EMPOWERING ENTREPRENEURS TO THRIVE WITH PALOMA

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to underdogs, bootstrappers and
game changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(00:22):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our Content forGood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Underdogs,

(00:44):
Bootstrappers, Game Changers andyou know I love it when I have
a dear friend in the studio, mygood friend Paloma today.
Welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Thanks for coming to help Underdogs today.
And you know folks, I alwaystry to choose guests and you
know a story for the day, and sotoday we're actually going to
talk about business startupstuff.
Paloma happens to be a businessattorney for how many years now
?

Speaker 2 (01:10):
This is my ninth year of practice.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Ninth year and she's one of the most clever people I
know, and that's why I lovebeing able to.
Usually it would cost hundredsof dollars an hour to talk to
Paloma, but then I put her inthe studio here for today and
then you get her advice for free, which is amazing.
So, yeah, we're going to workon underdogs today and business
startup.
So let's talk about somebodyout there in the world today.

(01:36):
They want to start theirbusiness.
Your advice for the very firststep.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
For the very first step, I would say you have to
form the entity at a minimum.
Right, you can have all theideas in the world, but to have
a full-fledged business, thereare a lot of people out there
that will run a business that'sjust a sole proprietorship,
right Through their personalname, through their personal

(02:05):
social security number and, Ithink, bare minimum from a
limited liability standpoint.
You have to go and form anentity and I always recommend an
LLC for that purpose.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, folks, you can obviouslyuse your own social security
number.
You can go out there in theworld and you know, start your
business and just run it, useyour own social security number.
You can go out there in theworld and start your business
and just run it under your ownsocial security number.
But there's a lot of reasonswhy you want to separate the
entity.
There's tax reasons, there'sliability reasons.
Let's go into liability for asecond.

(02:37):
So person A, let's say, juststarts doing work under their
social security number.
Talk to me about that.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think if you were going to really
break it down right, somebodywho's doing work, let's use a
service-based industry.
You're doing work as a servicebusiness and you screw something
up and maybe that results inthe customer or client having a

(03:03):
loss of some kind, the, you know, customer or client having a
loss of some kind.
If you're working solely underyour personal social and you're
a sole proprietor, you don'thave that LLC to protect you,
then they could potentially comeafter your personal assets,
right?
So having that LLC in placereally puts a buffer between you
and your personal assets andyour business assets.

(03:24):
So that worst case scenario ifsomeone were to sue you or
something were to go wrong andthey were to pursue you for
damages, all they can reallypursue is your LLC assets.
It creates that protectionarybubble around you.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, exactly.
And then just to bolster yourpoint there, it's like if you
have a business and then let'ssay, personally you own a house
and somebody sues your business,you don't want to lose your
house, you want to protect thoseassets, absolutely yeah.
And then there's obviously sometax implication stuff, um,
reasons behind an LLC.
Um, there's some reasons likepotential, like sale value at

(03:58):
some point, um, and some otherthings that you want to think
about.
When, uh, you're talking aboutbusiness structure, let's also
talk about two, just so theyknow theory around different
types of structures.
I'm with you Nine times out of10, especially small business
folks, they're going to want anLLC.
Let's talk about times thatthey would want to look a little
bit further.
So let's talk about like acorporation, for instance, when

(04:20):
would they want to consider that, in your opinion?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
I think corporations are great.
When someone is thinking abouttaking on investments from
corporate companies, like a VCor private equity, a lot of them
like to see more formalizedstructure within the entity, so
they like to have that board.
They like to have thatseparation between the
shareholders and the decisionmakers which you don't typically

(04:45):
see a whole lot in an LLC.
The people who are members areoften always managers or play a
role in the management of thecompany, and so I think a
corporation is great when youneed to have formalities between
the people who are making thedecisions day to day, separate
from the people who are maybethe investors or the people who

(05:05):
have ownership.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sorry that's so well put and I want to once again,
like I always do, try to bolsterthat point too.
It's like the cutoff, folks, alot of ways is if you have a
couple people involved in thecompany, and LLC is probably the
best way to go If you're goingto get a lot of outside of an
investment.
You know.
That's why tech companies andstuff like that, where they're
fundraising a lot of moneytechnically, usually start like
as a corporation, becausethey're going to have a lot of

(05:28):
uninvolved people like, uh,putting into the business and
there is a threshold on, like,what the LLC can bear for
different investment groups too.
So most of you small businessfolks, just like I am, it's like
you're going to want an LLC,right, you know.

(05:49):
And then complexity ofdocumentation and you know that
sort of stuff it can be morecumbersome.
I don't.
I'm not going to say you darehave to have a lawyer when you
have a corporation, but a lawyerand a CPA is going to be a
really good team I mean it isanyways, but a lot of times
bootstrappers aren't going to beable to afford those things,
and so when you're jumping to acorporation, you know it's like
you kind of want to be at thelevel where you're getting a lot
of investment.
So you have that necessity ofit and the obligations increase
so that you usually want to havea better teammate.

(06:11):
You want to say anything tolike.
Add to that that I missed.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
No, I mean, I think you're right.
Take meetings and minutes andresolutions and have these board
approval processes thatultimately you know someone
who's starting up and a truebootstrapper.
They're only probably going tobe just you know one or two
people and having that formality, most people are just going to

(06:38):
skip right over it, so they'renot going to have all the
corporate documentation thatthey need to back up all the
decisions they made.
So why not just simplify it anddo the LLC and to your point,
the LLC has so much flexibilityin it.
What I love as an attorney, frommy perspective about LLCs, is
that the operating agreement canbe whatever you want.
So, yes, there is a statute inevery state that will govern

(07:02):
your LLC in the absence of anoperating agreement.
But the nice thing is, if youwant to draft around the statute
, you can.
So, yes, you kind of look atthe statute and say that's a
default right, that's what wehave when we have no rules.
But if you want to write yourown rule book, operating
agreement is perfect.
And that's what I love aboutthe LLC.

(07:23):
We always joked like everystate has their own LLC statute
and each state kind of we jokeas, like attorneys will say,
like it's.
The LLC is like the wild westof entity structures, because
you really can do whatever youwant with them.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
And here's the thing, folks if you don't define that
at, like Paloma Saming, then itgoes to default to the state.
But you can have your owndefinitions of it, and if you've
watched this show before, Icall it operating in agreement.
It's an operating agreement oran operating in agreement
Usually.
Um, you want to have one eitheras a as a solopreneur too.
It's a good idea, right?

(07:57):
It's like we've talked aboutthis before.
Let's say, if you need a reason,you know and I like to give you
reasons beyond just say it, doit, cause I said so, you know.
It's like, if you need a reason, why, why would it?
Tyler, if it's operating anagreement, why would I need an
operating agreement to agreewith myself?
Right?
But here's the thing.
Let's say you pass away who,what family member gets to take
over?
What's the rule you know forthat.

(08:19):
Do you want the state stealingyour business from you?
Because that can basicallyhappen, you know.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
It's like, if you don't have anoperating agreement, then it
makes it real gray who thebusiness goes to if you pass.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I mean it forces it through probate, which a lot of
people don't realize.
That could create bungles, like, let's say, the business is
really doing well and then allof a sudden you pass away as an
owner and there isn't thatoperating agreement to say, hey,
my brother or sister is goingto come in and either continue
operating or wind it up.
Probate takes a while.

(08:53):
People don't realize that.
So you know the the businessended up ends up kind of in
limbo where you're waiting forthe court to say, yes, this
person can now go in and controlthe entity on your behalf, when
you could have just had it inthe operating agreement and
there would have been no waitingperiod.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
That easy you know.
So hopefully that talks youinto why you would need an
operating agreement as a singleindividual, and then an
operating agreement for apartnership is a necessity.
It's the rule book, right?
And you know like I'm, I have a50 sheet questionnaire that I'm
working on getting to you guys,um, and it basically goes all
through all these fundamentalthings.
Because it's like, if you studyenough partnerships,

(09:33):
partnerships are usually thedownfall of the business.
They can also be the mosttremendous benefit.
But like a simple example isyou know it's like well, what
hour of a week were we going toboth work and what is considered
a business expense and apersonal expense?
For instance, if your partner'sgoing willy-nilly on every
lunch out there in the world,that's probably going to
frustrate you.
So you probably want to putsomething in the operating

(09:54):
agreement with.
These are the amount of hourswe're both going to work.
This is the rule around a lunch.
Weigh in for me too, like, giveme a couple other rules that we
want to think about in theoperating agreement.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think , division of profit and how
much each partner iscontributing right, because it
can be lopsided oftentimes, withone person being like the
rainmaker, bringing in all thebusiness, and maybe the other
person is doing all the nittygritty, right, they're the
workhorse behind the scenes, andso you don't always.

