February 17, 2025 • 34 mins
This episode centers on the vital role of leadership in navigating change and adversity, drawing on former CEO of Barnes & Noble, Stephen Riggio's extensive experience in the book-selling industry and his personal journey of grief and creativity. Listeners will gain insights on effective leadership practices, the importance of adapting to change, and the power of literature in shaping our identities.
• The journey of Barnes & Noble from a single store to a retail giant
• Understanding entrepreneurship as risk mitigation
• The emotional ties entrepreneurs face with their businesses
• The impact of grief on personal and professional transformation
• Celebrating Sicilian culture through literature and history
• The enduring relevance of physical bookstores in a digital world
• Encouraging personal growth through reading
Visit SicilianAvengers.com to learn more about the book, and to connect with Stephen.
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, good afternoon, or at least it's afternoon.
Where I am, I'm in Columbia,south Carolina.
Thank you for joining us.
This is Unpacked with RonHarvey, and this is the
opportunity where we pause anddo a lot of work with different
leaders from around the globe.
Our company really focuses onhelping develop leaders to be
more connected to theirworkforce.
At the end of the day, that'sbetter communication, that's
more trust, empowering people,delegating to people, allowing
(00:52):
people to be their best self inyour organization, which we
spend a lot of our time talkingabout leadership.
My wife and I own the company.
We're both veterans of the army, so we understand how important
leadership is that's continuedto serve our military services.
So we get to do it now in thepublic service or the private
service of our country, so welove doing it.
This podcast is all about ourleaders coming to the table and
(01:13):
having a conversation.
What we do promise is we'regoing to have a conversation
around leadership, but we goeverywhere.
We talk about books, we talkabout business, we talk about
what we're doing and exciting,so you'll hear that all from us.
What we do promise is we'llshare something around
leadership, so hang on with usfor 20 minutes 25 plus, as our
guests come on and they sharefrom really just who they are.
It's called Unpack.
They have fun.
(01:34):
They're pretty brave becausethey never know what the
questions are.
They just come on and have funwith us.
So I'm super excited If you doanything with Barnes and Nobles,
if you've ever done anything.
I'm super excited to have oneof the former CEOs, stephen,
joining us today from New YorkCity.
So let me hand the microphoneto Stephen and you can share
what you want to share aboutyourself.
Stephen.
I usually let all of our gueststalk about themselves or what
(01:54):
they're doing and what'shappening.
We'll go to some questions.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Sure, good morning, it's great to be with you.
I spent close to 40 years withBarnes Noble.
I spent close to 40 years withBarnes Noble, so I have a
lifetime of book sellingexperience.
Our company was founded with asingle store on Fifth Avenue in
Manhattan and through thedecades the 70s, 80s, 90s and
(02:21):
into the aughts we graduallyexpanded the company until we
had close to 700 stores by thetime I retired in 2012.
And it was an amazing career and, as you know, most people think
of Barnes Noble today for thosestores that are around the
country, in inner cities, insuburban shopping malls and
(02:41):
strip centers.
But we actually started with asingle store and it took many
years for us to test differentsize stores, different formats,
different approaches to bookselling and with each step we
became a little bit moreaudacious until we finally came
(03:02):
up with a formula that peoplethought came out of thin air and
it was unexpected and peoplesaid it would never work.
But it had actually undergonequite a bit of testing and quite
a bit of kicking the tires, ifyou will.
Until in the mid-90s we hadsort of perfected that concept
(03:24):
that we know of as today.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Wow yeah, as I was reading and the team gets
information in front of me, so Iknow who's on and some of the
history.
I look back at your family,where you come from, where it
started at, which we'll get into.
When you think about like mostof us do think, it came out of
nowhere and it showed up, butthere was a lot of work and you
think about people that arestarting entrepreneur and want
to run a business or in aleadership role, what are some
(03:47):
of the bigger challenges thatyou have to overcome if you're
going to take this journey ofleadership or entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, I think entrepreneurs are often
mischaracterized as risk takers.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
People that jump into something and take on risk, and
I think it's more proper todefine people who are
entrepreneurs as those whomitigate risk rather than engage
it, if you think about evensomeone with perhaps one of the
(04:21):
more riskier pursuits, which ismountain climbing.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I mean, those people are up there on the mountain and
they want to make sure that ifa piece of equipment fails, they
have plan B, and so they areprobably more involved in
mitigating their risks.
After all, they don't want tofall off the mountain.
And the same thing with anentrepreneur starting a business
(04:47):
.
They want to get a return ontheir investment, they want to
get a return on their capital,and I think you can't be
successful if you don't thingsthat are a little unusual, if
you don't break the mold, if youdon't try something different.
But you have to do it in a veryjudicious way and make sure
(05:07):
that you have a plan B and youalter your course of action
other than sticking to someemotional tie to your original
idea.
You need to evolve and be swiftand, in some cases, decisive in
changing direction.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I love that you said because entrepreneurs do get
stuck with their emotionalattachment.
I hear entrepreneurs always say, or often say, it's my baby.
I say that can be disablingbecause most people if it's
treated like a baby, doesn't getto grow and are you
overprotective sometimes.
So you know, I tell people whenyou think of it's your baby,
you may not let anyone else orwant anyone else to help raise
(05:48):
your baby or to make your babysmarter or faster or brighter or
more intelligent.
That emotional attachment canactually cripple you or be a
crutch that doesn't allow you togrow.
You're releasing books and youguys are in the business of
books.
What drew your family to?
Really that's where you startedand you figured it out, because
I've always believed books arewhere the seekers to life are at
(06:09):
.
But for your family and yougrowing up because you watched
your brother start the companyand you came in later what made
it fascinating about starting abook business known as Barnes
and Nobles today?
And I know that's not where youstarted, but what started it.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, our parents were second generation
Italian-Americans.
My father was a cab driver, mymother was a homemaker and, like
many second generation or firstand second generation
Italian-Americans, they wantedtheir children to be better.
So education and dedication anddetermination were very
(06:44):
important to them.
My brother, len, had workedearly in his career at a college
bookstore serving the NYUcommunity down here in New York
September.
When students came back to buytheir books he would see that
(07:06):
there were long lines to waitfor the books.
Some of the books weren't ontheir shelf and he got very
frustrated with that.
So he decided he could do abetter job and he opened the
store around the corner.
And he opened the store aroundthe corner and one of the
hallmarks of his success is thaton that first day of classes he
(07:32):
had every book on the shelf andon that first day of classes he
had enough cash registers toensure that the students
wouldn't have to wait in line.
So that kind of began hisreputation as someone that could
efficiently run a collegebookstore like never before.
