December 1, 2025 • 33 mins
We explore why values outlast achievements and how to lead under pressure without compromising integrity. Andy Crocker shares lessons from aerospace, the five core values in his book The Unconditionals, and practical ways to grow through failure, mentor well, and adopt AI responsibly.
• defining success as values alignment not outcomes
• integrity in data, decisions and trust
• love at work as respect, kindness and compassion
• endeavor as purpose, perseverance and growth
• handling pressure without shortcuts
• mentoring as culture transfer and accountability
• learning new tools like AI with transparency
• where to find The Unconditionals and connect with Andy
Andy breaks down the five values from The Unconditionals—love, gratitude, integrity, accountability, and endeavor—and how they guide leaders when pressure, setbacks, or tough decisions hit. They dig into honest data, compassionate accountability, and the discipline of continuous learning as technology and expectations evolve. Andy also shares mentorship practices that build capability and confidence across a team. It’s a grounded conversation for anyone wanting to lead with clarity, character, and resilience.
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Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Good morning, everyone.
Well, let me change that.
Good afternoon.
It's 12 o'clock up in Columbia,South Carolina, depending on
where you're listening from andwhat day you're listening to
this.
But good afternoon.
Ron Harvey, Chief OperatingOfficer, also Vice President for
Global Core Strategies andConsulting, which is a
leadership development forprofessional services where we
(00:40):
help our organizations and allof our partners help their
leaders be better prepared tolead their workforce with all
the different generations and doit in a way that people want to
work with them and comealongside them and help them be
successful.
So everything we do is aroundpeople and leaders,
communication and trust.
And those things that sometimescan be challenged in the
workforce.
But today I'm not here really totalk about Global Core.
(01:01):
I'm really here to talk aboutUnpack with Ron Harvey, which is
a podcast that we've been doingfor the last 18 months.
And we invite guests from allbackgrounds, all walks of life.
And we talk about some of thechallenges and the things that
we've accomplished and the booksthat we've written and the
services that we offer.
But our number one goal is toadd value to you, that you walk
with one thing from this podcastthat helps you be more effective
(01:24):
at whatever it is, or whereveryou're leading that, or whoever
you're taking care of, you'rebetter fit to do it.
And that's what we talk about.
So I'm super excited.
Our guest um is coming fromAlabama.
Andy's on with us, and I'm gonnamove out the way as I normally
do and invite the guests to themicrophone and let them
introduce themselves howeverthey wish to.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Andy, the floor is yours, man.
Great, Ron, thanks so much forhaving me.
I really, really am honored tobe on and appreciate the
opportunity.
Uh yeah, I'm Andy Crocker.
I have been in the aerospacebusiness.
I'm an aerospace engineer andbeen in the aerospace business
for 30 years.
Um, when I say aerospace, somepeople think of airplanes, but
but I've always worked on thespace side.
(02:03):
And um, and that means I'veworked with NASA, I've worked
with uh the defense department,I've worked with commercial
space companies uh throughout mycareer, sending satellites and
rockets and uh very things,various things to space.
So uh so that's been my career,and uh uh it's been a it's been
a great career to have.
Um, a lot of exciting projects,uh as you can imagine, in in the
(02:27):
space world.
Um in particular, I've I've beenable to be a leader in in space
and have led uh people andprojects.
And uh one of my one of myrecent projects over the last uh
several years has been uhmanaging a team to develop a
lander to go back to the moon.
And uh, and that's somethingthat was an exciting project.
(02:49):
Uh got had uh successes andfailures with that, and uh both
as a result of that and just aresult of kind of the the normal
things in life, I decided towrite a book uh called The
Unconditionals, uh, which is uhabout values, uh specifically
values that help us as people,as parents, but also as leaders.
(03:11):
And um, and and those values areimportant to me, and I wanted to
share them with with otherpeople.
So I wrote that book.
And uh and you can find out moreabout me and about the book if
you go to andycrockerbooks.com.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Yes, yeah.
Andy, I love it that you keep itsimple.
You know, if you know his name,you can find this book, you can
find out more about hisorganization.
Um, and you can ask somequestions and reach out for
everyone that followed podcastsor anybody that's a podcaster or
looking for other guests,definitely reach out to either
one of us.
Um, and and rate this show.
So I'm telling I'm askingeveryone, please rate the show.
Go out and give us sometestimonials, like us, let
(03:46):
people know, share it with you.
I mean, podcasts are built offof influence and people
supporting you.
So love your support for all ofyou that are listening.
And let's let's jump into it,man.
I mean, I know you got a copy ofthe book, so let's go ahead and
show the book real quick.
And then work, but what else canthey find it other than just
your stuff?
Okay, the unconditionals.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, the unconditional.
So you can find it on uh prettymuch any place that you normally
find books, whether it's on uhe-reader or uh hardback or
paperback or even on audiobook,uh, you can find it on pretty
much every platform.
Uh so you can find it on Amazonif that's your preference, but
certainly uh other platformstoo.
Uh, if you go toandycrockerbooks.com, uh there's
(04:23):
a link there, and it'll it'llliterally literally open up
every uh option that's availableto you, and you can just click
and go to whatever format youlike and and find it there.
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
Yes, I love it.
I love it.
So I'll I'll I'll become apurchaser of it.
I love reading, and I'm alwaysexcited when our guests come
along with the book or somethingthat continues to help me learn
and understand and have theperspectives, which I think is a
unique thing about oh, I see theworld as I'm always thinking,
well, how else can this be doneand how else can it be said and
what else can be done with it?
So if you're listening to us,you know that I'm always trying
(04:52):
to figure out what else.
Uh so let's dive into it.
So let's say, you know, I'm I'mdefinitely interested in your
book.
What would you say you wanted?
You wrote it for a particularreason.
What do you want the readers towalk away with?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Yeah, when so when I first started uh writing it, my
my audience, my target audiencewhen I started was my my
children.
Uh I wanted to write somethingthat I could pass to my children
and say, these are the thingsthat I think are important in
life.
And uh got a couple of monthsinto it and realized this is
more than just a uh back of theenvelope, you know, or or a
(05:28):
notebook that I'm gonna give tomy kids.
This is something that uh ismore than that.
And I really want to, I thinkthese values are important
enough to share with others.
So I decided to turn it into abook that I would that I would
publish and uh and get out tothe community so that others can
can learn from it.
Um, but it's really about, likeI said, it's about values that I
(05:49):
think are fundamental to who weare and how we approach the
world and and more importantly,um how we are fulfilled as
people, um, whether we're umindividual contributors or
leaders in our in our workplace.
SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
Yeah, I love that you say that.
I love that you started writingit for your kids, which means
you wanted to pass on yourvalues to your children, but you
realized it was much deeper thanand bigger than that, and there
are more people that can use it.
A question I often actually dofacilitate leadership workshops
is values.
When you think of that, youknow, on the pack for a second,
sometimes they hand it down toyou by your parents, but as you
(06:30):
get older, minds have changed alittle bit from what my parents
had to me and the world theylived in, how they were raised
and what they did, all thosethings that the world changed.
Have you noticed your valueschanging as you followed your
own identity, uh your own careerhad your own family?
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
Uh yeah, I think I I think I would say in some in
some ways they've changed, insome ways they've they've
solidified.
I think more than anything, Iunderstand them better now.
Um I think uh I understandwhat's important to me now
better than I used to.
