March 21, 2025 • 57 mins
We are living in unique and challenging times, and this conversation with Dr. Shaurice Mullins will encourage and inspire you. Hear Dr. M’s journey of transformation and learn how identifying your core values will help you make decisions. Dr. M shares her perspective on affirmations and manifestation and provides practical advice to help you live the happy and fulfilling life you want.
Have a question or comment? Email us at ungovernablewomen@gmail.com.
Book mentioned in this episode: The Invincibility Code: How to Shift the Trajectory of Your Life and Crystalize a New Reality by Dr. Shaurice Mullins.
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Dr. Shaurice Mullins on LinkedIn
Dr. Shaurice Mullins’ Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of
Ungovernable Women, formerly theManifesta Podcast, the
lifestyle and career podcast foraspiring women.
Our new name reflects ourmission to reach even more
listeners with stories of womenwho are breaking boundaries and
redefining success.
I have a favor to ask you, ifyou haven't done so already,
please rate and subscribe to thepod.
(00:21):
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, it boosts our rankings
and helps more people discoverus.
Thanks for tuning in.
Welcome to Season 5 ofUngovernable Women, the career
and lifestyle podcast foraspiring women ready to break
barriers.
I'm Portia Mouw and I'mthrilled to be back.
We've got a new name, but ourmission remains stronger than
(00:43):
ever helping women find theirpurpose, lead high-impact
careers and meaningful lives.
This season, we'll bring youthe stories of women who forged
their own paths to success.
It's our time to shine.
Let's dive in.
We are truly living in uniquetimes right now and I cannot
(01:04):
imagine a more timely moment tobe speaking with our next guest.
My guest today is Dr CharisseMullins, known as Dr M, and she
is a transformational life coach, holistic counselor and
empowerment and breakthroughstrategist, and we're going to
get into what all of that meansin our conversation and
empowerment and breakthroughstrategists, and we're going to
(01:25):
get into what all of that meansin our conversation.
She is the founder of Count Emthree successful companies, and
I mean.
Her story is so incredible, andthrough these ventures she's
delivered actionable strategiesthat help her clients unlock new
levels of access, leadershipand financial freedom, and so we
will also link to her websitein the show notes so you can
(01:48):
connect with her.
She's got some amazing booksand products, and you'll get a
chance to invite you to take alook at those.
Her latest book is called theInvincibility Code.
Love that name how to Shift theTrajectory of your Life and
Crystallize a New Reality.
She's helped countless peopleget out of their own way and
(02:09):
align with their true purpose.
She's been featured in majormedia outlets, including Forbes
magazine, and broadcast outletsincluding CBS, abc and NBC.
Welcome, dr M.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hello, hello.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited about being herewith you today.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I am so happy to have you here.
You know, in the green room wewere just talking a little bit
about just the very unique timesthat we're living in, both
challenging the challenges andopportunities.
But before we dive into all ofthat, I wanted to start with
talking to you abouttransformation and empowerment.
I think those words are used alot these days, but you have
(02:51):
lived it, you understand it at aDNA level.
So what was the turning pointin your own life that led you
down this path of helping othersevolve and step into their
power?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
One thing I want to say is when you're a giver,
you're always giving to others.
What happens when the giverneeds someone to give to them?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
What happens when you're always empowering others,
you're always giving to othersand there's no one there to give
to you.
So that was the turning pointfor me.
I went through a point in mylife where I lost everything.
I was going through divorce.
I lost everything.
I went from not worrying aboutthe price tags on things to
literally sleeping on the floorwith my children trying to
(03:39):
figure out you know, basicallytrying to figure out what I was
going to do with my life.
So at that point I realizedthat giving is a good thing, but
you have to give to yourselffirst.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yes, and I think, as women, we forget that right,
especially as women and as Blackwomen, like we're used to doing
for others, but women, but allwomen, and as Black women, we do
it a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, we do it a lot, we also.
We do that because we're taughtthat when you give, you're
going to get more in return.
But what you have to learn isyou have to learn the wisdom in
giving, and so that was myturning point.
I'd given away everything thatI had, I'd given every ounce of
(04:22):
my energy, and when I neededsomeone to give to me, there I
was looking to the left and theright and there was no one there
, oh my God.
And so that was my turningpoint.
My turning point wasunderstanding that it's okay to
give, but you teach peoplearound you how to treat you.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Say that again.
We're about to have a sermon.
Everyone here, in case youhaven't noticed, we're about to
like.
It's going to be a sermon thatwe're jumping into here.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You teach people how to treat you.
So if you teach them, you comesecond.
You're going to always comesecond and that's going to be
the norm that you come second.
So my the point where mytransformation came was rock
bottom.
How do I give to myself the waythat I've given to others?
And that was a lesson in itself.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That is so powerful and I'm curious, like so how did
you, what did you do?
Like, how did you, like, whatdid giving to yourself look like
to start?
Because, honestly, I think somepeople again some women
especially don't really know.
It's not just going to get amanicure.
That we're talking about, right, we're not talking about a spa
(05:33):
day.
That's not what you're talkingabout, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, when I'm talking about giving to yourself, I'm
talking about the understandingof what you really are and your
uniqueness.
What I mean is, when I talkabout this, I'm talking about
what do you really like?
That's a question that I wasn'table to answer At first.
I know it sounds crazy, but Icould not.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
It doesn't sound crazy.
I'm sitting here thinking aboutthat.
What do you really like?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
for example, I could not think like do I?
What is my favorite color?
Do I really like this tv show?
Do I really like eating here?
Or did I?
Or did someone else tell methat this is what you should
like?
Do I really want to go and dothis for others?
Or have I been wearing thiscloak of guilt?
(06:24):
I should do this because and sowhat I had to come to the
conclusion, you know, just cometo the realization of some of
the things I was doing, portia,I just didn't like it.
Certain people I was hangingwith and doing things for, I
really didn't like them.
And that's what I mean when Isay who are you.
(06:46):
Your transformation comes whenyou can look yourself in the
mirror and say you have beenbeing fake, you haven't been
being real with yourself.
And if you can't do this withyourself, there's no way you can
be authentic with other people.
There's no way you can beauthentic with other people.
And it's nothing wrong withlooking in the mirror saying I
(07:09):
don't know who I am.
I really do not know who I am.
I don't know where to go from.
Here.
I got an idea of the thingsthat I like.
I think I know why I'm here butI really don't know, and I
think that transformation isabout coming to that
(07:30):
understanding and it being okay,not needing the approval of
someone else to tell you.
You know, if you do this, Ithink you'll be okay.
No, but what about those timeswhen you come in and you're
going against the grain?
Especially, as you know as aBlack woman, you go against the
grain a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
We do Like.
Whether we're trying to or not,oftentimes it's just what
happens.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, we go against the grain because we're told
that this should be this way andwe're looking at well, a little
bit of innovation could be here.
This could be a littledifferent, that could be a
little different.
But when you're taught thatyou're better when you're quiet,
You're better when you don't,you know you don't come with all
this stuff, all of these ideas.
Just be quiet.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Just fit in, Exactly so.
I think transformation andempowerment is about
understanding that maybe I wassent not to fit in.
Maybe I'm here to stand out.
Maybe I'm here to help dropsomething in somebody's mind
that they didn't think aboutbefore.
(08:36):
And be okay with that.
And just be okay with hey,maybe I am.
Maybe it is 100 people on thisjourney over here, but I'm just
supposed to be just one personwalking this journey.
Is that okay with you?
Ask yourself stuff like that.
Am I okay with being told I'mno longer going to be invited to
the in-crowd parties?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Maybe not.
What I'm struck by is that inthat self-discovery, you shed a
lot of old things, right, youshed old beliefs.
You shed, maybe, people youthought were your friends.
Maybe you even shed familymembers who don't accept the
(09:21):
person you are becoming.
The more you become yourself,the more you may have to shed
some people and things along theway.
Did you experience that, and isthat something that's common
with the clients that you workwith?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Oh my God.
Of course I experienced itbecause I'm from North Carolina,
I'm from the Bible Belt, sowhen I started experiencing that
maybe I'm more spiritual thanreligious, maybe I'm more I want
to seek you know what God is,rather than being told how or
(10:01):
what God is to me.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That is not very Southern at all, Charisse.
I say this as a Californianalso living here in the South.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is not very Southern at all, it is not very
Southern and so you findyourself losing a lot of friends
.
You find yourself in a positionwhere people feel like, hey,
you're going off a beaten path.
I even had someone to tell meoh my God, are you possessed?
Is everything okay with you?
Yeah, it just got reallyserious and I said you know what
(10:32):
?
I think I need to step outsideof this to find out who I really
am, because I've been in thisrealm since I was five years old
, being preached to, beingtalked to about how I should act
, who I should hang with, what Ishould dress, what I should say
(10:52):
and all of that.
And when I sat back and thoughtabout it, I said it could be
and I know this may be a harshword it could be a little
cultish for someone to tell youwhat you should be thinking, how
you should be thinking it,giving you check boxes of
approvals of if you're goodenough.
So what it instilled in me isjust a spirit of unworthiness.
(11:15):
For so many years I was just.
I felt unworthy of the goodnessthat life had to offer me.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That like hits me in my chest so hard to say that I
think that would resonate withso many listeners too.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You grow up with this and you carry this weight on
your shoulder that I'm reallynot worthy and, no matter what I
do, it's never going to be goodenough, and you don't realize
how that impacts everything youdo.
So if you're looking forsuccess in something and deep
down you really don't believeyou're worthy of it, you're not
(11:51):
going to manifest it, no matterhow hard you try.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And how could you right, and I can imagine too
this like feeling ofunworthiness then translates
into like we're always trying toplease other people, we're
trying to make ourselves likable, lovable, worthy of it's.
So it's external right, andwhat I'm hearing you say is we
start by getting to knowourselves, understanding who we
(12:20):
are, and sometimes it's asfundamental as, like what do I
like?
Do I really like all thesethings I've been doing?
Do I really like to do them, oris it something that I've been
told or I've just gone alongbecause that was the easy thing
to do?
And so what I'm hearing you sayis you have to really
fundamentally challenge some ofyour core beliefs.
Sometimes, if you don't reallyunderstand, if you can't answer
the question who am I Like?
(12:42):
What do I like?
You got to start with thebasics first.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, you start with a basis of aligning your values.
In my book, the InvincibilityCode, I talk about my top 12
values.
Now, they don't have to be inthe same order as mine, but you
definitely have to identify yourcore values so that you can
adjust your actions.
If you don't know your corevalues, you're going to live by
(13:09):
someone else's Amen to that.
You're going to live by someoneelse's values, and so it's not
about is something wrong withthe Bentley or the Lexus?
Yeah, it's about identifying.
Why do I want the Bentley orthe Lexus?
Why does this resonate with memore than it resonates with you?
And that's the problem.
We have other people'spreferences because we don't
(13:32):
know what our values are, and sowhen I start aligning mine, I
realized that happiness was atop value of mine, integrity was
number two, freedom was numberthree.
I had been trapped so long Ididn't realize that I wasn't
happy because I didn't have asense of freedom in my life.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
You don't even know what freedom was.
You don't know what freedom isright.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
When you're being dick-tagged to every day of how
you should act.
Oh, that's deep, that's notfreedom.
And so when you look at freedomin everything, it should be a
freedom to think, a freedom tospeak, a freedom to act
according to your values.
