Braiding Paths to Success: Essence China's Journey from Underdog to Empire Builder

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to Underdogs, bootstrapers and Game
Changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(00:21):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our Content forGood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Underdogs,

(00:44):
bootstrapers and Game Changers.
It is always awesome when I canfind a guest.
That is the trifecta All threeof these things in one.
I want to welcome to the showtoday Essence, china.
Thank you so much for beinghere.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Absolutely.
It's an honor so many things tohit on your story, but we're
going to focus in one particularmanner because I think it's
something that our underdogs canreally appreciate.
The rule isn't always rule.
No doesn't always mean no.
If you come from nothing, youstill can advocate for yourself.
I think that's not somethingthat's taught to, especially

(01:20):
people raised without wealth, inpoverty, that sort of stuff.
That's what we're taught.
That, like this, is what we'regiving you.
Take it as it is, and youdidn't, and I'm astounded by the
story.
But first, I know your start inbusiness is amazing and, rather
than me tell it, I would lovefor you to give the audience a
little insight on how youstarted your first business.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
For sure.
Well, I started in my parentson my childhood laundry room,
and so what happened was myyounger brother wanted to get
his hair braided and crisscross.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
I don't know if you remember crisscross.
Oh yeah, jump jump.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, and so he's seen the video and he was like I
want my hair like that.
Well, I was like well, let mejust try.
So I started braiding and Irealized that I got very
passionate about it and one daymy father seen it and he's an
entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
He was just like you should try to make some money
with this you know, and so whathappened was, later on, I
started doing like high schoolfriends hair and I didn't really
need a lot, I just needed likea comb and some hair grease,
which we had in our bathroom,you know.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Awesome.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
And so, over time, when my mother realized that
okay, well, both my parentsrealized that this was something
that I could actually like,grow, they allowed me to utilize
, like our laundry room, to turnit into a salon.
So my mother went to like ayard sale, bought me some chairs
and I literally set it up likea salon.
So I'm like 15, 16 doing hairand I'm, you know, making $5 a

(02:40):
head.
Yeah.
For me it was like that's all Iever needed, cause Wendy's.
I love Wendy's, so I would get$5 bills.
So, for me it was super cool.
But, um, but I do remember,maybe prior to that, one of my
mother's friends asked me couldI do her son's hair?
And she paid me $15.
And at the time I'm going totalk about in the nineties, that

(03:01):
was everything.
I was like I can get paid forthis.
And then that's when I was like, okay, I'm going to continue to
learn how to get paid for this.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
So that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
And then how did that parlay into having the studio
and now the school?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Oh gosh, it was.
It was a journey.
So, you know, I, you know, didhair from maybe 15 to about 20
in the laundry room and Istacked my money because I
wasn't really much of a spender.
And so I ended up moving awayto Maryland.
And when I moved away toMaryland I was, you know, trying
to start my life and figure outwhat I wanted to do, but I kept

(03:36):
on coming back to hair becauseit was something I could do with
my hands.
It was easy.
Yeah.
And so while I was out there, Iwas able to braid in the salon
and the barber shop, and therule wasn't well, essentially
there wasn't regulations forbraiders in the state of
Maryland, and so I was able to,you know, work and employ myself
.
Well, I ended up moving back toPhoenix about three years after

(03:59):
that and when I moved back Iwas like divinely inspired to
move back.
But then when I moved back, Ikind of felt like, well, I can't
do hair anymore because the lawis such that you have to have a
license.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
So the law was different in Maryland than it
was here in Phoenix, right?

Speaker 3 (04:15):
And so I already knew what the law was.
But I was just thinking tomyself like well, if it's
different in Maryland, you know,maybe something could be
different out here.
So I just called them.
I was very curious.
I was like let me just call thestate board of cosmetology and
just ask them like okay, what doI need to do to be legal in the
state of Arizona?
if I do these things, and so Iexplained to them like I've been

(04:36):
doing here professionally.
I've been doing braids, locksand twists, you know, which is
more the our natural texture ofhair.
What do I need to do to belegal?
And they told me that I had toget a license, and for me that
was problematic because I feltlike I've already been doing
this professionally.
You know what I'm doing.
Not only that you don't teach ortest on what I actually do.

(04:59):
Yeah, so you can't enhance myskills, but you want me to go to
school for a year and a halfand pay $10,000 plus right To do
something or, essentially, tolearn all these other skills
cuts, colors, you know terms,stuff that I'm not even going to
be doing just to have a pieceof paper to say, okay, now
you're free to go and do hair.
I thought that was crazy.

(05:19):
So, you know, when I got outthe phone, I just was like like
upset.
I'm like this is not fair, likelike it would be different if
they had like some sort oflimited license or some sort of
special, specialized license,because you know, I understand
with hair, you know they'reconcerned about sanitation,
they're concerned about, youknow, the consumer right.
But the majority of hair schoolis not about that.

(05:41):
I mean, you do a week of that,maybe you know, so they didn't
give me any other options.
So when I got the phone I justrealized like something has to
be done.
You know no kidding.
And so you know, I prayed aboutit honestly and I just was like,
what do I need to do?
And I felt like I needed tolook for a law firm.
Now, mind you, I'm 23 years oldat the time.

(06:01):
This is 20 years ago, good foryou.
So I was like look for a lawfirm, okay.
So I'm like AOL, and you knowwhat I'm saying Dial up speed.
Yeah, I'm not looking for youknow any law firm, because I
don't even know what I'm really,what type of law I need to be
looking for, and so I probablycame across two or three.
I wish I was journaling at thetime.
So I can really remember thedetails but, I, came across two

(06:25):
or three law firms and I feellike the third one I contacted,
you know, was the Institute forJustice.
Little did I know that theywere a nationwide law firm that
fights for civil or economicliberties.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Interesting yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
So they fight on the behalf of people who are being
stifled by government to be ableto earn an honest living, wow,
you know.
And so they had just opened anoffice here in Phoenix.
Okay, and not only that, theyhad already set the precedent in
another state.
So they had already fought acase just like mine and one.

(07:02):
And so when I talked to thelawyer, you know, I told him
pretty much what I did and hewas excited.
I don't know why he's excited,but this is his first case you
know, and maybe he already knowsthe history of the company and
he's like, oh, this is shoo it,you know, I don't know, and so
you know again, with me beingyoung and not really
understanding, like, how lawworks, or you know if something
can really be done.

(07:22):
I just was like I got to try sowe meet, and I mean within.
I don't even know, it was veryquick but we met and maybe
within a month we filed EssenceFarmer versus the state board of
Cosmetology and it pretty muchwas like this is unfair to make
her to have to go get a licenseto do stuff that she's.

(07:42):
You know what I'm saying?
That you all don't even teach.
You know so.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Who would teach?
Is that a private institutionthat would teach that class?

Speaker 3 (07:52):
To be honest with you that education is far fewer
than in between.
That's the reason why I end upstarting a school.
You know, because you know,yeah, it is very ancestral it's.
You know, it's something thatcomes from our culture but not
everybody knows.
You know, just because you knowyou're a black woman doesn't
mean that you know how to dobraids or locks.
You know, and there are peoplethat really want to learn.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, that's actually amazing because, like, I knew
the story where you like had tofight basically the state, the
powers that be, to like getsomething passed.
That wasn't right.
But then it's like I didn't puttogether that like this also
ended up being the reason youstarted the school too, like
that, like, and we do thebullying podcast, you know, it's
like usually that thing whenthey were like younger, like,

(08:32):
let's say, singing for TaylorSwift, you know it's like they
used to make fun of her all thetime for singing, or Lady Gaga,
knowing she was going to be astar.
Sure, lady Gaga, they tease herfor it.
And then what does that end upbeing?
That?
It bends up being theirultimate power in life.
And it feels like that here too, and I love that.
You made that like stupid thing, mean something, and now like,
and now you get to train otherpeople in your school, right,

(08:53):
yeah, what is what's the worstthat could happen with somebody
with, like, why have regulationson something like this?
Like, like, give me their sideof why you'd need to have
regulations.
What can I do to hurt you ifI'm doing this in in my backyard
?

Speaker 3 (09:07):
I think you know, ultimately, when people have
boards, you know it's forstandard, right, and which I
completely understand, but thereis no quote, unquote national
standard for natural hair.
We don't have a board, you know, and all cosmetology or all
hair is not the same and that'swhy, you know, the barber and
cosmetology are even separate,because it's hair but it's a

(09:28):
different.
You know practice, you know.
And so when it comes to naturalhair and the cultural practices
with braiding and locking, it'sjust different.
And so when you say what's theworst that can happen, I mean
when we're not working withchemicals, you know what I mean.
You know tension you know, liketoo much tension to the braids

(09:49):
are too tight you know, whatwould that do to?
You.
Yeah, it could prevent.
I mean, it could bring aboutalopecia, right, which is like
the loss of hair.
But I think, even with that,that people just really need to
educate themselves you know,there are books, you know, you
can self-teach yourself you know, and I think it's just about

(10:10):
having a standard withinyourself.
You know, wanting to give themost professional and excellent
service.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, I guess the reason I asked that question is
because I'm trying to find outwhy that regulation would have
existed to begin with.
Right, what is it that we threwin the way?
You know that like it needed tobe there and now it's struck
down in Arizona, right.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
You don't have to have it anymore.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, yeah, Well.
For me, I think it's power, andcontrol.
Honestly.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, and then the fee of how much career did it
used to be?

