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September 8, 2025 28 mins

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Trapped in a relationship that hurts you, yet you can't seem to leave? The powerful psychology of intermittent validation might explain why. Angela Meyer delves deep into this hidden mechanism behind trauma bonds, unpacking how sporadic affection and approval create addiction-like attachments in our brains.

Discover why intermittent validation is so dangerously effective - it's the same variable reward system used in gambling and slot machines. When someone provides just enough love to keep you hooked but not enough to feel secure, your brain gets caught in a cycle of craving those unpredictable dopamine hits. This episode explains how this neurological trap works, affecting even those from healthy backgrounds, not just those with childhood trauma.

Angela walks you through the telltale signs you're caught in this cycle: obsessing over good moments while excusing bad ones, constantly trying to earn affection, and feeling devastated by withdrawal. She maps out the typical progression from love bombing to devaluation, showing how victims gradually lose their sense of self. Most importantly, she offers concrete steps to break free, including creating distance, rebuilding identity, and practicing nervous system regulation techniques. Angela emphasizes that real love feels safe and consistent, not addictive or chaotic.

Whether you're currently struggling in a toxic relationship or supporting someone who is, this episode provides crucial insights for recognizing and healing from trauma bonds. Share this episode with anyone who needs to understand why leaving harmful relationships feels impossibly difficult despite knowing something is wrong. Check out Angela's guided meditation "Untangling the Bond" to support your healing journey toward genuine, consistent love.

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Website: https://www.undetectednarcissist.com

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Season 4 of the Undetected Narcissist
Podcast.
Your host, angela Meyer, ishere to bring you clarity if you
are stuck in confusion,self-doubt or feel lost, without
a sense of direction.
This podcast is extremelydifferent because Angela comes
from a place of wisdom,compassion and has been able to
forgive the unforgivable.

(00:22):
She's a mental healthprofessional, trauma-informed
human consciousness guide andempowerment strategist.
She knows one can't truly healand recover when one is stuck in
hate, anger and fear.
One must rise above it, findmeaning, understanding,
compassion for oneself and thetoxic people within our lives.

(00:45):
This season is aboutself-empowerment,
self-realizations andtransformation.
There is always a blog postsupporting this information, so
please visitundetectednarcissistcom so get
ready to learn about yourself,others and find a way to truly
live and thrive.

(01:06):
Once again, enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Undetected Narcissist.
Today we will be discussingwhat is Intermediate Validation.
Intermediate Validation is oneof the most essential concepts
to unpack when it comes totrauma bonds, because it
explains why people stay inharmful relationships, even when

(01:33):
they know something feels wrong.
So today let's break it downsimply and clearly so you
listeners feel seen, not judged.
Question what is intermittentvalidation?
Answer it's the hook that keepsyou hoping.

(01:54):
Intermittent validation happenswhen someone gives you love,
attention, affection or approval, but only sometimes and always
unpredictable.
Intermittent reinforcement is apotent and often manipulative
tool for controlling behaviorbecause the brain is wired to

(02:15):
chase the potential reward.
It creates a pattern that lookslike this One they say
something kind, giving youaffection, or they praise you.
You feel high.
It's a dopamine high.
Two then, without warning, theycriticize you, ignore you or

(02:37):
withdraw.
And then three, when you startto pull away or question the
relationship, they suddenly showaffection again, making you
doubt yourself.
This up and down emotionalroller coaster creates addiction
, not connection.
Question how does intermittentvalidation work?

(03:01):
Answer Unpredictable timing,dopamine surge and habit
formation.
Unlike a predictable systemwhere you always know when the
reward will come, intermittentreinforcement delivers reward at
random, irregular intervals.

(03:22):
Therefore, the uncertainty ofthe reward keeps the brain
engaged and the actual receiptof the reward creates a surge of
dopamine.
Dopamine is a neurotransmitterassociated with pleasure and
reward.
This powerful combination ofanticipation and dopamine makes

(03:44):
the behavior more resistant toextinction and more likely to
become a habit yes, a habit.
It takes 28 to 30 days tocreate a new habit pattern, way
of thinking, acting and behavior.
So over time it gets wired intoyour nervous system and brain,

(04:07):
and this can happen to anyone.
It's not just childhood traumabased.
So even if you grew up in aloving and supportive home
environment, you can still fallinto this dangerous trap of
control and manipulation, ofcontrol and manipulation.
Question why is it so powerfuland so dangerous?

