April 3, 2025 • 42 mins
What drives a marketing executive to walk 600 miles across England during a pandemic? For David Fenton, it began with gratitude for the hospital care his premature twins received 22 years earlier and transformed into something much bigger.
In this episode David recounts his remarkable journey that took him through picturesque landscapes and challenging terrains as he navigated the shifting COVID lockdowns. But what struck him most wasn't the physical challenge or stunning views – it was the extraordinary generosity he encountered along the way. From pub owners offering free accommodation when hospitality was struggling to waitresses donating their tips, these acts of kindness planted the seed for something transformative.
Inspired by this David set out to write about his walk in his latest book, 'Miles, Milestones and Memories' and this September,(2025), David's Challenge for Change invites people worldwide to walk, run, cycle or swim, collectively aiming to cover Earth's circumference (41,000km) while supporting children's charities. The statistics driving this mission are sobering: 333 million children living in extreme poverty globally, a child dying every 10 seconds from malnutrition, and millions without access to education or support for disabilities.
What makes this initiative unique is its inclusive approach combined with local impact. Anyone can participate – from octogenarians walking a mile to ultra-runners covering hundreds – and choose children's charities in their own communities. For businesses, it offers team-building opportunities while supporting communities where they operate. For individuals, it's a chance to improve health while making a meaningful difference.
David's story reminds us that significant change often begins with simply putting one foot in front of another. Whether you're a dedicated walker seeking purpose, a company looking for meaningful team engagement, or someone wanting to support children's causes, Challenge for Change offers a framework to turn physical activity into global impact.
Ready to be part of something bigger than yourself? Visit challengeforchange.org.uk to register for September's global journey and help children worldwide overcome barriers to education, healthcare, wellbeing, and safety.
David's book 'Miles, Milestones and Memories' is available now. https://www.waterstones.com/book/miles-milestones-and-memories/david-fenton/9781398471320
Question or comment? Send us a text message.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
hello, bob wells, here and welcome back to the
undercurrent stories podcast,where we dive deep into the
hidden depths of our world, onefascinating guest at a time.
Today's guest is david fenton.
David is a marketing director,walker, author of the book miles
, milestones and memories, andheads the challenge for Change
charity, which supportscharities that help children
(00:28):
overcome barriers to education,healthcare, wellbeing and safety
.
Hello and welcome to On theCurrent Stories, david.
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Bob, I'm delighted to be here and looking forward to
a conversation with you.
I haven't been described asfantastic for quite a long while
, so I like that description atthe start.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's great to have you on.
Hey, one thing I did noticewhen I was doing the little bit
of research for the show wasthat you actually held two
Guinness records.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah Well, bob, you might even be involved in one or
two of them, actually, becausethey date back to our days
together at Deucen and the twoworld records I mean not, it's
not putting Linford Christieunder any threat, or, um, usain
Bolt the first one was havingthe largest number of people in
(01:14):
a room wearing a Christmasjumper at the same time yes, so
I think you were involved inthat one yes, I was.
And the second one was a yearlater, where we did the largest
number of people wrappingpresents for christmas, presents
for for children.
Yeah, and both, both of thosewere authenticated by having
somebody from the guinness, uh,the guinness world records there
(01:37):
to adjudicate and to count andmake sure we we followed the
rules.
So, yeah, I, I kind of use thatas a little line to open up a
discussion, but then people getimmediately disappointed when
they find out what the two worldrecords are for.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's certainly an attention grabber, isn't it
David?
Before we talk about yourpassion for walking and exciting
walking charity, please tell usa bit about your life growing
up and how you eventuallydecided to become involved in a
career in marketing.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, good question, bob.
So I guess I've always beenvery family orientated and part
of a very close knit family.
I've got two younger brothersand we get on really well and
have done for well since we'vebeen part of the family, I guess
.
And friends are also reallyimportant, so kind of having
(02:29):
that circle of people that youget to know and that you trust
and that you have fun with.
So that's kind of been with me,you know, really since day one,
and I guess you know I followedthe route of school and
university and I didn't reallyknow what I wanted to do.
Leaving university I actuallywent into the civil service for
(02:50):
nine months as a managementtrainee because I enjoyed for
those that are of a certain age,yes, minister, and yes, prime
minister, and I fancied myselfas a Humphrey Appleby.
But yeah, the reality was notquite as much fun and I got a
bit bored there.
So I followed actually myfather, probably because he was
(03:12):
into sales and sales manager atICI, so he was there for kind of
one company throughout hiswhole working life and I
followed him into sales and Ijoined Black Decker and I was
there for 15 years and BlackDecker was a fantastic
experience because it enabled meto try different things and if
(03:33):
you did well, you kind of movedon every 18 months to two years.
So I moved from sales intomarketing and I learned about
product innovation, branding,product management, learned
about product innovation,branding, product management.
Trade marketing had a Europeanresponsibility.
So you know, that kind of Iguess got me into that path.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You're now with the Marketing Centre.
Could you tell us a little bitabout the Marketing Centre,
please, David, what it does?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, sure.
So the Marketing Centre is thelargest fractional or part-time
group of marketing directorsstroke CMOs in the UK and
basically it's made up of peoplewho have led marketing
functions and organizations atsenior level so effectively.
We've been a marketing directoror a CMO for companies in the
(04:22):
past and now we're bringing thatknowledge and that experience
to help smaller businesses whocan't necessarily afford a
full-time marketing director.
We do that on a kind ofpart-time basis and we help
businesses firstly to have aplan, a marketing plan that
links with the business plan,and then we help them to execute
(04:43):
that.
So whether that's kind ofcoaching the internal team that
they have or bringing in someexpertise from outside, and our
role as the marketing directorsto make sure that we progress
and that we deliver the resultsthat help the business grow, and
that's what I love, it'sgetting to know businesses,
getting to know the leaders ofthose businesses and bringing
(05:06):
value to them.
That's the buzz that I get fromit and I'm the regional
director for Thames Valley, so Ihave a team of eight and kind
of my role is to kind of support, I guess, the clients in Thames
Valley with the right marketingexpertise the right marketing
expertise.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, so to summarize it, if I had a I don't know a
company making jigsaws orsomething in Reading and we had
a turnover of I don't know halfa million or something, but we
wanted to expand and we felt abit weak on our marketing and
our advertising, then we wouldcall on somebody like yourself
(05:45):
to help you through a period ofsort of making that happen.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You've got my number, bob.
But yeah, absolutely, we'rethere to really help clients
achieve that next level ofgrowth.
And what I find is a lot ofclients have achieved great
growth by launching a fantasticproduct or the team might be
excellent on sales, but then toget to that next level of growth
, then they need to kind ofintroduce some structure and
(06:12):
process that they haven't hadpreviously.
And that's where we can kind ofcome in and bring our expertise
and learn as well, becausewe'll often learn about the
business or a particular marketthat we haven't kind of
participated in before andultimately we want to grow with
them.
If our clients are happy, we'rehappy and hopefully we kind of
(06:33):
get other referrals on the backof that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, and I guess there must be a lot of
transferable stuff in terms ofthe fact that you would go in
there, you would help thecompany, you would come across
various issues and problems andopportunities, sort them out and
you can actually put that inthe bank and take it to perhaps
another company.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think kind of casestudies and referrals are really
important because it reflectsthe fact that you know you've
done a good job and you'vedelivered value for them.
And I think ensuring thatmarketing is measurable and that
it links with the businessgoals is really important, and a
lot of the businesses that Ispeak with are not sure how best
(07:12):
to do that, how best to measurethe effectiveness of marketing,
and that's part of what we dois we put in dashboards that
will be able to track theprogress and ultimately deliver
a return on investment, which iswhat we're all about.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
David, when we work together, if you'd said to me AI
this would be seven or eightyears ago I'd have probably said
, yeah, hello, how, with yourexperience that you've had over
the last 30 years in marketingand the increasing use now of AI
, how important is it to thefunction of what's going on in
(07:47):
marketing?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I think it's increasingly important, Bob.
I think it's a tool or a suiteof tools that are part of the
armory of a marketeer, and notjust a marketeer, you know, and
I think it applies acrossmultiple functions in a business
.
And in fact, I was up this weekat an event in Sheffield where
we had over 100 clients attendthe workshop to find out more
(08:13):
about AI and how to use it andtips and techniques, etc.
So I think you don't want to be, in my view at least, fully
dependent on AI, because youneed to be able to understand
the context of AI and how bestto use it.
(08:33):
You need to have a plan in thefirst place so that you can
identify where AI can kind ofstep in and help, and you need
to be aware of some of the risksand challenges around AI as
well as the opportunities.
