February 21, 2024 • 44 mins
Embark on a riveting journey through the ever-evolving work landscape with Eryn Peters, a visionary at the forefront of the future of work. Our conversation peels back the layers of how the gig economy is fundamentally reshaping professional trajectories, highlighting the interplay of full-time roles and side hustles. Eryn's expertise shines as she discusses the 'skillification' of labor and why it's critical to keep your finger on the pulse of workforce trends to thrive in a project-based economy. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone seeking to understand the freelance phenomenon and how to leverage it for career growth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Portia Mount (00:03):
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a
career and lifestyle podcastfor aspiring women.
I'm Portia Mount.
Join me and my co-host, TiffanyWaddell-Tate, this season on
our mission to help women findtheir purpose, lead high-impact
careers, and live fulfillingpersonal lives by sharing the
stories of women who've carvedtheir own path to success.
(00:23):
The future is female.
Let's get started.
Hello squad, our guest today isEryn Peters.
Eryn is a future of workevangelist, retired digital
digital nomad and scale-upbuilder.
She is the founder of StartupConsortium, a boutique agency,
(00:44):
the editor of Weekly Workforceand the global director of the
Association of the Future ofWork.
Before founding startupconsortium, she built two
unicorns in the staffingindustry where saw firsthand the
challenges that tech companiesand workers go through worldwide
.
She has dedicated her career toexploring the high performing
teams of global knowledgefast-paced in environments.
(01:05):
Her work in freelance andplatform economies has impacted
over three million workers in190 plus countries.
You can find Eryn on LinkedInand be sure to subscribe to her
amazing newsletter, weeklyworkforce, at wwwweeklyworkforce
.
com.
As always, you can find theselinks in the show notes.
(01:26):
Eryn, a welcome to you, the pod.
Eryn Peters (01:29):
Thank you for having me.
It's nice to be here, so, Erynlet's just jump in here.
Portia Mount (01:34):
But first off, where does this podcast find you
?
Eryn Peters (01:37):
I'm in my home office in London in the UK.
Portia Mount (01:43):
Wonderful, and I think you're our first
international guest, so I'mreally excited about that.
Eryn Peters (01:48):
So you know, yeah, so yeah.
Portia Mount (01:51):
So, Eryn, we've been talking I feel like we've
been talking about the future ofwork forever.
The future is here, it'sactually happening, but where do
you think we actually stand asfar as the future of work goes?
Like, what does it really meanfor the average professional?
Eryn Peters (02:09):
Yeah, you know, for the average person it probably
sounds like this futurist mumbojumbo, but in reality, it's just
about keeping up with trends.
If you think about it, 30% ofour life is happening in the
workplace, so you might as wellstay on top of what's happening
around you because, quitefrankly, there's a lot of
opportunities to accelerate yourcareer or growth opportunities,
(02:30):
and you can either be proactivewith change or be blindsided by
it.
So I think the average personreally should stay on top of
some of these trends, becausethere's just a lot of chances
that you can take advantage ofit.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (02:43):
Eryn, when you talk about the average
person staying on top of trendsfor those that might not be
paying fully in tune with what'shappening, can you get a quick
primer on the size of thefreelance industry and why it's
continuing to grow and why thatmatters?
Eryn Peters (02:59):
Absolutely.
You know, I think it's a lotbigger than people think.
So 38% of the US workforceperformed freelance work in 2023
, and it was accounting forabout $1.27 trillion in the US
which is wild, that is wild,that is absolutely wild, yeah.
So a lot of people just don'tthink that it's this popular or
(03:21):
mainstream.
But if you think about it,people are going.
Oh, it's kind of black andwhite You're either an employee
or a freelancer and what we'reseeing is this trend of more and
more people doing both.
They're moonlighting, they haveside hustles and they're slowly
dipping their toes back andforth into full-time employment,
solopreneurism and freelancing.
So I think there's a fewfactors where we're actually
(03:43):
going to see it grow.
Even more than that, I think.
Obviously, as we saw techlayoffs, more and more people
were finally making the jump tobe solopreneurs or self-employed
and on the flip side of that,as companies were short-staffed,
they're going hey, we stillneed someone to do this work and
I have a hiring freeze, so whoam I going to hire?
Freelancers and contractors.
So there's a lot more of thishappening in the workforce,
(04:07):
especially in the currenteconomic climate.
Portia Mount (04:10):
I know this lifestyle intimately, so we all
do, yeah, we all do, we all madethis jump, which is, in some
ways, not as scary as it seemswhen you get into the other side
of the wall.
It's that you find that it'sactually there's, exactly as you
say, a ton of people who aredoing it, Eryn, and I'm curious
(04:33):
is full-time employment a thingof the past, where someone goes
to work for a company?
A young person comes out ofcollege and goes to work for a
company nine to five?
Are we seeing that the boomersare getting ready to?
They are retiring in massive,massive numbers.
Is full-time employment goingout the door with the boomers?
Eryn Peters (04:54):
You know.
It's interesting that you saythat, because I think full-time
employment is always going to bea thing when we think about the
numbers of hours that areworked, but in-house employment
is kind of phasing out to acertain extent.
Biggest shift, I think, is morethe classification of work than
it is the amount of hours thatare being worked.
So are we seeing moreshort-term projects that might
(05:17):
be full-time, or things thathave discrete deliverables and
project-based type of workrather than being you're coming
in to be this one specific rolefor the duration of your time at
this company.
That, I think, is going to bemore of a thing of the past.
So this trend is called theskillification of work, and so I
think roles are fundamentallybroken.
(05:38):
By the time you read a jobdescription, it's usually at a
date it's not really accurate,or you start the job and you
realize that's not what I signedup for and then you're stuck in
this role with probably aregulated pay raise schedule and
you know it doesn't really workLike in-house, full-time,
role-based employment is kind ofa thing of the past, I think.
(05:58):
But if we start thinking aboutthe skillification of work,
freedom of internal mobilitywithin companies, if you're
going to go that route andreally just creating like
internal and external talentpools where, if you like
someone's work and they're goodat what they do, they can work
on many different teams andprojects rather than being kind
of pigeonholed into one specificarea.
So full-time yes, in-housemaybe not.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (06:21):
It sounds like the other side of I know.
During the pandemic there was alot of conversation in popular
media and influencer communitiesand thought channels around the
great resignation and now itfeels like what you're
describing is tied to the greatbetrayal.
Can?
You talk a little bit aboutthat, because I know you talk a
(06:42):
ton in your newsletter and inyour content about it and I
think our listeners need tounderstand what that really
needs for employees.
Portia Mount (06:48):
It sounds so dramatic too when you say the
great beat trail Like ooh, andyou know I love gossip too.
So like I'm leaning yes, Eryn,you and I share this, that we
love todry gossip.
Eryn Peters (07:00):
We learned this in another conversation that we
love Give me all the reality TVand still the TV.
We love it, we love all the.
Portia Mount (07:07):
We love the.
We love the trash.
So tell us about the greatbetrayal.
Eryn Peters (07:12):
Yeah, I'm glad that you kind of mentioned it in
hand with the great resignationtoo, because really what it is
is that it is kind of thisdramatic telenovela of the power
balance and battle betweenworkers and companies.
And with the great resignationwe saw a lot of people who were
going like I'm better than this,I can do better than you, I
quit, right, and they'rebasically going.
(07:34):
You know, I hold all of thekeys to the kingdom.
And the great betrayal, I think, was the other side of that.
People who didn't quit andresign, or didn't quite quit,
they're going whoa, whoa, whoa.
You said I was good here, yousaid I had a job.
So I think the reason it's abetrayal is because, like,
there's two sets of contractswhen it comes to employment.
(07:56):
One is like that physicalcontract that you sign that says
you're going to work for methis many hours and I'm going to
pay you this many dollars,right, like we've all signed
these contracts.
But these social contracts thatare kind of unspoken and
implied are the ones that Ithink carry the most emotions
for workers.
So if you have a boss thatnever takes time off, it doesn't
(08:17):
mean you don't have a writtenvacation policy, but you might
second guess how much vacationyou're going to take.
That's a social contract.
That's almost like anexpectation based on behaviors
and when we start thinking about, like all of these people that
were going, hey, we describe ourteam as a family.
Our culture is like so tight init like this and then they were
dropped, like that.
Portia Mount (08:39):
And they were just triggered in the layoffs.
Well, some people drop kickedtheir families, but not really
Right.
Eryn Peters (08:48):
But they're kind of going.
So I have to behave in a waythat makes me prioritize this
company and everyone around me,you get to be taken away, where
my needs are not prioritizedsometimes and people are going.
I worked extra hours in thepandemic, I work on the weekends
, I miss my kids birthday andhere you go, treating like this.
So betrayal is a strong wordbecause these are such strong
(09:09):
emotions that people have beenfeeling, they're realizing that
they are replaceable.
They do become second and thirdpriority, when they were
constantly conditioned to saythat work in this team is your
number one priority.
So I think it's strong languagebecause it is.
It needs to be.
Portia Mount (09:24):
Yeah, for sure, and I think the way you unpack
that, Eryn, is so importantbecause, you know, I want to
kind of pull on another littlethread.
One of the things I havenoticed is companies are hiring
incredibly wonderful young,talented people, and those
talented people have sidehustles.
Maybe side hustles they've beenrunning for three or four years
(09:47):
.
Actually, they're not even.
We shouldn't even call themside hustles.
They are running businesses.
They are, so they are multihyphenants.
Right, we're seeing youngpeople come out of college.
They can see this even morewith Jen Alpha.
They are multi hyphenants, theyhave portfolio careers and so
companies snap them up, say, oh,you're great, this is going to
be, you're going to have thisgreat career here.
(10:07):
And then they're like wait aminute, you have a side business
, you have a, you have a socialmedia following, you have a
newsletter with 100,000followers, you've got a YouTube
channel that you're monetized.
