May 19, 2025 • 45 mins
Kelly Shaw shares his 50-year journey in sales leadership, revealing how focusing on quality rather than quantity builds stronger customer relationships and creates "raving fans" who become lifelong clients and referral sources. He explains how understanding personality types, finding the right mentors, and genuinely caring about customers can transform ordinary salespeople into extraordinary performers.
• Traveled extensively through Spain and Europe, maintaining a second home in Malaga
• Developed leadership style from Marine Corps experience and studying great military leaders
• Specializes in turning around retail operations by identifying the right metrics and salespeople
• Demonstrated how focusing on close ratios and customer satisfaction beats pure volume metrics
• Believes in selling as a service: "Selling isn't doing something to somebody, it's doing it for somebody"
• Recommends understanding customer personality types through frameworks like DISC
• Advocates for scripts that salespeople can internalize and make their own
• Emphasizes finding mentors who have achieved what you want to accomplish
• Suggests joining mastermind groups when direct mentorship isn't available
• Believes in surrounding yourself with people who energize rather than drain you
• Recommends always asking "why" to understand customers' deeper motivations
Download Kelly's free book through the link provided and reach him at kshaw@highticketteams.io for help with hiring, training, and motivating salespeople.
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host
leadership consultant, ronHarvey of GlobalCore Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, ron.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Harvey, good afternoon.
This is Ron Harvey, the vicepresident of Chief Operating
Officer of Global CoreStrategies and Consulting, which
is a leadership firm, and wespend all of our time working
with leaders to really help themhone in on their skills to take
better care of their teams.
You know, at the end of the day,if you want to like sum it up,
we do that through coaching, wedo it through training, we do
(00:38):
that through a lot of differentmethods, but our primary goal is
just to make the people thatlead better for the people that
they do lead.
What I do every day in thatspace is nice, but we pause and
do a podcast where we inviteguests from around the world
with all different backgrounds,all different skill sets, books
and programs and tools andtechniques that you can use, and
I love it because there's somany perspectives that our
(01:00):
guests share with you every timethey come on.
So I'm excited to have on uswith Kelly Shaw.
He's going to introduce himselfand tell you a little bit about
he did.
Of course, you know we're goingto unpack and have fun.
So, kelly, welcome to the stageand thank you for saying yes
without any questions in advance.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
My pleasure, ron, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it and youknow it's always better when you
just free, free flow and youknow you don't have any scripted
questions or scripted answers.
So hey, let's do it yes, man.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So let's dive in.
Man.
I mean, we were in the greenroom, so for all you know that,
you know you get to see theclean version of this.
But we were.
We were working throughchallenges.
I couldn't hear kelly.
I said, okay, man, just log out, come back in, we'll figure it
out.
So we're here, we made it andyou're just coming back from
Spain.
I mean, so you travel a lot andyou get to do it.
How is Spain?
I mean, what do you enjoy?
I mean you travel there twice ayear.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, we go at least twice a year for about six to
eight weeks at a time.
This year I don't know if we'regoing to go twice or three
times.
We go to a music festival everyJuly in Madrid called Mad Cool,
which is really a fun,three-day, beautiful festival.
I went to Coachella 19 years ina row, but 22 was my last year,
so 19 years.
I wanted to go to 20, but themusic lineup didn't work for me.
(02:14):
And then we discovered Mad Cooland we've been going there now
for three years.
Yeah, we love Spain, we love theculture, we love the people, we
love the history.
You know we travel Europe a lotand we decided to buy a place
in Spain.
So we actually have a smalllittle two-bedroom condo that
was built in 1870.
(02:34):
Wow and was remodeled in a towncalled Malaga, which is this
old Moorish town that's got ahuge castle that's very famous,
and it's about a block from ourhouse, actually.
And, um, one of our neighborsis a guy named antonio banderas.
He just lives one block overand one block down and has a
(02:55):
really nice restaurant called elpimpy.
That's really fun to go to.
But there's so many placesthere's where live within a
10-minute walk in any direction.
There are 300 bars andrestaurants.
Wow.
Like we don't have a car whenwe live there.
Like we can't even walk.
We walk everywhere, wow 1870.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, wow, there's a lot of history in that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Man, you think about 1870.
I mean, most of the West wasn'teven built by then.
Really, it was getting out ofthe Civil War.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yes, 1870.
Wow, still standing solid.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Still standing and solid.
Not really sure about theelectrical or the plumbing from
time to time, but the buildingitself is good.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I'm sure that's been upgraded or updated, but it's
probably still need more.
So I mean, even when you thinkabout the work that we do, you
think about, you know, legacyand long lasting.
We do a lot of leadership here.
When you think of your journeyand how you got to doing the
work that you do, what made youlean into leadership?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
You know, years ago I was mentored when I got into.
So next month not February, butMarch it'll be 50 years in
sales and I continue to learn.
I was very fortunate I wastrained by old school sales
trainers that talked aboutserving first, doing the right
thing for the client, making ita great experience, and how to
(04:22):
develop a clientele that israbid for you, your service,
your product, your company,whatever.
So I was very fortunate Iwasn't trained in any of the
sales gimmicky techniques thathave been out there.
So by going through like, I'vebeen through a lot of management
training and I went throughmanagement training in college
when I came out of the MarineCorps and I think I got a lot of
(04:44):
my leadership style from theMarines.
I was very fortunate.
I went in 1970 as a 17-year-oldand there are some bad leaders
and then I was fortunate to havea couple of good ones and then,
of course, studied greatmilitary leaders throughout my
life and I think they all have alot of great things in common.
(05:06):
Now I specialize, of course, inthe sales aspect.
So I've been going in now since1978.
My job has kind of been a hiredgun to go in and turn around
retail.
Now it's really easy to turnaround a retail operation One.
Most companies don't know howto hire the right salespeople
(05:28):
and typically a lot of companieswill have one or two
salespeople that are supposedlyhigh performers, but they create
so much chaos and so muchanxiety in the rest of the
workforce and in the back officethat it's just not worth it to
have them around.
When people really dig into theKPIs, they realize that they
can get make more money and havea much smoother run operation
(05:52):
with a lot more camaraderie ifthey were to hire just really
good salespeople that understandthe value of quality versus
quantity.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Let's unpack that for a second, though.
And, kelly, I mean you'rehitting on some things that are
super important.
I mean I tell people sales isinvolved in everyday life, all
day.
Nothing happens untilsomething's sold is what I tell
people.
Correct, it's just the realityof it.
When you think about KPIs forpeople that are listening, that
are into sales and that probablynever, ever tie KPIs to sales,
(06:25):
what are some KPIs for sales?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, let me give you an example.
I just wrote an articleyesterday.
I went back to I was doing whatwas called a dealer 20 group.
I was kind of a fractionalmanager.
I would go in, just dealer 20group.
I had all these Toyota dealers,large Toyota dealers, and one
of my clients was Elway Toyotaand Elway Honda and Demi-Cola.
(06:48):
I was flying once a month anddo some work.
But in this dealer 20 group Ihad a dealer come in and I said,
hey, listen, when you come in,I want you to bring some
homework, I want you to tell mewho your top two performers are
and give me some of theirnumbers, give me your KPIs and
then tell me who you're about tofire or you just fired, and get
(07:08):
me their KPIs.
So he had two reps he wasreally proud of.
They sold about I don't know alittle over 30 cars a month each
right.
So decent the profit we'll callit profit.
The revenue was about $1,000per vehicle sold.
So between the two of them theygenerated about $60,000 to
$66,000 in profit a month.
The dealer was ecstatic.
(07:29):
He thought these were likegreat.
I said well, how many clientsdid they see he goes?
I don't know, I go.
Well, do you track that?
He goes?
Yeah, somewhere I go.
Well, who keeps track of that?
He told me the person's name.
I said let's make a phone call.
But I don't know if this isgoing to work.
But I said let's make a phonecall.
(07:51):
We called the office managerand the sales manager and these
two guys had seen 600 clients.
This is a big volume dealership.
So I said, okay, so they'reseeing 600 clients, they're
selling 60.
They got a 10% close ratio.
You think that's good.
Let's talk about the guy youwere going to fire.
Now why didn't you fire him?
Well, the guy took another dayoff.
He takes days off all the time.
I'm really irritated.
I go, so he takes days off.
(08:11):
How many cars did he sell?
15.
Oh, cool, so he sells 15, abouthalf of what the other guys do.
What was his profit margin pervehicle?
Well, it was a little over$1,100, $1,200 on the front end,
but about a little over $1,100,$1,200 on the back end.
So actually it was about $2,000per car.
So in seeing Les Ben, he onlysaw 97 clients, but he sold 15
(08:39):
cars.
I go, that's almost a 30% closeratio.
He made 50% as much profit asthe other guy who sold twice as
many cars.
And I go, that's almost a 30%close ratio.
He made 50% as much profit asthe other guy who sold twice as
many cars.
And I go, if you were to takethose other 500 clients those
guys saw and you were to replacethem with one more of him,
(08:59):
right, yes, you would actuallysell, and I forget the number of
cars but the gross profit wouldbe over $220,000 a month more
than it was making right now.
He immediately fired those twoguys.
We put in a plan to hire theright guys and I said look, this
guy's taking time off, he'sspending time with his family.
Your office manager loves him,your finance manager loves him,
(09:22):
your sales manager loves him.
The guys you fired they haven'tgotten one repeat sale in two
years.
They haven't gotten onereferral and they've never
received a five-star rating.
A lot of threes, a lot of twos,a few ones and some people
saying if there was zero, Iwould give them a zero.
But your other guy who you'regoing to fire was getting
(09:48):
five-star reviews.
Repeat customers when you get arepeat customer, you're not
paying additional money for thatat sale.
When you're getting referrals,you're not putting any money out
.
What gets you repeat customersand sales is the quality of the
relationship you know likebetween your salesperson and
(10:08):
they build your reputation.
These other guys are tearingyour reputation down.
I tell companies all the time.
