December 22, 2025 • 51 mins
We talk with retired superintendent JR Green about turning a “graveyard for superintendents” into a destination district by putting culture, courage, and accountability first. We unpack faith over fear, family support, collaboration over competition, and the difference between authority and leadership.
• JR Green’s path from assistant superintendent to 12-year superintendent tenure
• Why “scared money can’t win” and how courage drives change
• Culture as the soil: competence, collaboration, trust, respect
• Showing up in schools to build relationships and trust
• Humility, presence and removing ego from leadership
• Family commitment and season-based support at home
• Owning the mirror and taking responsibility for outcomes
• Collaboration over competition with neighboring districts
• Leader vs authority and how influence beats titles
This conversation is a powerful reminder that authority can force compliance, but leadership earns followership—even without a title. JR’s story challenges us to choose courage over comfort, collaboration over competition, and humility over ego.
If you’re leading through resistance, navigating a tough team, or trying to rebuild trust in a skeptical culture, you now have a clear framework to act on today: show up consistently, build trust intentionally, own outcomes, and lead with conviction.
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow Unpack Leadership, share it with a colleague who needs it, and leave us a review. Tell us—what’s the one culture shift you’re committing to make this week?
Until next time, keep unpacking what leadership really requires.
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Good morning, everyone.
Ron Harvey here, the VicePresident, Chief Operating
Officer for Global CourseStrategies and Consulting, a
leadership firm based out ofColumbia, South Carolina.
Been in business since 2013.
Love what we do about helpingleaders become more effective at
taking care of their workforceand getting things done
effectively and respectfully.
But today I always pause and dobring a guest on our unpack with
(00:44):
Ron Harvey.
And I love it because we don'thave any questions in advance.
We promise to talk aboutleadership.
We promise to have fun and wepromise to keep it really brief
for you so you stay with us forthe whole show.
So I'm excited to invite a goodfriend and a guest.
I've been knowing him for yearsand watched him, you know, over
time continue to do great workin our area.
(01:05):
And I'll let him tell you who heis and what he does.
I won't steal any of histhunder, but I'm excited.
We've been to breakfast andfamilies are connected.
So it's a friend, it's acolleague, it's a peer, and it's
someone that that I listen andwatch, that also I think listens
and watch what I do.
So we collaborate a lot on beingsuccessful and we're supporters
of each other.
So uh JR, man, thank you forsaying yes.
(01:26):
Uh thank you for coming on theshow.
Let me let me invite you to themicrophone, man.
And how do you want people toknow you?
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Well, Ron, first of all, I appreciate you having me
today.
Um, as you said earlier, uh, myname is J.R.
Green.
Uh, I consider myself to be anunemployed school
superintendent.
Uh actually I retired, Ron, uh,in June of 2024.
Um, and the thing about thesuperintendency, very often
(01:52):
people don't get to retire.
Uh, they retire you.
Um after after 12 years andserving as superintendent of
schools in Fairfield County, uh,and it was an absolutely
miraculous run.
Um, I decided it was time tomaybe transition uh to some
other things.
And very often people ask me, sojail, you were there for 12
(02:13):
years, uh, it was going so well.
Uh, why'd you decide to retire?
And my response is always, itwas going so well.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
That's how my decided doctor.
SPEAKER_03 (02:24):
And so I'm not gonna wait until it's not going well,
and they tell me that I have toleave.
And so uh, you know, I'm a30-year educator who just
wrapped up his career uh as aschool superintendent, but I was
a teacher and administrator andassistant principal and
principal and assistantsuperintendent.
So a very traditional route tothe superintendency.
(02:45):
And for those of us who may notbe from this area, you may not
know a lot about FairfieldCounty.
But prior to my arrival inFairfield County, it was really
the model of instability.
Uh, Fairfield County had had 12superintendents over a 20-year
period.
And so as you can see, they werechanging superintendents like
sides.
(03:06):
Um but but I was there for 12years, uh, and we did some
tremendous things to includehaving the first uh National
Blue Ribbon School ofExcellence, the first South
Carolina Teacher of the Year,the first national principal of
the year, and Dr.
Tracy Swilly, uh who's nowassistant superintendent in
Fairfair County Schools, but uhshe was the 2025 NASSP National
(03:31):
Principal of the Year.
And so I'm so proud of all thework that she has done.
And so, Ron, I even wrote a bookabout that journey called
Graveyard Blooming Garden.
Uh you can find it all over theplace, Amazon, you can get it on
bookbaby.com, uh, you can get iton my website, jr-green.com.
Uh, but really it kind ofdetails uh my leadership journey
(03:54):
in Fairfair County uh and how wetransform things there.
And just to give you a littleinsight, the name Graveyard, uh,
that comes from the fact thatDr.
Jim Rex, uh who was uh formerstate superintendent of the
year, uh referred to FairfairCounty as the graveyard for
superintendents.
Um and so state superintendentsaid that.
(04:17):
Uh, and so I wanted toacknowledge that maybe it was a
graveyard for superintendentback then, uh, but it isn't now.
And so it is a different place.
And so uh social time, Ron, Ilaunched Green Team Consultant,
uh, which is a firm that does uhleadership development,
executive coaching, uhprofessional development, um uh
(04:41):
and do you know lots of keynoteaddresses and public speaking.
Uh, and my most recent ventureis a very short, consistent
podcast uh called The MirrorMoment, uh, where I really kind
of outline these uh kind ofleadership snippets.
Um and you can see the mirrormoment on TikTok, Facebook,
(05:03):
LinkedIn, uh YouTube, uh host ofvarious mediums.
So uh I've been staying prettybusy, Ron, but uh excited about
the work.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
Yeah, I mean, and and JR, I mean, we're gonna
unpack a whole lot of that.
He gave us for y'all thatlisten, you know, I listen to
what people say, and I likewhat's the what's the question?
What you know, um, and and Ilove it, you know.
Good friends, JR does a greatjob in leadership um and and
doing well on matter.
Fact, his podcast in what placesthan mine.
I need to get busy.
Uh, you know, because I'm notI'm not on all those social
media platforms, you know, I'mold school, I'm on LinkedIn and
(05:35):
Facebook, and then you can findme on all the Apple products.
But JR is doing some good stuff,man, and and he does a lot of
what we do, a lot of the samework.
And and I say that for peoplethat are listening to this
podcast.
We're friends, we're notcompetitors.
If he can help me, he does.
If I can help him, I help him.
Um, there's enough business foreverybody.
So as you listen to thispodcast, I've always said that
if there is enough business inColumbia, South Carolina, or the
(05:58):
Midlands for sevenChick-fil-A's, there's
definitely enough business forme and JR to do business here in
Columbia.
So please stop destroying peoplethat you think are your
competition.
You know, keep them close toyou.
You never know when you'll needthem.
And that's why, you know, Ithought it was important for you
to be on a show, JR is and youhave fun.
Let's let's unpack though.
When you were brought in and itwas known as the graveyard, like
(06:19):
your career ended if you went toFairfield as a superintendent,
you know, 12 and 20 years.
It was a career ender.
What made you say yes, knowingthat you were walking into what
was considered a career ender?
What was it that was happeningthat many years ago for you that
made you even take that risk?
SPEAKER_03 (06:37):
You know, Ron, that's an interesting question.
And let me let me give you uh alittle background.
So I was an assistantsuperintendent in Chesterfield
County, and I was a part of uh acohort of uh of leaders
throughout the state called whothey considered to be kind of
up-and-coming educationalleaders.
(06:58):
Uh the cohort was called TEE,Tapping Executive Educators.
Uh, and they kind of handpickedpeople across the state who they
thought were kind of the nextgeneration.
Well, and it was a two-yearprogram.
Well, during one of oursessions, we did a case study,
and the case study was onFairfield County, uh, and around
(07:18):
how unstable and dysfunctionalthe system had had gotten.
Uh, and at that time, I said uhduring our meeting, I said, you
know what, man, I love to gothere.
And most of the people in thecourt were like, Man, you gotta
be crazy.
I mean, why would you love to dothat?
I mean, we're just talking abouthow unstable it is, and you say
(07:40):
you'd love to go there.
And really, my response was,well, just imagine how fulfilled
you'd be if you could go to asituation that was previously
unstable and create stability.
If you could go to some placethat was previously
dysfunctional and createsuccess.
So I love a challenge.
(08:01):
Well, I just kind of said it,Ron, but I didn't necessarily
know it would come to fruition.
Well, maybe a couple of yearslater, the opportunity came for
me to go to Fairfield County.
And as I said, that plea, thatseed had had already been
planted.
And I had a lot of people whotold me, JR, do not do it.
(08:22):
Wait for the next opportunity.
You have a bright career aheadof you.
I'm telling you, and I had lotsof people who go to the
graveyard, bro.
Don't go to the graveyard.
You should go, JR.
Uh, and I said, nope, no, I'mI'm going.
And quite honestly, Ron, I am aman who's guided by his faith
and not fear.
Uh, and so I knew that this iswhere God put me, and the
(08:44):
opportunities presented itself.
This is exactly uh where Ineeded to be.
Uh, and and the rest is history.
I, you know, I as I said, wewent from 12 superintendents in
20 years to me being there uhfor 12 years uh and leaving on
my own.
unknown (09:01):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
Uh, you know, a lot of my colleagues can't can't say
that, uh, and and it's nodisrespect to them, it's just
the nature of the work.
Uh very often uh you don't leavewhen you want to leave, you
leave when someone tells you youhave to leave.
Uh, but that wasn't the case forme.
I mean, I stayed wonderfulcommunity, wonderful school
(09:22):
board, wonderful students.
Um, and I used to say all thetime, if I could be the
superintendent of schools anywayin the work, it would have been
right there in Fairfield County.
Uh, and that's the only place Iserved as superintendent.
And Ron, I'll tell you, I hadopportunities uh to go other
places uh during that 12-yeartenure, uh, but I was committed
(09:44):
uh to showing that we could havestability in Fairfield County.
Uh, and as such, I decided I wasgonna retire right there.
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
So I want to unpack this for you.
I mean, you you you know, youplanted a seed, and for leaders
that are listening, you gottasee it before you do it.
That's the reality.
And you saw it way before youwere there, and it took, you
know, like I say, maybe threeyears later, but you saw it
three years in advance.
So I being that you planted thatseed, J.R., what did you start
(10:12):
doing to prepare for somethingthat wasn't gonna come for
another three years?
And patience is in there, andsome leaders are not patient,
they want it right now, today,and they don't want to wait and
they want to force their wayinto it.
What did you do over those threeyears after you planted that
seed?
SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
You know, Ron, I always tell leaders, bloom where
you plant it.
Okay.
Um, and don't necessarily worryabout the job you want, put your
focus on the job that you have.
Uh, and I'll tell you, uh, asassistant superintendent for
curriculum and instruction inChesterfield County, I tried to
(10:48):
be the absolute best leader Icould be.
I tried to do a job that wouldcause someone to notice me when
opportunity came about to becomea superintendent candidate.
Uh, and I think that's a that'sa mistake that sometimes leaders
make is they put so much focuson the job that they won't, they
(11:08):
forget about the job that theyhave.
Uh, and so I put my focus aroundon being the absolute best
assistant superintendent forcurriculum and instruction that
I could be.
I put my focus on creating asmany well-rounded experiences as
I absolutely could.
And I want to give a shout outto this individual, Dr.
Johnny Williams.
Uh, Dr.
Johnny Williams hired me asprincipal of Central High School
(11:32):
and hired me as assistantsuperintendent for curriculum
and instruction, and he reallycultivated and molded me to put
me in a position to be asuperintendent.
