The Grind, a Great Tool For Underdogs But at What Cost?

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Ever feel like the underdog in a world where the odds are stacked against you? That's the spirit Squalle and I embody as we reminisce about our journey from gritty training partners to trailblazers in the fitness industry. Our conversation isn't just about the hustle—it's a raw, unfiltered look at the sacrifices made and the personal toll it takes to defy industry norms and chase entrepreneurial dreams. Squalle’s passion for creating unconventional fitness equipment and our shared aversion to traditional labels set the stage for an episode filled with the truth about what it means to grind toward success.

Join us as we lay out the roadmap from hands-on work to strategic growth, navigating the choppy waters of leadership and the intricacies of small business operations. I'll bear it all, from the hard-learned lessons in financial management to the emotional struggle of leading a team while maintaining respect and authority. The episode is a playbook for those who are moonlighting to fund their startups, wrestling with the fear of starting a business, and everyone who's ever felt the burnout from relentless dedication. It's a story of transformation, balance, and the importance of nurturing a community of good-hearted people who empower each other to make a positive impact.

Our narrative is a rallying cry to the underdogs and a testament to the power of good mentorship, the importance of education, and the need to embrace the grind with an educated approach. If you've ever felt the pinch of competing against better-funded rivals or the weight of responsibility in leading a team, this episode will resonate with you. You'll walk away from this heart-to-heart with Squalle feeling inspired, equipped with insights on how to transition from working in your business to working on it, and ready to change the game.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Underdogs, bootstrapers and Game
Changers.
This is for those of you thatare starting with nothing and
using business to change theirstars, motivating people who
disrupted industry standards.
This is the real side ofbusiness.
This isn't Shark Tank.
My aim with this podcast is totake away some of the imaginary

(00:24):
roadblocks that are out there.
I want to help more underdogs,because underdogs are truly who
change the world.
This is part of our Content forGood initiative.
All the proceeds from themonetization of this podcast
will go to charitable causes.
It's for the person that wantsit.
Hello and welcome to episode 2,underdogs, bootstrapers and Game

(00:47):
Changers.
Really excited to talk to youtoday.
If this is the first timetuning into the podcast, I
really always want to hit homemessages that are good for
underdogs or if you're juststarting in business, or how to
think differently so you canchange the game.
And my good buddy here isSqually.
You know, pascuali, christopherD is Pascuali, as it were.

(01:09):
He's the full.
Yeah, I get so used to justcalling you Squally these days
and everybody else does.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Everybody knows me as Squally yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
And well, that's the one of the things too is I know
Squally for a long time now.
And just a little bit ofbackground on Squally we
actually met at kind of a fightclub of sorts, you know, every
Sunday we used to train together.
By the way, I had no idea atfirst that group of guys was all
prison training partners whenwe first joined Wasn't planned,

(01:37):
yeah so, but really goodtraining got to know Squally
really well.
One thing I absolutely loveabout Squally and we have so
many commonalities that you'regoing to find out about today is
he's never afraid to break themold and think of things and so,
like in the fitness world, yougot super into it, right, you
know, like going in and doingwhat everybody else does
traditional machines and stuffand then that wasn't enough for

(01:59):
Squally and so he startedbuilding his own equipment.
He's like why does somebody saythis is the way it has to be?
So you literally startedbuilding equipment in your own
shop and then that led.
So that was in EHP EHP,engineers of human performance.
Yeah, so different swing hateto be called a personal trainer.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, yeah, I even I even have a problem with that.
Yeah, even the status quo, theterms that have been coined, the
for lack of better terms haveall been brain screwed.
Sure, and it's that way in manyindustries.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, when we're trying to fit everything into
the same box, right?
It's like who's to say theequipment in the gym is the
perfect equipment, right?
And you said, no, it's not.
And so you started developingyour own Exactly.
If you'll let me, folks too,I'll actually put some of those
clips on there.
I don't know if he's going tolet me, because some of the
patents are pending.
But the other thing I want youto know about Squally is you
probably won't find him outthere anywhere, and it's only

(02:50):
because he hasn't put himselfout there at all.
He did what I did, you know,and that's we locked ourselves
behind our businesses.
We used training and fitness todeal with our stress Both of
you have, both of us haveextremely broken bodies these
days, and we can't give it upand and just kind of lived at
our business, which and that'swhy Squally and I got to get

(03:11):
along so well is like I don'tknow anybody else in the world
at this point.
I'm sure there's more thatstarted the way you and I did.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Never uncanny.
Yeah, never met somebody whotraveled at the same time down
the same path.
Yeah, same bumpy roads, sameturns.
So, yeah, a lot in common.
Yeah, both we both haveexperienced and felt a lot of
the same same things.
I think, yeah, we've bothparallel paths, really made some
of the same mistakes, and bothstill trying to figure out some

(03:42):
of the same things.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, oh, on a daily basis, you know.
And so the first thing I wantto really approach is you and I
have kind of embraced this grindmentality, and there's a lot of
things on the internet that saystay away from the grind
mentality.
You should only be working 40hours a week.
Work on your business, not inyour business, and I would say
so.
We decided we're going tosplurge a little bit on this

(04:03):
podcast.
I'm going to so Squally doesn'tfeel so bad.
I would say how the fuck do youwork on your business when
you're the only person?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's, it's, and we still talk about it.
Yeah, it's, it's a conundrum,but there's no doubt yeah,
there's no doubt that a lot ofthe advice that people give it's
over generalized.
It's too simplistic.
Totally Okay, we get into theseindustries, we get this grind,
unless you started with a fatass bank account.

(04:33):
Yeah, okay, funded to the teeth.
Yes, with all these peoplearound you, basically already
padded.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, telling you every single way, every single
piece of red tape to cut.
You're the one, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
You know, you're the one, you're the one with the
passion, you're the one with theideas.
Yeah, and a lot of times we dohave fears.
We don't just dive right intothis, this facet of business,
right away.
Yeah, we start out in thisdirection.
Yep, so a lot of us have tomoonlight.
You're already working a 30, 40hour work week.

