November 10, 2025 • 41 mins
We explore what separates real leadership from title-driven management, why connection is the engine of trust, and how fair recognition fuels performance. William Davis shares lessons from four decades in corporate roles, mentorship stories, and a candid blueprint for humane, high-performing teams.
• defining leader vs manager vs boss
• building trust through consistent connection
• rejecting forced rankings and unfair rewards
• advice for younger, ambitious leaders
• mentorship as an antidote to insecurity
• weekly feedback and zero-surprise reviews
• personalizing relationships to each teammate
• repairing trust by showing up in the work
• modeling vulnerability and safety
• shifting from expert to empowering leader
• boundaries, time off, and work-life balance
• three actionable practices leaders can start today
• William’s books and how to contact him
Feel free to share it. If you know someone that you think would be a great guest that's going to add value to our audience, that's what the show is really about. You can always find us on our company's webpage, Global Core Strategies and Consulting. You'll find everything about me on there. It'll send you to my LinkedIn, which are the two primary sources to reach us.
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Good afternoon, everyone.
This is Ron Harvey, VicePresident, Chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting.
We own a leadership firm, youknow, specializing in helping
leaders become better connectedto their workforce and the
people that they were reallyresponsible for at the end of
the day.
We love it.
We've been in business about 12years, based out of Columbia,
South Carolina.
But I always, as you know, ifyou're following me, we do a
(00:42):
podcast called Unpack with RonHarvey.
Guests from around the world,there are no questions that are
preset.
We're not sure what we're goingto talk about, with the
exception of leadership.
And I'm I'm happy that ourguests are brave enough.
Most people are like, wait, sendme the questions first.
But all of our guests come onand we want to share something
that's going to be of value.
We want to share something thatyou can use that'll be helpful.
(01:02):
And we'll talk that we do ownbusinesses.
We do like to do work withdifferent organizations and
companies.
So our guests are prettytransparent and open.
So without any further ado, Iwant to be able to invite
William to you know introducehimself, what he wants you to
know about him before we diveinto the question.
But I always give our guests achance to say what they want to
say about themselves, and Idon't mess it up.
So, William, let me hand it toyou.
Whatever you want to share, youknow, the mic is yours.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Thank you, Ron.
I really appreciate it.
I I've really looked forward tobeing on this uh podcast with
you for several weeks, and andit's been great uh had talking
with you before we startedtoday.
Uh my name's William Davis.
Uh I live just outside ofDallas, Texas, have been here
about oh 20 years, 20 so 25years, I guess.
Um, and uh married, two kids,both uh in their 30s.
(01:49):
So uh I tell them now all thetimes that they were telling me
I was old, they're gettingthere.
So uh yeah.
But uh I I just retired um fromcorporate America after almost
40 years uh and started aconsulting firm of my own uh
last month that uh I focus ondoing keynotes.
(02:11):
And I actually just wrote a bookand finishing my second one that
maybe we'll get to talk about alittle bit later.
Um, but again, speakingspecifically on leadership and
and some of the things that overmy 38-year career uh I felt like
uh are missing in regards totraining our new generation of
folks that are coming up.
(02:33):
So that's what I'm I'm hoping todo.
Uh I I keep telling everybodyit's it's this is my opportunity
to give back.
Uh, I I've gotten so much frommy career and the people
associated with it, and and Ifeel like that I want to do
something to help prepare thenext group.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Yes, yes.
Thanks, William.
I mean, and you're right inalignment.
I mean, I'm glad andcongratulations on retirement
and and and doing somethingdifferent and giving back in in
the books.
So before we dive into any ofthe questions, I know you
already have a book out and Ialways want to share, you know,
with people, you know.
So what's the name of the book?
And if you have it anywherefloating next to you or near
you, love to promote that.
And then if you're allowed toshare what the new title may be
(03:11):
for something else you'rewriting, you can share that as
well.
So here's the opportunity topromote what you have already
and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
I appreciate that, Ron.
This is it.
It's called uh How to Lead.
Well, my my background is kindof messing up.
It's called How to Lead WithoutJust Managing.
It's available on Amazon, andthis particular book deals
specifically with the differencebetween leadership, yes, being a
manager, and being a boss,because those three terms are
used interchangeably all thetime, and they couldn't be a
(03:41):
more dramatic difference betweenthe three.
And I and I think you know, oneof the frustrations I always had
uh latter part of my career isyou would look at leadership
training corporations wouldhave.
Well, it's not any more thanjust managerical training.
How do I do hang on?
How do I check off the marks?
You know, how do I do this, howdo I do that?
And it's not ever dealing withthe true nature of leadership.
(04:06):
Leadership is about your people.
Leadership is not about thecheck marks on the list that the
managers have to do, it's allabout bringing my people to a
level of success where they cancontinue to feel good about what
they're doing, how they'redoing, and and you know, move on
(04:27):
with their career and and dowhat you've done.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Yeah, I'm glad you're sharing that, William.
So you think about the book, youknow, um, from the different
levels, you're right.
The the language can becomeinterchangeable and it's not the
same.
Yeah.
What have been some of thewhat's the one lesson that
you've learned throughout yourcareer, and I'm sure you've
learned a lot of them?
What stands out the most to you,something that you learned that
you still use today inleadership?
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
It's the building the connection with my people,
right?
And and and it they don't evenhave to be reporting to me,
right?
It's I just build the connectionbecause if you are going to have
a successful relationship withanybody, you've got to build a
connection that means somethingto them as much as it means to
(05:12):
you.
And in doing so, you you'rehelping build trust, uh loyalty,
a genuineness that they alwaysfeel like that you're looking
out for them and trying to dofor them what's in their best
interest, right?
And and what I've always foundis even when you build that kind
(05:35):
of relationship and and you haveto have the tough conversations,
the tough conversations areeasier because they feel like
that you are genuinely lookingout for them and not trying to
sabotage them.
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Yes, yes.
I I love it.
You know, I I I like to onthere, William, tell people it's
like you can have the greatestcell phone possible, whether
it's iPhone or Android.
If you don't have a connection,a Wi-Fi, that phone is pretty
useless.
Right.
It becomes a ticket really,really quick.
And I think that for people thatare listening, sometimes we have
you noticed that sometimesleaders let their titles get in
the way um because they rose tothe ranks, got this phenomenal
(06:11):
title, got this office, and allof a sudden they don't have a
connection.
How do leaders avoid lettingtheir titles get in the way?
SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
Well, I think it's it's got to start from the very
beginning of their career.
I I don't know that somebody canuh uh all of a sudden, you know,
I get the corner office, I getthe senior vice president title,
director, whatever.
I I don't know that they canchange spots, right?
Uh and and and suddenly becomesomething in regards to
(06:38):
connecting with people thatthey've not done genuinely
throughout their career.
I I always find it funny, Ron,that that um people who get in
those positions fail tounderstand it's the people under
them that allow them to succeed,right?
If if if I'm gonna get a, youknow, I work for a large company
(07:00):
and I'm gonna get a you know Xnumber of millions of dollars in
bonuses, uh, did I do that on myown, or is it because of the
people underneath me, right?
It's because of the peopleunderneath me.
And I need to make sure thatthat they're taken care of.
And I and I think, you know, asI have transitioned out and and
I have been able to speak out alittle bit more freely than what
(07:23):
I was, you know, prior.
Um the the thing that has alwaysannoyed me so much is you know,
we have brought into existencethis bell curve ranking or
forced ranking or stack stackedranking.
And all to me it is is an excuseof how do I penalize people of a
(07:46):
certain amount of money so I canpay the bigwigs more.
Yeah, wow.
Uh, and and I would encourageeverybody to go back and look at
annual reports of companies thatthey've worked for where they've
gotten ripped off of the oftheir uh bonuses, or you know,
let's let's even talk about uhraises, you know, you know,
(08:10):
corporate leaders get raises offive, ten, fifteen percent while
the the rank and file folks getone, two, three percent.
Well, how are they supposed tosurvive on that when inflation's
six percent, seven percent,eight percent, right?
And and you, you know, to yourquestion, and I know I'm going a
(08:30):
long way around this, to yourquestion is they have to
understand that the people thatwork for them are human beings
that have issues they have todeal with on a daily basis.
They have bills, they have kids,they have families, they have
homes, all these challenges thatthey have to deal with, and they
are counting you on you as aleader to do your part to make
(08:54):
sure that they're taken care of.
And when you fail in thatregard, you don't need to be in
the position you're in becauseyou you're too selfish, is my
personal opinion.
You're too selfish to be in thatrole.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah, which is an interesting point, though, when
you when you think about it, itis our society flawed in that
way, then, because mostorganizations, the higher you
go, the more the bonuses, themore the pay is, the more the
perks are, the more the bigoffers is.
