April 21, 2025 • 53 mins
Adam Malone shares his journey from technical expert to people-focused leader, revealing how his personal awakening on a flight to San Francisco transformed his leadership philosophy. He delivers five practical leadership behaviors that create lasting impact through consistent, daily application rather than occasional grand gestures.
• Making the emotional shift from being the expert with all answers to empowering teams for greater impact
• Using 360-degree feedback as a catalyst for personal growth, even when feedback is painful
• Building social capital through authentic relationships with peers and direct reports
• Asking qualitative questions rather than quantitative ones to generate deeper insights
• Embracing "yes, and" or "yes, if" thinking instead of defaulting to "no" as a leader
• Caring genuinely about your people as the foundation for business success
Text "operator" to 33777 to join Adam's leadership newsletter, or connect with him on LinkedIn where he shares leadership insights daily.
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
Learn more about Global Core Strategies
.
.
.
.
.
Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Good morning.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting.
Our firm basically does workaround leadership.
We're a professional serviceleadership firm and we spend all
our time helping leaders bebetter connected to the people
that help them be great atgetting things done in their
organizations.
So we spend most of our time.
How do they stay betterconnected to those that make
them successful, and that'sthrough communication or
(00:51):
conflict or building ordevelopment.
You know so there are multipleways and I enjoy it as an
organization that we get to helpleaders take better care of
their people that they'reresponsible for and responsible
to.
But our podcast that we do isreally we bring in leaders from
around the world.
We release the episode everysingle Monday and we bring
leaders from all backgrounds,all walks of life, to share some
(01:11):
of the wisdom and the knowledgeand the nuggets that they've
had, that they've learned and sobest practices.
So hang on as we go throughthis podcast and we talk about
our businesses and people.
We bring on our business owners, just like we are.
So we're only successfulbecause people use our services.
We promote books, we talk aboutour services, our programs and
we share some secrets to what wedo internally.
We don't give you all theanswers and the ingredients,
(01:32):
because we love for you to useour service, but we do share
enough to make you curious thatyou may want to have another
conversation.
So I'm really excited to haveAdam Malone with me.
So, adam, I'm going to hand youthe microphone as we dive in
and let you introduce yourselfand anything you want us to know
about you.
That I've read, but theyhaven't heard yet.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Sure, thanks for the intro.
Appreciate that I am coming offabout a 20-year career in the
corporate world.
17 years of that all at onelocation or one operation moved
from analyst to VP in that time,from leading none to leading
4,000.
And so when people ask me whatmakes me different, there's a
(02:11):
lot of leadership consultantsyou can find out in the world.
Why should they talk to Adam?
My answer is generally youcan't find a lot of operational
leaders who've made the jumpinto consulting.
I don't have an HR background,necessarily.
I think leadership is superimportant, but I've also, you
know, been on the ground solvingthe problems that come from
(02:32):
boxes not shipping to differentparts of the world, to customers
not getting what they need to.
You know all the things youhave when you, you know, run a
$4 billion P&L, and so theleadership consultant that has
led a 4,000 person organization.
And my goal in all things is tohelp create more great leaders,
because my core belief is thatgreat leadership is what we need
(02:56):
in almost every facet of ourlife, whether personal,
professional, political,whatever.
A lot of our problems stem froma lack of great leaders, and so
I believe that it's up to us tosolve that problem and invest
in the world so that we can havemore great leadership in every
facet of our life.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, adam, I mean that's a whole lot you gave me
to unpack and so you will gothrough.
You know what I love about ourpodcast is you know everybody
that comes on.
There are no questions If youfollow us or you listen to us or
you share it with us.
You know that all of our guestscome on not knowing what is
going to show up or what we dopromise is we'll talk leadership
.
How we get there, we're notsure, but we have fun.
(03:35):
Our guests come on knowing that, but they share a lot of great
information.
It's really unpacked.
We have a conversation aroundit.
So, adam, you have a supplychain background.
You come out of corporateAmerica.
You don't have the HRbackground, but you've been in
the kitchen which is what Iwould love to call it of how to
make sure that you developleaders.
So, going from from being theperson technically sharp to
(03:56):
running a 4000 person team, whatwas the major shift you had to
make to go from technical expertto expert of people or great
leader?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, I'm actually first going to talk about the
emotional change that had tohappen.
And so some context.
I spent about 10 years in onemore corporate-y side of the
business and then, right at my10-year mark, the CEO gave me a
call and asked me if I'd beinterested in going and leading
a new piece of work that we weredoing.
(04:27):
Long story short, we wereforming a relationship with
Apple.
They needed someone to own thatrelationship, come from the
cell phone industry, and I saidyes, and so I moved from the
corporate side of the world tothe supply chain operations side
of the world.
Potentially didn't understandeverything I was signing up for,
but it was a fantastic jump,really set my career off in a
(04:51):
complimentary but new directionand it was so exciting.
I was traveling the world andthat time I went to Manila 18
times over the last seven yearsand I was traveling to Cupertino
and all kinds of places and itwas really exciting.
I was having a lot of fun andthen, like a brick wall, running
(05:11):
in, running into it at fullspeed, I was on an American
Airlines flight headed to SanFrancisco on a Monday morning
and the Friday night before Ihad just gotten home from 30
hours of travel to thePhilippines and I was sick, had
like that airplane crud you get.
My wife wasn't super happy withme, my kids weren't excited
(05:33):
that I was going out of townagain and I just all of a sudden
it went from being the mostexciting thing in my career to
before the Fasten Seatbelt signcame on.
I was like someone's got tochange, I can't keep doing this.
And in that moment it stoppedbeing fun and that led me to
(05:54):
question how could I keep doingand adding all the value I was
adding, but also not maintainingthat same grueling pace?
Not maintaining that samegrueling pace.
And the realization was I hadassembled a team in some ways,
(06:16):
but I had kept myself in aposition of significant
influence and interaction and Irealized in that moment that
this was no longer about could Ihandle the pace myself?
This was no longer about could Ihandle the pace myself, and I
had to transition into a placewhere I was depending on the
team to be resilient and highperforming, not just on myself
to be resilient and highperforming.
And I think that emotionalchange from where a leader I'll
(06:42):
say a manager from where amanager wants to be the point
person and own as much as theycan, to making the emotional
shift to I really want to leadpeople and I want this
organization to deliver morevalue than I can on my own and
really to deliver more valuethan I can because I'm going to
(07:05):
be gone eventually, like I'm notgoing to stay here forever in
this team, and so that shift, Iwould say, was the biggest thing
that I had to make to own andadmit to myself that something
had to change and I needed tobecome a leader instead of a
manager.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, but I love that you brought your personal life
into it.
The things that you worked hardfor.
You were feeling like you wereno longer serving them as well
as you were serving othersoutside of your household, the
things that you're, as a man,responsible for.
How did that sink in for you,though, at that moment, when you
, before the seatbelt, fastened,that you realized I'm no longer
living up to what I agreed toin this marriage or with these
children think for me, I'venever been one to wallow in pity
(07:48):
.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I prefer action where possible.
And so for me, once I made thatemotional shift and that
acknowledgement that the oldwhat got you here won't get you
there, kind of mindset ofacknowledging I have created a
ton of value for this businessand for myself personally by
being the person with theanswers, by being the person who
they call when they need tosend an operator in to fix stuff
(08:11):
like that has been wonderful.
But acknowledging and learningthat I can get just as much
value and I can createsignificantly more value by
leading a team of people who cananswer the bat phone, I think
there's just a real innate thingthat leaders at all level have
(08:31):
to take on, and that is whenthey can realize that they are
limited in how much value theycan create on their own.
No matter how good you are, nomatter how much of a technical
expert you are.
On their own, no matter howgood you are, no matter how much
of a technical expert you are,if you don't embrace leadership
at some point you will be cappedout on how much impact,
(08:52):
influence and change you cancause for your family, for your
business and for the world.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, how much does ego?
I mean?
You think of leaders and youthink of something you know.
You're doing the work that I doas well, and you're
encountering these leaders.
How much does ego and pride getin the way?
Being a person, it feels good,to be the person that people
come to.
Let's be real about it.
It feels good, but it's noteffective long term.
How much does ego and pride getin the way?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I would actually say it's even more basic than ego
and pride.
At the high level, I think itshows up as ego and pride, but
the reason it happens frequentlyis because for the early parts
of our careers we benefit fromknowing, and what I mean by that
is I'm the expert, I'm the guywith the answer, I can get the
(09:42):
data, I can do the analysis, Ican flip the switch, I'm the guy
that knows the answer andalmost all of our accolades
usually for the first 10 or 15years of our career, even after
we were like hobbyist leaders,we have two or three people
working for us, but most of ourvalue is still like our
individual effort.
We are given pats on the backand accolades and raises and
(10:05):
bonuses because we knew theanswer, and then, really quickly
, that changes once you get alarger team or a broader scope
or both, where knowing is nolonger the sustainable way to
add value.
And so when I talk to leaderswho are dealing with that, one
(10:32):
of the things that I try to dois make certain that they feel
permission to stop knowing theanswer.
You got a lot of value in yourcareer and validation because
you knew and people came to youto know.
If you wanna keep doing that,you should take a came to you to
know.
If you want to keep doing that,you should take a step back and
do that.
But if you want to createexponentially more value than
(10:53):
you create now, you actuallyneed to stop trying to know the
answer and you need to helpother people learn the answer
and then even more powerfullyempower other people to carry
the answer forward and then evenmore powerfully empower other
people to carry the answerforward without you, and that's
how you end up creating change.
We all have egos that we needto feed, but if we can learn and
(11:15):
realize that I can feed my needfor validation by accomplishing
through others, you canactually gain so much more
fulfillment personally by seeingthose you lead succeed and you
get to see the team do more thanyou can do on your own.
But you have to be willing togive up some of that at the
(11:35):
beginning.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, and what you're speaking to for those that are
listening and watching.
I mean, adam is really landingon what leadership really is and
it's not about being thetechnical expert, but you say
something that's really helpfulfor people.
You do get rewarded andpromoted and acknowledged before
what you know, but then it getspast there.
What do you tell the leader?
(11:57):
The one or two steps they cantake Adam, that's in that space
right now and they got to makethat they haven't gotten on that
airline and they haven't.
You know they're walking to thegate and they're feeling the
way you felt back in that day.
What do you tell them?
Like what's one or two stuffthat you would share, that they
could do?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So I would say, in my quest to create more great
leaders, one of the things Ilike to emphasize for people is
that leadership isn't about big,flashy events Like leadership
is not being on the stage of thekickoff.
Leadership is not the one-offonce a year time when you bring
your leaders together for anoffsite.
That is often showmanship.
(12:39):
It can be an important part oflike the final catalyst or the
final whipped cream on top ofthe ice cream sundae.
But really leadership is muchmore accessible than that and
the hard part about leadershipis not the behaviors themselves
that you need to embrace,because they're pretty basic and
I've got five of them we cantalk about if you want.
