April 5, 2021 • 24 mins
After years of learning to survive in an unwelcome environment, Gabe is tired of trying to make others feel comfortable around him. The time for talk is over; he wants to see action and change.
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Episode Transcript
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Gabe (00:10):
Even at that age, I knew there was a difference. I was
different. I knew I lookeddifferent from everyone. I knew
that our family looked differentfrom other families.
But I didn't understand why andit didn't really bother me,
because again, inside the house,we were all considered equals.
It was only outside, just how wewere treated or how I was
(00:31):
treated.
DB Crema (00:35):
This is United States of Race, personal stories of how
our earliest memories determinea lifetime of relationships.
Each episode features one guestsharing their experiences with
race. Listen, without prejudiceto their real, uninhibited
stories, because by sharing whenwe first learned we are all
different, we find the commonthread that shows us how much we
(00:58):
are all the same. I'm your hostDB Crema. Gabe is tired of
trying to make others feelcomfortable around him. And
after years of learning tosurvive in an unwelcome
environment. He wants to seeaction and change.
(01:19):
When did you become aware ofrace?
Gabe (01:22):
So we camped a lot when I was growing up, and we would go
everywhere all over the country,actually to camp. I remember
one, one incident where we werein, I think, Wyoming Cheyenne,
is that right? And I was atoddler at the time, walking
down the street holding mymother's hand. I think I was too
(01:43):
close to the edge of the curb.
And my father was a few stepsahead. And apparently, from what
I was told, I actually vaguelydo remember this, but the
circumstances behind it, I wastold later. There was a truck
that came speeding by and triedto hit me. My father happened to
be turned around talking to usboth, you know, because he was
(02:06):
in front of us at the time. Andhe saw the car coming, the truck
coming. And both he and mymother kind of jumped on me and
pulled me closer into the curb,and the car missed, s he, you
know, went off. And they didyell something out the window.
And you know, things like thathave happened. My father has
gotten into many, fisticuffs, ifyou will, over the fact of
(02:29):
having a black child. And that'shappened a fair amount of times
or not being accepted to thiscamp ground or any place for
that matter. Because you know,we don't want his kindhere. Or
why do you have a black son?
Then you're a traitor, so tospeak. That's happened, of
course, you know. You see thatall the time. But that's
(02:52):
happened to us quite a bit.
DB Crema (02:53):
You'd be turned away from campsite
because of it?
Gabe (02:56):
That, or restaurants or, yeah, absolutely. So, I'm mixed
race, I'm half white and black.
Both my parents are white, so Iwas adopted about one month old,
I think it was. And you canimagine that with those optics
living in the suburbs of Boston,in particular, there was quite a
(03:19):
bit to talk about, quite a bitto experience if you will, so.
My actual family was great. Myparents are very loving, very
affectionate, very supportive. Ihad a wonderful childhood, as
far as the family is concerned.
They didn't keep anything fromme. So we had very open dialogue
(03:40):
throughout my childhood. And wehad all kinds of people in and
out of the house, differentcultures and backgrounds and so
forth. So I lived in a veryopen, free environment, which
I'm very thankful for to thisday. And they didn't hide
anything from me. I will say,though, that I didn't have a lot
of knowledge of my culturalbackground, so to speak. And I
(04:01):
don't think it's because theychose not to immerse me in that
I think they just didn't knowhow to. And, you know, I wish
things were different in thatregard. But great childhood, no
complaints. I was generally ahappy kid. But the outside world
didn't see that. Inside thehouse, it was great. Outside is
a little different story.
DB Crema (04:20):
Why did your parents adopt you, a black child?
Gabe (04:23):
Well, if you ask either one of them, they'd say, well
because he was the mostbeautiful baby that we've ever
seen. They probably lost a bet,I don't know.
DB Crema (04:31):
I mean, knowing all the hardships that a black
child, a black male child, facesin this country. Why do your
parents choose to adopt a blackchild?
Gabe (04:40):
Yeah, I again, I don't think they chose
to adopt me because of anythingother than they couldn't have a
child. They wanted to have aninclusive family. It didn't
necessarily mean if theycouldn't have one themselves
physically, they just wanted tohave a child. So when it came
time for kids that wereavailable, you know, back then
(05:01):
this is the early 70s. So theydidn't, again, this is what they
told me. And you know, whoknows, but they said, you know,
they had a few options, but theylooked at me and they, they saw
that, that this is somethingthat they really wanted, and
that they thought I was, I wouldjust add to the family, and
they. I don't know, love atfirst sight. I guess, I really,
(05:23):
I couldn't tell you. But what Ican say is that any social
ramifications of doing so was
DB Crema (05:26):
What did your parents teach you about your identity,
really not top of mind withthem. They didn't seem to be
concerned about that, at thattime. They were more concerned
about having a kid. And whattype of kid didn't really matter
- male, female, Asian, Latina,didn't matter. They just wanted
a kid that they connected with.
