May 9, 2025 • 42 mins
Portia welcomes Tracey Cesen, Founder & CEO of Forever Human.ai, for an inspiring conversation about her journey as a tech entrepreneur. Tracey reflects on how a deep-rooted desire to serve has guided her from the beginning of her career, and continues to shape her leadership today. She opens up about the challenges and insights gained as a young working mom with a growing family, and how those experiences have strengthened her approach to leading with optimism, empathy, and purpose.
Have a question or comment? Email us at ungovernablewomen@gmail.com.
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Tracey Cesen on LinkedIn
Forever Human.ai’s Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of
Ungovernable Women, formerly theManifesta Podcast, the
lifestyle and career podcast foraspiring women.
Our new name reflects ourmission to reach even more
listeners with stories of womenwho are breaking boundaries and
redefining success.
I have a favor to ask you, Ifyou haven't done so already,
please rate and subscribe to thepod.
(00:21):
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, it boosts our rankings
and helps more people discoverus.
Thanks for tuning in.
Welcome to Season 5 ofUngovernable Women, the career
and lifestyle podcast foraspiring women ready to break
barriers.
I'm Portia Mouw and I'mthrilled to be back with my
co-host, Tiffany Waddell-Tate,CEO of Career Maven Consulting.
(00:43):
We've got a new name, but ourmission remains stronger than
ever helping women find theirpurpose, lead high-impact
careers and meaningful lives.
This season will bring you thestories of women who forged
their own paths to success.
It's our time to shine.
Let's dive in.
I am so delighted to welcomeTracy Sesson to the pod.
(01:06):
Tracy is founder and CEO offoreverhumanai and, Tracy, you
and I met a few years ago atConstellation Research's CCE
conference.
So I have to give a shout out toRay Wong because he always puts
the most interesting peopletogether who are doing really
(01:29):
cool, just impactful work in theworld, and so it's a great tech
and innovation conference andliterally everybody you meet at
this conference is doing greatwork you want to connect, learn
from and be friends with, andTracy was one of those people
for me Also, there were very fewwomen at the conference that we
were at too, so I was like, oh,there's another woman there,
(01:50):
but I just really really enjoyedmeeting you, and before
founding Forever Humanai, tracyhad a long successful career as
a tech CEO, innovator andoperator, and you're going to
find the link to her LinkedInprofile company website in the
show notes, so check her out.
She's also the mom of Tracy.
(02:11):
Do I have this right?
Eight kids, eight, count them,count them.
And I think when you and Ifirst met, you had just had your
.
Was it baby seven or baby eight?
Baby eight, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Baby eight I'm done.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Now I'm done.
Listen.
I mean I'm like she was there.
She was there, she was at theconference, which was like
totally badass because you werealso on a panel, like you were
speaking, you had the baby.
I think your husband was theretoo, like doing some backup.
There was a couple of kids likekind of like coming in and
(02:47):
coming out.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I only had one with me at the conference.
Okay, yeah, I was there theyear before, when I was on a
bunch of panels and I was 39weeks pregnant.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Lord.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I basically looked like I had a baby on me, oh, my
Lord, and anytime, like I had myteam member with me at any time
, he was ready to just freak onstage.
And anytime, like I had my teammember with me at any time, he
was ready to just freak on stage.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Those guys must have been so scared to see you walk,
kind of come in, because youknow, like that when you get to
like 39 weeks you're just likeit looks usually like you're
going to explode.
And I have found that, likeevery guy that's not related to
you literally just clears a wideberth because they're so afraid
you might go into labor.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
But you did it.
You did what you needed to do.
Yeah, the guys were great, butthe highlight that year was in
the going back to like raise,the you know miscellaneous and
interesting network which, bythe way, you downplayed your own
um entry into his circlebecause you're an award winner.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes, you get award to get yes, I've Very cool stuff,
so I appreciate that.
I appreciate it.
I'll downplay that, thank you.
Thank you, I'll take it on.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Take it on, Even though she's like more of a tech
and learning design person.
There was a woman there, hername is Janice and she also is
like a lay midwife, and so I wasliterally like I had her room
number written down.
I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I didn't know this.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I'm literally coming to your room.
I was hoping actually.
I thought, well, if I have thebaby here, you're at the Ritz.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It's at the Ritz.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That's exactly right, maybe the baby would get like
Ritz for life for free orsomething.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know what?
You know what?
I really don't think that theRitz would be a bad place to
have a baby, exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You have somebody to clean, right, they bring you
food, food's really good yeah,flying home with a newborn is a
little Not awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It's not awesome.
Stuck at the Ritz, you knowwhat.
I think that I could imagineworse things.
So we're going to dig into howyou pivoted to found your own
company, because you just havesuch an interesting career, some
of the lessons that you'velearned along the way, and
obviously we have got to talkabout how you're doing all this
(04:53):
with eight kids.
But what I have found is thatthe more kids you have, the more
just, fabulous you happen to be, and I have yet to meet an
entrepreneur who's a mom, who'snot, like a total badass.
So I'm super excited for thatconversation.
But first of all, let's jumpinto some basics.
Tracy, where does this podactually physically find you?
Because I know when we weregetting in the green room, you
(05:16):
had this insane like delayed.
You were traveling and you gotin at like this crazy hour.
So like, where are you now?
Like, did you make it home orare you still in at like this
crazy hour?
So like, where are you now?
Like, did you make it home orare you still in the?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
airport somewhere I did make it home.
I'm very happy this is my homeoffice.
It has this little sign thatsays what you love for like a
really long time in my career.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So I'm back there, I'm home.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So, yeah, I mean, look, one of the things, when
you're trying to balance yourlife and you know this, you're a
mom, right is you do crazythings when you travel like you
do crazy shit all the timebefore.
Right, you get up at 3 am andyou take that early flight.
Yeah, why do we do?
That to ourselves, because wewant to be here for the kids,
you know, and so sometimes it'ssmart and sometimes it's
incredibly stupid, but I cantell you, last night I was like
I don't care what happens I wantto get home.
(05:56):
I don't care how late it is, Ijust didn't.
Sometimes you're just like now.
I'm home for a whole day, right, instead of?
Even obviously it ended upbeing like it was four o'clock
when I went to sleep.
It's like three o'clock when Igot home, but anyway, but still.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
You look amazing.
You're like, glowing, like Iwould never know that you were
sleep deprived.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I mean, I'm kind of an expert, but I do also have
this coffee right here.
So I was like I have, Iphysically live, so I live in
the Pittsburgh suburbs, but youknow part of living in
Pittsburgh like it's a greatplace to live, it's a great
place to raise a family.
I also travel a lot and I havefor like a really long time, and
so it's.
I feel like it's in many waysit's a best of both worlds kind
of life.
You know, I get to go to a lotof really cool interesting
places, different cities hangout with a lot of cool people,
(06:41):
but then I also have a reallyawesome place to live at home
and a great place to raise afamily.
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I love that, and I think what that says to me is
you've made some choices to kindof design a life that works for
you, and that's something thatour listeners, I think, are
always trying to figure out andlearn from other women of.
Like, how have you, you know,whether you have eight children
or no children, or whateverstage of life you're in is like,
how do you create a life thatworks for you?
(07:06):
I live in North Carolina.
I'm from California, but kindof similar.
It is a place where it's agreat jumping off spot.
It's really good for raisingkids and I also happen to travel
a lot for work too.
But I'm able to get in and outpretty easily and, like you, I
will break my neck to get homebecause I like to make the
(07:27):
practices, go to the games andall that stuff.
So, tracy, give us a little bitof your backstory.
Like, what should we know aboutyou?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I know it's a big question, but you know like what
makes you you?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
What makes you you?
I think these are things.
I do know, some things that Ithink make me unique.
I think the first one is youknow you already brought up the
kids, but I think obviously it'slike very having kids is always
like a seminal moment, like nomatter when it happens.
I know a little bit about yourstory, but in my particular case
, I was a super young mom, so Ihad my first child when I was 16
years old and I was verygrateful to get to raise her and
(08:06):
she was my why in life.
And I will tell you like I meanyou know, I mean there are
amazing people that came aroundme.
There are obviously always somepeople that are going to think
you know, you're an idiot tokeep a baby, you shouldn't do
that, etc.
Etc.
And so she really became my why.
And I would say for sure and Ithink a lot of people are like
starting their career, I hadlike a bit of a chip on my
shoulder because I wanted toprove to people that we could be
(08:29):
successful.
I also was like very driven totake care of her Right.
So I like worked super hard.
I was very fortunate, like Imean.
My story of getting into tech,which I absolutely love, is also
awesome.
I ended up getting hired towork as a developer at Siemens,
what's now Siemens Healthcare,siemens Health Engineer.
It was a company that gotacquired when I was only 20
(08:52):
years old.
The reason why I got hired iswhen I originally was going to
go to nursing school because andthis is one of the things I
think is funny because I wantedto help people.
And you know, think of beingthat age right, how do you help
people?
You'd be like a teacher or anurse or something like that.
And I basically realized, youknow, pretty early on, like the
thing you can do with technologyis you can help people at scale
, you know, and so you know, Irealized I could take the same,
(09:15):
the same skill sets that made megood in like literal clinical
care, like I mean, I was anurse's aide when I was in high
school, right, because I had towork, I had baby take care of
and stuff.
But those same skill sets oflike listening to people,
figuring out what they neededand taking care of them.
Like the crazy thing is youactually can really scale that
with technology.
And I think that's part of thereason why you look at my life
and my bio.
I've always been very userexperience focused.
(09:37):
I never got into like the wholeof falling in love with the
tech.
