November 27, 2024 • 44 mins
Unlock the potential of your relationships with insights from Donna, an international spiritual intelligence coach. In this episode, Donna shares how aligning with your core values can enhance personal harmony and drive business success. Learn how crafting a personal blueprint and setting clear goals can help you balance the demands of work and life for meaningful, long-term growth.
We explore the power of open communication and perspective shifts to reduce conflicts and foster deeper connections. From candid anecdotes about marriage to leadership strategies like delegation and expectation-setting, Donna provides actionable advice for strengthening personal and professional relationships. Tune in for practical tools and inspiration to unlock new possibilities in life and business.
KEY HIGHLIGHTS
[00:00] Donna's background and personal info
[02:00] Building a blueprint for harmony
[11:02] Clarity in expressing desires
[21:11] Communicating expectations
[25:19] The importance of clear communication
[32:11] Shifting perspectives on unmet expectations
[40:39] Begin with the end in mind
[43:15] How to connect with Donna
NOTABLE QUOTES
"It makes things, especially life and business, a lot easier if you have them on board or at least an understanding of what you're trying to do with the business and everything." – Philip
"Harmony starts first with me being authentic and recognizing what lights me up and what causes me to be enthusiastic and passionate about my work." – Donna
"I think in general we have a fear of telling people really what we want for fear of rejection." – Donna
"Be bold enough to ask." – Donna
"If someone's not accomplishing the job, you have to go back to you and ask how you are communicating the expectations, procedures, how you want it done." – Donna
"As the leader you shouldn't have to know everything." – Philip
"You are a gift to the world, and the person who's going to be most surprised is you because we don't realize all that's capable in us." – Donna
"[Learn] to work with someone that's going to help you be the best you today and a better one tomorrow." – Donna
"Most people that are trying to learn from us need the basics." – Philip
"Having that self-awareness is an important thing, to be able to have that self-reflection and that perspective shift." – Philip
"Sometimes we need to be told what we already know, because... I used to [implemented it] and I quit." – Donna
RESOURCES
Donna
Website: https://www.ivibrantliving.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drtashjian
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnatashjian
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drtashjian
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMFNossw9VN2QwDtVitzKg
Philip
Digital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-course
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessions
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipsessions
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the
Speaking Sessions podcast.
I have Donna here and she is aninternational spiritual
intelligence method coach,helping people with a burning
desire to achieve their dreams,yearning for more abundance
while maintaining harmony intheir lives, and seeking the
(00:21):
path to prosperity withoutcompromising their health and
relationships.
And she specializes in helpingyou unlock the secrets of
spiritual intelligence, makingit easier than ever to empower
your dreams.
And I really wanted her to comeon to help us talk about
relationships, especially asbusiness owners.
That's probably the thing thatholds us back the most is the
(00:44):
fact that we have issues in ourown relationships.
How can we have thoseconversations?
How can we make sure thoserelationships stay strong so we
can continue to grow ourbusiness and also find that
balance or that harmony betweenrelationships and everything?
But before we get into that,donna, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you very much, Philip.
It is a pleasure to be heretoday.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, excited to have you.
Like I mentioned, you'retalking about relationships and
everything.
I think it's something that wereally should talk about and I
believe that communication is ahuge aspect of that.
And, like I said, having thatsupportive spouse, or really
getting that spouse on boardwith the business, is something
that's very important to reallyhelp the business move forward.
(01:29):
Not that it can't if the spouseisn't on board or the
communication isn't quite there,but it definitely makes things,
especially life and business, alot easier if you have them on
board or at least anunderstanding of what you're
trying to do with the businessand everything.
So, looking forward to divinginto that, but tell us more
about you.
(01:50):
I know it's a broad, openstatement, but tell us more
about you.
What got you into what you doand how exactly you help people?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Sure, I have been coaching and mentoring
predominantly women, but peoplefor over 30 years, and in the
beginning we didn't really callit coaching.
That's been a new word that hasreally surfaced, probably in
the last 15 years or so thatit's gotten bigger.
(02:21):
But learning in the beginningit was something that I just
found myself doing.
If I had a nickel for everytime somebody said I've never
told anybody this I'd be quitewealthy.
And so it's learning to in thebeginning.
I think that we don't oftenrecognize what our gifts are.
(02:41):
We talk about you talked aboutharmony, but harmony starts
first with me.
Harmony starts first with mebeing authentic and recognizing
what lights me up and whatcauses me to be enthusiastic and
(03:01):
passionate about my work.
That I'm doing A lot of timesin.
My husband worked for UPS for30 years and I would not say
that that got him excited everymorning when he got up, and so
how do you sometimes do that andstill maintain the
relationships is anotherquestion is how do you get up
(03:23):
every day when you're notenthusiastic?
Is another question is how doyou get up every day when you're
not enthusiastic?
And so there's some of that,probably both in the audience,
people doing things that theyabsolutely love, and then people
doing things that perhaps youknow is not your primary passion
, that you live.
So the first step is what'simportant to you and really
doing a self inventory.
(03:44):
I call this awareness.
It's like where have I been?
Where am I to want to go?
What are my gifts?
I call it creating your map.
Creating a blueprint is anotherword that I use to describe.
And first we need to start withawareness of what's important to
me.
So if you happen to be in amarriage relationship or some
(04:07):
type of a relationship like that, where that is important to you
, communicating that that'simportant, even if your boss
tells you you have to work lateor you have to come in early, or
you have to miss a kid's soccergame, which happened to us, we
have family plans, and he says,nope, we've had a when, when my
(04:30):
husband was in security, we'vehad a theft at UPS, you've got
to come and investigate it.
I don't really care what youhad planned, drop everything and
you're coming into work, andthat happened a lot, and so, but
he but communicating with mewhat is true values were helped
us to move through those periodsof times.
(04:51):
So first step is awareness ofwhat you want, what are your
values and what is important toyou.
Harmony is a much better wordthan balanced, even though I use
that in my balanced blueprintacademy.
Um.
Harmony is a better wordbecause balance makes me think
(05:11):
that you get.
You get 50, 50 and you get 50yeah or everybody gets 25, and
it's really not like that.
It's working from values andsometimes work calls you in.
But that does not mean that Ihave less or I have a project or
something.
It does not mean that myhusband is not important to me,
(05:37):
it's this is taking time rightnow, and so that harmony is a
much I love the word much better, even though we all say I want
to have a balanced life, and sothat's why I called it the
balanced blueprint, because itdoes resonate.
But if you want to arrive inChicago, you need to know where
you're starting from andthinking about where am I?
(06:00):
And really being honest withyourself, how are you doing in
your marriage?
How are you doing in yourhealth, your personal health?
How are you doing in otheroutside relationships?
How are you doing in yourspiritual life?
What is important to you?
All of those pieces and partsof you, how are they going?
(06:21):
Rate them periodically, andthen you make adjustments.
I'm really into quarterly goals, not annual goals, even though
we all need the annual goals,because I can adjust I'm moving
a ship, if you will, and it'sdegrees, and it makes we often
(06:44):
underestimate what those littlesmall decisions.
They actually create miracles.
One decision after another,decision after another decision
can create miraculous results,but we don't often think so,
because it doesn't feel big inthat.
So what's your thoughts aboutthat?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
No, I completely agree with you, and there's so
many things.
I think about one with like theone degree, and I don't know
the whole analogy, but it's likeif you're going from LA to New
York and you go off by like onedegree, you end up somewhere
else and it's like way different.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Like China or something.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, maybe not that far, but yeah, you end up way
far off from going to New Yorkand everything, so that one
degree is so important.
But I couldn't help but thinkabout and I've shared this
before.
It's been a while since Ishared it, but whenever my wife
and I were dating at the timeand I had this problem with
relationships where I would kindof bring up how religion was
important and stuff to me, but Iwould never say like you know,
(07:48):
I would never be like superforthcoming about or very direct
about it.
It was like, oh, you know, it'simportant for me, I kind of do
it, but then I just wouldn'treally bring it up too much in
the relationship because Ididn't want to make it be like a
pain point or anything likethat or make it uncomfortable.
But then basically everyrelationship would just end, and
(08:09):
typically sometimes it would bebefore religious stuff would
come up.
But a lot of times it'd bebecause of a misalignment that
was there that I definitely knewfrom the start, but they didn't
necessarily know and so itseemed like this whole thing
that and I don't know theirperspective because we just
broke up and moved on, we didn'ttalk to each other.
But I'm sure they probably feltlike, well, I'm not meeting,
(08:30):
it's an unmet expectation thatI'm not meeting for Phillip, and
that was similar with my wife.
But we had talked about it and Iwas direct about it, and then
she started not really going tochurch with me and so at first
I'm like, well, this isn'tworking out.
But then I'm like, well, let mehave that conversation with her
, let me let her know again,here's where I'm at, here's what
I need and what I expect.
(08:51):
And she did want that.
She just didn't realize what Imeant by that Cause I, because I
had said something about like Iwant some, you know, I want to
raise a family that goes tochurch, and stuff like that,
which, when I say just goes tochurch, does that mean once a
month, once a year?