(07:53):
And he went on to lease andmake contracts with other
college bookstores throughoutthe Northeast, most notably
Columbia University, and heshowed universities that he
could run their stores betterthan they could, and that's the
germ of how it started.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I mean I love that because you identify a
problem and say I know this canbe done better, I can figure it
out, and I think that's the partof if not necessarily,
risk-taking.
But you begin to say to say,okay, what can I mitigate or
minimize for people that areneeding this service?
So I love that idea.
Can you bring us up to speedwith where you decided after you
(08:33):
went to college and coming tothe business, and where did you
start?
Because you didn't start at ceo.
You had to work your waythrough the organization.
You had to develop some skillsand also your own identity.
How did you navigate that space?
Because most people struggle.
How do I work my way toleadership versus someone owes
me leadership?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Sure.
Well, I did start out in thecompany after graduating from
college and it was a smallcompany at the time.
So I did work in many differentpositions throughout the
company and saw it grow and hadincreasing responsibilities.
The company, and saw it growand had increasing
responsibilities, we did gopublic in 1993.
(09:13):
Actually, a few years beforethat I think.
At that time we had about 80bookstores and we were running
them.
Well, I had an executiveposition at that time, but we
purchased a larger company thathad 700 stores and so it was
called B Dalton Bookseller andthey were based in Minneapolis.
We were based in New York andone of the things that we did at
(09:36):
that time was we moved ourheadquarters to Minneapolis in
order to recognize theimportance of the people that
had built that company and thathad run that company for so many
years.
So that was a big jump for ourcompany and for me, and I think
(09:58):
that was probably the biggestleap that I had in executive
ability, because it was takingon something that was so much
larger in scale and scope.
We ultimately managed to movethe headquarters back to New
York and we went public in 1993.
So that was another biglearning curve, working in a
(10:19):
public company is very differentthan a private company as I'm
sure you know.
So that was another big learningexperience for me, and I was
ultimately appointed CEO in 2002.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
When I think about it , stephen, I mean you said
something that was huge forleaders to understand,
regardless of what industrythey're in.
It is understanding the valueof the people that did so much
to get it to where it was, andso making that major move out to
Minnesota and say, okay, great,we're going to get because we
value the people that are withthese 700 stores.
But you kept making the changesnecessary for you to be
successful, and I know we'regetting a lot of changes.
(10:55):
But how did you navigate somuch change at such a high level
over a period of time, for thegood of the company and the good
of the people?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I think you know, every company faces change on
the business side, on the socialside, on the culture side.
What we managed to do, whichwas quite extraordinary, yes.
In 1987, we had 700 small formatstores and zero large format
(11:24):
stores.
10 years later, we had almostzero small format stores and 700
large stores.
It was about 15 years.
So I think that speaks to thedetermination to grow.
But we did it judiciously.
(11:45):
We didn't open 700 storesovernight.
It was 10 one year, then 30,then 40, then 70.
And one year we opened close to100 stores.
So at each stage we weremonitoring what we were doing,
right or wrong.
Yes, growing a company thatlarge also meant taking care of
(12:07):
our people, and we were verymuch, I think, at the forefront
of the type of policies thathave almost become common in
American corporations.
We were the first majorcorporation to offer family
leave policy and we also offereddomestic partner coverage in
(12:28):
healthcare.
That was unheard of at the time.
What year was that?
Well, oh, that was in the latenineties.
We were listening to ouremployees.
Wow, I mean, you have to havethis dialogue with your
employees and always, healthcare, as you probably are aware, is
a very difficult thing tonavigate for many companies.
It's expensive, regulations arealways changing, what people
(12:52):
are expecting of healthcare isalways changing and in that case
I think we had a lot offoresight and we did something
that was good for our employees.
Some of our own executives atthe time had objected to it.
Yes, you know, why would we dothis?
It would be expensive or no oneelse is doing it.
(13:14):
Yes, you know, do we reallywant to be at the forefront?
And in some cases you do, somecases you don't.
Because even though you have Idon't like to call them
competitors, but, let's say,colleagues in the business world
other retailers, you do watchwhat they do when you learn from
them.
Yes, when you have competitors,you have to learn what they're
(13:35):
doing.
That you're not often and youhave to look at them with a
critical eye for what they'redoing best, not what you could
beat them at all the time.
Retailers are not enemycombatants.
We are all in the business ofserving our customers.
So I would always go into otherretailers and I wouldn't look
(13:57):
at what they're doing wrong, butwhat they're doing right, and
that's always a valuablelearning experience.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that too, stephen, because
oftentimes when you're anentrepreneur, especially a small
business, you look at people ascompetitors or combatants, and
we're all trying to do the bestcustomer service across the
board.
So I'm loving that you'resharing that, because when you
look at a company that went fromthe size that you were to what
you became, you still had thatin your mind that they're not
our competitors, we're notcompeting against them.
I do go and watch what they'redoing, and you said something
(14:24):
that's profound for everyonethat's listening.
Sometimes you look at whatthey're doing best and you may
not be able to beat them at it,but you got to pay attention to
what they're doing best so youcan learn from it.
And oftentimes we say, well, Igot to beat them.
You may not beat them, but youcan get better at how you do it.
So I love that you share that.
That's a nugget that you hearfrom someone that's been exposed
to it is doing it.
Let's talk about the book thatyou're releasing and the work
(14:47):
that you're doing and where itcame from.
So you're writing this book oryou're starting to translate it.
Let's put it that way, rightShare with the audience the book
that you're translating andwhat drew you to translate it
for us into English speakingaudience in the first place?
What drew you to do that?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, I could begin by saying that I had retired in
2012.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
In 2008,.
We had lost our daughter,melissa, after a year-long
battle she had with leukemia,and it was a tough time.
As I like to say, all happyfamilies are alike, but all
grieving families grieve intheir own way, to paraphrase
Tolstoy, and I was looking for away for my wife and I to move
(15:32):
forward.
I was looking to open a newdoor for us, find a way forward,
open a new chapter in our lives, and I came up with the idea of
studying the Italian languagetogether.
Now, I am of Italian descent,on my father's side Sicilian, so
I always had an interest in thelanguage.
(15:55):
I did study it earlier in life,but I had dropped it.
So it was the start of a newjourney for us, and a few years
into that journey, our professorgave us a book in Italian to
read and it looked verydifficult.
It looked very imposing.
It was a thousand pages and Ithought we would read one or two
(16:17):
or three chapters together.
But my wife and I became hookedon the story.
It's a hundred-year-old novel,very much in the vein of
Alexandre Dumas.
