NO CASH, NO PROBLEM: HOW TO HUSTLE YOUR WAY TO THE TOP

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to underdogs, bootstrappers and
game changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(00:22):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our Content forGood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Underdogs,

(00:45):
Bootstrappers and Game Changers.
I'm so fortunate today, and soare you, to have my friend Zoe
with me today.
How are you doing, Zoe?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Thank you for having me.
I'm really excited.
Tyler has been telling me allabout everything really just
your entire journey, the podcastand so I'm really honored to be
here because, yeah, I just Ijust started telling my story
more openly and realizing howimportant it is to do that, so
I'm excited to share it andshare some things that maybe can

(01:15):
help others, Cause I wish thatI had more of that when I was
going through it.
So I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
No, yeah, it's like, um, underdogs.
I really it can be hardsometimes too.
It's like cause I need to vetpeople, uh to have them on the
show, because I'm veryprotective of you.
I can't accidentally have acourse seller that sells
something that's horrible foryou or something like that,
right, and so I take some timevetting people.
Um, and I've known Zoe for awhile and I uh I think amazing

(01:44):
things about her.
Um, I went through a processwhere I wasn't telling my story
to the world either, and I'vebegun doing it and my life has
improved exponentially becauseof it.
And uh it's not uncommon forsomebody to drop in my DMS and
say something you said last weeksaved my life.
Yeah, and so that's when werealized we have to do these
things.
And one thing recently you madea post about giving plasma away

(02:10):
.
And I'd like you to, if you can, weigh in on that story.
You made a post about givingplasma.
Times were hard.
Could you tell me a little bitabout that?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, so I was kicked out of my house.
I grew up in the south side ofChicago and my parents also out
of my house.
I grew up in the South side ofChicago and, uh, my parents also
turned off my phone and so Iwas just kind of stuck because
there was, um.
I couldn't get to the next stepwithout, like, simply, a phone.
You know, luckily, um, I had afriend who I could stay with, so

(02:43):
I wasn't homeless by any meansas far as actually being without
a home, but a phone andcommunication in this world is
really important.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
And so I just collected my resources and tried
to figure out.
I was always doing things liketrying to babysit or rake leaves
or shovel snow, all of thosethings, but I found out you
could get $40 for donatingplasma, um, and so I did that
too so that I could collect orso that I could turn my phone
back on Um and then I couldapply to jobs because I'd have

(03:17):
somewhere that they could callme back.
So, uh, yeah, I did that untilyou could only go every whatever
two days until cause you, yougive your, you give your blood,
and then they take all theplasma out and then put the
blood blood back in and thenyour plasma regenerates and then
you could do it again.
So that's what I yeah, I did tolike pay my phone bill.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I went through that too.
It's like giving away plasma toum to eat Right.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
And underdogs.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
We're going to get to Zoe success story too.
It's just like I want to showyou another path you know, and
then uh, on another personthat's been the underdog and
also like wait until you hearwhat she's up to.
But sometimes it starts withgiving blood for a meal right,
you know.
And then like one thing that'sfunny is when I used to go in
there, I'd look at the peoplethat were giving away the blood.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
And.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I remember this one lady even asked.
She was in there basicallybecause she thought they gave
you an STD test before that, soshe was only there for the STD
test.
She was pretty rough lookingand I was like thinking to
myself like, as I'm lookingaround at the other people that
are in there and I'm sure yousaw this too it's like my

(04:28):
blood's going to be likesuperhuman compared to like the
people that are in here.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah yeah, it's definitely very scary Like uh, I
didn't want to be there,obviously it's sketchy folks.
It's sketchy and like being awoman and like, uh, there's a
lot of people.
Well, the good thing is they dodrug tests and that's to be pan
, so like at least everyone'skind of like clean you know, or

(04:50):
if it's their second time ormore.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
If you saw them, you wouldn't want this blood though.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Right, yeah, and um, plasma, everyone needs a plasma
or people need the plasma.
But I sometimes I think too.
I look around like in's worldwhere the underdogs?
Today there is so much otheropportunities that you don't
have to go do that.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Because I'm like I wish there was, I would have
went on, or if I could figureout how to Uber Eats or all of
those things or walk a dog.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
All the websites you can go on dog walk and stuff but
plasma.
It was the thing to do, I don'tknow.
It was just like there wasn'tas many like opportunities that
you could just like go on awebsite and you know, I agree a
hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
We were in really rough times.
My brothers and I and Iremember my brother had made
this uh, in woodshop he made abedside table and we sold it for
like 60 bucks, you know, andlike, and that was like an
amazing amount of money, or likewe couldn't.
We had a period of time and weactually had went homeless for a
little while and, um, we'reliving in the desert here in
Phoenix and uh, finally, like,we're able to move into a place

(05:58):
and we had no money for food.
My little brother happened tohave this, uh, millennium Falcon
Lego set and we sold thatonline and I, I think it got us
like $300.
That thing fed us for likeweeks.
Now.
Now my brothers have amazinghouses in Scottsdale.
One's a PhD, very successful,and so now we get to joke around
about these things.
You know, we bought actuallythe millennium Falcon Lego set

(06:20):
for my brother for Christmas,like again two Christmases ago
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Well, I was um, I would did that too.
I basically sold everythingthat anyone would buy until I
could.
Just, you know, so you couldget ahead.
And uh I was just talking tosomeone about this that like, uh
, it almost feels like once youget going, like those are the
hardest parts, but like, onceyou get going and you get a
little bit of, like consistentincome, it's so much easier,

(06:47):
like I almost feel like it'sunfair that like, once you have
a little bit of money, it's somuch easier to make more money,
but like you can't really dothat unless you have the work
ethic and so doing, goingthrough all those hard steps and
then, like now, being able toput it back into myself and into
the world.
It's sometimes I'm like, wow,like 18 year old Zoe would look

(07:11):
at me and be like, why does sheget free PR boxes?
She doesn't need it.
I could have used those PR boxesto eat you know, you know, the
money doesn't buy happiness andthat's the thing I try to get
across through my channels.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
a lot, you know, but it does buy, not struggle.
And that first step of notstruggling it's like, okay, you
know, it's like a lot of peoplethat are struggling.
Then they can't pay theirinsurance for their car and the
next thing you know, you getpulled over.
And then the next thing youknow, your driver's license is
taken.
It's such a horrible system andpeople don't realize that
they're like well, how do you?
You know, it's like gettingeking out of that system somehow

(07:45):
is like the first step, likegetting enough money to get that
tool.
And I just want to actually addthis here the Stuart
Butterfield, who founded a slack, he's a billionaire and he like
weighed in on, like the effectsof being a billionaire on his
life and he like basically saidjust what I said.
It's like money at first buysyou the like you don't have to
worry about bills anymore.
That is like such an amazingstep.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, or the stress of like.
I remember even I was likedoing I was much in a much
better spot, but like someonebroke my like uh, you know five,
six years after that, likesomeone broke my car window and
it's like and they stole mybackpack with my school, my, my
homework in it.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
And.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm like ah, like it's just like, you know, you
have your, you have enough moneyfor your bills, and you're so
proud of yourself.
But then, like, something likethat comes up and you're like
great, Now I'm like set behindagain and it's like uh, money
doesn't buy happiness.
But like now, if somethinghappens like that, I'm like, ah,
damn, that sucks.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
But like we'll just deal with.
Hire a repair person.
Yeah yeah, fix it on site,cause you don't have the time.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, but that stuff used to crush me, Like I would
be just you know, and I wouldcomplain about it too and like
cause it is like very valid tocomplain about things that suck?
Yeah, Like totally.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
I mean, stuart Butterfield talks about the um,
the value of not struggling, andthen pass that folks, and this
is a good uh delineation of theimportance of money.
It's like he said, the nextimpactful thing in his
billionaire life was the factthat he went to a restaurant and
didn't have to worry about whatanything costs anymore, which
is fun.
I don't know if you grew upgoing to restaurants.
We never could go to them as akid.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
My parents.
I almost said the my address ofmy home because my, my dad,
would always be like.
It's a address, a Mozartrestaurant, you know like so
they'd be like we're eating athome.
It's the restaurant at home.
You know, cause I we'd alwayswant to even just like
McDonald's and it's like nope,we're eating at home.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, no same same with us, you know.
And so now I thoroughly enjoyevery time I get to go out to
you know, and that's the thing,underdogs too.
It's like you might, you'd belike, oh, I don't have this, I
don't have that.
It's like when you turn the keyon your brand new car, you
enjoy it exponentially more thanother people.
When your windshield breaks, youknow, and you have the money to
pay it.
You enjoy it exponentially morethan other people when you can