(13:01):
But it's actually embracing thatyou need to do them every day
and you need to do themconsistently, and 70% of the
time they're going to be easy,but 30% of the time they're
going to be hard, because that'swhen you're stressed and
something's going wrong andthere's a journal coursing
through your veins and that'swhen you are tempted to not do
these basic behaviors and becomethat problematic leader.
(13:24):
But the more we can embracesimple, consistent issues or
ideals as leaders, the more wecan show up in ways that people
will embrace.
And then those big events,those kickoffs, those offsites,
those will become significantlypowerful as opposed to one-offs
(13:45):
that people kind of say like allright, now it's back to every
day.
It's not just, you know, happy,fun time, you know give each
other high fives at the kickoff,sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, we will impact the five.
So, for people that arelistening, there's a book out,
adam, and it's called who, notwhat, and I love it because it
frames up what you're speakingto is who can do it, not what
you can do.
Who is it that you should belooking for?
Who's on your team?
Who do you make space for to bebrilliant and intelligent,
intentionally to allow them toshowcase and shine on your
(14:16):
behalf to get it done?
So who, not what, and how yougrow up in leadership, there's
going to be a lot of what youcan't do, but there's's gonna be
a lot of who's can help you getit done.
And so, if you're listening andyou're paying attention it's
not my book, but it is a bookout there.
You can find them on Amazon.
It talks about who, not what.
So what Adam is leaning intoand he trains around is who, not
what, as a leader.
I love the word that you usesustainable.
(14:36):
No matter how great you become,you become limited when it
comes to sustainability of youdoing it every day, all day.
You're going to get older,you're going to slow down,
things are going to changefaster.
You're going to want to retire.
You're going to get a family.
All these things are going tocalculate for you and you're not
going to be as accessible or asavailable as you love to be.
You're going to need otherpeople to do it.
It's just the reality of it.
(14:56):
One of the things that I sharewith people is you can't be
coach and player.
You got to decide which oneyou're going to be.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And that's where I think a lot of entrepreneurs and
founders get tripped up is, atsome point in all of our
businesses we are the player,the coach, the stats guy, the
water boy.
We do the laundry, we fold thetowels, everything right.
And so that's part of it andthat's good.
That's part of growingsomething for yourself, right.
But really the unlock tosustaining that value creation
(15:26):
is once you have been successfulin that, how do you start
identifying the things you canpeel off and start sharing that
responsibility?
And then how do you startsharing that leadership and
create something that lives pastyou?
Like, I'm working with a guyright now.
He owns an engineering firm andhe is kind of looking at
retirement in the next fiveyears and he really wants his
(15:48):
son to take over the engineeringfirm.
But his son's a younger guy andhas never led anyone, and so
they've asked me to come helpboth of them develop both sides
of that, because one, the ownerof the engineering firm, he's
got to give up some stuff, he'sgot to stop digging in and being
involved in everything, andthen his son has to step up and
(16:14):
lead on his own.
He can't just lead because he'sthe dad's son and it's his
place right.
So both of them needdevelopment to be able to make
this business that's been afamily business for the last 25
years and is on a growthtrajectory where they might
double or triple their businessin the next two or three years
to really be something that's alegacy for the father and
(16:37):
potentially provides for his sonand grandchildren for years to
come and potentially providesfor his son and grandchildren
for years to come.
But this transition point allrelies on both of them
developing new muscles andgrowing, and that's part of what
I'm trying to help them do.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes, you talked about the 30% time when it doesn't go
well, and that's when you'reprobably going to be evaluated
and assessed the most when it'sunder pressure is what I call it
.
Yep, you get evaluated morewhen you're under pressure and
there's a short timeline or ashort fuse and things are
chaotic, and leaders getevaluated in the worst of times.
When things are going well, youmanage it and you'll be okay,
(17:13):
but when your back is againstthe wall and it's under pressure
that 30% what are some thingsthat help us do well at those
moments when everybody'swatching and the lights are
bright?
Some things that help us dowell at those moments when
everybody's watching and thelights are bright.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Well, the first thing is to know that you can never
know when those times are coming.
I mean, sometimes you can havesome idea that they're coming,
but at least half of the timethey're just going to hit you
out of nowhere, right?
And so the planning for them isin the day-to-day building of
relationships and trust, whichwe'll touch on some of that in
the five.
But I think embedding a dailyrelationship with your peers and
(17:50):
with your people is key tobeing ready to survive those
super difficult times.
Because I was reading a bookyesterday.
It was talking about FEMA andhow they were prepping.
About a year before HurricaneKatrina.
They did an exercise calledHurricane Pam, where they
actually brought everyone in anddid an exercise that modeled
(18:12):
Katrina almost to the T.
It's super interesting.
We can get that later.
But one of the things they saidin that is it's really
important that in the midst ofan emergency, you're not trading
contact information.
Yes, this is not the time tohand out business cards, and in
our businesses often we don'tget to know our peers well
(18:35):
enough, especially like maybe anassistant organization.
Hey, I grew up in supply chain,so I know my supply chain VPs
pretty well but don't know myproduct or my technology or my
security VPs, because whenyou're leading a large
organization and stuff hits thefan, you're gonna need those
peers outside of your directorganization.
And so building therelationships down and sideways,
(18:59):
I think, is more important thanbuilding the relationships up.
And often, because of focus onpromotion, we develop
relationships up because that'swhat we're focused on, as
opposed to developingrelationships laterally.
And really, in an emergency, Ineed a lot of capital that I can
(19:21):
spend with my peers, so they'lltrust me, so they'll help me
achieve what I need to achieve,so they'll have enough trust
embedded that they know when toask questions and when to just
say, like well, ron said, weneed to do it.
It's clearly a big deal.
We're just going to go do itand take care of it, right.
But if you don't have anypolitical capital built up and
(19:42):
relationship trust, you're kindof exchanging business cards in
the midst of your emergency.
You know whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, adam said you know, if you know me and you
follow me, you know that Adam issitting on a lot of things that
I talk about quite often.
I mean.
So he's like triggering me tolike, okay, go here, go there.
But I know y'all are waitingfor those five and I'm
intentionally holding that backso you can hang out with us
before we get to those five.
You talk about this socialcapital and I talk about it
quite often and I like tocompare it to a credit score.
(20:10):
Yeah, yeah, because if yourcredit score is a 900, you can
kind of do what you want,finance what you want, but if
it's a 400, people walk you outto the exit door and so what?
You're speaking to Adam.
It helps me understand betterthe value of that social capital
, because when stuff hits thefan, you don't have time to
build that social capital.
You either have it or you don't.
How did you build socialcapital?
(20:32):
And then we'll go into the five.
So you think about you came upfrom on the front lines, working
your way through the system,becoming into a position of
corporate ladder.
How did you intentionally buildsocial capital on the way up
and not just to the boss?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Well, the first way I did it is I really sucked at it
and didn't do a good job.
So in my career I've had threedifferent 360 evaluations that
were done for me.
I'm a huge fan of them becauseof how impactful they were to me
, so much so that one of them Ikeep with me.
It's in a folder over here.
(21:09):
I won't go reach for it now,but I had it nine years ago and
I still read it once a quarter.
And in it there were statementslike Adam is often the best
person for the job and that'sthe only reason we worked with
him.
There were statements like theteam would prefer to work with
(21:29):
someone else, but because Adamis the most intelligent on this
topic, they will work with himbegrudgingly.
And there were there werecomments throughout this 360
that talked about what an expertI was at the work that I did,
but that on the relationshipcapital side, I was in a real
(21:53):
pickle.
Thankfully, I added enoughvalue technically that people
wanted me around.
Yes, but what I tell peoplepeople in light of my own kind
of experience was, if you're inthat position, you have created
a place where you were justhanging out on a ledge waiting
for someone for that rock faceto crumble when there's a layoff
(22:17):
coming or when something'sgoing wrong in the business or
whatever, or you have a badquarter right.
If all of your goodness for thebusiness is built on your
expertise but people hateworking with you, that will come
and bite you in the butt.
And so one of those 360s,especially, was a big part of
that shift and I'm immenselygrateful for it.
(22:38):
That's why it's one of theservices I offer now is because
it was a monumental shift for meIn that the biggest
relationship capital thing thatwas impactful for me was I am a
nice guy and lots of peoplereference that.
Hey, he's a super nice guy.
We love spending time with himpersonally.
Professionally, we don't wantto be around him, and I believed
(22:59):
that because my intentions weregood and wholesome and my work
was great.
That's what mattered.
In a way it does, but only in away.
It does right.
Once people have built up aperception of me, it's really
hard to change that, and so whatI tell people is often the
(23:20):
largest thing you need to workon social capital wise first is
you need to understand howpeople perceive you and then you
need to put that up against theway you either perceive
yourself or you want to beperceived and kind of overlay
those and get the gaps and theproblems and all that sort of
stuff and say like, oh man, I'mnot showing up how I want to
(23:40):
show up and the problems and allthat sort of stuff, and say
like, oh man, I'm not showing uphow I want to show up.
And then we go build anindividual development plan to
address each of those placeswhere the person you're showing
up as is not the person that youwant to be at the best time and
the best day and that 30% issueis often.
We have to go invest in what doyou want to be all the time and
(24:04):
define that in the light of daywhen the sun is shining and
there's rainbows and birds aresinging, and get really crisp on
who you want to be when it's adark, thundercloud day and
there's a tornado headed for you.
Because if you don't define itreally crisply before and
identify those gaps you need towork on, you're right, we get
(24:27):
judged most harshly in thosetimes of high pressure and when
adrenaline is coursing throughyour veins.
If you haven't defined who youwant to be, you will be the
worst version of yourself, andthat worst version may be highly
effective for a short period oftime.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, it's not sustainable.
I'll go back to the word ofsustainability.
You know, over time you're onseveral things that's worth
unpacking and you talk about howdo you get things done.
And once you become a leader,you get things done through
other people, the social capital.
What's the best method when youget a 360?
Not to take it personal.
(25:08):
I don't want to argue with you.
This is your podcast, ron.
It may not feel good, but itmay be very accurate and you may
need to do something about it.
But some leaders, when theyhear it, they get defensive or
they say they just don't like meor it's personal, and all these
other things that you use tovalidate how you're going to
embrace it.
How do you help get past that?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
well, you know this is your podcast, so I don't want
to necessarily argue with you,but I will take a slightly
contrarian point of view, ifthat's all right, please do.
I think you should take itpersonally really okay tell me
more, and I don't mean take itpersonally like, well, now I'm
mad at these people and I'mgoing to go do things.
That's not what I mean by takeit personally, but if you have a
(25:46):
really good 360, it should cutyou to the core.
Yes, and so I have a vividmemory.
I got that the one I'm talkingabout about one o'clock it's
like a Thursday.
I had 17 pages of typedcomments that my reviewers had
given me.
I read it and I cried in mycube and then I left the office
(26:12):
and went and saw a movie beforeI went home, so that there would
be some buffer between thatemotional state and when I got
home.
By the way, I posted about thaton LinkedIn a couple of weeks
ago and my wife said is thattrue?
I was like, yes, it's true, andthere should be some emotional
roller coaster.
