October 20, 2025 • 29 mins
We explore what happens when results outrun relationships and how to rebuild trust through apology, transparency, and small daily practices that steady your leadership. Robin Kamrode shares stories from federal teams, mid-career crossroads, and the moment half her team quit—and what turned it around.
• making work a better place through connection and clarity
• the Friday resignations and the power of a sincere apology
• avoiding the trap of chasing metrics over people
• getting unstuck by deciding with imperfect information
• leading without answers using radical transparency
• focusing energy on control and influence, not concern
• a simple morning ritual with three grounding questions
• continuous learning to avoid unconscious incompetence
• feedback as data and using Q-TIP to lower defensiveness
• who Robin helps and how to connect on LinkedIn
Join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice—real answers for real leadership challenges.
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
And good morning, everyone.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, Chief Operating
Officer for Global CourseStrategies and Consulting, which
is a professional leadershipdevelopment firm.
And we spend all of our time tomake it really easy helping
leaders be better, connected,and productive to take care of
their teams and get results atthe end of the day in an
environment that people want tobe in.
So our whole goal and what theway we operate is really how do
(00:42):
we help you be better to createan environment that people
really want to come to work andthey love what they're doing and
supporting what you're doing?
But we pause every single uhMonday and release a podcast
with guests from around theworld, unpacked with Ron Harvey.
I can only tell you that we'regoing to talk about leadership.
Outside of that, it's going togo wherever it goes.
So if you've been around andyou've watched us, you know we
(01:04):
have fun.
We know we let you behind thecurtain, but we don't know the
next question.
Um, but I'm happy to have aguest and always let our um, you
know, provide space for ourguests to really introduce
themselves and share what theywant to share.
Um, so I don't read bios.
If you follow me, you know Idon't read bios um because I
want it to be authentic.
I want it to be, and most oftenI never remember a bio when you
read it anyway.
So I let people share what theywant to share.
(01:25):
So I'm gonna invite our guests.
Uh she's coming in out ofVirginia area, super excited to
have her.
Um, I'll let her tell you herstory of what she wants to know.
We talked in the green room, butlet me let me go ahead and pass
the microphone and do yourintroduction for us, Robin, and
we'll get started once youfinish.
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Great.
Well, Ron, thank you so much.
And it is such a pleasure to behere with you today and with
your audience.
My name is Robin Kamrode.
I am a leadership developmenttrainer and uh career coach.
And one thing that attracted meto one thing I love about your
podcast and I love about yourmission that really resonates
(02:01):
with me is this desire to work,make work a better place to be,
uh, because we all spend so muchtime here.
And it doesn't have to bemiserable, you know.
And I think when we bring someintention and some curiosity to,
you know, how we work togetherand how we work better with
others, it just makes it all theall the more fulfilling.
(02:23):
So thank you, Ron.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Yes, thank you, Robin, for for sharing that.
You know, so Robin knows she'susing those culture words and
their curiosity.
So we know we're gonna dive intothat and help people get it.
And she's really speaking thelanguage of how do you really
make work fun in a place wherepeople want to be?
So you're in Virginia, um, andyou're you've been in the
leadership space, you're in thecoaching space.
What attracted you to evengetting into leadership?
(02:45):
Where did it all start at foryou to even caring or being
curious enough to take this leapbecause it's work and we make it
look easy, but what drew whatdrew you to it?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Yeah, well, you know, I I sometimes say that um
I've been a manager my wholelife.
I am the oldest of fourchildren, the oldest girl, and I
was that bossy big sister.
So all growing up, you know, Iwas directing people and kind
of, you know, bossing themaround, telling my siblings
where they needed to be and whenand all that.
(03:14):
So, you know, there were therewere times where, you know,
whether it was group projects inschool or other kind of um early
jobs, where I kind of justnaturally started trying to
organize things and kind of movethem in in kind of like toward
towards a goal.
I do love goals.
So when I actually got aprofessional, you know, started
(03:35):
my professional career, um I wasinterested in it, but really
focused on just doing the best Icould, being a really strong
individual contributor.
And what happened for me, Ithink happens for so many
people, is when you are good atwhat you should do and you're
recognized for that, then you'rekind of asked to take on more.
And that was that was the casefor me.
So it was kind of something thatum naturally evolved.
(03:56):
But Ron, I'll tell you, thereare some people out there that
may be a little bit morenaturally inclined to be leaders
and managers.
That really was not the case forme in a professional
environment.
I hit a roadblock a couple ofyears into that process that was
just devastating.
And it was a wake-up call for meto say, look, I need to take
this seriously, and I can't wingit.
I really needed to get someprofessional training, I needed
(04:19):
a coach for myself, and I neededto read everything I possibly
could about leadership so that Icould be that leader that I
wanted to be for my team.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yes, yes.
I love that you unpacked it,Robin.
Like, how did you get into it?
And you hit a roadblock becausepeople will watch us and no,
we've we are we're we we'velearned a little bit, we've
studied a little bit, we've hadsome trial and errors, and they
see the final, the final productor the product that's gotten
better, not even final, butwhat's gotten better over years.
And we make it look simple andwe make it look easy.
(04:50):
What was what was the thing thatreally, when you hit the
roadblock, what was the thingthat made you really pause, you
know, for the listeners and say,I need to get help
professionally, reading,coaching, whatever that may look
like.
What what was the thing thatmade you realize stop robbing?
You need to get something, youdon't have it all that you need
to have internally.
What made you what happened?
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
It was one um one really devastating Friday
afternoon, Ron, when one afteranother after another, half of
my team quit.
unknown (05:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And I was just crushed.
And and I have to say, it it itin that moment, it was a huge
wake-up call.
But the reality is that therewere signs long before that.
People would come to me and tryto uh you know talk to me about
kind of some of the things theywere frustrated with or things
that I was doing that was washolding them back, and I
couldn't hear it.
(05:40):
I was so focused on trying tomake our client happy and trying
to make my boss happy and justtrying to keep all the trains
running on time that I couldn'thear them.
And so that was a huge wake-upcall for me.
And um I just I told myself, Isaid, in that moment, I said, if
I do nothing else in my career,I want to be a good manager.
That's it.
And uh so it was a bigturnaround for me.
(06:02):
I really had to come back inthat next week and start with a
big apology and really commit tothe personal development needed
to really um be the kind ofmanager I wanted to be for my
team.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Wow.
Thank you for the transparency.
And it's really unpacked.
And I tell people we really likeyou, like we tell you like real.
This is this we live life justlike you live life.
And I will tell you, um, what'sthe trap that leaders fall in,
Robin, to to make sure that youare meeting deadlines, you are
looking at profit and loss, youare looking at all those things.
What's the trap of like chasingsuccess and losing connection?
(06:37):
Because it sounds like, hey, I'mwinning all in these other
places, but the people that aregetting it done, I don't hear
them, I don't see them, theydon't feel valued, and it's
causing a disconnect.
And it's a fact how often doleaders fall into that trap?
SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
Well, you know, um I you know, unfortunately, I see
it a lot.
You know, I'd be curious to seekind of what you, you know, what
you're seeing in your work aswell.