And and so very often peopledon't recognize how important it
is to have someone whocultivates uh your career.
(11:53):
And he was someone whoabsolutely did that.
And I had a lot of people alongthe way from Steve Wilson when I
was at Keenan High School to RonCowden uh when I was at Spring
Valley High School.
But I have been blessed, Ron,with people who have taken an
interest in growing my careerand not necessarily putting in
putting me in positions that canjust benefit them, but would
(12:17):
also benefit me.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Wow.
Wow.
I mean, and GR loving lovingyour conversation and so much to
unpack with you.
So you when you were assistantsuperintendent, what do you tell
leaders that's in that role thatwants to be a superintendent?
How do they show up to make surethey're supporting the person
that's the current leader whereyou are and doing a really good
job?
Because sometimes you can getcaught up and wanting that new
(12:41):
position that you don't do asgood of a job as you can for the
person you're working for that'scurrently holding the position
that you're interested in inanother location.
SPEAKER_03 (12:50):
So let me give a little context to uh to
Chesapeake County, and this isgonna make sense to you.
So Dr.
Dr.
Um Johnny Williams hired me asprincipal of Central High
School, uh, and I became thefirst black principal in the
history of the school.
And and when I got there, uh Ireally didn't know it at the
(13:12):
time, um, but it was a big dealwhen this young bow tie win
brother arrived.
I mean, it was quite thestarting.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
For those of y'all that watching the video, I don't
even know how to look at itright now.
He got a bow tie on.
That's all I have.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, both tie young guy.
SPEAKER_03 (13:32):
In fact, when I got there, there were many people
who said, Are you a Muslim?
Uh you in his bow tie.
I said, No, I'm a Methodist.
Uh, and so uh, so so so Dr.
Johnny Williams hired me asfirst black principal in the
history of Central High School.
Um, and that took some couragefrom him, let me tell you.
(13:52):
I mean, because he had a lot ofoptions other than hiring this
young bow tie win brother.
Uh, but he took a chance on me,uh, and we did tremendous things
at the school.
Well, fast forward four yearslater, Ron, he hires me as the
first black assistantsuperintendent for curriculum.
Well, really, the first blackassistant superintendent in the
(14:14):
history of ChesapeakeAccounting.
Let me let me say that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
So he hires me to be in charge of uh all of the
curriculum and instructionthroughout the district as
assistant superintendent, whichwas an absolutely bold move for
him.
Now, I had a lot of peopleduring my tenure as assistant
superintendent who would oftentell me, man, Dr.
William is using you.
(14:38):
He always put you out front todo this and he's putting you out
front to do that, and he'ssending you to this church and
he's sending you there.
And I say, Well, he better useme.
That's why he hired me.
Yeah.
I mean, what did you think hehired me for?
I say, so for any of you whocomplains about Dr.
William, let me remind you, Iwouldn't even be in Chesterfield
(15:00):
County if he didn't show thecourage to hire me first as a
principal and then as anassistant superintendent.
The first ever.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Let him use you.
Like let him.
SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
I love what you said, JR.
SPEAKER_02 (15:14):
He used you, and people are going to spend that
conversation, but you felt thathey, he better, he hired me, he
better put me up front.
And I say, for people that arelistening, JR, who's saying your
name in a room that you want toget in that's gonna be behind
you and push you out front.
You can use using or you can usepromoting.
What language are you using ofletting them use you to for you
(15:36):
to get better so you have anopportunity?
He took a risk, which means hehad confidence in being in that
and you had to trust him.
Can you speak to how much youtrusted him to even let him do
it?
SPEAKER_03 (15:46):
Oh, Ron, let me tell you, I I knew without a shadow
of a doubt, uh, that thisgentleman not only had the best
interest of the ChesapeakeCounty School District in the
forefront, but also my future.
Um, and so while some peoplesaid he was using me, he was
(16:06):
preparing me.
unknown (16:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (16:08):
And so by the time I got to Fairfield County, I had
been accustomed to engaging withthe community much more than
maybe other some other assistantsuperintendents.
I had been accustomed toengaging with the board maybe
more than some other assistantsuperintendents.
I remember, Ron, um, this isduring the the Great Recession,
(16:32):
where we had, oh man, I can'tremember what the deficit was,
but I remember we had to cut 41positions from the budget.
And Dr.
Williams said, Jay, I'm gonnaput you in charge of that.
Uh, so you you you need tofigure out how we cut that from
the budget.
Now, some people would say,well, man, you're giving me the
(16:53):
most difficult task, but itprepared me, Ron.
It prepared me to have some verydifficult conversations with
some people because now I gottafigure out how we trim millions
of dollars on the budget.
Yes, and so I didn't look at itas if he was using me, I looked
at it as if he was preparing me,yeah, preparing me for my next
(17:13):
job.
I mean, so yeah, yeah, he couldhave said, Well, I don't want to
put JR out there where he'sgonna do anything that's gonna
be controversial, that he'sgonna make everybody upset, that
he he could take it at my shine.
I mean, he wasn't worried aboutany of that.
I mean, he's very comfortable inwho he was.
Um, and quite honestly, Ron, hehe was preparing me to be a
superintendent.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
Yeah, I love it, J.R.
J.R.
You mentioned something I wantto unpack because oftentimes we
as we're looking for leadershipand we want to be successful,
and whether it's professional orpersonal in your life, you
didn't make it to those levelsand last for 12 years with no
controversy.
What do you tell leaders thatare listening, especially you
know, as we look at there'scontroversy everywhere for for
(17:54):
all reasons right now?
How do you help people staylevel-headed, stay positive,
stay effective, and effectivelymanage controversy?
SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
You know, Ron, I um I have a chapter in my book, uh,
it's titled Scared Money Can'tWin.
Yes.
And uh and I get that from uhsome of my uncles uh when they
used to gamble.
And as a young boy, I probablyhad no business there with them
gambling, but but I would bethere, listen to all the
(18:25):
stories.
You know, and one of theirstatements was always scared
money can't can't win.
Um and and what they were sayingwas, uh, and one of my brothers,
Ron, you can appreciate this,who is retired National Guard,
he's always telling me in themilitary, we say, JR, you can't
do a job if you're scared tolose a job.
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:45):
Um, and so so you have to do what's right and just
be faithful that it's going towork out.
Now, I tell leaders all thetime, Ron, that doesn't mean
that you won't get fired.
Yes.
Because you can do right andstill lose the job.
Now you can do that.
You can do everything right andlose a job, yes, and still get
fired.
So that doesn't mean that, butguess what?
(19:07):
You're gonna sleep good atnight.
Yeah.
Um, and and and if you are goodat what you do, other
opportunities will presentthemselves.
When I arrived in FairfieldCounty, I'll never forget I had
a meeting, one of my goodbuddies, the name of Tony
Armstrong, the name is TonyArmstrong, uh, and he and I did
some good work starting theGriffin Bowtie Club, me, him,
(19:28):
and a gentleman by the name ofVernie Kennedy.
And after my first boardmeeting, me and Tony, one of the
school board members and twoother individuals uh was sitting
outside for the meeting afterthe meeting.
Yes.
And uh and Tony, uh Tony toldme, he said, he said, uh, he
said, I'm gonna tell you, Doc,uh, you mess around and come to
(19:49):
Fairfair County and do somethingthat uh that people don't like,
they're gonna run you off.
Uh, you're not gonna last here.
And I said, Well, let me tellyou what, Tony.
If I do something that doesn'twork out, guess what?
But I'm just gonna do somethingelse because that didn't mean
that everything I do is gonna beright.
But I can tell you what, I'm notgonna sit back and be scared to
(20:09):
do anything because I'm scaredto lose the job.
If you're scared to do somethingwrong, you're never gonna do
anything right.
And so I always had thatphilosophy from day one line,
uh, that I'm guided by my faith,not by fear.
Uh, and I'm gonna do what Ithink is right and just let the
troops fall as they may.
Uh, and so as you said, I have II pushed down some paths that
(20:34):
some people would maybe shy awayfrom.
Uh, I might have rubbed somepeople the wrong way because I
tackled some issues that maybepeople didn't want to tackle.
Uh, but I think generallyspeaking, Ron, people have
respected my position because itnever came from a uh from a from
a place of of ill will.
Um it came from a genuine placeuh where we wanted uh to improve
(20:58):
as a system, as a state.
Um I I pushed families, um, Ipush teachers, I push
administrators, I push the statesuperintendent of education, I
push my boy, I want them to pushme.
Um as they say, I ain't sharp asiron, Ron.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, you push them and youand you, and I want everybody to
hear what you're saying, JR,because you pushed them and you
wanted to be pushed.
You always strive to be better.
How did you manage the fact thatyou were the first um and you
were chosen and you wereselected and you went to the
graveyard and you stayed therefor 12 years?
JR, I've always, ever since Imet you years ago, and I met you
(21:37):
just through counterparts, no,two the first question is how
did you manage to stay humbleknowing that that people were
watching and you had to get itright?
How did you stay humble?
SPEAKER_03 (21:50):
Yeah, Ron, first of all, I'm telling you, Doc, a lot
of prayers.
Uh I I you you you gotta stay inprayer there.
Um, and and Ron, it was uh itwas a family commitment.
I talk about that in my book aswell.
Uh my wife and my childrenalways made sure I kept things
(22:10):
in perspective.
And I am a girl dad.
Uh, and in fact, I just spoke touh one of my daughters, Jamal,
who's uh presenting at aconference in Australia.
Uh so it's it's about 10:30Australia time, but she called
me today just to talk about whatshe was doing.
But I have three daughters,Jamal, Janelle, and Jaycia.
(22:31):
Uh Janelle is a softwareengineer in in Bentonsville,
Arkansas, at Walmart.
Uh Jamal works for a companycalled NACO.
Uh, and and Jaycia is athird-year student at Clemson
University, uh, pursuing acareer as a dermatologist.
Um, and so it was always afamily commitment, Ron.
(22:53):
And my children always made sureI kept things in perspective.
Now, I acknowledge uh that itcame with sacrifice, and so my
children have probably visitedmore churches and went to more
meetings and more games and uhand more things that were part
of the job as maybe they wantedto.
Uh, but they understood that uhit's a part of what our family
(23:17):
does.
And so, Ron, I I think withprayer and the fact that I had a
family uh who always kept megrounded uh was essential uh to
me keeping things inperspective.
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
Yeah, I love it.
You bring in the family, you'rebringing the patience, you bring
in the humble, you talk about,you know, hey, you can't do a
job if you're worried aboutlosing a job.
SPEAKER_03 (23:37):
Ron, let me say this before you go to the next thing
because I don't want to leaveout the most important person
out of that whole equation,which was my wife, uh Tony
Green.
Uh I talked about my girl, butbut I give my wife immense
credit because in many instancesshe had to carry a heavier load.
Yes.
Uh, you know, there were manytimes I was worried about
putting out fires and dealingwith other people's children and
(24:01):
other issues, and and my wifehad to carry a heavier load
because I wasn't there as much.
So uh let me let me give my wifea shout out who uh and another
bit of irony, Ron, at the timethat I accepted a position in in
Fairfield County, my wife was auh a DBA dollar-based analyst
(24:25):
with VC Summer Nuclear Plant.
So she was already working inFairfield County, and so that's
when I knew this thing is reallyall coming together because now
we can be in Fairfield County.
My wife isn't far from her job,the children are there together.
Uh, it was just uh the rightfit.
And so shout outs to my wife, uhuh who did a yeoman's job uh in
(24:49):
helping to navigate uh thisfamily uh and take care of my
children while I was out takingcare of someone else's.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Yes, yes, and thank you for for doing that and
keeping both of us out oftrouble, you know, because you
know you'll be at work, whichyou know, y'all ain't mentioned
me.
