February 3, 2025 • 29 mins
Explore the transformative role of questioning in effective leadership as Ron Harvey engages Sean Grace in a thought-provoking conversation about leadership development, self-care, and rebuilding trust. The episode weaves together essential insights for leaders aiming to adapt to the complexities of a multi-generational workforce and redefine leadership in the modern era.
• Emphasizes the need for leadership development from a young age
• Discusses the evolution of leadership styles over generations
• Highlights the importance of creativity and innovation in leadership
• Recognizes the challenges of managing a diverse workforce
• Stresses the necessity of self-care for leaders
• Explains the transition to new roles and confronting self-doubt
• Offers strategies for rebuilding trust with teams
• Introduces Sean's book, "The Art of the Question," focusing on leadership through inquiry
Remember to check out Sean's book and reach out for more enriching discussions on leadership!
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
Learn more about Global Core Strategies
.
.
.
.
.
Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host
leadership consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron's delighted to have youjoin us as he unpacks and shares
his leadership experience,designed to help you in your
leadership journey.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
(00:21):
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, good morning.
This is Ron Harvey, vicePresident and Chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting.
I'm coming to you again withanother episode of Unpack with
Ron Harvey.
Our company is all aboutleadership helping leaders be
better connected to the peoplethat help them be successful
Quite honestly, just havinghealthy relationships between
leaders in their organizationand the people that are getting
things done.
But we pause every single weekand we release another episode
(00:51):
of Unpacked with Ron Harvey,where we invite guests from
around the world to really talkabout leadership and growth and
experiences and things that noquestions in advance for them.
We have real conversations.
So we don't know where we'regoing to go and what we're going
to talk about, except for onething we're going to talk
leadership somewhere in thispodcast and we're going to share
some best practices with youand we're going to be really
transparent.
So we let you behind thecurtain.
(01:11):
So I'm excited to have a newguest on with us, sean, who runs
his own organization, graceMedia Works.
I will pause, as I always do,and let our guests introduce
themselves, because I find itrobbery introduce themselves,
because I find that robbery whoknows them better than them.
So I'm going to pause.
Let Sean share who he is andwhat he does, and then we'll
dive into the question.
So, sean, thank you, and themicrophone is yours.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
All right.
Well, thank you, ron, forhaving me on your program.
I really appreciate it, Excitedto be here.
As you so eloquently alreadystated, I'm Sean Grace and I'm
the founder of actually a coupleof consultancies.
One is Grace Media Works andthe other one, more recently, is
called Peak Luma.
Peak Luma is specifically aboutleadership development and it's
(01:54):
about training.
So, whereas Grace Media Worksincludes also multimedia
production work and other thingson the production side.
So between the two of them, ourmission is to try to elevate
leadership across allorganizations, whoever wants to
tap into the things that we haveto say and the learnings that
we produce, especially throughour workshops.
(02:16):
And I'm here also to talk abouta brand new book that I have
out called the Art of theQuestion a guide for seekers,
dreamers, problem solvers andleaders.
So it's recently out and itfocuses on how questions play
such a central role inleadership, in problem solving,
(02:39):
in creative thinking, ininterpersonal communication, in
conflict resolution and prettymuch all other aspects of
communication and leading others.
So I'm anxious to talk aboutthe book and any other
leadership topics that you thinkwould make sense for your
listenership and viewership.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, sean, thank you so much.
As I looked at you, you put thebook up and went to look at
that, sean, thank you so much.
As I looked at you, you put thebook up and went to look at
that.
You have a new book out.
How important now with AI, thisprompt engineering, which is a
career now, of how valuable andimportant it is to be really
really good at your questions.
I mean because AI is driven byquestions.
So thank you and we'll dive intothe book.
(03:21):
Thank you for sharing and forthose of you that are watching
our guests, come on and sharethings with you.
They show you books.
So I tell you to support youknow, and we'll talk about how
to find the book and where youget it at and support you know
we're entrepreneurs, we arebusiness owners, but we're also
community advocates and we careabout the work that we do.
So we always want to offer ourservices to you, not to sell out
to us.
Have a conversation with eitherone of us at any time so you
(03:44):
can be successful in what you'retrying to do and we can be
successful in what we're tryingto do.
So, sean, as we dive into thework you've been in the space.
I mean, like I said, you'redoing two different
organizations.
You know, one multimedia butthe other around leadership.
When you think of where we aretoday as a society across the
board, how important is it forus now to really develop great
(04:06):
leaders from ground level up,whether you're talking in middle
school or you're talking inhigh school or you're talking in
collegiate level.
How important is it for us topay closer attention?
How do we develop effectiveleaders, regardless of what
industry they go in?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Good question.
Well, I address some of this inthe book regarding the change
in demands on the leadershiplevel over generations, where
the more sort of industrialstyle of leadership was command
and control, where yourmanagement style was based on
your knowledge level and yourdirect experience and your
ability to solve problems.
(04:42):
And that all is still true.
However, what's changed overthe recent years is as we've
moved away from the moreindustrial style of economy and
manufacturing that really builtmuch of this country.
We've moved into a morecreative style of leadership,
management and overallproduction.
(05:04):
So your average company is notnecessarily looking for leaders
who have stacks of knowledge tohand out, like maybe 20 or 30
years ago may have been thevalue proposition of a good
manager and a good leader,whereas now organizations need
leaders as well as teams who areable to think more creatively
(05:26):
about how to solve problems andhow to innovate.
So innovation is a primarydriver now for leadership,
whereas in the past, innovationwas secondary to controlling and
commanding large teams ofpeople who were doing a lot of
repetitive work.
So, as the service economykicked in 20 or 25 years ago and
(05:48):
certainly the tech industry hasdriven much of that you have a
new generation of leaders whoare desperate for the skills to
be able to tease out creativeproblem solving from their team.