I work with a company calledHigh Ticket Teams.
We help businesses recruit,hire, interview, train 1099
salespeople.
That's our primary thing.
And we tell all the time, likeone salesperson, untrained who's
(10:32):
not doing ethical things canruin your reputation that you've
built 20, 30 years as a companyIs it really worth it?
When I used to do hiring, Iused to tell businesses like
look, I believe in multiple stepinterviews, group interviews,
group interviews, not only withthe salespeople that we're
thinking about hiring, but whenthey come in for a live
(10:53):
interview, there's a couple ofus looking at this person and we
get to see how they performunder pressure.
And I tell people all the timelook, if you wouldn't have them
over to your house at dinner andwalk out of the room or run
outside and leave them with yourwife and kids or your husband
and kids or just your kids, whywould you want to hire them Like
(11:13):
?
That makes no sense to me.
They're the lifeblood of yourbusiness.
You know there's high qualitysalespeople or a culture that
rewards quality is reallyimportant.
In my career I've been veryfortunate.
I got hired by AMF Bayliner toturn a dealership around in the
(11:34):
90s.
I was going bankrupt.
It was literally three monthsaway from going out of business
Wow, and in 12 months I turnedit to number one in the world.
Now I will tell you I don'tknow a thing about boats, except
the pointy end goes forward,that's it.
I don't know anything else.
Here's what I did know afterspending a week in the
dealership.
(11:54):
People buy boats for really kindof three Fs Friends, family and
fun.
Or fun with friends and family.
Yes, that's it.
They don't buy them becauseboats are really kind of a black
hole to put money into.
So we just sold fun withfriends and family and we we
sold so many boats we had.
(12:15):
You know, we went from almost a0% finance penetration rate to a
hundred percent not quite ahundred, but close to it.
And then, but our finance, ourpenetration for warranty, was a
hundred percent because I wasn'tgoing to let anybody walk out
that door, because I know boatsbreak down all the time without
a five-year warranty on it.
So bumper, we'll call it bumperto bumper.
Boats don't have bumpers.
(12:36):
Stand to stern, stand to stern,and then it was like to get the
culture and the businesstogether.
You know, you had to make itfun, you had to make it
competitive, you had to makepeople believe that you believed
in them, trusted them.
And it was an old principle ofFord Motor Company that, as a
(13:06):
manager, your job is to trainthe people under you to take
over when you're not there.
And the ship should run as goodor better than when you're
there.
And if it's running better,you've done your job.
Now you can move up or move on,and I used to tell people when
I ran financial servicesbusiness my job is to train you
to become independent.
(13:27):
I want you to become a high,high, high, six-figure, maybe
even seven-figure salesperson.
But I want you to grow, and Iwant you to grow with this
company.
When it's time to spread yourwings, let me help you.
That's when you create theright culture in a business.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yes, you said a couple of things I'd like to
unpack, Kelly.
I mean I'm going to lean backin and go back a ways forward.
You talk about the value ofrelationships and you think of
sales and time relationships.
Can you unpack how valuerelationships, regardless of
your degree or your titles, thevalue of having a very ethical,
great relationship and getrepeat customers?
(14:04):
How do you build a very goodrelationship?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well, when I started my financial firm, I think, when
I'm working, when I'm talkingand I try to train this whenever
I do sales training it's likelook, selling isn't doing
something to somebody, it'sdoing it for somebody.
So if it's the right thing todo, I want to make sure that
(14:28):
they purchase either my productor my service.
But I know that if I'm doing myjob right, this isn't going to
be the first sale I ever makethem.
So I got to do it ethically, soI can sleep at night.
But once they buy it, eventhough sometimes it's not the
salesperson's responsibility todo the follow-up, why wouldn't
you, why wouldn't you make surethat whatever you sold them,
(14:50):
whatever they purchased let'suse that word whatever they
purchased, are they using itproperly?
Are they using it to theiradvantage?
Are they taking advantage ofwhat it could do for them?
A lot of salespeople sellproducts or services that can be
life-changing for a lot ofpeople, particularly in the
financial services world, in themedical field, in the health
(15:10):
and wellness field.
Goodness, I mean, I'm 71 yearsold, a little 72.
And the other day I did 243pushups in five sets.
My body's, my temple right.
So if you're in a business ofselling health and wellness.
You want to make sure that in abusiness of selling health and
wellness, you want to make surethat people are doing it, doing
it right, doing it all for theright reasons.
I've been in financial services30 years.
(15:30):
I retired eight, maybe almost10 years ago now and my clients
won't let me go.
You know you've got and you'vedone and you've built the
relationships when you haveclients that actually will call
you because they value youropinion.
I get calls sometimes fromclients that I've had and they
go hey, kelly, I'm thinkingabout buying this car.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Let me Google that.
Yes, where are you looking?
Let me make a phone call foryou to the car dealer.
I know a bunch of car dealers.
I was in the business.
I can get you a good dealwithout playing any games.
Tell know a bunch of cardealers.
I was in the business.
I can get you a good dealwithout playing any games.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou're looking for, what you
want.
I'll find the internet manageror the sales manager or the GM
or the GSM and I'll book anappointment for you to go in and
(16:16):
see them and take care of it.
Now, do I get paid for that?
Well, I don't get paidmonetarily, but I do get paid in
the fact that I know my clientstrust and love me and they will
never buy a financial productfrom anybody else.
Even though I'm not necessarilylicensed anymore my wife is, so
we do everything through hername.
But that's when you know whenyou've got raving fans.
(16:37):
Raving fans are what everybusiness is all about.
I mean, I hate to use Amazon asan example, but I got to tell
you I rarely ever have a problemwith Amazon.
I don't first thing, I think, tobuy something.
I go there why I get treatedright.
You know the same thing withbars and like bars, restaurants.
(16:58):
You go to a place you like, youget good quality food, but they
treat you a little special.
You know like, oh hey, good tosee you.
A little special.
You know like, oh hey, good tosee you again.
Kelly, know your name, yeah,know your name, know your face.
And you know, hey, haven't seenyou guys in a while.
You've been traveling.
Again I go, oh yeah, you know,it's like you want to go back
there.
It's kind of like cheers.
Hey, it's a place you want tobe and I think a lot of
(17:23):
businesses, a lot of businessowners, or we'll call it upper
management I don't think theyreally know how to create that
culture.
A lot of upper management.
Sometimes they manage from fearor with an iron ruler.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Can you speak to that one, kelly?
I mean because if you're insales or you're in any
organization, there's somemetrics and metrics can get in
the way of you're chasing thatdollar amount or you're tracing
this quota or you're tracingwhat your boss is saying.
Can they get in the way?
You know, managers canoftentimes say I've got to meet
these results and it's going tobe by any means necessary, even
at the cost of destroying somerelationships.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I think I was just getting ready to write an
article on actual leadership andone of the problems is what's
called psychological safety andtrust.
You know, if you're, I try totell salespeople, like never
think about the sale, neverthink about the money.
Think always about doing theright thing.
(18:21):
Sometimes you have to turn downbusiness to do that, but you've
got to have a game plan.
Yeah, we, you have to turn downbusiness to do that, but you've
got to have a game plan.
Yeah, we all have to hitcertain metrics.
But as a manager, it's not ourjob to get down on somebody.
It's like okay, listen, yournumbers are low.
So what typically happens is welook at numbers at the end of
the month and say it's kind oflike doing your taxes after
(18:44):
January.
You need to do your taxplanning in October.
You need to sell your loserstocks and if you love them so
much, buy them back in January,but take advantage of the
write-offs or whatever.
You got to do your planning inNovember, october, not January.
It's already after the fact,and a lot of managers, business
owners, look at sales after thefact.
(19:07):
It's at the end of the month.
What happened?
Well, you need to come up withsome sort of metrics or, you
know, safety rails.
There was a message in Cherksthis week safety rails, which I
get.
You know, I used to use thatanalogy of would you ever walk
across the Golden Gate Bridgewithout those side rails and I
(19:28):
was like, oh hell, no, I ain'tgoing close to that bridge,
that's way down there, it's likehigh street.
But I remember as a salespersonmyself, if I wanted to sell
we'll say 30 of something, Iknew that most of my sales were
going to come probably close tohalf in the last 10 days, but to
(19:48):
at least be ahead of schedule.
If I could sell half of thoseby the 15th of the month, that
means I'd have to sell seven,maybe by the 7th of the month or
the 8th of the month or the 9th.
I would keep track of mymetrics and then I would try to
analyze each one.
One thing I learned in themilitary when you go out in
(20:11):
combat you come back, youdebrief right Like what went
right, what went wrong, what thehell went wrong, why did it go
wrong and how can we avoid thatfrom happening in the future?
So I learned a technique yearsago.
So I would take salespeople out, train them in the field live
and I would have them watch methe first few times and I'd let
(20:32):
them a little by little kind oftake over.
Then I would let them run thewhole show.
But what happened is, when Iwas doing it, I would come out
and say, okay, so, bob, what didyou think I did really well in
that?
What did you think I did, okayit?
I would come out and say, okay,so, bob, what did you think I
did really well in that?
What did you think I did?
Okay, but I could probablyimprove on what do you think I
didn't do very good that Ishould be aware of that.
(20:52):
Maybe next time I can do better.
And was there anything I didthat you think hindered or hurt
the sale that I want to avoidnext time?
And that would get some reallygood dialogue going.
So they're now interviewing meand you got to have thick skin
because they're going to seethings.
Maybe you didn't see when youwere in there.
Now, I always close deals.
So even if I did some stuffwrong, I still close the deal.
(21:14):
But when they would do it, Iwould do the same thing.
I always started with thepositive what do you think you
did right.
Sometimes they would think theydid a lot of stuff really right
.
I would have to disagree, but Iwouldn't.
I would say, yeah, I think youdid most of that pretty good.
What do you think you couldhave improved upon?
And I work on the things theycould have improved upon, and
(21:34):
then we kind of dissect it andthen we mentioned I'll ask them
what do you think you did thatprobably hindered you from
making that sale?
