April 7, 2025 • 38 mins
Tom Vozzo's journey from corporate executive to CEO of Homeboy Industries demonstrates how leadership built on authentic relationships can transform lives, particularly for those society has most marginalized.
• Leaving a 26-year corporate career after questioning whether shareholder value should always come before employee welfare
• Discovering that former gang members and previously incarcerated individuals make excellent employees when given proper support
• Building an organization where two-thirds of management came from the formerly incarcerated population they serve
• Creating a community focused on healing trauma rather than punishing past mistakes
• Challenging businesses to hire from marginalized populations as part of their community commitment
• Breaking conventional leadership wisdom by treating people individually rather than worrying about precedent
• Finding deeper spirituality through serving others and witnessing their transformation
• Learning that people want to work hard and succeed when given genuine opportunities
• Recognizing that effective leaders find joy through others' success rather than personal achievement
Visit Homeboy Industries online or find Tom's book "The Homeboy Way" on Amazon to learn more about investing in people society has forgotten.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Good afternoon.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, the Chief Operating
Officer for Global Corps.
We're based out of Columbia,south Carolina.
For those that follow us on aweekly basis, everything
leadership.
We spend all of our time tryingto help leaders be better
connected to the people thatthey really are responsible for
and responsible to.
I truly believe leadership isnot about the leader, it's about
the people that counted us toget it right, and so we spend
(00:51):
all of our time helpingorganizations figure that out,
as leaders are struggling inthis space across the board.
But we always pause and we doour recordings and we release
the podcast every single Mondayand it's from leaders across the
globe with all differentbackgrounds, different
perspectives, and I always wantto invite those leaders to share
, because we see it so manydifferent ways, and I'm super
excited I have Tom on with uswho's going to share a lot of
(01:13):
information throughout thepodcast, but I'm super excited
to have him, so I'm going topause, hand him the microphone
and let him introduce himselfhowever he wishes and we'll dive
into the unpacking piece of it.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
All right, thank you, ron, appreciate being with you.
Okay, to introduce myself, I'mTom Bozo.
I'm the CEO of HomeboyIndustries, and Homeboy is a
nonprofit in Los Angeles, andour mission is to help men and
women leave gang life.
So when folks come out of theprison system, they really don't
want to go back to theirneighborhood and turn to the
gang for help.
They'd rather do somethingdifferent, and so they walk
(01:45):
through our doors and we helpthem with a whole host of
services.
We also run social enterprisebusinesses, where we teach them,
really for the first time intheir life, to be at a job and
to show up, but what we're about, though, is helping people heal
from their trauma.
So I'm the CEO.
Homeboy's been around for over30 years.
I've been in this role now for12 years.
Prior to that, I was AramarkCorporation, so I ran a $2
(02:08):
billion set of uniformbusinesses for Aramark with
18,000 employees, and it wasquite successful, and I love
that.
Part of my first chapter of mycareer is to run a big
for-profit business and reallywin in the marketplace and do
well for its employees.
But, through friends of mineafter I left corporate America,
they introduced me to Homeboy,and I became inspired to try to
(02:28):
put my business skills to use ina different way, and now I've
learned so much more aboutmyself, about the struggles of
the working poor, but also aboutleadership.
and what other lessons are therefrom learning and working with
folks who have been in gangs?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, tom, thank you for sharing.
I mean, you know so those ofyou that are listening, you know
two different things you'vedone.
You had a career and after thatcareer you figured out what
else was next and what wasimportant.
You know you're in corporateAmerica, had a really, really
successful career.
Was it something that you werejust missing that made you do
the transition?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I had a great 26 year career, mark, and I love that
part of my life, my firstchapter.
But look, a well-run company isthree things it does well for
its shareholders, so it'scompetitive in the marketplace,
it's got products and servicessomeone wants to pay money for
and thirdly, you make it a greatplace to work for your
employees.
And so if you can keep allthree in balance, you've got a
great company, and we did.
(03:19):
But there's one part of thecorporate America that sort of
always nagged at me.
You know, listen, I'm acapitalist.
Even while I do homeboyspeeches, I still say I'm a
capitalist, that well-runcompanies are good for our
society.
But you know, in our capitalmarkets right now, it always has
been that shareholder value,shareholders come before
employees, and so when pushcomes to shove, it's the
(03:40):
employees who sort of suffer.
And back in 2008,.
My seminal moment was in 2008,which we had a big recession.
Back then Everything shrunk by10% and I remember I had to
resize my business, just likeyou do in the business world,
and I thought we were doingpretty good.
And so our businesses that year, my businesses that year, we're
going to finish with $140million of profit of profit, not
(04:04):
revenue, profit and we're goingto miss our number by $10
million.
And I still remember being onthe phone with the chairman and
he was berating me that thatwasn't good enough, that I
needed to get that last $10million back in the biggest
recession in 50 years, and atthat moment I thought I know
what it's going to take to takethat last $10 million out.
I'm going to have to let moreemployees go, folks who have
(04:26):
dedicated their life to thecompany, folks I know I'm going
to need in a couple more years.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I'm doing that because of short-term profits,
and so something sat in me thatthis doesn't feel right all the
time.
Whereas I enjoyed, like I said,I enjoyed the business world, I
enjoyed succeeding, leading theteams I wondered something that
made me say is there adifferent way to conducting
business where employees are atthe same level of shareholders?
And so a few years later Iremarked a very successful story
(04:51):
.
It was a private company,public company, private company.
So I got to be there for a fewof those transactions and so I
was able to leave and I didn'tthink I'd work again.
And then I show up.
A friend of mine asked me tomeet him for Homegirl Cafe for
lunch.
And so that friend has been.
I'm a friend of his becausewe're on the board of Salvation
Army of Los Angeles together.
Look, eric Mark always taughtus, although we have a national
(05:13):
business, international business, whatever community you live in
, try to give back and be partof charities.
And so when my Salvation Armyboard member friend invited me
to Homegirl Cafe, which is rightdowntown Los Angeles, I come
down to meet.
And I knew nothing aboutHomeboy, what it was about, but
I'm sitting there having lunchwith my friend and he was
clearly trying to get meinvolved with the Homeboy in
(05:35):
terms of being a board member.
But I'm having lunch and I'mlooking at the employees and I'm
realizing that I'm looking atthem.
They're doing pretty well,they're working hard, they're
engaging with the customer,they're taking instructions from
their supervisor, they'resmiling with each other and look
for me, like back in my lasteight years in the corporate
world I had made 40 acquisitionsin eight years and sold five
(05:59):
companies.
So you get a sense for theworkforce and whether it matches
your values.
And so sitting there in theHomegirl cafe looking at the
employees, I'm thinking, oh,they're pretty good employees.
And I'm also realizing I wouldhave never hired any of them in
my for-profit job.
You know, they had tattoos ontheir face, they had felonies,
they were gang members, no way.
(06:20):
But here is this workforce thatHomeboy is really lifting up
and helping.
And so it challenged me tothink, oh, I'm a hotshot CEO.
I thought I knew a lot aboutwell-run companies and what that
can do for society, but here'sHomeboy really helping out the
most demonized and forgotten.
So when my friend asked me toget involved, I said yes because
(06:40):
I wanted to see if I could putmy business skills to use in a
different way and I thought I'dbe here for six months to a year
to help them out, and they weregoing through a financial
crunch at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And here I am, 12 years later, just love this
chapter of my career.
Yeah, and I was fascinated by itas I read the bio and team
reached out and to get us on thecall together as you worked
when you first came on as CEO,you came in without compensation
, right.
As you worked when you firstcame on as CEO, you came in
without compensation, right,yeah, I mean because they were
in a financial crunch.
And when you think ofleadership, did you pick that up
(07:10):
in corporate America or was italways instilled in you from
coming up as a kid thatsometimes you got to give back?
And it can't always be aboutmoney.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, no, it was definitely.
My parents taught us that togive back and to share what you
have.
But you know it's a littlefunny dynamic though.
