36. Breaking Down a Doctor's Rant with Evgeniy Kharam

In today’s episode, we talk about a disgruntled doctor, his real/understandable problems, and [perhaps] a bigger problem with mindset; and as always, wrap it up with the formula to protect your business from Boris Grishenko. 

Episode Transcript

Justin (00:15):
Welcome everybody to episode 36 of unhacked. Guys, it
is the beginning of January2025. We, this is our first
recording of 2025. Now I don'tknow if it's laziness. I don't
know if it's opportunity, but wehave, we've kind of been quiet
for a few weeks.
I think our last episode werecorded in November. Is that
right? We've been on the airsince then. It's been a minute.

(00:38):
It's been a minute.
So, here we are. We're backbetter than ever, and we're
kicking this year off with acommitment to bring on more
guests. And, god, I could not bemore excited to have and I'll
I'll know I'll slaughter yourname even though I practice.
Yevgeniy Karam. Is it KaramKaram?
So say your last name for me.Evgeniy Kharam. Kharam. Okay. I

(00:58):
was close.
I was close. I tried. Alright,guys. We are going to talk about
well, first of all, a littleintroduction to unhacked. It's a
deliberate misnomer because, youknow, 97%, most the vast
majority of breaches can beprevented if you put basic
security measures in place,follow the the the oh my god.
I was gonna say platforms.Frameworks. There we go. All the

(01:23):
frameworks, whether it's, CIS,NIST, HIPAA, PCI. And and I'm
I'm bringing all these acronymsup on purpose right now because
we're gonna talk about a doctorI read today.
We, I read on Reddit. Thisdoctor just, like, blowing a
gasket because he had so manythings he had to do in the world
of cybersecurity. And he wasbasically saying I'm not gonna

(01:44):
not do it, but good luck sellingme on this stuff. So, I I wanna
break down that just kind ofmindset of, you know, there
there we have to find thisbalance, and that really is the
essence of our podcast isfinding the balance between
every goddamn thing we'resupposed to do as business
owners and and narrowing thatdown to what really matters.

(02:06):
Where do we really spend ourtime?
Where do we really spend ourmoney so that we can outsmart
the likes of Boris Grishchenko,the arch nemesis of James Bond?
That's what we're here to talkabout. I am Justin Shelley, CEO
of Phoenix IT Advisors. I workwith businesses in the Dallas
Metro. We do some work in Utah.
We do some work in Nevada, kindof all over the place at the

(02:26):
moment. And I am here with mygood friends and regular
cohosts, Mario and Brian. Brian,why don't you start first? And
then, Mario, tell us who youare, what you do, and who you do
it for. Excellent.

Bryan (02:38):
Yep. Bryan Lachapelle with b four Networks, based out
of Niagara Region, Ontario,Canada. And we help small
businesses remove all theheadaches and frustrations that
come with dealing withtechnology.

Justin (02:48):
Excellent. Mario?

Mario (02:51):
Mario is the chief CEO of MASDET IT. We're located in
North Jersey, right rightoutside of, New York City. I've
been in business for 20 yearsnow, focusing on, you know,
construction, engineering,architects. You know, anybody
that has computers, you know,will help them. We focus more on

(03:13):
midsized companies offering,white glove, IT services.

Justin (03:18):
Alright. And, guys, you anybody who's listened to

Evgeniy (03:21):
this podcast knows that Mario and Brian and I

Justin (03:24):
have been friends for years. We've been doing this
podcast for almost a year nowcoming up on it. But today
today, we have our specialguest, Yevgeny. And I've gotta
tell you a little bit about himfirst and why why he caught my
eye and why we're here today. Sothis is really kinda, lame, and
I'm gonna drop some names, but,Evgeny and I are both really

(03:45):
good friends with RobertHerjavec.
If you don't know who RobertHerjavec is, he's the, one of
the stars of Shark Tank. He wason Dancing with the Stars. The
guy can dance. Who knew? Heraces cars, does all kinds of
stuff.
Right? But, and I I'm if youcan't tell, I'm really lying
about the fact that I'm friendswith this guy. But I did one

(04:06):
time meet him. Actually, I methim three times. One time I met
him at his office up in Canada,and there is a chance that
Evgeny and I have actually metbecause, Evgeny, you worked
there, 10 years ago.
Correct?

Evgeniy (04:17):
No. I was there 2 and a half years ago, but I worked
there for a long time. Yes. Iwas there 10 years ago.

Justin (04:22):
You were there when I was there? Yes.

Bryan (04:23):
Right?

Evgeniy (04:24):
Yes.

Mario (04:24):
I mean,

Justin (04:24):
we met or not.

Evgeniy (04:25):
I don't know. Years. Yeah.

Justin (04:26):
Yeah. Okay. So, Jeff Ginni, tell me a little bit. I
you know, the notes I've got,you're, number 1, you climbed
the ladder there at the HerjavecGroup. You're a father of 4.
You have this wild ski slashsnowboarding party that I'm
gonna miss unfortunately thisyear that I really hope you'll
do again so I can come to orsomething like it. You're a
board member, I believe, or anadviser, and I might have wrote

(04:48):
that down wrong. For theCanadian cybersecurity network,
I want you to talk a little bitabout that because I don't
really know what that is. You'vegot a media cyber consulting
service. You have 2 podcasts.
You wrote a book. I mean, you'vedone a few things. Right? So
with with that, tell me what,what would you like people to
know about you and and why it isthat you're so, like, amazing?

Evgeniy (05:13):
You I might hire you as my PR agent. You know? It seems
so. You're doing such a good jobfor myself.

Justin (05:18):
Thank you. Thank you. So I'm a second We'll discuss fees
later.

Evgeniy (05:21):
Yep. Sounds good. You know, I have a couple of
shawarma beers. We can talkabout this part, you know.

Justin (05:27):
Okay.