(05:07):
Yes, and and I've had thatquestion presented to me so many
times yeah, these younger kids,hey, squally, how do you?
I want to start this, I want tostart this.
How do you do it?
Because I bartended all theseyears as well, yeah, and I
wouldn't take that away foranything.
Sure, because that helpedfortify.
Yeah, but I pulled legit 24 hourdays, oh, yeah, and you know

(05:30):
there is no other answer thanthe fucking G word Totally the
grind, absolutely.
Now balance, and you gotta findit.
Yeah, but what relationship isthe most important to you?
So I've had this discussionwith other colleagues that have
families, yeah, and I'm like man, look, you got, you got

(05:52):
relationships you need toconsider.
You want to be self employed,become an entrepreneur and do
these great things?
Yeah, that's your number onerelationship.
Yeah, that's a 24 sevenmarriage.
Totally.
You don't want to wake up oneday and end up losing both.
Yeah, so sometimes it's justnot the right timing.
Yeah, everybody could do it atsome point, but you need to be

(06:12):
100% dedicated to the grind.
Yes, and that grind very wellcould be 24 seven.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
And that's the so.
One thing to add here like mostof the stuff online is about a
very small percentage of thebusiness.
That's why people are sayingyou know, screw this grind
mentality.
That's wrong.
You know, have life balance,have, you know, like, have your
employees take care of yourbusiness, that sort of stuff
that happens later, right, thatdoesn't happen at first, and so

(06:41):
at first, the only thing youhave as an underdog, if you're
not heavily funded, if youdidn't just raise $5 million in
capital because those are thepeople online talking about this
stuff, the grinders, they'retoo busy, right, Right, you know
they're too busy to talk aboutthis stuff online, so you won't
get stuff, right.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Then, when you have a really extraordinary product
yeah right, yeah, entity ideahow long does it take to find
those individuals that you canhand that, that baby, over to?
Totally it take a long time andmaybe sometimes, as both of us

(07:15):
can agree, we've experiencedyeah, maybe not possible.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yep, some products you're not like.
We talk about scaling, customwork all the time.
It's like everybody wants to docustom work because it's cool.
Right, you do a ton of customwork, all that's.
That's how, like the equipmentwent into now doing all kinds of
crazy stuff.
He's done a lot of stuff aroundtown in a full metal fab shop.
Yeah, so, one thing led to theother.
But we know custom work isn'tscalable, right Right, it's only

(07:41):
scalable to a certain extentbecause you can only find so
much good labor for it, right,right.
So, but I like you, we neverlooked into the business like
maybe wanted to have a hugebusiness, but we started
actually the wrong dreams tohave a huge business.
Actually, with your workoutequipment stuff could be a huge
business, could be.
Yeah, but when?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
you when you want to continually buck the norm, yeah.
When you really really want tobe that extraordinary, yeah Well
, what is extraordinary?
Extraordinary?
Yeah, right.
Well, no offense to 90% ofwhat's out there.
Yeah, there's a lot of ordinaryTotally hey, successful

(08:19):
individuals, no doubt Verysuccessful, probably more
successful than myself, butthere's a lot of following, yeah
, and especially in the humanperformance industry and the
equipment and the training,somebody sees something and boom
, you see it six times afterthat, Totally 10 times.
Next thing, you knoweverybody's just copying, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Sheet.
And there's a point I reallywant to get to too.
It's like this is for the otherside of business, right?
This is for the 90% of us thatdon't start with the heavy
funding, with a dad that canteach you about business or
anything else.
So the only thing we have incommon with the people that do
go those things is time how youuse your time, right.
It's that's the only thing wehave in common.

(09:00):
So you and I know firsthandexperience.
You have to sacrifice to get towhat you want, right?
It's like both of us are in ourbusinesses 120 hour weeks.
The only thing I made time forwas workouts.
That's it.
Other than that, it was.
It was lock yourself behindyour gates.
You and I are so identical thatway, you know had to start from
nothing.
So I lived in a trailer on theback lot with no hot water or no

(09:21):
water whatsoever Sorry, noelectricity, you know.
You know what it was liketaking a nap at four o'clock in
the afternoon before going totrain with you the animals.
You know when it's 120 degreesoutside the trailer ready to go
to bed.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Getting ready to go to bed, where most people are
just the most comfortable.
They could be sitting on theedge of your bed with sweat
dripping down on the floor andyou know not saying.
That's the way it's got to be.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
No, and we don't want it to be that way for everybody
.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
But it's a little window, a little glimpse into
what we were willing to do.
And it's not to say that wedon't care about others, our
family and friends.
We don't want to haverelationships, but sometimes it
just it's not the right time.
No, it can.
You know, you can eithersacrifice this dream of this

(10:10):
extraordinary ideal that youwant, yeah, or there's going to
be some sacrifice on this otherside, with some personal
relationships, and I think youknow I'm not going to speak for
you.
Yeah, but we were both soinundated, yeah, I plowed
everything aside, yeah, and Ithink everybody knew that I

(10:31):
still gave a shit about them.
Friends, family, oh, yeah, Iliterally, yeah, everything.
And I think both of us canagree.
There's a well, obviously youwant to learn how to moderate
literacy, but it can go too far,absolutely you can, and then it
can become counterproductive.
Next thing, you know you wakeup and you're like, oh shit, I'm

(10:55):
burnt.
Do I even want to do thisanymore?
And where is, where's my circle?
Where are all my family andfriends?
Yeah, and not only pushed themall aside.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
When you do something a long enough time, your mind
breaks in a different direction.
Right, and so, if you're usedto 120 hour a week, if you were
used to 26 training sessions aweek, you know.
If you're used to dealing withbrokenness and still pushing
through that mental toughness,right, it was one of the best
and worst things I ever learned,you know, because it's
destroyed my body, you know, butthis was what worked, right,
and so it's hard to change thatformula.

(11:25):
So then, when you don't have todo it anymore and you move to
the on-your-business phase,right, you know where your
employees are supposed to bepicking up the slack.
You're working on your business, you're not in the business.
This, folks, is what I reallywanted to talk with squally
about, because actually we talkabout this all the time.
He'll call me and you say,tyler, I just took a little bit
of time to go, like what do?
A yoga class or somethingWhatever?

(11:46):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
I'm trying to restore a little bit now.
Sure, I woke up all of a suddenand I realized, you know,
always, always able to recover.
Yeah, one week you feel alittle burnt out, you feel a
little tired, a little beat up.
Next week you're back in it.
Yeah, look, I don't care whoyou are.
Yeah, after two, three decades,I'm not just talking about

(12:12):
working hard.
Yeah, I'm talking about 24-7.
Yes, we're human.
Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, and Ialways knew this.
I didn't mean to like shoveeverybody's side.
Balance, balance, balance.
We got to be careful.
Sure, we need to surroundourselves with you, have the
loved ones, you have the and notsaying that our loved ones, our

(12:34):
friends, can't be driven aswell, but more often than not,
they're trying to bring you backdown to normal.
Yeah, they're trying to talk toyou about balance and staying
healthy and why you're workingso hard and be careful.
Yep, got to take a break.
Yeah.
It's good to have that.
But in this type of grind, thiskind of road, we got to make
sure we surround ourselves withthose mentors that have done

(12:54):
that and get it yeah To keep usfueled.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
That's the biggest switch to try to pull it's like.
So you'll take a little bit oftime these days and you'll call
me like Tyler.
I feel so guilty about takingthis time off work, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
We are yeah, produce, yeah, yeah, find that long goal
, get there, yeah, no matterwhat.
Yeah, no matter what.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
I mean, that's the thing you think of the tortoise
and the hare, right, the hare isalways running, stops, runs,
right, yeah, you and I are likefast tortoises.
Oh, never stop, never stop,never stop.
If you stop, the hare is goingto get ahead, right, and usually
your competitor, you know, Iknow you've dealt with this too
your competitors arebillionaires, right, yeah, how
do you make up the distance on abillionaire?
You know, like Mark Cubanactually said work every day

(13:41):
like somebody's trying to makeit away or take it away.
Yeah, it's like well, mark, yougot a family.
Now you know, it's like you'redoing some balance.
This is one edge I can have.
You know, we're actuallystarting a business.
I don't even know why I mighthave to cut this that competes
with one of Mark Cuban'sbusinesses, and my thought is
it's like Mark, I don't have afamily, I'm still willing to do
the 120 hours a week.

