February 8, 2021 • 20 mins
Akeem gets conflicting input about his race when he has to pick a box to check on the state aptitude test, triggering decades of questioning whether he wants to be in the box people put him in.
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Akeem (00:10):
I think the hard part is realizing that my kids are going
to be even more American thanme. Like when I was a kid, we
went to Iraq twice. And I havethese fond memories of these
people who didn't speak Englishgiving me more kisses that I
knew were possible, like, Okay,this is what I am. And this is
the food that we eat at home.
And this is the music that welisten to. And my kids are going
to be like, we went to PalmSprings.
DB Crema (00:35):
This is United States of Race, personal stories of how
our earliest memories determinea lifetime of relationships. I'm
your host, DB Crema.
So when did you become aware ofrace?
Akeem (00:55):
Well, I don't know. But when I was in fourth grade, we
had to do the Illinois Stateacademic testing, you know, let
you do that, like, I don't know,every other grade. And that was
the first time I had to put downon a form like what race right
you. And I raised my hand. So Iwent to, I grew up in a very,
(01:17):
what they would consider adiverse town, outside of
Chicago. So it wasn't likeeveryone was white, or something
like that. But it was very muchblack and white. So it was like
40% Black, 40% White, and it'slike 10 to 20% of everything
else. And I remember raising myhand and saying, I don't know
(01:38):
what to put, right. Like,seriously, and my teacher looks
at me and he says, You're surenot white. Like, that was
my...He's like, I don't knowwhat you are either. But you're
not white. Right? And who knows?
Was he racist? Or was he youknow, just an asshole? It sounds
(01:58):
like he was just an asshole.
From what I remember, he wasjust an asshole. Because you
don't really say that to afourth grader or third grader.
And if he had some, you know,self awareness, he just be like,
I don't know, this isinteresting question. Let's turn
this into a lesson and how wecan appreciate the fact that
there's more than just black andwhite in the world. But not like
(02:20):
not, you're just not white dude.
Figure it out. Sucks to be you.
DB Crema (02:25):
You're on your own.
Akeem (02:26):
Yeah. So I was like, Well, I was like, I guess I'm
black. Right? So I was black tothe state of Illinois until
like, the next time we need totake a test two years later. So
I remember the kid sitting nextto me was black. And I was like,
would you put and he's like, Iput black and he was clearly
black. You know? Like, there wasno like, Oh, you know, where the
(02:48):
other kids who don't literallylook like anyone put. He was
like, I put black and I waslike, Well, I'm not white. And
I'm not Pacific Islander. So Iwas black. And I remember going
home and talking to my mom aboutit. And I was like, Hey, Mom,
this happened. And she's like,Ha, Ha ha ha ha. My mom has a
very strange relationship withrace. And so she's like, we're
white. And I was like, "Oh, noone told me." And I'm like, My
(03:12):
teacher said that I'm not. And Idon't really feel like that's
accurate. I think that afterthat point in time, and I didn't
put you know, I just put whiteafter that, as my mom was like,
yeah, we're white.
DB Crema (03:26):
Talk to me about being white. So why were you guys
white? Why weren't youconsidered something else like
Akeem (03:31):
So I think that by law, Arabs are still considered
Caucasian. So like on a census,I'm still considered Caucasian.
Even though this was like thefirst year that I could put
something separate, you canwrite in, I actually got into a
big fight with my wife aboutthis, right? Because my wife
filled out the census withouttalking to me, and I actually
(03:51):
was became very, like,researching this. And this is
something that I had someinterest in is to say, this was
the first year that they had aspace to be like, well, if you
don't fit into any of theseother categories, tell us what
you are. And there was actuallya pretty reasonable size push in
some of the Arabic communitiesto say no, we need to be counted
(04:12):
and put Arab or put you know,Iraqi or put something in that
spot so that we can have an ideaof how many Arabs are in this
country. And we don't fit intothe the the Caucasian box. But
this is the first time and soyeah, technically by law, I'm
Caucasian. Growing up that wasalso it was literally like black
(04:36):
and white. And you I don't wantto say you chose sides, but you
like fit into sort of onesituation or the other, like my
brother's two, three years olderthan me. And he totally was more
white culturally than I was,like, from the music he listened
to to the girls that he dated toeverything, he liked white
stuff. He dated, exclusivelywhite women and I dated
(04:59):
exclusively, not white women. Helistened to The Smiths and The
Cure, and I listened to hip hop,and I have no idea why, we're
three years apart. And then whenI went to college, I then
appreciated, I'm like, Oh, youcan like both? You don't have to
choose one. Because there's morethan just two. Right?
