January 31, 2024 • 46 mins
Ever feel like you're wearing a mask of perfection, trying to outpace the haunting whispers of imposter syndrome while juggling ambition with the raw truth of who you are? L'Oreal Thompson Payton joins us to unravel these threads, sharing her journey from being a high-flying journalist to finding her authentic writing voice. Our conversation delves into the lived experiences of high-achieving women, as we navigate the pressures of ambition, the need for representation of Black women in media, and the challenging dance with imposter syndrome that accompanies a life in the public eye.
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Stop Waiting For Perfect
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Portia Mount (00:03):
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a
career and lifestyle podcastfor aspiring women.
I'm Portia Mount.
Join me and my co-host, TiffanyWaddell-Tate, this season on
our mission to help women findtheir purpose, lead high-impact
careers, and live fulfillingpersonal lives by sharing the
stories of women who've carvedtheir own path to success.
(00:23):
The future is female.
Let's get started.
Hello squad, we are going to betalking about the myth of the
imposter syndrome and releasingperfectionism to embrace real
confidence.
So we've been talking about thecurse of ambition and how it
impacts women and knew that ouramazing guests would be the best
(00:47):
person to sit down and talkworkplace tea with us.
So today I'm so excited thatwe're welcoming L'Oreal Thompson
Payton.
She's an award-winningjournalist, storyteller and
speaker, and she is the authorof the newly published Stop
Waiting for Perfect.
Step Out of your Comfort Zoneand Into your Power.
Squad.
We will link to the book in theshow notes so you can buy your
(01:09):
copy.
We will also share with youL'Oreal's Instagram handles, as
well as her website,wwwltinthecitycom.
L'oreal.
Welcome.
So great to have you here.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (01:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
Absolutely so L'Oreal, let'sjust jump in.
We have been Twitter friendsnow ex, but Twitter friends
since before the pandemic and Ijust have so appreciated
following you in the onlinespace because you contribute and
offer so much thoughtleadership around what it needs
(01:45):
to be a freelancer gonecorporate gone freelancer,
author and now mom and I thinkall of us wear a ton of hats all
the time but when I think aboutyou and your brand voice, you
have always struck me as deeplyauthentic and not afraid to be
vulnerable in a very public way,and I thought, talking to you
(02:10):
about this curse of ambition andwhat it needs to do good work,
and do good work that's highlyvisible, and what it looks like
behind the scenes in terms ofyour confidence and where
sometimes aligns and sometimesdoesn't, you came to mind when
we were talking about this topic, and so I guess my first
question is what do you thinkabout the concept of a curse of
(02:32):
ambition?
How does that resonate with you?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (02:35):
It resonates deeply.
That is something that I feellike I have fallen victim to my
entire life.
I was the gifted and talentedstudent.
I skipped a grade, I wasvaledictorian of my eighth grade
, class, honor roll, dean's List, so forth and so on.
Like this list of accolades andaccomplishments that I then
(02:55):
turned to like identify a lot ofmy identity.
You know, identified as thisstar student, straight A's and
over achiever, highly ambitious.
I set my mind to a goal and Iaccomplished it.
I was always winning.
And then you enter the realworld.
Well, in journalism, you stillget, you still win, there's
(03:16):
still awards and there's stillthese things to strive for,
especially if you're not tryingto climb the masshead and go
from like lowly reporter toeditor in chief.
And that was the goal for mefor a long time, my entire
career.
Why I even got into journalismin the first place?
When I was reading teenmagazines back when I was in
middle school.
And you know this was theBritney and Christina era.
(03:37):
No, not to date myself, but youknow I'm a 90s, 2000s kid all
the way and I didn't see myselfrepresented in those pages right
Like it was before.
Beyonce was Beyonce.
She was still in Destiny'sChild.
It's before Michelle wasfloated, it's before Black Girl
Magic was trending, before BlackLives Matter was a movement,
(03:57):
and so there wasn't thisrepresentation that we have
today.
And I recognized at an earlierage.
Like you know, I love writing,that is my gift, that is my
superpower, that's how I knowbest to change the world.
So let me use that for good andbecome editor in chief right of
a teen magazine, because Ibelieve that that time, that
that was the only way or thebest way to do that.
(04:19):
And as I've gotten older andwiser, probably a lot more jaded
in the journalism industryespecially, I realized, you know
, there's other ways to achievethat goal of you know, making
representation, of helping Blackwomen and girls in particular
feel seen and heard and loved,then sacrificing myself and my
(04:42):
mental health for a title, forthe salary, for, you know, the
paycheck that we presume comesalong with that, Because,
honestly, like, the closer I gotto the top of that mess has,
the more I realized, like yo,the editor in chief is, in a lot
of meetings, boring.
That's just not what I wantedto do.
I want to write and that's allI've ever wanted to do since I
(05:05):
was a little girl, and I'm veryfortunate that that's what I get
to do now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (05:10):
That's good.
That's good.
And also, please don't inviteme to the meeting.
When you get an email me, youknow that part.
Portia Mount (05:17):
Don't invite us, I don't want to be invited and I
won't go.
I was like, no, I do, I notwant to be invited.
Like, if you do invite me, Iwon't go.
But by the way, lori, I willjust say, having to interviewed
lots of very successful women,they all say the same thing.
They get to that top spot andthey realize there's no there.
There they're like, oh my god.
I got there and I was like whatin the world?
This is not what I wanted atall.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (05:38):
So yeah this ain't it.
Portia Mount (05:41):
This ain't it so?
Just meetings on meetings andproblems on problems.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (05:46):
Right.
So about early childhood, earlyarc of your career, it just hit
in the athlete setting the ballhitting it.
That resonates with me for sure.
It also sounds really tiring,right Like to do all of this
incredible work and hit thegoals that you set for yourself,
even if those goals change.
(06:06):
But you know, I read thisarticle that you wrote gosh, I
don't remember what year now,but you were talking about just
happening, your dope-ness, andit was a different take on this
idea of imposter syndrome.
So the first question is isimposter syndrome even real?
And if it is, what exactly isit?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (06:27):
Yeah, this is controversial, right
Like, I feel when I firstdiscovered imposter syndrome so
this is back in 2016, 2017, asfar as like heard the name I'd
always felt the feeling, but Ididn't have the words and the
language for it.
And what I learned, you know, inthat research from Susan Ims
and Pauline Clance they studieda lot of middle class white
(06:48):
women, college educated, sothere's definitely some bias in
the research.
Most research, you know,there's nothing new there, but
it talked about these highachieving women who still, you
know, felt as though theyweren't worthy, as if, you know,
there was self-doubt aroundtheir accomplishments.
They had the resume right, theyhad the receipts, but they
still had the self-doubt.
(07:09):
And that really resonated withme because, again, I had those
accolades and the achievementsand so forth, and I still felt a
lot of that self-doubt.
I still felt like an imposterin a lot of different spaces,
especially when I changedcareers, you know, from
journalism to nonprofits, andthat was a whole identity shift
in crisis in and of itself.
And what I realized in somemore recent years is that two
(07:33):
things can be true, right Like,imposter syndrome does exist, I
do believe.
You know, you cannot reduce orminimize someone's feelings, and
so if they feel as though theyhave it, then they have it right
.
And racism, misogyny, sexism,ableism and all these other isms
also exist and can perpetuatethe imposter syndrome.
(07:54):
And so I've heard and have hadthis debate with some other
black women and it's like, yeah,that's great, I'm so happy for
those of us who don't have it.
That is amazing, and there'sstill some of us who do, and
that's okay as well, like twothings can exist.
And so I feel as though that'sbeen certainly the case in my
life and career where I havefelt this imposter syndrome and
(08:16):
it has been heightened by beingthe only black woman in the room
, oftentimes Like that certainlydoesn't help the case.
I think imposter syndrome getseven worse when you find that
you're the only one who lookslike you or identifies like you
do, and any situation or spacethat you're in, and so I do
think that it is true and Ithink that there are systemic
(08:38):
barriers and places andoppression, et cetera, that help
to intensify it and make iteven worse.
Portia Mount (08:46):
Yeah, yeah, lori on, I think I'm guessing you've
read the same article that wehave.
There's an HBR article thatcame out next You're not too
long ago, a couple of years,that basically said stop telling
women they have the impostersyndrome.
And they made the point exactlythat you're pointing out that
oftentimes it's the system, it'sthe organizational system that,
(09:06):
for lack of a, you know,elegant way to say it, is not
inclusive.
Right, when we don't feelincluded, then we don't feel
welcome, then we don't feel likewe are and therefore we don't
feel like we belong in thatspace, which exacerbates that
feeling of like, oh my god, like, can I even do this job?
Like, can I, am I even cut outfor it, when we all know, as
black women, we tend to beOverqualified for everything we
(09:30):
have to have so much, so manymore qualifications just to get
in the door.
So I appreciate that you'veadded that nuance, because
that's I think that was aforgotten piece.
I think, as we, you know, tryto go to figure out like, why is
this happening to us?
I'd love for you to talk abouthow do you embrace your inner
dupeness, because I love theflipping of the table on that.
What does that mean?
(09:51):
How do you do it?
Give us this, give us the cheatcode.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (09:57):
For me it honestly came down to Making
friends with your impostersyndrome and the book and stop
waiting for perfect and, likefun fact, trust your dope.
This was the original title ofthe book.
Portia Mount (10:07):
Based on that article, yeah, your editor was
like no, we can't do.
That was it.
Was it too urban?
Was the thought was the titleto what had happened.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (10:22):
What had happened was none of us did
our research, we didn't know.
A global conglomerate, majorglobal conglomerate owns the
copyright.
Mmm, I don't have major globalconglomerate lawsuit money.
Portia Mount (10:36):
Nobody does, nobody does darn it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (10:40):
No, buddy we had the rollerback and
come up with you had to take astep back.
Okay, okay, we have to take astep back.
Come up the plan B, theoriginal version.
Trust your dope.
This was inspired by my friend,melissa Kimball, who's the
founder of hashtag blackcreatives amazing, phenomenal
person, and she had given methis pep talk before a Twitter
(11:00):
chat.
Our IP, you know Twitter.
I refuse to call it by its newname.
Portia Mount (11:04):
We, we are, we are aligned.
We do not use, we do not callit to the other name, we don't
we don't, we will not speak.
We won't speak of it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (11:12):
Think of that name.
Portia Mount (11:13):
Yeah, and don't, and do not know when.
Dms, don't add us on this.