Um, and whether it's you knowmanaging large projects and and
(07:09):
coming out of them with asuccess or a failure, uh, I have
you know been able to learnabout myself and learn about
what what's really important,which what the book says is it's
really what's most important iswho we are and and not what we
achieve.
(07:30):
And who we are is created by ismade up of our values.
Our values really determine whowe are.
So so that's um, you know, Ithink more than anything, it's
um uh understanding the valuesthat I have and being able to
write them down and andcommunicate what they're about.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Yeah, I will because you're you're at NASA, you've
been there for a long time, andoftentimes we do uh credit it or
get credit to what we do to makeup who we are, our careers and
our degrees and our titles andour office and been working at
NASA.
That's a that's a big thing.
I mean, you know, I don't get tohave a lot of people on the
(08:10):
podcast that can say they'vebeen at NASA so long doing what
you're doing.
But how do you get away from notmaking it about what you do and
getting back to your values?
Because the world says get aneducation, which I'm not saying
don't.
The world says your title andyour job and what you drive and
where you live in theneighborhood, and all these
other things that that that areassociated with our identity.
Where did you how do you getaway from it just being about
(08:33):
that and get back to yourvalues?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, I that's difficult.
Like you said, you're absolutelyright.
It the world is so um causes usto think that what's important
is what we do and whether weachieve or not, whether we
succeed or not.
And um what I've learned is umthose things are a result of
(08:58):
whether we do things the rightway, and that really depends on
who we are.
And so um, you know, if we putall of our eggs in the basket of
success or or what the worldsays is success, um, we may have
some uh achievements that we canlook at and feel good about, but
we're always, no matter who weare, we're always going to
(09:19):
encounter failure.
And that can really lead us toum question our own self-worth,
question our own um value aspeople.
And that's not healthy, and noris it even right.
The the right way to look atourselves is you know, what are
our values?
And are we living in alignmentwith the values that we have,
(09:41):
who we want to be?
And in that frame, the successesand failures don't matter.
I mean, yes, that they they helpus to uh to grow as people, um,
but but failure, one oneimportant thing that I've
learned as I've as I'vediscovered that values is really
what's important is failure ispart of growth.
(10:04):
It's part of personal growth.
So failure is actually arequirement.
It's something that we have toencounter, and it's not
something that's bad.
It's only bad when we call itbad.
Um, but if we embrace failure aspart of learning about ourselves
and learning to grow andlearning how to do better, then
uh we're gonna have a muchbetter time at um uh feeling
(10:28):
comfortable with who we are andfeeling comfortable that we can
live our values no matter whathappens.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you thank you, Michelle?
How do you, and when you thinkabout you at NASA and you think
about where you are, you've beenthere for years, and you know
how important the mission is andthe work that you do, that we
want to see the space shuttle goup, we know we want to see it
come back safely.
How how do you make sure that inan organization when there are
tight deadlines and people wantto see things done and they're
rushing and want to get it done?
(10:54):
And I'll go back to you know,when I watch the space shuttle
explode, the track accident, andand how we got there, and I read
the story, I read the backdropon it, and I'll be out of
Florida.
How do you make sure that youdon't allow the pressure that's
associated with some careersometimes make you overlook and
bypass or shortcut your values?
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
Yeah.
The yeah, pressure is is a hugedriver in in pushing us away
from our values sometimes.
And that's that's what reallydrove me to create the title for
the book that I wrote, TheUnconditionals, which is the
values that we have, who wereally are, should not depend on
the situation.
(11:34):
It shouldn't depend on us being,you know, in a in a uh
comfortable situation, shouldn'tdepend on us um having no
pressure.
It should be the same set ofvalues, whether we're under
pressure or not, whether we'rein a good situation or a
difficult situation, whethersomeone is gonna treat us well
or not.
(11:54):
In in any situation, thoseshould be constant values.
So when the pressure comes, ifwe've been practicing those
values and we know this is howwe're gonna behave, then we can
maintain the integrity, theaccountability, uh, the purpose,
you know, the perseverance thatwe need to get through the
(12:16):
situation.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
Yeah.
So when you think about, youknow, that that pressure does
happen.
People, what do you tell a youngleader that's coming up, that
wants to get promoted, thatwants to get on that big
project?
And it's important, it'ssignificant to them in their
careers and who they want to beseen as.
How do you how did you managewhen your back was against the
wall to really stay true when noone was watching?
(12:38):
You're the only one there,you're the only one that would
have known that you didn't do itright.
What did you actually put inplace?
You know, help the leaders thatare young, up and coming, and
and on that fence, strong thefence, whether to do it right or
not do it right, whether tovalue it by you, what did you
actually do to make sure youstayed in that life?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Yeah, I so I I think one one critical thing is to so
you're right.
It some people think it's umit's it's really hardest to
maintain your your values,especially integrity, yes, when
you're uh in front of lots ofpeople.
Um, but it it can be just ashard and sometimes harder when
(13:14):
you're when you're alone, whenyou're by yourself, and really
the decisions that you make areonly seen by you.
So um, first of all, I think uhwe need to remind ourselves that
um even if we're the only onewho can see our actions, uh, we
need to align with our stayaligned with our values.
(13:34):
So if so if integrity is one ofour values, and I hope it is for
for most people, then we've gotto maintain that value no matter
what's going on.
And typically it's easy to say,but it really does uh bear out
in the long run, whatever youractions are, they're going to
lead to something.
And so if you take action thatthat is not uh one with
(13:59):
integrity, that it's out ofalignment with that value of
integrity, at some point it'sgoing to come back to you.
And it may not show up rightaway and it may take some some
time, but at some point it'sgoing to uh come back in in a
way that uh that shows that,hey, that's not um you're not
getting the result that you hadhoped because you acted out of
(14:21):
something that's uh that's notaligned with your value.
So what we wanted to try to dois always uh act in alignment
with our value, be consistent inour thoughts and our words and
our actions, so that um whateverhappens when it comes back to
us, we can say, hey, we did whatwas consistent with our values
(14:45):
and we live with the result,whether it's uh success or
failure, but we can becomfortable in the fact that we
did what we thought was right,we did what was consistent with
who we want to be.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Yes, yes.
I want to say one of the thingsthat I think for us, you know,
especially now, is being able topass along something to the
younger generation about how toget it because with social media
the way it is, with everythingbeing captured on camera, a lot
a lot more than it was when Iwas growing up.
You know, you know, we gotcameras, we all be in trouble
right now.
I mean, there's just thingsthat, you know, cameras are
catching everything andeverybody puts everything out.
(15:18):
Can you set a time when yourvalues were tested and and you
had to do the hard right thingversus the easy the wrong thing?
What ruled you back in when thepeer pressure's on, you know,
and for me, like you know, and Igrew up, I grew up in a
community where it was easy toget alcohol or to get access to
drugs.
I chose not to.
(15:39):
And it was it was it wasavailable, it was easy to get,
but I chose not to do it becauseI wanted to be true that I'm not
gonna do those things.
Right.
Where's opportunity where youknow you share and be
transparent with people?
Like, hey, I everybody getstested.
Can you pass the test?
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Right.
Yeah, I think um, you know, asan engineer, uh working as an
aerospace engineer in my career,there are plenty of
opportunities, plenty of timeswhen you know, I'm I'm doing
research and I'm uh I'm uhcoming up with data that I'm
trying to prove a point or I'mtrying to uh convince somebody
that that my particular approachis the best one.