And that's where I came along. Iwill say that, I think they
(05:46):
probably should have thought ofthat. But they didn't. Because
things did get fairly bad attimes. You know, again, this is
Boston. So in the early 70s,we're going through busing,
we're going through a lot ofsegregation, there's, you know,
a lot of communities that justdid not want any type of
integration whatsoever. So evenwithin their own families, you
(06:10):
know, we're dealing with, youknow, Irish, you know, that... I
didn't see my father's mother,so my grandmother, I guess - I
never called her that - untilwas 13. And the reason why
never saw her till I was 13, ibecause she didn't want to se
me. And that wasn't kept frome. That was not kept from me a
(06:32):
all. But when you're young, yoknow, I'm not getting
present this year. That's allou think about. You don't think
about, okay, she doesn't want tosee me because I'm black, or
that her son had a black kid. E, I don't care. Right? It
doesn't really bother me. Andit didn't. I think I am who I a
, is because I've had to learn tnot live with a lot of the sup
ort or a lot of these peoplen my life.
(07:00):
your cultural identity, yourrace, racial identity?
Gabe (07:03):
It was unfortunate, there was not a lot of exposure to my
cultural identity at all from myparents. As I mentioned before,
that it's not because theydidn't want to, it's I don't
think they were equipped to. Idon't think they knew how to.
And again, they wanted to giveme everything they could, they
wanted to give me everyopportunity every expose me to
everything and I was but I don'tthink they were equipped to kind
(07:25):
of hand over the reins toanother culture. Maybe they
thought that I would escape andI would forget where I was or
who they were. But yeah, I thinkfor the most part, the childhood
was was fine. It's once youventured out to other places,
going on vacation with thefamily. Wherever we would
(07:46):
travel, that's when I saw a lotof it, especially with two white
parents. And you know, it'sfunny, because, you know, I was
the type of kid and person whowas always caught in the middle
from the white community and theblack community. But generally,
it was me and hundreds of whitekids, predominately white
school, I think I was one of twoblack kids in the school. And
(08:10):
the strange dynamics about megrowing up in that environment
was that I was ostracized. But Iwas also, at some times,
considered almost a mascot, ifyou will. You know, clearly a
token. So I would be protected.
But I would also be harassedtoo. To a certain point, of
course, because towards midwaythrough high school, I got
really big, and all that stuffstopped. Let's just say that.
DB Crema (08:33):
That helps.
Gabe (08:33):
Which is great. Of course, this elevated when I got older
into, let's say pre-teens andstarted to date and whatnot.
Dating was a huge part of mygrowing up. Now, you can picture
that the suburbs arepredominantly white. And let's
(08:56):
just say that, that what wasavailable...I'm trying to be
very respectful here.
What wasavailable, were not not a
diversity as far as the datingpool. And the people I had
access to were, of course, youknow, white girls and whatnot.
Which is fine. There's nothingwrong with that, of course. But
the parents and the friends,they didn't like it. They didn't
(09:22):
like it at all. I can't tell youhow many times I've even met
parents, specifically fathers ofnot just girlfriends but
friends, both male and female,who just did not want me around.
And because when you're young,you make light of everything,
because you don't understand thegravity of what you're dealing
(09:42):
with. So let's say for example,I was out with a group of, let's
say six or eight people, and wewere wasting time at someone's
house. There would have to bethese strategic moves to let's
say, if the parents come home,where are we going to hide Gabe?
You know, what's he gonna do. So
DB Crema (09:57):
Hiding from them?
we would be carrying on anddoing what we're not supposed to
do. And then we'd see a car comeup. And you know then, shit,
there's the father and then Iwould make a mad dash for the
back. Now forget about dating adaughter that was always in
cloak and dagger mode. That thatwas, you know, meet somewhere,
don't let anyone know. Andfriends too. Friends of said
(10:20):
girlfriend, you know, becausthey could get back to th
parents or did you know?
Gabe (10:26):
Yes, exactly. And there were occasions where parents
would find out and threats weremade. You know, if you see Gabe,
then you know, you're done. Whatthat would mean? I don't know.
But I've had personal threatstoo. Well, if we see you with
(10:46):
him, we're gonna, we're gonnahang him or drag me by the car,
you know? Absolutely. Yep.
DB Crema (10:55):
Would they say this to you?
Gabe (10:57):
I have been told that face to face on a couple of
occasions. But I've heardthrough either the girlfriend
who I would no longer see movingforward, or the friends, the
communal friends, if you will.
That was just commonplace. Thathappened. One one particular
instance, where as I was sayingbefore, there was a group of
friends that we met at thisfriend's house. And she, it was
(11:22):
in the afternoon and her parens weren't home. I was, you know
it was like a Saturday aftrnoon, or what have you. I think
we were 15 or so. And we wereust sitting in the living room
nd drinking, of course, andoing things that we're probab
y shouldn't be doing. And te father and older brother did
ome home a bit earlier thanthey were expected. So what had
(11:43):
appened was, you know, survivl mode. Everyone started to f
eak out, clean up, but no one lft. But they suggested th
t I leave. So, you know, I've nver been to this house before
DB Crema (11:55):
It didn't matter that, um, that you had white parents?
What do you want me to do? Wht do you want me to go? I'm a fr
end too. I mean, the negotiaton necessarily didn't happe
that way. But, so I found my wato the kitchen, to the back do
r, and I hid out in the backyartill they came in. Apparent
y, the father was really uset just that there was people i
his house anyway. Okay. Thn he saw me through the window.