And what is that?
(14:20):
And when you identify that itmakes everything in your life so
much easier.
I'm giving you an example, Justas an example, if you have
friends and they're alwaysasking you to do things right
and you think I'm obligated todo it just because I've been
knowing this person for a longtime, or they're my friends, if
you stop for a moment, you mayrealize that some of the things
(14:42):
that you've been doing forpeople you don't really like
doing it, we just do it becausewell, she's my friend and I'm
obligated.
No, you're not.
It's okay for you to say youknow what.
I've been thinking about it,sarah, and I don't think I like
doing it.
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Do it yourself.
Do it yourself, but that's bigright, like it's big to.
You know I can.
This resonates for me so deeplybecause I know so many women I
know I was in that camp too oflike somebody asked me to do
something and one.
I didn't want the confrontationof saying no, but then I would
(15:23):
say yes and I would feel kind ofresentful Charisse, of like I
would do it, but like my I callit my inner monologue.
My inner monologue was like whyam I doing this for this?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
mean Like I right, and so it's like well, that's
not healthy either.
If I'm not doing it with joy,if I'm not doing it with a sense
of openness, then why would Isay, why am I saying yes to
things that I really want to sayno to Right?
And that's the, and especiallywhat I'm hearing you say is like
but the way we can maybecircuit, we can short circuit
that as getting really clear onwhat we and I'm a huge believer
(15:56):
in core values as well becausethen all the incoming, it's
easier to sort out the incomingthat's coming at you, cause
you'd be like yes to this, no tothat.
It's easier to sort out theincoming that's coming at you
because you're being like yes tothis, no to that, whatever,
because you know where you stand.
But I know so many women whoare like, yeah, well, you know,
I just feel like I should do itbecause I've always done it.
And well, why, why?
(16:18):
Why are we saying yes to allthis?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
excuse my language shit that we don't want to do.
Exactly the stuff that youreally don't want to do, exactly
the stuff that that that youreally don't want to do.
And you sit there later saying,oh my god, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And then we're like trash talking, we're trash
talking it later now.
That's not aligned.
That's not aligned is it?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
let me listen I'm talking to myself too, by the
way, just so you know you know,I told someone the other day I
told, I told a lady, the otherwoman the other day I listen,
what do you think a person isdoing when they're asking you to
do something that you don'treally want to do?
And she said what do you mean?
I said they're exercising theirpower of selfish.
(16:58):
You haven't done it yet, so youwalk away resentful because you
haven't activated that power.
When you activate that power,you realize oh, it's so much
deliciousness and saying no tothings, it's so delicious, it's
like no, it is delicious.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I've never heard it described that way, but it is
very delicious.
There's deliciousness in sayingno and I'm going to this.
I'm going to remember this,this part, forever.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's delicious.
And when you realize that, oh,I did that with no explanation,
right See, sometimes, when wesay no, we go, oh, because I
feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Guilty.
I got to.
I'm going to give you the wholestory about why I couldn't do
it.
Yes, because I feel guilty,because I feel guilty sometimes.
Yes, yeah, I'm going to giveyou the whole story about why I
couldn't do it.
Yes, because I feel guilty,because I feel guilty sometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yes, yeah, I had this conversation with my children a
couple of years ago.
I said going forward, when Itell you no, it's just no.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's just a no, like, I'm not going to explain it.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I don't owe you an explanation.
I do not.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So say no without it and say no.
Normalize saying no and notexplaining yourself, right?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Because when you look at guilt, when you look at
guilt vibrationally, it's verylow.
To feel guilty about somethingis saying you're not exercising
your power.
Yeah, low vibration, exactlywhy would you feel guilty about
doing something good for you?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So if I tell, you no, it's not a bad thing, it's just
good for me.
You just have to adjust, yeah,and I get to do more of what I
want to do.
Right, when I say no, it allowsme.
Listen, this is the reframe weall need, because it is like
Therese, I know you know this,but like I and even the
especially the women I coachsaying no is a struggle.
Like we've seen the books,we've seen the articles, we all
(18:51):
know that no is a full sentenceand yet we still can't say it.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
We still can't do it.
I was at an event and I and Idid an exercise and I told the
women in the room turn to thewoman to your right and just say
no.
It was women that came up to meafter the event and said I just
had a problem even saying no toa stranger.
Wow, I said see, this is whythis exercise is so powerful If
(19:20):
you can't say no to a stranger,to a stranger, yeah, she said.
One lady told me I just couldnot do it.
I don't even know you and Ican't say no, wow, I can't say
that to people that I do notknow.
I'm going to have a hard timegauging, helping people gauge
their expectations when it comesto me the people that I know.
(19:42):
So it's not about being rightand wrong.
It's about assisting peoplewith gauging their expectations
when it come to you.
Yeah, that's really what it isAssisting them with gauging
their expectations they shouldknow.
Well, I'm not going to askPortia this because I already
know she's probably going to.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
That is deep right as opposed to.
I'm gonna ask portia because Iknow at least she'll say when
everybody else tells me no, Iknow she's never gonna say no to
me exactly and that that was.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It was a turning point for me to
transformationally, financially,having to adjust to people
doing whatever they wanted to dowith their finances and being
calling you saying can youassist me?
I had to say no, I'm okay withyou not having what you need,
because you made a choice to dowhat you wanted to do with your
(20:40):
finances.
And now you want to come to me,but for so many years, portia,
I did not know how to do that.
I would just say, okay, I'llhelp you, I'll do it, I'll help
you.
I had to realize you know whatthat is is.
It is spiritual, emotional andfinancial abuse and people have
a hard time accepting it.
You are being abused when youcannot say no to people and
(21:05):
they're constantly asking you todo things that are not making
you happy.
They are emotionally abusingyou and whether or not you want
to accept that or not, we cantalk about that in another
segment.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
No, I mean, I think again like you're dropping some
gems here because I think thatwe think of sort of spiritual.
Because I think that we thinkof sort of spiritual, emotional,
we think of abuse as being thephysical right, like we all
understand what that means.
I think we are starting tounderstand what emotional and
(21:38):
financial abuse look like.
But I bet there's a lot ofwomen walking around who if you
laid it out for them, they wouldbe like Ooh dang, like that's,
like that's me, I think.
I don't think we're as educatedon that at all as women.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
And I think it's really tough for us as women to
look at it, because, as mothersas you know, people that guide
homes we're always providing, weare always nurturing.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Always, I always joke , I'm the COO of everything.
Like, it's like, you know, like, and it's, it's really true,
right.
Like.
Oftentimes, when you take momout the picture, the house, like
the house falls apart.
There's a reason why thebeehive collapses when the queen
isn't there.
The queen keeps the beehivefunctional when a hive collapses
(22:31):
oftentimes.
There's a lot of reasons whyhives collapse, but one of the
reasons is when the queen ifsomething happens to the queen
and I think the equivalent islike mom, right, when the family
can collapse when mom isn'tthere.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And that's the case for us, even in corporate.
I mean, you're, you're, you'rerunning these, these, uh, you're
in directors, you're executiveand executives in these major
positions, you're keeping thehigh flowing, you know and and
behind the scenes, not gettingany of the credit, but making
everything run everything, everycredit, but making everything
(23:06):
run.
You're making everything run andyou have to stop to say, you
know, are these people that I'mdoing this with?
And let's go back to family,because this is the thing.
Yes, Especially with family,whether it's sister, brother,
mother, dad, it doesn't matterare they taking me for granted?
You know?
(23:26):
Am I just saying yes to them to, like you say earlier, to
prevent conflict.
I don't really want to arguewith my sister.
So, okay, yeah, you know, Idon't really, even though I
don't really here just take themoney, or here just I'll go do
it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I'll do it myself.
Listen, that is yeah, I'll doit myself.
Let me, if there's one thing Ihave worked hard to eliminate
out of my own, like lexicon,it's I will do it myself.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I will like I will slap myself on the face if I
feel myself getting ready to saythat no exactly, exactly, and
because what you're, what you'reteaching people is if I don't
get it right, of course she'lldo it sooner.
She'll do it sooner or later,right?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Teaching people how to like to your point.
So this point that I love thatyou've made is you teach people
how to treat you, and so that'skind of what I think.
What I find a little scaryabout that is it's the
accountability of like I'mresponsible for how, how people
(24:26):
like I don't know how I feelabout that, sharice, because you
know, like it makes me feelsome kind of way to think I'm
treating, I'm teaching peoplehow to treat me, and yet also it
feels like I have more controlover it than I think I do.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Exactly, and I know, when you look at it like that,
you want to say no, because theydo this, and that no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Exactly.
I'm trying to tell you all thethings that they do that I don't
like, and it's why it's theirfault.
That's exactly where I wasabout to go is.
Let me tell you why it's theirfault and why they are trash
people, why they're trash humansand why I'm victimized by that.
But I'm hearing you saysomething different.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
No, no, no.
First of all, you're not avictim, you're a survivor.
So don't allow anyone tovictimize you.
It doesn't matter who it is.
So the first step is to acceptand acknowledge that this
behavior is continuing.
Because I am allowing it?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Let me tell you a lot of people I know don't like to
hear that, but it's very true,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it is.
I'm allowing it because peopleare only going to do what you
allow them to do.
They're not a tree and you'renot a tree.
I tell this to my children allthe time.
You're not a tree, you're notplanted.
You can get up and move.
You can make a differentdecision in a split second.
You can make a differentdecision.
And if you're going a hundredmiles down the road that's why
(25:44):
they have brakes on cars youjust hit the brakes, put the car
in reverse, turn around and goin a different direction.
And you should have the power,have the strength, to tell
someone.
You know what.
I did do this for you last week, but I was thinking about for
why I don't want to do it today.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I've just aligned my values.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I've identified my values and I've realized that
happiness is important to me,freedom is important to me,
integrity is important to me,and if I'm not being in
integrity with myself, sorrysister, I can't be in integrity
with you.
And with that being the case,no, you can't.
No, I can't do this for you.
(26:29):
It's a hard no.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
It's a no for me.
That is so powerful, and so Iguess the thing that I'm also
really struck by Charisse isthere's a deeply spiritual
component.
Everything you're saying isvery pragmatic, spiritual
component.
Everything you're saying isvery pragmatic, right, it makes
a ton of sense.
But also you balance thepractical and the spiritual, and
(26:53):
I'm just curious how you bringthose two worlds.
How did you learn to bringthose two worlds together?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
worlds together, and how can we do that for ourselves
as well?
Okay, so for me it was just atransformation of understanding
what I am, not who I am.
So when I came to theunderstanding that I am a spirit
having a human experience notthe other way around I'm not
trying to figure out how good Iam, I'm not trying to figure out
(27:32):
my worth anymore so therealization came to me that if
you have the ocean and you goout and you scoop a piece of the
, put the ocean in a cup, youjust have the ocean in a smaller
container.
You're still the ocean, you'restill the ocean.
So if I am, all that spirit is,I am all of the goodness.
(27:54):
I'm already great.
Everything that I have isalready in me, I already possess
these things.
So I don't need someone outsideof me giving me some good
checklist for an approval to bethese things.
So when I came to that, Iunderstood that I'm not my
labels, I'm not my titles, I'mnot the certifications that I've
(28:18):
gotten along the way.
I'm so much bigger than that.