(10:25):
There are times when someone'snot carrying their weight and
there should be a division inthe agreement, but then there's
other times where someone iscarrying their weight behind the
scenes and maybe they're beingwritten out of their fair share.
Right, it goes both ways.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
And that's.
You know you're saying rightnow well, I'm starting it with
my best friend.
You know it's like you'resaying that back, like I don't
need this agreement and you'redeadly wrong.
You know it's like have a rulebook to follow, have something
to go.
Remember when we talked aboutthis.
That's why I have the 50 sheetquestionnaire too.
By the way, I don't sell it, asyou guys know.
This isn't like a prep to sellyou something, but it like gets

(11:02):
those fundamental little thingsout.
It's like how many hours wereyou supposed to be working a
week?
When do you take vacations?
What's the rule on that?
Like, how much are you going toget paid?
How much am I going to get paid?
What's the idea arounddividends?
You know like when are we goingto have like dividends in the
company?
You know when are we going toreinvest in the company?
You know it's all thesefundamental factors and like
partnerships destroy or improvea business.

(11:23):
You know like daily there is somany case studies on like
partnerships of successfulcompanies that are actually what
derail the company their guarddown when the partner is someone

(11:47):
they care about or they love.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
And, inherently, you cannot imagine a future where
your mom or your sibling or yourbest friend and you hate each
other because of your business.
But I think that that's morecommon than people who go into
business with people that theyhave less knowledge and less
history with because they arenervous about what that future
looks like.
Right, you don't, inherently,you know you go into business

(12:08):
with your parents and you'relike this is going to be great.
We don't need to put all theparameters in there for what
happens when go, when things gowrong.
Right, and so I think that inand of itself, should be a red
flag for anybody going intobusiness with someone that
they're very close with you know, lifetime friends or family.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
that has to be considered when drafting an
operating agreement, you knowand then if you love that person
, it's even more of the reasonto have it because it will
destroy a relationship fasterthan anything I've ever seen
Like.
I've helped hundreds of businesspeople and a lot of times a
partnership becomes, you know,and it's usually a
miscommunication of some sort.
I thought you were going to Xand I thought you were going to
Y, and inevitably inpartnerships too, you see, nine

(12:48):
times out of 10, it's verylopsided.
One person's doing a lot morework than the other one, so,
just like, have rules on if thatlike happens, you know.
And so, um, okay, we beatoperating agreement with a dead
horse.
You have to have it, you know.
Um, operating in agreement,it's basically a rule book, you
know.
So that will can confuse youanymore.
We've talked about businessstructure.
Llc is basically like, let me,let me, let me balance that out

(13:13):
just a little bit too.
I want you to think aboutalmost a new person happening in
the world.
When you open an LLC, an LLCgets something similar.
When you register with the IRSand that's called an EIN right
and EIN into the business, let'ssay it's a person is like the
social security number that iswhat you're going to use for
doing taxes and you know thingsof that nature, and so that

(13:34):
separation, you're almostcreating a new person in the
world and new person becomesthat business.
So that's what an LLC is, folks, and that's we've talked a
little bit about why you want tohave it fairly simple to file.
You know people pay a thousanddollars online.
Please don't pay a thousanddollars online to do an LLC.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
You know, don't use legal zoom.
You don't need to know it.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
It's incredible.
And so you can do it.
I promise you get online, dothe paperwork.
If you want consultant attorney, you know, a couple hundred
bucks probably to get anattorney to do it.
You know I don't like to quotepeople's rates by any means, but
you know, don't pay a thousanddollars online.
It's a very simple process.
You can do it yourself.
You know?
Um, one of the things on therethat confuses people constantly

(14:15):
is member managed, managermanaged, right.
So let's talk about that reallyquick, Cause they're going to
see that and that's wherethey're going to get stuck.
I know because I've helpedenough people with them.
So let's talk about membermanaged.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah.
So I think the main differenceright is member managed means
that all the people who haveownership in the entity can make
decisions together.
Manager managed means thatthere's one or more people, who
may or may not have ownership,that make day-to-day decisions.
Now don't get me wrong.

(14:48):
There are things that should beincluded like manager-managed
entities have to have parametersaround what the manager makes
decisions about.
You don't want to justwholesale give the manager carte
blanche to make importantdecisions.
Common things that are carvedout in the operating agreement
for manager not being able tomake decisions are dissolution

(15:12):
of the entity, changes to theoperating agreement, transfer of
ownership, things that are likebig hit ticket items, and if
you don't have it in there, Ithink you run the risk of
blurring the line of like, whatcan the manager do and not do?
And if it's not written inthere with some specificity, I

(15:33):
think it's open forinterpretation and there could
be some instances where a personwho's a manager but maybe not a
member gets away with too muchpower.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, agreed 100%.
Most of you bootstrappers, mostof you starting a business,
you're going to be a membermanaged LLCs and not manager
managed LLCs, so that takes careof that bucket where most
people get confused.
Um, the other one is stat agent.
Let's talk about stat agent fora second Cause.
That's what really confusespeople and you know what's funny
is a lot of people think statagents like a lawyer it can be a

(16:05):
lawyer, so but I don't want toconfuse you there.
But a lot of people think whenthey have a stat agent, that's
like some sort of like majorbusiness protection.
Um, like I've been with believeit or not, I don't know if
you've heard this before, but alot of people assume that it's
like when you have a stat agent,it's like hiring a lawyer
that's going to protect yourbusiness.
Oh, no, I haven't heard that,yeah, like that is like people
get it so lost on what itactually is.

(16:25):
And, um, before we go too deepinto that, I'm going to tell you
right now you can be the statagent.
Like, when you get on some ofthese big online companies, they
are literally going to scareyou into this and they're going
to tell you you need to pay us$200 a year, you need a stat
agent.
Are you sure you don't want astat agent?
You know, and it's like, so mysuggestion is, if your company's

(16:46):
big enough, you have a Palomabe their stat agent.
Right, you have your lawyer.
That way, like, talk to meabout what a stat agent actually
does, and then I'll give likemore of like my side on it.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting you say that
about people's misperceptionsabout what stat agents do,
because ultimately it's reallyjust something that's published
on the state filing website,right?
So in Arizona that's theArizona Corporation Commission,
For a lot of other states it'sthe Secretary of State, but it's
always published online so thatif anyone has beef with your

(17:20):
company, they can have adesignated person and place with
a mailing address to send theircomplaint or letter or whatever
it may be, and it's commonlymost used in litigation senses
right.
So people are filing a complaintand it's a formal, the FF serve
you that, the complaint and allof that, and the stat agent is

(17:41):
usually what will receiveprocess of that service.
So there's, you know, like youwere saying, you can be your own
stat agent, but the beef withit is that you have to have a
physical address that someonecan literally show up and hand
you a document.
It can't just be a UPS box, andthat's, I think, where people

(18:02):
get confused, because you canhave a UPS box for your
principal address if you reallywant it to be.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's just basically a person that
receives the documentation,folks, and if you have a
business location, you know thatyou're open and available you
can be the stat agent and youcan save yourself a couple
hundred bucks a year.
But the online companies loveto scare you into it, you know,
and they love to tell you thatyou need this and you're going
to be in a lot of trouble if youdon't get it.
You can be your own stat agent.
That's the case in Blanc.

(18:27):
But it's nice to have a lawyerbe your stat agent.
You know, or you know somebodyelse that's going to be around
the office constantly, Right,and so that way, if you get
served because nine times out of10, that's what a stat agent's
you know therefore, is likeyou've gotten something to do
with a legal thing and that'sthe state saying, hey, we need
to get a hold of you, here's thepaperwork, because you're
getting sued, and so it's niceif your lawyer accepts that

(18:49):
stuff, so you can save somemoney at first, but then
eventually, if you want to getdown the road, it's not a bad
idea to have your lawyer take in.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Well, and I would say that, if I would almost say the
market rate, for if you wantedto hire an outside company, not
even your attorney, you justwanted to use a third party $50
is kind of the average that Isee.
It might go up now.
I feel like inflation everyyear increases slightly, but the
companies that are charging acouple hundred dollars.
That's above market.
So there's no reason.

(19:16):
If you do want to hire a thirdparty and it not be an attorney,
$50 is pretty much the goingrate and if you dig around
enough, you should be able tofind one that has that as its
rate.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
You're talking $50 for the year.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
For the year yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
And so like $50 for the year.
It's a no brainer, probably.
Folks you know it's like thatway you keep yourself out of
trouble.
I'll tell a quick story aroundthat, but here's the thing the
online companies will now giveaway free LLC.
Right, and it's mostly so theycan sell you this for hundreds
of dollars.
The other thing is, too, it isabsolutely free to dissolve an
LLC.
Um, I ran across a couplerecently, um, that, uh, when

(19:51):
they contacted one of theseonline entities and say, hey, we
never use the LLC, we want todissolve it, they said, okay,
great, $1,400.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
That's insane.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, so be careful what's free and why they're
doing it.
They're making their money onthe stat agent they're making
money they're counting on.
Unfortunately, folks, a lot ofpeople, set up LLCs and they
never use them.
Right, greatest intention,never uses it.
And, by the way, if you're notgoing to use it, close it down.
Right, you don't want all theimplications of that, but, like
you, don't need to pay $1,400 todissolve it, no, that is insane

(20:23):
and I think that to your point.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
If you're utilizing a third party to, say, form your
entity, you don't have controlover the online filing process.
So, setting aside the desire toterminate an LLC that you're
not using, what if you add apartner, or a partner leaves, or
you need to change theprincipal address of your
business, or the statutory agentneeds to change?