(10:02):
buy your own meal and you canhave the steak and you can have
the lobster at the same time.
It's like you're going to enjoyit exponentially more.
And the third item he said islike taking vacations and not
worry about the cost.
That was the impact of abillion dollars, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Well, yeah, and I would add to that the not being
able to take care of yourself isreally great, but then being
able to take care of others iseven better, like being able to,
like, buy someone else thatmeal, like I think you saw my
post on Instagram where it was,uh, I wrote like a letter to
myself.
It's that trend.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
And um, it was just like talking about like I
wouldn't go to things because Idon't want to show up and not
get coffee because it'sembarrassing, like I can't
afford it and I don't wantanyone else to pay for me, like
I don't want anyone to like feelbad or whatever.
And so in the post I wrote likedon't worry, I'll buy yours too
.
And like being able to like helpother people through that and

(10:55):
supply jobs.
I've I've helped some of mylike just really hardworking
friends who deserve to make alot of money, given them
opportunities to get jobs, andlike that is even way better
than even just being able tolike support yourself, you know
that's why we need more underdogs making it to success.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
If you watch my show, you know exactly that's what
the premise is.
That's why I spend my time onthis podcast for charity.
You know because I believe thesame way.
It's like success has anobligation and kindhearted
people brought to success changethings that they, you know,
value.
You and I felt struggle, so wewould like to make struggle
easier on other people.
Right and that's why we have toget to our success.

(11:36):
What was your like journey fromlike giving plasma to now?
Like I know that you're doingamazing and you have your own
company, you know, and like I'veseen the clients that you're
working with and things likethat, walk me through a little
bit of that so the audience cankind of tell your path.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, it was honestly like just a little step forward
.
Every single like moment Icould get one.
And also, it was, um, I see alot of people struggle who won't
stoop down, you know, and I waswilling to like stoop below,
you know, which is like such aninteresting concept, but like I

(12:12):
got and the mindset was like ahuge part of it.
So during the plasma donatingphase I was really, really
negative.
I remember being like, whywould anyone hire me?
I don't have the my bestexperience.
I remember being like, whywould anyone hire me?
I don't have the my bestexperience I have was caddying
and carrying golf clubs, likethat doesn't translate to
anything and like all like I was.

(12:33):
Just my thought process was sonegative.
Yeah, and uh, I don't know howI thought about this or thought
of it, or I think I actuallyread, like it's so cliche, but I
think I read the secret.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
It's like your thoughts are everything.
And so I started writing downmy thoughts and like seeing
tangibly how negative they were,and so I would actually like
write down, like, oh, I can'tlike, why would anyone hire me?
And I would scratch it out andI would write like I am so
capable of learning things, I'mpassionate, I'm a pleasure to be
around.
Anyone would like love to, justlike I.
I, I will learn, I will listen,I will work hard and I w I just

(13:13):
like did that and and um, I didit for months and months and I
eventually trained my brain andand like I'll come back to this
too when I'm in like a negative,like I see myself going into
negative thought patterns, and Iswear that like that exercise
got me to the next step ofsimply just being going to

(13:35):
interviews and being more likeconfident.
And so I ended up getting a jobat planet fitness and Culver's
the food place.
At the same time my schedule.
I was so tired.
My schedule was horrible.
It was like 6 am to 2 pm.
I would take the bus to PlanetFitness 6 am 2 pm, work, take

(13:55):
the bus straight to Culver'sdown on the other side of town
and work till 1 am, when weclose the kitchen, and then just
do it again and like every oncein a while I would only have
one of the jobs.
But, um, I ended up I I wasalways wanting to be like
healthy and fit and stuff, but Ithought I would love working at
planet fitness.
But I actually enjoyed workingat Culver's even more, which is

(14:19):
a fast food place, and it was.
It is one of those things whereyou you don't want to stoop
below your that, your level orwhatever but it was so fun and I
learned so much and I actuallyworked in the kitchen and I my,
I, my job was literally to dressthe buns and like I would, you
know, do work in the kitchen andit.

(14:40):
I thought it was so fun to likebe efficient and like you have
like all these people waitingand they're waiting on efficient
and like you have like allthese people waiting and they're
waiting on you and like they'rehappy eating your food and
you're working as a team becauseI'm making the the, the buns,
he's making the uh burger, he'sover there on the grill Like and
you it's like uh, you reallyhave to work and then it's busy
and so you have to cut all theingredients and make sure you're

(15:02):
prepared for the next busy time.
And like I didn't think I would, really I didn't know I would
learn anything from working fastfood, you know.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Gosh, there's like 47 things that I could unpack
there that would be sobeneficial to my audience, but
it's funny Anytime I'm runacross an underdog.
I was a two job always persontoo.
You know it's like and anytimeI ran across an underdog, that's
what we dug did to dig out ofthe hole.
You know I make training videosaround this stuff too.
It's like my first trainingvideo says you're going to hate
this task, go out and get twojobs.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I mean cause, look what it taught you above
everything else, you know.
And you don't like, even if youdon't think you're going to
like it.
And, honestly, some of thepeople I think some of the
underdogs are actually the oneswho who are willing to do it,
but the ones that are like justright above the underdogs, who
have kind of like a plan B youknow, where they can like, stay

(15:52):
at home until they findsomething.
They want.
They're not as willing to like,do that.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
You're probably dead right.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
And I.
Those are some of the people Isee struggle, even maybe more
than some of the underdogs in inyou're right, no choice is good
yeah.
Yeah.
And so, like I never had, likeI didn't have a choice, you know
, so it was like I could juststay in that like negative
mindset and just stay where Iwanted, or stay where I was, or
like just accept something toget you ahead, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yes and that, like I'm constantly telling underdogs
, there actually is hugeadvantages to it, and I get a
lot of hate for it because Iactually think underdogs are
more prepared and the ability toovercome adversity is proven to
be the number one success trait.
It's like the two jobs like I'malready seeing, as you're
talking about loving the like,expiration of the bun and stuff
like that.
I'm positive you brought thatinto your business Everything.

(16:49):
Yeah, you know it's like wedon't know it's like my worst
job.
I was like, uh, I took what Ithought was below, you know,
because I had some success earlyin life with the sales job and
stuff, and so then I had tobackpedal because we were
homeless.
You know, I just had to takewhat I could get.
I ended up working at thiscountry club which I absolutely
hated.
I hated it with a passion, Likethey treated me so poorly.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
That's so crazy.
We have the same thing.
Cause I did I.
My first job was a caddy when.
I was 13 and I would carry golfclubs.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
But did you like it?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
I actually you know what I hated about it?
Huh, um, I was so uncomfortableuncomfortable around wealthy
people but, it taught me a lot.
Like I just sat there and Iobserved and I was terrified,
though I was like, please,nobody asked me where I'm from,
please, like I don't know how tocommunicate with these people,
cause I literally don't knowwhat words, what these like the

(17:32):
words are.
I don't understand, it's adifferent language.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
And it was so uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Gosh, it's so like, the similarities are so like,
but you know, I remember likesomebody asked me what my dad
did.
You know, because when you'reyoung, they always ask what your
parents did.
And so my dad was a professionalfreestyle skier but he was also
in jail for dealing drugs andum, at that moment, you know.
And so they asked me what mydad did.
I'm like, oh, he wasprofessional freestyle skier and

(17:59):
I didn't want to go into thesecond part, obviously.
And so then they're like,what's his name?
And then they Google him rightthere and then the only thing
that comes up is this FBI thing,you know is like and like to
your point.
It's like you're always afraidabout talking about where you're
from, you know, but what ittaught me and what I tell
underdogs all the time, ittaught me the normalcy of rich
people seeing it possible.

(18:19):
I call it because they were nosmarter, they weren't harder
working, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, that's actually the thething that I see, and I actually
see this in business a lot,because maybe we'll get to like
what I do today.
But like what got rid of myimposter syndrome in business
was seeing all these foundersjust like making dumb mistakes
and I'm like this is actually soinspiring because if I know how

(18:48):
to fix this, and they're comingto me and like they're so
successful, likemultimillionaires, but they're
like a shit show behind thescenes, like it's so motivating
Nobody's better than you.
I can do it.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, nobody's better than you, and that, like that's
why.
Another thing in that videothat I'm talking about, I said
go get a job around rich peopleCause.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I do have a little chip on my shoulder about it too
, because they didn't treat mefair.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
You know, it's like I was a valet in the morning,
starting at four o'clock in theafternoon and then at one
o'clock I would transition overto bartending until 10 o'clock
at night and I was going toschool full time too, and it's
like they didn't treat me right.
But like my and like this issomething employer you to think
about is like my revenge in thatmoment.
And some people were just like,oh, I'm going to get that guy's

(19:32):
car as slow as possible.
You know it was like screw him.
I did the opposite.
I was like, sir, you've neverseen somebody hit my get your
car so fast.
I sprinted a huge parking lotat 140 degrees here.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Killed them with kindness.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I absolutely did and that was my revenge because I
brought that work ethic into mybusinesses.
Yeah, right, and then that likeit was one of the biggest gifts
, even though I hated it so much, you know in so many ways, and
it's it's so fun to hear likeyou bolster every single thing
that I like talk to underdogsabout.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, and then there's like there's a couple
different things aboutsurrounding yourself with, like
wealthy people.
Uh, it's that of like you kindof just like get exposed to it
but then also, yeah, youdesensitize to it.
But then you also, once you getto like not when I was 13 and a
caddy until 13 through 16 yearsold like I couldn't.