And in all my experience as aleadership development trainer
as well as a leader myself, I'velearned that those leaders who
(06:10):
succeed best these days are theones who are able to ask better
questions of the people whoreport to them and the teams
that they manage.
So, whereas in the past, yourteam may approach you as a
manager and present a problemand you may dole out some
possible solutions to thatproblem or maybe a definitive
(06:30):
solution to that problem fortheir teams to be more
self-reflective and to be bettercritical thinkers and to be
able to think creatively andcollaboratively in order to
think more innovatively andoutside the box.
(06:52):
So that's where I think the bigdistinction is, in the
leadership shift over the pastcertainly the past 10 years, but
if not the past 15 or 20, wherethere's been an evolution in
change in the type of skill setthat your typical manager and
leader needs in order to besuccessful, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes, John, when you think about leaders today in
your experience, it can bepretty.
I mean, you've got fivegenerations in the workforce.
You want to work from home orhigh work, or you're in the
office one day or two days outof the week.
Trust is at an all-time low forpeople trusting organizations
or leaders.
How do you get away from thecommand and control when your
career is on the line and you'rethe person that I'm going to
come talk to about your job?
(07:36):
If it doesn't get done, how doleaders make that transition?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Because you're still held accountable but leadership
is changing right in front of us.
It almost feels as though theemployees run the organization.
I think it's a little more of abottom-up kind of ecosystem
versus a top-down.
So, although the leader and themanager is still ultimately
responsible for the results,it's the coordination and
effectiveness of the team whowill essentially drive those
(08:02):
results, and the leader doesn'tneed to necessarily be in the
position where they are solvingthose problems directly, but
they are directing teams to bemore creative in how they do
that.
Now, if, in the end, they'renot getting the results they
want, well, it's still on theleader to be able to adjust and
change their methodologies inorder to produce a more
(08:25):
effective team.
So there is more, I think, ofan organic feedback loop that
happens now between thefrontline teams and senior
management.
So you have, I think, much moreof a fluid communication loop
that's needed now, where thereisn't necessarily that strong
hierarchy where the leaderstands alone, has to present
(08:48):
results and says well, it's allme and it's on me, and to a
certain degree it is because thebuck stops with the leader of
the team.
However, there is less of amystery, I believe, between at
least ideally, between what'shappening with the frontline
teams and senior management.
So I think that there's more ofa cooperative communication
(09:10):
cycle happening At least that'swhat I see in the more effective
organizations and the hierarchyis less linear than it used to
be less vertical and less linear, so you have more of these
horizontal structures beingcreated.
There's more sharedresponsibility.
There's more of an opencommunication line.
Again, ideally, there areorganizations that continue to
(09:38):
struggle with that change, butthose who have been able to
figure that out have a morecohesive communication
organization between leadership,frontline teams and that
feedback loop.
So, although, at the end of theday, it's still the leader's
responsibility to drive results,there is, I think, more data,
more information and morecommunication between the
systems and the people in orderto make better decisions going
(10:00):
forward.
So you may still be holding thebag in the end if your results
aren't what they're supposed tobe, but you have many more
options.
I believe in being able totease out how to correct that,
how to fix that and how toimprove the process in order to
improve results.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
What advice would you give our listeners today that
find themselves as a youngerleader with a more mature
workforce and not have animposter syndrome as they're
leading that organization?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, that's another good question there, with the
multi-generational dividebetween workforces right?
So you do have young managersand you more conscious and
conscientious of communicationstyles as an example, cultural
(10:49):
and subcultural differenceswithin generational breaks right
?
So you have baby boomers whohave skill sets that have
strengths and have weaknesses,all the way up to Gen Z, where
you also have strengths and haveweaknesses.
All the way up to Gen Z, whereyou also have strengths and
weaknesses.
So you have priority changes.
(11:10):
So if you're leading a team withseveral baby boomers as well as
several young Gen Zers, yourcommunication style needs to be
sensitive to the language theyuse, the tropes they may use, as
well as the cultural memes andnorms that they might be more
(11:31):
used to.
So, yeah, I think it's necessaryfor today's leaders to be much
more flexible and much moreaware and sensitive to how best
to bring out the best in all ofthese skill sets, because there
are strengths that the boomergeneration will bring to a team
that a Gen Z just doesn't haveand, vice versa, that Gen Z will
(11:56):
bring a perspective that theGen Z doesn't have.
So, the leader, it's incumbentupon good leaders to be able to
pull out the best from eachfigure out where the common
grounds are when it comes tocommunicating with all of them
at the same time, and constantlyfiguring out ways to figure out
where the common ground isbetween the generations and
figuring out where the strengthsare in order to really leverage
(12:20):
those strengths, whether it'sloyalty in one generation versus
privacy in another generation,whether it's open communication
or whether it's more closedcommunication.
So I think the more aware youare of the differences
generationally, you're going tobe in a much better position to
(12:40):
manage, lead, empower andinspire your teams, and I think
you'd be lucky if you had a widevariety of generational
differences across your team,because it brings a huge variety
of skill sets, perspectives andwisdom that you may not have
(13:01):
with a less diverse generationalteam.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I'm glad that you hit on all the points.
As for effective leader and soI know you have the book and you
think about the question I wantto unpack it for a second
self-care as a leader.
You find that leaders tend toall in run the count on both
ends and sometimes in the middle.
It's just we work reallyextremely hard because we are
left holding the bag and thereare some expectations, and
(13:23):
usually you'll take very goodcare of everyone else except you
.
What advice would you sharewith our listening audience?
How important it is for you asa leader, to intentionally
practice self-care?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Chapter three in my book is called Know Thyself, and
it's focused on ways in whichto elevate your self-awareness
and all of what we callmetacognitive skills, and these
are the skills regarding knowinghow best we learn, knowing how
best we gain knowledge, knowinghow best we react emotionally to
(13:53):
scenarios.
So this metacognitive skill set, which is essentially a type of
self-awareness, the more you'rein touch with your own self.
