February 7, 2024 • 46 mins
Ever felt like a square peg in a round-hole world of corporate structures? Julie Goff, the COO of HireBrain, joins us to unravel the tapestry of intrapreneurship, illustrating how it's not only possible but vital to kindle the flames of innovation from within. Our exchange traverses the landscape of workplace creativity, revealing how it thrives beyond artsy confines and how women, in particular, can harness it to fuel their career trajectories. We're peeling back the layers of standard corporate culture, advocating for environments that don't just tolerate but celebrate the entrepreneurial spirit that lies in each of us.
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Tiffany Waddell Tate on LinkedIn
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Julie Goff on Twitter/X
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Portia Mount (00:03):
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a
career and lifestyle podcastfor aspiring women.
I'm Portia Mount.
Join me and my co-host, tiffanyWaddell-Tate, this season on
our mission to help women findtheir purpose, lead high-impact
careers and live fulfillingpersonal lives by sharing the
stories of women who've carvedtheir own path to success.
(00:23):
The future is female.
Let's get started.
Well, hello squad.
Our guest today is Julie Goff,chief Operating Officer at
HireBrain.
Julie is an entrepreneur turnedentrepreneur, with a career at
the intersection of people andtechnology.
She has led technologyinitiatives of varying sizes and
(00:45):
scales at the enterprise leveland zero to one launches, and
throughout her work, she remainsever curious about how
technology can help make us more, not less, human.
I love the sound of that.
Now you're probably wonderingwhat is HireBrain.
Hirebrain is a B2B SaaS platformuniquely designed for hiring
(01:06):
managers to assist in the everchallenging work of planning
roles, hiring talent, buildingefficient teams with accuracy
and reliability, and if you area people manager, you know how
important this is.
Hirebrain leverages AI to helpenterprises create role specific
profiles, effective andequitable job descriptions,
interview guides and so muchmore.
(01:27):
You can learn more aboutHireBrain at wwwhirebraincom and
you can follow Julie on Twitter.
We still call it Twitter, butwe know it's X at Julia Pete
Goff and LinkedIn at Julie Goff,and so you will also see these
in the show notes, as always, sothat you can both follow Julie
(01:50):
and also take a look atHireBrain.
Welcome, julie, so great tohave you, thank you.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (01:56):
Yeah, Julie.
So this episode is all aboutentrepreneurship at work, but I
think it's important that wedefine what that means for our
listeners.
How would you describeentrepreneurship and what it
means to you?
Julie Goff (02:09):
Well, I love that question, and I first have to
kind of laugh at the notion thatwe're having a podcast on
entrepreneurship, because I cameto that.
I discovered that wordrelatively late in my career,
relative to the work I was doing, so I don't know where I was or
what I was doing at the time,but I just remember hearing it
for the first time and havingthis like moment of like oh my
(02:32):
goodness, there's a word thatdescribes me, right, somebody
gets it, and I did a littleresearch this morning about the
origin of that word andapparently it came about in the
70s, like I didn't even know,and so I just heard it in my
travels as I was doing the workthat I was passionate about, and
I was like an entrepreneur.
(02:52):
That is what I am.
I love it.
There's a word for me.
I'm not just weird, but I thinkthe way that I would define it
and it's interesting and kind ofreassuring that my definition
matches up with, maybe, the waythe world would define it but I
think it's a person who is justnaturally curious, right?
We know that this is true aboutentrepreneurs especially, right
(03:14):
?
They just have that burning.
Oh my gosh, this is a problemthat I have to solve, right, I
have to stop everything, and Ithink that can.
Still, if you're naturallycurious, that's going to show up
no matter what environmentyou're in, right.
And so I think if you're doinggood work at a corporation and
you're close to a business, abusiness with challenges, a
(03:34):
business with potential, right,you're going to be curious, see
ways that things can be donebetter.
If you're a curious person,you're going to be curious
outside of work as well, right,and you're going to start to
connect dots and ask questionsand think about things.
And so I think an entrepreneuror somebody who's going to bring
that curiosity to their day jobis not going to be afraid to
(03:56):
with the right respect, right,and posture, ask questions,
think about how things could bedone differently and then not be
afraid to take on the doingright.
I think it's easy inside of alarger organization where there
are a lot of problems, to begrumpy, to complain, and that's
that doesn't cut it for me,right.
Like I think, if you're goingto be an entrepreneur, you have
(04:17):
to see where it's broken and beready to help solve the problems
.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (04:21):
It sounds like being super curious and
someone who is not justidentifying problems and calling
them out, but looking forsolutions probably means that
you come up with a lot of bigideas.
You're probably on the cuttingedge of innovation and just
driving creativity at a reallyfast speed.
So I'm wondering, when youthink about harnessing that
(04:44):
mindset inside of anorganization, how does it
contribute to company cultureand how does it contribute to
your career right, especially asan ambitious woman?
Julie Goff (04:55):
Yeah, so at any big organization, I think,
especially early in your career,as you're sort of getting into
the business, learning thecompany, learning how to do what
you do, there's this sort ofidea that the C-suite has it all
figured out right.
Portia Mount (05:10):
They do not.
People, they do not.
Julie Goff (05:13):
The board is going to lead us on a flawless path to
growth.
Right, and especially when youget into those leadership
positions and you realize howlittle we know.
Right, leadership is making thebest decisions in the moment
with the information that youhave.
Right, and being sort ofcourageous enough to keep going.
And I think as entrepreneurs wecan be the people that have the
creative space right, theenergy, to look at these
(05:36):
problems and think about themcreatively, because our C-suite
often is dealing with so muchyou know they're living in kind
of that cognitive poverty state.
That's not good for creativity,right, and that's just reality.
Right, if you're leading thecompany, you don't necessarily
have the bandwidth, the time,the ability to take a step back
(05:58):
and sort of think creatively andtinker.
So, as an entrepreneur, right,the day to day is off your
shoulders.
You can look sort of with fresheyes at problems and sort of
bring that creativity, thatinnovation to a particular
problem.
And I think I like the wordmindset, because that means lots
of people have to be thinkingthat way at the same time.
(06:19):
Right, and I think companiesare going to take that step
forward when you have a lot ofpeople thinking that way across
a lot of different problems andareas of the business.
Right, it can't just be kind ofthe one person coming in with
the savior, you know, complex orwhatever and trying to fix
everything that's broken.
All of us have to be curiousand creative at the same time,
(06:41):
so I think that's where themindset is crucial.
Portia Mount (06:44):
I really want to dig into the mindset piece more,
Julie, because, as someone whospent many years in corporate
America, one of the things I'venoticed is that I call it the
not my circus, not my monkey'sattitude.
It's like.
It's a survival mechanism,right Of like.
Oh my god, I just need to do myjob.
Let me not get involved in like.
(07:06):
There's no shortage ofchallenges or problems inside of
companies, and that's alsomassive opportunity for the
right kind of person, and youhave to have this mindset that
you're talking about.
Of like.
It's not just finding problems,but also thinking about how you
(07:28):
can create opportunities.
I would also add create value,right, Because not every problem
that's out there is worthy ofbeing solved, and so the
question really is how do you,is that from your standpoint?
Is there a blueprint or stepsthat one might think about to
identify those challenges andturn them into opportunities?
(07:51):
Even just thinking about yourown experience, Somebody who's
early in their career might belike oh, that's great, how do I
do that?
What kind of practical stepscan someone take?
Julie Goff (08:03):
Yeah, I often think these things start very small,
right.
Like if you see an opportunityon your team where something's
broken and you can bring maybe anew piece of technology to your
team, that's going to say we'regoing to work harder I mean,
we're going to be smarter onthis issue, not harder, because
look at this piece of technologythat I found that's fantastic,
it's going to solve our problem.
(08:23):
And then I think, once you do afew of those right, you gain
trust you yourself, especiallyas women, right.
Like I think we have to buildour courage right, and I love
kind of one of my mottoes islike courage begets courage,
right.
So I think you probably coachwomen this way too.
Like you got to take thatlittle step and put yourself out
there and oh, ok, I didn't die,nobody fired me, ok, nobody
(08:46):
died, nobody died, nobody died,nobody died.
Portia Mount (08:49):
I am not doing surgery on anybody Now you, it's
like it's yeah.
Julie Goff (08:53):
I love that.
That was one of my favoritemoments in my corporate career
was we were like on a conferencecall like 6 PM on a Friday
night and everyone wasfrustrated.
We couldn't figure it out.
And somebody it was like thiswoman from Boston and she was
like you know what?
Everybody go home get a drink.
Nobody's on the table bleedingout.
We can figure this out.
On Monday I was like levityalways get, I love that it just
(09:14):
it puts it in perspective reallyquickly.
But I think it's that notion ofkind of building your own
confidence and courage, right,and again knowing that, like the
higher ups don't have it allfigured out.
So your original ideas are good, right.
And then I think it's alsotesting out if you're in the
right environment where that'sgoing to be embraced or rewarded
(09:35):
right Because.
I think I say this fromexperience.
If you are in a situation whereyou're trying to be creative,
curious, bring ideas to thetable and nobody's having it
like you're going to burnyourself back so fast.
Fall back, Fall back right, Iknow, and you kind of have to,
like, in a corporate environmentyou're going to hit some
natural resistance just becauseof how big you know it's a big
(09:58):
organization, right, a lot ofbig shift to turn.
So you kind of have to take thelong game approach.
I think, if you're anentrepreneur in a lot of
respects but you know thedifference, right, you know the
difference.
If you're in a place where yourideas are absolutely unwelcome,
or if you're OK, did a good jobon this, let's give it the next
thing.
And I think, if you're drivenlike this, if you're an
(10:21):
entrepreneur at heart, like ifyou can't turn off that
curiosity and you're in a placelike that, go see Tiffany and
find your next role, becauseit's maddening, right, You're
going to drive yourself nuts.
And then, conversely, if youfind yourself in a place where
that is embraced, wow, like youare just energized and excited
(10:42):
and building those muscles andseeing what's possible, right.
So I think those are.
That's really kind of theblueprint I would think about
right, the small to the next, tothe big, to the big, and then
the ultimate is likeentrepreneurship, right, I love
that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (10:57):
Yeah, julie, I am curious when you
talk about context where ithasn't been welcome or it hasn't
been encouraged to be curiousand work in this way.
What are some indicators thatthe place or the space does not
have the capacity for that typeof mindset, and can you share a
time where you saw this show upin your career and what you did
(11:20):
about it?
Julie Goff (11:21):
Yeah, I mean, I think for me I have joke, but it
was true, like for me, kind ofthe aha moment was like I
started to get in trouble and Imean, obviously I'm a rule
follower, I hate breaking rules,but I think if you're a
creative sort of like personwith ingenuity inside a big
organization and if you'reyounger in your career right,
(11:41):
and you have ideas sometimes,that's welcome.
