170. Bonus Episode! Mormon Mafia Part 2 Occult Rejects

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You see something's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
What what's going to happen?

Speaker 3 (00:12):
I think.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
What I'm quiet?

Speaker 4 (00:18):
You welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode, I got
the same people that were with me in parts one.
I got my partner in crime, Lisa, the Occult reject
med scientist joining us. I also got Jin the ninja

(00:39):
from Threshold Saints, and I got jj Vance not the
vice president. If you want to check out all of
their stuff, their links are in the bottom. And the
guest of the hour of the episode today again Heidi, Heidi.
In case there's people who are catching you for the
first time, which if they are highly suggested to go

(01:00):
back to part one. But if you're going to continue
to listen, Heidi, would you like to let everybody know
kind of what your deal is and where they can
find all your work?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Please? You bet? You guys have such better names than me.
I'm Heidi Love. My parents actually named me that. That's
like my real name, and so that's what I go
by because why not, right, I Mean, they were kind
of crazy hippies, so why not keep it? And I
am at the Unfiltered Rise podcast. I'm everywhere podcasts are served.

(01:27):
I do a plethora of things on there, but for
my stuff if you search me out, because you probably
won't see too much of my stuff on my own
channel because that's weird, and you'll just have to look
for my name and my podcast. And I talk a
lot about the Mormon Church because I was one, and
I grew up in it, I was born in it.
My family's pioneer Mormons kind of got a hip piece

(01:48):
done on me for saying Mormon royalty. What I mean
is my family was royalty and then they came here
and they were Mormon, not like Mormon Royalty of the Mormons.
I guess they did need to clarify that. So there's that.
And today we're going to talk about some more of
Howard Hughes and exactly how the Mormon Church always seems

(02:08):
to be everywhere we turn around. Oh yes, thanks so
much for having me.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
On, Ellieah, thank you. No, this is an amazing, amazing story.
And like again, people haven't caught part one, please stuff
from there, you know, but this is definitely going to
be a spider web and from what I'm guessing, probably
at least three to four parts, so yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Paytention it goes, So this one today will be more
circleed around like early days Mayhew, and then we're going
to get into Watergate and then after that, and Watergate's
so important to this whole picture because and also Howard
hughes death, and so when you talk about Howard Hughes' death,

(02:50):
what is like the ramifications afterward? Where does the money go?
Who gets all that it? And it also involves Mormons
because of course it does. So I'm present here in
one second. Let me get this screen ready, And it's
an interesting dive I never expected to go down, So
that's kind of a fun piece of it too, just because.

Speaker 6 (03:11):
You never know where it's going to take you.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
It got weird.

Speaker 6 (03:14):
So that's that's all I know. So I've got that
pulled up. I'm gonna send present.

Speaker 7 (03:23):
I know one thing we discussed last time, Hattie was,
you know, one of the questions you pointed out was
kind of the question mark surrounding whether or not Howard.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Hughes with some sort of spook or CIA operative, you know.

Speaker 7 (03:34):
And I know we discussed the Glomar ship in that
last last podcast, which I think that's a new traffic
because that's.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Where the term glom Lomar response.

Speaker 7 (03:43):
Comes from I belief in regards to freedom of information,
I requests.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right, And I do think it's super interesting that he
was kind of obsessed with Atlantis. And then if you
look at the name and look at where that comes from,
like the project that they called it, and it's an
Atlantean project, and so I just I just think it's
very strange.

Speaker 6 (04:06):
I didn't bring that one with me, but it.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Is definitely a name of Atlantis, and so I just
find it weird that not Glomar, they called it.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
What was the name of that, the actual project? Do
you remember, jj.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Oh, I don't remember the actual project.

Speaker 6 (04:24):
Yes, that's it right there.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, that is an Atlantean term. And so I do
think Howard Hughes was dialed in. I do think he
has the knowledge of like what people would like to
see in the future released and I do think it's
going to play into today and so like our day
and age, not this presentation, although it does.

Speaker 6 (04:47):
And so can you guys see this slide okay for sumacor.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yes, okay, perfect. So a little bit about Hughes and
what happened on our last one is we were kind
of wrapping up with it you know, one of the
agents for the Mayhew kind of organization, which he gets
labeled into the Mormon mafia, and.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
He's not a Mormon, so it's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
But he was a very big spy and he was
excessively dialed in when we talk about hits. Yeah, and
so he was very dirty, completely involved in also the
Bay of Pigs, which is super important, and he does
have Watergate ties as well. So we'll get kind of
talk with him a little bit today, but not as much.

(05:30):
He's going to come up from time to time, but
he's not the main focus because he was kind of
the last time. But the Sumer Corporation was kind of
this thing that they all fought over and it was
funny because Howard Hughes owned it, but he did he
wasn't on his own board, and so it kind of
changes company hands a lot, and Mayhew at one point
was running it and then Gay ends up running it

(05:51):
and he's the Mormon guy, and so it gets interesting.
But Mayhew never goes away. May Hugh's too big to
go away. He's kind of the two big to fail guys.
So Summacoor wanted to They kind of had all of
which Suma is also means the top it means and
he had he had another like a housing development in

(06:13):
the area, kind of the same thing as Mount Olympus,
and it was called something Suma's Something, and I was like,
this is funny, little travel over, but that's just a
little tangent. So Sumacor owned all of his corporations underneath
of it, and he was getting killed in taxes. He
was just desperate to get out from underneath the tax

(06:33):
levies that he had, and he didn't quite know how
to do it. And so this guy Bennett comes into
the picture heavier on this episode, and Bennett we talked
a tiny bit about last time, and there's a book
out and can you still see me a little bit.
I don't know if you can see this book, but
Age of Secrets and Gerald Bellett is the one that

(06:55):
was dictated to But this is John Meyer's diary and
he is a huge player in this case and he
kind of blew he blew the lid off everything on
this and so everybody else kind of kept their secrets
and pay prosecuted him and tried to throw him in
prison for murder. So I think he was just sick
of it. And that's how this whole story kind of

(07:15):
comes out because Bennett never did come clean, not even
during Watergate did he come clean, and so we don't
get this information until super way later on Bennett.

Speaker 6 (07:26):
And Bennett is.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
A principal client at the time of the Watergate scandal,
but he also was completely involved in the whole Howard
Hughes business, in fact being a part of SUMA Corporation
himself at times. He also was a twenty five year
or twenty three year Senate grandson, so his not grandson,

(07:49):
his dad was in the Senate, I believe, and then
he went in the Senate. And then he's also the
grandson of Hebrew J. Grant, and so that's important when
you're talking in profits. And he as an LDS Church
chaplain from nineteen fifty seven to nineteen sixty nine in
the Utah Army National Guard, and he became president of

(08:10):
this Robert Mullen Company, and the Robert Mullen Company is
going to become very important when we get into this
Watergate situation because it's basically a CIA front for companies, okay,
And he's also kind of trying to work for Hughes
under the level to help him get somehow a tax deduction.

Speaker 6 (08:31):
Okay, some way he can stop getting completely.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Raped for taxes, which I mean, come on, I don't
blame him, and people love Bob Bennett and I hate
to talk about him. And this is when he becomes
a senator himself, and I meant, I'm not talking bad
about him, just some of his decisions are interesting. And
that's because honestly, he was in the CIA and nobody knew,
and he couldn't tell the truth. He didn't even tell
the truth later when he's in all the Watergate hearings,

(08:55):
like it doesn't come out for a really long time.
And during that time he served the Army National Guard
as a chaplain. He actually was scouted out and was
a part of the CIA, but nobody knew this, like nobody.
They just thought he might be an asset or something.
And then he becomes integral into Howard Hughes because, like
I said, he takes over PR relations director for the

(09:16):
summacor nineteen seventy four to seventy eight. He also secretly
worked under George Bush for the CIA. So remember George
Bush there, because that's going to be important. And he
used this CIA front company Like I said, it's a
pr agency, especially for guess who. And this is going
to tie to our friend Justin who I missed desperately.

(09:36):
He's great the Mormon Tabnacle Choir. So he also doesn't
have a whole ton of employees. But one of his
employees is super fun guy.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
It's E.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Howard Hunt, right, So once you get Howard Hunt in there,
you're like, Okay, he purchases company, he gives you know
this E Howard Hunt a job. Basically he also gives
Richard Holmes. It's all stuff like it's basically just cia
guys and they're all older at this point and kind
of doing their thing. But at the same time, like

(10:08):
I said, he's trying to everybody is trying to help
Hughes get some sort of tax break. So he's still
helping even though he's doing his thing. Because Mullen Company
is not on its own, it's definitely under Hughes. It's
still kind of owned through that and we still have
May Hugh and he's still putting bugs in everybody's ears

(10:29):
for Hughes. And the thing about Hughes is is he
is literally desperate to do two things in his life.
Number one, get the tax break number two, stop the
Atomic Energy Commission from blowing shit up. Okay, And that's
because you know, Howard Hughes had Jack Parsons work for him.
I don't know if you guys knew that for a time.

(10:52):
Not only Jack Parsons, but he had this guy and
he's great. Let me find this paper that worked for him.
This guy, so he makes this time machine, he says,
and if you look at the symbol JJ, I'm actually
glad you're here today. This was his pamphlet for this
whole nonprofit organization. It's kind of like a religious scientific experiment.

(11:16):
I'm going to find it.

Speaker 7 (11:18):
Is this that this is that location in the in
the California desert like the gravitron.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and his name is Van something.
I gotta find it.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
But for a long time there, yes, and it still
they still go there. They did, I think, tear that down,
but they still go out there and do the whole
like channeling bit. And the funny thing about this guy
is very close with Howard Hughes, and listen to this story.
He's not a Mormon, but he says this, and an

(11:48):
angel came to him. I've heard this story before JJ
has too and told him to stop blowing shit up
basically and make this machine and this was gonna rejuvenate
and like basically time travel people backwards so that they
could be more youthful. And Howard Hughes was kind of
obsessed with stuff like this because he'd been sickly half

(12:09):
of his life. I mean, like now he's kind of
sickly in a more well, I question, self inflicted way,
but we'll just leave it self inflicted for now with.

Speaker 6 (12:18):
His drug habit. But he had a ton of pain.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
He had crashed a lot of times, but even as
a kid, he had had multiple ailments. So you know,
when we talk about this and the integratron, I'm sure
he's one hundred percent listening.

