Episode Transcript
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(02:55):
Yeah, so there's your when, who, and what, but who really cares, right?
You gotta dig deeper, and that's where the real history begins, starting with questions like why? Was it right? What would I have done under those circumstances? How does it affect me today? How does it affect my children? How does it affect generations, you know, seven generations down the line? Now we're getting into the real questions of history.
So we move from the what, what happened, to so what, like who cares, why is this important to now what, okay? What should I do with this information?
The interpretation of all of the information we get.
Right.
So we move from the study of chronology to what I think is really the study of character. Because if there's one thing that history teaches us, right, there's the cliche, if there's one thing that history teaches us, is that we're all going to face a crisis. Every person, every country, every generation will face a crisis. And if we choose to look what it took for our ancestors to overcome their challenges, then it's going to be easy for us to prepare for our challenges. So we gain insight by using hindsight, right?
So let me give you my definition of history.
History is the study of what happens when character meets conflict.
For better or for worse, because there's a good character and bad character. History is the study of what happens when character meets conflict. And we never know what that conflict's going to look like.
We even, we're seeing it today.
Did you see a pandemic coming?
I didn't see that one coming.
Nope. But now it's in the record books.
(04:32):
And you know, so interestingly, you know, my take on history in accordance with kind
of your version there in that the crisis has really becomes the story, right?
So history is break the word apart, his story.
It's really just a story about what happens to people at a certain place in, at a certain
(04:53):
time and certain things that are involved in that story.
And the story matters because then it establishes a record of an occurrence.
And that occurrence then hopefully factual, which that would lead us into a whole nother
slew of questions about fact and truth and perspective, right?
But we know that story also contains a bias.
(05:15):
And so it's the perspective of the storyteller that gives us history and allows us to interpret.
And then that leads to other questions.
And so that's really where the study of history to your point is about character.
What is a character doing and how would I have behaved if it were me in that story?
Right.
(05:35):
Right.
And I like what you said about, you know, perspective because I think a good historian
is aware that we're looking through a lens and that's not a bad thing.
So let me, let me give you a little story from Wayne County history.
Okay.
Let's go back to March of 1789.
Okay.
Summer and what will later become Palmyra over by Gennarga Creek, Mud Creek.
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That night, there's a group of Tuscarora natives and as they look, they see a cabin
built by these pioneers and they look through the chinks of the cabin walls and they see
the light and they figure, Hey, here's a great idea.
Let's take our muskets and shove them through the chinks of the wall and let's just fire
some potshots.
Great idea.
Well, and they do, they do that and they end up killing one settler and severely wounding
(06:19):
another one.
Okay.
So the partners, they run out of the cabin, they chase them down, they track them down,
they farm and they decide, pioneer justice that we should probably kill them on the spot.
So they tomahawk one of them to death and they stone another one to death.
Quite a story.
From one perspective and now put on your spectacles because we need to speculate, right?
So let's, let's take a closer look.
(06:41):
We could zoom in like a microscope.
There's a lens, right?
We could zoom in on a specific detail.
Here's my question.
Where did Tuscarora natives get muskets from in the first place?
I was thinking the same thing.
Right.
Were these guys, were these settlers drunk and they should have been on guard duty or
were they doing everything right?
You know, just zooming in on that one little detail.
(07:02):
We could do that.
Or we could, let's take another lens.
Let's use, let's use a panoramic lens and, and you know, pan out to see the big picture.
Was there a treaty in place with the Tuscarora?
If so, were these pioneers breaking it?
Right.
Right.
And so then that leads to whose perspective are we looking at when we, in the 21st century,
(07:24):
interpret that set of occurrence.
And that in and of itself, that kind of makes history because it can be from a different
perspective and we can gain insight by looking at multiple perspectives from a distance,
the distance of time.
I think.
Yes.
Yes.
And that's really, a lot of kids, you know, we talked about kids kind of interpreting
(07:45):
history as history class, get caught up with the timeframe.
And the chronology.
Right.
