Bonus - PAX East 2025 - Underplayed

Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Thank you for pressing start on this bonus episode of
Underplayed, Kzum's indie video game podcast.
Today we talk about many of the indie games from PAX East 2025.

(00:28):
Here on Underplayed, we review indie games of all kinds.
The games with small budgets butbig hearts, the lesser known
experiences with imaginative ideas.
I'm Bo Po, but it's not only me.There's a guy with a flow who's
on a journey. So won't you put your hands
together, please? For the Zeo Drifter, the indie

(00:48):
game Sifter, The Curse, Kraken, Mr. Disco Collar, What is going
on? Not too much, man.
I didn't even think of a rhyme, though I suppose I could have a
reference to PAX. You know, there's something
there with like, packing things away, but I didn't do it.
How are you? I'm doing just fine.
I also didn't think of a rhyme for you or any kind of reference

(01:11):
to PAX. But yes, we're here with this
bonus episode of Underplayed. We are here in mid to late May
2025. I am couple weeks back from PAX
East 2025 and this was my first gaming convention I think ever.

(01:32):
It was it was like really cool. So I got to go to this this
year, met a lot of really cool friends and just wanted to take
this opportunity to share about the experience.
And I know that you at home basewere able to play a couple of
the games demos on Steam. So you have some experience with

(01:53):
a lot of the games that were on the Expo hall floor.
So we're going to talk about a lot of the indie games that were
present at PAX East 2025. It's not going to be every
single indie game. I it's hard to play everything
there because there's a lot of people you have to wait in line
to play demos. There's only so much time, which
makes the opportunity to sit down with a demo that much more

(02:17):
special. Sometimes you're sitting down,
you're just going like, I'm spending a good 10/15/20 minutes
with this game just in this moment, in one of my several
days here. That's like kind of nice.
So we're going to go through, we're going to talk about the
different booths I went to. I got some interviews with
publishers, hackers and developers, and I'm really

(02:40):
excited to share. So we're going to move on to
talking about all things PAX East.
But before we do that, if you'relistening to Underplayed right
now, thank you so much. There are a couple of very easy
and free ways to support us. If you want, you can give us a
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(03:01):
If you give us a follow on your podcast platform of choice, that
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And also, if you have a friend who likes indie games, please
feel free to share our podcast with them too.
O, it's time to move on to our ACKS episode.
Outline, outline, outline. So one of the booths I went to

(03:24):
was Soft Source, and Soft Sourceis super impressive because they
had six games on display. They are based in Singapore and
they have a variety of games. You'll hear about this in our
interview with Natalie, the community manager for Soft
Source. We're going to hear about a lot

(03:45):
of the games that they're working on publishing.
I'm here with Matt from Soft Source here at the booth at PAX
East. How are you doing that?
I'm doing good, just a bit tiredbut I'm I'm good.
I'm still going strong. Yeah, you've had a long day
here. What is the booth experience
been like with people coming by to play games published by Soft
Source? It's been really great,

(04:05):
actually. People here are so supportive
and they're so open to like talking about it, talking about
games in general, getting feedback from the game, from the
gamers and everything. We don't see that a lot in Asia.
I'm not sure if I can I should say that on the microphone, but
in America, people here are so open to talking about games and
everything and everyone's just been really friendly and nice

(04:25):
and everything. So it's been pretty good so far.
That's. Great, congratulations.
Can you talk about the soft source team and how it's
made-up? Who's on the soft source team?
So we have me, I'm the PR community manager.
So I handle the PR stuff, the social media, the marketing
stuff. And then we have two QA
specialists who do the QA who dothe hard work while I sit down

(04:47):
and do nothing. And then we and then we have
basically the lead of our team. He's our licensing manager, but
he also, he also tells us what to do.
Basically, yeah, we're all basedin Singapore.
OK, all based in Singapore. Great.
And can you talk about the gamesthat you have showcased here at
the Soft Source booth? Yeah.
Sure, maybe I'll go alphabetically if that's easier.

(05:10):
That works. Yeah, because we have quite a
lot. We have six games here in the
booth. So maybe I'll start with As I
Begin to Dream. It's a puzzle game.
It's about a little girl who hasto navigate kind of like a
mysterious dream world. And she has a very strange power
where she can actually manipulate the environment
around her. So it kind of takes the puzzle
platforming aspect of like platforming and mix it into like

(05:32):
a kind of you control how you progress through the environment
kind of thing. Instead of like, like, for
example, climbing a Cliff or tree, you make the tree to you,
you know, yeah, you make the world easier for you to
navigate. So I think that's a very
interesting mechanic that it has.
And this is one of the games that was recently in Next Fest.
Yes, yes, it was in Steam Next Fest.
We got a lot of good feedback, we got a lot of love for the

(05:54):
game. We saw a lot of streamers play
and we're so happy because it isfrom Indonesia, the developers
Stray Flux and it's actually their first game so.
Oh wow yeah. So it's actually their first
game so they put a lot of love and effort to it and I really, I
really love the game. It's such a good game.
The art is beautiful, it's all hand drawn and everything so.
I love a puzzle platform and this is one of the ones I played
during next class. Yeah.

(06:15):
It's really good. It's great.
Yeah. So maybe I can go to Baja and
the Wapak tree. Yes.
Yeah. So this is a Arabian puzzle game
actually released today on 8 Mayon Steam with consoles coming
later in the year. So I don't know if you play
Aquaria, if anyone here has played Aquaria, but it's kind of
like that or minus the compact and everything.

(06:37):
It's very much a puzzle game. It's stunning, it's beautiful,
It tells kind of like a very lesser tale of like Arabian
mythology. We don't see that a lot in
gaming sphere, in the gaming media or just media in general.
It's been very underrepresented.So I think that's a really
important thing that both the developers and US wanted to

(06:58):
really emphasize upon is that, hell, it really gives a very
sincere interpretation of Arabian mythology.
Yeah. And then we can move on to
Floodbreaker. So we recently announced this,
actually, last week actually, and it has gotten a lot of love,
especially in Japan, which we are so happy about.
I think it's the art style combined with like the the

(07:18):
gothic teams that really makes it do stand out well.
And it's a gothic Metroidvania rope.
Like I think the term is ropevania.
I'm not sure that, I'm not sure if that's commonly used but but
one of the main inspirations wasCastlevania if you couldn't
tell. Yes, I could tell.
Yeah, right away. Yeah.
It's I'm drawn to it because I love a Metrovania and I love

(07:39):
Castlevania. Yeah, it's the art sounds really
beautiful. The characters are really
beautifully drawn. The environment is very gothic.
It's dark. It's sad.
Why are you playing this game? You're so sad.
I play a lot of. Sad games, so I'm just drawn to
that. I love it.
But it's a, it's a Metrovania. You know, you're gonna die a lot
of times. You wanna get eaten a lot of

(07:59):
times, you're gonna be sad, you're gonna rage.
But Metravania, it's your job tobe sad and rage with.
So it's a beautiful game. I love it, you know?
OK, next one. Khedora.
Yes. I think you played this too.
I did play Khedora. I played both As I Began to
Dream and Khedora during next fest.
So yeah, recently also in Ski Mix Fest, the art stars also
hand drawn. Indonesians love drawing their

(08:21):
own art, which is we love to seeit.
Yes, yeah, a lot of people love the art.
It's been like them to like Studio Guilby, and it's like
Studio Guilby but Southeast Asian, because it's set in the
Southeast Asian village. And the story and the characters
and everything, the mannerisms, the dialogue is all selfies,
very Southeast Asian. So the story is basically you're

(08:41):
trapped in the time loop, and then you will just have to break
the time loop. But because of that, you have to
kind of navigate a lot of like, monsters, a lot of creatures,
you know? Typical day in a ghost life,
right? Yeah.
So there's Kajora for you. Beautiful game coming out soon,
hopefully Midnight Dreams. Yes.
So this is another really stunning game.

