December 10, 2024 • 52 mins
Cormac makes his well coiffed debut appearance and brings a bit of 90’s swagger to the strip. But will he be foiled by the Good Ol’ Flying Ace? Also, we learn that Loni Anderson played Blondie, and the strip was pretty good too. Plus: Hippi, Modi, and Go Go!
Protons and Fleurons: Twenty-Two Elements of Fiction by Sarah Hinlicky Wilson is available at https://thornbushpress.com/product/protons-and-fleurons-twenty-two-elements-of-fiction/
Transcript available at UnpackingPeanuts.com
Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, and Harold Buchholz. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show follow @unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads, and @unpackingpeanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Thanks for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
VO (00:02):
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.
Jimmy (00:18):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the show.
This is Unpacking Peanuts, and today we're wrapping up 1992.
I'll be your host for the proceedings.
My name is Jimmy Gownley.
I'm also a cartoonist.
I did things like Amelia Rules, Seven Greases Not to Grow Up, and The Dumbest Idea Ever.
You can read my new comic, Tanner Rocks, over at gvillecomics.substack.com.
Joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts, and fellow cartoonists.
(00:41):
He's a playwright and a composer both for the band Complicated People as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original Comic Book Price Guide, the original editor for Amelia Rule, and the creator of such great strips as The Gathering of Spells, Tangled River, and the currently being completed, Strange Attractors, Michael Cohen.
Michael (01:00):
Say hey.
Jimmy (01:01):
And he's the executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics, and the current creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beasts, it's Harold Buchholz.
Harold (01:11):
Hello.
Jimmy (01:12):
All right, guys, 1992, wrapping it up.
Does anyone have anything by way of prelude or should we just get right to the good old strips?
Harold (01:21):
Yeah, we can go right in.
Michael (01:22):
Do it.
Jimmy (01:23):
September 6th, 1992, Charlie Brown's sleeping in his comfy looking bed and his sister comes into the bedroom to wake him up gently, we assume, in the first two panels.
But then panel three, Sally just starts screaming, school starts tomorrow.
Charlie Brown sent flying.
He lands on the floor.
Good grief.
(01:44):
Sally continues yelling, get all your school clothes ready.
Charlie Brown puts on his classic striped shirt and then sits down at the breakfast table and Sally's still screaming, eat a good breakfast.
School starts tomorrow.
Get those books ready.
Sharpen those pencils.
Charlie Brown's tumbling head over heels and then Sally goes back to bed.
(02:07):
Charlie Brown finds her there and asks, what are you doing back in bed?
School starts tomorrow, to which Sally replies, who cares?
Michael (02:17):
So someone sent me an article which kind of analyzed the Peanuts characters, kind of summarized them, and he called Sally a nihilist.
Jimmy (02:29):
Okay.
Michael (02:30):
Would you agree with that assessment?
Jimmy (02:32):
No.
Michael (02:34):
No?
Jimmy (02:34):
No, I don't think she's a nihilist, no.
A nihilist sees no value in anything.
Michael (02:40):
Well, who cares, kind of summing that up?
Jimmy (02:44):
Well, she sees no value in other people's things, but she sees value in Linus, for example.
Michael (02:50):
Yeah, that's true.
Jimmy (02:51):
You know?
Is there anything else?
What else is Sally pro?
Television?
Michael (02:56):
TV.
TV.
Even though she yells at it and insults it.
Jimmy (03:00):
So she's going to be an executive someday, that'll be good.
Michael (03:03):
Yeah.
Jimmy (03:05):
Oh, by the way, I just have to say this.
So I went to see my lovely daughter, Anna, in a play at her school.
And it was a student-written play.
And she played the role of a disgruntled science fiction writer on a panel at a Comic Con.
Michael (03:22):
Really?
Jimmy (03:23):
Yes.
And she did not write this play.
But I've never seen myself portrayed.
I felt so seen.
There was a line she delivered.
She goes, if you think I'm going to work with that idiot again, you're more delusional than he is.
And I just sank down in my seat.
Michael (03:47):
But by no stretch would you be called a science fiction.
Jimmy (03:50):
That's true.
That was the part that was fictional.
But yeah, it was on the nose.
October 1st, Marcie and Peppermint Patty are sitting in their desks.
And Peppermint Patty says, I got a D-minus in our spelling test.
I got a D-minus in our math test.
(04:10):
And I got a D-minus in our Spanish test.
And Marcie says to her, what do you think that means, sir?
Which Peppermint Patty says, we live in interesting times.
Michael (04:21):
The old Chinese curse.
Jimmy (04:26):
Now, would you have said in a math test or on a math test?
I would have said on.
Michael (04:32):
Definitely on.
Jimmy (04:33):
Yeah.
Right.
Harold (04:34):
Yeah.
Jimmy (04:35):
Yeah.
I don't know if that's just unique to Schulz's childhood or something or just that he got it wrong.
Harold (04:41):
Yeah.
Maybe maybe that's a Minnesota ism.
It's like standing in line or online.
Jimmy (04:47):
Online, right?
Harold (04:48):
Online is a New York thing and I always say in line.
Jimmy (04:53):
You're in New York, Harold, for God's sake.
Liz (04:57):
It makes me feel sorry for all the people who have to learn prepositions in English.
Right.
Jimmy (05:05):
Could you guys recite the prepositions right now if you had to?
Harold (05:08):
Nope.
Jimmy (05:09):
Catholic school, baby.
I'll do that on my deathbed.
I won't know my name, but on about above the cross, after, against, among, around, I won't do them all for you, but yes.
Liz (05:17):
Yeah.
I can do the Kings and Queens of England since 1066.
Jimmy (05:21):
Wow.
Michael (05:21):
Wow.
You've done this before.
Liz (05:24):
I probably have.
Jimmy (05:25):
On the podcast?
Michael (05:27):
I think so.
She does it at least once a day.
Liz (05:30):
Everywhere.
Trotted out at cocktail parties.
Michael (05:35):
It is impressive.
Jimmy (05:36):
We also had to learn the alphabet backwards.
That was another weird thing.
Michael (05:40):
What?
Brain would blow up.
Jimmy (05:42):
Z-Y-X-W-V-U-T-S-R-Q-P-O-N-M-L-K-J-I-H-G-F-E-D-C-B-A.
Liz (05:48):
That would be good if you got stopped for drinking.
Jimmy (05:51):
I'm waiting.
So I don't drink, but I drive badly just hoping to get pulled over.
Harold (06:01):
Well, my dad told me that somehow when he learned, I don't know how this worked, but he didn't know the order of the alphabet.
He knew all the letters until he was like later on.
I think he had to use a dictionary like in junior high or something.
He's like, oh, wow.
Jimmy (06:18):
That is so weird.
Harold (06:20):
Isn't that strange?
Jimmy (06:22):
I don't even know how you would do that.
Harold (06:24):
I don't either.
Because I thought every school had the A, B, C, D, E, F, G all along the top of the board or whatever.
Jimmy (06:31):
Maybe he went to some sort of dot S.
Michael (06:32):
I never knew the order of the numbers, but I knew all the numbers.
Jimmy (06:43):
October 8th.
Wow.
This is a six-panel daily strip.
We have Sally and her new friend, the little kid.
What is his name again?
Did anyone remember?
Harold (06:53):
Cormac.
Jimmy (06:55):
Yeah, Cormac with his floppy 90s home improvement hair.
So they're standing on the street corner there and Cormac looks away and he looks back at Sally and he looks away and he looks back at Sally and he looks away and he says to her, I plan to grow.
Harold (07:12):
Because he is shorter than Sally.
Jimmy (07:20):
Yes, I see it.
I am really intrigued by his 90s hair.
Michael (07:25):
Without it, it's Charlie Brown.
Jimmy (07:28):
It is Charlie Brown.
Oh, that is really weird, a little miniature rerun Charlie Brown.
Michael (07:37):
He's got a toupee, and he's hitting on his sister.
Jimmy (07:40):
He's got a toupee.
Oh, that would be a fun strip.
Charlie Brown tries to turn things around, but joined in the hair club for nine-year-olds.
Harold (07:51):
Yeah.
I don't know what it is about Cormac, but he does feel 90s to me.
He seems to have this easy confidence in himself.
He's not questioning a lot of things.
Yeah, he just seems to take life in stride, which is a little unusual for characters in peanuts.
(08:13):
It's interesting to see him step into this world and just sail through it.
Jimmy (08:18):
Yeah.
Liz (08:20):
It does remind me of the coming back to 10th grade after I was six inches taller than all of the boys in ninth grade, and then come back in September and they have started to grow.
Harold (08:36):
Oh, wow.
How did that feel?
Liz (08:39):
Like the way things should be.
Harold (08:41):
Right.
Jimmy (08:44):
October 9th, 1992, Cormac and Sally are hanging out in classrooms.
Cormac's behind her in class, and he says, I'm shorter than you now, but someday I'll be taller than you.
Cormac continues, I'll be real tall and you'll have to look straight up to see my eyes.
And then Sally says, if a person has a nice smile, Cormac, nothing else matters.
(09:08):
To which Cormac replies, I'll have a nice smile and very tall teeth.
I'm heavily into this hairdo of Cormac.
Yeah.
Like it is wild.
I think he has a lot of confidence.
But now that I see Charlie Brown's head underneath it, I'm really confused.
Harold (09:32):
So what do you think of Sally's response?
You're talking about Sally's nihilist.
She's got a pretty nice observation here.
Michael (09:41):
It is a nice observation, but totally out of character.
Liz (09:44):
You think?
Well, wasn't Cormac hitting on Marcie?
Michael (09:49):
He's a player.
Jimmy (09:50):
If you had that look, come on, he's not a one woman man.
Look it, he's got that quaff going.
Harold (09:57):
He's playing the field here.
Jimmy (10:01):
It's actually kind of very early 90s because it's not quite moose.
It's just large and unwieldy.
I'm jealous of Cormac if I have to say so.
Harold (10:15):
Yeah, I'm enjoying him as kind of slipping into the strip here.
Again, another surprise for me, I had not seen him before as a character, not having read this era of Peanuts.
I like the fact that it feels like Peanuts is in the 90s thanks to him.
Jimmy (10:31):
Yeah.
Michael (10:32):
Well, you think he continues after this little bunch of strips?
Harold (10:38):
Well, I don't think he's going to continue past the 90s.
That's my theory.
Michael (10:41):
No, no, that's a good theory.
But not knowing what's coming, is he become a regular?
Jimmy (10:48):
I don't remember much about good old Cormac.
He might show up now and again, but I think for the most part, the next character that I remember that becomes a really big part of the strip is Rira and his little friend in class.
Harold (11:02):
You know what I'd like to see?
I'd like to see some interaction between Cormac and Lydia, because he's not too old for her.
Jimmy (11:09):
That's right.
Michael (11:10):
Well, he's too short.
Harold (11:14):
He has a nice smile.
Jimmy (11:16):
The use of Zip-A-Tone on his jacket gives me 90s feel too.
Now, is that jangly Zip-A-Tone?
Harold (11:25):
Right?
Jimmy (11:26):
Because it sort of doesn't come to the edge, and it has little white spots.
Harold (11:30):
Yeah, that's approachable Zip-A-Tone.
Jimmy (11:32):
That's approachable Zip-A-Tone.
October 10th.
Cormac is visiting Charlie Brown's house, and the World War I flying ace has answered the door.
And he says, Hi, is this the residence of Sally Brown?
Will you give her this love note?
And he hands a little love note to the World War I flying ace.
And then the World War I flying ace grabs it and shoves it in his mouth, saying, sensing this could be a secret military message, the World War I flying ace quickly swallows it.