Um, and and and we almost havethis entitlement mentality when
we're the CEO, there's a certainlevel of revenue that comes with
(09:27):
that.
How do you begin to balance thisout where it's not where
corporate America or the bigwigs are getting the bulk of the
revenue that is flowing throughthe entire organization?
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
That's a great question, Ron.
I I think you know one of thethings that uh you have to start
with is helping them understandthat uh the the people that work
for them, the people they haverelationships with are human
beings, right?
And the the golden rule is isalways the best, in my opinion,
to follow.
(09:59):
Do unto others as you'd havethem do under you.
And and and if you would reversethe the positions between you
and the people that work foryou, you wouldn't accept or you
wouldn't be happy, or youwouldn't, you know, feel right
about getting a one and twopercent raise or only getting
75% of your bonus when you know.
(10:20):
So to me, it's it's a a uh youhave to look inwardly at
yourself and and really analyzewho am I?
Am I really this selfish?
Am I really this self-centered?
Or am I truly a leader who isgoing to do everything possible,
(10:42):
even to the point of uhsacrificing some things for the
people who are loyal and andallow me to be in the position
I'm in?
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Wow.
I mean, you give it a lot tounpack.
So so, William, as you look at,I mean, I love that you're in
the leadership background andyou've been in corporate
America, uh, and you'vetransitioned, you know, you're
doing a company now, which meansyou want to give back, as we
were talking in the green room,you want to give back.
How important it was for you asyou were starting the young
version of you, and you look atwhere you are now, what piece of
(11:14):
advice would you give youryounger version?
SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
Well, uh that's great.
That's a great question becauseI was thinking about that the
other day.
My younger version was the veryarrogant, self-centered, it's
all about me, right?
Yeah, and and I I wanted to besuccessful, and oftentimes my
success uh came at the expenseof someone else, right?
(11:37):
Or at least in my mindset, I waswilling to go that far, right?
And so the the thing that I havetried to help young leaders
understand now is the reputationthat you make now and the the
pattern that you follow inleadership now is what's gonna
follow you through the remainderof your career.
(11:59):
Because short of somecatastrophic situation occurring
in your life, who you are as ayoung leader is gonna be who you
are later on, because generallyyou're getting you're becoming
more and more successful as yourcareer goes on.
And so if I don't need to changewhat's gotten me to the point
(12:21):
where I'm at, why would I?
Right?
And so if I'm not treatingpeople with respect, if if I'm
not building trust, I'm notbuilding loyalty, and uh again,
not treating them as a humanbeing, then there's not going to
be, as I get more successful,not gonna be any more reason,
any reason for me to changethat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Yeah, I mean that yeah, because you you've been
rewarded, and so people willwill repeat what they're
rewarded for.
So I totally I've always told ifyou want it to get repeated,
rewarded, and you'll see itagain.
How how important was it foryou, you know, throughout your
journey or your career?
You know, first did you havementors in place and and why if
you had them?
SPEAKER_02 (13:03):
I I did have a mentor uh very early on in my
career, right after I got out ofcollege when I went to work for
the bank.
Uh, I went to work for the homecompany uh out of St.
Louis.
I was living in Oklahoma City atthe time.
And he uh great guy.
I mean, he and I are stillfriends 30 35 years later, uh,
and and talk a couple of times aweek.
(13:26):
Um he very you know early onshowed me that don't take
yourself too seriously, youknow, don't don't take yourself
too seriously.
And and again, it was all thatwe're we win together, we lose
together.
Right?
I I'm only as successful as asthe weakest link, if you will,
(13:48):
or the least successful of mypeople.
And to me, um one of the thingsthat he taught me early on was I
am not competing with my folks,right?
I am I am complimenting my folksuh from the perspective of
everything I can do to help makethem successful.
(14:10):
And if they're successful, hey,that's exactly what I'm looking
for.
And I think part of thechallenge that I've seen uh
through the years, and this goesback to what you and I were
talking a little bit aboutearlier, is too many quote
unquote leaders look at theirpeople as competition, and
they're not competition.
(14:30):
You know, if I have somebody andthey bypass me in their career,
great, man, that's awesome.
That's what I want for them,right?
Because at the end of the day, Ihave other things in my life.
I have my wife, I have my kids,you know, retirement opens up a
whole new uh opportunity uh atlife.
(14:53):
But if I am constantly lookingat my people as competition, I'm
always going to do something,you know, whether it's uh
consciously or unconsciously, tosabotage not only them, but you
know, the team and the companyas a whole.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Wow, wow.
Phenomenal.
I love I love the story thatyou're sharing.
In your time of leadership, youknow, corporate America, and
you're raising a family, you gothow do you help people that are
that are insecure in their role?
You know, you hire someone andwe look at resumes and what is
really phenomenal, outstanding,young, up-and-coming person.
But then when they come, we puta lid on them because we're
(15:32):
insecure.
How do you help leaders thatthat get past this insecurity of
having someone on your teamthat's younger, better, faster,
smarter to take the organizationto another level, but don't get
in the way of that?
How do you help me if I'minsecure in my role because I
have someone behind me that'sbetter than me?
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
I I I always encourage them to look at, hey,
what can you learn from them?
Right?
What can you learn from them andwhat can you implement, right?
And if they're that great, hey,think about the fantastic team
you two can make together,right?
Think of all the things that youcan do together.
Uh and again, it goes back tothis, it's not me versus them,
(16:10):
it's us, right?
It's we, we are accomplishingthis.
And and so that to me is hasalways been where I've started
out is you gotta look behalf,you gotta look past yourself.
You've got to look at the biggerpicture of we are a team, we are
accomplishing together, and Iwant them to succeed.
(16:32):
When they succeed, I succeed.
And and if you can't have thatkind of mentality, I question
whether you really need to be aleader or not.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Yes, yes, 11.
How do you help us on when youlook at it, William, and you
think about the value of makingsure that you do performance
appraisals and feedback?
You know, some leaders don't doperformance appraisals in a
timely, accurate manner, or ifthey do them at all, or they
hand it to their staff and tellthem to do their own.
How valuable is it for us asleaders to ensure we're doing
(17:01):
performance appraisals with ourwith our team on a on a
consistent basis and not just atthe end of the year, but
quarterly check-ins to getpeople to the end of the year,
there's no surprise.
SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
You know, yeah, how important is that?
I it's incredibly important.
And and again, I I would saythat that is one of the one of
the things that led me todeciding to retire because that
whole process is just ridiculousat this point.
Um, you know, if I am if I'mtruly leading my folks and and
trying to do the best I can forthem, I need to be talking to
(17:33):
them at least once or twice aweek, if not, you know, more,
right?
And and it's and it's not alwaysa um a negative conversation or
a hey, it's uh you know, youneed to do better here.
It's a hey man, that was great.
I I love the way you did that.
I love the way you broughteverybody together, you know,
keep doing that, right?
(17:54):
My job as a leader is to be aleader, right?
It's to take my people to thenext level, and that's my job.
And and if I'm not communicatingwith them on a regular basis,
then I'm not doing what I shouldbe doing.
Now, conversely, I need to beable to take the feedback also,
(18:16):
right?
If if I do something that, hey,somebody from my team comes to
me and says, you know what, thatreally didn't go over well, or
that didn't really work well, Ineed to be willing to listen to
it and I need to be willing toadjust to it.
Uh, because just becausesomething I've done has worked
in the past doesn't mean it'sgoing to work with a group of
people that I've got now.
(18:38):
Because everybody's different.
And that's one of the things Iwrite about in my new book uh
about building genuinerelationships, is the building
of a relationship with your teamhas to be on an individual
basis.
I have to find what is uh theright approach to building a
(19:00):
relationship with person A,person B, person C, it's not
gonna be a one size fits all.
And in doing that, uh then, youknow, these conversations that I
have with them on a weekly basisor or whatever, um, it is gonna
be able to go back and forthbecause we've got a comfort
level with each other that wecan be honest.
(19:21):
And we can, if I tell you, Ron,hey, you know what, you and I
have a great relationship.
I want you to be totally honestwith me.
And the first time you saysomething negative toward me, I
I go off in a huff or or I starttreating you differently.
I've I have totally damaged thatrelationship because that level
of trust is no longer there thatthey thought that we had
(19:43):
together.
And so I've got to be able tolisten and I've got to be able
to change if needed.
But then I've also, if I feelit's still the best approach, I
still got to be able to expandon or expound on why I think
it's the right approach.
And hey, let's work together andsee if we can refine it and make
it best.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Yes.
I mean, phenomenal informationwhere you so as you look at the
opportunity, you mentionedtrust.
How do you help leaders rebuildtrust after they've done
something to erode it?