(09:03):
So this is a 3D horror game. Think of it like Little
Nightmares, Dark, you know, thatkind of thing.
That kind of looks like me, I think.
Yeah, that's you. That's you.
I have a backpack and I'm in what looks like kind of a scary
bedroom. Yeah.
So the particular is a child. So if you want to look at
yourself as a child, that's why.I was once a child so I can kind

(09:24):
of relate. Yeah, so the is a child, and the
interesting thing is that he's diagnosed with autism.
So one of the main things the developer really wanted to do is
kind of educate audiences on like autism spectrum disorder.
Not say that isn't much education or information about
the topic, but in the form that's very immersive because
gaming is the most immersive form of media ever.

(09:47):
So in that way to kind of like show audiences how maybe the
world appears in the mind of a 8year old boy who has autism.
I think that's really interesting.
And of course, he's stuck in thenightmare world because kids
don't go true enough every day. So that's one thing I have.
I don't like horror games, so I don't play Midnight Dreams.

(10:07):
But. But it shows the variety that
you have here. Yeah.
So in a lot of these games, and pretty much all of them, you're
showcasing a different kind of gameplay style or a different
perspective, maybe a different kind of art style.
What does it mean, the soft source, to be able to represent
all these kinds of art and all these different kinds of
stories? Yeah.
We really don't like to kind of specialize in a specific genre

(10:29):
or art style. Not say there's any problem with
that, but I think there's so many cool games out there and if
you look at your own favorite games, you can't say there's a
distinct style or genre that youlike.
Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, but most likely game A
that you like is not exactly like game B that you like in
terms of art style, direction, genre.

(10:50):
So I think it's very important to kind of represent those
different genres. We have so many different genres
here. We have horror, we have puzzle
adventure, Metropania, rogue light games.
So and I think what we really want to do is cater to gamers of
all types. We want to cater to the cozy
gamers. If as I begin the dream and
culture, we want to cater to thehorror lovers with men that

(11:11):
dreams and fracture shimmer and then we are not cater to the
nerds who love Metropania with Blood Breaker.
So that's one important thing. And art style is really
important to us. We love stylized art and all our
games have been distinct art styles and we love there were
our games. And.
No, there's no one but art style.
So all art styles are valid and all art styles are beautiful in

(11:32):
their own way. So that's one thing we really
enjoy. I love that.
I love that so much. Well, Nat, thank you so much for
your time and congratulations onsuch a beautiful booth and the
variety of games you're working on.
Thank. You.
Thank you. Thank you for coming down and
checking us out. Absolutely have a great rest of
your PAX East. So I'm just very inspired by how
much they're looking to represent so much art, so many

(11:53):
different voices. They're working with all kinds
of developers from around the world.
And we've got games that I thinkreally speak to you.
I mean, I you've got. I already got some tabs open.
I know you've got. Some stuff to a wish.
List. There are survival horror games
they're working on. There's The Fractured Shimmer,
which I don't think Nat got to talk about as much, but I'll go

(12:13):
through the games in alphabetical order again.
It was As I began to dream, Bahamut and the Walk Walk,
Bloodbreaker, Labyrinth of the Witch, The Fractured Shimmer,
Cadjoura and Midnight Dreams. Yeah, the Fractured Shimmer and
Midnight Dreams being more horror based, Bloodbreaker being
a metroidvania that might be down your alley.
And then I got to play As I Began to Dream and Cadjoura

(12:36):
during next fests. I also was very kindly given a
key to Bahamut and the Walk WalkTree by Natalyn ahead of PAX
East. And I got a chance to play
through the whole game on streamin the days after I returned.
So I'm going to do a mini reviewof Bahamut and the Walk Walk
Tree. This is a game that's, like

(12:58):
Natalyn said, is inspired by Arabian mythology.
And so you see all of these verymagical creatures, you play as
this being that is born from theeponymous walk walk tree in the
middle of the Mayan Ocean. And the Mayan Ocean is where all
of life is created through this balance between Bahamut, the

(13:23):
spirit of lights, and phallic, the spirit of dark.
They have a falling out and you are supposed to restore balance
and finds Bahamuts in this big sort of ocean setting.
It's a beautiful game. It is 2D, you're swimming
everywhere, which might not sound appealing to people who
don't like swimming sections andplatforming games, for instance,

(13:46):
but I found this game to be justlovely and beautiful.
It is an adventure game mixed with puzzle solving here and
there. I'd say a lot of the puzzle
solving comes down to finding your way.
It's atmospheric. I found this to just be super
artful. It is a short game too.
I think I I finished it in about3 1/2 hours or something like

(14:10):
that. I did, yes.
So it's a nice short game with avery like simple, easy story to
follow that will give you some insight into Arabian mythology.
We love a short game. We do, Yes we do.
So had an awesome time talking with Nataline at Soft Source.
So thank you so much, Nats for your time.

(14:54):
Disco. There's another booth called
Byte Rockers Games that was on the show floor and they had a
couple of games that were from BTF and they are working on 2
very different games right now. Constance and the Berlin
Apartments, and I understand youhad a chance to play the

(15:15):
Constance demo. Yeah, I did.
I remember I I saw Constance in some showcase somewhere quite a
while back and was drawn to it. I think I even have like a a
Google doc somewhere where I wasjust like maybe donating plasma
at the time. And I was just like typing with
one hand all the games that thatlooked cool and that was one of
them. But yeah, I got to try it out

(15:36):
and I, I would say that the controls feel really great as
you would hope that they would. I like the art style quite a
lot. And I really, I had a lot of fun
with not as much like the combat, but like the the
platforming challenges. I think the platforming
challenges that I encountered were really creative and

(15:57):
intelligently designed and just were like I got to the point
where some of them were frustrating too, not because
they were like impossible, but because they were just like high
skill ceiling, but still doable,you know?
Yeah, this was a hard demo. I think I only played up to the
point where you beat a boss, butI died so many times trying to

(16:18):
beat that boss. Yeah, I don't think I got to a
boss that was like difficult, but I was like finding all these
alternate paths and I don't knowif I was on the the correct path
for a while there. They have a lot blocked off so
you can't get too far. But yeah, I was just finding
like every room I got to, they were like two paths to take.
And so I would, yeah, I would just kinda like, I think I know

(16:41):
which one's the right one, but I'm gonna try this one.
And I ended up way up in the northwest somewhere before I was
just like, OK, I, I, I understand and, and feels great
and I'm looking forward to it. I don't like to compare games to
other games. I think each game is its own
entity, but I think there is an undeniable comparison or

(17:03):
influence from Hollow Knight given all of the like saws, saw
blades and stuff that you encounter.
Yeah, it's a Metroidvania with avery similar art style.
Maybe not as dark as Hollow Knights.
It's got this artful side to it.It's you wield a paintbrush and
you're swinging A paintbrush. That's how you're getting a lot

(17:23):
of your powers. And I think there's some mental
health topics explored here. So it's kind of reminding me of
Celeste in a way, too. Yeah.
And then also from BTF, we have the Berlin Apartments.
I don't know if you've had a chance to look into this one,
but this is one of those demos that I played after the fest.
Yeah, I've got the Steam page open right now.

