May 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Technology expert Mark Wormgoor shares his journey from tech specialist to leadership coach, revealing how effective tech leadership requires balancing technical expertise with genuine people management skills. He explores how the widening gap between agile startups and slow-moving corporations creates both challenges and opportunities in today's rapidly evolving technological landscape.
• Understanding the critical transition from technical expert to people leader
• Defining exceptional leadership in tech as a combination of team leadership, technical breadth, and business acumen
• Embracing AI through small, quick pilots rather than long-term implementation programs
• Recognizing how technology's accelerating pace requires shorter planning horizons and more iterative approaches
• Identifying three core qualities of effective tech leaders: vision, boldness, and stakeholder engagement
• Helping tech teams adapt to constant change by balancing stability with innovation
• Supporting first-time tech leaders by focusing on team development rather than personal technical contribution
• Encouraging CTOs to spend half their time outside their department connecting with other business functions
Visit The Maverick CTO at themaverickcto.com for technology leadership resources, or contact Mark through Tairi (T-A-I-R-I.co) for technology consulting services.
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Good morning.
This is Ron Harvey.
I'm the vice president andchief operating officer for
Global Core Strategies andConsulting, which is a
leadership sustainability firmwhere we help leaders be better
connected to their workforce sothat the people that are helping
them be successful they'retaken care of and making sure
they have everything all theresources and the support that
they need.
We spend all of our timehelping leaders be better
connected to the people that aregoing to make you successful or
(00:52):
break you from being successful.
We believe in leadership everyday.
Based out of Columbia, southCarolina, my wife and I have
been in business over 10 years,love what we do.
We're passionate about it.
We both have a militarybackground, so we love serving.
Our entire business is aboutserving other people to be
successful.
But we pause every single day,and every Monday we release a
podcast, and today I have aphenomenal guest.
(01:12):
Mark is going to be joining us.
He'll tell you who he is, wherehe's at, and I'm excited about
having people with allbackgrounds from across the
globe to say yes to this podcast.
The beauty is, I don't knowwhat I'm going to ask them.
I don't know what they're goingto say.
All we'll promise you is we'regoing to talk about leadership,
so hang on for the ride.
Stay with us.
We'll spend about 30 minuteswith you, but we're really going
to share real insights behindthe curtain.
(01:34):
That's why it's called Unpacked.
So, mark, I'm going to hand youthe microphone and we're going
to jump in after you finishintroducing yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Hey, ron, good day and thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure to behere.
So a bit about myself, mybackground, mark, I live in the
Netherlands, so indeed, theother side of the ocean, based
in Central Europe, and mybackground is in technology.
So I've been in tech for all ofmy life.
What I do today, I havebasically two businesses.
I run Tyree, which is one of mybusinesses, where I provide IT
(02:02):
services to startups andscale-ups.
We do a lot of softwaredevelopments, ai services, data
engineering, and I also and thisis what I love doing I coach
tech leaders, so people in techcompanies that are in a
leadership position, from asmall CTO to, like corporate
leaders in bigger companies.
I coach them on theirleadership and on their skills,
(02:23):
and that's why I really lovebeing here as well today.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, thank you for joining andso, like I tell you, we're
global, we believe in reachingacross the ocean in different
places and communities, so Ilove that you're going to come
across and talk leadership, likeyou said your background.
So let me dive in a little bitfor you.
When you think of techcompanies and you think about
you started, terry, in your CTOprogram.
What made you start it?
What did you see as an issue orconcern that made you lean in?
(02:48):
This is where you want to spendyour time.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So those are two different things.
First, I love technology.
So I've been in the tech spacefor 30 years and it's my passion
and that's really why I startedthe company.
I mean, tech is just it's inevery company today.
It's gone through such aphenomenal growth over the past
years that every company dependson technology today and it's
becoming more and more complex.
And it's my passion, it's whatI love and I love.
(03:13):
I love helping others withtechnology and providing
services and just I speak to alot of entrepreneurs that want
to make better use of technology.
They just don't know how, theydon't know where to start and I
love helping entrepreneurs.
And the other part is also theleadership parts.
Like I said, I've been in aleadership position in
technology, so my background isin corpus as well.
(03:33):
I've been.
I worked for accenture inconsulting.
After that I had some majorleadership quotes in large
corporates and I grew into my,my leadership skills as and
especially in technology.
That's quite a tough skill forpeople because they grow up as
developers, they know servers,they know codes.
Going from there to leading ateam, leading a set of teams and
(03:55):
leading a department those aresome big steps to grow into and
I love just helping people onthe road.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Let me unpack that a little bit for you.
As you know, you have thebackground in technology and you
started getting promoted orelevated to this leadership
thing.
What were some of thechallenges of going from the
subject matter expert intechnology to being an expert of
people, which is what I'll tellleaders.
They have to be really good atleading and knowing people well.
What were some of thechallenges for you, For our tech
people that are listening, thatmay be on the journey that you
(04:23):
had to go through?
What were some of your biggestchallenges of making that
transition?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
To be fair, I got a very long way without knowing
people, without just deliveringthe work, getting the work done,
managing people right, as wesay, just managing finances,
budget managing a team, justgetting the work done.
I got a very long way until atsome point, I did trip, like
many people do along this road,and I figured out that it's good
(04:49):
to have an interest in people,but just actually caring about
the people that you work with,taking a true human interest in
them, like understanding whothey are, what their passions
are, what their ambitions are,giving feedback on a human level
instead of just following theprocess.
Yeah, I think that's one of my,and I think it's a trip up that
maybe some of us, or a lot ofus, make on the journey, but
(05:12):
it's one that I certainly made,yeah, how do you define really
great leadership in tech space?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Now that you're in that space and you realize you
have tech, how do you definereally great leadership?
What does it look like in thetech space?
Exceptional leadership.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
So in the tech space, like I said, it's just so
complex.
So the tech space requiresreally good leadership.
Team leadership is critical.
Right, you have a team or a setof team leads that report to
you.
You need to manage them, youneed to care about the culture,
you need to care about the humanbeings, you need to care about
their ambitions and the cultureand the team and, working
(05:47):
together, solve issues as theyarise.
So the team leadership is likeany leadership position is a
critical part of it.
The other part of it is youneed to understand the
technology.
I come across and technology isso incredibly broad that makes
it really hard.
So you need to go anywhere frominfrastructure to applications,
to codes, to ai these days, tocyber security, and you need to
(06:10):
understand all the differentbits and pieces as you grow up
in leadership and technology.
So it's a very broad technicalrole as well.
So I say that's the second part.
You get all the otherleadership fun items like budget
, financials, understanding,like all those aspects and, on
top of that, managing all yourstakeholders.
You need to be able to have adiscussion with the CEO or a CFO
(06:32):
and talk about technology.
You need to explain technologyto them in a way that they
understand that makes sense.
If you have ideas or plans, youneed to be able to explain them
in business talk.
You need to talk about ROIs.
You need to talk about budgets.
Explain them in business talk.
You need to talk about RIs.
You need to talk about budgets,about CapEx versus OpEx.
You need to be able to have allthose discussions at a CFO or a
CEO level.
So it's such an incrediblybroad space to be in and I think
(06:56):
that's why it's so interestingto me.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yes, I think you're tapping on a lot of things that
I want to unpack a little bitwith you AI, every conversation.
I mean, I've been doing thispodcast for a while and I can
tell you in the last six monthsI don't think I've had a podcast
that AI term did not show up.
So when you think of leadership, you think of AI.