It's a swashbuckling adventurestory.
I had loved that type of storywhen I was a kid, so I was a
very heavy reader.
So we were reading it and Idecided to look for an English
(16:41):
translation to see how we weredoing, and I discovered it did
not exist.
So you know, we were talkingabout my career in bookselling
before and, as I say, we oftendid audacious things and I
thought let me try somethingaudacious in my retired life.
And, as a writer friend of minehas recently said to me, she
(17:04):
said Steve, how did you do this?
Most men retire and they takeup golf.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I don't play golf, so it was certainly a challenge
for me, but one that I enjoyed.
And I ultimately completed thetranslation and have published
it in two volumes, as you cansee Sicilian Avengers, book 1
and Book 2.
And while reading the book, asan interesting little tidbit,
(17:32):
the main character of the bookis an orphan.
And while I was researching,translating the book,
translating it, my wife and Imade four trips to Sicily and I
undertook a deep dive into myfamily's ancestry and traced it
back 400 years, oh my goodness.
And I discovered that mygrandfather was an orphan.
(17:56):
So I feel that I was destinedto translate this book.
All the pieces seem to come inplace.
As I say in theacknowledgements, it's my
deepest wish that this thingnever existed.
You know we came to thisbecause of the loss of our
daughter, but her presence in itis undeniable and it was almost
(18:22):
a gift that we were given.
So it was published last week.
It's two volumes.
It's very much in the vein, asI said, of Dumas.
It's an adventure story.
My wife Laura says it's gotsomething for everyone.
It's a love story, an adventurestory, a historical novel.
There's plenty of intrigue inthe book where characters are.
(18:46):
There's twists and turns whereyou don't know, perhaps, what's
going to take place.
And, interestingly, the book waswritten by Luigi Natoli.
He wrote 30 novels and theywere all written as serial
novels, like Charles Dickens didin the 19th century.
So he had a skill like onechapter would come out every few
(19:10):
days or every week.
So he had a particular skill inkeeping readers hooked and they
would await with bated breathwhat would happen next.
And he was also a scholar and ahistorian, so he was deeply
rooted in European and Sicilianhistory.
(19:32):
And there are fictionalcharacters in the book and
historical characters.
So it has a sense of it,breathes with believability and
reality, although it's fiction.
Reality although it's fiction.
And the thrust of the story forpeople that want to know is
that it's about a secret sect inSicily that existed in the
(19:55):
early 18th century, who somebelieve were forerunners of the
Sicilian mafia.
So that's the kind of intrigueand mystery about the story.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
When was the first story written?
How many years ago, because youwent back and you traced back
your family history over 400years.
But when is the first storywritten on Sicilian Avengers?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
The book was published in 239 installments
between 1910 and 1912 or 1911.
So you know it's a thousandpages.
So he had the skill, he was agreat writer.
And he was a teacher and ahistorian.
His books were later banned bythe Mussolini government because
(20:38):
he was an ardent anti-fascist.
By the Mussolini governmentbecause he was an ardent
anti-fascist.
Yes, he was very rooted in hisown belief, in a sense of
justice which is the heart ofthe story.
Where do people turn?
At the time of the novel,sicily was still a feudal
society.
Yes, and the power was in thehands of the barons, the
(21:00):
aristocrats.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yes, and the power was in the hands of the barons,
the aristocrats.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
The Inquisition, the Catholic Church's Inquisition,
was still in effect, so peoplewere jailed, tortured and
executed for heresy, and soNatoli took all of these threads
that were in the historicalrecord and weaved a novel around
it, because he had astorytelling gift.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I love that after retirement, you didn't go to the
golf course and dealing withgrief allowed it to become a
gift to you.
Like you say, everybody grievesdifferent and families go
through something different.
What's the story to someonethat may be listening that's
trying to navigate some of thelandscape you had to navigate
dealing with grief, and how doyou find yourself and find
something to keep you goingevery day?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well being in the book business, it was natural
for me to reach out and readmany of the books on grieving.
One could just go online andsearch for them and you get a
perspective from other writersof how they dealt with it.
But it's a hard thing to giveadvice to people about because,
(22:06):
as I said, it's something insideof you.
There's no textbook on how todeal with that and especially
with the loss of a child.
I think everyone grieves intheir way.
For me and for my wife, it wasimperative that we build, go
forward.
We have two other daughters andnow two grandchildren, so it
(22:29):
was imperative for us to moveahead and it just so happened I
was retired soon after not atthat time, but it almost gave me
a reason also to retire.
Yes, I was working for 40 years.
We lost a child.
What is the next phase of mylife going to be like?
(22:50):
And so, as I said, I'm nothappy that it turned out this
way.
I would have preferred adifferent path, but we're here
today and I'm happy that, in abittersweet way, she gave me
this gift.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yes, and thank you for your transparency Because I
think, as people, whether you'rein a leadership role or
formally or informally thatpeople are watching, people are
listening and they learn fromour journey and it'd be slightly
different, but they'll learnbecause you're speaking to
someone that's listening.
We started off about your rolewith Barnes Noble.
We go into.
You know you shared about theloss of a child, which I don't
think any parent wants to gothrough at all, and then you
(23:28):
talk about the book.
What do you want readers towalk away with from the fact
that you've translated this book?
What do you want them to getfrom the book?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
That's a great question.
I'm very aware as anItalian-American, as in a
Sicilian-American with deepancestry into the place where my
grandparents and ancestors camefrom, that Italian-Americans
and Sicilian-Americans have beenvictims of stereotypical
(23:55):
portrayals in the media.
Yes, and we know what those are.
Yes, tv series, movies and thelike, and what I want them to
come away with is a betterunderstanding of Sicilian
history.
The book is rooted in historyand to appreciate how it does
(24:17):
come through in the book a bit.
But if you become interested inSicilian history, you find out
that America, of course, is anation of immigrants.
Where I live, new York, is amelting pot, yes, but Sicily has
it beat on every front.
For 2,000 years.
Sicily was conquered, invadedand settled by Greeks, romans,
(24:42):
arabs, normans, byzantine Empire, the Spanish.
Yet it absorbed those culturesand you could see it when you go
to Sicily, or especially toPalermo, which is a wonderful
city.
You see it in the culture, inthe language there are many
Sicilian words that are rootedin Arabic you see it in the
(25:05):
buildings, you see it in thefood, you see it in the people.
It's an amazingly multicultural, diverse society and the other
thing I would like people to do,so have a different view of
Sicily than you know.
People say you're ItalianAmerican, they immediately think
mafia.
Yes, you know, and that'sterrible.