(17:44):
What does the pitch say on the steam page for this?
One apartment. Many stories witness turning
points in the lives of the inhabitants of an apartment in
Berlin over the course of a whole century.
And that that description even sort of cements the like one
game I'm thinking of the most, which is Goragoa.
Now, I don't think that this is going to be like a puzzle game

(18:04):
like Goragoa was, but you see the art style is kind of similar
and you see different points in time.
And so I just, I think that's interesting.
It might be the parts of Goragoathat I liked the most.
That's a very interesting comparison, Yeah.
I played the demo in its entirety, and we got to see a
few of the time periods that arehinted at there in the Steam

(18:29):
storefront description. So this takes place I think in
its earliest. In the demo, we're in the 1930s,
and then it goes all the way. I think the the game will go all
the way into the year 2020 during the pandemic.
So in the course of this game, we'll see the rise of the Nazi
Party in the early years. We'll see a lot of the Cold War

(18:50):
stuff somewhere in the middle, and then we'll get to more
modern times. And I think how this is framed,
according to the store page, it says, quote, a handyman is
tasked with refurbishing an old apartment in the city of Berlin,
Germany. In the course of his extensive
renovation work, he digs deeper and deeper into the history of
the apartments. End Quote.

(19:10):
So he's finding items, I think these mementos, these objects
that tell the story of the people who have lived in the
apartments and we get to live their lives, or at least a part
of their lives through their gaze.
It's in the first person and in every single time period.
You're going to be doing different things.
You might be folding an airplaneand throwing it out the window,

(19:33):
watering plants. You might be examining
photography equipments. You might be reading letters
from people that you know. You might be answering phone
calls from people waiting for you down in the street and their
car. So I'm very interested to see
how all of this weaves together.Right now, the demo is a montage

(19:54):
of sorts. I don't know if that's how the
full game will end up being, butI'm super interested in the
Berlin apartment. And this is one that you and a
couple of our friends have earmarked as being a, quote,
BOPO game before. So yeah, it I'm just so looking
forward to this. It's just my jam.
It's also giving. I don't know if you heard about

(20:17):
the new Robert Zemeckis film here starring Tom Hanks.
It's a movie that's set in the same living room and it's got
the same like locked down shots for the whole film.
And it takes place over many years from before the the house
was built to more modern times and you just see a place from a

(20:41):
still perspective. It's kind of giving me those
vibes too. So yeah, that's one I'm I'm
really looking forward to. I talked a little bit about Soft

(21:10):
Source and how many games they're publishing just with one
publisher. There's another sort of
collective that I find really inspirational, and that was the
Boston Indie Game Developers. This is a collective of
developers in the local Boston area who have pulled together
their resources and they've gotten a booth together and

(21:32):
they're just showing off not only their individual games, but
how cool their collective is in the city.
And so I got to interview Matt Cortright, who is at Winter Camp
Studio and is working on a game called The Midnight Exorcist.
Just one of several games you were able to find if you were

(21:53):
lucky enough to stumble across their booth at PAX East 2025.
So here is the interview with Matt from the Boston Indie Game
Developers group. I am at the local Boston Indie
Game Developers groups. Did I get that memories correct?
Yeah, Boston Indie Game Developers were a recently
formed collective of local indiedevs.

(22:15):
All with a strong connection to the Boston area.
We have a couple of games on view.
Gary Packs. And what are your questions?
How can I know? Thank you so much for your time.
Your name's Matt. Can you talk to me about your
team in your game? Absolutely.
My name is Matt Portright, I'm the lead artist at Winter Camp
Studio, and we are here with ourdebut title, Midnight Exorcist,
which is a investigative spooky horror puzzle game set in a

(22:37):
haunted Art Museum. I love that premise so much.
I'm watching the gameplay right now of someone else playing and
it makes me want to just jump inline and and play it.
Can you tell me a little bit about the other games here?
Yes. So there are 4 playable demos
that are here in addition to ourtitle.
You have Unsent, which is a kindof kooky puzzle platformer game
with a lot of lives taken from Psychonauts.

(23:00):
You play as a recently hired postal worker working for the
Unsentiment department and your your job is.
I don't want to give. Too much away, but basically
you're going to. Help.
A lot of letters. That never found their
recipients find their way yeah basic premise of the game from a
sort of a narrative standpoint is that this you you are in the

(23:23):
regulatory realm where a lot of human superstitions and taboos
have accreted and formed themselves into a sort of a
bureaucratic state and and you're you're a cog in that
machine just trying to make yourway and and do the best you can.
Then also we have Sincerely Robin, which is my fifty birds

(23:43):
in a trench coat. It's a B&B simulation where you
play as the Robin who has inherited their grandfather's
B&B and is going to try to do their best to revitalize the
business, serve their community.You flit around to your
neighbors, make them food and hear their stories.

(24:05):
Lastly, Ghost Jukebox is a cozy rhythm game where you play as a
ghost music therapist and your job is to serve as a therapist
who's going to help the spirits of the recently deceased to find
their place in the afterlife. It's a rhythm game where you're

(24:26):
kind of trying to identify the kinds of music that's going to
help each individual client to figure figure out how best that
they're going to navigate this transition and figure out how to
move in this new space. Very nice, very nice.
What I love about this booth is.You can go to each of the games
here and it almost feels like you're going to a different
exhibitor, but you're all a collective.

(24:47):
How did you find each other? How did all these teams like
come together initially? Well, the Boston indie community
is actually a really strongly developed space.
So there's a lot of pre-existingrelationships here that are
formed out of like the academic community.
Some of our games we have a lot of students and now alumni from,
for instance, Clark University, which is really close by

(25:07):
Worcester Polytechnic also. So that kind of existing
academic community in the Bostonarea is definitely a big part of
why we're all together here. But it's also just like with an
event like Max, developers like us absolutely want to be
participating. And it's just a question of
trying to figure out how do we gather the resources necessary
and like do it in a way that feels like it's appropriately

(25:29):
scaled to projects that are for our size and our resources.
And for my money, quite literally the best way to do
that is as a collective, you know, how can we cool our
resources? We only need so much space.
We're not, we're not a AAA studio.
We're not even a AA studio. We're we're small, but how can
we use that Team up with other other studios and just make sure

(25:52):
that we can do the important part and just get our product in
front of the audience and see what they think about it.
I love how you're boosting each other up when you do that.
You allow maybe greater success across the board when you're not
in an event like that. How do you support each other?
How do you talk to each other? How do you create community?
You know, we use the tools that we have available to us.
I think that my team is largely remote, and so we've got used to

(26:15):
having Discord be kind of our nerve center.
And I think that's true for thisgroup as well.
You know, we're always exchanging information.
It's kind of the beauty of having access to really scalable
asynchronous communication is you can just be constantly
making those connections betweenindividuals, between groups of
people. The systems are in place at this
point for a really rich cross pollination of different ideas.