And and I don't think um, Idon't think it's people are uh
mean or have bad intentions.
I think we're busy.
And I think a lot of times injust the interest of like
keeping up and trying to keepthings moving, we prioritize uh,
(07:14):
you know, maybe certain thingsabout operating the business
over connecting with people.
And the, you know, and I thinkthe other thing is that we just
kind of make some assumptionsabout what people need without
really taking the time to slowdown and just ask them and
really understand like what theyneed from us.
Um, and so I think when we makeassumptions and we we kind of
fail to slow down and payattention, that that's when we
(07:37):
can fall into that trap.
SPEAKER_02 (07:39):
Oh, yes, yes.
Um, this is spot on uh unpackit.
So so you you fast forward, yourealize that you you gotta kind
of do things different and youget the help, and you you walk
in and make the apology.
How important was it?
And that's for everybodylistening.
For you as the leader, theowner, the person that
everybody, you know, the personthat says, Hey, I'm a boss, I
like to put things together.
How important and whatdifference did it make when you
(08:01):
came in and apologized?
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
Well, um, for me, I think it made all the difference
because everyone knew there wasno hiding it.
You know, I think sometimes wemake mistakes and we try to
cover them up.
Um, but in this pay, in thiscase, there was no covering it
up.
I mean, it was clearly outthere.
Um, and then so for me, I thinkjust kind of being showing some
acknowledgement that I had madea mistake, that I realized how
(08:27):
um impactful that had been in anegative way for so many people.
And and just sharing that, youknow, I'm human, I really want
to make this work.
And I need the the people whoare remaining on the team, like
I needed them.
I needed their feedback, Ineeded them to take a leap of
faith that I was going to beable to follow through and do it
and to kind of go with me onthis journey.
(08:48):
And uh so that that I think thatapology, and it was the it was
the first of many, and I thinkthis is one thing that um, you
know, it's a simple thing that Ithink many leaders can do to
build some of that connection isjust call it, like call it like
you see it on yourself withlike, hey, you know, that just
really didn't go as well as Ihad hoped, or what my intention
was, and here's what I'm tryingto do to fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Yes, I love it, I love it.
So let's lead into, I mean,phenomenal.
I mean, I'm glad that you unpackit in real time.
Let you spend a you spend a bulkof the time and you look at
your, you know, you go to ourwebsite, you look at what she's
doing in her organization, youspend a lot of time helping
people that are really good,very talented, but getting
stuck.
Can you unpack a little bitabout the work that you do and
(09:31):
people that are listening?
Because right now, people arestuck, things are chaotic for
people across the board.
Like, what what does it looklike to help people get unstuck?
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
Yeah, yeah.
I do I do see this a lot.
And and it's like now lookingback, um, I can see different
points in my own career or otherpeople I was working with, that
they were in fact stuck.
And and it can feel like justbeing frustrated and like there
can be like confusion.
And the biggest thing I think isthat this worry that we're gonna
(10:04):
make the wrong decision.
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:06):
And so we get in this cycle of analyzing and
looking for more data andrunning scenarios and trying to
imagine what it's gonna be like,and we get in this there, this
cycle of kind of worry andspeculation.
And what I found is that like toa certain extent, we have to
collect some data.
I mean, like, so I'm not takinganything away from that, but at
(10:26):
a certain point, we have to say,you know what, I'm never gonna
have perfect information.
There are no real right or wrongdecisions because we're bringing
ourselves with us.
And I just, if we can have thetrust in ourselves that look,
I'm gonna do the best I possiblycan with this, and at the next
logical point, I'll be able tomake another decision.
And so taking the pressure offof any one decision, I think
(10:49):
helps us just be able to getinto action and move forward.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Yes, yeah.
It's I love it.
It's leadership has changed inyour time frame and mine as
well, and and the workforce haschanged and access to
information is all that'schanged.
How do you help leaders thatstill are in that space getting
stuck while they feel likethey're supposed to have all the
right answers all the time?
Because you know, there can besome unwritten rules or
(11:13):
expectations that that you mayput on your or your organization
may put on you that you musthave the answer, or you get
minimized, marginalized, or youdon't look as competent as you
you need to look.
How do you always get unstuckout of feel like I gotta always
have the answers?
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
And this is so incrediblyrelevant right now.
I do quite a bit of work withum, I'm fortunate to be able to
do work uh with the federalgovernment and with some federal
government contractors.
And some of my clients now havebeen in this place where um
decision authority has shiftedpretty dramatically in the last
couple of months.
And with, you know, um deferredresignation and riffs and all of
(11:49):
this stuff going on,traditionally leaders would have
very much been a part of all ofthat process, all that analysis
and that decision-makingprocess.
But the reality is that inrecent months they haven't been.
And it's been very difficult forsome people to go to their teens
and say, look, we just don'tknow.
And I, you know, and be astransparent as they possibly
(12:11):
can.
And those leaders that I workwith that were able to say,
look, I wish I knew more, but Idon't, and I'm sharing
everything I possibly can.
And we're here, we're in ittogether.
We're gonna figure this outtogether.
Those are the ones that I thinkum had better connection and
success with those, their teams,versus those that felt like,
(12:32):
well, I don't have any answers,so I'm not gonna say anything.
And they pulled back.
And they are really struggling,and I know their teams are
struggling too.
So um, it does feel like a casestudy right now that we're in
the middle of that they're uhkind of an extreme that many
leaders, at least in federalright now, have been kind of
taken out of that traditional umjust awareness in that
(12:54):
decision-making process.
But when they owned it and justwere transparent about that,
that they actually got moreconnection with their people.
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Yes, yes.
Love it that you're sharing it.
What do you tell the leader thatthat's in that situation where
they have been removed from thedecision-making process, you
know, two or three levels, andthey don't have answers, but and
and they go and they'retransparent, but they're
personally struggling.
What do you think you to help?
Because they will be struggling,you know, there's the people
that's left behind, the peoplethat are going to be out of out
of out of a job for for avariety of reasons, but also the
(13:26):
people that are in in theleadership roles but can't
protect their workforce anymore.
How do you go?
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Yeah, I think it's a great question.
I think what you know, so Idon't have all the answers, but
a couple of things that I liketo talk about with people is
focusing on what's within yourcontrol.
Yes, because there's so muchright now.
And I love that cobby model, youknow, where it's a circle of um
influence or circle of concern,excuse me, circle of influence
and circle of concern.
And when we can look at thattogether and say, look, there is
(13:54):
so much going on out there rightnow that that is we're certainly
concerned about it, but we don'treally have any control and very
even limited influence.
And and and so essentially we'rekind of wasting our energy and
wasting our um, you know, ourour like our spirit, you know,
on trying to worry about thatstuff.
(14:15):
So to the extent that we cansay, okay, let's refocus on
what's within our control, bothfor leaders and to share that as
an advice with their teams,like, hey, let's kind of like
let's just reconnect because wecan always control how we're
showing up, we can alwayscontrol how we're treating each
other, and we can always controlthe quality of work that we're
doing.