(20:22):
Maybe I wasn't going to meetanyone like to give me an
opportunity.
But who knows?
But like now, um, and in theselast you know years, like eight
years to 10 years uh,surrounding yourself with
wealthy people gives youopportunity.
Like it gives you it like you ifyou're a pleasant person and
you ask them questions.
And like you're, they'rewilling to talk like that A lot

(20:42):
of them, especially if theystarted as under're.
They're willing to talk likethat A lot of them, especially
if they started as underdogs.
They're willing to help too.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
And so you surround yourself with them and they you
always hear people say is likesurround yourself with who you
want to be, um, and you also getto pick what you like and what
you don't like about, like howthey treat people.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I agree a hundred percent.
It's like the parallels areastounding between, um, you and
I on that.
So get me to the plasma.
After giving plasma, um, let'sgo into like how did working
plasma to working in a hamburgerstand parlay into like what was
next?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah.
So then, um, I was really intofitness.
Um, I ended up like kind oflike running away from my
hometown and moving to NorthCarolina, which was actually
good because the cost of livingwas much lower.
Um, and then I ended up, though, like taking another little
step back and I got a job at afrozen yogurt shop and it was

(21:43):
minimum wage in North Carolina,$7 and 25 cents, um, and I ended
up I ended up moving in with mynow ex, but that was like it's
such an interesting thing too,because we definitely moved in
together way too quick, but itwas like it did help, like with
us.
Our rent was only $800, 800 amonth, so we just split, like,

(22:06):
and that was like my entirepaycheck yeah but like at least
we like had our own place.
Like I remember um getting intothis house or like being able to
get this house and um beinglike, wow, I'm so I and I was
like, I was so proud of myself,obviously like from, like, from
going you know, and um this.

(22:27):
But I would have like otherpeople come over who were kind
of acquaintances and they'd belike, oh, like it's kind of like
outdated and like and like oh,a chain link fence, and I'm like
I never even noticed there wasa fence.
It's cool, I have a fenced yardand it's so interesting to like,
uh, just the parallels of, likedifferent people's perspectives

(22:49):
and stuff.
But, um, so, yeah, I ended upworking at a frozen yogurt shop
and then, because I was able tolike um, get to, I was able to
have a little bit more time.
I didn't have two jobs anymore.
Um, so I went back to schooland I um this was another thing
that was really challenging,that I'm sure underdogs faces I

(23:10):
didn't have credit and I didn'thave anyone who would co-sign
for me to get a loan for school,and so I just had to save up
money to pay for school out ofpocket, and so I would pay, I
would save up, and I went to thecommunity college and I really
did think that I had to go tocollege.
Like I didn't really understand, like, well, what else could I

(23:31):
do?
And so I was just, you know,working and then paying for a
class here and paying for asmuch as I could, and but still
working.
Like working, I think, was thebest part of like working.
But not stay like being sohappy to have a job and you're
not.
You're kind of just like you'regetting through, going through

(23:51):
the motions, and maybe you'renot even doing a good job
because you don't care about it.
That's also the worst thing youcan do.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh, agreed.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
So, like if you're gonna like, if you're gonna
stoop down and like, accept whatyou can get just to do the like
, do the best that you canbecause you'll be more, you'll
be like way happier, and likeit's the worst thing you can do
is have a negative mindset andlike you never know what the
like people around you are like.

(24:34):
If you're a bad worker andyou're you're sitting next to
someone who's going to own theirown business the other day, the
next day, then they're nevergoing to give you an opportunity
.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
No, you never know who's watching.
I tell this story all the time.
I like I like Cold Stone a lot.
And so I go in one day to ColdStone and this kid's in there
and he's like you could be thatattitude.
It's like I'm just here toscoop ice cream or whatever.
Instead, he's got the music uploud, he's kind of rocking out,
he takes your order or whatever.
He throws the ice cream up intothe air and he catches it
behind his back and instead oflooking at it as his job that he

(25:08):
was just going to humdrumthrough, he did it fantastic.
You know, and this was at apoint I had just sold my last
company.
I wasn't ready to jump back in.
I was like thinking to myself Iwould hire that kid.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I would invest in that kid.
I'm going through that processright now because I'm hiring in
Arizona, but I'm having a hardtime finding really good people.
I think good people are justkind of hard to come by in
general.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
They are.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I am actually telling myself I need to go out and,
instead of going through thedrive-thru, I need to go into
the retail stores and talk topeople, because the next person
that I see is doing a good job.
I'm going to ask them for theirinformation and offer them an
interview, like that's.
That's my, my tactic to findpeople.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
And even if it wasn't that, you know it's like you do
.
People are like I'm going to bethis crappy worker and then the
second I go into my ownbusiness, I'm going to be
amazing.
You can't practice being badand then being good.
And not only that, but ifyou're a crappy worker in
somebody else's business, what'sto say?
You deserve a good worker someday and it's habits.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
People don't understand that, like your
habits really do shape you nomatter what you're doing.
So exactly what you said.
If if you're like an not agreat worker here, you might,
it's likely that you're not agreat worker when you're doing
what you actually think you wantto do.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Underdogs are the best workers always, and then,
in fact, it actually is a curseat times, because then what
happens is like they wouldactually be the best people to
open businesses, but they, uhthey, you know, are such a good
employee, you know that theystay.
You know because they don'tknow any other way.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Also we like to um, unfortunately.
Fortunately, we like to get thepraise from others because we
might not have gotten it when wewere younger.
And so it feels really good tolike make others proud, and so
sometimes, like I struggle withthat today of like I um, I
struggle when I like with my ownboat business and I'm my own

(27:01):
boss, Cause there's no one totell me like wow, you're doing a
great job.
I don't have anyone to impressbesides myself, really, and like
that's kind of hard for me,like just being vulnerable, like
it's nice to like do a good jobfor someone else and like I
could see, and I think I meanI'm still I'm still young but
like I think that if I didn'thave that aspect of like a lot

(27:23):
of times I've tried to startsomething on my own, but like
when, when I fail myself, it'slike, oh, whatever, I'll just go
back to work and but like if Ifail someone else, I just won't
fail someone else.
So it's like a flaw that Idefinitely like have, but I've
recognized and, um, how I'veovercome it is I, uh, I now have

(27:46):
an executive assistant andshe's amazing, she's.
Jackie, um, she, um, she's myboss, she is my boss, and like
she is my accountability, andlike I tell her, like you, you
are my boss, like I want to makeyou proud and I don't want to
disappoint you or make your lifeharder, so she's my boss.
And like that's how I getthrough, like that like underdog
kind of flaw of like wanting tolike make someone else proud,

(28:08):
to get the praise.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
It's tough.
You know, when I first startedmy first companies it was there
was a lot of hate involvedbecause people didn't treat me
fair.
I wasn't given very manyopportunities.
You know, told I was stupid inmy youth, that sort of stuff and
that like prove them wrong eventhough they weren't watching.
And what's crazy, actually theguy that gave me the most hell
in my life was the assistantprincipal and it was cause I was

(28:30):
the poor kid I smelled likecigarettes, cause my parents
smoked.
I still have never had acigarette in my life, you know,
and it's like, but anything goeswrong, like I was the one
grabbed and I'm not a thief.
Anything's stolen grab, tyler,you know it's like and that, and
it's crazy.
I don't wish this on him, on theman, you know it's like, but he
was like a lot of times theface I saw anytime I thought
about quitting and um, and itwas crazy.

