235. The Making of Madness & Murder

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Deplorable Nation.
I'm your host, Deplorable Janna, and today, ladies and gentlemen,
we are starting a brand new series and this one
definitely strikes my fancy because it is all things wild
were gross and questionably disturbing in a lot of aspects.

(00:26):
So this series that we're going to do is called
The Clan of Cuckoos. It is still going to be
medically related. However, today's episode we are diving into serial
killers in the making, and boy, oh boy, is there

(00:46):
some stuff. So welcome back, Welcome back, my beautiful bestie,
miss Heidi. How are you, darling?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Wonderful, wonderful, so glad to be here. And this is
also a my Ali. I think my first podcast love
was forensics. Uh, because women are were like that, right,
I don't know what's wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I wanted I always wanted to be in forensics. Yes,
if I wouldn't have gone into nursing, I would have
been a forensic pathologist because I think.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
They have forensic nurses too. They have forensic nurses, and
I thought about that for a while, but then yeah,
I guess I'm better with the real cuckoos. I no
I'm teasing. They're not cuckoo like this, They're just normal people, yeah,
more or less.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, And so, uh, the last time that you and
I talked, it randomly came up about you know, we
were talking about wanting to do serial killers and we
had literally both just watched the Netflix documentary called Monster

(01:56):
the Story of Ed Gain, And holy cow, if people
have not watched that, uh, it is disturbing and shocking
and all things interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh yeah, yeah. They took a lot of liberty with
that show, but it was still really wild, say that wild.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
It was definitely based on some truth. Uh, there was
quite a bit of truth in there, so it was
It's worth the watch if people are interested in that
kind of thing. So we are going to break down
several serial killers and what they went through, uh, in

(02:47):
their early lives, and what their families were like, and
what kind of things or diagnoses led them to stuff
that they do now or did.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
What made him? What made him cuckoo? Right? What made
what broke the whole shelf?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, exactly, But.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I think we start with old Eddie Boy, right.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yes, yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
So see that picture Okay, hold on, let.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Me pull it up there. We go. So honestly, he
this picture of Ed actually looks like the actor that
portrayed him on the Netflix show. They're very similar, very much.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
I think it's very strange that they see certain pictures
of him and you think, oh, he does look like
a monster. I have some others, but then you see
certain ones like this and you're like, wait, he dies.
I mean he looks like a normal guy, like he's
fairly handsome.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, very much so.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
So.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Mister Ed was born in Wisconsin in nineteen oh six,
so a long long time ago. His father was an alcoholic,
and he was abusive, and he was very domineering and
you know, all of the things, and his mother, who

(04:21):
ended up being the biggest player I guess in his life.
She was a religious fanatic. I mean she looks like
to the extreme, like cuckoo crazy on the fringe there.

(04:41):
She was fanatically moralistic and very domineering, and she taught
him and his brother that all women were evil and
impure and basically all can I say.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Horror, Yep, yep. She was wild about that. And she
looks like she's twelve here, but she's not. She was
like twenty something in this photo. But she seriously looks
like a child bride.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
I don't know very well, and I could understand that
she may, because if she was like a lot younger
than her husband, then I can imagine there was some
kind of you know, trauma that shaped her views as
well that you know, men are. She believed that everything

(05:35):
in the outside world, everything outside of their house, was evil.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yes, yep, yep. She was just going to keep them
boys there forever.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
I don't know about that as a parent, but to
teach his own you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, strange. Don't you never want to be too close
to your children, especially mothers to sons. Yes, it's going
to be close. However, almost all of these stories that
we're gonna talk about they have an over domineering mother
and a dad that's not being in the picture.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
And there's a lot of that. So because she was
such a fanatic and everybody outside of their household was
evil and crazy and the world was sinful and blah
blah blah, they grew up very isolated, so kind of
cut off from society, put in a box type thing.
So not really having that capability to have the interaction

(06:34):
with other people definitely shaped a lot of behavior, because
it's kind of like if you homeschool your kids and
they live with you and they don't ever socialize with
anyone else. Ever, Yes, that's a problem because they don't
know how to cope.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah. I always tell my husband, we watch a lot
of these shows about Alaska and it's beautiful, and he
always is like, Oh, that'd be so nice to live there.
I'm like, yeah, but kids, there's nobody else around you. This,
you know, breeds incests, It breeds weird fantasies and just
strange business. In my opinion, it's never good.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
So because Ed and his brother were not allowed to
socialize or anything like that or attend normal school events,
which they did go to school, but they were very
underdeveloped and developmentally slow, I guess you could say. And

(07:40):
part of that also lending back to not knowing how
to interact with people, so slow, no interaction, no socialization,
and the domineering force you know, in the use and

(08:01):
stuff like that, and his in the home and it's like,
it reminded me, did you ever watched Mommy Dearest?

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh? Yes, oh no wire hangers?

Speaker 1 (08:15):
So it's kind of like only mom knows best in
this situation. You can only trust your mom, can't trust
anyone else. And so, you know, leading through fear, fear
of the outside world, fear of other people, fear of

(08:35):
women because they were you know, harlots, and you know,
everybody was evil except except his mom, basically because his
dad ended up leaving, didn't he right?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, well, and I think she was kind of abusive
to him, honestly. They said he was just kind of
in the background, sorta like God, even when he was around.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
So because his dad was an alcoholic when they're when
they were growing up inside the home, even though his
mom was very fanatically religious, extremist type stuff, but there
was a lot of alcoholism, which led to a lot
of abuse, and and so that was a big contributing

(09:27):
factor to problems as well.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And he had a he had a physical disability his eye.
I don't know if you can see it here, but
he had like this growth on his eye, I guess,
and it pushed it down a little. I didn't think
it was as severe as some people say, but I mean,
I guess. You know, it's going to affect things.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Which kids are mean, and so even if they noticed
the smallest thing, they're going to be picked on. It
kind of looks like his. Maybe the pupils a different
size as well.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I think it's this hood here that pushes like over.
But I mean it's not I'm not trying to be
a jerk. I'm sure it's made him suffer, but ah,
in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it
was the worst thing ever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
So, because his mom was like, sex is evil, women
are evil, They're all harlots, blah blah blah. After she
After his mom died in nineteen forty five, that's when
Ed like really started to spiral out of control, and

(10:40):
he was so obsessed with his mother because his mother
was like the only figure in his life because his
dad left, his brother left home because he couldn't take
it anymore. He wanted to, you know, get away and
try to have his own life and.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Like that.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
So Ed became super obsessed with his mom and didn't
know how to cope when she passed away because it
was like he needed to do anything and everything he
could do to try to keep her, which is where
his creepy killing spreeze and dismemberments and making skin suits

(11:29):
and making furniture out of people and stuff came about was.
And that's where Psycho the movie Psycho came from, is
that he was trying to keep her and preserve her.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yes, And these are some gloves that he made, and
their hand gloves. This is a recreation of a mask.
He would have made. Most of the things that you
see out there, even like the nipple belt. All this
weird stuff their recreations because actually they a lot of
it was destroyed and so they well not that although

(12:09):
I'm sure they have stories.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Although he made a sign go too.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
You know, he's got well you know, there's some skeletons
in that closet and this is how he was living
in a squalor. But his mom's room was perfect to
your point, he like sealed it.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, and his mom was like very meticulous and stuff
like that. And it wasn't until well even watched the
Netflix show, even like after she died. That's when he
started with the obsessive compulsive disorder. And I could tell
you my dad had the same thing. Happened to him.

(12:51):
My sister passed away and my dad became massively OCD
with hoarding and stuff like that because it's their tendency
to try to hang on and clutch on to whatever
they came, and I mean everything saving He would save
like all of the cans from you know, like the

(13:13):
beans that he would eat or whatever, and he never
threw them away. They were literally piled in the house.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I just splashed that really scary page. I just slashed
the really scary picture we were debating on putting on
here or not. So yeah, hopefully, I don't know. I mean,
we've showed some pretty gruesome stuff, so it's yeah, it
is what it is.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
We didn't dwell on that really long because you know,
that would be a giant ding from us, and.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
So I didn't mean to do that.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's all right. So Ed was infatuated with exhuming bodies
out of the cemetery, and this is where his uh
fetish fantasy hyper sexualization started to take place, where it

(14:13):
was women that he would exhum because he was trying
to recreate his mother and doing the skin suits and
trying to have intercourse with corpses.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Say he never did. So there is a lot of
controversy on the necrophilia for him, they say, And I
don't know, Like I definitely wasn't there, so you know,
it is what it is. But they say that he,
you know, was just wanting to make things to make
himself like part of her. But then he started doing

(14:53):
this weird you know stuffing chairs. This one, this one
in particular, is real and it says, oh, it's the
detectives removing it from the house. And I didn't feel
like this one was too terribly terrifying other than the
fact that we know, I mean, we know what it is.
But there were all kinds of things, and actually I

(15:15):
guess they took photos of it all and then destroyed
the photos, like as soon as or the evidence had
kept the photos, that's right, because it was so bad
they didn't want it and they're like anywhere.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Which again Ed Guyness, who not only Psycho was modeled after,
but Texas Chainsaw massacre, you know, with the skin mask
and the whole nine yards. But you got to give
it to Ed. He was very creative.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Chairs, the nipple belt.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff there.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
It's something we'll say, yeah, very strange.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
So because he grew up so isolated and stuff like that,
it was very hard for him to find a job
keep a job, so he only worked really small, insignificant
things and he lived alone on their farm, so he

(16:21):
had a lot of time and a lot of property
to live out his fantasies, you know. And I think
one of the things that comes to mind with him,
not just with his fascination with his mother and trying
to recreate or rebuild his mom or whatever, is the

(16:48):
fact that he can't he And I don't know if
this is true or not, but like on the Netflix show,
it showed him like befriending that girl town and he
was trying to have a relationship with her, but and
she was kindy of as crazy as he was.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Right, I have a picture of her. I don't know,
they didn't portray that so amazing. This is the woman,
and they portrayed her in the film as this beautiful
twenty something girl girl. Yeah, and she's not. They basically
started dating off and on when she was like in
her late thirties that she's almost fifty, when the height

(17:32):
of it is all happening, like there was no young
girl there. So I do think this lady had her
own troubles from what I've read, but this is the
real her.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, she looks kind of crazy to me.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Anybody that says I can't marry you because I don't
know if I can live up to your standards. After
she's been in the house and seen it, how I
have questions.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
She makes you wonder how she lived. M mmmmm, yeah.
I think this is where like his fascination with uh,
like fantasizing about being a woman, Not that he wanted
to turn into a woman, but like taking liberties with

(18:20):
like women's clothing, women's panties, brawls, you know, stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
He did do some really crazy stuff, like he kept volvas.
He had a whole bunch of dose. This is a recreation,
so we don't need to get our panties in an
uproar here. It's not real people. So these are like
the recreations of the bulls he made, and of the
nile suit, yeah, nipple belt, booby skin suit. They said

(18:54):
he picked the lady he picked because she had great knockers.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
So, m I don't know, well, and I don't know
about that.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
He wanted to crawl inside of his mother, but I
don't think he wanted to. He even they asked him,
did you have sex with the corpses? And he's like,
well they stink, So I don't know. I mean only
he knows the truth, but just saying. So.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
His medical diagnoses are are many. So he was schizophrenic,
the paranoid type. They diagnosed him when he was actually
captured and put in the state hospital. He exhibited delusions,

(19:46):
auditory hallucinations, distorted sense of reality. He claimed to hear
his dead mother talking to him a lot, telling him
to do thing, or telling him that, you know, like
this friend of his, this female friend of his, like

(20:08):
trying to get hur to late leave the house and
stuff like that. So he had chronic psychosis, had psychotic
breaks from reality. He believed he could become his mother
by wearing the skin of women that he exhumed. It
also said grave robber psychosis. So that's a new one.

(20:32):
I've never heard of that terminology before. But okay, severe I.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Just pot regular because I didn't I couldn't find that right.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
So he had a severe identity disorder. He didn't you know,
processing in his brain the lower spectrum of intelligence and whatever.
I can understand a little bit of confusion going on.
And it's said necrophilia and gender dysphoria tendencies undiagnosed but noted.

