237. Satanism to Saved in Utah

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm awake, are you. I wonder how many miles I've fallen.
It seems I'll get to the center of the yearth curious,
isn't it? And really nothing is quite impossible. Let's go
now to our new episode of the Unfiltered Rise with
Me Heighty Love. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode

(00:23):
of the Unfiltered Rise with Me Heidi Love. And today
I have with me somebody I've already talked to, but
we were with JJ, not the Vice President. He is
another JJ, but he isn't haha. Jacob J from Rise
to Liberty Podcast and Beware the mocking Bird Substack. How
you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I am doing absolutely wonderful. It is beautiful fall weather.
It's you know, the government shut down and it started
raining again for some reason, which is strange, you know
obviously is not related. But yeah, I'm doing No.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
They were flying late late late, yeah, midnight, they've been flying,
so makes me wonder what they're doing up there. If
the government's shut down, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Right, how are those jets still flying? Yeah? Yeah, I'm
not too far away from it either. So and my
wife works up there, so it's uh, yeah, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
When I found out your background, I was more than intrigued,
and we've had some great talks with JJ and I
just think this is really important for people to understand
because I don't think people fully understanding Utah that this
can a happen in Utah, which I know I'm stringing
them along and I'll let you talk about it, but
b how deep these roots go? And that's what we're

(01:34):
going to talk about today because Jacob, you have a
very interesting backstory. Would you like to tell my listeners
a little bit about it?

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah? So, I mean I am a Utah native born
and raised, born in Ogden, raised kind of all over
the place in this region, and of course I was
born into the LDS Church and raised in the LDS
Church and didn't or was pretty pretty well involved. I

(02:08):
mean I definitely didn't have the typical LDS upbringing, that's
for sure, but I wasn't quite so sheltered, you know,
kind of kind of like I didn't live in that
Mormon bubble, and so I kind of had the the
inside and the outside, you know. Okay, you know, I
was the child of a single mother and you know,

(02:29):
just kind of acting out nothing crazy, but you know,
I was growing my hair out and It was about
down to my shoulders at the time, and I was
I remember this day so clearly. I was standing directly
in front of a portrait of Jesus in in uh
in the board, and I had a little old man

(02:50):
who I had previous experience with, who was who was nice,
but at this point he looked at me and uh
call me, well, a very a gay slur. I'm not
sure if I can say that on your show or not,

(03:11):
but it was just interesting, the gay slur that starts
with an F, by the way. And I literally turned
around and looked at the portrait of Jesus, who had
long hair. I could not rationalize it in my mind,
and I just I couldn't accept it. And that's when
I started questioning everything. And then because I was already

(03:32):
rebellious at that point, you know, it just kind of spiraled.
And I think I was like fourteen by the time
I like officially left the church.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Did you ever have your patriotical blessing or do baptisms
for the dead? By chance?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I did, yep, yeah, weird. Hey, I never talked about
my patriarchical blessing. But since you're a next member, why not, right, right? Right, Yeah,
some psychic shit. That's some crazy psychic.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Shit it is, and everything leading up to it, Like,
I look back on it now and I felt strange.
At the time, it didn't it didn't feel wrong, but
it felt strange. It wasn't a good feeling or a
bad feeling necessarily. It was just way, way.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Different, way more than what we'd ever been let into
in our right capacity, because they don't prepare us for
anything magical. In fact, they pooh pooh everything magical. But
then they still do that, and I find it kind
of I feel like, for me anyway, I'll let you
say what you feel, but for me, I felt like
it was a way to control us, like, well, you

(04:36):
better do everything or you won't get your blessing, you know.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Right, And so it definitely felt like a part of that,
but it also kind of felt very occultisihan. What I mean,
what specifically I mean by that is that it was
you're going to learn this secret knowledge you know, you're
and it was the way it was framed to me
as a young man was that this is just part

(05:00):
of growing up and being a man, you know, and
being in the church. And so when I was baptized.
I actually was baptized at ten years old, not eight,
which I find interesting. So it was my choice to
get baptized. And I still don't necessarily regret it. You know,

(05:20):
I was baptized by my grandfather and there's a whole
weird story there. But yeah, it's definitely not something I
regret necessarily. I wouldn't do it today.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Right, right, But we were kids, and you're trying to
make your family happy, and there are precious memories there,
like your grandpa.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Did it, yeah, and I was on Christmas Day.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
You know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, it's a whole tart right.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, and that's the thing. We want to make our
parents happy, right, that's like the full of Mormonism till
you're eighteen almost, Well, you were a little more early,
but I just my husband was like you, like at sixteen,
he had a staunch parents. They are one hundred and
ten in it, okay, right, I He's funny, he always
has been, like you. He's like, I think this is brainwashing,

(06:09):
Like this seems crazy. You guys don't live the Bible, like,
and he was rebellious as well. I mean there was
a reason behind some of it, but also he also
clued in so early where I always look back and
I'm like, I was so clueless, right, so clueless because
I wanted to please everybody.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Right, and there was definitely a part of that. And
so actually my dad was the one that put up
a protest against it. So my dad was raised LDS,
but he was not active by any means, you know,
more of the Jack Mormon thing. So still had church records.
And that's basically what I am, because I still have

(06:48):
my church records. But which just.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Wait till they find you. Oaks is out to ax
them all.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I'm not excommunicated either, right yet, I welcome it. The
whole reason why I haven't done, like remove the records
is I'm waiting for my day so I can be like,
you're all Satanists. Actually you're Loocifarians, but whatever, Okay. I
would love to be able to go in there and
be like, I know who you really worship and just

(07:18):
mess with them. And so I've waited because I wanted
to like have my moment, I guess because you know
that at that top level, they know, those councils know.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh yeah, well yeah, and you know the reason I
haven't gotten mine removed is just for one I thought, like, well,
they are some of the best people as far as
genealogy records go. And you know, I just I don't
really care if those records are kept. And somewhere along
the way, you know, somewhere down my family line, somebody's
gonna want to know and then there's going to be

(07:48):
a record of me. But if I did ever end
up getting excommunicated, then I could use that to my.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Advanced communicado exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
So you know, it's a win win for me. Either
you know, my future family has some record of me historically,
or I can turn it into great content so well, and.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
They will never remove you from the genealogy sites. Just fyi,
you know I can sign into family search without my
church record, although it's easier with it. Right, we'll say
that we can see a few more things being in
than out. But like, I welcome it, Oaks, fucking I
dare you, my god, I dare you? So I will

(08:32):
be making a fuss and I probably will have that recorded.
So and you know, no new name Noah did it.
Don't don't expect any less from.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Me, right.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Anyways, But you also kind of went on this crazy
ride after all of your leaving and everything, you ended
up in a little bit deeper situation with i've said
Satanism right now and Luciferianism. I'm not sure exactly your
backstory because I haven't heard it yet. I wanted to
wait and hear your story. So right, it got a

(09:07):
little deep, which I think is wild and awesome at
the same time that you still came out of it,
and that you are here today speaking against so many
things that does not happen. Right, I applaud it. I
applaud it.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Thank you. So yeah, you know, I was basically unaffiliated
from any religion at that point. I was, you know,
an edgy atheist, I guess, you know, kind of floated
between atheism and is agnosticism. You know, it's I don't
know if a god will like exists, but you know,
I always made the joke that, you know, if I

(09:43):
saw a burning bush that spoke to me, I would
have to I would have to say, okay, God does exist,
you know, or like I saw water to wine, I
would have to admit it. So I was kind of agnostic,
but other times I wanted to shock people and things.
And then when I was about twenty twenty one years old.
This point, I was totally living like a sex, drugs

(10:06):
and rock and roll lifestyle. You know, that's just not
world right, exactly exactly, and I still do. It's just
not so much debaucherated now, so rock and roll still
in my blood. I just can't help it. But I
was introduced to Satanism and it just really appealed to me,

(10:30):
and I found it naturally. I didn't have anyone introduce
it to me. It was just something that came across
my desk, and it was leave in Satanism that came
across my desk, because it almost seems like every young person,
if they are any sort of like rebellious teenager or

(10:52):
young adult, that that the Satanic Bible will come across
your somehow someway. Now, whether you pick it up or
not is an entirely different thing. I picked it up
and read the whole thing because I'm just a reader.
I literally read everything, well, not not fiction. Anything nonfiction

(11:14):
I hate.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Well, I did like it when I was young, but
not now. I don't have time for that.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Real life is way too interesting, you know, I don't.
I don't need fiction, so but any anything fiction I'll
pick up and read. And plus you know, I'm a
huge student of history, so I picked it up and
it just made a lot of sense to me.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
You know. Well, and don't you find it weird that
I feel like every exmo goes through the phase of
I'm an atheist and then they're like this doesn't really
fit me, and then they find like gnosticism or Satanic
And it's very simple transition because they are their own God, right,
and so we're kind of used to.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
That, right. And you know what's interesting. When I was
involved in the church, I actually had no clue about
the whole like own planet stuff, Like I didn't know
about any of that.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
They never give us the best parts. I think they
would have so many converts if they would just be like,
guess what, this is the Harry Potter version of Mormonism
and this is what Joseph wanted and then or you
can go to Stuffy Brigham's church. It's over there. But
right now, who would choose that over Joseph's church? Like,
if you were completely ignorant about anything dark, you would

(12:32):
think that was cool. Especially in Utah. Look at how
much they edify Halloween and everything.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's every single year is a
fight for the Halloween stuff. I'm a huge Halloween fan,
hence T shirt and everything.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
But yes, they started the Halloween stores here in like
the first of September.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Right right, So I mean back in the day, we
actually used to have a couple of year round Halloween
Halloween stores. So the fact that we don't now is,
you know, sad to me. But you know, I love Halloween.
I understand the satanic implications and all that. I get it,
but not everything is as people say that it is.

(13:16):
So there there can be an innocent Halloween. There genuinely can,
in my opinion. But but yeah, it is. It was
a pretty flawless transition, like you said it, and it
just made so much sense to me. And you know,
I was on this whole like like radical self ownership

(13:37):
and you know, no gods, no masters, you know, And
I am even now like.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
I'm a no masters.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. I am definitely like anti tyrannical,
anti authoritarianism and anarchist and so I am. Oh there
we go, so and.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
So many, so many of us. I feel that we're
controlled for so long ago Yeah no, no, I see
through you like you can only learn so much before
you go, okay, president.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
What about Yeah exactly, And so that's it's it's everything,
you know, the school system. I had issues in school
because of it, you know. And and also you know,
my my blood is you know, part Native and part Irish,
and so I have you know, under right, I have

(14:29):
eight hundred years of oppression from the English on one side,
and then you know, two hundred plus years of oppression
from uh, you know, anyone who wasn't native.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Basically are you the tribe of Ephraim as well, Jacob?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, I actually don't know, so you are.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
They were trying to make you. They were trying to
make people like you like you know that, right.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yes, yes I do. I mean, so, my my dad
was adopted. My dad was born sixty five here in Utah.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
And so i'm's age.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yes, I mean, I'm thirty three, the magical thirty three.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh, I'm nine years under your dad.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
So yeah, my mom is twelve years older than him, so.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
You know that's unusual and yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yes, yeah, yeah, And that's what I'm saying is I
kind of had the bubble, but I was outside the
bubble as well. So that's that your dad both perspective.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
That was Native American by chance, Uh, he's half That's
why protested. So that's why he protested the baptism.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
That makes so much art part of it. You know,
I think a lot of it is intuition, you know,
like we were kind of talking before. My dad is
an interesting character. Like I said, he was raised LDS.
But his protest to it was that, you know, I
was so young and didn't really understand the spiritual implications,

(16:02):
and he didn't want me to just in case that
was something I didn't want to do later in life.
So he went about it a terrible way, I'll just
say that, and by by no means was it a
he definitely shouldn't have gotten. Although looking back on it

(16:27):
now that that is one of the tiny handful of
things I can say that he was probably on the
right side of although I and I listened to his
arguments because I was a bit older, you know, I
was ten instead of eight, So I totally totally listened.
And once again, I still don't regret my decision. You know,

