[EP03] "Rock Bottom Is When You Stop Digging"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alfred (00:03):
Hey everyone, and welcome to the Unmodern Podcast,
the podcast where we haveunscripted, unapologetic, and
uncomfortable conversations thataffects everyday people.
If you've ever had an outlook,thought, or an opinion that
modern day society told you tobe silent on That you would get
in trouble for, or if you'veever heard the words, probably
shouldn't say that, then this isthe podcast for you.

(00:26):
My name is Alfred, a husband,father, and an adventure seeking
kind of guy, who over the yearshas learned to have a positive
outlook on life, regardless ofwhat society throws at me.
So if you're ready to listen,let's go.

(01:02):
Zan, welcome to the unmodernpodcast.
I appreciate you, brother.
Thanks for coming on,

Zan (01:07):
man.
Oh, man.
It's good to see you, man.
I'm stoked to be here.

Alfred (01:10):
It's awesome.
I think you're going to bring aton of value to people.
We're going to try to distill itdown from your very professional
recovery, lived experience anddrill it down to kind of the
more everyday person.
I know we met in some recoverytraining and you brought so much
value to me.
You brought perspective, youbrought expertise and something

(01:31):
that I think applies to mostpeople.
I think the term recovery, theterm addiction, the term rock
bottom is not something that isaccurately portrayed these days.
They try to distill it down toone overarching meaning and you
have a great ability to apply itto individual sets.
So I'm super stoked about thisepisode, man.

Zan (01:49):
Thanks, dude.
I'm happy to be here.
When we met, you brought a lotof value to your conversations
too, right?
So I think the feeling is mutualabout that.
So I appreciate you too.
And in your words,

Alfred (02:00):
let's go.
Yeah, that is definitelysomething that people that know
me started attributing it to me,but I certainly cannot take
credit for it.
That has been around for a longtime.
I think I just embody it to thenth degree.
But yes, I am all about thatpositive.
Let's go mindset.
So I'm gonna do a quickintroduction here for people
that don't know you.
Obviously this is going to bevery high level and then we're

(02:21):
certainly going to expand onthis, you're raised small town,
BC, Sparwood, I believe.
Correct.
That is

Zan (02:27):
correct.
So yeah, the

Alfred (02:28):
world's largest truck,

Zan (02:31):
which people that drive through Sparwood and don't stop,
see from the highway and theneverybody I tell that I'm from
there says, Oh yeah, the biggreen truck.

Alfred (02:39):
I guess it was the largest at one point, but I
don't think it's the largest

Zan (02:41):
anymore.
I don't even think it was at thetime.
This is a myth.

Alfred (02:46):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Obviously I drive to there toget to one of my favorite spots
in the mountains for any, butyeah, no good old Spirewood.
So yeah, born and raised inSpirewood.
Yeah.
And you kind of ended upmigrating over the pond to
London, England for a bit, andthen back to Vancouver.
So you've been all over theplace, man.
And I absolutely love that.

Zan (03:03):
Pit stops in Vancouver before London, England.
But yeah, until I was 18 yearsold, was in that small town.
And it was a very goodexperience until it was time to
go.

Alfred (03:13):
We'll definitely unpack that a little bit.
Here I got twice divorced.
Alcohol abuse, drug abuse tryingto figure out fake until you
make it being a dad.
I think that's kind of the bookthat we all read that doesn't
exist.
Finding recovery beginning theinner work and why you are the
way you are.
We've touched on that quite abit and I can't wait to unpack
that for the listeners.
Becoming an athlete getting intofitness and then leaving a very

(03:36):
promising, very well recognizedcareer.
To do your passion, which italigns a little bit with your
career, but doing it full borethat takes a lot of gumption
that takes a lot of courage todo that.
And I got to commend you forthat, dude.
So that's a quick high level.
I don't know if you want tounpack that a little bit about
your experience in Spirewood,then your travels across the
pond and just kind of where yougot your start, man.

(03:57):
You feel free to start at anyage, man.
You do you.

Zan (04:00):
Yeah, sure.
I noticed there when you said,twice divorced.
Alcohol abuse, recovering drugaddict, I was like, oh my god.
It took me, I had to step backfor a second and be like, oh
yeah, I guess that's all truetoo.
Like anybody else, it's been ajourney, right?
Of extreme highs and extremelows, but Yeah, basically you
know, as we said, Sparta, BC,it's a tiny little town in the

(04:20):
Kootenays.
I did grow up there almost allof my years, till I was 18 I
always say it was great.
It was the idyllic small townlife.
This was obviouslypre-cellphone, pre-social media,
pre-internet pre CD players.
It was that classic small townlife of, riding bikes
everywhere, and swimming inswimming holes in the river, and

(04:41):
walking the train tracks, anddoing all kinds of stupid shit
they do in small towns, but itwas I would say I wouldn't trade
that for anything, because itreally kind of defined almost in
a way who I am now with smalltown values and stuff, and I've
got a Amazing friends that I'veknown since I was four or five
years old that are still my goodfriends that, like, you can't
put a price on that shit, man.
To have that, I feel so blessedto have those friends that I

(05:02):
made then.
We've got a million memories.
I just talked to My stepbrother,I consider him a real brother
because we've been together solong, but I just talked to him
last night and we were justlaughing at some of the stupid
shit we used to do.
We're just like, the kids todayjust don't do this dumb shit,
man, and it's almost a shame,so, yeah, very much a small
town, small town life, which wasgreat.
Migrate as soon as we could, meand my buddy moved to Vancouver

(05:25):
on a whim almost.
We were just like, let's get outof here.
Everybody we knew was going toCalgary or Lethbridge or
Cranbrook.
Those are like the closestmetropolitan areas, I guess.
If you can call Cranbrook andLethbridge metropolitan, that's
where everyone was going.
And me and my buddy were like,fuck it.
Let's go to Vancouver.
And I had only been here likeonce before and he had never
been.
We were like, let's go to theocean.
That was our whole thing.

(05:45):
We're like, let's go to theocean.
To make a very long story short,we came out here spent a few
years here.
When I was 23, my high schoolsweetheart moved out here with
me, and we were together for afew years, up and down, of
course.
I was actually just talking toyesterday, a friend of mine.
He's a young kid, he's like 23years old, and he's having a
hard time, and I was like, youknow what, man, when I was 23, I
had a really fucking hard time.

(06:06):
Like, it's almost like thisquarter life crisis kind of
thing, you're not a teenageranymore, but you're not really
ready for adultresponsibilities, and you still
want to party all night, andsleep all day, but you gotta,
look to pay rent, or start doingwhatever you do to be an adult,
right, so.
I was around 23 years old and Iwas with my ex girlfriend we
lived downtown and we wentthrough a tragedy together.

(06:27):
I don't think I've ever sharedthis on a podcast, but we had a
very good friend of ours diedtragically.
When we were there, she actuallyfell off a balcony.
I was standing right beside herbroke every bone in her body and
didn't make it.
So, that's a hard thing to gothrough at a young age.
So it kind of changed a lot ofthings for me at the time.
My girlfriend and I have beenstruggling.
My sister lived in London,England, and she kept saying,

(06:48):
like, you got to come out andvisit.
You would love it, and I used tosay, like, fuck, I live in the
most beautiful city in theworld.
Why would I want to go to grey,old, dreary London, England, and
have tea at four o'clock?
And, like, I'd totally pinchher.
She's like, no, it's crazy.
You'll love it.
Party all the time and stuff.
So after my friend Wendy died mygirlfriend and I just, we just

(07:08):
broke up and I just thought, youknow, life's too fucking short
to not take chances and do shit.
So, I pretty much hopped on aplane and went to visit my
sister for a month, stayedthere, had the craziest time.
It was everything she said.
And I came back to Vancouver, Isaid, fuck it, I'm moving to
London.
So that's kind of how thathappened.
And yeah, that was that wouldhave been year 2000, actually.

(07:29):
Yeah, right after 99.
So that's how I started the newmillennium, I guess, was in
London, England.

Alfred (07:33):
How long were you in London for?

Zan (07:35):
that's another very long story that I'll make short.
I was supposed to be there.
You can get a two year workingvisa if you're under the age of
26.
I don't know if you should stilldo it, but if any people under
the age of 26, listen to this.
Fucking do it, man.
You can, the government, you canget a working visa.
So you can go over there andlive and travel for two years.
To a few countries, Australia,New Zealand.
The UK, etc.

(07:57):
So it's only supposed to be twoyears, but London was probably
the most insane times of mylife.
I can't even describe to you,like, when I tell stories from
there, like, people can'tbelieve it.
My life was so out of control,partying.
I always wanted to be a rockstar when I was a teenager.
Well, I lived a rock star lifewhen I was in So it's supposed
to be there two years.
I ended up meeting a girl, mytwo years ran up, so it was,

(08:19):
hey, we're either going to breakup, or we're going to come back
to Canada with me on a visitorvisa.
So we did, she came back here,her visitor visa ran out, then
it was like, okay, we looked ateach other, it's like, this is
the end of us, or we getmarried.
So for better or for worsethat's what I did.
We got married, and it was soeasy for me to move to England

(08:39):
and work again.
Even though I didn't have aworking visa anymore, the
government bureaucracy was soeasy to get through for me to
get there, but for her to workin Canada was like a nightmare,
a two year process, all thisbullshit.
So we just looked at each other,we're like, let's go back to
England.
What was supposed to be twoyears, ended up being five
years.
My kid was born there.
He was born in Camden, whichthose of you that are familiar

(09:00):
with London, Camden's like the,well, how would you describe it?
Like the counterculture wildhippie punk goth.
A little mixture of everythingin, in Camden Town, it's quite
famous.
So my kid was born there andthen we came back.
I didn't want to live thereanymore.
I was like, fuck, I want to getback to Canada.
I wanted to raise him in Canada.
So we packed up and came back2005.
That's a very, very shortversion of an extremely long

(09:23):
story, but I think I got the keypoints.

Alfred (09:25):
Yeah, no, that's good, man.
That's good.
obviously it sounds like youwere partying at a young age,
didn't really stop, party keptgoing for a while.
Is there a moment where you canthink of whether it was London
or whether it was Vancouverwhere it started trending
downward on the way to your rockbottom?
Is there a moment in time or anevent?
Can you think of it was justkind of spiraling.
That's a

Zan (09:45):
great question because it was pretty much a spiral for
many, many years.
Partying was my identity and Italk about this a lot in the
coaching world and stuff likeidentity.
What is that?
And, being the party guy was myidentity.
I was always the loudest guy Iwould always do.
Anything as far as drugs, I wasalways the last guy up.

(10:06):
And there were many, many times,like, when I say, I often use
the word that I'm, I'm blessed,and I give gratitude, because
there's many times I should havedied, like, many times.
I've got the word indestructibletattooed across my chest,
because it was like, fuck,there's been so many times it
should have been over for me,whether it was drugs, or just
reckless driving, or fuck, amillion different things.
there was times in London whenit was out of control, it was

(10:27):
always drinking, and I alwayssay that I always did drugs to
allow me to keep drinking, so Iloved cocaine because it allowed
me to stay up and not sleep wellinto the next day and well into
the next day, and it was thesame with Speed, anything.
I did anything I could get myhands on.
Always high functioning.
I always had a job but inLondon, my job was at a music
store a very famous music store.

(10:49):
It's not there anymore, but likeall the rock stars used to shop
there and stuff, but of courseit was, all the staff there was
young travelers like me.
Everyone was there to party andit was oftentimes it was the
first time they're away fromhome and it was like, that's
what we did.
I say that sometimes like weused to.
It wasn't unusual at all.
In fact, it was more common forme to leave work on a Friday go
back into work on a Monday inthe exact same clothes.

(11:10):
Hadn't showered, hadn't slept,hadn't eaten and turn up on
Monday in the exact same clothesthat I went out in.
I hadn't been home because inLondon, there's a million punk
clubs.
I was very into punk rock, stillam but there's also, club clubs,
what would be called EDM thesedays, and of course, that's the
ecstasy scene, so I fuckingloved ecstasy, and so we would
go Friday night, we'd go to thepub after work, we'd go to maybe

(11:33):
a punk gig or a club, that clubwould end, and in London,
there's clubs that open at 6am,so one club's ending, and You
just get on the tube, go toanother club that's just
opening.
And they'll do 12 hours in thatclub in like a warehouse or
something.
Next thing you know, it's,Sunday night.
You haven't slept yet.
It was out of control.
And there were many times I wasquestioning like, fuck, I can't
be doing this.
I can't keep doing this.

(11:53):
It was other things too.
I was extremely promiscuous.
And I don't have an issue sayingthat.
It was, very, very wild timeswhen you're traveling, I guess.
But so there was unsafe thingsgoing on there.
It was just a very recklesslifestyle.
That's how I would describe it.
Reckless.
I never cared.
We'd be in a club and someone, astranger would be like, here
man, have some of these pills.
And I'm just popping them.

