March 27, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, YS Chi speaks with Bill Madison, CEO of our insurance business at LexisNexis Risk Solutions to explore the dynamics within the insurance industry and why premiums keep rising across the board. To understand the challenges consumers and insurance carriers are facing today, Bill takes us back to 2020, right at the beginning of the pandemic.
This episode is also available on YouTube at https://youtu.be/PGgi39UtbBE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
YS Chi (00:00):
The Unique Contributions podcast is brought to you by
RELX. Find out more about us byvisiting relx.com.
Bill Madison (00:10):
How do we help you evaluate columns of knowledge
about the risk itself and makean informed decision associated
with it? We've been very focusedon delivering decisions.
YS Chi (00:41):
Hello and welcome to our podcast. Today, we dive into the
world of insurance, an industrythat touches every aspect of our
lives and protects what we valuemost. Since the pandemic, most
of us have seen our insurancepremiums increase pretty much
across the board. Some Americanstates have seen property
insurers exit from the marketaltogether. I'd like to
(01:02):
understand why this ishappening. Is this an industry
in crisis? What will thesolutions look like? My guest
today is Bill Madison, CEO ofour insurance business,
LexisNexis Risk Solutions. Ourbusiness headquartered in
Alpharetta, Georgia, providesanalytics and decisions tools
for insurance companies. Bill,welcome.
Bill Madison (01:24):
Hey YS, thanks for having me.
YS Chi (01:27):
Thank you so much for making the time for this. Bill,
we know, you've been at thiscompany for 36 years, but before
we talk about that, how about asmall introduction from you
about yourself.
Bill Madison (01:40):
Well, to your point, over 36 years has been
quite a journey on many fronts.
In the early days, was part of astartup. We're based in
Charlotte, North Carolina,really defining a problem within
the insurance industry itself.
(02:01):
We created a solution to addressthe problem. The problem was
hidden drivers and helping theindustry to identify hidden risk
within their portfolio, we gotextremely focused on that. Went
through the market, reallyhelping the industry implement
(02:23):
that solution across the market.
We got acquired, and then,really advanced through that
solution to the position where Iam today. After we got acquired,
I went into sales and theneventually became the CEO of the
insurance division within RELX.
(02:46):
So, it's been quite a journey.
Today, I'm married, live inAlpharetta, Georgia. Have two
sons, two young men. It's hardto believe how quickly they've
grown both personally andprofessionally. They're doing
well. It's been quite a journeywithin itself, very exciting.
YS Chi (03:09):
Yeah, very exciting and I'm going to eventually get to
this, but to say that you wereactually defining of a problem
to solve, and it was abouthidden drivers and hidden risk
from them, right?
Bill Madison (03:21):
Yeah, that's it.
YS Chi (03:22):
All of that was well before the days when we talk
about AI, let alone dataanalytics or even big data. How
did you think about that?
Bill Madison (03:32):
Yes, it's funny when you really step back and
look at most startups, theinitial offering was a failure,
to be brutally honest with you.
We really focused on the basiccomponents of capturing mileage
intelligence and doing thesimple math between the point A
and point B, and in determininghow many miles you drove as a
(03:56):
consumer over the course of theyear. Sounds very simple, which
it was. Sounds very exciting,which it was. The problem is the
early days of computing, whenthe inspection locations would
load this software on theirrecently acquired PC, back in
the day, they didn'tconsistently put the data
(04:18):
incorrectly within the softwarepackage. We had to step back and
we started to really engage withthe market, asking questions.
Basically came up with thisconcept, once we did some
research with availableinformation. Data assets by
state, could we acquire thedriver's license file within a
(04:42):
state? That's what we did. Wherewas available, we went and
acquired all the licensed driverinformation within a given
state. We developed a programmethat could actually take an
insurance carrier's book ofbusiness within that state.
Compare it, match it to ourdatabase, and let's say there's
a policy out there that hasthree cars, vehicles associated
(05:06):
with the policy, and twodrivers. We would match on the
address. We would identify thosetwo drivers being located at
that address, and if mom and dadforget to put licensed kids on
the policy. We would identifythose individuals that were in
(05:26):
the household at that locationwere reported back to the
insurance carrier. Then theinsurance carrier would reach
out to the policy owner and say,"Hey, I see you have, looks like
two kids, two of your kids thatare licensed within a household,
do they belong on, associatedwith one of the policies? Are
one of the vehicles on thepolicy?" That's what we did.
(05:48):
Again, a very simple concept ofacquiring information, matching
it, reporting back to thecarriers, and then allowing the
carriers to actually get thepremiums associated with the
risk. That's what we did, andit's still all these years
later, is still a very viablesolution that the insurance
(06:11):
industry uses today.
YS Chi (06:14):
So from that little thing, that little curiosity and
piecing together the puzzles toyour current nickname, billion
dollar Bill.
Bill Madison (06:28):
That's too funny.
YS Chi (06:29):
Oh, wow. Don't think it's funny at all. It's very
respectful Bill. That you buildthis business into a billion
dollar business. Tell us alittle more secrets.
Bill Madison (06:40):
Well, the secrets are really all about the people.
YS Chi (06:43):
You always say that.
Bill Madison (06:44):
Well, I know, but it's a truth. It really is a
truth. I look at myself as aspoke in a massive wheel, and
the wheel actually turns becauseof all the spokes working
together. All the people, theknowledge that we've created.