I will also say that peoplelike me pair really well with
people who are really in lovewith the tech and I had a lot of
those kind of people in mynetwork when I was young.
So that's fortunate, right.
So, you know, to be somebodythat was more user focused,
outcomes focused, together withsomebody who's a deep
(09:59):
technologist like that's areally strong pairing.
And so I had the opportunity to, you know, be in healthcare.
I will say I always wanted tostart my own business, so this
is actually a dream come truefor me.
I look back and I'm like I could.
I actually could have done it along time ago, but I didn't
really understand, how you know.
And so there were differenttimes in my career where I did
freelance work, where I even gotto like subcontracting some
(10:19):
people and I was like, oh, I'mlike almost starting a business,
but you know, you just get into, you have kids, you want to
have a steady income, we boughta house, you know things like
that, and so that that held upthe dream for a while.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So, tracy, can I ask you I just want to just go back
for something because I thinkthis is really interesting Teen
mom really kind of just has alot of hustle and grit and did
was there any why?
And then you go, you know, soyour first big job going into
Siemens, going into tech, whichis kind of like cracks something
(10:54):
open for you.
I'm just curious, did you haveany guides or that's like such a
young age, like a lot of thingsgo right.
You know, there's always astigma with teen moms, I think,
but I also think we have moresupport systems now and it also
is highly reliant on you, theindividual.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And I'm just curious, like, did you have anyone who
like helped you, like guide you,or said hey, listen, yeah, okay
, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean,that's the story of people like
influencing my life is, for sure, the thread throughout my life
and that's like a thing that'simportant to me.
Like I give back to people,there was nobody, that was like
charting my path for me, becausemost of the people that were
encouraging me like they didn'tknow anything about tech you
(11:31):
know.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So I kind of have to.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I learned early on that there's no like Holy grail
mentor that's going to be like.
This is your path, and here I'ma work mom and I'm in tech and
all this stuff.
Those people like literallyalmost didn't exist, right.
But you're looking for thosementors.
But I was really fortunate,right, like there was a teen
parenting program in my highschool and so there were
wonderful women who worked therethat really gave you know,
(11:54):
poured their lives into those ofus that were teen moms and our
kids, right.
So there's literally a daycarein my school Like so was it hard
.
It was super hard, Right, but Imean just.
You know, the logistics ofbeing a mom are complicated, no
matter what age you are.
We all know that In fact, I waslike you're keeping trains on
the track, but like I drove tothe school and dropped my child
off at the daycare in the schooland it's like having on site
(12:15):
daycare when you're like it wasawesome.
So I was really fortunate andthe director of that program,
who's a wonderful woman namedLinda Sheckenbach, definitely
took me under her wing.
There was also a woman who ranour crisis pregnancy center in
that area who took me under herwing.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I still talk to her on a regular basis today.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I can say exactly how many years, but it's been a
really lot of years, and thenobviously my oldest kid's age
you can figure it out.
So for like 100%, there are somany people that encourage me.
And I think of the things thatlike helps people be successful
is you have to, because therewere a lot of moments of
discouragement from actual likeactually people's being
(12:53):
discouraging, but also just lifewas like so hard, everything
was so hard all the time.
But like you learn, I meanessentially I'm an optimist and
I looked on the bright side so Ididn't think about the hundred
things that went wrong.
I looked at the one thing, like, okay, you know, everyone got
dropped off.
Okay, you know, I got to holdher before I had to go to class
or go to work or whatever.
(13:14):
Or she's having a good timewith, you know, her aunt or
grandparents or whatever while Iwork.
So I learned, like very quickly, to not dwell on the negative,
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Oh, I love that, I love that, I love that and you
know, I think it.
It explains a lot of kind oflike what I saw in you when I
first met you, Cause I was likethis is a woman who's like on
her shit and like you have,that's very generous, you have
that.
Well, no, I mean, you've justgot that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
You've got that level you have that sort of that aura
, if you will, and I'm so youkind of alluded to it, but I'm
curious, what do you think aresome of the qualities or
(14:00):
characteristics of yours thathave been most important for you
?
You know, at this point in mycareer were really?
I came at everything I did withan attitude of service.
Especially early I was justlooking for how to help people.
It was like in my DNA.
I was always kind of like that.
I was like the helpful kid.
If my parents would ask forsomething, I would.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Are you the oldest kid, are you the oldest child,
or like, where are you in thebirth?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
order.
I'm one of the.
I hate the birth order thingbecause I have so many kids, but
like there is a little bit ofthat.
So it's my dad's oldest and Iwas the middle child.
My cause I have a half brother,um, so I think I actually have
the characteristics of both,like the oldest and the middle
child.
So, yeah, I'm kind of apeacemaker, but also, you know,
I was definitely encouraged bymy dad to, you know, get out
(14:40):
there.
So I think I have optimism.
Thing is really important.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Second, that attitude of service.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And then the third was like I was always learning
right and so part of my storythat you know, I don't, I
actually still don't love totell is that I never finished
college.
You know which is crazy.
Like to give you an idea ofwhat the expectations were.
I mean, like my grandmother wasa college graduate, right, and
so when I didn't finish school,it was, it was a big deal, like
(15:10):
I dropped out and dropped outand went back so many times.
I mean, I don't even know if Icould trace all the places where
I have college credit because Iwas always trying to go back,
right.
But like looking back at myselfbeing younger now with empathy,
I was working full time.
I was typically also doingfreelance work and teaching
myself.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You're a parent, you were a parent.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Right, yeah, exactly, I had children a child and then
more and more right.
And then the other thing isbecause of the nature of my work
.
So I jumped right onto the webtraining when it was brand new
and so it was changing all thetime.
And so at night I would go homeafter work and I would teach
myself stuff and I would dothese contract projects to learn
(15:48):
.
And then I would go to work allday and I had kids to take care
of.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So, anyway, I was always learning and it also put
you in a mode, especially, Imean, look, now there's like a
bunch of headlines oh, googledoesn't require a degree, et
cetera, et cetera, which is,like you know, great.
We should actually a hundredpercent acknowledge that tons of
learning happens outside theclassroom.
In fact, it's like insane tothink that wouldn't be true.
Right, like they have all thisstuff, kids learn before they
even go to school.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Most of your learning .
Most of your learning happensright outside of a classroom.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
If you think about it , that sentence is like somewhat
controversial when you're inyour early twenties, right, it's
sounds silly, right?
Because if you don't have adegree so for me I was always I
always had to work harder, I hadto prove myself, I had to go in
as a contractor.
I couldn't get hired as an FTEbecause it's even bachelor's
degree or even a master's degree, and so I like really developed
(16:37):
that skill of like provingmyself, driving value, learning
quickly.
Of course, you know, I'm sothankful that we kind of got to
grow up in the years we did,because there's so much access
to information, right, but likeat the time I would go to Barnes
and Noble or Borders after workand I would buy these like
super fat books and you'd putlike CD-ROM and then learning
new programs.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I remember that so definitely always.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Learning new things is like very much in my DNA and
luckily, like I was, I alwaysloved to read.
I was always like sort of acurious kid, so I just took that
energy and put it towardstechnology and then later
business.
I didn't really read on othertopics for years and years
because I, just like you know, Igave up fiction.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
You know just very was very practical, so you.
So I think there's a couple ofthings that really strike me
then.
So one is I love that you'vetalked you've talked about
optimism a lot, and I thinkthat's really important, right,
right, we will have adversity.
That it is, it is a given.
We are going to experienceadversity.
But believing you can getthrough it, believing that like
there's something better on theside having, I definitely relate
(17:45):
to being an optimist as well.
I also really resonate with thiscontinuous learning, because
that is the world we live in now.
So the idea that you're goingto go to school and then just
that's it, is not a thinganymore.
I also really appreciate thatyou have you talked about not
finishing college.
So a couple of things.
One is I think more and more,that is a choice for young
people, whether it's financiallymotivated or whether it's just
like school's not their thingand they want to jump right into
(18:08):
working.
I feel it's really it's good,and I think it's for those who
are listening, who maybe areearly, like early, early, and
they're like, oh, should I goback and get an associate or
should I go to college?
Like there's lots and lots ofways to get to where you want to
go.
So I just appreciate thatyou've shared that, and I
remember when we were at CCE,you and I and Phil Kamardi
(18:28):
talked about like just what'shappening, like the changing and
thinking around college and youknow, is it necessary or what
do you?
You know, but you're anautodidact too right, like you
are teaching yourself constantly, and I think that's a really
important quality that everyoneshould have is the willingness
and ability to constantly teachthemselves something new.
(18:48):
So, like, like, big up to youfor that, and I think that's
such a great model.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Well, I mean, look, portia, I didn't have any other
choice, right?
Like I said, I was motivated totake care of my kid and I was
like, how do I make more money,how do I take care of her, how
do I provide for her?
But I would also say, you know,I spent some years and that's
you know where Phil and Icrossed paths.
I spent some years in highereducation management.
I got a digital transformationrole, basically, and I will tell
(19:13):
you what really drove me inthat market and continues to.
I've been very fortunate towork with a lot of, you know,
really awesome higher ed clientsin both more traditional
modalities as well as online, aswell as like short courses,
boot camps and things like thatis, it was unnecessarily hard
for me, like when I tell mystory.
I'm not telling it because Iwant anyone to go through what I
went through.
In fact, I look back like thisis so dumb, no-transcript, hello
(20:03):
.
That helps, right.
It helps with studentindebtedness.
It just helps with thepracticalities of life.
It also I mean, you know,fortunately you've led big teams
Having people get into theworkplace sooner helps them
understand the reality.
