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Norman Towns on Outworking the Odds

Let’s be real, success isn’t sexy at the start. Norman Towns knows that better than anyone. Before he hit the screen, he was doing all the jobs no one brags about: spinning signs on the sidewalk, washing dishes, pulling overnight security shifts. Whatever it took.

In this episode, Norman keeps it raw and real about the grind behind the dream. We talk about pushing past fear, staying disciplined when no one’s watching, and why the people who win are usually the ones who just don’t quit.

He shares wild stories (like Mark Wahlberg’s 2 AM workouts) and drops some serious wisdom: talent’s cool, but work ethic is what gets you paid.

If you’re chasing something big and wondering if it’s all worth it, this convo is your reminder to keep showing up. 

No fluff, just straight-up motivation with a few laughs along the way. Tap in, and get ready to feel fired up.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I did a movie called the Gambler with Mark Wahlberg.
Acting has to be tough.
Right, it's never been toughfor me because, like it's always
been something that I want todo.
You don't realize what hardwork is until you see hard work.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to underdogs, bootstrappers and
game changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(00:36):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our content forgood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Underdogs,

(00:59):
bootstrappers, game Changers andmy good friend, norm Towns is
here today, how you guys doing.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
I don't know which camera to look at, but I'm here.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
That's your camera there.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
So I always have an underlying theme with every
episode and you and I Norm and Iare friends.
We have some stories that we'regoing to share today, but
there's a lot of people outthere that think things are
impossible, right, and they comeup with all the ways not to do
something or like the excusesnot to get there.
And, um, norm does acting right.

(01:30):
It's like there is probably alot of people in this world that
would wish the actor's liferight.
They'll want to be one or, youknow, admire acting, and a lot
of people would say, impossible,I can't try.
You know, like, there's nothingI can do to leverage that.
And you have, and that's why Iwanted to bring you on today and
we'll have some discussionsaround.
You know, kind of like, whatyou've done that I really admire

(01:53):
and none of the other peoplecan take from that, and so, um,
let's start here.
Okay, tell me, like, the firstthing that inspired you to want
to like, like, what was yourmind saying when you were like I
want to be an actor?
And then the whole world'stelling you it's like,
impossible, like, how did you,like first beat that hurdle?

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Uh, you know what I feel like I I never obeyed um my
fear or what someone else saidto me.
Okay, you know, and I thinkthat it's like a lot of times we
have these fears or we allowpeople to put press fears upon
us.
Yeah, and it's not the fearthat stops us, but it's our

(02:31):
obedience to that fear.
Sure, it's that movement.
It's like we don't do anythingRight, and I've felt like, just
even growing up, I've alwaysattacked like fears, challenges,
things that I felt like werehard to do.
I've always attacked it andI've always felt like I've
always noticed more success fromattacking my fears than
allowing them to affect me.

(02:52):
Gosh, so well put.
Yeah, and one thing that Inoticed that I've done that
other people I've never based myworth off of my accomplishments
and a lot of never based myworth off of my accomplishments.
Yeah, and a lot of people basetheir worth off of their
accomplishments.
They walk into a room If theyhave something more like that,

(03:12):
that is always like led them tofeel a certain way, was like
something externally.
I've always like based my worthoff of who I was internally.
Yeah, so it's like, even if Ihave nothing, I move the same.
If I had everything, I move thesame.
And I think that a lot of people, like even in, like,
entertainment field, they don'tfeel like they're worth anything
because they don't have theaccomplishment, they might not

(03:37):
have the credits, they might notknow the right people and
they've allowed it to hinderthem.
Like I'm the type where I'venever based my worth off of a
resume, off of things that I'vedone, like I've never.
If I've done a lot or if Ididn't do anything, I'm still
the same person, I still havethe same mindset, I still move
because, like my worth was basedoff of me.
But I feel like a lot of times,like even I guess, even in a

(03:59):
sense where it's like hard orpeople tell you that I've never
allowed it to affect me becauseI never embraced that as my
reality.
People would be like yo, that'shard for you, that must be
tough and for me.
That was never tough for me andI think that I realized what I
was good at early or what cameeasy to me or natural to me,

(04:23):
because being an accountant forme would be tough.
You know what I'm saying, likepeople say acting's tough and
I'm like, yeah, it's tough ifyou're not good at it or if you
naturally don't have it, becausedrawing wasn't tough for me.
You know what I'm saying.
Like there's just certainthings that weren't necessarily
hard for me that I gravitatedtowards and I was able to
cultivate, as opposed to goingagainst doing something that was

(04:46):
tough for me.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Did people support you in that dream initially?
Or did they like, hey, yeah,get a real job.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, I never.
I never really had support inthat way.
But I like I say like I neverbase my worth off of what other
people thought.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
How do you do that, though?
How do you stay motivated whenthe world's telling you you
can't do something, but you knowyou can't?

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, because I never the world, never the world
didn't make me, you know, likethe world never, I've never like
.
I even hear people sometimesthey're like, yeah, this person
doesn't share, this persondoesn't like like my stuff.
I've never thought of otherpeople to impact who I was as a
person.
It's never.
I'm telling you, I've never.

(05:28):
And it might be weird, it mightbe strange, and I've thought
about it Like like where didthat come from?
But like, even early on, likeno one can do anything that that
has been able to like affecthow I thought about myself or
what I wanted to do, yeah, youknow, like no one you know that
has been able to like affect howI thought about myself or what
I wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know, like no one , you know you can't hurt my
feelings Is there a magic trickto that, like something you
could give somebody to like feel, like, know that.
Because we both know, yeah,what's that phrase?
Whether you can or you cannot,you're right, right.
Or whether you say you can't orI can't, you know you're right.
So how do you give people thatlike tool?
Because I believe anybody cando anything they want to do.
Right.
It's just pushing this thingaround in here to believe it too

(06:09):
Right, you know it's funny.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
I is like I was telling one of my friends so
much like slumdog millionaire ina way, where it's like there's
been so many things where, likeI never had, like I was never
pressed to go to college.
Okay, I was never pressed to goto college, I never had an

(06:34):
expectation on my life.
I don't think if I brought homebad girl, it wasn't the end of
the world.
I remember this girl that I wastalking to.
Once her friend got stood upand they were going crazy over
it and she was like how wouldyou feel?
And I knew I wouldn't feel,like it wouldn't matter to me.
And she's like, why?

(06:54):
And I was like I don't know ifI've never felt important enough
.
When someone stood me up itwould feel like if you showed up
, I was like, feel like if youshowed up, I was like, wow, you
showed up.
But like I never.
I never came from a place oflike having things to where I
could lose it.
You know like it's like if youdon't have anything, you can't
lose anything, you can only gain.
You know I'm saying you could.

(07:15):
It's easy to take a risk whenyou don't have nothing.
You know I'm saying what areyou gonna lose?
But then when you startacquiring things, that's when,
like the real test is there,where it's like, okay, shit, I,
I can't lose this, like I don'twant to mess this up or I can't,
you know, and I think, now thatyou have, do you have any of
that creeping?
no, but but I've, I'vecultivated, I've practiced
something for so long that itbecame part of my identity.

(07:38):
Yeah, like a lot of times, likethere's things that you have to
do to keep you in the sameplace, but like I've, I've
practiced it so much.
See, we only see like thefinished product of stuff,
totally only see like, oh,you're doing this or you're good
or you're successful, but wedon't see, like I knew we could
do it when they finally do iteverything that goes into it.

