July 7, 2025 • 35 mins
Leadership consultant Ali Stewart shares her decades of wisdom about what makes leaders truly effective, revealing that while challenges like pandemics and AI may evolve, the core elements of great leadership remain surprisingly consistent.
• Leaders need both high challenge and high support to get commitment and high achievement from their teams
• Effective leaders are visible with a consistent, authentic personal style that builds trust
• Ground rules must establish clear rights and responsibilities for both leaders and team members
• The leadership process progresses through visioning, mobilizing, developing, and enabling stages
• Feedback should be a daily practice that is specific and conditional
• Being explicit about what behaviors demonstrate success is critical for effective leadership
• The best leaders adapt their communication style to meet different team members' needs
• Having a mentor significantly accelerates leadership development
Pay it forward by not only finding a mentor who's ahead of where you want to be, but also by mentoring someone who's where you once started. Your experience is invaluable to others on their leadership journey.
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host
leadership consultant, ronHarvey of GlobalCore Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good morning.
This is Ron Harvey.
I'm the vice president and theChief Operating Officer of
Global Core Strategies andConsulting, which is a
professional leadershipdevelopment firm based out of
Columbia, south Carolina.
We love helping leaders bebetter connected to their
workforce, which actually getseverything done in organizations
.
So leadership is valuable andwe spend a lot of time figuring
it out, understanding thenuances of it so we can help our
(00:43):
leaders grow and take care oftheir people.
Understanding the nuances of itso we can help our leaders grow
and take care of their people.
But what we do on thisparticular show, every single
week we release a differentepisode of Unpacked with Ron
Harvey, and the goal of that istwo things One, to showcase the
talent that's across our globeso not just where I live, but
across the entire globe of allthe professionals that we bring
on the show.
The second part is to give yousomething that's very helpful
(01:03):
for you in your role and yourposition as a leader.
So hopefully you'll enjoy thissession as we get ready to
invite our guests onto theplatform and talk more about
leadership, unpacking it andsome things that I will learn as
well.
So always learn something fromevery guest.
So I'm going to pause and I'mgoing to invite Ali on and she's
going to introduce herself andtell you who she is and what she
(01:24):
does, or whatever she choosesto do.
Quite honestly, it's unpacked.
We don't know what's going tohappen, except for we're going
to talk leadership.
So, ali, let me let youintroduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Thank you so much, ron, and it's lovely to be here
with you.
I am Ali Stewart.
We are your, like, yourtransformational learning and
development expert.
We go into companies.
We can sort out all thetraining and development needs
for individuals, for teams, forleaders, for organizations, from
(01:56):
kind of recruitment to exit.
So we help leaders to lead withstrength, dignity and
compassion.
We help individuals to get outof their own way and shine and
we use a beautiful tool for, asthe general language for
communication, that kind ofpsychometric tool.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yes, I love it.
She's speaking, so you'respeaking my language and
probably everybody else iswatching.
You know this transformationalthing that's happening
constantly, so thank you forsharing the information that who
you are, what you do.
So when you think of it'sevolved.
You've been in business over 20years.
We were talking in the greenroom before we got started and
you've been in long we've beenin business.
How much has leadership evolvedover 20 years, based on your
(02:40):
experience?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I think the world has evolved, yes, and leaders have
to step up to every challenge,but actually the fundamental
skill of leadership hasn'treally changed very much.
We just have to be ready foreach and every challenge,
whatever you know like pandemic,like financial crash, ai,
(03:02):
anything that comes along.
Leaders have to be ready.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, what are you noticing about those leaders
that are ready?
What does it look like if I'minto the role and the pandemic
happens or some crisis happens?
What are some of thecharacteristics that show up
that say that I'm ready to beadaptable and prepared to take
that on?
If leadership hasn't changed,the world has changed.
What are some skill sets I needto bring to the table to be
(03:26):
ready for that?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
So in times of great change, leaders need to be
visible, they need to be talkingto their people, they need to
be sharing the vision for thefuture.
You know what does this newworld look like.
They need to be ready for allthe individuals going through
their own kind of change curve,the kind of denial you know the
(03:47):
immobilization, denial,frustration, acceptance, testing
out, completion and people gothrough that at different rates.
So leaders have to be ready,absolutely on it and in it to
bring their people throughreally quickly.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, I love it.
Can you speak?
Can you unpack for a littlewhile?
When you said on it and in it.
Can you unpack that?
Because I actually like thatfor, like man, okay, I never
kind of used that language, butthey need to be on their game
and they need to be in the game.
Like, what is that?
Can you unpack that?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes, I guess when I said that I have.
You know, I've worked inorganizations where leaders
perhaps are responsible for thechange going on in the
organization and they kind ofcommunicate the change and then
they disappear.
You can't do that.
Leaders have to be visible withstaff to explain, to understand
(04:43):
that it might be uncomfortablefor some people to understand
that some people are going toget it really quickly and want
to move on really quickly andothers will take a little bit
more time.
So you can't do that if you'restill sitting on your high horse
in your office thinking, oh,I've done that change thing, now
Off they go because they won't.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, I love it because that's the reality.
You know, the thing I loveabout this podcast is we talk
about, like, practical things.
That's real.
So if you're talking to theleader that that has worked hard
to get promoted to whateverlevel, what I hear you saying is
that's, that's not it, becauseyou've got promoted, now you've
got to have visibility.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
People got to see you molded.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
now you got to have visibility.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
People got to see you , yeah, yeah.
And visibility of personalstyle.
You know, having an authenticpersonal style doesn't matter
who you are, as long as it'sauthentic, consistent, visible
is really important for peoplebecause they can follow a leader
that's visible and theyunderstand.
For people, because they canfollow a leader that's visible
(05:47):
and they understand.
So visibility of style isfundamental to everything we do.
Sorry, I forgot the rest of thequestion, Ron.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
No, I mean, I love that you're unpacking it,
because so what do you tell theleader that says you know, when
you think of Ali, what do youtell the leader that's
introverted, that's kind ofhands-off, that likes to empower
, and empower is a great thing,but they're becoming not as
connected because they want tobe so hands-off or they're just
introverted?
How do you help that leader getout of that space of their
(06:15):
comfort zone of wanting to stayvery secluded?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So if you want to be a leader of people, you don't
have the luxury of staying inthat introverted space.
I am a raving introvert, butwhen I'm leading others I do not
have that luxury.
I have to put myself out there.
Most leaders are imposedbecause of their skill or their
specialism, theirentrepreneurial flair or they've
(06:40):
been around the longest, notbecause they're skilled at
leading and developing people.
So once they learn the process,the mindset, we've got a
beautiful psychometric toolcalled.
Am I allowed to say what it'scalled?
Absolutely yeah, for a momentyes, insights Discovery, which
is available all over the worldand it's about 96% accurate,
(07:04):
which makes it brilliant, it'svery memorable.
It's based on color and I sayto leaders it doesn't matter
whether you're red, yellow,green or blue, which are the
colors.
You have to be able to use allfour colors and step into those
at the right time for eachindividual in your team.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Wow, yeah, absolutely promoted, because what we do
offer here is resources andhopefully someone will say I
need to hear more from her aboutthat tool.
So I tell people come on theshow and I want to promote the
business on your products.
If it's going to help thepeople that we serve, I want you
to be of help to them and Iwant to be of help to you so you
can promote it.
So when you think about thework that you're doing, what are
(07:43):
you seeing are the biggestchallenges?