(12:20):
hat is he doing here? Who is tat? And I think they said, We
l, that's a friend of ours. Bythat time I was running throug
the yard, which in itselfis all kinds of stuff. And I
was you know, I was trying to ruback home because I lived a few
streets away. And apparntly, he and the older broth
(12:41):
r who was with him, they decidd to come after me. They wanted
to find me. So they got back ithe car. And they they drove
all the rest of the friends staed there. Because they we
e all white. And they went lookig for me. Apparently. They d
d not find me because I did makeit home okay. But I come to
find out later that that's wat they did. And they threaten t
(13:04):
e daughter, and they didn't evewant any of the other friends o
er again. And they certainlyidn't want me there again, so.
.
Gabe (13:16):
No, not at all. Not at all, because, what what people
see is what they say. I'm black.
So it doesn't matter where Icome from, who my parents are,
who I know, who I don't know.
They see black. They see I'm notlike them. They didn't care.
DB Crema (13:32):
Well, I mean, clearly no parent wants to come home and
find like a group of kidsdrinking in their house. But
it's telling that like, nobodyelse moved.
That's indicative.
Gabe (13:41):
Exactly.
But not only did they notmove, but think about it, they
didn't even have the foresightto think well, this is wrong.
You know, here's our friend whohas to do this, who has to
escape before something happens.
And we're just sitting here likenothing. I mean, I understand
this is a 15 year old brain. Sothey don't understand. They
don't, you know, they don't getthe social awareness. So they
don't, they don't understandsomething's wrong, something
(14:03):
could happen to one of theirfriends. And all they think of
is, well, as long as we just sitput and be silent, nothing's
gonna happen. They're not goingto call our parents or what have
you. But that's what it waslike, you know? And over time
you learn to... thesemechanisms, you learn over time
how to survive in this type ofenvironment. It's awful. It's
survival, but it's how life is,especially in that environment.
(14:27):
You know?
DB Crema (14:30):
Like, it doesn't matter where you're from,
doesn't matter if you grew upin... Your skin color is your
skin color, and that is the onlyfactor.
Gabe (14:37):
Exactly.
Oh man. Meeting parents for thefirst time. I mean, that's
that's a big one.
I was dating this this youngwoman quite a while ago, and it
got to the point in therelationship where she
desperately wanted me to meether parents. Having gone through
this many times before in thepast, that's not something I
want to do. You know,especially... I don't know if
(15:01):
it's a male thing or what, butit's definitely, it's definitely
not a black male thing when youwhen you're seeing a white
woman. It's just not in thecards. But you know, you got to
do it. And I remember havingdiscussions with her before the
actual dinner, you know, a fewdays before. You know, what's it
going to be like? Should we havean exit exit strategy, so forth?
You know. And she was not tooconcerned about it. Of course,
(15:25):
she was in this kind of, like,I'm so excited, he's gonna come
and I'm gonna mix the two worldstogether and all this... You
know, you don't understand. Ijust want to... you know, we'll
have a good time, I just want tounderstand what to expect. Okay?
No, don't worry about it. It'sall in your head. Now, let me
tell you that I've been told myentire life. It's all in your
head. No, it's not. It's, well,it might be in 13.9% of the
(15:51):
population in this country'shead, but it's their.
Apparently, her mother askedher... I'm sorry, this still
makes me chuckle. She had askedher, like, I think the day
before our dinner. She said, Youknow, I don't know what to do
when he comes to the door. Whatshould I expect? Is he going to
(16:14):
have a bone in his nose? She didsay that. What do they eat? Not
what do I eat? What do they eat?
She told me that, I was floored.
But I started to laugh. Itdidn't shock me at all.
And actually, just because of myreally bad humor and who I am as
(16:35):
a person, I actually thoughtabout showing up that night,
putting a bone in my nose. Ireally did. I didn't, because
that would just be all kinds ofa nightmare for everybody. But,
I didn't. And you know, it'sunfortunate, but people really
do think that way. And anythingto show the division between who
(16:56):
you are and they are, that's allthey can focus on. It goes far
beyond skin tone.
DB Crema (17:02):
Did things ever change for you? of how do you...
Gabe (17:07):
Yeah, you know, you get older, you have a different
perspective on life, you have adifferent perspective of your
surroundings. You learn how tonavigate things a lot easier in
life. But I'm well aware of thedivision that we have, not only
in this country, but just aroundthe world - how people see me. I
also don't care anymore. I don'tgive a shit anymore. I really
don't. You know, people justhate us so much. I can't get
(17:31):
over it. But now I found myselfgetting a lot more, I don't know
how to say this,...not angry,but forceful with with my cause
and how I want to handle things.
Let's just say that. I thinkit's about time. I'm not a
(17:52):
conversation person. I'm anaction person. I don't want to
hear anyone talk. I don't wantto sit down at the table. And I
don't want to discuss how we canmove forward. I'm done. I'm done
with that. I want action. We'vetalked for over 200 years, I
don't want to deal with itanymore. You know, it's just not
who I am...now.
DB Crema (18:12):
What do you mean by you're more forceful? I mean,
like, what do you mean by takingaction?