(16:47):
life's too short for regrets, but I definitely though those
are That's one of the few arguments him and my
mom had that. I'm like, Okay, that one I actually understand,
you know, I I'm not gonna make a big deal.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah it's a big deal. I get it. I get it.
He was probably doing what he thought was best. And
we you know, same with my family doing it when
they wanted to do it. And it sounds like we've
had similar I didn't get the staunch upbringing until my teenagers.
I had jack Mormon parents. I had to get baptized
by the neighbor. Like. There was a lot of drinking, drugs, partying,

(17:24):
crazy shit that I was just Actually that's what led
me into wanting to be perfectly Mormon, because I was like,
you people are not You guys are all crazy. You're
in jail every weekend. You know. This was when you
could go visit in jail and like get on the
phone and I would see my aunts with their freaking

(17:45):
toilet paper, hair curlers and cran makeup, and I was like, yeah,
that's not my life.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Uh oh, So my uncle was I don't know if
you know this, but my grandpa and my uncle were
both in the Sundowners. My grandpa was a one percent. Yeah,
they were top at the top. My uncle was the
secretary of the Sundowners.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
I've got some interesting stuff we'll have to talk about
off can. Yes.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yes, And it gets crazy because people would never expect
Utah to be this biker hub, but it is because I.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Do think like the whole Wasats Front pretty much anywhere
along Eye fifteen because it's a major corridor for trafficking
of drugs, weapons and kids. You know, it's pretty much
the entire Wassats Front any anywhere along Eye fifteen, and
you're going.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
To have problems. It's wild. The changes. I think they
had to spread it out because they were too much
of a like, well, you said it was hubs, right,
These hubs were like initiated clear back to al Capone.
Like people have no idea, People don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you're allegedly the story is at
least here that you know. Al Capone came to Ogden,
you know, and he stayed here for a few days
and then got back on the train and said this
town is too wild for him.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yes, it was too hard for al Capone, you guys, right,
Like what does that tell you about the Mormon mafia?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
WHOA right? Well, and it's interesting you you start looking
at some of that too, because you know, the mayors
of Ogden, a lot of them were Mormon or funded
by Mormons, and there were many, many, many corrupt mayors.
You know, Oh how much has changed? Although, well, did

(19:30):
I will?

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Did you carry about yesterday's little I did not. Oh,
Mett Romney's sister in law fell off a building. But
she didn't get pushed. Don't don't worry, she didn't, you
know what they said. I'm like, wait a minute, how
did how do you know that this was their literal?
They're like, first of all, they didn't find her for
three days.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I have questions, Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Second of all, it's a five story parking building. And
third of all, you're telling me, you know you I
don't know if it's s I okay, you know what
I'm saying, right, and you If it isn't that, then
it's an accident. But it's definitely nothing else.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Right, Okay, good police work, right, Yeah, and that happened here.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
No, it actually happened in Kelly, but I just Romney's
I'm just bringing it up because of the corruption in
the government. And I'm like, uh, then.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
It bothers me too, because the Romney family isn't native
to Utah, you know. And it's just because they're Mormon
that you know they have any connection to Utah at all.
And it bothers me so much. You know.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's because of the coalition with the Gays, right, that's
what it is, right, which got old boy Robert C.
Gay he was the son of Bill Gay, which worked
for Howard Hughes, but it got him kicked off the
Quorum of the seventy. Their little shenanigans. I didn't know
that Baine company, him and Romney were doing the dirty

(21:00):
loans and taking over everything, and you know that. It's
pretty well known now, and it got Romney in trouble,
and then it turned around and got you know, once
you make the seventy, you're pretty much in it for life,
if you may, and then you have your seventieth birthday
and then they can like cut you or not. But
no one gets cut. They cut him dude, Wow, like
not bro, you don't.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Get that's really bad.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Glenn coco did him? No and nothing for you, Glenn Cocoa.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, like what oh man, you have you have to
be bad? Wow, that's something, right, people? Yeah, Like what
nobody gets cut? Everything gets swept under the rug. And
so I mean they must have just been like super
sloppy or something, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Paper tail, that's bad.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
So through through this wild phace, did you ever meet
up with other people like to be come initiated or
like anything weird like that out here?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
So I definitely met with other people and other Satanists.
You know, there there are all sorts of actions out here.
I don't necessarily want to say cults, but they definitely exist.
But once again, I was still on the whole no
authoritarianism thing, and so even within being a Satanist, I
was still like, I'm not about to bow to anybody.

(22:28):
I do not, I'm not you yeah, right, like, And
so I even amongst that, because you know, I definitely
had some people try to like initiate me into a
group and stuff, and it's like no.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
No, just so you're your own man, yeaheah.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
And so even amongst the Satanists, I was still like
fiercely independent and a lot of them didn't like that.
So you know, I got a lot of push back,
you know, but they they want, you know, And honestly,
this is kind of what led to a few people
trying to get me to become leaders of things, and

(23:05):
I feel like, I know I'm a natural born leader,
but the problem is is I don't want to lead
other people on their spiritual journey. Once again, the fiercely
independent thing. It was always like, I'm doing this for me,
not for you guys. So and that's why I actually
behaved in Satanism and as a Satanist, entirely differently than

(23:27):
most people, because to me, it always just seemed like, okay,
So for anyone who doesn't know that, the whole grand
point of Satanism or Luciferianism, any of it is basically
ultimate hedonism. Okay. So it's whatever makes you happy, whatever

(23:47):
makes you feel good, all of these things, okay. Now,
the most important thing has always been to me family,
And so even as a Satanist, I was still serving
my family. I still want to to like create a
legacy in all of these things. You know, my focus
making me feel good was making my family happy.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Because even if you're a Satanist, look, that doesn't mean
you hate everyone or everything they have community Like people
have the wrong idea and I'm not advocating. They're already
mad at me for the witch trial stuff because I
said Mary East was innocent, and she was. The people
that were accusing were the people guilty, which is stupid.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
But right.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
So I'm apparently in trouble because of this. But what
I'm saying is I'm not saying Satanism is good. I'm
just saying they have their own community, or there wouldn't
be a dang group.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, right, one hundred percent. And here's the thing is,
I will go out on a limb and say this
is most Satanists, like I, eighty eighty percent of any
Satanists that you ever run into are going to be
genuinely good people. They might be brash, they might be
you know, a bit off putting depending on what type

(25:01):
of life you lead or whatever. They might look spooky,
but they are genuinely good people.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
And they're just the outliers of society basically, right, And
that is what attracts them.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
And a lot of people have been burned by religion
in some way, regardless of what Christian faction it is,
and so they don't see any of the good that
comes from it, and so they gravitate towards, you know,
a group or an ideology that welcomes them with open arms.
So most Satanists you meet will be incredibly nice people

(25:38):
that would give you the shirt off their back. So
that's just a fact. Now, the people who are the
Satanists that anyone would want to stay away from, you'll
never know. You'll never know who they are, I promise you,
because they won't look like Satanists. Not all of these people,
very very tiny, tiny amount of people actually look like

(25:59):
Anton Levey or Michael Aquino. You know, these are extreme
rarities where they are high up, they believe this to
whatever extent, and they actually look like Satanists. That is
incredibly rare that the people that are genuinely scary people
dressing dockers and button up shirts.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, they have the ties on. You should be concerned
about the guy in the three hundred dollars suit.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yes, it's the people more lend in. And that's not
to say that you know, these people won't let their
hair down, so to speak, because they do. But and
there are also those people out there that you know,
look like Anton Lavay that wear it on their sleeve.
I guess is a way to put.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
It, like a badge.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, badge, Yeah, because some people just don't give it
give you know, whatever, so you can okay, okay, good
to know. Yeah, some people just don't give a shit.
They just don't. And I was one of these people,
like I wore it proud like a badge. And so
there are those people. But the people you need to

(27:09):
be concerned about blending, Mike, That's what I'll say.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
My hardened, biker crazy family, the ones I mentioned, they
were some of the most tender people I ever met.
And and it's really funny, yeah, because people would look
at my uncle or my grandpa and they're like, but
he's scary, and I'm like, well, or they'd say is
he a good guy? I'm like, well, he's good to me.

(27:35):
I mean, I don't know how he'll be with you.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
You know, I don't know. It depends if you can
get him to respect you were not you know.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
And but you know, I felt way more judgment from
my family that was very Mormon, right.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So yes, yeah, I've received way more judgment from any
more in faction. Clearly now my family, I will stick
up for them, you know, even though I am on
my own path. They have never once, you know, put
me out because of that. So yeah, but I think

(28:14):
that's kind of an exclusive to my family. It's not
the norm, you know, and that's that's my understanding. So
I am incredibly lucky that way, and I do think
it is luck because it's not the norm, but this is.
And we kind of had this discussion on JJ's show
where I think that there's a big difference between LDS

(28:35):
and Mormon. Mormon is every stereotype you've ever heard, and
then LDS people, you would probably never even know that
that's their faith unless you asked or it got brought
up somehow, or you went to their house and saw
like LDS paraphernalia, a paraphernalia. Outside of that, they're not

(28:58):
going to talk about it. It's their face and it's
something that they believe and they do it for themselves, which,
in my opinion, is what people should treat religion like,
regardless of what you believe.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, of course, of course. And so you got into
this deep, we'll say, kind of darker situation, and you know,
were you into the ritual, like, were you doing like
group things? Do they have that in Utah? Like? I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
So I never attended any group thing. Once again, just
fiercely independent and I always felt like and and to
answer your question outright, Yes, I I might, I myself
did perform psychodrama magic, which is is real. By the

(29:48):
by the way, I'm just going to get this out there.
Magic is real. It's not what you think it is, Okay,
it's it's a lot of intention and it's a lot
of you know, uh, it's like that's.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
All in your head.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yes, but there is self manifestation. Yeah, and and so
it's it is psychodrama though you know, the very basic
levels of it is to freak out Christians. The more
intense levels, you know, is is really for yourself and
self manifestation. So you know, books like The Secret, you know,

(30:27):
which was huge here in Utah. That's that's magic. That's
that's what it is. Now, whether you believe it or
not is an entirely different thing, because everyone needs to
remember it's not what you personally believe, it's what other
people believe. And so it didn't matter if anyone believed
what I was doing. It mattered that I believed it,

(30:48):
and at the time I did well.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
And you're tapping, I mean, I'm a dimension girl. You're
tapping into another ether. You know that isn't available to
normal people, but it's there. Doesn't mean it's not there,
you know, right.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Well, And because you won open yourself up to it,
it makes it more strong. And then you add the
intention behind it, it makes it stronger. And so this
this is kind of what magic is and it does exist.
So I performed rituals for myself, you know, along with

(31:24):
you know, the Satanic Bible. There's there's also a book
of spells that go along with it. And then I
also have or hat well actually I still have my
copies because I'm never getting rid of them. But I
also have a copy of the Necronomicon, which is the
Book of the Dead for anyone who doesn't know, not
the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but it is kind

(31:45):
of related sort of.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
But it is a lot of controversy on that.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
YEAHOK, but yes, So I personally did perform rituals and
did the alter thing and all of this. I was
invited to events, which is typically what they're called, nothing
like stereotypical like ooh, come out to the woods, you know.