If people care enough about youto share the things that you
need to work on first, you needto internalize that, because
(26:35):
people only share if they careat some level, and so when you
take it personally, you'reoffended.
The part you need to takepersonally is that you clearly
have issues to work on, notSally Sue doesn't like me
because she said bad thingsabout me.
The second thing to me abouttaking it personally is I was
not showing up as the personthat I said I wanted to be, and
(26:59):
if you're not showing up as theperson that you say you want to
believe that fits your integrityand your core values, it should
cut you to the quick and so-.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I love that you're saying that and I'm glad that
you took the different approach,because you're spot on.
I mean, it's even helping memodify the language of how I say
it.
I say, you know, don't getangry about it, but personally
you should go do something.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Yes, transformation comes from pain.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, so we're on the same page there.
So I'm happy that you know thepodcast is for all of us.
You're spot on on that.
Out of that, there should besomething that does hurt enough
for you to do something about it.
Thank you for bringing that up.
So you went to the movies,which was a really good idea to
put some buffer in between it.
Your wife finally here like wow, that was a real story.
Yes, yeah, it happens, becausemost people look at us and we
(27:46):
make it look easy.
I know it wasn't easy for youto embrace it, but what is there
anything that stood out thathelped you embrace it?
Besides, you know, let mesettle down, I cry.
I went to the movie.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
How did you get started to start making
corrections?
Corrections?
Yeah, I was blessed with anofficial and an unofficial coach
.
I worked with a third partycompany that provided a coach.
That was super helpful to mebecause they helped provide a
lens to view all the commentsthrough and help build a plan
right.
They're a third party, likethey don't have a dog in the
hunt, except they want me to besuccessful enough in my growth
that the company will use themagain.
(28:23):
Right, and so that's the beautyof what I do.
What you do is people bring usin because they want a third
party.
That's objective.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, except the fact that,
truthfully, I want to createenough value for you that you
recommend me and say, man, I'dlove to work with Ron again.
And so that coach was helpful,very helpful in building a plan.
But then also it was helpfulthat I had an unofficial coach,
(28:46):
who?
He was about two years ahead ofme and we dealt with many
similar issues.
He was a friend and when theywere kind of helping me identify
, pass forward, he wasidentified from the leadership
team as someone who had dealtvery successfully with the same
issues that I faced and thecombination of both that he had
(29:09):
experience with my issues butalso that he cared about me
meant that he could say andreinforce the hard things that
were said in a way that I knewthey came from a genuine place.
And he had the context that thethird party coach didn't have
to say, hey, you could havehandled that interaction better.
(29:30):
Or hey, you kind of played intowhat people are saying about
you there.
Or sometimes that's just Sallyand like she's a jerk, like
don't let that, you didn't screwup there, she did Right.
And having both of those really,really helped to sort through
the feedback and put an actionplan in place that was
reasonable and actionable.
(29:51):
And then that would help holdme accountable to it, because
the coach, the third party coach, they can do a lot but they're
always dependent on you know howmuch the coachee, the
participant, shares.
So having someone else who likesees the work day to day, has
context on the work to me waswas really a big part of that.
(30:13):
That helped me.
So I really encourage people tohave both a third party and a
mentor that cares about them andtheir success a third party and
a mentor that cares about themand their success and hopefully
has dealt with the same issuesand open your soul to them.
Don't hide it.
And that's the fastest way toget change is to be open to the
pain and the difficulty thatwill come from the change and
(30:35):
tell others that you're tryingto change.
And the more you tell othersyou're trying to change, the
more they'll help you change.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Absolutely, and I like that.
Adam, thank you for sharing thestory.
But you're spot on.
You're going to be transparent.
If you're going to grow, yourdoctor can't help you and give
you the right prescription ifyou're hiding what's going on.
No-transcript about the mentor.
(31:09):
You're transparent about.
Hey, I had to do some work andI wanted to do the work.
You know, one of the things Iwould say for us is, once you
get that 360, do you want to getbetter?
You have to own like are youbeing seen?
I love that.
You said I'm not even showingup the way that I want to be
seen, so you own thatimmediately, like this data is
not even letting me be seen theway that I want to be seen.
I got work to do, no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, and so just to remind folks, it's been a few
minutes since we talked aboutthis.
These are what I would say arefive basic behaviors.
These are not rocket science.
The magic in them is in doingthem every day, even when it's
really hard, even when your guttells you you know to do
something different.
And so the first number one isjust show up authentically.
(32:09):
And when I say show upauthentically, I mean one share
yourself transparently, beagenda less with your teams and
your peers and acknowledge whenthings are going to be hard.
One of the things that reallyfrustrates teams in my
experience is when the leadercomes down from the mountain,
(32:32):
comes down from the VP or theexecutive staff meeting and has
marching orders that they haveto hand out, and they act like
it's going to be easy.
They act like it's all a goodidea.
They act like it's totallyclear, with no ambiguity.
Any of us that have experiencein the working world know that's
not how it comes.
(32:52):
That's not what happens whenyou come down from the mountain,
the meeting with the CEO orwhatever, and your VP starts
handing out assignments.
But you can acknowledge thatwith your team in a way that
doesn't give them permission tonot do the work well, but
instead acknowledges hey guys, Iknow that this isn't perfectly
clear or I know this isn't goingto be completely easy.
(33:14):
How can we get what Johnny isasking for in a way that is
helpful but it's the leastburden on the team?
Because I know this is going tobe difficult right In that
moment.
We can both acknowledge thedifficulty, reinforce that we
have to meet the need, but thatas leaders we also get the
choice sometimes to do thingsreally, really, really hard or
(33:37):
maybe just a little bit lesshard by figuring out ways to do
things better or easier, fasterand kind of modeling.
All three of those at the sametime can show an authenticity to
our team that doesn't make themfeel like we're just going to
carry the company torch nomatter what, and so they can't
trust us when we tell themthings.
(33:58):
But we can show up in a waythat we can say like I'm an
officer of the company, I dohave to support the company as
best as I can, but that doesn'tmean I have to be fully
full-throated, support blindallegiance, you know, marching
off the cliff, and thatauthenticity will help people.
It's one of the components oftrust that we can talk about.
(34:20):
That'll roll through these alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Love it.
So, when you think about thethings that you're laying out
being authentic, showing up,being transparent, not going
full throttle, and taking careof the team so it doesn't be
coming from the CEO's officemaking it look easy Can you go
down the list again of the fivethings that ensure that people
capture all five of them?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Oh again, of the five things, ensure that people
capture all five of them.
Oh yeah, the five.
I'll just go one through fiveand then we can talk about the
second one.
Show up authentically, askbetter questions, share your
logical thought and decisionprocesses.
Number four is create a cultureof feedback.
And number five is think likeimprov, which is yes, if or yes
(35:05):
and instead of no.
That one especially has toimpact because it's kind of a
funny one, but I think likeimprov.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, that'll be a good one, because that'll tie
into how I operate on a dailybasis too.
So I mean, you'll bereinforcing what I think as well
.
So we hit the first show up, Ithink.
Do you want to just share anyinformation about before?
Is there something you want toshare about each one of those?
Yeah, I'll share a little bit.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, so asking better questions, We'll do this
one and then the fifth one, butto me, asking better questions
gets to what we were talkingabout earlier, about sustainable
leadership knowing versushelping, or knowing versus
creating.
Often we are tempted to askquantitative questions as
leaders how much, how many, when, how long things that can often
(35:53):
be answered with a word or asingle statistic, and then
someone answers that and we goon our merry way.
And that was an answer I findqualitative.
I find quantitative questionsto lack depth.
They are often very shallow andbecause of that, they give us,
as leaders, shallow information.
And so if you want to createmore sustainable knowledge
(36:16):
sharing and more sustainabilityas a leader, ask qualitative
questions.
So those are questions like howmuch can you explain why?
Things that can't be answeredin just a word or a sentence?
So the way that looks is canyou explain how X fits into the
(36:38):
process on the floor?
And if someone says I don'tunderstand what you mean, well,
I don't quite understand whatcomes before that step in the
process and what comes afterthat step in the process, and so
they'll give you a lot moreinformation than if you just say
hey, where is this in theprocess?
Oh, it's the seventh step, it'sover interceding.
Oh, okay, thanks, you don'tknow much more.
(37:01):
So, but if you can ask thatqualitative question, and one
that I really love is hey, whatare you concerned about?
What makes you think thatthere's a risk that we need to
mitigate in this situation?
And just listen and people willtell you everything, and often
it's the risks that we reallyneed to know about anyway.
But we ask those questions insuch a way that frequently
(37:26):
people aren't willing to sharethem, Whereas if we first say,
hey, I believe there's somerisks here, there's risks to
everything, Ron, what do youthink the risks are?
And then you'll share.
And then, as a leader, you cansay, well, if you were going to
try to mitigate those, how wouldyou mitigate those?
And like are those expensivemitigations or not expensive?
(37:47):
And all of a sudden we have areally in-depth conversation
about things in our businessthat we could fix Right, and
it's much less like playingwhere's Waldo, where I try to
ask a whole bunch of questionsall around and it really pulls
information out of people.
So ask qualitative questionsideally not quantitative
questions and model genuinecuriosity.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, it's almost.
You know you think about nowfor leaders.
You know AI is showing up onthe horizon for everyone, and
the one thing that you got to dofor AI to work effectively for
you whether you like it or notlike it, whether you support or
not support it for the audiencethe reality is you got to be
really, really good at askingquestions If you're going to get
something that's very usefulfor you, that's going to help
you do your job better.
So, Adam, you're spot on, andso, if you're going to have a
(38:33):
healthy dialogue with someone,what I've learned over time,
Adam, the better questions I ask, the more information I get and
allows other people to be smart, the more I make statements is
all about how smart, I am Amen.
So I have to become better as aleader of creating questions
from a place of curiosity andnot let me stump the chump.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yes, yeah, Sometimes the way I talk about that is,
sadly, lots of the issues in theway we evaluate people are
based on performance.
And when I say performance Idon't mean like do you do a good
job, I mean performance likeI'm in a meeting and the VP
asked me a hard question and Ianswer it in a way that
(39:18):
satisfies that VP.
Or I answer it in a way thatsatisfies that VP, or I answer
it in such a way that he's like,well, you're a freaking idiot
and that whole.
I love the term stump the chumpsort of game.
We do so much of our judgmentand performance calibration off
of those performance settingsthat this is probably a topic
(39:38):
for another time.
But what we really hurt thediversity of the people who
we're hearing information from,whether it's introvert,
extrovert, cultural differences,background differences are
people comfortable stepping upin a meeting like that or not
that we really, as leaders, ifwe're going to really embrace
bringing diverse thought intoour work, we have to really
(40:01):
avoid the stump, stump the chumpsort of game.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I love it.
I love it and thank you forbringing it up, because
everywhere we are now, peoplewant to figure out how do you
leverage it.
I'm not talking diversity whenit just comes to race and gender
.
I love that you're bringing itup and having a conversation,
because people kind of shy awayfrom it and don't want to use
the term anymore.
And it's not just about raceand it's not just about gender.
I mean, there's so much to youand I that has absolutely.