Because it's changing fast.
I mean, the world is reallychanging every second of the day
.
What are you seeing are thebiggest challenges in the next
year?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
for leaders that are coming into these changes
constantly.
Leaders, well, because they'rein post because of their skill
or specialism, they haven'tlearned the skill of leadership.
So if they want to get throughthe changes really fast, they're
going to have to learn reallyfast how to be a great leader of
people.
There is no shortcut.
You've got to do the work.
So what we found in all of ourresearch about leaders is that
(08:19):
the highest performing leadersof people it doesn't matter
where they are in the world,what industry they're in the
highest performing leaders ofpeople have the same innate
mindset.
They have the same process andthey have the same set of skills
and a beautiful ability to surfthe waves of change well.
(08:41):
So if you learn the mindset,the process, the skills, you
will automatically lead peoplethrough the change.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Wow, okay, ola.
So you know I have to askbecause people are asking well,
what is that mindset Like?
What's that secret recipe?
Because if I have it but Idon't know what that habit is.
So I kind of got to you know, Idon't want to tease them too
much what is that?
What's that leadership mindset?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So there is nothing new about anything I talk about
Honestly.
It's been out there for years.
We've put it into a process.
So we start with the mindset.
So this magic ingredient is theconcept of high challenge and
high support.
Because when you think of highchallenge and high support, you
(09:24):
know, if you think of anorganization where there's a lot
of support and very lowchallenge, war kind of goes on
there, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Chaos.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, people coast, don't they?
They're never pushed to be thebest they can be.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, you kind of get settled and complacent.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah.
And if it's the opposite, ifit's very high challenge and
very low support, where are yourpeople now?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think they're feeling like they don't
, almost, like they're insecure,they're not safe or it's hard
to take a risk.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
It is, or some of them will, but it's stressful.
It leads to burnout and highstaff turnover Because actually
these leaders are only focusedon bottom line performance.
People don't matter, you'rehere to do a job.
If there's low challenge, lowsupport, it's a really unhealthy
place and many organizationsgoing through massive change
(10:20):
find themselves there.
It's unhealthy because there'sno, there's no vision, there's
no purpose, there's no, nothing.
Yes, so we're looking for thissweet spot of high challenge and
high support in powerful andequal combination.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Then you get commitment, high achievement and
development from your peopleyes, I love it so, so I know
they'll be like okay, Ron, soyou have to listen to the
recording.
She's dropping it all out.
The good thing about it is youcan go back and listen to the
answers that she's sharing.
So when you think about yourrole and you've gone into an
organization, what are thethings that you tell new leaders
(10:58):
?
So the mindset is important.
Understanding how to set thetempo in an organization is
important.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
How do you?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
help leaders deal with conflict or confrontation.
A lot of leaders that know inour space struggle.
I mean they avoid conflict orjust don't like it, and it's
becoming very difficult to lead.
If you don't do thateffectively, how do you help
leaders?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
get through that, absolutely.
It's all part of the process.
So, after the mindset, you haveto then set the ground rules
Now the ground rules for theleader.
The have to then set the groundrules Now the ground rules for
the leader, the rights and theresponsibilities of a leader is
that I promise that I am goingto give you feedback every day
on how you're doing the good,the bad and the ugly.
(11:38):
I am going to share my vision sothat you can decide.
If you want to come with me,I'm going to share how we treat
each other, how I expect wetreat each other.
These are the key rules, andyou, as a team member, have
rights and responsibilities.
One is to not follow my visionif you can't agree with it, but
(12:00):
go elsewhere and follow your ownvision, and you have a right to
treat me with courtesy as muchas I treat you with courtesy and
a responsibility to do that aswell.
So we share these very clearly.
So feedback as a way of lifebecomes important.
So you can have those difficultconversations, because I'm
(12:24):
going to tell you, team member,if you're going off track.
I'm going to tell you if you'redoing it right.
I'm going to tell you if you'redoing it downright wrong,
because I want you to succeed.
I want you to grow with me.
Do you want to do that?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
And usually when you talk to people like that, of
course they want you to tellthem they want to do a good job
for you.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes, yes.
So I love that you're saying it, because oftentimes people
think they have to be meanspirited when they're giving
feedback.
And you don't have to be a meanperson or you don't have to be
harsh, I mean, I think feedbackis necessary for people to grow.
So how do you get leaders topass this thing that they have
to be mean or they have to beloud or they have to be harsh,
because I don't.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
It doesn't work for me.
No, it doesn't work for anybody.
It doesn't work for anybody.
So part of the underpinningkind of principles for high
challenge, high support arepositive regard and genuineness.
Now, if every leader on theplanet was to treat their people
(13:27):
with positive regard andgenuineness, there would be no
more wars in the world.
Wow.
So most leaders are more skewedto one than the other.
So, if I can use an example ofmy husband and myself, I'm
really good at positive regard.
I, you know I love people.
I, you know, I see the good inpeople, no matter what they're
(13:49):
doing.
I have to really focus on beinggenuine and giving people frank
, honest feedback about theirbehavior.
When I see it, my husband, whois opposite, really good at
genuineness.
You generally see on his faceif he doesn't like your behavior
right now.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And he doesn't mind.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
He doesn't mind telling you, so he has to focus
on positive regard, because hereally doesn't like people.
So you know, if you're a leaderof people, you have to honor
and respect people.
You have to.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Otherwise go and be a specialist somewhere else.
Yes, love that you're saying it.
I mean, if you're a leader andand usually you gotta you gotta
like people, I mean you know yougotta figure out a way and if
you don't like them, you need toget out of that role because
it's gonna be bad for everybodyit's amazing that you bring this
up, because I talk about it allthe time and people don't like
to put it together, but you kindof, if you're in a leadership
(14:51):
role, you've got to find a wayto love people.
You do, and if you don't want to, because what's in your heart
will show up.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yes, and what I find is even leaders who are
reluctant or accidental leaders,as a lot of them are, once they
know and they think, actually Ican now see the process to
getting there it actuallyliberates them.
Our program is called theLiberator because it liberates
them and it liberates theirpeople.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So, ali you spoke about, you're very positive and
you have to work really hard ongiving people honest feedback.
You know which is worthy, sothere are a ton of people that
fall into that category as well.
What are the steps you've takento ensure that you do that
effectively?
Because you know you want to.
You see the good in everybody,but you've got to get some
feedback that they need to hearand it may not be the greatest
(15:42):
thing that you want to have todeliver.
What have you done to get to beable to do that more
effectively?
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I think it's holding people in the highest positive
regard and being very genuinewith them.
So I've had to make peopleredundant in the past.
That's not a nice job.
Nobody wants to have to do that.
But generally when I finishthose there conversations the
people shake my hand and saythank you so much, ali.
I totally understand and you'vedone it so beautifully, because
(16:11):
I'm not rubbishing them as aperson.
I'm trying to support them andencourage them.
Encourage them onto their nextplace.
You know it doesn't have to behorrible.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, I love that and it doesn't I mean.
So if you're listening andyou're watching us like it
doesn't have to be horrible andeven with a horrible situation,
you can still be a really goodleader in this situation, you
know.
So I love that.
You put it out.
How do you show up?
And I tell people yourcharacter will show up.
You know, if you're, if youmean and you want to pretend
that you're nice when thepressure is on, you're going to
be mean, because that's that'swhat you've kind of decided as
(16:44):
your character.
What you've kind of decided asyour character.
How do you help organizations?