It helps them apply what theylearn, which is actually the
best way to retain somethingright Like going and learning
learning in sort of a silo,especially when people go for
(20:25):
continuing ed and then theyfinally get into the workplace.
You know, these are super smart, amazing people, but if they
have the opportunity to applytheir learning sooner a lot of
times, it can be reallyeffective.
So I'm pretty passionate aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
But, yeah, like you said, there's many ways to learn
, you know, yeah, it's, well,it's.
I love that you're saying this,it's so.
I have a.
My son is 15 and he wants to,you know, go to college.
But he was like you know, wewere, we were literally talking
today of like, well, he's like,you know, like, could I he's, he
he's thinking about learning atrade in high school, like while
he's still in high school,because, because he has decided
he wants to be a business ownerand he wants to be a business
owner sooner rather than later,and so, and so I love that there
(21:04):
are all these options for kidswhere we use, you know, in the
old days, in the olden days,we'd be like, four-year degree,
go you know, like, just like,and you're going to go to school
.
Then you're going to do like andyou're going to be.
It's going to be verysequential, and now what we're
saying is listen, first of all,figure out what you like and
don't like.
The only way you do that is byactually doing the thing right.
(21:24):
It's not sitting in theclassroom, it's actually going
and trying out some differentcareers.
If you want to go to medicalschool, though, maybe you try to
be a CNA first and you canbecome a CNA and I think, as
late, as early as, like yourlast year in high school, like
there's so many options.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Well, that's a program I took.
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, you can get trained when
you're 16.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, you can get trained when you're 16.
This, I think, is really thekind of the trend, and so it's
just great to talk to someonewho has a real perspective on it
, because I don't think we talkabout it enough and that means
that we don't give kids.
It's about optionality, right?
It's about optionality in yourcareer.
Okay, let's talk a little bitabout so foreverhumanai.
First of all, I love the name.
(22:09):
I think I told you I love thebrand.
I love the branding.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That means a lot coming from an expert like you,
so thank you.
So just tell me a little bitabout like how, what's the
genesis of the company?
So the genesis of Forever HumanAI is?
I had the opportunity to startmy own business and as I was
thinking about what I reallywanted to do which you know this
is it's an interesting time,right.
Like I'm older, I've had a lotof years of experience, I've
(22:33):
seen a lot.
It's like what do I really wantto do?
Years I career in multipledifferent industries.
Working for somebody else,working for somebody else
Working for somebody else andactually like in the corporate
world, which is different thanbeing on the professional
services side.
So I worked in banking,financial services, I worked in
healthcare, I worked ineducation and then I had the
(22:53):
opportunity to come in and helpto grow and run a professional
services consultancy.
That was an awesome time.
My career is there for nineyears, but now I'm like I can do
my own thing.
So I was like, what do I wantto actually do?
So I'm going to take the timeto think through it.
I did an exercise many yearsago.
I don't know if you've everdone this one.
(23:22):
It's like what someone's goingto say, something you know, and
so it was actually an awesomeexercise that I did when I was,
like you know, a team leader andmy team and I did it and I
decided I wanted my tombstone tosay she helped unlock human
potential, because I wanted tobe broad, right, because
obviously being a mom is superimportant to me, but so is the
actual work that we do indigital technology, right, like
making things easier forcustomers, helping unlock new
markets for my clients, likethings like that, and also, of
(23:43):
course, building out teams, likeone of the things that I think
is really awesome.
Right, you bring someone in.
They're less experienced, youstay with them for years and you
coach and mentor them.
I love that too, stay with youor they go on and do it.
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome, right, so you're helping unlock human
potential, and so I knewsomething like that had to be in
my company, and so I was like,okay, well, what I do, I do for
the people.
Right, tech is just my tool set, but I'm just, ultimately, I'm
(24:04):
a people person.
I want to make life better forpeople.
The other thing I noticed wasyou know, people were freaking
out about AI, not that theyaren't still, but you think,
like a year ago.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Oh my God, losingosing it, losing it,
totally losing it, we're losingit right.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And it's still out there right, especially if
you're like me and you spend waytoo much time on X Twitter, you
know.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, I'm not there at all.
So I am not.
I am off of X because I waslike it's, that's enough, Busta.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
There's like great stuff there.
And there's also like there'llbe no jobs.
It's going to be like, yes, ourAI overlords are here, their
overlords are here, exactlyRight, just submit.
Yeah, resistance is futile,right, yeah, exactly.
(24:48):
But like I have a very strongperspective, like, look, ai is
great.
You know, I've been fortunatebecause I've been like on the
bleeding edge of technology formy whole career right and so we
have data science team for yearsand years.
Like you get the potential.
And then you also, justgenerally speaking, right Like
there's lots of technology outthere that people have not been
able to adopt anyway.
(25:09):
Just think about it.
Like, how many people can'teven get a CRM out the door, let
alone all of a sudden we'regoing to audit.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We don't have enough time to even talk about the CRMs
.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I picked that one on purpose for you, but anyway.
So what I really started tothink about is, like people are
scared of this right, and when Ithink about like I want to help
people understand everythingthat we do in my business is in
the service of people and it'ssuper obvious.
We will forever be focused onthe human Forever human.
(25:39):
And making the world a betterplace right.
Leveraging AI, leveraging theServiceNow platform which I just
thought was like an awesomeplatform, again under leveraged
for its potential, not becausethat's a great platform, but, as
you know, you have these greattools.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
but then how do you unlock them for the benefit of
the organization?
Exactly how do you?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
unlock it for the people.
Organizations are just peopleright.
And so that was where I reallywanted to say how do we take
these tools and apply them tomake a difference for people?
So, whether you're makingpeople's jobs easier, you're
helping to create new markets,if you're helping to create
better experiences for customers.
And so I was like this is my,this is my focus forever, you
(26:20):
know.
And so that's how I ended upwith the name of the company.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So this has been.
Are you one year in a littlebit more than a year in One year
?
Yeah, okay, yes, so what's beenthe biggest?
You know people ask me this, soI always love asking the
question like what, what's whatsurprised you when you're in
what's, what's been the biggestsurprise?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I mean, the biggest surprise I had a year in was
everything takes longer than Ithought, oh my.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
God, nobody tells, like I know.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It's like we know this, but then you're oh my God,
yeah, yeah, yeah you reject it.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Everything takes longer, everything literally.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, exactly, but I guess the thing I would say is
the most amazing thing.
And this is.
I would just say this as a wordof encouragement to like
anybody whether you're later inyour career, mid career or, you
know you're very young andgetting started is like this
sounds so stupid but people stopthemselves for all kinds of
reasons, right Like I was at awomen's event yesterday.
(27:17):
I was talking about like wemake our own glass ceilings.
You can just do stuff right.
Like I mean, like I had thisidea and I mean again, think of
the tool sets we have now.
They're like incredible.
I'm like brainstorming the nameof the company and trying to
figure out your own.
Like texting my friend.
Like we're going back and forthand back he's the one that
found the domain and likeactually found one that worked
Right Cause the first one wewanted to use for an available
(27:38):
course.
Like every you know.
And like coming up with thelogo.
I mean you know these aretaking.
It's just like when you youknow we did lots of software
development ideas like thatthey're coming.
Like we're innately creative aspeople yeah so just being able
to take something from idea intoexecution.
If I have one tip for people,this is my opinion.
(27:58):
Okay, I don't know if you would, you well?
Okay, portia, you are amarketing expert, so I have a
feeling you'll vote with me.
One of the very, very firstthings I did was, of course, I
picked the name of the company,but I also did like the logo and
the branding and I orderedbusiness cards.
You know, like I'm going toshow you one, so I have these
business cards.
They're really I think they'rereally beautiful With my
(28:20):
favorite color this with thepurple, it's really beautiful, I
mean.
I work with the designer, right.
So it's like and so my awesomefriend Sarah's company printed
these for me and actually, whenshe printed them for me, she
goes you know, I'm not chargingyou for these.
That's like you said, thepeople helping you along, I'm
like you don't need to notcharge me.
She's like this is myinvestment into your company.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And it's so funny because lots of people don't do
business cards anymore.
My point isn't to say go dobusiness cards, but when you're
like by yourself, this is likethe realest thing I had for my
business.
I had this and I was like, andI was just you had to self coach
yourself all the time.
Portia, I mean, I know you're ahandy in this right, so like
(29:02):
you really become cause if youwait to have time to talk to me
or whatever, like you can'tright.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
You have to just execute.
You just have to do stuff allthe time.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That's right you have to execute all the time.
I have a real business card, soit's a real business.
You can go out.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's a real business.
I have a real business.
I have a real business Right.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, and you know it comes
true's idea.
All of them, every single one,it was just somebody came up
with an idea and those ideas arelike how can I help this person
(29:38):
?
How do I serve this market?
Oh, I don't like how myemployer does this, I'm going to
do this differently.
They're just normal people likeus.
You feel like there's thisother level.
I had the same reaction tomoving into executive management
.
You think you think you'regoing to get in there and like,
all of a sudden, like all thesmart, extra smart people are
going to be in there and likelet's just say they're just
normal, they're normal.
The reaction, by the way, myteam, it's like I'm not that
(30:00):
smart, like why does she get tothis job?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, it's very true.
Risk tolerance, yeah, yeah, youknow what.
That is actually really funny.
You get into, you get to the Icall it to the.
You get to the big table andyou're like this really isn't
that big of a deal.
It's like more stress.
It's like more stress, butyou're like it's not that big of
a deal.
But no-transcript, I knowsooner rather than later, right,
(30:43):
that's the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Portia say that again for the people in the back If
it doesn't work right.