Evgeniy (05:27):
So I'm a second time immigrant. I've been in Canada
for almost 20 years. I did startmy career in the Israeli Navy.
And while majority of the peoplestart their IT or cyber career
in IT, I kind of started mycyber career doing QA for
firewalls. So it was quite veryinteresting because I spent 2

(05:47):
years in Checkpoint.
If nobody if people don't know,Checkpoint is one of the still
biggest firewall companies inthe world that exists for a
long, long time. So when I movedto Canada, under my impression,
I I was thinking that everybodyknow how to debug the firewall.
So I'll come to a customer,we'll open a console, and we go
to Karen and they're like, whatthe hell are you doing? In 2

(06:08):
months, I realized how wrong Iam. And it was okay.
Because it was a bigdifferentials in a very, very
fast way. And then time, I couldestablish myself as a very
technical person that know howto fix stuff. Later on, took me
some time, but move up to otherbecome a team lead, group

(06:28):
manager, and VP as well. Andwhat I realized that it's quite
important is doesn't matter howsmart you are. If you cannot
particular your ideas in thelanguage, and Justin, as you
mentioned, we hear not to justthrow acronyms in the language
that the other personunderstand.
And this could be businesslanguage. This could be simple

(06:49):
language. This could be whateverlanguage as a person understand.
And because English wasn't myfirst language, it was actually
my third language and the secondtime immigrant, It took a while
to figure out the best way toconnect to people. And I think
this is one of the mostimportant part that people
missing right now.
I learned even more when Istarted the podcast because now

(07:10):
you have video, you have audio.You know, it's gonna stay there
forever, and you're not gonnawatch this. So you better know
what you're doing and how youcommunicate there as well. And
all these small pieces, this wasmake us a better human being, a
better professional. So it'slike Brian, Mario, Justin,
you're saying you guys helpsmall businesses.

(07:31):
But if you come, they're alllike, Oh, I can do TCP IP. I
know so many frameworks. And Iunderstand SSL people, like,
what are you talking about? Idon't know what you want from
me. I have 5 laptops, 10 people,and I need to understand how to
just do my work.

Bryan (07:47):
Right.

Evgeniy (07:47):
So you need to go to understand their pain point,
understand how to take this painaway. And guess what? It doesn't
matter if it's a 5 people shop,or it's a 50,000 people shop.
They have the same pains.Depends who you're talking to.
If you're talking to a CISO VP,SVP, they don't care about nuts
and bolts. Same as the guy as adentist. They care about

(08:08):
business.

Bryan (08:09):
Yep.

Evgeniy (08:09):
They care about how we stay profitable, how we stay
online. So the problem that thedoctor has with 5 people and the
seesaw is 50,000 people, sameproblem. Yes. Anyway, it's a bit
of different thing.

Justin (08:23):
Right. Right. And and I'm glad you mentioned that
because, I mean, I've I've gottago back. So I I've I've got this
Reddit quote that I'm gonna readin here just a second. But this
really was driven home to me,god, almost probably about the
time you and I allegedly met upin Canada.
I I met with a doctor, smalloffice, and we were talking

(08:47):
about cybersecurity. We weretalking about HIPAA compliance.
And and this guy looked mesquare in the eyes. He's like, I
don't care. He's like, I'm toosmall.
They're not coming after me.Like, well, that may or may not
be true. But clearly, I was notspeaking his language, right, to
your point. I I was speaking mylanguage. I knew it was
important.

(09:07):
I knew why it was important. AndI I either failed to communicate
it or maybe he legitimatelywasn't interested, which, you
know, some of us are bigger risktakers than others. Right? But
so that that is what we're gonnatalk about today. And and I'd
not again, one of the otherthings that kinda caught my
attention, Jovginny, on, youknow, when I was reading about

(09:28):
your background and and what youdo is that ability to
communicate, technical stuff tonontechnical people.
And I think that is probably oneof our greatest challenges in
this industry. We speakdifferent languages. So, again,
today, we're gonna talk about adisgruntled doctor, his real and
understandable problems, andthen perhaps this bigger problem

(09:51):
of mindset. And we've talkedabout mindset before. We're
gonna dive into it again today.
And then as always, we're gonnawrap this thing up with a
formula to protect ourbusinesses. So, let me just go
ahead and read this. I'm gonnaread this entire quote, and then
we're gonna take some bulletpoints, and we're just gonna
break this down. And and quickbackground, this was not on a

(10:13):
technical thread where I readthis. It was actually on, I
think, small business orentrepreneur or something like
that, and this kid had just goneout and taken a cybersecurity
course or whatever, fanciedhimself, the latest greatest
cybersecurity expert, which isanother problem with our
industry.
You can do that. And he did, andhe gets on there, and he's like,
hey, guys. I've got this newskill. How do I sell it? And and

(10:35):
here's what this doctor said.
He says, I have a small medicaloffice. You come to me, and all
I'm gonna hear is that there'sanother problem I now have to
deal with. If you do that, youneed to come with some really
good data to prove I need todeal with this problem right
now. Not 3,264,512 businessesgot hacked. I don't give a damn
about them.

(10:55):
You need to have actual mybusiness issues. Why all the
systems I'm already paying for,HIPAA and PCI compliance or
whatever the damn acronym wasthat my credit card processing
company needed me to do aren'tgood enough and a reasonable
price I can pay to make ithappen. Also, for the most part,
it has to be hands off for me,and I'm not paying for

(11:15):
subscription. This better befixed, have a good life
solution, or something damnclose to it. When you talk to
me, you have to keep in mind, Ijust spent 6 hours seeing
patients, 1 hour finding outwhat the hell my billing people
are doing that were gettingdenied claims, 3 hours fighting
with insurance companies orsitting on hold with them, 2
hours talking my cliniciansthrough complex cases that they

(11:35):
need to deal with, 4 hours doingall the other back office stuff,
and I have 2 to 3 hours of workto do before I can go home and
go to sleep.
Now I did a little bit of math,and he might be working some
really long days there. I don'thave the time or energy for you
and your problems you'rebringing me. Doesn't mean I
won't do it, but it's gonna be ahell of a hard sell. Alright.
Now aside from the fact that Islaughtered the reading of this

(11:56):
poor guy's comments, I wish Icould have heard him say this
out loud because I think theemotion would have been much
better.
Let's get into this and let'stalk about how do we help
somebody like this, and and Iwant you guys' take on it
because here's here's my take. Ithink, a, these are legitimate
concerns, and, b, they're goingto sink him. Thoughts?

Evgeniy (12:20):
Can I start?

Justin (12:21):
Yeah.