(20:47):
Granted, if you're using athird party, they might be your
statutory agent and so it's easyto just say, hey, you know,
charge me X and change your, youknow stat agent address or
whatever.
But if you don't have controlover your filing with the state,
you inherently have to alwaysgo back to the third party and
pay them essentially ransommoney to make changes to your

(21:09):
LLC.
It's silly and it's unnecessary.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's why it's dangerous.
They're like here, here's afree LLC.
It's not free folks.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
They're after the other stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And what frustrates me about that is that's immoral
and unethical to me, becausethey've acted like something's a
free service and really it'sjust to trick you into buying a
bunch of other BS from them.
You know, and so be carefulwith that.
You know it's, it's worth, it'sso easy to do folks Like, and
if, if you get like, if you putsomething on the paperwork wrong
originally, they'll kick itback to you and tell you how to

(21:37):
correct it Right, they'll tellyou what you did wrong.
You know it's like I guessthat's what's nice about what we
have here.
You know it's like you can comein anytime and we help you file
an LLC for free, a hundredpercent for free.
We help you like I'll print thepaperwork for you, I'll point
you in the right direction.
I have to make sure you file ityourself.
You know I don't do that partfor you, but like that's that's
how easy it is.
And everybody, when they look atit they're like I'm surprised,

(21:59):
it's that me.
Um, like they make it a littlebit more complex than it ever
should be.
You know it's like oh, I needdocument, and I usually remember
the name of the document offthe top of my head.
You need this document becauseyou're doing this and you're
going to be on your own stat,not agent, so then you're doing
this document.
So putting the three documentstogether is probably the hardest

(22:21):
part.
So, like usually when peoplecome in here, we just lay out
all three of those documents andlike, here you go, you know,
and so um, uh, so yeah, so we'vetalked about LLCs really
important um in businessstructure.
Please do that, although, andlike something I want to mention
here too, is like there is nomagic trick to an LLC.
I see these things online Idon't know if you've seen them

(22:41):
where it's like open six LLCsand somehow that becomes a
billion dollar business.
Where it's like open six LLCsand somehow that becomes a
billion dollar business.
No, folks, it's literally justan entity to hold your money
that you potentially do or don'tmake.
You know it's like, or dobusiness through is a better way
to say you know there is nosecret method to why an LLC will
just make you money arbitrarily.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
No, no, and I mean, if you scroll through any social
media now, I feel like the getrich quick schemes are endless,
right?
I see a lot of people come tome with especially in Arizona
investment properties and theywant to move those investment
properties into LLCs.
Right, because they sawsomething online or they read a

(23:23):
blog post that says like, uh-oh,you don't have your Airbnb home
in an LLC, and while there'struth to that, there's also a
lot of limitations to how andwhen you can do that.
And so I feel like you know,you and I are both probably
battling on the regular thesemisconceptions that are getting

(23:44):
downloaded off the internet andpeople just think, oh, you know,
I've got all these Airbnbs, I'mjust going to throw them into
an LLC and, abracadabra, all ofmy problems are solved.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
It's so crazy to me.
And the other thing, folks, isthere is obligations to having
an LLC, you know, and there'stax implications and things like
that.
In every way it's a good idea,you know, but it's not a magic
trick either.
You know, it's like and it'sgood for you know, um,
protections and tax strategy andthat sort of stuff, but it's no
magic trick at the end of theday.
So that's LLCs, that'soperating agreements.

(24:16):
Hopefully we've kind of likedisillusioned those things for
you.
Um, the other thing, when they,before they start and it's a
mistake that I've made, uh, inthe past is like trademark
search, so like, if you're going, I love the name, help me get a
name, paloma, let's.
We're starting a landscapingcompany today, you know.
So let's, let's develop a namefor a landscaping company.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I'm sure it's taken green acres green acres
landscaping.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
So here is and I'm not telling you how to break the
rules.
You know like.
This is my disclosure statement.
You know it's like, but ifgreen anchors never does more
than like 10 bucks in business,chances are real.
Green anchors is never going tocome after you.
I'm not going to say that forsure, because they might.
You know it's like, but youwant to also plan for your
success.
That's something we'd alsodon't do quite often when we're

(25:03):
starting businesses, cause we'rebarely uh, we're being afraid.
We don't know what we're doing.
We don't think like, uh, we'rejust going to open this small
landscaping company.
We don't ever think about whatthe pie in the sky dream, for it
could be Right.
And so, green anchors, we lookat it right and we want that as
in.
Like, we're just going to openthat business.
But here's the stop gate.
You go like what, what do Ineed to do to look at if I

(25:25):
should take green acres on as myname or not?

Speaker 2 (25:27):
I mean, I have no zero cost items that you can do
to make sure that green acres isa good name.
Yeah, google it.
Yep, right, um, at a bareminimum, google it to see who's
in your area, I would.
I would also just Google someother States in the surrounding
areas to see if there's otherstates that might have a claim

(25:47):
to that name.
You can do a free search on theUSPTO, the US Patent and
Trademark Office, and do asearch for the name, see if the
logo is taken on a separatebasis.
I mean, I think in today's world, what matters most is not just
the name and the URL.

(26:08):
People forget that you're goingto also want all the social
names, right?
So maybe you get the URL andyou're like, yes,
greenacreslandscapingcom isavailable, I'm sure it's not.
And then you go on Instagramand it's gone.
And you go on TikTok and it'sgone.
And then all of a sudden yousee and you'll see this from
time to time you'll see peoplewho are influencers didn't think

(26:29):
far enough ahead.
Every single social is adifferent variation and then
it's hard, because how do peopleokay, you have to remember
Instagram isgreenacreslandscaping1 or like
the real greenacreslandscapingor whatever, and so I think the
easier it is for people to findyou, the better.

(26:50):
It is Right.
So you want to pick somethingthat you can literally gobble up
all of the potential visiblethings that are online, to have
unanimous like similarity acrossthe board.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
You know, we uh, we started, uh like this is after I
had a couple of businesses, soI never I knew this.
You know, like we still makemistakes, even as, like business
people progressed.
But um went out there, we uh,um, we decided to open a chain
of custom mattress stores.
Basically like we had a factoryand, uh like, building your
sandwich, you could come in,fill out a sheet of paper, try

(27:24):
out this like bed that we couldcobble together for you and then
you could order it, just likeordering a sandwich.
I want the memory foam, I wantthe pillow top.
You know that sort of stuff.
And then we would yeah, and thenwe would have that that bed
built for you and shipped to you, right.
And so we created this namethat we loved.
Uh, put a lot of money into thewebsite, put a lot of money
into like people don't realize.

(27:51):
It's like a sign for your storeis ridiculously expensive, you
know, like those signs areexpensive, like all the branding
was expensive, all the time andeffort were expensive.
Open the doors, cease anddesist right From a pillow
company, not a mattress company,right, but close enough in a
trademark and springing.
We had no choice but to scrapeverything.
You know, and so do the researchhere too.
And I want to bolster some ofyour points too.
It's like I will.
Actually a name's a hard thingand you should think about it

(28:12):
and you should look at myepisode that I talked to Brain
Glue, james Bond, likeincredible thoughts on marketing
around names.
But names hard, you know.
But if you think about it, it'smarketing gold.
See the episode.
But at the same point, I willgive up the name.
I like um for the domain A lotof times.
If I can have a better domain,if I can have better social

(28:33):
handles.
You know, I've seen it over andover again somebody becomes an
influencer, like you're saying.
I've seen a podcast recently.
Actually the lady had this name.
She never looked at any of thisstuff you know, and then like
she got successful, and that'sthe thing.
They won't hit you usuallyimmediately, like they did with
um, our business.
They'll usually hit you whenyou, when it hurts, where you've
had a lot of success with it,and it's like, hey, you're not

(28:53):
doing anything with this anymore, you know, and they might even
hit you with a lawsuit on that,right.
So you know, like, look intothat stuff, because even a
pillow company can be atrademark infringement versus a
mattress company.
So you have to be kind of likecognizant of that stuff and do
the time around the domain thesocial media handles, like these
are important things, planningyour business's success, right,

(29:14):
and so, um, so I think it's veryviable to look into that stuff.
When you're looking at theUSPTO Did I say it right?
I always say it wrong?
Um, so you'll see that there'sgoing to be the name green
anchors.
But there could be a greenanchor haircare, there could be
a greed anchor.
Uh, give me one um televisioncompany.
You know it's like, so is thata trademark infringement?

(29:36):
And that's where it gets gray.
That's when you start talkingabout like filings, attorney
talk, trademark, trademarkdiscussions, things of that
nature.
So, folks, but bare minimum todo your diligence.
You can go take a peek and ifyou have agreed anchors, that's
somewhere in the realm of lawncare.
It might be a little bitdangerous to seek it, right.
I'm not going to say ever, likewould you say.

