233. Frazer's Golden Bough: Tabooed Acts

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm awake, are you. I wonder how many miles I've fallen.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
It seems I'll get to the center of the yearth curious,
isn't it?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
And really nothing's quite impossible.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Let's go now to our new episode of The Unfiltered
Rise with me Heighty Love.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome back to my channel.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
We have a quartet today, myself, Austic Heidi Love from
the Unfiltered Rise podcasts, and the lovely producer Jordan Haley.

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Hello.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hello, these these these this quartet does pretty well in
terms of ratings, so I'm excited to see how this
will do. We're going to be talking about chapter nineteen
from The Abridge Golden Bough Tabooed Acts. We're going to
be talking about different magical practices and taboo practices involved

(00:54):
with the interaction with strangers, strange lands, the cover of face,
the eating and drinking of food, leaving the house, and
isolation that many people who are in great positions of
power in these cultures have to endure. Now, before we
get into all of that, I had a very busy
week ousick I did not I hope I don't disappoint

(01:14):
you too much. I frontloaded this one with some of
the residual issues from last week that Jordan raised, and.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
It might be a half hour.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
Forty minutes before we get into the Fragerian material, So
hopefully that's not too upsetting. I'll revert back to the
format that we've been doing in the past month or so,
and then on the other side of that, there might
be some conversation about Avid and the metamorphosis and whatever

(01:48):
happened in twenty twenty. But I don't think we're going
to get to that today. I didn't really have a
chance to refine it as much as I would have liked.
But going from this title card, we don't know if
the I don't know idea, if you had a chance
to check out recent installments, or if either of you
got to watch last time. But we've had this kind

(02:10):
of protracted conversation about the similarities between shamans and outer
space adventurers. I've been calling them galactic shamans. I kind
of like that. I don't there's probably a better way
to talk about this phenomenon, and I wanted to perhaps
look at confirmation and a deeper understanding of that. Here

(02:30):
I have this this COVID shaman. I don't I can't
remember I can't remember where she was from. She was
on the world stage, I think in Europe, and she
did this routine where she spit into her hands and
like she coughed in the face of like health officials,
and it was like, what is going on here during
the middle of the pandemic, and what what it may

(02:51):
have in what galactic shamans may have in common with parrots.
And also this incredible synchronicity that happened on the twenty
fifth anniversary of the moon landing with this comment that
slammed into Jupiter. Heidi is roughly my age. I don't
know if you recall this. It was I could recall

(03:12):
the existential dread. Do you remember when this happened in
nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I think that there's always so much end of the
world nonsense for Utah that it may have bypassed me.
But I do remember the comment situation, not so much Jupiter,
but yes.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
We're gonna We're gonna spiral on that a little bit.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Also, Jordan had some questions about the connection between wh
Auden and the Tavistock Institute. I'm not saying that I
completely exhausted my search, but I came up relatively empty handed,
though I think I understand why she thought there was
some connection between Auden and the Tavistock Institute, and this
led to a research dig into the foundations of Tavistock,

(03:59):
the connections to Freud and Young, and then this incredibly
rare study put forward by the Kettering Institute that I
think we all need to take a look at. At
some point, I tried to find a copy of it
on Amazon. It was like two grand, although it is
on Internet archive. I'm going to talk a little bit

(04:19):
about that today and this continuing conversation about the numinosity
of numbers. Specifically, I wanted to do a little bit
of a closer examination of the numbers five and eleven,
specifically related to Saturn, Saturn, the Saturn five rocket, and
Apollo eleven. So these are some of the loose ends

(04:41):
I wanted to tie up, and hopefully Austik finds them interesting.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Do you think you're going to find any of this interesting, Ostick?

Speaker 6 (04:49):
Yeah, sure, I'm here for the ride.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
I'm right, okay, all right, So I quite enjoy doing
this quote at the beginning. I feel like it's it
sets the stage for some of the ongoing themes in
our podcast. I thought, I figured one of the ladies

(05:11):
should read it because it's a nice a nice break
from my voice.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Heidi or Jordan? Who wants dibbs?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
I I'm far away from where my computer is, so
maybe Jordan.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Because I can't see.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
Sure, I'm just gonna say we should have the guests,
but yeah, I can do it.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
It's it's a little bit of a long quote, but
I think it'll it'll it'll precipitate an interesting conversation about
what motivates this project.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
So this is from C. J.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Young's Modern Man in Search of a Soul's probably the
second or third time that I've gone through it. I
listened to it again on Audible this week. It's it's probably,
in my opinion, one one of his best works in
terms of uh it making his ideas popular to like

(06:01):
a larger audience, but at the same time not compromising
any of its rigor. And I felt like if I
were to recommend a text for someone getting into Carl Jung,
it might be this one, this or maybe The Undiscovered Self.
So I don't know if anybody else on this panel
would agree, but I feel like this might be a

(06:21):
good place for people to start. So, Jordan, if you
wouldn't mind, would you read this passage from page one
thirty seven.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
Of course, I would not recommend starting with a on.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
No, I'm actually listening to that now on ever, and
so I've switched from audible. I hit my fifty hour goal,
so I'm going to try something else now.

Speaker 5 (06:47):
As maybe seen, I attribute a positive value to all
religions and their symbolism. I recognize those figures which I
have met within the dreams and fantasies of my patients.
In their moral teachings, I see efforts that are the
same as or similar to those made by my patients.
When guided by their own insight or inspiration, they seek

(07:11):
the right way of dealing with the forces of the
inner life. Ceremonial, ritual, initiation, rights, and ascetic practices in
all their forms and variations, interest me profoundly, as so
many techniques for bringing about a proper relation to these forces.

(07:34):
I likewise attribute a positive value to biology and to
the empiricism of natural science in general, in which I
see a herculean attempt to understand the human psyche by
approaching it from the outer world. I regard the gnostic
religions as an equally prodigious undertaking in the opposite direction,

(07:55):
as an attempt to draw knowledge of the cosmos from within.
In my picture of the world, there's a vast outer
realm and an equally vast inner realm. Between these two stands,
man facing now one and now the other, and according
to his mood or disposition, taking the one for the

(08:16):
absolute truth by denying or sacrificing the other.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Well done, Thank you very much, Jordan. So the reason
why I included this passage, and there's a lot more
to it than the point that I would make, And
perhaps everybody else on this panel will have something to
say that I will not cover in this when my
particular focus is trying to understand the Apollo missions from
a Union perspective, and I think what's been kind of

(08:46):
difficult about that is the treatment of the missions. Are
we supposed to treat them as historical events? Are we
supposed to treat them as sequences in a dream? Are
we supposed to treat them as a type of a
pictorial religion? And what I think is kind of interesting.

(09:07):
I'm not exactly sure what the answer is there, And
perhaps all three collapse into the same answer. They're all
perhaps maybe it doesn't really matter what we call it
and what they are, or maybe there's a different type
of interpretation depending on the level of interpretation that we're doing.
But the reason why I included this passage is that

(09:30):
Young has really no problem analyzing religious movements through the
archetypal lens, and how he goes about applying that to
Gnosissism or mainline Christianity, I think will be illustrative for.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Us understanding.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Apollo eleven through seventeen and what happened before and what
happened after.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
So it's really the only.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
Point that I'm making there is that this methodology is
properly applied to this movement, So why could we not
do it in this particular scientific, historical tradition that I've
preoccupied myself with. So that's the main thing I wanted
to talk about in regards to this quote.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Did anything jump out to anybody else?

Speaker 7 (10:20):
I'll say one thing that jumped out to me was
this realization that yet again he's having the point home
that consciousness is what makes the world, because if we're
not there to observe the world, you know, it's it's meaningless.
But the way, as soon as we enter the world
with our ideas, we animate the world with possibilities and everything.

(10:42):
So he talks about So that's why I think the
inner world and outer world they hold equal significance, because
without us, that's it's nothing. There is just randomness. Our
presence it actually intensifies those energies that's actually and potentialities
within those objects of the word. No, that's just a

(11:04):
very normal idea, and.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
That might be true, and this might illustrate perhaps a
difference in union interpretation. I mean, the thing for me
as I get deeper into this, and I think Heidi
will probably have something to say about this, and she's
gone so deep into Carl Jung is that the deeper
I go into young, the more irrational erratic aspects of reality.

(11:27):
The seems to be the thing that's primal. And I'm
tempted to think about reality as being entirely psychic and mental,
and that whatever we think is objective and I rationalistic
or a naturalistic perspective is an illusion. So like our dream,
consciousness or the chaotic nature of reality is actually more

(11:50):
primal and relates to the facticity of the world. So
when I say that it may be true that when
we train our consciousness on it, there's activation of this
archetype archetypal mix within us.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
But it almost seems to me that the that.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
The entire world is psychological is and I guess it
raises the interesting question of well, then who's the subject?
And we get into the metaphysical understanding of God for
Young and I think, I think what I what I've
been able to deduce from his works on synchronicity is
that he's a type of panentheist, not a pantheist, but

(12:28):
a panentheist.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
That God is somehow working through the matter.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
And that we that's why we see the archetypal display
there so and and that would potentially relate to the
work that he did with Polly. So I'm not saying
that it's completely meaning. I'm not trying to put down
your perspective, because I think there are a lot of
unions who would share your view. I'm just not I
think it's I think I think that there is a

(12:55):
psychological dimension to matter that is independent of the of
the human individual. But I don't know if Heidi wants
to say something about this.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Sure, I think the importance too here is the fact
that he is delving into this information and talking about
basically energy, right, the production who is harnessing the energy
created by all of us in the psychotherapy and psychoanalysis

(13:24):
and all of the psychiatric pieces. We have to step
back and go, Okay, they know this, and many people
don't because they don't want you to know this, right,
So I think that's super important. And I think as
he falls down the rabbit hole, which this photo ultimately
reminds him, right, it's going deeper, deeper, and of course

(13:46):
he's losing reality. We all feel that way as we
do this, and everyone does.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Look at what happened to Nietzsche.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Look at what happens to all of these people that
go so deep, Tesla. You could go on and on,
but they lose a piece of grounding, I would say often,
and then they start to get freaked out.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
There's no other way to say it. Yeah, I mean
that's an interesting point. Yeah, we have to ground ourselves
for sure.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Well, it seems like one of the ways that Young
grounds himself is that he had the ability to compartmentalize
a lot of these deeper metaphysical questions. Is so much
throughout Young is kind of a mockery and a dismissal
of philosophers in general, despite so much of what Young
is talking about originates from philosophy. I mean, we see

(14:37):
the fingerprints of Kant and Schopenhauer and Nietzsche and somewhat
even argue Hegel throughout all of Young. But at the
same time he has a lot of a cervic things
to say about philosophers in general. I find that interesting
that Young was kind of able to put the brakes
on that, and perhaps he found some sort of grounding

(14:59):
in his practices.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Jordan, you're the one who read this. Have you had
time to process it?

Speaker 5 (15:08):
I had a few thoughts, but kind of building off
of the direction you guys already took it in. It
reminds me too of psychological types, and I could be
misremembering where I'm pulling this from. Right, There's so much,
But my kind of understanding of the cognitive functions, if
you will, is that they all have their place, they

(15:31):
all have their strengths, they all have circumstances and which
they are the ideal tool and the toolbox to deploy
and through the individuation process, like you kind of level
up the ones that are not necessarily your comfort zone.
And I think that applies here, like taking it from

(15:51):
the biology, lens can yield value, Taking it from the philosophy,
lens can yield value. So you're talking about this compartmentalization, Luke.
I think it also kind of maps over nicely with
his theory of the of the psyche or not the
personality more the personality I might be you know, I'm not.
I do not have a PhD in this, so I

(16:11):
could certainly be conflating terms. That's where I wanted to
take it.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Find it interesting also that Steiner in anthroposophy forces people
to do other things other.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Than just study.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
He he's very clear about this and including.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
You know, dance and like you're with me and all
this stuff.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
And there's a reason because he knows you can, you know,
get that pressure too tight on the pot.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
So I've not done gone deep into Steiner, but I
encountered some material earlier this week that he was like
fully aware of the shadow side of every human but
was anti Young's perspective that we need to integrate the shadow.
I don't know if you can speak to that at all,
and says you know much more about Steiner.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Than and that he I think young would have thought
he was one sided.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Because of that, Steiner definitely had, you know, he's very
I mean he left theosophy for the whole reasoning that
he was bucking against the system of other people's thoughts
towards that, and he was much more in the Christian view,
though a lot of his workings are not Christian. There,
I mean it gets weird, so we look at it

(17:23):
and say, you know, take it with a grain of salt.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
He's trying to stay in his lane.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Basically as a quote unquote Christian, and that's why he
made you know anthroposophy instead of you know, the all knowing,
the knowing of man. And I mean I've only I'm
no PhD on any of this. I just like to
study some stuff. And Steiner was one, you know, especially
with the apes sphere. I do think he touches on

(17:48):
things just a little bit here and there about darkness,
but he has a more ability to blame it on
things that exist around us.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
So interesting. We'll have to do a deep dialogue though
one day.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Yes, all right, so let's go to the next slide,
because we could just talk it forever about this quote.
I wanted to talk a little bit about shamanic astronauts. Okay,
so we'll just go round to these pictures. So in
previous installments we looked at here next to Neil on

(18:23):
the twenty fifth anniversary is a is a photo from
Man and his Symbols of a shaman dressed up as
a bird. And it seemed whether it's synchronous, intentional, or
or you know, this is just the alchemical churning of reality,
it seems like something is repeating this process all over again.

(18:44):
And I pointed out through our examination of the the
bunny imagery associated with the astronauts, the snoopy imagery that
is kind of like almost like a dog totem or whatever,
that was associated with the Apollo astronauts, that there was
something kind of shamanic to what they were doing, going
to this upper realm, bringing back knowledge, having these static experiences,

(19:06):
talking about the unification of with mankind and God himself.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
There's a lot.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
There's a lot one could say about the shamanic dimension
of outer space travel. And I sent this video to
our group chat what's his name?