Speaker 6 (12:31):
But basically, you know that Crowley said these.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Bombs kind of open things, and Parsons also talked about this,
and I think they are just trying to shut the door.
And he's like obsessed with this, and that's where John
Meyer comes in. He literally hires John Meyer to petition
and go about following through to the Atomic Energy Commission
to stop this because he's so upset by it. He's

(12:57):
just like it can't continue. These people started church over it.
You can see there insignia is it's strange, and they
all kind of and Hughes paid for that to be done,
all of it.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
Van Tassel there it is, okay.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
So Van Tassel does this for him under all of
this money, and Hughes is just obsessed with that and
the taxing, so the taxing doesn't go away for a
long time.

Speaker 6 (13:22):
And finally he decides, you.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Know what, through Mayhew and through Moulin company, he decides
he's going to petition these people and pay them off, okay.
And when he does this, it causes serious problems. I
dare say it causes more problems for him than the
actual like break in and.

Speaker 6 (13:44):
The whole thing like it.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
It's just blows up in his face. And Don Nixon,
his brother, is a big part of where this started
because originally he takes a quarter million dollar loan from Hughes,
the loan that never had to be paid back, and
this becomes part of the scandal, and then it goes
into a whole nother thing, which we all know with

(14:07):
Watergate that he was also paid more money underneath Hughes
for his re election campaign. But this reelection campaign was
like a shell campaign. There was like no, there was
no proof that it was really happening, or like where
the money really went or nothing about it was. Okay,

(14:28):
a guess who organizes this whole campaign for him? Two guesses?
Because I have name two?

Speaker 5 (14:38):
Anybody want to guess.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
The Mormon? Of course? Pop it right, Nope, it's Bennett.
This time. Bennett is all over this and so Bennett
is the one behind it. And this is where Bennett
gets sketchy because at first people are like, oh, he's
just tangled up in it because domb Howard and he's
just dumb, and you know it's him, and people really

(15:04):
defend him to this day, like I will tell you guys,
he's kind of want to talk about Mormon royalty. He's
way up there. I mean literally, Heber J. Grant's grandson.
And so when we talk about this stuff, it's kind
of it's kind of hard because I know the TV,
you know, true blue Mormons are going to come after
me and say, oh, he was just a nice guy

(15:24):
that got you know, caught up in it because he
owned the company. The company itself was a CIA shell,
so that's not necessarily true.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
So all this.

Speaker 6 (15:32):
Stuff starts to come out.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
You know, Hughes loaned Nixon cash and his family cash
and all this stuff, and it's just not it's not good.

Speaker 6 (15:41):
And then on top of it, we know that there were.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Different factions involved with not only getting Hughes out of town,
which brings in these guys all this dirty money. It
brings in the mob, it brings in like all the
three letter agencies, and it brings in the Bay of Pigs.
And that's why and is quoted saying, I don't think
you want to open this up. This is a like
a whole condensation of his big report that he said,

(16:09):
because the American people don't need to know about that
right now, basically because if they were to find out
exactly what was happening with the Bay of Pigs, it
was going to upset everyone. And he just he was
involved with so many things, and let alone with Hughes's
involvement of the things, it got completely blown out of

(16:32):
the water. It completely devastated the trust of everybody. And
the plumbers, a few of them, I think were it
became Mormons after the fact, is what I read that
they weren't Mormon before, but they became Mormon, and all this.
So what the truth is, I don't know, but I
do know that Mormons are all over this, including Hughes's

(16:54):
exit out to the Bahamas, because Hughes's exit to the Bahamas.

Speaker 6 (16:59):
Is done by a guy named James O. Golden who
is huge.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Up in the CIA and FBI, and he actually ends
up running Inner Pool's. He's big and when we get
into him, he's the one that actually is involved with
this paper right here Resorts International, because that's where they
took Hughes. They took him to a Resorts International hotel
and those all go back to the Mary Paynt company.

(17:26):
So I think when you look at this full picture,
to go to perm index, you have to lay this
ground because you're like, well, who's that and why are
they there?

Speaker 6 (17:34):
And what does that matter to some mobster guy or whatever.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well, everybody's got their hands in the cookie Jart, and
I mean everybody. So the one thing Hughes did after
he gave Nixon all this money was say like, you
need to push through my medical company so that it
can be my shell company for taxes, and he got
it to be done. Nixon did it after the IRS
denied it, and so it all looks bad like that's

(18:00):
I'm pretty sure why he just stepped down and didn't
want to go through with everything. People also started dying
like crazy, And I mean, if I were him, I
definitely wouldn't want to have all those desks put on
my conscience. You know, that's a lot. But other than that, also,
Nixon was a big fan of space and this whole

(18:22):
you know, alien stuff, and there's talk back and forth
about whether or not he put a time capsule in
the White House about alien disclosure, which is curious because
he was extremely close with Trump and he always told
him you should run for president, you'll win and if
you get in there, this is where this time capsule is.
This is just the conspiracy end of it. Of course,

(18:44):
no proof on that, but there is proof that they
were friends. You know, they talked, they were close, and
they definitely knew each other.

Speaker 6 (18:52):
So when you talk about.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
These people all being in bed together, I think it's
funny because the other one that's going to come up
next time, probably unless we run through this as Cone,
and that's Trump dressed like that at Roy Cone's birthday.
And you know, people have postulated different things about their
reputation together.

Speaker 6 (19:13):
I don't know, but I.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Do know this. They were very close, Okay, close enough
it shouldn't have ended how it did. And when you
look at the pictures of them speaking together in different things,
you go, hm, well, Trump comes up, and I bring
up Roy because Resorts International runs straight into Donald Trump.
He ends up running it for a time. Actually, they

(19:36):
had a big fight over who was going to get
the power of it, and so he ends up taking
it for a time. And it was, you know, completely
engulfed with the organized crime. And when you look at that,
you know, I know people want to say, oh, Trump's
a good guy.

Speaker 6 (19:53):
I don't know. I'm watching for the fruits of his labor.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
I'm not going to diss on him, but I'm just
saying you have to look at the full picture when
we're looking at all of this. And then also, how
obsessed is Trump with space stuff? You know, he's got
Elon in there. We're talking. Then we get into weird
speculation on that with you know, the whole warnavon Braun book.
And this is the picture I told you guys about

(20:16):
last time with Werner von Braun in Mormon theological films.
And I don't think these things are accidents. You know,
I think that you know, what people have said and
talked about is when this whole business came out with Aliens,
you know, they wanted to guard that secret, and JFK

(20:38):
wanted to work with the Russians and they had just
had the war. And this picture here shows they're kind
of together, Werner von Braun and JFK. And he dies
two weeks after this is taken. And I find that
super interesting, knowing that the Germans and the Russians have
a very contentious relationship at this point. I don't think

(21:02):
they want to share anything with the people that help
them lose the war.

Speaker 6 (21:06):
So it gets into some weird weeds.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
And you know, we've taken all the Operation paper Clip
people and put them to work, which you know, if
you've looked at anything from Utah, and you know anything
about Thia Call and different Hormon space projects, you know
that there was probably something that came here and let
alone the relationship enough for Werner von Braun to be
invited into a movie that no one else was in

(21:30):
except for Mormons. I find it super curious. And so
is this odd. It's all together odd, and when you
put it all together with the hearings and Hunt and
even their background. You know, if you get into Hunt's background,
do you guys know about his background? Like back back
before Watergate.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Like Oss Days or Cia Days.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, so Cia Days. He was the guy that was basically,
you know, down to help with like any of the
UFO recoveries. He was on that whole situation, and he
worked with Banister, but he also worked with Banister, worked
with Mayhew for ten years out of the Chicago offices
when he was with the FBI. So all these people

(22:17):
are like lengthly not just like, oh I met him
once at a dinner. You know, these are big relationships.
And all of this kind of goes together with the Mormons,
and I'm like, why are they always there? There's always
a person that pops up that just happens to be

(22:38):
associated with the church.

Speaker 6 (22:41):
And then when you get into the Watergate.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Stuff with the Bay of Pigs, you have to go
to Bush and the whole thing with Howard Hughes and
Zapota Oil. They were using his island and the Bushes
rented it to for their drilling operation, which wasn't it
wasn't a drilling operation, but that island in its elf
is considered to be possibly one of Atlantis Islands, and

(23:04):
so maybe they were drilling for something. I don't think
it had to do with oil. But they were also
training the Bay of Pigs people there, and this is
a little picture of just their training and what they
were doing. It was all an anti Castro training. And
this is the name of the k Seal is the island.

(23:25):
And I was like, that's, you know, all all owned
by Howard Hughes.

Speaker 6 (23:30):
He just leased it to the Bushes. And so even two.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Of the ships involved in the Bay of Pigs, one
of them was named the Barbara. So Bush is all
over this on top of it, and I think that
you know, he, you know, Bush ties here soon. He's
got some major ties with Permandex and Demorn Shield and

(23:55):
so all of this makes sense when you put it
in a big whirlwind, I guess, because like you said,
it's a spider. It's not gonna it's not going to stop.
I mean it just like I almost have to organizing
it in my mind to like present. It is so
difficult because you're like, Okay, which part do you want

(24:15):
to say first? Which part do you talk about? You
know the fact that you want to talk about that
Trump named one of his casino hotels the Atlantis during
the time he owned this stuff, Like, I think somebody
knows something. And when you go down that road, you
know about his uncle John and he's supposedly the protege

(24:36):
to vanover Bush, who not related to the regular President Bush,
but van over Bush is who's protege tesla.

Speaker 6 (24:45):
And this goes to aliens, and I just went, You've
got to be kidding.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Me, because I've never really I mean, I was like, yeah, whatever,
I mean, there's realms. Sure, you know, there's things out there.
I'm not want to like, just let it go. But
also so like when you look at this stuff, you go, Okay,
well what do they all know? Right? And then you
go back to that weird story about the alien visiting

(25:10):
that guy? And then you go, what does the Mormon
Church know.

Speaker 6 (25:16):
The key?

Speaker 1 (25:17):
And once again we get back to the keys, and
I'll tell you you know Howard Hughes trusted them an
awful lot, even though they did him dirty towards the end.
And then you get into what happened at the end.
And this gets back to the gaze and not gay people,

(25:37):
the gays last name and one more picture before I
move forward. This is a fun one of Nixon with
Prescott Bush and who Jack Ruby. Yeah, this is just
you know when you said it was a spider web,
it just explodes and it goes clear into today to Sorry,

(26:00):
I would just want to say no, no, please interrupt
because I can't.

Speaker 8 (26:03):
See before you get too far. I just it's a
very It's an open ended question. It can be Heidi, JJ, Lisa, anyone. Uh,
but I don't quite understand why his financials were in
such turmoil if he if he also was in charge
of several CIA fronts, is what you're saying. If I understand,

(26:25):
and so shouldn't the financial management be more? You know,
even though that those are like a lot of black
book stuff, like they usually are good book keepers from
like all the work that Nick and JJ have done
and like showing that kind of like organized crime, Like.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Usually they're pretty good at books.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Are you talking about Hughes or yes, Hughes Hughes Okay,
so you're be CAUs.

