Awaken your Rebel Soul with Shelley Paxton

Shelley Paxton, author, speaker, and Chief Soul Officer, joins Portia today for a discussion around what happens when you wake up and realize you want something different out of your life and career. Shelley talks about the power of being honest with yourself and giving yourself permission to rebel for who you really are. Learn how to define your own success and be your authentic self.

Have a question or comment? Email us at [e-mail].

Books mentioned in this episode: Soulbbatical: A Corporate Rebel’s Guide to Finding Your Best Life by Shelley Paxton, The Wild Why: Stories and Teachings to Uncover Your Wonder by Laura Munson, and The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life by Suleika Jaouad.

Portia Mount on LinkedIn

Shelley Paxton on LinkedIn

Shelley Paxton’s Website

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of
Ungovernable Women, formerly theManifesta Podcast, the
lifestyle and career podcast foraspiring women.
Our new name reflects ourmission to reach even more
listeners with stories of womenwho are breaking boundaries and
redefining success.
I have a favor to ask you, ifyou haven't done so already,
please rate and subscribe to thepod.

(00:21):
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, it boosts our rankings
and helps more people discoverus.
Thanks for tuning in.
Welcome to Season 5 ofUngovernable Women, the career
and lifestyle podcast foraspiring women ready to break
barriers.
I'm Portia Mouw and I'mthrilled to be back.
We've got a new name, but ourmission remains stronger than

(00:43):
ever helping women find theirpurpose, lead high-impact
careers and meaningful lives.
This season, we'll bring youthe stories of women who forged
their own paths to success.
It's our time to shine.
Let's dive in Squad.
I am so thrilled to welcometoday Shelly Paxton, author,

(01:04):
speaker and chief soul officer.
We're going to get to that in amoment.
You are going to love thisconversation today because we're
going to talk about burnout,purpose and what happens when
you wake up and realize you justwant something different out of
your career and life, somethingthat reignites your soul, and
Shelly is on this incrediblemission to help people gather

(01:28):
the courage to choose themselves.
Our guest today, shelly Paxton,is a global advertising and
media executive who's hadincredible executive roles with
DBB, omnicom Media, and she hasstewarded brands like McDonald's
, visa, intel so many brandsthat you know.
She left the agency world andwent to the dark side, went

(01:49):
client side and with HarleyDavidson, where she eventually
became chief marketing officer.
She is the author of thebestselling Soul Baticle, a
Corporate Rebel's Guide toFinding your Best Life.
Shelly's motto is I quit so youdon't have to, and she's on a

(02:11):
mission to help leaders andorganizations flip the script
from success empty to successful, and we love this so much and
we're going to unpack that aswell.
And this is really aboutcreating lives and cultures
fueled by badassery, not burnout.
You can learn so much moreabout Shelly on her website,
wwwshelly.
That's with an Eshellypaxtoncom.

(02:34):
And, as always, we link to hersocials and her website in the
show notes.
Shelly, welcome.
I am so, so, so happy to haveyou here today.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Oh, soul Sister, this has been the highlight of my
week and you know I miss you, Imiss hanging out with you, and
so what a gift it is.
So thank you for the invitation.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's so funny because and I said
this to someone and I think Ieven posted when you and I met
last fall is when you meetsomebody and you're like, oh my
God, I have to be friends withthis person.
And Shelly, I just need you toknow, I don't like everybody.
I famously like to say that Ionly have like four friends,

(03:17):
Like I'm super, super selective,but when I met you I was like,
oh my God, she's like my person.
Oh yeah, I'm going to add thatto the list of like 989,000
reasons.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I love you because we share that as well.
And just I mean for anyonelistening like don't ignore
those moments where the universeputs like the sign, the symbol,
the person right in front ofyou or right next to you, as you
were to me and I was to you Atthis event, we were at speakers

(03:56):
and we were not coincidentallysat right next to each other, it
was not random.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It was not random.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And it never is.
It was not random, it was notrandom and it never is, and so I
just think that's a beautifultone to set for this whole
conversation because, none ofthis is random.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
It was like oh my God , our souls collided with it and
we have similar.
We were like oh my God.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, it was very funny and I love that you say
that too, Shelly, about payingattention, because there's so
many articles today about howhard it is for people to make
friends, keep friends.
There's a lot of reasons forthat, you know.
Especially as women, we tend tobe busy and we have lots of
responsibilities, but also welive in much more isolated lives
, and so, like I totally agree,like when you meet somebody and

(04:40):
you're like I want to be friendswith that person, don't ignore
that, and you're like I want tobe friends with that person,
don't ignore that.
And like, because weimmediately exchange information
, we make contact and that's theway to do it, like don't ignore
the impulse.
So like you're already kickingdown advice, right, we're like
two minutes in.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I love it.
Well, it was such a gift.
I am, I feel, so fortunate tohave had that moment where the
universe put us next to eachother and to have a friend and
soul sister in my life and to bedoing this with them.
And can I just say thank youfor having this podcast and
these kinds of conversations,because they're so incredibly

(05:17):
important.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Thank you.
Thank you, Shelly, and I thinkwhat I am seeing and feeling in
the world now is there are lotsof people like us who are trying
to not just connect with oneanother, but to spread this
message and to help people lookdeeply within and live the life

(05:39):
they want to live right.
Live the way they.
We're here for such a shorttime.
Why not live in a way that isfilled with purpose and meaning
and sets your soul on fire?
And so let me ask you just avery basic question, before we
really dig deep into themeaningful things, which is
where are you Like?
Where does this pod find youtoday?
Yes, I'm in Chicago.

(06:01):
The shy, the shy.
Yeah, I'm in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
The Chi, the Chi, yeah, the Chi town, as some
people call it.
It's become my adult home over,you know, on and off over many
decades and after I left Harleyand I know we'll get to that-
part of the story.
I found this very specificplace.
I live in a loft that's an oldgarment factory Nice, nice, what
part of Chicago?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
What neighborhood I'm old?
Garment factory Nice, nice.
What part of Chicago?
What neighborhood.
I'm in Bucktown oh you're inBucktown, awesome yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, I love it, so this has become I call it Rebel
Soul HQ.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Oh, I love it and I love this thing, I love that and
I want to.
We're going to talk about thattoo, because I think rebel is
one of those words where peopleare like, oh my gosh, I can't be
a rebel.
But you've got a reallyspecific way of thinking about
rebel.
So when I stalk everybody, evenwhen I've met them, I like to
do my homework and see what elseI can uncover.