What are some of the nuancesthat's shifting the space for
leaders when it comes to AI andtechnology?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So if I talk about, let me talk about tech
leadership, right, becausethat's the space that I am, and
then I'll talk about it forentrepreneurs In tech leadership
.
So first of all, you need toreally understand AI and we all.
I mean I've seen a graph aboutthe type of people and the
different generations that useAI and there's actually not even
that big a difference betweenGen Z or boomers.
I mean they all will go andeven like mom and pop, they will
(07:46):
go on chat, gpt, they'll promptsomething, they'll do something
.
So a lot of people know what aiis or roughly what it can do,
and that's based on their ownconsumer experiences.
And as a CTO or as a techleader, you need to be able to
make the translation from allthe different capabilities that
there are in AI and translatethat into what is possible for
your business, your organization.
(08:06):
So translate it from atechnology into an opportunity
in sales and marketing andlogistics and delivery and
manufacturing.
In manufacturing, depending onthe company you're in, you
really need to have that broaddiscussion and be able to
understand ai in all thedifferent service lines in your
company and be able to explainthat and have a discussion again
(08:29):
with the board about what ispossible, what you can do and
what you want to do.
I think that's one, and fromthere I'm a big fan of running
small pilots.
So we all want to go and deployAI at scale, which is really
cool, but I always promote doingreally small pilots.
Think about a big problem youhave as a business, see where AI
(08:49):
can actually go and solve thatand do a small pilot and a small
pilot doesn't have to beexpensive for 5K or 10K.
You can probably do a prettydecent pilot and see if it is
actually going to solve yourproblem.
Also, ai is moving so fast thatyou can't run a three-year
program anymore.
So you can't, because in threeyears the world's going to be
completely different.
So everything you do needs tobe short-term, it needs to be
(09:11):
quick, quick turnarounds, lowerbudgets and get realization of
value very quickly.
So that's, if you're in thetech space and I think the same
for entrepreneurs, because it isgetting so complex I say, if
you don't have someone in yourvicinity that understands this
space really, really well, findthem.
Either hire a, a part-time cto,on board, or bring a, a
(09:33):
consultancy firm, in, or hiresomeone in your team.
Make sure that you have someonewho can really stand by you and
help you with all of thistechnology, because it is so
complex.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I love that and I think that's worth repeating
too.
When you think about it, mark,is it's moving so fast and I'd
love you to emphasize theimportance of that, because the
days of you having five years orthree years now to wait for
something to come to fruition isnot reality anymore.
Can you speak to the speed ofchange and the speed of
technology and what do we needto do as leaders to embrace it?
(10:07):
Because there's some fear weknow people are intimidated by,
but there has to be some levelof how do I get comfortable even
though I'm nervous and unsure.
How do you speak to that?
Because it's moving fast, it'snot going to wait for us.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yes, no, and I think that's how the tech world has
changed.
About 10 years ago, it wasquite normal that you would
source a new contract and youwould have a contract for the
next five years, or you wouldoutsource something, or you
would run a large transformationprogram in technology that
would run three to five years.
I think those days are gone.
It's going to be reallydifficult to right now plan for
(10:41):
what's going to happen in 2030.
In five years from today, we'rein 2030.
I can't tell you what theworld's going to look like, what
the technology space is goingto look like.
So having large, multi-million,multi-year programs, I think, is
maybe something of the pastthat will still be there, but
they're going to be a lot less.
Instead, have really smallprojects, have really small
iterations, do pilots and justmove quickly, but make it really
(11:02):
small.
Keep it small, keep itcontainable, keep it affordable
and just make really smalliterative changes and learn as
you go.
So try something, test it out.
Does it work?
Great, we're going to build ontop of it.
If it doesn't work, scratch itand try something else.
So I think that's really thechange in leadership it's a lot
faster, it's iterative and it'sa lot shorter term.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Awesome.
What do you see as some of thelow-hanging fruit?
So you work with entrepreneurs,you're in the tech space and
you have a really nice blend ofskillset.
You know, very rarely do youhave someone that's tech in
leadership, helpingentrepreneurs and doing this.
What's the low-hanging fruit?
So if someone's listening tothis and they're small business
(11:45):
on an entrepreneur, so I'mleaning in that space for them,
what's the low-hanging fruit for?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
entrepreneurs leveraging technology.
So I think what a lot ofentrepreneurs are probably
already doing I'm in quite a fewentrepreneur groups or
communities as well.
Actually, quite a few of themare just using like chatPT to
create a content schedule, forexample, to create a sales
approach, to create a marketingapproach, and you can just.
I love using things like thatfor just even brainstorming.
(12:08):
So I'm not always the mostcreative mind.
I love using it forbrainstorming.
So if I need 10 ideas forsomething, I will always ask
ChatGPT first.
I can Google the internet.
It's going to take me an houror two hours and just ask the
question first.
So I think that's what a lot ofentrepreneurs are already using
for today, and all the modelsare getting a lot better and
they're so much better now thanthey were a year ago.
(12:30):
So the answers are improvingrapidly as well, which is good.
So I think a lot of theconsumer type tools that are out
there like chat, gpt, likeclaude, like gemini are already
being used by a lot ofentrepreneurs.
If you're not using it yet, I'dsay we get on board, because
everybody else already is, butit's not extremely difficult.
I think by a couple of ouryoutube video you can figure out
(12:50):
how to use it for sales ormarketing or deliveries.
That's that first one, and thesecond one is really when you
have, as an entrepreneur, youhave business challenges, so
either you will need more leadsor you want more sales, or maybe
you need to optimize your teamor your supply chain.
There are different AI basedsolutions for all of those
spaces.
(13:10):
I think the trap that a lot ofpeople fall into is taking the
technology and seeing whatproblem we can solve, instead of
turning it around looking atyour business like what are the
challenges that you have in yourbusiness from finance, supply
chain, marketing, sales andseeing how can you implement AI
to solve that problem andimprove your churn, your
(13:30):
customer retention, yourcustomer happiness, satisfaction
, like how can you improve thoseusing AI?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, I mean, and if you're listening and you're
watching, I'm a golden nuggetbecause you dropped something
that's super important is how doyou look at your own business
and your own problems and let AIhelp you get better at taking
care of your customers at theend of the day?
I want to pivot a little bitand talk about you.
You've been in this businessindustry for over 30 years
nearly 30 years anyway.
How has your leadership styleevolved over time?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Quite a bit, I would say.
And mostly, like I said in thebeginning, I was this.
Really, especially in myconsulting days, I would say
give me a team, give me a budget, I'll get it done.
That's the kind of leader andthat's also maybe quite fitting
for someone in consulting.
That was my management style.
Right, I could get any projectdone as long as you gave me a
budget or a team and I'd get itdone.
Didn't matter what the problemwas, we'd get it done.
(14:20):
So that was really my originalleadership style Get stuff done,
which I think is good in theearly days of your career.
Over time, that's graduallychanged.
I've broadened my skills intofinance, into larger programs,
into bigger teams and then alsointo people management, and
that's really where I've madeprobably the biggest steps in
(14:42):
the last 10 years, becausethat's the really hard part, or
at least it was for me thepeople management.
So talking to people, talkingabout their weekends, talking
about their families, theirambitions, listening.
I've read a lot of amazingbooks.
My journey actually startedwith one of Brene Brown's books
I forget which one, but one ofthose like about vulnerability,
actually showing up myself as avulnerable person, making myself
(15:05):
vulnerable to the people I workwith asking for feedback,
accepting feedback, listening tofeedback.
As a leader, I think that's oneof the most important things
that we can do, and I do a lotof coaching these days, and
that's it's almost the firstthing that I tell people that I
coach.