I heard them girls' names, butyou forgot about me, girl dad.
You know, so I'm glad youcleaned that up to help both of
us out.
And but you said somethingthat's for all people that are
are professionals and yourspouse is professional, people
want work-life balance.
I said sometimes your spousewill carry a heavier load than
(25:18):
you will, and sometimes you it'snever 50-50 all the time.
So if you're looking for 50-50,you're probably gonna have some
some very uncomfortableconversations because it's not
really 50-50.
There are times when JR justtold you that he he couldn't be
there when he needed to bethere, wanted to be there, and
he was taking care of otherpeople's kids, which means his
wife had to not feel guilty, notfeel angry or resentful that she
(25:41):
had to do some of the stuff henormally would do so she can
support him.
That's support all the wayaround.
So, as you're listening, makesure you bring your family into
the fold, a part of thedecisions, the work that you're
doing, make it a family affair.
It's important, and he tells youthat's what he did.
That's what I do.
So if you listen to us, make ita family affair.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Ronald, I'll tell you without a shadow of a doubt,
uh, my tenure in FairfieldCounty would not have been
successful without thecommitment of my wife and
children.
Yeah, it it just absolutelywould not.
I could not have done it withoutthe commitment of my wife and
children, without the sacrificeof my wife and children.
(26:21):
Without the sacrifice of my wifeand children.
And so um if if if if if my wifeand children aren't on board,
then there's always tensionthere.
Yes.
You follow me?
I mean, I'm not in the rightkind of space.
I mean, there's always tensionthere, but but my wife was was
supported 100% and accepted thefact um that this is the
(26:44):
profession with which I havechosen, uh, and she is going to
be there uh to support herhusband.
And my children uh felt theexact same way.
You know, Ron, when when I tookthe job in Fairfield, my my
twins were rising sixth graders.
And so they were previously atPontiac Elementary School
(27:04):
because they were going toschool in Richmond too.
Um and when I came home and Isaid, I got good news, Daddy has
a new job.
Uh, dad's gonna besuperintendent of schools in
Fairfield County, and they wereexcited, oh yeah, as a
sixth-grade kid would.
Yeah, uh, I said, but it was atwist.
Um, now you have to go to a newschool.
(27:25):
Uh now you'll be going to schoolin Fairfield County because
we're getting ready to move toFairfield County.
Well, in Richmond too, sixthgrade is middle school.
Yeah, in Fairfield, sixth gradeis elementary school.
So elementary goes case six inFairfield, middle school is
(27:45):
seven, eight.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (27:46):
So my girls found out they were gonna be in
elementary school for anotheryear, they were devastated.
So we're not going to middleschool, we're gonna be in
elementary school for anotheryear.
Uh that would they didn't likethat.
All right.
Um, but but they sucked it up,yeah.
Uh and then another another yearin elementary school, uh, but
(28:07):
they did well.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
Yeah, they're resilient, but but you you're
transparent, you talk about it,and you don't just you know walk
away from it.
Yeah, I want I want to I want topivot a little bit.
So you talk about the familyrelationship.
I want uh can you share in yourjourney uh of this 12 years, you
know, doing a phenomenal job?
Well, let me back up.
There's a question I want to askthat you you said that that
(28:31):
Fairfair had great talent beforeyou got there.
What did you do, JR, to bringthe talent out of those people?
Because it's not like youreplaced the whole district.
What did you do to for people toget on board?
Because it was already there andyou brought it out.
What did you do to bring outbecause it's it went from
graveyard to destination placenow?
(28:52):
What did you do to let peopleshow up for real and change
their whole mindset and do abetter job?
And it had always been there.
SPEAKER_03 (29:00):
You know, Ron, you you you just spoke to the last
chapter in my book, Graveyard ofBloom and Garden, where where I
really outlined the fact thatthe greatness existed long
before I got here.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
I just helped to facilitate what was already
here.
And so I didn't I didn't bringanything here.
Um it was already, it was herewhen I when I arrived.
The one thing that we focused onfrom day one, Ron, was culture.
The the culture had becomedysfunctional, the culture had
become toxic, and and as I sayvery often, you can go get the
(29:34):
best seeds from around theworld.
Yeah, premier seeds from allover the world and put them in
bad soil, and it won't bearfruit.
And that's what had existed,Ron.
We had a toxic culture, and Itell people that negative toxic
culture is just like barrensalt.
(29:56):
Yes, you can put greatness init, but it it it it won't
mature, it won't grade, it won'tit won't bear fruit.
And so from day one, my focuswas on culture.
You know, one of my mirrormoments, I mirror moments, I
talk about how culture trumpsstrategy all day and twice on
Sunday, it eats strategy forbreakfast.
(30:18):
Yes, and so from day one, wesaid everything we do, and I
want you to reflect on it, itwill contribute to a culture of
competence, collaboration,trust, and respect.
Everything we do in thisdistrict will contribute to
establishing a culture ofcompetence, collaboration,
trust, and respect.
And it doesn't happen overnight,but over time, you'll see the
(30:42):
culture begin to shift.
And for any leader, if you wantto identify any one thing that
you can do, Ron, to transformyour organization, I tell you
put your focus on culture.
SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
Yes.
Yeah, I love that you're sayingit.
You know, I I build a frameworkand people you know that follow
me, I always make a statement,people always matter.
What did you what did you do tomake sure that those people not
that you just said it, becauseI'm sure 12 superintendents over
20 years have said it but didn'tdeliver on it.
What did you actually do todeliver on it?
(31:17):
You personally, you know, so soso what did you walk and do it?
Can you show the audience thethings you started intentionally
doing consistently?
SPEAKER_03 (31:25):
Yeah, the first thing Ron is is showing up.
Um, you know, what if Dr.
Swillie said, she jokingly said,you know, when I when I first uh
I hired Dr.
Swillie uh as during my secondyear.
So uh I hired her my second yearas superintendent.
So she had been there 11 yearswhen I retired.
But she said when she firstarrived there, uh she had a code
(31:48):
word for when the superintendentis in the building.
Yes, and so when people wouldsee me, I don't know what the
coach, he didn't tell me whatthe code word was.
Let's say the code word wasmarshmallow.
I mean, so that means Dr.
Green's here.
But she said, Dr.
Green, you were here so much.
I told him, just forget aboutthat code word.
I mean, don't worry about that.
I mean, because he heard it.
He'll say that all day, he'sgonna figure it out soon.
(32:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He here all the time.
So don't let's don't even worryabout that code word.
So, Ron, number one, was showingup.
Um, and and and Javonda Brown,who who was my executive
assistant, would tell you um,most days I didn't even come to
the office until I don't know,maybe nine, ten o'clock.
I mean, I but I started my daysout in school somewhere.
(32:32):
Um, and so people got accustomedto seeing me, people develop
relationships with me, peoplebegan to trust me.
And Ron, I tell people you can'thave trust without relationship.
Nope.
So anyone who says that, oh, Idon't know why the people don't
trust me, it's because you don'thave a relationship with them,
(32:53):
they don't know you.
And so I'd go to schools, Ron.
I'd visit classrooms, talk tokids, I talk to teachers, I go
to the cafeteria, what y'allcooking in here today?
I'm coming back to get mesomething to eat.
I mean, I'm which I mean, I'mI'm I'm everywhere.
Okay, and so my presence was wasfelt everywhere, and it was all
about developing relationshipswith people.
(33:15):
And when people haverelationships with you and they
trust you, Ryan, they'll runthrough brick walls for you.
Yes, and it won't necessarily beyour vision, it'll be our
vision.
Uh, you know, we weren't weweren't big on having these
mission and and and missionstatements.
I mean, these long convolutedthings.
(33:36):
Uh, we had two things thatpeople really embraced when I
was there.
One was our motto, and our mottosaid that excellence through
teamwork.
That's how we're gonna getthere.
And I wanted everybody torecognize, Ron, that I won't do
it, school board won't do it,the teachers won't do it, the
(33:57):
parents won't do it, thestudents won't do it, the
deacons won't do it, thepastors.
It'll take all of us to do it.
And if we are what we say wewant to be, it'll take the
collaborative uh efforts of usall.
And our other thing was ourslogan, Ron, was recognizing
that we were on a journey.
So we said we were going fromordinary to extraordinary.
unknown (34:17):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (34:18):
And I and I reminded people that this was a journey
with no destination.
We are constantly traveling,we're constantly pushing, never
beginning uh getting complacent.
And so um the entire cultureshift required that I I reduce
(34:38):
myself, Ron.
Too often people say, Well, I'mthe leader, you need to lift me
up.
You want me to treat my ego?
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
Come on, man.
I work all the superintendent,got this doctoral degree.
I got all these years,especially.
They hired me.
Don't you know they hired me?
They brought me because y'allwere broke.
You want me to you want me tolike treat my ego like for real,
man?
Come on, bro.
SPEAKER_03 (35:01):
Now it's not about you, bro.
I I remember one day I waspulling up to one of the schools
and and one of the monitors, uh,security monitors, she told me,
she said, you know what, Dr.
Green?
I'm always amazed that wheneveryou come, you don't ever worry
about where you have to park,you don't ever want us to save
you anything, you just parkanywhere that's available.
(35:24):
And I said, Yeah, I mean, Ithat's what service is about.
Leadership isn't about beingserved, it's about it's about
serving others.
Uh, and so I've always had thatmindset with my ego that
bothered me.
You know, Ron, quite honestly,when I go places, you can ask
anyone this now, yeah.
I don't ever introduce myself asDr.
(35:46):
J.R.
Green.
Nope.
You know, it's you know, yeah, Idon't know.
My name is J.R.
Green.
Um, and if if you ask, did Iearn a PhD?
Uh I'll I'll I'll I'll tell youthat, but that doesn't that
(36:06):
doesn't define who I am.
I mean, and quite honestly,nobody cares.
You know, so I'm just that bigego guy.
SPEAKER_02 (36:15):
J, how did you how did you because this is, I mean,
a lot uh, you know, you walkinto an organization that that
everybody has said that thepeople you you fail there
because people don't cometogether, people don't trust,
organization was broken, whichmeans they're saying the people
are broken.
How do you walk in withoutmaking that judgment and come to
that conclusion and you startlooking down on people?
How did you not do that?
(36:37):
Because that was important thatyou saw the value versus the
brokenness.
SPEAKER_03 (36:42):
So, so Ron, first of all, I already had some insight
into Fairfield County.
Remember, I talked about Dr.
Steve Wilson, um, who was whohad hired me as assistant
principal at Keenan High School.
He was a graduate of McCorreyListon High School, which is in
Fairfield County.
He's from Fairfield.
Uh, in fact, we named the uh thecafeteria at Macquarie Liston
(37:06):
after his mother, who's thecafeteria manager there for oh,
30 or 40 years.
Uh, and so I'd already known alittle bit about Fairfield uh
before I arrived, and I knew therich history that existed there
over many years.
And as much as people may lookat the recent tenure or prior to
my arrival and talking about allthe superintendent turnover,
(37:29):
there was a lot of historyoutside of that, whatever that
20-year period was.
So, Ron, I went inunderstooding, uh understanding
the greatness that alreadyexisted there, and I understood
the assignment.
You know, Ron, leaders who sayit's the people's fault that the
culture isn't bad, they'remissing that the culture is bad,
(37:52):
they're missing them up.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (37:55):
Anytime a leader looks at an organization and
they are critical of theorganization, you gotta first
start being critical of theleadership.
And so the man in the mirror.
The man in the mirror.
You gotta first start looking atyourselves.
