January 8, 2024 • 44 mins
Join us on a remarkable odyssey with Manoel, a luminary who carved his path from the engineering labs of Brazil to the pinnacle of corporate leadership. In an intimate exchange with me, Ron Harvey, we dissect the extraordinary transformation that catapulted Manoel into one of Procter & Gamble's youngest general managers and an illustrious figurehead across several billion-dollar companies. Absorb the essence of Manoel's wisdom on leadership, corporate culture, and his philosophy that aligns professional passion with personal fulfillment. This guiding principle reshaped his journey and inspired countless others.
Manoel's narrative is one of staunch determination and strategic pivots, resonating with my leap from engineering dissatisfaction to the rich realm of leadership consultancy. This episode is a tapestry of personal stories, showcasing the pivotal moments when we realized what ignited our professional zeal. It's about the audacity to chase one's dreams, the sacrifices made en route, and the undying belief in one's vision. If you've ever stood at the precipice of a career crossroads, our conversation offers a compass to navigate by, highlighting the importance of joy in work and the guts it sometimes takes to chase it.
We wrap up with a treasure trove of insights from Manoel's book "The Secret of Culture Change," where he unveils the transformative power of organizational culture through authentic storytelling. His anecdotes underscore the virtues of humility, self-affirmation, and the courage to face one's fears. With actionable advice for aspiring leaders and seasoned veterans alike, this episode is a masterclass in leadership resilience. Tune in as we share experiences to empower you to lead confidently, cultivate a culture of innovation, and embrace the growth that comes from aligning your career with your heart's true calling.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unpacked Podcasts with your host
leadership consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron's delighted to have youjoin us as he unpacks and shares
his leadership experience,designed to help you in your
leadership journey.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
(00:21):
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Ron Harvey.
Good morning.
I'm Ron Harvey, the vicepresident and chief operating
officer Global Core Strategiesand Consulting, based out of
Columbia, south Carolina, aleadership development firm
where we focus on helpingleaders create a winning culture
in organizations.
How do they do a much betterjob of creating a place where
people want to work, desire towork and excited about coming to
work, and we truly believe thatone of the fundamental
(00:48):
characteristics is leadership,and so we built an entire
organization around that.
But today, every single Monday,I pause and release a podcast
with leaders from across theglobe, from all industries, all
backgrounds, that share theirexpertise, their experiences and
the challenges they may haveencountered themselves, and we
call that Unpacked with RonHarvey.
So today I'm really, reallyhonored to be able to have
(01:10):
another guest joining us today.
Manuel is coming in fromOrlando, florida, but once he
hear him you're going to havequestions, but he's in Orlando,
is where he's sitting at today.
But I'm always excited to haveguests from all different
backgrounds.
I love the idea of diversityand diversity across all
spectrums of our society, notjust a race, black or white, or
Hispanic or Latino.
(01:30):
That's about diversity and it'strue meaning of valuing
everybody across the board.
So I'm super excited to haveyou, manuel.
Welcome to, unpacked with RonHarvey.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Thank you very much.
I'm glad to be here and thanksfor having me.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes, yes.
So could you do a short introfor us?
You know, so people get to knowa little bit about you, where
you are, where you may havetraveled, and I'll give you the
microphone and just share withus what you'd like for us to
know about you.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Okay, so I was born and raised in Brazil, I went to
engineering school there.
I got married there, had mythree kids there and five years
after I graduated I found outthat I wasn't born to be an
engineer, and by that time I wasalmost 30 years old.
(02:16):
I was married, I had a verystable job, three kids, but I
wasn't happy and as aconsequence I was average in
what I did.
But I did a lot of soulsearching, found out that I
wanted to shift my career pathto marketing, but very hard to
(02:37):
make that change without furthereducation.
This is what I found out, so Iventured.
At that time my English wasmuch worse than it is today, but
I ventured to apply to Harvardto get my MBA.
And I did apply, after twoyears of preparation, of taking
(02:58):
English classes, preparing forGMAT, and I was accepted.
That was back in 1988.
So I went to Harvard, Iresigned from my job, took the
risk.
I started my American dream.
That's where it started.
I spent two years there and whenI graduated, the job market was
(03:22):
super, super hot.
I got 19 job offers and I took,to my wife's upset, I took the
lowest paying one, which wasProcter Gamble.
However, I knew why I wastaking that job.
Procter was an outstandingschool and an excellent company
(03:45):
with a great culture to recruitthe best, to train people, to
give them opportunities to growand to write their own ticket if
people did well, and I wassuper happy.
I started in my first two yearsin Cincinnati, ohio, as an
assistant brand manager to PeptoBismo.
(04:07):
That was my first brand, but Idid super well.
After that they sent me to well, make the story short, I went
to Brazil, back to Brazil, forthree years.
Then they sent me to Venezuela,when Venezuela was a livable
place because they had theirLatin American headquarters
(04:28):
there and I had the fastestcareer path to general
management, which is a very highposition within Procter Gamble
in the history of the company ofmore than 200 years.
At that time, the averagetiming to get from the entry
level position, where theybrought everybody in, to general
(04:50):
manager was 15 years and I didit in seven.
So by my seventh year I was oneof the 28 general managers with
P&L responsibility within P&G.
I stayed there for another twoyears.
Then I got some hard to declinejob offers to become a CEO and
(05:15):
then I took the first one, whichwas American Online in 2000,
which at that time was thelargest, most talked about
internet company.
World has changed a lot, but itwas so.
I became the president for AOLin Brazil.
And then I got three other CEOjobs of multi-billion dollar
(05:39):
companies.
One was a large telecom companyin Brazil, controlled by the
Spanish Telefonica, which is oneof the largest
telecommunications companies inthe world with operations in
multiple countries.
I then became a managingdirector for the residential
business for TelefonicaInternational out of Spain, in
(06:03):
Madrid.
And then after that I did twoother things.
I was CEO of a large retailerof electronics and appliances,
pretty much like Best Buy.
In fact, I used Best Buy as mymodel to restructure the company
and sell it, because this iswhat the controlling
(06:25):
shareholders wanted to do.
I did that for four years.
Then I retired for the firsttime, came to the US, but four
months later a private equitycompany and a family that
controlled the very largeactually the largest media
non-TV media company south ofthe equator.
(06:46):
They wanted to launch a startupin the education space and
eventually take the companypublic.
So I went back to Brazil,started up the company.
In three years it became thefifth largest educational
company in the world.
We took it public in 2012,.
(07:09):
In 2014, the initial privateequity sold there and the family
sold their stakes to a largerprivate equity company.
And that's when I left, retired,came to the US to live in Utah
initially, because that's wheremy kids were, and over these
(07:29):
past nine years, what I've doneis look for opportunities to
invest in early stage companieswhere I could add some value.
I looked for youngentrepreneurs that could take
advantage of my experience, usemy experience.
I didn't want to have an activerole in any one of those
(07:50):
businesses and I made twooutstanding investments.
I was very lucky.
I think I had a good clinicaleye as well, because I made lots
of acquisitions as a CEO in mylast job.
So I bought in 2012, a stake ina company that was starting up
(08:10):
in the real estate space.
The three founding partnerswere in their late 20s.
I became relatively active,first, pretty much bringing
investors to help the companygrow.
Today, it is a company with $5billion in assets under
management.
It is one of the top 50 realestate companies in the US,
(08:35):
called Peek Capital Partners,based in Utah, and, by the way,
I spent eight of the last 10years in Utah.
The second investment was anangel round.
I really liked the idea and Iinvested.
The CEO, who was the son of afriend, asked me to be his coach
(08:55):
, and this is what I still doand, making a long story short,
over the last four years, thecompany was founded in 2019.
Pura Sands that's the name ofthe company went from an
evaluation of $20 million, whichis when I invested, to more
(09:17):
than a billion dollars.
Today they have larger privateequities in the game.
I would say they will probablybe going public in the next two
or three years.
It's an outstanding companygrowing like crazy, and more
recently, I wrote a book withtwo professors on culture change
, so I was intrigued when youintroduced yourself about your
(09:43):
interest in culture.
I think it's probably the mostimportant topic that senior
managers need to pay attentionto when they're leading an
organization, the kind ofculture they have, and if the
culture is aligned with thestrategy, because if it is not,
culture eats the strategy forlunch.