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Absolutely.
You know the school and afterthat you got to maintain a
license and you know all ofthose things.
And even after the law gotpassed, you know, and I'd
eventually open the salon, theyeven tried to come to my salon
and I literally called my lawyerand I'm just like what's going
on?
They're literally trying tocome here?
And he was like they have nojurisdiction.
If they come back, give them mycard.
Who's they?
The state board of cosmetology.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
My goodness.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
So do you feel like they came after you a little bit
, because of it Like been deadPossibly.
I mean they knew who I was, Ifyou could say that on the
podcast.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean I'm sure they knew who I was.
I feel like I was like somewhattargeted, I don't know.
But you know, what ended uphappening was Janet Napolitano,
who was the governor at the time, heard about the case and was
like this is crazy.
Now, mind you, I'm on the coverof the business section of the
Arizona Republic, like it's astory, you know what I mean, and
so she apparently heard aboutit.
I don't know how it came acrossher desk and she was like this

(11:32):
is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
How much of getting that PR coverage helped push
this across the goal line, youthink?

Speaker 3 (11:37):
I definitely feel like it helped because we never
stepped foot in court.
Yeah.
So this was we filed and therewas, you know them going back
and forth.
Then it's, you know all thispublication and PR.
And then Janet Apolitano signsoff and amends a law that pretty
much exempts all braiders, allopticians, all natural
hairstyles in the state ofArizona from having to obtain a

(11:59):
license.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
I'm so proud of you for that.
I'd like.
There's so many things to hitin this that's going to help
them.
You know, one of the things islike how did you learn not to
take no for an answer there?
Like, how did you have thatstrength?
It's like we were talking alittle bit before the show.
Let me preface it this way.
You know, like I have a quickstory that I'll tell.
So my youngest brother and Ihopefully he doesn't get too mad

(12:20):
at me telling this story but hegoes in to go to college, right
, and walks in and he's going tofile for financial aid because
he doesn't have any money.
He's working at Blockbuster orsomething like that, and they go
well, we're going to need yourparents W2s, you know.
And so he comes out of there.
I see him, he's all down andhe's like he's like Tyler, I
can't go to college, I can'tafford it, they won't give me

(12:41):
financial aid because they don'thave our parents or W2s.
And so I went in there the nextday and I looked at the people
and I was like, why won't yougive my brother financial aid in
there?
Like, well, because he doesn'thave your parents W2s.
So, like, my dad's been inprison for 15 years and my mom's
never had a job in her life.

(13:01):
That's a W2 job.
If this system isn't built forsomebody like my brother, who's
it supposed to help?
He had financial aid the nextday, right, and like I, wouldn't
have been able to do that.
16 years old 18 years old we dostuff for.
We're working on something forFoster Hub kids aging out of
foster care and one of thebiggest things that I see is

(13:22):
people don't know how toadvocate for themselves.
Malcolm Gladwell talks about itin his book too.
If you're raised of, not of,means, you don't think you can
challenge the system.
So what can we tell underdogsout there about them?
Like being told to stay intheir place, being told you know
, like this isn't for you.
Like how do they?
How do we get them to acceptthat no isn't always the answer,

(13:42):
or the rule isn't always therule?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Ah, that's a great question, I think for me, I was
one, just young and fearless,and to be honest with you.
I feel like I remember readingin a magazine article where
something had happened to awoman in another state where she
actually got locked up forbraiding, Like it was like a
undercover cop came and to gether hair done, and once she

(14:07):
started braiding hair becauseshe was braiding down of her
home it was illegal, and so sheended up facing, you know, some
criminal charges for that, andso I remember reading something
about it and how there was goingto be like a challenge against
it, so maybe that planted a seed.
Now we're talking years prior tomy stuff, but it wasn't

(14:27):
something I consciously held inmy mind, but I felt like,
because I also lived in Marylandand the case was it was
different, I was like somethingcan be changed.
Like I just felt that there'slike something can be changed,
and I'm just a determined personand I also thought it was very
unfair.
And so for me, fairness is, youknow, high up on my list.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
And so.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I'm just like, if this is unfair, something has to
be changed and at the end ofthe day, even if it could not be
changed, I had to try.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
And then I was hoping , by having you on this episode
today, maybe you're that sparkfor somebody, that person that
challenged the system, even metelling my embarrassing family
story.
I hope somebody out there islike getting that, like, okay,
this isn't a fair rule, I needto advocate for myself.
You know, it's proven that thepoor don't advocate for
themselves.
I want them doing it becauseit's I, in this case, stepped in
for my brother, right, but noteverybody has the older brother

(15:19):
out there to step in for him.
And I wouldn't have been able todo that at 16, challenge the
system I had built, I had grown,I had gotten some confidence,
you had seen it happen, and soit's like I think maybe right
now somebody could be out therelike she challenged the system,
the status quo, and she won.
So that's what I want the bigmessage of this show to be.
You know, today is like you canchallenge things that you don't

(15:40):
think are fair.
Yeah, I want to backtrack justslightly to give people a little
bit more value into thatinsight around regulations and
stuff.
Yeah, people, one of theirbiggest fears we know we work
with business owners all thetime and it's the red tape that
keeps the underdog entrepreneursout of business most of the
time.
It's not the hard work, whichactually that's the part of
business that I don't think istalked about enough these days,

(16:02):
but I believe most underdogs arecapable of the hard work.
It's the red tape, it's the Idon't have the license, I don't
have the LLC, I don't have thesethings.
How did you originally lookinto like regulations around
this and what can you tell me assome insight into helping those
out there that are likeconfused about licensing and
things for their particularindustry, like what's a good way
to navigate that?

Speaker 3 (16:25):
I mean, I kind of always knew that, you know, if
you braided hair, you were insomebody's kitchen, like you
were.
Just when we used to get ourhair done as kids, we were going
to somebody's house.
We never went to a salon, butit was because they relegated to
these spaces their homes,because in order to do this
particular thing you have to goto school, which it didn't fit

(16:46):
within, if that makes sense.
So I always inherently knewthat, you know, it was not
necessarily like illegal,because I knew it wasn't legal,
but that's how they deemed it.
But as far as like looking intoregulations, like I think you
just have to question, I calledand I was like hey, I'm a young
kid, you know what I'm saying.
I'm just like I just want toknow, I want to understand the

(17:06):
thinking and the frameworkbehind this so I can know if I'm
within.
Because you know, when I movedback to Phoenix I really was
like sad, because this issomething I really love, I
really enjoy.
I feel like this is what I wasborn to do and I don't want to
go work a conventional andtraditional job.
It wasn't in my blood, if thatmakes sense.
And so I'm just thinking likehow am I going to navigate this

(17:27):
if you know, the regulations aresuch that it keeps me out.
And I knew that I wanted to grow, I knew that I wanted to
provide a professionalenvironment for my clientele.
But how can I do that out of ahome?
Like that's not fair.
Like I'm a businesswoman but Ican't open a business unless I
go through these portals.
And so I feel like calling andat least asking, like whatever
it is that you're, you know,trying to do or whatever path

(17:49):
you're trying to go down,inquire, because I think
sometimes we look at things andwe make it this monstrous thing
is only because we don't havethe information.
Yeah, but you can ask, you canGoogle, you know what I'm saying
.
Like it's a phone call away.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's a wonderful point and I know we're beating
up kind of on regulatorycommissions and things like that
today.
But what I've found in dealingwith the city, the state, you
know tax regulation, you knowthat sort of stuff if you're a
nice person and you go down andask for a little insight or help
.
I found they're alwaysreasonable you know, like I

(18:22):
can't speak to every entity.
I can't speak to the ArizonaCosmetology Board, but you know,
when I've dealt with a lot ofsystems, I've found out there,
like if you go in there likelook, I don't know what I'm
doing, you know it's like canyou help me with this?
And you're polite about it.
They're so used to peoplecoming in there and being jerks
to them Like I found that theycan be extremely helpful.
Yeah, I think that's dope yeah.
So I mean I think to your pointit's like that's a great thing

(18:45):
to do.
If you don't know what to do, Imean you can come in here too.
We'll help you research it.
But you know it's like.
That is like one thing thatsuper frustrates me is we get
more regulation around smallbusiness and there is reasons we
have those things.
You know we could think of 50industries that it's a good
thing we have regulations aroundthem and things like that, but
it's like at the same time, thisis another barrier to entry to

(19:05):
small business.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I feel bare minimum if we'regoing to have these regulations
.
There should be like a one stopshop where you can Google.
Like I want to be in the hairbusiness in Arizona.
Give me a list of everything Ineed to do.
Yeah.
And that's so frustrating to methat that doesn't exist, because
you and I now we can navigateany business.
We're going to go out there,we're going to figure it out.