All of us in our society, inour world, you know you sort of
measure yourself against yourcompensation, right.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Even when I say now I realize how silly that sounds
right, but you know, you kind ofvalidate yourself by what you
get paid.
I was a volunteer for a coupleof months and then the founder
asked me to come on board as theCEO.
So I said yes, and so you know,I had some sort of nominal
compensation there.
And then, like two months later, we got into financial crisis.
Yes, and I realized right thenI mean it was right in front of
(07:54):
my face.
Look, this is.
While I ran a $2 billion set ofbusinesses, I had a lot of
challenges, right, this homeboyjob is one of the hardest jobs.
High cost of failure, because Iknow they're out running with
the gangs and doing violentcrimes and going back into
prison system High cost offailure.
And so you know, thankfully.
(08:16):
Again back to the Aramark days.
I went through a couple oftransactions my wife and I did
well, so I didn't need the money, and so the money at that point
was more about sort of justsaying you know, whatever, it
was just some false measurement,right, but here it's like no, I
can hire four more homies forthe same salary.
So one thing led to another andthat's how we ended up playing
(08:39):
out the rest of the 12 years,but I just love this job.
I love what it has done for meand how I've grown in my own
spirituality, my own view ofpeople, and it's just been
wonderful.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, my wife and I run abusiness and I always tell
people in Columbia, southCarolina, that if we can help
them be successful, that's whatit's about.
We're better.
We're retired Army 21 years andwanted to do something bigger
than you know.
Even going into the Army wasbigger than me.
It was about serving thecountry, and now in my community
, it's about serving thecommunity.
You mentioned something earlier,though.
Tom, I want to unpack with you.
I mean you have a phenomenalresume.
(09:13):
There's a lot of stuff we cantalk about.
I mean, you've had a stellarcareer, but for the people
that's listening you mentionedsomething earlier two things.
One was if you are going tomake money in the community,
give back to the community, likeas a business owner or a
corporate company.
How important is that forleaders to really do that and do
it consistently?
Because you're making money inthe community, how important is
(09:35):
it for us to give back asbusiness owners or people that
are earning a really good livingin our communities?
How important is it to giveback to our communities?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, I think it's important to give back.
I mean, obviously none of uswould be successful without the
community around us, without thepeople who come and transact,
buyer goods or services and allthat, the obvious thing.
A vibrant community sort oflifts all businesses up right.
So it's important to give back.
I want to say give back isreally in three ways.
(10:02):
Give back is obviously donatemoney, which is fine.
So for a lot of years I made alot of money, I donated a lot of
money, so that's good.
Second, give back is volunteertime.
If you're running your businessyou don't always have a lot of
time, but if you can be on aboard or if you can send one of
your employees to, if you've gota marketing expert, go send
them to a local nonprofitbecause they don't have any
marketing experts.
(10:23):
Just give them those freeservices along the way.
And the third thing I want tosay if possible, please hire the
working poor.
And I want to talk a little bitmore about this.
I've learned at Homeboy.
Look back at Aramark we had.
You know there wasn't a sexything.
We were a uniform business.
We picked up dirty laundry.
(10:43):
We have food at stadiums, wedelivered, we served food, hot
dogs and coffee, that type ofthing.
So we had a lot of frontlineemployees.
So we had a lot of frontlineemployees.
But Homeboy was able to learn isthat we're able to take the
most demonized, forgotten peoplein our society and lift them up
out of poverty by coming toHomeboy and learning to heal and
(11:04):
learning job skills.
Poverty rate in America hasbeen the same 45 years.
We haven't changed.
It's still a narrow band of 12to 13% of our society is in
poverty.
And how do you fix that?
You get more people, jobs, morepeople, a little bit better
paying jobs, quality jobs.
(11:26):
So I'm saying at Homeboy boy,if we can take the most
demonized and be able to getthem a job after they are with
Homeboy, then business America,corporate America, you know,
take the next 10% of your hiresand hire the working poor, but
you have to give them servicesaround, you have to help them.
And let me say one more thingabout that.
First of all, my point is thirdpoint investing into people,
giving them jobs, is going tomake a difference in our
societies, in our localcommunities, right.
And then for our folks who arethe working poor they got
(11:50):
challenges, got a lot ofchallenges.
They want to do a good job allthe time.
What gets in their way is theirhome life and sometimes we as
businesses we have programs needto give them the extra chance.
So when my assistant, who's ahomegirl, you know, does a
wonderful job, lives in ashelter with her daughter, just
is fiercely loyal, wants to moveher daughter forward, you know,
(12:12):
tough gang member, all thatstuff right, but she does a good
job for me when you know she's.
You know this is a couple ofyears ago.
We had a.
We're a nonprofit, so we have aquarterly board meeting.
You know we have a boardmeeting at 7.30 in the morning.
You know she would get here at6.45, make sure the papers are
out on the table, the water'sthere.
The night before one of ourboard meetings her parole
(12:32):
officer calls her up and saysthat she needs to be reported to
his office at 8 am the next dayand she says no, I have a job,
they need me to do this job.
And he said I don't care, ifyou're not here by 8, am I'm
going to violate your parole,which means go back into prison,
because he was going on a powertrip right Now.
We're a homeboy.
(12:53):
We said go take care of yourbusiness, it's fine.
Probably other companies wouldsay fine, but would she be so
shameful that she wouldn't tellher employer yes, she's got to
report in and then thereby shewould have a tardy or late and
then be viewed as a problememployee.
So my point is our folks aregreat, loyal workers, hard
(13:15):
workers.
You just got to give them morelatitude and leeway to help them
through their struggles in life.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I totally agree.
I mean, oftentimes what you seeon the surface is not the issue
.
And how do you just dig alittle deeper, care a little
more, do a little more?
You know when you think aboutleadership and if you're making
profit or nonprofit, what is itabout you that you've learned
about you caring a little more?
Because I got it, you took careof stakeholders and profit
share, but now it's this thingof was something triggered where
(13:43):
you realized that you reallycare a little bit more, and it's
not just about the numbers.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
It's interesting how you ask that question.
It's realizing that all of us,and even you know the business
world, can impact other people'slives.
Even though I didn't grow up agang member I didn't, I wasn't
incarcerated right by beingthere, in relationship with them
, they are changing their life.
It's not like I'm telling themwhat to do, wagging my finger,
it's just being in relationshipwith them changes life.
(14:10):
And then and that's the beautyof being a homeboy I put in
these terms I don't know if thisworks for your audience or not
but, like you, see God.
I see God's presence every dayat homeboys, because we're with
our folks.
They're with us for 18 months.
So you see, when they come inat the beginning they're raw,
they're angry, they're broken,and then we see them all through
(14:34):
those 18 months and how theyjust sort of just develop and
learn to smile and be authenticand move their life forward.
And just by me doing my job asa CEO I'm part of that team that
helps that happen and that'srealizing wow, all of us can
make a difference in otherpeople's lives.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yes, yes and yes, you're using all the right
language.
So everybody knows I invitepeople from all walks of life.
So thank you, you do get to seeGod in those things.
If you just do the right thing,you'll see it show up.
You mentioned something earlier, tom.
If you can unpack it for us youtalked about organizations and
isn't in alignment with yourvalues.
So when you're running anorganization and you think about
(15:11):
profit but sometimes you canwork for organizations out of
alignment how do you helpleaders make sure that their
personal values which I believewe all have these personal
values and then you walk intoorganization and they're not in
alignment?
How do you help leaders makethat distinction that, hey,
figure that out.
And how important is it to bein alignment with what your
values are, along with corevalues of an organization?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, there's a lot in there.
I've done a lot of thinkingabout this and why we're doing
this.
One of the reasons why we dothis interview is because I
wrote a book about Homeboy rightand so it's called the Homeboy
Way and why I started my.
I'm going to be a long answerto your question.
When I first came into Homeboylike it was 26 years in
corporate America, like I kindof grew up with the philosophy,
(15:56):
hey, show me the rules andwithin the rules I'll win and be
successful, right.