And so when I came to thatrealization, I understand well,
it's okay to walk my ownauthentic journey.
Then, yeah, it's okay for me tosay to Portia oh, that works
for you but not for me.
It's okay that if you do that,but I don't have to do that to
be happy, I don't have to dothat to be whole, I don't have
(28:40):
to do that to be fulfilled, thatto be fulfilled.
You know, I'm the type ofperson where if I get a good
book and I have some good musicin the background, on low, I'm
good.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't have to go out every weekend and do all
these things.
You don't need to be in thestreets.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I think that came from age too.
I'm about to tell about age.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Listen, listen.
You better talk about it,because I tell people I had that
moment in life and I, like, Iwas in the streets at some point
, you know, years back.
And for those of you who knowme, don't don't blow up my DMS
about this.
I don't need to be in thestreets anymore, like that's
just not my thing, you know.
But you know, god bless it tothose of you who are still in
the streets have fun, have allthe fun, have all the fun and
(29:26):
look cute doing it.
And look cute doing it.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
How I mixed the spiritual with the practical is
having and I hope this is not afit, so what I'm about to say
but having just common sense,the common sense of knowing that
it is okay to be you and youare where you are and that is
(29:51):
enough.
And that is enough.
And I'm not talking aboutstopping your growth process,
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about being able tolook at yourself in the mirror
and and I have a two-minutemirror technique that I like to
get people to do just stare atyourself for two minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Most people can't do it most oh gosh, this is like
we're not doing tiktoks, we'renot, we're not doing reels,
right?
This is not like you're doingan instagram reel kind of mirror
thing is what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
The mirror thing I'm talking about is standing in
that mirror and look at yourselfand say positive things to
yourself Reinforce you,strengthen you For two minutes,
set a timer.
You would be surprised peoplewho come back and say, dr Moses,
I can't do it.
I only last 10 minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I was going to say I bet you a lot of.
I know many therapists do thisexercise.
I can imagine some people can'tdo it, can they?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
No, no, I've had someone that called me and said
I only made it to 20 seconds.
I didn't have things to say tomyself.
I didn't even know how tocontinue to look at myself in
the mirror, and it's really deep.
Myself in the mirror, and it'sreally deep.
It can be a total awakening torealize, well, what is going on
(31:11):
with me.
When I see the goodness ineveryone else, yeah, when I see
myself, I see myself.
Am I really seeing the reality?
Am I really seeing reality?
So one of the spiritual andpractical things that I like to
do is how are you really trulysaying this?
So mixing those two together isunderstanding.
Oh so I'm just having a humanexperience.
(31:31):
I'm so much bigger than thesethings that I am experiencing.
It's not the other way around,and when you come to that, you
realize that things are alwaysworking out for you.
But things are always workingout for you even when you don't
see it.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I believe this.
I believe this.
I believe that things alwayswork out for me.
Everything's always working outto its greatest good, greatest
and highest good.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I believe this.
I believe that to the core ofmy being, that even when I
cannot see it, I'm always at theright place at the right time
to meet the right person toshift the trajectory of my life.
And that's what I say all thetime your shift is coming.
It doesn't matter where you areright now.
Your shift is coming.
(32:17):
If you genuinely believe that.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Amen.
So I think I'm struck by acouple of things.
One is how much unlearning hasto happen for us to get to that
point right you talked about.
Like you know, I'm fromCalifornia.
I grew up sort of I would say Iwas more like a holiday
churchgoer.
I didn't go to church on asuper regular basis, even though
(32:40):
my parents belonged to a church.
I moved to the South where,like religion is everything,
people want to know what churchyou go to.
They're inviting you to theirchurch, everything's built
around church.
I moved to the South where,like, religion is everything,
people want to know what churchyou go to.
They're inviting you to theirchurch, everything's built
around church.
But I felt, always felt, reject.
I always rejected that.
What I, what I felt was thedogmatism and the
prescriptiveness of traditionalorganized religion and but
(33:00):
having many friends, includingmy husband, who grew up at
Pentecostalal right, grew upPentecostal, it's just, it's
very and so you know, listen,this is not a knock on anyone's
chosen religion, but it reallyis about the fact that, like
when we grow up in certaintraditions they imprint on us
very deeply and if you move awayfrom that, there's a lot to
(33:22):
unlearn, especially if that, ifwhat you've learned is harmful
to you, right?
Not all religion is harmful,but there's some aspects that
are not the best for us, and soI'm struck by how much you have
to unlearn in this process.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
You have to unlearn a lot, because you know, being
from the South, it's always beena like you say, a dogmatic
thing that you're unworthy.
You're just unworthy, no matterwhat you do.
You're just unworthy.
You're at the low end of thetotem pole and you're always
striving to prove yourself.
(33:59):
So you have to unlearn that ifyou're truly all that God is and
this is what this is also alsoindicatable, as they say that we
are one then I have to unlearnall of the things that I've been
taught about how bad of a humanI am.
You have to start there, youknow, and so, starting there, it
(34:24):
can be very difficult.
You'll find yourselfvacillating between the two.
You know a lot.
You're like I think I can dothis, I think I'm working yeah,
one moment, then another moment,oh, I'm not working.
And so it's sort of like ridinga bike yeah, you get on and you
fall off, and then after awhile, you kind of get it when.
Okay, I've fallen off this bikequite a few times.
(34:46):
I can ride it now.
I'm going to be okay.
I'm going to be okay.
It's nothing that you bring tome that's going to change my
mind about the way I see myself.
You know, it takes time, though.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
And what I particularly resonate with is
the spiritual being having ahuman experience.
I think that is a reallypowerful reframe and I think the
other reframe that you've giventhat I think is powerful is
that everything works out forits highest good, not that it
works out according to what wasin our project management plan
(35:21):
or on our planner, right?
Let's just be just be clear,like we all, you know, we talked
about like you want to make Godlaugh, talk about your plans
but that those things work out.
You know the way they need toand you know, in the green room,
you and I were talking aboutjust how really chaotic and
uncertain things feel and Idon't know if you're.
(35:42):
You've got a number ofdifferent businesses.
You've been very successful asan entrepreneur and CEO and a
business owner and we talkedabout the fact that, like you
know, I know for me, like someof my business some of my
business, not a lot of it, butsome of it has shifted because
the political environment haschanged.
Right, I'm a speaker and therewas actually a conference I was
(36:04):
going to go, I was going to beone of the keynotes and that the
person who was putting on thisconference they'd been putting
this conference on for over adecade, lost all their corporate
funding like literallyovernight, and they had to send
out a note telling everyone hey,listen, this is not happening
anymore because we don't havethe funding, but we're going to
(36:26):
regroup.
And I just thought, wow, thisis really happening.
And so one I'm curious, asyou're talking in your own
business, what are you seeing?
But also, how are you helpingyour clients sort of make sense
of something that's really hardto make sense of?
Let's just be clear it don'tmake no sense.
(36:48):
What's happening?
Let's just say it don't make nodamn sense.
And yet, if we ground ourselvesin reality, it is happening and
so we have to cope.
We can't just shut it outcompletely, but we also can't
become a victim to the constantonslaught of negativity.
So how are you dealing withthat for yourself and what are
(37:10):
you saying to your clients aswell?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Okay, so let's address one of my businesses
disaster recovery Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
And talk about what that means, what disaster
recovery means to.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Disaster recovery is we assist.
Assist uh states, cities,municipalities recover and
rebuild that infrastructure outokay, so this would be a
government contract, essentiallyright.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Or or like a state or some kind of state contract,
right state government stategovernment contract.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Okay, the current climate, what is going on?
right, my car, my car andthey're like oh my God, are we
going to lose our funding?
All of this is going on rightnow, and what I've been saying
to individuals or women who areimpacted by this, or just my
clients, is going back to whatwe said earlier.
(37:59):
We're going to activate thepower of no, but in a different
way.
We're going to be veryintentional and very selfish
right now, and what I say tothem is in the face of all of
this, it has nothing to do withyou, do not look at all of this
as something to fear.
Change is inevitable.
(38:22):
It's the only thing that'sconstant in the world, and what
we have to do is regroup.
Look at this from is this apersonal attack on me, or it's
just change?
Is this contrast that's comingbefore Contrast?
Yeah, like, is it contrastcoming before something great?
So, where you have some peoplewho are saying, oh my God,
(38:44):
they're changing this, they'reruining my life, I have a Zoom
I'm going to be on in a coupleof days that says, oh no, we're
going to look at this as achange and how are we going to
shift our trajectory and stillwin in this climate?
So it's all about tell thepeople how are you looking at
what's going on?
Are you looking at this is adeliberately a deliberate attack
(39:05):
against me, or are you lookingat what's going on?
Are you looking at this as adeliberate attack against me?
Or are you looking at, oh, it'sjust change.
I've gone through so much in mylife.
I know how to shift with change, so it's all about perspective,
and so anything that we'redealing with right now I say
this to anyone do not look at itfrom a standpoint of fear.
Nothing is greater than you.
(39:26):
This is going to pass.
Some of these things that we'redealing with, we'll look back
at it and laugh, and some thingswe absolutely will not laugh
about.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, I'm not laughing now.
We're not laughing now, but Ido.
Well, actually, some of it islaughable, but not in a good way
.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, I was telling someone the other night.
I said for the first time Iactually get up and I look for
what is my laugh of the day.
With this climate, like what ismy laugh of the day and not
really don't take things tooserious.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Don't take it too seriously, don't take it too
personally.
I resonate with that and youknow it's like.
On the one hand, I thinkthere's a a like.
You know, for the first monthor so I was just like I can't
deal, let me just turn it alloff.
Then I went the oppositedirection where I was like glued
to the news and that wasn'thealthy either, because I found
myself, like I call it, like myreptilian brain, my monkey mind
(40:20):
was like, really, you know, youget dysregulated by just the
onslaught of bad news, and thenit, you know you get
dysregulated by just theonslaught of bad news, and then
it, you know.
But I agree I resonate so muchwith like it is change, change
is always happening.
It is not all good.
I also think that I was talkingto a client of mine and they're,
(40:40):
you know, it's a public policyinstitute and they deal with
racial and economic justice.
And one of the things that I'mstruck by is like when you know
your history right, you knowyour history, we know that
really.
Like not without being falselypositive, right, like toxically
positive incredible thingshappen in chaos.
(41:03):
Things happen in chaos and itis those of us who choose to
lead in and through chaos and tomeet, help, meet, guide people
through it and meet them on theother side of it.
And so that's the frameworkI've chosen to be in, as opposed
to like and I definitely had mywoe is me.
Oh my God, what is happening?
(41:25):
Let me not be like I was allzen about it, but when I thought
about it and I thought aboutjust you know, because I read a
lot and I understand, you knowhistory somewhat it's like we
have had incredible thingshappen, especially as Black
people, but you know, I wouldsay you know many marginalized
groups as well Like we can doamazing things in adversity if
(41:49):
we can put it in perspective.
And also, what I love, whatyou're saying also, will, is
hold the center of who are you?
What do I believe?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
What are my values?
That, to me, is really powerfulanchor in this time where just
it just feels like crazy time.
I don't know, maybe, maybe I'mjust, maybe I'm talking crazy
(42:11):
right now.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
No, no, no, you're not, because you have to
understand that.
It's deliberate.