I'm like, what does that mean?
So I had to be more specific,like you know, going very, you
know every week, and stuff likethat.
And so when I had thatconversation, it was that and
(09:13):
actually expressed thatexpectation.
The relationship got betterthere and of course now we're
married and everything.
But it was almost to the pointwhere I was like I think this
isn't going to work out, butprior to her.
It was this kind of unmetexpectation, it was this idea
that, yeah, I want somebody thatgoes to church, that does the
things, whatever else was inthere.
(09:35):
But I never fully expressedthose things, and part of it I
just didn't know exactly.
For me either, a lot of it wasI was more focused on the
physical appearance, because Iwas really into fitness and
everything as well, and I waslike, oh, you know, church is a
thing, but you know, thephysical appearance was a higher
priority on my list until Ifinally had that self-reflection
(09:56):
and I think it's important thatyou mentioned that, that
self-reflection, that you needto do that and figure out
yourself first and going to likeagain with the annual goals you
talked about too, knowing whereyou're trying to go.
Now you can create thosequarterly goals or even at a
minimum, have those quarterlygoals, and you can make those
adjustments because you knowgoing back to the flight analogy
(10:17):
, if I'm now veering towardsChina instead of New York, well,
I probably need to adjust tomake sure I'm going towards New
York.
You know where you're going.
But that all starts with youknowing you, knowing what you
want, getting your own internalhouse in order, and then you can
start to have the conversationswith a spouse or business
partner or whatever it is.
(10:37):
But you have to know what youwant first and to be able to
fight and have a conversation ata minimum.
Maybe not fight fight might notbe a good word but to be able
to have a conversation anddiscuss about why you expect
this thing or why you want thisthing and everything and having
those important things and stufflike that, and just to be able
(10:58):
to start that conversation.
But you have to know you first.
So I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I think the biggest thing of what I heard you say is
you told her why.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You didn't just tell her you need to go to church
every week with me, becausethat's not the way you said it.
But you could have thatconversation with people.
I think we in general we have afear of telling people really
(11:32):
what we want for the fear ofrejection or breaking you know
something not going well.
And it's the same thing evenwith serving people.
I really don't call it sales,but serving people is the same
thing as I should give myselfpermission to say no, this isn't
(11:57):
the right person for me to workwith, or yes, it is, and really
saying who I am and who I serveand what I'm wanting to myself
first of all, like you're saying, yeah.
So that we can have thatauthentic and as you go on in
your marriage.
How long have you been married?
(12:17):
Five, years.
Congratulations.
Yeah really long time.
Next week I am celebrating 40.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Wow, that's a very long time.
You don't hear a lot of thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So in that period of time, what's important to me
shifts and having thosecontinual conversations of
saying what I wanted.
One of my husband and I we'vegot lots of marriage stories.
We've had a business.
I've had a business since I was19.
So I've always been doingsomething and so we've had a lot
(12:55):
of experiences together and nowa laughing experience.
Not all of them were at thetime, but we were coming home
from church and he says do youwant to go out to eat?
And I knew money was just alittle bit tight, you know.
So I'm like I'll just have asalad, I'll just go home and
have a salad.
I didn't want a salad, I wantedMexican.
(13:15):
But I didn't tell him what Iwanted and it ended up being a
whole afternoon grumpy thingbecause he didn't take me for
Mexican when I didn't ask forMexican.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, didn't say it at all.
You said it in your head,though.
He should have read your mind.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
He should have known how dare he he should have known
when I said I just will have asalad, that I didn't really want
a salad, but I didn't tell himlike that.
He heard I'll have a salad, andso you know, it's just.
All of this goes on and ithappens in every relationship
where we we assume peopleunderstand, or we assume people
(13:51):
know, or this is another one wehave some kind of expectation
about how they're supposed tobehave, but we've never told
them what we're expecting.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, I found unmet expectations, or known
expectations, rather, that areunmet.
Because of that, yes, aretypically.
That's usually what I get introuble with, whether it's my
wife having the.
It's unknown for me what herexpectation is, or vice versa.
That tends to be more of ourarguments than the fact that we
(14:21):
know the expectation of theother.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Absolutely so.
Be bold enough to ask is myadvice?
Be bold enough to say, not in agrumpy way and not a slamming
doors, cupboard way even thoughI've done that but saying I want
Mexican today, Do you think wecan have it in our budget to do
that?
And just saying, and if we bothdecide no, we better go home
(14:44):
and make lunch.
And we do that, but it's likelearning to be able to say what
we want.
This is.
This is not necessarilybusiness related, but can I tell
you one other story?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, all right.
So my husband and I have hadthis conversation.
We've been married a while.
We were together beforemarriage, so we've been together
a good you know, most of ouradult life.
And he still has troublegetting his socks all the way
into his laundry.
You know the hamper for it tobe washed.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
That hamper.
It's a tricky thing.
I tell you it's a trick.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And so for you, for anybody who wants to check me
out, I had a traumatic childhoodand and and everything, and
that creates a lot of lowself-esteem.
We'll just summarize in sayingthat, um and so I remember early
on in our marriage and I'm likeI see the socks.
He's gone to work.
I see the socks.
(15:41):
I'm home with three children.
You know all the things, allthe things are going on.
You know fighting and toys anddirty diapers and all the things
.
And I see these socks and I'mlike he can't even get the socks
into the hamper.
If he really loved me now listento this statement If he really
loved me, he'd put those socksin the hamper.
(16:02):
But he must think I'm his maid.
He doesn't really care and Istew on on this all day long.
Now can you imagine what it'slike when he comes in the door?
He didn't know what he's done.
We do not have a good evening.
Okay, that's one scenario, andthat happened.
Another scenario is I began towell.
God talked to me and taught mea lot, and I began to well.
(16:23):
God talked to me and taught mea lot, and I began to learn and
I said I, I'm like he didn't putthe socks in the hamper.
How many ways does he show mehe loves me?
Every day, and I begin to listthem.
He does this, he does this, hedoes this.
He's working hard.
He does all of these otherthings to show me he loves me.
(16:45):
Wow, I'm really a blessed woman.
And I pick up the socks and putthem in the hamper and I go on
about my day.
Now do you think we have abetter evening?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I would say so.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
And all that changed was my perspective.
I'm the one who changed.
He still has trouble gettingthem in the hamper, but I didn't
create the meaning that thatmeant X, y, z.
I began to create the meaningthat of all of the other things
(17:19):
that he did to show me he lovesme.
And learning to do that in ourexpectations in business, in
life, you can look at it in allkinds of ways is what our
expectations are.
We're the ones who make thebiggest shift.
Which is at the core ofspiritual intelligence is you
are the creator of your world.
(17:40):
You are the creator of yourworld.
You are the creator of yourexperience.
What do you want to createtoday?
As a man thinks in his heart,so is he.
So my first story, I was anunloved wife, and my second
story, in the other story, I wasabsolutely cherished and adored
(18:01):
, and the only person whochanged was my perspective on
what I chose to believe, thinkand meditate on, and it created
a whole new world.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, and like you said, that experience at dinner
that night when he got home wasbetter for him.
I'm sure he loved that side ofyou way more and then for you as
well, like you felt so muchbetter because, rather than
being so mad all day long inthis negative mindset and then
come home and now you, I'm sureas you, were negative and kind
(18:33):
of hateful towards him orregretting him and not feeling
loved by him, that was beingshown and so then therefore he's
like, he's like I don't reallywant to show her love because
she's not showing me love and wekind of get childish with it.
But that's just natural ashumans that we do that and I
can't help.
I've got a sock story too.
My wife.
(18:54):
She does the laundry, so it'snot like it kills me every once
while I try and help her outwith that and stuff and and I'll
give her a hard time becauseyou know mainly she does the
laundry.
But she's told me she's like,oh my gosh, I love you so much
Because when I take my socks off, I take them off and the
outside is still on the outsideand for some reason she just
decides to grab them from thetop and pull it through and so
(19:16):
the inside is out, and thenshe's got to go and put them all
back in.
She does the same thing withher shirts and everything.
She's like I'm just so thankfulthat you don't do that.
I'm like, yeah, I want to belike.
Yeah, because I'm not a freak.
I'm like, yeah, you're welcome,I love you too, like I don't
(19:37):
know.
I'm like I don't know why thatthat unmet expectation in in the
workforce as well, where thatthat comes up.
Or you know, you expectsomebody to do something a
certain way or get somethingdone by a certain time and you
just say, hey, I need you to getthis done.
Ok, well, you didn't set it.
You didn't set a deadline, youdidn't tell me how important it
(19:59):
was.
I had other things going on.
So I decided either okay, I'llget to it when I get to it,
which means it's probably at thebottom of my list now I don't
know the importance behind it, Idon't know when you need it, so
I'm going to get it done.
But now you're mad because Ididn't get it done in time,
which really I could say thatwith the trash.
I'm sure there's other menlistening to this right now, if
(20:19):
my wife wants me to get thetrash out now.
