting in roads andit was kind of interesting that
I found that what they weredoing with those roads was they
(12:43):
cut the new roads in and it's alot of gravel up there.
So when they're the ground it'spretty easy to find a lot of
gravel.
So you hit a lot of gravel, nota problem.
But they had blocked off withhuge boulders so cars couldn't
drive, vehicles couldn't driveinto this new road section.
I wonder what are they doingthat for?
Well, it had been raining quitea bit so they wanted it to dry
(13:06):
out with the sun to get exposed,to make sure that these new
roads so that the forest countrycompanies could access the
forest to be able to harvestwhichever they were harvesting
at the time, which is quite abit of stuff, to be honest, and
to dry the roads out to makesure that new vehicles weren't
coming in and putting ruts inthe roads before I had a chance
to dry out, which was kind ofinteresting.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I never even would have thoughtof that.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Yeah, neither did I, until I spoke to them and asked
them why they blocked it off.
They told us that.
But you know, the one thing isbecause there used to be a lot
of forest industries in theSioux Great Lakes pulp and paper
which that building there inthe Sioux is kind of amazing to
see.
I don't know if you've everbeen in it or not.
It's kind of that.
It's almost like a redsandstone down by the bridge.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
Yeah, I haven't been in.
So there's the two buildingsand there is the canal district
or the mill, like the, that'sbeen redeveloped and used and
I've been in there.
That's where there's a coupleof restaurants and an event
space venue within there andeverything.
But then there's the other onethat I don't think is open to
(14:13):
the public at all because it'sdecommissioned.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
Oh, that's too bad, because that would be a great
spot for it's like right on thewater, it's a great.
I imagine they could open it upto, you know, to make
restaurant facilities in thatarea, just by, you know, just
north of City Hall, there.
And yeah, that red brick, itwas amazing, the color of it is.
It kind of stands outsignificantly.
(14:37):
But inside and the historyinside they had the old Grand
Trunk Railroad map from when itwas established along northern
ontario and they showed all thethe rooting for that, which I
found amazing.
But when I saw it was closed andgreat lakes, pulpit and paper
pulled out of there, I was kindof disappointed and always
wondered what would happen there.
And I know when I was minister,there's huge numbers of
(15:00):
individuals that fish along thepier right there and I tried to
put a fish cleaning station inthere for the city through the
Northern Ontario Heritage Fund.
Yeah, but the problem was theycouldn't get running water to be
able to utilize the facility.
It would be like a washroomfish cleaning station right
there, right To make it a loteasier for a lot of people and
have it effectively done,because there's a number of
(15:22):
municipalities that have thatand it really, really helps
promote a lot of the fishing,and the fishing that takes place
right there is.
It's fairly significant becauseyou get a lot of a lot of
different species, even atlanticsalmon that'll come up along
those rapids there, and a lot offly fishermen and other anglers
as well.
So it was a bit of an economicstimulus that I tried but didn't
work out because they couldn'tget running water to the
location but that that's anotherstory.
(15:44):
So tell us about Phragmites.
Okay, first of all, let peopleknow what we're talking about.
What is Phragmites, and kind ofgive us some background.
Speaker 7 (15:54):
Yeah for sure.
So Phragmites is a perennialgrass, so it's in the Poaceae
family.
It is an invasive species herein Ontario and Canada and it's
native to Europe.
So it's also commonly referredto as European common reed as
well.
So you might hear that it waslikely introduced kind of more
(16:18):
than once, like multiple timesthroughout the 1800s, as
settlers are coming over andintroduced, both intentionally
and unintentionally, soaccidentally brought over on
contaminated soils and stuff, orjust through horticultural
trade.
It's kind of a pretty lookinggrass.
It grows quite tall, up toabout five meters tall.
(16:39):
It's got these reallypronounced seed heads on them
that make it like almost likethe pompous grass that people
use in ornamental arrangements.