But if you're in a place thatit's not welcome, you're gonna
get your hands slapped and thatdoes not feel good.
No, and so I sort of joke.
I was like I realized it wastime for me to go when I started
getting in trouble, because Iwasn't doing anything wrong, but
I just had too many ideas forthe spot I was in, and so I
(12:02):
think that that's probably agood indication For me.
I experienced some of this whenI was in banking in the mid
2000s, right, and that was atime where the financial crisis
was hitting the economy, wastaking like fear was the only
emotion that we had inside of abank at that time, right, and so
(12:23):
I think we all are gonna beinside companies where our
industry hits certain road bumps, et cetera, and fear is just
like from the top down, fear isjust gonna be everywhere, and so
that is usually a time whencreativity, curiosity, is just
you can't speak up, right, youjust kind of have to put your
head down into your work.
So I think for me, I in thatsituation realized I needed to
(12:47):
like just put my head down anddo my work, you know, but big
picture as kind of that, thattime sort of started to lift and
things were getting better andI was thinking about my next
move, like I think I realized,okay, I need to be in a place,
whether it's inside acorporation or somewhere else,
where I can be, have morefreedom to move and to execute
(13:08):
on these ideas.
Portia Mount (13:10):
I wonder also, julie, you gave the example of
being in banking highlyregulated industry If you're
working in pharmaceuticals againhighly regulated and so I also
wonder if the tolerance and thenif you're at a legacy brand, if
you're a?
Tiffany and I both worked for acompany that was almost 200
years old and had a long, longhistory, a very, very specific
(13:31):
way of doing business as a LeanSix Sigma company.
So everything's verystandardized, very regimented,
and understanding theenvironment that you're in and
knowing that some environmentsdon't like that's, let's say,
creativity.
And, by the way, we shouldprobably talk a little bit about
what do we mean when we saycreativity?
Because sometimes we thinkabout it as being artistic, but
(13:52):
that's not.
I mean, creativity is actuallyvery broadly defined.
But I wonder and I've certainlyseen this in my own career of
really understanding yourenvironment and figuring out
where the boundaries are.
And you're right, and I loveyou use the word, like when I
started to get in trouble.
And I wonder for thoselistening who are newer in their
(14:13):
career, earlier in their career, it's like there are avenues,
but you've got to understand theculture that you're in and I
certainly know from experiencethat oftentimes there's that
like you need to earn yourstripes before you can run off
and create other ideas.
I will just say what I've seenwith like especially, you know,
(14:34):
our Gen Z team members.
They're like I don't want towait my turn, man, let me go.
You don't let me do my thing,I'm going to go someplace else.
That's legit.
That's legit Absolutely.
And you know, I wonder if wejust spend a minute talking
about just like.
There are avenues, but you'vegot to understand the
environment and the culture inwhich you're operating and then
(14:56):
you can decide.
You know what this, this place,isn't for me.
I'm going to go on to the nextthing, but I just wonder if you,
if you know, if you have aperspective on that.
Julie Goff (15:04):
I love that you said that, because it's so important
, so important, and it actuallyreminds me of when I was
graduating from college.
There was this organization inNorth Carolina, a nonprofit, and
I was just obsessed with themission.
I really wanted to go work forthem.
I think I interviewed with themfor three different roles.
None of that.
I didn't get any of them, and Iremember sitting across from a
VP when I was, you know, 21, 22years old, and she was like I
(15:28):
love your passion, go get someskills and come back.
Portia Mount (15:31):
And I was like this job will help me get the
skills right now.
We'll give me skills Hello.
Julie Goff (15:37):
Yes, I know, I know it's funny.
It's funny now.
Portia Mount (15:40):
It's not funny, then I know right, it hurts,
then it hurt back, then you canlaugh now though.
Julie Goff (15:45):
Right, that's great.
And it immediately informed mymy career path, right, I was
like, okay, I'm going to go geta job.
I mean, I'm in Charlotte, northCarolina, there's Wacovia,
there's Bank of America, let mego, let me go get a job there.
And it's not easy to get a jobthere, but that's what I started
pursuing.
I did get in there and kind ofstarted my career there.
(16:05):
Portia, I think what you said isabsolutely correct, like that
is a phenomenal place to cutyour teeth, to get experience,
to understand the unspokendynamics of an organization, how
to build relationships, how tohave an executive presence right
, I think all of those thingsare going to be so important
later on.
And you can't hone those skillsby yourself, right, you've got
to be inside an organization.
(16:26):
And I think you, in those days,you have to have humility,
right, you have to have thehumility to say, like I'm just a
kid, I'm just learning thisbusiness, right, but if you can
put yourself in situations whereyou have to learn quickly,
build those relationships, right, you're going to get so many
reps on those skills.
Portia Mount (16:44):
Yeah.
Julie Goff (16:44):
Yeah, that you know I always said, like by the time
I turn 30, I want to haveamassed all these different
skills that I can like okay,apply it anywhere.
I don't know where I'm going,but I'm just going to have this
sort of repertoire of skills.
I also went to law school in mytwenties at night, so it
allowed me to sort of just havethis like tool chest of things I
could go use, and I knew thatit would.
It would equip me for whateverI was going to do next and
(17:05):
wherever that passion led me, Iwas finally going to have the
skills to bring to it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (17:11):
You know, Julie, when I, when I think
about what you're saying, aboutcapturing the skills, building
your kind of word chestcapabilities, let's call it that
.
Julie Goff (17:20):
That's what I'm saying.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (17:25):
This idea of reading the tea leaves and
making sure that your ideas andyour passion, you're harnessing
it towards something that iscontributing value.
I think, Portia, you said thatearlier.
That's always true and nomatter what stage of your career
you're in, it's like I can havea really good idea or I could
see a quick solve to something,but is this quick solve
sustainable?
Does this quick solve help usdrive more revenue?
(17:46):
Does this quick solve mean weneed to move some people around
on this team because they're notgoing to make it once we
implement this new way?
You know like those are thehard question.
It's like the what are the newproblems that come about because
we're solving this one?
And I think, generationally.
There's all this conversationabout you know who's the
(18:09):
smartest, who's the hardestworking, and all this business.
But the question is the same,regardless of your life stage or
what part of the business thatyou're in, and so I think about.
You captured all these skills,you leverage them inside of a
big box organization, coupleother organizations that were a
little smaller, and then youflipped out into
(18:31):
entrepreneurship.
How has that work just beenhelpful for you now that you're
in this space?
Julie Goff (18:37):
Yeah, great question .
Well, like I said, I came tothat word entrepreneur kind of
late in my career and once Ifound it and grabbed hold to it,
the step to entrepreneurshipwas not that much farther right,
because I kind of was able tolike, frame and categorize
everything I had been doing in away that said oh, like I have
(18:58):
the skill set, I am ready forthis step.
I don't think I mean.
I know, tiffany, you and I knowplenty of successful
entrepreneurs in their twenties.
We taught and mentored many ofthem.
But like that wasn't me I knowthat wasn't me because I needed
to go get skills, learn somethings, develop that business
acumen right, like all of thosethings right.
Portia Mount (19:19):
Like my praise hands.
Julie Goff (19:20):
Yes, I mean every, every criticism that somebody
made of a leader during COVID.
I said, nope, you don't get tocriticize them because this is
freaking hard.
You know, there are so manycompeting priorities Like it is
just hard to be.
I was a leader at the time,took a new leader at the time
portion Like you remember thoselike dark, lonely days of like
(19:43):
what am I going to do?
You know?
Portia Mount (19:45):
we are.
We were just out there tryingto survive.
We were literally, we wereliterally trying to survive.
Julie Goff (19:51):
Yes.
Portia Mount (19:53):
Yes.
Julie Goff (19:53):
Yes, it was so surreal and it's like talk about
we can look back and start tolaugh now.
But but now I mean, but then itwas just it was scary.
So I think experience gives youthat acumen, gives you that
appreciation for the complexityof things, but also, I think,
just reminds you that you haveto be able to step up and make
decisions right, like you're notgoing to have perfect
(20:14):
information, you're going to doyour best to care for your team,
but it's like they're going toget support from other places
too.
Right, and so I think you justgain a respect for sort of the
things are not as easy as theymight seem.
You know it's easy to criticizewhen you're maybe earlier in
your career.
It's much harder to lead.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (20:34):
You know 100%, and it's not easy to
create products, but it's easierto create a product than it is
to build the infrastructure forscale yes, With all the people
that need to mobilize thisorganization, whereas you step
into a company that 200 yearsold, it's well oiled, so they're
challenged in there, but you'renot creating that culture.
So, yeah, it's a different setof skills.
(20:56):
That's good.
Portia Mount (20:58):
Yeah, julie, I want to pull on this thread of
just the transition fromentrepreneurship to entrepreneur
, because I don't know that it'ssuper intuitive per se.
Was there an inflection pointfor you where you felt like,
okay, I've done all I can dowithin the confines of a nine to
(21:18):
five corporate structure andnow it's time for me to now go
and do my own thing?
I like to joke that socialmedia, twitter, llc, twitter
will have everyone think theycan build a billion dollar
business like unicorn startup.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (21:34):
Right and the reality, you know like but
we should all be buildingstartups.
Portia Mount (21:38):
if you just follow like seven or eight people on X
, I'm sorry, x and you know, butthe reality is and talk, and
talk, oh my.
God I forgot about.
I forgot about LLC.
Ted talk, you know, the realityis the entrepreneur.
Streets are not for everybody.
Some people need to stay on thesidewalks, and that's totally
okay, and so it just was there a?
(22:01):
Was there a moment or an event,or was it just a natural
progression, Like what flippedthe switch in your head, to say,
okay, I'm just going to go forit?
Julie Goff (22:13):
I love that question and I think it's an inflection
point, or maybe several, that weall have to kind of like
grapple with.
I think for me.
You know I was, I was workingat Davidson College and I
actually helped build out ourCenter for Innovation and
Entrepreneurship.
Tiffany got to see part of that.
Portia Mount (22:28):
It's an amazing place, by the way, it's amazing
place.
Thank you, yeah.
Julie Goff (22:34):
I think it's as an alumni and as as someone who
helped create it, you know.
So I think I think justswimming in those waters right
starts to give you the bug alittle bit.
Also, when I left corporateAmerica, I went to work for
Davidson College.
I had four roles in six years,which meant I wasn't getting
fired, but I was always doingthe next thing that the college
(22:55):
needed done right.
I sort of built a littlereputation for myself, which was
, I don't know, good or bad, butI think when I left corporate
America I went to work forDavidson, I was going to lead a
specific project.
We had a $2 million grant.
We had an idea to build aneducation technology project,
and so what that did for me waslike there's an idea, there's
(23:16):
capital in the bank, now I justget to go build it right, that's
that's like a startup.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:21):
That's a dream.
Julie Goff (23:22):
But I'm not doing it with with all the risks.