And so, Ron, anything thatexisted in the district that
(38:16):
wasn't where I thought it neededto be, I took ownership of that.
Yeah, that was myresponsibility.
When I first moved there, peoplesaid, Man, the system is so
unstable.
Do you have any apprehensionabout taking your children out
of school in Richmond II andputting them in school in
Fairfield?
I said, Well, I'm thesuperintendent.
(38:38):
If there's a problem with thesystem, who do I have to blame?
Okay, I absolutely not.
If I'm the superintendent andI'm telling you the other
problem with the system, who amI gonna blame?
So, no, I have absolutely noapprehension about it because I
have the responsibility to makesure that their experience, in
(38:58):
addition to all the otherchildren's experience, is a
world-class experience.
And so taking ownership, Ron, Ithink is the key, uh, and not
placing blame on someone else.
You know, it always baffles mewhen I hear leaders say, well,
the people weren't ready forchange.
The people weren't ready forchange.
(39:20):
Whose responsibility is it toget the people ready for change?
I mean, who it's it's yourresponsibility to get the people
ready for change, or the peopleweren't ready for what I was I
was presenting.
Well, it's your responsibilityto cultivate it.
I mean, so it all comes back towhat your responsibility as a
leader, and I own every bit ofthat, Rob.
(39:44):
I told the school board youcould never hold me more
accountable than I hold myself.
SPEAKER_02 (39:49):
Wow, I love it, man.
I I love it.
You know, I'm sitting here, youknow, we're we're we're doing a
debate this Friday coming up,you know, just invited you and
your spouse.
Um, but I'm thinking I Here at20 in 2026, and we get ready to
do it in October to have you onthere because what you're
sharing is what we speak to.
Um, you know, real, fun,enjoyable.
But how do you hold yourselfaccountable and no one can hold
(40:11):
you to a higher standard?
I want to be able to wrap up forus, but you spoke to something
that was super important forevery leader that's listening.
How valuable was it for you torecognize and build
relationships for you to besuccessful?
You talked about the family partof professionally.
How important was it for you tobuild professional
relationships?
I mean, you're saying names, youremember who they are, where
(40:33):
they were, dates, and all thatstuff.
How important were relationshipsto your success?
SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
You know, it was violent, Ron.
I I, you know, I developed anetwork of colleagues across
this country whom I could Icould call on at any point in
time, who I could bounce ideasoff at any point in time, who
could call on me as in at anypoint in time.
And I always say, Ron, you saidsomething that was profound, uh,
(41:01):
that some people have havechallenged me on, but I've told
them, folks, none of you all aremy competitors.
SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:09):
I'm not in competition with with Randall
Gary and Spartanberg.
I wasn't in competition withBaron Davis in Richmond 2 or
Sean Fauston in Orangeburg.
I'm not in competition withanybody.
My goal is for all of us to bethe absolute best that we can
be, and we got to change thatparadigm.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:29):
Because when you feel as if you're in competition
with someone, you see it as azero-sum game.
SPEAKER_00 (41:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:36):
You know, I was I was at the Career Center in FLC
because I'm helping them withsome work there, uh, and I was
talking to the Career Centerdirector, Dr.
Cleve Pilot, about the um thegaming team.
And they participated in acompetition at Benedict this
weekend, and uh he had a kidcome in first and a kid to come
(41:56):
in third.
And so we were just celebratinguh the good work that they had
done.
But then we talked about thefact that when Orangeburg County
School District was trying todevelop a gaming program, they
came to visit our gaming lab.
SPEAKER_00 (42:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (42:11):
And so uh Sean called me, he sent some
representatives down fromOrangeburg, they came and
visited.
We gave them all the informationabout how we set it up, where we
purchased it, the whole, thewhole nine yards.
Uh and Sean jokingly said, Well,JR, I told my people that my lab
better be better than JR's labin Fairfield.
But I know what he was sayingjokingly, but the point is this,
(42:32):
Ron, if I see Sean as acompetitor, then I don't want to
share that with Sean.
Absolutely.
Because I don't want Sean to dowhat I'm doing.
I don't want Sean to be betterthan I am.
When I started the StemberlyCollege Academy in Fairfield
County back in 2012, when we hadstudents to earn an associate
degree in science, I mean thatpeople were really impressed by
that.
(42:53):
Well, my colleague who was inBatesburg at the time, who's now
in Spartanburg, Randall Garrett,he said, Jay, I'm gonna send a
team of people to Fairfieldbecause we want to replicate
what you're doing.
We want to do that in inBatesburg.
I said, absolutely.
Send them on down.
So Ron, you're right.
We gotta we gotta get out ofthis mindset that it's a zero,
it's a zero sum game.
(43:15):
Folks, there's enough greatnessfor everybody.
And I don't, I don't have to, Idon't have to put you down and
lift me up.
I don't have to stand on you inorder to stand me up.
I mean, so um I I I've neverI've never adopted that kind of
mentality uh because I thinkit's counterproductive.
Yeah, we can we can have acompetitive spirit where
(43:37):
everybody wants to make everyoneelse better, but I'm not trying
to be better than you becauseyou know, I one of my buddies
who tried to challenge me onthis, he said, Well, JR, uh, I
mean, competition is good.
I mean, because you know,competition makes you better and
makes me better.
And I said, Well, competitivespirit is good, but I don't want
(44:00):
to see it like I see a footballgame.
Yeah where I gotta have morepoints than you at the end of
the quarter.
Because if my goal is to havemore points than you, I don't
want to make you better becausethat's gonna cause you to get
more points than me.
See, if we just have acompetitive spirit, I want you
to get as many points as you canget, and I want to get as many
points as I can get.
(44:20):
That's the difference, okay?
That's the difference betweenbeing a competition.
SPEAKER_02 (44:24):
Yes, I love it, and and I say that, and I hope
everybody's listened to that.
In reality, we we both practiceit.
At the end of the day, I wantyou to be successful.
You want me to be successful,we're supporting each other, and
I think that we got to bereally, really mindful when it
becomes detrimental to bedestructive.
Um, that that we it's a zero-sumgame, and I think there's enough
for all of us to be to bereally, really good at what
we're doing and make thecommunity better.
(44:46):
Our company got in businessbecause someone took three days
out of their company to show mywife and I how to run our
company.
We had no clue.
And we flew to Washington State,and I can tell you that she
walked us through every singlething and put us in front of her
clients to let us see how tonavigate and have conversations.
And people say, Where did youlearn it?
I say, someone shut theircompany down for three days and
brought us in.
(45:06):
And and and so, why do I giveback so much and why do I think
we got to get there?
Everything that I know, JR, Iwas not born with any of it.
Someone poured into, investedinto, educated, gave to,
mentored, sponsored, advocated,championed everything that I
know, I got it from somewhere.
(45:28):
I wasn't born with any of thisknowledge.
And I think we got to get pastthe point of because you know it
makes me less good.
I think we're both great.
We can stand beside each otheron the stage and deliver
something totally different,even though we do the same
thing, because it's yourfingerprint.
So for those of you that listen,stop destroying people for you
to feel good about yourself orfor you to feel like you're
gonna be better.
(45:48):
Learn to collaborate.
I actually use a word calledco-opetition, which means
cooperate with your competition.
SPEAKER_03 (45:55):
I like that, Ron.
I'm I'm gonna steal that one,bro.
SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
I'm gonna steal that one.
Cooperate with them and make itmake the world a better place
for all of us.
JR, as we come to a close, man,you've shared a lot of great
stuff, man.
It's been fun, it's beenenjoyable, you've been
transparent.
What would you share withleaders that you want them to
walk away with?
And when you finish that, tellus how to get in touch with you
and where we can find your book.
Give me two things, and not evena number, whatever that number
is, what is what is what wouldyou like to leave them with as
(46:20):
we wrap up?
SPEAKER_03 (46:22):
You know, Ron, I talk about this in, I don't
know, my maybe third or fourthum uh mirror moment episode.
And I think it's one thing thathas resonated with me over time
that I want all leaders toreally reflect upon.
Uh, and it's something that Iheard from Simon Sate many, many
years ago that says, Are you aleader or are you an authority?
(46:44):
And and I think too often peopleconfuse the two run.
Yes, I think they thinkleadership is about having
authority over people, it'sabout being the boss and telling
people what to do, but theyaren't leading anyone.
Uh, and so everybody has toself-reflect about what space
(47:05):
you'll really you'll reallyoccupy.
Because if you're simply anauthority, people will do what
you say to comply to keep theirjobs.
Yes, but but people are notgonna comply to greatness, yes.
You will lead people togreatness, but nobody's gonna
comply to greatness, and youaren't gonna scare anyone into
greatness.
Leaders, people will run down,they'll run through, they'll
(47:29):
climb over, they'll do anythingin the world because they don't
want to disappoint you, and andthey feel as if the vision that
you outlined is not just yourvision, it is their vision.
Um, and and so how do we go fromthat space of simply being
authority as people who havebeen who have been placed in
(47:49):
charge to now being leaders,Ron, who people follow even if
you had no title.
And that's when you know youhave reached that point.
I don't need to tell anyone thatI'm the leader.
I didn't, I didn't run.
I didn't need to go anywhere andsay, hey, hey, hey, wait a
minute, I'm in charge.
Hey, I'm I'm superintendent, I'mI'm the chair, I'm the you don't
(48:12):
need to do that.
All right, because if really youin charge, then you don't need
to tell anybody.
All right, and so that that'sthe one bit I leave you with,
Ron, is that let's focus onbeing leaders and not simply
authorities.
As it relates to where you canreach me, Ron.
Uh, as I said earlier, uh I havea website uh that really
outlines the work of Green TeamConsultant, uh Jr-green.com.
(48:38):
Uh my number is 803-261-9113.
Uh, you can reach me onLinkedIn, uh, you can reach me
on Facebook.
Um, you can call me, you canemail me at uh JRG466642 at
gmail.com.
(48:59):
Uh so uh excited about uh thenext phase of my professional
journey, Ron.
I mean it was great being asuperintendent for 12 years,
great being an educator for 30years, uh, but I'm just as
excited about my work aroundleadership and development and
speaking and all the otherthings that we engage around uh
in my role as CEO of Green TeamConsultant.
SPEAKER_02 (49:23):
Yeah, G.
I think you just made the stagebigger.
Um and I tell people all thetime, you know, with the work
that I do, people offer all thetime, hey man, you want to be
the CEO or you want to come intothe company?
And I and I said, no, the stageis much bigger.
I want to be able to help morethan just one.
And I'm excited to have you inthe field with us, and and
you're gonna challenge us to getbetter, and we're gonna and
we're gonna challenge you to getbetter and do great work and
hold each other accountable.
(49:43):
You know, that's what makes upour community.
So I'm excited that you came onthe show, excited that that
you're in the space where we arenow.
Um, and for all you that arelistening, I mean, JR does good
work.
I mean, he has a good book outthere, and he's real.
He gave you all this contactinformation.
Reach out to him.
If you use his services, by allmeans, um reach out, you know,
and ask questions and figure outwho he is and what he's doing
and what you're trying to getdone.
(50:05):
And for all you that arewatching and listening and have
been with us, thank y'all forjoining us on Unpack with Ron
Harvey.
You know how to find me.
I'm on two primary sources is myemail.
You can always reach me atrharvey at gcs.consulting.
Um, and you can always find meon LinkedIn on the two primary
sources.
I put stuff on Facebook, butprofessionally, uh email me
directly or check check out ourwebsite um and you'll find
(50:27):
everything about us there.
But until next time, Jerry and RJR and I are really happy that
y'all stayed with us.
Hopefully, you have fun with us.
Um, and by the time you listento this, we will be doing other
great things and we'll probablybe the spoken a couple places.