(10:06):
This is not my quote or mythinking, but it's from Peter
Drucker.
So you may have a wonderfulstrategy, if the culture is not
aligned, it's not appropriate todeliver on that strategy.
The culture will eat thestrategy for lunch.
And that's what our book wasabout, what it was launched last
(10:26):
August.
It's called the Secret ofCulture Change how to Build
Authentic Stories that Transformyour Organization.
And other than that, I enjoyspending time with my 10
grandkids.
Six of them live here inOrlando one of the reasons why I
moved and four are in Utah,where I'm going this coming
(10:48):
Thursday.
I still have a house there, andthat's pretty much myself.
I've been married for 41 yearsand this house is my house
number 38, where I hope tosettle.
So it was a long introduction,but it's a very unique
background as well.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It is, I mean phenomenal background and so
much to really unpack.
And if we got, where do wespend the best time for the
listener audience?
Because you bring a wealth ofknowledge and wealth of
experience you know fromengineering to realizing at that
time and well, when you realizethat you were not happy right
and making that hard decisionwhich leaders have to make how
(11:32):
did you really come to the ideathat engineering wasn't for you
and how hard was it for you tomake that shift?
And it was risky.
You had a family, you hadchildren, you had a lot of
responsibilities on yourshoulders, and that comes with
leadership.
How did you manage thateffectively for the people that
are listening behind the curtainCan you unpack?
How did you make that, eventhough it was very difficult?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, first of all, finding out that I wasn't happy
was relatively easy.
I was working in a no-yrefinery.
The environment was veryinhospitable, polluted.
I didn't like the activities.
I was a project engineer.
So when you wake up in themorning and you're not really
(12:16):
really willing and lookingforward to going to work, it's a
very important warning signbecause if you don't like what
you're doing, it's very unlikelythat you're going to be
successful.
In fact, I think liking whatyou do is one of the key
(12:36):
ingredients for professionalsuccess and that's what drove my
success as an executive,starting with P&G.
I had a meteoric career when Iwas 40 years old.
I was a CEO of a $10 billioncompany in sales 40.
But I was doing what I love todo.
(12:57):
I woke up in the morning.
I was really looking forward togo.
How did I come about findingout that I wanted to do
marketing?
Yes, one of the things that Ididn't say was that when I was a
college student, I started up acollege prep school business
with three other partners whichdid really well.
(13:17):
At one point in time we hadmore than 2,000 students
enrolled and it was a nicebusiness, had a good reputation,
was growing every year and Iwas responsible for the sales
and marketing part.
We split the work amongst thefour of us and I really liked
that.
I really found my heart there.
(13:40):
So one day I read in a businessmagazine an article about the
Harvard Business School and how80% of the students went there
to change career paths.
And when I read the article Isaid that's where I'm going.
I had no money to pay for myschool, my English was broken.
(14:03):
And that's my second verystrong belief.
The first one is you have tolike what you do.
And the second belief is thatwhen you want something bad
enough and you have faith thatyou're going to get there and
you do everything in your powerto get there, there's nothing
(14:24):
that can stop you.
And so two years later I gotaccepted.
I got a scholarship.
You know, I sold my business,which paid for about 10% of the
total cost, which was high forme, because having to feed a
family of five, you know, whilegoing to school was hard, I
lived very poorly.
(14:45):
I didn't have a car in Boston,so I had to take buses to go to
supermarkets.
It was hard.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
But it was a life-changing experience for me.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I'm so happy that I made that decision and it
changed my life.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Thank you for sharing .
You shared a lot more.
I'll unpack a little bit of it.
There's some keywords that youshared in the manual that I want
the audience to pay attentionto, because you're giving
ingredients and I always tellpeople it's the recipe of how
people did it, more than thestory, and there are nuggets to
success.
It leads a trail and so you'vebeen super successful.
But what I heard from you is yougot to like what you're really
(15:23):
doing and you got to be able tounderstand what liking it is.
I would love to do it a littledeeper.
How do you know when you likeit or don't like it?
Then you said you got to have adesire to be successful.
That drives it.
What's your desire?
Do you want it bad enough?
Do you have the faith that it'sgoing to be okay?
Then you lean in and say thenyou got to do the work, you got
(15:45):
to get up, you got to do thethings that it's going to take
to get there and you're going tohave to make some sacrifices.
You went without a car.
You live very poorly.
You made a lot of, I guess,concessions to what you needed
versus what you wanted and yousay I'm willing to let go of
these things.
I want to get to what I need tobe doing in real time.
So you left a lot of clues tosuccess.
(16:08):
The question is how do youngleaders because it's easy to
chase money, especially if youhave a family to feed to say I
gotta stay here because I gotthis family, I have these bills,
I got these children to feed?
How did you really know whenyou like what you're doing
enough to make the sacrifices,to do the work, to go without
(16:28):
for a while because you like itso much, you're willing to make
the sacrifices?
How did you know you liked itenough?
So you went into marketing, youwent into sales and you knew
your role on that team, thosefour of you.
You knew your role.
How did you determine that youliked it enough to stick with it
for so many years?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Well, you get signs to yourself that you're liking
it First.
You want to wake up in themorning and go do the work and
you look forward to it and youfind satisfaction in what you're
doing.
You want to learn more aboutwhat you're doing I took in the
(17:04):
first two years.
Proctor and Gamble offers anarray of short-term training
seminars for those who arestarting up.
That goes from how to write aone-page memo, which Proctor and
Gamble is famous for, to how doyou interact with an
advertising agent, how do youwrite a concept in marketing,
(17:24):
and you are expected to takeeach one of those seminars in
the manual before the secondyear ends.
I took all of them twice.
I have never heard of anybodywho did that because I wanted to
learn, I wanted to excel,because I liked it.
And when you like somethingyou're doing, when you have
passion, and then you see thefirst results coming in and the
(17:47):
celebration is hard to describewhat you feel when you see the
results of your labor, of yourwork, of your thinking
materializing into business,results that were not achieved
before.
So the job also tells you thatyou're liking it, because you
(18:07):
start receiving feedback frompeople and they come and they
ask you how did you do this?
What do you think of what I'mdoing?
Even when you're starting, thatcan happen.
That happened to me.
So it's the heart telling youyou like it.
It's how you feel when you'redoing it and how other people
(18:28):
sees you, and the willingness tocelebrate when you get the
results.
There are a bunch of thingsthat will make your heart beat.
I don't know how to describe itbetter than this.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh yes, you're spot on.
Listen to your heart, it willtell you, and sometimes it may
make you nervous, it makes youafraid, but listen to your heart
.
It does give you clues andsignals of your likeness.
A question that I have for youyou did something in Propagamal
that had not been done in thehistory of the company.
You accelerated really, reallyfast.
How did you overcome some ofthe challenges or the naysayers?
(19:03):
Because, as leaders, sometimeswhat you think you can do, other
people don't think it can bedone.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Okay, so I have a good story to tell.
One of the things that peoplewho are starting their careers
do not understand is thatleadership and positions of
leadership are two verydifferent things.
You can be a leader withoutbeing the manager or the
(19:28):
director, or the VP or the CEO,and there are CEOs who are not
leaders.
Nobody listens to them, nobodyfollows them, et cetera.
So when I got my firstassignment as a healthcare brand
manager in Brazil who was,which was losing a lot of money
(19:49):
at that time, they gave me avery sexy job.
They gave me the job of beingthe pen shampoo which had just
been launched around the world,and it was a success to be the
brand manager and I looked atthe job.
But I also was aware that therewas a line of products that P&G
(20:13):
Brazil had licensed to thirdparties in Brazil the VIX line,
you know, vaporov, vix, cof,ciro, et cetera, and some other
lines, and we were making$500,000 from those licensing
fees and I was reporting to thecountry manager at that time.
(20:34):
I came back to him and said,look, I don't wanna do this.
You know it's sexy, it's P&G ismost successful global brand
right now, but we have a goldenmind here and I would like to
bring it in house.
Would you give me a chance?
And he said okay, look, write abusiness plan.
(20:54):
And this decision is somethingthat I'm gonna have to take up
to P&G's international president, who was one position below the
CEO.