(19:26):
We have to make 16 websitevisits maybe on some businesses,
you know, find out whatinsurance I need, find out what
license I need, you know, likethat sort of stuff.
But it's frustrating to mestill to this day.
You know that we don't make iteasier for underdogs to open
these businesses.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, Well, you know, I'm super grateful for my
lawyer because I was only seeinglike the first step.
I didn't even know that the lawcould change.
I was like the first step wascontact the state board, the
second step was to contact thelaw office and then they filed
for in my behalf.
But my lawyer was such ablessing to me that he was
asking me, well, what's the nameof your salon going to be
called, you know?

(20:01):
And he brought me the papers tolet me like to look at what a
LLC was.
So he seemed further beyond.
That's awesome.
I just seen the first step andhe's like, okay, well, once this
is done, like you're going togo into business.
And I didn't see it that far.
To be honest with you, that'sawesome.
And so it was just one step ata time.
So he helped me getincorporated and from that
standpoint, you know, he broughtme the papers, like was it
going to be a partnership or Ccorporate?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I'm like I don't know .

Speaker 3 (20:24):
I took these papers home to my father and asked him
you know, and so he, heliterally filed the paperwork,
or you know, his firm helpedfile the paperwork for me to get
incorporated, and so I gotincorporated in 2004, but I
didn't open my first salon until2006.
Oh, wow.
But the reality was the it wasfear.
It was fear that I would not beable to do it because, yes, I

(20:48):
was operating at that time outof my apartment and I'm braiding
hair and I'm functioning as abusiness, but I don't have a
storefront.
But, you know, going into afull fledged business.
I didn't see myself in thatlight and, to be honest with you
, you know, I think society andeven culture sometimes can kind
of frame your mind to think thatyou're not that like you can't

(21:09):
be, you're too young.
I'm saying, and be honest withyou, my mindset was a business
person we talked about in the90s, 2000,.
Like is a is an older white man.
Like I didn't see myself as abusiness owner.
And so you know, I'm 24 yearsold, I've changed the law, but
what?
They got the fire up under mybutt one day.
Now, mind you, I'm in, I'm innursing school, because my

(21:30):
mother, she didn't see it, shedidn't see the vision.
So she's like okay, you camehome, what are you going to do
with your life?
And I'm like I don't know.
I'm just moving based off of howI feel like God is moving me.
But you know so.
She helped me enroll in nursingschool.
So this whole time I'm goingthrough this course with the
Institute with Justice, I'mstill a nurse, I'm in nursing
school.
Wow, so when the law getspassed, I end up finishing

(21:54):
nursing school, I get my licenseas a nurse.
But I was hiding behind.
Nursing school was like well,the law, you know, even though
the law is passed, I don't, youknow, I'm in school, I can't do
it.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
You know one day.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'm driving down the street right and not far from my
apartment at the time, and Isee this braids salon that's
opened and I'm like not mad atwhat they're doing, but had it
not been for what I did, theywouldn't even be able to open.
And I'm driving past them to gobraid hair at my apartment.
Yeah, and I'm just like I gotto step into what I've.

(22:28):
You know what I'm sayinginitiated.
And so, at that time, I hadalready graduated nursing school
.
I was working as a nurse and I,just one day, was there and I
was, like this is not where I'msupposed to be.
Like I can do this, but I don'tfeel like this is what I was
created to do.
Yeah, you know I'm not alignedwith this and so I just quit.
One day and I was like I'm justgoing to just focus on me and

(22:49):
just invest in me.
So I was braiding hair out ofmy apartment and one day I told
my father, you know about thissalon I had seen.
He was like well, all you gotto do is go look for a building.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, like it wassuch a practical step.
I didn't think about it.
It was just like, yeah, youwant to go from your apartment
into a storefront, but the firststep is just to go inquire

(23:10):
again, go ask how much is it?

Speaker 1 (23:12):
What's available?

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Get the information You're almost.
Sometimes we box ourselves outof these opportunities because
we don't even know what theyrequire.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
You just got to ask for the requirements.
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
And so that's pretty much like what helped me get
into that next place is that Iseen that salon and I'm like I
got to move forward.
Yeah.
And so I went and I looked inmy area and I just saw a call in
numbers, you know, and that'skind of what ended up helping me
to finally open my salon.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
You know I like that you hit on the rich white old
dude for business because,believe it or not, I didn't
think business was for me either.
I thought that was for somebodythat grew up wealthy, had the
rich dad that could teach thembusiness and all that sort of
stuff.
I didn't think business was forme.
So we watched a lot of thosebig entrepreneurial gurus in the
world.
They're like, yeah, I knew at13 years old I was going to be

(24:02):
an entrepreneur, I was sellingcandy bars and this sort of
stuff and like I don't think yousaw it either.
You were an entrepreneur superearly.
You just didn't even realize it.
Yeah.
For me.
I'm like that's not for me,that's for somebody else, I'm
destined to a job, you know.
And then, like my story is alittle bit different.
You know, it's like I ended upgetting pushed by regulations
into my business, actually, kindof in similar way, you know,

(24:22):
it's like I had to do it becauseI was breaking a rule that I
wasn't supposed to break.
And then I ended up with abusiness over it and derailed my
entire life, much like you.
I want to hit two key pointsand tracking backwards just a
little bit.
Let's talk about publicrelations.
When you're trying to getsomething moving going,
especially something seeminglyhard to accomplish like changing

(24:45):
a law, can you tell me about,like, how you guys navigated,
getting involved with the mediaand getting them on your side?
To be honest, with you.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
It was like, mind you , I'm 23.
So I'm just going through theprocess.
I don't even know that I'mfighting on behalf of everybody.
It was just more so when I sayI didn't know I was making
history.
You know, I mean, but my lawyerwas the one that was doing the
all the work and all thegroundwork.
Next thing you know he calls mewas like, hey, we got this radio

(25:15):
interview.
And I'm like, okay.
So I got to go down to thestation and do this radio
interview.
Hey, we need to go ahead andtake some photos of you.
I didn't know what the photosbefore.
Next thing, I know I'm on thecover of the Glendale, I mean
the glenn.
I was on the cover of theGlendale Republic and I was on
the cover of the businesssection in the Arizona Republic.
That's crazy, then, and Ialways forget.
I really wish I was, like Isaid, taking note of this, but I

(25:36):
think it was dateline.
Nbc flew from DC no way to myapartment and interviewed me in
my apartment about this case.
It never aired because by thetime that you know that they
were gonna air, it already beensettled.
Ah and so I called them like hey, can I get the footage or
whatever?
Like, oh, because it neveraired, we can't release a
footage or whatever.
But they flew a team from DC tointerview me.

(25:57):
So all of this was just becausethe Institute for Justice was
doing their work and you know,apparently they had connections.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I'll bet they got a line that that was gonna happen.
We had a similar circumstance.
We had somebody come into abusiness that actually excuse me
, I don't think he had everactually been in the building.
And then he sent me a messagepersonally and he said hey, if
you don't give me X, I'm gonnaput a bad review on your
business and so, literallyextorting me.
You know it's like, I knowreviews are important to your

(26:25):
business.
If you don't give this thing tome, then I'm gonna write a bad
review.
And so I sent this to yelp andLike, literally as proof, and I
was like, look this personbecause I told him I'm like we
won't be extorted, do what yougot to do.
You know it's like so, and Ithink yelp's gonna back me up
because I have evidence theysaid, sorry, nothing, we can do
so and then, like we pasted his,his, his initial response as

(26:48):
our response to this.
You know, like fighting it sopeople could see that like, look
, this guy literally tried toextort us and he goes message me
personally.
He goes you stupid mother-effer, now I'm gonna go get you on
Google.
And he did.
He wrote this horrible,horrible review.
You know it's like sickening,you know, and you know what it's
like to get a bad review foryour business.
It hits you here.
You work every like I startedin a dirt lot trying to build

(27:11):
this thing.
You know, it's like every inchof my being went towards it.
It's more than my baby, youknow.
It's like so then it like justaffects you personally.
And so my business partner,elliot, gets on Reddit.
He starts complaining aboutwhat happened because it was so
unjust.
We find out later Elliot's agenius on looking stuff up
online.
He had done this to, like abunch of other companies he had

(27:32):
been.
Now he was in the US illegally.
He had sued a hair restorationclinic for impotency and won.
So he this was his MO, you knowand then like Yelp was allowing
this to further on.
So the word gets out.
The next thing we know, cnngets ahold of us and wants to
interview us about it.
And they interview us.
Story didn't go live.