(32:11):
And anytime that I was invited out to the woods,
it was always a rave and I never went because
I don't like raves. It's not my scene. Never was
I was. You would always find me in a bar
or a punk rock club or going to heavy metal shows,
you know, that's where you would find me, or or
a bird stiky lounge back in the day, you know,

(32:31):
so that that's where you'd find me doing really bad karaoke,
you know. But yeah, so I was invited to some things,
so I never went, but I didn't know that they exist.
So these these things do happen. I personally never had

(32:53):
any interaction with like animal sacrifice or anything, thank god.
But it does happen, and it happens here in Utah.
It's not uncommon.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So cays cross right right.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Right, Yes, CA's cross. I mean there's all sorts of places,
and a lot of them are actually religious sites or
sites where horrific crimes have happened. Or I mean, people
will also pick random places, you know, random parks. Now
that also doesn't mean that, you know a group of

(33:30):
teenagers in a park you know at ten pm are
a bunch of Satanists.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
So except in Utah, No, just kidding, right right, Like
you said, the ones we gotta worry about are.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
At home, right, Yeah, these these happen, the bad things
really do, genuinely happen at people's houses, and it's in
the very rich neighborhoods. Because you need a massive house
to perform a lot of these things. It's going to
have special rooms. You got to have storage for the
costumes and a way to dispose of leftovers, which is like.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
The Osmond's uh special room. If anybody missed that photo, yikes.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, and which you can't find that photo anywhere, which
I find interesting. I've tried looking, and I have a copy,
but I always like to go and look at things
and see if I can find them later. No, it's
scrubbed man.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
For anybody that doesn't know, just think of this completely
tiled from head to toe ceiling, everything all in this
white subway tile, basically with an altar two spec of
the altar in the temple and as the altar yep.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yep, the ones.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
And they they just it's just this kill room. Honestly,
that's what it looks like. They said, sauna.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
It's I've been in many sonnets. I love sonnets, never
been in one look like that.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I think it was a massage room, steam rooms. Can
you imagine adding baby oil to that room? Now you're
not doing massages in there, come.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
On right, and I mean baby oil, you know, ceramic
tiles like somebody's slipping and hurting, you know.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
So one one thing I will say about, you know,
my involvement in some of this stuff is a lot
of it. And this is something I don't think a
lot of people talk about, but it makes sense when
it's brought up. Is a lot of this actually happens
through the drug culture as well. And the reason why,
at least my understanding of that now is because it's

(35:41):
a lot easier to control people when they're drinking and
they're drugging. That's just how it is. Absolutely, it's even
just innocent with marijuana or whatever, which you know, okay,
spark up a dube if you're an adult and you're
not driving anywhere, I don't care. But opportunistic people, which

(36:02):
is what any sort of evil person is, is opportunistic
will use any and all tools that they have to
be able to get you in a vulnerable position. Absolutely,
and so it's not just the drug. It's not like ooh,
drug culture is this, you know, it's it's opportunistic people
with bad intentions, Okay.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Addictive, Yeah, if you've got somebody that's truly addicted to
not pot something for real, Right, those people are going
to be easy to get.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Right, right, and and you know people can also be
exploited in many different ways, and this is typically how
like the MK ultra stuff happens, you know, through like
the military or whatever is money. You know, we were
talking before we started recording that, you know, things are
just bad all over financially for everyone. You know, it's
just it's so rough. And so somebody approaches you. It

(36:54):
offers you ten grand to do something that doesn't seem
that bad, but the implication of you doing it are
really bad. You just don't know it. You get paid
the ten grand because you need it, and that's how
they get people in still a contract, right, and the
same way works with a lot of these people wanting
to do bad things. Bonfires were particularly a safe haven.

(37:21):
That's where I was approached large like gathering bonfires. Been
to many bonfires where I wasn't approached by things. But
the times I were approached by other Satanists were typically
this time of year at a bonfire, So of course
I was approached other times. But yeah, I mean this

(37:44):
is the height. Right, We're close to Halloween, which is
a big holiday. Not the only big one, but a
big one nonetheless. And so yeah, that was definitely where
I was approached, Like, hey, let's go out to the woods,
drink some beer, you know, I listen to music really loud,
and start a bonfire. That happens a lot also out

(38:05):
in the West Desert, you know, that happens out there,
which a lot of things take place out there, not
not even with Satanists, just a lot of bad things
happen out in the West Desert because well there there's
no cell service, you know, good luck, don't don't there
people you don't trust. Period.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Oh yeah, I've heard some burning Man stories that are
very some interesting stuff, and I'm sure that's just more
you know, popularized, but like I'm sure it happens.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
You know, it's not all and love.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
There is a joke with the bikers about who they
take to the desert, but you know, it's not a
place i'd want to be at dark, that's for sure, right.
I Mean, Utah is weird enough already. It's Yeah, there's
a lot of desolate places here and very strange because
we got desert, but we've also got mountains and lake

(39:03):
forest and like there's a lot of no man's land.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
We'll say that, a lot of empty mines too.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yep. Scary scary stuff. And you know, like you said,
I mean you obviously weren't participating in these group activities.
Doesn't mean you weren't there, you know, it doesn't mean
you weren't seeing the networks that are forming. And I
find it fascinating, Like especially you brought up rave culture
and where do they go? They go to Saltair and

(39:34):
what is Saltaire? It is weird, man.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yes, that the Saltaire, And I mean nowadays from my understanding,
because you know, I still have some feelers out there,
and a lot of the raves and everything, from what
I understand, are pop ups, which means that they just
happen in a random location. You know, people get send
out the text message of where it's going to be

(39:57):
and a lot of this happens out in the these
remote areas now and that's just rife for criminal activity
of all kinds. But the way that these networks really
develop is just friendships with people. You get friendly with somebody.
But the thing is is, you know, some of these people,
they target people, They target specific people, and that's why

(40:21):
I'm not liked or welcomed in any of these Satanic
groups or anything anymore. I'm too independent for them. They
don't like it, you know, they can't control me, and
I'm not willing to become a leader of anything, and
so that was part of the beginning of my fallout
with this, you know. So for anyone that doesn't know,

(40:43):
I'm no longer a Satanist, I found my way back
to Christ and I am just putting my feelers out
there trying to find my way. You know, once again,
it's deeply personal to me. I don't make it anyone
else's business. You know, it's you know, my relationship with
God and nobody else's.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
So.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
But you know, my fallout really came with that, because
you do need a community, right and I grew up,
you know, I changed my beliefs. I realized, you know,
not all of these beliefs are actually positive and it
doesn't lead anywhere good. Now, that doesn't mean I don't

(41:23):
agree with some of it still, because regardless of what
anyone thinks, some of their beliefs are good, just like
anything else, you know, but there are incredibly problematic beliefs
and it tends to make you anti human. You tend
to not like humanity at all. It's very egoistic and

(41:49):
so like you end up thinking you're just better than
everyone else, which is you know, just incredibly snobby. Once again,
there's that connection with the Mormons, you know, or any
other super religious person and so I don't know, it's
just it's just kind of interesting. But that was the

(42:09):
beginning of my fallout. Is just you know, I wasn't
welcomed by the community, so.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
And that makes it hard. Even though you were kind
of on your own, like you said, you know, you
were independent, but at some point they want allegiance. It's
just like anywhere you know, this is where I run
into problems because I love God, but do I belong
to a group? No, I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Well, and I'll even say this even within the research community.
You know, people want you to have certain allegiances and
they want you to hate you know, this this person,
or they want you to not trust this person and stuff,
and there's it's it's just a human social thing, right,
It's just how I think.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I think everybody knows I'm on the bad list there
well and why and why I bet you got told
all about me. And why is that because I refuse
to pledge allegiance right right.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
And it's weird.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, it's weird because we're all supposed to be the
badasses that are like, no, I don't conform right, and
then they.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
All conform right right, which is man Like I knew
there was something wrong with the church. You know, even
in scripture it talks about uh, the church being the
target of evil and being taken over by evil and
you need to watch for that. And so the fact
that like during during during the koof, you know, it

(43:42):
was so strange that so many members went along with
what the church said.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Even more strange that old Rusty told them all to
be good global citizens and go get the cares, right,
that was something I mean, if if we didn't know
they were part of the nWo before, that should have been.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
The clue I mean right right. And you know it's
crazy because if you know church history, you can watch
the slow progression of it becoming less and less about
the actual faith and more and more about evil things
like I mean, there's a general conference speech. I'm not
sure who who gave it off the top of my head,

(44:22):
but it was somebody who gave a speech directly about
how the UN is an evil organization and the Church
would never work with it. However, the Church is hand
in hand with the UN.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Now and they don't hide it anymore, right, I mean,
I think it got infiltrated, you know. I think it
was Benson that held on. I think it might have
been Benson that was like Ezer Taff Benson that was
like no, no, no, and then it all got flipped.
Not that he was perfect, I mean, right rotary, and

(44:57):
you know, I think he was a John Bircher and
he was definitely involved in the government, but I think
that's what clued him in.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Right well. And I mean, even shitty people can do
good things.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
I always have this saying, I swear I'm gonna put
it on a T shirt one time. But even Hitler
like dogs, you know. And it's like the point of
me saying that is like, even like some of the
worst people in history or whatever can do good. And
this is what makes it complicated. You know. Evil is

(45:34):
not cut and dry, and neither is good. It is
incredibly nuanced.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, And when you started learning all of your stuff,
and when you're doing these different things, these initiations or
spells or whatever you were doing. Did you have spiritual
like not spiritual? Did you see other worldly things? We'll
put it that way.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Not necessarily, However, I have always been an extreme EmPATH,
and so I can definitely pick up on vibes, you know,
And I can always immediately tell within five minutes of
meeting somebody if they're a good person or not. So
I mean, I do have like some sort of like

(46:21):
weird interconnected or interconnection with something bigger than myself.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
But you never called down like any spirit or like
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
I mean, I mean, all of it is like opening
yourself up to demons and evil spirits and things. Now,
I do believe that, you know, there there was one instance.
I do believe that I opened a portal to something
that I had no idea about how to close. This
was very early on, not something I'm proud of, but

(47:00):
it definitely had negative side effects since then, which is
also now that I've seen the negative side effects has
also led me down the path away from this because
shit starts getting too real, you know. And and so
I guess, yes, but it wasn't like that I never

(47:23):
saw anything or like you know, any physical manifestation or
like I saw a chair fly across the room. It
was wasn't It wasn't like that. It was. It was
just that things turned incredibly bad in that particular area,
not necessarily to anyone, but anyone that would be in

(47:46):
that area, I mean would have some incredibly bad things
happened to them. And I feel incredibly responsible for that.
And so so to answer your question, yes, I did
kind of experience that. At the time, it wasn't quite
so apparent. I mean, it took a long time for

(48:08):
a lot of this to set in, and it wasn't
an immediate thing. But also there were like outside influences too.
It was, without you know, giving too much away, there
was a in my opinion, a incredibly evil person that
was also involved in this, which was my intent at

(48:31):
the time, was trying to actually capture that person in
kind of like a metaphorical Genies lamp, because this person
was incredibly it was inflicting pain upon my life and
a close loved one, and I was trying to get
them locked in to where they wouldn't be able to

(48:53):
inflict the pain, and it just didn't go that way.
And and so that's unfortunately, you know the downside to that.
And so there it was good intentions even still, but
nonetheless it's just it's powers outside of our understanding, even
because it wasn't like I was dumb either, like I

(49:14):
knew what I was doing, but things just don't always
work that way.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Well, and maybe their power was you know, different, Like right,
there's always you know, whatever demon or thing or their
interpersonal power we never know, like it's battle, you know.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yeah, yeah, Well, and this this thing, because I'm going
to call this this uh physical manifestation of thing, it
was an evil incarnate in person, you know, and genuinely
this is also kind of what made me step away
from all of this, is because once you see evil,

(49:50):
you cannot deny the existence of God. In my opinion,
I mean, I've heard people argue otherwise. I think they're stupid,
you know, but once you genuinely face evil like that,
you just can't deny the existence of God. And so therefore,
like I got to the conclusion of, like, well, if
God exists, then I'm on the wrong side of this,

(50:13):
and that's really what started me down the path and
walking away and reevaluating what I believe in all of
this so it Yeah, so that's kind of what got
me started. And to answer your question, yeah, I've I've
definitely seen these things, and that's what got me away
from it because I realized, either I embrace this and

(50:34):
just kind of accept it, and also then I'm also
agreeing with evil and that's just not who I am.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Right, you aren't doing it for that purpose and just
right as right. And we spoke before we rolled about
how you can feel things after the fact. I very
much feel this and I will not and it's personal
for everyone. I will not go back in an LDS
building and it's just a feeling. It's there's nobody there

(51:06):
that's like scaring me or people aren't coming out for me.
It's just this feeling. It's heavy.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Right after doing Baptism for the Dead, I will never
step in step foot in another temple that genuinely scared me.
When I was let's see, I think I was eleven, yeah,
eleven or twelve when I went and did it, and
at the time I thought it was fun, it was cool.
It was like, oh, I'm doing like this church outing

(51:34):
and all of this stuff, and then like the whole
Baptism for the Dead room freaked me out, you know,
and it was it just seems so much bigger than
what I was and old, and.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
It's in a basement of course.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Well and what was so so I'm deathly afraid of water,
like deep water. Okay, so I've almost drowned twice in
my life, which I later ended up becoming a lifeguard,
you know, because you know, I know what it feels
like to almost dround. So I figured, let's learn how
to swim and try and protect people, because that is terrifying.