He became the CEO later it'svery well known, john Pepper so
I wrote my recommendation.
My boss was really pleased.
He became a believer, and sodid John Pepper, the president
(21:17):
of P&G International, and thenthey took it to the CEO, because
the CEO had given the operationone year to break even or they
were going to shut it down.
And then I received, about aweek later, the recommendation
back, after the CEO had revisedit, which was very unusual with
the following notes on top,handwritten notes this
(21:40):
recommendation makes me wannacry.
We will never make money withthis.
That was his comment, but I'llleave it up to you, john.
So they took the record andthey told me to go ahead and do
it.
So up to this point.
There are two lessons here.
One A leader has to haveinitiative, has to express what
(22:08):
he or she believes, and I didthat when I was a junior brand
manager.
I said thank you for thebusiness you're giving me, but
no, thank you, no, thank you.
Here's an idea how many youngmanagers do that?
Not many.
The usual attitude is they getan assignment and they say, okay
(22:29):
, I'm going to do the best I canto make this thing work.
But sometimes you have betterideas If you do.
Present them, embrace them,propose them, even if it's
different than the currentthinking.
So I convinced two guys up theline.
(22:49):
Second lesson they had thecourage to say no to the CEO.
Okay, you don't like it, but webelieve in it, so we're going
to do it.
We're going to take the risk.
A lot of people like to pleasethe bosses, especially when it's
the CEO.
Right, it's a very fearedperson in the organization for
some reasons, and that one ofthe first things you need to do
(23:12):
to be a good CEO is to take thatfear out so people can come to
you and express ideas to you andfeel that they have an open
door, et cetera.
But that's another subject.
So, making a long story short,in three years the healthcare
business in Brazil was, you know, the third most profitable in
(23:32):
the world of PNG.
Most profitable than the firsttwo were the US and Germany, but
it was most profitable thanCanada, then Japan, then all the
other developed countries, andI came into the radar screen of
the top leaders within PNG.
So my career path at that timewas determined Okay, here's a
(23:55):
guy who does something that hehas proposed he asked him to do.
It goes against theunderstanding and the wishes of
the CEO and in three years hemakes this thing big.
So who is this guy?
So I started to be invitedaround the world to share what
we had been doing.
We wrote papers, we madepresentations and we contributed
(24:18):
a lot to the way that PNGmanaged those businesses in
other countries.
So sometimes you just have toclose your ears to the naysayers
, stick to what you believe, andthen you know.
I had that recommendation forthree years in front of my desk
(24:38):
with the comments from the CEO.
This makes me cry.
This will never work.
I said one day I am going togive this back to him with a big
check.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
That's what drove me, so thank you for sharing that
story.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I'm reading a book now which is excellent.
It's called the Five Regrets ofthe Dying.
I just started to read it, butthe first regrets and
professionally I'm not going towell, I'm going to have some,
but for the most part I want islive the life that reflects who
(25:16):
you are, not the life thatothers want you to live.
That's so wise and soapplicable in business as well.
If you're okay, what do youwant me to do?
You're going to be a nobody,but if you believe in stuff and
you do your best and you striveto achieve and you are yourself
(25:39):
when you're working, you'regoing to go places.
What was the book again onthere, emmanuel?
It's called the Five Regrets ofthe Dying.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
The Dying.
Okay, awesome, thank you forsharing it so phenomenal story
for those of you that arewatching and that are listening.
He got a handwritten note thatsaid this makes me want to cry.
We will never make money, andhe had to push through that.
He had to be able to put thatin front and say one day I'm
going to hand this note backwith a check and I'm going to do
(26:09):
the work.
I believe it's enough that Igot to figure it out and in
leadership, here's what I lovewhen you're sharing the story.
Leadership requires risk, but Iwant to go somewhere that I
think is important for ourlisteners, if we can.
You mentioned as a CEO.
You're going to have to figureout a way, because fear is
associated a lot withapproaching and talking and
(26:30):
engaging with the CEO.
But you said something that Iwant to unpack a little bit with
you how do you help leadersthat doesn't exist with that
position?
How do you help them remove thefear that comes with that title
, that position, because quiteoften it does?
How do you help leaders thatare in that role remove the fear
that comes with that position?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, as you move up into the organization, the risks
increase.
The business risks increasebecause you're managing a larger
business the risks related topeople, to a position from
people.
They also increase becauseyou're responsible for more
people, you get more exposure.
(27:08):
When you get to the top, thisis the most watched position
from everybody in theorganization and the most
criticized position, for good orbad, people evaluate you all
the time.
As a consequence, the momentsof fear become more frequent.
If I said I am a fearless guy,I don't think those exist.
(27:33):
I think what does exist areleaders who are able to overcome
their fear.
I had my eyes on a piece ofresearch I don't remember when,
I don't remember from whichinstitute, but saying that 90%
of the CEOs amongst whom therewere very successful CEOs that
(27:56):
90% of them had a fear to fail.
So what do you have to do?
I think that having a supportgroup is super important.
I always had a coach.
From my first days as anassistant brand manager within
P&G To my last CEO position, Ihad a coach, more experienced
(28:20):
guy, that I admired.
I could grab the phone and say,look, I'm facing this, I'm
thinking about this.
This is the opposition that I'mreceiving.
How do I overcome it?
What would you do if you werein my shoes?
So having a coach helps.
Second, having a good teamaround you is super important
(28:41):
because they can be goodadvisors.
There's no place for lack ofhumility when you're a leader if
you want to succeed.
So at times and I'll give you anexample early in my career, I
was dead set in not advertisingone of the brands of the
(29:04):
healthcare brands.
I had become the healthcarebrand manager.
I was dead set in notadvertising one of the brands.
However, my assistant brandmanager, who was a great guy he
became the executive responsiblelater in life for the entire
(29:26):
Gillette brand globally.
It's a big job.
It's a huge job, but he was myassistant brand manager in
Brazil.
He came to me and said look, Ithink you're wrong, I think you
should reconsider, and I said no, I am not going to do it.
I already had some successes,so I was full of myself and I'm
(29:48):
not going to do it.
This is why I'm not going to doit, but thank you.
Well, that's focused on theother businesses.
Then he came to me a secondtime, but this time he came with
the entire team of healthcaremanufacturing, product
development, the sales peopleand said look, we're all here
(30:10):
for the second time to ask youto reconsider and advertise this
brand.
Can we all come in and make apresentation?
We have reserved that meetingroom it's meeting room closed by
my office.
And I said okay, if you allbelieve in that, so I Am
probably wrong.
So let me hear what you have tosay.
(30:32):
By the end of the presentation,I was not a hundred percent
convinced, but I was in a verydifferent position than before.
I was saying this might workand my reaction was well, if you
all believe in it, go ahead anddo it.
If it works, the price is yours.
But I hope you understand thatif you fail, the failure is mine
(30:53):
.
So be careful on how you do it.
So it was another tremendoussuccess was so successful that
the results landed on the CEO'sDesk and he sent me a note
saying great advertising, let'smake sure that we share this
with the other countries.
So you have to be humble.
(31:13):
How do you overcome fear?
I would say three things.
One have a coach, have a goodteam that you can trust on of
good people.
Be careful on how you selectthe people.
Who's working for you.
You have to have an, a classteam, and the third one you have
to talk to yourself.
I remember that when I arrivedin Venezuela, my manager he was
(31:35):
ruthless.
In the very first meeting I hadwith him he had already formed
an evaluation that I was a veryblack and white guy, that I
needed to be more Flexible.
In the very first interactionand he was brutal and he shook
my self confidence.
But then I started to do anexercise in the bathroom, the
(31:58):
mirror of my bed, I started topost my achievements in life.
You know, a copy of my Harvarddiploma, the ranking that I got
in the entrance examination forthe school I went to in Brazil,
which was the first engineeringschool in the Americas very,
very difficult to get in withpictures of my classmates and
(32:22):
the notes that I got from theCEO when I gave him a check of
$40 million, which was theprofit we had made in the
healthcare business, togetherwith the notes that he wrote it
we would never make money.
So I put those things in themirror and every morning before
going to work I had to go to thebathroom, look myself in the
(32:44):
mirror, looked at those thingsand I said this is who you are.