Speaker 3 (19:24):
What's Rob? What's his name?

Speaker 4 (19:26):
He was doing the mystery from collative learning, this guy.
He did a great little like thirteen minute video on
the meaning of the eyeball in two thousand and one,
and it prompted my memory of the of the helmets.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
That Kubrick used in two thousand and one.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Where it's very clear that he created some sort of
analystic headdress for the astronauts. You can see here they
look like it looks like a bird head or a parrot,
or some individuals say when they're the different color helmets
look like different animals, like the green one was. When

(20:04):
the light reflects off the visor may make one resemble
a crocodile or something to this nature.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
So perhaps Kubrick picked up.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
On the shamanic as the shamanic thread that we've been
talking about here, or maybe this is one of those
just divine coincidences, but something else that prompted me to
think a little bit deeper about this. And I remember
when this happened in ninety four, during the twenty fifth
anniversary of the moon landing. Neil Mike, all the surviving

(20:36):
Apollo eleven astronauts, they were all alive at that time.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
That's redundant for me to say that, but.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
They met, they met, and Bill Clinton gave this big introduction,
and Neil started off this very brief speech and he said,
and it's kind of caused a lot of attention in
certain circles, but he said, thank you, mister Vice President,
mister President, members of Congress, fellow astronauts, ladies and gentlemen.

(21:05):
Wilbert Wright once noted that the only bird that could
talk was the parrot, and he didn't.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Fly very well, So I'll be brief.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
This week, America has been recalling the Apollo program and
reliving the memories of those in which so many of
us here colleagues here in the first Rows were immersed.
Our old astrogeology mentor Gene Shoemaker even called in one
of his comments to mark the occasion with spectacular Jovian
fireworks and reminding us once again of the power and

(21:35):
consequence of celestial extracurricular activities. There's a lot more from
the speech I could pull from. It's about I think
it's about a five minute speech. But the line that
a lot of people get hung up with is like
he's analogizing the astronauts to birds, right, and so that

(21:57):
kind of feeds into this idea that there's something shamanic
going on there, But you could and people kind of
nervously laughed in the audience like they're like, that's kind
of a funny joke. But you could tell they perhaps
didn't really get what he was saying, like what wait,
what are you trying to because if you read it
one way, he's trying. He's saying. He's saying that.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Well because I because I fly.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Well, I'm I'm going to be a bird that doesn't
speak well. So I'm going to be brief, okay, and
the other you know, or you could have a brief
speech because you don't want to speak speak too long.
How about you're not a good flyer. So I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna get into all that, okay, But

(22:42):
I found that to be very interesting that he himself
analogizes he and his fellow astronauts as a bird.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
So but what caught my eye also, I was like,
what is this?

Speaker 4 (22:54):
You know, we've we've for Heidi's podcast and in our
discussion we've talked about Jupiter.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
What what?

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Who is Gene Shoemaker? What are these Jovian fireworks? And
that led to a pretty interesting discovery. So I want
to go to that. But before I do. Are there
any thoughts from the group here on this.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
So birds are frequently used as a metaphor for the
soul in a cold.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yes, yeah they are.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
And then we look at the Masons and we have
owls and pelicans and eagles, and you know, there's a
lot of secret societies associated with these upper echelon people
that get to be in the know. I mean, it
just is what it is. So I wonder if he
had a dual dual nature there in that speech.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, I mean I'm not. I think he is.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
He's got all different sorts of levels that he's speaking on.
It does seem to be masterful. I do not believe
that Neil was publicly amazon. The buzz was Buzz took
a Masonic flag to the moon, so and that was
a pretty big deal.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, yeah, but they're all members of the Alfalfa Club,
and that gets interesting to.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Tie the club. Yeah, what's the Alfalfa Club.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
I know everybody's gonna say it's a dinner club once
a year to celebrate Robert E.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Lee's birthday.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
But there are deeper aspects to this that no one
remembers anymore because the books are gone, and there's one
book that has been downloaded, and one guy does a
lot of exposing on this, and I've actually seen what
he uploaded on the book, and it goes back to
ancient Egypt, as it always does, so and and birds

(24:46):
there as well. I mean we see so many things.
I mean they literally turn them into gods.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
So well, yeah, that's very interesting. I hadn't even thought
about cotage. Yeah, I hadn't thought about looking at like
bird headed gods in Egypt. Was it set that had
a bird head? And isn't set like the Egyptian version
of Apollo can? There's so much to look up here.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
You and I always derail everything.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Sorry, No, you're great. What do you What do you think?

Speaker 6 (25:22):
No?

Speaker 7 (25:22):
I think it's you're reiterating what we had previously uncovered,
and that's wonderful. Another thing that I found out was
I'm kind of I was staring at his helmet for
a long time. I thought, Okay, he's a parrot. It
could also be some kind of a froghead or something
like that. I thought about totem poles or like wearing

(25:43):
a bear skin, if you wear a beer skin on
your head. It seems like he has other eyes on
his head and your face is still visible. So I
thought about, like the astronaut could be wearing a beer
skin or some something of that nature, a skin of
another animal.

Speaker 6 (25:59):
I mean the way he has uh presented in that image.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Bugs are huge when you're relating to.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Entities from other places, they often refer to them as
looking you know, like bugs.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
So yeah, oh, gets weird.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah, I think I think Horace would be the analog
of of Apollo, an Egyptian and I believe. Yeah, so
Horace it was he had a Horace had a falcon head.
I don't know how much Jordan wants to pull up here,

(26:44):
but I'd like to look a little bit more about
the the Alfalfa Club and Horace or raw Jordan, what
did you find in the Alfalfa Club when you pulled
that up?

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (26:58):
I mean I doing this real time. Yeah, I found
this article kind of interesting. I want to come back
to this. They're talking about just for fun, they nominate
a presidential candidate every year. Yeah, lots of interesting names.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, and one of them has met Romney. And not
not only that, but you know, people of color go
to this and they're tearing down statues of Confederacy things.
But yet We're celebrating Robert E. Lee's birthday every year, Okay,
and don't say I did a Mason sign.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
I just did that. Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I got to watch my hand, but never write everything.
But it's true. Like it's it's strange, like Obama's been
all these different people that have been to celebrate this
situation where it's just dinner, okay, whatever.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
Wasn't Robert E.

Speaker 7 (27:54):
Lee some sort of a Confederate general, like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
He was?

Speaker 1 (28:00):
He was.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
And Neil's father was a Mason, a very known Mason,
Neil Armstrong's father. So I doubt that he's not, like
he just hit it better.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Maybe it's so.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah, all right, I mean the most I don't even
know how it's to talk about all this Masonic stuff. Yeah,
I mean, my general feeling about it is the level
of interpretation and interest that I have in it absorbs

(28:47):
whatever was going on at that level, you know. I
The way I'm trying to understand it is that this
is something beyond.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
The organizations of men.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
This is something that is in some sense being orchestrated
by God and the reality itself.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
But that's my personal take. Okay, So I want tying.
I wanted to look a little closer.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
At Gene Shoemaker if we get a slight three sixty one,
if that's okay with everyone, Hm, okay, all right. So
this was endlessly fascinating. So he was talking about the
Jovian fireworks. Okay, So what that is a reference to
is on the twenty fifth anniversary, the exact day of

(29:36):
the Apollo eleven launch, they had this, They had this
comment that was named after Jeene Shoemaker, called Shoemaker Levy nine,
and it streamed across the sky. Supposedly, I have I've
not dug deep enough into this to know like what
could be picked up by Hubble and Galileo and what

(29:57):
could be seen by civilian and terrestrials. But supposedly it
slammed into Jupiter, causing these brown marks I believe on
the southern pole of Jupiter. And it was all very
interesting that it synchronized with the celebration of this great accomplishment.

(30:18):
And this is who Gene Shoemaker is in the top
right hand corner. I think he wanted to be an astronaut,
but because I think he had Addison's disease, it prevented
him from actually walking on the moon. But as I
dug deeper into this, it got more insane. Gene Shoemaker

(30:39):
would eventually get to the Moon, he just wouldn't walk
on it. He is the first and only person to
be buried.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
On the Moon.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
So he died not long I think he died in
nineteen ninety seven, so three years after the twenty twenty
fifth anniversary of the Apollo moon landing. He died on his
way to a conference I believe in Australia in a
car accident. And there is this company, I think it's
called Celestis or something like that, and it special in.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
One of its specialties is.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
To do space funerals and burials, and he was the
very I think he was the very first one they
ever did. And he's the only person.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Buried on the Moon.

Speaker 4 (31:26):
I don't know if I have a lot of like
interesting insight into this, but some other notable people that
have been buried in space are like it's like four
or five of them are from like Star Trek, So
like Gene Roddenberry and his wife Scottie was buried in
space or launched into space. What was the woman's name?

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Here?

Speaker 4 (31:48):
The the the the black woman that was on Star Trek,
the original one, I forget her name, Arthur C.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Clark.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
There was an ash I believe Gordon Cooper did that
as well. Michelle Nichols is the is. She played Lieutenant
Uhurah from Star Trek. DeForest Kelly was Scottie. Those are
the ones, and even lately they've like flown like DNA
from like George Washington and Kennedy and Eisenhower into outer space.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
So I'm just putting this here.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
I think there is something supremely fascinating about this, this
ritual that I've yet to really had an opportunity to comprehend.
I think it was like late last night or two
nights ago. I actually it was like, wait, so the
guy that they named this comment after that slammed into
Jupiter on the twenty fourth anniversary also is buried on

(32:41):
the Moon. Like, I just haven't had a chance to
like ski like put this all together.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
So maybe I'll throw this out to you guys.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
I mean there's all this like Jupiterian stuff that's associated
with the the the apall eleven stuff, right, Like I
mean not to mention that it's it's Zeus's eagle that
touches down on the surface, right, So what does it
mean that, like, you know, we're witnessing this cosmic collision
of Jupiter where it gets all messed up as a

(33:10):
result of this comment.

Speaker 6 (33:15):
That's a very remarkable coincidence, if I should. Yeah, But like.

Speaker 7 (33:21):
The more you talk about it, the more I keep
thinking that it's some sort of a racket or something
very different from what it is being presented as well.
I used growing up, I used to think they're exploring
space and everything, but now they're taking the DNA of
George Washington. It's so intertwined with the history and the
mythology of the country. So it's it's ringing alarm bells

(33:44):
for me, like every time every time I think more
about it.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, do they do things like this in India?

Speaker 7 (33:52):
They do that, but it's like very obvious that it's
a religious thing. But now it's I didn't expect this
in America. Let's just say it that they are very
normal country.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
No, no, no, not at all, not at all.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
We are incredibly abnormal.

Speaker 6 (34:14):
Right, Oh that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, it's weird. It just screams necromancy contact to me.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
I mean, go on, tell.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Me, tell me what you're thinking, well, we're going to
get into names.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Because like necromancy is like a it's like a thing
in Mormonism, which is for your specialties.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
What yeah, tell me, so.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
You know you're giving you get a second name when
you go through just like any others to see like
secret societies including magic and that magical name you know
can have some they say control over you if they
know that, just like how people obfuscate their birth charts
or birthdays or whatever if they're famous.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
They do this.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
But you know, when we know they're going, we're going
to talk about hair even in voodoo like minus Mormonism,
like this is important for other places like so we're
literally talking DNA.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yes, yes, I think you're on the right path.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yes, it just gets into the sympathetic magic stuff that
we looked at very early on in the Golden Bough.
Keep going, I want to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I just think that it's probably another form of contacting
if this is possible and they have figured it out,
and also charging, right, if they've looked at these people's
birth charts and they have you know, a strong moon
presence in their birth chart, I mean, are they charging
the DNA for a rise, like to talk to them,

(35:49):
you know, I mean, we know that that's not only
in our culture, like like I mean, we've got all kinds.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Of cultures that do that. Okay, So we see.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
This, and you know, Mormons are definitely all about definitely
baptizing the dead, definitely sealing the dead, definitely making sure
the dead or are sealed to their families for time
and all eternity.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's not biblical. So they got that from somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
And when we see this kind of stuff, I think
they know a piece clearly that we all don't know.
And why Steiner talks about the eighth sphere and why
people like Jewish people talk about spirits living right here
with us right now, like all over us. You know,
they're they're here co existing on a different linear. He's concerned,

(36:37):
he's checking it out. They say they're in the bathroom,
so be careful, but don't spend too much time in there.
I think that was maybe written by a woman, I
don't know, like get out of the bathroom, honey, get
off your phone.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
No, just kidding.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
And so when we see this stuff, it obviously clearly
means something or has some sort of magical power or
they wouldn't do it. People always say, well, that's stupid.
Magic is stupid, it's gone. I'm like, really, well, why
do they still practice it after all these years if
it doesn't work.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
You know something that you said, Heidi that resonated with
me when you talked about the baptizing of the dead,
And I wonder if this is a way to ensure
like some sort of personal apotheosis ascension process as a
result of being buried, essentially buried in heaven, planted in heaven,

(37:31):
planted in the sky above. And I'm I think a
lot of these people think that that's don't attach.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Like the symbolic meaning to it.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
They's like, oh yeah, I've just devoted my life to science,
I want to do these things like it's a beautiful,
poetic thing for me to do. But it does seem
to have that ring to it of ascension or.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
There God may be the female which is always associated
with the moon, and are they paying homage like we
just don't know. I mean, this is so interesting to me.
You know that I didn't know people were buried on
the moon. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Oh well I knew that these space burials were happening.
I did not know it had only been one, and
I did not know his name, and I did not
know his significance is connection to the Apollo eleven moon landing.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
So that was crazy fascinating.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Jordan, do you want to say something before we progress?

