Crafting the Ultimate Business Persona with James L. Bond

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Have you ever wondered what it's like to go from a technical expert to a sales sensation? Meet James L. Bond, the behavioral management guru and advertising maestro who joins us to unravel his transformative journey. He turns the sales game on its head, showing us that with the right mix of passion and a consultative approach, even the underdog can become a top dog in the business world. Through his personal narrative, James illustrates the power of asking the right questions - five to be precise - to deeply understand client needs and outshine the competition.

Our discussion takes an emotional turn as I share a personal story about how a single, heartfelt question influenced a major business deal with Avon Canada. We then venture into the realm of John Gray's 'Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus' to decode the 14 brain triggers that make emotional selling so powerful. It's an eye-opening exploration that might just change your approach to sales forever. These insights are complemented by astonishing success stories, including the Squatty Potty and 'Mommy Needs Vodka,' which perfectly capture the essence of how creativity in branding and naming can propel a business to stardom.

Finally, we get down to the nitty-gritty of what makes a business name stick. Drawing from examples like LookGreatNaked.com and the 'fire extinguisher' rebrand of a construction company, we highlight the magnetic pull of a good name. These tales are not just inspirational; they pack a punch of practical advice for anyone looking to carve out a niche in the crowded marketplace. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a dreamer, or someone with a burning desire to make your mark, this episode is jam-packed with strategies, stories, and sparks of genius to fuel your journey to success. So, buckle up and prepare to be inspired - because this is not just about business, it's about igniting that fire of desire within you.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Underdogs, bootstrapers and Game
Changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standardsthis is the real side of
business.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(00:24):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our content forgood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.
All right, everybody, andwelcome to another episode of

(00:47):
Underdogs, bootstrapers and GameChangers.
What's funny is I always haveto double check the order of
that Number five and, as usual,I've been out there in the world
looking for amazing people totalk to so you can get some
value as an underdog, abootstrap or a game changer and
then proceed on your journey.
I've got a great guest todayJames Bond James L Bond and I'm

(01:09):
sure he's heard that one before,and he's got a wonderful book
called Brain Glue Also was inbehavioral management for a long
time, works with the SBA, andthen he was his own advertising
company for a long time.
We've already had a slightchance about to talk about sales
and I couldn't agree more withwhat he had to say.
I am so happy to have you here.

(01:29):
He's got a couple stories totell today that I was like man.
I got to hear these stories soI figured you should too.
Welcome, james.
Thanks for being on here.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh, Tyler, thank you for having me.
You rock and I'm just sodelighted.
Underdogs, Bootstrapers, GameChangers are you kidding?
We need to inspire you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Absolutely yeah.
I mean, I came to this likekind of hippie hypothesis that
if we can get more underdogsinto success, then they're the
ones that help change the world.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Absolutely.
You know like let's dive rightinto it.
You know like, tell me yourfavorite underdog success story.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, it still comes to.
I was in business with mybrother.
I actually started an ad agencyin Montreal.
I live in Southern California.
I lived here for 37 years.
The reason I know that is and Iremember that is because we
have a son and three daughtersand we named our middle daughter
.
We gave her the initials LA.
So we always go like how wasLauren?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Okay, that's the one.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
We've been in Southern California.
We liked Steeley Dan, by theway, so we named her Asia AJA,
which is Steeley Dan song andalbum.
And two years ago she wastalking to me and she said I
love the name Asia, everybodyloves it.
Why do you name me Asia?
And I said, well, because ofSteeley Dan.
She listened to it and said, oh, I don't like that.

(02:46):
I was like sorry, there'sparents, you know, but she
eventually started working onher, you know she loved it.
I said, no, but we picked itbecause it's creative.
They're so creative and we lovecreativity, so that's why we
gave you this name.
Yeah, she really appreciated it.
No, kidding.
When I started an ad agency andI was in business with my

(03:06):
brother for a period of time andit was really I love my brother
dearly, my middle brother, John.
But family and business doesn'talways mix.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
And it pissed me off that he could sell me better
than I could sell me.
I hated selling.
I'm a technical guy, okay.
I mean I knew advertising andstuff, but I didn't know selling
, which is interesting.
I learned that how can you notlove selling if you're an
advertiser?
Because advertising is selling,but you know not.
You know positively.
I would have talked about thisbefore, but Zig Ziglar changed

(03:37):
my life because I had to learnhow to sell.
I'm like, okay, I'm going tolearn how to sell and all that
stuff.
I was taking sales courses butI was in workshops by Zig Ziglar
.
He was fabulous and he saidsomething that changed my life
and he said selling is just atransference of passion.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
I couldn't have heard that.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
It was like oh, he said nobody has to teach you how
to sell.
I mean, we're too old in theirways to help you and overcome to
get somebody to open up to you.
So at least you know what'sgoing on.
Sure, but it just becameprofound for me.
So two things happened.
That was the first thing was Istarted to realize I'm
passionate.
I'm a passionate person, so iftransference of passion, if I'm
working with a company or aclient that has really cool

(04:18):
products, if I'm passionateabout it, then it's easy for me
to build selling.
Okay, yeah, I also learned.
I had an opportunity.
So I worked my way up and wewon major clients like Kraft
Foods, timex, watches, avon,cosmetics, seagrams or World
Headquarters is there and it wasreally cool.

(04:40):
And but a couple of thingshappened.
The first one was I learnedthat I hated selling initially,
and my younger brother sat downwith me and went through this
and he said well, once you getthem as a client, what are some
of the questions you would askthem?
And I came up with these fivequestions what do you sell To
who?
How is it used?
What are you competing with andwhy yours?

(05:02):
Why should somebody chooseyours instead of the
alternatives and it changed mylife.
The reason it changed my lifeis I thought of myself as like a
car salesman.
I mean, I love car salesmen,but you know.
But I felt like, oh yeah, I'mjust, I got to learn how to sell
on persuading and all thatstuff.
No, by asking the questions upfront, I became like a doctor.

(05:23):
You know, saying let's figureout what's going on with what
you have and then, once we dothat, I'll tell you and honestly
tell you if I can or can't helpyou.
I think I'm gonna help you.
Sure, it changed profoundly.
I have this trick.
Okay, not a trick, but aquestion is really powerful.
I call it past, present, futureand it works this way.
It works with advertising, buttons of people use it with other

(05:44):
industries.
Okay, so when I would meet witha client, I would say have you
ever worked with an advertisingagency before?
And whether they say yes or no,they might say, no, we do all
the advertising ourselves.
Okay, that's fine.
What works for you, what'sworked for you and what hasn't
worked for you?
And they start explaining stuff.
You know, well, we do this andthis, but we're not sure about
all the channels or whateverelse.

(06:05):
They would say, okay.
Then we say, okay, are youusing one now?
Are you working with an adagency now or are you doing it
on your own?
You said, well, they're doingit on my own or I'm using an ad
agency.
Well, what's working for youand what's not working for you?
Yeah, and then we go into thefuture like what would be the
ideal situation for you and bydoing that it opened up.
It helped me understand whatthey were.

(06:26):
You know what that wasimportant for them, and I
suddenly become like a you know,like a doctor, saying, well, oh
, that's interesting, I think wehave something that could
really help you with that.
Blah, blah, blah.
And it became more fun becausenow I got, I always felt like I
was on the spot.
Okay, I'm with a prospect, Igot to show them all my work and
everything else and hopefullysomething will resonate.
How I won.

(06:48):
Seagrams is a good example.
Okay, because Seagrams is oneof the first companies I started
applying these questions on andthey the buyer from Seagrams is
telling me so we spend like50,000 to 100,000 dollars easily
on the bottles and the labelsthat we have because, you know,
if we have an old bottle, wewant to make it look old, but we

(07:09):
also want to make it, like youknow, interesting enough that
somebody's going to buy theproduct, and so the glass, the
shape of the bottle andeverything else is really
important.
Well, in the olden days I wouldhave said gone through all my
samples of my portfolio andhopefully something would stick.
You know, instead I went, oh,and I had done, I remember, two
catalogs for a lamp manufacturer.