And it's so long ago, but I think the exciting thing about history is that we can zoom in
and zoom out and we can bring it forward into today and compare it to how we would react
(08:06):
in today's world to how the story unfolded in yesteryear, whatever that timeframe is.
And so putting all that into perspective.
Before we go to a sponsor break, I'd just say I found a little definition from a historian
named Kate Carpenter.
She does a podcast oddly enough called Drafting History, which is about writing historical
(08:26):
accounts.
And she commented on how she approaches writing history, which is how a lot of us gather that
knowledge from the past.
It's from reading what other historians have researched and written down for us to then
digest.
Right.
Right.
So her approach is, quote, many people believe that history is mostly a matter of repeating
(08:47):
settled facts rather than realizing.
Right.
Rather than realizing that all the information we have about the past requires careful interpretation
and that the interpretation can change as more context, meaning today's context of where
you're at, right?
(09:08):
That more context comes to light or as we ask different questions of the archival information
that we have.
And she says, and I think this leads back to what we started with.
She says, I wish more of this process of doing history, quote, unquote, was taught in K through
12th grade.
She said, I think those research and contextualization skills are valuable throughout life.
(09:33):
And I think you being a history teacher and me being now in this position of historian
or sort of quasi historian would kind of agree with that.
Well, and there definitely has been a shift in the educational environment.
You know, it's not the 1970s.
I have visions of me as a first grader putting lipstick on my face and making a paper mache
(09:55):
headdress so I could dance around in an authentic, yeah.
For Thanksgiving.
Of course.
So we have advanced beyond that point.
So there is an agreement that yes, we need to think more about perspectives.
Amen.
All right.
So why don't we take a break?
We're going to listen to some information about historic pursuit.
(10:17):
Okay.
So historic pursuits, think of it like this for an education outreach that specializes
in immersing folks into early American adventure.
It could be a school assembly about the re canal.
It could be a workshop on how mountain man survival skills might relate to your business
practices or it could be you coming to our Palmyra campus for a full day of reliving the
American Revolution.
(10:37):
Here's your musket.
Here's your Flint and steel.
Let's set up a tent and let's go on patrol in the woods.
We provide everything you need to make it an immersive experience.
I want you to taste it.
I want you to smell it.
I want you to feel the history.
So if you want to check us out historic pursuits.org.
Historic pursuits, putting learning into action and action into learning.
(10:57):
Awesome.
There it is.
Awesome.
Well, thank you.
Historic pursuits out of Palmyra, New York.
Our first sponsor and cohost of the unlock Wayne County podcast here in Lyons, New York
at the museum of Wayne County history.
So we're talking about history.
We're talking about why it matters and what our specific focus is, is local history.
(11:20):
Okay.
Wayne County history.
It's kind of the now and then.
So you know, where do we even start when we think about local history?
I can tell you from my perspective, because I work at the museum of Wayne County history
run by the organization called the Wayne County Historical Society.
There are probably a dozen or more historical societies in Wayne County that do exactly
(11:45):
this, what we're talking about.
They research and preserve history and then share it with people and share it in a very
open and fun way.
A lot of them have museums and buildings that can be visited.
And if I could just take a second, I want to run down some of these names of the historical
societies.
Yeah.
And I want to give you a chance to kind of give us that 300 year back view of how did
(12:12):
a local history, why did Wayne County history?
We can go back for it.
We can go way back.
I'm sure we can.
So just to give an overview, there's a Butler Historical Preservation Society.
They've got the Butler Center Church Museum and the Roe Cobblestone Schoolhouse.
Sounds cool.
They've got the Dayton Historical Society, they've got the Brick Church Museum right there
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in downtown Clyde.
They've got the Mill Museum, probably along the canal since it was a mill or along a waterway.
And they've got the Old Block House, which was a reproduction of an early pioneer stronghold.
Yeah.
Kind of right there.
Love the block.
Yeah.
Historic Huron Old Town Hall or Huron Museum.
They're here on Grange Hall and Dayton Mills School.