(12:13):
Like, I wouldn't even know whatthey were.
And I'm talking like, people areshocked when I say this, but I'm
talking like, it wasn't uncommonto do like 10, 12.
Ecstasy is in a night at a club,like again, blessed, people
don't make it off far less thanthat but it was the lifestyle.
It was my identity.
Again, there's the wordidentity.
So to jump back to your questionYes, things, we can, we'll zip

(12:35):
ahead very fast.
The girl that I married there,we didn't make it had a very
messy divorce with her, I willsay too that my life was just
chaos.
It was chaos with women, it waschaos with drama with my friends
always chaos, always some sortof drama going on.
So her and I split up, we're inCanada now she didn't want to be
here in Canada anymore, but ourson was here.

(12:56):
I remarried very shortly afterto another party girl and this
is my attraction too, so we'reprobably going to talk about
this later too, is...
I was attracted to chaos.
So I chose chaotic women and Ichose women that wanted to stay
up all night partying with me.
I chose women that wanted toenable me and let me get away
with.
Things such as, infidelity, orjust insane drug use, this sort

(13:18):
of thing, right?
So I married another girl, andI'm not saying anything bad
about these women.
I married them for a reason.
I loved them at one time.
But I did marry another partygirl, and our lives were, again,
Pure chaos.
We drank heavily.
We did cocaine quite a bit.
This was just our life.
So your original question was,when did you see it going off
the rails?
Our life got so out of controlthat she up and left one day,

(13:40):
unexpectedly.
And it was like I got hit by atruck.
I didn't expect it.
I don't know if I had ever hadmy heart broken before like
that.
And it just hit me so hard.
It fucked me up, like, for avery long time, and I dealt with
it the only way that I knew how,which was binge drinking, which
was hopping on Tinder, sleepingaround constantly just chasing

(14:01):
either a replacement orsomething.
I don't know what I was chasingthere was always a hole in me
somehow that I was always tryingto fill, whether it was through
women or drugs or alcohol, therewas always something, or drama,
so...
It was eight months of absolutechaos, and I'm talking I was a
mess.
I was taking so manyprescription drugs Ativan's,
Klonopin, Zopiclone.

(14:21):
That was the only way that Icould manage my hangovers.
I will say, at this point, I was38 years old, and my hangovers
got so unbearable.
Like, I use the term souldestroying, because They were
crushing.
Days.
It would take days.
So I'd binge drink and goblackout.
I started blacking out all thetime.
I have no idea how I got home orwhat I did.
And then I would be like fourdays of like, anxiety, shakes,

(14:43):
alcohol withdrawal.
Just absolute misery.
All the while with an absolutelybroken heart.
And I tried so hard to get thisgirl back.
She wasn't budging because shebasically took one look at our
lives and said, I can't do thisanymore.
I can't be with this guy.
He brings too much chaos to me.
So that was when that was whenthe signs were really there of
like, holy shit, you're gonnadie.
I couldn't sleep for days at atime.

(15:04):
I was insomnia.
I'd be like up writing thesecrazed emails to her, like pages
and pages of emails, begging herto come back and stuff.
I was a broken man.
That's how I would describe it.
I was shattered.
It was a broken man.
And I lost all of the strength.
I lost all of what made me, me.
And it was heartbreaking.
That was when everything changedin those eight months.
And I truly believe that if Ihadn't have had the clarity of

(15:25):
mind to change what I did, Idefinitely wouldn't be here
having this conversation withyou.
It was heading that direction.
And it may have even been, like,I'll be honest with you here,
where I feel very comfortablebeing very honest with you, it
might have even been at my ownhand.
I was not wanting to be aliveanymore at times if it wasn't
for my kid.
There was definitely momentswhere I was at such a low point
that I couldn't see a way outand but I had a kid to take care

(15:47):
of.
that's what pretty much kept megoing until I found recovery and
everything changed for meDecember 1st, 2014.
But again, it's a short versionof a very long story, but I
think that sums it up prettygood.

Alfred (16:02):
I love how you recited the date the day and the year,
because I really feel likethat's for a lot of people, both
good and bad situations in theirlives.
They associate that.
That's what they cling on to.
You talked about identity and Iknow it's the same thing for me,
I consciously made the choice toget off alcohol on January 2nd,
2023.
Not because I hit rock bottom,not because I was going down a

(16:24):
path because I was going down aroad of, I wouldn't call it
recovery.
I would call it building myselfup, starting to look at things
as net positive versus netnegative.
That was rooted a lot indecisions made during the
pandemic and even before thepandemic, trying to build new
relationships and new friendsand finding out very quickly.
there's only so much mentoring Ican do, and there's only so much

(16:47):
lived experience I can put onpeople.
If people are not open mindedand receptive to it, they're
almost like a ball and chain onyour ankle.
They just drag you down.
And, and that's not a knock tocertain people that haven't
discovered their way out of itor haven't, found their niche or
whatever it may be is just atthat point in time, I was not
ready for it.
I was not ready to be consideredthe person, you know, the bigger
person in any relationship causeI had a marriage and a daughter

(17:10):
to take care of, but I love thatbecause when you associate the
date to it, that's exactly how Ido it.
My upbringing to give you alittle bit cause I don't know if
you know this.
I think I mentioned it a littlebit.
I went to 14 different schoolsas a kid.
Between elementary, junior high,high school.
I went to 14 school.
So it's funny hearing you talkabout childhood friends.
I don't have any of those.
There's nobody now that I talkto.

(17:30):
I think my oldest friend that Istill talk to irregularly, but
we're very quick to pick it up.
And it's as if we didn't spendany time away from each other.
It was 2010.
So 13 years ago, and I'm 34Facebook and social media have
allowed me to bridge that gap,but these are not people that I
know what's going on in theirlives at all.
And so for me dates areimportant, but it's funny
because I went to so manydifferent school addresses.

(17:54):
Yeah, it's funny, we used tolive on 32 Wallace place.
I remember that.
That was a townhouse.
I'm from Alberta.
We used to live at 20 Anitacourt.
That was in Truro Heights, NovaScotia so that's how I remember
my childhood is, is physicaladdresses.
Cause we never stayed more thana year in any place.
Right.
And we weren't a militaryfamily.
That's a lot of schools dude.
Yeah, it's a lot, right?

(18:15):
So I don't have any of thosecore childhood memories, I have
core memories of activities andthe people that I did it with,
but not these, we went throughthis with the same posse, the
same crew, the same, I don'thave any of that shit.
So it's a bit hard for me tocultivate lasting relationships,
and I think my past has a lot todo with that.

Zan (18:31):
Yeah, I've heard that about people that moved around a lot
difficulty.
Forging those solidrelationships, because maybe in
your back of your mind, you'relike, this isn't going to last.
So why invest in it?
I don't know, but that's whatI've heard other people say.

Alfred (18:42):
Yeah.
I mean, to a degree, I'm asocially awkward person.
Just the way it is.
I would never know that, man.
I'm a positive person, but thatpositivity was cultivated over a
lot of years of taking it on thechin, being the outcast, being
the new kid at school, right?
You almost have to impress andrather than using drugs and
alcohol to do it I used purecourage.
Right.
It's Alfred, you should do this.

(19:03):
Let's do it.
Let's go.
That's just where that camefrom.
Right.
For me.

Zan (19:10):
Like I was saying, this is how we, the things that shape
what we're going to be later onas men, as adults.
Right.
Like it's these types ofexperiences, whether it's the
nervousness going into a newclassroom for the first time or
like, whatever.
Right.
Like you become braver by goingthrough that over and over.

Alfred (19:27):
yeah, I think it builds experience doing it too, though.
Right.
So that's part of the reframe.
And I think that's likely partof your journey and it's
definitely a part of my journeyis reframing what I used to
associate negatives to in apositive, not what I don't have
in terms of childhood friends,childhood memories, childhood
addresses.
I see people, Oh, my familylived in this house for 40 years

(19:49):
and there's our notches on thewall of how tall we were as kids
and stuff.
Whereas me, I'm well traveled.
Yeah.
I can amalgamate into a newgroup of people relatively
quickly.
Now can I make that relationshiplast long term?
That's obviously my struggle,but I have that skill and I had
it at an extremely young age andso that I've never done that

(20:09):
until probably the last threeyears is I've never had a need
to do that, but not only that,I've never had the desire to.
And now that.
I want to build new lastingrelationships with this podcast,
with meeting, like-minded, butalso different minded people
with similar lived lifeexperience.
Mm-hmm.
I have to leverage that, and byreframing it, it allows me to do
it much, much easier.

Zan (20:29):
Well, hell yeah, man.
Re reframing.
I use that in coaching all thetime.
It's one of the secrets of beinga good coach like you said, to
give them a new perspective onit.
Right?
Like, that's what I do a lot.
I just want to jump back quicklythere and congratulations on,
you must be into your 10th monthnow then with an alcohol and
that's amazing, man.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
And that just goes to showeverybody's experience is unique

(20:50):
but whatever leads you to notdrink, which leads to bettering
yourself, is worth it.
Like I know you put on yourInstagram that quote that I
think I've told you before thatI always say is you don't gotta
hit rock bottom.
Rock bottom is when you stopfucking digging the hole, right?
And some people stop drinking.
For almost competitiveadvantage, maybe they're not
advancing in their career, maybethey're not being the best

(21:12):
husband, or their marriage is onthe rocks, but they haven't hit
rock bottom, maybe they don'teven drink that much, but they
determined that, hey, here'ssomething that's holding me back
in life, and here's what I'mgoing to do about it, and I'm
going to move forward withoutit, or at least attempt to move
forward without it, right?
It's 10 percent better.
And whatever it is, it could begambling, it could be social

(21:36):
media, it could be TV, it couldbe pornography, like whatever it
is holding you back is aroadblock.
If you can identify it and thenstart taking the steps to
overcome it.
Right.
So I think I'm hearing from you.
I think that's what you kind of

Alfred (21:49):
did.
Yeah, absolutely.
I looked at something thatwasn't a net positive in my
life.
I've shared this with you, but.
The root cause of this is mydistaste for alcohol because
I've actually never been a bingedrinker.
I've never been a big consumerof alcohol is I had a really bad
alcoholic father his whole life.
He's actually in the hospitalright now and end stage liver
failure and yeah, no, for sure.

(22:12):
And I appreciate that.
And it's one of those thingswhere I wanted to disassociate
with that as much as I could.
And about 18 months ago, when Iwas discovering coal plunging
and I had a friend of mine gothrough a health journey and
really come out and open my eyesto just being open minded and
not judging a book by its cover,because I was super fucking
prone to doing that.
I'd look at somebody on thestreet.

(22:32):
With a hood on a needle in theirarm and I think what a fucking
junkie what a loser notrealizing that not realizing
that guy at some maybe as afamily, maybe, a woman left him
things that are outside of hiscontrol and he wasn't able to
cope with it and handle it.
I was that immature piece ofshit dude no joke like that's
how I was.
And I was.

(22:53):
Yeah, yeah, and I thinkeverybody is to a degree right
because I think we're taughtthat we're taught to judge a
book by its cover right we'retaught that you have to be able
to take information or visualindications.
Be able to quickly process themand come to a conclusion.
Yeah, good point.
That's how we're taught to do alot of things.
Everything's about efficiency.
Everything is about, does itcatch our eye?
When we're scrolling throughsocial media, it's the first

(23:13):
five seconds, they call it thathook, right?
What's the, what's the phrase?
What's the picture?
What's the image?
What's the music?
How can I bring you in reallyquickly?
And we have to be able to make adecision very quickly.
Yeah, good point.

Zan (23:25):
With the judgment, right?
Like, we're also ignorant.
We gain perspective andknowledge as we get older, of
course.
I used to be too.
I'd be like, oh, I should justget a job.
I've worked on the downtown eastside of Vancouver right now,
which is ground zero in Canada,pretty much.
And To say just go get a job,it's so much more complex than
that.
I say everybody down there isjust a beautiful lost soul, man,

(23:46):
that something went wrong alongthe way, a trauma that, I
certainly can't understand orsomething went wrong.
Like you said, a wife left, onebad decision here, whatever it
is.
Right.
But I, right.
Over my years partying, I hadsome dalliances with some very,
very hard and addictive drugs,and I know how fast it happens,

(24:08):
and I'll say it again, I wasblessed to get out of those
situations, because it was very,very likely I would be down
there right now, or not on thisearth these drugs are extremely
addictive.
And most of the time, there's nogetting out of it once you're
in, so yeah, so my point was,yeah, we look at it with
ignorance until we have livedexperience, until we maybe know

(24:29):
somebody that went through it,or start to understand
addiction, because, like I wassaying, addiction could be
fucking pornography, it could begambling, people lose their
houses, they lose everything togambling anything, could be
food, man, anything.
What we're addicted to addictionis so powerful.
And so I've got a lot more graceto those that are suffering now
than I did when I was young anddumb, that's for sure.