Eryn Peters (10:21):
Oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you can't, you can't do
that, but isn't it so funny howthose are all things that a
potential employer would look atand are reasons they would hire
you, but the moment that youstart working for them are
reasons why you're notdedicating 100% of your job.
Portia Mount (10:35):
Yeah, and I'm just like I can't make sense of it.
But it's.
But you know, but it gets backto this kind of it's like all
the things that made youappealing as an as an employee.
You come inside and all of asudden they're like no, no, no,
we don't want you to do.
All the things that made youattractive potential employee
(10:55):
are the things that we want youto stop doing.
And I think and I'm seeing somany people say you know what?
I do not need this shit.
Like I am out.
I don't know if you have aperspective on that and let's
say, because we're kind of,we're talking to employ, we're
talking to leaders here who arehiring these people, like, what
do you like?
This is, this is a crisis here.
(11:16):
If you want to keep talentedpeople's, what are you telling
leaders right now?
Eryn Peters (11:20):
Yeah, totally Well.
I mean I have a ton of thoughtsand feelings on this.
Obviously I have a lot ofopinions, otherwise you wouldn't
have me here.
I think that's an interestingGood.
Portia Mount (11:29):
Thoughts and feelings with data are also good
, but also just thoughts andfeelings.
We yeah, you can.
You can also rage.
If you want to just rage for afew minutes, you can do that too
, I'm sure I will.
Eryn Peters (11:40):
But.
But you know it's people whoare diversifying their
employment.
I think is also a symptom ofthe great betrayal.
So there's a really great statthat it came out last year was
surveys done by a team.
They concluded that 62% ofknowledge workers do not trust
100% of their income coming fromone source anymore, and so I
think we're all going oh okay,my eggs really can't be on this
(12:03):
basket, so I probably shouldmaintain my newsletter, probably
should have a few irons in thefire just in case, because you
don't know really what's goingto happen and you want to
maintain a personal brand orbusiness in that way.
And how are leaders going torespond to this and what can
they do?
I think part of it is justbeing human, like realistically.
Leaders at companies areprobably also doing some of
(12:23):
these things.
They are advising othercompanies, they are doing other
things and I think embracing itis going to be an important part
of going.
Hey, by people doing this,they're learning other skills
that they can kind of bring thatknowledge and share within the
company for performance, and Ithink, in addition to kind of
embracing it, having a healthydose of realism is also good.
(12:43):
One of my favorite examples ofcompanies that do this really
well is LinkedIn.
So when you go to onboarding,when you start at LinkedIn in
your onboarding, they basicallygo when you leave here and work
somewhere else and then when youcome back and then teach us
what you learned, they'retelling you in your first days
on the job that they expect youto leave and they also expect
you to come back someday,because the door is always open
(13:04):
if you're good at what you do.
So, like boomerang rates andhiring, I think is a more
realistic way than looking atthings like forcing retention,
because in reality, nobody ownstalent.
That is a kind of viewing ofthe past is like I own you, I
pay you or I have goldenhandcuffs on you, you're mine,
(13:25):
and in reality we're all freewills, people that can go and
work wherever we want.
Especially smart people haveoptions.
So what are you doing to staytheir number one option and how
are you giving them freedom andflexibility to work in the ways
that they need to to developskills that they're then going
to want to kind of put intotheir work where you are?
So leaders need to be bothembracing of this change and
(13:48):
really realistic to kind of theworkforce that we're working in.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (13:52):
I love this, Eryn.
I mean, really, what you'recracking into is the concept of
employee value proposition.
Why should someone share theirtalents with a company?
And what really resonates withme in all that you're sharing is
that leaders of companies aredoing these things, and so
there's also this underpinningof a caste system of who gets to
(14:14):
do things outside of their nineto five.
I have a lot of thoughts andfeelings about that, yeah,
especially when you think aboutthis forced return to work
situation on this side of thepandemic and how we're still
talking about this right.
And so we went from theboomerang out to a ton of
(14:34):
knowledge.
Workers had the luxury of beingfully remote, even if they
hadn't been remote before, to asliding scale of hybrid by
choice, depending on what you doto.
Now it feels like everyone'sbeen flung back into these
really dusty office buildings.
So I'm just curious do youthink that the concept of hybrid
or remote work will become moreof a privilege, or become more
(14:59):
of a right than a privilege,rather, for those that are not
in the executive level of anorganization?
Eryn Peters (15:05):
Yeah, it's a really , really important question and
in reality, like the surveysthat we're seeing, is that more
managers actually want to workremotely than the employees,
which is kind of interesting,right.
So we're seeing more of thesetop line managers that want to
do that.
Different organizations aregoing to behave differently as
well.
So if you have a remote nativeorganization, they're definitely
(15:26):
not calling people back to theoffice and in fact I'm have one
but those who have kind oftransitioned back and forth are
really struggling.
I do think that hybrid is oneof the hardest workforces to
crack.
You need to have the bestpractices of both worlds.
So I do think that it's goingto be a bit of a continued
challenge in that way.
But I actually want to kind ofget back to something that you
(15:47):
said about past system, becauseI do think that this world in
the future of work is still notbuilt equally, and when we start
talking about women in theworkplace or people who have
more responsibility at home,like they are the ones who are
being hit the hardest by callsback to the office and also just
different ways that they'rebeing supported.
So if we talk a little bit aboutclassification, for example,
(16:09):
which we touched on earlier inthis conversation.
It's not about being full timeor part time.
It's about being classified asan employee or being classified
as a contractor, and so, ofcourse, I'm a big promoter of
everybody be solopreneur,everybody go be a contractor.
It's great, but in reality,there's a downside to that.
So workers protections also goout the window unless you're an
(16:30):
employee, and this is somethingthat we need to work on with
governments and companies tochange.
But one of those things is youknow, if you are an employee,
you get paid time off, you getunemployment insurance, you get
healthcare contributions andalso other perks and benefits,
and so when we start thinkingabout the fact that women take
(16:50):
on merber at home we saw in thepandemic and with remote work,
this was exacerbated in wayswe've never seen before then
childcare and all this is justhitting the hardest, and so
recent studies actually showedthat 52% of mothers are
considering leaving theworkforce because of inadequate
childcare and support.
That's insane, like that's anunacceptable rate.
(17:11):
So if we're talking abouthybrid and in remote and in the
house, like all of thesedifferent things of where you
work and how you're classifiedare impacting different groups
of people differently, and we'reeven seeing that remote workers
get promoted less.
That's a new study that justcame out last week.
So all of these differentfactors, it becomes a really
overwhelming environment for anyof us to go.
(17:32):
Okay, should I just go to theoffice today or not?
Because if it means having topay extra, should I get
childcare for my child's, or youknow, I get to stay at home,
but I'm not going to getpromoted.
Like what am I going to choose?
So these are just terrifyingtimes for workers.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (17:46):
And then you also add forced happy hours
and other performance Forced funis the worst Just so that you
can be seen to maybe besponsored inside of an
organization.
Portia Mount (17:58):
Just shoot me now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (18:00):
Just shoot me.
Portia Mount (18:01):
Now I have to find the New York Times article
about the company that like tomake their office more fun, like
, painted the walls brightcolors and added like all like
snack bars, and they were tryingto make it more home like.
And I was literally like WT, Ithink first of all the article
(18:21):
was dragged for the company wasdragged for filth, for doing it
Deserve it least as they shouldhave been WTF, wtf.
But the other piece that justkills me is people are going
back to off, to being draggedback to the office, and then
they are still doing Zoomconferences in their individual
(18:43):
offices, like they're actuallynot getting together more
because they're just in theoffice.
They were alone together,basically, and I suspect, if you
really really probe thesecompanies, there's a lot of
alone togetherness inside ofthese office buildings.
But a couple of things, so onea comment, and then a question
(19:05):
for you.
One is we're not talking aboutthe massive amounts of empty
office space I think in theUnited States alone, four
million square feet ofunoccupied office space and I
believe what's driving some ofthis is the fact that you've got
these really long-term leasesthat these companies cannot get
out of, and so you've got yourCEOs and CEOs gnashing their
(19:30):
teeth every month looking at thefact that their building is
basically mothballed and theycan't get out of these leases.
So the smart companies aregetting out of their leases and
being much more thoughtful aboutwhere they put locations.
The question for you, though,Eryn, that makes me think about
this is the change managementaround all of this.
I know this is a passion and anexpertise of yours, and I don't
(19:53):
think we are talking enoughabout the behavior and
managerial changes, operationalchanges, that leaders need to
embrace to get us through thismoment.
So, just, I love yourperspective there because I feel
like it's the missing part ofthis whole conversation of
leaders need to behave, act andbehave differently, and we're
(20:16):
not creating that expectation atall, it seems.
Eryn Peters (20:19):
I am going to agree with you and disagree with you
actually, because I think, if welook at all of us in this kind
of studio or virtual studio, allof us are leaders and all of us
know that we need, we'll bebehaving differently, but that's
because we are very we'reenlightened women, though.
Yeah, but I think there's somuch content out there that
nowadays of how to be a goodmanager, how to be a good leader
, and as more millennials andGen Z come into leadership, they
(20:42):
really do care about humanexperience.
What I think is doing them adisservice is the media and this
is me putting on my tinfoil hatof everything that they're
writing is wrong, but I thinkthere's just a gap in content
and support.
All they're reading is theserandom articles about how remote
work is either super hot orit's super not.
(21:04):
And she has a horror story ofsomething that happened because
they weren't in an office, andreally what we need to do is
post best practices for peopleto actually learn.
There is a really.
I told you I was going to go ona rant at one point.
This one really grants my gears.
So last year there was a studythat was shared and it was
(21:25):
picked up by every tier onemedia that you possibly imagine.
Basically, the headline waswork from home employees are 18%
less productive than those thatare in the office.
And you're going wow, that's alot of dollars, right?
And if you actually click intothe report, it was conducted in
India and context matters.
So if you think about it,working from home in
(21:47):
multi-generational families isprobably not a great environment
to work.