(27:52):
But guess that?
We guess what.
The next thing we knew thatreview was gone, mm-hmm.
So you know to your point.
I think getting the mediainvolved can be a tremendous
ally.
One thing I want to touch on,to like hitting that, because I
think our audience should knowthis.
You know it's like use yoursocial media.
You know it's like it'simportant to know that you have
a voice, it's important toadvocate for yourself, kind of

(28:14):
like.
Back to that throwback on thediscussion, read the founder of
Walmart's book, sam Walton.
He says the one thing you cando in life to compete with
Walmart is Personalization.
This is the best tool forpersonalization.
If there's something going onwith your business, and the
powers that be the big dogs arecoming after you.
Number one email me.
I'll have you on this show.
Will.
Will do everything we can asglave to help you with something

(28:35):
unfair you know it's like, butget out there and talk about it
on social media too.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, I wish I had that toolback in the day you know yeah
yeah, there was no social mediaat the time.
But yeah, I definitely say yourvoice is so powerful and once
you are able to Use it, you justdon't know what it can do.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
I didn't want to derail our whole discussion, but
I think some of those keypoints like the, the main focus
I wanted today was likeadvocating for yourself.
It's so important knowing youcan have it, knowing that it
isn't just the rich white oldman that can have business
success.
You know in fact I've met a lotof them they're pretty lazy.
At the end of the day, you canwork your way up through them.
They're no smarter than you,you know.

(29:16):
It's like that's where we tryto fill in with this program too
.
Like I, choose guests like youto come on and help rile people
up to get what they need to getdone.
Don't take no for an answer.
It's like we're trying to stepin as the rich father you don't
have.
You know.
It's like they're giving advice.
It's not the money.
Yeah it's the advice, mm-hmm.
I mean, how often do you seesomething on social media as a

(29:37):
business owner?
Right now, that is completegarbage for a new business
person?
Oh yeah, and you know whathappens if you have that rich,
successful dad.
You go hey dad, what do youthink of this?
And he goes that's BS.
Don't listen to it a momentlonger and you don't get
derailed by it.
Mm-hmm.
If you're some poor kid, youknow.
It's like, yeah, oh, I shouldstart six LLCs because somehow
that gets it, so I can make aloan, take out a loan, and then

(29:57):
the answer is I'm a millionaireafterwards.
You know, it's like like thestuff we see online is is
horrible, and it makes meespecially riled up because it's
not targeted at the Rich kidthat can afford to take those
mistakes, it's targeted as thepoor kid that doesn't have
anybody to combat them.
Yeah, how do we?
help more underdogs get intobusiness and know they can do it
.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Oh, how do we help more underdogs?
Listen to this podcast.
You know, I think I think Alongwith listening to this podcast
is continue to invest inyourself, invest in your mind.
I think you know what reallyhelped me was reading books.
You know, at the time thathelped me to realize that my

(30:37):
current sick circumstance andsituation doesn't have to
continue to be this.
Yeah, and that Broadened my, my, my understanding of what I
could even achieve.
Yeah, you know, and some of thereasons why I didn't move
forward With my business,because I didn't see it as a
business, I see it as a hustle,like I kept on saying I need to
get a real job.
Like this is what was in mymind.

(30:57):
It's how it was programmed.
Yeah, you know you go to school,You're in debt, get a job and
then pay them back.
Yeah, I mean that type ofmentality.
And so you know, especiallywith certain, I guess, pives and
businesses where people don'tsee them as like I'm not
honorable, not necessarilyhonorable, but like worthy, like
you know, it's the lawyer orit's the doctor, it's the.

(31:18):
You know, I mean thoseTraditional paths that sometimes
we look at what we want to doas less than yeah which is so
erroneous.
You know, and so I had to learnto I don't know just put the
path that I was gonna be on assomething that was worthy,
something that was professional,and so when I was able to shift

(31:38):
my mind about it, that alsogave me power.
And so I think that, no matterwhat that person wants to do,
whether they're creative, likedon't limit it to thinking that
it's just a hustle yeah, you canhave it, it's a viable business
, absolutely yeah.
And so you know, I would havenever thought, braiding in my,
my, my parents laundry room.
What it took me to, literally,like you know we'll talk about

(32:01):
this maybe on another time butlike my hairstyle was all over
the world, my hair is all aboutmet so After I opened the salon,
I did my first photo shoot withthis photographer and this
photographer was just like,recommended through my industry
and Granted.
There are photographers all inPhoenix, arizona, but I flew him
from New York to work with him.

(32:22):
That's not knowing what it wasgoing to produce, but I did
these hairstyles, shot them andthe the idea was to get
publicized.
However, I didn't know that itwas gonna hit Essence magazine,
and for for those, you know whatEssence magazine?
That's a nationally recognizedmagazine.
So my hairstyle got on insidethe magazine and where?
Showcase my hair salon and itwas in Glendale at the time and

(32:45):
then, months later, they tooksome other pictures from that
same shoot and put it on thecover of Essence magazine.
That's awesome, they're hot hairedition and so, from that, this
is like right when like this is2011, so this is right when
Instagram is like starting topop and my hairstyle went viral.
Well, from it going viral.
Yeah people were now puttingthis.
They're putting this particularhairstyle on their business

(33:06):
cards, on their flyers, on theirbillboards, like even in New
York.
You can probably walk down thestreet and see one of my
hairstyles.
That's amazing, then I startedhaving people hit me up from
Africa, from Portugal, from, Imean literally France, and my
hairstyle is on On the, on thefront of these hair salons
because you know we think aboutit.
People are advertising to bringmore money in.
Well, if you're advertising thehottest style in the game,

(33:29):
they're like oh you did that oroh you could do that, and some
people were acting like they diddo it.
But yeah sure.
So, um you know, I say all thatto say I would have never
thought that me startingbraiding hair in my parents
laundry room would took me to toall of these heights.
You know and I think again, weminimize and we think small of
ourselves and small of our ideas, like, yeah, knock that out,

(33:50):
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I mean that's the biggest thing.
It's like if people only knewright.
I mean it took me at least 25years or so to really see that I
could have something In lifethat was more than you know.
Just like what I thought lifegave me, mm-hmm.
And it's like if people couldjust see that it's just this,
it's clicking this thing.
Yeah, it's not what you have ordon't have, you know it's, it's
clicking this thing and justtelling yourself yes, it's

(34:12):
possible.
You know, like I don't reallybuy into the whole like law of
attraction and stuff.
I mean some people do andthat's great and it works for
them.
I mean the one thing it does dofor you is it says you can have
this right.
I mean I believe that I don'tbelieve that magic attraction in
my life if I just think aboutit.
But like I think the second,you can turn that key and say I
can have it.
Now you're on the step to theright path.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
Well, I think the biggest thing is like Again what
you said is like the root of itis the belief system.
Yeah.
Well, you can shift the beliefsystem.
It shifts how you may behaveand how you show up.
Yeah and I think that you know,if you're afraid and you think a
small of it, then you're notgonna move boldly, you're not
gonna go ask the questions,you're not going to do the
research, you're not gonnainvest in yourself.
But when you start to think youknow, I can have it, I it is

(34:58):
possible, yeah, then you starttaking those bold steps which
now brings you from belief tobehavior, to becoming, yeah,
like now, you're, you're it, whynot me?
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Then you start saying why not me?
And then the second you startto stack up the things that like
, why me?
It's like, well, I'll work hard.
You know I'll work two jobs ifI have to.
You know it's like, well, youknow, like I don't take no for
an answer.
Well, you know, like I'm gonnawork out and put my body and
mind in the right place, like,if you start doing these things
and have some belief, then youcan have anything you want and I
can tell you the spoiled richkid out there right now he won't

(35:30):
work as hard as you.
Yeah.
That's your advantage.
People don't realize that inthe world when you're raised
without the advantage, thatactually is an advantage.
You know, and I bring this up,it is you know it's like we deal
with stuff in our childhoodthat the rich, entitled kid
never can dream of right, and sotherefore, when you have a
business problem and people usedto ask me all the time, tell

(35:51):
her, how are you not freakingout right now?
You know it's like, well, thisis kind of like I wouldn't say
this, but it's kind of littlecompared to what I've dealt with
in my life.
You know, so I'm gonna stay calm, I'm gonna stay collected, I'm
gonna solve the problem.
Let's let's have a new day, youknow.
And so I think that's like Ilove having this discussion with
you and like.
Another reason is like you fitmy silly hypothesis for the

(36:12):
world, you know, because it'slike my silly hypothesis with
glaive, and what I'm doing withthis is, if we help more
underdogs get into business,then that helps more underdogs
in business.
We help get more women intobusiness.
What do you think happens?
More women into business?
Absolutely you we help get like.
You're the mostunderrepresented class of
entrepreneur African-Americanwoman.