It has that similar feel to it,so it is kind of cool looking
and pretty looking.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Yeah, the seed head is kind of like a fluffy kind of
like a feathery kind of fluffyfeather kind of.
You know those boas.
Speaker 7 (17:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
They made it like that kind of a seed head right.
Speaker 7 (17:06):
Yeah, exactly.
So that's, you know, one of thereasons why it might be
desirable.
But as an invasive species, youknow it causes a lot of
negative impacts as well.
So it typically will growunchecked.
It doesn't have any competitorsor it doesn't have defense
mechanisms.
(17:27):
Our native species don't havedefense mechanisms to kind of
combat it.
It doesn't have any predatorsthat are going to eat it like it
does back in Europe in itsnative range, where it had
millennia to grow and adapt withalongside those species that it
has over there.
So it goes unchecked.
(17:49):
It grows really rapidly,reproduces really quickly, and
then that can cause a bunch ofnegative impacts to our economy,
society and our environment.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
So now, what would eat this in Europe that is not
available here?
Speaker 7 (18:06):
Yeah, there's a couple moth species that we are
looking into for biologicalcontrol.
Um, I don't know for sure, butI assume that there's probably
some herbivore mammals that alsoeat it.
I just know a little bit moreabout the moths just because of
the biological control program.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Right, and you mentioned some of the impacts as
well.
Tell us about some of theimpacts and how it's impacting
society.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Oh, absolutely so.
One of the ways is I mentionedthat it can grow quite tall, so
about five meters tall.
It also grows very, very, verydense, so it creates these
monocultures.
That's essentially just a wallthat you can't see through and
it really likes habitats likeditches, highway corridors and
(18:58):
especially wet areas, soshorelines, wetlands and that
type of thing.
So when it's growing along theshoreline, that can impede your
access to water, beaches, boatlaunches, so it might be more
difficult to go swimming, to gofishing and just any sort of
water recreation.
It can impede your view ofthose shorelines.
(19:19):
I mean, I don't know about you,but especially up here in Sault
Ste Marie, there's tons ofgreat views along the shorelines
, like here on St Mary's Riverand Lake Superior and a lot of
inland lakes.
So you know, it would just, itwould suck to like go up to a
lake and you can't see anything,yeah, and that could actually
(19:41):
decrease property values if youhave a shoreline property as
well, and because it likesditches and highways, creating
that wall of sight too.
So that increases, you know,collisions.
It impacts road safety.
You know there's a number ofdifferent ways, one of the big
ones that we are talking aboutnow, especially the last.
(20:03):
You know, two years ago we sawsuch a huge increase in wildfire
instances but also in theseverity of wildfires.
Is these monocultures andsevere density stalks and stands
as they grow and then die.
They stay standing and then newgrowth comes up in between and
that's why it becomes so dense.
(20:24):
But now you have such a highlevel of biomass dry biomass
built up in that spot so that'svery combustible.
So that could be a pathway forincreasing.
You know the instances ofwildfires is.
You know, if someone flickstheir cigarette butt out the
window which I hope no one'sdoing that still, but if it
(20:47):
happens, you know that could bean ignition and then that could
start a wildfire, just becauseit hit exactly where Fragm's is,
which is lining our highways inSouthern Ontario.
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Hey, thanks for listening Backto the episode.
(23:52):
So, drabisa, some of thesethings that you mentioned now
could it potentially be used insignificant areas where turtle
crossings take place, forexample?
So, and I know a lot of Ontarioand when you're driving from
Toronto to the Sioux, you'reseeing a lot of turtle-proof
fencing that people look andwhat the heck is that for?
(24:13):
It's like only a couple feettall two, three feet fall and
very thick.
Now, if this grows that dense,could it be utilized to deter
turtles from crossing the road?
Or have anybody even thought ofsomething like that?
Speaker 7 (24:27):
You know what that's like.
A great idea.
Unfortunately, phragmitesactually really likes the
wetlands that turtles also like,so it wouldn't stop at just
that fence line barrier.
It would invade, you know, theentire wetland if given the
opportunity.