Speaker 8 (26:50):
Why couldn't they change the or was there a great
change in the code, and so that's sort of what
contributed to it, Like I I don't I think I'm
maybe historically ignorant.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
No, you're fine. He just had so much money and
he owned so many corporations. By this time, he was
literally banking in the dough like he was bringing in
tons of money. He doesn't have any kids, he doesn't
have a wife really at this point, he doesn't have
a whole ton going out. And he wasn't this big
philanthropist until he opens up the Howard Hughes Medical And

(27:24):
so that's right there, when it becomes a whole different ballgame, right,
And when this happens, it like changes the whole dynamic
of everything because then also he's bankrolling the CIA, just
so you guys know, and there's been lots of proof
like even these little projects like even the Glomar he

(27:44):
bankrolled that, even you know, all these other things he's
bankrolled and bankrolled and bankrolled. Now did he make money
back off them? Sure, he had contracts, you know, exclusively
to them. I in my opinion, I think everybody was
splitting that dough. I don't I I think this was
more mafia than the mafia.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
You know, That's what I was gonna say, Heidi.

Speaker 7 (28:05):
Not only yeah, not only to that point, but then
you have the warring factions for power within that mafia, right,
and it includes the literal mafia, because you just you've
already painting this interesting dynamic of these varying factions of
folks that seem disparate, you know, from from the out,
from the outside looking in, especially when you're talking Permadex.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yes, you know, is.

Speaker 7 (28:25):
The epicenter of kind of as you said, said the
epicenter of this activity.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
You got Joseph.

Speaker 7 (28:29):
Bonano, who's the the Banano crime family, but head of
the head of the all the five families in New
York at the time, Roy Cone, and then CIA guy himself,
Clay Shaw. That's uh, the integral figure in the Garrison investigation.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Absolutely, and we can even go there because I mean,
you know, I I never know how long things are
going to take. But if you know about Permandex, you know,
you know who's on the board, because you just named
some the others are like fascists.

Speaker 6 (28:58):
And like.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
The attorney I didn't bring my notes down for that,
but the attorney for the Savoy family. Like, you're talking
about some really important people and they're bankrolled by other people,
and Permitdex has been said to have bankrolled I'm going
to I'm going to minimize this so I can see
you guys basically bankrolled the assassination hits on not only JFK,

(29:24):
but RFK and MLK.

Speaker 6 (29:26):
All of them.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
And you know, yes, yep. And they tried, They tried
and tried and tried with him. And what permandex stands
for is a permanent index of people. So this is
the hidden meaning permanent index of people to assassinate.

Speaker 6 (29:42):
Whereas they say, it's like a.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Permanent industry development, but it's another show company. It really
isn't anything. But yet here they all come playing again
and and like you mentioned, you know, Riboso, Baby Riboso
comes up in this, Mo comes up in this Like
we're talking about big players when we're talking about these people,

(30:04):
and who do they bump into, you know, Trump Cone,
Colin Ran Coln knows where everybody is buried.

Speaker 6 (30:12):
He went to his grape knowing that, like for sure.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
You know Nixon's close close associate.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Run I'm just going to bring that up.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
He was actually on the island with baby Riboso when
Watergate went down for his like backing story.

Speaker 9 (30:30):
They were actually in the pool together, weren't they. That
he always every time that he would vacation or leave
the White House instead of going to the equivalenta camp David,
he would go down and spend his time with him.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yes, And that's just so strange, like when you look
at it and you're looking at like his ties or
fascist ties or whatever's happening, and then you find you
you like look into it as well with the eyes
open of like, I don't know if you guys have
heard what how he's a said about equal opportunity employment,
but it wasn't it was as good as the Mormons

(31:04):
talking back when Brigham was the president.

Speaker 6 (31:06):
It's not good.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
They're racist, and you're you're sitting here going, okay, is
this their religion still? Like when they say we won
the war but the Nazis never fell. I believe that
I one hundred percent believed that this was just a
division of a power that got too big because they
learned how to tap into stuff, and the stuff I'm

(31:30):
talking about would be a cultic in nature, and there's
so many stories about that that I do think they
were imparted a lot of knowledge. You know, there's tons
of different things that advance during that time frame that
you see the Germans just go and take off, like
literally take off, and Howard Hughes was all about it.

(31:52):
They said they there's a rumor that he had his
own hangar at Area fifty one, and so you know,
he's involved in this up to his eyeballs, and he
certainly says that there are other entities. Whether or not
that freaked him out, I don't know, but I do
know this. He started peeing in jars and holding back
all of his nail He didn't clip his nails, He

(32:14):
didn't do all these weird things. But think about it,
where's your DNA? It sounds ridiculous until you know the answer,
and you go, hmm. Was he just trying to keep
himself from being replicated or something? Or who knows what?
You know, they're making medical advances at the same time
they're doing you know, Howard Hughes medical industry. They are

(32:34):
known for developing crisper technology and all kinds of sketchy stuff.
They're involved with Gates And it doesn't surprise me. Bill
Gates and Microsoft Corporation is the LDS Church's number one
holding right now. And when you talk about people not
being qualified to run the books, you can look at
Elon Musk and Jared Birshall runs his books and he's

(32:56):
not qualified to do any of that, so you're just
it's like, okay, what's going on here, mister tunnel digger
because that's where they met, at the Boring Company.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Sorry, Heidi, I just want to say one thing really quick.

Speaker 8 (33:09):
Is I think with the peeing in bottles and the
here Now you know it's not a way, but honestly,
it makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure it makes
perfect sense to that. You do not you do not
want people to get a hold of your personal effects.
This isn't obviously a thurgical thing, but it's you know,
a we'll call it village sorcery. So yeah, like you

(33:32):
don't want like witchcraft. That's really what that is. It's like,
if you most these personal effects, you can do things
to them. But then also the peing in bottles, although
that sounds the funniest, actually those are called witch bottles
if you make them properly, and you can rebuke magic
done to you. This is the idea if you put

(33:54):
in that. But also certain things usually like broken glass, needles,
blue all that stuff, so.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Dorrying it, yeah, for like property, all kinds of stuff
and here's the thing.

Speaker 6 (34:07):
I when you step back and look.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
At things that sound crazy, especially like Mormons, I'm always like,
that sounds crazy. Joseph Smith said people live on the moon.
And then you find out about different occultic things, or
study theosophy and anthroposophy, and you go, oh, got it,
and then they live on the sun is Brigham Young's

(34:30):
and you're like, huh okay. And so you start learning
about stuff and it sounds crazy on the surface, and
I don't think they want it fixed, because it's better
to sound like that than to explain, oh, we might
be using this for like what you said, you know,
like I mean, if you heard that from a person
that has like think of the most straight laced people ever,

(34:53):
you know, you're not going to like that. As the
normal congregation of people in a church. For sure, they're
going to be pretty upset with that. They're going to
start wondering, like, what we don't do witchcraft stuff? I
heard all that was lies, and then they're going to
go look it up, which is definitely not what the
church wants. The church definitely doesn't want that. And so

(35:16):
I did find.

Speaker 6 (35:17):
My little paperwork on the board.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
And so we've got Lewis Mortimer Bloomfield, and then we've
got Fernick Nause. He's the former Prime minister of Hungary.
I'm assuming everybody knows about who Bloomfield is, probably, but
he's you know, high up in Canada. He's running a
lot of these kind of same schemes. There we've got
Giorgio Mantello, Roy Cone, Joseph Bonano, Jean de Manil, Paul Reagan, Denski,

(35:47):
Count get Terre's de Spatafora, and that is Mussolini's guy.
So I mean you're wondering, like, wow, where did all
these people come from? Ham Selgameyer and he's a banker
in Basel, Carlo de Oh my gosh, uh Analio, I
think Attorney House of Savoy, Max Hegelman, Muner, Shorboggi, Giuseppe Ziagotti,

(36:11):
he's an Italian fascist, florenk florenk h Simon Fay, he's
from Hungary.

Speaker 6 (36:17):
And clay Shaw.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
So why would you have the people that literally are
probably involved in all this go back and be on
multiple commissions to figure things out or like put these
people in power? And why is clay Shaw in with
fascists and people from other countries right where with all

(36:38):
the stuff he knows. So then you're like, oh, wow,
what's happening here? And there's this little there's this little
diagram that I found on Permandex and it starts at
the crown and then it goes down and it goes
to Permandex, which goes to Division five FBI, and then
it goes down in the middle to the World Wildlife
one thousand and one club, which I have to do

(36:59):
an episode on sometime or through this whatever, but it's
huge through this whole situation. And then the other branch
goes to Hondre. And I'm just telling you guys, like
when you look at all this and the companies that
supposedly helped with like funding all this stuff, you go, oh,
this sounds sketchy, right, Why is the monarch involved? Like

(37:21):
why are all these houses of Savoy and like the
monarchy and all these different things involved, Like it doesn't
sound right, you know, And then you you look at it.

Speaker 7 (37:32):
Also to your family before in regards to the how
these things are continuing on to our modern day from
these other examples that continued on as well, even though
Permandex essentially you know, goes away after the scandal. All
of those folks, not the personnel involved, but the groups
and the power centers involved in that, and that board

(37:53):
all uppear again in the Vatican Bank scandal.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Well and not only yeah, not only that, but the
Mormons again through Haliburton. And so when you look at
who's financing, right, So you're looking at all these people
and you're like, oh wow. And also what happens we
run into people that are influencing our next episode r FK. Right,

(38:16):
you run into like who exactly why is Lee Harvey
Oswald interested in any of this? Oh?

Speaker 6 (38:22):
Well, you know, why is Ruth Payne?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Why are they having seances in the woods with asters
and all these weird things? Like they're doing some crazy stuff,
you know, and when you talk about it, it just
sounds insane. But then you look at it and you
look at the backers, right, we get Bell helicopters. Well,
you know they hired Dorenberger, I mean like the Dornberger Like,

(38:52):
I'm like, what is happening? And it's because they had
that knowledge, right, they know all the secrets of all
the things. But they've shut all that down pretty much
unless they want to start WI FI. And then they
did that but other than.

Speaker 7 (39:05):
That, they're not aliens. Yes, nationalism right there.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yes, Well, if we want to get into Mormons and Nazis,
that's a whole So I mean, like think of it.
They're really you know, Jay Rubin Clark. You can look
him up if you guys think I'm not telling the
truth about the Mormons. They are literally the same ideals
as the Nazi regime at that time. And they were

(39:35):
the ones that kind of started the whole genealogy thing
and they helped people like started it to be more mainstream,
we'll say, they started helping with the Nazis. They said, look,
let us into your church records and stuff and will
help you prove if a girl is worthy to date.
And you started to have to hang your three generations

(39:57):
back to go dat a girl to make sure an
this is not my words, this is a quote to
make sure you were not a granddaughter of a Jews.