That it's yeah, not a debate.
We call it Twitter.
It's Twitter, it's Twitter.
Okay, it's Twitter.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (11:23):
It's always gonna be.
It's always gonna be Twitterforever forever Twitter forever
forever.
So there was this Twitter chatshe invited me to be on.
It was a panel about Blackwomen and I think it was around
a study that had to do with thelike really high suspension
rates of black girls in Americain the school system, etc.
So, yes, something you knowvery passionate about, and the
(11:47):
other panelists was the head ofa nonprofit for black girls and
very beforehand I was likeMelissa, I don't think I'm
qualified, like I am not.
You know, I haven't done theresearch.
I'm not leading a nonprofit.
I volunteered for the nonprofitbut I wasn't, you know, at the
head of the table and she gaveme this really inspiring and pep
talk that I still have thescreenshot of to this day and
(12:09):
still refer to and this is likesix, eight years ago and
Essentially was telling me totrust my darkness, trust your
voice.
You have a lot of gifts andvalue that you bring to the
table, even if it doesn't lookthe same as the researcher or
the Executive director of thenonprofit like you, still your
voice matters, your storymatters, you still have
(12:31):
something that is worthy toshare and, as I have gone on
since then, I started to look atImposter syndrome as kind of a
good thing, for me at least,because it means that I'm
leveling up Somehow in my career, in my personal life.
I'm stepping outside of thatcomfort zone, right, because
(12:52):
that's when imposter syndromeshows up for me the most.
Portia Mount (12:54):
Yes, when I'm trying something new.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (12:56):
I'm doing something different,
something I've never done before, something that is Requiring a
lot out of me, and something new.
And so it's kind of like, okay,this is new, this is scary, and
this is different and I amcapable, I am smart.
You know, I have done hardthings before and this is just,
you know, a Reminder that, okay,we've outgrown that comfort
(13:20):
zone and I think that that is asign.
Looking at imposter syndrome as, like this, sign of growth and
the.
We all know that the magichappens Outside of that comfort
zone.
So imposter syndrome is, for me, I'm kind of like reframing the
narrative and like, okay, thisis good because it means that
we're leveling up and that isnecessary for Success, for
(13:43):
growth, to, you know, like, doall the ambitious things that I
have in mind.
It is going to be uncomfortableand make me, you know, doubt
myself, but I have to pushthrough in order to get to the
other side.
Portia Mount (13:55):
Oh, I love that, I love that reefer, I love that
reframe and I love the, theframework of Imposter syndrome
as a signifier that you're goingoutside of your comfort zone
and therefore it's a good.
It's a good thing.
Wow, I think that's gonnaresonate with so many members of
the squad L'Oreal.
I want to zero in on this kindof issue of perfection.
(14:17):
You know a perfectionism andyou, you know we start at the
top of this conversation.
We'll be talking about beingthe, a student, right and like.
I think that's super relatableto.
I like to call myself arecovering Overachiever and I
know a lot of women who you knowthey're self-professed
recovering Perfectionists andbut you know, if you work to
corporate America especially,you quickly learn that being
(14:39):
perfect rarely if ever.
Okay, I'm just gonna go saynever gets you promoted and
never gets you like the bestassignments, it never gets you
the best of anything.
It just doesn't work.
So I'm just curious, you know,why are so many of us struggling
with perfectionism?
What is going on?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (14:59):
And it's really funny that you
mentioned the promotion inparticular, because that is
without giving too much away,but in recently leaving, you
know, the newsroom and goingback to full-time Freelance
writing, as Tiffany mentionedearlier, because I had that aha
moment.
Finally, like I got theperformance review was going
(15:20):
after the promotion Was promised.
The promotion hit all themetrics, exceeded the goals and
the KPIs and the page views andStill only got met expectations.
The math wasn't math in likeright.
I'm like how does one exceedthe goals and still only?
(15:40):
And that's when I realize it'snever going to be enough.
No, never going to be enough.
They are constantly going toraise the bar and move the
goalpost and I Can work my assoff and it's not going to be
enough.
And then, in the course ofbecause again, recovery and
(16:01):
perfectionist, overachiever,highly ambitious, like my
default setting is do the most.
Yes, I don't know any other wayof being guilty as charged as
charged.
Then guilty.
Portia Mount (16:14):
As you need a support club.
We do, we do.
We're gonna start a wholecommunity of do the most, but
even when you're asked doesn'tneed to be doing the most.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (16:23):
That's what that's.
Portia Mount (16:24):
That's what that's what we're gonna call this
canoe tag line.
Go sit down, go just go laydown somewhere, don't do them up
, stop Okay.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (16:33):
Have all the seats.
I have all the seats yes, I'veseats, yes, and my therapist
over the summer was like I'mstarting to see, I'm starting to
notice some depressive symptoms, mmm, and the journalist in me,
of course, was like what do youmean by that?
And so some of the symptomswere fatigue, irritability
(16:54):
there's a fancy word for thisthat I don't remember and it
begins with an A but it was likenot finding pleasure in the
things that you used to enjoy.
But it was like check, check,check.
And the thing for me, thebreaking point, was Not having
the energy to play with mydaughter when she got home from
daycare.
Mmm, because, listen, we andthose who are familiar with my
(17:15):
journey know, but those whoaren't like, we went through a
lot to have her multiple roundsof IVF and Fail cycles and
trends, all of these things.
So a lot of time, energy andmoney Just call it like it is
Went into having this kid, andnow I don't have the energy to
(17:36):
play with you and you get homeafter you've been at daycare all
day and there is, you know,like feelings around that as
well, because you know, you, mom, guilt is a israel.
It's real and I was absolutelythis is not worth it and that's
not the example that I want toset for her right.
Because we've all heard it.
We saw the scandal episode.
The you know work twice as hardto get half as much has been
(17:59):
like the black girl mantra.
Daddy, papa Pope forever right.
He laid it in he spoke thetruth.
Portia Mount (18:05):
I did it just like it broke us all down.
I remember how we were all onTwitter talking about it the
next day like, oh my god acollective drag.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (18:15):
All of us, all of us, and it's like why
I'm in it I didn't sleep withthe president, like, why do you
have to come for me?
right, exactly, it's justattacking, attacking us.
Yeah, so rude and so truthfuland so honest.
And that is the mentality thatI was raised with, that my mom
was raised with how she, youknow, distilled that into me and
(18:35):
my sister and it was a survivalmechanism for black people,
black women.
And I want better, I wantdifferent for my daughter.
I don't want her to have toPlay into that lie and that myth
, because that's the thing likeyou can work twice as hard,
three times as hard, four timesas hard, and it's not going to
get you the promotion, is notgoing to guarantee success, it
(18:57):
won't get you the six-figuresalary.
Like, so let's do it by our ownrules.
Like let's make our own way,let's live a softer life where
we're not as stressed, becausethat has a toll on our physical
health, our mental health, as Ilearned, you know, the hard way
over the summer.
And so I want to model for hera different way and that's my
(19:17):
Accountability, that's my legacy, like and so I want, I don't
want to pass on the overwork andthe trauma and the depression
and the anxiety and all of thatonto her.
So I have to choose and live adifferent way for her to see
what's possible.
Portia Mount (19:33):
I I love that so much.
Lori at L'Oreal.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (19:37):
How do you step into that space where 80%
or less is good enough for youIf you've been tearing
perfection on the inside?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (19:47):
yeah, that's been a work in progress
and I have a mentor, kyra Kyle's, and I love dearly, and she was
one of the first people to tellme that she's like listen, your
60%, 80% is someone else's, 100, 120%, like that's just how I'm
wired.
Yeah, so I don't have to, Idon't have to do the most, and
(20:10):
Getting out of my own way.
And writing the book was alesson in humility first and
foremost, and also I'm learningperfection, because it's like,
okay, these things don't gotogether.
Parenting and perfection don'tmix, like that was a really
early wake-up call.
They do not like it just don'tgo together, never have and
(20:31):
never will.
And so what am I even trying todo there?
And then in writing the book, itwas like coming up on the
deadline for that first draftand I was just like this ain't
ready, this isn't perfect, right, because again, that pressure,
I'm a black woman in publishing,so I have to make sure that I'm
showing up and I'm perfect sothat other black women get
opportunities.
(20:51):
And you know the whole first,only different thing that Shonda
Rhimes talks about and not thatI'm the first, only different
you know one to get a publishingcontract, but like there aren't
a lot of us, and so thepublishers, the bookstores and
everybody use those numbers andhow our books sell yeah, in
order to determine, you know,future contracts for myself,
(21:12):
other writers etc.
So a lot of that pressure I puton myself and it was like, no,
this isn't, this, isn't it?
Like the first draft is notmeant to be perfect, like Anne
Lamont writes about the shittyfirst draft.
That's real, that's just, it iswhat it is like.
Get it down on the paper andstop trying to do my job and my
editor's job, like her job, isto help me make it sound good
(21:34):
and read better.
So let me let her do her joband let me focus on doing my job
.
And the thing that really drovethat home for me One of the few
times I was sitting in a coffeeshop working on the book A lot
of it was written in the notesapp in the nursery at two, four
o'clock in the morning when Iwas breastfeeding my daughter
when she was a newborn Was justlike.
I saw this tweet that said youcan edit bad, but you can't edit
(21:56):
nothing so well.
I've got a point on the paperand we can make it better.
We can make it better, but Ihave to get it out there and
just realizing and accepting andbelieving that Done is better
than perfect, mmm, because youcan always, always go back, I
mean, well, now the book ispublished, so you know so you
(22:17):
can't go back.
I wish I could change, but Ican't go back to that.
But you know, maybe if it getsa second edition or something
like that, but the thingclaiming that out there and it's
reaching people.
Yeah, thank you, it's reachingthe people it needs to reach and
that's because I got of my outof my own way and didn't let you
know Perfect be the enemy ofgood, and that is really really
(22:41):
crucial.
To do anything artistic orcreative, but like to create
anything at all.
Period done is better thanperfect.
Portia Mount (22:49):
I Remember Following you and I were not
Twitter friends like you andTiffany, but now we now we're
gonna be Twitter friends.
Yes, I remember following yourstory of trying to have have
your daughter and as someone whowent through a lot of fertility
issues as well, and like, andthen I remember feeling so
Trampled for you when youfinally had her, because you
(23:12):
brought people along and yourvulnerability and sharing your
story and, I think, sharing thelike, even sharing the issues
around depression, and Part ofwhat I love is that you're doing
and so you know, you and otheramazing black women are telling
this other side of our story,which is the story of we do not
(23:33):
have to carry the whole world onour shoulders, we don't have to
pretend like we have it alltogether.