(25:26):
Yeah, the other thing I wantpeople to do is to finish the
book, close the last page andbuy a plane ticket to Sicily.
Yeah, because my wife Lauracalls it.
The wild beauty of thelandscape is something that is
breathtaking, so not just inPalermo and in the big cities,
(25:47):
but if you get out into thehinterlands it's quite beautiful
.
It's quite beautiful andthere's all small towns and the
people are so welcoming andfriendly.
There's nowhere to eat betterthan for me, than there.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You've covered so much territory and shared so
much from different aspects ofyour life.
You've been a reader all yourlife.
You've enjoyed it.
What do you tell leaders thatdon't read as often as they
should?
What's the value of becoming areader as a leader?
Speaker 3 (26:21):
as they should.
What's the value of becoming areader?
As a leader, I would usuallynot tell people to read business
books or self-help books.
I don't get much out of them.
I think most of them arewell-intended and have common
sense behind them and if you putthem all together, they're
basically offering the sameadvice.
Sometimes I say go read BarbaraTuchman's the March of Folly,
(26:46):
which is a history book aboutfive different episodes in
history where countries actedcontrary to their own
self-interest.
So it's almost like the Trojansletting in the horse, great
Britain just not reallyunderstanding the American
(27:07):
colonies, america's fiasco inVietnam, things like that, where
you're doggedly, determinantlygoing against every sort of
reason or against the facts inpursuit of your own folly.
But I think reading just makesyou a more broader individual,
(27:28):
whether you read fiction ornonfiction, or history or
literature or science.
I think it makes you a morecomplete human being.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Wow, yes, yes, We've shifted a lot before.
You know.
Barnes Noble had to change andthere's so much of an online
presence.
Where do you see the future ofbooks for us as a society?
Will we be online or do youthink that our brick and mortar
stores will always have a placein our society?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Ever since we were in business, people predicted the
demise of reading and ofbookstores.
Back in the 70s and 80s, when Ithink it was the first Atari
video game appeared, it was saidoh, kids are not going to read
anymore.
And you had cable televisiongrowing in the 80s and 90s.
(28:11):
And then the Internet, and thenvideo games became ever more
dominant.
Yes, and now social media, butinterestingly there are as many
bookstores today as there wereBarnes Noble stores as there
were 10 years ago.
So it's been a remarkablyresilient industry.
(28:35):
It's larger than the moviebusiness, Unlike the music
business where the physicalproduct is not as important.
People want to hold books.
Having books in your home is areflection of your background,
your interests.
It shows what you're interestedin.
(28:55):
Whenever I go into someone'shome, I look at their books.
It gives you a clue as to whatmight you know.
Anything could lead, of course,to conversation, but then there
are art books and there arecookbooks and all sorts of
visual books that cannot bereplicated in a digital format.
Yes, so I think people alwayswill hold on to the idea of
(29:20):
books, physical books, havingvalue, and that's not to say
other formats haven't helped.
Digital books are great, eBooksand I believe the fastest
growing part of the business nowis audio books.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
And.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sicilian Avengers is available and will be available
next month as an audio book.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Awesome.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Thank you so it's a resilient business.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I travel and I've never gone through an airport
where there's not books on sale.
It's always a place to buybooks and I still like hard copy
books.
I do have digital, but I lovegetting on an airplane and just
having a hard copy book in myhand.
I can pull it out withoutpowering up anything.
It's easier, more accessiblefor me, quite honestly, and I
can highlight it.
So I'm still telling myself onthe age.
I like to highlight stuff andgo back and read it again and
(30:05):
how do I use it and leverage it.
So I'm still into that phase ofdoing it.
So I like hard copy.
You shared about the book.
Where do people get it, how dopeople get in touch with you and
if people are interested inbringing you on the podcast to
continue to promote the book, Iwant to make sure that you share
that opportunity to have peoplereach you to share your book as
well.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Well, they can go to SicilianAvengerscom and they
could read about the book, aboutmyself, about the original
author of the book.
My email is on the site if youlook under contact.
Yes, so I'm happy to talk topeople via email and people that
can reach out and talk to meabout after having read the book
(30:42):
or before having read the book.
It's something that I'd behappy to do.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Well, I'll be in New York City next month, so I'll
reach out to you and if I canget it you know I'm a novice to
New York City, so I'll land andcatch a cab and if I'm anywhere
close to you I'll be happy tomake sure that I purchase and
get an autograph from you andkeep it on my bookshelf and pass
that along through my family.
So I'll be in New York City the18th and 19th of November.
I'll send you an email withinformation, but if there's any
(31:07):
way for us to probably connect,I would love to get an autograph
from you while I'm there.
So I'll support what you'redoing as well.
So are you on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Is there any other place where people can follow
you and reach out to you?
The best place isSicilianAvengerscom.
I have an email called srigioat protonmailcom.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yes, and that's the best place.
Awesome, awesome, thank you.
So what do you want to leavewith our leaders today in
regards to our conversation,unpacked, or leadership, or
books?
What are some things that youwould like to say, hey, what do
you want them to take away fromthis conversation today?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Well, of course, I would like them to go to my
website and buy the book and tohave a new perspective on
Italian-Americans andSicilian-Americans.
I want them to know that mycareer in bookselling was
probably the most rewardingcareer I could ever have asked
for, and bookstores are animportant part of American
(32:03):
culture.
So I encourage them to shop inbookstores, visit bookstores,
buy books for their kids, buybooks for themselves, because
there is no better form of wayof entertaining yourself or of
learning.
We always looked at bookstoresas places for people who aspire
(32:25):
to learn, and I think thatthat's continuing today, and I
think it will continue indecades to come.
Bookstores aren't goinganywhere.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yes, I truly agree with you, a hundred percent.
We have three kids in ourfamily and they say, hey,
continue to read, continue toeducate yourself.
I mean, you're just a one clickaway, or one book away, from
learning what you need to learn,so continue to-.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
That's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, well, it's been great.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
We're always excited to hearfrom people that are writing
books, that are doing greatthings.
That's adding value.
Our company spends a lot oftime like how do we just give
back to people?
And that's where we are in ourcareers how do we give back and
help people continue to be thebest version of themselves?
And so thank you for going backand translating Sicilian
Avengers into English for us,and you're going to put it in
(33:09):
audio format.
So it's going like wildfire aswell and for everyone that's
listening.
Please follow us.
Ron Harvey on Global Core is ourcompany.
You can find that, but I'm alsoon LinkedIn.
Reach out to either one of us.
We love to support you on apodcast or bring people on a
podcast.
We're business owners.
I'm not where Stephen is.
He's retired and writing goodbooks out there or translating
them.
