November 2, 2025 • 60 mins
Starvation isn’t a metaphor—it’s policy made real. Erika and I sit down on Halloween. A holiday that is ironically about asking for snacks from strangers. We map how a government shutdown can remove the barely sustainable payment rails for SNAP, why many families get far less than a livable food budget, and how the benefits cliff punishes a $1 raise with thousands lost in childcare, healthcare, and food support. The math doesn’t lie, and neither do checkout lines when EBT systems fail. We break down the myths about “living off the system,” explain refeeding syndrome as a medical reality, and show why feeding people is both humane and fiscally smart.
From corporate welfare to the war economy, we follow the money that protects weapons over breakfasts and how retailers profit twice: underpaying workers who need benefits, then capturing those benefits at the register. Farmers are squeezed, small producers risk losing land, and shelters brace for pet surrenders as families choose between kibble and groceries. Through it all, we keep the focus on what works now: food banks with bulk buying power, mutual aid fridges that cut red tape, recurring micro-donations, and practical ways to add pet food to your giving so people can keep the companions that support their mental health.
We also honor Dr. Muath, a veterinarian in Gaza who cared for companion animals and working donkeys amid bombardment. His story reveals the human thread that ties war, hunger, and courage together—and why empathy should guide policy, not just sentiment. If you’re ready to replace outrage with action, this conversation offers clarity, context, and a path forward: fund your local pantry, support mutual aid, challenge casual classism, and push leaders to treat nutrition like the public infrastructure it is. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review telling us how you’re supporting food access in your community.
Help Dr. Muath | Animal Healthcare Workers Against Genocide
Arizona politicians respond to possible lapse in SNAP benefits | 12news.com
findhelp.org by findhelp - Search and Connect to Social Care
Arizona refugees to lose SNAP eligibility in November - AZPM
Tempe sued for targeting residents who feed homeless
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
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License code: S4CEQWLNQXVZUMU4
Artwork and logo design by Misty Rae.
Special thanks to Joanna Roux for editing help.
Special thanks to the listeners and all the wonderful people who helped listen to and provide feedback on the episode's prerelease.
Please feel free to email Matt topics or suggestions, questions or feedback.
Matt@unitedstatesofPTSD.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
This podcast is not intended to serve as therapeutic
advice or to replace anyprofessional treatment.
These opinions belong to us anddo not reflect any company or
agency.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another
episode of the United States ofPTSD, and happy Halloween to
everybody as well.
Today, Eric and I are recordingon Halloween, so hopefully it'll
be out within a day ofHalloween.
Eric and I have a lot of thingsto talk about, but today we have
decided to start off withsomething that's really
important, which is thegovernment shutdown and how it
(00:49):
is impacting food insecurity forthe large majority of the
country and what this lookslike.
Erica, what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
As a background context, food security is
literally the reason I became aveterinarian.
It's also the reason why I wentthrough a combined degree
program that was 10 years of mylife.
That the person, the director ofthat program before I signed on,
(01:19):
was like, are you prepared?
Because it's likepsychologically hard.
And I did that.
And it was bad.
And we had fallout from ourprogram.
And it we can talk later.
We'll have another conversationabout the mental health
compromises that our academicinstitutions engage in in the
(01:40):
extractivism that's related toour biomedical sciences programs
and PhD programs in general.
But I did that and I made thatsacrifice at great cost in order
to have a engage in foodsecurity and concepts of food
sovereignty.
And that that's because I grewup with stories of starvation
(02:02):
post-World War II.
My grandmother, who in part, mygrandmother in in Germany, who
comes from a region of Germanythat um no longer exists, that
they were ethnically cleansedfrom that region, is a refugee
time and was displaced twicebecause they also had to escape
the East German Gestapo.
(02:24):
And so I grew up with stories ofstarvation, of stories about
where the food that you have isthe ones that you pick up off
the side of the road, thecabbages that fall out of
trucks.
I grew up watching and learningfrom somebody with deep, deep
trauma around food insecurityand was shaped by it my entire
(02:48):
life, seeing people beinghungry.
And as a medical professional,as a veterinary medical
professional, veterinary medicalprofessionals encounter what
starvation does to animals.
So, like we have starvation inour literal everyday practice
because we experience animalsthat are coming from neglect, or
(03:11):
even just animals that have beenabandoned that try and survive
as they can off of what they canto take animals through
recovery.
So this is something that Ibelieve maybe we've talked about
before, or just the process ofrefeeding syndrome as far.
SPEAKER_03 (03:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yeah.
And so as far as there is aclinical process that needs to
happen when the body has been instarvation mode for a very long
time.
If you just start feedingpeople, and we understand this,
and we discovered this due tothe Nazi concentration camps
that the the Allied soldierscame across when they were
trying to like they wereencountering, there were so many
(03:50):
people that were starved andkilled and gassed before it was
mostly only Jewish peoplebecause everyone else had been
killed, and also like queerpeople in these concentration
camps that were that were skinand bones, right?
And then they they startedfeeding people and they didn't
know, and a bunch of peopledied, you know, right?
(04:10):
Because it causes seizures, itcauses it causes death if you do
not do a very deliberateprocess.
SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Erica, before we before we get down there, I mean
all that is really important,but I want to get some of the
basics for people who are arelistening.
So one of the I want to clear upone of the misconceptions that a
lot of people in this countryhave that people live off the
the food stamp system andthey're manipulating the system
because this is the narrativethat a lot of people are
spinning.
And I have to tell you, it comesfrom both sides.
(04:40):
I saw somebody posting todaythat it's all the MAGA people,
but the reality is it comes fromboth sides.
I mean, living in a democraticstate, I think you live in a
Republican state where Arizona'srepublic or more of like it's
purple.
It's purple.
So we, you know, we live RhodeIsland has Rhode Island and
Connecticut have been ademocratic state for as long as
I can remember.
And we have this, we want tohelp it, but not in our backyard
(05:02):
mentality, right?
So there's this constant, wewant to address it because we
want to feel good aboutourselves, but we don't actually
want to fix it.
And that's it's on both sides ofit.
So I want to just throw up thescenario that I've used a few
times where uh, well, first ofall, let's start off by saying
the average person who is onSNAP benefits or gets food
assistance, they don't get asustainable amount of money to
(05:23):
begin with.
I mean, we are talking aboutpeople who get like$100 a month
if that.
And then if you're talking aboutpeople with uh, you know, like
multiple children, I knowsomebody that has three children
and one of them is a specialneeds child, then they get about
$400 a month.
Now, first of all, you can'tsurvive off$400 a month with
four kids.
You I mean, I as a singleperson, single person, I am
(05:46):
lucky if I can spend less thanfour or five hundred dollars a
month on food.
So like the fact that there'sthis narrative that people are
living off the system is justabsurd.
It's absolutely absurd to beginwith.
The the other absurd, you know,a narrative that people are
saying is what did you say,Erica?
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
That they're not working.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
Oh, that they're not working, right?
So I want so that's actuallywhere it was gonna go with this.
So I I worked with a woman for avery long time who made$11 an
hour.
Okay.
And this was way back in like Iwant to say like the early
2000s.
She made$11 an hour.
And because of that, she wasable to get food, food, um, food
(06:27):
like snap benefits, she was ableto get childcare subsidies, she
was able to get free health careand like low cost and all that
stuff.
So people see this as living offthe system.
Now, here's the problem.
If she were to make a dollarmore an hour, so now she's
making$12 an hour, and she wewent through the numbers and she
explained this to me.
The what she would gain once wetook in what it would then cost
(06:50):
her, because she would lose thechildcare subsidy, she would
lose the SNAP benefits, shewould lose the healthcare
insurance, she would have tostart pay uh paying co-pays,
would actually end up costingher$13,000 a year.
So by getting a raise, she's inthe negative.
SPEAKER_04 (07:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:06):
And people don't seem to understand that.
They have this perception.
Now, are there people out therethat abuse the system?
Of course there are.
There are people out there thatabuse every single system, but
they There are corporations whoare abusing systems.
That's a whole, yes, absolutely.
But they will take that oneperson that they see, and then
they use that as the, okay,well, this is the this is the
(07:28):
crux of what everybody's doing.
That's like such bullshit.
For I so I want to dispel thosenarratives right there.
The large majority of people whoare are getting food assistance
are people who are disabled, theelderly, people who are really
children, children, like and andchildren, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
And and and when you think about poverty, like I
think it's what 23, I thinkmaybe 25% of SNAP is like
dedicated to children and makingsure that children are fed.
SPEAKER_03 (07:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, so the interestingparallel, and there's part of me
that almost believes on somelevel it's a little bit of like
karmic justice.
I was having this umconversation with somebody the
other day that for two yearsnow, our country has been
funding the starvation of peoplein a different country.
And people like you and me havebeen calling attention to that
(08:20):
and saying, you know, this isthis is genocide, this is
horrible stuff that's happening,and all these people are
ignoring it because it wasn't ontheir doorstep.
And I also remember having manyconversations about saying this
will be on our doorstep at somepoint in time, and people just
ignored it and ignored it andignored it.
And now we're here.
(08:40):
Which is horrible.
But it when we allow it for onegroup of people, it becomes
normalized for other people.
And that's why we can't turn ablind eye to people being
starved in other countries,especially when we're funding
it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Well, like you think about where they are spending
money, right?
You have this the what'shappening to the White House as
far as Oh my god, the ballroom.
SPEAKER_03 (09:04):
Oh my god, don't even like I can't.
I can't.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
And like, like, and it's literally how much military
spending, right?
Not only military, but militaryfor um, like bombs to continue a
genocide, right?
Or um for government officialsto live on military uh housing,
right?
Christy Noam and a bunch ofthese people who are basically
(09:29):
they are getting uh welfare onour dollars, shall we say?
Yep, right?
The corporate subsidies wherecorporation corporate welfare,
right?
We'll put it corporate welfare.
Now, the thing about SNAP andsome of the money that goes to
fund SNAP, the reason why itbecame came to be in the first
place, because it actually savesmore money to feed people and
(09:54):
have adequate nutrition than tohave people who haven't received
adequate nutrition.
Because when you when and likethis is literally from my
perspective as veterinarymedicine, countries fall due to
not being able to have enoughfood access of their people.
Literally the reason for ArabSpring.
(10:17):
Yes, bread, inaccessibility ofbread.
SPEAKER_03 (10:21):
Right.
We have, but I I think, yes,Erica, the the problem is we
have the accessibility of food.
We do, we have it.
We could end it like tomorrow,we could end it right now if we
really wanted to, but that doesnot it's not in the best
interest of the powers that beto keep the people fed.
And oh go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
This is also why the Black Panthers were labeled as
were targeted by the FBI, it'sbecause they were feeding
people.
The free lunch program for kidsthat we had in schools comes
from the Black Panthers, whowere then like the leaders of
these organizations that werefeeding people were assassinated
(11:09):
by our state because they werefeeding people and providing
health care as far as communitysourcing that.
And the reason why it's targetedis because then people realize
that the way that the governmentis functioning in benefit, not
to the people, but tocorruption, and that is
(11:30):
threatening to people in power.
And so that the most radicalthings that people do is feeding
people.
Do you there were times wheremore food was able to go from
businesses who were like, Thisfood is going to expire?
And then we could also even havea whole conversation about Best
(11:52):
Buy dates, you know, those typesof things stamp on things that
are for the purpose of ofcreating dollars out of nothing.
And so this is part like, youknow, the snap benefits here and
how that's being affected andhow the weaponization of
literally food and main thingsthat are necessary for people,
(12:17):
because it's a war on poverty,right?
This is a war on the poor.
It's always been that, right?