So by putting it in placeacross you know all the highways
(24:48):
, like that, you would actuallybe giving it that opportunity to
invade all those wetlands andareas where turtles are nesting
and where they're living.
So you know, turtles can'treally move through it very well
.
It does impede their mobility.
So you're right there.
But that means that they're notgoing to have access to their
own habitat either, and most, ifnot all, I believe, of the
(25:12):
turtles in Ontario areconsidered species at risk in
some level right now.
So we certainly don't want tobe adding to that impact.
It changes the hydrology of thesite.
It transpires a lot quickerthan our native plants, so it
could dry up the site.
It shades out the site too.
(25:35):
So turtles are ectothermic.
They really rely on basking inthe sun for maintaining their
body temperature, so it wouldn'tallow for that.
There's a number of ways thatthey actually negatively impact
well many species at risk, butespecially turtles.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
Yeah, so, and I know when I mentioned past president
for Ducks Unlimited Canada, tom,they have an area down at
Turkey Point that essentiallyPhragmites had taken over and
that's what it was my discussionwith him about that that
inspired me to get on and talkabout this.
I mean, when people start tosee it, then they'll see it all
over the place.
(26:10):
Now, and I pointed it out, as Imentioned, I was out with my
pastor earlier in the programand talked about eating some
spruce sprigs and I said nowwe're going to record this and
what is that?
And so I said well, there'ssome there, there's some there.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
There's some there.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
There's some there and it's just everywhere now.
Absolutely One of the thingsthat Tom had mentioned was that
it had choked out all the wildrice in the area where they were
, and so he had worked with NCCNature Conservancy of Canada who
came in and basically got ridof all the Phragmites and it's a
(26:49):
rather large part of down onLake Erie where they are I don't
know the amount of the size ofthe land, but I'm positive it's
well over 100 acres of it thatthey came in and got rid of it
all and wild rice has beencoming back now.
So that's the kind ofmonocultural thing that you're
(27:10):
doing and that'll chase outother plants like wild rice and
cattails, bulrushes and things.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Oh, absolutely, yes, it just creates.
So monoculture means that it'snot.
There isn't any other species,plant species growing within it
either.
So, yeah, absolutely, itdisplaces our native species,
like wild rice, which is, youknow, not just important for the
ecosystem and habitat forwildlife and everything, but
(27:40):
also very culturally importantand is an agriculture, food and
things like that, right.
So a number of layered impactsthere.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
So, darissa, how would they get rid of all the
phragmites and how did they, inlarge area like that, like a
hundred acre swamp?
What do they have to do inorder to, to normalize it, to
bring it back to the way it was?
Speaker 7 (28:01):
well, there's a number of different ways that
you can manage phragmites.
Um, typically, in a large arealike that, you can use these
large machines, um, that,essentially, it's almost like a
mini tank amphibious tank thatgoes in the water and it cuts
the stems below the water leveland what that's doing is
(28:25):
drowning the root system.
Now, when you do that, though,you have to make sure that you
collect all of that biomass thatyou cut, because it can
actually reproduce and grow newstalks and stems from each node
on the plant.
So it's a huge operation to doit.
You usually kind of takesections at a time, and it's
(28:46):
multi-year operation, butclearly it can be successful.
We know that it can be done.
You can also use herbicide.
There is one herbicide that isavailable in Ontario that can be
used over water and two thatcan be used over land.
So you know, you can take amultifaceted approach.
(29:07):
You can say, okay, this areawould be great for manual
control.
This area, you know, is alittle bit more difficult.
Let's use the chemical control.
You can look at it from anintegrated pest management
standpoint.
Right, you can also getvolunteers involved.
I mentioned the cutting todrown method, so if there's a
sparser area.
You can get volunteers outthere with cane cutters and they
(29:31):
are loppers and they can cutbelow that water level as well,
which is, you know, great forbuilding that community too.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Yeah, I know, when Purple Loose Strife came in the
second marsh, I took the familyout and we did a lot of trying
to pull the Purple Loose Strifeout of the second marsh, which,
to be perfectly honest, it wasnice to do, nice to get people
involved, but it was notsuccessful.