These were workers that wererandomly selected to work from
home or in office.
They didn't have heads up orthe ability to set up different
places.
Working remotely, like workingnear home or in a co-working
space versus your own office, isalso very different.
So the research was flawed.
But that's not what the mediasaid.
(22:07):
They said it's less productive.
And then all the bandwagonjumpers that are anti-remote
work gone on board, includingone of the guys that has the
highest stakes in office rentalsin the world who said we know
it, we've been telling you, comeback and renew your leases.
And so I think we need to focusless on this kind of salacious
(22:28):
polarizing media on the topics,which is fear mongering and not
helpful to managers who, I trulythink, want to do a good job.
They wake up every day and theywant to be a good manager and
see results and have it all, andso we need to start teaching
people things like what's thedifference between making a
remote first and a remote OKenvironment?
Ok, what are the tactics thatwe can do with that?
What's the change management,as you said?
(22:50):
So a remote OK environment isif you want to take the
afternoon to work from home, gofor it.
But if we have a conference call, eight of us are going to be in
the actual conference call roomtalking to each other and
whispering and you're not goingto be able to hear it from your
home office and it's on the side.
Or if we're remote first andnot just remote OK, if one
person isn't in the conferenceroom, all of us take the call
(23:10):
from our individual computers,because it makes it a better
user experience for everybody inour company.
So we need these types of tipsthat are small, tactical and
actually make an impact topeople being able to collaborate
and work in changingenvironments.
We need to stop searmongeringand having so many articles
written all the time.
That's what we need to stop.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:31):
You say that about so many topics, Eryn.
Eryn Peters (23:33):
I know.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:34):
We really just need to bring critical
thinking back and wide scaleproblem solving.
Eryn Peters (23:41):
My tinfoil hat at the shop is going to open on the
weekend.
I'll be your first subscriber.
Portia Mount (23:47):
We will post the link.
Send me the link later.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:50):
Everybody will post the link.
I love it.
Oh, but you're so right, andit's interesting because, as
you're kind of talking, Eryn,I'm thinking so much about Gen Z
and the little baby gen alphasand what a wild ride they're
going to have with all that'sswirling around right now.
Eryn Peters (24:12):
But I also love them.
Gen Z coming into the workforcethey get no leaps.
I don't know if I'm allowed toswear on this podcast.
I'm monitoring myself.
Portia Mount (24:20):
You can totally swear.
No, you can't.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (24:22):
You can swear on this.
Portia Mount (24:25):
There haven't been a lot of F-bombs lately, but
we've had them in the past, youcan swear.
Eryn Peters (24:30):
I've even strategically cropped out my get
shit done, sign behind me, justfor this oh, you have to do
that, we have to do that.
You should have brought it back.
We're all about getting shitdone.
Yeah, good, good, but yeah.
But I love them because they'reso funny, gen Z, they care
about such big hair problems inthe world that they also have a
really obscure sense of humorand the way that they approach
(24:53):
things.
And I'm really loving thisfresh new perspective that we
have coming into the workforce,where people are just not afraid
to call each other on theirshit, not afraid to bring in
external resources and just dothings totally differently.
Social norms aren't really athing for them and I'm like,
yeah, let's break it, it's notworking anyways.
Portia Mount (25:11):
It's so true, and you only have to go to Instagram
to see some of the ways theymeme their leaders.
And I'm just, I just wantleaders, especially if you are
Gen X, like me.
I don't think they have anyidea of how much we are being
made fun of for how we like GenX, be like Gen Z, be like Jim,
(25:38):
millennials, be like.
It's just so funny, but also itcuts deep because you realize
they really do think about workvery differently, even things
like PTO and one of my previouscompanies.
A gentleman had retired.
(25:58):
He'd been in the company for,let's say, 45 years and the one
thing that he touted in hisgoing away was that he had only
missed one day of work.
And yeah, exactly, just to lookat your faces.
Everybody was like, oh my god,I'm coming, I'm coming Right,
(26:19):
like who would like in 2024 andthe year of Beyonce's internet,
who would ever, ever like toutthat as an accomplishment?
But it just shows you thedifference in just how
especially Gen Z thinks abouttheir work.
(26:41):
And, by the way, good for them,because, back to the point of
our earlier conversation, thesocial contract has changed and
so we have to behave differently.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:53):
Eryn.
So for listeners who arethinking about pivoting away
from a full-time role andthinking about becoming a
full-time solopreneur orfreelancer, what are three to
five things people need to thinkabout if they're thinking about
making that switch?
Eryn Peters (27:08):
I think first is really just doing some soft
reflection I know that sounds alittle boo-boo, but truly figure
out what you enjoy doing andfind the intersection between
that and what you're good at.
This is going to develop yourniche of your offerings.
I think knowing exactly whatyou want to do and how you want
to do it is helpful, becauseotherwise there's just an
(27:29):
overwhelming amount of jobs thatyou can do on a freelance basis
or even remotely.
Just think about what you wantto do.
That's the big one.
I think the other is reallythinking about your risk
tolerance.
We talked about it earlier too.
Of a lot of people think thatthis is very binary.
You're either an employee oryou're a freelancer.
But all of us have the lifesituation or working situation
(27:51):
where I can just quit my job andhope my business starts up
making money tomorrow.
I think that we need to go.
Okay, what's my runway?
Do I want to trickle my way inby doing some moonlighting or
side hustles or starting abusiness quietly in my own hours
like a Saturday solopreneur?
Think about how much timeyou're willing to invest and how
(28:13):
much capital you're willing toput at risk, because starting a
business not only is money,depending on if you're selling
goods or anything else, but it'sopportunity cost of money you
could be making elsewhere and inhouse employment.
It's a really importantconversation to have with
yourself and with any of yourdependents or people within your
family or circle.
Then from there, I see, startgoing through it.
(28:35):
You can find your own customersin so many different ways,
whether you're advertising orthe power of social media, as we
talked about.
But there's literally aplatform for everything.
You can do gigs to X and answercustomer queries on platforms
like limitless.
Or you can learn softwaredevelopment skills and work with
Top Child or Turing or Indellaor all the blue companies that
(28:57):
are out there.
You can go to market or hire ifyou want to share some of your
marketing skills or Upwork orFiverr or Freelancercom that
have any skill under the sun.
You don't have to go fully soloand develop your whole book of
business.
You can hop on these sites andsee lots of companies that are
looking for those skills and gethired, and there's some for
lawyers and everything.
Truly, open your mind and startlooking for a talent platform
(29:19):
or a talent marketplace forinsert skill set here.
I think those are the threethings it's going.
What do I like and what am Igood at?
As the first one, what is myrisk tolerance and how much do I
want to go online or not?
Right now, where can I startgenerating some leads, whether
it's immediately, very quickly,through my network, through
social media, or finding aplatform that suits you and
(29:40):
already has a bit of a usergrace there, nice.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (29:44):
I love this.
Know yourself first of all.
Eryn Peters (29:47):
First and foremost, know yourself.
It was everything you do yes.
Portia Mount (29:51):
Yes, and so, Eryn, for the folks who are, they
decided they do want to work fora company and I'm going back to
a piece that you know earlierpart of our conversation and
let's say they have a very welldeveloped side business, and how
would you advise them as theirjob searching, how to talk to
(30:15):
their employers?
Because, again, I feel likethis is an area that you know.
Of course, you see a lot ofdramatic exits that then people
share on LinkedIn and then shareon Instagram.
But, you know, I think there'san opportunity for companies to
keep really talented people whoalso have, who are developing
skills in these side ventures.
(30:36):
So how would you advise someonewho is looking for a full-time
job and they have a very robustside business?
How would you advise them totalk to their potential employer
so that it's really clear thatthey intend to keep that
business and to help explain tothe employer why they're doing
it?
So we can, you know, maybeavoid people companies losing
(31:00):
really talented people justbecause someone's got to decide
a side business, side hustle.
Eryn Peters (31:04):
Absolutely.
I mean there's a couplemindsets about it.
I always think honesty is thebest policy, especially if you
don't really have a relationshipwith this company yet.
So be transparent about it andask them upfront do you have a
moonlighting policy?
A lot of companies actuallywrite it in their contracts now,
saying you are not allowed towork for anybody else, even your
own business, outside of this,because a lot of companies think
(31:26):
that they're protecting yourwell-being by going.
Nobody can spend more than 40hours a week at work and so
you're going to spend those 40hours with us.
So make sure you check thatlegally, this isn't going to be
an issue for you, and beforthcoming about the fact that
you have these other things andI think part of it is how they
respond is also a really goodbarometer for whether or not you
really want to work there.
Like, did they immediately getcagey about it?
(31:46):
Were they realistic?
Like, is this the type ofperson that you're going to want
to work with anyways?
Maybe or maybe not.
You already are workingsomewhere and you want to either
start or restart or maintain aside business or a side hustle
in a different way.
The r slash over employedReddit community has over
200,000 people in it.
There's a lot of people who areworking two, three, five
(32:07):
full-time jobs under the radarnow.
Portia Mount (32:09):
Oh my God, who are these people?
And I'm sure you can find a lotof tips and tricks.
Eryn Peters (32:12):
What?
That's not me that could not beme.
What A lot of people don'tfigure out automation, AI
leveraging and revolver.
No, yeah, they've got good tipstoo, but you know, what Part of
it is also going like hey, again, roles are really broken.
They're like I'm going to finda role that's middle of the pack
, and probably not leadership ormanagement, and I'm just going
(32:34):
to do an okay job at all of them.
And if I do an okay job at allof them, that's about 100% of a
full-time job.
So you know, this is how peopleare gaming the system.
I myself can't ever advocate forpeople to break the law, but if
you want to check out tipsthere's a lot of people about
community.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (32:53):
You don't want to touch that one, Eryn,
it's like we are not endorsingover-employed Reddit.
Portia Mount (33:01):
but you know, caveat, m-tor, oh no.