Speaker 6 (40:08):
That is what they said.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
And so I'm telling you guys like they literally were
in bed with the Nazis. You can look up like
the Olympics. Then you get into the stuff that Justin
talked about, like with them visiting and going to the
Olympics and talking all about it in her journal and everything,
and she's all happy about how wonderful they treated them,
and you're just like whoa. And then Mormon Moroni and

(40:32):
the Swastika by David C. Nelson, that book talks all
about how you know they were hebre J. Grant was
at a banquet there with a big insignia over the table.
We'll just say.

Speaker 6 (40:46):
That because I want to get in trouble.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
I don't know what I can say. And then mission presidents,
you know that we're putting up signs saying no Jews allowed.
Like they were completely on board. They were doing the salute,
they were doing all the things. They were right along
with them, because you know, they were white supremacists pretty
much at that time too. You know, they blame it,
but I.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Think a lot of that is comes from their heritage though, right.

Speaker 7 (41:09):
So, like you're mentioning the alien seance with the DuPonts,
the Asters and gang and the Pains and whatnot. Well,
the Grants, the Bushes, these folks all come from Connecticut
and massachusettsettlements in early early Americas. They so I think
this blue, this quote unquote blue blood lineage of these
folks will manifests things like the Mormon Church.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
It permeates throughout their family tree. The alien.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think they well, you know, if
you talk to you know, anybody that's a Mormon FLDS person,
when you get to the Kingstons, they literally will tell
you that the bloodline of Jesus Christ. And so yeah,
they want and they're inbreeding and making sure they keep
their bloodlines pure. So they take this very seriously. It's

(41:54):
not like it's funny to say it, like ha ha,
but like that's a real thing for these people. And
they're like, well, that's just FLDS. That's not the real
Mormon Church. Where do you think it came from? Came
from the top, you know, it didn't get split off
until the government ties started coming in and they wanted

(42:14):
to have statehood, you know, that's all.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
They were forced. They were forced to make these changes.

Speaker 7 (42:20):
They weren't theological changes, but they were you know, beamed
in from you know, no no.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
And one of the monuments, I can't remember which one
it was that they were building and everybody sent a
stone in to have this monument built. I can't remember
which monument in DC it was. But the Mormons weren't
completely finished with their statehood yet, and they set like
the Masonic eye with the Beehive State, sure, the State

(42:48):
of Deseret. And they're the only ones that like had
anything like that. So that tells you a whole lot
of answers. And it's just funny to me because I'm like, Okay, obviously,
like you said, they're channeling you know, these beings. Well
they say they're the Egyptian deity, Well what is Joseph
Smith completely obsessed with Egypt? He's buying mummies off people,

(43:11):
you know, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but it happened,
you know. And then he's got the Book of Abraham,
which became a huge problem for them, and you know
he's saying his writings are reformed Egyptian. I just think,
you know, he talked to something that told him some things,
and that's really what I feel. But I don't know,

(43:33):
it's too hokey and weird to just make it up.
And then and then.

Speaker 6 (43:37):
Also it correlates with other people's stories.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
And I'm like, oh, well, that's where it gets more credit,
because you're like this person also said they saw this,
and then this person this pond They're all, oh, my gosh.

Speaker 6 (43:50):
They all started religions and so then it gives it,
you know.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
A little bit of clout. But when you're looking into
these things and people always say, well, who cares about
World War to or Permantex or whatever these things are, Well,
they're running things today. They just change their name. Yeah,
they just changed their name, which, you know, it's kind
of frightening knowing that, because you're like, wait, why would

(44:15):
you just quit? Like you fought for all these years
to take over like the whole thing Trump and then
you just like walked away from it one day.

Speaker 6 (44:23):
No, you're just passing the torch.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
You know.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
They're all in bed together and and you're right, it's
a spider that can't be separated. Like the web is
too thick, you know, the spider web is is really intense,
and when you start looking at it.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
You're like, oh wow. And then you bring in like
the aliens, like you said, and when you start bringing that.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
In, I mean, you know, the Nazis were not afraid
to talk about what they were doing. That's just here
that they're weird like that. But over there they'll tell
you all about it. And then when you get into
Tesla and MG twelve. You know who comes up Anister
and who is Banister working with for ten years again Mayhew,

(45:04):
and it goes right back to Howard Hughes. So you're like, Okay,
they obviously and clearly know quite a few things that
they're not going to share or probably can't, you know.
But again, Tesla, you know, I mean people want to say, oh, well,
you know, maybe he didn't really know things. He got

(45:26):
arrested for making an earthquake in New York City, like
arrested he made an earthquake, and people still have a
hard time today like, oh weather modification, you nutjob.

Speaker 6 (45:39):
I'm like, okay, we'll.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Go look it up. I mean he got arrested for it.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Leftower from Island?

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Is that was that?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
What that calls that?

Speaker 1 (45:47):
I think it was. I can't remember the name of it.
I just remember he got arrested for it, and I
thought it was hysterical. But like they try to, you know,
hold people down. Yeah, well, and got in big trouble
for I think it was a dare if I remember correctly,
And even the people that go forward, like I mean,

(46:07):
just for an example, the guy that took Howard Hughes
out to the Bahamas, and basically kidnapped him. And that's
why I say, do I think it was self induced? No,
I think they were drugging him. They found needles in
him post mortem, and they were the big steel needles.

Speaker 6 (46:25):
And back then when you were.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Doing drugs, like, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want those
honk and needles breaking off in your body. He had
multiple of them broken off in his body. I do
psych I know what causes that. It's not a willing participant.
How long ago was this never good? How long ago
was this again?

Speaker 5 (46:43):
What what year was this around like when he died
or or well, I guess what I'm going to get
at is at some point, believe it or not, syringes
are not easy to come by. Oh first, if you
were junking in the sixties, you're struggling.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, yeah, they were like, oh he had nurses. And
I did want to mention another thing about the future.
So in nineteen sixty three, the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter day Saints was miserably failing and almost bankrupt. Okay,
well nineteen sixty two. So up to nineteen sixty three,
they are not doing good, and all of a sudden

(47:19):
they hired this guy from Canada, and I've researched him
a lot. I will not quit researching him till I
find a little more answers. But I find it fascinating
that the year Bennett takes a fall for a whole
bunch of stuff in Watergate, right, and just basically lets
him brate him and doesn't say he's in the CIA,

(47:40):
and he just gets slapped around. Kind of it totally
ruined his reputation for a very long time. All of
a sudden, the Mormon Church does great, and now like
within that year, like all of a sudden, all their
problems are gone. Do I think that's a coincidence? Not really.
You know, people are getting paid off left and right,

(48:01):
And I don't think that he did that for free.
I don't think any of them did it for free.
I mean, they had to have some reason. It's not like.

Speaker 6 (48:09):
They're just loyal to a fault for no reason. I
don't believe that.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Like, if you were in the CIA and they were
coming at you with everything they had in court, you
don't tell that.

Speaker 6 (48:19):
It seems strange, you know, I don't.

Speaker 7 (48:22):
Think an interesting dynamic financially speaking, I don't. I'm not
familiar with that narrative of the sixties. That's seris something
I'm gonna dig into with that Canadian fellow.

Speaker 6 (48:30):
But yeah, his name was Nathan.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Nathan I thought I wrote it down.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Another dynamic while you're looking for that, Heidi.

Speaker 7 (48:39):
One other dynamic I find interesting at the same time
where these Watergate heres are going on and the Mormons
are in the US government or beefing, you know, or
there's some you know, there's some you know, obviously some
disagreements in dynamic there obviously right with whatever's going on.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Oh yeah, situation.

Speaker 7 (48:54):
Oh yeah, he's going to the same stuff with the
US government. That's kind of the peak of their Operation
snow White. There beef for the US government. So another
ancient alien cargo cult at the same time doing these
infiltration and spook activities with the US.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Absolutely absolutely, And then you wonder, like, Okay, I know
for a fact Thomas ed Smanson has ties.

Speaker 6 (49:15):
And if you look at these families, and I know
Justin mentioned this.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
None of their children go to their mission here, Okay,
Like a lot of kids get called on their mission
and go to like Chicago or go to like even
some of them go from Salt Lake to Ogden, which
I mean, it's just not very far apart. Yeah, and
so none of these people though, do They're all international,
all of them, and they're all involved. Like there's always

(49:41):
these little ties to either Yale, Skoll and Bones type stuff,
which we know Bush was, and so these are brothers,
you know, Thomas S.

Speaker 6 (49:50):
Monson shook Bush.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
It was it Bush, Yeah, baby Bush's hand and there's
a picture of it and they're doing a secret handshake
and it's not Masonic. So I definitely think these people
are in a lot higher Like they're all a ton
of the Mormons at that time period are in the
Birch Society. They're in secret societies and they're not supposed

(50:16):
to be. Remember, they didn't change that till I think
it was maybe seven or eight years ago, where you
could actually join a secret society and not go against
the handbook of the Mormon Church. You're not supposed to.
But now they don't care. And Freemason temples and stuff
are popping up more and more. There's like one right
down the street from me that was like an old

(50:37):
apartment complex and the next thing I know, there's a
Freemason flag hanging off the thing. A couple of weeks ago,
and I was like, WHOA, where did that come from?

Speaker 3 (50:45):
You know?

Speaker 1 (50:46):
And so now they can do whatever they want, like
they're not hiding it anymore, you know. And I mean
and not that it's I mean, honestly, it's the same thing.
You know, Mormons and Masons are so close anyway, but
they hit it for a long time, and a lot
of them, like Spencer W. Kimple, I believe it was.
Now don't quote me on this one because I'm not

(51:06):
a huntered. He was one of the ones that said
he was going to miss the Rotary club so much
when he got called to be a prophet, you know.
And and then like you said, we've got all the
people coming in at the same time into government, on
and on and on. When these people are supposed to
not trust the government. These people have been raised up
to what bleed bleed the beast, right JJ, You know,

(51:30):
Bleeding the Beast is something that the FLDS still does.
But the Mormon inc Is a whole different story now.
And I do believe it went mainstream. I think there
were other nods to it, but the most mainstream nod
was when George A. Smith ended up on the time
cover and and it was just like, yep, these are
part of the They're part of the club now, you know.

(51:53):
And they do you know they bought Westminster Abbey. I
just found this out last week Google. Lets you know
that that happened. Yeah, and they kept it quiet. You
can't tell me that they can build down the street
from the Vatican and buy Westminster Abbey at like around
the same timeframe and there's not some change in the Guard.