You know, they've made a mistakeor they said a wrong comment, or
or they got or they huff andpuff and they got feedback and
they didn't respond to it well,which which really begins to
erode trust.
How do you help a leader recoverfrom it when they've made a
(20:26):
mistake?
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
The first thing I tell them is you've got to get
back in there with your team andyou've got to work with them.
They've got to see you doing thework with them that they have
been doing.
And the reason, excuse me, thereason that I say that is when
you're in there working withthem, you're hearing them,
(20:48):
right?
You're hearing what they'resaying, you're hearing how
they're reasoning, then you canprovide input.
Sorry, Ron.
You can provide input and theystart they start getting to
interacting with you in such away where you guys are now
moving toward a common goal, acommon purpose.
(21:10):
Um, I've seen a lot of guys whowho run the trust with their
team and they try to rebuild itfrom afar, and and that's not
gonna happen.
If you're not there with yourteam where you're able to
interact, should interact withthem, they're able to see your
genuineness and you're able tosee their genuineness, you're
not gonna be able to rebuildthat trust.
(21:31):
So you got to jump right back inwith the team.
It's gonna be uncomfortable atfirst, it's gonna be tense at
first, but you as leader have tobe able to set the tone for I
want to make amends, I want tomake this relationship right
again.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
Yeah, I hear in there, um, and you can correct
me on here, William.
There's a level of of beingwilling to be vulnerable in that
space.
Can you speak to about thevulnerability that leaders have
to show?
When I grew up, it was don't letthem see you sweat, don't let
them see your emotions, don'tlet them know your mistakes.
You know, you're always rightand you got all the answers.
That's that's not reality.
That command and control andalways having the answers is not
(22:08):
reality anymore.
Can you speak to vulnerabilityfor leaders that are listening?
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
Well, you have to be vulnerable, you have to show it
because if not, people are gonnaperceive you as fake because
they know, like you said, that'snot reality.
And uh, you know, my wifeconsistently tells me things
I've done wrong.
So I I'm not I'm not uh I'm notuh uh uh I'm always used to
hearing that, right?
(22:31):
So I I can share that withfolks.
You know, I if you can't makefun of yourself, if you can't
lay out your weaknesses or yourfailures or your frailties, then
I'm not sure you're ever able togrow past them, right?
When I, you know, uh one of theteams that that I had for about
(22:55):
10 years, we traveled about 75%of the time for about 10 years.
We were there Sunday nightthrough you know Friday.
And you know, we spent eight,twelve, fourteen hours a day
together.
And I had a rule that we gottogether at every night at
dinner together.
(23:16):
We ate dinner together, right?
But we didn't talk business.
We always talked everythingother than business, and it's
amazing what comes out of thoseconversations because you share
things, you know.
Man, I can't believe I racked Ibacked into a tree and you know,
pulling out of my driveway,right?
(23:36):
Well, you know, that may besilly and that may not be very
necessarily along with businessfailure, but they see that you
have had challenges, right?
Just like they did.
Oh gosh, I backed out andknocked over my neighbor's
mailbox, right?
You know, and and when you whenyou start showing the real side
(23:58):
to you or to yourself, toothers, then you're able to work
through challenges that youhave, right?
And I and I give you a perfectexample.
Um, you know, we were sitting atdinner one night and and I I was
talking about uh you knowsomething that I had done just
completely stupid, you know, andand I'm not gonna mention it
(24:20):
online, but uh I had just doneit completely stupid.
And somebody looked at me andsays, Oh, no, that's that's
nothing.
I did something and they namedoff something worse, right?
And then I had somebody elsesay, Oh, that's nothing.
I, you know, it's so we kind ofstarted making a game out of,
okay, what silly thing did youdo over the weekend, or what's
your worst, you know.
So it became a not acompetition, but it became a
(24:44):
safe space.
Yes, became a safe space that wewere able to just talk, have
fun, share, learn, right?
There were there were a numberof times when somebody would say
this happened, and it became aserious conversation between the
group, and and we helped peoplework out the challenges they
had.
So if you're not willing to showvulnerability and the fact that
(25:06):
you fail, just like everybodyelse, then you're never gonna
build any kind of uh validrelationship with your team.
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Yes, yes.
So when you think when you thinkof William, you know, from from
going from you know, youmentioned the different roles,
managers, leaders, you know.
How do you help like when you'rea technical expert and you're
the one that got all the answersand you're really, really good,
and then all of a sudden you'rein a leadership role?
How do you help people make thattransition?
Because it's very difficult.
(25:39):
I'm a veteran, that's one of thehardest things that we've always
said.
Like when you get promoted, howdo you get out of this this
do-it-yourself, you know, um, asversus delegating and trusting
and empowering people?
That's difficult.
It's easy to say, but difficultto do.
What are some strategies to helppeople get out of their own way
and step into their leadershiprole?
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Well, I think the first thing that you have to to
make clear to the the team isthat I am always here for help,
right?
Yeah I I'm not gonna sit hereand judge you.
You know, I I might I might doit X way, right?
But if you do it Y way, I'm notgonna sit there and say, oh,
that's wrong, right?
Uh so I you've got to make themcomfortable that as you step out
(26:23):
of that, you know, day-to-dayoperational type role, that they
have the um the freedom to cometo you to discuss what's going
on, and they're not gonna bejudged, you know, or or have
negative uh, you know, walk awayfrom the conversation negative
with a negative feeling, right?
(26:43):
I've also suggested to them toleaders that you know just
because you step away from theday-to-day doesn't necessarily
mean that you have to step awayfrom listening in to what
they're they're talking about,right?
And and still providingguidance, right?
I may not tell them A to B tosee how to do it, but I might
(27:05):
offer them guidance.
Hey, have you ever thought aboutthis?
Okay, and again, allowing themto understand that you are still
attached, you still have a uhyou know, a stake in what's
going on, and again, you youwant to help them succeed.
So it is a very delicatebalancing act, but I think you
(27:28):
know, if you go into it from aperspective of making sure my
team understands they've got thefreedom to come to me without
judgment, that you know, we'llyou know, we'll talk through
whatever, uh, and I'm not gonnahang you know hammer them on the
head because I disagree withmaybe the direction they're
going and and the fact that I'mgonna drop in every once in a
while and and just listen to theconversation and offer them
(27:49):
guidance.
I I think that goes a long wayto starting to make that
transition easier for bothsides.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Awesome.
Thank you.
How do you help?
I mean, what did you do?
I want to say how did you help?
How did you manage self-carewhen you were in a in an
executive role?
And and and and of course youcan burn the candles at both
ends, and it's not healthy.
How did you what did you do tomake sure you manage self-care?
SPEAKER_02 (28:12):
Well, early years I didn't.
I I did a very poor job of it,right?
I I, you know, in order to beseen, in order to be uh uh uh at
the front of things, I wouldtravel, you know, middle of the
afternoon on Sunday and not comehome till late Friday night,
sometimes you know, early intothe hours of Saturday morning.
(28:33):
And and I lost a lot of um greatparenting time and a lot of
great spousal time because ofit.
Um and you know, one of thethings that that uh woke me up
was in '98, the the bank I hadbeen working for, uh, you know,
(28:54):
and we had worked on mergers andacquisitions for a number of
years, and we were bought.
And all that work that we haddone over the previous five,
six, seven years was now all ofa sudden worthless.
Because who bought us was nowgoing to come in and do it
differently.
And I told myself at that timethat was the stupidest thing
(29:18):
you've ever done because youhave now lost something that
you'll never be able to get backfor something that was so easily
thrown away.
Wow.
And so from that point on, andthis was 98 when we moved down
here to the Dallas area.
Uh, from that point on, Irefused to do that.
(29:41):
I I caught, you know, I caughtthe flights everybody else did.
You know, if they flew outMonday morning, I flew out
Monday morning.
If I they flew back Fridaymorning, I flew back Friday
morning.
I was not going to shortchangethe organization, right?
I was gonna do what I was notwhat I needed to do, but I was.
No longer going to shortchangemy family, and I was no longer
(30:03):
going to shortchange myself.
And that is a conscious effort,uh, and a conscious decision
that you have to make that norole is worth your health.
And I'll give you a perfectexample.
Uh, the that transition, thatthat purchase that uh was made
(30:24):
of our organization, thegentleman who was going to be
our new boss, my group's newboss, came from this new
organization or the purchasingorganization, and he was flying
in and out of St.
Louis every week uh doingdifferent things.
And he was at the time, he wasprobably late 40s, maybe 50 at
(30:47):
the time, and he came in one oneFriday night late and uh told
his wife, you know, I don't feelvery well, and sat down in his
chair in the middle of hisliving room, and they found him
the next morning dead.
unknown (31:00):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (31:01):
And you think, oh well, it just had to be his
lifestyle.