Evgeniy (12:22):
Please. So definitely the guy is frustrated.
Definitely, there is no way toshow him the benefit of his out,
let him take the all the, youknow, the pressure out. What I
think people don't understand inthis case is that they're no
longer working in the dark.They're no longer working

(12:42):
without computers.
There's a billing system done oncomputers. His freaking x-ray is
done on a computer. His scheduledone on a computer. Probably
majority of the staff areconnected in his office. So if
this doctor will listen and I'llup with, okay, give me, like, 5
minutes to explain what'shappening, and then tell me if

(13:04):
it makes sense or not.
Because in the end of the day,you mentioned that you want to
work, you just want to work. Sowhat if you actually doesn't
work? What if you schedulesystem doesn't work right now?
Will this impact your ability tomake money? And from there, if
you stop and think about that,then there's opportunity to
explain, okay, this is why weneed to simple or like the

(13:28):
simplest protection or the basicprotection can have for your
devices, hygiene for yourlaptops, understanding what's
connected, what do you have, oreven what do you have on your
system, who is using your Wi Fito make sure we can do your
work.
This is this is how I willapproach this to understand his
pain, understand how he he makesmoney, and what will prevent him
to make money.

Justin (13:49):
No. That's that's actually a really good point.
You've got enough problems.You've got enough work on your
plate. The last thing we need todo is make it worse.
Right? Complicate it becausestuff is not working right.
Okay. Mario, Brian, thoughts?

Mario (14:03):
I mean, to me, when I when I read this the first time
and when you read it again, itseems to me like he's getting
multiple people coming up andtrying to sell him something.

Evgeniy (14:13):
Right.

Mario (14:13):
You know? And he he's sick of it, and he doesn't
understand why he needs to dothis. You know, sometimes when
we're, you know, meeting withprospects and stuff and stuff
like that, what we do and whatyou guys I'm, you know, we we
actually offer it all the timeis a network assessment. We
could come in there and showthem what is wrong and what we

(14:37):
can do to fix it. And I don'tknow if this guy ever let
somebody do this or if anybodyever offered to do something
like this.
Sometimes, you know, withsomebody like this and he's
saying he's, like, show me whatthe problem is with my business.
You know? And he needs somebodyto come in there and say, well,
you know what? Your server isrunning server 2012. You know?

(15:00):
This is why it's a problem. Thisis, you know, your your front
computer has administrativeprivileges. This is why a
problem, you know, it could be aproblem. I think he needs
somebody to to to to show himthe problems and not just you
know, you you you need to sellon the problem, not just sell a
solution.

Evgeniy (15:18):
Interrupt. But it's working. Why do I care it's
2012? It's working. It workedfor last 10 years.
It never went down. Maybe onetime when there was a power
down. Why do I care?

Mario (15:30):
Because when it does go down or when there is a problem,
you may not be able to come backfrom it. You know, it's that's
what we sell is we sell, youknow, it it so when it doesn't
happen and in case it doeshappen, you can recover. You
know? It yes. To some people,that makes sense.

(15:51):
To some people, it's like, well,you know, I'll deal with it when
it happens.

Evgeniy (15:55):
You think it is like you need to pinpoint the crown
jewels back to impacting thebusiness. Like, proactively the
same as people. If it's adentist, for example, profits
dentist, people proactively cometo you and tell you, we're not
just doing blood tests when wewant to we're unable to die.
It's because we've been doingblood tests every year, every 2
years, because we don'tproactively understand and not

(16:16):
get to this point. So, actually,it's a very interesting point
because we can come back todoctors and what they do and how
they treat patients to say we'redoing the same as you mentioned.
We'll do an assessmentperiodically.

Mario (16:26):
Yeah. No. Exactly. And even with a dentist, you can
say, well, why am I gonna cometo you every 6 months for for
cleaning and and this and that?Why can't I just come to you
when I'm having pain?
That's exactly, a a very goodpoint. That that that's it's a
different industry, but verysimilar, proactiveness. Yeah.

Bryan (16:47):
That's the approach I try to use. I always try to bring it
back to whatever it is thattheir business does. So in this
particular case, they're they'rea medical practice. Right? I'm
sure depending on the type ofmedical practice, maybe it could
be a dentist.
I I don't know. It says amedical practice. So, let's
assume it's just a regular Jeep,general practitioner. You know,
I would say, you know, if youwere talking to a patient who is

(17:08):
having, you know, health issuesand you knew that they were
related to perhaps beingoverweight or perhaps not having
enough exercise, you would letthem know, like, hey. Listen.
You probably should have aregular exercise regime. You
should eat better. Right? Youneed to do these things on a
regular basis in order to makesure you don't have problems
down the road. You could ignorethem, and you might have no
problems for years, and all of asudden, you end up with some

(17:31):
sort of disease that you can'tget rid of.
But you could have done thatproactively. You could have
prevented it from happening inthe first place. It's kind of
the same when it comes to IT.There's a lot of things that
have to be done on a regularproactive preventative basis to
make sure that you don't end upin a problem that you can't
extract yourself from. Andthat's the approach I usually
take when I'm talking tosomebody who doesn't

(17:52):
necessarily, understand the techside.
But bringing it back fromanother angle, I also say, like,
listen, Initially, there mightbe a lot of work to do, but once
we get into a regular regime,it's going to be very minimal,
and it's going to be relativelyreasonable for us to to be able
to do this on a on a cost basis.And my job as an IT provider

(18:14):
isn't just securing you, it'salso looking for ways that we
can make you more efficient andbe better, able to work in your
medical practice, in a way thatsaves you time. So if I'm doing
my job correctly, by the timethat we're done working or not
done working together, by thetime that you've worked with me
for, let's say, half a year,you're finding efficiencies in

(18:35):
your business that I'm payingfor myself and on top of taking
care of the security thing. Sowe're finding ways of making
sure that you're able to getyour, appointments out faster or
your your patients, paid faster,whatever it looks like. You
know, the different businesseshave different things that we
can do for them that willimprove their operations.
That's what I'm looking for aswell to offset our cost.

Mario (18:56):
Yeah.

Justin (18:58):
So one of the things I picked up on here is there is a
language barrier. Right? Whenhe's like, HIPAA and PCI or
whatever it was my credit cardprocessing company told me I had
to do, why why isn't it goodenough? So clearly, there's
there's a lack of understanding.And and, Jeff Gennady, that goes

(19:18):
back to your you know, what wetalked about before is this, you
know, communicating our worldinto the language of somebody
else who just doesn'tunderstand.
And and clearly, this guy isfrustrated. He does not
understand why he's writinganother check, why why he is
spending more time. He you know,because this is gonna involve

(19:39):
guys, let's just talk about howhow we do our sales cycle.
Right? How many meetings, howmuch time is involved with a
business owner when they decidethat they want or need to make a
change to their IT world.
Like, it isn't just click abutton and sign up, and you're
good to go. We're talking abouthours. We've got discovery.