And then we would work on that.
And I didn't wait till the endof the month to go back over
their 40 clients.
Like I did that on a weeklybasis.
We would have a week.
Hey, you went out and saw eightclients this week.
(21:56):
They had $2.4 million inavailable money.
Well, I would ask them how muchmoney they were in front of
them.
They'd say about $600,000.
I'd go well, it's actually 2.4.
Why did you think you were onlyin front of $600,000 versus 2.4
?
Well, they had this, they had arelationship with the banker,
they had this, they had that,and I'd go those are all excuses
(22:17):
, you were still in front of 2.4.
And then we'd go like, what'dyou say?
What'd you do?
Blah, blah, blah.
And it's the first 90,.
It depends on the industry.
The first 90 days, everybodyneeds a lot of handholding, and
I learned something many yearsago that a kick in the butt is
six inches away from a pat onthe back, and all sales staffs
(22:39):
need a little bit of both.
To what degree?
How much?
What percentage is differentfrom person to person, and if
you're not the person to pat himon the back and lightly kick
him in the butt, you need to putsomebody in there who can, who
is doing it for all the rightreasons, not just yelling and
screaming at him because theydidn't hit their freaking quota.
(23:00):
If they didn't hit their quota,it's your job as management,
because you didn't put thethings in place to help them
achieve those things.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Wow, a lot of great nuggets and hopefully people are
jotting down.
I mean, because if you're insales and the information that
Kelly's dropping, you should betaking notes and probably, you
know, at the end of this year Iwant his email address or
contact you know.
So, when you think about salesand people that are in it
outside of their own attitude,what's the thing that gets most
(23:30):
people caught up?
So I love the idea that salesis service and it's not what
you're doing to people, is whatyou're doing to help people.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
What's the biggest object?
Because most of us we thinksales.
We think here comes a slicktalker, fast talker, want to get
paid, want to continue to getwealthy off of me or going to
take advantage of me.
And how do you help if I'm asalesperson?
Get over that perception ofsalespeople.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Well, I don't know if you're familiar with the GIF
profile or the Colby, yeah.
So I'm a 10 quick start onColby, me and Dan Sullivan.
We're like herd and catch.
It's a little challenging.
My wife is also a 10 quickstart.
We're a hot mess and in thedisc I'm a very fast-paced
(24:16):
people-oriented.
So I train a lot of people totry to understand disc, not only
to understand their clients alittle bit better, but most
importantly to understandthemselves and their pace and
focus.
So I did pretty well withengineers.
It's because I knew to slowdown and not get friendly, be
(24:37):
very blunt and to the point,professional, which is not my
normal style, by the way.
But I also knew I couldn't usebig language.
It's the best.
It's like hey, here's whatso-and-so said.
Hey, if you go to this magazine, you go to this article or if
you do research, you know,google this and here's what
(24:58):
you're going to find out.
I would always have printedcopies with a lot of highlight
stuff and I would always operateunder the assumption that that
person probably knows as muchabout my product as me.
Just be flat to the point andbe professional.
They're going to go and dotheir research.
Don't push them.
They're not going to buy.
You try to push them BoomS-style personalities.
(25:19):
I just got to talk up.
I got to slow down still.
I got to talk about the family,the future, who's going to take
care of them, how it's going towork.
Maybe you should sell themsomething with a warranty how to
actually do all that.
So I'm going to talk a littleabout the future.
But these, that are thedominant personality.
I'm just going to get to thepoint, not be overly friendly,
but I got to move fast becausethey're like give me the facts,
(25:40):
I want them yesterday and let meget the hell out of here and
I'll make my decision.
So you got to give them alittle bit of control.
You got to at least let themthink they are in control and
you got to boost their ego alittle bit With eyes.
You just got to quit having toomuch fun talking too much and
ask them to buy.
They'll buy.
Then you can continue to havefriends and go to happy hour
after the sale.
So when I was, I think, reallystarting to get really good at
(26:05):
sales, I would kind of studylike, what do people really
think about salespeople?
And I wanted to give adifferent persona.
So I did everything I could.
Now, one of the things I did Ididn't need glasses.
But I remember telling mygirlfriend many years ago I go
hey, you're applying for thisjob with this big company, pull
(26:30):
back your hair into a ponytail,put on glasses.
She goes I don't wear glasses,I don't care, it'll make you
look really professional, it'llmake you look more studious and
you're overly excitable.
So when you go in there, calmthe hell down, talk slower.
And she got this incredible jobbecause this person thought she
was one of the most intelligentpeople, smartest people she
ever met.
And I did the same thing Iwould wear glasses and when I
(26:53):
would greet people, I wouldn'tbe overly excited.
People say in sales you shouldbe really excited.
Well, excitement comes from thegreatest sale ever made, which,
by the way, is the name of mybook.
Yes, that's available for allyour podcast people for free.
Um, it's about the sale youmake to yourself, about you as a
person, what you can deliver tothe client, your product, your
(27:17):
service and your company.
And if it's the right product,service, you're the right
salesperson.
You, you've got the rightcompany.
You owe it to them to close itand to make sure they're
utilizing it properly.
So I hope I answered yourquestion.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I kind of got off on a roll.
Yeah, you did.
Yeah, For the audience.
I mean, you do have a book andit's out.
So how do people get to yourbook?
I'm going to give a couple ofthem.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, you'll have a link here and it should be in
the bottom of your stuff herepretty soon.
But, yeah, they can follow thatlink.
Give us their name, email andthen they'll be able to download
the book.
And then there's a biggerversion of that book coming out
where we're going to a lot moreleadership, a lot more team
building, how to build dynamicteams that are cohesive, they're
fun, they're empowering and howto empower teams to do the work
(28:02):
.
And that book will be comingout in about five months and
everybody who downloads mycurrent book will get a free
version of that when it comesout, so they don't have to worry
about buying either one ofthose.
Awesome, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So, kelly, as people are listening, and definitely
for the sales professionals thatare out there, you've managed
to do it really really well.
What are some reasons forpeople that, if they want to
reach you, what are some thingsthat's happening for them and
how can you help them?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Well, you see, I'm talking to an individual person
and maybe they're struggling.
Whatever I mean one, I'm a goodlistener.
At least I believe I'm a goodlistener most of the time.
My wife sometimes may not agree, but I try, I really try, you
try, yeah, but I think in my 50years and probably 45 of that
being in management, maybe thewhole 50, actually almost the
(28:52):
whole 50, all except for two orthree I've been able to actively
get involved with helpingsalespeople by listening, by
giving them some anecdotes, bymaybe giving them some
alternatives.
I'm really good when I'm insales and talking to people
about their presentations, aboutverbal cues, body language,
(29:15):
tonality, verbal pacing, how toask the right questions, like
how to use their facialexpressions.
I was very fortunate, I think81, 82,.
I took an acting class so Icould get better at sales and
that really helped me use mybody language, my facial
expressions, to get certainpoints across without being
(29:36):
verbose.
I can help a lot of people withtheir mental attitude.
I can help them with scripting,like, if you go into a room
with 5,000 salespeople and youask how many people like scripts
, I think you're going to findthat 4,900 hate them, yes, but
the 100 that like them wereprobably some of the higher
achievers.
(29:57):
And I was in a room the otherday.
I was in Philadelphia on Friday, yeah, and I asked this room
and I was on a Zoom.
I had a room full ofsalespeople for Thrivent
Financial and a big Zoom roomand I asked how many people like
scripts?
And like, every one of themkept their hand up.
I go.
So how many people hate scripts?
Everybody put their hand up andI said well, how many of you
(30:19):
were born in the U S?
What language are you born?
Speaking English, english,english, english, english.
I go, ds.
You weren't born speaking adamn word.
You didn't say mama or dad atuntil you were probably five,
six, eight, nine months old.
And some of y'all talk funnyman, like some lit soda.
Or from you, you guys like fromMinut Soda.
(30:39):
Or from you, you guys fromPhilly, I got to tell you.
Or you know, there's a coupleof y'all from the South.
Y'all have different actions.
Those are your scripts, I go.
I know salespeople have scriptsthat are worth 50 grand a year.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
It's the English language, it's the same damn
words.
It's how they're positioned andhow you internalize it.
I've got friends that literallymake $100,000 a freaking month,
month in, month out.
They're between $1, $1.2, $1.3,$1.5 million as 1099
salespeople.
Why?
(31:14):
They have better scripts and Ilearned a long time ago to
internalize something.
So I'll tell you a short story.
When I got hired in financialservices, this guy hired me to
sell annuities and he goes youthink you can sell annuities?
And I go oh yeah, my ego says Ican sell anything.
And I go what's an annuity?
He gives me literally 15minutes of training, kicks my
(31:38):
butt out the door to go sell amovie and I sold a couple.
I don't know how, but I did.
I come back and go dude, let mefollow you for a week.
I want to go on the road withyou because you're a beast.
Now understand this is a rideor down for your audience.
Yes, success leads crumbs andclues.
So does failure.
Too many people pick up theclues and the crumbs of failure.
(32:00):
So I followed this guy for aweek and then back in the day
and of course I recorded a lotof calls and I recorded myself
practicing, drilling andrehearsing military background
and my wife walked by my officeone day.
It was in the home and I setappointments the Saturday, the
week before I would go out.
My territory was from NorthernCalifornia all the way through
(32:23):
Bisbee, arizona, all the waydown past Tucson.
And she goes when did you startstuttering?
I go, I don't stutter, she goes.
You were just stuttering I go.
No, I wasn't, she goes.
You were, I go, I was not.
I go.
No, I wasn't, she goes.
You were, I go, I was not.
She goes.
Listen to the tape.
So I rewound the tape and Iwent.
Oh, that's where Paul, my mentor, stuttered every time he was in
(32:48):
the sales presentation.
I don't know if he did it onpurpose, but I found myself
after a week of traveling withhim, internalizing all his great
habits.