(12:03):
And then he slam goes back inside the house, leaving Cormac out there to say, Hey, what kind of place is this?
Harold (12:12):
That's right, Cormac.
What kind of place is this?
We've been trying to figure this out for four years.
Jimmy (12:20):
Yeah, I love it when some other poor sucker has to deal with the World War I flying ace or something.
Yeah, it's really great.
Harold (12:28):
And his hair looks even more unruly when he's watching Snoopy eat his message.
Jimmy (12:34):
Yeah, just a little light fluff in the lioness department, like it's shooting out in all directions.
Harold (12:40):
I mean, that's kind of a weird thing about his hair is, particularly in this shot, you see the outline of the head up until where the hair begins.
And then it's just kind of this open field of tumbleweed out the back.
Jimmy (12:54):
Yeah.
Harold (12:56):
It's like he's blowing his mind.
Jimmy (12:58):
I think it's definitely a piece, I think.
That's why we're seeing that a little.
All right.
There's a little difference between the top and the bottom there.
So yeah, no, it really does look like the back of his head's gone.
Yeah.
And that the second one and it really looks like Charlie Brown too.
I mean, he must have been able to feel that he was drawing Charlie Brown's face.
(13:19):
Right.
Michael (13:20):
I mean, I'm surprised with his cartooning skills, that he doesn't do much with features like Doonesbury has this long Pinocchio nose.
Schulz doesn't seem to do that.
They all seem to be variations on his standard face design.
Jimmy (13:41):
Yeah.
I mean, it has something, I think, to do with just the simplicity of the style, that he doesn't draw real character-looking type people, or there's nothing that's ever done that makes someone, or very rarely is someone drawn to look funny, like within the world, like no one would say.
Michael (14:02):
Yeah.
Who was that girl who Linus was in love with way back when?
She was funny looking.
Liz (14:08):
Truffles?
Michael (14:09):
Truffles.
Jimmy (14:10):
Truffles.
Harold (14:13):
Yeah, that was a switch.
Jimmy (14:15):
I liked truffles.
But yeah, he rarely, rarely does that.
November 8th, it's a Sunday, and Charlie Brown and Sally are sitting at a table eating some plates of food, and they're both laughing their heads off.
And the next panel, Charlie Brown's at the psychiatric booth because, of course, and he says to Lucy, it's a little hard to explain.
(14:40):
I like to laugh.
And then Lucy says to him, what's wrong with that?
And then he continues talking, saying, sometimes my sister and I tell jokes while we're eating, but if grandma's around, she kind of doesn't like it.
She always says, laugh before supper, cry before bed.
Lucy's taking this all in, and Charlie Brown asks, what do you think I should do?
(15:01):
To which Lucy replies, don't eat supper, send out for pizza.
Michael (15:06):
Kind of gold lady advice is that.
I've never heard that.
Harold (15:09):
Now, can you imagine growing up in Minnesota?
I mean, I think of like the Garrison Keillor world of older adults, that really would kind of put a damper on things, if that was the wisdom being passed on by your elders.
Jimmy (15:28):
Well, you know, I mean, what were their, what would be like Charles Schulz's grandmother's like funny stories?
Like that one time they shared a bean?
Like, you know, they probably weren't yucking it up.
The, the Nordic folk in the prairies of the Midwest.
Harold (15:46):
You get a sense of people who had endured a lot of hardship and you don't get your hopes up too much about things or it's going to tear you down.
I mean, and there is that Stoic kind of feel to, to some of the culture up there.
Jimmy (16:03):
Oh yeah.
Well, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
Cause it's not even like, cause I, all right.
Laugh before supper could be like, hey, if you goof around while you're working, right?
Before supper or whatever, but then you could say, well, things will be bad the next day cause you'll have more work to do or, but you'll cry before dinner or whatever, before bed rather, you know, I mean, yeah, it will turn tragic at the end of the day.
Harold (16:26):
Yeah.
Jimmy (16:27):
Well, I like Lucy's advice.
Send out for pizza.
That's always good advice.
You can't go wrong with a pizza.
Harold (16:32):
Oh, but pizza is supper.
Jimmy (16:35):
Well, yeah, but maybe he say, maybe she's saying don't eat supper with the family.
Harold (16:40):
With the family.
Yeah, right.
Jimmy (16:41):
Yeah.
You and Sally go have a pizza someplace.
Harold (16:44):
Yeah.
Laugh over some pepperoni and you'll avoid the misery.
Jimmy (16:51):
Yeah, I do think it's interesting when Schulz pulls out some of that stuff that might be from the deep dark past of the adults around him when he was a kid.
There's not that much.
Harold (17:06):
No, and given that we know that Schulz did have this propensity to love silliness.
Yeah.
That would have really been looked down upon in parts of the culture he grew up in.
He always seems to restrain himself a little, but that's the sense you get.
(17:26):
There is something in this strip that is often restrained.
Even though we go to these flights of fancy, there is a sense of restraint in it, which in some way seems to give some of the craziest, goofiest stuff a dignity that I think it's a wonderful combination.
(17:47):
And it's like, for me, it builds a respect for the characters and the strip and the creator.
There's a dignity in all of the insanity that he's doing with Snoopy and everything that gives it a weight that you wouldn't normally see in a strip that would be so wildly creative.
(18:09):
I mean, I think of Bloom County, there's this off-handed nature to it where it's almost discounting itself.
If you know what I mean.
Jimmy (18:18):
Yeah.
Harold (18:18):
And Schulz is not letting go of this sense of dignity in the characters, even though they might be doing some of the goofiest things.
And I think that's part of the success of the strip.
Well, all right.
Jimmy (18:34):
So here's a thought.
Especially, maybe less so today because of the Internet.
But certainly, during Schulz's heyday, when we were starting out, all that sort of stuff, were you guys, when you're thinking about, you're doing this comic, even if you weren't necessarily thinking of, my least favorite phrase, the target audience, I think you would be thinking about the people that you knew around you as possible readers.
(19:04):
At least I was, right?
I knew I was going to have to sell my first comic when I was 15 in Gerardville.
That was the only place to sell it.
So I sort of had to talk in their language.
Even if you're making fun of it in some level, which I really wasn't in those early years ago, but you still have to, if you're parroting it or whatever, you still have to sort of talk in the language of the people that are around you.
(19:27):
I don't think that happens now as much because people think of the internet as their first and possibly only audience.
Harold (19:36):
Well, I mean, that is doing what you're saying.
It's just you're expecting an internet type of audience, which is, I mean, there's a lot of things you can put on to that, that, you know, it's judgmental, it's fickle, it likes to laugh, it likes things that are trivial.
And so you see a lot of people, and I don't know if it's because they're consciously making it for that audience or if that's just where they're coming from, and the ones that seem to be in line with the tone of where the people on the internet are, that those are the ones who are successful.
(20:11):
But I guess I'm sure there are people who are calibrating what they do and they see what people respond to.
I mean, that's the amazing thing about the internet is you'll instantly get some feedback as to which thing made the greatest impact, and then you double down on that if that's what you're after, is that audience.
Jimmy (20:26):
And that ultimately, you would think, though, that that, well, I mean, that does, you know, make everything, it washes it out, makes it a little bit bland, right?
I mean, that everything sort of has to follow the internet's village, the internet village's taste.
Well, Michael, when you were starting out Strange Attractors, you and Mark, hey, by the way, how's that going, working on that series after all this time?
Michael (20:51):
Yeah, I had a little problem with the old Apple Pencil, which renders me absolutely useless.
Jimmy (20:58):
Oh, no.
Michael (20:59):
Because I ordered a new one and I got it, and apparently, it doesn't work on my old one.
Jimmy (21:08):
Oh, you got to get the Apple Pencil too.
Michael (21:10):
Yeah.
So basically, I've been at a commission for, like, two weeks.
Jimmy (21:13):
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Well, thinking back to your original start, you were at a pretty close-knit group of people that were into this type of thing, right?
Your D&D group were playing together for years.
Was that group of friends, were you thinking about them when you wrote it?
Michael (21:30):
No, not really.
I mean, I was collaborating with Mark, who was part of that group.
But no, I mean, you and I had the same, pretty much same experience because our audience was the other folks doing black and white self-published comics.
Jimmy (21:48):
Yeah.
Michael (21:48):
Yeah.
Either the artists all bought the comics from their friends, or there was a small group who only liked this weird little offshoot of independent comics.
Yeah.
So I wasn't looking for a bigger audience because I knew that was impossible.
But I thought, for me, the jackpot was somebody you respect liking your stuff.
(22:17):
I mean, that was all I was hoping for.
Jimmy (22:21):
You certainly got that.
Michael (22:22):
That and breaking even.
Yeah.
Jimmy (22:24):
Breaking even.
Oh yeah.
That's really all you need, those two things in your mind.
Yeah.
I feel like in my comic, my Dumbest Ideas book, I did the story where I was going to do a fantasy story in Star-Lord, and then my friend told me not to because it's a bad idea.
That really would have ended it for me.
(22:45):
I got so much validation from my friends and from the local news media and the stores let me put the book in.
Because it was about them.
If I would have said, here's Star-Lord about this guy with mental powers on a different planet, they would have been like, they wouldn't even have recognized it as something that they should encourage with me, I don't think.
Harold (23:07):
Wow, that's really interesting.
And on this theme of the nature of art where there's something in it that there's a gravitas to it or there's a respect for the characters.
It doesn't feel entirely frivolous.
That's definitely in both of your guys' work.
(23:28):
I mean, I see that you give your characters real respect.
And I think that's something that it works incredibly well if you can do it well.
And in the fact, Jimmy, that you were doing stuff that was tied into a space and a life that you were living at the time.
(23:53):
Yeah, that can be super powerful.
Yeah, I'm just mulling all this over as we're talking, but there's something really special about that type of art.
And, you know, there's a lot of art where you feel like the characters are almost puppets or...
Jimmy (24:11):
Yeah...
Harold (24:12):
.
strong men, for lack of a better term.
And they're being manipulated around so that someone can have some fun, you know?
Jimmy (24:19):
Yeah, or not have fun.
Because sometimes it doesn't even feel like they're having fun, the creators, you know?
Harold (24:24):
Yeah, or they're venting on something, or they're just being...
Or they are just being, like, completely frivolous.
Right.
I guess, yeah, I get...
I'm just...
it's just dawning on me that I really...
I'm fascinated by the stuff that can be light, but also have some dignity and respect for the characters.
That's a really powerful, wonderful combination.
Jimmy (24:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Schulz certainly is a master of that, because you can tell that he loves these characters, even the ones that are...
even the Cormacs of the world, you know?
They're all unique and special.
How about we take a break, come back, read the mail, and hit some more strips?
Harold (25:08):
Sure.
That's great.
Liz (25:10):
Hi, everyone.
You've heard us rave about the Estabrook Radio 914, and one episode would be complete without mention of the Fab Four.
Now you can wear our obsessions proudly with Unpacking Peanuts t-shirts.
We have a Be of Good Cheer pen nib design, along with the four of us crossing Abbey Road, and of course, Michael, Jimmy, and Harold at the thinking wall.
(25:34):
Collect them all, trade them with your friends.
Order your t-shirts today at unpackingpeanuts.com/store.
Jimmy (25:43):
And we're back.
All right, Liz, I'm hanging out in the mailbox.
Do we got anything?
Liz (25:47):
We do.
We got a couple of things.
First, from super listener John Marullo, who writes, Hey everyone, there was a rhetorical question asked when trying to account for the popularity of Blondie among teenagers in 1992.
How many Blondie TV series were there?
It was actually attempted three times.