I know that when you show up,you're Caucasian and you know
(40:26):
that I'm African-American.
Let's get past that.
I hear you, but like, get intothe room and allow people to
show up as their authenticselves of the stuff that you
don't see externally, becausethere's so much more to all of
us.
I'm glad you put that on thetable.
Do you want to share anythingon your fifth one?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah.
So the fifth one think likeimprov.
So if you've ever been to animprov training or you like
improv comedy, they have amantra that is yes and.
So whenever you're doing improvyou never say no.
Improv is a back and forth sortof thing.
Somebody has an idea based onwhatever the prompt is, they get
(41:01):
out, they do their funny bitand then a laugh and then as
soon as like the last starts tocrescendo, slash, plateau, I
come out and I now kind of riffoff of what Ron just said, and
so we kind of continually buildthis together and the guiding
principle is yes and not no,because you can't keep the
(41:24):
laughs going if Ron's got himrolling and then I pop out there
I'm like no, ron, that's notright.
And then I try to like switch.
It gives everyone whiplash, thelaughter stops, people feel
weird.
So this concept of yes and andI would highlight a slight
addition to that the more thatwe can say yes and or yes if as
(41:46):
leaders, the more we'll get frompeople.
So when someone brings you anidea, as much as possible say
yes and yeah, you can do thatand do it like this.
An example of that is afterCOVID every one of us has been
to the return to office sort ofissues and different things.
We're trying to make surepeople felt welcome and that
they had reasons to be in theoffice.
(42:06):
And so one of the younger guyson my team came and said like
I'd love to bring Starbucks infor my team on the two days a
week that we're all here Like weknow when they are.
Is it cool if I do that?
I'm like, yeah, of course.
Like, use the Amex for it, it'snot a big deal.
And I said, but also like,check with your peers teams.
(42:27):
He had some peers who were out,who were remote completely, but
their team sat there.
I was like, well, ask the otherfolks who you know are going to
be there on that day too, andask the support folks.
You guys are in this group butyou work with planning and
procurement.
Ask the planning andprocurement partners that you
work with also.
And it meant that the spend was$20 or sorry, $40 instead of
(42:49):
$20.
And they did it I don't know 10times or something right, but
it created a whole bunch of buzz.
People were excited about it.
It brought those other groupsinto the area and they had a
chat in the morning, everybody'shappy to see each other, and
it's just maybe a silly example,but often with leaders, we have
people come to us and it'sreally easy to say no.
(43:10):
No is easy, yes is hard.
Often yes, and is sometimes alittle bit harder.
But how can we validate goodideas and then help our people
think more expansively?
Hey, you're just thinking aboutthe three people that work for
you.
Can you think about the threepeople that work for your peer?
So now you're thinking aboutsix people.
Can you think about the threepeople that support your team?
(43:32):
Now you're thinking about, youknow, nine people total.
That's how you create change inorganizations, is you get people
to think just a little bitwider, just widen their frame
just a smidge.
And sometimes you can't say yes.
And and that's where, ideally,you can say yes if Someone
brings an idea for a productchange or whatever, it's always
(43:52):
going to cost more money.
They're never cheaper, and soyour temptation as leaders is to
say no, right, but maybe youneed to say yes if, hey, we can
do that.
Yes, if you can help us go workwith a finance team to get some
relief in our annual plan forthat, hey, we can do that.
If we can upgrade the packaging.
(44:13):
It's going to be more expensive, but if we can also
simultaneously reduce the formfactor, we can actually
negotiate lower shipping rates.
So maybe we can do both ofthose together and offset your
higher costs with the savings.
And that's a yes if.
So you're kind of protectingmaybe your P&L or some other
issue, but you're highlightingthat we could do this if we get
(44:35):
a little bit creative, andyou're modeling for folks that
the goal of a leader is not tosay no and be protectionist.
The goal of a leader is to sayyes, if and yes and and be
expansive and creative,protecting the bottom line but
also growing the total piewherever we can.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Wow, I love it.
I mean, even in real time, thisis unpacked, we go through and
we have real conversations aboutwhatever comes up next.
Even when we got to the pointof you know this is unpacked, we
go through and we have realconversations about whatever
comes up next.
Even when we got to the pointof you know you're 360, and I
say, hey, you know no, don'ttake it personally.
You say, well, ron, I actuallythink, yeah, you should take
some of it personally.
You know so it's a yes.
And or, if you know so, I thinkthat's where you actually model
it in real time for us.
So, if you watch us, none ofit's scripted, it's real time
(45:25):
and we even practice what.
What you just said, adam, is yes, and ron, they should take
something personal because itrequires them to go do some work
, and so I tell you how do youembrace that?
And we did it real time.
So you're watching and you'relistening.
We're not just talking this,this great idea, we're talking
about these great practices thatyou put into place.
We do it in real time.
So, ideally, multiple things.
I mean you come out, you'rerunning an organization.
What are the reasons I shouldbe calling you as a business
owner, so I want to do businesspromotion with you now.
What are some things thatpeople should call you for?
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Sure, my dream what the groups I love to work with
is ideally a small team, that wework with the team, and so
that's going to be hey, we'vegot three, four, maybe as many
as eight people who we can coachtogether, and so I have a 360
tool I can bring where we dothat for the whole team and then
(46:08):
we build a development planthat can be six months or nine
months where we'll go throughcoaching and individual goals
for that whole team, and so thatideally isn't oh man,
everything is broken and fallingdown.
It's hey, this team's doinggood, but we really want to
supercharge and turbocharge anddo really a lot better and build
(46:28):
maybe a leadership team that'sgoing to take over this
organization long-term.
So that could be hey, you'vegot to.
I'll use a supply chain, sincethat's my closest experience.
Hey, we've got a high performerin procurement, planning,
operations, engineering, youknow, and HR.
We think that they're theleaders for five years from now.
We want to invest in them now.
(46:49):
Great, bring me in.
I'll help do 360s with them andhelp identify development plans
for each of them and how theycan build better teams that are
based on trust, that havesystems in place and can grow.
That's one.
The second is I also do publicspeaking, corporate speaking, so
(47:10):
keynotes, workshops, offsitesort of things, leadership team
meetings I've got one in acouple of weeks.
That is, I'm meeting with eightleaders of a bank in the morning
for a three-hour workshop andthen I've got all of the people
leaders in the bank thatafternoon and we are doing a
broader seven practical ways ofleadership Some of those we've
(47:33):
talked about today and help thembuild a team environment where
we do that.
So public speaking, corporatespeaking, sort of things.
And then the last I'll mention,I offer you know, not everybody
can bring someone in and gothrough the time or the expense
to do like a big thing with theentire team, so I also offer a
group-based coaching programthat goes three times a year.
(47:55):
My next one will start inFebruary, but I do, like I said,
three times a year 20 to 30participants in those and we
cover 12 weeks of content.
It's a broad base of leadership, includes topics we've talked
about today plus some others,but I'm trying to make it
accessible for people that maybedon't have the time or the
money, frankly, to have someonework with eight people in their
(48:18):
team for nine months.
Well, we've got other ways wecan serve that population too.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Thank you for sharing , I mean, which is important.
How do people reach you?
What's the best way?
I mean, if people want to reachout to you for podcasts, public
speaking, to come into workwith the teams, what's the most
effective way to reach out toyou and your team?
Speaker 3 (48:32):
So if you're in the in the U S, it may work for
Canada.
Also, if you'll use the shortcode 33777 and text the word
operator, so that's texting theword operator to 33777.
That'll get you into mynewsletter.
Also, there's some otherinformation there you'll get for
joining that.
(48:52):
That's how I keep in contactwith people on the regular.
And then also LinkedIn.
I post leadership thought onLinkedIn every day.
I've been posting every day forabout nine months now and plan
to keep that going.
So both of those would be thebest place to get to me.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Awesome, awesome.
And I know it's LinkedIn, it'slive.
I've been there so you knoweverybody that comes on.
I go check out what they'redoing on LinkedIn so I can know
who they are and what they'redoing and so you know as people
that's on the show.
So for the show, so foreveryone that's watching is.
Is there any last minuteinformation you'd love to share?
Speaker 3 (49:23):
one nugget you haven't dropped that kind of
popped up in your head that youwant to share with the leaders
that are listening if you wantto be a leader, you have to
embrace that it's not about youand frequently those of us that
are leaders, we start out witharrogance and ego problems and
all kinds of things.
That was part of my 360.
And over time, the only way wecan become great leaders is
(49:48):
really embracing that change andtransformation and value comes
from the people that we workwith and that if we want them to
grow and develop and becomebetter than we are, we have to
care about them at a deep level.
And it will take time, effortand sweat and it will not be
(50:11):
easy.
But if you can embrace caringfor people, the people will take
care of your business.
Yes, and it will be a businesstransformation for you, because
so few leaders in the worldactually care about their people
that you'll stand out and Iwould just urge your audience to
(50:32):
care about the people andeverything else will sort itself
out.
And if you can show upauthentically and empathetically
every day, everything else willwork.
You just got to trust theprocess a little bit.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yes, yes, and those that follow me, that are fans
and been following me for awhile.
You know I didn't send out anynotes to talk about what he's
talking about.
He says so much stuff that's inalignment with what we believe
and how we live and our values.
But I always talk about do youreally care, or do you care
about the scoreboard?
Are you easy to work for andwork with as long as you're
winning?
And if the only time thatyou're easy to work with is when
(51:05):
the scoreboard says what youwanted to say or the spreadsheet
at the bottom gives you thenumber that you want, there's
somebody that at some point thatwon't work for them and so they
want to know that you care,even when the numbers don't
reflect what you want them,because you're not going to win
every season.
It's just not reality.
Nobody wins every season, and nomatter how good you are, you're
going to have to rebuild andyou don't get to win every game,
(51:27):
but at the end of the day, youget to make a difference.
For those that are watching,those are the following Adam, I
think you did a phenomenal jobof just being transparent, being
honest and talking about thingsthat you've actually done in
the kitchen on your journey.
Not some book that you read orsomething that you Googled and
you pulled up.
You've actually done in thekitchen on your journey, not
some book that you read orsomething that you Googled and
you pulled up.
You've actually walked throughthis yourself and you shared
about who you were and how youhad to change and manage your
(51:47):
own growth.
For those of you that arewatching, we release a podcast
every Monday, a different leadfrom around the world to help
you get better.
And as we close out 2024, whata great way to end it to talk
about how do you use a 360?
.
2024, what a great way to endit to talk about how do you use
a 360 and with five things thatwill help you that you can do
every single day, and you needto do them every single day,
even when it's hard, and Adamalready shared 70% of the time
(52:10):
it's going to be easy to do.
30% of the time you're going tostruggle, but still do it.
Make the first step.
If you need to get in touchwith us, adam already shared the
best way to reach out to himReach out to us.
You know Global Force Strategies.
You can find us on LinkedIn.
You can follow me on LinkedIn,which is the primary source of
reaching out to me, or mywebsite, which you will also
find if you go to LinkedIn.
We'd love to talk to you,either one of us.
(52:30):
One thing I've learned aboutsmall business is I compliment
and help complete other businessowners that do what I do.