So a kind of balanced approach.
And I guess if you look atmarketing, it's a very broad
church as to the definition ofwhat is marketing, and AI
(08:56):
absolutely has a role to playwithin the suite of tools and
processes that you for anymarketeer.
So absolutely it's there as anasset and as a tool to be used,
but in the right way and beingclear up from what you're trying
to achieve.
I think.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Have you thought of any specific ways in which AI
can help?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I think there are multiple, Bob.
I mean, there are so manydifferent tools out there.
I think, ultimately, what Ithink businesses are trying to
work through is have they gotthe basics in place, you know,
have they got an AI policy, forexample I mean that's the start
point and educated some of thepeople in their organization on
(09:43):
how to use it, or which tools touse for what impact?
And then, thirdly, how do theyget going?
You know the businesses areasking those kind of questions
around artificial intelligenceand you know we've got a role to
play in kind of facilitatingthat and helping within the
(10:04):
marketing sphere.
But AI is much broader thanmarketing in terms of the
application of it and where youcan use it.
So often it's collaborationwith other organizations as well
.
But ultimately, for me it comesback to being clear what you're
trying to achieve and then therole that AI can facilitate
within that process.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, no doubt one of those things that you mull over
when you're going on one ofyour walks.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Among many, bob among many.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Which is a convenient segue to the next part of our
conversation.
David, yeah, so obviously youlove walking.
I've seen the book.
What date is the book comingout?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It's March, the 21st Bob, so it's on Amazon and it's
also on the publisher's website,austin McCauley.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So by the time this episode is released, it'll be
out.
Tell us about your interest inwalking.
How it started, david.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, I guess it probably goes back to my days at
Juic again, bob, to be honest,because, um, we did a number of
um fundraising events as a, as ateam, and and I think you were
probably part of that as well,and it wasn't just walking but
we did cycling, uh as well, and,um, you know, we we managed to
(11:20):
get people to get together andparticipate in a cycle ride from
branch to branch.
Or, in the case of walks, we'dhave the kind of management team
would go off and do a charitywalk for a few days and raise
funds for whoever the kind ofprovided charity was at that
point.
And I guess I got into it atthat point and I enjoyed it for
(11:45):
a number of reasons.
A, you're active and you'reoutdoors and you get to see a
perspective of the countrysideand the environment that you're
in that you do not see whenyou're driving around in a car
and I think, doing it with otherpeople, it's a fantastic
opportunity to really get toknow them in a different
(12:06):
environment.
So you know you'd find out allabout what other people are up
to, what they're doing in theirlives and vice versa, and you
come out at the end of that, Ithink with a stronger team and a
stronger set of connectionsthat ultimately team and a
stronger set of connections,that ultimately, the more you
can kind of trust the peoplethat you're with and that you're
(12:27):
working with, the moreeffective the discussions, the
actions, the plans that you putin place.
So there's a commercial benefit.
I think that comes out of it,as well as the kind of good
intent of raising funds forwhichever charity you're working
with.
And I guess I've always enjoyedwalking, I've always been an
outdoors person, I've alwaysbeen into sport, but that really
(12:51):
kind of brought it home as tothe fun aspect of it.
For sure there are challenges,but yeah, I just kind of got the
bug, I guess, from that.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's a great hobby, hobby, isn't it?
I love walking, too david.
It's free, which which isfantastic.
Um, and I remember doing thedoing that.
You you meant I think it was2012 we did the three peaks,
which, yes, um, yeah, our mutualcolleague, um, duncan barker,
did with us.
Um, and that was that was a.
That was a tough one, wasn't?
We had to do it in under 12hours, which which I think we
did.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
We did we did and it was again.
It's another one of thosememorable events that you never
forget.
And, um, you know there were.
There was some pain involved.
Bob wasn't there.
I can remember some of theblisters on the, on the feet and
, and some members of the teamwere struggled quite a bit, um,
but I also remember, at the endof the day, we stayed overnight
(13:44):
in a, in a bed and breakfast ora pub, and we had a few beers
and we had a laugh at eachother's expense, but with a
really good, you know,camaraderie, and those are the
things that you remember, aswell as the, the pain and the
fact that we did it.
You know there's a sense ofachievement that you know.
We, we, we realized ourambition and we raised funds in
(14:07):
a good cause.
So you're making a difference,uh, and, and we had fun in the
process.
So I think that's another greatanalogy, bob, of of why do it?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
yeah, no, it was, it was great fun.
Now, um, you did the walk.
Tell us about the, um, the walkitself, I'm going to say the
walk.
Perhaps I, I, I need to sort ofjust mention that you, you
walked, was it 600 miles duringcovid?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, it was over 600 miles actually in the end and I
guess, yeah, I did it in COVID,as you say, and the driving
force was really because my wifeand I we've got twin boys who
are now 27.
But when they were born theywere premature and they had some
(14:50):
fantastic support in the localhospital in Reading in those
early days and we always said,my wife and I, that we wanted to
give something back, and so Iwas thinking, well, what could
that be?
And I thought about cycling, Ithought about walking and it was
my wife's idea actually to walkto places that meant something
to me, around England.
(15:11):
So I went back to where I grewup, where I went to university,
where my grandmother kind oflived many years ago, where my
parents lived, and then ended upback at the hospital at the end
of the walk.
So it was a kind of circuitaround East Anglia, up to Durham
, across to Salford, down to theMidlands and then back down to
(15:33):
Reading, and you did this in onego, did you, david?
Salford down to the Midlands andthen back down to Reading.
And you did this in one go, didyou, david?
I did it in one go, although Ihad a hiatus in the middle due
to well, you have to read thebook to find out why but I had
some challenges with my feetwhich meant I had to take a
brief pause in the middle of it.
But, yeah, so did it.
Um, not quite in the time scalethat I wanted to because of
(15:56):
that, but, but I did the over600 miles and I did the circuit
that I wanted to to to hit.
And I mean I took so much fromfrom that, from that walk, um or
hike, whatever, whatever youcall it, but because it was in
covid time uh, it was.
I was really impacted by thegenerosity of people that I came
(16:18):
across on that walk.
I stayed in pubs, bed andbreakfasts, guest houses, and
people would give me a meal orthey'd put me up for a night
free of charge, at a time whenthe hospitality industry was
really struggling badly in thatphase of COVID.
And I was always trying to keepslightly ahead of the lockdowns,
because each day, you know, thelockdown was right on my tail
(16:44):
wherever I was.
So I had to kind of juggle thatwithout knowing what was coming
next or what the next locationwould be to lock down.
And the other impact I had wasI'd stop for a coffee, you know,
at regular intervals andwaitresses would give me their
tips in coins from, and I'd havepreferred notes because it
would have been lighter to carryin the rucksack.
(17:04):
But but to that, that gestureof giving me their, their coins,
and what it meant to them andtherefore what it meant to me to
receive that, it just impactedme on the generosity of people
and that was a factor in termsof coming up with Challenge for
Change that people want to makea difference and they appreciate
(17:25):
people that are kind of makingan effort, and that really hit
me, I think.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And you did this on your own, david, did you?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I did it on my own, I had a couple of legs where
people kind of joined me for abrief period.
Had I done it outside of COVIDI would have had a lot more
support and I would have enjoyedthat to be able to kind of talk
to different groups anddifferent people.
But again, I was limited byCOVID and in fact some of the
people I'd arranged to meet Ihad to reschedule because they
(17:54):
were in lockdown and I couldn'tsee them.
So yeah, that was one of thechallenges was trying to
navigate who and where and how.
But I had massive support frommy wife and from family,
sometimes lugging my kind ofrucksack around so I didn't have
it on my back all of the time.
So uh, I had help from multiplepeople to to do it, um, but
(18:19):
yeah, I did the majority of iton my on my own yeah, and what
about accommodation?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
did you um pre-plan it or did you just do it ad hoc?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
yeah no, I planned it uh quite, quite well ahead and
uh worked out the number ofmiles that I thought I could do
and then I booked ahead so thatyou know the next week or 10
days were planned out.
I obviously had a fewchallenges when I hit my foot
(18:48):
problem and I had to kind ofreschedule and rework everything
and I didn't know how long I'dbe out for either.
So there was some bigchallenges around the way.
But my preference was alwayskind of pubs or bed and
breakfasts, and then where thereweren't any, I'd go with a kind
of chain of hotel, which wasless fun, I'd say.