So I feel like my careerjourney has been like I'm slowly
taking off all the trainingwheels, you know.
So by the time we we builtMunch the Hub.
I think that experience showedme I'm a builder, I'm not an
operator.
Right, that really became clearfor me that I have to be
building and creating Tiffany.
(23:43):
This will probably not surpriseyou, but when I was at Davidson
I did my Clifton StrengthsFinder, which you are a huge
proponent, yes, and my numberone is achiever.
Portia Mount (23:53):
So relatable relatable, yes, I'm sure we all
have that.
Yeah, it's like get it done.
Get it done by any meansnecessary, and then onto the
next, and then onto the next newthing.
Onto the next new thing.
Now we, you know we needsomeone else to optimize.
So you know, you build and thenyou onto the next new thing.
Let somebody else optimize.
(24:13):
Yeah, yes.
Julie Goff (24:15):
But I think that was the thing.
And then I had someone else sayto me kind of along that way,
they're like you know, I justturned 40 this year and someone
said, like you know, 35 to 45are like some of your best
working years, right, you've gotexperience, you still got
energy, and like you want tobuild something.
And I was like, well, I'mhalfway through that, what am I
(24:35):
going to do, you know?
So I think that sort of gave methe permission to say, if not
now, when, right.
And I think it came from aplace of like I'm going to do it
, afraid, but I'm not going tolive with regret because I tried
it.
I love that.
Yes, all of us could go get ajob, right, like, if needed, I
(24:55):
could go get a job.
But if not now, when?
And if I want to look back onthis part of my life and say,
you know, I took the risks, youknow, in a smart way, but I took
the risks and I'm not lookingback with regret.
I think when you grow up in thecorporate environment, you have
a lot of friends who are stillthere.
No, you know, it's not a badplace for everyone, but I think
(25:17):
there are a lot of people thatare there as they don't know
where else to go.
They don't know how else tolike, parlay their skills or
what else is out there.
And these are, you know, atHireBrain, we talk about, like,
your work is how you spend yourday.
Right, these are, this is yourendeavor, these are the best you
know, months, years of yourlife like.
Let's be thoughtful about it.
(25:39):
You know, and that's why we'repassionate about hiring managers
, because they play a huge rolein that equation and don't
always have the preparation tomake good calls.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (25:48):
I'm still thinking about whoever told you
that you have the most energy 35to 45, I want to know where
they got the energy from,because I'm very tired.
Portia Mount (25:58):
Well, and I'm saying and I'm over 45 and I
have a ton of energy, of course,I have.
I have a ton of energy as maybethe only over 45 on this here
pod.
So it does you know.
But it's probably directlyproportionate to how old your
kids are or whether you havekids I hope it's not true.
If you have kids, you are tiredall the damn time.
(26:19):
Let's just put it out there,that's right 100%.
Julie Goff (26:24):
Well, it was.
It was enough to like kind ofget in my crawl and make me
think about it differently.
So, yeah, I think I think thatwas it, and I think I'll also
say the other inflection pointright, there's.
There's the moment and I don'tknow if you all have experienced
this, but there's the momentthat we leave, right when we're
like, well, I don't know what'son the other side of this, but
we're leaving.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:42):
And then there's the moment that you like
settle in, right, yeah.
Julie Goff (26:46):
And I think the settling in moment, honestly if
I'm honest, it was more recentright when I'm like, okay, we've
hit snags, we've had successes,we've had failures, but we're
still around, we're stillkicking, we're still winning.
Business Like this is notperfect yet, but we're going to
keep going.
And you start to like feel thatlike we're settling in, we're
doing the thing, as opposed toliving on the roller coaster.
(27:09):
Right Like, as an entrepreneur,you tie your identity, your
financial security right To justlike the day to day of a
business, and that isunsustainable.
So the settling in, the havingkind of the like confidence to
say like, even if it doesn'twork out, I'll still be okay,
that's a different inflectionpoint and that's when I felt
(27:31):
like I became a trueentrepreneur.
If that makes sense.
Portia Mount (27:34):
Yeah, it makes a ton of sense.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (27:35):
If there was one lesson, Julie, that you
could give someone who'sthinking about taking that leap,
like having their leap moment,what would it be?
Julie Goff (27:44):
You're never going to have all the answers that you
want to have, like Portia, toyour point, like, you're never
going to be able to de-risk thewhole equation.
Right, it is a risk and soyou're going to have to do it
afraid, but it's also helpful tothink about the worst that
could happen.
Right, I don't recommendanybody like you know, mortgage
(28:05):
or help, like, do things asthoughtfully and as responsibly
as you can, but there's stillrisk involved and even if it
doesn't work out, you will stillbe okay.
Right, I work with a lot of ourcustomers at HireBrain, our
enterprise companies, large,large companies, and we're
working in the talent space, thetalent acquisition space.
So I'm also starting to hear allthese stories about
(28:27):
entrepreneurs who have gottenhired into corporations that
used to be a faux pas.
Right, like, you started abusiness.
It failed, you know, we're justgoing to like, set you out to
pasture for the rest of yourlife, and now I'm meeting people
that are like runningengineering divisions and like
had a startup five years ago.
Right, so, like, I think theexperience is starting to be
more like normalized into ourculture and into our workplaces
(28:50):
and so you're not riskingeverything.
If you take the leap right.
There is a path to go, I think,in and out of corporate America
, your whole career, if you needto.
Right, and that's becoming, Ithink, a career journey that's
more common and people don'tmind right, and as long as you
keep those connections, andworking as a startup with an
enterprise is not that muchdifferent than working at a.
I mean there are differences,but same skills, right, I'm
(29:13):
still bringing the same skillsto a startup, a vendor that's
serving a global enterprise, asI would a leader in the
enterprise, right?
Portia Mount (29:21):
I will say, julie, though it's you know, having
just I was just recently in techand prior to that, industrial
manufacturing, and we wouldoften acquire companies that
were run by founders, and one ofthe I thought the interesting
observation that I found wasthat those found like it was
great for the company, theacquiring company, but the
(29:43):
founders invariably felt alittle stifled by going, you
know, especially if they hadbeen in corporate environments
before or had never experiencedit and felt like, oh my God,
like there's so many rules hereand everything moves so slow and
why?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (29:58):
you know why do.
Portia Mount (29:59):
I have to go through, like you know, three
months of procurement to get a,you know, a pack of pencils and
some post-its, and so I lovewhat.
I love what you say about,because I think it's absolutely
true.
Right, You're seeing morepermeability between the sort of
the walls of entrepreneurship,corporate and that culture.
(30:21):
Fit sometimes works, sometimesdoesn't, for the entrepreneur
especially.
And I'm curious if you'veobserved entrepreneurs feeling
like you know what.
This was great, I got a regularpaycheck for a while, but let
me go ahead and figure out howto get back outside into, you
know, because I suspect, likethe entrepreneurs that I know,
(30:44):
once they've been on their own,they have very little desire to
go and work.
It's maybe it's the concept ofworking for somebody else and
like putting in hard work forsomebody else versus for
themselves.
I just want to give aperspective on that.
Julie Goff (30:58):
Yeah, well, I think, I think in some ways, you know,
our society has sort ofglamorized entrepreneurship or
startups or like you know thehockey stick growth, and the
reality is like it's not foreverybody, and so I.
I think it's remarkable whenpeople try it and say this isn't
for me, I'm going to go backand bring my skill set to it.
You know, like that's.
That's a totally fine thing.
(31:18):
Yeah, let's normalize that.
Yes, yes, and these companiesare getting remarkable talent as
a result, right?
If you run your own business andkeep payroll going and keep
keep the business capitalizedand sell things like you are a
better employee, whatever teamyou're running, when you go back
(31:39):
to a corporation, right?
So, normalize it all day long,hire those people all day long,
yeah.
But I think, portia, to yourpoint, the people that truly
have the bug, right, it's justlike they're, they can never go
back, right?
Yeah, I just think those, thosepeople will.
They're going to, they're goingto be the people that start two
, three companies in theircareer right, and so I think
(31:59):
that that's going to be.
That's just going to be how theyhave to live their life.
I think what I appreciate aboutour like my founder and I both
spent, like my founder spenttime at Oracle, cisco, so he, he
has lived that life, he has runglobal teams, so it makes us so
much better when we're sittingin front of you know enterprise
executives, we know theirstruggles right, or at least we
can relate right.
(32:20):
We know what kind of whatthey're up against, we can speak
that language and then I lovethat we get to work with the
entrepreneurs at those companies, right, yeah.
As a startup we're bringing thesolutions that speak to the
things they're trying to solveand they get jazzed.
We get jazzed right, we get towork together.
So I think, like being anentrepreneur who's been in that
(32:42):
seat makes you far more prepared, I think, to bring good
solutions, to speak thatlanguage and to really resonate
with their struggles.
Portia Mount (32:51):
So, julie, this is we get to like our most
favorite.
This is the most popular partof the pod, or is the lightning
round, and are you ready?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (33:01):
I'm ready.
Portia Mount (33:04):
And so this is a.
This is a lot, tends to be alot of fun for our listeners and
so question.
So we talked about mindset theoutset of this conversation.
Is there a favorite motto orphrase that you have that
defines your mindset?
Julie Goff (33:22):
Yes, it was the motto that I shared earlier
about courage begets courage.
Portia Mount (33:28):
Yeah, I love that.
Julie Goff (33:29):
I love that.
That's been true, true for me.
And like we don't get to bigthings overnight, like we've got
to learn to trust ourselves,and I think, as women, we think
courage is, you know, big,massive, grand things, and I
think courage actually happensin the smaller moments, you know
.
Portia Mount (33:49):
So important, so important.
It's a good reminder.
We feel like we need to makequantum, but sometimes it's the
incremental that is equallypowerful.
I love that Totally.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (33:59):
Okay, next question You're accepting a
huge award.
What is your walk on song?
I love this song.
Julie Goff (34:06):
I'm a huge music fan , but mine would be the
beginning of Nine to Five byDolly Parton, or it's like you
know, and I don't know if youknow all this, but the
percussion that she does in thatsong are her fingernails on the
keyboard.
No, I had no idea.
Yes, that's how.
I I didn't know that she cameup with that, because if you
(34:28):
listen to the song, it soundslike someone, just kind of like.
Portia Mount (34:31):
I learned something new.
Julie Goff (34:32):
Oh, my God.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (34:32):
I just thought that was like a ball and
movement.
Portia Mount (34:34):
I gotta go back and listen to this now.
This is gonna be great.
This is gonna be great for, bythe way we're putting, we're
gonna have a Spotify playlist ofall these songs, so I'm just
super excited about this.
This is why.
Julie Goff (34:43):
I had no idea.
Portia Mount (34:44):
And.
Julie Goff (34:44):
I have a coffee mug that's called Cup of Ambition.
So Dolly really gets meenergized.