There's so much that's stillwithin our power, and kind of
(14:37):
like taking that power backinstead of feeling um kind of
you know, almost as a victim toeverything else that's kind of
going on.
SPEAKER_02 (14:45):
Yes, yes.
I and I think that's importantfor everyone that's listening is
really you know sitting down andseeing what you do have control
of.
And there's a ton that you wishyou did, but that's changed.
But what you do have control ofis making sure that you, as a
leader, respect your team,you're transparent with your
team, you're open and honestwith your team, and you let them
and be vulnerable with yourteam.
They want to know that you'rehuman too, and you're going
(15:06):
through some of the same things.
And sometimes that puts peopleat ease that that they're on the
journey with you versus theyjust happen to be on the same
road with you.
Um, and I think that makes ahuge force.
Let me shift a little bit foryou, Robin.
In leadership, you know, one ofthe things you know, we both run
businesses, we have families,and life is busy for everybody.
What would you say to theaudience that's listening how to
(15:26):
do the mental health andwell-being as a leader?
Because often leaders are thelast to do it.
What advice do you give to thoseto leaders like you and I to
slow down and take care ofthemselves with mental health
and well-being?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, this is such a greatquestion.
And I'll I'll just be honestthat there's some days or weeks
I'm better at it than others.
And when I would say when I'mfollowing my practice, when I'm
in my routine, that that's whenkind of things are working.
And so for me, what that is ismy my most favorite part of the
day is first thing in themorning.
(16:00):
I like to get up early.
I love a cup of black coffee,you know, get my get my dogs
situated, and then I sit downand I do some journaling.
I do a very short, um, justquiet kind of like reflection,
just a few minutes of juststillness, and then I do my
journaling.
Um, and for me, there are threequestions that I ask myself
every day, and it helps kind ofset up the intention.
(16:21):
So the first question is, am Iworking today or am I resting?
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
And so, okay, I get clear on that because and it
can't, and you know, there's noright answer here, of course.
And in in the so anyway, so Iget my head around, am I working
today or am I resting?
The second question is, am Icreating or am I consuming?
So I I love to write, I likedoing some speaking, but I also
like learning, a kind of a moreconsumption process or just kind
(16:48):
of observing what other peopleare doing.
So there has to be a balancethere.
And the third question is, am Iopen or am I closed?
Now, I will say most days, Ifeel pretty open.
I love talking to people and Ilike being out there and all
that, but there are some dayswhen it can feel like it's too
much.
And so then I just kind of needto shut down just a little bit,
kind of retreat, take a littlebreak, and then you know, and
(17:11):
then the next day reconsider it.
But those three questions forme, it's almost like setting a
little intention for the day sothat then what as the day goes
on and we know things alwayshappen.
I'm like, bring myself back tolike, wait a second, I'm working
today and I'm open, so I need tokind of think about this a
little differently because Ialready made that commitment to
myself.
SPEAKER_02 (17:29):
Yes, I I love it.
So, you know, you've given themseveral questions now that you
start your day off with.
So you're hearing reality,you're unpacking.
Here's how she functions, youknow, so she can stay, and the
day is going to happen, but atleast you start off with
intentionality.
What do you tell the leader thatfeels guilty about taking time
for themselves?
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Oh my gosh.
I love this analogy of put youroxygen manager first.
You know, I know you know it.
I know you probably have tocoach yourself at times to do
it, especially yeah, being uh,you know, having a family,
because we do this as parents,we do this as people in our
communities, we do this um a lotis to kind of put others uh
first.
I do um I think that's real.
(18:06):
I mean, I really do um try toremind myself, try to remind
others gently that when we putour oxygen mask on first, we're
just that much more able to umto help other people.
And we know, you know, whenyou're kind of like getting
towards maybe not full burnout,but you know when you're kind of
wearing yourself out and and tobe proactive and just take that
(18:27):
time time away.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Yes, yes.
But I'm so Ron, you you thinkabout you're an entrepreneur,
um, you know, you're you'redoing the thing that that keeps
everybody busy.
What do you do to make sure thatyou stay ahead of your game?
You know, if you go back andlook at like where you are in
business now, you gotta, Ibelieve that you always gotta
get better.
How do you speak to people toeveryone about you must, if
you're gonna be in whether it'sin corporate America or you've
(18:51):
been an entrepreneur, whateverthat solopreneur, whatever
you're doing, what advice do yougive people that get complacent
and comfortable that like wherethey are is good enough?
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Yeah, I think this is a real risk.
I I really do.
Well, I think a good place tostart is listening to Unpacked
Podcasts.
So you're getting you know, putyourself in a position to be
exposed to all different kindsof ideas, even some that you
might not, you know, notnecessarily agree with or that
you wouldn't already, you know,even normally be attracted to.
So I think we have to kind ofput ourselves in a place to um,
(19:23):
you know, to be a learner.
And that can look like you know,all different kinds of things.
But I do think there is,especially when we get busy, um,
and we've all worked with peoplelike this who like really you
can tell just by talking tothem, to work with leaders like
this, that they were they'recarrying ideas forward that now
are almost a decade old.
(19:43):
You can tell they haven't kindof refreshed it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
And so I I do think it doesn't have to be
overwhelming and it doesn't haveto look like any anybody else's,
you know, process, but reallyhaving some some way to expose
yourself to new ideas where andif that's reading, I personally
love podcasts because I can dotwo things at once.
Um just getting in conversationor doing copies with people that
(20:08):
you wouldn't normally talk to,just so you can hear what else
is going on.
And then that always sparks acuriosity.
They're like, huh, I want to go,I want to follow that a little
bit more and find out more.
SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Yes, yes.
Because unfortunately, if youdon't, you you'll become
unconsciously incompetentbecause you're just not keeping
up.
Um it will fade away.
How do you help people ask forand embrace feedback?
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Oh, this is tough.
It's tough.
I I'll I'll say that um thisthis is something that I'm
still, you know, that I I workon myself.
Um you know, I I I think there'sum well one thing I I guess I
try to remind myself is that youknow, feedback is a data point.
SPEAKER_02 (20:53):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
And it's a data point often when we get feedback
at work, it's a data point aboutwhat somebody else needs from
you in that moment.
Like it doesn't really, it's notreally about you, it's not about
Ron, it's not about Robin.
It's like it's just a datapoint.
And with that data point, youhave a choice.
Does this kind of click withyou?
Does it align with kind of whereyou want to go?
(21:15):
Is it useful to you?
Great.
Then it's a gift and that'swonderful.
Sometimes you get feedback,you're like, okay, like that's
their opinion, and I'm justgonna leave it there and I'm
gonna move on.
Um, but I think, you know,similar to your question about
how you continue to, you know,um build your skills to the
extent that we can put ourselvesinto the position of getting
(21:38):
feedback, it's you know, it'skind of the other side of that
coin, you know, because we dothen get some additional
information on just how we canshow up and be more effective.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Yes, yes.
What do you tell, you know, aswe we look at time for for our
audience, what do you tell thatthe feedback, the person that's
given it doesn't do it well, butbut it's still accurate.