Go to your team, go to yourpeers and go to your manager and
just ask them for feedback,like what am I doing really well
(15:25):
and what are probably thecouple of things that I could
get better at?
Right, what do you suck at?
But what can I really getbetter at?
What can I improve?
Because that's incrediblefeedback and most people are
really afraid to ask thatquestion what am I not good at
yet?
And that's a question that Ilove asking myself.
I always ask my own customers,I always ask the people that I
work with.
It's one of my standardquestions and I think that's the
(15:48):
biggest thing that I've learnedover the years.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I love it.
I mean, and you put yet at theend of it what am I not good at
yet, which makes you vulnerablebut open to growth and curiosity
?
You've worked with KLM, airFrance, shell.
What are some lessons you'velearned from working with big
clients like that?
Because you do learn.
So what's the lessons youlearned from working with big
clients like that?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So I still work with big clients.
I do some interim work as well.
What I'm seeing is that theshift between the corporates the
big corporates and the startupsI do a lot of work for the
startup world as well that gapit seems to be getting bigger
and bigger almost every year.
The corporates are often slowmoving and I think that's really
(16:31):
where they're struggling.
I've learned so much from theyears that I worked with those
big companies.
I got to do the most amazingprojects.
For example, if you look at acompany like shell, at the time
that I worked for them, they hadover 300,000 people working for
them all across the world.
So I would run a small projectand it would affect the lives of
10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 peopleimmediately, just because of the
(16:54):
projects, the size of thecompany that I was working for,
and it's amazing to learn fromthe people that I was working
for and it's amazing to learnfrom the people that work there
in a company like that of thatsize.
But I feel today, and I don'tknow where the world is going to
, I still see those samecorporates and it's almost feels
like they're moving slower andslower.
In the technology space whereyou see, on the other hand, you
(17:15):
have the tech giants and they'restill, even, despite their size
, the Googles, the apples andthe metas of the world.
Despite their size, they'removing at incredible pace.
And you see the corporates andin their technology departments
they haven't adjusted to thatsame pace.
And that gap between where theworld is going and where the
world is technology-wise andwhere those companies are, it's
(17:36):
growing up.
But also that creates enormousopportunities for smaller
companies, smaller entrepreneurs, because they can step into
that space, because they are alot quicker on their feet, they
can move faster.
So I think it's going to be acool future for smaller
companies.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, yes, I love that you're sharing.
I mean so.
You had the experience, andevery client is an experience.
You learn and grow with them aswell as helping them.
If a corporate is listening andthat gap is getting wider, how
fast they pick up pace to startmaking these changes?
What recommendations do youmake to?
Because you're right, I mean wego to some and they're lagging
behind on technology because ofbudget or because of hesitation
or because of fear.
There are multiple reasons.
(18:11):
What advice do you share withcorporates that listen to this
podcast about how not to letthat gap continue to get wider?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So I usually coach on the other side.
I coach on the technology side,and what I tell the CTOs or the
CIOs that I work with, I reallytell them that they need to go
and inspire their boards.
So we have a lot of people inboards that aren't completely in
the tech space.
They don't know everythingabout technology and, of course,
they can't because they have abusiness to run.
(18:39):
They need to care about finance, about customers, about supply
chain, about everything else inthe world.
Technology may not be at thetop of their mind yet, and I
feel that that's the job of theCIO, the CTO, to change that.
So they should really go andget on the board.
I'm a big fan of having atechnology person on the board,
so we still have a lot ofcompanies, large corporates,
(19:00):
where the CIO or the CTO doesn'tsit on the board yet.
They report into the CFO, forexample, and technology is seen
as just a supporting function,and I think that that's the
first thing that needs to change.
You need to have a technologyperson sitting on the board next
to the rest of your C-suite.
So I'd say that's number oneDon't let it report into finance
(19:20):
and don't dismiss it as anothersupporting function, which is
what we see quite a bit in thebigger corporates.
So change that, put it on theboard and listen to what they
have to say.
If you have a CTO or a CIO thatlistens into all the strategy
conversations, all thechallenges that a company has,
all the opportunities that arethere, maybe some acquisitions
(19:40):
that are going to get done ordivestments, it's a critical
role that the CIO or the CTO canplay in those discussions.
So they should be part of thosestrategic board level
discussions.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Wow, love it.
I mean, you're droppingphenomenal data for people to
listen, which is what I loveabout the podcast, because
people walk away with answers,and I want to remind everybody
that's listening that we bothrun businesses.
I love that Mark is sharing,and at the end of this podcast
we're going to tell you how toget in touch with him, so if
there's something he said orshared that you need help with,
I want you to feel that you haveaccess to him, and so we'll
(20:12):
drop information at the end ofit.
So, mark, think about it.
If you were to tell anentrepreneur like me that
doesn't have a huge budget butneeds to have someone techie, so
I don't miss the boat and thegap doesn't get wider what do
you tell an entrepreneur?
That they don't have the budgetor the revenue to bring on a
full-time person to do this?
Where can they start to startmaking some kind of changes in
their business so they don'tmiss the boat?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So a couple of things .
The first, and that's reallywhere it starts, we're seeing a
lot more fractional leadershiproles these days.
So that's not.
It's something that's come upmore and more in the past couple
of years.
If you don't have the budget oreven the need right now for a
full-time technology person onboard budget, or even the need
right now for a full-timetechnology person on board,
there's a lot of fractional CTOsout there.
So see if you can get somebodyfor a day a week, two days a
(21:01):
week, and there's a lot offractional CTOs out there that
are more than willing tocontribute or be part of an
organization for just one or twodays a week.
So that would be the firstrecommendation.
And if that's not an option,you can find a reliable
technology partner to work with,somebody that's going to give
you advice, that's going to giveyou a real trusted partner that
you can work with.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I want to shift over to mentoring or coaching, which
is some of the work that you'redoing.
What qualities do you look forin a leader in a tech space or
leader period you can go eitherdirection with responding to
that question.
But your coaching?
What are some of the qualitiesyou look for in tech leaders?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Most important for me .
So I run a program called theMaverick CTO, and it's called
the Maverick CTO for a reason.
A lot of technology leaders arevery service oriented and they
just wait for their CEO to calland ask them to do something.
I don't believe in that.
So I really think technologyleaders need to be mavericks,
and by maverick I mean theyshould have their own vision,
(21:57):
their own vision for thetechnology in the business that
they work for and what thattechnology can do for their
business.
So that's one and two.
They really need to be boldabout talking to the people
around them.
They need to just take boldsteps, not always wait for it
Sometimes it's better to ask forforgiveness than permission and
just do something.
(22:17):
Show that it can be successful.
Just do something on a smallscale, a small project.
Show that it can be successfulto show to the rest of the board
, the rest of the company, thesuccesses that technology can
actually bring to the business.
So for me, vision, having avision and just being bold about
the things that you do I'mgoing to change again for us.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I've heard the technology, I've heard the
leadership, and you'reconstantly embracing change.
How do you balance the need forspeed and innovation while also
making sure you're payingattention to long-term
sustainability and development?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's a tough one because that second one is
becoming more and more difficultthe long-term sustainability.
It used to be that we couldimplement a new system and we
could run the system for thenext five or 10 years, and I
think that's getting harder andharder.
So the one thing that I alwayspreach is at least make sure
that you're up to date, that allthe systems that you have are
(23:11):
fully up to date.
Your patch, you're on thenewest versions you're on don't
accept any technical debt.
So that's the first one.