Other people want to break therules.
I'll stay within the linesRight and be successful.
So I come to Homeboy and it'slike I'm like they didn't need
me to improve their mission.
They do a wonderful job.
I've done a wonderful job ofhelping people leave gang life
behind.
They needed me to kind of runtheir work.
How do you run a successful?
(16:17):
How do you thrive?
How do you find the money?
How do you keep it going right?
So it was a great learningsituation for me, because I know
I didn't have to sort of domuch about the mission.
I just had to sort of just hadto listen and it's that
listening that makes the biggestdifference in realizing that
how I would treat a certainemployee situation.
From all my 26 years, homeboydid it differently, almost like
(16:38):
180 degrees different.
And so from early on I wanted towrite a book about oh my gosh,
there's so much to be learnedhere at Homeboy.
If I would ever go back intothe corporate world, what would
I bring back?
And so in writing the book thenI sort of sort of you know,
then you have to make a big book, you have to make enough
content.
So then I started thinkingabout your question about values
(16:58):
and about how that situatesright.
And so I guess I want to say itthis way now, if you're a
leader, you get to set thevalues.
Yeah, I mean, you bring yourculture along, you hire the
people that sort of have samevalues, may not same style, may
not same abilities, but samevalues.
Right, there are very few likesole leaders, whether the owner
(17:20):
of the company, but like even me, when I ran a two billion
dollar company, I reported thechairman.
So what I want to say don't beso stressed if, like the company
, higher ups don't have yoursame core values.
Right, obviously never doanything illegal, immoral or
unethical.
Right, you can't always changethe company's values from your
(17:41):
one position in that company,but do great for your team, the
people who work for you right,and make sure they understand
your values, because you'releading them every day along the
way and, importantly, it's okayto have a good paying job and
you're doing well for them.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
But you have a life outside.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Of work, that's the other thing.
I've learned it's important tobalance your life with.
If you want to live out yourvalues.
It doesn't always have to be atwork, it could be at home, and
what you do outside of work isalso important.
So it's now through the leaderyou get to set the temperature
and the template and then go forit.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean so you've been in therole now going on 12 years.
You don't have the backgroundof the people that you're
serving, and so thank you forsharing that.
But what did you learn aboutyourself from people that, as
you said, the most demonized?
You know part of our populationthat people don't want to
appreciate.
What did they teach you aboutyou?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
First of all, it's the community here at Homeboy.
Father Greg, our founder Jesuitpriest, started Homeboy
Industries 38 years ago as hisfirst stop as a parish priest
(19:01):
was in East Los Angeles, whichin the 90s was the gang.
Half a cent of gang violence inLos Angeles and even today Los
Angeles is the gang capital ofthe state, which makes it the
gang capital of the country,which makes it the gang capital
of the world A lot of gangmembers.
And so Father Greg, hit upon ifyou get these young men a job
where they can make enough moneyfor the basics of food and
shelter, they're not runningwith the gang to get that money
for food and shelter and thenover the years moved into more
helping folks heal.
(19:21):
And so at Homeboy we have thisbeautiful community that we
accept everybody in.
We don't judge them for thegang they were in or their
felony or their tattoos.
We don't ask too much abouttheir past.
It's about helping them healand forming positive
relationships.
For the first time we havesocial enterprise businesses
(19:41):
that help them job skills alongthe way.
There's nothing better thanhaving two rival gang members at
the bread table rolling go tomake bread for the day, because
it breaks down the barriers andbreaks down their hatreds and
they know they've got to get acertain amount of bread baked
that day.
And the beauty is recognizingthat you don't demonize somebody
relationship with.
(20:01):
And the other learning isthere's a lot of learning.
One of the other learning isback to the beginning.
Like people want to work hard,so just just don't.
If they're not getting theirjob, then it's not because they
don't care, it's just thatsomething else is in their life
that's causing the situation.
Another learning is there's nosuch thing as bad people.
All good, we all have God'sgoodness in us along the way,
(20:21):
and so I was happy to have itbecause all those three things I
just said we grew up learningthose stuff, but I see them in
action at Homeboy, which reallycemented it in my brain.
But what Homeboy has helped meis on my own faith journey, and
obviously we're founders.
A Jesuit priest, one wouldthink.
Well, that's why I'm on thefaith journey.
But no, no, it's the homies.
(20:42):
It's seeing how they aretransforming their life.
And they transform their lifewhen they start learning to love
themselves.
When they love themselves, theycan love their family and they
can form those positiverelationships.
And this is my observation andthey say it this way, they start
loving themselves when theyfinally understand deep down
that God loves them no matterwhat.
(21:03):
Yes, and that is an amazinglesson to learn and to try to
follow.
And when I've now stoppedjudging myself, I've stopped
trying to measure up, I'vestopped all those things,
because if a guy can been insolitary confinement for three
years, he comes out and he knowsGod loves him and he's changing
(21:25):
his life.
I can do it as well.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So when you think about your role as a leader and
what you've learned from thehomies, what do you share with
leaders?
You talked a lot aboutrelationships and you said that
it's the relationship thatyou're having.
I can say that in my 21 yearsof serving in the army that I
learned more about relationshipsprobably the latter part of my
career than I learned the firstpart.
(21:49):
I thought it was about myknowledge and my position and my
control and all these otherthings attributes that you want
to say.
How would you share withleaders that are listening to
help them understand the realvalue of a authentic, helpful
relationship?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Hmm, you're right.
I mean, what makes my lifebalanced is I find joy.
I decided I'm working to findjoy and there's no doubt that
you find joy through others andit's that sense of I'm going to
find joy with the people atHomeboy.
Now I know I'm in charge andthat's the thing.
(22:25):
Like in the corporate world,there's hierarchy.
You think like you can't have arelationship with somebody too
down.
Yes, like how am I going to getthese frontline homies coming
in?
Whether it's a quick meal inthe lunchroom or talk about the
football game or just you know,they come into my office and ask
for individual advice forthings.
It's having that relationshipwhere joy happens.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's mutual.
That's what we all need tolearn.
Yeah, I mean because you'regoing from this position of hey,
see me where I am, and if youdon't do a really good job, that
disconnect doesn't allow you toserve or help the people that
you really are supposed to help,the people that can really use
you at the level that you're at.
The people that can really useyou they're not the ones that's
closest to you, they're the onesthat has the furthest distance
away from you that can reallyuse what you're there for.
(23:13):
I think that's important.
What do you tell a leader thatgets stuck in titles and
positions and ego?
How does that get in the way ofyou helping?
Because I really believeleadership is service?
How does that get in the way ofserving those that need you?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, no doubt.
I mean serving leadership isthe way to do it.
You have a great team aroundyou.
You keep investing in them,like everywhere has ever been.
It's like, hey, my team makesme look better, right, and so we
all succeed together and that'sa value thing.
So I don't know, I don't know,I'm going to like maybe not
answer your question.
Either you have that value thatyou're going to be team
oriented or not.
I mean, if you're going to be alone Ranger.
(23:48):
You're going to be a loneRanger.
You know I'm not going toconvince you.
Otherwise may not have a happylife, but it's about seeing
other people rise up.
Your pleasure should be inother people's success.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, I love it and you watch it in sports all the
time.
You try to be the one playerthat has all the answers, make
all the points and you destroyyour team in the locker room.
Once you lose the locker room,you're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh yeah, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yes, you're in trouble For the work that you're
currently doing.
You mentioned earlier thatpeople that have been formerly
incarcerated they're not tryingto go back.
What do you say to otherbusinesses and communities
paying attention to those peoplethat have been incarcerated to
give them a second chance, tohelp them become productive in
society so they can have a goodjob and take care of their
families.
They're not really trying to beincarcerated again.
(24:34):
What do you say to thecommunity everybody that's
listening, because I think inAmerica we're finally having the
conversation.
15 years ago we didn't want tohave this conversation, you're
right.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
No, no, you're right, I want to, you're right.