(07:59):
And even like my hard times like, even my hard times I've always
like, made the most of it andit was never like a hard time
until I look back and I'm like,oh yeah, money was tough.
But even when people are likelike the acting has to be tough,
right, it's never been toughfor me because, like it's always

(08:19):
been something that I want todo, it's always been true.
Like I've always lived in mytruth.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Yeah, so like for me, even ifthe money wasn't there, like I
wasn't doing it for the money,yeah, I wasn't doing it for,
like I never had a preconceivedidea about how it's supposed to
go.
Yeah, I just did what I wouldlike to do in the moment.

(08:42):
Yeah, you see what I'm saying Ido.
Yeah, it's almost like a kidplaying a video game.
It's like you didn't thinkabout, like the, the.
It's like I just like playingthe video game.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying Ijust like doing it, I just
enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, one thing I thought that was great is you
like you took control of it, solike we're friends, you know I
know you well and so I know yourstory and it's like you know.
Talk to me a little bit about,like, where you started to do
like those jobs that nobody elsewanted to do, just to get in
the environment, and how thatlike helped.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Just to get in the environment, I would um, I've
done everything from sound to umproduction.
I've like there's not one thingI haven't done.
And I remember like early on Iused to take a lot of jobs that
were very like, I guess,embarrassing to many people,
like I guess a lot of my friendswould be like, like, I flipped
signs, yeah, I watched dishes.

(09:30):
Yeah, I've worked at kids camp.
I did after school programs.
Yeah, I've worked at the nightshift.
Yeah, I've done security athotels.
I've done like.
I've had like two or three jobsat one time.
There was one time where I wasworking at fitness by the sea
with kids and then then I wouldgo to Adidas and I would work at
Adidas and then at night Iwould go and work at their
Hollywood Roosevelt as securityand this was like my schedule,

(09:52):
right, and my whole thing waslike to be like an actor, but I
was like I needed money.
So these are things that likeno one I know would do.
You know there's a lot of peoplethat were like, ah, I'm an
actor, I look too cool.
Like I've never.
I've never had one of thosecomplexes where I thought I was
seen or looked at as somethingspecial, like I've never had a

(10:14):
problem doing these things.
So like I think, when I startedto see like the fruits of my
labor come about, or things thatI've done, like I've always
been proud every step of the way, yeah, and, and I got to see it
pay off, and I was.
I've also seen people that werereally good and had a lot of
pride and it never worked out.

(10:35):
It never worked out and likelike a lot of people don't
realize like how like specialand one of my teachers said this
to me too once where it waslike the power of being brave
yeah, power of being brave, yepcan separate you there's people
in the same yeah, the same place.

(10:55):
yeah, but just being brave,being hungry, like can, can, can
separate you from everyone else, like there's so many times
there are people in the room andthey're scared to talk to
somebody, or they can't, likethey're like oh man, this is
so-and-so.
Like just being brave to talkto somebody and to separate
yourself can change your life, Iagree you know and like and and

(11:20):
and a lot of times peoplearen't necessarily successful
and they, they.
They think that, like they'renot successful because of their
work ethic or like I give anexample, being hard An actor is
being hard, Right, they sayacting is hard.
I always say everything is easy.
It's just easier not to dosomething.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Right, that was always like my motto.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Everything is easy.
It's just easier not to dosomething to do something.
But a lot of times, like whenwe don't work hard or we don't
put in the work, we don'trealize, like we think, that
we're not putting in the workfor there's numerous reasons,
but a lot of times we're notputting in the work because of
our belief system.

(11:58):
You see what I'm saying.
It's not that like we're onlyworking towards our belief
system, because if I told youthat you would be a successful
this or that and you believed it, how you work would be totally
different than how you wouldwork if you didn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, it's like if I told you you could go work at
Adidas for a year and then you'dbe a famous actor, would you do
it?
Oh, yeah.
But to go to work for Adidasfor a year and not knowing your
future, some people like, well,I don't want to do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's something I want tobring back really quick as a
message to you guys.
It's like have you noticed overand over again, the guests I
have on here have all hadmultiple jobs at the same time

(12:36):
there is a key component topeople that actually make it in
things.
You know and it's like and Iknow it's not popular I've made
a video recently Like the firstthing I think you should do to
practice for business is go outand get two jobs.
Oh yeah, literally.
You know it's like, but nobodywants to hear that.
They want to hear you know,like oh, here's the secret
hashtag hack to being successfulin business, the secret hashtag
hack, and you've seen 20 peoplesay they've had multiple jobs

(12:59):
and that's the way they startedand and started and, and I think
everyone should, I think everysingle person should, try to
open up a business of theirchoice for one year, agreed.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
because then I, I feel like you would realize,
like okay, like either twothings, you're just gonna shut
up and work, yeah, and be likeall right, like yeah, or and
you're gonna know, likeeverything that comes with
running something, yeah, andyou're gonna be blown away
because, like, even being anactor, a producer, like I'm an
entrepreneur, and a lot of thejobs that I've had have been way

(13:36):
easier yeah, right than doingmy own thing because, like, I
have to be disciplined.
Let's see, when you have a job,it handles the discipline like
you have to be there.
See, when you have a job, ithandles the discipline Like you
have to be there.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
You'll get ridden up.
Yeah, it frames you in when youdo your own thing.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
the consequences aren't right away.
Yeah, you see what?
I'm saying yeah, like if I'mshowing up late to the job, the
consequences are right away.
I get ridden up or I get fired.
If I go out and have a Stillgot to wake up in the morning
and pretend to be there.
So like when you know, when youdo your own thing, the
consequences aren't right away.
Yeah, but then you look up andyou're like whoa, like I have to

(14:11):
be on top of this, this, this,this, this, you're behind in
this, you're checking to eat.
Like it's a lot, yeah, you know, and a lot of times having a
job, like they say, how you doanything is how you do
everything Totally, and a lot ofpeople don't realize that work
ethic, the things that you needto be successful in anything you

(14:32):
do, it takes a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's astounding to me that people think they're going
to be a half-assed worker insomebody else's company and then
be an amazing worker the second.
They open their own doors.
And not only that, but thenthey open their own doors to get
an employee and they expectthem to be an amazing employee,
even though they would neverwork.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
You know it's like so you don't even deserve it.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
You were a half-assed employee in the company I could
.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
I've been around so many people um and worked with
people in environments.
I could tell it, no matterwhere you are, if you're, if you
, if you could really besuccessful.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Sure, and a lot of times people don't realize.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
This is like buildings are built before
they're built.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Oh, yeah, it's like there's ablueprint your success happens
before success.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Yeah, like the way that someonemoves with nothing will show
you how they'll move witheverything.
And it's so true, clear,because I've seen people that

(15:27):
have gone on to have likeamazing careers and and and
start off from here to here andlike the one difference it
wasn't the talent, because a lotof times the most talented
people don't really go that far,which is interesting.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
and there's a lot of people that have a lot of people
that got it early.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I got it early, or there's a lot of people that
have a lot of vices, especiallypeople that got it early yeah,
that got it early.
Or there's a lot of vices, buta lot of times the people that
end up getting there.
You know, and see, it takes twodifferent things.
To get somewhere, it'sdifferent than staying somewhere
.
Even in relationships, to havea relationship takes one thing,
to get someone, but to keep themis something else.
You know, it's like twodifferent things, right.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Maintaining something versus getting it is two
different things, and most guyswill put in all the work at the
front.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, right,yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
So it's like two different things, but it it
takes.
It takes a lot.
You know there's a, there's a.
You know how you move like it'sgoing to show.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
It's going to show, well, and I know like you to be
like a really good-heartedperson and I know like people
love you immediately, you know,and like that's never.
It says a lot for yourcharacter, you know, and your
heart, but then also encouragespeople to like, join you in like
things in life.
You know, and so and and likewe met because you came into the