(07:30):
They had all kinds of plasticand glass lamps and things like
really cool stuff.
But you have to know how towork with glass and plastic
because it's it's tricky.
You got to show texture andsometimes you know if it's
translucent.
You got to show that and so Ijust pulled out a sample from
what we did.
I said, well, this wasimportant to us, like I wanted
to make sure it is.
The texture of it and thetranslucence of it showed

(07:52):
through and everything else.
He said, oh, we got to workwith you guys.
You guys know what you're doing.
In the past I would have shown,I would have shown like 20
samples or more.
Here I showed one sample and wewon Seagrams.
Yeah, because I connected withhim and it was fun, because I
shared his passion, I went like,yeah, I love like glass and
plastic.
Is you know who started showingme some of the bottles they

(08:12):
have?
And it was like, yeah, well,yeah, he saw my passion for what
was important for him also.
Once I learned stuff like that,it just changed my life, you
know.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
You have so many good points that you just ran across
right now I want to make sureeverybody caught them.
You know, number one it's likewe're in business, right, as
small business people.
Why would we choose anythingelse than a product of passion?
Right, you can have passion forsomething and make money off of
it.
I'm like you.
I can find passion in thingslike glass bottles.
You know, we did a lot of likemanufacturing and stuff over the

(08:45):
years.
I could find passion in thesethings.
And then when you, when youagree on that and you ask the
right questions, you become aconsultant.
Right, you don't become asalesman anymore.
And I'm with you on the carindustry.
The car industry is actually anamazing way to learn sales and
there is some amazinggood-hearted sales people out
there too, you know, I know wegive the car salesman the label,
but there's no harder sales inmy mind than the car business,

(09:08):
and it's great way to actuallylearn it.
And you could be a diamond inthe rough if you're carrying
compassion and you get to allthe questions that you know
you're talking about what is thebest.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Car sales people don't just sell a car but hook
the person that they want tocome back every time and they
want to refer other people toyou because you're so easy to
work with and that's why youknow.
So god, I saw a car really fast.
That's a crappy sales person.
You know.
You might sell a car here andthere or whatever, maybe sell a
bunch of cars, but nobody'sgoing to come back.
What you want is you want tocreate a relationship, so they

(09:38):
go.
Oh, you love.
You understand what's importantto us and yeah, we definitely.
You know, hey, joe, you want tobuy a car.
You got to buy it from the guythat we work with.
He is so incredible, or she isso incredible, and I think when
you understand that, it's aboutrelationship building for most,
businesses.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Oh, thank you so much for saying that too.
It's like, I mean, here's thething.
It's like you did a good jobwith Seagrams and they became
your client, you know.
And not only that, but theycame back because they're happy,
right.
And now you get to say, well,seagrams is one of our clients,
now that's a value add for yournext client too.
You know, it's like, if youtreat it right, it's a
perpetuating system of like hey,you know, I'm the good car

(10:16):
salesman I knew don't even haveto go out of their desk anymore.
They have so many people comingtheir way because they've
treated them so well over theyears that they don't even have
to move.
You know, they just sit there,have a conversation with that
now who's become a buddy oftheirs and, you know, make a
little bit of money.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And so life is, you know.
You know, I think school sortof turns us off to a lot of
things that we want to do.
I mean, school is good, butthat's fine, okay, but it's just
.
You know, it's like the firstthing they tell us to do is, hey
, stop talking.
Okay, in life we want to beinteracting.
What do you mean?
Stop talking?
Hey, you know, don't look over,you know, don't talk to each

(10:52):
other.
Figure out the answer yourself.
And it's life is aboutinteraction.
I mean, I love to say, becauseI'm, you know, consider one of
America's League of BehavioralManagement Specialists, which is
kind of cool yeah, oh,absolutely you know what's the
most powerful tool of humaninteraction that exists?
I'm using it now, aren't I?
What am I doing?
I'm asking questions.

(11:12):
Questions are really powerfulbecause when we hear a question,
our brain, it, there's atrigger that wants us to answer
it, doesn't it?
Yeah, and so when we hear aquestion, you know there's
something that's called simplereflexive questions, isn't it?
Doesn't it shouldn't it?
Don't you agree our simplereflexive questions, aren't they

(11:33):
okay?
So if I say I was talking to afriend and you put these on the
end of your statement, okay, soI was talking to a friend and I
said, man, what a really niceday it is.
And he said, yeah, I guess.
I said, well, what's wrong?
No, nothing, nothing, look,come on, come on, what's going
on?
I just I hadn't heard enough ofmy wife and I'm just like I

(11:53):
said what, what?
And I got to talk to himbecause I had the simple
reflexive questions.
When I learned the power ofthis, like adding this to the
end of my statements, I actuallystarted getting better
relationships with my kids.
You know, I was talking to my,our middle daughter, la, and I
was talking to her and she goeslike, yeah, okay, so what's
wrong?
So well, you always I'm aconsultant, I've been a

(12:15):
consultant for a lot of my life,okay.
And so she says you always aregiving me advice and you're
never just listening.
And it's scared the hell out ofme.
It's like maybe you realize,like, oh wow, I'm just a
behavioral management specialist.
You know I'm supposed to be.
You know she says yeah, you'rejust, you know, whenever you
talk to me, you know, if I starttelling you something that's
going on, you stop me and yousay well, I think you should do

(12:37):
this and this and this.
You're basically saying you'restupid and daddy smart, so you
need to listen to daddy.
You know, instead of realizing,I know how to solve problems,
dad.
I mean, do you understand that?
And she was right on.
But I, because I had the powerof simple, reflexive questions,
I was able to hear the change inthe tone of her voice and I
went like hey, how are you doingWell, okay, so what was wrong?

(13:00):
No, no, nothing.
You know what?
What you all and she startedtelling me about our
relationship.
And it's so powerful, and it'sthis whole issue.
That's why I wrote the bookBrain Glue, because it helped me
understand brain triggers.
You know, this is not aboutmanipulation.
This is about understandingwhat things resonate with people
.
Sure, and it's just, it's sopowerful.

(13:21):
I was in business with mybrother and we went into Avon
cosmetics, okay, of Canada, andwe're sitting with the buyer and
the buyer said to me and John,my brother, he said hey, john,
it's between you and this othercompany, this big contract we
had we were trying to get, andit's between you and this other
company and, frankly, I'd ratherwork with you guys, but your

(13:42):
price is higher than the otherguy.
So there's a long pause and mybrother leans across the desk
and says why do you think theother guy is so cheap?
There's a long pause and then,like, spit it out of the text.
But the guy goes okay, fine,I'll write you up a purchase
order right now.
And my head was gonna explode.
What the hell?
We didn't have to lower ourprice.
We didn't know he's hiring usbecause our price is higher.

(14:03):
Whoa, and it started making merealize.
That was the trigger thathelped me start to understand
that there's a lot aboutemotional selling that we don't
understand.
I had the opportunity to win theanti-drug campaign in America.
I mean, I worked with majorcompanies and one guy knows
another guy and whatever else,and so we had an opportunity to
win the anti-drug campaign inAmerica with powerful logical

(14:26):
reasons why you should not dodrugs right.
And then I saw what beat us andit freaked me out because A it
was a gazillion times morepowerful than what we knew how
to do what.
I knew how to do what our adwas and also scared me because
it used emotional selling, notlogic, and it was a guy holding
an egg saying this is your brainand cracking the shell and

(14:47):
dropping the egg into a sizzlingfrying pan.
Yeah, was your brain on drugs,any questions?
This is emotional selling.
I had no idea how to doemotional selling and it freaked
me out.
I mean, it's just like you know, how can I be in business and
not know how to do emotionalselling?
Because it's when you learnemotional selling, sales explode

(15:08):
.
And so, you know, I createdthis thing called a passion box,
right, and I put it next to mycomputer and I said I wrote your
brain on drugs on a three byfive card.
So I remember it and I put itin a box and I said you know,
they don't teach you stuff inschool and I need to learn this.
I wanna learn this because I'mpassionate about, you know,

(15:29):
making a difference.
I mean, if you wanna make adifference, not just make sales,
but you wanna make a difference, you wanna be able to touch the
emotional centers of the brain.
And I'm a logical person, asmost people are, and so I wanted
to figure out how does theemotion work?
And so about 10 years later, Imet, I moved to Southern
California, we moved to SouthernCalifornia and I met John Gray.
And John Gray wrote the bookMen, women and Relationship,

(15:52):
which was one of the mostincredible relationship books
ever.
But it only sold a few thousandcopies and he was struggling,
and so he got frustrated and hechanged the name.
He decided to change the nameto Men are from Mars, women are
from Venus, and then he tweakedthe content just a little so it
was consistent with the title.
So it would refer to itthroughout the book, but it's
the same basic book.