Right, that's what everybodyshould do Get a mentor that you
want to be like, who's achievedwhat you want to achieve and do
(33:08):
what they do.
And honestly, for like fouryears of being on the road, I
actually stuttered almost everytime at that spot.
I don't know why it was, just Iinternalized it so much I
couldn't get out of it.
But he had a script that closeda huge amount of deals.
Now he also had a really highfallout ratio.
(33:30):
So I had to take his script,put it with my personality,
internalize it in a manner thatworks with me.
Still basically the same 85%probably and then I was able to
close almost as much as him.
But at the end of the monthmine all stuck together.
His didn't, and mine created nogrief in the company.
(33:53):
His did.
He's my boss, don't get mewrong.
He was great.
He still accomplished greatthings.
I just did a better job becauseI did what he did, but I
fine-tuned it to me and mypersonality.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Love it.
I mean phenomenal.
I love that you say find amentor.
So if you're listening andyou're paying attention to what
Kelly and I are talking about,you should have a mentor,
someone that's ahead of youseveral paces, that's doing well
and has achieved what you'retrying to achieve and figure out
what it is that they're doing.
I mean, and that's in every,regardless of where you are,
what industry, you know whatyou're doing find a mentor.
(34:28):
It's one of the greatestinvestments you can do is find
someone ahead of you that'sgoing to help you become great.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Absolutely, and you know, the funny thing is, ron,
is that people that are reallysuccessful they want to help you
yes, it's people that arestruggling or they're afraid
you're going to beat them willnot help you.
Insecure, very insecure Peoplethat have made it.
They've been there.
Maybe they've been there two orthree times.
Maybe they've been there andfailed and they build themselves
back up.
(34:53):
They want to help and if youcan't find a mentor, get into a
mastermind group.
I used to help set up mastermindgroups for financial services
industry.
That's a way in the carbusiness.
They're called D or 20 groups.
Today you got to probably spendmoney to be in a mastermind,
but it's worth it.
If you think about what Jim Rohnsaid many years ago so many
(35:14):
other people have said this andit might even be in the Bible
you are the accumulation of yourfive closest friends, right,
the five people you hang outwith the most.
I went to a Dan Sullivanstrategic coach event many years
ago called the CouplesConference.
There are about 300 couples allhigh producers getting together
, sharing information and how tohave a great life and a perfect
(35:37):
life, and so the spouses orpartners could understand what
goes on in day-to-day business,because a lot of them don't
sometimes right, especially asmen.
We compartmentalize it.
How's everything?
Oh fine, let me just relax, nottalk about work.
And I learned that there aretwo types of people in the world
people that just drain energyout of you, and you know, when
you're around them, you'rearound them.
(36:03):
You're around them for an houror two and everything's negative
.
It's bitch, moan and complainand you leave there.
You're just drained.
But there's other people whenyou're around them, they give
you energy and excitement.
I have a buddy named SteveMcCarthy great guy, great
salesperson, and I trained himin financial services.
His previous company had failedbecause his business partner
took advantage of a lot of stuff, but he wanted to get back into
sales, just direct sales, andhim and I spent some time on the
(36:27):
road.
Great, great, great guy.
But when I'm around him, or himand his wife, we could talk for
like 10 hours, stay up allnight long and come up with at
least 20 ways to make the worlda better place.
And we're just.
From that point on, we're on amission and that's what we as
human beings have to surroundourselves.
You know, even Jesus surroundedhimself with a mastermind group
(36:49):
.
I think they were called theapostles.
Yes, pretty sure.
Yeah.
Jesus realized he couldn't dothis alone.
He needed 12 people to spreadthe word.
You know, in business I had 12clients that were my.
What do we call it?
We call it a special name, butwe invited 12 clients to be on
(37:10):
our board to meet four times ayear for a special dinner and
just talk about the business,talk about where we're heading,
what we're thinking about doing,get their ideas on our upcoming
holiday party gifts, I mean.
And they were our raving fans.
Some of those clients are 85,90 years old today.
I can't get rid of them, eventhough I kind of want to
(37:31):
sometimes, but they keep givingme money.
And that's building a greatbusiness when you have raving
fans that they consider you partof the business.
Let me give you an example, ron.
I have a client named FridaBarrett.
Frida's husband just died.
She's got to be 90-somethingfreaking years old, I don't know
(37:54):
.
She's way up there and she'sstarting to get dementia real
bad.
But her kids came to me andsaid hey, you do financial stuff
for my mom, can you do it forme?
Sure, and you know it's likewhatever you want, kelly, just
tell us what to do, we'll do it.
Okay.
Their kids, frida's grandkids,are coming to me saying, hey,
(38:16):
you took care of my parents andmy grandmother.
They said I should come to seeyou for financial advice.
Isn't that what we really wantfrom our business?
Is people out there you're notpaying money to that are
spreading the word?
It's like we all have ourfavorite restaurants we send
people to all the time Becausewhy?
We know they're going to getgreat food.
They're going to give uscompliments for sending them
there.
They're going to get taken careof.
(38:36):
Their staff is wonderful.
But do we get an affiliatecheck?
Nope.
Do we get a commission check inthe mail?
Nope, but we get paid bysatisfaction.
Right.
And as a business owner or uppermanagement, you want to build
that team not only sales, butthe whole, how every department
(38:57):
interacts, where you're allworking for the same goal, which
is to deliver the right productto the person or people, make
sure they take care of it.
They're raving fans and they'regoing to send you more business.
So that at some point I know mybusiness plan.
When I started financialservices I donate I had X number
(39:19):
of dollars a year I was goingto use for outgoing marketing to
attract new clients and eachyear I would drop that by 15 to
20% and devote that money toclient retention and at the end
of five years I didn't have tospend marketing money.
It was like so minimal.
Yet all the people I knew inthe industry were spending
$40,000 a month.
$30,000 a month and I'mspending like four, three and
(39:44):
getting the same results becauseI've got great word of mouth,
good reviews, repeat clients.
You have to put very minimalamount of money in for repeat
clients.
You just got to give them a lotof attention.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Awesome.
I mean really, really great.
Mastermind, as you talk about.
You know this podcast and youtalk about the work that you do
and masterminds and mentoring.
I think all great ideas.
As we come to a close, twothings I want to close out with
is what's the one piece ofadvice that I haven't asked you
about, that you haven't shared,that you would say here's a
golden nugget I want to leavewith you and share.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
That you would say here's a golden nugget I want to
leave with you and then we'lldo your contact information.
I was speaking at an event, ona panel, and a moderator asked
me a question.
They go, kelly, if you have oneword, one bit of nugget you
could give us right now to helpsalespeople change their
trajectory, what would it be?
And I go why she goes.
Well, I mean she expounds uponthat and I go why she goes.
(40:40):
Well, I mean she expounds uponthat and I go why.
And she goes.
Well, she was gettingfrustrated.
I go, the word is why.
And she laughed.
And I go.
Here's the deal.
Like, salespeople don't askenough questions, they don't dig
deeper.
You know, and I would say, as asalesperson, as a business
owner, as a manager, know thebig whys, whys of your employees
(41:03):
, whys of your clientele.
And as a salesperson, as abusiness owner, always ask the
question why?
Why today, you know, why isthat important to you?
How is that important to yourfamily?
Learn different ways of diggingdeeper, asking more questions.
I think, if you have thatnatural curiosity, I've been
very fortunate.
(41:24):
I don't know how I learned that.
Maybe it's just because I'malways interested, I love people
and I want to find out, but Ialso know that there's a reason.
Somebody's here and you knowthey don't have to be here.
They don't have to be talkingto me.
So why are they here?
What's really their pain point?
What's the bridge they'retrying to get across?
Get out of this hell, excuse me, and get over to this sunny
(41:47):
resort vacation area where lifeis grand.
You know, christians might callthat we would call that heaven,
of course, but I think, yeah,that's the thing.
Just dig deeper.
Care Really, truly care aboutwho you're dealing with.
I think you can't fake that.
You got to really have that inyou.
If you don't and you're justafter the money you can still be
(42:09):
successful, but you'll never behappy.
Your clients will never behappy.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yes, I love it.
Genuine, authentic care, whichI think across the board now is
we're figuring that out is howto be more authentic and
genuinely care about it.
What's the best way to reachyou, kelly?
If someone wants to bring youon the podcast or just wants to
reach out to you, what's themost effective way to reach you?
Speaker 3 (42:27):
You know, I tell you what.
The easiest way to reach me ismy email.
At my current position, whichI'm vice president of sales for
High Ticket Teams, which iskshaw at high ticket teamsio.
Okay, I'll also send you myother email, which we've kind of
slowed that part of thebusiness down, but it's kelly,
at kingdom sales academycom, butwe've shut down our website.
(42:50):
That email is still activebecause I have a lot of clients
that still contact me throughthat email and it's forwarded to
all my other emails.
But I'll get you both and I'llget you the link to the free
download of the book, because alot of the stuff we talk about
how to get your customersfrothing at the mouth, how to
promote an opening nightperformance, how to, you know,
build those deep relationshipsit's all covered in the book and
(43:12):
the book's really probably moreabout mindset than anything
else, but I think that's thething that helped me.
I went to a Tony Robbins eventin the 80s and I learned a
technique that he does a lot,which is getting your chi
together, and I remember my jobwas to go door to door basically
selling financial services.
I would go into a home and walkout with a check for $500,000.
(43:34):
And I only know those peoplefor three hours.
So you got to be a damn goodsalesperson and build pretty
good rapport to do that and havea good reputation.
But I learned, and I'll sharethis with every salesperson when
you're doing something forsomebody, you don't thank them.
I saw myself, before I'd walkin the home, coming out the door
, shaking their hand and sayingcongratulations.
(43:56):
I set my intention up frontCongratulations.
I'm going to enjoy working withyou guys over the next 10 to 20
years, right, yes, thatmindset's different than I'm
selling somebody something.
It's I'm here to help them andI'm here to serve.
So when I do that, it'scongratulations, you made a
great deal.