If you need a speaker, reach outto either one of us.
Um, we're excited about it.
We're business owners.
We love to have an opportunityto earn your business.
We don't feel obligated that youbring us in, but we love the
(50:49):
opportunity to be at the tablefor the conversation.
Um, we'd love to earn yourbusiness and help make this
community a better place for allof us.
Until next time, Jarr, J.R.
and I will sign off and telly'all thank you for being with
us.
Until next time, uh with Unpackwith Ron Harvey.
Y'all have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_01 (51:04):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks Sound Advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are or the people youserve.
(51:26):
Because people always matter.
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Good morning, everyone.
Ron Harvey here, the VicePresident, Chief Operating
Officer for Global CourseStrategies and Consulting, a
leadership firm based out ofColumbia, South Carolina.
Been in business since 2013.
Love what we do about helpingleaders become more effective at
taking care of their workforceand getting things done
effectively and respectfully.
But today I always pause and dobring a guest on our unpack with
(00:44):
Ron Harvey.
And I love it because we don'thave any questions in advance.
We promise to talk aboutleadership.
We promise to have fun and wepromise to keep it really brief
for you so you stay with us forthe whole show.
So I'm excited to invite a goodfriend and a guest.
I've been knowing him for yearsand watched him, you know, over
time continue to do great workin our area.
(01:05):
And I'll let him tell you who heis and what he does.
I won't steal any of histhunder, but I'm excited.
We've been to breakfast andfamilies are connected.
So it's a friend, it's acolleague, it's a peer, and it's
someone that that I listen andwatch, that also I think listens
and watch what I do.
So we collaborate a lot on beingsuccessful and we're supporters
of each other.
So uh JR, man, thank you forsaying yes.
(01:26):
Uh thank you for coming on theshow.
Let me let me invite you to themicrophone, man.
And how do you want people toknow you?
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Well, Ron, first of all, I appreciate you having me
today.
Um, as you said earlier, uh, myname is J.R.
Green.
Uh, I consider myself to be anunemployed school
superintendent.
Uh actually I retired, Ron, uh,in June of 2024.
Um, and the thing about thesuperintendency, very often
(01:52):
people don't get to retire.
Uh, they retire you.
Um after after 12 years andserving as superintendent of
schools in Fairfield County, uh,and it was an absolutely
miraculous run.
Um, I decided it was time tomaybe transition uh to some
other things.
And very often people ask me, sojail, you were there for 12
(02:13):
years, uh, it was going so well.
Uh, why'd you decide to retire?
And my response is always, itwas going so well.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
That's how my decided doctor.
SPEAKER_03 (02:24):
And so I'm not gonna wait until it's not going well,
and they tell me that I have toleave.
And so uh, you know, I'm a30-year educator who just
wrapped up his career uh as aschool superintendent, but I was
a teacher and administrator andassistant principal and
principal and assistantsuperintendent.
So a very traditional route tothe superintendency.
(02:45):
And for those of us who may notbe from this area, you may not
know a lot about FairfieldCounty.
But prior to my arrival inFairfield County, it was really
the model of instability.
Uh, Fairfield County had had 12superintendents over a 20-year
period.
And so as you can see, they werechanging superintendents like
sides.
(03:06):
Um but but I was there for 12years, uh, and we did some
tremendous things to includehaving the first uh National
Blue Ribbon School ofExcellence, the first South
Carolina Teacher of the Year,the first national principal of
the year, and Dr.
Tracy Swilly, uh who's nowassistant superintendent in
Fairfair County Schools, but uhshe was the 2025 NASSP National
(03:31):
Principal of the Year.
And so I'm so proud of all thework that she has done.
And so, Ron, I even wrote a bookabout that journey called
Graveyard Blooming Garden.
Uh you can find it all over theplace, Amazon, you can get it on
bookbaby.com, uh, you can get iton my website, jr-green.com.
Uh, but really it kind ofdetails uh my leadership journey
(03:54):
in Fairfair County uh and how wetransform things there.
And just to give you a littleinsight, the name Graveyard, uh,
that comes from the fact thatDr.
Jim Rex, uh who was uh formerstate superintendent of the
year, uh referred to FairfairCounty as the graveyard for
superintendents.
Um and so state superintendentsaid that.
(04:17):
Uh, and so I wanted toacknowledge that maybe it was a
graveyard for superintendentback then, uh, but it isn't now.
And so it is a different place.
And so uh social time, Ron, Ilaunched Green Team Consultant,
uh, which is a firm that does uhleadership development,
executive coaching, uhprofessional development, um uh
(04:41):
and do you know lots of keynoteaddresses and public speaking.
Uh, and my most recent ventureis a very short, consistent
podcast uh called The MirrorMoment, uh, where I really kind
of outline these uh kind ofleadership snippets.
Um and you can see the mirrormoment on TikTok, Facebook,
(05:03):
LinkedIn, uh YouTube, uh host ofvarious mediums.
So uh I've been staying prettybusy, Ron, but uh excited about
the work.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
Yeah, I mean, and and JR, I mean, we're gonna
unpack a whole lot of that.
He gave us for y'all thatlisten, you know, I listen to
what people say, and I likewhat's the what's the question?
What you know, um, and and Ilove it, you know.
Good friends, JR does a greatjob in leadership um and and
doing well on matter.
Fact, his podcast in what placesthan mine.
I need to get busy.
Uh, you know, because I'm notI'm not on all those social
media platforms, you know, I'mold school, I'm on LinkedIn and
(05:35):
Facebook, and then you can findme on all the Apple products.
But JR is doing some good stuff,man, and and he does a lot of
what we do, a lot of the samework.
And and I say that for peoplethat are listening to this
podcast.
We're friends, we're notcompetitors.
If he can help me, he does.
If I can help him, I help him.
Um, there's enough business foreverybody.
So as you listen to thispodcast, I've always said that
if there is enough business inColumbia, South Carolina, or the
(05:58):
Midlands for sevenChick-fil-A's, there's
definitely enough business forme and JR to do business here in
Columbia.
So please stop destroying peoplethat you think are your
competition.
You know, keep them close toyou.
You never know when you'll needthem.
And that's why, you know, Ithought it was important for you
to be on a show, JR is and youhave fun.
Let's let's unpack though.
When you were brought in and itwas known as the graveyard, like
(06:19):
your career ended if you went toFairfield as a superintendent,
you know, 12 and 20 years.
It was a career ender.
What made you say yes, knowingthat you were walking into what
was considered a career ender?
What was it that was happeningthat many years ago for you that
made you even take that risk?
SPEAKER_03 (06:37):
You know, Ron, that's an interesting question.
And let me let me give you uh alittle background.
So I was an assistantsuperintendent in Chesterfield
County, and I was a part of uh acohort of uh of leaders
throughout the state called whothey considered to be kind of
up-and-coming educationalleaders.
(06:58):
Uh the cohort was called TEE,Tapping Executive Educators.
Uh, and they kind of handpickedpeople across the state who they
thought were kind of the nextgeneration.
Well, and it was a two-yearprogram.
Well, during one of oursessions, we did a case study,
and the case study was onFairfield County, uh, and around
(07:18):
how unstable and dysfunctionalthe system had had gotten.
Uh, and at that time, I said uhduring our meeting, I said, you
know what, man, I love to gothere.
And most of the people in thecourt were like, Man, you gotta
be crazy.
I mean, why would you love to dothat?
I mean, we're just talking abouthow unstable it is, and you say
(07:40):
you'd love to go there.
And really, my response was,well, just imagine how fulfilled
you'd be if you could go to asituation that was previously
unstable and create stability.
If you could go to some placethat was previously
dysfunctional and createsuccess.
So I love a challenge.
(08:01):
Well, I just kind of said it,Ron, but I didn't necessarily
know it would come to fruition.
Well, maybe a couple of yearslater, the opportunity came for
me to go to Fairfield County.
And as I said, that plea, thatseed had had already been
planted.
And I had a lot of people whotold me, JR, do not do it.
(08:22):
Wait for the next opportunity.
You have a bright career aheadof you.
I'm telling you, and I had lotsof people who go to the
graveyard, bro.
Don't go to the graveyard.
You should go, JR.
Uh, and I said, nope, no, I'mI'm going.
And quite honestly, Ron, I am aman who's guided by his faith
and not fear.
Uh, and so I knew that this iswhere God put me, and the
(08:44):
opportunities presented itself.
This is exactly uh where Ineeded to be.
Uh, and and the rest is history.
I, you know, I as I said, wewent from 12 superintendents in
20 years to me being there uhfor 12 years uh and leaving on
my own.
unknown (09:01):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
Uh, you know, a lot of my colleagues can't can't say
that, uh, and and it's nodisrespect to them, it's just
the nature of the work.
Uh very often uh you don't leavewhen you want to leave, you
leave when someone tells you youhave to leave.
Uh, but that wasn't the case forme.
I mean, I stayed wonderfulcommunity, wonderful school
(09:22):
board, wonderful students.
Um, and I used to say all thetime, if I could be the
superintendent of schools anywayin the work, it would have been
right there in Fairfield County.
Uh, and that's the only place Iserved as superintendent.
And Ron, I'll tell you, I hadopportunities uh to go other
places uh during that 12-yeartenure, uh, but I was committed
(09:44):
uh to showing that we could havestability in Fairfield County.
Uh, and as such, I decided I wasgonna retire right there.
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
So I want to unpack this for you.
I mean, you you you know, youplanted a seed, and for leaders
that are listening, you gottasee it before you do it.
That's the reality.
And you saw it way before youwere there, and it took, you
know, like I say, maybe threeyears later, but you saw it
three years in advance.
So I being that you planted thatseed, J.R., what did you start
(10:12):
doing to prepare for somethingthat wasn't gonna come for
another three years?
And patience is in there, andsome leaders are not patient,
they want it right now, today,and they don't want to wait and
they want to force their wayinto it.
What did you do over those threeyears after you planted that
seed?
SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
You know, Ron, I always tell leaders, bloom where
you plant it.
Okay.
Um, and don't necessarily worryabout the job you want, put your
focus on the job that you have.
Uh, and I'll tell you, uh, asassistant superintendent for
curriculum and instruction inChesterfield County, I tried to
(10:48):
be the absolute best leader Icould be.
I tried to do a job that wouldcause someone to notice me when
opportunity came about to becomea superintendent candidate.
Uh, and I think that's a that'sa mistake that sometimes leaders
make is they put so much focuson the job that they won't, they
(11:08):
forget about the job that theyhave.
Uh, and so I put my focus aroundon being the absolute best
assistant superintendent forcurriculum and instruction that
I could be.
I put my focus on creating asmany well-rounded experiences as
I absolutely could.
And I want to give a shout outto this individual, Dr.
Johnny Williams.
Uh, Dr.
Johnny Williams hired me asprincipal of Central High School
(11:32):
and hired me as assistantsuperintendent for curriculum
and instruction, and he reallycultivated and molded me to put
me in a position to be asuperintendent.
And and so very often peopledon't recognize how important it
is to have someone whocultivates uh your career.
(11:53):
And he was someone whoabsolutely did that.
And I had a lot of people alongthe way from Steve Wilson when I
was at Keenan High School to RonCowden uh when I was at Spring
Valley High School.
But I have been blessed, Ron,with people who have taken an
interest in growing my careerand not necessarily putting in
putting me in positions that canjust benefit them, but would
(12:17):
also benefit me.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Wow.
Wow.
I mean, and GR loving lovingyour conversation and so much to
unpack with you.
So you when you were assistantsuperintendent, what do you tell
leaders that's in that role thatwants to be a superintendent?