And my question for you is youknow, in thinking about this
book, that you've burned.
This is your other baby and youput into the world.
Are there a couple of justreally Key things you want
(23:54):
Readers to take away?
Like there's a lot in this book.
I was skimming it, I just gotit, so I was skimming it, but
I'm going to read it over theholidays.
But are there a couple thingswere like, if you take away
nothing else, what is it youwant your readers to?
To feel, see, think, do as aresult of reading your book?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (24:13):
to take comfort in the fact that you
are enough as you are right nowshowing up.
You know, imperfectly, perfect,right.
There is a lot of pressure thatwe put on ourselves as women,
especially women of color, blackwomen more than any other.
I feel like to have it alltogether and you don't.
(24:36):
You don't need to have it alltogether.
That is not any kind of markerindication of how worthy you are
or the type of person that youare and what you need and
deserve from the world.
And asking for help honestly.
That was one of the chaptersthat I talk about in that it
takes a village we talk all thetime.
It takes a village to raise akid and I'm finding every single
(24:59):
day.
It takes a village also toraise a mom, to raise the
parents and I was so raised tobe independent.
Be the strong black woman.
Have it together.
I'm the one who helps everyoneelse.
Right?
I don't need help because that'sa sign of weakness, that's a
sign of vulnerability, and Ireached a breaking point last
year, about a year or so afterher daughter was born, where it
(25:21):
was just like it had shit hit itthe fan.
It was just like I can nolonger pretend.
I can no longer do this on myown.
I need help.
I need to not only ask for helpbut get comfortable receiving
the help, and that part, I think, will be a little bit trickier,
more than ever to let people in, to be vulnerable and to admit
(25:42):
that I can't do this on my own.
And that's okay.
Social media is a lie.
Everything else, there's a lotout there, there's a lot of
noise.
So the biggest takeaways youare enough, you do not have to
be perfect, you can show up asyou are and it is okay to ask
and receive help when you get it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:02):
Drag me.
You really just dragged me alittle bit.
What's up?
It's okay to receive that help.
Portia Mount (26:08):
Receive it, tiffany, receive it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:14):
I'm like on my neck because I think
something that we do as women,as Black women especially, is we
will affirm other women on thestreet.
You know like you look amazing.
You killed that presentation.
I love the way that you pulledthis together.
Can you teach me how to do X, yand Z, because you know I'm not
(26:36):
great at this?
We have an entire cultureonline where I can find a
different influencer or thoughtleader for whatever it is.
I'm trying to learn that lookslike me now.
Thank you to the internet.
Portia Mount (26:47):
Yes, thank you, beyonce's internet.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (26:51):
I was literally thinking that.
Portia Mount (26:54):
Yes, thank you to Beyonce.
Thank you to Beyonce andBeyonce's internet.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:58):
Yes, and as I like to say, my birthday
twin.
Thank you to Beyonce.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (27:04):
Now you're just showing off.
Portia Mount (27:06):
I mean just I was wondering when she was going to
slip in that she and Beyonceshare a birthday Because let me
just tell you L'Oreal I am tiredof the information.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (27:18):
It comes up often, Often often how
does it feel to be God'sfavorite it?
Portia Mount (27:22):
does I know right, right, exactly exactly.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (27:27):
It's so easy for us to tell other people
how bomb they are.
You're enough, you're killingit, keep going.
And yet it is so difficult toturn that energy inward.
And it's like I don't know.
I don't know that I've gottenit right, but I really
appreciate you saying that andjust reminding us that we're
good, it's OK and like you're60%, you're 50% is 10, the next
(27:52):
person Right.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (27:54):
Like it is.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (27:55):
We're good Facts.
Portia Mount (27:57):
I needed to hear that today.
We need to hear it every singleday, tiffany, and you know,
loria, tiffany and I were havinga chat earlier and we were just
talking about how, as blackwomen and you referenced this we
get used to fixing everything.
We will fix the broken things.
We are being asked to fixdemocracy right now and I love
(28:17):
that.
Women, black women- again, againagain again Because we did
trigger, because, yeah, I know Iknow, it's like I just unlocked
a core memory, I know, but theonly way that we stop doing that
is we stop doing that.
We say we are not doing thatRight, and so I and it's all in
my mind.
This is all intertwined withwhat you're saying around this
perfection and feeling, you know, feeling like we have the
(28:38):
obligation to do that.
No, we don't.
We can just go and lay ourasses down.
We could just go lay down.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (28:43):
Listen, just go lay down.
And there's about this timelast year, right after
Thanksgiving, we were in Hawaiiwith my family and hiking
diamond head, which I've hikedbefore.
No big deal Did it before.
I could do it again.
A lot different with the20-some-pound toddler strap in
my back right.
We're going up.
(29:04):
You're like hey, this baby is soheavy, this baby is so heavy,
Listen, and we're at the next,like at the next to last, Like I
can see the top.
I can see the top of thevolcano and old L'Oreal would
have pushed through becausethat's my default mode.
Portia Mount (29:19):
It's like push through, push through, push
through.
Suffer yes.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (29:22):
Because you set a goal, you have to
reach it.
No matter what we have to do,the goal we have to.
We have to cross it off thelist.
And what I'm starting to paymore attention to is my body,
like when my brain is sayingpush through.
That's actually my body beinglike press pause.
And I turned my butt around,found my family, gave the baby
(29:44):
to my sister, took a breath,drank a lot of water, and then I
turned to her.
And because I remember in thatmoment my therapist telling me
like when you find yourself inthese challenging situations, I
want you to think what would youwant Violet to do?
And then do that.
So I turned to her.
Mind you, she had just turnedone.
She's looking at me but notreally comprehending.
(30:07):
But I'm like mommy's tiredright now and it's important
that we listen to our body andhonor our boundaries and rest
when we need to.
And she's just like okay, butwhere are my snacks?
Like looking at me, but notreally.
But it was important for me totell her why and to model that
(30:28):
self-care and that rest and thatsoftness and that that is
strength too, 100%, 100%.
Portia Mount (30:35):
And I love that.
You've used the word softness acouple of times here and I love
you know, I love the whole softgirl, soft woman, ease.
I love that that language isbecoming normalized for us as
black women.
I think we need to talk, Ithink we need and we need,
especially people who are inyour role to normalize that
(30:58):
broadly, because that is notpart of our vernacular.
We are about grindhouse.
You know we have been aboutgrindhouse.
Get it done, do everything foreveryone and not ourselves.
So I absolutely want to likeunderscore how important it is
that you're talking about that.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (31:17):
Because we deserve rest too.
We deserve the soft life and,yes, life a luxury.
But when I think of thesoftness, I'm thinking of Trisha
Hersey and the Nat Ministry andRest as.
Resistance.
Rest being a revolution Likethat's the kind of softness.
Now, don't get me wrong, I wantthe luxury too, right because I
do.
Portia Mount (31:34):
I definitely want that because I'm kind of bougie
Royals.
So I will just say I want allof those things.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (31:41):
All of it.
Yes, she's very bougie.
She's very bougie actually.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (31:45):
Not Tiffany coming in with us.
Portia Mount (31:47):
I know like I was gonna say like Tiffany, you
might want to sit this one out,so funny.
Yes.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (31:55):
What.
Portia Mount (31:58):
Anyway, anyway, let's re-diagress.
We digress, moving on, movingon.
We digress.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (32:04):
Well, L'Oreal, you've kind of
mentioned, you know, thisconcept of honoring your body,
listening to your body, settinga boundary, asking for help,
receiving help, remindingyourself that you're good enough
.
Are there any other practicaltips you would encourage for
someone who's trying to trusttheir dope-ness, combat
perfectionism and allowthemselves to be fully human,
(32:28):
instead of these likehigh-achieving robots, Like what
would you encourage people todo?
Just daily small things thatyou do?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (32:36):
One of the exercises that I include in
the book and there's a templateas well is writing this breakup
letter to your inner critic,because we all have one, unless
you're, you know, cisgender,heterosexual, white man.
I'm just saying Bike drop, bikedrop Elon Musk.
I mean what.
We all have an inner critic.
(32:57):
I don't think EM does.
No, he absolutely.
Well, that was, you've seen thetweet.
That's like some people needimposter syndrome, Just saying,
I'm just saying, Just saying.
Portia Mount (33:12):
I'm just saying.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (33:14):
So, for you know, the rest of us who do
have this inner critic, thatnegative voice right that's
constantly telling you you'renot good enough, you don't
deserve to be here.
What are you doing?
Naming that critic, confrontingthem head-on.
Name my negative Nancy.
I like alliteration, but I'vedone this exercise in a couple
of different workshops and thenames that people come up with
are very creative.
(33:35):
There's, like there was anantagonistic Angela, pessimistic
Pedro, like I was.
Like oh, I have to, I mighthave to rethink my, my critic's
name, but anyway, writing aletter to your critic, and for
me it started with gratitudebecause I recognized that she
was trying to keep me safe.
She's like girl I want to doout here, embarrassing yourself,
(33:57):
embarrassing us, like we, Ilike the comfort zone, let's
stay in the comfort zone.
We know the comfort zone andI'm like thank you, I appreciate
what you are trying to do andnow it's time for you to.
You know, take a backseat.
I'm in the driver's wheel now,like I'm in control and I've got
this and doing that as manytimes as you need to Like.
(34:19):
You know, it sounds very likewoo-woo in theory, but in
practice, especially in a groupsetting, like if y'all had a
little book club and you decidedto do it together and then read
your letters aloud.
There is so much power inreclaiming that you know just
doing away with that voice,reclaiming your powers.
What I was trying to sayearlier and just kind of pushing
(34:40):
that negativity to the side andnot saying that it never comes
up again.
I think that's the other thingwith imposter syndrome, self
doubt and a lot of this innernegativity is that you know it
might dwindle down for a littlebit in society, like while your
new level becomes your newcomfort zone, but then when you
edge out of that and you levelup again it's gonna come
(35:00):
bubbling back up to the surfaceand so you'll need to do this
exercise again.
And I'm also a big fan ofaffirmations, guided meditations
.
Leila Delia has a really goodone on Insight Timer about
reclaiming your power.