(19:59):
We've got, technical audits.We've got planning sessions.
It it is a significant timecommitment. And, you know, and I
don't remember who said it, butit it seems like this guy has
been called upon multiple timeswith multiple sales pitches of
everybody telling him, I can goin, I can find a problem, and
now you have to fix it and payme to do it. Right? So what what

(20:23):
can we do? And I'm I'm kind ofthis is a little bit of
introspection for me, but howcan we make this world easier?
Because, I mean, like, this isgreat information for us where
where they may not understandour world. We now have the
reason I grabbed this thing offof Reddit is because now I have
a window into the life of myclient. They're frustrated.
They're overworked, probablyunderpaid for the for what

(20:45):
they're doing. How do wesimplify this process?
How do we change it? How do wemake it more beneficial to them?
Do you guys have any thoughts onthat one? It's hard.

Evgeniy (20:57):
It's hard because, yeah, we're not fully there.
We're still duct tapingcybersecurity, we're still duct
taping IT, not evencybersecurity, we're duct taping
IT. Right. What's the point forme to sell you a fancy antivirus
WAF protection when yourservers, as Mario mentioned, are
long, long, long need to be needneed to be refreshed. So we need

(21:20):
to first understand.
And, unfortunately, people onlyunderstand when it's happened to
them, not even happened tosomebody else. Right. So
awareness, yes. If it's a small,medium business, unfortunately,
I think it has to come from thetop. So it's the same as people
in accounting, people in withdoctors, they have their own
conferences where they need togo to get the CP cut.
That's what they would call themfor the doctors. And they

(21:42):
explained them about HR hiring,and about different things they
need to do. And while we'redoing fire alarms testing every
month, every quarter, nobodycomplained about them. It's a
necessary evil. So you have tocome from there.
And I think it also have to comefrom the patients. Like, the
most important part that I thinkpeople need to understand is

(22:03):
you're my doctor. You have myrecords. You know my information
that if it goes to the bad guys,probably has them. I just don't
know about it.
They can eventually find a wayto get to me. So why do I need
to hack Robert Herjavec, forexample, okay, if I can just

(22:24):
find his records in a doctor,and get it through there, for
example, and this is what thedoctor need to understand. We're
talking about privacy, we'retalking about data that I
supposed to protect legally,because HIPAA tells them you
have to protect it legally.

Bryan (22:39):
Yeah.

Mario (22:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one thing too, in, you know, we've
through Robin's community, we'veheard them say several times an
undisturbed prospect will neverbuy. You know? So if if he
doesn't see that there's anissue, it makes it a lot harder.
You know? Like, we we've satwith prospects all the time, and

(23:01):
they're complaining. They eithergot hacked, they lost money, or
their IT person doesn't, youknow, pick up the phone or
doesn't call them or doesn't doanything. It's for for us, we
have to kinda show them what isyou know, before it happens,
what you know, this is stuff.And it's hard because, you know,

(23:23):
you can sit with 5 different ITpeople, and you're gonna get 5
different, stacks, securitystacks, 5 different prices way
all over the place.
You know? There's no regulation.You know, you know, we've said
it before. There's no standard.Alright.
You need this. You need this.You need this. But you can argue

(23:44):
with somebody else and say, oh,no. You don't need that.
You can just use this. You know?So that that's the problem. It
it's for them, it's frustratingbecause they don't know, you
know, a standard. Like, theydon't know if it's you know,
it's not like buying a car.
Well, you know you're gonna get4 wheels. You're gonna get an
engine. You're gonna get, youknow, you know, if you're

(24:05):
looking at the exact exact samemodels and you're going to
different dealerships, you'regetting the exact same vehicle.
You know, the price is going tobe close, maybe different. But
the problem is with the ITindustry is, you know, you can
go to somebody and they'recharging $40 a month, you know,
for a user or and then you cango to the next person, they're

(24:27):
charging $300 per user.
So that's the problem. That'sthe frustration is that we don't
have, like, a standardized, andwe've talked about it before,
like, a standardized practice orregulation that, you know,
everybody needs to follow.

Justin (24:43):
One thing I do love, though, is that we're moving
towards a model where we do havethat with the the CIS standards,
for example, where where we wehave these frameworks and
whether it's CIS and, you know,we're going to use some of these
acronyms, but you've got,especially where today we're
talking about a doctor's office,but they in particular are
dealing with HIPAA and they'redealing with PCI compliance.

(25:06):
Those 2 do have a lot ofoverlap. So one thing we could
do to help this particulardoctor or business owners in
general is to show them whereall of the things that they are
required to do, can largely behandled in in one fell swoop if
done properly. Would you guysagree with that?

Bryan (25:25):
Yeah. I mean, yes and and no. I don't I think this is the
biggest problem that we'refacing in this industry is that
a lot of IT providers coming inand going, here's all the 100
things you need to do in orderto become compliant or be
secure, when really we should begoing in and saying, hey,
listen. I understand that thisis complex and this is
overwhelming. Why don't we treatthis as a journey?

(25:46):
Why don't we treat this assomething that is not ever going
to be finished because it's notsomething that can be finished.
We're going to just implement afew things here today and a
little bit more tomorrow and alittle bit more the day after.
And every month, we're gonnacome back or every quarter,
we're gonna come back with acouple of little extra things
that we can do to improve bit bybit. And if we treat it as a
journey, you're never gonna befinished because cybersecurity

(26:09):
doesn't change it doesn'tdoesn't stay static. Criminals
aren't saying, they put afirewall up.
Damn it. I'm gonna stop. I gottafind a new career. Born again.
Yeah.
They're they're gonna findanother way, and and and it's
gonna bypass things that we'veput in place. And so
cybersecurity isn't static. It'salways gonna change. And if we
treat dealing with a client andsay, listen. Yeah.

(26:32):
You want a one and done, butthat's just not possible. But
let's work on this together overtime in little increments versus
this big giant project that'sgonna take, you know, 15, 20, 30
days, and it's gonna cost you asuper fortune. Right? That's my
that's my take on it.

Evgeniy (26:47):
Seeing the other part, people understand and be very,
very slowly. What does thedoctor says? Take it away from
me. I don't wanna deal withthis. Right.
Basically, he wants a managedservice provider. He wants an
MSP or an MSP to help him.Somebody that will take it the
problems away. He probablypaying support or insurance for
his water cooler.

Justin (27:08):
Yeah. For whatever it is he he has there.