We all operate differently anduniquely, thank goodness, in the
world, and we all have ourstrengths and our weaknesses and
those things that we want toboost and those things that we
(14:15):
want to maybe try to keep inmore control.
So the more you are aware ofthat as a leader, the more
sensitive you're going to be toyour own needs, as well as your
own shortcomings and thosethings that might trigger you
and maybe put you in a lessproductive state emotionally or
even thought wise.
So I spend the chapter talkingabout methods.
(14:39):
A lot of it is throughself-questioning on how to
elevate your sense of yourselfin order to not just know
yourself, but to also take careof yourself more intentionally,
so you're in a better positionto inspire and lead others.
There's no better example ofleadership than to walk the talk
(15:00):
and to be the person that youare hoping to instill with the
team that you lead.
So if they look to you and theysee a discombobulated and
emotionally unraveling personwho has difficult time managing
their own thought processes andtheir own emotional states, the
(15:22):
less they're going to be likelyto trust and turn to you and
look to you as an example ofleadership.
However, the better leaders whoare much more self-aware, take
care of themselves, know theirlimits and are humble enough to
recognize the areas where theymay need improvement, and in
that process, they're constantlythinking about how to be better
(15:45):
, how to be more stable, how tobe more consistent, and I think
that's all part of that takingcare of oneself and being in a
position to properly inspire andlead others.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yes, yes, there are a couple of questions that I want
to unpack.
I mean really, really greatinformation.
What's coming up as I listen toyou speak?
You use the word how to bebetter.
Let's say you and I.
You know we're in leadershipand we're the best of the best.
Everybody knows our name.
We're very dependable, we'revery competent and consciously
competent.
We know we're good and then weget promoted to this role.
We know about 30% of it, butwe'll fake it till we make it or
(16:22):
break it.
How do leaders that go fromthis high level of being
consciously competent to all ofa sudden get promoted to
something that they're not thebest at it to embrace?
Now they're consciouslyincompetent in what's expected
of them and they want to revertback to doing what they used to.
How do you help that leadermake that transition from coming
to this really, really good tomediocre, average and almost not
(16:43):
really good at it, and I needto learn it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, well, the way I look at that, I see personal
growth very much dependent ontrying to stay out of your
comfort zones.
And you know, one can certainlyget very familiar with a set of
(17:22):
processes, an ecosystem, a setof data, whatever it is that
you're grow are the ones thatthen push themselves out of that
and challenge themselves in anew opportunity.
That puts them kind of far downthe ladder from sort of the
four levels of how we attainknowledge.
Right, so you start with beingunconsciously incompetent.
You don't know what it is youdon't know.
You then move into theconsciously incompetent, where
you start to realize the thingsyou don't know.
Then you become more competentand now you're consciously
(17:43):
competent so you're able to dothings, but you're constantly
thinking about doing them, sothey're not a second nature
quite yet, until you elevateyourself to the unconsciously
competent level where thecompetence is such a part of you
that it's no longer somethingthat you need to think a lot
about.
But that ascension in knowledge, understanding and competence
(18:06):
takes time, depending on whereyou are.
I'm a musician.
I spend a lot of times learningnew instruments, and every time
I pick up a new instrumentthat's unfamiliar to me, it is a
humbling experience, becauseI'm an expert with some
instruments and I force myselfto try something that will make
me look foolish.
But that process forces me toreset and to take a step back
(18:33):
and gain new perspective on howto learn this new competent
thing.
And as I move through that, Igain all kinds of additional
wisdom, additional competence,outside of even the specific
task I'm given.
However, if I just stayed withthe one instrument that I'm
quite good at and just continueto refine that and that's
perfectly fine, right, butthat's not me.
(18:55):
I always want to step out andsay, hey, let me challenge
myself, because while Ichallenge myself, I'm going to
hopefully increase my ability tounderstand the world better.
Maybe understanding andlearning this one thing will
give me a unique perspectiveback on the other thing that I
think I'm pretty good at.
And in every one of those cases,I've learned much more in the
(19:17):
process than just kind ofsitting back and saying, no, I'm
just going to stick with what Iknow and stay at the position
that I am because I'm quitecompetent.
I get compensated for it.
X, y, z.
But if you are ambitious and ifyou want to continually grow
and if you feel you have agrowth mindset.
(19:37):
Well, that kind of requiresstepping out and getting
uncomfortable and getting to aposition where you may look
quite incompetent, but if youhave the inner strength and the
inner self-awareness and themindfulness, you're able to rise
above that and see that.
Well, this is great, becausethis is a process for me to now
(20:01):
sort of tackle this new thing,learn how to get it done and
gain all kinds of additionalskills along the way.
So it takes courage and somebravery.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, if you're listening, I mean, sean walked
through all of it.
You know, really, really greatand phenomenal.
So, as you're going throughthose phases, seeking it out, I
love that you said seek it out,go forward, continue to learn.
Sean, we're at an all-time lowwith trust for a variety of
reasons across our society.
How do I, as a leader, rebuildtrust if I broke it with my team
?
You broke it.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah Well, trust is a very hard thing to gain and
it's a very easy thing to lose,and it's very difficult to
regain it once you've lost it.
However, it certainly doesn'tmean you can't regain it.
You can.
It requires a certain level.
Going back to the concept ofself-awareness and humility,
there's this idea that thenlisten, if your ego is so big
(20:55):
that you're not going to be ableto handle that, that's
something you need to look at tosay, okay, where is the fear
here?
In learning this new thing ordoing this new thing, you have
to prove that you are in aposition that you can rebuild.
You have to be, you know,humble enough to be able to say,
first of all, admit that, hey,I screwed up here.
(21:16):
Hey, I made a decision thatbroke some trust.
I see how that happened.
I acknowledge that, and this issomething I'm going to learn
from, and I'm hoping that you'reable to continue giving me
feedback as I move forward,because, you know, leadership is
a two-way street.
You need followers to agree tofollow a leader right.