Just, it was not at the levellevel to.
Even when we pulled it all outof the second marsh and with the
groups that we had there, uh,and I brought my kids and my
(30:03):
family and my wife and all thatand we were all out there
pulling um, it's still.
If you go back to the secondmarsh now, guess what?
You're gonna be finding quite abit of purple loosestrife.
But so the phragmites is itexpanding?
Is it mostly through seeds orbirds collecting it and taking
it to new locations?
Or is it wind that's moving itaround?
(30:25):
Because I'm not sure.
Are there birds that consumethe seeds in the Phragmites?
Speaker 7 (30:30):
Well, it's a great question.
So Phragmites actually spreadsthrough three mechanisms.
So it does spread by seed,although all of the thousands of
seed heads that you see, orseeds in the seed heads that you
see, wow that was a lot of Cs.
You know they're not very viable, so you're going to have their
(30:52):
low viability.
So you're going to have somethat are still viable and are
able to reproduce, but somearen't.
But their primary mechanism forspreading is through rhizomes,
and then they can also spreadthrough above ground stellones
as well.
So those are two mechanisms forit to continue spreading.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
Now we've had Bev DiLeonardo, a master gardener,
on, who talked about rhizomes.
Maybe you can, just so ourlisteners know what a rhizome is
you can kind of give us abreakdown of what that is,
because a lot of peoplelistening to the program may not
understand what a rhizome is.
Speaker 7 (31:23):
Sure, I mean coming down to like.
The most basic definition isit's a piece of root that can
produce a new shoot, so itdoesn't have to be attached to
an existing population.
It doesn't have to be attachedto an existing population.
It doesn't need to be attachedto an existing shoot.
It can be fragmented or cut offor removed from the source and
(31:44):
still produce a new shoot.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Yeah, so when I was up this morning, I was checking
my stinging nettle patch, whichis basically rhizomes, and I
think in the past we describedit as basically stems that grow
underground that produce newshoots.
Yeah, yeah, and the stingingnettle patch that I was at today
that's how it's expanded slowly, is through rhizomes and so,
yeah, so this is the way it'smostly growing, but it seems to
be just about every little bitof swampy area that's out there.
(32:16):
Now it's just taking over.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
Yeah, so I mean.
So those are the three waysthat phragmites can establish
and spread across the landscape.
But the mechanisms or thevectors for that spread it could
be nature, like you werementioning.
You know wind can't strongwinds especially, you know, can
spread those seeds.
Water too, especially if it'son shorelines, like Lake Huron,
(32:40):
georgian Bay for example.
If there's strong winds andwaves coming up, then that could
disrupt and disturb that soil,moving some of those rhizomes
and stoloms.
And it could be animals too,you know they can collect the
seeds on them, they can movethem just by brushing up against
them.
But really the main mechanism ofspread through North America is
(33:02):
through human activity, bothrecreation you know average
shows like UNI but also throughindustry.
So there's, you know, anytimeyou're moving along the
landscape there's a potentialfor bringing things with you,
whether that's mud and debris onyour boots or your ATVs, on
(33:22):
tires of your vehicles or onyour boat, you know, moving
actual soil or plant material aswell.
We've seen instances wherehunters aren't aware of what
that species that they're usingfor blinds are, so they'll use
Phragmites stalks for theirblinds.
I mentioned the ornamental useas decoration as well earlier.
(33:45):
So those are kind of ways thatas individuals we might
unintentionally contribute tothe spread.
But that also means by knowingthat that you can prevent doing
that.
And then there's the industryside as well, so through
equipment and heavy machinery,through construction or movement
(34:05):
of contaminated soils andaggregates for construction.
So those are two big ones.
And why we see it a lot onditches and roadways and things
like that is before we knew whatto do, how to do and what it
was.