Gabe (18:18):
What I mean by forceful is that, you know, my tolerance
level for any kind ofinteraction that might go south
is, I just, I don't tend tolaugh it off these days, I tend
to get more involved. I'mexhausted, I don't have the
fight me to make certain groupshappy to make them feel
(18:39):
comfortable when they're aroundme. I mean, for most of my life,
I had to do that, which I doknow, a lot of people of color
have to do that. I mean, youknow, be it a job interview or
going to the store or, you know,you know, always taking the
brunt of a situation that mightgo south. Oh, that's me. That's
my bad, you know, when it's not,you know, that kind of B.S.. I
mean, I'm not doing it, youknow, but after a while, you
(19:02):
know, making yourself small and,in the background or, you know,
not seen. I'm done with allthat, you know, I don't want to
live my life anymore like that.
I've had to do that for 40 plusyears. It's just not...I don't
want to do it. I'm done. So, ifsomething goes south, I think my
reactions to that....they'regoing to be a little different.
DB Crema (19:26):
Mm hmm.
Gabe (19:27):
But you know, it's funny because I'm seeing all this
stuff happen now with my son.
And we often talk about whathe's going through. And it
brings me right back to when Iwas his age. He's dealing with
the same stuff - meetingparents, groups of people, being
shunned by this group, beingcalled names. Certainly he's
been harassed by the police. Oh,absolutely. Yeah.
DB Crema (19:53):
What have you talked to your son about?
Gabe (19:56):
Well, like me when I was his age, when something happens
to him, he'll come to me tolook, you'll never guess what
happened. This happened. Why dothey always have to hate us? He
throws that one at me all thetime. You know, sometimes I'm a
little, I don't know what tosay. But, you know, oftentimes,
hey, look, man, you know, thisis something you're gonna have
(20:17):
to deal with. But don't let themtake you down, man. You know,
you have every right to be whereyou are, who you are. Fight for
what you want to do in life, youknow, this is your life. Don't
let anyone tell you what to do.
You know, when it comes to thecops, that's a whole other
thing. Like, we've talked abouthow to deal with the cops and
have an I.D. on all the time.
(20:39):
Put your hands out there, berespectful. But even if you do
that, and that's happened to metoo, even if you do, they don't
give a shit. They don't care.
They don't care if your handsare out the window. If you say,
Okay, look, now I'm going totake my hands off the wheel and
grab and get my idea what youknow, whatever. They don't care,
they do not care at all. Youknow? So we deal a lot with
that. He talks to me a lot aboutthat stuff. Yeah, we've talked a
(21:02):
lot about that. We didn't talk alot about this when I was
growing up. And I don't know howyou can't have those
conversations now your kids.
Especially in the currentclimate, it's awful now, it's
absolutely awful. So it makessense that these conversations
would be more, you know,commonplace than they were,
(21:25):
again, 20 or 30 years ago.
DB Crema (21:28):
It's more prevalent.
Gabe (21:30):
Yeah. And because, as I was mentioning earlier, because
of how I am now, my tolerancelevel is virtually non existent
at this point. So I tell my son,look, man, this is the way it
is. And I'm not going tosugarcoat it. I'm not gonna say,
look, it's going to be okay andif we work together, we can make
change. Fuck that. I'm just, Ijust, I do not feel that way
(21:52):
anymore. You know, I try to be aperson who embraces everybody,
you know. And no matter who youare, where you come from, what
you look like, who you sleepwith, who you, you know, what
you talk about, what you thinkand, and I want my son to be the
same way. But if, people don'taccept you... and I'm not going
to tolerate - those days areover, forget tolerate. If they
(22:17):
don't want to accept you, thenit's okay. You don't need them
in your life, you know? But ifthey want to keep you down from
advancing, if they want to, youknow oppress you in some way,
then that's where things have...
we got to take a stand. We gotto storm the castle, so to
speak. And those are the thingsI share with him right now. I
(22:38):
go, not everyone's gonna likeyou, maybe for who if you're an
asshole, you're an asshole. Butif you're a black asshole,
there's something differentthere. You know what I mean? You
know, you're unfortunately goingto have to live, this is what
I tell him, in a time whereeople just do not like you for t
e way you look. It's nothing
DB Crema (23:00):
Yeah. Yeah.
Gabe (23:02):
You know, I just know for me, I just hope that you know,
the rest of my time on thisplanet, you know, is good. Like
I hope for everybody. I hopefor you. I hope it's it's good
I hope for my son it's goo. You know, cuz he has his whole
life ahead of him. And I don'twant, I don't want him to have t
experience too much stuff.
ight now, it's pretty bad. But'm hopeful that we'll get
(23:24):
hrough this. I really am. Butf not, I'm ready to throw down.
DB Crema (23:39):
Thanks for listening to United States of Race. This
podcast was produced by me DBCrema. Our artwork is designed
by Aly Creative, and ourecordings are done via Squadc
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(24:02):
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. Until next time,
Even at that age, I knew there was a difference. I was
different. I knew I lookeddifferent from everyone. I knew
that our family looked differentfrom other families.
But I didn't understand why andit didn't really bother me,
because again, inside the house,we were all considered equals.