No, the guy was a marathonrunner, the guy was as fit as
anybody I've ever seen in mylife, and that woke me up to the
fact of you know, gosh, there'sgot to be more to this than than
you know, just this traveling,and and so um you have you have
(31:26):
to make life more about than thejob and the career, because at
some point it goes away.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yes, yes.
I'll tell you when you you know,um, and I actually use that all
the time because you know wedidn't always get it right, um,
and we're trying to put youknow, plant seeds and help
understand the importance of it.
I think the statement that stuckwith me, you know, um that I use
when I travel and people ask methat same question.
I say, don't be a public successand a private failure.
SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
There you go.
That's great.
Yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Because publicly everybody loves you, but your
family, if you go ask them,they're like, Yeah, but you're
never home.
You're never you're missing alot of things that you don't
necessarily have to miss.
SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
Yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
There's always gonna be the next opportunity or the
next thing that you can make, orthe next you know, no big deal
you can make, you know.
But if your family is missingyou, you want to pay attention
to that.
And I tell leaders all the time,don't publicly be great, but
probably you'll fell inmiserably.
That's your health, that's yourfinances, that's your family,
that's your faith.
If you're a faith person, likeall those other things that make
up your entire life, payattention to them.
(32:25):
Um, because you can't get thosethings back.
You know, it it's it reallyhurts you long term.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
And and and again, that'spermanent, right?
I mean, that though that damageis permanent.
It's it's uh like you said, it'sit's just uh you can't get it
back.
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Are there any things as we look at time force here?
What would you leave theaudience with?
Are there three things you say,hey Ron, you know, in
leadership, you know, you run aconsulting firm, you're you've
had you had a lot of years ofexperience.
Are there three things you sayfrom your wisdom of all those
years and running a company now?
What what would you leave withleaders that are listening that
say, hey, give me something thatthat I can implement right now
today?
What would you tell them?
SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
Well, the first thing I would do is tell them to
change the way they look attheir people.
unknown (33:08):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (33:09):
If you don't see your people as human beings with
real issues, real challenges,real desires, real uh passions,
then you're not ever going to bethe type of leader that you
could be, right?
And so to me, that that's themost incredible thing uh that
that you do.
(33:29):
And that's to the the point ofmy second book is it's all about
building that relationships.
Uh and again, it has to be doneon an individual basis.
There's not going to be a rightway to do it with everybody, you
know.
Um, and I'll give you just ifyou don't mind, a couple of
quick examples.
(33:49):
Uh, you know, I had a a youngman that worked for me and he
loved golf.
And uh back in that back inthose days, I was still playing
golf.
And I I said, okay, well, let'sjust go play golf.
And he's like, Oh, okay.
So we went out on the golfcourse one afternoon, you know,
and you'd be amazed at thenumber of things that we talked
(34:12):
about, right?
Because if if I say I want toget to know you, Ron, and I
invite you into my office or Iinvite you into the boardroom,
uh, that's not gonna work.
That that's that's not I'm gonnaget I'm gonna get a little bit
of Ron, right?
Yeah, but it I met him on agrounds, on the grounds that he
was comfortable with, right?
(34:32):
And and we opened up and it wasa little tense at first, but you
know, by the time we were theback nine, man, everything was
fair game, you know.
Um, and I had a young lady uhthe same way, she um kind of
introverted, but she liked totake walks during the course of
her day every day.
And at the time the facility wewere working at had a big lake,
(34:53):
so we just walked around.
I asked her, Can I join you?
And you know, we walked aroundthat lake, you know, four or
five times, and by the time thehour was up, boy, I I knew a
bunch about her, right?
And and so I knew as as shedealt with things, I I knew how
to handle it, right?
I knew how to approach her, howto delegate for her, and and so
(35:18):
forth.
Um the the second thing I wouldsay to to leaders is do not be
afraid to allow your people timeoff when needed, right?
I I you know we we have gotten,and and I hate this, but we
(35:39):
we've gotten to this uh kind ofan open-ended time off in
corporate America, right?
Well, what it has done though isit's almost made people uh feel
guilty about taking time off.
Yes, right?
You know, I used to have threeweeks and then four weeks and
then five weeks based on thenumber of years of service I
(36:00):
had.
Well, now we have, you know,just you know, take time off as
you need it.
Well, uh I have seen a lot ofpeople who's like, God, I feel
guilty about doing that.
Well, why?
It's your time.
And if I have a truerelationship with my people, I
want them to be able to come tome and say, you know what, I got
(36:22):
this situation going on at home.
I don't need to know thedetails, but I know them well
enough to know that this isimportant to them, and they need
to be able to deal with it, andI need to support them in that
manner.
So, hey, work at home, right?
Hey, we we did this for fiveyears in corporate America, it
didn't go down the tubes, right?
(36:42):
But all of a sudden we feel likepeople don't come back to the
office, then then you knoweverything is gonna go to uh a
wasteland or something.
Um, you know, let them work athome.
Uh if they need the time off,say, you know what, take it.
Don't worry about it, we'llcover for you.
Right?
(37:02):
Don't make people feel guiltyfor needing time off.
Don't act like it's animposition on you.
They're owed that time, let themhave it.
And then the third thing is Iwould make sure that people
relay to their people, I expecta work-life balance.
I do not expect 50, 60, 70, 80hours consistently out of you.
(37:28):
I expect you to work yourschedule and I expect you to go
home.
And when you go home, I don'texpect you to sign on when you
get home.
What you have left will be heretomorrow, right?
And we're not gonna, you know,close up doors because you
didn't finish an email orbecause you didn't finish a
presentation, or make sure theyunderstand that they have a
(37:53):
work-life balance that you wantthem to uh have, but it starts
with you, they've got to seethat example in you because I've
had people that work for me thatif if I tell them, hey, go home,
well, you're still here.
Well, and I'm doing this.
Well, but let me help you.
No, no, no.
Okay, okay.
I told you to go home, I'll gohome, right?
(38:15):
Yes, you've got to you've got tosupport your people by
supporting a philosophy uh andliving it yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Yes, yes.
They must see you do it.
Yeah, so you have a new bookcoming out.
I do.
Uh can you share that?
And then if you can share yourcontact information for people
to to reach out if they want toget in touch with you.
SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
Yeah, the so the first book was called uh how to
lead without managing or withoutjust managing, and it's on
Amazon.
Second book is called BuildingGenuine Relationships: The
Leader's Guide to Connecting.
And uh, I hope to have it donewhat's today, the 13th.
I hope to have it done by theend of next week and out on
(38:56):
Amazon uh for uh sale.
Um, but my contact informationis you can find me at
williamcdavis.net and uh there Ihave articles that I've written,
uh I have podcasts uh much likeyours, the links there for
people to be able to jump to it.
Um the books that that I'mwriting are are the link to
(39:19):
Amazon is there.
So uh and also it it uh gives anumber of the titles of the
keynote addresses that Iprovide.
Uh and you know, I I work atkeynotes all the time.
So if somebody is some somebodysees a subject or has a subject
I don't see on there, they say,hey, can you do something and
I'll I'll work it up for them.
(39:39):
But uh, you know, this is uhthis is new for me.
So I've I've been at this lessthan two months, and and uh I
yeah, I'm I as we were talkingearlier, I'm I'm still trying to
feel my way around this process.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
You know, well, and which is great, you do you're
doing all the right things, um,getting on podcasts, writing
books, making yourselfaccessible.
I mean, you've done a phenomenaljob on the podcast, and and you
know, for us, you know, we'vebeen in business now 12 years,
so definitely don't mind being aphone call away from you as you
do what you you figure out thisthe landscape and the navigating
(40:11):
of the business.
But I mean, phenomenal.
I'm glad you shared your email.
You got books out, uh, if ourpeople can really reach out to
you.
Um, thank you so much, I mean,for being transparent and
sharing openly, you know, onUnpack with Ron Harvey, which is
what we do.
Um, is we talk real and we havea real conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (40:27):
No, Ron, I I enjoyed this a great deal.
I really appreciate you and anduh have enjoyed listening to
your other podcasts through thethrough the months prior to
joining you.
So appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Thank you, thank you.
Well, wish you the best as youdo it.
And for everyone that's with usall the time, we release a
podcast every Monday uh withdifferent guests from around the
world.
Um, feel free to share it.
If you know someone that youthink would be a great guest
that's going to add value to ouraudience, that's what the show
is really about.
Um, feel free to reach out tous.
You know, you can always find uson our company's webpage and it
gives you everything on GlobalCourse Strategies and
(40:59):
Consulting.
You'll find everything about meon there.
Um, it'll send you to myLinkedIn, which are the two
primary sources to reach us.