(26:09):
The teens of 92 may have seen the 1987 animated special, Blondie and Dagwood, which featured Loni Anderson as the voice of Blondie.
There were two live action series much earlier, neither of which saw a second season.
The first aired in 57 and featured Arthur Lake reprising his role as Dagwood from the Penny Singleton movies.
(26:34):
Pamela Britton, who was Lorelai Brown in My Favorite Martian, played Blondie.
It was tried again in 1968.
The supporting cast is more notable.
Mr.
Dithers was played by the wonderful Jim Backus.
Of interest to listeners of this podcast, playing Alexander and Cookie, were Peter Robbins and Pamela Ferdin, who voiced Charlie Brown and Lucy respectively in animation.
(27:00):
This version lasted only 13 episodes and is considered a dismal failure, and clips of it are very hard to find.
He concludes with, a more reasonable explanation for Blondie's popularity may be that, like Peanuts, it was often featured on the front page of Sunday Comics sections.
Thank you again for the best podcast in the known universe.
Michael (27:25):
Oh, I have an alternate explanation.
Liz (27:28):
What's that?
Michael (27:29):
Maybe it was good.
I don't remember.
I read it.
Jimmy (27:34):
Yeah.
Well, it was a good-looking strip.
Who was doing it by that?
Was it Stan Drake drawing?
Michael (27:40):
Oh.
Jimmy (27:41):
Eventually, Stan-
Michael (27:42):
Was it in Cherk?
Jimmy (27:43):
No, not by the eighties.
Harold (27:45):
Not by that, but let's see.
Was there a son who worked on it?
There was a second Young?
Yeah.
Was it Drake and Young?
Jimmy (27:56):
Yeah, Stan Drake.
Harold (27:56):
Was it Stan Drake and Young?
Jimmy (27:58):
Yeah, Stan Drake, who is a famous photo-realist, cartoonist who did The Heart of Juliet Jones, which has the most beautiful realistic drawing like in the world.
I mean, it's just so gorgeous.
And then he went and did Blondie, and it's a completely different style, and he nails that too.
Harold (28:16):
Yeah, it was a good-looking strip.
It was really professionally done, and I remember my newspaper had Blondie at the top.
And Peanuts at the bottom on the front page.
It was very highly regarded and was very prominent in those Sunday sections.
(28:37):
And yeah, it was suburban life, and I don't think it seemed out of line with, say, my experiences as a kid.
And yeah, and I occasionally would get the Blondie comic book, which ran from, I think, probably the 40s into at least the 70s.
(28:57):
And then those Penny Singleton movies, like you were saying, Jimmy, you were watching them.
That was a staple on TV stations on Sunday, around noon.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it was like the Shirley Temple movies and the Blondie movies and the Bowery Boys movies.
If you were in a certain area, they would often rotate those films because there were so many in the series, and they would just be playing every single weekend.
(29:20):
And even though they were so old, millions of people saw those.
Jimmy (29:24):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Watch them with my Nana.
You know, a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that Shout Factory has YouTube channels for like so many of their properties.
I was watching The Prisoner, that BBC show recently on it.
And it's fun watching, even they're live, they're just streamed, you and 15 other people watching them.
But they had a really old movie series on there that I don't think people even realize is how much of an influence on Amelia it was.
(29:52):
That I didn't even think about it really in 30 years, but the little rascals.
And I mean, now times have changed in many ways.
So you're gonna run into things that are not acceptable to modern sensibilities.
But boy, were they funny.
I mean, they were inventive.
They did like really clever things with split screens and puppetry, all kinds of stuff.
(30:16):
Really, really funny.
Harold (30:17):
They have their own strange pacing.
You know, a lot of the stuff, the Hal Roach films, they have this long gaps of silence between lines and stuff, while you have that wonderful music, that library music that they wrote for themselves.
And it's just like, you're like in this dream world when you're watching them.
And it's, it's wow.
Jimmy (30:38):
Yeah, very much.
Harold (30:40):
But yeah, I agree.
Blondie is a, was a very well done strip.
It was super professionally done.
And the characters, definitely Dagwood is a very strong character.
And I love looking at the dogs.
Jimmy (30:54):
A lot of people probably don't remember.
They started, Blondie was a flapper.
And the thing was, Dagwood was then the heir to a millionaire's fortune, and he was going to lose his money if he married Blondie.
But he did.
And then this strip just became an entirely different strip over time.
Harold (31:16):
Yeah.
And this is one example.
They say never marry characters in a strip if they weren't, and they started and Blondie is a great exception to that rule.
Michael (31:24):
Yeah.
Jimmy (31:26):
All right.
Do we got anything else?
Liz (31:27):
We do.
We got an email from Rochelle, who writes, I've been listening to the podcast for a couple of months now, I'm really enjoying it.
But today I realized as everyone was being introduced, everyone gets a nice long introduction, except Liz.
Jimmy (31:44):
That's true.
Liz (31:46):
Can we hear a little bit about Liz too, even if it's not comic related?
Jimmy (31:50):
All right.
Liz (31:51):
Such an important part of the podcast, and I don't like her being left out.
Jimmy (31:56):
Thanks for pointing that out to us.
I think you're 100% right.
I am happy to do right now a little impromptu interview.
So, Liz.
Liz (32:05):
Well, wait a second.
I took the opportunity to write one for you.
Jimmy (32:10):
That's fantastic.
Lay it on us.
Liz (32:14):
She's a singer and an audio engineer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast.
Jimmy (32:20):
Perfect.
Liz (32:22):
She's a former productivity coach and creator of the never published comic Hippi, the Mad Mod Fashion Fanatic.
It's Liz Sumner.
Jimmy (32:31):
Wait, I just learned something.
First off, we will use that now.
But secondly, what is Hippi?
Liz (32:39):
When I was in seventh grade, I had a crush on a guy named Jeff Stryker.
Jimmy (32:46):
Wait, what was his name?
Liz (32:48):
Jeff Stryker.
Jimmy (32:49):
It was not Jeff Stryker.
Are you kidding me?
Like, oh my God, he's like a helicopter pilot in an unpicked up 80s action pilot.
Liz (32:59):
Actually, he was an NPR commentator or an NPR producer, and was on the air for a long time.
Anyhow, but I wrote this comic of Hippi and her pals, Modi and Go Go, and it was a complete ripoff of Millie the model.
Jimmy (33:15):
Perfect.
Liz (33:17):
I had something like eight or ten different issues of it.
Jimmy (33:22):
Oh my God.
Liz (33:24):
It was more a story rather.
I had horrible stick figure drawings, and Michael thinks it would, well, you give your opinion.
Michael (33:35):
I don't know if it qualifies as an actual comic, but it was definitely a zine.
Harold (33:40):
Oh, all right.
Michael (33:42):
Cool.
Liz (33:42):
But Jef was Jaguar Jef, and he was in the band called The Castaways with his drummer, Alex.
It was another one of my classmates.
I was very fond of Hippi.
Jimmy (33:58):
That's amazing.
Well, we need to kickstart a revival.
That's fantastic.
Thank you for writing in and asking this, because as we pointed out in the past, but it cannot be pointed out too often, we would not have a podcast without Liz at all.
Like none.
We wouldn't have a bad podcast.
(34:19):
We would have no podcast.
We would have four Lost episodes that, they're much like if you've seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, and they take the top off the arc and everyone's face melts.
If you heard those episodes, that's what would happen to you.
That's why I hid them from you.
We're very grateful to have Liz.
Harold (34:38):
Definitely.
Liz (34:39):
That's it for the mail.
Oh, except.
Jimmy (34:41):
We got a package from good old Sarah Wilson.
Now, I put out the call if anybody had access to any kind of Olaf merch to get in touch with us, and she won because she figured out how to do it without me sending anything to Japan.
If you want to know one thing about me that's not in the introduction, I'm super lazy.
(35:07):
Oh, and having to go to the, actually, I'm going to ask Michael about this, having to get me to go to the post office is a near impossibility.
But Sarah somehow figured it out, and so we got a package from her today, and I'm going to open it live on air, right?
Liz (35:23):
That was her request.
Jimmy (35:24):
All right.
Okay.
So here we go.
Let's open this up.
Harold (35:26):
Our first unboxing podcast.
Jimmy (35:29):
I hope you can hear that.
Hold on.
You're going to get a good sound effect.
All right.
Liz (35:37):
Careful with that box cutter.
Jimmy (35:39):
Oh, that was raw.
Liz (35:39):
You need your fingers.
Jimmy (35:40):
That was just my raw hands, bare hands.
Harold (35:43):
Wow.
Jimmy (35:44):
All right.
We have an Olaf shirt.
Harold (35:49):
No.
Jimmy (35:50):
Peanuts Japan, Olaf with the wave, the famous wave behind him in a kimono.
It is amazing.
I love it.
Liz (36:02):
You have to take pictures so we can share them.
Jimmy (36:07):
And a copy of her book, Protons and Fleurons.
Michael (36:11):
Oh, boy.
Harold (36:12):
So cool.
Jimmy (36:13):
Twenty-Two Elements of Fiction, a hardcover edition.
Oh, and hang on.
We got a little card in there.
Oh, very cute little card with a snail on it.
From your friend, fan, and Fleuron fancier in Japan, with great appreciation for Unpacking Peanuts, Sarah.
Oh, thank you, Sarah.
I can't.
And this is her book, which is...
(36:33):
So if you want to check it out, it is Protons and Fleurons, F-L-E-U-R-O-N-S, by Sarah Hinlicky Wilson.
Liz (36:40):
I think it's Doctor Sarah Hinlicky.
Jimmy (36:42):
Doctor.
Well, you buried the lead there, Sarah.
It's not on your cover.
That's very cool, though.
Oh, thank you so much.
And Olaf's absolutely adorable.
We'll send a picture via social media or wherever Liz will put it up, but yes.
Liz (36:56):
And I'll ask Sarah for a link to so people can take a look at her book.
Jimmy (37:00):
Yeah.
Yeah, please.
Please do.
I'm going to read it.
I'm going to start reading it tonight.
Twenty-Two Elements of Fiction.
Oh, it's like a little short story collection.
Oh, and they're all based on elements.
Huh.
That's really cool.
All right.
Very cool.
Thank you, Sarah.
So if you want to get in touch with us, well, there's a couple of ways you could do it.
(37:21):
The first thing we'd love for you to do is go over to our website, unpackingpeanuts.com, and there you can sign up for the great Peanuts reread.
That'll get you one email a month from us, letting you know to the best of our ability what we're going to be covering on upcoming episodes of the podcast.
You can also just send us an email, UnpackingPeanuts at gmail.com, and you can follow us on social media, but I'll give you that rundown at the end.
(37:47):
So, oh, and as always, we don't have anything this week, but you can leave a voicemail or just send a text message to 717-219-4162.
That's the Unpacking Peanuts hotline.
And we'd love to hear from you because when I don't hear, I worry.
All right, guys.
So how about we go back to the strips?
Harold (38:06):
Sure.
Jimmy (38:07):
All right.
We've got a pretty dark Sunday here coming up, November 22nd.
And we start off with a little symbolic panel where we see Woodstock as a turkey with his tail feathers fully on display.
But Woodstock's stoic expression unchanged.
And now we cut to Snoopy, who's telling the old Bible story.
(38:28):
So Isaac was saved and he's telling this to Woodstock.
And then he says to Woodstock, then guess what happened?
Abraham turned around and saw this poor ram that had his horn caught in a thicket.
Did he set it free?
Of course not.
He offered it up as a burnt offering.
Can you imagine that?
He killed it.
This is freaking Woodstock out.
(38:48):
And then Charlie Brown comes in and says, Hey Snoopy, we're invited over to grandma's house for Thanksgiving dinner.