(21:37):
A leader isn't just a leaderbecause they've got a title and
they've made the decision thatthey're leading.
A leader is defined by the teamthat they're leading.
So if you have followers whohave lost trust in your
leadership, you're no longerthan their leader, at least not
effectively, right?
So the two-way street conceptis that the relationship that
(21:59):
you have with your team, itneeds to be constantly
reinforced from a standpoint oftrust, because it's they who
will define and determine yourleadership and it comes from you
, obviously, because it's areflection that's constantly
happening.
So that's why it's important,as a leader, not to think
singularly as a leader, of beinga director, a leader as purely
(22:23):
a manager.
There has to be an organic backand forth going on.
There has to be an agreementbetween the teams who are
essentially following.
They have to agree that, yes,this leadership followership
dynamic works well.
So if you can establish that,which requires a tremendous
(22:44):
amount of trust also on yourteams, right, so you need to
give them trust.
You need to give them theability to speak their mind,
speak their piece, have acertain level of safety around
that.
So someone speaking out about adecision that you made isn't
condemned or they aren't somehowpunished indirectly or directly
(23:05):
.
So I think that relationship,if you lost that, then the first
thing is to reestablish that.
But, as I say, building trustis really hard, losing it is
really easy, but building itback, I think, requires those
realizations that it is atwo-way street, that there has
to be agreement on both sidesand there has to be a level of
(23:26):
giving right.
So you have to be able to giveto your people to a large degree
in order for them to feel thatthey can once again establish
that trust.
So it takes time and you wantto ask your team how can I help
rebuild this trust with you?
What can I do to prove thatwe're all together in this and
I'm not in one direction and youguys are in another direction?
(23:49):
So the questioning process isvery self-reflective and very
important in that process ofrebuilding trust.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Phenomenal.
I mean because I think peoplethink that you know when it
happens they make excuses reallyquick, versus I love to say,
hey, you just got to own it, yougot to come clean, you got to
swallow your pride or your egoor whatever that thing is that's
getting in the way of you, andpeople will be forgiven if you
behave in a different way andallow them to know that you own
it.
And they see it and they'rehuman too.
So, thank you, you walkedthrough it really, really well
(24:19):
for the audience to listen to it.
If you find yourself in thatsituation, it's difficult, but
it's not impossible to rebuildtrust and you got to put the
work in.
So, sean, you have a book out.
Do you want to share anythingabout the book?
And then, where do we find it,the book?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
is the Art of the Question, a guide for seekers,
dreamers, problem solvers andleaders, and the slug at the top
is Better Decisions, deeperConnections and Breakthrough
Ideas.
It's 300 pages and it's 13chapters actually 14 chapters
and it's broken up into threesections.
(24:54):
The first is about reallyourselves and how we understand
knowledge, how we acquireknowledge, how we know about
ourselves.
So it's more of sort of aconstruct of what is real, what
isn't real, how do we go aboutusing questions just to
understand basic things?
The second part is aboutinterpersonal relationships.
(25:14):
Starts with the most vitalskill, which is listening.
So we go through listening, wego through conflict resolution,
we go through techniques in whatwe call reflective inquiry,
which is whether you're a leadermanaging a team, or whether
you're a partner and you're in adiscussion with a loved one,
and there's ways in which to bea more effective listener and a
(25:35):
better question asker when itcomes to interpersonal
communication.
The third and final section ofthe book is about innovation and
creative thinking.
So I take case studies and breakapart different ideas on how to
use questions to create morecollaboration between teams, how
to use questions to think moreinnovatively, how to use
(25:58):
questions in brainstorming andideation, design thinking and
things like that.
So the book overall usesquestions as the primary
catalyst for all of these typesof ideas and concepts.
But it all starts with knowingthyself, then bringing that over
to how we communicate withother humans.
As well as a little bit of partone is also critical thinking
(26:22):
and how we solve problems notnecessarily communicate and then
the third would be a little bitof the problem solving, but on
the creative ideation front.
So overall it covers all thosebases with lots and lots of
methods and ideas and systemsand techniques on how to use
questions as a leader, as acreative problem solver and as a
(26:45):
caring, productive human beingin a relationship.
So it covers a lot of ground.
It's available on Amazoncurrently, maybe available in
more sources soon, but right nowit's available on amazoncom
under my name, sean Grace.
The art of the question.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yes, yes, thank you for sharing where you can find
the book and walking through thedifferent parts and components
of the book, which I think ishuge.
As we started off with thepodcast, questions are becoming
more relevant for us to getthings done.
What's the best way ifsomeone's interested and want to
bring you on a podcast or wantsto talk more about the services
that you offer?
What's the best way for peopleto get in touch with you?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, the best way for people to get in touch with
you yeah, the best way to reachme is through my website, peak
Luma P-E-A-K-L-U-M-A.
Peak Luma is rather a new brandfor us here and it focuses
specifically on leadershipdevelopment and consulting,
executive leadership, et cetera,and the idea is it's about
(27:44):
elevation and it's about lightand enlightenment.
So there's your peak andthere's your luma.
So it's essentially sort of howwe do what we do in order to
bring out the best in you, toelevate your leadership skills
to your highest peaks while atthe same time having you shine
brighter and also enlighten youand the people you work with on
(28:07):
how to be more productive andeffective in all the things that
you do.
So that's peaklumacom, and youcould reach me through the
contact page there on the site.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for everyone that'slistening.
Reach out, the book isavailable for you.
Go to the site and you'll beable to reach out to Sean if you
have more questions aboutsomething he may have said or
what we discussed, or anopportunity for you to invite
him in if your team is lookingfor an opportunity to grow or
get better at whatever that isthat you need to get better at.
Thank you for being a guest andfor all of our guests, thank
you for hanging with us as wewalk through some practical
things.
(28:50):
No-transcript.
What I will tell you is keepgrowing, keep being curious,
never, ever, stop learning.
The world is changing fast,right around you, so don't get
stuck and frustrated.