I'm looking forward to workingwith you.
(44:19):
So yeah.
So just get ahold of me at KShaw at high ticket teamscom,
fractional management, and weknow how to hire, train and
motivate salespeople.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yes, I love it.
Thank you for sharing so muchyou know and we will get, as you
put out, the podcast for all ofour listeners.
You have all of our contactinformation.
Thank you for staying with usand joining us on this podcast,
again for everyone that'sfollowing and listening.
And until next time, callie andI will sign off and we look
forward to working with you orhear from you in the future.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron unpacks sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
matter.
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host
leadership consultant, ronHarvey of GlobalCore Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, ron.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Harvey, good afternoon.
This is Ron Harvey, the vicepresident of Chief Operating
Officer of Global CoreStrategies and Consulting, which
is a leadership firm, and wespend all of our time working
with leaders to really help themhone in on their skills to take
better care of their teams.
You know, at the end of the day,if you want to like sum it up,
we do that through coaching, wedo it through training, we do
(00:38):
that through a lot of differentmethods, but our primary goal is
just to make the people thatlead better for the people that
they do lead.
What I do every day in thatspace is nice, but we pause and
do a podcast where we inviteguests from around the world
with all different backgrounds,all different skill sets, books
and programs and tools andtechniques that you can use, and
I love it because there's somany perspectives that our
(01:00):
guests share with you every timethey come on.
So I'm excited to have on uswith Kelly Shaw.
He's going to introduce himselfand tell you a little bit about
he did.
Of course, you know we're goingto unpack and have fun.
So, kelly, welcome to the stageand thank you for saying yes
without any questions in advance.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
My pleasure, ron, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it and youknow it's always better when you
just free, free flow and youknow you don't have any scripted
questions or scripted answers.
So hey, let's do it yes, man.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So let's dive in.
Man.
I mean, we were in the greenroom, so for all you know that,
you know you get to see theclean version of this.
But we were.
We were working throughchallenges.
I couldn't hear kelly.
I said, okay, man, just log out, come back in, we'll figure it
out.
So we're here, we made it andyou're just coming back from
Spain.
I mean, so you travel a lot andyou get to do it.
How is Spain?
I mean, what do you enjoy?
I mean you travel there twice ayear.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, we go at least twice a year for about six to
eight weeks at a time.
This year I don't know if we'regoing to go twice or three
times.
We go to a music festival everyJuly in Madrid called Mad Cool,
which is really a fun,three-day, beautiful festival.
I went to Coachella 19 years ina row, but 22 was my last year,
so 19 years.
I wanted to go to 20, but themusic lineup didn't work for me.
(02:14):
And then we discovered Mad Cooland we've been going there now
for three years.
Yeah, we love Spain, we love theculture, we love the people, we
love the history.
You know we travel Europe a lotand we decided to buy a place
in Spain.
So we actually have a smalllittle two-bedroom condo that
was built in 1870.
(02:34):
Wow and was remodeled in a towncalled Malaga, which is this
old Moorish town that's got ahuge castle that's very famous,
and it's about a block from ourhouse, actually.
And, um, one of our neighborsis a guy named antonio banderas.
He just lives one block overand one block down and has a
(02:55):
really nice restaurant called elpimpy.
That's really fun to go to.
But there's so many placesthere's where live within a
10-minute walk in any direction.
There are 300 bars andrestaurants.
Wow.
Like we don't have a car whenwe live there.
Like we can't even walk.
We walk everywhere, wow 1870.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, wow, there's a lot of history in that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Man, you think about 1870.
I mean, most of the West wasn'teven built by then.
Really, it was getting out ofthe Civil War.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yes, 1870.
Wow, still standing solid.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Still standing and solid.
Not really sure about theelectrical or the plumbing from
time to time, but the buildingitself is good.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I'm sure that's been upgraded or updated, but it's
probably still need more.
So I mean, even when you thinkabout the work that we do, you
think about, you know, legacyand long lasting.
We do a lot of leadership here.
When you think of your journeyand how you got to doing the
work that you do, what made youlean into leadership?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
You know, years ago I was mentored when I got into.
So next month not February, butMarch it'll be 50 years in
sales and I continue to learn.
I was very fortunate I wastrained by old school sales
trainers that talked aboutserving first, doing the right
thing for the client, making ita great experience, and how to
(04:22):
develop a clientele that israbid for you, your service,
your product, your company,whatever.
So I was very fortunate Iwasn't trained in any of the
sales gimmicky techniques thathave been out there.
So by going through like, I'vebeen through a lot of management
training and I went throughmanagement training in college
when I came out of the MarineCorps and I think I got a lot of
(04:44):
my leadership style from theMarines.
I was very fortunate.
I went in 1970 as a 17-year-oldand there are some bad leaders
and then I was fortunate to havea couple of good ones and then,
of course, studied greatmilitary leaders throughout my
life and I think they all have alot of great things in common.
(05:06):
Now I specialize, of course, inthe sales aspect.
So I've been going in now since1978.
My job has kind of been a hiredgun to go in and turn around
retail.
Now it's really easy to turnaround a retail operation One.
Most companies don't know howto hire the right salespeople
(05:28):
and typically a lot of companieswill have one or two
salespeople that are supposedlyhigh performers, but they create
so much chaos and so muchanxiety in the rest of the
workforce and in the back officethat it's just not worth it to
have them around.
When people really dig into theKPIs, they realize that they
can get make more money and havea much smoother run operation
(05:52):
with a lot more camaraderie ifthey were to hire just really
good salespeople that understandthe value of quality versus
quantity.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Let's unpack that for a second, though.
And, kelly, I mean you'rehitting on some things that are
super important.
I mean I tell people sales isinvolved in everyday life, all
day.
Nothing happens untilsomething's sold is what I tell
people.
Correct, it's just the realityof it.
When you think about KPIs forpeople that are listening, that
are into sales and that probablynever, ever tie KPIs to sales,
(06:25):
what are some KPIs for sales?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, let me give you an example.
I just wrote an articleyesterday.
I went back to I was doing whatwas called a dealer 20 group.
I was kind of a fractionalmanager.
I would go in, just dealer 20group.
I had all these Toyota dealers,large Toyota dealers, and one
of my clients was Elway Toyotaand Elway Honda and Demi-Cola.
(06:48):
I was flying once a month anddo some work.
But in this dealer 20 group Ihad a dealer come in and I said,
hey, listen, when you come in,I want you to bring some
homework, I want you to tell mewho your top two performers are
and give me some of theirnumbers, give me your KPIs and
then tell me who you're about tofire or you just fired, and get
(07:08):
me their KPIs.
So he had two reps he wasreally proud of.
They sold about I don't know alittle over 30 cars a month each
right.
So decent the profit we'll callit profit.
The revenue was about $1,000per vehicle sold.
So between the two of them theygenerated about $60,000 to
$66,000 in profit a month.
The dealer was ecstatic.
(07:29):
He thought these were likegreat.
I said well, how many clientsdid they see he goes?
I don't know, I go.
Well, do you track that?
He goes?
Yeah, somewhere I go.
Well, who keeps track of that?
He told me the person's name.
I said let's make a phone call.
But I don't know if this isgoing to work.
But I said let's make a phonecall.
(07:51):
We called the office managerand the sales manager and these
two guys had seen 600 clients.
This is a big volume dealership.
So I said, okay, so they'reseeing 600 clients, they're
selling 60.
They got a 10% close ratio.
You think that's good.
Let's talk about the guy youwere going to fire.
Now why didn't you fire him?
Well, the guy took another dayoff.
He takes days off all the time.
I'm really irritated.
I go, so he takes days off.
(08:11):
How many cars did he sell?
15.
Oh, cool, so he sells 15, abouthalf of what the other guys do.
What was his profit margin pervehicle?
Well, it was a little over$1,100, $1,200 on the front end,
but about a little over $1,100,$1,200 on the back end.
So actually it was about $2,000per car.
So in seeing Les Ben, he onlysaw 97 clients, but he sold 15
(08:39):
cars.
I go, that's almost a 30% closeratio.
He made 50% as much profit asthe other guy who sold twice as
many cars.
And I go, that's almost a 30%close ratio.
He made 50% as much profit asthe other guy who sold twice as
many cars.
And I go, if you were to takethose other 500 clients those
guys saw and you were to replacethem with one more of him,
(08:59):
right, yes, you would actuallysell, and I forget the number of
cars but the gross profit wouldbe over $220,000 a month more
than it was making right now.
He immediately fired those twoguys.
We put in a plan to hire theright guys and I said look, this
guy's taking time off, he'sspending time with his family.
Your office manager loves him,your finance manager loves him,
(09:22):
your sales manager loves him.
The guys you fired they haven'tgotten one repeat sale in two
years.
They haven't gotten onereferral and they've never
received a five-star rating.
A lot of threes, a lot of twos,a few ones and some people
saying if there was zero, Iwould give them a zero.
But your other guy who you'regoing to fire was getting
(09:48):
five-star reviews.
Repeat customers when you get arepeat customer, you're not
paying additional money for thatat sale.
When you're getting referrals,you're not putting any money out
.
What gets you repeat customersand sales is the quality of the
relationship you know likebetween your salesperson and
(10:08):
they build your reputation.
These other guys are tearingyour reputation down.
I tell companies all the time.
I work with a company calledHigh Ticket Teams.
We help businesses recruit,hire, interview, train 1099
salespeople.
That's our primary thing.
And we tell all the time, likeone salesperson, untrained who's
(10:32):
not doing ethical things canruin your reputation that you've
built 20, 30 years as a companyIs it really worth it?
When I used to do hiring, Iused to tell businesses like
look, I believe in multiple stepinterviews, group interviews,
group interviews, not only withthe salespeople that we're
thinking about hiring, but whenthey come in for a live
(10:53):
interview, there's a couple ofus looking at this person and we
get to see how they performunder pressure.
And I tell people all the timelook, if you wouldn't have them
over to your house at dinner andwalk out of the room or run
outside and leave them with yourwife and kids or your husband
and kids or just your kids, whywould you want to hire them Like
(11:13):
?