(21:10):
And so some of it, said police evidence are found
evidence suggesting that he did perform sexual acts on corpses,
So whether he did or not is up in the air,
we don't know. And then the gender confusion because he's

(21:31):
like panties and fascinated with nipples and vulvas and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
He's just keeping them in a box. He didn't do
anything dirty.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Gee, yeah, Okay, he just whacked him off and kept
him in a cigar box.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Whatever. Yeah, that sounds totally normal. Sounds way better NOLP.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
So he also had extreme OCD so obsessive compulsive disorder
for people who don't know what that is. And so
that went along with the exhamation of the bodies, the
crafting the furniture, ritualistic acts like cutting off the vulvas
all the time, cutting off the nipples all the time,

(22:14):
and compulsive repetition syndrome. So he had a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
He had some situations. Yeah, the horror house got burned down,
just for people that may want to know what happened. Uh,
they were gonna start selling tickets and making it a
worldwide wonder. And the guy that found his mom in
the picture that we briefly skipped over, that really happened.

(22:46):
The detective that walked in on that garage. That was
his mother strung up like a deer. So I dare
say he had something to do with that. I would.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I wonder if he actually he really did do that
auction they did.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
I verified that they did, yep, and then it got
shut down. Could you imagine buying a knife from Ed Gain? Like,
I don't think I would use that.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
I am in the in the market for a good
booby belt or skullbel Oh.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, I think they had those things, but they're really
you know, it's a lot. That's a lot there.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
So it even showed like in the Netflix thing when
Alfred Hitchcock was you know, going to make Psycho or whatever,
and they were basing it on the Ed Gaines story,
and so they took an actor supposedly into Ed Gain's
house or whatever, and that's when I found like the

(23:51):
box of Volva's and whatever, and the guy was like
completely freaked out.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, I would be so.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Alfred Hitchcock was the like pioneer for serial killer creepy
type movies like that.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
So bad, scary, scary, scary. It's something. The pictures are
out there if you guys want to find them. They're terrifying.
Just FYI. And he did live out the rest of
his life here and this place is still running, Janet,
I was shook as I just did a story on
ed Gain and this place is still like running, which

(24:36):
is wild.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
It's kind of like that show that we did a long, long,
long time ago with all the institutions that you know,
did all those experimentations on people. Yeah, so he was
called the butcher playing field. He was. Actually he died

(25:00):
of respiratory failure due to complications from lung cancer and
liver cancer in the facility, you know, after he was arrested,
but they said he was declared legally insane unfit for
trial in nineteen fifty eight after they finally arrested him.

(25:25):
He spent over a decade in the mental institution before
being found competent to stand trial in nineteen sixty eight
because he was guilty but insane.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
I think it's funny that there would ever be a
question of that.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Well, you know, it's funny because doing the research on
these other people, every single one of them after him
have all been declared legally sane because they all knew
work from wrong. So they were all made to stand trial.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
They do say he he was very well behaved and everything,
like the best patient ever. And this guy came and
did a big autobiography of his life and had all
these tapes and he freaking lost him my ass, he did.
I don't know what's on those tapes, but you better
cough him up, sir.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
M hm, Yeah, I'm sure it disappeared, like all the
NASA information about how we went to space.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
So our next, our next lovely individual is mister ted
Bundy born now and.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Teddy Boy is a Mormon. You know, yeah, he knew,
but he is. And there is going to be mormon
tized almost every one of these lovely people, not mister Gan.
I couldn't find anything on mister Dean, but there's some obfuscations,
some big stuff. But Ted's was out there and actually

(27:13):
they helped him with his defense, so they really liked him. Well.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Shock and all these all the serial killers that we're
going to talk about today definitely have one common denominator
outside of their upbringing and stuff like that. But it's
like religious fanaticism.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yes, And this is my favorite picture of.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's any boy that must have been during the trials
when he was defending himself.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
He was so cool. Yeah, he was his own attorney. Yes.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
So he was born in nineteen forty six and Vermont.
So his mom was raised believing that he was raised
believing that his mom was his sister.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
I am my own grandpa comes to mind. It's not
a good thing. It's grew's kids up, y'all.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, So it's a that's definitely going to play into
the psychosis of what's wrong with him, because he didn't
find that out until he was like in his adolescent stages.
And then what do you do with that? Because back
in the day, it's not like you went to counseling

(28:38):
or therapy or families would talk through problems or whatever.
So it's kind of like, here's this big bombshell. That's
not your sister, that's your mom.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
And it might have been that his dad was his grandpa,
like the dad his Yeah, that's what they say.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
And so he was primarily raised by his mother's parents,
so by his maternal grandparents. His grandfather reportedly again made
him fearfull of women, calling them dangerous and immoral, kind
of like in the aadgang story. So that was creepy.

(29:24):
His mother was emotionally unstable obviously if she's pretending to
be a sister. So because of all of these different,
you know, things that were going on in his childhood,
he had feelings of illegitimacy because he didn't feel like
he belonged anywhere or to anyone. Nobody wanted him, nobody

(29:48):
wanted to claim him. Very shameful because of course those
are big family secrets, right, you can't share that with people.
And he had abandonment issues, yeah, because she, I guess.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
She kept taking off.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, she was in and out of like mental health
facilities and stuff frequently. So he was also very shy
and introverted and socially awkward, kind of like Ed was,
although later on he developed a huge ego. Right, he

(30:29):
was very narcissistic. He thought like the sun wrote and
sat with himself like nobody was as smart as he was.
So very very narcissistic and very good at manipulation techniques,
which I.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Thought this picture says it all.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, that's true, because he did have a lot of
ladies interested in him because he was a good looking guy.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
But let's be real, that unibrow though I don't know
about that unibrow tad from that up.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Goodness sake, sir, well, I don't think back in the
early eighties, I don't think they had the waxing stations
or the flossing stations for the eyebrows at the mall.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
You just got to get out the old tweezers because
he had a situation at hand and it needed to
be dealt with, for sure. But yes, he was quite strange.
Let alone the fact that he was a necrophiliac.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
This one, yeah, which his early signs that there was
a problem.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
He was.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
A peeping tom. He started out as a peeping tom
and he went from there developed a fascination with pornography
and then evolved into sexually violent fantasy. And I will
tell people, if you watch porn, and I'm not judging

(32:07):
for people who do, but here's the thing. Porn is
not realistic and it's not real life. And the aspect
that that's not how a considual sexual relationship goes and
and a lot of boundaries are crossed, and and there's
that's not a normal thing.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Definitely definitely not very.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Scary, you know, So being raised that women were evil
again and then and then kind of discovering his on
his own being able to peep through windows, and then
the fantasies from you know, violence and stuff escalated from
the porn things. So what kind of porn was he watching?

(32:54):
Because rights rampant back in the day like it is now,
where you could literally any kind of genre that you
wanted to watch.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yep, you had to get it was kind of like
the dark, seedy side of things. And I love this
picture because this is when they're comparing his bite. This
is what nailed him. I guess he had some weird teeth, man,
I mean, they do look kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
So he was definitely educated. He studied psychology at the
University of Warshington, Washington. He was intelligent, he was articulate.
He was really good at the manipulation game and stuff.
But he was because he was so narcissistic and so

(33:39):
confident in himself and had such an error about him.
He even worked on political campaigns and in law related positions.
I'd be interested to know, like whose political campaigns he
worked on?

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Right, yeah, no kidding, o h this is after he escaped.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
He was a Houdini because he escaped multiple times and.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
He feels like they let him do it. I sort
of feel like they were like, we'll look over.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Here, especially like the documentary on him too, where it
was like, you know, he was he was in a
room in the courthouse or something, and and the cops
like went out in the hall or whatever, and he
escaped out the window. Yes, that was I believe that

(34:37):
was in Utah that that happened.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
And he broke his ankle. Yeah, that's why I say
I think they let it go. Was it Utah or Colorado?
I can't remember, but it was somewhere out here where
it makes sense because I'm like, yeah, they look the
other way. I don't know about that story. That story
sounds crazy, but whatever.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
So he always targeted young women again and so they
often resembled like a specific type. He had, like a
specific type at the beginning, which which they say was
related to his first female crushes. I guess from his

(35:16):
peeping tom days.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Brown hair, brown eyes, and slight kind of there was
one badass girl from Utah that escaped off.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
So, because he was uber good at being manipulative and
outsmarting people and he was a good looking guy, he
often faked injuries or car trouble or you know, things
of that nature to get people to help him. So

(35:51):
he was kind of like playing a victim before he
actually made his victims, which I find.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
And he would have got me, dude, I would have
helped somebody to their.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Car, would both.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I'm like, damn it, Yeah, he would have got me,
which I think evens I'm too tall and I don't
have brown hair and brown ice, but.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, I don't have straight so I don't think i'd
fit in that category either.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah. No, this is right before he died too, with
the FBI agent.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
So this is uh, says Killer's last photo Sarah Killer.
Ted Bundy is giving a statement to Supervisory Special Agent
William haik Meyer, now retired from the FBI. Photo take
in January twenty third, nineteen eighty nine, one of the
last photos of Bundy. So this was going on literally

(36:49):
when I was in high school. Excary, that's the you know.
I graduated in nineteen eighty nine, and so I remember
like watching the story is about Bundy on the news
literally all the time. There was always some kind of update.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
My mom, my mom's friend actually was from Utah here
that did get taken. Your first name was Debbie, but
I can't remember Hunter. She was the one from Bountiful
just for people that follow the case. But my mom
was tiny and had brown hair and brown eyes, and
so she was pretty flipped out after all that happened,
and she was at that time frame, so.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
I absolutely would be too.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
So, because he studied psychology and he knew about long
stuff and whatever, he was very planned organized and and
scheduled in his victim selection and how he methodically planned

(37:51):
out each one of the things. They weren't randomized.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
So he reminds me, oh of Israel keys and Israel
keys is another one that was Mormon. It just it's yep.
I don't know, but is that a thing these Mormons?
You know? I will give it to him. He is
the ultimate ladies man because he knocked this lady up

(38:18):
in prison. I don't even know. But his daughter should
come out because that would be the best thing ever.
Just go to a random location and like off you
skate like most everything, and just tell your story bro
like that. That would be awesome.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Well, he was married for a while as well, wasn't He.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Was feeling her lady. He was engaged to a Mormon
and that's why he became Mormon. And she had a daughter,
but this is his biological daughter. She had a daughter,
and and that daughter said he was super nice and
always really like good with her, so weird. And this
one he got against the coke machine or something, and

(39:08):
again look they looked away, they looked that. I it
was actually in the middle of the meeting room where
everybody was and so I'm just saying, like that is
bananas to me, But you can't tell me that somebody
didn't know what was happening there, like you're not getting

(39:29):
a coke.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Let's be real, well, and looking at his victims and
looking at this lady, the only thing she has in
common as dark eyes, because to me it looks like
she has red hair.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, this one came along after he was in prison
already and she was like a super fan and weird.
So I mean, he probably had to take what he
could get, but this is his legit daughter and they
named her Rose. Well, so knocked up at the coke machine.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Being that he was very like narcissistic and whatever. He
was very attention seeking and very you know, like wanted
the media attention. And I think that's why, like he
kept escaping because that's more publicity for him. Right, It
just like built his ego and even when he was

(40:22):
defending himself in court because because he worked in law stuff,
he thought he was smarter than attorneys or whatever, and
he was like everybody else is dumb and he's superior.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, he definitely had that one hundred percent for sure.
And I mean it just goes to go to this
narcissistic psychopathic definition. He is all of those things.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
So you have to read this one.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Sure. Narcissist and psychopaths are by definition antisocial and tend
to gravitate to crime. Like you said, they are over
represented it in all manner of criminal activities, from white
collar maleficans and securities fraud to violent felonies. Among serial
and mass killers, what in their psychological makeup renders them

(41:13):
prone to such self destructive and self defeating pursuits, So
you know, they're full of theirselves basically like you said.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, and being a narcissist, they get that mindset like
I'm never gonna get caught because the police are too stupid.
So one of the serial killers who we're going to
talk about later had the same kind of mindset where
he literally taunted the police all the time, sending them

(41:43):
detailed diary notes, you know, photographs, tons of stuff, and
it's like, you're never going to.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Car They're going to catch you more on because I'm.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Smarter than you. He did finally get caught, but yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Know, it's funny to me that they think they're always
going to not get caught, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, So that's the thing. So mister Bundy confessed to
thirty murders across multiple states, although that number may be higher.
That's all that they could actually get out of him.
So he was arrested multiple times in the seventies, often

(42:27):
escaped off or manipulated legal proceedings. He was arrested in
nineteen seventy five and Utah, escaped from jail twice and
committed not doing your job, you idiots. Committed more murders
after he escaped in Utah. Then he was caught and

(42:51):
went to trial in Florida from nineteen seventy nine to
nineteen eighty. He was convicted of murder, kidnapping, and sexuals.
Even though like when he was defending himself in court, Uh,
he was arrogant and you know, thought he was really

(43:13):
sly and all that stuff, and he was going to
get out of things.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
But didn't he didn't. You didn't, boy, you didn't get out.
You know, I think it's just hysterical. The thing that
hung him is the bite. The bite mark so funny
to me. Well, and then mounting on that teddy boy.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
That is because he not only psychopathy, uh no, empathy,
guilt or remotes. He was narcissistic and he was into
sexual sadism. So why not just go ahead and bite
your victims?