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There, Palmyra has five locations, Palmyra Print Shop, the Ailing Coverellet Museum,
the Phelps General Store and the Home Museum, all right there in downtown Palmyra.
Yeah, that'll keep you busy.
Yeah.
Lions Heritage Society has the HG Hotchkiss Essential Oil Company and their building,
they were the Peppermint King.
(13:18):
He was the Peppermint King of Wayne County.
Masedin Historical Society's got the Masedin Academy and the Masedin Meeting House, the
Marion Historic Association runs the Marion Museum at Jenny's House on Main Street there.
Okay.
Newark Arcadia Historical Society's got a Marble Town Schoolhouse and a building on
High Street in Newark.
(13:40):
Ontario Historical Society has the Heritage Square Museum.
That's a fun one.
Yeah, they've got some land out there and a bunch of old buildings too.
Yeah.
That's kind of a, they've got a campus if you will.
Yeah.
Red Creek Historical Society, Rose Historical Society with the Bernard Farnsworth Museum,
Sodas Bay Historical Society with Sodas Bay Lighthouse Museum.
(14:00):
It's another fun one.
Beautiful, yeah.
Town of Sodas Historical Society, Walworth Historical Society and the Walworth Museum,
and Williamson Pultneyville Historical Society's got their museum plus Gates Hall, which is
a beautiful old longest running entertainment facility, I believe, in New York State.
If not, maybe the country, but they have a claim to fame that it's been the longest running
(14:24):
entertainment facility, a concert hall, if you will.
They had a guy come in there and do a one man version of a Christmas Carol.
Yeah, Christmas Carol.
Yeah, yeah.
And the last but not least is the Wolcott Historical Society and they've got the Northrop
Carriage House right there in Wolcott.
That's a sampling of the organized groups and of course the Wayne County Historical Society
with our museum here in Lyons that are doing just what we've been talking about and that
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is preserving history.
Our focus is on Wayne County history, all of those towns kind of zoom in on their town
history, but where did this Wayne County history even begin?
Do you have a concept of that?
Just a concept.
Were you there when it began?
Not quite.
Well, traditionally when you speak about history, you're talking about the time period after
(15:11):
the use of written records, right?
So everything before that point, which is about, I don't know, 5,000 years ago, you
could refer to as prehistory.
Now this is important for a couple of different reasons.
Number one, think about this.
This means that over 90% of the time that humans have been on the planet is before history,
right?
It's prehistory.
Before recorded history.
(15:31):
No human voice.
No, we don't know what Victory Song was being sung by the Neanderthals after a successful
mammoth on it.
We don't have that.
We don't know what the tribal reaction was when the first wolves snuggled up to the campfire
and someone had their bright ideas and said, hey, we could domesticate those.
We don't know what was said.
But that's not to say we don't know anything, right?
Because we can rely on other fields.
(15:53):
We can rely on archeology, geology, geography.
So yeah, we can figure out quite a bit of this.
But the second point is this.
By placing such a high emphasis on written records as an interpretive tool, we're relegating
non-literate cultures to a secondary role.
So think about this.
In a literate society, the written record is everything.
(16:14):
From a point of view of religion, from a point of view of the law, right?
So much of what we know or think we know comes from the fact that somebody wrote it down.
Like I was saying earlier, my quote from the historian.
So Deb, how do we know that Wayne County broke off from Ontario and Seneca County on the 11th
of April, 1820?
Because we can research the document.
(16:35):
Somebody wrote it down, right?
That's right.
Okay, now you've got a spearhead here that is purportedly from like AD 1000 that the
Norsemen left when they landed on the coast of North America.
How do we know?
Nobody wrote that down.
Right.
So how do you know that?
They didn't leave a tag on it.
Right.
Right.
So I would say carbon dating on an artifact.
(16:59):
Isn't that the scientific method?
You could probably, yeah, you could talk about that.
If you look at prehistory cultures, maybe that don't depend on literacy, they usually
balance things out between three sources as opposed to just what's written.