That makes no sense to me.
They're the lifeblood of yourbusiness.
You know there's high qualitysalespeople or a culture that
rewards quality is reallyimportant.
In my career I've been veryfortunate.
I got hired by AMF Bayliner toturn a dealership around in the
(11:34):
90s.
I was going bankrupt.
It was literally three monthsaway from going out of business
Wow, and in 12 months I turnedit to number one in the world.
Now I will tell you I don'tknow a thing about boats, except
the pointy end goes forward,that's it.
I don't know anything else.
Here's what I did know afterspending a week in the
dealership.
(11:54):
People buy boats for really kindof three Fs Friends, family and
fun.
Or fun with friends and family.
Yes, that's it.
They don't buy them becauseboats are really kind of a black
hole to put money into.
So we just sold fun withfriends and family and we we
sold so many boats we had.
(12:15):
You know, we went from almost a0% finance penetration rate to a
hundred percent not quite ahundred, but close to it.
And then, but our finance, ourpenetration for warranty, was a
hundred percent because I wasn'tgoing to let anybody walk out
that door, because I know boatsbreak down all the time without
a five-year warranty on it.
So bumper, we'll call it bumperto bumper.
Boats don't have bumpers.
(12:36):
Stand to stern, stand to stern,and then it was like to get the
culture and the businesstogether.
You know, you had to make itfun, you had to make it
competitive, you had to makepeople believe that you believed
in them, trusted them.
And it was an old principle ofFord Motor Company that, as a
(13:06):
manager, your job is to trainthe people under you to take
over when you're not there.
And the ship should run as goodor better than when you're
there.
And if it's running better,you've done your job.
Now you can move up or move on,and I used to tell people when
I ran financial servicesbusiness my job is to train you
to become independent.
(13:27):
I want you to become a high,high, high, six-figure, maybe
even seven-figure salesperson.
But I want you to grow, and Iwant you to grow with this
company.
When it's time to spread yourwings, let me help you.
That's when you create theright culture in a business.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yes, you said a couple of things I'd like to
unpack, Kelly.
I mean I'm going to lean backin and go back a ways forward.
You talk about the value ofrelationships and you think of
sales and time relationships.
Can you unpack how valuerelationships, regardless of
your degree or your titles, thevalue of having a very ethical,
great relationship and getrepeat customers?
(14:04):
How do you build a very goodrelationship?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well, when I started my financial firm, I think, when
I'm working, when I'm talkingand I try to train this whenever
I do sales training it's likelook, selling isn't doing
something to somebody, it'sdoing it for somebody.
So if it's the right thing todo, I want to make sure that
(14:28):
they purchase either my productor my service.
But I know that if I'm doing myjob right, this isn't going to
be the first sale I ever makethem.
So I got to do it ethically, soI can sleep at night.
But once they buy it, eventhough sometimes it's not the
salesperson's responsibility todo the follow-up, why wouldn't
you, why wouldn't you make surethat whatever you sold them,
(14:50):
whatever they purchased let'suse that word whatever they
purchased, are they using itproperly?
Are they using it to theiradvantage?
Are they taking advantage ofwhat it could do for them?
A lot of salespeople sellproducts or services that can be
life-changing for a lot ofpeople, particularly in the
financial services world, in themedical field, in the health
(15:10):
and wellness field.
Goodness, I mean, I'm 71 yearsold, a little 72.
And the other day I did 243pushups in five sets.
My body's, my temple right.
So if you're in a business ofselling health and wellness.
You want to make sure that in abusiness of selling health and
wellness, you want to make surethat people are doing it, doing
it right, doing it all for theright reasons.
I've been in financial services30 years.
(15:30):
I retired eight, maybe almost10 years ago now and my clients
won't let me go.
You know you've got and you'vedone and you've built the
relationships when you haveclients that actually will call
you because they value youropinion.
I get calls sometimes fromclients that I've had and they
go hey, kelly, I'm thinkingabout buying this car.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Let me Google that.
Yes, where are you looking?
Let me make a phone call foryou to the car dealer.
I know a bunch of car dealers.
I was in the business.
I can get you a good dealwithout playing any games.
Tell know a bunch of cardealers.
I was in the business.
I can get you a good dealwithout playing any games.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou're looking for, what you
want.
I'll find the internet manageror the sales manager or the GM
or the GSM and I'll book anappointment for you to go in and
(16:16):
see them and take care of it.
Now, do I get paid for that?
Well, I don't get paidmonetarily, but I do get paid in
the fact that I know my clientstrust and love me and they will
never buy a financial productfrom anybody else.
Even though I'm not necessarilylicensed anymore my wife is, so
we do everything through hername.
But that's when you know whenyou've got raving fans.
(16:37):
Raving fans are what everybusiness is all about.
I mean, I hate to use Amazon asan example, but I got to tell
you I rarely ever have a problemwith Amazon.
I don't first thing, I think, tobuy something.
I go there why I get treatedright.
You know the same thing withbars and like bars, restaurants.
(16:58):
You go to a place you like, youget good quality food, but they
treat you a little special.
You know like, oh hey, good tosee you.
A little special.
You know like, oh hey, good tosee you again.
Kelly, know your name, yeah,know your name, know your face.
And you know, hey, haven't seenyou guys in a while.
You've been traveling.
Again I go, oh yeah, you know,it's like you want to go back
there.
It's kind of like cheers.
Hey, it's a place you want tobe and I think a lot of
(17:23):
businesses, a lot of businessowners, or we'll call it upper
management I don't think theyreally know how to create that
culture.
A lot of upper management.
Sometimes they manage from fearor with an iron ruler.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Can you speak to that one, kelly?
I mean because if you're insales or you're in any
organization, there's somemetrics and metrics can get in
the way of you're chasing thatdollar amount or you're tracing
this quota or you're tracingwhat your boss is saying.
Can they get in the way?
You know, managers canoftentimes say I've got to meet
these results and it's going tobe by any means necessary, even
at the cost of destroying somerelationships.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I think I was just getting ready to write an
article on actual leadership andone of the problems is what's
called psychological safety andtrust.
You know, if you're, I try totell salespeople, like never
think about the sale, neverthink about the money.
Think always about doing theright thing.
(18:21):
Sometimes you have to turn downbusiness to do that, but you've
got to have a game plan.
Yeah, we, you have to turn downbusiness to do that, but you've
got to have a game plan.
Yeah, we all have to hitcertain metrics.
But as a manager, it's not ourjob to get down on somebody.
It's like okay, listen, yournumbers are low.
So what typically happens is welook at numbers at the end of
the month and say it's kind oflike doing your taxes after
(18:44):
January.
You need to do your taxplanning in October.
You need to sell your loserstocks and if you love them so
much, buy them back in January,but take advantage of the
write-offs or whatever.
You got to do your planning inNovember, october, not January.
It's already after the fact,and a lot of managers, business
owners, look at sales after thefact.
(19:07):
It's at the end of the month.
What happened?
Well, you need to come up withsome sort of metrics or, you
know, safety rails.
There was a message in Cherksthis week safety rails, which I
get.
You know, I used to use thatanalogy of would you ever walk
across the Golden Gate Bridgewithout those side rails and I
(19:28):
was like, oh hell, no, I ain'tgoing close to that bridge,
that's way down there, it's likehigh street.
But I remember as a salespersonmyself, if I wanted to sell
we'll say 30 of something, Iknew that most of my sales were
going to come probably close tohalf in the last 10 days, but to
(19:48):
at least be ahead of schedule.
If I could sell half of thoseby the 15th of the month, that
means I'd have to sell seven,maybe by the 7th of the month or
the 8th of the month or the 9th.
I would keep track of mymetrics and then I would try to
analyze each one.
One thing I learned in themilitary when you go out in
(20:11):
combat you come back, youdebrief right Like what went
right, what went wrong, what thehell went wrong, why did it go
wrong and how can we avoid thatfrom happening in the future?
So I learned a technique yearsago.
So I would take salespeople out, train them in the field live
and I would have them watch methe first few times and I'd let
(20:32):
them a little by little kind oftake over.
Then I would let them run thewhole show.
But what happened is, when Iwas doing it, I would come out
and say, okay, so, bob, what didyou think I did really well in
that?
What did you think I did, okayit?
I would come out and say, okay,so, bob, what did you think I
did really well in that?
What did you think I did?
Okay, but I could probablyimprove on what do you think I
didn't do very good that Ishould be aware of that.
(20:52):
Maybe next time I can do better.
And was there anything I didthat you think hindered or hurt
the sale that I want to avoidnext time?
And that would get some reallygood dialogue going.
So they're now interviewing meand you got to have thick skin
because they're going to seethings.
Maybe you didn't see when youwere in there.
Now, I always close deals.
So even if I did some stuffwrong, I still close the deal.
(21:14):
But when they would do it, Iwould do the same thing.
I always started with thepositive what do you think you
did right.
Sometimes they would think theydid a lot of stuff really right
.
I would have to disagree, but Iwouldn't.
I would say, yeah, I think youdid most of that pretty good.
What do you think you couldhave improved upon?
And I work on the things theycould have improved upon, and
(21:34):
then we kind of dissect it andthen we mentioned I'll ask them
what do you think you did thatprobably hindered you from
making that sale?
And then we would work on that.
And I didn't wait till the endof the month to go back over
their 40 clients.
Like I did that on a weeklybasis.
We would have a week.
Hey, you went out and saw eightclients this week.
(21:56):
They had $2.4 million inavailable money.
Well, I would ask them how muchmoney they were in front of
them.
They'd say about $600,000.
I'd go well, it's actually 2.4.
Why did you think you were onlyin front of $600,000 versus 2.4
?
Well, they had this, they had arelationship with the banker,
they had this, they had that,and I'd go those are all excuses
(22:17):
, you were still in front of 2.4.
And then we'd go like, what'dyou say?
What'd you do?