Just retool, reskill, ask a lotof questions and get better.
The world is expecting us toget better as leaders.
The question I always askpeople is are you good enough to
be the leader of the peoplethat you're leading?
If not, get better so that waythey're well taken care of.
(29:13):
So until next time, sean and Iwill sign off and tell you thank
you for joining us andhopefully you tell a friend or
you share the link and youcontinue to follow us on.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron unpacks sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
matter.
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host
leadership consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron's delighted to have youjoin us as he unpacks and shares
his leadership experience,designed to help you in your
leadership journey.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
(00:21):
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, good morning.
This is Ron Harvey, vicePresident and Chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting.
I'm coming to you again withanother episode of Unpack with
Ron Harvey.
Our company is all aboutleadership helping leaders be
better connected to the peoplethat help them be successful
Quite honestly, just havinghealthy relationships between
leaders in their organizationand the people that are getting
things done.
But we pause every single weekand we release another episode
(00:51):
of Unpacked with Ron Harvey,where we invite guests from
around the world to really talkabout leadership and growth and
experiences and things that noquestions in advance for them.
We have real conversations.
So we don't know where we'regoing to go and what we're going
to talk about, except for onething we're going to talk
leadership somewhere in thispodcast and we're going to share
some best practices with youand we're going to be really
transparent.
So we let you behind thecurtain.
(01:11):
So I'm excited to have a newguest on with us, sean, who runs
his own organization, graceMedia Works.
I will pause, as I always do,and let our guests introduce
themselves, because I find itrobbery introduce themselves,
because I find that robbery whoknows them better than them.
So I'm going to pause.
Let Sean share who he is andwhat he does, and then we'll
dive into the question.
So, sean, thank you, and themicrophone is yours.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
All right.
Well, thank you, ron, forhaving me on your program.
I really appreciate it, Excitedto be here.
As you so eloquently alreadystated, I'm Sean Grace and I'm
the founder of actually a coupleof consultancies.
One is Grace Media Works andthe other one, more recently, is
called Peak Luma.
Peak Luma is specifically aboutleadership development and it's
(01:54):
about training.
So, whereas Grace Media Worksincludes also multimedia
production work and other thingson the production side.
So between the two of them, ourmission is to try to elevate
leadership across allorganizations, whoever wants to
tap into the things that we haveto say and the learnings that
we produce, especially throughour workshops.
(02:16):
And I'm here also to talk abouta brand new book that I have
out called the Art of theQuestion a guide for seekers,
dreamers, problem solvers andleaders.
So it's recently out and itfocuses on how questions play
such a central role inleadership, in problem solving,
(02:39):
in creative thinking, ininterpersonal communication, in
conflict resolution and prettymuch all other aspects of
communication and leading others.
So I'm anxious to talk aboutthe book and any other
leadership topics that you thinkwould make sense for your
listenership and viewership.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, sean, thank you so much.
As I looked at you, you put thebook up and went to look at
that, sean, thank you so much.
As I looked at you, you put thebook up and went to look at
that.
You have a new book out.
How important now with AI, thisprompt engineering, which is a
career now, of how valuable andimportant it is to be really
really good at your questions.
I mean because AI is driven byquestions.
So thank you and we'll dive intothe book.
(03:21):
Thank you for sharing and forthose of you that are watching
our guests, come on and sharethings with you.
They show you books.
So I tell you to support youknow, and we'll talk about how
to find the book and where youget it at and support you know
we're entrepreneurs, we arebusiness owners, but we're also
community advocates and we careabout the work that we do.
So we always want to offer ourservices to you, not to sell out
to us.
Have a conversation with eitherone of us at any time so you
(03:44):
can be successful in what you'retrying to do and we can be
successful in what we're tryingto do.
So, sean, as we dive into thework you've been in the space.
I mean, like I said, you'redoing two different
organizations.
You know, one multimedia butthe other around leadership.
When you think of where we aretoday as a society across the
board, how important is it forus now to really develop great
(04:06):
leaders from ground level up,whether you're talking in middle
school or you're talking inhigh school or you're talking in
collegiate level.
How important is it for us topay closer attention?
How do we develop effectiveleaders, regardless of what
industry they go in?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Good question.
Well, I address some of this inthe book regarding the change
in demands on the leadershiplevel over generations, where
the more sort of industrialstyle of leadership was command
and control, where yourmanagement style was based on
your knowledge level and yourdirect experience and your
ability to solve problems.
(04:42):
And that all is still true.
However, what's changed overthe recent years is as we've
moved away from the moreindustrial style of economy and
manufacturing that really builtmuch of this country.
We've moved into a morecreative style of leadership,
management and overallproduction.
(05:04):
So your average company is notnecessarily looking for leaders
who have stacks of knowledge tohand out, like maybe 20 or 30
years ago may have been thevalue proposition of a good
manager and a good leader,whereas now organizations need
leaders as well as teams who areable to think more creatively
(05:26):
about how to solve problems andhow to innovate.
So innovation is a primarydriver now for leadership,
whereas in the past, innovationwas secondary to controlling and
commanding large teams ofpeople who were doing a lot of
repetitive work.
So, as the service economykicked in 20 or 25 years ago and
(05:48):
certainly the tech industry hasdriven much of that you have a
new generation of leaders whoare desperate for the skills to
be able to tease out creativeproblem solving from their team.
And in all my experience as aleadership development trainer
as well as a leader myself, I'velearned that those leaders who
(06:10):
succeed best these days are theones who are able to ask better
questions of the people whoreport to them and the teams
that they manage.
So, whereas in the past, yourteam may approach you as a
manager and present a problemand you may dole out some
possible solutions to thatproblem or maybe a definitive
(06:30):
solution to that problem fortheir teams to be more
self-reflective and to be bettercritical thinkers and to be
able to think creatively andcollaboratively in order to
think more innovatively andoutside the box.