But I'll just say, hey, can youtake the trash out?
Okay, yeah, I'll get to it, letme.
And I'm like, yeah, I'll get toit, let me finish this thing up
.
And of course I could have beenbetter saying, yeah, let me
finish this up real quick.
Or hey, do you need me to getit out of the way?
(20:43):
First I my hand and say, youknow, I'm at fault too.
But then she will get madsometimes because I didn't do it
right.
Then I didn't drop everythingand do it in the moment because
she didn't explain herexpectation of it and of course,
again, I didn't explain what Iwas doing, that I couldn't.
I mean, I guess I could, but Ididn't ask that question either,
which is what you talk about aswell.
Start to ask the questions,change that perspective, and I
like that you talked aboutchanging that perspective, and
(21:05):
so I really want to dive downthese two things.
I think both of them areequally important.
Maybe let's start with thequestion like how can we help
ourselves?
Remember to ask questions likethat, because I found that for
me with getting better atcommunication, when somebody
asks for something, that I'llask those questions.
Hey, you know, is thisimportant to you?
(21:26):
Or when's the deadline on this?
I might ask for some clarifyingquestions to get a better feel
of the importance or when thisthing is due.
But I've trained myself and I'mnot a hundred percent on this,
but I've trained myself to thinkabout that.
But then the other aspect ofthe perspective shift.
So I'd love to hear, like, howyou go about that, and I'm sure
(21:46):
you're helping other people withthat.
But how do you, how do youstart to ask those questions and
get the clarity and understandthe expectation instead of just
assuming what that expectationis?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, just a blanket statement, pretty much for all
the wives out there.
We ask you to do what it meansnow.
Just you know, just say it lovea good stereotype uh, if there's
any woman out there thatdisagrees with me, let me know.
But I kind of think that it,and it probably is very similar
for a man, if he asks for aspecific thing, we there is this
(22:18):
thing that I want, I want a cupof coffee now, or whatever it
is.
Um, you know those kinds ofthings.
So that's kind of understood,that that it maybe shouldn't be
so, but it is.
So it becomes on our part tosay is it all right if I finish
doing X, y, z and then do it andthat kind of is beginning to
(22:41):
communicate?
So that's in the home life, isis just understanding and and
asking those kinds of questionsas we go along.
I had that happen today.
I asked my husband at breakfastto do something and he went and
did something else.
So I did it and he called melater.
He goes, I forgot to do thatand I'm like, don't worry, it's
(23:01):
done.
But thank you for calling andremembering.
And so it happened this morning, you know, and I'm like you
know it means now, yeah, butit's 40 years of marriage.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
So you just, you just laugh about it and you don't
make mountains out of littlethings, you just laugh about it
and you don't make mountains outof little things.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You just laugh about it and move on.
It's no big deal, that kind ofthing In work.
It's really important tocommunicate when your deadlines
are, what your expectations are,especially if you're in
leadership.
If someone's not accomplishingthe job, you have to go back to
you and ask how you arecommunicating the expectations,
(23:41):
procedures, how you want it done.
All of that there are so manyways.
You know, in the old days wehad written policies and
procedures and jobs descriptionsand all that kind of stuff and
now you can do videos todescribe everything you want and
communicate it ways.
So just always communicationand if you're an employee or
(24:06):
someone answering to someone isalways ask, ask, questions.
There are no stupid questions.
Always ask and hopefully that'sacceptable in that environment.
But I'm not sure about this part.
When did you want this done?
And just beginning to ask thosekinds of questions to be able
(24:26):
to communicate everybody'sexpectations and if something's
not going well, is revisiting itand again allowing that
communication to occur to?
Oh, you told me that this hadto be done my next Tuesday, but
I run into this and this withthese suppliers and I can't find
the answers, to be able to haveit done and communicate that?
(24:48):
Yeah, so that if I'm answeringto you, you know I've not
neglected it, that there hasbeen some hiccups and that's
come along and it may take justa little bit longer.
I wanted to communicate thatwith you, or do you want me to
eliminate that and just move on?
Do you see?
It's like I'm asking thosekinds of questions, um, to be
(25:09):
able to work through things andjust keep talking and really
saying what's going on is isgood, no matter where you are.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, yeah, such an important thing.
I know kind of a funny story, Iguess somewhat good, somewhat
bad communication.
But I know in a previous rolethat I had, I was working on all
these approvals for someequipment we had and there was
different certifications, and soyou're going through these
government entities and stuff.
So of course, governmentthey're fast as can be and
(25:39):
everything just happens veryquickly.
It would take forever, but Imean it was like 10 or 15
different approvals and so Ijust had a list, like okay, we
need to get these.
So I just started, I just madea list and start at the top.
I didn't have any order.
And then I had asked for likehey, what's the order on this?
Is there any importance?
To my manager and he kind ofpushed back and he's like, well,
(26:02):
they just need to get done.
I'm like, yeah, but withtalking to these government
agencies, they need information.
I can get that, but then I'mwaiting.
So which ones are moreimportant?
So I can make sure I'm reallyprioritizing those?
And then I guess he had some badexperience with the previous
one.
He finally brought that up inthe conversation but it was like
, well, you know, you just gotto get.
You know you need to work on allof them.
(26:23):
But I'm like, yeah, but I needto order a priority, so from
management saying what's themost important, because
otherwise I'm going based on Icreated a list and I'm just
going top to bottom and when Ican't work on one I'll go to the
next one, but I might put thetop priority at the very bottom
and so you're expecting to bedone first.
So I had to like really drawthat out of him for him to
(26:45):
understand that Uh, that wassome of those things like a
situation I had to go through toreally get the clarity and the
expectation you know, and reallythe priority of the list and
everything.
But it was really interestingto to hear him kind of he
expected me just to work oneverything and then, if I didn't
, or if he gave me a priority,that I would only focus on that
(27:06):
one thing.
But I guess overall theconversation was good, even
though there was a lot ofassumptions on his side.
At least when I started askingquestions he was at least
forthcoming with some of thoseassumptions and everything and
that I could go and ask morequestions or give more
information on that.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
That's a great example.
Sometimes we ask those kind ofquestions and they don't know
the answers.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, they haven't really thought through,
they just gave you this wholeproject without actually
thinking it through, aboutwhat's most important.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And so then when you ask, if I say, well, I don't
really know, I look stupidimportant.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And so then, when you ask if I say well, I don't
really know I look stupid, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So sometimes it's like, uh, my favorite thing is
cause I get.
I get teammates that ask myteam members who asked me
questions I haven't thought of,and I'm like that's a great
question.
Can you give me a minute tothink about what the priority is
and I'll get back to you.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Um, and just owning it.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like I hadn't thought of that question.
You asked that's a greatquestion and then coming back
with it, so doing that as aleader.
It's like we think we have toknow everything and the reason I
have a team is I don't want toknow everything.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yes, and I was just about to say that as the leader
you shouldn't have to knoweverything, and so you're not in
the weeds, so to speak.
So sometimes, like you know, ifyou've done the role, like
you'll probably know a lot ofthose things, but even then,
like you're not in it on the dayto day anymore.
Yeah you maybe did it in aprevious role and obviously it's
your company, so you may havedone it when the company was
smaller, but now you're notdoing it, or a process changed,
(28:39):
so you don't know what things.
Here's all your information.
And even then, we're humans, wedon't give every single thing
every single time.
Actually, I was just talking toa friend about creating a
standard operating procedure, anSOP, and I had one of my
virtual assistants.
I was switching from onevirtual assistant to another and
everything and I had her writean SOP based on the roles that
(29:01):
she or functions that she wasdoing.
And I looked it over.
I'm like, yeah, this lookspretty good.
I think we covered everything.
And then the new VA came in andshe's like, hey, well, what
about this?
And I'm like, oh yeah, I forgotabout that step because it was
it was assumed knowledge.
It's knowledge that I had, thatthe other VA also had.
And so it's really hard towrite an SOP out from a
(29:23):
perspective of somebody thatknows nothing.
And so same thing with thatleader trying to give you or
delegate a task to you.
It's hard because they don'tknow what all you do need to
know.
So it's a responsibility ofthat person underneath them and
the ranks to say, hey, I needthis, this and this so I can get
my job done and, if need be,give an explanation on that as
(29:46):
well.
But leadership also needs to bewilling to oh sorry, I missed
that, let me get back to you onthat or rather than just oh well
, here's an answer and then comeback later.
Why'd you do that?
And that's unfortunately wherethe politics and bureaucracy
within big corporations come in,because then you got to make
sure it's documented on emailthis, that and the other.
(30:07):
Lots of fun stuff yeah, it,it's very.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
When you're creating the sops and and things like
that is creating it as ifsomeone's never done this job
before yeah to get too basic youknow it's like click this on
the computer, you know it's likeyeah really basic on things,
because we we do assume thatpeople know things that they
(30:33):
don't know, or they don't knowhow we want it done, even if
they do know that.
So it is um really important todo all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh yeah, and I've had to write a procedure for some
technical stuff using a Linuxoperating system and when you're
in the terminal on Windows youjust do like control C and you
can copy something and, ofcourse, control V to paste it.