Evgeniy (27:10):
He doesn't really go and fix it himself. If something
happens with his water cooler,he calls someone somebody comes
and replaces the water cooler.Not a difference in this case as
well. This would probably helphappen with others. His medical
machines that he has, whateverthe devices he has there,
somebody coming and replacingthem.
So this is the mentality youneed to understand. Okay. Let's

(27:30):
understand the scope. Theproblem is when somebody call
him every month with a differentproblem, with a different price.
They don't know what is the fairprice to pay to do this.
He mentioned he doesn't wantsubscription. Bullshit. Sorry.
He pays subscription forMicrosoft, for Google Yeah. Or
for his cable, for his phone.

(27:52):
You think they're gonna bedifferent, why? Then it's been
you can you buy a magic wand,but this magic wand, you're
gonna need new batteries in 6months. So he doesn't have
subscription. People will comeand sell him new magic wand.
It'll cost the same or costtwice.
So until people don't understandthis part or will not wanna open
up and they're frustrated, andit will need to happen. Yes.

(28:16):
Part of our industries that weall going with gun blazing and
say, oh my god. Oh my god.Hackers come to come to to hack
you.
They don't understand what doesit mean. Well, they need to
understand there's there's abasic information they need to
do, passwords, patching,hardware that's up to date.

Mario (28:33):
No. But you're right. It it is. And the thing is,
honestly, we're we live in aworld of subscriptions. I mean,
even I read, an article, a fewmonths ago that even car
dealership now are starting todo the or they wanna start doing
subscriptions for, like, heatedseats.
You heated seats, and I believewith BMW, is No thanks. They

(28:57):
wanted to start doing heatedseats as a subscription. You
pay, you know, a couple $100 ayear and you activate your
heated seats. I mean, Teslaright now. Tesla, I believe,
does a lot of subscriptionstuff.

Evgeniy (29:12):
Yeah. It's also still driving related. Yeah. Like, the
thing the autopilot, I canunderstand why my autopilot is
subscription because I needdata. It doesn't really change,
doesn't adjust to the way I seeit.
I prefer a subscription ifsomebody can just take my car,
bring me a new car and do aservice. And if I have a issue
with the car, just give me a newcar and let me continue making

(29:33):
money. Yes. Definite,definitely, definitely wants
this as part of my leasing.

Mario (29:38):
Yeah.

Bryan (29:41):
Yeah. I'm a big fan of, and especially when talking with
doctors, it would probably, go along ways. I'm a big fan of an
ounce of prevention is worth apound of cure. Right? And so
what this particular doctorsounds he's looking for is a
cure when what he really needsis an ounce of prevention.
Right? Like, he's looking forsomebody to come in and just be
able to swoop in and fixeverything when really he just

(30:03):
needs somebody to come in andhelp on an ongoing basis to make
sure that he doesn't have to fixanything to begin with.

Evgeniy (30:10):
So Dustin mentioned about what's the actually,
Brian, you mentioned aboutwhat's the minimum. So what's
the minimum things doctors orsmall businesses need to have
without going nuts? Like, what'sthe 8 to 20 year olds?

Bryan (30:24):
If I had to say what the the the major things that a a
doctor would have to have inplace, it'd probably be a
handful of things. One,obviously, just having endpoint
security, some basic updates andmaintenance to the applications
to make sure that they arealways being protected against
the latest security flaws foundin the software that they're

(30:45):
using. Those two things will goa long way. And then lastly,
from my perspective from indoctor's offices, I find a lot
of doctors have unprotectedcomputers in rooms where
patients are alone. And so justsecuring the actual desktop in a
locked cabinet so that patientscan't just plug a USB key into a

(31:06):
computer and and then gainaccess, or in in inject any kind
of malware.
So locking that computer up.

Evgeniy (31:14):
I'll I'll piggyback on yours. Asset management, so
inventory. Yeah. At least basicunderstanding what is the
devices you should have in yourthis could be computer. This
could be medical devices,connected devices.
This could be software that Ineed to know. And also related
to mid of IT maintenance, like,if I have a software, I have a
computer, what's my maintenance?How what do I need to replace

(31:37):
it? When do I need to pay forthe subscription or the renewal
for whatever it is? And, also,as you mentioned, if I have
computers unprotected, I mayhave network ports also
unprotected in in the rooms aswell.
So this is all the basic stuff.Definitely some basic password
hygiene to understand how wesave passwords, not just on
sticky notes. Do we can we havea way to have some kind of

(32:02):
password management?

Mario (32:03):
And, you know, one thing I wanna add to that too is,
employee education. You know,you you know, you always have to
have your employees kinda have,like, some sort of education,
what to do, what not to do. Imean, I was at a, doctor's
office a few weeks ago with, mydaughter. And the it wasn't the

(32:27):
nurse. It was just like atechnician, that, you know, was
helping her.
It was at an eye doctor'soffice. And she said, okay, we
just put some drops in your ear.We'll be back in 20 minutes. And
she left, walked out, left thecomputer completely unlocked,
you know, different records andstuff like that was open. And,
you know, I'm I'm just sittingthere and looking.

(32:48):
I'm like, you know, I've been todoctor's offices where, a, the
computer automatically locksafter, you know, a minute or 2.
Or, b, the employee thatthemselves, when they're getting
ready to walk away. They'rethey're hitting, you know, a
couple quick keys, like Windowskey l locks the computer. But

(33:08):
they left us, you know, in theroom for 20 minutes with the
computer unlocked. You know, Icould've I, obviously, I didn't,
but I could've easily wentthrough and checked stuff like
that.
And I actually was sittingpretty close, and I just kinda
peeked over just, you know, forthe sake of peeking. And I saw,
like, oh, yeah. They have anantivirus. They have this. So it

(33:30):
looks like there's an RMMinstalled on there.
You know, they they already hadeverything down there. But if I
was somebody that, you know,wanted to do something
malicious, I coulda easily doneit.

Justin (33:42):
Yeah.

Evgeniy (33:42):
Give back on this. This is an this is very cool topic.
So we have to go RMM. Okay. Forpeople that don't know what's
RMM, it's basically a remote wayto help you with your device to
simplify the idea.
And there was unfortunately arecent hack with a company,
forgot the name of the company,through the vendor. The vendor
had malicious malicious softwareand they were able to get to the

(34:05):
company through the vendor.We're not gonna name names with
the vendors. But my questionhere, what kind of questions an
SMB need to ask the provider tomake sure is it gonna bring more
problems to the environmentbecause the provider is not kind
of securing themselves well.Because if I can hack your

(34:26):
system somehow and get to theRMM, I now have access to all
the information.
And I think we need to explainto businesses what kind of
questions they wanna ask theproviders before they sign a
check with them to understandthey're actually gonna do good
job for them and they themselveshave a good hygiene as well.