No, no, you're right.
I want to take the kind of thepure business talk point of view
.
Yes, listen, most of the folkswho refuse incarcerated, come
out and take on frontlineentry-level jobs.
Right, minimum wage, a littlebit more than minimum wage jobs.
If they wanted to run and docrime and gangs, they can make a
lot more money on the street.
(25:02):
Yes, I mean they're.
By them taking on that job thatpays a couple bucks above the
minimum wage, they're saying,hey, I want to earn an honest
day's wage.
Yes, they do, they do, they do.
They know deep down in theheart what they've been doing is
wrong, but they've had no otherway of surviving.
People have survival skills andso we at Homeboy recognize that
.
We're not saying we're going tolook past those crime and they
(25:25):
have to go do their time andthen when they come out, let's
help them.
And so they want to do a goodjob because they're getting that
paid.
Hey, they've never worked.
Most people that have beenincarcerated that we've worked
with they've never worked.
Most people that have beenincarcerated that we've worked
with they've never workedanywhere in their whole life, so
it's their first job you'vegiven them, so you've got to
really like the rest of us,since I had this muscle memory
(25:47):
of things we just kind of takefor granted that people should
know at work.
Right, they don't know.
Think about the last guy thatcomes out in the 15-year stint.
He doesn't even know what asmartphone is Right, and so he's
not going to know some of thestuff at work.
So A you have to overtrain themor train them a lot and teach
them.
You know they're going to wantto do the work and they're going
(26:09):
to have other challengeswhether they have family
reunification issues, whetherthey abuse drugs in the prison
system so they're going to havechallenges they're going to have
to work through.
So while they may not be thebest worker right away, you hang
with them.
They're going to be among yourbest workers long-term.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
You've managed to earn the trust of the people
that you're responsible forserving, and I know the
organization brought you in forwhat they needed, but to have a
relationship and take care ofthe people that need it the most
.
How do you help leaders thatare listening, whether they're
new in leadership or whetherthey've been there for a while,
to build more trust with thepeople that need their help?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Well, let me give you two the answer in the frame of
Homeboy and maybe it resonateswith folks and their roles right
.
On one hand, they see mefighting every day to help get
resources for Homeboy.
Homeboy's really their only spotthat's ever invested in them
and tried to help them.
And so, yeah, they see mefighting at it and working hard
and to do all that and there'snot just called the way it is.
(27:04):
I mean, like up here is whiteman, old white man, profile at a
corporate executive, coming inright dealing with folks who are
very, very diverse population,and so on the surface they, you
know, look, there's all sorts ofracism.
Yes, the folks that we workwith have all sorts of real
(27:28):
racism and discrimination intheir background, and the way
gangs' culture is set up, it isgang against gang, race against
race, and so people come inreally bitter, bitter, bitter,
and we help them.
Don't deal with the race issue,don't deal with the gang issue,
deal with the gang member orthe person, and we help.
Kind of quell that.
But they see me fighting forthem.
They see me sort of going toGovernor Newsom's office and
saying here's the money we need,right, and so they see that.
(27:49):
So every day, showing up andworking to help them out.
Second, though, is and this iswhere I think other people can
learn as well I've worked reallyhard to grow our leadership
talent from within, so now twothirds of our management team
were once former clients, and soto me it was really important
to have these men and women whoare really I mean, they're great
(28:12):
natural leadership skills, andso I kind of taught them the
managerial skills as well andthen put them at all this, so
not just frontline managersthey're at the director level,
VP level five, my executive team, Right.
And so when the new homies thatwe call them trainees see, hey,
I knew that guy in prison from10 years ago.
(28:32):
Now he's running this bigdepartment, Right, that goes a
long way.
And look, I'm not doing thatjust to get credit, I just doing
that.
Know that for homeboy to thrivein the future he needs to be
run by homeboys.
So sort of investing in thepopulation is really makes a
difference.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I love it.
I mean you're working hard forhim every day, investing in the
population and you know thefuture is homeboys.
You know being able to run thatorganization at some point,
that has experience with it, andI love that.
You're being transparent.
You know you say hey, I'mwalking in as an older white guy
.
You know racism is challenges,they're in gangs and they come
with a lot of hatred, but thatdoesn't mean that it has to stay
that way.
So you know you invest it.
Yeah, there's opportunities tochange it and make it go better,
(29:11):
which I'm sure you touch inyour book.
I mean, can I mean, can youshare?
I mean I know you have the bookand I want to make sure people
know about it because we'retrying to work better with our
people that have beenincarcerated, formerly
incarcerated.
Tell us a little bit about thebook.
What do you want people to walkaway from?
You wrote it and you had tomake it longer.
What do you want people to walkaway from?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Well, yeah, one is that invest in this population,
hire the working poor, hire thepeople I'm talking about and
provide support services aroundit.
You know cause?
Not everything is sort of theway we learned in corporate
America, right.
And in the end, I sort of talkedabout 50, 50 rules of thumb and
we all need to break 50conventional wisdom ideas.
(29:48):
We need to kind of go againstthe conventional wisdom, but
like one, like one that we grewup with in the corporate world
is like, as anybody growing updoing well, you want to get
promoted.
And so you say to that somebodyhey, do the job for three to
six months.
If you do well, we'll give youa promotion and we'll give you a
raise.
Well, homeboy world, thatdoesn't work, because all their
(30:10):
life our folks have beenpromised things, been told
things, and that they would behelped out, and they just never
get there.
So what I had to realize?
Oh, have to sort of see thetalent and put them in the job
and then say what we expect ofthem, and then they rise, and
they rise to the occasion.
And so there's sort of this,this concepts of treating people
individually.
Right, don't worry aboutsetting precedent in your
(30:31):
company, just treat peopleindividually.
So there's a bunch of theseconcepts in there.
And so there's that.
There's how a guy like me whogrew up in corporate America,
while I was a churchgoer myfaith wasn't so deep I found my
deep spiritual faith, andthere's a whole bunch of stuff
in there about social justiceand how, as a society, how we
invest in people.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, I love it.
Thank you for allowing us tounpack a lot with you.
I mean, you went deep on a lotof things and for all you that
follow us on the podcast, youknow we just have a conversation
about the person that's infront of us.
They never know the questions,but I will tell you that it's
never failed that they come onand talk about what's useful at
the moment and where we are.
I mean, I couldn't think of abetter person to talk about
where we are as a country anddealing with our people that
(31:13):
have been formerly incarcerated.
If we say we have a workforceshortage, then there's a
population that we can bring into help cover those gaps across
board.
And they're coming in andthey're saying I just want to
earn an honest living.
And you're right too, tom.
They can go in and make money,more money, doing it the wrong
way, but they've chosen theydon't want to do it the wrong
way anymore.
So they'll take that job andthey'll figure it out, but make
(31:33):
sure you reward them and get tothem.
Is there anything you want toshare as closing remarks?
I would love for you to tell uswhere to find the book.
Any closing remarks you leavewith leaders.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, for sure.
So books on Amazon Come also atHomeboy.
We have a lot of content aboutpeople, about compassion, about
kinship, about how our secretsauce is love and nonjudgment
along the way.
So come to our web pages, ourFacebook pages along the way.
So come to our web pages, ourFacebook pages.
But you know, let me just sortof end by the lesson I've
learned in listening to FatherGreg.
(32:02):
Pretty quick, pretty short.
God is too busy loving us to bejudging us.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Just hold on to that.
Yes, thank you so much forsharing and for all of us
listening, we released a podcast.
You know, tom, thank you somuch for sharing, thank you for
what you're doing in thatcommunity.
It's needed, and coming out ofcorporate America and finding
yourself again.
Thank you for being transparentabout that For everyone that's
listening.
Feel free to reach out to Tomor myself If you want to hear
more of his story.
(32:29):
Please go to Homeboy's website.
There's a ton of informationout there for you to be able to
get access and resources.
If you want to reach Tom, youcan reach him there as well.