That I listened to on theregular and it's just really
powerful, very groundingexercise and just kind of
(35:23):
reminds you of the badass thatyou are.
I listened to it before doingthe interview for my first cover
story ever that I recentlywrote when I was switching
careers two times over.
As Tiffany mentioned, I've donea lot of back and forth, so
it's just really finding thosethings that help remind you of
your power and your strength indoing them on a regular basis.
(35:45):
It's like maintenance for yourconfidence.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (35:48):
Yeah, I don't know what I would call my
inner critic.
Portia Mount (35:51):
I'm gonna come up with that.
That's good.
I'm sure mine is like JudyMcJudgy.
That's my inner critic.
Judy McJudgy, I like that.
Yeah, judy McJudgy.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:00):
Judy McJudgy.
Portia Mount (36:01):
Judy McJudgy.
So L'Oreal.
This is one of our favoriteparts of our pod interviews.
The Squad loves these.
It's our lightning around.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:11):
I wish I had a little musical thing
going on.
Portia Mount (36:14):
But first question for you in Lightning Round is
what's your favorite motto orphrase that best defines your
mindset?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:24):
Yeah, maya Angelou has this quote as
she says that success is likingyourself, liking what you do and
liking how you do it.
And that's my guiding light andprinciple.
Portia Mount (36:34):
And like if I can check all these three boxes.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:36):
We're doing good, I love that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:39):
OK, you are accepting a huge award.
What is your walk-on song?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:44):
I really tried to distill this
down to just one, but it's athree-way tie with Run the World
Girls Formation and Diva, moreBeyonce.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:55):
Ok, all Beyonce, all Beyonce.
Portia Mount (36:56):
You are on it.
Did you know that Tiffany wasborn on Beyonce's birthday?
L'oreal Do you know they sharea birthday?
Did you know that Tiffany andBeyonce share a birthday?
Did you know that?
Anyway, I love Run the World,by the way.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (37:13):
I still walk that song on my playlist.
Portia Mount (37:14):
I love Run the World.
It's just like it hypes you up.
That is a great and Diva, ithelps you up.
These are all great walk-onsongs.
I love that.
I love it, love it Love it,Love it yeah we're going to be
making a podcast playlist.
We're going to make a playlist.
Yeah, we're making a Spotifyplaylist, which is going to be
super fun.
So what is one book besidesyour own, besides your own, that
(37:34):
you find yourself recommendingor gifting on the regular?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (37:39):
Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, and
I reread it every.
January, and it's fun becauseour covers look very similar
Like.
When I first saw the cover formine, it reminded me of hers,
but for any creative, any artist, it's just a really good
reminder of the power that youhave and why your creativity
matters and it's important tonurture it.
(38:00):
So that's my repeat read everyJanuary.
Portia Mount (38:04):
Right on, right on .
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:06):
OK, what's the best purchase under 150
bucks you've ever made?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:12):
Under $150.
I'm trying to remember if myApple Watch was under $150.
Portia Mount (38:17):
It was not.
I can't live without this thing.
Your Apple Watch is not lessthan $150.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:22):
But it's like three versions ago, so
I'm trying to think about it.
If you have an, Apple Watch oneL'Oreal.
Portia Mount (38:31):
Are you sure it was a real?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:32):
Apple and not a bootleg.
Portia Mount (38:34):
If it was not a bootleg.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:38):
Apple was from Costco, so I guess it
could be Everyone's like.
Portia Mount (38:43):
where can we get these $150 Apple Watches?
I'm sorry.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:49):
That sounds like I don't remember.
I don't.
I feel like there's some app.
No, I take this back.
Therapy Notebook by Simple Self.
I just bought it and have beenusing it in just four sessions
so far, and it has made mytherapy sessions even more
productive, because that's thekind of person I am, who likes
to be productive about therapy.
Portia Mount (39:10):
Are you a Virgo as well?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (39:12):
No, I'm a Scorpio, so OK, I'm a little
sultry, you're a little sultry.
Portia Mount (39:18):
She's like super cool.
I'm very organized andproductive.
I love it.
I love it.
Ok, so L'Oreal.
Now this is a safe space forthis next question.
What's a secret, unpopularopinion that you hold?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (39:36):
Oh, I'm trying to think if I have
anything super controversial.
I'm pretty Basic in that regardbecause I I love, like, pumpkin
spice.
Portia Mount (39:45):
That's not controversial, but in like I do
like pumpkin pie, because thatis no, absolutely Right here.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (39:56):
Wait, what's wrong with pumpkin pie?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (40:07):
There's nothing if you're, you know
okay.
Portia Mount (40:10):
So some of our squad may not know, because you
know our squad is very diverse,but squad Black people typically
do not eat pumpkin.
It is in like we just don't eatit.
So Except for Tiffany Tiffanyclearly is about to make a
confession here that she likespumpkin pie.
But this is just.
This is just a thing of like.
We don't eat pumpkin pie, it'ssweet potatoes, sweet potato pie
(40:33):
.
For us, sweet potato pie.
Yeah, so it would be and highlyunpopular opinion among black
people anyway, if you atePumpkin pie, I think Kevin on
stage Kevin had on stage had awhole thing on thanks during
Thanksgiving about eating, likeeating pumpkin pie secretly.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (40:49):
Yeah, oh I, but it's the thing I like
pumpkin lattes, the Pancakesmovies, everything but the pie.
Portia Mount (40:58):
Okay, that's extreme.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (40:59):
That's a lot of pumpkin.
Portia Mount (41:00):
But that's not unpopular, I don't think All
right.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:03):
Okay, last question what's a hobby you
have?
That would surprise most peoplewho know you.
I.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (41:10):
Had thought about this one.
I don't know that there'sanything surprising, but a
little known fact that otherpeople who don't know me
Wouldn't know is that I wasunanimously voted in
miscongeniality and a regionalpole fitness competition Back in
2013.
Portia Mount (41:26):
Did you say pole?
Pole fitness, as in like beingon the pole.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (41:32):
Mm-hmm, I like to look at that.
I'm a show by one day.
Be like your mom was a baddieback in the day.
Did you take like?
Portia Mount (41:43):
pole, like I'm, by the way, I have to say, when I
watched P Valley, which was anamazing series, a Directed the
credit, I don't know show runner, a black woman.
These women are athletes likeit is.
Unbelievable just how strongand flexible they are.
Did you take Classes and thingslike that?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (42:02):
Oh yeah , yeah, I was obsessed.
I was in the studio like everand, honestly, best workout I've
ever done.
Everyone who knows me now islike, aren't you about that
Peloton life?
Yes, and before then I was, Iwas a pole girly.
It's the instill, the bestworkout ever, and it's like more
than the physical part.
Yeah, it was like women ofevery background, body type,
(42:23):
like there was a60-some-year-old grandma one of
my classes Doing tricks andspins that I could never and so
it was just wow, a goodconfidence booster.
Like the energy was so good.
I highly recommend.
Portia Mount (42:39):
Always wanted to do a pole class because, let me
just tell you, I could justimagine myself like hanging on
for dear life and some littlestruggle heels trying to get up
that pole.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (42:50):
It's a lot of core, it's a bear, it's a
full body workout, but it'sthere's a lot of core involved
as well.
Portia Mount (42:55):
I had a C-section.
I do not have the core.
I'm sure I don't have the corefor for pole, but I.
Really.
But I'm super impressed by F1.
I'm like incredibly impressedthat you've done this and I'm,
like I said, these women, in myview, are athletes.
It, just it, just the agilityand flexibility they have.
So that's.
That is super cool.
Where did you do your poledancing classes?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (43:16):
exposed fitness.
When I was back in Baltimoreand when I moved to Chicago, I
was at Flirty girl, which issince closed down, which was
really sad, and that's kind ofwhat led me to Peloton.
Anyways, because my studioclosed and okay which it was
just really.
It was really sad moment.
I I miss those girls a lotbecause we had such a good thing
going so that's awesome.
Portia Mount (43:35):
I follow a few pole dancers on Instagram and
they are.
They're amazing and you'reright.
Like all the different bodytypes of women who Do, it is
pretty amazing.
Yeah, l'oreal, it has been sucha pleasure to have you on the
pod.
Thank you, we want ever.
We're gonna be linking to yourbook and to your website and you
(43:56):
have any any upcoming speakingevents for 2024?
You do you have like full slateof speaking events and where
can people like come in here youspeak, if you know, in the new
year?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (44:06):
Yeah, there's a couple of local ones
and then some differentorganizations that I'm gonna be
speaking, I, but I'm likeNorthwestern 11th Evanston and
so they're Delta chapter,actually inviting you to speak
or doing like a book club withit and, yeah, more to come.
So, as always, follow me onsocial media L team the city and
(44:26):
my weekly newsletter at L teamthe city, comm, and I drop all
of the, so the things there andI'm all gonna teaching yoga and
starting next year to finallymaking good on the training that
I did back at the height of thepandemic.
So I'm excited to Wait intothose waters as well.
Portia Mount (44:43):
That's awesome.
You, I love that you're somulti-faceted to you and, and
you know, just I think, thankyou for your vulnerability and
for cheering your journey and Ihope that the squad listening
really just internalizes thesemessages that you've shared,
because we just we have theability to Be more than
(45:05):
ourselves in a way that wedefine for ourselves.
I think is really powerful andyou, you, sharing your journey,
I think it's shown how like one,one path for doing that.
So just appreciate you so muchfor for that.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (45:16):
Thank you, thank you both for having
me.
This was so much fun.
I love the laughter and knownow that Tiffany and Beyonce
share a birthday.
Oh gosh.
Portia Mount (45:27):
Don't blow her head up anymore.
L'oreal because we are verytired of it.
No we let we love Tiffany andwe love and we definitely love
beyond, we definitely loveBeyonce.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (45:37):
So we are, we are definitely yeah, yes, we
don't want the high comingafter us.
Okay, we do not want the high.
Portia Mount (45:43):
I'm like dude, we don't want the high, we do not
want the smoke.
I'm just gonna say we don'twant the high smoke at all.
So, l'oreal Thompson Peyton,thank you so much for joining us
and we look forward to havingyou back for your next book as
well.
So thank you for being justlike being, such a wonderful ray
of light for us.
So we appreciate you.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (46:01):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for all the things.
Portia Mount (46:07):
Thanks for listening to the manifesta
podcast.
Our sound designer and audioengineer is Nina Pollock of Nina
Pollock sound.
Our Social media manager isdestiny Iker.