(06:56):
And you have this on yourwebsite.
Your Rebel Leaders Manifestostarts with this we are powerful
motherfuckers.
We are the leaders of arevolution to bring more
humanity to leadership andculture, to celebrate each and

(07:17):
every one of us as human beings,not human doings, and when I
read that I was like hot damn.
So let's unpack this for thepeople.
What are you talking about here?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I love that you played it back to me.
I have not read my own RebelLeaders Manifesto in a long time
and I'm actually in the processof You're like that's so good,
I still read it.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Who wrote that?

Speaker 2 (07:47):
No, I'm dead.
Yeah, I'm in the process oflike refurbishing my website and
it's so funny.
I need to dig in and read someof my own stuff because, to my
core, every single one of thosewords that you just read and I
think it unleashed in me thisidea that what I'm doing it's so

(08:09):
much bigger than me and thejourney that I've been on.
It's about the collective and amovement and this idea that I
say rebel for versus rebelagainst.
I'll add to the very specificlanguage I highlighted in just a
second second.
I think, this is importantcontext In my book and in a lot

(08:30):
of my work.
If you choose to dive deeper,what you'll learn is I've always
been a rebel.
When I was young, I was thekind of rebel that was like I
will not listen to my parents orauthority, or the nuns at the
boarding school I went to for ayear or whatever.
It was what?

Speaker 1 (08:49):
birth order.
Are you in, shelly?
Let's hit the pause.
I'm the oldest.
Are you Interesting?
Because I'm the oldest too, andoldest tent.
Well, I guess they're notalways known to be rebels, but
they are known to sort of dotheir own thing right, so okay.
So I just had to clear that upbecause that's very interesting
to me.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, so I was definitely doing my own thing in
a very rebellious way and thereason that I say that there are
lots of funny stories about myyouth and being a rebel and what
, what I realized when, as Istarted to go on this journey
and reconnect with my own soul,I realized that for so much of

(09:30):
my life I had been rebellingagainst you know my parents and
what people were saying youshould do, and trying to do it
in my own way and it wasexhausting in my own way and it
was exhausting and one of my bigahas is that's a little bit of

(09:51):
why rebel has such a negativeconnotation you think of, like
for our generation maybe yourgeneration's older than us you
think james dean yeah, we're genxers, yeah uh-huh, smoking the
motorcycle off to his right andlisten.
I relate to a lot of that, forobvious reasons, the motorcycle
part in particular.
And at the same time it'susually like it's the outsider
they're, they're the outcasts,they're rebelling against.

(10:13):
And the epiphany that I hadearly on in this journey was the
real power is in rebelling forand all of a sudden it felt
empowering and expansive and Iwas like, wait a second, if I'm
rebelling for who I am, myauthenticity, what I want, like

(10:38):
my truth and my dreams, and theimpact that I want to have in
whether it's my life, mybusiness, my world, all three of
those things that feels soincredibly powerful and badass,
and what a beautiful place tocome from.
So, a big shift and really wherethat manifesto started to come

(11:02):
from was this idea of rebellingfor who.
I am and what my truth is, andthen this manifesto and my work
and my mission in the worldreally started to spill out of
me.
So I want to set that contextbecause it's an invitation to
anyone listening who feels stuckor maybe you're pushing against

(11:26):
your if you can't see the video.
I've got a brick wall in myloft behind me and I was 100%
that person who was constantlybanging my head against that
brick wall and now I'm like I'mnever going to move that brick
wall.
So what if I look away from thebrick wall, dig deep inside of

(11:46):
me and rebel for?
And that feels again empoweringand expansive.
And that's where all of my workhas come from.
And that's the invitation foreveryone.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Oh, that's so powerful, and so I guess that I
I think that, if I'm thinkingabout our listeners, one of the
questions they're going to ask,they're going to look at your
bio and they're going to be like, oh my gosh, this woman's been
at the height of the best brands, the biggest media companies,
lots of prestige and status whenyou made the shift to rebel,

(12:25):
for what was that process orevent or thing that happened and
how did you think about it?
Because there are a lot ofpeople out there who are like I
do not like where I am and Idon't know how to create an

(12:46):
alternative, a meaningfulalternative, to what I'm doing.
So I'm just going to keep doingwhat I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah Well, if you think about what I said and
believe me, I understand, I amnot in any way suggesting this
is easy work and, at the sametime, the investment, it is the
most liberating work you willever do, whatever that means for
you.
And I think it's reallyimportant to say early in this

(13:13):
conversation the reason that Iquit so you don't have to is my
motto is because I do notbelieve that my work means that
everybody needs to take the paththat I've taken.
It does not mean to mean, oreven mean at its core, that you
have to leave your job.
What?
it does mean when you thinkabout rebel, for the very first

(13:37):
step that I took, and I wouldencourage all of you to take, is
to get really honest withyourself.
Yeah, this is where it starts.
And I always say and actuallythere was a, I'm a big fan of
young Pueblo.
Um and a quote of his just likesmacked me like a two by four

(13:59):
the other day, and at the end ofit I won't remember the whole
quote, but at the end of it itbasically said before any of
these other things can happen,before we can move forward,
before we can rebel for in mylanguage, we have to face the
hard truths we're avoiding ohwow, that's where my whole

(14:28):
journey started and I know I'min that place again.
Of what are I say?
What are you pretending?

Speaker 1 (14:30):
not to know, okay, so what was that for you?
So, when you talk about thefacing the hard truths yeah,
that you were avoiding, what wasI mean the ones that you can
share publicly.
Let's just be, let's be morespecific, but like what was,
like what were, what was one foryou?

Speaker 2 (14:44):
yeah, and I think it's really important to say
that I share almost everythingpublicly, like I.
I think that was part of livingmy truth.
I say authenticity, courage andvalues at the same time.
The number one thing for mewhen I started asking this
question while I was still atHarley was I realized that I was

(15:05):
pretending not to know, that Iwas living my dad's success
script.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Oh, say that for the people in the back.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Calling it and I know this resonates because all of
the rooms I stand in the stages,I speak on the leaders, I work
with the workshops that Ifacilitate.
This comes up again and again.
It may not be your dad'ssuccess script but very often
it's one of your parents.
It's somebody else's yeah it'ssomebody else's, what your
community expected, what societyputs on us, the ways that we

(15:42):
define society has traditionallyand often from a patriarchal
perspective defined success, andso when I started to unravel
that and untangle that formyself, I realized that script
had served me incredibly wellfor a very long time.