So any old systems that are outthere, just start working on
them now and don't accept thatthey get outdated, because it's
going to get worse and worse toreplace them and upgrade them
because the technology is goingfaster and faster.
So that's the first one.
(23:34):
The second one is make adifference between the different
systems that you have.
You will have, like in biggercorporates, you have the core
ERP, which is a really bigsystem.
It takes years to implement andit doesn't give a lot of room
for experimentation or movingfast and it's a really stable
system.
But on the outside you can do alot more with custom
development, continuousdevelopment, for example, if you
have a customer-facing systemor you have a CRM system.
(23:56):
Those are often systems whereyou can do gradual changes and
just continue to develop at asteady pace so you don't stick
behind and you implement all thenew features that you need and
you actually stay up to datewith with all the technology and
what's available out there.
Just, yeah, I think technologyhas become.
It's gone from a place where weused to run projects for a year
(24:18):
and then stop and pause for acouple of years to something
that's that's gradual andongoing.
So the iterations have become alot smaller, but you can't stop
working on the iterations yeah,which I want to unpack a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
How do you help teams prepare for the unpredictable
nature of technology?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It's hard, and the reason it's hard is that what
you see in the teams that I'veworked with in my past as well
you have different types ofpeople.
You have people that really aremost comfortable in a steady
environment, and I thinkespecially for those people it's
hard to deal with thecontinuous change, and it's a
gradual process and it requiresquite a bit from their leaders
(25:01):
or coaches to help them adjustand accept change as a new thing
and a constant.
And then those are the peoplethat you really need to invest
in to make sure that they comealong but also start to embrace
change.
On the other hand, you alsohave a lot of people that enjoy
change and for who it's a goodthing.
I think the most important thingabout change and technological
(25:22):
disruption is that it's andthat's the way that I look at it
it's really interesting, itgives a lot of opportunities.
It gives a lot of opportunities.
It's not a bad thing.
The world is going to changeand that's a given.
You can actually have fun alongthe way.
If you just keep adjusting andkeep adapting and keep making
small changes and learn aboutthe new technology, you can have
a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Just enjoy the change .
Yes, we're going to do two morequestions, and the first is
what advice would you give tosomeone that's their first time
becoming a CTO or their firsttime becoming a leader in tech?
What advice would you sharewith them based on your
experiences?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
So I think first time leader in tech and I coach
quite a few of those people whohave been like a leader for a
year or two years I think take astep back, because the work
that you have is completelydifferent as a first time leader
than the work that you hadbefore as an individual
contributor.
So the advice that I alwaysgive them is your job has
changed.
It's no longer about thedeliverables and the work and
(26:20):
really it is about the team.
It's about growing the team,developing the team, making
their lives slightlyuncomfortable, taking them a bit
out of their comfort zone, butletting them step up a little so
that as a leader, you don'thave to do the work yourself,
but you can really build acredible team that you can
really rely on.
So that's the first step andthat's with a lot of first time
(26:41):
leaders.
Those are the steps that welook at.
How can you delegate, how canyou develop your team?
How can you take a step backand really trust on each of the
members in your team to do thework themselves and maybe run a
small project, run a small task,but really let them step up.
So that's first time leaders ifyou're a cto, and that's maybe
the next step up.
(27:02):
You're leading a bunch ofdifferent teams.
You have some team leadexperience.
It really is all aboutstakeholder management and it is
about talking to.
It's very easy to get stuck injust leading your own teams,
focusing on the technology,focusing on what needs to get
done, instead of focusing on theworld outside.
So my advice to them is look atthe people around you.
(27:25):
Spend at least half your timeoutside of your own team,
outside of your own unit.
Spend time with marketing.
Spend time with sales.
Spend time with HR your ownteam outside of your own unit.
Spend time with marketing.
Spend time with sales.
Spend time with HR, with yourCEO, with your CFO.
Spend time with your customers.
Understand the customers of thebusiness, how they think, what
they do, why they're a customer,and really understand the wider
(27:45):
landscape of the business.
You know the technology as aCTO, you really know the
technology.
You know all of that.
Start learning everything elseand start speaking to everyone
else outside of that You'reright in my lane.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm a people person, so when you said that, I'm like,
yes, how do you get backconnected to these people that
are behind these machines?
And so I love that you'respeaking that language.
So, as we begin to close,before we start putting out
contact information, ifsomeone's listening and they're
trying to figure out whetherthey should give you a call or
reach out to you, what are somethings that they would see
that's happening in theorganization that will say, hey,
(28:18):
give Mark a call.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
So two situations team, but they're not moving at
the pace that you'd like, orthey're not speaking your
language, or it's just not notmoving fast enough, or it seems
to just never work the way youwant it.
I think that's really a time tocall and really I want to work
with that technology leader andreally help them get up to speed
and move faster and do better.
(28:47):
So that's one.
The second if you're anentrepreneur and you don't have
that technology team yet, youreally don't know where to go
for your technology questions.
Just feel free to just schedulean hour with me.
We can have a discussion I'mhappy to do that with any
entrepreneur, just because of mypassion for technology and
let's talk about your business,the technology that you do have,
(29:09):
or where you think technologycould really benefit your
organization.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I need to schedule a call after this just because I
don't have technology and we'redoing well and we are, you know,
in full transparency for peoplethat are listening.
We're trying to figure out whatexactly what you're talking
about, Like how do we leverageit and use it?
Well, Because we're notleveraging it and we're probably
working harder than we shouldand so we need to figure it out.
So, for all of you that arelistening, if you're like me in
Global Core, we're trying tofigure it out, Don't do it by
(29:35):
yourself, you know.
So you'll have Mark's contactinformation, which I'm going to
say now.
You know you're running theprogram, so can you speak to the
program and then tell peoplehow to reach you.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So for technology leaders, the program that I run
is the Maverick CTO.
It's quite easy, themaverickctocom.
You can go there.
You can download our free CTOcompass that we have a couple of
guides that you can use on yourown or just schedule a call
with me and get introduced andwe can talk about it.
If you're an entrepreneur andyou're looking for technology
advice, tairi T-A-I-R-Ico is thecompany that I run.
It's my business and it'sreally where we help
entrepreneurs.
You can book a call right there.
So feel free to go to thewebsite and just book a call
with me, schedule something, andI'm happy to get on a call and
(30:17):
see what we can do.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Thank you.
Any last minute thing that wedid not cover that I may not
have asked, that you arepassionate about that you want
to share before we begin to wrapup, no, I think we covered
everything.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I really enjoyed the discussion, thanks.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, you did a phenomenal job and, for those of
you that are listening, we'resuper excited about what we
bring.
We want to add value.
I mean, how do we help businessowners and entrepreneurs?
And you and I have that incommon, mark.
I love helping entrepreneurs.
I love helping them figure outhow to close the wealth gap, how
to make money, how to befinancially secure and that's
(30:53):
what business is really about,and there's a smart way to do it
.
And you don't have to make themistakes that you and I may have
made.
Mark in business and flying andnavigating and trying to figure
it out, leverage people like us.
Reach out to me or reach out toMark.
I will be happy.
You can always find me.
With Global Course Strategiesand Consulting, my primary
source of communication is myemail or you go to our company's
website and it gives you anopportunity, just like Mark, to
reach out to us.
We love to help.
(31:13):
We are business owners, we lovehelping entrepreneurs, and so
thank y'all for joining us.
It's been a pleasure to be ofservice to you once again and to
share some really, really greatinsight around technology,
which all of us are asking andfor our guests.
Technology is not just AI.