And then Snoopy says to Woodstock, And you know what they're going to eat?
Harold (38:57):
A bird.
Jimmy (38:58):
And then they, Snoopy and Woodstock both turn to Charlie Brown and go blah.
And then Charlie Brown heads back to the house where Sally greets him and he says, He's not coming along.
And then Charlie Brown says, Don't ask me why.
I never know what he's thinking.
Michael (39:13):
So doesn't Snoopy realize what's in his dinner?
Jimmy (39:16):
That's what I just wanted to ask.
That's exactly my question.
What do you think's in your dog food, Snoopy?
Ignorance is bliss.
Look, this is one of two weird things that happen at the end of holiday specials.
At the end of Charlie Brown Thanksgiving, Woodstock definitely eats the turkey, which is really creepy.
(39:39):
Yeah.
And also, of course, the famous murder at the end of Rudolph.
Those are the two darkest moments in holiday specials.
Yeah, so that's really all I had to say about that, is I wanted to know what Snoopy thought he was eating.
Do you think he doesn't know?
I guess, well, how would he know?
He doesn't want to know?
Harold (39:59):
He doesn't want to know.
Jimmy (40:00):
Very strange, very strange.
I love Woodstock in this.
I love how he looks nervous with the most minor edition of parentheses and like some swept, what do you call them?
Drops, that's the word.
Harold (40:13):
Yeah, what's the Mort Walker name for this?
Jimmy (40:15):
Dulaps, right?
Harold (40:16):
He made up all the names.
Jimmy (40:17):
Yeah.
Do you think when he named all those things, he thought, yeah, these are gonna catch on?
Harold (40:22):
I think he was trying, he had a pretty good success with get people using it.
I saw it.
I've seen it pop up in news articles and stuff years later.
Jimmy (40:30):
You know, it is.
Liz (40:30):
I put it in the obscurity.
Harold (40:31):
Was it Brolics?
Jimmy (40:32):
There you go.
Well, then you've made, man, if you make it to the peanuts and obscurities.
But you know, like, it is one of the problems with comics.
There's not much of, you know, I mean, there's not really that much comics theory.
You have understanding comics.
So you don't, when you don't have comics theory, you don't have a lot of terms.
(40:54):
It's hard to express some things about comics.
Michael (40:57):
Do you constantly run into people who talk about speech bubbles?
Jimmy (41:00):
Oh, God, as opposed to word balloons?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's more common now, which I can't stand.
Michael (41:09):
But you can't correct them because that's too snobby.
Jimmy (41:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michael (41:12):
Right.
Jimmy (41:13):
No one wants to talk to the guy that goes, actually, it's the word balloons.
Well, here's something that's really weird that everybody says, including editors who are much younger than me.
I really like your paneling.
I'm like, thanks.
It's oak.
What are you talking about my paneling?
They mean my layouts, but paneling is what they're calling the arrangement of panels on a comics page.
Harold (41:38):
Oh, I thought that's when you're like on What's My Line.
Jimmy (41:41):
It could be that too.
If you're on What's My Line in my studio with my oak paneling, laying out a comic, then you got all three.
That's the trifecta of paneling.
November 23rd.
Linus is sitting in classic thumb and blanket position when something catches his attention off panel.
(42:01):
So he throws his blanket up in the air, and as it gently floats to the ground, Snoopy comes flashing by trying to snatch it out of Linus' grasp.
But Linus, having been one step ahead of him, has it in the air, and then it gently floats back down, and Linus resumes his thumb and blanket position.
Michael (42:22):
Nice.
Another six-paneler.
Jimmy (42:24):
Yeah.
Harold (42:25):
Yeah.
Michael (42:26):
Yeah, this could have worked as four, but...
Jimmy (42:30):
Yeah.
Michael (42:30):
It didn't hurt to add another couple.
Jimmy (42:33):
Yeah, it could have worked.
You could have done the first one, the third one, the fourth one, and the last one.
Yeah.
Or the fifth and the last, I guess, you know?
Yeah.
It does work, because a lot of times, when you try something like this, it does give the feeling of slow motion, so much as it gives the feeling of the blanket.
(42:57):
Like, the object in motion is actually moving much slower.
But I think because it's a blanket, and it feels light and could drift down, I think this really works well.
Harold (43:09):
I think of Garfield without Garfield, you'd use Snoopy, Peanuts without Snoopy.
Jimmy (43:13):
Yeah, you could definitely just have one.
Harold (43:15):
The non-sequitur strips.
Jimmy (43:19):
It's interesting that he decides to zip-atone the blanket at this stage, because that feels like it's changing the color of the blanket.
December 12th, and it's a panoramic strip.
We got a snowman out there with gloves on and a baseball cap sideways.
Rerun?
Michael (43:38):
I don't know.
I would think so, but how can you tell?
Jimmy (43:42):
Rerun and or Linus are sitting in the snow next to the snowman and says, If a person were lost in a blizzard, how long could he last sucking the juice from a mitten?
Michael (43:55):
What flavor was that?
What were the ingredients?
It's really good, but was I drinking like red dye number three or something?
Maybe.
I would explain a lot.
Harold (44:12):
I remember this just took me back to childhood, and I hadn't thought of this.
But yeah, you would have a mitten, and you would be out in the cold.
I grew up in Rochester, New York until I was 11.
I don't know why, but you would have caked snow on the mitten.
(44:33):
The fibers have captured this.
I don't know why, but I remember the flavor of sucking on the snow from the mitten, but then it's also got all the nastiness that was in the mitten.
Jimmy (44:48):
Yeah, that's seasoning.
Harold (44:49):
But there's a certain flavor to it, right?
Jimmy (44:54):
December 15th, Spike is out in the desert contemplating the holidays, and he says to himself, Christmas is coming, I should start doing my shopping.
Last year, I exchanged gifts with a rock.
I think he liked what I brought him.
And then we see the rock in panel three, and Spike turns to him and says, he's still wearing it.
And we see the rock is wearing the gift Spike got him, which is a little baseball cap.
Harold (45:20):
Spike seems very pleased.
Jimmy (45:21):
Also looks like Charlie Brown's head.
Harold (45:27):
Yeah, so I'm happy to see Spike is finding some joys in his life with the rocks and the cacti.
Jimmy (45:34):
Yeah, I think Spike is making it work out there, you know?
I think a lot of people would crack up, but for whatever reason, Spike is able to hang in there.
Harold (45:43):
Yeah, he finds his happiness where he can.
And speaking of that, why don't we do the Anger and Happiness Index for the year?
Jimmy (45:52):
Let's do it.
Harold (45:55):
Okay, so again, for those of you who are joining us for the first time, I go through the year's strips.
Jimmy (46:01):
First off, you're a little late.
Liz (46:02):
What?
Jimmy (46:04):
If you're joining us for the first time.
Harold (46:07):
Well, yes.
Jimmy (46:08):
You're welcome though.
You're welcome, of course.
Harold (46:10):
Absolutely.
So if you have not heard this before, every year I go through the strips and I count the number of strips that have at least one character showing anger or happiness in the strips.
And then I follow it year by year, trying to see if there are any trends that might give us any clues to where Schulz was in the process of making Peanuts.
(46:33):
And where we are in 1991, we had a shocker where the anger went from 59 strips to 107.
And while happiness held pretty steady, it went from 90 to 89.
So do you think that was just an anomaly that had all these angry strips in 91?
(46:55):
Or do you think that might be a trend that's continuing?
Jimmy (46:58):
No, I think he's going down.
I think he was just having a really grumpy year.
So I think we're going to be closer to that, the previous number.
Harold (47:06):
Which was actually unusually low.
So he has kind of strangely had the two side by side.
Jimmy (47:12):
What do you think, Michael?
Why don't you pick happiness?
I think happiness is up or down.
Michael (47:17):
I think it's holding even.
I think they're both, the numbers are going to be pretty even too.
Harold (47:21):
I do too.
Jimmy (47:22):
That's what I think.
Harold (47:23):
Yeah.
We went from 107.91 for the anger to 87.
So it is back down to a more normal level.
Happiness has been very gradually declining in 89 from 97 to 1990.
There were 90 and 91.
There were 89 and 92.
There are 84.
So that's holding pretty steady, but it was kind of a slow, gradual line.
(47:48):
So yeah, I don't know what happened in 1991 or if it was just pure coincidence that he had this.
There were a lot of different things that created the anger this year coming from a lot of different characters.
It's interesting that he's not all one character.
(48:09):
Lucy definitely is giving some bad vibes out there this year toward Linus and all of that.
But yeah, not quite as crazy as it was last year.
Jimmy (48:22):
All right.
Thank you for that, Harold.
All right.
So that brings us to the end of another fabulous year, a great year in peanuts and pop culture in general, 1992.
So we are going to just I'm going to need from my friends there, MVPs and Strip of the Year.
But before we get there, I just want to once again remind you, we would love to hear from you.
(48:46):
So if you want to drop us an email, unpackingpeanuts at gmail.com, you could call or text the hotline 717-219-4162.
And of course, you can follow us on Instagram and threads where we're at Unpack Peanuts and Facebook, Blue Sky and YouTube where we're at Unpacking Peanuts.
And again, we'd love to hear from you because when I don't hear, I worry.
(49:10):
So with all that said, guys, how about you give me your MVPs and your picks for Strip of the Year.
Michael, why don't you go first?
Michael (49:21):
Okay.
As is traditional, I am picking a Lydia Strip for Strip of the Year.
And she might only had one this year, maybe two.
But anyway, June 7th, where she foolishly asked Linus if he's ever written a love note.
Jimmy (49:43):
Oh, that's a good one.
Michael (49:44):
And it rebounds on her.
And she's humiliated.
Jimmy (49:51):
She finally gets a little of her own medicine there.
Michael (49:54):
Yeah.
And most valuable peanut again, Sally.
I'm enjoying her nihilism or is it nihilism?
Should we settle this once and for all?
Or does it not matter?
Jimmy (50:10):
I always said nihilism.
Michael (50:13):
Okay.
Jimmy (50:13):
But I don't think that's right.
So, sorry, I cannot be of help, I guess.
Michael (50:19):
Okay.
In any case, Sally's the one who makes me laugh.
And so I will keep giving her MVPs as long as she keeps doing that.
Jimmy (50:29):
All right.
Well, Sally is sweeping your polls and your heart.
Harold, how about you?
Harold (50:35):
Well, this is a very personal pick for me.
February 4th.
I really do like this strip.
I had mentioned in part one this year that there was a strip up on the refrigerator of my in-laws depicting Lucy and Linus as my wife Diane and me, where she's being a little hard on Linus early, early at breakfast time and Linus replies at the end of her rant, good morning.
(51:08):
That's just a, it's a great strip and I have fond memories of that being up on the fridge for years.
So we both laughed at that when we saw it.
And for my VIP, I'm going to give it to Cormac.
He's bringing us into the 90s.
It was fun to see him.
I don't know if we'll ever see him again.
(51:28):
So I want to give him a shout out while we can.
Jimmy (51:31):
All right, well, I'm going to agree with Harold there.
I was going to pick good old Cormac anyway, just because he's rocking that 90s hair, which I love.
And for my strip, I'm going to go, you know what, I'm going to go with October 1st, We Live in Interesting Times.
Michael (51:50):
Really?
Jimmy (51:50):
Yeah, I think that'll be a good title for the episode too.
I always like to find something that'd be a good title for the episode.
Michael (51:55):
Okay.
Jimmy (51:56):
And yeah, and that's it.
Okay.
So we did it guys, another year.
Michael (52:01):
Yay.
Jimmy (52:02):
All right.