One of the things that's achallenge across all
organizations and industry isthis thing called trust.
It's not an all-time low.
Yeah, what do you help leadersdo?
That's struggling with buildingtrust with their team or
trusting their team.
Either way, both need to beaddressed.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
They do need to be addressed, and that is
developing the mindset, puttingthe ground rules in place.
If I use an analogy, if youimagine taking your team to the
top of a skyscraper, the tallestskyscraper you can think of,
it's got a flat roof, it's dark.
You take them right to the top,you take them out onto the roof
(17:26):
.
It's dark.
You take them right to the top,you take them out onto the roof
.
It's dark and they've gotroller skates on and the roof is
flat.
There's no edge, you know,apart from the drop off.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
They've got roller skates and you say to them skate
.
What are they going to do?
Probably not going to skate.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
They're going to stand still like, no, I'm not
doing this.
I'm not doing this Exactly.
So now, if you illuminate theroof with your vision, which is
so bright it lights up the wholeroof and you put railings
around the edge and say this isthe area we're working in, this
(18:10):
is where we're going, then theteam will skate and use all the
space and do amazing twirls thatyou never knew they could do on
their roller skates, becausethey they feel safe, they feel
they know the boundaries, theyknow where they're going.
So that creates trust.
It creates psychological safetyfor your people.
You've got to put theboundaries in place.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, how much I love that you put that, because
you're absolutely right.
I mean the illumination ofhere's where we're going, so
people can see it, and then youput parameters around here's
what within the context thatwe're working in.
What role does effectivecommunication play in that,
though?
I mean, oftentimes, you know,there's a big gap between what I
said and what they heard.
(18:52):
How do you help people closethat gap?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Part of that is using the insights discovery tool,
because that helps you to adaptand connect with different types
of people.
So some people want it inwriting, some people want it
with bells and whistles people.
So some people want it inwriting, some people want it
with bells and whistles, somepeople want it in pictures, some
people want it audio, somepeople want it visually.
(19:16):
So you have to use every styleof communication to communicate
with your people and you needthem to say it back to you to
know if they've understood.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Wow.
So what I'm hearing from you,ali, is as a leader.
It feels like if'm, if I'mlistening to you, like I'm doing
all the work as a leader toconnect with my people.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
In the beginning.
This is all the grumpymanagement work to set the scene
, to set the you know, to setthe parameters for the way we're
going to work.
And then, little by little,team member by team member,
their internal motivation willkick in.
And once that happens, you canflex your style and now it's
(19:54):
much more partnership, it's morecoaching, and then you've got
to let them go.
It's, you know, the enabledstage, as we call it.
You empower them, you transformthem.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yes, yes, I love it.
Which was the question thatcame up as you were walking
through the stages.
So you know you did one of thestages.
What are the stages?
You know?
Like you said, when you firstcome on, you're going to do a
lot of heavy lifting at thebeginning.
What?
are the stages of that you knowfor leaders, you know.
So you know you talk about theenabling stage.
What are the stages for leaders?
You know, so they can noticewhat stage they're in and what
(20:25):
they should or should not bedoing in those stages.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Absolutely so.
This is the process we defined.
Now, lots and lots ofmanagement gurus out there over
time have identified a four,four step leadership process.
It's called all differentthings, yes, and every process
is good, but most leaders arerubbish at working the process.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
They get stuck in that their four-step process in
their own style of leadership,their own preferred way of
working.
So the first stage is always wecall it visioning, mobilizing,
developing, enabling.
So visioning and mobilizingtake a lot of your time.
This is setting the rules,setting your visibility of style
(21:13):
, seeing what's going on, makingyour analysis, setting your
vision.
Then you go about throughexplicitness leaders aren't
normally explicit enough throughbeing assertive, appropriately
assertive.
This is where we're going andthis is how I want it done.
We nip performance issues inthe bud, we give feedback every
(21:37):
day and we maintain momentum.
So that takes time to put allthat stuff in place.
Once you do, we call that thetransactional stage.
And then the transformationalstage developing.
Once their internal motivationkicks in, we can now take
(21:57):
account of the individual'smotivation.
Right, how do we keep themmotivated?
How do we keep them on track?
We adapt our leadership styleaccordingly.
We don't need to be as explicitor give as much challenging
feedback or if the challenge iswhere next from the good you're
at, to even better.
So it's a different quality ofleadership and doesn't take as
(22:21):
much effort because they'resuper motivated to do it.
And then the enabled stage welet them go and we have to get
out of their way.
You should do yourself out of ajob and either they will stay
or they'll leave and go onsomewhere bigger and better.
And you have to have thegenerosity to allow them to go.
(22:42):
If there's nowhere for themhere, but at that enabled stage,
with your team, all you have todo is provide continued support
.
You empower them, you delegate,which is an act and also a
mindset delegation, and thenyou're just saying well done,
I've got a fully enabled teamaround me, all self-employed.
(23:04):
But I constantly say I love theway you crafted that email.
That was brilliant, the way youresponded to that.
So they know I can see them,I've got them.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yes, I love that, the fact that they know you can see
them and I think sometimes wedon't share enough of those
kinds of compliments.
So people know that you can seethem, which is important.
People want to be seen, theywant to be seen, they want to be
appreciated, they want to bevalued, and the best way is to
give some kind of feedback thatlets them know that you do see
them.
And so, leaders, if you'relistening, what are your ways
(23:37):
that you're doing every singleday, every single week?
Letting your team know you seethem and you appreciate them and
value them.
And it doesn't have to be long,it can be just a short thank
you.
Hey, I noticed you did this.
I really appreciate that.
You crafted the email that way.
Great job, and that's enough.
I think we make it moredifficult than it needs to be
sometimes as leaders, to letpeople know exactly what you
just said.
I see you, I hear you, Iappreciate you.
(23:58):
So, when you think aboutleaders first coming in, what if
you're talking to the newleader that's coming in?
Are there any particular thingsthat that they should focus on?
So, people that listen to andwatch the show, they always say,
well, that's my firstleadership role when do I start?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
So you start with who am I, what kind of leader am I,
what kind of leader do I wantto be?
And I now make it visible andconsistent.
As we've said, I now go andtalk to all of my people so that
I know who they are, Iunderstand their concerns, I
(24:34):
understand what they're doing.
I make my analysis of wherethey are and what they're doing
in terms of what I need toachieve now as the new leader of
this team and what you know.
What's the vision of theorganization and what is my
vision for this team here, andhow do they fit together?
So the leader has to do a lotof work.
(24:57):
One of the best um, can I talkabout a film, one of the best
films where you can see this sovisibly is an old film Coach
Carter.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
With Samuel L Jackson , because he does it in a very
extroverted way, but it's veryvisible.
He watches the team first ofall.
He just watches them.
He watches how the teaminteract, he watches what goes
on.
He watches a game before heeven agrees to take the job on,
(25:34):
so he gets to know the team.
So that would be the place tostart.
You can't do anything unlessyou know your team.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, I love that.
You said you know Ali is.
I get to know who they are andoftentimes, as leaders, we're so
busy trying to make sure theyknow who we are because we're
the leader.
You know we want to come in andlet me tell you my vision and
you really haven't said hey, Iwant to get to know you before I
put anything out, and I lovethat you also share that.
You know, as a leader, once youget to that enabling stage, all
(26:03):
you have to do is providesupport and it's almost like
owning a home.
Once it's built, everything'sin place.