Have a question, comment ortopic for our next episode?
Email us at the manifesta atgmailcom.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
(46:27):
podcast, spotify or wherever youlisten to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
And don't forget to follow uson Instagram at the manifesta
and tiktok at the dot manifestapod.
See you next time.
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a
career and lifestyle podcastfor aspiring women.
I'm Portia Mount.
Join me and my co-host, TiffanyWaddell-Tate, this season on
our mission to help women findtheir purpose, lead high-impact
careers, and live fulfillingpersonal lives by sharing the
stories of women who've carvedtheir own path to success.
(00:23):
The future is female.
Let's get started.
Hello squad, we are going to betalking about the myth of the
imposter syndrome and releasingperfectionism to embrace real
confidence.
So we've been talking about thecurse of ambition and how it
impacts women and knew that ouramazing guests would be the best
(00:47):
person to sit down and talkworkplace tea with us.
So today I'm so excited thatwe're welcoming L'Oreal Thompson
Payton.
She's an award-winningjournalist, storyteller and
speaker, and she is the authorof the newly published Stop
Waiting for Perfect.
Step Out of your Comfort Zoneand Into your Power.
Squad.
We will link to the book in theshow notes so you can buy your
(01:09):
copy.
We will also share with youL'Oreal's Instagram handles, as
well as her website,wwwltinthecitycom.
L'oreal.
Welcome.
So great to have you here.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (01:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
Absolutely so L'Oreal, let'sjust jump in.
We have been Twitter friendsnow ex, but Twitter friends
since before the pandemic and Ijust have so appreciated
following you in the onlinespace because you contribute and
offer so much thoughtleadership around what it needs
(01:45):
to be a freelancer gonecorporate gone freelancer,
author and now mom and I thinkall of us wear a ton of hats all
the time but when I think aboutyou and your brand voice, you
have always struck me as deeplyauthentic and not afraid to be
vulnerable in a very public way,and I thought, talking to you
(02:10):
about this curse of ambition andwhat it needs to do good work,
and do good work that's highlyvisible, and what it looks like
behind the scenes in terms ofyour confidence and where
sometimes aligns and sometimesdoesn't, you came to mind when
we were talking about this topic, and so I guess my first
question is what do you thinkabout the concept of a curse of
(02:32):
ambition?
How does that resonate with you?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (02:35):
It resonates deeply.
That is something that I feellike I have fallen victim to my
entire life.
I was the gifted and talentedstudent.
I skipped a grade, I wasvaledictorian of my eighth grade
, class, honor roll, dean's List, so forth and so on.
Like this list of accolades andaccomplishments that I then
(02:55):
turned to like identify a lot ofmy identity.
You know, identified as thisstar student, straight A's and
over achiever, highly ambitious.
I set my mind to a goal and Iaccomplished it.
I was always winning.
And then you enter the realworld.
Well, in journalism, you stillget, you still win, there's
(03:16):
still awards and there's stillthese things to strive for,
especially if you're not tryingto climb the masshead and go
from like lowly reporter toeditor in chief.
And that was the goal for mefor a long time, my entire
career.
Why I even got into journalismin the first place?
When I was reading teenmagazines back when I was in
middle school.
And you know this was theBritney and Christina era.
(03:37):
No, not to date myself, but youknow I'm a 90s, 2000s kid all
the way and I didn't see myselfrepresented in those pages right
Like it was before.
Beyonce was Beyonce.
She was still in Destiny'sChild.
It's before Michelle wasfloated, it's before Black Girl
Magic was trending, before BlackLives Matter was a movement,
(03:57):
and so there wasn't thisrepresentation that we have
today.
And I recognized at an earlierage.
Like you know, I love writing,that is my gift, that is my
superpower, that's how I knowbest to change the world.
So let me use that for good andbecome editor in chief right of
a teen magazine, because Ibelieve that that time, that
that was the only way or thebest way to do that.
(04:19):
And as I've gotten older andwiser, probably a lot more jaded
in the journalism industryespecially, I realized, you know
, there's other ways to achievethat goal of you know, making
representation, of helping Blackwomen and girls in particular
feel seen and heard and loved,then sacrificing myself and my
(04:42):
mental health for a title, forthe salary, for, you know, the
paycheck that we presume comesalong with that, Because,
honestly, like, the closer I gotto the top of that mess has,
the more I realized, like yo,the editor in chief is, in a lot
of meetings, boring.
That's just not what I wantedto do.
I want to write and that's allI've ever wanted to do since I
(05:05):
was a little girl, and I'm veryfortunate that that's what I get
to do now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (05:10):
That's good.
That's good.
And also, please don't inviteme to the meeting.
When you get an email me, youknow that part.
Portia Mount (05:17):
Don't invite us, I don't want to be invited and I
won't go.
I was like, no, I do, I notwant to be invited.
Like, if you do invite me, Iwon't go.
But by the way, lori, I willjust say, having to interviewed
lots of very successful women,they all say the same thing.
They get to that top spot andthey realize there's no there.
There they're like, oh my god.
I got there and I was like whatin the world?
This is not what I wanted atall.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (05:38):
So yeah this ain't it.
Portia Mount (05:41):
This ain't it so?
Just meetings on meetings andproblems on problems.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (05:46):
Right.
So about early childhood, earlyarc of your career, it just hit
in the athlete setting the ballhitting it.
That resonates with me for sure.
It also sounds really tiring,right Like to do all of this
incredible work and hit thegoals that you set for yourself,
even if those goals change.
(06:06):
But you know, I read thisarticle that you wrote gosh, I
don't remember what year now,but you were talking about just
happening, your dope-ness, andit was a different take on this
idea of imposter syndrome.
So the first question is isimposter syndrome even real?
And if it is, what exactly isit?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (06:27):
Yeah, this is controversial, right
Like, I feel when I firstdiscovered imposter syndrome so
this is back in 2016, 2017, asfar as like heard the name I'd
always felt the feeling, but Ididn't have the words and the
language for it.
And what I learned, you know, inthat research from Susan Ims
and Pauline Clance they studieda lot of middle class white
(06:48):
women, college educated, sothere's definitely some bias in
the research.
Most research, you know,there's nothing new there, but
it talked about these highachieving women who still, you
know, felt as though theyweren't worthy, as if, you know,
there was self-doubt aroundtheir accomplishments.
They had the resume right, theyhad the receipts, but they
still had the self-doubt.
(07:09):
And that really resonated withme because, again, I had those
accolades and the achievementsand so forth, and I still felt a
lot of that self-doubt.
I still felt like an imposterin a lot of different spaces,
especially when I changedcareers, you know, from
journalism to nonprofits, andthat was a whole identity shift
in crisis in and of itself.
And what I realized in somemore recent years is that two
(07:33):
things can be true, right Like,imposter syndrome does exist, I
do believe.
You know, you cannot reduce orminimize someone's feelings, and
so if they feel as though theyhave it, then they have it right
.
And racism, misogyny, sexism,ableism and all these other isms
also exist and can perpetuatethe imposter syndrome.
(07:54):
And so I've heard and have hadthis debate with some other
black women and it's like, yeah,that's great, I'm so happy for
those of us who don't have it.
That is amazing, and there'sstill some of us who do, and
that's okay as well, like twothings can exist.
And so I feel as though that'sbeen certainly the case in my
life and career where I havefelt this imposter syndrome and
(08:16):
it has been heightened by beingthe only black woman in the room
, oftentimes Like that certainlydoesn't help the case.
I think imposter syndrome getseven worse when you find that
you're the only one who lookslike you or identifies like you
do, and any situation or spacethat you're in, and so I do
think that it is true and Ithink that there are systemic
(08:38):
barriers and places andoppression, et cetera, that help
to intensify it and make iteven worse.
Portia Mount (08:46):
Yeah, yeah, lori on, I think I'm guessing you've
read the same article that wehave.
There's an HBR article thatcame out next You're not too
long ago, a couple of years,that basically said stop telling
women they have the impostersyndrome.
And they made the point exactlythat you're pointing out that
oftentimes it's the system, it'sthe organizational system that,
(09:06):
for lack of a, you know,elegant way to say it, is not
inclusive.
Right, when we don't feelincluded, then we don't feel
welcome, then we don't feel likewe are and therefore we don't
feel like we belong in thatspace, which exacerbates that
feeling of like, oh my god, like, can I even do this job?
Like, can I, am I even cut outfor it, when we all know, as
black women, we tend to beOverqualified for everything we
(09:30):
have to have so much, so manymore qualifications just to get
in the door.
So I appreciate that you'veadded that nuance, because
that's I think that was aforgotten piece.
I think, as we, you know, tryto go to figure out like, why is
this happening to us?
I'd love for you to talk abouthow do you embrace your inner
dupeness, because I love theflipping of the table on that.
What does that mean?
(09:51):
How do you do it?
Give us this, give us the cheatcode.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (09:57):
For me it honestly came down to Making
friends with your impostersyndrome and the book and stop
waiting for perfect and, likefun fact, trust your dope.
This was the original title ofthe book.
Portia Mount (10:07):
Based on that article, yeah, your editor was
like no, we can't do.
That was it.
Was it too urban?
Was the thought was the titleto what had happened.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (10:22):
What had happened was none of us did
our research, we didn't know.
A global conglomerate, majorglobal conglomerate owns the
copyright.
Mmm, I don't have major globalconglomerate lawsuit money.
Portia Mount (10:36):
Nobody does, nobody does darn it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (10:40):
No, buddy we had the rollerback and
come up with you had to take astep back.
Okay, okay, we have to take astep back.
Come up the plan B, theoriginal version.
Trust your dope.
This was inspired by my friend,melissa Kimball, who's the
founder of hashtag blackcreatives amazing, phenomenal
person, and she had given methis pep talk before a Twitter
(11:00):
chat.
Our IP, you know Twitter.
I refuse to call it by its newname.
Portia Mount (11:04):
We, we are, we are aligned.
We do not use, we do not callit to the other name, we don't
we don't, we will not speak.
We won't speak of it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (11:12):
Think of that name.
Portia Mount (11:13):
Yeah, and don't, and do not know when.
Dms, don't add us on this.
That it's yeah, not a debate.
We call it Twitter.
It's Twitter, it's Twitter.
Okay, it's Twitter.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (11:23):
It's always gonna be.
It's always gonna be Twitterforever forever Twitter forever
forever.
So there was this Twitter chatshe invited me to be on.