Alfred (24:50):
I love how you touched on all of those things, because
I think.
Most people listening andincluding myself not too long
ago, if you would have said theterm addiction, the first thing
I think of is a junkie in thestreet.
The last thing I think of is amom in a stable home online
shopping on Amazon with a creditcard hidden from her husband.
If you look in the dictionary,those two people have the same

(25:10):
problem, and it's called anaddiction.
If you can't control it, Andit's impulsive and it's
destructive.
I don't know what the officialdefinition of addiction is.
I'm sure you can definitelytouch on that, but those are the
same things, porn, same thing,if a man or woman can't control
their sexual impulses, whetherthrough porn or through vice or
through promiscuity, that's anaddiction that like legitimate,

(25:32):
that's an addiction.
And when we stopped demonizingthis word and using it the way
fucking MSNBC and all thesepeople use it with visual
imagery.
And you realize that addictionisn't a death sentence.
Addiction isn't a, oh well nowyou're labeled for the rest of
your life.
No, that's not the case at all.
And your lived experience needsto be leveraged for people

(25:53):
because I don't think it getsmuch closer to the end game than
that.
And you touched on it where youskated on thin ice for a long
time and there's some peoplethat might even be halfway down
the road you did and they'relike This is getting scary, this
is getting scary.
Awareness is the first part ofit.
Once you get, like you said, youget, I think the word you used
is clarity.
And not everybody has theblessing to get that while
they're in the middle of theshit storm.

(26:15):
But, I think being able toexpand on that a little bit from
your expertise is from anaddiction standpoint is using
the term addiction to describesomething that you do or
something that you cannotcontrol is not a...
Admission of guilt, or it's notan admission of, well, now I'm
labeled.
It's, you've become aware of itand now you can turn the corner.
And like you said, that ringingphrase, you've stopped digging.

(26:38):
It's time to get out of thehole.

Zan (26:41):
Yeah, dude.
Well, the definition I use foraddiction is compulsive behavior
that has a short term.
benefit that you continue on todo in the face of long term
consequences, right?
That's basically how I woulddefine it.
But yeah, it could be anything.
And it ruins lives, ruinsfamilies, right?
I've worked with a lot of guysat various stages of it.
And it'll get you.

(27:01):
But I do believe truly that Isay this all the time on social
media and everything is,recovery is 100 percent possible
for anybody.
It is.
It's never too late.
You're never too far down.
Like, there is always hope.
You meet the right people.
You find hope when you'rehopeless.
It's, it's real easy to stay inan addiction because life is

(27:22):
bleak, right?
And, but you maybe meetsomebody, maybe something.
It happens by chance that givesyou a little bit of hope,
whatever it is.
But if you're looking for it,you will find it.
And I believe that, throughtreatment, through mentorship,
through whatever it is, whateveravenue someone chooses, recovery
is possible.
The example I always use whentalking about this is Stevo from

(27:43):
Jackass.
I think I always say as ifStevo, he just had like, I
think, 15 years of recovery.
And I always say, man, if Stevocan fucking do it, then anybody
can do it, because that guy wasgone, man, mentally, everything,
he was on another planet, anddid not want help, and
eventually found recovery, Ilooked to him as an inspiration,

(28:05):
I looked to a lot ofcelebrities, or rock stars, or
athletes, that's where I get alot of my inspiration from, but
with him, it's like, fuck, ifthis guy can do it, anyone can
do it, man.
And I believe that.
It's my goal to help people seethat.
You're never too far gone.
I know that blackness.
I know that bleak feeling ofdepression and feeling there's
no way out of like, this is it.

(28:26):
This is who I am.
I'm a fucking alcoholic drugaddict.
This is me.
But it doesn't have to defineyou.
After you decide to stop is whatdefines you, right?
I

Alfred (28:36):
think I love that.
And to go back to the Stevopoint, I've seen that now he's
mentoring Bam Margera and heactually just celebrated one
month sobriety.
And that really resonates withme because on my previous
podcast, I had a good friend ofmine, Ray, and he's a very
entrepreneurial spirit.
He owns multiple businesses.
He actually was teaching hisdaughter at the age of 12 about
business and stuff like that.

(28:57):
And he talks about howentrepreneurs are so giving and
they're so willing to share.
And I think that goes to anybodywho's gone through something
difficult, I'm going to bring itback to our conversation is
addicts.
Is addicts that found the lightare so eager to share and find
that space because they foundthe secret sauce.
It's not to say that what workedfor you is going to work for

(29:18):
somebody else, but they look atyou as a possible desired out.
Like, I remember the last time Iseen you, you were passed out in
a ditch on Granville Street.
And now, you have this amazingcareer.
You're helping other people doit.
How did you do it?
And I don't think I've everheard of a single person who's
been through this shit, whetherit's business, whether it's
addiction, whether it's career,whether it's fitness.

(29:39):
Turn a blind eye to a personthat genuinely asks for help.
And genuinely asked for evenjust give me a nugget, give me a
little bit, like how, like, whatwas the first thing to do?
Did you get into a cold plunge?
Did you call 1 800 HELPLINE orthe suicide hotline?
What was it?
And it's just that beacon.

(30:00):
It's that momentum.
And I love that when you talkabout that, it's so powerful
because you're seeing it nowwith celebrities that you don't
want to be glamorized for this,but you're so willing to share.
And you're so willing to helpother people.
And it doesn't mean that theperson was as bad a situation as
you.
I mean, anybody that has,whether they listen to this or
look on your website or watchvideos of other people and are

(30:20):
like, damn, I got a fuckingproblem.
I need to get ahead of this.
You don't need to hit rockbottom.
You don't need to lose yourmarriage.
You don't need to lose your job.
You don't need to go bankrupt.
If you're trending down a pathwhere you reflect and you have
that awareness and you're justlike, man, a year ago, this is
not where I wanted to be when Iset my new year's resolution.
Fuck, I need to get some help.
That's the moment.
That's the lightbulb moment,right?

Zan (30:41):
Hell yeah, that's totally true.
You're always best suited tohelp the person that you once
were, right?
And I always say this is why mygoal is to be the person that I
needed 10 years ago.
Because I was grasping forsomebody.
I always say this, I was neversupposed to be in recovery.
I was never supposed to notdrink.
Like, that was never even aconsideration in my life.

(31:02):
To be this person.
It was always going to bedrinking.
I used to make fun of peoplethat didn't drink.
If I met someone, I wouldn'teven like.
Talk, I was such a dick, Iwouldn't even like talk to him
at parties or anything, I'd belike, this guy's no fun, or
whatever, he doesn't even drinkor whatever, right, but so it
wasn't supposed to be this wayfor me.
See, of course, shit happenedthe way that it happened, it was
necessary for it to happen, I'mso fucking grateful that it

(31:24):
happened but now I hope thatthere's somebody that was in the
same situation that I was, thatreaches out the hand of recovery
is always there.
Like you said, so many peopleare willing to help.
You know, I don't go to AAanymore, but the 12th step is to
basically pass it on to help anynewcomer, anybody that reaches
out.

(31:44):
My phone line is always open.
I've got people sometimesmessage me.
They're like, you don't know me,but I'm a friend of so and so,
and they said that you might beable to talk to me about this,
and I talked to everybody.
Of course, I, do this for aliving too, but it's a very
meager living, I'll say that.
It's you do it for thefulfillment rather than the
financial gain, that's for sure.
But it's and again, that's what,I had a very well paying secure

(32:07):
job for a long time, but I chosethis because exactly for this.
It sounds cheesy, dude, but Iwas fucking, called to this.
Like, I feel that this was mymission.
That's why I turned my back onmoney and security to.
I have none of it.
I'm just kidding.
It's not that bad.
But it's like, you know what Imean?
It's like I felt I was called todo this.
I truly, truly want to help.

(32:28):
And I truly, truly want to be,like you said, it's not an ego
thing to be a it's not like, oh,I'm so good.
And I figured this out.
And you listen to me and this iswhat we're going to do.
It's not like that at all.
That's not even what coachingis.
Coaching never gives advice.
The thinking is, is that theperson that wants help, they
have the answers within them anda good coach just helps them,

(32:50):
guides them to find that answerswithin themselves.
Sometimes I think about this,oh, people might think that, oh,
because you're a coach orbecause I do resiliency coaching
too, and like men's coaching.
That's another huge passion ofmine is men's coaching.
So I do this And people thinklike, oh this guy's got it all
together or this guy's whatever.
It's like fuck.
No, dude.
There's no pedestal.
There's no hierarchy here i'mjust somebody that figured out

(33:12):
some things along the way I didchange my life entirely in every
possible way physically mentallyspiritually emotionally
everything I don't advise peopleon what to do because what works
for me fucking doesn't work foreverybody If I had the answers
to recovery, I'd be a multimulti millionaire, because
everybody would want that shit.
But what works for one persondoesn't work for another.

(33:34):
But you can walk with somebody.
You could walk beside them.
You could encourage them.
It's like a fighter goes outthere and, lays their heart in
the ring.
Comes back for the round.
There's somebody there waitingfor them.
Like, you got this.
Have you thought about this?
What about this?
And sends them back out thereagain.
And that's really somewhat whata coach does.
There's no advice giving.
I don't have life figured out,even though I deal with people

(33:57):
and coach people in alldifferent situations.
I don't got it figured out.
I have a fractured relationshipwith my son.
I am twice divorced and multipleother broken relationships.
I'm working on it constantly.
But there's no hierarchy tothis, right?
I always say my whole thing isjust one strong man to another.
We're just one dude helpinganother dude.
Showing them that there is a wayout.

(34:17):
That's my fucking mission, is toshow, hey, there is a way out of
this.
If you want it, if you acceptwhere you are, and if you
accept, the key thing is, if youaccept that you did this, then
you're Everything that'shappened was a result of your
decisions and your actions.
When you accept that, that'swhen you know that you can
change it.
I've said this before, you buildthis life, you build it brick by
brick, man.
And because you built it, youcan fucking smash it down.

(34:39):
You can start all over again.
All of our lives, we're buildingthis house, right?
Are you building, is it on asturdy foundation?
Are you building strong walls toprotect what's inside, right?
All these sorts of things.
We build this and you can smashit all down and you can start
all over again.
And that's what I think happens.
I've seen it happen with peoplethat I've worked with.
It's like, fuck, once thatmindset change happens that,

(35:00):
hey, I'm in control here, right?
Like, I'm the captain of myship.
I am the author of my own story.
Once that happens that's whenreal recovery starts,

Alfred (35:08):
And I love all of that.
And towards the end there, whenyou talked about, destroying the
walls that you built, itreminded me of when you
discovered really quickly thatI'm a huge fan of analogies.
I remember us laughing at that.
And it reminds me of ChrisWilliamson when he talks about
manopause.
For those people that don't knowwhat that is.
And we're going to focus on menhere around this conversation,

(35:30):
because I think it's applicablebecause we're both men.
I think your coaching iscentered around men.
And I think this also directlyaffects men more than women is
manopause and he describes it asbetween 25 and 35 when you're
climbing this mountain, whetherit's career.
Whether it's social status,whether it's fitness, whatever
it may be, or perhaps you'regoing up the mountain of

(35:52):
destructiveness.
That analogy to make itapplicable, but climbing the
mountain of, drugs, alcohol,sex, addictions, destroyed
relationship, fracturedfatherhoods, whatever it may be,
when you get to the top and yourealize, and you look around,
you're like, fuck.
I should have climbed thatmountain as men were not afraid
to climb a mountain.

(36:13):
Courage is, I don't know manymen that don't have courage to a
degree.
I don't know many men that whenpresented with no options that
they'll fucking put on theirboots and go.
It's climbing down the mountainthat took you years and years
and years to summit.
That's the difficult part.
That's where most men struggle.

(36:33):
is if you wanna pivot in yourcareer, if you want to
acknowledge and get up to thetop and take that breath of
fresh air and you're like I'm inthe wrong fucking place.
I'm not supposed to be here.
It's the scaling back down thatis fucking daunting.
And I know that's veryapplicable to my life.
Mm-hmm.
very applicable.
I've wanted to pivot my life inmany ways for many years.

(36:54):
I've questioned my purpose.
I've questioned, what I do forwork.
I've questioned my marriage whenwe have rough times.
And it's that idea ofbacktracking.
It's that idea that society orfriends or family or whatever
may be, in every metricpossible, it will look from the
outside that you are goingbackwards.
Even though nobody asks you, whyare you doing this?

(37:16):
Nobody ever fucking asked thatdamn question.
Nobody asks, Zan, you're kind ofboring or you're not drinking
anymore.
You're a loser.
It's like, you don't know thewhy.
So I'm just going to keepfucking going.
And then I get to the base ofthe new mountain.
That's actually when it getseasy.
Because we're not afraid to dothat as men, we're not afraid of
fucking like, if you told methat I had to go back to school
to do something that I'm morepassionate about, that's not the

(37:38):
scary part.
The scary part is the losing theincome.
The scary part is losing thetitle of senior manager I've
gotten three promotions and nowI have to start back at the
bottom and have to compete with21 year olds.
Fuck that it's that ego, thatpride, and I think that's the
struggle for most people it'sthat idea that, and I'm not to
say that you have to summit thatmountain, but on your way up
three quarters of the way orwhatever, you're just like,

(37:59):
fuck, I made a huge mistake ornot necessarily a mistake, but
you might get there.
This isn't for me, not for me.
And sometimes there's externalfactors, but most of the time
it's an internal factor, yourvalues, pivot, your beliefs,
pivot, your desires, pivot.
And that's the hardest part.
And I think as men, we need tosupport each other on that

(38:21):
endeavor.
I'm not trying to show you.
Which mountain you need toclimb, that's you and you alone.
You need to decide that in allaspects of your life.
But if you need to help on theway down, that's when we grab
the rope together and we slowlymake our way down and make that
landing at the bottom a littlebit easier.
And I think that's the sauce.
That's the secret.