Speaker 5 (38:31):
Oh, it's just super super interesting. That's like what you
were saying about thinking America is so rational and quote normal.
I've been thinking a lot to I have this thought
frequently just going about the world. In the world, typically

(38:52):
the people I interact with, who self identify as the
most rational, the most logical, are so run by their
emotions it is insane to me. And I wonder, as
we're kind of bringing young into this if that's because
they've pushed the other to their subconscious so much they're
not aware of it. But it's just such an interesting theme.

(39:14):
And here, you know, we've bought all of the we're
indoctrinated in school not to believe in these things unless
you're part of a more niche community, but mainstream education here, Yeah,
magic's not real. Oh, but all the people in charge
are doing it every day.

Speaker 7 (39:38):
Yeah that's yeah, that makes it a bit more weird actually,
Like the discouraging people to practice it. Something I thought
when Heidi was talking about Steiner, I thought about it.
I thought, like whether his life story itself, would you know,
explain why he felt that way, Like do you know
any idea, because I'm thinking about like, in the society

(40:00):
was going up, what would be the things that happened
that he was not very comfortable with. Explain the idea
that you have to embrace your shadow or something like that,
Like I think bad things might be happening, so he
would be very uncomfortable with, you know, like proposing that idea.

Speaker 6 (40:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I think Steiner was the great compartmentalist, Like he wanted
to focus on other things and have people not focus
on the sad things or deal with those like, oh,
let's just go have this great dance instead, or let's
go He was kind of an overcomer, which I understand.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
There's many things that I think.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
People get too far into the weeds and they want
to go through every bad thing, like we all have
bad things and that might not be helpful to you,
or maybe it's too tragic and that might not be
helpful to you. So maybe he I'm just guessing here.
He had kind of an interesting situation with many things.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Of his own.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
So I think maybe he might have had an uncomfortable
working I don't know for sure, but it sure reads
that way, so I don't know.

Speaker 7 (41:11):
You also that, okay, that the space is the the
mother's fluid. You know, it's it's the bomb. So it's
like you you're burying someone there. So it's very simplet
you know. Also a lot of terrorists and people like that,
they get buried in the sea, you know, sea burriers.

(41:34):
I know that it's about the land laws that you're
not supposed to bury this person because he's not a
citizen or something like that, or like people will not
take it. But like the sea itself is also a
metaphor for the maternal I think.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
So that's a fantastic insight. Yeah, yeah, a return to them.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
Yeah this yeah, this is more of the return to
the mother, to the great mother. Yeah, back into the
amniotic fluid.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
I like that.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
I like that a lot. I think that's probably what
we're looking at. Wow, that was some great teamwork, guys,
Thank you. All right, So this is the one that
really is directed towards something that Jordan brought up last time,
and she I forget.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Do you do you have the text that.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
You have been reading about the Tavistoka Institute near you, Jordan,
You might it might be helpful to pull it up,
because it's going to be ultimately connected to all this.
I should have put it in the slide. I think
its names like James Alsten or something like that. I
forget what it is.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
Yes, I have the Kendle up.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
Okay, you might want to pull up the quote that
you had in mind if you can.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
If not, it's totally okay.

Speaker 5 (42:43):
I'm a little embarrassed because as I was reading it,
I was like, I want to know more. This was
just such an aside comment, and the more I dug
into it, it was really difficult to find more to it.
So I know you dug into it. I kind of
spiraled about it for four hours, and I agree with you,
there's not a strong link story. However, I think the

(43:06):
vibe of Auden was kind of in the mix with
a lot of these thinkers. A lot of these artists
and philosophers and the psychologists are all kind of swimming
in the same soup. Yeah, but I'll let you take over.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
But I'll find that work for you, Okay.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Sure, yeah, I mean I think it's I actually think
it's even more interesting what I was able to come
up with than the thing that you originally posited. So
wh Auden I did not know this because I'm not
some sort of Oden scholar. The only close reading of
Auden I've ever really done his work on the Moon
landing Jordan. I did a little video on that, and

(43:42):
really it precipitated a lot of the thoughts. You know, now,
it's getting deeper the more I'm saying it right now
out loud, But it really precipitated some of the initial
thoughts about this CONJUNCTIONO, this Hirogammo's marriage of sun and.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Moon in my mind and in her mind while we.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Were doing that, and has really led to this idea
of about it being some sort of cosmic conception. But
the way that the poem goes, it's like it's remarkably
dissatisfied with the whole endeavor, right that it's like just
an expression of masculinity and successive material science. He doesn't

(44:20):
seem to be too too thrilled with it, and that
kind of captures a lot of the spirit of the
time when we looked at Ian Ran and her expression
about why so little art was generated by the Apollo
missions because she saw it as being fundamentally Apollonian as
opposed to the Dionysian, which was inspiring all this chaotic art,
and artists themselves are chaos, and her perspective, so they're

(44:44):
not going to appreciate the accomplishments of engineering and science.
But Auden was deeply influenced by Freud and Jung. More
so Freud. Initially he wrote that poem that I had
up there.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
I believe it was just called Memory of Sigmund Freud
when he passed, and then.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
As he got into more religious subjects, he developed.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
More of an affinity for Carl Young.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
But as far as I can tell, that's that's the
strongest connection to the Tavistock Institute, because the founder of
the Tavistock Institute was deeply inspired by both Breyd.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
And Young, and his name was Hugh Crichton Miller.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
But I'll pause there for a second so Jordan can
show us what she's got there on the screen.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
From her book.

Speaker 5 (45:34):
Yeah, so kind of like the lead up to it,
they're talking about the Golden Dawn blah blah blah. Then
he goes on to say Crichton Zoacos explains that among
the other initiates and the children of the Sun were T. S. Eliot, W.

(45:58):
H Auden, Sir oz Wald Mosley, and D. H. Lawrence
Huxley's homosexual lover. It was Huxley. Furthermore, who would launch
the legal battle in the fifties. Well, yeah, anyway, we
don't have to get too deep into it. But he's
a lot of this is about Huxley. Yeah, these are
some of the other figures on the periphery. But I

(46:21):
know you're going to take it back to Young.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
So yeah, all.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Right, Well that gives me more information, so I can
dig deeper into it. But I think I know where
this guy got his inspiration. The guy that wrote this book.
Who what's his name.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
Again, Estelen E. S. T U L I N.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
James Stelen is his name or something like that. I'd
have to I'll look deeper into it. Okay, So going
back to the slide, if we can look at yes,
we can look at this again. I've also included a
paper by Stevenson about how Auden used Young's typology in
his writing. So what I think maybe everyone here is

(47:03):
already aware of. Is that Young actually gave a series
of lectures at the Tavistock Institute and those got it
compiled into this text analytical Psychology.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
But how exactly the.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Tavsak Institute may have used, like you know, we've talked
about and I don't want to trigger any I don't
want to trigger ostik or anything like that. We've talked about,
like the Tavistock Institute and the connection to the Beatles.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
But I kind of just started digging and looking into
that a little bit and a lot of these stories
about the social engineering. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm
just saying this is where it comes from. Is it
comes from this text by doctor John Coleman called The
Conspirators Hierarchy, the Story of the Committee of three hundred,

(47:57):
where he connects a lot of d I've.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Not read it.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
I'm not I have no idea if it's worthwhile at all.
I have a hunch that we should read it for
reasons I want to lay out here in a minute.
But this is the text and I went into it.
I did some key word search. He's the one that
originated this claim that the Beatles were a Tavistockian creation
and that they were doing this trying to usher us

(48:22):
into the aquarium age. So I'm looking for this text
and where do I find it? I find it on
the CIA website. That's strange. Why would this be on
the CIA website, like, especially since in many ways it's
like incriminating the CIA and all the social engineering via Tavistock.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Okay, Well, the reason why, and I don't know if
you guys.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Remember this when it happened like in twenty eleven, is
that this was one of the books on Osama bin
Laden's bookshelf. And the reason why it's on the CIA
website is that they released that as part of the
file on the Abadabad raid on the compound. And I
knew that Fritz spring Meyer's book on like the Illuminati

(49:08):
and stuff like that like was on bin Lan's bookshelf.
Long in the short of it is like you know
when whenever you see like these books flat, like when
you're watching a movie like like the Matrix, like Blis
Bougillard's simulacer in simulation has flashed at the very beginning, right,
it's like hey, nudge, nudge, wink, wink go.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Read this book. I feel like a lot of a
lot of the same stuff is happening here.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
Okay, Okay, Now, what's so fascinating about this text? The
conspirator's hierarchy is that it was a response to a
very real but unpublished text called Changing Images of Man.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
And this was sponsored Heidi's been at this a long time.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
She's probably like, yeah, I knew this like fifteen years ago,
but it was sponsored by the Kettering Foundation. And the
kind of the point of it, I'll just kind of
speak off the guard off the cuff here, but.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
The point of it was, Hey, what do we know about.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
Analytical psychology, what do we know about comparative religion, mythology,
et cetera, et cetera. Where we can usher in a
new paradigm to address what will be the challenges of
the late twentieth century and the twentieth first century and
have people think more globally, think more about ecology, and

(50:42):
so that we can head off the catastrophes that plagued
a lot of.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
The twentieth century.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
And that I think that probably sounds good on some level.
This was also done with the Stanford Research Institute, so
that has all sorts of weird tentacles as well. But
something that I found so fascinating about it as I
was like kind of googling and trying to find out
more about this obscure text, which you can find on
Internet archive, is that one of the major major editorial

(51:07):
reviewers of it and even had a contribution to it,
is Joseph Campbell. So it's like, what, Like, I kept
googling this book and it would come up as a
Joseph Campbell listing, and it would also come up as
a Mark Lee Harmon listing.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
I'm like, well, oh, this is just a coincidence.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
No, it's because Campbell's one of the major editors, and
in like the nineteen eighty two Pergamon Press one, his
contribution is restored and we can see what he has
to say about essentially how mythological archetypes can be levered
to kind of rewire man. And it's deeper than that.

(51:49):
I've not read either of these, but this seems to
be like a big deal, such a big deal that
Marilyn fergus And who is perhaps most celebrated for writing
What's the Aquarium Conspiracy? And I know that Heidi knows
about this and probably better than me. I am only

(52:10):
she was like, oh, yeah, this is a great thing.
Let me show you exactly how we can move people
into the new Age.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
I have not read it. I'm familiar with it.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
I got I found a copy of it, the book
on tape on eBay for like eleven bucks, so it'll
be here this week, so I'll dig into it.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
But isn't this wild? I don't know what to say.
I'm just like, is this crazy?

Speaker 6 (52:30):
Is this?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
I'm fascinating, Like.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
I would really want to know if Geller, and if
Uri Geller is involved in this, if his name came
up anywhere where you're looking, as well as uh oh the.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Name escapes me right now, I'll find it. I do
a whole thing on him all the time.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Right It's very impactful.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
I know that this Changing Image is a man book,
like they're all kind of swimming in it, like it
got into Edgar Mitchell from Apollo fourteen and the Institute
of Noetic Sciences were deeply influenced in this, and I
think I think there are connections there, and I imagine
through the I owns that there are connections to Yuri Yeller,

(53:15):
But I don't know that Hard.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
That's the name.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
You have to see if who Hard, because he's involved
in all that. And if he's involved in all that,
I'm going to tell you he knows the keys for
mental We'll just say training for things very saucy, bad
and and bot and would. I mean it just fits perfectly.

(53:42):
I mean, yeah, that just sprang to my mind immediately
when you start reading off names. So so I am
so ocd. I have to tell you, guys, Neil Armstrong
was a rotarian. He was Phi Delta Theta. He also was,
according to the Grand Lawge of Ohio's website, a freebason.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
So Neil so the Ohio claims him.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Claims him.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
It's interesting so and that's from their actual like the
Grand Lodges website.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
So I had to do.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
A deep dive there because a rotarian seems like it's nothing,
but it's a lot and the rotarian club gets crazy.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Well back to the regular schedule.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Yeah, I mean this is essentially what I'm putting out
here is like everything is connected to everything. I mean,
was whi and like somehow part of all this and
Tavsac I don't think that's established at all.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
It's just kind of like every time.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
I have an existential crisis when I'm studying stuff like this,
it's because I say, exactly what just came out of
your mouth? When my husband's like, well, who who did it?

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Or what?

Speaker 1 (54:49):
What? What was the background of it?

Speaker 2 (54:51):
And I'm like, it's the answer is that, yes, it's
all of them, it's everyone. Why are they all connected?

Speaker 1 (54:56):
It's yes. It's so annoying.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
And then they all pretend like they don't know each
other and they're like, shh, I don't know you that's
I guess you do.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Well, no, I don't know. I see.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
I'm squirrely about this because I'm walking this line. But
you know, this stuff, the changing image is a man.
This stuff came out in the early seventies. Okay, so
this is post Apollo.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
And.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
But what the point? The thing that's interesting about all
of it. You know, we've talked about what's going on here?
Is it Is it a naturally occurring event when we
look at the Apollo Misians or something like that, or
you know, can the human mind.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Be hacked and redirected via archetypal theory? And it seems like.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
This is what this study was commissioned to dig deeper
into I do not know what the findings were. They
might have been, Actually you can't be done, case closed,
let's not ever.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Do that probably what they'd say anyway.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, yeah, but then we see everything like nine to eleven. Okay,
we see these just barely with Charlie Kirk. We see
this collective feeling of things and it can they harness
that there is no possible way. So same thing with
back then, whatever whichever way they're controlling population, you know,

(56:21):
simply done, simply done.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
So like the Commet. You still remember the fear from that.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Yeah I do. Yeah, I do remember the dread of
that comment exactly.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
And and then think of if they're trying to steer
society into a better age, I dare say back then,
like oh look we're going to the moon. Oh look
we're doing these cool things where really it's just energy
to them. Either way, they're going to eat it. You know,
anybody that's seen Monsters inc. Like it's the program, I mean,
which is so silly to say, but it is what

(56:54):
it is.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Well, the point I would make about the Commet is
that because I've not taken a telescope out to actually
look at Jupiter and say and compare previous images of Jupiter.
I'm not sure exactly what level of evidence I would
need to be satisfied, because all sorts of pyrotechnics could
have been created in order to give the illusion of

(57:16):
a comet smashing into Jupiter on the twenty fifth anniversary
of the Moon landing. But the reason why I kind
of push for this being a panentheist, a panentheist perspective
that perhaps spiritual forces are in control of, is that
no amount of men could collude in order to put

(57:37):
marks on the face of Jupiter unless it's all unless
it's all pyrotechnics. Now, maybe they say those spots on
Jupiter are like gone now and they healed up and
there's nothing to see here. That would make that, I
suppose more suspicious. But if they're there and we could
easily document it now, from what I understand is that
it hit Jupiter while it was like rotating away, hit

(58:00):
like the backside of Jupiter, so you couldn't really observe
the impact. Supposedly there were you know, plumes or whatever
that could be seen around the edges or whatever.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
What was the name of the comment again, do you remember.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
It's like Shoemaker Levee nine or Levee Shoemaker nine when
I think that nine is really significant when we look
at the numinosity stuff as well.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Okay, so yeah, I think Astik has something to say here.