I'm sure he'll be happy to comeon the podcast.
If you're hosting podcasts outthere to talk about this.
Let's help to get the messageout more than just to LA or to
California.
It's across our entire country.
So thank y'all for following uson Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
(32:50):
As always, we appreciate you.
Share the link, tell peopleabout what we're doing here.
We want to make a differenceand not just make it look good.
We talk real and we answer realquestions.
So, tom, thank you and for therest of you, have a wonderful
day, and thank you for joiningus on Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(33:27):
leadership.
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Good afternoon.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, the Chief Operating
Officer for Global Corps.
We're based out of Columbia,south Carolina.
For those that follow us on aweekly basis, everything
leadership.
We spend all of our time tryingto help leaders be better
connected to the people thatthey really are responsible for
and responsible to.
I truly believe leadership isnot about the leader, it's about
the people that counted us toget it right, and so we spend
(00:51):
all of our time helpingorganizations figure that out,
as leaders are struggling inthis space across the board.
But we always pause and we doour recordings and we release
the podcast every single Mondayand it's from leaders across the
globe with all differentbackgrounds, different
perspectives, and I always wantto invite those leaders to share
, because we see it so manydifferent ways, and I'm super
excited I have Tom on with uswho's going to share a lot of
(01:13):
information throughout thepodcast, but I'm super excited
to have him, so I'm going topause, hand him the microphone
and let him introduce himselfhowever he wishes and we'll dive
into the unpacking piece of it.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
All right, thank you, ron, appreciate being with you.
Okay, to introduce myself, I'mTom Bozo.
I'm the CEO of HomeboyIndustries, and Homeboy is a
nonprofit in Los Angeles, andour mission is to help men and
women leave gang life.
So when folks come out of theprison system, they really don't
want to go back to theirneighborhood and turn to the
gang for help.
They'd rather do somethingdifferent, and so they walk
(01:45):
through our doors and we helpthem with a whole host of
services.
We also run social enterprisebusinesses, where we teach them,
really for the first time intheir life, to be at a job and
to show up, but what we're about, though, is helping people heal
from their trauma.
So I'm the CEO.
Homeboy's been around for over30 years.
I've been in this role now for12 years.
Prior to that, I was AramarkCorporation, so I ran a $2
(02:08):
billion set of uniformbusinesses for Aramark with
18,000 employees, and it wasquite successful, and I love
that.
Part of my first chapter of mycareer is to run a big
for-profit business and reallywin in the marketplace and do
well for its employees.
But, through friends of mineafter I left corporate America,
they introduced me to Homeboy,and I became inspired to try to
(02:28):
put my business skills to use ina different way, and now I've
learned so much more aboutmyself, about the struggles of
the working poor, but also aboutleadership.
and what other lessons are therefrom learning and working with
folks who have been in gangs?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, tom, thank you for sharing.
I mean, you know so those ofyou that are listening, you know
two different things you'vedone.
You had a career and after thatcareer you figured out what
else was next and what wasimportant.
You know you're in corporateAmerica, had a really, really
successful career.
Was it something that you werejust missing that made you do
the transition?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I had a great 26 year career, mark, and I love that
part of my life, my firstchapter.
But look, a well-run company isthree things it does well for
its shareholders, so it'scompetitive in the marketplace,
it's got products and servicessomeone wants to pay money for
and thirdly, you make it a greatplace to work for your
employees.
And so if you can keep allthree in balance, you've got a
great company, and we did.
(03:19):
But there's one part of thecorporate America that sort of
always nagged at me.
You know, listen, I'm acapitalist.
Even while I do homeboyspeeches, I still say I'm a
capitalist, that well-runcompanies are good for our
society.
But you know, in our capitalmarkets right now, it always has
been that shareholder value,shareholders come before
employees, and so when pushcomes to shove, it's the
(03:40):
employees who sort of suffer.
And back in 2008,.
My seminal moment was in 2008,which we had a big recession.
Back then Everything shrunk by10% and I remember I had to
resize my business, just likeyou do in the business world,
and I thought we were doingpretty good.
And so our businesses that year, my businesses that year, we're
going to finish with $140million of profit of profit, not
(04:04):
revenue, profit and we're goingto miss our number by $10
million.
And I still remember being onthe phone with the chairman and
he was berating me that thatwasn't good enough, that I
needed to get that last $10million back in the biggest
recession in 50 years, and atthat moment I thought I know
what it's going to take to takethat last $10 million out.
I'm going to have to let moreemployees go, folks who have
(04:26):
dedicated their life to thecompany, folks I know I'm going
to need in a couple more years.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I'm doing that because of short-term profits,
and so something sat in me thatthis doesn't feel right all the
time.
Whereas I enjoyed, like I said,I enjoyed the business world, I
enjoyed succeeding, leading theteams I wondered something that
made me say is there adifferent way to conducting
business where employees are atthe same level of shareholders?
And so a few years later Iremarked a very successful story
(04:51):
.
It was a private company,public company, private company.
So I got to be there for a fewof those transactions and so I
was able to leave and I didn'tthink I'd work again.
And then I show up.
A friend of mine asked me tomeet him for Homegirl Cafe for
lunch.
And so that friend has been.
I'm a friend of his becausewe're on the board of Salvation
Army of Los Angeles together.
Look, eric Mark always taughtus, although we have a national
(05:13):
business, international business, whatever community you live in
, try to give back and be partof charities.
And so when my Salvation Armyboard member friend invited me
to Homegirl Cafe, which is rightdowntown Los Angeles, I come
down to meet.
And I knew nothing aboutHomeboy, what it was about, but
I'm sitting there having lunchwith my friend and he was
clearly trying to get meinvolved with the Homeboy in
(05:35):
terms of being a board member.
But I'm having lunch and I'mlooking at the employees and I'm
realizing that I'm looking atthem.
They're doing pretty well,they're working hard, they're
engaging with the customer,they're taking instructions from
their supervisor, they'resmiling with each other and look
for me, like back in my lasteight years in the corporate
world I had made 40 acquisitionsin eight years and sold five
(05:59):
companies.
So you get a sense for theworkforce and whether it matches
your values.
And so sitting there in theHomegirl cafe looking at the
employees, I'm thinking, oh,they're pretty good employees.
And I'm also realizing I wouldhave never hired any of them in
my for-profit job.
You know, they had tattoos ontheir face, they had felonies,
they were gang members, no way.
(06:20):
But here is this workforce thatHomeboy is really lifting up
and helping.
And so it challenged me tothink, oh, I'm a hotshot CEO.
I thought I knew a lot aboutwell-run companies and what that
can do for society, but here'sHomeboy really helping out the
most demonized and forgotten.
So when my friend asked me toget involved, I said yes because
(06:40):
I wanted to see if I could putmy business skills to use in a
different way and I thought I'dbe here for six months to a year
to help them out, and they weregoing through a financial
crunch at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And here I am, 12 years later, just love this
chapter of my career.
Yeah, and I was fascinated by itas I read the bio and team
reached out and to get us on thecall together as you worked
when you first came on as CEO,you came in without compensation
, right.
As you worked when you firstcame on as CEO, you came in
without compensation, right,yeah, I mean because they were
in a financial crunch.
And when you think ofleadership, did you pick that up
(07:10):
in corporate America or was italways instilled in you from
coming up as a kid thatsometimes you got to give back?
And it can't always be aboutmoney.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, no, it was definitely.
My parents taught us that togive back and to share what you
have.
But you know it's a littlefunny dynamic though.
All of us in our society, inour world, you know you sort of
measure yourself against yourcompensation, right.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Even when I say now I realize how silly that sounds
right, but you know, you kind ofvalidate yourself by what you
get paid.
I was a volunteer for a coupleof months and then the founder
asked me to come on board as theCEO.
So I said yes, and so you know,I had some sort of nominal
compensation there.
And then, like two months later, we got into financial crisis.
Yes, and I realized right thenI mean it was right in front of
(07:54):
my face.
Look, this is.