(16:13):
And guess what happened?
His sales exploded overnight.
Half a million people boughthis book, then a million and
five million.
In my book I say 10 millionpeople bought his book and I
know Steve Harrison who helpedhim with marketing and Steve
said now you're wrong.
And I thought like ooh, was Itoo high?
He said no, no, he's sold over50 million books already.
All because he changed the name, the title, and it just blew my

(16:38):
mind is when I got.
So I'm writing a Men are fromMars on a three by five card and
I was gonna put it in my boxand I said wait a second, this
is a metaphor.
You know, men aren't reallyfrom Mars, okay, I mean some
people, I think we are, but it'sjust.
It made me realize wait asecond is metaphors, the secret

(16:59):
to emotional selling.
When this is your brain ondrugs is a metaphor, because
it's not a brain, it's an egg,okay, and you know so.
A shark tank it's not a tankfull of sharks.
You show up and you know youhave to swim through all these.
No, it feels like you're on ashark you know shark tank, but
it's not.
It's not and it's called.
I feel it was called somethingelse in Canada.

(17:19):
That's where it started,originally something invested in
it oh dragons or somethingright.
Yeah, but shark tank is muchmore powerful because it's a
metaphor.
But when I dump the passion boxon my bed to see if that's if
metaphors is the only thing, andI realized that metaphors is
one of 14 brain triggers at theheart of emotional selling.

(17:40):
And when we use a brain trigger, sales explode.
And I'll give you a fewexamples.
So there's a mom in Utah andher son who have no business
experience, but she inventedthis product, which I'll explain
in a second, and sales explodedto over $100 million in less

(18:00):
than two years.
And they have no businessexperience.
All of us guys, you havebusiness experience.
You don't know this.
You have a disadvantage.
They have no businessexperience and they've made $100
million.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
That's pretty good, you're safe.
No kidding, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
A woman, a stay at home mom.
A lot of people spend money onsocial media advertising, right,
how about this one?
She spent zero on social mediaadvertising.
She's a stay at home mom andshe created a Facebook page and
it has more than five millionfans and she spent nothing.
In fact, I'll tell you how thatworked, okay?

(18:34):
Or this guy who had no moneyand he borrowed some money from
his dad to start a business, buthe figured out this one word,
one word that was so powerfulthat he became a billionaire
okay, a billionaire, I'm tellingyou.
I gotta tell you.
These stories are great, butit's just because everybody
understand, like, if you have anidea, so let me give you the

(18:56):
Utah mom and her son okay, she'ssitting in the bathroom on the
toilet.
Okay, and it's a great place tolearn.
Come up with ideas.
Like she's sitting in thebathroom on the toilet and she
realizes you gotta raise yourfeet like about six inches off
the ground to get the rightshape of your body.
I don't wanna get too much intothat, but apparently if you
have the right shape of yourbody by raising your feet a

(19:17):
little bit, it's easier to go tothe bathroom.
You're lovely.
So she was gonna call theproduct the toilet stool.
You think she would sell a lotif it was called toilet stool.
They knew, no, that's not agood name for toilet stool.
My wife says she should havecalled it the stool stool.
I don't think that would haveworked either.
But they were thinking about itand they said, well, so what are

(19:38):
some other names for toilet?
And they started looking forsimiles or other names for a
product that you have.
She went through and she saidoh, potty.
Okay, it's a potty.
So what are we doing?
We're squatting.
She started thinking well, whatare we squatting?
What do I call it?
The squatty potty?
The name squatty potty made itexplode.
People went like they finallyeven got on a shark tank and the

(20:01):
investor stood in line toinvest with her because the name
triggered with them.
They went like, hey, that's thesquatty potty, that's really
cool.
Oh, this is a stupid littlestool.
I mean I shouldn't say stupid,but I mean you can take a trash
can and put your feet on it, youknow.
And yet they sold a hundredmillion, more than a hundred
million dollars worth of productbecause they came up with a

(20:22):
name that resonates, it clicksin the brain and people go
squatty potty.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Oh, that's cool.
I gotta get one of those.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, Okay, and it explains this.
So how about the mom?
Okay, here's a stay at home momand she wanted to create a
Facebook page.
And so she's thinking, okay, Iwanna attract other moms, but
everybody you know to sort ofunderstand what a mom goes
through.
So mommy needs time to herself,Mommy needs a rest.
Oh, I know what mommy needs.
Mommy needs vodka.

(20:48):
She created the page.
Mommy needs vodka.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Okay, so and how?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
did I become a fan?
It's just like other 5 millionpeople.
So I'm looking.
She has good posts, but a lotof people have good posts out
there and still don't have a lotof fans.
You know you struggle, becausehow do you get people to your
site?
Yeah, how do you get people toher site?
So 5 million fans?
So I must know somebody who'sone of her fans and they share
the posts with me, you know.
So I look on my Facebook pageand I see, oh, it's pretty cool

(21:17):
post.
And I see it's by mommy needsvodka.
What the heck's that all about?
I click on that.
What took me through her page?
I looked at some of her postsand said, oh, yeah, she's really
cool.
I became a fan.
Sure, mommy needs vodka.
I have an experiment right now.
I'm doing stinky cells more.
By the way, that's my Facebookpage.
We're just building content onit now Cause I want to.
Stinky is a trigger word, okay,but so talk about trigger words

(21:40):
, okay.
So how about the guy, the kid,who dropped out of high school,
started a magazine, a littlemagazine, and eventually started
a record company and became abillionaire?
He became a billionaire becauseof one term.
So I love saying this what doesRichard Branson, what do
Richard Branson and olive oilhave in common?

(22:01):
Virgin Virgin.
Virgin olive oil and virginreally originally virgin records
, and virgin.
You know what I mean.
It's virgin, it's pops out ofthe brain, it's like what?
So when I think of like triggerwords, which is one of the
brand new glue tools, think ofthe word dirty, okay.
So would you name your businessdirty?

(22:21):
Well, think of movies dirtydancing, yeah.
You know, was it really dirty?
Were they starting to run, makeit through the thing?
No, but dirty dancing, really,what?
How about dirty Harry?
You know?
Yeah, I mean, clint Eastwood'smovie is dirty Harry, you know,
I mean, he wasn't really dirty,I mean.
But okay, I'm old enough toremember dirty the dirty dozen.

(22:46):
There's dirty, rottenscoundrels, you know.
So I was trying to get majormagazines, the writers of major
magazines like you know New YorkTimes, wall Street and stuff
like that to review my book, andso I figured these guys must
get a gazillion emails.
So I decided to add the worddirty.
That was my dirty week.
I was into dirty.
Okay, the headline of the emailwas the dirty truth about an

(23:11):
article you wrote.
I said this after about 26writers and within 24 hours, two
of them responded immediately.
It said okay, you got me.
Okay, I want to see your book,I'm curious.
Okay, all, because I used thetrigger word.
And so when we start tounderstand the power of some of
these tools, you know it blowspeople's mind.