DB Crema (05:21):
Turns out, you can like both flavors.
Akeem (05:23):
Exactly. Usually out there. Like there's another
flavor out there you never evenheard of. And when I got to
college, is when I really met agroup of people who also didn't
fit in any categories. And thatwas the first time where I was
like, oh, there are other peoplewho are in this group. And then
that sort of became my group wasthe, like the other you fill in
(05:45):
the blank, right? So everyonewas kind of different. But we
all filled in the blank a littlebit differently.
DB Crema (05:51):
What did it feel like when you say you weren't, you
weren't... it was made clear toyou that you weren't white and
you weren't treated as such?
Like, what was your experience?
Akeem (05:59):
I mean, it never resonated with me that I was
white because I didn't feelculturally or that I looked
white, or that I was treatedwhite. And I didn't even know
what that meant. But I just knewthat I was different. I was not
what the majority was. And, youknow, that whole idea of I don't
(06:20):
fit in was a pervasive part ofmy childhood. You know, I knew
that I was different. I knewthat I when I went home, the
food was different. And thesmells were different. And, you
know, the way we treated our dogwas different. And there's a few
times I remember growing up,were just the feeling of saying
(06:40):
that you're different, and thatyou're not what we are, was
pointed out to me, I remember, Iremember being in grammar school
as well. And we had to do like afamily tree. And I did a family
tree, and we had to put togethera presentation. And the teacher
was like, well, you, you forgotto put an oil rig on your
(07:02):
presentation. And I was like, Idon't think my family has
anything to do with oil. Andshe's like, oh, but everyone
there has something to do withoils, you should put an oil rig
on your presentation and drew...
like put an oil rig, likeprominently in the middle of my
presentation about being fromIraq. And these teachers didn't
realize the power that they hadto categorize you when you were
(07:24):
in third grade. And that'shorrible. And like, yeah, you
think that fucking guy who toldme I don't know what the fuck
you are, but you're not whitewas not biased about how he
treated me in class. You know,there's no way. But at the same
time, I don't really want tothink about that and say, oh,
what could have happened? Orwhat could I have been, if I was
white? Because I hate that. AndI don't want to think about it
(07:51):
like that. Like, if I was white,could I, would I've been in the
AP classes? Would I have gone toa better college? Would I have
gotten a better letter ofrecommendation? Would a teacher
have taken more interest in me?
What werethe possibilities if Ihad been treated equally? And I
don't want to think about that.
I don't want to think that Ididn't live up to any potential
(08:12):
that I had, or that these peoplehad that much control over me.
Like, yeah, that guy was ateacher, I was an asshole. And
he probably had a negativeeffect on my life. And there was
probably a lot of people likethat, on the path to get here.
But I did all right, you know,doing okay.
DB Crema (08:29):
Can't think of a more perfect way to put it.
Akeem (08:31):
That's kind of what it's been with my kids because my
wife is half black, half white.
And my kids are thereforequarter white quarter black and
half Arab. I think that when Idiscuss with them race and such,
or not even that, I think whenthe world interacts with them, I
think like the kids in theirschool and the other parents, I
think they look at them not asblack at all. Like they don't
see that. You know, I don'tthink... I'm not saying my kids
(08:56):
don't see that. I'm saying thatthe people in the world around
them don't see them as being atall black. I'm not sure why, I
just don't think that that's theway that they're seen. They're
seen as brown. So probably like,you know, me more so than my
wife who is you know, she'sprobably looked at and seen and
(09:16):
people think she's black, exceptfor when she was with me, and
she's like, there's like no waythat you know, you could meet a
girl that good looking who had achoice or something like that,
so...no, seriously. So they lookat my wife and they think she's
black. And she's got, you know,a fro, and you know, dark skin.
And then they look at me andthey're like you're not black,
(09:40):
but we don't know what you are.