Blah, blah, blah.
And it's the first 90,.
It depends on the industry.
The first 90 days, everybodyneeds a lot of handholding, and
I learned something many yearsago that a kick in the butt is
six inches away from a pat onthe back, and all sales staffs
(22:39):
need a little bit of both.
To what degree?
How much?
What percentage is differentfrom person to person, and if
you're not the person to pat himon the back and lightly kick
him in the butt, you need to putsomebody in there who can, who
is doing it for all the rightreasons, not just yelling and
screaming at him because theydidn't hit their freaking quota.
(23:00):
If they didn't hit their quota,it's your job as management,
because you didn't put thethings in place to help them
achieve those things.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Wow, a lot of great nuggets and hopefully people are
jotting down.
I mean, because if you're insales and the information that
Kelly's dropping, you should betaking notes and probably, you
know, at the end of this year Iwant his email address or
contact you know.
So, when you think about salesand people that are in it
outside of their own attitude,what's the thing that gets most
(23:30):
people caught up?
So I love the idea that salesis service and it's not what
you're doing to people, is whatyou're doing to help people.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
What's the biggest object?
Because most of us we thinksales.
We think here comes a slicktalker, fast talker, want to get
paid, want to continue to getwealthy off of me or going to
take advantage of me.
And how do you help if I'm asalesperson?
Get over that perception ofsalespeople.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Well, I don't know if you're familiar with the GIF
profile or the Colby, yeah.
So I'm a 10 quick start onColby, me and Dan Sullivan.
We're like herd and catch.
It's a little challenging.
My wife is also a 10 quickstart.
We're a hot mess and in thedisc I'm a very fast-paced
(24:16):
people-oriented.
So I train a lot of people totry to understand disc, not only
to understand their clients alittle bit better, but most
importantly to understandthemselves and their pace and
focus.
So I did pretty well withengineers.
It's because I knew to slowdown and not get friendly, be
(24:37):
very blunt and to the point,professional, which is not my
normal style, by the way.
But I also knew I couldn't usebig language.
It's the best.
It's like hey, here's whatso-and-so said.
Hey, if you go to this magazine, you go to this article or if
you do research, you know,google this and here's what
(24:58):
you're going to find out.
I would always have printedcopies with a lot of highlight
stuff and I would always operateunder the assumption that that
person probably knows as muchabout my product as me.
Just be flat to the point andbe professional.
They're going to go and dotheir research.
Don't push them.
They're not going to buy.
You try to push them BoomS-style personalities.
(25:19):
I just got to talk up.
I got to slow down still.
I got to talk about the family,the future, who's going to take
care of them, how it's going towork.
Maybe you should sell themsomething with a warranty how to
actually do all that.
So I'm going to talk a littleabout the future.
But these, that are thedominant personality.
I'm just going to get to thepoint, not be overly friendly,
but I got to move fast becausethey're like give me the facts,
(25:40):
I want them yesterday and let meget the hell out of here and
I'll make my decision.
So you got to give them alittle bit of control.
You got to at least let themthink they are in control and
you got to boost their ego alittle bit With eyes.
You just got to quit having toomuch fun talking too much and
ask them to buy.
They'll buy.
Then you can continue to havefriends and go to happy hour
after the sale.
So when I was, I think, reallystarting to get really good at
(26:05):
sales, I would kind of studylike, what do people really
think about salespeople?
And I wanted to give adifferent persona.
So I did everything I could.
Now, one of the things I did Ididn't need glasses.
But I remember telling mygirlfriend many years ago I go
hey, you're applying for thisjob with this big company, pull
(26:30):
back your hair into a ponytail,put on glasses.
She goes I don't wear glasses,I don't care, it'll make you
look really professional, it'llmake you look more studious and
you're overly excitable.
So when you go in there, calmthe hell down, talk slower.
And she got this incredible jobbecause this person thought she
was one of the most intelligentpeople, smartest people she
ever met.
And I did the same thing Iwould wear glasses and when I
(26:53):
would greet people, I wouldn'tbe overly excited.
People say in sales you shouldbe really excited.
Well, excitement comes from thegreatest sale ever made, which,
by the way, is the name of mybook.
Yes, that's available for allyour podcast people for free.
Um, it's about the sale youmake to yourself, about you as a
person, what you can deliver tothe client, your product, your
(27:17):
service and your company.
And if it's the right product,service, you're the right
salesperson.
You, you've got the rightcompany.
You owe it to them to close itand to make sure they're
utilizing it properly.
So I hope I answered yourquestion.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I kind of got off on a roll.
Yeah, you did.
Yeah, For the audience.
I mean, you do have a book andit's out.
So how do people get to yourbook?
I'm going to give a couple ofthem.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, you'll have a link here and it should be in
the bottom of your stuff herepretty soon.
But, yeah, they can follow thatlink.
Give us their name, email andthen they'll be able to download
the book.
And then there's a biggerversion of that book coming out
where we're going to a lot moreleadership, a lot more team
building, how to build dynamicteams that are cohesive, they're
fun, they're empowering and howto empower teams to do the work
(28:02):
.
And that book will be comingout in about five months and
everybody who downloads mycurrent book will get a free
version of that when it comesout, so they don't have to worry
about buying either one ofthose.
Awesome, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So, kelly, as people are listening, and definitely
for the sales professionals thatare out there, you've managed
to do it really really well.
What are some reasons forpeople that, if they want to
reach you, what are some thingsthat's happening for them and
how can you help them?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Well, you see, I'm talking to an individual person
and maybe they're struggling.
Whatever I mean one, I'm a goodlistener.
At least I believe I'm a goodlistener most of the time.
My wife sometimes may not agree, but I try, I really try, you
try, yeah, but I think in my 50years and probably 45 of that
being in management, maybe thewhole 50, actually almost the
(28:52):
whole 50, all except for two orthree I've been able to actively
get involved with helpingsalespeople by listening, by
giving them some anecdotes, bymaybe giving them some
alternatives.
I'm really good when I'm insales and talking to people
about their presentations, aboutverbal cues, body language,
(29:15):
tonality, verbal pacing, how toask the right questions, like
how to use their facialexpressions.
I was very fortunate, I think81, 82,.
I took an acting class so Icould get better at sales and
that really helped me use mybody language, my facial
expressions, to get certainpoints across without being
(29:36):
verbose.
I can help a lot of people withtheir mental attitude.
I can help them with scripting,like, if you go into a room
with 5,000 salespeople and youask how many people like scripts
, I think you're going to findthat 4,900 hate them, yes, but
the 100 that like them wereprobably some of the higher
achievers.
(29:57):
And I was in a room the otherday.
I was in Philadelphia on Friday, yeah, and I asked this room
and I was on a Zoom.
I had a room full ofsalespeople for Thrivent
Financial and a big Zoom roomand I asked how many people like
scripts?
And like, every one of themkept their hand up.
I go.
So how many people hate scripts?
Everybody put their hand up andI said well, how many of you
(30:19):
were born in the U S?
What language are you born?
Speaking English, english,english, english, english.
I go, ds.
You weren't born speaking adamn word.
You didn't say mama or dad atuntil you were probably five,
six, eight, nine months old.
And some of y'all talk funnyman, like some lit soda.
Or from you, you guys like fromMinut Soda.
(30:39):
Or from you, you guys fromPhilly, I got to tell you.
Or you know, there's a coupleof y'all from the South.
Y'all have different actions.
Those are your scripts, I go.
I know salespeople have scriptsthat are worth 50 grand a year.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
It's the English language, it's the same damn
words.
It's how they're positioned andhow you internalize it.
I've got friends that literallymake $100,000 a freaking month,
month in, month out.
They're between $1, $1.2, $1.3,$1.5 million as 1099
salespeople.
Why?
(31:14):
They have better scripts and Ilearned a long time ago to
internalize something.
So I'll tell you a short story.
When I got hired in financialservices, this guy hired me to
sell annuities and he goes youthink you can sell annuities?
And I go oh yeah, my ego says Ican sell anything.
And I go what's an annuity?
He gives me literally 15minutes of training, kicks my
(31:38):
butt out the door to go sell amovie and I sold a couple.
I don't know how, but I did.
I come back and go dude, let mefollow you for a week.
I want to go on the road withyou because you're a beast.
Now understand this is a rideor down for your audience.
Yes, success leads crumbs andclues.
So does failure.
Too many people pick up theclues and the crumbs of failure.
(32:00):
So I followed this guy for aweek and then back in the day
and of course I recorded a lotof calls and I recorded myself
practicing, drilling andrehearsing military background
and my wife walked by my officeone day.
It was in the home and I setappointments the Saturday, the
week before I would go out.
My territory was from NorthernCalifornia all the way through
(32:23):
Bisbee, arizona, all the waydown past Tucson.
And she goes when did you startstuttering?
I go, I don't stutter, she goes.
You were just stuttering I go.
No, I wasn't, she goes.
You were, I go, I was not.
I go.
No, I wasn't, she goes.
You were, I go, I was not.
She goes.
Listen to the tape.
So I rewound the tape and Iwent.
Oh, that's where Paul, my mentor, stuttered every time he was in
(32:48):
the sales presentation.
I don't know if he did it onpurpose, but I found myself
after a week of traveling withhim, internalizing all his great
habits.
Right, that's what everybodyshould do Get a mentor that you
want to be like, who's achievedwhat you want to achieve and do
(33:08):
what they do.
And honestly, for like fouryears of being on the road, I
actually stuttered almost everytime at that spot.
I don't know why it was, just Iinternalized it so much I
couldn't get out of it.
But he had a script that closeda huge amount of deals.
Now he also had a really highfallout ratio.
(33:30):
So I had to take his script,put it with my personality,
internalize it in a manner thatworks with me.
Still basically the same 85%probably and then I was able to
close almost as much as him.
But at the end of the monthmine all stuck together.
His didn't, and mine created nogrief in the company.
(33:53):
His did.
He's my boss, don't get mewrong.
He was great.
He still accomplished greatthings.