(04:28):
Answer your brain cravespatterns.
When love is consistent, itcreates safety.
When love is unpredictable, itcreates obsession.
Psychologically, this is calledthe variable reward system, the
same technique used in gamblingand in slot machines.

(04:52):
You keep pulling the lever,hoping this time you'll win.
When someone gives you justenough love to keep you hooked.
Love to keep you hooked, butnot enough to feel secure it
confuses your nervous system.
You start chasing theirapproval, thinking that if you
try harder they'll go back tohow they were in the beginning.

(05:17):
In relationships, this cycle ofintermittent reward and
punishments create a strong,unhealthy emotional attachment.
This can even lead to abuse,because the victim becomes
conditioned to tolerate negativebehaviors in hopes of receiving
the occasional positiveattention.

(05:39):
This is the trap.
It erodes one's self-esteem andself-worth.
It explains why we can believethat we are not good enough, we
don't matter, we are unlovableor even unworthy of love.
These are all lies anddangerous traps.
Therefore, the unpredictabilityensures the behavior persists

(06:05):
longer than if a reward weregiven every time, because the
subject is constantly motivatedby the hope of a future win.
Can you see the unhealthy habitpattern?
Did you experience somethinglike this?
I did.
It can really mess with yourhead.

(06:25):
Signs are caught in anintermittent validation trap.
You obsess over the goodmoments and excuse the bad.
You never know where you standwith them.
You keep thinking about howgreat they were at first.
You constantly try to earntheir attention or affection.

(06:46):
You feel addicted to theirapproval and devastated by their
rejection.
The truth behind the patternlove that only shows up
sometimes is not real love.
It's emotional manipulation.
It's emotional manipulationeven if it's unconscious.

(07:10):
You are not meant to fight forbread cones.
You are meant to receive lovethat is steady, clear,
consistent, unconditional,supportive and safe.
Now some people are stillconfused about what a trauma
bond is and how they could havefallen into that trap.
I mean, you educated yourselfabout toxic people, but still

(07:31):
keep attracting toxic peopleinto your life.
We can notice this pattern indating, employment and even
friendships in person and online.
Recycle and repeat.
So I want to unpack it briefly.
What is a trauma bond?
A trauma bond is a powerfulemotional attachment formed

(07:52):
through repeated cycles of abuse, neglect and intermittent
validation.
It's common in relationshipswhere one person is highly
manipulative, controlling oremotionally unpredictable and
the other person is empathetic,wounded and craving love due to

(08:14):
unmet childhood needs.
Can you see the two differentpower dynamics?
Trauma bonds don't form becausesomeone is weak.
They are formed because yournervous system gets addicted to
survival patterns that feelfamiliar.
Being a people pleaser was asurvival pattern.
There is no shame in that truth.

(08:36):
Craving to be loved can feellike an open wound and instead
of filling it from within withself-healing and self-care, we
can look for someone to fillthat void.
But there is always a lessonwhen we expect someone to fill
that empty hole.
Therefore, even when we haveempathy and crave to be loved,

(09:01):
if we still have unmet childhoodneeds and wounds.
This unhealthy person is hereto teach us a painful lesson for
the evolution of our soul.
The lesson is to increase yourself-worth and self-confidence,
set healthy boundaries andcultivate self-respect, because

(09:22):
nobody can fill that empty hole.
But you Key traits of traumabonding.
Let's face it.
When someone love bombs you, itfeels great.
When you learn how damaging anddestructive it is to one's
overall well-being, the fakefireworks are now only red

(09:42):
warning signals going off inyour head when you're in the
dark.
Here is the cycle ofidealization and devaluation.
Stage one love bombing.
The toxic and controllingperson will love bomb you with
intense affection, gifts,positive praise and attention.
You soon become the center oftheir world.

(10:05):
You are perfect, their soulmateand they will talk about plans
for your happily ever after lifetogether.
The cycle continues and youconfuse intensity with intimacy.
The drama feels passionate andthe chaos feels magnetic.
You tell yourself this must bereal love.