I, you know we loved her.
I have to say we love DollyParton.
Portia Mount (34:53):
We love us some Dolly Parton.
She is like a phenomenal person.
I don't know if you saw herrecently she did like a guest
thing with the Dallas Cowboycheerleaders and she had like a
whole little Dallas Cowboycheerleader.
We will have to link to that inthe show notes, because she had
on the full outfit it was.
It was pretty amazing, I loveme some Dolly, I love her.
Julie Goff (35:16):
She was doing the thing she was doing, it she
continues to.
Portia Mount (35:19):
I think she's like 77 years old, so she's a
goddess and I learned somethingnew about her, which is even a
double bonus, okay, julie.
So here's the next questionwhat book do you find yourself
gifting or recommendingrepeatedly?
We are big readers, the squadreads a lot, and so I'm super
curious about this what do youread, what?
What do you?
I came prepared with props.
Yes, I love that.
Julie Goff (35:40):
Oh, my God, I love this book, but I haven't.
Portia Mount (35:42):
I haven't read it yet.
Somebody recommended it to me,so I just bought it.
I love that and I haven't readit.
Okay, I'm going to read it overthe break.
Julie Goff (35:48):
Scouts honor, scouts honor.
Okay, I'm totally doing it.
So, for those who are listening, so for those who are listening
, this is called.
It's called designing your life.
It's a few years old, so it'sbeen around for a while and it
was written by the twoprofessors at Stanford that
really took kind of the theStanford D school design
thinking and kind of reallybrought that to their.
(36:11):
Oh, there you go.
Portia Mount (36:12):
Tiffany you've got .
Oh, I wish I could get up andgo and grab my copy so we could
all hold up our copies together.
Julie Goff (36:18):
I love that we all own this book.
That must be a lot of reasons Ilove it.
Portia Mount (36:21):
Oh, but only two.
But only two of us not me haveactually read the book.
So you know, I'm going to goread it, though I promise,
tiffany and Julie, I promise.
Sorry about that.
Julie Goff (36:29):
So thinking about this idea of mindset, like these
Stanford professors wereapplying design thinking to all
of these business problems andsocial problems, right, and then
they actually created a courseat Stanford called I think it's
designing your first year orsomething.
So it's like helping use designthinking for Stanford students
to chart their learning for thefour years that they're there.
And then they took it to thenext step, which is like using
(36:50):
design thinking to think aboutyour life plan, and so I love
how this sort of breaks downthinking about your future, your
next step, into kind of thatdesign thinking, experimentation
mindset.
So it's very actionable.
Every chapter you read you thencan do homework like a
journaling exercise or something.
And I think when we pick upcareer books or like
(37:12):
inspirational books, sometimesit's just sort of you're
supposed to glean the wisdomfrom somebody's story, right,
which isn't a bad thing.
But this is so actionable that,like when people, especially my
female friends, when they'restuck in a career situation, I
give them this book because it'sso actionable for you, you will
be unstuck by the time youfinish this book.
Portia Mount (37:30):
That is an endorsement.
Julie Goff (37:32):
What an endorsement I know they're not paying me, I
just.
I've given this book away a lotof times.
Portia Mount (37:38):
Well, they should, they should, Julie.
Julie Goff (37:41):
Yeah, just send me more so I can give them away.
But I think it's also somethingyou could do every couple of
years, right Cause our lives arenot static, so it just I feel
like it's and it's talking abouthow to build a life, not a
career.
I think, especially as women,we sort of get honed in on the
career and then everything elsekind of has to fit around it.
At least, I think that's how wesort of begin our careers and
(38:02):
then life happens.
But I think this is helping yousort of proactively think about
, like all elements of your lifeand kind of where you want to
be, and so I highly recommend it.
Excellent recommendation.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:12):
All right, Julie.
What is the best purchase under150 bucks you've ever made?
Julie Goff (38:19):
Ever?
This is a hard question, recent.
I'll answer it recently not tofeel like stereotypical, but my
Stanley has been amazing.
I drink so much water.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:30):
Mine's not on my desk, but I also have one
.
Julie Goff (38:34):
I resisted the trend for a long time and then when
the North Carolina summer hitwhere you're like I can have
cold water all the time I gottaget one.
Portia Mount (38:41):
Oh my God, it keeps your water cold for like
days.
It's unreal.
Tiffany told me about thisStanley cup and she was like,
yeah, it's like this cup thatinfluencers are talking about.
And I was like that soundstotally stupid.
And then I was like I wastotally being derisive.
I was totally derisive andjudgmental and then and Tiffany
(39:04):
would be like that Tiffany waslike that's par for the course
for Porsche.
And then I was getting somestuff.
I was at Academy Sports andthere was like a wall of Stanley
cups.
I was getting stuff from my sonand I was like, huh, well,
maybe God, it's like 40 bucks.
It seems kind of expensive, butall right, I'll get one.
Oh my God, I am totally sold.
Tiffany, I apologize to you infront of our squad in front of
(39:26):
our squad audience, that I waswrong and you were right, Julie.
Thank you, thank you.
That's okay, I owe the sameapology.
Yeah, hook us up, stanley.
Hook us up.
We love your cups.
Hook us up.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (39:39):
Yeah, Okay .
What is a secret?
Unpopular opinion that you hold.
Portia Mount (39:46):
Okay, I cannot wait for you to answer this.
Julie Goff (39:49):
I actually had a hard time with this question.
Portia Mount (39:51):
No, this is like the most fun question.
This is a safe space, julie?
Tell us, tell us, I know.
Julie Goff (39:59):
I think watching movies are a waste of time.
What'd you say?
I think watching movies are awaste of time Like I just can't.
I can't sit down, I know, oh, Ican't.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (40:10):
Any kind.
What about inside out?
What about inside out?
Portia Mount (40:13):
It's very emotional, Tiffany, you can't
just like start throwing outrandom movies Like, well, what
about this movie?
That is not the point of this.
Tiffany is going to go.
She's got a long list of moviesthat she wants you to like.
Confirm or disconfirm thatthey're going to be on.
Julie Goff (40:27):
Confirm that they're a waste of time, the reason I'm
a podcast audible fiend,because I can like do other
things while I'm listening, andthat's probably more of a
sickness Fair Than you know anattribute, but it is what it is.
I am who I am.
Portia Mount (40:40):
I love it and I love how you're resilient about
that.
You're like that's who.
That's just who I am, that'sjust who I am.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (40:47):
You can speed up audibles and pod to
more efficiently get throughthem too.
You can't really do that with amovie.
Portia Mount (40:53):
Just diversion.
I don't understand CauseTiffany mentioned this, julie,
that she will speak.
You're like not the only person, tiffany, that will speed up a
audio book so that they canlisten to it faster, and I don't
understand the logic of that atall.
You don't have to explain it,I'm just saying I'm just putting
it out there, not a lot, justlike 1.2.
Why?
(41:14):
Why?
I don't understand that, though.
Like what is the logic Tolisten faster it?
Julie Goff (41:21):
makes it shorter more.
I just need to be multitasking,so if I'm walking the dog and
listening to a podcast, I feellike I've got the double time
going.
Portia Mount (41:29):
You've got, so it's like a it's like your
productivity hack.
I will just tell you, julie,like I watch a lot of movies and
I find myself watching the samemovie over like several times,
because I am multitasking andnot paying attention to it, and
my husband will be like haven'tyou watched this movie Like
three times.
I'm like, yeah, but I was doinglike seven things and so, yeah,
(41:49):
there's something to that, yeah,okay, so I love that is an
amazing.
I love that one.
I'm going to really be curiousabout what the squad says says
about this unpopular opinion,but I love it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (42:02):
Okay, so you don't have to apologize.
Portia Mount (42:03):
Own fully own your belief that watching movies is
a waste of time.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (42:07):
Own it, embrace it, embrace it, embrace
it.
Portia Mount (42:11):
Okay, so last question for you is what is a
hobby that you have that wouldsurprise people who know you.
Julie Goff (42:20):
This is also a little bit of a hard one, but
I'm going to share the one thatcame to mind.
So every summer, I host aseries of backyard garden
dinners at my house and hook usup next summer, come on, come on
.
But I also feel like just tokind of put a bow on our whole
conversation.
Like I started it in 2015because I needed, like, a
(42:42):
creative outlet, I invited 10people over, I cooked a meal
with local produce and I waslike maybe I'll do this again,
maybe I won't.
Everybody loved it and theywanted me to do it again and it
turned into a summer series.
So I was doing three a year.
I got a friend to come help me.
Now we are up to four a year,30 people per meal, per meal.
(43:05):
I have a team of four thathelps me.
Portia Mount (43:08):
So this is amazing .
This is totally amazing.
Julie Goff (43:11):
I started small.
I borrowed some tables, I gotsome bargain bin napkins at
World Market, just threw ittogether, didn't spend a lot of
money, and just like sort ofiterated my way to something
that now is a tradition that welove.
Yeah, stealing this idea.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (43:27):
Okay, can I just say I've been following
these harvest dinners on socialAt least.
I know when you started andwhen I moved to my most recent
home I told a friend I reallywant to get a huge outdoor table
so I can have harvest dinnersin my backyard like someone I
know.
And it was you, Like you'veinspired me to do this.
Portia Mount (43:46):
This is amazing.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (43:48):
I think the idea of coming together at a
table is top tier and I lovethat you've stuck with it and
it's building community.
Portia Mount (43:56):
Yeah, 100%.
I love that too.
Julie Goff (43:59):
It's allowing me the opportunity to be creative, but
, at the end of the day, all myother skill sets project
management, all those thingshelp as well.
But yeah, I think that was likesomething I'm really proud of,
obviously, and something that'spulled a lot of different.
I also think courage begetscourage, but also creativity
begets creativity.
Right, if you put your creativething out there 100%.
(44:20):
It's just going to attractother people's creative things
and I don't think everythingwell.
So I want the person who makesbread to bring their bread.
I want the person who lovesmusic to create a playlist Right
.
Portia Mount (44:30):
I love this so much and cannot wait for my
invitation to your one of yourharvest dinners.
Julie Goff (44:36):
All right, when you do this, I'm already inviting
myself over Tiffany I love itBecause I want to steal this
idea, but I need to experienceone first.
Portia Mount (44:46):
I love it.
No, in all seriousness, I lovethis concept.
How cool, how cool 2024.
Julie Goff (44:50):
Summer 2024.
Portia Mount (44:51):
2024.
Let's go, let's lock it in.
Julie Goff, it has been such awonderful pleasure to have you
here on the pod.
Thank you so much.
We hope that we'll you'll comeback and just thank you for all
the wonderful insights onintrapreneurship.
I hope that our squad you knowone, I think just some of your
wisdom around courage, aroundtaking small steps, around the
(45:16):
opportunities that it createsfor career expansion, for
learning, for growth and also,you know, sharing your a bit of
your own journey.