(16:46):
studio and you're like Tyler, Iwant to open a podcast, I
wanted to make a decent chunk ofmoney in the first year and I
told you yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Right, you sure did.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
That kind of like I'm not.
I'm like I believe in you.
I'm not not that I don'tbelieve in you, but historically
you're not going to make akilling the first year, right,
and you have a name and you knowtraction, so that's a little
bit different than some peoplestarting and so.
But at the end of the day wedeveloped a friendship over it,
ended up helping you with yourbusiness opening and that sort
of stuff.
You know, podcast is still inthe works at some point, um, but

(17:16):
I want to use this as a quicksegue to say why I'm wearing my
orange shoes today.
So I had just gotten back fromafter a month of filming and my
shoes were so beat up that theywere hanging and I actually
think I've even worn them onthis set before.
And so Norm sees this and hecomes in a couple days later and

(17:38):
he brings me a whole bag ofConverse shoes, and so that just
shows his heart you know that Ineeded some shoes and brought
me a whole bag of shoes.
And you know like you and I havebeen great friends ever since.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, cause I, you know, and that's the thing is,
like I always show love and andI, and so much has happened in
my career that like it's it'snot, like I can't take credit
for so many good things thathave happened, but all like, all
I can do is control me andwhere I'm going towards.
You know, I can't controlanything else.

(18:11):
Yeah, you know, especially inour field, like we can't, you
can't control when someone givesyou an opportunity.
So I've always tried to just dothe right thing and do right by
people and massage like goodrelationships.
I've always had greatrelationships with people and
I've never been afraid to likehave good relationships with
people.
Yeah, like there's times whereI would join like soccer leagues
or football leagues and I wouldjust sign up to just meet new

(18:34):
people, to join leagues andstuff like that.
And I remember one of my friendslike this is the weirdest thing
, like you don't know anybody onthe team.
You know, I was like nah, Ijust I wanted to like join a a
league.
I just wanted to join like aflag football league or like a
soccer league, because I haven't, I've never played that.
I was just like I want to do itand then I'll meet people and
I'll have like the bestfriendships or like just like

(18:54):
it's just crazy how it works,but like it just happens for me
putting myself in positions that, like most people are scared to
do.
Like the same way with thispodcast stuff, it it's like I
came to Arizona.
I was like I want to look atpodcasts.
So I just Googled podcasts andI just started calling.
I was like yo, I want to checkout the space, you know, and you
were so welcoming and such alike a good person and
encouraging and honest and itwas like it was so refreshing

(19:16):
Cause I was like I'm the sameway, like you weren't someone
that was like trying to sell youon something or to like make
you buy it, but you were justlike what are you trying to do?
Okay, well, that probably won'twork like this unless you do
this.
But like you never gave acriticism without a suggestion,
you know, you were like, well,maybe you could do this, or
maybe this is another avenue,like, and that's how I think,

(19:38):
that's how I moved to where it'slike, okay, if this isn't a
possibility, like maybe I couldtake do this, this, this to get
to this, or maybe I have to dothis or that to get to this
point, and like that's whythings happen for people.
I'm telling you things thathappen for people like that.
Like I hate to say it, but it'slike one of those things where

(19:58):
it's like it starts there.
That's that's where it starts,and a lot of people I agree, you
know you know it's like you'vehit on a couple of key things.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's like working hard and, you know, like
controlling the things youcontrol, which was your work
ethic Right, and then lovingpeople to the point that you
even get involved.
You know it's uncomfortable forsomebody to go and meet a bunch
of random people, but those aretwo key components of being
successful.
Component, you know it's like.
So in my MBA class one timethey asked this question.
They put Warren Buffett, Ithink, on the TV and he asked

(20:29):
he's like in this room right nowand I'm in this room with all
these like illustrious MBAstudents, right, it's like a lot
of them were CEOs of companiesand things like that.
It's like, okay, I'm going togive you an opportunity and you
can invest in any one of thestudents in this room.
Okay, as to their futurepotential, right, just like a
business.
And then they leave you quietfor a minute and you sit there

(20:50):
and you ponder that thought andI'm thinking about this thought
and I'm like I'm sitting next toall these people.
I was really intimidated when Ifirst got into my MBA program
and I was like the answer, Ithink, is me of all these people
, like they're great, you knowit's like, and they'll work hard
and they excuse me, they'regreat, they're smart, they've
done amazing things, butnobody's going to work harder
for me.
Nobody has the plan I have, youknow.

(21:12):
And so I thought in my mind Iwould invest in myself.
Right, and like.
That key notion has come aboutin my life quite often because,
secondarily to myself, who's thefirst investment?
I look for people in my lifethat I would also investment,
given the second opportunity,and you're one of them, like I.
Like I see your star rising allthe time, I love supporting

(21:33):
what you do, I love watching youwin and then, but I think, like
the, what the audience can takeout of those key components is
work ethic, once again, and yourability to give and love people
and try to connect with peoplein environments that aren't
always comfortable.
Right, and then even taking thelittle job, because you never
know where it gets you to next.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
It never.
And see, and there's so manythings that like I've I've seen
people do and I've learned fromwhere, like when I go on set,
like I'm nice to like the, thesound person, the AD, like I
talk to everyone, I say goodbye,I have a conversation and and

(22:13):
and this goes back to where Iwas telling you like so many of
my blessings or things that havehappened have been because,
like the photographer that Italked to is working on another
set and they needed somebody andhe was like oh, I know, norm,
like if I could tell you howmany times opportunities have
came my way from kindness,kindness yeah, you know, like I

(22:33):
love that you it would blowsomeone's mind to where, like
most people, they just want totalk to the person at the top or
they'll set up a meeting tosell a show, setting generals.
Yeah, I started doing generalsand I remember a few of like my
friends were like this is likewhy are you doing a general if
you don't have nothing to talkabout?

(22:54):
Like this is crazy.
And if I would have listened tothat, I would have been like
you're right.
Like why am I doing a general?
I don't have nothing to talkwhat's the?
general, sorry, like where youjust have a general meeting.
Oh okay, so like you could havelike a general meeting with,
like, say, I want to have ageneral meeting with Tyler so we
could just talk, yeah.
So I was like, man, maybeyou're right, but I didn't
realize, like having thesegeneral meetings allowed me to

(23:16):
know someone, to meet them.
Then when I have an idea for aproject, they're like Norm,
that's your idea.
Oh, man, well, you know what,maybe we should do it.
You know what?
Um, let's do this and do thisand do this, and this is how we
can do it.
And that's how I got thisproject called the Dumbbell
Heist off.
But it was one of those thingswhere it's like it started from
just having a general meeting.
I got to know somebody.

(23:38):
Then I got to know like whatthey were looking for or where
they were at, and then when Ihad an idea that fit in their
realm, then it was like, oh, itmade sense, or they gave me some
new advice.
But if I came up to them andwas like, hey, I got this idea.
Now it sounds like a pitch.
Now, there's no common ground.
Now, earn it.
There's no, yeah, you don'tearn it.
And a lot of things that, likeI've done, have been because of

(24:01):
like jobs that I've had orthings that I've learned like
throughout life that have helpedme so much in this life.
I remember going door-to-doorselling knives and stuff.
There's so many things withrejection and I think that
Another one.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
door-to-door sales, Another successful trait.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
But it's like I've learned rejection early to where
it's like you cannot like.
You're not going to hurt myfeelings by saying, no, I'm
gonna figure out another way.
Sure, you can't like.
You'll be surprised at how manypeople cannot take a loss.
They can't take an l.
Yeah, they cannot take a loss.
Like I could live in a loss.