(28:51):
The day I sold the or signedthe dotted line on selling my
first company, which I guessthat would make, maybe make that
was the moment I became success.
I don't know that man passedaway the very same day.
So I think don't know that manpassed away, Wow, the very same
day.
So I think you know and I don'twish that on him by any means,
I don't wish his death, but itis crazy that the moment I

(29:13):
didn't need it anymore, itwasn't there anymore, right, and
so it's like life will get youwhat you need if you'll pay
attention to it.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
The other thing I noticed too is like life is
really scary, especially whenyou don't have money and somehow
it like as long as you justkeep going, it it like takes
care of you, like I've hadreally like odd things happen to
me where I've, you know, I Ialso like so I got ahead but
then I got behind again and thenI just think that's like life.
I ended up after the wholefrozen yogurt shop I, you know,

(29:48):
I got I um ended up workingmyself up into I um got a job at
GNC and then it was like reallyinteresting and I worked myself
up into management.
But then I went through abreakup and I wasn't making that
great money.
Breakup and I wasn't makingthat great money.
But to me it was better to umget out of that relationship

(30:08):
than to have, like security andmoney.
And I don't know like I justdecided that it'll life will
figure itself out.
I didn't know how, but I justput myself into a lot of debt to
get out of the relationship andum before I knew it.
And then I didn't know likesometimes like it'll get harder
before it gets.

(30:28):
A lot of times it gets harderbefore it gets better.
But like.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
I put myself into what you need, even the hard
stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, I put myself into a bunch of debt to just
like live in, like live on myown, and then, um, I ended up
getting a flare up of psoriasiswhich was like I'd never had
psoriasis before and I had thisentire my, my whole body was
head to toe rash and painful andjust um, I went.

(30:54):
So then I had to put myself intodebt for like medical bills
because I was just in pain andlike this, the UV treatment for
it was like the only thing thatwould help.
But it was $80 a session and Ikind of got confused, because
when you're like in pain you dowhatever you know, and I thought
that it was $80 beforeinsurance but it was after and
it was coming three times a weekand then, before I knew it,

(31:16):
they're like okay, your bill isdue.
And I'm like what, what is Idon't?
I thought that, like, I wasjust all confused, and so I put
myself I ended up being a 20,like $5,000 in debt before I
knew it.
Um, but like, and I'm feelingso lost and not being like not
understanding, like even like doI put my, like?

(31:37):
I don't even know where to putmy paycheck.
Like, obviously, I know I needto like pay my rent, like and
and feed myself, but with theextra money, like, do I put it
on the credit card or do I putit into savings or do I like?
And I remember just being sodiscouraged because, like, the
credit card bill was goingfaster than I could pay it off,

(31:59):
and it's just like.
Interesting things just kepthappening, though, where it
would be like an opportunity tomake a thousand dollars here
with like a um influencer deal,or like um, I went to the
dentist and they were like, oh,actually you, um, you overpaid,
um and uh, before, like twoyears ago, and so we owe you

(32:19):
$800.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
And like I'm like wow , it's just like crazy Sometimes
, like as long as you just keepgoing and you just like tell
yourself like life will figureitself out, if you just keep
being a good person and and justlike working hard, it'll figure
itself out.
And it does like it really does.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I totally believe in that, and sometimes you have to
reframe the hard stuff you'regoing through.
You know it's like I like.
I'm not even the only personthat says this.
I have bad luck.
You know, like everything badthat will happen.
A lot of times happens to me.
I've almost died overseasseveral times.
Stuff's happened to me inbusiness that you'd never even
heard of.
You know enough to the pointwhere everybody told me to write
a book and I did on this badluck.

(32:59):
And so I always looked atmyself like at first I described
it as Mr Magoo.
Do you know, mr Magoo?
He's a little bit old for you,but he would go like, uh, he'd
be walking around, he can't seevery well, he walks off a
building, which is bad luck,right, but a board would swing
in in just in time and save hislife.
And so Mr Magoo is like thisand that's my life for the most
part is like something horriblewould happen.

(33:20):
The beam swings in the way justbefore catastrophe.
And I was looking at my lifethat way but I can't control
that Right and that was not agood mindset for me overall.
And then I decided one day Ilooked, started looking at the
story of Rocky, and Rocky waslike all this stuff kept going
at him, you know, and there's apart that he says basically it
was like life's going to throwpunches and it's like you got to
keep walking forward and it'slike, no, I'm not Mr Magoo, I'm

(33:43):
Rocky, because life throws stuffat me and I keep walking
forward and I can control that.
Yeah so you have to control yourown narrative.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, and the other thing, like again for the
underdogs, uh, I remember mylike just feeling.
Um, like sometimes it'sactually kind of hard for me to
even like remember how I felt,because I'm so far from that now
that like I feel so much better, like mentally and like health

(34:12):
wise, and everything that like Ican't believe.
When I like think about it, I'mlike I can't believe I got out
of it because it when you're init, it feels just like
treacherous and like that it'llnever get better and um, like,
it just is a hard place to beright, like.
But now I'm, I'm like so muchfar, farther ahead and I like I

(34:36):
forget that I even felt likethat ever.
Like it's like, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
You could be so close the guy.
Have you ever seen the showbreaking bad?
Okay, do you know the guy thatplays Gus the bad guy?
He's the uh, I think he'sHispanic or something.
He plays the drug Lord, so heactually, um, he was
contemplating his own death forthe insurance money to leave

(35:01):
something behind for his family,literally like within, I think,
days of pulling it off.
And he cast that part, which nowI've seen him in all kinds of
stuff.
So how many people out thereare just about to give up?
I mean Matt Rife.
He toured for eight years, Ithink, and then one TikTok video
launched him to stardom.
Mr Beast put out like 550videos before he hit.
It's like everybody is this.

(35:22):
If they only knew they werethis close.
You know, but you only know ifyou keep going.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
And that's the other thing.
When we were talking about,like surrounding yourself with
people, like I meet so manypeople every day and or I do so
many different things and justlike you never know, like what's
going to happen and like whatthat one thing is going to, that
one person that you meet, orthe one like piece of content
that you put out um that changesyour life.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
We're in such a change your life spectrum right
now.
It could be one YouTube video,it could be one business, it
could be one conversation.
These things, if you're open toit, will completely change your
life.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah and uh.
So after, uh, you know, I'm inmy my debt and I actually just
it wasn't that long ago that Ipaid off my debt.
It was just like I finally gotout of it.
Like I've kind of just startedto like ignore it, because I'm
like, oh God, like I actuallycompared it to people who have
student loans, because Ithankfully never had student

(36:18):
loans because I would just payout of pocket and I actually
never ended up finishing.
I just started, I just keptworking and working and then
being like, wow, now I'm like ontrack to make more money than I
would if I finished school.
So I kind of I just took a break, and that's.
The other thing is, schoolnever goes away.
You can go to school atwhatever age you are.
Like what it's, there's no agelimit on school.

(36:39):
So like, if you don't want togo to school and you don't like,
that's not the only option.
Like it really isn't.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Advice because we change Right and like if you
would have put 18 year old meinto school, like what he
studied compared to I think Ilike I actually started around
23 and I ended up going intobiochemistry that would have
never been the 18 year old metrack, right, and you know.
It's like so you do evolve, youknow, and like that's why
you're better off gettinginvolved a little bit too, you
know.

(37:05):
Or like I volunteered at theanimal shelter for a couple of
years.
I originally was on a track tobe a vet.
I even submitted mydocumentation to apply for
school and then I realized, frombeing there for years, it's
like I want to make an impact.
I think I can do somethingbetter, right, not better More
of.
I mean, for me business is theimpact, right, and I realized

(37:29):
that at some point.
So to your to cause I thinkit's such a great point I want
to back it up is that schooldoesn't need to be today.
Yeah, experience it.
And then, if you want tograduate more into that realm,
it's like, let's say you want tobe a doctor, maybe go work at a
doctor's office for a littlewhile Vets office, you know,
like law law office and then youmight find out that, like you
know how many doctors end upquitting yeah, it's like 70%.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Or you see how miserable they are.
And you're like.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Dennis are the number one people that commit suicide.
You know it's like, so might aswell go try it out first.
To your point.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah and uh, going to community college was really
helpful because I was surroundedby people like of all ages and
it it uh exposed me to like oh,I really can like come back.
I'm not it's not surrounded bylike a bunch of 20, 21 year olds
Like it's a big room full oflike misfits that are like just

(38:14):
trying to do better forthemselves and like I could go
back whenever I want it, if I,if I needed it, you know
community college is anexcellent environment for that
reason, because it's like Inever experienced the party
culture of university.
Right, I just got the work part.
I'm so glad that I didn't getcaught up in it.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
And that's why I think community college is a
good step, because that's allthe people that are working
right.
University is like there's ahalf there that are just getting
paid to be there, you know, ortheir parents are paying for
them to be there.
They get to have all the funthey want, you know.
It's like I think it's a betterenvironment to start to like
buckle down.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
And it's like a little bit demoralizing.
I remember so I did, uh, beforeI went to a university for one
semester and I really like feltlike shit being around people
who could like go out and partybecause I needed to go work, so
I could like I couldn't evenafford to party, like I couldn't

(39:06):
afford one drink or anything,so like it just is demoralizing
to be like around it.
Unfortunately.
Plus, they have all the time inthe world all the time and like
yeah, it's like sad, it's justlike a not a happy place to be.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
I went.
So my undergrad wasbiochemistry and, uh, it's a
long story, which I'm sure I'vetold on this podcast or will,
why I chose that track.
But it was mostly I wanted tobe helpful in the world and I
wanted to have a skill, and so Iwas looking at medicine or
veterinary and I remember I wentin like um, uh, this is year
two and I'm working full timecause I have to.
My dad had just gotten out ofprison.
I was supporting both of us.