While I ran a $2 billion set ofbusinesses, I had a lot of
challenges, right, this homeboyjob is one of the hardest jobs.
High cost of failure, because Iknow they're out running with
the gangs and doing violentcrimes and going back into
prison system High cost offailure.
And so you know, thankfully.
(08:16):
Again back to the Aramark days.
I went through a couple oftransactions my wife and I did
well, so I didn't need the money, and so the money at that point
was more about sort of justsaying you know, whatever, it
was just some false measurement,right, but here it's like no, I
can hire four more homies forthe same salary.
So one thing led to another andthat's how we ended up playing
(08:39):
out the rest of the 12 years,but I just love this job.
I love what it has done for meand how I've grown in my own
spirituality, my own view ofpeople, and it's just been
wonderful.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, my wife and I run abusiness and I always tell
people in Columbia, southCarolina, that if we can help
them be successful, that's whatit's about.
We're better.
We're retired Army 21 years andwanted to do something bigger
than you know.
Even going into the Army wasbigger than me.
It was about serving thecountry, and now in my community
, it's about serving thecommunity.
You mentioned something earlier,though.
Tom, I want to unpack with you.
I mean you have a phenomenalresume.
(09:13):
There's a lot of stuff we cantalk about.
I mean, you've had a stellarcareer, but for the people
that's listening you mentionedsomething earlier two things.
One was if you are going tomake money in the community,
give back to the community, likeas a business owner or a
corporate company.
How important is that forleaders to really do that and do
it consistently?
Because you're making money inthe community, how important is
(09:35):
it for us to give back asbusiness owners or people that
are earning a really good livingin our communities?
How important is it to giveback to our communities?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, I think it's important to give back.
I mean, obviously none of uswould be successful without the
community around us, without thepeople who come and transact,
buyer goods or services and allthat, the obvious thing.
A vibrant community sort oflifts all businesses up right.
So it's important to give back.
I want to say give back isreally in three ways.
(10:02):
Give back is obviously donatemoney, which is fine.
So for a lot of years I made alot of money, I donated a lot of
money, so that's good.
Second, give back is volunteertime.
If you're running your businessyou don't always have a lot of
time, but if you can be on aboard or if you can send one of
your employees to, if you've gota marketing expert, go send
them to a local nonprofitbecause they don't have any
marketing experts.
(10:23):
Just give them those freeservices along the way.
And the third thing I want tosay if possible, please hire the
working poor.
And I want to talk a little bitmore about this.
I've learned at Homeboy.
Look back at Aramark we had.
You know there wasn't a sexything.
We were a uniform business.
We picked up dirty laundry.
(10:43):
We have food at stadiums, wedelivered, we served food, hot
dogs and coffee, that type ofthing.
So we had a lot of frontlineemployees.
So we had a lot of frontlineemployees.
But Homeboy was able to learn isthat we're able to take the
most demonized, forgotten peoplein our society and lift them up
out of poverty by coming toHomeboy and learning to heal and
(11:04):
learning job skills.
Poverty rate in America hasbeen the same 45 years.
We haven't changed.
It's still a narrow band of 12to 13% of our society is in
poverty.
And how do you fix that?
You get more people, jobs, morepeople, a little bit better
paying jobs, quality jobs.
(11:26):
So I'm saying at Homeboy boy,if we can take the most
demonized and be able to getthem a job after they are with
Homeboy, then business America,corporate America, you know,
take the next 10% of your hiresand hire the working poor, but
you have to give them servicesaround, you have to help them.
And let me say one more thingabout that.
First of all, my point is thirdpoint investing into people,
giving them jobs, is going tomake a difference in our
societies, in our localcommunities, right.
And then for our folks who arethe working poor they got
(11:50):
challenges, got a lot ofchallenges.
They want to do a good job allthe time.
What gets in their way is theirhome life and sometimes we as
businesses we have programs needto give them the extra chance.
So when my assistant, who's ahomegirl, you know, does a
wonderful job, lives in ashelter with her daughter, just
is fiercely loyal, wants to moveher daughter forward, you know,
(12:12):
tough gang member, all thatstuff right, but she does a good
job for me when you know she's.
You know this is a couple ofyears ago.
We had a.
We're a nonprofit, so we have aquarterly board meeting.
You know we have a boardmeeting at 7.30 in the morning.
You know she would get here at6.45, make sure the papers are
out on the table, the water'sthere.
The night before one of ourboard meetings her parole
(12:32):
officer calls her up and saysthat she needs to be reported to
his office at 8 am the next dayand she says no, I have a job,
they need me to do this job.
And he said I don't care, ifyou're not here by 8, am I'm
going to violate your parole,which means go back into prison,
because he was going on a powertrip right Now.
We're a homeboy.
(12:53):
We said go take care of yourbusiness, it's fine.
Probably other companies wouldsay fine, but would she be so
shameful that she wouldn't tellher employer yes, she's got to
report in and then thereby shewould have a tardy or late and
then be viewed as a problememployee.
So my point is our folks aregreat, loyal workers, hard
(13:15):
workers.
You just got to give them morelatitude and leeway to help them
through their struggles in life.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I totally agree.
I mean, oftentimes what you seeon the surface is not the issue
.
And how do you just dig alittle deeper, care a little
more, do a little more?
You know when you think aboutleadership and if you're making
profit or nonprofit, what is itabout you that you've learned
about you caring a little more?
Because I got it, you took careof stakeholders and profit
share, but now it's this thingof was something triggered where
(13:43):
you realized that you reallycare a little bit more, and it's
not just about the numbers.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
It's interesting how you ask that question.
It's realizing that all of us,and even you know the business
world, can impact other people'slives.
Even though I didn't grow up agang member I didn't, I wasn't
incarcerated right by beingthere, in relationship with them
, they are changing their life.
It's not like I'm telling themwhat to do, wagging my finger,
it's just being in relationshipwith them changes life.
(14:10):
And then and that's the beautyof being a homeboy I put in
these terms I don't know if thisworks for your audience or not
but, like you, see God.
I see God's presence every dayat homeboys, because we're with
our folks.
They're with us for 18 months.
So you see, when they come inat the beginning they're raw,
they're angry, they're broken,and then we see them all through
(14:34):
those 18 months and how theyjust sort of just develop and
learn to smile and be authenticand move their life forward.
And just by me doing my job asa CEO I'm part of that team that
helps that happen and that'srealizing wow, all of us can
make a difference in otherpeople's lives.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yes, yes and yes, you're using all the right
language.
So everybody knows I invitepeople from all walks of life.
So thank you, you do get to seeGod in those things.
If you just do the right thing,you'll see it show up.
You mentioned something earlier, tom.
If you can unpack it for us youtalked about organizations and
isn't in alignment with yourvalues.
So when you're running anorganization and you think about
(15:11):
profit but sometimes you canwork for organizations out of
alignment how do you helpleaders make sure that their
personal values which I believewe all have these personal
values and then you walk intoorganization and they're not in
alignment?
How do you help leaders makethat distinction that, hey,
figure that out.
And how important is it to bein alignment with what your
values are, along with corevalues of an organization?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, there's a lot in there.
I've done a lot of thinkingabout this and why we're doing
this.
One of the reasons why we dothis interview is because I
wrote a book about Homeboy rightand so it's called the Homeboy
Way and why I started my.
I'm going to be a long answerto your question.
When I first came into Homeboylike it was 26 years in
corporate America, like I kindof grew up with the philosophy,
(15:56):
hey, show me the rules andwithin the rules I'll win and be
successful, right.
Other people want to break therules.
I'll stay within the linesRight and be successful.
So I come to Homeboy and it'slike I'm like they didn't need
me to improve their mission.
They do a wonderful job.
I've done a wonderful job ofhelping people leave gang life
behind.
They needed me to kind of runtheir work.
How do you run a successful?
(16:17):
How do you thrive?
How do you find the money?
How do you keep it going right?
So it was a great learningsituation for me, because I know
I didn't have to sort of domuch about the mission.