It's always been the people inpower having a war on the poor,
but because it's not necessarilydirectly the bombing that it
used to be in the 70s of likeliterally firebombing blocks of
(12:37):
residential zones inPhiladelphia.
So you can look that one up ifyou a lot of people don't know
about.
unknown (12:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:43):
Because they don't teach that information in
school.
That is purposely kept away fromthe education system that we
have.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
And as a I think, Erica, in your I actually I
remembered an article, but Ilooked it up and it was in
Arizona.
I didn't realize this.
There was a woman that wasarrested for feeding the
homeless.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Well, we are actually engaged, that is
happening now, right?
So in they have they havetargeted people who are trying
to feed unsheltered people inTucson, in Tempe.
SPEAKER_03 (13:14):
They're trying to like basically make it illegal
to the the depravity, theseriously, the the moral
depravity that a country has tohave to make it against the law
to feed starving people isdisgusting.
(13:35):
You know, interestingly enough,I hate AI.
I mean, I I shouldn't say I hateit.
I think it does have good uses,but it a lot of it pisses me
off.
But somebody told me that youcan actually create a character
in AI.
So you could say, like, howwould so-and-so respond to this?
I, you know, I've I've made thisclear very time, many times.
I'm a pagan, I'm not Christian,but I swear to God, I'm more
(13:55):
Christian than most Christians.
So I typed in, what would Jesussay about a government that was
intentionally starving people?
And I said, please use biblicalreferences.
And of course, it says exactlywhat you and I would think it
would say.
It it comes up and it says, youknow, it talks about taking down
the government and like that,you know, you would never do
(14:17):
that.
Like you would feed the poor,like you would help the people.
And I I'm like thinking tomyself, how we call ourselves
this Christian nation.
And I know that we're we're not,but I mean people say that all
the time.
But this country does not havethe values of any country that
has empathy or compassion foranybody.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
It is I mean, like I'm I I wouldn't call myself a
Christian.
I'm definitely not.
I don't I don't know what likeI'm a I'm a Taoist Buddhist.
And and I I believe so if I wasto say I would be more the the
the Chinese version of theBible, because what they did is
(15:00):
they they replaced God withthou.
So so they made their own theyand so they're you know like
different can and this is thesame thing, you know, if you
look listen to like a ladysmithblack mamasa, right?
They are they're they are um achoir intergenerational choir
(15:21):
group that was instrumental toum was part of the creative
cultural movement that helpedend apartheid in South Africa.
So they were established beforeapartheid ended, and they they
say so.
I've had the opportunity to seethem performed twice, and they
they do a Christian faith-basedsinging, but it is their own, it
(15:45):
is their own interpretation ofthings, and so I think that that
is something that I think a lotabout as far as being a
first-generation American andalso understanding how
Christianity impacts immigrantcommunities and colonized
communities, and how becauseit's a religion and colonization
(16:06):
went hand in hand.
You know, Christianity andcolonization went hand in hand
and and was the cause of suchviolence.
Like we have like Indian SchoolRoad, and there's an Indian
school park.
It was the site of a boardingschool that was open until the
90s, where indigenous childrenwere being stolen from their
(16:27):
families and abused, and some ofit was under the guise of was
run by Christian and Catholicorganizations.
And there were babies, therewere babies in the ground,
right?
And there are traumatized peoplethat like I have a friend, I
have a friend whose mother wentthrough the boarding school
(16:50):
program, and it hasintergenerational effects.
And so the this kind of thingabout the weaponization of the
necessities of what is requiredfor or end to the
commodification of the thingsthat are required for human
survival, shelter, food, water.
SPEAKER_03 (17:08):
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
I mean, it's like it's likesuper basic.
unknown (17:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
You know what?
Also, Maslow's hierarchies ofneeds is cultural appropriation
from the Blackfoot Nation.
SPEAKER_03 (17:19):
Is it really?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
And it is um an incomplete assessment of
indigenous values.
So Maslow spent time with theBlackfoot Nation and took some
things and created Maslow'shierarchy of needs.
And it's actually incompletebecause Indigenous nations think
about cultural perpetuity ofmultiple generations rather than
(17:43):
individual things.
So this is like, and so that'sactually something that I talk
about frequently in when I givemental health talks.
When I used to be part of uh NotOne More Vet, you know, where we
start, where we started ourrelationship, actually.
SPEAKER_03 (17:57):
Yeah, which by the way was about a year ago.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Right.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
So happy anniversary.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
Yay! Yeah.
This is and it's and you know,and and you know, we talked
about how like when I was givingthat that interview that we did
about Namvi, I was like, I'm notgonna be on the board for very
long.
SPEAKER_03 (18:15):
Yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
Um, and this is also like relevant in some of these
things because you know, we'vebeen people who are talking
about the falling apart ofthings, right?
And how it was the it was gonnaboomerang back because
militarism will consumeeveryone.
And we have a war economy now.
(18:40):
So what we're experiencing inthe snap is just you know, USAID
with all of the flaws, so manyflaws, so many problems, so many
colonial issues that aredeserving of critique, and also
so much food, like criticalfood.
Like they're already, I don'teven know how many children have
(19:00):
starved because of Elon Musk'sdismantling of USAID.
SPEAKER_02 (19:05):
Elon Musk is so gross.
He really is.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
But like what so what we are about to experience
here is just a there's no relieffor international communities
where the US all of a sudden waslike, all right, all of these
very specific nutrition that isutilized for starving children
that are also starving becausethe US and other Western nations
(19:31):
have completely fuckingdisempowered those communities
from their own food sovereigntyand have also extracted and and
pillaged the natural resources.
And you can go into like and so,like, I want to also focus on
what is happening here and alsosay that it is linked with what
was happening out there and whatwe have done as a nation and
(19:56):
what we are complicit in asAmerican citizens that have
basically slept-walked throughour government, like raping,
pillaging, and bombing countriesaround the world on behalf of
corporations at times,especially if you look at the
global south.
We have to solve our ownproblems here as citizens so we
can talk about how like we willhave oh, I can send you some
(20:18):
links, like get involved in afood bank, get involved in
mutual aid.
Think about a mutual aid fridge,right?
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
The so I I agree with you, but uh to because I
mean, obviously, we have so manytopics, I just don't want to get
like so far out.
But with the my thing with the Iand I agree, food banks are
super important.
What I'm what I'm concerned, Iguess my not resistance, but my
cons my my thoughts on it isthat it's not fixing a problem.
(20:48):
And a lot of people, I mean, yousee, like around Christmas time,
right?
People will go volunteer at foodbanks because they want to feel
like they're doing somethinggreat and then they forget about
it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
So like if you call keep on doing it, past the
holidays.
SPEAKER_03 (20:59):
But if you were to call the food bank, they
oftentimes, if they're lookingfor volunteers, they don't want
them at the holidays becauseeverybody and their mother is
coming down at the holidaysbecause they want it, but
they're doing it, and I thinkthis is where I want to call
people out, is because they'redoing it for themselves.
They want to go out and feellike they're making a change.
So they go out and they dosomething and then they forget
(21:20):
about it for the rest of theyear.
You know, of course, food banksare great resources.
I think right now, though,particularly if we want to come
together as like a community orunity, you had brought up mutual
aid.
And I think we should be takingcare of each other, like
reaching out to people in ourcommunity and saying, like,
okay, how can we like shareresources so that I can help you
(21:44):
more than just overnight and Ican I can help you more than
just one meal.
And that you know, it goes backto the episode we did about
performative out or likeselective outrage, is it's so
performative.
And that's what I don't wantpeople to do.
I want people to go out and dothings to make changes and not
just make them feel better.
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
Uh I we could I I think that no matter what, there
will be performative.
Like and so we're not gonna getrid of it.
SPEAKER_04 (22:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:13):
There's there's there's a cat who's doing some
exploratory things.
Oh, I get that.
Um so I like we are in crisismode, theoretically,
potentially, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:28):
Oh, we are.
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
And um, what we are navigating is the fact that our
politicians and the politicalclass, which is an elitist
class, um has had a long timeleft to their own devices to
make war on the people.
(22:50):
And and this has been gettingworse and worse, right?
It's not selective, like yousaid, it's not a Democrat versus
a Republican issue, it is um acorruption issue.
And in some ways, one could saythat theoretically it started,
and it started being more of athing um with citizens united,
(23:15):
right?
As far as corporations beingconsidered um having the same
rights as people, uh, which theyshouldn't, right?
Uh uh something that only existsfor the purpose of making profit
at all costs should not have thesame rights as human beings.
I agree.
(23:37):
Like because we we all lose,right?
We lose because uh corporationsare like it doesn't matter if I
pollute the free buck out ofthese resources.
So, for example, in Tucson, wehave an aquifer that is poisoned
for all time because ofRaytheon.
Because a a war profiteercompany, a corporation.
(24:00):
So that's the thing, is that theUnited States is a war economy.
We exit the war, and and therehave been politicians who have
warned about this as a path,right?
Because our country is moreinterested in feeding the
corporations of war andmilitarism than they are in our
people being fed.
SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Well, because like like we talked about before,
when I mentioned the whole thingabout personnel turning into
resources, our country only seespeople as resources.
They don't see them as likeindividuals or carrying any sort
of value.
I mean, that's not, it's justlike how do we how do we push
these resources to the maximumcapacity to get what we can get
out of them because they'redisposable.
(24:42):
And except except forenvironment is disposable,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
And the and everything is disposable, and
they will live in their gildedballroom, militarized DC,
untouchable.
It's difficult to say what atwhat point in time people in the
United States who have opted outof being informed, opted out
(25:09):
about thinking about theproblems that other people have
that are about survival.
Right.
I don't know when they're goingto start to feel it enough to
pay attention.
And, you know, I have peoplewithin my own social circle that
I love very much who arebasically like, I don't want to
(25:30):
talk about these things becausethese are problems beyond what I
can handle.
Or like, you know, like peoplein my life who are like, I'm
just an old person.
I don't want to like, I don'twant to talk about these.
I'm an old person who are doingthese other things.
And like, even like, yeah, thereare vulnerable people who are
like, I'm already working threejobs just to make some ends
meet.
I can only just like franticallytry and and and make sure that I
(25:55):
have these things.
I don't know how to, I amfighting for survival.
I don't know how to fight thesystem.
And that's where we're at, isthat there are so many people of
these vulnerable people who arejust fighting to keep their
animal, their, their, their,their families and their
animals, because you know, nowwe're gonna have a bunch of
people who are gonna besurrendering their pets because
(26:16):
they can't they can't affordthem, they and they can't even
afford to feed their pets.
So if you can donate pet food tothese places as well, because
people who have pets who arepart of their survival as the
(26:37):
human-animal bond is for theirmental health, people are having
to let go because they have todecide between feeding their
kids or feeding the dog that ispart of their family and their
kids' lives.
SPEAKER_03 (26:52):
I'm glad you said that, Erica.
So I I also want to add to thatfor the people who are
listening, and and I assume whenbecause of the content that we
do, that the people that arelistening are really on board
with the stuff that we'resaying.
So actually, I'm more sayingthis to get them to, I guess,
tell other people is resist thewhole narrative of like, well,
if you can't have a pet, thendon't if you can't afford a pet,
(27:13):
then don't have one, becausethat's the crap that people use
to continue to push thisnarrative and keep people
divided.
Like everybody deserves to behappy, period.
Everybody deserves to have basichuman rights with food,
healthcare.
I mean, I don't even know why weargue about these things
anymore, because that is justit's basic human rights.
(27:34):
And part of that is the is ishaving companionship.
And for some people, you know,we think about people who you
have like service pets, orpeople who just, you know,
they're they're single and theyhave pets for like companions.
Like those are necessary,they're necessary family
members.
So don't say much like peoplesay about kids, well, if you
can't afford them, don't havethem.