So it's not a competition.
So either one of us and if Ican put you in touch with Adam,
I'll be happy to do that,looking forward to working with
you.
Happy New Year to everyonethat's following.
Hope you have a really, reallygreat time.
We will be into 2025 once yousee this, but thank you all for
following us and we hope thatyou continue to follow us for
(52:51):
the whole year.
Until then, adam and I willsign off.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(53:17):
leadership.
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Good morning.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting.
Our firm basically does workaround leadership.
We're a professional serviceleadership firm and we spend all
our time helping leaders bebetter connected to the people
that help them be great atgetting things done in their
organizations.
So we spend most of our time.
How do they stay betterconnected to those that make
them successful, and that'sthrough communication or
(00:51):
conflict or building ordevelopment.
You know so there are multipleways and I enjoy it as an
organization that we get to helpleaders take better care of
their people that they'reresponsible for and responsible
to.
But our podcast that we do isreally we bring in leaders from
around the world.
We release the episode everysingle Monday and we bring
leaders from all backgrounds,all walks of life, to share some
(01:11):
of the wisdom and the knowledgeand the nuggets that they've
had, that they've learned and sobest practices.
So hang on as we go throughthis podcast and we talk about
our businesses and people.
We bring on our business owners, just like we are.
So we're only successfulbecause people use our services.
We promote books, we talk aboutour services, our programs and
we share some secrets to what wedo internally.
We don't give you all theanswers and the ingredients,
(01:32):
because we love for you to useour service, but we do share
enough to make you curious thatyou may want to have another
conversation.
So I'm really excited to haveAdam Malone with me.
So, adam, I'm going to hand youthe microphone as we dive in
and let you introduce yourselfand anything you want us to know
about you.
That I've read, but theyhaven't heard yet.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Sure, thanks for the intro.
Appreciate that I am coming offabout a 20-year career in the
corporate world.
17 years of that all at onelocation or one operation moved
from analyst to VP in that time,from leading none to leading
4,000.
And so when people ask me whatmakes me different, there's a
(02:11):
lot of leadership consultantsyou can find out in the world.
Why should they talk to Adam?
My answer is generally youcan't find a lot of operational
leaders who've made the jumpinto consulting.
I don't have an HR background,necessarily.
I think leadership is superimportant, but I've also, you
know, been on the ground solvingthe problems that come from
(02:32):
boxes not shipping to differentparts of the world, to customers
not getting what they need to.
You know all the things youhave when you, you know, run a
$4 billion P&L, and so theleadership consultant that has
led a 4,000 person organization.
And my goal in all things is tohelp create more great leaders,
because my core belief is thatgreat leadership is what we need
(02:56):
in almost every facet of ourlife, whether personal,
professional, political,whatever.
A lot of our problems stem froma lack of great leaders, and so
I believe that it's up to us tosolve that problem and invest
in the world so that we can havemore great leadership in every
facet of our life.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, adam, I mean that's a whole lot you gave me
to unpack and so you will gothrough.
You know what I love about ourpodcast is you know everybody
that comes on.
There are no questions If youfollow us or you listen to us or
you share it with us.
You know that all of our guestscome on not knowing what is
going to show up or what we dopromise is we'll talk leadership
.
How we get there, we're notsure, but we have fun.
(03:35):
Our guests come on knowing that, but they share a lot of great
information.
It's really unpacked.
We have a conversation aroundit.
So, adam, you have a supplychain background.
You come out of corporateAmerica.
You don't have the HRbackground, but you've been in
the kitchen which is what Iwould love to call it of how to
make sure that you developleaders.
So, going from from being theperson technically sharp to
(03:56):
running a 4000 person team, whatwas the major shift you had to
make to go from technical expertto expert of people or great
leader?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, I'm actually first going to talk about the
emotional change that had tohappen.
And so some context.
I spent about 10 years in onemore corporate-y side of the
business and then, right at my10-year mark, the CEO gave me a
call and asked me if I'd beinterested in going and leading
a new piece of work that we weredoing.
(04:27):
Long story short, we wereforming a relationship with
Apple.
They needed someone to own thatrelationship, come from the
cell phone industry, and I saidyes, and so I moved from the
corporate side of the world tothe supply chain operations side
of the world.
Potentially didn't understandeverything I was signing up for,
but it was a fantastic jump,really set my career off in a
(04:51):
complimentary but new directionand it was so exciting.
I was traveling the world andthat time I went to Manila 18
times over the last seven yearsand I was traveling to Cupertino
and all kinds of places and itwas really exciting.
I was having a lot of fun andthen, like a brick wall, running
(05:11):
in, running into it at fullspeed, I was on an American
Airlines flight headed to SanFrancisco on a Monday morning
and the Friday night before Ihad just gotten home from 30
hours of travel to thePhilippines and I was sick, had
like that airplane crud you get.
My wife wasn't super happy withme, my kids weren't excited
(05:33):
that I was going out of townagain and I just all of a sudden
it went from being the mostexciting thing in my career to
before the Fasten Seatbelt signcame on.
I was like someone's got tochange, I can't keep doing this.
And in that moment it stoppedbeing fun and that led me to
(05:54):
question how could I keep doingand adding all the value I was
adding, but also not maintainingthat same grueling pace?
Not maintaining that samegrueling pace.
And the realization was I hadassembled a team in some ways,
(06:16):
but I had kept myself in aposition of significant
influence and interaction and Irealized in that moment that
this was no longer about could Ihandle the pace myself?
This was no longer about could Ihandle the pace myself, and I
had to transition into a placewhere I was depending on the
team to be resilient and highperforming, not just on myself
to be resilient and highperforming.
And I think that emotionalchange from where a leader I'll
(06:42):
say a manager from where amanager wants to be the point
person and own as much as theycan, to making the emotional
shift to I really want to leadpeople and I want this
organization to deliver morevalue than I can on my own and
really to deliver more valuethan I can because I'm going to
(07:05):
be gone eventually, like I'm notgoing to stay here forever in
this team, and so that shift, Iwould say, was the biggest thing
that I had to make to own andadmit to myself that something
had to change and I needed tobecome a leader instead of a
manager.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, but I love that you brought your personal life
into it.
The things that you worked hardfor.
You were feeling like you wereno longer serving them as well
as you were serving othersoutside of your household, the
things that you're, as a man,responsible for.
How did that sink in for you,though, at that moment, when you
, before the seatbelt, fastened,that you realized I'm no longer
living up to what I agreed toin this marriage or with these
children think for me, I'venever been one to wallow in pity
(07:48):
.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I prefer action where possible.
And so for me, once I made thatemotional shift and that
acknowledgement that the oldwhat got you here won't get you
there, kind of mindset ofacknowledging I have created a
ton of value for this businessand for myself personally by
being the person with theanswers, by being the person who
they call when they need tosend an operator in to fix stuff
(08:11):
like that has been wonderful.
But acknowledging and learningthat I can get just as much
value and I can createsignificantly more value by
leading a team of people who cananswer the bat phone, I think
there's just a real innate thingthat leaders at all level have
(08:31):
to take on, and that is whenthey can realize that they are
limited in how much value theycan create on their own.
No matter how good you are, nomatter how much of a technical
expert you are.
On their own, no matter howgood you are, no matter how much
of a technical expert you are,if you don't embrace leadership
at some point you will be cappedout on how much impact,
(08:52):
influence and change you cancause for your family, for your
business and for the world.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, how much does ego?
I mean?
You think of leaders and youthink of something you know.
You're doing the work that I doas well, and you're
encountering these leaders.
How much does ego and pride getin the way?
Being a person, it feels good,to be the person that people
come to.
Let's be real about it.
It feels good, but it's noteffective long term.
How much does ego and pride getin the way?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I would actually say it's even more basic than ego
and pride.
At the high level, I think itshows up as ego and pride, but
the reason it happens frequentlyis because for the early parts
of our careers we benefit fromknowing, and what I mean by that
is I'm the expert, I'm the guywith the answer, I can get the
(09:42):
data, I can do the analysis, Ican flip the switch, I'm the guy
that knows the answer andalmost all of our accolades
usually for the first 10 or 15years of our career, even after
we were like hobbyist leaders,we have two or three people
working for us, but most of ourvalue is still like our
individual effort.
We are given pats on the backand accolades and raises and
(10:05):
bonuses because we knew theanswer, and then, really quickly
, that changes once you get alarger team or a broader scope
or both, where knowing is nolonger the sustainable way to
add value.
And so when I talk to leaderswho are dealing with that, one
(10:32):
of the things that I try to dois make certain that they feel
permission to stop knowing theanswer.
You got a lot of value in yourcareer and validation because
you knew and people came to youto know.
If you wanna keep doing that,you should take a came to you to
know.
If you want to keep doing that,you should take a step back and
do that.
But if you want to createexponentially more value than
(10:53):
you create now, you actuallyneed to stop trying to know the
answer and you need to helpother people learn the answer
and then even more powerfullyempower other people to carry
the answer forward and then evenmore powerfully empower other
people to carry the answerforward without you, and that's
how you end up creating change.
We all have egos that we needto feed, but if we can learn and
(11:15):
realize that I can feed my needfor validation by accomplishing
through others, you canactually gain so much more
fulfillment personally by seeingthose you lead succeed and you
get to see the team do more thanyou can do on your own.
But you have to be willing togive up some of that at the
(11:35):
beginning.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, and what you're speaking to for those that are
listening and watching.
I mean, adam is really landingon what leadership really is and
it's not about being thetechnical expert, but you say
something that's really helpfulfor people.
You do get rewarded andpromoted and acknowledged before
what you know, but then it getspast there.
What do you tell the leader?
(11:57):
The one or two steps they cantake Adam, that's in that space
right now and they got to makethat they haven't gotten on that
airline and they haven't.
You know they're walking to thegate and they're feeling the
way you felt back in that day.
What do you tell them?
Like what's one or two stuffthat you would share, that they
could do?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So I would say, in my quest to create more great
leaders, one of the things Ilike to emphasize for people is
that leadership isn't about big,flashy events Like leadership
is not being on the stage of thekickoff.
Leadership is not the one-offonce a year time when you bring
your leaders together for anoffsite.
That is often showmanship.
(12:39):
It can be an important part oflike the final catalyst or the
final whipped cream on top ofthe ice cream sundae.
But really leadership is muchmore accessible than that and
the hard part about leadershipis not the behaviors themselves
that you need to embrace,because they're pretty basic and
I've got five of them we cantalk about if you want.
(13:01):
But it's actually embracing thatyou need to do them every day
and you need to do themconsistently, and 70% of the
time they're going to be easy,but 30% of the time they're
going to be hard, because that'swhen you're stressed and
something's going wrong andthere's a journal coursing
through your veins and that'swhen you are tempted to not do
these basic behaviors and becomethat problematic leader.
(13:24):
But the more we can embracesimple, consistent issues or
ideals as leaders, the more wecan show up in ways that people
will embrace.
And then those big events,those kickoffs, those offsites,
those will become significantlypowerful as opposed to one-offs
(13:45):
that people kind of say like allright, now it's back to every
day.