And then they look at my kidsand they're like, they're
probably more like his kids. SoI think that they haven't had it
thrust upon them in a way thatmaybe other kids have. Because I
think that people they make thatsplit judgment of how you look.
People like to put that you'reblack, you're white, you're
(10:00):
Hispanic. You know, like, whatbox do you check? What box can I
put you into? My kids don't fitin that, right? So...
DB Crema (10:10):
I mean, so okay, so they're being looked at as
people of color. So rather thanblack and like what you mean by
brown.
Akeem (10:16):
Yeah. It's also strange.
I mean, so my wife is halfblack, half white, but she was
raised by her mother who'swhite. So culturally, she's
white. I mean, she's more white.
I'm, I'm more black than she is.
Not true, but you know what Imean. Like, culturally, it's...
there's also not just thevisual, but the cultural aspect
(10:39):
of it.
DB Crema (10:42):
Right
Akeem (10:43):
You know, when I was talking about how my mom has
such a weird relationship withrace, and it sort of relates to
how she dealt with race when wewere growing up, was that ...so
my parents are from Iraq,originally. My dad's mom is
Persian, from Iran. And to somedegree, you know, she was darker
(11:05):
and, and my mom's family islight. And they always said
they're Arab. Your dad's side ofthe family's Persian. And it's
so weird for them to be like,racist against Persians because
you can't tell a damndifference, right? And then,
this is where it's where thekicker is, so my sister did the
23andme. And guess who's 90%Persian? Me and my sister, which
(11:28):
means my mom is a majorityPersian. So I said this to her.
I was like, does this make youfeel different? And she's like,
we're not Persian. I was like,Yes, we are. We have a blood
test that says that our genesare Persian. No, we're Arab.
We're Arab. You know, and she'slike, I sunburn. So I thought I
had this epiphany when I waslike, oh, genetic testing,
(11:51):
that's going to change how weall view this, because you're
going to have a piece of paperbe like, Oh, you're a white
dude. Guess what? Someone downthe line slept with someone and
you got a whole shit ton of Arabblood in you. And now you're
going to realize that yourconcept of race is bullshit. And
then I saw what my mom'sreaction was? And I was like,
(12:12):
Oh, no, that's not gonna happen.
Like, that's not how people aregoing to react, they're gonna be
like, nope, science is notcorrect. I don't care.
DB Crema (12:20):
But you know, what's funny, too, is listening to
this, and I'm like, because it'soutside of our socialized norm.
It all sounds ridiculous. Likewhat like, Why? Why is that even
an issue? And so we look at itand from from the outside, we're
like, well, that's stupid whenwe do the exact same fucking
thing here. To me, asnd I'mguessing 90% of Americans
(12:41):
listening to this would thinkbut Persian, Arab, Iraqi, it's
all the same.
Akeem (12:46):
Yeah. Like I can't tell the difference.
DB Crema (12:48):
Right. Right. So, being Arab in the US is not
easy.
Akeem (12:56):
It's better than being Arab in Iraq. I don't know.
That's debatable, I guess,right?
DB Crema (13:03):
Post 9/11 and such, what was that like?
Akeem (13:08):
9/11. I was a second year medical student and we had our
tests at that point of time,they were trying to prepare us
for our, our board exam. So wetook all of our tests all at
once. So we take nine hours ofexam. And so on September 11th,
we were taking an exam in thebasement of the hospital. I
(13:28):
remember one of the otherstudents walking out and coming
up to the proctor who was thisold dude who's like, you know,
these planes flew into thisbuilding. He's like, yeah, yeah,
whatever, sit down and finishyour damn test, right? And he's
like, No, I can't do that. I'mgetting up and leaving. We're
all like looking around. Whatthe hell. And so we finished our
test. And everyone sort ofworked our way to the student
lounge afterwards. And therewas, like, 40 or 50 of us. And
(13:51):
we're all sitting there watchingeverything happen. And I
remember distinctly studentsbeing like, you know, the most
racist shit that you can thinkof and hear coming from med
students' mouth. That was alsothe place where there's people
who were driving around lookingfor people who looked like me to
beat up and there was a fewIndian dudes, Sikh guys who got
(14:13):
beaten up, right. And everyonewas always like, well, they
don't even got the right people.