Well, in Linux when you're inthe terminal if you hit control
C you close the terminal.
So you have to hit controlshift C.
(31:04):
So I was having to write thosesteps on the procedure and then
I put control V and I put anexplanation of why control shift
C and stuff like that.
But it was funny like I had togo down to that basic for the
people I was writing this forand it was.
(31:25):
I mean, it's painstaking to getto some of those details
sometimes and I really thinkthat, going back to these
expectations, sometimes it feelslike it's painstaking Again,
with my wife telling me to takeout the trash.
It feels painstaking to say Ineed you to take out the trash
right now or I want you to takeout the trash right now.
Can you please stop and just dothis?
It's just easier to say takethe trash out and then get mad
because the expectation wasn'tmet.
(31:46):
But then the other side, it'salso harder for the other person
to say, hey, do you mean rightnow, or can I do that when I
finish here?
Or hey, let me finish this upand I'll get to that right after
that It'll be five minutes.
It's harder to say that insteadof okay, I'll do it.
It's just easier to say thesethings without clearly
(32:07):
communicating the expectationsyeah, so, let me, let's, let's
shift.
So I know we kind of talk abouthow to ask questions, but the,
but the, the perspective shift.
Going back to your sock example,how do you help people, or what
would you suggest to people forthem to really start working on
changing their perspective whenthey see something or when
(32:29):
something happens to them andexpectation isn't met to change
their perspective?
To me it sounded like.
It sounded a lot like let melook at like from their point of
view.
And like you said with yourhusband, you know he loves you.
He does this, this, this, thisand this for you, even if he
might not do the socks, which Imean he wasn't.
He wasn't trying to sabotageyour day by any means.
(32:51):
It wasn't malicious.
Of course you put that in yourmind, that he must hate you.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So how can we, how can we start to change this
perspective on unmetexpectations?
It it had to do with myself-esteem and so in my
identity, my the way that I sawmyself.
One of the things that I love todo at vibrant living is stop
identity theft, and of course,I'm not talking about finances
(33:31):
I'm talking about all thosethings that happen to us failed
relationships, failed businesses, disappointments, perhaps a
difficult childhood trauma allkinds of things create an
identity.
Whether you mean to or not,your brain will do it, it just
(33:52):
does.
And so beginning to look atyourself and the way that you're
viewing yourself and you talkedabout you help people public
speaking.
Well, the same thing isapplying is looking at myself
and figuring out what I'mbelieving about me.
Figuring out what I'm believingabout me because then I can be
(34:16):
a better wife, a better businessowner, a better person in the
world.
And making a difference is whenI can learn who I truly am, who
God created me to be.
What are the gifts that he putin me?
What's the purpose for me?
Because it's good.
His purposes are good, and sodiscovering that and stepping
into that fully and discoveringit.
(34:38):
One of my mentors said Donna,you are a gift to the world, and
the person who's going to bemost surprised is you, because
we don't realize all that'scapable in us.
We all do minimizing, safekeeping, mental activities, and
(34:59):
so we don't realize what ispossible.
And the biggest change is whenI got mentors and coaches.
Because we can't see our ownblind spots, because every idea
we have is fabulous, right, ofcourse, of course, and we're
always right, right.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And so all of that, we don't see those things that
are hindering us from being ourbest to vibrant living, as I
call it, and learning to be ableto take time.
I took my first step wasself-awareness, but it is also
helping having someone help yousee yourself and help you to put
(35:42):
on new glasses that have a newperspective and really changing
from the inside out on whatyou're believing about you, um,
and how that can change.
Every can change.
When I very first startedspeaking, I was in my 20s.
I'd get sick kind of thingevery time before I would go on
(36:02):
stage and learning.
Now I remember it's been quitea few years back, but before
COVID, so at least five and sixyears.
I remember standing on a stageand going you are having a ball.
When did this happen?
When did this happen that youwere having fun doing what you
(36:24):
used to throw up trying to do?
And it all changed with the wayI looked at myself.
What being visible meant to me,which is a whole lot of public
speaking.
It's one of the reasons whyit's.
One of the things people fearthe most is what does being seen
mean?
And if it means I'm most likelygoing to be rejected which is
(36:49):
one of our biggest fears is notbelonging, then I'd rather die
than do that.
So, really learning to work,and to work with someone that's
going to help you be the bestyou today and a better one
tomorrow, so that you can walkwith joy and expectation of good
(37:15):
in things and love being thecenter of it all that you are
loved.
And when we can reallycomprehend which I don't know
that we ever will how much Godloves us.
It can change everything in allof the perspectives, because I
(37:35):
can give my husband permissionto have a bad day, I'm still
God's beloved and understandingall of that.
It changes the way you operate,in every area of your life.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So, so good there, and it really goes back in a
full circle where we starttalking about at the beginning,
about knowing ourselves.
And one thing I think aboutwith that too, especially when
the speaking realm a lot oftimes I find that we feel that
we can't speak on a subject,even if we know it a lot,
because the more we know aboutthis subject, the more we
(38:09):
realize how much we truly don'tknow subject, the more we
realize how much we truly don'tknow, and so we feel like we're
not an expert anymore, when weactually are an expert.
And most people that are tryingto learn from us need the
basics.
They need the milk, so to speak.
They don't need the meat yet.
They need the basic things andthat's what we can teach them.
And a lot of times I like tothink, especially from a
(38:30):
speaking perspective, to speakon what you need.
If you knew this two or threeyears earlier, that's the thing
that you can speak on, like whatyou started doing two or three
years ago.
Your perspective, what youlearn, what you know now that
two or three years younger selfcould have really benefited from
, that's the stuff that you cantalk about.
But the basics in yourexpertise is what, for most
(38:52):
people, is almost going to be onon the cusp of being too much
for them, like it's a little bittoo high level even for them
and everything.
But but really, at the end ofthe day, just really knowing
yourself, you know,self-knowledge,
self-understanding, uh, is whatI'm getting from, what, what
you're saying here andeverything.
So they are really having thatperspective and, of course, if
(39:14):
we can have that outside personhelping us, that helps out a ton
.
But I think even then, justtrying to have that 30,000 foot
view, think about what's thisother person thinking about me
as well.
How would they react in thissituation?
I know for me to become more ofa happy, more positive person
instead of a negative.
Nancy, that's a lot of what Istarted thinking about, like, ok
(39:37):
, do people really like me whenI'm negative, like this, are
these those things?
And it takes a lot of skill tohave that self-awareness and
everything.
But when I started thinkingmore about OK, what do I need to
do to be the person that peoplelike, that people want to be
around and stuff, and what arethe things that I'm doing right
now that people don't like?
And same thing when I got inand started to try and find my
(40:00):
wife officially was.
One of the things was areligious thing.
But what are these other thingsthat a woman would want to marry
me for?
What qualities do I need tohave to be worth marrying?
And I started to work on thoseand building myself up and
everything.
Of course it was things that Iwanted as well.
It wasn't necessarily aboutwhat a woman would want per se,
(40:22):
because I also need to be happywith myself and what I have and
what I'm doing and all thatstuff too, but I still thought
about that end goal andeverything.
So really having thatself-awareness is an important
thing, to be able to have thatself-reflection and that
perspective shift.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
One of my favorite chapters in a book and it's
Stephen Covey's book how to WinFriends and Influence People.
It was chapter two.
It has affected my whole entirelife and it is called Begin with
the End in Mind, and it's kindof creepy, if you will, because
at the beginning he has youattend your own funeral in the
book and it's like so what areso many people going to say
(41:01):
about you?
Who's going to be around?
Who's going to be surroundingyou?
And what are they going to saywhen you've passed, and so, and
then begin to live when you'vepassed, and then begin to live
so that people say what you wanttoday and to be who you are,
who you really are, and toupgrade that.
And so that's what you weredoing when you were talking
(41:22):
about I want to have a greatrelationship with a woman, I
want to be married, I want to bea good man, I want to be a good
husband, perhaps a good father,and all of those things and
what that looks like when youwere talking about speaking.
We often minimize the amount ofinformation we actually know
(41:43):
and you know well, everybodyelse knows more that kind of
stuff and we minimize what we,what we know, but it is one of
the things I have discoveredover the decades now is that
sometimes we need to be toldwhat we already do know, because
I'm not implementing it or Iforgot to, I used to and I quit.
Yeah that's like let's takedevotional time or let's take
(42:06):
declarations, or let's taketaking care of my body I used to
exercise, I quit or whatever,and so all of these things that
we can forget, that's importantto us.
And so always just come andshare, whenever you're speaking,
share what you know from yourheart and pray that it blesses
(42:29):
someone.
You're not responsible for thehearers and pray that it blesses
someone.
You're not responsible for thehearers.
You're only responsible for thedelivery and for giving what
you know and allowing it tobless people, whoever it may,
because how it hits them or howthey receive it is a better word
is not your responsibility.
(42:49):
Your responsibility is to sharewhat you know with love and
help as many people as you canfrom that place.