(39:41):
You know it's like, and I'mgoing to school full time in a
biochemistry track.
Oh, this is a lot of work, right?
And I go in and see thecounselor, um, to talk about med
school and she's like you'renot making enough sacrifices.
You know you needextracurriculars, you need all
this stuff, and it's like notmaking enough sacrifices.
You know it's like and that's.
You know that's.

(40:01):
That's frustrating to thatpoint.
You know it's like, but like itgave me everything I needed to
know within school.
You know it gave me theeducation.
It gave me the work ethic.
You know it's like business.
It perfectly prepared me forbusiness because those amount of
hours and stress parlayed intobusiness at some point.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, yeah and uh, sometimes it makes me a little
bit like I have to remember thatlike, uh, the underdog work
ethic is not like what youshould expect out of everyone,
or you can't, because likeyou'll just get disappointed,
because I, when people will likecomplain about uh work and
stuff, I'm like oh, but you'reonly working 40 hours a week.

(40:41):
What are you?

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
It feels like part time you have all of the time in
the world and like this is allyou have to worry about.
And it's really hard for me tolike, but I do have to remind
myself like not everyone isbuilt like that and they didn't
have to do that.
So, like, just have a littlebit more compassion, Zoe, but
it's like it's kind of hard.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Or I can't get to the gym, I work 40 hours a week, or
like you know.
It's like like that's what Iwant.
Our, our, our underdogs areimportant to understand.
It's like this actually is goodthing that you have to work two
jobs.
It's a good thing that you haveto work two jobs and find out
where you're.
Uh, you know like your fitnessis going to come in, because
then you're perfectly preparedfor business, cause I don't care
what anybody tells you on theinternet and vouch for me here.

(41:23):
Is it 20 hours a week in allvacations?
No, no, yeah, they're lying tothem out there.
That's a big part of what thisshow is, because you see the
content.
I see, hey, the guy sitting inthe Ferrari that he probably
rented, saying buy, my course,it's a hundred dollars and
you'll never have to work again.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
The course, actually this like Scottsdale, but
there's a lot of course peoplehere.
I'm like, yeah, I try to likemake business friends and I'm
like, oh wait, you're a courseperson and I get it.
I respect the grind.
But then I'm like I I've beenrecently kind of been chased
down by some of these coursepeople who like want to use like
my face in their course andI'll ask them like well, what

(42:00):
are like the success storiesfrom your course, like do you
talk to?

Speaker 1 (42:03):
and I've never been able to give me like a no,
they're the product and I'm allright If somebody has an amazing
course that's doing something,but I find nine times out of 10,
it's like you're the product.
They've never opened a business.
They're going to teach you howto open your business.
You know it's like well, likeI've.
You know for a long time, butlike officially, like the last
four years and um and like itwas funny.

(42:28):
When I first started doing along time ago, it was like
people like me, they just didn'tknow any better.
They needed a place to get moreeducation.
You know it's like, even withyour debt, I could tell you how
to take care of your debt rightnow.
That would have been the rightway.
I could tell me too, yeah, atthe time you don't know, right,
and that's, that's the businessstuff too.
So that was the first kind oflike grayness for people you

(42:49):
know.
And then, like now it's ninetimes out of 10, when I'm
looking at a failing business,it's because they've hired a
consultant that doesn't knowwhat they're doing.
So the consultants, the coaches, are now destroying the
businesses.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Oh, I've seen it.
That's actually um, my businessnow is really like cleaning up
after messes and like like, yeah, it's pretty sad to see like
bad things happen to in people'sbusinesses when they trust
someone that like said they knowwhat they're doing.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
That's what it is.
It's the accountants, it's themarketers.
They're all robbing you andthat's why my stance on all this
.
I got a lot of hate because Iwas talking about Alex Formosi.
Do you know who that is?
So he had a video I watched onleverage and he was talking
about how to use your leverageto have success.
But the problem is people likeyou and I, when we start what's
the leverage Like?
You have to think of a boardlaying flat on the ground,

(43:37):
because leverage eventuallybecomes money, people, that sort
of stuff.
So if you're levering offnothing, it's nothing right, and
so you have to learn this stuff.
Even in my MBA program, theydon't teach me how to be the
world's best marketer.
They teach me enough to manageit, and that's what I want
people doing in their smallbusinesses.
Learn the marketing so you canmanage it.
Learn the accounting.
You don't need to knoweverything, but know enough to

(43:59):
manage it, and that's where youhave to start when you're a
bootstrapper anyways.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, or just like I don't.
I've been actually trying tofigure out if this is just like
a me thing or like if everyonecan do it.
But I'd hope.
I kind of like hope everyonecan do it, but like just teach
yourself how to do differentthings, like try it try it, and
sometimes it's confusing to methat, like when um people will

(44:23):
come to me and they're like,well, I don't know how to do it,
and I'm like, well, like didyou try and because that's
sometimes with my business, andagain I have to be like more
compassionate.
But this is where the underdogsreally like have an advantage.
Is that, like I, I refuse tojust like not know how to do

(44:45):
something.
You teach yourself how to dosomething and there's so many
resources now Everything's onthe internet and my whole
business.
I never had someone sit downand show me how to do it.
No, I just figured it out and Ido.
I've recently also learned thatI have like a neurodivergent
brain, if you know what thatmeans.

(45:07):
Um, but they I, so I am aproblem solver and I do think,
like think of things in adifferent way.
So maybe I and I think that isa beautiful thing, but, um,
still, I think that everyone haslike that problem solving in
them and so, like, if you're aproblem solver, then you can
figure anything out.
And so sometimes it just likedrives me crazy when people are

(45:30):
like, well, I can't figure outhow to do it and I'm like how,
like no one showed me how to doit on it, it's like I rebelled
against accounting like anybodyelse when I first started my
first business and I actuallyhave a three hour like story
that I tell now on how Irebelled and how I became the
biggest accounting nerd outthere.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right, you know, and I love accounting because it's
the only way to get good datafor your business.
You know, it's like Iabsolutely live for it and I
love kind of like laying thatout for people to solving that
problem.
But it's like, to your point,the more that you're willing to
dive in, you should build yourfirst website.
You know you should build yourfirst marketing plan.
You know it's like you shouldbuild all these things.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
How to not get scammed is knowing the
fundamentals.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
So, like you don't need to know you don't have to
be good at everything, but likeknow the fundamentals so that if
, when you hire help, you knowyou're not getting scammed.
That's you have to protectyourself.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
There's a great pod episode of my podcast.
The guy was a landscaper, builthis way up from one lawnmower
to a $30 million business, soldit, opened a tech company and
the first thing he did, you know, like what anybody else would
do is he hired a bunch of people.
He didn't know anything abouttechnology and they robbed him
blind.
So he ended up going back andlearning it enough to manage it.
And I want people to knowthings enough to manage it.

(46:45):
Right, if you get lucky and youhappen to come across that one
company that's like you or methat you can rely on as a team
bait, by all means, you know,but bootstrappers, you don't get
that Cause you got to do ityourself.
You don't have the money for us, you know.
And so, um, get me next to.
Okay, zoe moves out, right, uh,with her boyfriend struggling

(47:06):
financially, you get past themedical stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah.
So, um, then I'm uh, I had acouple really like hard living
situations too, because that'sthe other thing you kind of have
to like live where you, whereyou can, and just that's going
to be like as safe as you canget it so um, lots of struggle
throughout that of like, yeah,bad living situations, unsafe

(47:30):
things.
Um, my, when I I ended up movingback to Chicago and uh,
thinking that like how glamorousit is like downtown Chicago,
I'll manage a GNC there and notgood being on any store on the
bottom floor of Chicago is veryscary.