I just had to sort of just hadto listen and it's that
listening that makes the biggestdifference in realizing that
how I would treat a certainemployee situation.
From all my 26 years, homeboydid it differently, almost like
(16:38):
180 degrees different.
And so from early on I wanted towrite a book about oh my gosh,
there's so much to be learnedhere at Homeboy.
If I would ever go back intothe corporate world, what would
I bring back?
And so in writing the book thenI sort of sort of you know,
then you have to make a big book, you have to make enough
content.
So then I started thinkingabout your question about values
(16:58):
and about how that situatesright.
And so I guess I want to say itthis way now, if you're a
leader, you get to set thevalues.
Yeah, I mean, you bring yourculture along, you hire the
people that sort of have samevalues, may not same style, may
not same abilities, but samevalues.
Right, there are very few likesole leaders, whether the owner
(17:20):
of the company, but like even me, when I ran a two billion
dollar company, I reported thechairman.
So what I want to say don't beso stressed if, like the company
, higher ups don't have yoursame core values.
Right, obviously never doanything illegal, immoral or
unethical.
Right, you can't always changethe company's values from your
(17:41):
one position in that company,but do great for your team, the
people who work for you right,and make sure they understand
your values, because you'releading them every day along the
way and, importantly, it's okayto have a good paying job and
you're doing well for them.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
But you have a life outside.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Of work, that's the other thing.
I've learned it's important tobalance your life with.
If you want to live out yourvalues.
It doesn't always have to be atwork, it could be at home, and
what you do outside of work isalso important.
So it's now through the leaderyou get to set the temperature
and the template and then go forit.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean so you've been in therole now going on 12 years.
You don't have the backgroundof the people that you're
serving, and so thank you forsharing that.
But what did you learn aboutyourself from people that, as
you said, the most demonized?
You know part of our populationthat people don't want to
appreciate.
What did they teach you aboutyou?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
First of all, it's the community here at Homeboy.
Father Greg, our founder Jesuitpriest, started Homeboy
Industries 38 years ago as hisfirst stop as a parish priest
(19:01):
was in East Los Angeles, whichin the 90s was the gang.
Half a cent of gang violence inLos Angeles and even today Los
Angeles is the gang capital ofthe state, which makes it the
gang capital of the country,which makes it the gang capital
of the world A lot of gangmembers.
And so Father Greg, hit upon ifyou get these young men a job
where they can make enough moneyfor the basics of food and
shelter, they're not runningwith the gang to get that money
for food and shelter and thenover the years moved into more
helping folks heal.
(19:21):
And so at Homeboy we have thisbeautiful community that we
accept everybody in.
We don't judge them for thegang they were in or their
felony or their tattoos.
We don't ask too much abouttheir past.
It's about helping them healand forming positive
relationships.
For the first time we havesocial enterprise businesses
(19:41):
that help them job skills alongthe way.
There's nothing better thanhaving two rival gang members at
the bread table rolling go tomake bread for the day, because
it breaks down the barriers andbreaks down their hatreds and
they know they've got to get acertain amount of bread baked
that day.
And the beauty is recognizingthat you don't demonize somebody
relationship with.
(20:01):
And the other learning isthere's a lot of learning.
One of the other learning isback to the beginning.
Like people want to work hard,so just just don't.
If they're not getting theirjob, then it's not because they
don't care, it's just thatsomething else is in their life
that's causing the situation.
Another learning is there's nosuch thing as bad people.
All good, we all have God'sgoodness in us along the way,
(20:21):
and so I was happy to have itbecause all those three things I
just said we grew up learningthose stuff, but I see them in
action at Homeboy, which reallycemented it in my brain.
But what Homeboy has helped meis on my own faith journey, and
obviously we're founders.
A Jesuit priest, one wouldthink.
Well, that's why I'm on thefaith journey.
But no, no, it's the homies.
(20:42):
It's seeing how they aretransforming their life.
And they transform their lifewhen they start learning to love
themselves.
When they love themselves, theycan love their family and they
can form those positiverelationships.
And this is my observation andthey say it this way, they start
loving themselves when theyfinally understand deep down
that God loves them no matterwhat.
(21:03):
Yes, and that is an amazinglesson to learn and to try to
follow.
And when I've now stoppedjudging myself, I've stopped
trying to measure up, I'vestopped all those things,
because if a guy can been insolitary confinement for three
years, he comes out and he knowsGod loves him and he's changing
(21:25):
his life.
I can do it as well.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So when you think about your role as a leader and
what you've learned from thehomies, what do you share with
leaders?
You talked a lot aboutrelationships and you said that
it's the relationship thatyou're having.
I can say that in my 21 yearsof serving in the army that I
learned more about relationshipsprobably the latter part of my
career than I learned the firstpart.
(21:49):
I thought it was about myknowledge and my position and my
control and all these otherthings attributes that you want
to say.
How would you share withleaders that are listening to
help them understand the realvalue of a authentic, helpful
relationship?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Hmm, you're right.
I mean, what makes my lifebalanced is I find joy.
I decided I'm working to findjoy and there's no doubt that
you find joy through others andit's that sense of I'm going to
find joy with the people atHomeboy.
Now I know I'm in charge andthat's the thing.
(22:25):
Like in the corporate world,there's hierarchy.
You think like you can't have arelationship with somebody too
down.
Yes, like how am I going to getthese frontline homies coming
in?
Whether it's a quick meal inthe lunchroom or talk about the
football game or just you know,they come into my office and ask
for individual advice forthings.
It's having that relationshipwhere joy happens.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's mutual.
That's what we all need tolearn.
Yeah, I mean because you'regoing from this position of hey,
see me where I am, and if youdon't do a really good job, that
disconnect doesn't allow you toserve or help the people that
you really are supposed to help,the people that can really use
you at the level that you're at.
The people that can really useyou they're not the ones that's
closest to you, they're the onesthat has the furthest distance
away from you that can reallyuse what you're there for.
(23:13):
I think that's important.
What do you tell a leader thatgets stuck in titles and
positions and ego?
How does that get in the way ofyou helping?
Because I really believeleadership is service?
How does that get in the way ofserving those that need you?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, no doubt.
I mean serving leadership isthe way to do it.
You have a great team aroundyou.
You keep investing in them,like everywhere has ever been.
It's like, hey, my team makesme look better, right, and so we
all succeed together and that'sa value thing.
So I don't know, I don't know,I'm going to like maybe not
answer your question.
Either you have that value thatyou're going to be team
oriented or not.
I mean, if you're going to be alone Ranger.
(23:48):
You're going to be a loneRanger.
You know I'm not going toconvince you.
Otherwise may not have a happylife, but it's about seeing
other people rise up.
Your pleasure should be inother people's success.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, I love it and you watch it in sports all the
time.
You try to be the one playerthat has all the answers, make
all the points and you destroyyour team in the locker room.
Once you lose the locker room,you're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh yeah, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yes, you're in trouble For the work that you're
currently doing.
You mentioned earlier thatpeople that have been formerly
incarcerated they're not tryingto go back.
What do you say to otherbusinesses and communities
paying attention to those peoplethat have been incarcerated to
give them a second chance, tohelp them become productive in
society so they can have a goodjob and take care of their
families.
They're not really trying to beincarcerated again.
(24:34):
What do you say to thecommunity everybody that's
listening, because I think inAmerica we're finally having the
conversation.
15 years ago we didn't want tohave this conversation, you're
right.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
No, no, you're right, I want to, you're right.
No, no, you're right.
I want to take the kind of thepure business talk point of view
.
Yes, listen, most of the folkswho refuse incarcerated, come
out and take on frontlineentry-level jobs.
Right, minimum wage, a littlebit more than minimum wage jobs.
If they wanted to run and docrime and gangs, they can make a
lot more money on the street.
(25:02):
Yes, I mean they're.
By them taking on that job thatpays a couple bucks above the
minimum wage, they're saying,hey, I want to earn an honest
day's wage.