It's not just, you know, happy,fun time, you know give each
other high fives at the kickoff,sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, we will impact the five.
So, for people that arelistening, there's a book out,
adam, and it's called who, notwhat, and I love it because it
frames up what you're speakingto is who can do it, not what
you can do.
Who is it that you should belooking for?
Who's on your team?
Who do you make space for to bebrilliant and intelligent,
intentionally to allow them toshowcase and shine on your
(14:16):
behalf to get it done?
So who, not what, and how yougrow up in leadership, there's
going to be a lot of what youcan't do, but there's's gonna be
a lot of who's can help you getit done.
And so, if you're listening andyou're paying attention it's
not my book, but it is a bookout there.
You can find them on Amazon.
It talks about who, not what.
So what Adam is leaning intoand he trains around is who, not
what, as a leader.
I love the word that you usesustainable.
(14:36):
No matter how great you become,you become limited when it
comes to sustainability of youdoing it every day, all day.
You're going to get older,you're going to slow down,
things are going to changefaster.
You're going to want to retire.
You're going to get a family.
All these things are going tocalculate for you and you're not
going to be as accessible or asavailable as you love to be.
You're going to need otherpeople to do it.
It's just the reality of it.
(14:56):
One of the things that I sharewith people is you can't be
coach and player.
You got to decide which oneyou're going to be.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And that's where I think a lot of entrepreneurs and
founders get tripped up is, atsome point in all of our
businesses we are the player,the coach, the stats guy, the
water boy.
We do the laundry, we fold thetowels, everything right.
And so that's part of it andthat's good.
That's part of growingsomething for yourself, right.
But really the unlock tosustaining that value creation
(15:26):
is once you have been successfulin that, how do you start
identifying the things you canpeel off and start sharing that
responsibility?
And then how do you startsharing that leadership and
create something that lives pastyou?
Like, I'm working with a guyright now.
He owns an engineering firm andhe is kind of looking at
retirement in the next fiveyears and he really wants his
(15:48):
son to take over the engineeringfirm.
But his son's a younger guy andhas never led anyone, and so
they've asked me to come helpboth of them develop both sides
of that, because one, the ownerof the engineering firm, he's
got to give up some stuff, he'sgot to stop digging in and being
involved in everything, andthen his son has to step up and
(16:14):
lead on his own.
He can't just lead because he'sthe dad's son and it's his
place right.
So both of them needdevelopment to be able to make
this business that's been afamily business for the last 25
years and is on a growthtrajectory where they might
double or triple their businessin the next two or three years
to really be something that's alegacy for the father and
(16:37):
potentially provides for his sonand grandchildren for years to
come and potentially providesfor his son and grandchildren
for years to come.
But this transition point allrelies on both of them
developing new muscles andgrowing, and that's part of what
I'm trying to help them do.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes, you talked about the 30% time when it doesn't go
well, and that's when you'reprobably going to be evaluated
and assessed the most when it'sunder pressure is what I call it
.
Yep, you get evaluated morewhen you're under pressure and
there's a short timeline or ashort fuse and things are
chaotic, and leaders getevaluated in the worst of times.
When things are going well, youmanage it and you'll be okay,
(17:13):
but when your back is againstthe wall and it's under pressure
that 30% what are some thingsthat help us do well at those
moments when everybody'swatching and the lights are
bright?
Some things that help us dowell at those moments when
everybody's watching and thelights are bright.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Well, the first thing is to know that you can never
know when those times are coming.
I mean, sometimes you can havesome idea that they're coming,
but at least half of the timethey're just going to hit you
out of nowhere, right?
And so the planning for them isin the day-to-day building of
relationships and trust, whichwe'll touch on some of that in
the five.
But I think embedding a dailyrelationship with your peers and
(17:50):
with your people is key tobeing ready to survive those
super difficult times.
Because I was reading a bookyesterday.
It was talking about FEMA andhow they were prepping.
About a year before HurricaneKatrina.
They did an exercise calledHurricane Pam, where they
actually brought everyone in anddid an exercise that modeled
(18:12):
Katrina almost to the T.
It's super interesting.
We can get that later.
But one of the things they saidin that is it's really
important that in the midst ofan emergency, you're not trading
contact information.
Yes, this is not the time tohand out business cards, and in
our businesses often we don'tget to know our peers well
(18:35):
enough, especially like maybe anassistant organization.
Hey, I grew up in supply chain,so I know my supply chain VPs
pretty well but don't know myproduct or my technology or my
security VPs, because whenyou're leading a large
organization and stuff hits thefan, you're gonna need those
peers outside of your directorganization.
And so building therelationships down and sideways,
(18:59):
I think, is more important thanbuilding the relationships up.
And often, because of focus onpromotion, we develop
relationships up because that'swhat we're focused on, as
opposed to developingrelationships laterally.
And really, in an emergency, Ineed a lot of capital that I can
(19:21):
spend with my peers, so they'lltrust me, so they'll help me
achieve what I need to achieve,so they'll have enough trust
embedded that they know when toask questions and when to just
say, like well, ron said, weneed to do it.
It's clearly a big deal.
We're just going to go do itand take care of it, right.
But if you don't have anypolitical capital built up and
(19:42):
relationship trust, you're kindof exchanging business cards in
the midst of your emergency.
You know whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, adam said you know, if you know me and you
follow me, you know that Adam issitting on a lot of things that
I talk about quite often.
I mean.
So he's like triggering me tolike, okay, go here, go there.
But I know y'all are waitingfor those five and I'm
intentionally holding that backso you can hang out with us
before we get to those five.
You talk about this socialcapital and I talk about it
quite often and I like tocompare it to a credit score.
(20:10):
Yeah, yeah, because if yourcredit score is a 900, you can
kind of do what you want,finance what you want, but if
it's a 400, people walk you outto the exit door and so what?
You're speaking to Adam.
It helps me understand betterthe value of that social capital
, because when stuff hits thefan, you don't have time to
build that social capital.
You either have it or you don't.
How did you build socialcapital?
(20:32):
And then we'll go into the five.
So you think about you came upfrom on the front lines, working
your way through the system,becoming into a position of
corporate ladder.
How did you intentionally buildsocial capital on the way up
and not just to the boss?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Well, the first way I did it is I really sucked at it
and didn't do a good job.
So in my career I've had threedifferent 360 evaluations that
were done for me.
I'm a huge fan of them becauseof how impactful they were to me
, so much so that one of them Ikeep with me.
It's in a folder over here.
(21:09):
I won't go reach for it now,but I had it nine years ago and
I still read it once a quarter.
And in it there were statementslike Adam is often the best
person for the job and that'sthe only reason we worked with
him.
There were statements like theteam would prefer to work with
(21:29):
someone else, but because Adamis the most intelligent on this
topic, they will work with himbegrudgingly.
And there were there werecomments throughout this 360
that talked about what an expertI was at the work that I did,
but that on the relationshipcapital side, I was in a real
(21:53):
pickle.
Thankfully, I added enoughvalue technically that people
wanted me around.
Yes, but what I tell peoplepeople in light of my own kind
of experience was, if you're inthat position, you have created
a place where you were justhanging out on a ledge waiting
for someone for that rock faceto crumble when there's a layoff
(22:17):
coming or when something'sgoing wrong in the business or
whatever, or you have a badquarter right.
If all of your goodness for thebusiness is built on your
expertise but people hateworking with you, that will come
and bite you in the butt.
And so one of those 360s,especially, was a big part of
that shift and I'm immenselygrateful for it.
(22:38):
That's why it's one of theservices I offer now is because
it was a monumental shift for meIn that the biggest
relationship capital thing thatwas impactful for me was I am a
nice guy and lots of peoplereference that.
Hey, he's a super nice guy.
We love spending time with himpersonally.
Professionally, we don't wantto be around him, and I believed
(22:59):
that because my intentions weregood and wholesome and my work
was great.
That's what mattered.
In a way it does, but only in away.
It does right.
Once people have built up aperception of me, it's really
hard to change that, and so whatI tell people is often the
(23:20):
largest thing you need to workon social capital wise first is
you need to understand howpeople perceive you and then you
need to put that up against theway you either perceive
yourself or you want to beperceived and kind of overlay
those and get the gaps and theproblems and all that sort of
stuff and say like, oh man, I'mnot showing up how I want to
(23:40):
show up and the problems and allthat sort of stuff, and say
like, oh man, I'm not showing uphow I want to show up.
And then we go build anindividual development plan to
address each of those placeswhere the person you're showing
up as is not the person that youwant to be at the best time and
the best day and that 30% issueis often.
We have to go invest in what doyou want to be all the time and
(24:04):
define that in the light of daywhen the sun is shining and
there's rainbows and birds aresinging, and get really crisp on
who you want to be when it's adark, thundercloud day and
there's a tornado headed for you.
Because if you don't define itreally crisply before and
identify those gaps you need towork on, you're right, we get
(24:27):
judged most harshly in thosetimes of high pressure and when
adrenaline is coursing throughyour veins.
If you haven't defined who youwant to be, you will be the
worst version of yourself, andthat worst version may be highly
effective for a short period oftime.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, it's not sustainable.
I'll go back to the word ofsustainability.
You know, over time you're onseveral things that's worth
unpacking and you talk about howdo you get things done.
And once you become a leader,you get things done through
other people, the social capital.
What's the best method when youget a 360?
Not to take it personal.
(25:08):
I don't want to argue with you.
This is your podcast, ron.
It may not feel good, but itmay be very accurate and you may
need to do something about it.
But some leaders, when theyhear it, they get defensive or
they say they just don't like meor it's personal, and all these
other things that you use tovalidate how you're going to
embrace it.
How do you help get past that?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
well, you know this is your podcast, so I don't want
to necessarily argue with you,but I will take a slightly
contrarian point of view, ifthat's all right, please do.
I think you should take itpersonally really okay tell me
more, and I don't mean take itpersonally like, well, now I'm
mad at these people and I'mgoing to go do things.
That's not what I mean by takeit personally, but if you have a
(25:46):
really good 360, it should cutyou to the core.
Yes, and so I have a vividmemory.
I got that the one I'm talkingabout about one o'clock it's
like a Thursday.
I had 17 pages of typedcomments that my reviewers had
given me.
I read it and I cried in mycube and then I left the office
(26:12):
and went and saw a movie beforeI went home, so that there would
be some buffer between thatemotional state and when I got
home.
By the way, I posted about thaton LinkedIn a couple of weeks
ago and my wife said is thattrue?
I was like, yes, it's true, andthere should be some emotional
roller coaster.
If people care enough about youto share the things that you
need to work on first, you needto internalize that, because
(26:35):
people only share if they careat some level, and so when you
take it personally, you'reoffended.
The part you need to takepersonally is that you clearly
have issues to work on, notSally Sue doesn't like me
because she said bad thingsabout me.
The second thing to me abouttaking it personally is I was
not showing up as the personthat I said I wanted to be, and
(26:59):
if you're not showing up as theperson that you say you want to
believe that fits your integrityand your core values, it should
cut you to the quick and so-.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I love that you're saying that and I'm glad that
you took the different approach,because you're spot on.