So you characters out there, come back next week where we'll either be doing another year or something special.
I don't remember what the schedule is, but we'll be here nevertheless.
And we would love for you to be here too.
So until then for Michael, Harold, and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
Michael (52:21):
Yes, be of good cheer.
Liz (52:23):
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, and Harold Buchholz.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
(52:44):
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.
Michael (52:51):
Yay.
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.
Jimmy (00:18):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the show.
This is Unpacking Peanuts, and today we're wrapping up 1992.
I'll be your host for the proceedings.
My name is Jimmy Gownley.
I'm also a cartoonist.
I did things like Amelia Rules, Seven Greases Not to Grow Up, and The Dumbest Idea Ever.
You can read my new comic, Tanner Rocks, over at gvillecomics.substack.com.
Joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts, and fellow cartoonists.
(00:41):
He's a playwright and a composer both for the band Complicated People as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original Comic Book Price Guide, the original editor for Amelia Rule, and the creator of such great strips as The Gathering of Spells, Tangled River, and the currently being completed, Strange Attractors, Michael Cohen.
Michael (01:00):
Say hey.
Jimmy (01:01):
And he's the executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics, and the current creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beasts, it's Harold Buchholz.
Harold (01:11):
Hello.
Jimmy (01:12):
All right, guys, 1992, wrapping it up.
Does anyone have anything by way of prelude or should we just get right to the good old strips?
Harold (01:21):
Yeah, we can go right in.
Michael (01:22):
Do it.
Jimmy (01:23):
September 6th, 1992, Charlie Brown's sleeping in his comfy looking bed and his sister comes into the bedroom to wake him up gently, we assume, in the first two panels.
But then panel three, Sally just starts screaming, school starts tomorrow.
Charlie Brown sent flying.
He lands on the floor.
Good grief.
(01:44):
Sally continues yelling, get all your school clothes ready.
Charlie Brown puts on his classic striped shirt and then sits down at the breakfast table and Sally's still screaming, eat a good breakfast.
School starts tomorrow.
Get those books ready.
Sharpen those pencils.
Charlie Brown's tumbling head over heels and then Sally goes back to bed.
(02:07):
Charlie Brown finds her there and asks, what are you doing back in bed?
School starts tomorrow, to which Sally replies, who cares?
Michael (02:17):
So someone sent me an article which kind of analyzed the Peanuts characters, kind of summarized them, and he called Sally a nihilist.
Jimmy (02:29):
Okay.
Michael (02:30):
Would you agree with that assessment?
Jimmy (02:32):
No.
Michael (02:34):
No?
Jimmy (02:34):
No, I don't think she's a nihilist, no.
A nihilist sees no value in anything.
Michael (02:40):
Well, who cares, kind of summing that up?
Jimmy (02:44):
Well, she sees no value in other people's things, but she sees value in Linus, for example.
Michael (02:50):
Yeah, that's true.
Jimmy (02:51):
You know?
Is there anything else?
What else is Sally pro?
Television?
Michael (02:56):
TV.
TV.
Even though she yells at it and insults it.
Jimmy (03:00):
So she's going to be an executive someday, that'll be good.
Michael (03:03):
Yeah.
Jimmy (03:05):
Oh, by the way, I just have to say this.
So I went to see my lovely daughter, Anna, in a play at her school.
And it was a student-written play.
And she played the role of a disgruntled science fiction writer on a panel at a Comic Con.
Michael (03:22):
Really?
Jimmy (03:23):
Yes.
And she did not write this play.
But I've never seen myself portrayed.
I felt so seen.
There was a line she delivered.
She goes, if you think I'm going to work with that idiot again, you're more delusional than he is.
And I just sank down in my seat.
Michael (03:47):
But by no stretch would you be called a science fiction.
Jimmy (03:50):
That's true.
That was the part that was fictional.
But yeah, it was on the nose.
October 1st, Marcie and Peppermint Patty are sitting in their desks.
And Peppermint Patty says, I got a D-minus in our spelling test.
I got a D-minus in our math test.
(04:10):
And I got a D-minus in our Spanish test.
And Marcie says to her, what do you think that means, sir?
Which Peppermint Patty says, we live in interesting times.
Michael (04:21):
The old Chinese curse.
Jimmy (04:26):
Now, would you have said in a math test or on a math test?
I would have said on.
Michael (04:32):
Definitely on.
Jimmy (04:33):
Yeah.
Right.
Harold (04:34):
Yeah.
Jimmy (04:35):
Yeah.
I don't know if that's just unique to Schulz's childhood or something or just that he got it wrong.
Harold (04:41):
Yeah.
Maybe maybe that's a Minnesota ism.
It's like standing in line or online.
Jimmy (04:47):
Online, right?
Harold (04:48):
Online is a New York thing and I always say in line.
Jimmy (04:53):
You're in New York, Harold, for God's sake.
Liz (04:57):
It makes me feel sorry for all the people who have to learn prepositions in English.
Right.
Jimmy (05:05):
Could you guys recite the prepositions right now if you had to?
Harold (05:08):
Nope.
Jimmy (05:09):
Catholic school, baby.
I'll do that on my deathbed.
I won't know my name, but on about above the cross, after, against, among, around, I won't do them all for you, but yes.
Liz (05:17):
Yeah.
I can do the Kings and Queens of England since 1066.
Jimmy (05:21):
Wow.
Michael (05:21):
Wow.
You've done this before.
Liz (05:24):
I probably have.
Jimmy (05:25):
On the podcast?
Michael (05:27):
I think so.
She does it at least once a day.
Liz (05:30):
Everywhere.
Trotted out at cocktail parties.
Michael (05:35):
It is impressive.
Jimmy (05:36):
We also had to learn the alphabet backwards.
That was another weird thing.
Michael (05:40):
What?
Brain would blow up.
Jimmy (05:42):
Z-Y-X-W-V-U-T-S-R-Q-P-O-N-M-L-K-J-I-H-G-F-E-D-C-B-A.
Liz (05:48):
That would be good if you got stopped for drinking.
Jimmy (05:51):
I'm waiting.
So I don't drink, but I drive badly just hoping to get pulled over.
Harold (06:01):
Well, my dad told me that somehow when he learned, I don't know how this worked, but he didn't know the order of the alphabet.
He knew all the letters until he was like later on.
I think he had to use a dictionary like in junior high or something.
He's like, oh, wow.
Jimmy (06:18):
That is so weird.
Harold (06:20):
Isn't that strange?
Jimmy (06:22):
I don't even know how you would do that.
Harold (06:24):
I don't either.
Because I thought every school had the A, B, C, D, E, F, G all along the top of the board or whatever.
Jimmy (06:31):
Maybe he went to some sort of dot S.
Michael (06:32):
I never knew the order of the numbers, but I knew all the numbers.
Jimmy (06:43):
October 8th.
Wow.
This is a six-panel daily strip.
We have Sally and her new friend, the little kid.
What is his name again?
Did anyone remember?
Harold (06:53):
Cormac.
Jimmy (06:55):
Yeah, Cormac with his floppy 90s home improvement hair.
So they're standing on the street corner there and Cormac looks away and he looks back at Sally and he looks away and he looks back at Sally and he looks away and he says to her, I plan to grow.
Harold (07:12):
Because he is shorter than Sally.
Jimmy (07:20):
Yes, I see it.
I am really intrigued by his 90s hair.
Michael (07:25):
Without it, it's Charlie Brown.
Jimmy (07:28):
It is Charlie Brown.
Oh, that is really weird, a little miniature rerun Charlie Brown.
Michael (07:37):
He's got a toupee, and he's hitting on his sister.
Jimmy (07:40):
He's got a toupee.
Oh, that would be a fun strip.
Charlie Brown tries to turn things around, but joined in the hair club for nine-year-olds.
Harold (07:51):
Yeah.
I don't know what it is about Cormac, but he does feel 90s to me.
He seems to have this easy confidence in himself.
He's not questioning a lot of things.
Yeah, he just seems to take life in stride, which is a little unusual for characters in peanuts.
(08:13):
It's interesting to see him step into this world and just sail through it.
Jimmy (08:18):
Yeah.
Liz (08:20):
It does remind me of the coming back to 10th grade after I was six inches taller than all of the boys in ninth grade, and then come back in September and they have started to grow.
Harold (08:36):
Oh, wow.
How did that feel?
Liz (08:39):
Like the way things should be.
Harold (08:41):
Right.
Jimmy (08:44):
October 9th, 1992, Cormac and Sally are hanging out in classrooms.
Cormac's behind her in class, and he says, I'm shorter than you now, but someday I'll be taller than you.
Cormac continues, I'll be real tall and you'll have to look straight up to see my eyes.
And then Sally says, if a person has a nice smile, Cormac, nothing else matters.
(09:08):
To which Cormac replies, I'll have a nice smile and very tall teeth.
I'm heavily into this hairdo of Cormac.
Yeah.
Like it is wild.
I think he has a lot of confidence.
But now that I see Charlie Brown's head underneath it, I'm really confused.
Harold (09:32):
So what do you think of Sally's response?
You're talking about Sally's nihilist.
She's got a pretty nice observation here.
Michael (09:41):
It is a nice observation, but totally out of character.
Liz (09:44):
You think?
Well, wasn't Cormac hitting on Marcie?
Michael (09:49):
He's a player.
Jimmy (09:50):
If you had that look, come on, he's not a one woman man.
Look it, he's got that quaff going.
Harold (09:57):
He's playing the field here.
Jimmy (10:01):
It's actually kind of very early 90s because it's not quite moose.
It's just large and unwieldy.
I'm jealous of Cormac if I have to say so.
Harold (10:15):
Yeah, I'm enjoying him as kind of slipping into the strip here.
Again, another surprise for me, I had not seen him before as a character, not having read this era of Peanuts.
I like the fact that it feels like Peanuts is in the 90s thanks to him.
Jimmy (10:31):
Yeah.
Michael (10:32):
Well, you think he continues after this little bunch of strips?
Harold (10:38):
Well, I don't think he's going to continue past the 90s.
That's my theory.
Michael (10:41):
No, no, that's a good theory.
But not knowing what's coming, is he become a regular?
Jimmy (10:48):
I don't remember much about good old Cormac.
He might show up now and again, but I think for the most part, the next character that I remember that becomes a really big part of the strip is Rira and his little friend in class.
Harold (11:02):
You know what I'd like to see?
I'd like to see some interaction between Cormac and Lydia, because he's not too old for her.
Jimmy (11:09):
That's right.
Michael (11:10):
Well, he's too short.
Harold (11:14):
He has a nice smile.
Jimmy (11:16):
The use of Zip-A-Tone on his jacket gives me 90s feel too.
Now, is that jangly Zip-A-Tone?
Harold (11:25):
Right?
Jimmy (11:26):
Because it sort of doesn't come to the edge, and it has little white spots.
Harold (11:30):
Yeah, that's approachable Zip-A-Tone.
Jimmy (11:32):
That's approachable Zip-A-Tone.
October 10th.
Cormac is visiting Charlie Brown's house, and the World War I flying ace has answered the door.
And he says, Hi, is this the residence of Sally Brown?
Will you give her this love note?
And he hands a little love note to the World War I flying ace.
And then the World War I flying ace grabs it and shoves it in his mouth, saying, sensing this could be a secret military message, the World War I flying ace quickly swallows it.
(12:03):
And then he slam goes back inside the house, leaving Cormac out there to say, Hey, what kind of place is this?
Harold (12:12):
That's right, Cormac.
What kind of place is this?
We've been trying to figure this out for four years.
Jimmy (12:20):
Yeah, I love it when some other poor sucker has to deal with the World War I flying ace or something.