(24:44):
You know I'm saying like Icould.
I could go through l's losseslike all the time until I get to
where I know I need to get to,because I know it's coming, but
like there's a lot of peoplethat can't do that.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
You, you learn a lot more in the loss, oh, you learn.
Oh, I hate to lose.
Honestly, you know like I hateto lose, but you learn a lot
more in the loss and I alwayslook.
The greatest strides they madein life is because of the losses
.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Right the mistakes I remember Mark I think it was
Mark Cuban saying, like he doesbusiness with people that have
failed.
Yeah, like, because they knowhow it feels and they bounce
back.
It's like they know how to likedeal with losses.
And a lot of people, if theyget it earlier, they win, win,

(25:28):
win.
When they take an L, they golike you know how to bounce back
from something.
A lot of people that have beensuccessful, they know how to
bounce back and they've facedresilience somewhere in life.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
They've overcame something.
The number one trait ofsuccessful people is the ability
to overcome adversity.
And so it's like I feelhorrible for kids that deal with
bullying and stuff in theiryouth, right, and so it's like I
feel horrible for kids thatdeal with bullying and stuff in
their youth.
But actually it it sucks, butthat bad stuff, it actually
prepares you to be moresuccessful?

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, it does.
And it's like how you overcomeit.
A lot of people don't teachpeople how to overcome.
You know things like that, orgive them like, like ways to
deal with it, ways to overcomeit, like ways to deal with it,
ways to overcome it.
You know like hey, and thenonce you it's funny, it's like
once you face it, you're likeman, my fear of it was way

(26:17):
greater than the reality of it.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Always right.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
My fear of something was way greater.
I remember, I think Will Smithwas saying how when he was about
to go skydiving like the wholeweek up to it he was scared, he
was dreaming about fire, andthen when he did it, he was like
man.
My fear of this was way greaterthan the reality of me jumping
out of a plane.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
You know everything that.
And I have a famous phrase, onthis show especially.
It's like um, there's two umways to tell if you should do
something and if you're going totruly grow from it.
Number one is if you fear it,and number two, you check that
your heart's in the right place.
If those two answers ring yes,you have to do it, because
that's where you'll grow themost as a person, right?
And so, like I've done a lot ofthings in life that I'm afraid

(26:59):
of, when we first went over todo the docu series in Cambodia,
like I'm like I'm beating myselfup for a month.
You know, you're the actor, notme.
I'm beating myself up for amonth.
I'm so nervous, I'm sick to mystomach for a whole month.
And I'm like Tyler, you're notfucking Barbara Walters, why are
you going over?
And not only that, and I'mtelling myself this in my head
I'm like, not only that, but youhave to choose the hardest one

(27:19):
always.
Why do you got to choose theguy that literally worked in
Hollywood as president of FoxFilms as your first, first
episode that you're going tointerview, right?
It's like couldn't you havechose something a little easier?
And like I'm sick to my stomachover it, you know, co-host
backed out at the last minuteand it's like I go over there
and it fucking changed my life,change your life in every single
way, right, and it was all thatsickness and fear that I needed

(27:41):
to really get there to the nextlevel, right.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
And so, like that fear overcoming that completely
changed my life, completelychanged your life and it's like
see, I never put anything on apedestal, like I never was.
Like I wanted to be a famousactor or I wanted to like.
You know, you hear people like,hey, you just want to get your
big break or your big this.

(28:05):
Yeah, I've never thought likethat.
I've always just said I want todo what I enjoy doing.
You know, I want to do what Ilike to do, what I enjoy doing,
and if there's something that Ican enjoy doing that I can pay
my rent and bills with, evenbetter.

(28:27):
But like, I've always yearnedfor something that I enjoyed
doing and I never was like, oh,because I used to hear people
like, oh, you got to get yourbig break.
And and I was just like in myhead I was like I, I do have my
big break, like I had to.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
like you've done some cool stuff already, but I
wonder around even before coolstuff everything was cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Yeah, everything was cool stuff.
I've never taken a project towhere it was a big deal, or I
put it on a pedestal Because Iremember somebody was like.
You know, I just did that filmwith Jordan Peele him.
And they were like how did itfeel?
And it felt just as good asdoing a short film called uh,

(29:13):
cereal for breakfast and thisand this.
Like they all felt amazing.
Nothing was like.
Nothing was like oh, this isyeah.
Oh my god, this is bigger.
This is like.
I've met amazing people atevery single thing I've done.
If it was a short film, I'vedone.
If it was a short film, I'vetaken it like it was an Oscar

(29:33):
worthy film.
If it was a commercial, it wasjust as fun.
If it was this, whatever it was, it was a big deal for me and I
treated it all the same.
So now, when I have a bigsituation to other people,
they're like oh my God, were younervous?
And I was like no other people.
They're like oh my God, wereyou nervous?
And I was like no, because,like, everything was the same,
everything just felt good,there's such a like I think

(29:55):
there's a lesson there.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's like and I used to like think about this when I
was employing people it's likewhen we would work in a horrible
job, right.
Who would keep a good mood?
Right, because I don't carewhat the job is, if you're
around good people, it's fun,right.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
It could be 125 degrees and you're moving
furniture.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
If you're working with the right people in the
right environment, it is fun andlike.
What I see from you is likeyou're on these sets and, no
matter what it is, you're notdown in the dump.
People love working with you,which is another key component.
So keeping a good mood is likea huge skill in itself and
people want to be around you inthose cases they want to bring
you to the next thing, causeyou're so much fun to be around
and work with, you know.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
And I really I really try my best to like always,
like live in my truth and like,I hear it all the time Like some
people are like who's yourfavorite actor or this, and I
just named these like randompeople that they've never heard
of, that I've been in class with, that I thought were amazing.
They just never got theiropportunity.
And I'm like naming thesepeople and people are like who

(30:55):
are they?
And the next thing you know,they start blowing up and people
start seeing them and I waslike because I'm answering
honestly of like what I've seenand who I see as good, and
sometimes people that are reallygood aren't in the position yet
, or they might never't in theposition yet or they might never
be in the position, but I knowtalent when I see it.
Or I see people and I'm likeman, like they're, they're

(31:18):
special and whether they theyget to be seen on a level that
people can admire them.
Because, see, a lot of timesit's like when you get your
praise, that's when people startcongratulating you and da, da,
da, but like, but like I'mhonest enough to see people that
like haven't got theiropportunity yet and I know it's
coming, or even if it doesn'tcome like.