(16:05):
So I think it's also reallyimportant to say I feel
incredibly fortunate.
I have zero regrets, becausewe're on this path at different
stages for a reason.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Right, and then I got to this point where it was no
longer serving me and it forcedme to get really honest about
who am I.
Think about all the threequestions I asked with Rebel 4.
Who am I?
What is my truth, my essence,the values that matter to me?

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
What do I want?
What are my dreams?
Not my dad's dreams.
My dad was super clear with methat he wanted me to be the
president of Harley Davidson andthen go on to running.
You know, president, CEO,chairman of the board of other.
Was he at Harley Davidson?
No, no, no, my dad wasn't atHarley Davidson.
But my dad had a huge career.

(17:01):
My dad was president and CEO ofbig companies like Pillsbury if
anybody remembers PillsburyDoughboy, haagen-dazs, ice Cream
, some freaking privatecompanies.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
So that was in your blood.
Yeah, these big consumerproducts, like brands, like in
your blood.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
And he started in marketing and my dad came from
nothing and made himself and itwas his mission in the world to
get out of the tiny town that hegrew up in in Ohio and to make
it quote, unquote, make it right.
And that fueled me for a longtime and I looked back and I'm
like I really did follow mydad's success script.

(17:42):
I did it with a Shelly flavorand a Shelly way and that served
me because I wanted to be veryglobal, I wanted my job to be a
ticket or my career to be aticket around the world, and it
was.
I lived around the world, Iworked around the world and so,
coming back to that, it wasterrifying to face this truth,

(18:06):
this very hard and painful andreal truth, that this success
script served me well but it wasnot my own and the emptiness,
the lack of fulfillment, thealoneness that I was feeling.
I was having a nightmare whichwe can get into, which was my

(18:27):
real wake-up call at Harley.
It was helping me to understandand face the truth that this
was no longer mine and I neededto reconnect with myself so that
it was going to start.
Success as an idea is trulyfrom the inside out.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
It really is, and you said something really important
that it seems to be a themewith a number of the guests I've
talked with who have been ontransformational journeys and
made it to the other side, whichis that who am I?
Question is not only veryprofound, it can be rather
challenging to answer becausewe've never thought about it.

(19:08):
It's been about somebody else'ssuccess script right.
It's a mental model that wecarry and so when you finally
have the space, you're like holycrap, like who am I?
What's really important to me?
What do I want to wake up everyday doing?
What kind of impact do I wantto have while I'm walking this

(19:28):
earth?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, and I talk a lot about this idea of releasing
what I call the shackles ofshould, and so much of what
terrifies us in doing this workand getting honest with
ourselves is that the world issaying well, I mean, you should

(19:52):
be on a path to this thing, youknow, to the C-suite.
You should be on a path tomanaging partner in your law
firm.
You should be on a path whereyou're going to make six, seven,
eight figures.
You should be on a path that issecure and comfortable and
offers you insurance, and it'sokay if it's not super exciting,

(20:12):
it's comfortable.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
And.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
I'm not poo-pooing any of those things, I'm just
saying that's not usually ourlanguage, it's usually somebody
else's should somebody else'sstory that we have been
conditioned to believe as ourown, and that, to me, was the
hardest part was understandingwhere are the shoulds popping up

(20:36):
in my life and I talk in mybook and in my work very openly,
and I say it like I just keptsaying God, I'm misinvested.
When I left Harley, I had beenin the advertising and marketing
world for 26 years.
I was 46 years old and Ithought you know, I can just

(20:59):
keep doing this for a littlewhile longer and just pack away
a little bit more money in mybank account.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Oh my gosh Right.
I talked to so many I can't tellyou how many executives I
talked to her Like.
They're like I'm going to be 55and I fully vest and I just
have to hang in there and likeand they're getting increasingly
more miserable.
But they're like, I just haveto, I'm just going to, I'm just
going to stay the course.

(21:26):
I don't want to change.
I have too much social capital.
It's too much, it's too hard.
I'm just going to and then, youknow, I'll ride into the sunset
as soon as all my stock vestsand meanwhile it's like, you
know, you're just getting grounddown.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Well, and also there is no certainty.
I think we convince ourselvesthat there's certainty and I can
just stay and I can just stay.
And again, I'm not saying leave, I'm saying get honest about
how you can make this work foryou.
In a way, it might not be whatyou're doing, it might be how
you're doing how you're doingwhat you're doing.
How is what you're doingactually making you feel, or how
you're showing up and the whatyou're doing actually making you
feel, or how you're showing upand the choices you're making in
your life every day how arethose making you feel?

(22:12):
And I think that's anincredibly important piece of it
, because I remember askingmyself very similar to what you
said.
I was sitting there and I washaving this nightmare from 45 to
46.
I'm chief marketing officer ofHarley Davidson.
I have arguably the sexiest job, the sexiest job.

(22:32):
And everybody around me is like.
Everybody wants to talk to me.
I'm wearing leather.
I pierced my nose.
I can walk into a boardroom inboots and jeans and a leather
jacket.
I'm riding motorcycles with myteam around the world.
I mean, it's absolutelyincredible on so many levels.
And at the same time I'm havingthis nightmare in the middle of

(22:55):
the night that is not letting mesleep.
And what I am seeing I laterunderstood to be this I was
literally seeing my dog, who haddied in the year before I went
to Harley In the midst, oractually at the very end, of a
very turbulent divorce.

(23:16):
I went to Harley alone,reinventing myself, and then I
start having this nightmare fiveyears later, five and a half
years later, and I'm seeing mydog, who in the real world has
passed six years ago, and in mynightmare I find him.