If you continue to providesupport, that home will stand
for years.
But if you don't do the minorrepairs and you don't do the
cleanup and you don't do thethings that you need to do that
require service in that home,you'll find yourself with a home
that's not going to stand verylong.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yes, the foundations won't be there.
It'll crumble.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It won't be there, it'll crumble.
It won't be there.
It'll crumble on you over time.
So I would say, building a teamis just like that Do the hard
work up front and make sure thefoundation is solid and the
structure that it's standing onis solid.
Then you can do the littlethings later on.
But it's going to take work toclear the land and to pour the
foundation and make sure it'slevel.
(26:46):
All that does take time, but ifyou don't do it right, you will
have more problems later onbecause it's just not gonna
stand very long.
So we've talked about a lothere.
Ali, when you think about your20 years in the industry, in the
space, what do you think hasbeen some of the most measurable
changes you've seen happen thatleaders are starting to do
(27:06):
better at?
What do you notice over theyears?
You know, because it haschanged from when my
grandparents were leaders.
You know I watch my mother, myfather.
As entrepreneurs, we lose and Iwatch.
Now is my time and I'm in thatspace.
The way that they did thingsgave me a good platform, but I
had to change some of the thingsthat they've done or were doing
.
What are you noticing aboutleadership that leaders are
starting to embrace and changeto be more effective.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yes, certainly.
We've seen a huge shift fromthe kind of command and control
type leadership to much moreembracing leadership, servant
leadership and all that kind ofthing.
So it's constantly adapting tothe time you're in, whatever
time that is constantly.
I mean, the greatest leaders inthe world are constantly
changing.
You know, Madonna wouldn't beso amazing if she hadn't kept
(28:00):
reinventing herself.
Leaders are having to do thesame.
You can't do what you've alwaysdone.
Or, as Marshall Goldsmith wouldsay, what got you here?
won't get you there, so it'sbeing alert to what is going on.
You have to be reading, youhave to be listening to, you
know TED Talks and watching TEDTalks and podcasts and you have
to be absolutely on your game asa leader.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I love it.
Two questions for us.
We don't get time for us.
Game as a leader.
I love it.
Two questions for us.
We don't get time for us.
The first question is you saidsomething that's important
constantly being in class.
How important is that forleaders to constantly be
learning To constantly belearning, to continue reading,
to be in podcasts, to take acourse.
How important is it for leadersto constantly be a learner?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
It's hugely important .
Yes, you can't do this unlessyou're willing to learn, because
you're expecting your employeesto constantly learn.
So you can't do.
You can't expect that if youcan't do it yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Wow, which is amazing .
Thank you for sharing theresponse to that.
The other question what?
How valuable for you?
Valuable for you if you've hada mentor?
What role did it play in whoyou are today, and how valuable
is it for the people to seek outa mentor?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I would not be here today if I hadn't had the most
amazing mentor.
So it is super important andI've had experience of a great
mentor from.
I desperately needed a job in1990, like you do, a long time
ago.
I'm really old and the chap Imet at that time was a chartered
(29:42):
occupational psychologist, 20years older than me a bit more
than 20 years older than me andhe has been my guide and mentor
all these years.
He's now in his late 80s and hestill will phone me up and say,
ali, I've been thinking Superimportant.
(30:03):
But it's also important forleaders to pay that back.
So I am now mentoring a youngentrepreneur or two in Mauritius
to be able to help them growtheir businesses.
So it's really important tohave somebody who's a few years
older, a few years possiblywiser, to just share what they
(30:25):
know.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, I love that you said hey, I wouldn't be here if
it wasn't for that individualthat poured into me.
You know, more than I probablycould have ever.
You know, done for myself.
But also to give back, and Ithink that's the thing of
leaders, you know, being able toreach back versus hey, I have
mine.
You have to figure it out and Ihear that quite often where
people just leave people up totheir own devices.
Versus, hey, what can you do togive back to someone that's a
(30:48):
couple of years behind you, thatyou know where you started,
they're currently there andyou've learned some lessons.
So if you listen to this podcastone find a mentor, someone
that's ahead of you, and youenvision yourself being like
them, but then be a mentor, playboth ends of that, and you do
have the time.
It's important for us to dothat.
Is there anything that you'llshare, ali, that I really
(31:11):
haven't asked about?
I mean, you gave some greatresponses to the questions.
You share some great practicesand some processes.
Is there anything that wehaven't touched on that you want
to share that you feel is veryvaluable for our listeners?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
touched on that you want to share, that you feel is
very valuable for our listeners,possibly the one thing.
When I take coaches andtrainers, when I take leaders
through the Liberator program,the key skill of explicitness,
time and again, is the thingthey remember.
Mostly it's just a little shortbit in the book, but it's the
most powerful, because leadersoften aren't explicit enough.
(31:45):
They'll say something like useyour initiative or be passionate
.
What am I doing when I'mpassionate?
What am I doing?
You've got to be a betterstrategic thinker.
What does that look like whenI'm being a strategic thinker?
So leaders have to sayexplicitly and by this I mean
(32:10):
and these are the actions I needto see so that I know you're
doing it so to, and also ingiving feedback, which is part
of explicitness, make itconditional, which is part of
explicitness.
Make it conditional.
So don't just say that was agreat presentation.
Tell the person what you lovedabout the presentation, because
(32:31):
if you said that to me, I mightthink you might.
You know, was it the way Ipresented?
Was it my slides?
Was it my presence?
You know what was it about mypresentation, which was great.
You know what was it about mypresentation, which was great,
so make it conditional.
It was great because this iswhat I noticed, or it wasn't so
great because this is what Inoticed, and next time, if you
(32:54):
try this, it would make itsuperb.
Wow.
So you can give positiveconditional and negative
conditional just as effectivelyyes, yes, I, yes, I love the
word you know use effectively.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
If it works, great.
But if it's not working, I wantyou to know that as well.
So I don't normally use theword bad or good.
I say effective or ineffectiveis the language I use.
I mean, you've been phenomenalon answering the questions.
How do people reach out to you?
First, you know you have aphenomenal tool that you use and
help people figure out how tobe more effective as a leader.
How do people, where do peoplefind you?
(33:29):
How do they reach out to you?
If they want to, you know,bring you onto a podcast and
find out more about yourorganization or your tool.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Thank you so much, ron.
Well, everything with me is AliStewart and Co, so
wwwalistewartandcocom, linkedin,allie Stewart Co.
If it's Twitter Allie StewartCo, instagram, allie Stewart Co,
so they'll find me.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yes, yes, consistent.
So hopefully everyone haslistened to this.
She made it really easy.
With everything that she has,there's one brand, and so you
want to be the same way as whatAllie just did is what's your
brand?
How do people find you, how dopeople locate you?
She's visible, and there's onething that you can use to find
her, no matter what platform youare.
So if you're listening, you'repaying attention, you want to
(34:13):
reach out to her.
I love what you shared with ustoday.
I mean your passion you canfeel it in your, in your heart
and your conversation is thatyou're you're designed to do
this and you care a lot aboutdoing it.
You're designed to do this andyou care a lot about doing it.
And for everyone else that'slistening, hopefully we share
something in the time that wespent with you that made a
difference for how you show upas a leader.
That made a difference for howyou take care of the people that
are really counting on you, andyou figured out a way to find
(34:40):
out more about mentoring orfinding out your style of
communication or your style ofleading, and, more importantly,
that you find out that it takesa foundation and then you can
build from there.