(31:38):
I'm like, wow, they're good.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (31:41):
So, like I would guess there's a high let's not
call it a failure rate, but quitrate.
Right, it's like, okay, thisthing's not for me, I'm not
making it, or whatever.
I would guess there's a reallyhigh quit rate in trying to be
in entertainment.
So what do you see in thepeople, the key undertoning
notes that you see of those thatmake it.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
There's a lot of things.
There's a lot of variables, um,sometimes like a lot of
variables, um, sometimes like alot of.
A lot of times it is resilienceor it's positioning, but like
there's, it's everyone has.
So many people have gifts, lotsof gifts, sure and how, what

(32:28):
they do with those gifts or howthey use it.
It's, it's very it's like likewe're diving into like like
their surface level answers andthen there's like depth, because
there's some people like thattake acting like a job and
they've got opportunities andlike I remember Ashton Kutcher
said this once where he was likehe grew up like on a, a farm

(32:50):
and stuff, and they were like,well, what about acting?
Is it like this and this?
And he was like I literally ama hard worker.
So when I got an opportunity,like I took it.
The same way I would get anopportunity if I was like
working here here here, like Itook it serious and I just
worked hard.
You know, it wasn't that like itwas something that like I

(33:11):
wanted, like I was just like howdo I do the best job I can do
and and that's like so.
So there's so many things.
Like some, some people are justreally good business people and
they're entrepreneurs, but likeI think what it comes down to
is like these people that aresuccessful, like they're hard

(33:33):
workers and you don't realizehow, like you don't realize what
hard work is until you see hardwork.
Yeah, that that is one thingthat I think a lot of people
don't like you.
You you see someone at the topand you could change at the top

(33:53):
because you're there, you seewhat.
I'm saying you could, you couldparty a little more, you could
like it's like.
It's like me going to yourcelebration and being like man,
he's celebrated, you know, butlike to get to that point, like
if you got around someone, ifyou got to see what hard work
really looks like, yeah, eitheryou're going to say like, okay,

(34:17):
I know what I need to do, oryou're going to say like I'm not
going to do this anymore.
Yeah, you know, cause like hardwork.
And see, a lot of people thinkhard work is one dimensional,
where it's one thing, no, like.
Let me tell you something.
When I wanted to like act right, yeah, like man, I'm not
getting the breaks I'm getting,I'm not this and this.
And I had a coach.

(34:37):
Uh, tell me he was like well,how many meetings are you
setting up a week?
Yeah, how many.
How many workshops are yougoing to?
How many classes do you go toevery week?
How many that?
And, like I was like well, howmany people do you call?
How many people do you email?
How many?
Week?
How many of the?
And, like I was like well, howmany people do you call?
How many people do you email,how many?
And I'm thinking like how manyagents do you set up like
lunches?
How many generals are youhaving a week?
How many?

(34:57):
How many?
Um, how many people are youtalking to?
What directors are you meetingup with?
What?
Uh, how many classes?
Oh, did you do the masterclass?
Did you do the?
Was like man, I.
And he was like you'reexpecting these outcomes, right,
and you're not putting andyou're not putting in the work.
But I was like, oh well, thisis because, see, a lot of people

(35:19):
want it.
Yeah, so many people want stuff.
Yeah, but very few are willingto put in the work to get the
things that they want and andand.
See we, a lot of times we'remad at the results.
Yeah, we're mad at the resultsof, of of the outcomes that we
put in.
I'll give you a great example.

(35:39):
Right, what you're looking atis the results of something that
I've done.
Sure, you see what I'm saying.
It's like, if I look at yourbody, I'm like I can't see you
working out.
I might not, I might not likesee, but I'm looking at the
results of somebody that worksout.
Right, like I'm looking.

(36:00):
You know what I'm saying.
Like I might not see you workingout I might not know when you
work out, like you might evensay you barely work out, but the
results that you're showing meis like you're doing something
that somebody else isn't doing.
Sure, you see what I'm saying.
Yeah, like you're doingsomething that not a lot of
people are doing.
Yeah, so, like, a lot of timeswe don't realize that, like

(36:23):
you're seeing the results of alot of things that I've done or
someone else has done, yeah,right, but you might not be
seeing me do them.
Sure, you don't see me wakingup at 5 am working out, so that
way I can do X, y and Z and Z, z, z.
Yep, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Like, but taking the bad job taking the bad job,
taking the heartbreak, goingback out doing this being an
extra.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I did extra work for a long time.
I did, like you're seeing theresults of a lot of work, and
this is the thing.
This is why, like, I don'treally like I judge like someone
on a curve Because, like I knowhow much it takes to be decent,
yeah, not good, yeah, not great, yeah, like I know, because

(37:10):
someone say how'd they?
Do I go oh, they did great,they did really good, they did
really good.
So how do you like watching afilm that was decent, that was
good, that was good?
Because, like, I just know howmuch it takes to be decent, so
true, and if you knew how muchit took to be like, like I look
at things and I'm like, if youtry to do that, yeah, do you

(37:34):
know?
Like I did stand up comedy,yeah, do you know how hard it is
not just to make somebody laugh, but to get on a stage and say
your name.
Just go up there and say hi,I'm Norman, hi, I'm Tyler, hi,
you know.
Like, just get up there and sayyour name, like do you know how

(37:57):
tough that is?
And then, when you get up there, hi guys, you know so, to tell
a joke.
So, like I know, I put myself inpositions where I know what it
takes and you have a differentoutlook when you know what it
takes and I have a differentoutlook.
When someone comes up to me andthey say, yeah, you want to get

(38:18):
into acting and stuff like that, there's no doubt about it.
I don't think someone could besuccessful.
But, like, my mindset is likeare you willing to do what it
takes?
Like, are you willing to dowhat it takes?
Yeah, are you willing to?
You know, audition thousands oftimes and never.
And maybe book two jobs, suredo you know?
Do you have what it takes to?
Like, oh man, get a little sidejob so that way you can say you

(38:42):
have a toothache to leave, togo do an audition?
Yep in the valley and try tomake it back and try like, do
you have what it takes to?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
go through.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, how bad do you really want it?
Do you have have what it takesto show up at an event that you
weren't invited to?
Or show up to a commercialaudition that you you weren't
even invited to but you heardthey're doing commercials here,
so you're just going to show upand sign your name in and then
they say they can't find you andyou're like, oh man, my agent
must've messed up.
And then you make up an agentor you call somebody or you you
know what I'm saying Like, like,how bad do you want it?

(39:14):
Yeah, I've done things thatlike these.
Nobody who's doing that.
I used to email my headshot tolike agents and managers it
didn't matter who they were LikeI would, you know, like I would
take the bus places I wouldtake the bus.
I've audited so many classesunder different names so that
way I could come back and takethe class and I try to like, not

(39:37):
say nothing.
So that way people don'tremember me because you get a
one-time audit.
So I'd come in there and auditas Romeo.
That I come back and audit isJeff, and they'd be like you
look so familiar.
You know what I'm saying?

(40:15):
No-transcript, want to learn howto like you think you want
these things, and and until youlike I used to say this all the
time like people that want to bean actor or this, just spend,
like, spend a few hours with me.

(40:35):
Yeah, you're going to be eitherbored, tired, frustrated.
You're going to be like yo,this is like wake up, like meet
me at the gym at 4.30.
Yep, that's what I tell people.
I'm like yo, yo, they go.
Oh, I'm trying to keep.
I mean, we hit the gym at 4.30.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
What?
4.30 pm no am.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
That's crazy, yeah.
And then go here with me.
And then go here and then I gota class at 10.
Come to my class with me here,Hit up the teacher and then you
Like you don't want it, like youthink you want it.
Gosh, you know what I'm saying.
You don't want to do what ittakes to have what it, and I'm

(41:13):
not even saying anything.
This is the funny thing.
Yeah, I'm not even telling youto do something to like shock
you.
Yeah, I'm not even doingsomething to like play a game to
put you through it.
Like.
You know how someone say wakeup at two and you wake up at two
.
I'm not even telling you to dosomething.
That is extreme.