And when we go into well, theydidn't sign up for my book, or
they didn't sign up my orwhatever, whatever it is that
you were speaking for is theydidn't.
The expectation didn't happen.
Then we go back and saysomething's wrong with me, and
(43:12):
that's not necessarily the case.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
This has been great, donna.
I appreciate so much of thisconversation.
This has been a lot of fun.
I think my favorite one was thefact that we talked about the
hamper that was not able to befilled with socks and everything
.
I think a story so true to somany households for sure, but I
appreciate the time and all ofall the value that you brought
(43:37):
here.
If people want to reach out andfollow you, where's the best
place for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I am on social media, of course, and my name is
unusual, so it's easy to find,and my website is the letter I,
vibrant livingcom, and on myhomepage I have a free guide
called renew, thrive andrecharge in its secrets to
(44:03):
vibrant living, and so that isavailable.
It's a downloadable PDF thatI'm giving away, so if that can
bless anybody, take advantage ofit.
It's on my homepage.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Awesome.
Well, Donna, once again, thankyou so much for coming on the
podcast.
We truly appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
My pleasure.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the
Speaking Sessions podcast.
I have Donna here and she is aninternational spiritual
intelligence method coach,helping people with a burning
desire to achieve their dreams,yearning for more abundance
while maintaining harmony intheir lives, and seeking the
(00:21):
path to prosperity withoutcompromising their health and
relationships.
And she specializes in helpingyou unlock the secrets of
spiritual intelligence, makingit easier than ever to empower
your dreams.
And I really wanted her to comeon to help us talk about
relationships, especially asbusiness owners.
That's probably the thing thatholds us back the most is the
(00:44):
fact that we have issues in ourown relationships.
How can we have thoseconversations?
How can we make sure thoserelationships stay strong so we
can continue to grow ourbusiness and also find that
balance or that harmony betweenrelationships and everything?
But before we get into that,donna, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you very much, Philip.
It is a pleasure to be heretoday.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, excited to have you.
Like I mentioned, you'retalking about relationships and
everything.
I think it's something that wereally should talk about and I
believe that communication is ahuge aspect of that.
And, like I said, having thatsupportive spouse, or really
getting that spouse on boardwith the business, is something
that's very important to reallyhelp the business move forward.
(01:29):
Not that it can't if the spouseisn't on board or the
communication isn't quite there,but it definitely makes things,
especially life and business, alot easier if you have them on
board or at least anunderstanding of what you're
trying to do with the businessand everything.
So, looking forward to divinginto that, but tell us more
about you.
(01:50):
I know it's a broad, openstatement, but tell us more
about you.
What got you into what you doand how exactly you help people?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Sure, I have been coaching and mentoring
predominantly women, but peoplefor over 30 years, and in the
beginning we didn't really callit coaching.
That's been a new word that hasreally surfaced, probably in
the last 15 years or so thatit's gotten bigger.
(02:21):
But learning in the beginningit was something that I just
found myself doing.
If I had a nickel for everytime somebody said I've never
told anybody this I'd be quitewealthy.
And so it's learning to in thebeginning.
I think that we don't oftenrecognize what our gifts are.
(02:41):
We talk about you talked aboutharmony, but harmony starts
first with me.
Harmony starts first with mebeing authentic and recognizing
what lights me up and whatcauses me to be enthusiastic and
(03:01):
passionate about my work.
That I'm doing A lot of timesin.
My husband worked for UPS for30 years and I would not say
that that got him excited everymorning when he got up, and so
how do you sometimes do that andstill maintain the
relationships is anotherquestion is how do you get up
(03:23):
every day when you're notenthusiastic?
Is another question is how doyou get up every day when you're
not enthusiastic?
And so there's some of that,probably both in the audience,
people doing things that theyabsolutely love, and then people
doing things that perhaps youknow is not your primary passion
, that you live.
So the first step is what'simportant to you and really
doing a self inventory.
(03:44):
I call this awareness.
It's like where have I been?
Where am I to want to go?
What are my gifts?
I call it creating your map.
Creating a blueprint is anotherword that I use to describe.
And first we need to start withawareness of what's important to
me.
So if you happen to be in amarriage relationship or some
(04:07):
type of a relationship like that, where that is important to you
, communicating that that'simportant, even if your boss
tells you you have to work lateor you have to come in early, or
you have to miss a kid's soccergame, which happened to us, we
have family plans, and he says,nope, we've had a when, when my
(04:30):
husband was in security, we'vehad a theft at UPS, you've got
to come and investigate it.
I don't really care what youhad planned, drop everything and
you're coming into work, andthat happened a lot, and so, but
he but communicating with mewhat is true values were helped
us to move through those periodsof times.
(04:51):
So first step is awareness ofwhat you want, what are your
values and what is important toyou.
Harmony is a much better wordthan balanced, even though I use
that in my balanced blueprintacademy.
Um.
Harmony is a better wordbecause balance makes me think
(05:11):
that you get.
You get 50, 50 and you get 50yeah or everybody gets 25, and
it's really not like that.
It's working from values andsometimes work calls you in.
But that does not mean that Ihave less or I have a project or
something.
It does not mean that myhusband is not important to me,
(05:37):
it's this is taking time rightnow, and so that harmony is a
much I love the word much better, even though we all say I want
to have a balanced life, and sothat's why I called it the
balanced blueprint, because itdoes resonate.
But if you want to arrive inChicago, you need to know where
you're starting from andthinking about where am I?
(06:00):
And really being honest withyourself, how are you doing in
your marriage?
How are you doing in yourhealth, your personal health?
How are you doing in otheroutside relationships?
How are you doing in yourspiritual life?
What is important to you?
All of those pieces and partsof you, how are they going?
(06:21):
Rate them periodically, andthen you make adjustments.
I'm really into quarterly goals, not annual goals, even though
we all need the annual goals,because I can adjust I'm moving
a ship, if you will, and it'sdegrees, and it makes we often
(06:44):
underestimate what those littlesmall decisions.
They actually create miracles.
One decision after another,decision after another decision
can create miraculous results,but we don't often think so,
because it doesn't feel big inthat.
So what's your thoughts aboutthat?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
No, I completely agree with you, and there's so
many things.
I think about one with like theone degree, and I don't know
the whole analogy, but it's likeif you're going from LA to New
York and you go off by like onedegree, you end up somewhere
else and it's like way different.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Like China or something.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, maybe not that far, but yeah, you end up way
far off from going to New Yorkand everything, so that one
degree is so important.
But I couldn't help but thinkabout and I've shared this
before.
It's been a while since Ishared it, but whenever my wife
and I were dating at the timeand I had this problem with
relationships where I would kindof bring up how religion was
important and stuff to me, but Iwould never say like you know,
(07:48):
I would never be like superforthcoming about or very direct
about it.
It was like, oh, you know, it'simportant for me, I kind of do
it, but then I just wouldn'treally bring it up too much in
the relationship because Ididn't want to make it be like a
pain point or anything likethat or make it uncomfortable.
But then basically everyrelationship would just end, and
(08:09):
typically sometimes it would bebefore religious stuff would
come up.
But a lot of times it'd bebecause of a misalignment that
was there that I definitely knewfrom the start, but they didn't
necessarily know and so itseemed like this whole thing
that and I don't know theirperspective because we just
broke up and moved on, we didn'ttalk to each other.
But I'm sure they probably feltlike, well, I'm not meeting,
(08:30):
it's an unmet expectation thatI'm not meeting for Phillip, and
that was similar with my wife.
But we had talked about it and Iwas direct about it, and then
she started not really going tochurch with me and so at first
I'm like, well, this isn'tworking out.
But then I'm like, well, let mehave that conversation with her
, let me let her know again,here's where I'm at, here's what
I need and what I expect.
(08:51):
And she did want that.
She just didn't realize what Imeant by that Cause I, because I
had said something about like Iwant some, you know, I want to
raise a family that goes tochurch, and stuff like that,
which, when I say just goes tochurch, does that mean once a
month, once a year?
I'm like, what does that mean?
So I had to be more specific,like you know, going very, you
know every week, and stuff likethat.
And so when I had thatconversation, it was that and
(09:13):
actually expressed thatexpectation.
The relationship got betterthere and of course now we're
married and everything.
But it was almost to the pointwhere I was like I think this
isn't going to work out, butprior to her.
It was this kind of unmetexpectation, it was this idea
that, yeah, I want somebody thatgoes to church, that does the
things, whatever else was inthere.
(09:35):
But I never fully expressedthose things, and part of it I
just didn't know exactly.
For me either, a lot of it wasI was more focused on the
physical appearance, because Iwas really into fitness and
everything as well, and I waslike, oh, you know, church is a
thing, but you know, thephysical appearance was a higher
priority on my list until Ifinally had that self-reflection
(09:56):
and I think it's important thatyou mentioned that, that
self-reflection, that you needto do that and figure out
yourself first and going to likeagain with the annual goals you
talked about too, knowing whereyou're trying to go.