How do you get out of yourfeelings because the person
didn't do a good delivery?
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
Yeah, yeah.
And and I don't know about you,but sometimes I feel like this
issue that you just pinpointedis at the heart of so many
challenges that we have inbusiness.
Yes, you know, like if we wereall better at these crucial
conversations and able to kindof separate ourselves
emotionally from them and justkind of take it, you know, for
(22:22):
what it was, like how much likeit's so much friction is created
in our organizations because ofthis particular issue.
So um I do think it requires acertain amount of just kind of
emotional maturity to say, look,like I don't like the way he
said it.
And and honestly, like ifanyone, you know, deals with
young people, I get a lot offeedback from my kids.
(22:43):
I would I would argue that weare the lily green is not good,
it's not good.
Um, but I can but like so you Ican kind of laugh sometimes
about that.
Sometimes I'm like, I just needto take a break.
But um so if we can hear reallyhear the message and not it and
(23:03):
really try not to kind of makeit about us, like us being you
know, bad or a bad person oranything like that, then there
can be some mute usefulness inthere.
But I do think it requires justa certain amount of kind of
emotional management and bigpicture too.
Like it's just yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
I'll tell you on our team for people that listen,
they probably heard it, youknow, if they follow the
podcast.
Um, on our team, we we got a uhacronym with uh q-tip, you know.
Uh I tell people I say q tip it.
You know, when somebody's takingit, we say q-tip it, and it
means quit taking it personal.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
And and we literally in our company, you when you
hear say hey q-tip it, Ron,like, yeah, you're right.
I'm trying to get in myfeelings.
I'm supposed to do it.
It's like a reality check in anice way, like, hey, it wasn't
meant to be personal.
Now it requires you topersonally do something to get
better, but it wasn't a dig atyou, it was a opportunity to
help you get better.
So, hey, q-tip it for us.
(23:56):
Um, here's here's what we needyou to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
Yeah, oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Yeah, it is people like man.
I say, Yeah, we we say it in thecompany, we've kind of you know,
we put it out there, like, hey,get out of it, get the feelings
out of the way.
We we we have the things we needto get done.
So, Robin, you're in businessand you've done a phenomenal
job.
I want to make sure that we welet people know how to reach
you.
Um, and but I want to leave withone question first.
What are some things that may begoing on in people in an
(24:21):
organizational with the peoplethat you care to work with, your
potential clients?
What are some things they may beexperiencing that says they
should pick up the phone andcall you and then tell us how to
reach you?
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah, well, I so appreciate I appreciate that.
Um, so I kind of do twodifferent things, they're
related.
I work with both individuals,kind of in a career coaching
capacity, but I also work withleadership teams, um, you know,
in kind of a in a similarspirit, like how teams can work
better together to achieve theirobjectives.
So if you are an individual andyou're mid-career and you're
(24:52):
asking yourself this question,like, is this it?
Like, is this it?
Or like, is this it?
Then I can help.
I have been there myself.
And that is a just an it's anindication that not necessarily
something has gone wrong, butthere is a calling, there's an
opportunity to kind of take astep back where you are in your
career.
(25:12):
Because many of us are kind oflooking, I'm, you know, maybe
some, maybe two-thirds of theway through at this point, and I
want, you know, and I think alot of us want impact.
And if you're not quite sureyou're having the impact that
you want, then now's a greattime to kind of determine what
that is and get on track.
So that, so mid-career people, Iwould love to talk to you.
(25:33):
Um, on the leadership team side,I work with mostly um highly
technical teams, the engineersand uh, you know, construction
folks and people who are highlytechnical that are struggling
to, the team is struggling tokind of take the step out of
that awesome individualcontributor to really
functioning as a businessleader.
So if you're uh leading one ofthose technical teams and you
(25:55):
really just need them to step upand kind of take some more
business ownership, I can helpwith that too.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Wow, phenomenal.
And that's and both of those areneeded, you know.
So when you think about your ownprofessional development or from
technical to becoming a leader,which is so different because
it's hard to get out of thathands-on approach.
What's the most effective wayfor people to make contact with
you?
What can they find out moreabout you, you know, for
bringing in your services?
And I say this for everyonethat's listening.
Robin and I are in the samespace.
(26:19):
And I tell people we collaborateversus compete.
You know, you want to make sureyou have healthy relationships
with people that do what you do,they'll actually make you
better.
You know, so there's anexpectation that if Robin and I
are working with each other, weshould make each other better.
Otherwise, why are we reallydoing it?
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
I I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
That's the reality.
That's why you know the show.
I say, come on, let's have fun,let's talk.
You know, so please, what's thebest way for people to reach
you?
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Well, my absolute favorite is I I love LinkedIn.
I love when people reach out onLinkedIn.
So yeah, you can find me atRobin Camero and just either
send me a direct message or aconnection request.
I would just love to meet there.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Awesome, awesome.
Are you also interested in doingmore podcasts?
Because we have people that alsohost their podcast that listen
to our show that are looking forguests.
Um, so I would love to make surethat they know hey, if you're
interested, you know, you candrop information.
How do they reach you?
And if you're interested.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:08):
Yes, awesome, awesome.
So I'm gonna do a couple ofthings, Rob.
I'm gonna go through a summaryreal quick and then I'm gonna
hand you the microphone thatcloses out.
So, whatever you want to leavethem with for food for thought
at the end, I always leave it upto our guests to close us out.
So, for everyone that'slistening, again, Ron Harvey,
unpacked, you know, leadershipdevelopment consultant, love
doing what we do, but moreimportantly, love adding value
to make a difference to whatyou're trying to achieve.
(27:30):
Are you the best leader that youcan be?
And if you're if the people thatare watching you that you're
leading could pick one leader inthe room out of a hundred, would
they pick you?
If they would, let's define why.
If they won't, let's understandso we can get to the place where
they will select you.
Our job is to make you effectiveat taking care of your team at
the end of the day.
That's what leaders do.
We serve to make sure thatthings get done.
(27:51):
Very rarely are we the onesdoing the work anymore if you
get to the leisure role, ifyou're doing it correctly.
How do you make sure you'redoing it right so they can be
the best that they can be?
And that's what leaders do.
They let they literally helppeople bring the best version of
themselves to get stuff done.
So I'm gonna pause here and tellyou thank you for joining us.
Thank you for watching andalways tell people about the
Unpacked Leadership Podcast.
Um love to have you as a guestif you're if you have something
(28:14):
that you want to offer to ouraudience, but love for you to
share the link for people thatcan listen for the 20 to 25
minutes that we share.
At this time, I'm gonna hand itback to Robin and she's gonna
drop some nuggets on you.
So hopefully you'll take notesand writing it down, but she's
gonna leave you with some somewisdom as we close out.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
Well, Merlin, thank you so much.
This is just so much fun.
And I think we are just kindredspirits in in uh I I love the
work that you're doing and withthe spirit of generosity that
you bring to it.
So, what I would leave you withis my firm belief that action
unlocks impact.
And when we are feeling stuck orjust not having the kind of uh
(28:50):
impact that we want in ourlives, on our teams, in our
communities, and so forth, thatthat first step is just getting
into motion.