Like, just stop saying shit likethat.
(27:57):
That's what I want.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Your classism is showing.
SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
What'd you say?
SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
Your classism is showing when you say that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
What what do you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Class, like, no, no, not you.
SPEAKER_03 (28:06):
I mean, oh, I was like, what?
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
No, no, not you.
I'm saying is that that's myresponse to people who are
saying that, right?
People who say that who arelike, well, if you can't like
blah blah blah, you just try andlike like that's classism, yeah,
right?
That you you have a bias becauseyou think that poverty is a
symptom of the individual ratherthan the output of an
(28:31):
exploitative economic system.
Yep, that puts people who arealready wealthy, like like we
should not have billionaires.
SPEAKER_03 (28:44):
No, we well, Billy Eilish, did you think the bit
the thing that Billy Eilish justsaid?
Yeah, which is I think that'sawesome.
I mean, I don't really followher and know her really well,
but she where do you know whereit was where she said that where
she confronted people and said,you know, if you're a
billionaire, why are you abillionaire?
And then she gave away like alot of her money.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Um yeah, I think that it was in response to maybe
getting an award.
I potentially like I think thatyou know, I'm I'm glad that like
that's like the one platformwhen people are like, oh, like
celebrities should stay out ofit.
Um uh and at the same time, likethat they shouldn't be like
(29:29):
politicizing or saying things.
And it's like, all right, well,the fact that human rights is
being labeled as political, thattells me a lot about someone's
value system, right?
Oh yeah.
Um, yeah.
Then the second thing is likewhen people are like, oh, well,
like celebrities should stay intheir lane.
It's like, no, let's talk aboutpropaganda, let's talk about
cultural propaganda, let's talkabout cultural influence, right?
(29:52):
Someone who is a celebrity whois saying something blunt about
human rights is utilizing theirplatform.
Right in a way that isappropriate.
And that every person should beutilizing their voice in their
spheres of influence to advocatefor humanity.
(30:16):
It's humanism.
It is being in support ofhumanism and people not
starving.
Is humanism.
So therefore, if someone islike, well, if you just can't do
it, well, you should juststarve, like that person has
homicidal tendencies.
They think it is acceptable forsomebody to starve to death.
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:39):
So like that person is exhibiting a lack, like you
were saying, of of of um ofempathy, of compassion, and of
humanistic integrity.
They are revealing themselves tobe someone who lacks integrity
because they can walk on by whenanything happens in front of
(31:05):
them that does like so they aremore likely to be a person that
would be comfortable withembezzlement, comfortable with
all sorts of questionablethings.
They're revealing themselves tobe a person that does not have a
reasonable grounding in ethicsand morality.
And I, you know, and I'm gladthat we have this platform where
(31:28):
I can just say that.
You have a problem with it?
I don't like like if you have aproblem with that, I think that
you should spend some time inreflection.
SPEAKER_03 (31:38):
I would agree with that.
I would agree with that.
Man.
Oh, you know what I meant totell you earlier, too, was when
I when I talked about doing theAI, because you were I had also
put in what would Kwan Yin say.
She's the goddess of compassionand mercy.
And and I also, you know, it andof course it said exactly what I
(32:00):
practice, which is that she, youknow, it would be you feed the
poor, like you take care of thepeople, right?
So like any like amount ofhumanity would say the same
thing.
Anything, right?
So like if you weren'tadvocating for people dying, and
of course, you know, I'm I'mthinking to myself as you're
describing the type of peoplewe're talking about, these are
(32:21):
also the same people that haveon their social media accounts
that they're about God and likepro-life, right?
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
Like the same people who are or honestly, people who
are like, I went on like I agreethat people deserve rest and
relaxation, right?
Absolutely.
Or like, I just got back from umBali.
I'm like, you know what?
I've done it, I've gone to Bali.
I had very mixed feelings aboutit, and also, you know, I've had
(32:46):
mixed feelings about travelinginternationally for a long time.
And I'm very, very selectivewhen I do that.
I did have the opportunity to dothat when I was younger and it
was a privilege.
And I did it on a backpacker'sdime, and it sometimes did not
eat because I wanted to explorethe world.
And I do think it's importantthat people explore the world.
But there is a point in timewhere then you ask yourself, and
(33:09):
honestly, as I got older andmore like financially
established, I was like, I gotto have that opportunity where I
backpacked around in ashoestring budget and stayed in
some very questionable places.
Now I reflect on it.
Um, because I wanted to saveenough money to be able to go to
a museum, right?
(33:30):
To experience a museum or howart is presented in a place that
is a of a different culture.
And also to have a relationshipwith my culture because I don't,
I am here, I'm a visitor here.
I am I am the product ofimmigration.
And you know, there's a veryinteresting, like and and and
(33:53):
this, of course, there arecertain re certain refugees do
get snapped.
And they do this as part oftheir adaptation as they are
trying to get work.
And people are utilizing it andsaying, yeah, now we don't want
those refugees getting that freemoney.
They need to figure it outthemselves.
(34:17):
And you know, the xenophobia,the also the lack of recognition
of how much immigrants actuallycontribute to the economy of
this nation.
That immigrants are part, and myparents as immigrants who have
literally are the reason why wehave LCD screens.
Right?
Look at your computer.
(34:38):
Thank an immigrant, thank animmigrant when you're
interacting with your computer,because two immigrants were
integral, and a whole bunch ofintegrat immigrants were
integral in the creation ofthese computer chips that make
our luxury life.
And also think about the factthat the the um cobalt and other
(34:58):
things that go into these thingsare are a product of child
slavery and another genocide,and another genocide in Sudan
and in Congo, right?
Same thing with it used to berubber, right?
It used to be rubber, it's beenbananas and avocados and all of
(35:19):
these things, right?
And this is about when we talkabout empire and when we talk
about how things that happen onthe periphery come back to the
core, because the way that thisgoes, the way the traditions
that we are based off of areones that were originally based
off of slavery.
(35:40):
So I so much frustration in thelack of awareness, the lack of
the intellectual laziness thatcomes out of some people's
mouths when they're like, Good,good, we should end snap.
Have fun with that.
SPEAKER_03 (35:57):
It's like, I don't, did you see the tote?
Did you see the toast lady?
I think was her name talkingabout.
She she did this, um, I don't, Iforgot her name.
She did this video on TikTokwhere she's like eating a piece
of toast and there's like peanutbutter on it.
And she says, Um, for all of youthat are losing your snap
benefits in November, I have onequestion for you.
(36:18):
What did you do with Octobers?
And then she like eats it, andthen she's like, I hope you're
sharp smartly.
And like, did you buy processedfoods?
And is like just really beinglike a vile human being.
And she lost her job over it,which and then um she went on
and then posted something aboutum now she can't pay her rent.
And this woman I follow, who Ithink is really awesome, did
(36:40):
like a parody video and she'slike, What'd you do with your
October rent?
I was dying.
But but that's that thatmentality, and it's it's just
oh, it's so infuriating.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
And you know, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (36:59):
Erica, you had said because I I also want to give
resources, like you had saidthat you had resources that you
wanted to give.
SPEAKER_01 (37:04):
For example, if there are few, so I have links,
and some of them are just fromArizona, so they might be
Arizona specific, but you canuse those algorithms.
So there is also uh, and umGovernor Pritzker from Illinois
made this announcement andsaying that the government is
also weaponizing the verysystem.
So even if there is money onSNAP, the actual payment
(37:27):
function won't work.
So this is why, for example,Arizona is making their own
separate thing called foodbooks, I think it is.
Oh this is why some of thegovernors and SNEP are why
they're focusing on supportingthe food banks, because food
banks have nothing to do withthe EBT system.
So on so fucking, excuse mylanguage, but fucking tomorrow,
(37:50):
right?
Even if people have their EBTcards and money on their EBT
cards, it is likely that itwon't work because the very
machines and the infrastructureutilized for Snap to function
will no longer work.
SPEAKER_03 (38:06):
Uh and I would like to add that we still, despite
all this, right?
So despite all of this, we stillhave and the government
shutdown.
Um, Congress is still gettingpaid, and we still have enough
money to send to Israel to bombpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Right.
But so God forbid we feed ourmilitary military families that
are using food have been usingfood banks because they're not
getting paid.
SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Yeah, I mean, which is disgusting.
It's just in it in myunderstanding too is that it's
also they're not guaranteed toget paid when the government
does reopen that they're notguaranteed to get it.
Now, it I I think and I get thatpeople are scared, but could you
could you imagine that becauseTSA is affected too, like TSA
and like aircraft?
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Some of those people are showing up and not getting
paid.
Could but could you imagineveterinarians who are showing up
for work and they're not gettingpaid.
So not only are they not havingthe time, and this is what's
happening, like for example, thehealthcare workers in Gaza,
right?
Showing up to work, not gettingpaid, and still having to find
the resources to feed theirfamilies and make ends meet and
(39:11):
pay for their shelter, right?
So that is what some of ourfederal federal workers are
having to do right now.
SPEAKER_03 (39:16):
Yeah, or taking out loans that you know, some places
are giving interest-free loans,but that shouldn't even be a
thing, right?
So what what I wonder what wouldhappen if all of the people who
because there are certain jobsyou can replace, right?
So, like if nobody for TSA wentin, they could, I'm sure, hire
people tomorrow, although Idon't know who they would hire
that's not going to get paid.
But air traffic controllers,that's not somebody you can just
(39:38):
like throw in tomorrow.
Like you got to train them.
So if all of them stopped goingto work, I wonder what would
happen.
SPEAKER_01 (39:48):
I think it would be very interesting.
And I think honestly, this iswhy the mayor of Chicago has
called for a general strike.
SPEAKER_03 (39:55):
I think it would, you know how quickly it would
end?
Because business would beimpacted immediately because
they wouldn't be able to gettheir shipments.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
I mean, really, because it is all about money at
this point in time, like becausewe're living under conditions
where the only people who havethe attention of our politicians
are large business, right?
So I I had saw a post not toolong ago where someone was like,
we're gonna either have Trump orWalmart.
(40:22):
Because we'll uh 25, I believeit's 25% of the dollars involved
in Snap go through Walmart.
SPEAKER_04 (40:34):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
In addition to Walmart actually creating the
people by underpaying theirworkers that their workers often
have to be on Snap, right?
So in addition to make so inthere, they underpair their
workers, so their workers haveto be on assistance, food
assistance, and then they getthat dollar that their workers
(40:57):
spend in Walmart.
Disgusting.
And it's a number, right?
So this is where corporatesubsidies or when we're doing
engaging, and we are we are acountry that focuses more on
corporate welfare than we do thewelfare of people, of everyday
people.
Right.
This is what that means.
So right now we already havefarmers who have been screwed
(41:19):
over because farmers wereinvolved in USAID money, right?
Some of their contracts involvedtheir production partially going
into um international foodsupply.
And that now that and also intothe SNAP, into SNAP.
(41:41):
So farmers are affected,pharmacists who who have had
businesses, and now they'rerealizing that they might not be
able to stay in business andkeep their farms going.
And that is an asset that willthen be bought up by, you know,
let's just throw out a name,Bill Gates or BlackRock or
whatever, some corporation.
SPEAKER_03 (42:00):
And you bring up a great point, which is that this
will eventually affecteverybody.
So even if you're in if you'renot being impacted by it now, it
is going to eventually hit yourdoorstep, like whoever's
listening.
SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
You if you have friends that won't listen to
you, you can try.
I don't know whether or not ourour podcast and our voices would
be the one to break through tothem.
But maybe either the words thatwe're using or some of the
perspectives that allow you tosearch for the things in your
area, right?
Because I can only speak toArizona and Arizona does things
(42:32):
a little bit differently.