It was only outside, just how wewere treated or how I was
(00:31):
treated.
DB Crema (00:35):
This is United States of Race, personal stories of how
our earliest memories determinea lifetime of relationships.
Each episode features one guestsharing their experiences with
race. Listen, without prejudiceto their real, uninhibited
stories, because by sharing whenwe first learned we are all
different, we find the commonthread that shows us how much we
(00:58):
are all the same. I'm your hostDB Crema. Gabe is tired of
trying to make others feelcomfortable around him. And
after years of learning tosurvive in an unwelcome
environment. He wants to seeaction and change.
(01:19):
When did you become aware ofrace?
Gabe (01:22):
So we camped a lot when I was growing up, and we would go
everywhere all over the country,actually to camp. I remember
one, one incident where we werein, I think, Wyoming Cheyenne,
is that right? And I was atoddler at the time, walking
down the street holding mymother's hand. I think I was too
(01:43):
close to the edge of the curb.
And my father was a few stepsahead. And apparently, from what
I was told, I actually vaguelydo remember this, but the
circumstances behind it, I wastold later. There was a truck
that came speeding by and triedto hit me. My father happened to
be turned around talking to usboth, you know, because he was
(02:06):
in front of us at the time. Andhe saw the car coming, the truck
coming. And both he and mymother kind of jumped on me and
pulled me closer into the curb,and the car missed, s he, you
know, went off. And they didyell something out the window.
And you know, things like thathave happened. My father has
gotten into many, fisticuffs, ifyou will, over the fact of
(02:29):
having a black child. And that'shappened a fair amount of times
or not being accepted to thiscamp ground or any place for
that matter. Because you know,we don't want his kindhere. Or
why do you have a black son?
Then you're a traitor, so tospeak. That's happened, of
course, you know. You see thatall the time. But that's
(02:52):
happened to us quite a bit.
DB Crema (02:53):
You'd be turned away from campsite
because of it?
Gabe (02:56):
That, or restaurants or, yeah, absolutely. So, I'm mixed
race, I'm half white and black.
Both my parents are white, so Iwas adopted about one month old,
I think it was. And you canimagine that with those optics
living in the suburbs of Boston,in particular, there was quite a
(03:19):
bit to talk about, quite a bitto experience if you will, so.
My actual family was great. Myparents are very loving, very
affectionate, very supportive. Ihad a wonderful childhood, as
far as the family is concerned.
They didn't keep anything fromme. So we had very open dialogue
(03:40):
throughout my childhood. And wehad all kinds of people in and
out of the house, differentcultures and backgrounds and so
forth. So I lived in a veryopen, free environment, which
I'm very thankful for to thisday. And they didn't hide
anything from me. I will say,though, that I didn't have a lot
of knowledge of my culturalbackground, so to speak. And I
(04:01):
don't think it's because theychose not to immerse me in that
I think they just didn't knowhow to. And, you know, I wish
things were different in thatregard. But great childhood, no
complaints. I was generally ahappy kid. But the outside world
didn't see that. Inside thehouse, it was great. Outside is
a little different story.
DB Crema (04:20):
Why did your parents adopt you, a black child?
Gabe (04:23):
Well, if you ask either one of them, they'd say, well
because he was the mostbeautiful baby that we've ever
seen. They probably lost a bet,I don't know.
DB Crema (04:31):
I mean, knowing all the hardships that a black
child, a black male child, facesin this country. Why do your
parents choose to adopt a blackchild?
Gabe (04:40):
Yeah, I again, I don't think they chose
to adopt me because of anythingother than they couldn't have a
child. They wanted to have aninclusive family. It didn't
necessarily mean if theycouldn't have one themselves
physically, they just wanted tohave a child. So when it came
time for kids that wereavailable, you know, back then
(05:01):
this is the early 70s. So theydidn't, again, this is what they
told me. And you know, whoknows, but they said, you know,
they had a few options, but theylooked at me and they, they saw
that, that this is somethingthat they really wanted, and
that they thought I was, I wouldjust add to the family, and
they. I don't know, love atfirst sight. I guess, I really,
(05:23):
I couldn't tell you. But what Ican say is that any social
ramifications of doing so was
DB Crema (05:26):
What did your parents teach you about your identity,
really not top of mind withthem. They didn't seem to be
concerned about that, at thattime. They were more concerned
about having a kid. And whattype of kid didn't really matter
- male, female, Asian, Latina,didn't matter. They just wanted
a kid that they connected with.
And that's where I came along. Iwill say that, I think they
(05:46):
probably should have thought ofthat. But they didn't. Because
things did get fairly bad attimes. You know, again, this is
Boston. So in the early 70s,we're going through busing,
we're going through a lot ofsegregation, there's, you know,
a lot of communities that justdid not want any type of
integration whatsoever. So evenwithin their own families, you
(06:10):
know, we're dealing with, youknow, Irish, you know, that... I
didn't see my father's mother,so my grandmother, I guess - I
never called her that - untilwas 13. And the reason why
never saw her till I was 13, ibecause she didn't want to se
me. And that wasn't kept frome. That was not kept from me a
(06:32):
all. But when you're young, yoknow, I'm not getting
present this year. That's allou think about. You don't think
about, okay, she doesn't want tosee me because I'm black, or
that her son had a black kid. E, I don't care. Right? It
doesn't really bother me. Andit didn't. I think I am who I a
, is because I've had to learn tnot live with a lot of the sup
ort or a lot of these peoplen my life.