I'm still working, so I'll getthere soon, but please follow us
(33:31):
.
Please share the link to thispodcast.
We are happy to support you inyour journey as well and
continue reading books andbuying books, as Stephen said.
So until next time, stephen andI will sign off and we wish you
the best and hope you enjoy thepodcast and we share something
that will actually make you moreeffective as a leader and a
better reader.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(34:11):
leadership.
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, good afternoon, or at least it's afternoon.
Where I am, I'm in Columbia,south Carolina.
Thank you for joining us.
This is Unpacked with RonHarvey, and this is the
opportunity where we pause anddo a lot of work with different
leaders from around the globe.
Our company really focuses onhelping develop leaders to be
more connected to theirworkforce.
At the end of the day, that'sbetter communication, that's
more trust, empowering people,delegating to people, allowing
(00:52):
people to be their best self inyour organization, which we
spend a lot of our time talkingabout leadership.
My wife and I own the company.
We're both veterans of the army, so we understand how important
leadership is that's continuedto serve our military services.
So we get to do it now in thepublic service or the private
service of our country, so welove doing it.
This podcast is all about ourleaders coming to the table and
(01:13):
having a conversation.
What we do promise is we'regoing to have a conversation
around leadership, but we goeverywhere.
We talk about books, we talkabout business, we talk about
what we're doing and exciting,so you'll hear that all from us.
What we do promise is we'llshare something around
leadership, so hang on with usfor 20 minutes 25 plus, as our
guests come on and they sharefrom really just who they are.
It's called Unpack.
They have fun.
(01:34):
They're pretty brave becausethey never know what the
questions are.
They just come on and have funwith us.
So I'm super excited If you doanything with Barnes and Nobles,
if you've ever done anything.
I'm super excited to have oneof the former CEOs, stephen,
joining us today from New YorkCity.
So let me hand the microphoneto Stephen and you can share
what you want to share aboutyourself.
Stephen.
I usually let all of our gueststalk about themselves or what
(01:54):
they're doing and what'shappening.
We'll go to some questions.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Sure, good morning, it's great to be with you.
I spent close to 40 years withBarnes Noble.
I spent close to 40 years withBarnes Noble, so I have a
lifetime of book sellingexperience.
Our company was founded with asingle store on Fifth Avenue in
Manhattan and through thedecades the 70s, 80s, 90s and
(02:21):
into the aughts we graduallyexpanded the company until we
had close to 700 stores by thetime I retired in 2012.
And it was an amazing career and, as you know, most people think
of Barnes Noble today for thosestores that are around the
country, in inner cities, insuburban shopping malls and
(02:41):
strip centers.
But we actually started with asingle store and it took many
years for us to test differentsize stores, different formats,
different approaches to bookselling and with each step we
became a little bit moreaudacious until we finally came
(03:02):
up with a formula that peoplethought came out of thin air and
it was unexpected and peoplesaid it would never work.
But it had actually undergonequite a bit of testing and quite
a bit of kicking the tires, ifyou will.
Until in the mid-90s we hadsort of perfected that concept
(03:24):
that we know of as today.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Wow yeah, as I was reading and the team gets
information in front of me, so Iknow who's on and some of the
history.
I look back at your family,where you come from, where it
started at, which we'll get into.
When you think about like mostof us do think, it came out of
nowhere and it showed up, butthere was a lot of work and you
think about people that arestarting entrepreneur and want
to run a business or in aleadership role, what are some
(03:47):
of the bigger challenges thatyou have to overcome if you're
going to take this journey ofleadership or entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, I think entrepreneurs are often
mischaracterized as risk takers.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
People that jump into something and take on risk, and
I think it's more proper todefine people who are
entrepreneurs as those whomitigate risk rather than engage
it, if you think about evensomeone with perhaps one of the
(04:21):
more riskier pursuits, which ismountain climbing.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I mean, those people are up there on the mountain and
they want to make sure that ifa piece of equipment fails, they
have plan B, and so they areprobably more involved in
mitigating their risks.
After all, they don't want tofall off the mountain.
And the same thing with anentrepreneur starting a business
(04:47):
.
They want to get a return ontheir investment, they want to
get a return on their capital,and I think you can't be
successful if you don't thingsthat are a little unusual, if
you don't break the mold, if youdon't try something different.
But you have to do it in a veryjudicious way and make sure
(05:07):
that you have a plan B and youalter your course of action
other than sticking to someemotional tie to your original
idea.
You need to evolve and be swiftand, in some cases, decisive in
changing direction.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I love that you said because entrepreneurs do get
stuck with their emotionalattachment.
I hear entrepreneurs always say, or often say, it's my baby.
I say that can be disablingbecause most people if it's
treated like a baby, doesn't getto grow and are you
overprotective sometimes.
So you know, I tell people whenyou think of it's your baby,
you may not let anyone else orwant anyone else to help raise
(05:48):
your baby or to make your babysmarter or faster or brighter or
more intelligent.
That emotional attachment canactually cripple you or be a
crutch that doesn't allow you togrow.
You're releasing books and youguys are in the business of
books.
What drew your family to?
Really that's where you startedand you figured it out, because
I've always believed books arewhere the seekers to life are at
(06:09):
.
But for your family and yougrowing up because you watched
your brother start the companyand you came in later what made
it fascinating about starting abook business known as Barnes
and Nobles today?
And I know that's not where youstarted, but what started it.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, our parents were second generation
Italian-Americans.
My father was a cab driver, mymother was a homemaker and, like
many second generation or firstand second generation
Italian-Americans, they wantedtheir children to be better.
So education and dedication anddetermination were very
(06:44):
important to them.
My brother, len, had workedearly in his career at a college
bookstore serving the NYUcommunity down here in New York
September.
When students came back to buytheir books he would see that
(07:06):
there were long lines to waitfor the books.
Some of the books weren't ontheir shelf and he got very
frustrated with that.
So he decided he could do abetter job and he opened the
store around the corner.
And he opened the store aroundthe corner and one of the
hallmarks of his success is thaton that first day of classes he
(07:32):
had every book on the shelf andon that first day of classes he
had enough cash registers toensure that the students
wouldn't have to wait in line.
So that kind of began hisreputation as someone that could
efficiently run a collegebookstore like never before.
(07:53):
And he went on to lease andmake contracts with other
college bookstores throughoutthe Northeast, most notably
Columbia University, and heshowed universities that he
could run their stores betterthan they could, and that's the
germ of how it started.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I mean I love that because you identify a
problem and say I know this canbe done better, I can figure it
out, and I think that's the partof if not necessarily,
risk-taking.