So what?
Adjardin, jesus his name.
He became a good friend when heleft his job.
He thanked me for being the guywho helped him the most.
Adjardin is not going to shakeyou.
He's not going to destroy you,because this is who you are.
You're better than that.
(33:05):
So you have to talk to yourselfas well.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for the transparency, because
oftentimes, leaders, when you gohigh, you don't think your
confidence can get shaken.
Your confidence can get shakenat any level, and the visual
that you gave and shared Is howdo you recapture who you are?
Because when they get shaken,you got to have reminders of who
you are.
So everybody that's watchingthis listening manual said he
(33:29):
went into the bathroom, he beganto put up and remind himself
All he had accomplished, all hehad gone through to help him
gain back the confidence thatwas shaken by this person that
he actually Ended up helping themost.
That's leadership, and so themost important person that you
can lead at those times is howdo you lead yourself Through
these obstacles, barriers andchallenges that may make you
(33:50):
feel like you're not worthyanymore.
So thank you for sharing.
I mean, if you've donephenomenal stuff Probably one
out of all the people I'veinterviewed and walk through the
model of when your confidencegets shaken, how do you
recapture it?
If you're going to be aleadership, there will be a time
when you're gonna have to doexactly what Manuel said You're
gonna have to recapture yourconfidence Because something's
(34:13):
gonna unravel a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, because without this I mean the organization
proceeds when you're shaking,when you do not know which
direction.
Yes, you can fake it a littlebit, but not for too long.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
So unless you really have it.
Before we get ready to closeout, you said something that I
would love for you to unpack alittle bit.
When the team came in, youdidn't hear it the first time.
You say no, I'm not going, I'm,this is what I'm doing.
You were pretty solid.
And then they came up with theentire team.
So you mentioned that bringyour team with you.
But when it came that time, youwant 100%.
But you weren't where you usedto be and you said something
(34:51):
that was really instrumental,that I loved.
If it goes well, the prize istheirs.
If it goes wrong, the failureis yours as a leader.
That's real how do you helpleaders understand that when it
goes Well, your team gets allthe accolades.
When it goes wrong, you have todo with all the failure.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
First of all, the final decisions are always yours
in your business.
Yes, one of my role models wasa guy.
His name is Georgie Paulo Lemon.
His Brazilian is the richestBrazilian.
He is a guy who started, alsowent to Harvard, started as a
banker, as an employee, and then, after the bank was sold, he
(35:32):
got some money.
He bought a brewery in Braziland he had a dream and the dream
was this is going to be thelargest beer company in the
world.
Can you imagine that in theearly 70s, brazil if nothing, it
still is very irrelevant inmany aspects as a developing
country and they were managingbeer company there?
Speaker 1 (35:57):
and he told his employees.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
We're here to make it the largest in the world.
Make a long story short.
His last acquisition and how'sher bush?
He bought Budweiser when theybecame the largest beer company
in the world.
Today he controls not only thatcompany but Burger King, kraft
(36:20):
Heinz, because now they want tobe the largest food company in
the world and he has, and Iwould suggest that your audience
Takes a look.
I don't know if there is aversion of that in in English,
but if not, it can contact meand I'll be glad to share.
It's the 18 secrets of a winningculture, and culture is
(36:45):
something very dear to my heartand one of the things, one of
those 18 principles it's 18principles of a winning culture
is Good teamwork andconversations are great, but at
the end of the day, someone hasto make a decision.
When you're a leader in theorganization, the last word, the
last decision, has got to beorcs, either because you
(37:08):
delegated and you're willing indelegated Decision making to
someone, or you made the finaldecision.
So if it fails, there's noexcuse.
It's your failure.
And if the team works toachieve success, if you don't
give the credit to them, therewon't be any loyalty.
(37:29):
Nobody's gonna be loyal to youwhen you take all the credit by
yourself for yourself.
So to me this was a golden ruleif it fails, it's my failure.
If we do it something thatworks, then it's the team's
credit.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Nominal, lots of information, a lot of great
nuggets on a successful career,and thank you for sharing you
know the journey with us.
I would love to be able to youknow, probably in another three
months really invite you backand pick another topic around
leadership.
I'm especially my own culture,since you have a book about it.
And how about your book andwhat's in your book?
I would love for the audienceto be able to.
So, as you wrap up and sharethree nuggets that you want
(38:05):
people to walk away with, canyou also share the title of your
book and where people can findthat at as well?
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Okay, the title of the book is the secret of
culture change.
People can find it on Amazonand subtitle is how to build
authentic stories that transformyour organization.
This book is full of real lifestories of Leaders who have
(38:33):
transformed their organizations.
It is very diverse.
One of the endorsers of the bookis the current CEO of the Red
Cross.
She was also a professor atHarvard Business School.
She said it has excellentcontent but it's also very
entertaining.
We have about 40 stories ofreal life stories Of real
(38:54):
leaders, very diverse in termsof gender, geography, sizes of
the businesses, industriespretty much in line with what
you described as being Diversityat the beginning of this show,
and so I'm very proud of thework as great reviews, great
endorsements and real lifestories.
We interviewed lots of CEOs Tocome up with the theories that
(39:18):
we've included in the book,which is very simple.
I also believe that theultimate Sophistication is
simplicity.
Book is very simple but veryentertaining, and I think it's
very powerful because it showshow successful leaders have D
drastically changed the culturesof their organizations to align
(39:40):
with a new, needed strategy todeliver great business results
across the board?
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Absolutely, it's on Amazon, so you can put it on
Kimdo.
Audio book is out there as well.
Paperback.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
This is how it goes.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yes, I pulled it up on Amazon, so please go out and
support.
I mean phenomenal, thank you.
So what are the three nuggetsthat you will leave with leaders
that are listening today?
What would you leave them with?
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Well, from what we talked about today, I would
leave it with you know, beyourself in the business, live
your own life, do what you likeand, as you do, be yourself,
don't leave the business lifethat others think is best for
you.
Second, had the courage topropose the things you believe
(40:23):
in.
And finally and I'm trying tofocus on the things that I
believe apply across the board,from the beginning of the career
to the end of one's career andthe last thing, you know,
develop a passion for winningand imagine what winning looks
(40:44):
like, what achieving looks like.
Go to bed thinking of that,seeing yourself there, eat that
when you're having your meals,dream with that when you're
sleeping and work like crazy toachieve it.
And you will.
Most of the time you will.
(41:07):
I believe a lot in the humanpotential if you apply some
principle, some of which we'vediscussed today.
You know I was born in a familywhere my dad made $1,000 in
today's money per month.
I am in the top 0.1% of wealthand income in this country, the
richest country in the world,and I didn't inherit anything.
(41:31):
It was through work, courageand taking risks that I got here
.
Anybody can have a similarstory, and anybody I mean
there's no barriers for thehuman potential.
I am a firm believer in that.
I've seen it in us.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, and I think that's a great place to park it
at.
There are no barriers to humanpotential.
Anybody anybody, if you'relistening can reach the success
that you desire.
But you're gonna have to havesome principles and you have to
be disciplined and apply themconsistently.
Phenomenal phenomenon.
So maybe how would someonereach out to you?
I will continue to promote thebook and I'll post it on
everything for us.
If someone wants to reach outto you, I definitely wanna
(42:12):
invite you back.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
The easiest way is by reaching me through email.
I have an investment companycalled MXF, ms Mary X's in Xanax
and FS Frank, so it's MLA,m-l-a my initials at
(42:36):
M-X-F-Investmentscom.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Okay, awesome, awesome.
So if you wanna reach us thebest way, you have an investment
company and would love to havemore conversations, I'll send
you an email offline and connectwith you by phone.
I'm in Florida quite often.
I will probably make a tripwhen I'm there to start to
Orlando Really just to sit downand have coffee with you and
have a nice conversation.
Oh, no, it's my pleasure.
Yeah, I would love to.
Yes, yes.
Well, thank you so much again,everyone.
(43:01):
Thank you all for tuning in toUnpacked with Ron Harvey, where
we have leaders that talk abouttheir journey, their exposure,
and so you had a phenomenalconversation with Manuel today,
going from engineering to takinga step and going into Harvard,
and with no money to get inthere and finding scholarships
and studying for two years andprepping.