(07:00):
your cultural identity, yourrace, racial identity?
Gabe (07:03):
It was unfortunate, there was not a lot of exposure to my
cultural identity at all from myparents. As I mentioned before,
that it's not because theydidn't want to, it's I don't
think they were equipped to. Idon't think they knew how to.
And again, they wanted to giveme everything they could, they
wanted to give me everyopportunity every expose me to
everything and I was but I don'tthink they were equipped to kind
(07:25):
of hand over the reins toanother culture. Maybe they
thought that I would escape andI would forget where I was or
who they were. But yeah, I thinkfor the most part, the childhood
was was fine. It's once youventured out to other places,
going on vacation with thefamily. Wherever we would
(07:46):
travel, that's when I saw a lotof it, especially with two white
parents. And you know, it'sfunny, because, you know, I was
the type of kid and person whowas always caught in the middle
from the white community and theblack community. But generally,
it was me and hundreds of whitekids, predominately white
school, I think I was one of twoblack kids in the school. And
(08:10):
the strange dynamics about megrowing up in that environment
was that I was ostracized. But Iwas also, at some times,
considered almost a mascot, ifyou will. You know, clearly a
token. So I would be protected.
But I would also be harassedtoo. To a certain point, of
course, because towards midwaythrough high school, I got
really big, and all that stuffstopped. Let's just say that.
DB Crema (08:33):
That helps.
Gabe (08:33):
Which is great. Of course, this elevated when I got older
into, let's say pre-teens andstarted to date and whatnot.
Dating was a huge part of mygrowing up. Now, you can picture
that the suburbs arepredominantly white. And let's
(08:56):
just say that, that what wasavailable...I'm trying to be
very respectful here.
What wasavailable, were not not a
diversity as far as the datingpool. And the people I had
access to were, of course, youknow, white girls and whatnot.
Which is fine. There's nothingwrong with that, of course. But
the parents and the friends,they didn't like it. They didn't
(09:22):
like it at all. I can't tell youhow many times I've even met
parents, specifically fathers ofnot just girlfriends but
friends, both male and female,who just did not want me around.
And because when you're young,you make light of everything,
because you don't understand thegravity of what you're dealing
(09:42):
with. So let's say for example,I was out with a group of, let's
say six or eight people, and wewere wasting time at someone's
house. There would have to bethese strategic moves to let's
say, if the parents come home,where are we going to hide Gabe?
You know, what's he gonna do. So
DB Crema (09:57):
Hiding from them?
we would be carrying on anddoing what we're not supposed to
do. And then we'd see a car comeup. And you know then, shit,
there's the father and then Iwould make a mad dash for the
back. Now forget about dating adaughter that was always in
cloak and dagger mode. That thatwas, you know, meet somewhere,
don't let anyone know. Andfriends too. Friends of said
(10:20):
girlfriend, you know, becausthey could get back to th
parents or did you know?
Gabe (10:26):
Yes, exactly. And there were occasions where parents
would find out and threats weremade. You know, if you see Gabe,
then you know, you're done. Whatthat would mean? I don't know.
But I've had personal threatstoo. Well, if we see you with
(10:46):
him, we're gonna, we're gonnahang him or drag me by the car,
you know? Absolutely. Yep.
DB Crema (10:55):
Would they say this to you?
Gabe (10:57):
I have been told that face to face on a couple of
occasions. But I've heardthrough either the girlfriend
who I would no longer see movingforward, or the friends, the
communal friends, if you will.
That was just commonplace. Thathappened. One one particular
instance, where as I was sayingbefore, there was a group of
friends that we met at thisfriend's house. And she, it was
(11:22):
in the afternoon and her parens weren't home. I was, you know
it was like a Saturday aftrnoon, or what have you. I think
we were 15 or so. And we wereust sitting in the living room
nd drinking, of course, andoing things that we're probab
y shouldn't be doing. And te father and older brother did
ome home a bit earlier thanthey were expected. So what had
(11:43):
appened was, you know, survivl mode. Everyone started to f
eak out, clean up, but no one lft. But they suggested th
t I leave. So, you know, I've nver been to this house before
DB Crema (11:55):
It didn't matter that, um, that you had white parents?
What do you want me to do? Wht do you want me to go? I'm a fr
end too. I mean, the negotiaton necessarily didn't happe
that way. But, so I found my wato the kitchen, to the back do
r, and I hid out in the backyartill they came in. Apparent
y, the father was really uset just that there was people i
his house anyway. Okay. Thn he saw me through the window.
(12:20):
hat is he doing here? Who is tat? And I think they said, We
l, that's a friend of ours. Bythat time I was running throug
the yard, which in itselfis all kinds of stuff. And I
was you know, I was trying to ruback home because I lived a few
streets away. And apparntly, he and the older broth
(12:41):
r who was with him, they decidd to come after me. They wanted
to find me. So they got back ithe car. And they they drove
all the rest of the friends staed there. Because they we
e all white. And they went lookig for me. Apparently. They d
d not find me because I did makeit home okay. But I come to
find out later that that's wat they did. And they threaten t
(13:04):
e daughter, and they didn't evewant any of the other friends o
er again. And they certainlyidn't want me there again, so.