Mario (34:46):
I actually thought, like, was it too many pet podcasts
ago? We actually had a guestwith us that was actually
another MSP that didn't havethat happened to them. You know?
So we we what was it? Like, 2episodes, guys?

Bryan (35:03):
It was last it was last month. Yeah.

Mario (35:05):
Yeah. And I have actually lost a prospect that I actually
sat with. And one of their guysis, like, listen. They come with
their own problems. You know,they they can you know, we're
worried about us getting hacked.
They have a higher chance ofgetting hacked. Right? You know?
But that is a good point thatwhat are some things that they
can do to be protected byworking with an MSP?

Evgeniy (35:31):
I'll ask what is their processes. Show me your
processes internally. What doyou do? How do you train new
employees? How do you give themaccess to my environment?
How do you what do you do withmy data?

Mario (35:44):
Yeah. I mean, with us, you know, we we take and and it
is it's not a thing's foolproof.You know, we we will obviously
have we we won't set up anybodyunless the 2 FA is set up on. We
have IP, whitelisting. So only,you know, we only people in our

(36:05):
office can access our RMM tools.
Like, even if you're workingfrom home or something like
that, you have to have a VPNconnection into our system, you
know, work off a system in here.You know, obviously, have 2
factor authentication for VPN, 2factor authentication for
software and the computers. So,I mean, there are and it it

(36:27):
happens. And there believe it ornot, there are some prospects
that actually do ask thosequestions.

Justin (36:34):
I think so, Gevgenie, there was a a a lover at it, by
the way. But there was in in theMSP subreddit, there was an MSP
owner who had been in theindustry for, I think he said,
20 years, and a client had askedhim, it's not exactly what
you're asking, but basically,what are your best practices
that you hold me to? You know,what it it's not your process,

(36:56):
which is what you said, butwhat's your framework is more
what what the question wasposed. And the owner of this MSP
gets on the red, and he's like,I don't know. I don't know what
my my, standards are.
I don't what are these bestpractices we always talk about?
Let's discuss. You know, and itjust further illustrates, like,
if we don't understand itourselves, how in the hell does

(37:20):
the owner of a business know howto vet us? How do how do they
know that we know what we'redoing and that we're doing the
right things when it's when it'sso highly unregulated? You know,
for me personally, that stillcomes back to standards, and it
can be CIS or NIST or or orwhatever.
But it can also just be if I canprint off and show you these are

(37:40):
the standards we hold ourselvesto, and these are the standards
we're gonna hold you to, andthese are the standards we're
gonna hold all of our clientsto, that at least shows some
level of confidence in in theservice that they're selling.
Does that kind of answer yourquestion, or or is there still a
better way to approach whatyou're asking?

Evgeniy (37:59):
I think it's the answer to the question. I think it's
also some examples to explain tocustomers what what people do.
And it's more to be basicallygive them trust and explain to
them that, by the way, we'reeating our own dog food as well.
We're not just reaching your

Justin (38:14):
Yeah.

Evgeniy (38:15):
Ideas. We're doing the same because it's important for
us to make sure your data issecure, our data is secure.
Yeah.

Justin (38:24):
100%. And this is I've I've said before, I will
continue to say the number onereason that I insist on doing
these podcasts is so that I staysharp, so that I stay up on, you
know, what what's the latest andgreatest? What's the next thing
we have to do? What's thebiggest threat today? What's the
biggest threat going to betomorrow?
You mean, on that note, guys,we've talked about AI a lot. You

(38:46):
know, we haven't talked about isquantum computing. That's the
next thing on the horizon that'sgonna break all the encryption
out there. So I'm like, Jesus,this is not something one thing
that I heard Robert Herjavec saywhen I was up there, and this
was when Internet of Things wasjust kind of on the horizon. And
he was up there.
I'm I'm kinda scared because I'mlike, goddamn it. There's one

(39:07):
more thing that we have to payattention to, and he's got this
big old grin on his face. He'slike, there's no end to this.
This just gets the problem.These are my words, not his, but
basically, this problem ofcybersecurity just keeps getting
worse and worse and worse, whichmeans more business for me.
I I I heard that and it kindatweaked me a little bit. It's
true, but it's also, terrifyingand and is problematic for our

(39:32):
clients. But this is the gamewe're playing. Right?

Evgeniy (39:35):
Let's think about that, and we'll maybe be a bit geeky
right now. Yeah. We invent stuffbecause it's cool and
convenient.

Bryan (39:44):
Yes.

Evgeniy (39:46):
If you look on internet protocols, a bit geeky, not very
geeky, but SMTP, the emailprotocol, there is nothing
secure in the protocol bydefinition.

Justin (39:57):
Right.

Evgeniy (39:57):
And it's been around for a very, very long time.
Probably about 30 years rightnow, maybe 40 years. I don't
remember. We resigned started toput security on top of the
protocol. Browsing, HTTP, same.
Nobody was thinking aboutsecurity. DNS, same. And many,
many, many, even the basicprotocols to connect to

(40:18):
equipment, like Telnet, forexample, by definition, wasn't
secure at all. And all was plaintext, plain text for people that
are listening is basically, if Ican capture the data somehow, I
can understand and see all yourpasswords if we don't use it
anymore. And this is happeningwith majority of the cases.
We come up with AI, and thenvery, very quickly, we we figure

(40:41):
out what's the issues and theand the problems that you can do
with AI. So we don't reallythink about security first, when
we're doing conventions.

Mario (40:49):
Right?

Evgeniy (40:49):
We're thinking about how great it is, how it's making
our life easier. And then wefigure out that somebody else
can use it for malicious ideas.And now we try to figure out how
to secure it. I think there'sdefinitely more awareness right
now with new things, but it'sstill the case. People gonna
invent something cool and thenfigure out how to secure it.

Justin (41:08):
It's an afterthought a lot of times. Kinda reminds me
of the rush to work from home.Right? Everybody sent their
employees home, and they'relike, oh, shit. How do we secure
this mess?
A lot of breaches happened.

Mario (41:20):
I mean, is there a reason why we need to have, you know,
your your refrigerator and yourtoaster to be, you know, out on
the open Internet? You know?It's cool. I I want a smart
toaster or there's a smart oventhat I I'm looking to buy
because I wanna be able to cooksomething from when I'm home,
but it keeps you rollable. Youknow?

(41:41):
You don't know what's what'ssitting there, what what's on
their back end connecting totheirs that gives them a, you
know, red carpet right into yourto your, to your home or your
office.