(16:15):
And uh I can decide to fake thedata and make it make my point
look stronger, make me lookbetter, make my research look uh
look more important.
Um I can I can fudge the data ina way that uh that other people
may not uh see, may notrecognize, and and make my
(16:37):
situation look better.
And so that's something that youknow just uh every day as an
engineer we come in contact, wewe we enter encounter is am I
going to um be have integrity inthe way that I present the data,
whether it's positive ornegative, no matter what uh
(16:58):
comes along, I'm going to be umconsistent in in how I present
what I've done, and I'm gonnashow exactly what it comes to.
And if it makes me look good,great.
If it doesn't, uh that's okay.
Um, but what's more important isis how I present myself and how
I'm consistent with who I say Iwant to be.
(17:19):
And what the reason that's mostimportant is people see that.
People see who you are ineverything that you do, the way
you talk, the way you act.
And and if you're not, if youdon't show that consistency and
you aren't having integrity inthe way that you present
yourself and your data in yourin your research, uh, then that
(17:40):
gets noticed.
And and people uh lose trust inyou and and they they don't want
to, you know, don't want to workwith you, don't want to put you
in positions uh where they haveto depend on you.
So it's it's most important toum show your data, show yourself
in a very consistent way thatpeople know, hey, this is
(18:00):
somebody I can count on nomatter what happens.
SPEAKER_02 (18:03):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
Well, I'm thinking as you'retalking and you're sharing the
story, you know, we have accessto AI now.
And it's so easy to go out andget research and do research a
lot faster.
And schools are struggling withis it their data?
Is it well, you know, and givingcredit, you know.
So people are, you know, with AIbeing, it makes you faster.
Um, you still got to do it theright way and you got to give
credit to us.
So if you're listening, AI is agreat thing, but make sure
(18:24):
you're giving credit wherecredit is due and you don't take
it as your own data.
So you have the book out, youknow, you got the
unconditionals, and you talk youtalk a lot about you know
integrity.
What are two other things thatin that book that that that have
been the foundation out of yourvalues?
What are two other values thatare super important to you
that's ground at you over theyears?
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, I'll I'll go ahead and go ahead and name all
five values that are.
Absolutely, yes.
Yeah, yeah, I'll name all fivebecause I I think they're all
important for for us in in theworkplace, you know, as parents,
as as uh friends, uh, but alsoas leaders.
So the values are love,gratitude, integrity,
accountability, and endeavor.
(19:03):
And and all five of those arereally necessary for for leaders
in particular.
Um, but but let me touch on umtwo maybe that uh folks may have
questions about as leaders.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
So touch on love and I'm gonna let you off the hook,
but I'm gonna unpack this loveand leadership because you don't
hear that coming from leaders.
So, you know, whatever you wantto touch on, but can you expand?
Yeah, that's perfect.
Love, man.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, I wanted to touch on that one, Ron, because
that is one where you knowpeople say, look, you know, love
doesn't belong in the workplace.
And the truth is it does.
And here's why.
I I break down love into threeparts.
Uh, one is respect, one iskindness, and the other is
compassion.
So in in the workplace, you'vegot to have respect for
(19:48):
everybody in the workplace,whether they're uh on your side
or not, you know, whetherthey're a competitor or a or a
colleague, um, you've got tohave respect.
And that's something that peoplenotice right away.
You know, are you showing themrespect?
And that comes back at you, orthey're gonna show you respect
as well.
The second is kindness.
Are we treating people with withthe kindness that they deserve
(20:09):
as a human being, you know?
And if you're a leader inparticular, no matter who's on
your team, no matter whetherthey're a high performer or
somebody who is similar to you,uh, or somebody who's got the
same background as you, you'vegotta, you've gotta show them
the kindness that you would wantthem to show you, the kindness
(20:29):
that they deserve as a person.
And then the last piece is iscompassion.
And and what that means as aleader is we not only do we have
sympathy for people that youknow, we understand their
problems, and not only do wehave empathy for people, which
means, you know, we feel the uhthe issues that they're going
(20:49):
through and we try to understandthem.
But compassion is we actuallyact on that.
So we do something to help.
And that means when we've gotsomebody who's working for us as
a leader and they've got adifficult situation, we actively
try to find ways to help uhresolve the situation, to help,
you know, create a better uhsituation for them.
(21:13):
It doesn't mean that, you know,when somebody's not a good
performer and they just theyaren't working out for the team,
it doesn't mean that younecessarily have to uh bend over
backwards to to uh keep them onthe team because many times the
compassionate thing to do is toto help them find another
opportunity.
But it means that we're we'reactively learning about our
(21:34):
people and finding out uh wherethey're having struggles and
working to help them get throughthose struggles, remove the
barriers, and allow them toperform at their best.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Yeah, I love it.
And you walk through and talkabout love because some people
think it's weak, um, or somepeople think it's just giving
people too much.
No, there's an accountability inlove, but it can be done with
kindness.
You know, and and I love thatyou say that because some people
think, well, I gotta be hard orI gotta be mean or I gotta be
direct, and it's just who I am.
And then it has to be kindness.
I mean, do you see people as ahuman being and how would you
(22:07):
want to be treated?
Even when you make a mistake,you know, you can treat people
kind when they make mistakes.
So, what are the other two youwant to unpack?
I know you want to unpack atleast three.
I mean, what are the other twothat you want to unpack that has
been really, really important toyou and your yeah, I'll I'll
jump to the last one that Imentioned.
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
So endeavor, and and and that's one that people say,
well, what is that?
Because it's not one, it's notoften called a value.
But for me, endeavor, what itreally means is doing.
It means uh acting, you know,making uh an effort to uh
produce or or or doing things inin uh in the world.
And the reason I think that's soimportant is you can have the
(22:44):
other four values, you can youcan live in the world and be
alive and and and exist withoutdoing things.
You can be a monk or you know,an ascetic and just uh survive,
but you're not going to make themost of your life.
You're not going to be able togrow as a person if you're not
endeavoring.
And so that's why I think thatvalue is so critical.
(23:06):
And endeavor has a lot of piecesto it.
I won't go through all of it,but but a couple of the key ones
is one, it starts with purpose.
You have a you have a purpose.
What is the what is the visionfor myself?
Where do I where do I need togo?
It requires perseverance, andand that means encountering
issues and learning how toovercome those issues.
And then the thing that reallycomes out of endeavor, the thing
(23:28):
that really is the the reasonfor endeavor is growth.
And that's why I think it's soimportant as a value is we as
people need to grow.
We constantly need to find waysto become better, to do more, to
be more of a contributor to thefamily and to the workplace and
to the community.
And that requires growth as aperson, and that comes from
(23:48):
endeavor.
Ryan, I lost you.
I can't hear you.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Yeah, thanks.
That's on me.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, I mean, thank you forsharing.
I mean, you gave a lot of greatinformation and insight around
the book and the work thatyou're doing and the and the
values.
I want to shift a little bit foryou away from the book.
I want to shift back tosomething that's important.
What role has mentor mentoringplayed in your success?
You know, you've been with NASAfor a while and and you started,
(24:22):
you know, and where you are now.
What role has mentoring playedand how did you find a mentor?
SPEAKER_00 (24:28):
I I've been really fortunate in that the people who
have been my assigned managerskind of throughout my career
have have had a heart formentoring.
And so uh I haven't had to gosearch for mentors.