Speaker 7 (58:31):
Oh I just wanted to point out, like why Joseph
Campbell might be involved with this book. So I heard
an interview with him, and he talked about like we
need visions because you know, intellect can only harness some
true or false statement, but visions comes from within and

(58:52):
from our dreams. So he talks about like myths have
the power to transmit visions to the world. I think
that is why he might be a good candidate to
you know, contribute to this journal, because it's about a
vision of society, what is going to look like in
the future, what's going to look like?

Speaker 6 (59:12):
And then now like where are we going? So I
think in his.

Speaker 7 (59:16):
Program is a good example of you know, human psychological
future orientation kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
And I doubt Joseph Campbell.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
I doubt Joseph Campbell was like, Oh, I'm going to
be really evil and try to.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Like engineer all of humanity through the space program.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
He probably was like, yeah, these are like real no,
maybe he has agreed, but like he might have been like, yeah,
we have real challenges in the twenty first century, and
to meet those challenges, these are the things that we
ought to do. He probably he probably felt like he
was acting from a place of conscience. What would you
say to that, Astick? Let's it let's say in Heidi too,

(59:56):
but I kind of interrupted Ostik.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Let's say, it's possible to hack.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
The mind with these mythological visions. Is it appropriate to
do that in order to face challenges that you perceive
to be real? I mean, this is getting into an
ethical conundrum. I'll let me give the floor back to
you since I interrupted you.

Speaker 7 (01:00:18):
I think it depends upon the I'm not the one
with the power to do that, so I don't think
I can make that decision or like relate.

Speaker 6 (01:00:27):
With the people.

Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
But I think the people like Campbell, they are in
the heart of hearts like you or I d and Jordanaire.
There's scholars, there are seekers in a way, you know,
they think about things they want to study. There like
fascinated by these myths. So I think Joseph Campbell was
some somewhat of that character. Like from what I've understood

(01:00:50):
about reading about him and listening to him, So he
might have thought, like, I'm in a good position to,
you know, like influence the world in a positive way.

Speaker 6 (01:00:58):
So I'm thinking about.

Speaker 7 (01:00:59):
That that he even if he if he thought that
you can influence a mind, why not do it for good?
Because I heard Paul McCartney. Have you have you seen
his LSG interview or something like that. I think he
talks about that if you have so much, if you've
been bestowed with so much power, why not use it
for good? So we try to spread the message of

(01:01:21):
peace and love, you know, he talked about like that,
because they're aware of the power they have. You know,
these people have influence and then they think about like
the other guitar, other musicians are there, they're doing you know,
like weird satanic things, you know, and other musicians. So
there's levels to what people do with the power when
they have it. So I think Joseph Campbell, I think

(01:01:43):
he was doing from in his heart, like what he
wanted to the world to be, to solve its problems
in what he understood them at the time the thieth
century was.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
Yeah, I generally think Campbell was on the up and eye,
but he was a true believer. But maybe Heidi thinks
there's something more inferious.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
I'm just always worried about who surrounds them, so I
haven't had enough chance to see who is surrounding him,
because every instinct and everything that these people originally start
with is usually harnessed for good or they probably wouldn't
do it, just like Tesla, like he was like trying

(01:02:26):
to help and then they just bob blew up as literally,
I mean they're like, no, you don't get to do that.
We're gonna blow up your tower. So I think that
ultimately these people get controlled. And the best phrase ever
that I've heard anybody say of this is like, yeah,
they let them take the reins, and then one day
they're like, oh, I'm a real boy, and they're like haha, no,

(01:02:48):
you're not stupid. Go back to the Donkey Islands, you know.
And so I feel like that's exactly what happened to JFK.
I feel like a lot of this stuff has, you know,
when there's pushed back, especially its people like Doulas or
these people that are just like whah, they're everywhere like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
All the time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
I mean, you're studying something as weird as the Seance
of the Nine and Doulas's girlfriend is there, like I'm
not kidding, there everywhere, And so when you're looking at that,
you have to say, who was surrounding him and did
he give his ideas in a holistic, wonderful way and
they did whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
They did with it?

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Yeah, I guess this is I mean, to put it
more bluntly, would you see Joe Campbell's like a useful idiot?

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
I mean is that? I feel like that's what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
So sad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I feel like the most smart people like Howard Hughes okay,
I Q one fifty nine, Like these people are not dumb,
like even Elon to a point, although he has he
has a dark family, so he's a little different.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
These other people that have.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
No knowledge, and they really are like Howard Hughes was
pulled into everything because he literally was against communism and
he was all about patriotism. And then you know, they
used him until they killed him. Basically, in my opinion,
you know, they can say he died all he wants.
He's got hypodermic needles stuck in his body. You don't
do that. Back then, that's stupid and drug addicts know
how to do it, like they're not gonna have multiple

(01:04:13):
needles stuck in there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
So same thing for this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
I don't know enough about his surroundings to know yet,
but now you've probably sent me down a little spiral,
So yeah, I'll be figuring it out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
And Luke who first published Joseph Campbell the bol Engin Institute,
We just did a deep dive there. Who funded the
bul Egin Institute. Well, now we know? Oh, like, can
I just say it, like now we know? Oh? Like
this family is sort of Cia royalty.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
They always are.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
I'm yeah, I'm just.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
I'm just looking at the large.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
Yeah, and I I'm all, I'm just curious, Like I
don't know these people. I can't personally talk to them,
but in general, like even with young and then how
do you probably know much more about Alice Bailey than
I do. But she's someone who I've been kind of
interested in recently. And really the Aquarium Conspiracy as a concept,

(01:05:23):
like that book kind of put me down. That Rabbit
trokex is like where where did most of these ideas
get seeded into the culture, Because you see so much
of the New Age movement whatever. Like there's all these patterns,
these themes, where did they come from? And I'm eternally curious,
like how much were these just organic, genuine insights that

(01:05:44):
were put into the world and then hijacked, distorted, et cetera,
et cetera. At what point was it perverted and twisted?
And you kind of see that everywhere, like everything right now,
it's like all of the symbols, you know, underneath there
is this beautiful energy, this beautiful I guess even like

(01:06:06):
this tapestry of life force kind of playing out in
all of these different geometries and colors and frequencies, which
is amazing. And we have we find ourselves in an
environment where there's this artificial grid kind of laid on
top of it trying to siphon energy from it that

(01:06:28):
may not be of life. I mean you could say
anti christ like in the sense of these are forces
that don't necessarily have the same like spark of the
divine that are trying to siphon it off through these
like funnels and things on top of this. Its super articulate.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
No, you're doing great, I think I forget it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Yeah, talking about see that's the thing and that's a
that kind of rubs up against the difficulty that I
have talking about this stuff because I'm aware of levels,
Like I've been at this a long time. I know
all about the connections. Okay, like maybe not.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
As well as Heidi.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Heidi's really good at that, but I'm just so no, no,
you're you're great.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
You're great, and I really appreciate that. But I really
want to try.

Speaker 4 (01:07:16):
I really want to focus on that tapestry layer of
psychic energy that is like coursing through everything that is
writing and driving everything. That pattern. That's the thing that
I'm really after. But it touches on that perhaps manufactured grid,
that artificial grid that you speak of, and so that's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
I think difficulty.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yeah, I told us that in the Seven Sermons of
the Dead, he's talking all about a Braxis, the great
and terrible Braxis, which is neither.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Good nor evil.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
But it is not that he's neither and and so
he's the god above God's but he he isn't. It's like, oh,
don't even worship him, don't even anything, because then he'll
be terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Like it's always this good and evil.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Like he even says, if you if you get something
good from that god, like you will have something reciprocated
bad in the same level to whigh the scale. It's
all about these scales clear back to Egypt and Babylon.
And every time, you know, this always goes back there
when we look at everything, like we've got to look
at Hinduism, We've got to look at you know, Egypt.

(01:08:23):
We've got to look at these things that people don't
want to look at because it breaks their reality.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Is there good in theosophy? I have. I've studied anthroposophy
for sure a lot, and theosophy quite a bit. There
is a lot of good in Steiner. Okay, However, then
you flip that coin.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
You know, there's always that other side of things, and
they're you know, that's that's part of this puzzle. But
I do think this energy is there, Like to your question,
do I think that there is something? We'll look at
the four of us that knew nothing about each other,
worlds almost apart literally like, and yet we have this

(01:09:07):
baseline because we're seeking the truth. Right, I'm not going
with NASA the CIA anytime soon. So yeah, yeah, money
or money or fame or you know, even the thought
of don't you want to help human I mean, this
is how I could see somebody like Joseph being sucked in.

(01:09:28):
Don't you want to help humanity elevate to a higher
consciousness with your assistance.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
And your work?

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
And then they just screw him? Because it happens every time.
I mean, it's it's awful. Like we look at the
real society, the Thuley society, like, look at all these
old things that they initially started in this good way
and then things went left real fast.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Literally.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
I mean, I don't know, I'm not intimately aware of
Campbell's biography, but like he lived a pretty good life.
I think, you know, like he he got his work
out there. I had a lot of impact on culture,
you know. You know, I think later in life was
kind of celebrity on PBS through Bill Moyer's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
So I mean, even even Steiner says, do you want
to learn how to literally travel worlds with your mind?
Go push an old person on the beach. He's not
telling people to do evil things. But did they take
that and make it something else?

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
I think the butterfly encapsulates it for me, like you know, yeah,
project mon Art blah blah blah, and so I found
myself not using butterflies as much. But I love butterflies.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
So well, And you have to look at it for
what you know that you are your intention ultimately, that's
the main Like, don't let it drive you away. Because
I had an existential crisis over praying, Like I was like,
oh my God is amen am and raw, and like
do I go in God or Lord?

Speaker 6 (01:11:04):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
What about Lord? Lord is bad?

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Like I went through this whole phase where I was like, ah,
we just don't know what to do. And it's all
to make you not believe in something as beautiful as nature, right, like,
as beautiful as God, as beautiful as the things around
you that surround you in a good way. They want
all of it to be demonized. So then what nothing's
like nothing?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
So well?

Speaker 5 (01:11:30):
I agree. I think some of the work to be
done now is to reclaim these symbols, the these frequencies
that are just part of the natural life energy and
bring back a positive intention with them would be nice.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
I think we I think, I mean maybe we're not
you know, as popular as some, but we can sure
try and do what we can do.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
They can't stop that, for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
I do want to be somewhat quick about the next
two slides because it's getting late where Oscik is. I
want to make sure we get all through the Fraser
material as well. Also, my commanders are playing, so yeah,
there's that too. I'm joking. Okay, So if we just

(01:12:20):
I wanted to look at this number situation here, I
don't know if I have much more clarity. If you
guys got a chance to look at the stuff that
we did last time on Apollo thirteen noticeably absent from
that list. It's the number eleven. And we know that
the number eleven is a big, big deal, like we
especially when you talk about these like major world events

(01:12:40):
with Apollo eleven, nine to eleven, not not to mention
like the personal synchronicities that people think they have all
the time where they're seeing eleven eleven in microwaves. Ironically,
I saw that today before Hey, we got ready to
do this. I'm like, okay, now I'm noticing eleven eleven
in the microwave. But I've looked kind of high and low,

(01:13:01):
and I don't really have any good leads. You know,
we know about ten and twelve and thirteen from a
young in perspective, and why they might have some numinosity
as far as ten and twelve are concerned with completion
and order, and thirteen being this transgressive number that violates
that complete cycle. But eleven is more difficult to find.

(01:13:22):
And I've tried to get into Marie von Franz's number
in time. It's been difficult. One thing that I will
say is that one potential place to look that could
be rewarding I do not know is the Eaching. The
eaching is a major part of what Young was doing

(01:13:44):
with his work, and I'm not some expert in the eaching.
It makes an appearance in his work on synchronicity. He
wrote the ForWord for Richard Wilhelm's version. From what I understand,
it's kind of like consulting an oracle.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
It's kind of like divination. And I just went, I
was like, what.

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
Is hexagram eleven from the eaching?