So for all you just listen.
Thank you for joining, ali, andI know another episode of
Unpacked with Ron Harvey anduntil next time we wish you the
best.
We hope everything goes welland we hope that you reach out
to us and connect with us ifthere's anything we can do for
you, either one of us.
We're in this together acrossthe universe, so please reach
(35:02):
out to us if we can ever helpyou be a more effective leader.
Until next time, ali and I aresigning off.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron unpacks sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
(35:31):
matter.
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host
leadership consultant, ronHarvey of GlobalCore Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good morning.
This is Ron Harvey.
I'm the vice president and theChief Operating Officer of
Global Core Strategies andConsulting, which is a
professional leadershipdevelopment firm based out of
Columbia, south Carolina.
We love helping leaders bebetter connected to their
workforce, which actually getseverything done in organizations
.
So leadership is valuable andwe spend a lot of time figuring
it out, understanding thenuances of it so we can help our
(00:43):
leaders grow and take care oftheir people.
Understanding the nuances of itso we can help our leaders grow
and take care of their people.
But what we do on thisparticular show, every single
week we release a differentepisode of Unpacked with Ron
Harvey, and the goal of that istwo things One, to showcase the
talent that's across our globeso not just where I live, but
across the entire globe of allthe professionals that we bring
on the show.
The second part is to give yousomething that's very helpful
(01:03):
for you in your role and yourposition as a leader.
So hopefully you'll enjoy thissession as we get ready to
invite our guests onto theplatform and talk more about
leadership, unpacking it andsome things that I will learn as
well.
So always learn something fromevery guest.
So I'm going to pause and I'mgoing to invite Ali on and she's
going to introduce herself andtell you who she is and what she
(01:24):
does, or whatever she choosesto do.
Quite honestly, it's unpacked.
We don't know what's going tohappen, except for we're going
to talk leadership.
So, ali, let me let youintroduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Thank you so much, ron, and it's lovely to be here
with you.
I am Ali Stewart.
We are your, like, yourtransformational learning and
development expert.
We go into companies.
We can sort out all thetraining and development needs
for individuals, for teams, forleaders, for organizations, from
(01:56):
kind of recruitment to exit.
So we help leaders to lead withstrength, dignity and
compassion.
We help individuals to get outof their own way and shine and
we use a beautiful tool for, asthe general language for
communication, that kind ofpsychometric tool.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yes, I love it.
She's speaking, so you'respeaking my language and
probably everybody else iswatching.
You know this transformationalthing that's happening
constantly, so thank you forsharing the information that who
you are, what you do.
So when you think of it'sevolved.
You've been in business over 20years.
We were talking in the greenroom before we got started and
you've been in long we've beenin business.
How much has leadership evolvedover 20 years, based on your
(02:40):
experience?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I think the world has evolved, yes, and leaders have
to step up to every challenge,but actually the fundamental
skill of leadership hasn'treally changed very much.
We just have to be ready foreach and every challenge,
whatever you know like pandemic,like financial crash, ai,
(03:02):
anything that comes along.
Leaders have to be ready.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, what are you noticing about those leaders
that are ready?
What does it look like if I'minto the role and the pandemic
happens or some crisis happens?
What are some of thecharacteristics that show up
that say that I'm ready to beadaptable and prepared to take
that on?
If leadership hasn't changed,the world has changed.
What are some skill sets I needto bring to the table to be
(03:26):
ready for that?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
So in times of great change, leaders need to be
visible, they need to be talkingto their people, they need to
be sharing the vision for thefuture.
You know what does this newworld look like.
They need to be ready for allthe individuals going through
their own kind of change curve,the kind of denial you know the
(03:47):
immobilization, denial,frustration, acceptance, testing
out, completion and people gothrough that at different rates.
So leaders have to be ready,absolutely on it and in it to
bring their people throughreally quickly.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, I love it.
Can you speak?
Can you unpack for a littlewhile?
When you said on it and in it.
Can you unpack that?
Because I actually like thatfor, like man, okay, I never
kind of used that language, butthey need to be on their game
and they need to be in the game.
Like, what is that?
Can you unpack that?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes, I guess when I said that I have.
You know, I've worked inorganizations where leaders
perhaps are responsible for thechange going on in the
organization and they kind ofcommunicate the change and then
they disappear.
You can't do that.
Leaders have to be visible withstaff to explain, to understand
(04:43):
that it might be uncomfortablefor some people to understand
that some people are going toget it really quickly and want
to move on really quickly andothers will take a little bit
more time.
So you can't do that if you'restill sitting on your high horse
in your office thinking, oh,I've done that change thing, now
Off they go because they won't.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, I love it because that's the reality.
You know, the thing I loveabout this podcast is we talk
about, like, practical things.
That's real.
So if you're talking to theleader that that has worked hard
to get promoted to whateverlevel, what I hear you saying is
that's, that's not it, becauseyou've got promoted, now you've
got to have visibility.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
People got to see you molded.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
now you got to have visibility.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
People got to see you , yeah, yeah.
And visibility of personalstyle.
You know, having an authenticpersonal style doesn't matter
who you are, as long as it'sauthentic, consistent, visible
is really important for peoplebecause they can follow a leader
that's visible and theyunderstand.
For people, because they canfollow a leader that's visible
(05:47):
and they understand.
So visibility of style isfundamental to everything we do.
Sorry, I forgot the rest of thequestion, Ron.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
No, I mean, I love that you're unpacking it,
because so what do you tell theleader that says you know, when
you think of Ali, what do youtell the leader that's
introverted, that's kind ofhands-off, that likes to empower
, and empower is a great thing,but they're becoming not as
connected because they want tobe so hands-off or they're just
introverted?
How do you help that leader getout of that space of their
(06:15):
comfort zone of wanting to stayvery secluded?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So if you want to be a leader of people, you don't
have the luxury of staying inthat introverted space.
I am a raving introvert, butwhen I'm leading others I do not
have that luxury.
I have to put myself out there.
Most leaders are imposedbecause of their skill or their
specialism, theirentrepreneurial flair or they've
(06:40):
been around the longest, notbecause they're skilled at
leading and developing people.
So once they learn the process,the mindset, we've got a
beautiful psychometric toolcalled.
Am I allowed to say what it'scalled?
Absolutely yeah, for a momentyes, insights Discovery, which
is available all over the worldand it's about 96% accurate,
(07:04):
which makes it brilliant, it'svery memorable.
It's based on color and I sayto leaders it doesn't matter
whether you're red, yellow,green or blue, which are the
colors.
You have to be able to use allfour colors and step into those
at the right time for eachindividual in your team.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Wow, yeah, absolutely promoted, because what we do
offer here is resources andhopefully someone will say I
need to hear more from her aboutthat tool.
So I tell people come on theshow and I want to promote the
business on your products.
If it's going to help thepeople that we serve, I want you
to be of help to them and Iwant to be of help to you so you
can promote it.
So when you think about thework that you're doing, what are
(07:43):
you seeing are the biggestchallenges?
Because it's changing fast.
I mean, the world is reallychanging every second of the day
.
What are you seeing are thebiggest challenges in the next
year?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
for leaders that are coming into these changes
constantly.
Leaders, well, because they'rein post because of their skill
or specialism, they haven'tlearned the skill of leadership.
So if they want to get throughthe changes really fast, they're
going to have to learn reallyfast how to be a great leader of
people.
There is no shortcut.
You've got to do the work.