So, identify one small step youcan take today that'll build on
the next, it'll build on thenext and get you into action to
have that kind of impact youdesire.
SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
Awesome.
Thank you.
Y'all have a wonderful one untilnext time.
We'll sign it off.
Y'all have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks Sound Advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are or the people youserve.
(29:35):
Because people always matter.
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
And good morning, everyone.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, Chief Operating
Officer for Global CourseStrategies and Consulting, which
is a professional leadershipdevelopment firm.
And we spend all of our time tomake it really easy helping
leaders be better, connected,and productive to take care of
their teams and get results atthe end of the day in an
environment that people want tobe in.
So our whole goal and what theway we operate is really how do
(00:42):
we help you be better to createan environment that people
really want to come to work andthey love what they're doing and
supporting what you're doing?
But we pause every single uhMonday and release a podcast
with guests from around theworld, unpacked with Ron Harvey.
I can only tell you that we'regoing to talk about leadership.
Outside of that, it's going togo wherever it goes.
So if you've been around andyou've watched us, you know we
(01:04):
have fun.
We know we let you behind thecurtain, but we don't know the
next question.
Um, but I'm happy to have aguest and always let our um, you
know, provide space for ourguests to really introduce
themselves and share what theywant to share.
Um, so I don't read bios.
If you follow me, you know Idon't read bios um because I
want it to be authentic.
I want it to be, and most oftenI never remember a bio when you
read it anyway.
So I let people share what theywant to share.
(01:25):
So I'm gonna invite our guests.
Uh she's coming in out ofVirginia area, super excited to
have her.
Um, I'll let her tell you herstory of what she wants to know.
We talked in the green room, butlet me let me go ahead and pass
the microphone and do yourintroduction for us, Robin, and
we'll get started once youfinish.
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Great.
Well, Ron, thank you so much.
And it is such a pleasure to behere with you today and with
your audience.
My name is Robin Kamrode.
I am a leadership developmenttrainer and uh career coach.
And one thing that attracted meto one thing I love about your
podcast and I love about yourmission that really resonates
(02:01):
with me is this desire to work,make work a better place to be,
uh, because we all spend so muchtime here.
And it doesn't have to bemiserable, you know.
And I think when we bring someintention and some curiosity to,
you know, how we work togetherand how we work better with
others, it just makes it all theall the more fulfilling.
(02:23):
So thank you, Ron.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Yes, thank you, Robin, for for sharing that.
You know, so Robin knows she'susing those culture words and
their curiosity.
So we know we're gonna dive intothat and help people get it.
And she's really speaking thelanguage of how do you really
make work fun in a place wherepeople want to be?
So you're in Virginia, um, andyou're you've been in the
leadership space, you're in thecoaching space.
What attracted you to evengetting into leadership?
(02:45):
Where did it all start at foryou to even caring or being
curious enough to take this leapbecause it's work and we make it
look easy, but what drew whatdrew you to it?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Yeah, well, you know, I I sometimes say that um
I've been a manager my wholelife.
I am the oldest of fourchildren, the oldest girl, and I
was that bossy big sister.
So all growing up, you know, Iwas directing people and kind
of, you know, bossing themaround, telling my siblings
where they needed to be and whenand all that.
(03:14):
So, you know, there were therewere times where, you know,
whether it was group projects inschool or other kind of um early
jobs, where I kind of justnaturally started trying to
organize things and kind of movethem in in kind of like toward
towards a goal.
I do love goals.
So when I actually got aprofessional, you know, started
(03:35):
my professional career, um I wasinterested in it, but really
focused on just doing the best Icould, being a really strong
individual contributor.
And what happened for me, Ithink happens for so many
people, is when you are good atwhat you should do and you're
recognized for that, then you'rekind of asked to take on more.
And that was that was the casefor me.
So it was kind of something thatum naturally evolved.
(03:56):
But Ron, I'll tell you, thereare some people out there that
may be a little bit morenaturally inclined to be leaders
and managers.
That really was not the case forme in a professional
environment.
I hit a roadblock a couple ofyears into that process that was
just devastating.
And it was a wake-up call for meto say, look, I need to take
this seriously, and I can't wingit.
I really needed to get someprofessional training, I needed
(04:19):
a coach for myself, and I neededto read everything I possibly
could about leadership so that Icould be that leader that I
wanted to be for my team.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yes, yes.
I love that you unpacked it,Robin.
Like, how did you get into it?
And you hit a roadblock becausepeople will watch us and no,
we've we are we're we we'velearned a little bit, we've
studied a little bit, we've hadsome trial and errors, and they
see the final, the final productor the product that's gotten
better, not even final, butwhat's gotten better over years.
And we make it look simple andwe make it look easy.
(04:50):
What was what was the thing thatreally, when you hit the
roadblock, what was the thingthat made you really pause, you
know, for the listeners and say,I need to get help
professionally, reading,coaching, whatever that may look
like.
What what was the thing thatmade you realize stop robbing?
You need to get something, youdon't have it all that you need
to have internally.
What made you what happened?
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
It was one um one really devastating Friday
afternoon, Ron, when one afteranother after another, half of
my team quit.
unknown (05:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And I was just crushed.
And and I have to say, it it itin that moment, it was a huge
wake-up call.
But the reality is that therewere signs long before that.
People would come to me and tryto uh you know talk to me about
kind of some of the things theywere frustrated with or things
that I was doing that was washolding them back, and I
couldn't hear it.
(05:40):
I was so focused on trying tomake our client happy and trying
to make my boss happy and justtrying to keep all the trains
running on time that I couldn'thear them.
And so that was a huge wake-upcall for me.
And um I just I told myself, Isaid, in that moment, I said, if
I do nothing else in my career,I want to be a good manager.
That's it.
And uh so it was a bigturnaround for me.
(06:02):
I really had to come back inthat next week and start with a
big apology and really commit tothe personal development needed
to really um be the kind ofmanager I wanted to be for my
team.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Wow.
Thank you for the transparency.
And it's really unpacked.
And I tell people we really likeyou, like we tell you like real.
This is this we live life justlike you live life.
And I will tell you, um, what'sthe trap that leaders fall in,
Robin, to to make sure that youare meeting deadlines, you are
looking at profit and loss, youare looking at all those things.
What's the trap of like chasingsuccess and losing connection?
(06:37):
Because it sounds like, hey, I'mwinning all in these other
places, but the people that aregetting it done, I don't hear
them, I don't see them, theydon't feel valued, and it's
causing a disconnect.
And it's a fact how often doleaders fall into that trap?
SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
Well, you know, um I you know, unfortunately, I see
it a lot.
You know, I'd be curious to seekind of what you, you know, what
you're seeing in your work aswell.
And and I don't think um, Idon't think it's people are uh
mean or have bad intentions.
I think we're busy.
And I think a lot of times injust the interest of like
keeping up and trying to keepthings moving, we prioritize uh,
(07:14):
you know, maybe certain thingsabout operating the business
over connecting with people.