It's more to it than just that,and I know that's the buzzword,
but it's so much more to it, sodon't get caught up like use it
, know it, but there's more toit than just the word AI.
(31:36):
So you want to become smart inyour business.
So thank y'all for joining.
It's always a pleasure.
Mark, thank you for being withus and sharing your programs and
your wisdom, and for you thatare following us, please share
our podcast and information withanyone that you think can
benefit from what we're doing werelease every Monday.
Thank y'all, and Mark and Iwill, until next time, tell you
have a phenomenal 2025 and welook forward to talking to you
(31:57):
again.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(32:20):
leadership.
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Good morning.
This is Ron Harvey.
I'm the vice president andchief operating officer for
Global Core Strategies andConsulting, which is a
leadership sustainability firmwhere we help leaders be better
connected to their workforce sothat the people that are helping
them be successful they'retaken care of and making sure
they have everything all theresources and the support that
they need.
We spend all of our timehelping leaders be better
connected to the people that aregoing to make you successful or
(00:52):
break you from being successful.
We believe in leadership everyday.
Based out of Columbia, southCarolina, my wife and I have
been in business over 10 years,love what we do.
We're passionate about it.
We both have a militarybackground, so we love serving.
Our entire business is aboutserving other people to be
successful.
But we pause every single day,and every Monday we release a
podcast, and today I have aphenomenal guest.
(01:12):
Mark is going to be joining us.
He'll tell you who he is, wherehe's at, and I'm excited about
having people with allbackgrounds from across the
globe to say yes to this podcast.
The beauty is, I don't knowwhat I'm going to ask them.
I don't know what they're goingto say.
All we'll promise you is we'regoing to talk about leadership,
so hang on for the ride.
Stay with us.
We'll spend about 30 minuteswith you, but we're really going
to share real insights behindthe curtain.
(01:34):
That's why it's called Unpacked.
So, mark, I'm going to hand youthe microphone and we're going
to jump in after you finishintroducing yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Hey, ron, good day and thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure to behere.
So a bit about myself, mybackground, mark, I live in the
Netherlands, so indeed, theother side of the ocean, based
in Central Europe, and mybackground is in technology.
So I've been in tech for all ofmy life.
What I do today, I havebasically two businesses.
I run Tyree, which is one of mybusinesses, where I provide IT
(02:02):
services to startups andscale-ups.
We do a lot of softwaredevelopments, ai services, data
engineering, and I also and thisis what I love doing I coach
tech leaders, so people in techcompanies that are in a
leadership position, from asmall CTO to, like corporate
leaders in bigger companies.
I coach them on theirleadership and on their skills,
(02:23):
and that's why I really lovebeing here as well today.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, thank you for joining andso, like I tell you, we're
global, we believe in reachingacross the ocean in different
places and communities, so Ilove that you're going to come
across and talk leadership, likeyou said your background.
So let me dive in a little bitfor you.
When you think of techcompanies and you think about
you started, terry, in your CTOprogram.
What made you start it?
What did you see as an issue orconcern that made you lean in?
(02:48):
This is where you want to spendyour time.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So those are two different things.
First, I love technology.
So I've been in the tech spacefor 30 years and it's my passion
and that's really why I startedthe company.
I mean, tech is just it's inevery company today.
It's gone through such aphenomenal growth over the past
years that every company dependson technology today and it's
becoming more and more complex.
And it's my passion, it's whatI love and I love.
(03:13):
I love helping others withtechnology and providing
services and just I speak to alot of entrepreneurs that want
to make better use of technology.
They just don't know how, theydon't know where to start and I
love helping entrepreneurs.
And the other part is also theleadership parts.
Like I said, I've been in aleadership position in
technology, so my background isin corpus as well.
(03:33):
I've been.
I worked for accenture inconsulting.
After that I had some majorleadership quotes in large
corporates and I grew into my,my leadership skills as and
especially in technology.
That's quite a tough skill forpeople because they grow up as
developers, they know servers,they know codes.
Going from there to leading ateam, leading a set of teams and
(03:55):
leading a department those aresome big steps to grow into and
I love just helping people onthe road.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Let me unpack that a little bit for you.
As you know, you have thebackground in technology and you
started getting promoted orelevated to this leadership
thing.
What were some of thechallenges of going from the
subject matter expert intechnology to being an expert of
people, which is what I'll tellleaders.
They have to be really good atleading and knowing people well.
What were some of thechallenges for you, For our tech
people that are listening, thatmay be on the journey that you
(04:23):
had to go through?
What were some of your biggestchallenges of making that
transition?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
To be fair, I got a very long way without knowing
people, without just deliveringthe work, getting the work done,
managing people right, as wesay, just managing finances,
budget managing a team, justgetting the work done.
I got a very long way until atsome point, I did trip, like
many people do along this road,and I figured out that it's good
(04:49):
to have an interest in people,but just actually caring about
the people that you work with,taking a true human interest in
them, like understanding whothey are, what their passions
are, what their ambitions are,giving feedback on a human level
instead of just following theprocess.
Yeah, I think that's one of my,and I think it's a trip up that
maybe some of us, or a lot ofus, make on the journey, but
(05:12):
it's one that I certainly made,yeah, how do you define really
great leadership in tech space?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Now that you're in that space and you realize you
have tech, how do you definereally great leadership?
What does it look like in thetech space?
Exceptional leadership.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
So in the tech space, like I said, it's just so
complex.
So the tech space requiresreally good leadership.
Team leadership is critical.
Right, you have a team or a setof team leads that report to
you.
You need to manage them, youneed to care about the culture,
you need to care about the humanbeings, you need to care about
their ambitions and the cultureand the team and, working
(05:47):
together, solve issues as theyarise.
So the team leadership is likeany leadership position is a
critical part of it.
The other part of it is youneed to understand the
technology.
I come across and technology isso incredibly broad that makes
it really hard.
So you need to go anywhere frominfrastructure to applications,
to codes, to ai these days, tocyber security, and you need to
(06:10):
understand all the differentbits and pieces as you grow up
in leadership and technology.
So it's a very broad technicalrole as well.
So I say that's the second part.
You get all the otherleadership fun items like budget
, financials, understanding,like all those aspects and, on
top of that, managing all yourstakeholders.
You need to be able to have adiscussion with the CEO or a CFO
(06:32):
and talk about technology.
You need to explain technologyto them in a way that they
understand that makes sense.
If you have ideas or plans, youneed to be able to explain them
in business talk.
You need to talk about ROIs.
You need to talk about budgets.
Explain them in business talk.
You need to talk about RIs.
You need to talk about budgets,about CapEx versus OpEx.
You need to be able to have allthose discussions at a CFO or a
CEO level.
So it's such an incrediblybroad space to be in and I think
(06:56):
that's why it's so interestingto me.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yes, I think you're tapping on a lot of things that
I want to unpack a little bitwith you AI, every conversation.
I mean, I've been doing thispodcast for a while and I can
tell you in the last six monthsI don't think I've had a podcast
that AI term did not show up.
So when you think of leadership, you think of AI.
What are some of the nuancesthat's shifting the space for
leaders when it comes to AI andtechnology?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So if I talk about, let me talk about tech
leadership, right, becausethat's the space that I am, and
then I'll talk about it forentrepreneurs In tech leadership
.
So first of all, you need toreally understand AI and we all.
I mean I've seen a graph aboutthe type of people and the
different generations that useAI and there's actually not even
that big a difference betweenGen Z or boomers.
I mean they all will go andeven like mom and pop, they will
(07:46):
go on chat, gpt, they'll promptsomething, they'll do something
.