.
Gabe (13:16):
No, not at all. Not at all, because, what what people
see is what they say. I'm black.
So it doesn't matter where Icome from, who my parents are,
who I know, who I don't know.
They see black. They see I'm notlike them. They didn't care.
DB Crema (13:32):
Well, I mean, clearly no parent wants to come home and
find like a group of kidsdrinking in their house. But
it's telling that like, nobodyelse moved.
That's indicative.
Gabe (13:41):
Exactly.
But not only did they notmove, but think about it, they
didn't even have the foresightto think well, this is wrong.
You know, here's our friend whohas to do this, who has to
escape before something happens.
And we're just sitting here likenothing. I mean, I understand
this is a 15 year old brain. Sothey don't understand. They
don't, you know, they don't getthe social awareness. So they
don't, they don't understandsomething's wrong, something
(14:03):
could happen to one of theirfriends. And all they think of
is, well, as long as we just sitput and be silent, nothing's
gonna happen. They're not goingto call our parents or what have
you. But that's what it waslike, you know? And over time
you learn to... thesemechanisms, you learn over time
how to survive in this type ofenvironment. It's awful. It's
survival, but it's how life is,especially in that environment.
(14:27):
You know?
DB Crema (14:30):
Like, it doesn't matter where you're from,
doesn't matter if you grew upin... Your skin color is your
skin color, and that is the onlyfactor.
Gabe (14:37):
Exactly.
Oh man. Meeting parents for thefirst time. I mean, that's
that's a big one.
I was dating this this youngwoman quite a while ago, and it
got to the point in therelationship where she
desperately wanted me to meether parents. Having gone through
this many times before in thepast, that's not something I
want to do. You know,especially... I don't know if
(15:01):
it's a male thing or what, butit's definitely, it's definitely
not a black male thing when youwhen you're seeing a white
woman. It's just not in thecards. But you know, you got to
do it. And I remember havingdiscussions with her before the
actual dinner, you know, a fewdays before. You know, what's it
going to be like? Should we havean exit exit strategy, so forth?
You know. And she was not tooconcerned about it. Of course,
(15:25):
she was in this kind of, like,I'm so excited, he's gonna come
and I'm gonna mix the two worldstogether and all this... You
know, you don't understand. Ijust want to... you know, we'll
have a good time, I just want tounderstand what to expect. Okay?
No, don't worry about it. It'sall in your head. Now, let me
tell you that I've been told myentire life. It's all in your
head. No, it's not. It's, well,it might be in 13.9% of the
(15:51):
population in this country'shead, but it's their.
Apparently, her mother askedher... I'm sorry, this still
makes me chuckle. She had askedher, like, I think the day
before our dinner. She said, Youknow, I don't know what to do
when he comes to the door. Whatshould I expect? Is he going to
(16:14):
have a bone in his nose? She didsay that. What do they eat? Not
what do I eat? What do they eat?
She told me that, I was floored.
But I started to laugh. Itdidn't shock me at all.
And actually, just because of myreally bad humor and who I am as
(16:35):
a person, I actually thoughtabout showing up that night,
putting a bone in my nose. Ireally did. I didn't, because
that would just be all kinds ofa nightmare for everybody. But,
I didn't. And you know, it'sunfortunate, but people really
do think that way. And anythingto show the division between who
(16:56):
you are and they are, that's allthey can focus on. It goes far
beyond skin tone.
DB Crema (17:02):
Did things ever change for you? of how do you...
Gabe (17:07):
Yeah, you know, you get older, you have a different
perspective on life, you have adifferent perspective of your
surroundings. You learn how tonavigate things a lot easier in
life. But I'm well aware of thedivision that we have, not only
in this country, but just aroundthe world - how people see me. I
also don't care anymore. I don'tgive a shit anymore. I really
don't. You know, people justhate us so much. I can't get
(17:31):
over it. But now I found myselfgetting a lot more, I don't know
how to say this,...not angry,but forceful with with my cause
and how I want to handle things.
Let's just say that. I thinkit's about time. I'm not a
(17:52):
conversation person. I'm anaction person. I don't want to
hear anyone talk. I don't wantto sit down at the table. And I
don't want to discuss how we canmove forward. I'm done. I'm done
with that. I want action. We'vetalked for over 200 years, I
don't want to deal with itanymore. You know, it's just not
who I am...now.
DB Crema (18:12):
What do you mean by you're more forceful? I mean,
like, what do you mean by takingaction?
Gabe (18:18):
What I mean by forceful is that, you know, my tolerance
level for any kind ofinteraction that might go south
is, I just, I don't tend tolaugh it off these days, I tend
to get more involved. I'mexhausted, I don't have the
fight me to make certain groupshappy to make them feel
(18:39):
comfortable when they're aroundme. I mean, for most of my life,
I had to do that, which I doknow, a lot of people of color
have to do that. I mean, youknow, be it a job interview or
going to the store or, you know,you know, always taking the
brunt of a situation that mightgo south. Oh, that's me. That's
my bad, you know, when it's not,you know, that kind of B.S.. I
mean, I'm not doing it, youknow, but after a while, you
(19:02):
know, making yourself small and,in the background or, you know,
not seen. I'm done with allthat, you know, I don't want to
live my life anymore like that.