(41:33):
I'm just telling you to do thebare minimum to meet me.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
What I love about what you're saying is I'm
sitting here in my brain and I'mgoing, so it's possible, right.
And if you're able to do thatand say, oh man, I don't know if
I can go all through that, soyou're saying I have control of
this right.
And if you're able to do thatand say, oh man, I don't know if
I can go all through that, soyou're saying I have control of
this right.
The second you can say, okay, Ihave control of waking up at
four o'clock in the morning.
I have control at auditingthese classes.
I have control of doing thesethings exceptionally over and

(42:02):
over again, trying day in andday out.
I can control all that.
So the right mindset towardsthis is like I can make this a
distinct possibility and havecontrol over it, Not this
mystery of luck, Right, andthat's what I think is so
inspiring.
You're controlling it.
So the wrong brain will look atthat oh, you're doing all that
stuff.
That's hard, you know.
It's like that's not the way mybrain looks at it and that's

(42:22):
not the way your brain shouldlook at it.
You're like I can control this.
I can control this by waking upevery day at four o'clock in
the morning.
I can control this by gettingout there as many.
You throw enough darts at thedartboard and you will make some
shots Right, it's like, andthat's what you're telling me.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
And I thought and it's what you want, yeah, see,
see, like I'm blessed to havesome, you know, I have some
assets and some things that arecool, but like, if I had some
money, it's going into class,it's going to meetings, like
it's going into the things thatI want, which is, in return,
producing the things that Ireally you know what I'm saying

(42:58):
yeah.
Or it's like, oh, these thingsare so cool, but it's like my
mentality is like these are thethings that I like.
I did a movie called theGambler with Mark Wahlberg and
when I tell you and I didn'tknow it was possible to work
that hard Like this guy wakes upat like 2 am.

(43:19):
He goes to church After church.
This is daily.
This is why we were on set forthe Gambler.
So it might be different, butthen he would work out and run
his lines with his friend fromlike 4 to 5.30.
He'd be on set by like 6.30 iscall time.
He'd bring his kids with him sothat way he could spend time

(43:42):
with them.
Yeah, from like 7 to likewhenever he got done right, so
that way he could spend timewith them.
He'd go home, I think, when hewould wrap maybe around like
6.30, like whatever, and thenhe'd be in bed by 7 and he'd be
up in the morning doing the samething, you know.
So that story, that's likeseven to two, like he's sleeping

(44:04):
, like I'm telling you like itwas like, and this isn't like
like.
This is what people don'trealize too.
It's like like to someone thatdoesn't know that you would
think that, like they're makingit up, like it's a see, you
don't just land on top of amountain.
No, you see what I'm saying.

(44:25):
Like you don't just like.
Someone would be like okay,yeah, right, like, I'm sure
you're, like, I'm sure you'retaking a day off, I'm sure
you're like a day off, I'm sureyou're not Even that mentality,
that mindset, to even think thatthese people don't even have
that.
You see what I'm saying.
If you were to tell someonenormal, they'd be like yeah,

(44:45):
right, no one is thatdisciplined.
No, these people are thatdisciplined and that consistent
that that's what gives them theoutcome that they have.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
It's controllable, and you hear that over and over
again, right, it's like you hearthat with Michael Jordan, you
hear that with the rock, youhear that with, uh, colby Bryant
, you know everybody that hasthis optimal level of success.
They're all putting in theeffort and the work and they can
control that, right, and sothat's, and we're living in this
internet resolution of like, oh, it's so easy, because guess

(45:17):
what it's so easy makes a lot ofmoney in this world right now.
It's so easy.
You just buy this thing, takemy class, whatever it is, we'll
get you there tomorrow.
And the answer is it neverhappens.
And that's what I was like sobeautifully worded.
You know, on everything you'reyou're saying, and whether you
know it or not, folks, this isgold value.
This will get you to anythingyou want.

(45:37):
Have you ever read Will Smith'sbook?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I haven't read it.
I haven't read it.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
I heard it was amazing, though, so it was good
and like one thing I loved aboutit like he has a different way
of describing it than I do.
I actually used a in my MBAclass.
We had a stats class and thenwe were studying decision trees
right, and decision trees arebasically we have these two
decisions and what are theprobabilities of those decisions
?
So I kind of bastardize thisand say, if I make this decision

(46:04):
, what is my probability towardssuccess?
Right, and Will Smith does this.
Similarly, he calls like hetalks about fight camp at one
point.
How can, uh, every decision Imake in life, you know, like
being in fight camp and focusingmy whole life on acting and
fighting before Muhammad Ali andthat sort of stuff, it's like I
can control.
You know what's going on withmy body, my progress, all these

(46:25):
sorts of things.
So our decisions every singleday impact whether we're
progressing towards a lofty goalor away from a lofty goal.
Right, it's like Tyler cansleep in tomorrow and is that in
any way, shape or form, even ifit feels peripheral, going to
get me closer to the goal?
I don't have to work out for myjob, but I do have to work out
because it's my mind that needsit.

(46:46):
So that's one decision I makeat the very beginning of the day
to progress me forward.
If I want to start skippingthat, then guess what?
I'm taking my probability downon my success.
And that's what nobody wants todo.
They don't want to wake up andrealize every single decision
gets you closer or further away.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, and, and there's a difference between
knowing a path and walking apath.
Yeah, you know, like there's adifference and you'll see the
people that walk the path.
Yeah, as opposed to knowing thepath, cause it's like we know
what to eat to get in shape.
We know, what exercise is doing?

Speaker 2 (47:19):
You know that's bad, that's good.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Everybody should be in shape.
Yeah, you know what I'm sayingEverybody should be at like, but
that's not the case.
You see what I'm saying, and alot of times I'm telling you
it's the discipline, it's theconsistency.
And I remember so when I did, Idid a movie called the Dunbar
Heist that we went to productionwith a guy named Caleb Pinkett,

(47:41):
who is Jada Pinkett's brother,who worked for Will Smith in
them, and before he could workfor Will Smith, he wanted to
like work for him.
And Will Smith made him readlike all these books and he said
and you need a six pack.
And he was like what?
I need a six pack.
This is crazy.
He's like this is the dumbestthing in the world.

(48:03):
He's like listen, if you wantto work for me, you have to have
a six pack, because if you cantake care of your body and do
this to your body like, you canget in shape, then I can trust
you with my business.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah, because if you're out ofshape like, I can't trust you

(48:24):
with my livelihood.
Yeah, because you don't takecare of you.
Yep, so how would you take careof me and the things that I
have Agreed?
And he was like this guy'scrazy.
So he said he got a six pack.
It was the hardest, hardestthing.
His life still has a six-pack.
But like it was just one ofthose things where I was like
man, like that's so true, yeah,you know.