I've that's just been somethingI've been lucky, uh, where I've
been able to lean on the peoplewho've been my managers and
learn from them, and and they'veall been willing to uh to mentor
(24:52):
me.
So from the first uh jobs I'vehad out of out of college.
Um and then as I've grown, asI've learned, um, I've really
because I've been so fortunateand because I've been able to
learn from from the people whohave been my managers, uh, I've
wanted to mentor others.
And so um once I got to thepoint where I felt like I was a
(25:13):
uh an experienced uh person, anengineer, and you know, leader,
manager, uh I've really lookedfor opportunities to to mentor
others.
Most of the time for me, it'sjust been you know a natural um
something that's just evolvednaturally to where someone
happens to um connect with me,or for whatever reason we come
(25:35):
in contact in a way that thatprovides an opportunity for
mentoring.
And and I really look forward tothose opportunities to share
wisdom about you know placesI've made mistakes and try to
help them avoid those mistakes,or or places where you know
maybe I've made some decisionsthat have worked out and uh and
offer you know suggestions forhow they might do those things.
(25:57):
So again, a lot of it's justbeen uh being in the right
place, uh, the right time.
And I think a lot is also justtaking the opportunities when
they've presented themselves tolearn from others who have that
experience that I can learn fromand then be available to other
people when uh when they'veneeded uh mentoring.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
The last question, then we'llcome back to where the notified
book again, your contactinformation.
Well, why would you tell leadersthat have risen to the point of
making sure that they areconstantly learner?
I mean, the world continues toevolve, things continue to
change.
What do you tell the leader thatthat's sitting in the seat like
you're not that's been aroundfor a while about continuing to
(26:40):
retool, reskill, continue to beassumed to learn?
What would you tell thosepeople?
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah, I that's a great question because I really
do think being a consistentlifelong learner is critical.
It for me, it goes back togrowth.
I think um it's so easy for usto get to a point where we
achieve something, we'resuccessful in something we've
tried to do, and and we want tojust rest on those laurels.
(27:05):
You know, we want to just staywhere we are because it's
comfortable.
Uh, and that that leads tostagnation.
You know, you you kind of saiduh there that it's easy for us
to um uh just stay where we areand not learn about the new
things that the new challengesthat are coming in the world or
the new uh things that we haveto uh to go encounter in our in
(27:28):
our workplace as a leader.
And so we have to keep in mindthat um part of being
unconditional with our endeavoris that we have to constantly be
growing as people.
And that means learning newthings, it means uh figuring out
what challenges are coming thatwe haven't faced before, and
then exposing ourselves to thediscomfort of facing those new
(27:52):
challenges.
So uh just focusing on growth asa person, and I think with that
comes that kind of learning.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
Yeah, I love it.
And I'm sure in the years you'vebeen in NASA, you've watched it
change, you've had to change,you've had to grow.
And and there was a time in mycareer where I was uh very, very
competent, and then somethingchanged, and all of a sudden I
went from this level of highcompetition to I'm not sure what
to do next.
So I felt very incompetent.
(28:19):
How do you close that gap?
Because it changes, and asthat's changed, AI is out.
People say, AI it's gonnareplace humans.
I think it's gonna make usfaster, we'll make the
adjustment and it won't replacehumans.
But how do you make sure you canclose the gap where you go from
this place of being veryconfident and competent to being
incompetent and no confidence?
How do you close that gap?
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Yeah, I well, I I think it requires action.
It requires, you know, thewillingness to the understanding
that you're gonna experiencediscomfort, you're gonna be
uncomfortable with with uhfacing new challenges and just
acknowledging that you know I'mgonna have to do that and then
just stepping into it.
So AI is a great example.
Uh, you know, hey, AI is gonnachallenge uh how we do our our
(29:03):
work in whatever situation weare, whatever job we have.
And let's just, you know, slowlystep into it.
Let me let me go figure out howChat GPT works, let me go
understand these tools and andhow I can use them.
Um, you know, it's not gonna besomething that happens
overnight, but um, but I canslowly step by step become aware
(29:25):
of okay, this is how this thischallenge is gonna um manifest
itself in in my situation.
And by understanding it, by bemaking myself uncomfortable, but
but understanding it better, uh,I'll be better prepared to deal
with it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
Yes, I I love it.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Um Ed, it's been phenomenal.
Let's go back to the book, thetitle of the book, and and where
people can find it.
And then once you finish that,you know, how do people get in
touch with you?
SPEAKER_00 (29:50):
Yeah, thanks uh again.
So the unconditionals is thename of the book.
You can find it uh pretty muchany platform where you normally
look for books.
So If you go toAndycrockerBooks.com, uh, that's
the simplest way.
You can click on a button thereand it'll take you to uh any
place where you normally willfind books.
Uh and again, it's available onany platform.
(30:11):
So if you like to listen tobooks in the car, you can find
the audiobook, uh, e-reader, uh,hard copy, any of those.
Um, and you can also find me onLinkedIn, just uh Andy Crocker,
and I'd be I'd love to interactwith you if you've got questions
about the book or my career oranything.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
That's so awesome.
And if someone reaches out toyou on LinkedIn and want to
purchase the book, how do theyget a signed copy?
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
Yeah, uh, yeah, if you want a signed copy,
absolutely.
Uh LinkedIn would be great.
Just uh just look me up, AndyCrocker, um, on LinkedIn and let
me know you bought the book andwe'll figure it out.
I can I can send you a a uh asigned hard copy.
We can we can make that happen.
SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
Awesome.
And thank you so much.
Thank you.
I mean, phenomenal, and I'm gladto have you on the show and talk
about values and just you knowit comes up in the conversation
and you own a book about it.
And I tell people all the time,like I think we we gotta get
back to the value systems.
Uh I think we've slipped alittle bit and we've kind of let
anything kind of happen withoutanybody speaking up.
Um, and when you don't speak up,you've you've kind of set the
(31:10):
stage a little bit different.
So I think it it takes courageto live your values.
It does.
Yeah, it takes a lot of courage.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
Any any last minute words you want to share with the
audience before we close out?
I I just want to say thank you,uh Ron.
I really appreciate it.
Uh love, love your podcast.
I've listened to some episodesand think you do a great job.
And it's just so important to uhbring uh diverse people from
from different backgrounds withtheir experience.
So I really appreciate what youdo and just thank you for the
(31:37):
opportunity.
SPEAKER_02 (31:38):
Yes, I appreciate all the guests.
Thank you so much for coming on,being yourself and being
authentic and sharing on thispodcast.
It's really just about that,like bringing people with all
backgrounds to the show to sharesomething that's gonna help our
audience.
And you've done a phenomenal jobin order to the audience.
Hopefully, y'all have enjoyedit.
Hopefully, you share it withsome of your colleagues and your
friends.
If you want to reach NDRI,definitely I'm on LinkedIn.
(31:59):
Um, if most professionals,you'll find us on LinkedIn.
If you listen to the podcast,you're not on LinkedIn, get on
LinkedIn.
Um, it's the professionalplatform.
Uh I know there are tons ofsocial media out there, but I'm
on LinkedIn.
It's probably the one I use morethan I use any other one.
If you're not using the AI,figure it out.
Get on there.
And the the as a matter of fact,every day that you wait, the
further you fall behind becauseit's changing so fast.
(32:20):
So, you know, I have to be on AIevery day because it changes so
fast.
And the last thing I'll leavewith you build great
relationships with people.