But again, you meet suchcharacters in the pubs and bed
(19:11):
and breakfasts that you learnabout their business, you learn
about their lives, and I lovethat, just being able to kind of
share stories and get to knowpeople.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And I guess, if you did it at the beginning of
lockdown, we had that period ofsort of three months with
fantastic weather.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, I mean it was September that I did it and
September and October were greatmonths, but it was interesting
because the day that I completedit and September and October
were great months, but it wasinteresting because the day that
I completed the walk, thefollowing day, we went into
national lockdown.
Everything was so.
I made it by 24 hours,otherwise I wouldn't have been
(19:50):
able to stay somewhere, you know, because everything was locked
down.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
What sort of average mileage did you do every day?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
so in the early days I did around 20 to 25 miles a
day, um, and that that kind ofcreated an impact.
So when I, when I took thepause and came back, I'd reduce
that down to 15 between 15 and20 um and and obviously some of
its.
Your elevations, like the PeakDistrict, for example, is is
(20:16):
challenging and you've got a orI had a massive rucksack on my
back for a lot, a lot of that aswell.
So I think it was a combinationof miles and and the weight and
and the elevation, but theviews that you get and the, you
know, even when it was raining,it was just nice to be outdoors
and the scenery that you couldyou could take in um, yeah, so I
loved it hi, it's pop here.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Just a quick interlude.
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(21:01):
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And now back to the show.
Was there always a plan towrite a book?
And now back to the show.
Was there always a plan towrite a book?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's always been one of my things on my wishlist to
write a book, but I had threekind of concepts in mind and I
didn't know which one.
But leadership's always been anarea that's kind of fascinated
me.
I've enjoyed reading aboutdifferent leadership styles and
Sir Alex Ferguson's always beena hero of mine as a Manchester
(21:35):
United fan as well.
So leadership was an option.
I also like fiction and I'minto the kind of I guess the Lee
Child kind of genre.
But I'm not sure I've got theskill set to be able to kind of
create that genre and replicateit.
And then when I was on the walk, that felt like actually this
(21:58):
is the right thing to do becauseit's an experience and I can
kind of reflect and also sharewhat I found on the journey and
my thoughts as I went around onthe journey.
So that's what I ended up.
But the ironic thing is it tookme 54 days to do the hype
around England and it took menearly four years to get the
(22:19):
book out.
So you can tell which wasslightly harder.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Got some amusing stories or any stories that
you'd like to share with ourlisteners?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, I mean there are plenty in there.
I can't share all the juicyones, bob, because you have to
get the book, but of course Iguess actually the first, the
first, the first day, um, I went, I started on the walk and I
was walking around I think itwas twyford, twyford area, um,
in the south and I saw these twofigures kind of walking towards
(22:52):
me about a mile away.
I was at the bottom of the hill.
They were at the top of thehill and as they got closer,
probably about halfway down thehill, I realized who, who they
were and they were my sons, sothat they the inspiration behind
doing the walk in the firstplace, effectively.
And they'd been stayingovernight because it was at the
start of the walk, so it wasokay from a lockdown point of
(23:13):
view.
They'd been staying overnightat a friend's and I hadn't
realized they were so close towhere I was walking.
But they tracked me via thephone and they came to meet me
and we had a quick pub lunch.
So that was a really nice kindof start to the journey.
And another one I guess was upin the Yorkshire area, it was,
(23:34):
and I went in for a coffee.
Another one I guess was up inthe Yorkshire area, it was and I
went in for a coffee and asausage roll or something, I
think, just to input thecalories.
And, by the way, that's anotherbenefit of doing something like
this you can have as manycalories as you want, so you can
eat to your heart's content.
But the owner of the shop gaveme three different beers for me
to have when I got to mydestination at the end of the
shop.
Gave me three different beersfor me to have when I got to my
(23:57):
destination at the end of theday and my rucksack was
splitting at the sides.
In fact I had to change myrucksack at one point but I
could hardly find space.
But I made sure I wasn't goingto leave three beers behind.
I took out a couple of things.
The beers are going in the packand I had them later that night
.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So, yeah, that was another good story.
I think, yeah.
Do you have any darker momentswhile you're walking?
Did you get to the point whereyou thought, oh, I've had enough
of this, or?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
anything.
Yeah, no, there were some, sometough moments.
I I mean when I had my theproblem with my feet.
That was the toughest momentbecause, um, they were very,
very sore and uh, I did afaceTime with my family and my
mother kind of saw my feet and Icould tell from her reaction
that I had to do something herebecause I couldn't just keep
going on.
I'm quite driven and once I'mdoing something I do not want to
(24:46):
give up.
So I didn't give up but I tooka pause that I wasn't happy, but
it was the right thing to do.
And there were days when I thinkit was around the Manchester
Ship Canal, the rain was teemingdown and I lost my signal on
the phone and I couldn't findthe route that I needed to
connect and that was depressingand you've just got to keep
(25:10):
going.
Those moments happen.
You come out the other side,but for sure there are ups and
downs on that walk.
But I think the downs arenormal, right, I think that's
part of what you have in life.
But it makes you appreciate thehighs even more because you've
had those downs and by far thehighs outweigh the lows.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
But yeah, I would say that's my view on it.
And were you, were yousufficiently uh, I was going to
say awake, but were yousufficiently, sort of fit enough
in the evenings to be able tosort of have a couple of pints
in some of these pubs?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
oh yeah, I love the evenings.
I love the evenings because, um, you know, the best ones, I
think, were the pubs or the bedand breakfast, whether you've
got an open fire, and you knowyou kind best ones I think were
the pubs or the bed andbreakfast, whether you got an
open fire, and you know you kindof sit there, reflect.
I'd feed back to my wife andwhat I'd done, because she was
doing a lot of the social mediaposting on my behalf and I'd
(26:06):
have a book with me or a coupleof books and I'd read in the
evening and then I'd eat a kindof nice meal as well.
So it's almost like a reward atthe end of the day and just
actually something basic likehaving a shower at the end of
the day was another one where,particularly if you're hot and
(26:26):
wet or cold, the basics of anice bed and a nice shower, you
just really appreciate those sixof a nice bed and a nice shower
.
You just really appreciatethose, um, and you know it's
just such a.
I was so lucky to have thatexperience and just to see
things that you you wouldn'totherwise see, and I took a lot
of photographs as well which arein the book and you know some
(26:51):
of the signs that you see withstrange names or some jokes that
people would put on signs.
Or I came across one with agarden where you traditionally
have your kennel for your petdog.
They had a kennel for theirrobotic lawnmower and they'd
given it a name as well.
So it's these kind ofquintessential or quirky things
(27:12):
that you come across and it alladds up to create a really rich
experience, I think.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, and as you said earlier on, it's not something
that those sort of things, forexample, would be things that
you would never, ever see ifyou're driving through a couple
of counties in two hours on amotorway.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think absolutely.
And the kind of colours in thesky or the colours of the hedges
as you're walking past.
When you're in a car you'rejust focused on the road and you
know you might glance out nowand then, but seeing the sunset
coming through the hedge, forexample, or seeing the rich
tapestry of colours as you'rewalking past, and you know,
(27:51):
walking in the Peak District,walking in lovely cities like
York and Durham, the Cotswolds,there's so much in our country
that we probably don'tappreciate as much as we could
or should.
But you know the opportunity ofa walk or a cycle ride, you
(28:11):
know it gives you that chance toenjoy it.
And you know I think it is niceto do it with other people,
because I've obviously done bothand you can almost share it
with others.
I think there's definitelyrichness in that as well.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, and in terms of the actual surfaces that you
went on, did you use publicfootpaths, roads or a
combination of both?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
All of the above, bob .
I always preferred it when Iwas off road, if you know, on on
kind of pathways or by theriver.
Um, it felt, you know, muchmore rural up in the peak
district again.
Uh, fantastic, because therewas just sheep and me and muddy
paths.
That was lovely.
The worst by far was the a1,where I was actually walking on
(28:56):
the A1 for a while and probablyshouldn't have done, but there
was no other way to get to whereI needed to get to and I had
big lorries coming past yardsfrom where I was, beeping their
horns at me and that was justsuch a horrible experience on a
busy road like the a1, but themajority were kind of smaller
roads.
I always tried to go thesmaller roads and I'd use google
(29:19):
maps sometimes just to kind ofcheck her route, and you
sometimes get lovely surprises.
I was up in uh salford and I hadthree routes.
I didn't know quite which oneto take, so I just picked one
and actually it took me past oldtrafford and I hadn't, I hadn't
realized that and as a I'm amassive man united supporter I
have been since I was born and Iwalked past, you know so, alex
(29:42):
ferguson, way past the stadium.