(23:37):
He was a little fat roly polypug.
He's absolutely adorable and Iwould make my way to this like
through a maze to a closet, andI would open this small utility
closet in this dark room that Ididn't even know existed.
I had no idea where I was andin there, like neglected, dying,

(23:58):
malnourished.
Longing for attention is myplug.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Oh my God, that's not a sign.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I start to believe like what kind of monster am I?
He's not been dead.
I've actually forgotten abouthim.
I haven't left him to die inthis closet.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
And I talk very openly about the power of
therapy and all the work thatI've done, whatever works for
you, but through therapy,because I was getting desperate,
I wasn't sleeping.
I was running a global team, Iwas trying to show up every day
and I was like, I know, justlike meeting you and sitting

(24:42):
next to you in Nashville, I knew100% that this was happening
for me for me to understand andthrough the work that I did in
therapy and Dr Bob, my therapist.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
We love it.
By the way, shout out to ourtherapist, Dr Bob.
Shout out, shout out.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, the whole situation was ironic.
I won't even tell you Dr Bobwas more of a functional
medicine doctor.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay, I love that.
Listen, I'm like everybodyshould be in therapy for the
rest of their lives.
I'm a huge therapy advocate.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, a hundred percent and he really helped me.
So talk about unpacking all ofthis.
He's the first one who asked methat question.
What are you pretending, not?

Speaker 1 (25:27):
to know.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
And when I sat with it, and sat with it, and sat
with it, which was hard as fuck.
I did not want to see what Iknow I was seeing and I realized
one morning, and I couldn'tignore it anymore, that Mocha,
my little neglected dog in thisutility closet, was a proxy for
my soul.
Mmm and that began everything,because suddenly you know that

(25:56):
reframe like reframes are soimportant yes, really, really
important right, and so we canall figure out, like even that
one degree shift and for me, theshift of.
you know the terror of believingI'm a monster who's left her
dog in a closet to die for years, to understanding that that's

(26:17):
my soul crying out to me andthat we don't have a
relationship anymore, we don'thave a connection.
I have left my soul in thecloset to die in a closet to die
and malnourished and neglected,was the wake up.
And then I started thinking,wow, okay, well, I can keep,

(26:37):
quote unquote, pushing ahead,but I might not make it to 50.
I might have all this money inmy bank account.
And this is what I wanted tosay when you were talking
earlier.
We pushed through and pushedthrough and you know what?
We have no certainty and almostalways we get some version of
the cosmic kick in the ass,absolutely, absolutely we get

(27:01):
the pandemic, we get the illness.
We lose somebody we love.
Absolutely we get laid off.
Life does not go the way weexpected.
We have no control.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
We have no control over that.
It will kick you in the ass.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Well, yeah, so again what I'm paying forward and why
I love I Quit so you Don't haveTo, which is, by the way, a line
I landed on only in the pastcouple of years, and I left
hardly eight and a half yearsago.
It's really because I realizedthis journey, like really

(27:37):
because I realized this journey,like soulbatical, is not a way
of leaving it's a radical way ofleaving.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Right, so it's not a quit, this is not a.
Quit your job and go set up aflower stand coffee shop type,
by the way, nothing wrong withthose, because I love flowers
and I love coffee but this isbigger and much deeper than that
.
Right?
You're not.
You're not going around tellingpeople like hey, quit your job

(28:01):
and becoming an entrepreneur atblah, blah, blah, blah, like
that's not, that's, that's notwhat this is.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
And I always say, when people hire me to speak, I
always say there are going to bepeople there say like please
don't, please don't encourageour people to quit, and I always
say there's a line in my talk.
I say I am not telling you toquit your job, I'm inviting you
to quit defining success in away that's no longer serving you

(28:30):
.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I love that, but can I just say, don't you find it
interesting how scared leadersare of saying don't tell people
to quit their jobs?
Not because the reality is?
And this is why I think yourmessage is so profound?
Is it's not about your work atall?
Right, that's not it.
And that's the opportunity forleaders, isn't it Of helping we

(28:56):
come to these places of workwhatever we do, and they, you
know, they pay us and they doother social things for us.
But I am always fascinated ofthe fear of as if, like, my
words are going to somehow makesomebody get up and like, throw
their like and just say, okay,I'm walking out the door and now
I'm going to go move to Bhutanand study Buddhism.

(29:17):
Do you know what I mean Again,and so I'm just it's.
It shows you, like, the fear ofpeople saying like, hey, if
people wake up, if people getmore awake and I do believe in
the word woke, I'm just going totell you that if people do get
more like, would they not choosethis place anymore?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Right, it's fascinating, because I mean,
unless you and I are once againone million percent on the exact
same page and I always say,like first of all that person,
who's going to make that choice,they've already made that
decision exactly they, as yousay that that didn't happen
because they heard a one youknow 40 minute keynote.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Like these people.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yes, they were in process.
Keynotes too likely in yours.
The data tells us that thesepeople we are speaking with, and
likely some of the same peoplewho are listening to this
podcast right now, they'reburned out at different levels.
We are in the midst of a mentalhealth crisis.

(30:30):
The Gallup engagement scoresare the lowest.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's crazy.
The Gallup data is crazy yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
So you look at the data and it's telling us we have
a problem.
And so it goes back to thatline.
You read from the Rebel LeadersManifesto in the very, very
beginning, this human beings,reminding ourselves that we are
human beings and not humandoings.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Human doings yeah, they're human beings and not
human doings.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Human doings yeah, this is one of the reasons I
fell in love with Brene Brown'swork so early on, because she
was trying to help us understandthat we went from this
industrial age into thisknowledge age and that we need
to make our way to thisheart-led age as leaders where
we are more courageous andvulnerable.

(31:15):
Vulnerable and we can be ourhuman selves because frankly
that's what sets us apart fromthe machines and the ai and
everything that we're talkingabout right now.
And I just don't believe in thehustle and grind, and that's
not because I'm not in corporate.
I'm yeah how I can see soclearly how burned out and

(31:37):
stressed out I was as a leaderand as a human.
I was not showing up as my mostpowerful badass self.
I was not showing up in anyrole in my life alive and
aligned and energized, andultimately, that's what my work

(31:58):
is about, because I believethat's the like.
We can show up that way.
That's how we have ripples ofimpact in our own lives and our
own businesses and in the worldat large.
And the more people, the moreof us who are making these
choices, the more impact wechoose to surround ourselves

(32:19):
with.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
I'm thinking about the fact that you are using the
word soul very openly and youtalk about choosing soul over
salary.
I have a dear friend who's CEOand he openly talks about soul
work Like this is my soul work,I'm doing this.
He's an incredible human beingand so I am fascinated by the