If you have a bunch of dartsstalled at you, you have to
focus on what am I doing rightnow?
Yeah this is not the first timethat my life has been torn to
(42:34):
hell.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
You know what?
This is true, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
This is true, and when you look at it and say I've
dealt with bigger things thanthis.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
When you look at it, as you're a small potato
compared to my power.
I'm not going to allow yourdistractions to get me off
course.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
To knock me.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
off course, I'm going to anchor myself in my truth
and things are still going towork out for me.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
This is the message right here.
This is the message.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I'm going to anchor myself in my truth.
I think about a big ship with abig old anchor right now.
That's what we need to do.
We need to anchor ourselves inour truths and do not be moved
and do not be moved.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I get chills thinking about that because I think what
if we all, collectively, likein our community, believed that
right?
Collectively, like in ourcommunity, believed that right?
You know, it's all theeverything is flipping around us
, but we're like, we hold steady, we hold firm, and that to me,
is just a and with the beliefand I think this maybe gets at.
(43:46):
Some of you talk a lot aboutmanifestation too and your
writings and the belief that itwill work out.
Is that part of themanifestation Like how you know?
Again, that's one of thosewords, by the way.
I believe deeply inmanifestation.
I have seen it work for me.
You can't see my office, but Ihave a vision board.
I do, and I do the old schoolvision board Like I don't do the
(44:09):
digital one.
I have to build mine and I andCharisse, I've been doing one
for three, four years.
Everything I have put on thisvision board has come true.
If I hadn't experienced it formyself, I would tell you you are
speaking insanity, but Ibelieve it.
(44:31):
And so I wonder, as you, as youtalk about, believe everything
will work out for you.
How do those who maybe are kindof newer to the thoughts around
manifestation like how do youdo that?
Because it seems kind ofwoo-woo out there new age
nonsense, but it is real, it'sreal.
(44:52):
So how do we like for those whoare just kind of tuning in and
thinking like, oh, I'm kind ofinterested, I've heard the word,
but I don't really?
You know, it's not an Instagrampost, it's real.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
What it means for me is really understanding what
abundance really is.
I love that word, yeah, yeah,abundance is more.
When you think aboutmanifestations, you think about
them as a whole, not just a car,a house, money and all of that.
(45:25):
You know what I'm saying.
But when you hear that word,you hear manifestation.
That's the first thing peoplethink about.
Oh, you're talking about megetting a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Right, I right this house.
Yeah, it's a thing, a materialthing yeah, right, no.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
When I'm talking about manifest manifestations
and abundance, I'm talking aboutunderstanding I love.
You've used this word a fewtimes, yeah I'm talking about
understanding, and if you likethe word understanding, you can
use that too I love interest.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Now, I love it, let's , let's.
I want to go with your word.
I prefer it.
I feel like it's a different.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
It has a different vibration to it so if you, if
you, when I talk about it, I'mtalking about understanding of
the fact that nothing that Idesire is truly outside of me.
So when I'm talking to someonethat has never heard this before
and they say what are youtalking about, about this
abundance and manifestationthing?
Do you truly believe that whatyou desire came from some part
(46:23):
of the sky?
It's not really real.
I can't have it.
No, because if someone else hasit, they are no more deserving
to.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
You gets back to the deservedness and worthiness,
Gets back to the deservingnessand worthiness right.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
You get next to the deservingness and worthiness,
and that's the time that we'rein right now.
The time that we're in rightnow is not to fight, it is to
build.
We're in a turn right now wherewe shouldn't be fighting.
We should really embraceabundance of what we really are
and build and collaborate withthose with that understanding to
(46:58):
manifest the things that wedesire you.
Fighting is just a distraction.
It's just a distraction Because, if you look at it from well,
this has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
This.
Just I can't even tell you, Ijust have these chills and there
are a few things I want to justkind of maybe zero in on.
So because you said something,a couple of things really
profoundly.
So one is like this abundancemindset which is like it's about
building, it's aboutcollaboration, finding your
people out there, finding yourchives out there, and building
(47:31):
because that's the forcemultiplier.
I also hear you saying it'sabout it's back to what we
talked about the very beginning,which is like believing you are
worthy, like you are alreadyworthy, you don't have to earn
it, and I think that is a verykind of rebellious, if you.
I'm going to say it's arebellious thought because we're
living in a time right now,where everyone's telling us
(47:53):
there's not enough of anything.
There's not, we have.
There's not enough of this, wegot to cut this, we got to pull
back that, we have to get rid ofthis.
We're going to we're.
These people are taking thingsaway, and so your message is
very rebellious in that it's thecomplete opposite of that which
is there's.
(48:13):
Not only is there plenty,there's more.
Like you deserve it.
You deserve it and, if you canbelieve it and you see it in
others, like it's available toyou, like that, to me, is
incredible.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I like that word that you choose, that word that you
chose rebellious.
It can be looked at as arebellious mind.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, it is because it's not status quo.
Right To your point earlier,it's like maybe I'm not going to
think like everybody else, I'mgoing to think like this is what
I believe, and that, to me, iskind of rebellious, in the best
sense of the word.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Well, I think that distractions are deliberate
because thoughts are things.
That's right.
If people can get you to startthinking on a certain track and
thinking a certain way, they getyou to crystallize realities
based on what they do for you.
But if you can say, but if youcan keep the mindset of
(49:15):
abundance, of I'm healthy, I'mwealthy, there's more than
enough in the world.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
There's more than enough.
I can get my share.
I can get.
Yeah, it's available to me.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I don't have to compete with anyone.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
There is no competition, there's more than
enough.
You can have your share, I canhave mine.
We can be doing the same things.
We both can get rich.
We don't have any competitionbecause there's more than enough
.
If you can practice thatmindset and maintain that
vibration, all of these things,you soon fall away and you
(49:51):
realize I was worried fornothing.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
That is deep.
That is deep.
How do people practice so?
How, like, what's a practicalthing that people can do to?
Is it journaling?
Is it, you know, dailyaffirmations?
Is it all of those things Likewhat's a really you know for
someone who's listening to thisgoing like, hey, I'm okay,
you've got my attention?
How do I practice that?
(50:16):
How do I start?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
So how do you start?
Let's go back to what we weretalking about, because I will
have people listen to this andsay, well, I've done those
affirmations, they don't work.
They don't work.
Well, they don't work becauseyou don't know what you are.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
No shortcuts, no shortcuts.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Right, there's no shortcuts for this.
You have to genuinely deal withhow you're seeing yourself to
activate this.
You can't use somebody else's.
Well, I'm just going to writethis down because Portia told me
to.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
No, that won't work.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Your belief starts with believing in yourself.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Right here, do the work first with yourself.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Do the work with yourself, and what you'll find
is doing that work.
You will find that you aregaining confidence.
You'll find that you know that.
You know that you know thatwhat you're saying is true.
Everything that everybody elsehas been telling you about
yourself is a big old fat lie.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I already know, I know.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
And when you know this, you you release thoughts
yeah that crystallize into thesethings and after a while,
portia, you'll just start sayingthis is funny, this is, this is
not even a, this is like amiracle, but things are
happening for you, yeah, yeah.
It's happening so fast thatyou're like wait a minute.
(51:36):
So I would just want toencourage everyone Do not be
distracted by all these things.
Yeah, stay focused on what youare.
Know that you're greater thanall these other things that are
being thrown at these darts thathave been thrown at you, and
really embrace abundance in allthat.
It is not just the materialthings, because I say to people
all the time what are you goingto do with a car when you're
(51:57):
mentally stressed and sick?
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
What good is the Bentley when you're mentally
stressed and sick?
You can't do anything.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Listen, when your blood pressure is up and you're
pre-diabetic and your hair'sfalling out and you gain 52
pounds like what does it matter?
Speaker 2 (52:17):
none of that matters.
So when we embrace theunderstanding that I'm, life is
happening to me, not the otherway around.
You're not creating anything.
It's already created.
Everything that you desire isalready done.
That's the reason why I saythings are already working out
for you.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, it's already in motion.
It's already in motion, it'salready in motion.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
The only thing you have to do is keep your
confidence, and that's whatdistractions do they have?
To throw you off your game.
It's true, isn't it?
I'm serious.
They throw you off your gameand then, the next thing you
know, you start believingsomething different and all
those things start manifestingin your life.
So there's the lack, thepoverty.
Now it's our phones, it's, it'severything.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
And so what I take that to, what I take that to
mean also, is, like, everythingwe allow into our heads whether
it's social media, whether it'sthe people around us, whether
it's television, whether it'sanything like you, we have you
got to be on guard about whatyou allow into your
consciousness, because, like allof that, you're right.
Like if you're fed a steadydiet of you, ain't shit, or
we're falling apart, or thiscountry's falling apart, or
(53:45):
these people are taking youropportunities.
Eventually, you start tobelieve that and we essentially
put that back.
And I do believe thoughtsbecome things.
I tell this to my kids all thetime.
If every day you told yourselfI'm stupid, guess what, guess
what happens.
If every day you tell yourselfI'm no good at math or I don't
do this very well, guess whathappens.
(54:06):
You make that true, and so whatyou're saying is so powerful,
Cherisse, in terms of just like,really think, like watching our
thoughts, and it's justincredible.
Okay, so this is.
I could literally talk to youfor two more hours and you know
(54:28):
you and I were talking aboutearlier.
I said, you know, because we,we this was on our original
recording date and I said, butyou know, something tells me
this is the right date and Iagain no accidents.
Right, there's no accidents.
Everything happens when itshould happen.
So this is the fun part,because we've been talking about
some really deep thoughts.
(54:48):
We've been having a deepconversation here.
So we always like to have alittle bit of fun with our
guests to wrap up with ourlightning round.
So my first question for thelightning round for you is what
is your superpower?
Speaker 2 (55:03):
So my superpower is invincibility.
Oh, I love it so quick.
I think we all should adaptthat, because invincibility is
about bending but not breaking.
It's about having a fortifiedor a fortress in your head about
what you are, who you are andwhere you're going.
(55:24):
And if you get knocked downseven times, you just get up,
dust yourself off, re-hit thereset button and go it again.
We go, let's go again.
We're not giving up because weknow we're going to get to that
goal.
So invincibility.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Because it's already.
It's already in order.
I love that.
I love that.
I think my last question foryou is what's a motto or phrase
that defines your personality ormindset?
Speaker 2 (55:57):
And maybe you've answered it, but like what I did
already, but I want to leave it.
I want to leave it witheveryone because I want you to
have the confidence in knowingthat things are always working
out for you, no matter whatyou're doing.
So my power phrase is I'malways in the right place at the
right time to meet the rightperson to shift the trajectory
(56:18):
of my life.
Someone I'm going to meet.
I don't care if it's in agrocery store, I don't care if
it's at some meeting or someevent.
I'm going to meet that personand we're going to collaborate
and we're going to take ourlives to the next level.
So that's my phrase right place, right time, right place, oh my
gosh.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Dr Charisse Mullins, you have been a gift today.
I'm so grateful to you.
I cannot wait for our listenersto hear this.
We are going to link to all ofher socials and the show notes
and to her website.
She's got some really greatresources on their website.
Please check them out.
And to her website.
She's got some really greatresources on her website.
(56:55):
Please check them out.
And, dr M, so lovely to haveyou here.
Thanks so much for the gift,the gift of your time, truly
today.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be here.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Thank you so much Thanks for listening to
Ungovernable Women.