But anywhere you go, a food bankis going to be more successful
because they also have ways ofnegotiating direct negotiation.
So food banks direct negotiatewith other businesses and other
farmers.
And also sometimes it has beengovernmental, government
related, where they're able tonegotiate for more food for
(42:53):
dollar because they're buyingthings in bulk.
So, number one, go support alocal food bank because that is
going to be more effective forgetting food out to people.
I know, for example, in Arizona,St.
Vincent de Paul has beenstepping up already.
They've been planning formonths, actually.
A lot of these organizationsthat are focused on housing
(43:15):
assistance and food assistancethat are independent, that have,
in addition to have benefitedfrom governmental contracts
before, but don't rely on thembecause they know better.
Also, local mutual aid groups.
So, for example, in where I am,we have a mutual aid
organization that has socialmedia presence.
(43:35):
I'm not going to name them rightnow because that sometimes
causes problems, right?
Because we have had, I kid younot, mutual aid groups be
targeted for state violence.
So the most radical thing thatyou can do is not only
supporting the local foodsystems that focus on getting
food to people who need itwithout questions, or the
(43:58):
businesses who who say thatthey're feeding, like there are
ones that are like, we feedpeople, right?
There are small businesses whoare like, we're gonna have a
free lunch.
You come in this day, noquestions asks.
SPEAKER_03 (44:11):
Can can I add something?
Because I find that uh the otherthing that's like super
interesting.
Do you know even the satanicchurch has said that they are
going to be offering foodservices to anybody who loses
SNAP benefits on November 1st?
SPEAKER_04 (44:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
But the a lot of the Christian-based churches have
not.
I'm just putting that out there.
SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
There are a lot, though, there are a lot of
Christian churches who used tofeed people who are now no
longer feeding people becausethey lost their government money
that was helping them do it.
SPEAKER_03 (44:43):
But it's just it's just interesting.
I just want to point that out.
That's all I'm saying, right?
Some of the some of the placesyou would expect to do it are
not doing it.
And then some of the, you know,and then we look at places we
vilify and they're out therehelping people.
So I mean, yeah it's just it'sall part of that that twisted
narrative.
So we have the resources, andI'll put some local resources
(45:04):
there from um Rhode Island aswell.
But you also, we wanted to do amemoriam now at the end that you
had wanted to talk about.
Do you want to do that now?
SPEAKER_01 (45:13):
This is personal.
And and so before I start thisor relaunch into this, thank you
everyone for listening.
You can feel empowered becausethe most empowering thing is to
share a meal or to feed someonewho needs feeding.
Because, you know, and we if youdo humanitarian work, so like as
(45:34):
someone who is engaged withhumanitarian work, is engaged
that understand what happens,you know, after disaster.
And some of it I've been doingdirectly, and some of it I do by
supporting people who are doingthat.
And especially in working inspaces where refugees are
(45:54):
impacted.
Someone can have justexperienced a natural disaster
and gone through the mosttraumatic thing in the world.
And sometimes it's difficult tounderstand what to say.
But if you can give them a hotmeal and just sit with them and
share a meal with them, food isunifying.
It is food, food changes lives.
(46:20):
So think about that, right?
Of utilizing food as a mechanismof resistance, food is
resistance, feeding people,growing food, um, exchanging
food, it bridges so many things.
And so in this time of greattravesty, lean into that and
(46:46):
know that you as an individual,even just making a bunch of
peanut butter and jellysandwiches to hand out, which is
something that is accessible formany people, you can really
change somebody's day and learnabout how what type of food,
nutritious food, is appropriate.
So, yes, things that are sayshelf stable, but if you can get
(47:09):
fresh food into people's hands,that is amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (47:12):
Erica, just because of the limits of the episode,
I'm gonna like I'm gonna have tocut, I'm gonna have to cut some
stuff out.
SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Yeah, okay.
So Dr.
Muat Talat Abul Rukha, I'mshort, Dr.
Muat, is a veterinarian that wasworking for Sulala Animal
Rescue, one of the fewfunctional animal rescues in
Gaza, and was one of the mainsurgeons providing animal care
in the north, in northern Gaza.
(47:39):
He went missing several weeksago and it was missing for, I
think it was maybe about 10 daysbefore we got confirmation that
he was killed.
And that was announced twoSundays ago.
His death was announced by mycolleague, Dr.
Miriam Kamal, at a DoctorsAgainst Genocide webinar.
(48:00):
So on a Sunday, we receivedfinal word because his body was
found, and we ref we receivedfinal confirmation.
Um, he was killed in nearJabalia.
He was shot in the leg byIsraeli soldiers.
Uh, it transected his femoralartery and he bled out and he
(48:24):
was unable to be saved, and itwas impossible for him to
receive the care that he neededto even try and save his life.
SPEAKER_03 (48:32):
Erica, I just one I want to say, I'm sorry, because
I know this is a colleague ofyours.
And I have a hard time referringto them as soldiers because
they're assassins.
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (48:43):
And they're terrorists.
I mean they're not soldiers.
SPEAKER_01 (48:47):
Yeah.
I I say that language becauseI'm also like I present this in
spaces that people are not readyto acknowledge that.
Um, so and I really value valuebeing the person who could be
like, hey, like, let's let's useaccurate language.
Um, because this is what Israelhas done as a policy.
(49:08):
They have created what they callyellow zones.
They've been doing this for along time over this process of
this genocide that they aredoing.
They create these yellow zonesand they don't actually tell
anyone.
They just artificially, theyjust arbitrarily create a line.
And anyone going over this line,any citizen, any human being
(49:30):
going over this line is killed,shot.
It's not posted anywhere,they're not notified, they're
not dropping pieces of paper.
They just decide that anyone whoshows up here.
So they and they do this inceasefire, right?
So Dr.
Mulath was murdered by thesegenocidal by this genocidal
(49:54):
military that is full of ofpeople who have are so
disconnected from their humanitythat they kill children and
other human beings for sport.
And there's plenty of documentedevidence about this.
SPEAKER_03 (50:11):
And they brag and they brag about it.
I mean, they they theyself-document it.
They self-document braggingabout it.
It's disgusting.
SPEAKER_01 (50:19):
Yes.
And so if this makes you feelthe way about them being
described, or if somebodycommunicates that they feel the
way about this being described,they are just ignorant.
They are willfully ignorant.
So um he was killed potentiallyfor sport because someone made
(50:41):
an order that during aceasefire, this zone, anyone who
crosses into it should bekilled.
Now that is not normal.
That type of directive is notnormal.
The Israeli military is notnormal.
They are not followinginternational law.
They are genocidal, they are agenocidal military.
(51:03):
And so this doctor who has spentthe last two years displaced 14
times, not just barely figuringout, and he had to undergo, he
had to go through the J GHF umgauntlet where they shot at
people as they were scramblingfor boxes in reflection of like
(51:25):
basically the Squid Games.
He had to go through that to geta box.
And we have text messages thathe exchanged with Dr.
Kamal.
And we have it on our website.
So I have, um, we'll have linkeda website where people can go to
to understand more about thisincredible human being who's
been saving lives of companionanimals and livestock and
(51:48):
donkeys that are used forambulances to move people around
for the last two years.
And as soon as he went missing,we still were hopeful.
And I'm very grateful to some ofour animal behavior colleagues
and other colleagues of oursthat, and of course, you know,
you know, Dr.
Kamal, who, who, who was stilllike engaging in social media
(52:12):
campaign, um, because, you know,that is something that she's
very talented in.
And some of us like trying to doother things that that there
were people who were supportiveof us and who made that social
media campaign while we werealso breathless, knowing that he
was likely that most likely hehad been killed, because we knew
that he was not going to be outof touch for that amount of time
(52:35):
without either being detainedand in, you know, those torture
prisons that they have that theIsrael uh military has, where
they utilize uh military dogs toterrorize and um and sexually
assault people and torturepeople.
Um, yeah.
So now the world, like there'sthere's he is somebody that the
(52:59):
news media has picked up on assomeone who was killed.
You know, there's like belovedveterinarian killed, and it's
like like the the the martyrdom,like we will talk about genocide
after it is done rather thandoing something to stop it.
And um, you know, we've calledthe AVMA to account.
(53:21):
Other, you know, um justrecently did an interview with
some of our animal behaviorcolleagues about um the AVMA
emailing us two weeks beforepresentation that we were going
to talk about anti-war, that wethat that um that was like we
need you to keep this away fromadvocacy.
(53:45):
Um so you know, we're talkingabout it because they will not
say a word.
And yet they say things aboutour veterinary colleagues in
Ukraine.
And um, so yeah, a tribute.
Dr.
Mwat, like Dr.
Mwat and the other veterinaryprofessionals in Gaza, just like
(54:08):
our human and mental health carecolleagues who are in this place
of genocide that exemplifies theabsolute worst of humanity, that
have been honoring their oathsin ways that we can only
theorize about.
(54:29):
The arrogance of any medicalprofessional and veterinary
professional or one health, youknow, ascribing person who's
outside of a zone where wherearmed conflict is is causing a
genocide, the arrogance of us tosomehow like not speak out and
(54:50):
utilize everything within oursphere of influence to do
something to take action.
I just I have no words.
I have no one.
SPEAKER_03 (55:03):
People, you know, uh people who do what he did, these
are the heroes that we look at,right?
So when one thing that I ampersonally never going to let
fly, ever, is the people who saythings like, I was just doing my
job, because that's not anexcuse.
Now, in a in a case where you'retalking about somebody who is
(55:25):
doing their job to save humanityand taking all those risks,
that's what a hero looks like,not somebody who is killing
people and killing children andlike destroying the environment,
saying, Well, I was just doingmy job.
Or if we want to make it morelocal, the people who are
kidnapping people off thestreets and shooting at them,
(55:46):
and now we have peopledisappearing in concentration
camps here in the United States.
And they, I don't know if youI'm sure you saw this too.
They just identified the peoplewho killed Hind.
Oh, I hope they uh like thoseare the people that should never
know peace.
That's all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01 (56:05):
Like I, you know, it's I think often so I'm I'm
listening to a historicalpodcast.
It's amazing.
It's called Empire.
I highly recommend it.
It's two British people whofocus on looking at historical
context of empire through adecolonial lens, right?
(56:26):
Not not 100% all the time, butlike mostly pretty good.
And they really talk about likewhen we think about the million
there are 12 million people whowere trafficked for slavery in
the United States.
12 million people.
(56:48):
Um, and I mean close to twomillion people died in just in
the transit.
The millions of people that weregenocided by the US government
through the process of thesettler colonial process of the
(57:09):
United States.
That's still that's that itstill happens.
And now now they're revealingthat in some of these facilities
we have non-consensualsterilization and gynecological
procedures that are being done.
There's sexual assault that ishappening in these facilities.
(57:30):
These facilities are reopeningwho already had human rights
violation records, which are thevery reason that they were
closed in the first place.
So we're just revamping andexpanding a type of violence
that people who are choosing tobe ignorant of, I think that
(57:50):
when like when it comes toaccount, and and part of the
problem is also there's neverbeen accountability.
There is, there has so rarelybeen accountability.
Only recently, it's onlyrecently where like the
Philippines was able to holdtheir dictator to account.
So he's now in prison, Bukele,right?
We are just barely getting intothe space where people who
(58:14):
commit such horrific violationsof human rights are actually
held to account.
Even Biden had a judge, releaseda judge that was responsible for
10 years of putting black andbrown kids into the carceral
system for 10 years for money.
And he was released, right, aspart of Biden's plan.
(58:35):
Why?
Probably money.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (58:38):
So that's also part of what repeats, though.
I mean, I think throughouthistory there's been plenty of
times where tyrants anddictators have been held
accountable.