It's just been lovely to haveyou here today.
We appreciate you so much.
Julie Goff (45:27):
Oh, thank you and thank you all so much.
I love what you're doing, thankyou.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (45:31):
Thanks, julie.
Portia Mount (46:01):
And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at the
manifesta and tip talk at themanifesta pod See you next time.
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a
career and lifestyle podcastfor aspiring women.
I'm Portia Mount.
Join me and my co-host, tiffanyWaddell-Tate, this season on
our mission to help women findtheir purpose, lead high-impact
careers and live fulfillingpersonal lives by sharing the
stories of women who've carvedtheir own path to success.
(00:23):
The future is female.
Let's get started.
Well, hello squad.
Our guest today is Julie Goff,chief Operating Officer at
HireBrain.
Julie is an entrepreneur turnedentrepreneur, with a career at
the intersection of people andtechnology.
She has led technologyinitiatives of varying sizes and
(00:45):
scales at the enterprise leveland zero to one launches, and
throughout her work, she remainsever curious about how
technology can help make us more, not less, human.
I love the sound of that.
Now you're probably wonderingwhat is HireBrain.
Hirebrain is a B2B SaaS platformuniquely designed for hiring
(01:06):
managers to assist in the everchallenging work of planning
roles, hiring talent, buildingefficient teams with accuracy
and reliability, and if you area people manager, you know how
important this is.
Hirebrain leverages AI to helpenterprises create role specific
profiles, effective andequitable job descriptions,
interview guides and so muchmore.
(01:27):
You can learn more aboutHireBrain at wwwhirebraincom and
you can follow Julie on Twitter.
We still call it Twitter, butwe know it's X at Julia Pete
Goff and LinkedIn at Julie Goff,and so you will also see these
in the show notes, as always, sothat you can both follow Julie
(01:50):
and also take a look atHireBrain.
Welcome, julie, so great tohave you, thank you.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (01:56):
Yeah, Julie.
So this episode is all aboutentrepreneurship at work, but I
think it's important that wedefine what that means for our
listeners.
How would you describeentrepreneurship and what it
means to you?
Julie Goff (02:09):
Well, I love that question, and I first have to
kind of laugh at the notion thatwe're having a podcast on
entrepreneurship, because I cameto that.
I discovered that wordrelatively late in my career,
relative to the work I was doing, so I don't know where I was or
what I was doing at the time,but I just remember hearing it
for the first time and havingthis like moment of like oh my
(02:32):
goodness, there's a word thatdescribes me, right, somebody
gets it, and I did a littleresearch this morning about the
origin of that word andapparently it came about in the
70s, like I didn't even know,and so I just heard it in my
travels as I was doing the workthat I was passionate about, and
I was like an entrepreneur.
(02:52):
That is what I am.
I love it.
There's a word for me.
I'm not just weird, but I thinkthe way that I would define it
and it's interesting and kind ofreassuring that my definition
matches up with, maybe, the waythe world would define it but I
think it's a person who is justnaturally curious, right?
We know that this is true aboutentrepreneurs especially, right
(03:14):
?
They just have that burning.
Oh my gosh, this is a problemthat I have to solve, right, I
have to stop everything, and Ithink that can.
Still, if you're naturallycurious, that's going to show up
no matter what environmentyou're in, right.
And so I think if you're doinggood work at a corporation and
you're close to a business, abusiness with challenges, a
(03:34):
business with potential, right,you're going to be curious, see
ways that things can be donebetter.
If you're a curious person,you're going to be curious
outside of work as well, right,and you're going to start to
connect dots and ask questionsand think about things.
And so I think an entrepreneuror somebody who's going to bring
that curiosity to their day jobis not going to be afraid to
(03:56):
with the right respect, right,and posture, ask questions,
think about how things could bedone differently and then not be
afraid to take on the doingright.
I think it's easy inside of alarger organization where there
are a lot of problems, to begrumpy, to complain, and that's
that doesn't cut it for me,right.
Like I think, if you're goingto be an entrepreneur, you have
(04:17):
to see where it's broken and beready to help solve the problems
.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (04:21):
It sounds like being super curious and
someone who is not justidentifying problems and calling
them out, but looking forsolutions probably means that
you come up with a lot of bigideas.
You're probably on the cuttingedge of innovation and just
driving creativity at a reallyfast speed.
So I'm wondering, when youthink about harnessing that
(04:44):
mindset inside of anorganization, how does it
contribute to company cultureand how does it contribute to
your career right, especially asan ambitious woman?
Julie Goff (04:55):
Yeah, so at any big organization, I think,
especially early in your career,as you're sort of getting into
the business, learning thecompany, learning how to do what
you do, there's this sort ofidea that the C-suite has it all
figured out right.
Portia Mount (05:10):
They do not.
People, they do not.
Julie Goff (05:13):
The board is going to lead us on a flawless path to
growth.
Right, and especially when youget into those leadership
positions and you realize howlittle we know.
Right, leadership is making thebest decisions in the moment
with the information that youhave.
Right, and being sort ofcourageous enough to keep going.
And I think as entrepreneurs wecan be the people that have the
creative space right, theenergy, to look at these
(05:36):
problems and think about themcreatively, because our C-suite
often is dealing with so muchyou know they're living in kind
of that cognitive poverty state.
That's not good for creativity,right, and that's just reality.
Right, if you're leading thecompany, you don't necessarily
have the bandwidth, the time,the ability to take a step back
(05:58):
and sort of think creatively andtinker.
So, as an entrepreneur, right,the day to day is off your
shoulders.
You can look sort of with fresheyes at problems and sort of
bring that creativity, thatinnovation to a particular
problem.
And I think I like the wordmindset, because that means lots
of people have to be thinkingthat way at the same time.
(06:19):
Right, and I think companiesare going to take that step
forward when you have a lot ofpeople thinking that way across
a lot of different problems andareas of the business.
Right, it can't just be kind ofthe one person coming in with
the savior, you know, complex orwhatever and trying to fix
everything that's broken.
All of us have to be curiousand creative at the same time,
(06:41):
so I think that's where themindset is crucial.
Portia Mount (06:44):
I really want to dig into the mindset piece more,
Julie, because, as someone whospent many years in corporate
America, one of the things I'venoticed is that I call it the
not my circus, not my monkey'sattitude.
It's like.
It's a survival mechanism,right Of like.
Oh my god, I just need to do myjob.
Let me not get involved in like.
(07:06):
There's no shortage ofchallenges or problems inside of
companies, and that's alsomassive opportunity for the
right kind of person, and youhave to have this mindset that
you're talking about.
Of like.
It's not just finding problems,but also thinking about how you
(07:28):
can create opportunities.
I would also add create value,right, Because not every problem
that's out there is worthy ofbeing solved, and so the
question really is how do you,is that from your standpoint?
Is there a blueprint or stepsthat one might think about to
identify those challenges andturn them into opportunities?
(07:51):
Even just thinking about yourown experience, Somebody who's
early in their career might belike oh, that's great, how do I
do that?
What kind of practical stepscan someone take?
Julie Goff (08:03):
Yeah, I often think these things start very small,
right.
Like if you see an opportunityon your team where something's
broken and you can bring maybe anew piece of technology to your
team, that's going to say we'regoing to work harder I mean,
we're going to be smarter onthis issue, not harder, because
look at this piece of technologythat I found that's fantastic,
it's going to solve our problem.
(08:23):
And then I think, once you do afew of those right, you gain
trust you yourself, especiallyas women, right.
Like I think we have to buildour courage right, and I love
kind of one of my mottoes islike courage begets courage,
right.
So I think you probably coachwomen this way too.
Like you got to take thatlittle step and put yourself out
there and oh, ok, I didn't die,nobody fired me, ok, nobody
(08:46):
died, nobody died, nobody died,nobody died.
Portia Mount (08:49):
I am not doing surgery on anybody Now you, it's
like it's yeah.
Julie Goff (08:53):
I love that.
That was one of my favoritemoments in my corporate career
was we were like on a conferencecall like 6 PM on a Friday
night and everyone wasfrustrated.
We couldn't figure it out.
And somebody it was like thiswoman from Boston and she was
like you know what?
Everybody go home get a drink.
Nobody's on the table bleedingout.
We can figure this out.
On Monday I was like levityalways get, I love that it just
(09:14):
it puts it in perspective reallyquickly.
But I think it's that notion ofkind of building your own
confidence and courage, right,and again knowing that, like the
higher ups don't have it allfigured out.
So your original ideas are good, right.
And then I think it's alsotesting out if you're in the
right environment where that'sgoing to be embraced or rewarded
(09:35):
right Because.
I think I say this fromexperience.
If you are in a situation whereyou're trying to be creative,
curious, bring ideas to thetable and nobody's having it
like you're going to burnyourself back so fast.
Fall back, Fall back right, Iknow, and you kind of have to,
like, in a corporate environmentyou're going to hit some
natural resistance just becauseof how big you know it's a big
(09:58):
organization, right, a lot ofbig shift to turn.
So you kind of have to take thelong game approach.
I think, if you're anentrepreneur in a lot of
respects but you know thedifference, right, you know the
difference.
If you're in a place where yourideas are absolutely unwelcome,
or if you're OK, did a good jobon this, let's give it the next
thing.
And I think, if you're drivenlike this, if you're an
(10:21):
entrepreneur at heart, like ifyou can't turn off that
curiosity and you're in a placelike that, go see Tiffany and
find your next role, becauseit's maddening, right, You're
going to drive yourself nuts.
And then, conversely, if youfind yourself in a place where
that is embraced, wow, like youare just energized and excited
(10:42):
and building those muscles andseeing what's possible, right.
So I think those are.
That's really kind of theblueprint I would think about
right, the small to the next, tothe big, to the big, and then
the ultimate is likeentrepreneurship, right, I love
that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (10:57):
Yeah, julie, I am curious when you
talk about context where ithasn't been welcome or it hasn't
been encouraged to be curiousand work in this way.
What are some indicators thatthe place or the space does not
have the capacity for that typeof mindset, and can you share a
time where you saw this show upin your career and what you did
(11:20):
about it?
Julie Goff (11:21):
Yeah, I mean, I think for me I have joke, but it
was true, like for me, kind ofthe aha moment was like I
started to get in trouble and Imean, obviously I'm a rule
follower, I hate breaking rules,but I think if you're a
creative sort of like personwith ingenuity inside a big
organization and if you'reyounger in your career right,
(11:41):
and you have ideas sometimes,that's welcome.
But if you're in a place thatit's not welcome, you're gonna
get your hands slapped and thatdoes not feel good.
No, and so I sort of joke.
I was like I realized it wastime for me to go when I started
getting in trouble, because Iwasn't doing anything wrong, but
I just had too many ideas forthe spot I was in, and so I
(12:02):
think that that's probably agood indication For me.