(26:38):
And that can be inside of the development space as far as like
the kinds of the kinds of products that we're trying to
build, the kinds of experiences that we're trying to give to our
audience. But also the how to go about
solving the logistical problems that studios like us face in
terms of how to get our productsout there, how to do events like
packs. Yeah, that's, that's how we do

(26:59):
it. That's really awesome.
Is there anything else you want to share about the Collective or
this booth? Oh gosh, we're really hopeful
that we can come back to PAX again next year, make this
happen. It's this is the first time that
this collective has been able totake advantage of an opportunity
like this. And you know, we've we've
learned so much. It's been an absolute blast
getting to show our game to so many people who are so

(27:21):
passionate about this kind of product.
It's been so wonderful just to be able to see people.
When you're a small developer, it's harder to get your product
in front of people that you don't know.
A lot of stuff is word and mouth.
So when when you have an opportunity like this where you
can be standing here on the floor and backs, somebody walks
up. You've never met them before and
you see them and they just kind of look over somebody else's

(27:42):
shoulder and they go, huh, what's that?
And the seat opens up and they go down and they sit down.
They put the headphones on and they stive into your game.
And you can see them starting tonod their head.
Be like, OK, OK, I this is cool.Nothing meets that feeling.
It's just amazing. And we are addicted to it and we
are definitely coming back. Awesome.
Well, I love that for you all. And this is a great reminder for

(28:03):
anybody planning to go to PAX East in 2026.
Look out for the local Boston indie game developers.
Matt, thank you so much for yourtime and an absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much. So what I love about that is
just seeing all of these locals come together and make something
arguably greater than if any of them were trying to tough it out
on their own. Yeah, I, I mean, probably not a

(28:24):
shocker to anybody listening that, you know, the public radio
indie game podcast is like superinto the idea of collectivism,
like shocker. No, it reminded me of KZM.
Yeah, in a way. Yeah, and just like, do you
remember when we had Jack on forthe Donut County episode and he
started talking about like, crickets or whatever and their

(28:48):
collective, I don't think he hada word for it, Collective
synchrony something. But basically, like everybody
benefited a little bit better byworking together instead.
Of even though they're competitive in a way, like
they're all battling for audience's time every every
person who plays an indie game only has so much time to play

(29:10):
indie games, so they nobody can play every indie game.
So in a way, you could look at it as, oh, they have something
to kind of compete for, but working together, they really
showcase what's special about what they're each creating.
And these four games President, which again are Unsent, the
Midnight Exorcist, Sincerely Robin and Ghost Jukebox.

(29:31):
They just all are different and could appeal to a wide variety
of people. I liked how they handed out
these really cool postcards at the booth too.
So I got postcards for the Midnight Exorcist, Unsent and
Sincerely Robin. I did get to sit down and play
Sincerely Robin first before I talked to Matt, and this was the

(29:54):
B&B game where you're running around grabbing ingredients to
make smoothies and things. You're a bird and you're going
around and helping people out. Just super wholesome, super
nice. It felt great to flap around and
fly around this environment. Then I talked to Matt and, you
know, at these events, these exhibitors talk all day long.

(30:19):
And what I loved about Matt is he came up and started talking
to me and he's eating ice cream because he's, he's trying to eat
something really cold. So relax his.
Throat, it's like it's it's ice cream with a purpose.
It is instead of just for the love.
Of the IT is, it is. So we all love ice cream, but
then sometimes you also need something cold to relax the

(30:41):
vocal cords, right? And I was like, yeah, would you
would you mind being interviewedfor a bit?
And he was like, yeah, let me just finish this.
And then he told me about all the games he's working on The
Midnight Exorcist. I got a chance to then sit down
and play Unsense, which is the 3D platformer he talked about.
And Unsent was super fun. I got to talk to the game's

(31:04):
producer, Alex, as I was waitingfor the game and we were talking
shop about 3D platformers. You know, we were talking about
the comparison of Unsent to Psychonauts, which I had played
before and Alex was super familiar with.
But then I was asking him if he knew about ukulele because I was
getting ukulele vibes from Unsent.

(31:25):
He hadn't heard of it. He also hadn't heard of Cavern
of Dreams. So we were giving suggestions
back and forth of 3D platformersto you.
You. Got to advocate for Smooshy too,
I feel. Oh yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I didn't mention that one.There are just so many.
We just talked about how it seems like we're we've entered a
renaissance for 3D platformers, which I'm I'm super thankful

(31:47):
for. Unsense was so fun.
It was very much like Psychonauts.
You're collecting. I think there were stamps hidden
everywhere and I was trying to find the more hidden ones.
Once you find a certain amount, you can go different places and
there's a trip wire in the demo where once you get to a certain

(32:08):
point it just ends. And I got there.
It feels really good. The music is awesome in this
game. It's funky.
It's one of those songs that plays over and over, so you
might think it it would get kindof tiring, but I did not mind
listening to the really cool soundscape of Unsense Cool.
So again, thank you to Matt fromthe Boston Indie Game Developers

(32:31):
booth. I'm excited to see what they
have on display next year. Man, you know, I would love to
have the job that the guy in Unsense has.
Like you get a, you get a take all this mail that never got to
its home, which you know, like what a noble task in the 1st
place. But you also get a sort of like
be an investigator. Like if someone's moved you, you

(32:53):
get to start like investigating.OK, where did this person go?
Sounds a little fun to me. If I ever retired, Loli would
love to have that job. You know what, I kind of want
you to play this one. I think you will really like it.
I'll try to give it a shot, it'son the wish list now.
Sweet. At the Toge booth I got to play

(33:41):
the demo for a game called Compensation Not Guaranteed.
I have a little business card. There we know Toge.
And you should be really interested in compensation not
guaranteed, because this is basically Papers Please with an
even greater potential for showing empathy, I think, or

(34:01):
showing cruelty. This is a game that is very
clearly inspired by Papers Please, which we reviewed this
past season. The same page says peek into
Southeast Asian politics througha lens darkly.
Check ownership for authenticity.
Listen to stories, decide who should give up their land in the
name of progress. So in compensation not

(34:26):
guaranteed, there's this countryemerging and as people are
giving up their land and their property to the government, you
are working for the government trying to determine whether they
should be compensated for what they are giving up.
So you're talking to lots of people who have varying degrees

(34:47):
of interpersonal conflicts. You understand some factions
that are emerging. You also just understand
people's personal struggles and you are actually evaluating
their documents. You're doing the papers please
thing of looking at their ID card and a certificate and
seeing if their information matches, but you're given the

(35:09):
freedom to deny or approve them for compensation.
An I think this is a little bit deeper than Papers Please, where
you can have longer conversations.
You know, when Papers Please people would approach the window
and they'd have just a little back and forth with you.
They might shout something at you if you deny them, but that's

(35:32):
it. Here.
It's almost like an interview that you're having in a way.
Part of the process is looking at the documents.
Part of it too, is having this dialogue and understanding their
story, and I think from that, your own interpretation, your
own feelings come into it a little bit more.