(52:13):
There's been a change in the Guard.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I agree with you there for sure. I agree with them.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
I think it's money. Yeah. And and and it's like
somebody sent it to me and I was like everything
I find out about the church is like that's not true.
Who I guess it's true. And so it's all over
the place, Like you would think that would be something
they definitely wouldn't sell, right.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Like yeah, right, the important I mean.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
That's just for me. I would be like, okay. And
even the guy that, like I said that stole Howard Hughes,
he gets in. Within a year of Howard Hughes being there,
this guy that took him there becomes Howard Hughes's tool
come company. He's like over all of his stuff and
then all of a sudden, the next thing, you know,

(53:05):
not even six months, he's not even in the Howard
Hills Tool Company for six months, and all of a
sudden he gets pulled back over to Organized Crime Section
of the Justice Department setting up intelligence. I'm like, and
strike teams for this, And I'm like, oh, what better
way to do it? Because you freaking know where everything is.
You've been there, You're right there with him, you know.

(53:26):
And he becomes like a head of Intertail, and you
can't hardly find anything about this guy. You got to
really dig deep. And I'm just like, wow, okay.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
I mean awesome, interesting cares.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Oh he's interesting, James O. Golden and yeah, he becomes
the vice president of Tertail and then after becomes the
Crime Section of Justice Apartment of the Organized Crime and
I'm like, yeah, because you were organized crime. I mean,
it seems funny.

Speaker 6 (54:01):
Your too, looks like, yep, he was all the things.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Man, if you look at his death announcement, it's very interesting.
That's a lot of times where you have to go
to find anything out on these guys because they keep
it on the DL so hard.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
You know, it's like very very he was one that
was hard to find.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Things about, and actually I don't know that I would
have had it not been for old books like this book.

Speaker 6 (54:28):
It's not that old, the Age of Secrets book.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
But there was also another one that was something spies.

Speaker 6 (54:35):
I'll find it because I want to give credit where
credit's due. But it was very.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Interesting to be reading some of these old things and go, wow,
these guys were like there. I don't even know if
there's people like that anymore, Like these people like led
the brigade on things. These people like were out in
the trenches, you know. And it's just wild to me
that that it gets so deep, you know, when you're

(55:01):
talking about all of it, And I guess it shouldn't
be to be honest, like when you step back and go, well, duh, yeah,
I guess, But I guess the altruistic part of you,
especially with a church, you want to believe that that
isn't how things are ran, you know, but apparently not so.

(55:22):
Like I said, Gay goes on to run Howard Hughes
Medical until he dies almost Clarintel two thousand and six,
and that legacy has been left to his family. And
not only that, but his son went on to actually, well,
he worked with Romney at Band and Company.

Speaker 6 (55:41):
And not only did he do that, but I.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Think he kind of got kicked out of the Quorum
of the seventy for doing these little micro loans at
that point that were kind of looked down upon for
desperate situations before they conglomerated and smashed companies. They kind
of would do the little here, let me help you,
and then it was like impossible to meet the needs

(56:05):
of this loan and they would fail, and then they
would just swoop up all the companies. And Bane and
Company was known for this. And they're both Mormon, you
know so, and not just Mormon Quorum of the seventy Mormon,
And so he makes it in and like I said,
normally when you get to be seventy years old you

(56:27):
kind of have a place for life in the Quorum
of the seventy. They don't like release you from your calling.
And they waited till he was seventy and then they
released him. That's a statement like and I don't know
if it was that they were trying to shake him
down for more money because they have a lot of money.
Because his dad was the trustee over that whole thing.

(56:48):
Do you know there's I think it's like I think
they said seventeen billion dollars a year goes to Howard
Hughes Medical Institute. I think was what the pledge is through. Yeah,
it's like been Nah, it's a lot.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
I didn't realize the gay family was associated with Bank Capital.

Speaker 6 (57:05):
Yeah, his son, it's his son.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
I have a.

Speaker 7 (57:08):
Picture that's interesting because that's uh, you know, robniy never
really gets a questioned about those activities too much, you
know a little bit politically speaking back in the day,
but not the right questions, right because that Bank Capital
it got to seed money from George Soros.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yep, and George well because they don't want to get
into so again, like I said, the mole In Company
was the start for the Mormon Tabernacle choir stuff. As
far as they're advertising promos, well, then what happens is
exactly what Justin says. And we get into big comfy
red chairs, right, The big comfy red chairs come with

(57:45):
like the Kushogi family and all these big families. But
where are they linking up and meeting people? They're going
to these concerts that cost like two thousand dollars a chair,
which is nothing for them, you know, and then they're
sat next to these other really important people on the
d L and then they can just have a big
meeting and no one knows. And so that's how that

(58:07):
plays into forward from this situation, going into like the
eighties with Beverly Bruff Campbell and Beverly Bruff Campbell had
so much clout that she literally changed the temple ceremony
through the prophet and that shouldn't be that that was
supposedly given to them from God literally, So if she

(58:32):
has that much poll, I mean, what did she know?

Speaker 3 (58:36):
You know which profit was? This was this Benson Benson.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
With Beverly Bruff.

Speaker 6 (58:44):
It was in the eighties, I think it was.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Those are the two prophets of the eighties, right.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
Yeah, Campbell, Let's see Campbell.

Speaker 7 (58:54):
Let's look, Jeff Benson's always be an interesting character to me
because you know, once again you when we were mentioning
schooling Bones and the blue blood families involved in these
alien seances, the Taps are in that conversation for sure.
Oh yeah, that's the only chief of Supreme Court and
US President and William Hower Taff but found founder of
the Skull and Bones is the taff family as well.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yes, well that's why they came in set it up here, right,
like it's never been done before since, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (59:22):
Isn't Bill Bennett a part of that? Part of that
extension there is the University of Utah Skulling Bones.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
I can't remember if Bennett was, but either way, he's
dialed in ten ways till Tuesday.

Speaker 6 (59:34):
He's in there.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Every single way.

Speaker 7 (59:36):
They would put that there, but not at bg YU though,
right it's a University of Utah though, right.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, it's only at University of Utah, yep, because I
think they didn't want to come across. I mean, think
about it, like you would rather, you would rather it
be a little bit apart from you. You know, if
you're going to have to do dirty deeds, you know,
dirty deeds aren't going to go over as good. You
can't hide as much at b YU, not that they're
not included, and I'm sure they probably profit just as

(01:00:02):
much as anyone, you know, sure.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
You got him? Oh sorry, no, no, no, no, no, it's
totally okay.

Speaker 8 (01:00:12):
I didn't want to like interrupt the flow, but you
had you had brought up this idea of the Blue
Blood seances, and that was my that's where I wanted
to jump in originally, so I apologize for that, but
I know, I think I think it was so interesting
you said that JJ. So first of all, great, that
was a great point. But I also think it makes
a lot of sense to what Heidi said last time

(01:00:33):
about the Martinists, because there's even a link in Canada.
So this obviously goes to my second point, but maybe
in a moment, is that there's a link between the
huge o French, the French Protestants, and the Martinist tradition.
And so as a as a French Canadian strument, as
a we do not like huge os.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
It's like it's kind of like embedded into like your identity.

Speaker 8 (01:00:57):
It's like you're the antithesis of them, kind of like
as a French Catholic, that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Guy, that guy that took over the money for the church,
they said he was a big deal there in Canada
and basically from like one of those wealthy, big deal families.

Speaker 8 (01:01:15):
So that's also really interesting because you were saying, Heidi
about the chartered corporations like the Savoy family and all
these people that are royalty, Well that's that's the majority
of Canada. I mean, it's like eighty two percent is
crown land, so it's in trust in treaty, as they
would say, held by the crown. So who is the crown, Well,

(01:01:36):
the Crown is really the UK. But if you understand
how confederation works, the provinces were confederated at different times,
so certain provinces are actually confederated with a charter from
the Dutch West India Corporation, like Newfoundland. So that is
also interesting because that's where they wrote the Charter of

(01:01:57):
Rights and Freedoms.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
John fun fact on that the first book of Mormon
that was ever translated into a different language was Dutch
because they had so many of them. Oh so connects connects,
And yes, Bob Bennett, was you of you?

Speaker 6 (01:02:14):
So I'm assuming he's stolen bones.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
They keep that pretty on the DL at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Now, well that makes atle sense.

Speaker 8 (01:02:21):
And then you'd also have the international travel the thing
that you said, Heidi, like when they do their missions,
they go, the spooks go away. Well, this is exactly
like how university is as well. Like if you do
certain particular studies, I'm sure everybody knows this area studies
like I study Asia Pacific studies.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
So it's like people like me. I'm not a spook,
but I'm just saying it's area.

Speaker 8 (01:02:46):
Studies, and it's also like Middle Eastern studies, Central Asian languages, Russian,
like those kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Those are the programs and philosophy and like.

Speaker 8 (01:02:57):
So it's always people who go abroad because it's a
perfect cover.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Right, You're just doing your mission.

Speaker 6 (01:03:04):
Yeah, just doing your job. Yeah, I don't think you're wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
I don't think you're wrong the spook. Classic statement of
a spook.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
I'm really not.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
I am not a spook. We were talking Watergate today.

Speaker 8 (01:03:18):
They wanted me, They would have picked me in university.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
That's really the truth that they really wanted me. But
obviously I'm too rebellious.

Speaker 7 (01:03:25):
You bring up a great point with the international missionaries,
and that's kind of I was getting out with Azrataph Benson,
Like there's this there's always been this weird dynamics between
the federal government. Despite their claims of me being at
more and whatnot, there's always this weird dynamic between the two.
Azrataph Benson was the Commerce Secretary for Eisenhower for years, yes,
and later the you know, the the prophet of the

(01:03:46):
church and then his forefather. Also AZRATAF. Benson was a mate.
Was he a president? I don't think he was a president.
Was he was he a No? I think he was
twelve apostles. Maybe I think I think he was.

Speaker 6 (01:03:59):
I think I'm yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:04:01):
But it's weird dynamic because when you're talking international missionaries
and spook activities as a cover, well, Joseph Smith had
dispatched you know, international missionaries back in the eighteen you know,
you know, eighteen forty, so you know that long before
anyone heard the name of CIA or you know, FBI
or any other three letter agency. So I always often
wonder that Mormons kind of invent the American spook game.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Well, it's odd you say that, because I will tell
you guys, within twenty five to forty five miles of
my house, there's Hill Air Force Base, there's the NSA,
there's the FBI, there's the I R S and the CIA.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
I mean, I know, I can't believe they haven't stormed
my house yet. Sometimes I screw with my shit though
it won't work, like my stream yard link won't be there.