(36:33):
We get more African-Americanwomen into business.
You've already proven it.
You've gotten anotherAfrican-American woman directly
into business.
Yeah and and then, once we haveour success and we come from
these areas that frustrate usand things like that, now we use
those tools to change the world.
I just met with a senator orsomething that was here the
other day podcast studio andit's like comes from nothing,

(36:53):
right, running for Congress, ifI remember right, you know, and
then he like he wants to changethe frustrations he had growing
up in welfare, in a badneighborhood.
It's like, and he's asuccessful guy, you know, like
extremely successful.
Now it's like that's what weneed happening.
That's what this is aboutreally, you know.
It's like is people you know,and then like it helps.
You know, you just gavesomebody out there right now I

(37:14):
can do it.
You just gave somebody outthere right now like I didn't
take no for an answer.
Yeah, you know, you just gavesomebody out there.
It took me a little while torealize I could have it you know
and then, like you, just gavesomebody all that.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, well, you know something that I'm hearing.
It is like representationmatters.
Yeah.
You know, and having a model tofollow.
Yes really matters, and so youknow, going back to what would I
recommend to underdogs is likelook for somebody who is
Similarly doing something thatyou want to do.
Thank, you and just follow.
Follow what they're doing, likeyou may not have direct access

(37:49):
to them, but just read whatthey're putting out.
Listening to that, you knowlike be a student of the game.
And I think from that you'regonna learn so much, as opposed
to somebody just giving somephallonies information.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
I mean social media.
Let's be honest here.
It's like if we're to admirewhat mainstream media tells us
to admire for entrepreneurs,we're gonna look at a Mark
Zuckerberg, a Bill Gates.
You know, like, like.
Those guys don't have any lookinto their lives.
Nothing in common with TylerZero.
You know the color of our skinand our gender.
That's it other than that Iwasn't given the choice of

(38:23):
harbors or McDonald's, my momdidn't work, or my dad didn't
work for one of the mostprestigious law firms in Seattle
and my mom on the board ofdirectors for this computer
business that got me earlyaccess to computers, you know,
it's like we didn't have thatright.
Yeah, and so to your point.
It's like and the other thingthat's Hard, and something like
I advocate for these days, islike how hard it is it to tell

(38:44):
these stories, how hard is it tocome on this camera.
It is for me, you know, butlike, if we're not doing it,
guess what?
There's somebody out there thatlike looks at you and they say
she did it, I can do it.
That's right.
There's somebody out there kindof like me that looks at Tyler
and says he did it, I can do ityou know, and so the other thing
, like another message for today, is if you're out there and
you've done it, don't be afraidto share it.

(39:05):
Yeah it's not boasting, youknow, it's helping somebody else
along the way.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think about thepeople who have greatly impacted
me, impacted me or it greatlyinfluenced me, and what if they
didn't have the courage?
Or what if they didn't have theboldness?
Yeah but in the same way,there's somebody on the other
side of the camera that they'regonna be saying the same thing
about you.
Yeah.
They needed you as that model,they needed you as that
representation, and so that'swhy I look at it like, yes,
we're doing it.

(39:31):
You know, it's self ambition atfirst, but then it becomes.
You know, how can I be acontribution to the world, how
can I help serve somebody else?
And so you don't understandthat, as you begin to move, and
that confidence and thatboldness and just belief about
what it is that's been placedwithin you, you're gonna inspire
somebody else just by followingyour dream.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I mean, I think that's where joy is found.
I mean, I don't know about yourchildhood, but I was told a lot
like you'd never amount tonothing.
You know, like your dad was inprison, you're gonna end up
there too.
It's like not really givingmuch of a fair shake, and then I
played into that for a while.
I believed that, I believed Iwas stupid on all these things,
and then I turned a corner onthat.

(40:11):
Wow, that's a huge issue and Ididn't listen to it anymore.
And I think that's where weneed to grow and learn.
And then you know that's whereyou find joy is when you grow
and learn and you accomplish,and then you realize that, like,
giving it back is the greatestpart of it.
So I get asked to go speak tothis group of, like first

(40:33):
generation from a rough areacollege students.
They help them get involvedwith school and it's a great
group for me because it's kindof, we get each other, you know.
And so I remember one time thiskid stood up and he goes at the
end.
He's like Tyler, I don't have aquestion for you today.
I just wanna tell you something.

(40:54):
It's like I'm gonna follow youbecause I can't wait to see what
you do next.
Gives me goosebumps and it'slike every time I think I'm a
little tired, every time I thinklike there's all these things
happening to me.
I can't deal with this.
I think of that kid whoactually believes in me and
that's more powerful now thanthe people that told me I
couldn't do that.
I was proving wrong for years.
It's like I better get outthere and start a new podcast.

(41:16):
I better go out there and starta couple more businesses.
I better go out there and helpas many people as possible,
because there's that kid andpossibly one or two more that
are looking at me for that right?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, I love that, Because of what I hear is that
you have a strong Y.
It's not a superficial Y.
Oh yeah, yeah, and I think thatthat's very much a key for those
who are looking.
It's like well, why do youwanna do it?
You know who do you wanna serve, how do you wanna make that
impact?
So I think that's dope.
Tell me your Y, my Y, my Y getsit's for transformation.

(41:48):
Transformation, you know, whenI opened the salon, I didn't
understand how impactful itwould be for our community.
You know, having a professionalenvironment where we could
enhance the beauty of thosewearing it naturally.
But, yes, there was asuperficial like, just from the
outside transformation.
But what I realized is thatwhen people came into my

(42:08):
establishment, that they werechanging internally.
You know whether it was thereceptionist, whether it was the
hairstyles, whether it was theclients, it was the
conversations we're having.
It's the content that we'reallowing to be played in the
salon.
It's the conversation, it wasall of those things, and it was
a healthy environment, and sowhat I realized is that, you
know, even with the school, it'slike if we can help the stylist

(42:30):
become more whole right.
Not just from teaching you howto do the hairstyle, but how can
we help you to be more balancedand be more in harmony, to be
more healed, because we are thedirect portal to our community.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
So if we can help the stylist.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
We can help the stylist, help their community
whether they're in New York orin Atlanta.
And so that is now my why.
It's like how can we help themheal?
On the hair side, I mean, youknow, in my hair business, but
on a greater level, in mypersonal brand, it's just about
helping people to recognize whothey are, why they're here, what
they've been given to give.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Oh, it's so beautiful .
What a great example too,because it's like that's where
business and the why meet, orbusiness and change meet, or
business and passion meet.
You know everybody always like,says, like well, I work in a
first world business or whatever.
You've made a business thatseemingly is just get somebody's

(43:24):
hair fancy to more right,you're changing the world by
doing this.
You've found a why within itand a passion within it.
How could you ever quit thisnow?
Could you ever stop doing it?

Speaker 3 (43:37):
I'm just in a different capacity.
I could never stop doing whatI'm doing.
You know, it's funny because Iretired from the chair about I
don't even know seven years agoand I came back just to kind of
help out or whatever, and Irealized, yes, I enjoy doing the
hair, but more I enjoy theconnection and the conversation.
And so I didn't realize thatthat was, you know, so integral

(44:00):
to what I was doing.
And now it's like, yes, I maynot be touching hair on a
consistent basis, but I'm stilltouching the souls and the
hearts of people, just in adifferent capacity.
So, no, I could never my why Ithink is going to remain.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, I mean, even if it's just through the school or
through mentoring or whatever,are you ever going to be able to
not touch something around this?

Speaker 3 (44:21):
No, no, I think that you know empowering people,
whether it be through teachingthem how to do a hairstyle or
teaching them how to thinkproperly about themselves so
they can do what they werecalled to do, or it's just who I
am.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, no, that's absolutely beautiful and that's
how you find, like I tell peopleall the time.
It's like you start a business,like they say, online.
You do it through YouTube's 22business ideas for 2023.
You choose that businessbecause you think you're going
to make a lot of money.
When it doesn't happen the nextday, you quit right.
That's why business has an 80%failure rate.
You do what you and I have done, you know and you tie business

(44:57):
to some profound mission someprofound why and don't get me
wrong make money.
You have to make money.
You can't help anybody else ifyou're struggling, but you tie
it to more than just being thatmoney that you think's coming
and guess what, you get involvedwith that passion.
Yeah.
You'll die for it, basically.
Yeah.
And then, along the way, youwon't quit.
Not quitting is the key tosuccess.