(14:01):
I will work like somebody'sgoing to take it away from me.
That's my edge, right?
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
But it's just it's.
You know, I like that tortoiseand the hare, because I think
what I'm trying to do is try topush that, that guilt, all that
guilt of being a little more ofa fucking turtle.
Yeah, right, it's okay.
Yeah, as long as you're stillfocused, yeah, little, refocus,

(14:30):
right, yeah, and and.
And.
One of my biggest problems islofty goals.
Yeah, lofty, you have them,nothing wrong with it.
Yeah, that turtle man, I wantto find that.
I want to start focusing onthose shorter ones, because
everybody out there that reallywants to recreate the wheel on

(14:51):
their own, starting with nothing, yeah, don't expect it to
happen the way you want.
No, in the realm that you want,I mean the patience man.
I never had patience, yeah, youknow no, me too.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
And it's always got to be bigger.
It's always got to be better,including myself.
You know it's like I'll alloweverybody else in the world to
be normal.
You know it's like, but no, notme.
You know no, you better getyour 26 workouts a weekend.
You better work your 120 hourweeks.
You know you better be outthere sweating in the sun.
You know you better be doingthese things.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah Right, it's, it's you do grab a hold of that,
that threshold mentality?
Yeah, and do you have to becareful I'm not trying to, no,
that's worse and back down fromit too much?
Yeah, because I do believe incontinuing to find new
thresholds to break through.
That's life, it's the edge andthe edge keep you know.

(15:39):
But it's if you do not continueto have that kind of mindset,
yeah, you'd be broken.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
But here's the thing that I think, when I mentioned
having this podcast today aboutlike the grind, you know,
especially because this is theother side of the grind, this is
the way, underdogs, you canmake up the distance.
I'm sorry and I hate this pathfor you.
I hate to think about somebodyliving the way I did in a rat,
infested, you know area and likeliving off $50 a week in this
sort of.
I don't want that for otherpeople, but if you don't have

(16:07):
anything else, you still can doit.
Right.
We exqually in our like livingexamples that if you suffer, you
can gain through that suffrage.
Right, If you do what otherpeople won't do when they're out
Friday night, I used to tellmyself what do I have that I can
edge the gap on people with?
You know it's like well, notmuch, except when they're out on
a Friday night partying I'll beunder a car.
You know, like if you're better, lose that FOMO fast, yes, Uh

(16:30):
huh, Cause it'll kill you.
Oh, totally, I didn't mean.
I mean, how is dating like whenyou're in this grind mentality?
No women wants to deal with you.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
No, I mean luckily, early on I was bartending, so I
had that little bit of socialexposure, you know, and still
making money, so you're notoutspending it, yep.
But came a point where it'slike I can't, you know doing
three different things running afull business, 10, 12 hours a
day, training center, thenfilming and designing these

(17:00):
training mechs, and thenbartending.
At some point had to cut someof it, sure, and you know that's
when the work becomes yourmarriage, you know 100%.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Well, and that's where I would say anybody with.
So I had it easy.
Really, nobody really countedon me, right?
Because and it's an easy thingto find some success when it's
like and I talk about the goldencouch all the time I don't know
if you've ever heard me talkabout this, but the golden couch
is somebody like MarkZuckerberg, whose family was
really wealthy.
They can take a shot at a loftybusiness and then, if they fail
, they land on the golden couch.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, that's just it.
Like if you're set up to take ashot with double up buck
shotgun right 10 times, yeah,it's a little different than
those of us that have to put alittle pebble in a slingshot and
keep trying and hit it once youknow a little different.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Totally Well and it's like, if your business means so
, my choice was I make it or I'mhomeless.
There was no center ground tothat, you know like, and so you
do make it right, but it is.
You can take bigger risks.
You know, and I know we haven'ttaken like we've taken risks,
we're still risk takers, but atthe same time I don't shoot for
the loftiest risks all the timebecause I don't have a landing

(18:13):
post.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Nobody's going to save me, there's no net, it's
it's, I'm one of the biggestculprits, yeah, and Fear.
Yeah, I mean fuck man.
Yeah, it's the biggest dirtiestfour letter word.
We all know that, and underdogsespecially have the fear.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, how can you know?
Because there's no net, there'sno golden couch.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
So you know that fear , and then the, the
perfectionism.
Yeah, that is either there orcomes from.
You know, I can't put this outuntil this is perfect.
Yeah, do this kid.
Yeah, motherfucker, one foot infront of the other and go.
Yeah, like that's, that's,that's me talking to me.
Yeah, continuing to tell myselfto do it.

(18:57):
Yeah, you know, because it'stough.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
So one thing that's interesting is when you join
this podcast, you have to sign awaiver.
You know much like.
You walk into Arizona combatsports and we sign a waiver so
we can beat each other up andnot be liable legally liable.
So squally signed my waiver soI'm allowed to do what I want to
him in this room today.
And like squally, that would beone thing.
That like took me a long timebecause you and I weren't social
media people.

(19:21):
You know you're still not and Iwouldn't like the thought of
being on a podcast.
You know we were offered fourreality shows in my first
business.
I turned them all down.
You know this.
Like very few people knew thecharities I was involved with.
Nobody actually knew thecharities I was involved with.
Nobody knew the that I evenowned a business most of the
time.
They thought my employees did.
You know it's like.

(19:41):
But here's the thing.
It's like we're sitting behindthe scenes and we actually have
stuff up here that can behelpful.
Right, yeah, there's a lot ofyeah and here's the.
The main thing and I talked toa lot of people about this these
days is like is evil everhumble?
Is evil ever.
If you get online right now arewe going to see somebody with
their Ferrari saying join myprogram for $50,000 a month, you

(20:04):
know like, because then you canbe like me in the Ferrari.
Is that guy humble?