And I was like, so if they gotme instead, would it be okay,
because I'm the one that they'relooking for. You're just not
finding the right person to beatup. But the hardest thing for me
is that I think that afterSeptember 11th, there was sort
(14:33):
of this whole entire, we're allAmerican ganging up against the
other, and that included blackpeople. And that hurt. Like that
hurt more than white peoplesaying it. Because they were
always treated like shit. And Iwould always commiserate with
that and be like, yeah, we'reboth treated like shit. We're
(14:54):
gonna get through it. It's gonnabe alright. But it did feel bad
when black people would, wouldbe, we're no longer the lowest.
Because I was like, You knowwhat, it hurts when someone says
something bad about you, but ithurts when someone who knows
what it feels like says thatabout you. I think that growing
up Iraqi really made itdifficult to feel home in this
(15:21):
country. Like I don't reallyfeel like that's... I don't have
patriotism towards this country.
But it's hard. I mean, thiscountry is responsible for
destroying the country myparents are from, you know. Not
completely and totally byitself, you know, and that's why
I say, Oh, it's better to be anArab here than it is to be in
Iraq. Because Yeah, my my familywho lives in Iraq, it's
(15:42):
horrible. I mean, there's beenpeople kidnapped, there's been
people tortured... cousins, youknow. And it's hard to be rah
rah for the American militaryand thank people for their
service when they went andhelped destroy the place where
my family's from. And it's alsohard because there is no home
anymore. And that's what'shappening, I think, to my family
(16:05):
now. It's like, they're refugeesall over the world. There's no
sense of who you're related towho you're not related to. And
it, it really strips you of youridentity. And when it happens
over generations, I think thatyou're then left without an
identity, and you try to form itagain. I'm trying to do that
(16:25):
with my own kids like to havethem not lose that. But I don't
know how successful I can be.
Because where do you go tovisit? Who do you go to see?
Whose grandparents grave do yougo see when there is not? You
know. But it's also hard to feelAmerican per se. But then I go
there. And guess what, I'mfucking American. I'm serious.
(16:47):
Like, culturally, culturally.
DB Crema (16:58):
Is there ever... I don't know if I have a question.
Do you ever have a space whereyou feel like you fit in? Or are
you feel accepted?
Akeem (17:10):
Well, there's a few things that I wanted to sort of
mention. Most of them have to dowith like being a doctor.
Because there's been multipletimes where I've had patients be
like, I don't want you to be mydoctor just based off of my
name, or what I look like. I'vehad patients with like blatant,
(17:31):
you know, white supremacisttattoos all over them, come into
the emergency room and take careof them. And I think the hardest
part is I've had like otherdoctors who said, like, off the
wall, like really racist shit.
I've had other doctors whorefuse to shake my hand. But
I've always been proud of,especially with patients of
(17:52):
being like, I'm here to treateveryone. Like I remember, one
guy coming in. And, you know, Ihad to cut right through his
swastika in order to do asurgery, you know, and I was
like, I'm not going to thinkabout this person as being any
different. And I've always takensome pride in thinking that it
doesn't matter how other peopletreat you, you got to treat
(18:16):
everyone the same. And I want tobe known as a doctor who it
doesn't matter because there'splenty of people out there who
probably do not like me based onwhat I am. But I don't want that
to interfere how I interact withthem as taking care of them and,
and try to see the humanity andeveryone. And that's been
helpful in trying to deal withrace as I get older is to say,
(18:39):
people get to be in desperatepositions. And I think my role
in this world is to help peopleand to try to do that, to the
best of my ability no matter howthey would treat me if the roles
were reversed and being okaywith that, and actually being
proud of that.
DB Crema (19:02):
Thanks for listening to United States of Race. This
podcast was written and producedby me, DB Crema. Thank you to
Aly Creative for designing ourartwork. And to Nick D and Nick
S, for technical support. If youlove great storytelling, please
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(19:25):
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(19:46):
always, if you Yes, you have acompelling story to share, and
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message atunitedstatesofrace@gmail.com
Until next time
I think the hard part is realizing that my kids are going
to be even more American thanme. Like when I was a kid, we
went to Iraq twice. And I havethese fond memories of these
people who didn't speak Englishgiving me more kisses that I
knew were possible, like, Okay,this is what I am. And this is
the food that we eat at home.