(45:17):
Yeah.
And then, before you know it,the money's there too.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Yeah, I love what you said in terms of you know,
people will start something andthen they just, when it doesn't
give you the results, it doesn'tyield the results, like oh,
I'll go to something else.
And I think that that's one ofthe biggest mistakes that some
of us can make.
It's just like OK, if itdoesn't yield immediately.
It's like no, you got to workthat thing.
Yeah.
Like I think that I'm sure I hadother things that could have

(45:43):
pulled at me to do otherventures.
Or, you know, people alwayshear that multiple streams of
income so they want to have allthese things.
It's like, no, but you got topick a landing, you got to ride
that thing and you know, I'verode hair for 20 years 30 years.
And so, yeah, I think picking itand understanding.
Sometimes you don't know thewhy on the onset, but I think it

(46:03):
evolves over time and then youstart really realizing like, oh,
this is why I do it, like I'mnot doing YouTube videos to get
an audience.
I'm doing YouTube videos so Ican make impact and if you can
keep on the impact, the audiencewill come.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Oh yeah, the views will come, you know, especially
if you have the right message.
I believe my message isn't verypopular, you know.
It's like it's actually popularwith, like my age I don't know
your age, I'm not going to guessand put you on the spot, but
it's popular with my age becausethey know They've been through
it, they realize this is BS andthey're like Tyler, you have a
great message.

(46:36):
What's really tough is for theyounger kids to understand it,
because it's easier to listen to.
The guy that's going to sit inthe Ferrari and say, just by my
course, it's going to make you amillion dollars tomorrow, like
that is the guy they want tolisten to, especially from the
bad neighborhood.
They want to think that'spossible, you know.
And when some weird, spitelyhomeless guy that usually his
shoes are falling apart tellsyou hey, no, you've got to work
really, really hard More thanmost people because you come

(46:59):
from nothing, you know it's likeand then the end it'll pay off,
trust me.
You know, work the 100-hourweeks.
If you're in a job right now,work two jobs, you know, go to
school at the same time becausethis is all preparing you for
your business.
That is not a popular messageto hear.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, I mean, you got to sacrifice to get it.
You know, and I definitely hadsacrifices on the way, but I was
willing to do it because Iloved what I did.
Yeah, you know.
So it didn't matter if you knowI had to sacrifice because I
loved it.
And so, yeah, I think whathappens is when people take that
information of the get richquick, you know, and they go in

(47:33):
circles for cycles, for seasons,and they realize like, oh, okay
, I need to go back to master onthe basics.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
The shortcut is the hard work.
You know, I told this story onetime about like 16 years old,
right, and like you know, youneed to get your teeth into
weight lifting a little bit andlike that was like way before,
like nutrition's done what it'sdone, and protein powder used to
arrive in this like ghetto box,right, just cardboard box in a

(48:00):
bag and it smelled so bad.
Like you like put the proteinpowder in and you had to plug
your nose to drink it and Iswear that stuff worked better
than any protein that existstoday.
Like that stuff was amazing,you know.
And so, like I don't know, Ithink about that all the time.
That was a painful thing todrink but it worked good.
It's like every time I've triedto take the shortcut Come on.
It's been the longer cut right,taking the painful road, it

(48:21):
worked the best.
That was actually the shortcut.
You know it's like it's justfronting.
You know, get in the gymtomorrow.
You know, lift weights.
There's no.
You know there's no supersupplement.
There is no magic pill.
You gotta get in there.
You know it's like starting yourbusiness Guess what.
You're not gonna get a paycheckfor a while, probably.
You know, especially if you'restarting from nothing, you're
gonna have to work a hard, lotof hours.

(48:42):
People are gonna scream at youand yell at you.
Their first employee is gonnabe a nightmare.
You know all these things, butyou stay the course and you keep
working it.
You make it.
Yeah, yeah.
What do you tell people that areasking you about?
Like I wanna get into the salonbusiness.
You've been successful in it,you know it's like how do you
describe to them the journeythey're about to go on?
And also like not only givethem a bit of like optimism on

(49:06):
what can it be, but a bit oflike realism, so you're setting
them up right.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Um, I mean, again, I go back to asking them like you
know, why do you really wanna dothis?
Because I think that there werepeople who jumped into it
because they seen the money andthey seen.
But it's like, again you haveto go back to are you created to
do this or something that youcan do?
It's like, is this just a funthing that you know you can make
some money?
And so, when we get to the rootof, I'm passionate about this.

(49:34):
Well then, if you have thepassion, you have the potential.
And so I really talk to themabout as long as you're
passionate about it, you havethe potential.
And not only that.
Yeah, it's going to be, it'sgoing to be a long role, but
it's not necessarily.
Life is long.
I mean, the years are going topass anyway.
Would you rather be doing it,doing something you love, or
would you rather go and dosomething that just can make you

(49:54):
some money?
And so, you know, giving themthat realism that, yeah, it's
going to take time, buteverything takes time.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Drop some balloons from the roof right now.
That is exactly it.
You know, it's like I think ofit this way, like same thing,
but it's like I never lookedback at last week and said, damn
, I wish I would watch more TV.
You know it's like, but I didlook at that degree.
I got you know and I said likeman, that hurt in the moment.
But now I look back I'm likeI'm glad I did that.

(50:22):
You know.
It's like how many things canyou look back at now that you're
like this was painful, but I'mglad I did it?

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I mean almost everything.
Yeah, you know what I mean, butI think that and then I know
this might go into another thing, but it's like you know,
discipline is the real self.
Love Like what is your futureself gonna?
Thank you for that you can dotoday.
You know what?
Are those disciplines thatthey're not?
I mean, yeah, they're hard, butI think it's perspective
because this is like okay, justtake that extra minute.

(50:49):
So funny because, like you know, sometimes I'm like I don't
feel like washing my dishes,right.
Yeah.
And I'm like but when I look atit, it took five minutes.
Yeah, this is like a lot of thethings that we dread to do,
that we don't wanna do, that.
We'd rather go and scroll onInstagram and do it.
It's just like but how did thatmake you feel?
Did you get any realgratification out of that, or
are you getting gratificationout of the small, little

(51:11):
incremental changes that you'remaking, that you're gonna feel
proud about yourself, you know,and so I think that it's like do
you really wanna see thatgrowth?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
And if you wanna see that growth and that
productivity is the discipline,what would the 16 year old, 18
year old you choose the youngera person think of?
The you of today?

Speaker 3 (51:33):
Very proud of her.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Would they believe that you're doing what you're
doing?

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Yeah, because, even though it wasn't conscious, I
wanna say that I was alreadydoing it.
I just didn't see it as if Iwas doing it, you know, and so I
don't think that she would beall that surprised.
It's like, yeah, well, you wasbringing here in the laundry.
It's just on another level andin a different way.
I mean, don't get wrong, I amdefinitely like, wow, you
changed a lot.

(51:59):
Wow, you did this while youtraveled here, you know.
But it's been a linear path,like I just been on it.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Have we hit one of the highlights of your life
through this discussion today,or do you have one that like
you'd share outside of thethings we've talked about?

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Highlights of my life .
I feel like we've hit themajority of them.
I'm sure there's some Iprobably can't think of, but as
far as what's pertinent to thisinterview, I definitely feel
that we've hit them yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
One of the things that I love about being an
entrepreneur is after andthere's a lot of bad, you know,
let's just face it, there's alot of bad things too, but one
of the things that's great islike once you've like started
out in a kitchen, braiding hair,fighting law, opening a
successful company, opening abeauty school, it's like how

(52:51):
much of the world seemsunachievable to you now.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
I feel like nothing is impossible, like literally
nothing.
It's just about how bad do youwant it and are you willing to
do the work?

Speaker 1 (53:02):
That's what.
I absolutely love about beingan entrepreneur.
It's like there is not a thingin this world I don't think I
can accomplish anymore, andwe've learned that through just
asking questions, just doing thework.
It's like I wish we could putour brains into the kids behind
the camera for one second andjust be like trust me, you can
have anything.
I mean, this year we openedexcuse me, we're going to film

(53:25):
festivals with our docuseries.
Oh, wow, we have a top 5%podcast now, like this one just
launched, we've opened sixcompanies.
It's like nothing scares me.
I mean, I ran into aconversation a couple of months
ago, six months ago.
I just wanted to ask about whatwas going on with this foster
care group, just to have aconversation, right, and that

(53:45):
led to somehow Tyler's going topresent an idea on how to help
foster youth in our buildinghere, which we've done and now,
like it got latched onto so wellthat now we're starting a hub
for age out foster youth here.
Wow, let's go Like don't get mewrong like it's a cause that I'm
passionate about.
I didn't know that it was goingto get to it right now, but

(54:05):
right now is the time.
You know, like, especially fora cause, right Like that it
doesn't scare me one bit, I'mjust excited.
Like I know how we we can putthis together.
A little bit of work, some helpfrom people.
You know, it's like we can dothis and we can change a lot of
lives through it, and that'swhat entrepreneurship does, no
matter what that thing is.
You know, you can do it now.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah, and I think the one thing that I've learned in
every part of my journey is thatyou know when there was a new
mountain I had to climb.
Like you figure it out alongthe way.
You do.
You're not going to knoweverything at once, you know.
And so now it's like okay.
Now that I have that tool and Iunderstand that principle, it's
like okay, well, we'll just tryit.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Like what's the worst that can happen, it'll at least
show us the new path.
Maybe it's a pivot sometimes.
Speaking of which, let's callthat path a boulder that you're
pushing up the mountain.
You know, like, let's say, forme the age out, foster hub, or
some of our businesses and stuff, how do you find the right
people to help you push thatboulder?