Eryn Peters (33:04):
I mean I always endorse over-employments for
those who are voluntarilyover-employed.
I never endorse people doing itwhere it's like potentially
deceitful or illegal.
Portia Mount (33:12):
I'll go that far, but like if you want to work
multiple jobs, you do it, youbuild your empire.
That is stuff, and a lot oftimes it's also about multiple.
You know, back to your earlierpoint, it's about de-risking
your income, diversifying and Ithink this again and
diversifying your income andhaving multiple income streams.
And again, what I hope leaders,hiring managers are hearing is
(33:35):
like is asking themselves am Ipaying people what they're worth
?
Am I creating financial, theright kinds of financial
incentives to keep my mosttalented people?
And I think that's when peopleare feeling well compensated.
There's, I would imagine,there's less desire to do that.
But again, the mindset is verydifferent, though.
(33:56):
Right People?
Eryn Peters (33:57):
are.
Yeah, it's compensation is aninteresting one because I
there's golden handcuffs as aterm right.
I can't leave, submitting paidso much but I'd like to leave,
and so I think valued is theright word here.
If I feel valued whether that'sthrough the form of monetary
compensation, the way that I'mtreated at work, you know all
these other things like, if Istill valued, yeah, I'm probably
a lot more likely to be areally good employee.
(34:18):
But compensation is sometimes adouble-edged sword.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (34:22):
I also think you know people may feel
really valid in their role andjust have other interests.
You know, I think this ideathat your, your job is your
beginning and end and where youshould find happiness or
fulfillment is so dated.
It's an outdated idea, so evenif you are valued, highly
compensated, doing a great job,it's, you know, back to that
(34:45):
caste system idea.
Why is it okay for some peopleto have other interests or
upskill or, frankly, buildwealth, and it's not okay for
other people to do it?
Eryn Peters (34:56):
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Portia Mount (34:59):
So, Eryn, this, this is our favorite part of the
pod.
It's the lightning round.
Tiffany, take us in.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (35:08):
All right, so we'll have just a few
questions.
Don't overthink it.
We'll ask you whatever comes tomind.
So the first question is whatis your favorite motto or phrase
that defines your mindset?
Oh, interesting.
Eryn Peters (35:21):
I mean, I don't know if there's a favorite one,
but one that I kind of comeacross recently that really
stuck with me is let go or bedragged, and that I was going.
You know, I have some we'retalking about self reflection I
got some things I'm working onand you know, I have things
cester sometimes or I thinkabout it, and so I'm like, yeah,
you know, I really do need tolet go because I am dragging
myself.
Portia Mount (35:42):
That's good, I needed that today I needed to
hear like it kind of hit.
Did you notice, Tiffany, howthat hit when you were like, oh
yeah, because I'm gettingdragged on some things.
So okay, thank you, Eryn'skicking some wisdom down the us.
Yeah, of course.
So you're accepting a hugeaward.
What's your walk on song?
Eryn Peters (36:01):
Oh gosh, see, I'm so bad with music and names of
songs, but I would either dosomething really ironic like
Rick, for all everybody in theaudience, or like really cheesy
classic like I have the tiger,just like classic.
Portia Mount (36:18):
That is a classic, it is a classic.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:23):
Okay, what is one book that you find
yourself recommending or giftingoften?
Eryn Peters (36:29):
Oh yeah, I mean I have two that I probably
recommend all the time.
Actually, portion is that oneof them?
I have a lot of friends thatare single and I also work in a
matchmaking industry, so youknow talent platforms is
matchmaking.
So I recommend the book how toNot Die Alone by Logan Urie.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:46):
I love that.
Eryn Peters (36:48):
Ready Miss Down.
Portia Mount (36:49):
It's a savage title, but it is full of good
tips, Because the dating streetsapparently across the globe are
I'm married, but the datingstreets across the globe are
trash.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:59):
Yes, it's so bad the dating streets are
trash.
Eryn Peters (37:01):
It's not anyone.
It's horrible but it's reallyinteresting.
It really forces you again toself reflect but give some
tactical tips on how to go aboutit.
As someone who works withdifferent technology matching
algorithms.
She also goes deep into howtechnology is affecting the way
that we find matches andpartners which, if you are in
the staffing industry ormatchmaking in any way shape or
(37:21):
form, maybe it's alsointeresting for you.
But the other book I alwaysrecommend is a lot of people I
talk to are in major careermoments or inflections.
They're not sure what to do,and I love the book the
Alchemist, so like finding yourpurpose and like taking science
from the universe of what'sworking and what's not, and it's
really cute read.
So those are kind of my top twothat I always pull out from the
(37:42):
buck shelf behind me.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (37:44):
Yes.
Portia Mount (37:44):
I love those, I love that.
So what's the best purchaseunder $150?
Now, I know you're working inpounds now so you'll have to do
the translate, but under $150that you've made, I mean like my
dog is the most obvious one.
Eryn Peters (38:03):
But I mean other than that, like probably my
monitor.
Like I was a digital nomad forfive years and worked only on my
laptop and in hindsight I don'tknow how I did it because I'm
quite tall.
So having an actual externalmonitor that I can set up
straight while I'm working hasbeen a real game changer for my
back.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:19):
Yeah, Okay , Eryn.
What is a secret unpopularopinion that you hold?
This is my favorite question.
Eryn Peters (38:26):
In addition, in addition to hating the media, no
, I think one that is alwayslike triggers a lot of people, I
think is like I really don'tthink that MBAs are worth
anything.
I think, like tons of moneywhere you're basically buying a
(38:46):
network.
I think that it's reallymeaningless and by the time you
actually go through thelearnings from an MBA program,
it's already out of date in themodern business world when it
comes to like internationalworking or like marketing trends
.
So I actually think that yourmoney is better spent starting a
business and like, even if youfail, you're probably going to
learn more than you will in anMBA.
(39:07):
All right, that is a hot take,Eryn, and this is coming from
someone who's spoken at a veryprestigious MBA business school
with him last year as well.
Portia Mount (39:16):
So don't tell me what I will not.
Well, as someone who has an MBA, and I will tell you who got it
more than 10 years ago, there'snothing that we did it learned
in market and marketing that isrelevant today Absolutely
nothing.
So I will I do.
I agree with you, Eryn, thatthe value proposition for the
MBA has just really, reallychanged.
(39:36):
And I think I get asked all thetime should I get an MBA?
And I will tell you a lot oftimes I tell people don't even
bother, you know what I mean.
Like take a course, get acertification but, don't.
don't spend a ton of moneyunless someone's going to you
get into Harvard and someone'sgoing to pay you to send you
there, and even then you knowjust like just it may not be
worth it.
So I love that point.
Eryn Peters (39:57):
I know you're buying the network.
It's not about the coursematerials, right Like it's about
the net.
Portia Mount (40:01):
Exactly, Exactly.
So our last question for youtoday is what's a hobby you have
that would surprise people whoknow you?
Eryn Peters (40:12):
I would like to think that I'm a fairly
multifaceted person, but I thinkone that surprises people is
because I live in such a digitalworld.
I actually crocheted like a lotof hobbies have been 80 year
old women, but that's probablyone that surprises people more.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (40:29):
I love this.
My daughter.
She's seven but she crochetsand it's very into it.
It's a whole thing.
Eryn Peters (40:35):
Yeah, oh my gosh, we'd be besties.
Portia Mount (40:39):
I you know what I love.
That kind of it's part of thatslow lifestyle.
It's like I do canning and Ilike and it's like a old school
hobby.
People are like you like withthe boiling, with the boiling
water and the jars, and so Ilove that you've got this kind
of slow hobby where you use yourhands and everything.
What's, what's something thatyou've made that you're really
proud of?
Eryn Peters (40:59):
I should make all kinds of stuff.
I think the strangest thingI've ever made was I was
commissioned to crochet asweater for a chicken that had
lost all of its feathers.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:10):
Oh, my goodness what.
I have so many questions.
What's happened to theirfeathers?
Eryn Peters (41:16):
I have so many questions Like what's happened
to their feathers?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:19):
There's a marketplace for this.
And what?
What happened to their feathers?
Eryn Peters (41:23):
Oh, it's attacked my daughter.
It's quite sad, but it was nolonger cold because it had a
sweater done by Aaron Peters.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:30):
This is top tier content.
Eryn Peters (41:32):
This is the second Etsy shop that you need to open.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:34):
Eryn, I don't know, chicken sweaters,
sweaters for featherlesschickens.
Portia Mount (41:40):
This is amazing.
We cannot talk.
I don't know who is going totop this Tiffany.
Nobody can you and.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:47):
Aaron, can I just say you, are an icon,
and for that answer alone.
Portia Mount (41:53):
I am so you kick down so much knowledge today,
but let me tell you this was theicing on the cake.
I don't know how we can evertop this.
And also, I will not be able tostop thinking about a chicken
running around with a bespokesweater.
Eryn Peters (42:13):
Yeah, yeah, it was a very happy chicken in the end.
Portia Mount (42:16):
I am sure.
Aaron Peters, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
It has been such a delight, andwe hope that people go out and
find you on LinkedIn as well assign up for your newsletter.
Give a quick overview of whatyour newsletter is about, too,
so people can make sure thatthey do sign up for it.
Eryn Peters (42:36):
Absolutely.
I mean it's weeklyworkforcecom.
I write about anything to dowith the future of work, whether
it's remote working, digitalnomadism, freelancing and
contracting, like we talkedabout today, new laws and
legislation.
It all sounds very dry andboring, but I'm also love a good
meme, love throwing in my owntwo cents on things.
So if you liked my tone andkind of voice and opinions I had
(42:59):
in this call, it's just more ofthat and it's in your inbox
every week.
I love it, by the way.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (43:04):
I love you .
Portia Mount (43:07):
And thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to theManifesta podcast.
Our sound designer and audioengineer is Nina Pollak of Nina
Pollak Sound.
Our social media manager isdestiny.