Speaker 5 (01:04:50):
And weird, but whatever, that was weird, that is weird.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Yeah, No, And that kind of stuff will happen all
the time. When I did the show with Justin In,
my camera crashed, my laptop crashed.

Speaker 6 (01:05:04):
I went to go get on. I have another computer
right here. That one crashed, but.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
And then my power went out, and I was like,
are you serious right now? I was, and he was laughing.
But then he asked me, are you by yourself? I
was like, yeah, whatever, I've got a big dog. Come
at me, bro if I die doing stuff like this,
so be I don't care.

Speaker 6 (01:05:25):
Speaking of rebellious.

Speaker 8 (01:05:28):
Oh, I wanted to ask. Sorry, I am so non
knowledgeable on Mormons. Yeah, very fine, I'm learning. Just so
the profits, this was a very interesting idea. So do
they receive revelation like every different profit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
So every prophet that it becomes the profit or president
of our church is called a profit seer and revelator,
and I do believe jin Now I think that, Okay,
we're going to get into some weird theosophy anthroposophy which
will be great because you know all this stuff. So
when we're talking about the things that they do in

(01:06:04):
the temple and it piercing the veil, Okay, it's well
known that you know, things can pierce the bell and
usually it's blood, right, like has something to do with that,
but also it can be mimicry. And I do think
these Mormon people, the goyam, the regular people like I
once was, that don't know anything. I didn't even know

(01:06:25):
as a Mason, I even know that. I didn't even
know what a Mason wants. I didn't even know that.
So those people that do all these things and ceremonies,
why would they have people do ceremonies, They don't understand
because they're harnessing that energy, that's why. Yeah, And so
they're taking that and what is the number? Okay, so

(01:06:46):
they're doing the work for the dead. When you go
through the first time, it's for you. Every time subsequently
is for a dead person. So what does necromancy provide
you if it works the gift of sight to see?
And what is the profit a seer and revelator?

Speaker 7 (01:07:08):
I mean, that's a good point in regardless of the
calling though, of the of the of the new.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
Prophet, seer and revelator the president of the church.

Speaker 7 (01:07:16):
I often wonder how that goes down, right, Yeah, because
they have to have some sort of witness, right, I
don't remember, I don't recall all the precise details, but
I do recall there being some sort of witnesses required
in that process. And I've always this is a very ambiguous.
I believe in the exact particulars there the Well was
saying there now right now, it's ritualistic.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Whatever's going on there?

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Right?

Speaker 8 (01:07:39):
Okay, follow up question? Sorry, sorry, Heidie, I'll be sorry. Okay,
So two fall up questions. So uh one, my second
question will depend on the first one. So is there
contention and how the profits have been named?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:07:56):
Yes, okay, So this is an idea in prophecy, just
from my perspective. All someone has to do is change
it so slightly. You know, if you have a son,
if you have a cousin, if you have a brother,
that you would rather them take the place. Especially for Mormons,

(01:08:18):
you all you have to do is say it came
from the higher source. Since you are tapped into the
higher source. That's not a really, that's not really a
it's called we would call that a skillful mistruth.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
So it's not quite a.

Speaker 8 (01:08:31):
Lie, but it is skillful. So it's not the person
that maybe the angel said it should be. If you're
believing it, I don't personally believe in spirits, Like I
believe in them, but I don't take notes from them.
And so yeah, so all you'd have to do is
just change it ever so slightly or change your wording
because a lot of them are lawyers, right, so they

(01:08:52):
understand this idea of like how you can stretch the
truth like very well, like that's kind of the point
of law. So I just think that there's something interesting,
like people could say it was a lie if you
if you misappointed someone, but there's a magical way to
think of it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
That's like you can kind of get around a direct.

Speaker 6 (01:09:13):
Lie, get around the karmik.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Well, I do find it interesting that you bring up
lawyers because Joseph's great great grandpa was an attorney and
he was a statesman, and he also was a part
of the Boston Tea Party and so actually they say
he was the one that organized it. And so these
people come from by Salem, they don't come from where

(01:09:36):
they say they do.

Speaker 6 (01:09:37):
They just don't want that on their on their shoulders, right.

Speaker 7 (01:09:42):
And so yeah, brother cousin and father, you know, passing
on the uh, you know, the the power to you know,
sometimes when you're dealing with the Mormons.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
Sometimes that's the same person your brother, your brother.

Speaker 6 (01:09:56):
Your brother cousin. It's your brother cousin.

Speaker 8 (01:10:01):
Well, this is something interesting because it's like I brought
this up several times. I'm sorry, Nick, is that the
Owen Davies book on grimoires.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
So the really the.

Speaker 8 (01:10:13):
I would say, three quarters of the inquisitions where we
could say probably really it's really about finding source the
publishing of grimoires. That's really what the inquisitions were about,
later as the Jesuits round them. Originally the Dominicans were
doing something you could read as good in the sense
that they were wiping out what they would think of

(01:10:35):
as satanic calls. But later they were really about the publishing,
so you could maybe you could read Salem has also
kind of taking place in this like yes, it's framed
as witches, it's framed as like a you know, Tituba,
who's really interestingly from the Bahamas. She's not really she's

(01:10:55):
probably even she might be Afro indigenous, but she probably not,
so she's probably just fully indigenous from the Bahamas, whatever
that is.

Speaker 6 (01:11:05):
And then well, his.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Grandpa was involved in the inquisition. He was an accuser.
He actually had his sister in law put to death.

Speaker 8 (01:11:14):
So that's interesting even that word the accuser, because that
is something of Mars. Heidi like, it's like, I'm sure
you know this is and Nick also knows. We've been
talking about it. Is this like idea of like what
is the negative sort of formation of like the spheres
of the planets, and the accuser is actually the the

(01:11:37):
klipa of Mars. So that is kind of interesting accusing
someone of doing something specifically that you had yourself have done.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
And what is on their family knife. It's called the
Mars knife because the sigil of Mars is embedded in
their knife.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
So so I'm glad Jenn was here for that one
because I wouldn't have thought about that on my own.
I know that all though separately and not together. So yeah,
And I just think that that was another nod with
Crowley being so fascinated with Joseph Smith that you know,

(01:12:17):
like knows like and I think he recognized a magician
in Joseph Smith, and I think he knew exactly what
was going on. And I think it's funny too, because
if you're gonna be guilty of something, what are you
going to do you're gonna blame another person so vehemently,
like me thinks you protests too much, right, And he's like, no,

(01:12:38):
she's the witch. Yeah, she's the witch.

Speaker 8 (01:12:41):
So yeah, because mass owned all the grimoires, that was
sort of the point. I sorry I missed that about Bowen,
Davey Sink. But the men own the grimoires. So when
they say, oh, it's about the witches, it's about like
the things, that's not really what it's about. It's really
about getting at other people's compot. Maybe it was about
compiled grimoires, because we know a lot of people would

(01:13:03):
make addendums to their especially those like Hugiano or pure.
I've only seen the hugean O versions, so I apologies,
but I assume the Puritan Bibles are similar.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
They would add.

Speaker 8 (01:13:11):
Little notes in the margins, little things like get compiled folks.

Speaker 6 (01:13:17):
They had parchments, they had magical laymen's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
So that completely makes sense to me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Anyway, I can show them if you want, so, yeah, okay,
I will do that. Yeah, because it's very interesting, and
the things that you're saying, I think one hundred percent
play in And this is kind of where I've always
kind of gone with it. Is that it's not for
no reason that this stuff keeps popping up, right, the
canes and the parchments and all this stuff, It's got.

Speaker 6 (01:13:46):
To mean more.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
And that was where I kind of started things, because
his mom is quoted as saying, we don't just sit
around and draw things to the House of the barac
all day and stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (01:13:58):
So I'm just like, no, well, she didn't do it
on accident.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Did you do you see this? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
That is one of the Smith family parchments, one of three.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Same sel as Integratrone there yep.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
And if you notice, and and Jen will probably know this,
when you leave them open. When you are calling down
a certain thing and it doesn't have a seal, that
means you have a working relationship with that spirit. And
so you know, when you're when you're telling it what
to do, you have a seal. But when you're when

(01:14:38):
you've got a working relationship with it, it's a little
bit different. You're not so much commanding. So, uh, I
find it interesting that he was an unlearned farmer.

Speaker 6 (01:14:49):
Don't you know there's one? Let me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
See there's three. H Let me minimize that and find
it on second.

Speaker 7 (01:15:05):
So when you said folk wisdom there Jen that that
kind of you know, that's kind of right where I'm
at with thinking the origins of the Mormons. So well,
yes it has origins in freemasonry. It to me, it
clearly has origins in this Vermont remote Vermonts, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
The Martinism, the Martinism, and it makes me very curious
as I read some books from Peter Lavenda, there is
something called Volk magic so freaking similar, and.

Speaker 8 (01:15:34):
I was like, it's I did Nick JJ and I
did a show on De Laurence Company Heidi and Uh
we talked a little bit about like Dutch pow wow.
Well this is basically Dutch powow magic is like the bombs,
the seals, the ways you use.

Speaker 6 (01:15:52):
Your very solmonic magic.

Speaker 8 (01:15:55):
Yeah, but they include like they'll drawing a couple of
saints maybe they're not saints, is like how Protestant thinks
of it. But it's like as a Catholic looking at it,
that would how that's how it would be.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
But there are actually profits from the Bible, so there.

Speaker 8 (01:16:08):
Is something kind of similar like what you're talking about,
Like there is this kind of like with NJJ, there's
this kind of Northeastern magic that is very America.

Speaker 6 (01:16:17):
I think it's Celtic if I remember correctly.

Speaker 7 (01:16:21):
I'm trying to get the baptisms from the dead, like
that's long been an interest of mine because I've done
baptisms for the dead in the temples numerous times in
my earlier years, so I've long wondered the origins of
this practice. It doesn't seem to be freemasonry, so to
say it's simply freemasonries. It is largely freemasonry, yes, for sure,
there's no doubt about that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
But there's other elements.

Speaker 7 (01:16:40):
They've matched together, and they're in a Krowalley esque the
Lima fashion, mashing these things together.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
It's the combination of that seems to be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Some sort of folk or magic of some regard.

Speaker 6 (01:16:51):
I think it's it's magic mixed with masonry.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
But also like when you look at this, I mean,
you can't miss the kabala involved in here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
You know, yeah, I mean harmonic seals, you can't.

Speaker 8 (01:17:03):
It's it's one to one even when you I'm not
saying that people should do this, but if you buy them,
like the botanic booklet seals that come on like the
vegetable parchment they they have they come in their planetary colors,
so they're not prepared.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
You have to do all the prep yourself.