The problem is people forget tokeep doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (58:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (58:51):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (58:52):
Because then they like I'm I'm hoping that I'm
hoping that we can activate.
I hope that enough people getactivated where we actually turn
things around instead of sort ofhalfway getting there and then
forgetting.
And so if you're American,that's your assignment.
(59:15):
Do in addition to taking actionnow, educate yourself on history
on a global scale to actuallyunderstand the degree of what
other people have survived inorder to come here, right?
What we have created in the whatthe United States citizenry has
(59:37):
been complicit in thedestruction of other places and
the bombing of other places toresult in immigrants and
refugees coming here.
Understand your role, right?
And hopefully we can stop thismadness because you know, as
it's a power to the people.
SPEAKER_03 (59:59):
So that was.
A very that was a lot ofpowerful stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
Oh hopefully we'll see.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:05):
So thank you everybody for tuning in, and um,
we will uh see you on the nextepisode.
(01:00:35):
This is just a reminder that nopart of this podcast can be
duplicated or copied withoutwritten consent from either
myself or Wendy.
Thank you again.
This podcast is not intended to serve as therapeutic
advice or to replace anyprofessional treatment.
These opinions belong to us anddo not reflect any company or
agency.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another
episode of the United States ofPTSD, and happy Halloween to
everybody as well.
Today, Eric and I are recordingon Halloween, so hopefully it'll
be out within a day ofHalloween.
Eric and I have a lot of thingsto talk about, but today we have
decided to start off withsomething that's really
important, which is thegovernment shutdown and how it
(00:49):
is impacting food insecurity forthe large majority of the
country and what this lookslike.
Erica, what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
As a background context, food security is
literally the reason I became aveterinarian.
It's also the reason why I wentthrough a combined degree
program that was 10 years of mylife.
That the person, the director ofthat program before I signed on,
(01:19):
was like, are you prepared?
Because it's likepsychologically hard.
And I did that.
And it was bad.
And we had fallout from ourprogram.
And it we can talk later.
We'll have another conversationabout the mental health
compromises that our academicinstitutions engage in in the
(01:40):
extractivism that's related toour biomedical sciences programs
and PhD programs in general.
But I did that and I made thatsacrifice at great cost in order
to have a engage in foodsecurity and concepts of food
sovereignty.
And that that's because I grewup with stories of starvation
(02:02):
post-World War II.
My grandmother, who in part, mygrandmother in in Germany, who
comes from a region of Germanythat um no longer exists, that
they were ethnically cleansedfrom that region, is a refugee
time and was displaced twicebecause they also had to escape
the East German Gestapo.
(02:24):
And so I grew up with stories ofstarvation, of stories about
where the food that you have isthe ones that you pick up off
the side of the road, thecabbages that fall out of
trucks.
I grew up watching and learningfrom somebody with deep, deep
trauma around food insecurityand was shaped by it my entire
(02:48):
life, seeing people beinghungry.
And as a medical professional,as a veterinary medical
professional, veterinary medicalprofessionals encounter what
starvation does to animals.
So, like we have starvation inour literal everyday practice
because we experience animalsthat are coming from neglect, or
(03:11):
even just animals that have beenabandoned that try and survive
as they can off of what they canto take animals through
recovery.
So this is something that Ibelieve maybe we've talked about
before, or just the process ofrefeeding syndrome as far.
SPEAKER_03 (03:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yeah.
And so as far as there is aclinical process that needs to
happen when the body has been instarvation mode for a very long
time.
If you just start feedingpeople, and we understand this,
and we discovered this due tothe Nazi concentration camps
that the the Allied soldierscame across when they were
trying to like they wereencountering, there were so many
(03:50):
people that were starved andkilled and gassed before it was
mostly only Jewish peoplebecause everyone else had been
killed, and also like queerpeople in these concentration
camps that were that were skinand bones, right?
And then they they startedfeeding people and they didn't
know, and a bunch of peopledied, you know, right?
(04:10):
Because it causes seizures, itcauses it causes death if you do
not do a very deliberateprocess.
SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Erica, before we before we get down there, I mean
all that is really important,but I want to get some of the
basics for people who are arelistening.
So one of the I want to clear upone of the misconceptions that a
lot of people in this countryhave that people live off the
the food stamp system andthey're manipulating the system
because this is the narrativethat a lot of people are
spinning.
And I have to tell you, it comesfrom both sides.
(04:40):
I saw somebody posting todaythat it's all the MAGA people,
but the reality is it comes fromboth sides.
I mean, living in a democraticstate, I think you live in a
Republican state where Arizona'srepublic or more of like it's
purple.
It's purple.
So we, you know, we live RhodeIsland has Rhode Island and
Connecticut have been ademocratic state for as long as
I can remember.
And we have this, we want tohelp it, but not in our backyard
(05:02):
mentality, right?
So there's this constant, wewant to address it because we
want to feel good aboutourselves, but we don't actually
want to fix it.
And that's it's on both sides ofit.
So I want to just throw up thescenario that I've used a few
times where uh, well, first ofall, let's start off by saying
the average person who is onSNAP benefits or gets food
assistance, they don't get asustainable amount of money to
(05:23):
begin with.
I mean, we are talking aboutpeople who get like$100 a month
if that.
And then if you're talking aboutpeople with uh, you know, like
multiple children, I knowsomebody that has three children
and one of them is a specialneeds child, then they get about
$400 a month.
Now, first of all, you can'tsurvive off$400 a month with
four kids.
You I mean, I as a singleperson, single person, I am
(05:46):
lucky if I can spend less thanfour or five hundred dollars a
month on food.
So like the fact that there'sthis narrative that people are
living off the system is justabsurd.
It's absolutely absurd to beginwith.
The the other absurd, you know,a narrative that people are
saying is what did you say,Erica?
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
That they're not working.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
Oh, that they're not working, right?
So I want so that's actuallywhere it was gonna go with this.
So I I worked with a woman for avery long time who made$11 an
hour.
Okay.
And this was way back in like Iwant to say like the early
2000s.
She made$11 an hour.
And because of that, she wasable to get food, food, um, food
(06:27):
like snap benefits, she was ableto get childcare subsidies, she
was able to get free health careand like low cost and all that
stuff.
So people see this as living offthe system.
Now, here's the problem.
If she were to make a dollarmore an hour, so now she's
making$12 an hour, and she wewent through the numbers and she
explained this to me.
The what she would gain once wetook in what it would then cost
(06:50):
her, because she would lose thechildcare subsidy, she would
lose the SNAP benefits, shewould lose the healthcare
insurance, she would have tostart pay uh paying co-pays,
would actually end up costingher$13,000 a year.
So by getting a raise, she's inthe negative.
SPEAKER_04 (07:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:06):
And people don't seem to understand that.
They have this perception.
Now, are there people out therethat abuse the system?
Of course there are.
There are people out there thatabuse every single system, but
they There are corporations whoare abusing systems.
That's a whole, yes, absolutely.
But they will take that oneperson that they see, and then
they use that as the, okay,well, this is the this is the
(07:28):
crux of what everybody's doing.
That's like such bullshit.
For I so I want to dispel thosenarratives right there.
The large majority of people whoare are getting food assistance
are people who are disabled, theelderly, people who are really
children, children, like and andchildren, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
And and and when you think about poverty, like I
think it's what 23, I thinkmaybe 25% of SNAP is like
dedicated to children and makingsure that children are fed.
SPEAKER_03 (07:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, so the interestingparallel, and there's part of me
that almost believes on somelevel it's a little bit of like
karmic justice.
I was having this umconversation with somebody the
other day that for two yearsnow, our country has been
funding the starvation of peoplein a different country.
And people like you and me havebeen calling attention to that
(08:20):
and saying, you know, this isthis is genocide, this is
horrible stuff that's happening,and all these people are
ignoring it because it wasn't ontheir doorstep.
And I also remember having manyconversations about saying this
will be on our doorstep at somepoint in time, and people just
ignored it and ignored it andignored it.
And now we're here.
(08:40):
Which is horrible.
But it when we allow it for onegroup of people, it becomes
normalized for other people.
And that's why we can't turn ablind eye to people being
starved in other countries,especially when we're funding
it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Well, like you think about where they are spending
money, right?
You have this the what'shappening to the White House as
far as Oh my god, the ballroom.
SPEAKER_03 (09:04):
Oh my god, don't even like I can't.
I can't.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
And like, like, and it's literally how much military
spending, right?
Not only military, but militaryfor um, like bombs to continue a
genocide, right?
Or um for government officialsto live on military uh housing,
right?
Christy Noam and a bunch ofthese people who are basically
(09:29):
they are getting uh welfare onour dollars, shall we say?
Yep, right?
The corporate subsidies wherecorporation corporate welfare,
right?
We'll put it corporate welfare.
Now, the thing about SNAP andsome of the money that goes to
fund SNAP, the reason why itbecame came to be in the first
place, because it actually savesmore money to feed people and
(09:54):
have adequate nutrition than tohave people who haven't received
adequate nutrition.
Because when you when and likethis is literally from my
perspective as veterinarymedicine, countries fall due to
not being able to have enoughfood access of their people.
Literally the reason for ArabSpring.
(10:17):
Yes, bread, inaccessibility ofbread.
SPEAKER_03 (10:21):
Right.
We have, but I I think, yes,Erica, the the problem is we
have the accessibility of food.
We do, we have it.
We could end it like tomorrow,we could end it right now if we
really wanted to, but that doesnot it's not in the best
interest of the powers that beto keep the people fed.
And oh go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
This is also why the Black Panthers were labeled as
were targeted by the FBI, it'sbecause they were feeding
people.
The free lunch program for kidsthat we had in schools comes
from the Black Panthers, whowere then like the leaders of
these organizations that werefeeding people were assassinated
(11:09):
by our state because they werefeeding people and providing
health care as far as communitysourcing that.
And the reason why it's targetedis because then people realize
that the way that the governmentis functioning in benefit, not
to the people, but tocorruption, and that is
(11:30):
threatening to people in power.
And so that the most radicalthings that people do is feeding
people.
Do you there were times wheremore food was able to go from
businesses who were like, Thisfood is going to expire?
And then we could also even havea whole conversation about Best
(11:52):
Buy dates, you know, those typesof things stamp on things that
are for the purpose of ofcreating dollars out of nothing.
And so this is part like, youknow, the snap benefits here and
how that's being affected andhow the weaponization of
literally food and main thingsthat are necessary for people,
(12:17):
because it's a war on poverty,right?
This is a war on the poor.
It's always been that, right?
It's always been the people inpower having a war on the poor,
but because it's not necessarilydirectly the bombing that it
used to be in the 70s of likeliterally firebombing blocks of
(12:37):
residential zones inPhiladelphia.
So you can look that one up ifyou a lot of people don't know
about.
unknown (12:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:43):
Because they don't teach that information in
school.
That is purposely kept away fromthe education system that we
have.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
And as a I think, Erica, in your I actually I
remembered an article, but Ilooked it up and it was in
Arizona.
I didn't realize this.
There was a woman that wasarrested for feeding the
homeless.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Well, we are actually engaged, that is
happening now, right?
So in they have they havetargeted people who are trying
to feed unsheltered people inTucson, in Tempe.
SPEAKER_03 (13:14):
They're trying to like basically make it illegal
to the the depravity, theseriously, the the moral
depravity that a country has tohave to make it against the law
to feed starving people isdisgusting.
(13:35):
You know, interestingly enough,I hate AI.
I mean, I I shouldn't say I hateit.
I think it does have good uses,but it a lot of it pisses me
off.
But somebody told me that youcan actually create a character
in AI.
So you could say, like, howwould so-and-so respond to this?