(33:03):
fact that many leaders, like theones who are sort of out on
their edge right, they're ontheir growth edge openly talk
about, embrace, soul work, sotalk about the choice and
intentionality, to use that term, and I'm curious, like what the

(33:24):
reaction has been, as you've,as you've been talking, you know
, all this time and maybe whatthe or maybe what the evolution
has been, because we're livingin a different time from when
you started, from like eightyears ago, right Eight years ago
, leaving Harley to now I canimagine there's been a real
shift also in sort of attitudesaround sort of that concept.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
All of it.
Nobody was even talking aboutburnout.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
We just started talking about burnout like I
don't know, like probably aroundthe pandemic.
When all this were, everybodywas ready to collapse.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, from, I was gonna say all the things like
none of us remember the worldbefore the pandemic.
So I feel like I called thembefore time.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Shall I call them?
I called them before times.
It's the before time totallywell.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
So it has been an evolution, and I feel like we
can fill three hours on thisquestion alone, and so I will.
I'll give you a few highlights.
It is you used language that Ithink is so spot on when you
were talking about progressive,who understand that you know

(34:40):
looking at their leaders ashuman beings, more humanity and
well-being and soul into theircultures, into their teams, is
the future of work.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
I 100% believe this.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
And it's still a very small population of the
corporate world, for sure, Ithink it's starting to shift and
if I'm brutally honest and youknow me, that's the only way I
know.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
I was going to say are you going to do anything
else?
But okay.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, authenticity is tattooed on my forearm and for
anybody who need a little mantrafor the day, it says
authenticity is the truest formof rebellion.
I believe that I live into thatevery single day.
So this is truly rebel, for isyou're rebelling for who you are

(35:39):
, and so, if I tie that to yourquestion around soul, it has
been an evolution.
Originally my, so my book hasthe word soul in it.
I mashed up this crazy wordcalled soul radical because I
had no other way to.
When I made the choice to leaveHarley and I made an proactive

(36:01):
on my own choice to walk away,everybody thought I was crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
I'm sure they thought you were crazy.
Yeah, they were.
Like you're crazy, what are youdoing?

Speaker 2 (36:08):
And the chorus of shoulds was so loud that I
almost gave up on myself.
I almost just said stay.
And so, in order to tell theworld what I was doing in a way
that felt a little bit morequote unquote sane, because
that's what the world, you know,the world was telling me, this
was insane.
I knew in my heart and soulthis journey was what I had to

(36:32):
do, and even if three or six or12 months later I was back in a
corporate role, that was okay.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, so be it.
Right, so be it.
It was your choice, you madethe choice.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, but in that moment it was soul and
sabbatical.
I mashed together to say I'mgoing on this journey to
reconnect with myself, to answerthese really scary questions
about who am I?
What is my Shelly Paxton scriptof success?
What if Shelly Paxton was themost iconic brand I could ever

(37:04):
lead?
And that didn't necessarily meangoing out on my own.
What it meant is I had stood inthe shadows of these iconic
global brands for a very longtime and I got really
comfortable there, and I think alot of us get really
comfortable in whatever shadowswe're living in right now to

(37:42):
step out and think of yourselfas iconic, as meaningful, as
impactful as I mean.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
I say brands because you and I were advertising
people.
We're marketers.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
What's your version of that language?
And that started to reallyshift things for me.
And the soul language has beena fascinating journey because at
first I started talking aboutthis idea of where soul meets
success.
That's what one of my firstkeynotes was called, and it was

(38:05):
a tough sell.
It was it's essentially thesame message that people love
today, but having soul lead wasa tough one, so I have started
to honestly Trojan horse my wayin this was advice I was given
along the way, where people arevery receptive to soul Once you

(38:26):
warm them up.
Once I tell my story when theysay how vulnerable I'm willing
to be, and that what soul reallymeans.
This isn't woo, woo, this isright, it's not religious.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
It's not religious, it's, yeah, yeah, it's not, it's
not.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Let's all go commune in Bhutan, even though I would
love to go.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
I would like I really we should go to Bhutan together
, actually if they're going toif they're allowing Americans in
, we those.
There are places that don'twant us anymore, shelly.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
And sadly I understand we do.
I call myself a global citizen,so that breaks my heart.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
You might only be able to go to, like I don't know
, some small town in Texas.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay, no, run top of it.
Run.
Feel like there's a growingappetite for it and so it is
still at the heart of my work.
And at the same time, I don'tpunch people with it like right
from the get go, because if Ilose you by saying soul, whether
it's in the title of my keynoteor the intro to the
conversation, that I've lost youon a much bigger idea, a much

(39:52):
more powerful transformation.
That really is about how wethink about success, how we
shape our cultures, how we canbe more human in the way that
we're showing up and like livethe lives we want to live,
create the world we want to livein right, leave it for

(40:14):
generations to come in a waythat feels good and, you know,
choose things like pause overpush give ourselves a beat.
Busyness is not a badge of honor.
And I just realized that therewere so many kind of core
tenants to my work.
Kind of core tenets to my workyeah, All souls at the center of

(40:39):
them.
I don't want people to getstuck on that word.
Yeah, yeah, so I ease everybodyin, especially in bigger
corporate audiences.
I don't know, does that answer?

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, it does, and I think because you, this
invitation that you're puttingout, there is again an
invitation for people to reallylook inward and have deep gain,
deep self-awareness, and thenalign their lives with that and
then to truly understand what itis that is aligned with their

(41:13):
values, which is something thatI think is incredibly important.
I talk a lot about that as wellValues, impact, and then also
what is removing those mentalmodels of the shoulds, which I
love, and saying, okay, what isthat, what is me Like, who am I,
what is me and that is.

(41:35):
I think that's a message thatanyone can take, uh, uh, take,
take to heart, shelly, I reallydo.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah Well, and let's make it super practical, because
the one thing that I amcommitted to doing is not making
this all feel so lofty andphilosophical and theoretical,
that you just go, yes, someother day.
I don't got any time for that.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
And I understand that .