Our producer and editor isMegan King.
Our social media manager isDestiny Eicher.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
You can follow and DM us onInstagram at ungovernablexwomen,
(57:30):
and TikTok at ungovernableXWomen.
See you next time.
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of
Ungovernable Women, formerly theManifesta Podcast, the
lifestyle and career podcast foraspiring women.
Our new name reflects ourmission to reach even more
listeners with stories of womenwho are breaking boundaries and
redefining success.
I have a favor to ask you, ifyou haven't done so already,
please rate and subscribe to thepod.
(00:21):
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, it boosts our rankings
and helps more people discoverus.
Thanks for tuning in.
Welcome to Season 5 ofUngovernable Women, the career
and lifestyle podcast foraspiring women ready to break
barriers.
I'm Portia Mouw and I'mthrilled to be back.
We've got a new name, but ourmission remains stronger than
(00:43):
ever helping women find theirpurpose, lead high-impact
careers and meaningful lives.
This season, we'll bring youthe stories of women who forged
their own paths to success.
It's our time to shine.
Let's dive in.
We are truly living in uniquetimes right now and I cannot
(01:04):
imagine a more timely moment tobe speaking with our next guest.
My guest today is Dr CharisseMullins, known as Dr M, and she
is a transformational life coach, holistic counselor and
empowerment and breakthroughstrategist, and we're going to
get into what all of that meansin our conversation and
empowerment and breakthroughstrategists, and we're going to
(01:25):
get into what all of that meansin our conversation.
She is the founder of Count Emthree successful companies, and
I mean.
Her story is so incredible, andthrough these ventures she's
delivered actionable strategiesthat help her clients unlock new
levels of access, leadershipand financial freedom, and so we
will also link to her websitein the show notes so you can
(01:48):
connect with her.
She's got some amazing booksand products, and you'll get a
chance to invite you to take alook at those.
Her latest book is called theInvincibility Code.
Love that name how to Shift theTrajectory of your Life and
Crystallize a New Reality.
She's helped countless peopleget out of their own way and
(02:09):
align with their true purpose.
She's been featured in majormedia outlets, including Forbes
magazine, and broadcast outletsincluding CBS, abc and NBC.
Welcome, dr M.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hello, hello.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited about being herewith you today.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I am so happy to have you here.
You know, in the green room wewere just talking a little bit
about just the very unique timesthat we're living in, both
challenging the challenges andopportunities.
But before we dive into all ofthat, I wanted to start with
talking to you abouttransformation and empowerment.
I think those words are used alot these days, but you have
(02:51):
lived it, you understand it at aDNA level.
So what was the turning pointin your own life that led you
down this path of helping othersevolve and step into their
power?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
One thing I want to say is when you're a giver,
you're always giving to others.
What happens when the giverneeds someone to give to them?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
What happens when you're always empowering others,
you're always giving to othersand there's no one there to give
to you.
So that was the turning pointfor me.
I went through a point in mylife where I lost everything.
I was going through divorce.
I lost everything.
I went from not worrying aboutthe price tags on things to
literally sleeping on the floorwith my children trying to
(03:39):
figure out you know, basicallytrying to figure out what I was
going to do with my life.
So at that point I realizedthat giving is a good thing, but
you have to give to yourselffirst.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yes, and I think, as women, we forget that right,
especially as women and as Blackwomen, like we're used to doing
for others, but women, but allwomen, and as Black women, we do
it a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, we do it a lot, we also.
We do that because we're taughtthat when you give, you're
going to get more in return.
But what you have to learn isyou have to learn the wisdom in
giving, and so that was myturning point.
I'd given away everything thatI had, I'd given every ounce of
(04:22):
my energy, and when I neededsomeone to give to me, there I
was looking to the left and theright and there was no one there
, oh my God.
And so that was my turningpoint.
My turning point wasunderstanding that it's okay to
give, but you teach peoplearound you how to treat you.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Say that again.
We're about to have a sermon.
Everyone here, in case youhaven't noticed, we're about to
like.
It's going to be a sermon thatwe're jumping into here.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You teach people how to treat you.
So if you teach them, you comesecond.
You're going to always comesecond and that's going to be
the norm that you come second.
So my the point where mytransformation came was rock
bottom.
How do I give to myself the waythat I've given to others?
And that was a lesson in itself.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That is so powerful and I'm curious, like so how did
you, what did you do?
Like, how did you, like, whatdid giving to yourself look like
to start?
Because, honestly, I think somepeople again some women
especially don't really know.
It's not just going to get amanicure.
That we're talking about, right, we're not talking about a spa
(05:33):
day.
That's not what you're talkingabout, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, when I'm talking about giving to yourself, I'm
talking about the understandingof what you really are and your
uniqueness.
What I mean is, when I talkabout this, I'm talking about
what do you really like?
That's a question that I wasn'table to answer At first.
I know it sounds crazy, but Icould not.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
It doesn't sound crazy.
I'm sitting here thinking aboutthat.
What do you really like?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
for example, I could not think like do I?
What is my favorite color?
Do I really like this tv show?
Do I really like eating here?
Or did I?
Or did someone else tell methat this is what you should
like?
Do I really want to go and dothis for others?
Or have I been wearing thiscloak of guilt?
(06:24):
I should do this because and sowhat I had to come to the
conclusion, you know, just cometo the realization of some of
the things I was doing, portia,I just didn't like it.
Certain people I was hangingwith and doing things for, I
really didn't like them.
And that's what I mean when Isay who are you.
(06:46):
Your transformation comes whenyou can look yourself in the
mirror and say you have beenbeing fake, you haven't been
being real with yourself.
And if you can't do this withyourself, there's no way you can
be authentic with other people.
There's no way you can beauthentic with other people.
And it's nothing wrong withlooking in the mirror saying I
(07:09):
don't know who I am.
I really do not know who I am.
I don't know where to go from.
Here.
I got an idea of the thingsthat I like.
I think I know why I'm here butI really don't know, and I
think that transformation isabout coming to that
(07:30):
understanding and it being okay,not needing the approval of
someone else to tell you.
You know, if you do this, Ithink you'll be okay.
No, but what about those timeswhen you come in and you're
going against the grain?
Especially, as you know as aBlack woman, you go against the
grain a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
We do Like.
Whether we're trying to or not,oftentimes it's just what
happens.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, we go against the grain because we're told
that this should be this way andwe're looking at well, a little
bit of innovation could be here.
This could be a littledifferent, that could be a
little different.
But when you're taught thatyou're better when you're quiet,
You're better when you don't,you know you don't come with all
this stuff, all of these ideas.
Just be quiet.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Just fit in, Exactly so.
I think transformation andempowerment is about
understanding that maybe I wassent not to fit in.
Maybe I'm here to stand out.
Maybe I'm here to help dropsomething in somebody's mind
that they didn't think aboutbefore.
(08:36):
And be okay with that.
And just be okay with hey,maybe I am.
Maybe it is 100 people on thisjourney over here, but I'm just
supposed to be just one personwalking this journey.
Is that okay with you?
Ask yourself stuff like that.
Am I okay with being told I'mno longer going to be invited to
the in-crowd parties?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Maybe not.
What I'm struck by is that inthat self-discovery, you shed a
lot of old things, right, youshed old beliefs.
You shed, maybe, people youthought were your friends.
Maybe you even shed familymembers who don't accept the
(09:21):
person you are becoming.
The more you become yourself,the more you may have to shed
some people and things along theway.
Did you experience that, and isthat something that's common
with the clients that you workwith?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Oh my God.
Of course I experienced itbecause I'm from North Carolina,
I'm from the Bible Belt, sowhen I started experiencing that
maybe I'm more spiritual thanreligious, maybe I'm more I want
to seek you know what God is,rather than being told how or
(10:01):
what God is to me.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That is not very Southern at all, Charisse.
I say this as a Californianalso living here in the South.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is not very Southern at all, it is not very
Southern and so you findyourself losing a lot of friends
.
You find yourself in a positionwhere people feel like, hey,
you're going off a beaten path.
I even had someone to tell meoh my God, are you possessed?
Is everything okay with you?
Yeah, it just got reallyserious and I said you know what
(10:32):
?
I think I need to step outsideof this to find out who I really
am, because I've been in thisrealm since I was five years old
, being preached to, beingtalked to about how I should act
, who I should hang with, what Ishould dress, what I should say
(10:52):
and all of that.
And when I sat back and thoughtabout it, I said it could be
and I know this may be a harshword it could be a little
cultish for someone to tell youwhat you should be thinking, how
you should be thinking it,giving you check boxes of
approvals of if you're goodenough.
So what it instilled in me isjust a spirit of unworthiness.
(11:15):
For so many years I was just.
I felt unworthy of the goodnessthat life had to offer me.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That like hits me in my chest so hard to say that I
think that would resonate withso many listeners too.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You grow up with this and you carry this weight on
your shoulder that I'm reallynot worthy and, no matter what I
do, it's never going to be goodenough, and you don't realize
how that impacts everything youdo.
So if you're looking forsuccess in something and deep
down you really don't believeyou're worthy of it, you're not
(11:51):
going to manifest it, no matterhow hard you try.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And how could you right, and I can imagine too
this like feeling ofunworthiness then translates
into like we're always trying toplease other people, we're
trying to make ourselves likable, lovable, worthy of it's.
So it's external right, andwhat I'm hearing you say is we
start by getting to knowourselves, understanding who we
(12:20):
are, and sometimes it's asfundamental as, like what do I
like?
Do I really like all thesethings I've been doing?
Do I really like to do them, oris it something that I've been
told or I've just gone alongbecause that was the easy thing
to do?
And so what I'm hearing you sayis you have to really
fundamentally challenge some ofyour core beliefs.
Sometimes, if you don't reallyunderstand, if you can't answer
the question who am I Like?
(12:42):
What do I like?
You got to start with thebasics first.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, you start with a basis of aligning your values.
In my book, the InvincibilityCode, I talk about my top 12
values.
Now, they don't have to be inthe same order as mine, but you
definitely have to identify yourcore values so that you can
adjust your actions.
If you don't know your corevalues, you're going to live by
(13:09):
someone else's Amen to that.
You're going to live by someoneelse's values, and so it's not
about is something wrong withthe Bentley or the Lexus?
Yeah, it's about identifying.
Why do I want the Bentley orthe Lexus?
Why does this resonate with memore than it resonates with you?
And that's the problem.
We have other people'spreferences because we don't
(13:32):
know what our values are, and sowhen I start aligning mine, I
realized that happiness was atop value of mine, integrity was
number two, freedom was numberthree.
I had been trapped so long Ididn't realize that I wasn't
happy because I didn't have asense of freedom in my life.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
You don't even know what freedom was.
You don't know what freedom isright.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
When you're being dick-tagged to every day of how
you should act.
Oh, that's deep, that's notfreedom.
And so when you look at freedomin everything, it should be a
freedom to think, a freedom tospeak, a freedom to act
according to your values.
And what is that?
(14:20):
And when you identify that itmakes everything in your life so
much easier.
I'm giving you an example, Justas an example, if you have
friends and they're alwaysasking you to do things right
and you think I'm obligated todo it just because I've been
knowing this person for a longtime, or they're my friends, if
you stop for a moment, you mayrealize that some of the things
(14:42):
that you've been doing forpeople you don't really like
doing it, we just do it becausewell, she's my friend and I'm
obligated.