Uh, and that was, you know, itwas a surprise and it was, you
know, fantastic to to do that.
So, yeah, I, I, I absolutelylove the variety of the
different routes that you cantake and not knowing what you're
going to see or where you'regoing to go.
(30:03):
And you know, it was lucky thatI picked that one of the three.
I could easily have pickedanother route and found
something else.
It's that uncertainty as wellas the fact that I knew where I
was going to end up, but thatpath in the middle I didn't know
until I did it.
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
And the money that you raised went towards bibs,
babies and buscot support.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, it went to two actually.
So, um, I split it between bibs, uh, babies in buscott support,
because that was the story onmy, uh, my or our children, um,
and the other one was my, mybrother, uh, had some challenges
from a heart perspective, so I50 went to the british heart
foundation as well, and thosewere the two that I kind of
(30:46):
supported.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, okay, so we're now sort of fast forward to
today.
Yeah, and you've now got the.
You've started off Challengefor Change.
Tell us about Challenge forChange and what inspired it.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, I guess what inspired it was the walk that I
did previously and in the summerI kind of felt I'd like to go
again.
You know it's four years sinceI did it, but I wanted to go
bigger, bolder and better and soI kind of thought around
different options and ultimatelyI thought around the world
(31:21):
appeals.
It's 25,000 miles, 41,000kilometers, but I haven't got 10
years to do that.
Back to the discussion we'vehad about doing it as a team and
bonding.
I felt actually there's such anappetite for people generally
to want to help or to make adifference, so why don't we open
it up and make it globalChallenge for Change?
(31:45):
It took some kind of thinkingand iterations, but
fundamentally it's aboutenabling people around the world
to sign up to either walk orrun or cycle or swim and those
kilometers aggregate up throughthe system that they would sign
up on so that we can trackduring the month of September
(32:05):
this year, from the 1st to the30th, we can track our progress
against the 41,000 kilometersand at the same time people who
sign up will identify a localchildren's charity to raise
funds for that charity.
So the intention really iswe've got a global movement or
(32:28):
global opportunity for people tocome together but that the
impact that we have is at alocal level and really to help
that next generation.
And I think that's importantbecause every country in the
world has issues in terms ofchildren, poverty, education,
health, and therefore this issomething where we can kind of
(32:51):
make a difference and hopefullyhelp a few of those children to
have the opportunity to realisewho they can be.
And that inspiration I guesscomes from and I guess I'm
biased, clearly, but seeing mychildren, but also their friends
that they built up over manyyears.
They get together every year tocelebrate one of their group's
(33:12):
birthday about 60 of them and wego along my wife and I and some
friends go along to celebratewith them every year and just
seeing how they are today andhow kind of morally sensible
they are, how they kind of gotan approach to a work-life
balance, how supportive they areof each other, it gives you
(33:38):
hope for the future and givethem a helping hand or a chance
to realize who they can be.
We can get more of them up intothat kind of bracket of
realizing who they want to be.
And I don't want to bombard youwith stats, bob, but just a few
that kind of come to mind whenwe were looking into this is
from a poverty point of viewthere's 333 million children
(34:01):
globally that's one in sixliving in extreme poverty.
Children are twice as likely tolive in extreme poverty as
adults.
From a hunger point of view, achild dies every 10 seconds from
malnutrition.
So again, that's around theworld.
From an education point of view, there are 59 million children
(34:24):
of elementary school who do nothave an education, and within
that, I think there are nearly15 million girls, primary school
girls who will never have theopportunity to learn to read and
write.
And then you've got childrenwith disabilities.
I think there's 240 millionchildren that have disabilities
around the world, and 90% ofthose with disabilities in
(34:46):
developing countries will neverget to school.
So there's some really kind ofdamning statistics, and it
applies to every country in theworld, and so that's what this
is about really is having achallenge that people can set
themselves a mileage or akilometre target that is right
for them, but at the same time,we can make a difference and
(35:10):
hopefully help a few of thosechildren around the world to
kind of be who they want to beand give them a helping hand,
and I think the aspect that I'vetried to bring into Challenge
for Change is that people can doit individually if they want to
.
But I think more importantly iswhere they do it in teams or
groups.
I want to get schools involved,I want to get running clubs
(35:31):
involved, swimming clubsinvolved.
I want people, ideally in everycountry, to kind of participate
in this and from what we cantell from the research we've
done, I don't think anybody'sdone anything like this before.
I think it's a first the factthat people can pick an activity
that they want to do, the factthat we are helping then the
(35:51):
local charities in thosecountries to give them profile
and to give them funding, andthe fact that we can have some
fun in the process by doing itcollectively.
Then that's what it's all aboutreally.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, I think it's a great model the way there's a
marketing, almost a marketingoperation for people's charities
of choice to do with childrenglobally.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
It's actually a framework.
Bob, you're spot on.
We are not actually.
Challenge for Change is not acharity itself and we don't
actually touch the money.
So the idea is that we providethat framework, that local
children's charities that existget the profile and get the
benefit from that.
So you know, we're at the stagenow where the website is
(36:35):
launched as of last week, soit's called
challengeforchangeorguk, and nowbetween now and September it's
about spreading the word and,you know, hopefully we get some
interest on the back of this aswell but really keen to kind of
get people who want toparticipate, people who want to
(36:57):
be ambassadors we've already gota few on the website already
who are kind of spreading theword and telling their
communities and their friendsand then also companies who
might want to kind of partner orsponsor in this process.
Because, back to our experienceagain at Juicen, I think
companies get a massive benefithere, a from a branding point of
(37:19):
view, of being associated withsomething like this.
Secondly, they're helping thecommunity in which they exist
like this.
Secondly, they're helping thecommunity in which they exist.
And then, thirdly, you've gotthe opportunity to have a team
aspect or a team competitiveaspect where you can almost have
in a company North versus Southversus East versus West, and
have a bit of a team kind ofchallenge, and then all of that
(37:41):
aggregates up so that we're ableto see the global picture and
what we're doing at a macrolevel.
So massive opportunities and itappeals, I think, to audiences
of all types.
My mother in her mid 80s willprobably do a couple of miles
and my niece in Australia is anultra runner.
She'll do hundreds of miles andeverybody's welcome.
We're targeting schools becauseI think getting kids to do a
(38:04):
couple of laps around the fieldtogether collectively will
involve them and give them anexperience of being part of the
team that goes around the world.
So lots of opportunities to dosome fun stuff.
And and I should add, by theway, that whilst I'm talking
about it, it's not all me um,I've got a massive support from
12 other people who are part ofa steering group who are doing
(38:27):
this pro bono as well, andwithout them we would be nowhere
near launching this.
And that's also fun, becauseyou're kind of working as a team
to bring something to life andwe've obviously got a way to go
until September.
But yeah, we're proud of thewebsite, we're proud of the
branding and the assets thatwe've created, and now it's all
(38:49):
about getting people on board.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, so it sounds great, and I think that, um, the
good thing about it is that youcan be anywhere in the world.
So if you're a runner, acyclist, a jogger, a walker,
what would?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
um, what's the best way to, uh, to get people to?
What do they need to do to signup?
I think the best thing, bob,really is just to visit the
website, because on the websiteis is the you click on a button
and then you're into the systemto to register and then, once
you've registered, there's alink into, into just giving to,
to kind of pick your charity andand if you, if you don't have a
charity in mind, then there'ssomeone on the website as a, as
an, but I think if you go tochallengeforchangeorguk, then
(39:30):
just follow the steps and, yeah,we'd love to have you have
everybody involved, and I thinkit's all about kind of creating
a movement, a global movement,but creating an impact at a
local level, and this is amassive opportunity to bring
people together and tap intothat generosity that a lot of
(39:51):
people have in tough times.
Right, I mean, we understandeconomies are challenging and
life is challenging, but itdoesn't need to cost a lot and I
think every little helps andwhat we can do is be a channel
to kind of help futuregenerations really.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
David, we mentioned about listeners going to the
website.
If there's somebody who islistening to this episode and
really feels that they'dactually like to do something
altruistic, what would you sayto?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
them I'd say you know , this is a fantastic
opportunity for you.
It's easy to get involved.
It's easy to let your friendsand your family and your
colleagues know that this istaking place.
It's easy to organize a teamthat you can be part of and that
you can kind of get peopleinvolved that you want to get.
(40:40):
And I think, ultimately, when Iwas talking with some of my
colleagues, I guess in SouthAfrica and Australia, about this
, what they said to me was theyreally want to get involved
because there's been noframework that has enabled them
to do something like this before.