And this is the music that welisten to. And my kids are going
to be like, we went to PalmSprings.
DB Crema (00:35):
This is United States of Race, personal stories of how
our earliest memories determinea lifetime of relationships. I'm
your host, DB Crema.
So when did you become aware ofrace?
Akeem (00:55):
Well, I don't know. But when I was in fourth grade, we
had to do the Illinois Stateacademic testing, you know, let
you do that, like, I don't know,every other grade. And that was
the first time I had to put downon a form like what race right
you. And I raised my hand. So Iwent to, I grew up in a very,
(01:17):
what they would consider adiverse town, outside of
Chicago. So it wasn't likeeveryone was white, or something
like that. But it was very muchblack and white. So it was like
40% Black, 40% White, and it'slike 10 to 20% of everything
else. And I remember raising myhand and saying, I don't know
(01:38):
what to put, right. Like,seriously, and my teacher looks
at me and he says, You're surenot white. Like, that was
my...He's like, I don't knowwhat you are either. But you're
not white. Right? And who knows?
Was he racist? Or was he youknow, just an asshole? It sounds
(01:58):
like he was just an asshole.
From what I remember, he wasjust an asshole. Because you
don't really say that to afourth grader or third grader.
And if he had some, you know,self awareness, he just be like,
I don't know, this isinteresting question. Let's turn
this into a lesson and how wecan appreciate the fact that
there's more than just black andwhite in the world. But not like
(02:20):
not, you're just not white dude.
Figure it out. Sucks to be you.
DB Crema (02:25):
You're on your own.
Akeem (02:26):
Yeah. So I was like, Well, I was like, I guess I'm
black. Right? So I was black tothe state of Illinois until
like, the next time we need totake a test two years later. So
I remember the kid sitting nextto me was black. And I was like,
would you put and he's like, Iput black and he was clearly
black. You know? Like, there wasno like, Oh, you know, where the
(02:48):
other kids who don't literallylook like anyone put. He was
like, I put black and I waslike, Well, I'm not white. And
I'm not Pacific Islander. So Iwas black. And I remember going
home and talking to my mom aboutit. And I was like, Hey, Mom,
this happened. And she's like,Ha, Ha ha ha ha. My mom has a
very strange relationship withrace. And so she's like, we're
white. And I was like, "Oh, noone told me." And I'm like, My
(03:12):
teacher said that I'm not. And Idon't really feel like that's
accurate. I think that afterthat point in time, and I didn't
put you know, I just put whiteafter that, as my mom was like,
yeah, we're white.
DB Crema (03:26):
Talk to me about being white. So why were you guys
white? Why weren't youconsidered something else like
Akeem (03:31):
So I think that by law, Arabs are still considered
Caucasian. So like on a census,I'm still considered Caucasian.
Even though this was like thefirst year that I could put
something separate, you canwrite in, I actually got into a
big fight with my wife aboutthis, right? Because my wife
filled out the census withouttalking to me, and I actually
(03:51):
was became very, like,researching this. And this is
something that I had someinterest in is to say, this was
the first year that they had aspace to be like, well, if you
don't fit into any of theseother categories, tell us what
you are. And there was actuallya pretty reasonable size push in
some of the Arabic communitiesto say no, we need to be counted
(04:12):
and put Arab or put you know,Iraqi or put something in that
spot so that we can have an ideaof how many Arabs are in this
country. And we don't fit intothe the the Caucasian box. But
this is the first time and soyeah, technically by law, I'm
Caucasian. Growing up that wasalso it was literally like black
(04:36):
and white. And you I don't wantto say you chose sides, but you
like fit into sort of onesituation or the other, like my
brother's two, three years olderthan me. And he totally was more
white culturally than I was,like, from the music he listened
to to the girls that he dated toeverything, he liked white
stuff. He dated, exclusivelywhite women and I dated
(04:59):
exclusively, not white women. Helistened to The Smiths and The
Cure, and I listened to hip hop,and I have no idea why, we're
three years apart. And then whenI went to college, I then
appreciated, I'm like, Oh, youcan like both? You don't have to
choose one. Because there's morethan just two. Right?