(10:26):
Look how strong the emotionsare.
But real love feels safe, notaddictive, when it is a friend
or employer.
You are a star.
Your friend wants to doeverything with you and they
make you feel special.
As an employer, you are perfectand they like to show you off,

(10:49):
making you feel valuable andessential to the company.
Stage two devaluing andwithdrawal.
Then they will suddenlywithdraw, leaving many people
feeling confused and puzzled.
They might start to criticizelittle things about you, such as
the way you dress, your workperformance, your eating habits,

(11:10):
your friendships and how youspend your time and your money.
They will start to distance youfrom your friends and family
members.
Late nights at the office,various business meetings or I
need you all to myself withguilt trip attention attempts.
You might have gotten textmessages all the time, little

(11:31):
love notes or gifts, and nowsomething out of the blue
switched.
They are too busy to text you,which makes you feel like they
are ignoring you, and they are.
They might say that you are nowjealous, insecure, need needy
and clingy, projecting their oldbehavior patterns and
insecurities upon you to makeyou question your reality and

(11:53):
emotional stability.
The script has now flipped,leaving you confused and
scratching your head.
You start to apologize moreoften, finding ways to please
and appease them to win theiraffection, approval and
admiration back.
Now you are in the phase whereyou will take small scraps of

(12:15):
attention, validation andappreciation, hoping the
relationship or working statuswill go back to its former glory
.
As this progresses, you feelconfused, desperate, insecure,
jealous, vulnerable, fragile andbegin chasing the highs again.
This mimics thereward-punishment cycle of

(12:40):
childhood trauma.
You make excuses for badbehavior, saying they're just
hurting.
He didn't mean it.
She's been through so muchlately he has a short fuse.
You justify being mistreatedand disrespected because you see
their potential, not theirpatterns.

(13:01):
Impacts often fall for the soulthey sense underneath the pain
and ignore the actual experienceof the relationship.
That's key Stage three.
You lose your sense of self.
During this phase of pureconfusion, one can feel isolated

(13:24):
but still cannot leave.
Maybe the pay is too good toquit, but your boss is highly
toxic and abusive.
Now, every day, you are worriedthat you will screw up or get
fired.
Fired.
Then there is your friend.
Perhaps your friend knows yourdarkest secrets and is
threatened to expose you.
You have distanced yourself,but your friend is the

(13:45):
scorekeeper and you areconstantly reminded of this fact
.
You stop telling friends andfamily members what's really
going on because you'reembarrassed or ashamed to find
yourself in the same situationor facing the same problem
repeatedly.
Over time, you learn to hidethe emotional abuse.

(14:06):
Yet deep down, you're ashamedand afraid.
Shame is a key tool in traumabonding.
It keeps you stuck in silence.
Because you are constantlywalking on eggshells.
Your nervous system iscontinuously dysregulated.
Yes, you're walking oneggshells, waiting for the next

(14:29):
outburst or silent treatment.
Over time, your fight or flightresponses are always activated,
but you call it being in love.
This is a trauma response, notdevotion.
Then you get burnt out.
You lose your sense of self andyou can feel dead inside.

(14:51):
The happy smile on your face isgone and you no longer
recognize yourself.
Everyone around you can sensethat something is off about you.
You have changed, and not in agood way.
Your goals, dreams and opinionshave dimmed.
It's almost like the lightwithin you has dimmed.
It becomes apparent that youare always focused on managing

(15:15):
their emotions instead ofhonoring your own.
You can become hypervigilant,paranoid and prone to
second-guessing yourself, oftenstuck in the survival mode of 3D
consciousness.
Still, you might feel orquestion if you are broken, but
you are not.
You have just been survivingEveryday conversation and red

(15:38):
flags.
Here are some examples of commontrauma bond dynamics in words
and tones, what they might sayyou're too sensitive.
If you didn't act that way Iwouldn't have to get angry.
No one else would put up withyou.
You can't make it in lifewithout me.

(15:59):
You can't survive without myhelp.
You would be nothing without me.
Nobody understands you like Ido.
I thought you were different.
You're just like my ex and lastone.
After all I've done for you.
Now, what you might catchyourself saying, they're not

(16:21):
always like this, he reallydidn't mean it.
She has been really stressed atwork lately.
They just had a rough childhood.
I know they love me deep down.
He'll get over it eventually.
Now how it often feels.
I can't breathe.