Don't burn bridges you mustcross.
People always matter.
Take care of your team, and yourteam will take care of you.
And until next time, and then Iwill sign off and tell you,
please go right and review ourpodcast.
Um, tell your friends about us.
(32:41):
Love to have more participationand support in the podcast.
Um, love what we do.
Thank y'all so much, and y'allhave a wonderful day.
And until next time, we're gonnasign off.
Uh, have a great one, everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks Sound Advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are or the people youserve.
(33:14):
Because people always matter.
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Good morning, everyone.
Well, let me change that.
Good afternoon.
It's 12 o'clock up in Columbia,South Carolina, depending on
where you're listening from andwhat day you're listening to
this.
But good afternoon.
Ron Harvey, Chief OperatingOfficer, also Vice President for
Global Core Strategies andConsulting, which is a
leadership development forprofessional services where we
(00:40):
help our organizations and allof our partners help their
leaders be better prepared tolead their workforce with all
the different generations and doit in a way that people want to
work with them and comealongside them and help them be
successful.
So everything we do is aroundpeople and leaders,
communication and trust.
And those things that sometimescan be challenged in the
workforce.
But today I'm not here really totalk about Global Core.
(01:01):
I'm really here to talk aboutUnpack with Ron Harvey, which is
a podcast that we've been doingfor the last 18 months.
And we invite guests from allbackgrounds, all walks of life.
And we talk about some of thechallenges and the things that
we've accomplished and the booksthat we've written and the
services that we offer.
But our number one goal is toadd value to you, that you walk
with one thing from this podcastthat helps you be more effective
(01:24):
at whatever it is, or whereveryou're leading that, or whoever
you're taking care of, you'rebetter fit to do it.
And that's what we talk about.
So I'm super excited.
Our guest um is coming fromAlabama.
Andy's on with us, and I'm gonnamove out the way as I normally
do and invite the guests to themicrophone and let them
introduce themselves howeverthey wish to.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Andy, the floor is yours, man.
Great, Ron, thanks so much forhaving me.
I really, really am honored tobe on and appreciate the
opportunity.
Uh yeah, I'm Andy Crocker.
I have been in the aerospacebusiness.
I'm an aerospace engineer andbeen in the aerospace business
for 30 years.
Um, when I say aerospace, somepeople think of airplanes, but
but I've always worked on thespace side.
(02:03):
And um, and that means I'veworked with NASA, I've worked
with uh the defense department,I've worked with commercial
space companies uh throughout mycareer, sending satellites and
rockets and uh very things,various things to space.
So uh so that's been my career,and uh uh it's been a it's been
a great career to have.
Um, a lot of exciting projects,uh as you can imagine, in in the
(02:27):
space world.
Um in particular, I've I've beenable to be a leader in in space
and have led uh people andprojects.
And uh one of my one of myrecent projects over the last uh
several years has been uhmanaging a team to develop a
lander to go back to the moon.
And uh, and that's somethingthat was an exciting project.
(02:49):
Uh got had uh successes andfailures with that, and uh both
as a result of that and just aresult of kind of the the normal
things in life, I decided towrite a book uh called The
Unconditionals, uh, which is uhabout values, uh specifically
values that help us as people,as parents, but also as leaders.
(03:11):
And um, and and those values areimportant to me, and I wanted to
share them with with otherpeople.
So I wrote that book.
And uh and you can find out moreabout me and about the book if
you go to andycrockerbooks.com.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Yes, yeah.
Andy, I love it that you keep itsimple.
You know, if you know his name,you can find this book, you can
find out more about hisorganization.
Um, and you can ask somequestions and reach out for
everyone that followed podcastsor anybody that's a podcaster or
looking for other guests,definitely reach out to either
one of us.
Um, and and rate this show.
So I'm telling I'm askingeveryone, please rate the show.
Go out and give us sometestimonials, like us, let
(03:46):
people know, share it with you.
I mean, podcasts are built offof influence and people
supporting you.
So love your support for all ofyou that are listening.
And let's let's jump into it,man.
I mean, I know you got a copy ofthe book, so let's go ahead and
show the book real quick.
And then work, but what else canthey find it other than just
your stuff?
Okay, the unconditionals.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, the unconditional.
So you can find it on uh prettymuch any place that you normally
find books, whether it's on uhe-reader or uh hardback or
paperback or even on audiobook,uh, you can find it on pretty
much every platform.
Uh so you can find it on Amazonif that's your preference, but
certainly uh other platformstoo.
Uh, if you go toandycrockerbooks.com, uh there's
(04:23):
a link there, and it'll it'llliterally literally open up
every uh option that's availableto you, and you can just click
and go to whatever format youlike and and find it there.
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
Yes, I love it.
I love it.
So I'll I'll I'll become apurchaser of it.
I love reading, and I'm alwaysexcited when our guests come
along with the book or somethingthat continues to help me learn
and understand and have theperspectives, which I think is a
unique thing about oh, I see theworld as I'm always thinking,
well, how else can this be doneand how else can it be said and
what else can be done with it?
So if you're listening to us,you know that I'm always trying
(04:52):
to figure out what else.
Uh so let's dive into it.
So let's say, you know, I'm I'mdefinitely interested in your
book.
What would you say you wanted?
You wrote it for a particularreason.
What do you want the readers towalk away with?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Yeah, when so when I first started uh writing it, my
my audience, my target audiencewhen I started was my my
children.
Uh I wanted to write somethingthat I could pass to my children
and say, these are the thingsthat I think are important in
life.
And uh got a couple of monthsinto it and realized this is
more than just a uh back of theenvelope, you know, or or a
(05:28):
notebook that I'm gonna give tomy kids.
This is something that uh ismore than that.
And I really want to, I thinkthese values are important
enough to share with others.
So I decided to turn it into abook that I would that I would
publish and uh and get out tothe community so that others can
can learn from it.
Um, but it's really about, likeI said, it's about values that I
(05:49):
think are fundamental to who weare and how we approach the
world and and more importantly,um how we are fulfilled as
people, um, whether we're umindividual contributors or
leaders in our in our workplace.
SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
Yeah, I love that you say that.
I love that you started writingit for your kids, which means
you wanted to pass on yourvalues to your children, but you
realized it was much deeper thanand bigger than that, and there
are more people that can use it.
A question I often actually dofacilitate leadership workshops
is values.
When you think of that, youknow, on the pack for a second,
sometimes they hand it down toyou by your parents, but as you
(06:30):
get older, minds have changed alittle bit from what my parents
had to me and the world theylived in, how they were raised
and what they did, all thosethings that the world changed.
Have you noticed your valueschanging as you followed your
own identity, uh your own careerhad your own family?
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
Uh yeah, I think I I think I would say in some in
some ways they've changed, insome ways they've they've
solidified.
I think more than anything, Iunderstand them better now.
Um I think uh I understandwhat's important to me now
better than I used to.
Um, and whether it's you knowmanaging large projects and and
(07:09):
coming out of them with asuccess or a failure, uh, I have
you know been able to learnabout myself and learn about
what what's really important,which what the book says is it's
really what's most important iswho we are and and not what we
achieve.
(07:30):
And who we are is created by ismade up of our values.
Our values really determine whowe are.
So so that's um, you know, Ithink more than anything, it's
um uh understanding the valuesthat I have and being able to
write them down and andcommunicate what they're about.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Yeah, I will because you're you're at NASA, you've
been there for a long time, andoftentimes we do uh credit it or
get credit to what we do to makeup who we are, our careers and
our degrees and our titles andour office and been working at
NASA.