But until next time, William andI will sign off.
We wish you the best of luck inyour leadership journey.
Take care of your team, takecare of yourself, and the rest
will take care of everythingelse.
Uh, thank you all again forjoining us, and we'll sign in
off on Unpack with Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks sound advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are for the people youserve.
(41:41):
Because people always matter.
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host,
Leadership Consultant, RonHarvey of Global Core Strategies
and Consulting.
Ron believes that leadership isthe fundamental driver towards
making a difference.
So now, to find out more of whatit means to unpack leadership,
here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Good afternoon, everyone.
This is Ron Harvey, VicePresident, Chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting.
We own a leadership firm, youknow, specializing in helping
leaders become better connectedto their workforce and the
people that they were reallyresponsible for at the end of
the day.
We love it.
We've been in business about 12years, based out of Columbia,
South Carolina.
But I always, as you know, ifyou're following me, we do a
(00:42):
podcast called Unpack with RonHarvey.
Guests from around the world,there are no questions that are
preset.
We're not sure what we're goingto talk about, with the
exception of leadership.
And I'm I'm happy that ourguests are brave enough.
Most people are like, wait, sendme the questions first.
But all of our guests come onand we want to share something
that's going to be of value.
We want to share something thatyou can use that'll be helpful.
(01:02):
And we'll talk that we do ownbusinesses.
We do like to do work withdifferent organizations and
companies.
So our guests are prettytransparent and open.
So without any further ado, Iwant to be able to invite
William to you know introducehimself, what he wants you to
know about him before we diveinto the question.
But I always give our guests achance to say what they want to
say about themselves, and Idon't mess it up.
So, William, let me hand it toyou.
Whatever you want to share, youknow, the mic is yours.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Thank you, Ron.
I really appreciate it.
I I've really looked forward tobeing on this uh podcast with
you for several weeks, and andit's been great uh had talking
with you before we startedtoday.
Uh my name's William Davis.
Uh I live just outside ofDallas, Texas, have been here
about oh 20 years, 20 so 25years, I guess.
Um, and uh married, two kids,both uh in their 30s.
(01:49):
So uh I tell them now all thetimes that they were telling me
I was old, they're gettingthere.
So uh yeah.
But uh I I just retired um fromcorporate America after almost
40 years uh and started aconsulting firm of my own uh
last month that uh I focus ondoing keynotes.
(02:11):
And I actually just wrote a bookand finishing my second one that
maybe we'll get to talk about alittle bit later.
Um, but again, speakingspecifically on leadership and
and some of the things that overmy 38-year career uh I felt like
uh are missing in regards totraining our new generation of
folks that are coming up.
(02:33):
So that's what I'm I'm hoping todo.
Uh I I keep telling everybodyit's it's this is my opportunity
to give back.
Uh, I I've gotten so much frommy career and the people
associated with it, and and Ifeel like that I want to do
something to help prepare thenext group.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Yes, yes.
Thanks, William.
I mean, and you're right inalignment.
I mean, I'm glad andcongratulations on retirement
and and and doing somethingdifferent and giving back in in
the books.
So before we dive into any ofthe questions, I know you
already have a book out and Ialways want to share, you know,
with people, you know.
So what's the name of the book?
And if you have it anywherefloating next to you or near
you, love to promote that.
And then if you're allowed toshare what the new title may be
(03:11):
for something else you'rewriting, you can share that as
well.
So here's the opportunity topromote what you have already
and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
I appreciate that, Ron.
This is it.
It's called uh How to Lead.
Well, my my background is kindof messing up.
It's called How to Lead WithoutJust Managing.
It's available on Amazon, andthis particular book deals
specifically with the differencebetween leadership, yes, being a
manager, and being a boss,because those three terms are
used interchangeably all thetime, and they couldn't be a
(03:41):
more dramatic difference betweenthe three.
And I and I think you know, oneof the frustrations I always had
uh latter part of my career isyou would look at leadership
training corporations wouldhave.
Well, it's not any more thanjust managerical training.
How do I do hang on?
How do I check off the marks?
You know, how do I do this, howdo I do that?
And it's not ever dealing withthe true nature of leadership.
(04:06):
Leadership is about your people.
Leadership is not about thecheck marks on the list that the
managers have to do, it's allabout bringing my people to a
level of success where they cancontinue to feel good about what
they're doing, how they'redoing, and and you know, move on
(04:27):
with their career and and dowhat you've done.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Yeah, I'm glad you're sharing that, William.
So you think about the book, youknow, um, from the different
levels, you're right.
The the language can becomeinterchangeable and it's not the
same.
Yeah.
What have been some of thewhat's the one lesson that
you've learned throughout yourcareer, and I'm sure you've
learned a lot of them?
What stands out the most to you,something that you learned that
you still use today inleadership?
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
It's the building the connection with my people,
right?
And and and it they don't evenhave to be reporting to me,
right?
It's I just build the connectionbecause if you are going to have
a successful relationship withanybody, you've got to build a
connection that means somethingto them as much as it means to
(05:12):
you.
And in doing so, you you'rehelping build trust, uh loyalty,
a genuineness that they alwaysfeel like that you're looking
out for them and trying to dofor them what's in their best
interest, right?
And and what I've always foundis even when you build that kind
(05:35):
of relationship and and you haveto have the tough conversations,
the tough conversations areeasier because they feel like
that you are genuinely lookingout for them and not trying to
sabotage them.
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Yes, yes.
I I love it.
You know, I I I like to onthere, William, tell people it's
like you can have the greatestcell phone possible, whether
it's iPhone or Android.
If you don't have a connection,a Wi-Fi, that phone is pretty
useless.
Right.
It becomes a ticket really,really quick.
And I think that for people thatare listening, sometimes we have
you noticed that sometimesleaders let their titles get in
the way um because they rose tothe ranks, got this phenomenal
(06:11):
title, got this office, and allof a sudden they don't have a
connection.
How do leaders avoid lettingtheir titles get in the way?
SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
Well, I think it's it's got to start from the very
beginning of their career.
I I don't know that somebody canuh uh all of a sudden, you know,
I get the corner office, I getthe senior vice president title,
director, whatever.
I I don't know that they canchange spots, right?
Uh and and and suddenly becomesomething in regards to
(06:38):
connecting with people thatthey've not done genuinely
throughout their career.
I I always find it funny, Ron,that that um people who get in
those positions fail tounderstand it's the people under
them that allow them to succeed,right?
If if if I'm gonna get a, youknow, I work for a large company
(07:00):
and I'm gonna get a you know Xnumber of millions of dollars in
bonuses, uh, did I do that on myown, or is it because of the
people underneath me, right?
It's because of the peopleunderneath me.
And I need to make sure thatthat they're taken care of.
And I and I think, you know, asI have transitioned out and and
I have been able to speak out alittle bit more freely than what
(07:23):
I was, you know, prior.
Um the the thing that has alwaysannoyed me so much is you know,
we have brought into existencethis bell curve ranking or
forced ranking or stack stackedranking.
And all to me it is is an excuseof how do I penalize people of a
(07:46):
certain amount of money so I canpay the bigwigs more.
Yeah, wow.
Uh, and and I would encourageeverybody to go back and look at
annual reports of companies thatthey've worked for where they've
gotten ripped off of the oftheir uh bonuses, or you know,
let's let's even talk about uhraises, you know, you know,
(08:10):
corporate leaders get raises offive, ten, fifteen percent while
the the rank and file folks getone, two, three percent.
Well, how are they supposed tosurvive on that when inflation's
six percent, seven percent,eight percent, right?
And and you, you know, to yourquestion, and I know I'm going a
(08:30):
long way around this, to yourquestion is they have to
understand that the people thatwork for them are human beings
that have issues they have todeal with on a daily basis.
They have bills, they have kids,they have families, they have
homes, all these challenges thatthey have to deal with, and they
are counting you on you as aleader to do your part to make
(08:54):
sure that they're taken care of.
And when you fail in thatregard, you don't need to be in
the position you're in becauseyou you're too selfish, is my
personal opinion.
You're too selfish to be in thatrole.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah, which is an interesting point, though, when
you when you think about it, itis our society flawed in that
way, then, because mostorganizations, the higher you
go, the more the bonuses, themore the pay is, the more the
perks are, the more the bigoffers is.
Um, and and and we almost havethis entitlement mentality when
we're the CEO, there's a certainlevel of revenue that comes with
(09:27):
that.
How do you begin to balance thisout where it's not where
corporate America or the bigwigs are getting the bulk of the
revenue that is flowing throughthe entire organization?
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
That's a great question, Ron.
I I think you know one of thethings that uh you have to start
with is helping them understandthat uh the the people that work
for them, the people they haverelationships with are human
beings, right?