(06:52):
So that's where I think the bigdistinction is, in the
leadership shift over the pastcertainly the past 10 years, but
if not the past 15 or 20, wherethere's been an evolution in
change in the type of skill setthat your typical manager and
leader needs in order to besuccessful, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes, John, when you think about leaders today in
your experience, it can bepretty.
I mean, you've got fivegenerations in the workforce.
You want to work from home orhigh work, or you're in the
office one day or two days outof the week.
Trust is at an all-time low forpeople trusting organizations
or leaders.
How do you get away from thecommand and control when your
career is on the line and you'rethe person that I'm going to
come talk to about your job?
(07:36):
If it doesn't get done, how doleaders make that transition?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Because you're still held accountable but leadership
is changing right in front of us.
It almost feels as though theemployees run the organization.
I think it's a little more of abottom-up kind of ecosystem
versus a top-down.
So, although the leader and themanager is still ultimately
responsible for the results,it's the coordination and
effectiveness of the team whowill essentially drive those
(08:02):
results, and the leader doesn'tneed to necessarily be in the
position where they are solvingthose problems directly, but
they are directing teams to bemore creative in how they do
that.
Now, if, in the end, they'renot getting the results they
want, well, it's still on theleader to be able to adjust and
change their methodologies inorder to produce a more
(08:25):
effective team.
So there is more, I think, ofan organic feedback loop that
happens now between thefrontline teams and senior
management.
So you have, I think, much moreof a fluid communication loop
that's needed now, where thereisn't necessarily that strong
hierarchy where the leaderstands alone, has to present
(08:48):
results and says well, it's allme and it's on me, and to a
certain degree it is because thebuck stops with the leader of
the team.
However, there is less of amystery, I believe, between at
least ideally, between what'shappening with the frontline
teams and senior management.
So I think that there's more ofa cooperative communication
(09:10):
cycle happening At least that'swhat I see in the more effective
organizations and the hierarchyis less linear than it used to
be less vertical and less linear, so you have more of these
horizontal structures beingcreated.
There's more sharedresponsibility.
There's more of an opencommunication line.
Again, ideally, there areorganizations that continue to
(09:38):
struggle with that change, butthose who have been able to
figure that out have a morecohesive communication
organization between leadership,frontline teams and that
feedback loop.
So, although, at the end of theday, it's still the leader's
responsibility to drive results,there is, I think, more data,
more information and morecommunication between the
systems and the people in orderto make better decisions going
(10:00):
forward.
So you may still be holding thebag in the end if your results
aren't what they're supposed tobe, but you have many more
options.
I believe in being able totease out how to correct that,
how to fix that and how toimprove the process in order to
improve results.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
What advice would you give our listeners today that
find themselves as a youngerleader with a more mature
workforce and not have animposter syndrome as they're
leading that organization?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, that's another good question there, with the
multi-generational dividebetween workforces right?
So you do have young managersand you more conscious and
conscientious of communicationstyles as an example, cultural
(10:49):
and subcultural differenceswithin generational breaks right
?
So you have baby boomers whohave skill sets that have
strengths and have weaknesses,all the way up to Gen Z, where
you also have strengths and haveweaknesses.
All the way up to Gen Z, whereyou also have strengths and
weaknesses.
So you have priority changes.
(11:10):
So if you're leading a team withseveral baby boomers as well as
several young Gen Zers, yourcommunication style needs to be
sensitive to the language theyuse, the tropes they may use, as
well as the cultural memes andnorms that they might be more
(11:31):
used to.
So, yeah, I think it's necessaryfor today's leaders to be much
more flexible and much moreaware and sensitive to how best
to bring out the best in all ofthese skill sets, because there
are strengths that the boomergeneration will bring to a team
that a Gen Z just doesn't haveand, vice versa, that Gen Z will
(11:56):
bring a perspective that theGen Z doesn't have.
So, the leader, it's incumbentupon good leaders to be able to
pull out the best from eachfigure out where the common
grounds are when it comes tocommunicating with all of them
at the same time, and constantlyfiguring out ways to figure out
where the common ground isbetween the generations and
figuring out where the strengthsare in order to really leverage
(12:20):
those strengths, whether it'sloyalty in one generation versus
privacy in another generation,whether it's open communication
or whether it's more closedcommunication.
So I think the more aware youare of the differences
generationally, you're going tobe in a much better position to
(12:40):
manage, lead, empower andinspire your teams, and I think
you'd be lucky if you had a widevariety of generational
differences across your team,because it brings a huge variety
of skill sets, perspectives andwisdom that you may not have
(13:01):
with a less diverse generationalteam.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I'm glad that you hit on all the points.
As for effective leader and soI know you have the book and you
think about the question I wantto unpack it for a second
self-care as a leader.
You find that leaders tend toall in run the count on both
ends and sometimes in the middle.
It's just we work reallyextremely hard because we are
left holding the bag and thereare some expectations, and
(13:23):
usually you'll take very goodcare of everyone else except you
.
What advice would you sharewith our listening audience?
How important it is for you asa leader, to intentionally
practice self-care?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Chapter three in my book is called Know Thyself, and
it's focused on ways in whichto elevate your self-awareness
and all of what we callmetacognitive skills, and these
are the skills regarding knowinghow best we learn, knowing how
best we gain knowledge, knowinghow best we react emotionally to
(13:53):
scenarios.
So this metacognitive skill set, which is essentially a type of
self-awareness, the more you'rein touch with your own self.
We all operate differently anduniquely, thank goodness, in the
world, and we all have ourstrengths and our weaknesses and
those things that we want toboost and those things that we
(14:15):
want to maybe try to keep inmore control.
So the more you are aware ofthat as a leader, the more
sensitive you're going to be toyour own needs, as well as your
own shortcomings and thosethings that might trigger you
and maybe put you in a lessproductive state emotionally or
even thought wise.
So I spend the chapter talkingabout methods.