Speaker 2 (42:05):
I understand like we have choices to make every day,
and so one of the things that'sbecome more of a centerpiece of
what I do when I'm on stage andin rooms is I'm holding up a
packet of orange post-it notes.
You can pick whatever colorlights you up.
Pick your favorite damn color.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I'm going to look in my drawer, in my handy, really
organized desk drawer.
I'm going to pick up my pinkpost-it.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Okay, oh, that just matches perfectly with what
you've got, okay.
So, and for everybody at homeor wherever you are right now,
pick your favorite color post-itnote.
These are going to become yourpermission slips.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Ooh.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Because here's what I've realized as my work has
evolved and as I've beensearching for my own ways to do
this work.
We were never taught to giveourselves permission.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I'm writing this down , my permission slip.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yes, so when I am going to give you the permission
question that you can askyourself every morning, I still
do this as a morning practice.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
What's my permission question?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
But let me.
But context is really important, and so one of the things as I
was thinking how do we unlockthese shackles of should when
we're starting to realize allthe places in our lives where
we're shitting all overourselves?
Okay, you said shitting.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
We're shitting all over ourselves.
We're shitting all overourselves.
Okay, I caught you.
I was like well, anyway, we'reshitting all over ourselves.
I give myself permission tostop shitting all over myself.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
That is a macro one that should be on everyone's
bathroom mirror and refrigeratorand laptop every single day.
I'd be like please do that.
And I think what's really,what's really important is, you
know, we were always taught likeat least our generation.
When you were in school, it waslike oh they, the teacher
writes you a hall pass.
The authority gives youpermission, your parents give

(44:09):
you permission, and somewherealong the way, no one taught us
that we get to give ourselvespermission, and to me, this is
one of the greatest unlocks ofthe shackles of should is that
you get to give yourselfpermission every day for what
you want and what you need.
And so here's the question Askyourself this in just three to

(44:30):
five minutes max every morning.
So please don't tell me youdon't have time to do it right.
Minutes max every morning.
So please don't tell me youdon't have time to do it right.
It is what do I need to givemyself permission to do, not, do
and or feel in order to show upas my most badass self today,

(44:53):
or my most powerful self today?
If the badass language doesn'twork for you, what do I need to
give myself permission to do,not, do and or feel in order to
show up as my most badass selfand write yourself one of these,
10 of these, 10 of these, 15 ofthese.

(45:15):
There is no shame in thewallpaper game.
I often have orange post-itnotes all over my house and I
encourage it, and it is a smallyet hugely impactful way to
remind yourself.
Some days.
It's like I have one right now.
This is one of them I wrotethis morning.
It says play play because thishas been a big theme for me.

(45:38):
Like have fun let yourself, beyou like, smile, joke, find the
levity.
This is big work and it canfeel super serious and at the
same time it's like wear yourbig fucking ring, like swear
when you wear it.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
We both love it.
We like the blingy jewelry,don't we?
Yes, yeah, we have a verysimilar accessory game, which is
the other reason why I was likeI'm really going to like her
because I love her necklace andwe're like Dylan Lex.
Is that Dylan Lex?
Shout out to Dylan Lex?

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Bonded over shoes.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Glasses, all of it.
Glasses.
Eyelashes, our love of strippereyelashes.
Yeah, caterpillar strippereyelashes.
These are looking fabuloustoday.
I just got them done.
I just got them done.
I did not want to show up oncamera looking at because I knew
you were going to look fly.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
And I was like I cannot have raggedy ass
eyelashes.
Well, I love that I almostalways have orange nail polish
on and I'm like, oh my God, Ifeel so naked today, so at least
I've got my, but you know what?

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Okay, but we'll talk back to your.
So, like one of the things Iused to not I used to feel
guilty about, like all thethings we're laughing about I
used to feel guilty about takingtime out to like, get my nails
done every other week, get mylashes done I'd be like God,
that's like just like, is thatreally?
Do I really need to spend thatkind of money?
Like is that?
Like I know I can afford itmostly, but like, do I need to

(47:14):
do that?
Like it seems so self-indulgent.
I was like no, I like to lookpretty.
I like you know, I like theclass, I like you know.
And so I it was probably a fewyears ago I said these are the
things that I do that make mehappy.
I do these things for myselfbecause they make me happy.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Period.
It is.
It's part of who am I, it'spart of who I am.
It's like part of who I am.
Yep, my sister says to me allthe time, because we could not
love my sister dearly and we'resuper close and we could not be
more opposite, and she alwayssays it is very expensive to be
shelly youard.
You know what it doesn't mean Ispend a million dollars.

(47:55):
No, I just what lights me up?
Lights me up what I care aboutand honestly, this is you know,
I really do believe in this ideaof, like you know how Beyonce
has her Sasha Fierce?
Oh, yeah, it's her alter ego.
She steps into, yeah, I reallybelieve that part of me stepping
into who I am every day.

(48:15):
And the badass, because Ibelieve you can't be a badass if
you're burned out.
So I am not going to Right.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Badass and burnout do not go together.
They don't, they don't, theydon't go together.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Writing myself permission slips, and I do.
I write myself permission slipsto like find the signature
jewelry.
I don't buy a ton of it and itdoesn't come from Tiffany's.
No, nothing against Tiffany's.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .

Speaker 2 (48:37):
I just want the stuff that looks like me Totally.
And yeah, I do the eyelashesevery two weeks.
And I do the nails, because Ialways paint them orange,
because it's my color and itjust makes me smile because
nobody walks around the fuckingstreets with orange on their
nails and toes.
That's kind of true.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
I was going to ask you about the orange.
What's the deal?
Where did the orange?
Because you have orange allover the place.
It's on your website.
You wear it.
I was wondering if orange had aspecial meaning for you.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Orange has always been my favorite color,
increasingly so over the years.
It was ironic.
The question I get most oftenis did you fall in love with
orange because you worked forHarley?
Because Harley's color?

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, I didn't think about that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
No, no and.
But I think it's a very commonthing.
But the thing is, I've alwaysloved orange.
That was coincidence, and avery happy coincidence that I
got to have more orange in mylife.
That was coincidence and a veryhappy coincidence that I got to
have more orange in my life.
And then, as I left and I foundmy way on this journey, I just
gravitated because to me Ithought wow, what color is more

(49:43):
bold and brave and badass thanorange?
You can't hide in orange,orange can't hide, orange stands
out.
Orange is a bright light,orange is sort of a magnet, a
drum.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
It's hot, it's fire.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Since then, and because people see orange all
over in my life it's in my house, like you said, it's in my
business, on my website I havenow had people telling me either
their favorite colors orange orlike creative colors, like
color theory and creativity saythat orange is also like a color
of creativity.
It's um, all these differentthings.