Zan (38:39):
Yes, dude, and that's such a great analogy.
And what a tragedy it is that somany men are on the top of that
first mountain, don't want to bethere and spend their whole
lives there because it's maybecomfortable.
Maybe they're afraid, there'sfear involved, but they stay
there for the whole time up onthe mountain.
They don't want to be on therelooking at the other mountain.
That's where I want to be.
But I can't because I'm afraidto go back down.

(39:02):
It took all this time to get uphere.
Well, now I don't want to goback down.
Right?
So I know people like that, too.
And there's no right or wronganswer.
You can be content on top ofthat mountain, the first one, if
you have a family that lovesyou, and you have a simple life,
and that's what you want.
And you got your snow machinesand your truck and your
whatever, like, that's if that'swhat you want, but You're right.

(39:22):
If you want to get to the othermountain, it's going to take
some work, physical work,internal work.
And it's a challenge.
And this is what, life is about.
Again, life is a mountain, man.
Climbing and going down,pivoting.
Getting into unsafe situationsbut basically fucking keeping
going, keeping pursuing what'son top of that mountain.
If that's what you want, if whatyou want is up there, you

(39:45):
fucking go get it.

Alfred (39:46):
Right.
I want to dive into yourexpertise here a little bit.
I really want people tounderstand how you bring value.
Cause I've seen it firsthand andI want people to kind of get a
little bit of a nugget.
So, How specifically is yourapproach?
How do you work with guys inrecovery?
And then on top of that, arethere any commonalities you see
with people either desiringrecovery or why they need

(40:07):
recovery in the first place?

Zan (40:09):
That's a great question.
Everybody comes for differentreasons.
I'll say that.
And everybody's story is unique,and they're all at various
stages of, what they are needingfrom me, I guess we'll say.
Basically, the first thing I dois see, like, how are they being
forced to be there?
Like, is it an ultimatum bytheir wife or their boss or
something?

(40:29):
Do they actually want recovery?
Sometimes they do, and sometimesthey don't, right?
So, it's like The old saying is,people will change when the pain
of staying the same becomesgreater than the pain of
changing.
Right?
So, there are people that comein when staying the same is just
too painful and they need tochange.
Right?
So, in that case, one of thefirst things that we work on is

(40:50):
acceptance, with myself, one ofthe things that I had to accept
when I did at that moment ofclarity was basically, something
needs to change, and it'sprobably me.
Because I looked at all of myrelationships, my drinking, it's
like something needs to changein this situation and all
fingers are pointing to me.
Okay, now that I've determinedthat, how am I going to do that?

(41:12):
Basically one of the firstthings I do with guys, I work on
this I might have actually toldyou about it before.
I can't remember if I told youabout the sailboat metaphor.
Well, you love your analogiesand your metaphors.
Let's go.
Fuck, you'll love this, man.
So it's not my own thing, butit's based out of a positive
psychology work.
Basically, the entire message ofmy coaching, whether it's men's
coaching, whether it's recoverycoaching whatever it is, is that

(41:34):
you are the captain.
of your ship, and you have beenfor your whole life.
You were at the wheel.
Everything that's happened toget you to there, you have been
steering this ship.
The good, the bad, thetragedies, everything.
You've been at the wheel.
And you're still at the wheel.
So what do you do when thestorms come in?
Like, do you grab the wheel andfight the storms?
Do you let the waves batter youback to sea?
Like, what do you do?

(41:55):
You're the captain and for therest of your days on this planet
or on the sea, you are thecaptain of the ship.
Right?
So that's the gist of how.
I work with guys.
So that's the first thing islike accepting that this is what
I was saying about somethingneeds to change and it's
probably me.
Well, I've been the captain ofthe ship.
So if it was fucking going in abad direction, it was me that
put it there.

(42:15):
If it was allowing people totravel with me that weren't
healthy for me, that was mebecause I'm the captain.
And guess what, dude, you're thecaptain of your own ship.
Everybody is the captain oftheir own ship.
Right?
we start with that and thenthrough this thing called the
sailboat metaphor.
So this is a way of examiningyour life.
Through eight different areas.
This is the starting point forall of the coaching with me.
So we do this, and they're allrelated to as if you were the

(42:38):
captain of your ship.
So we start with the water.
Well, the ship's on the water.
This is what's called lifedomain.
So this is your work, yourfriends, your relationship, your
finances, your hobbies.
This is the water that you aremoving in.
So we look at that, get reallyclear on, because oftentimes
where there's problems in one,it's going to lead to problems
in the other.
If you're having problems atwork, you're going to bring
stress home to your marriage,you're going to bring stress

(42:59):
home to your parenting, etcetera, or whatever.
So we look at where are youright now in the water?
Like, where are you sitting?
So that's element one.
Element two is the compass.
So every Capitan has a compass.
The compass represents youremotions.
So the captain looks to thecompass to see, you know gives
feedback to him about thedirection that he's going.

(43:20):
So your emotions are alwaysgiving you feedback.
Like, are you living in a stateof anger?
Are you living in a state ofjoy?
Maybe.
But what are the emotions goingon with you right now?
Is there jealousy?
Is there resentment?
Resentment is huge.
So we look at that, right?
That's the compass is youremotions.
The third element is yourvalues, and this is represented
by the steering wheel.
So one of the main things I doin coaching is figure out your

(43:43):
values, like your core values.
And dude, so many people do notknow what their core values are.
I would say like 20 percent ofpeople do maybe have really put
work into it and thought aboutit.
So.
we determine your values or yoursteering wheel.
Your values guide you, just likethe steering wheel guides the
ship.
So when you get clear on yourvalues, you can be like, okay,
am I sailing in a directionthat's in line with my values?

(44:06):
Oftentimes, it's not, especiallyaround addiction or any kind of
negative human behavior.
Oftentimes, you're not going inline with your values.
So getting clear on that allowsyou to be more aligned so you
can start moving in thedirection with your values.
And that changes a lot of thingsfor a lot of people.
A lot of people will say, Ididn't know that my value, or
maybe if you're an addiction,you have a core value of yours

(44:27):
is honesty, but you're lyingevery fucking day.
You're hiding an addiction orsomething.
Well, you're obviously out ofalignment, right?
Maybe you value family, but yetyou're working at a job that you
hate for 12 hours a day.
So that you can make money, butyour value is family, right?
So, anyways, we get clear onthat, and that's the steering
wheel.
The fourth one is the leaks.
So, a boat will have leaks onit.
This represents your weaknesses.

(44:49):
So, when I work with guys, let'sbe honest here.
What are your weaknesses?
Because guess what?
We all have them.
Let's figure them out.
What is it, are you quick toanger?
Do you procrastinate too much inyour life?
what is it?
And I challenge guys, and we sitand we talk about it.
what are your weaknesses?
What are your strengths?
And those are the leaks in theboat.
As soon as you repair one,another one pops up because
guess what?
We're all flawed human beings,right?

(45:09):
We're all just trying to getthrough this journey, but we
have leaks on our boat.
So it's identifying them,working on them.
The fifth element is the sails.
And the sails represent yourstrengths.
Okay, so if the leaks are theweaknesses, the sails are your
strengths.
So when the wind fills thesails, you start moving fast
with momentum.
So then we're like, hey, whatare your strengths here?

(45:30):
people don't know what theirstrengths are.
Like, maybe it's loyalty, maybeit's whatever.
But when you come up with fiveor to eight strengths of yours,
you're like, fuck, I'm a strongperson, actually.
I can use these things, and weuse that to kind of move
forward.
How can you use these strengthsin your life?
Where are you not?
Etc.
The sixth element is theweather.
So you're a captain on a ship,there's the weather.

(45:51):
This is the only element that'sactually outside of your
control.
The weather largely representsResiliency, pretty much.
What do you do when the stormscome?
You can't control the weather.
So what do you do?
Do you let those, that stormblow you down?
Do you choose to fight it ornot?
Because there's always going tobe storms.
There's a storm on the horizonalmost always, right?
So what do you do?

(46:11):
So that's the sixth element, butwe focus on that, how do you
focus on what you control?
How much of your anxiety,stress, depression is around
things that are actually outsideof your control?
you would be amazed, dude, athow much time human beings
stress and mental energy andanxiety, worrying about things
that we just cannot control.
When you get clear on that, andpeople accept that, I can't

(46:33):
control this, I will focus onwhat I can do.
What can I do in this situation,we're often not responsible for
the things that happen to us,especially the shitty things,
for sure.
We're not responsible for that,what people have done to us, but
how we react to it, that is 100percent within our control.
We get really clear on that andthat helps people move forward
right there, just getting clearon focus with what I can

(46:55):
control, start making theincremental changes that I need
to do to turn this ship around.
Right?
And sorry, I know I'm going onand on about this, but

Alfred (47:03):
Love it, man.
Keep going, dude.
There's this huge value for aton of people.
I'm a visual learner.
This whole idea of a sale.
It's painting a picture in myhead, right?
Kind of thinking of Johnny Deppon that boat and, how he's kind
of calm when things are goingnuts and he finds creative
solutions.

Zan (47:18):
Sometimes the weather is great.
Sometimes we're sailing and thesun is out, and it's smooth
seas, and we can kick back andenjoy life.
Like, savor those moments,because there's always a storm
coming, right?
So you always be aware thatthere's a storm coming, right?
So it's just a matter of, theweather we can't control.
That's the basic analogy behindit, but, the seventh element,
and I will just say this too, onmy website gallant coaching.

(47:40):
com, there's a visual of this.
So you can see the boat in themiddle and how it all goes
around.
So if anybody's interested, justcheck that out.
The seventh element is the otherboats.
Okay.
So you're the captain of thisship.
Who are you traveling with?
So we get really fucking clearon this.
Like are the people you'retraveling with helping you on
your journey?
Or are they somehow sabotagingyou?

(48:01):
Are they holding you back?
Are they there for you when yoursail rips or whatever?
Or are they sailing in front ofyou, slowing you down, right?
So you gotta get really clear inyour life on who you are
traveling with on this journey.
And people, when we do theseexercises, people are like,
fuck.
I've got some co workers thatare really holding me back, you
know, or like my dad, or my mom,somebody.

(48:22):
Sometimes it's their partner.
It's like, fuck, this personis...
Not helping me on my journey.
It might even be inadvertently,but you got to get clear.
You're traveling, and as Ialways say, all those other
boats you're traveling with,they have their own captains
too, so you have to berespectful of them.
Do they want you sailing withthem?
This is what you have todetermine, right?
So you get really clear on,you're the captain of the ship,

(48:43):
who the fuck is beside you inthis ocean?
And that can determine a lot ofthings about your direction too.
And the eighth one, there'seight elements.
The eighth one is the map.
Okay, the map represents yourgoals.
Where the fuck are you going?
Without a map, you're justfucking sailing in circles in
the ocean, wherever the windblows you, aimlessly, right?
But when you have a map, it'slike, here's where I'm going,

(49:03):
here's what I want, what is thebest way to get there?
And then you can look at it, sothat's your goal, right?
Whether it's recovery coachingor men's coaching, so many men
are lost because they have nogoal, they're not working
towards anything, there's nopurpose, there's no meaning,
they're going through themotions on this hamster wheel of
life.
And without something to bestriving for, something to
better themselves, or look, evenlook forward to in the future,

(49:26):
right?
And we can get small goals.
We get really clear on this.
You can get small goals or likebig goals, right?
So maybe you want to write anovel.
Maybe you want to go back toschool or something.
Like, whatever it is.
Save for retirement.
Those are like big goals.
And then there's small goals.
Fucking lose 10 pounds.
Whatever it is.
Get better at something.
Learn a different language.
But if you're not clear, Whereyou're going, you're never going

(49:46):
to get there.
So, what are you going to do tomove forward in recovery?
Recovery is meant to be embracedand enjoyed.
It's not meant to be tolerated.
If you choose recovery, it'sbecause you've chosen to better
yourself.
So what does that mean?
Is it a physical challenge?
Is it repairing a relationship?
I don't even know because it'sdifferent for every man.
Every man's unique, but what isit?
And let's get fucking crystalclear on it and let's help you.

(50:10):
I'm not going to tell you how toget there.
I can show you on the map.
Like, here's where you want togo, but I can't fucking get you
there.
So you need to do that, you'rethe captain.
That's what it all comes downto, is you are the captain, so
you decide.
And then we work together to setyou on course.
So I always say, a lot of mycoaching has to do with this
captain analogy.

(50:30):
But I always say, what the coachis is the lighthouse.
Right?
So every once in a while, you ascaptain, you're going to get too
close to shore.
You're going to get into somerocky waters.
Maybe a storm blows you into adangerous area, like you're
fucked.
Whether this is around anaddiction, or a divorce, or
anything that sets you back inlife.
Maybe you get fired, or laid offfrom your lucrative job, right?
Like you're going to get tooclose to the water.