Now you can create thosequarterly goals or even at a
minimum, have those quarterlygoals, and you can make those
adjustments because you knowgoing back to the flight analogy
(10:17):
, if I'm now veering towardsChina instead of New York, well,
I probably need to adjust tomake sure I'm going towards New
York.
You know where you're going.
But that all starts with youknowing you, knowing what you
want, getting your own internalhouse in order, and then you can
start to have the conversationswith a spouse or business
partner or whatever it is.
(10:37):
But you have to know what youwant first and to be able to
fight and have a conversation ata minimum.
Maybe not fight fight might notbe a good word but to be able
to have a conversation anddiscuss about why you expect
this thing or why you want thisthing and everything and having
those important things and stufflike that, and just to be able
(10:58):
to start that conversation.
But you have to know you first.
So I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I think the biggest thing of what I heard you say is
you told her why.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You didn't just tell her you need to go to church
every week with me, becausethat's not the way you said it.
But you could have thatconversation with people.
I think we in general we have afear of telling people really
(11:32):
what we want for the fear ofrejection or breaking you know
something not going well.
And it's the same thing evenwith serving people.
I really don't call it sales,but serving people is the same
thing as I should give myselfpermission to say no, this isn't
(11:57):
the right person for me to workwith, or yes, it is, and really
saying who I am and who I serveand what I'm wanting to myself
first of all, like you're saying, yeah.
So that we can have thatauthentic and as you go on in
your marriage.
How long have you been married?
(12:17):
Five, years.
Congratulations.
Yeah really long time.
Next week I am celebrating 40.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Wow, that's a very long time.
You don't hear a lot of thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So in that period of time, what's important to me
shifts and having thosecontinual conversations of
saying what I wanted.
One of my husband and I we'vegot lots of marriage stories.
We've had a business.
I've had a business since I was19.
So I've always been doingsomething and so we've had a lot
(12:55):
of experiences together and nowa laughing experience.
Not all of them were at thetime, but we were coming home
from church and he says do youwant to go out to eat?
And I knew money was just alittle bit tight, you know.
So I'm like I'll just have asalad, I'll just go home and
have a salad.
I didn't want a salad, I wantedMexican.
(13:15):
But I didn't tell him what Iwanted and it ended up being a
whole afternoon grumpy thingbecause he didn't take me for
Mexican when I didn't ask forMexican.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, didn't say it at all.
You said it in your head,though.
He should have read your mind.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
He should have known how dare he he should have known
when I said I just will have asalad, that I didn't really want
a salad, but I didn't tell himlike that.
He heard I'll have a salad, andso you know, it's just.
All of this goes on and ithappens in every relationship
where we we assume peopleunderstand, or we assume people
(13:51):
know, or this is another one wehave some kind of expectation
about how they're supposed tobehave, but we've never told
them what we're expecting.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, I found unmet expectations, or known
expectations, rather, that areunmet.
Because of that, yes, aretypically.
That's usually what I get introuble with, whether it's my
wife having the.
It's unknown for me what herexpectation is, or vice versa.
That tends to be more of ourarguments than the fact that we
(14:21):
know the expectation of theother.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Absolutely so.
Be bold enough to ask is myadvice?
Be bold enough to say, not in agrumpy way and not a slamming
doors, cupboard way even thoughI've done that but saying I want
Mexican today, Do you think wecan have it in our budget to do
that?
And just saying, and if we bothdecide no, we better go home
(14:44):
and make lunch.
And we do that, but it's likelearning to be able to say what
we want.
This is.
This is not necessarilybusiness related, but can I tell
you one other story?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, all right.
So my husband and I have hadthis conversation.
We've been married a while.
We were together beforemarriage, so we've been together
a good you know, most of ouradult life.
And he still has troublegetting his socks all the way
into his laundry.
You know the hamper for it tobe washed.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
That hamper.
It's a tricky thing.
I tell you it's a trick.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And so for you, for anybody who wants to check me
out, I had a traumatic childhoodand and and everything, and
that creates a lot of lowself-esteem.
We'll just summarize in sayingthat, um and so I remember early
on in our marriage and I'm likeI see the socks.
He's gone to work.
I see the socks.
(15:41):
I'm home with three children.
You know all the things, allthe things are going on.
You know fighting and toys anddirty diapers and all the things
.
And I see these socks and I'mlike he can't even get the socks
into the hamper.
If he really loved me now listento this statement If he really
loved me, he'd put those socksin the hamper.
(16:02):
But he must think I'm his maid.
He doesn't really care and Istew on on this all day long.
Now can you imagine what it'slike when he comes in the door?
He didn't know what he's done.
We do not have a good evening.
Okay, that's one scenario, andthat happened.
Another scenario is I began towell.
God talked to me and taught mea lot, and I began to well.
(16:23):
God talked to me and taught mea lot, and I began to learn and
I said I, I'm like he didn't putthe socks in the hamper.
How many ways does he show mehe loves me?
Every day, and I begin to listthem.
He does this, he does this, hedoes this.
He's working hard.
He does all of these otherthings to show me he loves me.
(16:45):
Wow, I'm really a blessed woman.
And I pick up the socks and putthem in the hamper and I go on
about my day.
Now do you think we have abetter evening?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I would say so.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
And all that changed was my perspective.
I'm the one who changed.
He still has trouble gettingthem in the hamper, but I didn't
create the meaning that thatmeant X, y, z.
I began to create the meaningthat of all of the other things
(17:19):
that he did to show me he lovesme.
And learning to do that in ourexpectations in business, in
life, you can look at it in allkinds of ways is what our
expectations are.
We're the ones who make thebiggest shift.
Which is at the core ofspiritual intelligence is you
are the creator of your world.
(17:40):
You are the creator of yourworld.
You are the creator of yourexperience.
What do you want to createtoday?
As a man thinks in his heart,so is he.
So my first story, I was anunloved wife, and my second
story, in the other story, I wasabsolutely cherished and adored
(18:01):
, and the only person whochanged was my perspective on
what I chose to believe, thinkand meditate on, and it created
a whole new world.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, and like you said, that experience at dinner
that night when he got home wasbetter for him.
I'm sure he loved that side ofyou way more and then for you as
well, like you felt so muchbetter because, rather than
being so mad all day long inthis negative mindset and then
come home and now you, I'm sureas you, were negative and kind
(18:33):
of hateful towards him orregretting him and not feeling
loved by him, that was beingshown and so then therefore he's
like, he's like I don't reallywant to show her love because
she's not showing me love and wekind of get childish with it.
But that's just natural ashumans that we do that and I
can't help.
I've got a sock story too.
My wife.
(18:54):
She does the laundry, so it'snot like it kills me every once
while I try and help her outwith that and stuff and and I'll
give her a hard time becauseyou know mainly she does the
laundry.
But she's told me she's like,oh my gosh, I love you so much
Because when I take my socks off, I take them off and the
outside is still on the outsideand for some reason she just
decides to grab them from thetop and pull it through and so
(19:16):
the inside is out, and thenshe's got to go and put them all
back in.
She does the same thing withher shirts and everything.
She's like I'm just so thankfulthat you don't do that.
I'm like, yeah, I want to belike.
Yeah, because I'm not a freak.
I'm like, yeah, you're welcome,I love you too, like I don't
(19:37):
know.
I'm like I don't know why thatthat unmet expectation in in the
workforce as well, where thatthat comes up.
Or you know, you expectsomebody to do something a
certain way or get somethingdone by a certain time and you
just say, hey, I need you to getthis done.
Ok, well, you didn't set it.
You didn't set a deadline, youdidn't tell me how important it
(19:59):
was.
I had other things going on.
So I decided either okay, I'llget to it when I get to it,
which means it's probably at thebottom of my list now I don't
know the importance behind it, Idon't know when you need it, so
I'm going to get it done.
But now you're mad because Ididn't get it done in time,
which really I could say thatwith the trash.
I'm sure there's other menlistening to this right now, if
(20:19):
my wife wants me to get thetrash out now.
But I'll just say, hey, can youtake the trash out?
Okay, yeah, I'll get to it, letme.
And I'm like, yeah, I'll get toit, let me finish this thing up
.
And of course I could have beenbetter saying, yeah, let me
finish this up real quick.
Or hey, do you need me to getit out of the way?
(20:43):
First I my hand and say, youknow, I'm at fault too.
But then she will get madsometimes because I didn't do it
right.
Then I didn't drop everythingand do it in the moment because
she didn't explain herexpectation of it and of course,
again, I didn't explain what Iwas doing, that I couldn't.
I mean, I guess I could, but Ididn't ask that question either,
which is what you talk about aswell.
Start to ask the questions,change that perspective, and I
like that you talked aboutchanging that perspective, and
(21:05):
so I really want to dive downthese two things.
I think both of them areequally important.
Maybe let's start with thequestion like how can we help
ourselves?
Remember to ask questions likethat, because I found that for
me with getting better atcommunication, when somebody
asks for something, that I'llask those questions.
Hey, you know, is thisimportant to you?
(21:26):
Or when's the deadline on this?