I have a question, comment ortopic for our next episode?
Email us at themanifesta atgmailcom.
(43:30):
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
podcast, spotify or wherever youlisten to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
And don't forget to follow uson Instagram at themanifesta,
and TikTok at themanifestapod.
See you next time.
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a
career and lifestyle podcastfor aspiring women.
I'm Portia Mount.
Join me and my co-host, TiffanyWaddell-Tate, this season on
our mission to help women findtheir purpose, lead high-impact
careers, and live fulfillingpersonal lives by sharing the
stories of women who've carvedtheir own path to success.
(00:23):
The future is female.
Let's get started.
Hello squad, our guest today isEryn Peters.
Eryn is a future of workevangelist, retired digital
digital nomad and scale-upbuilder.
She is the founder of StartupConsortium, a boutique agency,
(00:44):
the editor of Weekly Workforceand the global director of the
Association of the Future ofWork.
Before founding startupconsortium, she built two
unicorns in the staffingindustry where saw firsthand the
challenges that tech companiesand workers go through worldwide
.
She has dedicated her career toexploring the high performing
teams of global knowledgefast-paced in environments.
(01:05):
Her work in freelance andplatform economies has impacted
over three million workers in190 plus countries.
You can find Eryn on LinkedInand be sure to subscribe to her
amazing newsletter, weeklyworkforce, at wwwweeklyworkforce
.
com.
As always, you can find theselinks in the show notes.
(01:26):
Eryn, a welcome to you, the pod.
Eryn Peters (01:29):
Thank you for having me.
It's nice to be here, so, Erynlet's just jump in here.
Portia Mount (01:34):
But first off, where does this podcast find you
?
Eryn Peters (01:37):
I'm in my home office in London in the UK.
Portia Mount (01:43):
Wonderful, and I think you're our first
international guest, so I'mreally excited about that.
Eryn Peters (01:48):
So you know, yeah, so yeah.
Portia Mount (01:51):
So, Eryn, we've been talking I feel like we've
been talking about the future ofwork forever.
The future is here, it'sactually happening, but where do
you think we actually stand asfar as the future of work goes?
Like, what does it really meanfor the average professional?
Eryn Peters (02:09):
Yeah, you know, for the average person it probably
sounds like this futurist mumbojumbo, but in reality, it's just
about keeping up with trends.
If you think about it, 30% ofour life is happening in the
workplace, so you might as wellstay on top of what's happening
around you because, quitefrankly, there's a lot of
opportunities to accelerate yourcareer or growth opportunities,
(02:30):
and you can either be proactivewith change or be blindsided by
it.
So I think the average personreally should stay on top of
some of these trends, becausethere's just a lot of chances
that you can take advantage ofit.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (02:43):
Eryn, when you talk about the average
person staying on top of trendsfor those that might not be
paying fully in tune with what'shappening, can you get a quick
primer on the size of thefreelance industry and why it's
continuing to grow and why thatmatters?
Eryn Peters (02:59):
Absolutely.
You know, I think it's a lotbigger than people think.
So 38% of the US workforceperformed freelance work in 2023
, and it was accounting forabout $1.27 trillion in the US
which is wild, that is wild,that is absolutely wild, yeah.
So a lot of people just don'tthink that it's this popular or
(03:21):
mainstream.
But if you think about it,people are going.
Oh, it's kind of black andwhite You're either an employee
or a freelancer and what we'reseeing is this trend of more and
more people doing both.
They're moonlighting, they haveside hustles and they're slowly
dipping their toes back andforth into full-time employment,
solopreneurism and freelancing.
So I think there's a fewfactors where we're actually
(03:43):
going to see it grow.
Even more than that, I think.
Obviously, as we saw techlayoffs, more and more people
were finally making the jump tobe solopreneurs or self-employed
and on the flip side of that,as companies were short-staffed,
they're going hey, we stillneed someone to do this work and
I have a hiring freeze, so whoam I going to hire?
Freelancers and contractors.
So there's a lot more of thishappening in the workforce,
(04:07):
especially in the currenteconomic climate.
Portia Mount (04:10):
I know this lifestyle intimately, so we all
do, yeah, we all do, we all madethis jump, which is, in some
ways, not as scary as it seemswhen you get into the other side
of the wall.
It's that you find that it'sactually there's, exactly as you
say, a ton of people who aredoing it, Eryn, and I'm curious
(04:33):
is full-time employment a thingof the past, where someone goes
to work for a company?
A young person comes out ofcollege and goes to work for a
company nine to five?
Are we seeing that the boomersare getting ready to?
They are retiring in massive,massive numbers.
Is full-time employment goingout the door with the boomers?
Eryn Peters (04:54):
You know.
It's interesting that you saythat, because I think full-time
employment is always going to bea thing when we think about the
numbers of hours that areworked, but in-house employment
is kind of phasing out to acertain extent.
Biggest shift, I think, is morethe classification of work than
it is the amount of hours thatare being worked.
So are we seeing moreshort-term projects that might
(05:17):
be full-time, or things thathave discrete deliverables and
project-based type of workrather than being you're coming
in to be this one specific rolefor the duration of your time at
this company.
That, I think, is going to bemore of a thing of the past.
So this trend is called theskillification of work, and so I
think roles are fundamentallybroken.
(05:38):
By the time you read a jobdescription, it's usually at a
date it's not really accurate,or you start the job and you
realize that's not what I signedup for and then you're stuck in
this role with probably aregulated pay raise schedule and
you know it doesn't really workLike in-house, full-time,
role-based employment is kind ofa thing of the past, I think.
(05:58):
But if we start thinking aboutthe skillification of work,
freedom of internal mobilitywithin companies, if you're
going to go that route andreally just creating like
internal and external talentpools where, if you like
someone's work and they're goodat what they do, they can work
on many different teams andprojects rather than being kind
of pigeonholed into one specificarea.
So full-time yes, in-housemaybe not.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (06:21):
It sounds like the other side of I know.
During the pandemic there was alot of conversation in popular
media and influencer communitiesand thought channels around the
great resignation and now itfeels like what you're
describing is tied to the greatbetrayal.
Can?
You talk a little bit aboutthat, because I know you talk a
(06:42):
ton in your newsletter and inyour content about it and I
think our listeners need tounderstand what that really
needs for employees.
Portia Mount (06:48):
It sounds so dramatic too when you say the
great beat trail Like ooh, andyou know I love gossip too.
So like I'm leaning yes, Eryn,you and I share this, that we
love todry gossip.
Eryn Peters (07:00):
We learned this in another conversation that we
love Give me all the reality TVand still the TV.
We love it, we love all the.
Portia Mount (07:07):
We love the.
We love the trash.
So tell us about the greatbetrayal.
Eryn Peters (07:12):
Yeah, I'm glad that you kind of mentioned it in
hand with the great resignationtoo, because really what it is
is that it is kind of thisdramatic telenovela of the power
balance and battle betweenworkers and companies.
And with the great resignationwe saw a lot of people who were
going like I'm better than this,I can do better than you, I
quit, right, and they'rebasically going.
(07:34):
You know, I hold all of thekeys to the kingdom.
And the great betrayal, I think, was the other side of that.
People who didn't quit andresign, or didn't quite quit,
they're going whoa, whoa, whoa.
You said I was good here, yousaid I had a job.
So I think the reason it's abetrayal is because, like,
there's two sets of contractswhen it comes to employment.
(07:56):
One is like that physicalcontract that you sign that says
you're going to work for methis many hours and I'm going to
pay you this many dollars,right, like we've all signed
these contracts.
But these social contracts thatare kind of unspoken and
implied are the ones that Ithink carry the most emotions
for workers.
So if you have a boss thatnever takes time off, it doesn't
(08:17):
mean you don't have a writtenvacation policy, but you might
second guess how much vacationyou're going to take.
That's a social contract.
That's almost like anexpectation based on behaviors
and when we start thinking about, like all of these people that
were going, hey, we describe ourteam as a family.
Our culture is like so tight init like this and then they were
dropped, like that.
Portia Mount (08:39):
And they were just triggered in the layoffs.
Well, some people drop kickedtheir families, but not really
Right.
Eryn Peters (08:48):
But they're kind of going.
So I have to behave in a waythat makes me prioritize this
company and everyone around me,you get to be taken away, where
my needs are not prioritizedsometimes and people are going.
I worked extra hours in thepandemic, I work on the weekends
, I miss my kids birthday andhere you go, treating like this.
So betrayal is a strong wordbecause these are such strong
(09:09):
emotions that people have beenfeeling, they're realizing that
they are replaceable.
They do become second and thirdpriority, when they were
constantly conditioned to saythat work in this team is your
number one priority.
So I think it's strong languagebecause it is.
It needs to be.
Portia Mount (09:24):
Yeah, for sure, and I think the way you unpack
that, Eryn, is so importantbecause, you know, I want to
kind of pull on another littlethread.
One of the things I havenoticed is companies are hiring
incredibly wonderful young,talented people, and those
talented people have sidehustles.
Maybe side hustles they've beenrunning for three or four years
(09:47):
.
Actually, they're not even.
We shouldn't even call themside hustles.
They are running businesses.
They are, so they are multihyphenants.
Right, we're seeing youngpeople come out of college.
They can see this even morewith Jen Alpha.
They are multi hyphenants, theyhave portfolio careers and so
companies snap them up, say, oh,you're great, this is going to
be, you're going to have thisgreat career here.
(10:07):
And then they're like wait aminute, you have a side business
, you have a, you have a socialmedia following, you have a
newsletter with 100,000followers, you've got a YouTube
channel that you're monetized.
Eryn Peters (10:21):
Oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you can't, you can't do
that, but isn't it so funny howthose are all things that a
potential employer would look atand are reasons they would hire
you, but the moment that youstart working for them are
reasons why you're notdedicating 100% of your job.
Portia Mount (10:35):
Yeah, and I'm just like I can't make sense of it.
But it's.