That's a that's a big thing.
I mean, you know, I don't get tohave a lot of people on the
(08:10):
podcast that can say they'vebeen at NASA so long doing what
you're doing.
But how do you get away from notmaking it about what you do and
getting back to your values?
Because the world says get aneducation, which I'm not saying
don't.
The world says your title andyour job and what you drive and
where you live in theneighborhood, and all these
other things that that that areassociated with our identity.
Where did you how do you getaway from it just being about
(08:33):
that and get back to yourvalues?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, I that's difficult.
Like you said, you're absolutelyright.
It the world is so um causes usto think that what's important
is what we do and whether weachieve or not, whether we
succeed or not.
And um what I've learned is umthose things are a result of
(08:58):
whether we do things the rightway, and that really depends on
who we are.
And so um, you know, if we putall of our eggs in the basket of
success or or what the worldsays is success, um, we may have
some uh achievements that we canlook at and feel good about, but
we're always, no matter who weare, we're always going to
(09:19):
encounter failure.
And that can really lead us toum question our own self-worth,
question our own um value aspeople.
And that's not healthy, and noris it even right.
The the right way to look atourselves is you know, what are
our values?
And are we living in alignmentwith the values that we have,
(09:41):
who we want to be?
And in that frame, the successesand failures don't matter.
I mean, yes, that they they helpus to uh to grow as people, um,
but but failure, one oneimportant thing that I've
learned as I've as I'vediscovered that values is really
what's important is failure ispart of growth.
(10:04):
It's part of personal growth.
So failure is actually arequirement.
It's something that we have toencounter, and it's not
something that's bad.
It's only bad when we call itbad.
Um, but if we embrace failure aspart of learning about ourselves
and learning to grow andlearning how to do better, then
uh we're gonna have a muchbetter time at um uh feeling
(10:28):
comfortable with who we are andfeeling comfortable that we can
live our values no matter whathappens.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you thank you, Michelle?
How do you, and when you thinkabout you at NASA and you think
about where you are, you've beenthere for years, and you know
how important the mission is andthe work that you do, that we
want to see the space shuttle goup, we know we want to see it
come back safely.
How how do you make sure that inan organization when there are
tight deadlines and people wantto see things done and they're
rushing and want to get it done?
(10:54):
And I'll go back to you know,when I watch the space shuttle
explode, the track accident, andand how we got there, and I read
the story, I read the backdropon it, and I'll be out of
Florida.
How do you make sure that youdon't allow the pressure that's
associated with some careersometimes make you overlook and
bypass or shortcut your values?
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
Yeah.
The yeah, pressure is is a hugedriver in in pushing us away
from our values sometimes.
And that's that's what reallydrove me to create the title for
the book that I wrote, TheUnconditionals, which is the
values that we have, who wereally are, should not depend on
the situation.
(11:34):
It shouldn't depend on us being,you know, in a in a uh
comfortable situation, shouldn'tdepend on us um having no
pressure.
It should be the same set ofvalues, whether we're under
pressure or not, whether we'rein a good situation or a
difficult situation, whethersomeone is gonna treat us well
or not.
(11:54):
In in any situation, thoseshould be constant values.
So when the pressure comes, ifwe've been practicing those
values and we know this is howwe're gonna behave, then we can
maintain the integrity, theaccountability, uh, the purpose,
you know, the perseverance thatwe need to get through the
(12:16):
situation.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
Yeah.
So when you think about, youknow, that that pressure does
happen.
People, what do you tell a youngleader that's coming up, that
wants to get promoted, thatwants to get on that big
project?
And it's important, it'ssignificant to them in their
careers and who they want to beseen as.
How do you how did you managewhen your back was against the
wall to really stay true when noone was watching?
(12:38):
You're the only one there,you're the only one that would
have known that you didn't do itright.
What did you actually put inplace?
You know, help the leaders thatare young, up and coming, and
and on that fence, strong thefence, whether to do it right or
not do it right, whether tovalue it by you, what did you
actually do to make sure youstayed in that life?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Yeah, I so I I think one one critical thing is to so
you're right.
It some people think it's umit's it's really hardest to
maintain your your values,especially integrity, yes, when
you're uh in front of lots ofpeople.
Um, but it it can be just ashard and sometimes harder when
(13:14):
you're when you're alone, whenyou're by yourself, and really
the decisions that you make areonly seen by you.
So um, first of all, I think uhwe need to remind ourselves that
um even if we're the only onewho can see our actions, uh, we
need to align with our stayaligned with our values.
(13:34):
So if so if integrity is one ofour values, and I hope it is for
for most people, then we've gotto maintain that value no matter
what's going on.
And typically it's easy to say,but it really does uh bear out
in the long run, whatever youractions are, they're going to
lead to something.
And so if you take action thatthat is not uh one with
(13:59):
integrity, that it's out ofalignment with that value of
integrity, at some point it'sgoing to come back to you.
And it may not show up rightaway and it may take some some
time, but at some point it'sgoing to uh come back in in a
way that uh that shows that,hey, that's not um you're not
getting the result that you hadhoped because you acted out of
(14:21):
something that's uh that's notaligned with your value.
So what we wanted to try to dois always uh act in alignment
with our value, be consistent inour thoughts and our words and
our actions, so that um whateverhappens when it comes back to
us, we can say, hey, we did whatwas consistent with our values
(14:45):
and we live with the result,whether it's uh success or
failure, but we can becomfortable in the fact that we
did what we thought was right,we did what was consistent with
who we want to be.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Yes, yes.
I want to say one of the thingsthat I think for us, you know,
especially now, is being able topass along something to the
younger generation about how toget it because with social media
the way it is, with everythingbeing captured on camera, a lot
a lot more than it was when Iwas growing up.
You know, you know, we gotcameras, we all be in trouble
right now.
I mean, there's just thingsthat, you know, cameras are
catching everything andeverybody puts everything out.
(15:18):
Can you set a time when yourvalues were tested and and you
had to do the hard right thingversus the easy the wrong thing?
What ruled you back in when thepeer pressure's on, you know,
and for me, like you know, and Igrew up, I grew up in a
community where it was easy toget alcohol or to get access to
drugs.
I chose not to.
(15:39):
And it was it was it wasavailable, it was easy to get,
but I chose not to do it becauseI wanted to be true that I'm not
gonna do those things.
Right.
Where's opportunity where youknow you share and be
transparent with people?
Like, hey, I everybody getstested.
Can you pass the test?
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Right.
Yeah, I think um, you know, asan engineer, uh working as an
aerospace engineer in my career,there are plenty of
opportunities, plenty of timeswhen you know, I'm I'm doing
research and I'm uh I'm uhcoming up with data that I'm
trying to prove a point or I'mtrying to uh convince somebody
that that my particular approachis the best one.
(16:15):
And uh I can decide to fake thedata and make it make my point
look stronger, make me lookbetter, make my research look uh
look more important.
Um I can I can fudge the data ina way that uh that other people
may not uh see, may notrecognize, and and make my
(16:37):
situation look better.
And so that's something that youknow just uh every day as an
engineer we come in contact, wewe we enter encounter is am I
going to um be have integrity inthe way that I present the data,
whether it's positive ornegative, no matter what uh
(16:58):
comes along, I'm going to be umconsistent in in how I present
what I've done, and I'm gonnashow exactly what it comes to.