And the, you know, and I thinkthe other thing is that we just
kind of make some assumptionsabout what people need without
really taking the time to slowdown and just ask them and
really understand like what theyneed from us.
Um, and so I think when we makeassumptions and we we kind of
fail to slow down and payattention, that that's when we
(07:37):
can fall into that trap.
SPEAKER_02 (07:39):
Oh, yes, yes.
Um, this is spot on uh unpackit.
So so you you fast forward, yourealize that you you gotta kind
of do things different and youget the help, and you you walk
in and make the apology.
How important was it?
And that's for everybodylistening.
For you as the leader, theowner, the person that
everybody, you know, the personthat says, Hey, I'm a boss, I
like to put things together.
How important and whatdifference did it make when you
(08:01):
came in and apologized?
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
Well, um, for me, I think it made all the difference
because everyone knew there wasno hiding it.
You know, I think sometimes wemake mistakes and we try to
cover them up.
Um, but in this pay, in thiscase, there was no covering it
up.
I mean, it was clearly outthere.
Um, and then so for me, I thinkjust kind of being showing some
acknowledgement that I had madea mistake, that I realized how
(08:27):
um impactful that had been in anegative way for so many people.
And and just sharing that, youknow, I'm human, I really want
to make this work.
And I need the the people whoare remaining on the team, like
I needed them.
I needed their feedback, Ineeded them to take a leap of
faith that I was going to beable to follow through and do it
and to kind of go with me onthis journey.
(08:48):
And uh so that that I think thatapology, and it was the it was
the first of many, and I thinkthis is one thing that um, you
know, it's a simple thing that Ithink many leaders can do to
build some of that connection isjust call it, like call it like
you see it on yourself withlike, hey, you know, that just
really didn't go as well as Ihad hoped, or what my intention
was, and here's what I'm tryingto do to fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Yes, I love it, I love it.
So let's lead into, I mean,phenomenal.
I mean, I'm glad that you unpackit in real time.
Let you spend a you spend a bulkof the time and you look at
your, you know, you go to ourwebsite, you look at what she's
doing in her organization, youspend a lot of time helping
people that are really good,very talented, but getting
stuck.
Can you unpack a little bitabout the work that you do and
(09:31):
people that are listening?
Because right now, people arestuck, things are chaotic for
people across the board.
Like, what what does it looklike to help people get unstuck?
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
Yeah, yeah.
I do I do see this a lot.
And and it's like now lookingback, um, I can see different
points in my own career or otherpeople I was working with, that
they were in fact stuck.
And and it can feel like justbeing frustrated and like there
can be like confusion.
And the biggest thing I think isthat this worry that we're gonna
(10:04):
make the wrong decision.
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:06):
And so we get in this cycle of analyzing and
looking for more data andrunning scenarios and trying to
imagine what it's gonna be like,and we get in this there, this
cycle of kind of worry andspeculation.
And what I found is that like toa certain extent, we have to
collect some data.
I mean, like, so I'm not takinganything away from that, but at
(10:26):
a certain point, we have to say,you know what, I'm never gonna
have perfect information.
There are no real right or wrongdecisions because we're bringing
ourselves with us.
And I just, if we can have thetrust in ourselves that look,
I'm gonna do the best I possiblycan with this, and at the next
logical point, I'll be able tomake another decision.
And so taking the pressure offof any one decision, I think
(10:49):
helps us just be able to getinto action and move forward.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Yes, yeah.
It's I love it.
It's leadership has changed inyour time frame and mine as
well, and and the workforce haschanged and access to
information is all that'schanged.
How do you help leaders thatstill are in that space getting
stuck while they feel likethey're supposed to have all the
right answers all the time?
Because you know, there can besome unwritten rules or
(11:13):
expectations that that you mayput on your or your organization
may put on you that you musthave the answer, or you get
minimized, marginalized, or youdon't look as competent as you
you need to look.
How do you always get unstuckout of feel like I gotta always
have the answers?
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
And this is so incrediblyrelevant right now.
I do quite a bit of work withum, I'm fortunate to be able to
do work uh with the federalgovernment and with some federal
government contractors.
And some of my clients now havebeen in this place where um
decision authority has shiftedpretty dramatically in the last
couple of months.
And with, you know, um deferredresignation and riffs and all of
(11:49):
this stuff going on,traditionally leaders would have
very much been a part of all ofthat process, all that analysis
and that decision-makingprocess.
But the reality is that inrecent months they haven't been.
And it's been very difficult forsome people to go to their teens
and say, look, we just don'tknow.
And I, you know, and be astransparent as they possibly
(12:11):
can.
And those leaders that I workwith that were able to say,
look, I wish I knew more, but Idon't, and I'm sharing
everything I possibly can.
And we're here, we're in ittogether.
We're gonna figure this outtogether.
Those are the ones that I thinkum had better connection and
success with those, their teams,versus those that felt like,
(12:32):
well, I don't have any answers,so I'm not gonna say anything.
And they pulled back.
And they are really struggling,and I know their teams are
struggling too.
So um, it does feel like a casestudy right now that we're in
the middle of that they're uhkind of an extreme that many
leaders, at least in federalright now, have been kind of
taken out of that traditional umjust awareness in that
(12:54):
decision-making process.
But when they owned it and justwere transparent about that,
that they actually got moreconnection with their people.
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Yes, yes.
Love it that you're sharing it.
What do you tell the leader thatthat's in that situation where
they have been removed from thedecision-making process, you
know, two or three levels, andthey don't have answers, but and
and they go and they'retransparent, but they're
personally struggling.
What do you think you to help?
Because they will be struggling,you know, there's the people
that's left behind, the peoplethat are going to be out of out
of out of a job for for avariety of reasons, but also the
(13:26):
people that are in in theleadership roles but can't
protect their workforce anymore.
How do you go?
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Yeah, I think it's a great question.
I think what you know, so Idon't have all the answers, but
a couple of things that I liketo talk about with people is
focusing on what's within yourcontrol.
Yes, because there's so muchright now.
And I love that cobby model, youknow, where it's a circle of um
influence or circle of concern,excuse me, circle of influence
and circle of concern.
And when we can look at thattogether and say, look, there is
(13:54):
so much going on out there rightnow that that is we're certainly
concerned about it, but we don'treally have any control and very
even limited influence.
And and and so essentially we'rekind of wasting our energy and
wasting our um, you know, ourour like our spirit, you know,
on trying to worry about thatstuff.
(14:15):
So to the extent that we cansay, okay, let's refocus on
what's within our control, bothfor leaders and to share that as
an advice with their teams,like, hey, let's kind of like
let's just reconnect because wecan always control how we're
showing up, we can alwayscontrol how we're treating each
other, and we can always controlthe quality of work that we're
doing.
There's so much that's stillwithin our power, and kind of
(14:37):
like taking that power backinstead of feeling um kind of
you know, almost as a victim toeverything else that's kind of
going on.
SPEAKER_02 (14:45):
Yes, yes.
I and I think that's importantfor everyone that's listening is
really you know sitting down andseeing what you do have control
of.
And there's a ton that you wishyou did, but that's changed.