So a lot of people know what aiis or roughly what it can do,
and that's based on their ownconsumer experiences.
And as a CTO or as a techleader, you need to be able to
make the translation from allthe different capabilities that
there are in AI and translatethat into what is possible for
your business, your organization.
(08:06):
So translate it from atechnology into an opportunity
in sales and marketing andlogistics and delivery and
manufacturing.
In manufacturing, depending onthe company you're in, you
really need to have that broaddiscussion and be able to
understand ai in all thedifferent service lines in your
company and be able to explainthat and have a discussion again
(08:29):
with the board about what ispossible, what you can do and
what you want to do.
I think that's one, and fromthere I'm a big fan of running
small pilots.
So we all want to go and deployAI at scale, which is really
cool, but I always promote doingreally small pilots.
Think about a big problem youhave as a business, see where AI
(08:49):
can actually go and solve thatand do a small pilot and a small
pilot doesn't have to beexpensive for 5K or 10K.
You can probably do a prettydecent pilot and see if it is
actually going to solve yourproblem.
Also, ai is moving so fast thatyou can't run a three-year
program anymore.
So you can't, because in threeyears the world's going to be
completely different.
So everything you do needs tobe short-term, it needs to be
(09:11):
quick, quick turnarounds, lowerbudgets and get realization of
value very quickly.
So that's, if you're in thetech space and I think the same
for entrepreneurs, because it isgetting so complex I say, if
you don't have someone in yourvicinity that understands this
space really, really well, findthem.
Either hire a, a part-time cto,on board, or bring a, a
(09:33):
consultancy firm, in, or hiresomeone in your team.
Make sure that you have someonewho can really stand by you and
help you with all of thistechnology, because it is so
complex.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I love that and I think that's worth repeating
too.
When you think about it, mark,is it's moving so fast and I'd
love you to emphasize theimportance of that, because the
days of you having five years orthree years now to wait for
something to come to fruition isnot reality anymore.
Can you speak to the speed ofchange and the speed of
technology and what do we needto do as leaders to embrace it?
(10:07):
Because there's some fear weknow people are intimidated by,
but there has to be some levelof how do I get comfortable even
though I'm nervous and unsure.
How do you speak to that?
Because it's moving fast, it'snot going to wait for us.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yes, no, and I think that's how the tech world has
changed.
About 10 years ago, it wasquite normal that you would
source a new contract and youwould have a contract for the
next five years, or you wouldoutsource something, or you
would run a large transformationprogram in technology that
would run three to five years.
I think those days are gone.
It's going to be reallydifficult to right now plan for
(10:41):
what's going to happen in 2030.
In five years from today, we'rein 2030.
I can't tell you what theworld's going to look like, what
the technology space is goingto look like.
So having large, multi-million,multi-year programs, I think, is
maybe something of the pastthat will still be there, but
they're going to be a lot less.
Instead, have really smallprojects, have really small
iterations, do pilots and justmove quickly, but make it really
(11:02):
small.
Keep it small, keep itcontainable, keep it affordable
and just make really smalliterative changes and learn as
you go.
So try something, test it out.
Does it work?
Great, we're going to build ontop of it.
If it doesn't work, scratch itand try something else.
So I think that's really thechange in leadership it's a lot
faster, it's iterative and it'sa lot shorter term.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Awesome.
What do you see as some of thelow-hanging fruit?
So you work with entrepreneurs,you're in the tech space and
you have a really nice blend ofskillset.
You know, very rarely do youhave someone that's tech in
leadership, helpingentrepreneurs and doing this.
What's the low-hanging fruit?
So if someone's listening tothis and they're small business
(11:45):
on an entrepreneur, so I'mleaning in that space for them,
what's the low-hanging fruit for?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
entrepreneurs leveraging technology.
So I think what a lot ofentrepreneurs are probably
already doing I'm in quite a fewentrepreneur groups or
communities as well.
Actually, quite a few of themare just using like chatPT to
create a content schedule, forexample, to create a sales
approach, to create a marketingapproach, and you can just.
I love using things like thatfor just even brainstorming.
(12:08):
So I'm not always the mostcreative mind.
I love using it forbrainstorming.
So if I need 10 ideas forsomething, I will always ask
ChatGPT first.
I can Google the internet.
It's going to take me an houror two hours and just ask the
question first.
So I think that's what a lot ofentrepreneurs are already using
for today, and all the modelsare getting a lot better and
they're so much better now thanthey were a year ago.
(12:30):
So the answers are improvingrapidly as well, which is good.
So I think a lot of theconsumer type tools that are out
there like chat, gpt, likeclaude, like gemini are already
being used by a lot ofentrepreneurs.
If you're not using it yet, I'dsay we get on board, because
everybody else already is, butit's not extremely difficult.
I think by a couple of ouryoutube video you can figure out
(12:50):
how to use it for sales ormarketing or deliveries.
That's that first one, and thesecond one is really when you
have, as an entrepreneur, youhave business challenges, so
either you will need more leadsor you want more sales, or maybe
you need to optimize your teamor your supply chain.
There are different AI basedsolutions for all of those
spaces.
(13:10):
I think the trap that a lot ofpeople fall into is taking the
technology and seeing whatproblem we can solve, instead of
turning it around looking atyour business like what are the
challenges that you have in yourbusiness from finance, supply
chain, marketing, sales andseeing how can you implement AI
to solve that problem andimprove your churn, your
(13:30):
customer retention, yourcustomer happiness, satisfaction
, like how can you improve thoseusing AI?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, I mean, and if you're listening and you're
watching, I'm a golden nuggetbecause you dropped something
that's super important is how doyou look at your own business
and your own problems and let AIhelp you get better at taking
care of your customers at theend of the day?
I want to pivot a little bitand talk about you.
You've been in this businessindustry for over 30 years
nearly 30 years anyway.
How has your leadership styleevolved over time?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Quite a bit, I would say.
And mostly, like I said in thebeginning, I was this.
Really, especially in myconsulting days, I would say
give me a team, give me a budget, I'll get it done.
That's the kind of leader andthat's also maybe quite fitting
for someone in consulting.
That was my management style.
Right, I could get any projectdone as long as you gave me a
budget or a team and I'd get itdone.
Didn't matter what the problemwas, we'd get it done.
(14:20):
So that was really my originalleadership style Get stuff done,
which I think is good in theearly days of your career.
Over time, that's graduallychanged.
I've broadened my skills intofinance, into larger programs,
into bigger teams and then alsointo people management, and
that's really where I've madeprobably the biggest steps in
(14:42):
the last 10 years, becausethat's the really hard part, or
at least it was for me thepeople management.
So talking to people, talkingabout their weekends, talking
about their families, theirambitions, listening.
I've read a lot of amazingbooks.
My journey actually startedwith one of Brene Brown's books
I forget which one, but one ofthose like about vulnerability,
actually showing up myself as avulnerable person, making myself
(15:05):
vulnerable to the people I workwith asking for feedback,
accepting feedback, listening tofeedback.
As a leader, I think that's oneof the most important things
that we can do, and I do a lotof coaching these days, and
that's it's almost the firstthing that I tell people that I
coach.
Go to your team, go to yourpeers and go to your manager and
just ask them for feedback,like what am I doing really well
(15:25):
and what are probably thecouple of things that I could
get better at?
Right, what do you suck at?
But what can I really getbetter at?
What can I improve?
Because that's incrediblefeedback and most people are
really afraid to ask thatquestion what am I not good at
yet?
And that's a question that Ilove asking myself.
I always ask my own customers,I always ask the people that I
work with.