(47:53):
My store got like we had asecurity guard and the security
guard like got jumped in likethey beat the shit out of them
and the security guard, like gotjumped in, like they beat the
shit out of them bloodeverywhere, uh, just people
stealing shit all the time andlike, uh, I ended up just
feeling so, like threatened bygang members, and like it was
just not a good time and, um, Ifought through it but I probably

(48:16):
should have like left waysooner than I did.
But it you know it's scary whenyou have a consistent uh
paycheck and like you knowyou're not like you don't want
to be there, but like you're notreally sure what the next step
is.
But I was always doing thingsoutside of work that were like
um, building my personal brand,so like awesome putting content

(48:38):
out there for, uh, fitness, umstuff and and in connecting with
others like virtually, and so Ifeel like that kind of like has
always been a theme of likenetworking.
And then I got a offer, so Igot through it.
I ended up moving to I almostquit because of the threatened,

(48:58):
being threatened by the gang.
Stuff was really scary and Ididn't feel safe and so I told
them, like, if I'm, if I, if youdon't put me at another store,
I'm just quitting and I willfigure it out.
Um, so they put me at anotherstore and I ended up meeting um
again, like just like by luck orchance or being the right place
, the right time and workinghard, uh and doing a good job.

(49:21):
While I was doing it, I met theowners of Ghost and they're
this energy drink supplementcompany.
Ghost was under two years oldand I was going to be leaving
GNC because I finally had enoughcredit to get a loan so that I
could just focus on school.
Wow and so I was leaving GNCand I wanted to be a dietician,

(49:46):
and so when they heard that Iwas leaving.
They they asked me if I wantedto apply for a part-time
customer support job with them.
And I almost said no because Iwas like I felt like it was a
step in the in the wrongdirection, because I was just
managing I had, um, at thispoint managed, five different
GNCs.

(50:06):
And so going from like managingGNCs to part-time customer
support for a supplement companythat's not even two years old
this like little cool supplementcompany at the time, but like
it they're nothing Um, I almostsaid no because I just felt like
it was like a step in the wrongdirection.
But I um also had these kinds oflike aspirations and goals and,

(50:28):
um, wanting to, I I wantedmaybe one day to own my own
supplement company, and so Itold myself, like, even if
anything it's, it'll be good.
Like behind the scenes and likeso I can learn what it's like
to own a supplement company orbe like do all the things.
And so I took it, and it wasthat that, like by itself, was

(50:49):
probably the best thing I'veever done in my life, because it
taught me how to run ane-commerce business with my eyes
closed.
I was fixing all of theproblems for the company through
the customer's eyes, and so Igot obsessed with learning how
to you know your job essentiallystarts at just responding to

(51:11):
emails, but to actually do thejob, you need to know all of the
tech and how it?
all cooperates.
And then, if you want to make adifference, you're going to
figure out how to fix the issuesso they don't happen again.
And you're going to learn howto like take the feedback from
the customers that are upset andyou're going to tell the
founders in a in a tactical wayof how to like how you think

(51:35):
that they can change this in thecompany.
And so I learned how to operateall the tech the tech.
I learned how to work inShopify.
I learned how tocross-functionally collaborate
with the operations, logistics,warehouses, 3pls.
I ended up like also learningall like all kinds of marketing

(51:56):
things, because people wouldlike a link would be broken in
an email and so.
I'd I'd bring that up and saywhere, how do you even fix this?
Or like, what system did thiscome from?
Or what's the strategy?
And um, influencer marketingand uh all like literally
everything from customer support.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
And.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I got really addicted to it and I ended up like, um,
yeah, I moved my way up frompart-time to full-time and uh, I
remember like going into theoffice one day and Dan would
look and be like aren't yousupposed to be in class?
And like, yeah, uh, I justdidn't feel like going today.
And then, like, slowly butsurely, I I stopped going to
class, even though I it's at thetime like feel would feel so

(52:35):
dumb because I worked so hard toget into that goddamn dietetics
program at university ofIllinois in Chicago.
Like I worked so hard to getinto that goddamn dietetics
program at university ofIllinois in Chicago.
Like I worked so hard to getthere but I don't know.
I just like I was so likefixated on learning all of this
e-commerce stuff.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Um, and so then I'd even um, got to like yeah, so I
just ended up um working fulltime, and then I got uh promoted
eventually to the customersupport manager, and then I
would do, I would go um and likego, we opened up our own
warehouse, so I would fly toVegas and um, like help them
talk, tell them about like howannoying it is when, like

(53:15):
warehouses send the wrongproduct.
And like what can we do to makesure that every product is
scanned and checked so we neverhave to deal with like issues?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
And that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Worked with the quality, the quality of, like
any type of complaint.
I created processes for um lotcode tracking and all of this
stuff, and I um, I taughteverything to myself too,
because by just being curiousand asking questions uh I even
to the point where, likesometimes people will be like,
can you stay in your lane?

(53:45):
And I used to be like, oh God,that like maybe I should stay in
my lane, but I just wanted toknow how to do everything.
And like I saw that like therewas all of these different
functions that like I couldlearn about and I would just ask
questions and I would be alittle bit, probably annoying
and learn how to do it and thenbe told to stay in my lane and

(54:05):
be like, oh sorry, like you know, but um, that taught me so much
.
And then, um, random, we cameout with a gaming product, I.
So one of my things was a, uh,doing the twitch, helping out
with the Twitch community.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Oh cool.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
So then I learned how to do the Twitch community.
Covid happened, so then I woulddo my normal job, whatever 9 to
7, really, or 8 to 7.
It was a lot during COVID.
And then I would manage theTwitch community and then, as a
joke, I would play games withthe Twitch community too.
As, like a joke, I would likeplay games with the Twitch
community too, and like streamwith them.

(54:45):
Yeah.
So then I just started, I waslike playing games with them
anyway.
So I was like you know what, ifI'm going to play games that
I'm going to stream too, cause,like I'll just press, go live,
you know.
And I learned how to do it.
So you think you know somebodyyeah, so then I started
streaming and making more moneypart-time streaming eventually.
Wow, and I was at my job that Iloved playing video games and

(55:08):
streaming it.
Yeah, after work.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Uh.
Then I got an Instagram DM andit said uh, we think you'd be
great for this uh TV show.
And I was like uh, I thought itwas like there's no way this is
real, you know it's just.
Instagram DM and then I startedlooking up like who this person
was and it was like a castinguh, whatever director and um

(55:32):
they.
They were like.
We have this new um TV show andit'll be on this new streaming
platform called Peacock.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
And I was like this sounds like such a scam, Like
there's like, and it, um, it'sfilmed in Australia, which it
was 2021 at the time, and youcouldn't get into Australia
because of COVID.
They didn't let anyone in, um.
But then I I just was lookingit up I'm like I think this is
legit.
So I did the interview processand it took like six to eight
months to.
And I'm like I think this islegit.
So I did the interview processand it took like six to eight

(56:02):
months to, and I kept forgettingthat I was like in this
interview process because everyonce in a while, I'd get a call
and be like oh, hey, um,so-and-so the producers really
like you, uh, do you?
Are you like you're ready forthe next step?
And I just kept doing thesesteps every couple of months and
then, all of a sudden, it waslike I just kept doing these
steps every couple of months andthen, all of a sudden, it was

(56:24):
like, okay, well, if you want togo?
we're, we're um, we are sendingeveryone in like five weeks or
something crazy.
And I was like, oh shit, I haveto tell Dan and Ryan like it
goes, like, like, and talk tothem Like should I do this?
I don't even know if this likestreaming platform is legit,
like it's not.
I've never heard of this before.
Um, and so I ended up justtaking a leap of faith and doing
it, and so and I told myself,like, if it doesn't work out

(56:48):
like, I could always go, likethey would you know, give me my
job back at ghost and um, and Ialso was like, well, I'm making
good money playing video games.
Like, I'll just do that If likewhatever, who knows, I don't
know.
So I went to Australia.
I quit my job, I went toAustralia.
I filmed this little TV show.
It's on Peacock, it's um, it'scalled Frogger, it's like a

(57:10):
wipeout type show.
And it didn't give me like andlike anything besides like.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Uh, you know did you guys know we have the Frogger
person here.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Episode four Um or no , yeah, season person here
episode four, um or no, yeahseason one, episode four.
I'm like the gamer girl becausethat's awesome recruited me
because I was in gaming andfitness.
Oh okay, like it it does go toshow like anything you like you
explore.
It's crazy how it all like canconnect.
Like if I never put myself outthere about gaming, I would have
never had this cute littleopportunity to be on peacock and
and be on the show, and wedon't even know how you might

(57:45):
use that.
Yeah Well, and then I went home.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
In the future.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, and I was.
I mean, there's so many thingslike so many ways my life could
have gone to.
Because which is cool?
Because before you take whatyou can get.
Yeah, and now opportunity is soabundant.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
You get to choose, you know like, which is crazy.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
And so, like all of these, like there was a lot of
people who are on the show who,like that's what they did, they
would like do all of theselittle like reality shows.
And then, like one guy that Iwas on the show with, he ended
up being in the Barbie movie.
Oh, no way Like that's, and itwas kind of cool to see like, oh

(58:27):
, this is how people like getinto it.
They do like all these in andthe crazy thing is, once you get
through your background checkfor these, these things, they're
looking for people.
So, you're like, once you haveyour background check, like
they'll send you emails, like wewant people for this show and
this show, and you can go on,like all these or apply for all
these shows, because they simply, like need some people who have
already gone through the longprocess of the background check

(58:48):
and they just need bodies, likewow.
So I could have like leanedinto that if I really wanted to.
Um, but I was gaming.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
I played video games full time, paying my not making
crazy money, but like I paid mybills, playing video games.
Video games full-time paying,not making crazy money, but like
I paid my bills playing videogames Um.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
what was your game?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Uh, war zone Okay.
It was so fun I wasn't good atit it was more like a
entertaining with, like you know, it was like a podcast with
like games in the background.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Basically, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yeah, it was so fun, so fun.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
So what did you do when you went back?