Speaker 2 (20:09):
You know you want to, you want to believe In the best
.
Yeah, Right.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Okay, maybe this person started here.
They deserve this, this thing,but there's no doubt that the
masses of the Tylers and theSqualys yeah, there's too many
out there that have somethingvery extraordinary to offer,
thank you have worked theirballs off, and it's not anybody

(20:40):
else's you know fault, but ours.
Sure, we need to use thoseextraordinary tools that are
available to us.
Yeah, you know you got to grow.
Yeah, and you have to, you gotto jump in.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
So how often am I telling you this stuff these
days?
Because this took me a lot offear, I'm afraid.
Every time I make a post, everytime I make a podcast, you know
, I think about it and you and Iare perfectionists.
So I've thought of this inevery single horrible way that
it can happen.
But then, like I'm mostlytrying to focus on every single
good way it can happen, like thekid out there right now that
doesn't think he can open abusiness or she, and we've just

(21:15):
told them, like you can do itright, yeah, you can do it,
absolutely can do it.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
When you're, when you're in it yeah, at first, and
that second, the step youdidn't want to take.
Yep, it sucks.
Yeah, like this sucks.
This could be better, thiscould be better.
What I'm trying to do, yeah, isfocus on the hundredth and the
200th.
You'll look back and you'll belike, oh, that was funny.
Yeah, that was archaic incomparison to where we're at now

(21:40):
.
Yeah, but you won't even give ashit by that point.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Well and you and I know this path all too well Like
I don't know what size you werein high school or whatever, but
I wasn't a big guy in highschool.
No, I was, that's skinny.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
That's where the you know.
See my bio.
I was an artist.
Yeah, if I could createsomething, that's it.
I thought I was destined forart school.
Yeah, that chip on my shoulderto see what I could do with my
body and and and the human body,and the thresholds took over.
Yeah, and all that creativityfor the next four, four, three,

(22:13):
four, three decades Justliterally took over and ever,
and since then, I literallycould create, you know, a, a
threshold out of anything to seewhat the, the body and the mind
can produce.
Sure, and that's how I startedbeing able to develop these

(22:36):
extraordinary training platformsand the equipment and
everything else.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
And that's my chip.
It started as a little bit of avendetta, sure you know I mean,
and that's my point to it islike you, you, you can see
progress in our fitness journeys, right, or training journeys,
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's like you can see he's correct, he's correcting
himself because I don't evenlike the word fitness.
Yeah, human performance.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
And so, and so we've seen that progress, right, and
then we've seen the businessprogress, and so if you don't
start somewhere and even withcontent creation, if you don't
start somewhere, you never havethe chance to grow into it,
right?

Speaker 2 (23:07):
So I'm, I'm feeling a little bit of in the tone of of
lecture right now, because thishas been the tone of our
conversations lately.
You sign the waiver, dude, he's, he's my guy, these are my guys
right here.
They're gonna, they're gonnastart to blow this shit up.
Yeah, I'm telling you squally,I'm the biggest culprit I have.
I have over probably 50 gigsworth of film footage, yeah, and

(23:31):
for almost four to five yearswas filming daily, yeah, and
nightly, yeah, with the trainingand the and the equipment
Somewhere along the way.
Yeah, it got daunting, yeah, orI got the perfectionism took
hold, yeah, like you know wellyou and I are.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
it's never good enough people, yeah, right.
And so and that's what I love,you know, like, like some of my
close friends, like you is likeI truly believe, and if you're
out there right now, and likeyou grew up with a good heart, I
truly believe this.
You know, like, if you're agood heart of people, person,
get out there, train, getinvolved with MMA.
The world needs more, andthat's what I love about you,
squaly You're a good heartedbadass and the world needs more

(24:14):
good hearted badasses.
Right, you know those are thepeople that change the world.
Those are people that will stopon the side of the road and
help somebody.
Right, you know those are thepeople that will stick up for
things that aren't right whenthey see them.
You know it's like, and wedidn't start that way.
You know I speak for me, but Iknow a little bit about your
history too.
This woman on our bully, thispodcast.
She said you become the herothat you needed when you were
younger.

(24:35):
You know, I wasn't thisconfident when I was younger.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I wasn't this, and that's a good If you're not
there yet.
Yeah, that's something goodlike a visual for people.
Sure, that's what you want tobe.
Yeah, like, take that littlekid by the hand and picture
yourself walking around with himor him or her, and it's a, yeah
, it's, it's.

(24:58):
It's a really good visual forpeople because it's what you
know with the you have today.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Let's say, the you have today runs into your you
know 16 year old self.
Like, would he even recognizeit?
Would you even believe that theyou have today is you know?
Would he even listen to you?
Like?
No way, dude, that's.
There's no way.
I grew up to be that, no no, Imean prior to that, 161718.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's when I really started, yeah, like obsessing
about any kind of training, anykind of physical, mental,
anything that I couldpotentially get into Prior to
that.
No way.
Yeah, no way, yeah Same withothers that knew me back then
family friends it's like Holyshit, yeah, no way, that's the

(25:41):
same person.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
And that's you know.
And here's the thing, and Ithink you feel the same.
It's like these struggles thatyou go through, like learning to
train, doing the things wrong,getting it right, you know, like
now getting some confidence,learning, learning to get
punched in the face, learning toget back in there after getting
punched in the face, learningto get hit in the face in
business, progressing throughthat.
These are all challenges thatare hard, right, and I think,

(26:04):
since you and I and this isanother message I want for
people out there starting withnothing, these challenges
actually build you to otherdestinies.
Right, like for me, it wouldn'tbe worth enough just for money
alone to continue my success,right, no, no but it's almost

(26:25):
correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
But you almost feel like if you finish out the rest
of the years of your life, yeah,and you don't fulfill all of
this, that you have to give,yeah, it would be a, it would be
a sin, absolutely, it wouldliterally be a crime, and you
know people talk about at theend you have regrets, of course

(26:49):
you have them, but when you feelthat passionate, that you have
something that that strong, thatbig to give, yeah, just saying
just working your ass off orsomething, or yeah but when you,
when you know you know, we'vegotten our ass kicked in
business Especially, and itwouldn't be worth it if we
didn't come out with the storiesand share them.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
And I'm back to content again.
Right, yeah, for the moneyalone it's not worth it.
For the story and helpingsomebody, hell yeah, it's worth
it.
You know, like the fires, therobberies, the unfair employees,
the competitors turning me in,you know those are now stories
that are used to help peoplewith.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
I have.
I have obviously both.
Do you have this dichotomy?
Social media yeah, it's beingexploited, being used for, for
mindless bullshit yeah, a lot ofit.
Right, and can literallyentranced so many people and get
addictive.
But you can, you it's.

(27:47):
It's also this amazing learning, self development tool.
When you search for it, yeah,when that's what you're looking
for, if you don't get caught upin the BS.
It's such an amazing tool.
Yeah, I mean those that youknow might need to go see a
therapist or or get, you know,just resonating with there.

(28:07):
There's so much good shit outthere.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
If we didn't read stories about people that had
come from nothing and donesomething, how would we ever
know that was possible for useither?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
You know, because we don't ever believe it.
Yeah Right, no, you had thismuch money, you had this bit of
luck, you had blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, and what sucks squall is is most of the people
that are boasting these thingsthese days.
You know it's like they didhave that and then automatically
, like some of us in the world,go and well, they had that, you
know.
So that's not me.
You know it's like like MarkZuckerberg.
He had, you know, a extremelyrich upbringing, went to Harvard
right, got like funded for abusiness that he stole.