(52:13):
But at the time when I was doing when I
was actually in the for lack of a better word,
the chalice, because it's a gigantic chalice, you know, held
up by golden ox. It just like the guy doing
it me like baptizing these spirits was so violent with it.

(52:36):
It wasn't It wasn't like a okay, here we go
and just like quick come back up. No, he was
like wa wa, like just throwing me in and it's
it deeply scared me because of my fear of water
and everything. And like it wasn't like okay, here's one, okay,
come up and breathe. It was like one, two, three,

(52:56):
and then like come up and breathe, and it was
like it was too much for me.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Right well, it's it's a creepy thing in general for
number one and number two. Like I do believe in
my opinion only that they're putting attachments onto us. We
do not know how these people lived, that they we
are acting in proxy for these things.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Right right, And I don't think you know, even the
guy performing it, I don't think he fully understands. I
don't think most of the temple workers at the time
truly understand. I don't think we understand what the implications are.
Somebody does, but I don't think the average person does.
Maybe the top top temple workers. Like but if you're

(53:40):
just there and you're.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Like with the group of kids, like you said, like
it's a bishop or somebody, they don't know. That's crazy.
They don't care either. They're just not their job, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Right well, and it's it's all fluffed up through flowery,
flowery language and also this need to you know, serve
God and like all of these different things, and they
do everything in their power to make you feel terrible.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
If you don't, you're very important, right, You're right important
person now and we're already the only true church on
the face of the earth, and we get told that
all the time. And then you know, you're extra important
if you're born in and you're more extra important if
you have the pioneer heritage and all these things, and
you know, at some point like how I mean, obviously

(54:31):
they're their own God, right.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Right, yeah, yeah, And it's you know, it's reminiscent of
like scientology to where you know, there's all these different
steps and levels and you know, if you know, in
in scientology, termination like if you go clear or become
a suppressive person or whatever, then you're kicked out all
the way. You have no contact with anyone. And it's

(54:56):
just so strange, and yeah, it's no wonder why, at
least from what I can tell, that membership kind of
seems to be fledgling, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Right, No, I think so. I do think there's a
lot of us like you and I where we're on
their books, but we're not there, right, you know, clearly, right,
mine was pure like they're gonna kick me out, like
I'm just I was waiting, right, yeah, weird.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Whatever, Well, and it's weird too because I mean some
people they kick out too, and then they end up
still working with the church, you know. So it's I
don't know. I do think blood lines, right.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Bloodlines, in my opinion, I think if you have a
certain bloodline, they're not going to chuck you out quite
as easy. Doesn't mean they.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Won't, right, yeah, if you become too much of a problem,
they will.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
And it's uh, I mean, I've been here a couple
of years being a big pain in the ass, but
and everybody knows. Like my neighbor was, like the relief
society president, she knew like all the I'm like, okay,
I'm just over here doing my thing. But they know.
And they're weird with my family, their word with my children,
like oh, don't play with that little ten year old,

(56:10):
right whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Suppressive person.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Yeah, And it's just weird to me that people would
even be that way. But they are. They say they're
not anymore, but they do it. They still do it.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Oh they do ye. I mean, you know, even with
my family that I've been so lucky with, there there
is this amount, this tiny amount of like, oh, you know,
like this person's not going to church every week, you know,
like we gotta be careful and you freethink are you,
I know, I know, how dare I? How dare I

(56:46):
not pledge allegiance?

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, it's actually scary to them because you know, I
think is like the whole beehive and the high mind,
and that's their whole spiel.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I mean, well and to be fair, you know, and
also to play the devil's advocate no pun intended. You know,
it is a scary thing because if this is what
they genuinely believe, then you know, people like us are
not going to be with our eternal family and so right,
and I personally believe that you know, for coming from

(57:20):
a corrupt church, that this this is definitely used as
brainwashing and mind control. Now see, I don't know how
you feel, because like even even the actual faith, like
if you just take the faith, take away all the
church and the politics, you know, I can't really say

(57:41):
that this is wrong or right or anything else. And
maybe that's just my journey. But once you add the
structure of the church on top of it, which is
a multi billion dollar industry by the way, and then
you add all the politics and the society on top
of it, I mean, anything good that does come from it,

(58:01):
in my opinion, not that there can't be anything, but
it's entirely overshadowed because it's being utilized by opportunistic people
who have bad intentions.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Isn't that the truth? And when did it begin? You know,
there's a quote from Taylor was the last name, I
think it's John Taylor, but he was talking about when
they initiated Skull and Bones at the University of Utah,
and I'm like, Okay, that's that's weird that he said.
They said there was a coup inside the church, that
they were taking over, and that they were going to

(58:37):
get people away from real Mormonism, right.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
And I mean there's a conference, one of the very
first conferences here in Utah. I actually sent you and
JJ the interview I did with Goel. Anyone who knows Goell,
I had him on and we had a beautiful conversation.
It's three hours long, so it's not a it's not
a qu one by any means, but we go through

(59:02):
a lot of church history and everything. And there was
a conference speech held by Brigham Young where he even
discusses the reason why they kept the priesthood secret is
because he was trying to protect it from basically people
that infiltrated the church, And I was like, that's incredibly interesting.
I mean, you know, take your own personal opinion on that,

(59:25):
whether he's the one that infiltrated in him and his ilk,
or if there was you know, somebody trying to save
the church or whatever. But it's just not so cut
and dry as people like to make it.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
I definitely think Brigham changed it with the Reformation. You know,
he made it into something that was secret and special
to them. But they will say, and this has been
on many, many, many things, that they have the only
form of true masonry and that they have the true
keys to everything.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
So right, and you know, whatever that is, I would
have to know what it is to be able to
dictate what is good and bad about it, because you know,
I'm a free thinker and I can think for myself.
And when once again, once you see true evil, it's inmistakable,

(01:00:15):
you know, you can point it out anywhere. And the
very last thing that got me away from Satanism was
actually was actually the whole trans movement, and not even
just the Trans movement. Because if you're an adult, like
I've got too much going on in my life to

(01:00:37):
really care what you do I'm gonna probably tell you
not to, but you don't have to listen to me.
But it was the kid's involvement and that's what got me.
Just I was just like this, this is evil, this
is human experimentation, and I can't accept that. And I
mean the you know, the Satanic Temple, this Church of Satan,

(01:00:57):
like all of these organizations are okay with it. And
you know that that's what like finalized my like, yep,
I'm out, I'm out. I have nothing to do with this.
God is real, God is good, and I want to
be on that side, not this side.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, anything that harms kids, Like honestly, I'm like you,
if you want to chop things off your body after
you're eighteen and whatever, hopefully you're mentally sound, which doesn't
usually even get evaluated that closely, but whatever, I don't care.
Just don't do that to little kids that have no
clue just because they like to play football in their girl.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Yeah right right. Tomboys are a thing, you know, you know,
and that doesn't mean yeah it is. It is that
the death of the tomboy is a genuine phenomenon. And
you know, my sister's a tomboy, even now, and you know,
if she was raised in a different family, god only
knows what would have happened.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
So my daughter likes to play football with the boys.
She is testing for her brown belt right now in
martial arts. She's definitely good, exactly like that. Yeah, but
she but it's not it's still kind of looked at. Oh,
you know, and then people put weird things in their
head and I'm like, that's not it. Don't don't listen

(01:02:17):
to that. That's stupid.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
You're just athletic, right well, and what what teenager didn't
go through some like weird like you, I don't like
my body, you know, all of us, you know, like
every single one of us go through this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
I'm still trying to get out of that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Right, I mean same. I mean there's a certain amount
of I hate this term, but body dysmorphia that I have.
So I like to eat well and attend the gym,
you know. So I mean there's a certain amount of
it that is normal, like you shouldn't like when you're unhealthy.
So and going through puberty is a healthy thing. But

(01:03:00):
I mean there are complications that can happen and it
feels strange, it's weird. It's new, you don't know it.
You're being forced to go through something you don't necessarily
want to go through. And then you add all of
this confusion from adults who are supposed to be trustworthy,
and it just makes it worse. And then you go
through surgical transformation like that that is like the personification

(01:03:24):
of evil in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Well, I think I think people really need to look
at the whole picture. Is the first transperson wasn't happy.
It's a mental thing. Like also with the death of
the tomboy, is the death of the cross stresser. And
I'm not trying to advocate for it, Okay, I just
I agreed. I'm just saying, like, what's the harm. It's

(01:03:50):
not at my house. I don't have to deal with that, right,
But you know, is it really to that level where
you're chopping things off that will absolutely give you a
lifelong urinary tract infection? You know, sepsis, all these problems.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Right, right, and then then you become a lifelong customer
of the pharmaceutical companies. And of course that's what they
would want, you know, because they create customers, not cures.
And so I mean, from that standpoint, it makes perfect sense,
But I just can't think of anything more evil than
taking advantage of the vulnerable, and that that's exactly what's happening,

(01:04:30):
and their their mental states are being manipulated. And honestly,
that's why today I focus so heavily on mind control
and propaganda and psyops, because I mean, if you control
the language, you control the mind. If you control the mind,
I mean, you control everyone's life. And I just I
can't take that. I do not accept that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Right, Right, It's true, And whether it's religion or politics,
they're always trying to do something to make us not
feel power powerful because there's so many more of us, right, there's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Right, right, And because we are the powerful ones, they
are the minority. Uh, you know, the powers that be
are the minority. And if we actually understood what power
we held, we wouldn't give them that power.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
I truly believe that, And that's kind of the whole
point of everything I do for my podcast, My sub
stack all of these things is expose it. Because Okay,
if you choose to go with the establishment or whatever,
I think you're nuts and I don't want to be
around you. However, I want everyone to be able to
make an informed decision with all of the information publicly available,

(01:05:42):
Like we should all be able to make the decision
as adults. And that's what bothers me, is that the
manipulation the line. And this is why I have a
problem with the current church and the leadership and the
structure of everything. This is why I have a problem
with the state. This is why I have a problem
with interpersonal relationships that I have with people that try

(01:06:04):
to lie to me. It's insulting my intelligence and it's like,
just tell me the truth because then we're gonna have
a lot better relationship. Like and so at every level,
like you're expecting truth?

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
What passive? Aggressive? Utah? I am the same way. And
then guess what they call women that want truth and
they're just very blunt. I'm aggressive, right right? Bossy I am?
And then you're a Karen, but I'm not. I'm like, look,
I just think that if I treat you this way.
And this happens in the podcast community to the tenth degree,

(01:06:39):
I help people, for know, what what does it do
for me? Nothing? So you're helping all these people out
or you're doing a collaboration, you don't have to be
helping them. It could be same level, but at some point,
like I just am what I say I am. I
am right kids as I say I do, I don't lie,
Like what what is the purpose of all of that

(01:07:00):
that I can keep up with that I am busy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Like that's right, Yeah, and it is crazy to lie.
And I think it's one of the most like awful
transgressions against people for so many different reasons. But yeah,
I mean, I'm I always said this, like I'm great
at lying if I need to, but I don't need
I don't want to. I don't need to. So much
easier to just be truthful. You don't have to remember anything.