But you know, but it gets backto this kind of it's like all
the things that made youappealing as an as an employee.
You come inside and all of asudden they're like no, no, no,
we don't want you to do.
All the things that made youattractive potential employee
(10:55):
are the things that we want youto stop doing.
And I think and I'm seeing somany people say you know what?
I do not need this shit.
Like I am out.
I don't know if you have aperspective on that and let's
say, because we're kind of,we're talking to employ, we're
talking to leaders here who arehiring these people, like, what
do you like?
This is, this is a crisis here.
(11:16):
If you want to keep talentedpeople's, what are you telling
leaders right now?
Eryn Peters (11:20):
Yeah, totally Well.
I mean I have a ton of thoughtsand feelings on this.
Obviously I have a lot ofopinions, otherwise you wouldn't
have me here.
I think that's an interestingGood.
Portia Mount (11:29):
Thoughts and feelings with data are also good
, but also just thoughts andfeelings.
We yeah, you can.
You can also rage.
If you want to just rage for afew minutes, you can do that too
, I'm sure I will.
Eryn Peters (11:40):
But.
But you know it's people whoare diversifying their
employment.
I think is also a symptom ofthe great betrayal.
So there's a really great statthat it came out last year was
surveys done by a team.
They concluded that 62% ofknowledge workers do not trust
100% of their income coming fromone source anymore, and so I
think we're all going oh okay,my eggs really can't be on this
(12:03):
basket, so I probably shouldmaintain my newsletter, probably
should have a few irons in thefire just in case, because you
don't know really what's goingto happen and you want to
maintain a personal brand orbusiness in that way.
And how are leaders going torespond to this and what can
they do?
I think part of it is justbeing human, like realistically.
Leaders at companies areprobably also doing some of
(12:23):
these things.
They are advising othercompanies, they are doing other
things and I think embracing itis going to be an important part
of going.
Hey, by people doing this,they're learning other skills
that they can kind of bring thatknowledge and share within the
company for performance, and Ithink, in addition to kind of
embracing it, having a healthydose of realism is also good.
(12:43):
One of my favorite examples ofcompanies that do this really
well is LinkedIn.
So when you go to onboarding,when you start at LinkedIn in
your onboarding, they basicallygo when you leave here and work
somewhere else and then when youcome back and then teach us
what you learned, they'retelling you in your first days
on the job that they expect youto leave and they also expect
you to come back someday,because the door is always open
(13:04):
if you're good at what you do.
So, like boomerang rates andhiring, I think is a more
realistic way than looking atthings like forcing retention,
because in reality, nobody ownstalent.
That is a kind of viewing ofthe past is like I own you, I
pay you or I have goldenhandcuffs on you, you're mine,
(13:25):
and in reality we're all freewills, people that can go and
work wherever we want.
Especially smart people haveoptions.
So what are you doing to staytheir number one option and how
are you giving them freedom andflexibility to work in the ways
that they need to to developskills that they're then going
to want to kind of put intotheir work where you are?
So leaders need to be bothembracing of this change and
(13:48):
really realistic to kind of theworkforce that we're working in.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (13:52):
I love this, Eryn.
I mean, really, what you'recracking into is the concept of
employee value proposition.
Why should someone share theirtalents with a company?
And what really resonates withme in all that you're sharing is
that leaders of companies aredoing these things, and so
there's also this underpinningof a caste system of who gets to
(14:14):
do things outside of their nineto five.
I have a lot of thoughts andfeelings about that, yeah,
especially when you think aboutthis forced return to work
situation on this side of thepandemic and how we're still
talking about this right.
And so we went from theboomerang out to a ton of
(14:34):
knowledge.
Workers had the luxury of beingfully remote, even if they
hadn't been remote before, to asliding scale of hybrid by
choice, depending on what you doto.
Now it feels like everyone'sbeen flung back into these
really dusty office buildings.
So I'm just curious do youthink that the concept of hybrid
or remote work will become moreof a privilege, or become more
(14:59):
of a right than a privilege,rather, for those that are not
in the executive level of anorganization?
Eryn Peters (15:05):
Yeah, it's a really , really important question and
in reality, like the surveysthat we're seeing, is that more
managers actually want to workremotely than the employees,
which is kind of interesting,right.
So we're seeing more of thesetop line managers that want to
do that.
Different organizations aregoing to behave differently as
well.
So if you have a remote nativeorganization, they're definitely
(15:26):
not calling people back to theoffice and in fact I'm have one
but those who have kind oftransitioned back and forth are
really struggling.
I do think that hybrid is oneof the hardest workforces to
crack.
You need to have the bestpractices of both worlds.
So I do think that it's goingto be a bit of a continued
challenge in that way.
But I actually want to kind ofget back to something that you
(15:47):
said about past system, becauseI do think that this world in
the future of work is still notbuilt equally, and when we start
talking about women in theworkplace or people who have
more responsibility at home,like they are the ones who are
being hit the hardest by callsback to the office and also just
different ways that they'rebeing supported.
So if we talk a little bit aboutclassification, for example,
(16:09):
which we touched on earlier inthis conversation.
It's not about being full timeor part time.
It's about being classified asan employee or being classified
as a contractor, and so, ofcourse, I'm a big promoter of
everybody be solopreneur,everybody go be a contractor.
It's great, but in reality,there's a downside to that.
So workers protections also goout the window unless you're an
(16:30):
employee, and this is somethingthat we need to work on with
governments and companies tochange.
But one of those things is youknow, if you are an employee,
you get paid time off, you getunemployment insurance, you get
healthcare contributions andalso other perks and benefits,
and so when we start thinkingabout the fact that women take
(16:50):
on merber at home we saw in thepandemic and with remote work,
this was exacerbated in wayswe've never seen before then
childcare and all this is justhitting the hardest, and so
recent studies actually showedthat 52% of mothers are
considering leaving theworkforce because of inadequate
childcare and support.
That's insane, like that's anunacceptable rate.
(17:11):
So if we're talking abouthybrid and in remote and in the
house, like all of thesedifferent things of where you
work and how you're classifiedare impacting different groups
of people differently, and we'reeven seeing that remote workers
get promoted less.
That's a new study that justcame out last week.
So all of these differentfactors, it becomes a really
overwhelming environment for anyof us to go.
(17:32):
Okay, should I just go to theoffice today or not?
Because if it means having topay extra, should I get
childcare for my child's, or youknow, I get to stay at home,
but I'm not going to getpromoted.
Like what am I going to choose?
So these are just terrifyingtimes for workers.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (17:46):
And then you also add forced happy hours
and other performance Forced funis the worst Just so that you
can be seen to maybe besponsored inside of an
organization.
Portia Mount (17:58):
Just shoot me now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (18:00):
Just shoot me.
Portia Mount (18:01):
Now I have to find the New York Times article
about the company that like tomake their office more fun, like
, painted the walls brightcolors and added like all like
snack bars, and they were tryingto make it more home like.
And I was literally like WT, Ithink first of all the article
(18:21):
was dragged for the company wasdragged for filth, for doing it
Deserve it least as they shouldhave been WTF, wtf.
But the other piece that justkills me is people are going
back to off, to being draggedback to the office, and then
they are still doing Zoomconferences in their individual
(18:43):
offices, like they're actuallynot getting together more
because they're just in theoffice.
They were alone together,basically, and I suspect, if you
really really probe thesecompanies, there's a lot of
alone togetherness inside ofthese office buildings.
But a couple of things, so onea comment, and then a question
(19:05):
for you.
One is we're not talking aboutthe massive amounts of empty
office space I think in theUnited States alone, four
million square feet ofunoccupied office space and I
believe what's driving some ofthis is the fact that you've got
these really long-term leasesthat these companies cannot get
out of, and so you've got yourCEOs and CEOs gnashing their
(19:30):
teeth every month looking at thefact that their building is
basically mothballed and theycan't get out of these leases.
So the smart companies aregetting out of their leases and
being much more thoughtful aboutwhere they put locations.
The question for you, though,Eryn, that makes me think about
this is the change managementaround all of this.
I know this is a passion and anexpertise of yours, and I don't
(19:53):
think we are talking enoughabout the behavior and
managerial changes, operationalchanges, that leaders need to
embrace to get us through thismoment.
So, just, I love yourperspective there because I feel
like it's the missing part ofthis whole conversation of
leaders need to behave, act andbehave differently, and we're
(20:16):
not creating that expectation atall, it seems.
Eryn Peters (20:19):
I am going to agree with you and disagree with you
actually, because I think, if welook at all of us in this kind
of studio or virtual studio, allof us are leaders and all of us
know that we need, we'll bebehaving differently, but that's
because we are very we'reenlightened women, though.
Yeah, but I think there's somuch content out there that
nowadays of how to be a goodmanager, how to be a good leader
, and as more millennials andGen Z come into leadership, they
(20:42):
really do care about humanexperience.
What I think is doing them adisservice is the media and this
is me putting on my tinfoil hatof everything that they're
writing is wrong, but I thinkthere's just a gap in content
and support.
All they're reading is theserandom articles about how remote
work is either super hot orit's super not.
(21:04):
And she has a horror story ofsomething that happened because
they weren't in an office, andreally what we need to do is
post best practices for peopleto actually learn.
There is a really.
I told you I was going to go ona rant at one point.
This one really grants my gears.
So last year there was a studythat was shared and it was
(21:25):
picked up by every tier onemedia that you possibly imagine.
Basically, the headline waswork from home employees are 18%
less productive than those thatare in the office.
And you're going wow, that's alot of dollars, right?
And if you actually click intothe report, it was conducted in
India and context matters.
So if you think about it,working from home in
(21:47):
multi-generational families isprobably not a great environment
to work.
These were workers that wererandomly selected to work from
home or in office.
They didn't have heads up orthe ability to set up different
places.
Working remotely, like workingnear home or in a co-working
space versus your own office, isalso very different.
So the research was flawed.
But that's not what the mediasaid.