DB Crema (05:21):
Turns out, you can like both flavors.
Akeem (05:23):
Exactly. Usually out there. Like there's another
flavor out there you never evenheard of. And when I got to
college, is when I really met agroup of people who also didn't
fit in any categories. And thatwas the first time where I was
like, oh, there are other peoplewho are in this group. And then
that sort of became my group wasthe, like the other you fill in
(05:45):
the blank, right? So everyonewas kind of different. But we
all filled in the blank a littlebit differently.
DB Crema (05:51):
What did it feel like when you say you weren't, you
weren't... it was made clear toyou that you weren't white and
you weren't treated as such?
Like, what was your experience?
Akeem (05:59):
I mean, it never resonated with me that I was
white because I didn't feelculturally or that I looked
white, or that I was treatedwhite. And I didn't even know
what that meant. But I just knewthat I was different. I was not
what the majority was. And, youknow, that whole idea of I don't
(06:20):
fit in was a pervasive part ofmy childhood. You know, I knew
that I was different. I knewthat I when I went home, the
food was different. And thesmells were different. And, you
know, the way we treated our dogwas different. And there's a few
times I remember growing up,were just the feeling of saying
(06:40):
that you're different, and thatyou're not what we are, was
pointed out to me, I remember, Iremember being in grammar school
as well. And we had to do like afamily tree. And I did a family
tree, and we had to put togethera presentation. And the teacher
was like, well, you, you forgotto put an oil rig on your
(07:02):
presentation. And I was like, Idon't think my family has
anything to do with oil. Andshe's like, oh, but everyone
there has something to do withoils, you should put an oil rig
on your presentation and drew...
like put an oil rig, likeprominently in the middle of my
presentation about being fromIraq. And these teachers didn't
realize the power that they hadto categorize you when you were
(07:24):
in third grade. And that'shorrible. And like, yeah, you
think that fucking guy who toldme I don't know what the fuck
you are, but you're not whitewas not biased about how he
treated me in class. You know,there's no way. But at the same
time, I don't really want tothink about that and say, oh,
what could have happened? Orwhat could I have been, if I was
white? Because I hate that. AndI don't want to think about it
(07:51):
like that. Like, if I was white,could I, would I've been in the
AP classes? Would I have gone toa better college? Would I have
gotten a better letter ofrecommendation? Would a teacher
have taken more interest in me?
What werethe possibilities if Ihad been treated equally? And I
don't want to think about that.
I don't want to think that Ididn't live up to any potential
(08:12):
that I had, or that these peoplehad that much control over me.
Like, yeah, that guy was ateacher, I was an asshole. And
he probably had a negativeeffect on my life. And there was
probably a lot of people likethat, on the path to get here.
But I did all right, you know,doing okay.
DB Crema (08:29):
Can't think of a more perfect way to put it.
Akeem (08:31):
That's kind of what it's been with my kids because my
wife is half black, half white.
And my kids are thereforequarter white quarter black and
half Arab. I think that when Idiscuss with them race and such,
or not even that, I think whenthe world interacts with them, I
think like the kids in theirschool and the other parents, I
think they look at them not asblack at all. Like they don't
see that. You know, I don'tthink... I'm not saying my kids
(08:56):
don't see that. I'm saying thatthe people in the world around
them don't see them as being atall black. I'm not sure why, I
just don't think that that's theway that they're seen. They're
seen as brown. So probably like,you know, me more so than my
wife who is you know, she'sprobably looked at and seen and
(09:16):
people think she's black, exceptfor when she was with me, and
she's like, there's like no waythat you know, you could meet a
girl that good looking who had achoice or something like that,
so...no, seriously. So they lookat my wife and they think she's
black. And she's got, you know,a fro, and you know, dark skin.
And then they look at me andthey're like you're not black,
(09:40):
but we don't know what you are.
And then they look at my kidsand they're like, they're
probably more like his kids. SoI think that they haven't had it
thrust upon them in a way thatmaybe other kids have. Because I
think that people they make thatsplit judgment of how you look.