We're very focused on theculture of the business itself
(07:06):
being decisive, owning outcomesand acting as one team, and
that's what we do. The otherside of it is we have an
incredible market that we'reworking with today. The
insurance industry, justabsolutely incredible. You
identified it in your openingwhen you said, what the
insurance industry does, itkeeps us safe. And when you
(07:31):
start to look at thefundamentals of insurance
carriers and what they do andsome of the challenges they
have, they work with us to makeus better and to create new
solutions that are prominentthroughout the industry today.
We spent a lot of time on that.
YS Chi (07:52):
Yeah, let's start talking about that at current
time, okay. Insurance rates havegone up. I think we've all felt
that in the US, especially.
Whether it's car insurance orboat or home or any property
insurance has gone up. Whatwould you say are the
fundamental reasons behind thishappening?
Bill Madison (08:12):
Let's go back four or five years, right to the
beginning of the pandemic andwhat happened during 2020. That
was really the cornerstone ofsome of the challenges that
we're dealing with today, acrossthe market. If you think about
it, when March of 2020, hit,consumers stopped driving.
YS Chi (08:36):
That's right.
Bill Madison (08:37):
The vehicles stayed parked in their garage or
their driveways, because peoplejust weren't moving around. They
weren't connecting, they weren'tgoing into the office, they
weren't really exposingthemselves as a risk to the
insurance industry. As a resultof that, there were a lot of
consumer groups that werestarting to question as to, why
(09:02):
are we paying for our autoinsurance premiums, when we're
not driving the car? For theaverage person, it's a fair
question to ask, but it iscomplicated in a lot of ways.
What happened as a result ofthat event, and people are not
driving. Guess what's happening?
They're not following claimseither, because they're not
(09:24):
having accidents. The industryis starting to make pretty
significant profits over thecourse of the year. As a result
of that, the departments ofinsurance were getting involved.
Some of the consumer groups weregetting involved, and they're
saying, "okay, so shouldn't yoube doing something here?" That's
exactly what the insuranceindustry did. Started giving
(09:46):
rebates, started dropping rates,just to kind of stay in front of
the event itself, but alsobecause they were making a lot
of money. So, 21 hits, what didpeople, the average consumer
started doing?
YS Chi (10:01):
Coming back out with vengeance.
Bill Madison (10:03):
Amen. So, they start driving. When people are
driving, what are they having?
They're having accidents. Nowthe carriers are saying, "oh,
man, this came on a lot fasterthan we anticipated." With the
increase in driving activity,the carriers say, I'm starting
to be more challenged andstarting to lose money. Now we
(10:25):
got to fall for right rateincreases. So, working with the
departments of insurance acrossUnited States. Basically they
were trying to get rate to coverthe risk, and they just they
couldn't get enough rate tocover the, some of the
challenges that they weredealing with. That process
really continued over the courseof 21, 22 and a big part of 23
(10:50):
as well. As rates were going up,there's a state out there on the
west coast that over a tierperiod, 23 and 24 the average
rates within the state went up41%.
YS Chi (11:07):
Oh my goodness.
Bill Madison (11:08):
Yeah, incredible.
YS Chi (11:10):
During that time Bill, did the insurance companies
regain the profitability? Arethey making too much money right
now, or are they covering costof repairs and all the other
stuff that has also gone up?
Bill Madison (11:22):
Yeah, well, they're just starting to get to
a point of profitability afterall this time.
YS Chi (11:28):
My goodness.
Bill Madison (11:29):
It's been quite a challenge for them. You look at
labour costs, you look at partscosts associated with it, and
the challenges that they hadover this period of time.
They've been trying to get backto a point of profitability.
Some people are saying, is themarket at a challenging point. I
(11:54):
wouldn't really identify as a,really a challenging point.
They're at a point of transitionright now. You have some
carriers that are just gettingback to a point of
profitability, where they'restarting to get focused on
growth again, which isinteresting. They have other
carriers that are stillchallenged and still trying to
(12:15):
get rate increases approvedthrough the departments of
insurance. You have a lot oftransition activities that are
not consistent across themarket.
YS Chi (12:25):
It seems like the insurance business has that
delay because of the regulatorsthat have to approve the rates
each time.
Bill Madison (12:32):
Yes and that's a big impact on it. One, they've
got to prove it right. Theyreally need the rates, and then
the regulators are there toprotect consumers,
YS Chi (12:43):
Yes.
Bill Madison (12:43):
Right, making sure the consumers aren't overly
penalised based on any activityacross the markets that are in
play here.
YS Chi (12:53):
Yeah, yet as consumers, it hurts every $50 more that you
have to pay hurts.
Bill Madison (13:01):
Well, and I use the reference, every consumer is
the CEO of their household. Youthink about it from that
perspective, and to your pointYS, they're trying to control
how they're operating, theirfunding, and what they can
afford and not afford. You havethis thing that's mandatory
(13:22):
called insurance. If you have amortgage on your home, you have
to have insurance. If you own acar, you have to have insurance.
So you sign anything you can runaway from. When the cost of this
continues to go up, somethingelse has to give.
YS Chi (13:36):
Yeah, exactly. But I think that people, just general
consumers, understanding thisbig picture is not an easy
thing. Even someone like me,who's been insuring cars for a
long time, does not understandthe entire dynamics that you
just explained. So, veryhelpful.
Bill Madison (13:55):
Yeah, and just to add to that real quick. It
really goes back to theeducation side. One of the
things that during this wholeprocess just described, you have
more and more states, as we wentinto 21 that was questioning the
use of data, data for good,associated with it. And over the
(14:17):
course of 21 we decided that wereally needed to get proactive
and create an education team.
That's what we did. Our teaminternally, what they do is they
work with regulators, they workwith the insurance carriers.