But what you do have control ofis making sure that you, as a
leader, respect your team,you're transparent with your
team, you're open and honestwith your team, and you let them
and be vulnerable with yourteam.
They want to know that you'rehuman too, and you're going
(15:06):
through some of the same things.
And sometimes that puts peopleat ease that that they're on the
journey with you versus theyjust happen to be on the same
road with you.
Um, and I think that makes ahuge force.
Let me shift a little bit foryou, Robin.
In leadership, you know, one ofthe things you know, we both run
businesses, we have families,and life is busy for everybody.
What would you say to theaudience that's listening how to
(15:26):
do the mental health andwell-being as a leader?
Because often leaders are thelast to do it.
What advice do you give to thoseto leaders like you and I to
slow down and take care ofthemselves with mental health
and well-being?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, this is such a greatquestion.
And I'll I'll just be honestthat there's some days or weeks
I'm better at it than others.
And when I would say when I'mfollowing my practice, when I'm
in my routine, that that's whenkind of things are working.
And so for me, what that is ismy my most favorite part of the
day is first thing in themorning.
(16:00):
I like to get up early.
I love a cup of black coffee,you know, get my get my dogs
situated, and then I sit downand I do some journaling.
I do a very short, um, justquiet kind of like reflection,
just a few minutes of juststillness, and then I do my
journaling.
Um, and for me, there are threequestions that I ask myself
every day, and it helps kind ofset up the intention.
(16:21):
So the first question is, am Iworking today or am I resting?
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
And so, okay, I get clear on that because and it
can't, and you know, there's noright answer here, of course.
And in in the so anyway, so Iget my head around, am I working
today or am I resting?
The second question is, am Icreating or am I consuming?
So I I love to write, I likedoing some speaking, but I also
like learning, a kind of a moreconsumption process or just kind
(16:48):
of observing what other peopleare doing.
So there has to be a balancethere.
And the third question is, am Iopen or am I closed?
Now, I will say most days, Ifeel pretty open.
I love talking to people and Ilike being out there and all
that, but there are some dayswhen it can feel like it's too
much.
And so then I just kind of needto shut down just a little bit,
kind of retreat, take a littlebreak, and then you know, and
(17:11):
then the next day reconsider it.
But those three questions forme, it's almost like setting a
little intention for the day sothat then what as the day goes
on and we know things alwayshappen.
I'm like, bring myself back tolike, wait a second, I'm working
today and I'm open, so I need tokind of think about this a
little differently because Ialready made that commitment to
myself.
SPEAKER_02 (17:29):
Yes, I I love it.
So, you know, you've given themseveral questions now that you
start your day off with.
So you're hearing reality,you're unpacking.
Here's how she functions, youknow, so she can stay, and the
day is going to happen, but atleast you start off with
intentionality.
What do you tell the leader thatfeels guilty about taking time
for themselves?
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Oh my gosh.
I love this analogy of put youroxygen manager first.
You know, I know you know it.
I know you probably have tocoach yourself at times to do
it, especially yeah, being uh,you know, having a family,
because we do this as parents,we do this as people in our
communities, we do this um a lotis to kind of put others uh
first.
I do um I think that's real.
(18:06):
I mean, I really do um try toremind myself, try to remind
others gently that when we putour oxygen mask on first, we're
just that much more able to umto help other people.
And we know, you know, whenyou're kind of like getting
towards maybe not full burnout,but you know when you're kind of
wearing yourself out and and tobe proactive and just take that
(18:27):
time time away.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Yes, yes.
But I'm so Ron, you you thinkabout you're an entrepreneur,
um, you know, you're you'redoing the thing that that keeps
everybody busy.
What do you do to make sure thatyou stay ahead of your game?
You know, if you go back andlook at like where you are in
business now, you gotta, Ibelieve that you always gotta
get better.
How do you speak to people toeveryone about you must, if
you're gonna be in whether it'sin corporate America or you've
(18:51):
been an entrepreneur, whateverthat solopreneur, whatever
you're doing, what advice do yougive people that get complacent
and comfortable that like wherethey are is good enough?
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Yeah, I think this is a real risk.
I I really do.
Well, I think a good place tostart is listening to Unpacked
Podcasts.
So you're getting you know, putyourself in a position to be
exposed to all different kindsof ideas, even some that you
might not, you know, notnecessarily agree with or that
you wouldn't already, you know,even normally be attracted to.
So I think we have to kind ofput ourselves in a place to um,
(19:23):
you know, to be a learner.
And that can look like you know,all different kinds of things.
But I do think there is,especially when we get busy, um,
and we've all worked with peoplelike this who like really you
can tell just by talking tothem, to work with leaders like
this, that they were they'recarrying ideas forward that now
are almost a decade old.
(19:43):
You can tell they haven't kindof refreshed it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
And so I I do think it doesn't have to be
overwhelming and it doesn't haveto look like any anybody else's,
you know, process, but reallyhaving some some way to expose
yourself to new ideas where andif that's reading, I personally
love podcasts because I can dotwo things at once.
Um just getting in conversationor doing copies with people that
(20:08):
you wouldn't normally talk to,just so you can hear what else
is going on.
And then that always sparks acuriosity.
They're like, huh, I want to go,I want to follow that a little
bit more and find out more.
SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Yes, yes.
Because unfortunately, if youdon't, you you'll become
unconsciously incompetentbecause you're just not keeping
up.
Um it will fade away.
How do you help people ask forand embrace feedback?
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Oh, this is tough.
It's tough.
I I'll I'll say that um thisthis is something that I'm
still, you know, that I I workon myself.
Um you know, I I I think there'sum well one thing I I guess I
try to remind myself is that youknow, feedback is a data point.
SPEAKER_02 (20:53):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
And it's a data point often when we get feedback
at work, it's a data point aboutwhat somebody else needs from
you in that moment.
Like it doesn't really, it's notreally about you, it's not about
Ron, it's not about Robin.
It's like it's just a datapoint.
And with that data point, youhave a choice.
Does this kind of click withyou?
Does it align with kind of whereyou want to go?
(21:15):
Is it useful to you?
Great.
Then it's a gift and that'swonderful.
Sometimes you get feedback,you're like, okay, like that's
their opinion, and I'm justgonna leave it there and I'm
gonna move on.
Um, but I think, you know,similar to your question about
how you continue to, you know,um build your skills to the
extent that we can put ourselvesinto the position of getting
(21:38):
feedback, it's you know, it'skind of the other side of that
coin, you know, because we dothen get some additional
information on just how we canshow up and be more effective.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Yes, yes.
What do you tell, you know, aswe we look at time for for our
audience, what do you tell thatthe feedback, the person that's
given it doesn't do it well, butbut it's still accurate.
How do you get out of yourfeelings because the person
didn't do a good delivery?
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
Yeah, yeah.
And and I don't know about you,but sometimes I feel like this
issue that you just pinpointedis at the heart of so many
challenges that we have inbusiness.
Yes, you know, like if we wereall better at these crucial
conversations and able to kindof separate ourselves
emotionally from them and justkind of take it, you know, for
(22:22):
what it was, like how much likeit's so much friction is created
in our organizations because ofthis particular issue.