(35:53):
This has a really interesting art style.
It has animal characters. They're just very expressive,
and I think dreams play a part in this too.
It seems like after every day you have the opportunity to
maybe dream about what's going on, so there's an abstract side
of what's going on too. I played this so long, I made

(36:18):
the person behind me in line wait so long to play this game
and I felt so you're. Such a jerk.
I am, but I was so drawn into this.
So yeah, this is the one game from the Togei booth that I got
to play and I'm very thankful that I did.
I also got to meet a Togei community super fan named Rashad

(36:38):
who was volunteering at the booth.
I guess Rashad is really super active in their discord and it
was really excited to talk to meas someone who loves indie
games. And so I just wanted to give a
shout out to Rashad who also is working on a game of their own.
I don't know what the game is. I I think it was a little too
early to learn those details, but we wish Rashad the best.

(37:03):
And just to like throw this out there, we have played a few Toge
production games for the podcast, so you'll remember if
you're a long time listener. Space for the Unbound was one of
our featured games, and When thePast Was Around was a secret
game a few seasons ago. Yeah, Rashad asked if I had
played Coffee Talk. I said no, but I have played A

(37:23):
Space for the Unbounds. I talked about how that's one of
my favorite narrative indie games and I got some some indie
cred points. There you go.
These guys, they just don't believe it until we we talk the
talk. I was like, see, we're not
playing around. So next I want to talk about
Giga Sword. This is one that I think you

(37:45):
will really like. This is 1 I played after the
convention. Yeah, Cater Blossom, our friend
Cater Blossom sent me like 6 demos or something that she was
like, you're going to love theseones.
And Giga Sword was one of them. And I, I can tell you a little
bit, she went on a little bit more about the Giga Sword dev,
but I'll, I'll let you go ahead first.

(38:06):
Yeah. So this is at the Akapara booth.
This is a metroidvania that is just super simple.
On the presentation, you lay as a character named Ezra and you
have a big sword. And what's cool about this is
it's a Metroidvania where you have this really powerful
weapon, but you can stick it in the ground, which then allows

(38:28):
you more mobility. This is how you're solving
puzzles. Sometimes you stick your sword
in the ground, then you can jumpmuch higher.
You can grab onto ledges. You can crawl through tight
spaces. Did a little bit of that in
Panzer Paladin. Oh amazing.
Yeah, I think it's got some Panzer Paladin vibes going on,
yes. So sometimes you have to

(38:50):
separate yourself from your sword and you have to climb
ladders and stuff to open a door.
And then maybe you reunite yourself with your sword.
You use your sword as a key. You're inserting your sword into
doors and elevator devices so that it it moves upward.
Sometimes the question is not just how do I defeat the enemies

(39:11):
in this room with my sword, It is how do I use my sword and
also separate myself from the sword to get through this room
as a puzzle. So it's a great mix of combat,
great mix of exploration, great mix of of puzzle solving as
well. Yeah, Cater Blossom said that
she had chatted with the dev fora little while and that that dev

(39:33):
was, in her words, more passionate about their game than
any other dev she's talked. To basically, yeah, I wish I had
the chance to play this on the show floor.
It's one of those ones where every time I walked by, it was
super busy. And I think the energy of the
developer and the publisher can sometimes help Dr. crowds if

(39:54):
someone is just really passionate about their game.
People not only love playing thegame, they love talking to the
person making it. Speaking of talking to people,

(40:35):
making things, I talked to the people at the Buffalo Buffalo
booth multiple times. I went back to the I went to
this booth a few times. Disco Cola.
These people were so nice. They were so sick of you.
No, we had an adventure together.
I will get all into it now. So Buffalo.

(40:56):
Buffalo is based in Vancouver. They are working on a game
called Fresh Tracks. They also have some unannounced
projects and I'm looking forwardto those too.
I got to talk to Patrick Owens, the experienced director.
He's sort of leading this whole thing.
I got to talk to Nick, a level designer, and I also got to
interview Jacqueline Wong, who is the head of production at

(41:18):
Buffalo. Buffalo.
Their game Fresh Tracks is a roguelike skiing rhythm game,
and I'll let Jacqueline say moreright now.
I'm with Jacqueline at the FreshTracks Food.
Jacqueline, can you introduce yourself, please?
Yeah. Hi everyone.
I'm Jacqueline. I am Head of Production at
Buffalo Buffalo and I'm super excited to be showing off fresh

(41:42):
tracks at past this year. Cool.
So can you give us the quick? Pitch of fresh tracks.
Absolutely. Fresh Tracks is a non-stop music
driven adventure game where you are skiing to the beat.
It's similar to other music games like Beat Saber or Guitar
Hero, except that you're seamlessly flowing from one song

(42:03):
to the next on a journey to unlock several different genres
of music. Awesome.
And you were talking to me abouthow you can unlock things.
This is a roguelike, so every run's going to be a little bit
different, right? Totally.
So the levels are designed such that you'll be able to collect a
few different items along the way.
These either help you purchase power ups or upgrade your

(42:27):
equipment like you'll be able todo like double air hops, like a
double job, and things like thatto help make your ski run a bit
more successful in a future run.And as I'm standing here
watching these people play, I'm seeing different things on each
screen. It's hard to know where to look
because there's always somethingdifferent going on.
What's the reaction been like for people in your booth?

(42:47):
It's. Been overwhelmingly positive and
we're so overwhelmed and like honored to be hearing that kind
of feedback for a few members ofour team who've been like
designing a few levels now, they've been so close to the
game feeling like is. Someone going to like?
This, but no. We've been getting.
Such an awesome amount of. Back from like rhythm players,

(43:08):
robe like lovers, there's reallysomething for everyone in this
game. And depending on what kind of
music you like, it's kind of allcaptured here.
You've got like 28 original songs including a level based on
Compolian throat singing. Whoa.
If that's your jam, they've got it it.
Might become my new jam. That's not.
Yeah, I imagine it's a. It's a good way for.

(43:29):
People to be introduced to new genres, maybe through the the
music that you're putting in thegame, absolutely.
Can you talk a little bit more about?
Your team. Buffalo, Buffalo.
Yeah. So Buffalo.
Buffalo is studio based out of Vancouver, Canada.
We are out of size of about 20 people.
But basically it really all started with Patrick Owens in

(43:51):
society here. We started with a group of
concepts and to kind of built this, getting a little more
funding, being to build a team alittle bit more at a time.
And so now we're at the stage where this is our first game
we're going to properly release on Steam later this year.
And but we do have a few more projects in the pipe.
So we're now at that stage wherewe're trying to get our first

(44:12):
scheme out and also set new projects up for success.
OK, great. And then do you have any plans
for being in any showcases or aspart of Steam Next Fest or
anything like that? Yeah, yeah, we're actually going
to be in Steam Next Fest next month.
Awesome in June. Yes.
Awesome. OK.
I will look out for the demo then.
Yes. Well, anything else you want to
say about the? Booth or your experience at PAX?