(48:45):
Like, if you can't take care ofyou, yeah, how can you take
care of me?
And I have a lot.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
So I was like man, but it, butit's, it's, it's it.
And like I say it's such atailor fit, um success.
Like like I say all the time,like it's one of those things
where, if you really want it andyou do it, like you do what it

(49:10):
takes, like you'll always you'llbe good Cause.
See, that's how I've alwaysfelt is like I've never.
I've always done what I had todo, you know, to do what I
wanted to do, and I've alwaystried to do it to the best of my
ability.
I've always tried to like overdeliver.
I've always tried to beprepared, like I've always, you
know, and I've never, I've neverfolded, I've never, I've never

(49:33):
put my like, like I've alwaysjust worked hard and just said
like I'm gonna do the best thatI can do and be the best version
of me and that's all I cancontrol.
Sure, I can't control ifsomeone gives me opportunity,
yeah, I can't control.
If I don't do anything everlike, yeah, I don't control it,
but all I can do is just be thebest version of myself and move

(49:55):
towards that.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, it gives you your best ability at approaching
anything lofty right.
It's like you build an avatarthat's capable right Through
your mindset, through reading,through education, through
fitness, and then you take theavatar as far as it can go.
You have to be healthy to beable to wake up at 4 o'clock in
the morning.
You have to be, you have to befeeling good to be able to be in
a good personality on set thatmakes people want to be around

(50:18):
you.
It's like it all ties togetherEvery single thing in your life,
Everything.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
And and a lot of people that struggle with
certain areas.
There's no regiment ofconsistency in that area there's
no regiment.
I have a like.
I have a regiment, I have abase.
Like every morning I have tolisten to something like
positive or motivational.
Um, I had to work out, I had tocompete in something, at least

(50:46):
like two to three times a week.
So I'll join like a leaguebecause that gets that out.
And then, like like there'scertain things I have to be in
classes.
I have to like there's a basethat I have to have to be me.
You see what I'm saying?
Because that's a keystone.
Everything has a keystone.
If we're building a house,there's a slat that holds

(51:06):
everything together.
My keystone has to be strong,to where I can perform or I can
show up as me.
You see what I'm saying?
Because if my regiments are off, then I'm off Usually if my
body, if I'm out of shape,usually mentally, my body is a
reflection of how I'm doing.
Mentally there's just so manythings that I need to do to be

(51:28):
me and there's people thatstruggle with consistency in
areas and I'm just like that'sbecause you don't have any
regiments in place.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
And you don't want it hard enough.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, you don't want it bad enough, but you don't
have any regiments in place toeven keep you consistent enough
to have it.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
You know how easy it's become for me to pick out
superstars.
It's become so easy it'sridiculous.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
It's like I can ask them four questions and know
whether they're going to make itpretty much.
Either that or you've got toprove me wrong.
And some people come from proveme wrong and they do.
Well, there's always exceptions.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I basically know these days it's that easy to
tell right.
It's like the people thatreally make it have a consistent
group of things that you cannotice in them and that's what I
really try to teach in thislike podcast.
It's like these are theconsistent things.
Don't look for the magic trick.
Start the hard work.
That's the shortcut, and I knowI'm like some crazy bearded

(52:22):
dude that my friend has to buyme shoes because I won't even
buy my own.
Sometimes but, it's like, butit's like, listen to this, this
is what actually works andthat's what I try to dream
friends on like, uh, uh, likeyou today, you know, and then
like tell them so they're notjust listening to me all the
time.
It's like you can have anythingyou possibly want.
You know it's like, and I wantyour success more than you
probably want your success,cause I could.

(52:43):
I know how kindhearted you aretoo, and I know the impact
you're going to make more andmore as you get more in that
success, you know, and so that'swhy one of my key phrases is I
want to make more kindheartedbadasses.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know you ever call me abouta business question.
I don't answer for you in everyway I can possibly.
Can you know it's like I'llsupport you until the end
because you're an amazing personand I want to watch you go.

(53:05):
You know and like by that Iwill have a hand in your success
and the amazing things you'regoing to do in this world.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I appreciate it, yeah , because it is one of those
things where lot of good peoplethat aren't in the right
position, yeah, and there's alot of bad people in the right
position.
You're like why does that worklike that?
Like, why like?

Speaker 2 (53:21):
and some of them get the breaks, and it's like you.
Here's the other thing, thoughit's like you wouldn't even want
it.
If you would have like wentright out and like got the lead
part in the green mile yeah,right next to like like whatever
.
If you would have went out andgot like the biggest part the
world right away, that was thebiggest movie I could think of
in that moment.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
But you know, it's like look at how easy this was.
It wouldn't even have felt thatgood.
It wouldn't even have felt thatgood yeah.
When you have to go out thereand struggle and hurt and get
there.
You know it's like it feels somuch fitness.
We admire that because we knowthe hard work it took to get it
when we see somebody with aFerrari, we assume that they've
worked hard to get the FerrariRight.

(54:01):
You know and like, and did youknow there was a period in time
where people admired people withrotten teeth?
Why?
Because it was hard to get.
You couldn't afford the sugarythings that would rot your teeth
, so it was seen as beautiful.
You know it's like, and sothat's another point I try to

(54:21):
get out all the time.
It's like there was a.
There was a time in life whereif you had a tan, that was ugly.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
That meant you were a farmer right.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
What does it mean today?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Right, it's like it means that you have time and
luxury to be out in the sun, oreven being like having a big
belly, meant that you werewealthy Exactly Because you
could eat whatever you want.
Yeah, you could afford the food.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
If it was easy, nobody would want it anyways.
It wouldn't feel a value, right?
And so now all these thingstoday, it's like, well, it's
hard, yeah, well, it's hard, soyou can appreciate it for one,
you know, and it's a barrier toentry for those of you that
don't deserve it.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, no, you're so.
It's so true and it's so muchabout learning you.
Yeah, spending the time tolearn you.
It's like there's this quote.
My favorite quote was when Isearch for God, I find myself.
And when I search for myself, Ifind God, yeah, and it's one of
those things where it's likeyou learn you.
Yeah, you learn like you learnwhat you're good at.

(55:13):
You learn places that you cango.
You have control over yourself,you know, because most people
that are very successful,they're great listeners and they
have control, yeah, ofthemselves.
They have control.
It's like nothing controls them.
You know, some people theygotta smoke all the time, they
gotta do this like there's no,they don't have any control.

(55:33):
It controls them.
But a lot of people that reachthis level of success, they have
control over themselves.
They're in control ofthemselves.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
And quite often they use that thing that most people
think would be a disadvantage asan advantage, Like in the
acting world.
Steve Buscemi right, Typicallyactors are really good looking,
right, you don't even reallythink to be an actor if you're
not really good looking.
And Steve Buscemi is one of thegreatest actors out there and
he's cast in all these reallyinteresting parts because he's

(56:06):
different looking, you know, andso, or Danny DeVito?

Speaker 1 (56:10):
you know is like short and you know like funny
guy.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
You know it's like there's a lot of talents in this
world that, like, we don'tthink to utilize.
We're like, oh, I'm not thetypical and that actually,
what's that could be what's morelikely to help them make it?
Yeah, wow.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
And there's just like , like, I'm telling you everyone
that you see every success.
I see the work that goes intothat.
Yeah, and I'm always like, like, even being a good act, that's
work.
It is being a entrepreneurthat's work, having you know it,
it's work.
And I, and I admire work, Iadmire greatness, like I have

(56:47):
this infatuation with greatnessand I love, like, even through
through history, great people inhistory, and I used to always
say, like what makes this persongreat, like what makes you
great?
And I remember I had aconversation with one of my
friends because I had, I waslucky enough to like, see so
much and be around people, andthat's one thing that I wish.