(50:22):
I've learned so much aboutorange along the way.
that has only reinforced my lovefor it, and so I just I keep
leaning in, but to me I do lovethat, Like you can't hide from
orange and so much about my workis like showing, like
successful is being alive andaligned and energized in your

(50:43):
life and in your leadership,which means you're radiant Right
, and orange to me is radiant,but choose your color.
I'm not saying fall in lovewith orange.
I'm explaining why I love it andwhy I lean into it, but let
your favorite color be that foryou every day and find something
that feels a little edgy, thatis, you know, ensures that you

(51:06):
can't hide, play small, becausewhen more of us start showing up
this way, it's like that tallpoppy syndrome they talk about
in Australia and the UK, I think, where you know they don't want
one poppy to be taller than theothers to pop ahead Like people
, look at it and go wait, what'swrong with that person, Like
who is she?

(51:26):
Who is he to do that thing?
And they want to like, squashit back down and I'm saying, be
the tall poppy.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Be the orange.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I feel there like there's a whole.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthe tall poppy.
This is my next podcast.
Well, maybe it's about be theorange, or maybe it's my next
talk, but I think there issomething about like orange is
representative of something somuch bigger and more important.
On this same topic right usreally shining and embracing our

(51:55):
truth, and it is bold and braveand badass.
And if you're the orange inleadership, if you're the orange
in life, what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well, I think to me, I also, so one.
I love how you talk about whyit's meaningful for you, and I
think we all have like find anartifact, find a thing that is
representative of who you are.
But you also said somethingelse that's really important
that I want our listeners tocatch, which is you said pick
something that like, pick acolor where you can't, like you

(52:24):
can't hide right, like you can'tbe small, that you can be the
fullest version of yourself, andthat's a really that's also a
learned behavior.
That's also we have to unlearnsome things around being small,
around adopting other people'ssuccess, track success stories

(52:45):
and figuring out what are thosethings that make me shine.
And so I love the invitationthat you're giving to our
listeners.
My color, by the way, ischartreuse.
I am obsessed with the colorchartreuse green, lime green, I
love it, I love it, love it,love it.
It's like my absolute favoritecolor.
There's like pops of iteverywhere in my house and I

(53:06):
have it in my business.
I love that color, but it is,it's bold, it's like kind of
edgy, and so I hope that ourlisteners who are listening to
this are like now saying like,oh, you know, like what's that
thing that?
Because once you know who youare right getting back to sort
of what you said at thebeginning, shelly like who am I?
Like, once you start to reallyuncover that all of a sudden,

(53:28):
these things reveal I believethey reveal themselves too it's
like you don't have to go and belike, okay, what's my favorite
color?
Like you'll start to find thatlike, oh, I like.
I feel most like myself when Ilook like this or when I I'm in
these kinds of environments, andthat is why I have these really
long eyelashes strippereyelashes and I'm always wearing
lip gloss.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
That is one of the reasons I love it and I just
have to say I'm not good atshameless plugs, but I am going
to say this because if you'relooking for other really simple
exercises to start digging intothe who am I and what are the
things that light me up anddrain me and getting deeper into

(54:08):
your values and all of that,please check out my book.
It's available in audio book.
It's available in hardback.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
And we're going to link to it too, in the show
notes as well.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Paperback, all the formats.
So there's so much more thanwe're able to talk about here.
I think, it's really importantthat I don't leave you hanging.
This isn't like, oh, I justtalk about how great life is and
all of the journey I've been onand all the things.
The reason I wrote this isRenee Brown has an unbelievable
quote that I'm going to probablybutcher right now, but it's the

(54:41):
idea that we share our storiesso that they can become somebody
else's survival guide.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, yeah, it's like the testing, right, it's like
that.
It's the test, it's a testimonythat can save somebody else.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Yeah, and so please like, share your story.
Like, do not it it.
I do this work and I show up inthese conversations not because
I love you, because I do it foryou.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
It's also like part of your mission, right Like?

Speaker 2 (55:11):
I want all of us to not feel so alone, because the
aloneness and the emptiness thatI felt when I was in this place
at Harley, thinking I was theonly person going through this,
and again, I feel like we'regetting better at talking about
this.
There are more resources,there's more language for it.
But I kind of had to blaze myown trail, creating my own

(55:34):
language and tools and concepts,and so I share a lot of that to
help you navigate through thisas well.
So, yeah, and thank you forlinking to it.
I appreciate that I am not goodabout tooting my own horn.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Oh, we got to toot, toot, toot, toot, toot, toot,
toot away.
We give ourselves permission totalk about what we are most
proud of, about what we've doneand what we've accomplished,
Like that is a thing.
I think that's a permissionthat most women especially I
think it's probably not justwomen, only women, but

(56:07):
especially women we don't liketo talk about our
accomplishments Right what we'vedone and plug ourselves, plug
our businesses.
This is a perfect segue.
We don't like to talk about ouraccomplishments right, what
we've done and plug ourselves,plug our businesses.
This is a perfect segue,shelley, and so one.
I just have to thank you forbringing this energy and your
vibrance and your humor and yourwarmth and also the
accessibility to like a lot of.

(56:29):
There are a lot of people whotalk along these kinds of lines,
and I think there should bemore women, especially because
we have a perspective.
I think that brings the headand the heart together, and I
think you've done somethingreally special, which is you've
brought the head and the hearttogether and I think people will
enter into wherever they are intheir journey in terms of

(56:54):
self-discovery and theircontinued path.
They're going to find somethingfor themselves in your book,
and so can't wait to share moreof it.
Okay, but now we get to thelightning round, where we let it
rip, because this is wherethings can become unhinged
sometimes, but we have the mostfun.
This is where things can becomeunhinged sometimes, but we have