And that is what this is it's aframework to support children's
(41:03):
charities that exist today, andso my message to anybody is you
can make a difference, a bigdifference here, and you can
also have some fun in theprocess.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Well, it's been great talking to you, David, and to
catch up after all these years.
I'm looking forward to readingyour book and it's been very
inspiring to hear how yourinterest in walking has led to
the great work that you're nowdoing in helping children
through Challenge for Change.
And if we've got any listenersinterested in taking part in
events, or if they'd like toorganise their own event this
September 2025, you can find alink in the episode show notes.
(41:39):
My guest today has been DavidFenton.
David is a marketing director,Walker, author of the book Miles
, Milestones and Memories, andhe's founder of the Challenge
for Change project and, asmentioned, you can find links to
the project and also David'sbook in the show notes.
Thank you for coming on theshow, David.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Thanks a lot, Bob.
I've enjoyed it and hopefullyyou're going to be signing up
soon Definitely.
hello, bob wells, here and welcome back to the
undercurrent stories podcast,where we dive deep into the
hidden depths of our world, onefascinating guest at a time.
Today's guest is david fenton.
David is a marketing director,walker, author of the book miles
, milestones and memories, andheads the challenge for Change
charity, which supportscharities that help children
(00:28):
overcome barriers to education,healthcare, wellbeing and safety
.
Hello and welcome to On theCurrent Stories, david.
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Bob, I'm delighted to be here and looking forward to
a conversation with you.
I haven't been described asfantastic for quite a long while
, so I like that description atthe start.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's great to have you on.
Hey, one thing I did noticewhen I was doing the little bit
of research for the show wasthat you actually held two
Guinness records.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah Well, bob, you might even be involved in one or
two of them, actually, becausethey date back to our days
together at Deucen and the twoworld records I mean not, it's
not putting Linford Christieunder any threat, or, um, usain
Bolt the first one was havingthe largest number of people in
(01:14):
a room wearing a Christmasjumper at the same time yes, so
I think you were involved inthat one yes, I was.
And the second one was a yearlater, where we did the largest
number of people wrappingpresents for christmas, presents
for for children.
Yeah, and both, both of thosewere authenticated by having
somebody from the guinness, uh,the guinness world records there
(01:37):
to adjudicate and to count andmake sure we we followed the
rules.
So, yeah, I, I kind of use thatas a little line to open up a
discussion, but then people getimmediately disappointed when
they find out what the two worldrecords are for.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's certainly an attention grabber, isn't it
David?
Before we talk about yourpassion for walking and exciting
walking charity, please tell usa bit about your life growing
up and how you eventuallydecided to become involved in a
career in marketing.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, good question, bob.
So I guess I've always beenvery family orientated and part
of a very close knit family.
I've got two younger brothersand we get on really well and
have done for well since we'vebeen part of the family, I guess
.
And friends are also reallyimportant, so kind of having
(02:29):
that circle of people that youget to know and that you trust
and that you have fun with.
So that's kind of been with me,you know, really since day one,
and I guess you know I followedthe route of school and
university and I didn't reallyknow what I wanted to do.
Leaving university I actuallywent into the civil service for
(02:50):
nine months as a managementtrainee because I enjoyed for
those that are of a certain age,yes, minister, and yes, prime
minister, and I fancied myselfas a Humphrey Appleby.
But yeah, the reality was notquite as much fun and I got a
bit bored there.
So I followed actually myfather, probably because he was
(03:12):
into sales and sales manager atICI, so he was there for kind of
one company throughout hiswhole working life and I
followed him into sales and Ijoined Black Decker and I was
there for 15 years and BlackDecker was a fantastic
experience because it enabled meto try different things and if
(03:33):
you did well, you kind of movedon every 18 months to two years.
So I moved from sales intomarketing and I learned about
product innovation, branding,product management, learned
about product innovation,branding, product management.
Trade marketing had a Europeanresponsibility.
So you know, that kind of Iguess got me into that path.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You're now with the Marketing Centre.
Could you tell us a little bitabout the Marketing Centre,
please, David, what it does?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, sure.
So the Marketing Centre is thelargest fractional or part-time
group of marketing directorsstroke CMOs in the UK and
basically it's made up of peoplewho have led marketing
functions and organizations atsenior level so effectively.
We've been a marketing directoror a CMO for companies in the
(04:22):
past and now we're bringing thatknowledge and that experience
to help smaller businesses whocan't necessarily afford a
full-time marketing director.
We do that on a kind ofpart-time basis and we help
businesses firstly to have aplan, a marketing plan that
links with the business plan,and then we help them to execute
(04:43):
that.
So whether that's kind ofcoaching the internal team that
they have or bringing in someexpertise from outside, and our
role as the marketing directorsto make sure that we progress
and that we deliver the resultsthat help the business grow, and
that's what I love, it'sgetting to know businesses,
getting to know the leaders ofthose businesses and bringing
(05:06):
value to them.
That's the buzz that I get fromit and I'm the regional
director for Thames Valley, so Ihave a team of eight and kind
of my role is to kind of support, I guess, the clients in Thames
Valley with the right marketingexpertise the right marketing
expertise.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, so to summarize it, if I had a I don't know a
company making jigsaws orsomething in Reading and we had
a turnover of I don't know halfa million or something, but we
wanted to expand and we felt abit weak on our marketing and
our advertising, then we wouldcall on somebody like yourself
(05:45):
to help you through a period ofsort of making that happen.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You've got my number, bob.
But yeah, absolutely, we'rethere to really help clients
achieve that next level ofgrowth.
And what I find is a lot ofclients have achieved great
growth by launching a fantasticproduct or the team might be
excellent on sales, but then toget to that next level of growth
, then they need to kind ofintroduce some structure and
(06:12):
process that they haven't hadpreviously.
And that's where we can kind ofcome in and bring our expertise
and learn as well, becausewe'll often learn about the
business or a particular marketthat we haven't kind of
participated in before andultimately we want to grow with
them.
If our clients are happy, we'rehappy and hopefully we kind of
(06:33):
get other referrals on the backof that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, and I guess there must be a lot of
transferable stuff in terms ofthe fact that you would go in
there, you would help thecompany, you would come across
various issues and problems andopportunities, sort them out and
you can actually put that inthe bank and take it to perhaps
another company.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think kind of casestudies and referrals are really
important because it reflectsthe fact that you know you've
done a good job and you'vedelivered value for them.
And I think ensuring thatmarketing is measurable and that
it links with the businessgoals is really important, and a
lot of the businesses that Ispeak with are not sure how best
(07:12):
to do that, how best to measurethe effectiveness of marketing,
and that's part of what we dois we put in dashboards that
will be able to track theprogress and ultimately deliver
a return on investment, which iswhat we're all about.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
David, when we work together, if you'd said to me AI
this would be seven or eightyears ago I'd have probably said
, yeah, hello, how, with yourexperience that you've had over
the last 30 years in marketingand the increasing use now of AI
, how important is it to thefunction of what's going on in
(07:47):
marketing?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I think it's increasingly important, Bob.
I think it's a tool or a suiteof tools that are part of the
armory of a marketeer, and notjust a marketeer, you know, and
I think it applies acrossmultiple functions in a business
.
And in fact, I was up this weekat an event in Sheffield where
we had over 100 clients attendthe workshop to find out more
(08:13):
about AI and how to use it andtips and techniques, etc.
So I think you don't want to be, in my view at least, fully
dependent on AI, because youneed to be able to understand
the context of AI and how bestto use it.
(08:33):
You need to have a plan in thefirst place so that you can
identify where AI can kind ofstep in and help, and you need
to be aware of some of the risksand challenges around AI as
well as the opportunities.
So a kind of balanced approach.
And I guess if you look atmarketing, it's a very broad
church as to the definition ofwhat is marketing, and AI
(08:56):
absolutely has a role to playwithin the suite of tools and
processes that you for anymarketeer.
So absolutely it's there as anasset and as a tool to be used,
but in the right way and beingclear up from what you're trying
to achieve.
I think.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Have you thought of any specific ways in which AI
can help?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I think there are multiple, Bob.
I mean, there are so manydifferent tools out there.
I think, ultimately, what Ithink businesses are trying to
work through is have they gotthe basics in place, you know,
have they got an AI policy, forexample I mean that's the start
point and educated some of thepeople in their organization on
(09:43):
how to use it, or which tools touse for what impact?
And then, thirdly, how do theyget going?
You know the businesses areasking those kind of questions
around artificial intelligenceand you know we've got a role to
play in kind of facilitatingthat and helping within the
(10:04):
marketing sphere.
But AI is much broader thanmarketing in terms of the
application of it and where youcan use it.