I, you know, I've I've made thisclear very time, many times.
I'm a pagan, I'm not Christian,but I swear to God, I'm more
(13:55):
Christian than most Christians.
So I typed in, what would Jesussay about a government that was
intentionally starving people?
And I said, please use biblicalreferences.
And of course, it says exactlywhat you and I would think it
would say.
It it comes up and it says, youknow, it talks about taking down
the government and like that,you know, you would never do
(14:17):
that.
Like you would feed the poor,like you would help the people.
And I I'm like thinking tomyself, how we call ourselves
this Christian nation.
And I know that we're we're not,but I mean people say that all
the time.
But this country does not havethe values of any country that
has empathy or compassion foranybody.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
It is I mean, like I'm I I wouldn't call myself a
Christian.
I'm definitely not.
I don't I don't know what likeI'm a I'm a Taoist Buddhist.
And and I I believe so if I wasto say I would be more the the
the Chinese version of theBible, because what they did is
(15:00):
they they replaced God withthou.
So so they made their own theyand so they're you know like
different can and this is thesame thing, you know, if you
look listen to like a ladysmithblack mamasa, right?
They are they're they are um achoir intergenerational choir
(15:21):
group that was instrumental toum was part of the creative
cultural movement that helpedend apartheid in South Africa.
So they were established beforeapartheid ended, and they they
say so.
I've had the opportunity to seethem performed twice, and they
they do a Christian faith-basedsinging, but it is their own, it
(15:45):
is their own interpretation ofthings, and so I think that that
is something that I think a lotabout as far as being a
first-generation American andalso understanding how
Christianity impacts immigrantcommunities and colonized
communities, and how becauseit's a religion and colonization
(16:06):
went hand in hand.
You know, Christianity andcolonization went hand in hand
and and was the cause of suchviolence.
Like we have like Indian SchoolRoad, and there's an Indian
school park.
It was the site of a boardingschool that was open until the
90s, where indigenous childrenwere being stolen from their
(16:27):
families and abused, and some ofit was under the guise of was
run by Christian and Catholicorganizations.
And there were babies, therewere babies in the ground,
right?
And there are traumatized peoplethat like I have a friend, I
have a friend whose mother wentthrough the boarding school
(16:50):
program, and it hasintergenerational effects.
And so the this kind of thingabout the weaponization of the
necessities of what is requiredfor or end to the
commodification of the thingsthat are required for human
survival, shelter, food, water.
SPEAKER_03 (17:08):
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
I mean, it's like it's likesuper basic.
unknown (17:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
You know what?
Also, Maslow's hierarchies ofneeds is cultural appropriation
from the Blackfoot Nation.
SPEAKER_03 (17:19):
Is it really?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
And it is um an incomplete assessment of
indigenous values.
So Maslow spent time with theBlackfoot Nation and took some
things and created Maslow'shierarchy of needs.
And it's actually incompletebecause Indigenous nations think
about cultural perpetuity ofmultiple generations rather than
(17:43):
individual things.
So this is like, and so that'sactually something that I talk
about frequently in when I givemental health talks.
When I used to be part of uh NotOne More Vet, you know, where we
start, where we started ourrelationship, actually.
SPEAKER_03 (17:57):
Yeah, which by the way was about a year ago.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Right.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
So happy anniversary.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
Yay! Yeah.
This is and it's and you know,and and you know, we talked
about how like when I was givingthat that interview that we did
about Namvi, I was like, I'm notgonna be on the board for very
long.
SPEAKER_03 (18:15):
Yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
Um, and this is also like relevant in some of these
things because you know, we'vebeen people who are talking
about the falling apart ofthings, right?
And how it was the it was gonnaboomerang back because
militarism will consumeeveryone.
And we have a war economy now.
(18:40):
So what we're experiencing inthe snap is just you know, USAID
with all of the flaws, so manyflaws, so many problems, so many
colonial issues that aredeserving of critique, and also
so much food, like criticalfood.
Like they're already, I don'teven know how many children have
(19:00):
starved because of Elon Musk'sdismantling of USAID.
SPEAKER_02 (19:05):
Elon Musk is so gross.
He really is.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
But like what so what we are about to experience
here is just a there's no relieffor international communities
where the US all of a sudden waslike, all right, all of these
very specific nutrition that isutilized for starving children
that are also starving becausethe US and other Western nations
(19:31):
have completely fuckingdisempowered those communities
from their own food sovereigntyand have also extracted and and
pillaged the natural resources.
And you can go into like and so,like, I want to also focus on
what is happening here and alsosay that it is linked with what
was happening out there and whatwe have done as a nation and
(19:56):
what we are complicit in asAmerican citizens that have
basically slept-walked throughour government, like raping,
pillaging, and bombing countriesaround the world on behalf of
corporations at times,especially if you look at the
global south.
We have to solve our ownproblems here as citizens so we
can talk about how like we willhave oh, I can send you some
(20:18):
links, like get involved in afood bank, get involved in
mutual aid.
Think about a mutual aid fridge,right?
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
The so I I agree with you, but uh to because I
mean, obviously, we have so manytopics, I just don't want to get
like so far out.
But with the my thing with the Iand I agree, food banks are
super important.
What I'm what I'm concerned, Iguess my not resistance, but my
cons my my thoughts on it isthat it's not fixing a problem.
(20:48):
And a lot of people, I mean, yousee, like around Christmas time,
right?
People will go volunteer at foodbanks because they want to feel
like they're doing somethinggreat and then they forget about
it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
So like if you call keep on doing it, past the
holidays.
SPEAKER_03 (20:59):
But if you were to call the food bank, they
oftentimes, if they're lookingfor volunteers, they don't want
them at the holidays becauseeverybody and their mother is
coming down at the holidaysbecause they want it, but
they're doing it, and I thinkthis is where I want to call
people out, is because they'redoing it for themselves.
They want to go out and feellike they're making a change.
So they go out and they dosomething and then they forget
(21:20):
about it for the rest of theyear.
You know, of course, food banksare great resources.
I think right now, though,particularly if we want to come
together as like a community orunity, you had brought up mutual
aid.
And I think we should be takingcare of each other, like
reaching out to people in ourcommunity and saying, like,
okay, how can we like shareresources so that I can help you
(21:44):
more than just overnight and Ican I can help you more than
just one meal.
And that you know, it goes backto the episode we did about
performative out or likeselective outrage, is it's so
performative.
And that's what I don't wantpeople to do.
I want people to go out and dothings to make changes and not
just make them feel better.
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
Uh I we could I I think that no matter what, there
will be performative.
Like and so we're not gonna getrid of it.
SPEAKER_04 (22:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:13):
There's there's there's a cat who's doing some
exploratory things.
Oh, I get that.
Um so I like we are in crisismode, theoretically,
potentially, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:28):
Oh, we are.
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
And um, what we are navigating is the fact that our
politicians and the politicalclass, which is an elitist
class, um has had a long timeleft to their own devices to
make war on the people.
(22:50):
And and this has been gettingworse and worse, right?
It's not selective, like yousaid, it's not a Democrat versus
a Republican issue, it is um acorruption issue.
And in some ways, one could saythat theoretically it started,
and it started being more of athing um with citizens united,
(23:15):
right?
As far as corporations beingconsidered um having the same
rights as people, uh, which theyshouldn't, right?
Uh uh something that only existsfor the purpose of making profit
at all costs should not have thesame rights as human beings.
I agree.
(23:37):
Like because we we all lose,right?
We lose because uh corporationsare like it doesn't matter if I
pollute the free buck out ofthese resources.
So, for example, in Tucson, wehave an aquifer that is poisoned
for all time because ofRaytheon.
Because a a war profiteercompany, a corporation.
(24:00):
So that's the thing, is that theUnited States is a war economy.
We exit the war, and and therehave been politicians who have
warned about this as a path,right?
Because our country is moreinterested in feeding the
corporations of war andmilitarism than they are in our
people being fed.
SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Well, because like like we talked about before,
when I mentioned the whole thingabout personnel turning into
resources, our country only seespeople as resources.
They don't see them as likeindividuals or carrying any sort
of value.
I mean, that's not, it's justlike how do we how do we push
these resources to the maximumcapacity to get what we can get
out of them because they'redisposable.
(24:42):
And except except forenvironment is disposable,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
And the and everything is disposable, and
they will live in their gildedballroom, militarized DC,
untouchable.
It's difficult to say what atwhat point in time people in the
United States who have opted outof being informed, opted out
(25:09):
about thinking about theproblems that other people have
that are about survival.
Right.
I don't know when they're goingto start to feel it enough to
pay attention.
And, you know, I have peoplewithin my own social circle that
I love very much who arebasically like, I don't want to
(25:30):
talk about these things becausethese are problems beyond what I
can handle.
Or like, you know, like peoplein my life who are like, I'm
just an old person.
I don't want to like, I don'twant to talk about these.
I'm an old person who are doingthese other things.
And like, even like, yeah, thereare vulnerable people who are
like, I'm already working threejobs just to make some ends
meet.
I can only just like franticallytry and and and make sure that I
(25:55):
have these things.
I don't know how to, I amfighting for survival.
I don't know how to fight thesystem.
And that's where we're at, isthat there are so many people of
these vulnerable people who arejust fighting to keep their
animal, their, their, their,their families and their
animals, because you know, nowwe're gonna have a bunch of
people who are gonna besurrendering their pets because
(26:16):
they can't they can't affordthem, they and they can't even
afford to feed their pets.
So if you can donate pet food tothese places as well, because
people who have pets who arepart of their survival as the
(26:37):
human-animal bond is for theirmental health, people are having
to let go because they have todecide between feeding their
kids or feeding the dog that ispart of their family and their
kids' lives.
SPEAKER_03 (26:52):
I'm glad you said that, Erica.
So I I also want to add to thatfor the people who are
listening, and and I assume whenbecause of the content that we
do, that the people that arelistening are really on board
with the stuff that we'resaying.
So actually, I'm more sayingthis to get them to, I guess,
tell other people is resist thewhole narrative of like, well,
if you can't have a pet, thendon't if you can't afford a pet,
(27:13):
then don't have one, becausethat's the crap that people use
to continue to push thisnarrative and keep people
divided.
Like everybody deserves to behappy, period.
Everybody deserves to have basichuman rights with food,
healthcare.
I mean, I don't even know why weargue about these things
anymore, because that is justit's basic human rights.
(27:34):
And part of that is the is ishaving companionship.
And for some people, you know,we think about people who you
have like service pets, orpeople who just, you know,
they're they're single and theyhave pets for like companions.
Like those are necessary,they're necessary family
members.
So don't say much like peoplesay about kids, well, if you
can't afford them, don't havethem.
Like, just stop saying shit likethat.
(27:57):
That's what I want.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Your classism is showing.
SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
What'd you say?
SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
Your classism is showing when you say that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
What what do you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Class, like, no, no, not you.
SPEAKER_03 (28:06):
I mean, oh, I was like, what?
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
No, no, not you.
I'm saying is that that's myresponse to people who are
saying that, right?
People who say that who arelike, well, if you can't like
blah blah blah, you just try andlike like that's classism, yeah,
right?
That you you have a bias becauseyou think that poverty is a
symptom of the individual ratherthan the output of an
(28:31):
exploitative economic system.
Yep, that puts people who arealready wealthy, like like we
should not have billionaires.
SPEAKER_03 (28:44):
No, we well, Billy Eilish, did you think the bit
the thing that Billy Eilish justsaid?
Yeah, which is I think that'sawesome.
I mean, I don't really followher and know her really well,
but she where do you know whereit was where she said that where
she confronted people and said,you know, if you're a
billionaire, why are you abillionaire?
And then she gave away like alot of her money.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Um yeah, I think that it was in response to maybe
getting an award.