People like to put that you'reblack, you're white, you're
(10:00):
Hispanic. You know, like, whatbox do you check? What box can I
put you into? My kids don't fitin that, right? So...
DB Crema (10:10):
I mean, so okay, so they're being looked at as
people of color. So rather thanblack and like what you mean by
brown.
Akeem (10:16):
Yeah. It's also strange.
I mean, so my wife is halfblack, half white, but she was
raised by her mother who'swhite. So culturally, she's
white. I mean, she's more white.
I'm, I'm more black than she is.
Not true, but you know what Imean. Like, culturally, it's...
there's also not just thevisual, but the cultural aspect
(10:39):
of it.
DB Crema (10:42):
Right
Akeem (10:43):
You know, when I was talking about how my mom has
such a weird relationship withrace, and it sort of relates to
how she dealt with race when wewere growing up, was that ...so
my parents are from Iraq,originally. My dad's mom is
Persian, from Iran. And to somedegree, you know, she was darker
(11:05):
and, and my mom's family islight. And they always said
they're Arab. Your dad's side ofthe family's Persian. And it's
so weird for them to be like,racist against Persians because
you can't tell a damndifference, right? And then,
this is where it's where thekicker is, so my sister did the
23andme. And guess who's 90%Persian? Me and my sister, which
(11:28):
means my mom is a majorityPersian. So I said this to her.
I was like, does this make youfeel different? And she's like,
we're not Persian. I was like,Yes, we are. We have a blood
test that says that our genesare Persian. No, we're Arab.
We're Arab. You know, and she'slike, I sunburn. So I thought I
had this epiphany when I waslike, oh, genetic testing,
(11:51):
that's going to change how weall view this, because you're
going to have a piece of paperbe like, Oh, you're a white
dude. Guess what? Someone downthe line slept with someone and
you got a whole shit ton of Arabblood in you. And now you're
going to realize that yourconcept of race is bullshit. And
then I saw what my mom'sreaction was? And I was like,
(12:12):
Oh, no, that's not gonna happen.
Like, that's not how people aregoing to react, they're gonna be
like, nope, science is notcorrect. I don't care.
DB Crema (12:20):
But you know, what's funny, too, is listening to
this, and I'm like, because it'soutside of our socialized norm.
It all sounds ridiculous. Likewhat like, Why? Why is that even
an issue? And so we look at itand from from the outside, we're
like, well, that's stupid whenwe do the exact same fucking
thing here. To me, asnd I'mguessing 90% of Americans
(12:41):
listening to this would thinkbut Persian, Arab, Iraqi, it's
all the same.
Akeem (12:46):
Yeah. Like I can't tell the difference.
DB Crema (12:48):
Right. Right. So, being Arab in the US is not
easy.
Akeem (12:56):
It's better than being Arab in Iraq. I don't know.
That's debatable, I guess,right?
DB Crema (13:03):
Post 9/11 and such, what was that like?
Akeem (13:08):
9/11. I was a second year medical student and we had our
tests at that point of time,they were trying to prepare us
for our, our board exam. So wetook all of our tests all at
once. So we take nine hours ofexam. And so on September 11th,
we were taking an exam in thebasement of the hospital. I
(13:28):
remember one of the otherstudents walking out and coming
up to the proctor who was thisold dude who's like, you know,
these planes flew into thisbuilding. He's like, yeah, yeah,
whatever, sit down and finishyour damn test, right? And he's
like, No, I can't do that. I'mgetting up and leaving. We're
all like looking around. Whatthe hell. And so we finished our
test. And everyone sort ofworked our way to the student
lounge afterwards. And therewas, like, 40 or 50 of us. And
(13:51):
we're all sitting there watchingeverything happen. And I
remember distinctly studentsbeing like, you know, the most
racist shit that you can thinkof and hear coming from med
students' mouth. That was alsothe place where there's people
who were driving around lookingfor people who looked like me to
beat up and there was a fewIndian dudes, Sikh guys who got
(14:13):
beaten up, right. And everyonewas always like, well, they
don't even got the right people.