Speaker 8 (01:17:20):
I've done it probably hundreds of times, but you basically
have to You just have the imprint and then you
have to like consecrate it from scratch. So you could say,
jj that it's folk magic because it's like taken out
of its like original form. Like if you pass down Agrippa, yeah,
you'd be a decent ceremonial magician. You could like figure
out a lot of things with the Three Books, Sure,

(01:17:42):
no problem. But you could also say that this is
part of like that higher knowledge as well, like.

Speaker 6 (01:17:47):
Even though they see that one too, can you see this?

Speaker 10 (01:17:51):
Oh yeah, So I'm saying, Jim, like it seems like
you know the Kabala, I mean obviously you know, have
the influences of free masonry, et cetera, But like, oh,
use other elements, like again the baptism for the dead.

Speaker 7 (01:18:04):
That's always been a weird one to me, Like is
there any other are you familiar gen with the origin
story of where that might come from?

Speaker 8 (01:18:12):
So the Manicheans, the Manicheans actually did this, So I
a lot of weird things come from the Manicheans actually
like the idea of like the pillars not being the
blue and the red is more of the primordial idea.
And then it became the black and the white, right
like the Masonic pillars, the couplistic pillars. But red and

(01:18:34):
blue is really the primordial colors. So but Minikianism really
is this idea of the block and the white. Everything
is like it's either of God or it's anti God.

Speaker 9 (01:18:45):
It's not.

Speaker 8 (01:18:45):
There's no there's no current that's useful going to the
other side. So it's only one. It only goes one way,
you could say. So they're very dualistic. And they also
did this these baptisms of the dead in order to
bring in these people who they thought would just be
forever trapped in the cycle of reincarnation. They thought, oh,

(01:19:06):
we're going to baptize these people and then they can
hear because people who were I guess practitioners and many
Chianism they were called hearers. Like a lot what Heidi says,
like just the goyam the people that they're not worthy
of hearing, of having a voice, they just like they're
just hearing what the elect are saying. And that's even
what they're you know, religious leaders were called the elect,

(01:19:29):
so I think that that has a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
To do with us in it they ever attach them
onto living people, because that's been my question.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
Attached like all these body things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Yeah, I've thought of it, because here's the thing we're looking. Okay,
so multiple things are happening in the temple. You're using
portal mirrors when you're getting married, and you know you're
over an altar.

Speaker 6 (01:19:55):
We don't know what's in that altar.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
We also do typhony and stuff like when we do
the paya ill this this is what we do, and
we do it three times. And I'm just telling you
guys like like this, this is how I got married.

(01:20:18):
So see the marrors facing each other and create the portal,
and as you get married over the altar, you look
into them and say you see it forever and ever.
And then I did I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
That's interesting, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:20:33):
And then.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
You do it every time you do a marriage for somebody, right, right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Which is you know that's very exclusive.

Speaker 7 (01:20:44):
You know you got to be both be the you know,
the the folks getting married to be members, but the
folks attending have to be members too, right, And they
have to get approval.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Correct.

Speaker 6 (01:20:52):
Oh yeah, only my family that recommends could go.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 6 (01:20:56):
You can't just go. There's no way my dad couldn't go.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Even if you're just a member, you still have to
get the temple recommend.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Right, yeah noun Should you look in the mirror? I
say this, yes, let me pull that up again. I
have another one here too. So this is what it creates.
It is a portal. And I truly believe that they
are attaching spirits because think of the spirits that are

(01:21:22):
here that are not legally here. If you believe in
angels mating with women, those people that were created from
that or those beings did not have a spirit sanctioned
by the creator.

Speaker 6 (01:21:36):
They were made illegally.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
And so what does it say in the Bible about
that these things wander after they die looking for a
place to rest. And that's why in you know, when
you talk to Jewish people, they'll say, there's demons everywhere,
and they're all over us all the time, like literally,
like it would suffocate the room if you could see them.

Speaker 6 (01:21:55):
So when you think about it, like.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Are they trapping anything here? Because the pentagram that they
have outside on the temple, let me show you it's
upside down and and then they have a pentacle. I
think the pentacle is right side up if I have
it in this one and so.

Speaker 7 (01:22:15):
Concept as body things for scientology essentially, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
How I feel.

Speaker 6 (01:22:20):
That's what I feel.

Speaker 8 (01:22:22):
Okay, I have a question for Nick about there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Did you notice any colors or thought it was interesting
for any reason?

Speaker 5 (01:22:35):
The well I saw that, I didn't think, you know,
something up with the gold probably and then even then.

Speaker 6 (01:22:42):
The gold is probably knowledge, don't you think.

Speaker 5 (01:22:45):
Like yeah? And then like that looked like there was
like kind of green going.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
Down the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Yeah, I thought so too.

Speaker 5 (01:22:53):
Yeah, that that I found interesting, Like.

Speaker 8 (01:22:56):
It's a it's a diamond because there's a crystals, like
from the andelier there's a crystal illumination and then it's
going into green, so you're coming back down into nutsalk
into the.

Speaker 6 (01:23:07):
Dimon Also, we were.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Given to us by Lucifer in the temple.

Speaker 6 (01:23:14):
I'll show you that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
With figs, Yeah, would be.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
And his sigil is to Venus. One of those sigils
is to Venus. Because I've dissected all of them, and
just for fun, so that you know that guy that
built the Integriton said the aliens he saw were from Venus,
that they came to him in his bedroom at night,
at the foot of his bed, and they were from Venus.

Speaker 8 (01:23:38):
Just so you know, well that makes sense in the
environmental stuff that you were talking about. Because okay, so hypothetically, again,
I don't speak to angels, but if I did, or
angels from any planet anyway, they.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
They're like, don't come at me.

Speaker 5 (01:23:52):
Angels don't come b but they but they angels.

Speaker 8 (01:24:01):
Of Venus would be they would be protecting the fortress
or protecting the garden. So it would be like protecting
the natural world. That would be like a big part
of their function like that. You would not that the
garden is supposed to be pristine in their view. So
we were we are never supposed to like kind of
you know, like tame, like we were not sub dominion

(01:24:22):
over it like that idea from the Bible would be
kind of antithetical to what angels of Venus would think
of the world.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
These are our outfits, but these are this is a
very unclear picture because somebody snuck in and took these
and this is no shit. New name Noah, shout out you,
but new name Noah snuck in with some Google glasses.
This picture shows dark aprons, but they are green. They're
very dark green with fig leaves on them and one
sided robe. Yeah, and then we get there. They're praying

(01:24:54):
in the circle right now, and then they're going to
raise up their hands and say, oh God, hear the
words of my mouth because they changed it, but they
used to say peley l and if you look it up,
it's a bad translation. Because I don't think he was
very good at Hebrew. But anyway, whatever, and so this
is the temple garb that you wear like, it's just

(01:25:15):
what you do. And I remember going and thinking, this
is not where I belong.

Speaker 6 (01:25:22):
This is a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
I was super scared. I was like, and the devil
actually comes in the so Lucifer comes in. This session
takes like two hours, and you're in the Garden of
Eden and you are going through the whole fall, and
everybody has two parts. You get a new name. They

(01:25:45):
give you a new name at the veil, and all
these things happen. But when you're there and Joseph or Joseph,
when Adam gets kicked out of the Garden of Eden,
he's praying and he's sad and he's crying.

Speaker 6 (01:25:57):
Out for God.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
But but God doesn't show up. And who shows up
Lucifer and he says, hey, you better get dressed. Here,
put this on because God's going to see what you did,
so you better put this on. And then everybody stands.
They say please stand, and the men are on one side,
the women are on the other.

Speaker 6 (01:26:18):
And then you get.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Up and put your apron on this little fig leaves
from Lucifer. I was always like, why the hell are
we doing what Lucifer told us to do? What is
happening right now?

Speaker 8 (01:26:27):
Well it makes I mean everything you said makes perfect
sense from a cobla sic len like perfectly you have
the green flashing of Banah. So that's an idea. That's
like how the diamond crystallizes. That's why it comes into
the density that it does. But then it's also the
gardens pristine. That's the idea of the garden. That's why

(01:26:48):
it's dark green because it's self luminous like jade is
another color. Malachite its stones that light cannot pass through,
but because the light is there, right, you're saying that
Lucifer comes to the garden.

Speaker 6 (01:27:01):
Yes, yes, he comes and says put it on. Yeah,
and then you all stand and do it.

Speaker 8 (01:27:07):
Herb above that's a you know, a plant of venus
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
So you said green, and I had to pull up
this stone. You know, Joseph Smith had a lot of stones,
but this was one. This was one of his stones,
and I found that interesting as you said that. That
popped into my head.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
So is that one of his seeing stones that he dies?

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
It was?

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Yeah. They say that he liked this one the best,
but I don't think so. I think there's a white
one that he probably used the most, because the church
refuses to even give anything of it except a rendition,
an artist rendition. I have the artist's rendition of it,
but that's it. Here's the artist transition. I my guess exactly.

(01:27:52):
You know, he knew too much to be a dumb
farm boy like and his family was too prominent like
his family, his brothers at Dartmouth Indian College.

Speaker 6 (01:28:01):
They call it the Dartmouth Indian College piece.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
But you know, I think he had a lot of
access to books because he was sick. You know, what
are you going to bring your brother home that's laid
up with typhoid fever and has all this pushtul and
almost died and you know, all this crap in his leg.
Well how about books? You know.

Speaker 7 (01:28:22):
Yeah, and those towns were very well educated despite being
you know, the mountain folk, very well educated. And you know,
I think there's a lot to be said about some
of the origins of where he learned these things amongst
those towns up there.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
Absolutely, this is a rendition from a neighbor's testimony in
the Glass Looker case. This is a drawing of what
he described happened when they would come and do treasure digging.

Speaker 6 (01:28:46):
And so you know, there's a lot of things they
leave out.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
Of the story, which are like the practices with Sidney
Rignan in the caves afterward, and the whole bunch of
other sketchy stuff. But they just don't want to go
into it. And I think, you know, what if you're
if you're Mormon and you want to, you know, be
a part of the Mormon Church, and they really wanted
to help you, like they say they do, why do
they have so many ignorant people that don't know anything?

(01:29:10):
Because they are using people. And that is why I'm
pissed off at them. It isn't because they do magic.
I could give a shit less. It's because they do
this kind of stuff and they're harnessing the energy from
it for their self, and that is just that to
me is just diabolical. You know. Well, and then sorry,

(01:29:32):
look at the symbols on the temple their gin.