(16:42):
I feel dead inside.
Why am I so drained andexhausted all the time?
When was the last time I wasgenuinely happy in this
relationship?
Why do I keep going back?
Why do I keep forgiving them?
What am I doing wrong?

(17:04):
Why can't I make them happyanymore?
What did I do wrong this time?
Why am I so unhappy all thetime?
Why are they so mean to me allthe time?
Maybe I am worthless anddamaged goods.
Maybe I'm the problem.
What is a narcissistic traumabond?

(17:25):
A narcissistic trauma bond isan unhealthy emotional
attachment that develops betweena victim and a narcissist or
other abuser, formed through acycle of abuse and intermittent
positive reinforcement.
This bond creates loyalty anddependency in the victim, making

(17:47):
it difficult to lead therelationship.
Despite the harm caused, thevictim may focus on rare good
moments to justify enduring thefrequent abuse, rationalizing
the relationship's toxicity.
Now I must talk about traumadumping because I have to be

(18:09):
mindful of it.
Why In my line of work I seeand hear it happen.
Often Clients have experiencedtrauma dumping and don't know
what they have experienced untilsomeone, like me, explains it.
Because you can be in a toxicrelationship or work environment
and your abuser jumps all theirpast and present painful daily

(18:30):
drama experiences upon you,forcing you to sit and listen to
their daily problems, whichoverrides your nervous system
and leaves you feeling even moredrained and confused.
What is trauma dumping?
Trauma dumping is a one-sided,non-consensual sharing of

(18:52):
overwhelming or graphictraumatic experiences and heavy
emotional information withsomeone who is not prepared or
equipped to handle it.
Unlike healthy venting, traumadumping doesn't involve seeking
solutions or new perspectivesfrom a 4D framework, but rather

(19:14):
unburdening oneself withoutconsidering the listener's
emotional boundaries, oftenleading to feelings of overwhelm
, discomfort and emotionalexhaustion to the listener.
What the person is doing isdragging you down vibrationally
and energetically into the 3Dframework's lowest point of

(19:39):
guilt and regret, maybe evenshame.
How trauma dumping differs fromventing is that venting is a
healthy, consensual expressionof frustration that can lead to
new perspectives and discoveringhealthy solutions to everyday
problems.
Venting is a form of stressrelief, often involving

(20:03):
supportive conversation.
That is why I say all thesolutions to anyone's daily
issues exist within the 40framework.
Trauma dumping is a one-sidedact that consists of no consent
from the listener and serves tounburden the speaker without any

(20:26):
attempt at mutual support.
It can feel like someone justdumped all their trauma trash
upon you.
Have you ever experienced thisbefore?
I have Signs of trauma dumpingbefore.
I have Signs of trauma dumping.
Oversharing with strangers.
Sharing intense personalstories with people you barely

(20:48):
know, repeatedly sharing thesame story, recounting traumatic
events multiple times withoutallowing for a balanced
conversation.
For a balanced conversation?
Graphic details Providingexcessively explicit or detailed
descriptions of traumaticevents.
This can cause a person toexperience indirect trauma

(21:12):
because the story was so violentand graphic.
Ignoring listeners' boundaries.
Continuing to focus on yourtrauma even if the listener
tries to change the subject orshare their own feelings.
Focusing on the dumpster's need.
Lacking interest in thelistener's perspective or giving

(21:32):
them a chance to share theirown emotions and, lastly,
seeking attention a lack ofself-reflection or a desire to
generate sympathy and attentionrather than process emotions.
Trauma dumping can leavelisteners feeling anxious,

(21:52):
stressed and overwhelmed by theheavy information.
It can damage relationshipsbecause this behavior can be
destructive, leading others tolimit interactions or perceive
the dumper as manipulative.
Without proper processing andsupport, trauma dumping can

(22:13):
actually worsen the adverseeffects of the trauma.
So if you are still healingfrom a trauma bond situation,
please be mindful of theindividuals listening to your
trauma pain story and do yourbest to stop repeating your own
story to everyone and anyone.