(28:46):
That's not my.
What am I going to learn fromMark Zuckerberg?
You know like, that's not not.
This is not my life at all.
It doesn't seem anything like apath that I can walk on.
Right.
I'm going to end up in Harvardtomorrow and then I'm all of a
sudden going to get handedmillions of dollars to start a
company that I stole.
Yeah, sorry, I'm beating up onMark Zuckerberg a little bit,
pick it.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
I mean, it's those, it's, it's.
It reminds me of the way myselfand one of my guys first
started actually diving andbuilding the training max.
Yeah, we didn't have all thisequipment.
Sure, you could see if peoplecould see what we created.

(29:29):
Like, you design that, youbuilt that.
Yeah, with a grinder, a handgrinder, a welder and a chop saw
on the floor and great point.
I mean no joke.
Yeah, brick by brick by withour hands.
Yeah, not a bunch, not aninfusion of money taking it to

(29:51):
some big engineering firm.
And you know, for fuck's sake,I tried to work with a few
engineers no offense to greatengineers, but because I grinded
24, seven, yeah, and didn'taccept roadblocks and kept, I
had already figured everythingout by the time they would try

(30:11):
to solve questions.
I would ask there are.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
There are so many good points there and I just
want to make sure everybody getsit.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, but that's one of the others.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right.
I mean, get the fuck out there.
Do your shit, make yourmistakes yeah.
In business, do your craft, becareful.
Yeah.
Relying on some institution forfour or five years to teach you
all these things?
Get out, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
And do it?
Yeah, no, you have to.
I mean and I'm, you know, I'm ahuge educational promoted, a
proponent, as having gone to alot of education, but I mean,
the same is true in one of mybusinesses.
We had a Roger, a manufacturingcompany that did brand new
vehicles approach us and so weused to build, as you know, we
used to build custom stuff intheir vehicle, small run

(30:59):
manufacturing stuff, and ninetimes out of 10, I was
correcting their engineers or Iwould go over there and I'd have
to change something because itdidn't work in real life.
But starting like the hammer,like you're talking about, and
too many people like I can'tstart because I don't have this
tool, right, and have you heardthe story?
Like, I got to look it up.
But there's a guy that wantedto get into the belt business,
like this belt, right, and themachine cost $100,000.

(31:20):
Right.
And he's like, well, I don'thave $100,000.
I want to be in the belt andbusiness.
So he went out to Home Depotand he grabbed a bunch of parts.
He threw them all together.
It was like six grand.
He was in the belt business andguess what?
That machine now is the onethey use in the industry.
Yeah, like that's exactly whatyou're talking about.
It's like you started with ahammer and you've developed this
thing that you're afraid to putout in the world, which you
need to start doing.
People always ask yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
And well, as Tyler just says, I shouldn't be afraid
to do something.
Yeah, and I'm getting ready tosay don't be fearful of trying
new things.
But you know, people always askhow'd you learn how to do this,
how'd you learn how to do that?
How'd you learn it?
Doing it, just trying it?
Yeah, I didn't go to someschool or go to, you know, to go
learn.

(32:04):
Sure, you dive in and you getyour hands dirty, right and you
go in and you fail.
Yeah, you know, but then youlearn?

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I mean, how many?
So we had the second largestpowder coating setup in the city
third largest, something likethat and it's like I didn't know
anything about part of coding.
When I first started, I satthere with a textbook and I was
used to this because, speakingof school that you're bashing on
, I was finishing my biochemdegree.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Hey look we both have college degrees.
Yeah, I wouldn't take that awayfor anything.
Yeah, but luckily I developed apassion for what I was studying
.
That's where I agree with you.
Yeah, I never intended toactually take the degree to go
get a conventional job with it.
Yeah, I took that knowledgealong.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
I'm not a biochemist, right.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
And then went and and was able to do the things that
and see things in a differentway, yeah, than others, because
of that education.
So I'm not sitting here saying,oh, I don't have an education
or people shouldn't do it.
Yeah, be careful what you'reexpecting out of it.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
You need both, right.
And I want to get back to thispowder coating machine because,
like the, you need both in life.
You need the education.
And then also, it's like youdon't go into our MMA gym, you
know, and say I'm here, I showedup, make me awesome, right, you
can't do that at school either.
You have to show up to, youhave to like learn something.
You're like whoa, that's prettycool.
Now I'm going to go out andstudy this on my own Right.

(33:34):
But with the powder coatingstuff, I was so used to like
turning over my books when Ifirst started my first business
from I, you know, I was stillfinishing my biochem degree,
right, I started my firstbusiness.
So every night, eight o'clock,pull out the books, right, and
study until I went to bed.
Well, I was used to doing thatand so, like, I picked up after
I graduated powder coating booktextbook and I read it for a
year and then then I originallygot a little oven like you would

(33:58):
use at home to bake cookies,you know, and I got this tiny
little setup and I startedplaying with powder coating and
then, when I got the hang of it,then eventually I looked and I
found this beautiful set ofpowder coating equipment huge
oven that you could drive a carinto in a couple more, and and
that's what got us into thepowder coating business and, by
the way, this also set up abarrier to entry for my
competitors, because nobody elsewas doing their own powder

(34:19):
coating Right.
So we had faster turnaroundtimes, we had better costs, all
these things, and so that wasliterally from picking up a
textbook, like you're saying.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
And and a point there that that's stupid important
for the long road, as far asneeding to have a passion, a
real, legit foundation ofpassion for this road, this
grind Cause you're not, you'renot coming out the other end

(34:48):
still wanting to do it, notbeing broken.
You know, hey, some get lucky,but this long road it has to
start with a passion forsomething.
In case in point, the studying.
I got years of college and adegree.
I can't read, I can read, I canread.
I can't sit down and read abook that I don't give a shit

(35:13):
about, but I can study and learnanything if I'm passionate
about it.
That's my ADHD right, and sothat's super important point,
because if it doesn't start withthat passion like I couldn't
even focus on it for a second.
I can't even take a piece offurniture.

(35:33):
I gotta build it my way, Like Idon't even wanna look at the.
That's how bad I am.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
So here's my biggest point to college too and I
didn't mean to dwell on this somuch.
It's like if you start it, youneed to finish it.
I don't care, right, I mean toomany people out there.
The message is I dropped out ofcollege.
Should we pick on Zuckerbergagain?
I dropped out of college and Ibecame a billionaire.
Right?
That's not true for most of us.
That started from nothing.
You know, it's like I'm notsaying everybody needs college

(36:00):
degree.
I'm a huge proponent.
I owned custom auto shops atone point.
Those guys make well over sixfigures a year.
You don't have to do it.
But my point is if you decideto do it, finish it right, and
you will finish it.
If it's your own resources,it's like Mark Zuckerberg didn't
pay for his own schooling If Iwould have dropped out.
I'm a fool and you never knowhow you're gonna use something
either.
Right, my biochemistry stuff.