I experienced some of this whenI was in banking in the mid
2000s, right, and that was atime where the financial crisis
was hitting the economy, wastaking like fear was the only
emotion that we had inside of abank at that time, right, and so
(12:23):
I think we all are gonna beinside companies where our
industry hits certain road bumps, et cetera, and fear is just
like from the top down, fear isjust gonna be everywhere, and so
that is usually a time whencreativity, curiosity, is just
you can't speak up, right, youjust kind of have to put your
head down into your work.
So I think for me, I in thatsituation realized I needed to
(12:47):
like just put my head down anddo my work, you know, but big
picture as kind of that, thattime sort of started to lift and
things were getting better andI was thinking about my next
move, like I think I realized,okay, I need to be in a place,
whether it's inside acorporation or somewhere else,
where I can be, have morefreedom to move and to execute
(13:08):
on these ideas.
Portia Mount (13:10):
I wonder also, julie, you gave the example of
being in banking highlyregulated industry If you're
working in pharmaceuticals againhighly regulated and so I also
wonder if the tolerance and thenif you're at a legacy brand, if
you're a?
Tiffany and I both worked for acompany that was almost 200
years old and had a long, longhistory, a very, very specific
(13:31):
way of doing business as a LeanSix Sigma company.
So everything's verystandardized, very regimented,
and understanding theenvironment that you're in and
knowing that some environmentsdon't like that's, let's say,
creativity.
And, by the way, we shouldprobably talk a little bit about
what do we mean when we saycreativity?
Because sometimes we thinkabout it as being artistic, but
(13:52):
that's not.
I mean, creativity is actuallyvery broadly defined.
But I wonder and I've certainlyseen this in my own career of
really understanding yourenvironment and figuring out
where the boundaries are.
And you're right, and I loveyou use the word, like when I
started to get in trouble.
And I wonder for thoselistening who are newer in their
(14:13):
career, earlier in their career, it's like there are avenues,
but you've got to understand theculture that you're in and I
certainly know from experiencethat oftentimes there's that
like you need to earn yourstripes before you can run off
and create other ideas.
I will just say what I've seenwith like especially, you know,
(14:34):
our Gen Z team members.
They're like I don't want towait my turn, man, let me go.
You don't let me do my thing,I'm going to go someplace else.
That's legit.
That's legit Absolutely.
And you know, I wonder if wejust spend a minute talking
about just like.
There are avenues, but you'vegot to understand the
environment and the culture inwhich you're operating and then
(14:56):
you can decide.
You know what this, this place,isn't for me.
I'm going to go on to the nextthing, but I just wonder if you,
if you know, if you have aperspective on that.
Julie Goff (15:04):
I love that you said that, because it's so important
, so important, and it actuallyreminds me of when I was
graduating from college.
There was this organization inNorth Carolina, a nonprofit, and
I was just obsessed with themission.
I really wanted to go work forthem.
I think I interviewed with themfor three different roles.
None of that.
I didn't get any of them, and Iremember sitting across from a
VP when I was, you know, 21, 22years old, and she was like I
(15:28):
love your passion, go get someskills and come back.
Portia Mount (15:31):
And I was like this job will help me get the
skills right now.
We'll give me skills Hello.
Julie Goff (15:37):
Yes, I know, I know it's funny.
It's funny now.
Portia Mount (15:40):
It's not funny, then I know right, it hurts,
then it hurt back, then you canlaugh now though.
Julie Goff (15:45):
Right, that's great.
And it immediately informed mymy career path, right, I was
like, okay, I'm going to go geta job.
I mean, I'm in Charlotte, northCarolina, there's Wacovia,
there's Bank of America, let mego, let me go get a job there.
And it's not easy to get a jobthere, but that's what I started
pursuing.
I did get in there and kind ofstarted my career there.
(16:05):
Portia, I think what you said isabsolutely correct, like that
is a phenomenal place to cutyour teeth, to get experience,
to understand the unspokendynamics of an organization, how
to build relationships, how tohave an executive presence right
, I think all of those thingsare going to be so important
later on.
And you can't hone those skillsby yourself, right, you've got
to be inside an organization.
(16:26):
And I think you, in those days,you have to have humility,
right, you have to have thehumility to say, like I'm just a
kid, I'm just learning thisbusiness, right, but if you can
put yourself in situations whereyou have to learn quickly,
build those relationships, right, you're going to get so many
reps on those skills.
Portia Mount (16:44):
Yeah.
Julie Goff (16:44):
Yeah, that you know I always said, like by the time
I turn 30, I want to haveamassed all these different
skills that I can like okay,apply it anywhere.
I don't know where I'm going,but I'm just going to have this
sort of repertoire of skills.
I also went to law school in mytwenties at night, so it
allowed me to sort of just havethis like tool chest of things I
could go use, and I knew thatit would.
It would equip me for whateverI was going to do next and
(17:05):
wherever that passion led me, Iwas finally going to have the
skills to bring to it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (17:11):
You know, Julie, when I, when I think
about what you're saying, aboutcapturing the skills, building
your kind of word chestcapabilities, let's call it that
.
Julie Goff (17:20):
That's what I'm saying.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (17:25):
This idea of reading the tea leaves and
making sure that your ideas andyour passion, you're harnessing
it towards something that iscontributing value.
I think, Portia, you said thatearlier.
That's always true and nomatter what stage of your career
you're in, it's like I can havea really good idea or I could
see a quick solve to something,but is this quick solve
sustainable?
Does this quick solve help usdrive more revenue?
(17:46):
Does this quick solve mean weneed to move some people around
on this team because they're notgoing to make it once we
implement this new way?
You know like those are thehard question.
It's like the what are the newproblems that come about because
we're solving this one?
And I think, generationally.
There's all this conversationabout you know who's the
(18:09):
smartest, who's the hardestworking, and all this business.
But the question is the same,regardless of your life stage or
what part of the business thatyou're in, and so I think about.
You captured all these skills,you leverage them inside of a
big box organization, coupleother organizations that were a
little smaller, and then youflipped out into
(18:31):
entrepreneurship.
How has that work just beenhelpful for you now that you're
in this space?
Julie Goff (18:37):
Yeah, great question .
Well, like I said, I came tothat word entrepreneur kind of
late in my career and once Ifound it and grabbed hold to it,
the step to entrepreneurshipwas not that much farther right,
because I kind of was able tolike, frame and categorize
everything I had been doing in away that said oh, like I have
(18:58):
the skill set, I am ready forthis step.
I don't think I mean.
I know, tiffany, you and I knowplenty of successful
entrepreneurs in their twenties.
We taught and mentored many ofthem.
But like that wasn't me I knowthat wasn't me because I needed
to go get skills, learn somethings, develop that business
acumen right, like all of thosethings right.
Portia Mount (19:19):
Like my praise hands.
Julie Goff (19:20):
Yes, I mean every, every criticism that somebody
made of a leader during COVID.
I said, nope, you don't get tocriticize them because this is
freaking hard.
You know, there are so manycompeting priorities Like it is
just hard to be.
I was a leader at the time,took a new leader at the time
portion Like you remember thoselike dark, lonely days of like
(19:43):
what am I going to do?
You know?
Portia Mount (19:45):
we are.
We were just out there tryingto survive.
We were literally, we wereliterally trying to survive.
Julie Goff (19:51):
Yes.
Portia Mount (19:53):
Yes.
Julie Goff (19:53):
Yes, it was so surreal and it's like talk about
we can look back and start tolaugh now.
But but now I mean, but then itwas just it was scary.
So I think experience gives youthat acumen, gives you that
appreciation for the complexityof things, but also, I think,
just reminds you that you haveto be able to step up and make
decisions right, like you're notgoing to have perfect
(20:14):
information, you're going to doyour best to care for your team,
but it's like they're going toget support from other places
too.
Right, and so I think you justgain a respect for sort of the
things are not as easy as theymight seem.
You know it's easy to criticizewhen you're maybe earlier in
your career.
It's much harder to lead.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (20:34):
You know 100%, and it's not easy to
create products, but it's easierto create a product than it is
to build the infrastructure forscale yes, With all the people
that need to mobilize thisorganization, whereas you step
into a company that 200 yearsold, it's well oiled, so they're
challenged in there, but you'renot creating that culture.
So, yeah, it's a different setof skills.
(20:56):
That's good.
Portia Mount (20:58):
Yeah, julie, I want to pull on this thread of
just the transition fromentrepreneurship to entrepreneur
, because I don't know that it'ssuper intuitive per se.
Was there an inflection pointfor you where you felt like,
okay, I've done all I can dowithin the confines of a nine to
(21:18):
five corporate structure andnow it's time for me to now go
and do my own thing?
I like to joke that socialmedia, twitter, llc, twitter
will have everyone think theycan build a billion dollar
business like unicorn startup.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (21:34):
Right and the reality, you know like but
we should all be buildingstartups.
Portia Mount (21:38):
if you just follow like seven or eight people on X
, I'm sorry, x and you know, butthe reality is and talk, and
talk, oh my.
God I forgot about.
I forgot about LLC.
Ted talk, you know, the realityis the entrepreneur.
Streets are not for everybody.
Some people need to stay on thesidewalks, and that's totally
okay, and so it just was there a?
(22:01):
Was there a moment or an event,or was it just a natural
progression, Like what flippedthe switch in your head, to say,
okay, I'm just going to go forit?
Julie Goff (22:13):
I love that question and I think it's an inflection
point, or maybe several, that weall have to kind of like
grapple with.
I think for me.
You know I was, I was workingat Davidson College and I
actually helped build out ourCenter for Innovation and
Entrepreneurship.
Tiffany got to see part of that.
Portia Mount (22:28):
It's an amazing place, by the way, it's amazing
place.
Thank you, yeah.
Julie Goff (22:34):
I think it's as an alumni and as as someone who
helped create it, you know.
So I think I think justswimming in those waters right
starts to give you the bug alittle bit.
Also, when I left corporateAmerica, I went to work for
Davidson College.
I had four roles in six years,which meant I wasn't getting
fired, but I was always doingthe next thing that the college
(22:55):
needed done right.
I sort of built a littlereputation for myself, which was
, I don't know, good or bad, butI think when I left corporate
America I went to work forDavidson, I was going to lead a
specific project.
We had a $2 million grant.
We had an idea to build aneducation technology project,
and so what that did for me waslike there's an idea, there's
(23:16):
capital in the bank, now I justget to go build it right, that's
that's like a startup.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (23:21):
That's a dream.
Julie Goff (23:22):
But I'm not doing it with with all the risks.
So I feel like my careerjourney has been like I'm slowly
taking off all the trainingwheels, you know.
So by the time we we builtMunch the Hub.
I think that experience showedme I'm a builder, I'm not an
operator.
Right, that really became clearfor me that I have to be
building and creating Tiffany.