And if it makes me look good,great.
If it doesn't, uh that's okay.
Um, but what's more important isis how I present myself and how
I'm consistent with who I say Iwant to be.
(17:19):
And what the reason that's mostimportant is people see that.
People see who you are ineverything that you do, the way
you talk, the way you act.
And and if you're not, if youdon't show that consistency and
you aren't having integrity inthe way that you present
yourself and your data in yourin your research, uh, then that
(17:40):
gets noticed.
And and people uh lose trust inyou and and they they don't want
to, you know, don't want to workwith you, don't want to put you
in positions uh where they haveto depend on you.
So it's it's most important toum show your data, show yourself
in a very consistent way thatpeople know, hey, this is
(18:00):
somebody I can count on nomatter what happens.
SPEAKER_02 (18:03):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
Well, I'm thinking as you'retalking and you're sharing the
story, you know, we have accessto AI now.
And it's so easy to go out andget research and do research a
lot faster.
And schools are struggling withis it their data?
Is it well, you know, and givingcredit, you know.
So people are, you know, with AIbeing, it makes you faster.
Um, you still got to do it theright way and you got to give
credit to us.
So if you're listening, AI is agreat thing, but make sure
(18:24):
you're giving credit wherecredit is due and you don't take
it as your own data.
So you have the book out, youknow, you got the
unconditionals, and you talk youtalk a lot about you know
integrity.
What are two other things thatin that book that that that have
been the foundation out of yourvalues?
What are two other values thatare super important to you
that's ground at you over theyears?
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, I'll I'll go ahead and go ahead and name all
five values that are.
Absolutely, yes.
Yeah, yeah, I'll name all fivebecause I I think they're all
important for for us in in theworkplace, you know, as parents,
as as uh friends, uh, but alsoas leaders.
So the values are love,gratitude, integrity,
accountability, and endeavor.
(19:03):
And and all five of those arereally necessary for for leaders
in particular.
Um, but but let me touch on umtwo maybe that uh folks may have
questions about as leaders.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
So touch on love and I'm gonna let you off the hook,
but I'm gonna unpack this loveand leadership because you don't
hear that coming from leaders.
So, you know, whatever you wantto touch on, but can you expand?
Yeah, that's perfect.
Love, man.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, I wanted to touch on that one, Ron, because
that is one where you knowpeople say, look, you know, love
doesn't belong in the workplace.
And the truth is it does.
And here's why.
I I break down love into threeparts.
Uh, one is respect, one iskindness, and the other is
compassion.
So in in the workplace, you'vegot to have respect for
(19:48):
everybody in the workplace,whether they're uh on your side
or not, you know, whetherthey're a competitor or a or a
colleague, um, you've got tohave respect.
And that's something that peoplenotice right away.
You know, are you showing themrespect?
And that comes back at you, orthey're gonna show you respect
as well.
The second is kindness.
Are we treating people with withthe kindness that they deserve
(20:09):
as a human being, you know?
And if you're a leader inparticular, no matter who's on
your team, no matter whetherthey're a high performer or
somebody who is similar to you,uh, or somebody who's got the
same background as you, you'vegotta, you've gotta show them
the kindness that you would wantthem to show you, the kindness
(20:29):
that they deserve as a person.
And then the last piece is iscompassion.
And and what that means as aleader is we not only do we have
sympathy for people that youknow, we understand their
problems, and not only do wehave empathy for people, which
means, you know, we feel the uhthe issues that they're going
(20:49):
through and we try to understandthem.
But compassion is we actuallyact on that.
So we do something to help.
And that means when we've gotsomebody who's working for us as
a leader and they've got adifficult situation, we actively
try to find ways to help uhresolve the situation, to help,
you know, create a better uhsituation for them.
(21:13):
It doesn't mean that, you know,when somebody's not a good
performer and they just theyaren't working out for the team,
it doesn't mean that younecessarily have to uh bend over
backwards to to uh keep them onthe team because many times the
compassionate thing to do is toto help them find another
opportunity.
But it means that we're we'reactively learning about our
(21:34):
people and finding out uh wherethey're having struggles and
working to help them get throughthose struggles, remove the
barriers, and allow them toperform at their best.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Yeah, I love it.
And you walk through and talkabout love because some people
think it's weak, um, or somepeople think it's just giving
people too much.
No, there's an accountability inlove, but it can be done with
kindness.
You know, and and I love thatyou say that because some people
think, well, I gotta be hard orI gotta be mean or I gotta be
direct, and it's just who I am.
And then it has to be kindness.
I mean, do you see people as ahuman being and how would you
(22:07):
want to be treated?
Even when you make a mistake,you know, you can treat people
kind when they make mistakes.
So, what are the other two youwant to unpack?
I know you want to unpack atleast three.
I mean, what are the other twothat you want to unpack that has
been really, really important toyou and your yeah, I'll I'll
jump to the last one that Imentioned.
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
So endeavor, and and and that's one that people say,
well, what is that?
Because it's not one, it's notoften called a value.
But for me, endeavor, what itreally means is doing.
It means uh acting, you know,making uh an effort to uh
produce or or or doing things inin uh in the world.
And the reason I think that's soimportant is you can have the
(22:44):
other four values, you can youcan live in the world and be
alive and and and exist withoutdoing things.
You can be a monk or you know,an ascetic and just uh survive,
but you're not going to make themost of your life.
You're not going to be able togrow as a person if you're not
endeavoring.
And so that's why I think thatvalue is so critical.
(23:06):
And endeavor has a lot of piecesto it.
I won't go through all of it,but but a couple of the key ones
is one, it starts with purpose.
You have a you have a purpose.
What is the what is the visionfor myself?
Where do I where do I need togo?
It requires perseverance, andand that means encountering
issues and learning how toovercome those issues.
And then the thing that reallycomes out of endeavor, the thing
(23:28):
that really is the the reasonfor endeavor is growth.
And that's why I think it's soimportant as a value is we as
people need to grow.
We constantly need to find waysto become better, to do more, to
be more of a contributor to thefamily and to the workplace and
to the community.
And that requires growth as aperson, and that comes from
(23:48):
endeavor.
Ryan, I lost you.
I can't hear you.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Yeah, thanks.
That's on me.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, I mean, thank you forsharing.
I mean, you gave a lot of greatinformation and insight around
the book and the work thatyou're doing and the and the
values.
I want to shift a little bit foryou away from the book.
I want to shift back tosomething that's important.
What role has mentor mentoringplayed in your success?
You know, you've been with NASAfor a while and and you started,
(24:22):
you know, and where you are now.
What role has mentoring playedand how did you find a mentor?
SPEAKER_00 (24:28):
I I've been really fortunate in that the people who
have been my assigned managerskind of throughout my career
have have had a heart formentoring.
And so uh I haven't had to gosearch for mentors.
I've that's just been somethingI've been lucky, uh, where I've
been able to lean on the peoplewho've been my managers and
learn from them, and and they'veall been willing to uh to mentor
(24:52):
me.
So from the first uh jobs I'vehad out of out of college.
Um and then as I've grown, asI've learned, um, I've really
because I've been so fortunateand because I've been able to
learn from from the people whohave been my managers, uh, I've
wanted to mentor others.
And so um once I got to thepoint where I felt like I was a
(25:13):
uh an experienced uh person, anengineer, and you know, leader,
manager, uh I've really lookedfor opportunities to to mentor
others.