So um I do think it requires acertain amount of just kind of
emotional maturity to say, look,like I don't like the way he
said it.
And and honestly, like ifanyone, you know, deals with
young people, I get a lot offeedback from my kids.
(22:43):
I would I would argue that weare the lily green is not good,
it's not good.
Um, but I can but like so you Ican kind of laugh sometimes
about that.
Sometimes I'm like, I just needto take a break.
But um so if we can hear reallyhear the message and not it and
(23:03):
really try not to kind of makeit about us, like us being you
know, bad or a bad person oranything like that, then there
can be some mute usefulness inthere.
But I do think it requires justa certain amount of kind of
emotional management and bigpicture too.
Like it's just yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
I'll tell you on our team for people that listen,
they probably heard it, youknow, if they follow the
podcast.
Um, on our team, we we got a uhacronym with uh q-tip, you know.
Uh I tell people I say q tip it.
You know, when somebody's takingit, we say q-tip it, and it
means quit taking it personal.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
And and we literally in our company, you when you
hear say hey q-tip it, Ron,like, yeah, you're right.
I'm trying to get in myfeelings.
I'm supposed to do it.
It's like a reality check in anice way, like, hey, it wasn't
meant to be personal.
Now it requires you topersonally do something to get
better, but it wasn't a dig atyou, it was a opportunity to
help you get better.
So, hey, q-tip it for us.
(23:56):
Um, here's here's what we needyou to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
Yeah, oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Yeah, it is people like man.
I say, Yeah, we we say it in thecompany, we've kind of you know,
we put it out there, like, hey,get out of it, get the feelings
out of the way.
We we we have the things we needto get done.
So, Robin, you're in businessand you've done a phenomenal
job.
I want to make sure that we welet people know how to reach
you.
Um, and but I want to leave withone question first.
What are some things that may begoing on in people in an
(24:21):
organizational with the peoplethat you care to work with, your
potential clients?
What are some things they may beexperiencing that says they
should pick up the phone andcall you and then tell us how to
reach you?
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah, well, I so appreciate I appreciate that.
Um, so I kind of do twodifferent things, they're
related.
I work with both individuals,kind of in a career coaching
capacity, but I also work withleadership teams, um, you know,
in kind of a in a similarspirit, like how teams can work
better together to achieve theirobjectives.
So if you are an individual andyou're mid-career and you're
(24:52):
asking yourself this question,like, is this it?
Like, is this it?
Or like, is this it?
Then I can help.
I have been there myself.
And that is a just an it's anindication that not necessarily
something has gone wrong, butthere is a calling, there's an
opportunity to kind of take astep back where you are in your
career.
(25:12):
Because many of us are kind oflooking, I'm, you know, maybe
some, maybe two-thirds of theway through at this point, and I
want, you know, and I think alot of us want impact.
And if you're not quite sureyou're having the impact that
you want, then now's a greattime to kind of determine what
that is and get on track.
So that, so mid-career people, Iwould love to talk to you.
(25:33):
Um, on the leadership team side,I work with mostly um highly
technical teams, the engineersand uh, you know, construction
folks and people who are highlytechnical that are struggling
to, the team is struggling tokind of take the step out of
that awesome individualcontributor to really
functioning as a businessleader.
So if you're uh leading one ofthose technical teams and you
(25:55):
really just need them to step upand kind of take some more
business ownership, I can helpwith that too.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Wow, phenomenal.
And that's and both of those areneeded, you know.
So when you think about your ownprofessional development or from
technical to becoming a leader,which is so different because
it's hard to get out of thathands-on approach.
What's the most effective wayfor people to make contact with
you?
What can they find out moreabout you, you know, for
bringing in your services?
And I say this for everyonethat's listening.
Robin and I are in the samespace.
(26:19):
And I tell people we collaborateversus compete.
You know, you want to make sureyou have healthy relationships
with people that do what you do,they'll actually make you
better.
You know, so there's anexpectation that if Robin and I
are working with each other, weshould make each other better.
Otherwise, why are we reallydoing it?
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
I I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
That's the reality.
That's why you know the show.
I say, come on, let's have fun,let's talk.
You know, so please, what's thebest way for people to reach
you?
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Well, my absolute favorite is I I love LinkedIn.
I love when people reach out onLinkedIn.
So yeah, you can find me atRobin Camero and just either
send me a direct message or aconnection request.
I would just love to meet there.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Awesome, awesome.
Are you also interested in doingmore podcasts?
Because we have people that alsohost their podcast that listen
to our show that are looking forguests.
Um, so I would love to make surethat they know hey, if you're
interested, you know, you candrop information.
How do they reach you?
And if you're interested.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:08):
Yes, awesome, awesome.
So I'm gonna do a couple ofthings, Rob.
I'm gonna go through a summaryreal quick and then I'm gonna
hand you the microphone thatcloses out.
So, whatever you want to leavethem with for food for thought
at the end, I always leave it upto our guests to close us out.
So, for everyone that'slistening, again, Ron Harvey,
unpacked, you know, leadershipdevelopment consultant, love
doing what we do, but moreimportantly, love adding value
to make a difference to whatyou're trying to achieve.
(27:30):
Are you the best leader that youcan be?
And if you're if the people thatare watching you that you're
leading could pick one leader inthe room out of a hundred, would
they pick you?
If they would, let's define why.
If they won't, let's understandso we can get to the place where
they will select you.
Our job is to make you effectiveat taking care of your team at
the end of the day.
That's what leaders do.
We serve to make sure thatthings get done.
(27:51):
Very rarely are we the onesdoing the work anymore if you
get to the leisure role, ifyou're doing it correctly.
How do you make sure you'redoing it right so they can be
the best that they can be?
And that's what leaders do.
They let they literally helppeople bring the best version of
themselves to get stuff done.
So I'm gonna pause here and tellyou thank you for joining us.
Thank you for watching andalways tell people about the
Unpacked Leadership Podcast.
Um love to have you as a guestif you're if you have something
(28:14):
that you want to offer to ouraudience, but love for you to
share the link for people thatcan listen for the 20 to 25
minutes that we share.
At this time, I'm gonna hand itback to Robin and she's gonna
drop some nuggets on you.
So hopefully you'll take notesand writing it down, but she's
gonna leave you with some somewisdom as we close out.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
Well, Merlin, thank you so much.
This is just so much fun.
And I think we are just kindredspirits in in uh I I love the
work that you're doing and withthe spirit of generosity that
you bring to it.
So, what I would leave you withis my firm belief that action
unlocks impact.
And when we are feeling stuck orjust not having the kind of uh
(28:50):
impact that we want in ourlives, on our teams, in our
communities, and so forth, thatthat first step is just getting
into motion.
So, identify one small step youcan take today that'll build on
the next, it'll build on thenext and get you into action to
have that kind of impact youdesire.
SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
Awesome.
Thank you.
Y'all have a wonderful one untilnext time.
We'll sign it off.
Y'all have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks Sound Advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are or the people youserve.
(29:35):
Because people always matter.
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