But you begin to say to say,okay, what can I mitigate or
minimize for people that areneeding this service?
So I love that idea.
Can you bring us up to speedwith where you decided after you
(08:33):
went to college and coming tothe business, and where did you
start?
Because you didn't start at ceo.
You had to work your waythrough the organization.
You had to develop some skillsand also your own identity.
How did you navigate that space?
Because most people struggle.
How do I work my way toleadership versus someone owes
me leadership?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Sure.
Well, I did start out in thecompany after graduating from
college and it was a smallcompany at the time.
So I did work in many differentpositions throughout the
company and saw it grow and hadincreasing responsibilities.
The company, and saw it growand had increasing
responsibilities, we did gopublic in 1993.
(09:13):
Actually, a few years beforethat I think.
At that time we had about 80bookstores and we were running
them.
Well, I had an executiveposition at that time, but we
purchased a larger company thathad 700 stores and so it was
called B Dalton Bookseller andthey were based in Minneapolis.
We were based in New York andone of the things that we did at
(09:36):
that time was we moved ourheadquarters to Minneapolis in
order to recognize theimportance of the people that
had built that company and thathad run that company for so many
years.
So that was a big jump for ourcompany and for me, and I think
(09:58):
that was probably the biggestleap that I had in executive
ability, because it was takingon something that was so much
larger in scale and scope.
We ultimately managed to movethe headquarters back to New
York and we went public in 1993.
So that was another biglearning curve, working in a
(10:19):
public company is very differentthan a private company as I'm
sure you know.
So that was another big learningexperience for me, and I was
ultimately appointed CEO in 2002.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
When I think about it , stephen, I mean you said
something that was huge forleaders to understand,
regardless of what industrythey're in.
It is understanding the valueof the people that did so much
to get it to where it was, andso making that major move out to
Minnesota and say, okay, great,we're going to get because we
value the people that are withthese 700 stores.
But you kept making the changesnecessary for you to be
successful, and I know we'regetting a lot of changes.
(10:55):
But how did you navigate somuch change at such a high level
over a period of time, for thegood of the company and the good
of the people?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I think you know, every company faces change on
the business side, on the socialside, on the culture side.
What we managed to do, whichwas quite extraordinary, yes.
In 1987, we had 700 small formatstores and zero large format
(11:24):
stores.
10 years later, we had almostzero small format stores and 700
large stores.
It was about 15 years.
So I think that speaks to thedetermination to grow.
But we did it judiciously.
(11:45):
We didn't open 700 storesovernight.
It was 10 one year, then 30,then 40, then 70.
And one year we opened close to100 stores.
So at each stage we weremonitoring what we were doing,
right or wrong.
Yes, growing a company thatlarge also meant taking care of
(12:07):
our people, and we were verymuch, I think, at the forefront
of the type of policies thathave almost become common in
American corporations.
We were the first majorcorporation to offer family
leave policy and we also offereddomestic partner coverage in
(12:28):
healthcare.
That was unheard of at the time.
What year was that?
Well, oh, that was in the latenineties.
We were listening to ouremployees.
Wow, I mean, you have to havethis dialogue with your
employees and always, healthcare, as you probably are aware, is
a very difficult thing tonavigate for many companies.
It's expensive, regulations arealways changing, what people
(12:52):
are expecting of healthcare isalways changing and in that case
I think we had a lot offoresight and we did something
that was good for our employees.
Some of our own executives atthe time had objected to it.
Yes, you know, why would we dothis?
It would be expensive or no oneelse is doing it.
(13:14):
Yes, you know, do we reallywant to be at the forefront?
And in some cases you do, somecases you don't.
Because even though you have Idon't like to call them
competitors, but, let's say,colleagues in the business world
other retailers, you do watchwhat they do when you learn from
them.
Yes, when you have competitors,you have to learn what they're
(13:35):
doing.
That you're not often and youhave to look at them with a
critical eye for what they'redoing best, not what you could
beat them at all the time.
Retailers are not enemycombatants.
We are all in the business ofserving our customers.
So I would always go into otherretailers and I wouldn't look
(13:57):
at what they're doing wrong, butwhat they're doing right, and
that's always a valuablelearning experience.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that too, stephen, because
oftentimes when you're anentrepreneur, especially a small
business, you look at people ascompetitors or combatants, and
we're all trying to do the bestcustomer service across the
board.
So I'm loving that you'resharing that, because when you
look at a company that went fromthe size that you were to what
you became, you still had thatin your mind that they're not
our competitors, we're notcompeting against them.
I do go and watch what they'redoing, and you said something
(14:24):
that's profound for everyonethat's listening.
Sometimes you look at whatthey're doing best and you may
not be able to beat them at it,but you got to pay attention to
what they're doing best so youcan learn from it.
And oftentimes we say, well, Igot to beat them.
You may not beat them, but youcan get better at how you do it.
So I love that you share that.
That's a nugget that you hearfrom someone that's been exposed
to it is doing it.
Let's talk about the book thatyou're releasing and the work
(14:47):
that you're doing and where itcame from.
So you're writing this book oryou're starting to translate it.
Let's put it that way, rightShare with the audience the book
that you're translating andwhat drew you to translate it
for us into English speakingaudience in the first place?
What drew you to do that?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, I could begin by saying that I had retired in
2012.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
In 2008,.
We had lost our daughter,melissa, after a year-long
battle she had with leukemia,and it was a tough time.
As I like to say, all happyfamilies are alike, but all
grieving families grieve intheir own way, to paraphrase
Tolstoy, and I was looking for away for my wife and I to move
(15:32):
forward.
I was looking to open a newdoor for us, find a way forward,
open a new chapter in our lives, and I came up with the idea of
studying the Italian languagetogether.
Now, I am of Italian descent,on my father's side Sicilian, so
I always had an interest in thelanguage.
(15:55):
I did study it earlier in life,but I had dropped it.
So it was the start of a newjourney for us, and a few years
into that journey, our professorgave us a book in Italian to
read and it looked verydifficult.
It looked very imposing.
It was a thousand pages and Ithought we would read one or two
(16:17):
or three chapters together.
But my wife and I became hookedon the story.
It's a hundred-year-old novel,very much in the vein of
Alexandre Dumas.
It's a swashbuckling adventurestory.
I had loved that type of storywhen I was a kid, so I was a
very heavy reader.
So we were reading it and Idecided to look for an English
(16:41):
translation to see how we weredoing, and I discovered it did
not exist.
So you know, we were talkingabout my career in bookselling
before and, as I say, we oftendid audacious things and I
thought let me try somethingaudacious in my retired life.