So what we found in all of ourresearch about leaders is that
(08:19):
the highest performing leadersof people it doesn't matter
where they are in the world,what industry they're in the
highest performing leaders ofpeople have the same innate
mindset.
They have the same process andthey have the same set of skills
and a beautiful ability to surfthe waves of change well.
(08:41):
So if you learn the mindset,the process, the skills, you
will automatically lead peoplethrough the change.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Wow, okay, ola.
So you know I have to askbecause people are asking well,
what is that mindset Like?
What's that secret recipe?
Because if I have it but Idon't know what that habit is.
So I kind of got to you know, Idon't want to tease them too
much what is that?
What's that leadership mindset?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So there is nothing new about anything I talk about
Honestly.
It's been out there for years.
We've put it into a process.
So we start with the mindset.
So this magic ingredient is theconcept of high challenge and
high support.
Because when you think of highchallenge and high support, you
(09:24):
know, if you think of anorganization where there's a lot
of support and very lowchallenge, war kind of goes on
there, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Chaos.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, people coast, don't they?
They're never pushed to be thebest they can be.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, you kind of get settled and complacent.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah.
And if it's the opposite, ifit's very high challenge and
very low support, where are yourpeople now?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think they're feeling like they don't
, almost, like they're insecure,they're not safe or it's hard
to take a risk.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
It is, or some of them will, but it's stressful.
It leads to burnout and highstaff turnover Because actually
these leaders are only focusedon bottom line performance.
People don't matter, you'rehere to do a job.
If there's low challenge, lowsupport, it's a really unhealthy
place and many organizationsgoing through massive change
(10:20):
find themselves there.
It's unhealthy because there'sno, there's no vision, there's
no purpose, there's no, nothing.
Yes, so we're looking for thissweet spot of high challenge and
high support in powerful andequal combination.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Then you get commitment, high achievement and
development from your peopleyes, I love it so, so I know
they'll be like okay, Ron, soyou have to listen to the
recording.
She's dropping it all out.
The good thing about it is youcan go back and listen to the
answers that she's sharing.
So when you think about yourrole and you've gone into an
organization, what are thethings that you tell new leaders
(10:58):
?
So the mindset is important.
Understanding how to set thetempo in an organization is
important.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
How do you?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
help leaders deal with conflict or confrontation.
A lot of leaders that know inour space struggle.
I mean they avoid conflict orjust don't like it, and it's
becoming very difficult to lead.
If you don't do thateffectively, how do you help
leaders?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
get through that, absolutely.
It's all part of the process.
So, after the mindset, you haveto then set the ground rules
Now the ground rules for theleader.
The have to then set the groundrules Now the ground rules for
the leader, the rights and theresponsibilities of a leader is
that I promise that I am goingto give you feedback every day
on how you're doing the good,the bad and the ugly.
(11:38):
I am going to share my vision sothat you can decide.
If you want to come with me,I'm going to share how we treat
each other, how I expect wetreat each other.
These are the key rules, andyou, as a team member, have
rights and responsibilities.
One is to not follow my visionif you can't agree with it, but
(12:00):
go elsewhere and follow your ownvision, and you have a right to
treat me with courtesy as muchas I treat you with courtesy and
a responsibility to do that aswell.
So we share these very clearly.
So feedback as a way of lifebecomes important.
So you can have those difficultconversations, because I'm
(12:24):
going to tell you, team member,if you're going off track.
I'm going to tell you if you'redoing it right.
I'm going to tell you if you'redoing it downright wrong,
because I want you to succeed.
I want you to grow with me.
Do you want to do that?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
And usually when you talk to people like that, of
course they want you to tellthem they want to do a good job
for you.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes, yes.
So I love that you're saying it, because oftentimes people
think they have to be meanspirited when they're giving
feedback.
And you don't have to be a meanperson or you don't have to be
harsh, I mean, I think feedbackis necessary for people to grow.
So how do you get leaders topass this thing that they have
to be mean or they have to beloud or they have to be harsh,
because I don't.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
It doesn't work for me.
No, it doesn't work for anybody.
It doesn't work for anybody.
So part of the underpinningkind of principles for high
challenge, high support arepositive regard and genuineness.
Now, if every leader on theplanet was to treat their people
(13:27):
with positive regard andgenuineness, there would be no
more wars in the world.
Wow.
So most leaders are more skewedto one than the other.
So, if I can use an example ofmy husband and myself, I'm
really good at positive regard.
I, you know I love people.
I, you know, I see the good inpeople, no matter what they're
(13:49):
doing.
I have to really focus on beinggenuine and giving people frank
, honest feedback about theirbehavior.
When I see it, my husband, whois opposite, really good at
genuineness.
You generally see on his faceif he doesn't like your behavior
right now.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And he doesn't mind.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
He doesn't mind telling you, so he has to focus
on positive regard, because hereally doesn't like people.
So you know, if you're a leaderof people, you have to honor
and respect people.
You have to.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Otherwise go and be a specialist somewhere else.
Yes, love that you're saying it.
I mean, if you're a leader andand usually you gotta you gotta
like people, I mean you know yougotta figure out a way and if
you don't like them, you need toget out of that role because
it's gonna be bad for everybodyit's amazing that you bring this
up, because I talk about it allthe time and people don't like
to put it together, but you kindof, if you're in a leadership
(14:51):
role, you've got to find a wayto love people.
You do, and if you don't want to, because what's in your heart
will show up.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yes, and what I find is even leaders who are
reluctant or accidental leaders,as a lot of them are, once they
know and they think, actually Ican now see the process to
getting there it actuallyliberates them.
Our program is called theLiberator because it liberates
them and it liberates theirpeople.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So, ali you spoke about, you're very positive and
you have to work really hard ongiving people honest feedback.
You know which is worthy, sothere are a ton of people that
fall into that category as well.
What are the steps you've takento ensure that you do that
effectively?
Because you know you want to.
You see the good in everybody,but you've got to get some
feedback that they need to hearand it may not be the greatest
(15:42):
thing that you want to have todeliver.
What have you done to get to beable to do that more
effectively?
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I think it's holding people in the highest positive
regard and being very genuinewith them.
So I've had to make peopleredundant in the past.
That's not a nice job.
Nobody wants to have to do that.
But generally when I finishthose there conversations the
people shake my hand and saythank you so much, ali.
I totally understand and you'vedone it so beautifully, because
(16:11):
I'm not rubbishing them as aperson.
I'm trying to support them andencourage them.
Encourage them onto their nextplace.
You know it doesn't have to behorrible.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, I love that and it doesn't I mean.
So if you're listening andyou're watching us like it
doesn't have to be horrible andeven with a horrible situation,
you can still be a really goodleader in this situation, you
know.
So I love that.
You put it out.
How do you show up?
And I tell people yourcharacter will show up.
You know, if you're, if youmean and you want to pretend
that you're nice when thepressure is on, you're going to
be mean, because that's that'swhat you've kind of decided as
(16:44):
your character.
What you've kind of decided asyour character.
How do you help organizations?
One of the things that's achallenge across all
organizations and industry isthis thing called trust.
It's not an all-time low.
Yeah, what do you help leadersdo?
That's struggling with buildingtrust with their team or
trusting their team.
Either way, both need to beaddressed.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
They do need to be addressed, and that is
developing the mindset, puttingthe ground rules in place.
If I use an analogy, if youimagine taking your team to the
top of a skyscraper, the tallestskyscraper you can think of,
it's got a flat roof, it's dark.