And the the golden rule is isalways the best, in my opinion,
to follow.
(09:59):
Do unto others as you'd havethem do under you.
And and and if you would reversethe the positions between you
and the people that work foryou, you wouldn't accept or you
wouldn't be happy, or youwouldn't, you know, feel right
about getting a one and twopercent raise or only getting
75% of your bonus when you know.
(10:20):
So to me, it's it's a a uh youhave to look inwardly at
yourself and and really analyzewho am I?
Am I really this selfish?
Am I really this self-centered?
Or am I truly a leader who isgoing to do everything possible,
(10:42):
even to the point of uhsacrificing some things for the
people who are loyal and andallow me to be in the position
I'm in?
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Wow.
I mean, you give it a lot tounpack.
So so, William, as you look at,I mean, I love that you're in
the leadership background andyou've been in corporate
America, uh, and you'vetransitioned, you know, you're
doing a company now, which meansyou want to give back, as we
were talking in the green room,you want to give back.
How important it was for you asyou were starting the young
version of you, and you look atwhere you are now, what piece of
(11:14):
advice would you give youryounger version?
SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
Well, uh that's great.
That's a great question becauseI was thinking about that the
other day.
My younger version was the veryarrogant, self-centered, it's
all about me, right?
Yeah, and and I I wanted to besuccessful, and oftentimes my
success uh came at the expenseof someone else, right?
(11:37):
Or at least in my mindset, I waswilling to go that far, right?
And so the the thing that I havetried to help young leaders
understand now is the reputationthat you make now and the the
pattern that you follow inleadership now is what's gonna
follow you through the remainderof your career.
(11:59):
Because short of somecatastrophic situation occurring
in your life, who you are as ayoung leader is gonna be who you
are later on, because generallyyou're getting you're becoming
more and more successful as yourcareer goes on.
And so if I don't need to changewhat's gotten me to the point
(12:21):
where I'm at, why would I?
Right?
And so if I'm not treatingpeople with respect, if if I'm
not building trust, I'm notbuilding loyalty, and uh again,
not treating them as a humanbeing, then there's not going to
be, as I get more successful,not gonna be any more reason,
any reason for me to changethat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Yeah, I mean that yeah, because you you've been
rewarded, and so people willwill repeat what they're
rewarded for.
So I totally I've always told ifyou want it to get repeated,
rewarded, and you'll see itagain.
How how important was it foryou, you know, throughout your
journey or your career?
You know, first did you havementors in place and and why if
you had them?
SPEAKER_02 (13:03):
I I did have a mentor uh very early on in my
career, right after I got out ofcollege when I went to work for
the bank.
Uh, I went to work for the homecompany uh out of St.
Louis.
I was living in Oklahoma City atthe time.
And he uh great guy.
I mean, he and I are stillfriends 30 35 years later, uh,
and and talk a couple of times aweek.
(13:26):
Um he very you know early onshowed me that don't take
yourself too seriously, youknow, don't don't take yourself
too seriously.
And and again, it was all thatwe're we win together, we lose
together.
Right?
I I'm only as successful as asthe weakest link, if you will,
(13:48):
or the least successful of mypeople.
And to me, um one of the thingsthat he taught me early on was I
am not competing with my folks,right?
I am I am complimenting my folksuh from the perspective of
everything I can do to help makethem successful.
(14:10):
And if they're successful, hey,that's exactly what I'm looking
for.
And I think part of thechallenge that I've seen uh
through the years, and this goesback to what you and I were
talking a little bit aboutearlier, is too many quote
unquote leaders look at theirpeople as competition, and
they're not competition.
(14:30):
You know, if I have somebody andthey bypass me in their career,
great, man, that's awesome.
That's what I want for them,right?
Because at the end of the day, Ihave other things in my life.
I have my wife, I have my kids,you know, retirement opens up a
whole new uh opportunity uh atlife.
(14:53):
But if I am constantly lookingat my people as competition, I'm
always going to do something,you know, whether it's uh
consciously or unconsciously, tosabotage not only them, but you
know, the team and the companyas a whole.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Wow, wow.
Phenomenal.
I love I love the story thatyou're sharing.
In your time of leadership, youknow, corporate America, and
you're raising a family, you gothow do you help people that are
that are insecure in their role?
You know, you hire someone andwe look at resumes and what is
really phenomenal, outstanding,young, up-and-coming person.
But then when they come, we puta lid on them because we're
(15:32):
insecure.
How do you help leaders thatthat get past this insecurity of
having someone on your teamthat's younger, better, faster,
smarter to take the organizationto another level, but don't get
in the way of that?
How do you help me if I'minsecure in my role because I
have someone behind me that'sbetter than me?
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
I I I always encourage them to look at, hey,
what can you learn from them?
Right?
What can you learn from them andwhat can you implement, right?
And if they're that great, hey,think about the fantastic team
you two can make together,right?
Think of all the things that youcan do together.
Uh and again, it goes back tothis, it's not me versus them,
(16:10):
it's us, right?
It's we, we are accomplishingthis.
And and so that to me is hasalways been where I've started
out is you gotta look behalf,you gotta look past yourself.
You've got to look at the biggerpicture of we are a team, we are
accomplishing together, and Iwant them to succeed.
(16:32):
When they succeed, I succeed.
And and if you can't have thatkind of mentality, I question
whether you really need to be aleader or not.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Yes, yes, 11.
How do you help us on when youlook at it, William, and you
think about the value of makingsure that you do performance
appraisals and feedback?
You know, some leaders don't doperformance appraisals in a
timely, accurate manner, or ifthey do them at all, or they
hand it to their staff and tellthem to do their own.
How valuable is it for us asleaders to ensure we're doing
(17:01):
performance appraisals with ourwith our team on a on a
consistent basis and not just atthe end of the year, but
quarterly check-ins to getpeople to the end of the year,
there's no surprise.
SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
You know, yeah, how important is that?
I it's incredibly important.
And and again, I I would saythat that is one of the one of
the things that led me todeciding to retire because that
whole process is just ridiculousat this point.
Um, you know, if I am if I'mtruly leading my folks and and
trying to do the best I can forthem, I need to be talking to
(17:33):
them at least once or twice aweek, if not, you know, more,
right?
And and it's and it's not alwaysa um a negative conversation or
a hey, it's uh you know, youneed to do better here.
It's a hey man, that was great.
I I love the way you did that.
I love the way you broughteverybody together, you know,
keep doing that, right?
(17:54):
My job as a leader is to be aleader, right?
It's to take my people to thenext level, and that's my job.
And and if I'm not communicatingwith them on a regular basis,
then I'm not doing what I shouldbe doing.
Now, conversely, I need to beable to take the feedback also,
(18:16):
right?
If if I do something that, hey,somebody from my team comes to
me and says, you know what, thatreally didn't go over well, or
that didn't really work well, Ineed to be willing to listen to
it and I need to be willing toadjust to it.
Uh, because just becausesomething I've done has worked
in the past doesn't mean it'sgoing to work with a group of
people that I've got now.
(18:38):
Because everybody's different.
And that's one of the things Iwrite about in my new book uh
about building genuinerelationships, is the building
of a relationship with your teamhas to be on an individual
basis.
I have to find what is uh theright approach to building a
(19:00):
relationship with person A,person B, person C, it's not
gonna be a one size fits all.
And in doing that, uh then, youknow, these conversations that I
have with them on a weekly basisor or whatever, um, it is gonna
be able to go back and forthbecause we've got a comfort
level with each other that wecan be honest.
(19:21):
And we can, if I tell you, Ron,hey, you know what, you and I
have a great relationship.
I want you to be totally honestwith me.
And the first time you saysomething negative toward me, I
I go off in a huff or or I starttreating you differently.
I've I have totally damaged thatrelationship because that level
of trust is no longer there thatthey thought that we had
(19:43):
together.
And so I've got to be able tolisten and I've got to be able
to change if needed.
But then I've also, if I feelit's still the best approach, I
still got to be able to expandon or expound on why I think
it's the right approach.
And hey, let's work together andsee if we can refine it and make
it best.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Yes.
I mean, phenomenal informationwhere you so as you look at the
opportunity, you mentionedtrust.
How do you help leaders rebuildtrust after they've done
something to erode it?
You know, they've made a mistakeor they said a wrong comment, or
or they got or they huff andpuff and they got feedback and
they didn't respond to it well,which which really begins to
erode trust.
How do you help a leader recoverfrom it when they've made a
(20:26):
mistake?
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
The first thing I tell them is you've got to get
back in there with your team andyou've got to work with them.
They've got to see you doing thework with them that they have
been doing.
And the reason, excuse me, thereason that I say that is when
you're in there working withthem, you're hearing them,
(20:48):
right?