They work with insurance trades,really to help everybody
collectively understand how datais being utilised. Now, it's a
(14:37):
benefit for consumers. Now thenext part of this journey is,
can we get more proactive inworking with consumer groups?
That's what we're designing aswe speak, to take a position of
education. As an example, thatstory I just walked through,
what happened during thepandemic and why insurance
carriers are having to raiserates. To your point a second
(15:00):
ago, because the averageconsumer doesn't understand
that. Can we actually help theindustry in telling that story?
YS Chi (15:10):
It does appear that a shock in the system like the
pandemic has kind of made thisnot ordinary. Now Bill, is this
going to last, or is this just ahiccup?
Bill Madison (15:22):
Well, sitting back in 2020 I don't think anybody
would have anticipated or guessthat we would still be dealing
with this challenge in 2025. Buthere we are.
YS Chi (15:35):
Yeah.
Bill Madison (15:36):
I think we still have a period of transition,
I'll use that word again, andwhat the industry is going
through because of the lack ofconsistency in terms of where
carriers are from a growthperspective, from a rate
perspective, and how they'regoing to advance in the markets
(16:02):
that they're going in. And thenon top of it all, you have
things like the California firesthat come into play. Does that
create a new challenge for manycarriers across the market? It
does. You have the hurricaneactivity across the southeast
and especially in the state ofFlorida, does that impact
things? It does. To the extentwe really don't know. No one has
(16:30):
a crystal ball in terms of thelong term impact, because, in a
weird way, there's always achallenge to deal with. Then the
question becomes the severity ofthe challenge itself.
YS Chi (16:43):
So, it seems like you have been helping these
insurance companies provide thebest, most accurate pricing by
giving them the drivers data sothat there's no froth on top of
the premium, or they lose theirshirt by underestimating the
risk. What kind of data do yougive them to be able to help
(17:08):
them make better decision?
Bill Madison (17:09):
Yeah, so it's multiple data sets, that goes
YS Chi (17:10):
So if I could take a little risk here and ask you a
into the evaluation of a risk.
You mentioned AI earlier in theconversation. We have really
focused in the market ondelivering decisions. Think
about that. Over my career, wequestion in, say, comparison to
food. Giving data, raw data isalways had the ability to
deliver content and say, "Allright, here's a view on YS. You
(17:32):
know, grab it, incorporate itinto your system, and good
luck." Okay, we took a moreproactive position of saying,
"Okay, how can we help you, asan insurance carrier, ingest the
intelligence that we havelike providing just raw grocery.
If you give them well structuredassociated with it? How do we
(17:52):
help you evaluate columns ofknowledge about the risk itself
and make an informed decisionassociated with it?" We've been
very focused on deliveringdecisions. Think about that. The
difference between deliveringand organised, it's like giving
things by selling in acontent and delivering
(18:13):
decisions. That's what we'vebeen focused on. Now, that
decision on the risk is lookedat by every carrier in a
different way. Based on theirprofiles and the type of risk
that they want to do, and gosupermarket, pre packaged and
nicely, cleaned up and all thatafter the actuarial side
associated with thatorganisation and their
(18:36):
activities really match to thestrategy of that company itself.
No two companies are exactlyalike. To the foundation of your
question YS, it's claim history.
stuff. But you're talking aboutactually giving them the recipe
The claim activity I've had inthe market is my coverage. Have
(18:57):
I had consistent coverage in themarket over a period of time. My
financial records. What doesthat say in terms of how I
performed financially in themarket? Is that predictive? The
and running that stuff, so thatit is actually mixed well
driver intelligence. It goes onand on, columns of data being
(19:18):
evaluated to have a decisionreported back to the carrier.
Again, as stated, so they canactually make an informed
decision on how they want tomove forward with me as a risk.
together, and some decision cancome out. It goes well beyond
Bill Madison (19:33):
Yeah, I think it's well put. It's very easy as an
raw data, structure data todecidable data. Have I used the
(20:12):
right analogy?
organisation to, and I use thephrase tossing data over the
wall, and say, good luck. But itreally comes down to working
(20:33):
with the industry, working withtheir analytics organisations on
what they're trying to achieveand helping them design the
combined recipe based on whatthey know, how they want to move
forward in combination with whatwe have. There's a lot of time
and energy associated with that.
We don't have a separateconsulting practice, but we do
(20:56):
consult in a way to really onthe market conditions, where the
market is, and how they can bestutilise our data assess to stay
in a very solid position withinthe market that they're serving.
YS Chi (21:14):
Yeah, I don't think that you need a separate consulting
service because everything youdo in analysing the data with
your customer is, in itself,consulting, right?
Bill Madison (21:25):
That's fair, that's a proper way to look at
it. You're exactly right.
YS Chi (21:29):
I think it's incredible that you have built that kind of
stuff, and that means, should Isay you are trusted by the
insurance companies that youserve?
Bill Madison (21:38):
Yeah and I tell you, that is such an important
identification there. What youjust went through, is trust. I
think the success of anyorganisation starts with that. A
lot of what we do for theindustry is through what we call
contributory data assets. Wherethe industry I use to claim
(22:02):
history as a great example.
Where we have a high, high, highpercentage of the market giving
us daily, in some cases weekly,updates on their claim history.
That we consolidate as anoffering that's used as a
consumer shops the marketplace,to understand their claim
(22:26):
history over x period of time.
But you think about the trustthat we've had to create over
the years for the carrier to,carriers, to contribute that
information to us. Without thatlevel of trust, we really
wouldn't have a business.
YS Chi (22:47):
Now is there the same trust from the consumers to the
insurance businesses?