Speaker 2 (59:19):
So then I got recruited.
So then again going to showwork hard and other
opportunities will come.
The old accountant at Ghostworked at Chomp's the meat
sticks.
He ended up going there andthey were looking for a customer
experience manager, which I wasat that point not really

(59:42):
wanting to get back intoe-commerce because, um, I I know
I loved it so much, but it wasstressful because I'm fixing all
these issues and mad customers,and yeah.
Yeah, and so it is like a lot.
And then I you put a lot onyour shoulders because you're
the, you're the like fixer, youknow.
So, it is a really like, eventhough you, you learn everything

(01:00:03):
.
It's a hard job and um.
So I wasn't.
I was like I, I'm not.
Uh, so the guy from um, he, hewas trying to recruit me or get
me to come work at chomps and Ikept saying no, because again
I'm like, I don't want to sellmeat sticks Like it was.
Chomps wasn't as big as it is,as it is today.
But, like I just was, like thatdoesn't seem glamorous to me,

(01:00:26):
Like selling meat sticks I'm notreally trying to be the meat
stick girl and so I said no,like two or three times.
And he kept messaging me, beinglike you should at least take
the interview, just take theinterview because, like uh, it
is a great company and you know,I did miss, like the um, the
fulfilling parts of it, theteamwork, and like the problem

(01:00:48):
solving problem solving all ofthat Um cause.
gaming and playing on Twitchlike really there's only like
two things you can get better atthe game or you can and you can
grow your audience, but likethat's kind of it.
You know it's not as fulfillingas you'd think but it was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I have so many questions about that, but I
don't think it'll help underdogswe can.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
We can connect on it later, but it is like, yeah,
just um yeah, I don't want themall out there playing video
games.
It's a good like side income.
That's another thing.
Like I, if I could just playvideo games and like street, you
could stream on your phone andlike, build an audience on your

(01:01:29):
phone and make money Like Icould have been doing that,
instead of donating plasma,people should always be throwing
their hat in the ring on thingsyou know it's like every time
you make a post on social media.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
It's throwing your hat in the ring.
You know it's like you get tofor free.
Throw a dart at the dartboardevery day.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, and people are so worried about like, oh, what
if the people from high schoolsee my posts and make fun of me?
I used to worry about that too,but like we all do.
Yeah, and now I never thinkabout it, but it used to be like
every time before I postsomething I'm like oh, this is
kind of cringy, you know, butlike those are usually the ones
that help people the most.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
you know, the one that you don't want to put out
in the world, like when I starttalking about welfare and my
childhood.
That's not easy for me.
These are things I used tonever talk about five years ago,
but they are the ones that getthe most, like people in my DM
saying, hey, thank you for this,or I came from this, or like,
thank you so much for, like, theimpact this had on me, you know
, and so it's the stuff that youdon't want to do that actually

(01:02:18):
has the most impact.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah, yeah and yes.
And you never know what kind ofopportunities that like
something, some silly idea youhave in your head and if you act
on it it's going to give you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
It's.
I mean like everything in life.
If you'll follow up, like likeI'm a really big fan of
documentaries, nine times out of10, I'm reaching out to the
person from the documentary andI've made the best connections
and pen pals that way.
You know it's like and peoplethat I admire as heroes are now
like people that check in on me.
You know it's like, causethey're just people you never

(01:02:51):
know.
You know it's like.
That's why you totally have todo it.
And like one of my favoritespeeches is Steve jobs speech
and I think he was to Yale orHarvard.
You can look it up.
But it's like connecting thedots and you know, and Steve
Jobs talks about all theserandom occurrences in your life
and that's what I'm puttingtogether with your story is like
all these random things andthen they eventually they don't
make any sense, right?
They're all jumbled.
You know it's likedocumentaries and you know game

(01:03:12):
shows and playing video gamesand customer service.
It's like hamburger making.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
It doesn't make sense , yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Doesn't make sense looking forward, but when you
get to the where you're going,you look backwards and it's all
perfect.
It's all it's a perfectalignment to it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Yeah, and yeah, even recently.
I know I keep like fastforwarding, going back whatever,
but like I just was at ae-commerce conference and I got
a DM and they were like I can'tbelieve I missed you.
This is um, uh, I shouldn't sayhis name, but he, it was
someone that was I would gamewith sometimes and he's like I

(01:03:48):
was at that conference too.
This is crazy that we're both inin commerce now and like like,
and then we connected and werealized we have like all of
these like, like we couldconnect the dots with each other
and like help each other andlike we're so passionate about
it because when you like, whenyou're in this like Twitch
community and that is somethingthat like, if someone's ever

(01:04:09):
feeling lonely, uh, go on Twitchand find just just like, put
Twitch on in the background andfind someone that you vibe with
and interact with them in thechat, like someone who's like
has less than a hundred viewersand they'll talk to you and you
can go and be their friend everysingle day.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
I hear the same thing about World of Warcraft.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yes, yeah, the gaming community is like I think the
gaming community saves lives,like it's a lot of people who
are introverts, who feel lonely,and like we're not really alone
.
We're not supposed to be aloneas humans, even if it's like
what you feel, like you want,it's a very like you don't have

(01:04:51):
to be alone, even if you want tostay inside, you know.
And so, like I made the bestlike friendships in the Twitch
community because I was likehanging out with these people,
either playing games with themor talking to them on my chat,
like the same people would comeand say hi and like I knew all
about them and like, yeah, you,just this beautiful community
and, um, yeah, it's crazy, causenow like, uh, connecting the
dots, like years later, of ofpeople I used to game with and

(01:05:13):
like.
I also used that knowledge ofknowing what it's like to be a
gamer to put it towards gaminginfluencing projects in chomps
multiple times and like alsoknowing how to like lean into
your gaming communities forinfluencing projects because
those communities are so loyal.
Like you can go to a gamer whohas, um, you know, less than a

(01:05:35):
thousand followers on Instagramand then they have like 70
people in their chat like allthe time it's only only 70
people.
Those 70 people are so loyal.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
I mean that's they're starting to look at more into
that Like in supposed to theperson that has 6 million.
You know it's like.
And the other thing is folks.
It's like if you do get to anysort of level, be nice.
You know it's like a story ofChris Chris rock that I read not
too long ago.
He was, you know, picked onmercilessly.
He was bullied really bad as akid.
They used to turn him upsidedown and steal his change and
stuff.

(01:06:05):
And randomly he's on the set oflike one of his major movies
and one of his bullies isworking on the set and he's like
talking about this later.
He's like dude, if you wouldhave just been decent to me, you
would have been in the trailerwith me watching the God
follower.
Instead you're sitting outsidemanning your post.
You know it's like and like.
I'm not saying it becausethere's a reward system to it,
but it's like treat people withkindness.

(01:06:25):
You know it's like and like andultimately in some position
like that, it's like look, hecould have been in the trailer.
You know it's like.
Or those communities, like, benice to those communities.
You know it's like they're theone going to be one to support
your business, your life whenyou're down, you know those
sorts of things.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Yeah, and so sometimes like so today, like I
have, um, I have my own podcasttoo and I have my own business
and I do these things and a lotof my like gaming community will
support me by just likewatching my stuff, even though
it has nothing to do with them,but they just are like
supporters of supporters of me,because I we just like hung out
every day.