It's one of my standardquestions and I think that's the
(15:48):
biggest thing that I've learnedover the years.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I love it.
I mean, and you put yet at theend of it what am I not good at
yet, which makes you vulnerablebut open to growth and curiosity
?
You've worked with KLM, airFrance, shell.
What are some lessons you'velearned from working with big
clients like that?
Because you do learn.
So what's the lessons youlearned from working with big
clients like that?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So I still work with big clients.
I do some interim work as well.
What I'm seeing is that theshift between the corporates the
big corporates and the startupsI do a lot of work for the
startup world as well that gapit seems to be getting bigger
and bigger almost every year.
The corporates are often slowmoving and I think that's really
(16:31):
where they're struggling.
I've learned so much from theyears that I worked with those
big companies.
I got to do the most amazingprojects.
For example, if you look at acompany like shell, at the time
that I worked for them, they hadover 300,000 people working for
them all across the world.
So I would run a small projectand it would affect the lives of
10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 peopleimmediately, just because of the
(16:54):
projects, the size of thecompany that I was working for,
and it's amazing to learn fromthe people that I was working
for and it's amazing to learnfrom the people that work there
in a company like that of thatsize.
But I feel today, and I don'tknow where the world is going to
, I still see those samecorporates and it's almost feels
like they're moving slower andslower.
In the technology space whereyou see, on the other hand, you
(17:15):
have the tech giants and they'restill, even, despite their size
, the Googles, the apples andthe metas of the world.
Despite their size, they'removing at incredible pace.
And you see the corporates andin their technology departments
they haven't adjusted to thatsame pace.
And that gap between where theworld is going and where the
world is technology-wise andwhere those companies are, it's
(17:36):
growing up.
But also that creates enormousopportunities for smaller
companies, smaller entrepreneurs, because they can step into
that space, because they are alot quicker on their feet, they
can move faster.
So I think it's going to be acool future for smaller
companies.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, yes, I love that you're sharing.
I mean so.
You had the experience, andevery client is an experience.
You learn and grow with them aswell as helping them.
If a corporate is listening andthat gap is getting wider, how
fast they pick up pace to startmaking these changes?
What recommendations do youmake to?
Because you're right, I mean wego to some and they're lagging
behind on technology because ofbudget or because of hesitation
or because of fear.
There are multiple reasons.
(18:11):
What advice do you share withcorporates that listen to this
podcast about how not to letthat gap continue to get wider?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So I usually coach on the other side.
I coach on the technology side,and what I tell the CTOs or the
CIOs that I work with, I reallytell them that they need to go
and inspire their boards.
So we have a lot of people inboards that aren't completely in
the tech space.
They don't know everythingabout technology and, of course,
they can't because they have abusiness to run.
(18:39):
They need to care about finance, about customers, about supply
chain, about everything else inthe world.
Technology may not be at thetop of their mind yet, and I
feel that that's the job of theCIO, the CTO, to change that.
So they should really go andget on the board.
I'm a big fan of having atechnology person on the board,
so we still have a lot ofcompanies, large corporates,
(19:00):
where the CIO or the CTO doesn'tsit on the board yet.
They report into the CFO, forexample, and technology is seen
as just a supporting function,and I think that that's the
first thing that needs to change.
You need to have a technologyperson sitting on the board next
to the rest of your C-suite.
So I'd say that's number oneDon't let it report into finance
(19:20):
and don't dismiss it as anothersupporting function, which is
what we see quite a bit in thebigger corporates.
So change that, put it on theboard and listen to what they
have to say.
If you have a CTO or a CIO thatlistens into all the strategy
conversations, all thechallenges that a company has,
all the opportunities that arethere, maybe some acquisitions
(19:40):
that are going to get done ordivestments, it's a critical
role that the CIO or the CTO canplay in those discussions.
So they should be part of thosestrategic board level
discussions.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Wow, love it.
I mean, you're droppingphenomenal data for people to
listen, which is what I loveabout the podcast, because
people walk away with answers,and I want to remind everybody
that's listening that we bothrun businesses.
I love that Mark is sharing,and at the end of this podcast
we're going to tell you how toget in touch with him, so if
there's something he said orshared that you need help with,
I want you to feel that you haveaccess to him, and so we'll
(20:12):
drop information at the end ofit.
So, mark, think about it.
If you were to tell anentrepreneur like me that
doesn't have a huge budget butneeds to have someone techie, so
I don't miss the boat and thegap doesn't get wider what do
you tell an entrepreneur?
That they don't have the budgetor the revenue to bring on a
full-time person to do this?
Where can they start to startmaking some kind of changes in
their business so they don'tmiss the boat?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So a couple of things .
The first, and that's reallywhere it starts, we're seeing a
lot more fractional leadershiproles these days.
So that's not.
It's something that's come upmore and more in the past couple
of years.
If you don't have the budget oreven the need right now for a
full-time technology person onboard budget, or even the need
right now for a full-timetechnology person on board,
there's a lot of fractional CTOsout there.
So see if you can get somebodyfor a day a week, two days a
(21:01):
week, and there's a lot offractional CTOs out there that
are more than willing tocontribute or be part of an
organization for just one or twodays a week.
So that would be the firstrecommendation.
And if that's not an option,you can find a reliable
technology partner to work with,somebody that's going to give
you advice, that's going to giveyou a real trusted partner that
you can work with.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I want to shift over to mentoring or coaching, which
is some of the work that you'redoing.
What qualities do you look forin a leader in a tech space or
leader period you can go eitherdirection with responding to
that question.
But your coaching?
What are some of the qualitiesyou look for in tech leaders?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Most important for me .
So I run a program called theMaverick CTO, and it's called
the Maverick CTO for a reason.
A lot of technology leaders arevery service oriented and they
just wait for their CEO to calland ask them to do something.
I don't believe in that.
So I really think technologyleaders need to be mavericks,
and by maverick I mean theyshould have their own vision,
(21:57):
their own vision for thetechnology in the business that
they work for and what thattechnology can do for their
business.
So that's one and two.
They really need to be boldabout talking to the people
around them.
They need to just take boldsteps, not always wait for it
Sometimes it's better to ask forforgiveness than permission and
just do something.
(22:17):
Show that it can be successful.
Just do something on a smallscale, a small project.
Show that it can be successfulto show to the rest of the board
, the rest of the company, thesuccesses that technology can
actually bring to the business.
So for me, vision, having avision and just being bold about
the things that you do I'mgoing to change again for us.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I've heard the technology, I've heard the
leadership, and you'reconstantly embracing change.
How do you balance the need forspeed and innovation while also
making sure you're payingattention to long-term
sustainability and development?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's a tough one because that second one is
becoming more and more difficultthe long-term sustainability.
It used to be that we couldimplement a new system and we
could run the system for thenext five or 10 years, and I
think that's getting harder andharder.
So the one thing that I alwayspreach is at least make sure
that you're up to date, that allthe systems that you have are
(23:11):
fully up to date.
Your patch, you're on thenewest versions you're on don't
accept any technical debt.
So that's the first one.
So any old systems that are outthere, just start working on
them now and don't accept thatthey get outdated, because it's
going to get worse and worse toreplace them and upgrade them
because the technology is goingfaster and faster.
So that's the first one.
(23:34):
The second one is make adifference between the different
systems that you have.
You will have, like in biggercorporates, you have the core
ERP, which is a really bigsystem.
It takes years to implement andit doesn't give a lot of room
for experimentation or movingfast and it's a really stable
system.
But on the outside you can do alot more with custom
development, continuousdevelopment, for example, if you
have a customer-facing systemor you have a CRM system.