Bill Madison (22:52):
Unfortunately, not. I think it's a role that
collectively, we all need toplay. I just mentioned a second
ago on the education side, whatwe're doing as an organisation,
how we're leaning into thatchallenge. To really talk about
the fundamentals of insurance.
The fundamentals of data and whythis is good for consumers in
(23:17):
the market. But it goes rightback to that education
component. I don't think thatthere has been enough education.
There have been pockets of it,but we want to play a critical
role in helping everybodyunderstand the fundamentals of
the insurance process and thefundamentals of data. How data
(23:39):
is being utilised across notonly the insurance market, but
many markets.
YS Chi (23:47):
And as a third party, perhaps we can be more objective
and more comprehensive in thepicture we draw for the
consumers.
Bill Madison (23:57):
Yeah, and I think it's very important for us to
stay in connection with ourcustomer base, with the
industry, on what we're doingand why we're doing it, and
that's part of this journey thatwe're on together. It all comes
down to one word. And that oneword is transparency and for the
consumers, for the industry, forregulators, for the trades. You
(24:23):
think about our position rightnow, we really sit as the
centerpiece between what we dowith the insurance carriers,
what we do with law enforcement,what we do with the vehicle
manufacturers, associated withit. Can we actually collectively
tell that story across thesethree markets, and really bring
(24:47):
a consistent message ofeducation to these markets.
We're extremely excited aboutfirst of all, the role. We've
worked for literally decades toget to the position where we are
today. Now, how can we helpeverybody understand better?
YS Chi (25:05):
Yes, there's definitely a lot of education that's
required, and transparency helpseverybody trust each other. Can
I bring back to the point youwere making earlier about
people? It has been so importantin the years I've known you,
that you care so deeply aboutthe people that you work with.
(25:27):
Tell me why it means so much toyou. Did you always have this
kind of philosophy, or is thissomething you've developed over
the years, as you become sodependent on their great
performances?
Bill Madison (25:41):
Well, you learn by doing. My mom and dad always
YS Chi (25:41):
Well, numbers are important because they measure
looked at me and said, "you knowBill, you're one of these
individuals that always has tolearn the hard way." A lot of it
goes back to the early days ofbeing affiliated with
organisations where culturewasn't the centerpiece, and you
(26:05):
saw in some cases, where culturewas created out of fear. Which
you never want within anorganisation, and where
knowledge wasn't shared becauseindividuals felt as if when they
managed data, when they managedthe intelligence affiliated with
(26:27):
where they sat within thebusiness and did not share
knowledge. They felt as if theywere in better control of their
destiny. I'm thinking to myself,this goes back years ago. I that
is so wrong. Everybody can learnfrom the knowledge that, that
(26:48):
individual has, and if they'rewilling to share it, how we
could all benefit from it. WhenI got to a position of really
being a leader, where you couldactually influence culture, it's
one of the first things I did.
And really started to design theorganisation with the knowledge
(27:10):
of the importance of sharedknowledge. Eventually we
migrated or evolved that sharedknowledge culture to a purpose
driven culture. I'm telling you,how that has served the
organisation. I can't be moreproud of that. Part of my, early
(27:31):
part of my career, I was sofocused on the numbers. You're
always focused on the numbersfor us, right?
being a business leader. Thenyou start to realise, well, it's
kind of about the people and thenumbers. Now, I'm probably more
(27:52):
so focused on the people,because you really start to
really understand the impact theright people in the right roles,
believing in a purpose drivenorganisation and acting as one
team, what it really means tothe success of the organisation
Bill Madison (28:13):
Yes.
YS Chi (28:14):
They measure for us and it gives us an assessment as to
moving forward.
how well we're doing, but thatis not the purpose. When you do
well, it can stay that way. Oneof the things that I really,
really, deeply admire about youis just how you can do that
continuously. You just don'tstop innovating. You don't stop
(28:38):
growing people, growingrelationship with your
customers. Tell me the secret,please.
Bill Madison (28:45):
Well, thanks for that. Just again, not being
complacent, right? I just, Ifeel like me personally, I owe
it to the organisation. I owe itto our employees. I owe it to
the market, our customer base.
First of all, to advance theirpersonal strategies. Whether
it's an employee, to continue tohave the lens of advancement and
(29:09):
being able to support them. Allthe way through our customers
and their strategies, I justthink is so critical. I do put a
lot into my role, and I wouldn'tdo it if I didn't love it. I
love our customers. I love thepeople that are affiliated with
the business. I love what we'redoing. I get asked a question
(29:32):
all the time, why are you stillhere? It's because of that. It's
because of the influence thatwe've had over this incredible
market over the years, and howwe have helped the industry
advance and continue to improve.
(29:53):
It's extremely exciting for me,and so that's, as a leader of
this business and having theprivilege of sitting in the seat
doing that, I feel as if I oweit to all involved parties to do
what I just described.
YS Chi (30:11):
Well, I could be on this with you for hours to get more
wisdom squeezed out of you, butI have to say your obsession in
terms of understanding customer.
Using data, always using data,and with, all these technology
that you've been unafraid toapply. Then doing that all under
(30:32):
the culture of this sharing oneteam, I think you've done
greatly well to be a billiondollar Bill.
Bill Madison (30:46):
Well, I've had a great support network and
thanks. Thanks, all the thanksgoes to you guys for leaning in
and helping us get to where weare today.
YS Chi (30:57):
Well, thank you so much for joining us Bill, and giving
us some of that insight. We lookforward to you continuing to
innovate and hearing abouteverything from more and
sophisticated data, to educatingand creating even better
culture. Thank you so muchtoday.