You know we wereunintentionally spreading it
through that mechanism.
And then improper management.
(34:27):
So if you're going along theroadway and doing veg management
then you're likely mowing a lotand that could also continue
its spread.
Speaker 6 (34:36):
So and I imagine, because it grows so tall and
when you see it you're alwaysseeing it blowing in the wind
that a lot of the wind would.
It's kind of like it's alwaysbest to plant your corn in
squares because it's windpollinated a large percentage of
corn crops.
I see a lot of people have tworows and wonder why they don't
get much corn.
(34:56):
If they take that same area andplant it in a square, a lot of
wind pollination takes place,but I would imagine the wind
significantly moves a lot of itaround.
But, like you said, a lot ofthe seed does not germinate in
order to produce new groups.
But when you get high plantslike that and the way it looks
like it's blowing in the wind, Iwould imagine that plays a
significant factor in moving itaround and the way it looks like
(35:16):
it's blowing in the wind.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
I would imagine that plays a significant factor in
moving it around.
Yeah, it definitely could playa factor, but, like I mentioned,
it doesn't reproduce by seedsas much as it reproduces by
rhizomes, right yeah.
At least here in North America.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
Yeah, it's just kind of surprising.
I'm seeing it everywhere, nowthat Tom pointed it out, and
everywhere I go and everybody Imentioned it to, it's just like
this appears to be a problem.
So how much of a problem is itand how are we going to get
control of it?
Is it going to take over a lotof our wetlands and dry them up?
Speaker 7 (35:45):
essentially, you know what?
That's a great question.
So we know through a survey,that phragmites is estimated to
cost Ontario $100 millionannually.
So we know that it's a severeproblem and this is ongoing.
But we've also seen successstories, like at Long Point and
(36:08):
Turkey Point right.
So we know that something canbe done to manage this species.
So we do have a program it'scalled the Ontario Phragmites
Action Program that addressesthe phragmites situation through
coordination and collaboration.
There's been a lot of wonderfulwork happening for a long time
(36:28):
by community groups andmunicipalities, like you've even
mentioned.
But we're trying to make thateffort go a lot further by
breaking out of those silos andmoving towards that landscape
level kind of management.
So the Ministry of NaturalResources invested $11 million
over three years to the InvasiveSpecies Centre, as well as our
(36:49):
partners at Nature Conservancyof Canada, to kind of co-deliver
this program, and we're reallyexcited about it.
Kind of co-deliver this programand we're really excited about
it.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
So is there funds that municipalities are able to
apply for to assist them indealing with it?
Speaker 7 (37:07):
Yes, absolutely so.
We have funding programs.
We also have genetic testing.
So one thing that I didn'tmention is that there is a
native, relative and subspeciesof Phragmites that looks very
similar.
They do have characteristicdifferences, but they also
overlap as well.
So if you had like two specimensthat were typical side by side,
you'd be able to tell thedifference.
(37:28):
But then sometimes, dependingon site conditions, nutrient
levels, what have you?
They start to exhibitcharacteristics of each other
almost, and it's if you were so.
It's like a spectrum.
So sometimes in the in themiddle, you could get them
confused quite easily,especially the more north you go
.
So in northern ontario, nativeand invasive phragmites look a
(37:51):
lot more similar.
So we have genetic testing thatcan help with that, so that
you're making sure that yourmoney, time and effort is going
towards managing the undesirableinvasive phragmites instead of
the desirable native phragmites.
(38:12):
Activities monitoring, you know, working through whether it's
permits or clean equipment,protocols, things like that, and
really working to fill the gapsthat are identified from the
on-the-ground partners, such asmunicipalities, conservation
authorities, indigenouscommunities, ngos, industry.
You know everybody has a roleto play right.
Speaker 6 (38:33):
Yeah, so, jerissa, when a municipality gets
involved, they make applicationfor fundings, and how typically
would a municipality utilizethat funds to manage it?
Are they looking for volunteergroups, are they buying
equipment or are they justhiring staff to deal with it?