Like one of the things you know, in my previous business I had
the opportunity to work with alot of startups.
Actually, in my company beforethat I worked with a lot of
startups because I was likeinnovation person, you know, and
the sooner you can get youridea and get real reaction to it
.
Like the first thing I did whenI decided to start this
business, I was like justcalling all my friends.
(31:07):
I was like calling my CIOfriends and I was like calling
you know someone?
I knew a few people I knew thatwent to service.
Now Should I start thisbusiness?
You know, I'm like asking forfeedback.
Well, this is my hypothesis.
And then I like wrote down myfour bullet points and I just
started calling people.
I remember, yeah, people Italked to right, but I wanted to
remember right, because I wasjust testing my hypothesis and
(31:27):
tested in production.
And the other thing to realizeand this is my tip as somebody
who spent my whole career infast-moving technology-
Everybody's career is movingfaster and faster and faster all
the time.
But, like I started there andwas always there, right, that's
why I had to study at night tolearn the new thing, because
that's what happens when you'rein tech.
You have to do that.
You always have to do it, whichis just call everything your
(31:49):
current hypothesis right.
Don't get married to anythingright when it comes to your
business.
Right, Like things are going tochange and, of course, you have
to pick your focus and you haveto execute against it.
But you also have tocontinuously horizon scan.
We I mean people can like it ornot like it, but it's actually
just reality.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
This is knowledge, and so keep an open mind.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Like today you're doing a podcast, Like later on
you might be doing I might belike hitting on a VR simulation
together and like maybe we'll gofor like a virtual walk, I need
.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I need real exercise Tracy, not virtual exercise.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I know, I know, yeah, no, no, that's true, yeah, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I, although I did recently buy an under the desk
treadmill because I was like Ican't be sitting all day.
It's like it's dead.
No but it's easy.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
It's super we as entrepreneurs.
It's like, I think, one of thedangers right, because you own
it, it's you and I had a lot ofthis at my previous company.
Right, Because I was at the topof the organization yeah, I was
able to.
It's just like if I do one morething, it will make a
difference.
You know, sometimes it feltlike and I'm not saying this is
always true, certainly notalways but it felt in the
corporate world.
I was like, why would I evenkeep trying?
(32:55):
There were definitely days likethat, yeah, or you're just
waiting on people, but you'renever.
It's easy to sit at your deskand sit there all day and, like
you barely go to the bathroom,maybe you drink some and, of
course, when you finally realize, oh, I've been sitting here
since, whatever, since like 15hours.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Eat chips, eat chips, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Which is why I don't buy chips, because, yes, that is
Can't have it in the house,can't have it in the house.
But I love.
This point here is so importantbecause it's really easy to
overthink things and you'reright.
In corporate, you spend a lotof time waiting on people, you
know, or you have to go and sell.
(33:34):
You know.
You sell one person on the ideaand then it's like okay, we got
to talk to the team, you know.
It's like there's so many layersand it takes a lot and I worked
in manufacturing andmanufacturing it takes like you
work with a bunch of engineers,like it can take a long time
just to get this, becausethere's real impact.
Because there's real, that'sright, exactly Because there's
real impact if it's wrong.
But I think the thing that I'veappreciated and I really am
(33:59):
glad that you're articulating,is like you move faster so you
can learn more and more quickly.
And this part about thehypotheses it's the hypothesis
you have right now, which maychange as you learn more and as
it should change and as you getmore feedback, and I also love.
I want to just kind of flag forour listeners that, like the way
you talked about, like you andI talked you talked to you said
(34:20):
you call a CFO, like that isabsolutely the most important
thing.
It's like you can't DIY thiswith YouTube sitting in your
desk by yourself.
You've got to go out and talkto people who've either done it,
who are doing it, becausethat's going to speed your
learning curve.
And I think for people who areperfectionists or who, like I,
need this to be a hundredpercent baked, it's like no, no,
(34:41):
no, no, no, no.
You're going to like, you'regoing to go as far as you can
see, let it rip and then correctcourse, correct along the way.
So I love that lesson yeah,thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I think figuring out too if you think of your idea,
your company, your business,your market offering, whatever
your product.
I mean, a lot of this comesfrom software product, right?
So the nice thing about notbeing in the same thing is, you
can always ship more and you canbe iterative, but there is
actually a really importantprinciple too of how far do you
go into those experiments beforeyou call them right.
(35:13):
That's like I think a lot oftimes where the bar is oh yeah.
Because you know it's like youtell people you started a
business and start collectingleads, when really what you're
trying to do is just test andsee if there's a market
opportunity.
I mean, I know people have donethat.
That's not my DNA, right?
Do you go that far?
Yeah, yeah, opportunity.
I mean I know people have donethat.
That's not my DNA, right, doyou go that far?
But then you have that on oneside.
(35:34):
On the other extreme you havepeople that, especially in the
technology world, they'redesigning and designing and
designing and they're sitting infront of their own computer
with their own ideas, in somecases not informed by the
marketplace at all, and they gounder where the years go by, and
then they launch their thingand guess what?
The market doesn't want it,right, and so there's no product
(35:56):
market fit.
Yeah, there's no fit I neverlived in a world where I had
that opportunity.
I never got caught up in thatRight.
I was very fortunate that, eventhough I was in technology.
I was in fast moving groups.
I actually worked with embeddedin the marketing team for a
long time, which is funny,because I didn't want to be
embedded in the marketing team.
(36:16):
I was like real developers arein IT.
I learned so much.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, everyone looks down on us, right, and so I
learned I know Everyone justlooks down.
We're just trying to help yousell things, that's all.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
The other thing you learn.
Okay, here's a lesson that Ithink is super important for
people to learn, especially whenthey're more in the back of the
house, whether in technology,manufacturing, et cetera.
One of the things that Ifigured out early on is the
marketing people, thesalespeople, whoever the
go-to-market people are in yourorganization, are not, in fact,
changing things because they areclueless or because they are
(36:48):
trying to torture you, right?
Or because they can't makedecisions.
It is, in fact, because themarketplace is fickle and it
moves very quickly and,depending on what your offer is,
the closer you are to a fastmoving, especially if you're in
a consumer market.
We're consumer like.
We change our minds all thetime, right Like are you
(37:09):
starting to?
brand of outfit, like clothes,whatever so the faster you are,
the closer you are to that and Ithink that when I realized that
, I really took that perspectiveand I would share it with the
IT team and I would share itwith my team so that people,
empathy is the skill right,empathy is the skill.
I have, more than one skillthat I recommend people get.
But empathy and assuming goodintent from people, right, we'll
(37:33):
allow you to.
Then you step in the shoes andsay why is Portia, the crazy
marketing lady, changing hermind again?
Oh, cause she talked tocustomers.
You know the reason why we havea business.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
So we're at the part, you know so, when I love the
passion, the energy, but alsothe insight and the customer
centricity.
What's really clear to me also,which I hope listeners take
away, especially if you're in aservice well, any kind of
business is like you have to,we're all in service, right Is
really thinking about if you canreally think about what it is
(38:07):
that your market, the marketneeds, where that gap is and
where you can help fill it.
Like there's always going to bea role for you.
Okay, so we're at the part thatI love the best, which is our
lightning round, and this iswhere you have to just let it
rip.
You can't overthink this Tracy.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
So I don't have time to overthink stuff, so it's
perfect for me.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So we've been talking about moving fast and making
fast decisions.
So what is the best purchaseunder a $150 that you've made
recently?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I would say I have these commercial, like these
microphone things, and I have astand and it allows me to do my
LinkedIn videos, and so ifyou're thinking from a
perspective.
It's a great way to get startedwith.
You know whether podcasting,but more short.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, and you do lots and lots of LinkedIn videos.
So when people, when people,you do lots, there's like super
cool.
Your husband's made someappearances in them, but I love
they're very practical.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I try to drag other people in, but a lot of people
don't want to be.
I've noticed.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I've noticed that I was like she's really working
hard, roping in her.
Your husband looks like he'sbeing a good sport.
Is there a secret?
Okay, so this is one I love toask Is there a secret unpopular
opinion that you hold that willno longer be secret once you
tell it, by the way.
Secret, unpopular opinion.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
My secret, unpopular opinion is that leadership
actually truly is a service topeople and as you get more
senior and you take more on.
You are literally giving upmore and more and more and more
and more of yourself and whatyou want, because you are doing
(39:43):
it in service to those customers, to the teams you work for and
so.
But the beauty of it is, if youcan really be humble and learn
from them, you actually, youbecome something better.
It becomes the company takes ona life of itself right and
saying like and you have thatwith parenting is another
perfect analogy right, you wanttalk about your son, you want
(40:04):
them to become what they'remeant to be, and you really want
to be like the facilitator.
And I don't think that you know.
Either people hear it at aheadline oh, humility is
important, or they just thinkit's something else.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I love that and there really is, if I go back to it's
a perfect way to end.
But I also want to just kind ofpull the red thread because we
started with you talking aboutyou know, early on in your
career as a high school, likeyou wanted to be of service,
like and you have used this thishas been a theme that you have
shared Like.
It seems like it's been a themethroughout your life,
(40:38):
throughout your career, and Ilove that you are like.
That emphasis of being ofservice, of being like a servant
leader, especially now, isreally, really powerful.
Tracy Sesson so wonderful tohave you on the pod.
Any parting thought you want tohave before we break, any final
(40:59):
thought you want to leave withour listeners I'll say one last
thing no matter what role you'rein, talk to your customers.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Talk to your customers more, and then just
stop talking and just listen.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
And just listen.
Tracy, so wonderful to be withyou.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Wonderful to be with you, Portia.