You take them right to the top,you take them out onto the roof
(17:26):
.
It's dark.
You take them right to the top,you take them out onto the roof
.
It's dark and they've gotroller skates on and the roof is
flat.
There's no edge, you know,apart from the drop off.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
They've got roller skates and you say to them skate
.
What are they going to do?
Probably not going to skate.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
They're going to stand still like, no, I'm not
doing this.
I'm not doing this Exactly.
So now, if you illuminate theroof with your vision, which is
so bright it lights up the wholeroof and you put railings
around the edge and say this isthe area we're working in, this
(18:10):
is where we're going, then theteam will skate and use all the
space and do amazing twirls thatyou never knew they could do on
their roller skates, becausethey they feel safe, they feel
they know the boundaries, theyknow where they're going.
So that creates trust.
It creates psychological safetyfor your people.
You've got to put theboundaries in place.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, how much I love that you put that, because
you're absolutely right.
I mean the illumination ofhere's where we're going, so
people can see it, and then youput parameters around here's
what within the context thatwe're working in.
What role does effectivecommunication play in that,
though?
I mean, oftentimes, you know,there's a big gap between what I
said and what they heard.
(18:52):
How do you help people closethat gap?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Part of that is using the insights discovery tool,
because that helps you to adaptand connect with different types
of people.
So some people want it inwriting, some people want it
with bells and whistles people.
So some people want it inwriting, some people want it
with bells and whistles, somepeople want it in pictures, some
people want it audio, somepeople want it visually.
(19:16):
So you have to use every styleof communication to communicate
with your people and you needthem to say it back to you to
know if they've understood.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Wow.
So what I'm hearing from you,ali, is as a leader.
It feels like if'm, if I'mlistening to you, like I'm doing
all the work as a leader toconnect with my people.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
In the beginning.
This is all the grumpymanagement work to set the scene
, to set the you know, to setthe parameters for the way we're
going to work.
And then, little by little,team member by team member,
their internal motivation willkick in.
And once that happens, you canflex your style and now it's
(19:54):
much more partnership, it's morecoaching, and then you've got
to let them go.
It's, you know, the enabledstage, as we call it.
You empower them, you transformthem.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yes, yes, I love it.
Which was the question thatcame up as you were walking
through the stages.
So you know you did one of thestages.
What are the stages?
You know?
Like you said, when you firstcome on, you're going to do a
lot of heavy lifting at thebeginning.
What?
are the stages of that you knowfor leaders, you know.
So you know you talk about theenabling stage.
What are the stages for leaders?
You know, so they can noticewhat stage they're in and what
(20:25):
they should or should not bedoing in those stages.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Absolutely so.
This is the process we defined.
Now, lots and lots ofmanagement gurus out there over
time have identified a four,four step leadership process.
It's called all differentthings, yes, and every process
is good, but most leaders arerubbish at working the process.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
They get stuck in that their four-step process in
their own style of leadership,their own preferred way of
working.
So the first stage is always wecall it visioning, mobilizing,
developing, enabling.
So visioning and mobilizingtake a lot of your time.
This is setting the rules,setting your visibility of style
(21:13):
, seeing what's going on, makingyour analysis, setting your
vision.
Then you go about throughexplicitness leaders aren't
normally explicit enough throughbeing assertive, appropriately
assertive.
This is where we're going andthis is how I want it done.
We nip performance issues inthe bud, we give feedback every
(21:37):
day and we maintain momentum.
So that takes time to put allthat stuff in place.
Once you do, we call that thetransactional stage.
And then the transformationalstage developing.
Once their internal motivationkicks in, we can now take
(21:57):
account of the individual'smotivation.
Right, how do we keep themmotivated?
How do we keep them on track?
We adapt our leadership styleaccordingly.
We don't need to be as explicitor give as much challenging
feedback or if the challenge iswhere next from the good you're
at, to even better.
So it's a different quality ofleadership and doesn't take as
(22:21):
much effort because they'resuper motivated to do it.
And then the enabled stage welet them go and we have to get
out of their way.
You should do yourself out of ajob and either they will stay
or they'll leave and go onsomewhere bigger and better.
And you have to have thegenerosity to allow them to go.
(22:42):
If there's nowhere for themhere, but at that enabled stage,
with your team, all you have todo is provide continued support
.
You empower them, you delegate,which is an act and also a
mindset delegation, and thenyou're just saying well done,
I've got a fully enabled teamaround me, all self-employed.
(23:04):
But I constantly say I love theway you crafted that email.
That was brilliant, the way youresponded to that.
So they know I can see them,I've got them.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yes, I love that, the fact that they know you can see
them and I think sometimes wedon't share enough of those
kinds of compliments.
So people know that you can seethem, which is important.
People want to be seen, theywant to be seen, they want to be
appreciated, they want to bevalued, and the best way is to
give some kind of feedback thatlets them know that you do see
them.
And so, leaders, if you'relistening, what are your ways
(23:37):
that you're doing every singleday, every single week?
Letting your team know you seethem and you appreciate them and
value them.
And it doesn't have to be long,it can be just a short thank
you.
Hey, I noticed you did this.
I really appreciate that.
You crafted the email that way.
Great job, and that's enough.
I think we make it moredifficult than it needs to be
sometimes as leaders, to letpeople know exactly what you
just said.
I see you, I hear you, Iappreciate you.
(23:58):
So, when you think aboutleaders first coming in, what if
you're talking to the newleader that's coming in?
Are there any particular thingsthat that they should focus on?
So, people that listen to andwatch the show, they always say,
well, that's my firstleadership role when do I start?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
So you start with who am I, what kind of leader am I,
what kind of leader do I wantto be?
And I now make it visible andconsistent.
As we've said, I now go andtalk to all of my people so that
I know who they are, Iunderstand their concerns, I
(24:34):
understand what they're doing.
I make my analysis of wherethey are and what they're doing
in terms of what I need toachieve now as the new leader of
this team and what you know.
What's the vision of theorganization and what is my
vision for this team here, andhow do they fit together?
So the leader has to do a lotof work.
(24:57):
One of the best um, can I talkabout a film, one of the best
films where you can see this sovisibly is an old film Coach
Carter.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
With Samuel L Jackson , because he does it in a very
extroverted way, but it's veryvisible.
He watches the team first ofall.
He just watches them.
He watches how the teaminteract, he watches what goes
on.
He watches a game before heeven agrees to take the job on,
(25:34):
so he gets to know the team.
So that would be the place tostart.
You can't do anything unlessyou know your team.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, I love that.
You said you know Ali is.
I get to know who they are andoftentimes, as leaders, we're so
busy trying to make sure theyknow who we are because we're
the leader.
You know we want to come in andlet me tell you my vision and
you really haven't said hey, Iwant to get to know you before I
put anything out, and I lovethat you also share that.
You know, as a leader, once youget to that enabling stage, all
(26:03):
you have to do is providesupport and it's almost like
owning a home.
Once it's built, everything'sin place.
If you continue to providesupport, that home will stand
for years.
But if you don't do the minorrepairs and you don't do the
cleanup and you don't do thethings that you need to do that
require service in that home,you'll find yourself with a home
that's not going to stand verylong.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yes, the foundations won't be there.
It'll crumble.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It won't be there, it'll crumble.
It won't be there.
It'll crumble on you over time.
So I would say, building a teamis just like that Do the hard
work up front and make sure thefoundation is solid and the
structure that it's standing onis solid.