(29:57):
I wouldn't say ever.
It's like a direct no, unlessit is a direct landscaping
company or.
But it's like it gets a littlebit more tricky, right, and if
you're not going to spend themoney in that moment, it's
probably not one that I wouldrisk.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I mean, I think so the the part that's
complicated about protectingyour branding is that there's
the federal level, which is theUSPTO, then there's the state
level, which you can, you know,register your trade name with
the state, and then each statehas limitations on LLC names.
So let's say you have an LLCname and it's good to go here,

(30:35):
but then you expand into NewMexico and it's not there.
You know they, they havesomeone with that same name.
You would ultimately have tomost likely if you wanted to
continue to do business in NewMexico file a DBA so that you
weren't super similar, um,because they wouldn't
necessarily allow you to filethe same name as a foreign

(30:57):
registered business.
Obviously, each state isdifferent, but I think it gets,
you know, depending on what yourlong-term goals are and to your
point.
Sometimes you're not thinkingbig enough, right?
You're just starting out.
The thought of being amulti-state business is so far
off in the future that you'recomes what's to say that you
have a plan when you decide toexpand into another state and

(31:32):
you run into these issues withbranding or similar names.
I almost think there's asimilarity there for planning,
you know, people don't talk muchabout getting process and
systems in place early on, right.
You launch a business you knoweven for myself launching my own
practice when things are slow.

(31:54):
You're focused on marketing.
You're focused on getting theword out that you exist, getting
new clients, new customers,building what generates you
revenue.
Right, because that's your only, your sole metric that you're
worried about when you start anew business.
You're like how do I make money?

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
And then, once you start making money, you know
things get busy, and I thinkpeople really underestimate and
myself included that once youstart getting busy, the time
that you would normally havebeen able to spend getting your
you know for lack of a betterword shit together you don't
have it anymore, and so nowyou're trying to fit in.

(32:32):
You know an hour here, an hourthere, working on things that
you could have been working onall along from the get go.
So I think what my, my personaladvice that's not really legal
in nature to startups and smallbusinesses is when things are
slow, absolutely you still haveto focus on the marketing and
the money.
You know revenue generatingtasks, but carve out time every

(32:56):
single week or every single day,depending on how you want to
work on it, and start figuringout what your business is going
to look like when it's busy.
Right, thank you.
Work on your CRM in advance,you know.
Get, get your systems in place,work on automations, work on
all these things that you're notgoing to have time for when you
have success.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
You know.
And then, like it's such adouble-edged sword for me
because, like with bootstrappers, like I want you to have the
bare minimum in, like startupcosts and like looking at a
trademark is just another one ofthose things that's going to
cost you some money up front.
But I also want you to thinkabout it in your success this
way too.
It's like imagine everything Iput a piggy bank over here,
right, and then every time Ihave a customer interaction

(33:38):
that's positive, let's say, Iput a coin in that piggy bank
right.
And like, let's say, I have apiece of marketing content I put
out on social media, I putanother coin.
What I'm saying is you'rebuilding value in your brand,
every discussion, you have everysocial media post, every time
you build your website.
But here's the thing If youdon't have that trademark,
technically that piggy bank issomething you're putting money
into that could be taken, youknow.

(34:00):
And then, like here's the thingtoo.
It's like, let's say, you getdown the road, you do an amazing
job putting money in this piggybank, and then somebody comes
along and they're after thetrademark.
They're coming up behind youand maybe they're even nefarious
.
They're seeing how well you'redoing and like oh, joe Smoe
doesn't have that trademark Nowyou are in, this gets into legal
territory there From my seatand I'm not a lawyer, folks From

(34:22):
my seat I do think you havesome precedence there, being in
business for a long enough time,but still, it's not a fight.
You want to fight right?

Speaker 2 (34:29):
No, I mean there are instances I've seen in my
practice over the years wherepeople don't register.
Yep, someone registers, noteven nefariously right.
That nefariousness does existout there.
But there's another businesssimilar idea goes out, registers
the name and then all of awhere you have a window to

(34:54):
challenge, as like you weresaying, a preexisting business
that's been around, that hasfirst dibs right and that window
closes.

(35:14):
So in some ways the scammers ofthe world can sometimes be
helpful in that they're outthere data mining for you know
you'll get a hundred calls a day.
You know, and so like you mightget a letter and it's, and the
scammer might say you know, hey,we saw.
Somebody is like registeringyour mark.

(35:35):
And 50% of the time, maybe more,it's not true.
And you can go on and you cansearch and you can disprove that
that's happening.
But there's also that like 20to 10%, where they're?
They send you a letter andthey're right and you have a
timeframe to challenge it andyou're like thank you, scammer,
for letting me know, don't hirethem, because you know who knows

(35:57):
what, where that letter camefrom Please be careful with that
.
But at least you now have beentold that you are in this
challenge window and you can dosomething about it yeah,
absolutely.
Or, like I always tell clientsthat are trying to run their
business, bootstrapping it,trying to do it on like the
lowest cost possible, as they'regrowing organically and

(36:18):
reinvesting smartly.
I think that you can always, ifyou know what you're going to
register, just pop on.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Pop on every month just check, make sure no one's
out there registering it Right.
And that way you have peace ofmind that it's still available
without spending the money whenyou're not ready to.
And, worst case scenario, youpop on.
Let's say it's been six months.
You pop on on the sixth monthand you're and you see someone
has registered.
Now you're like okay, it's timeto spend that money because

(36:47):
it's important to my businessand my brand.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
That every time you're putting you know an email
out, you know a website out,that sort of stuff, you're
building value in that brand andso make sure you pay attention
to protecting that Like this.
Whether you know this or not,as new business people, if
you've joined this, it's likethis is super valuable stuff.
It took me years to understandwhat this stuff is right and I'm
sure you see people makemistakes in it every single day.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
I mean I think it's hard because hindsight is 20-20,
right, and so you know you canalways pivot, but does the pivot
hurt?
I mean, here's a good examplefor me personally.
I have no intention at thistime to use an Instagram name
that I used to have Used to haveone.
It was for personal use.

(37:31):
I sat on it for a while,decided ultimately I just didn't
want to use it anymore and Iswitched to something else.
And after that I actually foundthat the URL and it's it's my
name.
So I, like, got the URL and II'm sitting on that URL Cause
maybe at some point in thefuture I'll use it.
And I went back to steal backmy Instagram handle and it was

(37:56):
gone.
And and it's a real personthey're posting, you know,
pictures of their life.
But I was like, oh, like Ishould have kept it, like I, you
know, I just it was one ofthose weird spur of the moment
decisions where I had this ideaabout like doing a travel blog
and I switched my personal tothe name of that, that travel
blog that I was going to start,but never did and so, um, I mean

(38:19):
, at some point I'm sure I couldprobably write you know the
girl and be like hi, you knowwhat name, your price probably.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
But you know like, um , the thing is too.
It's like if you don't getthose donate names and stuff,
like, people will approach it.
They'll go out and buy thembecause they know you would want
that.
And then they'll charge apremium on it, you know, and
it's like I gave myself a hardtime for making the mistake,
having already had businessesbefore in the mattress business,

(38:45):
but, like a well-known story is, Facebook made the same mistake
when they uh transition overyeah.
They didn't double check either.
You know.
It's like I learned that lessona long time ago now, you know.
But it's like even one of thebiggest companies in the world
has made that mistake, and myunderstanding is they had to pay
millions for the name Meta, andso it's another reason.

(39:08):
It's like look at the Metafolks that were out there,
genius move in making sure theywere protected, because look how
much money it amounted to,probably more than their company
had ever made.
I don't remember what thecompany was.
No, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I think one other piece of that is that let's say
you start a business and let'sbe real, the stats on people who
build a new business intosomething that's truly
successful, that lasts for along time, it's not great right,
it's hard yeah.
It's really, it's really hard.
You have a high failure rateand so not to be sort of like

(39:42):
the you know rain cloud in theroom, but if you start a
business and you have a reallygreat name and then you close up
shop because maybe it's notdoing well, don't I always warn
people, don't just give up allof your branding or all of your
names.
Maybe you'll reuse them, right,like?

(40:02):
Look at the.
What happened with my theInstagram handle that I had?
it's gone and inevitably maybethe things that you have, like
meta, could be worth somethingdown the road where you get paid
out because you were sitting onit.
Um, I had someone come to me.
They they were, um, want tocall them like a plant shop, but

(40:25):
they specialized in like cactiand succulents and things like
that and ultimately I didn'twork with them directly.
It was someone that was workingwith them that was a web
designer and they said you know,just out of curiosity, you know
what are your thoughts on, youknow they're, they're retiring,
they want to sell the business,but they don't know the value.

(40:45):
And the value of the businesswas actually pretty nominal
because the plant shop was allvirtual for the most part.
They had, over time, shut downthe plant store that they had
physically, like the nurseryright, so all of their nursery
stuff was actually only open forthem, only open for them

(41:08):
cultivating.
And then they were shippingcacti all over the country and
across the world and it was.
It was interesting to see howmuch revenue was being generated
, based on just the story thatthis web developer was telling
me about, from selling cacti allover the world.
It just blew my mind, but thesepeople had the URL and I'm sure

(41:28):
they still have it, or I hopethey do at this point, cause I
wasn't able to talk with them iscactuscom.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
That's.
That's such a good point, Causesometimes you have something as
simple as that and there's atremendous amount of value to it
so much value yeah.
People don't think about thatstuff enough.
I really you know I I've walkedinto a lot of businesses to
help the people and there's alot of businesses where people
are like Tyler, my business isworth nothing and it's like

(41:55):
that's almost never true.
Your business is almost alwaysworth something, and it could be
the value in the domain name,it could be the value in your
client list, it could be thevalue in your inventory, you
know it.
There's always some sort ofvalue there.
So I would implore you, outthere if you're like over it or
whatever, at least like Palomasaying maybe hang on to the
domain name or like do a littleinvestigating, you know, call a
broker or something like thatand ask them about, like what

(42:17):
you could actually do with thatbusiness instead of just closing
it up and walking away.
So, but like, all the thingswe've talked about today will
help you with that right Havinga, you know, like if it comes to
a Paloma specialty, too ismergers and acquisition stuff,
you know.
And so it's like when it comesto that sale point or that
acquisition or that merger, it'slike how important is it to
have all these ducks lined in arow that we've set up so far?