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, and he was he was a corpse h mm hmmm.
Do you were? We'll say it that way.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
To go and turn.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
I don't care what circumstance you have that is not okay,
I don't care. I don't care how lonely, sad, picked on,
psychotic you are. You leave the dead people alone.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Well, there are a lot of places, not so much
in the United States, but like even in Canada has
certain laws where they can charge you additionally for defiling
a corpse.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Good. Yeah, of course we don't do that here, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
And we've got a lot of serial killers, although not
as many or we don't hear about them in the
news as much as we did during that particular period
of time.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Right right, And you know, I feel like this was
like the leftover of the MK Ultra I swear like
and the Wars And I don't know what you know me,
I always think they're creating weird gollum children, and tests
too was in crazy shit. But whatever. People can think
what they want. I'm just saying for a while there
there was a lot of people without souls.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Well, and during this period of time, there were so
many serial killers, like tons and tons, And how often
do you hear about that on the news now.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Because anymore?

Speaker 1 (45:23):
What has changed?

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Oh? The reporting, that's all I think.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
I think because we're too distracted with political stuff and
whatever to.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
I think they've all seen what happens. And also, by
the way, nowadays, you're never going to get up and
get out of there and jump out a window or
make it with no forensic evidence. I don't care if
you shave your whole body and your eyebrows off and
wear a weird skin suit, I don't care what you're doing.
You're gonna get caught. It's the DNA databases. I think

(45:57):
that's what'sloaded down along well.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
And they have actually caught a lot of serial killers
that were earlier than this set of them because of
things like ancestry ancestral DNA or twenty three and me
or whatever, because if anybody in your family submits that DNA,

(46:22):
your DNA is in that line, so they can find you.
And so that's how a lot of these people got
caught because there was one I can't remember what his
name was, but it was like from the fifties to
like nineteen seventy four or whatever, where he had killed
like like one hundred and sixty people and they finally

(46:44):
caught it because of somebody and his family submitted DNA.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Oh yeah, I think that was something the California and
the Semen State killer. The Yeah, I remember that one,
and you know you're going to get caught. So I
think that's kind of curbed the whole cuckoo. You know,
it used to not be quite as prevalent to get caught.
I guess I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
But so it says that he died in nineteen eighty
nine because he was actually put to death in the
electric chair.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yeah, they fried him. I remember when that happened to
My grandpa was like fry am yep. I was like,
oh my gosh, Grandpa, that's not nice. He's like nah,
he deserved. I was like, all right, all right, calm down.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Well, he was one of those people that was very
highly studied because he was such a unique case, because
a lot of these people were like lower IQ and whatever.
But he was able to hold a job. He was
very articulate, he was very intelligent, and so that made

(47:54):
him very different in then because of his showmanship when
he was defending him self of trial and stuff like that.
Anytime somebody would interview him or whatever, you know, he
just said.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
That he didn't get it. Yeah, he didn't fit the profile.
You know, they say this, but then we're going to
talk about multiple other ones that also didn't fit the profile.
So I don't think they know as much as they
think they know. I think there's a lot of these
crazy cuckoos that can go about looking like they're at church,

(48:31):
fluting teddy.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Boy, it's the church, same the church famous, very president
and all of these.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, very concerning, especially our next one. The church theme
is obfuscated. In fact, this whole time we've been chatting
up trying to find the name, so I can give
the name, and I can't find it. So and I'll
explain why here in a minute. But when you own
the DNA sites, it's real easy to make names go
away one percent.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
So the next one is John Wayne Gacy.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
So this picture is fantastic. I have to say. This
is what he got married in, this red devil suit,
this wife of his, this is last name Meyer, and
this is the KFC family that he worked for. Funny
thing is they were Mormon, and you cannot find the

(49:26):
name of these people, Like I've been searching for at
least four hours to find his father in law's name,
which shouldn't be that difficult. We have her name, Nope,
try and find it. I have I put in the business.
And when it was like who owned this business nineteen
sixty four, blah blah, blah blah, all the things, it
just says KFC. Yeah, No, I happen to know because

(49:48):
I read a book about it and I can't remember
where it was. But they were Mormon, and so another
Mormon in.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
The box men Weird Jack. That's a show, Yeah and weird.
He's such an interesting one and the documentary series on
him is absolutely fascinating because he's another one that uh
church goer family man, you know, living a double life

(50:18):
and the whole nine yards and a pillar of the community.
Everything about him would be like, oh no, it couldn't
be this guy like and that's why he got away
with us for such a long time, because he was
very high up in the UH political arena, kind of

(50:48):
like being protected almost like Cadmasonic ties, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
If I remember correctly. I got to look it up. Yes,
but he was deaf. Nelly dialed in and this father
in law, like I said, do you want to talk
about obfuscated? It shouldn't be hard to find a dead
guy's name. This guy is probably dead, you know, can't
find it. But we know that Colonel Sanders daughter was
very involved with the Mormon church, and there's a whole

(51:16):
thing about the Colonel Sanders, and you guys can look
it up. It's real.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
So we didn't want to tarnish that family's name with
his right.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
I'm sure that's it, And all it says everywhere is
his father in law, his father in law. I don't
even think this is their real name, because you should
be able to find a name. I doubt it. I
don't think that's the real name.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yeah, so's it's not h They don't have that information anymore. Because,
like I said, they don't want that family tarnished and
they don't want the brand to take a.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Hit, right right, exactly. Yep.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
So this guy was born in nineteen forty two in Chicago, Illinois.
He was known as the Killer Clown. He murdered at
least and this number I find highly interesting as well.
Thirty three.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yes, of course, of course it was thirty.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Three boys, and he buried a lot of them in
the crawl space under.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
His house where his family lived.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yes, and even had other young men helping dig out
the crawl space under the house, and then they would
wind up under the house as well.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
That is so insane. This is little Johnny when he's young.
He still looks pussy and weird. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah, he looks like he's in a really bad mood.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Great, Yeah, he's like, man, my suit's too tight.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
So it says that his father again was abusive and controlling.
Reportedly he beat you know, John Wayne Gacy and his mother.
His mother was a passive person, so she struggled to
protect him from the abuse, so she probably knew what

(53:22):
was going on. And she's not a say something, say
something person. She's like, I'm going to go along, to
get along, so was she allowed everything to happen? He
was married, He had two children from the first wife,
did he not?

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yes, these are the kids here, and these are the ones.
Maybe this is why they're obfuscating the family name. But
I will tell you, guys, there are rumors it is
Colonel Sanders himself. I don't know about that one. I
do know that the guy was Mormon and affiliated, and
so was Colonel Sanders daughter. And there's a lot about

(54:00):
her and being Mormon.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Very weird.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
So he was married to her, and if I remember
the story correctly, like she ended up leaving him and
he moved somewhere else and he wound up didn't he
get married again?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
I think he was married a total of three times. Yeah,
is what I saw. So weird. Yeah, uh, he was
married to this Myers girl, which Marilyn Meyers. I don't
think that's your name. I'm sorry, lady. Maybe she's still alive.

(54:40):
I don't you know. Maybe, I mean it's his kids,
So I could understand.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Changing the name a little bit.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Yeah, yeah, I get that part because but it says
you know that that that was the first one and
they did welcome a daughter and a son, and then
the next one, let's see if I have the name.
She said she filed for divorce and sole custody of
the kids, so she and they never saw him again,
so clearly.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Something obviously she knew something was up.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
He was accused of assaulting a fifteen year old boy,
that's what.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Nothing ever came of it.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
M hm, And so that would make me leave.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
She left, and I think he moved and then he
married somebody else that I think her dad was a
pastor or something.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Carol Hoff is the next one, mother of two daughters
in nineteen seventy two, and she did testify during his
murder trial that he was bisexual. So I mean whatever,
They're like, Okay, we already kind of know that he'd
already been in trouble, you know, with this whole thing

(55:57):
with the boy, and then one more there was one
more wife after that. But I can't imagine living in
there and not smelling something like I don't know, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
I would be like, is there a dad animal in
the wall or something, because during the timeframe that this
was I don't think that lime was a thing where
you get lime to kill the smell.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
I don't know. I would think so, because even Geen
had it. But I mean, there's only so much you
can do with these tiny spaces. We're talking so small,
and these are real photos. I didn't feel like these
were so gruesome. So I mean, yes, there is some
one here that are a little shocking, not any as

(56:48):
shocking as the one with Geen, But this is them
actually finding the bodies and taking them out what was
left of them and when he was arrested. And I
also have some in the crawl space and it is
so very small that I'm like, I don't know, I mean,
how did you fit all those It just seems like

(57:10):
a lot. This is the space, dude, Like, I mean,
I can't even imagine what these poor cops the cops.
His face says it all. I'm in a zooman poor
guy's face and this guy's asses in his face.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Yeah, And that's the thing. Is like on the documentary
that I watched, Like I said, before he was he
he had some people buried down there, and then he
would hire people under the rooms of construction job and
he would, you know, have them come to the house

(57:46):
and dig out more space under under the house and
there's crawl space which should bury more bodies.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
And yeah, it's banana to me. This one always bothered me.
I remember this one from when I was younger, and
I remember thinking, how do you have all these people
under you? Like you have a graveyard, a real one,
you know, like this is crazy to me, and it
really happened.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
So yeah, and it's not like that house is huge.
That house is very are and you know, like you said,
the smell and all of that stuff. So I don't know. Yeah,
So his childhood marked by again domestic violence, strict discipline.

(58:38):
So he was another one that was really shy, very introverted,
socially awkward and experience feelings of powerlessness because of the
violent household and his mom wasn't helping or doing anything
and basically standing by and watching his dad like you know,

(59:02):
waylay everybody beat everybody and stuff like that. So I
could understand how that would His tendency was towards males
because I couldn in like the deep seated like disrespect
or disregard for male life because of what he went

(59:24):
through with his father.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
But then it's weird because he was attracted to it too.
But I see that a lot when they don't have
the fathers. Like they said, the mother's the only one
that cares. Then the father doesn't seem to approve. It
ends up weird like this. So don't enmesh with your
kids people. It's not a good idea. It's a bad plan.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
So this guy, because he was a shriner and because
you know, he was living a double life and trying
to fit into society and whatever, and that's why they
didn't catch him for uber long time. He performed as
Pogo the clown at children's parties and community events literally

(01:00:09):
all the time. Everybody in town knew him, respected him,
loved him. He was another one that was in the
political realm, all of that kind of stuff. But think
he also was like city council, county council.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Outstanding, vice president of the Moose Club, sorry about that.
And he was affiliated with the local jc's chapter in Waterloo, Iowa.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
So all of the all of the questionable things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Yep, he's up to lots of things. And he was
in the community like in politics as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yep, he was. And they went to church, they went
to events, they went to social functions, you know, the
whole nine yards everybody in town knew him and respected
him him and loved him and whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
It was. The thing, could you imagine learning later like
I had this guy perform at my kid's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Birthday, right, But think about the things that we see
on the news now with the pedos. They've got these
kind of people performing at children's parties or in classrooms
or whatever, and then they get arrested and tons of

(01:01:29):
child pornography or have committed essay against children or you
know whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
We just had that happen at my daughter's school not
too long ago, with the damn superintendent of the school.
So yep, I'm not saying just the Mormons are bad,
but I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
But it's coincidental that there are several of these serial
killers have that in common, you know what I mean,
just saying.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Either that or they're from Wisconsin. One of the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
So course, this thing, like I said, was young boys,
young adult males, teenagers, whatever. So he was able to
manipulate because he's another one that was narcissistic, egotistical, whatever.
So he would laurel lower victims with promises of jobs

(01:02:31):
or money or better social opportunities, things like that, and
so he would sexually assault his victims. He loved to
strangle people. He had several devices that he actually made
that would excuse me that, you know, like he would

(01:02:57):
would say that it was like a circus trick. You
want to see circus trick. And he would use this
device that he made which would actually tighten and he
would like, so they pass out and then he'd bring
him back to And he was like a repetitive torturer.
So he would would do that to them like like

(01:03:19):
multiple times, or like handcuffs they couldn't get out of.
You want to see a magic trick, you know, and
it was like handcuffs and then there's no key and whatever.
So uh. He also, I believe, dismembered people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Oh he did. He was nasty. He was nasty. He
was all about that dust stuff. I'm like, I don't.
I don't get the dust stuff. Like I'm not trying
to be a dick here, but come on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Yeah, I don't. I don't understand it either. But again,
thirty three victims between them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Not as yeah, but not at all these other things,
these other.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
So even though he was suspected of a lot more,
that is the official number that is listed. It's thirty three.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Of course, of course it is so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
So he had a psychopathy sexual sadism because he loved
that uh domineering and the control and you know, having
people choke them out until they pass out and bring
it back and re repeating that over and over and

(01:04:41):
over again.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
And rather sad. That feels so horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
No it doesn't, because I don't think I would have
want to be repeatedly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
No, no torture or yea, rather just be put out
of my misery the first part.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
So he was even like taunting the police again because
they were tailing him and following him around. They arrested
him once they let him go. They didn't have enough
evidence or whatever, I don't know to hold him even
though they had plenty of evidence, but they let him go.