Or typically, maybe you cankind of enlighten us.
Speaker 7 (38:52):
Yeah.
So I mean all of the above.
I would say the funding can gotowards capital equipment, it
can go towards staff funding, itcan go towards hiring
contractors, it can go towardsorganizing community events.
It is primarily focused onaction towards management and
(39:15):
monitoring of invasivePhragmites.
So a little less focus on theoutreach and education component
, just because we feel likewe've done a lot of that.
So we really want to make surethat we're packing that punch
and getting to the managementside of things.
One of the ways that we're kindof doing this and on the
landscape is because we knowFreg knows no boundaries, right?
(39:39):
So it impacts all of us.
So we create regional and localmanagement working groups,
which we call FregMighty'smanagement areas, and invite all
of those different groups somunicipalities, conservation
authorities, indigenouscommunities etc to the table to
talk about that kind of moreholistic approach to monitoring,
(40:00):
management and prevention.
So then municipalities might beapplying on their own.
We do have it open to everyone.
But if you're working in agroup like that, then they're
working together and they couldapply together.
And then if you're working onit, you're clearing it out on a
roadway, then you're going to,you're going to manage that
(40:23):
piece.
That's in the ditch, but you'realso going to be able to manage
, you know, onto the propertyand behind that maybe is owned
by the university or you know,work with the landowner to
manage that property and behindso that it's not going to
reestablish and reinvade right.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
Right, so now are Mississippi Valley supplying
directly to Invasive SpeciesCenter, or where do they make
application for that?
Speaker 7 (40:48):
Yeah, so our fund is called the Invasive Phragmites
Control Fund and you can find iton the Ontario Phragmites
Action Program website.
You can also find it throughthe Invasive Species Centre's
website as well, but the OntarioPhragmites Action Program
really outlines all of thedifferent things that we offer,
(41:09):
including the funding, so thatwould be the best place to find
more information.
It's funding all the way up to$50,000 per individual applicant
, I believe, although that mightchange year over year depending
on what's available, althoughthat might change year over year
depending on what's availableand it is closed currently for
(41:30):
this season, but we will belooking to reopen it later in
the year.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Okay, so it's something that might be
available this year still.
Speaker 7 (41:41):
So it would be available for next year's
management or activities kind ofthing.
So you would apply that laterthis year, early next calendar
season, for next growing seasonmanagement Right.
Speaker 6 (41:55):
Okay.
Okay.
So now are groups andorganizations like Ducks
Unlimited getting involved?
Because I know there was aprogram that I worked with Areas
of Concern on the Great Lakeswhere Norm Sterling, when he was
Minister of the Environment andestablished a fund to clean up
a lot of these areas and, to behonest, the bureaucracy within
(42:16):
the ministry when the ministerhad moved on they were kind of
like all right.
So he established a I can'tthink it was a $5 million or $7
million fund, something alongthat way, to assist in cleaning
up the AOC's areas of concern.
But once the minister moved onout of that ministry they just
kind of sat idle Until such time.
I happened to meet thecoordinator who was in charge of
(42:36):
it and he says oh yeah, what doyou do?
And I says, well, I manage thisfund.
And I said what do you do?
Well, he says we're not gettingany work.
I said, really tell me aboutyour work.
So he told me and I said haveyou ever talked to groups like
Ducks Unlimited?
And no, why would I do that?
Well, because DU has a matchingfund basis.
So whatever funds wereavailable there, they bring up
(43:01):
Ducks Unlimited money from thestates to help clean up a lot of
these areas and help out.
And guess what?
We, uh, doubled the funding forit through du partnerships and
cleaned up a lot more areas andgot very active and worked out
very well.
Is it something like this thatpotentially might be available
as well?
Speaker 7 (43:16):
or have you looked at that?
That's wonderful, um.
We do work closely with ducks,unlimited um in ontario.