(36:21):
It made me really good atdumbing things down to myself so
I could understand it, and nowI help people win business with
it because I can break downcomplex subjects.
I can make them reallyinteresting and easy, and that's
what I really gained from thatright that obviously I get to
build my own supplements andunderstand my body more.
You know so.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
But that's another.
I don't wanna now createanother tangent, but that was
something else that I thinkabout.
Another thing that I'm gettingbetter about okay, those of us
that are this driven and thispassionate and willing to go and
start these entities and thesegoing down these roads that most

(37:00):
people are like, nah, I'm gonnasit in a parking lot, you have
to.
And some people are good earlyon in knowing here's where my
skill lies, or my skills lie,here's my lane.
Yeah, I'm not good at this,this and this, and you need to
surround yourself with thosepeople.

(37:21):
I'm very stubborn, I can'tfollow.
It's taken me this long torealize and that's why it's so
good networking with you andrealize I'm the most creative
motherfucker on the face of theearth.
There's nothing I can't createright and now build, but the

(37:42):
structure, the organization ofthe business side, especially
being a small business, it canbe something that can take all
that away from you.
You have to know, or know thatyou have the ability to grasp
and take the time to learn it,which here's an individual that
everybody's gonna wanna beturning to for that plug

(38:03):
intended.
But you have to know.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
You do, and that's actually one of the major parts
with small business.
Somebody's amazing plumber,they're amazing electrician.
They can't just figure out thebusiness ops right.
So, and so that's something I'mpassionate about too is making
all that stuff easier for people, because it can be, and the
reason I learned is because Ifigured it all the hard way.
I got my ass kicked on it.
As we know, this is the bestway to learn.

(38:30):
You get punched in the face acouple times.
You keep your hands up better,right.
Business is no different.
You get hit with a couplethings.
You keep your hands up better,yeah yeah, so it's.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
hey, some people are blessed they can be good at all
of it or they can lie and figureout how to fake it.
It's taken me long enough, butthere's a point that hopefully
those out there that are takingheat to some of this they

(39:04):
realize it sooner than later.
Drop your fucking ego andrealize what you're really good
at.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, know what you know and know what you don't
know.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
And surround yourself with good people.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, I mean, we don't think about this either
enough.
But big business, right, ceo,he has a master of everything
beneath him right, he's incharge of strategy and that's it
.
You don't get that choice whenyou start independently.
Right, you have to learn how todo a little bit of all of it,
but then C-E-F-N-O-O yeah,absolutely.
The good thing, though, is youcan gather like I didn't know I

(39:36):
was gonna be good at accountingsqually.
I had no idea and I didn't knowI was gonna become a nerd
passion for it, like-.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I always thought, maybe you were kinda-.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, a numbers guy, not I don't know, but yes, I
guess I never knew it.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
But yeah, but once again, you didn't.
But you had a passion thatdrove you to need to investigate
that right.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Well, I love data is what it came down to.
You know and I like I'm big onhow do you make decisions and
gathering information to makedecisions.
And when I realized that havinga good P&L that was properly
put up was now a crystal ballfor my business it allows you to
make better decisions right andso when I embraced that, I was
like man, you better notmiscategorize that.

(40:20):
You know that expense therethat better be in the right
bucket.
You know, because, like I wantcomplete clarity in my books so
I can make good decisions.
So you have to realize thatit's not a pain in the ass to
sit down and do your books whenyou realize what the outcome
could be.
But accounting's for adifferent day.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Nope, but once again, that's.
Some might not think of it as ashort-term goal, that's a baby
step goal that needs to beachieved.
And that's where I've veryoften fallen short is I'm
reaching for this constantly andI'm like, oh, that little bit

(41:00):
of time on those P&Ls.
I'll know, because I'm, youknow, mindset was always, you
know, headhunting like a freighttrain to the big goals and I
kind of overlooked a lot of thesmaller goals.
That I guarantee would make mylife much easier, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Well and everybody's like, oh, I'm just gonna get an
accountant for that part.
Here's the issue is.
It's like I tell people all thetime until you can afford an
in-house accounting person, I'msorry, be in your books a little
bit, at least you need to knowwhat's going on.
It's this is a silly analogy,but the other day they upcharged
my dumpster fee on me, right, Inoticed it right away because
I'm in my books a little bit.

(41:43):
You know so sure I have CPA.
You know generally handles alot of that stuff.
But I like to classify thingstoo, and that's what this
frustrates the heck out of me.
That's what people do to smallbusinesses too.
The dumpster company knows thatyou probably have a bookkeeper
that just chalks that up to anexpense and you'll never know
right.
Nobody's gonna get on the phoneand ask why the phone bill's

(42:03):
increasing.
You know Like nobody's gonna.
No bookkeeper off site is gonnabe able to catalog your
transactions perfectly for yourbusiness.
They're gonna guess at it.
And now you're in the wrongbuckets and you don't have that
crystal ball.
Anyway, I wanna get toaccounting on a different
episode, but it's important totouch on that sort of stuff.
You and I are talking about thegrind, you know, and so, like
we initially, like I wanna talkabout the benefits of the grind,

(42:25):
which we did, you know, but youand I now suffer this right.
It's like I started to say,like you'll call me and say,
tyler, I feel so guilty forgoing out and doing this today.
Or you know, I was in Europeand I'm like feeling guilty
every single day, that I'm justkind of enjoying myself or
whatever, Because I'm so used tothat mentality of getting
things done every day.
I mean now, like, wouldn't yousay this is like when you take

(42:46):
some time for yourself, it'shard to enjoy it, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
It's just believe it's like any other addiction.
I mean you just it does.
It gets really tough.
And look, we're not talkingabout 10 years of hard work, or
we're talking about two to threedecades.
We're talking about 363 plusdays a year, 18 hours a day,

(43:13):
literally hibernating in thistask or this business.
And think about that.
Think about then coming out andtrying to normalize that a
little bit after all those years, especially when it's worked
and when you're not quite toyour quote unquote envisioned

(43:37):
pinnacle right.
I can't say what it would belike if I felt like I was there
quote unquote, right, but you'renever gonna feel there.
No, true, because right,exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
But if I would we find a new challenge.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
The second that Closer felt like but that makes
it even that much more difficultwhen you're like I got a ways
to go and you have been in thatmentality for so many years of
where you know the little bit ofsleep you try to get.
You wake up an hour later andyou're going and you're creating

(44:16):
.
I'm getting up, I'm getting upand I'm gonna finish my thoughts
when I'm driving, when I'mdoing anything.
So to try to scale that backand turn it down, that's the
danger.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
You and I don't have the answer to it either, and so
I think it's important to knowthat this is a piece of
something you can do to besuccessful.
But I don't know, maybe theanswer is you pull off the gas a
little bit when you, but theproblem is you never.
Once you have one thing, you'relike I've gotta get the next
thing, I gotta grow, I gotta getbigger, I gotta get another
location, I gotta open thisother business.