(50:52):
A coach as a lighthouse.
I mean, just stands there.
It's a solitary object, but ithas a light.
It can guide you the client orthe person that is needing
guidance.
The whole goal is to get them tosail back out to the ocean.
So people come to me whenthey're getting too close to the
rocks, as an analogy, there'ssomething wrong, whether it's an
addiction, they're fucked,they're about to crash, maybe

(51:14):
they're about to crash and notsurvive.
The coach's job as thelighthouse is to just stand
there, be the guiding light.
With the ultimate goal of yousailing back out.
That's what the concept ofautonomy is, which I believe it,
that you are in control, youhave free will as a human
fucking being and as captain ofyour ship, you have free will.
So you need to get back out onthat ocean and start sailing

(51:36):
proudly and strongly like theman that you are.
And the lighthouse is the guideto get you out there.
But that's the analogy, I guess,for that.
It seems to make sense to meanyways.

Alfred (51:46):
You're speaking my language, dude.
Analogy Alfred approves of thatmessage.
I love it.
Yeah, that's really good.

Zan (51:53):
Something that I want to bring a little bit of
perspective to, and this isexperience for me going back,
talking about how I don't haveany, Childhood friends.
I don't have any of those corerelationships, but it's funny
because I come from the exactopposite.
My upbringing aside from myfather was men that spent their
entire lives together, rotaryclubs, Kingsman clubs, coffee
clubs.

(52:15):
when I think of successfullynavigating the waters of life,
to kind of piggyback on youranalogy, I think Pillar 7 is the
one where your circle fuckingmatters.
And for two reasons, and I willsay that, is...
When you have people that you'vebeen around with your entire
life, that you build this trust,this rapport, this camaraderie

(52:36):
with, especially as men, whenyou've been through the shit, it
speaks volumes.
It brings a degree of, I trusttheir body language, I trust
their lived experience, I trusttheir commitment and their
reliability to be there whenshit hits the fan.
But on the flip, and I thinkthis has been a detriment to men
well before the pandemic, butthe pandemic really put a

(52:57):
fucking microscope on it, is itallows our behaviors to be
audited.
Is I feel men, we are not goodjudges of our own behaviors.
We fucking suck.
Not just as men, as humans, butespecially as men.
It's really hard for peoplebefore when I used to party and
it's like, I'm talking loud.
I didn't think I was talkingabout what the fuck you talking
about?
I'm not in the room.

(53:18):
Or if you're being a bit of akiss ass at work and you're kind
of compromising on your valuesand your integrity a little bit,
get that promotion, back in theday, but also you find this with
people that I'm sure yourfriends in Sparwood that you've
been with if they've met you andthey know you since your
recovery journey, you startgoing down the wrong path,
they're going to fucking callyou out on it.
I hope so.

(53:39):
Right?
And so that's where it's superimportant where.
Now we have this fucking LoneRanger syndrome going on where
you have to be the jack of alltrades.
You have to be able to do allthe things women expect a man to
be able to kind of answer allthe questions and do all the
things.
And that's not how it was evermeant to be.
It was never meant to be likethat.

(53:59):
Everything you do is, is meantto be done, as a collective,
whether that's a family, whetherthat's friends, whether that's a
community, whether that's achurch, whether that's AA, you
think it in a collective wouldexponentially multiply the
results.
To a degree, and the reasonbeing is because of that

(54:22):
objective reality that otherpeople see you in.
If they're willing to share.
And you're willing to take thefeedback, good or bad, swallow
that ego and really understandthat this negative conversation
I'm about to have with you is inyour best interest.
And that's been huge for mebecause I didn't believe it for

(54:46):
years.
I always put myself up on apedestal.
For instance, if I had moreexperience in a gym.
Like man, what the fuck are youtalking about?
You don't lift weights or I'lleven say, I played competitive
paintball for years.
I have somebody new in thesport.
Listen, man, somebody brings afresh perspective, a fresh
evolutionary mindset, a fresh,youthful, tactical approach to

(55:07):
something.
It needs to be fucking valuedand demonized now because we've
lost that pack mentality.
We've lost that collective asmen mentality.
And it's fucking horseshit.
It's fucking horseshit.
Yes, dude.
And now you're speaking mylanguage too.
Yeah, I just said this in avideo recently is I don't know
where I may have been ChrisWilliams and that I heard

(55:28):
somebody said it, but just likethere's this lone wolf mentality
out there.
Right?
But guess what, man, the lonewolf doesn't survive without the
pack.
Right?
And I believe that too.
And through the work that I didthe past eight months or so,
I've been facilitating arecovery program for treatment
center, And small groups is likea rolling 5 week program small

(55:49):
groups, but it's what you'retalking about with when you get
a group of guys together it'sokay to somewhat challenge or
hold someone accountable.
That can be a game changer.
a group of guys, like I do a lotof one on one coaching, and I
love one on one coaching, I havefound that, a lot of guys that
eventually do reach out, theysay, Oh man, I wanted to reach
out a year ago.

(56:10):
I couldn't do it.
I was afraid or whatever ego,all sorts of these things of
showing weakness as a man orsomething got, got in the way.
And I love that one on one iswhere monstrous change can
happen because it's a.
When you can set the floor fora, nonjudgmental and
confidential space, like thetoughest guy in the world will

(56:33):
break down and say things thatthey haven't said in years or
ever.
And that is where true changehappens when you can access that
vulnerability.
Which I'm not even a huge fan ofthat word, but we need to do
that, right?
my point was, in this groupfacilitation that I've been
doing, is it's sometimes easierfor the guys to, amongst other
guys, to maybe come out of theirshell a little bit when the

(56:55):
stage has been set for that tobe welcomed.
So I've done.
Multiple groups of just men andI say to them right at the
beginning, I'm treating this asa little men's group.
This is what we're going to dohere.
This is going to be a men'sspace and they love it.
They're in this treatmentprogram, but we kind of take it
into this is a place where wecan actually share now
confidently knowing that this iswithin us.

(57:17):
Nothing ever leaves the spaceand we're here to support each
other and hold each otheraccountable.
It's been.
Amazing to lead those groups.
And I've seen what you'retalking about, that change,
right?
Of yeah, leaving that lone...
Alpha male mentality behindwhich there's a, don't get me
wrong, I'm very much in themasculinity space as well, and

(57:37):
there's a time and place for,for alpha behavior, but not
toxic alpha behavior, certainly,but yeah, it's just interesting
when the past, I mean, I've beendoing this work for about two
and a half years, and beforethis, I would have never thought
that I would be able to see men,you know, have such
breakthroughs for the firsttime, And literally change their
lives by talking about itamongst men.

(57:59):
I have had female clients in thepast recovery clients, as well
as other things.
And I do welcome them, but Ireally, I love to work with the
men that.
Is struggling and doesn't knowWho to talk to in his life
because he might be married foryears, but he can't talk to his
wife about this shit He mighthave best friends that they
watch hockey with or ufc or theygo to the pub and they talk

(58:19):
about chicks and they talk aboutdumb shit and Whatever not dumb
shit because it's important, butyou know what I mean?
They're not sharing their fearsabout life They're not sharing
their insecurities.
Even whether they're having likea Problems with their sex life
or anything like that, right?
But you, it's been amazing tosee, multiple guys get to the
point where, and these are, likeI said, the toughest, most alpha

(58:41):
guys to get to see that side ofthem.
And it's just when you startworking on that healing, whether
it's through recovery or just alot of times it is after a
heartbreak.
After a divorce, after beingrejected, after, suffering a
devastating personal defeat,that's when you start to accept
that healing needs to takeplace.
And it's fucking amazing when itdoes.

(59:01):
It happened to me.
And it's, I've seen it happen toother people.
I know it's happened to, but youhave to be willing.
You have to be open minded andwilling and honest with
yourself., that goes fullcircle, right?
And it's all applicable to oneoverarching goal of recovery and
open mindedness and awareness.
And that's important forpeople..
I know that you've discoveredhealth.

(59:21):
You've discovered physicality.
You've discovered challenges.
The men's group that I've been apart of extremely conscious
since February.
We had a meeting this morningabout what the next journey is,
what's on the plate.
Because over the summer, we didthe Jordan Peterson self
authoring, the link that Ishared with you.
So, that might be a friendlyreminder for you to get started
on that, because that brings upa lot of stuff, man, I will tell

(59:42):
you right now.
Doing past authoring and, andwelling into those previous
traumas and really bringing themto the surface and then
reflecting on them in thepresent and then future
planning, We're starting on thefitness journey here.
And I I did open it and I havelooked at that, by the way, it's
a, yeah, no, no, for sure.
And, and I loved when I sharedthat with you, cause I think
especially you and people listento this podcast, be like, man,

(01:00:02):
this clown needs to write a bookfor sure.
It's like, and really that isthe start of people starting an
autobiography.
One of the guys in our men'sgroup, I think is over 30, 000
words self authoring.
So he's really brought up a lotof stuff Where I was going with
this is this last iteration ishealth and wellness because I've
discovered recently, thecourageous rah rah getting into

(01:00:22):
a frozen lake and people call mecrazy for it and that's all fine
and dandy finding that reallyopens your eyes to realize how
powerful you are.
But it's that long terminvestment of health and
wellness and really creating aregiment, building yourself
physically so you can see it.
It's easy to, I shouldn't sayit's easy when you change your
mindset and you go through thatbattle.

(01:00:44):
It's hard to show people thework you've done.
It's hard to show people thegrowth or the change, but when
you put in the physical work,and I want to really touch on
this with you, because you're abeast, man.
I mean, some of the shit thatyou've done, and I don't want
you to undersell that, you're afucking beast, is is I feel like
that is a very important coreingredient.

(01:01:08):
To anybody who's struggling withanything in their life, when you
can put your body through thestresses, but then realize that
we are organisms and we buildourselves up bigger, better,
stronger, faster, that really isimportant.
And I'm slowly learning thatthat's a huge component for me.
I really needed to mature.
First, and I know I'm probablycoming with excuses why I can't
do fucking push ups.

(01:01:28):
That's why I'm committed todoing push ups every day.
That's why I'm committed toeating better.
not drinking alcohol, but then Istacked that goal with I only
consume coffee and water.
I don't consume pop anymore.
I drank the odd Gatorade when Ineed the electrolytes and I'm
really putting in the work.
I don't drink that stuff on aregular anymore.
It's literally water and coffeein the morning because I'm a

(01:01:50):
shift worker.
And if I didn't have coffee, I'dbe motherfucking dead.
That's the real deal.
So if you want to touch on thata little bit about, you know, I
got it on here.
Some of the notes, like you'vedone ultra marathons, you've
done 75 hard.
I really want you to dive intothat.
Cause I'm fucking eager to trythat one day.
Cause we both love Andy.
That guy is the fucking realdeal for any of you.
The real podcast, it willfucking change your life.

(01:02:13):
That guy is no joke.
And if you want to dive intothat, man, cause I think people
hearing your backstory and thenseeing it come, not just a
victory of finding recovery, butliterally becoming your best
mental self, but also your bestphysical self.
Yeah.
Thanks, man.
And.
It is a journey without an end.

(01:02:34):
It's like recovery, right?
Like you're never recovered.
You don't get a certificate thatsays, congratulations, you are
now recovered.
It's a constant journey, justlike fitness, physical as well
as mental and emotional.
For myself, I've talked aboutit, I spent 25 years as a severe
binge drinker and a drug abuser.
So of course you're unhealthy.
I didn't have a good night'ssleep for many, many years, if I

(01:02:55):
slept at all.
of course with that, withaddiction comes a shitty diet.
It...
Is shitty input via your, whatyou watch on TV, the people you
hang around with, the, whateverit is, right?
So, I was very unhealthy for along time.
I did start making some changesbefore I stopped drinking.
I remember, and dude, at onepoint I was 270 pounds.

(01:03:18):
And not a fit 270.
There's a picture on the firstpage of my website, I believe.
Gallup Dash Coaching.
That it's like a side by side ofwhat I was like in 2012 and what
I was like now.
Yeah, bloated.
I always joke my face lookedlike a plate, it was so round.
But just unhealthy and always inthat picture, I'm smiling, but

(01:03:40):
behind that smile was so muchpain.
And oftentimes with fitnessjourneys, that's where it's
almost born of pain.
Sometimes it's born ofheartache.
It's born of some personaldefeat that you.
All of a sudden feel the fire torise from those ashes from
right?
So I had started getting inshape.
I've told the story before, butI one day I was very out of
shape.
I smoked too heavily, heavysmoker everything, weed,

(01:04:03):
cigarettes and one day I waslike, fuck, I feel like I should
go for a run.
So I, like, put on my ConverseChuck Taylors Walked my fat ass
down to the track, and I think Idid like one or two laps, and
fuck, I was like, exhausted.
I was like, holy shit, I've,that was brutal.
But I felt good afterwards.
I was like, oh shit, okay, like,that felt good to get outside,
get some fresh air, I'm gonna goagain.