I can't wait to be in personwith you again soon.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
Thanks for listening toUngovernable Women.
Our producer and editor isMegan King.
Our social media manager isDestiny Eicher.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
You can follow and DM us onInstagram at ungovernablexwomen,
(41:41):
and TikTok atungovernablexwomen.
See you next time.
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of
Ungovernable Women, formerly theManifesta Podcast, the
lifestyle and career podcast foraspiring women.
Our new name reflects ourmission to reach even more
listeners with stories of womenwho are breaking boundaries and
redefining success.
I have a favor to ask you, Ifyou haven't done so already,
please rate and subscribe to thepod.
(00:21):
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, it boosts our rankings
and helps more people discoverus.
Thanks for tuning in.
Welcome to Season 5 ofUngovernable Women, the career
and lifestyle podcast foraspiring women ready to break
barriers.
I'm Portia Mouw and I'mthrilled to be back with my
co-host, Tiffany Waddell-Tate,CEO of Career Maven Consulting.
(00:43):
We've got a new name, but ourmission remains stronger than
ever helping women find theirpurpose, lead high-impact
careers and meaningful lives.
This season will bring you thestories of women who forged
their own paths to success.
It's our time to shine.
Let's dive in.
I am so delighted to welcomeTracy Sesson to the pod.
(01:06):
Tracy is founder and CEO offoreverhumanai and, Tracy, you
and I met a few years ago atConstellation Research's CCE
conference.
So I have to give a shout out toRay Wong because he always puts
the most interesting peopletogether who are doing really
(01:29):
cool, just impactful work in theworld, and so it's a great tech
and innovation conference andliterally everybody you meet at
this conference is doing greatwork you want to connect, learn
from and be friends with, andTracy was one of those people
for me Also, there were very fewwomen at the conference that we
were at too, so I was like, oh,there's another woman there,
(01:50):
but I just really really enjoyedmeeting you, and before
founding Forever Humanai, tracyhad a long successful career as
a tech CEO, innovator andoperator, and you're going to
find the link to her LinkedInprofile company website in the
show notes, so check her out.
She's also the mom of Tracy.
(02:11):
Do I have this right?
Eight kids, eight, count them,count them.
And I think when you and Ifirst met, you had just had your
.
Was it baby seven or baby eight?
Baby eight, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Baby eight I'm done.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Now I'm done.
Listen.
I mean I'm like she was there.
She was there, she was at theconference, which was like
totally badass because you werealso on a panel, like you were
speaking, you had the baby.
I think your husband was theretoo, like doing some backup.
There was a couple of kids likekind of like coming in and
(02:47):
coming out.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I only had one with me at the conference.
Okay, yeah, I was there theyear before, when I was on a
bunch of panels and I was 39weeks pregnant.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Lord.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I basically looked like I had a baby on me, oh, my
Lord, and anytime, like I had myteam member with me at any time
, he was ready to just freak onstage.
And anytime, like I had my teammember with me at any time, he
was ready to just freak on stage.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Those guys must have been so scared to see you walk,
kind of come in, because youknow, like that when you get to
like 39 weeks you're just likeit looks usually like you're
going to explode.
And I have found that, likeevery guy that's not related to
you literally just clears a wideberth because they're so afraid
you might go into labor.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
But you did it.
You did what you needed to do.
Yeah, the guys were great, butthe highlight that year was in
the going back to like raise,the you know miscellaneous and
interesting network which, bythe way, you downplayed your own
um entry into his circlebecause you're an award winner.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes, you get award to get yes, I've Very cool stuff,
so I appreciate that.
I appreciate it.
I'll downplay that, thank you.
Thank you, I'll take it on.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Take it on, Even though she's like more of a tech
and learning design person.
There was a woman there, hername is Janice and she also is
like a lay midwife, and so I wasliterally like I had her room
number written down.
I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I didn't know this.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I'm literally coming to your room.
I was hoping actually.
I thought, well, if I have thebaby here, you're at the Ritz.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It's at the Ritz.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That's exactly right, maybe the baby would get like
Ritz for life for free orsomething.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know what?
You know what?
I really don't think that theRitz would be a bad place to
have a baby, exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You have somebody to clean, right, they bring you
food, food's really good yeah,flying home with a newborn is a
little Not awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It's not awesome.
Stuck at the Ritz, you knowwhat.
I think that I could imagineworse things.
So we're going to dig into howyou pivoted to found your own
company, because you just havesuch an interesting career, some
of the lessons that you'velearned along the way, and
obviously we have got to talkabout how you're doing all this
(04:53):
with eight kids.
But what I have found is thatthe more kids you have, the more
just, fabulous you happen to be, and I have yet to meet an
entrepreneur who's a mom, who'snot, like a total badass.
So I'm super excited for thatconversation.
But first of all, let's jumpinto some basics.
Tracy, where does this podactually physically find you?
Because I know when we weregetting in the green room, you
(05:16):
had this insane like delayed.
You were traveling and you gotin at like this crazy hour.
So like, where are you now?
Like, did you make it home orare you still in at like this
crazy hour?
So like, where are you now?
Like, did you make it home orare you still in the?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
airport somewhere I did make it home.
I'm very happy this is my homeoffice.
It has this little sign thatsays what you love for like a
really long time in my career.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So I'm back there, I'm home.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So, yeah, I mean, look, one of the things, when
you're trying to balance yourlife and you know this, you're a
mom, right is you do crazythings when you travel like you
do crazy shit all the timebefore.
Right, you get up at 3 am andyou take that early flight.
Yeah, why do we do?
That to ourselves, because wewant to be here for the kids,
you know, and so sometimes it'ssmart and sometimes it's
incredibly stupid, but I cantell you, last night I was like
I don't care what happens I wantto get home.
(05:56):
I don't care how late it is, Ijust didn't.
Sometimes you're just like now.
I'm home for a whole day, right, instead of?
Even obviously it ended upbeing like it was four o'clock
when I went to sleep.
It's like three o'clock when Igot home, but anyway, but still.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
You look amazing.
You're like, glowing, like Iwould never know that you were
sleep deprived.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I mean, I'm kind of an expert, but I do also have
this coffee right here.
So I was like I have, Iphysically live, so I live in
the Pittsburgh suburbs, but youknow part of living in
Pittsburgh like it's a greatplace to live, it's a great
place to raise a family.
I also travel a lot and I havefor like a really long time, and
so it's.
I feel like it's in many waysit's a best of both worlds kind
of life.
You know, I get to go to a lotof really cool interesting
places, different cities hangout with a lot of cool people,
(06:41):
but then I also have a reallyawesome place to live at home
and a great place to raise afamily.
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I love that, and I think what that says to me is
you've made some choices to kindof design a life that works for
you, and that's something thatour listeners, I think, are
always trying to figure out andlearn from other women of.
Like, how have you, you know,whether you have eight children
or no children, or whateverstage of life you're in is like,
how do you create a life thatworks for you?
(07:06):
I live in North Carolina.
I'm from California, but kindof similar.
It is a place where it's agreat jumping off spot.
It's really good for raisingkids and I also happen to travel
a lot for work too.
But I'm able to get in and outpretty easily and, like you, I
will break my neck to get homebecause I like to make the
(07:27):
practices, go to the games andall that stuff.
So, tracy, give us a little bitof your backstory.
Like, what should we know aboutyou?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I know it's a big question, but you know like what
makes you you?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
What makes you you?
I think these are things.
I do know, some things that Ithink make me unique.
I think the first one is youknow you already brought up the
kids, but I think obviously it'slike very having kids is always
like a seminal moment, like nomatter when it happens.
I know a little bit about yourstory, but in my particular case
, I was a super young mom, so Ihad my first child when I was 16
years old and I was verygrateful to get to raise her and
(08:06):
she was my why in life.
And I will tell you like I meanyou know, I mean there are
amazing people that came aroundme.
There are obviously always somepeople that are going to think
you know, you're an idiot tokeep a baby, you shouldn't do
that, etc.
Etc.
And so she really became my why.
And I would say for sure and Ithink a lot of people are like
starting their career, I hadlike a bit of a chip on my
shoulder because I wanted toprove to people that we could be
(08:29):
successful.
I also was like very driven totake care of her Right.
So I like worked super hard.
I was very fortunate, like Imean.
My story of getting into tech,which I absolutely love, is also
awesome.
I ended up getting hired towork as a developer at Siemens,
what's now Siemens Healthcare,siemens Health Engineer.
It was a company that gotacquired when I was only 20
(08:52):
years old.
The reason why I got hired iswhen I originally was going to
go to nursing school because andthis is one of the things I
think is funny because I wantedto help people.
And you know, think of beingthat age right, how do you help
people?
You'd be like a teacher or anurse or something like that.
And I basically realized, youknow, pretty early on, like the
thing you can do with technologyis you can help people at scale
, you know, and so you know, Irealized I could take the same,
(09:15):
the same skill sets that made megood in like literal clinical
care, like I mean, I was anurse's aide when I was in high
school, right, because I had towork, I had baby take care of
and stuff.
But those same skill sets oflike listening to people,
figuring out what they neededand taking care of them.
Like the crazy thing is youactually can really scale that
with technology.
And I think that's part of thereason why you look at my life
and my bio.
I've always been very userexperience focused.
(09:37):
I never got into like the wholeof falling in love with the
tech.
I will also say that peoplelike me pair really well with
people who are really in lovewith the tech and I had a lot of
those kind of people in mynetwork when I was young.
So that's fortunate, right.
So, you know, to be somebodythat was more user focused,
outcomes focused, together withsomebody who's a deep
(09:59):
technologist like that's areally strong pairing.