So often it's collaborationwith other organizations as well
.
But ultimately, for me it comesback to being clear what you're
trying to achieve and then therole that AI can facilitate
within that process.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, no doubt one of those things that you mull over
when you're going on one ofyour walks.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Among many, bob among many.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Which is a convenient segue to the next part of our
conversation.
David, yeah, so obviously youlove walking.
I've seen the book.
What date is the book comingout?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It's March, the 21st Bob, so it's on Amazon and it's
also on the publisher's website,austin McCauley.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So by the time this episode is released, it'll be
out.
Tell us about your interest inwalking.
How it started, david.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, I guess it probably goes back to my days at
Juic again, bob, to be honest,because, um, we did a number of
um fundraising events as a, as ateam, and and I think you were
probably part of that as well,and it wasn't just walking but
we did cycling, uh as well, and,um, you know, we we managed to
(11:20):
get people to get together andparticipate in a cycle ride from
branch to branch.
Or, in the case of walks, we'dhave the kind of management team
would go off and do a charitywalk for a few days and raise
funds for whoever the kind ofprovided charity was at that
point.
And I guess I got into it atthat point and I enjoyed it for
(11:45):
a number of reasons.
A, you're active and you'reoutdoors and you get to see a
perspective of the countrysideand the environment that you're
in that you do not see whenyou're driving around in a car
and I think, doing it with otherpeople, it's a fantastic
opportunity to really get toknow them in a different
(12:06):
environment.
So you know you'd find out allabout what other people are up
to, what they're doing in theirlives and vice versa, and you
come out at the end of that, Ithink with a stronger team and a
stronger set of connectionsthat ultimately team and a
stronger set of connections,that ultimately, the more you
can kind of trust the peoplethat you're with and that you're
(12:27):
working with, the moreeffective the discussions, the
actions, the plans that you putin place.
So there's a commercial benefit.
I think that comes out of it,as well as the kind of good
intent of raising funds forwhichever charity you're working
with.
And I guess I've always enjoyedwalking, I've always been an
outdoors person, I've alwaysbeen into sport, but that really
(12:51):
kind of brought it home as tothe fun aspect of it.
For sure there are challenges,but yeah, I just kind of got the
bug, I guess, from that.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's a great hobby, hobby, isn't it?
I love walking, too david.
It's free, which which isfantastic.
Um, and I remember doing thedoing that.
You you meant I think it was2012 we did the three peaks,
which, yes, um, yeah, our mutualcolleague, um, duncan barker,
did with us.
Um, and that was that was a.
That was a tough one, wasn't?
We had to do it in under 12hours, which which I think we
did.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
We did we did and it was again.
It's another one of thosememorable events that you never
forget.
And, um, you know there were.
There was some pain involved.
Bob wasn't there.
I can remember some of theblisters on the, on the feet and
, and some members of the teamwere struggled quite a bit, um,
but I also remember, at the endof the day, we stayed overnight
(13:44):
in a, in a bed and breakfast ora pub, and we had a few beers
and we had a laugh at eachother's expense, but with a
really good, you know,camaraderie, and those are the
things that you remember, aswell as the, the pain and the
fact that we did it.
You know there's a sense ofachievement that you know.
We, we, we realized ourambition and we raised funds in
(14:07):
a good cause.
So you're making a difference,uh, and, and we had fun in the
process.
So I think that's another greatanalogy, bob, of of why do it?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
yeah, no, it was, it was great fun.
Now, um, you did the walk.
Tell us about the, um, the walkitself, I'm going to say the
walk.
Perhaps I, I, I need to sort ofjust mention that you, you
walked, was it 600 miles duringcovid?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, it was over 600 miles actually in the end and I
guess, yeah, I did it in COVID,as you say, and the driving
force was really because my wifeand I we've got twin boys who
are now 27.
But when they were born theywere premature and they had some
(14:50):
fantastic support in the localhospital in Reading in those
early days and we always said,my wife and I, that we wanted to
give something back, and so Iwas thinking, well, what could
that be?
And I thought about cycling, Ithought about walking and it was
my wife's idea actually to walkto places that meant something
to me, around England.
(15:11):
So I went back to where I grewup, where I went to university,
where my grandmother kind oflived many years ago, where my
parents lived, and then ended upback at the hospital at the end
of the walk.
So it was a kind of circuitaround East Anglia, up to Durham
, across to Salford, down to theMidlands and then back down to
(15:33):
Reading, and you did this in onego, did you, david?
Salford down to the Midlands andthen back down to Reading.
And you did this in one go, didyou, david?
I did it in one go, although Ihad a hiatus in the middle due
to well, you have to read thebook to find out why but I had
some challenges with my feetwhich meant I had to take a
brief pause in the middle of it.
But, yeah, so did it.
Um, not quite in the time scalethat I wanted to because of
(15:56):
that, but, but I did the over600 miles and I did the circuit
that I wanted to to to hit.
And I mean I took so much fromfrom that, from that walk, um or
hike, whatever, whatever youcall it, but because it was in
covid time uh, it was.
I was really impacted by thegenerosity of people that I came
(16:18):
across on that walk.
I stayed in pubs, bed andbreakfasts, guest houses, and
people would give me a meal orthey'd put me up for a night
free of charge, at a time whenthe hospitality industry was
really struggling badly in thatphase of COVID.
And I was always trying to keepslightly ahead of the lockdowns,
because each day, you know, thelockdown was right on my tail
(16:44):
wherever I was.
So I had to kind of juggle thatwithout knowing what was coming
next or what the next locationwould be to lock down.
And the other impact I had wasI'd stop for a coffee, you know,
at regular intervals andwaitresses would give me their
tips in coins from, and I'd havepreferred notes because it
would have been lighter to carryin the rucksack.
(17:04):
But but to that, that gestureof giving me their, their coins,
and what it meant to them andtherefore what it meant to me to
receive that, it just impactedme on the generosity of people
and that was a factor in termsof coming up with Challenge for
Change that people want to makea difference and they appreciate
(17:25):
people that are kind of makingan effort, and that really hit
me, I think.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And you did this on your own, david, did you?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I did it on my own, I had a couple of legs where
people kind of joined me for abrief period.
Had I done it outside of COVIDI would have had a lot more
support and I would have enjoyedthat to be able to kind of talk
to different groups anddifferent people.
But again, I was limited byCOVID and in fact some of the
people I'd arranged to meet Ihad to reschedule because they
(17:54):
were in lockdown and I couldn'tsee them.
So yeah, that was one of thechallenges was trying to
navigate who and where and how.
But I had massive support frommy wife and from family,
sometimes lugging my kind ofrucksack around so I didn't have
it on my back all of the time.
So uh, I had help from multiplepeople to to do it, um, but
(18:19):
yeah, I did the majority of iton my on my own yeah, and what
about accommodation?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
did you um pre-plan it or did you just do it ad hoc?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
yeah no, I planned it uh quite, quite well ahead and
uh worked out the number ofmiles that I thought I could do
and then I booked ahead so thatyou know the next week or 10
days were planned out.
I obviously had a fewchallenges when I hit my foot
(18:48):
problem and I had to kind ofreschedule and rework everything
and I didn't know how long I'dbe out for either.
So there was some bigchallenges around the way.
But my preference was alwayskind of pubs or bed and
breakfasts, and then where thereweren't any, I'd go with a kind
of chain of hotel, which wasless fun, I'd say.
But again, you meet suchcharacters in the pubs and bed
(19:11):
and breakfasts that you learnabout their business, you learn
about their lives, and I lovethat, just being able to kind of
share stories and get to knowpeople.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And I guess, if you did it at the beginning of
lockdown, we had that period ofsort of three months with
fantastic weather.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, I mean it was September that I did it and
September and October were greatmonths, but it was interesting
because the day that I completedit and September and October
were great months, but it wasinteresting because the day that
I completed the walk, thefollowing day, we went into
national lockdown.
Everything was so.
I made it by 24 hours,otherwise I wouldn't have been
(19:50):
able to stay somewhere, you know, because everything was locked
down.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
What sort of average mileage did you do every day?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
so in the early days I did around 20 to 25 miles a
day, um, and that that kind ofcreated an impact.
So when I, when I took thepause and came back, I'd reduce
that down to 15 between 15 and20 um and and obviously some of
its.
Your elevations, like the PeakDistrict, for example, is is
(20:16):
challenging and you've got a orI had a massive rucksack on my
back for a lot, a lot of that aswell.