(01:07:25):
I'm too busy, I'm too lazy, Like there's too many
reasons to not lie, you know, and it just bothers
me when people do. And that's honestly what I view
all of this, like all of us trying to get
through these initiations. You're not telling me the truth, you know,
in the Church of Like what does this do to
my soul? What does this when I'm doing the baptism

(01:07:46):
for the dead, what what does this do for their souls?
What are the actual implications because maybe I might not
want to do it maybe I do. I don't know.
I don't know the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
And that's what I say always. I don't say, oh
that church is evil? What do I say? I say, Look,
if you want to go and do whatever you want
to do, right, that's on you. But I ended up
as a Mason and I didn't know what one was.
Is that fair? No?

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Right? No, I'm going to past, say, and now I'm
going to your form of hell because I told the
secret that I didn't even know was going to be
like that, Like why don't you prepare people? And even
even the Masons, Look, they don't tell one hundred percent
the truth, but here's what they do. Everybody knows what
hoodwinked is. Everyone knows that they're going to do these

(01:08:35):
weird things. And people say, oh, yeah, it's weird or
this or that, and you kind of know what you're
getting yourself, you a little bit do, right, we don't.
I thought I was doing this to go to heaven.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
That's all right, right, and I agree with that, And
I mean this goes you know, political as well. It's
like you don't know what you're getting into when you
sign up to vote or you actually go to go
vote like you don't understand what you're actually doing when
you run for office, you don't understand what you do
some some people know, but you know, just almost every

(01:09:07):
aspect of the world that we live in this country,
in the current times that we live in, with social
media and everything like it is. I think this is
why in the schizo research conspiracy communities, everyone says it's
all because because it's like everything does seem manufactured. Now,

(01:09:27):
I will say this right out of the gate, the
black pill, it's it's fake, it's gay, it doesn't exist,
don't buy into it. It It is a destroyer of
hope and annihilation, yes, one hundred percent, but also not
everything is a syop. Not everything is propaganda. This is

(01:09:49):
this is why you know shows like yours exist. This
is why shows like mine exists. Is to be able
to educate people on what is and is not, to
for one, be able to bring back some sense of reality,
be able to ground ourselves, and also to be able
to expose these things to make it much more difficult
for them to be able to cause this harm to people.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
And if you're not a loner, and you're not in
the club, and you're not part of the syop and
you don't like to be a joiner? How much fun
is it for you? Right, because I know what it
is for me as a woman, especially at one on
top of it there you know, people just don't want
to deal with it. And I'm like, okay, that's that's weird.
Like I thought this was I thought we were all

(01:10:32):
doing the same thing, right, because I came out of
nowhere and I really did get prompted by God to
do this. And people are like fake or some people
aren't fake, but they have some kind of thing that
they're trying to you know, push you know, MK ultra
stuff or you know, there is operatives in this business.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Oh yeah, I am incredibly picky about what shows I do.
I'm incredibly picky about who uses my stuff. Like all
of these things, right, and reputation, and it takes ten
years to build a reputation in five seconds.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
To ruin it, so you know that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Yeah, it's weird. And also like where's the money coming from?
What's their slant? Because here's the thing. Everyone has a bias, right,
and bias isn't bad. That's like I mean to say,
unbiased media or whatever is it's a pipe dream. It's
a utopian belief. Everyone has a bias, but the people

(01:11:33):
who are dishonest about their bias are the ones that
you should probably look out for, which you know, is
another reason I've liked your content. I like JJ's content,
and what I try to do, I try to make
my biases known like period, Like this is definitely where
I'm coming from. This is what I think. You can
disagree or agree, that doesn't matter, but this is what

(01:11:53):
I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
So and so many people bash me, like even my listeners,
because they'll say, well, is this person Christian? I don't care,
right if I am doing a show about a certain
topic and they know the most, that's who I'm going
to go to. You know same, Well, they're going to
put a spell on me or something. I mean I'm
a little careful that way, Like I'm not going to

(01:12:14):
invite you know. I mean, I don't need that in
my life.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
But yes, and I mean I hate to throw this out,
well I don't hate to figure of speech, but I mean,
just watch what political alliances they make, regardless of whatever
country it is, and you know the one I'm talking
about it, like, just be careful who people align themselves

(01:12:40):
with because not everyone has good intentions and most people
in positions of power are people of opportunists that will
use it to manipulate and to control you. And like
I said, if that's the direction you want to go,
go for it, but I want to make sure that
you have the information to be able to make the
educated decision that that's what you want to.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Do, especially the Joiners. The Joiners all wear aprons. I'm sorry,
but they do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Isn't that weird?

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
And it's strange right, whether it be Mormons or Mason's
or I don't care what it is, but here's the anthologists.
They all have aprons, and both of us on the
outskirts that are like, you know, I that's not for
And how many times do I get approached and they say,
but if you do this, or but you believe like this,

(01:13:30):
I'm like, yeah, but I don't want anybody telling me
verbatim exactly anymore other than one person, and he's not
a person, so right, I'm not doing that. You know,
God will direct it. God's always kept me on a straight,
narrow path with it, and I that's what I do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
There's nothing wrong necessarily with being a follower you know,
I think that has a lot of negative connotation. I
don't think it does. More people are followers than leaders,
and there is nothing wrong with that, but you just
need to understand what you're doing. And you know, I
have never met a person that's like, oh, I love

(01:14:11):
being lied to, you know, And I think that's the
big thing for me. It's like, I mean, they've said
I love being lied to in other ways, like oh
we need the government or oh we need this structure
or whatever, and it's like, well, no, we don't. But
you know, that's fine if you feel that way, if
you understand what it is. And that's just my biggest issue.

(01:14:34):
It's like we're being lied to, and I just want
people to understand that it's not that you have to
change or whatever, but you need to follow God. And
I do not believe that God or is in a
lot of these structures. I genuinely do not, because I
see evil in this and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
I'll fallen angel worship, Like, let's be honest, I mean,
because magic would have gone away a long long time
ago if it didn't work right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Yes, it does, it does, and you know, we get
tricked into doing it a lot, you know, and This
is why I'm also even careful about, you know, what
movies and TV shows I watch, you know, which is
kind of hard for like what I do because I
watch a lot of propaganda, but with the intent of

(01:15:24):
knowing that it's propaganda, kind of picking apart and stuff
like that. It's kind of fun for me. Now, it's
just I don't want that in my brain, you know,
you know, yeah, let alone.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
You know, like you said, we can give a good
example here in Utah, and very few people know about
this unless you're from here. But if you've ever gone
to a University of Utah game, and this is what
I mean, I like to break this down with you
because I think you'll know. They do something at halftime
or whenever they take their little breaks, and especially if
they're losing, right and they do what they call it.

(01:15:57):
They literally bring out a flame might this sacred torch thing,
and then they charge the house and they literally say
this is what.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
They're doing right right, Yeah, I mean, it's it's out
in the open. And I mean there's all sorts of
weird things like that here too, with the sports, which
I think is one reason why I was never super
interested outside of pee wee. You know, I played some
football and got knocked on my ass a couple of

(01:16:29):
times and I was just I was done with it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
That's not a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Yeah, it wasn't very fun. But yeah, there's all sorts
of strange things like that here. And I mean it
happens with just non religious public events all the time.
And it's it's not exclusive to Utah. You know, this
happens everywhere. I mean even like an opening ceremony to
a new store is very symbolic. I mean, there's just

(01:16:56):
all sorts of things all the time. Literally, magic is
everywhere if you know what you're looking for, and they
use our energy because we are kind of like batteries,
you know. And like this is we've kind of talked
about this too, is that the whole Charlie Kirk situation

(01:17:16):
here in Utah was used to push trauma. And I
mean everyone was traumatized by this in some form or fashion.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
That rightfle though, I mean right car right, Okay, So
when we're talking about psyops what they did and accomplish there,
which is why I refuse to talk about it, for
I didn't talk about it for at least seven days
at three days a minimum for me with anything because

(01:17:47):
of charging the house. They they did this right before
nine to eleven. So we've got the nine to eleven trauma.
Then they've got the kar kana that's going to reinvigorate
the JFK people, especially after the release of the papers
just barely how all this stuff around it. So they've
got that ramped up for the older people or the
boomers or whatever, you know. And then we've got the

(01:18:09):
new generation being traumatized. And it's all right there. I mean,
it was an then religious trauma on top of us, right,
and then the whole religion thing happens again right after
this with the crashing into the church and the essay
stuff that was associated with that. Nobody's talking about that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
Right right, and that there's all sorts of weird military
connections to that. And I mean, here's another aspect most
people don't talk about either, is the trauma on law
enforcement because I know for a fact some of these
people know things that they can't talk about, and there's
going to be all sorts of things that they saw

(01:18:52):
or heard and they would either lose their entire you know,
financial life, their security, their family, or my actually lose
their life if they say anything about it, and so.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
What does that do? It makes them hyper vigilant and
more aggressive, maybe not even on purpose, Like I'm not
bashing cops, like I hate when people do stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Look, yeah, I'm not a cop basher either.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
No, and even the military, like I get it, like
we shouldn't have owners that if you signed up and
that was what you want to do. Like all my
families in the military, So I can't exactly say, oh,
that was bad. My uncle served, my brother served, my
you know, all these people like my uncle's a chief
petty officer, you know, like they're they're top, top people.

(01:19:39):
My other uncle was a Green Beret Special Services like
all kinds of crazy. And does that have anything to
do with me? No? Why because he can't even talk
about it. Right. The only like really cool thing he
ever told me that was wooh was that bigfoot Israel.
And that's because it didn't happen when he was a work.

(01:20:00):
It happened when he was hunting and he was in Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Like right, and yeah, and I totally believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
I believe that he's a sniper couldn't catch it. And
he was like, guess what and I was like, Oh,
that's weird because I'm not even a bigfoot, huge bigfoot
person other than apparently Kane is bigfoot for the Mormons.
But other than right, other than that, I didn't care,
you know, I was like, whatever, I mean, But Utah

(01:20:30):
is a really weird place, like we talk about, you know,
the Mormons and the things they've brought that they keep secret.
That's my problem too, because we've got two factions here.
We've got the LDS Church and then we've got another
thing called the LDS Church of Satan.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
People don't even know what that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Is, right right, or that it could even possibly exist,
and it's a lie, right right. Yeah, And that's jeez,
that's so frustrating. But you know, it's interesting. And these
are some of the people that, you know, I mentioned
at the beginning of the show that these are some

(01:21:06):
of the people you have to worry about, the people
that look normal that are not behind closed doors. And
I mean, there's all sorts of stuff that happens in
this state behind closed doors that people should be concerned about,
but this is like some really concerning things, the most
evil things that you could possibly imagine. And they also

(01:21:27):
use the cover of the church to hide behind. And
this is also another thing that frustrates me sometimes because
I have to stick up for Mormons at certain points
because it's it's not the normal churchwelling people.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
It's not your neighbor or your grand right, unless she's like.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Way up, I mean right, but it maybe it's somebody's grandma.
But odds are odds are it's not your grandma, you know,
and so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Or your nice neighbor. They are the nicest people, Like
they really went for me. For me, even as high
up as my family was, I just didn't know anything.
I just thought we were going to.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Heaven right right right, and and that that is how
it's how it's presented, especially to the kids, you know,
because that's the first way to get them in. Uh
not until later as an adult do some people see
it so and like what said, yeah, right, And even

(01:22:29):
in the EXMO community, which is really strange. I mean
there there's still so much control that's left over because
what what bothers me is I've noticed like this huge,
uh I guess faction within the EXMO community where it's
like now their entire existence is being EXMO and it's like, well,

(01:22:52):
you didn't really leave the church then, you know, like
they still have their grip on you. You know, it's like, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Why I'm an independent even on that, Like those people
are the ones we're talking about for the podcast stuff.
But even still, I've gone on a few and that's cool,
but I'm not I'm not accepted in their group. Isn't
that funny.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
I'm one of.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
The most outspoken expos I'm not accepted.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Yeah, and I know you know who I'm talking about too.
It's just like that's their entire life, and it's like
why even leave the church at that point?