It was a panel about Blackwomen and I think it was around
a study that had to do with thelike really high suspension
rates of black girls in Americain the school system, etc.
So, yes, something you knowvery passionate about, and the
(11:47):
other panelists was the head ofa nonprofit for black girls and
very beforehand I was likeMelissa, I don't think I'm
qualified, like I am not.
You know, I haven't done theresearch.
I'm not leading a nonprofit.
I volunteered for the nonprofitbut I wasn't, you know, at the
head of the table and she gaveme this really inspiring and pep
talk that I still have thescreenshot of to this day and
(12:09):
still refer to and this is likesix, eight years ago and
Essentially was telling me totrust my darkness, trust your
voice.
You have a lot of gifts andvalue that you bring to the
table, even if it doesn't lookthe same as the researcher or
the Executive director of thenonprofit like you, still your
voice matters, your storymatters, you still have
(12:31):
something that is worthy toshare and, as I have gone on
since then, I started to look atImposter syndrome as kind of a
good thing, for me at least,because it means that I'm
leveling up Somehow in my career, in my personal life.
I'm stepping outside of thatcomfort zone, right, because
(12:52):
that's when imposter syndromeshows up for me the most.
Portia Mount (12:54):
Yes, when I'm trying something new.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (12:56):
I'm doing something different,
something I've never done before, something that is Requiring a
lot out of me, and something new.
And so it's kind of like, okay,this is new, this is scary, and
this is different and I amcapable, I am smart.
You know, I have done hardthings before and this is just,
you know, a Reminder that, okay,we've outgrown that comfort
(13:20):
zone and I think that that is asign.
Looking at imposter syndrome as, like this, sign of growth and
the.
We all know that the magichappens Outside of that comfort
zone.
So imposter syndrome is, for me, I'm kind of like reframing the
narrative and like, okay, thisis good because it means that
we're leveling up and that isnecessary for Success, for
(13:43):
growth, to, you know, like, doall the ambitious things that I
have in mind.
It is going to be uncomfortableand make me, you know, doubt
myself, but I have to pushthrough in order to get to the
other side.
Portia Mount (13:55):
Oh, I love that, I love that reefer, I love that
reframe and I love the, theframework of Imposter syndrome
as a signifier that you're goingoutside of your comfort zone
and therefore it's a good.
It's a good thing.
Wow, I think that's gonnaresonate with so many members of
the squad L'Oreal.
I want to zero in on this kindof issue of perfection.
(14:17):
You know a perfectionism andyou, you know we start at the
top of this conversation.
We'll be talking about beingthe, a student, right and like.
I think that's super relatableto.
I like to call myself arecovering Overachiever and I
know a lot of women who you knowthey're self-professed
recovering Perfectionists andbut you know, if you work to
corporate America especially,you quickly learn that being
(14:39):
perfect rarely if ever.
Okay, I'm just gonna go saynever gets you promoted and
never gets you like the bestassignments, it never gets you
the best of anything.
It just doesn't work.
So I'm just curious, you know,why are so many of us struggling
with perfectionism?
What is going on?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (14:59):
And it's really funny that you
mentioned the promotion inparticular, because that is
without giving too much away,but in recently leaving, you
know, the newsroom and goingback to full-time Freelance
writing, as Tiffany mentionedearlier, because I had that aha
moment.
Finally, like I got theperformance review was going
(15:20):
after the promotion Was promised.
The promotion hit all themetrics, exceeded the goals and
the KPIs and the page views andStill only got met expectations.
The math wasn't math in likeright.
I'm like how does one exceedthe goals and still only?
(15:40):
And that's when I realize it'snever going to be enough.
No, never going to be enough.
They are constantly going toraise the bar and move the
goalpost and I Can work my assoff and it's not going to be
enough.
And then, in the course ofbecause again, recovery and
(16:01):
perfectionist, overachiever,highly ambitious, like my
default setting is do the most.
Yes, I don't know any other wayof being guilty as charged as
charged.
Then guilty.
Portia Mount (16:14):
As you need a support club.
We do, we do.
We're gonna start a wholecommunity of do the most, but
even when you're asked doesn'tneed to be doing the most.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (16:23):
That's what that's.
Portia Mount (16:24):
That's what that's what we're gonna call this
canoe tag line.
Go sit down, go just go laydown somewhere, don't do them up
, stop Okay.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (16:33):
Have all the seats.
I have all the seats yes, I'veseats, yes, and my therapist
over the summer was like I'mstarting to see, I'm starting to
notice some depressive symptoms, mmm, and the journalist in me,
of course, was like what do youmean by that?
And so some of the symptomswere fatigue, irritability
(16:54):
there's a fancy word for thisthat I don't remember and it
begins with an A but it was likenot finding pleasure in the
things that you used to enjoy.
But it was like check, check,check.
And the thing for me, thebreaking point, was Not having
the energy to play with mydaughter when she got home from
daycare.
Mmm, because, listen, we andthose who are familiar with my
(17:15):
journey know, but those whoaren't like, we went through a
lot to have her multiple roundsof IVF and Fail cycles and
trends, all of these things.
So a lot of time, energy andmoney Just call it like it is
Went into having this kid, andnow I don't have the energy to
(17:36):
play with you and you get homeafter you've been at daycare all
day and there is, you know,like feelings around that as
well, because you know, you, mom, guilt is a israel.
It's real and I was absolutelythis is not worth it and that's
not the example that I want toset for her right.
Because we've all heard it.
We saw the scandal episode.
The you know work twice as hardto get half as much has been
(17:59):
like the black girl mantra.
Daddy, papa Pope forever right.
He laid it in he spoke thetruth.
Portia Mount (18:05):
I did it just like it broke us all down.
I remember how we were all onTwitter talking about it the
next day like, oh my god acollective drag.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (18:15):
All of us, all of us, and it's like why
I'm in it I didn't sleep withthe president, like, why do you
have to come for me?
right, exactly, it's justattacking, attacking us.
Yeah, so rude and so truthfuland so honest.
And that is the mentality thatI was raised with, that my mom
was raised with how she, youknow, distilled that into me and
(18:35):
my sister and it was a survivalmechanism for black people,
black women.
And I want better, I wantdifferent for my daughter.
I don't want her to have toPlay into that lie and that myth
, because that's the thing likeyou can work twice as hard,
three times as hard, four timesas hard, and it's not going to
get you the promotion, is notgoing to guarantee success, it
(18:57):
won't get you the six-figuresalary.
Like, so let's do it by our ownrules.
Like let's make our own way,let's live a softer life where
we're not as stressed, becausethat has a toll on our physical
health, our mental health, as Ilearned, you know, the hard way
over the summer.
And so I want to model for hera different way and that's my
(19:17):
Accountability, that's my legacy, like and so I want, I don't
want to pass on the overwork andthe trauma and the depression
and the anxiety and all of thatonto her.
So I have to choose and live adifferent way for her to see
what's possible.
Portia Mount (19:33):
I I love that so much.
Lori at L'Oreal.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (19:37):
How do you step into that space where 80%
or less is good enough for youIf you've been tearing
perfection on the inside?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (19:47):
yeah, that's been a work in progress
and I have a mentor, kyra Kyle's, and I love dearly, and she was
one of the first people to tellme that she's like listen, your
60%, 80% is someone else's, 100, 120%, like that's just how I'm
wired.
Yeah, so I don't have to, Idon't have to do the most, and
(20:10):
Getting out of my own way.
And writing the book was alesson in humility first and
foremost, and also I'm learningperfection, because it's like,
okay, these things don't gotogether.
Parenting and perfection don'tmix, like that was a really
early wake-up call.
They do not like it just don'tgo together, never have and
(20:31):
never will.
And so what am I even trying todo there?
And then in writing the book, itwas like coming up on the
deadline for that first draftand I was just like this ain't
ready, this isn't perfect, right, because again, that pressure,
I'm a black woman in publishing,so I have to make sure that I'm
showing up and I'm perfect sothat other black women get
opportunities.
(20:51):
And you know the whole first,only different thing that Shonda
Rhimes talks about and not thatI'm the first, only different
you know one to get a publishingcontract, but like there aren't
a lot of us, and so thepublishers, the bookstores and
everybody use those numbers andhow our books sell yeah, in
order to determine, you know,future contracts for myself,
(21:12):
other writers etc.
So a lot of that pressure I puton myself and it was like, no,
this isn't, this, isn't it?
Like the first draft is notmeant to be perfect, like Anne
Lamont writes about the shittyfirst draft.
That's real, that's just, it iswhat it is like.
Get it down on the paper andstop trying to do my job and my
editor's job, like her job, isto help me make it sound good
(21:34):
and read better.
So let me let her do her joband let me focus on doing my job
.
And the thing that really drovethat home for me One of the few
times I was sitting in a coffeeshop working on the book A lot
of it was written in the notesapp in the nursery at two, four
o'clock in the morning when Iwas breastfeeding my daughter
when she was a newborn Was justlike.
I saw this tweet that said youcan edit bad, but you can't edit
(21:56):
nothing so well.
I've got a point on the paperand we can make it better.
We can make it better, but Ihave to get it out there and
just realizing and accepting andbelieving that Done is better
than perfect, mmm, because youcan always, always go back, I
mean, well, now the book ispublished, so you know so you
(22:17):
can't go back.
I wish I could change, but Ican't go back to that.
But you know, maybe if it getsa second edition or something
like that, but the thingclaiming that out there and it's
reaching people.
Yeah, thank you, it's reachingthe people it needs to reach and
that's because I got of my outof my own way and didn't let you
know Perfect be the enemy ofgood, and that is really really
(22:41):
crucial.
To do anything artistic orcreative, but like to create
anything at all.
Period done is better thanperfect.
Portia Mount (22:49):
I Remember Following you and I were not
Twitter friends like you andTiffany, but now we now we're
gonna be Twitter friends.
Yes, I remember following yourstory of trying to have have
your daughter and as someone whowent through a lot of fertility
issues as well, and like, andthen I remember feeling so
Trampled for you when youfinally had her, because you
(23:12):
brought people along and yourvulnerability and sharing your
story and, I think, sharing thelike, even sharing the issues
around depression, and Part ofwhat I love is that you're doing
and so you know, you and otheramazing black women are telling
this other side of our story,which is the story of we do not
(23:33):
have to carry the whole world onour shoulders, we don't have to
pretend like we have it alltogether.
And my question for you is youknow, in thinking about this
book, that you've burned.
This is your other baby and youput into the world.