There is a written record, but there's also an archaeological record.
(17:20):
Like you said, carbon dating.
There's artifacts made by humans which tell part of the story.
And there's also an oral tradition.
The stories that have been handed down with integrity from generation to generation by
professional historians, really, maybe you want to call them that.
And societies in West Africa, they're called griots and storytellers, whatever you want
(17:42):
to call them.
But essentially, they're professional historians.
It's their job to accurately hand down the story from generation to generation.
So there's three different ways we can kind of prove history.
So we have to be careful when we ask a question like, when did Wayne County history begin?
Right.
Right.
Because we can go back.
Right.
We can't really put a pin on the timeline, so to speak.
(18:04):
And that kind of brings us forward a little bit too, not being able to pinpoint exactly
when history started.
So there's kind of this cloud of activity, human activity and geological activity and
all these things that I use the old phrase, you know, if a tree falls in the woods and
nobody's there to hear it, does it make a noise?
(18:27):
And we have evidence maybe.
We go back later, ah, tree laying on ground.
And we assume it was standing up at some point.
So we can use that evidence to see what's happened.
So we use that in local history too, to try to piece together like a puzzle of when things
happened, who was involved, and using all of those resources that you just mentioned,
(18:49):
the artifacts, the oral history, the stories of people who are still here today that can
tell the story, and the written record.
All right.
Interesting stuff.
So, Wayne County history, when did it start, how do we surmise what really happened here,
and why is it important?
Before we get to the last segment, which is how did we get here, and what are all the
(19:12):
things that are happening around here, we're going to take another quick break and listen
to a word from our sponsor.
The Museum of Wayne County History in Lyons, New York is located in the former Wayne County
Sheriff's Office and the former Wayne County Jail, where 24 cell blocks are still intact,
with wall-mounted cots, heavy iron-barred doors, and even some of the original inmate
(19:35):
artwork and graffiti on the walls.
Plus, there are more exhibits, which include the Sunning Lyons Pottery and Glass Clyde
Gallery, the Commerce Room, the Military Room, the Victorian Era Child's Room, the Weaving
Room, and more.
The separate two-story carriage barn is located behind the jail and contains exhibits of old
firefighting apparatus and relics and replicas from the original Erie Canal.
(19:56):
The museum is located at 21 Butternut Street, just a short walk from the Erie Canal, locked
27, or directly west of Church Street from the town square.
Guided tours are available, and for more information, please visit WayneHistory.org.
Chris Blomgren from Historic Pursuits, here with me, Deb Hall, at the Wayne County Museum
(20:18):
of History and Lyons, New York, we're talking a new podcast, Unlock Wayne County.
Which is kind of ironic, because I can kind of see the Wayne County jail cells from where
we're sitting.
Hey, a little play on words, not only jail cells, but we've also got canal locks right
around the corner.
(20:38):
So unlocking the hidden gems of local history and happenings through the people, organizations,
and businesses that operate and live here in Wayne County, New York.
And we want to encourage everyday exploration and discovery of some of these hidden gems
through this conversation that we hope to continue with other interesting folks, interesting
businesses and talking about events and things that are happening around the county.
(21:02):
We want to continue that here on Unlock Wayne County.
But just to kind of wrap this up, give us some of those factors that you would say build
the interest in local history and kind of bring us up to where we are today.
We talked earlier about a push-pull factor.
(21:22):
Let me phrase it like this.
Why the heck did people come here in the first place?
Why did they come here?
Why Wayne County?
Right?
In history, we talk about push factors and pull factors.
So push factors are the bad things.
Those are the reasons why you would want to leave the old area, right?
Big persecution, famine, active volcanoes, right?
(21:44):
Great reasons to move on.
Right?
We'll see it today.
Again, pushed out.
And then you got pull factors, which are obviously the good things in the new place.
Hey, this has got some great hunting or this is free land, right?
I can worship freely.
So depending on the time period and the people involved, there's been many reasons why you
might want to relocate to Wayne County.