And so I had the opportunity to, you know, be in healthcare.
I will say I always wanted tostart my own business, so this
is actually a dream come truefor me.
I look back and I'm like I could.
I actually could have done it along time ago, but I didn't
really understand, how you know.
And so there were differenttimes in my career where I did
freelance work, where I even gotto like subcontracting some
(10:19):
people and I was like, oh, I'mlike almost starting a business,
but you know, you just get into, you have kids, you want to
have a steady income, we boughta house, you know things like
that, and so that that held upthe dream for a while.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So, tracy, can I ask you I just want to just go back
for something because I thinkthis is really interesting Teen
mom really kind of just has alot of hustle and grit and did
was there any why?
And then you go, you know, soyour first big job going into
Siemens, going into tech, whichis kind of like cracks something
(10:54):
open for you.
I'm just curious, did you haveany guides or that's like such a
young age, like a lot of thingsgo right.
You know, there's always astigma with teen moms, I think,
but I also think we have moresupport systems now and it also
is highly reliant on you, theindividual.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And I'm just curious, like, did you have anyone who
like helped you, like guide you,or said hey, listen, yeah, okay
, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean,that's the story of people like
influencing my life is, for sure, the thread throughout my life
and that's like a thing that'simportant to me.
Like I give back to people,there was nobody, that was like
charting my path for me, becausemost of the people that were
encouraging me like they didn'tknow anything about tech you
(11:31):
know.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So I kind of have to.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I learned early on that there's no like Holy grail
mentor that's going to be like.
This is your path, and here I'ma work mom and I'm in tech and
all this stuff.
Those people like literallyalmost didn't exist, right.
But you're looking for thosementors.
But I was really fortunate,right, like there was a teen
parenting program in my highschool and so there were
wonderful women who worked therethat really gave you know,
(11:54):
poured their lives into those ofus that were teen moms and our
kids, right.
So there's literally a daycarein my school Like so was it hard
.
It was super hard, Right, but Imean just.
You know, the logistics ofbeing a mom are complicated, no
matter what age you are.
We all know that In fact, I waslike you're keeping trains on
the track, but like I drove tothe school and dropped my child
off at the daycare in the schooland it's like having on site
(12:15):
daycare when you're like it wasawesome.
So I was really fortunate andthe director of that program,
who's a wonderful woman namedLinda Sheckenbach, definitely
took me under her wing.
There was also a woman who ranour crisis pregnancy center in
that area who took me under herwing.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I still talk to her on a regular basis today.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I can say exactly how many years, but it's been a
really lot of years, and thenobviously my oldest kid's age
you can figure it out.
So for like 100%, there are somany people that encourage me.
And I think of the things thatlike helps people be successful
is you have to, because therewere a lot of moments of
discouragement from actual likeactually people's being
(12:53):
discouraging, but also just lifewas like so hard, everything
was so hard all the time.
But like you learn, I meanessentially I'm an optimist and
I looked on the bright side so Ididn't think about the hundred
things that went wrong.
I looked at the one thing, like, okay, you know, everyone got
dropped off.
Okay, you know, I got to holdher before I had to go to class
or go to work or whatever.
(13:14):
Or she's having a good timewith, you know, her aunt or
grandparents or whatever while Iwork.
So I learned, like very quickly, to not dwell on the negative,
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Oh, I love that, I love that, I love that and you
know, I think it.
It explains a lot of kind oflike what I saw in you when I
first met you, Cause I was likethis is a woman who's like on
her shit and like you have,that's very generous, you have
that.
Well, no, I mean, you've justgot that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
You've got that level you have that sort of that aura
, if you will, and I'm so youkind of alluded to it, but I'm
curious, what do you think aresome of the qualities or
(14:00):
characteristics of yours thathave been most important for you
?
You know, at this point in mycareer were really?
I came at everything I did withan attitude of service.
Especially early I was justlooking for how to help people.
It was like in my DNA.
I was always kind of like that.
I was like the helpful kid.
If my parents would ask forsomething, I would.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Are you the oldest kid, are you the oldest child,
or like, where are you in thebirth?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
order.
I'm one of the.
I hate the birth order thingbecause I have so many kids, but
like there is a little bit ofthat.
So it's my dad's oldest and Iwas the middle child.
My cause I have a half brother,um, so I think I actually have
the characteristics of both,like the oldest and the middle
child.
So, yeah, I'm kind of apeacemaker, but also, you know,
I was definitely encouraged bymy dad to, you know, get out
(14:40):
there.
So I think I have optimism.
Thing is really important.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Second, that attitude of service.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And then the third was like I was always learning
right and so part of my storythat you know, I don't, I
actually still don't love totell is that I never finished
college.
You know which is crazy.
Like to give you an idea ofwhat the expectations were.
I mean, like my grandmother wasa college graduate, right, and
so when I didn't finish school,it was, it was a big deal, like
(15:10):
I dropped out and dropped outand went back so many times.
I mean, I don't even know if Icould trace all the places where
I have college credit because Iwas always trying to go back,
right.
But like looking back at myselfbeing younger now with empathy,
I was working full time.
I was typically also doingfreelance work and teaching
myself.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You're a parent, you were a parent.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Right, yeah, exactly, I had children a child and then
more and more right.
And then the other thing isbecause of the nature of my work
.
So I jumped right onto the webtraining when it was brand new
and so it was changing all thetime.
And so at night I would go homeafter work and I would teach
myself stuff and I would dothese contract projects to learn
(15:48):
.
And then I would go to work allday and I had kids to take care
of.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So, anyway, I was always learning and it also put
you in a mode, especially, Imean, look, now there's like a
bunch of headlines oh, googledoesn't require a degree, et
cetera, et cetera, which is,like you know, great.
We should actually a hundredpercent acknowledge that tons of
learning happens outside theclassroom.
In fact, it's like insane tothink that wouldn't be true.
Right, like they have all thisstuff, kids learn before they
even go to school.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Most of your learning .
Most of your learning happensright outside of a classroom.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
If you think about it , that sentence is like somewhat
controversial when you're inyour early twenties, right, it's
sounds silly, right?
Because if you don't have adegree so for me I was always I
always had to work harder, I hadto prove myself, I had to go in
as a contractor.
I couldn't get hired as an FTEbecause it's even bachelor's
degree or even a master's degree, and so I like really developed
(16:37):
that skill of like provingmyself, driving value, learning
quickly.
Of course, you know, I'm sothankful that we kind of got to
grow up in the years we did,because there's so much access
to information, right, but likeat the time I would go to Barnes
and Noble or Borders after workand I would buy these like
super fat books and you'd putlike CD-ROM and then learning
new programs.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I remember that so definitely always.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Learning new things is like very much in my DNA and
luckily, like I was, I alwaysloved to read.
I was always like sort of acurious kid, so I just took that
energy and put it towardstechnology and then later
business.
I didn't really read on othertopics for years and years
because I, just like you know, Igave up fiction.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
You know just very was very practical, so you.
So I think there's a couple ofthings that really strike me
then.
So one is I love that you'vetalked you've talked about
optimism a lot, and I thinkthat's really important, right,
right, we will have adversity.
That it is, it is a given.
We are going to experienceadversity.
But believing you can getthrough it, believing that like
there's something better on theside having, I definitely relate
(17:45):
to being an optimist as well.
I also really resonate with thiscontinuous learning, because
that is the world we live in now.
So the idea that you're goingto go to school and then just
that's it, is not a thinganymore.
I also really appreciate thatyou have you talked about not
finishing college.
So a couple of things.
One is I think more and more,that is a choice for young
people, whether it's financiallymotivated or whether it's just
like school's not their thingand they want to jump right into
(18:08):
working.
I feel it's really it's good,and I think it's for those who
are listening, who maybe areearly, like early, early, and
they're like, oh, should I goback and get an associate or
should I go to college?
Like there's lots and lots ofways to get to where you want to
go.
So I just appreciate thatyou've shared that, and I
remember when we were at CCE,you and I and Phil Kamardi
(18:28):
talked about like just what'shappening, like the changing and
thinking around college and youknow, is it necessary or what
do you?
You know, but you're anautodidact too right, like you
are teaching yourself constantly, and I think that's a really
important quality that everyoneshould have is the willingness
and ability to constantly teachthemselves something new.
(18:48):
So, like, like, big up to youfor that, and I think that's
such a great model.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Well, I mean, look, portia, I didn't have any other
choice, right?
Like I said, I was motivated totake care of my kid and I was
like, how do I make more money,how do I take care of her, how
do I provide for her?
But I would also say, you know,I spent some years and that's
you know where Phil and Icrossed paths.
I spent some years in highereducation management.
I got a digital transformationrole, basically, and I will tell
(19:13):
you what really drove me inthat market and continues to.
I've been very fortunate towork with a lot of, you know,
really awesome higher ed clientsin both more traditional
modalities as well as online, aswell as like short courses,
boot camps and things like thatis, it was unnecessarily hard
for me, like when I tell mystory.
I'm not telling it because Iwant anyone to go through what I
went through.
In fact, I look back like thisis so dumb, no-transcript, hello
(20:03):
.
That helps, right.
It helps with studentindebtedness.
It just helps with thepracticalities of life.
It also I mean, you know,fortunately you've led big teams
Having people get into theworkplace sooner helps them
understand the reality.
It helps them apply what theylearn, which is actually the
best way to retain somethingright Like going and learning
learning in sort of a silo,especially when people go for
(20:25):
continuing ed and then theyfinally get into the workplace.
You know, these are super smart, amazing people, but if they
have the opportunity to applytheir learning sooner a lot of
times, it can be reallyeffective.