Speaker 2 (42:39):
No, I mean it's imperative, and I think a lot of
people start businesses withoutthe end in mind.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
And there are ways to structure your startup to be
exit friendly, right.
And so, just like we talkedabout with the idea of thinking,
thinking bigger, thinking aboutyour success in a different way
, Right, it's so hard at first,folks, but please, please, have
the pie in the sky vision.

(43:07):
Yes, Dream bigger, you know.
Think about.
Think about the complexitiesthat you will face when things
are really rolling.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Um, and I think one of the biggest takeaways that
you can have as a startup isthat when you sign contracts
with your vendors or with your,let's say, your lease like
anything that's a big contract,that's even with your clients or
customers there are there'slanguage that you can put into
those contracts that make iteasier for you to change

(43:39):
ownership later on.
And you see it quite frequentlyin the SaaS industries, where
people are maybe collecting datathey're not necessarily selling
the data, but if you don'tinherently have language in your
documents that that data can betransferred on sale, where's
some of the value that you havefrom your SaaS company?

(44:00):
Right, think there are ways toplan and prepare that might seem
foolish, just like this youknow, thinking about what
happens when you have sixemployees and you know you've
got all these complexities thatyou wouldn't have ever dreamed
about when it was just you in agarage somewhere, right, um?
so I think that there are waysto plan for future exit that

(44:23):
should be baked in from day one.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
And a lot of it's easy.
It's kind of like you know, um,I mean, how excited is somebody
to get into their new businessor their new you know building
or whatever, and they'll kind oflike they'll sign whatever you
know to get that done becausethey're so excited about it.
So like when you're in thatwhatever phase, you know like of
excitement phase, like do thosethings smart.
You know like, enter intoleases smart, analyze the lease

(44:47):
for your success.
Don't just get so excited aboutit.
You know, enter into contractssmart.
And the other thing I want toum, implore you to is, like your
clients, for the most part, aregoing to have no problem
signing a client when they're acontract, when they're excited
you're you've just sold them,whatever X is and the amount of
valuation that increases yourbusiness.
You know, when you have thosesecure contracts like talk about
that for a second too likefundamentally laying out proper

(45:10):
paperwork, like we're talkingabout, and then like how that
values when somebody goes tosell their business.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I think, inherently right.
People want to be able to saythis business has, let's say,
the business on paper is worth amillion dollars.
How do you, how do you makesure that that valuation is
accurate?
Yep, you see a lot ofbusinesses that do handshake
deals or things are sort ofrudimentary in terms of

(45:36):
paperwork, or maybe it's ainvoice instead of an actual
contract.
Buyers don't want that, buyerswant to have this.
You know, here's a full list ofall of our customers, clients,
vendors, all of our importantcontracts here it is all on
paper, to verify that everythingwe're telling you financially
is true and accurate and peoplecan't just walk away tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
You know, what's so funny too is like you won't
believe this, but I've seen thismultiple times in business.
Clients will get excited whenyou hand them a proposal or a
contract, because then it likeshows that you've got your stuff
together right.
It's a little bit leery, youknow.
You're out there saying that,like whoa Tyler, it's going to
be hard for them to sign thecontent.
No, it's not.
They actually prefer it,because if you go up and just
shake their hand and say, yeah,like they'll tell you all the

(46:21):
things I mean, here's a goodexample.
Maybe you ever worry and don'tget me wrong, there's some
genius waiters out there but doyou ever worry when the waiter
never puts anything down on thepiece of paper?
You know what I mean.
That's what your client's doing.
You might be a genius and youmight be able to remember the
order per beta, but they wouldmuch rather have you have a
scope of work and sign off ontoit, and that will save you so
many heartaches, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Well, and I like your analogy because we we worry
about it because we've had somany waiters not write it down
and get it wrong.
So same concept, right whenit's not written down and you're
doing business with someone youstart to have doubts about.
Well, are we really on the samepage, and am I going to get
what?
I bargained for.
I think you made a really solidpoint, which is that it's

(47:03):
interesting.
There are a lot of smallbusiness owners that worry about
having people sign contractsand they're intimidated by this
idea that they're going to havepeople read something that's
maybe more than one page andthey're going to say no because
of it, or they'll turn down thework or whatever it is.
And I can tell you withcertainty that's just not true.

(47:26):
And and if you're worried abouthaving a contract that's
intimidating, there are ways tostructure it to make it sound
more natural, to have it be morehumanized, that it's less
intimidating, right?
You don't have to have all ofthe legalese in there.
There's ways to format it.
I mean, I've taken, you know,in businesses where people are

(47:48):
worried about this as a keyfunction, or they've had people
look at it and say I reallydon't want to read this, you
know we've taken that contractand simplified it to the point
where people can't really claimthat they don't understand it
anymore.
And and it went over really well.
It still has all theprotections granted.
You know, I have to tell peoplehey, if we need three pages,

(48:10):
three pages, is it right?

Speaker 1 (48:11):
You know, and I've been in business now for about
15 years, 13, I don't know, 15years and uh, had contracts in
my businesses and I've can thinkof one time in all of history
that somebody balked at thecontract.
And you know like I'll actuallytell the story really quick.
But you know, it's likesomebody came in, refused to
sign the contract and so startsscreaming at the receptionist,

(48:35):
who's being really polite, justasking him to go over the scope
of work and give a signature,and he's like I'm not, I'm out
of time, I can't do this.
You know it's like.
And so I went in and I said,hey, you need to sign the
contract.
And he's like I'm not going tosign the contract.
You know I'm dropping off, like, and I should have been out of
here minutes, moments ago, orwhatever.
And I said well, I'm sorry,we'll be turning down your work
today.
And he said you're going toturn down thousands and

(48:58):
thousands of dollars.
And I was like yes, we are.
And here's the thing, folks, aperson that will not sign your
contract and is already beingrude to the receptionist.
Not only do you have the brain.
Your employees are so importantthat they have, you know, a
good mindset and that is goingto mess them up for the day,
especially if you're not helpingthem.
Right, you know like that is soimportant.

(49:20):
If your employees are in a goodmood, they'll treat your
customers while your businesswill do well, and I can tell you
right now that was the beststop gate ever.
You know, that guy not wantingto do the paperwork was a
beautiful gift because guesswhat, the second I sign on to
doing that work, now that guy'smy problem, right, and when he
wants to be every bit of a jerkwith the work you know which I
promise you is going to happenyou'll wish a million times you

(49:42):
didn't have that guy, you knowas a client and so like it's
another stop gate If they're notwilling to sign your paperwork
and be a reasonable human andshow that like hey, we list
things out here, so we don't get.
This is a customer service too,to do paperwork.
We're not just trying toremember your order, you know,
we're showing you what it is.
You know it's like that's aclient you don't need.
There are certain clients inthe world, folks, that you're

(50:02):
better off letting them go downthe street.
And if you have things likeyour paperwork, that's going to
stop somebody.
If they're being a prick aboutthe paperwork, they're going to
be a prick about the work.
But then the thing is you ownthem.
Now, the second time you, thesecond you do their work, they
can sue you.
Another reason to have your LLCyou know you allow that.
Non, that guy didn't sign yourpaperwork.
Something goes on he says youshould have done so-and-so.

(50:23):
You know now they're suing you,but at least they'll sue your
LLC and won't take your house.
That's a culmination of ourentire discussion so far.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
No, I could not agree more.
I mean, it's hard, I think, toparlay off of what you were
saying when you're starting outand you're desperate to bring
revenue into your business it isso easy to turn a blind eye to
that little feeling in your gutthat says this guy isn't right,
or this person is just beingover the top, or you know, can't

(50:54):
, can't please them any whichway, right?
So I implore you, as much as itseems like the wrong decision,
to turn down revenue and in mostcases, like you said, like you
know, they're going to throw itin your face and maybe make you
doubt it.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
There's there's red flags in relationships.
There's red flags in customerand client relationships.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
It's the hardest thing.
And you know like, um, it'sfunny that to me it's like
everybody in business is like oh, my really rich client, with
all this money, you know, andthings like that, and that's
what everybody wants is thereally rich client.
You know it's like, but if youget the really rich miser client
, this is the worst customer tohave ever.
They're going to nickel anddime you.
They're used to doing this inlife getting things for nothing,

(51:36):
you know.
And what's funny to me isyou'll avoid your middle class
client and that's the one that'sout there sending seven people
in the door.
It's like don't get caught upin the rich miser client, let
them go down the street.
I'm serious and I'm not sayingall rich people are like that,
but I'm saying you'll know theones right.
You know the nickel and dime,the Scrooge client.
There are those Scrooge clientsand they're.