We we have ontario kind ofsectioned into four regions, so
I work on the Northern Ontarioregion, there's Southwest,
there's Central, but our Duckspartner is the Eastern Ontario
regional coordinator, um, andthen they also work on our
(43:38):
biological control program tosee if that is something that
we're able to kind of roll outacross the province as well.
So they work closely with theresearchers on that.
But I'm not sure in terms ofthe funding.
That's something I can bringback to the team and discuss.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
Yeah, because it'd be a great way to double the
amount of funds that areavailable.
And from the amount offragmenties that I'm seeing
around, I'm like this isstarting to.
You know, if it hadn't been forTom, I wouldn't even thought
about it.
I just looked by and, oh, thatlooks nice, you know the, the
way, those tall grass, kind ofblown in the wind, the way it
was.
And now, and they mentioned itto me and I realized, you know,
we got a problem here, let'stalk about it.
Speaker 7 (44:14):
That's why you're on.
Once you see it, you can'tunsee it.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
Well, yeah, it's, it's surprising and, and, and
the amount of impact that it'shaving.
So, uh, darissa, what kind ofdepths of water does it grow in
in?
Like, as you mentioned, itcleans up a lot of swamps and
things like that.
Is there a depth that'll stopgrowing or producing?
It's kind of like, I don't know, wild rice.
Speaker 7 (44:36):
There's certain depths that work well and don't
work well for it yeah, you knowthere is, but I don't know that
number off the top of my head.
But you will find it more onshorelines rather than in like
deep basins.
You know it caps out at howtall it can grow to access light
and oxygen, so I just don'tknow what the depth is.
Speaker 6 (44:59):
Okay, offhand yeah, and the reason I think I'm
leading to something I had theRoyal Botanical Gardens on that
was dealing with a carp controlprocess where they actually were
using old Christmas trees tokind of block off areas to stop
carp from coming in.
And to me I'm wondering, hmm,is this another thing that could
(45:20):
be utilized in that area?
But what are the kind of depthsthat it would work if it had
effect?
But you want to make sure it'sdone correctly.
But those are for the expertslike you to determine.
Speaker 7 (45:32):
Yeah, you know it's a tricky situation because it
would take a long time todevelop some sort of protocol to
ensure that it's not spreadingfurther, and you've got to think
of what the risks versus rewardor benefits are.
So, you know, we are reallytrying to focus on management,
reduction in populations,managing the impacts of it.
(45:55):
In some areas, certainly,eradication is feasible.
Still, so, you know, dependingon the site, those are the types
of goals that we have.
Those are the types of goalsthat we have, thinking about
applications for the speciesincreases, risk for further
spread and contributing to thosenegative impacts that we're
(46:15):
trying to avoid as well.
Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
So roughly.
How many municipalities tookadvantage of the program to get
involved last year?
Any idea on something like that?
Speaker 7 (46:28):
Oh, I do or did have an idea.
I don't remember the number offthe top of my head, but it was
quite a few.
It was like close to, if notabove, 100 municipalities that
were involved.
Whether or not they receivedfunding, they were involved in
some way.
Speaker 6 (46:47):
Okay, no, I just wondered because sometimes we
hear about these programs andyou know one or two
municipalities end up beingsuccessful in working with it,
but if you know you get 100municipalities, that's
significant.
And so it's speaking to theconcern raised about this,
particularly in a lot of, Iguess, cottage country where
(47:11):
they have a lot of impacts andyou talk about shorelines and
decreasing values and what theimpact will be there.
Speaker 7 (47:14):
Absolutely no.
We're seeing a great, you know,interest from municipalities.
They're really on the frontlines of these things.
They've been dealing withphragmites for a long time, you
know, whether it was from thismanagement standpoint of
managing the plant or if it wasjust simply managing the
roadways and, you know,protecting sightline visions and
things like that.
So they're always on the frontlines of invasive species
(47:36):
introductions and establishment.
So they're one of our key, youknow, audiences that we're
targeting to work with and beable to, you know, provide them
the means to manage effectively.
Speaker 6 (47:51):
Right, and what's the name of the program for
municipalities?