Yeah, it's really great.
Harold (12:28):
And his hair looks even more unruly when he's watching Snoopy eat his message.
Jimmy (12:34):
Yeah, just a little light fluff in the lioness department, like it's shooting out in all directions.
Harold (12:40):
I mean, that's kind of a weird thing about his hair is, particularly in this shot, you see the outline of the head up until where the hair begins.
And then it's just kind of this open field of tumbleweed out the back.
Jimmy (12:54):
Yeah.
Harold (12:56):
It's like he's blowing his mind.
Jimmy (12:58):
I think it's definitely a piece, I think.
That's why we're seeing that a little.
All right.
There's a little difference between the top and the bottom there.
So yeah, no, it really does look like the back of his head's gone.
Yeah.
And that the second one and it really looks like Charlie Brown too.
I mean, he must have been able to feel that he was drawing Charlie Brown's face.
(13:19):
Right.
Michael (13:20):
I mean, I'm surprised with his cartooning skills, that he doesn't do much with features like Doonesbury has this long Pinocchio nose.
Schulz doesn't seem to do that.
They all seem to be variations on his standard face design.
Jimmy (13:41):
Yeah.
I mean, it has something, I think, to do with just the simplicity of the style, that he doesn't draw real character-looking type people, or there's nothing that's ever done that makes someone, or very rarely is someone drawn to look funny, like within the world, like no one would say.
Michael (14:02):
Yeah.
Who was that girl who Linus was in love with way back when?
She was funny looking.
Liz (14:08):
Truffles?
Michael (14:09):
Truffles.
Jimmy (14:10):
Truffles.
Harold (14:13):
Yeah, that was a switch.
Jimmy (14:15):
I liked truffles.
But yeah, he rarely, rarely does that.
November 8th, it's a Sunday, and Charlie Brown and Sally are sitting at a table eating some plates of food, and they're both laughing their heads off.
And the next panel, Charlie Brown's at the psychiatric booth because, of course, and he says to Lucy, it's a little hard to explain.
(14:40):
I like to laugh.
And then Lucy says to him, what's wrong with that?
And then he continues talking, saying, sometimes my sister and I tell jokes while we're eating, but if grandma's around, she kind of doesn't like it.
She always says, laugh before supper, cry before bed.
Lucy's taking this all in, and Charlie Brown asks, what do you think I should do?
(15:01):
To which Lucy replies, don't eat supper, send out for pizza.
Michael (15:06):
Kind of gold lady advice is that.
I've never heard that.
Harold (15:09):
Now, can you imagine growing up in Minnesota?
I mean, I think of like the Garrison Keillor world of older adults, that really would kind of put a damper on things, if that was the wisdom being passed on by your elders.
Jimmy (15:28):
Well, you know, I mean, what were their, what would be like Charles Schulz's grandmother's like funny stories?
Like that one time they shared a bean?
Like, you know, they probably weren't yucking it up.
The, the Nordic folk in the prairies of the Midwest.
Harold (15:46):
You get a sense of people who had endured a lot of hardship and you don't get your hopes up too much about things or it's going to tear you down.
I mean, and there is that Stoic kind of feel to, to some of the culture up there.
Jimmy (16:03):
Oh yeah.
Well, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
Cause it's not even like, cause I, all right.
Laugh before supper could be like, hey, if you goof around while you're working, right?
Before supper or whatever, but then you could say, well, things will be bad the next day cause you'll have more work to do or, but you'll cry before dinner or whatever, before bed rather, you know, I mean, yeah, it will turn tragic at the end of the day.
Harold (16:26):
Yeah.
Jimmy (16:27):
Well, I like Lucy's advice.
Send out for pizza.
That's always good advice.
You can't go wrong with a pizza.
Harold (16:32):
Oh, but pizza is supper.
Jimmy (16:35):
Well, yeah, but maybe he say, maybe she's saying don't eat supper with the family.
Harold (16:40):
With the family.
Yeah, right.
Jimmy (16:41):
Yeah.
You and Sally go have a pizza someplace.
Harold (16:44):
Yeah.
Laugh over some pepperoni and you'll avoid the misery.
Jimmy (16:51):
Yeah, I do think it's interesting when Schulz pulls out some of that stuff that might be from the deep dark past of the adults around him when he was a kid.
There's not that much.
Harold (17:06):
No, and given that we know that Schulz did have this propensity to love silliness.
Yeah.
That would have really been looked down upon in parts of the culture he grew up in.
He always seems to restrain himself a little, but that's the sense you get.
(17:26):
There is something in this strip that is often restrained.
Even though we go to these flights of fancy, there is a sense of restraint in it, which in some way seems to give some of the craziest, goofiest stuff a dignity that I think it's a wonderful combination.
(17:47):
And it's like, for me, it builds a respect for the characters and the strip and the creator.
There's a dignity in all of the insanity that he's doing with Snoopy and everything that gives it a weight that you wouldn't normally see in a strip that would be so wildly creative.
(18:09):
I mean, I think of Bloom County, there's this off-handed nature to it where it's almost discounting itself.
If you know what I mean.
Jimmy (18:18):
Yeah.
Harold (18:18):
And Schulz is not letting go of this sense of dignity in the characters, even though they might be doing some of the goofiest things.
And I think that's part of the success of the strip.
Well, all right.
Jimmy (18:34):
So here's a thought.
Especially, maybe less so today because of the Internet.
But certainly, during Schulz's heyday, when we were starting out, all that sort of stuff, were you guys, when you're thinking about, you're doing this comic, even if you weren't necessarily thinking of, my least favorite phrase, the target audience, I think you would be thinking about the people that you knew around you as possible readers.
(19:04):
At least I was, right?
I knew I was going to have to sell my first comic when I was 15 in Gerardville.
That was the only place to sell it.
So I sort of had to talk in their language.
Even if you're making fun of it in some level, which I really wasn't in those early years ago, but you still have to, if you're parroting it or whatever, you still have to sort of talk in the language of the people that are around you.
(19:27):
I don't think that happens now as much because people think of the internet as their first and possibly only audience.
Harold (19:36):
Well, I mean, that is doing what you're saying.
It's just you're expecting an internet type of audience, which is, I mean, there's a lot of things you can put on to that, that, you know, it's judgmental, it's fickle, it likes to laugh, it likes things that are trivial.
And so you see a lot of people, and I don't know if it's because they're consciously making it for that audience or if that's just where they're coming from, and the ones that seem to be in line with the tone of where the people on the internet are, that those are the ones who are successful.
(20:11):
But I guess I'm sure there are people who are calibrating what they do and they see what people respond to.
I mean, that's the amazing thing about the internet is you'll instantly get some feedback as to which thing made the greatest impact, and then you double down on that if that's what you're after, is that audience.
Jimmy (20:26):
And that ultimately, you would think, though, that that, well, I mean, that does, you know, make everything, it washes it out, makes it a little bit bland, right?
I mean, that everything sort of has to follow the internet's village, the internet village's taste.
Well, Michael, when you were starting out Strange Attractors, you and Mark, hey, by the way, how's that going, working on that series after all this time?
Michael (20:51):
Yeah, I had a little problem with the old Apple Pencil, which renders me absolutely useless.
Jimmy (20:58):
Oh, no.
Michael (20:59):
Because I ordered a new one and I got it, and apparently, it doesn't work on my old one.
Jimmy (21:08):
Oh, you got to get the Apple Pencil too.
Michael (21:10):
Yeah.
So basically, I've been at a commission for, like, two weeks.
Jimmy (21:13):
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Well, thinking back to your original start, you were at a pretty close-knit group of people that were into this type of thing, right?
Your D&D group were playing together for years.
Was that group of friends, were you thinking about them when you wrote it?
Michael (21:30):
No, not really.
I mean, I was collaborating with Mark, who was part of that group.
But no, I mean, you and I had the same, pretty much same experience because our audience was the other folks doing black and white self-published comics.
Jimmy (21:48):
Yeah.
Michael (21:48):
Yeah.
Either the artists all bought the comics from their friends, or there was a small group who only liked this weird little offshoot of independent comics.
Yeah.
So I wasn't looking for a bigger audience because I knew that was impossible.
But I thought, for me, the jackpot was somebody you respect liking your stuff.
(22:17):
I mean, that was all I was hoping for.
Jimmy (22:21):
You certainly got that.
Michael (22:22):
That and breaking even.
Yeah.
Jimmy (22:24):
Breaking even.
Oh yeah.
That's really all you need, those two things in your mind.
Yeah.
I feel like in my comic, my Dumbest Ideas book, I did the story where I was going to do a fantasy story in Star-Lord, and then my friend told me not to because it's a bad idea.
That really would have ended it for me.
(22:45):
I got so much validation from my friends and from the local news media and the stores let me put the book in.
Because it was about them.
If I would have said, here's Star-Lord about this guy with mental powers on a different planet, they would have been like, they wouldn't even have recognized it as something that they should encourage with me, I don't think.
Harold (23:07):
Wow, that's really interesting.
And on this theme of the nature of art where there's something in it that there's a gravitas to it or there's a respect for the characters.
It doesn't feel entirely frivolous.
That's definitely in both of your guys' work.
(23:28):
I mean, I see that you give your characters real respect.
And I think that's something that it works incredibly well if you can do it well.
And in the fact, Jimmy, that you were doing stuff that was tied into a space and a life that you were living at the time.
(23:53):
Yeah, that can be super powerful.
Yeah, I'm just mulling all this over as we're talking, but there's something really special about that type of art.
And, you know, there's a lot of art where you feel like the characters are almost puppets or...
Jimmy (24:11):
Yeah...
Harold (24:12):
.
strong men, for lack of a better term.
And they're being manipulated around so that someone can have some fun, you know?
Jimmy (24:19):
Yeah, or not have fun.
Because sometimes it doesn't even feel like they're having fun, the creators, you know?
Harold (24:24):
Yeah, or they're venting on something, or they're just being...
Or they are just being, like, completely frivolous.
Right.
I guess, yeah, I get...
I'm just...
it's just dawning on me that I really...
I'm fascinated by the stuff that can be light, but also have some dignity and respect for the characters.
That's a really powerful, wonderful combination.
Jimmy (24:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Schulz certainly is a master of that, because you can tell that he loves these characters, even the ones that are...
even the Cormacs of the world, you know?
They're all unique and special.
How about we take a break, come back, read the mail, and hit some more strips?
Harold (25:08):
Sure.
That's great.
Liz (25:10):
Hi, everyone.
You've heard us rave about the Estabrook Radio 914, and one episode would be complete without mention of the Fab Four.
Now you can wear our obsessions proudly with Unpacking Peanuts t-shirts.
We have a Be of Good Cheer pen nib design, along with the four of us crossing Abbey Road, and of course, Michael, Jimmy, and Harold at the thinking wall.
(25:34):
Collect them all, trade them with your friends.
Order your t-shirts today at unpackingpeanuts.com/store.
Jimmy (25:43):
And we're back.
All right, Liz, I'm hanging out in the mailbox.
Do we got anything?
Liz (25:47):
We do.
We got a couple of things.
First, from super listener John Marullo, who writes, Hey everyone, there was a rhetorical question asked when trying to account for the popularity of Blondie among teenagers in 1992.
How many Blondie TV series were there?
It was actually attempted three times.
(26:09):
The teens of 92 may have seen the 1987 animated special, Blondie and Dagwood, which featured Loni Anderson as the voice of Blondie.
There were two live action series much earlier, neither of which saw a second season.
The first aired in 57 and featured Arthur Lake reprising his role as Dagwood from the Penny Singleton movies.
(26:34):
Pamela Britton, who was Lorelai Brown in My Favorite Martian, played Blondie.