So thank you all for joining uson Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
We will release a podcast everysingle Monday with a different
(43:23):
leader from around the world,and our leaders show up and
they're super transparent.
They tell you their successes,they tell you their challenges,
but they overcome them, andthat's what I want you to get
out of every leader that showsup.
That's on the podcast how toOvercome, which I call
resiliency, the ability tobounce back regardless of what
your face was.
So thank you for joining us.
We will release a podcast everysingle Monday Ron Harvey,
(43:45):
global Core Strategies andConsulting and having Manuel
join us today.
Thank you all for listening anduntil next time, we look
forward to releasing anotherpodcast with you.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron Unpacked's sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference,
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
(44:18):
matter.
Welcome to Unpacked Podcasts with your host
leadership consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron's delighted to have youjoin us as he unpacks and shares
his leadership experience,designed to help you in your
leadership journey.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
(00:21):
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Ron Harvey.
Good morning.
I'm Ron Harvey, the vicepresident and chief operating
officer Global Core Strategiesand Consulting, based out of
Columbia, south Carolina, aleadership development firm
where we focus on helpingleaders create a winning culture
in organizations.
How do they do a much betterjob of creating a place where
people want to work, desire towork and excited about coming to
work, and we truly believe thatone of the fundamental
(00:48):
characteristics is leadership,and so we built an entire
organization around that.
But today, every single Monday,I pause and release a podcast
with leaders from across theglobe, from all industries, all
backgrounds, that share theirexpertise, their experiences and
the challenges they may haveencountered themselves, and we
call that Unpacked with RonHarvey.
So today I'm really, reallyhonored to be able to have
(01:10):
another guest joining us today.
Manuel is coming in fromOrlando, florida, but once he
hear him you're going to havequestions, but he's in Orlando,
is where he's sitting at today.
But I'm always excited to haveguests from all different
backgrounds.
I love the idea of diversityand diversity across all
spectrums of our society, notjust a race, black or white, or
Hispanic or Latino.
(01:30):
That's about diversity and it'strue meaning of valuing
everybody across the board.
So I'm super excited to haveyou, manuel.
Welcome to, unpacked with RonHarvey.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Thank you very much.
I'm glad to be here and thanksfor having me.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes, yes.
So could you do a short introfor us?
You know, so people get to knowa little bit about you, where
you are, where you may havetraveled, and I'll give you the
microphone and just share withus what you'd like for us to
know about you.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Okay, so I was born and raised in Brazil, I went to
engineering school there.
I got married there, had mythree kids there and five years
after I graduated I found outthat I wasn't born to be an
engineer, and by that time I wasalmost 30 years old.
(02:16):
I was married, I had a verystable job, three kids, but I
wasn't happy and as aconsequence I was average in
what I did.
But I did a lot of soulsearching, found out that I
wanted to shift my career pathto marketing, but very hard to
(02:37):
make that change without furthereducation.
This is what I found out, so Iventured.
At that time my English wasmuch worse than it is today, but
I ventured to apply to Harvardto get my MBA.
And I did apply, after twoyears of preparation, of taking
(02:58):
English classes, preparing forGMAT, and I was accepted.
That was back in 1988.
So I went to Harvard, Iresigned from my job, took the
risk.
I started my American dream.
That's where it started.
I spent two years there and whenI graduated, the job market was
(03:22):
super, super hot.
I got 19 job offers and I took,to my wife's upset, I took the
lowest paying one, which wasProcter Gamble.
However, I knew why I wastaking that job.
Procter was an outstandingschool and an excellent company
(03:45):
with a great culture to recruitthe best, to train people, to
give them opportunities to growand to write their own ticket if
people did well, and I wassuper happy.
I started in my first two yearsin Cincinnati, ohio, as an
assistant brand manager to PeptoBismo.
(04:07):
That was my first brand, but Idid super well.
After that they sent me to well, make the story short, I went
to Brazil, back to Brazil, forthree years.
Then they sent me to Venezuela,when Venezuela was a livable
place because they had theirLatin American headquarters
(04:28):
there and I had the fastestcareer path to general
management, which is a very highposition within Procter Gamble
in the history of the company ofmore than 200 years.
At that time, the averagetiming to get from the entry
level position, where theybrought everybody in, to general
(04:50):
manager was 15 years and I didit in seven.
So by my seventh year I was oneof the 28 general managers with
P&L responsibility within P&G.
I stayed there for another twoyears.
Then I got some hard to declinejob offers to become a CEO and
(05:15):
then I took the first one, whichwas American Online in 2000,
which at that time was thelargest, most talked about
internet company.
World has changed a lot, but itwas so.
I became the president for AOLin Brazil.
And then I got three other CEOjobs of multi-billion dollar
(05:39):
companies.
One was a large telecom companyin Brazil, controlled by the
Spanish Telefonica, which is oneof the largest
telecommunications companies inthe world with operations in
multiple countries.
I then became a managingdirector for the residential
business for TelefonicaInternational out of Spain, in
(06:03):
Madrid.
And then after that I did twoother things.
I was CEO of a large retailerof electronics and appliances,
pretty much like Best Buy.
In fact, I used Best Buy as mymodel to restructure the company
and sell it, because this iswhat the controlling
(06:25):
shareholders wanted to do.
I did that for four years.
Then I retired for the firsttime, came to the US, but four
months later a private equitycompany and a family that
controlled the very largeactually the largest media
non-TV media company south ofthe equator.
(06:46):
They wanted to launch a startupin the education space and
eventually take the companypublic.
So I went back to Brazil,started up the company.
In three years it became thefifth largest educational
company in the world.
We took it public in 2012,.
(07:09):
In 2014, the initial privateequity sold there and the family
sold their stakes to a largerprivate equity company.
And that's when I left, retired,came to the US to live in Utah
initially, because that's wheremy kids were, and over these
(07:29):
past nine years, what I've doneis look for opportunities to
invest in early stage companieswhere I could add some value.
I looked for youngentrepreneurs that could take
advantage of my experience, usemy experience.
I didn't want to have an activerole in any one of those
(07:50):
businesses and I made twooutstanding investments.
I was very lucky.
I think I had a good clinicaleye as well, because I made lots
of acquisitions as a CEO in mylast job.
So I bought in 2012, a stake ina company that was starting up
(08:10):
in the real estate space.
The three founding partnerswere in their late 20s.
I became relatively active,first, pretty much bringing
investors to help the companygrow.
Today, it is a company with $5billion in assets under
management.
It is one of the top 50 realestate companies in the US,
(08:35):
called Peek Capital Partners,based in Utah, and, by the way,
I spent eight of the last 10years in Utah.
The second investment was anangel round.
I really liked the idea and Iinvested.
The CEO, who was the son of afriend, asked me to be his coach
(08:55):
, and this is what I still doand, making a long story short,
over the last four years, thecompany was founded in 2019.
Pura Sands that's the name ofthe company went from an
evaluation of $20 million, whichis when I invested, to more
(09:17):
than a billion dollars.
Today they have larger privateequities in the game.
I would say they will probablybe going public in the next two
or three years.
It's an outstanding companygrowing like crazy, and more
recently, I wrote a book withtwo professors on culture change
, so I was intrigued when youintroduced yourself about your
(09:43):
interest in culture.
I think it's probably the mostimportant topic that senior
managers need to pay attentionto when they're leading an
organization, the kind ofculture they have, and if the
culture is aligned with thestrategy, because if it is not,
culture eats the strategy forlunch.
(10:06):
This is not my quote or mythinking, but it's from Peter
Drucker.
So you may have a wonderfulstrategy, if the culture is not
aligned, it's not appropriate todeliver on that strategy.
The culture will eat thestrategy for lunch.
And that's what our book wasabout, what it was launched last
(10:26):
August.
It's called the Secret ofCulture Change how to Build
Authentic Stories that Transformyour Organization.
And other than that, I enjoyspending time with my 10
grandkids.
Six of them live here inOrlando one of the reasons why I
moved and four are in Utah,where I'm going this coming
(10:48):
Thursday.
I still have a house there, andthat's pretty much myself.
I've been married for 41 yearsand this house is my house
number 38, where I hope tosettle.