Again, or groups ororganizations?
Speaker 7 (47:57):
Yeah, so the Invasive Phragmites Control Fund is the
funding program.
Speaker 6 (48:02):
Okay, very good.
So what's the next steps andhow do we move forward?
And so we're working withmunicipalities and groups and
organizations to try and addressit and what other steps are
taking place or how can otherpeople get involved and assist
in trying to manage and dealwith this.
Speaker 7 (48:25):
I would say the first step is visiting the Ontario
Phragmites Action website.
It's justontariophragmitesactionca and
you know learning a bit aboutthe program.
I mentioned that we're kind ofwe separated the province into
these regional areas, so ifyou're keen and interested in
learning more about the program,you can reach out to your
regional coordinator, which isoutlined on the website.
(48:47):
You know who is in charge ofwhich area and that's so that we
can also help connect folks whoare wanting to work on
Phragmites or already doing workon Phragmites to each other
locally to really implement thatlandscape level management
through that coordination andcollaboration.
Speaker 6 (49:07):
So you are mentioned.
You mentioned Long Point,turkey Point.
There are getting somesignificant successes in
managing it throughout indifferent areas, and this is
something that we're hoping tomove forward.
Otherwise, we effectively couldsee a loss of a lot of our
wetlands and things like that aswell.
Speaker 7 (49:23):
Yeah, so the shorelines, especially our Great
Lakes shorelines, those are keyareas that we're trying to work
on.
I mentioned the Phragmitesmanagement areas and we're
slowly kind of fitting in thepuzzle pieces that we have a
Phragmites management areaacross the shorelines,
especially here on Erie Ontariolines, especially here on Erie
(49:52):
Ontario.
So those are ways that we'retrying to mitigate that spread
and impacts along our areas ofconcerns in the Great Lakes.
Speaker 6 (49:56):
All right.
Well, darissa, I reallyappreciate you taking the time
being on the program.
Tell us again how do people getin touch with you to find out
more details, or their areacoordinator, or whereabouts can
they go to find out moreinformation on how to deal with
Phragmites in the province ofOntario?
Speaker 7 (50:11):
Yeah, if you're looking for more information or
to get in touch with yourregional coordinator, just visit
the Ontario Phragmites ActionProgram website and that's
ontariophragmitesactionca.
It's really easy to find us andthat should have all the
information that you need and ifnot, you reach out to your
regional coordinator to find outwhat work's being done in your
area.
Speaker 6 (50:30):
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
I really appreciate you takingthe time and find it very
informative and hopefully thatit was just by chance talking to
you, know mentioned Tom andthat and I started looking and
go.
You know something?
There's something to talk abouthere and give some people some
insight, because I'm sure whenthey're driving down the road
just like I was yesterday byheading up to Halliburton that
(50:52):
seeing this all over the placeand it's having a significant
impact, Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (50:57):
Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (51:00):
Well, thanks, teresa.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to be with us.
Have a great day.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
Thanks, marissa, I really appreciate you taking the
time to be with us.
Have a great day.
Speaker 6 (51:05):
Thanks you as well.
Yeah, and just something alittle bit different of things
that are happening out thereunder the canopy.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Thanks, how did a small-town sheet metal mechanic
(51:33):
come to build one of Canada'smost iconic fishing lodges?
I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky,and you'll find out about that
and a whole lot more on theOutdoor Journal Radio Network's
newest podcast, diaries of aLodge Owner.
But this podcast will be morethan that.
Every week on Diaries of aLodge Owner, I'm going to
(51:54):
introduce you to a ton of greatpeople, share their stories of
our trials, tribulations andinspirations, learn and have
plenty of laughs along the way.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along
trying to figure out how tocatch a bass and we both decided
one day we were going to be ontelevision doing a fishing show.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in
all those bass in the summertime, but that's might be for more
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Punching you so confidently,you said hey, Pat, have you ever
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Find Diaries of a Lodge Ownernow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts
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