How do they show up to make surethey're supporting the person
that's the current leader whereyou are and doing a really good
job?
Because sometimes you can getcaught up and wanting that new
(12:41):
position that you don't do asgood of a job as you can for the
person you're working for that'scurrently holding the position
that you're interested in inanother location.
SPEAKER_03 (12:50):
So let me give a little context to uh to
Chesapeake County, and this isgonna make sense to you.
So Dr.
Dr.
Um Johnny Williams hired me asprincipal of Central High
School, uh, and I became thefirst black principal in the
history of the school.
And and when I got there, uh Ireally didn't know it at the
(13:12):
time, um, but it was a big dealwhen this young bow tie win
brother arrived.
I mean, it was quite thestarting.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
For those of y'all that watching the video, I don't
even know how to look at itright now.
He got a bow tie on.
That's all I have.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, both tie young guy.
SPEAKER_03 (13:32):
In fact, when I got there, there were many people
who said, Are you a Muslim?
Uh you in his bow tie.
I said, No, I'm a Methodist.
Uh, and so uh, so so so Dr.
Johnny Williams hired me asfirst black principal in the
history of Central High School.
Um, and that took some couragefrom him, let me tell you.
(13:52):
I mean, because he had a lot ofoptions other than hiring this
young bow tie win brother.
Uh, but he took a chance on me,uh, and we did tremendous things
at the school.
Well, fast forward four yearslater, Ron, he hires me as the
first black assistantsuperintendent for curriculum.
Well, really, the first blackassistant superintendent in the
(14:14):
history of ChesapeakeAccounting.
Let me let me say that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
So he hires me to be in charge of uh all of the
curriculum and instructionthroughout the district as
assistant superintendent, whichwas an absolutely bold move for
him.
Now, I had a lot of peopleduring my tenure as assistant
superintendent who would oftentell me, man, Dr.
William is using you.
(14:38):
He always put you out front todo this and he's putting you out
front to do that, and he'ssending you to this church and
he's sending you there.
And I say, Well, he better useme.
That's why he hired me.
Yeah.
I mean, what did you think hehired me for?
I say, so for any of you whocomplains about Dr.
William, let me remind you, Iwouldn't even be in Chesterfield
(15:00):
County if he didn't show thecourage to hire me first as a
principal and then as anassistant superintendent.
The first ever.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Let him use you.
Like let him.
SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
I love what you said, JR.
SPEAKER_02 (15:14):
He used you, and people are going to spend that
conversation, but you felt thathey, he better, he hired me, he
better put me up front.
And I say, for people that arelistening, JR, who's saying your
name in a room that you want toget in that's gonna be behind
you and push you out front.
You can use using or you can usepromoting.
What language are you using ofletting them use you to for you
(15:36):
to get better so you have anopportunity?
He took a risk, which means hehad confidence in being in that
and you had to trust him.
Can you speak to how much youtrusted him to even let him do
it?
SPEAKER_03 (15:46):
Oh, Ron, let me tell you, I I knew without a shadow
of a doubt, uh, that thisgentleman not only had the best
interest of the ChesapeakeCounty School District in the
forefront, but also my future.
Um, and so while some peoplesaid he was using me, he was
(16:06):
preparing me.
unknown (16:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (16:08):
And so by the time I got to Fairfield County, I had
been accustomed to engaging withthe community much more than
maybe other some other assistantsuperintendents.
I had been accustomed toengaging with the board maybe
more than some other assistantsuperintendents.
I remember, Ron, um, this isduring the the Great Recession,
(16:32):
where we had, oh man, I can'tremember what the deficit was,
but I remember we had to cut 41positions from the budget.
And Dr.
Williams said, Jay, I'm gonnaput you in charge of that.
Uh, so you you you need tofigure out how we cut that from
the budget.
Now, some people would say,well, man, you're giving me the
(16:53):
most difficult task, but itprepared me, Ron.
It prepared me to have some verydifficult conversations with
some people because now I gottafigure out how we trim millions
of dollars on the budget.
Yes, and so I didn't look at itas if he was using me, I looked
at it as if he was preparing me,yeah, preparing me for my next
(17:13):
job.
I mean, so yeah, yeah, he couldhave said, Well, I don't want to
put JR out there where he'sgonna do anything that's gonna
be controversial, that he'sgonna make everybody upset, that
he he could take it at my shine.
I mean, he wasn't worried aboutany of that.
I mean, he's very comfortable inwho he was.
Um, and quite honestly, Ron, hehe was preparing me to be a
superintendent.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
Yeah, I love it, J.R.
J.R.
You mentioned something I wantto unpack because oftentimes we
as we're looking for leadershipand we want to be successful,
and whether it's professional orpersonal in your life, you
didn't make it to those levelsand last for 12 years with no
controversy.
What do you tell leaders thatare listening, especially you
know, as we look at there'scontroversy everywhere for for
(17:54):
all reasons right now?
How do you help people staylevel-headed, stay positive,
stay effective, and effectivelymanage controversy?
SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
You know, Ron, I um I have a chapter in my book, uh,
it's titled Scared Money Can'tWin.
Yes.
And uh and I get that from uhsome of my uncles uh when they
used to gamble.
And as a young boy, I probablyhad no business there with them
gambling, but but I would bethere, listen to all the
(18:25):
stories.
You know, and one of theirstatements was always scared
money can't can't win.
Um and and what they were sayingwas, uh, and one of my brothers,
Ron, you can appreciate this,who is retired National Guard,
he's always telling me in themilitary, we say, JR, you can't
do a job if you're scared tolose a job.
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:45):
Um, and so so you have to do what's right and just
be faithful that it's going towork out.
Now, I tell leaders all thetime, Ron, that doesn't mean
that you won't get fired.
Yes.
Because you can do right andstill lose the job.
Now you can do that.
You can do everything right andlose a job, yes, and still get
fired.
So that doesn't mean that, butguess what?
(19:07):
You're gonna sleep good atnight.
Yeah.
Um, and and and if you are goodat what you do, other
opportunities will presentthemselves.
When I arrived in FairfieldCounty, I'll never forget I had
a meeting, one of my goodbuddies, the name of Tony
Armstrong, the name is TonyArmstrong, uh, and he and I did
some good work starting theGriffin Bowtie Club, me, him,
(19:28):
and a gentleman by the name ofVernie Kennedy.
And after my first boardmeeting, me and Tony, one of the
school board members and twoother individuals uh was sitting
outside for the meeting afterthe meeting.
Yes.
And uh and Tony, uh Tony toldme, he said, he said, uh, he
said, I'm gonna tell you, Doc,uh, you mess around and come to
(19:49):
Fairfair County and do somethingthat uh that people don't like,
they're gonna run you off.
Uh, you're not gonna last here.
And I said, Well, let me tellyou what, Tony.
If I do something that doesn'twork out, guess what?
But I'm just gonna do somethingelse because that didn't mean
that everything I do is gonna beright.
But I can tell you what, I'm notgonna sit back and be scared to
(20:09):
do anything because I'm scaredto lose the job.
If you're scared to do somethingwrong, you're never gonna do
anything right.
And so I always had thatphilosophy from day one line,
uh, that I'm guided by my faith,not by fear.
Uh, and I'm gonna do what Ithink is right and just let the
troops fall as they may.
Uh, and so as you said, I have II pushed down some paths that
(20:34):
some people would maybe shy awayfrom.
Uh, I might have rubbed somepeople the wrong way because I
tackled some issues that maybepeople didn't want to tackle.
Uh, but I think generallyspeaking, Ron, people have
respected my position because itnever came from a uh from a from
a place of of ill will.
Um it came from a genuine placeuh where we wanted uh to improve
(20:58):
as a system, as a state.
Um I I pushed families, um, Ipush teachers, I push
administrators, I push the statesuperintendent of education, I
push my boy, I want them to pushme.
Um as they say, I ain't sharp asiron, Ron.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, you push them and youand you, and I want everybody to
hear what you're saying, JR,because you pushed them and you
wanted to be pushed.
You always strive to be better.
How did you manage the fact thatyou were the first um and you
were chosen and you wereselected and you went to the
graveyard and you stayed therefor 12 years?
JR, I've always, ever since Imet you years ago, and I met you
(21:37):
just through counterparts, no,two the first question is how
did you manage to stay humbleknowing that that people were
watching and you had to get itright?
How did you stay humble?
SPEAKER_03 (21:50):
Yeah, Ron, first of all, I'm telling you, Doc, a lot
of prayers.
Uh I I you you you gotta stay inprayer there.
Um, and and Ron, it was uh itwas a family commitment.
I talk about that in my book aswell.
Uh my wife and my childrenalways made sure I kept things
(22:10):
in perspective.
And I am a girl dad.
Uh, and in fact, I just spoke touh one of my daughters, Jamal,
who's uh presenting at aconference in Australia.
Uh so it's it's about 10:30Australia time, but she called
me today just to talk about whatshe was doing.
But I have three daughters,Jamal, Janelle, and Jaycia.
(22:31):
Uh Janelle is a softwareengineer in in Bentonsville,
Arkansas, at Walmart.
Uh Jamal works for a companycalled NACO.
Uh, and and Jaycia is athird-year student at Clemson
University, uh, pursuing acareer as a dermatologist.
Um, and so it was always afamily commitment, Ron.
(22:53):
And my children always made sureI kept things in perspective.
Now, I acknowledge uh that itcame with sacrifice, and so my
children have probably visitedmore churches and went to more
meetings and more games and uhand more things that were part
of the job as maybe they wantedto.
Uh, but they understood that uhit's a part of what our family
(23:17):
does.
And so, Ron, I I think withprayer and the fact that I had a
family uh who always kept megrounded uh was essential uh to
me keeping things inperspective.
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
Yeah, I love it.
You bring in the family, you'rebringing the patience, you bring
in the humble, you talk about,you know, hey, you can't do a
job if you're worried aboutlosing a job.
SPEAKER_03 (23:37):
Ron, let me say this before you go to the next thing
because I don't want to leaveout the most important person
out of that whole equation,which was my wife, uh Tony
Green.
Uh I talked about my girl, butbut I give my wife immense
credit because in many instancesshe had to carry a heavier load.
Yes.
Uh, you know, there were manytimes I was worried about
putting out fires and dealingwith other people's children and
(24:01):
other issues, and and my wifehad to carry a heavier load
because I wasn't there as much.
So uh let me let me give my wifea shout out who uh and another
bit of irony, Ron, at the timethat I accepted a position in in
Fairfield County, my wife was auh a DBA dollar-based analyst
(24:25):
with VC Summer Nuclear Plant.
So she was already working inFairfield County, and so that's
when I knew this thing is reallyall coming together because now
we can be in Fairfield County.
My wife isn't far from her job,the children are there together.
Uh, it was just uh the rightfit.
And so shout outs to my wife, uhuh who did a yeoman's job uh in
(24:49):
helping to navigate uh thisfamily uh and take care of my
children while I was out takingcare of someone else's.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Yes, yes, and thank you for for doing that and
keeping both of us out oftrouble, you know, because you
know you'll be at work, whichyou know, y'all ain't mentioned
me.
I heard them girls' names, butyou forgot about me, girl dad.
You know, so I'm glad youcleaned that up to help both of
us out.
And but you said somethingthat's for all people that are
are professionals and yourspouse is professional, people
want work-life balance.
I said sometimes your spousewill carry a heavier load than
(25:18):
you will, and sometimes you it'snever 50-50 all the time.
So if you're looking for 50-50,you're probably gonna have some
some very uncomfortableconversations because it's not
really 50-50.