(44:50):
Once you have that, andespecially after the fear is
driven away, I don't know if itwas like this for you, but I was
afraid to death to open myfirst business, so scared and
pushed into it, and I didn'tthink that was for me.
I thought that was for the guywith the rich dad that would
show him how to do it.
And then I did it, and now theworld's my oyster.
I see business everywhere.
My problem is holding myselfback at times.

(45:11):
Well right.
Which is why I like workingwith business people Exactly Is
because I get to jump into theirbusiness and help them Back to
surrounding ourselves withlike-minded and don't know what
defines competent but,individuals that can help you
right Like blinders.

(45:33):
Yeah, and where to look for helpwhen you need it.
It's like and actually I wantto say this on my own defense
because I know a lot of podcastsout there are like people
trying to be business coachesand not stuff.
I'm not a business coach.
I don't even like to be calleda business coach.
I do it for free.
You know I've traveled aroundfor the last two years.
You're a mentor Helping people.
Yeah, mentor's good, it's justlike you don't like to be called

(45:54):
trainer.
I don't like to be calledbusiness coach because I don't
charge money for it.
My win on it, you know, myhippie hypothesis to the whole
thing is if I get more peoplewith good hearts, more squalys,
more other people that have thisamazing heart, make them bad
asses in business.
Now they become successful andthey do things for the world.

(46:14):
Right, jesus, could you?

Speaker 2 (46:16):
I mean it's one of my ultimate goals.
Yeah, going through this road,yeah, this to become an angel
investor, yeah, I Swear to you Ican't tell you how many people
I would I would love for that tobe Attain a goal where that was

(46:36):
my business.
Yeah, just to help these drivenpeople and, and, and.
You're doing this off of Energy, you're doing this off of
knowing this is a good personand they're an ass-kicker, and
they've, they've, and theydeserve a break.
They've killed it.
Yeah, and you know, becausepeople don't like to hear that

(46:57):
they, you know, say no, none ofus, we don't deserve anything.
Yeah, but I think what we alldeserve is More, really, you
know, awesome people succeedingin business, small business,
because then we will have moreof that.

(47:18):
Right?

Speaker 1 (47:19):
absolutely.
It's a flywheel right and the,the wealthy are entitled.
They're entitled to theirsuccess.
I'm gonna have it.
My uncle was a doctor.
My cousin started a billiondollar company.
These are normal people to them.
I was with them at this familyreunion and he's an idiot.
He, you know dunks, is headedin the toilet at parties.
You know whatever you know, andit's like I can do that too,
and I think that's part of theproblem with the underdog

(47:40):
scenario is like they don't seethe normalcy of Wealthy people,
successful people.
They're normal, you know,completely normal, and in fact a
lot of them had been givenbreaks, right, but you're, some
of you aren't gonna be giventhose breaks and squally, and I
are talking about the ways thatyou can make up that distance,
you know, yeah, it's, it's uh,the, the, the breaks, yeah are

(48:01):
gonna come, yeah, from anintentional, educated grind,
yeah, which.
We did, and then learning how toback that off.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Which we say we didn't necessarily, yeah, in all
aspects follow.
Yeah, we grind, we grind it.
Yeah, we dirty gritty grind,yeah.
But I think where we would liketo help people, where I know
you want to help people, yeah,is Look, I'm willing to talk
about all my shortcomings andthe fact that I'm not there yet

(48:36):
and all my failures, becauseonce you've traveled through it,
once you've been through it,yeah, fuck man, yeah, not just
resilience, but the amount ofhelp that you can give people.
Sure, like a more intentional,yeah, educated grind, yeah.
And I'm just gonna speak formyself yeah, mine was just a

(48:57):
balls to the wall, passionate,like like go, yeah, determinated
motherfucker, yeah, I can't say, I can't say that there was a
whole lot of Educated, yeah,intentional.
I didn't follow handbook, maybeI didn't lean on mentors as

(49:19):
much as I should have.
No, I'm gonna do this, I can doit.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I didn't have any that I could think of you know.
Yeah, so for me it was anger.
Yeah, I was angry at the world.
I was angry, angry at thingsthat were unfair to me, people
that were unfair to me, peoplethat told me that I would never
Be able to do anything.
Yeah, you know how muchmotivation I gained from that,
every single.
It was hard, right, it's likeit.
Initially it was hard running abusiness and pursuing a degree

(49:44):
that was complex and, you know,every time I didn't want to pull
that chemistry book out at theend of the night.
I'm like they wouldn't want youto do that either.
You know I'd be at the gym.
I've told you this before.
I'd be at the gym and I'm likeI don't really want to do that
last pull.
They wouldn't want you to dothat last pull up, I mean.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
The, the, the Battles , the, the things, the obstacles
that you have to overcome.
Yeah, yourself, yeah, first andforemost, yeah the biggest?

Speaker 1 (50:09):
do you have yourself figured out?
Fuck, no meaning there.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
But, but I'm determined and I'm willing to
fucking figure it out every day.
I don't care how, how you know,but but now I know I'm trying
to Been many years and it's justthe same as physical rehab for
surgeries and, yeah, I'm tryingTo do things better.
I am trying to work with thatbe word a little bit more,

(50:36):
whether balance with whetherit's just a break right now and
give myself the the okay to doit.
Yeah, you know you've earned itand and I and I already feel
some of that, yeah, energy, yeah, coming back.
But it's scary as shit becauseyou feel like maybe you've lost
it, like maybe I lost that driveand that Creativity, and what

(50:57):
if it doesn't come back?
But then you're also that nextobstacle is gonna be the people
around you.
Yeah, they can squash you.
Yeah, squash you in the mostloving, most like, like good
intentioned way.
Yeah, squash you.
Yeah, because the stuff thatthey will.
You know well what happens ifthis doesn't work.

(51:19):
What are you gonna do if itdoesn't work?
What are you gonna do if itdoesn't work?
Well, you're, you need balance.
You shouldn't work so much.
You should.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Work on your business , not in your business.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Care about you the most sure, because most people
have followed that normal path.
And and more power.
More power to them if they'rehappy.
But we're not that way.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
No, and it's hard for people to see that because they
get the inundated with the samestuff everybody else does too.
Of course You're working toohard in your business, kind of
thing, and like, and I'm thefirst, yes, eventually you have
to get to a point where you'reworking on your business and
that's a hard shift.
No, they call it going from thegrass to the bleachers or
whatever.
And and that's a hard thingwhen you're gonna go up,
especially when you're used tolike I'm a big, like I don't

(52:05):
want a boss that doesn't workharder than me.
I don't want a boss that Isn'twilling to give up sacrifices.
I don't want a boss that I beatto work every day, so that in
itself, to be a leader worthfollowing is a lot of work.
Yeah right, it's like I won'tgive you a job that won't do
myself, and quite often I'll doit with you, right?
Oh, of course.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
It's a semi, with all the different types of training
I've done and and the teaching,people like, holy shit, yeah,
like I'm gonna try to crush you,but I'll stand right there and
I'll show you.
There's nothing that I'm gonnaput somebody else through,
mentally or physically, that Ihaven't done.
Or yes, because, yes, there'sno way Okay, yeah, there's no