And, as a writer friend of minehas recently said to me, she
(17:04):
said Steve, how did you do this?
Most men retire and they takeup golf.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I don't play golf, so it was certainly a challenge
for me, but one that I enjoyed.
And I ultimately completed thetranslation and have published
it in two volumes, as you cansee Sicilian Avengers, book 1
and Book 2.
And while reading the book, asan interesting little tidbit,
(17:32):
the main character of the bookis an orphan.
And while I was researching,translating the book,
translating it, my wife and Imade four trips to Sicily and I
undertook a deep dive into myfamily's ancestry and traced it
back 400 years, oh my goodness.
And I discovered that mygrandfather was an orphan.
(17:56):
So I feel that I was destinedto translate this book.
All the pieces seem to come inplace.
As I say in theacknowledgements, it's my
deepest wish that this thingnever existed.
You know we came to thisbecause of the loss of our
daughter, but her presence in itis undeniable and it was almost
(18:22):
a gift that we were given.
So it was published last week.
It's two volumes.
It's very much in the vein, asI said, of Dumas.
It's an adventure story.
My wife Laura says it's gotsomething for everyone.
It's a love story, an adventurestory, a historical novel.
There's plenty of intrigue inthe book where characters are.
(18:46):
There's twists and turns whereyou don't know, perhaps, what's
going to take place.
And, interestingly, the book waswritten by Luigi Natoli.
He wrote 30 novels and theywere all written as serial
novels, like Charles Dickens didin the 19th century.
So he had a skill like onechapter would come out every few
(19:10):
days or every week.
So he had a particular skill inkeeping readers hooked and they
would await with bated breathwhat would happen next.
And he was also a scholar and ahistorian, so he was deeply
rooted in European and Sicilianhistory.
(19:32):
And there are fictionalcharacters in the book and
historical characters.
So it has a sense of it,breathes with believability and
reality, although it's fiction.
Reality although it's fiction.
And the thrust of the story forpeople that want to know is
that it's about a secret sect inSicily that existed in the
(19:55):
early 18th century, who somebelieve were forerunners of the
Sicilian mafia.
So that's the kind of intrigueand mystery about the story.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
When was the first story written?
How many years ago, because youwent back and you traced back
your family history over 400years.
But when is the first storywritten on Sicilian Avengers?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
The book was published in 239 installments
between 1910 and 1912 or 1911.
So you know it's a thousandpages.
So he had the skill, he was agreat writer.
And he was a teacher and ahistorian.
His books were later banned bythe Mussolini government because
(20:38):
he was an ardent anti-fascist.
By the Mussolini governmentbecause he was an ardent
anti-fascist.
Yes, he was very rooted in hisown belief, in a sense of
justice which is the heart ofthe story.
Where do people turn?
At the time of the novel,sicily was still a feudal
society.
Yes, and the power was in thehands of the barons, the
(21:00):
aristocrats.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yes, and the power was in the hands of the barons,
the aristocrats.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
The Inquisition, the Catholic Church's Inquisition,
was still in effect, so peoplewere jailed, tortured and
executed for heresy, and soNatoli took all of these threads
that were in the historicalrecord and weaved a novel around
it, because he had astorytelling gift.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I love that after retirement, you didn't go to the
golf course and dealing withgrief allowed it to become a
gift to you.
Like you say, everybody grievesdifferent and families go
through something different.
What's the story to someonethat may be listening that's
trying to navigate some of thelandscape you had to navigate
dealing with grief, and how doyou find yourself and find
something to keep you goingevery day?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well being in the book business, it was natural
for me to reach out and readmany of the books on grieving.
One could just go online andsearch for them and you get a
perspective from other writersof how they dealt with it.
But it's a hard thing to giveadvice to people about because,
(22:06):
as I said, it's something insideof you.
There's no textbook on how todeal with that and especially
with the loss of a child.
I think everyone grieves intheir way.
For me and for my wife, it wasimperative that we build, go
forward.
We have two other daughters andnow two grandchildren, so it
(22:29):
was imperative for us to moveahead and it just so happened I
was retired soon after not atthat time, but it almost gave me
a reason also to retire.
Yes, I was working for 40 years.
We lost a child.
What is the next phase of mylife going to be like?
(22:50):
And so, as I said, I'm nothappy that it turned out this
way.
I would have preferred adifferent path, but we're here
today and I'm happy that, in abittersweet way, she gave me
this gift.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yes, and thank you for your transparency Because I
think, as people, whether you'rein a leadership role or
formally or informally thatpeople are watching, people are
listening and they learn fromour journey and it'd be slightly
different, but they'll learnbecause you're speaking to
someone that's listening.
We started off about your rolewith Barnes Noble.
We go into.
You know you shared about theloss of a child, which I don't
think any parent wants to gothrough at all, and then you
(23:28):
talk about the book.
What do you want readers towalk away with from the fact
that you've translated this book?
What do you want them to getfrom the book?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
That's a great question.
I'm very aware as anItalian-American, as in a
Sicilian-American with deepancestry into the place where my
grandparents and ancestors camefrom, that Italian-Americans
and Sicilian-Americans have beenvictims of stereotypical
(23:55):
portrayals in the media.
Yes, and we know what those are.
Yes, tv series, movies and thelike, and what I want them to
come away with is a betterunderstanding of Sicilian
history.
The book is rooted in historyand to appreciate how it does
(24:17):
come through in the book a bit.
But if you become interested inSicilian history, you find out
that America, of course, is anation of immigrants.
Where I live, new York, is amelting pot, yes, but Sicily has
it beat on every front.
For 2,000 years.
Sicily was conquered, invadedand settled by Greeks, romans,
(24:42):
arabs, normans, byzantine Empire, the Spanish.
Yet it absorbed those culturesand you could see it when you go
to Sicily, or especially toPalermo, which is a wonderful
city.
You see it in the culture, inthe language there are many
Sicilian words that are rootedin Arabic you see it in the
(25:05):
buildings, you see it in thefood, you see it in the people.
It's an amazingly multicultural, diverse society and the other
thing I would like people to do,so have a different view of
Sicily than you know.
People say you're ItalianAmerican, they immediately think
mafia.
Yes, you know, and that'sterrible.
(25:26):
Yeah, the other thing I wantpeople to do is to finish the
book, close the last page andbuy a plane ticket to Sicily.
Yeah, because my wife Lauracalls it.
The wild beauty of thelandscape is something that is
breathtaking, so not just inPalermo and in the big cities,
(25:47):
but if you get out into thehinterlands it's quite beautiful
.
It's quite beautiful andthere's all small towns and the
people are so welcoming andfriendly.