(23:56):
Those are often systems whereyou can do gradual changes and
just continue to develop at asteady pace so you don't stick
behind and you implement all thenew features that you need and
you actually stay up to datewith with all the technology and
what's available out there.
Just, yeah, I think technologyhas become.
It's gone from a place where weused to run projects for a year
(24:18):
and then stop and pause for acouple of years to something
that's that's gradual andongoing.
So the iterations have become alot smaller, but you can't stop
working on the iterations yeah,which I want to unpack a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
How do you help teams prepare for the unpredictable
nature of technology?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It's hard, and the reason it's hard is that what
you see in the teams that I'veworked with in my past as well
you have different types ofpeople.
You have people that really aremost comfortable in a steady
environment, and I thinkespecially for those people it's
hard to deal with thecontinuous change, and it's a
gradual process and it requiresquite a bit from their leaders
(25:01):
or coaches to help them adjustand accept change as a new thing
and a constant.
And then those are the peoplethat you really need to invest
in to make sure that they comealong but also start to embrace
change.
On the other hand, you alsohave a lot of people that enjoy
change and for who it's a goodthing.
I think the most important thingabout change and technological
(25:22):
disruption is that it's andthat's the way that I look at it
it's really interesting, itgives a lot of opportunities.
It gives a lot of opportunities.
It's not a bad thing.
The world is going to changeand that's a given.
You can actually have fun alongthe way.
If you just keep adjusting andkeep adapting and keep making
small changes and learn aboutthe new technology, you can have
a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Just enjoy the change .
Yes, we're going to do two morequestions, and the first is
what advice would you give tosomeone that's their first time
becoming a CTO or their firsttime becoming a leader in tech?
What advice would you sharewith them based on your
experiences?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
So I think first time leader in tech and I coach
quite a few of those people whohave been like a leader for a
year or two years I think take astep back, because the work
that you have is completelydifferent as a first time leader
than the work that you hadbefore as an individual
contributor.
So the advice that I alwaysgive them is your job has
changed.
It's no longer about thedeliverables and the work and
(26:20):
really it is about the team.
It's about growing the team,developing the team, making
their lives slightlyuncomfortable, taking them a bit
out of their comfort zone, butletting them step up a little so
that as a leader, you don'thave to do the work yourself,
but you can really build acredible team that you can
really rely on.
So that's the first step andthat's with a lot of first time
(26:41):
leaders.
Those are the steps that welook at.
How can you delegate, how canyou develop your team?
How can you take a step backand really trust on each of the
members in your team to do thework themselves and maybe run a
small project, run a small task,but really let them step up.
So that's first time leaders ifyou're a cto, and that's maybe
the next step up.
(27:02):
You're leading a bunch ofdifferent teams.
You have some team leadexperience.
It really is all aboutstakeholder management and it is
about talking to.
It's very easy to get stuck injust leading your own teams,
focusing on the technology,focusing on what needs to get
done, instead of focusing on theworld outside.
So my advice to them is look atthe people around you.
(27:25):
Spend at least half your timeoutside of your own team,
outside of your own unit.
Spend time with marketing.
Spend time with sales.
Spend time with HR your ownteam outside of your own unit.
Spend time with marketing.
Spend time with sales.
Spend time with HR, with yourCEO, with your CFO.
Spend time with your customers.
Understand the customers of thebusiness, how they think, what
they do, why they're a customer,and really understand the wider
(27:45):
landscape of the business.
You know the technology as aCTO, you really know the
technology.
You know all of that.
Start learning everything elseand start speaking to everyone
else outside of that You'reright in my lane.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm a people person, so when you said that, I'm like,
yes, how do you get backconnected to these people that
are behind these machines?
And so I love that you'respeaking that language.
So, as we begin to close,before we start putting out
contact information, ifsomeone's listening and they're
trying to figure out whetherthey should give you a call or
reach out to you, what are somethings that they would see
that's happening in theorganization that will say, hey,
(28:18):
give Mark a call.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
So two situations team, but they're not moving at
the pace that you'd like, orthey're not speaking your
language, or it's just not notmoving fast enough, or it seems
to just never work the way youwant it.
I think that's really a time tocall and really I want to work
with that technology leader andreally help them get up to speed
and move faster and do better.
(28:47):
So that's one.
The second if you're anentrepreneur and you don't have
that technology team yet, youreally don't know where to go
for your technology questions.
Just feel free to just schedulean hour with me.
We can have a discussion I'mhappy to do that with any
entrepreneur, just because of mypassion for technology and
let's talk about your business,the technology that you do have,
(29:09):
or where you think technologycould really benefit your
organization.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I need to schedule a call after this just because I
don't have technology and we'redoing well and we are, you know,
in full transparency for peoplethat are listening.
We're trying to figure out whatexactly what you're talking
about, Like how do we leverageit and use it?
Well, Because we're notleveraging it and we're probably
working harder than we shouldand so we need to figure it out.
So, for all of you that arelistening, if you're like me in
Global Core, we're trying tofigure it out, Don't do it by
(29:35):
yourself, you know.
So you'll have Mark's contactinformation, which I'm going to
say now.
You know you're running theprogram, so can you speak to the
program and then tell peoplehow to reach you.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So for technology leaders, the program that I run
is the Maverick CTO.
It's quite easy, themaverickctocom.
You can go there.
You can download our free CTOcompass that we have a couple of
guides that you can use on yourown or just schedule a call
with me and get introduced andwe can talk about it.
If you're an entrepreneur andyou're looking for technology
advice, tairi T-A-I-R-Ico is thecompany that I run.
It's my business and it'sreally where we help
entrepreneurs.
You can book a call right there.
So feel free to go to thewebsite and just book a call
with me, schedule something, andI'm happy to get on a call and
(30:17):
see what we can do.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Thank you.
Any last minute thing that wedid not cover that I may not
have asked, that you arepassionate about that you want
to share before we begin to wrapup, no, I think we covered
everything.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I really enjoyed the discussion, thanks.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, you did a phenomenal job and, for those of
you that are listening, we'resuper excited about what we
bring.
We want to add value.
I mean, how do we help businessowners and entrepreneurs?
And you and I have that incommon, mark.
I love helping entrepreneurs.
I love helping them figure outhow to close the wealth gap, how
to make money, how to befinancially secure and that's
(30:53):
what business is really about,and there's a smart way to do it
.
And you don't have to make themistakes that you and I may have
made.
Mark in business and flying andnavigating and trying to figure
it out, leverage people like us.
Reach out to me or reach out toMark.
I will be happy.
You can always find me.
With Global Course Strategiesand Consulting, my primary
source of communication is myemail or you go to our company's
website and it gives you anopportunity, just like Mark, to
reach out to us.
We love to help.
(31:13):
We are business owners, we lovehelping entrepreneurs, and so
thank y'all for joining us.
It's been a pleasure to be ofservice to you once again and to
share some really, really greatinsight around technology,
which all of us are asking andfor our guests.
Technology is not just AI.
It's more to it than just that,and I know that's the buzzword,
but it's so much more to it, sodon't get caught up like use it
, know it, but there's more toit than just the word AI.
(31:36):
So you want to become smart inyour business.
So thank y'all for joining.
It's always a pleasure.
Mark, thank you for being withus and sharing your programs and
your wisdom, and for you thatare following us, please share
our podcast and information withanyone that you think can
benefit from what we're doing werelease every Monday.
Thank y'all, and Mark and Iwill, until next time, tell you
have a phenomenal 2025 and welook forward to talking to you
(31:57):
again.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(32:20):
leadership.
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