(51:56):
They're after you for gettingeverything free.
You'll see them because they'reyelling at the hotel clerk to
get a free room.
They just came up withsomething arbitrarily, like the
banana was ripe in the room.
You know like they need a freeroom.
They'll do this to yourbusiness too, I promise you.
And what's funny about this isyou're avoiding those beautiful
people that are sending 10people in their door that maybe
aren't as rich as't have the redflag at the outset of the

(52:18):
relationship and maybe it's, youknow, a wolf in disguise and

(52:40):
that person ends up being aterrible individual to work with
.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
That.
That contract is really whatwill protect you from you know,
deliverables that you neveragreed to right.
All of a sudden they're like hey, you were supposed to do X, y
or Z and you're like I neveragreed to any of that, that
wasn't part of our pricing, thatwasn't something we agreed to
do.
I think an easy example andit's not universal, but for

(53:06):
people who do web design orsomething that's creative, like
people who do paintings orsomething like that having a
contract, even if it's short,that says you get X number of
changes before I start billingyou for changes because
inherently it's creative innature.
So what you think looks great,they may not think looks great.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Well, and then you can under promise, over deliver
too.
So let's say you, you will domore changes than that.
Now you look like a hero and Itry to get people to understand
that all the time.
I uh I'm going to make thisstory really quick to to bolster
this point as well.
So I was at the olive gardenand I was having a meal there
and, um, I got the tour of Italy, right, and then I like wanted

(53:48):
chicken on the Fadacini Alfredo,and the very nice guy said, hey
, you know, like that's going tobe an upcharge because it does
not generally included.
It's like totally intuitive tome, right, I realize I'm going
to have to pay more for thechicken, but what's interesting
is like now, let's say, thelandscaper, right, and this
happens all the time in smallbusiness.
You have a scope of work.
You go out to do said scope ofwork and the client happens to

(54:16):
go hey, why don't you trim thatbush on your way out the door?
And the second that bush endsup on their invoice, all of a
sudden they got a problem withit, and that's what's so
interesting.
That's why you want to scope ofwork and paperwork, because the
second they make those changeorders, you know, to the scope
of work you need to be adding on.
And what's funny to me is it'sso intuitive to us at Olive
Garden.
You know in a big business that, like, I'm going to be charged
X for chicken.
But why is it never intuitive inthe small business world?
It's like, hey, you just askedfor 45 changes.

(54:38):
That costs money.
You just asked for a new bushor a tree.
That costs money.
You asked for a new wall.
Like, hey, why don't you justdo this on your way out?
The door is extra money.
So I have changeovers, havescopes of work, you know.
And so that actually like folks,whether you believe it or not,
maybe we're having a little bitof a, a paperwork.
Uh, you know, like legaldiscussion about that same time.

(55:00):
Like I wish I could give you mybrain for a minute and Palomas
and like show you how manypitfalls that you can avoid.
Like business is stressfulenough.
If you'll do some of the stuffwe're talking about today,
having these productions, youknow like you'll be like man,
I'm glad I had that.
I'm glad I separated my LC.
Oh man, I'm so glad you know Idid stuff with my trademark.
You know it's like cause.

(55:20):
Look at what my business grewto be, man.
You know, now I have this scopeof paperwork and now, like this
guy sued me because I didn't dosomething, but now I have the
magic ticket.
You know, it's like like thatstuff believe it or not, folks
is so invaluable.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I think your olive garden story actually hits home
almost like a complimentarypoint, which is that it's easy,
right, Like you said, in smallbusiness, to get lost in this
fact that, like when you ask formore it's not just freebies,
it's stuff that you know.
If your time is by the hour andsomeone asks for more, it

(55:54):
should inherently increase theoverall bill.
But what you were saying islike, okay, you want chicken on
the fettuccine and the guy'slike that's going to be an
upcharge and you approve it.
That, I think right, there is,is one of the other lessons that
can be taken from your story,which is that if someone asks
you to do more don't just do itand assume that they're on the

(56:16):
same page, that the invoice isinherently going to be increased
by whatever the rate is thatyou discussed.
Be up front and say, hey, I'mhappy to trim the bush on the
way out, but I trim bushes at.
You know, 20 bucks a bush.
So are you okay with the $20added to the invoice?
And they get to say yes or no.
Right, and if they inherentlynever wanted to pay for it,

(56:36):
they're probably going to say noand that's okay.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
You're, you're so right, and that's why a change
order official document aroundthose like lines is like
imperative, because you're right, it should be a double
agreement there.
Right, you shouldn't beobligated to something that is
going to cost more money.
But also, they shouldn't beobligated to something they
didn't know was going to becharged more for.
Yeah, so and like believe it ornot, folks, that sounds so
simplistic to some of you, butit's like, it's a big deal.

(57:00):
I've seen it, you know, inbusinesses over and over again.
You probably worked in legalmatters that are something as
silly as that over and overagain.
It is so nice.
How, how nice is it when youhave the like what do I want to
say?
Like the smoking gun, like tohelp you with like a case?

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Oh, I mean it's, it's wonderful, right, you?
I think it's.
I'll use an example.
Um, there, you know, I wasworking with a business that had
their sole sort of purpose wasto provide kitchen equipment to
various restaurants, and theywere working off of invoices.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
And they had a sort of language in there that was
loosey-goosey around maintenanceand you know, this is sort of
an area where you look at it andyou say, this is sort of an
area where you look at it andyou say if only the language

(57:59):
said X or if only it was alittle more clear about what
your obligations were, Becauseinherently, there were
restaurants that were failing todo their maintenance and so the
equipment would break down, andpart of the contract was when
there was a repair or abreakdown, they would come out
and they would service it.
When there was a repair or abreakdown, they would come out
and they would service it.
Well, it ended up becoming thisnever ending service situation,
where they weren't the machinesweren't faulty, it was that
they weren't doing the requiredmaintenance which was creating

(58:21):
all these breakdowns.
And so I think it's a goodexample of how you know, if the
contract had just been a littlebit clearer, to say, hey, we're
going to give you this workbookor this download or whatever.
However, you're going to givethe information to that customer
that says you need to do X, yor Z to maintain this equipment.

(58:45):
And if you fail to do that andwe come out and we do
maintenance and find out it'sbecause you haven't done the
maintenance.
We have the opportunity to takeour machines back Because at
some point.
This is just costing us moneyand you're not doing your fair
share right.
But the contract didn't saythat.
So I feel like the overarchingtheme is anything that you would

(59:09):
expect from your client orcustomer needs to be outlined.
But then, vice versa, you'regoing to outline all the
responsibilities that you'veagreed to take over and when you
have the two really well put,when things happen like failure
to maintain equipment, you gothen point to the contract and

(59:30):
say, hey, section 7.6 says youfailed to maintain.
And we've been here multipletimes and turns out, you know,
the ice cream machine isn'tworking because you haven't
cleaned it ever and we'vedecided we're going to end our
contract with you, you know youknow like I'm going to bolster
this point again because I thinkit's so valid.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
And then you have the option to be the hero.
You know it's like.
Otherwise, if you just go outthere, fix the ice cream machine
, they'll think that was justpart of what you do, you know,
and it wasn't part of what youdo, you were going above and
beyond.
So if you have that in yourcontract and you go, hey, you
didn't maintenance the ice creammachine, we're going to fix it
anyways.
Now you're a hero, right,that's another reason to have it

(01:00:09):
in there, you know, becauseeven if you are going to do it,
then you can be heroic or youcan just be the bare minimum.
You know and that's another wayto get really good customer
loyalty is having thatdocumentation that like, hey, we
don't fix this stuff, but guesswhat?
This time we're going to fix itfor you, you know, but next
time you need to maintain theequipment or you can hold them
to the line, I'm sorry, you know.
Like, here's the document.
You signed it.

(01:00:30):
You know which.
Either your strategy is inbusiness, you know, and so um,
so it can be such a goodcustomer service tool too.
You know it's an under promise,over deliver thing.
You know, and that's one of mykey components in business, is
experience obvious, or thecustomer experience?
What are they going through?
But this is part of it, right,having good paperwork, believe

(01:00:51):
it or not, is a good customerexperience.
And so we kind of started out inLLCs and we talked about
operating agreements, you know,which are super important
operating in agreement folks.
And then we talked abouttrademarks, we talked about
paperwork, fundamental firstaspects, with your, your first
couple of months of business.
What did we miss?
I should know, because I wrote21 steps to starting a business,

(01:01:14):
but I I don't look at themevery day, you know.
And so, um, uh, and we talkedabout domains and we talked
about names.
Um, I think that's fundamentalfirst aspect of what I want
people to be thinking about, youknow, like when they first
start this stuff out, I meanthen we could get off and like
we'll have to bring you back andwe'll talk about employment
contracts and like the nextlevel stuff per se, because this

(01:01:37):
, in my mind, is level one,right, and then we go to a next
level which, folks, that's thehardest level, is the next one.
It's like when you're startdealing with employees, growth.
You know that when you actuallyhave something, you know, it's
like I was talking to a friendthe other day and they're like
if you have success to a certainamount, plan on being sued,
it's just going to happen.
You get enough employees, youget enough going on with the

(01:01:58):
name in your business.
It's going to happen, no matterwhat kind of human being you
are.
Some people out there will besued a lot more because they're
awful creatures.
But good people too, get sued.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Absolutely.
But good people too get suedAbsolutely.
No, I think I could not agreemore with the idea that stage
one seems like a lot and itseems over.
There's so many steps, it'scumbersome.
People seemed overwhelmed,right, but stage two, whole

(01:02:31):
nother ball game.
And, and you know, only whenyou're at stage two can you look
back at stage one and be like,well, that wasn't so bad, yeah,
uh yeah, the paperwork, coopsand stuff like that after you
get.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
That's why it's like one of my passions to make that
part easier, right, and to helppeople with the pitfalls and to
help them with the nefariousonline sources that are charging
all kinds of money.
The average business start cost, you know what it is, $4,000.
That's it.
There is not a better way onthe planet.
I don't care what investmentyou're talking about, I don't
know.
I don't care what propertypurchase you're talking about.