I've had to do that for 40 plusyears. It's just not...I don't
want to do it. I'm done. So, ifsomething goes south, I think my
reactions to that....they'regoing to be a little different.
DB Crema (19:26):
Mm hmm.
Gabe (19:27):
But you know, it's funny because I'm seeing all this
stuff happen now with my son.
And we often talk about whathe's going through. And it
brings me right back to when Iwas his age. He's dealing with
the same stuff - meetingparents, groups of people, being
shunned by this group, beingcalled names. Certainly he's
been harassed by the police. Oh,absolutely. Yeah.
DB Crema (19:53):
What have you talked to your son about?
Gabe (19:56):
Well, like me when I was his age, when something happens
to him, he'll come to me tolook, you'll never guess what
happened. This happened. Why dothey always have to hate us? He
throws that one at me all thetime. You know, sometimes I'm a
little, I don't know what tosay. But, you know, oftentimes,
hey, look, man, you know, thisis something you're gonna have
(20:17):
to deal with. But don't let themtake you down, man. You know,
you have every right to be whereyou are, who you are. Fight for
what you want to do in life, youknow, this is your life. Don't
let anyone tell you what to do.
You know, when it comes to thecops, that's a whole other
thing. Like, we've talked abouthow to deal with the cops and
have an I.D. on all the time.
(20:39):
Put your hands out there, berespectful. But even if you do
that, and that's happened to metoo, even if you do, they don't
give a shit. They don't care.
They don't care if your handsare out the window. If you say,
Okay, look, now I'm going totake my hands off the wheel and
grab and get my idea what youknow, whatever. They don't care,
they do not care at all. Youknow? So we deal a lot with
that. He talks to me a lot aboutthat stuff. Yeah, we've talked a
(21:02):
lot about that. We didn't talk alot about this when I was
growing up. And I don't know howyou can't have those
conversations now your kids.
Especially in the currentclimate, it's awful now, it's
absolutely awful. So it makessense that these conversations
would be more, you know,commonplace than they were,
(21:25):
again, 20 or 30 years ago.
DB Crema (21:28):
It's more prevalent.
Gabe (21:30):
Yeah. And because, as I was mentioning earlier, because
of how I am now, my tolerancelevel is virtually non existent
at this point. So I tell my son,look, man, this is the way it
is. And I'm not going tosugarcoat it. I'm not gonna say,
look, it's going to be okay andif we work together, we can make
change. Fuck that. I'm just, Ijust, I do not feel that way
(21:52):
anymore. You know, I try to be aperson who embraces everybody,
you know. And no matter who youare, where you come from, what
you look like, who you sleepwith, who you, you know, what
you talk about, what you thinkand, and I want my son to be the
same way. But if, people don'taccept you... and I'm not going
to tolerate - those days areover, forget tolerate. If they
(22:17):
don't want to accept you, thenit's okay. You don't need them
in your life, you know? But ifthey want to keep you down from
advancing, if they want to, youknow oppress you in some way,
then that's where things have...
we got to take a stand. We gotto storm the castle, so to
speak. And those are the thingsI share with him right now. I
(22:38):
go, not everyone's gonna likeyou, maybe for who if you're an
asshole, you're an asshole. Butif you're a black asshole,
there's something differentthere. You know what I mean? You
know, you're unfortunately goingto have to live, this is what
I tell him, in a time whereeople just do not like you for t
e way you look. It's nothing
DB Crema (23:00):
Yeah. Yeah.
Gabe (23:02):
You know, I just know for me, I just hope that you know,
the rest of my time on thisplanet, you know, is good. Like
I hope for everybody. I hopefor you. I hope it's it's good
I hope for my son it's goo. You know, cuz he has his whole
life ahead of him. And I don'twant, I don't want him to have t
experience too much stuff.
ight now, it's pretty bad. But'm hopeful that we'll get
(23:24):
hrough this. I really am. Butf not, I'm ready to throw down.
DB Crema (23:39):
Thanks for listening to United States of Race. This
podcast was produced by me DBCrema. Our artwork is designed
by Aly Creative, and ourecordings are done via Squadc
stFM. With everything being reote these days, Squadcast del
vers studio quality remote recrding for all your podcast nee
s. If you love great stoytelling, you can follow Uni
(24:02):
ed States of Race on Spoify, Apple podcasts, or whe
ever you get your podcasts. Anshow us some love by rating an
writing a review on Apple Podcats are Podchaser. You can also s
are this podcast with your fiends, and anyone who believ
s in the power of buildig connection through sharin
personal stories. And you cafollow us on Instagram at uni
(24:24):
edstatesofrace. And as always, iyou, Yes, you, have a compellin
story to share and would liketo be featured in an upcom
ng episode. Send us a message atunitedstatesofrace@gmail.co
. Until next time,
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