I potentially like I think thatyou know, I'm I'm glad that like
that's like the one platformwhen people are like, oh, like
celebrities should stay out ofit.
Um uh and at the same time, likethat they shouldn't be like
(29:29):
politicizing or saying things.
And it's like, all right, well,the fact that human rights is
being labeled as political, thattells me a lot about someone's
value system, right?
Oh yeah.
Um, yeah.
Then the second thing is likewhen people are like, oh, well,
like celebrities should stay intheir lane.
It's like, no, let's talk aboutpropaganda, let's talk about
cultural propaganda, let's talkabout cultural influence, right?
(29:52):
Someone who is a celebrity whois saying something blunt about
human rights is utilizing theirplatform.
Right in a way that isappropriate.
And that every person should beutilizing their voice in their
spheres of influence to advocatefor humanity.
(30:16):
It's humanism.
It is being in support ofhumanism and people not
starving.
Is humanism.
So therefore, if someone islike, well, if you just can't do
it, well, you should juststarve, like that person has
homicidal tendencies.
They think it is acceptable forsomebody to starve to death.
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:39):
So like that person is exhibiting a lack, like you
were saying, of of of um ofempathy, of compassion, and of
humanistic integrity.
They are revealing themselves tobe someone who lacks integrity
because they can walk on by whenanything happens in front of
(31:05):
them that does like so they aremore likely to be a person that
would be comfortable withembezzlement, comfortable with
all sorts of questionablethings.
They're revealing themselves tobe a person that does not have a
reasonable grounding in ethicsand morality.
And I, you know, and I'm gladthat we have this platform where
(31:28):
I can just say that.
You have a problem with it?
I don't like like if you have aproblem with that, I think that
you should spend some time inreflection.
SPEAKER_03 (31:38):
I would agree with that.
I would agree with that.
Man.
Oh, you know what I meant totell you earlier, too, was when
I when I talked about doing theAI, because you were I had also
put in what would Kwan Yin say.
She's the goddess of compassionand mercy.
And and I also, you know, it andof course it said exactly what I
(32:00):
practice, which is that she, youknow, it would be you feed the
poor, like you take care of thepeople, right?
So like any like amount ofhumanity would say the same
thing.
Anything, right?
So like if you weren'tadvocating for people dying, and
of course, you know, I'm I'mthinking to myself as you're
describing the type of peoplewe're talking about, these are
(32:21):
also the same people that haveon their social media accounts
that they're about God and likepro-life, right?
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
Like the same people who are or honestly, people who
are like, I went on like I agreethat people deserve rest and
relaxation, right?
Absolutely.
Or like, I just got back from umBali.
I'm like, you know what?
I've done it, I've gone to Bali.
I had very mixed feelings aboutit, and also, you know, I've had
(32:46):
mixed feelings about travelinginternationally for a long time.
And I'm very, very selectivewhen I do that.
I did have the opportunity to dothat when I was younger and it
was a privilege.
And I did it on a backpacker'sdime, and it sometimes did not
eat because I wanted to explorethe world.
And I do think it's importantthat people explore the world.
But there is a point in timewhere then you ask yourself, and
(33:09):
honestly, as I got older andmore like financially
established, I was like, I gotto have that opportunity where I
backpacked around in ashoestring budget and stayed in
some very questionable places.
Now I reflect on it.
Um, because I wanted to saveenough money to be able to go to
a museum, right?
(33:30):
To experience a museum or howart is presented in a place that
is a of a different culture.
And also to have a relationshipwith my culture because I don't,
I am here, I'm a visitor here.
I am I am the product ofimmigration.
And you know, there's a veryinteresting, like and and and
(33:53):
this, of course, there arecertain re certain refugees do
get snapped.
And they do this as part oftheir adaptation as they are
trying to get work.
And people are utilizing it andsaying, yeah, now we don't want
those refugees getting that freemoney.
They need to figure it outthemselves.
(34:17):
And you know, the xenophobia,the also the lack of recognition
of how much immigrants actuallycontribute to the economy of
this nation.
That immigrants are part, and myparents as immigrants who have
literally are the reason why wehave LCD screens.
Right?
Look at your computer.
(34:38):
Thank an immigrant, thank animmigrant when you're
interacting with your computer,because two immigrants were
integral, and a whole bunch ofintegrat immigrants were
integral in the creation ofthese computer chips that make
our luxury life.
And also think about the factthat the the um cobalt and other
(34:58):
things that go into these thingsare are a product of child
slavery and another genocide,and another genocide in Sudan
and in Congo, right?
Same thing with it used to berubber, right?
It used to be rubber, it's beenbananas and avocados and all of
(35:19):
these things, right?
And this is about when we talkabout empire and when we talk
about how things that happen onthe periphery come back to the
core, because the way that thisgoes, the way the traditions
that we are based off of areones that were originally based
off of slavery.
(35:40):
So I so much frustration in thelack of awareness, the lack of
the intellectual laziness thatcomes out of some people's
mouths when they're like, Good,good, we should end snap.
Have fun with that.
SPEAKER_03 (35:57):
It's like, I don't, did you see the tote?
Did you see the toast lady?
I think was her name talkingabout.
She she did this, um, I don't, Iforgot her name.
She did this video on TikTokwhere she's like eating a piece
of toast and there's like peanutbutter on it.
And she says, Um, for all of youthat are losing your snap
benefits in November, I have onequestion for you.
(36:18):
What did you do with Octobers?
And then she like eats it, andthen she's like, I hope you're
sharp smartly.
And like, did you buy processedfoods?
And is like just really beinglike a vile human being.
And she lost her job over it,which and then um she went on
and then posted something aboutum now she can't pay her rent.
And this woman I follow, who Ithink is really awesome, did
(36:40):
like a parody video and she'slike, What'd you do with your
October rent?
I was dying.
But but that's that thatmentality, and it's it's just
oh, it's so infuriating.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
And you know, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (36:59):
Erica, you had said because I I also want to give
resources, like you had saidthat you had resources that you
wanted to give.
SPEAKER_01 (37:04):
For example, if there are few, so I have links,
and some of them are just fromArizona, so they might be
Arizona specific, but you canuse those algorithms.
So there is also uh, and umGovernor Pritzker from Illinois
made this announcement andsaying that the government is
also weaponizing the verysystem.
So even if there is money onSNAP, the actual payment
(37:27):
function won't work.
So this is why, for example,Arizona is making their own
separate thing called foodbooks, I think it is.
Oh this is why some of thegovernors and SNEP are why
they're focusing on supportingthe food banks, because food
banks have nothing to do withthe EBT system.
So on so fucking, excuse mylanguage, but fucking tomorrow,
(37:50):
right?
Even if people have their EBTcards and money on their EBT
cards, it is likely that itwon't work because the very
machines and the infrastructureutilized for Snap to function
will no longer work.
SPEAKER_03 (38:06):
Uh and I would like to add that we still, despite
all this, right?
So despite all of this, we stillhave and the government
shutdown.
Um, Congress is still gettingpaid, and we still have enough
money to send to Israel to bombpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Right.
But so God forbid we feed ourmilitary military families that
are using food have been usingfood banks because they're not
getting paid.
SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Yeah, I mean, which is disgusting.
It's just in it in myunderstanding too is that it's
also they're not guaranteed toget paid when the government
does reopen that they're notguaranteed to get it.
Now, it I I think and I get thatpeople are scared, but could you
could you imagine that becauseTSA is affected too, like TSA
and like aircraft?
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Some of those people are showing up and not getting
paid.
Could but could you imagineveterinarians who are showing up
for work and they're not gettingpaid.
So not only are they not havingthe time, and this is what's
happening, like for example, thehealthcare workers in Gaza,
right?
Showing up to work, not gettingpaid, and still having to find
the resources to feed theirfamilies and make ends meet and
(39:11):
pay for their shelter, right?
So that is what some of ourfederal federal workers are
having to do right now.
SPEAKER_03 (39:16):
Yeah, or taking out loans that you know, some places
are giving interest-free loans,but that shouldn't even be a
thing, right?
So what what I wonder what wouldhappen if all of the people who
because there are certain jobsyou can replace, right?
So, like if nobody for TSA wentin, they could, I'm sure, hire
people tomorrow, although Idon't know who they would hire
that's not going to get paid.
But air traffic controllers,that's not somebody you can just
(39:38):
like throw in tomorrow.
Like you got to train them.
So if all of them stopped goingto work, I wonder what would
happen.
SPEAKER_01 (39:48):
I think it would be very interesting.
And I think honestly, this iswhy the mayor of Chicago has
called for a general strike.
SPEAKER_03 (39:55):
I think it would, you know how quickly it would
end?
Because business would beimpacted immediately because
they wouldn't be able to gettheir shipments.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
I mean, really, because it is all about money at
this point in time, like becausewe're living under conditions
where the only people who havethe attention of our politicians
are large business, right?
So I I had saw a post not toolong ago where someone was like,
we're gonna either have Trump orWalmart.
(40:22):
Because we'll uh 25, I believeit's 25% of the dollars involved
in Snap go through Walmart.
SPEAKER_04 (40:34):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
In addition to Walmart actually creating the
people by underpaying theirworkers that their workers often
have to be on Snap, right?
So in addition to make so inthere, they underpair their
workers, so their workers haveto be on assistance, food
assistance, and then they getthat dollar that their workers
(40:57):
spend in Walmart.
Disgusting.
And it's a number, right?
So this is where corporatesubsidies or when we're doing
engaging, and we are we are acountry that focuses more on
corporate welfare than we do thewelfare of people, of everyday
people.
Right.
This is what that means.
So right now we already havefarmers who have been screwed
(41:19):
over because farmers wereinvolved in USAID money, right?
Some of their contracts involvedtheir production partially going
into um international foodsupply.
And that now that and also intothe SNAP, into SNAP.
(41:41):
So farmers are affected,pharmacists who who have had
businesses, and now they'rerealizing that they might not be
able to stay in business andkeep their farms going.
And that is an asset that willthen be bought up by, you know,
let's just throw out a name,Bill Gates or BlackRock or
whatever, some corporation.
SPEAKER_03 (42:00):
And you bring up a great point, which is that this
will eventually affecteverybody.
So even if you're in if you'renot being impacted by it now, it
is going to eventually hit yourdoorstep, like whoever's
listening.
SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
You if you have friends that won't listen to
you, you can try.
I don't know whether or not ourour podcast and our voices would
be the one to break through tothem.
But maybe either the words thatwe're using or some of the
perspectives that allow you tosearch for the things in your
area, right?
Because I can only speak toArizona and Arizona does things
(42:32):
a little bit differently.
But anywhere you go, a food bankis going to be more successful
because they also have ways ofnegotiating direct negotiation.
So food banks direct negotiatewith other businesses and other
farmers.
And also sometimes it has beengovernmental, government
related, where they're able tonegotiate for more food for
(42:53):
dollar because they're buyingthings in bulk.
So, number one, go support alocal food bank because that is
going to be more effective forgetting food out to people.
I know, for example, in Arizona,St.
Vincent de Paul has beenstepping up already.
They've been planning formonths, actually.
A lot of these organizationsthat are focused on housing
(43:15):
assistance and food assistancethat are independent, that have,
in addition to have benefitedfrom governmental contracts
before, but don't rely on thembecause they know better.
Also, local mutual aid groups.
So, for example, in where I am,we have a mutual aid
organization that has socialmedia presence.
(43:35):
I'm not going to name them rightnow because that sometimes
causes problems, right?
Because we have had, I kid younot, mutual aid groups be
targeted for state violence.