(23:43):
This will probably not surpriseyou, but when I was at Davidson
I did my Clifton StrengthsFinder, which you are a huge
proponent, yes, and my numberone is achiever.
Portia Mount (23:53):
So relatable relatable, yes, I'm sure we all
have that.
Yeah, it's like get it done.
Get it done by any meansnecessary, and then onto the
next, and then onto the next newthing.
Onto the next new thing.
Now we, you know we needsomeone else to optimize.
So you know, you build and thenyou onto the next new thing.
Let somebody else optimize.
(24:13):
Yeah, yes.
Julie Goff (24:15):
But I think that was the thing.
And then I had someone else sayto me kind of along that way,
they're like you know, I justturned 40 this year and someone
said, like you know, 35 to 45are like some of your best
working years, right, you've gotexperience, you still got
energy, and like you want tobuild something.
And I was like, well, I'mhalfway through that, what am I
(24:35):
going to do, you know?
So I think that sort of gave methe permission to say, if not
now, when, right.
And I think it came from aplace of like I'm going to do it
, afraid, but I'm not going tolive with regret because I tried
it.
I love that.
Yes, all of us could go get ajob, right, like, if needed, I
(24:55):
could go get a job.
But if not now, when?
And if I want to look back onthis part of my life and say,
you know, I took the risks, youknow, in a smart way, but I took
the risks and I'm not lookingback with regret.
I think when you grow up in thecorporate environment, you have
a lot of friends who are stillthere.
No, you know, it's not a badplace for everyone, but I think
(25:17):
there are a lot of people thatare there as they don't know
where else to go.
They don't know how else tolike, parlay their skills or
what else is out there.
And these are, you know, atHireBrain, we talk about, like,
your work is how you spend yourday.
Right, these are, this is yourendeavor, these are the best you
know, months, years of yourlife like.
Let's be thoughtful about it.
(25:39):
You know, and that's why we'repassionate about hiring managers
, because they play a huge rolein that equation and don't
always have the preparation tomake good calls.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (25:48):
I'm still thinking about whoever told you
that you have the most energy 35to 45, I want to know where
they got the energy from,because I'm very tired.
Portia Mount (25:58):
Well, and I'm saying and I'm over 45 and I
have a ton of energy, of course,I have.
I have a ton of energy as maybethe only over 45 on this here
pod.
So it does you know.
But it's probably directlyproportionate to how old your
kids are or whether you havekids I hope it's not true.
If you have kids, you are tiredall the damn time.
(26:19):
Let's just put it out there,that's right 100%.
Julie Goff (26:24):
Well, it was.
It was enough to like kind ofget in my crawl and make me
think about it differently.
So, yeah, I think I think thatwas it, and I think I'll also
say the other inflection pointright, there's.
There's the moment and I don'tknow if you all have experienced
this, but there's the momentthat we leave, right when we're
like, well, I don't know what'son the other side of this, but
we're leaving.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:42):
And then there's the moment that you like
settle in, right, yeah.
Julie Goff (26:46):
And I think the settling in moment, honestly if
I'm honest, it was more recentright when I'm like, okay, we've
hit snags, we've had successes,we've had failures, but we're
still around, we're stillkicking, we're still winning.
Business Like this is notperfect yet, but we're going to
keep going.
And you start to like feel thatlike we're settling in, we're
doing the thing, as opposed toliving on the roller coaster.
(27:09):
Right Like, as an entrepreneur,you tie your identity, your
financial security right To justlike the day to day of a
business, and that isunsustainable.
So the settling in, the havingkind of the like confidence to
say like, even if it doesn'twork out, I'll still be okay,
that's a different inflectionpoint and that's when I felt
(27:31):
like I became a trueentrepreneur.
If that makes sense.
Portia Mount (27:34):
Yeah, it makes a ton of sense.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (27:35):
If there was one lesson, Julie, that you
could give someone who'sthinking about taking that leap,
like having their leap moment,what would it be?
Julie Goff (27:44):
You're never going to have all the answers that you
want to have, like Portia, toyour point, like, you're never
going to be able to de-risk thewhole equation.
Right, it is a risk and soyou're going to have to do it
afraid, but it's also helpful tothink about the worst that
could happen.
Right, I don't recommendanybody like you know, mortgage
(28:05):
or help, like, do things asthoughtfully and as responsibly
as you can, but there's stillrisk involved and even if it
doesn't work out, you will stillbe okay.
Right, I work with a lot of ourcustomers at HireBrain, our
enterprise companies, large,large companies, and we're
working in the talent space, thetalent acquisition space.
So I'm also starting to hear allthese stories about
(28:27):
entrepreneurs who have gottenhired into corporations that
used to be a faux pas.
Right, like, you started abusiness.
It failed, you know, we're justgoing to like, set you out to
pasture for the rest of yourlife, and now I'm meeting people
that are like runningengineering divisions and like
had a startup five years ago.
Right, so, like, I think theexperience is starting to be
more like normalized into ourculture and into our workplaces
(28:50):
and so you're not riskingeverything.
If you take the leap right.
There is a path to go, I think,in and out of corporate America
, your whole career, if you needto.
Right, and that's becoming, Ithink, a career journey that's
more common and people don'tmind right, and as long as you
keep those connections, andworking as a startup with an
enterprise is not that muchdifferent than working at a.
I mean there are differences,but same skills, right, I'm
(29:13):
still bringing the same skillsto a startup, a vendor that's
serving a global enterprise, asI would a leader in the
enterprise, right?
Portia Mount (29:21):
I will say, julie, though it's you know, having
just I was just recently in techand prior to that, industrial
manufacturing, and we wouldoften acquire companies that
were run by founders, and one ofthe I thought the interesting
observation that I found wasthat those found like it was
great for the company, theacquiring company, but the
(29:43):
founders invariably felt alittle stifled by going, you
know, especially if they hadbeen in corporate environments
before or had never experiencedit and felt like, oh my God,
like there's so many rules hereand everything moves so slow and
why?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (29:58):
you know why do.
Portia Mount (29:59):
I have to go through, like you know, three
months of procurement to get a,you know, a pack of pencils and
some post-its, and so I lovewhat.
I love what you say about,because I think it's absolutely
true.
Right, You're seeing morepermeability between the sort of
the walls of entrepreneurship,corporate and that culture.
(30:21):
Fit sometimes works, sometimesdoesn't, for the entrepreneur
especially.
And I'm curious if you'veobserved entrepreneurs feeling
like you know what.
This was great, I got a regularpaycheck for a while, but let
me go ahead and figure out howto get back outside into, you
know, because I suspect, likethe entrepreneurs that I know,
(30:44):
once they've been on their own,they have very little desire to
go and work.
It's maybe it's the concept ofworking for somebody else and
like putting in hard work forsomebody else versus for
themselves.
I just want to give aperspective on that.
Julie Goff (30:58):
Yeah, well, I think, I think in some ways, you know,
our society has sort ofglamorized entrepreneurship or
startups or like you know thehockey stick growth, and the
reality is like it's not foreverybody, and so I.
I think it's remarkable whenpeople try it and say this isn't
for me, I'm going to go backand bring my skill set to it.
You know, like that's.
That's a totally fine thing.
(31:18):
Yeah, let's normalize that.
Yes, yes, and these companiesare getting remarkable talent as
a result, right?
If you run your own business andkeep payroll going and keep
keep the business capitalizedand sell things like you are a
better employee, whatever teamyou're running, when you go back
(31:39):
to a corporation, right?
So, normalize it all day long,hire those people all day long,
yeah.
But I think, portia, to yourpoint, the people that truly
have the bug, right, it's justlike they're, they can never go
back, right?
Yeah, I just think those, thosepeople will.
They're going to, they're goingto be the people that start two
, three companies in theircareer right, and so I think
(31:59):
that that's going to be.
That's just going to be how theyhave to live their life.
I think what I appreciate aboutour like my founder and I both
spent, like my founder spenttime at Oracle, cisco, so he, he
has lived that life, he has runglobal teams, so it makes us so
much better when we're sittingin front of you know enterprise
executives, we know theirstruggles right, or at least we
can relate right.
(32:20):
We know what kind of whatthey're up against, we can speak
that language and then I lovethat we get to work with the
entrepreneurs at those companies, right, yeah.
As a startup we're bringing thesolutions that speak to the
things they're trying to solveand they get jazzed.
We get jazzed right, we get towork together.
So I think, like being anentrepreneur who's been in that
(32:42):
seat makes you far more prepared, I think, to bring good
solutions, to speak thatlanguage and to really resonate
with their struggles.
Portia Mount (32:51):
So, julie, this is we get to like our most
favorite.
This is the most popular partof the pod, or is the lightning
round, and are you ready?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (33:01):
I'm ready.
Portia Mount (33:04):
And so this is a.
This is a lot, tends to be alot of fun for our listeners and
so question.
So we talked about mindset theoutset of this conversation.
Is there a favorite motto orphrase that you have that
defines your mindset?
Julie Goff (33:22):
Yes, it was the motto that I shared earlier
about courage begets courage.
Portia Mount (33:28):
Yeah, I love that.
Julie Goff (33:29):
I love that.
That's been true, true for me.
And like we don't get to bigthings overnight, like we've got
to learn to trust ourselves,and I think, as women, we think
courage is, you know, big,massive, grand things, and I
think courage actually happensin the smaller moments, you know
.
Portia Mount (33:49):
So important, so important.
It's a good reminder.
We feel like we need to makequantum, but sometimes it's the
incremental that is equallypowerful.
I love that Totally.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (33:59):
Okay, next question You're accepting a
huge award.
What is your walk on song?
I love this song.
Julie Goff (34:06):
I'm a huge music fan , but mine would be the
beginning of Nine to Five byDolly Parton, or it's like you
know, and I don't know if youknow all this, but the
percussion that she does in thatsong are her fingernails on the
keyboard.
No, I had no idea.
Yes, that's how.
I I didn't know that she cameup with that, because if you
(34:28):
listen to the song, it soundslike someone, just kind of like.
Portia Mount (34:31):
I learned something new.
Julie Goff (34:32):
Oh, my God.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (34:32):
I just thought that was like a ball and
movement.
Portia Mount (34:34):
I gotta go back and listen to this now.
This is gonna be great.
This is gonna be great for, bythe way we're putting, we're
gonna have a Spotify playlist ofall these songs, so I'm just
super excited about this.
This is why.
Julie Goff (34:43):
I had no idea.
Portia Mount (34:44):
And.
Julie Goff (34:44):
I have a coffee mug that's called Cup of Ambition.
So Dolly really gets meenergized.
I, you know we loved her.
I have to say we love DollyParton.
Portia Mount (34:53):
We love us some Dolly Parton.
She is like a phenomenal person.
I don't know if you saw herrecently she did like a guest
thing with the Dallas Cowboycheerleaders and she had like a
whole little Dallas Cowboycheerleader.