(22:07):
They said it's less productive.
And then all the bandwagonjumpers that are anti-remote
work gone on board, includingone of the guys that has the
highest stakes in office rentalsin the world who said we know
it, we've been telling you, comeback and renew your leases.
And so I think we need to focusless on this kind of salacious
(22:28):
polarizing media on the topics,which is fear mongering and not
helpful to managers who, I trulythink, want to do a good job.
They wake up every day and theywant to be a good manager and
see results and have it all, andso we need to start teaching
people things like what's thedifference between making a
remote first and a remote OKenvironment?
Ok, what are the tactics thatwe can do with that?
What's the change management,as you said?
(22:50):
So a remote OK environment isif you want to take the
afternoon to work from home, gofor it.
But if we have a conference call, eight of us are going to be in
the actual conference call roomtalking to each other and
whispering and you're not goingto be able to hear it from your
home office and it's on the side.
Or if we're remote first andnot just remote OK, if one
person isn't in the conferenceroom, all of us take the call
(23:10):
from our individual computers,because it makes it a better
user experience for everybody inour company.
So we need these types of tipsthat are small, tactical and
actually make an impact topeople being able to collaborate
and work in changingenvironments.
We need to stop searmongeringand having so many articles
written all the time.
That's what we need to stop.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:31):
You say that about so many topics, Eryn.
Eryn Peters (23:33):
I know.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:34):
We really just need to bring critical
thinking back and wide scaleproblem solving.
Eryn Peters (23:41):
My tinfoil hat at the shop is going to open on the
weekend.
I'll be your first subscriber.
Portia Mount (23:47):
We will post the link.
Send me the link later.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:50):
Everybody will post the link.
I love it.
Oh, but you're so right, andit's interesting because, as
you're kind of talking, Eryn,I'm thinking so much about Gen Z
and the little baby gen alphasand what a wild ride they're
going to have with all that'sswirling around right now.
Eryn Peters (24:12):
But I also love them.
Gen Z coming into the workforcethey get no leaps.
I don't know if I'm allowed toswear on this podcast.
I'm monitoring myself.
Portia Mount (24:20):
You can totally swear.
No, you can't.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (24:22):
You can swear on this.
Portia Mount (24:25):
There haven't been a lot of F-bombs lately, but
we've had them in the past, youcan swear.
Eryn Peters (24:30):
I've even strategically cropped out my get
shit done, sign behind me, justfor this oh, you have to do
that, we have to do that.
You should have brought it back.
We're all about getting shitdone.
Yeah, good, good, but yeah.
But I love them because they'reso funny, gen Z, they care
about such big hair problems inthe world that they also have a
really obscure sense of humorand the way that they approach
(24:53):
things.
And I'm really loving thisfresh new perspective that we
have coming into the workforce,where people are just not afraid
to call each other on theirshit, not afraid to bring in
external resources and just dothings totally differently.
Social norms aren't really athing for them and I'm like,
yeah, let's break it, it's notworking anyways.
Portia Mount (25:11):
It's so true, and you only have to go to Instagram
to see some of the ways theymeme their leaders.
And I'm just, I just wantleaders, especially if you are
Gen X, like me.
I don't think they have anyidea of how much we are being
made fun of for how we like GenX, be like Gen Z, be like Jim,
(25:38):
millennials, be like.
It's just so funny, but also itcuts deep because you realize
they really do think about workvery differently, even things
like PTO and one of my previouscompanies.
A gentleman had retired.
(25:58):
He'd been in the company for,let's say, 45 years and the one
thing that he touted in hisgoing away was that he had only
missed one day of work.
And yeah, exactly, just to lookat your faces.
Everybody was like, oh my god,I'm coming, I'm coming Right,
(26:19):
like who would like in 2024 andthe year of Beyonce's internet,
who would ever, ever like toutthat as an accomplishment?
But it just shows you thedifference in just how
especially Gen Z thinks abouttheir work.
(26:41):
And, by the way, good for them,because, back to the point of
our earlier conversation, thesocial contract has changed and
so we have to behave differently.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:53):
Eryn.
So for listeners who arethinking about pivoting away
from a full-time role andthinking about becoming a
full-time solopreneur orfreelancer, what are three to
five things people need to thinkabout if they're thinking about
making that switch?
Eryn Peters (27:08):
I think first is really just doing some soft
reflection I know that sounds alittle boo-boo, but truly figure
out what you enjoy doing andfind the intersection between
that and what you're good at.
This is going to develop yourniche of your offerings.
I think knowing exactly whatyou want to do and how you want
to do it is helpful, becauseotherwise there's just an
(27:29):
overwhelming amount of jobs thatyou can do on a freelance basis
or even remotely.
Just think about what you wantto do.
That's the big one.
I think the other is reallythinking about your risk
tolerance.
We talked about it earlier too.
Of a lot of people think thatthis is very binary.
You're either an employee oryou're a freelancer.
But all of us have the lifesituation or working situation
(27:51):
where I can just quit my job andhope my business starts up
making money tomorrow.
I think that we need to go.
Okay, what's my runway?
Do I want to trickle my way inby doing some moonlighting or
side hustles or starting abusiness quietly in my own hours
like a Saturday solopreneur?
Think about how much timeyou're willing to invest and how
(28:13):
much capital you're willing toput at risk, because starting a
business not only is money,depending on if you're selling
goods or anything else, but it'sopportunity cost of money you
could be making elsewhere and inhouse employment.
It's a really importantconversation to have with
yourself and with any of yourdependents or people within your
family or circle.
Then from there, I see, startgoing through it.
(28:35):
You can find your own customersin so many different ways,
whether you're advertising orthe power of social media, as we
talked about.
But there's literally aplatform for everything.
You can do gigs to X and answercustomer queries on platforms
like limitless.
Or you can learn softwaredevelopment skills and work with
Top Child or Turing or Indellaor all the blue companies that
(28:57):
are out there.
You can go to market or hire ifyou want to share some of your
marketing skills or Upwork orFiverr or Freelancercom that
have any skill under the sun.
You don't have to go fully soloand develop your whole book of
business.
You can hop on these sites andsee lots of companies that are
looking for those skills and gethired, and there's some for
lawyers and everything.
Truly, open your mind and startlooking for a talent platform
(29:19):
or a talent marketplace forinsert skill set here.
I think those are the threethings it's going.
What do I like and what am Igood at?
As the first one, what is myrisk tolerance and how much do I
want to go online or not?
Right now, where can I startgenerating some leads, whether
it's immediately, very quickly,through my network, through
social media, or finding aplatform that suits you and
(29:40):
already has a bit of a usergrace there, nice.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (29:44):
I love this.
Know yourself first of all.
Eryn Peters (29:47):
First and foremost, know yourself.
It was everything you do yes.
Portia Mount (29:51):
Yes, and so, Eryn, for the folks who are, they
decided they do want to work fora company and I'm going back to
a piece that you know earlierpart of our conversation and
let's say they have a very welldeveloped side business, and how
would you advise them as theirjob searching, how to talk to
(30:15):
their employers?
Because, again, I feel likethis is an area that you know.
Of course, you see a lot ofdramatic exits that then people
share on LinkedIn and then shareon Instagram.
But, you know, I think there'san opportunity for companies to
keep really talented people whoalso have, who are developing
skills in these side ventures.
(30:36):
So how would you advise someonewho is looking for a full-time
job and they have a very robustside business?
How would you advise them totalk to their potential employer
so that it's really clear thatthey intend to keep that
business and to help explain tothe employer why they're doing
it?
So we can, you know, maybeavoid people companies losing
(31:00):
really talented people justbecause someone's got to decide
a side business, side hustle.
Eryn Peters (31:04):
Absolutely.
I mean there's a couplemindsets about it.
I always think honesty is thebest policy, especially if you
don't really have a relationshipwith this company yet.
So be transparent about it andask them upfront do you have a
moonlighting policy?
A lot of companies actuallywrite it in their contracts now,
saying you are not allowed towork for anybody else, even your
own business, outside of this,because a lot of companies think
(31:26):
that they're protecting yourwell-being by going.
Nobody can spend more than 40hours a week at work and so
you're going to spend those 40hours with us.
So make sure you check thatlegally, this isn't going to be
an issue for you, and beforthcoming about the fact that
you have these other things andI think part of it is how they
respond is also a really goodbarometer for whether or not you
really want to work there.
Like, did they immediately getcagey about it?
(31:46):
Were they realistic?
Like, is this the type ofperson that you're going to want
to work with anyways?
Maybe or maybe not.
You already are workingsomewhere and you want to either
start or restart or maintain aside business or a side hustle
in a different way.
The r slash over employedReddit community has over
200,000 people in it.
There's a lot of people who areworking two, three, five
(32:07):
full-time jobs under the radarnow.
Portia Mount (32:09):
Oh my God, who are these people?
And I'm sure you can find a lotof tips and tricks.
Eryn Peters (32:12):
What?
That's not me that could not beme.
What A lot of people don'tfigure out automation, AI
leveraging and revolver.
No, yeah, they've got good tipstoo, but you know, what Part of
it is also going like hey, again, roles are really broken.
They're like I'm going to finda role that's middle of the pack
, and probably not leadership ormanagement, and I'm just going
(32:34):
to do an okay job at all of them.
And if I do an okay job at allof them, that's about 100% of a
full-time job.
So you know, this is how peopleare gaming the system.
I myself can't ever advocate forpeople to break the law, but if
you want to check out tipsthere's a lot of people about
community.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (32:53):
You don't want to touch that one, Eryn,
it's like we are not endorsingover-employed Reddit.
Portia Mount (33:01):
but you know, caveat, m-tor, oh no.
Eryn Peters (33:04):
I mean I always endorse over-employments for
those who are voluntarilyover-employed.
I never endorse people doing itwhere it's like potentially
deceitful or illegal.
Portia Mount (33:12):
I'll go that far, but like if you want to work
multiple jobs, you do it, youbuild your empire.