(23:33):
I mean, how about?
If the glove don't fit, youmust quit?
Yeah, oh, yeah, okay, yep, ojSimpson and Johnny Cochran.
Johnny Cochran was smart and herecognized.
You know, if I say, hey, look,if the glove doesn't fit my
client, yet you know you have tofind I'm not guilty.
But that's, it doesn't resonatewith the brain, but rhyme

(23:55):
resonates with the brain If thegloves don't fit, you must quit.
I remember after the trial, twoof the jurors were being asked
questions and one of them wasresponding, while the other one
was nodding her head inagreement and the interviewer
said with all that evidenceagainst OJ.
Why'd you find him not guilty?
And without even hesitating,she said we knew if the glove

(24:17):
don't fit, you must quit.
The glove didn't fit, we had toquit Wild.
You know.
A motion compared to all thislogical evidence, okay, but a
motion wins out because ittriggers the brain.
I love this thing.
Say go ahead.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
So how?
How would Joe, in your opinionlet's say we have Joe out there
and he's going to open hislandscaping company Like what
should he is mental dialogue,his social group, be thinking
about in regards to a name forthat company, in your opinion?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Okay, I've got, I got a few really good examples of
that, okay.
So let me give you two examples.
Okay, first, I want to just getthis guy's name and I want to
make sure I get his name right.
I forget his name, but I'lltell you how this works.
Okay, it's Sean Feld.
Okay, I was looking at thissite that has a list of top

(25:06):
workout guys, you know, yeah,and it has JoeJohnsoncom,
maryhudsoncom and everythingelse, but the top guy is this
guy, sean Feld.
I forget what his first name isand his is LookGreatNakedcom.
Yep, okay, lookgreatnakedcom.
Yeah, okay, I mean that's,isn't that a better?

(25:26):
I mean that's a great name.
That's because he's trying tosell the message instead of
selling himself.
Sure, okay, people look on thatand they go oh, wow, so I have
these three guys.
When I first discovered thepower of Brayngo, I didn't have
the name yet, but I understoodthe power of this thing, so I
started applying it.
I had these three guys who werein construction.
Okay, well, after 10 years, Ihad 2 million of sales.
It's not bad 2 million of sales.

(25:47):
Sure, in one year I took up the10 million of sales and then,
two years later, they reached 32million of sales.
So what did I do?
By the way, I took them from 2to 10 million in one year and
they razz me.
I said, hey, bond, it wassupposed to be 12 million, their
goal.
I said, shut up, they boughteach other the biggest BMW.
They're Beamer lovers.
They each bought a because theyhad so much cash coming in.

(26:10):
They really wanted cash wascoming in, sure.
And so what did I do?
So I said let's, let me get a,let me work a whiteboard.
I love whiteboards it was funny, by the way, just so we can do
this.
I said I'm going to work withyou guys, but I need a
whiteboard.
And so one of the partners saidyeah, and when you're done, you
can take the whiteboard withyou, because we don't use
whiteboards.
The second week that I came inthere, there's all this stuff

(26:34):
written on the whiteboard.
I like torturing people so Ipulled it on a racer to a racer.
There was before a camera onthe phone.
He goes no, no no, no racing.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yet I said okay well.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I thought you guys don't need whiteboards and I
didn't tell you what happened.
I have all these subcontractorsat a table and I'm asking them
so what are you going to do?
What are you going to do?
And I figured well, this isgreat.
Why don't I write them down onthe whiteboard?
Because you got your whiteboardhere.
I started writing them down andguess what happened?
I never saw this before.
Every guy that I startedwriting his what he said his

(27:05):
promise was going to be, of whathe was going to do the guy was
desperately searching for a penand paper so he could write it
down.
Yeah, okay, yeah, because theydidn't realize that I'm writing
it down, so they're going tohave the caliber to it.
Yeah.
So he said no, that whiteboardthing is great.
I said, oh, so I don't get totake it home.
He said no, and I said sohere's what I did.
Okay, I said let's make ashopping list of all the clients

(27:27):
you've got over the past 10years.
Yeah, the types of clientsyou've had.
So we wrote down the list andeverything else Took about an
hour.
You know, oh, what we forgotabout this guy, Whatever else.
Okay, and I said let's play agame.
Let's pick one client, one typeof client, that you're going to
go after and you're going tosay no to everybody else, you
know.
And they said, well, no, wedon't want to say no to anyone.
I said I got that, but we'replaying a game.

(27:47):
Let's figure this out.
You have to choose this onecategory You're going to go
after.
Yeah, what would it be?
It took them a while and theyfinally said fire restoration
for insurance companies.
I don't know what that is, Idon't really insurance the
construction industry but theystarted explaining it's a client
.
You know an insurance companythat has a client that has a
fire.
You know they would bring us in.

(28:08):
And we had three examples thatwe did.
One guy had one insurancecompany had two clients that we
worked with and one had one.
So we've done it three times butit was really easy because they
said it's really cool, becauseyou go in and the first thing
you do is you check the frame ofthe building.
If the frame is damaged, yougot to tear down the whole
building, but if it's notdamaged, then what you do is you
want to put it up, make sureit's not going to catch fire
again and all that stuff, okay,and fix it.

(28:29):
And they said well, we'd loveto work on fire restoration for
insurance companies.
So I was thinking about it andI said so what's the first word
that comes to the client's mindbefore they call you Fire, right
?
Hey, I got Joe Johnson justcalled and they've got their
house had a fire.
So why don't we call ourselvesfire Fire extinguisher for

(28:52):
insurance companies?
And we'll get fire exes, thewebsite, okay, what do you think
happened?
Well, I went with them on thefirst two prospects to prospects
we're talking about what we do.
We said just think of us as thefire extinguisher for you guys.
And of course the clients wouldlaugh okay, we don't put out
the fire, but we fix it afterthe fire.
Is there?

(29:12):
That became the trigger, thatstarted.
That took them from two to 10million in sales in one year,
because clients laugh.
But they would call.
You know they go.
Okay, joe Johnson has a fire,had a fire in his house.
Okay, so we're going to sendsomebody out.
Oh, I'm going to send my fireextinguisher out too.
They're doing analysis and hey,firexcom, you guys, you're

(29:33):
ready, I've got a client for you.
And one by one, they had somuch business that they stopped
doing work for any other type ofconstruction industry or a
construction area because theymade so much money.
Because what I did was Ifigured out a trigger and like
what does somebody have or whatare they thinking of?
And can you, you know, can youplug that into what your pitches

(29:55):
or your product name, and sothey became just massively
successful.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Way interesting.
Have you heard of?
Oh shoot?
I forget his name because he'sactually not out there that much
.
He started Sumbum and he wasactually the original guy from.
He invented the Taco Bell dog.
Are you familiar with him?

Speaker 2 (30:13):
No, no, that sounds really cool.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, and his thing was like you're actually like I
was I've heard so much out ofyou in the class a couple of
minutes that I'm like I've neverput those things together
before, actually Like it's likereally cool psychology I mean.
And like what you're saying iskind of like he said he named
Sumbum.
Because it's like now you'rethinking son, right, and now
you're thinking like and so whenI'm talking to people about how

(30:35):
to name your business which isone of my least favorite things
to do because the repercussionsare, you know, like you can name
a bad business poorly andyou're going to suffer because
of it, right?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
I'm like yeah, I named my daughter.
She didn't like the name.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Sure, absolutely, and so like, yeah, naming your
business right away.
So is that, like when you'restarting, in your opinion, the
most important thing is the name?

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Absolutely.
I mean, and if you have a name,you don't have to change the
name.
You're going to have a subtitledescribing what it is too.
So we have a lot of people thatdon't want to change the name.
I in fact.
So I work with, so I submittedmy book to Jack Canfield and
Jack Canfield wrote Chicken Soupfor the Soul, co-wrote it.
Okay, yeah, because he actuallyinvented the process.