(01:07:00):
Like it like it was it's such agood community.
Um, but then I ended up um,accepting the job at chomps,
getting back into e-commerce anduh randomly, uh, getting this
award for customer experience.
Operator of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Um.
What does that award look like?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
It's.
It's a little like can like itwas like a, like a subscription
company, that tech company thatgave it and, uh, the person I
didn't know that there was, likethese, the there's like the
course business influencers.
But then, there's also thebusiness influencers who are
like operators in business, whoare posting on LinkedIn and X

(01:07:43):
and posting like really tacticalthings, like if you work brand
side.
There's like those like realbusiness influencers out there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
I didn't know any of this at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
But those were the people who were presenting the
awards.
And so this like businessinfluencer Ron Shaw, he
presented me my award and Ididn't know who he was.
And, um, after that the award,he asked me if I would consult.
And I didn't even know whatthat meant.
I didn't know what the wordconsultant meant.
I was like I don't consult, butlike I'll get on a call with

(01:08:16):
you and like see how I can help.
And he's like, well, what areyour rates?
And I'm like I don't, like youdon't have to pay me.
Just don't like, let's just talkLike, so let's see how I can,
and that was one of the thingsthat helped me get rid of my
imposter syndrome.
I got on this call and he thislike business influencer was
asking me questions and I waslooking into his business and I
knew how to fix every singlething, every problem he had, and

(01:08:39):
I was like holy shit, I do knowwhat I'm talking about.
And then I sat with him for anhour.
I didn't charge him, cause I,honestly, if he, if, if he made
me like give him a rate, Iprobably would have told him
like $20.
Yeah, like, I like actuallythought that's like what I was
worth, like $20 an hour.
Crazy Isn't it, and so I justsat with him for free and we
went through all of this, andthen afterwards he tweeted just

(01:09:02):
sat with Zoe Khan for an hour,um, and I want to tear down my
business and redo it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
And that tweet got so much traction in my I didn't
have, I wasn't on Twitter, I myTwitter DMs got like flooded and
people like can you, can youmeet with me?
Can you meet with me?

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Yeah, and even thinking back to it, like if
that happened to me today, I'dbe like holy shit.
Yeah, all these leads and stuff.
I was like terrified.
I'm like, oh God, I don't knowif I can help all these people,
but I, um, I just helped as manypeople as I could that I had
time for for free, until peoplestarted sending me money.
Um, and people would send melike $200 for like a half an

(01:09:45):
hour and I'd be like you musthave put an extra zero, Like you
there's no way.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
There's no way, and um, but then so, like then I was
just getting so much, I wasstill working full time too.
So, um, and, and then I startedconsulting and were like
actually consulting, and youknow I would, I would charge
people if I like felt like Ididn't have time, you know.
And then so I just slowlystarted like charging people and
um, then people would say, okay, this is great, You're telling

(01:10:14):
me how to do it, but can you doit for me?
And I was like no, I'm sellingmeat sticks, I'm too busy Um and
playing video games.
Yeah and um.
So then I said no to like theimplementation part of like
actually doing for a while andthen it just kept like people
kept asking.
And then the other thing was Ididn't know anyone.

(01:10:36):
I was looking but like I didn'tknow anyone in the space that
like, did what I?
What would I do the way I do it?
Because, again, I taught myselfhow to do it and like.
I'm just like a psychopath and Ilike like things done the right
way, and so I didn't haveanyone to like send these people
to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
So then, um, it kind of made me sad that, like I was
just turning these people awayand being like sorry I can't
help you and I don't have anyoneto send you to.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
You and I are so similar.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
So then I decided that I would hire someone that.
I used to work with and that Itrusted and they did a good job
and I would teach them like anylike missing gaps from like when
I used to work with her tillnow and everything I learned.
And so I hired her and I gaveyou know she would work on like

(01:11:26):
the implementation while I wasworking at Chumps and then I
would still consult in themorning and at night and on
weekends and I would doimplementation on the weekends
and I just grinded and did thatfor like two years of working
full-time and doing this agencyLike and then that's when it
turned into an agency is when Ilike hired help.
Um, I did it part-time,literally, actually just till

(01:11:48):
January.
It was like technically lastyear, like my, my full-time job
was like a client of the agencyon paper, but I was like
full-time, just like one client,and then the agency was kind of
like operating on its own and Ijust decided to like really go
agency full time just in January.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
And that's inevitable .

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
That's inevitable.
So now I have an inevitableagency and, um, we have like
over a hundred employees nowfrom cause I've got overseas.
Um, I ended up opening up a BPOstaffing agency because that
was also a need that I didn'tsee anyone do really well and I
wanted like it done well.

(01:12:27):
And I was sick of like makingbad recommendations to people
that didn't work out, because Ithought they were good agencies
and then they didn't.
So I just like get fed up andI'm like you know what, I'm
going to figure out how to do itall myself, you know that's so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
It like I, I, folks I don't always know every piece
of everybody's story and likeit's so like similar, it's like
you know, like every part of it.
You know it's like I had thesame imposter syndrome.
And then the next thing, I knowI'm in a billion dollar company
fixing something that thebiggest CPA uh, and then
accounting is not even my totalthing and I'm fixing this stuff
and then it's like you start tobelieve a little bit more.

(01:13:06):
And then you like, look intolike a lot of business and
you're like nobody's got goodaccounting, nobody's got good
marketing, you know.
And like you're trying to findsomebody.
Hey, who can I connect you to?
I'm known as this rainmaker.
If I can find people that areactually decent, I will refer
you for free, but I will makepeople's full businesses that
way these days.
You know it's like, but thenwhen you can't find anybody, you
know it's like and that's whatyou did.
You couldn't find anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
So you became the solution.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Yeah, yeah and uh yeah and it just.
And the other thing is like itcomes from giving as much as you
can before you take to.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
I agree 1000% it really like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
I think that because I gave so much and I still give,
like I'll still give time when,when I have clients who are
struggling, like becausebusiness is hard, when I've got
clients who are struggling andthey can't like they they want
our help but they can't affordthe invoices Like I will trade
my time to help them as much asI can, as long as I know I'm not
being taken advantage ofbecause I want.

(01:14:03):
I just know that if they succeed, they'll.
We will succeed, you know.
We, it will all succeedtogether and no one has to
struggle.
And if, if someone's strugglingand you can help them, then
help them, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
I agree a hundred percent and then like to the
point of this kind of the soulof this show.
It's like the more we helppeople that are kindhearted and
good people and they can findtheir success, they help other
people.
Your story aligns so much withmine.
I knew, like certain components.
I knew we both gave plasma fora meal, you know, and like I
knew some of the other stuff Ididn't know how well, I didn't
know how similar a path, Ididn't know how similar

(01:14:35):
messaging.
Um, I wanted to get to where wewere going to talk about that
customer service journey forpeople and we'll just do another
episode.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
We'll have to do another episode.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Because I think, like I let the story unfold here on
Underdogs, you know, and it'slike it's anything that's good
for you folks.
And then today what I felt wasreally good is Zoe's story.
You know, it's like and we'llhave to come back because, as
you heard, her experience isreally this customer service
journey.
So I want you to get that assmall business people.

(01:15:07):
But her story today was like itwas worth the hour and thank uh
, thank you for sticking with usa little longer than usual.
Zoe.
Like I'm going to abruptly tocut this off, Cause I know you
have to do more, but like, thankyou so much for sharing the
story.
I want you to tell the peoplewhere you can be found before we
wrap up Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
I like it's an honor to tell my story.
So, um, and there's so much toit.
It's hard to like really get toget to the point, kind of thing
, but um, yeah, the journey'sworth it.
It is.
It is worth it.
Um, so you can find me onsocial media, basically
everywhere.
Um, zoe Khan Z O E K A H N-N.
And.
So if someone has made it tothe end of this video, so maybe

(01:15:43):
you put a little clip in thebeginning.
Stick to the end of the videofor a surprise.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
I'll give away a couple of free mentoring
sessions.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Oh, amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
To give to the underdogs, If anything, if
anything resonated with you guysand you feel like you want a
free 30 minutes hour.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
I'd like to give that back.
So she's amazing at what shedoes.
I think it starts from the baselevel.
You, you see the problem at thecustomer.
I'm big on experience inbusiness too, and that's what
you're kind of talking.
You're, you're online.
I've always been brick andmortar.
You know it's like, but it'sthe same piece, right, it's like
.
If it's not fixed here, itcan't be fixed.
They're Incredible story.
I can't believe how much likeit, just like.
It bolsters every singlemessage I have.
I don't know how many we hitacross If you watch the show

(01:16:24):
consistently.
You saw that today and we willhave to circle around again and
get to customer experience.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Yeah, we can.
Okay, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Folks, too many messages today.
Let me know in the commentswhat you picked up, what you'd
like to see from Zoe next time.
We'll beg her to come back.
Once again, thanks for tuningin to Underdogs.
See you next week.
Hello and welcome to Underdogs,bootstrappers and Game Changers
.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and

(01:16:54):
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our Content forGood initiative.

(01:17:16):
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.

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