No, you're not.
It's okay for you to say youknow what.
I've been thinking about it,sarah, and I don't think I like
doing it.
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Do it yourself.
Do it yourself, but that's bigright, like it's big to.
You know I can.
This resonates for me so deeplybecause I know so many women I
know I was in that camp too oflike somebody asked me to do
something and one.
I didn't want the confrontationof saying no, but then I would
(15:23):
say yes and I would feel kind ofresentful Charisse, of like I
would do it, but like my I callit my inner monologue.
My inner monologue was like whyam I doing this for this?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
mean Like I right, and so it's like well, that's
not healthy either.
If I'm not doing it with joy,if I'm not doing it with a sense
of openness, then why would Isay, why am I saying yes to
things that I really want to sayno to Right?
And that's the, and especiallywhat I'm hearing you say is like
but the way we can maybecircuit, we can short circuit
that as getting really clear onwhat we and I'm a huge believer
(15:56):
in core values as well becausethen all the incoming, it's
easier to sort out the incomingthat's coming at you, cause
you'd be like yes to this, no tothat.
It's easier to sort out theincoming that's coming at you
because you're being like yes tothis, no to that, whatever,
because you know where you stand.
But I know so many women whoare like, yeah, well, you know,
I just feel like I should do itbecause I've always done it.
And well, why, why?
(16:18):
Why are we saying yes to allthis?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
excuse my language shit that we don't want to do.
Exactly the stuff that youreally don't want to do, exactly
the stuff that that that youreally don't want to do.
And you sit there later saying,oh my god, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And then we're like trash talking, we're trash
talking it later now.
That's not aligned.
That's not aligned is it?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
let me listen I'm talking to myself too, by the
way, just so you know you know,I told someone the other day I
told, I told a lady, the otherwoman the other day I listen,
what do you think a person isdoing when they're asking you to
do something that you don'treally want to do?
And she said what do you mean?
I said they're exercising theirpower of selfish.
(16:58):
You haven't done it yet, so youwalk away resentful because you
haven't activated that power.
When you activate that power,you realize oh, it's so much
deliciousness and saying no tothings, it's so delicious, it's
like no, it is delicious.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I've never heard it described that way, but it is
very delicious.
There's deliciousness in sayingno and I'm going to this.
I'm going to remember this,this part, forever.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's delicious.
And when you realize that, oh,I did that with no explanation,
right See, sometimes, when wesay no, we go, oh, because I
feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Guilty.
I got to.
I'm going to give you the wholestory about why I couldn't do
it.
Yes, because I feel guilty,because I feel guilty sometimes.
Yes, yeah, I'm going to giveyou the whole story about why I
couldn't do it.
Yes, because I feel guilty,because I feel guilty sometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yes, yeah, I had this conversation with my children a
couple of years ago.
I said going forward, when Itell you no, it's just no.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's just a no, like, I'm not going to explain it.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I don't owe you an explanation.
I do not.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So say no without it and say no.
Normalize saying no and notexplaining yourself, right?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Because when you look at guilt, when you look at
guilt vibrationally, it's verylow.
To feel guilty about somethingis saying you're not exercising
your power.
Yeah, low vibration, exactlywhy would you feel guilty about
doing something good for you?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So if I tell, you no, it's not a bad thing, it's just
good for me.
You just have to adjust, yeah,and I get to do more of what I
want to do.
Right, when I say no, it allowsme.
Listen, this is the reframe weall need, because it is like
Therese, I know you know this,but like I and even the
especially the women I coachsaying no is a struggle.
Like we've seen the books,we've seen the articles, we all
(18:51):
know that no is a full sentenceand yet we still can't say it.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
We still can't do it.
I was at an event and I and Idid an exercise and I told the
women in the room turn to thewoman to your right and just say
no.
It was women that came up to meafter the event and said I just
had a problem even saying no toa stranger.
Wow, I said see, this is whythis exercise is so powerful If
(19:20):
you can't say no to a stranger,to a stranger, yeah, she said.
One lady told me I just couldnot do it.
I don't even know you and Ican't say no, wow, I can't say
that to people that I do notknow.
I'm going to have a hard timegauging, helping people gauge
their expectations when it comesto me the people that I know.
(19:42):
So it's not about being rightand wrong.
It's about assisting peoplewith gauging their expectations
when it come to you.
Yeah, that's really what it isAssisting them with gauging
their expectations they shouldknow.
Well, I'm not going to askPortia this because I already
know she's probably going to.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
That is deep right as opposed to.
I'm gonna ask portia because Iknow at least she'll say when
everybody else tells me no, Iknow she's never gonna say no to
me exactly and that that was.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It was a turning point for me to
transformationally, financially,having to adjust to people
doing whatever they wanted to dowith their finances and being
calling you saying can youassist me?
I had to say no, I'm okay withyou not having what you need,
because you made a choice to dowhat you wanted to do with your
(20:40):
finances.
And now you want to come to me,but for so many years, portia,
I did not know how to do that.
I would just say, okay, I'llhelp you, I'll do it, I'll help
you.
I had to realize you know whatthat is is.
It is spiritual, emotional andfinancial abuse and people have
a hard time accepting it.
You are being abused when youcannot say no to people and
(21:05):
they're constantly asking you todo things that are not making
you happy.
They are emotionally abusingyou and whether or not you want
to accept that or not, we cantalk about that in another
segment.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
No, I mean, I think again like you're dropping some
gems here because I think thatwe think of sort of spiritual.
Because I think that we thinkof sort of spiritual, emotional,
we think of abuse as being thephysical right, like we all
understand what that means.
I think we are starting tounderstand what emotional and
(21:38):
financial abuse look like.
But I bet there's a lot ofwomen walking around who if you
laid it out for them, they wouldbe like Ooh dang, like that's,
like that's me, I think.
I don't think we're as educatedon that at all as women.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
And I think it's really tough for us as women to
look at it, because, as mothersas you know, people that guide
homes we're always providing, weare always nurturing.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Always, I always joke , I'm the COO of everything.
Like, it's like, you know, like, and it's, it's really true,
right.
Like.
Oftentimes, when you take momout the picture, the house, like
the house falls apart.
There's a reason why thebeehive collapses when the queen
isn't there.
The queen keeps the beehivefunctional when a hive collapses
(22:31):
oftentimes.
There's a lot of reasons whyhives collapse, but one of the
reasons is when the queen ifsomething happens to the queen
and I think the equivalent islike mom, right, when the family
can collapse when mom isn'tthere.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And that's the case for us, even in corporate.
I mean, you're, you're, you'rerunning these, these, uh, you're
in directors, you're executiveand executives in these major
positions, you're keeping thehigh flowing, you know and and
behind the scenes, not gettingany of the credit, but making
everything run everything, everycredit, but making everything
(23:06):
run.
You're making everything run andyou have to stop to say, you
know, are these people that I'mdoing this with?
And let's go back to family,because this is the thing.
Yes, Especially with family,whether it's sister, brother,
mother, dad, it doesn't matterare they taking me for granted?
You know?
(23:26):
Am I just saying yes to them to, like you say earlier, to
prevent conflict.
I don't really want to arguewith my sister.
So, okay, yeah, you know, Idon't really, even though I
don't really here just take themoney, or here just I'll go do
it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I'll do it myself.
Listen, that is yeah, I'll doit myself.
Let me, if there's one thing Ihave worked hard to eliminate
out of my own, like lexicon,it's I will do it myself.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I will like I will slap myself on the face if I
feel myself getting ready to saythat no exactly, exactly, and
because what you're, what you'reteaching people is if I don't
get it right, of course she'lldo it sooner.
She'll do it sooner or later,right?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Teaching people how to like to your point.
So this point that I love thatyou've made is you teach people
how to treat you, and so that'skind of what I think.
What I find a little scaryabout that is it's the
accountability of like I'mresponsible for how, how people
(24:26):
like I don't know how I feelabout that, sharice, because you
know, like it makes me feelsome kind of way to think I'm
treating, I'm teaching peoplehow to treat me, and yet also it
feels like I have more controlover it than I think I do.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Exactly, and I know, when you look at it like that,
you want to say no, because theydo this, and that no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Exactly.
I'm trying to tell you all thethings that they do that I don't
like, and it's why it's theirfault.
That's exactly where I wasabout to go is.
Let me tell you why it's theirfault and why they are trash
people, why they're trash humansand why I'm victimized by that.
But I'm hearing you saysomething different.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
No, no, no.
First of all, you're not avictim, you're a survivor.
So don't allow anyone tovictimize you.
It doesn't matter who it is.
So the first step is to acceptand acknowledge that this
behavior is continuing.
Because I am allowing it?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Let me tell you a lot of people I know don't like to
hear that, but it's very true,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it is.
I'm allowing it because peopleare only going to do what you
allow them to do.
They're not a tree and you'renot a tree.
I tell this to my children allthe time.
You're not a tree, you're notplanted.
You can get up and move.
You can make a differentdecision in a split second.
You can make a differentdecision.
And if you're going a hundredmiles down the road that's why
(25:44):
they have brakes on cars youjust hit the brakes, put the car
in reverse, turn around and goin a different direction.
And you should have the power,have the strength, to tell
someone.
You know what.
I did do this for you last week, but I was thinking about for
why I don't want to do it today.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I've just aligned my values.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I've identified my values and I've realized that
happiness is important to me,freedom is important to me,
integrity is important to me,and if I'm not being in
integrity with myself, sorrysister, I can't be in integrity
with you.
And with that being the case,no, you can't.
No, I can't do this for you.
(26:29):
It's a hard no.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
It's a no for me.
That is so powerful, and so Iguess the thing that I'm also
really struck by Charisse isthere's a deeply spiritual
component.
Everything you're saying isvery pragmatic, spiritual
component.
Everything you're saying isvery pragmatic, right, it makes
a ton of sense.
But also you balance thepractical and the spiritual, and
(26:53):
I'm just curious how you bringthose two worlds.
How did you learn to bringthose two worlds together?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
worlds together, and how can we do that for ourselves
as well?
Okay, so for me it was just atransformation of understanding
what I am, not who I am.
So when I came to theunderstanding that I am a spirit
having a human experience notthe other way around I'm not
trying to figure out how good Iam, I'm not trying to figure out
(27:32):
my worth anymore so therealization came to me that if
you have the ocean and you goout and you scoop a piece of the
, put the ocean in a cup, youjust have the ocean in a smaller
container.
You're still the ocean, you'restill the ocean.
So if I am, all that spirit is,I am all of the goodness.
(27:54):
I'm already great.
Everything that I have isalready in me, I already possess
these things.
So I don't need someone outsideof me giving me some good
checklist for an approval to bethese things.
So when I came to that, Iunderstood that I'm not my
labels, I'm not my titles, I'mnot the certifications that I've
(28:18):
gotten along the way.
I'm so much bigger than that.
And so when I came to thatrealization, I understand well,
it's okay to walk my ownauthentic journey.
Then, yeah, it's okay for me tosay to Portia oh, that works
for you but not for me.
It's okay that if you do that,but I don't have to do that to
be happy, I don't have to dothat to be whole, I don't have
(28:40):
to do that to be fulfilled, thatto be fulfilled.