(22:04):
2000 BC, caveman Grog said, hey, mammoths are hunting in this area, which will one day
be called Wayne County.
We should move there, right?
2000 BC, hey, there's some really good fishing in the local rivers and lakes.
We should set up a little hut here, right?
AD 1100, Seneca Indians say, you know what?
If we built our village on top of that hill, it would be a lot easier to defend.
(22:27):
So I kind of like these hilly things around here.
1800s, right?
Why would I say in Ireland and starve when I could dig this canal thing?
And get paid.
And it sounds like a great job.
I'm going to do that.
2000, right?
Man, why would I pay Monroe County taxes when I can walk 100 yards that way and set up
Lowe's and Walmart?
(22:48):
Right, no offense to our Monroe County friends.
No offense, right?
But think about, I mean, Wayne County, it's always had great farming.
There's no real threat of natural disasters, right?
I mean, a little snow.
Ooh, okay.
Right.
It's got low crime, relatively.
It's got family-friendly neighborhoods.
It's got good schools.
It's got outdoor recreation.
And it's got a long history of innovative businesses and unique individuals that would
(23:13):
make great material for a future podcast.
Hey, I think that segues us into the fact that that is exactly what we're going to be
focusing on.
Okay.
Is pulling all that information out and seeking out those interesting businesses, interesting
people, interesting events.
These interesting facts from history that lead us into where we are today and also taking
(23:36):
the events of today and taking a little glimpse into the past of where it came from.
One thing that comes to mind is the Moorra Car Company.
Moorra Car Company began in Newark and the factory building is still standing, but now
it's a Haleagans Furniture Factory.
But the factory is still there.
And it'd be interesting to kind of, you know, you walk inside the walls and think about
(24:00):
the people that lived here prior to, you know.
We're not promoting trespassing.
No, but maybe a site tour.
But it's that kind of cool stuff where we can take, you know, modern day businesses and
conveniences and kind of look at where they came from and how it brought us to where we
are today and kind of celebrate that, really unlock the keys to what it means, where we
(24:24):
came from and what it means to us today and where we're going in the future.
Because all this is part of human survival.
History really is just the story of human survival.
And we have that knack in our DNA to survive.
And so despite what people think about a particular geographic area or what somebody might think
about Wayne County, who maybe hasn't been here, or what people think about it and they
(24:49):
do live here, you know, it's all that perspective.
We're going to pull that out.
And we're going to do that by unlocking Wayne County on Unlock Wayne County.
So we thank you for listening today.
This is our special mini introductory episode, maybe not so many, but it gives listeners
a sample of what is to come.
And really, like you said, Chris, the opportunities are endless.
(25:09):
We could talk about so many things in depth.
I think that folks would find it interesting and it would really unlock some of the hidden
gems of what Wayne County is.
So we hope that you will join us for future podcasts for more information about these
topics and more.
Visit us online at Waynehistory.org slash unlock history.
(25:31):
And if you're interested in being a sponsor, a business sponsor or a community sponsor,
we encourage you to contact us at info at Waynehistory.org.
Thanks Chris for hanging out with me today.
Yeah, sounds good.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Unlock Wayne County.
We explore local history and happening around the county.
(25:51):
Join us next time as we continue this conversation with key people in Wayne County who will help
open the doors of the past and provide great insight into the future.
Special thanks to our guest, Chris Blomgren from Historic Pursuits.
Unlock Wayne County is recorded by Matt Beck and produced by Wayne County Historical Society,
edited and mastered by Beck Photo and Video, with music provided by Permission From, the
(26:13):
Topaz Volunteer Fife and Drum Corps of Macedon, New York.
Unlock Wayne County was brought to you by our sponsors, Historic Pursuits and the Museum
of Wayne County History.
If you know of an interesting person or business in Wayne County that you think would be a great
guest on this podcast, let us know by emailing info at Waynehistory.org.
Until next time, we hope you unlock your appreciation for the variety of history and happenings
(26:36):
in Wayne County, New York.