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
And it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
It's this one called peace or harmony, depending on the
translation that you're looking at, and it's about the unification
of heaven and Earth. And I feel like that's really
interesting and potentially relevant. I have no idea if it's
a proper application to understanding these numbers, but just here's
one of the passages early on, Heaven and Earth unite
the image of peace. Thus the ruler divides and completes

(01:14:32):
the course of heaven and earth, and so aids the people.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
And this.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
Pictogram here you can see that the upper part, I
guess the trigram has something that looks like an eleven
and that's the image for the earth, and the lower
part has these three lines that are connected with heaven.
So I'm just putting that there. I have so much
more research to do in this, but potentially relevant also

(01:14:59):
you could talk about eleven. It is also breaking the
completeness of ten, so that might have something to do
with that and what that means as far as like, Okay,
are we ushering in a news cycle like we're beginning again.
It might have something to do with that, and we
can talk about this, but I want to do let's
just maybe talk about five and we can talk about

(01:15:19):
five and eleven at the same time. So, Jordan, if
you wouldn't mind progressing to the next slide, unlet's ask it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Do you want to say something real quick? Sure, let's
go back.

Speaker 7 (01:15:28):
Yeah, it talks about peace. So I was thinking about
it in terms of doctor strange love and the recall
code is peace on Earth or purity of essence. I
kept thinking about that, like and then Poe is at
Grado as well, so.

Speaker 6 (01:15:44):
You do guys talk about it in the last episode.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
Yeah, okay, that's good, right, right.

Speaker 7 (01:15:50):
So so that's what I thought, because in the Roman
times there was this idea of time being still.

Speaker 6 (01:15:57):
There's this there's a there's a.

Speaker 7 (01:15:58):
Destiny of of people and it stops when the Roman
Republic is pounded. Roman Empire is pounded by Augustus. So
he talks about like after I'm the emperor, I'm going
to create eternal peace.

Speaker 6 (01:16:10):
So there's this idea of you know, creating peace.

Speaker 7 (01:16:13):
And I think the calendar it's supposed to be like
December is the last month and December is ten, so
there used to be ten months in the calendar back
back in the day. Afterwards, like julysses are added two
three months more to like actually make the carendar work fine.
So I'm thinking about in terms of like eleven might
be a significant number. Or when you talk about thirteen,

(01:16:37):
thirteen is like it creates disharmony. So if you have
thirteenth month, so it means like your cycle is not
continuing as it should. I'm just riffing off here. So
like what we talked about, Yeah, these things course, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
I don't I had here in the title.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
I mean, I think it's pretty obvious, but they I
even see the eleven eleven in Apollo eleven, Like those
double l's look like eleven's to me, and that might
be relevant on some level.

Speaker 7 (01:17:10):
Also, eleven eleven is eleventh of November, so nine November
is nine.

Speaker 6 (01:17:15):
So yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
Said, yeah, that gets into Yeah, that gets into some
interesting things. Yes, uh, let's get a five. Let's go
to the next slide if we can. I thought, oh,
you know, we'll get through these little now. I know
why Austin was like, can we do this at the end. Yeah,

(01:17:39):
I forgot. I didn't have time to rearrange them.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
Okay, So the number five.

Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
We talked about the number five in terms of this
Jack and the beanstock motif that we seem to encounter
in Apollo fourteen and the Apollo Soya's missions and how
connects to the the Tree of Life, the cabalistic tree
of Life and Jacob's ladder, and this this idea of
ascending to heaven through the integration of the shadow, like

(01:18:09):
understanding the roots and hell and the ascension aspect of
all this as Carl Jung would talk about. But was
so interesting is that in regards that there's like more
fives and these Apollo stories we talked about there being
the five different species of moon trees that they took

(01:18:29):
around the moon or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
But then like the most.

Speaker 4 (01:18:32):
Obvious five is the Saturn five rocket. I don't know
why that didn't occur to me. And then I think
Jordan and I gotten this little conversation about perhaps there
was a connection between Oryan and like Easter eggs, and
what I found there is that in this Orion capsule
that they have associated with Artemis, they have gone and

(01:18:53):
hidden five different Easter eggs in the around Ryan capsule.
So there's nonumber five and hiding and taking and naming
the rock. And I think it has something to do.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think it has something
to do with like the human pentagram that has something
to do. We have five sentences, we have five senses,

(01:19:14):
five appendages we have and so there seems to be
some aspect to this number five where the elemental aspects
of us are perhaps give way to a new type
of consciousness or something like that with the fifth element, right,
so the arms and the legs and then ultimately the mind.
So I'm not exactly sure, but I just wanted to

(01:19:36):
point that out. It was so interesting. I had I
had the night of the night prior to us going
out to pizza. One night, I was digging into this
Orion Artemis the Easter eggs that they planted throughout the capsule,
and we picked up a pizza and the guy in
the pizza place was wearing an Orion Artemis shirt and
I was like, oh my god, like, I've stopped including

(01:20:00):
the synchronicities because we can't go anywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
Yeah yeah, I was like why why. He's like, well,
I got it off of Amazon.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
And you know, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Yeah, but there aren't they small It's a small world,
as we've learned this past week or so. That's true
small world.

Speaker 7 (01:20:26):
I mean, so it's interesting that they're hiding it, you know,
if they have them, they're hiding and then they're telling
you that fy. So it's like there's an element of
mystery that they want you to know something about it.
There's something Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
Well they want yeah, like there there's like and there
the references, like the stuff that they put in the
Oriyan capsule is like all in group knowledge. Like there's
a reference to someone named Charlie who is like important
in the program. There's callbacks to the Apollo missions in it.
So it's not like esoteric in terms of like occult
sort of thing, but it's it's just kind of like

(01:21:02):
these references like if you get if you like, you're
a I don't know. It's like Taylor Swift references. She's like,
we got to put a new record out, and then
she's referencing album two, an album fifteen or something like that,
like if you're it's not like you don't know, you're
not allowed to know these things.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
So racist is very interesting question.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
They're pretty much coming right out and saying, we put
easter eggs in all the missions. Please try to find them,
but whatever you do, don't find the don't look beyond
the ones we've acknowledged, because there are no more. And
it's like that's why I almost feel like like I

(01:21:41):
get freaked out about talking about some of the things
we talked about here because you know, whatever, okay, but
it's almost like everything that we're encountering in this life.
It's like bad on purpose. It's coded on purpose. I
think it's almost like some arrangement we have entered into.
It's like we are on the east to egg hunt
and it whatever we think we are up against, they

(01:22:05):
kind of want us to find it. And I look
back at that that Sri study.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
What they were really trying to do was.

Speaker 4 (01:22:15):
Like integrate Eastern perspectives with Western perspectives. And I think
in general they wanted to make people like smarter and
more psychic. And it's like, what's one way we could
do this, Well, we could plant all these crazy clues
in everything, and like they will actually like find new
levels of consciousness in the process. Like I think someone

(01:22:38):
someone where wants to breed schizophrenic conspiracy people.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
Or why make it so bad? It's so bad on purpose? Well,
this one is connected to that book.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
But I mean this one is you know five five
is like human perfection. It also can be a talisman
for protection. The sale of Solomon, of course, we know,
you know, and and maybe they were trying to protect things.
You know, at this point in time, things were sketchy,

(01:23:14):
you know, so maybe they were trying to blanket protection
over humanity.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
I mean, that's one happy thing. I could say, depends
on which side the star is.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
If they flipped it us, we're all screwed, but upright,
it's all good.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
Well, Heidi, what do you think? Do you think? I'm curious.

Speaker 4 (01:23:39):
I spent a lot of time with Jordan Austik about this,
But do you think there could be like an attempt
to create benevolent psychosis in people like us?

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
I don't know about.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
I don't know about in the thinkers, but yes, I mean,
how many times do we have a new profit and
then things go terribly wrong? Okay, this psychosis and up
like and then there's an angel and let's swap wives
and you can have a hundred wives. And that's usually
how it goes with a new book, right like, it's
always it's always been evolent at first, and then we

(01:24:10):
take a hard left and and I think by that time,
even for John d again five books of Mystery, back
with John d Well, we see this time and time
again where they start out so good and then you know,
it just goes so bad and they but they comply.
That's the difference. Okay, if somebody all of a sudden

(01:24:32):
said to me, Okay, I'm in this.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
I'm in this. I'm fully in this. This is what
I mainly think about.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
All the time. Now, you know, just all the research
and different things. If somebody all of a sudden came
to me and said, now to get all of the knowledge,
you got to share your husband, Yeah, get the hell
out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
I'm not doing that.

Speaker 5 (01:24:51):
Like it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
It has to be about that that compliance at some
point where I think the test is for a lot
of people. And I just saw this random, random video
about this and it fits here where people were tested
at an elevator and everybody turned the wrong way. They
didn't turn toward the door, they turned like weird ways

(01:25:11):
backwards or whatever, and it was all it was like
to do a study on these people and every single
person eventually churned and complied.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
There's no way I would do that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
I'm I would be like, in fact, I think I
would be verbally like what are you weirdos doing? Like
why why are you doing that? Get away from me,
like go behind me or something like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
I wouldn't do that. I would be questioning.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
So for those that have this, I think what you
said at first, they're trying to enlighten people because we
can't get to the end. Their end goal is is
to get to the end and have it either come
by enlightenment or we.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
Get into zabatai zeb and that's a whole mess. So
you know, it's either going to come by light or dark.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
And so if they're trying to wake people up, it
can go horrifically wrong or case in point, it could
be used right, maybe it's not horrifically wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Maybe they did that on purpose to use it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
So I don't think everybody's inherently evil quite quite a
matter of fact, I think we're all born on the
light side. But things can go desperately wrong. And why
because there's always false gods involved. You want money, you
want women, you want cars, you want men, you want
whatever it is. You want that Gucci bag, like it

(01:26:31):
always is something that they can use and for those
of us that don't have that, like zero sponsors, like
can't shut me up, Like sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
About that, you know, and and that's scary for them
and get you get ostracized immediately, I will tell you that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
Well, that raises an interesting question if if it is
inviting us to a form of enlightenment by encouraging us
to go on the side giant puzzle game, Right, would
your analogy? Right if someone came along and be like, hey,
you can know all the secrets of the universe, Like
you're so addicted to information and discovery and sussing everything out,

(01:27:13):
you just have to compromise, like the sanctity of your
marriage and we'll give it to you. And maybe that's
like kind of the I've gotten addicted to the knowledge,
and now it's like, well, how far are you willing
to go? How much do you really love truth?

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
Luke? What are you prepared to compromise or give up?

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
And it goes right back to the Garden of Eden
right there, because what was it that Lucifer? Like he
gave her what the knowledge of good and evil? Like
this is all about. This has always been about knowledge.
This has always been about temptation since the beginning. Whether
or not people believe in that story is fine. You

(01:27:49):
can use it as an allegory. To me, it's real
because I'm a Christian, But I am just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Ultimately, what was the temptation? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
It's always knowledge and pride, always always, and the pride
comes before the fault. And why because John Dye spent
most of the years of his life trying to figure
out that knowledge, and when it came to his wife,
you know, maybe that sacrifice was necessary because he was
prideful and needed that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
At some point.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
You have to know when to back up, like it
easily could have done that with the Charlie Kirk thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
I'm hearing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
Utah, I refuse to speak about it for three days
and I actually didn't speak about it for ten because
I knew what they were doing. They were charging the house,
and I refuse to play their game. So I was like, yeah,
I have a lot of things to say about this later.
Pray for the family. Buy I'm sure they hate me
for that, but like, ultimately we have to know who

(01:28:44):
we are inside. I know ultimately I'm not changing on
an elevator. If everybody's weird, I'm just like, you're weird.
And I won't say like I probably would say it
out loud, like what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Why are you doing that?

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
They don't like people that do that, they don't like that.
They burn them ass mm hmmm.

Speaker 5 (01:29:03):
I think it's a trick. It's a trick, like, oh,
we'll give you more we'll show you like more of reality.
When the moment you make that bargain, you are closing
off your ability to access it fully because you're no
longer receiving it through your connection through your body temple
directly from source from God.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
And like.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
All use, you shut it off and decided to take
on the belief that someone outside of you would be
able to jack you into truth more than you could
do for yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
And when is enough enough? When is enough enough? And
step aside and say, yeah, there's mysteries in the universe.

Speaker 5 (01:29:51):
There always will be, Yeah, exactly, just keeps expanding.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
And my pride is not that way because I never
see part of the whole Mormon churches issue is they
want to become God.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
Well I don't. I'm a happy servant and people, I'm
not a slave. There's a choice.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
A servant is someone that serves because of the grace
of their heart, not because they're forced.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
Not the same.

Speaker 4 (01:30:17):
So yeah, all right, good stuff. Okay, I propose that
we take a five minute break, okay, and then we'll
get we'll then we'll go to go through the fraser.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
Is that okay with everybody?

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
Yep?

Speaker 5 (01:30:29):
Sounds great?

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
All right, right, let's just pose it for a minute. Okay,
I appreciate that. I need there you go, mm hmmm.

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
Before getting too far into it, I'll frame it. There
were two things that came to mind going into my
examination of all this, all these different taboos. The first thing,
because I think I'm kind of like prime to pick
up on it, were how much of this could be
applied to whatever happened in twenty twenty okay, uh And

(01:31:12):
in regards to how we treat strangers, what we think
is coming in and out of our mouths, why we
need to.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
Mask them, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
But also, and I was talking about this with Jordan
before we went on the air, I was like, you know,
there's a lot of woo girly stuff in this as well,
and I don't want to put I don't want to
I don't want to put.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
Jordan on blast or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:33):
So I imagine she's gonna have Yeah, you've you've got
your sage right there.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
The clearing aspect of this, uh sooned applicable.

Speaker 5 (01:31:43):
And for your rationalistic mind, the saging also has an
ionizing effect, so you can look into that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
So yeah, this.

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
Gets in the whole thing. Right, It's like intention right,
like so and that could plan.

Speaker 5 (01:32:00):
Here's what I'm trying to say. I have I have
an air ionizer back here that's like from a science company,
and it works quite well. Also, the sage does a
very similar thing, and it's burning a bundle of dried plants.
So I'm just saying it's like, you can take it
from either way, but they're both trying to accomplish a

(01:32:22):
similar thing, right.

Speaker 4 (01:32:24):
But I guess it's raises a very interesting question and
it perhaps help helps us understand is what is the priority?