(01:05:24):
So they were tailing him and he would literally stop
in a restaurant and then invite like the detectives over
to like have dinner with him or buy him a
beer or buy him a coffee or whatever. And this
continued for a very long time that he was doing that,

(01:05:44):
and it's like kind of taunting, like I know you're probably.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Together, like come have dinner with me with just hang
out my hands now, speaking of glass bills, did you
hear about his No, it was a little hat tip
to the Mormon because he got KFC. Oh yeah, it's

(01:06:13):
just something.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Else, an homage to his first wife.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
I guess a bucket of KFC, twelve shrimp fries and
a pound of strawberries.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Weird combo.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
That's a weird combo in general, you know. Now, they
don't do that, and I feel bad for people. I
think they should give him their last meal.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
It's just mean. Here's a blowny sandwich on rotten bread.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Yeah, that's just not nice. Let him have that. So sad.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
So he had antisocial personality disorder, considered to be a
psychopath sexual sadist, but he was not psychotic. He was
completely aware of his actions and the ramifications. Blah blah blah.

(01:07:08):
They rested him in nineteen seventy eight. Finally they discovered
all the bodies either under his house or in a
nearby like foresty area that was close to his house.
He went to trial in nineteen eighty, represented by defense attorneys,

(01:07:31):
convicted on thirty three counts of murder, and he ended
up He ended up dying in nineteen ninety four by
lethal injection.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Bye bye, buddy. Not as bad as getting fried, but hey,
still go. I know people don't agree. You know, I
had one on anti social personality disorder and it is
not here. I love. What else is my stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Oh you just had that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Up psychosis and sadism, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
But so anti social personal personality disordered is like chronic deceit, manipulation,
disregard for others rights or safety, things like that, failure
to conform to social norms like laws, morality, things like that,

(01:08:27):
impulsivity and aggression.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
And if you ever meet somebody with you'll know it's
very they don't have normal people feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
It's so hard I can say that I know somebody
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
I do, do I do, and and I know they're
actually diagnosed with it. And when I heard the diagnosis,
I was like, oh my, oh my.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Gosh, you're like, oh my, that fits you nice.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
A good one. That's a bad one, that's real bad.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
But yeah, so he's another one that Gracie was not
legally insane, and so they ruled that he was competent
to stand trial. The Inxandy defense went away because he
knew right from wrong and he would tell them. So

(01:09:25):
he actually he like confessed to his attorney and this
lengthy like a series of tapes or whatever. And then
after he was in prison, he was like just kidding,
that wasn't real, and he was like trying to get

(01:09:45):
out of whatever. But they'd already found like all the
bodies under his house.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
That's so gross, Like, oh, that wasn't real. Those are
skeletons for Halloween. I just storm there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
I didn't have room with the attics, so I put
him in the crowd space. Really, okay, talk, So moving
on from mister finger lick and chicken.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Man, chicken Man.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
So now we're going to go to Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Okay, So I have to tell you guys, Jeffrey is
not a Mormon. However, oh's the wrong one. Jeffrey has
been rumored to have grown up around some Mormons, So
just putting that out there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
So he was an interesting man, and again an interesting number.
He killed and dismembered seventeen men and boys. Nothing to
see here. He was very much in anamorism. He buried
people in his backyard. He buried people or dismembered them,

(01:11:02):
and had like vats of people and skulls and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
In his freezer.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Parts. Yeah, there was literally parts of people all over
his house, like everywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
So gross.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
He's another one.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
He was arrested or stopped on suspicion like many, many
many times, and they let him go many many many times,
like expanding years, like years and years, and they're like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
They kept giving him. They gave him back. One of
the freaking victims, this little kid that was like he
looked really young, but he was Asian, so they were like, oh,
he's old enough. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
When he came outside naked.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Yes, after after he was man he.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Was drilling holes in his head and pouring acid in
his head.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
And so the guy was able to stumble outside, but
one of the neighbors actually called the police and whatever.
The police show up and they give him back so
he could finish the job.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
That's so sad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
So he was born in nineteen sixty in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
His father was a chemist, and he was very distant.
His dad left when he was a teenager or just
just becoming a teenager.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Have you heard this. Both of the parents freaking left him.
They just up and like moved away and left him
in the house. And then sold the house. Eventually they
were like, m sorry about it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
He was like seventeen, so his mother had a lot
of mental illness issues like all growing up, like he
would find her like basically comatoast room or whatever like
in that you know, trance type state or whatever. And
so the father couldn't take it anymore. He left, and

(01:13:10):
then the mother ended up leaving too and left him,
like he said, alone by himself. He did wind up
like going to live with his grandmother for a while,
but even from like a super young age, he was
very interested in dead animals or killing animals and like

(01:13:37):
cutting them up and you know, looking at their guts
and whatever. He was very interested in science y type
stuff like that, I'm not a serial killer. I like
autopsy stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Well yeah, but we're not doing it in the garage.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Yeah, And I don't have anyone buried in my crawl space,
uh that kind of So.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
If his parents had parented, none of these people would
have been killed one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
And again this comes back to family and stability and
abandonment issues and so a lot of what he did
was because he was trying to keep people Like a
guy or gean, did you know where it was like
he was trying to keep his mom and Jeffrey leave me.

(01:14:31):
Jeffrey was trying to like have the ultimate companion, the
ultimate boyfriend or whatever, because relationships never worked out because
he was socially awkward and shy and all that stuff. Again,
very introverted, very quiet, all of those kind of things.

(01:14:52):
His dad loved, his mom left, they both met him.
He went to live with his grandmother, and then I
don't think that that was a great situation either. His
grandmother was again very devout religious, you know, the whole
nine yards, and you have to go to church with
me and stuff, and so he was arrested at one

(01:15:14):
point in time for doing something. I think he exposed himself. Oh,
I think it was when he lived with his grandmother
and or before he lived with his grandmother, and then
when he got out, he went to live with her,
and that's what she was like trying to straighten him
out and whatever. But because he lived in the basement

(01:15:39):
I think of her house, he had full access to
the lower level of the house, and so he actually
started bringing people back to the house and drugging them
and stuff. When he lived with his grandmother, so.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
Scary dude, Like, can you imagine like just having the
balls to be like, I'm just gonna bring this guy
home and pour acid in his head with Grammy upstairs.
It's wrong with you, he got. I hate to say it,
because he did get saved later, you know, I don't
know what to say with that one, but whatever, God

(01:16:21):
can figure it out. My husband asked me that before
we came downstairs. Here's some pictures of the evidence taken
from his apartment. Yeah, and he's like, do you think
that they can be saved? And I'm like, I'm just
glad I don't have to decide. I'm not going to
answer that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
And God knows what's on their heart, so he knows
if they're truly remorseful and repentant or not. It accepts
that it depends on if you accept him wholly as
your savior, because he did die for all of our sins.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
But but this guy's pretty gruesome.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Old Jeff uh not only like to dismember people, but
he loved to eat people and allay them. And the
skillet and stuff in his house. But another instance of this,

(01:17:23):
he ended up moving to back to another place in Wisconsin.
I think it was like green bay, I think. But
he was living in this crumby, gross apartment like this
where where they where you have the evidence picture. A
neighbor of his had called and recorded multiple times there

(01:17:47):
is this horrific, awful smell coming from his apartment. The
police would show up or the you know, the leasing
agent would show up and they would be like, oh,
it smells like the freezers out, it's roddick neat, when
actually it was him keeping like that's like the big

(01:18:09):
barrels in his house that had tons of body parts.
He had skulls, had boat right. Yeah, So the smell
for the residents in that building, I can't imagine. But
the lady that reported the smell coming from his apartment,

(01:18:30):
it's the same lady that reported the boy that escaped
that he drilled.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
The hole.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
And they gave him back. So of course he was
not only he was killed, but also his brother was killed.
Because he would lure little luwer young boys in for
modeling for photo shoots, you know, and it was usually
like poor kids or whatever that he would latch onto

(01:18:59):
and and lure men with money because he was real
big at taking photos.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
MM, so he them photos.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Yeah, he would didn't want to put those Yeah he
would their kids, Yeah, yeah he would. He would take
all these pictures and stuff and then he would like
spike their drink with with some kind of drug and
knock them out. And that's when he would like do

(01:19:29):
his activity.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Yes, And I you know, I always the only part
of these. My husband was talking about the whole putting
them to death and the salvation part, which, like I said,
I'm glad God does, but I always since I was little,
just because if you know anything about Ted Bundy's grandma mom,

(01:19:52):
you know that these moms and dads like suffered so bad,
like this is still your child even if they the
worst thing ever. And she loved him like she begged
for his life and everything. And I'm just like that's
the part that hurts my heart, you know, for these
people around, the people that got broken so badly, they

(01:20:14):
would do this. And of course with the families of
the victims number one, But like if you look into
that side, nobody ever does, you know, the victims get
the sympathy, let the family members get shamed. Now, in
some cases, such as Dahmer, I kind of feel like
his family needed to be shamed. They fucked him up.
And they left him, and they were just like, oh,
off to your own devices, and by like, you don't

(01:20:38):
do that, You just don't do that. But you know,
some of them were half decent parents and just were
hiding like a teenage pregnancy maybe or I don't you
know whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
And you know, the parenting all goes back to you're
only able to parent as good as your parents parented you. Yes,
if they've come from generations of people that don't know
how to raise kids, don't want to raise kids, don't
want kids period, you know, or just don't know how

(01:21:12):
to plane flat out adult, they're they're putting all this
onto their children, which is generational trauma because they're carrying
all that with them, passing it down through the lineage,
which is really screwing some people up.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
And the mental illness and all kinds of crazy stuff. So, yeah,
this one how he died, No one should have to
die that way.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
It was, you know how Dahmer died, right, Yeah, we're
going to get to that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
So, because he was again like one of those shy, awkward,
isolated people, he couldn't form proper relationships because he didn't
have any role models at home to teach him about that,
and not even his grandma. And so he started out

(01:22:08):
with early arrest for peeping tom and disorderly conduct, which
you know, like I said, he was flashing showing his
twinkie to people, and it escalated from there. So it
started with the cutting up stuff, animals in the woods

(01:22:28):
or whatever, and then the peeping tom and the flasher
and all of that stuff. And then it was like
still trying to have that that fix because he was
missing that love and the woman, you know, the love
of anybody, right, So that's what like turned him into that.