So I think it was a combinationof miles and and the weight and
and the elevation, but theviews that you get and the, you
know, even when it was raining,it was just nice to be outdoors
and the scenery that you couldyou could take in um, yeah, so I
loved it hi, it's pop here.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Just a quick interlude.
Hope you're enjoying thisepisode and if you would like to
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(21:01):
So all you need to do is justvisit undercurrentstoriescom or
search Undercurrent Stories inany of the podcast platforms.
And now back to the show.
Was there always a plan towrite a book?
And now back to the show.
Was there always a plan towrite a book?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's always been one of my things on my wishlist to
write a book, but I had threekind of concepts in mind and I
didn't know which one.
But leadership's always been anarea that's kind of fascinated
me.
I've enjoyed reading aboutdifferent leadership styles and
Sir Alex Ferguson's always beena hero of mine as a Manchester
(21:35):
United fan as well.
So leadership was an option.
I also like fiction and I'minto the kind of I guess the Lee
Child kind of genre.
But I'm not sure I've got theskill set to be able to kind of
create that genre and replicateit.
And then when I was on the walk, that felt like actually this
(21:58):
is the right thing to do becauseit's an experience and I can
kind of reflect and also sharewhat I found on the journey and
my thoughts as I went around onthe journey.
So that's what I ended up.
But the ironic thing is it tookme 54 days to do the hype
around England and it took menearly four years to get the
(22:19):
book out.
So you can tell which wasslightly harder.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Got some amusing stories or any stories that
you'd like to share with ourlisteners?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, I mean there are plenty in there.
I can't share all the juicyones, bob, because you have to
get the book, but of course Iguess actually the first, the
first, the first day, um, I went, I started on the walk and I
was walking around I think itwas twyford, twyford area, um,
in the south and I saw these twofigures kind of walking towards
(22:52):
me about a mile away.
I was at the bottom of the hill.
They were at the top of thehill and as they got closer,
probably about halfway down thehill, I realized who, who they
were and they were my sons, sothat they the inspiration behind
doing the walk in the firstplace, effectively.
And they'd been stayingovernight because it was at the
start of the walk, so it wasokay from a lockdown point of
(23:13):
view.
They'd been staying overnightat a friend's and I hadn't
realized they were so close towhere I was walking.
But they tracked me via thephone and they came to meet me
and we had a quick pub lunch.
So that was a really nice kindof start to the journey.
And another one I guess was upin the Yorkshire area, it was,
(23:34):
and I went in for a coffee.
Another one I guess was up inthe Yorkshire area, it was and I
went in for a coffee and asausage roll or something, I
think, just to input thecalories.
And, by the way, that's anotherbenefit of doing something like
this you can have as manycalories as you want, so you can
eat to your heart's content.
But the owner of the shop gaveme three different beers for me
to have when I got to mydestination at the end of the
shop.
Gave me three different beersfor me to have when I got to my
(23:57):
destination at the end of theday and my rucksack was
splitting at the sides.
In fact I had to change myrucksack at one point but I
could hardly find space.
But I made sure I wasn't goingto leave three beers behind.
I took out a couple of things.
The beers are going in the packand I had them later that night
.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So, yeah, that was another good story.
I think, yeah.
Do you have any darker momentswhile you're walking?
Did you get to the point whereyou thought, oh, I've had enough
of this, or?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
anything.
Yeah, no, there were some, sometough moments.
I I mean when I had my theproblem with my feet.
That was the toughest momentbecause, um, they were very,
very sore and uh, I did afaceTime with my family and my
mother kind of saw my feet and Icould tell from her reaction
that I had to do something herebecause I couldn't just keep
going on.
I'm quite driven and once I'mdoing something I do not want to
(24:46):
give up.
So I didn't give up but I tooka pause that I wasn't happy, but
it was the right thing to do.
And there were days when I thinkit was around the Manchester
Ship Canal, the rain was teemingdown and I lost my signal on
the phone and I couldn't findthe route that I needed to
connect and that was depressingand you've just got to keep
(25:10):
going.
Those moments happen.
You come out the other side,but for sure there are ups and
downs on that walk.
But I think the downs arenormal, right, I think that's
part of what you have in life.
But it makes you appreciate thehighs even more because you've
had those downs and by far thehighs outweigh the lows.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
But yeah, I would say that's my view on it.
And were you, were yousufficiently uh, I was going to
say awake, but were yousufficiently, sort of fit enough
in the evenings to be able tosort of have a couple of pints
in some of these pubs?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
oh yeah, I love the evenings.
I love the evenings because, um, you know, the best ones, I
think, were the pubs or the bedand breakfast, whether you've
got an open fire, and you knowyou kind best ones I think were
the pubs or the bed andbreakfast, whether you got an
open fire, and you know you kindof sit there, reflect.
I'd feed back to my wife andwhat I'd done, because she was
doing a lot of the social mediaposting on my behalf and I'd
(26:06):
have a book with me or a coupleof books and I'd read in the
evening and then I'd eat a kindof nice meal as well.
So it's almost like a reward atthe end of the day and just
actually something basic likehaving a shower at the end of
the day was another one where,particularly if you're hot and
(26:26):
wet or cold, the basics of anice bed and a nice shower, you
just really appreciate those sixof a nice bed and a nice shower
.
You just really appreciatethose, um, and you know it's
just such a.
I was so lucky to have thatexperience and just to see
things that you you wouldn'totherwise see, and I took a lot
of photographs as well which arein the book and you know some
(26:51):
of the signs that you see withstrange names or some jokes that
people would put on signs.
Or I came across one with agarden where you traditionally
have your kennel for your petdog.
They had a kennel for theirrobotic lawnmower and they'd
given it a name as well.
So it's these kind ofquintessential or quirky things
(27:12):
that you come across and it alladds up to create a really rich
experience, I think.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, and as you said earlier on, it's not something
that those sort of things, forexample, would be things that
you would never, ever see ifyou're driving through a couple
of counties in two hours on amotorway.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think absolutely.
And the kind of colours in thesky or the colours of the hedges
as you're walking past.
When you're in a car you'rejust focused on the road and you
know you might glance out nowand then, but seeing the sunset
coming through the hedge, forexample, or seeing the rich
tapestry of colours as you'rewalking past, and you know,
(27:51):
walking in the Peak District,walking in lovely cities like
York and Durham, the Cotswolds,there's so much in our country
that we probably don'tappreciate as much as we could
or should.
But you know the opportunity ofa walk or a cycle ride, you
(28:11):
know it gives you that chance toenjoy it.
And you know I think it is niceto do it with other people,
because I've obviously done bothand you can almost share it
with others.
I think there's definitelyrichness in that as well.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, and in terms of the actual surfaces that you
went on, did you use publicfootpaths, roads or a
combination of both?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
All of the above, bob .
I always preferred it when Iwas off road, if you know, on on
kind of pathways or by theriver.
Um, it felt, you know, muchmore rural up in the peak
district again.
Uh, fantastic, because therewas just sheep and me and muddy
paths.
That was lovely.
The worst by far was the a1,where I was actually walking on
(28:56):
the A1 for a while and probablyshouldn't have done, but there
was no other way to get to whereI needed to get to and I had
big lorries coming past yardsfrom where I was, beeping their
horns at me and that was justsuch a horrible experience on a
busy road like the a1, but themajority were kind of smaller
roads.
I always tried to go thesmaller roads and I'd use google
(29:19):
maps sometimes just to kind ofcheck her route, and you
sometimes get lovely surprises.
I was up in uh salford and I hadthree routes.
I didn't know quite which oneto take, so I just picked one
and actually it took me past oldtrafford and I hadn't, I hadn't
realized that and as a I'm amassive man united supporter I
have been since I was born and Iwalked past, you know so, alex
(29:42):
ferguson, way past the stadium.
Uh, and that was, you know, itwas a surprise and it was, you
know, fantastic to to do that.
So, yeah, I, I, I absolutelylove the variety of the
different routes that you cantake and not knowing what you're
going to see or where you'regoing to go.
(30:03):
And you know, it was lucky thatI picked that one of the three.
I could easily have pickedanother route and found
something else.
It's that uncertainty as wellas the fact that I knew where I
was going to end up, but thatpath in the middle I didn't know
until I did it.
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
And the money that you raised went towards bibs,
babies and buscot support.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, it went to two actually.
So, um, I split it between bibs, uh, babies in buscott support,
because that was the story onmy, uh, my or our children, um,
and the other one was my, mybrother, uh, had some challenges
from a heart perspective, so I50 went to the british heart
foundation as well, and thosewere the two that I kind of
(30:46):
supported.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, okay, so we're now sort of fast forward to
today.
Yeah, and you've now got the.