Speaker 3 (55:00):
How do you find the right people?
I mean, for me, I think that itreally has to do is like do we
align with values?
Do we align with vision?
Do we see the same thing?
Do we?
Can we even be vulnerable andtransparent over one another?
Because I think that that'swhat partnership is when you're
working with anybody, but interms of finding them, to be
honest with you I know you don'tlike the law of attraction, but

(55:21):
honestly, I feel like they didas you're doing your work, the
people who are on that path,you'll, naturally, they'll
gravitate to you somehow oranother, Like I've, honestly,
never went.
I didn't look for Adelaide, Ididn't, you know, they just came
and they stayed and werecognize oh, we have the same
vision, we have the same values.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, that's what we're collecting here.
I feel you know and like, and Idon't believe in the law of
attraction, but it doesn't meanyou shouldn't you know?
Or you shouldn't you know?
It's just personally.
It doesn't work for me.
You know, it's like I guess,let me.
I guess I don't want todemotivate people, but I don't
believe in the law of attractionbecause I don't believe I've.
I don't think I've brought thebad stuff into my life, so
that's why I can't believe it'sgonna bring good stuff into my

(56:00):
life.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
I see what you're saying.
So then, how do you find them?

Speaker 1 (56:03):
How do I find these people?
Yes, I believe it's showing upevery day.
I don't talk much about myreligion although I'm a very
religious guy, you know becauseI believe that every day I
should go out there andrepresent it.
So I don't even have to say,speak it.
And I think by going out thereand representing you yourself in
a way that you're a billboardfor what you believe, I believe,

(56:25):
you bring those people aroundand you could call it attraction
you could define it that wayyeah that's what.
I'm saying but I mean, I guess,like, I feel like I'm putting
out a billboard and people arelooking at it and saying you be
it, you be it.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
I think that you know .
You know, even in business youdon't realize you're setting
yourself up to lead.
But I feel like leading ismaking the right decisions for
yourself first.
And in making those rightdecisions for yourself, what
happens is people start to seeyou making traction and from
that traction they're like Iwant to get on that train.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And you attract those leadersbecause of the traction that

(56:56):
you're making, but it's allbased on you holding a higher
standard for yourself and makingthe right decisions every day.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
I think one problem too, and I've found some
interesting parts through myjourney.
You know, as far as like thepeople that have come in and out
of my life, you know, and soit's like, one thing that I
would say to everybody is likeyou definitely need to surround
yourself with the right people.
Hanging out with Joey the noseis not going to do anybody any
good.
You know, think of your life.
Like in companies, we go outand we seek the best board
members possible in differentareas to advise us right as the

(57:25):
heads of companies.
So, like, think about that inyour life.
Like if you're destined forsomething, immerse yourself with
that group or motivated people,and not only that, but don't
get jealous.
If they get ahead, help them.
Don't get jealous or feelobligated.
Like if they're a little bitbehind or whatever, help them.
You know it's like make thatconnection that you heard.
You know you have a friendlooking for a job or something.

(57:46):
You know somebody that'soffering a job.
Make that connection.
The stronger your group gets,the stronger you get.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yes, so true.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
And I don't know why we don't think about that enough
.
It's like don't get jealousbecause that person's getting
ahead of you.
Help everybody you can, becausenow they're part of your
network, their team.
You know like, think of it as asports team.
You know it's like the betteryou can make your teammates on
that team, the better yourchances are for winning.
Think about your network thatway.
Connect the people, inspirethem to get in the gym.
You know like, sorry, the gym'sa big thing for me because I

(58:14):
think it's important, you know.
But but do that stuff in life,you know, and because then
you'll build your network whileyou're building yourself.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Yeah, I mean, that's a valuable principle.
I think that society andculture has taught us to think
so individualistic that it's allabout me and therefore it's you
know, it's so self-focused thatwe don't see the power of
partners, we don't see the powerof communities.
That is so, so valuable and Ihonestly had to learn that, like

(58:44):
I don't think I understood thatit was just like, oh, okay, I
started this company, you know,and then I realized, like okay,
I have a salon with four chairs,but it's just me.
Yeah.
Okay, well now, how do I, youknow, attract stylist?
You know, how do I hire?
And I didn't know how to hireand recruit.
I'm so knee-deep in doing hairthat I'm like I don't know how
to do that.
And then I realized like, oh, Iknow the technical side, I know

(59:05):
hair, but I don't completelyknow business and I truly don't
understand leadership.
Like I have a standard formyself, but I had understood, I
later found out that I had togrow in leadership you know I
had to teach myself leadership,like I had to learn certain
books, understand certainprinciples and realize like, oh,
I've already been that, but Ihaven't necessarily been
intentional in that and I'mimmature in that, and so, yeah,

(59:29):
I just feel like the team, thecircle, all that stuff comes.
But you have to have a standardfor yourself first.
I mean, I think that you becomeit first and then you get
around people that are on thatsame path.
It's like you know those peoplewho are committed to their own
personal development.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
And why should they involve youin your network if you're not
worth involving?
Right, be a person worthinvolving in that network and to
be a leader.
I believe 100% in leading myexample.
If you won't do it, then whyshould they do it?
Right?
If you're too afraid to cleanthe bathroom, then why should
they clean the bathroom?

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Come on.
And that even speaks tomentorship too.
It's like be mentorable.
Yeah, absolutely Put yourselfin a position to where it's like
oh, I can see that my time isnot gonna be wasted by pouring
into you because, you'reliterally, you got a notebook,
you're taking notes, you'recoming back and you've actually
done these things.
You've held yourselfaccountable.
So, even when it comes tocreating a circle or getting in

(01:00:24):
the right circle of people, it'sjust like put yourself in
position for that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
One of the hardest parts about what I do these days
because you know I do tons ofpro bono consulting Most of my
life is that these days.
You've done that for me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I've helped you a little bit and it's like one of
the hardest things is noteverybody wants they like your
advice until it's not what theywanted to hear.
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
You better say that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
They like your advice until it's not what they wanna
hear, because I almost alwayshave to tell them something they
don't wanna hear.
If I'm fixing a business,especially that's failing, I've
gotta tell them somethingthey're not wanting to hear.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
But what's so wild is you came to me and or you,
because you are the expert andyou've been somewhere that I
have not been yet.
You're somebody who I'm lookingup to.
So if somebody gives you someinformation that is hard for you
to accept or hard for you to goahead and implement, like you
have to remind yourself, they'vebeen there and they've done
that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Yeah, I think that's the difference between doing it
for free too, and then likepeople that charge for it,
because people that charge forit are just gonna find you an
answer that you're gonna pay for, people that just have your
whole hearted like, want yoursuccess, are gonna have to tell
you that.
That's the hard thing for me.
I don't like to tell peoplelike these hard, hard things.
That's hard and they get mad atme about it a lot of times, you

(01:01:35):
know, but it's like I'm theonly one that actually cares.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Yeah, I mean hard stuff, because I'm trying to
grow right.
But you know what?
What do you think about thisconcept where it talks about
when you pay you pay attention,when you invest you know what
I'm saying?
Like you're invested, yeah, sowhen it comes to like giving
things away for free, sometimespeople don't value it as such.
It's like you know, there's ascripture that says don't cast
your pearls to swine Like theydon't value pearls, like they

(01:02:00):
don't see the value in it, andso what are your thoughts about
that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
It's the struggle of my life, or what's the catch?
What's the catch, Tyler, inthis?
Where is it coming?
You know, like we had that 100person event in person the other
day.
This guy stuck around till thevery end, you know.
He asked me in the intro and,like a bunch of other times,
he's like what's the catch?
And like there is no catch here, you know.
And so, yeah, that's thehardest part is like you're
right, they don't need it to bevaluable.

(01:02:23):
And I've been fired fromhelping people for free.
For free, Because I've beenlike I'm telling them the hard
truth I'm caring more about whenyou involve me.
It's the type of person I amLike I'm gonna care as much
about your business as you are,if not more because I don't
wanna fail and I don't want youto fail and you've told me all
these family struggles you'rehaving and you know, like I'm
giving you stuff that is so hardfor me to give you this hard

(01:02:45):
message, this hard helping hand,like that's not in my
personality to do, you know, butI'm actually caring about you
more than anybody else has bydoing it.
And.
But it's tough, to your point.
Not a lot of people willappreciate it, you know, and
that is hard because I do set myheart and soul on it, you know,
and that's why I've had to like.
It's an evolution, even helping, giving charity, is an

(01:03:06):
evolution.
You know, it started out byhelping friends.
You know, and then I felt takenadvantage of a lot and so I'm
like I'll help strangers,they'll appreciate it more.
And they did to a time, youknow.
But then and then I used to goin and literally physically do
accounting with them andphysically do marketing and like
posting and like literallyphysically work in the business
with them for free, Trying tohelp them.
And then I've gotten to thepoint it's like now I give

(01:03:27):
advice, right, and I'll help youthrough it.
I'll show you whatever you want.
There's a space for people tocome in any single time they
wanna work on their own stuff.
You know, and that's where I'vehad to kind of draw the line on
things.
You know, it's like I'll haveconversation with you that'll
save you five years and 20, orexcuse me and hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
I will have that conversationwith you.
You know, take it or leave it,and I will help you anytime you

(01:03:49):
ask me a question.
But I can't do it for youanymore Because you're right,
when there's no perceived valueto it, they don't appreciate it.
So, and I think that's I meanthat's the struggle that I have
and where I'm like you know, alot of people do this stuff for
money and I can make a lot ofmoney doing it.
You know, like, let's be fair,I could make a course on how to
open a business.
I can make a course on how todo marketing.