Are there a couple of justreally Key things you want
(23:54):
Readers to take away?
Like there's a lot in this book.
I was skimming it, I just gotit, so I was skimming it, but
I'm going to read it over theholidays.
But are there a couple thingswere like, if you take away
nothing else, what is it youwant your readers to?
To feel, see, think, do as aresult of reading your book?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (24:13):
to take comfort in the fact that you
are enough as you are right nowshowing up.
You know, imperfectly, perfect,right.
There is a lot of pressure thatwe put on ourselves as women,
especially women of color, blackwomen more than any other.
I feel like to have it alltogether and you don't.
(24:36):
You don't need to have it alltogether.
That is not any kind of markerindication of how worthy you are
or the type of person that youare and what you need and
deserve from the world.
And asking for help honestly.
That was one of the chaptersthat I talk about in that it
takes a village we talk all thetime.
It takes a village to raise akid and I'm finding every single
(24:59):
day.
It takes a village also toraise a mom, to raise the
parents and I was so raised tobe independent.
Be the strong black woman.
Have it together.
I'm the one who helps everyoneelse.
Right?
I don't need help because that'sa sign of weakness, that's a
sign of vulnerability, and Ireached a breaking point last
year, about a year or so afterher daughter was born, where it
(25:21):
was just like it had shit hit itthe fan.
It was just like I can nolonger pretend.
I can no longer do this on myown.
I need help.
I need to not only ask for helpbut get comfortable receiving
the help, and that part, I think, will be a little bit trickier,
more than ever to let people in, to be vulnerable and to admit
(25:42):
that I can't do this on my own.
And that's okay.
Social media is a lie.
Everything else, there's a lotout there, there's a lot of
noise.
So the biggest takeaways youare enough, you do not have to
be perfect, you can show up asyou are and it is okay to ask
and receive help when you get it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:02):
Drag me.
You really just dragged me alittle bit.
What's up?
It's okay to receive that help.
Portia Mount (26:08):
Receive it, tiffany, receive it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:14):
I'm like on my neck because I think
something that we do as women,as Black women especially, is we
will affirm other women on thestreet.
You know like you look amazing.
You killed that presentation.
I love the way that you pulledthis together.
Can you teach me how to do X, yand Z, because you know I'm not
(26:36):
great at this?
We have an entire cultureonline where I can find a
different influencer or thoughtleader for whatever it is.
I'm trying to learn that lookslike me now.
Thank you to the internet.
Portia Mount (26:47):
Yes, thank you, beyonce's internet.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (26:51):
I was literally thinking that.
Portia Mount (26:54):
Yes, thank you to Beyonce.
Thank you to Beyonce andBeyonce's internet.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (26:58):
Yes, and as I like to say, my birthday
twin.
Thank you to Beyonce.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (27:04):
Now you're just showing off.
Portia Mount (27:06):
I mean just I was wondering when she was going to
slip in that she and Beyonceshare a birthday Because let me
just tell you L'Oreal I am tiredof the information.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (27:18):
It comes up often, Often often how
does it feel to be God'sfavorite it?
Portia Mount (27:22):
does I know right, right, exactly exactly.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (27:27):
It's so easy for us to tell other people
how bomb they are.
You're enough, you're killingit, keep going.
And yet it is so difficult toturn that energy inward.
And it's like I don't know.
I don't know that I've gottenit right, but I really
appreciate you saying that andjust reminding us that we're
good, it's OK and like you're60%, you're 50% is 10, the next
(27:52):
person Right.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (27:54):
Like it is.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (27:55):
We're good Facts.
Portia Mount (27:57):
I needed to hear that today.
We need to hear it every singleday, tiffany, and you know,
loria, tiffany and I were havinga chat earlier and we were just
talking about how, as blackwomen and you referenced this we
get used to fixing everything.
We will fix the broken things.
We are being asked to fixdemocracy right now and I love
(28:17):
that.
Women, black women- again, againagain again Because we did
trigger, because, yeah, I know Iknow, it's like I just unlocked
a core memory, I know, but theonly way that we stop doing that
is we stop doing that.
We say we are not doing thatRight, and so I and it's all in
my mind.
This is all intertwined withwhat you're saying around this
perfection and feeling, you know, feeling like we have the
(28:38):
obligation to do that.
No, we don't.
We can just go and lay ourasses down.
We could just go lay down.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (28:43):
Listen, just go lay down.
And there's about this timelast year, right after
Thanksgiving, we were in Hawaiiwith my family and hiking
diamond head, which I've hikedbefore.
No big deal Did it before.
I could do it again.
A lot different with the20-some-pound toddler strap in
my back right.
We're going up.
(29:04):
You're like hey, this baby is soheavy, this baby is so heavy,
Listen, and we're at the next,like at the next to last, Like I
can see the top.
I can see the top of thevolcano and old L'Oreal would
have pushed through becausethat's my default mode.
Portia Mount (29:19):
It's like push through, push through, push
through.
Suffer yes.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (29:22):
Because you set a goal, you have to
reach it.
No matter what we have to do,the goal we have to.
We have to cross it off thelist.
And what I'm starting to paymore attention to is my body,
like when my brain is sayingpush through.
That's actually my body beinglike press pause.
And I turned my butt around,found my family, gave the baby
(29:44):
to my sister, took a breath,drank a lot of water, and then I
turned to her.
And because I remember in thatmoment my therapist telling me
like when you find yourself inthese challenging situations, I
want you to think what would youwant Violet to do?
And then do that.
So I turned to her.
Mind you, she had just turnedone.
She's looking at me but notreally comprehending.
(30:07):
But I'm like mommy's tiredright now and it's important
that we listen to our body andhonor our boundaries and rest
when we need to.
And she's just like okay, butwhere are my snacks?
Like looking at me, but notreally.
But it was important for me totell her why and to model that
(30:28):
self-care and that rest and thatsoftness and that that is
strength too, 100%, 100%.
Portia Mount (30:35):
And I love that.
You've used the word softness acouple of times here and I love
you know, I love the whole softgirl, soft woman, ease.
I love that that language isbecoming normalized for us as
black women.
I think we need to talk, Ithink we need and we need,
especially people who are inyour role to normalize that
(30:58):
broadly, because that is notpart of our vernacular.
We are about grindhouse.
You know we have been aboutgrindhouse.
Get it done, do everything foreveryone and not ourselves.
So I absolutely want to likeunderscore how important it is
that you're talking about that.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (31:17):
Because we deserve rest too.
We deserve the soft life and,yes, life a luxury.
But when I think of thesoftness, I'm thinking of Trisha
Hersey and the Nat Ministry andRest as.
Resistance.
Rest being a revolution Likethat's the kind of softness.
Now, don't get me wrong, I wantthe luxury too, right because I
do.
Portia Mount (31:34):
I definitely want that because I'm kind of bougie
Royals.
So I will just say I want allof those things.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (31:41):
All of it.
Yes, she's very bougie.
She's very bougie actually.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (31:45):
Not Tiffany coming in with us.
Portia Mount (31:47):
I know like I was gonna say like Tiffany, you
might want to sit this one out,so funny.
Yes.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (31:55):
What.
Portia Mount (31:58):
Anyway, anyway, let's re-diagress.
We digress, moving on, movingon.
We digress.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (32:04):
Well, L'Oreal, you've kind of
mentioned, you know, thisconcept of honoring your body,
listening to your body, settinga boundary, asking for help,
receiving help, remindingyourself that you're good enough
.
Are there any other practicaltips you would encourage for
someone who's trying to trusttheir dope-ness, combat
perfectionism and allowthemselves to be fully human,
(32:28):
instead of these likehigh-achieving robots, Like what
would you encourage people todo?
Just daily small things thatyou do?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (32:36):
One of the exercises that I include in
the book and there's a templateas well is writing this breakup
letter to your inner critic,because we all have one, unless
you're, you know, cisgender,heterosexual, white man.
I'm just saying Bike drop, bikedrop Elon Musk.
I mean what.
We all have an inner critic.
(32:57):
I don't think EM does.
No, he absolutely.
Well, that was, you've seen thetweet.
That's like some people needimposter syndrome, Just saying,
I'm just saying, Just saying.
Portia Mount (33:12):
I'm just saying.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (33:14):
So, for you know, the rest of us who do
have this inner critic, thatnegative voice right that's
constantly telling you you'renot good enough, you don't
deserve to be here.
What are you doing?
Naming that critic, confrontingthem head-on.
Name my negative Nancy.
I like alliteration, but I'vedone this exercise in a couple
of different workshops and thenames that people come up with
are very creative.
(33:35):
There's, like there was anantagonistic Angela, pessimistic
Pedro, like I was.
Like oh, I have to, I mighthave to rethink my, my critic's
name, but anyway, writing aletter to your critic, and for
me it started with gratitudebecause I recognized that she
was trying to keep me safe.
She's like girl I want to doout here, embarrassing yourself,
(33:57):
embarrassing us, like we, Ilike the comfort zone, let's
stay in the comfort zone.
We know the comfort zone andI'm like thank you, I appreciate
what you are trying to do andnow it's time for you to.
You know, take a backseat.
I'm in the driver's wheel now,like I'm in control and I've got
this and doing that as manytimes as you need to Like.
(34:19):
You know, it sounds very likewoo-woo in theory, but in
practice, especially in a groupsetting, like if y'all had a
little book club and you decidedto do it together and then read
your letters aloud.
There is so much power inreclaiming that you know just
doing away with that voice,reclaiming your powers.
What I was trying to sayearlier and just kind of pushing
(34:40):
that negativity to the side andnot saying that it never comes
up again.
I think that's the other thingwith imposter syndrome, self
doubt and a lot of this innernegativity is that you know it
might dwindle down for a littlebit in society, like while your
new level becomes your newcomfort zone, but then when you
edge out of that and you levelup again it's gonna come
(35:00):
bubbling back up to the surfaceand so you'll need to do this
exercise again.
And I'm also a big fan ofaffirmations, guided meditations
.
Leila Delia has a really goodone on Insight Timer about
reclaiming your power.
That I listened to on theregular and it's just really
powerful, very groundingexercise and just kind of
(35:23):
reminds you of the badass thatyou are.
I listened to it before doingthe interview for my first cover
story ever that I recentlywrote when I was switching
careers two times over.
As Tiffany mentioned, I've donea lot of back and forth, so
it's just really finding thosethings that help remind you of
your power and your strength indoing them on a regular basis.