Justin (41:55):
Yeah. Alright, guys. Before we dive too much into
geek speak and we're we'recoming up on, we need to wrap
this up anyways because, ourfamous guest has other places to
be today. I I wanted Jeff Ghini,if you would, one of the things
like like we've I I've alreadysaid, the the fear of overcoming
public speaking is one of thethings that caught my attention

(42:17):
in your profile. Tell me alittle can is that something
that you can just give us, like,a 5 minute synopsis of?
Definitely. Okay. Definitely.

Evgeniy (42:24):
And I think it's cool. So before we go to fear, you
mentioned 5 minutes. One of theother issues in the industry is
that people cannot communicateand cannot have their idea in a
very small chunks. So can youexplain what your business done
in 2 minutes? Can you explain mymy problem in 2 minutes?
Don't tell me stories about thegrandpa and what he did 5 years

(42:45):
ago and how we got here. Can youjust be concise and to the
point? So we'll try. Okay?

Bryan (42:50):
Okay.

Evgeniy (42:50):
So public speaking, it's actually the second fear
after death. Correct. If youdon't know, local statistics,
not mine. Now what's theproblem? In many cases, the
problem is there's anxiety thatI'm saying something.
People think I'm stupid. Peoplethink I'm not intelligence. I
will forget what I need to say.Many, many, many different
things that if everybody willreflect on themselves, I don't

(43:12):
need to explain, they willunderstand. Now, what's an
interesting part?
What's the difference betweenfear and excitement? If you
think about that. Fear, I don'tknow the outcome. Excitement, I
know the outcome. Rollercoaster.
We scared and we excited at thesame time. We know we're
probably not gonna die, butwe're still scared. But it's

(43:33):
such a it's just so close toeach other. If everybody for
people to have kids, first timeyou wanna tell the kid to go on
a slide. They're afraid, afraid,afraid, afraid, the moment they
go, that's it.
They're gonna go there like 8hours, no stop. Now they
understand the outcome. Why I'mtalking about that. Because when
you approach to public speaking,you have a fear, but in the same

(43:55):
time, you're probably a bit ofexcited. And if you can
translate kind of mind modelthat you can change the fear to
excitement, it's gonna be much,much different.
And, Dustin, you mentioned thisbefore, and I know Mario Brownie
probably as well. When you talkto one person, it's 1, 2, 3. The
more people you're talking to,the bigger is the stake, the

(44:18):
more fear you have, or the moreexcited you are. Think about
this as one pillar. Why?
Because you may be so scared.It's not enough just to tell
you. I also need to help you tokind of at least bring the fear
down, to calm yourself, to beable to sing. Why it's
important? Because if you'revery, very, very scared, it's

(44:40):
mean you focus is focusing onthe on the on the fear.
So let's say we can have coupleof focus points in the same
time. You can focus on theaudience. You can focus on new
slides. You can focus on yourdelivering the information. You
wanna focus, are you doing andand and and and you're very
monotony.
You're not gonna changeanything, and you pitch, and you

(45:00):
tone, and everybody gonna diebecause you're so boring, or
you're actually talking moreanimated. So if you're part of
your speech going to the theaterfrom that part of focus, you're
taking away all the CPU cyclesto watch everything else.

Justin (45:14):
Okay.

Evgeniy (45:15):
What can we do? Thinking about that. When you
scare, when you have some kindof anxiety, usually, you
heartbeat going higher

Justin (45:24):
Yep.

Evgeniy (45:25):
Because you're there. What if I can mechanically lower
your heartbeat rate and almostforce you to relax? Example,
breathing. Breathing associatewith my heartbeat. Usually
people breathe from 12 to 15breaths per minute.
When they scared and exhaustedor exhausted, or maybe like

(45:45):
running, it's going to 20, 30,even more per minute in some
cases. What if we do somethingsimple called box breathing?

Justin (45:55):
Mhmm.

Evgeniy (45:55):
Come from Navy SEALs, come from yogis as well.
Basically, the idea is I'minhale for x amount of seconds.
Let's say it's 5. Hold for 5.Exhale for 5.
Hold for 5. And repeat thecycle. My breath cycle right now
is 20 seconds. Basically, I movefrom 12:15 per minute to 3 per

(46:17):
minute. Guess what's gonnahappen with you?
If you do box breathing for 2,3, 4 minutes before you're going
on stage or before you need tojump on a customer very
important meeting, you areafraid will drop by 15, by 10,
by 20. This is not me. This isscience. You can try it
yourself. It's worked like afreaking charm.

Justin (46:38):
I'm trying it right now.

Evgeniy (46:41):
Don't try it right now. You you wanna be by yourself.
Okay?

Mario (46:44):
Pass out.

Justin (46:44):
Yeah. You can see my face getting red.

Evgeniy (46:47):
No. No. But you don't have to be half 5. You can do 3.
Yeah.
3. 3. 3. You know, this it'sstill 333. It's it's still gonna
be 12.
It's still gonna be, like, 5, 6per minute. It's still much
lower. What happens, you'regonna move your anxiety and your
fear down. You're gonna help youto translate this fear and to
excitement and actually focus onthe other things.

Justin (47:09):
I love that.

Evgeniy (47:10):
So this is one of the frameworks.

Justin (47:11):
One of the things

Evgeniy (47:12):
you can work with yourself. Guess what? The more
you do box again, the one bothbrings just 1. There's another
one called 1 to 2. Inhale for 2,exhale for 4, inhale for 3,
exhale for exhale for 6.
Same idea. You can do it whileyou're walking while you're
driving. Please don't close youreyes while you're driving
definitely. And you can, like Iused to go to the washroom, so

(47:34):
you can sit in the washroom,just do it like 2, 3 minutes
before I present. The more youdo it enough in your life,
almost every day, maybe whenyou're doing something, you can
mentally bring this idea to yourmind.
Even while you present for asecond, you almost remember the

(47:55):
sensation. Same as you remembermaybe the smell of perfume or
roses or something that carethat cures you. It will almost
create like an anchor to bringyou back to be more relaxed and
be more in the zone. To add tothis, let's put a cream on top.

Justin (48:13):
Okay.

Evgeniy (48:13):
Guess what? People tell you, oh, you should really not
use filler words. Like it's notvery good, but you cannot not
use filler words because we usefiller words to buy us time to
think about what to say. If youpay attention, when you relax
and you're talking aboutsomething you know, you're gonna

(48:33):
have less filler words. When youare more scared, more things on
on the go, you're gonna havemore filler words.
So by being more relaxed, youactually helping with the filler
words. And the best idea is toreplace filler words with
pauses. Silence. That's right.I'm Evgeny.