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
Right? Is this?

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
Does the spiritual belief proceed the scientific understanding?

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
So I imagine like in regards to your woogirl practices,
if I may call them that, that that it's the
spiritual belief that precedes the science. And that raises an
interesting question about what we've been looking at regards to
Apollo programs. Do the spiritual beliefs Because people are like, oh,
you can't talk about the Apollo programs with archetypal psychology

(01:32:57):
and ritual and all this other stuff, Yes we can, perps.
I need to say, well, I'm trying to aim for
clarity here because you're like there are people go there
was real science and all this stuff going on there.
The way you're talking about it is undermining the credibility
of that science. No, I guess one could say, just
like Jordan's clearing practices, that is a spiritual belief that

(01:33:20):
she posits and then finds science to back it up.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
John d is the perfect example of this. He was
a mathematician who said numbers were God's language. He was
very scientific minded and brilliant. However, he also table tapped.
Let's be realistic here. He made the table So there's that.

(01:33:44):
Why does it have to be one?

Speaker 4 (01:33:46):
Yeah, well it's just a matter of priority, that's the
that's the question I'm getting into. But let's get into
the to the reading. I mean, were there any sort
of general thoughts about this reading? I mean, what came
to mind when you guys read it.

Speaker 5 (01:34:00):
The earlier today? When you open this, you said stranger
and Strange lands, And I think we could do a
whole study of that book, which is more modern. But
I just wanted to highlight that that as a concept
is fascinating and where we get the term groc from.
So anyway, that's just a whole different rabbit hole. I

(01:34:22):
think we could go down, but not today.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
There's lots of Heinlan involved in the epolement, but not
necessarily in for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:34:27):
Yeah what about you asked.

Speaker 7 (01:34:31):
Uh, I keep losing my train of thoughts that I
think in my mind what I'm going to say, and
then the conversationship to another diction.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 7 (01:34:41):
Okay to catch up again. So I was thinking about
is in terms of what we are discussed in the
last chapters. I think there are things that that are
going to come up about.

Speaker 6 (01:34:52):
You know, you cannot touch the king.

Speaker 7 (01:34:54):
There's a taboo to even see the king, to watch
him eat the one guy I was executed for, like
even just watching a king eat. So I think, like
we talked about these kings, they are area farming in
a way. They want to be disembodied, you know, completely everywhere, omnipresent.

(01:35:15):
They're trying to, you know, like become gods in a sense.
They don't want them to know, but their influence should
be everywhere, and these very hardline rules are set up
to I think all of these. I wondered like this
chapter would be very salicious, but then it was kind
of very normal. So yeah, that was my main impression.

(01:35:37):
I was pretty disappointed. I was thinking, oh, strangers, Yeah,
something's going on.

Speaker 6 (01:35:44):
Then it's like nothing.

Speaker 7 (01:35:46):
Stupid things like you know, a lot of stupid were
like the usual stuff that we discussed.

Speaker 5 (01:35:53):
Well, what's usual to us now is maybe so different
than it was several months ago before starting this. But
I do want to say, like taboo being in the
title of this chapter, I totally understand where you're coming from.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
I definitely felt like, again two things, one hundred percent
immediately went to Howard Hughes in my brain, just because
so much of this, you know, goes right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
Down the line of that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
But also when we're talking about cutting off the speaking
to God and these high body counts that people are doing,
and they don't understand that there's a soul transaction. You know,
when you're with someone and especially just a stranger, you
don't know what they're transferring to you, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
And I don't care what plastic.

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
Is between Like yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's the
great cutoff Again.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
They're trying to you know, push that often now.

Speaker 3 (01:36:50):
So well, I look forward to.

Speaker 4 (01:36:56):
Applying this to this world event that we all went
through and think about contagion in that respect. So, I mean,
we've talked a lot about the importance of the king
in all these different cultures and how the king is
like essential, like essentially like at the center.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
Of the universe for a lot of these cultures.

Speaker 4 (01:37:14):
And if he looked he has to we looked at
it with like the Emperor of Japan, he had to
like hold his gaze in such a way.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
And this whole expression.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
Heavy is the head that wears the crown like has
a new meaning for me when you understand like just
how much the community depended upon their their their monarch
who uphold the stability of their entire way of life,
and how easily they could overthrow them if they felt
like he was the source of disruption in their life.

(01:37:45):
So uh uh, it makes sense that they would impose
all these different taboos on their leader to make sure
that their quality of life.

Speaker 3 (01:37:57):
Was not destabilized.

Speaker 4 (01:37:59):
And a lot of that is to make sure that
their their leader does not get possessed, have a soul extracted,
suffers any sort of illness that would bode.

Speaker 3 (01:38:09):
Bad for the collective. And yeah, let's see what I
have here.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
The you know, we're gonna look at things like enforcing
seclusion and fearing of strangers. A lot of it is
is cleansing the strangers that they encounter with. So the
graft that I or the charts that I have here,
we can just take a look.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
At some of these.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
One of the examples that they that Fraser talks about
is how like Turkish shamans would purify just in the
seconds ambassadors with incense. And there are other scenarios you
talked about, like we're animal sacrifices and things like that
would be made because there's this idea that these strangers
that are encountering the leader and the people that they
are bringing these malicious spirits from elsewhere into the community.

(01:39:06):
So all these things have to be done in order
to essentially sanitize them of these malicious spirits that there
are perhaps attached to them. The Appleai Indians what they
would do if strangers would visit them, they would take
these ants and in order to disarm whatever sort of

(01:39:28):
magical danger that they would have, they harm them. They
stung them with these ants. I guess there is this
idea that if they could cause pain in visiting strangers,
that somehow they could make the demons like leap out
of them. There's also these stories about using peppers, like
underneath the fingernails and putting it in the eyes. I
forget which communities were doing this, the UH I think

(01:39:54):
the Julie spice sprinkling and the Java pepper forgout and
the slave coasts had these these pepper cuts.

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
And if we want to go to the next.

Speaker 4 (01:40:04):
Slide, they would in the onngtongue of the of the
Java islands. They would do maybe something not as painful,
but they would have sorcerers there that would sprinkle strangers
with water and anoint them with oil. This doesn't sound
so bad compared to having, you know, peppers put underneath

(01:40:26):
your fingernails or put in your eyes, or being pepper
sprayed or something like that. But then we get into
what people may do when entering into strange lands. And
I'll pause there for a second just to get some
some commentary from you guys.

Speaker 8 (01:40:45):
Austic, Yeah, you talked about the event, so I was
thinking about the preceding event of the that was.

Speaker 6 (01:41:02):
In in the.

Speaker 7 (01:41:03):
US, specifically about the AIDS crisis in the nineteen eighties.
So yes, well, yeah, yeah, it actually you know, enforced
that taboo in society that you should not be having,
you know, contact with strangers because like actual sexual contact
with strangers, because it carried this risk. So like I'm

(01:41:26):
not sure. I'm just thinking about it in terms of literally,
like it's it's a taboo, you cannot have intercourse because
I think gay people when they during that time, I
think they had to resort to like meeting strangers in
strange places, you know, in clubs or you know, in
the alleyways things like that. So I'm thinking about in

(01:41:47):
that terms. So literally, you're enforcing this you cannot have that.
If you have your it's a death sentence.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
Well yeah, Heidi can back me up on this because
she was there too. But I remember remember being a
very you know, I was like five years old in
nineteen eighty five, and we both lived through this whole
Ryan White thing and there was a ton of hysteria
in the early days of the HIV outbreaks. I remember
being like a kid in elementary school and like we

(01:42:16):
were seriously confused, like we didn't know if like we
could even drink from water fountains any hair, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:42:23):
And stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
We like because the mechanism of transmission, I mean, we
didn't even really know about sex yet, but it was
it seemed like there was like it was unclear if
it was airborne or how exactly it could be transmitted.
And you know, I remember having a lot of anxiety
about that in school. I think back in my elementary
school stuff, and I think about like some of the

(01:42:44):
trauma events we had with like the Challenger explore explosion
and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:42:49):
But that was kind of up there.

Speaker 4 (01:42:51):
And I really liked basketball during this era and even today,
I'm as my football team is like partially owned by
Magic Johnson, right, It's like and Magic Johnson has had
like HIV needs for like forty years, And at the time,
it was like, Okay, this like titan of professional sports

(01:43:12):
has like been hit by this disease. So I guess
I'm trying to say here is that I very much
felt that taboo, and it raises a very interesting question
when you talk about twenty twenty and that event, like
how much is tapping into these old taboos, how much
of these old taboos were accurate but perhaps didn't track

(01:43:35):
with the right science, and how much erroneous science we
may have because it is in touch with a taboo
from our ancestors, like this gets into whole conversation about
whether or not, Like there are a lot of people
out there now who like straight out don't believe germ
theory because of what happened in twenty twenty have opted
for a understanding of terrain theory.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
I kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:43:59):
Subscribe to some sort of hybridized perspective at this moment
in time. Like, but it gets in this question about
what is prior is the is the religious system the taboo?
Does that facilitate the science or is the science driving
the taboo?

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Well in the occult rituals behind all of this stuff,
like the way they went about this, and and who's
in charge on both ends you bring up you know, Aids,
We got Fauci on both ends here, pretty sussy there.
He's you know, involved with both of these situations. Plus

(01:44:42):
they knew about it before, Like there's too much planned
stuff going on here on this one, even so far
as you know.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
Oh, you're going to have that in your presidency.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
Like they they've they've put this out there. This was
definitely something to roll out. As far as Aids, I
think they were, you know, doing two things. They were
trying to get rid of a certain people that they
didn't want, you know, necessarily around and you know, people

(01:45:14):
are saying that the poppers that they would take at
different clubs and whatnot were probably tainted, and it had
probably a lot to do with that as well, like
different you know drugs that were being made I mean,
heaven knows where they're being made at, like in somebody's
bathroom or something like, so bad.

Speaker 4 (01:45:31):
You know, there's some concern that the actual drugs that
were administered for people that passing positive were actually inducing, oh,
they were killing the disease. And it's getting a question
about the reliability of the PCR test that was used
really in both.

Speaker 2 (01:45:47):
In both epidemics, and the treatment is bad on both ends.

Speaker 1 (01:45:53):
Period. The treatment is scary.

Speaker 3 (01:45:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:45:58):
So yeah, I mean we can get into we can
get we can get into that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:04):
I'm kind of just thinking about.

Speaker 4 (01:46:05):
The cultural manifestation of it, But I know Jordan's gonna
have to weigh in on this.

Speaker 5 (01:46:13):
Well, earlier you were talking about how it's so obvious
we see all these things. Why is it so obvious?
Are they trying to usher in this evolution of human consciousness?
As Austic and Heidi pointed out, twenty twenty was an

(01:46:34):
exact replay of the exact same playbook with some slight
tweaks and a very similar cast beyond beyond just Fauci,
not just him. And it makes me wonder, Okay, perhaps
some of us are being sort of triggered or shepherded

(01:46:54):
in this expansion of consciousness. But also thinking about all
this attorney and imagery everywhere. Is this a dividing of
the wheat and the chaff?

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:47:08):
Is this a harvesting and delineating between those who are
awake and those who are not and those who are
not who I mean, this is sick, but like really,
it seems like those people are viewed as in human
or sub human. Even if you get into some of
the legal definitions of human being, it varies quite a

(01:47:31):
lot from dictionary to dictionary, law dictionary to law dictionary,
and in some instances they even say the human being
can be a monster in its lower form. And I
wonder if some of these rituals are almost about taking
implied consent or making the assumption that some people are

(01:47:55):
not advanced enough to give consideration to, to give autonomy to,
to allow them to make their own decisions, and instead
like sure, we can sigh up and program those people
because they're not getting it, they're not seeing it. We're
giving them all these opportunities to see it.

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:48:18):
I don't know, Like I really struggle with this because
this idea of like they have to it has to
be consent based. Well, like if that were true, I
think we're looking at a very perverted sense of the
word consent. But like, yeah, it's obvious to us, but
it's not obvious to a lot of people, even though
it was literally the exact same situation forty years later

(01:48:39):
and I didn't live through the first one. But like,
it doesn't take that much research to find all this
information that Austick kind of brought to the table. So
I don't know, it feels like this siphoning.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
Right right, there's a lot there.

Speaker 7 (01:49:00):
One other conspiracy thing. I think in context of India,
the it actually enabled a lot of digitalization in a sense,
like I think, I don't want to say this on
a public platform, but I think they're trying to, you know,
use India as an experiment to try out digital currency
and like CBDCs and something. So I'm like looking at it,

(01:49:24):
and I've known this since the pandemic because I'm suddenly
everyone is doing trash less transactions. You you cannot even
find printed money, like new notes are not being printed.
I see, Uh, it's a suppose a ten dollar bill,
a ten dollar one dollar bill.

Speaker 6 (01:49:41):
It's a low currency, so it's not being printed.

Speaker 7 (01:49:44):
And I'm trying to create an analogy, so it's the
lower currencies are not being printed.

Speaker 6 (01:49:48):
So this is I think that.

Speaker 7 (01:49:50):
Deliberate trying to roll it out, certainly discontinuing some notes
and you know, creating you know, problems with people. You know,
I think what they're trying to do is trying to
create you know, CBDCs NO.

Speaker 6 (01:50:05):
And there's a.

Speaker 7 (01:50:07):
Lot of there's a lot under the guys of the pandemic.
A lot of things happened in India. That's what I'm
trying to say.

Speaker 4 (01:50:14):
Yeah, there's not just one agenda. There's there's like a
hundred different objectives and all this stuff. So, I mean,
we had something similar happen here. We had like coin shortages.
No one really gave like, like why are we having
coin shortages in the middle of this. You know, I
would always go to the banks and be like why

(01:50:35):
Now they'd be like, you don't know. It's funny I mean,
it's it's kind of amazing, like how many people are
just kind of going through the motions.