So I'm pretty passionate aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
But, yeah, like you said, there's many ways to learn
, you know, yeah, it's, well,it's.
I love that you're saying this,it's so.
I have a.
My son is 15 and he wants to,you know, go to college.
But he was like you know, wewere, we were literally talking
today of like, well, he's like,you know, like, could I he's, he
he's thinking about learning atrade in high school, like while
he's still in high school,because, because he has decided
he wants to be a business ownerand he wants to be a business
owner sooner rather than later,and so, and so I love that there
(21:04):
are all these options for kidswhere we use, you know, in the
old days, in the olden days,we'd be like, four-year degree,
go you know, like, just like,and you're going to go to school
.
Then you're going to do like andyou're going to be.
It's going to be verysequential, and now what we're
saying is listen, first of all,figure out what you like and
don't like.
The only way you do that is byactually doing the thing right.
(21:24):
It's not sitting in theclassroom, it's actually going
and trying out some differentcareers.
If you want to go to medicalschool, though, maybe you try to
be a CNA first and you canbecome a CNA and I think, as
late, as early as, like yourlast year in high school, like
there's so many options.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Well, that's a program I took.
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, you can get trained when
you're 16.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, you can get trained when you're 16.
This, I think, is really thekind of the trend, and so it's
just great to talk to someonewho has a real perspective on it
, because I don't think we talkabout it enough and that means
that we don't give kids.
It's about optionality, right?
It's about optionality in yourcareer.
Okay, let's talk a little bitabout so foreverhumanai.
First of all, I love the name.
(22:09):
I think I told you I love thebrand.
I love the branding.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That means a lot coming from an expert like you,
so thank you.
So just tell me a little bitabout like how, what's the
genesis of the company?
So the genesis of Forever HumanAI is?
I had the opportunity to startmy own business and as I was
thinking about what I reallywanted to do which you know this
is it's an interesting time,right.
Like I'm older, I've had a lotof years of experience, I've
(22:33):
seen a lot.
It's like what do I really wantto do?
Years I career in multipledifferent industries.
Working for somebody else,working for somebody else
Working for somebody else andactually like in the corporate
world, which is different thanbeing on the professional
services side.
So I worked in banking,financial services, I worked in
healthcare, I worked ineducation and then I had the
(22:53):
opportunity to come in and helpto grow and run a professional
services consultancy.
That was an awesome time.
My career is there for nineyears, but now I'm like I can do
my own thing.
So I was like, what do I wantto actually do?
So I'm going to take the timeto think through it.
I did an exercise many yearsago.
I don't know if you've everdone this one.
(23:22):
It's like what someone's goingto say, something you know, and
so it was actually an awesomeexercise that I did when I was,
like you know, a team leader andmy team and I did it and I
decided I wanted my tombstone tosay she helped unlock human
potential, because I wanted tobe broad, right, because
obviously being a mom is superimportant to me, but so is the
actual work that we do indigital technology, right, like
making things easier forcustomers, helping unlock new
markets for my clients, likethings like that, and also, of
(23:43):
course, building out teams, likeone of the things that I think
is really awesome.
Right, you bring someone in.
They're less experienced, youstay with them for years and you
coach and mentor them.
I love that too, stay with youor they go on and do it.
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome, right, so you're helping unlock human
potential, and so I knewsomething like that had to be in
my company, and so I was like,okay, well, what I do, I do for
the people.
Right, tech is just my tool set, but I'm just, ultimately, I'm
(24:04):
a people person.
I want to make life better forpeople.
The other thing I noticed wasyou know, people were freaking
out about AI, not that theyaren't still, but you think,
like a year ago.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Oh my God, losingosing it, losing it,
totally losing it, we're losingit right.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And it's still out there right, especially if
you're like me and you spend waytoo much time on X Twitter, you
know.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, I'm not there at all.
So I am not.
I am off of X because I waslike it's, that's enough, Busta.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
There's like great stuff there.
And there's also like there'llbe no jobs.
It's going to be like, yes, ourAI overlords are here, their
overlords are here, exactlyRight, just submit.
Yeah, resistance is futile,right, yeah, exactly.
(24:48):
But like I have a very strongperspective, like, look, ai is
great.
You know, I've been fortunatebecause I've been like on the
bleeding edge of technology formy whole career right and so we
have data science team for yearsand years.
Like you get the potential.
And then you also, justgenerally speaking, right Like
there's lots of technology outthere that people have not been
able to adopt anyway.
(25:09):
Just think about it.
Like, how many people can'teven get a CRM out the door, let
alone all of a sudden we'regoing to audit.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We don't have enough time to even talk about the CRMs
.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I picked that one on purpose for you, but anyway.
So what I really started tothink about is, like people are
scared of this right, and when Ithink about like I want to help
people understand everythingthat we do in my business is in
the service of people and it'ssuper obvious.
We will forever be focused onthe human Forever human.
(25:39):
And making the world a betterplace right.
Leveraging AI, leveraging theServiceNow platform which I just
thought was like an awesomeplatform, again under leveraged
for its potential, not becausethat's a great platform, but, as
you know, you have these greattools.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
but then how do you unlock them for the benefit of
the organization?
Exactly how do you?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
unlock it for the people.
Organizations are just peopleright.
And so that was where I reallywanted to say how do we take
these tools and apply them tomake a difference for people?
So, whether you're makingpeople's jobs easier, you're
helping to create new markets,if you're helping to create
better experiences for customers.
And so I was like this is my,this is my focus forever, you
(26:20):
know.
And so that's how I ended upwith the name of the company.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So this has been.
Are you one year in a littlebit more than a year in One year
?
Yeah, okay, yes, so what's beenthe biggest?
You know people ask me this, soI always love asking the
question like what, what's whatsurprised you when you're in
what's, what's been the biggestsurprise?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I mean, the biggest surprise I had a year in was
everything takes longer than Ithought, oh my.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
God, nobody tells, like I know.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It's like we know this, but then you're oh my God,
yeah, yeah, yeah you reject it.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Everything takes longer, everything literally.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, exactly, but I guess the thing I would say is
the most amazing thing.
And this is.
I would just say this as a wordof encouragement to like
anybody whether you're later inyour career, mid career or, you
know you're very young andgetting started is like this
sounds so stupid but people stopthemselves for all kinds of
reasons, right Like I was at awomen's event yesterday.
(27:17):
I was talking about like wemake our own glass ceilings.
You can just do stuff right.
Like I mean, like I had thisidea and I mean again, think of
the tool sets we have now.
They're like incredible.
I'm like brainstorming the nameof the company and trying to
figure out your own.
Like texting my friend.
Like we're going back and forthand back he's the one that
found the domain and likeactually found one that worked
Right Cause the first one wewanted to use for an available
(27:38):
course.
Like every you know.
And like coming up with thelogo.
I mean you know these aretaking.
It's just like when you youknow we did lots of software
development ideas like thatthey're coming.
Like we're innately creative aspeople yeah so just being able
to take something from idea intoexecution.
If I have one tip for people,this is my opinion.
(27:58):
Okay, I don't know if you would, you well?
Okay, portia, you are amarketing expert, so I have a
feeling you'll vote with me.
One of the very, very firstthings I did was, of course, I
picked the name of the company,but I also did like the logo and
the branding and I orderedbusiness cards.
You know, like I'm going toshow you one, so I have these
business cards.
They're really I think they'rereally beautiful With my
(28:20):
favorite color this with thepurple, it's really beautiful, I
mean.
I work with the designer, right.
So it's like and so my awesomefriend Sarah's company printed
these for me and actually, whenshe printed them for me, she
goes you know, I'm not chargingyou for these.
That's like you said, thepeople helping you along, I'm
like you don't need to notcharge me.
She's like this is myinvestment into your company.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And it's so funny because lots of people don't do
business cards anymore.
My point isn't to say go dobusiness cards, but when you're
like by yourself, this is likethe realest thing I had for my
business.
I had this and I was like, andI was just you had to self coach
yourself all the time.
Portia, I mean, I know you're ahandy in this right, so like
(29:02):
you really become cause if youwait to have time to talk to me
or whatever, like you can'tright.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
You have to just execute.
You just have to do stuff allthe time.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That's right you have to execute all the time.
I have a real business card, soit's a real business.
You can go out.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's a real business.
I have a real business.
I have a real business Right.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, and you know it comes
true's idea.
All of them, every single one,it was just somebody came up
with an idea and those ideas arelike how can I help this person
(29:38):
?
How do I serve this market?
Oh, I don't like how myemployer does this, I'm going to
do this differently.
They're just normal people likeus.
You feel like there's thisother level.
I had the same reaction tomoving into executive management
.
You think you think you'regoing to get in there and like,
all of a sudden, like all thesmart, extra smart people are
going to be in there and likelet's just say they're just
normal, they're normal.
The reaction, by the way, myteam, it's like I'm not that
(30:00):
smart, like why does she get tothis job?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, it's very true.
Risk tolerance, yeah, yeah, youknow what.
That is actually really funny.
You get into, you get to the Icall it to the.
You get to the big table andyou're like this really isn't
that big of a deal.
It's like more stress.
It's like more stress, butyou're like it's not that big of
a deal.
But no-transcript, I knowsooner rather than later, right,
(30:43):
that's the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Portia say that again for the people in the back If
it doesn't work right.
Like one of the things you know, in my previous business I had
the opportunity to work with alot of startups.
Actually, in my company beforethat I worked with a lot of
startups because I was likeinnovation person, you know, and
the sooner you can get youridea and get real reaction to it
.
Like the first thing I did whenI decided to start this
business, I was like justcalling all my friends.