(01:04:24):
And then, of course, just thistransition happens.
You start going, and it's like,oh, maybe I should get a pair of
running shoes.
Maybe it's pouring rain inVancouver all the time, maybe
I'll get a rain jacket, orwhatever, right?
You just start.
Gradually doing these things.
And of course, it's likeanything.
Once you start seeing the resultyou get motivated.
It's that wind in your sails,right?
It's your strengths.
the reason people quit fitnessjourneys or any kind of

(01:04:45):
betterment journeys is becauseit takes a while to get the
results.
If you go start lifting weights,people give up three months in
when they don't see their, theirshirts aren't fitting any
tighter, right?
It's like, well, fuck this, butit's like, it takes time.
Iron is forged in the fire, man.
Steel is forged in the fire, youhave to give it time, you have
to pound on it, make it get tothat strength.
Again, a long story short, Istarted running, I started

(01:05:06):
boxing.
This is all still when I wasdrinking, I used to go to
boxing, I was so hungover.
And I used to say, like, don'thit me in the stomach, man, I'm
gonna barf all over this ring.
But I continued my veryunhealthy lifestyle with
sporadic bits of exercise.
But, when my second wife left,like I said, it destroyed me.
I fucking hit the gym hard.
And over the years, I'd go tothe gym here and there, never

(01:05:29):
with any urgency or passion.
And I started hitting the gymfucking hard.
And part of it was getting outmy...
frustrations, my broken heart, Ididn't know what else to do.
Even though I was still drinkingat the time, I started lifting
weights and when I stoppeddrinking, fuck dude, everything
changed.
Number one, I lost like 30pounds just from not drinking.

(01:05:49):
Like weight just fell off of me.
Like all of those empty caloriesfrom beer and the garbage diet,
the pizza, the fucking whatever.
Weight just fell off me.
So all of a sudden I was feelingpretty good.
Well, that's the momentum.
Make a long story short, Istarted road running, and then
one day I ran by a forest andthere was a trail and I was
like, oh my god, where does thistrail go to?
And just started going down thistrail and that changed

(01:06:10):
everything.
I, Fell in love with trailrunning.
For the physical aspect, butdude, the mental aspect of being
by yourself, out in the forest,deep in the forest, is fucking
magical.
Like, we haven't talked muchabout, like, faith or
spirituality or anything, butthat's where I fucking, that's
where I found my spiritualityout there too.

(01:06:31):
So I really took to trailrunning, and it was like, I
started doing, like, localraces, like a 5k race, and I'd
be like, holy shit, I did arace, and a 10k race, and it's
like, This is the concept ofself efficacy, right?
It's like the belief that youcan do something if you put your
mind to it.
So once you do a say a 10k race,it's like, fuck, okay, I did
that.
Maybe I could do a halfmarathon.
Like, maybe.

(01:06:51):
But, two years ago, that thoughtwouldn't have even been in my
mind.
Like, there's no way.
But maybe I can.
So you...
Start making a plan, and youregister for it.
Now you've registered.
Remember I was talking about themap?
Now you've got something to worktowards.
You've got a date, and a time,and a place to be, maybe three
months from now.
Okay, so what do I do?

(01:07:11):
Well, I fucking gotta starttraining.
I gotta do this, then you dothat, and then you do another
one.
And then it's like, could I do amarathon?
And I always say I got soberwhen I was...
I stopped drinking when I was 38years old.
And then when I was 39, I said,I'm going to do a marathon by
the time I'm 40.
And that's what I did.
So I did my first road marathontwo weeks before my 40th

(01:07:33):
birthday.
And then it became, could I doan ultra marathon?
Which is, that's anything 50k ormore, and they're always in the
mountains, they're not roads, soit's okay, so started training
for that, did that, now it'sjust been, I think I've done 10
ultra marathons now I've done 50milers, that's 80 something
kilometers and I always stressthis, I'm not good at it.

(01:07:54):
I'm like mid pack at best.
It's not like I'm out therefucking crushing the competition
and podiuming or anything likethat.
No, but I'm fucking huffing andpuffing.
I'm still 205 or 210.
I was pulling my fucking heavyass up those hills and the
mountains but I finished.
I pride myself on that.
I haven't I haven't not finishedone yet despite some very close
calls of quitting.
75 hard.
Yes.

(01:08:15):
75 hard.
I did that with my girlfriend,which if your listeners don't
know, just Google it.
Hashtag 75 hard, Andy Frasella'sprogram.
It's multiple differentchallenges that you have to do
daily.
It's very difficult.
I joke about this too because onday 39, I was done.
I was fucking done.
I told my girlfriend, I'm done.
I'm out.
You can continue if you want.
And she's like, bullshit.

(01:08:37):
You said you were going tofucking do this.
I'm continuing on.
Are you really going to let mecontinue on and you not do it?
So I was like, okay, dear.
And we did finish it.
We also did something called thegreat virtual race across
Tennessee when COVID hit and allthe running races canceled.
They did this online virtual 1.
so it's the length of Tennesseeis 1000 kilometers or it's like
1020.

(01:08:57):
so they did this challenge whereyou had 4 months to go 1020
kilometers and there was atracker so every day you didn't
put how far you ran and youcould track your way across
Tennessee kind of thing.
And the guy that organized itwas from Tennessee.
That's why they did it.
But That was fucking hard.
You had to do a minimum of eightkilometers a day, walking or
running to just barely finish toget there right in the four

(01:09:19):
months.
So I'd run like 30 kilometers ina day, then take like two days
off.
My girlfriend, when she was outthere every day doing eight to
10 kilometers.
In the, in Vancouver, in fuckingpouring rain, snow, whatever it
was, right?
So anyways, she's a beast aswell.
I have to recognize her for herknocking off challenge.
She actually did that one twice.
The next year too.
She said, do you want to do thevirtual race with cross tennis?

(01:09:41):
So I was like, fuck no, but shedid it.
And she went out there everysingle day to get her
kilometers.
She was injured.
She still went out.
She's very focused and aninspiration to me as well.
So.
Yes.
75 hard is hard, but I highlyencourage you to do it, buddy.
It's worth it to get to that75th day.
It's a, it's no joke.
Yeah I've heard good thingsabout it.

(01:10:02):
And as we go into this fourthquarter of my men's group and
I'm discovering the fitnessaspect of, and really wanting to
carve out that aspect of mylife, I'm learning more and more
that fitness in any modality Isonly the surface, it literally
scratches the surface of theoverarching net result.

(01:10:22):
So for instance, 75 hard and forthose, I'll give people a quick
summary.
It's to 45 minute workouts aday.
One of them has to be outsideevery day.
No breaks.
Four liters of water a day.
That was the hardest part forme.
Yeah.
That's not like 50 times a day.
It's ridiculous.
It's if you're not sweating outa liter of water a day, you are,

(01:10:44):
it's not enjoyable.
You have to read 10 pages a dayof a nonfiction, no alcohol.
I believe there's one more.
You have to take a progresspicture every day.
Yeah.
And that's difficult too, toremember to do that every day.
You have to pick a diet.
Something that's different thanwhat your normal diet is.
Something that's a bit of achallenge.

(01:11:04):
For mine, I went vegetarianfirst and last time that that's
going to happen, but I did itfor 75 days.
That's awesome.
But where I was going with that,where I was going with that is
if you told me, if you laid outa program in front of me and you
called it 75 hard, and youexplained to me those
parameters, no cheat meals, nocheat days.

(01:11:24):
It's 75 fucking days of this twoand a half months.
Is if you told me that I'm like,man, that's a crazy fitness
challenge, but Andy doesn't callit a fitness challenge.
It's a mindset challenge.
And the more and more I look atit, the more and more I look at
people that have the disciplineand the fortitude to work out
every day or close to every day,five days a week, whatever may
be the people that wake upearlier than you can even

(01:11:47):
conceive in your brain to dosomething as difficult as sweat
your face off, burn yourmuscles, get a pump, gasp for
air.
It sounds crazy on the surfacelevel.
You're just like, man, that'sfucking insane.
Cause the life's all aboutcomfort.
Life's all about, only doingwhat you want to do and all this
bullshit, the more and more Ilook at it and the more and more

(01:12:08):
I find my why, why I need tostart doing this and you can
shoot for the fence and you canswing for the fences of, I need
to do it for my family.
I need to do it so that I mygrandkids someday.
And that is true.
There is merit to that.
I will say, but you will buildyourself mentally more than you
will build yourself physically.

(01:12:28):
When you can say no to somebodywho puts donuts in front of you,
or a big fat fucking icecappuccino from Tim Hortons on a
30 degree day in July, thattakes some fucking cojones, man.
Yes, dude.
It really does.
And when you can do thatconsistently, because
eventually, like you said, withrecovery, you know, eventually

(01:12:51):
when you get to the point whereyou don't even desire it
anymore.
It would be to the point wherenot only would you look at that
and you would say, that's justnot for me, but it would start
going through your head whereyou're like, how could you want
to do this?
And you always have this desireto reach out and be like, do you
realize what this is?
It's a fucking cup of sugar,bro.
Like it's going to fucking killyou, but that's what it's going

(01:13:12):
to do.
And that's objective reality.
And people know this, peopleknow that eating chips is bad
for you, but we still do it.
Yeah.
Oh, I love some Miss Vicky's.
I'll tell you that.
But where I was going with thatis the health and wellness, it's
been so focused and sold topeople on the big muscles, the
more bench, all this stuff.

(01:13:32):
And I feel more now, the peoplethat I'm discovering through
this independent coaching orthrough people that have
actually been through it, it'sactually more mental.
Then it is physical.
And that's actually the muscle Ifeel like growing the most is my
mental abilities, and I've seenit on the surface level with my
courageous component is gettinginto cold water, doing difficult

(01:13:55):
hikes, jumping off 50 footcliffs and travel destinations
that doesn't bother me.
And most men, it doesn't mostmen were willing to answer the
call, especially when you'resurrounded by other men.
If somebody calls you, you'relike, man, motherfucker, I got
to do this.
All right, let's do it.
And that's fine.
That's totally cool.
But it's that other component.
Like you said, when you're inthe trail by yourself.
And you're playing that mentalgame with yourself.
Like, why am I out here?

(01:14:16):
What the fuck is this for?
But then it's a situation wherewhether you listen to the Kobe
Bryant's of the world, who usedto do 2 a.
m.
Practices.
Or you listen to the JockoWillinks of the world, you know,
and read his books and stuff.
And there's so many resourcesout there.
But the one common message isyou don't just build your body,
you build your mind.
And that is something that overthe last few years, we've

(01:14:38):
learned that.
It's really hard to put avisual, tangible, measurable
component to it, but the peoplethat look themselves in the
mirror that can fucking do that,that can run the ultras, that
can do the 75 hard.
You are unwavering in yourconvictions and everything you
do in life.
And that, for me, is a hugeinspiration that you bring to

(01:14:58):
the table for me, is not justthe recovery component of it,
because you could have honestlyhung your hat on that, and be
like, I'm recovered, good to go,that's enough.
I could just coast through lifeand everything, but no, you
stack that win with somethingthat is, it's going to pay you
dividends in 15, 20, 30 yearsfrom now.
And that's the journey I'm onright now is that health and
wellness.

(01:15:18):
And that's the goal for me.
Yeah, dude, I love it.
Yeah, the mindset muscle, man.
You build it like any othermuscle, right?
Certainly with 75 hard when youJump back quickly when you take
those pictures If you're doingit, right, there's a
transformation like my beforeand after picture, I went from
Decent shape to like full sixpack in 75 days.
Like it was pretty incredible sothe physical thing is there but

(01:15:40):
it's the Like you said, it's themindset thing, right?
Like, I say this often aboutultra running, it's equivalent
to 75 hard.
It's like, and I also say itabout recovery.
Like, any of this shit is youhave to go to battle but if you
never go to war, you'll neverknow if you're a hero or a
coward, right?
And that's a somewhat strong wayto put it, but, ultra running or
75 hard.
It teaches you about yourself.

(01:16:01):
It teaches you how to strugglethrough things, how to do things
when you don't want to do them.
Like, people say to me oftenthey'll say like, Oh, my God,
you ran 80 something kilometersin this ultra marathon.
Like, that must have been sohard.
And I'm like, No, the hard partwas the months and months of
getting up at 4 30 in themorning and being outside in the

(01:16:21):
pouring cold rain in the winter,in the mountains before the sun
comes up.
And like, that's the hard part.
And then being sore for days ata time, being difficulty getting
out of bed, sacrificing yourrelationship time all in service
of this goal.
That's the hard part.
The day is the celebration.
That's when it all comestogether, right?
The hard part, what actuallyforges you, it's like that iron,

(01:16:44):
steel, and the fire.
That's done in the months aheadof time, right?
So that's what doing thesethings, they teach you about
yourself.
How willing am I going to gointo discomfort?
See, we have to relearn ourrelationship with discomfort,
because comfort's easy, right?
But that's not where growth is.
The couch is easy.
Sitting on the couch watchingNetflix or whatever, that's the
easy part, eating those MissVickies, whatever it is, that's

(01:17:06):
the easy part, right?
And I think a lot of what you'resaying is around men
rediscovering their relationshipwith discomfort, and knowing
that that is where we find whatdefines us, right?
That's where willful suffering,whether it's getting into a
frozen lake, or climbing amountain.
Doing a race, doing a 75 hard,just going to the fucking gym,

(01:17:28):
whatever it is, right?
Like, putting yourself intouncomfortable, that's where real
growth happens.
Like you said, it's a, it's amuscle.
And, you know running ultramarathons is a certainly a tough
thing.
And, and 75 hard is certainly atough thing.
But what's really tough is,admitting where you are in life,
committing yourself to a processof improving it.
And then moving forward day inand day out, you have to find

(01:17:50):
that in order to do thesethings, right?
So, and I always say this, youmentioned Jocko, like, there's
David Goggins and stuff, so manyof us look at these people, or
maybe those are bad examples,because they're otherworldly,
but we look at athletes, we lookat other people, and we think
they have something that wedon't have.
But they don't, man.
Guys look in the mirror and theythink about their dreams of what
they want to do, whether it's anultramarathon or some physical

(01:18:12):
challenge or whatever, and theyjust say, like, I don't have it.
But they do.
I look to other people, and Ioften, I catch myself doing this
all the time.
I'm like, that guy.
And before I stopped drinking, Iused to do this all the time.
I'd like look to other people,I'd be like, well they, that's
not me.
I can't do that.
But we need to realize thatthey're just a man, just like
us.
They're just a man that startedsomething and then dedicated

(01:18:33):
themselves to it.
And then after that, their livesgot better.
So it's like, you have to justgo out day after day after day,
whatever the challenge is tobuild that muscle.
And that's where you're going tofind out what you really are.
There's no difference betweenyou and anyone that's doing what
you want to do.
Right?
They're just somebody that didit and started taking those
incremental steps, little steps.