(01:03:02):
There is no better investmentin the planet than a small
business.
And the 90% failure rate I'mtelling you right now from
helping thousands of people, youknow it's mostly because they
choose the wrong dream and theyquit, and the choosing the wrong
dream made them quit, right.
So and then, like that's why Ilike making this stuff easier.
You know it's like choose theright dream, choose the right

(01:03:22):
business, do some fundamentalpre-work, you know, do these
simple things that we're talkingabout for protections, and like
peace of mind and that sort ofstuff.
You will get to the next step.
I can almost guarantee it Ifthey do this like pre-work.
And I've actually folks, I'mworking.
I don't know if you know thatI'm working on this.
I have developed a smallerversion of the business plan
that actually outputs if yourbusiness should be proceeded on

(01:03:45):
or not in its current form it'sbasically a check and balance
system, um, based on a.
I know my folks out there.
I would love you to write an 85page business plan, you know,
but I know you're not going todo it.
So I have a one page worksheetthat you fill in.
If it doesn't check out at thebottom, you got to go revamp
something I like, bolst this.
But I believe I can save thebills business failure rate by

(01:04:06):
at least 50% if they'd fill outthe sheet before starting the
business.
And now, if we add on thesefundamental aspects that we
talked about today, that a lotof people have pitfalls in like
success rate keeps going up.
Right, there is things that youcan do to be more ready to have
success in business.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Well, I think the business plan in some ways is a
goal in writing down or anexercise on writing down your
goals.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
So and people look at it like this weird work,
homework, assignment whereyou're writing stuff down that
you're like, I already have itin my mind.
But how many times have welearned through you know, all
the influencers, all thescientists, all of the people
that you know talk about goalsetting, that you have to write
it down.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Absolutely.
It helps you analyze thepitfalls.
And then the big mistake peoplemake with it is they do it now
for investors.
Don't do it for the fuckinginvestors, do it for yourself.
And then, when you happen toget to use it for the investors,
for your pitch deck or whatever, then great, but do it for your
own analysis.
I say the same thing about yourbooks.
People will only, especially atfirst, do the books for the IRS

(01:05:17):
.
Don't do the books for thefucking IRS.
Do the books for you.
And then you happen to be ableto make it easier to pay the IRS
, right, you know it's likethose tools are for you, you
know.
And then, like you happen to beable to the bonuses, you happen
to be able to use them for whatyou're supposed to use them for
, right, you know, or could usethem for, you know it's like
absolutely Well and a lot of thethings you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
you can be used for metrics.
You know KPIs.
Everybody talks about KPIs nowand, like I, what does the KPI
even stand for?
I know what it means.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Key performance indicators.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
I mean, what's crazy to me is that even you know KPIs
is like this corporate lingothat like got like dribbled down
from these giant companies but,like it's true, kpis can be
stuff that's not even you're nottracking it in the traditional
sense, let's say.
I mean, a good example is when Iwas in law school, I actually

(01:06:07):
took a class that was aboutstarting your own law firm,
because it was something thatalways interested me and part of
our homework for that class wasto write a business plan, and
it was the long kind, the kindthat was laborious, and you
hated it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Oh, Glabe's 85 pages.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yeah, so you know and you know what.
I did it because it was part ofour class.
But what's incredible is, likea year ago I found it in all of
my paperwork and I hadn't readit since then and I was reading
through it and I was thinking tomyself.
Somewhere my subconscious musthave stored a whole bunch of the
stuff that I wrote in there,because I literally have been

(01:06:46):
following my own business planto a T it's, it's important it
just it's an exercise really iswhat it should be.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
But, like I said, most people do it now.
99% of people do it for otherpeople.
They do it because they'retrying to raise investment or
because their grandpa told themthey should have it, and then
they'll give them 20 grand tostart the business.
You know, it's like you do itas an exercise for you and you
happen to be able to use it forthat stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Yeah, oh.
And then you can reflect likeone of the things that I did was
coming from the idea of KPIs Ilooked at I was like, okay, here
were my ideas, you know 10years, 10, 11 years ago.
And here's what I've done.
It's not perfect, but I got tosee what worked right.
What worked, what comparativelylike in the business versus on

(01:07:28):
paper, and then also got to seesort of almost like looking back
in time and saying, okay,here's things that I need to
think about further or developfurther right, things that might
be working, that were just arandom bullet point that could
be extrapolated into somethingthat maybe grows even more
business than you ever thoughtpossible.

(01:07:49):
So I do think you know as aslame as it sounds, kpis can be
found everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Oh, absolutely, and I like I kind of bolster KPI is
reward systems.
So, like the world is built onreward systems.
You know it's like you look atbig companies that have the
reward systems drawn up wrongfor the CEO.
Look at what they do with thecompany.
Right, they'll do what's bestfor their pocketbook and not
necessarily for their companyquite often.
So KPIs, reward systems, thesame thing you want to have,

(01:08:16):
like those situations set up ina way that is conducive to the
success of yourself, yourbusiness.
You know it's like you couldhave a KPI all day long that
says you know like, um, we getyou know how many views on
Instagram.
You know it's like, but ifthere's not a KPI in there, it's
like what that actual willconvert to.
Right, then like, should itconvert to a product?

(01:08:38):
Should it convert to awareness?
Should it convert to?
You know it's like the.
Then it's a KPI for nothing,right, it's a vanity KPI.
So there's a better way todescribe it.
Make sure you're not justpushing in on vanity KPIs.
Real reward system backed KPIsand most KPIs in small business
should be in some way connectedto the P&L.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
So I think it's important because when I was
first starting my practice and Iknow a lot of small businesses
feel the same way if you had tosay what are like some five KPIs
that a small business that'sjust starting could start
tracking If you could come upwith a few.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
You know, like I'm a big fan of like really embracing
your numbers right and so likeand really analyzing that
through your profit and losssheet, and so it depends on the
business too what I wouldsuggest there.
But overall, like, everythinghas to make sense in the P and L
.
So I'm less about KPIs and moreabout the P and L Right, and

(01:09:37):
I'm more in assessing andproperly breaking down data in a
way that you can understandwhat your business is and so,
like I actually don't spend alot of time with small business
people on KPIs.
You know it's like, and youknow that's where I kind of like
disagree with the big businessworld because I want it all to
hit in your bottom line.
You know I want you to haveyour cost of goods aligned to

(01:09:58):
your actual revenue stream, yoursales stream.
You know, and I want you to beable to see that data in that
bucket.
You know what that's actuallymaking in your business.
Now you can tie that back to toyour marketing right and can
tie that back to to yourmarketing Right and so like,
let's say, I have a cost ofgoods for Snickers bars, right.
I properly bucket, did that inmy books and now I have a
revenue line for my Snickersbars.
Now I can come over and I cansee that month how much I made

(01:10:21):
on Snickers bars.
But guess what I also happenedto do that month I ran a
Facebook campaign for Snickersbars, right.
Specifically, how did thataffect the bottom line in the
PNL that month versus the monthI didn't, right, and there's
other ways to analyze that.
You could say KPIs on like ohso we ran that campaign right On
Snicker bar on Facebook.
We got this many views and forthat many views we got this many

(01:10:44):
clicks and for this many clickswe got this many sales, right,
you know, we could study eachone of those KPIs and we could
say those many views laid tothis many clicks.
So we want to get more views,more clicks.
You know that sort of stuff.
But ultimately, what are weafter?
More sales of candy bars, right, more Snickers bars was what
our goal was there, and sothat's why I think it's more

(01:11:04):
important to analyze thefinancial data and then build
your KPIs backwards.
So if I like the longest waypossible to answer your question
, it would have to do with whatspecifically we were talking
about.
I don't think there's five rawKPIs that you could just throw
out of business.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
I think on a service business that's not doing online
sales right.
Because online sales, example,is great, but also, like for
someone that's, you know, use itas a knowledge worker.
That's.
That's pretty out there, unlessyou're doing like you know,
influencer style, you knowwebinar stuff, where you are
running ads inherently.
Yeah, one thing that I think istime consuming but and I it's

(01:11:44):
kind of a loose KPI, right it'sit's not really KPI in the
traditional sense, but trackingwhere your referrals are coming
from and tracking where thosereferrals were made.
So it all connects back to sortof in my world, right, you go

(01:12:04):
to a networking event, you meetfive new people.
Those five new people go tocoffee or lunch with you and
then, let's say, six months fromnow, you've gotten referrals
over time and you're trackingwhere those referrals are coming
from.
Maybe you find out what throughthat, right, you're not going to
necessarily be able to crunchthe numbers on that, but at

(01:12:25):
least you can look back on youryear and say, okay, I met
so-and-so at X event and I alsomet four other people from that
same event and those people haveall been referring to me and
maybe that's an event or a groupor an organization that I
should double down my time on,right, and then you look at

(01:12:46):
other groups that maybe you wentto every event and you've got
nothing out of it.
You can at least feel confidentthat that's time that you could
claw back and spend elsewhere.
So it's more like a review onlike how good your time usage
has been over the course of ayear.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I totally agree and it's a great way to look at it.
The worry that I have with KPIstoo is they get so linear and
focused that, like now, let'ssay in your example just humor
me for a second Like you've donea really good job, you found
out which networking group isyou know.
Like you've, uh, you'veassessed those people on how
many times you had to go tocoffee and then like how many
times that led into like actualincome, right.