There's nowhere to eat betterthan for me, than there.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You've covered so much territory and shared so
much from different aspects ofyour life.
You've been a reader all yourlife.
You've enjoyed it.
What do you tell leaders thatdon't read as often as they
should?
What's the value of becoming areader as a leader?
Speaker 3 (26:21):
as they should.
What's the value of becoming areader?
As a leader, I would usuallynot tell people to read business
books or self-help books.
I don't get much out of them.
I think most of them arewell-intended and have common
sense behind them and if you putthem all together, they're
basically offering the sameadvice.
Sometimes I say go read BarbaraTuchman's the March of Folly,
(26:46):
which is a history book aboutfive different episodes in
history where countries actedcontrary to their own
self-interest.
So it's almost like the Trojansletting in the horse, great
Britain just not reallyunderstanding the American
(27:07):
colonies, america's fiasco inVietnam, things like that, where
you're doggedly, determinantlygoing against every sort of
reason or against the facts inpursuit of your own folly.
But I think reading just makesyou a more broader individual,
(27:28):
whether you read fiction ornonfiction, or history or
literature or science.
I think it makes you a morecomplete human being.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Wow, yes, yes, We've shifted a lot before.
You know.
Barnes Noble had to change andthere's so much of an online
presence.
Where do you see the future ofbooks for us as a society?
Will we be online or do youthink that our brick and mortar
stores will always have a placein our society?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Ever since we were in business, people predicted the
demise of reading and ofbookstores.
Back in the 70s and 80s, when Ithink it was the first Atari
video game appeared, it was saidoh, kids are not going to read
anymore.
And you had cable televisiongrowing in the 80s and 90s.
(28:11):
And then the Internet, and thenvideo games became ever more
dominant.
Yes, and now social media, butinterestingly there are as many
bookstores today as there wereBarnes Noble stores as there
were 10 years ago.
So it's been a remarkablyresilient industry.
(28:35):
It's larger than the moviebusiness, Unlike the music
business where the physicalproduct is not as important.
People want to hold books.
Having books in your home is areflection of your background,
your interests.
It shows what you're interestedin.
(28:55):
Whenever I go into someone'shome, I look at their books.
It gives you a clue as to whatmight you know.
Anything could lead, of course,to conversation, but then there
are art books and there arecookbooks and all sorts of
visual books that cannot bereplicated in a digital format.
Yes, so I think people alwayswill hold on to the idea of
(29:20):
books, physical books, havingvalue, and that's not to say
other formats haven't helped.
Digital books are great, eBooksand I believe the fastest
growing part of the business nowis audio books.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
And.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sicilian Avengers is available and will be available
next month as an audio book.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Awesome.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Thank you so it's a resilient business.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I travel and I've never gone through an airport
where there's not books on sale.
It's always a place to buybooks and I still like hard copy
books.
I do have digital, but I lovegetting on an airplane and just
having a hard copy book in myhand.
I can pull it out withoutpowering up anything.
It's easier, more accessiblefor me, quite honestly, and I
can highlight it.
So I'm still telling myself onthe age.
I like to highlight stuff andgo back and read it again and
(30:05):
how do I use it and leverage it.
So I'm still into that phase ofdoing it.
So I like hard copy.
You shared about the book.
Where do people get it, how dopeople get in touch with you and
if people are interested inbringing you on the podcast to
continue to promote the book, Iwant to make sure that you share
that opportunity to have peoplereach you to share your book as
well.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Well, they can go to SicilianAvengerscom and they
could read about the book, aboutmyself, about the original
author of the book.
My email is on the site if youlook under contact.
Yes, so I'm happy to talk topeople via email and people that
can reach out and talk to meabout after having read the book
(30:42):
or before having read the book.
It's something that I'd behappy to do.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Well, I'll be in New York City next month, so I'll
reach out to you and if I canget it you know I'm a novice to
New York City, so I'll land andcatch a cab and if I'm anywhere
close to you I'll be happy tomake sure that I purchase and
get an autograph from you andkeep it on my bookshelf and pass
that along through my family.
So I'll be in New York City the18th and 19th of November.
I'll send you an email withinformation, but if there's any
(31:07):
way for us to probably connect,I would love to get an autograph
from you while I'm there.
So I'll support what you'redoing as well.
So are you on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Is there any other place where people can follow
you and reach out to you?
The best place isSicilianAvengerscom.
I have an email called srigioat protonmailcom.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yes, and that's the best place.
Awesome, awesome, thank you.
So what do you want to leavewith our leaders today in
regards to our conversation,unpacked, or leadership, or
books?
What are some things that youwould like to say, hey, what do
you want them to take away fromthis conversation today?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Well, of course, I would like them to go to my
website and buy the book and tohave a new perspective on
Italian-Americans andSicilian-Americans.
I want them to know that mycareer in bookselling was
probably the most rewardingcareer I could ever have asked
for, and bookstores are animportant part of American
(32:03):
culture.
So I encourage them to shop inbookstores, visit bookstores,
buy books for their kids, buybooks for themselves, because
there is no better form of wayof entertaining yourself or of
learning.
We always looked at bookstoresas places for people who aspire
(32:25):
to learn, and I think thatthat's continuing today, and I
think it will continue indecades to come.
Bookstores aren't goinganywhere.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yes, I truly agree with you, a hundred percent.
We have three kids in ourfamily and they say, hey,
continue to read, continue toeducate yourself.
I mean, you're just a one clickaway, or one book away, from
learning what you need to learn,so continue to-.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
That's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, well, it's been great.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
We're always excited to hearfrom people that are writing
books, that are doing greatthings.
That's adding value.
Our company spends a lot oftime like how do we just give
back to people?
And that's where we are in ourcareers how do we give back and
help people continue to be thebest version of themselves?
And so thank you for going backand translating Sicilian
Avengers into English for us,and you're going to put it in
(33:09):
audio format.
So it's going like wildfire aswell and for everyone that's
listening.
Please follow us.
Ron Harvey on Global Core is ourcompany.
You can find that, but I'm alsoon LinkedIn.
Reach out to either one of us.
We love to support you on apodcast or bring people on a
podcast.
We're business owners.
I'm not where Stephen is.
He's retired and writing goodbooks out there or translating
them.
I'm still working, so I'll getthere soon, but please follow us
(33:31):
.
Please share the link to thispodcast.
We are happy to support you inyour journey as well and
continue reading books andbuying books, as Stephen said.
So until next time, stephen andI will sign off and we wish you
the best and hope you enjoy thepodcast and we share something
that will actually make you moreeffective as a leader and a
better reader.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(34:11):
leadership.
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