Bill Madison (31:17):
Thank you, YS.
YS Chi (31:19):
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Don't
forget to hit subscribe on yourpodcast app to get new episodes
as soon as they're released, andthank you for listening, please
stay well.
The Unique Contributions podcast is brought to you by
RELX. Find out more about us byvisiting relx.com.
Bill Madison (00:10):
How do we help you evaluate columns of knowledge
about the risk itself and makean informed decision associated
with it? We've been very focusedon delivering decisions.
YS Chi (00:41):
Hello and welcome to our podcast. Today, we dive into the
world of insurance, an industrythat touches every aspect of our
lives and protects what we valuemost. Since the pandemic, most
of us have seen our insurancepremiums increase pretty much
across the board. Some Americanstates have seen property
insurers exit from the marketaltogether. I'd like to
(01:02):
understand why this ishappening. Is this an industry
in crisis? What will thesolutions look like? My guest
today is Bill Madison, CEO ofour insurance business,
LexisNexis Risk Solutions. Ourbusiness headquartered in
Alpharetta, Georgia, providesanalytics and decisions tools
for insurance companies. Bill,welcome.
Bill Madison (01:24):
Hey YS, thanks for having me.
YS Chi (01:27):
Thank you so much for making the time for this. Bill,
we know, you've been at thiscompany for 36 years, but before
we talk about that, how about asmall introduction from you
about yourself.
Bill Madison (01:40):
Well, to your point, over 36 years has been
quite a journey on many fronts.
In the early days, was part of astartup. We're based in
Charlotte, North Carolina,really defining a problem within
the insurance industry itself.
(02:01):
We created a solution to addressthe problem. The problem was
hidden drivers and helping theindustry to identify hidden risk
within their portfolio, we gotextremely focused on that. Went
through the market, reallyhelping the industry implement
(02:23):
that solution across the market.
We got acquired, and then,really advanced through that
solution to the position where Iam today. After we got acquired,
I went into sales and theneventually became the CEO of the
insurance division within RELX.
(02:46):
So, it's been quite a journey.
Today, I'm married, live inAlpharetta, Georgia. Have two
sons, two young men. It's hardto believe how quickly they've
grown both personally andprofessionally. They're doing
well. It's been quite a journeywithin itself, very exciting.
YS Chi (03:09):
Yeah, very exciting and I'm going to eventually get to
this, but to say that you wereactually defining of a problem
to solve, and it was abouthidden drivers and hidden risk
from them, right?
Bill Madison (03:21):
Yeah, that's it.
YS Chi (03:22):
All of that was well before the days when we talk
about AI, let alone dataanalytics or even big data. How
did you think about that?
Bill Madison (03:32):
Yes, it's funny when you really step back and
look at most startups, theinitial offering was a failure,
to be brutally honest with you.
We really focused on the basiccomponents of capturing mileage
intelligence and doing thesimple math between the point A
and point B, and in determininghow many miles you drove as a
(03:56):
consumer over the course of theyear. Sounds very simple, which
it was. Sounds very exciting,which it was. The problem is the
early days of computing, whenthe inspection locations would
load this software on theirrecently acquired PC, back in
the day, they didn'tconsistently put the data
(04:18):
incorrectly within the softwarepackage. We had to step back and
we started to really engage withthe market, asking questions.
Basically came up with thisconcept, once we did some
research with availableinformation. Data assets by
state, could we acquire thedriver's license file within a
(04:42):
state? That's what we did. Wherewas available, we went and
acquired all the licensed driverinformation within a given
state. We developed a programmethat could actually take an
insurance carrier's book ofbusiness within that state.
Compare it, match it to ourdatabase, and let's say there's
a policy out there that hasthree cars, vehicles associated
(05:06):
with the policy, and twodrivers. We would match on the
address. We would identify thosetwo drivers being located at
that address, and if mom and dadforget to put licensed kids on
the policy. We would identifythose individuals that were in
(05:26):
the household at that locationwere reported back to the
insurance carrier. Then theinsurance carrier would reach
out to the policy owner and say,"Hey, I see you have, looks like
two kids, two of your kids thatare licensed within a household,
do they belong on, associatedwith one of the policies? Are
one of the vehicles on thepolicy?" That's what we did.
(05:48):
Again, a very simple concept ofacquiring information, matching
it, reporting back to thecarriers, and then allowing the
carriers to actually get thepremiums associated with the
risk. That's what we did, andit's still all these years
later, is still a very viablesolution that the insurance
(06:11):
industry uses today.
YS Chi (06:14):
So from that little thing, that little curiosity and
piecing together the puzzles toyour current nickname, billion
dollar Bill.
Bill Madison (06:28):
That's too funny.
YS Chi (06:29):
Oh, wow. Don't think it's funny at all. It's very
respectful Bill. That you buildthis business into a billion
dollar business. Tell us alittle more secrets.
Bill Madison (06:40):
Well, the secrets are really all about the people.
YS Chi (06:43):
You always say that.
Bill Madison (06:44):
Well, I know, but it's a truth. It really is a
truth. I look at myself as aspoke in a massive wheel, and
the wheel actually turns becauseof all the spokes working
together. All the people, theknowledge that we've created.
We're very focused on theculture of the business itself
(07:06):
being decisive, owning outcomesand acting as one team, and
that's what we do. The otherside of it is we have an
incredible market that we'reworking with today. The
insurance industry, justabsolutely incredible. You
identified it in your openingwhen you said, what the
insurance industry does, itkeeps us safe. And when you
(07:31):
start to look at thefundamentals of insurance
carriers and what they do andsome of the challenges they
have, they work with us to makeus better and to create new
solutions that are prominentthroughout the industry today.