I just did a better job becauseI did what he did, but I
fine-tuned it to me and mypersonality.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Love it.
I mean phenomenal.
I love that you say find amentor.
So if you're listening andyou're paying attention to what
Kelly and I are talking about,you should have a mentor,
someone that's ahead of youseveral paces, that's doing well
and has achieved what you'retrying to achieve and figure out
what it is that they're doing.
I mean, and that's in every,regardless of where you are,
what industry, you know whatyou're doing find a mentor.
(34:28):
It's one of the greatestinvestments you can do is find
someone ahead of you that'sgoing to help you become great.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Absolutely, and you know, the funny thing is, ron,
is that people that are reallysuccessful they want to help you
yes, it's people that arestruggling or they're afraid
you're going to beat them willnot help you.
Insecure, very insecure Peoplethat have made it.
They've been there.
Maybe they've been there two orthree times.
Maybe they've been there andfailed and they build themselves
back up.
(34:53):
They want to help and if youcan't find a mentor, get into a
mastermind group.
I used to help set up mastermindgroups for financial services
industry.
That's a way in the carbusiness.
They're called D or 20 groups.
Today you got to probably spendmoney to be in a mastermind,
but it's worth it.
If you think about what Jim Rohnsaid many years ago so many
(35:14):
other people have said this andit might even be in the Bible
you are the accumulation of yourfive closest friends, right,
the five people you hang outwith the most.
I went to a Dan Sullivanstrategic coach event many years
ago called the CouplesConference.
There are about 300 couples allhigh producers getting together
, sharing information and how tohave a great life and a perfect
(35:37):
life, and so the spouses orpartners could understand what
goes on in day-to-day business,because a lot of them don't
sometimes right, especially asmen.
We compartmentalize it.
How's everything?
Oh fine, let me just relax, nottalk about work.
And I learned that there aretwo types of people in the world
people that just drain energyout of you, and you know, when
you're around them, you'rearound them.
(36:03):
You're around them for an houror two and everything's negative
.
It's bitch, moan and complainand you leave there.
You're just drained.
But there's other people whenyou're around them, they give
you energy and excitement.
I have a buddy named SteveMcCarthy great guy, great
salesperson, and I trained himin financial services.
His previous company had failedbecause his business partner
took advantage of a lot of stuff, but he wanted to get back into
sales, just direct sales, andhim and I spent some time on the
(36:27):
road.
Great, great, great guy.
But when I'm around him, or himand his wife, we could talk for
like 10 hours, stay up allnight long and come up with at
least 20 ways to make the worlda better place.
And we're just.
From that point on, we're on amission and that's what we as
human beings have to surroundourselves.
You know, even Jesus surroundedhimself with a mastermind group
(36:49):
.
I think they were called theapostles.
Yes, pretty sure.
Yeah.
Jesus realized he couldn't dothis alone.
He needed 12 people to spreadthe word.
You know, in business I had 12clients that were my.
What do we call it?
We call it a special name, butwe invited 12 clients to be on
(37:10):
our board to meet four times ayear for a special dinner and
just talk about the business,talk about where we're heading,
what we're thinking about doing,get their ideas on our upcoming
holiday party gifts, I mean.
And they were our raving fans.
Some of those clients are 85,90 years old today.
I can't get rid of them, eventhough I kind of want to
(37:31):
sometimes, but they keep givingme money.
And that's building a greatbusiness when you have raving
fans that they consider you partof the business.
Let me give you an example, ron.
I have a client named FridaBarrett.
Frida's husband just died.
She's got to be 90-somethingfreaking years old, I don't know
(37:54):
.
She's way up there and she'sstarting to get dementia real
bad.
But her kids came to me andsaid hey, you do financial stuff
for my mom, can you do it forme?
Sure, and you know it's likewhatever you want, kelly, just
tell us what to do, we'll do it.
Okay.
Their kids, frida's grandkids,are coming to me saying, hey,
(38:16):
you took care of my parents andmy grandmother.
They said I should come to seeyou for financial advice.
Isn't that what we really wantfrom our business?
Is people out there you're notpaying money to that are
spreading the word?
It's like we all have ourfavorite restaurants we send
people to all the time Becausewhy?
We know they're going to getgreat food.
They're going to give uscompliments for sending them
there.
They're going to get taken careof.
(38:36):
Their staff is wonderful.
But do we get an affiliatecheck?
Nope.
Do we get a commission check inthe mail?
Nope, but we get paid bysatisfaction.
Right.
And as a business owner or uppermanagement, you want to build
that team not only sales, butthe whole, how every department
(38:57):
interacts, where you're allworking for the same goal, which
is to deliver the right productto the person or people, make
sure they take care of it.
They're raving fans and they'regoing to send you more business.
So that at some point I know mybusiness plan.
When I started financialservices I donate I had X number
(39:19):
of dollars a year I was goingto use for outgoing marketing to
attract new clients and eachyear I would drop that by 15 to
20% and devote that money toclient retention and at the end
of five years I didn't have tospend marketing money.
It was like so minimal.
Yet all the people I knew inthe industry were spending
$40,000 a month.
$30,000 a month and I'mspending like four, three and
(39:44):
getting the same results becauseI've got great word of mouth,
good reviews, repeat clients.
You have to put very minimalamount of money in for repeat
clients.
You just got to give them a lotof attention.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Awesome.
I mean really, really great.
Mastermind, as you talk about.
You know this podcast and youtalk about the work that you do
and masterminds and mentoring.
I think all great ideas.
As we come to a close, twothings I want to close out with
is what's the one piece ofadvice that I haven't asked you
about, that you haven't shared,that you would say here's a
golden nugget I want to leavewith you and share.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
That you would say here's a golden nugget I want to
leave with you and then we'lldo your contact information.
I was speaking at an event, ona panel, and a moderator asked
me a question.
They go, kelly, if you have oneword, one bit of nugget you
could give us right now to helpsalespeople change their
trajectory, what would it be?
And I go why she goes.
Well, I mean she expounds uponthat and I go why she goes.
(40:40):
Well, I mean she expounds uponthat and I go why.
And she goes.
Well, she was gettingfrustrated.
I go, the word is why.
And she laughed.
And I go.
Here's the deal.
Like, salespeople don't askenough questions, they don't dig
deeper.
You know, and I would say, as asalesperson, as a business
owner, as a manager, know thebig whys, whys of your employees
(41:03):
, whys of your clientele.
And as a salesperson, as abusiness owner, always ask the
question why?
Why today, you know, why isthat important to you?
How is that important to yourfamily?
Learn different ways of diggingdeeper, asking more questions.
I think, if you have thatnatural curiosity, I've been
very fortunate.
(41:24):
I don't know how I learned that.
Maybe it's just because I'malways interested, I love people
and I want to find out, but Ialso know that there's a reason.
Somebody's here and you knowthey don't have to be here.
They don't have to be talkingto me.
So why are they here?
What's really their pain point?
What's the bridge they'retrying to get across?
Get out of this hell, excuse me, and get over to this sunny
(41:47):
resort vacation area where lifeis grand.
You know, christians might callthat we would call that heaven,
of course, but I think, yeah,that's the thing.
Just dig deeper.
Care Really, truly care aboutwho you're dealing with.
I think you can't fake that.
You got to really have that inyou.
If you don't and you're justafter the money you can still be
(42:09):
successful, but you'll never behappy.
Your clients will never behappy.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yes, I love it.
Genuine, authentic care, whichI think across the board now is
we're figuring that out is howto be more authentic and
genuinely care about it.
What's the best way to reachyou, kelly?
If someone wants to bring youon the podcast or just wants to
reach out to you, what's themost effective way to reach you?
Speaker 3 (42:27):
You know, I tell you what.
The easiest way to reach me ismy email.
At my current position, whichI'm vice president of sales for
High Ticket Teams, which iskshaw at high ticket teamsio.
Okay, I'll also send you myother email, which we've kind of
slowed that part of thebusiness down, but it's kelly,
at kingdom sales academycom, butwe've shut down our website.
(42:50):
That email is still activebecause I have a lot of clients
that still contact me throughthat email and it's forwarded to
all my other emails.
But I'll get you both and I'llget you the link to the free
download of the book, because alot of the stuff we talk about
how to get your customersfrothing at the mouth, how to
promote an opening nightperformance, how to, you know,
build those deep relationshipsit's all covered in the book and
(43:12):
the book's really probably moreabout mindset than anything
else, but I think that's thething that helped me.
I went to a Tony Robbins eventin the 80s and I learned a
technique that he does a lot,which is getting your chi
together, and I remember my jobwas to go door to door basically
selling financial services.
I would go into a home and walkout with a check for $500,000.
(43:34):
And I only know those peoplefor three hours.
So you got to be a damn goodsalesperson and build pretty
good rapport to do that and havea good reputation.
But I learned, and I'll sharethis with every salesperson when
you're doing something forsomebody, you don't thank them.
I saw myself, before I'd walkin the home, coming out the door
, shaking their hand and sayingcongratulations.
(43:56):
I set my intention up frontCongratulations.
I'm going to enjoy working withyou guys over the next 10 to 20
years, right, yes, thatmindset's different than I'm
selling somebody something.
It's I'm here to help them andI'm here to serve.
So when I do that, it'scongratulations, you made a
great deal.
I'm looking forward to workingwith you.
(44:19):
So yeah.
So just get ahold of me at KShaw at high ticket teamscom,
fractional management, and weknow how to hire, train and
motivate salespeople.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yes, I love it.
Thank you for sharing so muchyou know and we will get, as you
put out, the podcast for all ofour listeners.
You have all of our contactinformation.
Thank you for staying with usand joining us on this podcast,
again for everyone that'sfollowing and listening.
And until next time, callie andI will sign off and we look
forward to working with you orhear from you in the future.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us everyMonday as Ron unpacks sound
advice, providing real answersfor real leadership challenges.
Until next time, remember toadd value and make a difference
where you are, for the peopleyou serve, because people always
matter.
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