(31:20):
They sold 500 million books,okay, and he was telling me you
know for himself, you know hewrote a book.
It's got 101 powerful storiesthat will change your life.
Okay, that was the title of thebook.
It's logical 101 powerfulstories that will change your
life.
Yeah, people will read it.
Maybe not.
So for a bottom, within about amonth he would have sleepless

(31:41):
nights.
And one day he woke up and hesaid you know, chicken soup
makes you feel good when youfeel sick.
Yeah, my book makes you feelgood when you feel sick.
So I should call it ChickenSoup for the Spirit.
But somehow the chicken soupfor the spirit didn't sound
right, because alliteration isone of my tools, the repetition
of sounds.
I'll give you some examples ina second.
So he said chicken soup for thefor the spirit didn't work and

(32:07):
he said within a few days herealized S-O-U-P-S-O-U-L.
Chicken soup for the soul,that's done a really good.
Yeah, he's sold 500 millionbooks.
He sold 100 million chickensoup for the soul books and 400
million of the other chickensoup for the teenage soul,
chicken soup for the cancer andsomebody that's going on and
stuff.
Now, 500 million.
In case people don't understandit, think of Apple.
Apple computer invented theiPhone, right, yeah, they sold

(32:30):
500 million iPhones.
Jack Katz, you'll sold the samenumber of books.
Okay, that's not.
If you make a buck a book, ifyou make 50, if you make 25
cents a book, I'll go for that,jack.
Hey, come on, give me money.
I mean.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
How scary is it that he couldn't have named that,
that book, that name and wouldhave went nowhere.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Exactly, and that's you don't really so my book.
So he read my book.
He said he was got pissed offat me.
So I can't put that.
I couldn't put the damn thingdown.
I got so many books to read.
I'm looking at your book.
I started reading it and I'mgoing like whoa, this is
incredible.
He's forcing everybody and he'sforced, he's forcing this
company.
He got them a copy of the bookand he's forcing them to apply

(33:09):
it, not just to read it, but toapply it.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
And so I'm listening to him and the title of the book
was called sell more with theright brain marketing strategy,
which is very logical, notemotional.
And so he got pissed off at me.
He said, okay, I'll.
He's telling me how he lovesthe book and everything else.
I said, can I use that?
He said, only on one condition.
You've tortured all of us byforcing us to make everything
emotional.

(33:33):
You got to change the title ofyour book.
I can't even remember the damnname.
Your whole book is about brainglue.
You got to title it brain glue.
You're the brain glue guy, yeah, and I'm like you know, I had
like eight reviews.
When you get reviews on Amazon,it helps.
The more reviews you get, themore Amazon, will you know,
promote your book too.
Sure, but no, he said, no, Idon't care.
You got to go back to thebeginning.
Your book is all about brainglue, and brain glue is

(33:53):
emotional.
That's what you got to changethe name to.
And he was right.
But it was a pain because like,oh, do I have to change it?
But you know you don't have tochange your name, but I'm
telling you that.
So how do you like?
How do you like this?
Okay, how would you like toinvent a product that's
incredible and somebody you hateyour biggest competitor steals
the idea from you and makes somuch money that you end up

(34:17):
stopping to sell the productbecause you can't even make a
living on that product.
How do you like to do that?
Okay, so let me give you agreat example.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
So post-serials competes with Kellogg's Corn
Flakes.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
So the head of post-serials came up with this
idea of, like, taking thislittle cake and putting jelly
inside it or, you know, like araspberry or strawberry inside
it, and then putting it in atoaster and he called it country
squares.
And so he was so proud of itand so blown away by it that,
like two months before helaunched the product, he started

(34:50):
telling the media I got thisnew product country squares.
It's so amazing.
You put it in your toaster andyou get this cool cake that you
can eat in breakfast or duringthe day and everything else.
So the head of Kellogg's lookedat it and said what an
incredible idea.
He quickly got some guys insidehis company to figure out how
to make that product sameproduct.
But what did he call it?

(35:11):
Okay, he said, well, andyWarhol is really popular, so
people know pop art right.
So let's use that word becauseit resonates with everybody's
brain and it pops out of thetoaster.
I'll call it pop tarts, geniusPop tarts.
He launched it a week beforecountry squares launched.
It was exploded.
Oh man, I mean exploded so muchthat they ran out of inventory,

(35:34):
okay, and he ran up on apologyin major newspapers like New
York Times and stuff, saying weare so sorry.
We ran on a product because wedidn't realize how many people
are going to love this, but holdon for just less than a week
and we'll have more product foryou.
So you think people went andbought country squares.
No, they waited for pop tartsand they bought pop tarts and

(35:54):
country squares sold so few theywent out of business.
They stopped selling pop tarts.
They're a product.
Wow.
All because they didn't knowhow to do this.
I'm telling you, this is sopowerful that you know how many.
If you have a crappy productthis don't even think of my book
go away, okay.
But if you have a good productthat you're passionate about
what you have, you want totransfer that passion.

(36:16):
Wouldn't it be great?
You know, don't struggle.
You don't have to struggle ifyou can explain it or name it in
such a way that people go oh,that's cool.
You know, I think of it this waywhen you leave your home,
you're driving down the streetand you're passing all these
homes or apartments.
Okay, wherever you live, youdon't look at it everyone.
Oh, look at that guy's house.
Oh, look at that guy's house.
You don't look at them becauseyou drive past it every day and

(36:39):
it's like, okay, I got to getfrom my home to this place.
Okay, yeah, one day you'redriving down the street and you
see flames that are coming outof one of your neighbor's
windows.
Are you going to go?
Oh, nothing.
No, you're going to go, ohnothing.
His host is on fire.
Does he know it?
Is that going to burn my house?
Trigger went off.
Okay, I trigger went off.

(36:59):
And that's what you need withyour product, right?
Yeah, because people see, add,add, add product, product,
product, and then they suddenlygo.
You want to go?
What's that matter?
From ours, one for Venus, youknow?
Pop tarts, what, what's that?
That sounds really cool.
Yeah, we want to grab theirattention and when you do that,
you have a much better chance ofyou know, selling your products

(37:21):
and ideas.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Oh, it's such a I actually.
So I wrote a book.
I'm too afraid to release it atthis point, but I have a whole
chapter.
It's basically a step-by-stepprocess.
I know how to open a smallbusiness for underdogs and I
have a whole chapter on naming,you know, and so I pulled as
much out there in the worldbecause it's one of my least
favorite things because of whatI told you.
It's just, it's so impactful toyour business and you know,
like you've given me so much, Ihate it even more now.

(37:44):
But now I love the thought thatyou could have the magic one
right, so like, and I didn'texpect to go.
So we're gonna have to doanother podcast at some point,
but naming is so important so Iwant to stay on it.
Like, if you're storyboardingit, you know, like, what's the
best way for, like abootstrapping team, to be like
plug-in to the right?
Would you whiteboard all thisand be like, okay, let's look at

(38:05):
these names and then like,would you then pull an audience?
Or like, like, what would yoube your process in this?
I would love to hear it here'show you do it.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
So you're logical.
So don't turn off the logic.
Let's get the logic out of yoursystem.
Yeah, so come up with, first ofa clear description of what
your product is or does.
Like squatty, potty, okay, yeah.
Like that's all this tool, yeah, okay, come up with the logical
names that you think would begood.
Okay then what you do is findanalogies or similar as similes.
Okay, well, find other wordsfor it.

(38:34):
So, like squatty potty, she wastoilet stool, okay.
So what's another word fortoilet?
No, no, we send things squattypotty.
Well, that's really good, butit works in the industrial
things to help a porta potty,yeah, okay.
How about JB weld is consideredthe strongest welding glue that
you have, and yet there's theirsecond in command, or third, to

(38:55):
guess what?
Gorilla glue, yeah, wow, hey,you're right, it is.
It might not be as strong as JBweld, yeah, but it's the name,
yeah.
But so the first thing you wantto do is you want to think of,
you know, synonyms for yourproduct.
So it's a monkey ranch, okay,so monkey ranch, it's a pliers,

(39:15):
it's a list, all the names youcould think of.
Then look for synonyms forthose.
Okay, what are other words thatI can use?
Like you know, toilet stool wastoilet potty, yeah, okay, think
of analogy or metaphor.
I'll give you a great metaphor.
Okay, so this guy, paul Tran,invented an electric razor for
man's private areas.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Okay, I get too much into that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
So what's it like?
So he's thinking of a name andhe came up with the lawnmower.
Okay, even changing the name ofhis company to a man's scape,
we're manscaping a land with alot more.
Yeah, if I bought, if I boughta lawnmower, okay, I wouldn't
share with other guys.
And let's start there.
Okay, yeah, but I would sharethe story so I can see telling
my friends hey, I just bought alawnmower, what you have to mow
your lawn.