(14:39):
A lot of it is throughself-questioning on how to
elevate your sense of yourselfin order to not just know
yourself, but to also take careof yourself more intentionally,
so you're in a better positionto inspire and lead others.
There's no better example ofleadership than to walk the talk
(15:00):
and to be the person that youare hoping to instill with the
team that you lead.
So if they look to you and theysee a discombobulated and
emotionally unraveling personwho has difficult time managing
their own thought processes andtheir own emotional states, the
(15:22):
less they're going to be likelyto trust and turn to you and
look to you as an example ofleadership.
However, the better leaders whoare much more self-aware, take
care of themselves, know theirlimits and are humble enough to
recognize the areas where theymay need improvement, and in
that process, they're constantlythinking about how to be better
(15:45):
, how to be more stable, how tobe more consistent, and I think
that's all part of that takingcare of oneself and being in a
position to properly inspire andlead others.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yes, yes, there are a couple of questions that I want
to unpack.
I mean really, really greatinformation.
What's coming up as I listen toyou speak?
You use the word how to bebetter.
Let's say you and I.
You know we're in leadershipand we're the best of the best.
Everybody knows our name.
We're very dependable, we'revery competent and consciously
competent.
We know we're good and then weget promoted to this role.
We know about 30% of it, butwe'll fake it till we make it or
(16:22):
break it.
How do leaders that go fromthis high level of being
consciously competent to all ofa sudden get promoted to
something that they're not thebest at it to embrace?
Now they're consciouslyincompetent in what's expected
of them and they want to revertback to doing what they used to.
How do you help that leadermake that transition from coming
to this really, really good tomediocre, average and almost not
(16:43):
really good at it, and I needto learn it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, well, the way I look at that, I see personal
growth very much dependent ontrying to stay out of your
comfort zones.
And you know, one can certainlyget very familiar with a set of
(17:22):
processes, an ecosystem, a setof data, whatever it is that
you're grow are the ones thatthen push themselves out of that
and challenge themselves in anew opportunity.
That puts them kind of far downthe ladder from sort of the
four levels of how we attainknowledge.
Right, so you start with beingunconsciously incompetent.
You don't know what it is youdon't know.
You then move into theconsciously incompetent, where
you start to realize the thingsyou don't know.
Then you become more competentand now you're consciously
(17:43):
competent so you're able to dothings, but you're constantly
thinking about doing them, sothey're not a second nature
quite yet, until you elevateyourself to the unconsciously
competent level where thecompetence is such a part of you
that it's no longer somethingthat you need to think a lot
about.
But that ascension in knowledge, understanding and competence
(18:06):
takes time, depending on whereyou are.
I'm a musician.
I spend a lot of times learningnew instruments, and every time
I pick up a new instrumentthat's unfamiliar to me, it is a
humbling experience, becauseI'm an expert with some
instruments and I force myselfto try something that will make
me look foolish.
But that process forces me toreset and to take a step back
(18:33):
and gain new perspective on howto learn this new competent
thing.
And as I move through that, Igain all kinds of additional
wisdom, additional competence,outside of even the specific
task I'm given.
However, if I just stayed withthe one instrument that I'm
quite good at and just continueto refine that and that's
perfectly fine, right, butthat's not me.
(18:55):
I always want to step out andsay, hey, let me challenge
myself, because while Ichallenge myself, I'm going to
hopefully increase my ability tounderstand the world better.
Maybe understanding andlearning this one thing will
give me a unique perspectiveback on the other thing that I
think I'm pretty good at.
And in every one of those cases,I've learned much more in the
(19:17):
process than just kind ofsitting back and saying, no, I'm
just going to stick with what Iknow and stay at the position
that I am because I'm quitecompetent.
I get compensated for it.
X, y, z.
But if you are ambitious and ifyou want to continually grow
and if you feel you have agrowth mindset.
(19:37):
Well, that kind of requiresstepping out and getting
uncomfortable and getting to aposition where you may look
quite incompetent, but if youhave the inner strength and the
inner self-awareness and themindfulness, you're able to rise
above that and see that.
Well, this is great, becausethis is a process for me to now
(20:01):
sort of tackle this new thing,learn how to get it done and
gain all kinds of additionalskills along the way.
So it takes courage and somebravery.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, if you're listening, I mean, sean walked
through all of it.
You know, really, really greatand phenomenal.
So, as you're going throughthose phases, seeking it out, I
love that you said seek it out,go forward, continue to learn.
Sean, we're at an all-time lowwith trust for a variety of
reasons across our society.
How do I, as a leader, rebuildtrust if I broke it with my team
?
You broke it.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah Well, trust is a very hard thing to gain and
it's a very easy thing to lose,and it's very difficult to
regain it once you've lost it.
However, it certainly doesn'tmean you can't regain it.
You can.
It requires a certain level.
Going back to the concept ofself-awareness and humility,
there's this idea that thenlisten, if your ego is so big
(20:55):
that you're not going to be ableto handle that, that's
something you need to look at tosay, okay, where is the fear
here?
In learning this new thing ordoing this new thing, you have
to prove that you are in aposition that you can rebuild.
You have to be, you know,humble enough to be able to say,
first of all, admit that, hey,I screwed up here.
(21:16):
Hey, I made a decision thatbroke some trust.
I see how that happened.
I acknowledge that, and this issomething I'm going to learn
from, and I'm hoping that you'reable to continue giving me
feedback as I move forward,because, you know, leadership is
a two-way street.
You need followers to agree tofollow a leader right.
(21:37):
A leader isn't just a leaderbecause they've got a title and
they've made the decision thatthey're leading.
A leader is defined by the teamthat they're leading.
So if you have followers whohave lost trust in your
leadership, you're no longerthan their leader, at least not
effectively, right?
So the two-way street conceptis that the relationship that
(21:59):
you have with your team, itneeds to be constantly
reinforced from a standpoint oftrust, because it's they who
will define and determine yourleadership and it comes from you
, obviously, because it's areflection that's constantly
happening.