We spent a lot of time on that.
YS Chi (07:52):
Yeah, let's start talking about that at current
time, okay. Insurance rates havegone up. I think we've all felt
that in the US, especially.
Whether it's car insurance orboat or home or any property
insurance has gone up. Whatwould you say are the
fundamental reasons behind thishappening?
Bill Madison (08:12):
Let's go back four or five years, right to the
beginning of the pandemic andwhat happened during 2020. That
was really the cornerstone ofsome of the challenges that
we're dealing with today, acrossthe market. If you think about
it, when March of 2020, hit,consumers stopped driving.
YS Chi (08:36):
That's right.
Bill Madison (08:37):
The vehicles stayed parked in their garage or
their driveways, because peoplejust weren't moving around. They
weren't connecting, they weren'tgoing into the office, they
weren't really exposingthemselves as a risk to the
insurance industry. As a resultof that, there were a lot of
consumer groups that werestarting to question as to, why
(09:02):
are we paying for our autoinsurance premiums, when we're
not driving the car? For theaverage person, it's a fair
question to ask, but it iscomplicated in a lot of ways.
What happened as a result ofthat event, and people are not
driving. Guess what's happening?
They're not following claimseither, because they're not
(09:24):
having accidents. The industryis starting to make pretty
significant profits over thecourse of the year. As a result
of that, the departments ofinsurance were getting involved.
Some of the consumer groups weregetting involved, and they're
saying, "okay, so shouldn't yoube doing something here?" That's
exactly what the insuranceindustry did. Started giving
(09:46):
rebates, started dropping rates,just to kind of stay in front of
the event itself, but alsobecause they were making a lot
of money. So, 21 hits, what didpeople, the average consumer
started doing?
YS Chi (10:01):
Coming back out with vengeance.
Bill Madison (10:03):
Amen. So, they start driving. When people are
driving, what are they having?
They're having accidents. Nowthe carriers are saying, "oh,
man, this came on a lot fasterthan we anticipated." With the
increase in driving activity,the carriers say, I'm starting
to be more challenged andstarting to lose money. Now we
(10:25):
got to fall for right rateincreases. So, working with the
departments of insurance acrossUnited States. Basically they
were trying to get rate to coverthe risk, and they just they
couldn't get enough rate tocover the, some of the
challenges that they weredealing with. That process
really continued over the courseof 21, 22 and a big part of 23
(10:50):
as well. As rates were going up,there's a state out there on the
west coast that over a tierperiod, 23 and 24 the average
rates within the state went up41%.
YS Chi (11:07):
Oh my goodness.
Bill Madison (11:08):
Yeah, incredible.
YS Chi (11:10):
During that time Bill, did the insurance companies
regain the profitability? Arethey making too much money right
now, or are they covering costof repairs and all the other
stuff that has also gone up?
Bill Madison (11:22):
Yeah, well, they're just starting to get to
a point of profitability afterall this time.
YS Chi (11:28):
My goodness.
Bill Madison (11:29):
It's been quite a challenge for them. You look at
labour costs, you look at partscosts associated with it, and
the challenges that they hadover this period of time.
They've been trying to get backto a point of profitability.
Some people are saying, is themarket at a challenging point. I
(11:54):
wouldn't really identify as a,really a challenging point.
They're at a point of transitionright now. You have some
carriers that are just gettingback to a point of
profitability, where they'restarting to get focused on
growth again, which isinteresting. They have other
carriers that are stillchallenged and still trying to
(12:15):
get rate increases approvedthrough the departments of
insurance. You have a lot oftransition activities that are
not consistent across themarket.
YS Chi (12:25):
It seems like the insurance business has that
delay because of the regulatorsthat have to approve the rates
each time.
Bill Madison (12:32):
Yes and that's a big impact on it. One, they've
got to prove it right. Theyreally need the rates, and then
the regulators are there toprotect consumers,
YS Chi (12:43):
Yes.
Bill Madison (12:43):
Right, making sure the consumers aren't overly
penalised based on any activityacross the markets that are in
play here.
YS Chi (12:53):
Yeah, yet as consumers, it hurts every $50 more that you
have to pay hurts.
Bill Madison (13:01):
Well, and I use the reference, every consumer is
the CEO of their household. Youthink about it from that
perspective, and to your pointYS, they're trying to control
how they're operating, theirfunding, and what they can
afford and not afford. You havethis thing that's mandatory
(13:22):
called insurance. If you have amortgage on your home, you have
to have insurance. If you own acar, you have to have insurance.
So you sign anything you can runaway from. When the cost of this
continues to go up, somethingelse has to give.
YS Chi (13:36):
Yeah, exactly. But I think that people, just general
consumers, understanding thisbig picture is not an easy
thing. Even someone like me,who's been insuring cars for a
long time, does not understandthe entire dynamics that you
just explained. So, veryhelpful.
Bill Madison (13:55):
Yeah, and just to add to that real quick. It
really goes back to theeducation side. One of the
things that during this wholeprocess just described, you have
more and more states, as we wentinto 21 that was questioning the
use of data, data for good,associated with it. And over the
(14:17):
course of 21 we decided that wereally needed to get proactive
and create an education team.
That's what we did. Our teaminternally, what they do is they
work with regulators, they workwith the insurance carriers.
They work with insurance trades,really to help everybody
collectively understand how datais being utilised. Now, it's a
(14:37):
benefit for consumers. Now thenext part of this journey is,
can we get more proactive inworking with consumer groups?