Most of the time for me, it'sjust been you know a natural um
something that's just evolvednaturally to where someone
happens to um connect with me,or for whatever reason we come
(25:35):
in contact in a way that thatprovides an opportunity for
mentoring.
And and I really look forward tothose opportunities to share
wisdom about you know placesI've made mistakes and try to
help them avoid those mistakes,or or places where you know
maybe I've made some decisionsthat have worked out and uh and
offer you know suggestions forhow they might do those things.
(25:57):
So again, a lot of it's justbeen uh being in the right
place, uh, the right time.
And I think a lot is also justtaking the opportunities when
they've presented themselves tolearn from others who have that
experience that I can learn fromand then be available to other
people when uh when they'veneeded uh mentoring.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
The last question, then we'llcome back to where the notified
book again, your contactinformation.
Well, why would you tell leadersthat have risen to the point of
making sure that they areconstantly learner?
I mean, the world continues toevolve, things continue to
change.
What do you tell the leader thatthat's sitting in the seat like
you're not that's been aroundfor a while about continuing to
(26:40):
retool, reskill, continue to beassumed to learn?
What would you tell thosepeople?
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah, I that's a great question because I really
do think being a consistentlifelong learner is critical.
It for me, it goes back togrowth.
I think um it's so easy for usto get to a point where we
achieve something, we'resuccessful in something we've
tried to do, and and we want tojust rest on those laurels.
(27:05):
You know, we want to just staywhere we are because it's
comfortable.
Uh, and that that leads tostagnation.
You know, you you kind of saiduh there that it's easy for us
to um uh just stay where we areand not learn about the new
things that the new challengesthat are coming in the world or
the new uh things that we haveto uh to go encounter in our in
(27:28):
our workplace as a leader.
And so we have to keep in mindthat um part of being
unconditional with our endeavoris that we have to constantly be
growing as people.
And that means learning newthings, it means uh figuring out
what challenges are coming thatwe haven't faced before, and
then exposing ourselves to thediscomfort of facing those new
(27:52):
challenges.
So uh just focusing on growth asa person, and I think with that
comes that kind of learning.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
Yeah, I love it.
And I'm sure in the years you'vebeen in NASA, you've watched it
change, you've had to change,you've had to grow.
And and there was a time in mycareer where I was uh very, very
competent, and then somethingchanged, and all of a sudden I
went from this level of highcompetition to I'm not sure what
to do next.
So I felt very incompetent.
(28:19):
How do you close that gap?
Because it changes, and asthat's changed, AI is out.
People say, AI it's gonnareplace humans.
I think it's gonna make usfaster, we'll make the
adjustment and it won't replacehumans.
But how do you make sure you canclose the gap where you go from
this place of being veryconfident and competent to being
incompetent and no confidence?
How do you close that gap?
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Yeah, I well, I I think it requires action.
It requires, you know, thewillingness to the understanding
that you're gonna experiencediscomfort, you're gonna be
uncomfortable with with uhfacing new challenges and just
acknowledging that you know I'mgonna have to do that and then
just stepping into it.
So AI is a great example.
Uh, you know, hey, AI is gonnachallenge uh how we do our our
(29:03):
work in whatever situation weare, whatever job we have.
And let's just, you know, slowlystep into it.
Let me let me go figure out howChat GPT works, let me go
understand these tools and andhow I can use them.
Um, you know, it's not gonna besomething that happens
overnight, but um, but I canslowly step by step become aware
(29:25):
of okay, this is how this thischallenge is gonna um manifest
itself in in my situation.
And by understanding it, by bemaking myself uncomfortable, but
but understanding it better, uh,I'll be better prepared to deal
with it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
Yes, I I love it.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Um Ed, it's been phenomenal.
Let's go back to the book, thetitle of the book, and and where
people can find it.
And then once you finish that,you know, how do people get in
touch with you?
SPEAKER_00 (29:50):
Yeah, thanks uh again.
So the unconditionals is thename of the book.
You can find it uh pretty muchany platform where you normally
look for books.
So If you go toAndycrockerBooks.com, uh, that's
the simplest way.
You can click on a button thereand it'll take you to uh any
place where you normally willfind books.
Uh and again, it's available onany platform.
(30:11):
So if you like to listen tobooks in the car, you can find
the audiobook, uh, e-reader, uh,hard copy, any of those.
Um, and you can also find me onLinkedIn, just uh Andy Crocker,
and I'd be I'd love to interactwith you if you've got questions
about the book or my career oranything.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
That's so awesome.
And if someone reaches out toyou on LinkedIn and want to
purchase the book, how do theyget a signed copy?
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
Yeah, uh, yeah, if you want a signed copy,
absolutely.
Uh LinkedIn would be great.
Just uh just look me up, AndyCrocker, um, on LinkedIn and let
me know you bought the book andwe'll figure it out.
I can I can send you a a uh asigned hard copy.
We can we can make that happen.
SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
Awesome.
And thank you so much.
Thank you.
I mean, phenomenal, and I'm gladto have you on the show and talk
about values and just you knowit comes up in the conversation
and you own a book about it.
And I tell people all the time,like I think we we gotta get
back to the value systems.
Uh I think we've slipped alittle bit and we've kind of let
anything kind of happen withoutanybody speaking up.
Um, and when you don't speak up,you've you've kind of set the
(31:10):
stage a little bit different.
So I think it it takes courageto live your values.
It does.
Yeah, it takes a lot of courage.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
Any any last minute words you want to share with the
audience before we close out?
I I just want to say thank you,uh Ron.
I really appreciate it.
Uh love, love your podcast.
I've listened to some episodesand think you do a great job.
And it's just so important to uhbring uh diverse people from
from different backgrounds withtheir experience.
So I really appreciate what youdo and just thank you for the
(31:37):
opportunity.
SPEAKER_02 (31:38):
Yes, I appreciate all the guests.
Thank you so much for coming on,being yourself and being
authentic and sharing on thispodcast.
It's really just about that,like bringing people with all
backgrounds to the show to sharesomething that's gonna help our
audience.
And you've done a phenomenal jobin order to the audience.
Hopefully, y'all have enjoyedit.
Hopefully, you share it withsome of your colleagues and your
friends.
If you want to reach NDRI,definitely I'm on LinkedIn.
(31:59):
Um, if most professionals,you'll find us on LinkedIn.
If you listen to the podcast,you're not on LinkedIn, get on
LinkedIn.
Um, it's the professionalplatform.
Uh I know there are tons ofsocial media out there, but I'm
on LinkedIn.
It's probably the one I use morethan I use any other one.
If you're not using the AI,figure it out.
Get on there.
And the the as a matter of fact,every day that you wait, the
further you fall behind becauseit's changing so fast.
(32:20):
So, you know, I have to be on AIevery day because it changes so
fast.
And the last thing I'll leavewith you build great
relationships with people.
Don't burn bridges you mustcross.
People always matter.
Take care of your team, and yourteam will take care of you.
And until next time, and then Iwill sign off and tell you,
please go right and review ourpodcast.
Um, tell your friends about us.
(32:41):
Love to have more participationand support in the podcast.
Um, love what we do.
Thank y'all so much, and y'allhave a wonderful day.
And until next time, we're gonnasign off.
Uh, have a great one, everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks Sound Advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are or the people youserve.
(33:14):
Because people always matter.
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