Then you can do the littlethings later on.
But it's going to take work toclear the land and to pour the
foundation and make sure it'slevel.
(26:46):
All that does take time, but ifyou don't do it right, you will
have more problems later onbecause it's just not gonna
stand very long.
So we've talked about a lothere.
Ali, when you think about your20 years in the industry, in the
space, what do you think hasbeen some of the most measurable
changes you've seen happen thatleaders are starting to do
(27:06):
better at?
What do you notice over theyears?
You know, because it haschanged from when my
grandparents were leaders.
You know I watch my mother, myfather.
As entrepreneurs, we lose and Iwatch.
Now is my time and I'm in thatspace.
The way that they did thingsgave me a good platform, but I
had to change some of the thingsthat they've done or were doing
.
What are you noticing aboutleadership that leaders are
starting to embrace and changeto be more effective.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yes, certainly.
We've seen a huge shift fromthe kind of command and control
type leadership to much moreembracing leadership, servant
leadership and all that kind ofthing.
So it's constantly adapting tothe time you're in, whatever
time that is constantly.
I mean, the greatest leaders inthe world are constantly
changing.
You know, Madonna wouldn't beso amazing if she hadn't kept
(28:00):
reinventing herself.
Leaders are having to do thesame.
You can't do what you've alwaysdone.
Or, as Marshall Goldsmith wouldsay, what got you here?
won't get you there, so it'sbeing alert to what is going on.
You have to be reading, youhave to be listening to, you
know TED Talks and watching TEDTalks and podcasts and you have
to be absolutely on your game asa leader.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I love it.
Two questions for us.
We don't get time for us.
Game as a leader.
I love it.
Two questions for us.
We don't get time for us.
The first question is you saidsomething that's important
constantly being in class.
How important is that forleaders to constantly be
learning To constantly belearning, to continue reading,
to be in podcasts, to take acourse.
How important is it for leadersto constantly be a learner?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
It's hugely important .
Yes, you can't do this unlessyou're willing to learn, because
you're expecting your employeesto constantly learn.
So you can't do.
You can't expect that if youcan't do it yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Wow, which is amazing .
Thank you for sharing theresponse to that.
The other question what?
How valuable for you?
Valuable for you if you've hada mentor?
What role did it play in whoyou are today, and how valuable
is it for the people to seek outa mentor?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I would not be here today if I hadn't had the most
amazing mentor.
So it is super important andI've had experience of a great
mentor from.
I desperately needed a job in1990, like you do, a long time
ago.
I'm really old and the chap Imet at that time was a chartered
(29:42):
occupational psychologist, 20years older than me a bit more
than 20 years older than me andhe has been my guide and mentor
all these years.
He's now in his late 80s and hestill will phone me up and say,
ali, I've been thinking Superimportant.
(30:03):
But it's also important forleaders to pay that back.
So I am now mentoring a youngentrepreneur or two in Mauritius
to be able to help them growtheir businesses.
So it's really important tohave somebody who's a few years
older, a few years possiblywiser, to just share what they
(30:25):
know.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, I love that you said hey, I wouldn't be here if
it wasn't for that individualthat poured into me.
You know, more than I probablycould have ever.
You know, done for myself.
But also to give back, and Ithink that's the thing of
leaders, you know, being able toreach back versus hey, I have
mine.
You have to figure it out and Ihear that quite often where
people just leave people up totheir own devices.
Versus, hey, what can you do togive back to someone that's a
(30:48):
couple of years behind you, thatyou know where you started,
they're currently there andyou've learned some lessons.
So if you listen to this podcastone find a mentor, someone
that's ahead of you, and youenvision yourself being like
them, but then be a mentor, playboth ends of that, and you do
have the time.
It's important for us to dothat.
Is there anything that you'llshare, ali, that I really
(31:11):
haven't asked about?
I mean, you gave some greatresponses to the questions.
You share some great practicesand some processes.
Is there anything that wehaven't touched on that you want
to share that you feel is veryvaluable for our listeners?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
touched on that you want to share, that you feel is
very valuable for our listeners,possibly the one thing.
When I take coaches andtrainers, when I take leaders
through the Liberator program,the key skill of explicitness,
time and again, is the thingthey remember.
Mostly it's just a little shortbit in the book, but it's the
most powerful, because leadersoften aren't explicit enough.
(31:45):
They'll say something like useyour initiative or be passionate
.
What am I doing when I'mpassionate?
What am I doing?
You've got to be a betterstrategic thinker.
What does that look like whenI'm being a strategic thinker?
So leaders have to sayexplicitly and by this I mean
(32:10):
and these are the actions I needto see so that I know you're
doing it so to, and also ingiving feedback, which is part
of explicitness, make itconditional, which is part of
explicitness.
Make it conditional.
So don't just say that was agreat presentation.
Tell the person what you lovedabout the presentation, because
(32:31):
if you said that to me, I mightthink you might.
You know, was it the way Ipresented?
Was it my slides?
Was it my presence?
You know what was it about mypresentation, which was great.
You know what was it about mypresentation, which was great,
so make it conditional.
It was great because this iswhat I noticed, or it wasn't so
great because this is what Inoticed, and next time, if you
(32:54):
try this, it would make itsuperb.
Wow.
So you can give positiveconditional and negative
conditional just as effectivelyyes, yes, I, yes, I love the
word you know use effectively.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
If it works, great.
But if it's not working, I wantyou to know that as well.
So I don't normally use theword bad or good.
I say effective or ineffectiveis the language I use.
I mean, you've been phenomenalon answering the questions.
How do people reach out to you?
First, you know you have aphenomenal tool that you use and
help people figure out how tobe more effective as a leader.
How do people, where do peoplefind you?
(33:29):
How do they reach out to you?
If they want to, you know,bring you onto a podcast and
find out more about yourorganization or your tool.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Thank you so much, ron.
Well, everything with me is AliStewart and Co, so
wwwalistewartandcocom, linkedin,allie Stewart Co.
If it's Twitter Allie StewartCo, instagram, allie Stewart Co,
so they'll find me.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yes, yes, consistent.
So hopefully everyone haslistened to this.
She made it really easy.
With everything that she has,there's one brand, and so you
want to be the same way as whatAllie just did is what's your
brand?
How do people find you, how dopeople locate you?
She's visible, and there's onething that you can use to find
her, no matter what platform youare.
So if you're listening, you'repaying attention, you want to
(34:13):
reach out to her.
I love what you shared with ustoday.
I mean your passion you canfeel it in your, in your heart
and your conversation is thatyou're you're designed to do
this and you care a lot aboutdoing it.
You're designed to do this andyou care a lot about doing it.
And for everyone else that'slistening, hopefully we share
something in the time that wespent with you that made a
difference for how you show upas a leader.
That made a difference for howyou take care of the people that
are really counting on you, andyou figured out a way to find
(34:40):
out more about mentoring orfinding out your style of
communication or your style ofleading, and, more importantly,
that you find out that it takesa foundation and then you can
build from there.
So for all you just listen.
Thank you for joining, ali, andI know another episode of
Unpacked with Ron Harvey anduntil next time we wish you the
best.
We hope everything goes welland we hope that you reach out
to us and connect with us ifthere's anything we can do for
you, either one of us.
We're in this together acrossthe universe, so please reach
(35:02):
out to us if we can ever helpyou be a more effective leader.
Until next time, ali and I aresigning off.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron unpacks sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
(35:31):
matter.
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