I might ask for some clarifyingquestions to get a better feel
of the importance or when thisthing is due.
But I've trained myself and I'mnot a hundred percent on this,
but I've trained myself to thinkabout that.
But then the other aspect ofthe perspective shift.
So I'd love to hear, like, howyou go about that, and I'm sure
(21:46):
you're helping other people withthat.
But how do you, how do youstart to ask those questions and
get the clarity and understandthe expectation instead of just
assuming what that expectationis?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, just a blanket statement, pretty much for all
the wives out there.
We ask you to do what it meansnow.
Just you know, just say it lovea good stereotype uh, if there's
any woman out there thatdisagrees with me, let me know.
But I kind of think that it,and it probably is very similar
for a man, if he asks for aspecific thing, we there is this
(22:18):
thing that I want, I want a cupof coffee now, or whatever it
is.
Um, you know those kinds ofthings.
So that's kind of understood,that that it maybe shouldn't be
so, but it is.
So it becomes on our part tosay is it all right if I finish
doing X, y, z and then do it andthat kind of is beginning to
(22:41):
communicate?
So that's in the home life, isis just understanding and and
asking those kinds of questionsas we go along.
I had that happen today.
I asked my husband at breakfastto do something and he went and
did something else.
So I did it and he called melater.
He goes, I forgot to do thatand I'm like, don't worry, it's
(23:01):
done.
But thank you for calling andremembering.
And so it happened this morning, you know, and I'm like you
know it means now, yeah, butit's 40 years of marriage.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
So you just, you just laugh about it and you don't
make mountains out of littlethings, you just laugh about it
and you don't make mountains outof little things.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You just laugh about it and move on.
It's no big deal, that kind ofthing In work.
It's really important tocommunicate when your deadlines
are, what your expectations are,especially if you're in
leadership.
If someone's not accomplishingthe job, you have to go back to
you and ask how you arecommunicating the expectations,
(23:41):
procedures, how you want it done.
All of that there are so manyways.
You know, in the old days wehad written policies and
procedures and jobs descriptionsand all that kind of stuff and
now you can do videos todescribe everything you want and
communicate it ways.
So just always communicationand if you're an employee or
(24:06):
someone answering to someone isalways ask, ask, questions.
There are no stupid questions.
Always ask and hopefully that'sacceptable in that environment.
But I'm not sure about this part.
When did you want this done?
And just beginning to ask thosekinds of questions to be able
(24:26):
to communicate everybody'sexpectations and if something's
not going well, is revisiting itand again allowing that
communication to occur to?
Oh, you told me that this hadto be done my next Tuesday, but
I run into this and this withthese suppliers and I can't find
the answers, to be able to haveit done and communicate that?
(24:48):
Yeah, so that if I'm answeringto you, you know I've not
neglected it, that there hasbeen some hiccups and that's
come along and it may take justa little bit longer.
I wanted to communicate thatwith you, or do you want me to
eliminate that and just move on?
Do you see?
It's like I'm asking thosekinds of questions, um, to be
(25:09):
able to work through things andjust keep talking and really
saying what's going on is isgood, no matter where you are.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, yeah, such an important thing.
I know kind of a funny story, Iguess somewhat good, somewhat
bad communication.
But I know in a previous rolethat I had, I was working on all
these approvals for someequipment we had and there was
different certifications, and soyou're going through these
government entities and stuff.
So of course, governmentthey're fast as can be and
(25:39):
everything just happens veryquickly.
It would take forever, but Imean it was like 10 or 15
different approvals and so Ijust had a list, like okay, we
need to get these.
So I just started, I just madea list and start at the top.
I didn't have any order.
And then I had asked for likehey, what's the order on this?
Is there any importance?
To my manager and he kind ofpushed back and he's like, well,
(26:02):
they just need to get done.
I'm like, yeah, but withtalking to these government
agencies, they need information.
I can get that, but then I'mwaiting.
So which ones are moreimportant?
So I can make sure I'm reallyprioritizing those?
And then I guess he had some badexperience with the previous
one.
He finally brought that up inthe conversation but it was like
, well, you know, you just gotto get.
You know you need to work on allof them.
(26:23):
But I'm like, yeah, but I needto order a priority, so from
management saying what's themost important, because
otherwise I'm going based on Icreated a list and I'm just
going top to bottom and when Ican't work on one I'll go to the
next one, but I might put thetop priority at the very bottom
and so you're expecting to bedone first.
So I had to like really drawthat out of him for him to
(26:45):
understand that Uh, that wassome of those things like a
situation I had to go through toreally get the clarity and the
expectation you know, and reallythe priority of the list and
everything.
But it was really interestingto to hear him kind of he
expected me just to work oneverything and then, if I didn't
, or if he gave me a priority,that I would only focus on that
(27:06):
one thing.
But I guess overall theconversation was good, even
though there was a lot ofassumptions on his side.
At least when I started askingquestions he was at least
forthcoming with some of thoseassumptions and everything and
that I could go and ask morequestions or give more
information on that.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
That's a great example.
Sometimes we ask those kind ofquestions and they don't know
the answers.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, they haven't really thought through,
they just gave you this wholeproject without actually
thinking it through, aboutwhat's most important.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And so then when you ask, if I say, well, I don't
really know, I look stupidimportant.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And so then, when you ask if I say well, I don't
really know I look stupid, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So sometimes it's like, uh, my favorite thing is
cause I get.
I get teammates that ask myteam members who asked me
questions I haven't thought of,and I'm like that's a great
question.
Can you give me a minute tothink about what the priority is
and I'll get back to you.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Um, and just owning it.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like I hadn't thought of that question.
You asked that's a greatquestion and then coming back
with it, so doing that as aleader.
It's like we think we have toknow everything and the reason I
have a team is I don't want toknow everything.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yes, and I was just about to say that as the leader
you shouldn't have to knoweverything, and so you're not in
the weeds, so to speak.
So sometimes, like you know, ifyou've done the role, like
you'll probably know a lot ofthose things, but even then,
like you're not in it on the dayto day anymore.
Yeah you maybe did it in aprevious role and obviously it's
your company, so you may havedone it when the company was
smaller, but now you're notdoing it, or a process changed,
(28:39):
so you don't know what things.
Here's all your information.
And even then, we're humans, wedon't give every single thing
every single time.
Actually, I was just talking toa friend about creating a
standard operating procedure, anSOP, and I had one of my
virtual assistants.
I was switching from onevirtual assistant to another and
everything and I had her writean SOP based on the roles that
(29:01):
she or functions that she wasdoing.
And I looked it over.
I'm like, yeah, this lookspretty good.
I think we covered everything.
And then the new VA came in andshe's like, hey, well, what
about this?
And I'm like, oh yeah, I forgotabout that step because it was
it was assumed knowledge.
It's knowledge that I had, thatthe other VA also had.
And so it's really hard towrite an SOP out from a
(29:23):
perspective of somebody thatknows nothing.
And so same thing with thatleader trying to give you or
delegate a task to you.
It's hard because they don'tknow what all you do need to
know.
So it's a responsibility ofthat person underneath them and
the ranks to say, hey, I needthis, this and this so I can get
my job done and, if need be,give an explanation on that as
(29:46):
well.
But leadership also needs to bewilling to oh sorry, I missed
that, let me get back to you onthat or rather than just oh well
, here's an answer and then comeback later.
Why'd you do that?
And that's unfortunately wherethe politics and bureaucracy
within big corporations come in,because then you got to make
sure it's documented on emailthis, that and the other.
(30:07):
Lots of fun stuff yeah, it,it's very.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
When you're creating the sops and and things like
that is creating it as ifsomeone's never done this job
before yeah to get too basic youknow it's like click this on
the computer, you know it's likeyeah really basic on things,
because we we do assume thatpeople know things that they
(30:33):
don't know, or they don't knowhow we want it done, even if
they do know that.
So it is um really important todo all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh yeah, and I've had to write a procedure for some
technical stuff using a Linuxoperating system and when you're
in the terminal on Windows youjust do like control C and you
can copy something and, ofcourse, control V to paste it.
Well, in Linux when you're inthe terminal if you hit control
C you close the terminal.
So you have to hit controlshift C.
(31:04):
So I was having to write thosesteps on the procedure and then
I put control V and I put anexplanation of why control shift
C and stuff like that.
But it was funny like I had togo down to that basic for the
people I was writing this forand it was.
(31:25):
I mean, it's painstaking to getto some of those details
sometimes and I really thinkthat, going back to these
expectations, sometimes it feelslike it's painstaking Again,
with my wife telling me to takeout the trash.
It feels painstaking to say Ineed you to take out the trash
right now or I want you to takeout the trash right now.
Can you please stop and just dothis?
It's just easier to say takethe trash out and then get mad
because the expectation wasn'tmet.
(31:46):
But then the other side, it'salso harder for the other person
to say, hey, do you mean rightnow, or can I do that when I
finish here?
Or hey, let me finish this upand I'll get to that right after
that It'll be five minutes.
It's harder to say that insteadof okay, I'll do it.