It was tried again in 1968.
The supporting cast is more notable.
Mr.
Dithers was played by the wonderful Jim Backus.
Of interest to listeners of this podcast, playing Alexander and Cookie, were Peter Robbins and Pamela Ferdin, who voiced Charlie Brown and Lucy respectively in animation.
(27:00):
This version lasted only 13 episodes and is considered a dismal failure, and clips of it are very hard to find.
He concludes with, a more reasonable explanation for Blondie's popularity may be that, like Peanuts, it was often featured on the front page of Sunday Comics sections.
Thank you again for the best podcast in the known universe.
Michael (27:25):
Oh, I have an alternate explanation.
Liz (27:28):
What's that?
Michael (27:29):
Maybe it was good.
I don't remember.
I read it.
Jimmy (27:34):
Yeah.
Well, it was a good-looking strip.
Who was doing it by that?
Was it Stan Drake drawing?
Michael (27:40):
Oh.
Jimmy (27:41):
Eventually, Stan-
Michael (27:42):
Was it in Cherk?
Jimmy (27:43):
No, not by the eighties.
Harold (27:45):
Not by that, but let's see.
Was there a son who worked on it?
There was a second Young?
Yeah.
Was it Drake and Young?
Jimmy (27:56):
Yeah, Stan Drake.
Harold (27:56):
Was it Stan Drake and Young?
Jimmy (27:58):
Yeah, Stan Drake, who is a famous photo-realist, cartoonist who did The Heart of Juliet Jones, which has the most beautiful realistic drawing like in the world.
I mean, it's just so gorgeous.
And then he went and did Blondie, and it's a completely different style, and he nails that too.
Harold (28:16):
Yeah, it was a good-looking strip.
It was really professionally done, and I remember my newspaper had Blondie at the top.
And Peanuts at the bottom on the front page.
It was very highly regarded and was very prominent in those Sunday sections.
(28:37):
And yeah, it was suburban life, and I don't think it seemed out of line with, say, my experiences as a kid.
And yeah, and I occasionally would get the Blondie comic book, which ran from, I think, probably the 40s into at least the 70s.
(28:57):
And then those Penny Singleton movies, like you were saying, Jimmy, you were watching them.
That was a staple on TV stations on Sunday, around noon.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it was like the Shirley Temple movies and the Blondie movies and the Bowery Boys movies.
If you were in a certain area, they would often rotate those films because there were so many in the series, and they would just be playing every single weekend.
(29:20):
And even though they were so old, millions of people saw those.
Jimmy (29:24):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Watch them with my Nana.
You know, a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that Shout Factory has YouTube channels for like so many of their properties.
I was watching The Prisoner, that BBC show recently on it.
And it's fun watching, even they're live, they're just streamed, you and 15 other people watching them.
But they had a really old movie series on there that I don't think people even realize is how much of an influence on Amelia it was.
(29:52):
That I didn't even think about it really in 30 years, but the little rascals.
And I mean, now times have changed in many ways.
So you're gonna run into things that are not acceptable to modern sensibilities.
But boy, were they funny.
I mean, they were inventive.
They did like really clever things with split screens and puppetry, all kinds of stuff.
(30:16):
Really, really funny.
Harold (30:17):
They have their own strange pacing.
You know, a lot of the stuff, the Hal Roach films, they have this long gaps of silence between lines and stuff, while you have that wonderful music, that library music that they wrote for themselves.
And it's just like, you're like in this dream world when you're watching them.
And it's, it's wow.
Jimmy (30:38):
Yeah, very much.
Harold (30:40):
But yeah, I agree.
Blondie is a, was a very well done strip.
It was super professionally done.
And the characters, definitely Dagwood is a very strong character.
And I love looking at the dogs.
Jimmy (30:54):
A lot of people probably don't remember.
They started, Blondie was a flapper.
And the thing was, Dagwood was then the heir to a millionaire's fortune, and he was going to lose his money if he married Blondie.
But he did.
And then this strip just became an entirely different strip over time.
Harold (31:16):
Yeah.
And this is one example.
They say never marry characters in a strip if they weren't, and they started and Blondie is a great exception to that rule.
Michael (31:24):
Yeah.
Jimmy (31:26):
All right.
Do we got anything else?
Liz (31:27):
We do.
We got an email from Rochelle, who writes, I've been listening to the podcast for a couple of months now, I'm really enjoying it.
But today I realized as everyone was being introduced, everyone gets a nice long introduction, except Liz.
Jimmy (31:44):
That's true.
Liz (31:46):
Can we hear a little bit about Liz too, even if it's not comic related?
Jimmy (31:50):
All right.
Liz (31:51):
Such an important part of the podcast, and I don't like her being left out.
Jimmy (31:56):
Thanks for pointing that out to us.
I think you're 100% right.
I am happy to do right now a little impromptu interview.
So, Liz.
Liz (32:05):
Well, wait a second.
I took the opportunity to write one for you.
Jimmy (32:10):
That's fantastic.
Lay it on us.
Liz (32:14):
She's a singer and an audio engineer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast.
Jimmy (32:20):
Perfect.
Liz (32:22):
She's a former productivity coach and creator of the never published comic Hippi, the Mad Mod Fashion Fanatic.
It's Liz Sumner.
Jimmy (32:31):
Wait, I just learned something.
First off, we will use that now.
But secondly, what is Hippi?
Liz (32:39):
When I was in seventh grade, I had a crush on a guy named Jeff Stryker.
Jimmy (32:46):
Wait, what was his name?
Liz (32:48):
Jeff Stryker.
Jimmy (32:49):
It was not Jeff Stryker.
Are you kidding me?
Like, oh my God, he's like a helicopter pilot in an unpicked up 80s action pilot.
Liz (32:59):
Actually, he was an NPR commentator or an NPR producer, and was on the air for a long time.
Anyhow, but I wrote this comic of Hippi and her pals, Modi and Go Go, and it was a complete ripoff of Millie the model.
Jimmy (33:15):
Perfect.
Liz (33:17):
I had something like eight or ten different issues of it.
Jimmy (33:22):
Oh my God.
Liz (33:24):
It was more a story rather.
I had horrible stick figure drawings, and Michael thinks it would, well, you give your opinion.
Michael (33:35):
I don't know if it qualifies as an actual comic, but it was definitely a zine.
Harold (33:40):
Oh, all right.
Michael (33:42):
Cool.
Liz (33:42):
But Jef was Jaguar Jef, and he was in the band called The Castaways with his drummer, Alex.
It was another one of my classmates.
I was very fond of Hippi.
Jimmy (33:58):
That's amazing.
Well, we need to kickstart a revival.
That's fantastic.
Thank you for writing in and asking this, because as we pointed out in the past, but it cannot be pointed out too often, we would not have a podcast without Liz at all.
Like none.
We wouldn't have a bad podcast.
(34:19):
We would have no podcast.
We would have four Lost episodes that, they're much like if you've seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, and they take the top off the arc and everyone's face melts.
If you heard those episodes, that's what would happen to you.
That's why I hid them from you.
We're very grateful to have Liz.
Harold (34:38):
Definitely.
Liz (34:39):
That's it for the mail.
Oh, except.
Jimmy (34:41):
We got a package from good old Sarah Wilson.
Now, I put out the call if anybody had access to any kind of Olaf merch to get in touch with us, and she won because she figured out how to do it without me sending anything to Japan.
If you want to know one thing about me that's not in the introduction, I'm super lazy.
(35:07):
Oh, and having to go to the, actually, I'm going to ask Michael about this, having to get me to go to the post office is a near impossibility.
But Sarah somehow figured it out, and so we got a package from her today, and I'm going to open it live on air, right?
Liz (35:23):
That was her request.
Jimmy (35:24):
All right.
Okay.
So here we go.
Let's open this up.
Harold (35:26):
Our first unboxing podcast.
Jimmy (35:29):
I hope you can hear that.
Hold on.
You're going to get a good sound effect.
All right.
Liz (35:37):
Careful with that box cutter.
Jimmy (35:39):
Oh, that was raw.
Liz (35:39):
You need your fingers.
Jimmy (35:40):
That was just my raw hands, bare hands.
Harold (35:43):
Wow.
Jimmy (35:44):
All right.
We have an Olaf shirt.
Harold (35:49):
No.
Jimmy (35:50):
Peanuts Japan, Olaf with the wave, the famous wave behind him in a kimono.
It is amazing.
I love it.
Liz (36:02):
You have to take pictures so we can share them.
Jimmy (36:07):
And a copy of her book, Protons and Fleurons.
Michael (36:11):
Oh, boy.
Harold (36:12):
So cool.
Jimmy (36:13):
Twenty-Two Elements of Fiction, a hardcover edition.
Oh, and hang on.
We got a little card in there.
Oh, very cute little card with a snail on it.
From your friend, fan, and Fleuron fancier in Japan, with great appreciation for Unpacking Peanuts, Sarah.
Oh, thank you, Sarah.
I can't.
And this is her book, which is...
(36:33):
So if you want to check it out, it is Protons and Fleurons, F-L-E-U-R-O-N-S, by Sarah Hinlicky Wilson.
Liz (36:40):
I think it's Doctor Sarah Hinlicky.
Jimmy (36:42):
Doctor.
Well, you buried the lead there, Sarah.
It's not on your cover.
That's very cool, though.
Oh, thank you so much.
And Olaf's absolutely adorable.
We'll send a picture via social media or wherever Liz will put it up, but yes.
Liz (36:56):
And I'll ask Sarah for a link to so people can take a look at her book.
Jimmy (37:00):
Yeah.
Yeah, please.
Please do.
I'm going to read it.
I'm going to start reading it tonight.
Twenty-Two Elements of Fiction.
Oh, it's like a little short story collection.
Oh, and they're all based on elements.
Huh.
That's really cool.
All right.
Very cool.
Thank you, Sarah.
So if you want to get in touch with us, well, there's a couple of ways you could do it.
(37:21):
The first thing we'd love for you to do is go over to our website, unpackingpeanuts.com, and there you can sign up for the great Peanuts reread.
That'll get you one email a month from us, letting you know to the best of our ability what we're going to be covering on upcoming episodes of the podcast.
You can also just send us an email, UnpackingPeanuts at gmail.com, and you can follow us on social media, but I'll give you that rundown at the end.
(37:47):
So, oh, and as always, we don't have anything this week, but you can leave a voicemail or just send a text message to 717-219-4162.
That's the Unpacking Peanuts hotline.
And we'd love to hear from you because when I don't hear, I worry.
All right, guys.
So how about we go back to the strips?
Harold (38:06):
Sure.
Jimmy (38:07):
All right.
We've got a pretty dark Sunday here coming up, November 22nd.
And we start off with a little symbolic panel where we see Woodstock as a turkey with his tail feathers fully on display.
But Woodstock's stoic expression unchanged.
And now we cut to Snoopy, who's telling the old Bible story.
(38:28):
So Isaac was saved and he's telling this to Woodstock.
And then he says to Woodstock, then guess what happened?
Abraham turned around and saw this poor ram that had his horn caught in a thicket.
Did he set it free?
Of course not.
He offered it up as a burnt offering.
Can you imagine that?
He killed it.
This is freaking Woodstock out.
(38:48):
And then Charlie Brown comes in and says, Hey Snoopy, we're invited over to grandma's house for Thanksgiving dinner.
And then Snoopy says to Woodstock, And you know what they're going to eat?
Harold (38:57):
A bird.
Jimmy (38:58):
And then they, Snoopy and Woodstock both turn to Charlie Brown and go blah.
And then Charlie Brown heads back to the house where Sally greets him and he says, He's not coming along.