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
You know, It's like and it's frustrating because then they're like, oh,
I'm a badass atheist or I'm at this or that,
you know, yeah, yeah, And I'm like, I don't care.
I don't care what you are. Like, if you're a
good person to me, I will probably be your friend.
I am not a type of person that does this
selective shit that I did when I was a Mormon.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
I'm not saying it that the clicks the high school
clickie thing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
And we're back in it. It's not even high school
at podcast World, it's junior high and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
It happens with guests too. You know, I've I've had that,
I've had thathh and you know there's some guests I've
had come out that were flat out honest and just say, well,
you know, I enjoyed the one time, or I didn't
enjoy the one time, and I don't want to come back.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Right whatever, And that's fine, be honest. Like you said,
why is it so hard? That is not hard for me? Like,
but that gets me in deep shit.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
Me to me too, it didn't make sense to me.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
I have to do this. Have you seen that funny
clip with this guy and he goes, they don't like me?
Have you seen?

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
Yes? Yes, I have. Yeah, that is my life.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Right right, it's you know, I mean people are going
to be this way in general, and I do think
in Mormonism it is the one place. And I think
that might be why I do care a little bit now,
not a lot, but just where it gets under I
think it's almost a PTSD reaction because that was everything
if you didn't fit in yes with the Mormons at

(01:24:58):
school especially, and I never did because my parents smoked,
and what clothes smell like my it was smoked, and
you can't hide that no matter what you do, it
doesn't matter what you do, they know, Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
Yeah, I play with her, yep, exactly. And you know
I tried to play with the Mormon kids. We just
didn't get along, you know. And it wasn't anything wrong
with them or wrong with me. I just couldn't get
along with them. I didn't click with a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
You know, if you're an intellectual to it's hard because
it's just a weird it's a different existence. I think,
if your nose it's always in a book.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
Yeah right, Well, and you know, I myself with my situation,
like I was saying before, I was in the bubble
and out of the bubble, and there's that clickie thing.
If you're not in the bubble, then you're not worth
doing it now right about?

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
Right, So it's yeah, it is very clique, and I
mean I understand it from their point of view. I
just don't agree with it, you know. I don't think
that that's and I don't think that a lot of
people have had that fair ability to be able to
say this is what I want.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Some people have, maybe, but I just I don't think
a lot of people have right, and that and that
because of that coming from the top down is what
bothers me.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
So these elite families are picked, not like they want
to pretend like, oh, the prophet just came from the
prayer and we pray did that right? Well? Shit, these
families are dialed in like get out of here with that, right,
And you know they I get that they want to
know that. Okay, oh, we really actually worship some weird stuff.

(01:26:49):
And personally, at my top, I don't know what you've seen,
but the more I study, the more I see it
is a patriarchical order, but there's no a boy at
the very top. I don't think, right, I think it's
back to templar goddess worship likes. It's just my personal opinion.

(01:27:10):
I see a lot of weird stuff like that. So
you know, we know that they know they have to
be in the same club because then if they slip,
like right, you're in that knowledge, you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
Know, right, Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And you know,
I've actually learned way more about the Mormon Church being
outside of it than I ever did inside. It's all
flowers and rainbows and bunnies on the inside. And once again,
I left about thirteen fourteen years old, and so I

(01:27:43):
didn't even get the adult side of everything. You know,
I had the first level of the priesthood and that's
where I ended it. You know, It's just not something
I felt comfortable with going further. And so and now
just like learning church history, and I do try to
do my best. I try to watch, you know, general conference,

(01:28:04):
you know, when it's relevant for me to subject myself
to it. But I do like learn church history because
I do want to try and I do think like
the truth is like in the middle right, you know,
it's it's not going to be the fluffed up church
history and it's not going to be this bitter, you know,
angry I got to take the church downside, you know.

(01:28:27):
But I do try to listen to both sides and
try and find out for myself, because I'm a free
thinker what I think the truth is. And you know,
I run it by you know shows again like like
you I run, you know, what I think, and then
I just end up finding my way and what I
think is the truth. And so far it's served me
very well. And this this is where I've come to

(01:28:50):
the conclusion where you know, there there is these factions,
and there's these factions that want to be Mormon, but
they want to direct the Mormon Church in a negative way.
There's also these factions that use the church's cover. There's
just all of these different people that use the church
for everything, and it's become a tool of evil at

(01:29:11):
this point.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
And it's not just our our ex church, it's all
of them.

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Yes, yes, and and I mean it makes sense too,
because if if you're the devil and you're trying to
corrupt all things good, the church is going to be
the number one target period the church and children and
anything to do with children.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
Well, and what keeps you from God the most a checklist,
Like you're not going to learn what you need to
learn about yourself and your relationship with God if you
are so busy visiting, teaching and in your callings. And
I'm not just talking about Mormons, but just in general,
if church is a drag, okay, and right, let's just admit,

(01:29:58):
like ninety eight percent of churches is kind of a drag.
And you know, and then you got to read the
scriptures and they're sometimes hard and whatever, and you're not
really getting it for the right reason. You know agree,
I have no problem with the Mormon Church. If they
would quit lying and using it as their government cover,

(01:30:20):
that's all right, is right, and it irritates me. Now
that's not the Grandma's in the middle. Look, right, we
got to remember the porch Masons don't know crap about
the thirty third degree shit, and neither do it. Right
porch Mormons, that's my favorite term because it does explain it.
Whether it pisses people off or not, I don't care.

(01:30:41):
It is what it is. And these people are in
bed with every.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Other faction, right, so right, and I agree with that.
It's it's just so unfortunate because I personally believe people
are being led astray. And honestly, if I had a
magic wand to be able to just like make everything
how I saw, then you know, I would want nothing
more for the true believers to be able to have

(01:31:08):
a clean church to believe in. You know, I wholeheartedly
wish that for them. And you know, I've even spoke
to my mom about this, because she's she's one of
these LDS people that truly believes it's her faith, it's
her thing, and I want nothing more than for her
to have an actual true church to believe in. You know,

(01:31:30):
that's important to me, and that's why I think any
real Mormon or any real LDS person should be fighting
the corruption in the church because whatever it is now
is not what is promoted, and it's just highly unfortunate
because I do think humans we need that something to

(01:31:50):
believe in. We need that. And God does exist, and
there is a way to worship God and do these things.
But you know, the old to me, one of the
oldest stories in humanity is that you know, humans corrupt things,
and also the devil does exist. Evil exists, and so

(01:32:11):
there's going to be the corruption and everything. And so
I just I want to be able to see good
people do good things and have what we need to
be able to do good things. And I just don't
think that I can't point to a single leader of
any church where I'm just like, yes, you know, like
this is the guy, you know, like we look at that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Thing, yeah, or even the thing like minus the guy,
Like I just think that what you said is so true,
Like this is all corrupt and if you really want
to know God, then sit your butt down and read
his book and pray and figure it out.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Right, But they don't want you to do that. Len
learn about other religions too, and you know, one of
the best things I ever learned to do, and this
is what I learned, you know, debating, because that's kind
of where I got my start in a lot of
this also like third party politics and stuff. But is

(01:33:12):
learning the other arguments on the other side. I need
to test my arguments against other people's arguments, and I
need to understand their arguments. I need to argue their
or I need to argue my arguments with theirs. You know.
I need to test what I believe according to what
other people believe, and then I can see the faults

(01:33:33):
I can. I can see all these different things and
be able to test my beliefs with other people. So,
you know, it's everything is so nuanced. You just unfortunately,
I'm sorry, but everyone's got to keep learning.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
Yeah. Yeah, because the thing is is if you do
what they say and you never look outside the church
for any information. If you do not know occult things,
you will never understand that you're doing them. And so
how do you avoid that if you don't know. I'm
not saying you need to read every book that Crawley
writes like you do need to have some sort of

(01:34:08):
information about these rituals or the stuff they do or
why do they do the things they do? What makes
people chick? And you have to like even the church
hiding the rock and the hat and the folk magic,
it's not it's solomonic and it's a Nokean and Solomonic

(01:34:28):
mixed together had a baby, and it's Martinis and it's
free masonry. And if they hide all of that, why.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Right, right? I mean it can't be for anything.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Good because everything in secret has a reason to be secret,
because it's if it's really that weird and it starts
getting into Joseph Smith and witchcraft and dogs being killed,
weird stuff like weird stuff. If you look into all
of that, you have to really admit to yourself like
maybe just maybe this isn't quite right, you know, right right?

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
And unfortunately, and this is something I've had to come
to terms with as well. Also, it's a lot of
people don't want to be woken up.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
Yeah, and not to politics for.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
Sure, especially not to politics. It's almost it is a
religion at this point. You know that the whole us
versus them, you know the framing, you know the psyops everywhere.
It's just it's a minefield. But oh yeah, it's it

(01:35:39):
is a lot of people don't want to be woken up,
and I understand that because it is scary. But in
the Bible it does state that there will come a
point before the Second Coming where God will basically make
it so everyone does see through it. He will force everyone.
And so you know this is you know, people like

(01:36:00):
you and I we saw through it naturally because I
genuinely believe that we are on a mission from our
higher power, from the good in the universe, that we
are trying to do this naturally to people so they're
not shook awake by the power of God. Because when
that happens, it's going to be chaos, and it's going
to be traumatic, and it's going to be really horrible.

(01:36:24):
But there's a reason why we were able to see
through all of this beforehand, and we are very special
people to be able to do that, because we now
have the responsibility of trying to expose this to other people,
regardless of what comes our way, because we get a
lot of hate.

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. You left the church. Why
can't you just leave it alone? Or you know, oh,
trust the plan for you. We'll do that for your
side because you do right politics. But you know, for
anybody that wants to know anything about that, just this
documentary called Where's My Roy Kohane? Watch that open your

(01:37:06):
eyes a little bit. And when you do watch that,
you might step back and go, hmm, that that was salty.
That was a little weird. You know, why why is that?
And why are they all on this board of permandex
And they're all there together, but they don't make any
sense because we have a gangster with a president with

(01:37:27):
a lawyer and all these people from different countries and
you look at this group of hoodlums and you go, well,
that doesn't look right. Yeah, no, kiddy, right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
Right, And you know it's been confirmed that they do
terrible things, and we're expected to believe that they don't
do terrible things now just because of some position of power,
or they hide it better.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
They hide it better, right, And now you can't look up.
I mean like dollan a jokes, Okay, went to the
University of Chicago. He has a very interesting past, but
gets called at the same time the new Pope. Where
was he from again? Oh wait, wait, I think I
remember that's right, Chicago.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Right, Charlie Kirk's family, Chicago.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
It doesn't take a genius here, it's it's just messy.
But I get wanting to believe. I think so many people,
I mean wanted you know, the current president to come
in and save us. All groceries are twenty two percent
higher than they have ever been period. Right, that is
a real statistic. We are supposed to be in a

(01:38:38):
world's fair and the Golden Age. He started that in May.
I haven't seen anything great happening. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
Me neither. And yeah, yeah, I totally understand the wanting
to And I think that's what we're trying to do, though,
is like stop worshiping false idols, because here's here's the secret.
Here's the big secret. We all have the power, it's
all us, and stop asking permission. Just do the things

(01:39:10):
we can do, the things we don't need these people
out there doing things for us. We don't need to
ask their permission. We can start living the better life
and stop relying on the people who keep failing us.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
Yeah, don't. It's trust. It's like not even you might think, well,
I can't, I don't know how to do anything. No,
it's your mind. It's right, it's your mind. Focus. Yeah,
like turn off the news for heaven's sake. No, that's
just please unless you have to do it, Like I
have to read a could books. He has to probably

(01:39:43):
watch the news. H I I look at this and
I say, oh my gosh, no wonder people are depressed
and panic.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Here's here's my stack of books. And right over here
on my right side is piles and piles of books.
And not all of them are fun to read. You
should see my collection of government documents. You know, it's
it's not fun, but that this is also I digest
it so other people don't have to. And yeah, there's poison.