(35:45):
It's like maintenance for yourconfidence.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (35:48):
Yeah, I don't know what I would call my
inner critic.
Portia Mount (35:51):
I'm gonna come up with that.
That's good.
I'm sure mine is like JudyMcJudgy.
That's my inner critic.
Judy McJudgy, I like that.
Yeah, judy McJudgy.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:00):
Judy McJudgy.
Portia Mount (36:01):
Judy McJudgy.
So L'Oreal.
This is one of our favoriteparts of our pod interviews.
The Squad loves these.
It's our lightning around.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:11):
I wish I had a little musical thing
going on.
Portia Mount (36:14):
But first question for you in Lightning Round is
what's your favorite motto orphrase that best defines your
mindset?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:24):
Yeah, maya Angelou has this quote as
she says that success is likingyourself, liking what you do and
liking how you do it.
And that's my guiding light andprinciple.
Portia Mount (36:34):
And like if I can check all these three boxes.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:36):
We're doing good, I love that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:39):
OK, you are accepting a huge award.
What is your walk-on song?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (36:44):
I really tried to distill this
down to just one, but it's athree-way tie with Run the World
Girls Formation and Diva, moreBeyonce.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (36:55):
Ok, all Beyonce, all Beyonce.
Portia Mount (36:56):
You are on it.
Did you know that Tiffany wasborn on Beyonce's birthday?
L'oreal Do you know they sharea birthday?
Did you know that Tiffany andBeyonce share a birthday?
Did you know that?
Anyway, I love Run the World,by the way.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (37:13):
I still walk that song on my playlist.
Portia Mount (37:14):
I love Run the World.
It's just like it hypes you up.
That is a great and Diva, ithelps you up.
These are all great walk-onsongs.
I love that.
I love it, love it Love it,Love it yeah we're going to be
making a podcast playlist.
We're going to make a playlist.
Yeah, we're making a Spotifyplaylist, which is going to be
super fun.
So what is one book besidesyour own, besides your own, that
(37:34):
you find yourself recommendingor gifting on the regular?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (37:39):
Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, and
I reread it every.
January, and it's fun becauseour covers look very similar
Like.
When I first saw the cover formine, it reminded me of hers,
but for any creative, any artist, it's just a really good
reminder of the power that youhave and why your creativity
matters and it's important tonurture it.
(38:00):
So that's my repeat read everyJanuary.
Portia Mount (38:04):
Right on, right on .
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:06):
OK, what's the best purchase under 150
bucks you've ever made?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:12):
Under $150.
I'm trying to remember if myApple Watch was under $150.
Portia Mount (38:17):
It was not.
I can't live without this thing.
Your Apple Watch is not lessthan $150.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:22):
But it's like three versions ago, so
I'm trying to think about it.
If you have an, Apple Watch oneL'Oreal.
Portia Mount (38:31):
Are you sure it was a real?
Tiffany Waddell Tate (38:32):
Apple and not a bootleg.
Portia Mount (38:34):
If it was not a bootleg.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:38):
Apple was from Costco, so I guess it
could be Everyone's like.
Portia Mount (38:43):
where can we get these $150 Apple Watches?
I'm sorry.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (38:49):
That sounds like I don't remember.
I don't.
I feel like there's some app.
No, I take this back.
Therapy Notebook by Simple Self.
I just bought it and have beenusing it in just four sessions
so far, and it has made mytherapy sessions even more
productive, because that's thekind of person I am, who likes
to be productive about therapy.
Portia Mount (39:10):
Are you a Virgo as well?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (39:12):
No, I'm a Scorpio, so OK, I'm a little
sultry, you're a little sultry.
Portia Mount (39:18):
She's like super cool.
I'm very organized andproductive.
I love it.
I love it.
Ok, so L'Oreal.
Now this is a safe space forthis next question.
What's a secret, unpopularopinion that you hold?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (39:36):
Oh, I'm trying to think if I have
anything super controversial.
I'm pretty Basic in that regardbecause I I love, like, pumpkin
spice.
Portia Mount (39:45):
That's not controversial, but in like I do
like pumpkin pie, because thatis no, absolutely Right here.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (39:56):
Wait, what's wrong with pumpkin pie?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (40:07):
There's nothing if you're, you know
okay.
Portia Mount (40:10):
So some of our squad may not know, because you
know our squad is very diverse,but squad Black people typically
do not eat pumpkin.
It is in like we just don't eatit.
So Except for Tiffany Tiffanyclearly is about to make a
confession here that she likespumpkin pie.
But this is just.
This is just a thing of like.
We don't eat pumpkin pie, it'ssweet potatoes, sweet potato pie
(40:33):
.
For us, sweet potato pie.
Yeah, so it would be and highlyunpopular opinion among black
people anyway, if you atePumpkin pie, I think Kevin on
stage Kevin had on stage had awhole thing on thanks during
Thanksgiving about eating, likeeating pumpkin pie secretly.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (40:49):
Yeah, oh I, but it's the thing I like
pumpkin lattes, the Pancakesmovies, everything but the pie.
Portia Mount (40:58):
Okay, that's extreme.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (40:59):
That's a lot of pumpkin.
Portia Mount (41:00):
But that's not unpopular, I don't think All
right.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (41:03):
Okay, last question what's a hobby you
have?
That would surprise most peoplewho know you.
I.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (41:10):
Had thought about this one.
I don't know that there'sanything surprising, but a
little known fact that otherpeople who don't know me
Wouldn't know is that I wasunanimously voted in
miscongeniality and a regionalpole fitness competition Back in
2013.
Portia Mount (41:26):
Did you say pole?
Pole fitness, as in like beingon the pole.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (41:32):
Mm-hmm, I like to look at that.
I'm a show by one day.
Be like your mom was a baddieback in the day.
Did you take like?
Portia Mount (41:43):
pole, like I'm, by the way, I have to say, when I
watched P Valley, which was anamazing series, a Directed the
credit, I don't know show runner, a black woman.
These women are athletes likeit is.
Unbelievable just how strongand flexible they are.
Did you take Classes and thingslike that?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (42:02):
Oh yeah , yeah, I was obsessed.
I was in the studio like everand, honestly, best workout I've
ever done.
Everyone who knows me now islike, aren't you about that
Peloton life?
Yes, and before then I was, Iwas a pole girly.
It's the instill, the bestworkout ever, and it's like more
than the physical part.
Yeah, it was like women ofevery background, body type,
(42:23):
like there was a60-some-year-old grandma one of
my classes Doing tricks andspins that I could never and so
it was just wow, a goodconfidence booster.
Like the energy was so good.
I highly recommend.
Portia Mount (42:39):
Always wanted to do a pole class because, let me
just tell you, I could justimagine myself like hanging on
for dear life and some littlestruggle heels trying to get up
that pole.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (42:50):
It's a lot of core, it's a bear, it's a
full body workout, but it'sthere's a lot of core involved
as well.
Portia Mount (42:55):
I had a C-section.
I do not have the core.
I'm sure I don't have the corefor for pole, but I.
Really.
But I'm super impressed by F1.
I'm like incredibly impressedthat you've done this and I'm,
like I said, these women, in myview, are athletes.
It, just it, just the agilityand flexibility they have.
So that's.
That is super cool.
Where did you do your poledancing classes?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (43:16):
exposed fitness.
When I was back in Baltimoreand when I moved to Chicago, I
was at Flirty girl, which issince closed down, which was
really sad, and that's kind ofwhat led me to Peloton.
Anyways, because my studioclosed and okay which it was
just really.
It was really sad moment.
I I miss those girls a lotbecause we had such a good thing
going so that's awesome.
Portia Mount (43:35):
I follow a few pole dancers on Instagram and
they are.
They're amazing and you'reright.
Like all the different bodytypes of women who Do, it is
pretty amazing.
Yeah, l'oreal, it has been sucha pleasure to have you on the
pod.
Thank you, we want ever.
We're gonna be linking to yourbook and to your website and you
(43:56):
have any any upcoming speakingevents for 2024?
You do you have like full slateof speaking events and where
can people like come in here youspeak, if you know, in the new
year?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (44:06):
Yeah, there's a couple of local ones
and then some differentorganizations that I'm gonna be
speaking, I, but I'm likeNorthwestern 11th Evanston and
so they're Delta chapter,actually inviting you to speak
or doing like a book club withit and, yeah, more to come.
So, as always, follow me onsocial media L team the city and
(44:26):
my weekly newsletter at L teamthe city, comm, and I drop all
of the, so the things there andI'm all gonna teaching yoga and
starting next year to finallymaking good on the training that
I did back at the height of thepandemic.
So I'm excited to Wait intothose waters as well.
Portia Mount (44:43):
That's awesome.
You, I love that you're somulti-faceted to you and, and
you know, just I think, thankyou for your vulnerability and
for cheering your journey and Ihope that the squad listening
really just internalizes thesemessages that you've shared,
because we just we have theability to Be more than
(45:05):
ourselves in a way that wedefine for ourselves.
I think is really powerful andyou, you, sharing your journey,
I think it's shown how like one,one path for doing that.
So just appreciate you so muchfor for that.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (45:16):
Thank you, thank you both for having
me.
This was so much fun.
I love the laughter and knownow that Tiffany and Beyonce
share a birthday.
Oh gosh.
Portia Mount (45:27):
Don't blow her head up anymore.
L'oreal because we are verytired of it.
No we let we love Tiffany andwe love and we definitely love
beyond, we definitely loveBeyonce.
Tiffany Waddell Tate (45:37):
So we are, we are definitely yeah, yes, we
don't want the high comingafter us.
Okay, we do not want the high.
Portia Mount (45:43):
I'm like dude, we don't want the high, we do not
want the smoke.
I'm just gonna say we don'twant the high smoke at all.
So, l'oreal Thompson Peyton,thank you so much for joining us
and we look forward to havingyou back for your next book as
well.
So thank you for being justlike being, such a wonderful ray
of light for us.
So we appreciate you.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton (46:01):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for all the things.
Portia Mount (46:07):
Thanks for listening to the manifesta
podcast.
Our sound designer and audioengineer is Nina Pollock of Nina
Pollock sound.
Our Social media manager isdestiny Iker.
Have a question, comment ortopic for our next episode?
Email us at the manifesta atgmailcom.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
(46:27):
podcast, spotify or wherever youlisten to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
And don't forget to follow uson Instagram at the manifesta
and tiktok at the dot manifestapod.
See you next time.
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