You're hearing what they'resaying, you're hearing how
they're reasoning, then you canprovide input.
Sorry, Ron.
You can provide input and theystart they start getting to
interacting with you in such away where you guys are now
moving toward a common goal, acommon purpose.
(21:10):
Um, I've seen a lot of guys whowho run the trust with their
team and they try to rebuild itfrom afar, and and that's not
gonna happen.
If you're not there with yourteam where you're able to
interact, should interact withthem, they're able to see your
genuineness and you're able tosee their genuineness, you're
not gonna be able to rebuildthat trust.
(21:31):
So you got to jump right back inwith the team.
It's gonna be uncomfortable atfirst, it's gonna be tense at
first, but you as leader have tobe able to set the tone for I
want to make amends, I want tomake this relationship right
again.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
Yeah, I hear in there, um, and you can correct
me on here, William.
There's a level of of beingwilling to be vulnerable in that
space.
Can you speak to about thevulnerability that leaders have
to show?
When I grew up, it was don't letthem see you sweat, don't let
them see your emotions, don'tlet them know your mistakes.
You know, you're always rightand you got all the answers.
That's that's not reality.
That command and control andalways having the answers is not
(22:08):
reality anymore.
Can you speak to vulnerabilityfor leaders that are listening?
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
Well, you have to be vulnerable, you have to show it
because if not, people are gonnaperceive you as fake because
they know, like you said, that'snot reality.
And uh, you know, my wifeconsistently tells me things
I've done wrong.
So I I'm not I'm not uh I'm notuh uh uh I'm always used to
hearing that, right?
(22:31):
So I I can share that withfolks.
You know, I if you can't makefun of yourself, if you can't
lay out your weaknesses or yourfailures or your frailties, then
I'm not sure you're ever able togrow past them, right?
When I, you know, uh one of theteams that that I had for about
(22:55):
10 years, we traveled about 75%of the time for about 10 years.
We were there Sunday nightthrough you know Friday.
And you know, we spent eight,twelve, fourteen hours a day
together.
And I had a rule that we gottogether at every night at
dinner together.
(23:16):
We ate dinner together, right?
But we didn't talk business.
We always talked everythingother than business, and it's
amazing what comes out of thoseconversations because you share
things, you know.
Man, I can't believe I racked Ibacked into a tree and you know,
pulling out of my driveway,right?
(23:36):
Well, you know, that may besilly and that may not be very
necessarily along with businessfailure, but they see that you
have had challenges, right?
Just like they did.
Oh gosh, I backed out andknocked over my neighbor's
mailbox, right?
You know, and and when you whenyou start showing the real side
(23:58):
to you or to yourself, toothers, then you're able to work
through challenges that youhave, right?
And I and I give you a perfectexample.
Um, you know, we were sitting atdinner one night and and I I was
talking about uh you knowsomething that I had done just
completely stupid, you know, andand I'm not gonna mention it
(24:20):
online, but uh I had just doneit completely stupid.
And somebody looked at me andsays, Oh, no, that's that's
nothing.
I did something and they namedoff something worse, right?
And then I had somebody elsesay, Oh, that's nothing.
I, you know, it's so we kind ofstarted making a game out of,
okay, what silly thing did youdo over the weekend, or what's
your worst, you know.
So it became a not acompetition, but it became a
(24:44):
safe space.
Yes, became a safe space that wewere able to just talk, have
fun, share, learn, right?
There were there were a numberof times when somebody would say
this happened, and it became aserious conversation between the
group, and and we helped peoplework out the challenges they
had.
So if you're not willing to showvulnerability and the fact that
(25:06):
you fail, just like everybodyelse, then you're never gonna
build any kind of uh validrelationship with your team.
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Yes, yes.
So when you think when you thinkof William, you know, from from
going from you know, youmentioned the different roles,
managers, leaders, you know.
How do you help like when you'rea technical expert and you're
the one that got all the answersand you're really, really good,
and then all of a sudden you'rein a leadership role?
How do you help people make thattransition?
Because it's very difficult.
(25:39):
I'm a veteran, that's one of thehardest things that we've always
said.
Like when you get promoted, howdo you get out of this this
do-it-yourself, you know, um, asversus delegating and trusting
and empowering people?
That's difficult.
It's easy to say, but difficultto do.
What are some strategies to helppeople get out of their own way
and step into their leadershiprole?
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Well, I think the first thing that you have to to
make clear to the the team isthat I am always here for help,
right?
Yeah I I'm not gonna sit hereand judge you.
You know, I I might I might doit X way, right?
But if you do it Y way, I'm notgonna sit there and say, oh,
that's wrong, right?
Uh so I you've got to make themcomfortable that as you step out
(26:23):
of that, you know, day-to-dayoperational type role, that they
have the um the freedom to cometo you to discuss what's going
on, and they're not gonna bejudged, you know, or or have
negative uh, you know, walk awayfrom the conversation negative
with a negative feeling, right?
(26:43):
I've also suggested to them toleaders that you know just
because you step away from theday-to-day doesn't necessarily
mean that you have to step awayfrom listening in to what
they're they're talking about,right?
And and still providingguidance, right?
I may not tell them A to B tosee how to do it, but I might
(27:05):
offer them guidance.
Hey, have you ever thought aboutthis?
Okay, and again, allowing themto understand that you are still
attached, you still have a uhyou know, a stake in what's
going on, and again, you youwant to help them succeed.
So it is a very delicatebalancing act, but I think you
(27:28):
know, if you go into it from aperspective of making sure my
team understands they've got thefreedom to come to me without
judgment, that you know, we'llyou know, we'll talk through
whatever, uh, and I'm not gonnahang you know hammer them on the
head because I disagree withmaybe the direction they're
going and and the fact that I'mgonna drop in every once in a
while and and just listen to theconversation and offer them
(27:49):
guidance.
I I think that goes a long wayto starting to make that
transition easier for bothsides.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Awesome.
Thank you.
How do you help?
I mean, what did you do?
I want to say how did you help?
How did you manage self-carewhen you were in a in an
executive role?
And and and and of course youcan burn the candles at both
ends, and it's not healthy.
How did you what did you do tomake sure you manage self-care?
SPEAKER_02 (28:12):
Well, early years I didn't.
I I did a very poor job of it,right?
I I, you know, in order to beseen, in order to be uh uh uh at
the front of things, I wouldtravel, you know, middle of the
afternoon on Sunday and not comehome till late Friday night,
sometimes you know, early intothe hours of Saturday morning.
(28:33):
And and I lost a lot of um greatparenting time and a lot of
great spousal time because ofit.
Um and you know, one of thethings that that uh woke me up
was in '98, the the bank I hadbeen working for, uh, you know,
(28:54):
and we had worked on mergers andacquisitions for a number of
years, and we were bought.
And all that work that we haddone over the previous five,
six, seven years was now all ofa sudden worthless.
Because who bought us was nowgoing to come in and do it
differently.
And I told myself at that timethat was the stupidest thing
(29:18):
you've ever done because youhave now lost something that
you'll never be able to get backfor something that was so easily
thrown away.
Wow.
And so from that point on, andthis was 98 when we moved down
here to the Dallas area.
Uh, from that point on, Irefused to do that.
(29:41):
I I caught, you know, I caughtthe flights everybody else did.
You know, if they flew outMonday morning, I flew out
Monday morning.
If I they flew back Fridaymorning, I flew back Friday
morning.
I was not going to shortchangethe organization, right?
I was gonna do what I was notwhat I needed to do, but I was.
No longer going to shortchangemy family, and I was no longer
(30:03):
going to shortchange myself.
And that is a conscious effort,uh, and a conscious decision
that you have to make that norole is worth your health.
And I'll give you a perfectexample.
Uh, the that transition, thatthat purchase that uh was made
(30:24):
of our organization, thegentleman who was going to be
our new boss, my group's newboss, came from this new
organization or the purchasingorganization, and he was flying
in and out of St.
Louis every week uh doingdifferent things.
And he was at the time, he wasprobably late 40s, maybe 50 at
(30:47):
the time, and he came in one oneFriday night late and uh told
his wife, you know, I don't feelvery well, and sat down in his
chair in the middle of hisliving room, and they found him
the next morning dead.
unknown (31:00):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (31:01):
And you think, oh well, it just had to be his
lifestyle.
No, the guy was a marathonrunner, the guy was as fit as
anybody I've ever seen in mylife, and that woke me up to the
fact of you know, gosh, there'sgot to be more to this than than
you know, just this traveling,and and so um you have you have
(31:26):
to make life more about than thejob and the career, because at
some point it goes away.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yes, yes.
I'll tell you when you you know,um, and I actually use that all
the time because you know wedidn't always get it right, um,
and we're trying to put youknow, plant seeds and help
understand the importance of it.