(01:13:26):
But what if you were chargingthe wrong rates?
Right.
So now you've KPI really wellin what's getting you more
clients.
But you also have to thinkabout, like, did I actually make
money, money off of thoseclients?
Right.
And so that's where I worry withsmall business people is
they'll get so worried andhyper-focused on this KPI.
They'll pay attention becausewhat, what gets paid attention

(01:13:47):
to gross?
There's no doubt about that,and that's why I always go back
to the P&L, because I want thempaying the most attention to the
P&L.
You know it's like becausethat's where the value in the
business truly is right.
It doesn't matter how manytimes we go to coffee overall,
unless it's impacting the P&L ina positive way.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Well, I was thinking you could be going to coffee and
find out that all the coffee isjust costing you money in the
P&L.
There's nothing coming from it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
You totally, could you know, and so.
But time usage is also anotherlike opportunity cost.
Like the second I've learnedabout opportunity cost in life,
you know, is like that's a bigdeal.
You know, it's like if yourtime is valued at $350 an hour,
theoretically anything you'redoing outside of that $350 an
hour that's worth less money.
Let's say you're cleaning yourhouse, which could be hired out

(01:14:32):
to $20 an hour.
Your opportunity cost isactually $320 an hour.
You're better off sitting inyour office and making the three
20 an hour.
Now I always tell people toothere's an X factor to that too.
You know, I still do my ownlandscaping.
We talked about that thismorning.
You know, is that worth my time?
Right?
Tyler values higher than hecould hire a landscape to do.
But then there's a mental KPIas well, you know, and so like

(01:14:55):
those are kind of the thingsthat like really help set
business apart, is like, andthat's way too.
When you're like, especiallywhen you're first starting in
business and you're the onlyperson, it's like, the first
thing you should start doing isanalyzing the jobs that you're
doing that aren't worth the ratethat you're worth, and those
are the things that have to gethired out.
Great example is the landscaper.
If you're hanging out aroundyour business and you're so busy

(01:15:18):
you're thinking you need tohire somebody else Like the
first thing you do is you starttaking things off your plate
that are worth a lot less thanwhat your opportunity cost value
system is right.
Usually, for most people that'spretty easy to assess too with.
With a lawyer it's super easy.
It's like you know what youbill out at right.
It's like that is youropportunity cost.
Anything else you're doingoutside of that you know like is

(01:15:38):
not valuable.
You need to do more of thatthing that you know unless, for
instance, my X factor.
Nobody involves the X factor.
That's why I always do, becausethe landscaping is good for my
soul.
It makes me feel like Iaccomplished something.
You know it's like that is morevaluable to me than the time
that I'm losing in money, right,and so you do want to assess
those things too.
Or let's say you love doingyour marketing in your business.

(01:15:59):
You like that's your favoritepart of your business.
I'd still say do a little ofyour marketing.
You know it's like, even ifthat's hired out at a lesser
rate usually, you know like youalso have to love and passion
for the things that you do inthe business.
That's why you can't justalways use math or a KPI either.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Absolutely yeah, for sure.
Well, the passion is whatdrives you forward.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
I mean, inherently as a newbusiness owner, you're going to
find things that you love aboutrunning and operating your own
business and you're going tofind things that you absolutely
hate, and some of it will bebecause you're a numbers person.
And some of it is going to bebecause you're a words person.
And some of it is because youwork worse and not a marketer,

(01:16:42):
or vice versa.
You're the marketer and youdon't want to be chained to your
desk doing all the work, and soI think only once you're in the
, in the, you know trenches andoperating, or do you get to see
sort of more about your, learnmore about yourself in many ways
.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
People can be surprised by what they actually
embrace too.
It's like when I first startedin business, you could have
never convinced me that I wouldbecome, like, so passionate for
accounting.
You know, never convinced me ofthat.
You know it's not like Istarted out as an accountant.
You know it's like.
But then, like, once I realized, like I love data right, I love
data to make good decisionswith.
And once I realized, the more Ifocused on my accounting aspect

(01:17:19):
, the better the data got tomake decisions, it was like
having a crystal ball, finally away to make decisions that were
educated, you know, outside of.
Like reaching through thehallway trying to find something
in the dark.
You know now, all of a sudden,you had legitimate data backing
it up.
So, also, like, I guess afundamental aspect in starting
is like I think this is mypersonal opinion, you know, like

(01:17:41):
everybody says there, we havethis big theme on the internet
these days and my show is theantithesis of what's on the
internet.
You folks know that already.
You know it's like they alwayssay if you're working in your
business, you're doing it wrong.
Fuck that, not possible.
Because, number one, if you'restarting from nothing, you're a
bootstrapper.
Impossible not to work in yourbusiness.
Oh, I don't have any money andI don't have a team and I have

(01:18:02):
nothing, but I'm not going towork in my business.
You're going to work in yourbusiness, and not only that, but
it's like I make this point allthe time when I took my MBA.
They don't teach me how to bethe biggest world's financial
genius.
They don't teach me how to bethe best marketer in the world.
What they do is they teach me alot of these different things
on fundamental levels so I canmanage them, and that's what I
would implore you in your ownbusiness too.

(01:18:23):
For a lot of reasons, it's likeI want you to know enough to be
dangerous in all these things,and the reason I want that for
you is worst case scenario.
You can manage it.
Later on You'll know ifsomebody's ripping you off.
I had this guy that was alandscaper on the show and he
built from one lawnmower all theway up to a $10 million
business, sold that company andthen he started a tech company

(01:18:44):
and he wanted to.
They're kind of like the Uberof lawn care.
You can order up like lawnpeople to come to your house,
you know, and so, and what hestarted with.
What's what everybodyfundamentally thinks you should
do?
Like you hire out thetechnology because that's what
you're good at.
He got robbed, completely spentall this money, nothing to show
for it and that's what I get.
All the time is like you needto know enough to manage it

(01:19:05):
Right and by getting involved inyour books, getting involved in
your marketing early on,getting involved in all these
things.
There's nefarious creatures thatdwell in marketing, that dwell
in your accounting, that dwellin your website production.
Be able to know whether they'rerobbing you or not or making
impact.
I see it every single day.
We're in the hire outgeneration.
I applaud people for thatbecause, yes, opportunity costs,

(01:19:26):
but at first, know enough to bedangerous or you will get
robbed.
That's what's going on in thecurrent business environment.
You know that is literally it'sbad consultants that are
running the show these days andthat's what's destroying
businesses more than anything Isee.
So know it enough to bedangerous and at the same time,
you never know what you're goingto love and embrace.
You know it's like.
No, I'm no good at accounting.
Try it.

(01:19:47):
I promise you it's easier thanyou think.
And then, once you have thatdata to run your business
successfully, you'll love it.
So I think we've given themenough today.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
You got any final words for people?

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I think, uh, you know , at the end of the day, don't
let anyone deter you fromstarting a business, because the
first thing you'll do is beexcited and tell everyone you
know and love that you're goingto start a business in whatever
industry, you're doing whatever.
And people are going to benaysayers and I would say don't
listen to a word they say.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Oh it's, it's so well put.
They won't believe in you atall until you do it.
And then they all believed inyou forever Yep From the start,
yeah.
Always knew, always knew it.
You know and I'll bolster thatwith the advice that I'm a
thousand percent sure that ifyou start the right business in
the right way and you don't quit, you will make it.

(01:20:41):
Right now I will promise youthat you start the right
business and you do a little bitof background research and you
start smart, you will make itI've never seen, and you don't
quit.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Don't quit.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
Aligning those things will help you, not quit.
That's why you have to startwith the right idea right, and
it's not what you think it is.
That's why you have to have aplan, because it makes it easier
and you can't quit.
These two things help you notquit and no quit.
I guarantee somebody will makeit.
I've never, ever, seen somebodyfail.
If they do that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Agreed A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
And that, my friends, is another episode of underdogs
, bootstrappers, game changers.
Paloma is a good friend of mine.
I'm going to have her back.
We'll talk about stage two, sofeel free to contact me and tell
me anything we missed on thisepisode and we'll pick it up
again later.
Thanks for joining us.
Hello and welcome to underdogs,bootstrappers and game changers

(01:21:40):
.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who

(01:22:02):
change the world.
This is part of our Content forGood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.

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