(01:22:54):
He was another one that loved strangulation, sexual assault.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
He never looks happy. Look at how empty he looks,
even as a kid, Like something's up with this one.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
You know, because he felt like he was a throwaway kid.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Yeah, you know, and it's nobody else sad because yeah,
they say he was smart. Whoa computer? They say he
was pretty smart and stuff, And I just feel bad
for that situation in general. Don't feel bad what he did,
just the fact of what he suffered at a younger
age to get there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
So after all of them, multiple times that he was
stopped or arrested, he's been arrested multiple times, and they
kept letting him go and whatever, and every time that
would happen, it would escalate to something worse and worse.
And that's when he started like drilling holes in the

(01:23:54):
head and pouring acid in because he thought he would
make his like forever person, he could control their brain.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
That's not going to work, you guys, don't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
Don't try that stupid human dricks. So he was finally
arrested in July nineteen ninety one after another victim escaped
and actually called the police. And this was a different
victim that escaped. He said several that escaped and that's
why he got arrested multiple times, but they kept letting

(01:24:30):
him go. This time that didn't happen. This is when
the police discovered photographs of dismembered bodies. So he was
taking pictures with body parts and on top of body
parts and doing things to body parts. He confessed fully

(01:24:54):
to the seventeen murders. He pled guilty, but the insane
defense was rejected because again he knew what he was doing.
So he was sentenced to fifteen consecutive life terms. Had
antisocial personality disorder again, paraphilic disorders necrophilic disorders, sexual sadism,

(01:25:23):
compulsive and ritualistic behaviors. But he was not psychotic and
he died in November of nineteen ninety four. He was
real justice, murdered in prison by blunt force trauma from

(01:25:43):
another inmate.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
To his rectum with a broomstick. That has been I
will never forget because I was made in high school
when that happened, and my grandpa told me he got
way deserved well.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
And that's the thing is, when you're a child predator
and you go to prison, usually they will take care
of and.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Brutal. When my grandpa told me how, I was like, okay,
he got killed. But then when he went on about
it a minute, I was like, oh my gosh, I
don't want to know that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
That would be That would be a very horrible way
to go. But at the same time, and this is
going to sound.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
I think it would be slow too.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
This is going to sound well, not really if you're
bowl ruptures. But at the same time, that saved the
taxpayers a lot of money because when people are on
death row, it's taxpayer funded and they are sometimes on
death row for twenty years, thirty years.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean, that's why that was
a wild story to me. I was just like, whoa, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
So he was not an attention seeker like like Bundy
and uh Gracie were, because he was very introverted. He
didn't want people paying attention to him other than when
he was trying to you know, find us forever person

(01:27:30):
or whatever. But he wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
They bludgeoned him too, so so it was it was
definitely a retaliatory crime. Oh yeah, And you know what,
you never hear anything about the guy that got him either.
It just happened. And that's all kind of makes you wonder.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
And was there a guard again that looked the other
way the other way just same same, or.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Was it a guard in general, because I'll tell you what.
The pipe was a twenty inch pipe from the gym.
But how much or long are those billy sticks. I'm
just saying, I'm just putting it out there, Like I
started thinking about that. I'm like, hmmm, it's about the
same size, Yeph, But okay, sure, sure whatever. I mean,

(01:28:20):
I get it he was a creeper and whatever. But like,
I don't know, I don't know. I have such a
hard time like going in between like did he deserve it?
That's awful. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
So with him, there was a lot of not just
the diagnosis that I read earlier, but multiple people like
interviewed him, tested him, whatever. So he was alsoso thought
to have borderline personality disorder. So that was an extra

(01:28:59):
added thing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
To his little cut.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
Yeah, and it said even though he's not psychotic, it
said psychotic like or compulsive features, And that was the
controversial diagnosis. But he he always told everybody that interviewed
him that from a very early age, he's always had

(01:29:25):
a compulsion to kill.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Or he was messing with animals a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
So I don't know poor guy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:38):
Or everybody. Those parents that lost two kids, I mean, yeah,
I don't know. Both guys should have done better.

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
Yeah, And they were both like very very young boys.
And so I can't imagine being the family that. You know,
like it happened the first time, and then a couple
of years later it happens again. It's the same guy
in the same apartment building.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
You know, no way, no way.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
So our next little Diddy is Gary Ridgeway. He was
half the Green River Killer.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
The Green River Killer was allegedly going to the Church
of Christ which they definitely say was not the Mormon Church.
But I just want to throw this out there because
there's a big controversy because the Church of Christ was
the original name for the Latter day Saint Church. So
just so people know, they do say it's the Protestant part.

(01:30:36):
But again, we're back to religion, every one of them.
So you see, he looks so snarky.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Look at his base, Well, he looks like angry, but
it also looks like somebody put a rectal suppository in sideways.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
Definitely not quite yes, agree, just constipated for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
So this dude was an uber killer. He confessed his
seventy one murders, but he was only convicted of forty nine.
But he was one of America's most prolific because of
the amount of people that he did.

Speaker 2 (01:31:25):
I just say that his ears grew at such a
magnificent rate. Like he wasn't bad looking in this first one,
but those lobes grew at least I would say an
inch and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
Well, and his ears alone look like they're at the
size of his head.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Yeah, and they didn't before. Like look, and it's not
just the long hair, because it's the lobe's it's the
actual ear lobe itself, and you can see his ear lobe.
And it's not that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
He wasn't that old, So it wasn't because he was
aging and were pulling down with gravity, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
Very strange. I think he must have liked to pull
him or something.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
So this guy was born in nineteen forty nine in
Salt Lake City, Utah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
Yes, there is no definitive proof right that he was,
but here it is and it says that he was
raised there and there's no evidence that he was. This
is how I know he was a Mormon.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
And then this next one and it cracks me up.
I'm sorry I had to. But again it says, you know, oh,
he wasn't a Mormon, but his brother's a Mormon. Okay,
dumbasses whatever. Like I mean, it's not clear if Garry
himself was a Mormon because he may not have been baptized. Well,
I sure bet he was raised in it. He's from

(01:32:52):
Salt Lake his brother's a Mormon. Uh yeah, I don't
know what else people need exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
And if it goes out of its way to make
a point that he that there's no point not a
Mormon that he definitely was, because we know how they do. Uh,
it's kind of like Wikipedia, so don't believe what you
read exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
I had to be annoying with that one because it
made me so like laugh, like to find these things
just so people know, like to actually go back and
find every little connect the dot like on eggs or here,
whatever the stuff I've been posting lately, it's so annoying,
just like the Colonel Sanders thing and the KFC thing.
Oh you can't find this and that, but you can

(01:33:36):
find this little piece, but then the Mormons scrubbed out
of it. I'm like, yeah, okay, of course, how do
you think to do that? It looks worse.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
We don't want to tarnish that name, now, did we.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
I mean, just let it be, because like there's creeps
in every single religion and it just makes you look worse,
that's all one.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
And we all know that there's there's ties to bad
stuff in every sect out there.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
For sure. You know what it is probably is my guess. Yes,
Mormonism is not that big. So it does surprise me
the amount of ties with serial killers. And it's not
just these ones, but in general, like if you look
through there's a lot. But then when you get into
the fraternities that are associated with Mormons, and you get
into you know, the Masonry and this and that, it

(01:34:26):
makes a little more sense because you've got this club
of people that think they're better than everybody else. So
fuck all of you people, And I'm sorry, that's what
it is. You know, well, it's not the religion.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
And two like, how do all of these people that
were under suspicion or arrested multiple times and then let
go no charge is filed, chick. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Yeah, got a absolutely, I'm not gonna do it whatever. Yeah,
they're doing you know, things that get them out of it, exactly, Jenna.
And it could be Catholic, it just happens to be Mormon.
It could be I don't care what pick.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
One like, and I will I will say this disclaimer.
When I was going through picking people for this show,
I was not you didn't even know Mormon tize.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
I was, you know what, this is what I do
with every show I almost ever do, And I will
find a Mormon one degree of separation from everything. And
here's the thing. If that was a Catholic okay, because
that's like a really big religion, right, or if it was,
you know, a Muslim, because that's actually a really big religion.

(01:35:45):
People don't understand that. But you know, when we look
at these things in percentage rates, the Mormon Church is
not very big. That's what surprises me. Right. But then
when you look at the masonry connection and the sigma
kai connection than the rotary connection, and you start looking
at all these other connections, it makes more sense. So

(01:36:05):
they're all business owner. Like a lot of these people
are affluent, like Bundy was affluent attorney. Blah blah blah.
I'm sure he got in because he went to the
University of utaht Like, I'm sure that's what happened. You know,
it's these fraternities. And anytime you think, and this is
what the Mormon Church does think and so do other churches,

(01:36:26):
I'll give you that they are the only true church
on the face of the universe period, that all others
are not going to make it, and that they are
far superior than you, and they are getting their own planet.
And by hell, they have the mel Keziic priesthood, so
you better get out of the way.

Speaker 1 (01:36:43):
So again that's kind of narcissistic and egotistical.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
Right, It makes people not live in the normal world
because they grow up thinking they are better than everyone.
And it just doesn't teach the It doesn't. I always
talk about this and I need to just buckle down
and do it. But I'm gonna make a shirt that
says I'm sorry for what I did when I was
Mormon because as an asshole. I mean, I wasn't the

(01:37:14):
biggest asshole because I have the priesthood, but no, just kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
But think about it in terms of like these serial
killers and what you just said, and how not only
a questionable crummy home life, but church pounding these things
into their heads as well.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
You're chosen, You're better than everyone, I mean at some level.
Then we get into the you know, the I'm not
going to say the word because you can't the religion
you can't talk about that's only three letters long. It
starts with a J. You guys can fill it in. Okay,
that shouldn't be a thing. You should be able to
talk about any religion anywhere period because whatever you know,

(01:38:00):
you can baptize into that that's not just a cultural thing.
That's not appropriation for a race, Like, come on, half
of these people aren't even from they're not all Hasidic either,
so it's stupid. But the point is is anytime you
give somebody carte blanche to say, you can't even say

(01:38:20):
my name, Wow, I can't even find that KOC dude's name. Like,
it doesn't matter what thing you're affiliated with. If you
are that level, you're probably gonna do some shit that's
wrong because who's going to stop you anyway and.

Speaker 1 (01:38:40):
Repeatedly. And I think that's why there's such a problem
in our country is because they allow that to happen.
And then if you do catch them nowadays, for a
lot of the things like the Dahmer did or you
know whatever, or especially with the photograph apps in all

(01:39:00):
of that stuff, it's like six months probation, you know, suspended,
just whatever, no time served, blah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
Blah, the prison was too full.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
So then people go and do it again because they
know that they're going to get away with it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
Look at who runs the prison system, You'll laugh at
Why why did they get away? I mean, I'm doing
a whole series soon about the history of the Church.
Why do I pick on the Mormons because I was one?
Because I'm here in Utah. It doesn't mean I couldn't
do this for any church. Okay, I don't go into
for this reason, right. I believe in God and the Bible,

(01:39:46):
that's all. And I'm not saying people can't go to
have you know, a community or whatever. You need to
do that way. But you never want to give full
authority or tell people they're going to be a God
when they die. That's scary. You're not going to be God.
You are a servant.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
That's demonic in nature.

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
It's not normal. Yeah, Jesus said, what be a servant
and you'll be happy. Even freaking Theosophus and anthroposophist say,
you know, give to others. If you want true to
talk to like angels, you've gotta go walk people out
on the beach. That's from Steiner, who's considered a cultic. Okay, well,

(01:40:27):
if they've got that much figured out, and I'm not
saying they are doing it all right, I've done plenty
of shows on that too, but they've obviously figured out
how to tap in. It's not from being self righteous assholes. Yeah.
Back to the story.

Speaker 1 (01:40:45):
Okay, So he was born in Utah. His dad was
super abusive, very critical of him, couldn't do anything right.
His mother was supportive, but overshadowed by his dad's harshness.
So I'm assuming she tried to put a stop to

(01:41:08):
things but it didn't work out real well. But at
least she spoke up, even though it didn't go anywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:41:17):
When you started stabbing and torturing animals at six, exactly,
I would be you know, Oh no, he was sixteen.
The kid was six, but he stapped.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
So family dysfunction again, abuse again, emotional neglect because again
unloving home, and when you grow up in an unloving home,
you're looking for that love to replace things. So he

(01:41:49):
was another shy, introverted, socially awkward person developed sexual fantasies
about strangling women beginning in early childhood.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
I think this picture is so fun, but.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
Clearly it's a piece of man meet. It says the
Green River Keller and then he's got no shirt on.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
But he's got his blood draw on his arm. So
I think it was maybe the police one. But it
made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:42:24):
So somebody made this, but it was kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
Yeah, somebody made it. Wait until you see this other one.
I about died laughing.

Speaker 1 (01:42:33):
So like Heidi said, uh he killed animals as a
young child. Uh so that's where his violent tendency started.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
But he looked like he was kind of normalist right here,
and which is sad, I'm sure for her.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
And as a spouse, how do you not have an
inkling that something is going on?

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
I will tell you this, if I was a spouse
of one of these corpse diddlers, I would sue their
ass off because could you imagine that kind of betrayal
to think that that happened and then maybe you happened
as well in the same ve. Yeah, they say aids

(01:43:29):
started from animals, and this is my guest, aha.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
Every thing they told us about that as a lie.