And I was like, so if they gotme instead, would it be okay,
because I'm the one that they'relooking for. You're just not
finding the right person to beatup. But the hardest thing for me
is that I think that afterSeptember 11th, there was sort
(14:33):
of this whole entire, we're allAmerican ganging up against the
other, and that included blackpeople. And that hurt. Like that
hurt more than white peoplesaying it. Because they were
always treated like shit. And Iwould always commiserate with
that and be like, yeah, we'reboth treated like shit. We're
(14:54):
gonna get through it. It's gonnabe alright. But it did feel bad
when black people would, wouldbe, we're no longer the lowest.
Because I was like, You knowwhat, it hurts when someone says
something bad about you, but ithurts when someone who knows
what it feels like says thatabout you. I think that growing
up Iraqi really made itdifficult to feel home in this
(15:21):
country. Like I don't reallyfeel like that's... I don't have
patriotism towards this country.
But it's hard. I mean, thiscountry is responsible for
destroying the country myparents are from, you know. Not
completely and totally byitself, you know, and that's why
I say, Oh, it's better to be anArab here than it is to be in
Iraq. Because Yeah, my my familywho lives in Iraq, it's
(15:42):
horrible. I mean, there's beenpeople kidnapped, there's been
people tortured... cousins, youknow. And it's hard to be rah
rah for the American militaryand thank people for their
service when they went andhelped destroy the place where
my family's from. And it's alsohard because there is no home
anymore. And that's what'shappening, I think, to my family
(16:05):
now. It's like, they're refugeesall over the world. There's no
sense of who you're related towho you're not related to. And
it, it really strips you of youridentity. And when it happens
over generations, I think thatyou're then left without an
identity, and you try to form itagain. I'm trying to do that
(16:25):
with my own kids like to havethem not lose that. But I don't
know how successful I can be.
Because where do you go tovisit? Who do you go to see?
Whose grandparents grave do yougo see when there is not? You
know. But it's also hard to feelAmerican per se. But then I go
there. And guess what, I'mfucking American. I'm serious.
(16:47):
Like, culturally, culturally.
DB Crema (16:58):
Is there ever... I don't know if I have a question.
Do you ever have a space whereyou feel like you fit in? Or are
you feel accepted?
Akeem (17:10):
Well, there's a few things that I wanted to sort of
mention. Most of them have to dowith like being a doctor.
Because there's been multipletimes where I've had patients be
like, I don't want you to be mydoctor just based off of my
name, or what I look like. I'vehad patients with like blatant,
(17:31):
you know, white supremacisttattoos all over them, come into
the emergency room and take careof them. And I think the hardest
part is I've had like otherdoctors who said, like, off the
wall, like really racist shit.
I've had other doctors whorefuse to shake my hand. But
I've always been proud of,especially with patients of
(17:52):
being like, I'm here to treateveryone. Like I remember, one
guy coming in. And, you know, Ihad to cut right through his
swastika in order to do asurgery, you know, and I was
like, I'm not going to thinkabout this person as being any
different. And I've always takensome pride in thinking that it
doesn't matter how other peopletreat you, you got to treat
(18:16):
everyone the same. And I want tobe known as a doctor who it
doesn't matter because there'splenty of people out there who
probably do not like me based onwhat I am. But I don't want that
to interfere how I interact withthem as taking care of them and,
and try to see the humanity andeveryone. And that's been
helpful in trying to deal withrace as I get older is to say,
(18:39):
people get to be in desperatepositions. And I think my role
in this world is to help peopleand to try to do that, to the
best of my ability no matter howthey would treat me if the roles
were reversed and being okaywith that, and actually being
proud of that.
DB Crema (19:02):
Thanks for listening to United States of Race. This
podcast was written and producedby me, DB Crema. Thank you to
Aly Creative for designing ourartwork. And to Nick D and Nick
S, for technical support. If youlove great storytelling, please
subscribe to United States ofRace on Spotify, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get yourpodcasts. You can also show us
(19:25):
some love by rating and writingreview on Apple podcasts or
PodChaser. And go ahead andshare this podcast with your
friends and anyone who believesin the power of building
connection through sharingpersonal stories. You can also
follow us on Instagram atunitedstatesofrace. And as
(19:46):
always, if you Yes, you have acompelling story to share, and
would like to be featured in anupcoming episode. Send us a
message atunitedstatesofrace@gmail.com
Until next time
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