(52:49):
way that you can authenticallyand with respect, yeah, manage
and lead people.
If you Can't prove that you'vedone it or you know how to do it
, yes, you'll get seen straightthrough.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Thank you straight through.
Thank you, thank you.
And that makes that on versusin.
So honestly, the answer is youhave to be able to jump between
both of them.
You have to work on yourbusiness.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
You gotta know when yeah, okay, I need to try.
I need now enough, enough.
Yeah, I need to try to find theright person.
Yeah, and that ain't easy.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I work.
I Worked at a Restaurant, youknow, and one of the things they
used to do at the restaurant iswe weren't, you know, like you
and I are into fitness, we liketo eat too, right?
They wouldn't allow you in a15-hour ship to eat incredible.
I had to actually look into therules and see if that was legal
.
But what they did was theyallowed the managers to eat a
couple meals a day and they ateright in front of you.
It's like how are you gonnaever respect that manager?

(53:46):
You know they were ruining thehorrible system, right?
You know, I want, like, most ofthe time when people have come
into my businesses, they thinkI'm the landscaper at times, you
know, and I like that, right, Ilike that a lot, so, so, I'm
gonna Shut.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
This will be a another time.
Yeah, we'll have to talk aboutthat.
Yeah, obedience versus respect.
Yeah, business something we'vebeat our heads against the wall
very often because, yeah, weboth believe in respect.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah, first, yeah and it's earned, not given.
But yeah, even with employees.
Yeah, I don't know it to you ifyou're not gonna give it to
them, but you gotta be careful?
Yeah, totally, they're notpeers, that was episode one,
folks.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
You know, no, I mean, don't take that the wrong way.
No, disrespect, no, they're notbelow whatsoever Respect, but
you gotta be careful.
I'm just helping a colleagueout who literally might have
just, I mean, run the risk ofcrumbling a business because

(54:52):
Becoming too much of a peer withhis workers.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
See, that's a problem Nobody knows about, but it is a
problem.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Drinking and going out with them.
And then the next thing, youknow, yeah, they're looking at
you like, hey, hippocrates, whatare you trying to reel me in
for?
And talk to me about disciplinebecause you.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
That's the other side of business.
Yeah, that's the part thatnobody talks about, because we
care about these people.
You and I are carrying peoplein general.
Of course, you're gonna careabout the people you work with
every single yeah and what areyou gonna get from a cutthroat
businessman?

Speaker 2 (55:19):
yeah, slow to hire, quick to fire.
Yep, I've heard it countlesstimes.
Yeah, countless, yeah, it's thetruth.
Yeah, it's so hard for me to bethat way with people.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Oh man, I always think I don't think about the
person, I think about theirfamily, I think all these other
things and it it's hard.
But you know mark Randolph,he's the founder of Netflix.
He has some good stuff outthere and he.
One thing I love about him ishe's out there and he's teaching
people business.
He wants nothing in return.
There's not very many peopleout there like that.
But he said you have to treatyour business like a sports team
and I thought that was prettydecent.

(55:54):
Actually, it's like so, whensomebody isn't making the cut,
you have to make those cuts.
Yeah, and that's one thing Ialways struggled with, because
traditionally, if you look atmost businesses as they grow,
they lose most the originalstaff, but we're such loyal
people that's hard to evenfathom, right?
So, but you owe the success ofyour business and we went over
this in the episode you owe itto yourself, your family, your

(56:17):
really good employees that areworking hard, and the future of
what you'll do with that success.
If you let somebody drag theship down just because you feel
bad for them, it's like they'vedone that.
You didn't do that right.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
I just when you're driven, you're passionate, and
the other P word I'm sure slidesin there a little too much the
perfectionism which therebecomes this really tough battle
that I've literally sat downand talked squally like this Are

(56:50):
you being a perfectionist or isthis person really not living
up to your standards?
And that's very difficult.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
I mean honestly.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
I would have ended up doing it anyway, but one of the
reasons that I, once I'm in atype of business I can study the
economics long enough to seethere are some that just aren't.
Doesn't fly, doesn't work.
Thank you, yes, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
No, some business models don't work.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I don't care what anybody says.
Now it can work if you scalethat business model and turn it
into, let's say, a franchise,but just that one particular
business.
So there's a lot of entities inthe quote unquote fitness world
that unfortunately, someindividuals out there thinking
about some things don't work forthe long haul.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
And you'll have people online that are real
intentioned.
That'll tell you they will,just so they can sell something.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
So I always wanted to do something very super
extraordinary, and when I sayextraordinary I mean every
minute of the day.
Everything, everything that hadto do with our product was
extra ordinary.
I don't think a lot of peoplereally break that word down
often enough and realize itdoesn't mean I'm better than
anybody else, but it means thatthere's not one chance for

(58:04):
anybody to ever say that everywaking minute of every day I'm
not out of the ordinary withwhat I do.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Yeah, ok, and you get what you aim for too, right?
Right, by making it known, bypronouncing it and recognizing
it.
But individuals.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
I had working with me other strength conditioning
specialists, trainers a littlebit of friction, because they're
like oh, why you so this?
Why you so that You're aboveand you want to be so
extraordinary, why can't youjust?
No, this is what I want, and ifyou can't put in the time to be

(58:38):
that, then I don't want it.
It was one of the reasons Istarted shifting from the
training to building theatmosphere.
Yeah, because I knew that wassomething I could control.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Man, this has been awesome.
Squally, yeah, so unfortunatelywe're at an hour, but I mean
really the take-homes that wewanted for people today is, once
again, I think you have toembrace the brine.
I think it's a thing that youcan use as a tool.
Learning how to finally pivotout of that is difficult.
Talking about content, it's oneof the few ways in this world
that we can.

(59:09):
I read founder of Walmart'sbook and he said one of the ways
you can compete with small martas a small business is you can
personalize your business.
What better way to show whatyour business is than talking on
camera like this, showing whoyour employees are?
It is important Go overcomeyour fear with the content stuff
, because your success is moreimportant and what you're going

(59:29):
to do with it, and I'm talkingto squally today, too, about
that.
Yeah, you have to and embracethe grind until you don't have
to.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Well, exactly, and you know.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
And learn to live life too, because it's important
Grind with capital letters.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Somehow you have to put the reins on it.
You have to know how to stayentrenched, but you've got to
know how to keep the reins, Iagree, and harness it.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
We'll probably come back with squally at some point
to see if we got this grindthing a little bit more figured
out and how to shift that off.
So be careful with it.
It's a great tool, but adangerous one.
Yeah, great time, Tyler, Thankyou.
Oh, thank you, man, for comingon.
At least we got an hour to chat.
Thanks for tuning in Underdogs,Bootstrapers and Game Changers.
We'll be back with anotherepisode next week.