I mean, it's even helping memodify the language of how I say
it.
I say, you know, don't getangry about it, but personally
you should go do something.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Yes, transformation comes from pain.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, so we're on the same page there.
So I'm happy that you know thepodcast is for all of us.
You're spot on on that.
Out of that, there should besomething that does hurt enough
for you to do something about it.
Thank you for bringing that up.
So you went to the movies,which was a really good idea to
put some buffer in between it.
Your wife finally here like wow, that was a real story.
Yes, yeah, it happens, becausemost people look at us and we
(27:46):
make it look easy.
I know it wasn't easy for youto embrace it, but what is there
anything that stood out thathelped you embrace it?
Besides, you know, let mesettle down, I cry.
I went to the movie.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
How did you get started to start making
corrections?
Corrections?
Yeah, I was blessed with anofficial and an unofficial coach
.
I worked with a third partycompany that provided a coach.
That was super helpful to mebecause they helped provide a
lens to view all the commentsthrough and help build a plan
right.
They're a third party, likethey don't have a dog in the
hunt, except they want me to besuccessful enough in my growth
that the company will use themagain.
(28:23):
Right, and so that's the beautyof what I do.
What you do is people bring usin because they want a third
party.
That's objective.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, except the fact that,
truthfully, I want to createenough value for you that you
recommend me and say, man, I'dlove to work with Ron again.
And so that coach was helpful,very helpful in building a plan.
But then also it was helpfulthat I had an unofficial coach,
(28:46):
who?
He was about two years ahead ofme and we dealt with many
similar issues.
He was a friend and when theywere kind of helping me identify
, pass forward, he wasidentified from the leadership
team as someone who had dealtvery successfully with the same
issues that I faced and thecombination of both that he had
(29:09):
experience with my issues butalso that he cared about me
meant that he could say andreinforce the hard things that
were said in a way that I knewthey came from a genuine place.
And he had the context that thethird party coach didn't have
to say, hey, you could havehandled that interaction better.
(29:30):
Or hey, you kind of played intowhat people are saying about
you there.
Or sometimes that's just Sallyand like she's a jerk, like
don't let that, you didn't screwup there, she did Right.
And having both of those really,really helped to sort through
the feedback and put an actionplan in place that was
reasonable and actionable.
(29:51):
And then that would help holdme accountable to it, because
the coach, the third party coach, they can do a lot but they're
always dependent on you know howmuch the coachee, the
participant, shares.
So having someone else who likesees the work day to day, has
context on the work to me waswas really a big part of that.
(30:13):
That helped me.
So I really encourage people tohave both a third party and a
mentor that cares about them andtheir success a third party and
a mentor that cares about themand their success and hopefully
has dealt with the same issuesand open your soul to them.
Don't hide it.
And that's the fastest way toget change is to be open to the
pain and the difficulty thatwill come from the change and
(30:35):
tell others that you're tryingto change.
And the more you tell othersyou're trying to change, the
more they'll help you change.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Absolutely, and I like that.
Adam, thank you for sharing thestory.
But you're spot on.
You're going to be transparent.
If you're going to grow, yourdoctor can't help you and give
you the right prescription ifyou're hiding what's going on.
No-transcript about the mentor.
(31:09):
You're transparent about.
Hey, I had to do some work andI wanted to do the work.
You know, one of the things Iwould say for us is, once you
get that 360, do you want to getbetter?
You have to own like are youbeing seen?
I love that.
You said I'm not even showingup the way that I want to be
seen, so you own thatimmediately, like this data is
not even letting me be seen theway that I want to be seen.
I got work to do, no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, and so just to remind folks, it's been a few
minutes since we talked aboutthis.
These are what I would say arefive basic behaviors.
These are not rocket science.
The magic in them is in doingthem every day, even when it's
really hard, even when your guttells you you know to do
something different.
And so the first number one isjust show up authentically.
(32:09):
And when I say show upauthentically, I mean one share
yourself transparently, beagenda less with your teams and
your peers and acknowledge whenthings are going to be hard.
One of the things that reallyfrustrates teams in my
experience is when the leadercomes down from the mountain,
(32:32):
comes down from the VP or theexecutive staff meeting and has
marching orders that they haveto hand out, and they act like
it's going to be easy.
They act like it's all a goodidea.
They act like it's totallyclear, with no ambiguity.
Any of us that have experiencein the working world know that's
not how it comes.
(32:52):
That's not what happens whenyou come down from the mountain,
the meeting with the CEO orwhatever, and your VP starts
handing out assignments.
But you can acknowledge thatwith your team in a way that
doesn't give them permission tonot do the work well, but
instead acknowledges hey guys, Iknow that this isn't perfectly
clear or I know this isn't goingto be completely easy.
(33:14):
How can we get what Johnny isasking for in a way that is
helpful but it's the leastburden on the team?
Because I know this is going tobe difficult right In that
moment.
We can both acknowledge thedifficulty, reinforce that we
have to meet the need, but thatas leaders we also get the
choice sometimes to do thingsreally, really, really hard or
(33:37):
maybe just a little bit lesshard by figuring out ways to do
things better or easier, fasterand kind of modeling.
All three of those at the sametime can show an authenticity to
our team that doesn't make themfeel like we're just going to
carry the company torch nomatter what, and so they can't
trust us when we tell themthings.
(33:58):
But we can show up in a waythat we can say like I'm an
officer of the company, I dohave to support the company as
best as I can, but that doesn'tmean I have to be fully
full-throated, support blindallegiance, you know, marching
off the cliff, and thatauthenticity will help people.
It's one of the components oftrust that we can talk about.
(34:20):
That'll roll through these alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Love it.
So, when you think about thethings that you're laying out
being authentic, showing up,being transparent, not going
full throttle, and taking careof the team so it doesn't be
coming from the CEO's officemaking it look easy Can you go
down the list again of the fivethings that ensure that people
capture all five of them?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Oh again, of the five things, ensure that people
capture all five of them.
Oh yeah, the five.
I'll just go one through fiveand then we can talk about the
second one.
Show up authentically, askbetter questions, share your
logical thought and decisionprocesses.
Number four is create a cultureof feedback.
And number five is think likeimprov, which is yes, if or yes
(35:05):
and instead of no.
That one especially has toimpact because it's kind of a
funny one, but I think likeimprov.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, that'll be a good one, because that'll tie
into how I operate on a dailybasis too.
So I mean, you'll bereinforcing what I think as well
.
So we hit the first show up, Ithink.
Do you want to just share anyinformation about before?
Is there something you want toshare about each one of those?
Yeah, I'll share a little bit.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, so asking better questions, We'll do this
one and then the fifth one, butto me, asking better questions
gets to what we were talkingabout earlier, about sustainable
leadership knowing versushelping, or knowing versus
creating.
Often we are tempted to askquantitative questions as
leaders how much, how many, when, how long things that can often
(35:53):
be answered with a word or asingle statistic, and then
someone answers that and we goon our merry way.
And that was an answer I findqualitative.
I find quantitative questionsto lack depth.
They are often very shallow andbecause of that, they give us,
as leaders, shallow information.
And so if you want to createmore sustainable knowledge
(36:16):
sharing and more sustainabilityas a leader, ask qualitative
questions.
So those are questions like howmuch can you explain why?
Things that can't be answeredin just a word or a sentence?
So the way that looks is canyou explain how X fits into the
(36:38):
process on the floor?
And if someone says I don'tunderstand what you mean, well,
I don't quite understand whatcomes before that step in the
process and what comes afterthat step in the process, and so
they'll give you a lot moreinformation than if you just say
hey, where is this in theprocess?
Oh, it's the seventh step, it'sover interceding.
Oh, okay, thanks, you don'tknow much more.
(37:01):
So, but if you can ask thatqualitative question, and one
that I really love is hey, whatare you concerned about?
What makes you think thatthere's a risk that we need to
mitigate in this situation?
And just listen and people willtell you everything, and often
it's the risks that we reallyneed to know about anyway.
But we ask those questions insuch a way that frequently
(37:26):
people aren't willing to sharethem, Whereas if we first say,
hey, I believe there's somerisks here, there's risks to
everything, Ron, what do youthink the risks are?
And then you'll share.
And then, as a leader, you cansay, well, if you were going to
try to mitigate those, how wouldyou mitigate those?
And like are those expensivemitigations or not expensive?
(37:47):
And all of a sudden we have areally in-depth conversation
about things in our businessthat we could fix Right, and
it's much less like playingwhere's Waldo, where I try to
ask a whole bunch of questionsall around and it really pulls
information out of people.
So ask qualitative questionsideally not quantitative
questions and model genuinecuriosity.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, it's almost.
You know you think about nowfor leaders.
You know AI is showing up onthe horizon for everyone, and
the one thing that you got to dofor AI to work effectively for
you whether you like it or notlike it, whether you support or
not support it for the audiencethe reality is you got to be
really, really good at askingquestions If you're going to get
something that's very usefulfor you, that's going to help
you do your job better.
So, Adam, you're spot on, andso, if you're going to have a
(38:33):
healthy dialogue with someone,what I've learned over time,
Adam, the better questions I ask, the more information I get and
allows other people to be smart, the more I make statements is
all about how smart, I am Amen.
So I have to become better as aleader of creating questions
from a place of curiosity andnot let me stump the chump.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yes, yeah, Sometimes the way I talk about that is,
sadly, lots of the issues in theway we evaluate people are
based on performance.
And when I say performance Idon't mean like do you do a good
job, I mean performance likeI'm in a meeting and the VP
asked me a hard question and Ianswer it in a way that
(39:18):
satisfies that VP.
Or I answer it in a way thatsatisfies that VP, or I answer
it in such a way that he's like,well, you're a freaking idiot
and that whole.
I love the term stump the chumpsort of game.
We do so much of our judgmentand performance calibration off
of those performance settingsthat this is probably a topic
(39:38):
for another time.
But what we really hurt thediversity of the people who
we're hearing information from,whether it's introvert,
extrovert, cultural differences,background differences are
people comfortable stepping upin a meeting like that or not
that we really, as leaders, ifwe're going to really embrace
bringing diverse thought intoour work, we have to really
(40:01):
avoid the stump, stump the chumpsort of game.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I love it.
I love it and thank you forbringing it up, because
everywhere we are now, peoplewant to figure out how do you
leverage it.
I'm not talking diversity whenit just comes to race and gender
.
I love that you're bringing itup and having a conversation,
because people kind of shy awayfrom it and don't want to use
the term anymore.
And it's not just about raceand it's not just about gender.
I mean, there's so much to youand I that has absolutely.
I know that when you show up,you're Caucasian and you know
(40:26):
that I'm African-American.
Let's get past that.
I hear you, but like, get intothe room and allow people to
show up as their authenticselves of the stuff that you
don't see externally, becausethere's so much more to all of
us.
I'm glad you put that on thetable.
Do you want to share anythingon your fifth one?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah.
So the fifth one think likeimprov.
So if you've ever been to animprov training or you like
improv comedy, they have amantra that is yes and.