So the most radical thing thatyou can do is not only
supporting the local foodsystems that focus on getting
food to people who need itwithout questions, or the
(43:58):
businesses who who say thatthey're feeding, like there are
ones that are like, we feedpeople, right?
There are small businesses whoare like, we're gonna have a
free lunch.
You come in this day, noquestions asks.
SPEAKER_03 (44:11):
Can can I add something?
Because I find that uh the otherthing that's like super
interesting.
Do you know even the satanicchurch has said that they are
going to be offering foodservices to anybody who loses
SNAP benefits on November 1st?
SPEAKER_04 (44:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
But the a lot of the Christian-based churches have
not.
I'm just putting that out there.
SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
There are a lot, though, there are a lot of
Christian churches who used tofeed people who are now no
longer feeding people becausethey lost their government money
that was helping them do it.
SPEAKER_03 (44:43):
But it's just it's just interesting.
I just want to point that out.
That's all I'm saying, right?
Some of the some of the placesyou would expect to do it are
not doing it.
And then some of the, you know,and then we look at places we
vilify and they're out therehelping people.
So I mean, yeah it's just it'sall part of that that twisted
narrative.
So we have the resources, andI'll put some local resources
(45:04):
there from um Rhode Island aswell.
But you also, we wanted to do amemoriam now at the end that you
had wanted to talk about.
Do you want to do that now?
SPEAKER_01 (45:13):
This is personal.
And and so before I start thisor relaunch into this, thank you
everyone for listening.
You can feel empowered becausethe most empowering thing is to
share a meal or to feed someonewho needs feeding.
Because, you know, and we if youdo humanitarian work, so like as
(45:34):
someone who is engaged withhumanitarian work, is engaged
that understand what happens,you know, after disaster.
And some of it I've been doingdirectly, and some of it I do by
supporting people who are doingthat.
And especially in working inspaces where refugees are
(45:54):
impacted.
Someone can have justexperienced a natural disaster
and gone through the mosttraumatic thing in the world.
And sometimes it's difficult tounderstand what to say.
But if you can give them a hotmeal and just sit with them and
share a meal with them, food isunifying.
It is food, food changes lives.
(46:20):
So think about that, right?
Of utilizing food as a mechanismof resistance, food is
resistance, feeding people,growing food, um, exchanging
food, it bridges so many things.
And so in this time of greattravesty, lean into that and
(46:46):
know that you as an individual,even just making a bunch of
peanut butter and jellysandwiches to hand out, which is
something that is accessible formany people, you can really
change somebody's day and learnabout how what type of food,
nutritious food, is appropriate.
So, yes, things that are sayshelf stable, but if you can get
(47:09):
fresh food into people's hands,that is amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (47:12):
Erica, just because of the limits of the episode,
I'm gonna like I'm gonna have tocut, I'm gonna have to cut some
stuff out.
SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Yeah, okay.
So Dr.
Muat Talat Abul Rukha, I'mshort, Dr.
Muat, is a veterinarian that wasworking for Sulala Animal
Rescue, one of the fewfunctional animal rescues in
Gaza, and was one of the mainsurgeons providing animal care
in the north, in northern Gaza.
(47:39):
He went missing several weeksago and it was missing for, I
think it was maybe about 10 daysbefore we got confirmation that
he was killed.
And that was announced twoSundays ago.
His death was announced by mycolleague, Dr.
Miriam Kamal, at a DoctorsAgainst Genocide webinar.
(48:00):
So on a Sunday, we receivedfinal word because his body was
found, and we ref we receivedfinal confirmation.
Um, he was killed in nearJabalia.
He was shot in the leg byIsraeli soldiers.
Uh, it transected his femoralartery and he bled out and he
(48:24):
was unable to be saved, and itwas impossible for him to
receive the care that he neededto even try and save his life.
SPEAKER_03 (48:32):
Erica, I just one I want to say, I'm sorry, because
I know this is a colleague ofyours.
And I have a hard time referringto them as soldiers because
they're assassins.
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (48:43):
And they're terrorists.
I mean they're not soldiers.
SPEAKER_01 (48:47):
Yeah.
I I say that language becauseI'm also like I present this in
spaces that people are not readyto acknowledge that.
Um, so and I really value valuebeing the person who could be
like, hey, like, let's let's useaccurate language.
Um, because this is what Israelhas done as a policy.
(49:08):
They have created what they callyellow zones.
They've been doing this for along time over this process of
this genocide that they aredoing.
They create these yellow zonesand they don't actually tell
anyone.
They just artificially, theyjust arbitrarily create a line.
And anyone going over this line,any citizen, any human being
(49:30):
going over this line is killed,shot.
It's not posted anywhere,they're not notified, they're
not dropping pieces of paper.
They just decide that anyone whoshows up here.
So they and they do this inceasefire, right?
So Dr.
Mulath was murdered by thesegenocidal by this genocidal
(49:54):
military that is full of ofpeople who have are so
disconnected from their humanitythat they kill children and
other human beings for sport.
And there's plenty of documentedevidence about this.
SPEAKER_03 (50:11):
And they brag and they brag about it.
I mean, they they theyself-document it.
They self-document braggingabout it.
It's disgusting.
SPEAKER_01 (50:19):
Yes.
And so if this makes you feelthe way about them being
described, or if somebodycommunicates that they feel the
way about this being described,they are just ignorant.
They are willfully ignorant.
So um he was killed potentiallyfor sport because someone made
(50:41):
an order that during aceasefire, this zone, anyone who
crosses into it should bekilled.
Now that is not normal.
That type of directive is notnormal.
The Israeli military is notnormal.
They are not followinginternational law.
They are genocidal, they are agenocidal military.
(51:03):
And so this doctor who has spentthe last two years displaced 14
times, not just barely figuringout, and he had to undergo, he
had to go through the J GHF umgauntlet where they shot at
people as they were scramblingfor boxes in reflection of like
(51:25):
basically the Squid Games.
He had to go through that to geta box.
And we have text messages thathe exchanged with Dr.
Kamal.
And we have it on our website.
So I have, um, we'll have linkeda website where people can go to
to understand more about thisincredible human being who's
been saving lives of companionanimals and livestock and
(51:48):
donkeys that are used forambulances to move people around
for the last two years.
And as soon as he went missing,we still were hopeful.
And I'm very grateful to some ofour animal behavior colleagues
and other colleagues of oursthat, and of course, you know,
you know, Dr.
Kamal, who, who, who was stilllike engaging in social media
(52:12):
campaign, um, because, you know,that is something that she's
very talented in.
And some of us like trying to doother things that that there
were people who were supportiveof us and who made that social
media campaign while we werealso breathless, knowing that he
was likely that most likely hehad been killed, because we knew
that he was not going to be outof touch for that amount of time
(52:35):
without either being detainedand in, you know, those torture
prisons that they have that theIsrael uh military has, where
they utilize uh military dogs toterrorize and um and sexually
assault people and torturepeople.
Um, yeah.
So now the world, like there'sthere's he is somebody that the
(52:59):
news media has picked up on assomeone who was killed.
You know, there's like belovedveterinarian killed, and it's
like like the the the martyrdom,like we will talk about genocide
after it is done rather thandoing something to stop it.
And um, you know, we've calledthe AVMA to account.
(53:21):
Other, you know, um justrecently did an interview with
some of our animal behaviorcolleagues about um the AVMA
emailing us two weeks beforepresentation that we were going
to talk about anti-war, that wethat that um that was like we
need you to keep this away fromadvocacy.
(53:45):
Um so you know, we're talkingabout it because they will not
say a word.
And yet they say things aboutour veterinary colleagues in
Ukraine.
And um, so yeah, a tribute.
Dr.
Mwat, like Dr.
Mwat and the other veterinaryprofessionals in Gaza, just like
(54:08):
our human and mental health carecolleagues who are in this place
of genocide that exemplifies theabsolute worst of humanity, that
have been honoring their oathsin ways that we can only
theorize about.
(54:29):
The arrogance of any medicalprofessional and veterinary
professional or one health, youknow, ascribing person who's
outside of a zone where wherearmed conflict is is causing a
genocide, the arrogance of us tosomehow like not speak out and
(54:50):
utilize everything within oursphere of influence to do
something to take action.
I just I have no words.
I have no one.
SPEAKER_03 (55:03):
People, you know, uh people who do what he did, these
are the heroes that we look at,right?
So when one thing that I ampersonally never going to let
fly, ever, is the people who saythings like, I was just doing my
job, because that's not anexcuse.
Now, in a in a case where you'retalking about somebody who is
(55:25):
doing their job to save humanityand taking all those risks,
that's what a hero looks like,not somebody who is killing
people and killing children andlike destroying the environment,
saying, Well, I was just doingmy job.
Or if we want to make it morelocal, the people who are
kidnapping people off thestreets and shooting at them,
(55:46):
and now we have peopledisappearing in concentration
camps here in the United States.
And they, I don't know if youI'm sure you saw this too.
They just identified the peoplewho killed Hind.
Oh, I hope they uh like thoseare the people that should never
know peace.
That's all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01 (56:05):
Like I, you know, it's I think often so I'm I'm
listening to a historicalpodcast.
It's amazing.
It's called Empire.
I highly recommend it.
It's two British people whofocus on looking at historical
context of empire through adecolonial lens, right?
(56:26):
Not not 100% all the time, butlike mostly pretty good.
And they really talk about likewhen we think about the million
there are 12 million people whowere trafficked for slavery in
the United States.
12 million people.
(56:48):
Um, and I mean close to twomillion people died in just in
the transit.
The millions of people that weregenocided by the US government
through the process of thesettler colonial process of the
(57:09):
United States.
That's still that's that itstill happens.
And now now they're revealingthat in some of these facilities
we have non-consensualsterilization and gynecological
procedures that are being done.
There's sexual assault that ishappening in these facilities.
(57:30):
These facilities are reopeningwho already had human rights
violation records, which are thevery reason that they were
closed in the first place.
So we're just revamping andexpanding a type of violence
that people who are choosing tobe ignorant of, I think that
(57:50):
when like when it comes toaccount, and and part of the
problem is also there's neverbeen accountability.
There is, there has so rarelybeen accountability.
Only recently, it's onlyrecently where like the
Philippines was able to holdtheir dictator to account.
So he's now in prison, Bukele,right?
We are just barely getting intothe space where people who
(58:14):
commit such horrific violationsof human rights are actually
held to account.
Even Biden had a judge, releaseda judge that was responsible for
10 years of putting black andbrown kids into the carceral
system for 10 years for money.
And he was released, right, aspart of Biden's plan.
(58:35):
Why?
Probably money.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (58:38):
So that's also part of what repeats, though.
I mean, I think throughouthistory there's been plenty of
times where tyrants anddictators have been held
accountable.
The problem is people forget tokeep doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (58:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (58:51):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (58:52):
Because then they like I'm I'm hoping that I'm
hoping that we can activate.
I hope that enough people getactivated where we actually turn
things around instead of sort ofhalfway getting there and then
forgetting.
And so if you're American,that's your assignment.
(59:15):
Do in addition to taking actionnow, educate yourself on history
on a global scale to actuallyunderstand the degree of what
other people have survived inorder to come here, right?
What we have created in the whatthe United States citizenry has
(59:37):
been complicit in thedestruction of other places and
the bombing of other places toresult in immigrants and
refugees coming here.
Understand your role, right?
And hopefully we can stop thismadness because you know, as
it's a power to the people.
SPEAKER_03 (59:59):
So that was.
A very that was a lot ofpowerful stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
Oh hopefully we'll see.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:05):
So thank you everybody for tuning in, and um,
we will uh see you on the nextepisode.
(01:00:35):
This is just a reminder that nopart of this podcast can be
duplicated or copied withoutwritten consent from either
myself or Wendy.
Thank you again.
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