(57:10):
I wish more people had theopportunity to see what good and
great looks like Agreed, like Iwish you know how someone could
say, yeah, you know how.
Someone could say like, hey, Iwant you to see this house.
Yeah, you're like, yeah, Icould get a house like this.
Wow, now I know it's possible.
I wish someone could hang outwith like any entrepreneur for

(57:52):
like a day or two and just seewhat goes into it, what they
deal with, how they like gothrough it, how they like the
fires that they put out on adaily basis, like how like they
move through things that youwould say like, oh, my, like,
this is what it looks.
Cause.
Cause, either you're going todo two things.
You're either going to say,okay, I could do this, yeah, or
you're going to say, okay, Igotta, I gotta figure.
You hear about those kids thatlike play basketball or football
and they think they're going tothe league and then they play
against like an all American andthey're like, oh, my gosh, like

(58:15):
whoa, like, oh, like, they getto see it right away.
There's two choices.
Yeah, there's two choices.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I remember I was talking tothis guy this, uh, this
football game and he was sayingthat like he thought he was
gonna go to the NBA, and then hesaid that this, this kid came
to their school to play him andthey said he was like I didn't
even know someone could be thatgood.
And I was just like, all, allright, I'm going to jump into

(58:36):
finance.
He's like I'm a little whiteguy, I got to jump, but he was
just like it just humbled me.
I was like, wow, there's peopleout here that are this good.
And I was just telling him Iwas like man life.
It's funny how in sports, yourbody type or the position show
you like where you are.
Like in life, it's like here,yeah, it's not like as clear as

(58:58):
like your physicality, like,yeah, you could jump on a
football field.
I said, oh, this guy's big andfast, he's gonna be good, but
like in life, it's like up hereit is, you know, and it's like
I'm telling you I just wish more, more people could see.
And that's why I'm like I'm soblessed because I've got to like
I was exposed to, to not justlike seeing people that are

(59:23):
talented and good and likethat's what this, even this
podcast, does.
It's it gives you like an innerdepth or like an inner sight to
seeing someone, but I got tosee like what it looks like,
yeah, and I'm just like, and alot of times like, if you're not
there, it looks crazy.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
That's why it looks crazy, tyler like I feel like
you know what I'm saying itlooks nuts like.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
You're like there's no way, like until you're
exposed to it.
Yeah, then you're like this iswhy you're there and this is why
I'm here.
Or this is why I'm here andyou're there, like you see it,
but it's controllable too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It comes down to discipline and how bad you want
it.
You know, and that's what Ilike.
I like to open the window forpeople because it was open for
me.
You know, I worked at likereally horrible jobs early on.
You know, around really richpeople and when I started
noticing that they were normalbut they had a certain set of
habits and discipline and,honestly, in some ways the most

(01:00:20):
successful ones were the onesthat really did have those
normals.
It wasn't the people with themost breaks.
They made an amount of successbecause they had some advantages
and things like that.
But this is all controllableand that's what I try to get
people out there thinking about.
And the second that they'rethinking about giving up was
probably the second they wereabout to make it like.

(01:00:41):
Do you know the the story ofthe uh guy from breaking bad
that he plays the villain?

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
who, uh, uh, it's all goodman, or um, I can't.
I can't, gustavo fring.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yes, thank you, I don't know if you know this, but
like right before um like hewas thinking about committing
suicide and he was trying tofigure out a way to make it so
his family could get the money.
He was a week away from doingthis, wow.
And he cast in the part ofBreaking Bad, which I've seen
him in a bunch of movies sincethen.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I loved his character , gustavo Fring, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
And it's just that crazy to me.
People are so close to givingup.
It's like it takes thediscipline and the start and
they're like motivation and thenit keeps, like Mr Beast, I
don't know, like 5,000 videosbefore he hit, 10,000 hits and
he says don't come to me untilyou've made 500 videos.
Right, he's like here's a kidthat had no advantage in the
world, he just wanted to makevideos.

(01:01:34):
Right, you know?
It's like uh the uh comedian,matt riff, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Right, right yeah, 10 years nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah, you too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
A Tik TOK video blasts him off, you know me and
him used to um, uh, we used togo ghost hunting and make, uh,
yeah, yeah, we used to go ghosthunting the other and, um, yeah,
just sketches and it's funny.
I remember Matt like sleepingon the couch.
Yeah, I would pick up Matt andwe'd go do like comedy and stand
up and stuff like that, but wewould just like hang out all the

(01:02:03):
time and Matt would sleep onlike his friend's couch, yeah,
for a long time, but he wasalways so like young, but he was
always like super talented,super good, still a good friend
of mine, like just a good person, but like that's what I'm
saying.
I got to see so much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Is he another one that worked hard and that got
there Very, very hard.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
But that's the thing is like.
I remember my sister called meonce and she was like how are
you so disciplined?
For real?
She was like you're the mostdisciplined person I've ever met
.
Like how?
And in my mind I'm like, oh,you think I'm disciplined.
Like this is what I'm thinking.
I'm like, if you think I'mdisciplined, I know some people

(01:02:52):
that I'm trying to get to.
Like there's levels I'm tryingto get to and there's levels I'm
trying to get to.
And that's when I realized Iwas like there's a difference.
There's like these, like I sayall the time, where it's like
you don't just land on top of amountain, that's what people
don't realize.

(01:03:12):
Like you don't like not okay,even on on matt, like I've seen
matt go through it.
You see what I'm saying.
Like have some bad shows likethat feel and I'm like that's
all right, it's good.
Like like a lot, like me,everybody.
It's like.
It's like we see these successstories, we we see these people

(01:03:36):
that are have this like level ofsuccess.
But it's like I've seen peopleovercome so much and still
continue to be great.
I've seen Matt overcome a lotand still be great.
I've seen every like a lot ofpeople I've seen like overcome
so much and still be great and,and a lot of people would have

(01:03:57):
stopped.
Yeah, a lot of people wouldhave been like all right, you
know what?
How long am I going to sleep onthis couch?
Like this is like I'm not gonna, you know.
So, like that resilience, thathard work, like it's a separate,
it separates you.
Yeah, like it's there's adifference between being okay,
being good, being great, beinglike phenomenal.

(01:04:17):
There's there's a differenceand it's there's a difference
between being okay, being good,being great being like
phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
There's, there's a difference and it's up here.
Yeah, you know, it's up here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
The wonderful thing, too, is like so much of the
world is not willing to do it,so that's the advantage to those
that are.
So I do, even with podcasts,even with like, like, the
information's out there, right,it's like we can listen to it
all day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
There's a lot of people that aren't willing to
like do what it takes for whatthey want.
No, you know, over and overagain, I work with small
business people all day.
You know I work with podcastersa lot.
You know it's like it all comesdown to the same thing.
It's just like going to the gym.
You can't show up one day andexpect abs.
right, it's all the same withevery single bit of anything you
want, and the other part ofthat is like you wouldn't even
want it.
If it was that easy, anyways,right, so Wouldn't even want it.
That's what set everybody apart.
You gave to the audienceexactly the value that I was

(01:05:05):
hoping today.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
And I think, folks, you can take a lot out of that
conversation if you really will.
It all comes down to discipline, desire and, you know, like
doing a lot of things that a lotof people won't do daily for
longer than you think at timesyou know it's like, but I hope
you got a lot out of that today.
Underdogs, can't wait to seeyou next time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Thank you, norm for coming in, of course, of course,
thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Do you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
want to shoot out any Instagram social media,
anything like that.
Yeah, just you know myInstagram.
Everything's my name at NormanTowns N-O-R-M-A-N-T-O-W-N-S.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
All right, my friend, and we'll have Norman again
sometime, and I'll wear adifferent pair of shoes than you
brought me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
See you next time.
All right, take care guys.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Hello and welcome to Underdogs, Bootstrappers and
Game Changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(01:06:11):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because their underdogs are
truly who change the world.
This is part of our content forgood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.