(22:33):
Try to distance yourself frompeople who are trauma dumpers.
Your nervous system is friedand you need a break.
You need to heal first beforeyou can heal another person.
And remember you have identityerosion and you are not the best
version of yourself right now.
When your brain has been friedand scrambled by abuse.

(22:55):
You are stuck in your survivalbrain.
Each day can be a struggle toget out of bed and exist.
It takes a lot of energy tobecome grounded, balanced and
centered again.
That is why it is so hard tofind healthy solutions, because
one is stuck feeling hopeless,abandoned, betrayed, abused and

(23:18):
rejected, you can get stuck inthat victim mindset.
Self-care and kindness areessential because every day can
appear to be an uphill battle.
That is why I recommendspeaking to a neutral person
like a therapist, a supportgroup, instead of friends and
families.

(23:39):
When someone can relate to yourpain and suffering, it helps
because at times a friend orfamily member cannot relate to
your pain story.
This can leave you feelingflawed, broken, rejected and
full of shame and guilt.
So how to break a trauma bond?
This part is hard, reallyreally hard, but liberating.

(24:03):
I recommend first discoveringthe obstacles to leaving an
abusive relationship.
It takes individuals sevenattempts to leave an abusive
relationship and one of thesignificant factors is that the
individuals did not factor inany obstacles before leaving.
So be safe and competent whenyou finally walk away.

(24:27):
Here's how healing begins.
1.
Name it without shame.
This is a trauma bond, not love.
I'm not crazy.
I was conditioned without myconsent.
Naming it breaks the spell.
Two create distance, physical oremotional.

(24:49):
Even temporary space helpsregulate your system and
reconnect to reality.
The first two weeks are thehardest.
We can cling to the hope thatthey will change or keep their
promises.
But now it's too late.
Their words do not match theiractions and if they do, it can

(25:09):
be a trap to keep you in therelationship.
Still, create distance so youcan think for yourself and view
the whole picture from anoutside perspective.
If you need to make a nocontact agreement, do it.
Three witnessed by safe people.
Find a therapist, coach orspiritual guide to support you

(25:31):
during this healing journey backhome to yourself.
Being seen and heard clearly bysomeone else helps undo
gaslighting.
Yes, the abuser will do theirbest to gaslight you into
staying by saying you can't livewithout me or you can't survive
life without me.
But that is a lie created outof fear Fear that you will leave

(25:54):
and take back control of yourlife.
If you need a buddy system toprevent you from giving up or
going back, do it.
Pick a trusted friend, familymember or group, like a domestic
violence support person.
Number four rebuild youridentity.
Reclaim your voice, your truth,your joy.

(26:15):
Make yourself a promise to dosomething just for you every day
.
It could be something big orsmall.
Your new location should becomeyour safe haven.
Make it nurturing and a healingspace for your recovery.
5.
Practice nervous systemregulation, breath, work,

(26:37):
movement, sound healing, coldshowers, nature immersion
anything that brings you backhome to your body, do it.
Final thoughts Trauma bondsfeel like love and approval,
because they awaken your mostprofound need to be chosen, seen

(26:58):
, heard, loved and safe.
But healthy love doesn't swingbetween pain and pleasure.
It holds you steady, solid as arock.
Genuine love and approvalnourishes your soul.
It never asks you to abandonyourself to keep it alive.

(27:21):
Remember you are not too muchand you are not hard to love.
You were just taught to reachfor hands that couldn't hold you
or give you what you need.
It was a trick or a trap.
Now it's your turn to hold yourhand and give yourself the soul

(27:43):
medicine you need.
So I've created a guidedmeditation to support anyone who
experienced intermittentvalidation and has been caught
in the web of a trauma-basedrelationship.
The title is Untangling theBond a meditation for releasing
trauma-based love.
Now, if this information speaksto you, sit with it.

(28:06):
It is just information.
You could have been in the darkfor a long time, or maybe you
already saw some of these traitswithin yourself.
There is zero shame or blamehere.
It is simply information thatwill support you or someone you
love and moving forward andtransforming one's life.

(28:27):
So please share it, comment orask me a question.
Just know that you are notalone.
Until next time and love andlight.
Angela Meyer, keri Logan Bye.
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