(01:40:15):
There are land mines metaphorically speaking out there, and the
news is one of them. It's all it is is trauma.
It's trauma. And here's the thing. I have a very
very close friend, you know, he's my brother. You know,
he's one of my closest friends. He deleted all of
his social media and nothing really changed for him other

(01:40:37):
than the fact that he's happier, he sleeps better, you know,
he's not as stressed and all of this stuff. But
the funny thing is he doesn't watch the news or anything,
he still hears about the biggest things. So I mean, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:40:49):
Gonna tell you, yeah, somebody right.

Speaker 2 (01:40:52):
And so anything you need to know, you will hear
about it. Trust me, you don't need the social media,
which is all that is. Social media's ran by the
intelligence agencies to track you and to get all your
data and to control you, and which is a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
First, I mean, we have to be on there, I know,
and I basically now, I'm so busy that unless I'm
doing something for this podcast or posting pictures of my
family in case like I were not here and they
couldn't get in my phone or something, which I would
never not want to be here. I love being here.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
So there's that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
Yeah we'll put that in there. But you know, just
uploading things like that, memories or whatever because my kids
like it and they want, you know, their photos and
we went on this vacation or whatever. But that's it.
I'm very hit and miss now. And my husband's like, oh, well,
you didn't see this or blah blah, And it's true,
I miss a lot. But here's the thing, I don't

(01:41:54):
care anymore like I did. I did care a lot like, oh,
so and so didn't like my post, and now I'm
super offended, and you know, whatever the case, Like, it's
just not a thing for me anymore. I'm like, eh,
I don't care about that stuff. I posted that for me,
that's in my album. I don't care. Or he'll say,

(01:42:15):
don't post so many pictures at once, because that's gonna
bug people. I'm like, oh, I just don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Right, if they don't like it, then I don't know
what to tell them.

Speaker 1 (01:42:24):
Sorry, move fast, you know, Like I became a lot different,
like it used to be a lot worse too, because
of the apostate thing in his fanis right, like, oh,
I'm sad because they didn't invite me to this, but
I do want them to invite me. But I don't
really want them to invite me because I don't really
feel welcome. But now I'm just like, oh, yeah, I
don't care if they If you're home, then i'll go.

(01:42:48):
If you're at home, I'm not going. I put my
foot in the sand because it was ten years of this.
I'm tired. Not that they were bad. They were nice to.

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
My face, right right, right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:43:02):
Some of them are genuinely nice, but here's the thing, Like,
you have to decide what you're willing to subject yourself to,
and you can do that without alienating everyone and just
saying screw all this. So I'm walking away and I'm
never talking to you again because you offended me once
at a party last year and you were drunk and said,
blah blah, who cares? Like, grow up? First of all,

(01:43:25):
grow up, resolve your problems. I know it's really hard
to go to somebody's face and tell them the things
you told everyone else and they heard you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
It can't right.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
It's like the news, it comes back right, right. I mean,
let's be grown ups and just talk about this face
to face, right, But then people will say you're.

Speaker 2 (01:43:45):
Aggressive, right well, and you know, one of the hardest
things for anybody is admitting they're wrong. Or here's here's
the true test is somebody taking taking an l even
though they don't, just right saying you were wrong when
you actually weren't. But you're doing it to save a

(01:44:06):
potential relationship because the relationship is more important. And you know, man,
it it's hard to do that. I've had to do
it a couple of times, and it doesn't mean the
relationship is always going to last. Because honestly, you should
cut toxic people, genuinely toxic people. You should go no contact.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
You know, I don't know unless they're your parents. I
have this weird thing because of the Bible and parents
and children. But I do think there's a safe way
to fit, to give so many boundaries that you're safe
because maybe will change. But that doesn't mean stay on
the phone while they scream at you.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
That's right, right right, go.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
Somewhere alone with them if you feel scared like that
doesn't mean that I'm not saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean there are limits,
but also everyone needs to make their own. You know,
I've I've gone no contact with my father, uh when
I've needed to, but he always had my phone number.
I always made sure of that that there was always
a connection, you know, if something happens or whatever. You know,

(01:45:10):
I still love my dad, but we're not the best
of friends. We don't have the best relationship. But you know,
I do also try because I do realize that at
some point something's going to change or maybe not. But
I'm not the one at fault for.

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
That, right, And I think that the big importance is
is like in the in the Bible, you know, we
get the ten commandments, and one of them is honor
your mother and father, and all the days will be
good with you for the rest of your life. So
it's a blessing and a promise. It didn't say it
would be easy, and I get it. There are I

(01:45:52):
came from a severely abusive home. I still forgive my
mother and and wasn't the one, but she was there
right Like, I was like mad for a lot of years,
and all it did was make me miserable. So what
I chose to do instead is there are days where
I'm like, I will have to call you another day

(01:46:14):
because I can't do this today. Yeah, I mean, whatever
the problem is, it might not even be her, right,
it's like the old things mixed with some problem you're having,
and then you want to, you know, get mad at
that person whatever. But it's easy to say, I will
not abandon you. I will call you another day, yes,
And you know, I think there's a lot in that.

(01:46:35):
And even if you do and they don't, and it's
this weird thing like at least she tried, you know,
not always, not every day. Don't subject yourself all the
time to that, like, but I don't know. I'm in
a weird position because my daughter's a strange for me
and it's been seven years, so you know, I'm not allowed.
I've tried to write, I've tried to do things I'm

(01:46:57):
not allowed, you know. And so it's a weird situation
because yes, I have her number, but I've basically been
told like, you will not call, and I'm making these
problems when I've tried. So I'm like, I'm waiting because
that's what I pray about and that's what I'm supposed
to do. It's not my nature. I'd rather fly out
there and be like, what the hell is wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:47:19):
Yeah, Well we've been best friends for our whole lives.
So it's her husband, you know. Yeah, And I'm like,
even if it was me, cool, I've told my other
kids because this rocks you from a weird state where
you're like, maybe I'm not a good mom like me.
I don't know. I wasn't the best mom because I
was ill equipped and abused and weird. And I was
seventeen when I got married. Like, no, I definitely made

(01:47:42):
a lot of mistakes. Yeah, nobody taught me how to
be a parent, that's for sure. But I even said, look,
if you got some things to say to me, to
the even the next ones down, let's go to therapy.
I don't even care. If you don't want to go
to therapy, you can sit at the kitchen table and
tell me how you feel. But I am going to
tell you how I feel, too. Right, it's not a
human but we could do that in a good way,

(01:48:04):
not a bad way, you know, right, And it did help.
It did help. Yeah, oh a hundred percent. If my
kid wanted to talk to me tomorrow, a hundred percent,
I'd be a static even even I don't even And
it's a weird thing because you don't want to pray
against a marriage, so the one causing the problem, I

(01:48:27):
can't even say I would not talk with him like
I would, you know. And and they can say, oh,
she's more comp this is the thing. Well, I forgive her,
but I never want to speak to her again. Do
you really?

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
You really is that forgiveness?

Speaker 1 (01:48:42):
And you've destroyed your whole family, like I mean, it's
upset every single one of your siblings. It's ruined tons
of holidays, Like, is that really forgetting me? I don't
know right now.

Speaker 5 (01:48:52):
They maybe even in the beginning it was something and
then you know, later on it becomes way more, way
more problems, and there there is a certain point where
you know, doing what you think needs to be done
actually causes more problems.

Speaker 1 (01:49:10):
Yeah, and it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
I've been off both sides.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
That, Yeah, I have a problem with you. Okay, that's okay.
We're grown ups. Like, if you need to say, mom,
you can never speak about my husband to me, please,
I would be like, okay, But certainly if she had said,
if you ever do that again, I will never talk
to you again. Oh I am. I heard you loud
and clear, right, Okay, you know. And I've been on

(01:49:37):
the other side of it with my husband and his
family against me, right like, I'm in this other but
I have told him you will never no matter how
cruel or whatever the situation is. Not that there's some
hugely cruel family. I'm just saying, right, do that to them,
And and he there's been a couple of times where

(01:49:57):
it's gotten heated where he's wanted to do that and
I'm like, no, it just doesn't help, right.

Speaker 2 (01:50:03):
Well, I mean, you've got to face the problem eventually
head on. Yeah, I mean you can put it off.
Sometimes it is the right choice to put it off.

Speaker 1 (01:50:12):
Right, everything's in bought timing.

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
Right well, And you know God does have a plan
for everything, So I don't. I don't because we do
have free will. I genuinely believe, you know, I don't
believe he's in control of everything because that wouldn't make sense,
at least not to me. No, But he sets up bumpers,
you know, kind of like for bowling. You know, there

(01:50:38):
there are bumpers that he controls, and you know, whatever
happens in between each bumper is more or less up
to us. But you know, eventually something's gonna happen that
is meant to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:50:50):
Right, right, And we all have our own responsibility in it.
And at the end of the day, we're supposed to
be forgiving. If we're walking Christ's path, that means the
hard things too, right. You know, I had done the
no contact with my mom, and I told her, even
though she has pushed some boundaries in the future past

(01:51:11):
where we made up where I said, you know, oh okay,
I'm really ticked, and she's been afraid that I would
do that again. But I always say I'm never doing
that again. I'll not go no contact with you because
I know she has ebaniment issues. And then you really
start dissecting the family line and you go, well, her
parents were awful and their parents were like yep, it's

(01:51:35):
just a NonStop and you're not going to fix it
that way, right, But right, Yeah, I always say give people,
you know, as many chances as it takes, because that's
what Jesus did. It's hard, you know, right, there are.

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
Times yeah, and yeah, there is a certain point though,
and this is you know, indicative of my situation where
you know, giving chances causes problems in my life and
and not not just like oh this was inconvenient, but
like causes me trauma, causes me damage. And that's that's

(01:52:12):
a certain point where I have to cut off because
I I can give anyone, you know, the benefit of
the doubt, but at a certain point when it's dragging
me down, you know, yeah, yeah, you can't fix other people.

Speaker 1 (01:52:25):
You have to love without expectation, and you also have
to no to say like, I love you, but this
is your path and I can't help you, but I
love you and I'm here, like, let's have lunch once
in a while, but I I can't. I can't watch
you destroy yourself like I. You know, I did that

(01:52:46):
with my brother and it was hard and he died.

Speaker 2 (01:52:50):
Yeah, and that's that's where I'm at with my father.
You know, love him to death, but yeah, there's just
certain choices he makes and I vehemently disagree with it
and he knows that, and you know, we just we
meet where we can.

Speaker 1 (01:53:09):
But yeah, don't like them, like pretend like it was
an alcoholic. You don't go to lunch with them drunk. Okay,
unhealthy behavior, if it's going to retraumatize you. You can
literally say when you come and smell like alcohol, it
traumatizes me to this level. But I would love to
see you when you're not drunk at a public area

(01:53:33):
where I feel sick. You know it's right, and I'm
not saying do this to yourself all the time. And
you know everybody is different, but I just feel like
if we really started, and this is probably why I'm
so different about that now because I work in addiction. Now,
that's my job is the addicts have so much guilt

(01:53:53):
they don't need anymore. And so if it's if it's
that it will help them to come out of that
and away from that if we don't fall back into that.
But it is extremely hard, right, Yeah, I get that.
It's it's sad. We have to love the person and
hate the problem, but we don't hate them, we just

(01:54:15):
hate the issue, right one.

Speaker 2 (01:54:18):
And you know that also works for mind control, you know,
A yeah, And because there's especially when people don't understand,
you know, coming out of the church or coming out
of an abusive relationship or anything the way they were raised,

(01:54:38):
you know, negative experiences in school. It's part of the
human condition, right like this is this is just trying
to learn how to deal with trauma and unfortunately it
is the most difficult aspect of life. And yes, honestly,
this is why I wanted to do your show as well.
Why I've been you know, listening to your shows and

(01:55:01):
coming through your catalog and stuff. Is this is why
I do. What I do is trying to break that trauma.
Stop that trauma. Yes, and that's Beau.