(44:35):
This is the first time time for me personally and also the first
time for our studio being here. We've we've been loving every
moment I've been so far and hopethat anyone listening welcome.
Check out Fresh. Yes, I know I will.
Thank you, Jacqueline for your time.
I appreciate that. Thank.
You so Mongolian throat singing reactions.
I love it. Yeah, yeah.

(44:56):
I my reaction is so much more content for press start to
listen if nothing else but it. It looks really fun, but it also
looks really hard, like a littlebit of thumper sweats coming up
on my body right now. I think that's accurate.
So this was the first demo I played on the show floor.
And what I appreciated about it is that while it does seem a

(45:19):
little overwhelming, because you're you're skiing, you're
shifting lanes, you're jumping, crouching, leaning, collecting.
Notice that you're doing crouching and leaning.
Yes, sometimes a couple of thesemaneuvers at the simultaneously.
While you're doing all those things, I think the game
properly onboards you by associating different levels of

(45:43):
movement together in a way that categorizes them in your mind.
So you learn about jumping and crouching at the same time,
because that's very much on the Y axis.
You learn about leaning separatefrom that and so on.
I was talking to the level designer, Nick about this, and
this was something that they went through many iterations on.
It took them a long time to figure this out.

(46:05):
But the music rocks in this game.
It's so good. Every single stage you select is
going to have a different genre that is showcased.
I got to see the Mongolian throat singing level.
It's one of the harder ones. At one point, Patrick and Nick
were going back and forth on playing the hardest levels in
the game, and my jaw hit the floor.

(46:27):
It was it was these guys who have played these levels
hundreds of times, you know, andthey just know know what to
expect from their game and they're playing it masterfully,
flawlessly. Like when you've seen Master
Guitar Hero player or a Master Beat Saber player, right?
It, it was awe inspiring. It was so fun.

(46:49):
But the early levels, the demo that I played is quite
approachable and I really look forward to this.
It's going to be a next fest in June, and I encourage everybody
to check this one out if you like fun music and if you like
rhythm games. They took my business card, too,
where I say that I'm a juggler just as kind of like a fun fact.

(47:11):
And Patrick was extremely interested in juggling.
And so I actually pulled out some juggling balls.
You had them on you? I did, yeah.
I had TSA approved juggling balls with me at the convention.
TSA, you specifically went to Amazon and you were like TSA
approved juggling, but I need totake these packs.

(47:31):
That is kind of what happened because juggling equipment is
notoriously kind of hard to travel with because a lot of
juggling balls are filled with plastic seeds or sometimes
millets and sometimes TSA just thinks you're smuggling drugs,
you know, just semi openly in your luggage.
No, I'm just, I'm just a clown, man.

(47:54):
I'm. Not yeah.
I'm not a drug addict. I'm not dealing anything.
I'm just juggling. So I got balls that aren't
filled with stuff. They're called stage balls.
So they were, in my mind, TSA approved.
So I had them in my backpack. I was juggling for the whole
team, for Jacqueline and Patrickand Patrick, because Fresh

(48:15):
Tracks was born from his mind. He's very musical and he was
watching the rhythm of what I was doing and he was almost like
counting out beats to what I wasdoing too.
So that's just how he sees the world.
Interesting. Yeah, I've heard of people like
that. Yeah, it was super fun.
They also had lots of cool swags.
So they had a a postcard that I got here.

(48:37):
They wanted to do something different with their swag.
They had seen all kinds of different goodies at booths, but
they wanted to do something different.
They had air fresheners. Oh perfect, I hope that's pine
scented. I hope so too, I haven't opened
it yet. And then they gave me a pin of
one of the deities from the game, like one of the gods that

(48:57):
you're skiing for. So I thought that looked super.
Cool, so dope. Yeah, and I ended up
recommending this booth to otherpeople.
I think of all the games that I tried on the show floor, Fresh
Tracks was probably my favorite.I didn't get to try a ton of
games, but it was really, reallyfun.

(49:35):
Disco Cola. Let's talk about Altered Alma.
You got to play this. Yeah.
So I didn't even know that it was at AX.
I'm not sure you even knew it was at PAX.
I wasn't aware. I heard people talk about it in
my first few days but I didn't get to play it.
It's one of the ones that cater Blossom sent to me and I was
like, Oh yeah, I know Altered Alma.

(49:55):
I I backed this game, so, you know, amazing disclaimer I've I
backed Altered Alma in its Kickstarter phase, but.
Disco call is the reason it was at PAX.
That well, I mean in the collectivist idea that I helped
fund a small amount of it, sure,yes.
But yeah, it it was really fun. The controls feel great.

(50:18):
I love it is such a beautiful game.
Like the Pixar in this game is incredible and that's exactly
what I expected. And yet I only got like 2
upgrades or something before I Ihad to put the demo down.
But it's another just great Metroidvania platformer so far,

(50:38):
and I'm looking forward to the finished product, and I'm going
to get out of it what I've hopedI would get out of it, I think.
Awesome, I look forward to playing this so much.
It seems like there were tons ofgreat metroidvanias on the show
floor this year. They just all look so good.
Here's something I will say thatbetween the two demos that I did

(50:59):
play, Constance and Altered Alma, I played them on my less
than $200 work laptop and Altered Alma ran perfectly.
Wow. Constance had some like refresh
issues, the screen refresh or whatever.
Yeah, not game breaking or anything, but like alternate
Alma ran perfectly. Altered Alma is optimized.

(51:19):
Super optimized Alma. Let's go.
So we're talking about the Critical Reflex booth
technically here and just wantedto shout out some other things
that were there. There was buckshot roulettes.
I think there was like an in person sort of more immersive
version of buckshot roulette, ormaybe it was VR, I can't
remember exactly, but it was like a different version of

(51:39):
buckshot roulettes. There was Drowned Lake, which I
heard great things about. I also heard so many
overwhelmingly positive things about Tanooki Pawn Summer.
This was many people's game of the show.
I did not get to play this one. It's demo is not currently on
Steam. Maybe hopefully sometime soon.

(52:01):
But those are just some of the games you could find at Critical
Reflex. There's another game I got to
try after PAX East. It was one of those demos that's
just available on Steam and thisgame is out right now.
It's for all of those Vampire Survivors likes fans.
It is called Desktop Survivors 98.

(52:23):
This is another one that was super popular every time I
walked by it. Didn't play it on the show
floor, but played it on my computer the other night.
This is a survivor's like where you move your cursor on screen
and whatever you have on your desktop can be the background of
the game. What?
Yes. So you're going through this

(52:45):
dungeon. This is where it's kind of
different from other survivors likes in other survivors likes.
You're in this endless series ofwaves coming at you and you have
moments where you breathe and where you're not as stressed
out, but you're constantly in the combat.
In this game you have sort of a minesweeper like map.

(53:07):
Everything is inspired by early desktop UI and you are choosing
doors in a dungeon to go through, and some of them will
have encounters with enemies that attack you and you pick up
just like in any survivors, likeweapons that automatically fire.