(31:07):
I was like calling my CIOfriends and I was like calling
you know someone?
I knew a few people I knew thatwent to service.
Now Should I start thisbusiness?
You know, I'm like asking forfeedback.
Well, this is my hypothesis.
And then I like wrote down myfour bullet points and I just
started calling people.
I remember, yeah, people Italked to right, but I wanted to
remember right, because I wasjust testing my hypothesis and
(31:27):
tested in production.
And the other thing to realizeand this is my tip as somebody
who spent my whole career infast-moving technology-
Everybody's career is movingfaster and faster and faster all
the time.
But, like I started there andwas always there, right, that's
why I had to study at night tolearn the new thing, because
that's what happens when you'rein tech.
You have to do that.
You always have to do it, whichis just call everything your
(31:49):
current hypothesis right.
Don't get married to anythingright when it comes to your
business.
Right, Like things are going tochange and, of course, you have
to pick your focus and you haveto execute against it.
But you also have tocontinuously horizon scan.
We I mean people can like it ornot like it, but it's actually
just reality.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
This is knowledge, and so keep an open mind.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Like today you're doing a podcast, Like later on
you might be doing I might belike hitting on a VR simulation
together and like maybe we'll gofor like a virtual walk, I need
.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I need real exercise Tracy, not virtual exercise.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I know, I know, yeah, no, no, that's true, yeah, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I, although I did recently buy an under the desk
treadmill because I was like Ican't be sitting all day.
It's like it's dead.
No but it's easy.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
It's super we as entrepreneurs.
It's like, I think, one of thedangers right, because you own
it, it's you and I had a lot ofthis at my previous company.
Right, Because I was at the topof the organization yeah, I was
able to.
It's just like if I do one morething, it will make a
difference.
You know, sometimes it feltlike and I'm not saying this is
always true, certainly notalways but it felt in the
corporate world.
I was like, why would I evenkeep trying?
(32:55):
There were definitely days likethat, yeah, or you're just
waiting on people, but you'renever.
It's easy to sit at your deskand sit there all day and, like
you barely go to the bathroom,maybe you drink some and, of
course, when you finally realize, oh, I've been sitting here
since, whatever, since like 15hours.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Eat chips, eat chips, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Which is why I don't buy chips, because, yes, that is
Can't have it in the house,can't have it in the house.
But I love.
This point here is so importantbecause it's really easy to
overthink things and you'reright.
In corporate, you spend a lotof time waiting on people, you
know, or you have to go and sell.
(33:34):
You know.
You sell one person on the ideaand then it's like okay, we got
to talk to the team, you know.
It's like there's so many layersand it takes a lot and I worked
in manufacturing andmanufacturing it takes like you
work with a bunch of engineers,like it can take a long time
just to get this, becausethere's real impact.
Because there's real, that'sright, exactly Because there's
real impact if it's wrong.
But I think the thing that I'veappreciated and I really am
(33:59):
glad that you're articulating,is like you move faster so you
can learn more and more quickly.
And this part about thehypotheses it's the hypothesis
you have right now, which maychange as you learn more and as
it should change and as you getmore feedback, and I also love.
I want to just kind of flag forour listeners that, like the way
you talked about, like you andI talked you talked to you said
(34:20):
you call a CFO, like that isabsolutely the most important
thing.
It's like you can't DIY thiswith YouTube sitting in your
desk by yourself.
You've got to go out and talkto people who've either done it,
who are doing it, becausethat's going to speed your
learning curve.
And I think for people who areperfectionists or who, like I,
need this to be a hundredpercent baked, it's like no, no,
(34:41):
no, no, no, no.
You're going to like, you'regoing to go as far as you can
see, let it rip and then correctcourse, correct along the way.
So I love that lesson yeah,thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I think figuring out too if you think of your idea,
your company, your business,your market offering, whatever
your product.
I mean, a lot of this comesfrom software product, right?
So the nice thing about notbeing in the same thing is, you
can always ship more and you canbe iterative, but there is
actually a really importantprinciple too of how far do you
go into those experiments beforeyou call them right.
(35:13):
That's like I think a lot oftimes where the bar is oh yeah.
Because you know it's like youtell people you started a
business and start collectingleads, when really what you're
trying to do is just test andsee if there's a market
opportunity.
I mean, I know people have donethat.
That's not my DNA, right?
Do you go that far?
Yeah, yeah, opportunity.
I mean I know people have donethat.
That's not my DNA, right, doyou go that far?
But then you have that on oneside.
(35:34):
On the other extreme you havepeople that, especially in the
technology world, they'redesigning and designing and
designing and they're sitting infront of their own computer
with their own ideas, in somecases not informed by the
marketplace at all, and they gounder where the years go by, and
then they launch their thingand guess what?
The market doesn't want it,right, and so there's no product
(35:56):
market fit.
Yeah, there's no fit I neverlived in a world where I had
that opportunity.
I never got caught up in thatRight.
I was very fortunate that, eventhough I was in technology.
I was in fast moving groups.
I actually worked with embeddedin the marketing team for a
long time, which is funny,because I didn't want to be
embedded in the marketing team.
(36:16):
I was like real developers arein IT.
I learned so much.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, everyone looks down on us, right, and so I
learned I know Everyone justlooks down.
We're just trying to help yousell things, that's all.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
The other thing you learn.
Okay, here's a lesson that Ithink is super important for
people to learn, especially whenthey're more in the back of the
house, whether in technology,manufacturing, et cetera.
One of the things that Ifigured out early on is the
marketing people, thesalespeople, whoever the
go-to-market people are in yourorganization, are not, in fact,
changing things because they areclueless or because they are
(36:48):
trying to torture you, right?
Or because they can't makedecisions.
It is, in fact, because themarketplace is fickle and it
moves very quickly and,depending on what your offer is,
the closer you are to a fastmoving, especially if you're in
a consumer market.
We're consumer like.
We change our minds all thetime, right Like are you
(37:09):
starting to?
brand of outfit, like clothes,whatever so the faster you are,
the closer you are to that and Ithink that when I realized that
, I really took that perspectiveand I would share it with the
IT team and I would share itwith my team so that people,
empathy is the skill right,empathy is the skill.
I have, more than one skillthat I recommend people get.
But empathy and assuming goodintent from people, right, we'll
(37:33):
allow you to.
Then you step in the shoes andsay why is Portia, the crazy
marketing lady, changing hermind again?
Oh, cause she talked tocustomers.
You know the reason why we havea business.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
So we're at the part, you know so, when I love the
passion, the energy, but alsothe insight and the customer
centricity.
What's really clear to me also,which I hope listeners take
away, especially if you're in aservice well, any kind of
business is like you have to,we're all in service, right Is
really thinking about if you canreally think about what it is
(38:07):
that your market, the marketneeds, where that gap is and
where you can help fill it.
Like there's always going to bea role for you.
Okay, so we're at the part thatI love the best, which is our
lightning round, and this iswhere you have to just let it
rip.
You can't overthink this Tracy.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
So I don't have time to overthink stuff, so it's
perfect for me.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So we've been talking about moving fast and making
fast decisions.
So what is the best purchaseunder a $150 that you've made
recently?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I would say I have these commercial, like these
microphone things, and I have astand and it allows me to do my
LinkedIn videos, and so ifyou're thinking from a
perspective.
It's a great way to get startedwith.
You know whether podcasting,but more short.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, and you do lots and lots of LinkedIn videos.
So when people, when people,you do lots, there's like super
cool.
Your husband's made someappearances in them, but I love
they're very practical.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I try to drag other people in, but a lot of people
don't want to be.
I've noticed.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I've noticed that I was like she's really working
hard, roping in her.
Your husband looks like he'sbeing a good sport.
Is there a secret?
Okay, so this is one I love toask Is there a secret unpopular
opinion that you hold that willno longer be secret once you
tell it, by the way.
Secret, unpopular opinion.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
My secret, unpopular opinion is that leadership
actually truly is a service topeople and as you get more
senior and you take more on.
You are literally giving upmore and more and more and more
and more of yourself and whatyou want, because you are doing
(39:43):
it in service to those customers, to the teams you work for and
so.
But the beauty of it is, if youcan really be humble and learn
from them, you actually, youbecome something better.
It becomes the company takes ona life of itself right and
saying like and you have thatwith parenting is another
perfect analogy right, you wanttalk about your son, you want
(40:04):
them to become what they'remeant to be, and you really want
to be like the facilitator.
And I don't think that you know.
Either people hear it at aheadline oh, humility is
important, or they just thinkit's something else.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I love that and there really is, if I go back to it's
a perfect way to end.
But I also want to just kind ofpull the red thread because we
started with you talking aboutyou know, early on in your
career as a high school, likeyou wanted to be of service,
like and you have used this thishas been a theme that you have
shared Like.
It seems like it's been a themethroughout your life,
(40:38):
throughout your career, and Ilove that you are like.
That emphasis of being ofservice, of being like a servant
leader, especially now, isreally, really powerful.
Tracy Sesson so wonderful tohave you on the pod.
Any parting thought you want tohave before we break, any final
(40:59):
thought you want to leave withour listeners I'll say one last
thing no matter what role you'rein, talk to your customers.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Talk to your customers more, and then just
stop talking and just listen.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
And just listen.
Tracy, so wonderful to be withyou.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Wonderful to be with you, Portia.
I can't wait to be in personwith you again soon.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
Thanks for listening toUngovernable Women.
Our producer and editor isMegan King.
Our social media manager isDestiny Eicher.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
You can follow and DM us onInstagram at ungovernablexwomen,
(41:41):
and TikTok atungovernablexwomen.
See you next time.
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