So it was a long introduction,but it's a very unique
background as well.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It is, I mean phenomenal background and so
much to really unpack.
And if we got, where do wespend the best time for the
listener audience?
Because you bring a wealth ofknowledge and wealth of
experience you know fromengineering to realizing at that
time and well, when you realizethat you were not happy right
and making that hard decisionwhich leaders have to make how
(11:32):
did you really come to the ideathat engineering wasn't for you
and how hard was it for you tomake that shift?
And it was risky.
You had a family, you hadchildren, you had a lot of
responsibilities on yourshoulders, and that comes with
leadership.
How did you manage thateffectively for the people that
are listening behind the curtainCan you unpack?
How did you make that, eventhough it was very difficult?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, first of all, finding out that I wasn't happy
was relatively easy.
I was working in a no-yrefinery.
The environment was veryinhospitable, polluted.
I didn't like the activities.
I was a project engineer.
So when you wake up in themorning and you're not really
(12:16):
really willing and lookingforward to going to work, it's a
very important warning signbecause if you don't like what
you're doing, it's very unlikelythat you're going to be
successful.
In fact, I think liking whatyou do is one of the key
(12:36):
ingredients for professionalsuccess and that's what drove my
success as an executive,starting with P&G.
I had a meteoric career when Iwas 40 years old.
I was a CEO of a $10 billioncompany in sales 40.
But I was doing what I love todo.
(12:57):
I woke up in the morning.
I was really looking forward togo.
How did I come about findingout that I wanted to do
marketing?
Yes, one of the things that Ididn't say was that when I was a
college student, I started up acollege prep school business
with three other partners whichdid really well.
(13:17):
At one point in time we hadmore than 2,000 students
enrolled and it was a nicebusiness, had a good reputation,
was growing every year and Iwas responsible for the sales
and marketing part.
We split the work amongst thefour of us and I really liked
that.
I really found my heart there.
(13:40):
So one day I read in a businessmagazine an article about the
Harvard Business School and how80% of the students went there
to change career paths.
And when I read the article Isaid that's where I'm going.
I had no money to pay for myschool, my English was broken.
(14:03):
And that's my second verystrong belief.
The first one is you have tolike what you do.
And the second belief is thatwhen you want something bad
enough and you have faith thatyou're going to get there and
you do everything in your powerto get there, there's nothing
(14:24):
that can stop you.
And so two years later I gotaccepted.
I got a scholarship.
You know, I sold my business,which paid for about 10% of the
total cost, which was high forme, because having to feed a
family of five, you know, whilegoing to school was hard, I
lived very poorly.
(14:45):
I didn't have a car in Boston,so I had to take buses to go to
supermarkets.
It was hard.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
But it was a life-changing experience for me.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I'm so happy that I made that decision and it
changed my life.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Thank you for sharing .
You shared a lot more.
I'll unpack a little bit of it.
There's some keywords that youshared in the manual that I want
the audience to pay attentionto, because you're giving
ingredients and I always tellpeople it's the recipe of how
people did it, more than thestory, and there are nuggets to
success.
It leads a trail and so you'vebeen super successful.
But what I heard from you is yougot to like what you're really
(15:23):
doing and you got to be able tounderstand what liking it is.
I would love to do it a littledeeper.
How do you know when you likeit or don't like it?
Then you said you got to have adesire to be successful.
That drives it.
What's your desire?
Do you want it bad enough?
Do you have the faith that it'sgoing to be okay?
Then you lean in and say thenyou got to do the work, you got
(15:45):
to get up, you got to do thethings that it's going to take
to get there and you're going tohave to make some sacrifices.
You went without a car.
You live very poorly.
You made a lot of, I guess,concessions to what you needed
versus what you wanted and yousay I'm willing to let go of
these things.
I want to get to what I need tobe doing in real time.
So you left a lot of clues tosuccess.
(16:08):
The question is how do youngleaders because it's easy to
chase money, especially if youhave a family to feed to say I
gotta stay here because I gotthis family, I have these bills,
I got these children to feed?
How did you really know whenyou like what you're doing
enough to make the sacrifices,to do the work, to go without
(16:28):
for a while because you like itso much, you're willing to make
the sacrifices?
How did you know you liked itenough?
So you went into marketing, youwent into sales and you knew
your role on that team, thosefour of you.
You knew your role.
How did you determine that youliked it enough to stick with it
for so many years?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Well, you get signs to yourself that you're liking
it First.
You want to wake up in themorning and go do the work and
you look forward to it and youfind satisfaction in what you're
doing.
You want to learn more aboutwhat you're doing I took in the
(17:04):
first two years.
Proctor and Gamble offers anarray of short-term training
seminars for those who arestarting up.
That goes from how to write aone-page memo, which Proctor and
Gamble is famous for, to how doyou interact with an
advertising agent, how do youwrite a concept in marketing,
(17:24):
and you are expected to takeeach one of those seminars in
the manual before the secondyear ends.
I took all of them twice.
I have never heard of anybodywho did that because I wanted to
learn, I wanted to excel,because I liked it.
And when you like somethingyou're doing, when you have
passion, and then you see thefirst results coming in and the
(17:47):
celebration is hard to describewhat you feel when you see the
results of your labor, of yourwork, of your thinking
materializing into business,results that were not achieved
before.
So the job also tells you thatyou're liking it, because you
(18:07):
start receiving feedback frompeople and they come and they
ask you how did you do this?
What do you think of what I'mdoing?
Even when you're starting, thatcan happen.
That happened to me.
So it's the heart telling youyou like it.
It's how you feel when you'redoing it and how other people
(18:28):
sees you, and the willingness tocelebrate when you get the
results.
There are a bunch of thingsthat will make your heart beat.
I don't know how to describe itbetter than this.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh yes, you're spot on.
Listen to your heart, it willtell you, and sometimes it may
make you nervous, it makes youafraid, but listen to your heart
.
It does give you clues andsignals of your likeness.
A question that I have for youyou did something in Propagamal
that had not been done in thehistory of the company.
You accelerated really, reallyfast.
How did you overcome some ofthe challenges or the naysayers?
(19:03):
Because, as leaders, sometimeswhat you think you can do, other
people don't think it can bedone.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Okay, so I have a good story to tell.
One of the things that peoplewho are starting their careers
do not understand is thatleadership and positions of
leadership are two verydifferent things.
You can be a leader withoutbeing the manager or the
(19:28):
director, or the VP or the CEO,and there are CEOs who are not
leaders.
Nobody listens to them, nobodyfollows them, et cetera.
So when I got my firstassignment as a healthcare brand
manager in Brazil who was,which was losing a lot of money
(19:49):
at that time, they gave me avery sexy job.
They gave me the job of beingthe pen shampoo which had just
been launched around the world,and it was a success to be the
brand manager and I looked atthe job.
But I also was aware that therewas a line of products that P&G
(20:13):
Brazil had licensed to thirdparties in Brazil the VIX line,
you know, vaporov, vix, cof,ciro, et cetera, and some other
lines, and we were making$500,000 from those licensing
fees and I was reporting to thecountry manager at that time.
(20:34):
I came back to him and said,look, I don't wanna do this.
You know it's sexy, it's P&G ismost successful global brand
right now, but we have a goldenmind here and I would like to
bring it in house.
Would you give me a chance?
And he said okay, look, write abusiness plan.
(20:54):
And this decision is somethingthat I'm gonna have to take up
to P&G's international president, who was one position below the
CEO.
He became the CEO later it'svery well known, john Pepper so
I wrote my recommendation.
My boss was really pleased.
He became a believer, and sodid John Pepper, the president
(21:17):
of P&G International, and thenthey took it to the CEO, because
the CEO had given the operationone year to break even or they
were going to shut it down.
And then I received, about aweek later, the recommendation
back, after the CEO had revisedit, which was very unusual with
the following notes on top,handwritten notes this
(21:40):
recommendation makes me wannacry.
We will never make money withthis.
That was his comment, but I'llleave it up to you, john.
So they took the record andthey told me to go ahead and do
it.
So up to this point.
There are two lessons here.
One A leader has to haveinitiative, has to express what
(22:08):
he or she believes, and I didthat when I was a junior brand
manager.