That's what we're designing aswe speak, to take a position of
education. As an example, thatstory I just walked through,
what happened during thepandemic and why insurance
carriers are having to raiserates. To your point a second
(15:00):
ago, because the averageconsumer doesn't understand
that. Can we actually help theindustry in telling that story?
YS Chi (15:10):
It does appear that a shock in the system like the
pandemic has kind of made thisnot ordinary. Now Bill, is this
going to last, or is this just ahiccup?
Bill Madison (15:22):
Well, sitting back in 2020 I don't think anybody
would have anticipated or guessthat we would still be dealing
with this challenge in 2025. Buthere we are.
YS Chi (15:35):
Yeah.
Bill Madison (15:36):
I think we still have a period of transition,
I'll use that word again, andwhat the industry is going
through because of the lack ofconsistency in terms of where
carriers are from a growthperspective, from a rate
perspective, and how they'regoing to advance in the markets
(16:02):
that they're going in. And thenon top of it all, you have
things like the California firesthat come into play. Does that
create a new challenge for manycarriers across the market? It
does. You have the hurricaneactivity across the southeast
and especially in the state ofFlorida, does that impact
things? It does. To the extentwe really don't know. No one has
(16:30):
a crystal ball in terms of thelong term impact, because, in a
weird way, there's always achallenge to deal with. Then the
question becomes the severity ofthe challenge itself.
YS Chi (16:43):
So, it seems like you have been helping these
insurance companies provide thebest, most accurate pricing by
giving them the drivers data sothat there's no froth on top of
the premium, or they lose theirshirt by underestimating the
risk. What kind of data do yougive them to be able to help
(17:08):
them make better decision?
Bill Madison (17:09):
Yeah, so it's multiple data sets, that goes
YS Chi (17:10):
So if I could take a little risk here and ask you a
into the evaluation of a risk.
You mentioned AI earlier in theconversation. We have really
focused in the market ondelivering decisions. Think
about that. Over my career, wequestion in, say, comparison to
food. Giving data, raw data isalways had the ability to
deliver content and say, "Allright, here's a view on YS. You
(17:32):
know, grab it, incorporate itinto your system, and good
luck." Okay, we took a moreproactive position of saying,
"Okay, how can we help you, asan insurance carrier, ingest the
intelligence that we havelike providing just raw grocery.
If you give them well structuredassociated with it? How do we
(17:52):
help you evaluate columns ofknowledge about the risk itself
and make an informed decisionassociated with it?" We've been
very focused on deliveringdecisions. Think about that. The
difference between deliveringand organised, it's like giving
things by selling in acontent and delivering
(18:13):
decisions. That's what we'vebeen focused on. Now, that
decision on the risk is lookedat by every carrier in a
different way. Based on theirprofiles and the type of risk
that they want to do, and gosupermarket, pre packaged and
nicely, cleaned up and all thatafter the actuarial side
associated with thatorganisation and their
(18:36):
activities really match to thestrategy of that company itself.
No two companies are exactlyalike. To the foundation of your
question YS, it's claim history.
stuff. But you're talking aboutactually giving them the recipe
The claim activity I've had inthe market is my coverage. Have
(18:57):
I had consistent coverage in themarket over a period of time. My
financial records. What doesthat say in terms of how I
performed financially in themarket? Is that predictive? The
and running that stuff, so thatit is actually mixed well
driver intelligence. It goes onand on, columns of data being
(19:18):
evaluated to have a decisionreported back to the carrier.
Again, as stated, so they canactually make an informed
decision on how they want tomove forward with me as a risk.
together, and some decision cancome out. It goes well beyond
Bill Madison (19:33):
Yeah, I think it's well put. It's very easy as an
raw data, structure data todecidable data. Have I used the
(20:12):
right analogy?
organisation to, and I use thephrase tossing data over the
wall, and say, good luck. But itreally comes down to working
(20:33):
with the industry, working withtheir analytics organisations on
what they're trying to achieveand helping them design the
combined recipe based on whatthey know, how they want to move
forward in combination with whatwe have. There's a lot of time
and energy associated with that.
We don't have a separateconsulting practice, but we do
(20:56):
consult in a way to really onthe market conditions, where the
market is, and how they can bestutilise our data assess to stay
in a very solid position withinthe market that they're serving.
YS Chi (21:14):
Yeah, I don't think that you need a separate consulting
service because everything youdo in analysing the data with
your customer is, in itself,consulting, right?
Bill Madison (21:25):
That's fair, that's a proper way to look at
it. You're exactly right.
YS Chi (21:29):
I think it's incredible that you have built that kind of
stuff, and that means, should Isay you are trusted by the
insurance companies that youserve?
Bill Madison (21:38):
Yeah and I tell you, that is such an important
identification there. What youjust went through, is trust. I
think the success of anyorganisation starts with that. A
lot of what we do for theindustry is through what we call
contributory data assets. Wherethe industry I use to claim
(22:02):
history as a great example.
Where we have a high, high, highpercentage of the market giving
us daily, in some cases weekly,updates on their claim history.
That we consolidate as anoffering that's used as a
consumer shops the marketplace,to understand their claim
(22:26):
history over x period of time.
But you think about the trustthat we've had to create over
the years for the carrier to,carriers, to contribute that
information to us. Without thatlevel of trust, we really
wouldn't have a business.
YS Chi (22:47):
Now is there the same trust from the consumers to the
insurance businesses?
Bill Madison (22:52):
Unfortunately, not. I think it's a role that
collectively, we all need toplay. I just mentioned a second
ago on the education side, whatwe're doing as an organisation,
how we're leaning into thatchallenge. To really talk about
the fundamentals of insurance.