Speaker 2 (01:43:39):
Oh yeah, I don't know what's happening. But I mean
I feel bad for the spouses honestly, or the partners
because like Ted Bundy's partner, she was like he was great,
and the daughter was like he was great. You do,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
So a lot of these who were back in the
day where there's no cell phones, right right, yes, But
if you're married or even living with somebody engaged whatever
and they're out late at night all the time, what

(01:44:16):
the hell do you think they're doing what if.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
They're traveling though, because my stepdad used to work for
the Union Pacific and he would be gone for weeks
at a time, like we wouldn't see him, like literally
on the road, you know. And then there's truck drivers
and like people that have on the road jobs. I'm
not picking just on them. That's just the first thing
that came to mind because of my grandpa was one.
But I'm just saying there's lots of jobs where you

(01:44:41):
travel back in the day, especially like traveling salesman, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
I mean because if you think about like Bundy and
he was working jobs that were legal or in politics,
that stuff is during the day.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
Right, he was going back and forth, so she was
in Cea. I do know his case only because I'm
fascinated with him, not in a weird way, but like
he was a Mormon, so I was like, okay, So anyway,
he would travel back and forth to see her, and
it was kind of a long distance relationship. So that
one made more sense to me because then he could
save up and be like be good, you know, and

(01:45:19):
then go do bad and then come back and like
but yeah, the ones that are living at home all
the time.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
That has a daytime job. And that's what I'm saying,
like him, like Gary Richroy, right, And so his thing
was he targeted vulnerable women and most of the time
they were either prostitutes or runaways.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
It did say he was a truck painter for Caentworth
truck factory. So I'm wondering if he did travel.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
I don't know. I'm just carking, like, yeah, you know,
thinking about like my husband, he's not a serial killer,
that wrong, but like if he started going out like
at night all the time and not coming home until.

Speaker 2 (01:46:14):
No, You're right, Janet, this one he didn't travel, said
regarding travel. His job itself did not require extensive travel.
He only commuted daily to the factory.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
So he worked days and he's out picking.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
Up picking up victims on the way, prostitutes at night, yep,
on the way.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
So he would lure the victims in with rides, money
or being a john, right, and usually involved strangulation again,
and he would dump the bodies, generally speaking, almost always

(01:46:57):
in the Green River that's how he got his name,
or in the woods surrounding the Green River. But it
was always right there at the Green River. He was
very organized and methodical about his selection of people and
carefully planned to avoid any kind of detection because he

(01:47:20):
was married. He killed forty nine people suspected of over seventy,
making him one of the deadlist serial killers in history.

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
He just looks like such a normal guy, like the
gun next door. He only chose his girls like people
that wouldn't be reported, like basically transient type situation or
hitchhiking or whatever. But he didn't have a type, as
you can see, like it wasn't a type.

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
They're definitely very altars in that aspect, totally different. So
he was another one that's like really good at being
a chameleon, living the you know, double lifestyle. He's got
his killer persona and he's got his happy husband, you

(01:48:21):
know whatever, and so it made him blend in. He
was also a church goer. It was also.

Speaker 2 (01:48:29):
But we don't know what church because of your family.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
That's a secret. So he was actually arrested in November
of two thousand and one after DNA evidence linked him
to victims. He pled guilty to forty eight murders to
avoid the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
That's a lot of people. That is so many people.
I mean, I can't even imagine. Was he a you know,
a corpse diddler.

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
No, no, he wasn't. He wasn't that kind of person.
He usually just just strangled him and that was it.
Like he wasn't, but he did participate in being a
john right right, right right.

Speaker 2 (01:49:21):
So you know, so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:49:25):
So he was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder again psychopathy,
so he was calculated and manipulative and remorseless sexual sadism
disorder because he liked being in control and had had

(01:49:46):
his ritualistic way. It was always done the same way,
like repetitive behavior. He was also found not psychotic and
fully aware of actions and legal consequences, so wasn't ever
able to plead insanity. And as of right now he

(01:50:09):
is still alive. He's serving life life without parole. But
he also got additional years for all of the unsolved cases.
So he's never going to get out like ever, unless

(01:50:29):
he's in a liberal prison and they're like where crowded,
get out.

Speaker 2 (01:50:34):
Get out, go home and kill seventy some more people.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
So he's serving time in the Washington State prison right now.
But again, the childhood abuse, the social isolation, the unloving
how all of.

Speaker 2 (01:50:52):
That stuffs my favorite picture.

Speaker 1 (01:50:58):
I just want to know what he's doing to that dog.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
I mean, I do remember, I will say this for him.
First of all, that couch everyone had except some people
had with the wagon wheels on it. And second of all,
my stepdad had this little short robe and I think
it was a thing back then, which actually makes me
giggle because it's so silly. I hope they look happy,

(01:51:24):
you know what, Usually these crazy ass people, especially the
anti social disorder people, they like their animals, not all animals,
their particular animals better than they like humans.

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
That weird, which is weird that he's laying on the
couch in the super short robe, he's got like the
top showing his chest hair or whatever. And then he's
got a dog that looks like he's sitting on his
ding dog.

Speaker 2 (01:51:56):
It's hiding as good bits yeah or bad bits whatever.
At least they're not you know, necro bits. We'll call
it that. The necro get me. I can't, but yeah,
the dogs are happy, so whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
But yeah, yeah, it's so weird happy.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
It's actually weird to see people like this, like in
a just a normal like the picture with his wife
or this picture like where they're just normal people because
you just think of them as so, you know, not
especially one coming up that we're going to talk about,
and he wasn't. I don't know that I've ever seen
a happy go lok. You picture that one, but he's

(01:52:39):
not yet.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
So the next one we have this Eileen Wernos.

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
Okay, I will put this disclaimer out there. I think
she's not affiliated with Mormons at all. I actually feel
bad for her.

Speaker 1 (01:52:54):
I do too, because, yeah, her story was literally heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (01:52:59):
I think she'd had enough to be so.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
She was born in nineteen fifty six in Rochester, Michigan.
Her mother was a severe alcoholic. She abandoned a leen
when she was four years old, so abandoned again. Her
father was a convicted sex offender that was executed for

(01:53:26):
child molestation. So she was raised by her maternal grandparents,
but went through extreme abuse at their household and neglect.
Sexually abused by her grandfather starting at age eight, so
abandoned at four, fathers put to death, started getting sexually assaulted,

(01:53:52):
which I'm not too sure it didn't say, but I'm
gonna guess and say her father might have also sexually
assaulted her. She ran away from home.

Speaker 2 (01:54:05):
Remembers one hundred percent, if I remember correctly, how many
people assaulted her.

Speaker 1 (01:54:11):
So she ran away from home repeatedly because she's getting
sexually assaulted, she's getting beat up, neglected. They're not like
taking care of her needs and things like that. They
were extremely poor. So she came from a very unstable home,

(01:54:34):
and she had lots of anger issues because of this,
and distrusted a lot of people. So she had a
lot of trauma related issues or psychosis going on because
of because of the trauma. And I'm sure a lot
of PTSD that's not listed, but for sure, you know,

(01:54:58):
I matter assault, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
So did to me. And I know she's not I
know they've got her something else, and I'll let you
cover that. But I just feel like she is a
really big proponent for d ID, which is when you
split your personalities, and not the type where she has
a whole nother person. There are some types that just
where you go to another place because you've been hurt

(01:55:23):
so many times.

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
Right, and it's not a common DID for people that
don't know is disassociative identity disorder, and it happens. It's
very common in trauma situations, extreme trauma situations where it's
a normal part for them to miss periods of time,

(01:55:49):
and so something can happen to them and they will
literally think that it happened yesterday, and it could have
happened five weeks ago, you know, like there's periods of
time that that blank out or like blackout. And so

(01:56:09):
that's what I have to talk about, where she could
have done these things and not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:56:18):
You do not remember. Yeah, and so and some of
that is there's a difference. There's two things, like one
is the ID and one is just compartmentalization. Because I'm
like only diagnosed with compartmentalization PTSD, but we brought up
PTSD and it immediately made me think of that because
there are periods of time and people will say, well,

(01:56:40):
you blocked that out because that was traumatic. I'm like, yeah,
but then why don't I remember this trip to Disneyland
that was probably fun? And it's a very strange feeling
looking at a photo that you're in that you know
that's you, you know, and you're like, I don't remember
that at all, like and so yeah, it's really strange,

(01:57:05):
and it picks and chooses for you what it blocks out.
You can go do memory retrieval if you only have
not d ID but the compartmentalization one from PTSD. However,
if you do, you better be sure you want to
because sometimes if you're happy and you're coping, like my

(01:57:26):
daughter has similar issue and for her, she's going through
it because she's not she has underlying depression for unknown cause,
so that's contributing whereas I don't. So they were like, yeah,
you might want to just leave that alone. It's a
it's a weighing scale, so you have to really go

(01:57:50):
through that and decide if that's for you.

Speaker 1 (01:57:53):
Yeah, and that's you know, even if people do like
the emd.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
R where they she's doing.

Speaker 1 (01:58:00):
Yeah, and AMDAR can be very beneficial for people that
have PTSD and anxieties and stuff from traumatic events. And
it's where you bring up a memory that made you
feel unsafe and then you're supposed to reassign a positive

(01:58:25):
thing to it, right, So you bring up something negative
and you try to reassign that so your brain files
it in your safe box instead of your unsafe box.

Speaker 2 (01:58:36):
However, it can be extremely distressing, yes, and it's exhausting.
It is. I've watched her do this over the last
few months. And I'm not going to say for what
just you know, PTSD, but she has had to really
go through some emotions. Whereas my uncle that is a

(01:58:57):
war veteran, he you know, he was the top of
the top security lines, like he's a big deal, green Beery, Okay, Airborne,
the whole deal. He took that twice and he was like,
this is.

Speaker 1 (01:59:13):
Not for me.

Speaker 2 (01:59:14):
I cannot go through those feelings. So you really have
to be careful. I don't like that they blanket this
new therapy for everyone because it's not right, you know,
to make sure and ketamine therapy as well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
So this Eileen had like the most severe childhood out
of any of the serial killers that are on our list,
and and it's disturbing the amount of trauma that she
went through. And because she was being abused and sexually

(01:59:53):
assaulted and neglected and all that stuff, she kept running
away and so at early age she wound up running
away and getting into prostitution and you know, drugs and
petty theft and stuff like that, trying to live, trying

(02:00:14):
to provide for herself, which I know a lot of
people aren't going to understand that, but if you're completely
neglected at home and they're not feeding you, and they're
not clothing you and whatever, and you've.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
Already been violated. Yeah, like for free you this is bad,
but the term you may as well get paid for
it type situation. And I'm not saying. Look, this is
why I feel bad for Eileen. She had upwards of
seven to ten Johns a day, okay for long periods

(02:00:48):
of time, even more. Sometimes she only killed six people.
Why because they raped her? And she says this over
and over again. If she was this prolific killer like
they want everybody to think.

Speaker 1 (02:01:02):
They would have been all dead.

Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Right, hundreds of men per week, Like think of this,
like let's just say ten a day. You know, this
is going to add up very quickly in a month,
you know. And she didn't do that. And so you know,
she said I was protecting myself. Do I think she
was overly aggressive? One hundred percent. I'm not saying what

(02:01:26):
she did was right. I'm just saying that I think
sometimes people tried to take from her what she didn't
have to give. That was all she had in the
world to make any kind of way to feed herself
or do anything. And I'm sorry that that might strike
some people as really hard, but that's real and that

(02:01:47):
from her.

Speaker 1 (02:01:48):
You know, I agree with you, because she had male
friends that she hung out with or whatever, and they
would party together and stuff and nothing ever happened to them.
It was not just the people that you know. There's

(02:02:09):
a good documentary about her too, But it's like these
these men would like drive her out into the woods,
you know, on a back road or something and like
try to choke her or an a night on her
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:02:24):
Anally violate her to the point where she was actually
not in agreeance to that act. And with somebody that's
already been abused. Let me explain, with PTSD, you can
snap in a quick instance. People always say, oh, you
can control yourself a bag.

Speaker 1 (02:02:42):
It's it's the trigger. It's an unconscious, subconscious trigger that
pops up because she's.

Speaker 2 (02:02:49):
Just all attack, fight or flight, and she you know,
I am very much a fight not flight, and so
I get it, Like I look at her case and things.
If she was as prolific, and do watch that documentary
because she even says it herself, like I don't see
the same. Now we've looked at a lot of people's

(02:03:10):
faces here I don't see the missing soul. Is she
a little goofy and kind of weird looking sometimes, Yeah,
but I don't see that missing soul in her like
I see in the others. And I'm not sticking up
for her. What she did was wrong. I'm just saying,
if you were protecting yourself and that is your literal
only thing left you have in the world is your

(02:03:30):
actual body, because she had nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:03:32):
Else right because she was she was like uber poor,
so she would have to turn a trick to be
able to go buy food or you know.