I said thank you for thebusiness you're giving me, but
no, thank you, no, thank you.
Here's an idea how many youngmanagers do that?
Not many.
The usual attitude is they getan assignment and they say, okay
(22:29):
, I'm going to do the best I canto make this thing work.
But sometimes you have betterideas If you do.
Present them, embrace them,propose them, even if it's
different than the currentthinking.
So I convinced two guys up theline.
(22:49):
Second lesson they had thecourage to say no to the CEO.
Okay, you don't like it, but webelieve in it, so we're going
to do it.
We're going to take the risk.
A lot of people like to pleasethe bosses, especially when it's
the CEO.
Right, it's a very fearedperson in the organization for
some reasons, and that one ofthe first things you need to do
(23:12):
to be a good CEO is to take thatfear out so people can come to
you and express ideas to you andfeel that they have an open
door, et cetera.
But that's another subject.
So, making a long story short,in three years the healthcare
business in Brazil was, you know, the third most profitable in
(23:32):
the world of PNG.
Most profitable than the firsttwo were the US and Germany, but
it was most profitable thanCanada, then Japan, then all the
other developed countries, andI came into the radar screen of
the top leaders within PNG.
So my career path at that timewas determined Okay, here's a
(23:55):
guy who does something that hehas proposed he asked him to do.
It goes against theunderstanding and the wishes of
the CEO and in three years hemakes this thing big.
So who is this guy?
So I started to be invitedaround the world to share what
we had been doing.
We wrote papers, we madepresentations and we contributed
(24:18):
a lot to the way that PNGmanaged those businesses in
other countries.
So sometimes you just have toclose your ears to the naysayers
, stick to what you believe, andthen you know.
I had that recommendation forthree years in front of my desk
(24:38):
with the comments from the CEO.
This makes me cry.
This will never work.
I said one day I am going togive this back to him with a big
check.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
That's what drove me, so thank you for sharing that
story.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I'm reading a book now which is excellent.
It's called the Five Regrets ofthe Dying.
I just started to read it, butthe first regrets and
professionally I'm not going towell, I'm going to have some,
but for the most part I want islive the life that reflects who
(25:16):
you are, not the life thatothers want you to live.
That's so wise and soapplicable in business as well.
If you're okay, what do youwant me to do?
You're going to be a nobody,but if you believe in stuff and
you do your best and you striveto achieve and you are yourself
(25:39):
when you're working, you'regoing to go places.
What was the book again onthere, emmanuel?
It's called the Five Regrets ofthe Dying.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
The Dying.
Okay, awesome, thank you forsharing it so phenomenal story
for those of you that arewatching and that are listening.
He got a handwritten note thatsaid this makes me want to cry.
We will never make money, andhe had to push through that.
He had to be able to put thatin front and say one day I'm
going to hand this note backwith a check and I'm going to do
(26:09):
the work.
I believe it's enough that Igot to figure it out and in
leadership, here's what I lovewhen you're sharing the story.
Leadership requires risk, but Iwant to go somewhere that I
think is important for ourlisteners, if we can.
You mentioned as a CEO.
You're going to have to figureout a way, because fear is
associated a lot withapproaching and talking and
(26:30):
engaging with the CEO.
But you said something that Iwant to unpack a little bit with
you how do you help leadersthat doesn't exist with that
position?
How do you help them remove thefear that comes with that title
, that position, because quiteoften it does?
How do you help leaders thatare in that role remove the fear
that comes with that position?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, as you move up into the organization, the risks
increase.
The business risks increasebecause you're managing a larger
business the risks related topeople, to a position from
people.
They also increase becauseyou're responsible for more
people, you get more exposure.
(27:08):
When you get to the top, thisis the most watched position
from everybody in theorganization and the most
criticized position, for good orbad, people evaluate you all
the time.
As a consequence, the momentsof fear become more frequent.
If I said I am a fearless guy,I don't think those exist.
(27:33):
I think what does exist areleaders who are able to overcome
their fear.
I had my eyes on a piece ofresearch I don't remember when,
I don't remember from whichinstitute, but saying that 90%
of the CEOs amongst whom therewere very successful CEOs that
(27:56):
90% of them had a fear to fail.
So what do you have to do?
I think that having a supportgroup is super important.
I always had a coach.
From my first days as anassistant brand manager within
P&G To my last CEO position, Ihad a coach, more experienced
(28:20):
guy, that I admired.
I could grab the phone and say,look, I'm facing this, I'm
thinking about this.
This is the opposition that I'mreceiving.
How do I overcome it?
What would you do if you werein my shoes?
So having a coach helps.
Second, having a good teamaround you is super important
(28:41):
because they can be goodadvisors.
There's no place for lack ofhumility when you're a leader if
you want to succeed.
So at times and I'll give you anexample early in my career, I
was dead set in not advertisingone of the brands of the
(29:04):
healthcare brands.
I had become the healthcarebrand manager.
I was dead set in notadvertising one of the brands.
However, my assistant brandmanager, who was a great guy he
became the executive responsiblelater in life for the entire
(29:26):
Gillette brand globally.
It's a big job.
It's a huge job, but he was myassistant brand manager in
Brazil.
He came to me and said look, Ithink you're wrong, I think you
should reconsider, and I said no, I am not going to do it.
I already had some successes,so I was full of myself and I'm
(29:48):
not going to do it.
This is why I'm not going to doit, but thank you.
Well, that's focused on theother businesses.
Then he came to me a secondtime, but this time he came with
the entire team of healthcaremanufacturing, product
development, the sales peopleand said look, we're all here
(30:10):
for the second time to ask youto reconsider and advertise this
brand.
Can we all come in and make apresentation?
We have reserved that meetingroom it's meeting room closed by
my office.
And I said okay, if you allbelieve in that, so I Am
probably wrong.
So let me hear what you have tosay.
(30:32):
By the end of the presentation,I was not a hundred percent
convinced, but I was in a verydifferent position than before.
I was saying this might workand my reaction was well, if you
all believe in it, go ahead anddo it.
If it works, the price is yours.
But I hope you understand thatif you fail, the failure is mine
(30:53):
.
So be careful on how you do it.
So it was another tremendoussuccess was so successful that
the results landed on the CEO'sDesk and he sent me a note
saying great advertising, let'smake sure that we share this
with the other countries.
So you have to be humble.
(31:13):
How do you overcome fear?
I would say three things.
One have a coach, have a goodteam that you can trust on of
good people.
Be careful on how you selectthe people.
Who's working for you.
You have to have an, a classteam, and the third one you have
to talk to yourself.
I remember that when I arrivedin Venezuela, my manager he was
(31:35):
ruthless.
In the very first meeting I hadwith him he had already formed
an evaluation that I was a veryblack and white guy, that I
needed to be more Flexible.
In the very first interactionand he was brutal and he shook
my self confidence.
But then I started to do anexercise in the bathroom, the
(31:58):
mirror of my bed, I started topost my achievements in life.
You know, a copy of my Harvarddiploma, the ranking that I got
in the entrance examination forthe school I went to in Brazil,
which was the first engineeringschool in the Americas very,
very difficult to get in withpictures of my classmates and
(32:22):
the notes that I got from theCEO when I gave him a check of
$40 million, which was theprofit we had made in the
healthcare business, togetherwith the notes that he wrote it
we would never make money.
So I put those things in themirror and every morning before
going to work I had to go to thebathroom, look myself in the
(32:44):
mirror, looked at those thingsand I said this is who you are.
So what?
Adjardin, jesus his name.
He became a good friend when heleft his job.
He thanked me for being the guywho helped him the most.
Adjardin is not going to shakeyou.
He's not going to destroy you,because this is who you are.
You're better than that.
(33:05):
So you have to talk to yourselfas well.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for the transparency, because
oftentimes, leaders, when you gohigh, you don't think your
confidence can get shaken.
Your confidence can get shakenat any level, and the visual
that you gave and shared Is howdo you recapture who you are?
Because when they get shaken,you got to have reminders of who
you are.
So everybody that's watchingthis listening manual said he
(33:29):
went into the bathroom, he beganto put up and remind himself
All he had accomplished, all hehad gone through to help him
gain back the confidence thatwas shaken by this person that
he actually Ended up helping themost.