(39:58):
No, no, no, it mows my privatelawn, it's my private areas.
Yeah they start laughing andsharing the idea with other
people.
Okay, so metaphors or analogiesare really good.
It's just like and be as crazyas possible, come up with the
craziest idea.
It's like a naked man runningnaked through my backyard.
You know they have fun with it.
Yeah, because when you have funwith it, I mean whoever thought

(40:21):
that?
He must have laughed like crazy?
Can you call it the lawnmower?
Yeah, funny.
Sure, when they had the guts tosay you know what?
Maybe I'll name the product thelawnmower.
I mean, sometimes you have tohave guts to do that.
He's made like.
He's made over a hundredmillion dollars.
Big companies are trying to buyhim out and he goes no, I can
make more money some.
You know you haven't offered meenough money yet.

(40:41):
I think like Braun and all thesethe shaver companies are trying
to buy him up.
It's all the power of a name,you know.
If you know if he called it theman's I don't what, you start
with the simple things the man'selectric razor.
I don't know what you're called, yeah, but you know what's it
like.
Yeah, when you think of whatyour product is like, you could
have lots of fun and Also havelots of success, because you

(41:03):
come up with something that'semotionally powerful.
And I think here's the thing weget in business because we're
passionate.
Yeah, if you're not passionate,you shouldn't be in business.
Okay, I agree.
Oh you're selling.
Okay, you may not like all thethings you have to do and your
books and records and all thatstuff.
You know you may end up doing abunch of things you don't like
to do, but you have toultimately be passionate about
what you're doing, what you'reoffering, okay.
But then school has taught usto be logical.

(41:26):
Logic is how you sell, which isnot true, okay, so you have to
be logical.
That's why, like math, you knowOne plus one equals two.
I love saying to have an ad forJurex condoms one plus one
equals three.
Okay, I mean, yes, I got that,okay.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
I don't even heard that one when this one plus one,
not equal one.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
You know, you have a flock of birds and other flock
together, you just have thebigger flock of birds.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
So, but we're taught logic.
But you want to have, you wantto Communicate emotionally, you
want to trigger the emotionparts of the brain, and so, if
I'm passionate, I created thisstool because I think it's gonna
make a difference in people'slives.
Yeah, I call it the squattypotty.
Huh, now, it's fun to sell.
Sure, because people relate tothe squatty potty.
Oh, I go.
Okay, I got it.

(42:12):
You know, it's just so, that'syou know.
Start with logic.
Get the logic out of yoursystem, write them down or
whiteboard whiteboards are greatfor it, by the way, if you
don't have a whiteboard, use amirror, and you can use
whiteboard pens and wait, eraseit off mirrors.
Okay, yeah, a lot of peopledon't know that, but but, yeah,
it's just.
Or window, but but just Writedown everything.
Get it out of your system andthen start thinking of what

(42:35):
rhymes with.
What are the some of the otherwords I can use to describe this
?
What's an analogy or metaphor?
It's just like and be as crazyas possible.
And then use alliteration.
Yeah, you know, like.
You know, like a Coca-Cola bestbuy PayPal.
Tick talk.
You think it's a coincidence?
They use a repeating sound.

(42:56):
You know if tick talk wascalled the Chinese social media
platform.
You think they would be assuccessful as tick talk?
Probably not, you know it.
Just, these are, you know, a lotof people say, well, those are
rich people.
You know, no, a lot of themstarted I mean, that was tick
talk is started with a lot ofmoney.
Yeah, a lot of them startedwith almost no money.
I scream yeah, you open it up,it's got rocks inside it.

(43:18):
Yeah, it's got nuts andmarshmallows.
Yeah, but it's like you know,they're using a metaphor, but
they're also using thealliteration rocky road.
It's like a rock, you know, atrocky roads it's, it's a
repeating sound and it works.
So, yeah, it's just, it's funwhen you start people and it's
easier than most people realizeBecause you're, if you're, a

(43:39):
logical person, you just gothrough the process and once you
, you know, Once you go throughit once or twice, you start
realizing how much fun it is andit helps you Like the fire of
desire and you buy.
I've got two terms.
Okay, switch your pitch if youwant to get rich and bring who
lights the fire of desire atyour buyer.

(44:00):
I went to chat GPT and I said so.
I started showing some of thethings.
I haven't trying to get a tool.
I'm trying to get a phrase andmost of them are stupid.
Had like a hundred reallystupid ones.
But it said why brain glue?
Because plain glue doesn'tstick to the brain.
I went oh, that's a cool one.
But yeah, but that's the.
That's.
The secret is, you want, youknow, you want to have a name or

(44:21):
description for your product orservice that will resonate
enough with them, like I youknow the service I had with a
fire extinguisher for the, youknow, for the construction
company.
You just want to have somethingthat sticks in the brain.
Yeah, when it sticks to thebrain, you have a better chance
of getting them to buy yourproduct or service and you know
for those out there that's nevernamed a business before.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I'm up to like 20 or 30 now and then helping other
people name their businesses.
You know it like this is amaster class in it.
That's why I wanted to stay onit, because it's not like to me.
It's not very easy and actuallyyou're making it sound like now
like a little bit more excitingthan I ever been about it
before.
Right, because now I start tosee, think about it as dollar
signs more and more.
It's like how much marketingbudget do we get to negate just

(45:05):
by choosing the right name?
And that's kind of like to yourpoint, right?

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's just I'll go back to poptarts.
You know he came up with abetter name and therefore he was
able to make a ton of moneywhile the other guys start, why
should you struggle?
If you, if you invented aproduct or develop the product
or service, it's really good.
You know you're talking about alandscaping guy.
Okay, I mean, so they can comeup with names that are really
fun.
So what landscaping?
You know I'm I can't think ofsome now, but you have lots of

(45:32):
fun with you work on awhiteboard.
It's really good.
You start, you know, coming upwith all names land, because I'm
thinking of that's what.
The only reason I can't dolandscape right now, because I'm
stuck with manscape.
You know, go on landscape,homescape, but you can have lots
of fun.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
It's crazy too, because from an underdog
standpoint too, it's like youcan come up with the lottery
rating right name, and you'vegiven several examples already.
It's like so oh, I'm anunderdog, I can't do this, I'm
not gonna be able to competewith the big dogs, or whatever.
It's like choosing the rightname.
You can compete, right, you getahead and then, like we haven't
even delved into, like what thePR potential is around that and

(46:08):
what the Free marketingpotential is, and you know not
only that, but you put a videoout on social media with the
right name and then people areclicking on it because they're
like what the heck is this thing?
I got to know just because ofthe name and a secret to bring
good.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
This is all important understand is this is meant for
people to have almost no moneyto spend on marketing, and yet
you want to take on the Giants.
I'll give you one quick example.
Okay, I live in SouthernCalifornia.
So there's a family that wantedto start a hamburger place.
They could afford you knowenough that they could make it,
take out, but they couldn'tbring people in because they
couldn't afford a big location.
So what are they competing with?

(46:41):
They're competing withMcDonald's, burger King, wendy's
.
These guys spend tens ofmillions of dollars, you know,
just in Southern Californiaalone, on advertising.
So nobody's gonna see yourplace.
So they came up with kiasmus.
I'll tell you quickly what thatis.
It's an opposite.
So Rhymes a, b, a, b, kiasmusis a BB.
I'll just give you two examplesand I'll show you how it worked

(47:01):
with them.
Winners never quit and quittersnever win.
When they're going to stuff,get going.
You know, martin Luther,president JFK said that's not
what your country can do for youask what you can do for your
country.
Okay, so it's a flip.
Okay, we also said mankind mustput an end to war or war will

(47:21):
put an end to mankind.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, you got it.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
So this restaurant place.
They said why don't we callourselves in and out burger?
Okay, first, in and out meanssex for a lot of people.
Okay, and they and they got agood location.
They could afford a goodlocation, but it was a small
location, it was a drive-thru.
Their sales exploded.
They're still there.
They're now in California andthey're moving wet at East.