So whenever you're doing improvyou never say no.
Improv is a back and forth sortof thing.
Somebody has an idea based onwhatever the prompt is, they get
(41:01):
out, they do their funny bitand then a laugh and then as
soon as like the last starts tocrescendo, slash, plateau, I
come out and I now kind of riffoff of what Ron just said, and
so we kind of continually buildthis together and the guiding
principle is yes and not no,because you can't keep the
(41:24):
laughs going if Ron's got himrolling and then I pop out there
I'm like no, ron, that's notright.
And then I try to like switch.
It gives everyone whiplash, thelaughter stops, people feel
weird.
So this concept of yes and andI would highlight a slight
addition to that the more thatwe can say yes and or yes if as
(41:46):
leaders, the more we'll get frompeople.
So when someone brings you anidea, as much as possible say
yes and yeah, you can do thatand do it like this.
An example of that is afterCOVID every one of us has been
to the return to office sort ofissues and different things.
We're trying to make surepeople felt welcome and that
they had reasons to be in theoffice.
(42:06):
And so one of the younger guyson my team came and said like
I'd love to bring Starbucks infor my team on the two days a
week that we're all here Like weknow when they are.
Is it cool if I do that?
I'm like, yeah, of course.
Like, use the Amex for it, it'snot a big deal.
And I said, but also like,check with your peers teams.
(42:27):
He had some peers who were out,who were remote completely, but
their team sat there.
I was like, well, ask the otherfolks who you know are going to
be there on that day too, andask the support folks.
You guys are in this group butyou work with planning and
procurement.
Ask the planning andprocurement partners that you
work with also.
And it meant that the spend was$20 or sorry, $40 instead of
(42:49):
$20.
And they did it I don't know 10times or something right, but
it created a whole bunch of buzz.
People were excited about it.
It brought those other groupsinto the area and they had a
chat in the morning, everybody'shappy to see each other, and
it's just maybe a silly example,but often with leaders, we have
people come to us and it'sreally easy to say no.
(43:10):
No is easy, yes is hard.
Often yes, and is sometimes alittle bit harder.
But how can we validate goodideas and then help our people
think more expansively?
Hey, you're just thinking aboutthe three people that work for
you.
Can you think about the threepeople that work for your peer?
So now you're thinking aboutsix people.
Can you think about the threepeople that support your team?
(43:32):
Now you're thinking about, youknow, nine people total.
That's how you create change inorganizations, is you get people
to think just a little bitwider, just widen their frame
just a smidge.
And sometimes you can't say yes.
And and that's where, ideally,you can say yes if Someone
brings an idea for a productchange or whatever, it's always
(43:52):
going to cost more money.
They're never cheaper, and soyour temptation as leaders is to
say no, right, but maybe youneed to say yes if, hey, we can
do that.
Yes, if you can help us go workwith a finance team to get some
relief in our annual plan forthat, hey, we can do that.
If we can upgrade the packaging.
(44:13):
It's going to be more expensive, but if we can also
simultaneously reduce the formfactor, we can actually
negotiate lower shipping rates.
So maybe we can do both ofthose together and offset your
higher costs with the savings.
And that's a yes if.
So you're kind of protectingmaybe your P&L or some other
issue, but you're highlightingthat we could do this if we get
(44:35):
a little bit creative, andyou're modeling for folks that
the goal of a leader is not tosay no and be protectionist.
The goal of a leader is to sayyes, if and yes and and be
expansive and creative,protecting the bottom line but
also growing the total piewherever we can.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Wow, I love it.
I mean, even in real time, thisis unpacked, we go through and
we have real conversations aboutwhatever comes up next.
Even when we got to the pointof you know this is unpacked, we
go through and we have realconversations about whatever
comes up next.
Even when we got to the pointof you know you're 360, and I
say, hey, you know no, don'ttake it personally.
You say, well, ron, I actuallythink, yeah, you should take
some of it personally.
You know so it's a yes.
And or, if you know so, I thinkthat's where you actually model
it in real time for us.
So, if you watch us, none ofit's scripted, it's real time
(45:25):
and we even practice what.
What you just said, adam, is yes, and ron, they should take
something personal because itrequires them to go do some work
, and so I tell you how do youembrace that?
And we did it real time.
So you're watching and you'relistening.
We're not just talking this,this great idea, we're talking
about these great practices thatyou put into place.
We do it in real time.
So, ideally, multiple things.
I mean you come out, you'rerunning an organization.
What are the reasons I shouldbe calling you as a business
owner, so I want to do businesspromotion with you now.
What are some things thatpeople should call you for?
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Sure, my dream what the groups I love to work with
is ideally a small team, that wework with the team, and so
that's going to be hey, we'vegot three, four, maybe as many
as eight people who we can coachtogether, and so I have a 360
tool I can bring where we dothat for the whole team and then
(46:08):
we build a development planthat can be six months or nine
months where we'll go throughcoaching and individual goals
for that whole team, and so thatideally isn't oh man,
everything is broken and fallingdown.
It's hey, this team's doinggood, but we really want to
supercharge and turbocharge anddo really a lot better and build
(46:28):
maybe a leadership team that'sgoing to take over this
organization long-term.
So that could be hey, you'vegot to.
I'll use a supply chain, sincethat's my closest experience.
Hey, we've got a high performerin procurement, planning,
operations, engineering, youknow, and HR.
We think that they're theleaders for five years from now.
We want to invest in them now.
(46:49):
Great, bring me in.
I'll help do 360s with them andhelp identify development plans
for each of them and how theycan build better teams that are
based on trust, that havesystems in place and can grow.
That's one.
The second is I also do publicspeaking, corporate speaking, so
(47:10):
keynotes, workshops, offsitesort of things, leadership team
meetings I've got one in acouple of weeks.
That is, I'm meeting with eightleaders of a bank in the morning
for a three-hour workshop andthen I've got all of the people
leaders in the bank thatafternoon and we are doing a
broader seven practical ways ofleadership Some of those we've
(47:33):
talked about today and help thembuild a team environment where
we do that.
So public speaking, corporatespeaking, sort of things.
And then the last I'll mention,I offer you know, not everybody
can bring someone in and gothrough the time or the expense
to do like a big thing with theentire team, so I also offer a
group-based coaching programthat goes three times a year.
(47:55):
My next one will start inFebruary, but I do, like I said,
three times a year 20 to 30participants in those and we
cover 12 weeks of content.
It's a broad base of leadership, includes topics we've talked
about today plus some others,but I'm trying to make it
accessible for people that maybedon't have the time or the
money, frankly, to have someonework with eight people in their
(48:18):
team for nine months.
Well, we've got other ways wecan serve that population too.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Thank you for sharing , I mean, which is important.
How do people reach you?
What's the best way?
I mean, if people want to reachout to you for podcasts, public
speaking, to come into workwith the teams, what's the most
effective way to reach out toyou and your team?
Speaker 3 (48:32):
So if you're in the in the U S, it may work for
Canada.
Also, if you'll use the shortcode 33777 and text the word
operator, so that's texting theword operator to 33777.
That'll get you into mynewsletter.
Also, there's some otherinformation there you'll get for
joining that.
(48:52):
That's how I keep in contactwith people on the regular.
And then also LinkedIn.
I post leadership thought onLinkedIn every day.
I've been posting every day forabout nine months now and plan
to keep that going.
So both of those would be thebest place to get to me.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Awesome, awesome.
And I know it's LinkedIn, it'slive.
I've been there so you knoweverybody that comes on.
I go check out what they'redoing on LinkedIn so I can know
who they are and what they'redoing and so you know as people
that's on the show.
So for the show, so foreveryone that's watching is.
Is there any last minuteinformation you'd love to share?
Speaker 3 (49:23):
one nugget you haven't dropped that kind of
popped up in your head that youwant to share with the leaders
that are listening if you wantto be a leader, you have to
embrace that it's not about youand frequently those of us that
are leaders, we start out witharrogance and ego problems and
all kinds of things.
That was part of my 360.
And over time, the only way wecan become great leaders is
(49:48):
really embracing that change andtransformation and value comes
from the people that we workwith and that if we want them to
grow and develop and becomebetter than we are, we have to
care about them at a deep level.
And it will take time, effortand sweat and it will not be
(50:11):
easy.
But if you can embrace caringfor people, the people will take
care of your business.
Yes, and it will be a businesstransformation for you, because
so few leaders in the worldactually care about their people
that you'll stand out and Iwould just urge your audience to
(50:32):
care about the people andeverything else will sort itself
out.
And if you can show upauthentically and empathetically
every day, everything else willwork.
You just got to trust theprocess a little bit.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yes, yes, and those that follow me, that are fans
and been following me for awhile.
You know I didn't send out anynotes to talk about what he's
talking about.
He says so much stuff that's inalignment with what we believe
and how we live and our values.
But I always talk about do youreally care, or do you care
about the scoreboard?
Are you easy to work for andwork with as long as you're
winning?
And if the only time thatyou're easy to work with is when
(51:05):
the scoreboard says what youwanted to say or the spreadsheet
at the bottom gives you thenumber that you want, there's
somebody that at some point thatwon't work for them and so they
want to know that you care,even when the numbers don't
reflect what you want them,because you're not going to win
every season.
It's just not reality.
Nobody wins every season, and nomatter how good you are, you're
going to have to rebuild andyou don't get to win every game,
(51:27):
but at the end of the day, youget to make a difference.
For those that are watching,those are the following Adam, I
think you did a phenomenal jobof just being transparent, being
honest and talking about thingsthat you've actually done in
the kitchen on your journey.
Not some book that you read orsomething that you Googled and
you pulled up.
You've actually done in thekitchen on your journey, not
some book that you read orsomething that you Googled and
you pulled up.
You've actually walked throughthis yourself and you shared
about who you were and how youhad to change and manage your
(51:47):
own growth.
For those of you that arewatching, we release a podcast
every Monday, a different leadfrom around the world to help
you get better.
And as we close out 2024, whata great way to end it to talk
about how do you use a 360?
.
2024, what a great way to endit to talk about how do you use
a 360 and with five things thatwill help you that you can do
every single day, and you needto do them every single day,
even when it's hard, and Adamalready shared 70% of the time
(52:10):
it's going to be easy to do.
30% of the time you're going tostruggle, but still do it.
Make the first step.
If you need to get in touchwith us, adam already shared the
best way to reach out to himReach out to us.
You know Global Force Strategies.
You can find us on LinkedIn.
You can follow me on LinkedIn,which is the primary source of
reaching out to me, or mywebsite, which you will also
find if you go to LinkedIn.
We'd love to talk to you,either one of us.
(52:30):
One thing I've learned aboutsmall business is I compliment
and help complete other businessowners that do what I do.
So it's not a competition.
So either one of us and if Ican put you in touch with Adam,
I'll be happy to do that,looking forward to working with
you.
Happy New Year to everyonethat's following.
Hope you have a really, reallygreat time.
We will be into 2025 once yousee this, but thank you all for
following us and we hope thatyou continue to follow us for
(52:51):
the whole year.
Until then, adam and I willsign off.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(53:17):
leadership.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!