Yes, they do, they do, they do.
They know deep down in theheart what they've been doing is
wrong, but they've had no otherway of surviving.
People have survival skills andso we at Homeboy recognize that
.
We're not saying we're going tolook past those crime and they
(25:25):
have to go do their time andthen when they come out, let's
help them.
And so they want to do a goodjob because they're getting that
paid.
Hey, they've never worked.
Most people that have beenincarcerated that we've worked
with they've never worked.
Most people that have beenincarcerated that we've worked
with they've never workedanywhere in their whole life, so
it's their first job you'vegiven them, so you've got to
really like the rest of us,since I had this muscle memory
(25:47):
of things we just kind of takefor granted that people should
know at work.
Right, they don't know.
Think about the last guy thatcomes out in the 15-year stint.
He doesn't even know what asmartphone is Right, and so he's
not going to know some of thestuff at work.
So A you have to overtrain themor train them a lot and teach
them.
You know they're going to wantto do the work and they're going
(26:09):
to have other challengeswhether they have family
reunification issues, whetherthey abuse drugs in the prison
system so they're going to havechallenges they're going to have
to work through.
So while they may not be thebest worker right away, you hang
with them.
They're going to be among yourbest workers long-term.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
You've managed to earn the trust of the people
that you're responsible forserving, and I know the
organization brought you in forwhat they needed, but to have a
relationship and take care ofthe people that need it the most
.
How do you help leaders thatare listening, whether they're
new in leadership or whetherthey've been there for a while,
to build more trust with thepeople that need their help?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Well, let me give you two the answer in the frame of
Homeboy and maybe it resonateswith folks and their roles right
.
On one hand, they see mefighting every day to help get
resources for Homeboy.
Homeboy's really their only spotthat's ever invested in them
and tried to help them.
And so, yeah, they see mefighting at it and working hard
and to do all that and there'snot just called the way it is.
(27:04):
I mean, like up here is whiteman, old white man, profile at a
corporate executive, coming inright dealing with folks who are
very, very diverse population,and so on the surface they, you
know, look, there's all sorts ofracism.
Yes, the folks that we workwith have all sorts of real
(27:28):
racism and discrimination intheir background, and the way
gangs' culture is set up, it isgang against gang, race against
race, and so people come inreally bitter, bitter, bitter,
and we help them.
Don't deal with the race issue,don't deal with the gang issue,
deal with the gang member orthe person, and we help.
Kind of quell that.
But they see me fighting forthem.
They see me sort of going toGovernor Newsom's office and
saying here's the money we need,right, and so they see that.
(27:49):
So every day, showing up andworking to help them out.
Second, though, is and this iswhere I think other people can
learn as well I've worked reallyhard to grow our leadership
talent from within, so now twothirds of our management team
were once former clients, and soto me it was really important
to have these men and women whoare really I mean, they're great
(28:12):
natural leadership skills, andso I kind of taught them the
managerial skills as well andthen put them at all this, so
not just frontline managersthey're at the director level,
VP level five, my executive team, Right.
And so when the new homies thatwe call them trainees see, hey,
I knew that guy in prison from10 years ago.
(28:32):
Now he's running this bigdepartment, Right, that goes a
long way.
And look, I'm not doing thatjust to get credit, I just doing
that.
Know that for homeboy to thrivein the future he needs to be
run by homeboys.
So sort of investing in thepopulation is really makes a
difference.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I love it.
I mean you're working hard forhim every day, investing in the
population and you know thefuture is homeboys.
You know being able to run thatorganization at some point,
that has experience with it, andI love that.
You're being transparent.
You know you say hey, I'mwalking in as an older white guy
.
You know racism is challenges,they're in gangs and they come
with a lot of hatred, but thatdoesn't mean that it has to stay
that way.
So you know you invest it.
Yeah, there's opportunities tochange it and make it go better,
(29:11):
which I'm sure you touch inyour book.
I mean, can I mean, can youshare?
I mean I know you have the bookand I want to make sure people
know about it because we'retrying to work better with our
people that have beenincarcerated, formerly
incarcerated.
Tell us a little bit about thebook.
What do you want people to walkaway from?
You wrote it and you had tomake it longer.
What do you want people to walkaway from?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Well, yeah, one is that invest in this population,
hire the working poor, hire thepeople I'm talking about and
provide support services aroundit.
You know cause?
Not everything is sort of theway we learned in corporate
America, right.
And in the end, I sort of talkedabout 50, 50 rules of thumb and
we all need to break 50conventional wisdom ideas.
(29:48):
We need to kind of go againstthe conventional wisdom, but
like one, like one that we grewup with in the corporate world
is like, as anybody growing updoing well, you want to get
promoted.
And so you say to that somebodyhey, do the job for three to
six months.
If you do well, we'll give youa promotion and we'll give you a
raise.
Well, homeboy world, thatdoesn't work, because all their
(30:10):
life our folks have beenpromised things, been told
things, and that they would behelped out, and they just never
get there.
So what I had to realize?
Oh, have to sort of see thetalent and put them in the job
and then say what we expect ofthem, and then they rise, and
they rise to the occasion.
And so there's sort of this,this concepts of treating people
individually.
Right, don't worry aboutsetting precedent in your
(30:31):
company, just treat peopleindividually.
So there's a bunch of theseconcepts in there.
And so there's that.
There's how a guy like me whogrew up in corporate America,
while I was a churchgoer myfaith wasn't so deep I found my
deep spiritual faith, andthere's a whole bunch of stuff
in there about social justiceand how, as a society, how we
invest in people.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, I love it.
Thank you for allowing us tounpack a lot with you.
I mean, you went deep on a lotof things and for all you that
follow us on the podcast, youknow we just have a conversation
about the person that's infront of us.
They never know the questions,but I will tell you that it's
never failed that they come onand talk about what's useful at
the moment and where we are.
I mean, I couldn't think of abetter person to talk about
where we are as a country anddealing with our people that
(31:13):
have been formerly incarcerated.
If we say we have a workforceshortage, then there's a
population that we can bring into help cover those gaps across
board.
And they're coming in andthey're saying I just want to
earn an honest living.
And you're right too, tom.
They can go in and make money,more money, doing it the wrong
way, but they've chosen theydon't want to do it the wrong
way anymore.
So they'll take that job andthey'll figure it out, but make
(31:33):
sure you reward them and get tothem.
Is there anything you want toshare as closing remarks?
I would love for you to tell uswhere to find the book.
Any closing remarks you leavewith leaders.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, for sure.
So books on Amazon Come also atHomeboy.
We have a lot of content aboutpeople, about compassion, about
kinship, about how our secretsauce is love and nonjudgment
along the way.
So come to our web pages, ourFacebook pages along the way.
So come to our web pages, ourFacebook pages.
But you know, let me just sortof end by the lesson I've
learned in listening to FatherGreg.
(32:02):
Pretty quick, pretty short.
God is too busy loving us to bejudging us.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Just hold on to that.
Yes, thank you so much forsharing and for all of us
listening, we released a podcast.
You know, tom, thank you somuch for sharing, thank you for
what you're doing in thatcommunity.
It's needed, and coming out ofcorporate America and finding
yourself again.
Thank you for being transparentabout that For everyone that's
listening.
Feel free to reach out to Tomor myself If you want to hear
more of his story.
(32:29):
Please go to Homeboy's website.
There's a ton of informationout there for you to be able to
get access and resources.
If you want to reach Tom, youcan reach him there as well.
I'm sure he'll be happy to comeon the podcast.
If you're hosting podcasts outthere to talk about this.
Let's help to get the messageout more than just to LA or to
California.
It's across our entire country.
So thank y'all for following uson Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
(32:50):
As always, we appreciate you.
Share the link, tell peopleabout what we're doing here.
We want to make a differenceand not just make it look good.
We talk real and we answer realquestions.
So, tom, thank you and for therest of you, have a wonderful
day, and thank you for joiningus on Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(33:27):
leadership.
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