(47:46):
Okay, there's, it's a familybusiness.
They're competing with people,companies that spend tens of
millions of dollars and more onadvertising.
But you're driving by andyou're going in and out.
In and out burger Because youknow, for a lot of people mean
sex.
You go like, but in and out,okay, what is else it drives
through?
Okay, check it out.
Now, if they had a crappyproduct, it would help them

(48:07):
short term, but long term theygot a business because they have
a good product.
But there are tons of peoplethat have good products and yet
they still struggle.
But these guys came up with thename In-N-Out Burger.
The only thing they couldafford in advertising was a sign
.
So they put it on their signIn-N-Out Burger.
And people were like again,flames coming out of the window
of something down the street.

(48:27):
You're driving down the streetand you go In-N-Out Burger.
What's that?
My wife and I were just drivingby.
We have one nearby and I'mamazed they always have lines of
cars going through.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Oh, they're always busy.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
And they're competing against the Giants, and that's
the secret Naked juice.
They were competing with Adwala.
Adwala was owned by Coca-Cola,I think they still are, and
Coca-Cola is unlimited funds foradvertising.
And yet Adwala was dominatingthe marketplace until Naked came
along.

(49:02):
You're driving, you're walkinginto a store.
You're going OK, here's AdwalaNaked.
What's Naked Juice?
You're going to pick it up.
You have a better chance ofbuying it if you have it in your
hand.
Ok, they understood that you'vegot to have flames coming out
of your product somehow.
So people are going whoa,chicken soup for the soul.
What the heck's that?
And when you do that and it'seasier than most people realize

(49:25):
that's what's so great aboutthis.
My book is not a gazillionpages.
It's short.
It gets to the point, goes on,gives you stories, gives you
jokes.
You can actually usebrain-glued for jokes.
I'd rather have a bottle infront of me than a frontal of
bottom.
Where I'm old enough for this torelate is I'd rather wake up in
P than P than wake up OK.

(49:47):
This is a phasmas, ok, it's aflip, just like in an Uber, ok.
But when you come up with aname like that, you're right.
The name is so importantbecause it gives people an
opportunity to understandwhether your product is going to
be successful or not.
And a good example of somebodywhose product failed because
they had a bad name was PinkSlime.

(50:07):
Pink Slime was stuff thatcompanies like McDonald's and
Burger King used because theywould mix it with the hamburger
and it had low-fat hamburger, soit reduced the fat content of
the hamburger.
But basically, all theleftovers from high-end meat
like really high-end meat wouldbe they would grind it up and

(50:30):
then they would put it into thisthing, but they call it Pink
Sludge, I think they call it.
And so people started going ew,they're putting Pink Sludge in
our products and our hamburgers.
That's gross.
And they actually got them.
The company almost wentbankrupt OK, even though it was
a positive thing that went underthe products.
They have.
The company the Wonder Breadinvented sliced bread.

(50:55):
A lot of people say, well,that's the greatest thing since
sliced bread.
You don't realize you'reactually talking about Wonder
Bread because they were thefirst bread that actually came
out sliced.
But they bleached their breadso they had a.
We have COVID.
We had COVID.
They had this thing called apelagra, which is an absence of
vitamin B3, gets you sick andyou die.
A lot of people would die andso their competitors came up

(51:17):
with a slogan.
What was the slogan?
The whiter your bread, thequicker you're dead.
And it took for 10 years.
Wonder Bread dominated thebread market Almost overnight.
They almost went bankrupt.
They actually had to inventwhen you add vitamins and
minerals to food.
They added niacin, which haslots of vitamin B3 in it, so it

(51:39):
wouldn't be a problem.
But they literally almost wentbankrupt because of the phrase
the whiter your bread, thequicker you're dead.
So we understand that when youunderstand the power of
emotional selling, there's somany ways you can use it.
I mean, it's just this list.
So much fun.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
No, I'm in.
This is the best stuff I'veheard around naming ever,
absolutely, and I've tried topull in my book is all about my
mistakes that I've made.
It's like, hey, here's the wayto do it, because here's the way
I did it wrong, and so inlearning from it.
But honestly, this is amasterclass on naming your
business.
It's the best stuff I've everheard, all in a row.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Thank you so much?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Oh, absolutely, and I live for this stuff.
And how will?
We can help business owners andit's so achievable.
Right to be clever and think ofa good name.
It's going to take some time toget me wrong, but I've listened
and pulled a lot of things outin the world.
The guy that started Zillow hetalks about that and they just
kind of randomly put a bunch ofstuff on the board and he's like

(52:37):
that's one way to do it.
The other way is we hired outto an executive company and all
they do in life is make names.
It's like I mentioned theSunbump guy.
He's like you could talk aboutin your analogy too.
It's like you use what it is aspart of the name right Now
you're automatically thinkingabout it.
Or there's the Google, right.

(52:58):
It's like now we're inventing aword which is harder, right,
because it takes longer todevelop that traction, but now
you can be synonymous for whatwe do when we search something.
So these are the best thingsI've ever come up with until
today.
You know like wholeheartedly,you've got me bought hood light
and sticker into that and it'slike it's so simple.

(53:19):
It's like it's developed someemotion around your brand so
other people can have emotiontowards it Can.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
I tell you one last thing.
Yeah, it's important to notethis, ok, sure.
So we look at a lot ofcompanies and we think, wow,
their name is really great, orhow they market it is really
great, but they spend a fortune,ok, and it's easy to get fooled
.
So let me give you an exampleof a lousy an advertising
campaign that everybody thinksis fabulous but is actually

(53:45):
terrible.
Ok, are you ready for this?
I'm ready.
Got milk, ok?
Ok, here's an article fromBusinessweek about 10 years ago
and it's called Got Milk, ok.
After more than $385 million,sales still continue to decline.
Ok, why?
Because milk used to bedelivered to our doorsteps I

(54:09):
mean, our grandparents'doorsteps, ok, and it used to be
.
Because milk helps strengthenyour bones and all that stuff.
Because of calcium.
But you can get calcium fromspinach when you're already
getting, and there are a lot ofthings you can get calcium from,
not just milk.
But a lot of people havelactose intolerance, where if
you drink milk, you still feelsick, and so I don't have

(54:31):
lactose intolerance, but I sortof feel like maybe I could a
little bit.
So I'm limited myself as to howmuch milk I drink.
So if I have lactoseintolerance or afraid of it and
they say Got Milk.
I love the campaign.
I've got the Milk Mustache.
One of my kids had a MilkMustache poster with a famous
person on it that they wish heloved.

(54:52):
The Milk Mustache and Got Milkcampaign were fun, but they
didn't sell milk.
And so when we're coming upwith a name that's what's very
important or a description, it'sgot to be something that
resonates with the brain.
If Kia cars had this one, theysaid I'll see you in a Kia.

(55:13):
That doesn't tell me why I'dwant a Kia car.
And so we get fooled because welook at stuff like Got Milk and
think, well, I got to come upwith a campaign like that
without realizing that's notworking.
It didn't make it.
They were struggling becausefewer and fewer people were
drinking milk.
I mean, not everybody.
People still drink milk, butcompared to how many people used

(55:33):
to drink milk, they ran anadvertising campaign to try to
get more people to drink milkand less people drank milk, not
more, even though they loved theadvertising campaign.
And that's because we get fooled.
We see McDonald's ads and we go, oh wow, we got a copy of
McDonald's, but they've got likealmost a billion dollars to
spend on advertising.
We don't.