(48:55):
I can't do blah, blah, blah. Butif I allocating a part of my CPU
that now I took away from fearto watch filler words, I can now
do the the part as well.

Justin (49:05):
Yeah. Yeah. That people are very uncomfortable with
silence, especially when they'rethe ones doing the speaking. And
so

Evgeniy (49:12):
Was it 5 minutes? I I

Justin (49:14):
wasn't there was no stopwatch. Alright, guys. Well,
thank you for sharing that, JeffGennie. I I love okay. So this
is mostly cybersecurity, but wealso I I like to end these with
just some general advice,business tips, how to be better
people, better humans, better,business owners or whatever.
So, you know, we're we're movinginto now I'm noticing all my

(49:37):
filler words, by the way. We'removing into a world where we all
pretty much have to becomepublic figures if we you know,
in in business, we've talked alot today about how do we get,
you know, transfer to ourclients or our prospects, that
we're going to take care ofthem, that we're going to
provide them the things that,you know, that they're writing

(49:57):
the check for. But in the end,they don't know our language and
we don't know theirs. That is afact. And people do business
with those that they know, like,and trust.
And so if you really want toincrease your business, you've
got to be liked, you've got tobe known, you've got to be
trusted. And, you know, sothat's why I kinda wanted to
talk about this. We all havethis built in fear of public

(50:18):
speaking, and yet it is becominga version of survival in the
business world. So thank you forthat. I appreciate it.
Guys, we're gonna go ahead andwrap up. We will give, I'll go
around the room, give everybody,we'll we're gonna call it 42
seconds. I will be running aclock to summarize your key
takeaways, your final thoughts,final, introduction, how to

(50:41):
contact you if you want, andthen we're gonna close this up
and be back next week. And I'mgonna pick on you, Mario, to go
first, then Brian, thenJevgenie, and then I'll wrap it
up. Go ahead, Mario.

Mario (50:52):
I mean, my biggest takeaway is to pretty much set
up the prospects, but set up thethe person you're speaking to
with more information, you know,like, make them understand why,
you know, your solution is notnecessarily better, but why they
need it. You know? You have toeducate. And the best way to

(51:15):
sell something is to educatesomebody. You know, that's why a
lot of people love social media,like TikTok and Instagram and
stuff like that.
You know, I'm one of thosepeople too. You know? Like, I've
worked with vendors that I'veseen online. It's just
educating, you know. Ifsomebody's educated, you wanna
work with somebody that knowsthat they need your service,

(51:39):
that they know what is it thatthey need, what is it they have,
and what is it they don't have,you know.
So sometimes you gotta just, youknow, educate somebody, and then
one day, you know, they'llthey'll come and and talk to you
and have an intelligentconversation with what you you
you do and what you work, youknow, sell.

Justin (52:01):
Alright. Brian?

Bryan (52:04):
So my biggest takeaway is, okay, twofold. 1, as we're
talking to business owners here,I'll I'll speak to directly to
our our our business colleagues,and that is, if you are dealing
with an IT provider who is notcommunicating with you in a way
that talks about outcomes andbusiness impact, and they're

(52:26):
just talking about, you know,cybersecurity and, all the
things you need to do to yournetwork, and they're talking
tech, bring it back to what arethe impacts? How is this going
to impact me? What what whatkind of results could I see out
of this? Or what what will whatwill it prevent?
If I'm talking to, other ITproviders, then stop talking

(52:48):
about technology and starttalking about the actual impact
it has on the consumer or thebusinesses' systems in the sense
of like what is the businessimpact versus what is the
technical impact, right? If wedon't do this change for this
server, what is the impact? Whatcould happen? So that's the
conversation that I think we allneed to start having is what is

(53:10):
the what is the impact that'sgonna have on your business
versus, all these technicalthings we have to do.

Justin (53:16):
Okay. Sounds good. Jovgini.

Evgeniy (53:19):
I'm gonna continue the idea of communication with
people. I think we need to learnand explain to people that
people all learn and consumeinformation differently. Yeah.
And this is part of your role asa business owner to communicate
with the people in the ways theyunderstand, in the language they
understand. And if it's avisual, if it's an audio, if
it's kinesthetic way theyunderstand, ask them.

(53:40):
And how do you ask them? Youactually ask them to guide you.
So don't be afraid to askcustomers to guide you. What's
the better way to explain yourideas? And also don't be afraid
to guide the customer as well,Mr.
Customers can guide you. Let megive him 2, 3 minutes. I'll
explain how it's working. Andwhere we go and we can go in a
different way. So this is onepart that is definitely
definitely important.

(54:00):
2nd part, feel free to connectme on LinkedIn, Evgeny Karam, as
you see here, if you're watchingthe video, if no, Evgeny kharam.
Please go to soft skills. Techif you wanna check the book
about soft skills at technicalsales. A lot of the ideas I
discussed today come from thebook or into the book and
definitely as much, much more.There's also blogs there and

(54:22):
audio book just came out inDecember as well.

Justin (54:24):
Perfect. Devgini, by the way, well, mostly for for the
audience. I will have yourinformation linked both on our
podcast website, unhacked dotlive, and then I I put a page up
for each episode on my ownbusiness website, and I will
link your information there aswell. So listening audience, if
you'd like to get ahold of JayvGinnie, just go to unhacked dot
live, pull up this episode, and,his contact information will be

(54:47):
listed there. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, JeffGuinee, for being here. Brian,
Mario, always a pleasure. And,you know, I'm gonna sign off
with a very simplified frameworkthat I like to use for you know,
if if I'm a business owner andby the way, my takeaway here is
introspection. It is why I'mhere.
It's why I do the podcastbecause it does teach me how to

(55:07):
be a business better businessowner and business leader. And
if I put myself in the shoes ofa prospect, I have no goddamn
idea what you guys are talkingabout. Here are 3 things I wanna
know. Are you protecting mypeople? Are you protecting my
data?
And are you protecting mytechnology? And if you can
simplify it in those terms, thenI'm gonna understand that at

(55:28):
least we're on the right path.Nothing's a 100%, so we're gonna
wrap that up with good policiesand procedures and a solid
cybersecurity insurance plan.That's the way I would frame
this. Guys, again, thank you forbeing here.
We will see you all next week.Take care.

Mario (55:45):
Bye.

Evgeniy (55:46):
You?