That's leadership, and so themost important person that you
can lead at those times is howdo you lead yourself Through
these obstacles, barriers andchallenges that may make you
(33:50):
feel like you're not worthyanymore.
So thank you for sharing.
I mean, if you've donephenomenal stuff Probably one
out of all the people I'veinterviewed and walk through the
model of when your confidencegets shaken, how do you
recapture it?
If you're going to be aleadership, there will be a time
when you're gonna have to doexactly what Manuel said You're
gonna have to recapture yourconfidence Because something's
(34:13):
gonna unravel a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, because without this I mean the organization
proceeds when you're shaking,when you do not know which
direction.
Yes, you can fake it a littlebit, but not for too long.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
So unless you really have it.
Before we get ready to closeout, you said something that I
would love for you to unpack alittle bit.
When the team came in, youdidn't hear it the first time.
You say no, I'm not going, I'm,this is what I'm doing.
You were pretty solid.
And then they came up with theentire team.
So you mentioned that bringyour team with you.
But when it came that time, youwant 100%.
But you weren't where you usedto be and you said something
(34:51):
that was really instrumental,that I loved.
If it goes well, the prize istheirs.
If it goes wrong, the failureis yours as a leader.
That's real how do you helpleaders understand that when it
goes Well, your team gets allthe accolades.
When it goes wrong, you have todo with all the failure.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
First of all, the final decisions are always yours
in your business.
Yes, one of my role models wasa guy.
His name is Georgie Paulo Lemon.
His Brazilian is the richestBrazilian.
He is a guy who started, alsowent to Harvard, started as a
banker, as an employee, and then, after the bank was sold, he
(35:32):
got some money.
He bought a brewery in Braziland he had a dream and the dream
was this is going to be thelargest beer company in the
world.
Can you imagine that in theearly 70s, brazil if nothing, it
still is very irrelevant inmany aspects as a developing
country and they were managingbeer company there?
Speaker 1 (35:57):
and he told his employees.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
We're here to make it the largest in the world.
Make a long story short.
His last acquisition and how'sher bush?
He bought Budweiser when theybecame the largest beer company
in the world.
Today he controls not only thatcompany but Burger King, kraft
(36:20):
Heinz, because now they want tobe the largest food company in
the world and he has, and Iwould suggest that your audience
Takes a look.
I don't know if there is aversion of that in in English,
but if not, it can contact meand I'll be glad to share.
It's the 18 secrets of a winningculture, and culture is
(36:45):
something very dear to my heartand one of the things, one of
those 18 principles it's 18principles of a winning culture
is Good teamwork andconversations are great, but at
the end of the day, someone hasto make a decision.
When you're a leader in theorganization, the last word, the
last decision, has got to beorcs, either because you
(37:08):
delegated and you're willing indelegated Decision making to
someone, or you made the finaldecision.
So if it fails, there's noexcuse.
It's your failure.
And if the team works toachieve success, if you don't
give the credit to them, therewon't be any loyalty.
(37:29):
Nobody's gonna be loyal to youwhen you take all the credit by
yourself for yourself.
So to me this was a golden ruleif it fails, it's my failure.
If we do it something thatworks, then it's the team's
credit.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Nominal, lots of information, a lot of great
nuggets on a successful career,and thank you for sharing you
know the journey with us.
I would love to be able to youknow, probably in another three
months really invite you backand pick another topic around
leadership.
I'm especially my own culture,since you have a book about it.
And how about your book andwhat's in your book?
I would love for the audienceto be able to.
So, as you wrap up and sharethree nuggets that you want
(38:05):
people to walk away with, canyou also share the title of your
book and where people can findthat at as well?
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Okay, the title of the book is the secret of
culture change.
People can find it on Amazonand subtitle is how to build
authentic stories that transformyour organization.
This book is full of real lifestories of Leaders who have
(38:33):
transformed their organizations.
It is very diverse.
One of the endorsers of the bookis the current CEO of the Red
Cross.
She was also a professor atHarvard Business School.
She said it has excellentcontent but it's also very
entertaining.
We have about 40 stories ofreal life stories Of real
(38:54):
leaders, very diverse in termsof gender, geography, sizes of
the businesses, industriespretty much in line with what
you described as being Diversityat the beginning of this show,
and so I'm very proud of thework as great reviews, great
endorsements and real lifestories.
We interviewed lots of CEOs Tocome up with the theories that
(39:18):
we've included in the book,which is very simple.
I also believe that theultimate Sophistication is
simplicity.
Book is very simple but veryentertaining, and I think it's
very powerful because it showshow successful leaders have D
drastically changed the culturesof their organizations to align
(39:40):
with a new, needed strategy todeliver great business results
across the board?
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Absolutely, it's on Amazon, so you can put it on
Kimdo.
Audio book is out there as well.
Paperback.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
This is how it goes.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yes, I pulled it up on Amazon, so please go out and
support.
I mean phenomenal, thank you.
So what are the three nuggetsthat you will leave with leaders
that are listening today?
What would you leave them with?
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Well, from what we talked about today, I would
leave it with you know, beyourself in the business, live
your own life, do what you likeand, as you do, be yourself,
don't leave the business lifethat others think is best for
you.
Second, had the courage topropose the things you believe
(40:23):
in.
And finally and I'm trying tofocus on the things that I
believe apply across the board,from the beginning of the career
to the end of one's career andthe last thing, you know,
develop a passion for winningand imagine what winning looks
(40:44):
like, what achieving looks like.
Go to bed thinking of that,seeing yourself there, eat that
when you're having your meals,dream with that when you're
sleeping and work like crazy toachieve it.
And you will.
Most of the time you will.
(41:07):
I believe a lot in the humanpotential if you apply some
principle, some of which we'vediscussed today.
You know I was born in a familywhere my dad made $1,000 in
today's money per month.
I am in the top 0.1% of wealthand income in this country, the
richest country in the world,and I didn't inherit anything.
(41:31):
It was through work, courageand taking risks that I got here
.
Anybody can have a similarstory, and anybody I mean
there's no barriers for thehuman potential.
I am a firm believer in that.
I've seen it in us.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, and I think that's a great place to park it
at.
There are no barriers to humanpotential.
Anybody anybody, if you'relistening can reach the success
that you desire.
But you're gonna have to havesome principles and you have to
be disciplined and apply themconsistently.
Phenomenal phenomenon.
So maybe how would someonereach out to you?
I will continue to promote thebook and I'll post it on
everything for us.
If someone wants to reach outto you, I definitely wanna
(42:12):
invite you back.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
The easiest way is by reaching me through email.
I have an investment companycalled MXF, ms Mary X's in Xanax
and FS Frank, so it's MLA,m-l-a my initials at
(42:36):
M-X-F-Investmentscom.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Okay, awesome, awesome.
So if you wanna reach us thebest way, you have an investment
company and would love to havemore conversations, I'll send
you an email offline and connectwith you by phone.
I'm in Florida quite often.
I will probably make a tripwhen I'm there to start to
Orlando Really just to sit downand have coffee with you and
have a nice conversation.
Oh, no, it's my pleasure.
Yeah, I would love to.
Yes, yes.
Well, thank you so much again,everyone.
(43:01):
Thank you all for tuning in toUnpacked with Ron Harvey, where
we have leaders that talk abouttheir journey, their exposure,
and so you had a phenomenalconversation with Manuel today,
going from engineering to takinga step and going into Harvard,
and with no money to get inthere and finding scholarships
and studying for two years andprepping.
So thank you all for joining uson Unpacked with Ron Harvey.
We will release a podcast everysingle Monday with a different
(43:23):
leader from around the world,and our leaders show up and
they're super transparent.
They tell you their successes,they tell you their challenges,
but they overcome them, andthat's what I want you to get
out of every leader that showsup.
That's on the podcast how toOvercome, which I call
resiliency, the ability tobounce back regardless of what
your face was.
So thank you for joining us.
We will release a podcast everysingle Monday Ron Harvey,
(43:45):
global Core Strategies andConsulting and having Manuel
join us today.
Thank you all for listening anduntil next time, we look
forward to releasing anotherpodcast with you.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron Unpacked's sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference,
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
(44:18):
matter.
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