(01:04:10):
I could make a course on how toopen a podcast.
I'm really good at all thesethings.
I changed people's lives in acouple hours with.
I can teach you accounting inthree hours.
That could be a course and Ican make it fun.
I don't know anybody else inthe planet that can do that,
even involving like complex MBAPristables and to finance and
things like that.
I can teach you all that inthree hours.
Could I monetize that?
Yeah, but I'd rather give itaway to the people that can't

(01:04:30):
afford it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
And then like it's up to them.
I guess I know I've rambled onyour question because I still
don't have an answer for it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
I mean, I think it's dope that you have that heart to
just wanna pour out.
I just, you know, I wanna seethat there are people who are
truly gonna value it andactually apply it, because
that's what it's for.
I'm not here just to be talking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Yeah, I have wins too .
It's like last episode we hadKai and E-Man, who's always
around here, working on stuffyou know and so like, and
they're winning.
they're launching their labeltoday.
You know, it's like that's awin for me too.
I love seeing that and they'reworking hard and I've saved
somebody like thousands ofdollars.
I've seen somebody cry overtheir business, that they're
losing, and then when I come inand help them and they tell them

(01:05:12):
they have hope.
You know, it's like I get a lotof wins you know Like I get to
change people's lives on thedaily here, and that's what
makes my job so amazing.
you know it's like sure we havea facility here, you know, like
where we do some business stuff.
You know it's like I never talkabout that stuff on the podcast
.
You know, if people wanna knowabout it we can talk about it.
But you know like mostly I wantpeople to know this is a

(01:05:33):
facility where you can get help.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
And it costs you nothing.
There is no catch.
I think there's no.
There's no catch, except Iexpect when you make it you'd be
a good role model for somebodyelse.
I would hope that your successyou'll bring into some situation
that you hated If you wereraised in the foster care system
and you hated the foster caresystem.
Please have your success.
I want you to have your successbecause you're gonna go back
and change things.

(01:05:56):
Yeah.
If you were Bill Gates right nowthat grew up in the foster care
system, I guarantee therewouldn't be a problem with the
foster care system.
Yeah.
Or the prison system.
Yeah.
Or like hunger or you know,like if you were the person that
came up to be billionairestatus.
And don't get me wrong, I'mgoing there, I'm gonna be
billionaire before my world'sdone and it's not cause I care
about the fancy car.

(01:06:16):
In fact, one like a quick storyI'll tell you about that is in
my first business, very firstworld business.
I was really struggling with it.
I was reading this book howHelping Hurts, and then I was
watching this documentary calledPoverty Inc and I was really in
tune with like how to Help theWorld, like what's the right way
to help the world, and the sameday, much like Scott, our

(01:06:38):
redefining hero, you know, like,had this pivotal moment.
Mine wasn't nearly as cool ashis, but you know it's like this
guy comes in he starts cryingover this project, like so first
world didn't matter.
You know, like I gave him apersonal ride home afterwards.
You know it was like we dideverything we could for him
Balling.
And like a buddy of minehappened to call me while I was
just about to walk out on mybusiness completely, I'm not a

(01:06:58):
quitter, but I was disgusted bywhat I was doing Because I was
having no real impact on theworld.
You know, and my buddy is thisoverzealous Greek guy.
He's like Tyler, you can't helpthe world by sitting on the
street corner and holding a sign.
You have to pull up to theboardroom in the Ferrari.
I don't need the Ferrari, butyou have to pull up to the
boardroom and you have to saythis is how we help the world.

(01:07:19):
And I agree with that 100%.
You have to find your successto help the world.
So, and like that's my missionand I'll do it one person at a
time.
I have no problem working inthe micro.
I will do that one person at atime.
I will do that one podcast at atime.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
So so then only cause I'm just thinking deeper it's
like so should there be avetting process then?

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
To helping people, probably Okay, yeah, and
honestly, as like we grow hereespecially, I'm sure we'll do
more and more like how to help,right.
It's, you know, just likerunning a business you pivot and
you learn.
I think, like the seminars havebeen great for us.
You know, it's like cause thatway we can help a lot of people
at once.
You know, and then like theycan take it or leave it and you
know it's like we're speaking toeverybody at once.

(01:08:02):
We have a lot of people thatcome in afterwards, you know,
and thank us.
That's amazing.
You know, like people using theboost space, it's not that big
of a deal for me to jump on theother side of the wall and help
them through a problem.
I equate a lot of this stuff tolike working on a math problem.
If you're working on a mathproblem and you have some time
to struggle with it, now you'rethinking about it Like, and when
we help you get up next to thatnext step on the math problem,

(01:08:23):
you're like, wow, okay, I get it, but you've struggled enough in
it to now get it right and like.
I think that's where like, butbanging your head on the wall
for 15 hours on it isn't goingto help you.
Yes, sure.
So somebody gets you over tothat next step, and I think
that's what we're trying to dothese days is like really help
with the next step you'restruggling with.
You know it's like we're notgoing to do it for you, but
we're going to help you so youdon't struggle on the math
problem for 15 hours, strugglefor two minutes.

(01:08:45):
Now let's pull you out of it soyou can continue.
Yeah.
Yeah so, and I'm so glad to seeyou around here all the time.
You know it's like it's amazingto always connect with you.
You have great energy, thankyou.
You're such a role model forwhat this show is about.
You know, I want to have youand your partner right Business
partner on the show, becausethere's another topic I want to

(01:09:06):
hit with you guys.
Ok, I think that the youngergeneration a lot of times looks
at I'm going to do this job and,believe me, I had a lot of
horrible jobs.
But, I decided in life, you knowlike.
I was a valet at one point at acountry club and they treated
me miserable.
By the way, that's led to mostof my success in life.
I'll say that right now thatjob has led to most of my
success in life, that valet job,because number one, the rich

(01:09:29):
and wealthy people treated mehorribly.
They called me the help, gaveme a chip on my shoulder.
You know, I was like and I sawhow normal they were, that
pillars of the community comingin to shower off their
mistresses and things like that,like not good citizens either,
and not any better than you or I, certainly.
And the other thing I did is,no matter how they treated me,

(01:09:50):
no matter what it was like to bethere, I could have said I'm
going to half-ass this job, I'mnot going to do anything more
than they want me to.
Instead, I did the opposite.
Huge parking lot, 125-degreeweather.
I'm sprinting to get your car.
No matter how mean you are to me.
I'm sprinting to get it.
Watch this, I'm the fastest guyout there.
You're going to have your carin 30 seconds.
You know, yeah, that to me wasmore of the win than like, oh,

(01:10:11):
I'm going to take my time sothis jerk doesn't get his car.
You know, I was like that hasbeen a pivotal point of my
success and so, like that'swhere I want to go with you guys
Is like having that work ethic,even in a business that you
don't own, and then look whereit's led to your now partner.
You're right.
So let's have that discussionsoon.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
I'm down, I'm going to talk to her today.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Tell a little bit about your podcast, what you're
up to.
I want to give you a chance topitch some stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
Yeah, absolutely so.
My business partner and I juststarted a podcast called the
Rare One and it speaks to beingrare individually, but we're all
one and so understanding thatwe as a collective we're even
stronger.
And so we speak to hairstylistspredominantly about the
industry, but again it's aboutmaking the whole stylist that
we're speaking from a standpointof personal development,

(01:10:59):
spiritual development, just aholistic view, and helping to
just transform that community tohelp us just have a greater
standard, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
That's amazing.
I love what you guys are doing,love being around you guys,
always great energy.
We're going to have to do thatother episode soon For sure.
Thanks so much for coming on.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
And thank you for another episode of Underdogs,
bootstrapers and Game Changers.
Please give us feedback onthese episodes.
If there's something more youwant to see, something more you
want to know, connect with myfriend here.
We're glad to help you alongthe way.
Thanks for tuning in.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Braiding Paths to Success: Essence China's Journey from Underdog to Empire Builder

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

All Episodes

Braiding Paths to Success: Essence China's Journey from Underdog to Empire Builder

On Purpose with Jay Shetty