You've started off Challengefor Change.
Tell us about Challenge forChange and what inspired it.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, I guess what inspired it was the walk that I
did previously and in the summerI kind of felt I'd like to go
again.
You know it's four years sinceI did it, but I wanted to go
bigger, bolder and better and soI kind of thought around
different options and ultimatelyI thought around the world
(31:21):
appeals.
It's 25,000 miles, 41,000kilometers, but I haven't got 10
years to do that.
Back to the discussion we'vehad about doing it as a team and
bonding.
I felt actually there's such anappetite for people generally
to want to help or to make adifference, so why don't we open
it up and make it globalChallenge for Change?
(31:45):
It took some kind of thinkingand iterations, but
fundamentally it's aboutenabling people around the world
to sign up to either walk orrun or cycle or swim and those
kilometers aggregate up throughthe system that they would sign
up on so that we can trackduring the month of September
(32:05):
this year, from the 1st to the30th, we can track our progress
against the 41,000 kilometersand at the same time people who
sign up will identify a localchildren's charity to raise
funds for that charity.
So the intention really iswe've got a global movement or
(32:28):
global opportunity for people tocome together but that the
impact that we have is at alocal level and really to help
that next generation.
And I think that's importantbecause every country in the
world has issues in terms ofchildren, poverty, education,
health, and therefore this issomething where we can kind of
(32:51):
make a difference and hopefullyhelp a few of those children to
have the opportunity to realisewho they can be.
And that inspiration I guesscomes from and I guess I'm
biased, clearly, but seeing mychildren, but also their friends
that they built up over manyyears.
They get together every year tocelebrate one of their group's
(33:12):
birthday about 60 of them and wego along my wife and I and some
friends go along to celebratewith them every year and just
seeing how they are today andhow kind of morally sensible
they are, how they kind of gotan approach to a work-life
balance, how supportive they areof each other, it gives you
(33:38):
hope for the future and givethem a helping hand or a chance
to realize who they can be.
We can get more of them up intothat kind of bracket of
realizing who they want to be.
And I don't want to bombard youwith stats, bob, but just a few
that kind of come to mind whenwe were looking into this is
from a poverty point of viewthere's 333 million children
(34:01):
globally that's one in sixliving in extreme poverty.
Children are twice as likely tolive in extreme poverty as
adults.
From a hunger point of view, achild dies every 10 seconds from
malnutrition.
So again, that's around theworld.
From an education point of view, there are 59 million children
(34:24):
of elementary school who do nothave an education, and within
that, I think there are nearly15 million girls, primary school
girls who will never have theopportunity to learn to read and
write.
And then you've got childrenwith disabilities.
I think there's 240 millionchildren that have disabilities
around the world, and 90% ofthose with disabilities in
(34:46):
developing countries will neverget to school.
So there's some really kind ofdamning statistics, and it
applies to every country in theworld, and so that's what this
is about really is having achallenge that people can set
themselves a mileage or akilometre target that is right
for them, but at the same time,we can make a difference and
(35:10):
hopefully help a few of thosechildren around the world to
kind of be who they want to beand give them a helping hand,
and I think the aspect that I'vetried to bring into Challenge
for Change is that people can doit individually if they want to
.
But I think more importantly iswhere they do it in teams or
groups.
I want to get schools involved,I want to get running clubs
(35:31):
involved, swimming clubsinvolved.
I want people, ideally in everycountry, to kind of participate
in this and from what we cantell from the research we've
done, I don't think anybody'sdone anything like this before.
I think it's a first the factthat people can pick an activity
that they want to do, the factthat we are helping then the
(35:51):
local charities in thosecountries to give them profile
and to give them funding, andthe fact that we can have some
fun in the process by doing itcollectively.
Then that's what it's all aboutreally.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, I think it's a great model the way there's a
marketing, almost a marketingoperation for people's charities
of choice to do with childrenglobally.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
It's actually a framework.
Bob, you're spot on.
We are not actually.
Challenge for Change is not acharity itself and we don't
actually touch the money.
So the idea is that we providethat framework, that local
children's charities that existget the profile and get the
benefit from that.
So you know, we're at the stagenow where the website is
(36:35):
launched as of last week, soit's called
challengeforchangeorguk, and nowbetween now and September it's
about spreading the word and,you know, hopefully we get some
interest on the back of this aswell but really keen to kind of
get people who want toparticipate, people who want to
(36:57):
be ambassadors we've already gota few on the website already
who are kind of spreading theword and telling their
communities and their friendsand then also companies who
might want to kind of partner orsponsor in this process.
Because, back to our experienceagain at Juicen, I think
companies get a massive benefithere, a from a branding point of
(37:19):
view, of being associated withsomething like this.
Secondly, they're helping thecommunity in which they exist
like this.
Secondly, they're helping thecommunity in which they exist.
And then, thirdly, you've gotthe opportunity to have a team
aspect or a team competitiveaspect where you can almost have
in a company North versus Southversus East versus West, and
have a bit of a team kind ofchallenge, and then all of that
(37:41):
aggregates up so that we're ableto see the global picture and
what we're doing at a macrolevel.
So massive opportunities and itappeals, I think, to audiences
of all types.
My mother in her mid 80s willprobably do a couple of miles
and my niece in Australia is anultra runner.
She'll do hundreds of miles andeverybody's welcome.
We're targeting schools becauseI think getting kids to do a
(38:04):
couple of laps around the fieldtogether collectively will
involve them and give them anexperience of being part of the
team that goes around the world.
So lots of opportunities to dosome fun stuff.
And and I should add, by theway, that whilst I'm talking
about it, it's not all me um,I've got a massive support from
12 other people who are part ofa steering group who are doing
(38:27):
this pro bono as well, andwithout them we would be nowhere
near launching this.
And that's also fun, becauseyou're kind of working as a team
to bring something to life andwe've obviously got a way to go
until September.
But yeah, we're proud of thewebsite, we're proud of the
branding and the assets thatwe've created, and now it's all
(38:49):
about getting people on board.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, so it sounds great, and I think that, um, the
good thing about it is that youcan be anywhere in the world.
So if you're a runner, acyclist, a jogger, a walker,
what would?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
um, what's the best way to, uh, to get people to?
What do they need to do to signup?
I think the best thing, bob,really is just to visit the
website, because on the websiteis is the you click on a button
and then you're into the systemto to register and then, once
you've registered, there's alink into, into just giving to,
to kind of pick your charity andand if you, if you don't have a
charity in mind, then there'ssomeone on the website as a, as
an, but I think if you go tochallengeforchangeorguk, then
(39:30):
just follow the steps and, yeah,we'd love to have you have
everybody involved, and I thinkit's all about kind of creating
a movement, a global movement,but creating an impact at a
local level, and this is amassive opportunity to bring
people together and tap intothat generosity that a lot of
(39:51):
people have in tough times.
Right, I mean, we understandeconomies are challenging and
life is challenging, but itdoesn't need to cost a lot and I
think every little helps andwhat we can do is be a channel
to kind of help futuregenerations really.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
David, we mentioned about listeners going to the
website.
If there's somebody who islistening to this episode and
really feels that they'dactually like to do something
altruistic, what would you sayto?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
them I'd say you know , this is a fantastic
opportunity for you.
It's easy to get involved.
It's easy to let your friendsand your family and your
colleagues know that this istaking place.
It's easy to organize a teamthat you can be part of and that
you can kind of get peopleinvolved that you want to get.
(40:40):
And I think, ultimately, when Iwas talking with some of my
colleagues, I guess in SouthAfrica and Australia, about this
, what they said to me was theyreally want to get involved
because there's been noframework that has enabled them
to do something like this before.
And that is what this is it's aframework to support children's
(41:03):
charities that exist today, andso my message to anybody is you
can make a difference, a bigdifference here, and you can
also have some fun in theprocess.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Well, it's been great talking to you, David, and to
catch up after all these years.
I'm looking forward to readingyour book and it's been very
inspiring to hear how yourinterest in walking has led to
the great work that you're nowdoing in helping children
through Challenge for Change.
And if we've got any listenersinterested in taking part in
events, or if they'd like toorganise their own event this
September 2025, you can find alink in the episode show notes.
(41:39):
My guest today has been DavidFenton.
David is a marketing director,Walker, author of the book Miles
, Milestones and Memories, andhe's founder of the Challenge
for Change project and, asmentioned, you can find links to
the project and also David'sbook in the show notes.
Thank you for coming on theshow, David.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Thanks a lot, Bob.
I've enjoyed it and hopefullyyou're going to be signing up
soon Definitely.
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