So that's why it's important,as a leader, not to think
singularly as a leader, of beinga director, a leader as purely
(22:23):
a manager.
There has to be an organic backand forth going on.
There has to be an agreementbetween the teams who are
essentially following.
They have to agree that, yes,this leadership followership
dynamic works well.
So if you can establish that,which requires a tremendous
(22:44):
amount of trust also on yourteams, right, so you need to
give them trust.
You need to give them theability to speak their mind,
speak their piece, have acertain level of safety around
that.
So someone speaking out about adecision that you made isn't
condemned or they aren't somehowpunished indirectly or directly
(23:05):
.
So I think that relationship,if you lost that, then the first
thing is to reestablish that.
But, as I say, building trustis really hard, losing it is
really easy, but building itback, I think, requires those
realizations that it is atwo-way street, that there has
to be agreement on both sidesand there has to be a level of
(23:26):
giving right.
So you have to be able to giveto your people to a large degree
in order for them to feel thatthey can once again establish
that trust.
So it takes time and you wantto ask your team how can I help
rebuild this trust with you?
What can I do to prove thatwe're all together in this and
I'm not in one direction and youguys are in another direction?
(23:49):
So the questioning process isvery self-reflective and very
important in that process ofrebuilding trust.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Phenomenal.
I mean because I think peoplethink that you know when it
happens they make excuses reallyquick, versus I love to say,
hey, you just got to own it, yougot to come clean, you got to
swallow your pride or your egoor whatever that thing is that's
getting in the way of you, andpeople will be forgiven if you
behave in a different way andallow them to know that you own
it.
And they see it and they'rehuman too.
So, thank you, you walkedthrough it really, really well
(24:19):
for the audience to listen to it.
If you find yourself in thatsituation, it's difficult, but
it's not impossible to rebuildtrust and you got to put the
work in.
So, sean, you have a book out.
Do you want to share anythingabout the book?
And then, where do we find it,the book?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
is the Art of the Question, a guide for seekers,
dreamers, problem solvers andleaders, and the slug at the top
is Better Decisions, deeperConnections and Breakthrough
Ideas.
It's 300 pages and it's 13chapters actually 14 chapters
and it's broken up into threesections.
(24:54):
The first is about reallyourselves and how we understand
knowledge, how we acquireknowledge, how we know about
ourselves.
So it's more of sort of aconstruct of what is real, what
isn't real, how do we go aboutusing questions just to
understand basic things?
The second part is aboutinterpersonal relationships.
(25:14):
Starts with the most vitalskill, which is listening.
So we go through listening, wego through conflict resolution,
we go through techniques in whatwe call reflective inquiry,
which is whether you're a leadermanaging a team, or whether
you're a partner and you're in adiscussion with a loved one,
and there's ways in which to bea more effective listener and a
(25:35):
better question asker when itcomes to interpersonal
communication.
The third and final section ofthe book is about innovation and
creative thinking.
So I take case studies and breakapart different ideas on how to
use questions to create morecollaboration between teams, how
to use questions to think moreinnovatively, how to use
(25:58):
questions in brainstorming andideation, design thinking and
things like that.
So the book overall usesquestions as the primary
catalyst for all of these typesof ideas and concepts.
But it all starts with knowingthyself, then bringing that over
to how we communicate withother humans.
As well as a little bit of partone is also critical thinking
(26:22):
and how we solve problems notnecessarily communicate and then
the third would be a little bitof the problem solving, but on
the creative ideation front.
So overall it covers all thosebases with lots and lots of
methods and ideas and systemsand techniques on how to use
questions as a leader, as acreative problem solver and as a
(26:45):
caring, productive human beingin a relationship.
So it covers a lot of ground.
It's available on Amazoncurrently, maybe available in
more sources soon, but right nowit's available on amazoncom
under my name, sean Grace.
The art of the question.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yes, yes, thank you for sharing where you can find
the book and walking through thedifferent parts and components
of the book, which I think ishuge.
As we started off with thepodcast, questions are becoming
more relevant for us to getthings done.
What's the best way ifsomeone's interested and want to
bring you on a podcast or wantsto talk more about the services
that you offer?
What's the best way for peopleto get in touch with you?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, the best way for people to get in touch with
you yeah, the best way to reachme is through my website, peak
Luma P-E-A-K-L-U-M-A.
Peak Luma is rather a new brandfor us here and it focuses
specifically on leadershipdevelopment and consulting,
executive leadership, et cetera,and the idea is it's about
(27:44):
elevation and it's about lightand enlightenment.
So there's your peak andthere's your luma.
So it's essentially sort of howwe do what we do in order to
bring out the best in you, toelevate your leadership skills
to your highest peaks while atthe same time having you shine
brighter and also enlighten youand the people you work with on
(28:07):
how to be more productive andeffective in all the things that
you do.
So that's peaklumacom, and youcould reach me through the
contact page there on the site.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for everyone that'slistening.
Reach out, the book isavailable for you.
Go to the site and you'll beable to reach out to Sean if you
have more questions aboutsomething he may have said or
what we discussed, or anopportunity for you to invite
him in if your team is lookingfor an opportunity to grow or
get better at whatever that isthat you need to get better at.
Thank you for being a guest andfor all of our guests, thank
you for hanging with us as wewalk through some practical
things.
(28:50):
No-transcript.
What I will tell you is keepgrowing, keep being curious,
never, ever, stop learning.
The world is changing fast,right around you, so don't get
stuck and frustrated.
Just retool, reskill, ask a lotof questions and get better.
The world is expecting us toget better as leaders.
The question I always askpeople is are you good enough to
be the leader of the peoplethat you're leading?
If not, get better so that waythey're well taken care of.
(29:13):
So until next time, sean and Iwill sign off and tell you thank
you for joining us andhopefully you tell a friend or
you share the link and youcontinue to follow us on.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron unpacks sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
matter.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!