Speaker 2 (02:03:44):
And she was taking care of her girlfriend so that
she didn't have to go, which is even worse because
she's actually not attracted to men. So I'm sure it
was extremely violating, which also leads into why she would
be attracted to women, because she probably had PTSD from
the men we've talked about.

Speaker 1 (02:04:02):
In early life. And that's what it said that because
it was repeated abuse from men, that she developed like
this deep seated hatred toward men. And I don't think
that's the case. I think she feels unsafe around me.

Speaker 2 (02:04:22):
I think she turned into I wish a motherfucker would.
I think she already didn't like men. I think she
didn't like what she had to do for men to
make money, and I think if they gave her a reason,
probably shouldn't have done that. But does that make it right? No,
you know, I'm just saying I don't think she was

(02:04:45):
this prolific killer like they want to make out. Did
she kill people out?

Speaker 1 (02:04:50):
I think hers is definitely from all of the dramas
and the unsafety because these guys, you know, like I said,
driving her out into the woods and stuff like that,
and then like trying to choke her out or stabber

(02:05:13):
or someone guy had a gun, and so it's like,
where do you draw the line? What would you do
if you were in that situation. I'd absolutely protect myself.

Speaker 2 (02:05:24):
Absolutely, And I'm not saying that that doesn't take away
from these family members. But also these people were not
doing the right thing either. They were violating her in
not with the prostitution, I mean with the attack.

Speaker 1 (02:05:39):
So one hundred percent. So she was arrested in January
of nineteen ninety one after a man actually survived an
attack and provided information. So she was convicted of six murders,
and she represented herself during portions the trial because again

(02:06:02):
she didn't have money. She wanted her story to be told.
They did not want her to testify because they didn't
she wasn't going to be the the perfect she refused.

Speaker 2 (02:06:17):
You know, one of the reasons why she fired her lawyers,
you guys, is because they wouldn't let her wear normal clothes.
She said, I don't want to wear a dress and
look like Mary Poppins, like I'm a lesbian. Yeah, she
was like, I am who I am, and I get that, Like,
I mean, I get also trying to represent your client,

(02:06:38):
but let's not make it into a something. It absolutely isn't.
It's stupid.

Speaker 1 (02:06:43):
Yeah, And see that's a lot of times they do that,
and it's like all about that the photo op. Really,
you know, it's about making somebody look good for the
camera and uh drawl like people's sympathies. Oh look at her.

Speaker 2 (02:07:04):
And she could have pulled it off, because I've seen
some pictures of her dolled up and she could have
probably got off if she would have played their game.

Speaker 1 (02:07:14):
Her. Her trial was awful to watch, but anyway, so
she represented herself a lot during the trial because she
wanted to introduce her childhood and how she grew up
and about the abuse that she suffered and all of
that stuff, trying to explain why she snapped and what

(02:07:40):
happened that let up to you know, her doing those
kind of things. Did it work. No, they still convicted her,
and they weren't very sympathetic, like at all.

Speaker 2 (02:07:55):
So if she had an all male jury too, I
think it was.

Speaker 1 (02:07:58):
I believe it was mostly male. I think there was
like one female on there. It wasn't. Yeah, like they
definitely wanted her to go down for a reason and
compared that to these other people that killed way more
people and did way more horrific things, you know, and

(02:08:20):
dismembered people and all of that stuff. Yeah, but I
think like they had money and example for money, they
came from church backgrounds. She did not. So she's an
easy scapegoat.

Speaker 2 (02:08:35):
And they wanted to show what's going to happen to
you guys. If and I'm not saying like no one
should kill anyone, but also people shouldn't rape people. And
I don't care if she's selling it. That means it
costs money, pay up, and that means you only get
to do what she said at the first place. What
there was an agreement to. You don't just get to
have carte blanche just for whatever, like if you're going

(02:08:58):
to go down that rabbit hole of purchasing a person
in general, I have very little like respect for that.
For the woman that has to do it to feed herself,
I have more respect for her than the guy that's
that's purchasing.

Speaker 1 (02:09:14):
So a hundred. So she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.
I can definitely understand the traumas and things like that.
She exhibited antisocial traits of course, with the criminal behavior,

(02:09:35):
impulsive behavior because she did some drugs too. In this
regard for the rules, she definitely had PTSD and some depression,
which I can understand because the abandonment, the abuse and
neglect and all of those things. She was deemed not
to be psychotic. She understood right from wrong, so it's

(02:10:00):
sanity defense was not on the table. So she died
in October of two thousand and two by a lethal injection.

Speaker 2 (02:10:11):
And the one person that she worked and did all
that for to take care of testified against her and
recorded it.

Speaker 1 (02:10:20):
Yeah, her documentary, the whole thing is like very heartbreaking
and said what's sad? Yeah, yes, so they said. Also
with her course, the fear of abandonment, unstable relationships, the
childhood trauma. She also had antisocial personality disorder.

Speaker 2 (02:10:45):
I don't see that on her.

Speaker 1 (02:10:47):
I don't see it either. They said she's at a relative, but.

Speaker 2 (02:10:52):
Yeah, but that's a borderline person in general. Like you
get a borderline person, they're they're super they do all
kinds of wacky stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:10:59):
Sometimes. Of course, she's aggressive when she needs to defend herself,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:11:07):
Antisocials have They would not ever be smiling and jolly
and silly like how she is all the time. I
don't see that.

Speaker 1 (02:11:16):
So they also said possible neurological or cognitive issues on
her that I do see, because she has a lower
than average cognitive functioning or processing ability, limited coping skills
again because she was never parented by anyone at all,

(02:11:37):
and difficulty regulating impulses, which again leads back to lack
of anyone adulting her, you know what I mean. So
the next one is Richard Ramirez.

Speaker 2 (02:11:55):
The nice is my favorite one, even though he's not
a Mormon. Well he's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (02:12:01):
This would be my husband's favorite one because he was
living so California while this was going on, so he
he is freaking creepy.

Speaker 2 (02:12:15):
That's what I'll say for him.

Speaker 1 (02:12:17):
So he was born in nineteen sixty in El Paso, Texas.
He was famous and very scary dude for a while.
His daughter, Yeah, look at that. He just looks like
he's demonically possessed.

Speaker 2 (02:12:38):
I have, yes, I have his diagnosis. He's possessed of
the MOFO.

Speaker 1 (02:12:44):
One hundred percent. And uh, I really believe that to
be true when you read about.

Speaker 2 (02:12:53):
Him jumping over six foot fences with one single bound,
like that's from the cops, you guys.

Speaker 1 (02:13:02):
So when he was grown up, his father was very
strict and very abusive. Of course, there was a lot
of physical abuse going on. His mother was permissive of
the behavior and was often overwhelmed so that they couldn't

(02:13:23):
control him. So he was exposed to a lot of
violence at home and a lot of crime. There was
a lot of shady things that his family was doing and.

Speaker 2 (02:13:37):
Substances.

Speaker 1 (02:13:39):
I was going to say, he's got like the beginning
of meth mouth.

Speaker 2 (02:13:45):
And he definitely looks mathey here where he starts looking
healthier during his trial.

Speaker 1 (02:13:51):
So one of the things that happened to him as
a child and a trauma that happened. He witnessed his
cousin commit violent sexual acts, including murder on people. So

(02:14:12):
he developed because he's learning from his cousin. Right, don't
even know what happened to his cousin, but this is
where he developed his fascination for guns, knives, and satanic imagery.
Hence the pentagram that is on his palm of his hand.

Speaker 2 (02:14:32):
And Hail Satan in the middle of him. I don't
think that helped his his whole case. But you know,
he wasn't really phased. He said, death was always part
of the program. I'll see y'all at Disney.

Speaker 1 (02:14:50):
Yeah, so creepy. So his victims weren't just male or female.
They were very rare demise, so it didn't matter if
it was men, women, or children. So a lot of
times it was from home invasions, burglaries, and he did

(02:15:12):
a lot of sexual assault and then murdered people. And
he often left satanic symbols at the crime scenes or
spoke of demonic forces.

Speaker 2 (02:15:24):
He also said this for people that don't lock their doors.
How he chose his victims was if the door opened,
it's you sliding glass doors.

Speaker 1 (02:15:36):
Yeah, he wasn't super selective on.

Speaker 2 (02:15:41):
So because crime scene photos. This is the commist. So
if y'all don't like spooky things, probably not watch the
next two. Mm hmm. But he was extremely.

Speaker 1 (02:15:57):
Gory and integram on the wall and this one, Wow, bananas,
it looks like this on the paintbrush.

Speaker 2 (02:16:10):
Oh yeah, it's like I think he must have hit
a jugular on that one because or subclavian something.

Speaker 1 (02:16:18):
What is that thing hanging from the wall.

Speaker 2 (02:16:20):
No, I was gonna zoom in on that too. I
did not know it's Oh is it a plant? I
think it's one of those weird spidery plants. I'm not
a hundred, but that's what I think it is. Yeah, yes,
this is graffic.

Speaker 1 (02:16:39):
So because he was on copious amounts of drugs, he
was very impulsive and he was actually convicted of thirteen murders,
five attempted murders, eleven sexual assaults, and fourteen burglaries, but
he was actually suspected of a lot more crimes beyond

(02:17:04):
what they were able to prove.

Speaker 2 (02:17:06):
And they don't match. I mean, this is just a couple.
There's no you know, there's all there's young, there's male,
there's female. It doesn't matter to him. He doesn't care.

Speaker 1 (02:17:18):
So so he was arrested August thirty first, nineteen eighty five,
after fingerprints finally linked him to burglary. The trial was
highly publicized and emphasized strongly his satanic rituals and gruesome
crimes because he the one picture. For people that aren't

(02:17:43):
watching the video, it literally looks like somebody took a
paint brush with red paint and just all over a room.

Speaker 2 (02:17:53):
Arterials bright.

Speaker 1 (02:17:55):
Yeah, it was sorry that it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:57):
Was a victim, the victim. I showed the victims. I
showed that was the wrong case. Sorry, back to this guy,
but this is my diagnosis.

Speaker 1 (02:18:07):
Yes, one hundred percent, he's definitely possessed because he was
very focused on uh, Satanic and Satanic rituals and all
of that stuff, and like the one picture leaving the
pentagram and uh, if I'm not mistaken, he was another

(02:18:29):
one that I would.

Speaker 2 (02:18:33):
Do the net crow. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure. And
so they really say that he would scale buildings and
jump over six feet tall fences, and he they said
he had superhuman strength. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:18:54):
It could have been the drugs, whatever kind of drugs
he was on, but that's not going to be able
to scale at the with one.

Speaker 2 (02:19:01):
Leap, one leap, so terrifying.

Speaker 1 (02:19:06):
He was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy, sexual sadism.
That he's not psychotic though, because he was aware right
and wrong fully competent for trial, had a substance abuse problem,

(02:19:27):
so he was on methaphetamine regularly, so he was Actually
he died in June of twenty thirteen from natural complications
from lymphoma.

Speaker 2 (02:19:46):
And the only necrophilic action that they know of. Not
to say that the ones they don't know happened to
be a seventy nine year old Jenny vin Cow and
she was one of the ones from a home invasion
that he actually did leaving the pentagram, so I'm assuming
from this one or one like it. People also say

(02:20:11):
that he literally smelled so bad that some of the
people actually that survived identified him as stinking to high Heaven,
like there was a weird odor about him, which I'm
saying his possession.

Speaker 1 (02:20:28):
I'm sorry I was gonna say, because you know that's
a common thing with possession, is that you have that
weird aroma to you.

Speaker 2 (02:20:39):
Scary, Yes, scary. He's a terrifying one.

Speaker 1 (02:20:46):
So he was into rape mutilation, and torture obviously from
the one room that had the blood everywhere, sexual gratifide,
from domination, control, and extreme violence. So yeah, he's a

(02:21:10):
bad guy.

Speaker 2 (02:21:11):
You guys, check that one out. He really is possessed,
I think.

Speaker 1 (02:21:15):
So people were when that was going on. People were
terrified because they don't have air conditioning in California, so
people would leave their windows open, and that's what he
would always come in, like their windows or sliding door
whatever because they have a screen on them. But that's

(02:21:39):
like his his thing, and so like pretty much the
whole state of California, even not around where he was,
but the whole state of California was in a panic
over this guy because everybody left their windows and doors
open at night.