You know, I'm the type ofperson where if I get a good
book and I have some good musicin the background, on low, I'm
good.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't have to go out every weekend and do all
these things.
You don't need to be in thestreets.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I think that came from age too.
I'm about to tell about age.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Listen, listen.
You better talk about it,because I tell people I had that
moment in life and I, like, Iwas in the streets at some point
, you know, years back.
And for those of you who knowme, don't don't blow up my DMS
about this.
I don't need to be in thestreets anymore, like that's
just not my thing, you know.
But you know, god bless it tothose of you who are still in
the streets have fun, have allthe fun, have all the fun and
(29:26):
look cute doing it.
And look cute doing it.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
How I mixed the spiritual with the practical is
having and I hope this is not afit, so what I'm about to say
but having just common sense,the common sense of knowing that
it is okay to be you and youare where you are and that is
(29:51):
enough.
And that is enough.
And I'm not talking aboutstopping your growth process,
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about being able tolook at yourself in the mirror
and and I have a two-minutemirror technique that I like to
get people to do just stare atyourself for two minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Most people can't do it most oh gosh, this is like
we're not doing tiktoks, we'renot, we're not doing reels,
right?
This is not like you're doingan instagram reel kind of mirror
thing is what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
The mirror thing I'm talking about is standing in
that mirror and look at yourselfand say positive things to
yourself Reinforce you,strengthen you For two minutes,
set a timer.
You would be surprised peoplewho come back and say, dr Moses,
I can't do it.
I only last 10 minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I was going to say I bet you a lot of.
I know many therapists do thisexercise.
I can imagine some people can'tdo it, can they?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
No, no, I've had someone that called me and said
I only made it to 20 seconds.
I didn't have things to say tomyself.
I didn't even know how tocontinue to look at myself in
the mirror, and it's really deep.
Myself in the mirror, and it'sreally deep.
It can be a total awakening torealize, well, what is going on
(31:11):
with me.
When I see the goodness ineveryone else, yeah, when I see
myself, I see myself.
Am I really seeing the reality?
Am I really seeing reality?
So one of the spiritual andpractical things that I like to
do is how are you really trulysaying this?
So mixing those two together isunderstanding.
Oh so I'm just having a humanexperience.
(31:31):
I'm so much bigger than thesethings that I am experiencing.
It's not the other way around,and when you come to that, you
realize that things are alwaysworking out for you.
But things are always workingout for you even when you don't
see it.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I believe this.
I believe this.
I believe that things alwayswork out for me.
Everything's always working outto its greatest good, greatest
and highest good.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I believe this.
I believe that to the core ofmy being, that even when I
cannot see it, I'm always at theright place at the right time
to meet the right person toshift the trajectory of my life.
And that's what I say all thetime your shift is coming.
It doesn't matter where you areright now.
Your shift is coming.
(32:17):
If you genuinely believe that.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Amen.
So I think I'm struck by acouple of things.
One is how much unlearning hasto happen for us to get to that
point right you talked about.
Like you know, I'm fromCalifornia.
I grew up sort of I would say Iwas more like a holiday
churchgoer.
I didn't go to church on asuper regular basis, even though
(32:40):
my parents belonged to a church.
I moved to the South where,like religion is everything,
people want to know what churchyou go to.
They're inviting you to theirchurch, everything's built
around church.
I moved to the South where,like, religion is everything,
people want to know what churchyou go to.
They're inviting you to theirchurch, everything's built
around church.
But I felt, always felt, reject.
I always rejected that.
What I, what I felt was thedogmatism and the
prescriptiveness of traditionalorganized religion and but
(33:00):
having many friends, includingmy husband, who grew up at
Pentecostalal right, grew upPentecostal, it's just, it's
very and so you know, listen,this is not a knock on anyone's
chosen religion, but it reallyis about the fact that, like
when we grow up in certaintraditions they imprint on us
very deeply and if you move awayfrom that, there's a lot to
(33:22):
unlearn, especially if that, ifwhat you've learned is harmful
to you, right?
Not all religion is harmful,but there's some aspects that
are not the best for us, and soI'm struck by how much you have
to unlearn in this process.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
You have to unlearn a lot, because you know, being
from the South, it's always beena like you say, a dogmatic
thing that you're unworthy.
You're just unworthy, no matterwhat you do.
You're just unworthy.
You're at the low end of thetotem pole and you're always
striving to prove yourself.
(33:59):
So you have to unlearn that ifyou're truly all that God is and
this is what this is also alsoindicatable, as they say that we
are one then I have to unlearnall of the things that I've been
taught about how bad of a humanI am.
You have to start there, youknow, and so, starting there, it
(34:24):
can be very difficult.
You'll find yourselfvacillating between the two.
You know a lot.
You're like I think I can dothis, I think I'm working yeah,
one moment, then another moment,oh, I'm not working.
And so it's sort of like ridinga bike yeah, you get on and you
fall off, and then after awhile, you kind of get it when.
Okay, I've fallen off this bikequite a few times.
(34:46):
I can ride it now.
I'm going to be okay.
I'm going to be okay.
It's nothing that you bring tome that's going to change my
mind about the way I see myself.
You know, it takes time, though.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
And what I particularly resonate with is
the spiritual being having ahuman experience.
I think that is a reallypowerful reframe and I think the
other reframe that you've giventhat I think is powerful is
that everything works out forits highest good, not that it
works out according to what wasin our project management plan
(35:21):
or on our planner, right?
Let's just be just be clear,like we all, you know, we talked
about like you want to make Godlaugh, talk about your plans
but that those things work out.
You know the way they need toand you know, in the green room,
you and I were talking aboutjust how really chaotic and
uncertain things feel and Idon't know if you're.
(35:42):
You've got a number ofdifferent businesses.
You've been very successful asan entrepreneur and CEO and a
business owner and we talkedabout the fact that, like you
know, I know for me, like someof my business some of my
business, not a lot of it, butsome of it has shifted because
the political environment haschanged.
Right, I'm a speaker and therewas actually a conference I was
(36:04):
going to go, I was going to beone of the keynotes and that the
person who was putting on thisconference they'd been putting
this conference on for over adecade, lost all their corporate
funding like literallyovernight, and they had to send
out a note telling everyone hey,listen, this is not happening
anymore because we don't havethe funding, but we're going to
(36:26):
regroup.
And I just thought, wow, thisis really happening.
And so one I'm curious, asyou're talking in your own
business, what are you seeing?
But also, how are you helpingyour clients sort of make sense
of something that's really hardto make sense of?
Let's just be clear it don'tmake no sense.
(36:48):
What's happening?
Let's just say it don't make nodamn sense.
And yet, if we ground ourselvesin reality, it is happening and
so we have to cope.
We can't just shut it outcompletely, but we also can't
become a victim to the constantonslaught of negativity.
So how are you dealing withthat for yourself and what are
(37:10):
you saying to your clients aswell?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Okay, so let's address one of my businesses
disaster recovery Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
And talk about what that means, what disaster
recovery means to.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Disaster recovery is we assist.
Assist uh states, cities,municipalities recover and
rebuild that infrastructure outokay, so this would be a
government contract, essentiallyright.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Or or like a state or some kind of state contract,
right state government stategovernment contract.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Okay, the current climate, what is going on?
right, my car, my car andthey're like oh my God, are we
going to lose our funding?
All of this is going on rightnow, and what I've been saying
to individuals or women who areimpacted by this, or just my
clients, is going back to whatwe said earlier.
(37:59):
We're going to activate thepower of no, but in a different
way.
We're going to be veryintentional and very selfish
right now, and what I say tothem is in the face of all of
this, it has nothing to do withyou, do not look at all of this
as something to fear.
Change is inevitable.
(38:22):
It's the only thing that'sconstant in the world, and what
we have to do is regroup.
Look at this from is this apersonal attack on me, or it's
just change?
Is this contrast that's comingbefore Contrast?
Yeah, like, is it contrastcoming before something great?
So, where you have some peoplewho are saying, oh my God,
(38:44):
they're changing this, they'reruining my life, I have a Zoom
I'm going to be on in a coupleof days that says, oh no, we're
going to look at this as achange and how are we going to
shift our trajectory and stillwin in this climate?
So it's all about tell thepeople how are you looking at
what's going on?
Are you looking at this is adeliberately a deliberate attack
(39:05):
against me, or are you lookingat what's going on?
Are you looking at this as adeliberate attack against me?
Or are you looking at, oh, it'sjust change.
I've gone through so much in mylife.
I know how to shift with change, so it's all about perspective,
and so anything that we'redealing with right now I say
this to anyone do not look at itfrom a standpoint of fear.
Nothing is greater than you.
(39:26):
This is going to pass.
Some of these things that we'redealing with, we'll look back
at it and laugh, and some thingswe absolutely will not laugh
about.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, I'm not laughing now.
We're not laughing now, but Ido.
Well, actually, some of it islaughable, but not in a good way
.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, I was telling someone the other night.
I said for the first time Iactually get up and I look for
what is my laugh of the day.
With this climate, like what ismy laugh of the day and not
really don't take things tooserious.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Don't take it too seriously, don't take it too
personally.
I resonate with that and youknow it's like.
On the one hand, I thinkthere's a a like.
You know, for the first monthor so I was just like I can't
deal, let me just turn it alloff.
Then I went the oppositedirection where I was like glued
to the news and that wasn'thealthy either, because I found
myself, like I call it, like myreptilian brain, my monkey mind
(40:20):
was like, really, you know, youget dysregulated by just the
onslaught of bad news, and thenit, you know you get
dysregulated by just theonslaught of bad news, and then
it, you know.
But I agree I resonate so muchwith like it is change, change
is always happening.
It is not all good.
I also think that I was talkingto a client of mine and they're,
(40:40):
you know, it's a public policyinstitute and they deal with
racial and economic justice.
And one of the things that I'mstruck by is like when you know
your history right, you knowyour history, we know that
really.
Like not without being falselypositive, right, like toxically
positive incredible thingshappen in chaos.
(41:03):
Things happen in chaos and itis those of us who choose to
lead in and through chaos and tomeet, help, meet, guide people
through it and meet them on theother side of it.
And so that's the frameworkI've chosen to be in, as opposed
to like and I definitely had mywoe is me.
Oh my God, what is happening?
(41:25):
Let me not be like I was allzen about it, but when I thought
about it and I thought aboutjust you know, because I read a
lot and I understand, you knowhistory somewhat it's like we
have had incredible thingshappen, especially as Black
people, but you know, I wouldsay you know many marginalized
groups as well Like we can doamazing things in adversity if
(41:49):
we can put it in perspective.
And also, what I love, whatyou're saying also, will, is
hold the center of who are you?
What do I believe?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
What are my values?
That, to me, is really powerfulanchor in this time where just
it just feels like crazy time.
I don't know, maybe, maybe I'mjust, maybe I'm talking crazy
(42:11):
right now.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
No, no, no, you're not, because you have to
understand that.
It's deliberate.
If you have a bunch of dartsstalled at you, you have to
focus on what am I doing rightnow?
Yeah this is not the first timethat my life has been torn to
(42:34):
hell.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
You know what?
This is true, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
This is true, and when you look at it and say I've
dealt with bigger things thanthis.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
When you look at it, as you're a small potato
compared to my power.
I'm not going to allow yourdistractions to get me off
course.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
To knock me.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
off course, I'm going to anchor myself in my truth
and things are still going towork out for me.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
This is the message right here.