(55:54):
That's a wonderful point andthat's why we want to pick
things where somebody who had nomoney and suddenly made a ton
of money Like in our burgers andlike you're squatting, potting
and some of these things,because these guys Jack Canfield
they say, well, he's rich, hesold 500 million books.
He started out poor.
They maxed out their creditcards, they had no money and

(56:14):
then suddenly they just gotlucky and it transformed and
suddenly he started making a tonof money.
And that's what you want tolook at is who had almost no
money and then came up with ablockbuster spending almost no
money.
And I go back to mommy needsvodka.
She's spent zero and she's gotmore fans than most people have
spent a fortune.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
I couldn't agree more , because that's the perception
too.
We always think that the bigwigs are going to be the
smartest and the people thathave the most money are always
going to be the most in the know.
It's not necessarily true.
David beats Goliath all thetime and it's just a clever idea
away from being able to do that.
So the assumption that bigbusiness always knows these are

(56:54):
such good points, like you'vemade such amazing points around
how an underdog can actually useall these things that you're
talking about today and honestly, people don't think about it
enough either.
The bureaucracy around thesebig companies, right.
So even if somebody in the roomcomes up with an amazing name,
that's kind of fun maybe they'reafraid to say it for one, or it
gets nixed by everybody, andthat would have been the one

(57:16):
that really hit the wall At yourown small business.
You get to make that decision.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
That's right.
That's right.
That's why $5 foot longexploded sales for Subway
sandwiches.
But that was developed by oneof the franchises and the
headquarters didn't want to doit because they didn't come up
with the idea, and so theyfought it forever.
And then suddenly so many ofthe franchises were coming up
with $5 foot long and theyfinally said, ok, fine, they

(57:42):
started promoting it, but theydidn't want to do it.
I mean McDonald's breakfast.
The Egg McMuffins wasn'tinvented by corporate.
It was invented by this guy inPasadena, one of the franchises,
because he said nobody's cominghere in breakfast time and he
invented the Egg McMuffin.
That's why it's us guys and galswe want to figure out stuff.

(58:04):
You want to come up with asolution to something that's
really valuable for people, butyou also want to name it in such
a way that people go, oh,that's cool, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I want to be part of that.
And that's what underdogs,bootstrapers and game changers.
You don't have to have a lot ofmoney, and that's the secret.
You don't have to have a lot ofmoney, you have to have
creativity.
Replace it.

(58:25):
I work with craft foods.
They got money to throw on itand if it's a lousy product,
they're still going to throw aton of money on it until they
finally decided we don't want tosell it anymore.
We don't get that luxury and sowe don't have a lot of money.
So we have to use creativityand creativity.
If you have a really greatproduct or service that's going
to get you the greatest productsin the world.
I mean Steve Jobs.
That's why we love Steve Jobs.

(58:46):
He didn't start rich.
You know.
They invented stuff out oftheir him and Wozniak's garage.
You know.
I mean, that's what's fun.
The greatest inventions cameout of a garage or a kitchen
table or a toilet like a squattypotty, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
You know Walt Disney and you know like getting his
last character stolen and heevents a mouse on the way home
and you know that changed theworld, literally changed the
world, and then he got the idea.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
He made his brother and investors rich, and then he
came up with the idea forDisneyland and they didn't want
to invest in it.
You have to start, go on to ABCtelevision and start a show,
and they're watching the show.
And he went oh, that's whathe's talking about.
Oh yeah, I mean yeah, I meaneven the Disney couldn't sell
his brother, who he made rich,and investors, who he made rich.

(59:35):
He couldn't sell on his idea.
That was a blockbuster idea.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
That's why his story is so crazy to me is because
it's like you finally make itright.
He finally makes it with themouse.
It's a home run after likebeing destitute, have all these
failures, everything else.
And then he's like I got thisidea.
It's Cinderella, it's the firstyou know fully feature film of
all time.
And everybody's like no, no,walt Can't, no, I'm doing it
anyways.
So he risks everything, does it.

(59:59):
It's a smash hit.
And to your point, disneyland,same thing.
You know, no, walt, not a goodidea.
Boom, you know, it's like.
It's one thing, like that'swhat I like admire about him
especially is like how do youlike struggle and struggle and
struggle and make it and rollthe dice again?
Like that is bravery, that issome entrepreneurial bravery.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yeah.
And creativity, I mean, yeah, alot of people are creative and
not brave.
You got to be both.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah, oh, this has just been like I can't believe
an hour or so up already.
Like this is James.
This is some of the mostamazing stuff I've heard around.
Naming emotion Like this is awonderful tool for and I was
like I dared hope a little bit,you know, because of some of
your stories.
But then, like, like this,folks you're not going to quite
understand this yet because youhaven't been through 20
businesses and things by now.

(01:00:43):
But take every bit of adviceJames said today Like this is
something you can have, is anace in your pocket to start your
business, and start yourbusiness like with a, with a
bang.
Right, it's like that's why itgives you more reasons than to
be Joe's landscape business.
Right, it's like Joe'slandscape business is great.
You're Joe, you know.
But think about creativity andhow you can use some passion,

(01:01:05):
like James is saying, and someemotion around that.
I'm already like man.
I just started four companiesin the last couple of months and
I'm like I wish we would talksooner.
You know, like I'd probably beredaming some of them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
That's why Jack Hanfield got pissed at me
because he said chicken soup forthe soul was great.
But I have all these otherbooks that I could have used
pretty good for them.
Oh yeah, he's forcing us to.
But yeah, just, it's easy andthat's the big.
That's.
It's easy and it's fun whenit's a little work, but it's not
as much work as you think.
And then when you come up withsomething, you know, suddenly it

(01:01:36):
becomes fun.
You know the selling partbecomes fun, not just a creating
part, and that's, you know,that's how you grow your
business.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
You know, I like to think of myself as a creature of
growth.
You know, sir, I've been doingthis for quite a long time now,
you know, and I've been evolved,like I said, with even naming
and things like that, quite afew times, and it's always been
a dreaded thing.
You know my business partner Italk about it all the time.
We always hate the naming part,you know it's like.
But today you actually shiftedmy mind.
It's like let's start lookingforward to the naming part,
let's see how creative we couldpossibly be and let's try to hit

(01:02:07):
that lottery winning name Right.
I think it's a lottery winningname because it could do that
for you, and that's.
You've provided so many examplesalong those lines and along
those lines of interdisciplinarythought.
The great idea could come fromanywhere.
You know, like some of myfavorite stuff, today you've hit
.
You've hit amazingly.
We're going to have to haveanother discussion.
I haven't read your book yet,but I promise you I'm going to,

(01:02:31):
and like I'm fascinated by it,and I'll probably, you know,
with your blessing come out witha couple of clips here and
there around what I've learnedfrom it.
You know, and so, and yeah, weshould get back to that, get you
back sometime, because I feellike we got on name, which is so
important, and I, I, like Isaid, I see very little good
information on naming a businessout there and like I've been
pulling from it.
That's why I want to stay on ittoday, but I think we got to

(01:02:53):
talk again sometime and we'llget on a different topic too.
Thank, you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Thank you so much.
Well, you want to change theworld.
I want to change the world.
Hopefully, people will buy abook, but, you know, because it
makes it easy.
But whether you buy the book ornot, you and I want to change
the world.
And you know, being anentrepreneur is the greatest
thing in the world, the greatestmankind has grown so much
because of people that areentrepreneurs.
You know, in business I meanit's just you know, and, and

(01:03:17):
yeah, and so the more we canhelp you guys and guys out there
, I mean that's the greatestgift that we get, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Oh, thank you so much for saying that.
You know, I appreciate thatmore than you know, and you're
right, it takes a village, youknow, and so, and like I'm glad
to have a fellow Kimterd spirit,you know out there, you know
trying to help these, thesefolks, get out there and change
the world, because businessthere is no greater tool to do
it.
You know especially youunderdogs come from.
You know like systems thataren't great, right and so, and

(01:03:44):
you have a heart for those.
So let's find you some successso you can change those things
Absolutely.
Is there anything else you wantto get out there in the world
before we say goodbye today?

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
No, I just.
I mean, if you guys want tocheck out the book, if you can
go to yesbraingluecom and it hasa bunch of stuff and it has
Jack Canfield talking, so he'sreally, he's really great.
But no, just you know, just be.
You know, transfer your passion.
Okay, if you're passionateabout your product and service,

(01:04:14):
communicate that.
I'll go back to you know, Ilearned from Zig Ziglar is
selling is nothing more thantransference of passion and that
changed my life and I think itwill change your lives too.
Be passionate and communicatethat passion and and have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
I couldn't agree more with everything.
Wonderful episode of underdogs,you know.
Thanks for tuning in today.
Check out James and his bookBrain Glue.
I'm going to read it myself.
I'll be back with some feedbackon the things that I loved from
it and, like I said, name yourbusiness.
I'm glad we got on this topictoday because it's not the
easiest thing in the world andyou can see like it's another
thing that we can have as a toolfor underdogs if we just think

(01:04:51):
about it.
Thanks, see you next time.