The fundamentals of data and whythis is good for consumers in
(23:17):
the market. But it goes rightback to that education
component. I don't think thatthere has been enough education.
There have been pockets of it,but we want to play a critical
role in helping everybodyunderstand the fundamentals of
the insurance process and thefundamentals of data. How data
(23:39):
is being utilised across notonly the insurance market, but
many markets.
YS Chi (23:47):
And as a third party, perhaps we can be more objective
and more comprehensive in thepicture we draw for the
consumers.
Bill Madison (23:57):
Yeah, and I think it's very important for us to
stay in connection with ourcustomer base, with the
industry, on what we're doingand why we're doing it, and
that's part of this journey thatwe're on together. It all comes
down to one word. And that oneword is transparency and for the
consumers, for the industry, forregulators, for the trades. You
(24:23):
think about our position rightnow, we really sit as the
centerpiece between what we dowith the insurance carriers,
what we do with law enforcement,what we do with the vehicle
manufacturers, associated withit. Can we actually collectively
tell that story across thesethree markets, and really bring
(24:47):
a consistent message ofeducation to these markets.
We're extremely excited aboutfirst of all, the role. We've
worked for literally decades toget to the position where we are
today. Now, how can we helpeverybody understand better?
YS Chi (25:05):
Yes, there's definitely a lot of education that's
required, and transparency helpseverybody trust each other. Can
I bring back to the point youwere making earlier about
people? It has been so importantin the years I've known you,
that you care so deeply aboutthe people that you work with.
(25:27):
Tell me why it means so much toyou. Did you always have this
kind of philosophy, or is thissomething you've developed over
the years, as you become sodependent on their great
performances?
Bill Madison (25:41):
Well, you learn by doing. My mom and dad always
YS Chi (25:41):
Well, numbers are important because they measure
looked at me and said, "you knowBill, you're one of these
individuals that always has tolearn the hard way." A lot of it
goes back to the early days ofbeing affiliated with
organisations where culturewasn't the centerpiece, and you
(26:05):
saw in some cases, where culturewas created out of fear. Which
you never want within anorganisation, and where
knowledge wasn't shared becauseindividuals felt as if when they
managed data, when they managedthe intelligence affiliated with
(26:27):
where they sat within thebusiness and did not share
knowledge. They felt as if theywere in better control of their
destiny. I'm thinking to myself,this goes back years ago. I that
is so wrong. Everybody can learnfrom the knowledge that, that
(26:48):
individual has, and if they'rewilling to share it, how we
could all benefit from it. WhenI got to a position of really
being a leader, where you couldactually influence culture, it's
one of the first things I did.
And really started to design theorganisation with the knowledge
(27:10):
of the importance of sharedknowledge. Eventually we
migrated or evolved that sharedknowledge culture to a purpose
driven culture. I'm telling you,how that has served the
organisation. I can't be moreproud of that. Part of my, early
(27:31):
part of my career, I was sofocused on the numbers. You're
always focused on the numbersfor us, right?
being a business leader. Thenyou start to realise, well, it's
kind of about the people and thenumbers. Now, I'm probably more
(27:52):
so focused on the people,because you really start to
really understand the impact theright people in the right roles,
believing in a purpose drivenorganisation and acting as one
team, what it really means tothe success of the organisation
Bill Madison (28:13):
Yes.
YS Chi (28:14):
They measure for us and it gives us an assessment as to
moving forward.
how well we're doing, but thatis not the purpose. When you do
well, it can stay that way. Oneof the things that I really,
really, deeply admire about youis just how you can do that
continuously. You just don'tstop innovating. You don't stop
(28:38):
growing people, growingrelationship with your
customers. Tell me the secret,please.
Bill Madison (28:45):
Well, thanks for that. Just again, not being
complacent, right? I just, Ifeel like me personally, I owe
it to the organisation. I owe itto our employees. I owe it to
the market, our customer base.
First of all, to advance theirpersonal strategies. Whether
it's an employee, to continue tohave the lens of advancement and
(29:09):
being able to support them. Allthe way through our customers
and their strategies, I justthink is so critical. I do put a
lot into my role, and I wouldn'tdo it if I didn't love it. I
love our customers. I love thepeople that are affiliated with
the business. I love what we'redoing. I get asked a question
(29:32):
all the time, why are you stillhere? It's because of that. It's
because of the influence thatwe've had over this incredible
market over the years, and howwe have helped the industry
advance and continue to improve.
(29:53):
It's extremely exciting for me,and so that's, as a leader of
this business and having theprivilege of sitting in the seat
doing that, I feel as if I oweit to all involved parties to do
what I just described.
YS Chi (30:11):
Well, I could be on this with you for hours to get more
wisdom squeezed out of you, butI have to say your obsession in
terms of understanding customer.
Using data, always using data,and with, all these technology
that you've been unafraid toapply. Then doing that all under
(30:32):
the culture of this sharing oneteam, I think you've done
greatly well to be a billiondollar Bill.
Bill Madison (30:46):
Well, I've had a great support network and
thanks. Thanks, all the thanksgoes to you guys for leaning in
and helping us get to where weare today.
YS Chi (30:57):
Well, thank you so much for joining us Bill, and giving
us some of that insight. We lookforward to you continuing to
innovate and hearing abouteverything from more and
sophisticated data, to educatingand creating even better
culture. Thank you so muchtoday.
Bill Madison (31:17):
Thank you, YS.
YS Chi (31:19):
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Don't
forget to hit subscribe on yourpodcast app to get new episodes
as soon as they're released, andthank you for listening, please
stay well.
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