Speaker 2 (02:21:57):
He did say if they had a dog would also
bounce out. That was one of the things that would
deter him as well, a dog or if your door
was locked.

Speaker 1 (02:22:09):
Yeah you can't get in. He didn't want to try
too hard.

Speaker 2 (02:22:13):
Yeah, I guess he would just move on to the
next guy, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:22:19):
So the next one we have is Dennis Raider or
the BTK Killer.

Speaker 2 (02:22:24):
Oh BTK BTK is so freaking weird, like, so he's
another one.

Speaker 1 (02:22:35):
That was a chameleon. He was very good blending and
he was very very involved in church activities, married children,
kept a job, intelligent whatever. So BTK, for people that
don't know, is bind torture kill. That's why they called

(02:23:00):
him BTK because that was his MO.

Speaker 2 (02:23:03):
That's we're going to have screens for a while because
my computer decided I can't view my images.

Speaker 1 (02:23:10):
So it's good.

Speaker 2 (02:23:11):
Move along.

Speaker 1 (02:23:15):
So he was born nineteen forty five in Pittsburgh, Kansas.
His parents were normal but very strict, and he had
some like behavioral issues growing up, but nothing alarming. I guess, well.

Speaker 2 (02:23:37):
Not as alarming as it gets. I don't know if
you can.

Speaker 1 (02:23:41):
Can you see a lot of kah, This is BTK images.
But I mean his parents they weren't drug addicts or abusive,
no sexual assault, nothing like that. So they were normal.
They were just rigid in their rules. Which, hello, that's

(02:24:01):
the era that you grew up in, is that you
had chores to do and whatever. I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:24:11):
We'll see if that saves because yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24:15):
So he married a lady of two kids, active in
the church and in the community, presented as a model
citizen right. He was known to spy on neighbors and children.
That's like his behavior growing up. His behavior issues, so

(02:24:41):
just looking at people I don't know, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:24:46):
I'm spying on them while they're doing their thing.

Speaker 1 (02:24:49):
And then it went from there to fantasizing about control
and dominance. That's where he developed his fantasies for binding, torturing,
and killing women at a young age, which he suppressed
for a very long time. And he talked about this
a lot, where it's been part of him since his

(02:25:12):
early childhood, but he didn't do anything about it.

Speaker 2 (02:25:17):
He was so normal too, like quite quote like I
feel bad because his daughter speaks out a lot, and yeah,
it's sad.

Speaker 1 (02:25:28):
So he worked in compliance and safety related jobs. So
he was a very smart guy, very well educated. It
seemed very normal, very successful family, ma'am. But he had
this dark side. He loved to target women, especially people

(02:25:50):
who were single or vulnerable. Crimes were very planned out.
He was uber methodical. This is the guy that literally
diaried and documented everything and observed like their timelines when
they come and they go. His his diary was very detailed.

(02:26:14):
So along with the detailed notes he would write down
in this diary of his what he was fantasizing about
doing to that particular victim.

Speaker 2 (02:26:29):
So super and he didn't have a type either, right.

Speaker 1 (02:26:34):
No, it was mostly women, but he also did kill
some some man.

Speaker 2 (02:26:42):
And it was they didn't this is for him. I
showed it too early, the last one. But he killed
their kids too. They didn't put that on here, but
he did.

Speaker 1 (02:26:54):
Yes, he did, like slaughtered the entire.

Speaker 2 (02:26:58):
And I think that kid came home from school.

Speaker 1 (02:27:01):
Yeah, so this is the guy that I said before
would taunt law enforcement and he would literally send them pictures.
He'd send them diary pages about you know, what he planned,
what he did, how he felt. And the thing that

(02:27:26):
got him caught after years and years of taunting the police,
he sent them a floppy disk, which anybody that's like
our age should know what a floppy disk is. But
it used to be like this very thin like paperish
kind of discs that you put into the computer to

(02:27:50):
like save information on. He sent that to the police,
and the police, thankfully we're finally able to track that
back to him.

Speaker 2 (02:28:00):
And I think somebody images are from that disc if
I remember correctly. Yes, he liked to be weird and
dress up all creepy and tak these weirdo pictures. So
I just want to know who took them, because back
then you couldn't really do it by yourself.

Speaker 1 (02:28:19):
No, because the only thing that you had was an
instant polaroid.

Speaker 2 (02:28:24):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:28:27):
Somebody had to take those for you because that the
other cameras didn't exist back then. So was there somebody
else involved in this.

Speaker 2 (02:28:43):
Or that one where he's hanging there? I'm like, good heavens.

Speaker 1 (02:28:47):
Yeah, So this guy had like a fetish which I
guess modern day would relate to shabari, which is rope tying.
That's what most of these are, where he's tied with
ropes in certain ways, tied to a chair, hanging from

(02:29:10):
a tree.

Speaker 2 (02:29:12):
What is married almost like though, like these ones, they're
weird in the middle. I don't know if there are
people that you know were gone or if it's him.
I think it's him. I'm pretty sure these are all
of him. But makes you wonder if this person doesn't
look like him though, if this is the other person
involved in the photos, that's my guess.

Speaker 1 (02:29:36):
So this guy was responsible for ten murders between nineteen
seventy four and nineteen ninety one. That's a really long
stretch only have ten. I'm just saying compared to these
other people where it's like seventeen people in a year.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:29:55):
I think he was trying to keep it on the
DL just for his kid. He's really she has very
fond it's sad, you know, memories.

Speaker 1 (02:30:06):
So he was arrested in February of two thousand and five,
like I said, from sending the floppy disk to the police,
and they finally traced it back to him. He's another
one that didn't think he would ever get caught because
church goer, upstanding member of the community, live in a

(02:30:28):
double life, all of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:30:31):
Chased it back to his church, you guys. He thought
he was too smart.

Speaker 1 (02:30:38):
So he is actually still alive today. He's serving ten
consecutive life sentences without parole. He was diagnosed with antisocial
personality disorder. He exhibited psychopathy and sexual sadism, but that

(02:31:02):
was it for him.

Speaker 2 (02:31:03):
He did he have OCD. I can't remember if he did,
but I swear he did.

Speaker 1 (02:31:08):
Those were the only things. Oh yeah, yeah, I did.
So it said his obsessive compulsive traits were because he
was like meticulously planning and documenting everything and drawing pictures
of like how he wanted to buy somebody or what

(02:31:30):
he wanted to do whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:31:32):
So sending like Barbie dolls to the police all tied
up weird, and he was really effing with the police,
like I'm saying, like you play stupid games, bro like well,
and for.

Speaker 1 (02:31:46):
Quite a long time, because, like it said, his his
spray went on for what was it seventy four to
where did it go?

Speaker 2 (02:31:59):
Didn't you say ten years.

Speaker 1 (02:32:00):
Between nineteen seventy four and nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 2 (02:32:05):
Oh, that's even okay.

Speaker 1 (02:32:06):
So he taunted police literally that entire time, and.

Speaker 2 (02:32:16):
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (02:32:17):
Somebody wasn't very good at their.

Speaker 2 (02:32:19):
Job, I guess, yeah, no kidding, no kidding, he should
have quit while he was ahead. Like, but I do
think his daughter makes a good case for you know,
like he was trying to be good. I mean, I
don't know. Yeah, it's sad in a way, but like

(02:32:40):
the demons are gonna get out one way or another.

Speaker 1 (02:32:44):
Well, and his was very different from everything else because
he didn't have trauma or abuse or you know, drugs
or any of that stuff going on in the home
when he was growing up. He just had strict parents.

Speaker 2 (02:33:03):
And he was an asshole dog catcher something. So what
was the deal?

Speaker 1 (02:33:11):
What made him snap and what got him to the
way that he was and where did these fetishes come from?
I would say that he probably was watching Born.

Speaker 2 (02:33:30):
Out of all of the serial killers, him and Geen
are most close for me, like very strange, you know,
with the whole that is she you know thing?

Speaker 1 (02:33:41):
Yeah, yeah, because the other ones were not they were
very different. In this case is so different for me
because I can't I couldn't find anything in his past
that would have explained his like what happened impulsivity and

(02:34:03):
his inability to which I guess even I guess he
did control it for a very long time.

Speaker 2 (02:34:10):
But no, no brain injuries like no, you know what I.

Speaker 1 (02:34:15):
Mean, nothing, And most of these people don't have any
kind of mental or medical issues or anything like that.
It wasn't discovered until after they were in prison. Other
than Eileen.

Speaker 2 (02:34:34):
Okay, okay, well I'll tell you guys, the one that
I think for sure is the most evil was Ramirez.
I really, for people that don't believe in possession, I
don't know how you can explain that. I think he
was possessed so.

Speaker 1 (02:34:50):
Well, and he was always like drawing some kind of
symbol or he would mail things. I think he's another
one that taunted the police. He would mail like weird
things to the No, that was the zodiac. That was
a different one. Oh okay, it wasn't Ramirez.

Speaker 2 (02:35:10):
But here it's just strange now.

Speaker 1 (02:35:12):
But there was always some kind of like symbolism or
whatever that he would leave with the crime scene. And
I'm pretty sure he carved a pentagram into one of
his people.

Speaker 2 (02:35:28):
So yikes, So we're going to continue this little load
of fun. If you guys like, wait till you hear
about Israel Keys. He was a Mormon, and some of
the ways these people even go out on their own,
it's very very weird. So yeah, you know, psychopathy of

(02:35:55):
people that are criminally insane, it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (02:35:58):
I think it is fast because I'd like to know
what makes people tick, you know, And some of the
stuff I can understand, like like the trauma or the neglect,
the abandonment or whatever, because that creates all kinds of issues.

(02:36:19):
But this last one that was a that was a
one off for me.

Speaker 2 (02:36:23):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, there's some that don't fit the
same as the others. So, but you know, I think
that overall it shows don't be enmeshed with your children,
especially if you're a mother, fathers. There's a reason why
in the Bible it says to be the strong household.
That doesn't mean strong, that means strong, Like you're teaching

(02:36:45):
your son how to or daughter how to be strong
and love them still and still have both sides of that, right, right,
And it's important. Yeah, it's so important. And obviously none
of us have perfect arning skills because we're all born
to imperfect people. So all we can do is go
from here on out if you've had any issue, and

(02:37:08):
I can.

Speaker 1 (02:37:09):
Literally do our best or try to do better than
what we were raised.

Speaker 2 (02:37:15):
Absolutely, absolutely, one hundred percent. That's why grandchildren are such
a blessing because I feel like that's your chance to
repair some of it in the child way. You can
repair in the adult with the adult children, but with
the child, I think them seeing you love your grandchildren
in a certain way or be different, you know, it's

(02:37:36):
a lot better. So yeah, I agree, we're.

Speaker 1 (02:37:40):
All miss Heidi. Where could people think you at?

Speaker 2 (02:37:45):
Yes? Of course, thank you for staying up so late
and doing this with me. I had quite the night
last night. Yes, yes, so you can find me. I'm
everywhere podcasts are served, Heidi love of the Unfiltered Rise
and if you want more of me, you can go
to my Patreon, and there is these shows often there

(02:38:07):
because I can't just go flinging these on YouTube. People
like this is especially Yeah, we can do that. You're
gonna want to catch these there, and I think they're
really interesting and you know, these medical series really help
delve into all kinds of fun things that I don't
think people think about on a daily basis, and they're informative.

(02:38:28):
You get to learn, So I mean there.

Speaker 1 (02:38:32):
Yeah, agree in it.

Speaker 2 (02:38:34):
Where can they find?

Speaker 1 (02:38:35):
You find Deplorable Nation on every podcast platform or if
you want to watch the video versions, check me out
on Spotify or Rumble. You can check out the audio
version on every podcast platform, and you can hit me
up on Instagram at diploab Janet or on Twitter at

(02:38:56):
no Janet. Know. So, ladies and gents, we do quite
enjoy the Serial Killers because it's very interesting learning about
their backgrounds and learning about their lives and what could
have led them down the right path. So we hope

(02:39:19):
you enjoy this series. We just thought it was a
good idea because we're both like and spooky.

Speaker 2 (02:39:26):
Seasons just barely over. Don't worry, we won't stay morbid
for long.

Speaker 1 (02:39:31):
That's true. So for me and for Heidi, thanks for
tuning in again for another episode, and go make sure
you go like, subscribe, comment, share, download both of our
stuff and we will see you next time. So thank
you again for listening, and have a good night.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Betrayal: Weekly

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}235. The Making of Madness & Murder

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Betrayal: Weekly

All Episodes

235. The Making of Madness & Murder

Stuff You Should Know