Speaker 1 (01:55:13):
And we have we have to start with us, because
if you're traumatized, that's a you thing.

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
Even though it can.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
Be your dad's fault, fault, it isn't if you get
to a point where you're like, I'm sorry, this is
really negative for you, and I love you, but this
isn't going to affect me. I'll see you next holiday. Right.
They hate that because it really does give them back
their old garbage. You know, you're like, I love you

(01:55:42):
as a person, but this mess right here, this is
not mine, right, I'm not holding that for you, right,
which is hard and we all so.

Speaker 2 (01:55:52):
And it's nasty too, It's it's not It is incredibly difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
You don't get a call me at three am to
pick you up, you know, you don't get to There's
so many things that we have to say. No, that's hard.
That's harder than saying I'm never gonna talk I don't
talk to you, because it is again that whole passive
aggressive where you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
No, not doing that right, right, They don't like.

Speaker 1 (01:56:18):
It, and then you're the bad guy. But if you're
the bad guy, you're the bad guy. Like you still
didn't turn them away, right, No, exactly, you don't have
to do what they say.

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
Exactly exactly my lecture of the week.

Speaker 1 (01:56:32):
But I didn't mean to lecture. I guess I just
look at it from all sides, because I've been every
face of this. I've been the one that turned away
my parent, the kid turned away me, and I've been
in an abusive situation and all these weird things, And
so I guess now I'm super well rounded in trauma.

(01:56:53):
Sort of bad thing.

Speaker 2 (01:56:56):
Aware is to be well, hey, I think I think
it actually helps though, because then that that's going to
direct actual healing within the world, though.

Speaker 1 (01:57:06):
We hope, and that's why we do this, And I
applaud you for doing the same thing, because thank you
we all you know, we are struggling. Like you said,
that means think of the people that don't even have
their regular needs met that day, you know, right, but
they do usually have a phone. What if we're the
one thing that helps them that day? You never know.

(01:57:29):
I'm not saying I'm not pompous like I would want
to be.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
I'm just saying what right right right now?

Speaker 1 (01:57:35):
So for that, I think that you know, these words
of wisdom are amazing. I think also what you've shared
about how being an outsider then falling into this whole
thing with the satanic stuff, I think that happens a lot.
You know. I think people need to watch their kids
for the younger ones, like, I know you're older when

(01:57:55):
you've had that happen. But my grandpa always used to say,
beware of the kids that want you to sit with
them for.

Speaker 2 (01:58:02):
That's great advice. That is great advice.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:58:07):
Yeah, anyone that's too eager. Anyone that's too eager, definitely,
you know, if they constantly push you and like and
there's a good push, but there's there's also just like, hey,
what are you doing all the time and trying to
get you to do things in it? You know, just
be weary, you know, use your mind, think, think about things,

(01:58:29):
and realize not everyone cares about you the way that
you do or the way that your family.

Speaker 1 (01:58:34):
Does, so you know, just or not everyone thinks like, oh,
I'm just helping this person for no reason on my own,
but some people always have a reason, right.

Speaker 2 (01:58:43):
Right right, well, and that's just human psychology. I mean
everyone everything in life works off of works works off
of basically what what can be done, And that doesn't
mean that it's bad. It's just that incentive is the
word I was looking for. Everything works off of incentive. Yes,

(01:59:03):
it's incentive is neutral. So just because it is an
incentive doesn't mean it's bad, but there is bad incentive.
So yes, something to keep in mind.

Speaker 1 (01:59:13):
People have, you know, their reasons, whether they're climbing a ladder,
whether you were part of a project, whether you had handlers.
That happens, This really happens, and people think, oh, that's
so crazy talk, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
Yeah, life, life is not as random as people would
like it to be. And you know, that's that's the
largest argument I hear against, like the conspiracy stuff is
they're like, no, life is way too No, it's not.
It is not like there are too many people living
their lives, doing too many things, making too many choices

(01:59:48):
for life to be genuinely that random. It's not. I
point to the Bell curve. The Bell curve is the
exact example of this. It appears that's random, it does,
but there is mathematically there is so much randomness that
it becomes not random. And you can you can actually

(02:00:12):
use what's called a Galton board to actually visually explain this.
And so if anyone ever wants to understand why life
looks random and is not, use a Galtin board and
it visually shows you. Because some people are visual learners.
But the bell curve explains everything perfect.

Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
Wow, Yeah, that's I think that's really helpful because I
think a lot of people are visual, you know, learners,
and honestly, especially in we got first world dumb problems here. Look, yeah,
if you're in India or somewhere that is not as focused.
And I'm not saying that derogatory wise. I'm saying these

(02:00:51):
people are working a lot, they're doing different things or
even you know, in a really controlled area like China, Okay,
maybe maybe less random, Okay, Right, things are different there.
But when you're here, and especially in certain areas where
there's a really big presence of a church, it doesn't

(02:01:13):
have to be the Mormons or a big presence of whatever.
And and you start to see these patterns, don't just
flip them out the door. There might be something there. Yeah, right,
Pattern recognition is intelligence. Yes, they don't like that. They
don't like that at all. That's why they tried to
break us all in the Gate program, at least me.

(02:01:34):
So I don't know about you. Yeah, I was a kid, yep.
And And it isn't it weird how so many of
us that are the free thinkers either with the Gate kids,
you got the flunky gate kids or you got the
gate gate keepers. You know. That was our trial run
of like where are you going to be? Yeah? Yeah,

(02:01:55):
luckily I moved. That was what saved myself and notty
been se.

Speaker 2 (02:02:01):
They just kind of stopped having me come. So I
don't I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (02:02:05):
Weren't doing it.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
Yeah, I don't. I don't know why. I can't really
remember why I stopped going.

Speaker 1 (02:02:12):
Yeah, I can't remember ship.

Speaker 2 (02:02:13):
Yeah right. And see, I was in a program that
was called STEP. It was like student testing and uh
higher education program or something, and uh, the one clear memory,
I one of the clear memories I do have was
one of the people that were there for my hearing
test and like my scene tests and stuff was actually

(02:02:36):
a person from the local base here because I remember
them having their badge belt. Yes, yeah, the pink the
pink fluoride.

Speaker 1 (02:02:46):
Yeah, floride.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
Yeah, it could have been anything, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:02:50):
I've tried to find the the so called psychiatrists that
I saw for probably two full years in the school
district didn't exist.

Speaker 2 (02:03:01):
No, that's so so scary.

Speaker 1 (02:03:04):
And it was once a week for two years and
I have no memory. And people say, well, that's because
you had a traumatic childhood. I'm like, really, well, I
would like to erase the severely trauma of my mom
being almost beat to death? Why is that there? But
my trip to Disneyland around that time is yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:03:22):
Right, okay, right, yes, okay. You guys just have all
the answers, don't you know, right right, and then you
know your IQ and stuff and then you go okay.

Speaker 1 (02:03:31):
But usually it's somebody in your family that has triggered this.
Like for me, I truly one hundred and ten percent
believe it was my dad going to prison because I
think they tested him and I already knew what his was.
He'd already been tested. It was it was it was
so smart. He was dumb, like right, obviously the prison thing, yeah,

(02:03:55):
that that gets into the Kingstons and energy credits and
weird shit. But but he wasn't a plagamist. But he
did a lot of business with a lot of people,
and I think they follow their bloodlines. I think they're like,
this guy was smart, so go find his kids.

Speaker 2 (02:04:11):
Right, Yeah, it does happen. People get targeted or.

Speaker 1 (02:04:15):
If they were the military, whatever the case may be.

Speaker 2 (02:04:18):
Yeah, right, well, I mean this is this is what
education is, right, this is actually like half the reason
the education system exists in the way that it's organized.

Speaker 1 (02:04:28):
Yes, and why so many kids don't do well at school.
I'm like Einstein flank school. I have a severely ADHD daughter.
She is so smart and she feels so dumb every day,
and I always just tell her, well, one time she
went and told them this is funny. She I said,
don't worry. One day you're going to be their CEO.
And she went and told the teacher.

Speaker 2 (02:04:48):
That, and I was like, I gotta know for her,
good for her.

Speaker 1 (02:04:53):
She didn't even know what that word meant. She was
like six. I was like, oh man, and I just thought,
have to explain that, aren't I.

Speaker 2 (02:05:03):
They did.

Speaker 1 (02:05:04):
Yeah, the teacher sent me home a message. I was like,
of course, but whatever. What I'm saying is with your children,
always reinforce. And I tell my daughter every damn like,
I don't care about your grades. I don't I until
you high school. This doesn't matter, like starts to matter.
I'm like, none of this matters. This isn't a judgment

(02:05:26):
of how smart you are. These tests whatever, Yeah, whatever
tests I can opt out of, I opt out of
for her because I don't want her any more stressed
out than she is. Right, it's stupid. It's stupid. So
just parents. Two people been kind of through this, like
just watch your kids.

Speaker 2 (02:05:46):
No kidding, homeschool if you can, and if you can't,
just be involved. Don't don't just let the state run
rough shot over your kids because it happens. It happens
to kids whose parents aren't involved. So if you have
to go public, which you know, not everyone can do
homeschool or charter school or whatever. Not everyone has the
same options. But whatever it is, just be involved. Yes,

(02:06:10):
know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
Especially if you've got a special needs either the I
ep like they they already know. Well, I am a
thorn in their side. They already know if they are
not following. She comes and tells me to like they
didn't let me do this thing, blah blah blah. I'm like, oh,
that's okay. I'll be talking to them. I'm sure they
hate me. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah, I don't care.

(02:06:33):
I'm like, do your job.

Speaker 2 (02:06:34):
God forbid, you be a loving parent.

Speaker 1 (02:06:37):
Yeah. They're like she's crazy. I'm like, cool, my kid's
gonna be fine. Let me tell you, this kid's not
gonna feel this way, like, but they've actually been at
this charter school really accommodating, so good. Yeah, I'll give
them that, uh not not not always been the best area.
If I could remove her, I would have, but the

(02:07:00):
ED program keeps us there because they were part of
Operation Hive Strike. Right, yeah, watch your kids. That's a
good one. Anything else for our viewers.

Speaker 2 (02:07:11):
Today, Well, if anyone wants to check out what I do,
you can pretty much find me anywhere at Rise to
Liberty or at Rise to Liberty pod I think is
my Instagram. The most active places I am is Telegram,
x or Twitter and Telegram, Instagram and x or Twitter.

(02:07:34):
Also beware the mocking bird substack. I just released a
new article all about the psychological operations, the trauma based
mind control and the propaganda being ran on the Charlie
Kirk coverage, not the assassination itself, but the coverage of
it and the media coverage. Even the nones and the

(02:07:56):
unknowns on social media talking about it is affected by
all of this. So go check that out. It's called
Unmasking the syop. And yeah, so I just released that.
I just had a really good interview on the Free
Thought Project that just dropped, which is a great show. Also,
the shows that we've done on JJ's channel has been wonderful.

(02:08:21):
And then anyone that wants to support me. I do
have a cofi, I have a buy me a coffee.
Those are the best ways. I also have a merch
store and I just dropped a new mind Control T shirt,
long sleeve T shirt, normal T shirt and a hoodie
because it's getting cold, so go check that out. That's
Rise to Liberty dot store.

Speaker 1 (02:08:42):
Well, this has been a great convo. I've definitely had
a fun time, and I think you're just straight shooting
with a lot of things, and I think there's a
lot to be said about people that are so I
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:08:55):
Yes, this was absolutely wonderful and I want to thank
you so much for having me on. And I look
forward to our next conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:09:02):
Oh yeah, they'll be in more. There'll be more coming
and we'll probably have the not the vice president with
us the next time.

Speaker 2 (02:09:09):
Yes, that always great.

Speaker 1 (02:09:11):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see you next time you guys. Bye.

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237. Satanism to Saved in Utah

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