Speaker 8 (01:29:35):
Yeah yeah, okay, So that sigil that you show of
Joseph Smith's you had a modern like sort of the
modern we'll call it the updated uh Pentacle of Solomon
for it, it's the Pentacle of Jupiter. And interestingly, that
pentacle is used for exactly what you were just talking about.
It's used to cast away spirits, protecting.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Treasure and his whole old table on this because i
this was his Jupiter talisman that he had. They say
it wasn't quite correct and that it possibly led to
his death because instead of prosperity, it was kind of
a curse upon his life because it wasn't quite right
on the table there. But either way, you know, anybody

(01:30:20):
that you know well or you can look up that
is an actual practitioner of magic, if you do not
know exactly what you're doing, like people that want to
just go buy stuff and like, well, I'm just gonna
think you do this today, you best be careful because
I postulate and Gin's here today and this isn't what
we were talking about. But if you guys are good
with it, I'll keep talking. I just did a full

(01:30:41):
comparison of Crowley and Joseph Smith, and I think he
did the abermelon. I one hundred percent think he was
looking for HGA. I one hundred percent think he was
calling out to things specifically. And I don't think he
closed anything after if he got it. And that's a
part because once you open, if you don't close, we

(01:31:03):
all know where the Locknest Monster supposedly came from.

Speaker 8 (01:31:06):
Right, Well, this is interesting alty what you're saying, very
very interesting to me. And I told you last time
that this idea of him as a magician, like as
a full fledge, like he's all the way, he's thirty three,
he's thirty four, Okay, But what you're saying is like
maybe he didn't know. It's like what JJ is saying,

(01:31:27):
there's like the folk tradition, so it's like folk Martinism.
And I'm not saying that it's a sortative, but maybe
there's not like a long line attrition where the Catholics,
they have Rosicrucianism. So it's a lot of the priests understand,
a lot of the you know, people who are running
the institution understands. But like with these kind of like
rebel hugeon O's and Puritans, there's no one, there's no

(01:31:49):
like great faction running the show. So some of the
knowledge may have gotten like a little bit lost, a
little forgotten.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:31:58):
Yeah, I think that he was well and if.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
Possibly, which I think Lumen Walters was the one that
helped him. But also you have to remember when he
got sick, and JJ can attest to this. When he
got sick, he has always been It's always been said
like and then he just laid up in the kitchen
with his mom, Right, JJ, have you ever heard anything
else different, Like basically he's laying around the house. You're

(01:32:21):
getting better. No, they sent him to Salem. No, they
sent him to his uncle Jesse. And I found this
way later, and I was like I never heard this before.
What And so he's at that age, that critical learning
age where maybe Jesse taught him some things and then
Lumen Walters comes and teaches him some things, and maybe

(01:32:42):
none of it was complete because but he knew enough
to become a master mason in a day.

Speaker 6 (01:32:47):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
So he did have enough knowledge to pass a lot
of tests. And in fact, one of the angels that
I showed you in the schigul that was black and white,
is actually a Freemason password, so it was Jebulon. So
I'm like, Okay, he knew enough to know how to
get in trouble.

Speaker 3 (01:33:08):
I think, no, fourteen years old when he went up
to Salem. Was that about fourteen? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
But then no, I think he was quite younger. I
think he might have been around ten or eleven, because
that was when his leg his leg was early in life.
I think he was maybe seven or eight, and it
lasted for a long time. They were going to cut
his leg off, but instead they drained it and it
was pushing out the bone shards. It was like this
horrible situation, and we all know that, like if you

(01:33:35):
have a life or death, you know thing, then that
can also play into it where he would be more open,
you know, at that point. So I mean some good points.

Speaker 7 (01:33:46):
I've always wondered that story's accurate as far as it
was a miraculous tale of your recovery, because he's some
sort of profit and overlord type of deal, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:54):
But there's obviously something got in there for.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
Something going there, right, Maybe that's a cover story, who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
Or something got in him when he was down, like
and helped him live the rest of his days. I
always wonder about that, like what if you say you'll
do anything literally or was it his parents?

Speaker 6 (01:34:10):
You know, did he you know?

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Who knows? But I do know this.

Speaker 6 (01:34:14):
It gets very thousands.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
Long around that time, you know, not testin from north
to south.

Speaker 7 (01:34:19):
I mean, there's a lot of this kind of ceremonial
magic cold activity going on.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Yes, he wasn't the only one. I think he just
got killed because he had a fat mouth. So the
King fall at the King fallt sermon. If you look
it up, it's very cabbalistic in nature. It's also talking
about plural deities. And I think they were just done
with his shit. Like I think they were like, okay, look,
first you're banging everybody's wives. Now you're doing this like

(01:34:47):
that's enough. You know. That's my thoughts. He did marry
William Morgan's X well not ex wife widow. I suppose
that many many point their finger that Joseph had a
part to do with his disappearance.

Speaker 7 (01:34:59):
So politically speaking, he was kind of the Donald Trump
of his day, involved in numerous industries. In fact, he
had the second largest militia in America, just slightly smaller
than the US Army. You know, the governor of Illinois
was not going to mess with them. The Mormon militia
was far far larger than the Illinois militia. So very powerful, dude,
bank banking guy politics. So he's kind of the you know,

(01:35:22):
the Donald Trump of his day, if you will.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
So, yeah, he ran the president. Yeah, yeah, I think
it's not wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
Yeah, that's what I think may have got him killed. Right.

Speaker 7 (01:35:34):
There was the I'm going to run for president, make
this entire country. Mormon came back boy.

Speaker 6 (01:35:40):
And then you know about the Quorum of the fifty two.

Speaker 1 (01:35:42):
There's that hidden fifty inside where they don't ever talk
about it. And I think that he knew enough to
set it up really well because they're like, oh, he
never read the Book of Knock. And then he made
something like the whole communistic community that he was making,
where you give every thing. It was like the Order
of I think he called it the Order of Enoch

(01:36:04):
and so I'm like, well, you guys are dumb, like
hide your history better if you don't want anybody to
find it check it out.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Weird.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
But anyways, with that we will wait for the rest
of this fun stuff with RFK and how it plugs
in there, it's quite more fun. I think Jen will
like it better because we're going to talk more about
the seance, although we did talk about aliens from Venus,
so that was pretty fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
I love all of it.

Speaker 8 (01:36:28):
I love the Nixon stuff I have, like I kind
of I interpret it like they're all magicians, they're all mafia.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Like I don't really pick sides.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
Ye cool.

Speaker 6 (01:36:38):
Oh, I think I found when I was looking, and
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
I don't want to misspeak, but I will say I'm
ninety eight percent sure Joseph Smith is related to the
Rockefellers to be continued Next time on that, I'll bring
some actual proof because then that makes one hundred percent
since what Jin just said, like, yeah, it's one big circle.

Speaker 7 (01:37:00):
Bring some proof of how his grandson married Lawrence Washington's
great granddaughter.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
It doesn't surprise me. Yeah, it does not surprise me,
with it being he supposedly arranged the whole Boston tea party.
I didn't know that until I did.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
I was thinking of when you said that exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
Yeah, I never heard that before. You would think as
patriotic as Mormons are, they'd be like and we did that.
Yes right, No, never heard that before. But a Mormon
all my life except for the last what decade, so
weird gets weird.

Speaker 3 (01:37:36):
Never know, it's just super weird.

Speaker 5 (01:37:38):
Yeah, all right, now we're going to wrap it up. Yes,
thank you, thank you, and thank you, Uh Jin and JJ.
Let me let you guys plug your stuff now at
the end of the show. JJ, real quick, let everybody
know where they can find your amazing work, pleasea.

Speaker 7 (01:37:54):
JJ vance Tests of Operation GCD not the vice president.
Also no longer Mormon, but it's deeply fascinating on its
topic due to the first twenty years of my life
being Mormon.

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
Awesome, thanksciate, appreciate the invite, Nick and Heidi great, great,
great talking to you again.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
Awesome to talk. I can't wait till eachat again.

Speaker 5 (01:38:13):
Yeah, no, thank you for both. Thank you for joining
j J I always appreciate it. And Jin the Ninja,
what is up my man? Let everybody know where they
can find your stuff please, sir.

Speaker 8 (01:38:22):
All right, well, thanks Boston and say that fighting me
perpetually on a series of course, JJ, who is I
guess my my new co host on when I'm a Reject?
And then Heidi, I've honestly, I'm like, everything that I've
learned has been quite profound and in a sense I'm
thinking about everything in a different way because of one

(01:38:44):
statement that yes he found his ahha, so you have
an awesome conversation. I think on my show eventually it
will happen and hopefully and if you say yes and yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
So bringing my curly notes.

Speaker 8 (01:39:00):
Interesting because I kind of just look at it like, yeah,
they kind of lie a lot. So for me, I
don't take it like they they can do things maybe, but.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:39:11):
I kind of think that they're you know, tall Tales
is the greatest magicians to a ball, Well.

Speaker 6 (01:39:17):
The Angels always did lie.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
John d even says that, and then even Curley later
after he did the Book of the Law later he
was like, ah, they like to be a wassu asshole.
So with that, I'll quick cussing on your show and
stuff though, Gin you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
Pluged everything, yeah, so you can find me.

Speaker 8 (01:39:38):
Sorry, guys on Twitter, at wucomra Born to the Uko
and g Reborn. Also my show Threshold Saints a Spotify,
Apple and anywhere you get your podcasts, and thank you
guys so much really fun.

Speaker 5 (01:39:50):
Oh yeah, and you're like, we'll be in the bottom
as well. And Heidi finally the guests. Let everybody know
where they can find all your amazing work.

Speaker 6 (01:39:58):
Please, awesome, thank you again. I had a fun time.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
You guys are awesome, and it's always fun to talk
Mormon stuff, especially no gloves it.

Speaker 5 (01:40:05):
Oh yeah, Mormons and Nazis, and so we're going to
get into both. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
It's so good right like, and I am at the
Unfiltered Rise yep, everywhere podcasts are served.

Speaker 6 (01:40:15):
I do have my own website, Unfiltered Rise dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
If you don't want to go to anywhere else, if
you go to YouTube, you'll be sadly disappointed.

Speaker 6 (01:40:22):
They do not like me and do not like my work.

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
I talk too much about weird things, so I get
dinged enough. I am mostly on any other podchaser, so
once a week on YouTube if it wasn't too spicy.

Speaker 5 (01:40:33):
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, So everybody go check out their links.
They're all on the bottom. Thank you all again. I
really do appreciate you coming on. This is an awesome series. Again,
it's a lot of it's a lot of stuff. I
don't know a lot of it, so I'm just like
sitting here like what what the fuck? But thank you.
This is really really interesting and I'm really happy to
have this on on the Occult Rejects. And that is

(01:40:54):
the end of this one and until the next one.
Everybody be well later

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