I think the statement that stuckwith me, you know, um that I use
when I travel and people ask methat same question.
I say, don't be a public successand a private failure.
SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
There you go.
That's great.
Yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Because publicly everybody loves you, but your
family, if you go ask them,they're like, Yeah, but you're
never home.
You're never you're missing alot of things that you don't
necessarily have to miss.
SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
Yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
There's always gonna be the next opportunity or the
next thing that you can make, orthe next you know, no big deal
you can make, you know.
But if your family is missingyou, you want to pay attention
to that.
And I tell leaders all the time,don't publicly be great, but
probably you'll fell inmiserably.
That's your health, that's yourfinances, that's your family,
that's your faith.
If you're a faith person, likeall those other things that make
up your entire life, payattention to them.
(32:25):
Um, because you can't get thosethings back.
You know, it it's it reallyhurts you long term.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
And and and again, that'spermanent, right?
I mean, that though that damageis permanent.
It's it's uh like you said, it'sit's just uh you can't get it
back.
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Are there any things as we look at time force here?
What would you leave theaudience with?
Are there three things you say,hey Ron, you know, in
leadership, you know, you run aconsulting firm, you're you've
had you had a lot of years ofexperience.
Are there three things you sayfrom your wisdom of all those
years and running a company now?
What what would you leave withleaders that are listening that
say, hey, give me something thatthat I can implement right now
today?
What would you tell them?
SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
Well, the first thing I would do is tell them to
change the way they look attheir people.
unknown (33:08):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (33:09):
If you don't see your people as human beings with
real issues, real challenges,real desires, real uh passions,
then you're not ever going to bethe type of leader that you
could be, right?
And so to me, that that's themost incredible thing uh that
that you do.
(33:29):
And that's to the the point ofmy second book is it's all about
building that relationships.
Uh and again, it has to be doneon an individual basis.
There's not going to be a rightway to do it with everybody, you
know.
Um, and I'll give you just ifyou don't mind, a couple of
quick examples.
(33:49):
Uh, you know, I had a a youngman that worked for me and he
loved golf.
And uh back in that back inthose days, I was still playing
golf.
And I I said, okay, well, let'sjust go play golf.
And he's like, Oh, okay.
So we went out on the golfcourse one afternoon, you know,
and you'd be amazed at thenumber of things that we talked
(34:12):
about, right?
Because if if I say I want toget to know you, Ron, and I
invite you into my office or Iinvite you into the boardroom,
uh, that's not gonna work.
That that's that's not I'm gonnaget I'm gonna get a little bit
of Ron, right?
Yeah, but it I met him on agrounds, on the grounds that he
was comfortable with, right?
(34:32):
And and we opened up and it wasa little tense at first, but you
know, by the time we were theback nine, man, everything was
fair game, you know.
Um, and I had a young lady uhthe same way, she um kind of
introverted, but she liked totake walks during the course of
her day every day.
And at the time the facility wewere working at had a big lake,
(34:53):
so we just walked around.
I asked her, Can I join you?
And you know, we walked aroundthat lake, you know, four or
five times, and by the time thehour was up, boy, I I knew a
bunch about her, right?
And and so I knew as as shedealt with things, I I knew how
to handle it, right?
I knew how to approach her, howto delegate for her, and and so
(35:18):
forth.
Um the the second thing I wouldsay to to leaders is do not be
afraid to allow your people timeoff when needed, right?
I I you know we we have gotten,and and I hate this, but we
(35:39):
we've gotten to this uh kind ofan open-ended time off in
corporate America, right?
Well, what it has done though isit's almost made people uh feel
guilty about taking time off.
Yes, right?
You know, I used to have threeweeks and then four weeks and
then five weeks based on thenumber of years of service I
(36:00):
had.
Well, now we have, you know,just you know, take time off as
you need it.
Well, uh I have seen a lot ofpeople who's like, God, I feel
guilty about doing that.
Well, why?
It's your time.
And if I have a truerelationship with my people, I
want them to be able to come tome and say, you know what, I got
(36:22):
this situation going on at home.
I don't need to know thedetails, but I know them well
enough to know that this isimportant to them, and they need
to be able to deal with it, andI need to support them in that
manner.
So, hey, work at home, right?
Hey, we we did this for fiveyears in corporate America, it
didn't go down the tubes, right?
(36:42):
But all of a sudden we feel likepeople don't come back to the
office, then then you knoweverything is gonna go to uh a
wasteland or something.
Um, you know, let them work athome.
Uh if they need the time off,say, you know what, take it.
Don't worry about it, we'llcover for you.
Right?
(37:02):
Don't make people feel guiltyfor needing time off.
Don't act like it's animposition on you.
They're owed that time, let themhave it.
And then the third thing is Iwould make sure that people
relay to their people, I expecta work-life balance.
I do not expect 50, 60, 70, 80hours consistently out of you.
(37:28):
I expect you to work yourschedule and I expect you to go
home.
And when you go home, I don'texpect you to sign on when you
get home.
What you have left will be heretomorrow, right?
And we're not gonna, you know,close up doors because you
didn't finish an email orbecause you didn't finish a
presentation, or make sure theyunderstand that they have a
(37:53):
work-life balance that you wantthem to uh have, but it starts
with you, they've got to seethat example in you because I've
had people that work for me thatif if I tell them, hey, go home,
well, you're still here.
Well, and I'm doing this.
Well, but let me help you.
No, no, no.
Okay, okay.
I told you to go home, I'll gohome, right?
(38:15):
Yes, you've got to you've got tosupport your people by
supporting a philosophy uh andliving it yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Yes, yes.
They must see you do it.
Yeah, so you have a new bookcoming out.
I do.
Uh can you share that?
And then if you can share yourcontact information for people
to to reach out if they want toget in touch with you.
SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
Yeah, the so the first book was called uh how to
lead without managing or withoutjust managing, and it's on
Amazon.
Second book is called BuildingGenuine Relationships: The
Leader's Guide to Connecting.
And uh, I hope to have it donewhat's today, the 13th.
I hope to have it done by theend of next week and out on
(38:56):
Amazon uh for uh sale.
Um, but my contact informationis you can find me at
williamcdavis.net and uh there Ihave articles that I've written,
uh I have podcasts uh much likeyours, the links there for
people to be able to jump to it.
Um the books that that I'mwriting are are the link to
(39:19):
Amazon is there.
So uh and also it it uh gives anumber of the titles of the
keynote addresses that Iprovide.
Uh and you know, I I work atkeynotes all the time.
So if somebody is some somebodysees a subject or has a subject
I don't see on there, they say,hey, can you do something and
I'll I'll work it up for them.
(39:39):
But uh, you know, this is uhthis is new for me.
So I've I've been at this lessthan two months, and and uh I
yeah, I'm I as we were talkingearlier, I'm I'm still trying to
feel my way around this process.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
You know, well, and which is great, you do you're
doing all the right things, um,getting on podcasts, writing
books, making yourselfaccessible.
I mean, you've done a phenomenaljob on the podcast, and and you
know, for us, you know, we'vebeen in business now 12 years,
so definitely don't mind being aphone call away from you as you
do what you you figure out thisthe landscape and the navigating
(40:11):
of the business.
But I mean, phenomenal.
I'm glad you shared your email.
You got books out, uh, if ourpeople can really reach out to
you.
Um, thank you so much, I mean,for being transparent and
sharing openly, you know, onUnpack with Ron Harvey, which is
what we do.
Um, is we talk real and we havea real conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (40:27):
No, Ron, I I enjoyed this a great deal.
I really appreciate you and anduh have enjoyed listening to
your other podcasts through thethrough the months prior to
joining you.
So appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Thank you, thank you.
Well, wish you the best as youdo it.
And for everyone that's with usall the time, we release a
podcast every Monday uh withdifferent guests from around the
world.
Um, feel free to share it.
If you know someone that youthink would be a great guest
that's going to add value to ouraudience, that's what the show
is really about.
Um, feel free to reach out tous.
You know, you can always find uson our company's webpage and it
gives you everything on GlobalCourse Strategies and
(40:59):
Consulting.
You'll find everything about meon there.
Um, it'll send you to myLinkedIn, which are the two
primary sources to reach us.
But until next time, William andI will sign off.
We wish you the best of luck inyour leadership journey.
Take care of your team, takecare of yourself, and the rest
will take care of everythingelse.
Uh, thank you all again forjoining us, and we'll sign in
off on Unpack with Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack
Podcast with leadershipconsultant Ron Harvey.
Remember to join us every Mondayas Ron Unpacks sound advice,
providing real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, remember to addvalue and make a difference
where you are for the people youserve.
(41:41):
Because people always matter.
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