This is the message.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I'm going to anchor myself in my truth.
I think about a big ship with abig old anchor right now.
That's what we need to do.
We need to anchor ourselves inour truths and do not be moved
and do not be moved.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I get chills thinking about that because I think what
if we all, collectively, likein our community, believed that
right?
Collectively, like in ourcommunity, believed that right?
You know, it's all theeverything is flipping around us
, but we're like, we hold steady, we hold firm, and that to me,
is just a and with the beliefand I think this maybe gets at.
(43:46):
Some of you talk a lot aboutmanifestation too and your
writings and the belief that itwill work out.
Is that part of themanifestation Like how you know?
Again, that's one of thosewords, by the way.
I believe deeply inmanifestation.
I have seen it work for me.
You can't see my office, but Ihave a vision board.
I do, and I do the old schoolvision board Like I don't do the
(44:09):
digital one.
I have to build mine and I andCharisse, I've been doing one
for three, four years.
Everything I have put on thisvision board has come true.
If I hadn't experienced it formyself, I would tell you you are
speaking insanity, but Ibelieve it.
(44:31):
And so I wonder, as you, as youtalk about, believe everything
will work out for you.
How do those who maybe are kindof newer to the thoughts around
manifestation like how do youdo that?
Because it seems kind ofwoo-woo out there new age
nonsense, but it is real, it'sreal.
(44:52):
So how do we like for those whoare just kind of tuning in and
thinking like, oh, I'm kind ofinterested, I've heard the word,
but I don't really?
You know, it's not an Instagrampost, it's real.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
What it means for me is really understanding what
abundance really is.
I love that word, yeah, yeah,abundance is more.
When you think aboutmanifestations, you think about
them as a whole, not just a car,a house, money and all of that.
(45:25):
You know what I'm saying.
But when you hear that word,you hear manifestation.
That's the first thing peoplethink about.
Oh, you're talking about megetting a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Right, I right this house.
Yeah, it's a thing, a materialthing yeah, right, no.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
When I'm talking about manifest manifestations
and abundance, I'm talking aboutunderstanding I love.
You've used this word a fewtimes, yeah I'm talking about
understanding, and if you likethe word understanding, you can
use that too I love interest.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Now, I love it, let's , let's.
I want to go with your word.
I prefer it.
I feel like it's a different.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
It has a different vibration to it so if you, if
you, when I talk about it, I'mtalking about understanding of
the fact that nothing that Idesire is truly outside of me.
So when I'm talking to someonethat has never heard this before
and they say what are youtalking about, about this
abundance and manifestationthing?
Do you truly believe that whatyou desire came from some part
(46:23):
of the sky?
It's not really real.
I can't have it.
No, because if someone else hasit, they are no more deserving
to.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
You gets back to the deservedness and worthiness,
Gets back to the deservingnessand worthiness right.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
You get next to the deservingness and worthiness,
and that's the time that we'rein right now.
The time that we're in rightnow is not to fight, it is to
build.
We're in a turn right now wherewe shouldn't be fighting.
We should really embraceabundance of what we really are
and build and collaborate withthose with that understanding to
(46:58):
manifest the things that wedesire you.
Fighting is just a distraction.
It's just a distraction Because, if you look at it from well,
this has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
This.
Just I can't even tell you, Ijust have these chills and there
are a few things I want to justkind of maybe zero in on.
So because you said something,a couple of things really
profoundly.
So one is like this abundancemindset which is like it's about
building, it's aboutcollaboration, finding your
people out there, finding yourchives out there, and building
(47:31):
because that's the forcemultiplier.
I also hear you saying it'sabout it's back to what we
talked about the very beginning,which is like believing you are
worthy, like you are alreadyworthy, you don't have to earn
it, and I think that is a verykind of rebellious, if you.
I'm going to say it's arebellious thought because we're
living in a time right now,where everyone's telling us
(47:53):
there's not enough of anything.
There's not, we have.
There's not enough of this, wegot to cut this, we got to pull
back that, we have to get rid ofthis.
We're going to we're.
These people are taking thingsaway, and so your message is
very rebellious in that it's thecomplete opposite of that which
is there's.
(48:13):
Not only is there plenty,there's more.
Like you deserve it.
You deserve it and, if you canbelieve it and you see it in
others, like it's available toyou, like that, to me, is
incredible.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I like that word that you choose, that word that you
chose rebellious.
It can be looked at as arebellious mind.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, it is because it's not status quo.
Right To your point earlier,it's like maybe I'm not going to
think like everybody else, I'mgoing to think like this is what
I believe, and that, to me, iskind of rebellious, in the best
sense of the word.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Well, I think that distractions are deliberate
because thoughts are things.
That's right.
If people can get you to startthinking on a certain track and
thinking a certain way, they getyou to crystallize realities
based on what they do for you.
But if you can say, but if youcan keep the mindset of
(49:15):
abundance, of I'm healthy, I'mwealthy, there's more than
enough in the world.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
There's more than enough.
I can get my share.
I can get.
Yeah, it's available to me.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I don't have to compete with anyone.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
There is no competition, there's more than
enough.
You can have your share, I canhave mine.
We can be doing the same things.
We both can get rich.
We don't have any competitionbecause there's more than enough
.
If you can practice thatmindset and maintain that
vibration, all of these things,you soon fall away and you
(49:51):
realize I was worried fornothing.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
That is deep.
That is deep.
How do people practice so?
How, like, what's a practicalthing that people can do to?
Is it journaling?
Is it, you know, dailyaffirmations?
Is it all of those things Likewhat's a really you know for
someone who's listening to thisgoing like, hey, I'm okay,
you've got my attention?
How do I practice that?
(50:16):
How do I start?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
So how do you start?
Let's go back to what we weretalking about, because I will
have people listen to this andsay, well, I've done those
affirmations, they don't work.
They don't work.
Well, they don't work becauseyou don't know what you are.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
No shortcuts, no shortcuts.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Right, there's no shortcuts for this.
You have to genuinely deal withhow you're seeing yourself to
activate this.
You can't use somebody else's.
Well, I'm just going to writethis down because Portia told me
to.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
No, that won't work.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Your belief starts with believing in yourself.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Right here, do the work first with yourself.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Do the work with yourself, and what you'll find
is doing that work.
You will find that you aregaining confidence.
You'll find that you know that.
You know that you know thatwhat you're saying is true.
Everything that everybody elsehas been telling you about
yourself is a big old fat lie.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I already know, I know.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
And when you know this, you you release thoughts
yeah that crystallize into thesethings and after a while,
portia, you'll just start sayingthis is funny, this is, this is
not even a, this is like amiracle, but things are
happening for you, yeah, yeah.
It's happening so fast thatyou're like wait a minute.
(51:36):
So I would just want toencourage everyone Do not be
distracted by all these things.
Yeah, stay focused on what youare.
Know that you're greater thanall these other things that are
being thrown at these darts thathave been thrown at you, and
really embrace abundance in allthat.
It is not just the materialthings, because I say to people
all the time what are you goingto do with a car when you're
(51:57):
mentally stressed and sick?
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
What good is the Bentley when you're mentally
stressed and sick?
You can't do anything.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Listen, when your blood pressure is up and you're
pre-diabetic and your hair'sfalling out and you gain 52
pounds like what does it matter?
Speaker 2 (52:17):
none of that matters.
So when we embrace theunderstanding that I'm, life is
happening to me, not the otherway around.
You're not creating anything.
It's already created.
Everything that you desire isalready done.
That's the reason why I saythings are already working out
for you.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, it's already in motion.
It's already in motion, it'salready in motion.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
The only thing you have to do is keep your
confidence, and that's whatdistractions do they have?
To throw you off your game.
It's true, isn't it?
I'm serious.
They throw you off your gameand then, the next thing you
know, you start believingsomething different and all
those things start manifestingin your life.
So there's the lack, thepoverty.
Now it's our phones, it's, it'severything.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
And so what I take that to, what I take that to
mean also, is, like, everythingwe allow into our heads whether
it's social media, whether it'sthe people around us, whether
it's television, whether it'sanything like you, we have you
got to be on guard about whatyou allow into your
consciousness, because, like allof that, you're right.
Like if you're fed a steadydiet of you, ain't shit, or
we're falling apart, or thiscountry's falling apart, or
(53:45):
these people are taking youropportunities.
Eventually, you start tobelieve that and we essentially
put that back.
And I do believe thoughtsbecome things.
I tell this to my kids all thetime.
If every day you told yourselfI'm stupid, guess what, guess
what happens.
If every day you tell yourselfI'm no good at math or I don't
do this very well, guess whathappens.
(54:06):
You make that true, and so whatyou're saying is so powerful,
Cherisse, in terms of just like,really think, like watching our
thoughts, and it's justincredible.
Okay, so this is.
I could literally talk to youfor two more hours and you know
(54:28):
you and I were talking aboutearlier.
I said, you know, because we,we this was on our original
recording date and I said, butyou know, something tells me
this is the right date and Iagain no accidents.
Right, there's no accidents.
Everything happens when itshould happen.
So this is the fun part,because we've been talking about
some really deep thoughts.
(54:48):
We've been having a deepconversation here.
So we always like to have alittle bit of fun with our
guests to wrap up with ourlightning round.
So my first question for thelightning round for you is what
is your superpower?
Speaker 2 (55:03):
So my superpower is invincibility.
Oh, I love it so quick.
I think we all should adaptthat, because invincibility is
about bending but not breaking.
It's about having a fortifiedor a fortress in your head about
what you are, who you are andwhere you're going.
(55:24):
And if you get knocked downseven times, you just get up,
dust yourself off, re-hit thereset button and go it again.
We go, let's go again.
We're not giving up because weknow we're going to get to that
goal.
So invincibility.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Because it's already.
It's already in order.
I love that.
I love that.
I think my last question foryou is what's a motto or phrase
that defines your personality ormindset?
Speaker 2 (55:57):
And maybe you've answered it, but like what I did
already, but I want to leave it.
I want to leave it witheveryone because I want you to
have the confidence in knowingthat things are always working
out for you, no matter whatyou're doing.
So my power phrase is I'malways in the right place at the
right time to meet the rightperson to shift the trajectory
(56:18):
of my life.
Someone I'm going to meet.
I don't care if it's in agrocery store, I don't care if
it's at some meeting or someevent.
I'm going to meet that personand we're going to collaborate
and we're going to take ourlives to the next level.
So that's my phrase right place, right time, right place, oh my
gosh.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Dr Charisse Mullins, you have been a gift today.
I'm so grateful to you.
I cannot wait for our listenersto hear this.
We are going to link to all ofher socials and the show notes
and to her website.
She's got some really greatresources on their website.
Please check them out.
And to her website.
She's got some really greatresources on her website.
(56:55):
Please check them out.
And, dr M, so lovely to haveyou here.
Thanks so much for the gift,the gift of your time, truly
today.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be here.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Thank you so much Thanks for listening to
Ungovernable Women.
Our producer and editor isMegan King.
Our social media manager isDestiny Eicher.
Be sure to rate, review andsubscribe to our show on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen to your pods.
Your ratings help otherlisteners find us.
You can follow and DM us onInstagram at ungovernablexwomen,
(57:30):
and TikTok at ungovernableXWomen.
See you next time.
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