(53:29):
But they're inspired by desktop computers.
You can fire solitaire cards, There can be chess pieces that
fall from the top of the screen.You can have cursors moving
around your cursor that's damageenemies that they touch.
And this game is so chaotic because you have the freedom to

(53:51):
move your cursor as fast as you can.
That means you can move faster than arguably any other
survivors like. So to counterbalance that, the
enemies that come at you are super freaking fast.
So it's kind of a sensory overload because so many things

(54:12):
are jumping at you. I was moving my cursor
constantly all over the screen anytime I was in a battle.
And then I think if you survive 60 seconds, that room is
cleared. This game is out as of very
recently. It does not cost much on Steam
and I'm looking forward to giving it a shot.

(54:32):
I'll talk about the last game that I got to play on the show
floor at PAX East and it was at the X Seed booth.
And this is when I waited about 2530 minutes to play.
And I'm glad I took the time to wait for it because it is called
The Big Catch and it is a 3D platformer where you use a

(54:53):
fishing rod to navigate the world.
And what I liked about this demois it was just this open level
that was quite big and it just asked you to walk around and
explore and use your fishing rod.
You can use your fishing rod to grapple to things, to swing U to

(55:14):
high places, but you also use itto catch fish.
And when you catch fish, there'sthis really cinematic moment of
reeling it in and then you catchit.
You can do all kinds of maneuvers I didn't expect in
this game. You can wall run and the wall
running is automatic. You just run at a wall and your
character will start wall running.

(55:35):
It's very much like Prince of Persia, The Sands of Time.
I got about 12 minutes to play this demo and they were timing
everybody for this one. So once you reached 12 minutes,
it was time to be done. But it also kind of has a
throwback style. It's not going to look super
modern, but that's part of the appeal of the big catch.
So yeah, you know, I love a 3D platformer, so this is high on

(55:59):
my list to check out later this year.
I think it's to be announced as far as the release date.

(56:27):
And lastly, I want to talk aboutOPT Illusion.
This is the booth of the developer that made While
Waiting, which I have played andreviewed for the show.
So you know about While Waiting.I had a great time playing that
earlier this year. It's one of my favorite games of
2025. Honestly, I don't hear a lot of
people give it that much praise,but I really thought that game

(56:49):
was special. Special with its comedy and also
it's very real depictions of bigmoments in life.
So I got to talk to the chief ofpublishing at OP Delusion, Kimmy
Lee, not only about wall waiting, but about Pick Me.
Pick Me, their new multiplayer dating SIM that has an emphasis

(57:12):
on using an AI large language model for how the game responds
to you. You, you and a friend are
competing to win this date and you're saying things to it.
It is engaging back with you using AI, which I was a little

(57:32):
skeptical about, but Kimmy will go more in depth on this topic
here in this interview. I'm here at the OPT Illusion
booth at PAX East and who am I speaking with?
You're speaking with Kimmy. So I'm managing partner and the
Chief of publishing. I most work is that working on

(57:53):
marketing strategy, publishing strategy and working with
content creator really to focus on marketing the game.
Yeah, I think I worked with you to get a code for the game and I
really appreciated that opportunity.
So thank you very much. Thank you for enjoying the game.
Yes, absolutely. Can you tell us about the booth
that you have at PAX this year? Yeah.

(58:13):
So during the past years we are showing two games.
Of course, the first one is our loving puzzle adventure while
waiting, we just recently launched on February 5th and we
are also showing our upcoming very, very interesting PvP
cross-platform AI speed dating game pick me, pick me.

(58:35):
So this game, we have been underdeveloped over a year and
this is our second time to show publicly.
By collecting the feedback on Tax West, we already progress
the game a lot and we are we arestarting to receive a lot of
positive feedback in how interesting and silly and fun
play with their friends. So we're preparing to launch the

(58:58):
Early Access on May 28th. Well, congratulations.
That's awesome. So this is my first time seeing
pick Me, Pick me. It's a very interesting
combination. It's a very interesting concept.
How did the team come up with this for an idea for a game?
That's a very good question. I have to say that as a Hindi
developer, there is always challenge about how to grow.

(59:21):
After we developed the monkey age and while waiting, the first
monkey age took us four years and while waiting took us 2 1/2
years. And it's a lot of work.
But as a studio, we also want toestablish us as a business which
is sustainable control and we want to incorporate the emerging

(59:42):
technology which is AI. But we as a developer ourselves,
we do not want to replace the human.
The human are still play the keyessential role in the game
design of the art are crafted byour artists and the game design
are designed by our game designer.

(01:00:03):
And we as a designer, we need tothink how we use AI and why we
are using AI. Why if we using AI will make the
game more fun? So then we designed the two
players mode which is you play with your friend and then the AI
suddenly become more sort of like the moderator even you are
trying to play against each other to wring her heart.

(01:00:26):
And from our observation we see player play side by side trying
to figure out what is the character like.
And we also see friends are sub touching each other because they
know your secret. They are not necessary to be
nice all the time. So this is kind of our thinking
and in the framework and problemwe are setting up, they always

(01:00:51):
can pump new answers, fresh conversation, make the player
feel fresh each time and can sort of have engagement and
that's is kind of like experiences we are providing,
which is not necessary. You can provide the same if you
are using traditional dialogue trade.
I could see this being very influential to other indie

(01:01:14):
developers who are looking at AInot only from a technology
standpoint, but also just as a concept for storytelling and
guiding a player. That could be a new area that
you see Indies explore. And I like how you describe AI
as like a middle person in a Co-op experience or in a
multiplayer experience where it's guiding the experience but
it's not totally ruling over everything.

(01:01:38):
I think that's reassuring in a time when a lot of people are
unsure about AI, and maybe people, players and developers
are worried about AI taking the jobs of the important artists.
But here you're leaning into howAI is augmenting the experience,
not absolutely controlling it. That's really great.

(01:01:58):
Can you talk about how you engage with your community?
I know you have a Discord server, so you probably get a
lot of engagement there. You get a lot of player ideas
and feedback there. Can you talk about how you talk
with the community? That's a very good question
because that's the strategy we are trying to focus and even
develop more. Our community is not big but

(01:02:19):
very cozy and everybody come here are really like because
they love the game. It's because they are interested
in the game. There is no like other people in
the Discord. So people speak very like open
and friendly. And we run this cozy community
streaming every Thursday, sometimes just 10 people with

(01:02:41):
our developer. We test our mages to build.
And you know, there was a moment.
It's very impressing. And attached was that there was
one community member. And she said she has to bite her
tongue in order to not laugh because she or he is in Europe.
It's there midnight. You know, she doesn't want to

(01:03:03):
wake up her roommate. That's.
Funny. Oh my gosh, yeah.
Everybody's from all over. I've taken enough of your time,
but I do want to ask you anotherquick question in case you have
an answer to this. Because I've played while
waiting so recently, I'm curiousif you have a favorite level in
while Waiting or a favorite chapter from the game.

(01:03:24):
Oh, my God, That's the hardest question.
I think there are so many. My favorite level.
I think particularly I feel it'svery silly to see Adam waiting
for the bass, waiting for the bathroom.
And it's also, like, interestingto see how he wants to run away

(01:03:45):
from the boss for the boss's amazing presentation.
Yeah. And and also, you know, see him
how he played the books in the classroom trying to kill the
time. And it's kind of funny.
But the touching moment also is at the ending part.
Actually, I'm not sure how many ending you got.