(01:18:54):
They've realized at some pointthat they had it in them to do
that.
So why can't you?
Why can't any man?
Right?
it's maybe easier said thandone.
It took me a long time, buteverybody right now is capable
of making that change.
Age doesn't matter.
Neither does your story, yourhardships, your traumas.
none of that shit matters.
We all have it in us.
Every single person we look upto is what I was saying about

(01:19:15):
looking up to people.
Or people that we want to belike, they started exactly where
we are now.
And we can never forget that,because we can keep making
excuses.
People make excuses all thetime, men make excuses, I still
do in areas of my life,certainly, that's what I'm
saying, like, not, nobody'sfucking perfect, I make excuses
too, but we need to be workingon, are we going to keep making
excuses for ourselves?

(01:19:35):
Are we going to keep tellingourselves that we're different?
Then that person that's doingwhat we want to do.
we have everything in us rightnow.
We just have to go get it.
And that's what I started to doin recovery.
That's what I try to coachpeople on is like fucking you
have it.
Go get it.
It may be difficult.
I always say this aboutrecovery.
Is it difficult?
Yes.
Is it worth it?
Fuck yes it is.
So it's like, whether it'srecovery or physical things or

(01:19:59):
whatever your goal is, orwhatever you want to be, the
person you want to be, whoeveryou aspire to, of course it's
going to be difficult.
Nothing worth having or being isworth it if it's easy.
The challenges and thehardships, that's where when we
look back, we go, I fucking didit.
I did it, I put my nose to thegrindstone, I got up early, I
did the shit that I was supposedto, what I didn't want to, I had

(01:20:20):
discipline, and now I got what Iwanted out of it, right?
This is part of the journey thatwe're on, and I like what you're
saying about that mental muscle,physical, mental.
It's really hard to find this,I'll just say, since we're
talking about recovery a lot,it's really hard to find this
when you're clouded.
By the person I am now, if 10years ago, me wouldn't have even
believed the person I am now.
I wouldn't even like the personI am now.

(01:20:42):
It's like, and I say this topeople, if you haven't seen me
in a long time, you don't evenreally know me because, you
know, a different version of me,but it can happen for anybody
when you dedicate yourself toit, build that physical muscle,
build that mental muscle.
But it comes down to, focusingon it, getting clear about what
you want, and going and gettingit, right?
I know you know this.
I know that this is part of yourmindset as well.
So maybe it's a lot of what arethe people we follow.

(01:21:03):
I follow inspirational people.
Online, I follow people thatinspire me to do that.
Everything that I just saidthere in that rant, that's like
probably osmosis things thatI've heard Goggins say, or
things that I've heard forSalisay over the thing.
Right.
It's just like, this is who we,we aspire to be these people,
but we also take the steps thatwe need to do to get there

(01:21:24):
because we know they're nodifferent than us.
Right.
That can stop people in theirtracks.
I can't do it.
I'm different than them.
You're not.
Yeah.
I love that concept of curatingyour life.
Two points on here and thenwe'll finish on one for you.
We follow inspirational people.
And this is something that Ifound myself doing during the
pandemic, but even before thepandemic that getting into that
comfortable lifestyle is beingguys, we are sold vice every

(01:21:46):
day.
The society, the economy,fucking everything that we
consume, everything is designedto find our dopamine kicks, our
secret pleasures.
I've done a really good job ofcurating the content I consume,
but, this might just be a hackfor some guys is.
Man, when I first signed up forInstagram and you go to that
suggested search reel and you'relooking for pages that might be

(01:22:08):
cool and fun and all that stuffand our phones fucking listen to
us, I'm super convinced thatfucking happens, but you'll see
these pages of women shakingtheir ass or fake having sex and
it's like click my link for 10bucks a month to see me on this
shit just so everyone is aware.
If there's something thatdoesn't serve you and you look
at it and you're just like, man,why is this popping up?
There's three little buttons atthe top of the right hand

(01:22:29):
corner.
You can click those and say,show less.
And it takes a little bit longerthan for you to like or comment.
when you do that enough, youeventually find yourself
curating your life to onlypositive content.
So that way you don't only haveto seek out positive content
that it means that bad contentwill not just pop up in your
life.

(01:22:50):
And that goes for any of thesestupid fucking videos, like man,
I'm in a paintball communityonline, and I don't know if we
got a virus, or a bot, orwhatever it is, but it was these
fucking Asian porno videos theywere putting on there, and like,
I'd be the first one to see it,cause I mean, Facebook and
social media companies bring itdown pretty quickly, but like,
it's literally tits and ass.
on Facebook.

(01:23:10):
And I was like, this is fuckingporn hub.
Like, this is crazy.
There's this really cool, Applehas it but this is something we
started doing in our men's groupis If anybody listening, I
challenge you to go on devicewellbeing on an Android or
whatever it is for your iPhoneand track how much time you
spend on your phone a day.

(01:23:34):
I don't know.
You would I don't have time.
And then you look and you'relike, I was on Facebook for two
and a half hours.
What the fuck was I doing?
Great.
And you, but what's crazy isjust like the gym, when people
talk about.
It's daunting.
It's overwhelming.
I don't know how to lift.
I don't want to stop mid set andtrack my weight and track my

(01:23:55):
reps and all this.
This is a short term thing thatyou have to do because you're
not educated.
So with something like that onyour phone, you can set up
alerts.
You can set up there's actuallyan app it's called minimalist
app.
I have it on my phone that everytime if I exceed one hour on
Instagram, the next time I openup Instagram, it brings up my

(01:24:16):
fitness app.
It automatically populated andit took a long time to set that
up.
And so that day that I set itup, if I looked at my metrics,
yes, I would have been on myphone quite a bit for sure.
No doubt.
But you can customize and curateyour life around you.
We are in the age of informationand technology.
There is absolutely nothing thatthese phones cannot do.

(01:24:39):
These are hacks that you can dovery simply.
That it may not get you going,but it'll stop keeping you
sitting.
It'll stop making you standstill.
And these are little, littletips and everybody has them, but
different strokes for differentfolks.
And this is the sort of stuffthat if you want to stop seeing
TNA, if you want to stop seeingguys play video games, if you

(01:25:01):
want to stop seeing dumb ass netzero shit in your life, Do the
work.
And I'm not saying go liftweights right now, I'm saying
you can curate any content thatyou consume right now.
The same thing the way we usedto do with channels, when you
used to get cable TV, you'relike, Fuck no, I don't want the
Discovery Channel.
Or I don't want to see rhinoshumping all day, And I feel
like, as men, it's exponentiallyworse because we're given these

(01:25:24):
really polarizing, extremethings that give us these
chemical kicks.
It's like, fuck yeah, I want tosee that.
Or, I've had a bad day.
I need a bit of a quasi release.
I just wanted to let people knowthat you can absolutely curate
your life.
To be only consuming goodcontent, but also eliminating
the negative in your life thatis pushing you down.

(01:25:47):
Oh, I love that.
And, and actually I needed tohear that.
That's you know, when we weretalking about, and I'll just
quickly say what you were sayingabout that.
As men, the dopamine hit, thewhatever, like, think of the
young men, think about theirworld of the snapshot, the
TikTok, all of these things, myInstagram I go to the search and
it's the same thing as you, it'sall these, Like jiggly titties
and like all this kind of stuff.
And I'm like, I don't search forthis.

(01:26:08):
I just go to the search bar andthat's what's there.
I'm like, I do not type this in.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm a fan, but I'm not like, I'mnot getting the jiggly ones.
What are you like?
I need your secret sauce.
What's going on there?
I'm a fan when I, when I chooseto go for that.
But it's like, If I'm in thegrocery store and I open up
Instagram and go to my searchthing, like that's all that

(01:26:29):
comes up.
I was just thinking about thislike today or yesterday.
I'm like, I did not search forall of this content.
And some of it, to be fair, isvery extreme, like extreme
content.
And I'm like, why is this here?
I didn't search for this.
What you're saying about thetime I do get notifications and.
We were talking with this bringscomes full circle to recovery

(01:26:50):
and how nobody's perfect oranything like that.
You know, I'm not a master ofaddiction.
I have to face the facts that Ispend way too much time on my
phone.
I would almost definitelyconsider it an addiction.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I do work on my phone too, butlike my Instagram, when I get
those notifications, I don'teven want to shame myself by
telling you what they say to youpersonally, but it's like a lot

(01:27:11):
of time on.
Instagram and thankfully, Inever got TikTok.
I never got Snapchat.
And what is it?
It's that dopamine.
It's them keeping you, hookingyou, the hook.
There you go again, It's sopowerful.
We're of different I think I'mabout 15 years older than you,
and so we're even different.
But then there's got, you're 15years older than my kid and I
see the way that he is growingup in the technology.

(01:27:34):
All of those problems withpornography and dopamine and
it's fucking scary, man.
And it's out of control.
Yeah.
So the one thing I do want toend on is I know, and I'm super
pumped for this because thisgoes back full circle for your
journey is leaving, a reallycushy job, one that you're
really good at something that'srelatively applicable to what
we're doing.
And you're getting into themen's coaching space, but you're
relaunching yourself.

(01:27:54):
You're rebranding yourself.
And I've seen it, I've seen thefire, the few videos you've put
out, your smile is fucking earto ear.
You're calm demeanor, but youcan really tell that, you're
wanting to kind of talk at anelevated octave.
You can just see that it'ssparking something.
I can't wait to see it.
I can't wait to see yourmessage.
I can't wait to see your desiredgoal.
I don't know if you have any.

(01:28:15):
Initial thought processes ofanybody that might be intrigued
with this stuff.
Cause where I'll go with thisreal quick is if you would have
asked me two, three years ago,men's coaching, fitness,
coaching, social media,coaching, all this independent
coaching, the word I would haveused as snake oil, because I've
had a lot of bad experiences.
And I think people will callthemselves an entrepreneur.

(01:28:35):
People will call themselves acoach when they haven't done the
work.
And I know now from experiencetalking to damaged men, working
with men that, were overweightor went through divorces or
struggled with, you know,marriages or children or
business or whatever it may be.
When I talk to these people thata little bit of their life

(01:28:56):
experience is applicable to me,and they have that actual lived
experience that speaks volumesand that is a service I'm
willing to pay for no differentthan when I pay a chef at a
really nice restaurant to cookmy food and it's a really
reputable restaurant.
It's the exact same thing.
Now glant coaching.
com may not be the mainstream.
People may not know a ton of it.

(01:29:16):
It may not get a ton of traffic.
But if people don't know alreadylistening to this podcast,
you've been through the shit andyou have lived experience,
whether it be recovery, whetherit be fitness, whether it be
fatherhood, whether it be,traveling or living in other
countries, whatever it may be.
I have no doubt in my mind theday you write an autobiography,
it's going to be a fucking greatbook.
Where I'm going with this is Iknow that your coaching brings

(01:29:40):
value and years ago, I wouldhave never invested in myself
through investing throughcoaches.
I would have never done itbecause I had bad experiences.
I thought it was a farce.
I thought these clowns are goingto sell me some fucking Google
fucking course.
They're going to downloadsomebody else's PowerPoint
presentation.
It's going to be bullshit nowthat I've done it.
Now that I've actually done thework and I've actually truly

(01:30:01):
invested significant amounts ofmoney into personal coaches,
men's coaches, men's groupwellness retreats, whatever it
may be.
I can fucking tell anybody who'slistened to this.
It is insane what it can do foryou.
It is on fucking believable.
It does take the right coach.
I will say that.
And there is a vetting processand I have found.
That not only when consumers vetthe coaches, but the coaches can

(01:30:24):
vet the consumer.
That's when the relationshipreally, really takes off.
And that's when you can reallyfind that perfect, perfect
person for you.
So I'm excited for your mission.
And I don't know if you have anydetails, your vision, what it
might entail when it's going tolaunch.
I just want to give you thefloor to excite anybody who's
listening to this, includingmyself.
That might want to jump in onthis.