And then Charlie Brown says, Don't ask me why.
I never know what he's thinking.
Michael (39:13):
So doesn't Snoopy realize what's in his dinner?
Jimmy (39:16):
That's what I just wanted to ask.
That's exactly my question.
What do you think's in your dog food, Snoopy?
Ignorance is bliss.
Look, this is one of two weird things that happen at the end of holiday specials.
At the end of Charlie Brown Thanksgiving, Woodstock definitely eats the turkey, which is really creepy.
(39:39):
Yeah.
And also, of course, the famous murder at the end of Rudolph.
Those are the two darkest moments in holiday specials.
Yeah, so that's really all I had to say about that, is I wanted to know what Snoopy thought he was eating.
Do you think he doesn't know?
I guess, well, how would he know?
He doesn't want to know?
Harold (39:59):
He doesn't want to know.
Jimmy (40:00):
Very strange, very strange.
I love Woodstock in this.
I love how he looks nervous with the most minor edition of parentheses and like some swept, what do you call them?
Drops, that's the word.
Harold (40:13):
Yeah, what's the Mort Walker name for this?
Jimmy (40:15):
Dulaps, right?
Harold (40:16):
He made up all the names.
Jimmy (40:17):
Yeah.
Do you think when he named all those things, he thought, yeah, these are gonna catch on?
Harold (40:22):
I think he was trying, he had a pretty good success with get people using it.
I saw it.
I've seen it pop up in news articles and stuff years later.
Jimmy (40:30):
You know, it is.
Liz (40:30):
I put it in the obscurity.
Harold (40:31):
Was it Brolics?
Jimmy (40:32):
There you go.
Well, then you've made, man, if you make it to the peanuts and obscurities.
But you know, like, it is one of the problems with comics.
There's not much of, you know, I mean, there's not really that much comics theory.
You have understanding comics.
So you don't, when you don't have comics theory, you don't have a lot of terms.
(40:54):
It's hard to express some things about comics.
Michael (40:57):
Do you constantly run into people who talk about speech bubbles?
Jimmy (41:00):
Oh, God, as opposed to word balloons?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's more common now, which I can't stand.
Michael (41:09):
But you can't correct them because that's too snobby.
Jimmy (41:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michael (41:12):
Right.
Jimmy (41:13):
No one wants to talk to the guy that goes, actually, it's the word balloons.
Well, here's something that's really weird that everybody says, including editors who are much younger than me.
I really like your paneling.
I'm like, thanks.
It's oak.
What are you talking about my paneling?
They mean my layouts, but paneling is what they're calling the arrangement of panels on a comics page.
Harold (41:38):
Oh, I thought that's when you're like on What's My Line.
Jimmy (41:41):
It could be that too.
If you're on What's My Line in my studio with my oak paneling, laying out a comic, then you got all three.
That's the trifecta of paneling.
November 23rd.
Linus is sitting in classic thumb and blanket position when something catches his attention off panel.
(42:01):
So he throws his blanket up in the air, and as it gently floats to the ground, Snoopy comes flashing by trying to snatch it out of Linus' grasp.
But Linus, having been one step ahead of him, has it in the air, and then it gently floats back down, and Linus resumes his thumb and blanket position.
Michael (42:22):
Nice.
Another six-paneler.
Jimmy (42:24):
Yeah.
Harold (42:25):
Yeah.
Michael (42:26):
Yeah, this could have worked as four, but...
Jimmy (42:30):
Yeah.
Michael (42:30):
It didn't hurt to add another couple.
Jimmy (42:33):
Yeah, it could have worked.
You could have done the first one, the third one, the fourth one, and the last one.
Yeah.
Or the fifth and the last, I guess, you know?
Yeah.
It does work, because a lot of times, when you try something like this, it does give the feeling of slow motion, so much as it gives the feeling of the blanket.
(42:57):
Like, the object in motion is actually moving much slower.
But I think because it's a blanket, and it feels light and could drift down, I think this really works well.
Harold (43:09):
I think of Garfield without Garfield, you'd use Snoopy, Peanuts without Snoopy.
Jimmy (43:13):
Yeah, you could definitely just have one.
Harold (43:15):
The non-sequitur strips.
Jimmy (43:19):
It's interesting that he decides to zip-atone the blanket at this stage, because that feels like it's changing the color of the blanket.
December 12th, and it's a panoramic strip.
We got a snowman out there with gloves on and a baseball cap sideways.
Rerun?
Michael (43:38):
I don't know.
I would think so, but how can you tell?
Jimmy (43:42):
Rerun and or Linus are sitting in the snow next to the snowman and says, If a person were lost in a blizzard, how long could he last sucking the juice from a mitten?
Michael (43:55):
What flavor was that?
What were the ingredients?
It's really good, but was I drinking like red dye number three or something?
Maybe.
I would explain a lot.
Harold (44:12):
I remember this just took me back to childhood, and I hadn't thought of this.
But yeah, you would have a mitten, and you would be out in the cold.
I grew up in Rochester, New York until I was 11.
I don't know why, but you would have caked snow on the mitten.
(44:33):
The fibers have captured this.
I don't know why, but I remember the flavor of sucking on the snow from the mitten, but then it's also got all the nastiness that was in the mitten.
Jimmy (44:48):
Yeah, that's seasoning.
Harold (44:49):
But there's a certain flavor to it, right?
Jimmy (44:54):
December 15th, Spike is out in the desert contemplating the holidays, and he says to himself, Christmas is coming, I should start doing my shopping.
Last year, I exchanged gifts with a rock.
I think he liked what I brought him.
And then we see the rock in panel three, and Spike turns to him and says, he's still wearing it.
And we see the rock is wearing the gift Spike got him, which is a little baseball cap.
Harold (45:20):
Spike seems very pleased.
Jimmy (45:21):
Also looks like Charlie Brown's head.
Harold (45:27):
Yeah, so I'm happy to see Spike is finding some joys in his life with the rocks and the cacti.
Jimmy (45:34):
Yeah, I think Spike is making it work out there, you know?
I think a lot of people would crack up, but for whatever reason, Spike is able to hang in there.
Harold (45:43):
Yeah, he finds his happiness where he can.
And speaking of that, why don't we do the Anger and Happiness Index for the year?
Jimmy (45:52):
Let's do it.
Harold (45:55):
Okay, so again, for those of you who are joining us for the first time, I go through the year's strips.
Jimmy (46:01):
First off, you're a little late.
Liz (46:02):
What?
Jimmy (46:04):
If you're joining us for the first time.
Harold (46:07):
Well, yes.
Jimmy (46:08):
You're welcome though.
You're welcome, of course.
Harold (46:10):
Absolutely.
So if you have not heard this before, every year I go through the strips and I count the number of strips that have at least one character showing anger or happiness in the strips.
And then I follow it year by year, trying to see if there are any trends that might give us any clues to where Schulz was in the process of making Peanuts.
(46:33):
And where we are in 1991, we had a shocker where the anger went from 59 strips to 107.
And while happiness held pretty steady, it went from 90 to 89.
So do you think that was just an anomaly that had all these angry strips in 91?
(46:55):
Or do you think that might be a trend that's continuing?
Jimmy (46:58):
No, I think he's going down.
I think he was just having a really grumpy year.
So I think we're going to be closer to that, the previous number.
Harold (47:06):
Which was actually unusually low.
So he has kind of strangely had the two side by side.
Jimmy (47:12):
What do you think, Michael?
Why don't you pick happiness?
I think happiness is up or down.
Michael (47:17):
I think it's holding even.
I think they're both, the numbers are going to be pretty even too.
Harold (47:21):
I do too.
Jimmy (47:22):
That's what I think.
Harold (47:23):
Yeah.
We went from 107.91 for the anger to 87.
So it is back down to a more normal level.
Happiness has been very gradually declining in 89 from 97 to 1990.
There were 90 and 91.
There were 89 and 92.
There are 84.
So that's holding pretty steady, but it was kind of a slow, gradual line.
(47:48):
So yeah, I don't know what happened in 1991 or if it was just pure coincidence that he had this.
There were a lot of different things that created the anger this year coming from a lot of different characters.
It's interesting that he's not all one character.
(48:09):
Lucy definitely is giving some bad vibes out there this year toward Linus and all of that.
But yeah, not quite as crazy as it was last year.
Jimmy (48:22):
All right.
Thank you for that, Harold.
All right.
So that brings us to the end of another fabulous year, a great year in peanuts and pop culture in general, 1992.
So we are going to just I'm going to need from my friends there, MVPs and Strip of the Year.
But before we get there, I just want to once again remind you, we would love to hear from you.
(48:46):
So if you want to drop us an email, unpackingpeanuts at gmail.com, you could call or text the hotline 717-219-4162.
And of course, you can follow us on Instagram and threads where we're at Unpack Peanuts and Facebook, Blue Sky and YouTube where we're at Unpacking Peanuts.
And again, we'd love to hear from you because when I don't hear, I worry.
(49:10):
So with all that said, guys, how about you give me your MVPs and your picks for Strip of the Year.
Michael, why don't you go first?
Michael (49:21):
Okay.
As is traditional, I am picking a Lydia Strip for Strip of the Year.
And she might only had one this year, maybe two.
But anyway, June 7th, where she foolishly asked Linus if he's ever written a love note.
Jimmy (49:43):
Oh, that's a good one.
Michael (49:44):
And it rebounds on her.
And she's humiliated.
Jimmy (49:51):
She finally gets a little of her own medicine there.
Michael (49:54):
Yeah.
And most valuable peanut again, Sally.
I'm enjoying her nihilism or is it nihilism?
Should we settle this once and for all?
Or does it not matter?
Jimmy (50:10):
I always said nihilism.
Michael (50:13):
Okay.
Jimmy (50:13):
But I don't think that's right.
So, sorry, I cannot be of help, I guess.
Michael (50:19):
Okay.
In any case, Sally's the one who makes me laugh.
And so I will keep giving her MVPs as long as she keeps doing that.
Jimmy (50:29):
All right.
Well, Sally is sweeping your polls and your heart.
Harold, how about you?
Harold (50:35):
Well, this is a very personal pick for me.
February 4th.
I really do like this strip.
I had mentioned in part one this year that there was a strip up on the refrigerator of my in-laws depicting Lucy and Linus as my wife Diane and me, where she's being a little hard on Linus early, early at breakfast time and Linus replies at the end of her rant, good morning.
(51:08):
That's just a, it's a great strip and I have fond memories of that being up on the fridge for years.
So we both laughed at that when we saw it.
And for my VIP, I'm going to give it to Cormac.
He's bringing us into the 90s.
It was fun to see him.
I don't know if we'll ever see him again.
(51:28):
So I want to give him a shout out while we can.
Jimmy (51:31):
All right, well, I'm going to agree with Harold there.
I was going to pick good old Cormac anyway, just because he's rocking that 90s hair, which I love.
And for my strip, I'm going to go, you know what, I'm going to go with October 1st, We Live in Interesting Times.
Michael (51:50):
Really?
Jimmy (51:50):
Yeah, I think that'll be a good title for the episode too.
I always like to find something that'd be a good title for the episode.
Michael (51:55):
Okay.
Jimmy (51:56):
And yeah, and that's it.
Okay.
So we did it guys, another year.
Michael (52:01):
Yay.
Jimmy (52:02):
All right.
So you characters out there, come back next week where we'll either be doing another year or something special.
I don't remember what the schedule is, but we'll be here nevertheless.
And we would love for you to be here too.
So until then for Michael, Harold, and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
Michael (52:21):
Yes, be of good cheer.
Liz (52:23):
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, and Harold Buchholz.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
(52:44):
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.
Michael (52:51):
Yay.
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