(01:04:07):
There are two endings. There are two endings.
I I think I only got one of the endings so I might have to look
into getting the other one now. So I love those answers though.
I remembered all those moments. Yeah, I'm.
I'm seeing the moment in the forest on the screen where
you're looking for your underpants and you're playing
the minesweeper game. That was iconic.
I love that. Yeah.

(01:04:31):
And I also love how while waiting just goes into some of
those tender emotional moments too.
It really catches you off guard from time to time.
So it's one of my favorite gamesof the year so far.
So thank you for saying that means a lot for as a developer,
I aspire the world to the to ourteam.
Thank you so much. Well, thank you for your time
today. I appreciate it.

(01:04:52):
Yeah. So that was the last interview I
had to share. It was just super cool to talk
to somebody from the team that made a game I played so
recently. So yeah, I recommend while
waiting to everybody I'm interested in pick me.
Pick me. I would need someone to play
with to fully experience it, butit's coming out imminently.

(01:05:14):
By the time this bonus episode is out, you might be able to
play it. That's coming out at the end of
May 2025. South Disco Cola.

(01:05:36):
That was a summary of our experiences playing demos and
talking about PAX East 2025. Any any thoughts, any closing,
parting words from you and what you've observed?
No, I don't think so. I I'm interested in what the
actual like floor looks like since I wasn't there.

(01:05:59):
Just curious about the atmosphere because I've only
been to like 1 convention ever. Yeah, basically.
Yeah, the one where you met David Kay.
Yeah, the one where you met David.
Amazing. Cool.
I will never forget that. Yeah.
So a lot of the indie game booths are small, you know, and
they're side by side. So what's awesome is you can go

(01:06:20):
just door to door in a way. I spent the first day just
walking around. I didn't actually play any demos
the first day, which is probablynot the best strategy.
You know, I the first day on Thursday is one of the least
busy days. So if you want to squeeze in
quantity, that's when you have to start playing games.
But this is my first time at PAXEast.

(01:06:41):
I'm walking around with friends.We're we're taking in the
atmosphere. I was there with a core group of
friends, and some of them had not been to PAX East either,
while others had been. So it was a nice mixture of
newbies and veterans. Yeah.
Walking through there are the big showpiece booths.
There was one for Devolver that was just really that was a

(01:07:05):
landmark where if you wanted to meet with somebody often the the
tendency was to say, OK, meet meat Devolver or I'm two booths
down from Devolver. That was like one that was very
easy to spot. They've got the big neon sign
that it with the red letters Devolver just like blasting you
in the face. Did you meet Volvi?
I didn't. I didn't see Volvi there.

(01:07:25):
There was another one that had avery showy booth called Goblin
Town, really hard driving game and this is where someone had
they. They had this just big truck
like from the game recreated in real life and it was so cool.
People were always crowded around this one too.

(01:07:48):
This is a driving like kind of a3D platformer from what I
understand. Yeah, it looks.
Like just go fast. Go fast as you can go.
Fast and it's goofy. It it this kind of looks like
Psychonauts in a way. Too.
I'm seeing that. So yeah, there were there were
those booths that really caught your eye.

(01:08:08):
Elden Ring Night Rain had a big purple Dome dominating the show
floor too, so that was another landmark.
But yeah, it it's just you can check out a map online how to
see where people were. How much time did you make for
non indie stuff? Well, I didn't play any like AAA

(01:08:30):
games, but I did check out things like board games.
So that's what I would define aslike non indie stuff that I
checked out. So I went over and I saw a Dice
Throne. I went and walked through the
board game section just to see like what could you check out
and play with a friend there? They have tons of board games
just sitting out ready to play. So I looked through that.

(01:08:52):
I went to lots of panels too. There were those kinds of
things. I think 1 stand out panel for me
was the speed running intro to speed running panel that was
hosted by Ash Said Hi which is atwitch streamer that I follow
and really look up to and she had a panel of several

(01:09:14):
speedrunners who do their thing on twitch week in and week out.
There was someone who speedruns Super Mario World.
There was a guy who speedruns games by playing with his feet.
I want to be that guy. It was super interesting and it
was more from the perspective of, hey, this is how you get
started with seed running and this is how you define seed

(01:09:36):
running. The way they defined seed
running was actually really inspirational to me because they
started by talking about Super Mario Brothers World 11 where
you see the timer counting down in the corner.
Everybody's played that game, everybody's played that level.
And in a way, when you see the time counting down your speed

(01:09:58):
running. And so you can define speed
running as just racing a clock. So most gamers have probably
done that and it really opens your mind and makes you feel a
little bit more accepted in the world of speedrunners when you
think of it that way. But yeah, I had a great time.
I'm looking forward to next yearand I wanted to say some thank
you's before we head out today. So I want to thank the core

(01:10:22):
group of friends I was hanging out with and coordinating with
as far as our plans. So we had noms and, and I'm
going to use their online aliases, but we had noms and
Chip dip 18. They were my roommates.
Thank you very much guys for being amazing roommates.
We had Cecily, Castrol, Cater Blossom, and a specific egg.

(01:10:43):
They were always really fun to hang out with.
So that's the core group I was running with.
I got to meet tons of other content creators, people who
host podcast, people who do stuff on YouTube here and there.
I got to meet CG, Danny B from Play Log Podcast, Nick and Will
from the Friday night Gamecast, Matt Stormagen from the Fun and
Games podcast, Dave Jackson fromTales from the Backlog, Joseph

(01:11:06):
Hooper from Cross Play Conversations, Adam Gumbert from
Respawn Aim Fire, and also Dan OMac and they were all super
lovely to talk to. If I missed somebody I am
eternally sorry. It was just so many awesome
people in an awesome week. So that is our recap of PAX East
2025 and the end of this bonus episode of Underplayed.

(01:11:28):
You can find more of our episodes at kzm.org/underplayed
and on common podcast platforms like Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Our music was composed by Jack Rodenberg.
Our art comes from only Mochi. Check out our show notes where
you can find and follow us across social media.
Underplayed is on Blue Sky, Instagram and Threads.
You can also find my links down below, and I stream a variety of

(01:11:50):
indie games on Twitch. And I am at Disco Cola on many
of those platforms as well. And you can catch Underplayed
Podcast on Twitch where we do early premieres of all of our
new episodes. I don't know if we're doing that
for this one because no one is expecting it.
No, this will just drop. I think this will just drop
we'll. Advertise it, baby.

(01:12:10):
And you can catch us playing ourseason 8 Co-op game, which you
might not know yet. I don't know when this is going.
To come out, I don't know the order, I don't know the order.
We'll see. I'll just get this one edited
and pushed out as soon as I. Can.
Yeah. We'll see what happens.
But we know what it is. But you don't, so joke's on you.
Yeah, but you can get, you can find us streaming that at

(01:12:31):
twitch.tv/underplayed. Yeah.
And that looks like it'll be probably like September or?
October So at some point. Keep an eye out.
Follow us and you'll know when it happens.
Until next time, everyone keep on playing.

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