We will have to link to that inthe show notes, because she had
on the full outfit it was.
It was pretty amazing, I loveme some Dolly, I love her.
Julie Goff (35:16):
She was doing the thing she was doing, it she
continues to.
Portia Mount (35:19):
I think she's like 77 years old, so she's a
goddess and I learned somethingnew about her, which is even a
double bonus, okay, julie.
So here's the next questionwhat book do you find yourself
gifting or recommendingrepeatedly?
We are big readers, the squadreads a lot, and so I'm super
curious about this what do youread, what?
What do you?
I came prepared with props.
Yes, I love that.
Julie Goff (35:40):
Oh, my God, I love this book, but I haven't.
Portia Mount (35:42):
I haven't read it yet.
Somebody recommended it to me,so I just bought it.
I love that and I haven't readit.
Okay, I'm going to read it overthe break.
Julie Goff (35:48):
Scouts honor, scouts honor.
Okay, I'm totally doing it.
So, for those who are listening, so for those who are listening
, this is called.
It's called designing your life.
It's a few years old, so it'sbeen around for a while and it
was written by the twoprofessors at Stanford that
really took kind of the theStanford D school design
thinking and kind of reallybrought that to their.
(36:11):
Oh, there you go.
Portia Mount (36:12):
Tiffany you've got .
Oh, I wish I could get up andgo and grab my copy so we could
all hold up our copies together.
Julie Goff (36:18):
I love that we all own this book.
That must be a lot of reasons Ilove it.
Portia Mount (36:21):
Oh, but only two.
But only two of us not me haveactually read the book.
So you know, I'm going to goread it, though I promise,
tiffany and Julie, I promise.
Sorry about that.
Julie Goff (36:29):
So thinking about this idea of mindset, like these
Stanford professors wereapplying design thinking to all
of these business problems andsocial problems, right, and then
they actually created a courseat Stanford called I think it's
designing your first year orsomething.
So it's like helping use designthinking for Stanford students
to chart their learning for thefour years that they're there.
And then they took it to thenext step, which is like using
(36:50):
design thinking to think aboutyour life plan, and so I love
how this sort of breaks downthinking about your future, your
next step, into kind of thatdesign thinking, experimentation
mindset.
So it's very actionable.
Every chapter you read you thencan do homework like a
journaling exercise or something.
And I think when we pick upcareer books or like
(37:12):
inspirational books, sometimesit's just sort of you're
supposed to glean the wisdomfrom somebody's story, right,
which isn't a bad thing.
But this is so actionable that,like when people, especially my
female friends, when they'restuck in a career situation, I
give them this book because it'sso actionable for you, you will
be unstuck by the time youfinish this book.
Portia Mount (37:30):
That is an endorsement.
Julie Goff (37:32):
What an endorsement I know they're not paying me, I
just.
I've given this book away a lotof times.
Portia Mount (37:38):
Well, they should, they should, Julie.
Julie Goff (37:41):
Yeah, just send me more so I can give them away.
But I think it's also somethingyou could do every couple of
years, right Cause our lives arenot static, so it just I feel
like it's and it's talking abouthow to build a life, not a
career.
I think, especially as women,we sort of get honed in on the
career and then everything elsekind of has to fit around it.
At least, I think that's how wesort of begin our careers and
(38:02):
then life happens.
But I think this is helping yousort of proactively think about
, like all elements of your lifeand kind of where you want to
be, and so I highly recommend it.
Excellent recommendation.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:12):
All right, Julie.
What is the best purchase under150 bucks you've ever made?
Julie Goff (38:19):
Ever?
This is a hard question, recent.
I'll answer it recently not tofeel like stereotypical, but my
Stanley has been amazing.
I drink so much water.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:30):
Mine's not on my desk, but I also have one
.
Julie Goff (38:34):
I resisted the trend for a long time and then when
the North Carolina summer hitwhere you're like I can have
cold water all the time I gottaget one.
Portia Mount (38:41):
Oh my God, it keeps your water cold for like
days.
It's unreal.
Tiffany told me about thisStanley cup and she was like,
yeah, it's like this cup thatinfluencers are talking about.
And I was like that soundstotally stupid.
And then I was like I wastotally being derisive.
I was totally derisive andjudgmental and then and Tiffany
(39:04):
would be like that Tiffany waslike that's par for the course
for Porsche.
And then I was getting somestuff.
I was at Academy Sports andthere was like a wall of Stanley
cups.
I was getting stuff from my sonand I was like, huh, well,
maybe God, it's like 40 bucks.
It seems kind of expensive, butall right, I'll get one.
Oh my God, I am totally sold.
Tiffany, I apologize to you infront of our squad in front of
(39:26):
our squad audience, that I waswrong and you were right, Julie.
Thank you, thank you.
That's okay, I owe the sameapology.
Yeah, hook us up, stanley.
Hook us up.
We love your cups.
Hook us up.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (39:39):
Yeah, Okay .
What is a secret?
Unpopular opinion that you hold.
Portia Mount (39:46):
Okay, I cannot wait for you to answer this.
Julie Goff (39:49):
I actually had a hard time with this question.
Portia Mount (39:51):
No, this is like the most fun question.
This is a safe space, julie?
Tell us, tell us, I know.
Julie Goff (39:59):
I think watching movies are a waste of time.
What'd you say?
I think watching movies are awaste of time Like I just can't.
I can't sit down, I know, oh, Ican't.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (40:10):
Any kind.
What about inside out?
What about inside out?
Portia Mount (40:13):
It's very emotional, Tiffany, you can't
just like start throwing outrandom movies Like, well, what
about this movie?
That is not the point of this.
Tiffany is going to go.
She's got a long list of moviesthat she wants you to like.
Confirm or disconfirm thatthey're going to be on.
Julie Goff (40:27):
Confirm that they're a waste of time, the reason I'm
a podcast audible fiend,because I can like do other
things while I'm listening, andthat's probably more of a
sickness Fair Than you know anattribute, but it is what it is.
I am who I am.
Portia Mount (40:40):
I love it and I love how you're resilient about
that.
You're like that's who.
That's just who I am, that'sjust who I am.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (40:47):
You can speed up audibles and pod to
more efficiently get throughthem too.
You can't really do that with amovie.
Portia Mount (40:53):
Just diversion.
I don't understand CauseTiffany mentioned this, julie,
that she will speak.
You're like not the only person, tiffany, that will speed up a
audio book so that they canlisten to it faster, and I don't
understand the logic of that atall.
You don't have to explain it,I'm just saying I'm just putting
it out there, not a lot, justlike 1.2.
Why?
(41:14):
Why?
I don't understand that, though.
Like what is the logic Tolisten faster it?
Julie Goff (41:21):
makes it shorter more.
I just need to be multitasking,so if I'm walking the dog and
listening to a podcast, I feellike I've got the double time
going.
Portia Mount (41:29):
You've got, so it's like a it's like your
productivity hack.
I will just tell you, julie,like I watch a lot of movies and
I find myself watching the samemovie over like several times,
because I am multitasking andnot paying attention to it, and
my husband will be like haven'tyou watched this movie Like
three times.
I'm like, yeah, but I was doinglike seven things and so, yeah,
(41:49):
there's something to that, yeah,okay, so I love that is an
amazing.
I love that one.
I'm going to really be curiousabout what the squad says says
about this unpopular opinion,but I love it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (42:02):
Okay, so you don't have to apologize.
Portia Mount (42:03):
Own fully own your belief that watching movies is
a waste of time.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (42:07):
Own it, embrace it, embrace it, embrace
it.
Portia Mount (42:11):
Okay, so last question for you is what is a
hobby that you have that wouldsurprise people who know you.
Julie Goff (42:20):
This is also a little bit of a hard one, but
I'm going to share the one thatcame to mind.
So every summer, I host aseries of backyard garden
dinners at my house and hook usup next summer, come on, come on
.
But I also feel like just tokind of put a bow on our whole
conversation.
Like I started it in 2015because I needed, like, a
(42:42):
creative outlet, I invited 10people over, I cooked a meal
with local produce and I waslike maybe I'll do this again,
maybe I won't.
Everybody loved it and theywanted me to do it again and it
turned into a summer series.
So I was doing three a year.
I got a friend to come help me.
Now we are up to four a year,30 people per meal, per meal.
(43:05):
I have a team of four thathelps me.
Portia Mount (43:08):
So this is amazing .
This is totally amazing.
Julie Goff (43:11):
I started small.
I borrowed some tables, I gotsome bargain bin napkins at
World Market, just threw ittogether, didn't spend a lot of
money, and just like sort ofiterated my way to something
that now is a tradition that welove.
Yeah, stealing this idea.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (43:27):
Okay, can I just say I've been following
these harvest dinners on socialAt least.
I know when you started andwhen I moved to my most recent
home I told a friend I reallywant to get a huge outdoor table
so I can have harvest dinnersin my backyard like someone I
know.
And it was you, Like you'veinspired me to do this.
Portia Mount (43:46):
This is amazing.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (43:48):
I think the idea of coming together at a
table is top tier and I lovethat you've stuck with it and
it's building community.
Portia Mount (43:56):
Yeah, 100%.
I love that too.
Julie Goff (43:59):
It's allowing me the opportunity to be creative, but
, at the end of the day, all myother skill sets project
management, all those thingshelp as well.
But yeah, I think that was likesomething I'm really proud of,
obviously, and something that'spulled a lot of different.
I also think courage begetscourage, but also creativity
begets creativity.
Right, if you put your creativething out there 100%.
(44:20):
It's just going to attractother people's creative things
and I don't think everythingwell.
So I want the person who makesbread to bring their bread.
I want the person who lovesmusic to create a playlist Right
.
Portia Mount (44:30):
I love this so much and cannot wait for my
invitation to your one of yourharvest dinners.
Julie Goff (44:36):
All right, when you do this, I'm already inviting
myself over Tiffany I love itBecause I want to steal this
idea, but I need to experienceone first.
Portia Mount (44:46):
I love it.
No, in all seriousness, I lovethis concept.
How cool, how cool 2024.
Julie Goff (44:50):
Summer 2024.
Portia Mount (44:51):
2024.
Let's go, let's lock it in.
Julie Goff, it has been such awonderful pleasure to have you
here on the pod.
Thank you so much.
We hope that we'll you'll comeback and just thank you for all
the wonderful insights onintrapreneurship.
I hope that our squad you knowone, I think just some of your
wisdom around courage, aroundtaking small steps, around the
(45:16):
opportunities that it createsfor career expansion, for
learning, for growth and also,you know, sharing your a bit of
your own journey.
It's just been lovely to haveyou here today.
We appreciate you so much.
Julie Goff (45:27):
Oh, thank you and thank you all so much.
I love what you're doing, thankyou.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (45:31):
Thanks, julie.
Portia Mount (46:01):
And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at the
manifesta and tip talk at themanifesta pod See you next time.
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