It's just easier to say thesethings without clearly
(32:07):
communicating the expectationsyeah, so, let me, let's, let's
shift.
So I know we kind of talk abouthow to ask questions, but the,
but the, the perspective shift.
Going back to your sock example,how do you help people, or what
would you suggest to people forthem to really start working on
changing their perspective whenthey see something or when
(32:29):
something happens to them andexpectation isn't met to change
their perspective?
To me it sounded like.
It sounded a lot like let melook at like from their point of
view.
And like you said with yourhusband, you know he loves you.
He does this, this, this, thisand this for you, even if he
might not do the socks, which Imean he wasn't.
He wasn't trying to sabotageyour day by any means.
(32:51):
It wasn't malicious.
Of course you put that in yourmind, that he must hate you.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So how can we, how can we start to change this
perspective on unmetexpectations?
It it had to do with myself-esteem and so in my
identity, my the way that I sawmyself.
One of the things that I love todo at vibrant living is stop
identity theft, and of course,I'm not talking about finances
(33:31):
I'm talking about all thosethings that happen to us failed
relationships, failed businesses, disappointments, perhaps a
difficult childhood trauma allkinds of things create an
identity.
Whether you mean to or not,your brain will do it, it just
(33:52):
does.
And so beginning to look atyourself and the way that you're
viewing yourself and you talkedabout you help people public
speaking.
Well, the same thing isapplying is looking at myself
and figuring out what I'mbelieving about me.
Figuring out what I'm believingabout me because then I can be
(34:16):
a better wife, a better businessowner, a better person in the
world.
And making a difference is whenI can learn who I truly am, who
God created me to be.
What are the gifts that he putin me?
What's the purpose for me?
Because it's good.
His purposes are good, and sodiscovering that and stepping
into that fully and discoveringit.
(34:38):
One of my mentors said Donna,you are a gift to the world, and
the person who's going to bemost surprised is you, because
we don't realize all that'scapable in us.
We all do minimizing, safekeeping, mental activities, and
(34:59):
so we don't realize what ispossible.
And the biggest change is whenI got mentors and coaches.
Because we can't see our ownblind spots, because every idea
we have is fabulous, right, ofcourse, of course, and we're
always right, right.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And so all of that, we don't see those things that
are hindering us from being ourbest to vibrant living, as I
call it, and learning to be ableto take time.
I took my first step wasself-awareness, but it is also
helping having someone help yousee yourself and help you to put
(35:42):
on new glasses that have a newperspective and really changing
from the inside out on whatyou're believing about you, um,
and how that can change.
Every can change.
When I very first startedspeaking, I was in my 20s.
I'd get sick kind of thingevery time before I would go on
(36:02):
stage and learning.
Now I remember it's been quitea few years back, but before
COVID, so at least five and sixyears.
I remember standing on a stageand going you are having a ball.
When did this happen?
When did this happen that youwere having fun doing what you
(36:24):
used to throw up trying to do?
And it all changed with the wayI looked at myself.
What being visible meant to me,which is a whole lot of public
speaking.
It's one of the reasons whyit's.
One of the things people fearthe most is what does being seen
mean?
And if it means I'm most likelygoing to be rejected which is
(36:49):
one of our biggest fears is notbelonging, then I'd rather die
than do that.
So, really learning to work,and to work with someone that's
going to help you be the bestyou today and a better one
tomorrow, so that you can walkwith joy and expectation of good
(37:15):
in things and love being thecenter of it all that you are
loved.
And when we can reallycomprehend which I don't know
that we ever will how much Godloves us.
It can change everything in allof the perspectives, because I
(37:35):
can give my husband permissionto have a bad day, I'm still
God's beloved and understandingall of that.
It changes the way you operate,in every area of your life.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So, so good there, and it really goes back in a
full circle where we starttalking about at the beginning,
about knowing ourselves.
And one thing I think aboutwith that too, especially when
the speaking realm a lot oftimes I find that we feel that
we can't speak on a subject,even if we know it a lot,
because the more we know aboutthis subject, the more we
(38:09):
realize how much we truly don'tknow subject, the more we
realize how much we truly don'tknow, and so we feel like we're
not an expert anymore, when weactually are an expert.
And most people that are tryingto learn from us need the
basics.
They need the milk, so to speak.
They don't need the meat yet.
They need the basic things andthat's what we can teach them.
And a lot of times I like tothink, especially from a
(38:30):
speaking perspective, to speakon what you need.
If you knew this two or threeyears earlier, that's the thing
that you can speak on, like whatyou started doing two or three
years ago.
Your perspective, what youlearn, what you know now that
two or three years younger selfcould have really benefited from
, that's the stuff that you cantalk about.
But the basics in yourexpertise is what, for most
(38:52):
people, is almost going to be onon the cusp of being too much
for them, like it's a little bittoo high level even for them
and everything.
But but really, at the end ofthe day, just really knowing
yourself, you know,self-knowledge,
self-understanding, uh, is whatI'm getting from, what, what
you're saying here andeverything.
So they are really having thatperspective and, of course, if
(39:14):
we can have that outside personhelping us, that helps out a ton
.
But I think even then, justtrying to have that 30,000 foot
view, think about what's thisother person thinking about me
as well.
How would they react in thissituation?
I know for me to become more ofa happy, more positive person
instead of a negative.
Nancy, that's a lot of what Istarted thinking about, like, ok
(39:37):
, do people really like me whenI'm negative, like this, are
these those things?
And it takes a lot of skill tohave that self-awareness and
everything.
But when I started thinkingmore about OK, what do I need to
do to be the person that peoplelike, that people want to be
around and stuff, and what arethe things that I'm doing right
now that people don't like?
And same thing when I got inand started to try and find my
(40:00):
wife officially was.
One of the things was areligious thing.
But what are these other thingsthat a woman would want to marry
me for?
What qualities do I need tohave to be worth marrying?
And I started to work on thoseand building myself up and
everything.
Of course it was things that Iwanted as well.
It wasn't necessarily aboutwhat a woman would want per se,
(40:22):
because I also need to be happywith myself and what I have and
what I'm doing and all thatstuff too, but I still thought
about that end goal andeverything.
So really having thatself-awareness is an important
thing, to be able to have thatself-reflection and that
perspective shift.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
One of my favorite chapters in a book and it's
Stephen Covey's book how to WinFriends and Influence People.
It was chapter two.
It has affected my whole entirelife and it is called Begin with
the End in Mind, and it's kindof creepy, if you will, because
at the beginning he has youattend your own funeral in the
book and it's like so what areso many people going to say
(41:01):
about you?
Who's going to be around?
Who's going to be surroundingyou?
And what are they going to saywhen you've passed, and so, and
then begin to live when you'vepassed, and then begin to live
so that people say what you wanttoday and to be who you are,
who you really are, and toupgrade that.
And so that's what you weredoing when you were talking
(41:22):
about I want to have a greatrelationship with a woman, I
want to be married, I want to bea good man, I want to be a good
husband, perhaps a good father,and all of those things and
what that looks like when youwere talking about speaking.
We often minimize the amount ofinformation we actually know
(41:43):
and you know well, everybodyelse knows more that kind of
stuff and we minimize what we,what we know, but it is one of
the things I have discoveredover the decades now is that
sometimes we need to be toldwhat we already do know, because
I'm not implementing it or Iforgot to, I used to and I quit.
Yeah that's like let's takedevotional time or let's take
(42:06):
declarations, or let's taketaking care of my body I used to
exercise, I quit or whatever,and so all of these things that
we can forget, that's importantto us.
And so always just come andshare, whenever you're speaking,
share what you know from yourheart and pray that it blesses
(42:29):
someone.
You're not responsible for thehearers and pray that it blesses
someone.
You're not responsible for thehearers.
You're only responsible for thedelivery and for giving what
you know and allowing it tobless people, whoever it may,
because how it hits them or howthey receive it is a better word
is not your responsibility.
(42:49):
Your responsibility is to sharewhat you know with love and
help as many people as you canfrom that place.
And when we go into well, theydidn't sign up for my book, or
they didn't sign up my orwhatever, whatever it is that
you were speaking for is theydidn't.
The expectation didn't happen.
Then we go back and saysomething's wrong with me, and
(43:12):
that's not necessarily the case.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
This has been great, donna.
I appreciate so much of thisconversation.
This has been a lot of fun.
I think my favorite one was thefact that we talked about the
hamper that was not able to befilled with socks and everything
.
I think a story so true to somany households for sure, but I
appreciate the time and all ofall the value that you brought
(43:37):
here.
If people want to reach out andfollow you, where's the best
place for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I am on social media, of course, and my name is
unusual, so it's easy to find,and my website is the letter I,
vibrant livingcom, and on myhomepage I have a free guide
called renew, thrive andrecharge in its secrets to
(44:03):
vibrant living, and so that isavailable.
It's a downloadable PDF thatI'm giving away, so if that can
bless anybody, take advantage ofit.
It's on my homepage.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Awesome.
Well, Donna, once again, thankyou so much for coming on the
podcast.
We truly appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
My pleasure.
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