(57:16):
the most fun.
So, yeah, being unhinged islike something that I
particularly like.
My first question for you isthree books you would recommend
to our listeners and we'vetalked about your book.
Tell us the title again.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yes, my book Soulbatical, A Corporate Rebel's
Guide to Finding your Best Life.
So yes, if you haven't read itor listened to it, yes, read it.
That's one.
Yes, okay, two other books youwould recommend Okay, so one
that I read recently, and I hadthe honor of interviewing the
New York Times bestsellingauthor for her Chicago book
launch of this book.
It's called the Wild why.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
And her name is.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
The author is Laura Munson.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Okay, we're going to link to that in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Oh my God, it was one of again.
Just like meeting you.
It was one of those momentswhere Laura and I were connected
through mutual friends.
She asked if I would be herthought partner and the
moderator for her Chicago booklaunch event for this book.
She sent me an advanced readercopy of the book and as soon as
I started reading it I was likeno coincidences.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
I got to get this book.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
I'm going to get it.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
I'm going to literally order it as soon as-.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
So good.
It's basically aboutreconnecting with our wonder and
our awe and our curiosity, ourinner child that we, you know,
we lose this playfulness and thecuriosity.
This is a big part of thereason why play is on one of my
permission flips.
So it's reconnecting because wehave, as she calls that, we
have these wonder woo.
So anyway, I know this is thelightning round and we don't

(58:47):
have time to talk about it, butthe wild why?
Is unbelievable?

Speaker 1 (58:50):
okay, what's the third?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
book.
Oh my, my God, so many goodones.
Um, I'm going to stick on thetheme of women.
Uh, the book I'm currentlyreading and I just saw her, uh,
last week in um well concertslash book launch is Suleika
Jawad.
Have you ever read any of her?

Speaker 1 (59:09):
So, between two, kings was the first memoir.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Her husband is John Batiste.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Oh, and they had a wonderful.
Oh okay, I was like wait, Idon't know.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and herjourney is amazing.
American Symphony Amazing.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
We have a link to that documentary on the Netflix
documentary because it's sobrilliant.
Her brand new book is calledthe book of alchemy and it's all
about how creativityspecifically journaling slash
writing in her world, but it canapply to everything.
How creativity is, the is helpsus alchemize.
Our fear, our doubts, ourstuckness are all of it, and

(59:49):
it's really beautiful and it canbe done.
It's a book that can be done asa practice.
So I just gave you stuff at topof mind, but um, these are
awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Okay, Last few lightning round questions best
purchase under $150 that you'vemade?

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Oh my God.
Um, I don't have it in front ofme right now, but I have a
bright orange mug that says I ama fucking ray of sunshine.
It's from a company calledMeriwether.
It's so good I drink out of it.

(01:00:28):
I probably wash it like fourtimes a week.
I alternate it with my Rebel.
Sounds which I created, but Iam a ray of fucking sunshine and
it's bright orange, you saidthat.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
So, like you were, you leaned into it when you said
yes, I am, I'm owning it and itreminds me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
You know, it goes back to our conversation.
It's like some mornings I wakeup and I'm like I'm not feeling
it, and then I put my coffee inthat mug.
And it's like I'm drinking myup and I'm like I'm not feeling
it, and then I put my coffee inthat mug.
And it's like I'm drinking myown courage.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
You're like, let's fucking go, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Let's fucking go.
So yes, $15, best purchase ever, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
This is why I love this question.
Okay, last question, and I wantyou to like, do not overthink
it what is a secret unpopular?

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
opinion that you hold .
Shelly Paxson, oh my God, Ithink I have a lot of them.
I'll give you two that come tomind.
One is cats are evil.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Nobody, no cat people .
Do not DM either one of us.
We don't want to hear it.
I love cats, by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
I do.
I feel like this is a safespace.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
This is a totally safe space.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
There is something about cats that I'm just like
hell no to, so I don't-.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Are you allergic to?

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
them?
Hate me?
No, I just don't like them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
So let me ask you this I hate me, no, no, I just
don't like.
So let me ask you this, becauseI bet, because you hate cats,
do they try to like?
If somebody has a cat, do theylike, try to like, come up and
like, rub up against you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
and sometimes we I always just feel like they're
like secretly trying to stare medown and hiss at me and putting
up a certain energy around them.
Cats don't hate me.
I hope that this doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I don't think it will not.
It will not not end ourfriendship.
I cannot say what other peoplewill say, but that is just okay,
that's a good one, that's agood one.
Okay, you said you had two,though, so let's let's hear the
last one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
My other one is probably even more unpopular.
I really think that, like BravoTV is total, it'll fucking
crash and I'm I am like realhousewives.
I it's so fucking bad and Iknow people love it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
People love it people love it, people love it, people
love the house.
Like, yes, I am not a I am nota reality tv person at all, and
the housewives would be at thebottom of my of my list I'll
watch like a cooking show yeah,something like that I'll get
into that, and I am no strangerto a binge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
So, believe me, this isn't coming from a righteous
place of I don't watch TV.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
No, you just think Bravo is trash.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Bravo is trash, so Cats are Evil and Bravo is trash
.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
You know what?
These are really good.
I think these have catapultedto the top popular opinions.
One of our guests was likemovies are horrible, and we were
both like what.
My guest host and I were likewhat she's like yeah, movies are
terrible.
It's so interesting, it givesyou a little window into so

(01:03:31):
anyway, I just so again to ourlisteners do not DM us about
Bravo or cats.
We don't want to hear it.
This is her, this is Shelly'sand it's why we call it
unpopular opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Exactly, and also this is a safe space.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
It is, and it is a safe space.
We have to be able to speak ourtruth.
I'm being vulnerable andspeaking my truth, and we have
to speak our truth.
So, shelley, this has been suchan amazing time, but I want to
give you the last word.
Is there any sort of thought orinsight or idea you want to

(01:04:10):
leave our listeners with beforewe break?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Oh, my God, you know what?
Because I have it in front ofme.
I created all of this languageand I want to read the
definition of how I think aboutsuccessful, the definition I
wrote, and when I say successful, I mean F-U-L-L.
Full yeah, Like how do you feelfull and not empty, and so I
want to leave you with this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Reach us out with that.
This is perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Yeah, courageously, define success on your own terms
and in a way that feelsfulfilling and energizing from
the inside out.
It's impact in the world, noton your well-being in the world,
not on your wellbeing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Shelly Paxton, thank you for the gift of this
conversation today.
I appreciate you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Oh ditto, sister love you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Thanks for listening to Ungovernable Women.
Our producer and editor isMegan King.
Our social media manager isDestiny Eicher.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
You can follow and DM us onInstagram at ungovernablexwomen,

(01:05:27):
and TikTok atungovernablexwomen.
See you next time.