There are times when JR justtold you that he he couldn't be
there when he needed to bethere, wanted to be there, and
he was taking care of otherpeople's kids, which means his
wife had to not feel guilty, notfeel angry or resentful that she
(25:41):
had to do some of the stuff henormally would do so she can
support him.
That's support all the wayaround.
So, as you're listening, makesure you bring your family into
the fold, a part of thedecisions, the work that you're
doing, make it a family affair.
It's important, and he tells youthat's what he did.
That's what I do.
So if you listen to us, make ita family affair.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Ronald, I'll tell you without a shadow of a doubt,
uh, my tenure in FairfieldCounty would not have been
successful without thecommitment of my wife and
children.
Yeah, it it just absolutelywould not.
I could not have done it withoutthe commitment of my wife and
children, without the sacrificeof my wife and children.
(26:21):
Without the sacrifice of my wifeand children.
And so um if if if if if my wifeand children aren't on board,
then there's always tensionthere.
Yes.
You follow me?
I mean, I'm not in the rightkind of space.
I mean, there's always tensionthere, but but my wife was was
supported 100% and accepted thefact um that this is the
(26:44):
profession with which I havechosen, uh, and she is going to
be there uh to support herhusband.
And my children uh felt theexact same way.
You know, Ron, when when I tookthe job in Fairfield, my my
twins were rising sixth graders.
And so they were previously atPontiac Elementary School
(27:04):
because they were going toschool in Richmond too.
Um and when I came home and Isaid, I got good news, Daddy has
a new job.
Uh, dad's gonna besuperintendent of schools in
Fairfield County, and they wereexcited, oh yeah, as a
sixth-grade kid would.
Yeah, uh, I said, but it was atwist.
Um, now you have to go to a newschool.
(27:25):
Uh now you'll be going to schoolin Fairfield County because
we're getting ready to move toFairfield County.
Well, in Richmond too, sixthgrade is middle school.
Yeah, in Fairfield, sixth gradeis elementary school.
So elementary goes case six inFairfield, middle school is
(27:45):
seven, eight.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (27:46):
So my girls found out they were gonna be in
elementary school for anotheryear, they were devastated.
So we're not going to middleschool, we're gonna be in
elementary school for anotheryear.
Uh that would they didn't likethat.
All right.
Um, but but they sucked it up,yeah.
Uh and then another another yearin elementary school, uh, but
(28:07):
they did well.
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
Yeah, they're resilient, but but you you're
transparent, you talk about it,and you don't just you know walk
away from it.
Yeah, I want I want to I want topivot a little bit.
So you talk about the familyrelationship.
I want uh can you share in yourjourney uh of this 12 years, you
know, doing a phenomenal job?
Well, let me back up.
There's a question I want to askthat you you said that that
(28:31):
Fairfair had great talent beforeyou got there.
What did you do, JR, to bringthe talent out of those people?
Because it's not like youreplaced the whole district.
What did you do to for people toget on board?
Because it was already there andyou brought it out.
What did you do to bring outbecause it's it went from
graveyard to destination placenow?
(28:52):
What did you do to let peopleshow up for real and change
their whole mindset and do abetter job?
And it had always been there.
SPEAKER_03 (29:00):
You know, Ron, you you you just spoke to the last
chapter in my book, Graveyard ofBloom and Garden, where where I
really outlined the fact thatthe greatness existed long
before I got here.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
I just helped to facilitate what was already
here.
And so I didn't I didn't bringanything here.
Um it was already, it was herewhen I when I arrived.
The one thing that we focused onfrom day one, Ron, was culture.
The the culture had becomedysfunctional, the culture had
become toxic, and and as I sayvery often, you can go get the
(29:34):
best seeds from around theworld.
Yeah, premier seeds from allover the world and put them in
bad soil, and it won't bearfruit.
And that's what had existed,Ron.
We had a toxic culture, and Itell people that negative toxic
culture is just like barrensalt.
(29:56):
Yes, you can put greatness init, but it it it it won't
mature, it won't grade, it won'tit won't bear fruit.
And so from day one, my focuswas on culture.
You know, one of my mirrormoments, I mirror moments, I
talk about how culture trumpsstrategy all day and twice on
Sunday, it eats strategy forbreakfast.
(30:18):
Yes, and so from day one, wesaid everything we do, and I
want you to reflect on it, itwill contribute to a culture of
competence, collaboration,trust, and respect.
Everything we do in thisdistrict will contribute to
establishing a culture ofcompetence, collaboration,
trust, and respect.
And it doesn't happen overnight,but over time, you'll see the
(30:42):
culture begin to shift.
And for any leader, if you wantto identify any one thing that
you can do, Ron, to transformyour organization, I tell you
put your focus on culture.
SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
Yes.
Yeah, I love that you're sayingit.
You know, I I build a frameworkand people you know that follow
me, I always make a statement,people always matter.
What did you what did you do tomake sure that those people not
that you just said it, becauseI'm sure 12 superintendents over
20 years have said it but didn'tdeliver on it.
What did you actually do todeliver on it?
(31:17):
You personally, you know, so soso what did you walk and do it?
Can you show the audience thethings you started intentionally
doing consistently?
SPEAKER_03 (31:25):
Yeah, the first thing Ron is is showing up.
Um, you know, what if Dr.
Swillie said, she jokingly said,you know, when I when I first uh
I hired Dr.
Swillie uh as during my secondyear.
So uh I hired her my second yearas superintendent.
So she had been there 11 yearswhen I retired.
But she said when she firstarrived there, uh she had a code
(31:48):
word for when the superintendentis in the building.
Yes, and so when people wouldsee me, I don't know what the
coach, he didn't tell me whatthe code word was.
Let's say the code word wasmarshmallow.
I mean, so that means Dr.
Green's here.
But she said, Dr.
Green, you were here so much.
I told him, just forget aboutthat code word.
I mean, don't worry about that.
I mean, because he heard it.
He'll say that all day, he'sgonna figure it out soon.
(32:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He here all the time.
So don't let's don't even worryabout that code word.
So, Ron, number one, was showingup.
Um, and and and Javonda Brown,who who was my executive
assistant, would tell you um,most days I didn't even come to
the office until I don't know,maybe nine, ten o'clock.
I mean, I but I started my daysout in school somewhere.
(32:32):
Um, and so people got accustomedto seeing me, people develop
relationships with me, peoplebegan to trust me.
And Ron, I tell people you can'thave trust without relationship.
Nope.
So anyone who says that, oh, Idon't know why the people don't
trust me, it's because you don'thave a relationship with them,
(32:53):
they don't know you.
And so I'd go to schools, Ron.
I'd visit classrooms, talk tokids, I talk to teachers, I go
to the cafeteria, what y'allcooking in here today?
I'm coming back to get mesomething to eat.
I mean, I'm which I mean, I'mI'm I'm everywhere.
Okay, and so my presence was wasfelt everywhere, and it was all
about developing relationshipswith people.
(33:15):
And when people haverelationships with you and they
trust you, Ryan, they'll runthrough brick walls for you.
Yes, and it won't necessarily beyour vision, it'll be our
vision.
Uh, you know, we weren't weweren't big on having these
mission and and and missionstatements.
I mean, these long convolutedthings.
(33:36):
Uh, we had two things thatpeople really embraced when I
was there.
One was our motto, and our mottosaid that excellence through
teamwork.
That's how we're gonna getthere.
And I wanted everybody torecognize, Ron, that I won't do
it, school board won't do it,the teachers won't do it, the
(33:57):
parents won't do it, thestudents won't do it, the
deacons won't do it, thepastors.
It'll take all of us to do it.
And if we are what we say wewant to be, it'll take the
collaborative uh efforts of usall.
And our other thing was ourslogan, Ron, was recognizing
that we were on a journey.
So we said we were going fromordinary to extraordinary.
unknown (34:17):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (34:18):
And I and I reminded people that this was a journey
with no destination.
We are constantly traveling,we're constantly pushing, never
beginning uh getting complacent.
And so um the entire cultureshift required that I I reduce
(34:38):
myself, Ron.
Too often people say, Well, I'mthe leader, you need to lift me
up.
You want me to treat my ego?
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
Come on, man.
I work all the superintendent,got this doctoral degree.
I got all these years,especially.
They hired me.
Don't you know they hired me?
They brought me because y'allwere broke.
You want me to you want me tolike treat my ego like for real,
man?
Come on, bro.
SPEAKER_03 (35:01):
Now it's not about you, bro.
I I remember one day I waspulling up to one of the schools
and and one of the monitors, uh,security monitors, she told me,
she said, you know what, Dr.
Green?
I'm always amazed that wheneveryou come, you don't ever worry
about where you have to park,you don't ever want us to save
you anything, you just parkanywhere that's available.
(35:24):
And I said, Yeah, I mean, Ithat's what service is about.
Leadership isn't about beingserved, it's about it's about
serving others.
Uh, and so I've always had thatmindset with my ego that
bothered me.
You know, Ron, quite honestly,when I go places, you can ask
anyone this now, yeah.
I don't ever introduce myself asDr.
(35:46):
J.R.
Green.
Nope.
You know, it's you know, yeah, Idon't know.
My name is J.R.
Green.
Um, and if if you ask, did Iearn a PhD?
Uh I'll I'll I'll I'll tell youthat, but that doesn't that
(36:06):
doesn't define who I am.
I mean, and quite honestly,nobody cares.
You know, so I'm just that bigego guy.
SPEAKER_02 (36:15):
J, how did you how did you because this is, I mean,
a lot uh, you know, you walkinto an organization that that
everybody has said that thepeople you you fail there
because people don't cometogether, people don't trust,
organization was broken, whichmeans they're saying the people
are broken.
How do you walk in withoutmaking that judgment and come to
that conclusion and you startlooking down on people?
How did you not do that?
(36:37):
Because that was important thatyou saw the value versus the
brokenness.
SPEAKER_03 (36:42):
So, so Ron, first of all, I already had some insight
into Fairfield County.
Remember, I talked about Dr.
Steve Wilson, um, who was whohad hired me as assistant
principal at Keenan High School.
He was a graduate of McCorreyListon High School, which is in
Fairfield County.
He's from Fairfield.
Uh, in fact, we named the uh thecafeteria at Macquarie Liston
(37:06):
after his mother, who's thecafeteria manager there for oh,
30 or 40 years.
Uh, and so I'd already known alittle bit about Fairfield uh
before I arrived, and I knew therich history that existed there
over many years.
And as much as people may lookat the recent tenure or prior to
my arrival and talking about allthe superintendent turnover,
(37:29):
there was a lot of historyoutside of that, whatever that
20-year period was.
So, Ron, I went inunderstooding, uh understanding
the greatness that alreadyexisted there, and I understood
the assignment.
You know, Ron, leaders who sayit's the people's fault that the
culture isn't bad, they'remissing that the culture is bad,
(37:52):
they're missing them up.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (37:55):
Anytime a leader looks at an organization and
they are critical of theorganization, you gotta first
start being critical of theleadership.
And so the man in the mirror.
The man in the mirror.
You gotta first start looking atyourselves.
And so, Ron, anything thatexisted in the district that
(38:16):
wasn't where I thought it neededto be, I took ownership of that.
Yeah, that was myresponsibility.
When I first moved there, peoplesaid, Man, the system is so
unstable.
Do you have any apprehensionabout taking your children out
of school in Richmond II andputting them in school in
Fairfield?
I said, Well, I'm thesuperintendent.
(38:38):
If there's a problem with thesystem, who do I have to blame?
Okay, I absolutely not.
If I'm the superintendent andI'm telling you the other
problem with the system, who amI gonna blame?
So, no, I have absolutely noapprehension about it because I
have the responsibility to makesure that their experience, in
(38:58):
addition to all the otherchildren's experience, is a
world-class experience.