That is stuff, and a lot oftimes it's also about multiple.
You know, back to your earlierpoint, it's about de-risking
your income, diversifying and Ithink this again and
diversifying your income andhaving multiple income streams.
And again, what I hope leaders,hiring managers are hearing is
(33:35):
like is asking themselves am Ipaying people what they're worth
?
Am I creating financial, theright kinds of financial
incentives to keep my mosttalented people?
And I think that's when peopleare feeling well compensated.
There's, I would imagine,there's less desire to do that.
But again, the mindset is verydifferent, though.
(33:56):
Right People?
Eryn Peters (33:57):
are.
Yeah, it's compensation is aninteresting one because I
there's golden handcuffs as aterm right.
I can't leave, submitting paidso much but I'd like to leave,
and so I think valued is theright word here.
If I feel valued whether that'sthrough the form of monetary
compensation, the way that I'mtreated at work, you know all
these other things like, if Istill valued, yeah, I'm probably
a lot more likely to be areally good employee.
(34:18):
But compensation is sometimes adouble-edged sword.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (34:22):
I also think you know people may feel
really valid in their role andjust have other interests.
You know, I think this ideathat your, your job is your
beginning and end and where youshould find happiness or
fulfillment is so dated.
It's an outdated idea, so evenif you are valued, highly
compensated, doing a great job,it's, you know, back to that
(34:45):
caste system idea.
Why is it okay for some peopleto have other interests or
upskill or, frankly, buildwealth, and it's not okay for
other people to do it?
Eryn Peters (34:56):
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Portia Mount (34:59):
So, Eryn, this, this is our favorite part of the
pod.
It's the lightning round.
Tiffany, take us in.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (35:08):
All right, so we'll have just a few
questions.
Don't overthink it.
We'll ask you whatever comes tomind.
So the first question is whatis your favorite motto or phrase
that defines your mindset?
Oh, interesting.
Eryn Peters (35:21):
I mean, I don't know if there's a favorite one,
but one that I kind of comeacross recently that really
stuck with me is let go or bedragged, and that I was going.
You know, I have some we'retalking about self reflection I
got some things I'm working onand you know, I have things
cester sometimes or I thinkabout it, and so I'm like, yeah,
you know, I really do need tolet go because I am dragging
myself.
Portia Mount (35:42):
That's good, I needed that today I needed to
hear like it kind of hit.
Did you notice, Tiffany, howthat hit when you were like, oh
yeah, because I'm gettingdragged on some things.
So okay, thank you, Eryn'skicking some wisdom down the us.
Yeah, of course.
So you're accepting a hugeaward.
What's your walk on song?
Eryn Peters (36:01):
Oh gosh, see, I'm so bad with music and names of
songs, but I would either dosomething really ironic like
Rick, for all everybody in theaudience, or like really cheesy
classic like I have the tiger,just like classic.
Portia Mount (36:18):
That is a classic, it is a classic.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:23):
Okay, what is one book that you find
yourself recommending or giftingoften?
Eryn Peters (36:29):
Oh yeah, I mean I have two that I probably
recommend all the time.
Actually, portion is that oneof them?
I have a lot of friends thatare single and I also work in a
matchmaking industry, so youknow talent platforms is
matchmaking.
So I recommend the book how toNot Die Alone by Logan Urie.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:46):
I love that.
Eryn Peters (36:48):
Ready Miss Down.
Portia Mount (36:49):
It's a savage title, but it is full of good
tips, Because the dating streetsapparently across the globe are
I'm married, but the datingstreets across the globe are
trash.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:59):
Yes, it's so bad the dating streets are
trash.
Eryn Peters (37:01):
It's not anyone.
It's horrible but it's reallyinteresting.
It really forces you again toself reflect but give some
tactical tips on how to go aboutit.
As someone who works withdifferent technology matching
algorithms.
She also goes deep into howtechnology is affecting the way
that we find matches andpartners which, if you are in
the staffing industry ormatchmaking in any way shape or
(37:21):
form, maybe it's alsointeresting for you.
But the other book I alwaysrecommend is a lot of people I
talk to are in major careermoments or inflections.
They're not sure what to do,and I love the book the
Alchemist, so like finding yourpurpose and like taking science
from the universe of what'sworking and what's not, and it's
really cute read.
So those are kind of my top twothat I always pull out from the
(37:42):
buck shelf behind me.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (37:44):
Yes.
Portia Mount (37:44):
I love those, I love that.
So what's the best purchaseunder $150?
Now, I know you're working inpounds now so you'll have to do
the translate, but under $150that you've made, I mean like my
dog is the most obvious one.
Eryn Peters (38:03):
But I mean other than that, like probably my
monitor.
Like I was a digital nomad forfive years and worked only on my
laptop and in hindsight I don'tknow how I did it because I'm
quite tall.
So having an actual externalmonitor that I can set up
straight while I'm working hasbeen a real game changer for my
back.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:19):
Yeah, Okay , Eryn.
What is a secret unpopularopinion that you hold?
This is my favorite question.
Eryn Peters (38:26):
In addition, in addition to hating the media, no
, I think one that is alwayslike triggers a lot of people, I
think is like I really don'tthink that MBAs are worth
anything.
I think, like tons of moneywhere you're basically buying a
(38:46):
network.
I think that it's reallymeaningless and by the time you
actually go through thelearnings from an MBA program,
it's already out of date in themodern business world when it
comes to like internationalworking or like marketing trends
.
So I actually think that yourmoney is better spent starting a
business and like, even if youfail, you're probably going to
learn more than you will in anMBA.
(39:07):
All right, that is a hot take,Eryn, and this is coming from
someone who's spoken at a veryprestigious MBA business school
with him last year as well.
Portia Mount (39:16):
So don't tell me what I will not.
Well, as someone who has an MBA, and I will tell you who got it
more than 10 years ago, there'snothing that we did it learned
in market and marketing that isrelevant today Absolutely
nothing.
So I will I do.
I agree with you, Eryn, thatthe value proposition for the
MBA has just really, reallychanged.
(39:36):
And I think I get asked all thetime should I get an MBA?
And I will tell you a lot oftimes I tell people don't even
bother, you know what I mean.
Like take a course, get acertification but, don't.
don't spend a ton of moneyunless someone's going to you
get into Harvard and someone'sgoing to pay you to send you
there, and even then you knowjust like just it may not be
worth it.
So I love that point.
Eryn Peters (39:57):
I know you're buying the network.
It's not about the coursematerials, right Like it's about
the net.
Portia Mount (40:01):
Exactly, Exactly.
So our last question for youtoday is what's a hobby you have
that would surprise people whoknow you?
Eryn Peters (40:12):
I would like to think that I'm a fairly
multifaceted person, but I thinkone that surprises people is
because I live in such a digitalworld.
I actually crocheted like a lotof hobbies have been 80 year
old women, but that's probablyone that surprises people more.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (40:29):
I love this.
My daughter.
She's seven but she crochetsand it's very into it.
It's a whole thing.
Eryn Peters (40:35):
Yeah, oh my gosh, we'd be besties.
Portia Mount (40:39):
I you know what I love.
That kind of it's part of thatslow lifestyle.
It's like I do canning and Ilike and it's like a old school
hobby.
People are like you like withthe boiling, with the boiling
water and the jars, and so Ilove that you've got this kind
of slow hobby where you use yourhands and everything.
What's, what's something thatyou've made that you're really
proud of?
Eryn Peters (40:59):
I should make all kinds of stuff.
I think the strangest thingI've ever made was I was
commissioned to crochet asweater for a chicken that had
lost all of its feathers.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:10):
Oh, my goodness what.
I have so many questions.
What's happened to theirfeathers?
Eryn Peters (41:16):
I have so many questions Like what's happened
to their feathers?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:19):
There's a marketplace for this.
And what?
What happened to their feathers?
Eryn Peters (41:23):
Oh, it's attacked my daughter.
It's quite sad, but it was nolonger cold because it had a
sweater done by Aaron Peters.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:30):
This is top tier content.
Eryn Peters (41:32):
This is the second Etsy shop that you need to open.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:34):
Eryn, I don't know, chicken sweaters,
sweaters for featherlesschickens.
Portia Mount (41:40):
This is amazing.
We cannot talk.
I don't know who is going totop this Tiffany.
Nobody can you and.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:47):
Aaron, can I just say you, are an icon,
and for that answer alone.
Portia Mount (41:53):
I am so you kick down so much knowledge today,
but let me tell you this was theicing on the cake.
I don't know how we can evertop this.
And also, I will not be able tostop thinking about a chicken
running around with a bespokesweater.
Eryn Peters (42:13):
Yeah, yeah, it was a very happy chicken in the end.
Portia Mount (42:16):
I am sure.
Aaron Peters, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
It has been such a delight, andwe hope that people go out and
find you on LinkedIn as well assign up for your newsletter.
Give a quick overview of whatyour newsletter is about, too,
so people can make sure thatthey do sign up for it.
Eryn Peters (42:36):
Absolutely.
I mean it's weeklyworkforcecom.
I write about anything to dowith the future of work, whether
it's remote working, digitalnomadism, freelancing and
contracting, like we talkedabout today, new laws and
legislation.
It all sounds very dry andboring, but I'm also love a good
meme, love throwing in my owntwo cents on things.
So if you liked my tone andkind of voice and opinions I had
(42:59):
in this call, it's just more ofthat and it's in your inbox
every week.
I love it, by the way.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (43:04):
I love you .
Portia Mount (43:07):
And thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to theManifesta podcast.
Our sound designer and audioengineer is Nina Pollak of Nina
Pollak Sound.
Our social media manager isdestiny.
I have a question, comment ortopic for our next episode?
Email us at themanifesta atgmailcom.
(43:30):
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
podcast, spotify or wherever youlisten to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
And don't forget to follow uson Instagram at themanifesta,
and TikTok at themanifestapod.
See you next time.
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