Speaker 3 (01:50:43):
I know, we all know this.

Speaker 4 (01:50:44):
If you go if you were to go to a
bank right now and just ask people like who's on
the money, they couldn't tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
We're just man, I just work here.

Speaker 5 (01:50:56):
Well, never mind that they literally just make up the money,
even freeze medc's, even pre medc's. It's insane. Like I
thought I understood it, and then recently I've been going
into it deeper. I'm like, oh, this is even more
insane than I thought. Like literally every bank creates credit.

Speaker 3 (01:51:18):
Jorane is so passionate about right.

Speaker 5 (01:51:20):
I know, it's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:51:22):
I know, and I just know you could talk about
it for like three hours.

Speaker 5 (01:51:25):
Yes, but I had a coworker, Austick, who was in
India during all of that, and so you know, we
were chatting all the time, and like he literally could
I don't know if this was your experience, but he
literally could not leave his neighborhood without showing somebody a
smartphone with a QRR code and like had to be
cleared to travel.

Speaker 7 (01:51:45):
Yeah, that's that's that's what was happening. People are not
being allowed to travel. A lot of people got stuck
and they what they did was like, uh, they sent
a lot of people who were not able to go home.
They send them on the borders to you know, work
on projects there. The government was, you know, under the
guise of a pandemic. A lot of things were happening,

(01:52:05):
good and bad. But like I could see, the general
trend was like digitalized because it's a huge population, so
it brings a lot of people suddenly under the you know,
the all their things are.

Speaker 6 (01:52:18):
And then this new taxation policy.

Speaker 7 (01:52:21):
There's a lot of things happening in India very quickly
from it.

Speaker 6 (01:52:26):
Suddenly changed from you know, a very.

Speaker 7 (01:52:31):
Non transparent society to very quote and quote transparent society,
very digitalized. Everyone has a phone now. Everyone suddenly a phone. Rates,
phones got cheaper, Internet got cheaper, everything all all together.

Speaker 6 (01:52:45):
So it was like, oh, it's interesting.

Speaker 7 (01:52:48):
We could not even imagine because in twenty fourteen, I
used to have two G internet, so I used to
like buffer videos. I could not even watch videos. I
used to watch magic videos. And suddenly in two thousand
eight and it's like BORGI anything can work. And then
after that, oh, online classes now so things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:09):
No, it goes back to the elevator and to your wife,
like are you going to turn and face the way
the people are facing or are you going to be
the weird one and face is the correct, normal way
to get out the way you've always done it, or
are you going to give your wife up? Like they're

(01:53:30):
kind of done with the carrot and the stick. People
are kind of sick of it and now it's just
the stick.

Speaker 1 (01:53:35):
In my opinion, maybe it was pretty bad. Like I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:53:44):
Me and my husband, like I was ready to lose
my job and we bought a trailer and I said, like,
you can buy the trailer now because we might have
to live in it because I'm not doing it and
I'm not and I'm a nurse and I'm not. And
he was like, well, I'll do it, you know at

(01:54:05):
my job. I'm like, no, you're not. You know, he's
very athletic. That's the people it was. Isn't it funny
that that's the people that it was affecting. But I
was talking to people at my work that they were
just you know, and there was a specific population in
my experience that were having a harder time with it
than others, which was a brown population, and they were

(01:54:27):
immediately putting them on ventilators. And people were dying like
right and left, not because they had it, but because
they went in for treatment. And I have asthma severely,
like I don't have a little asthma, like I try to.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
Die all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
And I told my husband and we both got the
delta and it was awful. And I told my husband,
unless I'm going to die, you don't call the hospital,
and I will tell you when I can't talk anymore,
that's when it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
And I didn't go.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
So I mean, yeah, it's scary because it was that bad.
People were us not making it once they got treatment.

Speaker 7 (01:55:04):
It's it's interesting, man, I mean it's it was a pattern,
like anyone who went to the hospital they died. It's
like and you're not even allowed to see the person.
So it's it's like people were staying home, they were
treating themselves, drinking tea and everything, you know, like taking
in steam. They were staying alive, they were getting healthy.
But all the people who were being sent to the hospital,
they were dying, like no one came. Two or three

(01:55:27):
people of my family they died, you know, like my grandmother's.
So it was like weird in a way. So I
was like shaken, like what's happening here? Like sharing numbers.

Speaker 2 (01:55:38):
Scared Yeah, it scared me too, because when the cure
came out, it also seemed to affect a certain population
with very bad side effects and if and if not death.
Two people in one family, my friends and nurse. She
lost her mom to the disease. Her dad told them
to go get you know what, and left. He lived.
He's fine, they said, he a ventilator. He's like, no,

(01:56:01):
I don't, I'm going home.

Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
He was fine. She was not.

Speaker 2 (01:56:05):
And then her husband got the cure and he was
thirty four or something and he died immediately, like right after.

Speaker 7 (01:56:13):
So young people are getting hard rights. Young people are
getting heart attacks in India, like twenty five year olds.
They're getting heart attacks like normal simple living, no drinking,
no smoking or anything, just heart attacks all of a
sudden suddenly after the pandemic. So I'm like, I'm even
I'm paranoid from by from living alone. That's why I
stay with people. If I'm getting a heart attack, somebody

(01:56:35):
would be there to like a report.

Speaker 4 (01:56:37):
Yeah, scary, yeah, yeah, I yeah, it passed over me
so well, Geordani, if we rewind to the slide before that,
just want to look at some of these rituals are

(01:56:59):
involved with cleansing the and when you go into strange
places the Marai, the Maclay Coasts Australia, the Torres Jaws,
they would.

Speaker 3 (01:57:09):
Do a lot of these.

Speaker 4 (01:57:12):
I think it was a lot of like fire rituals
and things like that, and also these branch rituals where
they would bury the branch in order to cleanse it
and purification rituals with the Pacunas, the Western Africa, Western
Africa and India where there was head shaving and washing
and this. I don't know if Austik knows anything about
the Golden Yoni ritual, but ultimately the aim is to

(01:57:34):
restore purity. And if we go to Slight three sixty seven,
there's he talks about the tartar Can and the bechealage
and the Congo where strangers would pass through fires or
bay the received marks and talking about the the again
the enduring the peppers in order to neutralize magic, and.

Speaker 3 (01:57:59):
You know, I just I'm thinking about the ways that we.

Speaker 4 (01:58:04):
Were sterilizing things with these groups that went in there.

Speaker 3 (01:58:07):
You can go to the next slide.

Speaker 4 (01:58:08):
Jordan Still today, you know, I know people are like
just taking cans of liesaw and like wiping down everything,
et cetera, et cetera, like this this hypochondrisis that everybody
seems to have and the getting of marks and be like, okay,
this one's clean, and then just I threw there's I

(01:58:29):
think probably the best piece of art that came out
of the COVID period is this. Have you guys ever
seen this compilation of the of the nurses dancing set
to a very.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
No one was dancing.

Speaker 3 (01:58:40):
Look good.

Speaker 1 (01:58:41):
These are fake, but yes they're funny.

Speaker 3 (01:58:44):
Well do you think they're all AI generated?

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
I know, no what I'm dancing at my job? Yeah,
I don't know. But we all hysterically laughed about it.
We were like, A, we don't take lunch and B
when do people have time to do this?

Speaker 1 (01:59:00):
This is so weird?

Speaker 4 (01:59:01):
Yeah, what did you think of? Like what do you
think about when you see this? Because it was interesting.
I had a bat flot I had a bat fly
into my car in twenty twenty and I had to
get a rabies vaccine and I was and because it's
it's it's it's it's doled out in like four or

(01:59:21):
five different shots, depending on which guidelines you go by.
And so I was like going into the hospital around
here all the time, and it was pretty empty. Yep,
it was pretty slow, and I was like some you know.

Speaker 2 (01:59:38):
The only people that were downright full was me because
we're in psych And everybody got naked and got on
top of their roofs and waited for the rapture.

Speaker 1 (01:59:46):
And I'm not kidding, I don't know why you have
to be naked. The clothes will just fall off if
the rapture happened.

Speaker 2 (01:59:52):
So the police were bringing in an absorbent amount of
patience and I'm like, this is insane, literally, and these
are not people that would normally be there. These are
normal functioning people. Scared people literally to death.

Speaker 4 (02:00:08):
So yeah, so you so you weren't seeing a ton
of COVID cases or no.

Speaker 2 (02:00:15):
No, we had a lot of psychiatric cases our hospitals.

Speaker 1 (02:00:18):
Also.

Speaker 2 (02:00:19):
We would drive by just out of curiosity being in
the medical field, you know, drive by the little ers
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:00:25):
They were all empty. I can't say that we saw
a huge Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:00:30):
That's what I saw.

Speaker 4 (02:00:32):
And I compared notes with other friends who found them,
like I found themselves in the er. You know, they
their kid may have broken their arm, they had to go.
And I was just kind of making sure everybody was
seeing the same reality I was seeing. And that was
the universal report and the boats.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
Being sent to New York and all this that they
just stayed empty. And then I had friends that actually
contracted to go to New York to like ground zero.

Speaker 1 (02:01:00):
Now they were full.

Speaker 2 (02:01:02):
But also this was at the very beginning, but people
were just dying. I mean like as soon as they
got into the hospital, all of my friends that went,
they were like, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:11):
Everybody's dropped. They scared.

Speaker 2 (02:01:12):
That was actually really scary that first week because they're
sending us like emails like, oh yeah, everybody's dropping dead.
And and it's the treatment, not the disease. Like if
I can make it through it with one like one
lug completely almost damaged, like to the point I'm not
return and my other lung doesn't function as good and

(02:01:33):
horrible asthma my whole life, Like I take as many
Inhaler's as a COPD patient literally, and I was I mean,
was it good?

Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
No, it sucked. And I was super sick.

Speaker 2 (02:01:44):
But my husband was almost more sick than I was,
and he was not, like He's this healthy guy that
lifts weights all day all the time, that's all he does.
And so like he passed out and I literally had
to like grab his legs and pomp like lay him
down and pump his legs to get him to like
get enough blood pressure. I mean, he was scary. I

(02:02:06):
wasn't that as scary as he was, which was weird.

Speaker 3 (02:02:10):
So when I put these pictures up here of.

Speaker 4 (02:02:15):
You know, the story that I'm telling here is is,
you know, these these primitive practices that we see in
all these different cultures have not gone away. They just
reinvent themselves. And we need to have some somewhat of
a detached worldview when we see them manifests in our reality.
We need to be like, oh, it's that thing again

(02:02:37):
that's ultimately driven by these these antiquated notions of kingships
controlling this, you know, the entire universe and the sympathetic
magic and taboos that may be applicable to that given situation.
But you're but you're also on the inside of it too, right,
like being a trained nurse, Like you may look at

(02:02:58):
this stuff and go, this is absolutely necessary for us
in order for us to do proper medicine. So having
read this material and me putting that out there, like,
how do you how do you juggle that?

Speaker 3 (02:03:09):
I mean, what do you think is happening here?

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
All of the cures that I saw were not done
the whole reason why I was so against it, and
I sounded the alarm. Believe me, there are still people
that hate me because of the discussions I nicely had
with them. We were banned from our families. I don't
know that those relationships have ever come back a hundred.

(02:03:31):
All of the people that got those cures got very
sick immediately. We didn't get sick till later, later, later,
And you know, I feel like the cure nowadays is
not what has been They they greenlit it past every
safety precaution and there's nothing in any of these you know,

(02:03:53):
things to look at, any safety stuff, any side effects.

Speaker 1 (02:03:57):
Nothing.

Speaker 2 (02:03:58):
I actually refused to give. I refused to take one.
I told them it was against my religion.

Speaker 1 (02:04:04):
I was just done with it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:05):
I don't I didn't care anymore because it was not
done the proper way. Like, as you said, medical standards
are such.

Speaker 1 (02:04:13):
Blah, blah blah.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
But that's not how this went and it was not normal.
I didn't know at that time what it was, but
I knew it wasn't normal.

Speaker 1 (02:04:21):
So I was like, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (02:04:24):
Well, I guess the question I'm asking here, and I look,
I've been through all these conversations.

Speaker 3 (02:04:29):
I get it, and I think your story is very valuable.

Speaker 4 (02:04:30):
I guess what I'm trying to say is when we
look at it anthropologically and you see like the images
that I have here, which but you understand the scientific
utility of them, the theories that are driving them, right,
like why we were masking, why we are sterilizing. I
don't know what the scientific theory why we're dancing. Perhaps
joy makes it go away, I don't know. But how

(02:04:53):
do you feel about this analogy of saying this isn't
this is a continuation of these other observations that have
been made in an anthropological context.

Speaker 1 (02:05:03):
Oh, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (02:05:04):
I mean I knew there was something else going on
to your point, like not not just medically right, because
I didn't know why we were masking, because it doesn't
it doesn't work, And the Jama studies never aligned with
what they were doing, so that was My whole issue
was like, hey, wait, I don't care where you stand
on this, but like for me, this isn't aligning. So

(02:05:27):
ultimately I knew there was something else, like you said,
through the ages that was going on, there had to
be Did I know what it was? I had barely
woken up.

Speaker 1 (02:05:37):
This was my wake up call.

Speaker 2 (02:05:38):
This was the time where Heidi went, maybe I need
to figure this out, and that was what happened. And
I was enormy with like stupid stuff and Kim Kardashian
TV before that.