And so taking ownership, Ron, Ithink is the key, uh, and not
placing blame on someone else.
You know, it always baffles mewhen I hear leaders say, well,
the people weren't ready forchange.
The people weren't ready forchange.
(39:20):
Whose responsibility is it toget the people ready for change?
I mean, who it's it's yourresponsibility to get the people
ready for change, or the peopleweren't ready for what I was I
was presenting.
Well, it's your responsibilityto cultivate it.
I mean, so it all comes back towhat your responsibility as a
leader, and I own every bit ofthat, Rob.
(39:44):
I told the school board youcould never hold me more
accountable than I hold myself.
SPEAKER_02 (39:49):
Wow, I love it, man.
I I love it.
You know, I'm sitting here, youknow, we're we're we're doing a
debate this Friday coming up,you know, just invited you and
your spouse.
Um, but I'm thinking I Here at20 in 2026, and we get ready to
do it in October to have you onthere because what you're
sharing is what we speak to.
Um, you know, real, fun,enjoyable.
But how do you hold yourselfaccountable and no one can hold
(40:11):
you to a higher standard?
I want to be able to wrap up forus, but you spoke to something
that was super important forevery leader that's listening.
How valuable was it for you torecognize and build
relationships for you to besuccessful?
You talked about the family partof professionally.
How important was it for you tobuild professional
relationships?
I mean, you're saying names, youremember who they are, where
(40:33):
they were, dates, and all thatstuff.
How important were relationshipsto your success?
SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
You know, it was violent, Ron.
I I, you know, I developed anetwork of colleagues across
this country whom I could Icould call on at any point in
time, who I could bounce ideasoff at any point in time, who
could call on me as in at anypoint in time.
And I always say, Ron, you saidsomething that was profound, uh,
(41:01):
that some people have havechallenged me on, but I've told
them, folks, none of you all aremy competitors.
SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:09):
I'm not in competition with with Randall
Gary and Spartanberg.
I wasn't in competition withBaron Davis in Richmond 2 or
Sean Fauston in Orangeburg.
I'm not in competition withanybody.
My goal is for all of us to bethe absolute best that we can
be, and we got to change thatparadigm.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:29):
Because when you feel as if you're in competition
with someone, you see it as azero-sum game.
SPEAKER_00 (41:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:36):
You know, I was I was at the Career Center in FLC
because I'm helping them withsome work there, uh, and I was
talking to the Career Centerdirector, Dr.
Cleve Pilot, about the um thegaming team.
And they participated in acompetition at Benedict this
weekend, and uh he had a kidcome in first and a kid to come
(41:56):
in third.
And so we were just celebratinguh the good work that they had
done.
But then we talked about thefact that when Orangeburg County
School District was trying todevelop a gaming program, they
came to visit our gaming lab.
SPEAKER_00 (42:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (42:11):
And so uh Sean called me, he sent some
representatives down fromOrangeburg, they came and
visited.
We gave them all the informationabout how we set it up, where we
purchased it, the whole, thewhole nine yards.
Uh and Sean jokingly said, Well,JR, I told my people that my lab
better be better than JR's labin Fairfield.
But I know what he was sayingjokingly, but the point is this,
(42:32):
Ron, if I see Sean as acompetitor, then I don't want to
share that with Sean.
Absolutely.
Because I don't want Sean to dowhat I'm doing.
I don't want Sean to be betterthan I am.
When I started the StemberlyCollege Academy in Fairfield
County back in 2012, when we hadstudents to earn an associate
degree in science, I mean thatpeople were really impressed by
that.
(42:53):
Well, my colleague who was inBatesburg at the time, who's now
in Spartanburg, Randall Garrett,he said, Jay, I'm gonna send a
team of people to Fairfieldbecause we want to replicate
what you're doing.
We want to do that in inBatesburg.
I said, absolutely.
Send them on down.
So Ron, you're right.
We gotta we gotta get out ofthis mindset that it's a zero,
it's a zero sum game.
(43:15):
Folks, there's enough greatnessfor everybody.
And I don't, I don't have to, Idon't have to put you down and
lift me up.
I don't have to stand on you inorder to stand me up.
I mean, so um I I I've neverI've never adopted that kind of
mentality uh because I thinkit's counterproductive.
Yeah, we can we can have acompetitive spirit where
(43:37):
everybody wants to make everyoneelse better, but I'm not trying
to be better than you becauseyou know, I one of my buddies
who tried to challenge me onthis, he said, Well, JR, uh, I
mean, competition is good.
I mean, because you know,competition makes you better and
makes me better.
And I said, Well, competitivespirit is good, but I don't want
(44:00):
to see it like I see a footballgame.
Yeah where I gotta have morepoints than you at the end of
the quarter.
Because if my goal is to havemore points than you, I don't
want to make you better becausethat's gonna cause you to get
more points than me.
See, if we just have acompetitive spirit, I want you
to get as many points as you canget, and I want to get as many
points as I can get.
(44:20):
That's the difference, okay?
That's the difference betweenbeing a competition.
SPEAKER_02 (44:24):
Yes, I love it, and and I say that, and I hope
everybody's listened to that.
In reality, we we both practiceit.
At the end of the day, I wantyou to be successful.
You want me to be successful,we're supporting each other, and
I think that we got to bereally, really mindful when it
becomes detrimental to bedestructive.
Um, that that we it's a zero-sumgame, and I think there's enough
for all of us to be to bereally, really good at what
we're doing and make thecommunity better.
(44:46):
Our company got in businessbecause someone took three days
out of their company to show mywife and I how to run our
company.
We had no clue.
And we flew to Washington State,and I can tell you that she
walked us through every singlething and put us in front of her
clients to let us see how tonavigate and have conversations.
And people say, Where did youlearn it?
I say, someone shut theircompany down for three days and
brought us in.
(45:06):
And and and so, why do I giveback so much and why do I think
we got to get there?
Everything that I know, JR, Iwas not born with any of it.
Someone poured into, investedinto, educated, gave to,
mentored, sponsored, advocated,championed everything that I
know, I got it from somewhere.
(45:28):
I wasn't born with any of thisknowledge.
And I think we got to get pastthe point of because you know it
makes me less good.
I think we're both great.
We can stand beside each otheron the stage and deliver
something totally different,even though we do the same
thing, because it's yourfingerprint.
So for those of you that listen,stop destroying people for you
to feel good about yourself orfor you to feel like you're
gonna be better.
(45:48):
Learn to collaborate.
I actually use a word calledco-opetition, which means
cooperate with your competition.
SPEAKER_03 (45:55):
I like that, Ron.
I'm I'm gonna steal that one,bro.
SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
I'm gonna steal that one.
Cooperate with them and make itmake the world a better place
for all of us.
JR, as we come to a close, man,you've shared a lot of great
stuff, man.
It's been fun, it's beenenjoyable, you've been
transparent.
What would you share withleaders that you want them to
walk away with?
And when you finish that, tellus how to get in touch with you
and where we can find your book.
Give me two things, and not evena number, whatever that number
is, what is what is what wouldyou like to leave them with as
(46:20):
we wrap up?
SPEAKER_03 (46:22):
You know, Ron, I talk about this in, I don't
know, my maybe third or fourthum uh mirror moment episode.
And I think it's one thing thathas resonated with me over time
that I want all leaders toreally reflect upon.
Uh, and it's something that Iheard from Simon Sate many, many
years ago that says, Are you aleader or are you an authority?
(46:44):
And and I think too often peopleconfuse the two run.
Yes, I think they thinkleadership is about having
authority over people, it'sabout being the boss and telling
people what to do, but theyaren't leading anyone.
Uh, and so everybody has toself-reflect about what space
(47:05):
you'll really you'll reallyoccupy.
Because if you're simply anauthority, people will do what
you say to comply to keep theirjobs.
Yes, but but people are notgonna comply to greatness, yes.
You will lead people togreatness, but nobody's gonna
comply to greatness, and youaren't gonna scare anyone into
greatness.
Leaders, people will run down,they'll run through, they'll
(47:29):
climb over, they'll do anythingin the world because they don't
want to disappoint you, and andthey feel as if the vision that
you outlined is not just yourvision, it is their vision.
Um, and and so how do we go fromthat space of simply being
authority as people who havebeen who have been placed in
(47:49):
charge to now being leaders,Ron, who people follow even if
you had no title.
And that's when you know youhave reached that point.
I don't need to tell anyone thatI'm the leader.
I didn't, I didn't run.
I didn't need to go anywhere andsay, hey, hey, hey, wait a
minute, I'm in charge.
Hey, I'm I'm superintendent, I'mI'm the chair, I'm the you don't
(48:12):
need to do that.
All right, because if really youin charge, then you don't need
to tell anybody.
All right, and so that that'sthe one bit I leave you with,
Ron, is that let's focus onbeing leaders and not simply
authorities.
As it relates to where you canreach me, Ron.
Uh, as I said earlier, uh I havea website uh that really
outlines the work of Green TeamConsultant, uh Jr-green.com.
(48:38):
Uh my number is 803-261-9113.
Uh, you can reach me onLinkedIn, uh, you can reach me
on Facebook.
Um, you can call me, you canemail me at uh JRG466642 at
gmail.com.
(48:59):
Uh so uh excited about uh thenext phase of my professional
journey, Ron.
I mean it was great being asuperintendent for 12 years,
great being an educator for 30years, uh, but I'm just as
excited about my work aroundleadership and development and
speaking and all the otherthings that we engage around uh
in my role as CEO of Green TeamConsultant.
SPEAKER_02 (49:23):
Yeah, G.
I think you just made the stagebigger.
Um and I tell people all thetime, you know, with the work
that I do, people offer all thetime, hey man, you want to be
the CEO or you want to come intothe company?
And I and I said, no, the stageis much bigger.
I want to be able to help morethan just one.
And I'm excited to have you inthe field with us, and and
you're gonna challenge us to getbetter, and we're gonna and
we're gonna challenge you to getbetter and do great work and
hold each other accountable.
(49:43):
You know, that's what makes upour community.
So I'm excited that you came onthe show, excited that that
you're in the space where we arenow.
Um, and for all you that arelistening, I mean, JR does good
work.
I mean, he has a good book outthere, and he's real.
He gave you all this contactinformation.
Reach out to him.
If you use his services, by allmeans, um reach out, you know,
and ask questions and figure outwho he is and what he's doing
and what you're trying to getdone.
(50:05):
And for all you that arewatching and listening and have
been with us, thank y'all forjoining us on Unpack with Ron
Harvey.
You know how to find me.
I'm on two primary sources is myemail.
You can always reach me atrharvey at gcs.consulting.
Um, and you can always find meon LinkedIn on the two primary
sources.
I put stuff on Facebook, butprofessionally, uh email me
directly or check check out ourwebsite um and you'll find
(50:27):
everything about us there.
But until next time, Jerry and RJR and I are really happy that
y'all stayed with us.
Hopefully, you have fun with us.
Um, and by the time you listento this, we will be doing other
great things and we'll probablybe the spoken a couple places.
If you need a speaker, reach outto either one of us.
Um, we're excited about it.
We're business owners.
We love to have an opportunityto earn your business.
We don't feel obligated that youbring us in, but we love the
(50:49):
opportunity to be at the tablefor the conversation.
Um, we'd love to earn yourbusiness and help make this
community a better place for allof us.
Until next time, Jarr, J.R.
and I will sign off and telly'all thank you for being with
us.
Until next time, uh with Unpackwith Ron Harvey.
Y'all have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_01 (51:04):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks Sound Advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are or the people youserve.
(51:26):
Because people always matter.
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