(01:30:45):
Well, thanks, dude.
I appreciate all the kind wordsand I felt the same as you about
coach space, but pretty much acoach can help to take you to
the next level.
You name me a successful person,I guarantee they have a coach,
or they have some sort ofmentor, and most of the time
they're investing in it, becauseit is an investment.
I ask people to invest theirtime and their money in me.

(01:31:07):
And in turn, like I think youknow this, I just did a very
expensive, intensive trainingcourse, just that I didn't need
to do, but just to be better,just to stay on the, where I
need to be to be doing this, Iinvested myself.
And in turn, because It's onlyfair.
I ask people to invest in me.
I want to give them the bestexperience possible.
Right.
I often say, too, when you hirea coach, you can't think about

(01:31:29):
it by, oh, this is what theycharge by the hour.
It's like, oh, it's this much anhour.
And you're paying for theresult.
Like, what is it worth for youto finally unshackle yourself
from the drinking habit that'sholding you back in life?
What is it worth to get yourfamily back?
What is it worth to get yourcareer back on track or to take
the big plunge that you havebeen thinking about for years

(01:31:50):
and years and years, right?
Like, what does that worth?
That's what you're actuallypaying for with coaching.
The result.
It's not about the hour.
People say, oh, you charge thisan hour yeah, number one.
I want an investment fromsomebody.
Trust me, if I had a milliondollars in the bank, I'd be
doing this for free all daylong.
But I want somebody to invest inme.
People, when you're invested insomething, you're in.
You want the result.

(01:32:11):
If I did shit for free, peoplewould not turn up.
Or they, it wouldn't be apriority in their life, right?
I've turned down people becauseI didn't feel that they were
maybe somebody was, forcing themto be there or something, right?
I've declined clients before andnot like I've got, not like I'm
in a position to be decliningclients or anything, but I have
said, like, you know, this isn'ta fit right now.

(01:32:31):
Like, I can tell that you'renot, I want you to, we're going
to work together.
We're going to partner on thisshit, right?
That's what it essentially is,is that relationship.
This is the number 1 thing.
So, basically I've beenfacilitating a program for a
long time.
I worked on the downtown eastside as a recovery coach for a
long time for a treatmentcenter, My passion is one on one
or group coaching.

(01:32:52):
I love it.
It fills me up.
I like to think that I'm prettydecent at it.
Like I said, it was my callingto do this work.
So the stuff I have going on, Iquit.
I don't like the word quit.
I left my job at the treatmentcenter, and I'm just going all
in on this right now.
So what this means is I amstarting a men's group.
It's hopefully going to startin, launch in January.
I'm working to make it a spacewhere men will want to be.

(01:33:15):
You know all about the benefitsof the men's group.
I know that.
It's going to be, Part men'sgroup, part group coaching kind
of what I did in thefacilitation role.
But I'm working hard to make ita place people want to go.
People have a image of men'sgroup right or not, but it's
going to be a place where Ithink that a lot of guys are
going to change their lives andwe're going to support each
other, hold each otheraccountable, all these things.

(01:33:36):
Another cool thing that Ihaven't told you yet that I'm
going to launch in November.
I'm going to do a challenge, a30 day challenge for November
for anybody that wants it.
It could be guys, girls,whatever, right?
But I'm really going to try andpush this out there.
30 days, 30 challenges, 30bucks.
I'm doing it in November becauseit's the perfect time, we're
leading into Christmas, we'releading into 2024, like start

(01:33:57):
getting your shit together now.
Commit to something.
So 30 days, I'm not going to saywhat the challenges are, I'm not
going to direct them, it'swhatever you want to do in 30
days to better yourself.
Part of what I say in coaching,as I told you, is how do you be
10 percent better?
Right?
Like, that's where you start.
Be 10 percent better.
If you could do that everymonth, and whatever that means
for you.
So, I'm going to lay out tons ofdifferent things.

(01:34:18):
It could be like, 30 minutes aday reading a personal
development.
It could be like doing amindfulness routine.
It could be journaling.
It could be running.
It could be, there's so manydifferent things, but the whole
point is just fucking challengeyourself for 30 minutes every
day.
And there's going to be like atracker.
You're going to go on there.
I'm going to have a privateFacebook group.
Hopefully people will interacton there, but I'm going to
really push this out.

(01:34:39):
So I want tons of people to dothis.
And I think it's a great way tojust fucking Start getting in
the habits of just that littleincremental change, right?
Committing to something everyday, 30 minutes, do something
that's going to better yourself.
That's something I'm reallyexcited about right now.
So that one, information aboutthat's going to be coming out in
about a week.
Other than that, as you know, Ido recovery coaching.

(01:35:00):
I have a six session programthat I've just framework that
I've just come up with that.
I'm going to people have thatoption if they want to do it
hits on various themes ofrecovery values goal setting all
these sorts of things, but it'smore structured.
I'm going to be doing that andalso 1 on 1 men's coaching.
That is so fucking important.
And I've seen such tremendouschange from guys.

(01:35:23):
I just got a message.
Last night, or the night before,from the wife of a guy I
coached, it's actually, sheposted, it should be on my
Facebook, so I'm not just makingshit up, and she just said like
she reposted one of my videosand just said my husband worked
with Sam, changed his wholelife, and we're so thankful for
what you did for our family andstuff, and I'm just like, fuck,

(01:35:43):
that is why you do it, right?
That makes me so happy to seesomebody change, and that's what
we do in one on one coaching.
To sum it up, I offer, a freecall.
No charge, no pressure.
confidential call.
That's what it is.
We'll just see what's going on,what's going on for you.
If anybody listens to this andthinks that I might be able to
help them in some way, if Icould reach out.
The fear of reaching out kept mestuck for years.

(01:36:04):
I wish that, people don't haveto do that.
I wish that I had have reachedout sooner for help when I was
struggling so badly.
Mental health, addiction,everything.
I did not.
Like I said, I want to be theperson that I needed.
So if I can reach out, if you'restruggling in any way, as a man
with addiction, whatever, evenjust having that free call,
sometimes that's enough to setyou off going.
Right.
I don't pressure.
I'm not a salesman.

(01:36:25):
I'm not a hustler.
You want to work with me or youdon't.
But I know that it's veryeffective.
I know that for a fact and yeah,that's the thing.
So let's get in touch with me.
I love the idea of doingsomething before Christmas.
I'm so sick of those emptyJanuary 1st, new year, new me
bullshit.
I think doing it beforeChristmas will generate
momentum.
Cold plunge in sauna is going tobe on there too in the
suggestions, right?

(01:36:45):
And November is a great time todo that.
Especially if you're on a coastanywhere, you just jump in the
ocean and now it sounds farfetched and people walking on
the sidewalk in their parkas andtheir Canada goose down jackets
might think you're ridiculous,but it's the real deal.
This is a perfect time.
You know, you're starting tocome to the realization how many
New Year's resolutions you didnot accomplish.
You're coming to that stressfultime of Christmas where people

(01:37:06):
spend money, people are busywith Christmas parties.
And then there's that wholething of in January, yeah, you
want to start all these NewYear's resolutions, but then the
end of January, the fuckingcredit card bill comes out for
all the spending that you didand all the new iPhones you
bought and all the gifts youbought.
And then you start getting downon yourself.
And then the tax bill comes theend of February and.
There's all these reasons whyyour year won't start off great,

(01:37:26):
but if you can make measurableimprovements in your life before
Christmas and have thatmomentum, you will go into the
new year and that holidayseason.
And you might even get commentsfrom your family members that
you see over Christmas.
They might say, man, I haven'tseen you in a while, or I've
seen you doing pushups everyday, or what's this you jumping
in the ocean thing all about.
And it generates conversation,generates awareness.

(01:37:47):
And you become a storytellerthrough even a short amount of
experience, but you become thatperson that can tell that story
of growth and of awareness.
And whether they use you as acoach or they use extremely
conscious or they come on mypodcast or they discover Jocko
Willink or it doesn't matterwho, it's just that idea of
getting better in all facets andwhatever modality you choose.

(01:38:08):
But I love the flexibility of itas well.
You allowing people to choose,giving them a predetermined list
to kind of get the creativejuices going, but maybe they
stray off that list a littlebit.
Maybe it's 30 minutes of breathwork a day for anybody who
hasn't done that modality where,you know, it's on the list.
Or maybe it's doing 30 minuteyoga every day or stretching

(01:38:29):
because you have an injury andyou want to start your own
recovery and not listen to whatmodern medicine tells you.
There's so many different,there's so many different
facets, right?
I've even got on the list oflike use your company benefits.
It's November.
When was the last time you wentfor a massage or an acupuncture?
Yeah.
Like use that shit, right?
Like, and that's part of someonedoes that as their challenge for
the day.

(01:38:49):
And I just think 30 bucks, it'sthe price of a fucking case of
beer.
Like to have something to do forthe month that is, it's all in
the service of betteringyourself little bits at a time,
right?
Little increments, 10 percentbetter, get on base.
Don't swing for the home run.
You're just getting on base.
Right.
And you're going to meet othercrazy motherfuckers that, you
know, if you're questioning, ifyou're going to be looked at

(01:39:10):
weird, And kind of be looked atas on an island of misfit toys,
sort of speak, there's otherpeople, there's other toys on
that island, man, you're goingto meet other people that maybe
they have a podcast one day.
Exactly.
I think we're from the island ofmisfit toys, actually, but yeah,
yeah, I'm pretty sure we've madepermanent residents there.

(01:39:31):
Oh, I love that, dude.
I love that challenge.
I can't wait to see moredetails.
I'm going to push it hard.
I think I wanted a lot of peopleto do it, man.
I think I'm going to push itpretty hard.
So you got a fan here, man.
I love what you're doing.
I think this is going to alsogive momentum to you yourself to
realize that there's a demand.
For your coaching, yourstylistic nature, your lived
experience, this is going togive people a taste of Zan and

(01:39:54):
what you have to bring to thetable.
I've been very fortunate to beenimmersed in your presence pretty
regularly and I am superthankful for that experience.
And you've opened my eyes to thepossibility, even something as
simple as, you know, I'm youngerthan you were when you got
sober, let alone started workingout.
I played a paintball tournamentlast weekend and jacked up my
knee and I'm just like, fuck,this thing isn't gonna heal

(01:40:16):
because I'm old as shit.
And then I see Zan runningultramarathons.
The eight year future version ofAlfred.
I'm like, man, shut the fuck up.
I'll forget it.
Get off the thing, put some iceon the knee and get after it.
Oh, I love it, man.
Well, I listen, I appreciate youtoo, man.
I'm so glad that we'vereconnected and I'm a fan of
yours too.
I'm a big fan of this podcast.

(01:40:37):
I'm a big fan of your mission ofwhat you're trying to do with
it.
Real quick, I want you to letpeople know, where can they find
you?
What are all the socials youhave?
What are the websites?
Where can people find Zan?
Well, my website is gallantcoaching.
com.
I hate that there's a dash inthere, but Gallant Coaching was
taken.
Somebody that's not using it.
So Gallant coaching tons of infoon there.
Other podcasts I've been on oron there.

(01:40:58):
That sailboat thing that I wastalking to you about explains
it's got a visual on it rightthere.
So that might be interesting tosome people.
Instagram, I'm mainly onInstagram, just gallant coaching
on there.
LinkedIn, you can find me,although I'm not on there.
I do have a Facebook, butFacebook doesn't, the algorithm
or the engagement just isn'tthere on it.
I don't know if people see stuffas much, but Instagram.

(01:41:18):
I'm very fortunate to besupported by lots of friends and
supporters.
And I'm grateful every day forthat.
I'm grateful for all my friendsin this world.
I'm grateful for you and beingon the podcast today.
And just, that's it.
To close it off, man, we didn'tget into this, but people often
ask me the secret of recovery.
The secret of recovery startswith gratitude, man.
In my...
Humble opinion in your livedexperienced opinion, just so

(01:41:42):
we're clear.
Cause that is the real deal.
That is the real deal.
And I think that's not justrecovery.
That's anything in life.
You have gratitude for anything.
If you can, we spoke about thisbefore the podcast, but
reframing, I hope people gotsome value.
I hope people join thatchallenge.
I absolutely love it.
And I can't wait to see whatcomes next for the revamp of
your one on one coaching foryour brand.
You got a fan for life, man.

(01:42:03):
So I truly appreciate you.
So.
That feeling is mutual, brother.
I appreciate you as well.
I'm very happy to be here and wewill be in touch.
I think this is, I don't thinkthis is the last conversation,
whether it's in a podcastcapacity or we're working
together somehow in some way,man, I, there's a lot of
alignment between you and I, andI'm very grateful for that.
I appreciate it, man.
Well, for those for listening,thank you so much for sticking
around.

(01:42:23):
I know this was a long one.
Hope you got some value.
And go check out Zan, check outhis stuff.
I will leave links in all mydescriptions and everything.
So you guys will see tons ofcontent.
But till next time, have a goodone, guys.
Thank you, brother.
Well, that's it for thisepisode.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unmodern podcast.
If you like what you heard andwant to hear more, don't forget

(01:42:46):
to hit that subscribe buttonalso like, and follow me on
Instagram and Facebook atunmodern podcast.
Do you have suggestions forfuture guests, or if you're
interested in being a guestyourself, please visit unmodern
podcast.
com.
Thank you again, and we'll seeyou in the next episode.

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