Speaker 4 (02:05:56):
Yeah, maybe one could say this, Maybe one could say
this is that when I make this analogy here, we
can keep there is like proven good science right that
ultimately justifies these practices when when appropriately called for. But
any profession, not just this profession, any profession, like if

(02:06:18):
it was some sort of crisis involving I don't know,
construction work or something like that, that costume can be
appropriated in order to perform these rituals, like it can
insert itself into it. Because I'm when I look at this,
I'm like, oh, you know what, that sounds a lot
like what happened in twenty twenty. Am I then going
to go and say like surgeons should never wear masks

(02:06:38):
or whatever when operating on somebody, Like, do I really
believe that like sterilization is like completely ineffectual all the time.
I'm not willing to make that claim, but perhaps now,
like other things we've talked about, it can be temporarily
hijacked for in order to continue a ritual that's been

(02:06:59):
at work since the beginning of time. And and it
just happened to manifest in this profession, but it could
manifest in other professions as well.

Speaker 1 (02:07:09):
Sure, yeah, I'd.

Speaker 5 (02:07:11):
Like to I'd like to bring it back to uh,
when we're talking about taking the DNA to space and
why might you take DNA to space? Well, why might
you tamper with everyone's DNA who cannot see what is
going on?

Speaker 6 (02:07:28):
Well?

Speaker 2 (02:07:28):
I found it interesting in your little slide stuff and
all that that it said the things that they were
concerned about were hair, nails and spittle aka spit. And
then this is the same timeframe where DNA tests were
like hugely popularized right before this was the timeframe and
what is that spit?

Speaker 1 (02:07:49):
And I found that, you know, I found that interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:07:54):
That is interesting.

Speaker 5 (02:07:56):
You might be into the movie I origins. I need
to rewatch it. I don't know if you've seen it
or not.

Speaker 1 (02:08:02):
I don't think, so check.

Speaker 5 (02:08:05):
It out if and when you have time, I'd love
to talk to.

Speaker 1 (02:08:08):
You chat about it. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, cool?

Speaker 3 (02:08:15):
All right, So let's look at some other taboos here.

Speaker 5 (02:08:18):
It looks like, man, this was Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:08:22):
I knew what I was. I should have known.

Speaker 4 (02:08:26):
I should have known. Austic knew. Always listen to at all. Right,
let's go to slide three sixty eight. I mean, I
think we can get through these pretty quickly, but I'm
happy to talk about them too. But this one's generally
about how air quote savages believe eating and drinking are
dangerous because the soul may escape through the mouth or

(02:08:47):
to be extracted by an enemy's magic. And we have
all these different examples from we have the the U
speaking people's.

Speaker 3 (02:08:55):
The Batoks, the Raua.

Speaker 4 (02:09:00):
But in general, right this like inspires like the monarch
to eat in seclusion. All the different permutations of this
right and the people can I think Austick even mentioned
the example of the one of the boy who saw
Where was that example? Do you remember which example that was?

Speaker 3 (02:09:17):
Us? Sick? Maybe the Luongo where? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:09:23):
Yeah, I think it was where the king cannot be
seen eating drinking under penalty of death uses and a
boy saw him eat and they had this dog like
tear him apart, and he justifies like he saw me
or whatever. Right, So we can't possibly have any sort
of demonic possession of the king when he's eating. That's

(02:09:44):
why it has to be isolated. I mean there's other
examples the Dahomi, the king hides behind curtains and handkerchiefs
during public drinking. Yeah, would any other ones jump out
to anybody? And maybe his house is relevant in our world?

Speaker 7 (02:10:07):
Like why do you think it's sort ofvant like, like,
do you have any ideas? I only have historical trivia.

Speaker 3 (02:10:16):
I'm done for some historical trivia.

Speaker 4 (02:10:18):
I mean, I hadn't thought about it's an immediate application.
I mean the first thing that came to mind was, George,
how do you probably remember this? You remember when Bush
Senior like vomited in Japan?

Speaker 1 (02:10:34):
Oh? Yes, yes, that was so bad.

Speaker 3 (02:10:38):
I don't know what's a really super relevant, but.

Speaker 1 (02:10:43):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3 (02:10:46):
Is there anywhere where people.

Speaker 4 (02:10:48):
I guess people don't like have their photograph when they're
eating because it makes them look they look silly or something.
I don't know, but I'm trying. I'm struggling to find
a modern application of this.

Speaker 1 (02:10:58):
How weird about it?

Speaker 5 (02:11:00):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (02:11:03):
It's unflattering.

Speaker 4 (02:11:04):
But I don't think anyone's like believes that the soul
is going to jump out of your body or get possessed.

Speaker 3 (02:11:09):
Or something like that while eating.

Speaker 1 (02:11:11):
What about I have heard that.

Speaker 2 (02:11:12):
In dreams though, that if you like that, there is
superstition if you're eating in dreams that can tamper with
the soul.

Speaker 4 (02:11:21):
So what about like the Queen of England did she
did she have meals on camera?

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
I think she did?

Speaker 5 (02:11:29):
Yeah, they always have these. They just showed us a
bunch of photos of Trump at the I forget.

Speaker 4 (02:11:36):
Oh yeah, yeah he was like wolfing down spaghetti like
while King Charles was talking.

Speaker 5 (02:11:45):
Yeah, they're all eating. And then we have the White
House correspondence to dinner. That's a pretty big deal that
they broadcast everywhere. So I don't know, maybe maybe it's
interesting the opposite.

Speaker 4 (02:11:58):
Yeah, it like makes it makes our politicians and rulers
like relatable, like ooh, like he likes pizza.

Speaker 6 (02:12:06):
Like me, Joe Biden, he was so fond of ice cream.
Oh yeah, the ice cream, every day ice cream. Where's
the new ice cream?

Speaker 7 (02:12:18):
I'm such an idiot and skids of mine. So I
keep thinking about the shining the ice cream and.

Speaker 3 (02:12:25):
The ice ice cream.

Speaker 6 (02:12:27):
Yeah, things like that.

Speaker 4 (02:12:29):
Well, you know what's interesting about Biden and ice cream
is that he he decided to quit his presidential run
on National ice Cream Day. So that's like the food
that he's most associated with, and it ultimately is like
connected with his I don't want to say downfall, but
his his.

Speaker 3 (02:12:49):
Determination, his political career. I mean, so maybe there's something there.

Speaker 1 (02:12:53):
I feel like was obsessed with ice cream as well.

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
Interesting, I think.

Speaker 5 (02:13:00):
And then in the good place, they've got the frozen yogurt.

Speaker 3 (02:13:04):
Yeah it is better.

Speaker 5 (02:13:06):
I mean I think that's the idea. They're like, oh
they can only have frozen yogurt.

Speaker 3 (02:13:10):
Yeah, I like.

Speaker 4 (02:13:12):
Me some fro yo like those big buckets, put some
gummy worms in it and stuff like that. But this
whole this thing with food, it gets I think it's
section four. We can skip ahead to it. We're breaking
all the rules here tonight. We can get a yeah,
we can go to section five taboos on leaving food over.

(02:13:36):
So like in many cultures, food remnants and dishes are
believed to retain a magical connection to the eater through
sympathetic magic, allowing sorcerers to harm individuals by manipulating these leftovers.
So there's always different cultures where people would have to
like burn their rubbish and their food so a sorcerer
couldn't get ahold of it. And then if you did
get the sorcerer did get a hold of it, you'd

(02:13:57):
have to buy your soul back or something, or make
sure he didn't do the charm on you so you
didn't get ill.

Speaker 6 (02:14:05):
Practical concern, Actually, someone poison the food.

Speaker 1 (02:14:11):
They did have tasters, Yeah, they did have tasters.

Speaker 3 (02:14:16):
That's a little different though. This is like after you eat.

Speaker 4 (02:14:19):
This is like you're done with your meal, you hand
it off to somebody and they've got the scraps the
spit though, the spit.

Speaker 3 (02:14:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:14:27):
So, I mean it happens here a lot. Actually, so
people they call it black magic are so.

Speaker 3 (02:14:38):
Tell us more.

Speaker 7 (02:14:39):
I mean, it's it's it's I think it's silly, but
you see it on roads.

Speaker 6 (02:14:44):
I mean, especially in this state.

Speaker 7 (02:14:47):
It happens like I suppose if a house has been
hit with some unfortunate events.

Speaker 6 (02:14:53):
They do this kind of you know.

Speaker 7 (02:14:57):
Fire, they lit a fire and they do around it
and then what they do is like they try to
capture the evil spirit in an earthen pot and then
they played the place that earthen part on the highway.
So what they think is like if a car hits
that part, the evil spirit will transfer to that car
the guy who's driving the car.

Speaker 6 (02:15:18):
So these kind of super it's.

Speaker 7 (02:15:20):
Just like crazy, so I have to like drive and
avoid these earthen posts. They keep it in the middle
of the road. They're like they want it gone, so
like unless somebody hates it. So it's like you know,
a game of tag in a way, you're it, you know,
it's like that's what they're doing.

Speaker 6 (02:15:38):
I mean.

Speaker 7 (02:15:39):
Also other things about food is like uh, with the
car system, people are not allowed to eat food together
in India, so like like it was more more like
spelled out in the past, but like now it's it's
people don't have this cars distinction anymore.

Speaker 6 (02:15:56):
It's basically about hygiene.

Speaker 7 (02:15:58):
But like back in the day peop but we're like
even if your shadow, like if you're a high cost
member and like you cannot step into the shadow cast
by a low cost person, so like they're considered like
they have been uh like made impure, so they have
to like cleanse themselves, you know, do these rituals.

Speaker 6 (02:16:16):
So there's a lot of weird.

Speaker 7 (02:16:18):
Things that comes with you know, like consolidating power in
such a small knit community and like trying to you know,
push people. It's I think it's a bullying that people.
They're bullying people and then internalizing these things in them
the moment the bone.

Speaker 4 (02:16:37):
There is like a like a good consequence though from
this like concern about food scraps being manipulated and therefore
being able to manipulate the individual. Fraser notes that this
actually encourages like socialized eating that that amongst people. Like
it's like when we decide to gather together and eat,

(02:16:57):
essentially when we all eat the same food, food we're
making we're kind of entering into a pack to not
like cast black magic on one another. It's kind of
like we're all eating the same food and if some
you can't take that scrap because it'll also be in you.
So if you try to do magic on me, you'll
be doing it on yourself. So it's actually like build
society in a way because because of I guess an

(02:17:23):
enlightened egoism.

Speaker 1 (02:17:25):
Then we're back to the Alfalfa club having dinner once
a year.

Speaker 3 (02:17:30):
Yeah, maybe that's where it came from.

Speaker 2 (02:17:33):
No, it didn't, but it's interesting. It's an interesting correlation
for sure. These big dinners too, other dinners.

Speaker 3 (02:17:41):
Yeah is it? Yeah? Yeah, Jordan? Did you want to
weigh in on this?

Speaker 5 (02:17:49):
I'm good.

Speaker 4 (02:17:51):
Yeah, I'm running out of real I'm running out of
like modern day applications of it. If I hadn't been
so focused on space, maybe I would have done a
better job. If we go back to three, we can
look at three seventy and three seventy one. I think
we can kind of call it a day there. There
are these other two sections from taboo acts. We had

(02:18:13):
the the the taboo on showing the face, So what
is going on there? I think it's kind of connected
to the eating and the having the mouth open.

Speaker 3 (02:18:37):
Do you guys, do you remember what they said here?
I'm I think I have my notes a little jumbled up.

Speaker 7 (02:18:43):
I mean, they covered their faces with bandages and mouths
so they cannot be they can only see their eyes
eyes of the h That was what being talked about.
Another thing about food. I remember in.

Speaker 6 (02:18:56):
Eyes Bit Shut.

Speaker 7 (02:18:57):
So there's this guy is Sandro Savos dull mon glass
in order to you know, seduce it or something conserted
in the book of all of It as you you
should if you want to like seduce a lady, so
you drink pulm one glass things.

Speaker 4 (02:19:10):
Like, right, right, right, that's a good example. Yeah, yeah,
But the covering of the face prevents the spiritual intrusion
often done with the eating. That's why these things are
connected together. Thank you for clarifying that, Austic. I'm sorry
as space there for a second. And then we have
this one on quitting the house. Right, So because of

(02:19:36):
all the different dangers out there, these kings were forbidden
from leaving their palaces or their subjects were prohibited from
seeing them. They're therefore reinforcing the isolation. So it really
sounds like it was a pretty unpleasant thing. I mean,
it's just kind of like a layer we learned about

(02:19:56):
this last time, or maybe two or three times ago,
where the kings had to look in a certain direction
and couldn't move and all these other things. But like
we're kind of getting a sense of just how how
many responsibilities how onerous the whole thing was, you think.
I sometimes I guess I like think about like, wouldn't
it be great to go back in time and be
like worshiped as like a god man or something?

Speaker 3 (02:20:17):
But no, this wouldn't be cool.

Speaker 2 (02:20:20):
Howard Hughes didn't meet most of his staff members, even
very important people to him. Most of them never met him,
and it was all just taken care of through specific
people that were allowed. I think he read this book
and I think they made him think he was, you know, king.

Speaker 1 (02:20:37):
I don't know something's up. There too many coincidences.

Speaker 3 (02:20:45):
I have to look into that. All my Howard Hughes
knowledge is coming from.

Speaker 4 (02:20:48):
You lately, Heidi. I, oh, yeah, yeah, they're fun.

Speaker 3 (02:20:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:20:56):
Well, I mean I feel pretty satisfied talking about the chapter,
the stuff that we covered today. I'm getting pretty hungry
and I gotta I gotta make dinner. Does anyone want
to close this out?

Speaker 2 (02:21:11):
It was a good one. It was in the in
the conspiracy community. This is called a real barn burner.

Speaker 1 (02:21:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:21:21):
Maybe maybe we'll be accepted by the wider conspiracy community.

Speaker 2 (02:21:25):
But it's fun. It's good to stay on the house
script as well. But yeah, you're safe.

Speaker 4 (02:21:33):
All right, well, thanks for joining me today, guys, I
appreciate it.

Speaker 6 (02:21:37):
Thanks for it was fun, good,

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